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Salt Lake Tribune…Deseret News…why no news about Monson or British Court fraud charge  
Posted: 13 March 2014 05:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Life Rocks
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It's got me wondering why, with a charge of criminal fraud and the court appearance drawing nigh that there's no reporting of the news in any of the main Utah papers?
 
Also if people were leaving the Church in droves why is there not more said about it given the importance of the LDS Church in Utah's economy? 
 
Just wondering. 
 
 


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 06:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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First, I don't think people are leaving in droves. It may seem like it because the exmo community is growing, and we're part of it. But as far as the average ward and stake are concerned, there's no mass exodus, just a few people here and there who left because they "wanted to sin." That said, the Tribune (and even the Deseret News, to a much lesser extent) have covered the increase in leave-takers and the growth of an organized exmo community.
 
As for the lawsuit, does anyone really expect the News to do more than they have, which was a dismissal of the suit as anti-Mormon fantasy? Peggy Stack has already said that she felt forced to cover the story once it had been picked up elsewhere, but her initial impression was that it was a fairly frivolous action and certainly not worth possibly antagonizing a good chunk of the Trib's readership.
 
I really don't know what to think of the lawsuit. If anything, I certainly hope it leads to more transparency in the church. I doubt it will.
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Posted: 13 March 2014 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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According to the Infants on Thrones podcast, alleged internal memos from the LDS PR department state the lawsuit story should be smothered at all costs. While I believe any PR department worth its salt would do just that, I remain skeptical of hearsay like this. I also happen to believe fairness dictates we remain cautious until supporting evidence warrants a good look. In reality, I don't think nearly enough people take this case as anything but a joke--and one without a good punchline, at that. The church PR department has undoubtedly been successful at allowing (if they have done nothing else) that sentiment to dominate both the LDS and former LDS narratives. And that shows that whatever decisions they made were correct. 

   


Posted: 13 March 2014 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I find it all amazing that those in a PR department, even if they're all devout members would feel supportive to the leadership if there was a directive from the top to "kill it at all costs."
 
How far does the lack of cognitive dissonance go I wonder.
 
Given the news reports Monsons every move, I'm wondering if any one has seen him at the airport?
 
Which leads to the next question. 
 
Does he take commercial flights or does he have his own private jet...and what's the name of that jet...Mormon 1...
 
If Monson has a car, does he have vanity plates. LDSPREZ   LDSPRFT  ISEEGOD  
 
Just wondering. 
 
 


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Life Rocks:
<snip>
 
Does he take commercial flights or does he have his own private jet...and what's the name of that jet...Mormon 1...
 
If Monson has a car, does he have vanity plates. LDSPREZ   LDSPRFT  ISEEGOD  
 
Just wondering. 
 
 
 
                     
 
                        Looks like he uses an out of state tag. 
 
 
                              Or not?
 
 
 
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Posted: 13 March 2014 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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To be fair, there hasn't been any media coverage anywhere since the summons was issued.  I suspect that's because nothing's happened in terms of the case itself.  No news is generally no news.  
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Posted: 13 March 2014 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom):
To be fair, there hasn't been any media coverage anywhere since the summons was issued.  I suspect that's because nothing's happened in terms of the case itself.  No news is generally no news.  
 
 This. 
 
Though we may actually have some news of some form tomorrow. 


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 09:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Schyzm:
Brad (ZeeZrom):
To be fair, there hasn't been any media coverage anywhere since the summons was issued.  I suspect that's because nothing's happened in terms of the case itself.  No news is generally no news.  
 
 This. 
 
Though we may actually have some news of some form tomorrow. 
 
 At least in the Arizona Republic...  
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Posted: 13 March 2014 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom):
To be fair, there hasn't been any media coverage anywhere since the summons was issued.  I suspect that's because nothing's happened in terms of the case itself.  No news is generally no news.  
 
 There has been coverage (in fact, even one from the SL Tribune, for example):
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10619538/Head-of-Mormon-church-Thomas-Monson-summoned-by-British-magistrates-court-over-Adam-and-Eve-teaching.html
 
http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57500721-219/church-mormon-phillips-lds.html.csp
 
 
That last one will have to serve to slightly revise the original poster's comments.
 
 


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Edmond Dantès:
Brad (ZeeZrom):
To be fair, there hasn't been any media coverage anywhere since the summons was issued.  I suspect that's because nothing's happened in terms of the case itself.  No news is generally no news.  
 
 There has been coverage (in fact, even one from the SL Tribune, for example):
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10619538/Head-of-Mormon-church-Thomas-Monson-summoned-by-British-magistrates-court-over-Adam-and-Eve-teaching.html
 
http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57500721-219/church-mormon-phillips-lds.html.csp
 
 
That last one will have to serve to slightly revise the original poster's comments.
 
 
 
 Sorry, I wasn't very clear.  There was a flurry of news coverage in response to the issuance of the summons in February, including an article in the Trib.  Since then, I haven't seen any  media coverage.
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Posted: 13 March 2014 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Zeezrom, my mistake. 

   


Posted: 13 March 2014 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Edmond Dantès:
Zeezrom, my mistake.
 
 No problem.  Welcome to postmormon.com.  
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Posted: 13 March 2014 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom):
Schyzm:
Brad (ZeeZrom):
To be fair, there hasn't been any media coverage anywhere since the summons was issued.  I suspect that's because nothing's happened in terms of the case itself.  No news is generally no news.  
 
 This. 
 
Though we may actually have some news of some form tomorrow. 
 
 At least in the Arizona Republic...  
 
LOL
 
 
I am going out on a limb and say I think it's possible there has been at least some further investigating of this by a reporter or two and they are just waiting to see what happens tomorrow before publishing.
 
Also, I am sure that it is prudent for not too much to be said from either side about ongoing legal cases, explaining why no new news.
 
Still....Tom's case is so unique in that he was so far "in" with the church when he defected (maybe Alec Baldwin can play Tom in the movie ).  I am sure that it isn't every day the church is taken to court by people who are close to the upper leadership, let alone had the second anointing.  I would think that this in and of itself is newsworthy.
 
SG


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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Edmond Dantès:
According to the Infants on Thrones podcast, alleged internal memos from the LDS PR department state the lawsuit story should be smothered at all costs. While I believe any PR department worth its salt would do just that, I remain skeptical of hearsay like this. I also happen to believe fairness dictates we remain cautious until supporting evidence warrants a good look. In reality, I don't think nearly enough people take this case as anything but a joke--and one without a good punchline, at that. The church PR department has undoubtedly been successful at allowing (if they have done nothing else) that sentiment to dominate both the LDS and former LDS narratives. And that shows that whatever decisions they made were correct.
 
I caught that, too.  Tom said that he actually saw an e-mail from Michael Purdy.
 
I wish at least some news outlet had taken the time to report more in depth about it rather report on it as an oddity.  Did no one think "Why would a respected judge issue a summons for something so laughable?  Maybe there is more to the story....."
 
Or was LDS PR department that effective at squashing it?
 
Or (I hope) did some of them ask themselves that question, investigate further, and will yet publish more about it?
 
In the meantime, I'm glad we at least had the posts online from Tom, Chris Ralph's and Stephen Bloor's comments, and the InfantsOnThrones interviews.
 
SG


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 02:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Maybe they're waiting for "PI" day? (3.14)
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Posted: 13 March 2014 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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tomorrow will be preliminaries, right ? I think I read somewhere that a decision will then be made as to which court will hear the case ? ... can anyone here clarify for me please ? 

   


Posted: 13 March 2014 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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priorvej:
tomorrow will be preliminaries, right ? I think I read somewhere that a decision will then be made as to which court will hear the case ? ... can anyone here clarify for me please ?
 
 I'll try.  In the normal course of this type of case, two things would be on the agenda for tomorrow's hearing:  (1) entry of a plea on behalf of Monson; and (2) a decision as to wehther the District Judge will retain jurisdiction over the case or transfer it to the Crown Court.  Monson is not required to personally attend; he can appear through counsel.
 
We do not know whether Monson has filed any sort of motion with respect to the case that might be addressed tomorrow.  
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Posted: 13 March 2014 03:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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priorvej:
tomorrow will be preliminaries, right ? I think I read somewhere that a decision will then be made as to which court will hear the case ? ... can anyone here clarify for me please ?
 
There is a really good write up about it from Steve Benson posted as a sticky at the top of the Recovery From Mormonism (exmormon.org) board.  Tom Phillips spoke to Steve about it extensively.  He explains there what exactly it is that could happen tomorrow.
 
You are right that it is a sort of preliminary....not the actual trial starting.
 
Hope that helps.
 
SG
 
Edit to add:  Here is a direct link to the PDF of Steve's write up:
 
Details of Criminal Fraud Case
 
Ok, editing again, sorry   While I think the write up I linked to is very informative, it was probably more than you were looking for and didn't list a straightforward explanation of what exactly it is that will happen *tomorrow*.  In the meantime, I see that Brad also posted, and gave a simple and correct answer.  I will stop posting now 


   


Posted: 13 March 2014 03:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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thank you so much ... will go back and check it out smile 

   


Posted: 14 March 2014 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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It is 9:30am in London now.... so anyone attending the hearing would be in the building... it starts at 10:00.... ohhhh to be a mouse in the corner of the room cheese 

   


Posted: 14 March 2014 04:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
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The Ex-Mormon Forums has a member, by the name of Lilly who is attending in the public gallery. I expect her to post in soon as to what has occurred in the courtroom.   

   


Posted: 14 March 2014 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
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former victim:
The Ex-Mormon Forums has a member, by the name of Lilly who is attending in the public gallery. I expect her to post in soon as to what has occurred in the courtroom.  
 
 Isn't there some additional Facebook activity goings on too, she reported?  Oooo...
 
 
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Posted: 14 March 2014 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
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Of Course! Our Internet, is once again, handling this.....getting the job done in our absence. Yet another reason for ole' Joe to roll over in his grave, eh? 

   


Posted: 14 March 2014 04:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]   

   
 
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former victim:
Of Course! Our Internet, is once again, handling this.....getting the job done in our absence. Yet another reason for ole' Joe to roll over in his grave, eh?                                                  
 
Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and now Thomas Monson are all facing dying a thousand deaths!  Ughh, how miserable?
 
Lilly has been good on outlining some of the juicy details, any video out yet on this thing?
 
 
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Posted: 14 March 2014 07:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]   

   
 
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Life Rocks:
It's got me wondering why, with a charge of criminal fraud and the court appearance drawing nigh that there's no reporting of the news in any of the main Utah papers?
 
--snip--
 
 
 Just standard PR engineering: ignore any unpleasant news for as long as possible, especially when the outcome is heretofore unpredictable: maybe it will all blow over.
 
If the story eventually develops "legs", then the LDS PR machinery can kick into high gear and play the "religious freedom", or "religious persecution" cards.
 
 
It's still early days ... 


   


            
 
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Posted: 10 March 2014 05:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Curious NeverMo
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I wonder if this survey of casual atheistis who choose church as part of their lives would be useful to anyone here.  
 
I must say that it took me a very long time to get over my angry-at-churches phase and I took it as a genuine indicator of sucess when I, one day, noticed it didn't bother me to go to church events like weddings and funerals.  It's also possible that remaining part of some fellowship community may help some while they're vulnerable in their effort to transition away.   


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
finex
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Not me. I can't imagine that happening any time soon either. I wouldn't feel honest about myself giving silent consent to all those believers with their faith in the magic father figure in the sky. Sure I'll let them believe in anything they like, but they shouldn't accept me to join in nor giving acceptance for anything of the sort. 

   


Posted: 10 March 2014 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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I could see a non-theist belonging to a social group that called itself a church...  All those PTA/PTO meetings I went to when the kids were elementary and middle school started out with the pledge of allegiance and it didn't disturb me in the least to utter the "..., under ghawd, ..." portion.  I remember once thinking that if you bent your mind just so, those two words were a reference to Hugh Hefner...  "...one nation, udder ghawd, indivisible..."  "Undeg ghawd" was just as silly as "...with liberty and justice for all..."
 
Although I will admit that an atheist hanging out in church is right up there with a non-drinker hanging out with Norm and the gang at Cheers. 


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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This is all well and good for a community church, but it would never work in the mormon church. If you are there, you are assumed to be "all in" and even if you don't want to go home teaching/visiting teaching, they'll assign a route to you and your own monthly assigned teachers. If you don't want a teaching calling, they'll put you in charge of cub scouts. And if they see a flash of compliance out of you, the missionaries will be sent to your door. Someone will be assigned to offer your kids a ride to the next activity. Then someone will call you up on Friday night and remind you that the next morning you are assigned to scrape other peoples' shit off the toilets.
 
No thank you! 
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
apostate (FKA) strangite
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Lots of atheists in the Unitarian-Universalist church. It is a fellowship built on social welfare and service. No one cares if you believe in a god, wasting time is the biggest sin :+).
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“I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be”


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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Matter Unorganized:
This is all well and good for a community church, but it would never work in the mormon church. If you are there, you are assumed to be "all in" and even if you don't want to go home teaching/visiting teaching, they'll assign a route to you and your own monthly assigned teachers. If you don't want a teaching calling, they'll put you in charge of cub scouts. And if they see a flash of compliance out of you, the missionaries will be sent to your door. Someone will be assigned to offer your kids a ride to the next activity. Then someone will call you up on Friday night and remind you that the next morning you are assigned to scrape other peoples' shit off the toilets.
 
No thank you! 
 
A few weeks back I started contemplating that no matter what my beliefs are, I will never escape Mormonism.  To even make an attempt would require for me to leave everyone and everything behind, change my identity and start over a completely new life.
 
I have spent a lot of time listening to pod casts of "Mormon Stories" trying to understand the concept of a "New Order Mormon"---whether I like it or not I suppose I could be labled an "New Order Mormon".  My name remains on the records of TSCC, I attend many of the social events (so I can be with my family).  I am attending SM about once per month (I do not participate in the sacrament or sustainings---which embarrases DW), I have been to 1 or 2 GD or PHM in about two years now.
 
From a religious context, I consider myself "Atheist", but the reality is, this is a major over simplification.  I believe religion created god in man's image.  My beliefs in a higher power are probably more in line with the "Tao". It seems for most theists, their definition for an atheist is, "Someone who does not belive God is required to have a penis". So in that context I am an "Atheist".
 
I made an effort these last couple of weeks to try the NOM thing, and I learned a one thing:  It cannot be done for very long.
 
[ ] MU, I believe you are correct in this statement, but I would expand "all in" to also mean there is no diversity in thought, action, dress or deed.
 
I was at a ward social event this past week, and I tried to engage in conversation with a TBM who is the DH of my DW's good friend.  The only conversation that he could engage, is the we are better then them (anyone outside TSCC), sterotypes of other people and culture.  What really made me crack a smile, was his stereo type that every inactive member drinks alcohol.
 
Could this be true, we have lived in this ward for over a year. His DW and my DW are very good friends, his kids and my kids are great friends, our paths cross several times a week, and he does not realize that I am an "inactive (less) member"
 
LOL 
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 12:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Curious NeverMo
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apostate (FKA) strangite:
Lots of atheists in the Unitarian-Universalist church. It is a fellowship built on social welfare and service. No one cares if you believe in God, wasting time is the biggest sin :+).
 
Quaker congregations welcome athestist too.  
 
The idea isn't to encourage people to stay in Mormon wards if they don't want to or to remain "churched" if they don't want to but to feel like there are ways to cope or avoid feeling like you're jumping over a cliff.   


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Bold Wish
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The only church I'll ever attend . . . and if I ever see one of yooz guyz in there, I'll buy ya a beer or two!
 
http://www.sisterlouisaschurch.com/ 
 
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When I discovered the truth and realized the organization was lying to me, that they had always been lying to me, I felt a sting of betrayal, the humiliation from an organization who profits abundantly by violating trust.  I knew that no matter what would come of it, I could no longer remain associated with the organization in any way.  Since leaving, I’ve enjoyed thinking on my own, guilt is almost a foreign concept, and being in control of my life is incredibly satisfying.


   


Posted: 10 March 2014 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Mayerbabe
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This thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to navigate my "new world" (temple pun) now that my family and I resigned last month. Of all the luck, I live in a suburb in Utah and my city is 83% LDS. I know because I just looked it up. 
 
I'm smack-dab in the middle of raising 6 kids.  To what extent do I allow them to participate in the "secular" activities the church provides?  Of course, my kids are on the church's radar because they've been involved in primary and young men's/young women's up until our rather sudden resignation (no period of inactivity) last month. Just today, 8 year old son went with the scouts to visit the fire station.  If any activities involve the doctrine/rituals/brainwashing of the church however, I'm not allowing my kids anywhere near there. 
 
For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%.  Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out?  I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church. I realize this fear is coming from my 30 years of indoctrination, especially the last 14 years of being a Mormon mother. The entire sentiment, "We're so very blessed to be raising our children in the one true church and without it we would be lost as parents" is an ingrained teaching that does not completely dissipate overnight, even after learning the church is false.  
 
Thanks for listening.   
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“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
― Gloria Steinem


   


Posted: 11 March 2014 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Hitchen's Razor
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Mayerbabe:
"For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%.  Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out?  I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church."
 
 This is certainly a fear that the church tries to instill.  The "world" is painted as a place full of evil and temptation, one step outside of the comfortable arms of the church and the next thing you know, you'll be in a ditch with a needle full of heroin in your arms in their picture.
 
They have a harder time painting that picture outside of the Utah corridor though, where parents and kids can rub shoulders with normal parents and normal kids who are in other churches or non-religious and who live good, ethical lives.  In our area, there were few young couples with new children when ours were born and someone at work recommended a mothers group for my wife.  She joined and met a wonderful group of women who had children the same age.  Two years later most had a second and we had this group of moms, dads and kids going through about the same things in life. We went to parties where alcohol was served, no one got crazy drunk, kids were cared for and people had fun.  All of the kids are growing up learning right and wrong and surprising, or not so surprising, out of all of those families (8 I think), there have been no divorces over the past 14 years, no kids on drugs, etc.
 
What we've learned, and what the church doesn't want you to learn, is that you don't need religion/church to be a good person or to raise good kids. You just have to have a desire to be a good person and teach your kids to be good people.  You do that by setting an example of how you treat others, by doing things as a family, by supporting each other, laughing together, etc.  If you surround yourself with other families trying to do the same and actively work on conveying morals to your kids you're not going to have any lower success rate than people going to church.
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I am not that photo, on my father’s mantle.  I won’t let the dust fall on my life.
-Dala, Good as Gold


   


Posted: 11 March 2014 05:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Mayerbabe:
This thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to navigate my "new world" (temple pun) now that my family and I resigned last month. Of all the luck, I live in a suburb in Utah and my city is 83% LDS. I know because I just looked it up. 
 
I'm smack-dab in the middle of raising 6 kids.  To what extent do I allow them to participate in the "secular" activities the church provides?  Of course, my kids are on the church's radar because they've been involved in primary and young men's/young women's up until our rather sudden resignation (no period of inactivity) last month. Just today, 8 year old son went with the scouts to visit the fire station.  If any activities involve the doctrine/rituals/brainwashing of the church however, I'm not allowing my kids anywhere near there. 
 
For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%.  Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out?  I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church. I realize this fear is coming from my 30 years of indoctrination, especially the last 14 years of being a Mormon mother. The entire sentiment, "We're so very blessed to be raising our children in the one true church and without it we would be lost as parents" is an ingrained teaching that does not completely dissipate overnight, even after learning the church is false.  
 
Thanks for listening.   
 
First, I speak with ZERO experience, having lived all my days outside the morridor. However, I've seen other threads here over the years in which people find non-LDS scout groups, non-LDS activities for their kids, non-LDS groups for parents, etc. Even in the thickest of mormon populations, do a bit of searching and you could well be surprised at what you find. Check with the BSA for a non-LDS scout troop in your area. Find a non-member teacher at the school or maybe the parent of a non-LDS child and ask them what's available. Your area may be 83% LDS, but that means it's 17% non-LDS. That's almost 2 out of every 10 people you will meet.
 
(And may I say, Mayerbabe, that I LOVE your tagline!)
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


            
 
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