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LDS and JW Scripture updates coincide  
Posted: 01 August 2014 02:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Flora4
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Alright I'm probably creating a relationship between two things that are likely completely coincidental. However this coincidence has occurred twice in the past 35 yrs.
 
1981:
   Mormons introduce topical guide and footnotes, noting references between all church scriptures
JW   incorporates their 'Bible Topics for Discussion' into their Bible.
2013:
Mormons update introductions, chapter headings, and footnote references in their scriptures.  Changes including the de-emphasis of Native Americans as THE descendants of Lehi.
JW publishes new edition of their Bible updating introductions and changing footnotes.  One footnote change occludes the concept of celebrating holidays.  (old footnote mentions that Jesus celebrated Hanukah, new footnote reference is jesus celebrated 'winter festival'. Now the text is more in harmony with JW practices and preachings.)  [This footnote change was mentioned by two ex-JW at minute 25:23 of their vlog.  JW dates for changes were found in Wikipedia.]
 
I understand that the morg introduced many changes to the 2013 edition in 2006 in their online versions of the text, but the fact that the hard copy publications of both the JW and the LDS occur at the same time seems suspicious to me.  
 
 Ooo, I got it both churches are true.  Both of their elders were inspired by gawd to make these changes and since gawd thought the change was important they occurred at the same time.


   


Posted: 01 August 2014 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Flora:
Alright I'm probably creating a relationship between two things that are likely completely coincidental. However this coincidence has occurred twice in the past 35 yrs.
 
1981:
   Mormons introduce topical guide and footnotes, noting references between all church scriptures
JW   incorporates their 'Bible Topics for Discussion' into their Bible.
2013:
Mormons update introductions, chapter headings, and footnote references in their scriptures.  Changes including the de-emphasis of Native Americans as THE descendants of Lehi.
JW publishes new edition of their Bible updating introductions and changing footnotes.  One footnote change occludes the concept of celebrating holidays.  (old footnote mentions that Jesus celebrated Hanukah, new footnote reference is jesus celebrated 'winter festival'. Now the text is more in harmony with JW practices and preachings.)  [This footnote change was mentioned by two ex-JW at minute 25:23 of their vlog.  JW dates for changes were found in Wikipedia.]
 
I understand that the morg introduced many changes to the 2013 edition in 2006 in their online versions of the text, but the fact that the hard copy publications of both the JW and the LDS occur at the same time seems suspicious to me.  
 
 Ooo, I got it both churches are true.  Both of their elders were inspired by gawd to make these changes and since gawd thought the change was important they occurred at the same time.
 Or...maybe both churches are of the devil?````  It is interesting.  Wonder how it happened?
 
Edit:  Corrected a mispelled word and wording.  Gee.  Tired last night. 
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Posted: 02 August 2014 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Or maybe they're run by the same person or shadow corporation. Everyone knows that when a product has direct competition with a similar product, both products sell better. Pepsi and Coke benefit from the ad wars they have with one another. And in my old home town there were two resturants who constantly made fun of each other in their ads, and then it turned out they were owned by the same guy.
 
So, this is my favorite conspiracy theory in this case. :D
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Posted: 02 August 2014 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I dunno.  It seems to me you're already in trouble when your frame of reference is Jehovah's Witnesses.  
 
 
[Sorry to be irreverent about JWs but we live close to one of their Kingdom Halls and get tracted at least once every 4-6 months so they wore away any patina of politesse several years ago.]


   


Posted: 02 August 2014 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Curious, then you might get a kick out of this recent episode of Mormon Expressions which held a contest to see who was weirder, JWs or Mormons. It might be cathartic.
 
http://mormonexpression.com/2014/06/16/episode-258/ 
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Posted: 02 August 2014 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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I have three JW famlies as neighbors.  I see that religion taking from them just as LDS, Inc does.  A few months ago, one of the men told me they were sure going to miss me in heaven.  He was a bit presistent.  I told him not to worry about me one bit.  I would be just fine!
 
One friend--I like all of these people--asked me to study the Bible with her.  I usually keep it nuteral.  This time I told her she did not want to study with me as reading about the god of the Bible and his bi-polar behavior of killing his children instead of coming in person and talking to them would just make me angry.  The condoning of rape and murder in the Bible was not OK. Told her there was a lot of good in the Bible but I thought men wrote it and I disagreed with at least half of it.  Told her the story of Abraham being told to kill his son was just horrible and evil and had nothing to do with god.  She took it well.  We are still friends but I wonder if she is afraid to take me to church with her.  She should be.  They would show me the door pretty fast.  Oh how I love being a PostMo and speaking my mind!
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2014 Conference
"Chrysalis"
Oct. 9 - 12
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



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[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
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Latter Gay Saints  
Posted: 25 July 2014 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Ex_aedibus
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The Phoenix New Times recently had an article about homosexuality and Mormons.  Two of the people featured are devout Latter-day Saints with two gay sons.  Needless to say, their perspectives have shifted significantly.
 
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2014/07/mormon-church-accepts-homosexuals.php


   


Posted: 27 July 2014 05:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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dave (e_nomo)
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Interesting article.  Thanks for the post.  
 
from the article.....
 
The Phoenix-area Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declined to comment on ALL Arizona and referred to the church's official website when asked about its official stance on homosexuality, so it's hard to know what's the thinking on this.
 It's not hard to know.  They think what they are told to think. 
 
 As with most matters in the Mormon Church, a lot has to do with local leadership, so if you have liberal local leaders, it is possible to be actively gay and still get assignments to serve the church -- but it is far from frequent. In fact, Hendrickson and other ALL Arizona members who have chosen to be actively LGBT say they no longer have callings, despite still being welcome to attend worship,
 One little positive for LGBT who still attend - no callings! 
 
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Posted: 27 July 2014 05:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Curious NeverMo
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dave (e_nomo):
Interesting article.  Thanks for the post.  
 
from the article.....
 
The Phoenix-area Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declined to comment on ALL Arizona and referred to the church's official website when asked about its official stance on homosexuality, so it's hard to know what's the thinking on this.
 It's not hard to know.  They think what they are told to think. 
 
 As with most matters in the Mormon Church, a lot has to do with local leadership, so if you have liberal local leaders, it is possible to be actively gay and still get assignments to serve the church -- but it is far from frequent. In fact, Hendrickson and other ALL Arizona members who have chosen to be actively LGBT say they no longer have callings, despite still being welcome to attend worship,
 One little positive for LGBT who still attend - no callings! 
 
 
 I get that that's a joke and probably reflects some genuine relief at being able to keep the church at arm's length.  But, think about it.  It's another way of saying that people are tolerated in a compromised, second class status which, conveniently, can be confirmed by anyone who's interested enough to inquire.  
 
The LDS seems very accomplished in establishing its unattainable elite and defining the 95% who are not part of it:
 
   •  women, except by proxy
   •  people with non-normative gender identity
   •  converts
   •  people married to non-members
   •  people who don't come from pioneer stock
   •  those who don't have the right callings
   •  those of less conservative political leanings
   •  the folks who didn't jump through all the hoops 
 
What kind of culture is it that keeps reinforcing the idea that it's members don't measure up?  How healthy is it to give up your autonomy to that?


   


Posted: 27 July 2014 06:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Curious NeverMo:
dave (e_nomo):
Interesting article.  Thanks for the post.  
 
from the article.....
 
The Phoenix-area Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declined to comment on ALL Arizona and referred to the church's official website when asked about its official stance on homosexuality, so it's hard to know what's the thinking on this.
 It's not hard to know.  They think what they are told to think. 
 
 As with most matters in the Mormon Church, a lot has to do with local leadership, so if you have liberal local leaders, it is possible to be actively gay and still get assignments to serve the church -- but it is far from frequent. In fact, Hendrickson and other ALL Arizona members who have chosen to be actively LGBT say they no longer have callings, despite still being welcome to attend worship,
 One little positive for LGBT who still attend - no callings! 
 
 
 I get that that's a joke and probably reflects some genuine relief at being able to keep the church at arm's length.  But, think about it.  It's another way of saying that people are tolerated in a compromised, second class status which, conveniently, can be confirmed by anyone who's interested enough to inquire.  
 
The LDS seems very accomplished in establishing its unattainable elite and defining the 95% who are not part of it:
 
   •  women, except by proxy
   •  people with non-normative gender identity
   •  converts
   •  people married to non-members
   •  people who don't come from pioneer stock
   •  those who don't have the right callings
   •  those of less conservative political leanings
   •  the folks who didn't jump through all the hoops 
 
What kind of culture is it that keeps reinforcing the idea that it's members don't measure up?  How healthy is it to give up your autonomy to that?
 Yeah, I did mean it as a little joke.  I am gay and can't imagine any circumstance where I'd want a calling.  But you make an excellent point -  it's absolutely another open mark of the second class status of mormon LGBTs. 
 
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Posted: 28 July 2014 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Being homosexual is nothing a penile plethysmograph can't take care of. After all, no less than Apostles of The Lord have stated homosexuality is a choice. Strap'em and shock'em and they will choose the babe.
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Posted: 29 July 2014 02:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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dave (e_nomo): 
 As with most matters in the Mormon Church, a lot has to do with local leadership, so if you have liberal local leaders, it is possible to be actively gay and still get assignments to serve the church -- but it is far from frequent. In fact, Hendrickson and other ALL Arizona members who have chosen to be actively LGBT say they no longer have callings, despite still being welcome to attend worship,
 One little positive for LGBT who still attend - no callings! 
 
 
 
 Does this also mean that they are being excluded from ward cleaning duties?  


   


Posted: 29 July 2014 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Ex_aedibus
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 Does this also mean that they are being excluded from ward cleaning duties?  
 
Since the restoration of the gospel in this dispensation, from time to time there have been made administrative decisions by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve acting unitedly in their roles as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators.
 
In order to hasten the work of expanding the real estate holdings of this Church, it has become necessary for faithful members of the Church to take a more active role in the maintenance, cleaning, and upkeep of our buildings.
 
Acting unitedly by revelation as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, we have determined that all faithful members are to accomplish this by regularly cleaning the temples and meetinghouses of the Church.  Those who clean the temples must hold temple reccommends.  Temple recommends are not, however, required to participate in the blessings of cleaning the meetinghouses.  Additionally, after much prayer, we have determined that all members, regardless of sexual orientation, are to share in the blessings of church cleaning and in the blessings of paying tithing.  These blessings are for all members, irregardless of whether or not they have formal church callings.  These blessings of paying tithing and cleaning church buildings may be revoked should a member with same-sex attractions act on them.
 
May the Lord bless you as you clean his meetinghouses and temples.
 
Sincerely,
 
The First Presidency 


   


Posted: 29 July 2014 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Ex_aedibus:


 
 Does this also mean that they are being excluded from ward cleaning duties?  
 
Since the restoration of the gospel in this dispensation, from time to time there have been made administrative decisions by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve acting unitedly in their roles as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators.
 
In order to hasten the work of expanding the real estate holdings of this Church, it has become necessary for faithful members of the Church to take a more active role in the maintenance, cleaning, and upkeep of our buildings.
 
Acting unitedly by revelation as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, we have determined that all faithful members are to accomplish this by regularly cleaning the temples and meetinghouses of the Church.  Those who clean the temples must hold temple reccommends.  Temple recommends are not, however, required to participate in the blessings of cleaning the meetinghouses.  Additionally, after much prayer, we have determined that all members, regardless of sexual orientation, are to share in the blessings of church cleaning and in the blessings of paying tithing.  These blessings are for all members, irregardless of whether or not they have formal church callings.  These blessings of paying tithing and cleaning church buildings may be revoked should a member with same-sex attractions act on them.
 
May the Lord bless you as you clean his meetinghouses and temples.
 
Sincerely,
 
The First Presidency 
 
  OOooo, this brings all sorts of images to mind!!   I will partake!
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Posted: 29 July 2014 08:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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It seems as though the church is getting the message that sexual attraction is beyond the control of the individual, and that just saying it is a choice will not make it so.
 
My brother is Gay. As a TBM I had no idea how to process this, until I got ahold of the facts from the scientificl community. Now I have a Human Rights Campaign sticker on the back of my car and I tell all of my aquaintenances about my amazing brother.  Talking about my brother is now a natural part of talking about myself. 
 
I wonder, why is it that when the church receives additional information they almost never act appropriately. If folks with same gender attraction arrive on the planet with this preference, and this is becoming clearer and clearer to the scientific community, why not expand the view, ammend the doctrine, and move on with the rest of humanity? It certainly sounds better than being 30 years late to the civil rights movement of the time. 
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 29 July 2014 08:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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“Group Conducts Mass Resignation From Mormon Church To Protest Excommunication Of Kate Kelly” (quote + link)  
Posted: 25 July 2014 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
CdnXMo
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Today's Huffington Post report begins with: "Nearly 500 Mormons joined a Facebook event for a mass resignation from the LDS Church on Thursday to protest the recent excommunication of Kate Kelly and disciplining of John Dehlin, two prominent activists in the Mormon community."
 
No doubt, there will be more fed-up Latter-day Saints leaving the misleading, misogynistic Mormon cult in the future. 
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“Statement by the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the Negro Question” (quote + link)  
Posted: 24 July 2014 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
CdnXMo
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I recently came across this online:
"Statement by the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the Negro Question" on August 17, 1951.
"The attitude of the Church with reference to negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct communication from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that negroes may become members of the church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: 'Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their father rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children [of Adam] have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain [i.e., Negroes], and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to.'
"President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: 'The day will come when all that [Negro] race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have.'
"The position of the Church regarding the negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the principle itself indicates that the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate [i.e., accepted the proposed plan of the spirit Jesus (a.k.a. Jehovah), and rejected Lucifer's plan of forced obedience during mortality]; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure to the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood, is a handicap to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the negroes."
This quoted text and the remainder of the statement is at https://archive.org/stream/MormonismAndTheNegro#page/n73/mode/2up and the next page (18).
Not surprisingly, the statement issued by LDS so-called "prophets, seers, and revelators" failed to explain why spirits of not-yet-incarnated Negroes in Mormonism's "premortal existence" would be "willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure."
 
For millions of blacks, was "taking on mortality" really "a privilege" when their "coming to this earth" involved being kidnapped from their villages in Africa, shackled in ghastly conditions in the bowels of slave ships, transported to the Americas where they were roughly inspected and sold like cattle, forced to toil on plantations to make white men rich, and subjected to beatings and other cruel physical acts if they resisted enslavement? In the supposedly 'inspired' minds of Caucasian "prophets" running the Mormon Church in 1951, the answer was apparently yes. Go figure.

More info.:
 
LDS apostle "Elder" Bruce McConkie wrote the following Latter-day Saint 'truths' in his encyclopedic volume, Mormon Doctrine:
"Though he was a rebel and an associate of Lucifer in the pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain managed to obtain the privilege of mortal birth....
"As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan." (1966 ed., p. 109)
In 1967, "Elder" N. Eldon Tanner, a Mormon apostle and First Presidency counselor, told SEATTLE Magazine: “The Church has no intention of changing its doctrine on the Negro. Throughout the history of the original Christian church, the Negro never held the priesthood. There’s really nothing we can do to change this. It’s a law of God.” (Ref. http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/antiblack.htm )
Fast-forward to 2014 and the misleading LDS Church's "Race and the Priesthood" essay, which says:
"Despite this modern reality, for much of its history—from the mid-1800s until 1978—the Church did not ordain men of black African descent to its priesthood or allow black men or women to participate in temple endowment or sealing ordinances.
"The Church was established in 1830, during an era of great racial division in the United States. At the time, many people of African descent lived in slavery, and racial distinctions and prejudice were not just common but customary among white Americans. Those realities, though unfamiliar and disturbing today, influenced all aspects of people’s lives, including their religion. Many Christian churches of that era, for instance, were segregated along racial lines. From the beginnings of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity could be baptized and received as members. Toward the end of his life, Church founder Joseph Smith openly opposed slavery. There has never been a Churchwide policy of segregated congregations.
"During the first two decades of the Church’s existence, a few black men were ordained to the priesthood. One of these men, Elijah Abel, also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio, and was later baptized as proxy for deceased relatives in Nauvoo, Illinois. There is no evidence that any black men were denied the priesthood during Joseph Smith’s lifetime.
"In 1852, President Brigham Young publicly announced that men of black African descent could no longer be ordained to the priesthood, though thereafter blacks continued to join the Church through baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Following the death of Brigham Young, subsequent Church presidents restricted blacks from receiving the temple endowment or being married in the temple. Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions."
xx 

It's official: What was previously "direct communication from the Lord", "the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization", and "a law of God" were in fact mere "theories" created by "Church leaders and members."
 
Bear that in mind, lurking Latter-day Saints, the next time Mormon patriarchal pricks tell you that paying tithing, accepting and "magnifying" callings, and doing other things to support "the Church" is "God's will" or a "commandment" from the invisible "Lord."
 
My Dec. 6/13 post, "The strange history of Mormon ‘truths’ about ‘cursed’ blacks, including Nelson Mandela," may also be of interest.
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Posted: 24 July 2014 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Excellent post! Allow me to extend the logic (or lack thereof): 
 
-
First presidency statement, 1951: "The attitude of the Church with reference to negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct communication from the Lord..."
 
Anonymous essay on church website, 2014: "Brigham Young announced a policy restricting men of black African descent from priesthood ordination ... President McKay reversed a prior policy that required prospective priesthood holders to trace their lineage out of Africa ... Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter the policy ..." 
 
So, mormons, what will it be? Was it a policy or was it doctrine? 
 
-
First presidency statement, 1951: "The position of the Church regarding the negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, ... the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate [i.e., accepted the proposed plan of the spirit Jesus (a.k.a. Jehovah) ... failure to the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood, is a handicap to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the negroes." 
 
Anonymous essay on church website, 2014: "Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a premortal life..."
 
So, mormons, what will it be? Was it a theory or was it doctrine? 
 
-
Brigham Young, prophet of God: "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110). 
 
"Cain slew his brother.... and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the ‘servant of servants,’ and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favorable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, pp. 290-291)
 
Anonymous essay on church website, 2014: "Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin ... reflects actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."
 
So, mormons, what will it be? Was it a theory or was it the law of God? Was it racism or was it a true curse from God?
 
-
Current mormon scripture, the Pearl of Great Price, still cannonized and accepted as doctrine: “...there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.” (Moses 7:8)
 
Current mormon scripture, the Pearl of Great Price, still cannonized and accepted as doctrine, confimed as recently as July 2014: "...and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham ... with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood." (Abraham 1:4,5,26)
 
So, mormons, was the priesthood ban and curse upon black people merely theory and policy, or is it doctrine as STILL contained in your canonized scripture?
 
YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! 
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Posted: 24 July 2014 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Yeah, this pushed one of my buttons... 
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Posted: 24 July 2014 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Thank you for these posts, CdnXmo and MU.  
This alone is enough to show that the mormon church is not what it claims to be.  
These are not just different points of view.  Someone is blatantly telling LIES here.  
 
I remember as a missionary telling people about the ways to find the one true church of Jesus Christ.  One of the ways was never that the true church would tell lies.  
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Posted: 24 July 2014 08:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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John E. Baker, III [was GraciesDaddy]
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One question:  Where did Brigham find shoes & handbag to match his misogyny and racism?
 
Gotta keep up with fashion.   
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Posted: 25 July 2014 06:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Oh, that Brigham. He's a real peach.
 
Every time I hear the word "negro" in relation to Mormonism, I can't help but think of the time Colbert had fun with it the time Harry Reid used the word.
 
There are many reasons to leave Mormonism in the dust, and its racism was one of the first issues that set me on the path out...
 
 
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No persecution surrounding the First Vision  
Posted: 21 July 2014 11:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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eddie
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Joseph was not persecuted as claimed.
Since Joseph never told anyone about the vision, he wasn't persecuted.  There is simply no evidence that he was ever persecuted for the First Vision.
Here's what Joseph said officially about it:
"Some few days after I had this vision, I happened to be in company with one of the Methodist preachers, who was very active in the before mentioned religious excitement; and, conversing with him on the subject of religion, I took occasion to give him an account of the vision which I had had. I was greatly surprised at his behavior; he treated my communication not only lightly, but with great contempt, saying it was all of the devil, that there were no such things as visions or revelations in these days; that all such things had ceased with the apostles, and that there would never be any more of them.
"I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sects-all united to persecute me.
"It caused me serious reflection then, and often has since, how very strange it was that an obscure boy, of a little over fourteen years of age, and one, too, who was doomed to the necessity of obtaining a scanty maintenance by his daily labor, should be thought a character of sufficient importance to attract the attention of the great ones of the most popular sects of the day, and in a manner to create in them a spirit of the most bitter persecution and dreviling. But strange or not, so it was, and it was often the cause of great sorrow to myself."
How strange that Joseph says that the neighborhood knew enough about it to persecute this obscure boy, but his own family hadn't heard about it at all.  If Joseph's story had actually occurred and caused said excitement, someone would have mentioned it.  No one did.
 
Joseph was persecuted, but not for his first vision account in 1820, but rather from talking about treasure digging and later, in 1827, about the golden plates.  No one, friend or foe, in New York or Pennsylvania remembers either that there was "great persecution" or even that Joseph claimed to have had a vision.  Not even his family remembers it.  It is likely that the vision was unremarkably similar to many other epiphanies of that era and no one took notice of it.
 
God & Christ visit a young boy, and because of local gossip, he withheld that info from his family.  And yet then he receives another visitation three years later from an angel, and immediately he tells his family?  Why the inconsistencies?
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____________________________________________
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Posted: 22 July 2014 06:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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He didn't want his family to know he'd been "taking the mushroom."
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Nephi
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Why do you insist on ruining a perfectly good story with the Truth?
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Posted: 23 July 2014 09:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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I think Grant Palmer, a former CES instructor for 34 years, does a great job of presenting this lack of evidence in his book, An Insiders View of Mormon Origins. 
 
Newbies should pick up a copy from Amazon. 
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Posted: 23 July 2014 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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His mother sure couldn't "memorize" her lines very well.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


            
 
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Mormons are embarrassed of their own doctrines, rightfully so.  
Posted: 20 July 2014 09:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Kori
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New shocking Mormon development:
Mormons disown scriptures, disown their own God, rather than deny Joseph, on film!!! Video coming soon!!!
 
They don't want to talk with anybody who knows anything about their Doomsday CULT that worships a Phalic God of Egypt.
 
Any wonder kids draw big penises on Mormon churches whenever they graphitti churches? ITS BECAUSE THE LITERALLY WORSHIP PENIS!!!"
 
Especially PENIS Holders!!!  
 
I'm going to print out pictures of this from now on,
 
In Full Color 11x17 as a leave behind with them to study and be able to defend. 
Put this on the flip side and laminate it. 

With
 
The LAW of the Priesthood superimposed over it. 
 
-
"The word of God,"
  
The New and Everlasting Covenant
 
D&C 132: 61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
 63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.
 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law."
The silent majority, is irrelevant when these bastards remain silent as kids are raped by their penis worshipping doomsday CULT.  
 Mitt Romney's making a cumback? 
We'll see about that.  
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Posted: 20 July 2014 10:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Ninon de Lenclos
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There is phallic worship in Hinduism too...
 
...Shiva's phallus (the Shiva lingam), to be precise.
 
Not all Hindus are Shaivites (more or less: members of the "Shiva" school of Hindu philosophy), but all Hindus honor the Shiva lingam.  If you go to a Hindu temple dedicated to any Hindu god or goddess (so may well not be a Shaivite temple), there will be a place somewhere (might be in an alcove inside, or maybe outside the front door in a protected area) where there is a Shiva lingam (often a very large Shiva lingam) that can be honored by anyone who desires to do this.  (You pour water, or melted butter, or milk over it while you say a prayer in Sanskrit.)
 
Many Hindu households (and, again, these are not necessarily self-identified Shaivite households), have a Shiva lingam as one of the several deities on the family shrine, and usually someone in the household, at least semi-regularly, does the pouring-and-Sanskrit thing.
 
Shiva lingams are "everywhere" in Hinduism!!!  (They're worn as jewelry, etc.)  
 
It's just a natural part of Hindu religious life. 
 

 
 


   


Posted: 21 July 2014 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Nephi
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Two requests.
 
Can you put the marriage dates for the 'sister wives' on the chart?
 
Can you make a link where we can download a much higher resolution copy of them so we can print them out idividually to post on a bulletin board or such?
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Posted: 21 July 2014 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Nephi:
Two requests.
 
Can you put the marriage dates for the 'sister wives' on the chart?
 
Can you make a link where we can download a much higher resolution copy of them so we can print them out idividually to post on a bulletin board or such?
 
Here's the original source of that infographic:
 
http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/09/the-many-wives-of-joseph-smith.html 
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Posted: 21 July 2014 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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What is most shocking to me as a former missionary is the tactic now employed by missionaries, of denying their own "Word of God' they pretend like they know nothing about the BoA or D&C. They don't even reference them at all or even possess them. They just distance themselves from them as fast as they can. 
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


Posted: 21 July 2014 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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Ok, time for a lesson on placing graphics.
These pictures are way too big, I can't get around, and I've tried three different browsers (chrome (my default), Firefox (2nd choice), and Internet Exploder)
 
Unless I don't have something turned on, let me know.
 
 
In the INSERT/EDIT IMAGE icon above, after placing the link for the picture, select the APPEARANCE tab, and in the dimension boxes, change the right box (horizontal) to around 500. The left box (vertical) will adjust to keep the ratio correct. 
 
This was a large image, over 1300 horizontal.
I set it at 500  (the second number in the dimension box).  
 
Let me see if it works.
 
 
  
 
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Posted: 21 July 2014 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Old Kinderhooker
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Kori:
What is most shocking to me as a former missionary is the tactic now employed by missionaries, of denying their own "Word of God' they pretend like they know nothing about the BoA or D&C. They don't even reference them at all or even possess them. They just distance themselves from them as fast as they can. 
 
I was a missionary once myself, and I can tell you I worked with some missionaries who really didn't know their scriptures. I'm not sure it was a tactical decision when they told you they didn't know about the BoA. They may just have been 18-year-old kids who didn't know shit about the organization they represent. Kids who are on a 2-year mission because they don't know how else to survive in their culture.
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Posted: 21 July 2014 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Kori
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Quartersawn:
Ok, time for a lesson on placing graphics.
These pictures are way too big, I can't get around, and I've tried three different browsers (chrome (my default), Firefox (2nd choice), and Internet Exploder)
 
Unless I don't have something turned on, let me know.
 
 
In the INSERT/EDIT IMAGE icon above, after placing the link for the picture, select the APPEARANCE tab, and in the dimension boxes, change the right box (horizontal) to around 500. The left box (vertical) will adjust to keep the ratio correct. 
 
This was a large image, over 1300 horizontal.
I set it at 500  (the second number in the dimension box).  
 
Let me see if it works.
 
 
  
 
 Sorry man.
I was in a hurry.
Just right clicking on images, copying image and pasting image into my posts.
I went back and did it the right way and sized them properly for you. 
 
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


Posted: 21 July 2014 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Old Kinderhooker:
I was a missionary once myself, and I can tell you I worked with some missionaries who really didn't know their scriptures. I'm not sure it was a tactical decision when they told you they didn't know about the BoA. They may just have been 18-year-old kids who didn't know shit about the organization they represent. Kids who are on a 2-year mission because they don't know how else to survive in their culture.
 I was a missionary once too.
18 years old is not a kid, it's a legal adult.
They're adult representatives of a fraudulent CULT.
IF they were out selling houses, instead of Joseph's Myth, they'd be sued for failure to disclose fundamental, structural faults in the foundation of the crappy houses they were selling. It's really not their fault. They're completely oblivious to the faults in the foundation of the faulty product they're selling. So, having been victimized by this whole Pyramid Scheme having bought one of those crappy houses, without legally required disclosure, to disclose what is not disclosed to the salesmen out selling these crappy houses to unsuspecting and vulnerable people. 
 
 
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


Posted: 21 July 2014 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Heretic
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Kori:
What is most shocking to me as a former missionary is the tactic now employed by missionaries, of denying their own "Word of God' they pretend like they know nothing about the BoA or D&C. They don't even reference them at all or even possess them. They just distance themselves from them as fast as they can.




This is true! I talked to some missionaries awhile back and asked them to look at something in the Pearl of Great Price, and neither one of them had a copy with them. Shameful! If you are a carpenter, do you ever go to work without your hammer? If you are a policeman, do you ever go to work without your badge? 

   


Posted: 21 July 2014 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Heretic:
Kori:
What is most shocking to me as a former missionary is the tactic now employed by missionaries, of denying their own "Word of God' they pretend like they know nothing about the BoA or D&C. They don't even reference them at all or even possess them. They just distance themselves from them as fast as they can. 
 
 


This is true! I talked to some missionaries awhile back and asked them to look at something in the Pearl of Great Price, and neither one of them had a copy with them. Shameful! If you are a carpenter, do you ever go to work without your hammer? If you are a policeman, do you ever go to work without your badge?
What really amazed me was when I asked a couple of Missionaries about the BoA and they actually laughed at me and said, Book of Abraham? Is that in the Bible?" 
My response was, didn't you guys attend seminary? Didn't they teach you the basics about Mormonism before they sent you out to be missionaries? I was a missionary too, you can't fool me. Look, I got the LAW of the Priesthood memorized. I've got Fascimille 2, Fig 7 memorized, and I've got the 11th Article of Faith memorized. 
I don't need scriptures, but these missionaries should have their own word of God and they should be capable of speaking intelligently about them. 
 
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Posted: 21 July 2014 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Old Kinderhooker
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Kori:
Old Kinderhooker:
I was a missionary once myself, and I can tell you I worked with some missionaries who really didn't know their scriptures. I'm not sure it was a tactical decision when they told you they didn't know about the BoA. They may just have been 18-year-old kids who didn't know shit about the organization they represent. Kids who are on a 2-year mission because they don't know how else to survive in their culture.
 I was a missionary once too.
18 years old is not a kid, it's a legal adult.
They're adult representatives of a fraudulent CULT.
IF they were out selling houses, instead of Joseph's Myth, they'd be sued for failure to disclose fundamental, structural faults in the foundation of the crappy houses they were selling. It's really not their fault. They're completely oblivious to the faults in the foundation of the faulty product they're selling. So, having been victimized by this whole Pyramid Scheme having bought one of those crappy houses, without legally required disclosure, to disclose what is not disclosed to the salesmen out selling these crappy houses to unsuspecting and vulnerable people. 
 
 
 
My trainer never carried all four standard works. He carried the BoM tucked under his belt in the back, and that was all he carried. I lugged my quad around, but it was seldom used. Most of the other missionaries in my mission didn't carry anything but the BoM.
 
They're dupes on a mission to dupe others. Like you say, they're oblivious, and not only oblivious to the problems with their church's history but also oblivious to many of its current doctrines and practices.
 
All I was really saying is that they may genuinely not have known about the BoA, and may not know the difference between the PoGP and the Biblical OT. Those things would be easy to conflate if one weren't an attentive type person. Mormon youth (even if they are legal adults) are encouraged to only be attentive in specific contexts. Outside of these contexts, they can be as ignorant as they want.
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Posted: 21 July 2014 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Old Kinderhooker:
Kori:
Old Kinderhooker:
I was a missionary once myself, and I can tell you I worked with some missionaries who really didn't know their scriptures. I'm not sure it was a tactical decision when they told you they didn't know about the BoA. They may just have been 18-year-old kids who didn't know shit about the organization they represent. Kids who are on a 2-year mission because they don't know how else to survive in their culture.
 I was a missionary once too.
18 years old is not a kid, it's a legal adult.
They're adult representatives of a fraudulent CULT.
IF they were out selling houses, instead of Joseph's Myth, they'd be sued for failure to disclose fundamental, structural faults in the foundation of the crappy houses they were selling. It's really not their fault. They're completely oblivious to the faults in the foundation of the faulty product they're selling. So, having been victimized by this whole Pyramid Scheme having bought one of those crappy houses, without legally required disclosure, to disclose what is not disclosed to the salesmen out selling these crappy houses to unsuspecting and vulnerable people. 
 
 
 
My trainer never carried all four standard works. He carried the BoM tucked under his belt in the back, and that was all he carried. I lugged my quad around, but it was seldom used. Most of the other missionaries i
n my mission didn't carry anything but the BoM.
 
They're dupes on a mission to dupe others. Like you say, they're oblivious, and not only oblivious to the problems with their church's history but also oblivious to many of its current doctrines and practices.
 
All I was really saying is that they may genuinely not have known about the BoA, and may not know the difference between the PoGP and the Biblical OT. Those things would be easy to conflate if one weren't an attentive type person. Mormon youth (even if they are legal adults) are encouraged to only be attentive in specific contexts. Outside of these contexts, they can be as ignorant as they want.
 
 I get your point and agree. The difference between me and the missionaries I'm encountering these days, is the level of intellectual dishonesty they're willing to exhibit.
Right after promising to answer my questions honestly, they lied about the Book of Abraham, pretending they had never heard if it.
I wouldn't have run away from a debate with a critic, I would have debated them, not in a contentious way, but in order to establish the truth, not only in my mind, but in my companions mind, and in the minds of future generations. The truth has always been important to me. 
Had anybody showed me that I worshipped a God named Min, with a 2' erection, I would have gotten to the bottom of it, not fled the scene.
Had anybody told me Joseph's Myth violated the LAW of the Priesthood when he "married" (screwed) other men's wives, I would have paid attention, researched it and upon finding they were right, I would have left the immoral, indefensible doomsday sex cult of Joseph's Myth., despite the social implications and personal costs of admitting Id been duped. 
Problem is, nobody bothered telling me the truth about the deeply flawed product I was flogging, at least nobody who knew what the hell they were talking about. I had to figure it out on my own via the internet.  Now that I know the truth, I'm obligated to not remain silent about it when this army of 80,000 brainwashes is out there brainwashing gullible sheep full time. 
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


Posted: 21 July 2014 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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Kori, thanks for resizing the images.  Makes the thread much more readable.
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Posted: 21 July 2014 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
Celestial Wedgie
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Kori:
 
Sorry man.
I was in a hurry.
Just right clicking on images, copying image and pasting image into my posts.
I went back and did it the right way and sized them properly for you. 
 
Thanks, Kori, for fixing this.  It is easier to read this way.
 
You mentioned the value of debate for establishing truth.  I personally don't see it as all that effective at establishing truth.  Mostly it establishes who is best at debate.
 
When I was in college I had a professor who gave a lesson on not being too persuaded by argumentation.  He presented us with this reasoning: "Nothing is better than God.  Stale potato chips are better than nothing.  Therefore stale potato chips are better than God."  He assured us that there was a logical flaw in there, but it was sort of hard to spot and even harder to explain.  Then the major lesson: just because you don't have a ready answer for a perplexing argument does not make you wrong.  I held to that lesson pretty tightly because I sucked at debate.
 
If I were a young missionary again (! ) I wouldn't be persuaded with the information you gave.  Instead I would think, "Wow, I wish I were that smart!"  But then I'd go my way and keep teaching the same crap.    On my mission I never bore testimony and I never said that I knew it was true.  I couldn't push my moral elastics that far.  But I did keep teaching and I invited lots of people to consider the Mormon church: maybe they'd be happier or live better lives.  A few months into the mission I was certain that I couldn't believe in Mormonism, but even then I still kept teaching.  Partly I was terrified of being branded a mission failure, which was social death for a kid coming from devoutly Mormon Utah suburbia.  And I kept teaching.  I don't think I ever once taught from the Pearl of Great Price or the Doctrine and Covenants.
 
Maybe I'm morally defective or intellectually lazy, but I bet there are lots of missionaries like I was, young guys who might bump into arguments like those you've presented and still keep on teaching.


   


Posted: 21 July 2014 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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Heretic
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I think arguments can indeed be effective. If you present new information that the other person has never heard before, they might decide to believe you, investigate further, or think about the matter some. The sleeper effect can do wonders. If you tell a Mormon today that Joseph Smith had 34 wives, he might say, "You are a liar! An evil anti-Mormon! You need to repent!" But someday a couple years from now he might be depressed about the church, or looking at a genealogy website, or repeatedly hearing the same thing about Joseph Smith from multiple sources. He might actually investigate the matter and change his beliefs, and it all started with your argument which provided new information. 

   


Posted: 21 July 2014 10:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Heretic:
I think arguments can indeed be effective. If you present new information that the other person has never heard before, they might decide to believe you, investigate further, or think about the matter some. The sleeper effect can do wonders. If you tell a Mormon today that Joseph Smith had 34 wives, he might say, "You are a liar! An evil anti-Mormon! You need to repent!" But someday a couple years from now he might be depressed about the church, or looking at a genealogy website, or repeatedly hearing the same thing about Joseph Smith from multiple sources. He might actually investigate the matter and change his beliefs, and it all started with your argument which provided new information.
 Aristotles rhetorical appeals still apply.
The Socratic method is still effective. 
Those methods don't become ineffective just because people are uneducated, they work to educate people. Educating the youth is one of our highest callings. My goal is to educate people by exposing them to the truth.
I think there's a big difference between truth and bullshit.
We are under no obligation to remain silent as The enemy of truth sends out 80,000 missionaries/day to sell its lies about Joseph's Myth. The truth is simple and doesn't require an army to get established. It gets established as anachronistic myths are debunked and discarded where they belong, on the dustheap of anachronisms. The only thing keeping this particular bogus myth alive is the silent majority of Mormons who lend creedence to the bullshit by subscribing to it. Not in any kind if a well considered world view, but because the group think serves them well. They believe their numbers will deliver them to the promised land, never stopping to consider that they were all born onto the slave ship SS Joseph's Myth. 
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 12:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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Heretic
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I sent a message to my TBM brother who lives out of town that I had learned many really amazing things about the LDS church and that I felt like I should stop being stingy and share them with him, but that I figured he probably did not want to know, because having the truth can change how you live your life.
My brother basically said, "I am really busy with my job and rather stressed out right now. Maybe I will talk to you someday after things settle down at work."
I take this to mean that he never ever wants to talk to me about this subject because of one of two reasons:
(1) I am full of evil anti-Mormon lies and it would be a waste of his time to talk to me.
(2) I might actually know something he does not, and learning the truth would change his life. That really terrifies him. 

   


Posted: 22 July 2014 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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Bold Wish
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-
 
Don't date until you're sixteen?
 
JS married a 14 year old and two 16 year olds?
 
 
The level of hypocrisy and dishonesty exercised by the organization is truly mind boggling
 
 
 
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Lloyd Dobler:
There is almost no limit to how bad the church will make you their bitch.


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 05:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Heretic:
I sent a message to my TBM brother who lives out of town that I had learned many really amazing things about the LDS church and that I felt like I should stop being stingy and share them with him, but that I figured he probably did not want to know, because having the truth can change how you live your life.
My brother basically said, "I am really busy with my job and rather stressed out right now. Maybe I will talk to you someday after things settle down at work."
I take this to mean that he never ever wants to talk to me about this subject because of one of two reasons:
(1) I am full of evil anti-Mormon lies and it would be a waste of his time to talk to me.
(2) I might actually know something he does not, and learning the truth would change his life. That really terrifies him.
 
 Mormons are kept too busy to think straight
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Kori:
Heretic:
I sent a message to my TBM brother who lives out of town that I had learned many really amazing things about the LDS church and that I felt like I should stop being stingy and share them with him, but that I figured he probably did not want to know, because having the truth can change how you live your life.
My brother basically said, "I am really busy with my job and rather stressed out right now. Maybe I will talk to you someday after things settle down at work."
I take this to mean that he never ever wants to talk to me about this subject because of one of two reasons:
(1) I am full of evil anti-Mormon lies and it would be a waste of his time to talk to me.
(2) I might actually know something he does not, and learning the truth would change his life. That really terrifies him.
 
 Mormons are kept too busy to think straight
 
Bullseye. When things settle down at work, he'll be too busy with his new calling as HP group leader or whatever, or he'll be home teaching, or he'll be preparing a lesson for Sunday, or he'll be watching kids/grandkids when wife/daughter/daughter-in-law is off to relief society... It never f##king ends. NEVER.
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
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Jeff Ricks
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Heretic:
I sent a message to my TBM brother who lives out of town that I had learned many really amazing things about the LDS church and that I felt like I should stop being stingy and share them with him, but that I figured he probably did not want to know, because having the truth can change how you live your life.
My brother basically said, "I am really busy with my job and rather stressed out right now. Maybe I will talk to you someday after things settle down at work."
I take this to mean that he never ever wants to talk to me about this subject because of one of two reasons:
(1) I am full of evil anti-Mormon lies and it would be a waste of his time to talk to me.
(2) I might actually know something he does not, and learning the truth would change his life. That really terrifies him.
 
Now that the Brethren are admitting to some of the facts its denied for decades, and have therfore exposed their fallibility, maybe it's time we assume the high road with our TBM family and friends when Mormonism comes up in a conversation and there's an opportunity to share with them some uncomfortable facts.  Maybe next time share those facts and then say: This is the point in your life where you get to find out whether you have the courage to stand for truth, or whether you will instead make excuses for beliving in lies. Choose wisely.  Then say no more and let them chew on that for a few weeks, and see what happens.
 
 
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Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.
- Joseph Campbell


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
Flora4
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Ninon de Lenclos:
There is phallic worship in Hinduism too...
 
...Shiva's phallus (the Shiva lingam), to be precise.
 


 
 
 
 I love Aphrodite.  No bigger phallus worship than her.  Being literally born from a severed penis of a god thrown into the sea.


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Flora:
Ninon de Lenclos:
There is phallic worship in Hinduism too...
 
...Shiva's phallus (the Shiva lingam), to be precise
 
 I love Aphrodite.  No bigger phallus worship than her.  Being literally born from a severed penis of a god thrown into the sea.
 
 It's not the phalic worship that bugs me, it's the lying about what is clearly evident and really embarrassing to the cult that spends untold billions every year trying to convince the world the Gid of Joseph's Myth is the one and only TRUE God on the face of the planet. Come to find out he's one of many Egyptian Gods, the one with a full time raging hard on. Why pick that God out of all the possible choices of millions if gods? Because it reinforced the patriarchal, white, straight male hierarchy, which is what Mormons are all about, conserving traditional family values, like racism, sexism, homophobia and demo nixing apostates. Typical CULT behavior. Pitting us against them. 
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Posted: 24 July 2014 05:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]   

   
 
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“Not sure about a higher power but I definitely believe in re-sizing my images to not be so freaking wide.” Dark Chocolate


   


            
 
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 Whose apostasy most surprised you and why?
Author: MsLed 9 553  
Posted: 07-28-2014 01:05 PM
Author: Ex_aedibus 


 How the Internet is Destroying Mormonism
Author: Ex_aedibus 6 386  
Posted: 07-28-2014 12:56 PM
Author: Matter Unorganized 


 Mellowed
Author: My Turn 14 518  
Posted: 07-28-2014 10:24 AM
Author: lunaverse 


 Rock Waterman’s book has been published
Author: Curious NeverMo 11 560  
Posted: 07-28-2014 08:47 AM
Author: Ex_aedibus 


 Carolinas Get Together - Some fun in the Sun!
Author: Swearing Elder 5 283  
Posted: 07-28-2014 08:21 AM
Author: Swearing Elder 


 There is no afterlife.  How does this make you feel?
Author: Heretic 18 637  
Posted: 07-28-2014 04:34 AM
Author: OldSoul 


 The “Program” of the Lord
Author: thalmar 10 492  
Posted: 07-28-2014 03:38 AM
Author: Old Kinderhooker 


 Dare I Post Another One of These?  (Probiotic Article from Forbes)
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 4 153  
Posted: 07-27-2014 08:58 PM
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 


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Author: Small-town Girl 32 952  
Posted: 07-27-2014 08:16 PM
Author: 4thNephite 


 The reporting of abuse and criminal activity to church “leadership”
Author: HintofLimeTostitos 3 178  
Posted: 07-27-2014 08:03 PM
Author: Free2Live 


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Author: Scott Stevenson 8 498  
Posted: 07-27-2014 04:37 PM
Author: Old Kinderhooker 


 Are Pot Brownies approved by the Word of Wisdom?
Author: Elder OldDog 8 211  
Posted: 07-27-2014 03:09 PM
Author: dave (e_nomo) 


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Author: Brad (ZeeZrom) 6 380  
Posted: 07-26-2014 06:56 AM
Author: Matter Unorganized 



  
   

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Mothers and SEX!!?
by thalmar
Questions for missionaries (or any other Mormons)
by Kori
please help
by Celestial Wedgie
Caffeine reduces Tinnitus, another WOW bust....
by Celestial Wedgie
St. Joe Company?
by Heretic
Still changing....
by Inexile
Resignation and Family Records
by Inexile
who the Gentiles really were...
by claire2
CES Letter rebuttal updated
by fauxmon
PoMo dating preferences
by Jennilee
Un-ringing the bell
by Elder OldDog
Book Release on Mormon Mind Control At Last!
by Free2Live
Finances/Monson
by Free2Live
Kate Kelly's appeal
by Free2Live
Mormons worship Min, the phallic God of Egypt - Video of Mormon Missionary confrontation
by Tessa
BYU-I Prof of Religion resigns
by WinstonSmith
Help setting boundaries and a lot of venting
by Curious NeverMo
Watched Dateline's Warren Jeff's episode with a Mormon, who told me she didn't want to ID herself as Mormon anymore after that. lol
by Strong Free & Thankful
The Misattributed Cycle of Victory over Self-Abuse! - What is your Gap of Onan?
by Ex_aedibus
Mormon Infographics strikes again
by Old Kinderhooker 

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The Mormon Mask
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 I have left the church, but my wife told me she still believes.
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Posted: 08-09-2014 05:26 PM
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 Lint in the navel, marrow in the bones . . .
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Posted: 08-09-2014 07:46 AM
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 Meetup - Sunday, Aug 10th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT)
Author: BITE ME 7 524  
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Author: BITE ME 


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 The Profit and Senility
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 The Mormon Cipher
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Posted: 08-08-2014 03:50 PM
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 IT’S FAST APPROACHING!  2014 EXMORMON FOUNDATION CONFERENCE, OCT. 10-12
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 LD$ Inc.‘s 2013 financial info. filed with the Canada Revenue Agency (info. + links)
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 Unitarian Universalism?
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Author: Kori 


 “Loving your life is a sin, hating it is a commandment” - Jesus.
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Posted: 08-06-2014 01:43 PM
Author: Everton 


 Is the Mormon God of Joseph’s Myth black with a redonkulous dick, bigger than any porn stars?
Author: Kori 2 209  
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Posted: 08-06-2014 01:30 PM
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 Response to my TBM wife…
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Author: layla 


 It wasn’t a “revelation” that ended Mormon polygamy. It was a U.S. Supreme Court decision against the “late corporation” of the LDS Church (links)
Author: CdnXMo 6 397  
Posted: 08-05-2014 02:04 PM
Author: Matter Unorganized 


 I can’t think for myself…Can I?
Author: Youngsinglerunning 4 311  
Posted: 08-05-2014 11:18 AM
Author: Hermit53 



  
   

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(Joined in last 24 hours)  Concerned
Total members: 9642 


Mothers and SEX!!?
by thalmar
Stump the missionaries (or any other Mormons) anytime, anywhere...
by Kori
please help
by Celestial Wedgie
Caffeine reduces Tinnitus, another WOW bust....
by Celestial Wedgie
St. Joe Company?
by Heretic
Still changing....
by Inexile
Resignation and Family Records
by Inexile
who the Gentiles really were...
by claire2
CES Letter rebuttal updated
by fauxmon
PoMo dating preferences
by Jennilee
Un-ringing the bell
by Elder OldDog
Book Release on Mormon Mind Control At Last!
by Free2Live
Finances/Monson
by Free2Live
Kate Kelly's appeal
by Free2Live
Mormons worship Min, the phallic God of Egypt - Video of Mormon Missionary confrontation
by Tessa
BYU-I Prof of Religion resigns
by WinstonSmith
Help setting boundaries and a lot of venting
by Curious NeverMo
Watched Dateline's Warren Jeff's episode with a Mormon, who told me she didn't want to ID herself as Mormon anymore after that. lol
by Strong Free & Thankful
The Misattributed Cycle of Victory over Self-Abuse! - What is your Gap of Onan?
by Ex_aedibus
Mormon Infographics strikes again
by Old Kinderhooker 

  
http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewforum/5/P35/