AtheistNexus.org article on atheists and violent crime

 







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Are known atheists more likely to be convicted of violent crimes?
Posted by roland707 on August 26, 2014 at 11:58pm in Water Cooler
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This question came to me after watching a forensics show recently. This lady in Atlanta had been killed and the DA had a pretty strong case against her husband. One of the husband's good friends (whom he owed money to) was also killed. The husband said the friend had came into his house (thinking it empty) to rob him for the debt and surprised the wife, so he killed her, then husband came in and killed friend in self defense. Both men were bookies, by the way.
One of the things introduced in the trial by the prosecution was the idea that the couple was having big problems, including their difference of religion. She was a Christian with "very strong feelings" about her spirituality. He was atheist. Again, the prosecution already had a good case without this tidbit.
What stood out to me was the jury deliberation time. They came back with a guilty in 45 minutes. That's awful damn fast. Do you think the jury just thought "sure he's guilty because atheists have no morals"? Seemed like it was at least a contributing factor.
So, if one of us was on trial for murder or some other violent crime, do you think it would sway a jury to "guilty" due to our lack of religion?






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 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn 7 hours ago

Actually Roland, I do believe that a jury would more likely convict you if you were a known and open atheist. The reason I believe this is because they would only know the atheist stereotype and what the fundies say about atheists. I still recall working at the factory and when it came out that I was atheist a former "backslidden" Pentecostal told me to my face that if I did not stay away from him we would physically fight. My reply was why should I be fighting him over something that I believe? What would that have to do with him and why would it make him react so violently? He backed off. Some people still want to believe that we eat babies, you know.
I might point out that I was once watching a true murder mystery program on TV where this killer explained why he killed the old religious couple for no reason at all. He claimed he did them a favor by "sending them to heaven."  He even claimed that he liked them.
Statistics will show that more murders (and crimes in general) are committed by theists. Then again, statistics will show that there are more theists than atheists.

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 Permalink Reply by Pat 3 hours ago

Michael, the actual number of atheists and agnostics in the US, according to a Pew Research Poll done in 2012, is about 6%. Now, you're correct in that there are more theists than atheists in the US. The percentage of Catholics in US is 25% of the population. You would expect the prison population to be about 25% Catholic, and you would be correct, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons. However, the prison population is not comprised of 6% atheists and agnostics as you would expect.
The percentage of atheists who are incarcerated is seven tenths of one percent (0.07%). On a per capita basis, the religious are still more likely to be sentenced to imprisonment than atheists.
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 Permalink Reply by Luara 2 hours ago

On a per capita basis, the religious are still more likely to be sentenced to imprisonment than atheists.
I wonder what the influence of atheism on imprisonment would look like if one did a regression analysis.
After all, atheism is correlated with other factors such as education and (probably) economic class, which are also correlated with crime.  A regression analysis attempts to tease out the effect of individual factors.
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 3 hours ago

Michael, that is why statistics analysis looks at the rate, Per 1,000 christians, how many are convicted of crimes vs. per 1,000 atheists, how many are convicted of crimes.
When I ran the stats on child abuse, I found the highest ratio of convictions for child abuse by occupation was ministers. That is counter intuitive, but that is what the numbers showed. Per 1,000 ministers the rate was higher than per 1,000 carpenters, or 1,000 symphony orchestra conductors, etc.
So, now, we can look at those convicted for murder by ratio, 1,000 religious vs. 1,000 non-religious. The search is on.
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 Permalink Reply by booklover 4 hours ago

Yes, I believe it would.  People are stupid.
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 Permalink Reply by Luara 4 hours ago

What's the name of the forensics show?  Is it on Youtube?  I watch a lot of Datelines etc. on Youtube.
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn 4 hours ago

I was talking about shows on ID Discovery, but You Tube might have them if you search the right keywords. If you know the shows name you might search like "watch Cold Case online" or something like that. Everything that has ever been on TV is stored someplace on a cloud service. If you have the right info or repo you can retrieve that and watch it. This is why I use XBMC which will soon change to "Koni" because of legal battles with XBox. The software is free and it is streaming software.
What I have said above about TV is also the same for movies.
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 Permalink Reply by Luara 3 hours ago

I was asking roland707, who was talking about a forensics show they saw.
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 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky 3 hours ago
I saw that show. Although I missed the part about the husband being atheist. I found the evidence against the husband to be overwhelming in favor of guilty.
 To the original question ; could a verdict turn on a person being atheist l believe it would.
 Everyone thinks if we're godless we are capable of anything.
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 Permalink Reply by Luara 3 hours ago

What was the name of the show???  Is it on Youtube?
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 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky 1 hour ago
Luara, l believe l saw it on Dateline. It may havebbeen Forensic Files.
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 3 hours ago

The first article I found comparing religious and non-religious and violence is not a statistical analysis, however, it does give rationale for violence.
Religion, Violence, Crime and Mass Suicide

"According to statistics from the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Christians make up almost 80 percent of the prison population. Atheists make up about 0.2 percent. [...] It is safe to conclude that the godless do not fill prisons. Published studies do indicate that a child's risk of sexual abuse by a family member increases as the family's religious denomination becomes more conservative, that is, when the teachings of scriptures and other doctrines are taken more literally. Similarly, the probability of wife abuse increases with the rigidity of a church's teachings pertaining to gender roles and hierarchy. [...] Even observers from the Christian side have expressed dismay that the current dominance of evangelical Christianity in America has not translated into a strengthening of the nation's moral character or the characters of evangelical Christians themselves. In an article in Christianity Today, theologian Ronald Sider lamented [...]:
"The findings in numerous national polls conducted by highly respected pollsters like The Gallup Organization and The Barna Group are simply shocking. 'Gallup and Barna,' laments evangelical theologian Michael Horton, 'hand us survey after survey demonstrating that evangelical Christians are as likely to embrace lifestyles every bit as hedonistic, materialistic, self-centered, and sexually immoral as the world in general.' "
The entire article is well worth the read.
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http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/are-known-atheists-more-likely-to-be-convicted-of-violent-crimes?xg_source=activity&id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2465954&page=1#comments







































































Are known atheists more likely to be convicted of violent crimes?
Posted by roland707 on August 26, 2014 at 11:58pm in Water Cooler
View Discussions
.



This question came to me after watching a forensics show recently. This lady in Atlanta had been killed and the DA had a pretty strong case against her husband. One of the husband's good friends (whom he owed money to) was also killed. The husband said the friend had came into his house (thinking it empty) to rob him for the debt and surprised the wife, so he killed her, then husband came in and killed friend in self defense. Both men were bookies, by the way.
One of the things introduced in the trial by the prosecution was the idea that the couple was having big problems, including their difference of religion. She was a Christian with "very strong feelings" about her spirituality. He was atheist. Again, the prosecution already had a good case without this tidbit.
What stood out to me was the jury deliberation time. They came back with a guilty in 45 minutes. That's awful damn fast. Do you think the jury just thought "sure he's guilty because atheists have no morals"? Seemed like it was at least a contributing factor.
So, if one of us was on trial for murder or some other violent crime, do you think it would sway a jury to "guilty" due to our lack of religion?






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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 2 hours ago

God, the Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exi...
If god exists, as conventionally presented in the Judeo-Christian and Islamic traditions, there would be evidence of such an existence other than stories, legends, myths, fairy tales, and nursery rhymes. Stenger, a particle physicist, philosopher, author, and religious skeptic, he stated,  "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings".
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/3567

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 Permalink Reply by Grinning Cat 2 hours ago

I read that book, and recommend it!
Among Dr. Stenger's many arguments, he posits that a god that cares about humans' well-being and doesn't hide from sincere seekers would at least give some worthwhile moral guidance to adherents of some true religion, or at least to their leaders. Ain't happening.
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