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Book Release on Mormon Mind Control At Last!  
Posted: 21 July 2014 11:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Ok I have been in here trumpeting this book for awhile now, and the big day is finally here.
 
Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control is finally available to buy. Both print and Kindle editions are on Amazon. The print version is even on sale, bless Amazon's dear little heart. If you buy the print version, you can add the ebook on for just a dollar.
 
In case you don't know what it's all about, I've collected research by social psychologists and cult exit counselors all into one place. I describe 31 mind control techniques and then show quotes from official LDS leaders, manuals, scriptures, exmormon exit stories, and other sources, revealing just how those techniques are used in the Mormon context. All of this is given with a basic background in the science of how we believe what we do, and under what conditions we will and will not change our minds.
 
The primary goal is to help exmormons like you recover. I personally found healing by reading up on these topics, so I decided to consolidate it into one book. I'm also hoping to reach the general public and help everyone defend against all sources of coercive persuasion.
 
If you're planning to buy, today (July 22nd) is the best day to do so. Because, not only does Amazon have it on sale, but the more sales that go through on the same day (same week helps a little, too), the higher the rank, and Amazon will show the book to more people. That will give exposure to people who don't normally visit sites like this.
 
So if you're also planning to buy an extra copy to slip into your TBM brother-in-law's bathroom, might as well grab both copies now. ;)
 
Here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1489595937/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1489595937&linkCode=as2&tag=lunalind-20&linkId=THMFPMWOOATELQIY
 
It also helps a great deal if, after you read it, you leave an honest rating and review. Even critical reviews are helpful. Amazon is all about the numbers. 
 
Please feel free to ask me any questions in this thread. 
 
Thanks so much!
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 07:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
SuziQ
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I ordered the Kindle version this morning and have already started reading.  After 5 years out of the church I am well along in the healing process, but I have family members who are just beginning the painful road to freedom.  I'm looking forward to reading more of your book.  Thanks.   

   


Posted: 22 July 2014 07:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Thanks, SuziQ! :D 
 
I didn't start reading about mind control until I'd been out about 4 years. I thought I was all done with everything and then discovered I still had lots of traps installed in my brain. Getting rid of them was as easy as learning they were there. I hope it helps you and your family! 
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Just ordered a hard copy of your book from Amazon.  Can't wait to read it!!!  
 
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“Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.”


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Thanks, Strong & Free!
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
Ninon de Lenclos
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Hi, Luna:
 
Very serious question...
 
When is the cut-off time for "July 22"?  We have several time zones in the U.S., and I need to know this information for the Pacific time zone.
 
My partner is a book dealer, and Amazon (one of many book business accounts) is permanently logged in under his book business.  I don't know his passwords, and I don't want to mess up his business accounts (some of them are very easy to mess up for various reasons).  I won't be able to get him here at the computer, to put in the order for me, until after about 9:30 PM PDT tonight.
 
Will this meet the "July 22nd" deadline wherever Amazon ends THEIR business day?
 
Thanks for writing this book...it was VERY much needed!!!
 
All my best to you,
 
Ninon


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Celestial Wedgie
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Congratulations on this day, Lunaverse.  I know this has been a long-term project requiring conviction and devotion.  This is one of those moments when a person ought to stop, look back, take a deep breath, and proudly tell herself, "There, I did it!"
 



   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Ninon, the ways of Amazon are very mysterious. I'm not really sure. I've been operating on Pacific time (started everything at midnight) since I know they most likely use an US timestamp of some sort and it would be 3am on the East coast. Amazon corporate is based in Seattle, so it might be Pacific.
 
I wouldn't worry about it too much. They also track trends, the smooth curves up and down. I don't think the ranking cuts off at the end of the day, but the more in a short time period the better. (People write many blog posts speculating on how it all works.)
 
I'm already #1 in the narrow category  "Kindle Religious Studies > Psychology", beating out Sam Harris's End of Faith, so that's good at least! :)
 
Celestial, thank you! After hyperfocusing on this for so long it's really hard to just stop and smell the roses. I've been checking my stats, replying to tweets, replying to facebook posts, in a continuous cycle all day. A writer is never satisfied, and the work feels never done, so thank you for the reminder.
 
So far I've sold about 25 copies, which, for an indie writer, is pretty awesome. I get the feeling this will be a slow, word of mouth seller, as more people read it. If it helps people, they will pass it on. I've already gotten one 5 star review (from someone I don't know even!) and some retweets by people with lots of followers. So fingers crossed!
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
Ninon de Lenclos
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Celestial Wedgie:
Congratulations on this day, Lunaverse.  I know this has been a long-term project requiring conviction and devotion.  This is one of those moments when a person ought to stop, look back, take a deep breath, and proudly tell herself, "There, I did it!"
 

 
A very hearty Hear! Hear! to Luna!
 
    
 
 


   


Posted: 22 July 2014 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Ninon de Lenclos:
 
A very hearty Hear! Hear! to Luna!
 
    
 
 
 
 *blush* thanks!
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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How many books sold today Luna?  It would surely be nice if you and your book would be featured on CNN or other or maybe on the Bill Maher show.  I wonder what would happen if you mailed Bill a copy?  
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“Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.”


   


Posted: 23 July 2014 08:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Thanks for asking! :)
 
I sold 55 copies (mostly Kindle) in the first day, and about .. I dunno around 10 today (mostly print). That was enough to get me into the Amazon #1 seller in a couple of "Religious Studies > Psychology" subcategories. It got up to around #8,000 in the Kindle store overall and around #10,000 in "All books" which includes print. I'm currently sitting at #9 in the LDS category of the Kindle store.
 
Thanks for everyone who purchased right away because it helped push my rank up so high, which the Amazon Algorythm Gods smile kindly upon. :)
 
It will trail off for awhile until I can get some guest blog posts and and reviews in newspapers, which I'm working on drumming up right now. I'm also trying to get some radio interviews. I'm working with a publicist and if she comes thru it will happen. Nothing as big as Bill Maher. :) I'd settle for a chance to guest post on a few Patheos blogs, and some nice reviews in rags throughout the Corridor and maybe a couple of radio shows.
 
(As an aside, I thought about mailing a copy to Glenn Beck in the hopes he would generate some controversy, but then I realized he'd just use it as a how-to guide.)  
 
I'm starting to hear from a few people who are reading it that it's mind-blowing. If that's true, and they're not just trying to make me feel good, then that means this is the type of book that will slowly spread by word of mouth. 
 
So if you like it, just keep telling people. Put an honest review on Amazon and/or GoodReads. Talk about it on social media and other exLDS forums that I don't frequent as much. (PostMo is my home forum.) Every little bit helps. :)
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 25 July 2014 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
girya
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I ordered my copy from Amazon yesterday.
 
Can't wait to read it!!!
 



   


Posted: 25 July 2014 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Yay, thanks!
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If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 26 July 2014 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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lunaverse:
Yay, thanks!
 I received my copy from Amazon!    The cover is very attractive and eye-catching.  I will post some of what speaks to me as I have time to read it.  You must be so excited Luna!  It is such a great feeling to know you are making the world a better place.  
 
Edit:  The cover is even brighter and nicer than it looks in the photo. 
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“Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.”


   


Posted: 28 July 2014 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Yay! I am excited. :)
 
On the cover, I realized a little too late that the brightness on my monitor is probably a little too high. Last minute I had to mess with the image colors on the cover because my original proofs were pretty dark. This is where I probably should have hired a graphics professional to at least do the last minute touch-ups. :) If I get time and inclination at some point I will revisit all my cover graphics. 
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 28 July 2014 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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Ex_aedibus
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I'll have to check it out.  When you are raised in Mormonism, it does an awful to shape your character and habits.   Breaking free of those is sometimes hard.  Congratulations! 

   


Posted: 28 July 2014 01:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Thanks! :)
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If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 28 July 2014 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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lunaverse:
Yay! I am excited. :)
 
On the cover, I realized a little too late that the brightness on my monitor is probably a little too high. Last minute I had to mess with the image colors on the cover because my original proofs were pretty dark. This is where I probably should have hired a graphics professional to at least do the last minute touch-ups. :) If I get time and inclination at some point I will revisit all my cover graphics. 
I am just starting to read your book, Luna, and marking things I want to find again.  I will post more about what jumps out at me latter.  I love the cover!  I would think that to have a cover that will catch the eye in a book store is a good thing.  First they spot it and then see the title and there you go!
 
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“Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.”


   


Posted: 29 July 2014 04:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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Dogzilla Joy
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Kindle edition purchased! 
 
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Formerly known as “Dogzilla.”


   


Posted: 01 August 2014 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
girya
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Progress report:
 
I received my copy from Amazon...and I'm loving this amazing book! 
 
Thank you for writing this, luna!!
 
       


   


Posted: 01 August 2014 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Aw, thanks Girya! And Strong'n'Free and Dogzilla. :)
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If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 01 August 2014 06:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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 Hey! I haven't received my copy yet!
 
 
lol  Ok I just ordered it less than an hour ago. I will wait.
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars time talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 01 August 2014 06:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]   

   
 
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Old Kinderhooker
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I just ordered my hardcopy on amazon this evening. I look forward to Reading the whole thing.
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I say unto you who are not yet free, Remember the power of “No”, for this word alone will keep you free from Morg mind control.


   


Posted: 02 August 2014 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]   

   
 
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son of perdition
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Congratulations on your new book Luna.  I got mine in mail yesterday.  Can't wait to read it. 

   


Posted: 02 August 2014 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]   

   
 
middlemarie
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just purchased it on Kobo up in Canada! I've never been a Mormon but am fascinated. 

   


Posted: 02 August 2014 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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I am loving your book Luna!  I am marking a lot of text.  I have felt a little down over how easily we humans can be manipulated.  However, we have to know these things so we can protect ourselves.  Knowledge is the power to be free.  Thank you so much for all the hard work that went into this book!  I have added reading your book to my will for my children.  Kay Burningham's is another that is on this list.   I very much hope this book becomes a best seller.  Not only would that be good for you but good for the world. 
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“Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.”


   


Posted: 02 August 2014 02:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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omigosh, thanks everyone. :D
 
Word is getting out slowly right now. I did a big self-promotion push over the last couple of weeks, but that's winding down now. Now it's all about word of mouth.
 
If you're interested in getting the word out that this book exists, please consider leaving an honest review on Amazon, GoodReads, and where ever else. All reviews (even critical ones) lend credibility to and helps other people find it. And if you have a blog or social networks, consider reviewing it there or talking about your own thoughts it inspired.
 
And I'm willing to speak, or write guest blog posts, or do podcast and radio interviews. I've reached out to various places, but I'm just an author tooting my own horn and they hear from (and ignore) lots of people like me.
 
When it comes to defense against mind control, knowing the techniques is half the battle. The other half is actively building cognitions that make open-mindedness and changing your mind more comfortable (less dissonant). I've considered a sequel, less tearing down and more building up (and less focused on Mormonism), in which I share all the cognitions I've created to help lead my mind towards more open thinking, correct conclusions, and self-actualization.. i.e. the opposite of mind control. I've already started taking notes. :)
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 02 August 2014 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]   

   
 
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Suspicious Minds
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There are so many good books from Exmo and non-exmo authors to choose from on the subject of mind control.  Putting it into the context of Mormonism is exactly what my friend Lyndon has done with his book called Standing for Something More.  
 
http://www.amazon.com/Standing-For-Something-More-Excommunication/dp/1438947437
 
Also, if you haven't already done so, I'd strongly recommend the book from author Stephen Hassan called Combatting Cult Mind Control.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113
 
Both of these are excellent resources that will also help you in your transition.  Congrats on your book Luna and hope you have a best seller!  
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“We discover in ourselves what others hide from us and we recognize in others what we hide from ourselves.” Vauvenargues (1715 - 1747)


   


Posted: 02 August 2014 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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I'm reading Lamborne's book right now. Almost done. Pretty good, but it glosses over the mind control techniques pretty quickly and doesn't get into detail about how they work. It's not as comprehensive as I'd like.
 
I didn't read Combatting Cult Mind Control, but I did read Hassan's later book, Releasing the Bonds. Honestly, I preferred Captive Hearts, Captive Minds by Tobias and Lalich (which may now be out of print) and also Recovery From Cults, a collection of essays and papers by Michael Langone. The former is the most accessible and covers the most about recovery and emotional issues, and the latter is more academic and covers a wide range of related topics.
 Signature
If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

Author of Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
Site: http://www.recoveringagency.com
Old Site: http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
Regular Blog: http://www.lunalindsey.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lunalindsey


   


Posted: 10 August 2014 06:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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I have received it. For this purpose I have come to postmo to visit through the internet. The forward is great. In the near future I am quite certain that I will be able to talk about that 3rd audience, to TBMs - most likely family, as this book becomes a matter of conversation. hehee  Thanks for your hard work in authorship Luna.
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars time talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 12 August 2014 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]   

   
 
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lunaverse
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Free2, let me know if any of it manages to reach your family, should you decide to broach the subject.
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If wickedness never was happiness, then why am I so happy?

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Posted: 12 August 2014 06:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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lunaverse:
Free2, let me know if any of it manages to reach your family, should you decide to broach the subject.
 
I shall give it a try. The proverbial elephant is no longer in its hidden pen here already. For an example of the groundwork, here is a little of my latest dealings with a tbm brother who is a previous bishop. He sent to me a few texts trying to verify my free time as in days off from work. When he knew I had last Friday off he texted if I would be interested in going to the Ogden temple dedication if he could get tickets. My response was a question of this being a "special" trip for the both of us or if he was already planning on going on said roadtrip. After he replied an honest reply that it would be a special trip for us I  returned a suggestion to take our mother because she would love such a trip. Last year I had driven my mother and an inlaw to the Ogden area for other things but ended up driving around the reconstruction site for her to oogle and awe over. lol. He didn't have much response then as his next text was a single letter...k. So then this is my response to his offer :
 
Brother. You came over (to my house) to ask questions and I unloaded the full overview. The church corporation is a hoax. I don't know what else to tell you. It is all man made and built upon illusion and sealed by delusion. Luv ya bro.That's the way it is.
 
Reply : Love you too!  ... end of "con"text-ual conversation. 
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So ashamed and embarassed I was ever a part of this crap  
Posted: 10 August 2014 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Nephi
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http://www.latterdayexpo.com/
 
L-d$,inc and the businesses that spring up associated with it to market to gullible fools. Yep, I was one of them. I am so ashamed and embarassed I was taken in and even pushed this crap.
 
Many I have met don't believe but stay in. They know it is a lie but push it on others, especially their family members. Wife, Husband, kids, cousins, relatives one and all.
 
Being honest means being so to yourself. How can someone be honest while supporting what they know to be a lie?
 
Worse yet are those who push the lies to make money off the gullible fools who buy this junk for their walls and homes and clothing. They truly believe Money is Mormonism and glory attaches to those who have more of it.
 
I see this expo for the gullible is being held in Sandy, Utah - the home of Marin County wannabees and Prozac/Valium central in the USA. A perfect place for people living a lie to market it to others.
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Posted: 10 August 2014 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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You can buy anything in this world for money!
 
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Posted: 10 August 2014 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Matter Unorganized:
You can buy anything in this world for money!
 
You can even buy an "Endowment" so you can screw other men's wives and teenage daughters. Todd Compton wrote much about the most well documented victims of Joseph's Myth.  
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Posted: 10 August 2014 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Ex_aedibus
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Nephi:
http://www.latterdayexpo.com/
 
L-d$,inc and the businesses that spring up associated with it to market to gullible fools. Yep, I was one of them. I am so ashamed and embarassed I was taken in and even pushed this crap.
 
 I am amazed to the degree to which Mormons still fall prety to all sorts of scams.  Someone I know, despite all my dire warnings to the contrary, joined the Mormon church.  She has since fallen into some multi-level marketing scam called LIFE Leadership.  One of its leaders is a man named Orrin Woodward.  
 
I hate to see this, as she is a single mom and can't afford to be foolish with her money.
 
As for feeling guilty, I suppose there are things in Mormonism that we all did that we all feel guilty about.  But what is most is important is that you woke up and walked away!   
 
 


   


Posted: 10 August 2014 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Ninon de Lenclos
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Ex_aedibus:
 
.........But what is most is important is that you woke up and walked away!   
 
 
 
 
I agree...totally and completely!!!
 
    


   


            
 
 ‹‹ Watched Dateline’s Warren Jeff’s episode with a Mormon, who told me she didn’t want to ID herself as Mormon anymore after that. lol        Salt Lake Tribune has an actual POLYGAMY newspaper section? ››  

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Watched Dateline’s Warren Jeff’s episode with a Mormon, who told me she didn’t want to ID herself as Mormon anymore after that. lol  
Posted: 10 August 2014 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Great show, here, by Dateline I watched with a Mormon friend of mine.
After wards she said, "I don't want to identify myself as Mormon any more after watching that!"
Wow.
That was easy.
Haha
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Posted: 10 August 2014 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Ex_aedibus
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Most Mormons deplore the situation in Colorado City.  However, I don't think that most appreciate the fact that they're ones who are authentically living out Mormonism as it developed in the Utah period.  So many of the doctrines and practices of the Brigham Young era, as revolting as they are, are still practiced among the FLDS and other polygamists.
 
Of course, most Mormons don't fully recognise the degree to which Joseph Smith was a sexual predator.


   


Posted: 10 August 2014 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Ex_aedibus:
Most Mormons deplore the situation in Colorado City.  However, I don't think that most appreciate the fact that they're ones who are authentically living out Mormonism as it developed in the Utah period.  So many of the doctrines and practices of the Brigham Young era, as revolting as they are, are still practiced among the FLDS and other polygamists.
 
Of course, most Mormons don't fully recognise the degree to which Joseph Smith was a sexual predator.
 
It seems to me that Warren Jeffs is a huge foot in the door for us with our TBM families and others.  All we need is to be armed with the facts--those facts on Joseph Smith can all be found in verifiable church history writings and the journals of the faithful.  It is easy to prove that Joseph Smith had exactly the same character as Warren Jeffs;  married young girls, other men's wives, sacrificed animals, made lots of prophecy that never came true, talked people out of their money, was a huge liar, had no honor or integrity--shown by his actions.  What is the difference between the two???  If anyone can point these out, I would like them.  If JS had lived a few years longer, he would have beat Warren Jeffs record of how man teenagers they married.  Why do TBMs call Warren Jeffs dispicable and Joseph Smith a profit of god?  Is it really OK for god to give a stamp of approval to Joseph Smith's behavior but not Warren Jeff's?  Is not sick--sick--no matter who is doing it? I feel this is a great tool for showing up the truth.  I will bet you--the guys at the COB are very scared of the comparison of these two.  
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Posted: 10 August 2014 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Celestial Wedgie
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Kori, cool how that happened.  The Mormon you were with had a healthy response, at least as I interpret it.
 
I thought the show was good and conveyed how much polygamy was a genuine product of old-time Mormonism.  


   


Posted: 11 August 2014 02:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Bold Wish
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Strong Free & Thankful:
Why do TBMs call Warren Jeffs dispicable and Joseph Smith a profit of god?  Is it really OK for god to give a stamp of approval to Joseph Smith's behavior but not Warren Jeff's?  Is not sick--sick--no matter who is doing it? I feel this is a great tool for showing up the truth.  I will bet you--the guys at the COB are very scared of the comparison of these two.  
 
TBM's, for the most part, are 100% clueless.  They have no idea that JS actually did the things he did.  This also means they cannot see what's really going on with D&C 132 - without the facts, they're more eager to accept added nonsense to a pot already full of it.
 
Someone published a comparison of WJ & JS.
 
Hopefully someone will create a professionally crafted documentary and the truth about JS preying on a 14 year old, 16 year olds, and women already married will be in the spotlight.  Then the question "Why does this religious organization claim this man was next to Cheezes in righteousness?"
 
If the organization, the Q15 claim to have the entire truth, then share it with the world.
 
The documentary should also include the racist comments from BY and then ask the question "So why does the organization name their university after this man?"
 
And so forth, and so on.
 
The documentary would cost a lot of money but I'd be first in line to donate my time, talents, and everything I have to promote the truth.  I can't imagine the artifact could be accomplished in less than three hours so it would be a series of documentaries.  The final segment showcasing what's happening today would show the current deceitful messages the organization still uses to control members and "investigators."
 
The financial part of the documentary would also be mind-boggling:  the organization is actually a gigantic financial corporation that's just using the old, worn out religious facade to maintain their tax exemp / higher profit status.
 
Yes, there's a phenomenal opportunity for someone to get a gigantic response if they perform the documentary well enough and choose not to sugar coat or diminish the facts.  TBM's would be TOTALLY OUTRAGED but there is zero they could do because everything - all of it - would be factual.  A well prepared documentary would be the equivavlent of dropping tons of feces into an enormous fan that splattered shit all over every nook and cranny of the organization and would forever show the world what a pathetic and total scam the organization really is.
 
 
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Posted: 11 August 2014 06:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Although the PBS documentary of a few years ago was a major WTF moment for some people and actually led to some leaving the church, in my view it was far too kind to the church. A documentary such as this would have to be on a major network, be it over the air or cable. It couldn't be on some obscure cable channel.
 
Furthermore, TSCC announced prior to the PBS doc being shown that it was a mostly fair representation. Believing members would expect a similar endorsement from their leaders for any subsequent documentary/exposé. It's a bit of a catch-22 in that if no current members or even leaders are interviewed, it will be dismissed as one-sided, but if current leaders are interviewed and the questions raised are hard-hitting and embarassing, leadership will announce in advance that members are not to watch it. We know what TBMs are like (because most of us were just that at one time) and they will not watch, because "the prophet said so."
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 11 August 2014 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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That is EXACTLY what we need--Bold Wish and Matter Unorganized--a documentary of real facts of the past, present and how this long-lasting train of lies has had a disastrous affect on millions of lives.  I will keep in mind your generous offer, Bold Wish to pass along.
 
When I feel the time is right--maybe after he finishes his current doc--I will ask my French Dr. friend if he might be interested.  He is also an American attorney--which could not hurt.  (Dual citizenship.)  I don't know if he will be interested but he is forward-thinking and I could see that he had the real facts.  Its worth a shot.
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Posted: 11 August 2014 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Bold Wish
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Strong Free & Thankful:
That is EXACTLY what we need--Bold Wish and Matter Unorganized--a documentary of real facts of the past, present and how this long-lasting train of lies has had a disastrous affect on millions of lives.  I will keep in mind your generous offer, Bold Wish to pass along.
 
When I feel the time is right--maybe after he finishes his current doc--I will ask my French Dr. friend if he might be interested.  He is also an American attorney--which could not hurt.  (Dual citizenship.)  I don't know if he will be interested but he is forward-thinking and I could see that he had the real facts.  Its worth a shot.
 
Not to threadjack but just a side note:  my son owns a video production company in NYC and if the funding was remotely feasible, I think he would do it in a heartbeat.  And just to let you know, he's not some kid playing around with youtube videos - he's done some amazing work for several famous people and organizations.  
 
The research, story, travelling, filming, editing and promotion would involve some serious time & $ - resources someone would help provide if they believed the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
It's weird being so old I have a 30 year old son but we did start early - as we were told.
 
 
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Posted: 11 August 2014 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Bold Wish:
Strong Free & Thankful:
That is EXACTLY what we need--Bold Wish and Matter Unorganized--a documentary of real facts of the past, present and how this long-lasting train of lies has had a disastrous affect on millions of lives.  I will keep in mind your generous offer, Bold Wish to pass along.
 
When I feel the time is right--maybe after he finishes his current doc--I will ask my French Dr. friend if he might be interested.  He is also an American attorney--which could not hurt.  (Dual citizenship.)  I don't know if he will be interested but he is forward-thinking and I could see that he had the real facts.  Its worth a shot.
 
Not to threadjack but just a side note:  my son owns a video production company in NYC and if the funding was remotely feasible, I think he would do it in a heartbeat.  And just to let you know, he's not some kid playing around with youtube videos - he's done some amazing work for several famous people and organizations.  
 
The research, story, travelling, filming, editing and promotion would involve some serious time & $ - resources someone would help provide if they believed the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
It's weird being so old I have a 30 year old son but we did start early - as we were told.
 
 
How much do you think it would take?  I wonder how much we could raise if we looked at the project kind of long-term.  What if we sold a product--like the T-shirts you designed and let the world know where the proceeds were going?  Free publicity and maybe a few news stories to boot!   You can raise a lot of money--a few dollars here and there.  Politicians do it all the time.  Of course, we would have to have enough money to do it right.  One important project!  Sooner or later, someone will make this documentary.  If we can make it happen sooner--we might free some stolen lives.
 
Edited to Add:  This has nothing to do with the thread and did not want to make a post of it, but I just watched Billy Joel singing "Uptown Girl" to his ex-wife--Christy Brinkley.  It was beautiful and magic--that exes can still love and respect each other like that.  Just thought maybe someone on here might want to watch it and it might make them smile!  I wish all of us could have had love instead of religion.  Love is all we ever needed.
 
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Posted: 12 August 2014 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Kori
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Bold Wish:
Strong Free & Thankful:
Why do TBMs call Warren Jeffs dispicable and Joseph Smith a profit of god?  Is it really OK for god to give a stamp of approval to Joseph Smith's behavior but not Warren Jeff's?  Is not sick--sick--no matter who is doing it? I feel this is a great tool for showing up the truth.  I will bet you--the guys at the COB are very scared of the comparison of these two.  
 
TBM's, for the most part, are 100% clueless.  They have no idea that JS actually did the things he did.  This also means they cannot see what's really going on with D&C 132 - without the facts, they're more eager to accept added nonsense to a pot already full of it.
 
Someone published a comparison of WJ & JS.
 
Mormon Infographics to the rescue!!!
 I like the little box under "Other Men's Wives" ^^^ that says "Adultery" per D&C 132:61
But it should say, "According to the LAW of the Priesthood."
A good question to ask Mormons anywhere, any time is, "Do you believe in the LAW of the Priesthood?" 
99.9% of them will have no clue what you're talking about.
The other .1% will lie in order to protect their "PRofit" who's praises they've been brainwashed to sing, in the face of any and all opposition. 
Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man! 
Reason, history, facts, evidence, all count as 'opposition' to Mormons.
Like Mormons always say, "Whenever you kick Mormonism, you kick it upstairs."
When the boys from South Park do a parody of The Book of Mormon, it takes Broadway and the world by storm, what does the Mormon church do?
They buy a 2 page spread advertising the Mormon church in every playbill across the country. What would Muslims do if the South Park Boys did, "The Q'uran on Broadway" 
 
H
opefully someone will create a professionally crafted documentary and the truth about JS preying on a 14 year old, 16 year olds, and women already married will be in the spotlight.  Then the question "Why does this religious organization claim this man was next to Cheezes in righteousness?"
 
If the organization, the Q15 claim to have the entire truth, then share it with the world.
 
The documentary should also include the racist comments from BY and then ask the question "So why does the organization name their university after this man?"
 
And so forth, and so on.
 
The documentary would cost a lot of money but I'd be first in line to donate my time, talents, and everything I have to promote the truth.  I can't imagine the artifact could be accomplished in less than three hours so it would be a series of documentaries.  The final segment showcasing what's happening today would show the current deceitful messages the organization still uses to control members and "investigators."
 
The financial part of the documentary would also be mind-boggling:  the organization is actually a gigantic financial corporation that's just using the old, worn out religious facade to maintain their tax exemp / higher profit status.
 
Yes, there's a phenomenal opportunity for someone to get a gigantic response if they perform the documentary well enough and choose not to sugar coat or diminish the facts.  TBM's would be TOTALLY OUTRAGED but there is zero they could do because everything - all of it - would be factual.  A well prepared documentary would be the equivavlent of dropping tons of feces into an enormous fan that splattered shit all over every nook and cranny of the organization and would forever show the world what a pathetic and total scam the organization really is.
 
 
 
 
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Posted: 12 August 2014 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Thanks Kori!  I remembered it was you who had posted this great chart.  I have not been able to copy it as half of it cuts off.  I think I downloaded it at one time from the authors.  Yes, we really, really need this doc.  In reading Luna's book on mind control, she tells of how one religious group--when their stated doomsday arrived and nothing happened--they became so rabid in their preaching that they were highly successful in conversions.  It might have been in Holland.  They ended up converting a large portion of the nation.   When people have a lot of other people believing the same thing--no matter how crazy--they are able to keep believing.  What I am getting at is when the knowledge is mainstream that Joseph Smith was almost the same person as Warren Jeffs and Brigham Young was also a major sicko--it will be much more difficult for TBMs to hide in their head from the truth.  When we have that documentary and TBM's friends are asking them why they are teaching their children child molestors, liars and murderers are prophets of god--the TBM's excuse of it being "anti mormon lies" will no longer fly.  I am thinking many eyes will open.
 
With all the talented people on here who are willing to give whatever is needed of their skills, knowledge, and time--it will be one awesome documentary and perhaps a gold standard of spreading the truth--kind of like Jeremy's CES letter.  All we have to figure out is how to get the money and who will take on the job of coordinating it all.  I would love to do it--but I don't have the time to spare at the moment and of course we need someone who has made a documentary before.  I don't see what would stop us from beginning to gather the money.  I wonder if we would need a foundation that is already set up and is bonded to act as treasurer?  The only thing that I know that I could really do is ask my friend who is making the documentary right now if he might be interested in making this one later.  I am certain we have lots of choices, perhaps Bold Wish's son.  Sounds like we need to figure out how to get the money and who is going to be responsible for the safe-keeping of the money.
 
 Edited to Add:  I would not mind being on a board to help brainstorm and make decisions about this documentary.  I would take the time for that.
 
 
 
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