Tuesday, May 26, 2015
JW Survey articles
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Misha Anouk says:
May 5, 2015 at 5:46 am
As I wrote on Facebook: This is so not the organization anymore I was born into. It’s getting more and more pathetic every month.
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William Roberts says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:35 am
That is so true. We had respect for Brother Knorr. The org. seemed to have a little dignity. Could have been a false front but, at least it had that image.
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Man from the lions pit says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:20 pm
The “world is changing” Misha ! I can only agree with u.
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Charles Costante says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:09 am
“Oleaginous” is the word I would use to describe this man. The exaggerated mouth, eyebrow, hand and arm movements are so fake! You’d think he was speaking to a bunch of five-year-olds. I want to vomit!
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JJ says:
May 5, 2015 at 7:51 am
I agree!!!
Someone said that Steven Lett was, “A clown with no make-up” and I don’t think that I could improve upon that. What a moron he is.
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Jill Hileman says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:34 am
well said
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KG says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:24 pm
Thank you! I was thinking as I was watching, that just seeing his exaggerated expressions makes me extremely angry! He just seems so pompous, it makes me ill.
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Paul Pearson says:
May 5, 2015 at 5:10 pm
The way Lett acts, gestures and speaks in this video shows just how much contempt and condescension he has towards the rank-and-file… let alone the “worldies.”
Oh well, at least it looks like he hocked his pinky ring.
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danman says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:13 am
Misha nailed it. This head bobbing, supercilious, Lett is the epitome of what years of cult indoctrination will produce. Every elder around the world simply will be drooling over attaining such a position, now they have tv aspirations, as well as lording it over the flock!!
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William Roberts says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:30 am
Thank goodness I can sit on the sidelines and laugh at their antics. No guilt about not pouring my money down the rat hole.
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Jack says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:30 am
Our congregation just slashed the amount they were sending the the branch by $1,000.00. The funny part is, they had a loan too that just started! They went way under the suggestion of keeping it the same or more!
We are at a loss each month, donations have dried up. I think people are starting to vote with their wallets. Plus, you discourage everyone from working, giving up good paying jobs etc… and then complain that they aren’t donation enough? You can’t take blood from a rock!
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Charles Huff says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:01 pm
How do you know this Jack? Are you an elder still?
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:33 am
Great article! A big part of expenditures for the Warwick project involve the purchase of a LUXURY condominium complex that was reported to cost $57,000,000. Sources tell me that the condos are very luxe indeed and that the bethelites are all vying for their room in the complex. Aside from that purchase, I actually believe that Warwick could be constructed much cheaper using outside labor rather than volunteers. The cost of housing, feeding, transporting, administration work, etc. for using volunteers far exceeds the cost of employees caring for the work. This project requires volunteers because of the ambitious schedule and the need to claim that “it was only by Jehovah’s hand”. My theory is that projects using volunteer labor will be greatly reduced in the coming years because of the great cost involved. An example of this is the South Africa branch expansion which has been completely contracted out. The organization is bloated with volunteers that are completely unnecessary except for bragging rights. They would need much, much less people, buildings, etc. if they would just have salaried employees that cared for their own needs. I worked at the Wallkill complex and noted that the 300 workers that actually produced the literature in shipping, bindery and printing required about 900 people in support roles…. To be continued
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Searcher says:
May 5, 2015 at 10:07 am
I believe this is the very same reason the Soviet Union collapsed. Socialism doesn’t work because there is no incentive for an ordinary person to succeed or manage for themselves; all the thinking is done for you and all the work is done by you with no real compensation.
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 12:05 pm
Soviet Union is a very accurate description on a couple different levels.
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:56 am
While it is true that Bethelites are a form of slave labor, they are not cheap to maintain. Think of the cost of heating/ cooling, electricity, water and utilities for all of the residential buildings. There is the food cost which involves tons of food every week. Taking only Wallkill into consideration, imagine the cost of 400 pounds of salmon or 800 pounds of chicken for one lunch and so on. Bethelites also receive medical attention and dental work, laundry services and other personal service. They receive a monthly stipend, yearly PEA – personal expense account that is several hundred dollars, AEA – automobile expense account that reimburses them for each mile driven for congregation activities, etc. A very conservative figure that was thrown around while I was serving at Bethel was $20-30,000 a year per Bethelite. Let’s do some math just involving Wallkill – using conservative figures (these are going back a couple of years but I feel the principles are applicable) 1200 bethelites- 300 doing the actual printery work- 900 in support roles. 900 support bethelites cost $20K a year equaling $18,000,000 – divide that by the 300 actually doing the essential work and it comes to- $60,000 a year – not a bad wage to pay an employee. This of course is solely operating expense which doesn’t include building costs, etc. Bethel could employee people for $40,000 a year and do pretty well (leaving a $6,000,000 surplus towards the building) while at the same time providing much needed jobs for the economy but then… Jehovah’s hand and wonderful Bethel stories would disappear…. The great thing is that the GB is so deluded that they will continue to overspend and think that Jehovah will keep them afloat but reality will catch up to them eventually.
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 7:10 am
Sorry everyone! I have diarrhea of the mouth again. This just upsets me vey much and I have to vent. Two quick things- 1. Warwick is basically a lakefront resort and every room has a balcony. How’s that for keeping a simple eye?
2. While I am a humanist at this point in my life, I still get upset by the misuse of scriptures. Lett mentioned the “equalizing” – do they really think Paul was talking about buildings? The money in the first century was given directly to the people who needed it, not in the form of a Kingdom Hall but in food and sustenance. Give me a break. Do you think they need more Kingdom Halls in Africa or food and personal housing? Jeez… “RTO’s cost a million dollars or more in other countries?” Why? Can’t somebody translate from anywhere they can access the internet and a computer? Why not send the $5000 in needed equipment and use the remaining money to build people houses they can live in and some to work out of instead of building/ buying mansions for a small team of translators? So dumb…
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JJ says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:07 am
Don’t be sorry!
You made some really excellent and interesting points!
I know so many brothers and sisters who would cut off their own appendages to get ‘in’ as a construction volunteer, or some other full-time assignment! Then these people hope and trust that Jehovah’s Organiztion (Mother) will look after their every need right on into the paradise. They will be in for a rude shock when it financially tumbles down on them.
McFair, I probably shouldn’t throw around names but did you know Todd Hockensmith, Randy Carlson, or Dustin Fox at WTF?
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:36 am
Thanks for mentioning the theocratic retirement plan. The names you have thrown around are familiar to me. I’m sure they would all appreciate the shout out on JW Survey :-)
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Man from the lions pit says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:18 pm
Thanks for your perspective MrFair !
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Thinking of leaving says:
May 5, 2015 at 7:21 am
I have a friend who works in the bethel in NY and I directly asked her if Wt was having financial difficulties. All though she had no hard hard facts or numbers she was able to confirm to me that these rumours were floating around bethel. Another interesting comment she made was that due to the huge assets in real estate would probably see them out. Looks like her words have proved true. I think the fact she even knew about it and could confirm that rumours were circulating right at the heart of the organisation is telling.
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Jill Hileman says:
May 5, 2015 at 7:35 am
I am utterly nauseated by this accounting of the JW money-grubbing deceit. My family is permanently demolished, in large part, by this religion.
There is no punishment equal to the harm they cause to real people and the selfish motivations they ascribe.
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JJ says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:03 am
Operating Shortfall is business parlance for “DANGER, DANGER!” You cannot keep operating at a loss. It will take you under very quickly and I’m sure that the bean-counters even in JW-land can’t figure that out.
Now what I’m wondering, unless a miracle happens, the GB must know when the ship will sink to the ‘point of no return’. Do the GB and other ‘heavies’ in Bethel have an escape plan prepared for themselves?!? Are they starting to stash money in offshore accounts, are they converting real estate into precious metals or diamonds so that they can jet off like some displaced dictators?
There must be a cut off line somewhere in the hierarchy and there will be some disgruntled underlings who are not included in the escape pod. (When Dr. Evil was getting away he closed the door on No. 2. “There are 2 seats in there!” Dr. Evil replies, “I like to put my feet up.”)
This may get interesting!
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JJ says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:07 am
Arg! I meant to say that the bean-counters CAN figure that out, not can’t.
I wish we could correct out posts.
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Jill Hileman says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:31 am
As a side note, huge props to Cedars for stifling the automatic gag reflex from listening to these…episodes. Two minutes was my limit.
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David says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:51 am
Lett is consistent with the usual JW style of half truths.
I guess they are following a different Jesus. When I read the Bible I cannot see a Jesus so concerned about building huge real estate. Lett selects unrelated scriptures to support their old distorted truth. We must worship God in spirit and truth, God does not need all those buildings, they are merely used to brainwash people. And please Lett do not judge other religions saying that they all coerce or that they are all false form of worship. Respect other as you want respect for yourself, Charlatan!
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Erik says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:11 pm
That is so true. Jesus never did a building work, did he?
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John Baptist says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:56 am
After reading this excellent article and trying to put myself through listening to such a dramatized video I came to several conclusions.
1) The WTBS has now joined the electric church format of asking for money and I would bet my life on it that it is going to increase as time goes on.
2) This supposed Anointed leader is a poor B actor who knows himself how much he is lying in order to get what he wants.
3) If a fellow member views this video they really either have to be so deluded into believing this rant of lies or their insides are really starting to boil over wondering what has truly happened to their organization and how they have been really moving backwards these days.
4) With their new spiffy broadcast room and videos and revolving world they are no different then any other evangelical church airing on TV.
5) Someone please get me a Alka-Seltzer after viewing these videos. This DUDE is really scary to watch.
P.S Can someone bring in the real Clowns to Cheer me up now. lol
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avaddohn94 says:
May 5, 2015 at 9:08 am
I wonder why he decided (or was told) not to wear his famous pinky ring this time.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/lcpJZmXj6tKUI1keJXGy-agkRFiN9DX5u7_VGdl6e1M06IiBL6BEMI10mImxGLEiXDxR9E14vuTbRL2o2Gkcxzek=s580
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avaddohn94 says:
May 5, 2015 at 9:27 am
I can already imagine the stories we’ll start hearing soon about how “even poor brother Lett had to sell his pinky ring because of our bad finances”… Like I said somewhere else, I wonder if Samuel Herd will get rid of his flashy Rolex-lnvicta watch next time he’s in charge of the broadcasting!
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Queen Elsa says:
May 5, 2015 at 10:49 am
Just curious…. Was it a Rolex or Invicta? Invitas are less than $100…
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avaddohn94 says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:10 am
Whether it was a Rolex or an Invicta, their own publications and explanations regarding 1 John 2:16 condemned his exhibition (w83 11/15 p. 17-18 §12).
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Queen Elsa says:
May 5, 2015 at 12:20 pm
Actually, I think it does matter. I wouldn’t want to falsely accuse someone of being pretentiousness and also if it wasn’t a Rolex, there’s a huge difference in price…
Man from the lions pit says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:17 pm
It’s just better PR management .It looks to stupid to ask about money and have one extra gold “pinky” ring on your hand :-) these “poor bros” are learning as they go…like rest of us :-)
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David says:
May 5, 2015 at 9:15 am
2 Corinthians 8:14 is not talking about giving to extend the real estate of an organization is talking about the richer to help the starving, the poorer persons.
If Lett interprets the scripture differently it means that he is either a retarded or he lies to lie deliberately.
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Searcher says:
May 5, 2015 at 10:49 am
Oh boy! First, does Lett really know how stupid he looks when giving a speech?! He acts like he’s reading a “verwie scarwie storwie” to a bunch of kindergarteners. I wonder if he talks to his wife or people on the street like that?
Next, this is the start of the death-throws of a failing organization. When the begging starts, it won’t end until the last penny is extracted from the masses and used up. The GB has really painted themselves into a corner this time. They have limited the income potential of their “flock” by asking for “Pioneer” time and placing damnation on higher education. They have set up a socialistic style of support organization in NY as pointed out by MrFair, that is only going to get more and more expensive to maintain. The GB dolts can’t do math, because their too busy rewriting the bible and rewriting their history. Or maybe they didn’t get out of remedial math in school because they shunned higher education. Well, I digress… I wish I could say this is going to get entertaining to watch, but the unfortunate underlings in the ‘greater crowd’ are the ones that will get it in the end.
Wasn’t it Jesus that saw the Pharisees were sheering the flock and loading them up with rules and regulations? These GB leaders are a real piece of work!!! How can they live in their skin!!!
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ScotWm says:
May 5, 2015 at 10:59 am
RE: “If the Governing Body is spending more money than they are receiving from the kindness and generosity of Witnesses, who are already hard-pressed as a result of the insane and immoral prohibition on higher education…”
The Governing Body has no problem with those seeking higher education and the increased income that it provides. Wealthy doctors, lawyers and business executives are always welcome, provided they obtained their college degrees prior to coming into the “truth.”
On the other hand, those who are born into the organization are shamed into quitting school as soon as possible and encouraged to endure life with marginal job skills and low income.
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:41 am
What happens when seven undereducated Jehovah’s Witnesses get handed a corporation that manages hundreds of millions of dollars of funds and assets? Ta-da! They go bankrupt! That’s what happens when your fiscal policy is based on Matthew 6:25-33!
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anonymous says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:47 am
I am so glad that I am out the outside looking in now from a different perspective than a year ago. A year ago I would listened to this talk and felt so guilty about not giving enough and would have felt that I would have to up my donation to the Society every month. Now I see it for what it really is, which is a money making scam to increase their real estate portfolio and nothing else.
Lett as much as admitted that their little “scheme” to try and trick the followers into thinking that their loans were paid off but then the rest of the letter that the elders were not to read to the congregations were to trick them keep paying off those “paid off” loans forever backfired and instead of tricking the followers into giving more money and forever, made the rank and file think that they were rolling in dough instead. Rich!!! That brings a smile to my face.
One of the elders asked me when they came to visit what would happen if the Society went under and I know what would happen. The Watchtower would be the richest organization on the face of the earth with all that it owns and got with all free gullible labor thinking they were saving the world but in reality just making the Society rich. They are all a bunch of Bernie Madoff’s in sheep’s clothing.
The Governing Body can’t give an hour long talk without lie after lie. Even that little scene where a brother was asked to work on Sunday mornings didn’t make an ounce of sense. The brother was worried how he was going to support his family if he lost his job and he could have gone to another Sunday meeting at night in a different Kingdom Hall and they said he kept looking for work and looking for work and nothing happened (obviously he was working on Sunday mornings) because of his limited schooling and then he got unemployment insurance and while he was still looking for work, he pioneered with that time off.
First off, if you are getting unemployment insurance, either you were laid off (employer didn’t have work for him anymore) or he had to prove he was fired unfairly. If you quit a job, you can’t get unemployment insurance so if he got “fired” for not showing up for work, he wouldn’t have gotten unemployment insurance and wasn’t sacrificing anything and and if he “quit” then he wasn’t “sacrificing” anything and wouldn’t have gotten unemployment insurance so long story short, he got laid off. So, with the money he was collecting to support his family while he was laid off, he was instead using that money to go in service. It costs money to go in service and you don’t get that much for unemployment insurance. How did his family survive? Did his wife work? They leave out so much out of those stupid little scenarios that it has to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up with examples of people giving of their “valuable” things. What they were really trying to say is that no matter how poor or no matter how desperate your situation is, you should go in service and give whatever money you have to the organization, even if it means your family goes without necessary provisions.
When the Israelites were in the wilderness, they were to give of their gold and silver and jewels and donate their sheep and cattle to the sanctuary for the maintenance of Aaron and his sons serving at the tent of meeting. Most of the stuff they “donated” was burnt up as sacrifices to God. They also “donated” 2 sheep every day and a bull. These people were supposedly unpaid slaves who left Egypt. Does anybody ever wonder how these people walked out of Egypt with all those animals and gold and silver and jewels if all they were was unpaid slave labor to the Egyptians and how did they provide for all those animals when they were in the desert? Did all those animals also eat manna? That is one of the examples Stephen Lett was talking about when it came to donating was what the Israelites provided to the temple sanctuary while they were in the wilderness. Do they even read their Bibles????
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Swallowtail says:
May 5, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Hey you know what would have helped their financial crises? Not being idiots when it came to child predators. That would have negated a lot of lawsuits they are currently dealing with and WILL continue to deal with. But hey, what do I know.
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Yvonne says:
May 5, 2015 at 12:34 pm
The GB did not even let the faithful sheep know that donations are being used to pay off lawsuits for child sexual abuse cases. S Lett is the G B member that said the victims are liars and apostates with an agenda. I hate watching these wolfs in sheep covering. Each month is getting harder and harder to watch them, but I have to keep up to date until I am completely out. I keep hope my comments will wake somebody up. God I hate Jw.Org.
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Swallowtail says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:09 pm
I agree with you Yvonne. Wolves in Sheep’s clothing they are. I have a sneaking suspicion they aren’t as bad off as they claim. With the recent lawsuits they are probably finding ways to hide money so as to keep from having to pay out. We already know with the lawyers they have at their disposal,they are professionals at twisting the law to suit their aims. I somehow imagine a “special volunteer committee” was organized to help them empty old coffee cans so they could stuff wads of cash in them, and then they hide the cans of cash in a vault in the shape of a pyramid somewhere just to keep the “secular authorities” away from it. Nothing would surprise me.
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Gareth says:
May 5, 2015 at 12:15 pm
With a ratio of 900 support people to 300 production people; I wonder what all those supporting people are doing?? So many people needed to answer the phone and letters, do the laundry and the bathrooms etc??
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 12:30 pm
It’s a total government style bureaucracy. You have people working in shoe repair, sewing, hairdressers, barbers, receptionist, landscapers, painters, cleaning, housekeeping, transportation drivers, farmers, cooks, waiters, laundry, dry cleaning, carpenters, water treatment plant workers and the list of laborers continues. The offices are bloated with people that handle: rooming, menu planning, picking finishes,
organizing labor, assigning morning worship and
watchtower comments, personnel, judicial matters,
gathering contributions from the bethel contribution boxes, keeping inventory on old literature and the bethel libraries and on and on. It’s a black hole – workers require more workers.
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Gareth says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Wowser. They have downsized the number of branch offices; I guess they will have to start downsizing on people and all these various utilities too? Also, they are sooo proud of their many languages stuff is translated to, it seems hard to imagine they will allow this number to decrease. But it could be their downfall.
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MrFair says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:32 pm
I would describe their current situation in a word: unsustainable. Cuts are coming and they will have to scale back contrary to what Lett said in his propaganda talk. Hopefully so many cuts will be made that they will disappear up their own black hole.
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Sardec says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:28 pm
What was that C.T. Russell said about when the Org has to start begging for money? That they would lose God’s favor and should just disband? Yeah, I thought so.
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Gareth says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Interesting is that although the number of branches has decreased, the number of bethelites has increased; between 5 and 10% per year even. E.g. a two-thousand increase in the 2013 to 2014 report (22,719 to 24,711). If every person costs the Society approx. $20,000 then this alone is $500 million per year! In many countries the costs of living will be lower, so maybe this figure is a bit high, but half this is still quite a lot.
BTW: the autocue reading this time is exceptionally bad! Almost stopping half-sentence sometimes. Shameful!
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Jake says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:42 pm
It was better when the governing body remained somewhat mysterious – walking the halls of convention centers like celebrities as witnesses aligned themselves for the opportunity to shake their hands. They are NOT ready for their close-up. They all come across as self-righteous, condescending, and evil old men. I haven’t been associated with the congregation for over six years, but my family is still there. It hurts that they are choosing this over a close relationship with me, and it boggles my mind that they can accept this drivel as “truth.” Since regularly visiting this site, I have hoped for their own spiritual enlightenment to foster, but my dad still sends me day texts and my mom recent issues of the Watchtower and Awake… something tells me, even if the organization is to fall due to poor economic handling, they will turn it around and say that Satan’s world is trying to snuff out true worship… and it will fortify some of them even more. There is nothing attractive about self delusion.
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Charles Huff says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:17 pm
Much love man, I know what you mean.
I know my dad’s a smart man, he’s an elder reading this tripe. How the hell can he not see through this ruse?
I wonder how long they are going to be able to look at us and continue to act as if we don’t know this BS is over. Do they really think they’re rolling us at this point, are they really fooled themselves?
It drives me crazy trying to understand this. LOL
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Gorby says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:51 pm
My wife and I watched the tv.jw.org episode and are still confused about the so called half truths and double speech. You can see Lett is a liar. Making 1 bilion real estate profit and still it’s not enough. It hurts seeing this and knowing our 5 generation JW family will turn in their grave. We are fading for 5 years now and in this time the believe went unrecognizable. We hope the rank-and-file JW’s will have a wake up call now. I’m still shocked! What a liars.
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Gorby says:
May 5, 2015 at 1:54 pm
And the donation song is an absolute shock! Have they become crazy?!? Creditcard donation inserted. It’s propaganda. It’s a sect. We were part of it. And I have to say, from younger years something deep inside told me it was all wrong.
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:01 pm
@Sardec . Good comment about Charles taze Russell ‘ when the Watchtower has to ask for money it should STOP PUBLICATION ‘ This statement has been Quoted numerous times over the years !
WELL STEPHEN LETTS me Old Chum … The Game is up!! This Latest Governing Body Lecture was Disgustingly CRINGEWORTHY!!
Jesus Christ had NOWHERE to LAY his HEAD & the Apostle Paul ( original Governing Body)was a TENTMAKER SO AS NOT To be a BURDEN on the Brothers !!!
MY ADVICE STEPHEN ‘me old buddy’ is GET A FLIPPING REAL JOB & Stop SPONGING off Little Children & Old Ladies!!! &Pay Taxes like the rest of us .& In the Video they mentioned all the SCHOOLS at Patterson & Elsewhere!! .. Well Jesus condemned the Scribes & Pharisees for these Schools !! The Bible was Enough & the first century Christians met in houses NOT FANCY POSH BUILDINGS with Expensive TV & COMPUTER SCREENS!!
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avaddohn94 says:
May 5, 2015 at 2:47 pm
@Queen Elsa, I agree with you. However, if you have the opportunity, take a look at the reference mentioned above (w83 11/15). As for the differences in prices, I’m so aware that I myself mentioned both possibilities in my initial post.
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Queen Elsa says:
May 6, 2015 at 1:01 am
I haven’t read the article and have no desire to do because I can already hear the words…let me guess… We don’t want to appear materialistic, even though we may have the money… Something to that effect, ball park range?
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avaddohn94 says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:58 am
Sort of. It basically says in paragraph 12 that you don’t need to wear the real thing and that even cheap things may be acquired to make a “showy display”.
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Criticus says:
May 5, 2015 at 2:55 pm
Hi fellas,
I am not going to comment on Lett’s rebarbative “faceworks” & repulsive body lang any longer, this horse has so been beaten to death, it’s getting boooring (let his eyebrows slip out of his face entirely), and it’s not really the most important thing, but the actual CONTENT of his verbal effusions is.
As to him asking for donations: Here speaks a bigheaded cocky, conceited, pompous, self-important and vain man who…
… does not hold a salaried position himself;
… hasn’t held one for several decades, or a VERY LONG time by now;
… hence, is living on the back of his generous bro’s and sis’s in absolute luxury and extravagance (I know, for I have “served” at various WTS-branches myself, and I do know first hand what’s going on as regards “privileges” for the “higher ranks” with lots of seniority);
… who is blowing those bro’s and sis’s donations for marbled Bethel entrance halls, stuccoed dining halls, teak wood paneled offices, oak desks, park-like gardens (paradises) around their top-shelf palaces;
… those bro’s and sis’s cranking out the “voluntary donations” are constantly being told not to pursue higher edu, nor a professional career, bec. this is “materialistic and selfish”;
… so they have to be content with whatever low-paying, low-life job they can get;
… and yet, they are “invited” to “donate freely”; rather, the “PRIVILEGE” to donate” (so much as to redefining notions) is “graciously being extended” to them, and they should wallow in dust out of sheer thankfulness for being blessed with such an inestimable “privilege” like emptying their pockets for WTS and its governing central committee’s members’ lavish life style.
All of this is so unreal, it’s not funny anymore. Truly, this is not the “old” WTS any more (which never was quite lovable, to say the least). Knorr, or the drinking, big-paunched Judge, were hard, harsh, unpleasant, dislikable, ossified, extremely power-craving individuals to whom only one law – their own – mattered and who had no qualms to ruin anyone who dared to stand in their path. The “scholarly” Freddy Franz was tremendously self-opinionated ; his personal views and speculations (“No new anointed after 1935″; 1975 etc.) became creeds binding upon every “faithful” JW (“If you don’t believe that HM is coming in 1975 you are not a JW!”). Still, looking back, I can’t help but agree that to some extent, I somehow “like” the “old” WTS better than those ham actors of the present. This is not going to continue well for them for too long now – “something” is bound to happen.
IMHO
Criticus
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:16 pm
@Criticus . Your Comments are quite Brilliantly put& you are right this IS NOT FUNNY Anymore. Good hearted genuine brothers& sisters are being DUPED & CONNED out of their TIME& hard earned MONEY!! It is Sickening . The LIES Stephen Lett told in this latest GB Lecture is Blatant. I think If you are going to ask for DONATIONS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS we all Deserve some PROPER ACCOUNTING FIGURES to see WHERE are the BILLIONS going . Just a SIMPLE ‘INCOMINGS & OUTGOINGS’ Expenditure for a start . Then Let us all have a PROPER VOTE how our Donations are Spent without feeling we are viewed as APOSTATE if we vote against!! Obviously the GB have badly handled our money that is why they are begging for money!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Just to say STANLEY HALLS where the AGM is held every year is DISGUSTING in its OPPULENCE & so is the NEW GB HEADQUARTERS at WARWICK which will be finished in 2017 & now we have the 5 year MASTERPLANs for Increased a Kingdom Hall Building & Maintenance plus all the support staff & RTO buildings at 1 to 2 Million dollars each Plus 6000 Bethel workers & Circuit overseers,Missionaries,Special Pioneers, Cleaners, cooks, ancillary workers etc & THEN The GB TELL us to get a part time job & pioneer which means we have LESS FUNDS to DONATE?? The GB are FINANCIAL MORONS!! The ORGANISATION Cannot be Sustained ESPECIALLY the COST of RUNNING a TV STATION & JW.ORG. On top of all this other financial commitment. ADD to all this The Paedophilia LAWSUITS the GB are facing with MILLIONS bring LOST in COURT CASES & LAWYERS FEES!! Any SIMPLE ECONOMICS STUDENT could see this is FINANCIAL ARMAGEDDON for the GB!! UTTER ECONOMIC MADNESS!!they Deserve to suffer as they have made millions suffer with their stupid prophecies!!
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gary gibson says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:20 pm
There throats are cut, be patient and wait for them to bleed out.
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Ted says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:24 pm
If there was an all powerful God backing this mob, they wouldn’t need
to put the bite on people, known to be in a very low income bracket
due to constant pressure not to put down a stake in this, ” soon to end
system”.
In proof, I’ve done what they are expert at, and farmed a couple of
unrelated scriptures from the book they use to dupe and COERCE
people. with.
In Deut, 15:6 , The Israelite God JHVH promised, “You will lend to
many nations, but will borrow from none”. It’s apparent that pledge is not
carried over to Lett and his associates.
Leaping forward now to John, 14:13, Jesus the son of JHVH. said,
“WHATEVER you ask in my name, that I will do”. With such an
unequivocal statement as that there’s no need to beg from the poor.
If J and J are with them, all they have to do is pray for money.
I think their support is drying up because it’s becoming evident that they
are not God’s org, and that while proclaiming the imminent end of this
world, they are planning for a long term future in “This System”.
As seen in the planned fabulous new head quarters with a recreation
facility that includes a ball court, and Olympic size swimming pool.
Dig deep brothers, at lest you know where your money’s going.
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rob says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:26 pm
I am actually quite shocked that an admission of imperfection has been made by the powers that be within this organization.
By stating that they are facing a financial shortfall – they are in effect admitting that they failing and that things are not perfect at Bethel –
In my opinion this is a pivotal moment in the history of the witness religion. I remember assembly after assembly hearing about how great everything was at Bethel and how Jehovah was directing this organization and that this organization was God’s channel to bring the true religion to mankind and that it was perfect and could not be questioned.
I think that there are now going to be a plethora of questions.
Not sure how they can say with a straight face (all weird face gestures by Lett aside) that Jehovah is directing an organization that cannot balance their income and expense ledger.
In my opinion God is far removed from this religion.
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:46 pm
There have been NUMEROUS COMMENTS about the SUBTLE ??? GESTURES & FACIAL TWITCHES of Stephen LETTS !! I would be TWITCHY if DEEP DOWN me old mate STEVE Knows the GAME is Up my Son !! He Is One DESPERATE TV EVANGELIST BEGGING for MONEY & He can see his OPPULENT & LUXURIOUS Lifestyle coming to an end. He EVEN Took off his PINKY RING for this Video . !! I think when you are BEGGING for Money you CANNOT be FLASHING Too Much JEWELLERY Around!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:54 pm
@rob . I think you are right . This is a PIVOTAL MOMENT since 1879 when this religion was started. Reminds me of BETH SARIM & Rutherfords 10 room mansion & his property on Staten Island & flat at Bethel& 2 Expensive Cadillac s . His Excellent Lawyer OLIN ZmOYLE Resigned & WON the Lawsuit against Rutherford stating the OBSCENITY of the POVERTY of the Bethel Workers in Contrast with the President of the Watchtower!! JESUS or Paul or any Apostle would NOT HAVE BEHAVED LIKE THIS!! OBSCENE!!!
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kat says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:48 pm
I think the internet is having a tremendous impact on the org, and they probably view sites to get feed back, notice how Lett made the point that the no one is getting rich from the donations and all money is spent on WWW (lies) I think that donations could be way down and their scam of monthly pledges is not working, hopefully this is because many JW are waking up.
The elders get to see all the letter from the GB so they are in the know, surely they must realise after viewing this that Lett is lying, they would have to know about the child abuse cases and money having to be paid out, and what of that Loch running of and costing the donators millions of dollars, surely if there are any decent elders they would be waking up, but sadly most are trapped with family and the GB has this hanging over most JW.
I’m hoping there will be a mass exodus, I do know of families that are no longer going to meetings, so if the head of the family wakes up and can help the rest we can have whole families leaving this would be ideal.
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:57 pm
Rutherfords Lawyer was OLIN MOYLE. Apologies for the Misspelling!
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 4:06 pm
@Mr Fair. Enjoyed all your comments. Excellent ANALYSIS of the Downfall of the GB Very Shortly!! I give them 5 years at the most for Financial Armageddon UNLESS the REAL ARMAGEDDON comes first ???
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Grace says:
May 5, 2015 at 3:59 pm
I notice that they have a picture of the heavens in the background when they do their talks to make them look so heavenly & authoritative like they’re speaking down from up high. It’s amusing when you wake up & see the blatant propaganda stunts that they use to suck people in.
If they do get to the point of going down in a heap of smoke, I will give one of those long claps that we used to give at the conventions when one of the important bethelites would bless us with one of his talks.
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 4:20 pm
@Stephen LETTS !! My Advice to you my DEAR ANOINTED BROTHER is in the Words of Jesus Christ at Matthew 19v21 which says GO SELL YOUR BELONGINGS & GIVE TO THE POOR!!
You ,Stephen do remember?? Jesus your Role Model … I’m sure you do Stevie & how about Acts 17v24 ‘ the Lord of Heaven & Earth doesn’t dwell in hand made Temples’… & Luke 12v18 about the stupidness of building bigger Storehouses … WHO MENTIONED ‘Warwick,Walkill,& Patterson???
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chatpal says:
May 5, 2015 at 5:03 pm
I found it very disturbing when he used the phrases
‘the masters resources’
and ‘Jehovah’s money’.
surely God would not approve of wasting hard earned money, [earned by low wage workers] operating an expensive unnecessary tv streaming channel a public web site, or to operate a huge facility full of volunteer workers to construct ‘temples’ to honor an organization. Or to require congregations to use important funds to buy large tv screens to stream in this unneeded repetitive nonsense . where pray tell, is the humility? the meekness, the kindness, the self respect? the satying out of the limelight? All I see is the boastful desire to make themselves known, no matter the collateral damage that will ensue. yes they stand to be seen alright, for what they are, self important blasphemers.
watching that man creeps me out, its like hes some touchy feely grandpa putting on a huge[really bad] act to come across as some nice and friendly all knowing story teller. I see this man border lining on dementia and cannot believe the organization allows him to be seen by the public as a representative of them. its outright embarrassing not only for him, but for anyone who sits and watches these videos.
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chatpal says:
May 5, 2015 at 5:05 pm
i forgot to add, jehovah apparently has not ‘blessed’ them enough if they claim to be ‘needing’ more [funds] help from imperfect humans they stand in opposition to god
they ask for more than they have a right to.
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Searcher says:
May 5, 2015 at 5:45 pm
Hey! I have an idea for Uncle Stevie and story time on JW.org. How about “Magic Wheat” for sale to the masses? That’ll make LOTS of $$$ for the organization.
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Charles Huff says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:26 pm
Great comments everyone, much love to all suffering.
I think the reasons they’re spending so much money on the new facilities is to make it more profitable when they sell it should the crap storm happen. They’re looking way down the road there. Attractive properties make attractive profits.
I think where all of us should focus our energy is in en effort to find out where the money goes legally. They are a corporation that uses child labor to sell magazines, perhaps we can sue for child labor abuses and make them open their books.
I know when Russell died, he let stock shares, who owns that?
If we could find this out, it may make them crumble.
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Charles Huff says:
May 5, 2015 at 6:28 pm
I meant Russell left stock shares to the WTBTS, a corporation…who is the ones who own those shares?
Where does the money go? Without speculation, this is what we need to find out. We need to KNOW, and I bet once we do, this cookie crumbles.
We have to find a way to make this happen.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm
I was trying to think, if they ever wanted to sell, who would want a property like Patterson or Warwick? An agricultural university? A secret government bacteriology/virology lab? A CIA training camp? A weird cultish-group of some kind?…
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Its an interesting problem they have boxed the WTS has boxed themselves in, isn’t? I’ve long said that if everyone did what the WTS prefers (work part time and pioneer), the WTS would have to soon close its doors for lack of funds. On the one hand, they have their flocks subdued by discouraging higher education and good job, but encouraging part-time work. Much growth is now seen in less economically developed countries outside the US that will have less means to support themselves. This growth will in turn put more pressure on the congregations of more affluent countries to support their work.
There are so many bizarre things about this broadcast. Take the example of the line cook that quits his job because his boss asks him to work Sundays. It is mentioned that he could have attended an evening meeting and kept his job. But he quit anyway! What would have been wrong with adjusting his schedule…instead he labeled his employer as uncompromising. Also, he had to get on unemployment, paid by the taxpayers of the government. Then, at the end of the skit it was said that Jehovah took care of him! Is Jehovah in the business of having us quit our jobs and go on public assistance? Ridiculous.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:09 pm
Sorry for the grammar issues, I am having PC issues.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 5, 2015 at 8:43 pm
Let’s see if I can get this out the above typos: The JWs are an interesting economic problem. Their recruitment techniques often work best on the vulnerable, including the impoverished and economically weak and/or educationally challenged. Combine this with the fact that those recruits will be subdued by the WTS by discouragement of higher education AND the encouragement of part-time/volunteer work that leaves many JWs with little discretionary or disposable income with which to support the WTS. So, to sum up, it looks to me like they are reaching the point of a well-known economic principle: the point of diminishing returns. If they want to be successful and continue to grow they will need to change one of their “production” variables (i.e. encourage college, well-paying jobs, cut costs, etc.).
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 9:42 pm
@Chatpal,Charles Huff,Finn Sawyer,Searcher etc . ALL of YOU !! GREAT INTELLIGENT & LOGICAL COMMENTS!! That is why all of us NO Longer believe the RUBBISH from the GB !! The Ones who do are Either TRAPPED in because of FAMILY or UNEDUCATED!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 9:44 pm
Or Mentally Deranged adding to the end of my last comment!
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Pickled brain says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:14 pm
Added to my last comment are those who are Sad,Desperate & Needy who need to Cling on to what these 7 American mainly white MEN with the Token Black thrown in . I was reading a 1942 publication by Watchtower ‘The New World ‘ & there is a picture of a pure WHITE Jesus with NO BEARD . The 52,000 Anointed taking the Emblems in 1935 were All Mainly WHITE Americans & Europeans . the Increase is in Less Prosperous & Less Educated countries such as Africa,Indonesia,Philipines,South America etc .So these people are more easily duped. Also if you give people FREE Bibles,Literature & Kingdom Halls they will Flock in BUT they don’t have the Money to contribute. AN ECONOMIC DISASTER,Anyone with an ounce of common sense could see this coming!!
anonymous says:
May 6, 2015 at 3:51 am
@Finn, in the United States you can’t get unemployment compensation if you voluntarily quit your job. He was either fired (and proved to unemployment that he was fired unfairly which takes a lawyer and months which costs a lot of money to prove it) or he was laid off which means that there was no longer any work for him. Either way, he didn’t “sacrifice” anything for the “truth”. If he was fired, it would have been much harder for him to find another job too with that work history of refusing to show up for work because of church. I believe that the whole story was a fabrication because it doesn’t make any sense to me.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 6, 2015 at 9:25 am
Whatever the specifics, we are agreed. The story makes no sense at all. And we haven’t touched on the idea that why would Jehovah intervene to find this man a job because he started pioneering…but not intervene in the case of a little child that needs a blood tranfusion? It is unbelievable.
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Sharon Lee Murray says:
May 5, 2015 at 9:09 pm
This was one of the announcements that woke me up in Dec2012…when they first said it was an ‘undue burden’ that brothers and sisters are carrying in this world. Retirement funds, IRA’s, 401K’s, pension plans, estates, unworn jewelry…anything you think you may need in this system. And now again, 29 months later. Wow…if this is not shades of 1975 I don’t know what is. Undue burden indeed!
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Jakemon75 says:
May 5, 2015 at 11:08 pm
Been Checking the site multiple times daily for something new. Glad to hear from you.
Hard hitting too. Please keep it up!
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Pickled brain says:
May 6, 2015 at 12:22 am
@Cedars . Just like to echo Jakemon75 comments. THIS SITE is BRILLIANT Head & Shoulders above anything else. & Also your YOUTUBE site JW CEDARS especially comments on Governing Body monthly Lectures. You,Lloyd Say what all Intelligent & Logical Ex-JWs & most Active JWs are thinking! Very Very Thankful of the Lives you have Saved from this Money Grabbing Organisation & also the GB STEAL our TIME that could be used on Getting good Education & Jobs so we can look after our Families Properly.wishing you& your Family all the Best.
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James Broughton says:
May 6, 2015 at 3:39 am
Many thanks for that insight. It seems ironic that Russell used to berate the Churches for daring to take collections. Incidentally the Witnesses in Britain have to publish their finances by law if they are to maintain charitable status. It will be interesting to see the cost of the impending move of the Bethel at Mill Hill (London) to Chelmsford (Essex).
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Scummydross says:
May 6, 2015 at 3:43 am
I now know the reason for the 40 languages. When you’re going to be asking for money from your slaves, you want to be an equal opportunity leach and reach as large of an audience as possible.
There was a reference to the Samaritan woman at the well, wasn’t this the portion of the bible that was removed in the last revision?
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BABY says:
May 6, 2015 at 4:07 am
Today, The organization of jehovah has many projects to be implemented in all parts of the world. This is not new. Just as a great project called the call of all Israelites by Moses in desert, so the Jehovah’s servants are called as ever to participate in Paravant hundreds of large projects.
There are only opponents, jealous, to criticize this as usual.
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MrFair says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:33 am
You can count the return visit if you make another comment :-)
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Jennifer says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:51 am
Common response. If anyone does not agree it is either b/c they are jealous or an apostate. Make sure next time a “new light” comes out you don’t disagree or question anything……
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Criticus says:
May 6, 2015 at 7:52 am
Sweet little Baby,
it really not THAT complicated, and no rocket science:
Moses = inspired by the True God Almighty.
WTS = not inspired by the True God Almighty, but “inspired” by their own, delusional megalomania.
Drawing parallels between a community that was “God-breathed” and governed by absolute and divine truth, and a profit-oriented corp of today that is using God’s Word as a sham, smokescreens & mirrors to hide behind is illegal. You cannot compare apples w oranges, or say sweet is bitter. Or r u one of those sweet little things that’s desperately trying to squeeze the cylinder through the triangular hole? Well then: KEEP PUSHING, and good luck with it.
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Driving Force says:
May 6, 2015 at 2:46 pm
Do you mean like “protect the pedophile” project? That requires a lot of money for the payoffs. Oh … I am sorry; to quote Lett that is just an “apostate based lie”.
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Bearwoody says:
May 6, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Suffer the children.
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Searcher says:
May 6, 2015 at 7:48 pm
@Baby,
The organization is ALWAYS in need of more, ever more. They always say the end is near, work harder, or the race goes the person who endures to the end. There is no end to what they will ask of you, and there never will be an end. Now, they want to fleece the flock for their short-sighted mismanagement of their business. Your GB leaders cannot manage money because they are too busy protecting themselves, rewriting the bible to suit their agenda, and rewriting their history to cover their previous lies.
It’s not about jealousy or criticism. This article that Lloyd put before us is about how you and your fellow members of this organization are being DUPED. You and your fellow members are being skinned and thrown about by a modern-day version of ‘Israelite’ Pharisees called the GB and leadership. These guys are no different that any other TV preacher asking to give donations before “God takes me home!” as they say. Like I said before; I just don’t know how these guys live in their skins at the end of the day!
Please wake up and get out as best you can. I wish you the best and I hope you wake up.
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Criticus says:
May 8, 2015 at 7:55 am
“The organization is ALWAYS in need of more, ever more.”
Reminds me of Proverbs 30,15:
“The leech has two daughters. ‘Give! Give!’ they cry. There are three things that are never satisfied, four that never say, ‘Enough!’”.
Let’s amend this verse by “five, that always crave for MORE MORE MORE – MORE field service hours, MORE pioneers, MORE donations, MORE publishers, MORE magazines placements, MORE kingdom halls, MORE jw.org-hits, MORE baptisms, MORE LESS (!!) branch offices … ” Get my drift?
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Excelsior! says:
May 7, 2015 at 5:36 am
Baby,
Your poor grammar, punctuation and spelling single you out as yet another ill educated JW, who can’t even be bothered to write to an adult level.
Why did you bother to comment here?
I hope that you will avail yourself of the information on this site. You need to do your research before you express your lack of knowledge on sites such as this.
You have my pity.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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BABY says:
May 8, 2015 at 5:58 am
English is not my language. Birth language is one of the old Egytians language, I am only try to write and speak. I’am an african.
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Criticus says:
May 8, 2015 at 8:03 am
Mudumbu bwam weya bôngô, Baby, mwibedi, mot a mawôndô bambèlè diwindi. Ndôndôki dibato ngengeti dimsè? Bôlè. Don la pula-pula muboè njo. Wongwa su.
Mwaso.
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Excelsior! says:
May 8, 2015 at 8:04 am
Baby,
I apologise. I am sure that I would do far worse if I were to try to write in your language!
May I suggest that you use google translate, or some other service?
However, the fundamental problem remains. You are woefully ignorant of what you write about, whatever language you choose!!
I urge you to research your religion. It is not what it pretends to be. It is not a Christian religion.
Ask yourself this, Baby. How much is the WTBTS short by? Why doesn’t Lett tell you how much they are short by?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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M Saurus says:
May 8, 2015 at 8:55 am
Baby – you know if you are on this site, you are breaking the rules.
BABY says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:24 am
I check my beliefs every times, since 35 years ago, I know in what organization I belong.
Everyday Explorer says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:30 am
Baby, please ask your elders about the numerous payouts to victims of child abuse within the WT. And, at the same time, google the evidence yourself on the worldwide web. The organisation is not being truthful to its many decent and caring witnesses. But you have to find out for yourself. It’s up to you. I wish you peaceful journeying.
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anonymous says:
May 6, 2015 at 4:26 am
At Luke 14:28, Jesus said that before starting a project a person needed to figure out how much the project was going to cost or else he’d be ridiculed for starting it and not having enough money to complete the project. It’s like having a lot of money to build an expensive bridge and getting half done and running out of money. Is that foolish or what?
Are the Governing Body assuming that when they start all these projects that will cost many millions of dollars that either God is going to throw money at them (trusting in Jehovah) or are they assuming the rank and file are just so stupid that they will produce all the money that they will need?
It seems like the more properties they get, the more they want and there is no end to it. At what point will the rank and file say enough! and walk away from the burden of their greed? It wasn’t that many years ago that we didn’t even have expensive assembly halls. We rented school gyms instead. The Society wants all those expensive assembly halls and Kingdom Halls because they want to give off the impression to the “world” that they are doing just as good as the rest of the churches.
They are competing with the churches. They want to look prosperous to attract new people. That is what this is all about. They have to depend on contributions and the only way they can do it is to “guilt” the rank and file into doing it for “Jehovah” and to guilt them into thinking if they don’t do it, that people are going to die at Armageddon for their not contributing towards the world wide work “building bigger and bigger buildings”.
When there are only 300 people doing the work of the printing and binding etc. but it takes 900 people working behind the scenes to feed and clothe these people is insane. It’s like running a business with 300 people doing the labor in the factor and 900 secretaries in the office. The difference is that in a factory where a product is made and sold, the product is sold for about 4 times as much as it cost to make the profit. The product has to be sold for enough money that the factory worker is making a salary and the people in the office is making a salary and the people who drive the truck is making money and the store that sells the product is making money. With the Watchtower, there is no product to be sold. It is all supported by “voluntary” donations. A premise like that is unsustainable eventually. Either they will have to start “charging” to sit in the Kingdom Halls and go to assemblies or they will have to quit. I believe that with all the talk about how the Society would never charge or tithe like the Mormons and other churches do, that people will vote with their feet.
Most people don’t vote in elections because they reason why vpte because their little vote isn’t going to make a difference so a lot of people could reason the same way when it comes to supporting the Society. Let’s say that a family is putting $50 into the contribution box towards the world wide work every month but those very people are really poor already. That $50 could mean a week’s worth of meals or could be going towards their rent or food or clothes for their kids and if that family is just hanging on, something like this little speech of Lett’s is what could push them over the edge especially if something happens that discourages them for any reason.
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MrFair says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:31 am
Good points. The organization is slowly but surely going through a “christendomization”.
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John says:
May 6, 2015 at 5:43 am
Have you thought the ramifications of education all the way through? I believe it is a coin toss as to whether encouraging education would result in increased contributions since education teaches a person the critical thinking skills that are anathema to any organization like this. Were one to develop critical thinking skill grey would be much more able to see this religion or any other for what they really are and would be more likely to disaffiliate. I find it amusing but hugely hypocritical that, based on my discussions with a friend who has been in bethel for a long time, the society has a huge need for people skilled in legal, medical, and technological fields where higher education is required. It’s true that there are some JWs who are well educated but the number of JWs receiving post-high school graduation in the United States is the lowest of any religion. Ignorance is the leading cause of both stupidity and gullibility.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 6, 2015 at 9:28 am
John,
I agree with your point of irony–the WTS both needs and discourages highly skilled people with critical thinking skills.
However, to your other point about education dampening those that will drink the kool aid, I just have a one-word comeback: Mormons.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:16 am
Having worked at bethel myself I might add there ARE highly intelligent people there. Intelligence is no immunity against indoctrination for persons in a vulnerable state, either as youths or for other reasons in adulthood. I’d wager the motorcycle riding CO in the broadcast most likely wouldn’t have become a CO if hadn’t lost his leg and become vulnerable.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:21 am
I did not mean to say that I am highly intelligent. Just that I knew people there that are. Man, I wish these comments had an edit feature.
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John says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:33 am
Yeah edit would be a handy feature. I was not saying that all JWs are unintelligent. Intelligence and education are not necessarily related. I would like to think that I am reasonably intelligent yet it took most of my 50+ years to come to the realization that not all is as it seems. I also am aware that I had entertained quite a few doubts over the years but suppressed them. While I personally never had the ‘privilege’ of serving at bethel a fair number of friends that I had growing up did, some of whom are still there. Anyway, we are straying way off topic so I’ll leave it at this. Thanks for your insight.
John says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:25 am
Fair point, as much as I have compared Mormons and JWs in the past that one slipped past me. A person’s background is as big an influence to their susceptibility or acceptance of cult beliefs as education in many ways.
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Excelsior! says:
May 8, 2015 at 8:11 am
John,
I met plenty of people who were unable to think critically at University. They were only concerned with passing exams, not with thinking for themselves.
I do agree, however, that generally a better education will provide at least the opportunity to think critically.
The WTBTS would benefit from the increased salaries of graduates, and would not really care if a certain number of better educated people left the JWorg.
As a sad example of my point, think of the Muslim students radicalised at Universities. A good education is not an automatic defence against cult indoctrination.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Rikos says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:14 am
Will be nice if you make comes on your video about the document Stephen letter send to the supreme Court of California that the watchtower don’t requgnise the publisher as jehovah witnesses. Why he ask from these people their money?
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Indigo ocean says:
May 6, 2015 at 9:09 am
Steven Lett? Are you sure Forest Gump didn’t join a cult in his twilight years
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Gorby says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:09 am
The year C.T. Russell founded the WTS, he also founded the United Investment corporation. So, there must be much more money then we can think. He was a businessman and tried to money for the old white lady’s who believed in his religion. C.W. Conley, the first president of the WTS was a banker and investor. It’s not so difficult if you want it to see. $$$ is the main reason of existence for the organization.
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Jess says:
May 6, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Is there a way to find out how much money GB are pocketing personally. I realize it’s not the main issue but it would be interesting to find out
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Driving Force says:
May 7, 2015 at 12:44 am
Jess.
I had a discussion on another blog similar to this, and I did a little research on non-profit organizations. They probably do get audited from time to time so they have to be careful, it is not legally possible for them to divert funds to another account unless it is another non-profit organization, it which case it just a donation, but they can pay themselves a salary for their work, which would be perfectly OK. I do no know if they do that or not.
One thing is for sure, they have a very good life in Bethel, they are just building themselves a nice retirement home in Wallkill with lake front rooms. They get to travel all over the world and I have read reports that they always travel first class, however I not not know if that is true. Wherever they go they are the honored guests and more or less worshiped by JWs. With their life everything is paid for by the contributions coming from the congregations. Even if the money going into the organization did dry up, then can live for a long time be slowly selling off the assets and closing down branch offices, selling kingdom halls and assembly halls.
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rikos says:
May 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm
The watchtower trying to teach the rank and file,that The Christians in the first century was poor and when was a need to donate was only for food and cloth. was only few years back when the drama of the distraction of Jerusalem was plain, and the Christians have to flee away from their homes with nothing. the watchtower have show the opposite. Their worst than most electronic religion. the properties they Owen is worth of many billions of $. is this the religion of poor Jesus have authorize to deceiving the world? please please .
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David says:
May 6, 2015 at 1:41 pm
The 3rd of this month Gerrit Losh gave a talk in Italy and encouraged young children to get baptised early and read an experience of a young a girl that was baptised at 5 and doing the pioneer for 4-5 years. They say that they protect children, but if at 10, 12 or 14 a child changes his/her mind, is it right to ostracise for the rest of their life? Is this protecting children? Can you immagine how terrible is for a young person being completely avoided from the rest of their life from their family or other dear friends? And because of a decision to be free and choose a personal path in life? Is this human? How can a human being be treated like this? The Jehovah Witnesses are letting thousand of people suffer deeply for the shunning practice. They let people fall in deep despair and depression. Often this is done perfectly good people, with persons of high standards. This mafia style behaviour has to be stopped. I think we should all of us spread the word and SEND LETTERS to authorities hopeful that one day will listen to our cry of help. Do this continously. Justice will be done one day because JW are not preaching the real Bible message. It is not Christian to treat human beings as criminals. We should talk less and do more to fight for our basic rights to change a religion and no loose the love of our families.
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Gareth says:
May 7, 2015 at 1:41 pm
Is there an audio recording of this talk?
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Innocent Son says:
May 6, 2015 at 1:54 pm
Well done Cedars, brilliant article, the Organisation is in demise, in our community 2 K Halls are up for sale, congregations halved the last few years, the coffers just aren’t coming in anymore.Interestingly just across the road from one of the K Halls which is empty a brand new Mormon Temple has been built, it took about 18months to complete, the Elders told the flock their K Hall had structural problems…! Convenient eh! Bunch of miscreants….Bet they tell lies when they talk in their sleep.
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Bradford says:
May 6, 2015 at 2:07 pm
For whatever reason, as a pretty normal witness for 10 years, I never felt compelled to put money in the contribution boxes. I used to feel weird counting money after meetings and filling out those slips. Now I realize why I felt that way.
I’d rather donate to this site than them any day. Actually, now that I think about it, many of us love this site and check it regularly. I’m guessing if we contribute here, Lloyd can provide more content on a regular basis.
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Bad Penny says:
May 6, 2015 at 2:08 pm
A few months ago I read about the Society purchasing a property on the Menai Straits in Wales, UK. For anyone who does not know, this is one of the most prestigious locations on the coast. Make a really nice escape and holiday home for the magnificent seven. So this is where some of the contributions are going. This, of course, is just one that we’ve found out about.
The poor African brother who has to choose between feeding his family or repairing his corrugated roof would be shocked.
John C – Hope you are feeling better, a few weeks ago I thought you might be thinking of closing the site, with your depression and effect it was having.
You have been brave enough to put your head above the parapet. There is always someone who will want to put you down. Keep up the good work!
On a side point, I have been researching the Memorial.
This most important day to JWs has been celebrated on the wrong day for ever! More info available to any who want to know.
.
It has enabled so many of us to air our views
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Innocent Son says:
May 6, 2015 at 2:27 pm
Hope you’re reading this Governing Body Members! The End is Nigh for you! The rotten corrupt Organisation is running out of money.
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Pickled brain says:
May 6, 2015 at 3:25 pm
@David . ALL You said about CHILD BAPTISM is sooo true in your comments. This OBSESSION by the GB to get 7,8,9& 10 year olds baptised is CRAZY. We had Mark Sanderson give a Branch Visit to Britain 3 weeks ago where he said a 7 year old is a Regular Pioneer!! He would have to have been BAPTISED at 6 YES ….. Six years of Age. This is UTTER MADNESS. IT IS NOT LEGAL to DRINK ALCOHOL until you are 18 years of Age & NO Child was Baptised at that age in the Greek Scriptures! Jesus was 30 . All the GB are doing is Increasing Numbers in the Yearbook & CRUELLY TRAPPING Youngsters into the Religion under ThE THREAT of SHUNNING & LOSING ALL Their FAMILY & Friends if they Leave or Question their Beliefs at 15,16,17etc
BARBARIC & SADISTIC MIND CONTROL which is Backfiring Bigtime as many are DEPRESSED & Suicidal!!
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Grace says:
May 6, 2015 at 3:24 pm
Once upon a time in a land far, far away. There were 7 deluded little men that thought that they were the Kings of the earth. They promised their subjects that if they followed them all of their problems would disappear & they would live happily ever after…..but it didn’t.
The End.
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Searcher says:
May 6, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Well said!
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Ted says:
May 6, 2015 at 3:34 pm
Ever since Russell advertised for “colporteurs, this org, has been
a book and mag, publishing company with an army of unpaid
workers to produce and sell their products.
That source of revenue has all but dried up. School children in
Los Angeles now have no need to carry about heavy textbooks
they’ve been issued with iPads. eBooks now provide their study
material. Apart from things like package labelling, paper printing
will soon be none existent.
It’s plain to see why so many wt, branches have shut down and
the workers summarily dismissed and told to go and pioneer.
The expensive giant printing presses in the Bethel’s will not be
needed and will only fetch scrap money.
In view of the situation, they’ve now copied groups like the
Mormons, extracting pledges of money and valuables from their
followers. Lett used a virtual Avalanche of scriptures to apply
emotional pressure, but avoided direct references to “Tithing”.
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Pickled brain says:
May 6, 2015 at 4:43 pm
@Ted . Your Comments SUM up the HISTORY of the Watchtower Organisation Perfectly in a Nutshell.
Millions of US FELL for the Fairy Story of a Paradise which we so Desperately wanted to believe without having the Old Literature at hand to compare& none of us in the 1970s,1980s & 1990s had the benefit of the Internet! The GB are Constantly GUESSING & Revising their interpretations of Scripture Daily ! Might as well do it ourselves like the Ancient Bereans !
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ziddina says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Lett: “…We in no way want to be categorized with other organizations, religious and otherwise, that coerce their supporters to donate…”
As my JW parents used to tell me…
Brother Lett, what you want, & what you’re gonna get, are two different things.
And then he has the unmitigated gall to refer to giving them yet MORE money, as a “privilege” – Watchtowerese for, “we need this from you, & you better be d*mned grateful that we’re giving you the chance to serve us by depriving yourself!”
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Yvonne says:
May 7, 2015 at 12:57 pm
Keep your eyes simple Governing Body as you tell all us little sheep we should do. Or is this another case of us doing what “Mother” says and not as she does.
Hypocrites.
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anonymous says:
May 6, 2015 at 6:34 pm
This is part one of three videos from Alex Mendes, a brother in South America who was deleted as an elder because his hours dropped but he was never irregular and didn’t miss meetings but was deleted because due to financial difficulties he couldn’t get his 10 hours per month. If you listen to the first part of his videos, you will want to watch #2 and #3. This is the way the Society treats one who is having difficulties. They don’t ever offer to help financially but only want more time in field service. That is all they are concerned about and a person doesn’t know that is how you are treated unless it happens to you like it did to this brother.
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Charles Costante says:
May 6, 2015 at 8:39 pm
“Once upon a time in a land far, far away. There were 7 deluded little men that thought that they were the Kings of the earth. They promised their subjects that if they followed them all of their problems would disappear & they would live happily ever after…..but it didn’t.”
Grace, are you the reincarnation of Enid Blyton?!!! I much preferred The Magic Faraway Tree, The Famous Five and The Secret Seven stories you wrote in your past life. You seem to have lost your touch. That’s soooooo sad!!! (Tee hee)
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Wild Olive says:
May 6, 2015 at 9:21 pm
The sad fact is that many will give more in the belief they are “helping” Jehovah, I know so many who so guilt ridden they would do anything to feel worthy, honestly when I look at WT broadcasts I get the Winchester out and oil it.
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Charles Costante says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:18 pm
“………. I get the Winchester out and oil it.”
So it hasn’t turned into a plowshare or a pruning hook yet, Wild Olive?!
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Wild Olive says:
May 7, 2015 at 3:50 am
@ Charles Constante,oh definitely not, mr Winchester has dealt with dangerous pigs and snakes in the past,Ime just seeing a different kind of snake,and anyway if you threw a ploughshare at someone it would still cause a lot of damage lol
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Oubliette says:
May 6, 2015 at 10:27 pm
“If you are going to divulge a shortfall in funds, …, the least you can do is treat them like adults and give some hard numbers.”
This was always one of the things that bothered me the most about the WTBTS. Every month each congregation gives an “Accounts Report” to their own congregation ensuring total fiscal transparency. So why don’t the branches and the World Wide Headquarters follow suit in the excellent example set by the local congregations?
There is only one answer: IT’S A CULT!
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Pickled brain says:
May 6, 2015 at 11:44 pm
@Oubliette. EXACTLY WE ALL DONATE HARD EARNED MONEY so GIVE US SOME ‘DAMNED HARD ACCOUNTING FIGURES ‘
Every CHARITY??? That gets TAX Exempt status like Oxfam,SCOPE,PDSA,British Heart Foundation etc Produce a BALANCE SHEET you can check. Now WHY Can’t the GB put on JW.ORG the Accounts for the year so all JWs & non JWs who Contributes??(DUBIOUS WORD) can see How much Is
1)Spent on materials(bricks,cement, pipe work,paint,toilets,etc)for Kingdom Halls in EACH Country ;
2)Money spent on Magazines,books,brochures(paper&ink etc)
3) Seven GB members EXPENSE(air travel tickets,CARS,,Petrol,Insurance,Hotel Rooms,Expensive suits,watches,rings etc.) PLUS any EXPENSES for Hangers on (Family members)
4) ASSETS-..like PRINTING PRESSES,COMPUTERS,CAR POOL,etc
5) ALL BROOKLYN BUILDING SALES & Real Estate around the World in EACH Country & Cost of LAND purchases & building costs
6) WILLS,Stocks&Shares,Property DONATED by Gullible JWs
7)MONEY Donated in Contributions BOXES in EACH Country etc
8) Money Donated at CONVENTIONS in Each Country
9)RTO Offices in Each Country
THAT WILL DO FOR NOW…. JUST BASIC FIGURES.
I Expect all of you on this SITE can think of more.
One Simple Accounts Stating the above Posted on JW.ORG & EVERY JW can see How DISCREET???! The Faithful & Discreet Slave are with our Money.
HMMmmm !!!
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Searcher says:
May 7, 2015 at 10:10 am
Yes. Agreed @Pickled. If these guys are guided by God himself as they claim, then what on earth do they have to hide. It should be ALL good. Show it all, Right?
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anonymous says:
May 7, 2015 at 3:30 am
I would like to know what the monthly allowance the Governing Body get and do they have to buy their own clothes with that money and their own insurance and gas money and since they never “earned” any money throughout their entire lives, they obviously don’t qualify for any social security. Do they have to pay for any of their expenses out of their monthly allowance like the Bethelites do and how much do they get and what do their digs look like. How much do their wives get and how much work do their wives have to do. Do their wives have to wash clothes and clean rooms like all the other sisters have to do. Do they have to make car payments with their allowance or is a new car provided for them free and clear?
I would bet you anything that they live like kings and so do their wives and they don’t have to lift a finger to do anything except to “read” all that the writing department puts out and approve it. They don’t even do any of the writing. They are leeches and are treated like the pope of the Catholic Church. They are arrogant and self-righteous and they don’t have to answer to anybody for anything. I would also bet you that they don’t spend even one hour in the door to door work each month and I would bet you anything that not a one of them even has ever conducted a regular Bible study in their entire life (except for Morris because he had two boys) and yet they have to gaul to get in front of the camera and guilt the rank and file into supporting them and their lavish life style and are expected to give them respect when they are nothing but arrogant cult leaders and do absolutely nothing that they expect the rank and file to do for free and willingly. All they have to do is throw some scriptures in the talk about giving to the world wide work and the rank and file will fall for it hook, line and sinker and they know it because the rank and file are under mind control of a very cunning cult.
All churches are for is to guilt people into giving money and time to the church in the guise of saving either themselves or the people in the “world” like Witnesses think. All religions do that, whether it claims to be “Christian” or not.
My husband and I have about $29,000 in retirement stocks and bonds and every 3 months, we get a detailed accounting of where the stocks are invested and how much these stocks made etc and what companies these stocks represent. We don’t make much on these stocks and sometimes they lose money but we get these accounts reports every 3 months anyway.
That is so much more honest than the Society. Any company who runs their business so secretly like the Society does, has something to hide. There is no reason that every congregation couldn’t get a detailed accounts report at least once a year and it should be posted in the Kingdom Halls so that everybody can see where “their” money is going and it is “their” money after all.
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danman says:
May 7, 2015 at 5:02 am
These gb have attained the very highest, prestigious, position available to them in this cult. They (as most local elders) are willing to give up a wallet full of money for the adulation and power over others.
Dare they ever ACTUALLY follow bible principles and consider themselves servants to the brothers and sisters, without a modicum of influence or power over others, suddenly such cult jobs would be not so enticing.
If Sister Willing is no longer required to submit to their will, if Brother MS could speak his mind, if they could not puff themselves up with talks, assembly parts, if elder/gb wives were not given special attention and respect, just see how fast the ranks of these men would fade…almost overnight.
Money they don’t need no stinking money. Admit it or not, they thrive on power and self aggrandizement.
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Searcher says:
May 7, 2015 at 10:17 am
Hey Danman,
I remember when I went to a District Convention with my ex-wife one year. I volunteered to clean the men’s restroom. Basically, because my butt got numb from sitting so dang long. However, I saw a couple of the elders from the KH that my ex and I were attending. I asked if they could help too. WOW! I got some stink-eyed looks from both of them. Like, “How dare you ask us to do a servants job!” That told me a lot about this religion and it’s hierarchy. The GB is most likely much worse. The GB would say, “How dare you ask us to go out and do field service, ride in coach class, do without a personal maid, etc, etc, etc….
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danman says:
May 7, 2015 at 1:23 pm
Searcher,
I have been out for over 30 years, yet can vividly recall elder meetings wherein heated arguments arouse out of one elder or another getting to many “priveleges” or translated into human speak…more prominence than some other ‘spirit appointed’ shepherd of the flock..yeah right.
It is true that some older elders, who were put through their paces early in life, mellowed and appeared to be more kind, more loving, than some newbie, yet those same old timers were never timid about asserting their long service records. In other words they made a good show of meekness and mildness, but still were very protective of their status.
Now if you had of requested that those two ‘assembly elders’ assign some willing sisters and teenagers to do the work…well another story. smile.
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Nemorino says:
May 7, 2015 at 4:55 am
Lett’s solicitation for funds is cleverly worded so as to frame the deficit in terms average monthly receipts from contributions vs. monthly expenses … he omits any reference to receivables from the proceeds of real estate sales or in the realizable value of current real estate assets, saleable but not yet sold.
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Searcher says:
May 7, 2015 at 10:06 am
Very good point!!! This could be another ruse just to get more money by saying how poor they are.
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anonymous says:
May 7, 2015 at 6:48 am
Would Jesus wear a Rolex?
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Queen Elsa says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:29 am
Haha, good one! I’m missing have to post that to my Facebook page… :)
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Queen Elsa says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:29 am
Might *
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kat says:
May 7, 2015 at 7:06 am
religion is a scam and a racket, the only true word the judge said. WT is a scam and a racket.
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kat says:
May 7, 2015 at 7:08 am
should say a snare and a racket, but then again scam is just as appropriate.
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JBob says:
May 7, 2015 at 9:58 am
I think it’s time to bring back the Miracle Wheat seed packets…
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major tom (the song reference) says:
May 7, 2015 at 12:15 pm
Wow, what will happen when it all comes crashing down? Entire lives, families and generations have been invested in this organization. The future is going to be interesting to say the least. Growing up the publications used to be professional doctrine. Now they play whiteboard videos like we are preschoolers. I hope I am not sinning by posting this, but I am confused by all this. (Also thank you cedar for simplifying the grammer and demeanor you use in these articles, it is much easier to understand :)
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disillusioned says:
May 7, 2015 at 12:25 pm
This is taken from a brochure God’s Kingdom Rules! on jw.org:
FOCUS OF CHAPTER
Why and how Jehovah’s people support Kingdom work financially
1, 2. (a) How did Brother Russell answer a minister who wanted to know how the activities of the Bible Students were managed? (b) What will we consider in this chapter?
ON ONE occasion, Brother Charles T. Russell was approached by a minister of the Reformed Church who wanted to know how the activities of the Bible Students were managed.
“We never take up a collection,” explained Brother Russell.
“How do you get the money?” asked the minister.
“If I tell you what is the simplest truth you will hardly be able to believe it,” replied Russell. “When people get interested in this way, they find no basket placed under their nose. But they see there are expenses. They say to themselves, ‘This hall costs something . . . How can I get a little money into this thing?’”
The minister looked at Brother Russell in disbelief.
“I am telling you the plain truth,” continued Russell. “They do ask me this very question, ‘How can I get a little money into this cause?’ When one gets a blessing and has any means, he wants to use it for the Lord. If he has no means, why should we prod him for it?” *
2 Brother Russell was indeed telling “the plain truth.” God’s people have a long history of making voluntary contributions to support true worship. In this chapter, we will examine some Scriptural examples of this along with our modern-day history. As we consider how Kingdom activities are being financed today, each of us would do well to ask, ‘How can I show my support for the Kingdom?’
“Let Everyone With a Willing Heart Bring a Contribution”
3, 4. (a) What confidence does Jehovah have in his worshippers? (b) How did the Israelites show their support for the building of the tabernacle?
3 Jehovah has confidence in his true worshippers. He knows that if they are given the opportunity, they will gladly show their devotion by their voluntary giving. Consider two examples from Israel’s history.
4 After leading the Israelites out of Egypt, Jehovah told them to build a portable tent, or tabernacle, for worship. The structure and its furnishings would require considerable resources. Jehovah instructed Moses to give the people the opportunity to support the project, saying: “Let everyone with a willing heart bring a contribution for Jehovah.” (Ex. 35:5) How did the people, who not long before had toiled “in harsh conditions in every form of slavery,” respond? (Ex. 1:14) They showed unqualified support, willingly parting with gold, silver, and other valuables—most of which they had likely obtained from their former masters, the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35, 36) The Israelites gave more than was needed and had to be “restrained from bringing in anything else.”—Ex. 36:4-7.
5. How did the Israelites respond when David gave them the opportunity to contribute to the building of the temple?
5 Some 475 years later, David contributed out of his “private treasure” to finance the building of the temple, the first permanent center of true worship on earth. Then he gave his fellow Israelites the opportunity to give, asking: “Who volunteers to come forward today with a gift in hand for Jehovah?” In response, the people made “voluntary offerings to Jehovah with a complete heart.” (1 Chron. 29:3-9) Recognizing the true source of the contributions, David said in prayer to Jehovah: “Everything is from you, and we have given to you what comes from your own hand.”—1 Chron. 29:14.
6. Why is money needed to carry out Kingdom work today, and what questions arise?
6 Neither Moses nor David had to pressure God’s people to give. Rather, the people gave with willing hearts. What about today? We are well-aware that the work God’s Kingdom is doing requires money. It takes considerable resources to publish and distribute Bibles and Bible literature, to build and maintain meeting places and branch facilities, and to provide emergency relief aid to fellow believers in times of disaster. Therefore, important questions arise: How are the necessary funds obtained? Do the King’s followers need to be prodded to give?
“It Will Never Beg nor Petition Men for Support”
7, 8. Why do Jehovah’s people not beg or petition others for money?
7 Brother Russell and his associates refused to imitate the money-raising schemes so common in the churches of Christendom. In the second issue of the Watch Tower, under the heading “Do You Want ‘Zion’s Watch Tower’?” Russell stated: “‘Zion’s Watch Tower’ has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support. When He who says: ‘All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,’ fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.” (Hag. 2:7-9) Over 130 years later, The Watchtower and the organization that publishes it are still going strong!
8 Jehovah’s people do not beg for money. They do not pass collection plates or send out letters of solicitation. Neither do they use bingo, bazaars, or raffles to raise money. They hold to what the Watch Tower long ago said: “We have never considered it proper to solicit money for the Lord’s cause, after the common custom . . . It is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our Lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.” *
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JJ says:
May 7, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Yes, I remember Pastor Russell being proudly quoted that the Watchtower would never need to ask for money or the time to quit would be obvious.
I believed in things like that.
I now see that the GB simply changes the rules as they go along.
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Searcher says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:19 am
You are so correct. It’s new FINANCIAL light.
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Charles Costante says:
May 7, 2015 at 3:13 pm
The Watchtower has used psychological manipulation such as guilt all along to get what they want. At least begging and petitioning is a lot more honest.
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MrFair says:
May 7, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Thinking about this some more I realized that this is a classic case of Watchtower changing the meaning of words. Examples include: Creationist, Fundamentalists, doomsday preachers, cult, etc. Now they have redefined what it means to “solicit funds” so that it only involves envelopes or collection plates – soliciting only means “to ask or try to obtain” which has definitely happened with this broadcast. Lett mentioned that they don’t “coerce” anyone to donate – coerce means “to persuade an unwilling person to do something by using force or threats”. Listening to the program carefully, there was the threat that if funds are not forthcoming , Jehovah will have to scale back. That is a threat if you think about it, like saying: “if we don’t get the money we need for all of the special theocratic initiatives we’re planning, you won’t get them. They’ll have to be cancelled or put on hold and it will be all your fault”. In the mind of an average witness that would be horrific. Guilt and coercion anyone?
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Searcher says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:23 am
@Mr.Fair,
You bring up a very good point here: “Listening to the program carefully, there was the threat that if funds are not forthcoming , Jehovah will have to scale back.” It’s almost like Lett is putting the whammy on God himself to be the bad guy if the funds don’t come forth. When in actuality, it’s the mismanagement and idiotic policies that put the GB and WTS in the predicament it has now.
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ScotWm says:
May 7, 2015 at 7:36 pm
I watched Stephen Lett’s entire spiel encouraging the friends to donate even more “valuable things” to support the Governing Body’s latest spending spree. After a while, it became almost painful to watch Lett’s greatly exaggerated facial expressions and gestures. As one commentator noted, he does indeed look and act like a clown without makeup.
Anyway, I am beginning to think that JW televangelism is specifically targeting new recruits. The personal stories are designed to tug at their heart strings as well as their purse strings. Forty four minutes into Lett’s video, there is a story about a brother who quit his job in order to have a perfect meeting attendance record. After being unemployed for several months, this brother was starting to worry that he had made the wrong decision. But the brother who originally studied with him had some encouraging news:
“He reminded me that as a newly baptized witness, my prayers are much more readily received and Jehovah was ready to respond.”
Of course, no scripture was given to substantiate this claim. But the Governing Body approved this video, so it must be true.
So there you go. Newly baptized witnesses have a tremendous advantage over witnesses who have donated all of their valuable things and are now used up.
The light just keeps getting brighter and brighter.
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODStudio/pub-jwb_201505_1_VIDEO
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Charles Costante says:
May 7, 2015 at 10:05 pm
“I watched Stephen Lett’s entire spiel ………..”
I admire your intestinal fortitude, ScotWm; I couldn’t watch more than a minute.
“He reminded me that as a newly baptized witness, my prayers are much more readily received and Jehovah was ready to respond.”
Some of these people must suffer from severe copremesis (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/copremesis) because the fecal matter that comes out of their mouths is extraordinary!
I’m remember reading in a book by a Sydney herbalist many years ago (she was talking about herbal remedies for constipation, if I recall correctly) that when she was a child her mother constantly admonished her to always keep her BOWELS OPEN and her MOUTH SHUT. Good advice!
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ScotWm says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:09 am
“He reminded me that as a newly baptized witness, my prayers are much more readily received and Jehovah was ready to respond.”
Well, maybe, but not always…”Because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.”—Ecclesiastes 9:11.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009161
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Charles Costante says:
May 7, 2015 at 11:03 pm
” I would also bet you that they don’t spend even one hour in the door to door work each month ……..”
That would go beyond hypocrisy, anonymous. I’d be very interested to know if anyone has actually seen them out in field service since they’ve become GB members. I presume that even they are supposed to spend 10 hours a month (or whatever it is now) trying to convert non-believers, otherwise they might be considered ‘inactive’. I suppose they can count all the time they spend on JW Broadcasting as well as any talks they give at conventions. I wonder if they also count the time preparing all that bull$h!t?
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anonymous says:
May 8, 2015 at 2:51 am
@ScotWm, in the U.S. you can’t get unemployment compensation unless you are laid off (no more work for you or you can’t do your work even though you try) or you have to prove you were fired unfairly which takes a lawyer and time and money to prove. I think if this was a true story, the guy was laid off. If this was a true story the guy could never have gotten unemployment compensation if he quit his job like the Society would like to make you think is what happened. That story was very deceptive.
@Charles Costante, I don’t think the Governing Body prepare anything because in a recent video, Herd was saying that they spend all their time reading and reading and reading all that the writing department puts out for them to read and approve of. I doubt if they even do any research because they are just so “busy” reading all the time. As far as I know, the writing department are all of the “other sheep” and are not “anointed with Holy Spirit”. What person would love to live their life style and all the “work” they had to do was read and give talks????
The way I look at it, these men are just delusional and think that God is speaking to them and not to the other sheep and that falls under the category of nuts. They probably reason that if they actually stepped out of their doors and were to go up to strangers’ houses, that the apostates would start surrounding them and asking them questions and so they think God would certainly understand why they don’t go out of their residences without guard dogs protecting them since the “apostates” are supposedly Satanic and they probably think their lives are in danger from them. I think they think they are like the Pope or the Queen of England because they are just that important.
I think it is impossible to talk to these guys in person or on the phone because they are afraid that the rank and file will find out that they don’t know any more than the average Joe but they want to keep the illusion going to the rank and file that they have been “specially called” and have a one on one with God.
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ScotWm says:
May 8, 2015 at 8:55 am
RE: Unemployment insurance:
Around 46 minutes into the “Lett’s Give Everything We Have” video: 6 MONTH LATER — “I never thought it would go on so long. Eventually, I had to go on unemployment insurance so we could get by.”
We are shown that this brother, his wife and children enjoy very nice living conditions. And somehow, they managed to keep this living arrangement going for six months without any income. Obviously, they had not been donating all of their valuable things to the Watchtower Society, or they would have been living under a freeway overpass in a cardboard box by this time.
California law: “State law provides that an individual who quits his/her job may be eligible for UI benefits provided there was “good cause” for leaving employment, and the individual made all reasonable attempts to keep their job (e.g., request of leave of absence or transfer). Once all reasonable alternatives to leaving have been attempted, good cause may include situations such as leaving work due to unsafe working conditions, leaving work based on a medical doctor’s advice, or leaving work to protect oneself or one’s child from domestic violence.”
So, after six months of living off of a mysterious funding source, this brother says that he had to go on unemployment insurance. Perhaps he confused unemployment insurance with welfare.
http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/faq_-_eligibility.htm
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anonymous says:
May 8, 2015 at 10:39 am
@ScotWm, I will bet you anything if there really is any truth to that story, the real truth is that he went on welfare. Nothing else about it adds up because he could have gone to meetings at another Kingdom Hall so he would have had to lie if he told the unemployment office that he couldn’t attend church at another church etc. I bet he did quit his job (if it’s a real story which I doubt) and went on welfare because he thought if he “trusted” in Jehovah and quit his job to attend Sunday meetings in that one Kingdom Hall, that Jehovah would throw a job in his face that would be perfect for him so he wouldn’t have to miss any meetings.
I agree with what you said in that it was very irresponsible and the Bible does say that the man who doesn’t take care of his family is worse than an unbeliever.
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ScotWm says:
May 9, 2015 at 9:29 pm
I too am inclined to believe that the entire story about the brother, who put Watchtower interests first and quit his job, is a complete falsehood.
After watching the entire 95 minute “Lett’s Dig Deeper” video, I don’t recall hearing the Jesus’ name mentioned even once. Matthew 6:25 and 33 were quoted around 45 minutes into the video, but Jesus was not mentioned as being the One who spoke these words.
This trend of minimizing Jesus and emphasizing the Governing body has been going on for some time now. The message now seems to be; “Draw close to Jehovah by drawing close to the Governing Body.”
Contrast this situation with the words of our Savior: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)
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David says:
May 8, 2015 at 5:42 am
It is remarkable that the GB in their talks often read the Bible from a tablet. So they said that Jehovah even controlled the weather to allow the printing of new Bibles (the even more corrupted version) and then they read the electronic version. I think Jehovah could have saved dying African children instead.
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danart says:
May 8, 2015 at 6:55 am
My first comment here.
First of all, thank you so much, Lloyd, for your website and all your effort.
Here my question, why don’t these seven magnificent at least once apply their own rule: “Wait on Jehovah!”, and that in the case which is much less serious than many others they have put on the sheep as heavy load..
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Ted says:
May 8, 2015 at 7:39 am
Anonymous, The same rules regarding unemployment benefit
apply here in G,B, The man that Lett mentions, who packed in
his job so he wouldn’t have to miss just one meeting would not
be eligible for any monetary help.
Because the man pioneered,( instead of spending the time looking
for another job! ) Lett calls his attitude BALANCED.
But what could be more IRRESPONSIBLE, than a man with a family to
consider, just throwing in his job, especially in times of job scarcity.
A fellow witness who studied with the man, told him JHVH
would give special attention to his prayers. Here I can’t help thinking
of the 26 youths pictured in a 1994 Awake who died for want of a
blood transfusion. No doubt their parents prayed most fervently for
their children’s lives, but no one seems to have listened. But we’re
expected to believe that because a job eventually turned up for this
Impulsive and ill advised man, that God was personally looking out.
for him.
Further reckless advice was given, “Do not be anxious for tomorrow”.
This seemed paradoxical as the many recent schemes and pleas
for money indicate more than a “Little” anxiety about tomorrow
and the future of this org. Not to mention the cushy lifestyle enjoyed
only by the elite.
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ScotWm says:
May 8, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: “But what could be more IRRESPONSIBLE, than a man with a family to consider, just throwing in his job, especially in times of job scarcity.”
But that’s exactly what one California brother did a few years ago. This brother and his family came into the “truth” and soon after, his prayers were answered. He made the transition from welfare and part time grunge work to a union job as a utility clerk (janitor) in a supermarket. This job paid a decent wage, provided excellent benefits and allowed him to attend all meetings. This job was claimed by all to be the loving provision that proved his prayers had been answered.
But then, a summer assembly road show came to town and this brother was unable to get time off to attend the first day’s meeting. So he quit his job and lost all of his benefits, even though his wife was 6 months pregnant. I don’t know if he was able to finally collect unemployment, but he eventually ended up back on welfare and has stayed there ever since, living below the poverty level. His wife later divorced him.
On the bright side, this brother was able to attend each day of the assembly, so he is assured of eternal life on a paradise earth.
It’s too bad that this faithful brother’s story wasn’t used in the “Lett’s Give Until It Hurts” video.
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Curious Student says:
May 8, 2015 at 10:01 am
I have been doing a lot of research on the psychology of religion. It may even become the topic of my master’s degree thesis. I enjoy reading the comments posted by ex-Witnesses because they offer insight into the mind controlling techniques used by the Watchtower.
I have two questions:
1- Are there any modern cases of religious movements that disappeared because their members became aware of their unfounded beliefs or because they lost the support of their membership? Is it reasonable to expect that a group as large as JWs will eventually disappear or will they morph into a more mainstream, weakened form of secular religion?
2- Not sure if Lloyd has already covered this topic in one of his postings but are members of the governing body as deluded as their followers? Are they victims of their own fallacies or is there any reason to believe that seven elderly men in Brooklyn are purposely misleading the flock?
I belonged to this religion for decades. I was a regular pioneer and became a ministerial servant when I was 19 years old. I also lived in the Brazilian Bethel for six months where I had a chance to meet and work with branch overseers. They all seem to be genuine.
Any insight? Thoughts?
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Searcher says:
May 8, 2015 at 10:17 am
Well, you just said it. It’s a “delusion”. How does a person build a delusion in their mind? How do they maintain it and rationalize it in their mind? When does the delusion meet reality? Sometimes at a crisis, sometimes at death.
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Curious Student says:
May 8, 2015 at 1:27 pm
@Searcher: Good points for additional research! Thank you for your feedback.
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anonymous says:
May 8, 2015 at 10:59 am
@Curious Student, I am so glad you are out of the Organization and going to school!
Have you read Ray Franz’s book, Crisis of Conscience? Ray was a life long Witness from a family that were big in the Witnesses and his Uncle eventually became the 3rd president.
He was a pioneer and in the circuit work and branch work etc. before going to New York to serve at Bethel and becoming part of the Governing Body. He thought it was the “truth” all those years and even when he was at Bethel for quite a while and then he started doing research on the Aid to Bible Understanding and at the same time there was a brother called Carl Olaf Jonsson who had been doing independent research on 607 and Mr. Jonsson was going back and forth with what he had found in his research and the Society disfellowshipped Mr. Jonsson because they wanted to shut him up so he would not be able to tell anybody that Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 586/587 BCE instead of 607 and obviously Ray didn’t agree with doing that to Mr. Jonsson. The Society became paranoid and then the Society started a purge at Bethel and even though Ray Franz wasn’t involved in anything that was against the Society, the Governing Body disfellowshipped him anyway and anybody else they just felt like getting rid of. Once Ray discovered a lot of the lies that the Society was covering up, he and his wife decided to just quietly leave Bethel but the Governing Body disfellowshipped him anyway because he had “inside” information.
After that, is when he wrote Crisis of Conscience and that is when the Society made it a rule that nobody can just quietly leave the organization and that if anybody starts telling anybody else in the organization about all the lies and coverups that they will be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
So, most of the Witnesses in the field really think it’s the truth and maybe even the Governing Body might think it’s the truth but they are out of reach of the rank and file. Nobody is allowed to speak to these guys so until somebody can corner them and start asking some questions to their face and they can’t get away and are forced to answer to the quesions, it’s hard to know if they are delusional or do know it’s not the truth and are scallywags.
What is so bad about it is that people’s lives are at stake when it comes to blood and disfellowshipping. If the rank and file were allowed to know about all the dirty laundry and decided to stick with them anyway, that is one thing but they aren’t told anything about the real truth at all.
I believe that there are so many people who love the Governing Body so much that they could all admit to having sex with dogs and the rank and file would stick with them anyway because they are so deep into forgiving because they are told over and over again that if they can’t forgive, than how could Jehovah forgive them of their sins?
That’s how it works.
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Searcher says:
May 8, 2015 at 12:55 pm
The forgiving part only runs one way for the GB. Again, “do as we say and not as we do” mentality. They don’t forgive (i.e. disfellowshiping) anyone for disagreeing and/or questioning the GB or their flock of bull____ writers and history revisers.
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Curious Student says:
May 8, 2015 at 1:45 pm
@Anonymous: Thank you. Yes, I read Ray Franz’ book. How many of them do you think find themselves in the same situation but do not have the courage to leave and feel forced to perpetuate the same lies? Do they get trapped in their own web of distorted beliefs? Are they misleading because they find themselves in a situation of non-return? Lloyd posted a video on YouTube about Scientology. It is clear to me that L. Ron Hubbard and his successor, David Miscavige, did not have “pure” motives from the start. Apparently Hubbard created a religious front only for tax purposes. I particularly do not see such an evil intent on the modern leadership of JW. As I have stated, I think they are caught up in their own web of lies such as some rank and file members that discover later on in life that they are too old to leave the organization to restart their lives.
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anonymous says:
May 8, 2015 at 2:50 pm
@curious student, I don’t know. Most of them actually seem evil to me like they know it’s all lies but then it is so hard for me to believe that they have the balls to get in front of the camera every month if they knew they were telling nothing but lies. There is absolutely nothing I can say to my born in husband who is 70 and he is a 3rd generation born in and he can’t deal with him and his whole family and grandmother and mother and aunts and uncles and cousins having all been wrong. He just can’t let his brain go there and I suspect that the Governing Body can be just that “thick” too.
I just got done typing out the entire book of Exodus, trying to understand every scripture and there is not a single thinking person that could possibly ever think it could have actually happened the way it says it did if they actually paid attention to it when they read it. For instance I asked my husband what was written on the first set of stone tablets and he didn’t know but it starts with Exodus chapter 25 and goes all the way through Exodus 31 and it was the instructions for the building of the tabernacle. That is what was written on the first two stone tablets that God wrote on for him. Everybody thinks it was the ten commandments but nobody actually pays any attention when they read the Bible and I never did either until I actually typed it out scripture by scripture. You can’t tell me that these men who supposedly hear from God and are directing His people wouldn’t make that clear to the Governing Body but yet have you ever seen anything like that in any Watchtower literature? I sure haven’t but it’s in everybody’s Bible in black and white. That is only one question I’d love asking any one of the Governing Body to see if they know the answer.
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shannon says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:06 pm
Good Evening Anonymous..I wanted to tell you I absolutely love all of your comments they are well written, informative and useful! I have a question for you,if a witness came to your door, what would you say??
(you will only get a few short minutes before they are on to you) I want to ask them…. if they tell new flock members that if they change their mind and do not want to be a JW any longer they will lose their family and friends.
JJ says:
May 9, 2015 at 4:54 am
Christian Science comes to my mind as a religion that once was large and influential and now seems to have faded away. All in a generation or two, as well.
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Curious Student says:
May 9, 2015 at 6:51 pm
@JJ – Thank you. I had never heard about Christian Science. I did a quick research and found out that they flourished in the early 1900’s but have lost a significant part of their membership by now.
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Searcher says:
May 8, 2015 at 10:05 am
You know? This JW.org broadcast is a real blessing in disguise. The recent broadcast of “Story Time with Brother Lett” sure is telling for those who are thinking of joining this cult or have a shadow of doubt about its claims. The broadcast shows what a dolt this guy and the other 6 buffoons are like when they get in front of this very plastic-like televangelist set. Now, the viewer of JW.org can also very easily go to other websites of similar name (ex/ JWSurvey) that pop up in the browser search engine. Low on money in coffers, low on brains in the organization, low on slave labor for work at bethel (i.e. TPT talk on visiting Bethel instead of an amusement park); these guys are really just killing themselves and advertising it to boot. GOOD THING this JW.org!
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JJ says:
May 8, 2015 at 1:04 pm
I think the GB might have started JW TV with the expressed aim of using it to solicit money.
This shortage of income didn’t just happen this year! The money had been drying up for a long time and they are getting desperate.
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MagistrateMan says:
May 8, 2015 at 2:35 pm
I have just been viewing an article on JW.Org that was entitled ‘How do Jehovah’s Witnesses fund their work?’ I wanted to find this quote that seems to be in direct contrast to the latest broadcast by Stephen Lett. The quote said “Over a century ago, the second issue of the Watchtower magazine stated that we believe we have Jehovah as our backer and that we “will never beg nor petition men for support”—and we never have!—Matthew 10:8.” Well what was that last broadcast all about then!
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anonymous says:
May 8, 2015 at 3:31 pm
If Lett’s talk about how the Israelites gave so willingly doesn’t do the trick, the next thing he might pull out of his bag of tricks is that actually they were told that they were “required” to give to the temple to take care of the priests at Exodus 20:12, Exodus 30: 13,14 and Deut. 14:28,29 and Deut. 16: 16-18.
Since the Society has always said they were different than the other churches who tithe, it is almost impossible for them to tithe now. That was at the point that the Society has always said it was time to close up shop.
If the rank and file are like my husband, they will shower the Society with more and more money because of talks like this because they believe what they want to believe. They can’t accept that they are wrong and have been so misled all their lives and how do they go back and explain to their children and parents and aunts and uncles and cousins and Bible studies now after they helped all those people into the “truth”? How will they explain to all their friends and family if they should stop going to meetings and service? The hardest ones to deal with all those feelings are the elders and ministerial servants and pioneers and Circuit Overseers and Governing Body members. How can they deal with finding out that they have been misled all their lives and they will never get another chance to live that life again and this life was all it was? I am so glad I was never in that position. Like I told the elders who came to see me, “I am just a little person. Nobody pays that much attention to a little person but when it comes to an elder or a Circuit Overseer or Governing Body member taking off and quitting, then people sit up and take notice. I personally don’t know how hard it has to be for an elder to quit but my conscience won’t let me step foot in another Kingdom Hall and if the Governing Body members would take questions from apostates, then we’d know for sure if they are really sincere and have a working conscience or are just crooks out to fleece poor innocent people.
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Ted says:
May 8, 2015 at 4:36 pm
ScotWm, Good post, these experiences are meaningless.
There’s just as many negative ones as the positive kind,
take your pick!
It’s the same with prayer, out of a few million people coincidence
will provide what some will claim is an answer to a prayer.
But it’s usually something relatively trivial, that could easily be
accomplished by men. Not a real demonstration of almighty
power like a cure for advanced cancer or a restored limb.
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minion says:
May 8, 2015 at 6:15 pm
Hello their!
Cedars you nailed it.
Let me share a real-time experience, the other day my wife & I watched the May TV BC , with all the buzz of WT tv – with in 20 minutes you will not believe what she said, “OK I get it, give more money to Jehovah & more time”, she then grab the TV remote, I think she meant more field service time.
I was in shock & awe. . . yeah right,
Did anyone else hear what Lett said, ” thank you for all your donations, that little box with a slot the World Wide Work donation box”. Their was a letter read recently at the KH with instructions to remove this little box with a slot WWW. Rumor has it – it was alleged due to money laundering. At our KH per the WT letter read we removed this little box with the slot marked WWW. It does not exist in our KH, we only have one little box with a slot, marked local donations.
I wonder if this strategy back fired, the R&F might have thought OK only 1 box = 1 donations not 2. Maybe ?.?
Then you had the forgiven of all KH loans letters, and the updated letter – this tells me there might be a power struggle at WT, why send an updated letter with more clarity or more confusion, your choice.
Keep up the good work advancing Kingdom clarity.
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Pickled brain says:
May 8, 2015 at 6:46 pm
@Anonymous. YOUR LAST Comment has Really Hit the Nail on the Head!! I sat down with my Wife last Night & watched Stephen Lett BEG for MONEY & Time from TIRED,EXHAUSTED JWs & WAITING For the END to COME of the Last Days for 101 years since 1914 . I said to my Wife if you keep Changing Interpretation of Prophecy time& time again & Beg for money from Hard Working Brothers who are Struggling to survive & Look at the PLUSH, LUXURIOUS Buildings being planned with Gym& running track at GB HQ in Warwick & En-Suite Facilities at the Apartment Blocks to house all the workers & my Wife said we must look how we can Donate More . !!! DELUDED??? Or Can’t Admit the BIG MISTAKE in Your WHOLE LIFE has been WASTED Slaving for an American PUBLISHING Corporation who I could make a better Stab at interpreting Scripture than they can . The biggest mistake is keep Flip Flopping Doctrines & leaving Evidence on the Printed Page what People can compare!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 8, 2015 at 6:56 pm
@Anonymous . Just to add to your point about the GB taking Questions from Apostates… Jesus spoke with Judas quite freely & sat down & ate a meal with him & let him associate with all the other brothers(11 apostles) Also Jesus viewed the Pharisees& Saducees as Apostates from the Jewish Religion because they IMPOSED Heavy Burdens on the people (a bit like the GB do),Yet Jesus quite Freely spoke & ate with these Apostate Priests on a day to day basis so WHY Do the GB Encourage SHUNNING of Teenagers & anyone else who FOOLISHLY got Baptised at 11,12,13,14,15,16 when they didn’t have a FLIPPING CLUE what they were getting involved in !!!!
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DAC says:
May 8, 2015 at 8:11 pm
Watching Stephen Lett, it would not surprise me at all if a spring popped out of his ear and he started to wind down. They’re not people, they’re Govbots!!! Run for your lives, and secure your bank accounts!
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:02 pm
Would anyone care to offer an opinion on that bit in the segment of the unemployed guy who said “because I was newly baptized my prayers would be more readily answered…”
I haven’t heard that reasoning before. Does the WTS really say that, if so, what is there reasoning? Why would a newly baptized person have their prayers answered before a long-term faithful one?
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MrFair says:
May 9, 2015 at 7:19 am
Reasons or reasoning? You’re asking too much :-) I imagine that those kind of questions led or are leading you out of the org. I thought that that was an interesting and confusing statement myself and here is what came to my mind: The dedication and baptism talk always highlights the fact that as newly baptized ones they will be a special target of Satan (based on Jesus’ baptism/ tentative narrative?). Maybe they figure, that as a special target of Satan, they get special attention from Jehovah until the next batch of recruits get dunked. The second part would be the idea, also propounded in the dedication and baptism talk, that newly baptized ones are now entering into a real relationship with Jehovah that they haven’t truly experienced up to this point. As for the long time faithful servants, they must be so firm and steadfast after years of experience, that they can “can wait on Jehovah” a little while. As far as any scriptural reasoning, I’ve personally never seen anything in the bible that would support this particular idea but I’m open to correction.
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MrFair says:
May 9, 2015 at 7:21 am
Correction – Jesus baptism/ temptation narrative*
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CovertSpiff says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:27 am
I’ve heard that one before as well, and it confused the hell out of me. It was at the baptism talk last year in London Twickenham. The speaker was talking about “how the newly baptised finally have unrestricted access to Jehovah in prayer.”
I’d never head that before (I was rapidly waking up at the time and on the alert for BS like this) and quizzed many elders about it, none of whom could explain or back it back form the scriptures.
I’d always been taught that Jehovah was the “hearer of prayer” and that your status as a baptised or unbaptised person had no bearing on that. One or two I spoke to tried to give some vague justification, but none of it made any sense or had any scriptural backing, and then when I pressed home the point that brothers giving baptism talks should not be making points they cannot back up scripturally, the conversations always came to an icy halt.
It was one of the many examples of BS from high ranking members who should have known better than made me realise they were just stumbling, bumbling men.
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Bearwoody says:
May 8, 2015 at 9:54 pm
Well, the GB certainly “primed the pump” (as we in the States would say) when that talk was given last year that said that all the Witnesses should do anything the GB asks in the future, no matter how odd and unusual it would seem. How disappointing! I imagined that there would be some sort of edict that would come down from the GB that when the great tribulation begins, everyone should climb up on their rooftops and dance a little jig. Or start drinking ketchup in their coffee. But all they were preparing us for was yet another money beg. And here I was really looking forward to something original. This makes me feel the same way I did on Jan 1, 1976.
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Sheree says:
May 9, 2015 at 6:22 am
I think you hit the nail on the head there. A money-grubbing was the strange and unusual order. Let’s watch how this unfolds.
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Charles Costante says:
May 8, 2015 at 10:12 pm
“…….. are members of the governing body as deluded as their followers? Are they victims of their own fallacies or is there any reason to believe that seven elderly men in Brooklyn are purposely misleading the flock?”
Curious Student, I think they’re just as deluded as their followers. If they became Witnesses when they were very young or were born into it, they would have been brainwashed. If they became one as an adult, it was probably because they needed an oar to help them navigate through life’s downs and give them some sort of hope. The problem arises much later when they’re given positions of authority (elders, circuit or branch overseers etc.) and they get a taste of power. “Power activates the very same reward circuitry in the brain and creates an addictive ‘high’ in much the same way as drug addiction.” (http://theconversation.com/the-neurochemistry-of-power-has-implications-for-political-change-23844). Even if they do suffer from the occasional twinge of doubt about what they been taught to believe, they will suppress it because the need to get a ‘high’ from the power they enjoy over the rank and file is much stronger.
Good luck with the thesis!
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SwimmingWild says:
May 9, 2015 at 12:26 am
Great post Cedars
@Charles Costante – I agree, my feeling is that the GB are deluded, rather than being totally cynical manipulators. Your link re the addictive nature of power looks like the explanation we need for “why” they do it. In part it says:
“Power, especially absolute and unchecked power, is intoxicating. Its effects occur at the cellular and neurochemical level.”
Consider the power exercised by the GB – “absolute and unchecked power”. There is a huge difference between that power and that of a politician (as the recent UK elections have shown with many long-standing members of parliament being rejected by voters). In contrast in the Org any criticism of the GB is met with expulsion, and isolation from family and friends.. How addictive must that total power be. The commensurate rewards of a comfortable apartment et cetera are probably just the mere trappings of power and not the key driver.
Consider how hard it would be to get such power in any other institution, especially with such a minimal education, and such limited capacity – as Letts displays in his quirky and bizarre TV show.
@Bearwoddy -It’s obvious that they had something in mind, something they were preparing everyone for. Very likely it was this – perhaps there is more of the same to come.
@anonymous – I was “born in” to this, and from the innocent question of a householder when I was 19 years old “and you believe this?” It took me 20 years before I hit an emotional crisis and could finally unpick myself from it. The conditioning is extremely powerful and deep – those 20 years I now recognised as a period of “cognitive dissonance” when I knew none of it made sense but couldn’t get rid of the belief.
The situation with your husband and family must be very difficult. Have you seen Cedars interview With Steven Hassan? It may be helpful.
Websites like this would have made a huge difference to my life – keep it up Cedars, you’re saving lives!
Regarding “giving”-my parents sold their perfectly pleasant bungalow in Cornwall UK in 1972 to move to a mobile home (trailer) – I’m fairly sure the available cash was sent to Brooklyn. I know at that time he tried to cash out his pension, expecting Armageddon by 1975. Of course he was not allowed to do that, which was fortunate as he lived to be 87.
SwimmingWild
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Wild Olive says:
May 9, 2015 at 5:12 am
As for the motivation of the GB my opinion is that they are deluded, not overtly evil.
I say this because Ime still in and know how the JW system works, you get carried along by the desire to please Jehovah,which is good,but this is achieved by following GB instructions that are policed by the layers of middle management, district overseers, circuit overseers elders and ministerial servants.
Your spirituality is measured by your climb up through the layers.
So you are put in a climb by default and all there is for you is to continue trying under the illusion that you are becoming more spiritual,when in reality you are becoming progressively institutionalised, I would garantee this is the journey of everyone of the GB and is their mindset,maybe, like Ray Franz, it might dawn what they have actually done. To then continue is a different problem
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Curious Student says:
May 9, 2015 at 7:00 pm
I think your statement that “you are put in a climb by default and all there is for you is to continue trying under the illusion that you are becoming more spiritual, when in reality you are becoming progressively institutionalised” makes a lot of sense. I had some moments of doubts during my “institutionalization” but going to Bethel was probably the turning point.
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Curious Student says:
May 9, 2015 at 7:32 pm
@Swimming Wild: Great point! This statement is very insightful:
“The commensurate rewards of a comfortable apartment et cetera are probably just the mere trappings of power and not the key driver.
Consider how hard it would be to get such power in any other institution, especially with such a minimal education, and such limited capacity”
That makes sense. I met several Bethelites that had being raised in poor communities and considered “a privilege” to live in the Brazilian Bethel. They enjoyed some basic conveniences in the branch premises that are considered luxury in underdeveloped countries. Some of them apparently saw their connections with international brothers as a passport for inexpensive international trips as well. Others feared having to leave their comfortable surroundings because of marriage. I can see how a governing body member would have a hard time losing some of these “trappings of power”, especially later on in life when most people resist changes. They also do not have the stamina, education and professional skills to restart all over again! Not to mention the absence of a retirement plan!
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 9, 2015 at 5:23 am
@Charles Costante, well said.
*** w62 5/15 p. 297 par. 2 The Faithful Creator ***
In this twentieth century there are multitudes of new gods, or old gods with new names. A group of twenty-five Catholic and Protestant theologians in America recently named some of these as “physical power and comfort,” “financial security,” “prestige,” “sex,” “science,” “social status,” “atomic power,” “Libido” and “war.” Even the Soviets have their gods, such as Marx, the lonely Lenin and “the god of fortresses.”—Dan. 11:38.
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Curious Student says:
May 9, 2015 at 6:54 pm
Good point Charles! Thank you for your feedback.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 9, 2015 at 5:13 am
I have to admit that I have completely to understand Jehovah’s Witnesses and their god. I tend to suspect they have different gods as they themselves acknowledge it in their publications.
*** w62 5/15 p. 297 par. 2 The Faithful Creator ***
In this twentieth century there are multitudes of new gods, or old gods with new names. A group of twenty-five Catholic and Protestant theologians in America recently named some of these as “physical power and comfort,” “financial security,” “prestige,” “sex,” “science,” “social status,” “atomic power,” “Libido” and “war.” Even the Soviets have their gods, such as Marx, the lonely Lenin and “the god of fortresses.”—Dan. 11:38.
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Sheree says:
May 9, 2015 at 6:17 am
I don’t think you need to make a video rebuttal since this article covers the money grubbing and lies so succinctly. Still, I look forward to your next video.
Even when I was a believing JW I always inwardly cringed when they made what I even then called called the “money grubbing” announcements at every assembly and convention. Now it’s becoming more extreme. We know they have zoodles of money, but they just aren’t telling everyone it’s going to pay for lawyers to defend them against pedophile cases.
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Siam says:
May 9, 2015 at 8:26 am
To sum up:
Don’t make money, give us your time instead
Don’t get educated, give us your mind instead
We need more money, give it to us now
This organization steals people’s potential by prohibiting education
It steals their time, through never ending service and meetings
It steals their families by forcing shunning of loved ones
Finally it steals their money for its own immoral purposes
All of this is what Jehovah wants or is it really just a poorly planned shakedown run by men?
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Pickled brain says:
May 9, 2015 at 10:44 am
@Siam. Your comment Echoes what most JWs feel but are Afraid to admit. There are& will be more comments for this GB Monthly Broadcast because it is SO BLATANT in its BEGGING for Money & no one EVEN the Most Ardent JW Likes to Part with their HARD EARNED MONEY!!!
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Steven says:
May 9, 2015 at 12:40 pm
Thank you for this site brother John – it is a great source of comfort.
When one talks about financing the world wide work and building program – are the anointed brothers that are not based at the US Headquarters (The memorial partakers) supported financially by the Society – does anyone know?
Correct me if I am wrong – just because these anointed are not directly contributing to the increasing light by being part of the US based writing / publishing team – it is not to say that they are without need for support.
My understanding is that this group of people would be setting the example in terms of putting godly things first and would therefore not have accumulated investments in property or business to see them through their old age – like most older witnesses?
I have often wondered about the role of this silent group of the 144,000 and the fact that they are rarely mentioned or there role explained in detail in any literature.
Any reasoning person would think that the governing body would at least acknowledge or have some form of spiritual interchange with this group of brothers and sisters?
Thanks again for the hard work John!
Steven
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Ted says:
May 9, 2015 at 1:06 pm
Are they deluded or just evil ? if their actions continually
produce evil results then the intent is irrelevant, the results
are the same.
Hitler on a personal level was said to be a most charming
man, nevertheless he was delusional. In his book
“Mein Kampf” He said he was acting in accord with “God’s
Will” and that he had been chosen by “Providence”.
( Sounds familiar ! )
While not yet equalling the number killed in the “Holocaust,
this religion with its gb, are directly responsible for thousands
of unnecessary deaths of young and old.
For some reason ! The wt, doesn’t publish figures on the number
of deaths caused by the erroneous blood doctrine. “The American
Journal of Medicine” however gave figures for the year 1993.-
That year, out of 1,400. cases of surgery performed on JWs,
1, in every 100 died refusing blood. That number compounded
by the several million members plus the number of years the
the doctrine has been in operation adds up to many thousands.
Add to this the abnormally high suicide rate undoubtedly caused
by Shunning, Fear, Guilt, continual pressure to live up to an
impossible standard and to keep doing and giving “More”
Many other harmful things could be added to the list. But to
answer the question, Are they Deluded or Evil ? In my
opinion the answer is “Both”, and donating money to them
would be immoral.
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Curious Student says:
May 9, 2015 at 7:05 pm
@ TedL: Thank you. How is that different from the role that I personally played when I “helped” some Bible students to become Witnesses? They are still in the organization. I sincerely believed we had the truth.
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sparlock says:
May 9, 2015 at 8:14 pm
The LORD needs your MONEY!!!
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John Z says:
May 9, 2015 at 9:52 pm
Thanks to jwsurvey I woke up last year. This broadcast made me feel so good about the decision I made to leave the org. Thanks Steven Lett
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Pickled brain says:
May 9, 2015 at 11:15 pm
@Stephen Lett . YOU ARE STUPID saying in your broadcast ‘You are not SHY ASKING for MONEY ‘
BIG BIG MISTAKE when Millions of JWs are struggling to Pay Bills & Taxes ,Losing Jobs,etc JWs have to Cut out Non Essentials if not enough money coming in!!! Stephen me old Buddy how about cutting back Expenditure on Luxurious Buildings. CLOSE DOWN STANLEY HALLS & sell it off as it is Obscenley Luxurious & God doesn’t dwell in handmade temples as Apostle Paul says in Acts!
CLOSE DOWN all those Teaching SCHOOLS such as Paterson , Elders Schools,Pioneer Schools,School for Christian Couples,MTS,Etc,Etc.
WE HAVE The BIBLE !! Jesus & Paul Condemned the Pharisees for all their RULES & learning in Schools. & The Bible is Enough. In JW Land since 1879 over 150 different books have been produced.. MOST NOW CANNOT be USED because of OLD LIGHT!! What a waste of MONEY on PRINTING PRESSES & BUILDINGs to House them in & Paper & ink& manpower!!!
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mugz says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:13 am
Am gonna tell the clown mr.lett…..down worry…..leave it in jehovah’s hands…….
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Excelsior! says:
May 10, 2015 at 7:01 am
Folks,
I think that the leadership of the WTBTS are not deluded. They know what they are doing is wrong and unchristian, but they do it anyway!
We can agree to disagree, but we are making the mistake of thinking that the leadership of the WTBTS are like us. They are not like us. They do not care about anyone else except themselves. We want to help others, which is why we comment and conduct our activism. The leadership of the WTBTS do not want to help others.
They are sociopaths who are unable to care for others, because other people are merely an abstraction to them.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Ted says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:40 am
@Curious Student. Thanks for your response. To try to answer
your question.- Every individual has to examine their own
motives and take responsibility for their own actions.
I can only answer for myself. When I concluded that this was
cult poison, I stopped spreading the poison and made my
reasons known to others I had brought into the org,
One such person was a man now serving as an elder and after
a long discussion with him he admitted the WTS, was a false
prophet org, yet he still shares in all their activities. What are
his motives ? I suggest the following reasons.
His position brings him kudos among the JW, community, he has
extended family in the org, and he is in business with several
other JWs. These things I believe, cause him to rationalise the
cognitive difference and cling to the delusion and continue to act
dishonestly, otherwise how would he sleep ?
Similar reasons I believe apply to some or all of the gb.
Good luck with your thesis
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 10:01 am
Unbelievable: http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/20680-may-2015-jw-broadcasting/?p=293965
This person is considering cashing in life insurance policies and avoiding fresh food to make more money for the society.
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:03 pm
@Finn Sawyer, I saw that too. I thought that it had to be a joke. It is just too cultish to believe.
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Gareth says:
May 11, 2015 at 1:35 am
Wow, it feels like reading jehovahstrumpet.com!
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 10:02 am
@Ted . Your comment really Sums up the reasons why people stay in the truth. I have just returned from the meeting & Anyone who was there at the watchtower study CANNOT BELIEVE It Is the TRUTH when you read Pages 16-26 of Mar15th 2015 Watchtower.It talks about Types & Antitypes & WHAT WE USED TO BELIEVE & What we Believe Now . IT IS UTTER INSANITY to say the F& D Slave are giving Food at the Proper Time !!
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anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 11:44 am
@Pickled brain, I listened to Sam Herd’s talk again this morning from the 138th Gilead’s graduation talks and at 2 hours and 19 minutes, Herd starts talking about all the reading the Governing Body does. He said that most of their time is spent in reading what writing produces. He said it rolls out page after page after page and they spend even week-ends reading. He said it was Jehovah providing that food and when they get tired of reading, they prop themselves and keep on reading. That tells me that it’s the writing department at Bethel who are providing the food that “Jehovah” is providing and unlike the July 15, 2013 Watchtower said, it’s not the Governing Body who said that they were the slave providing the food, from God but it’s the writing department who is providing the food. That tells me that the whole thing is a fraud. Is Jehovah, the writing department? Is the writing department the slave that is providing the food at the proper time? Why can’t the rank and file put those pieces together and figure out that they are being made fools of and they are putting themselves in front of the camera all the time, letting those brain farts fly for all the world to hear and see???? Those men don’t do any research and they don’t write their talks and they don’t know what the Bible really says and they don’t conduct Bible studies and they don’t sacrifice anything. In that March 15, 2015 Watchtower study magazine that you were talking about on page 14, it says of the anointed ones “They count the cost of faithful service, realizing from the outset that their assignment will mean giving up many of the material advantages available in Satan’s world.” It also goes on to say that they wouldn’t be “materialistic” as well. As far as I can see, all the Governing Body do is give talks and read what the writing department writes and live high off the hog from donations.
When Ray Franz went to Bethel, he was very disappointed because he was led to believe that the Governing Body were the ones doing all the research to get the understanding of Scripture and then put it in the Watchtower but he found out that all the Governing Body was concerned about was policy, and Samuel Herd told us in that talk that that is true. All they do is give talks and worry about getting money to acquire more property and appointing and deleting elders and making more policies. They aren’t concerned with the Bible at all. They use every JWbroadcasting episode to make people give money to them and to make people feel guilty if they aren’t pioneers.
In that talk in the 138th Gilead graduation, Herd jokes that it’s persecution for the Lord’s sake to have their pictures taken so many times. Why would they be having their pictures taken all the time if they are humble servants? The Amish refuse to have their pictures taken for that very reason. They think it is not humble and that is why they dress plain and don’t wear make-up etc. and don’t drive cars and have tractors. They despise pride. The Governing Body are just the opposite. They love having their pictures taken like they are movie stars. Humility is not one of their strong suits.
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Queen Elsa says:
May 10, 2015 at 6:31 pm
I want there too at the watchtower and all I could think of was how preposterous it all sounded and was I the only one who thought so?!!
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Queen Elsa says:
May 10, 2015 at 6:32 pm
Was* grr
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SwimmingWild says:
May 10, 2015 at 11:09 am
@Ted -I agree with your comment:
“Are they deluded or just evil ? if their actions continually produce evil results then the intent is irrelevant, the results are the same.”
As has been said “Ye shall know them by their fruits.”
The outcome is what matters, and I agree “deluded or evil” is a mildly interesting musing. However most of us have likely delivered bad stuff to the outcasts when we were on board, so even though we “only” followed orders, we still did.
As the physicist Steven Weinberg said:
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
SwimmingWild
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 11:25 am
@Swimming Wild. Your Quote about Good People to do Evil Things it Takes Religion is so true when you think of the Brutality of the Crusades & those burnt alive for translating the Bible & what ISIS are doing now in Torturing and Beheading anyone,Raping Christian women and Butchering anyone who doesn’t follow their brand of Islam.!!
The GB IMPOSE MENTAL CRUELTY on those who don’t agree with them 100% on Doctrine by calling them Apostate & Shunning them resulting in Suicide& Depression & Breaking up Families!!
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Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:10 pm
Oh dear
You must be tearing your hair out at the
News that planning permission has been granted for the Britain branch move to new premises. Millions of pounds on new facilities. You are like a line voice in the wilderness. A kind of King Canute trying to stop a tidal wave of expansion. The funds will keep coming in and thousands of new Kingdom Halls will be constructed because needs have to be met.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:26 pm
@Lennylyx. There might be a Tidal wave of Expansion BUT ANYONE Familiar with Economics will Realise IT CANNOT Be SUSTAINED as ONCE Built it Costs Money to Maintain & as Now the GB are STRUGGLING for FUNDS it will all CRUMBLE. It Costs Tens of Millions to sustain TV Station,Massive Website,Buildings,RTO Offices,Manpower like Branch Servants,Circuit Overseers,GB, Helpers,Maintenance Staff,Etc & there will be JWs leaving in their tens of thousands as the END DOES NOT COME & New Light keeps changing!!
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Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Pickled brain
Exactly what evidence do you have that there have been suicides depression and family break ups due to disfellowshipping by Jehovah’s Witnesses
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Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:34 pm
Pickled brain
As the brother said during the broadcast, there were doomsday merchants forecasting the demise of the organisation when the decision was taken not to charge for literature and rely completely on VOLUNTARY donations
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Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:44 pm
Pickled brain
You seem to be comparing the Jehovah’s Witnesses organisation to a typical profit seeking business
They don’t use typical company economic profit and loss models. Nobody is coerced into contributing
As the brother said during the broadcast you can attend meetings for years and not contribute a penny and no one would know about it.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:46 pm
There is no evidence the WTS relied on the sales of the magazines to finance its work. I suspect that when they went to the voluntary donation rule their cash flow actually increased, because it tied the donations to “what your heart motivated you to do” rather than how successful you were in selling magazines. It made it so that even inactive unproductive ones were obligated to donate from their heart. It was a stroke of genius.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Lennylynx, this comment makes me think you have either not been a JW long or have your head 100% in the sand. If you are this much in denial, I’m not even sure your comment is worth further reply.
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Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:46 pm
What exactly do you find objectionable about my comments
If they are nonsensical to you, explain why.
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Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 1:00 pm
I fully understand the ignorance of the comments thus far due your observing from the outside looking in. You seem to be suggesting that some kind of mind control is being used in order to persuade members to contribute
Financial matters are very rarely discussed at meetings
Every penny contributed is accounted for
No shareholders
No contributions invested in wonga loans etc no contributions being used in shady deals
No contributions financing mansions, limos and extravagant lifestyles etc. If funds were being misused the contributors to this blog would be the first to shout out about it
Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:18 pm
Lennylynx, I am not from the outside looking in. On the contrary, I was born into the JW’s, regular pioneered, went to Bethel and have attended meetings up until quite recently, although I only did so out of a feeling of obligation for the past 10 years or so. So, you might say I can see clearly on both sides. You however, are from the inside looking out, and are at a disadvantage, in my opinion.
The comment of yours to which I take exception is this:
Lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Pickled brain
Exactly what evidence do you have that there have been suicides depression and family break ups due to disfellowshipping by Jehovah’s Witnesses
To be honest I have no personal experience knowing someone who has committed suicide, so I won’t comment on that.
But, to your point of disfellowshipping, having been involved in the religion my entire life I have known many families that were divided due to disfellowshipping or due to the JW culture, meaning how some “spiritually strong” JW families will distance and all but complete separate themselves from their other families members that aren’t in “the truth.” Parents disown their children. Children disown their parents. Siblings disown their flesh and blood. If you are really a JW you know what I am referring to you, and for you to deny it implies you are lying or are in denial. That is why I object to your comment.
To your other point, I also don’t believe funds are misused or misappropriated. In my experience I have never witnesssed or even heard about any type of financial corruption. Some seem to suggest the GB or bethelites line their pockets. I have never seen any evidence for that, though their sincerity and honesty in that regard is not in itself evidence for truth in other things.
lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:12 pm
finn sawyer,
Exactly what do you believe I’m in denial about.
Thus far I’ve given you a response based on FACTS of my experience and of others.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:22 pm
I believe I stated clearly what you are in denial about. For you to say the JW faith does not break up families isn’t really up for debate. It is a fact.
shannon says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:50 pm
I for one , can give you many examples in my own family of suicides as well as depression, because of this cult!..
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Ruben says:
May 10, 2015 at 12:51 pm
Simplemente esos vividores del CG (GB) no tienen madre!
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:25 pm
@Lennylynx.
Sorry I couldn’t reply earlier, but my wife was in the same room watching TV & I couldn’t reply to you as she is a Loyal JW & if she saw me Logging on to this APOSTATE???? Website she would have reports me to the Elders & I would have been REPROVED & DISFELLOWSHIPPED if I continued on this website!! The same as you will be Dear Lennylynx if you continue on this site & are found out!!! SINISTER???
I could answer all your questions BUT I want to be GENTLE & KIND with you because 34 years ago I would have Replied like you to Myself!! Oh the Irony of it . BUT I CONGRATULATE You Lenny for associating with US APOSTATES !!! There is hope for you. TAKE CARE & Do Some Real Research???
YOU WILL LEARN in TIME, say 20 Years when Armageddon hasn’t come!!
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:05 pm
No organisation can have any hope of surviving on a financial model based on what the heart motivates to do, yet Jehovah’s Witnesses do. there are no tithes and tithing. There are no lottery funds, garage sales, coffee mornings, fetes, passing around collection plates. there are no fees for marriages, funerals.
There are no fund raising charity events, bingo nights, charity car washes, charity quiz nights, ferret races, charity auctions, 50/50 raffles, bring and buy events, car wash, concerts, christmas fairs, dinner dance, easter egg hunts, handbag sale, jumble sales, easter egg hunts, fancy dress balls, ladies nights, talent competitions, cutest baby picture fund raising. No reliance on National Lottery. No Arts and crafts fair, collections, no giving up chocolate for a day, no dance-athons , no discos, no dress down days, no egg and spoon races, no fun runs, no face painting competitions, no sponsorships of any kind, no stalls, no talent contests, no three legged races, no sponsored walks, the list goes on and on and on.
In Britain we congregate in comfortable Kingdom Halls. Typical standard build include kitchen , disabled facilities, washroom facilities, comfotable seating(armrests) carpet etc. If the weather is cold the gas boilers come on automatically and heat the hall. There are adequate car park facilities as a must these days required by planning authorities. These halls have to be supported and they are supported by VOLUNTARY DONATIONS. Members of the public attend also, and they are not coerced into contributing. The literature costs money to produce and they are freely distributed.
One of the points made during the broadcast was the fact that thousands of new Kingdom Halls were needed to meet demand and that funds would be directed into this area. However much you despise the expansion will have no affect WHATSOEVER on the ever increasing numbers who are proud to be dedicated servants of Jehovah God.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:39 pm
&Lennylynx!!
All This Bad Association with US APOSTATES!! You are DISOBEYING the F&D Slave!! Naughty! Naughty! VOLUNTARY DONATIONS!! Don’t make me Smile!! I call it EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL!!
Anyway Larry if you believe The Truth sets you FREE& the GB are setting you Free… Here’s a Question?
Go & TELL the Elders in your Congregation you have been innocently commenting on this website & see their Response & THEN After Telling them Carry on Commenting on this website & go back to those same Elders & tell them you went against their Advice & see what happens to you . OH ITS GOOD to be FREE! Really Free from the FLIP FLOPPING of Doctrine of 7 American Men in New York. I Have a GOOD FEELING about you Lenny! I Feel you PROTEST TOO MUCH!! I find those who FANATICALLY Defend the GB a few Years Later End up finding out REAL FACTS & leave the Organisation!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:58 pm
@Anonymous . Sorry I didn’t reply to your earlier comment & yes I agree that Samuel Herd did insinuate the GB read on what the Writing Department provides for them which is made up of the Great Crowd. I have been to the Watchtower Study today & I commented on NEW LIGHT Again on paragraph 6 on page 9 of March 15th 2015 WT about F&D Slave . When you read this article pages 7-11 ANY Rational & Logical Person will Realise the UTTER INSANITY of the CHANGING DOCTRINE of the GB!!! I Think the Brother taking the Watchtower is getting Suspicious of the IRONY in my Voice when I keep Referring to this LOVELY NEW LIGHT!!!
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David says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:31 pm
Sincere people will contribute wholeheartedly when they know they are doing it for God. The problem is that the organisation misrepresent the teaching of Jesus. The only way contributions were used in the first century were to help people in need. Christians only meet at their houses. Also Jesus taught that he is the only master and we are all the same. The GB misinterpret two sentences of the Bible to controll other people (all organised religions leaders find an excuse to justify their power). Even Paul called himself a slave applying Mathew 24:45. We are all slaves. Jesus gave us the freedom to test everything and not blindly obeying other humans.
You cannot base your life on other humans thoughts and ever changing opinions, that would be secure disaster.
From the JW videos you can see they are not just investing in what is strictly important for preaching. You see fountains, beautiful theatres, luxury apartments, pinky rings, rolexes, all this contrasting with many people struggling for the basic things. Is this Jesus mentality? NO. Would he be concerned building a headquarter/turisti resort like the one the JW are bulding? NO
The GB orders what we should or not should not believe, if we not agree with men and not God we are at risk of losing family relations for ever. JWs want freedom but deny freedom to others not because for any sins but just for not agreeing with 7 guys in america. The same guys have taught extremely embarrassing teachings (Pyramidology, 1874, 1925 and 1975, faithful slave applied to them instead to all Christians) for their entire history they have humiliated and ruined the life of thousand of innocente people. The fact that we are in 2015 shows that their entire propaganda of Armageddon being around the corner has been totally false. Time will pass and will make evident that they have been another example of human stupidity, selffishness and cruelty.
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shannon says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:59 pm
Hey Lennylynx..I take it as a good sign you are on here…you are searching and unafraid of what you will find..I was like that 3 yrs ago. I found this wonderful site and could not get enough! It truly opened my eyes. I lost my family, because I questioned them about the flips and “new light” crap, they got afraid because they had no answers. I am without a family, sad but feel relieved I am no longer being duped by a cult….keep in touch, we’ll get you there!
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anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:41 pm
@lennylynx. I enjoyed your comment. How long have you been in the “truth?” I have been since the early 1960’s and this is the way it was at assemblies for many, many years. There were brothers and sisters who would stay up all night preparing food for the assembly the next day and we would have to pay for that food and the Society made money on that food that the brothers and sisters did the work for it for free. It was that way at all assemblies. During breaks, kids would go around offering ice cream bars and sodas for sale and potato chips etc. and they made money off of that plus there were always contribution boxes. When the society stopped with that, people were just charged the same amount (expense report read) and people put in the same amount that they did when they were buying the food.
The Society charges rent for assembly halls that already paid off for each assembly and the assembly hall that I go to, they have assemblies every week-end of the year and the Society gets from $5,000 to $10,000 from contributions that the brothers decide to send to the Society but actually the Society has told them in advance how much they want and that amount is read into the accounts report ahead of getting the money from the brothers and sisters and our assembly hall has been paid off for years.
All the Kingdom Halls were paying off loans for their remodels and the Society said a few months ago (like Lett alluded to) that those loans didn’t have to be paid off but in the second, third and fourth page of that letter, even if the loan had been paid off (ours was) the congregation was expected to keep sending in that amount anyway and our congregation is sending them $725 a month even though the hall has been paid off for years now. Regardless if any congregation had money in the bank, they were told that they had to send in any money over what it would take to run the hall for 3 months. Our congregation was saving up $15,000 for a badly needed new parking lot and our congregation sent them $7,500 of that money and now they will probably send in the rest because of Lett’s jwbroadcasting talk and the brothers and sisters will probably save up again for that new parking lot and I would bet you that because of that latest talk of Stephen Lett, they won’t ask it of the Society, even though the Society last year made it look like that would be the case. Like Lett said, what happened was the opposite of what they intended with that little scheme of theirs. The real reason they decided for congregations that they didn’t have to pay off their “loans” was because they were charging interest on those loans and the government was going to come down on them for that and look into their charity status. In other words, they were forced to do it that way but they were very deceitful when they only read the first page of that 4 page letter.
There is absolutely no accounting for where that money goes like what you said. That is what we would all like to know. If you listened to Lett’s talk, he said “a large” amount of the money that it takes to run everything comes from contributions. They have a lot of money in stocks and bonds. They do buy mansions and new cars and luxury apartment buildings unlike what you said.
They hide their money and they don’t account for any of it. You are right in that they don’t tithe because they don’t have to. People in the organization feel that they are supporting Jehovah when they give. They think they are helping God spread the gospel and it gives them a good feeling to do that but they are being deceived when that is what they think is happening with their money.
Jesus didn’t have a home and neither did the early apostles. When I first became a witness, we rented schools for assemblies. The Society owns every single Kingdom Hall and Assembly Hall in the whole world. If the Society were to fail, they’d be the richest corporation on the face of the earth and they know it.
Why should congregations pay off loans when they don’t even own the Kingdom Hall when they get done paying it off?
The only reason we don’t charge for the magazines is so that the Society doesn’t have to answer to the I.R.S. That is the only reason. When they stopped charging for the magazines, we were still expected to reimburse the Society for the literature and then when we placed the literature, we were supposed to ask for a donation and then that donation was supposed to go into the contribution box as well so in effect, they were getting paid twice for the same literature where before we paid for the magazines ($.50 for the pair) and then we’d ask the householder and we were supposed to put that $.50 into the contribution box as well so all along they’d be getting paid two times for the magazines and those magazines and books were produced at a profit because of free labor.
The Society has always made money on the literature. That is why they don’t have to sell lottery lottery tickets and sell cookies and have bingo parties. They make money on the literature and assemblies. That is how they started and that is how they got all their money way back when Charles Russell was running it.
They have so much money hidden away and nobody has any idea where it all goes. One thing is for sure. A lot of it is going to pay off child sex abuse lawsuits and you will never see that in any of the literature.
If you can come up with where all the money is going, I think we’d all love to see it.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Your comment has left me confused
Why not refer to “Pickled Brain’s” comment “There might be a Tidal wave of Expansion BUT ANYONE Familiar with Economics will Realise IT CANNOT Be SUSTAINED as ONCE Built it Costs Money to Maintain & as Now the GB are STRUGGLING for FUNDS it will all CRUMBLE. It Costs Tens of Millions to sustain TV Station,Massive Website,Buildings,RTO Offices,Manpower like Branch Servants,Circuit Overseers,GB, Helpers,Maintenance Staff,Etc & there will be JWs leaving in their tens of thousands as the END DOES NOT COME & New Light keeps changing!!”
This is the response of a person eager to see the organisation collapse, but strangely with no good motive for this endeavor. At least he’s right on a few observations. It does cost tens of millions to sustain TV Station,Massive Website,Buildings,RTO Offices. Manpower like Branch Servants,Circuit Overseers,GB members however survive on meager living expenses ( no salary, no pension, no holiday pay, no health insurance etc.)
Helpers,Maintenance Staff,Etc are all voluntary workers at Bethel facilities.
WHY IS IT THAT YOU DO NOT HEAR OF ANY NEWS REPORTS ABOUT FINANCIAL SCANDALS INVOLVING GOVERNING BODY AND JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES. THINK ABOUT IT, ITS THE KIND OF NEWS THAT ANY MEDIA OUTLET LIKE THE BBC (PANORAMA, WATCHDOG, OR ANY OF IT’S NEWS PROGRAMMES). SKY, ITV , CHANNEL 4 (DISPATCHES) CHANNEL 5 , ALL THE NEWSPAPERS INTERNET NEWS BROADCASTERS ALL OVER THE WORLD WOULD IMMEDIATELY JUMP ON. JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES ARE PROBABLY THE MOST TRANSPARENT ORGANISATION IN THE WORLD ON THESE FINANCIAL MATTERS. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE ORGANISATION TO GET AWAY WITH ANY FINANCIAL IMPROPRIETY. MEMBERS OF GOVERNING BODY HAVE NO PERSONAL INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN ACCUMULATING WEALTH.
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shannon says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Why do you have to shout? We are here to help you…calm down and listen to these fact based comments…you would not be able to talk to your elders this way so please have some courtesy
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JJ says:
May 11, 2015 at 4:47 am
Yes, the Assembly Hall that was paid off but required about $10,000.00 every weekend was one of the things that really got my suspicions up!
We built our Assembly Hall before 1975 and I remember my father taking me there as a very young boy. (The CN Tower was going up at the same time and one old brother said, “Jehovah is going to knock that tower down!” Well… that’s just another prediction that never came true but we don’t like to mention those, do we?!?)
The audience would always gasp when the ‘accounts’ were read on Sunday morning (so that you had enough time to run to the contribution box and put a huge cheque in to cover the expenses) when the amount was always larger than the last time. It would grow every six months, from $2,000.00 to 3, 4 and when I left it was $10,000.00. They were obviously seeing how much they could squeeze out of us! Very clever!
I asked my P.O.,because he was the guy in charge of the accounts for our circuit (it now sounds like we were named after an electrical circuit to me!) what could possibly cost so much. He gave me that Pharisee-face and just said, “Things are very expensive!” As if I don’t pay for my own heat, water, electricity, maintenance, toilet paper, soap and other incidentals at home! I know what it costs to run a household and I can quickly estimate what it would cost to run an assembly hall. Except that they don’t pay property taxes! So they are cheaper than me, on a per capita basis!
I started to get pissed off from the emotion blackmail to pull as much money out of the brothers as possible. Oh, and I’ve see the tables of money at the Conventions! It’s always in a secret room with the most trusted brothers and we were told it was so they wouldn’t be robbed. Criminals are always the most careful about their money because they expect others to be as evil as they are themselves!
The Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t need Bingo Halls and bake sales because they want more money than these stupid and trival opportunities present. They want it all! Your house, pension fund, stocks, bonds, insurance, gold, diamonds, everything! The World is going to end and this is how you pay for your entry to Paradise. You don’t need this stuff (but somehow they do).
The building work of Kingdom Halls and stuff is just a smokescreen. My mother believes that too. “They use all the money to build Kingdom Halls and Bethels”. So you donate so they can acquire more property and they never build one school, orphanage, hospital or even dig one well. It’s brilliant, really. Oh yeah, they don’t “charge” for weddings or funerals, but they expect a donation and a ‘green handshake’. Believe me, the elders know who the “big donators” are and they are treated with more respect than the people who don’t/can’t give as much.
I used to work hard, and I gave a lot of money to the Witness Organization because I believed in them. I wanted it to be true. I trusted that they were honest. Just ask the questions that I did, to the people that know, and see the answers you get. I’m sure you will get the same responses that I did and if you’re an honest person, you will feel how truthful they are treating you.
It’s hard for honest and trusting people to believe that there are others in this world that will completely decide you. Take a physiology course and you will find out how the psychopathic mind operates. We make it too easy for them to take advantage of us.
My wife can’t believe that the GB are benefiting from any of this. She believes that they don’t live in luxury. Well there isn’t an old guy alive today that wouldn’t love to have a powerful, cushy ‘job’, flying all over the world, having all of your needs and wants catered to, and having millions of adoring fans hanging off of your every word for a ‘hint’ of inspired prophecy, like these 7 bumblers have. The best part of the ‘job’ is you are never wrong, you can never really screw up and you never have to produce anything.
My father-in-law was like a mini-GB with his friends and realities in their small town. The JW religion is his hobby and he just loves it. All he gets out of it is the power and the pot luck meals at every KH build, drama rehearsal and other event. But that was enough for him! If he could have gotten himself and his ugly wife into Bethel that wouldn’t have been the whipped cream on his cake! A wonderful retirement with all of his worries gone. Of course, he never did get included in the ‘Big House’ and now things are looking too rosy for him.
Maybe Jehovah’s Loving Organization (as he likes to call it) will come and help him out, for all of his years of work? Don’t think so? Neither do I.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:42 pm
I appreciate your comments and as a former Jehovah’s Witness you have no doubt seen the pain and heartache in dis-fellow shipping situations. When a dis-fellowshipping takes place the ones who remain in the truth are not cold hearted individuals who just automatically shut off emotions. I’ve seen much tears and distress by those who do have to stop associating with the disfellowshipped person. My brother was disfellowshipped. He and I left the organisation at about the same time although I was not baptised. He was re-instated and we’re both “in the truth” now.
Disfellowshipping is based on Bible Scriptural procedure in the hope that unrepentant persons recognize that they need to try and get back into a relationship with God.
What I can’t do is live in denial that the Bible is wrong on this issue. As I’m sure you are aware, we adhere to Bible commands and principles.
If i deny the Bibles view then in effect I’m saying God is wrong. He’s been around longer than I have so why should I question his authority on the subject.
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anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:32 pm
@lennylynx, Stephen Lett doesn’t know his Bible when he said that the Israelites gave to the tabernacle willingly. These are just some of the scriptures where the Israelites were required to give of their first fruits and money: Ezekiel 20:40; Deut. 14:28,29; Deut. 16:16-18, Exodus 30:11-14. And by the way, how in the world, did those Israelite “slaves” come up with all that gold and “first fruits” of their produce that they were supposed to donate to the priests, when they were living in a desert and a wilderness anyway? Did they plow and plant fields with seeds in the desert and wilderness so as to have all this flour and oils etc. when half the time they didn’t even have anything to eat except manna and quails and couldn’t find water except for when Moses would strike a rock or when he’d throw a magic tree into a river? I for one, can’t even believe the Exodus story in the first place, let alone believe that account about all the gold that the Israelites “willingly” gave to Moses for the priests and the upkeep of the tabernacle.
Another scripture that compelled them to give to the priests is at Lev. 26: 27-31 where it graphically said what would happened to them if they disobeyed God is that they would have to eat the flesh of their own children and God would lay their carcasses upon the carcasses of their dungy idols and God would abhor them.
That is kind of fear Lett was meaning when he said that you could go to the Kingdom Hall for 20 years and even though the brothers at the hall wouldn’t know if you didn’t put any money in the contribution box, that Jehovah would know. Even though he said you could do that and get away with it, you were “getting away with it” and in other words, you were committing some kind of crime against Jehovah. He didn’t have to come right out and say it but it was implied.
The first importance of the Society should be studying the Bible with people. You don’t even need an other books or Awakes and magazines for that, except for a Bible. That is all you need and anybody can go to any book store and buy a Bible. You don’t need huge factories with donated labor to make your own Bible in this day and age. A real “Christian” religion only needs the Bible to study with people. You don’t need thousands upon thousands of Bethelites and Bethels and the Governing Body and all those compounds that they are building.
In the days of the apostles, people met in homes to study the Bible. If the Witnesses think that every person on the face of this earth has to be preached at from a Witnesses before Armageddon comes, then they sure have an awful lot of people to get to as the population of the world is growing faster than the Witness population.
If you listen to Lett’s talk, he was projecting all this kingdom hall building to go years into the future. That sure doesn’t sound like Armageddon is coming any time soon.
They want everyone to think they need the money for expansion but there are no positive figures that anybody can see where they have money and where it goes. That is what we’d all be so curious to see. I think the real reason for that latest broadcast is that they are hiding their assets and they are afraid that that letter that they sent out last year gave people the impression that they didn’t need the donations and obviously the donations dropped because of that letter and so that broadcast was to straighten out their little scheme that backfired.
I am sure that the rank and file will go without meals if they have to so that they can fill the insatiable needs of a very greedy and secretive organization known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Pennsylvania and England.
These people are no different than any other religion that is there as a money making business off of the back of people who think they need religion to get into either heaven or the paradise earth after death.
Religion breeds fear and feeds off of it. That is all it does. If they can come up with a few scriptures to throw fear into people, people will fall for it.
All it takes is for people to believe in a God and that that God is watching every move they make and if they don’t make all the right moves, God is going to zap them, either now or at Armageddon or in a hell fire.
Religion gives some comfort for people, but most of the comfort comes from their giving to the church in the idea that they are giving to God and the Watchtower is a prime example of using that fear to trick them out of their money just like all the rest of the churches do.
They all think theirs is the only true religion. The Witnesses are stupid to think that out of the thousands of religions in the world, that they just happened to fall into the only one true religion.
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Charles Costante says:
May 10, 2015 at 2:50 pm
“Exactly what evidence do you have that there have been suicides depression and family break ups due to disfellowshipping by Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
Lennylynx, my last comment seems to have disappeared, but here we go again. There are documented cases of Jehovah’s Witnesses committing suicide because of shunning by Dr. Jerry Bergman, PhD in his book called “Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Health”:
http://masonemerson.freeyellow.com/christianwitnessescom/id178.html
You may wish to look at some of these links, also:
https://www.google.com/search?q=suicides+from+shunning+jehovah%27s+witnesses&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=jehovah%27s+witnesses+suicides+from+shunning+
I can’t believe that you would question family break ups from disfellowshipping! All you need do is read this website – most of the posters here are experiencing precisely that.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:05 pm
@Lennylynx. Lenny what you are doing now is BRILLIANT!! You are Ignoring the F& D Slave & Engaging in Conversation with Apostates!! I Feel you are getting a TASTE of Freedom!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:27 pm
@Lennylynx . If the GB are SO HONEST print an Annual Accounts Report for the World to see on their Website like all other Charities!!
Lenny your Question about suicides . Well it HURTS ME to say this But my Best Friend who was an Elder & Regular Pioneer Committed SUICIDE by Hanging Himself!!
He Had Suffered Major Depression for Years & felt he LET Jehovah & Congregation down when he came off pioneering. Another Elder I know of in Devon Gassed himself in his Garage by feeding a hose pipe from the Exhaust & it was on the Local BBC News 10 years ago. Another Elder who had been married for over 30 years Hanged himself who I knew personally . I know of 2 others who killed themselves & At our branch visit 3 weeks ago in England Mark Sanderson mentioned a Regular Pioneer Sister who had pioneered for 7 years who put a note in the Contribution box saying she was contemplating SUICIDE because she had been sexually abused as a child!!
I know Hundreds in many congregations who are SEVERELY DEPRESSED,But call it Chronic Fatigue,Fibromyalgia or M.E. Many are on Anti Depressants. Please Read WATCHTOWER December 1st 2000 pages24-28 which is about a Gilead Graduate who was a Missionary for 20 years & Branch Servant of 4 African Countries & friend of Nathan Knorr(President of WT) who had a Complete Mental Breakdown & was on Anti Depressants for 25 years & needed Professional Psychiatric Help.
Lenny Please Wake Up & SMELL the ROSES!!
I Like your Loyalty & your Spirit!! YOU WILL MAKE A Really GOOD APOSTATE !!
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:44 pm
Pickled Brain
My response to comments on suicide were in answer to the issue of disfellowshipped individuals. you have now taken it to a level of mental health issues of which I am no expert and I’m pretty sure you have no expertise either. Many people in all walks of life commit suicide, even celebrities, those in the spotlight who seem to have it all, Robin Williams, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Kurt Cobain Tony Scott, . I tend to steer clear of commenting on issues I have no depth of explanation particularly the web of complexity in mental health issues.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:32 pm
Pickled Brain
I stumbled across this website whilst trying to get on JW.org. However this is my first and final venture on this site. I sincerely hope that you all reconsider and review the reasons you all despise Jehovah’s Witnesses. Obviously I do not know what it is you all believe in, but I would strongly suggest that you all not rely on false and biased reports on Jehovah’s Witnesses. Try and get to the facts. What are your beliefs based on? I wish you all well.
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:45 pm
OMG Lenny!!! False & biased reporting comes from the Society. Look up propaganda techniques on google & see how boxes that the WT ticks. Then please come back & make a response to what I have asked.
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:47 pm
I meant to say how many boxes that the Society ticks.
anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:47 pm
Lenny, where in the world do you get the idea that we who comment on this web site despise Witnesses? A lot of us commenting here are still in good standing and some still go to meetings. That is the last thing in the world you should get from this web site. I care deeply about all the Witnesses who are still associated, and that includes my own children and relatives and very close friends.
It kills me to see them being taken advantage of and being lied to and just like you, are believing the lies from the Society that us “apostates” hate Witnesses. That could not be further from the truth.
Up until a year ago, I was you. I believed all the lies about apostates too until I tried to prove them wrong and found out that it was I that was wrong. If you can find anything false about anything anybody has said here, tell us and Lloyd. He has always said if anybody can prove him wrong and that God really is directing the Society that he will close down this web site. I for one would love for you to prove me wrong so that at the end of the day, I can find out that I didn’t waste my one and only life on a false demonic religion after all. Please prove to us that God is actually directing the organization. That is all we want to see and we will be happy.
If you can’t do that, then the best thing for you to do is to not look at anything that smacks of “apostate” so that you can stay in your happy place. Once you try and prove “apostates” wrong, you might find out that it was the Society that was misleading you and you might be coming back here and commenting that you were glad that you just happened on this web site quite by accident.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Anonymous, do you by chance attend the Rosenburg assembly hall? Its really none of my business, so I beg your pardon if this question is inappropriate. If so, we might know each other. Contact me on FB if you want to reply.
lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:21 pm
Charles Costante
Do you really expect me to take seriously the findings of someone who was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness but could not live up to its teachings.As I’m sure you are well aware judging by the comments on this blog ,former Witnesses have a tendency to be biased in their views and at times harbor ill will and resentment
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:42 pm
@Lennylynx. I Love it when Someone defends the GB . I do think it does Make the Debate here more Enjoyable. Lenny you are A GOOD HEARTED Person who I feel is Naive & you may feel I am wrong saying this But when Armageddon doesn’t come in 20 years I hope this website is still here & You have Woken up & I think you will . If you were REALLY CONVINCED the GB had the Truth you WOULD NOT be DISOBEYING the GB by coming onto this Site . Take Care I feel there is hope for you my fellow Apostate in Arms.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:48 pm
Pickled Brain Can I ask why you are putting a date of twenty years?
Sincere Witnesses do not serve Jehovah with a date in view.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:12 pm
@Lennylynx. This gets better & Better !! You are Getting Drawn in to this conversation. 5,10,20,30 years it doesn’t matter to me But it does to the F&D Slave as ALL of Their DATES HAVE FAILED.., 1874, 1878,1910,1914,1915,1918,1925,1975,within the 20th Century etc,etc
When Jesus inspected all religions in 1919 the Latest Book (Finished Mystery) had just been published.It is important to read it as Jesus chose JW Religion over all others because of food they were giving at The Proper Time!! But Until 1927 the Bible Students believed the Pyramid of Giza forecast many of these dates. NONE of THESE DATES came True so if Jehovah was giving The GB Holy Spirit to Give Food at the Proper Time ?? Why would Jehovah LIE to the GB about these DATES?? Or is it JUST A BIG FRAUD & SCAM by the GB!!
Look at Rutherfords 10 Room Mansion Beth SARIM mentioned in Proclaimers Book & The Pyramid of Giza & all those False Dates are in the Proclaimers Book !! Read it cover to cover & all footnotes. Lenny please Don’t Waste Your Life Slaving for 7 American Men !! Read the Bible by all means ; Live a moral life; Help Others; provide for your Family & you will be truly happy!!
I wish you well for your future.
Finn Sawyer says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:55 pm
Lennylynx, the only person that can prove what is true to you is yourself. “Make the truth your own” is perhaps the best advice anyone can give. You must be willing to do research outside what the Watchtower publishes and it doesn’t all need to be “apostate.” Think about a particular question you may have. Go to the library, read peer-reviewed scientific papers and original historical documents and most importantly, take the time to compare the past and current writings of Watchtower from its own literature. For example, to your point about the scriptural nature of disfellowshipping, not even the FD&S thought it was scriptural until 1952 or so. Did Jehovah change his mind? In any case the grounds for scriptural disfellowshipping is defined however the FD&S sees fit and if you doubt that then just dare to disagree with them and start asking a lot of questions.
You are right about many “apostate” sites being less than credible, in my opinion. One I do recommend though is JWFacts.org
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:19 pm
Finn Sawyer
I havent always been a Witness. Ive looked at Evolution etc.I have made an informed decision.
There are many “enlightened” changes made by the organisation throughout the past century.
In 1976 it was not permissible for Witnesses to smoke. Prior to that it was allowed. Was that enlightenment
When it was a practice recommended by doctors not long before that.
How about the blood issue? In view of the facts surrounding its dangers and the way the medical profession are now taking seriously HLC advice on blood issue, Is this Enlightenment, its based on scripture.
How about the world’s morals on sexual matters, Would you say now its out of control. is it enlightenment.
However much you keep criticizing the organisations refining of scriptural truth it does not alter the fact that Jehovah has set a day in which he will bring an end to man’s rule and HE has said in the Bible that day will not be changed or delayed
You must be willing to do research outside what the Watchtower publishes and it doesn’t all need to be “apostate.” Think about a particular question you may have. Go to the library, read peer-reviewed scientific papers and original historical documents and most importantly, take the time to compare the past and current writings of Watchtower from its own literature. For example, to your point about the scriptural nature of disfellowshipping, not even the FD&S thought it was scriptural until 1952 or so. Did Jehovah change his mind? In any case the grounds for scriptural disfellowshipping is defined however the FD&S sees fit and if you doubt that then just dare to disagree with them and start asking a lot of questions.
You are right about many “apostate” sites being less than credible, in my opinion. One I do recommend though is JWFacts.org
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:42 pm
@Lennylynx, how can you justify selling off thousands of KH’s in the US that have been paid for to put luxury KH’s in the US & the UK? Buying luxury apartments to house those working for the Society with tennis courts & spa’s etc when you have African Bros starving when they have walked for miles to a convention & no food even offered to them but a patronising, ‘we won’t eat in front of them’ sentiment from the visiting delegates. I was astonished at the lack of charity at that African assembly. If they never did it any other time at least they could have done it there, just once.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 3:56 pm
When Brother Lett mentioned the building of thousands of kingdom halls , he meant worldwide.
From my congregation here in Wales a single brother and a married couple have have used all their financial means to to engage in Kingdom Hall construction work in numerous African countries. All Kingdom Halls have “Worldwide Work” contribution boxes located normally out of the way at the back of halls. In my kingdom hall the contribution boxes at at the rear and at the opposite side to the entrance and exit doors.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Grace
The Preaching work is the is the urgent focus. Highly skilled volunteers ( Architects, iT personnel, Engineers, Building Personnel from “developed countries”(US Uk etc) as well as local skilled brothers and sisters are being deployed in countries throughout the whole earth to cater for all brothers and sisters. I myself hoping to volunteer my time and expense to assist in the new Britain branch relocation building work now that planning is approved. why not look into JW.org yourself and see the expansion taking place. The videos there are not fictional they are real events.
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm
@Lenny, you sidestepped my question. KH’s don’t put food in starving peoples belly.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:27 pm
Yes Grace I know
Jehovah makes sure His people are provided with the necessities but not always the wants of life.
in fact he guarantees the necessities of life.Whether by helping to use our initiative and skills to provide a living or by the kind, voluntary assistance of brothers and sisters. We are encouraged to use the avenue of prayer also to help us in any given situation. Prayer has never failed me.
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Thank you Lenny for replying in nice manner to me. I know that if Witnesses let themselves they can have debate.
My best friend (supposedly) for 20yrs recently dumped me because I was mentioning things that bothered me about the Society’s handling of matters, especially the child abuse policies that they refuse to change. This meant a lot to me because we had something happen to our child (age 4) which I won’t go into. My friend decided that our friendship was to end there because I was sounding like an Apostate. This hurt me deeply but it made me wake up & see how fickle friendships are with Witnesses.
I hope that you looked at the the list of propaganda techniques that I asked you to do. I’d be interested to see your perspective on that.
Excelsior! says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:32 am
lenny lynx,
Your fellow JWs are contemplating stopping buying fresh food, in order to put more money in the contribution box! They are already squeezed dry!
Meanwhile, they are buying a five bedroom five bathroom “mansion” in your neck of the woods!!!! Did you know that? It’s true.
the IBSA, the charitable branch of the WTBTS in Britain, purchased a £900,000 mansion along the coast in Wales, in an area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. A few months later, they beg for more money!
Tell me please, what theocratic purpose does this house satisfy?
Please do your research and join us in helping people escape from the cult which is the WTBTS.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:14 pm
@lennylynx, all contribution boxes in Kingdom Halls are at the back of the hall and you are right in that nobody is overtly “charged” to attend meetings. That money should go to building Kingdom halls in poor countries but Lett said that no matter how poor you are, you should still contribute the building of your kingdom hall. But the thing is, those halls don’t belong to those people in the end, even though when people put their money in the contribution box for the world wide work that is what they are led to believe.
Those buildings belong to the Society instead. It is only making a comfortable place for them to meet but they could just as well rent a place to meet themselves like what we used to do when I first became a Witness in the 60’s. They are not allowed to just put their money together and buy a place anymore. The difference is that any kingdom hall that is being built today is going to belong to the Society. The brothers are expected to pay for it initially but in the end, it belongs to the Society in their real estate portfolio. Even when they get it “paid off”, they are expected to keep paying the same amount forever. That is just a different name for a tithe.
That is all it is. It’s a scheme to acquire free real estate in the guise of religion.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:34 pm
@Lennylynx . I Bet your ENJOYING this OPEN DISCUSSION Better than Any Watchtower Study where any Opposition Talk & you would be spoken to by the Elders!!
You mentioned the GB use Brothers who are Architects, Engineers etc. AMAZING all these Jobs need 5 year UNIVERSITY DEGREES!!
Hmmmm???
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:44 pm
Pickled Brain
The result of the organisation focusing on the Preaching Work is that hundreds of thousands are getting baptized every year. This includes people from all backgrounds. If they happen to be skilled professionals in their former life, who am I to question that. Remember the Disciple Luke was a Physician ( Doctor)
Matthew was a Tax Collector
Apostle Paul was a trained Lawyer etc etc …..its now a case of yawn yawn I’m afraid
lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:38 pm
At the end of the day whether you choose to believe it or not as the scripture says they are his master’s belongings. Is there any one person on earth that you believe is ultimately going to inherit the organisation’s property and money.? some kind of typical charismatic TV evangelical cult figure that will eventually pounce on the the organisations belongings. i repeat no one is making a profit out of the organisation or living a life of luxury. All money is put into Kingdom Preaching. No Palaces (Pope, Archbishops, Monarchy),
No mansions, swimming pools , Limos ( TV evangelists scamming the flock)
No purchasing of shares in Bank stock, armament companies, unscrupulous companies, in fact no trading whatsoever, every penny is put into the Kingdom Preaching work
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anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm
@lennylynx, do you have any proof that all the money is going towards the preaching work or are you just taking Lett’s word for it? We would all like to believe that what they are saying is true but there’s never any accounts reports and after all, in the end, even though you would like to say that all that money belongs to Jehovah, in the end, it was the hard work of the rank and file who earned that money and they should be able to know that they aren’t being taken advantage of when it comes to where that money is going. They earned it and they deserve to know where it’s going and it should go towards a new Kingdom Hall but the money goes to the Society instead. You might claim that that money is Jehovah’s but that doesn’t mean that Jehovah and the Society are the same thing which is what you implied. I would call that a clever scheme to get free real estate from trusting and gullible people. Have you got any real evidence that what I have said here, isn’t true? I would like to know that it isn’t true but I fear that it is true and so please prove me wrong. That is what that 4 page letter was all about. Even though it made it look like the loans were paid off, they were to keep paying the same amount forever and forever so that “loan” would never be paid off and in the end the Hall would belong to the Society. That is deceitful.
If a Kingdom hall is sold and that congregation wants to rebuild another Kingdom Hall, they should be able to use that money from the sale to build another Kingdom Hall, don’t you think? But that’s not the way it works. The money from that sale of that Kingdom Hall or Assembly Hall goes to the Society and that very same congregation has to come up with the money all over again for that new Kingdom Hall every month in the form of a “donation” and even that new Kingdom Hall will belong to the Society even though those brothers and sisters build it and pay for it with their own money and donate their labor for it.
One thing that I really loved about not going to meetings anymore is the $80 that I can now put towards my bills and I don’t feel even one ounce of guilt over it. The thing that saddens me though is that now my husband puts money into the contribution box and won’t even tell me how much he puts in but at least I am not afraid anymore of those seven self-appointed “Popes”.
You might not call them Popes, but they are. They live in their own little world of “popedom” in their own little money grubbing minds and the rank and file worship at their feet. Not me. I won’t worship at their feet even one more minute. You can worship them and support them and their money making schemes if you like and if that is what makes you happy, go for it. You will probably be one of the 30% of the congregation who aren’t suffering from some kind of depression and stress and hopefully you aren’t stupid enough to give up meals for the “worldwide” work.
Ted says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:29 pm
lennylynx, I agree entirely with you about the generosity
of the bros, and sisters. This is why Rutherforde was able
to build a ten room mansion in sunny California with two
16 cylinder Cadillacs ( chauffeur driven ).
There he spent the winters while the generous hearted bros,
in snowbound N,Y, kept the operation working and the cabbage
Coming in.
He concocted the tale that the place was for Abraham and Moses
and other ancients. The judge claimed to be a “Bluffer” and that
was one of his best. Anyway the place is sold now, so if these
ancients do turn up their digs won’t be so ostentatious.
People commenting here have spent an accumulation of thousands
of years in this org, and are wise to their propaganda. It’s great to
have you join us and to see the org, hasn’t been able to censor your
right to freedom of information. Best wishes keep commenting.
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danman says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:34 pm
“Do you really expect me to take seriously the findings of someone who was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness but could not live up to its teachings.As I’m sure you are well aware judging by the comments on this blog ,former Witnesses have a tendency to be biased in their views and at times harbor ill will and resentment”
Jw’s fall back on this strawman argument almost every time they are faced with the hard facts or should we say TTATT. Absurd reasoning to say the least.
If jw’s truly believe that any ‘former’ member is automatically labeled as ‘unfit’ or ‘could not live up to’ the ‘organizations’ policies they should be willing to extend that assumption upon any former member of ANY organized effort, not just to offer protection to their chosen cause the WTBTS Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
In every other field of endeavor ‘former members’, participants, are eagerly sought after as experts in their fields. Why? Because they actually lived the life, they have first hand experience. They are not simply outsiders making guesses or assumptions about their former lives, they are relating actual experiences.
Just try watching any sporting event like Nascar, Tennis, Football, Baseball, you name it, in the forefront are those who played or participated in the game, usually for many years. Why? Because they know what they are talking about.
Why jw feel like they win some sort of word game by trying implicate that the former member was not good enough at the former game, and somehow infer that one can completely dismiss the comments or views of that former member is an argument that does not stand up to everyday practice in the real world. It is a last ditch effort to cast a pall or wet blanket over the former members views without the slightest effort by the jw to prove what the ex member has said is untrue. Just make the wild accusation that he or she could not meet the level of performance and all the years of sacrifice, experience mean zero.
It is the last ditch effort to besmirch the former member and not really address the ‘facts’. It is a classic get out of jail card, that jw’s pull almost every time they are faced with the really hard questions.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:39 pm
@Lennylynx. Come on Lenny I think YOU ARE Quite Enjoying this Debate were Having. Come & Join us !!
You’ll have More FUN with us Apostates!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:44 pm
@Lennylynx. Jehovah has guided me with Holy Spirit(well if the GB can claim spirit Direction)… to say that you are now DISFELLOWSHIPPED for talking too long with Apostates & I now Baptise you , Lenny as a fully Fledged APOSTATE!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:57 pm
@David . I missed your comment earlier . You show a LOT of Insight into the Organisation & Common Sense . enjoyed your observations!
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:01 pm
Your views remind me of Benjamin McLane Spock a renowned Child expert or something along those lines. He was the first pediatrician to study psychoanalysis to try to understand children’s needs and family dynamics. why don’t you read up on him.
Apparently he is now criticized for ruining an entire generation. As a journalist called lev Grossman wrote in Time magazine ” There’s nothing like the passage of time to make the World’s smartest people look like complete idiots”
“Do Not put your trust in nobles or the son of earthling man” ( wrote the psalmist)
I trust Jehovah and the organisation he is using .
There is no other organisation that Jehovah is using. Not even you can come up with an organisation that Jehovah is using today.
Which other organisation bears his name, uses his name and truly preaches his word.
If you want to trust professor bergman or whatever his name is its up to you. I’m afraid it’s a case of yawn yawn………….
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:16 pm
@Lennylynx Well Lenny the GB are better than Mr Spock the GB have RUINED,what 3,4,5 or 6 Generations & I glad you define a Generation as about 30 or 40 years like Jesus did when he prophesied the Last Days of Jewish system in 33 C.E & ended in70 C.E about 37 years Later …. A TRUE MEANING of What GENERATION is !! I always prefer the words of Jesus than the Ever CHANGING Interpetation of Scripture of 7 Yankee Men in Brooklyn !! Lenny I BET YOU LOVE THIS OPEN & FREE Discussion where there is no fear of Repercussions from the Elders if you Disagree with the GB. We Can Disagree & we will NOT SHUN YOU !! True Freedom like Jesus spoke Freely to Judas & the Pharisees & didn’t stop his Disciples either talking toJudas & the Pharisees, DONT you LOVE that Freedom to Dispute Freely !! Refreshing & we can all remain friends!!
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shannon says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:34 pm
Soooooo True!!! Lenny what is YOUR definition of a generation?
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anonymous says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:23 pm
@lennylynx, You should do some research too in the 1980 Watchtower Feb. 1, page 11 where it admitted that the name Jehovah was invented by a Catholic monk in the 1200’s A.D. It never was in the Bible so Witnesses are lying when they repeat the story that Witnesses have restored God’s name of Jehovah in the Bible.
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David says:
May 10, 2015 at 4:53 pm
@ lennylynx“ Exactly what evidence do you have that there have been suicides depression and family break ups due to disfellowshipping by Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
Just picture yourself being avoided by your own family for the rest of your life? Do you think you could be at risk of having depression? Do you think it is a remote possibility?
Think of a child being baptised at 5 or 6 and decide to leave the Watchtower at 10 for not agreeing on the overlapping generation (crazy) teaching or that Christians should not speculate on God’s word (like the JW excellent in doing it). That child at 10 will have to live every day with the sharp pain of not sharing her best moments with his/her brother, with JW cousins. She will not be invited at weddings. She will be treated as a criminal, as dead. Do you think in this circumstances you can fall on depression?
It is strange how people that will be eaten by birds (according to the lunatic JW teachings) respects JW family members, and they which should reflect Jesus love can ruin a human beings existence.
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lennylynx says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:09 pm
David
Your comments are confusing me or is it that I need to get some sleep. Is the hypothetical child of 10 disfellowshipped , has he left of his own accord, or what has he been disfellowshipped for.
If he has left of his own accord at age 10, then it is unlikely that the parents will disown him. Legally speaking it’s against the law. We do tend to obey laws you know. And on that rather silly response I must bid you all good night as the discussions are bordering on the ridiculous now
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Grace says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:16 pm
Lenny, please don’t go away. David did pose a legitimate situation. I had a friend who’s daughter was baptised at 12, when she was 16 she was date raped then got disfellowshipped for it to serve as an example. She attempted suicide at 17 & was put into the local Mental Ward for a month. She is still disfellowshipped & has very low self worth but no one in the ‘truth’ is allowed to help her because of her situation. How can that be healthy spiritually, physically or mentally for anyone?
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David says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:25 pm
@lennylynx if you are confused please revise JW policies. If you simply want to leave the JW because you no longer agree with JW teachings you’ll be shunned for life.
A person at 18, at 30 or 40 should have the basic right to change believes of view point because of maturity. You are a JW now because of this basic right. But this is impossible for JW. Once I left the organisation no JW as ever contacted me. I am the same person, with good standards, with the same faith and love for God.
The GB has put an invisible gun on my head either I submit to the governing body or I cannot see my loved family members and friends. I have done completely nothing wrong, just decided to leave to live according to my values and conscience. I hope this is clear and you are not still confused. There many experiences of many who have returned JW just because they cannot leave without seeing love ones. I know personally a sister who wanted to be reinstated to assist is dying parent. Is this Cristian?
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David says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:09 pm
@@ lennylynx“
“Do you really expect me to take seriously the findings of someone who was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness but could not live up to its teachings.As I’m sure you are well aware judging by the comments on this blog ,former Witnesses have a tendency to be biased in their views and at times harbor ill will and resentment”
I am currently living following Christians standards, and my love for God and his Son is the same if not bigger.
Because of the love of the Truth you cannot continue supporting the JW religion. The GB polluted Christ teachings and want me to make the same mistake.
The majority of things that I learned when I become JW are now replaced. They were replaced because they were false. They were the ideas of one/two men that think they know more then God.
I understand that you are taught that those who leave must be wicked. But it is not true. I left because I love sincerity and truth.
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:26 pm
@Lennylynx . David has a point an Elder friend whose children were baptised at 12& 13 then got Disfellowshipped at 16&17 were never spoken to for the last 35 years !! Cruel or What , Child Baptism is NOWHERE in the Greek Scriptures . Timothy was 19 or 20 but was an Exception & Jesus was 30 well past the Bloom of youth!! Let’s follow Jesus Example not 7 Lousy American Con Men who MESS up People’s Minds & Lives & Families!!
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BABY says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:14 am
In the first century, some Jewish Christians still wanted to follow the Law. (Acts 21:17-20) But Paul corrected them and helped them see that it was Jesus’ sacrifice, not animal sacrifices, that made forgiveness of sins possible. (Hebrews 10:5-10) Many of these Jewish Christians accepted Paul’s counsel and changed their thinking. We can learn an important lesson from their example. We need adjustments just as the first century christians, we need to accept them humbly. It will always be like this until we rieach perfection. Proverbes 4:18
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Pickled brain says:
May 10, 2015 at 5:54 pm
SO MANY COMMENTS on this Subject! I knew when Stephen Lett BEGGED for Money that it would touch a RAW NERVE with many financially struggling brothers & Sisters. Especially when the GB don’t follow Apostle Paul’s Example of working as a TENTMAKER so as not to be a Burden on the Brothers & Paul Had it Tough!! FLOGGED,STONED,Shipwrecked, in danger from Wild Beasts & Highwaymen!! The GB members travel on Air Conditioned Planes,Cars,Trains & then live in Air Conditioned Hotel Rooms& have Cleaners,Cooks,Laundrymen,Waiters,Car Mechanics& Chauffeurs ,Dentist,Doctors etc to look after them PAID BY DONATIONS BY US who have to pay our TAXES!! Hard Working Brothers&Sisters ARE ANNOYED!!!
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Charles Costante says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:56 pm
“Do you really expect me to take seriously the findings of someone who was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness …..”
Lenny, the cases are documented in his book and could easily be discredited if they weren’t factual. The fact that he was a Jehovah’s Witness is precisely the reason he was interested enough to find out whether their religious background had anything to do with their suicide. He was also able to ascertain that it was because they were shunned.
“…..but could not live up to its teachings.”
How do you know he couldn’t live up to their teachings? Maybe he chose to leave the organization because he started researching it and discovered that there were many lies, coverups and misquotes in their publications and finally came to the realization that maybe it wasn’t ‘The Truth’.
“As I’m sure you are well aware judging by the comments on this blog ,former Witnesses have a tendency to be biased in their views ……..”
That comment says nothing to me. I could say that you are biased in your views.
“…… and at times harbor ill will and resentment”.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have no ill will or resentment towards any Jehovah’s Witness. I still consider many of them my dear friends in spite of the situation (I excommunicated myself from the organization, not the people). I am so glad that I found the courage to get out 35 years ago and to start thinking for myself instead of allowing others to tell me how to live my life. If anything, I feel sympathy for those who are still trapped in the Watchtower and that hopefully they don’t suffer too much mental and emotional trauma when it comes tumbling down. I feel it’s only a matter of time.
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BABY says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:16 am
In the first century, some Jewish Christians still wanted to follow the Law. (Acts 21:17-20) But Paul corrected them and helped them see that it was Jesus’ sacrifice, not animal sacrifices, that made forgiveness of sins possible. (Hebrews 10:5-10) Many of these Jewish Christians accepted Paul’s counsel and changed their thinking. We can learn an important lesson from their example. We need adjustments just as the first century christians, we need to accept them humbly. It will always be like this until we rieach perfection. Proverbes 4:18
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Excelsior! says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:30 am
BABY,
What a miraculous improvement in your writing! Methinks there are 2 babies out there!
You cannot call the decision taken in Acts an adjustment. There was nothing to adjust because there were only principles, not rules!
Besides, the flip flopping of the WTBTS, led by the governing body, follows no scriptural precedent.
New Light is simply a feeble misuse of a proverb to cover the WTBTS’ ignorance and stupidity.
There is no example of “old light” being wrong in the bible, but there are numerous examples of “old light” being totally wrong in your religion!
Why don’t you be a proper Christian and help us to bring the WTBTS to justice for its child abuse policies, domestic abuse policies and many other abuses? That is your Christian duty, not attempting to defend the indefensible!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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kat says:
May 11, 2015 at 3:35 am
The GB are proven liars, that in itself is enough for anyone to run.
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Gareth says:
May 11, 2015 at 4:49 am
Indeed! Heed Psalm 26:4 :-)
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 6:33 am
@Lennylynx. Looking back at your comments last night you end a few with ‘YAWN YAWN ‘ which is totally Disrespectful to those who are genuinely trying to answer your Questions.
This IS The TYPICAL Reply from those JWs who are LOSING the Argument!!
You asked me for proof about those COMMITTING SUICIDE!! I GAVE YOU 5 Examples of Elders & Pioneers who either HANGED Themselves or Gassed Themselves. You Came Back with A VERY VERY UNKIND REPLY & a Strawman Argument that you weren’t an Expert & that you were only talking about those that were DISFELLOWSHIPPED, But I think It is WORSE & more HORRIBLE that these Committed Suicide while Still Faithful JWs at the time !! But No Sympathy from you How Distressing it must have been for those Affected!!
Looking back at your Comments I at First Felt Sympathy for you ,But the more you commented your TRUE CHARACTER came out Which is very SAD because Everyone on this Site was Trying to Help you not WASTE YOUR LIFE!!
AS THE YEARS ROLL BY you will see like those of us who REALLY WANTED to BELIEVE it Was the TRUTH have Learnt the HARD WAY with the Passage of Time.
You said those who are Accepted on Construction at Bethel as Architect, Civil Engineers,etc were such before they became witnesses BUT that doesn’t Negate the Argument that they Made Use of the Excellent University Education for 5 years !! Jehovah allowed Moses to learn all the Wisdom of the Egyptians & Mix with all the Worldly People likewise Daniel,Shadrach,Meshach& Abednego were mixing in Politics with all the Babylonian Hierarchy. If you are strong Spiritually you will maintain your Loyalty to God never mind where you are Educated.The Trades such as Building , Carpenters, Electrician,Plumbers can be more FOUL MOUTHED & VIOLENT and Bad Association than anyone I met at University!! I know what Environment I would prefer my Children to be Taught in !!
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BABY says:
May 11, 2015 at 6:56 am
The GB is guided by God’s Holly Spirit, those who haved noted this, they saw that truth, by their relentless preaching work such as jesus and his disciples did.
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:25 am
@Baby. WHY Does the Holy Spirit Give the Spirit Directed GB WRONG INTERPRETATION of Scripture TIME & TIME Again.. 1874,1878,1910,1914,1915,1918,1925,1942,1975& in our 20th Century etc,etc !!
Is JEHOVAH HAVING a LAUGH with the GB & does he Find it Funny to Let The Millions of JW Have Wrong Information Time & Time again. Sheep& Goats, Who F& D Slave are… Up until 1927 Russell was the F&D slave(Page 143 Proclaimers Book) 1927 until 2013 the F& D Slave were the 144,000; Now it is JUST 7 Corrupt Men of GB ; What a GENERATION is ? Why were the Great Crowd Told they were going to Heaven in all the Old Books by Russell& Rutherford until 1935,why did many die because of Refusing Organ Transplants from 1967 until 1980 & Blood Fractions banned until 2000 such as Heoglobin!!… BABY in NAME & BABY in BRAINS!! Sorry about being BLUNT But I Have LOST Too MANY Friends to SUICIDE in this Organisation & ITS ABOUT TIME People woke up to the DAMAGING MIND CONTROL of these 7 American Men Mainly WHITE with the Token Black thrown in who is good at Jokes But the SHOW is being Run by :Stephen Letts, Anthony Morris,Geoffrey Jackson& David Splane
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David says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:45 am
Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”
According to Jesus making converts is not enough to be approved.
Jesus made people free. Organised religion is against freedom. They create their own rules and judge you according to those rules.
That’s way people should do proper research before losing freedom for men made teachings. Making this single mistake can break you beloved family apart.
Organisations that use families as weapons are not normal.
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 9:32 am
@David . I Agree Totally with your comment!
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Excelsior! says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:42 am
BABY,
What proof do you have, or what proof convinced you, that the governing body are guided by Holy Spirit?
I do not perceive the fruit of the spirit in the WTBTS. The fruitage is listed in Galatians 5.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Simon Kestral says:
May 11, 2015 at 11:54 am
Pickled can’t post with his wife in the same room. He knows the WT is built on lies but still comments at meetings. How sad when people are trapped in the WT by family ties.
Lenny and Baby think God approves the WT. Why argue with them, it’s a waste of time. If the WT’s 2013 flip flop on the identity of the faithful and discreet slave does not open their eyes, it’s a lost cause.
The GB are NOT the faithful and discreet slave. Their claim to that title is a big lie. Even before 2013, the WT never was the faithful and discreet slave. IT’S ALWAYS BEEN A BIG LIE. You can’t build a house of truth on a foundation of lies.
The WT is not “the truth” as JWs like to call it. The WT is a false christ, an idol JWs worship, in place of God.
As the Bible says, they sacrifice in vain …
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Innocent Son says:
May 11, 2015 at 12:21 pm
@ Lennylynx: Welcome to the site.I would have posted similar comments to yours a few years ago, but I would have been constantly looking over my shoulder debating with so called apostates…! As you must be, fear not you are amongst friends, try to keep an open mind and posting comments. Shalom.
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Innocent Son says:
May 11, 2015 at 12:25 pm
Being a JW for so many years, I’d never have thought that I would be posting on here, however, I had too many doubts and started to have a long hard look at the Org. I suggest you do the same Lennylynx. Peace
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Innocent Son says:
May 11, 2015 at 12:59 pm
I saw what the so called ‘truth’ did to my family.My brother became an Elder in the late 70’s. It cost him his health, house and family eventually suffering a mental breakdown.Where was the Org. When this was happening? NOWHERE! He finally got out 5 years ago, but it had taken it’s toll on him, he was a broken man, so think on Lennylynx! Take care…
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Ted says:
May 11, 2015 at 4:44 pm
@Pickled Brain. Hi P,B, enjoyed your exchanges with Lenny.
It was apparent that you had his interests in mind but it went
right over his head, he was aggressive right from the start.
( hardly the way to win others to your point of view, )
He had the nerve to criticise Charles Constante, saying he
“could not live up to the orgs, teachings, when he himself
was acting in direct opposition to the orgs, command by
spending 5 hours fraternising with “Apostates”.
Also he claimed ( in effect ) the org wouldn’t touch unethical *
investments, Obviously he can’t have heard of the millions
they made from Phillip Morris, the tobacco company
through a trust willed to them by a lady called Henrietta Riley,
( unethical only by wt, dogma * )
Tough getting through to them, they don’t trust any facts,
any sources of info, only the WT. Well and truly programmed !
very sad, very wicked. But you never know !
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variable says:
May 11, 2015 at 5:58 pm
So many sad stories. The only way to end this cult’s (and all organized religions’) manipulation and swindling of people is to abolish (by legal means or by force) all religious organizations. Now I can already predict the reply to my “shocking” comment by some spineless milquetoast who put down their XBox for a second, because hurting someone’s feelings or offending someone’s “sensibilities” and possibly stirring up controversy is just so much more than he or she can stomach. This comment is not directed to them. It is directed to all the adults in the world who realize that life is not a video game, and that it takes a lot more than fancy talk to get things done in this world. I hope you are all receiving this message loud and clear. You can play nice all you like, but nothing gets better until organized religion goes away. I know the Utopians of this world just love to reward bullies, but that is not how I was raised, and it goes contrary to all my personal experience. It is akin to negotiating with terrorists. The more you give them, the more they demand, until they literally suck you dry. Time to wake up folks.
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Excelsior! says:
May 13, 2015 at 5:26 am
Variable,
As someone who has never owned an X Box (other games consoles are available) and is against forcing people to give up their religious beliefs at the point of a gun, I am going to try to put forward my opinion.
First of all, describing people who disagree with you as timid, uassertive and spineless is no way to win people over to your argument!
Now, you want to ban religions, either by political means or by force. Ok, what do you think would happen?
You decry the rewarding of bullies, while being one yourself! Forcing people to give up being an official member of a religion would be possible, but how many Thought Police would you hire to try to tackle the beliefs themselves?
The Communists tried destroying religion, it didn’t go too well, did it? We’re they able to destroy religious beliefs? No, they weren’t!
If we follow your argument, then the modern, scientific world we live in should never have happened! Why? Because religions were in position for the whole time our culture evolved and science benefited society!
I am for the taxing of religious bodies, and holding them to the same laws as secular societies and people. These goals can be achieved through political reform, and require no violence whatsoever.
I am for educating people of the absurdity of religions, through a good, secular education. This can be achieved with no violence whatsoever.
You can consider me spineless if you want to. It does not bother me in the slightest.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Queen Elsa says:
May 11, 2015 at 6:21 pm
I’ve been following the thread, and lenny whatever isn’t going to get it. He’s either new in or like my spouse doesn’t see anything negative with the organization. He’s using circular reasoning, piffle. I was in special full-time service myself and I know for a fact how many people in the organization have severe problems, financially, mentally and emotionally. I wouldn’t bother addressing him. He’s probably counting time and return visits… :/
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 6:47 pm
@ Ted& Queen Elsa . Thank you both For your Kind Comments following my thread with Lenny.
Like you said Ted at the end of your comment ‘ You Never Know’ . I find those who are the most Ardent & Loyal JW who Stay around for hours Defending their CAUSE?? might just go away & over the Days,Months & Maybe years to come when Armageddon doesn’t come & they become EMOTIONALLY & PHYSICALLY DRAINED after giving everything to the ever changing WHIMS of these 7 Very FALLIBLE MEN then Common Sense will Dawn & the Light? Will Get Really Brighter!!
Take Care All who comment on this site who have GIVEN SO MUCH to this ORGANISATION in the PAST & MANY HAVE BEEN HURT BADLY!!But WE WILL SAVE SOME like We HAVE WOKEN UP !!
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 6:58 pm
@ Innocent Son . I Empathise with you about your poor Families Suffering & your poor brothers Mental Breakdown. This is The Sad Consequences like I have seen the same results of following 7 Very Fallible Men who KEEP CHANGING Interpretation of Scripture.
IT IS GOOD to SEE The CARING, KIND & HUMOROUS Comments from US, So Called BITTER?? apostates?? I Find the REALLY UNKIND BITTER COMMENTS come From those JWs who DIG their HEELS in & Get so Ardently Defensive that they Don’t Practice the BIBLE Command to ‘LOVE your ENEMIES ??’
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Innocent Son says:
May 12, 2015 at 2:04 am
@ Picked brain.Thank you for your kind comments and words, I think it is us who have the ‘ Truth ‘ I also agree with what you said Charles Constante, I hope Lennylynx will think on as to if we really are… ‘ Mentally Diseased ‘
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:16 pm
@ Simon Kestrel . Enjoyed your comment about me being Trapped in the same room as my Wife but couldn’t post on this site until she left otherwise she might report me to the Elders & in my earlier comment I said SINISTER ??? Your right ! Family Ties are Strong BUT as I have said on a post months ago I was baptised in 1979 at the age of 22 Before that I Had a Very good Education & was a Great Fan of John Le Carre Books about Double Gents & Spies , SO Governing Body . You TOOK the BEST YEARs of MY LIFE , But NOW I AM OPERATING on the Inside of The Organisation & Will SAVE as Many as I can by SOWING SEEDS of DOUBT into as many Brothers&Sisters by Being Kind but Dropping Subtle Comments with quotes from the Societies own Literature!! I ADMIT it is a DANGEROUS GAME I am Playing but I have seen signs from a few it is working!! It MAKES Me SMILE but I will call it ‘THEOCRATIC WARFARE ‘ in Reverse!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:20 pm
@ Simon Kestrel . In the middle of my last comment it should have said ‘Double Agents& Spies’ Not DOUBLE GENTS’ .!! But hang on I think ‘Double Gents’ sounds more Amusing??
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Sir R says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:16 pm
The JW broadcasts always creep me out. Haven’t been able to watch them from the beginning.
I found out all of the stuff about WT a few weeks ago (the UN scandal, lying, manipulation) and was handling it rather well. It’s really hit me today what it all means, makes me angry and sick at the same time. I feel really lost.
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:28 pm
@ Sir R. WE Have ALL FELT like you ‘Angry& Lost’ . It takes time & Sometimes a LONG TIME to HEAL!
BUT USE YOUR Time now with the SAME ENERGY & ZEAL to SAVE OTHERS!!! It is so Easy to Sink into Depression after FEELING DUPED by these ‘7 AMERICAN CONMEN’ ! Most WACKY RELIGIONS come out of America…Scientology,Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses( Even now it HURTS ME to Print & Say that) , Seven Day Adventist,Etc, Etc
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Sir R says:
May 11, 2015 at 7:42 pm
I’ve had severe depression for around 8 years now. The doubts ive had over the past years were shown to be right once I had the guts to actually research online a month ago, and I actually felt a lot better than before. But today I kind of realised that what I do with my life and the morals I have are all up to me now, it’s my choice what to do. It’s pretty terrifying.
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Pickled brain says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:07 pm
@Sir R. It can be TERRIFYING as you say , BUT you are FREE from the CONSTANT CONFUSION of Ever Changing Doctrine which IF IT CAN Change 2,3,4,5 times ,Whose to say it can’t change 7,8,9 times because of the MISAPPLICATION on Prov4 v18.
You say you have had Depression for 8 years which the majority of JWs have because DEEP DOWN Most have Little Lingering Doubts like ‘ CAN A GENERATION?? REALLY be a 101 YEARS LONG????’
The Healing Process depends on many factors like Whether you were BORN IN, or How many FAMILY Members are still in& close friends are in the ORG, etc,etc
I wish you well for the future , like most of us here who have gone through this PAINFUL Deprogramming Process!
Each Individual is Different & what works for one might not work for another& vice versa. Take care & get professional help if needed or just talking on a website like this can be therapeutic but Don’t BOTTLE it Up. We all need to feel Appreciated & Understood & Cedars(Lloyd) has produced this website which is Cathartic for many !!
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Bob says:
May 13, 2015 at 7:08 pm
No, they were delivered to our shores a few hundred years ago! Part NatHere ive American and proud of it!
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shannon says:
May 11, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Hang in there..we are here for you..I am just coming out of my “bitter” stage it has been 2.5 yrs..I have no family or friends left… but at least I also have no guilt, judgement or fear following me around!
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Bob says:
May 13, 2015 at 7:29 pm
You have a friend in me!
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John Z says:
May 11, 2015 at 9:11 pm
Hello Sir R, I awoke about a year ago but have been clinging on until my wife too woke up. I was hesitating a little bit. However after this broadcast, the bullets the witnesses want to shoot at me are bouncing off. We stopped going to meetings a few months ago and I resigned as a MS recently. They are after us now. Elders phoning, elders wives coming by to try to talk to my wife. I was sickened and disgusted when I found out the origins and what this religion was really all about. Hang in there bud. We’re all here for you and your not alone. No one understands the Jw life like a ex jw.
Peace to you.
John Z
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anonymous says:
May 12, 2015 at 5:21 am
Sir R, listen to the latest jwpodcast. It was meant for you. Lloyd just posted it yesterday and it’s wonderful as usual but better than ever!!!
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Charles Costante says:
May 11, 2015 at 10:47 pm
“He had the nerve to criticise Charles Constante, saying he “could not live up to the orgs, teachings, when he himself was acting in direct opposition to the orgs, command by spending 5 hours fraternising with “Apostates”.”
Ted, I don’t think Lenny was criticising me personally but Jerry Bergman, the doctor in one of the links I posted. Interestingly, he did say that he “stumbled across this website whilst trying to get on JW.org.”. I personally think there is no such thing as ‘accidents’, so maybe his unconscious was trying to lead him to the “The Facts” as opposed to “The Truth”.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 12, 2015 at 5:04 am
Have you all seen the latest talk by Mark Sanderson related to giving. It is delivered under the them of opening your hand to give to needy brothers and sisters, but it seems awfully coincidental that it would follow a talk about giving to the WTS. At one point he says that Jehovah commands us to open our hand and give. I was surprised they allowed this talk to happen, if even for the sake of not wanting to appear desperate.
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anonymous says:
May 12, 2015 at 7:26 am
@Finn, I listened to it. It is telling in how JW’s treat people who are suffering. He tells about 20 years ago when he was serving at the branch in Canada there was a young brother who was working in the printery and Sanderson said that the young brother was “in” sick for a very long period of time and and then a member of the branch committee took over a big bag of groceries and other good things and left it outside the brother’s door.”
What is interesting is why didn’t that brother from the branch committee even go inside to talk to the brother? Wasn’t he home? If not was he out and about? If he was out and about why wasn’t he working in the printery then? Something about that story doesn’t add up. Then he goes on to say that that bag of groceries uplifted him so much that he told all the Bethel family about it. It really fails to impress me about what was so remarkable about that story. Isn’t that what they should have done right away instead of waiting such a long time? After all, Sanderson said that he was “in” sick for a very long period of time before that brother brought over the bag of groceries. That story doesn’t make any sense to me. Then Sanderson goes on to say that 20 years ago there was a flood in the Winnipeg area and the Bethel family came up with $10,000 in a very short period of time to donate towards the relief efforts. My question is how in the world did the Bethel family come up with that much money? Do they have bank accounts? I thought they were paid like $28 a month to live on and that is to cover the bare necessities. That story leaves a lot of questions in my mind as well.
If a Witness was open-handed and being generous with their brothers and sisters at the Kingdom Hall and helping them when they see that they are in need, those very same brothers and sisters will turn their back on that very generous brother or sister as soon as they even suspect that the generous one might be slipping out of the truth and turning apostate. They will turn their back on them immediately and think that they are Satanic rather than “helping” them come back into what they think is the truth. They are only concerned about themselves making it through Armageddon and wouldn’t touch or help what they think is the “unclean” thing (the generous “apostate”) with a ten foot pole. The “love” is completely conditional on the part of almost every single Witness when it comes to saving themselves through Armageddon. One might show unconditional love for the “brotherhood” in being generous but it isn’t going to be reciprocated when the tables are turned.
In the Bible, when Paul was going around collecting donations from the congregations, it was to help the poor widows and children. It wasn’t to enrich the church buildings and Paul. Paul said at 2 Cor. 10: 9 that he was never a burden to the congregations and in 2 Cor. 10: 13, he said that there would be false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into apostles of Christ because even Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. In 2 Cor. 10: 20, he said “In fact, you put up with whoever enslaves you, whoever devours what you have, whoever grabs what you have, whoever exalts himself over you, whoever strikes you in the face.”
There is a lot of truth in those scriptures. No matter what the Society asks of the Witnesses, they put up with it and all the Society has to do is exalt themselves over the congregation and the rank and file will put up with it, even when they are being struck in the face with the real truth.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:05 am
Thanks for your reply Anonymous. I don’t know…I listened to it as well and realize they were making the point of giving freely to others, but I think in a roundabout way it was like an exclamation point on the previous broadcast encouraging listeners to give to the WTS. They couldn’t exactly say “Jehovah commands you to give” in the last broadcast, but they were able to say it in this one and I’m sure many JWs will put 2+2 together.
When I was at Bethel some years ago in Patterson, the stipend was $90 a month. Many bethelites have money coming in from relatives. I knew of a pair of brothers that drove a BMW and vacationed at their personal family island in the Turks and Caicos.
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David says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:11 am
It is also very telling that in all Paul letters never mention a governing body. On jw broadcast it became more important then Jesus. Their logic to justify the GB concept is that the apostle meet few times therefore there was a GB. But why something so important wasn’t written clearly. Was Paul unable to find the correct words? If I meet with three other persons few times does it mean that we have created a governing body? It is strange that their reasoning is sharp to criticise other religions but it is very weak to criticise their own non sense. A real Christian (and any other normal person) doesn’t need another person for approval. God’s approves. We are all the same.
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David says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:21 am
Please have a look at this video
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODOurActivities/pub-jwbrd_201505_8_VIDEO
So the great judgement day is around the corner and they are focused in creating complex 3d renderings of construction projects.
Obviously they cannot buy second hand properties to save money and give to the poor as Jesus taught people. That’s is a waste of money! No?
Jehovah requires everything to be slick and rigorously new.
Can you imagine Jesus having that kind of attitude? This is common american materialistic attitude.
According to them this is the Christian pattern. I don’t think we need any more words to understand how flawed that is.
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anonymous says:
May 12, 2015 at 10:40 am
I look at it like the saying that if a person repeats the same lie, 1,000 times, it becomes true. I see the reason the Society is concentrating on more and more new Kingdom Halls is to give the impression to “worldly” people that the Witnesses are a mainstream religion and no different than any other religion and therefore a religion that more and more people will see as “normal” like a Lutheran, Catholic or Methodist or any other “acceptable” religion to belong to. I feel they are competing with other churches for normalcy. If people see Kingdom Halls on every street corner, the Witnesses and “worldly” people will look at it as a normal and acceptable form of worship and be more inclined to listen and get interested because it won’t be such a joke anymore to people.
In the United States, almost every situation comedy for years has had skits of JW’s played because they are a joke to people here and looked at as kind of crazy but as “really, really good” people at the same time.
Generally people have the impression that JW’s live like the Amish in that they are so “pure” and clean and almost perfect in every way and so the reason most people don’t listen and join up is because they think that they aren’t “good” enough. People don’t laugh at the Amish though. The Society wants the JW religion to be as acceptable as any other religion.
My husband complains a lot that the Society drums into kids that they should be “proud” to be a JW. That has always irked him so much. I know what they are saying is that kids should not feel ashamed to be a JW but what it does is to make JW’s proud or arrogant instead. I think most kids at school actually do feel “ashamed” if they want to fit in. The other kids that aren’t ashamed think they really are better than all the rest of the kids and they will never feel ashamed of being a JW and think that they can convert their classmates and openly preach but those that want to fit in, are introverted and quiet about their religion.
Feeling proud to be a JW works for the Society. Most JW’s do think that only their religion is so hard to follow that they feel they are heads and tails above the average person in the “world”. They feel that the average person that doesn’t join up just can’t live up to the very high standards as Lennylynx has been led to believe, like they think they do and the rest of the world can’t live up to those high standards.
We were probably all there with that kind of thinking when we believed. We also thought like that, that we were just such a “classy” set of people and we thought we were better than the average person walking around in our suits and dresses on the street too. That is the way we were brain washed into thinking which is a cult tactic that works on all cults, making them think that only they can live up to such high standards. That kind of brainwashing works for them and it works for the JW’s as well. JW’s are supposed to be humble but they are so proud to be humble that they are proud. In the end, they are being played for fools and don’t even know it. It is just like the story of the Emperor that parades down the street naked.
The Society places so much emphasis on new buildings because they think that the world and current JW’s will think the JW’s are really prospering and growing, which makes them proud, thinking that it’s only a matter of time and everyone will be flocking in. I don’t think JW’s really want armageddon so much as they want to be proud of their religion and not feel like a joke to anyone anymore.
I think that when people fall out of the “truth” the ones that are left feel like the ones that left, now that they are now just “too good” to be JW anymore. I remember always feeling a little jealous of those who stopped going. I was jealous because they didn’t have to go in service anymore and to meetings and assemblies etc. but feeling like I was really sacrificing myself because even though I’d like to have stopped going to meetings and service too, I was punishing myself in staying in and hopefully I’d make it through Armageddon for doing all that stuff that I hated having to do.
I remember thinking to myself about those who stopped going “they just think they are too good for it now.” So, in a way, I was always feeling a little ashamed of my religion because JW’s are a joke to the “world” but then feeling proud too because I thought that we were just so much more “moral” than people on the outside. It was both feelings for me, feeling proud and ashamed too.
Witnesses are proud of the way they stand out from the general public in their morals and the way they dress but Witnesses can be picked out in a crowd because of the way they dress (when they have their suits and dresses on) but what that does to the general public is to give off the impression that they are like the Amish (being overly righteous). Most people don’t really look up to people dressed like that. Most people will look at those Witnesses as proud and arrogant. That is the impression that their dress and manner gives off to the public. And in reality, the way the dress and act in public is self-righteous. How the public sees them is right. They are self-righteous and arrogant. They only “act” humble”. It’s just a veneer.
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anonymous says:
May 12, 2015 at 10:51 am
I didn’t mean to imply that the Amish are overly righteous. I think the Amish are very nice and humble, unlike Witnesses.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 12, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Anonymous–did you see the most recent whiteboard video about preparing for the convention–they flashed the family in Hawaiian shirts after the convention, apparently going to eat or something, but then showed them “properly” dressed in suits, dresses and badges. No relaxing allowed!
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Simon Kestral says:
May 12, 2015 at 9:59 am
In 1975 Fred Franz used the Gilead graduation talk to argue against the idea of a governing body. He didn’t have much advice for the graduates, he was more focused on promoting his personal agenda. That talk is on youtube.
His politicized talk is more evidence that WT’s claim to the title of faithful and discreet slave was never true to begin with. It sounded good from 1927 to 2009, when WT taught that the anointed were the FDS. But when you start in 1881 and compare all the flip flops on that core teaching, it’s clearly ridiculous. A video of that is on youtube too.
Once you realize how false the WT claim to the title of “faithful and discreet slave” really is, you also realize their claim to have authority from God is without basis.
They’re just men who want to preach all the time, without any burden of secular employment.
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David says:
May 12, 2015 at 10:10 am
The pattern is always the same. They come up with an idea and then they stick a scripture to it.
They can come up with 300 teachings and the JW will follow them. Their mind is a blank canvas.
Can you imagine a few years ago standing up in a kingdom hall and saying that Jesus refers to two overlapping generations? It is plainly crazy!
Although it is crazy and makes Jesus a liar they still support it.
This is the power of brainwashing and giving up individuality thinking that another person has the key for salvation.
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ScotWm says:
May 12, 2015 at 1:25 pm
RE: Overlapping Generations: Rather than admit that its 1914 cornerstone date is wrong, or admit that the 1914 date and Matthew 24:34 are unrelated, the Governing Body came up with a new explanation of the 1914 generation: “Jesus evidently meant that the lives of the anointed ones who were on hand when the sign began to be evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of the other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.” — Watchtower 2010 June 15 p.5.
However, less than 22 years before the overlapping generations explanation was revealed, the Governing Body said this: “Might it be, though, that the sign could occur over the span of many human generations? No. The sign is to occur during one particular generation. The same generation that witnessed the beginning of the sign will also witness its climax.” — Watchtower 1988 October 15 p.4. Once again, the passage of time required that old truth be replaced with new truth. “One particular generation” had become two or more overlapping generations.
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David says:
May 12, 2015 at 3:06 pm
The Bible is clear
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
21 [a]You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
The fact that they keep changing the teachings is the proof that they are speaking presumptuously. Will they learn? No
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ScotWm says:
May 12, 2015 at 8:03 pm
The Watchtower’s cornerstone 1914 date is achieved by combining various unrelated scriptures with imaginative day-for-a-year mathematical speculation.
Because so many Watch Tower doctrines, teachings and prophesies revolve around the 1914 date, it is now carved in stone and cannot be changed. As a result, the year 1914 has become solidified in the minds of Jehovah’s Witnesses as the most important date in all human history.
The Governing Body will continue to say whatever is necessary, no matter how asinine, in an attempt to prop up their obviously-wrong 1914 doctrine.
rob says:
May 12, 2015 at 12:48 pm
I truly believe that most witnesses just go to the meetings to be with their friends (social club) and turn off their mental faculties when the meeting starts and turn them back on once the meeting is finished.
Robotic comments, robotic talks and robotic presentations from the platform. Doesn’t really matter what is said from the platform cause no one is really listening.
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anonymous says:
May 12, 2015 at 2:39 pm
Rob, I agree 100%. They go to be with their friends and they go in service to be with the others. That is the only fun thing about being a witness. At least you feel like you are part of a group, even if you don’t realize all the group “love” is conditional.
I was looking over the July 2015 study Watchtower online and it is stressing having nice Kingdom Halls and supporting them etc. and not being too casual at the Hall etc. but I think they really miss the idea of what the “church” is and that is the people. As long as the group like each other, it really doesn’t matter in what kind of surroundings they meet. If they get together for a picnic at a park, they will enjoy each others’ company just as much if they meet in a really nice building. It’s not the building that is the “house” of God. It’s the people. But the Society puts all the emphasis on the building and not the real “house” of God.
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David says:
May 12, 2015 at 2:59 pm
All the teachings of their leaders regarding the end have proven false. Therefore they are trying to save what they can. They are trying to make the religion more attractive by producing multimedia content, constructing nice kingdom halls.
But all of this cannot hide and make the pain that they have caused to many people disappear. They have judged people for not believing their interpretations. They have demolished the reputation and self esteem of many people. And today many people are prevented to see their brothers, sisters, mothers just for not agreeing with them.
But I believe many JW are starting to see their true face. We live in the information age. People will know that they have taught many end dates based on fantasy. They will understand that on jw tv they do not present reality but a manufactured version of reality.
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Pickled brain says:
May 12, 2015 at 3:33 pm
@Simon Kestrel . I have listened to that talk by Fred Franz to the Gilead Graduates in the Early 1970s & Freddy was arguing against a GB because all the power & Doctrinal Decisions up until 1971 had been in the hands of the President,First Russell , then Rutherfords, then Knorr. Franz Knew there ARE NO GREEK WORDS for Governing Body !! The Apostle Paul went up to Jerusalem AFTER 13 Years on Missionary Work to SORT OUT the DOCTRINAL MESS of the Judaisers in Jerusalem trying to impose Circumcision on the Christian Congregation . As soon as it was sorted Paul Disappeared from Jerusalem on other Missionary Tours ! THERE WAS NO Centralised GB Franz Argued against a Governing Body & said it Was HOLY SPIRIT that was Guiding Individuals & Christians were no longer under Mosaic Law with a Centralised HQ whether Jerusalem,Bethel at Brooklyn or Warwick!!
So Yes Simon I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY with your Comments!! The Rank & File JW are being CONNED BIG TIME!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 12, 2015 at 3:48 pm
@Rob . I Totally Agree with you that the meetings are full of Robotic Comments, Robotic Talks; & Robotic Presentations!!
I was counselled recently on bringing RESEARCH from OLDER Watchtower Publications into my Answers at the Meetings because it might Stumble the Brothers in seeing the Inconsistencies & Changes in our Publications!!!! IRONIC to be counselled for using Older Watchtower Publications . 1984 by George Orwell Anyone .
I Just Smiled at the Elder & said ‘Thank you for your Concern & I told him he is such an Encouraging Elder & I Value his views highly , BUT I am only a publisher & Will try my best!!
He Beamed with Self Satisfaction!! I just ignored him & still Subtly bring in Older Publications & inconsistencies. But I think when you Flatter an Elder they find it hard to counsel you Again !! It’s about Psychological Warfare & I am in for the Long Haul !!
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Pickled brain says:
May 12, 2015 at 4:07 pm
@ScotWm. I answered up your point at Watchtower last week about Faithful Discreet Slave at Page 143 para. 1 of Proclaimers Book it states Russell for 30 Years until 1927 ,YES 30 YEARS was regarded as F&D Slave ; Then I said from 1927 until 2013 the SLAVE was the 144000 Anointed; Then in 2013 CHANGED AGAIN to 7 Members of the GB. I then said ‘IT IS SO WONDERFUL HOW The LIGHT gets LIGHTER & LIGHTER ‘ …. You could hear a Pin Drop as Brothers&Sisters are Computing in their Brains how Illogical all this is . I had one sister who had been BLANKING me for months because she was suspicious of my motives,this Sunday grab my arm & said ‘I Really Enjoy your Research & your Answers’!!!
I think She is Waking Up to the Truth about the Truth. Others over the Last Year who have Completely ignored me are Smiling… Only a Few But if I can SAVE a FEW my Plan is Working!!
7 LOUSY AMERICAN MEN have Wasted over 30 years of my Life by Crafty Manipulation of Scripture,so my turn now to USE THEIR OWN LITERATURE Against them. We all do it in our own way !! Wishing you all well in breaking down barriers!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 12, 2015 at 4:22 pm
@David. Forgot to say I Enjoyed your Last 3 comments. You show good insight . I agree the public are Seeing the TRUE FACE of the GB especially with TV.JW.Org & last One by Stephen Letts Begging for Money . Old JW diehards might try to ignore the Stupidity of it all, But Any NEW PERSON will see right through the HYPROCISY of it all& like any person buying a NEW CAR, Washing Machine,New House etc People Research THOROUGHLY these Material Things at a click of a button… They can Now do the same with the HISTORY of the JW Organisation & New Recruits will dry up once Research is done… That’s why URGENCY is needed to BAPTISE 11,12,13,14 year old to keep numbers increasing & look good in the figures in the yearbook!!
ScotWm says:
May 12, 2015 at 8:23 pm
RE: Pastor Russell’s Faithful Discreet Slave status: The Governing Body has now thrown him under the bus. Until further notice, Pastor Russell has lost his previous stature of being part of the slave class:
“Were the Bible Students in the years that lead up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weed-like imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.19)
On the bright side, Pastor Russell does receive honorable mention for establishing the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society:
“During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.11, p 6).
Having the Governing Body strip Pastor Russell of his former faithful slave status is the equivalent of having the Catholic Church say that Saint Peter wasn’t really the first pope.
Bad Penny says:
May 12, 2015 at 5:00 pm
Looks like Lenny has gone back to sleep, oh, well, we did try!
Yawn, yawn, Zzzzz ….
Maybe he’ll dream a dream, and see an enormous image, a large black pyramid, engraved with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, located in Rosemount United Cemetery, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
It’s a good place to start.
Pickled Brain
– Using their own literature to discredit –
How about reading about Passover in the ‘Insight’ book, para 3. What day did Jesus celebrate the evening meal with his disciples?
What day did you celebrate it on this year?
Research needed …
It is interesting to note that this is the first year ever that Nisan 1st fell on the Spring equinox, March 20th, marked by a solar eclipse, so that everyone could work it out for themselves when Nisan 14 would fall. Remember it started on the evening of the 13th, becoming the 14th at sundown, and ended on the evening of 14th at sundown.
You would think the ‘anointed of Jehovah’ would get this day right, wouldn’t you?
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Pickled brain says:
May 12, 2015 at 11:58 pm
@Bad Penny. Nice Comment & yes we did Try with Lenny , but I do have high hopes for him because for someone to come onto this site & then STAY for a few Hours Discussing with us WICKED APOSTATES??!! I think he Protests tooooo Much & he won’t forget the points raised & Maybe,Just One Day as the system dragssss on the little doubts start to surface!!! & I will have a look at your point on the Passover in the Insight book .
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Pickled brain says:
May 13, 2015 at 12:26 am
@ScotWm. Yes I have Noticed how that the GB Have Downgraded Russell in that July 2013 WT .Russell is no longer part of the F&D Slave & very craftily with one Penstroke because the GB changed the start of the F&D Slave as no longer in 33 c.e BUT in 1919.ALSO interestingly the GB in that WT said all the APOSTLES were no longer part of the F&D Slave BUT the Apostles were still part of a Governing Body, Even though there is NO GREEK Terminology for The Words ‘Governing Body ‘ in the New Testament. What the MISTAKE the present GB Make the more you Fiddle about with Interpretations of Parables which weren’t meant to be taken literally the more People will think if the GB can CHANGE (Light getting Lighter???) an interpretation 2,3,4 times whose to say this time it is Right & it won’t change 5,6,7 times!!
JEHOVAH & The Bible DOESNT CHANGE,But THE GB CONSTANTLY CHANGING their Interpretations. This SHOWS THEY Are JUST GUESSING when they now say the DUBIOUS Words ‘The EVIDENCE SHOWS ‘ …. NOT ‘Holy Spirit’ shows this like they used to say in Russell’s time & Rutherfords time when they wrote Over 25 books with CONSTANTLY CHANGING of DOCTRINE & it’s Interpetation!!
HONESTLY can ANY JW who Does Proper Research in the WHOLE of the Dubious History of the PAGAN Origins of this Organisation believe JEHOVAH would be HAVING A LAUGH at this CONFUSION HE is Causing!! It is ALL UTTER DRIVEL the GB are Publishing & the More they Change the More RIDICULOUS they Look. I feel like SINGING ‘HAPPY ‘ by Pharrell Williams at seeing the INSANE FOOLS they are making of themselves!!!!
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anonymous says:
May 13, 2015 at 2:53 am
@ScotWm, in that July 2013 Watchtower simplified edition it said that the wheat class are the 144,000 so it was saying then that Russell wasn’t even part of the 144,000. That would make all of those early Bible Students also not of the 144,000. I looked it up and saw that the “wheat” are the 144,000 in other places besides that Watchtower but most Witnesses think when the Society is talking about separating the wheat from the weeds that it’s the same as separating the sheep from the goats but it’s two different classes they are talking about but the Society doesn’t make the distinction very often at all.
So, the Society did throw Russell under the buss along with all the other supposed “remnant” at that time so then as long as the light keeps getting brighter and brighter, when did they actually “get it right?” As long as the Society says that we can’t use older literature, then they should also not refer back to older literature but they still do when it’s convenient to imply that they got it right way back when.
How could anybody believe them when they say that Jesus and Jehovah chose the Watchtower in 1919 if they were weeds? How could a thinking person not put that together that it’s all a pile of poo?
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Pickled brain says:
May 13, 2015 at 4:25 am
@Anonymous. I Enjoy all your comments. You REALLY put a lot of thought & Analysis into your posts . Yes you are SO RIGHT about the Difference between the GB different Interpretations of ‘Wheat&weed’ parable & the’sheep&goats’ .The GB are saying NOW that the Sheepie& Goatie parable is future after the Great Tribulation Starts whereas the Wheat&weed parable is happening at the moment!!
Welcome to the EVER CRAZY CHANGING WORLD of the Governing Body!!!!
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ScotWm says:
May 13, 2015 at 9:26 am
The Governing Body is now saying that the spirit-anointed, faithful slave class was never appointed over all the Master’s belongings.
However, the self-appointed Governing Body, which claims to be the faithful slave class, has assured us that they will indeed be appointed over all the Master’s belongings! Here is the official prophesy:
“When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment — over all his belongings.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.25 par.18).
Unless “loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics” includes the Governing Body’s record of continually-changing interpretations of bible parables, incorrectly predicting many future prophetic dates and constantly lying about Watchtower history, this Watchtower prophesy will, as always, prove to be false.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 14, 2015 at 8:06 am
They threw Russell and “his associates” under the bus to make room for all of these new members of the 144,000 in heaven. Considering that since 2003 to 2013 (year-books) there has been an increase of over 5,000 people to the 144,000, an average of +500 a year. In 2014 there was an increase of over 1,000 people, just for that year alone.
The society cannot justify this increase, due to their logic and belief. That is to say “the closer we get to Armageddon, the fewer the number of the 144,000 will be”. With the numbers simply not adding up, they had to make “room” for these people and that involved making Russel and his associates part of a new class, the “John the Baptizer” class (W07/15/2013 “a messenger “clears up a way” page 10-11) which did not have a heavenly hope, but was merely a messenger of those to come (ergo the vacancy sign in heaven lit up again).
Sadly for the Governing Body, this logic is like shoving a square peg into a round hole.
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ScotWm says:
May 17, 2015 at 9:18 am
RE: Pastor Russell’s demotion and the ever-increasing 144 thousand class: The Watchtower Society has created a caste system, but each of the various levels of importance is called a “class.” There are so many of these imaginary classes that I can’t remember all of them. There is a Jeremiah class, an Ezekiel class a John class, a Jonadab class, an earthly class, a heavenly class a faithful slave class and on and on it goes.
Pastor Russell and his associates have not been dropped from the ever-expanding 144 thousand class, they have only been demoted one level from the faithful slave class back to the 144 thousand class. And don’t forget that most of the latest wave of memorial partakers are mentally ill:
“A number of factors – including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance – might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones.” (August 15 Watchtower study edition, page 22.)
As the heavenly class continues to expand, it does not appear that it will put a strain on the 144 thousand heavenly class member threshold. The numbers can always be manipulated and claims can be made that many of the memorial partakers are totally nuts.
It is obvious that the Governing Body class needs to distance itself from all other memorial partakers. We can only imagine what would happen if a group of mentally and emotionally unbalanced persons were allowed to dream up bizarre scriptural fantasies and have them printed in Watchtower magazines and books. Some of these crazies might actually become televangelists and appear in Watchtower videos.
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anonymous says:
May 13, 2015 at 3:01 am
A great video on my plastic microphone on youtube.
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kat says:
May 13, 2015 at 8:52 am
Thank you Anonymous excellent video! should be number one!!
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Ted says:
May 13, 2015 at 10:26 am
Lett said “More. Money going out than coming in” giving the
impression they were overspending on “Kingdom Interests”
This I can’t believe ! when it comes to money this is the one
area where they are “discreet”, no way would they over budget.
If there is a shortfall it’s likely due to unexpected developments
such as a dramatic fall in literature revenue and voluntary
contributions, and hush money payments to sexual victims etc.
As they are so crafty and cautious in financial matters it’s more
than probable that they are pre-empting these developments
and taking advanced action to offset them.
“All churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to
me to be no other than human inventions. Set up to terrify and
enslave mankind and to monopolise power and PROFIT”.
( Thomas Paine, “The Age of Reason”. )
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 13, 2015 at 12:32 pm
@Ted
I find it hard to believe they are in a position where they have a shortfall–at present. They are not fools in financial matters. Was the word “shortfall” mentioned in the broadcast? I don’t remember that. I don’t think they are out of money, or near running out of money. What he said, if I remember correctly and I will paraphrase: After considering what they are planning, they will have more money going out than coming in. If those plans are brought to fruition and the current donation level doesn’t increase, *then* there would be a shortfall. Of course, the easy answer to that is: cancel your plans.
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SwimmingWild says:
May 13, 2015 at 2:26 pm
@Finn Sawyer
Interesting point – my feeling is that this is dealing with an unexpected problem, largely of their own making. Lett said that the letter to the congregations was misunderstood, and inferred (don’t recall him saying this) that this has resulted in a significant drop off in contributions. This would make sense – they are the F&D Slave after all is said and done – so they would have accurately planned their outgoings! It would be a drop off in contributions that was unexpected. They will be planning WELL AHEAD and as you say there can be no immediate cash flow problem.
So perhaps their CLEVER PLAN to put everyone ON THE HOOK was met with real resistance and they are dressing it up by saying they were misunderstood. Perhaps people are revealing their unease about loosing their paid-for KHs by reducing their contributions, or failing to increase them as requested.
These grim JW broadcasts are completely de-mystifying the GB – and sites like this providing a haven for the disillusioned and confused to find clarity and peace. And a quicker recovery when they leave.
SwimmingWild
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anonymous says:
May 13, 2015 at 2:31 pm
Another thing that I thought was so funny about Lett’s speech is when he said that a person could attend the meetings for 20 years and if they didn’t put a donation in the contribution box that nobody would know. Jehovah would know but the brothers wouldn’t know. I can see paying for the water and electricity and nothing else since the Society owns all the Kingdom Halls.
When you rent, it’s the landlord who is responsible for the upkeep of the outside of the building and to fix anything that breaks etc. Why should the brothers be made to pay for the building and all the upkeep and then when the hall is sold, the money for the sale goes to the Society?
Why should I pay rent when I own my house? If the money is going for Kingdom Halls in foreign lands, then let us see the pictures of all the halls and where they are located and how much they cost etc. If the Society is going to be buying up expensive motels and condos, let us see how much they pay and why are they buying them. If they are selling their buildings in New York or anywhere else in the world, let us know what they are getting for those buildings. None of those buildings would have been renovated if it hadn’t been for the free labor from all those who donated their time and money to fix up those buildings. All those buildings are worth millions and millions of dollars more than when they were bought because of all the free labor from Bethelites to fix them up. Why aren’t the Bethelites reimbursed for all their hard work? They are made to believe it’s for the worldwide work but it’s to line the pockets of the Society instead with free labor. They were being used and made fools of and not by God either.
It’s money the rank and file are putting in the contribution box and it isn’t “Jehovah’s” money. It’s money that the rank and file donated and the Governing Body needs to answer to them for where it goes. Saying it’s “Jehovah’s” money is saying that they only need to answer to Him where it’s going like it belonged go God in the first place but that money didn’t just come from God. Those people earned that money with hard work and they went without, to put that money in the contribution box and they deserve to know what the Society is doing with it.
Just making a blanket statement that there’s more money going out than what’s coming in, is all they offer in explanation and nobody is even allowed to ask where the money is going. If they even ask, they will be looked at as going “apostate” and not trusting in “God’s mouthpiece” and probably shunned.
People are foolish if they start projects that they can’t complete unless they have the funds first. That is the way it goes for a foolish person. A wise person saves up the money first and then starts the project or buys the product. A wise person doesn’t take out a loan for a house they can’t afford.
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Ted says:
May 13, 2015 at 2:50 pm
@ Finn Sawyer, Thanks Finn, after listening again to
Lett’s broadcast I realised its as you point out,
there would be a shortfall between the cost of FUTURE
plans and PRESENT donations.
The guilt tripping was even more evident and sickly the
second time of listening. — “We don’t want to be
categorised with other organisations that coerce their
supporters to donate. You could attend the Kingdom
for 20 years and never donate, no one would know
( But JHVH would ” ! ).
They are so transparent, once the spell is broken.
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Bad Penny says:
May 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm
anonymous – like the video.
Right on sister!
On your last comment, yes, it is foolishness to start to build your tower without having the funds to complete it.
This is a scriptural principle of course.
It just shows how the GB are really more in line with the foolish virgins, as opposed to the discreet.
They are only discreet in their own eyes.
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Willows says:
May 14, 2015 at 1:22 am
A little trust would not go astray. Allow the congregations to hold the property titles in their own name. They worked hard to establish those properties.It seems trust is lacking in ones fellow man or women. Members in a congregation manage their finances well. They drive older cars for one thing, what brand of cars to the governing body drive? The cars parked at Warrick what brand are they. It seems the life style, the image is more important than living within ones means. Holding all the titles of all the properties, under different umbrellas is that showing trust. To those who paid for them.
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anonymous says:
May 14, 2015 at 3:07 am
This is from Wikipedia under Ponzi scheme:
A pyramid scheme is a form of fraud similar in some ways to a Ponzi scheme, relying as it does on a mistaken belief in a nonexistent financial reality, including the hope of an extremely high rate of return. However, several characteristics distinguish these schemes from Ponzi schemes:[1]
In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a “hub” for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. (In fact, failure to recruit typically means no investment return.)
A Ponzi scheme claims to rely on some esoteric investment approach and often attracts well-to-do investors, whereas pyramid schemes explicitly claim that new money will be the source of payout for the initial investments.
A pyramid scheme typically collapses much faster because it requires exponential increases in participants to sustain it. By contrast, Ponzi schemes can survive simply by persuading most existing participants to reinvest their money, with a relatively small number of new participants.
An economic bubble: A bubble is similar to a Ponzi scheme in that one participant gets paid by contributions from a subsequent participant (until inevitable collapse). A bubble involves ever-rising prices in an open market (for example stock, housing, or tulip bulbs) where prices rise because buyers bid more because prices are rising. Bubbles are often said to be based on the “greater fool” theory. As with the Ponzi scheme, the price exceeds the intrinsic value of the item, but unlike the Ponzi scheme, there is no single person misrepresenting the intrinsic value.
My words again:
How did the Society get all the money in the first place to “loan” out to the congregations for the 30,000 new halls and renovations? It was donated to them to pay for the literature and upkeep of the Bethels and for new Kingdom Hall construction in poor countries. We were shown where poor brothers and sisters had to sit in the rain and outside and couldn’t afford a Kingdom Hall. That is why that money was contributed in the first place.
At least 30 years ago, our congregation was asked to buy the insurance for the Hall through the Society. I remember our congregation was paying every month to the Society for the insurance. The Society thought as long as every Kingdom Hall needed insurance in case of a fire and were paying outside insurance companies, why not go into the insurance business and get money from that in the form of a donation. We were always asked to pay for the Circuit Overseer’s expenses. Then we were asked to pay for their cars and their insurances. Our congregation expenses every month was more for paying off expenses incurred for insurances to the Society and car expenses of the circuit overseers than anything else.
Then there was a box for paying for the literature that everyone used at the door. Then there was a box for the worldwide work. Then the regional building committee decided that our 15 year old Kingdom Hall needed renovations at the cost of $37,500 and the congregation took out a loan for that. Then our congregation paid off that “loan” for that and now our congregation was asked to “donate” that amount every month for poor brothers and sisters who couldn’t afford to build a hall where they could be comfortable in and they were asked to “donate” any funds they had in the bank and our congregation “donated” $7,500 that they had saved up for a new parking lot and our congregation “donated” that and the congregation was kept in the dark that actually the letter that the elders didn’t read was that the Society was putting pressure on the congregation to hand any money they had in the bank and the elders complied with that pressure, thinking that the Society would never lie to them since God is supposedly directing the Society.
This sounds like a scheme from the “corporation” of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to build huge “banks” where they could loan out money for interest and then they were caught and decided that since the I.R.S. was going to come after them for being a “bank” for loaning out money at interest, they would no longer be considered a “charity” and instead of paying off “loans” the congregations would be tricked into calling it a “donation” instead and then the Society could get away with “charging” interest on “loans”.
But how did they get all this money that they were so generous in “forgiving” the loans in the first place? They never earned a penny of that money that the “bank” of the Society loaned out. It was all given to them under the pretense of supporting the world wide work. They never “earned” a cent of that money that they seem so “generous” is loaning out.
Those men haven’t earned one red penny that they “donate” out of their own pockets to the world wide work. They get new suits from that donated money and they get new cars and plane rides and health care. How much money did they ever earn in their entire lives that they donate to the work? All they do is manage money coming in. They consider that a “job” that they can feel good about “taking” money from those donations from.
They can “take” as much as they want and don’t have to answer to anybody. They can decide how much they want and take it and nobody has to know. Nobody is allowed to ask either. Nobody is allowed to criticize them for it. They don’t even have to go in service because their “job” is managing the money and giving talks and guilting people into giving more and more and more to them.
Ask yourself: Where did they get so much money in the first place that they could become a bank to “loan” out all that money?????? Where was that money supposed to go when it was donated to them???????
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kaput says:
May 14, 2015 at 3:27 am
Greetings from South Africa
Dear Stephen Lett and associates
Before requesting payment, please can you pay this outstanding bill due to myself, friends and family:
– Parents sale of family house in 1971 due to WBS instruction and peer pressure to pioneer – USD $200 000
– Loss of income due to WBS discouragement to get a professional qualification – USD $ 3 000 000
– Loss of income due to serving a six year community service sentence due to WBS stance on neutrality – USD $ 120 000
– Supporting elderly parents due to discouragement from WBS to build a retirement fund, housing or medical provision in their younger years – USD $100 000
– Divorce costs after 12 years of an unhappy marriage (for both parties) based on WBS teaching to “marry only in the lord” – USD $ 40 000
– Emotional grief for not meeting the required field service hours, being ministerial servant or elder “material” – USD ???
Cost of being no part of WBS and living a happy, balanced life – priceless!!!
Have a nice day
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 6:29 am
@kaput. I DO Like your STYLE of Writing & Especially DEEP Analysis of DETAILS in what Compensation you are owed by the Governing Body & I think we should send Stephen LETTS & Co. Your Bill times 8 Million WASTED LIVES .I think you should INCREASE your compensation for 12 Years of Failed Marriage because of the ‘MARRY in the LORD’ directive from $40,000 to at Least $120,000 !!’
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 14, 2015 at 6:51 am
This is good. But, compensation for lack of higher education should be in the millions USD.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 14, 2015 at 7:20 am
Whoops, sorry just noticed it was!
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anonymousish1987 says:
May 14, 2015 at 10:19 pm
Wow. Reading that almost brought me to tears. I am so sorry for all the loss you have sustained. It is frustrating and makes me so angry at these years lost, the time lost. The constant struggle of coming to terms with the emotional, physical and financial loss. I pray for all those who have lost family friends property and sanity to this mess.
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Ted says:
May 14, 2015 at 5:28 am
@ anonymous, You’ve got these guys down cold.
They just take from communities and put nothing
back. Invest more of your time ( your life, ) more
of your money, and all for a fictitious dividend.
It’s coming soon, just hang in there, can’t fail, God
is our backer ! What a con ! Al Capone, the Mafia,
just amateurs by comparison.
Al got nailed by the I,R,S, the 7 GB crooks are tax
exempt as a “Registered Charity” . That surely is
a euphemism, charity involves giving to those in
need, something of value, not failed promises false
hopes. Wake up I,R,S,
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 6:37 am
I do think it is a BIG MISTAKE of the GB to Broadcast from now on in 40 Languages every month starting with this Stephen LETTS ‘BEGGING for Money ‘ May Broadcast. The Germans,French,Italians,Dutch,Swedish,Norwegian ,etc & other Educated Europeans will not be as Gullible as many less well educated South Americans,Africans& People from Philipines & Far East. I Think & I hope I am right but maybe the figures will show a decrease in some European Countries in next years Yearbook???!
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 6:43 am
@Anonymous . EXCELLENT Analysis of the Financial RIPOFF by the 7 RICH MEN of the GB !! I wouldn’t call it aPonzi scheme But a STINKING PONCY SCHEME!!!!
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anonymous says:
May 14, 2015 at 7:25 am
This is a really good video on Youtube with Brian Culkin and his involvement with Scientology and he could be describing the Watchtower Society and how it’s all about the money. This interview is an hour long but well worth the time to listen to it. This is a video you can show somebody who isn’t a Witness and they should see all the similarities between Scientology and JW’s and how evil it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R31Ea2FjKhE
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 14, 2015 at 10:22 am
I’m not saying the WTS is transparent, or even fair with what they do with donations, but I will defend them against others that suggest donations are lining their pockets. I spent time at Patterson Bethel, which was often called “the country club” by Bethelites, but it was far from having a resort-feel. True, they do have cost-free living with many perks, but I never saw evidence of anyone getting rich or any kind of financial corruption. The transportation usually consists of general motors vehicles they purchase or lease through a discounted fleet deal. They are practical, comfortable and dependable as they would need to be, but not luxurious as some suggest. The housing is clean and well-maintained, though quite small and has no fancy features whatsoever. Married couples have tiny 1 bedroom apartments and the single brothers pile in 2-4 per apartment. Basic furnishing are provided and nothing else. If you travel they do set you up with a laptop. I delivered laundry to the rooms so I was able to see many. As far as I could tell, the “heavies” as we called the anointed or old experienced ones, really had nothing in the way of material things over anyone else there. The stipend for all was $90/month. Traveling overseer couples do have a lot paid for them as well, but if you ask me, their lives totally suck otherwise.
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anonymous says:
May 14, 2015 at 2:44 pm
Finn, are you privy as to the Governing Body’s bank accounts? Do they get “gifts” from people? Do the Governing Body members and their wives have to do their own housework and cooking? How much money do they get every week?
Answer me this: Why do the congregations have to pay forever on “loans” that they took out from the Society and paid off and not own that Kingdom Hall and when or if it’s sold have to start all over again with payments forever?
People who belong to Scientology get paid only $50 a week so they get paid even more than Bethelites. If the Bethelites get $90 a month, that amounts to about 50 cents an hour and then of course those people have to go in service and meetings too.
At least people who belong to Scientology get over a dollar an hour. Both cults take advantage of really good people who think they are saving the world and the way the Society is getting rich off of it is by accumulating real estate properties and even though the “mortgages” are called “donations”, they are still unending “mortgage” payments which are never ending.
The Society makes Witnesses feel that God is commanding them to go to the meetings. That is the first guilt trip they lay on the Witnesses. The 2nd guilt trip is then that if they go to meetings, then they have to support the Hall and the Society. It’s all a money making scheme in the name of religion.
I feel so sorry for the Bethelites. We all know that the Bethelites aren’t getting rich. They are being used and abused.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 14, 2015 at 3:37 pm
I feel sorry for the bethelites as well. Having been one though, I can tell you, the majority think they are heads above the rest of us.
It’s not hard to see where all that money is going. The WTS is an enormous, complex, global conglomerate. Rather than speculate with what they do with all that extra money, the real question IMO is how they raise enough money to finance what is visible. Take Patterson for instance, the “watchtower educational center.” It truly is a city unto itself. Besides the large apartment buildings and enormous auditorium, dining hall, kitchen and office buildings and all the constant repair and maintenance those need– they have male/female gyms, a pool, a parking garage complete with carwash bays, gas station, a HUGE high-tech automotive repair shop with in-house auto parts store. They have their own water reservoir complete with a waste water treatment plant, a ranch with beef cows, an orchard, carpentry and mechanical shops, tons of construction equipment, the audio/video department (which is its own small campus), the Patterson Inn, which is multi-unit motel for visitors the size of a small apartment complex, welding shops, diesel shops, tool shops, computer departments, professional laundry and dry cleaning, a shoe shop, barber, a real dr. office, chiropractor office, physical therapy clinic, infirmary with numerous hospital rooms to care for the old folks, commissary, fire department, several off-site houses where the lawyers and doctors live with their families. And no, they are not nice houses, really average actually. I have seen them all. I could go on and on. I’m probably forgetting a lot and that’s just Patterson! The real question is, how do they have enough money to support what they have? I guess anything is possible but I think it is highly unlikely there are hidden playboy mansions and yachts we don’t know about. If the GB were making discreet deposits into their personal accounts it would be for nothing, because they don’t really have any expenses and no time to do anything with it. I understand wanting to insinuate the GB is crooked, but I don’t think they are in financial matters. If this could be proven it really would be the end of them. Your question about gifts is weird, because we all get gifts, its besides the point. And nobody gets has to cook/clean for themselves–that’s part of the deal if you work there, unless of course you are the cook or the housekeeper. There are a lot of Bethelites that were wealthy before they came, its one reason they can afford to be a full-time volunteer.
Anyway, I have a lot of gripes with the WTS, but financial dealings isn’t one and all the speculation about their accumulation of wealth seems far-fetched when you consider what they need just to support what facilities they have at present. Now you made me defend the GB and its put me in a bad mood. Signing off for a few hours. :)
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Grace says:
May 15, 2015 at 6:12 pm
@Finn Sawyer,
Thank you for enlightening me on the Bethel homes. I always wondered how they were able to maintain such a city.
Your input is invaluable.
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anonymousish1987 says:
May 14, 2015 at 10:26 pm
Sweetie we’re not talking about the ones who are duped. People think because its not blatant and can’t be clearly be scrutinized. You have to be removed to see it clear. These men and their families I’m sure are all millionaires and live like it. Very people get close enough and NOBODY can’t scrutinize them. Or their spending or their activity. It’s all cloak and dagger. It’s BS essentially and only an OUTSIDE force will be able to bring it all to the light. And I’m praying it happens sooner rather than later.
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Excelsior! says:
May 14, 2015 at 2:11 pm
Finn Sawyer,
Thank you for your insight. This raises the question, who does benefit from all that lovely money?
There are people, I am sure, that REALLY run the WTBTS. They don’t appear on stages, or have offices at any Bethel. They are the beneficiaries of the multi million property flipping scheme, and I would like to know who they are!
I wonder if there are mansions and other luxurious buildings for the high ups to enjoy, unknown and unused by lowly Bethel drones?
There is that 5 bedroom, 5 bathroom property in Wales, England, that the IBSA bought recently. Not much good for printing literature! That is the official purpose of the IBSA in Britain!
Let’s face it, they could easily purchase property that the lower down folks would have no knowledge of for the “cream of the crop” to enjoy. I have no proof that this is the case, but it would not surprise me at all.
Whatever the eventual fate of the money, it is indisputable that the WTBTS are inscrutable with their finances, and fleece the flock for every penny they can squeeze out of them.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@Finn Sawyer. & @ Excelsior. Enjoyed both your comments. Finn, I would like to have your faith in what is happening to the donations,but I in this case Tend to agree with Excelsior & I will give you my reasons but I may be wrong & willing to be corrected.
9 years ago I went to Bethel for lunch with my wife to meet a sister who has been working at Bethels in Brooklyn for 30 years & worked in Mill Hill for 6 years. She had looked after many of the Anointed when they came to her & she said 11 properties on the roads around Mill Hill including The Ridgeway were owned by Watchtower. All these Homes were valued over £1.5 million pounds each , nowadays much more & more were being bought up . As we drove around after the meal in our car she pointed out where Circuit & District Overseers & other High Ranking Personel were living & which houses. Many of the houses were lovely Tudor Style houses. Then she told me she had to share a room with another sister & share a bathroom with 4 others.
This reminds me of what OLIN Moyle ( who used to be a Loyal JW& Lawyer)in 1939 said in court against Rutherford that he Lived in a 10 room MANSION (Beth SARIM) & had 2 Cadillacs, A property on Staten Island & rooms at Bethel !! He Also told Haydon Covington in 1941 & Knorr& Franz that he wanted them to Go FIRST CLASS Travel whether by Plane,Rail,Boat etc .
Now I do the Accounts for my Congregation.The Circuit overseer gets A BRAND NEW CAR every 3 Years, All Insurance,Maintenance,Road Tax,Petrol , Food& Circuit Flat All PAID by the Congregations in the Circuit. PLUS our Congregation collected over £345 in an Envelope one Visit for them to go on Holiday. Other Visits Many Brothers give Individual Envelopes at the End of the Visit with £20 or more in ! I have seen the wife being given at least 25 to 30 Envelopes! So say weekly about on average £400 to £600 TAX FREE on top of all the other PERKS I have just mentioned!! YET the Apostle Paul visited many congregations & YET worked as a TENTMAKER so as not to be a BURDEN on the Brothers! JESUS Had Nowhere to Lay his head!
I Would be LESS SUSPICIOUS if the Watchtower PUBLISHED Yearly ACCOUNTS Itemising:
1) DONATIONS from Money
2) DONATIONS from Property
3) DONATIONS from Stocks,Shares&Wills
4) Watchtower Property Value SOLD
5) Then Expenses on Literaure,Kingdom Halls
& Travel,Hotel Rooms,Clothes,Cars,Food Etc.
ME CYNICAL??? Noooooo!!! JUST want some Details like anyone who calls themselves a Charity
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 3:32 pm
In my Last comment about half way down I said He told Haydon Covington,Franz& Knorr to go First Class … The ‘He’ was Rutherford told them in a Quote from Haydon Covington.
If anyone gets time Google ‘ Haydon Covington ‘. This Man I Have TOTAL ADMIRATION for the GUTS& COURAGE he had But Even though he was Vice President of Watchtower 1942-1945 He was forced to step down because he was Honest to say he was of the Great Crowd . I believe FORCED out by Knorr who he didn’t trust. Haydon was a BRILLIANT LAWYER but had his weaknesses & Left Bethel in 1963 as he was Disfellowshipped for Alcoholism. If you google Muhammad Ali & Haydon Covington it is so Fascinating. Haydon Defended Muhammad Ali in court on the Draft issue in Vietnam & Haydon won his case for Ali in 1967 . Haydon died in 1978 from Alcoholic related problems but said to say he was contacted a few months before his death & reinstated as a JW!!
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 14, 2015 at 6:29 pm
Interesting about Hayden Covington, I will try to look into that.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 14, 2015 at 3:41 pm
Hey PB,
See my above comment. I have my problems with the GB and the WTS, but I just can’t see financial corruption happening. Like I said, they have so much to pay for it boggles my mind they can raise enough to keep the lights on.
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anonymous says:
May 14, 2015 at 5:47 pm
Finn, I fully understand that the Society has an awful lot to pay for every month. I know that.
We were always told to keep our life simple. The more you buy, the more there is for upkeep. That was always the advice to the rank and file. If you own 5 houses, then you have 5 houses to take care of and pay for upkeep and taxes and grass to mow and the more you have to pay somebody to take care of those properties when you aren’t there to take care of that property.
We were always told to keep our lives simple. Why were we told to keep our lives simple? So that we would be able to give the Society more money. That is the way I see it.
In the beginning, Russell was publishing millions of books and magazines and they had almost nothing compared to today. If you have thousands of Bethelites working in those Bethels, of course, it’s going to cost millions to take care of them. If the Society wanted to keep it simple, they could put the magazines online and people could print out the magazines they want to place and it wouldn’t cost the Society anything in Bethelites and upkeep of buildings. I have already done that lots of times when I couldn’t find my Watchtower. The congregations already prints out stuff already. I believe the whole thing is a scam to get real estate in the guise of religion.
The Watchtower and Awakes that the public get are nothing but pablum. There is nothing of value in any of those magazines anymore. Those magazines and books are just an excuse for those buildings. You can’t have all those buildings without people (Bethelites) working there, now can you?
The whole point of the organization is supposed to be “witnessing” about Jehovah. The whole point shouldn’t be building more and more buildings but that is what the Society cares about a whole lot more than it does the “spiritual” food. The “spiritual food” is supposed to be the stuff that they place door to door to convert the world. The Witnesses who are Witnesses already don’t need converting, so why new magazines for them every month?
Their main purpose is supposed to be what Matt. 28:19,20 says to preach the word. It shouldn’t be in the building of new Kingdom Halls. People don’t need a big shiny new Kingdom Hall to meet to go in service. We used to meet in each others’ homes and go from there. We used to meet in school gyms for assemblies. Now it’s all about new Kingdom Halls.
I believe that if the Society printed out an accounting of all the properties that they own, that an awful lot of Witnesses would stop supporting them and quit. Most Witnesses think that the only place that money goes to is to Bethels and new Kingdom Halls but they would be shocked to know the honest truth about all their properties. If they were all that broke, then why buy up luxury apartment buildings and new mansions in Europe?
I’d like to know how much money they take in from all the assemblies every year. We don’t know anything about how much they get in donations and how much do they get in stocks and bonds.
In the United States, the saying is that the banks are too big to fail. I also feel that way about the Society. I feel they have gotten so big that unless they start simplifying, that it will get to the point that they will have to start tithing like the Mormons do or start selling off more and more of their Kingdom Halls, until people get smart and quit them.
The Society shouldn’t be running up bills and expecting the rank and file to pay for it without having any say in the matter. There would be complete transparency if they were actually run by God.
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Ted says:
May 14, 2015 at 4:52 pm
@ Excelsior, I have similar thoughts as you , who really
pulls the strings. Are the 7 really in charge or are they just
Puppets ? Mr, Lett for instance gives a stunning impression
of one !
There’s no doubt the “Judge” was in absolute control and
had an opulent lifestyle. Wintering in the sun, cars that any
countries leaders or industrial tycoon would be happy to own,
and a well stocked liquor cabinet etc.
When his way of life was challenged by Olin Moyle., Moyle
and his wife were dismissed from Bethel and their personal
belongings thrown onto the pavement. ( Olin R, Moyle’s
charges against Rutherforde. were upheld in court. )
So who is the present day “Dictator/s,” living the deluxe life
off the toil and contributions of the exploited ? Like all cults
It’s a secret society, cards played very close to the chest, so
it’s difficult to fathom. But I know from hard won experience,
how to recognise a swindle.
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Ariel says:
May 14, 2015 at 5:58 pm
Mr. Lett admits freely in his dialogue that their intent regarding the “forgiveness” of kingdom hall loans was to actuate a larger donation from the decieved. Truly this must be gods word.
If their intentions or need for more cash were sincere, why then did they not say so to begin with??
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Ariel says:
May 14, 2015 at 6:28 pm
If all things, and especially all valuable things belong to god, then why does he require you to give him your valuable things? A more repugnant dilemma I cannot imagine. God is almighty, but he needs money.
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 7:33 pm
In Addition to my above comments what I find is TOTALLY CORRUPT or may I say ORWELLIAN?? Is the FARCICAL way when recently we Had a VOTE ???at our Kingdom Hall about sending £9000 out of our £10,680 funds to Brooklyn as we were told in a letter we should only Keep 3 months operating expenses for the Hall !!
NOW as we all Know if when asked for a SHOW of HANDS if ANY JW DARES to vote Against what the Elders Propose Everyone in that hall will view that person as bad association & do that more than once& you will be Spoken to by the Elders in the back room!! IF IT WAS a TRUE VOTE like at the Election recently the ISSUE to be voted on would be Announced one Week then we would be given say 4 weeks to think about it then we would be Allowed a Question & Answer session for 15 minutes one Service Meeting say ‘Local Needs’ & then another 2 weeks later have a REAL VOTE WITHOUT ‘FEAR of OSTRACISM ‘ & Future Demotion in the Eyes of the Elders!!!
THIS Tells me the ORGANISATION is more like BIG BROTHER from 1984 than the Kind , Warm cuddly Brothers the GB Farcically try to portray!! To me the Longer I am in the Organisation the MORE SINISTER it Becomes!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 14, 2015 at 7:46 pm
OH& Brothers at the Circuit Assembly last week when the ACCOUNTS REPORT was read out to Let us Know we had Donated £3,498 & it costs £7,900 for the DAYS!!! Yes Days Running Expense for 800 Brothers which we paid off the Mortgage 11 years ago of £2.4 million!! & We all know the FAMOUS WORDS at the End of the reading of the Accounts Report ‘ Well ,Brothers we will leave the Deficit up to you Brothers’
What is FARCICAL I asked the Accounts Servant for our Circuit about this & he said the Society will Expect the Circuit to Pay the £,7,900 for the Days ???Running Expenses EVEN if we couldn’t get there if it was SNOWED OFF !!! The GB want the Money even if no one Attends????
ANY LOYAL JWs on this Site reading these Posts ‘ PLEASE WAKE UP & SMELL the ROSES’
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Simon Kestral says:
May 14, 2015 at 11:13 pm
@Pickled, the 100% unanimous vote, on every matter voted upon, always seemed strange to me. In more than 20 years, I NEVER saw anyone vote in opposition.
I eventually realized the “voting” was a legal shield for the elders, letting them disavow responsibility for decisions THEY already made. No period of discussion or debate needed. The elders (or their wives) already decided!
I was once tempted to vote in opposition to make a point, but I doubted anyone would get the point, so I abstained instead. That may have been a step in my awakening …
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Queen Elsa says:
May 15, 2015 at 2:01 am
This is an interesting article. Why 53 million for luxury apartments?! I would be ashamed to ask for more donations.
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/05/12/jehovahs-witnesses-fishkill-tax-exemption/27206609/
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Pickled brain says:
May 15, 2015 at 3:11 am
@Simon Kestrel. I did what you did & ABSTAINED last year when our congregation voted for £3000 from our Congregation Funds for the Hospitality Day for the International Delegates that was for Food, hiring a hall for Entertainment,etc BUT what ANNOYED Me was the 6 MONTHS of REHEARSALS Singing,Dancing to Pharrell Williams ‘ Happy Song’ who is A RAPPER who Sleeps around & Sang about DATE RAPE in his Video ‘Blurred Lines’ !! ALL these Rehearsals were Held in the Kingdom Hall… The HOUSE of GOD !!!
The Elders were encouraging Brothers& Sisters to DANCE in their Seats & Get up & Dance in the Aisles to this Creeps music !!! FLIPPING STINKING HYPROCISY????
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anonymous says:
May 15, 2015 at 3:22 am
If every witness gave $1 a day towards the worldwide work, that would amount to $2,920,000,000.00 a year. I believe that most witnesses put at least $2 a day towards the worldwide work. All Lett has to do is give a talk like he did in the May broadcast and if each witness donated just $1 more a day than they did before, that little talk would be worth $2,920,000,000.00. Not bad for an hour and half talk, I’d say. The Society has been making loads of money right from the start. That is how they have always been able to acquire all those properties from the early 1900’s until today. It’s the real estate is how they are rich. They may not have tons of ready cash but they have property. That is how people get rich. It’s the stuff they buy with that money. If people want to get rich, they buy up real estate. They don’t buy clothes with it. If they want those properties, then they have to have staff in those buildings. They need an excuse for those buildings, thus the Bethelites.
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anonymous says:
May 15, 2015 at 3:53 am
How about just $10 a year more from each Witness for that little talk? That would be hardly nothing for 8 million people would it? Just think: $10 more a year from 8 million people equals $80,000,000.00 more from that little talk asking for more money and being so pathetic about it. Having 8 million followers and asking only $10 a year more, equals $80,000,000.00 more than they would have had before.
If 100,000 people fall away or get disfellowshipped each year would equal a loss of $10,000,000.00 if each of those witnesses only donated $100 a year, which is probably a really low figure. If they donated $500 a year, that would equal a loss of $50,000,000.00 a year.
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David says:
May 15, 2015 at 4:11 am
That Rutherford abused of his position is clear. Was he any different from any other person in the organisation? Why was he allowed to live in a mansion? Does that show Christ humility?
Obviously when the JW are in the wrong side they minimise or deny it.
I think that regarding the huge work the JW.org organisation does, it is a huge effort but done in the wrong way, and pleople see it.
I don’t see the point of spending huge funds to print the same information over and over again.
Jesus work was not about publising printed material or constructing buildings but on letting people realise the existence of a God and how it is important to love one another. It was simple and effective.
The apostle Paul did a huge work with simplicity, with only his feet and the Gospel message. Funds were collected ONLY to help the needy. He worked to support himself.
But obviously when you want to press the leaders agend on other people you need a tight mind conditioning program.
This is done by repetion, discouragement of asking questions, encoragement of trusting human leaders (insinuating that they have a dedicated phone line with God), discourage high education, etc.
They need to say in details how to dress, what to celebrare, what to think, who marry, etc, etc. If you go outside their guidlines you commit the unforgivable sin.
Many people notice the discrepancy between Christ message and JW.org message, that is why is their growth is not that important despate the enormous amount of hours and resources spent.
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Pickled brain says:
May 15, 2015 at 6:12 am
@ David. Mind Control & No Individual Conscience as you say in your Comment. All JWs are CONTROLLED by the GB Conscience OR ELSE your Family CUT YOU OFF !!
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Ted says:
May 15, 2015 at 8:09 am
They are worth untold ( undisclosed ) millions, “Tax Free”
and always want more , and get more ! What’s the trick?
Behind the unctuous, insincere appeals to the “Heart” they’ve
implanted, deep into the “Mind”, the threat and “Fear” of
Annihilation.
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SwimmingWild says:
May 15, 2015 at 1:27 pm
@Excelsior! – I’m not sure about there being some Mr Big in the background – I can’t see how that would work – the GB must be deluded, must be – and drunk on power – that’s their addiction as far as I see it
SwimmingWild
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 15, 2015 at 9:28 pm
Swimming–Agreed. I hope the rest of you don’t take this the wrong way: I think all this speculation about puppet masters and financial corruption is in poor form. Not only is there no evidence for it at present, but it is the kind of baseless accusations that are expected out of “apostates.” If a doubting JW is truly trying to see if “apostates” are telling the truth or merely making incredible insinuations as the WTS tells them we do, then many of the comments in this forum will support the fear mongering of the WTS. I think we should stick with facts, not speculative fantasies about the millions of dollars the GB has holed away. It serves no purpose and only alienates honest truth seekers that are trying to break away from the faith when they see there is no evidence. We apostates consider ourselves critical thinkers that require evidence, why would we then expect others to accept our baseless accusations?
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Excelsior! says:
May 18, 2015 at 4:53 am
Finn Sawyer,
I take your point, sir.
However, I think it is wholly appropriate for us to raise questions as to the final destination of the truly staggering funds that the WTBTS has at its disposal.
You will notice that I stated quite clearly that I do not, at present, have any evidence to state that there is a “Mr Big” siphoning off the profits.
If a tax free, billion dollar property empire cannot cater to a mere 8 million people, then there must be a problem, wouldn’t you agree?
I suggest that all of us write to whoever is responsible in our governments for charity status, and ask them to investigate.
I have already done this, and I encourage everyone to do so.
We need to force the WTBTS to provide accounts that are fit for purpose, so that we can KNOW where the money is going
I very much doubt that a speculative comment about a serious and obvious issue would stop anyone from waking up to the fact that the WTBTS is a cult.
People are either ready to wake up or they are not.
We need to do as I suggest, so that the “superior authorities” can provide independent, verifiable accounting for this opaque and devious religion.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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SwimmingWild says:
May 15, 2015 at 2:00 pm
@Pickled brain
Liked your description about the vote to “agree” the donation – no other result was possible. Its so PATHETIC from the outside – but in there, on board, it seemed to make sense. This is what makes watching JW Broadcasting so unpleasant, some level of reactivation of the trained neurology.
Deborah Frances-White in the last JWPodcast was really good and I especially related to one thing she said, trying to explain things to her never-been JW husband was “all of my thoughts are pre-thought” (at 1.12.6). I can remember experiencing in my 30s that there was no point in thinking about anything original, it needed to find a way to fit into the “explanation” from the org.
BTW as this site grows in popularity you’ll soon have others from your KH join us and your cover may be blown as you leak details – Que Sera, Sera?
Swimming Wild
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Innocent Son says:
May 15, 2015 at 2:38 pm
Great comments guys, I have the pleasure of reaching the 400 mark, on this thread, don’t think that’s everything been reached before! Keep up the good work Cedars’
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Pickled brain says:
May 15, 2015 at 2:53 pm
@Swimming Wild . Thanks for your Acknowledgement of my comment about the Ludicrous way Voting on Donations is handled within the Congregation,
You could be right one day my cover could get blown , But I am GAMBLING??? On most of those in our congregation are Loyal JWs who would obey the GB & never venture on to this site & the Few that might & Fade Away from the Org would stay Loyal to us Apostates!!!! It is a Risky Gamble but Life is more Fun this way! I was dying of BOREDOM not being an Individual with my Own Conscience NOT the Conscience of 7 Unchristian American Men in Brooklyn!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm
@Innocent Son . 400 threads & counting. Nothing gets people commenting more than when a RICH BADLY MANAGED ORGANISATION BEGS for MONEY from Hard working People who PAY Their TAXES!!
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Innocent Son says:
May 15, 2015 at 4:09 pm
Correct Pickled Brian, all they are is a…
DISHONEST BILLION DOLLAR BOOK PUBLISHING CORPORATION…!
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Innocent Son says:
May 15, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Or even Pickled brain, keyboards eh…! :-)
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shannon says:
May 15, 2015 at 5:02 pm
no wonder I drink!
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Grace says:
May 15, 2015 at 6:22 pm
@Anonymous,
My husband & I did a quick calculation like that too. It was mind boggling how much money that would be pouring into the www. That’s why Gerrit Losch was able to just throw 13 million dollars down the drain at that court case that he didn’t show up to. Easy come, easy go.
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Grace says:
May 15, 2015 at 6:28 pm
@Pickled Brain,
I think that I have told you this before but I enjoy all of your comments. You make me laugh out loud & you remind me of the movie ‘catch me if you can’.
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Pickled brain says:
May 15, 2015 at 8:17 pm
@Innocent Son . ‘Billion Dollar book publishing corporation’ …SO RIGHT!! Nowww let me seeee, What did Dear Wise ??? Uncle King Solomon say about Books… Ecclesiastes 12v12 the making of many books is WEARISOME to the Flesh!!! Ho Hum ,Ermmm ,… ARE YOU LISTENING Mr Anointed LETTS ???? Silly me Another Regional Convention coming up -NEW BOOK TIME= MORE GUILT RIDDEN DONATIONS!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 15, 2015 at 8:46 pm
@Grace . Thank you Kindly for your comment & it’s good to Laugh … So Doctors say !! That’s why I LOVE watching the Monthly Broadcast by the GB… Every time the A member of the GB Comments they are Digging a Bigger& Bigger Hole for themselves & BREAKING DOWN the ILLUSION that they have Some special Insight!! TV.JW.Org now in 40 Languages….Brilliant !!!… More Educated & Logical Thinking JWs ( there are a Few??) will see through the UTTER INSANITY of Any Sane Person would think they are Inspired ???? I am sure most would agree who comment on this site!
Wishing you& your husband well & I Enjoy your Comments & Everyone Else on this Site. You can tell from the comments Many Have been HURT BADLY by this Organisation & Many GAVE the BEST YEARS of Their LIVES to what they thought the GB were Guided by Jehovah but SLOWLY the Penny dropped that Jehovah wouldn’t Mislead GOOD People by the constant Flip Flopping of Teachings where it becomes Ridiculous & the Folly of it all is we can compare everything as it is in PRINT & now on The GB own Website which can be saved,Looked at time & Again for Sensible people to See the GB HAVE NO MORE CLUE How to interpret the Bible than any of the Great Crowd or Joe Bloggs in the Street!! Take Care … My Brain is becoming ‘LESS PICKLED’ as the Light Gets Lighter???
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Charles Costante says:
May 15, 2015 at 9:39 pm
“I’m not sure about there being some Mr Big in the background – I can’t see how that would work …. “.
I agree, SwimmingWild. If there was, the rumours would have started long ago.
” ……. the GB must be deluded, must be – and drunk on power – that’s their addiction as far as I see it”.
The power and the prestige.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 15, 2015 at 9:42 pm
Swimming and Charles–Agreed. I hope the rest of you don’t take this the wrong way: I think all this speculation about puppet masters and financial corruption is in poor form. Not only is there no evidence for it at present, but it is the kind of baseless accusations that are expected out of “apostates.” If a doubting JW is truly trying to see if “apostates” are telling the truth or merely making incredible insinuations as the WTS tells them we do, then many of the comments in this forum will support the fear mongering of the WTS. I think we should stick with facts, not speculative fantasies about the millions of dollars the GB has holed away. It serves no purpose and only alienates honest truth seekers that are trying to break away from the faith when they see there is no evidence. We apostates consider ourselves critical thinkers that require evidence, why would we then expect others to accept our baseless accusations?
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SwimmingWild says:
May 16, 2015 at 12:06 am
@Finn sawyer
There’s no denying they’ve plenty of wealth – for example did you see this link posted by @Queen Elsa
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/05/12/jehovahs-witnesses-fishkill-tax-exemption/27206609/
If the reward for the GB is the addictive exercise of power, imagine with what respect they would have been treated by the “world”
– the realtors lawyers etc – when they have that kind of cash to spend willy-nilly. The external evidence of power is wealth. Money talks.
Similarly the local community are a hacked off, being cheated of the property taxes, but I doubt the GB ever walk on the streets to meet these people.
SwimmingWild
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kat says:
May 16, 2015 at 6:16 am
Pickled Brain said. “Innocent Son . 400 threads & counting. Nothing gets people commenting more than when a RICH BADLY MANAGED ORGANISATION BEGS for MONEY from Hard working People who PAY Their TAXES!!”
bingo!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 16, 2015 at 7:27 am
@Kat . Eyes Down & FULL HOUSE!!
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laredac33 says:
May 16, 2015 at 8:12 am
Hi everyone,
Thank you so much Cedars for this wonderful article!
Translated to french here: https://tjvisioncritique.wordpress.com/2015/05/16/stephen-lett-reconnait-une-insuffisance-de-revenus-par-rapport-aux-depenses-et-il-rappelle-aux-temoins-de-donner-des-choses-de-valeur/
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Ted says:
May 16, 2015 at 8:18 am
Honesty is not innate in this org, they blatantly lie and obfuscate.
They lied about their ten year association with the U,N,
They deceived the Bulgarian Gov, over blood transfusion, —
stating that “No religious sanction would be applied”,
They deliberately quote authorities, out of context in order to
support their own false doctrines. Much, much, more could
be added.
What reason then do we have to believe their statements as to
where the money goes and how it is used.
I’d say it’s prudent to be “Suspicious ” of a proven liar, and to
voice those “Suspicions” in order to alert others.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 16, 2015 at 9:34 am
I’m not denying the org has tremendous resources, revenue streams, real estate holdings, financial instruments and etc. I am saying there is no evidence that WTS funds and resources go to anything but furthering their mission, however misguided that mission may be. There is no evidence for personal financial gain. If there is, I hope someone has alerted the IRS and I for one would be glad to see it come to light because I truly believe it would be the beginning of the end of them. Ted, I think I understand your point, but I personally see no benefit to voicing unfounded suspicions, especially when there is plenty of other harmful things for which there is evidence: shunning, transfusion refusal deaths, false prophecies, child abuse issues, etc. But, I know we all have a right to say what we want, so I’ll leave it at that. Just giving my .02.
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Pickled brain says:
May 17, 2015 at 12:45 am
@Ted . I Totally agree with your point on how can you trust an the GB because of the CONSTANT HALF TRUTHS …. LIES Really… But what the Heck I’m a Christian so let’s be Generous to the GB!!!
What I want if Dear Old Stephen Letts is BEGGING for DONATIONS is
1) PRINT the YEARLY ACCOUNTS of the Organisation !! IF the GB Have NOTHING to HIDE , What is the Problem!!
2) BE HONEST & ADMIT Mr Letts you Have BADLY MISMANAGED OUR DONATIONS by Paying out TENS of MILLIONS of Dollars in COMPENSATION to CHILD ABUSE VICTIMS!!! OUR HARD EARNED MONEY!!
3)Stephen LETTS me old Bible Scholar …You do remember that Scripture you keep Quoting in your GLORIOUS ?? Watchtower Studies at 1 John 2v15-17 about a ‘SHOWY DISPLAY of Ones means of life 4) Please could you Get Rid of all your FANCY RINGS,WATCHES,Business Suits,Showy TV STUDIO,Fancy Website,LUXURIOUS HQ for The GB at WARWICK…. I must say you do BRILLIANT Computer Graphics!!!
5) I Noticed in all your TEACHING SCHOOLS , Especially PATTERSON Every Desk has A COMPUTER & Could you GET RID of ALL those COMPUTER SCREENS at Every REGIONAL CONVENTION around the World.!!
6) HOW MUCH TIME & LOADSA of MONEY… I feel like Harry Enfield Speaking(British Comedian) …, is Spent on ALL of these Things. ALL WE NEED is a SPEAKER on a Podium at Stadiums with a Microphone & A BIBLE!! YES JUST GODs WORD!!
PLEASE NO FANCY GIMMICKS.
7) STEPHEN,My Fellow HUMBLE?? Christian… A bit of Advice….. KEEP Your EYE & LIFE SIMPLE & All these other things will be added to you in The NEW WORLD …, AHHH ….New World. Now where have I heard that before… Hmmm my Grandfather was a FREEMASON & he mentioned that Terminology…!!! NOT in The Bible Though!!
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 18, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Pickled,
I totally agree. There is no reason for the lack of transparency. I would like to see a statement of accounts as well.
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bk says:
May 17, 2015 at 12:10 pm
Lett’s presentation was like the scene from the Wizard of Oz where Toto pulls back the curtain to reveal that the Great, Fear-Inspiring Wizard is just a manipulative, confused, phony old prankster. Shame on the Governing Body for fooling we trusting Dorothy’s. But where’s the rainbow in all of this?
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Innocent Son says:
May 17, 2015 at 3:10 pm
@ Picked brain.Very well pit, the G.B. would never implement any of your suggestions as that would make them fallible…Which they think they are not, even if they admit to making mistakes, It’s just lip service.
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SwimmingWild says:
May 17, 2015 at 4:20 pm
@innocent son @Pickled brain
For some reason this all makes me think of “She was poor but she was honest” by Billy Bennett, a little story about a young woman being deceived, which has the chorus
It’s the same the whole world over,
It’s the poor what gets the blame,
It’s the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn’t it a blooming shame?
The GB have the pleasure of their unchallenged power, and are deceiving by withholding “the truth”. Then those trusting ones who believed, those who were “poor but … were honest”, are due to become even poorer after they have been drained by their life blood “Letting”.
And the beauty of it is that in the end it’s the “poor what gets the blame”, for believing it, and supposedly going too far by reading in what they were meant to read in, as in 1975.
SwimmingWild
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SwimmingWild says:
May 17, 2015 at 4:32 pm
This corrosive guilt loading begging talk really is a step too far.
And of course the GB are the only ones ALLOWED TO HAVE APOSTATE THOUGHTS, the only ones allowed to rubbish the current thinking.
And the rank and file have to scurry around behind them through
every twist and turn, just sucking it up, and only allowing themselves to think the pre-thought thoughts.
And when they wake up and leave what a peaceful world they find to enjoy in freedom.
SwimmingWild
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Jon says:
May 17, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Time for the rank and file to gather their own straw!
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Grace says:
May 17, 2015 at 5:04 pm
I think it was Pickled Brain that wrote a while ago on this site, “but it’s truly the true truth now”. It was one of my first lol moments when I came to this site that made me wake up & see the scam.
Do they think that people are that stupid that they should “forget about the old light, it’s apostate thinking to go back there” & what about those words… “truth”, “apostate” & “new light”, they just get thrown around like a frisbee used for every excuse or blame. It’s all so delirious.
Now, they’re treating everyone like complete idiots when they ask for more money because they’ve become accustomed to a certain lifestyle. Some say that they don’t own anything or take from the kitty but I see it like someone who is doing well on welfare or some inheritance. Why would they want to change anything when their whole life is catered for.
Another thing I thought is that maybe they’re trying to portray to the world that they’re successful & that God is with them but people can see through pretentiousness. Or that they want other religions to envy them. Whatever it is, it is going to backfire. They will reap the seeds that they have sewn, that’s for sure.
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Grace says:
May 17, 2015 at 5:07 pm
I forgot to add, liars will not inherit God’s kingdom.
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Wild Olive says:
May 17, 2015 at 8:24 pm
The GB really are despicable, all the JWs I know swoon over them endlessly, my mother in law was reading Geoffrey Jacksons life experience, listening to her is revolting, totally infatuated with people who will never know her.
I knew Jackson when he was a CO in Tasmania, when he was called to bethel in theUSA the whole island breathed a sigh of relief, no one misses him lol, one of the most self righteous pricks I ever met, at least he’s not as condescending as Letty Big Mouth.
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Charles Costante says:
May 18, 2015 at 2:47 am
“I knew Jackson when he was a CO in Tasmania …….”
Is that why his face looks so familiar to me, Wild Olive? Do you know if he served as CO in Western Australia in the seventies? Or maybe I remember him from giving talks at assemblies. It’s all a bit of a blur for me now (conscious decision to forget that part of my life).
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Pickled brain says:
May 18, 2015 at 6:21 am
@ Grace& @ Swimming Wild & @ Innocent Son.
Thanks for all your comments & I totally concur with all yours!
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Searcher says:
May 18, 2015 at 9:09 am
One thing to consider about the luxury lifestyle and amenities that these 7 self-righteous Pharisees in tailor-made suits. In the US, diverting funds in a corporation or non-profit for personal use items or luxuries is to be considered “imputed income” by the tax code. This has been prosecuted many times in the past against corporate CEO’s and non-profit leaders (i.e. televangelists) that divert funds for their own personal use. This is known as FRAUD! Let me define this for you GB (if you are reading); STEALING from those who support you. Many a CEO or board member has done time because of this behavior. Maybe the US IRS needs to poke around in the WTBTS books?
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Searcher says:
May 18, 2015 at 9:20 am
To follow this up, I’m NOT saying that they aren’t paying their taxes or using an inflated salary to cover the tax burden. No, they may be above board. I doubt it. Also, today if their much hallowed Judge Rutherford would have taken up residence in the Beth Sarim he prepared for the coming of the holy ones, then I’m almost certain the US IRS and State of California would have knocked on the front door of Beth Sarim. They wouldn’t have been selling paradise earth either!
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anonymous says:
May 18, 2015 at 12:46 pm
The thing is is that the rank and file think they are donating towards the worldwide work. That is what they are being led to believe that is where their donations are going. It is supposed to be going towards building Kingdom Halls for people in poor countries who don’t have the money for them. Instead, the money is going for more and more buildings to house and train Bethelites.
The Society can take money off their books when it comes to feeding and housing the Bethelites. They can take off their taxes depreciation off any of their equipment and buildings.
They can take all the donations they want to and build more and more Kingdom Halls in the United States and try and pass that off to the rank and file as “world wide work”. The Society can take off the money it costs to support the missionaries and all the Bethlites.
My question remains: How did they come up with all that left over money to “loan” out to the Kingdom Halls in the first place? Wasn’t that money that was donated supposed to go to building new Kingdom Halls for poor people in 3rd world countries? Why did they have all that left over money? And then they were charging interest on those loans. According to the Mosaic Law, they weren’t to charge interest to their brothers.
If the Society’s buildings in New York are worth $1 billion dollars, that is 1,000 millions of dollars. It is hard to imagine that amount of money, it is so much. But they are worth an awful lot more than that. If the Society goes under and every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses walks away from the “truth”, all those 35,000 Kingdom Halls and assembly halls will belong to the Society. It’s property is where they are stashing all the money under the pretense of being “worldwide” work.
The rank and file are being played for fools. It is so sad. What is the saddest thing is to realize that at the age of 68, I have pissed away the last 50 years of my life to this organization. I don’t even care as much about the fact that the Society will get away with defrauding all the Witnesses out of the money to acquire all that property. What is the most important thing is that every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses wakes up to the fact that they are being made fools of and walk away from it and save at least part of the rest of their lives instead of pissing it away on a fantasy like I did and millions of innocent victims have also done for the last 125 years with most of them having died chasing that fantasy.
If the truth about the truth comes out and all of Jehovah’s Witnesses finally learn the real truth and walk away and desert the Governing Body, at least they can walk away with dignity and freedom at last. If that ever happened, if I were the Governing Body though, I’d get out of Dodge if I had a brain in my head. Maybe that is when they decide that they have finally had their final “sealing” from Jehovah and they all commit suicide and try and convince the rank and file that they died of natural causes or that Jehovah “took” them.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 18, 2015 at 5:22 pm
@anonymous
…What is the saddest thing is to realize that at the age of 68, I have pissed away the last 50 years of my life to this organization. …
Can I ask you a question, and I hope this is not an insensitive one- My wife and I were discussing the idea of attempting to “wake up” some other members of our family. So far our opinion at this point is that at our parents age, we would be afraid for them to “wake up.” We don’t want them to be burdened by the sadness that would come with realizing the same as you have above. We’re worried it would be too devastating. Has it been worth it for you? If you had to do it all over again at the age of 68, would you want to know what you know now? Or would you rather stay content drinking the kool-aid?
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anonymous says:
May 18, 2015 at 6:08 pm
Finn, It is so much better to know the real truth, no matter how long you were deceived. Being deceived and waking up after 50 years is better than being deceived 50 years and one day. I can take it and am glad that I am still alive to at least have some time left but it leaves me very bitter and angry that I didn’t “see” it a long time ago.
I am the only one from my mother and father and brothers and aunts and uncles from my father’s side who became a Witness so it’s easier for me than my husband who is 70 and his mother and brother and grandmother and aunts and uncles and cousins and friends were all Witnesses.
Out of our three children, two are still very much involved and believing and so if my husband were to “wake” up, he’d have to admit that he was wrong as well as all his family and to tell the two of our kids who are still very strong, would be almost impossible for him to do. I have tried talking to the two who are strong in the “truth” but they refuse to listen to me but if my husband were able to realize he has been wrong all his life and admitted to them that he was wrong and I was right and he would talk to them, they would listen to him. Our youngest daughter has “woken” up from it and she isn’t disfellowshipped but she sees it for what it is now and that is the greatest feeling in the world to me. If the other two would see it for what it is, that would also be so great for me but hopefully something will happen and they will see that what I have tried to tell them is right after all before they have to get old like I did before I finally “woke” up.
I think you have to play it by how well you know your parents and old ones. If they are very frail and really really love the “truth”, let them be.
My husband complains a lot about the different Witnesses and he complains about the elders so at least I have something to work with. But if your relatives never complain about anything, then I think you have absolutely nothing to work with and you won’t accomplish anything.
We had two women in my congregation who have died in the last year who were life long believers with their whole heart and that is so sad to me. But this has been happening since the early 1900’s so I feel not alone in this horrible situation. It is like living in the worst nightmare a person can experience, this knowing the truth and not being able to tell others about it because you will either destroy them or wake them up and the result will be the pain of realizing you have wasted your whole life on nothing at all when if it had been different, you would been able to make decisions based on common sense and reason and not on what the Society “dictated” to you that you were to do.
I remember way back when I was in my late teens when I became associated and just suggesting that I’d like to go to college, I was treated like some kind of monster for even bringing it up. If I could go back and relieve my life, I could but I can’t. All I can say, is that at least I found out when I am at least still alive and haven’t died in this stupid religion like millions have done up until now. My husband chooses to keep his had in the sand. That is his choice. If he wants to live in that “prison”, then it’s his choice. I am at least glad I am out of that prison and I finally feel free for the first time in the last 50 years.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 19, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the advice and wish you and your family the best.
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Innocent Son says:
May 18, 2015 at 1:41 pm
To all the apologists out there….Perhaps Governing Body could get rid of their Rolex watches, pinky rings and designer suits to raise some capital….Think on that!
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danman says:
May 18, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Money is the oil that primes the pumps of so-called ‘theocratic’ activities. They are constantly inventing new ways to siphon off donated dollars into ‘Jah’ approved projects.
Rutherford’s blatant in your face use of Watchtower funds to purchase Cadillac’s, first class world travel, fine silk shirts, mansions in San Diego, Farm on Staten Island, Radio station WBBR, were just precursors to how his neophyte young followers like Knorr, Franz and company would spend the donated dollars after he was gone.
Knorr started Gilead School. He purchased the finest printing equipment available, he purchased farms in up-state New York. He began running the organization like a huge corporate entity. City overseers were appointed, circuit, district, branch, top heavy management were vying for more and more assignments (equivalent to raises, recognition in the real world). Attaining one of these positions in his day, allowed these men to sit behind desks, with secretaries, phones, and final say on operations all over the world. A heady ride for those men who’s only claim to fame may have been experience as local janitors or tradesmen. They had mafia like power over other men reporting to their offices. Rubbing noses with these guys, made you feel above the average publisher. You were in the true inner circle of things. It felt really good.
Money or the personal acquisition of such was and is the least of concern to these few men attaining such prominence in the organization. They live and breath the heady air of power and get the added euphoria of thinking that Jehovah God himself has chosen them from among all men to do the job. What else does a guy need? Well maybe a pinky ring, gold watch, or even an Armani suit might sweeten the pot even more. But as to wholesale personal self aggrandizing seizure of funds, they really could care less.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 18, 2015 at 5:24 pm
Agreed.
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Searcher says:
May 19, 2015 at 8:30 am
Agreed danman. Always remember that MONEY = POWER. In this case, the GB are running out of money to power their lifestyle. GREED in it’s best form.
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Fabulous says:
May 18, 2015 at 7:20 pm
Over 440 comments on this article! Interesting!!!!!!!!!
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Wild Olive says:
May 19, 2015 at 12:56 am
@charles Constante , I don’t recall Jackson going to WA it is possible though
On the only figure represented in Letts broadcast was the need for 14000 more halls IN ADDITION to what they have now, averaging 80 publishers per cong that comes out to 1 120 000 that don’t have a hall, yet last year there where only 1200 congs formed?
Where are over one million meeting without a hall? Ime sure its not in any western country, if it was China then I imagine the GB would be frantically getting us all to learn mandarin.
Just doesn’t add up
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anonymous says:
May 19, 2015 at 3:16 am
@Wild Olive, it doesn’t add up to me either. I listened to that talk again yesterday and I caught stuff I didn’t catch the first time around. Lett said that even in very poor areas, the brothers and sisters contribute towards their Kingdom Halls. I have a feeling that those people build Kingdom Halls to sit in even if they don’t have much money.
At about 1 hour and 20 minutes into Lett’s talk, a brother talks about visiting poor countries in Africa and he talks about a village in Madagascar and a pastor who liked the Watchtower magazine and would go to the meetings 20 miles away and talked his congregation to going to the meetings at the Kingdom Hall there and the pastor died but he left his home for those people to meet in his home after he died. Then the Society sent 2 special pioneers to that town 2 months ago and started studying with all the 78 people who were supposedly meeting in Left’s old house.
The brother in the jwbroadcasting talk was saying that some of those 78 people went from being drunkards and smokers and tradition followers just from reading the Watchtower magazine to being good people even before the special pioneers came 2 months ago and now they were eager for their studies with the pioneers.
What is interesting is the picture the Society shows during this whole talk from jwbroadcasting. The picture is of a bunch of kids from that village. If you look at that picture, not even one of those kids looks happy to be in that picture. If you listen carefully, the brothers just says that this is a picture of the kids from the village. He doesn’t say that it’s a picture of the kids attending meetings in Lefty’s house but that is the impression that the Society is wanting the viewers to think it is.
It isn’t the kids attending the meetings at all. That is a very deceitful picture and it had to be deliberate. You can tell that those kids don’t even want to be in that picture just by the expressions on their faces and how they have their arms crossed. The Society can’t even tell the truth when it comes to a picture they want the rank and file to believe. They want the rank and file to believe that their contributions are going to build Kingdom Halls to replace Lefty’s house but not a word is said about building a Kingdom Hall to replace Lefty’s house. That whole story is deceitful to get the watcher to think that those kids and their families are meeting in that small house behind them and that the Society is building them a new Kingdom Hall.
Lett said in his talk that the people in those areas don’t have an “appropriate” Kingdom Hall because they are too poor. What does he mean by “appropriate”? Does that mean that an “appropriate” Kingdom Hall is supposed to look the part? Maybe a simple house to meet in is okay with them. That brother even said that they met in schools for their meetings and evidently that was okay with them because not a word was said about a new Kingdom Hall for them.
If the Society has millions and millions for new Bethel digs in New York, why not give up a new swimming pool or a tennis court at Warwick for a new Kingdom Hall to replace Lefty’s house if that was a priority for them? No, the priority is their new digs at Warwick, not the poor brothers and sisters in Africa. That is their definition of the “world wide work” and that is where the donations are going not to poor African brothers and sisters.
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Cedars says:
May 19, 2015 at 5:16 am
Thanks to everyone for the huge response to this article! I do appreciate all the comments and observations.
Many of you might be interested to know that I’ve just uploaded my video rebuttal to Stephen Lett’s “historic” May episode on my YouTube channel. I’ve embedded the video at the foot of the article if you would like to watch it – but be warned I struggled to keep it within 2 hours!
I’ve also updated the JW Broadcasting page of JWsurvey, which now features all of the JW Broadcasting episodes with the corresponding rebuttals. Thanks!
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Simon Kestral says:
May 19, 2015 at 8:17 am
@Finn, as anonymous said, if your relatives are satisfied with their life in the org, you don’t have much to work with.
When people ask why I left, I simply say the WT is not “the truth,” it’s not God’s channel of communication. You can’t build a house of truth on a foundation of lies.
But if people can’t see that for themselves, there’s not much you can do about it.
The WT is an idol, like Aaron’s golden calf. That’s what some people want. To them, facts are irrelevant.
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Honza says:
May 19, 2015 at 2:33 pm
Hi all,
very good website!!! Thank´s!!!
On the east Slovak in the last one year sold around (30km), my parents have four Kingdom halls. Built from donations, loans at JW repaid, the money from the sale took the JW organization. Absolutely paradoxical reason: too many people in a small room! Now they go to the far larger halls. Very kindly measures !!!
Sorry for my English! I am from Czech Republic.
Honza
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Innocent Son says:
May 19, 2015 at 2:39 pm
The Governing Body really are bathing in their own glory….It would be really difficult for them now to……Admit they were wrong on so many things and to give up their glamorous lifestyles.The rank and file JW’S really do worship them and look forward to them sitting in their exalted positions in their so called Paradise.
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Grace says:
May 19, 2015 at 3:03 pm
Here in Australia, a lot of bro’s & Sis’s don’t have superannuation & the government is increasing the retirement age for the pension so they have to keep working with nothing to fall back on. The GB members don’t need to worry about that because they’re set up for retirement while the money keeps pouring in.
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danman says:
May 19, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Cedars,
Enjoyed your Lett rebuttal…pretty much nailed every facet of this cheap display of ‘money grabbing’ tv evangelists on air plea for more mullah.
I think clean shaven is the right look!
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Pickled brain says:
May 19, 2015 at 7:41 pm
@Cedars .. BRILLIANT Broadcasting8 video Rebuttal to Stephen LETTS begging for money. Lloyd I noticed you had over 84 thousand view your first rebuttal of The First GB Broadcast over 7 months ago which was also done by Stephen LETTS. I hope more JWs who are having increasing doubts about the Organisation as Each time a member of the Governing Body OPEN THEIR STUPID MOUTHS it MUST make the Rank & File JW feel Uneasy at how more & more the Organisation is Looking like Any other NUTTY RELIGION that Comes out of the ‘GOOD OLD USA’????? Your Clip at the end of All the WEIRDO CULTS that BEG for MONEY Show me that their are an AMAZING NUMBER of GULLIBLE & STUPID People Live in USA to Believe these Begging Ministers of these HUNDREDS of CULTS . I MEAN How can anyone believe this shouting for ‘Give me a 1000 Dollars each to buy my Plane’!!! IS AMERICA FULL of CRAZY PEOPLE????
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Pickled brain says:
May 19, 2015 at 7:51 pm
@ Cedars(Lloyd) . I think your YOUTUBE channel is helping a LOT of JWs wake up which is good, But DARE I SAY this???.. Oh , Why Not…That I think this Website is for the MORE INTELLECTUAL Person who Comments here & has more IN DEPTH ANALYSIS of the Organisation… Hmmm … This point could prove controversial but What the Heck!!!
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Meredith J says:
May 19, 2015 at 10:04 pm
When my congregation from 25 years ago saved and borrowed and worked so hard to build our kingdom hall, I remember in the back of my brain thinking, that means it belongs to us. To my surprise, a few months a later it was ‘dedicated’ to Jehovah. Little did I realise that from that day forward it would become the property of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to do with it as they pleased. Now, it all makes sense. They are an organisation amassing incredible wealth from their poor hardworking and blind people. Wake up people before they rob you of everything you’ve got with their brain washing and lies. And I was probably one of their most fervent souls. That doesn’t count for anything if you are being fooled. I left 12 years ago but I still feel a responsibility to wake these ones up to get out too.
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Pickled brain says:
May 19, 2015 at 11:10 pm
@Meredith J. I really liked your comment when you said ‘ I was one of their most fervent souls & you want to WAKE OTHERS UP’ . I think most of us who comment here want to do the same !!
What I found particularly DISTASTEFUL was the USE of CHILDREN in Putting Money in the Contribution boxes. So trying to INDOCTRINATE at an early age & then the young girl or teenager with the CREDIT CARD hitting the DONATE button on the JW Website!! This is Getting to be SO BLATANT & DISGUSTING when many JWs are struggling to pay their mortgage or rent because they DIDNT get a good Education & when you look at the LUXURIOUS BUILDINGs at WARWICK,PATTERSON & WALKILL it MAKES you SICK !!!!
I downsized to live in a Flat ,Why can’t the GB make their LIFE SIMPLE like Jesus & Paul!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 12:31 am
@ Cedars . Like you I found the Manipulation of Prayer to God Disgusting as if Jehovah woke this Biker& Drug taking Partygoer up so he could attend a Convention like in the last GB broadcast the Engineer who Prayed to Jehovah about finding a LEAK!!! Oh PLEASE GIVE ME STRENGTH!!! So Jehovah is ALLOWING JWs to Die in Disasters around the World & 1500 out of 4500 DIED of TORTURE & STARVATION in Nazi Germany who I am sure prayed for help & Jehovah DOES Nothing to Stop JW Children Dying from CANCERS & Maybe Life Saving Blood Transfusions,BUT he is HELPING An ENGINEER FIND a LEAK!!!!!
THIS Is UTTER DRIVEL & INSANITY!!!
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Exhausted says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:36 am
I eagerly watched your rebuttal video Lloyd. It is ironic
That a very popular televangelist from our town , was airing loads from Africa who were very receptive to their
Message. Dear people in Africa do not think I am in any way saying anything about you in a negative thought, but
Really just pointing out how these religionists promote propaganda. For all I know they could have been handing
Out chicken wings and recorded all the interest. Napkins
anyone???
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Exhausted says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:41 am
also to Anonymous…
Sounds like we come from the same ilk. I am just a couple years younger than you, but definitely the same
Genre. I agree with you on most everything. Keep your
Posts up.
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anonymous says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:58 am
A while back, somebody was commenting here that in poor areas of the world, that those people have access to computers, almost as much as people in areas where people have a lot more money. Lloyd said that the biggest growth was in poor areas where they don’t have access to computers like we do.
If people are poor, they can’t with a click of the mouse, find out about all the lies from the Society. All it takes is 5 minutes on the computer to find out the real truth about the truth if you are connected to the internet.
In that latest broadcast, that one brother was talking about their travels in Africa and at one point, he said that those people are so generous that they will donate money to the Society when they don’t even know how they will survive the next day. He said that is where their is so much growth.
At the beginning of the talk, Lett was using what the apostle Paul was saying that the one with a lot wasn’t to have too much and the one who had little should not have too little and that is why the Society decided to tell the brothers and sisters that is why they “cancelled” the mortgage payments but then he went on to say that even people in poor areas contribute for their Kingdom Halls and for the upkeep of those Kingdom Halls. So, if you listen to his talk, if those people in those poor countries are contributing towards their halls, then why does he keep saying that the reason people in richer areas should contribute to help out those in poor areas is to pay for the Kingdom Halls in poor areas? It is to make the rank and file think that their contributions are going to those people in poor countries like Africa but as he said in his talk that even those poor people are contributing towards the building of their Kingdom Halls. So, are those people contributing towards their halls or not? We all know it doesn’t cost 5 million dollars to build a Kingdom Hall in Africa like it does in New York City.
I believe the bulk of the money is for supporting all the Bethelites and all their real estate holdings and not to the building of Kingdom Halls in Africa or South America.
When they show all the areal views of the branch offices, regional translating buildings, the new Bethels, Warwick, Brooklyn, Walkil, Fishkil, Chelmsford and on and on, it staggers my mind how much pressure the Society puts on all the Witnesses to support all of that in the guise that it’s all to preach to the ends of the earth so that God can bring Armageddon and those Witnesses will have a clean conscience that they did all they could so that those people’s deaths won’t be on their conscience. That is the guilt trip the Society is laying on all the faithful Witnesses who believe every word in the Watchtower and coming out of the Governing Body’s mouths.
At least with all those tv evangelists that Lloyd showed at the end of his video, who are always begging for money even one thousand dollars, the only thing those people are asked to buy are their new planes and tv time and fancy life styles of those people in those tv shows. The Witnesses are asked to support tens of thousands of Bethelites and their homes and the building of more and more buildings to house those people and farms to raise their food and people to clean their rooms and print their literature, fix their automobiles, buy all their insurances, their clothes, their planes, their lawyers, their car repairs, their dentists, their doctors, their trucks, the construction equipment all over the world, their new tv studios and luxury apartment complexes and on and on. It is mind blowing all the pressure that is put on the rank and file to support all those people and their buildings and new construction work and all in the backs of poor people who were not allowed to better themselves with a decent education.
All Lett has to do is put out the call for more money and if each of those 8 million JW’s gave just $10 more in the next year than they did the year before, that is $80 million more dollars in their coffers and to most people $10 more in the next year is less than a meal at McDonalds. The Society knows full well, that with 8 million loyal Witnesses who “believe” all their bulls***t, that they will be swimming in money once again.
If you are new to this site and you are studying with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, whatever you do, don’t get baptized without doing some research. Once you get baptized, you have signed your life away to the devil.
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Exhausted says:
May 20, 2015 at 3:10 am
Oh yes, one more thought….The use of children is so
Manipulative. My grandson recently made a commercial
For a product and it took lots of retakes to get it right
So how does that work with the jw.org. Thing.
Did Lett get his begging correct on the first take????
I doubt it from what I hear. Plus… The big plus you cannot take retakes in public talks. Is it just me????
this is why I. Am EXHAUSTED…
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Exhausted says:
May 20, 2015 at 3:27 am
With my limited education, … I still managed with my
Husband to enjoy a hard earned successful business
In the supply/service trade. However, from the time I
Was young, opportunities were there for me that we’re denied to me because of the end being just on the horizon. Do I feel anger???? Yes. Do I want to give
my money to Lett???? Hecks no because I gave in spades.
And I mean NO. I will give to the charities I choose to.
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Neal Krouni says:
May 20, 2015 at 5:36 am
As a naive youngster, I was brainwashed by “JW.BORG”‘s fairy tales. As I grew older, I stupidly continued to believe or half-believe the lies. This, of course, made me lackadaisical in preparing for my own future, which made things more difficult down the line.
That is why I do not miss my former associates and “friends” in the WT “Borg”. I’m 100% glad to be OUT. It opened up so many opportunities. I never pine for the “old days”. It reminds me of a line from a song, I believe the title is Midnight Blue: “I forgave you, Couldn’t save you, Drove you from my mind…”
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 7:45 am
@Anonymous . You make a LOT of Valid points in your last comment ! If every JW Thought like you & Analysed like you there would be No-one Left in the Organisation!! The Trouble is many Either Don’t Think & Leave their Brain at the Kingdom Hall Doors or JWs ARE SCARED Big Time of LOSING FAMILY & FRIENDS which I suspect is the case!
That is Why the GB ARE EVIL when they Recommend SHUNNING FAMILY!!
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David says:
May 20, 2015 at 8:42 am
So God’s anointed channel of truth is saying that the sale of the New York properties is just covering the construction of the new bethel. Can you believe that? How such liars can call themselves Christians? As long as ignorance exist these charlatans will continue to exploit people in the name of fantasies.
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M Saurus says:
May 20, 2015 at 9:43 am
Pickled Brain – I didn’t know you were hiding here! You are so vehemently against all things JW – why do you keep up the pretense? Not being mean, just asking. My immediate family and I “faded away” about 3 years ago – at the huge price of semi-shunning from pretty much all our “friends” and most of our family. But it was worth it, and it gives everyone something to think about, since we’ve been “in the truth” since our childhood.
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Simon Kestral says:
May 20, 2015 at 10:39 am
@Saurus, it’s hard to break away when your spouse wants to stay. When you reveal an apostate label, many a JW spouse will cut you off emotionally. Their loyalty is to WT first. So unless the “apostate” is prepared for divorce, keeping it secret may be the best choice.
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 10:55 am
THANK YOU SIMON KESTREL!! You understand the Dilemma Completely.I am trying to SAVE MY MARRIAGE & Family by Subtle Means . If I was Single I would Confront the Elders& secretly tape it & put it on the Internet!!
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Ted says:
May 20, 2015 at 11:25 am
“God works in Mysterious ways” some say, and it’s a useful
statement to deflect unanswerable questions. However there
is a glaring inconsistency in the way God is dealing with his
“Present day people” compared with those of the past
In the forty year wilderness trek, they had miraculous manna
for breakfast and dined on quail in the evening, shoes never wore
out, and no shortage of water, a couple of taps on a rock with
Moses staff and water came gushing out. All evidence that God
is with us, said Moses.
Moving on to the Christian Era, more miraculous evidence,
identifying those whom God was backing. Five loaves and
two fishes morphed into enough food to feed 5,000 people.
( I wonder why the disciples were reduced to eating ears of corn
when they were hungry. )? God even supplied money to pay
Caesars tax, all Peter had to do was catch a fish and there in the
fish’s mouth was the exact amount. etc, etc.
But now in this “Time of the. End” when God’s plan for mankind
is supposed to be reaching its grand climax. There’s a notable
absence of any definite evidence to identify his people, you just
have to accept unsubstantiated verbal claims.
The WTS, has turned the system on its head. Instead of God
providing for the people, God now needs the help of the people
just to fulfil his plans for next year, So why is God so shy now?
after manifesting himself so overtly in the past?
“God moves in mysterious ways” comes in handy here.
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Ted says:
May 20, 2015 at 12:21 pm
@Pickled Brain, Don’t lose hope of your wife seeing through
the “Untruth”. My wife kept going for nearly a year after I left,
eventually she reached the same conclusions as me.
One of the elders gave her the “Pernicious” advice, to leave me
saying I would shipwreck her faith, but she reminded him that
she had taken marriage vows. We’re still together, this year will
be our 61st, anniversary
I enjoy your reports from the Watchtower Study and the inside
info, but hope things work out so you can make your exit.
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Ted says:
May 20, 2015 at 12:50 pm
Correction. To a previous post, money in fish’s mouth
was for temple tax not Caesars .
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:12 pm
@Ted . Thank you so much for your KIND & ENCOURAGING Comments. You understand what I am going through seeing someone you Love still being Manipulated by Mind Control of the GB!!
I am biding my time because she is an intelligent woman BUT it is hard if you have been bought up in the Truth for 50 years & to Admit it is ALL
A SHAM & A BIG CON so i am by her side being a Friend,Supportive but also Being Subtle like ‘isn’t it wonderful the Last Days are over 100 years long ,Armageddon must be really close otherwise it wouldn’t be called the Last Days?’ & other comments like ‘ wasn’t it amazing when Paul said at Acts 17v24 that GOD doesn’t Dwell in Handmade Temples so obviously the early Christians didn’t spend much money on their buildings as they met in houses!!
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Innocent Son says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Fantastic comments guys please keep it up. You know as an x J W it means so much to me that so many of you out there feel the same….Until I found this site I found it very hard to express how I felt, bottling it all up inside, feeling angry and isolated….No more!
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Innocent Son says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Hope your reading this Governing Body…
You will be held accountable when it all comes crashing down around you.Who will be your saviour and defender? Not this Jehovah God! He dosen’t know you!
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 3:03 pm
@M Saurus. Enjoyed your comment. & you were fortunate the family came with you at the same time which is helpful & supportive. I wish you well for the future& No it wasn’t mean to ask . That’s fine by me & what I feel refreshing about this website is WE CAN ASK any Questions,UNLIKE in the Organisation where if you ask certain Questions you will be viewed suspiciously & maybe shunned as Bad Association!!
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anonymous says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:06 am
If I am typical of how people feel when they watch those jwbroadcasting shows, I would have felt overwhelmed when they keep showing all the Bethels and all the branches and all the building work and all the future projects etc. and all the Bethelites that need to be supported.
For a typical person in a community that goes to a church, the thing those people have to worry about is paying the minister of that church his salary and the upkeep of the church. They might have fund raisings and car washes and bingo games etc. to raise money but they have fun doing it and their pancakes breakfasts etc. are fun for those people to support and they get something for their money but when it comes to supporting the world wide work and the Society keeps showing all those buildings and all those people that need to be supported by contributions, it seems overwhelming to me and I am wondering if others still in the Organization feel the same way when the Society keeps showing all that stuff that needs supporting and they keep begging for more and more money.
I think what the intent of the Society is when they keep showing all those projects and buildings and Bethelites that live off of the donations is to put into the rank and file’s minds that the Society has a huge outlay of money to fork out every day (you can tell by the videos and pictures of those places and Bethelites it has to be millions of dollars every day) and so that is why the cry for more money but if I was already having a hard time meeting my bills every month, it would encourage me to look for excuses to find out that it’s not the “truth” after all so that I could walk away from the stress of supporting all that stuff and Bethelites and keep that money in my pocket to make my life easier.
I would think the latest jwbroadcasting show has to be very stressful for those already strapped for money. I know I thought every month when I was still going to meetings, how much I’d love to keep that $80 a month and I secretly wished for it to be found out to be a fraud and to come crashing down so I could keep that money. I was thinking that for a long time.
I hated going to meetings and assemblies and I hated the agony of thinking of Armageddon and I hated the thought that if I didn’t go out in service more that Jehovah would kill me at Armageddon for not doing more.
Every time I came home from a meeting or service, I would be so depressed and it would take me days to get over the depression and then the very next meeting, the depression would start all over again. Every time they’d cancel a meeting for weather, I’d be so happy, not sad. Just the thought of going to meetings and service and assemblies made me depressed.
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Wanderer says:
May 21, 2015 at 1:29 pm
@anonymous thank you for that comment. I agree wholeheartedly with every point you made.
I remember as a child looking around at my school thinking how unfair it was that every person would die very soon except for maybe…maybe me, if I was good enough, if I had done enough field service etc.
What a horrible way to be brought up!
I was very good at sport and was targeted by school sport teachers & local sport scouts, but while playing school sport during school hours was ok with my parents, there was no way I would be able to join a sporting club. That is now a huge regret now I have faded & I am in my late 30’s.
I remember hating the monotonous meetings, field service, pre-study, the whatever you are doing now is not good enough, the constant “encouragement” you need to reach out and do more.
I wish there was a way of finding out the exact figures the Org. Have paid out in out of court settlements & law suits over the last few years, it would really be an eye opener for so many who are still in.
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anonymous says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:10 pm
@Wanderer, I feel bad that you didn’t find out when you were young the truth about the truth but you still have a lot of good years ahead of you. I am so happy for you that you didn’t have to be almost 70 like I am before having woken up. Be glad about that anyway. Over the years, I have known scores of people who have lived their whole lives waiting for Armageddon to come and are now dead. What a waste of human lives this Organization is!!
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Wanderer says:
May 22, 2015 at 3:26 am
@anonymous we can both be happy to be out of the Org, let’s celebrate that!
My Wife stopped a few moths after I did, and then we had our children. I am so glad that my kids will have every opportunity I can possibly give them to be whatever they want, and pursue any interest they want, be it sport, academic, art, dance etc. not a pigeon hole of pioneer/menial job.
I just wanted to say that although I really don’t post much, I read everything here and I really enjoy your posts. You just make so much sense to me.
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:56 pm
Thank you so much for saying that!!! You made my day!! I am so glad for you that your wife came out too and your kids don’t have to grow up in such a horrible religion.
M Saurus says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:21 am
Pickled- I understand. It’s hard. And our “family” are several states away so it’s not as hard for us. They will speak to us but it’s very awkward. Just remember to do what’s best for you and your sanity. They always used to speak of a “double life” – it’s hard to maintain and the stress is not good for you healthwise. Best to you!
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Jerry O Connor says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:42 am
Hello to all.
Nothing watchtower does surprises me. There appears to be no rock bottom for this sinister cult. All of us who were jws know what kind of pressure will be put on children in order to extort money. This talk of getting children baptized as young as nine is very troubling. Do not be surprised if watchtower starts baptizing babies. The ramifications of this are hideous. Reading “my book of bible stories” to the very young will lead to terror for the children. We know that jw parents will use thinly veiled threats to get the children in line. I believe that watchtower is devolving. Present trends indicate that many members who leave, do so because of the information available on the net. I have no figures to prove my theory of devolution.In time watchtower will be composed of the very young and the old. Jws aged between twenty five and forty five will become a very small percentage. This group are the most likely to go online and find the real truth about watchtower. Gone are the day`s of the small discreet box at the back of the hall for contributions. I would say that most contributors use electronic banking in line with watchtower`s leap into the age of technology. Jw children have it really bad as it is. Now they have to render service to Mammon as well as their genocidal jehovah. Watchtower I hate you for what you do to children.
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Pickled brain says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:51 am
@M Saurus . Thank you for your kind comment! Much Appreciated
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 2:37 am
There’s another misleading statement by Stephen Lett that Witnesses are overlooking when he was talking about when in 1990 when they stopped charging for the literature at the back literature counter. Even though the brothers handling the literature didn’t ask for money, it was understood that we were to put the same amount of money for that literature in the contribution box. I remember talks telling us that if we were to buy that literature in a store, how much would it cost and that is what we were told to put in the contribution box for that literature.
That literature cost the brothers and sisters the same amount to them as before the new arrangement but when they placed the literature with the householders, it was presented as “free” but at the end of the sales pitch, the Witness was supposed to say to the householder “if you would care to contribute towards the cost of the printing of the literature, I’d be happy to take it towards the printing of more literature.”
I think I might have done that one or two times and could never bring myself to do it again because if the literature is presented as “free”, then why was I supposed to then ask for a donation after the householder had said they’d take it? It never made any sense to me and I couldn’t do it but I was made to feel like I was going against God if I didn’t do that by anybody else that was with me at the door, especially by the pioneers but doing that made me feel low down and dirty.
I stopped going in service and meetings about a year ago and as I remember hardly anybody asked for a donation any more. They just give the literature away, willy-nilly and of course if the householder is taking the literature and throwing it in the trash as soon as the Witness walks away, what care to they have but on the other hand, the Witness who just gives it away like that, can count it on their monthly time slip and it looks good for them. That is misleading when it comes to just how important all those translating offices are needed and all those printing plants are needed when probably 99% of that literature is thrown in the trash as soon as the Witness walks away from the door.
The literature was never “free” though. It got paid for by the Witness by putting the money for that literature in the contribution box at the back of the hall. The only difference was that before they stopped charging for the literature at the back of the hall, the Society got paid two times for that literature, first when the Witness paid for it at the back of the hall and then when we asked for the money for that literature from the householder, we had to put that money that they gave us for the literature in the contribution box as well.
So they got paid twice for that literature and then in 1990 when the new arrangement went into effect, the Witnesses were supposed to ask for a donation but I think very few did, but they were supposed to ask for it anyway and they were expected to put that money in the contribution box as well but they still paid for the literature out of their own pockets.
Lett was very deceitful to the camera. Since 1990 was 25 years ago, most new Witnesses today wouldn’t know what was really going on in 1990, especially with the Jimmy Swaggart thing.
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Charles Costante says:
May 22, 2015 at 3:02 am
“I think I might have done that one or two times and could never bring myself to do it again because if the literature is presented as “free”, then why was I supposed to then ask for a donation after the householder had said they’d take it?”
Anonymous, I left before all of this, but I can’t imagine asking for a donation after giving someone the impression it was free. Most householders would feel obliged to give one, and probably a lot more than what we used to “place” them for before all this happened. It’s so calculated!
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Neal Krouni says:
May 22, 2015 at 10:52 am
@Pickled brain
You’re doing the right thing. Discretion is the better part of valor.
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Pickled brain says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:33 pm
@Neale Krouni. Sorry Neale just noticed your comment.Thank you for your encouragement. Much Appreciated!
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 6:05 pm
We all know how Rutherford had his two Cadillac cars during the depression and his mansion in California called Beth Sarim but this is what he wrote in the 1934 Yearbook where the Watchtower reprinted the Declaration of Facts to Hitler in 1933 on page 137:
“Instead of collecting money from the people and using the same to erect great buildings and to support men in luxury, we print the gospel message of God’s Kingdom and carry it to the homes of the people that they may at the least inconvenience to themselves, gain a knowledge of God’s purposes concerning them.”
When our ancestors got sucked into the Watchtower Organization, they were led to believe that their contributions were not going to go for fancy buildings and to support a wealthy clergy class. That is how our ancestors were led to believe the Watchtower Organization was all about. It was only to spread the gospel message to the people’s homes and were told that religion is a snare and a racket.
Most people in the Organization today are 3rd or even 4th generation Witnesses going back to the early 1900’s. Our ancestors thought that they were getting themselves into a religion that really cared about the people and weren’t out to suck money out of them. They thought that this religion was different than all the other religions that passed the plate or tithed them.
If you look around almost any Kingdom Hall, you will see families of families who make up the majority of the publishers. Those families go back at least 60 or 70 years. Those people passed on their religion to their kids who passed it along to their kids and along the way, it morphed into a religion that is no different than any other religion with it’s big buildings and clergy living in luxury and asking for more and more money.
If we were brought into this religion 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 years ago, this is not the same religion that we joined. When we joined this religion, we believed that God was directing it but God is not directing the Organization.
With knowledge comes wisdom. If our ancestors knew anything about the Bible, they couldn’t have been so easily fooled but that is how the Watchtower attracts new followers. They attract people who don’t know anything about the Bible and so are not wise about the Bible and easily manipulated by so-called scholars (the Witnesses).
Witnesses are like the frog that gets dropped into a bowl of cool water. If the water warms up real gradually, the frog won’t realize he’s being cooked. That is how the Society has gotten so many into believing it’s scholarly nonsense. If it happened all of a sudden, people would recognize it’s nonsense and get out but that’s not how we got sucked into the Watchtower cult. It started with our ancestors who joined what they thought was a humble religion and it’s taken over 100 years but it’s not a humble religion anymore.
It started out different than the other religions in not passing the plate and making people believe that the Society was not like other religions in saying that religion is a snare and a racket, but unfortunately, the Watchtower Society is a snare and a racket after all and the rank and file are the frogs being cooked to death by it.
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Wanderer says:
May 22, 2015 at 7:39 pm
When we were younger and saving for a deposit for our first house (small modest home in a very working class area) we were told by our group study conductor not to be materialistic and that buying a house was a waste of time because we were so close to “the end”.
Turns out we bought just before a property boom and paid it off quick! So glad I didn’t listen to a labourers financial advice ;-)
How can JW’s have that attitude but then watch this blatant money grabbing televangelist, agree with him and then give him more money?
How does a remote translating office cost a million dollars? Is that keeping your eye simple?
My extended family are all in and very strong, but they are intelligent people, how do these people not see through the deceit?
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Neal Krouni says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:29 am
Obviously not so intelligent. ;) Don’t be fooled.
P.S.: I learned a long time ago, If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck…
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:59 am
There is a new Youtuber called Spike r and his latest video is about Stephen Lett’s speech asking for more money and he has a very interesting take on it.
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Neal Krouni says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:12 am
Very interesting clip. Could the gb indeed be literally “rolling around” in cash like Scrooge McDuck? I think a more plausible theory (call it a Conspiracy Theory if you like) is that a portion of that money is being funneled to some other, possibly secret, sister or parent organization. Much like “protection money”, it may explain why wt is still afloat in spite of the child abuse scandal, and is openly permitted to operate using obviously cult-ish methodologies and techniques!
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Neal Krouni says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:17 am
And if you don’t believe the Government goes after cults, just think back to Waco!!!
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Otto Atlantis says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Hey Cedars or whatever your name is today. I finally figured out why people hate you. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a child molester yourself. Are you an undercover JW??? Keep contemplating suicide you toffee-nosed closet case!!!
Reply
Cedars says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:00 pm
Ladies and gentleman… a Cedars-hater. One of the more eloquent ones… ;)
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:09 pm
With some of the comments and all the f words that so many JW’s use when they comment on “apostate” web sites, this guy really is a more eloquent Cedars-hater. I almost think this guy went to college or something, he is so eloquent.
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Pickled brain says:
May 24, 2015 at 10:03 am
@ Anonymous. Do you think Our Dear LOVABLE OTTO went to not just college but maybe Elders School or Even Gilead to Learn such Kindness in wishing suicide on someone…. CHARMING!!!!
Reply
Innocent Son says:
May 24, 2015 at 4:01 pm
@ Otto Atlantis, I don’t know if you’re a J W apologist, or a perverted troll or both! But get back from under the rock you crawled from…You see the truth will come out about this so called Christian Organisation, where will you be then?
Reply
Pickled brain says:
May 24, 2015 at 6:08 pm
500 COMMENTS on Stephen LETTS begging for money from Children ??? OBSCENE!!!!
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Innocent Son says:
May 25, 2015 at 1:34 pm
Hmm, I wonder what’s next, probably telling the Faithfull J dubs that Satan is behind the Orgs’ money troubles and that this is signalling the ‘ Time of the End ‘ and for them all to rally round the G.B.
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Pickled brain says:
May 25, 2015 at 2:28 pm
@Stephen LETTS . I think I should be appointed FINANCIAL ADVISER to the GB .., my advice to make up the shortfall in funds for Kingdom Hall builds,RTOs ,etc
1)Manufacture SOPHIA & CALEB Soft Toys & ask ALL Under 12 year JWs to get their parents to buy them at $24.99 for the pair
2)Get rid of some of the printing presses & Get in Sophia & CALEB Producing Machines.!!
3) have a SPECIAL CAMPAIGN 3 times a year to Give These toys to the public & invite Contributions instead of Memorial,Convention & other Campaigns!!
I wonder if I would get to be the 8th member of the Governing Body as I Had a VISION LAST NIGHT of SOPHIA& CALEB under the Influence of ‘THE HOLY Johnnie Walker SPIRIT ‘. …
I am sure I Can do BETTER GESTURES than Stephen LETTS!! I did get a ‘GOOD ‘in the Theocratic Ministry School !!
There is ONE PARTICULAR GESTURE I am GOOD AT …., it INVOLVES…., TWO FINGERS???? It comes Naturally, Especially when 7 Rich American Men come Begging for Donations!!!
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http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/stephen-lett-admits-incomeexpenditure-shortfall-as-he-reminds-witnesses-to-donate-valuable-things#comments
Stephen Lett admits income/expenditure shortfall as he reminds Witnesses to donate “valuable things”
avatar
Posted on May 5, 2015
The May episode of JW Broadcasting features Stephen Lett asking JWs to cover a shortfall in funds
The May episode of JW Broadcasting features Stephen Lett asking JWs to cover a shortfall in funds
The May 2015 episode of JW Broadcasting was billed by its host, Governing Body member Stephen Lett, as being a “historic” one. It ended up being just that, but for none of the reasons given.
Lett opened the program by drawing attention to the fact that all seven Governing Body members have now hosted JW Broadcasting (tv.jw.org), and hailed the fact that approval has now been given to end the project’s trial period and roll it out on a permanent basis in multiple languages.
If this amounts to a “historic” development, then either Lett is shaky on what “historic” means, or anything new that happens anywhere to anyone can have the same superlative applied.
What WAS historic about the program was that it featured, for the first time, a Governing Body member admitting to the organization being in a financially precarious situation, with Lett revealing a shortfall between projected income and expenditure for the forthcoming fiscal period.
This website has long pointed to a number of omens that not all is well for Watchtower financially – chief among these being the slashing of branch offices and a whopping 39% reduction in monthly magazine printing. But this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that the organization has come clean about being in financial difficulties – albeit with a notable lack of transparency about the actual figures involved.
Unsurprisingly, Lett used the opportunity to urge Witnesses to donate, and rather comically set about doing this by trying to distance the organization from others who “coerce” their followers to give money…
The above video is my own montage of Lett’s pleas for donations. To watch the full, 1-hour 36-minute unedited program, please click here.
From lack of transparency to blatant deception
As with the previous seven JW Broadcasting episodes, I will be making a full YouTube rebuttal to Lett’s performance in the next week or so. But I wanted to take this opportunity to point out the complete lack of transparency regarding funds in this episode, and highlight at least two areas in which Lett has been blatantly deceitful.
If you are going to divulge a shortfall in funds, particularly with the aim of leveraging more donations (or “valuable things”) from a pool of supporters who are already lagging in this regard, the least you can do is treat them like adults and give some hard numbers. Nowhere in Lett’s rather patronizing, condescending comments is a single figure cited regarding the projected amounts of income and expenditure, and the shortfall between the two. Everything is left to the imagination (or, more accurately, gullibility) of the viewer.
Then you have the flat-out lies regarding the new donation arrangement for kingdom hall construction, and the amount of money involved in the move to Warwick.
When Lett first mentioned feedback from Circuit Overseers regarding the new donation arrangement, the first thought that whizzed through my head was: “Thank goodness! The publishers have seen straight through the stealth-tithing scam and have been giving Circuit Overseers a piece of their mind.”
But according to Lett, rather than there being any dissatisfaction with the new arrangement, the cause of concern for Circuit Overseers is merely that there is a misconception among publishers that Watchtower is flush with money because it has “cancelled” the loans and mortgages of congregations who owe the organization for new kingdom halls.
Cue facepalm, and heavy sigh of despair…
As already reported by this website, a full unabridged reading of the letters to elders dated March 29 and May 12, 2014 reveals that Watchtower has not stopped congregations from sending in money under the new arrangement. Rather, it has insisted that at least the same amount of money be sent through each month for congregations who were already paying off debts, and that congregations without debts should start sending in money each month as though they were in debt!
Extract from the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter to elders, NOT to be read out to ordinary publishers
Extract from the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter to elders, NOT to be read out to ordinary publishers
And ALL congregations, whether previously indebted or not, have been ordered to send in any surplus of funds, leaving only $5,000 plus three months’ worth of operating costs in the local coffers. So rather than saving money for congregations, Watchtower is demanding more from them as a result of the recent changes.
Part of the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter insisting that surplus congregations funds should be sent to Watchtower
Part of the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter insisting that surplus congregations funds should be sent to Watchtower
Extract from the May 12 letter to elders, clarifying the amount of funds that can be held on congregation accounts without being sent to Watchtower
Extract from the May 12 letter to elders, clarifying the amount of funds that can be held on congregation accounts without being sent to Watchtower
And keep in mind that if Watchtower ever goes bust (an increasingly likely scenario) the kingdom halls will go straight down in flames with it under this new arrangement (being no longer financially independent), and none of the money invested in kingdom hall construction by local brothers will find its way back into their pockets.
In the twisted world of Watchtower, a Witness should pay for his or her local kingdom hall as though it is their responsibility, even though the kingdom hall is an asset ultimately belonging to Watchtower and Watchtower can (and will) get all the proceeds from selling it.
But you wouldn’t suspect any of this dreadful scam from Lett, who draws comparisons between the ‘generosity’ of Watchtower’s new stealth-tithing arrangement and the dropping of charges for literature in 1990 – a move which, by the way, arose only because Watchtower’s non-profit status was under threat.
This all represents a blatant deception on Lett’s part, relying entirely on the majority of viewers being blissfully ignorant of the letters to elders that were circulated last year, and the full scope of the new donation/tithing arrangement.
But if this weren’t enough, we then have what I think is the most bald-faced lie I have ever seen a Governing Body member utter into a camera…
The first thing to remember is that Watchtower has operated quite successfully for many years before the move to Warwick was proposed, so any attempt to fob the viewer off with some half-baked story that the proceeds of one unnamed “significant” Brooklyn property would offset only a few weeks of normal operating costs can be immediately dismissed.
Even if Watchtower were to sell one of its Brooklyn properties for only one dollar, that is a still a dollar they wouldn’t have had available to them in any of the years prior to the Warwick move being discussed – years when Watchtower had up to 116 branch offices in operation (in 2010) compared to only 90 today.
This leaves us with the breathtaking subterfuge of Lett’s suggestion that the sale of the Brooklyn property portfolio “is basically only financing the construction of World Headquarters in Warwick and the purchase of other properties that are needed to facilitate the move from Brooklyn in the future.”
Like many cults, Watchtower is less than open when it comes to divulging how much money it spends on various projects to those it holds responsible for picking up the tab. This means that information on what Watchtower is spending on the Warwick move is hard to come by at best, but there are two figures that give some indication of the amounts of cash involved.
Four separate neutral sources, namely The Brooklyn Paper, The Observer, The Real Deal and the New York Post all cite an estimated figure of $11.5 million for the building costs of the new Warwick headquarters. I am presently trying to verify the source of this estimate, but considering the complex is being built with mostly volunteer labor, such a low figure isn’t completely out of the question.
It has also been reported elsewhere that the Tuxedo complex, perhaps the most well-known facility for supporting the work at Warwick, cost Watchtower a mere $3.2 million.
Obviously there are a lot of other numbers we are missing for other properties and planning/development expenses (due entirely to Watchtower’s lack of transparency rather than any attempts to mislead or deceive on the part of anyone else), but even if we multiply the above two figures by 10 for the sake of argument, we are left with less than $150 million.
Contrast that with the 1 Billion Watchtower is making for the entire Brooklyn portfolio, with an eye-watering $375 million coming through for one transaction alone, and the depth of Lett’s deception should quickly become apparent.
The move from Brooklyn to Warwick IS an enormous money-spinner for the organization, commonly known as a property “flip,” and in no way can it be thought of as a like-for-like switch according to Lett’s blatant, bald-faced misrepresentation.
Nobody else to blame
If Watchtower is low on funds, which I am thrilled to hear confirmation of straight from the horse’s mouth (in more than one sense), it is NOT the fault of any misunderstanding on the part of ordinary Witnesses. If anything, most Witnesses woefully underestimate the breathtaking amount of money Watchtower has pocketed from selling off Brooklyn, thanks in no small measure to the Governing Body’s total, deliberate and ongoing financial information black-out.
There is only one direction in which the finger of blame should be pointed respecting the Governing Body’s monetary woes, and that is towards them. If the Governing Body is spending more money than they are receiving from the kindness and generosity of Witnesses, who are already hard-pressed as a result of the insane and immoral prohibition on higher education, then by no stretch of the imagination can they be thought of as either faithful or discreet.
Let’s just hope that, for many Witnesses watching this most recent parade of self-congratulation, exaggeration, lies and bluster, with Stephen Lett as the latest floundering, pompous ringmaster to hog the limelight in this grotesque JW Broadcasting circus sham, the penny has finally dropped.
new-cedars-signature2
Further reading…
◾Rawstory article
◾Friendly Atheist blog coverage of this article
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick move
◾JWsurvey articles on Brooklyn sell-off
◾JWsurvey articles on Watchtower’s downsizing
◾JW Broadcasting video rebuttals
Related video…
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502 Responses to Stephen Lett admits income/expenditure shortfall as he reminds Witnesses to donate “valuable things”
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anonymous says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:58 am
A while back, somebody was commenting here that in poor areas of the world, that those people have access to computers, almost as much as people in areas where people have a lot more money. Lloyd said that the biggest growth was in poor areas where they don’t have access to computers like we do.
If people are poor, they can’t with a click of the mouse, find out about all the lies from the Society. All it takes is 5 minutes on the computer to find out the real truth about the truth if you are connected to the internet.
In that latest broadcast, that one brother was talking about their travels in Africa and at one point, he said that those people are so generous that they will donate money to the Society when they don’t even know how they will survive the next day. He said that is where their is so much growth.
At the beginning of the talk, Lett was using what the apostle Paul was saying that the one with a lot wasn’t to have too much and the one who had little should not have too little and that is why the Society decided to tell the brothers and sisters that is why they “cancelled” the mortgage payments but then he went on to say that even people in poor areas contribute for their Kingdom Halls and for the upkeep of those Kingdom Halls. So, if you listen to his talk, if those people in those poor countries are contributing towards their halls, then why does he keep saying that the reason people in richer areas should contribute to help out those in poor areas is to pay for the Kingdom Halls in poor areas? It is to make the rank and file think that their contributions are going to those people in poor countries like Africa but as he said in his talk that even those poor people are contributing towards the building of their Kingdom Halls. So, are those people contributing towards their halls or not? We all know it doesn’t cost 5 million dollars to build a Kingdom Hall in Africa like it does in New York City.
I believe the bulk of the money is for supporting all the Bethelites and all their real estate holdings and not to the building of Kingdom Halls in Africa or South America.
When they show all the areal views of the branch offices, regional translating buildings, the new Bethels, Warwick, Brooklyn, Walkil, Fishkil, Chelmsford and on and on, it staggers my mind how much pressure the Society puts on all the Witnesses to support all of that in the guise that it’s all to preach to the ends of the earth so that God can bring Armageddon and those Witnesses will have a clean conscience that they did all they could so that those people’s deaths won’t be on their conscience. That is the guilt trip the Society is laying on all the faithful Witnesses who believe every word in the Watchtower and coming out of the Governing Body’s mouths.
At least with all those tv evangelists that Lloyd showed at the end of his video, who are always begging for money even one thousand dollars, the only thing those people are asked to buy are their new planes and tv time and fancy life styles of those people in those tv shows. The Witnesses are asked to support tens of thousands of Bethelites and their homes and the building of more and more buildings to house those people and farms to raise their food and people to clean their rooms and print their literature, fix their automobiles, buy all their insurances, their clothes, their planes, their lawyers, their car repairs, their dentists, their doctors, their trucks, the construction equipment all over the world, their new tv studios and luxury apartment complexes and on and on. It is mind blowing all the pressure that is put on the rank and file to support all those people and their buildings and new construction work and all in the backs of poor people who were not allowed to better themselves with a decent education.
All Lett has to do is put out the call for more money and if each of those 8 million JW’s gave just $10 more in the next year than they did the year before, that is $80 million more dollars in their coffers and to most people $10 more in the next year is less than a meal at McDonalds. The Society knows full well, that with 8 million loyal Witnesses who “believe” all their bulls***t, that they will be swimming in money once again.
If you are new to this site and you are studying with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, whatever you do, don’t get baptized without doing some research. Once you get baptized, you have signed your life away to the devil.
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Exhausted says:
May 20, 2015 at 3:10 am
Oh yes, one more thought….The use of children is so
Manipulative. My grandson recently made a commercial
For a product and it took lots of retakes to get it right
So how does that work with the jw.org. Thing.
Did Lett get his begging correct on the first take????
I doubt it from what I hear. Plus… The big plus you cannot take retakes in public talks. Is it just me????
this is why I. Am EXHAUSTED…
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Exhausted says:
May 20, 2015 at 3:27 am
With my limited education, … I still managed with my
Husband to enjoy a hard earned successful business
In the supply/service trade. However, from the time I
Was young, opportunities were there for me that we’re denied to me because of the end being just on the horizon. Do I feel anger???? Yes. Do I want to give
my money to Lett???? Hecks no because I gave in spades.
And I mean NO. I will give to the charities I choose to.
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Neal Krouni says:
May 20, 2015 at 5:36 am
As a naive youngster, I was brainwashed by “JW.BORG”‘s fairy tales. As I grew older, I stupidly continued to believe or half-believe the lies. This, of course, made me lackadaisical in preparing for my own future, which made things more difficult down the line.
That is why I do not miss my former associates and “friends” in the WT “Borg”. I’m 100% glad to be OUT. It opened up so many opportunities. I never pine for the “old days”. It reminds me of a line from a song, I believe the title is Midnight Blue: “I forgave you, Couldn’t save you, Drove you from my mind…”
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 7:45 am
@Anonymous . You make a LOT of Valid points in your last comment ! If every JW Thought like you & Analysed like you there would be No-one Left in the Organisation!! The Trouble is many Either Don’t Think & Leave their Brain at the Kingdom Hall Doors or JWs ARE SCARED Big Time of LOSING FAMILY & FRIENDS which I suspect is the case!
That is Why the GB ARE EVIL when they Recommend SHUNNING FAMILY!!
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David says:
May 20, 2015 at 8:42 am
So God’s anointed channel of truth is saying that the sale of the New York properties is just covering the construction of the new bethel. Can you believe that? How such liars can call themselves Christians? As long as ignorance exist these charlatans will continue to exploit people in the name of fantasies.
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M Saurus says:
May 20, 2015 at 9:43 am
Pickled Brain – I didn’t know you were hiding here! You are so vehemently against all things JW – why do you keep up the pretense? Not being mean, just asking. My immediate family and I “faded away” about 3 years ago – at the huge price of semi-shunning from pretty much all our “friends” and most of our family. But it was worth it, and it gives everyone something to think about, since we’ve been “in the truth” since our childhood.
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Simon Kestral says:
May 20, 2015 at 10:39 am
@Saurus, it’s hard to break away when your spouse wants to stay. When you reveal an apostate label, many a JW spouse will cut you off emotionally. Their loyalty is to WT first. So unless the “apostate” is prepared for divorce, keeping it secret may be the best choice.
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 10:55 am
THANK YOU SIMON KESTREL!! You understand the Dilemma Completely.I am trying to SAVE MY MARRIAGE & Family by Subtle Means . If I was Single I would Confront the Elders& secretly tape it & put it on the Internet!!
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Ted says:
May 20, 2015 at 11:25 am
“God works in Mysterious ways” some say, and it’s a useful
statement to deflect unanswerable questions. However there
is a glaring inconsistency in the way God is dealing with his
“Present day people” compared with those of the past
In the forty year wilderness trek, they had miraculous manna
for breakfast and dined on quail in the evening, shoes never wore
out, and no shortage of water, a couple of taps on a rock with
Moses staff and water came gushing out. All evidence that God
is with us, said Moses.
Moving on to the Christian Era, more miraculous evidence,
identifying those whom God was backing. Five loaves and
two fishes morphed into enough food to feed 5,000 people.
( I wonder why the disciples were reduced to eating ears of corn
when they were hungry. )? God even supplied money to pay
Caesars tax, all Peter had to do was catch a fish and there in the
fish’s mouth was the exact amount. etc, etc.
But now in this “Time of the. End” when God’s plan for mankind
is supposed to be reaching its grand climax. There’s a notable
absence of any definite evidence to identify his people, you just
have to accept unsubstantiated verbal claims.
The WTS, has turned the system on its head. Instead of God
providing for the people, God now needs the help of the people
just to fulfil his plans for next year, So why is God so shy now?
after manifesting himself so overtly in the past?
“God moves in mysterious ways” comes in handy here.
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Ted says:
May 20, 2015 at 12:21 pm
@Pickled Brain, Don’t lose hope of your wife seeing through
the “Untruth”. My wife kept going for nearly a year after I left,
eventually she reached the same conclusions as me.
One of the elders gave her the “Pernicious” advice, to leave me
saying I would shipwreck her faith, but she reminded him that
she had taken marriage vows. We’re still together, this year will
be our 61st, anniversary
I enjoy your reports from the Watchtower Study and the inside
info, but hope things work out so you can make your exit.
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Ted says:
May 20, 2015 at 12:50 pm
Correction. To a previous post, money in fish’s mouth
was for temple tax not Caesars .
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:12 pm
@Ted . Thank you so much for your KIND & ENCOURAGING Comments. You understand what I am going through seeing someone you Love still being Manipulated by Mind Control of the GB!!
I am biding my time because she is an intelligent woman BUT it is hard if you have been bought up in the Truth for 50 years & to Admit it is ALL
A SHAM & A BIG CON so i am by her side being a Friend,Supportive but also Being Subtle like ‘isn’t it wonderful the Last Days are over 100 years long ,Armageddon must be really close otherwise it wouldn’t be called the Last Days?’ & other comments like ‘ wasn’t it amazing when Paul said at Acts 17v24 that GOD doesn’t Dwell in Handmade Temples so obviously the early Christians didn’t spend much money on their buildings as they met in houses!!
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Innocent Son says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Fantastic comments guys please keep it up. You know as an x J W it means so much to me that so many of you out there feel the same….Until I found this site I found it very hard to express how I felt, bottling it all up inside, feeling angry and isolated….No more!
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Innocent Son says:
May 20, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Hope your reading this Governing Body…
You will be held accountable when it all comes crashing down around you.Who will be your saviour and defender? Not this Jehovah God! He dosen’t know you!
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Pickled brain says:
May 20, 2015 at 3:03 pm
@M Saurus. Enjoyed your comment. & you were fortunate the family came with you at the same time which is helpful & supportive. I wish you well for the future& No it wasn’t mean to ask . That’s fine by me & what I feel refreshing about this website is WE CAN ASK any Questions,UNLIKE in the Organisation where if you ask certain Questions you will be viewed suspiciously & maybe shunned as Bad Association!!
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anonymous says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:06 am
If I am typical of how people feel when they watch those jwbroadcasting shows, I would have felt overwhelmed when they keep showing all the Bethels and all the branches and all the building work and all the future projects etc. and all the Bethelites that need to be supported.
For a typical person in a community that goes to a church, the thing those people have to worry about is paying the minister of that church his salary and the upkeep of the church. They might have fund raisings and car washes and bingo games etc. to raise money but they have fun doing it and their pancakes breakfasts etc. are fun for those people to support and they get something for their money but when it comes to supporting the world wide work and the Society keeps showing all those buildings and all those people that need to be supported by contributions, it seems overwhelming to me and I am wondering if others still in the Organization feel the same way when the Society keeps showing all that stuff that needs supporting and they keep begging for more and more money.
I think what the intent of the Society is when they keep showing all those projects and buildings and Bethelites that live off of the donations is to put into the rank and file’s minds that the Society has a huge outlay of money to fork out every day (you can tell by the videos and pictures of those places and Bethelites it has to be millions of dollars every day) and so that is why the cry for more money but if I was already having a hard time meeting my bills every month, it would encourage me to look for excuses to find out that it’s not the “truth” after all so that I could walk away from the stress of supporting all that stuff and Bethelites and keep that money in my pocket to make my life easier.
I would think the latest jwbroadcasting show has to be very stressful for those already strapped for money. I know I thought every month when I was still going to meetings, how much I’d love to keep that $80 a month and I secretly wished for it to be found out to be a fraud and to come crashing down so I could keep that money. I was thinking that for a long time.
I hated going to meetings and assemblies and I hated the agony of thinking of Armageddon and I hated the thought that if I didn’t go out in service more that Jehovah would kill me at Armageddon for not doing more.
Every time I came home from a meeting or service, I would be so depressed and it would take me days to get over the depression and then the very next meeting, the depression would start all over again. Every time they’d cancel a meeting for weather, I’d be so happy, not sad. Just the thought of going to meetings and service and assemblies made me depressed.
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Wanderer says:
May 21, 2015 at 1:29 pm
@anonymous thank you for that comment. I agree wholeheartedly with every point you made.
I remember as a child looking around at my school thinking how unfair it was that every person would die very soon except for maybe…maybe me, if I was good enough, if I had done enough field service etc.
What a horrible way to be brought up!
I was very good at sport and was targeted by school sport teachers & local sport scouts, but while playing school sport during school hours was ok with my parents, there was no way I would be able to join a sporting club. That is now a huge regret now I have faded & I am in my late 30’s.
I remember hating the monotonous meetings, field service, pre-study, the whatever you are doing now is not good enough, the constant “encouragement” you need to reach out and do more.
I wish there was a way of finding out the exact figures the Org. Have paid out in out of court settlements & law suits over the last few years, it would really be an eye opener for so many who are still in.
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anonymous says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:10 pm
@Wanderer, I feel bad that you didn’t find out when you were young the truth about the truth but you still have a lot of good years ahead of you. I am so happy for you that you didn’t have to be almost 70 like I am before having woken up. Be glad about that anyway. Over the years, I have known scores of people who have lived their whole lives waiting for Armageddon to come and are now dead. What a waste of human lives this Organization is!!
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Wanderer says:
May 22, 2015 at 3:26 am
@anonymous we can both be happy to be out of the Org, let’s celebrate that!
My Wife stopped a few moths after I did, and then we had our children. I am so glad that my kids will have every opportunity I can possibly give them to be whatever they want, and pursue any interest they want, be it sport, academic, art, dance etc. not a pigeon hole of pioneer/menial job.
I just wanted to say that although I really don’t post much, I read everything here and I really enjoy your posts. You just make so much sense to me.
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:56 pm
Thank you so much for saying that!!! You made my day!! I am so glad for you that your wife came out too and your kids don’t have to grow up in such a horrible religion.
M Saurus says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:21 am
Pickled- I understand. It’s hard. And our “family” are several states away so it’s not as hard for us. They will speak to us but it’s very awkward. Just remember to do what’s best for you and your sanity. They always used to speak of a “double life” – it’s hard to maintain and the stress is not good for you healthwise. Best to you!
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Jerry O Connor says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:42 am
Hello to all.
Nothing watchtower does surprises me. There appears to be no rock bottom for this sinister cult. All of us who were jws know what kind of pressure will be put on children in order to extort money. This talk of getting children baptized as young as nine is very troubling. Do not be surprised if watchtower starts baptizing babies. The ramifications of this are hideous. Reading “my book of bible stories” to the very young will lead to terror for the children. We know that jw parents will use thinly veiled threats to get the children in line. I believe that watchtower is devolving. Present trends indicate that many members who leave, do so because of the information available on the net. I have no figures to prove my theory of devolution.In time watchtower will be composed of the very young and the old. Jws aged between twenty five and forty five will become a very small percentage. This group are the most likely to go online and find the real truth about watchtower. Gone are the day`s of the small discreet box at the back of the hall for contributions. I would say that most contributors use electronic banking in line with watchtower`s leap into the age of technology. Jw children have it really bad as it is. Now they have to render service to Mammon as well as their genocidal jehovah. Watchtower I hate you for what you do to children.
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Pickled brain says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:51 am
@M Saurus . Thank you for your kind comment! Much Appreciated
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 2:37 am
There’s another misleading statement by Stephen Lett that Witnesses are overlooking when he was talking about when in 1990 when they stopped charging for the literature at the back literature counter. Even though the brothers handling the literature didn’t ask for money, it was understood that we were to put the same amount of money for that literature in the contribution box. I remember talks telling us that if we were to buy that literature in a store, how much would it cost and that is what we were told to put in the contribution box for that literature.
That literature cost the brothers and sisters the same amount to them as before the new arrangement but when they placed the literature with the householders, it was presented as “free” but at the end of the sales pitch, the Witness was supposed to say to the householder “if you would care to contribute towards the cost of the printing of the literature, I’d be happy to take it towards the printing of more literature.”
I think I might have done that one or two times and could never bring myself to do it again because if the literature is presented as “free”, then why was I supposed to then ask for a donation after the householder had said they’d take it? It never made any sense to me and I couldn’t do it but I was made to feel like I was going against God if I didn’t do that by anybody else that was with me at the door, especially by the pioneers but doing that made me feel low down and dirty.
I stopped going in service and meetings about a year ago and as I remember hardly anybody asked for a donation any more. They just give the literature away, willy-nilly and of course if the householder is taking the literature and throwing it in the trash as soon as the Witness walks away, what care to they have but on the other hand, the Witness who just gives it away like that, can count it on their monthly time slip and it looks good for them. That is misleading when it comes to just how important all those translating offices are needed and all those printing plants are needed when probably 99% of that literature is thrown in the trash as soon as the Witness walks away from the door.
The literature was never “free” though. It got paid for by the Witness by putting the money for that literature in the contribution box at the back of the hall. The only difference was that before they stopped charging for the literature at the back of the hall, the Society got paid two times for that literature, first when the Witness paid for it at the back of the hall and then when we asked for the money for that literature from the householder, we had to put that money that they gave us for the literature in the contribution box as well.
So they got paid twice for that literature and then in 1990 when the new arrangement went into effect, the Witnesses were supposed to ask for a donation but I think very few did, but they were supposed to ask for it anyway and they were expected to put that money in the contribution box as well but they still paid for the literature out of their own pockets.
Lett was very deceitful to the camera. Since 1990 was 25 years ago, most new Witnesses today wouldn’t know what was really going on in 1990, especially with the Jimmy Swaggart thing.
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Charles Costante says:
May 22, 2015 at 3:02 am
“I think I might have done that one or two times and could never bring myself to do it again because if the literature is presented as “free”, then why was I supposed to then ask for a donation after the householder had said they’d take it?”
Anonymous, I left before all of this, but I can’t imagine asking for a donation after giving someone the impression it was free. Most householders would feel obliged to give one, and probably a lot more than what we used to “place” them for before all this happened. It’s so calculated!
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Neal Krouni says:
May 22, 2015 at 10:52 am
@Pickled brain
You’re doing the right thing. Discretion is the better part of valor.
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Pickled brain says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:33 pm
@Neale Krouni. Sorry Neale just noticed your comment.Thank you for your encouragement. Much Appreciated!
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 6:05 pm
We all know how Rutherford had his two Cadillac cars during the depression and his mansion in California called Beth Sarim but this is what he wrote in the 1934 Yearbook where the Watchtower reprinted the Declaration of Facts to Hitler in 1933 on page 137:
“Instead of collecting money from the people and using the same to erect great buildings and to support men in luxury, we print the gospel message of God’s Kingdom and carry it to the homes of the people that they may at the least inconvenience to themselves, gain a knowledge of God’s purposes concerning them.”
When our ancestors got sucked into the Watchtower Organization, they were led to believe that their contributions were not going to go for fancy buildings and to support a wealthy clergy class. That is how our ancestors were led to believe the Watchtower Organization was all about. It was only to spread the gospel message to the people’s homes and were told that religion is a snare and a racket.
Most people in the Organization today are 3rd or even 4th generation Witnesses going back to the early 1900’s. Our ancestors thought that they were getting themselves into a religion that really cared about the people and weren’t out to suck money out of them. They thought that this religion was different than all the other religions that passed the plate or tithed them.
If you look around almost any Kingdom Hall, you will see families of families who make up the majority of the publishers. Those families go back at least 60 or 70 years. Those people passed on their religion to their kids who passed it along to their kids and along the way, it morphed into a religion that is no different than any other religion with it’s big buildings and clergy living in luxury and asking for more and more money.
If we were brought into this religion 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 years ago, this is not the same religion that we joined. When we joined this religion, we believed that God was directing it but God is not directing the Organization.
With knowledge comes wisdom. If our ancestors knew anything about the Bible, they couldn’t have been so easily fooled but that is how the Watchtower attracts new followers. They attract people who don’t know anything about the Bible and so are not wise about the Bible and easily manipulated by so-called scholars (the Witnesses).
Witnesses are like the frog that gets dropped into a bowl of cool water. If the water warms up real gradually, the frog won’t realize he’s being cooked. That is how the Society has gotten so many into believing it’s scholarly nonsense. If it happened all of a sudden, people would recognize it’s nonsense and get out but that’s not how we got sucked into the Watchtower cult. It started with our ancestors who joined what they thought was a humble religion and it’s taken over 100 years but it’s not a humble religion anymore.
It started out different than the other religions in not passing the plate and making people believe that the Society was not like other religions in saying that religion is a snare and a racket, but unfortunately, the Watchtower Society is a snare and a racket after all and the rank and file are the frogs being cooked to death by it.
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Wanderer says:
May 22, 2015 at 7:39 pm
When we were younger and saving for a deposit for our first house (small modest home in a very working class area) we were told by our group study conductor not to be materialistic and that buying a house was a waste of time because we were so close to “the end”.
Turns out we bought just before a property boom and paid it off quick! So glad I didn’t listen to a labourers financial advice ;-)
How can JW’s have that attitude but then watch this blatant money grabbing televangelist, agree with him and then give him more money?
How does a remote translating office cost a million dollars? Is that keeping your eye simple?
My extended family are all in and very strong, but they are intelligent people, how do these people not see through the deceit?
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Neal Krouni says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:29 am
Obviously not so intelligent. ;) Don’t be fooled.
P.S.: I learned a long time ago, If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck…
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:59 am
There is a new Youtuber called Spike r and his latest video is about Stephen Lett’s speech asking for more money and he has a very interesting take on it.
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Neal Krouni says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:12 am
Very interesting clip. Could the gb indeed be literally “rolling around” in cash like Scrooge McDuck? I think a more plausible theory (call it a Conspiracy Theory if you like) is that a portion of that money is being funneled to some other, possibly secret, sister or parent organization. Much like “protection money”, it may explain why wt is still afloat in spite of the child abuse scandal, and is openly permitted to operate using obviously cult-ish methodologies and techniques!
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Neal Krouni says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:17 am
And if you don’t believe the Government goes after cults, just think back to Waco!!!
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Otto Atlantis says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Hey Cedars or whatever your name is today. I finally figured out why people hate you. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a child molester yourself. Are you an undercover JW??? Keep contemplating suicide you toffee-nosed closet case!!!
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Cedars says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:00 pm
Ladies and gentleman… a Cedars-hater. One of the more eloquent ones… ;)
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:09 pm
With some of the comments and all the f words that so many JW’s use when they comment on “apostate” web sites, this guy really is a more eloquent Cedars-hater. I almost think this guy went to college or something, he is so eloquent.
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Pickled brain says:
May 24, 2015 at 10:03 am
@ Anonymous. Do you think Our Dear LOVABLE OTTO went to not just college but maybe Elders School or Even Gilead to Learn such Kindness in wishing suicide on someone…. CHARMING!!!!
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Innocent Son says:
May 24, 2015 at 4:01 pm
@ Otto Atlantis, I don’t know if you’re a J W apologist, or a perverted troll or both! But get back from under the rock you crawled from…You see the truth will come out about this so called Christian Organisation, where will you be then?
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Pickled brain says:
May 24, 2015 at 6:08 pm
500 COMMENTS on Stephen LETTS begging for money from Children ??? OBSCENE!!!!
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Innocent Son says:
May 25, 2015 at 1:34 pm
Hmm, I wonder what’s next, probably telling the Faithfull J dubs that Satan is behind the Orgs’ money troubles and that this is signalling the ‘ Time of the End ‘ and for them all to rally round the G.B.
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Pickled brain says:
May 25, 2015 at 2:28 pm
@Stephen LETTS . I think I should be appointed FINANCIAL ADVISER to the GB .., my advice to make up the shortfall in funds for Kingdom Hall builds,RTOs ,etc
1)Manufacture SOPHIA & CALEB Soft Toys & ask ALL Under 12 year JWs to get their parents to buy them at $24.99 for the pair
2)Get rid of some of the printing presses & Get in Sophia & CALEB Producing Machines.!!
3) have a SPECIAL CAMPAIGN 3 times a year to Give These toys to the public & invite Contributions instead of Memorial,Convention & other Campaigns!!
I wonder if I would get to be the 8th member of the Governing Body as I Had a VISION LAST NIGHT of SOPHIA& CALEB under the Influence of ‘THE HOLY Johnnie Walker SPIRIT ‘. …
I am sure I Can do BETTER GESTURES than Stephen LETTS!! I did get a ‘GOOD ‘in the Theocratic Ministry School !!
There is ONE PARTICULAR GESTURE I am GOOD AT …., it INVOLVES…., TWO FINGERS???? It comes Naturally, Especially when 7 Rich American Men come Begging for Donations!!!
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http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/stephen-lett-admits-incomeexpenditure-shortfall-as-he-reminds-witnesses-to-donate-valuable-things#comments
Stephen Lett admits income/expenditure shortfall as he reminds Witnesses to donate “valuable things”
avatar
Posted on May 5, 2015
The May episode of JW Broadcasting features Stephen Lett asking JWs to cover a shortfall in funds
The May episode of JW Broadcasting features Stephen Lett asking JWs to cover a shortfall in funds
The May 2015 episode of JW Broadcasting was billed by its host, Governing Body member Stephen Lett, as being a “historic” one. It ended up being just that, but for none of the reasons given.
Lett opened the program by drawing attention to the fact that all seven Governing Body members have now hosted JW Broadcasting (tv.jw.org), and hailed the fact that approval has now been given to end the project’s trial period and roll it out on a permanent basis in multiple languages.
If this amounts to a “historic” development, then either Lett is shaky on what “historic” means, or anything new that happens anywhere to anyone can have the same superlative applied.
What WAS historic about the program was that it featured, for the first time, a Governing Body member admitting to the organization being in a financially precarious situation, with Lett revealing a shortfall between projected income and expenditure for the forthcoming fiscal period.
This website has long pointed to a number of omens that not all is well for Watchtower financially – chief among these being the slashing of branch offices and a whopping 39% reduction in monthly magazine printing. But this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that the organization has come clean about being in financial difficulties – albeit with a notable lack of transparency about the actual figures involved.
Unsurprisingly, Lett used the opportunity to urge Witnesses to donate, and rather comically set about doing this by trying to distance the organization from others who “coerce” their followers to give money…
The above video is my own montage of Lett’s pleas for donations. To watch the full, 1-hour 36-minute unedited program, please click here.
From lack of transparency to blatant deception
As with the previous seven JW Broadcasting episodes, I will be making a full YouTube rebuttal to Lett’s performance in the next week or so. But I wanted to take this opportunity to point out the complete lack of transparency regarding funds in this episode, and highlight at least two areas in which Lett has been blatantly deceitful.
If you are going to divulge a shortfall in funds, particularly with the aim of leveraging more donations (or “valuable things”) from a pool of supporters who are already lagging in this regard, the least you can do is treat them like adults and give some hard numbers. Nowhere in Lett’s rather patronizing, condescending comments is a single figure cited regarding the projected amounts of income and expenditure, and the shortfall between the two. Everything is left to the imagination (or, more accurately, gullibility) of the viewer.
Then you have the flat-out lies regarding the new donation arrangement for kingdom hall construction, and the amount of money involved in the move to Warwick.
When Lett first mentioned feedback from Circuit Overseers regarding the new donation arrangement, the first thought that whizzed through my head was: “Thank goodness! The publishers have seen straight through the stealth-tithing scam and have been giving Circuit Overseers a piece of their mind.”
But according to Lett, rather than there being any dissatisfaction with the new arrangement, the cause of concern for Circuit Overseers is merely that there is a misconception among publishers that Watchtower is flush with money because it has “cancelled” the loans and mortgages of congregations who owe the organization for new kingdom halls.
Cue facepalm, and heavy sigh of despair…
As already reported by this website, a full unabridged reading of the letters to elders dated March 29 and May 12, 2014 reveals that Watchtower has not stopped congregations from sending in money under the new arrangement. Rather, it has insisted that at least the same amount of money be sent through each month for congregations who were already paying off debts, and that congregations without debts should start sending in money each month as though they were in debt!
Extract from the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter to elders, NOT to be read out to ordinary publishers
Extract from the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter to elders, NOT to be read out to ordinary publishers
And ALL congregations, whether previously indebted or not, have been ordered to send in any surplus of funds, leaving only $5,000 plus three months’ worth of operating costs in the local coffers. So rather than saving money for congregations, Watchtower is demanding more from them as a result of the recent changes.
Part of the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter insisting that surplus congregations funds should be sent to Watchtower
Part of the 3-page postscript to the March 29 letter insisting that surplus congregations funds should be sent to Watchtower
Extract from the May 12 letter to elders, clarifying the amount of funds that can be held on congregation accounts without being sent to Watchtower
Extract from the May 12 letter to elders, clarifying the amount of funds that can be held on congregation accounts without being sent to Watchtower
And keep in mind that if Watchtower ever goes bust (an increasingly likely scenario) the kingdom halls will go straight down in flames with it under this new arrangement (being no longer financially independent), and none of the money invested in kingdom hall construction by local brothers will find its way back into their pockets.
In the twisted world of Watchtower, a Witness should pay for his or her local kingdom hall as though it is their responsibility, even though the kingdom hall is an asset ultimately belonging to Watchtower and Watchtower can (and will) get all the proceeds from selling it.
But you wouldn’t suspect any of this dreadful scam from Lett, who draws comparisons between the ‘generosity’ of Watchtower’s new stealth-tithing arrangement and the dropping of charges for literature in 1990 – a move which, by the way, arose only because Watchtower’s non-profit status was under threat.
This all represents a blatant deception on Lett’s part, relying entirely on the majority of viewers being blissfully ignorant of the letters to elders that were circulated last year, and the full scope of the new donation/tithing arrangement.
But if this weren’t enough, we then have what I think is the most bald-faced lie I have ever seen a Governing Body member utter into a camera…
The first thing to remember is that Watchtower has operated quite successfully for many years before the move to Warwick was proposed, so any attempt to fob the viewer off with some half-baked story that the proceeds of one unnamed “significant” Brooklyn property would offset only a few weeks of normal operating costs can be immediately dismissed.
Even if Watchtower were to sell one of its Brooklyn properties for only one dollar, that is a still a dollar they wouldn’t have had available to them in any of the years prior to the Warwick move being discussed – years when Watchtower had up to 116 branch offices in operation (in 2010) compared to only 90 today.
This leaves us with the breathtaking subterfuge of Lett’s suggestion that the sale of the Brooklyn property portfolio “is basically only financing the construction of World Headquarters in Warwick and the purchase of other properties that are needed to facilitate the move from Brooklyn in the future.”
Like many cults, Watchtower is less than open when it comes to divulging how much money it spends on various projects to those it holds responsible for picking up the tab. This means that information on what Watchtower is spending on the Warwick move is hard to come by at best, but there are two figures that give some indication of the amounts of cash involved.
Four separate neutral sources, namely The Brooklyn Paper, The Observer, The Real Deal and the New York Post all cite an estimated figure of $11.5 million for the building costs of the new Warwick headquarters. I am presently trying to verify the source of this estimate, but considering the complex is being built with mostly volunteer labor, such a low figure isn’t completely out of the question.
It has also been reported elsewhere that the Tuxedo complex, perhaps the most well-known facility for supporting the work at Warwick, cost Watchtower a mere $3.2 million.
Obviously there are a lot of other numbers we are missing for other properties and planning/development expenses (due entirely to Watchtower’s lack of transparency rather than any attempts to mislead or deceive on the part of anyone else), but even if we multiply the above two figures by 10 for the sake of argument, we are left with less than $150 million.
Contrast that with the 1 Billion Watchtower is making for the entire Brooklyn portfolio, with an eye-watering $375 million coming through for one transaction alone, and the depth of Lett’s deception should quickly become apparent.
The move from Brooklyn to Warwick IS an enormous money-spinner for the organization, commonly known as a property “flip,” and in no way can it be thought of as a like-for-like switch according to Lett’s blatant, bald-faced misrepresentation.
Nobody else to blame
If Watchtower is low on funds, which I am thrilled to hear confirmation of straight from the horse’s mouth (in more than one sense), it is NOT the fault of any misunderstanding on the part of ordinary Witnesses. If anything, most Witnesses woefully underestimate the breathtaking amount of money Watchtower has pocketed from selling off Brooklyn, thanks in no small measure to the Governing Body’s total, deliberate and ongoing financial information black-out.
There is only one direction in which the finger of blame should be pointed respecting the Governing Body’s monetary woes, and that is towards them. If the Governing Body is spending more money than they are receiving from the kindness and generosity of Witnesses, who are already hard-pressed as a result of the insane and immoral prohibition on higher education, then by no stretch of the imagination can they be thought of as either faithful or discreet.
Let’s just hope that, for many Witnesses watching this most recent parade of self-congratulation, exaggeration, lies and bluster, with Stephen Lett as the latest floundering, pompous ringmaster to hog the limelight in this grotesque JW Broadcasting circus sham, the penny has finally dropped.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/stephen-lett-admits-incomeexpenditure-shortfall-as-he-reminds-witnesses-to-donate-valuable-things#comments
Newer Comments →
alanv says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:07 am
I found this video just before Lloyd posted this article. I am truly sickened by the governing body’s blatant aim at getting children to donate now as well as adults. For an org that says it never asks for donations, this shows total hypocrisy on their part. Hopefully this new video will help many JWs see how the religion is just interested in growing itself whatever the cost to its members.
Reply
Everyday Explorer says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:21 am
Blatant indoctrination of young impressionable minds, hearts and souls. Surely this is over-reaching on the part of the WT, bearing in mind their often-professed statements that they do not proactively seek donations? Surely even the long-suffering rank and file will find this short video a bit of a conscience-churner? Who has not been a kid and wanted an ice cream?! Give a kid a break! This is dreadfully sad, mean-spirited bilge from an incomprehensibly deluded Governing Body. Talk about by their acts, shall you know them.
Reply
Mike Pollard says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:25 am
I fail to see how this is possible when net worth is calculated in many, many millions – up to a billion!
How can that be all gone and where too?
Maybe it’s a McDonalds’ ploy by getting kids emotionally tied to the organisation.
Reply
Everyday Explorer says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Yes, indeed. It is a policy which embraces devious wheels within devious wheels, careering off through all generations. And, at the same time, real meaningful lives — like yours and mine, whatever our ages, including those of our young ones who must be protected to the best of our ability — are affected by such life-denying propaganda. Folks, we know we can speak out against such insidious, far-reaching hurt-speak. The WT Governing Body really has no idea of the Pandora’s Box they is a’-openin’ via the good ole worldwide web. The GB deserve this exposure of their unprincipled callousness. Those seven deluded men are directing the spotlight brightly on their own uncaring hearts. I hope there will be a peaceful resolution soon to all this sorrow.
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chatpal says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:28 am
I will be interested in how many parents watching the video will also feel that is going too far. the constant ‘reminders’ will wear on people the same way as the Armageddon warnings.
How long will it take for people to think on their own and see for themselves these are no more than money grabbing guilt rants by male chauvinist video ‘stars’ begging in the name of God. And to add,
Im at a total loss trying to wrap my head around the whole idea of baptism of children. to me, the Bible says nothing of the sort.
Reply
Designer Stubble says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:31 am
***Proclaimers book (1993) jv chap. 21 p. 340 How Is It All Financed? ***
As early as the second issue of the WatchTower,in August 1879, Brother Russell stated: “‘Zion’s Watch Tower’ has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support. When He who says: ‘All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,’ fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.”
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Robert Crompton says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:36 am
What vile money-grubbing racketeers they have become!
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Maria says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:47 am
Have they ever tried to get children to donate before, or is this a first time? When I grew up (born in 1989) I never felt any pressure to donate, so I never did.
Reply
Charles Costante says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:13 am
I was never pressured to donate as a child, Maria, but that was in the sixties. I think they’re getting desperate!
Reply
Stephane Laliberte says:
May 21, 2015 at 7:36 am
I remember that we were being told the same thing. The parents were told to give us (the kids) money so that we would put it into the contribution box for the family.
So, this video, although being much more visible, is still the same message that has been going around since, at very least, the 80s.
Reply
William Niles says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:57 am
What a LOW. I am a parent and this is just too much. My wife and I would NEVER encourage our 8-year-old daughter to give up what little bit of allowance $ we can afford to give her for the purposes that WT is showing in that video. That is sick propaganda; plain and simple. The Ice Cream truck comes by our neighborhood once a week and sometimes we just don’t have the extra $ for it and we teach our daughter that sometimes we just can’t do it; there’s a time for everything–she understands that. Yeah, our daughter definately thinks about the Ice Cream truck or buying Ice-Cream at the store like the video is showing…and she looks forward to it because she knows we can’t do it all the time. What that video is depicting is absolutely disgusting…the WT is at a desperation point. Thanks for sharing John Cedars.
Reply
John Walsh says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:04 am
I think we can be pretty sure where this is going eventually. Good chance they will be baptising babies soon enough, ‘New Light’.
At around 12yrs of age I offered all of my money about $15 [1969] to the young Circuit Oversea with a sound financial family backup, and he had no problems taking that from an indoctrinated child from a poor family.
Says it all really, certain types work there way to the upper positions in the JW’s and they are all ‘tared’ with the same brush.
Reply
Charles Costante says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:04 am
“When He who says: ‘All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,’ fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.””
I hope they put their money (or lack thereof) where their mouth is, Designer Stubble, and suspend publication of that nonsense immediately!
Reply
Searcher says:
May 21, 2015 at 7:00 am
Don’t hold your breath!
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John Walsh says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:11 am
If they practised what they preached they would follow Christ’s perfect example. Jesus was baptised at 30, when he reached adulthood. He was perfect they say, and could instruct scribes at the temple, yet not ready for baptism until 30.
As the GB know very well, if children are not locked in by 20 most will be out of there.
Reply
Charles Costante says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:19 am
Kids are a lot more savvy nowadays, John, which is why they’re desperate to get them before they become teenagers.
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Scrubmaster says:
May 21, 2015 at 6:52 am
@John that is what is so interesting to me. Like you said Jesus was baptized at 30 and since in Israel a male was not considered an adult until age 30 this is why I am sure they got baptized at an age when they could make adult decisions. I am quite sure since the early Christian’s were of the heavenly class, no kids were baptized. It is huge decision kids are making with out even having lived life and having the opportunity to fully understand or even look at other beliefs.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:24 am
Folks,
For you religious folks, there is no example of child baptism in the bible. All baptisms in the bible are adults.
Further, the age of majority in those times was older than it is now!
This is a disgusting, shameless piece of propaganda and it makes me feel sick to my stomach!
Oh well, I’ll just go and get myself some ice cream….
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Steve McRoberts says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:58 am
Another Watchtower-induced dilemma for Jehovah’s Witnesses: should kids get paper-routes or other forms of employment in order to contribute financially to the organization that is sucking their lives dry: or would such jobs interfere with time they should be spending in spreading the propaganda?
Too bad they’re not allowed to have a childhood and develop into mentally healthy adults rather than being coerced into slaving away for this sick organization their entire lives: http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/cult/the-garden-of-love/
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Searcher says:
May 21, 2015 at 7:04 am
Wow! This gives new meaning to the bully who stole the kid’s lunch money or ice cream money. How do these people live in their skin? The GB and WTS leadership is truly a disgusting bunch!
Reply
StrongHaiku says:
May 21, 2015 at 7:45 am
Maybe I am overthinking their strategy and/or giving them too much credit, but it seems to me that this particular ploy isn’t just about getting children to donate the few pennies or dollars they may have. I think the amount would be negligible compared to what the adults would donate.
It seems to me that this strategy also serves two other purposes.
1. It works as a shaming tactic to the adults. If the child is donating what little they have I believe the parent will feel compelled to do the same.
2. It works as a way of getting children to start donating early so that it becomes a habit as they grow up. And, by “donating” I would include time, resources, and their very life and not just money.
In other words, while the short-term/obvious gain is to go after the children’s cash I think there is a more long-term and not so obvious gain. Just a thought…
Reply
Pickled brain says:
May 21, 2015 at 8:18 am
@StrongHaiku. ALL Your Points were EXACTLY What I was thinking . This is Very Very Clever Mind Manipulation by the GB !! GUILT TRIPPING the Children & the Parents & Each other !!! Are the GB Using Psychologists to Instruct them???
THIS is SO BLATANT yet SPOOKY CULT Behaviour!!
Reply
Searcher says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:25 am
They’re (i.e. GB) good aren’t they? Real good! And not in a friendly way either.
Reply
anonymous says:
May 21, 2015 at 8:13 am
The Society ain’t no dummy. If there’s 1 million children in the Organization and they each donated their piggy banks with a worth of $20, there’s another $20,000,000.00 they will collect. If each of those 1 million kids donated the $2.00 they had in their piggy banks for an ice cream cone, then that’s $2,000.000.00.00. Not a bad haul even if it’s just bunch of ice cream cones from little kids.
Lett said in his latest broadcast that in poor countries, people will donate their last dime even if they don’t know how they will survive the next day. How can they take money from people who are that poor? They should be giving those people money, not taking it from them.
The Society wants those parents to think that their kids’ ice cream cone money is going to all those poor kids in Africa who have to be sitting in the rain for their talks and that ice cream money is going to make it so those poor brothers and sisters can sit in an “appropriate” Kingdom Hall, like what they have but if those parents realized where the money is really going, they might not feel quite so generous.
Reply
StrongHaiku says:
May 21, 2015 at 8:33 am
Good points, @anonymous… As you point out, with enough children, “ice cream” money can quickly add up to some serious cash.
And, to clarify my previous comment; I may have come across as saying that there is little value in getting kids to break their piggy bank. Sorry if that was the case. I totally agree that there is the immediate influx of cash which the GB would never turn down. But I think it might be worth to point out that the GB’s “currency” is also guilt and habit, which has additional pay offs.
This is not the first time (or last) where the GB has used children as leverage to get the adults to listen, obey, and do more.
Reply
ziddina says:
May 21, 2015 at 11:32 am
I agree, Anonymous. I was doing some calculating (please feel free to double-check my math) & if each of the approx. 8 million JWs (rounded up for ease of calculation) gave ONLY $6 PER MONTH, the Watchtower Society would gross OVER A HALF-BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR.
I am flabbergasted & dumbfounded by the bottomless, black-hole aspect of their endless greed! They’ve just made approximately $1 BILLION dollars in sales of Brooklyn real estate; they’re probably receiving AT LEAST a HALF-BILLION a year just in donations, & they want MORE?? To the point of depriving poor, mind-controlled Sophia of her one small treat by demanding HER money from her, too?
I cannot even understand that level of vicious greed & stupidity – on the part of the Watchtower Society & on the part of the victimized Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Reply
Ted says:
May 21, 2015 at 8:18 am
More blatant guilt propaganda to manipulate young minds.
All these “Jehovahs Friend” videos have used the mind
control techniques of guilt and fear. Shameful !
As they’re so desperate for funds, I have some suggestions.
During the War, many schools in Britain got the kids to collect
jam jars and old newspapers, these could be sold to help the
War Effort. The kids loved it you had that “All in it together
feeling”.
Scrap paper would be no problem for JWs, there must be
thousands of tons of obsolete books out there that are just an
embarrassment to them.
As a final thought, how about second hand clothing stalls
along side the literature carts. Unlikely you think?
Well, having plumbed the depths, begging for kids ice cream
money, I would rule nothing out.
Reply
ziddina says:
May 21, 2015 at 11:34 am
Good points. You’d think they’d learn from the Baptists & have the sisters do bake sales for money, instead of trying to rob ice cream from small children…
Reply
alanv says:
May 21, 2015 at 8:42 am
When I was a witness I used to think the magazines were actually good value. This was when there was a fixed contribution cost. What I completely forgot is that they were not just making a small profit on one magazine, but that profit was times millions of magazines. In fact one new magazine per week in those days. All this with virtually free labour added up to a massive amount of money every year.
Reply
David says:
May 21, 2015 at 8:44 am
This organisation just cares about its own aims without realising the great damage cause to people. They are free to practice religion but when a person decide to follow a different path must suffer a huge injustice.
Encouraging young children to get baptized shows a complete lack of love and decency. They know how a life of a young person can be completely destroyed if he/she decides with maturity that no longer agree with jw.org ideas.
They incourage to COMPLETELY ignore that such a person even exists.
The primary focus for them is numbers, grow even at the cost of innocent lifes. Shame on you GB.
Reply
ScotWm says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:23 am
What a dilemma! How to squeeze even more money out of cult members who are, for the most part, lower middle class.
Ever since the 1940s, Watchtower leaders ruled out higher education because the end of the world would come long before graduation. Later, higher education was described as a worldly cesspool that would strip impressionable young witnesses of their Watchtower bible trained consciences. Now that the worldwide witnessing is producing converts largely located in very poor countries, the billion dollar New York real estate windfall will not last very long.
While I would never advocate joining a cult based on the hallucinations of Ellen G. White, it is obvious that the Seventh Day Adventists long ago took the necessary steps to insure their financial future. Rather than continually threaten its followers with eminent destruction, Watchtower leaders should have created institutions of higher learning. The graduates of these schools could have earned much more money and contributed accordingly to the so called world wide work.
Here is one example of how higher education and religious indoctrination can work together:
“Does my family have to be Adventist for my child to attend an Adventist school? Absolutely not, though you and your child will gain the most benefit from Adventist education if you are a Christian or at least sympathetic with Christian beliefs.”
http://adventisteducation.org/about/adventist_education/faq
Reply
Simon Kestral says:
May 21, 2015 at 10:35 am
@ScotWm, WT has opposed university education ever since Fred Franz dropped out of college in 1913. His influence has shaped WT policy for 100 years now.
At the first circuit assembly I ever attended they interviewed a young man who dropped out of college. He was so happy to escape the worldly influence of college and give more time to WT. And his “brothers” were so proud of him! Another disciple of Fred Franz …
WT says they need people who have university degrees. But they’re not willing to grow their own. They think enough pre-educated “worldly” people will join WT and provide the needed skills. YOU UNEDUCATED PUBLISHERS JUST NEED TO PREACH MORE AND BRING THEM IN!
The hypocrisy is mind boggling.
Reply
ziddina says:
May 21, 2015 at 11:41 am
Simon Kestral wrote: “WT has opposed university education ever since Fred Franz dropped out of college in 1913. His influence has shaped WT policy for 100 years now.”
I think it goes all the way back to Charles Taze Russell, who never attended high school, let alone college. In forewords to his “Studies in the Scriptures” books, he warns against even attending HIGH SCHOOL, as well as college.
I suspect his envy & distrust of those better-educated than he, led to the establishment of that long-running antipathy towards higher education, which the Watchtower Society foolishly carries on to this day.
Reply
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 21, 2015 at 10:55 am
“plastic wizard toys are Satanic”!!!!! It seems Satan is becoming everything among Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The new Watchtower Magazine (study edition) says: “The religious, political, and commercial elements of this world—including their information channels—are under the influence of “the god of this system of things,” Satan the Devil. (2 Cor. 4:4; 1 John 5:19)”!!!!!
Reply
danman says:
May 21, 2015 at 12:03 pm
Growing up a jw in the years 1948-1981. Child publisher giving my own presentations from door to door at age 5. Living every aspect of a good jw life publisher, servant, pioneer, serve were the need was great, elder, assembly parts, oversee large departments at assemblies, actor in district convention dramas, I can lay claim to enough experience to say the following:
The “Truth” ain’t what it used to be.! The almost sacrosanct pride I (we) had as regards the glaring difference between ‘Babylon the Great’ (all other religions) and Jehovah God’s earthly organization was a source of strength to the convictions held.
•No overt collection of funds just a simple contribution box. Vs: Evil Christendoms collection plates and direct solicitations via cash, credit, or pledges. Now Jehovah seems to be allowing his organization full license to do exactly the same.
•No catchy music programs, tv broadcasts, cartoons, or boasting about structures or properties. Jehovah now allowing all of the former no-no’s. Has Jehovah’s willingness to accept these worldly modern methods, changed? Or is it the men at the helm of this obviously human run organization?
•No higher education. I mean to the point of restricting privileges for those who chose to attend college. Now my own nephew bethelite was offered and accepted a fully paid scholarship by the Watchtower to attend college and obtain his lawyers license. Extracting every ounce of his time and hard efforts after attaining his credential. Using my relatives good nature and life’s talents to further their religious desires. Yet they still try to influence the rank and file jw to avoid such higher education so as to further their grunt work in the local congregations. Talk about a clergy laity class, well hidden it may be, we who know can see through their chicanery.
I have almost an endless list to proceed with, but this has got me started.
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JJ says:
May 22, 2015 at 5:18 am
Great points!
I met Judah Schroeder(?) at Columbia University and he told me face-to-face that he was enjoying a fully Watchtower funded educated there. This was about ten years ago. He was taking a degree in Public Relations. Judah is the son of the now deceased Governing Body member, Ben Schroeder. Judah was famous for being one of the few children who grew up at Bethel. Rank does have its privileges.
Until your comment I never really put the clergy/laity part of this religion together. But there it is.
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John Baptist says:
May 21, 2015 at 1:03 pm
Now does this mean I might have to give up my Good Humor route due to possible lost sales? Lol What a complete mental insanity!
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Mitch Jensen says:
May 21, 2015 at 1:34 pm
“The video represents the latest specimen in a relentless stream of propaganda material targeting children. The “Become Jehovah’s Friend” series first launched in 2012 with a video aimed at guilt-tripping kids into believing that plastic wizard toys are Satanic. Then, more recently, another cartoon has shown Caleb and Sophia essentially being threatened with death if they don’t pay attention at meetings.”
Author’s Words
There’s no escaping the guilt, Cedars is too young to remember all the guilt and fear mongering kids prior to 1975 dealt with. Do you have any ideas how bad we kids had things? We were told all our friends at school 1st to 4th grades at the Woodland Hills,California and Dodger Stadium and of course our regular Meeting that focused on “Stay Alive till 75!”.
Cedars, is there any way we can stop the bleeding before these children are ruined? Is the EU more progressive, are they able to see through the ruse put on by a religion that does nothing to make the world a better place? How can we get their tax-exempt status revoked, what grassroots movements can a army of Kingdom Hall lurkers do to stop the madness? Unbelievable how children have not right to a little treat after enduring the Tuesday Night Guilt Meet! Very good writing and coverage, how do we change them?
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Mitch Jensen says:
May 21, 2015 at 1:38 pm
We were told all our friends were going to be “foods for the birds as their corpses lay rotting through the street”. Than one of the Watchtower guys actually said “Jehovah will use anti-matter to clean up all these bodies because only a million to clean up billions of bodies!” That’s the rat crap kids growing up in the 1950s to late 1960s endured, we are the “generation of fear”, the Watchtower Society is losing it’s ability to beat the drums of fear, their really sick demons!
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johnamos says:
May 21, 2015 at 1:44 pm
I couldn’t help but notice the following from this website while watching the video:
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
****Donate*****
all major credit cards
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anonymous says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:26 pm
@johnamos, do you think it’s wrong to accept donations then? I noticed in Stephen Lett’s talk when he was talking about those brothers that moved a lady’s shed back onto the foundation that when she offered them money that they didn’t turn it down.
Also, johnamos, there’s a huge difference between donating to someone from the heart and being coerced to do it because “God sees it if you don’t donate”.
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Melka says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm
And to add to this, I actually value this website and think it’s a big reason why a lot of people wake up. Mr. Cedars is contributing to the cause we’re all invested in, which is trying to wake people up, by bringing light to the despicable ways of the Watchtower. And that takes time. And in case you don’t know, it costs money. He is fully in his rights to let people know that it costs money, and if people donate, that means they believe in him and what he has to say, and they want to make sure he can continue to contribute. I personally think Cedars website puts out the best information, so I for one think we need him desperately. And I actually want people to wake up. I would look up Peter Gregersons role in helping Ray Franz write Crisis of Conscience if I was you. He paid Ray Franz a weekly salary so that he could write his book. Ray Franz obviously took the money, otherwise maybe he couldn’t produce that extremely important book. Without help, who knows what would have happened. Donating and cashing in are two vastly opposite things.
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Cedars says:
May 22, 2015 at 12:00 am
Do we have a donate button? Yes – as do many exJW sites. Do I make videos telling people to donate, and telling them it is their responsibility before God to do so? No. Do I make cartoons coercing kids to give me their ice cream money? No. I just let people contribute towards my work if they feel so inclined without prodding or begging.
I trust I have reassured you that this website is not comparable with the authoritarian, family-decimating, mind-controlling cult it critiques.
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Wanderer says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:16 am
jw.org looks and sounds like a shiny new version of the American tele-evangelists from the 80’s and 90’s!
They didn’t directly coerce people into donating either, they quoted scriptures, just as Mr. Lett does, then the money from the poor came rolling in. The tele-evangelists didn’t stoop so low that they had cartoons aimed at extracting pocket money from children.
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Charles Costante says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:32 pm
“Scrap paper would be no problem for JWs, there must be
thousands of tons of obsolete books out there that are just an embarrassment to them.”
Nice one, Ted! (LOL)
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johnny blaze says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm
Leave it in jehovah’s hands. ……he will provide. ………don’t hold your breath. ….
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Grace says:
May 21, 2015 at 2:55 pm
Who ever put this piece of propaganda together didn’t think it through. Instead of putting the pictures of the buildings & more buildings like high-rises (reminding me of the picture of satan tempting Jesus with all the kingdoms of the world), they could have put pictures of something that looked like a 3rd world country going from meeting in the hot sun to having a dwelling. It shows where there heart is. Not on helping those in need but expanding the real estate empire.
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Pickled brain says:
May 21, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@johnamos. HMmmm!!’ How About DONATING to a Good Cause Instead of Donating to The GB who are Paying Out TENS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS in CHILD ABUSE CASES & LUXURIOUS BUILDINGS & OVERSTAFFED HQ& WHO BREAK UP FAMILIES by SHUNNING if Someone DARES to Question the GB on Continuous FAILED PROPHECIES!!!
What’s wrong with Donating to Cedars who is trying to Awaken JWs up & Save them from WASTING Their Lives & also from Helping New Ones from making the mistake of getting Baptised!!
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Everyday Explorer says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:40 pm
Really like the incisiveness of your point, Grace. Fantastically nailed another absurdity of that obscenely blatant video. Respect.
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rob says:
May 21, 2015 at 3:04 pm
I find it immensely repugnant when they say “give to Jehovah” when in fact people are simply donating to a cash hungry organization. I also find it irritating when someone comes up to me and wants me to return to the meetings and says “come back to Jehovah” or “don’t leave Jehovah”.
When did the watchtower become Jehovah? Why do otherwise intelligent people equate a religion with God?
This religion has nothing but failed predictions and pharasaic rules and now they shamelessy want money from children.
And child baptism? Eight or nine years old? What is next? Maybe they will start asking the rank and file to pay admission to enter the kingdom halls or pay a fee to attend assemblies. Sad thing is that many would actually pay.
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johnny blaze says:
May 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Just like apple….if one feels one is putting a good product out there you feel compelled to get involved and invest…….but if you never put your money in market no one would know………wait…….Jehovah will know……….keep up the good fight …….Thx…..Lloyd. …
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Ohforgoodnesssake says:
May 21, 2015 at 3:08 pm
This actually made me cry with sadness. I really need to show this to someone as a stand alone link or from the JW.org webpage. Is there a way of getting this link. Thanks in advance.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 21, 2015 at 3:27 pm
This video is sick.
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Thinking of leaving says:
May 21, 2015 at 4:24 pm
That just inspires me to go and get some ice cram in my tight pants. Yeah you rock tight pants and ice cream you rock!!!!
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Ariel says:
May 21, 2015 at 5:44 pm
I have never been and never will be a JW. I do have inlaws that are heavily involved in this organization. They have been pushed down and deprived of lifes joys because of the guilt ridden sermons and publications that are a weekly burden to the flock.
I wonder, at what point do they, ( the flock ) realize that they have been taken as fools?
When children become a source of income to a belief that is beyond their own comprehension, then it is apparent that understanding does not equate to true worship.
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Amy says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:25 pm
I will never forget when I was a very young child, maybe 5 or 6, in the late 70’s… I had a single nickel and went to put it in the contribution box after the meeting. An elder came to me and asked me, “Is that all you got?” I remember feeling so ashamed and embarrassed because that really was all I had! He proceeded to lecture me about the widow who gave everything she had. I wonder what the hell he expected me to do? I was five years old for God’s sake!
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Charles Costante says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:02 am
Amy, I’m so outraged I want to laugh! Wouldn’t you love to go back to that scenario as an adult and tell him to shove the nickel up his nostril!
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Searcher says:
May 22, 2015 at 8:53 am
I’d like to tell him to put somewhere else. ;)
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Charles Costante says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:48 am
You weren’t thinking ‘ear hole’ were you, Searcher?!!! (LOL)
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ruben alavares says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:28 pm
Ya lo dije antes y lo reitero:
El Puerco Gobernante no tiene madre!
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Governing Body of the earthlings says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:57 am
PROCLAMATION OF JUDGEMENT!
To the governing body of the Watchtower Witnesses:
We hereby announce that the Watchtower GB – after carefully investigation among Gods earthlings – are excluded from the future human family until sincere regrets is shown. The reason for our decision is unchristian behavior for a long period without any signs of remorse.
This judgement can not be reversed before a period of minimum six – 6 – months has gone, and the criterias of a possible resumption can only be reconcidered if the 7 members of the GB have called us three – 3 – times a week on our phone-meetings, without saying a word for 45 minutes – for this half year period.
A sign of resumption that also weigh heavily concidering reuptake in the human family should be that they only eat pooridge in this half year period and that the money freed from the loss of expensive food – AND full stop in all overseas travelling – is given to JW Surwey.
The governing buddy of the human family- judicial commitee. Mr. Crazy Diamond.
PS. If any of the GB’s is seen with an icecream, the punishing period will be expanded for further six months.
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Bryan linkoski says:
May 22, 2015 at 3:37 am
It’s baffling sometimes seeing the nonsense that the Governing body approves as spiritual food!! It’s saddens me to see their weary sheep eating it up. If they are the annointed and have Jehovahs blessing then I am going to sprout wings and fly to heaven. Guezz!!! Lloyd, keep up the great reporting.
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Bad Penny says:
May 22, 2015 at 4:48 am
Another video that makes me so angry!
When the Society is purchasing million pound property on the Menai Straits, Bangor, Wales, U.K. for ‘translation units’, and the G.B. are SO proud to wear their luxury watches and swan about in their handmade suits – HOW CAN THEY SLEEP AT NIGHTS!
The children of Jehovah’s Witnesses are deprived of so many things. Fellowship with ‘worldly’ friends, no sporting activity outside school hours, no birthdays, and now no ice cream.
WATCHTOWER YOUR GREED MAKES ME SICK.
I hate what you have done to innocent peoples lives and pray with all my heart to the Most High God that he will act soon to put an end to all this cruelty.
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Newer Comments →
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Bad Penny says:
May 22, 2015 at 4:54 am
Oh, and of course, remember at conventions when the letters have been read out from little children who have donated their meagre amounts of pocket money to the Society because THEY can find a better use for it.
Followed by the aahs and the sniggers from the audience.
Sick, sick, sick!
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Charles Costante says:
May 22, 2015 at 5:18 am
“……… Followed by the aahs and the sniggers from the audience.”
Some sniggered, Bad Penny?! How dared they?!!!!
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Ted says:
May 22, 2015 at 6:56 am
jW, kids are deprived of a normal childhood in so many
ways. A sister recounted to me, that when she began
studying, the conductor counselled her regarding her 7
year old daughters playmate. Claiming the little girl was
“Bad association” ( The only reason given, the little girl wasn’t
a JW,). The study conductor eventually became an elder,
the sister eventually left the org.
Repugnant teachings like that, isolate JW, children, from
other kids, their schooldays are not the “Happiest days of
their life”. My own children couldn’t wait to leave
school and were not interested in further education. It’s
happening all over again now with some of my grandchildren.
That’s the legacy of this foul religion.
It’s too late now, but I deeply regret depriving my two children
of a birthday. party. What utter rubbish to claim its “Creature
Worship”, and worship belongs only to JHVH. Who would want
to worship a god, so mean spirited as to begrudge a child one
special day? If God exists it’s an insult to him.
One thing the children are not deprived of is “Discipline”, slaps
and constant cult indoctrination, drilled in with guilt and fear.
Childhood is fleeting they’re adults before you realise it.
Don’t rob them and yourself , of an important and wonderful
phase of their life.
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David says:
May 22, 2015 at 8:02 am
According to this video the only recipient for giving is jw.org.
Christians have to amass properties over properties.
When Paul preached he went to public places with is feet and his mouth.
Jesus has taught a completely different story. But he was called an apostate. Truth lovers are called apostates.
Luke 14:13
But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
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Pickled brain says:
May 22, 2015 at 8:54 am
MATTHEW 19v21 …Mr STEPHEN LETTS
GO SELL YOUR BELONGINGS & GIVE TO THE POOR!!!
STOP Quoting The Mosaic Law & Old Testament about the Tabernacle. CHRIST Abolished the LAW!!
As Paul said at Acts17v24 .., God does not dwell in HANDMADE Temples . Paul, CHRIST & the Apostles NEVER Encouraged Money to be Spent on BUILDINGS!!! Jesus& Paul had NOWHERE to LAY their HEADS & Paul was a TENTMAKER while still being a Missionary so as not to be a Financial BURDEN on the Brothers!!
The Governing Body are NOT FOLLOWING CHRISTS EXAMPLE!!!
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Yvonne says:
May 22, 2015 at 11:10 am
I could not say it any better, Pickled brain.
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danman says:
May 22, 2015 at 9:02 am
What was striking about the ‘take the ice cream out of the child’s mouth’ video, was the use of jw.org logo instead of ‘Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses’ on the KH building signage.
Apparently the gov bod members realize just how much children are influenced by monikers or icons. They know children are very used to identifying with brand names. Every trick of slick advertising executives were utilized to make this as palatable to children as possible. What has happened to honoring Jehovah’s name? Replacing the controversial name with jw.org is now the norm. Kingdom Halls now featuring the hallmark on all outdoor KH signage.
Of course associating the almighty God with such blatant money grubbing tactics was probably an auspicious oversight on their part, but none the less shows just where their intent lies.
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David says:
May 22, 2015 at 10:11 am
They have realised that their specific interpretations have been and are wrong so they are changing approach.
They are trying to make the jw.org religion less strange and more similar to modern western word plastic products.
But they forgot that they have judged thousands of people sinners just because they did not agree with their flawed interpretations.
Their tricks will work for a short while.
“A lie cannot live.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Yvonne says:
May 22, 2015 at 11:14 am
It took me four years to get my family and friends not to call me a JW and now I am expected to walk into a building with JW.Org hanging on it. LOL I guess the laugh is on me. Thanks GB.
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Barb Moor says:
May 22, 2015 at 11:32 am
Oh, okay. So rough up the kids for their ice cream money? Okay, sure. But start up higher first, to set an example.
You can hassle my kids for their ice cream money only AFTER you tell the governing body to stop eating at restaurants and start flying coach. And take ice cream off the menu at all Bethel facilities. And the CO’s that travel, who suddenly don’t want home-cooked meals for lunch but prefer to go to a restaurant because it’s more “convenient”? Nope nope nope: sandwiches at the park. Parents can kiss their Starbucks visits goodbye (not just the out-in-circus ones but ALL their Starbucks trips) because dropping a minimum of $5 on a coffee is five times Sophie’s ice cream money. Let’s get those dollars moving!!
Only AFTER everyone else gets rid of their goodies can they start guilting kids for ice cream money.
No. Wait. My kids (my theoretical ones anyway as I’m not a mom) will never be guilted this way. There is so much CRAP in this world that all kids put up with (abusive parents, scary news, bullies, poverty, etc), and add to that the bullsh$$ JW kids have to deal with (no friends, no fun, no toys and now no ICE CREAM?): I think everybody needs more damn ice cream, not less. How dare they?
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Barb Moor says:
May 22, 2015 at 11:45 am
Let’s play a game: what’s next for the WT to take from children?
Sophie gets her doll taken away and sold on Ebay: the money goes to the WT, and Sophie can glue together some popsicle sticks to make a stick figure doll. Wait, no popsicles!
Caleb can get rid of his bat and glove and sell those too: he can spend more time polishing his meeting shoes.
And pets: euthanize the dogs and cats that might be the family pet! Save money for the WT that would have been spent on kibbles and bits! Who needs to cuddle a pet when they can hug their new grey bibles. I actually think that WT producing Caleb and Sophia dolls WILL happen, and soon!
Alas, the possible money headed WT way through the guilt channels is endless: they can find a way to discourage library books, swim lessons, gymnastics, piano lessons, trips to the park, etc. It will come.
The irony is that WT used to encourage recreation with a family in appropriate measures. Now, by dismissing the ice cream, they are going to go further. Makes the Amish look more fun.
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Pickled brain says:
May 22, 2015 at 12:07 pm
@ Yvonne . Thank you for your agreement on my comment. I hope JWs being curious logging on to this site MIGHT ,JUST MIGHT think about the Scriptural Reasoning I mentioned & see the GB only quote scripture out of context.
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Barb, there will be plenty of time for the kids to play sports in the new world and all the ice cream they want in between cleaning up all the dead bodies.
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Pickled brain says:
May 22, 2015 at 12:54 pm
@Anonymous. What is IRONIC is the GB advise us not to watch Violent TV Programs or Play Violent Videos But THE OLD TESTAMENT is the MOST VIOLENT BOOK I HAVE READ with Beheadings, MASS KILLING of Men ,WOMEN &CHILDREN & this is With JEHOVAHs BLESSINGS to WIPE OUT the MOABITES,EDOMITES, AMMONITES & Every Nation Roundabout!! Literally Hundreds of Thousands of people!! Then Every JW CHILD WILL WITNESS the MASS SLAUGHTER of BILLIONS of Women & CHILDREN at Armageddon & then have to BURY The ROTTING Bodies!!! & WHAT ABOUT ALL The RUBBLE left by the Destroyed BUILDINGS as shown on front of May 1st Public Edition of the Watchtower!! It’s going to Take ages to Clear this up !! & then at the same time Planting Seeds for Food to Grow so we won’t STARVE!!Guess Playing with the LIONs & Dolphins will have to wait a while!!! HOPE I CAN HAVE an ICE CREAM while I am clearing up the bodies of that is Allowed in the NEW SCROLLS to be Opened???
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 2:13 pm
@Pickled brain, I forgot. In order to make ice cream, you need cows and where are all the Witnesses going to have time to take care of all the cows or is Jehovah going to kill all the cows too? Somebody has to take care of those cows if anybody’s going to get some ice cream!!! I guess Jehovah is just going to kill all the farmers who take care of the cows but he’ll leave all the cows for the ice cream then but where are they going to have time to dispose of all those dead bodies if they have to take care of the cows for the ice cream? I guess if the kids want some ice cream, they’d better get it now before Armageddon breaks out, if they want some ice cream because who knows what’s going to happen in the new world. They might never get another ice cream cone but yeah, they can cuddle with the panda bears instead.
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 2:40 pm
But wait! I don’t think Panda Bears live here in my area. The kids will have to be content to cuddle with the other kids of bears and mountain lions unless they can travel to where all the panda bears are living. Geez, my head can’t handle all the stress of it. If I was the kids in the Organization, I’d just take that dollar bill and get myself an ice cream now and forget about building another translating building which costs one million or more dollars, which they can’t afford anyway. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!!
Innocent Son says:
May 22, 2015 at 12:41 pm
This so called Christian Organisation is showing Its true colours, putting pressure on the youngest and most vulnerable to prop up with their pocket money their rotten organisation! Sick, Sick, Sick.
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tim3l0rd says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:11 pm
In a recent interview Cedars references his list of “nine grievances”. I’ve searched this site and have not been able to find them explicitly listed. Are they listed somewhere? I’m trying to get through to my wife.
Thanks.
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Cedars says:
May 22, 2015 at 1:16 pm
Hi tim3l0rd, here is an old forum post where I discuss them…
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/226954/my-nine-grievances-against-society-from-before-had-ever-visited-single-apostate-website?size=5&page=1
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Dean says:
May 22, 2015 at 2:59 pm
The more iam away from this cult the more i see information what i once saw as the truth being nothing but guilt,indoctrination and fear..this is very scary to see….and when its said in the talk hear breaking a young ones wish for baptism can damage ones spirituality,but thats even if the parents don’t agree..hang on so “it” the watchtower(governing body)are overriding a parents decision and yet he says its not my personal view but the watchtowers..hmm hang on ye right!!!..this is so scary to hear and yet many years back if you was young or to young as to put it you were told to leave things for a while then apply for baptism later,iam so glad i now see things clearer …
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Alberto says:
May 22, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Si el Cuerpo Gobernante quiere mas dinero. Deberian por empezar una politica de abstinencia es decir ser humildes como lo fue Jesucristo… Como quieren mas dinero, cuando viven en un apartamento de lujo en un edificio que vales mas de $3 millones de dolares.Y digo esto por que trabajo en Bethel, como quieren mas dinero si traen relojes con valor de mas de $25 mil dolares marca Rolex.Como piden mas dinero si aqui es Estados Unidos los Super Intendentes de Circuito manejan autos Buick 2014-2015 con valor de $ 40 mil dolares.. Asi que mi punto es el siguiente, no mas donaciones hasta que demuestren Humildad y vivan sencillamente como dicen que hay que vivir…
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rikos says:
May 22, 2015 at 4:41 pm
The watchtower uses the same methods just like the big corporation. The future customers are the children they target the children now for the future customers. The watchtower is not interesting for the elderly brothers only for their money and properties. The children are the future market for the watchtower.
The old generation knows too much about the watchtowers past, but the new generation doesn’t know anything and their no interesting about Russell, and Rutherford. In few years to be a Jehovah witnesses will be intertamen club. Words like these will be disappearing from JW vocabulary. The new system, life forever, no more sicknesses, no deaf, no blind, and similar. The thinks the old generation consider as unclean and compromise. For The new generation will be modest and normal. Blood transfusion will be on your conciseness. Pimerital sex will be common sense.
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Pickled brain says:
May 22, 2015 at 6:11 pm
@Anonymous. Like you its when you look at the nuts & bolts & the Logic or Really the Illogical rationale of what the GB infer about the Paradise & you realise NONE OF IT ADDS UP!!!
PARADISE in the Bible occurs in 3 Places & in the Base Languages is referring to Heaven as Russell& Rutherford in the years 1879 to1934 in All the OLD Books & Watchtowers said the GREAT CROWD were a Lesser Class of Spiritual Being going to Heaven which is Admitted in the Proclaimers book. Probably will be NEW LIGHT in a Few Years ??!!
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anonymous says:
May 22, 2015 at 7:53 pm
I kind of see this latest cartoon for kids like the cartoons kids see on television with commercials only it works opposite as tv cartoons work. The parents would like to let the kids watch the cartoons on tv but the kids then want all the toys that the cartoon is advertising and the kids will pester and pester until they get the toys advertised. With JW cartoons, when the kids watch them, they are made to feel guilty if they spend any of their allowance money on themselves and they are made to feel their allowances are supposed to go to buy buildings for the Society instead.
The only way I can see this working for the parents is to give the kids two allowances, one for the kid and one for the building work of the Society. Either that, or split the poor kid’s allowance in half, half for the kid and half for the Society.
Either way, it’s depressing.
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Marius says:
May 22, 2015 at 9:58 pm
Before seeing this, I had just watched the “divided household” video on JW.org – I can’t look it up right now, but basically it’s about this teenager boy whose dad isn’t a JW and now he’s torn between him and “Jehovah”. The gist of it: Daddy will try to get you into competitive sports and make you go to college and birthday parties, but you must stand firm! Just tell him that being with “Jehovah” has already made you reject the advances of drug pushers and, even worse, girls and he’ll be okay with that.
But this is really on a new level. Now we’re really talking about kids and making them feel guilty just for spending miniscule amounts of money for their own enjoyment.
Where in the bible does God ever want to you donate money to any kind of organisation?
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:23 am
@Lloyd, I have been coming here now for about a year and am wondering how does a person become a “member” and what all is involved. I have looked over the web site and I don’t see a link for that. Thanks.
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 5:18 am
This young girl just posted her very brave video yesterday and it has over 2,000 views and everyone should watch it and share if possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RDvT_gYq-ls
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Ted says:
May 23, 2015 at 7:52 am
@Anonymous, Many thanks for the link to this young girls
You Tube video.
She gives an honest and accurate account of the emotional
damage this so called religion causes, and of the false
“Conditional” love that exists therein.
Anyone studying with the witnesses and thinking of getting
baptised, I would recommend they watch this video before
coming completely involved.
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James Broughton says:
May 23, 2015 at 8:00 am
What a contrast to the story in Mark 6:30-44 where Jesus took the voluntary offering of a small boy which was used to bless thousands of others. Jesus welcomed children into the Church and there was no hint of their being brainwashed into servile submission.
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anonymous says:
May 23, 2015 at 10:01 am
I was just at the grocery store and when I was going up the the check-out counter there was a small boy about 2-1/2 years old and he was screaming and crying his head off and reaching at the freezer where the store has the ice cream bars which is located just in front of the check-out counter and his parents were pushing him in the cart, past the freezer and he was crying so hard and reaching out towards that freezer so hard that it was heart breaking for me when his parents wouldn’t give in and buy him an ice cream bar. They were probably trying to teach him a lesson in that he can’t have every thing that he wants but it made me think of that new cartoon the Society is putting out in asking kids to donate their ice cream money for building new Kingdom Halls.
The Society must be really desperate for money if they are needing kids to empty their piggy banks and give their change to them. How they must think is that there’s probably at least one million kids in the “truth” and if each of those one million kids donated just one dollar, it adds up to 1 million dollars which is a good chunk of money and if they donated one dollar every week, that’s 52 million dollars a year which is a REALLY GOOD CHUNK OF CHANGE.
If 8 million Witnesses donated just one dollar, it would add up to 8 million dollars and I’d bet my life that those 8 million dollars could build every single Kingdom Hall that is needed in Africa. That one dollar from 8 million Witnesses would only need to be a one time donation and those Kingdom Halls would be paid off.
Our congregation had a visitor from Africa a couple years ago and he gave a talk in our Kingdom Hall and he showed slides of his Kingdom Hall back in Africa and he told our congregation that for $2,000.00 they could build a nice Kingdom Hall and that day that he gave that talk (Saturday afternoon), our congregation got together $2,000.00 to send it back with him to Africa. That is how cheap it is to build a Kingdom Hall in Africa. But, I wondered at the time, why did he have to come to our congregation and beg for money for a Kingdom Hall in the first place when every letter begging for more money is to build all those needed Kingdom Halls in poor areas? It made me wonder if it was a scam. The reason he came to our Kingdom Hall is because he is good friends with one of our elders who came from Africa.
When those men of the Governing Body are out there giving talks this summer at the District Conventions, when they look out into the audience, all they must see sitting in those seats is dollar bill signs.
Reply
Wanderer says:
May 23, 2015 at 5:05 pm
Also add into the “build Kingdom Halls in third world countries” fund, all of the established, built labour free and paid for by local congregations, Kingdom Halls now being sold.
My parents told me their hall is being sold and they will have to drive to a more distant hall where there will be 3 congregations in the hall. Then they will sell off all of the spare halls, so the money can go to the poor countries to build halls. They also said that the society showed them a video on how happy the brothers in Africa are when they have their own hall. A blatant pull on the heart strings which the Org are masters at. After watching the video the local congregations voted unanimously in selling off as many halls as possible, halls that THEY built and paid for!
If someone in the Org. could release to Cedars how many millions of dollars they have paid out in court cases worldwide over the last 5 years it would really be an eye opener for anyone with doubts. I noticed Mr Lett didn’t have a slick graph in his begging talk to show how much of an increase The Society are having in out of court settlements.
Reply
Otto Atlantis says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:47 pm
Hey Cedars or whatever your name is today. I finally figured out why people hate you. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a child molester yourself. Keep contemplating suicide you atheist freak!!!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:55 pm
@Otto Atlantis !! WOW I CAN FEEL THE LOVE OOZING OUT OF YOU???
May I HUMBLY ASK You … Dear OTTO … Are you by any chance an ELDER in the JW Organisation???
Reply
Grace says:
May 23, 2015 at 3:38 pm
@Otto Atlantis,
Beware of what you wish for. Your words may come back & bite you personally.
Reply
Zeus says:
May 23, 2015 at 3:54 pm
I guess a rational reply from an irrationalist would be too much to ask.
Go back under your bridge, troll.
Reply
danman says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:09 pm
The name Otto went almost into total obscurity at least 50-100 years ago.
Not to mention the existence of the ancient mythical city of Atlantis has never been found.
So one can conclude that any utterances coming from someone taking those names can essentially be ignored, as untimely and basically irrelevant. Or one could identify this poster as a completely fictional character.
Reply
Wanderer says:
May 23, 2015 at 5:16 pm
What a wonderfully warm christian post.
I wonder if off of the top of your head you could tell me about the fruits of the spirit?
I have been in a congregation with child molesters and nobody had a clue, because the Elders didn’t want anyone to know. Apparently not bringing reproach on Jehovahs name is more important than protecting children. Only after the abused kids became adults and prosecuted them (1 elder 2 MS) did we find out.
What a loving organisation you are in.
Reply
Wanderer says:
May 23, 2015 at 5:16 pm
What a wonderfully warm christian post.
I wonder if off of the top of your head you could tell me about the fruits of the spirit?
I have been in a congregation with child molesters and nobody had a clue, because the Elders didn’t want anyone to know. Apparently not bringing reproach on Jehovahs name is more important than protecting children. Only after the abused kids became adults and prosecuted them (1 elder 2 MS) did we find out.
What a loving organisation you are in.
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Cedars says:
May 23, 2015 at 11:21 pm
Ladies and gentleman… a Cedars-hater. One of the more eloquent ones… ;)
I’m glad that, in this particular comment, he’s at least being open about the religious bigotry behind his hatred.
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Wanderer says:
May 23, 2015 at 11:36 pm
@cedars don’t let religious fanatics like otto Atlantis get you down. This website has helped me finally become comfortable in my decision to leave the org even having left quite a few years ago. It was strange that even though I didn’t believe any more and faded, I still had doubts every now and again, I guess that a lifetime of indoctrination takes some time to wear off. Thank you again.
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JJ says:
May 26, 2015 at 9:13 am
Dear Otto Atlantis,
You’ve just figured it out now why people hate John Cedars?!? How long has this important problem perplexed you??? Just who are these people that hate Cedars? Why would you say that he is a child molester? Do you encourage other people to commit suicide? Do you slander all Atheisists or do other genders, races, beliefs (or non-belief systems) also fall under your extremely courageous attacks???
Reply
Barb Moor says:
May 23, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Who hates Cedars (Lloyd)? Hmm. Something about the post above seems questionable. Do you think Tight Pants Tony is online?
At least he didn’t compare Cedars to Hitler. That’s usually the way an ad hominem attack ends.
Reply
da' says:
May 24, 2015 at 6:37 am
Don’t know about you but im still struggling with the suggestion that 9 year olds should be baptized. Why don’t we just also recommend they get married or drink alcohol or eat all the sugar and fat they can consume or hand over the keys to the family car. Why not ? The results would all be the same DISASTERIOUS !!!!! A disaster for all of that child’s family and friends when he or she is either df or disassociates themselves because a 9 year old CHILD is not mentally , emotionally or physically capable of making such a lifelong commitment, to anyone or anything . To suggest such a thing is downright irresponsible. Anyone remember how old Jesus was when he presented himself for baptism ? Seriously, im still shaking my head in disbelief
Reply
Grace says:
May 24, 2015 at 3:37 pm
@da’,
Well said. The GB are above the Bible examples, didn’t you know that. They have replaced Jesus as the role models for today.
Reply
Bad Penny says:
May 24, 2015 at 4:45 pm
On child baptism –
How many of these children really understand what they are doing?
It is usually a ‘please Mommy and Daddy’ thing at such an early age (I have heard of youngsters as young as five and six getting baptised).
The parents are, of course, then held up as fine examples in the congregation, wearing their feathered cap with pride!
What this ultimately does is increase the number of publishers in the congregation which looks good on paper.
The reality is that the poor kids will be subject to ‘the wrath of Jehovah’ if they ever change their mind.
Unhappiness will inevitably result, and even suicide
in extreme cases.
Jesus showed the way, although he was well versed in the law by the age of twelve, he was not baptised till about 30 years of age.
Of course, the G.B. know better than Jesus don’t they??
Reply
Thomas Rakewell says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:46 am
This is just so sad.
Kids love ice cream. Kids SHOULD love ice cream (I mean, if a particular child doesn’t love ice cream that’s totally fair enough, but you get my point). The idea of some poor kid looking forward to their ice cream and then denying themselves that simple little thing and giving their pocket money anonymously to a wooden box at the back of a kingdom hall instead is just so sad. Imagine how that kid feels. They’re not happy, doing that. They want an ice cream! They know, deep down, that some imaginary goodwill from an invisible deity isn’t a substitute for that!
What’s shocking about this is how blatant it is though. I mean, this is directly asking for children to forgoe treats – things that make them happy – and to give up their money instead. It’s begging. That is literally what this video is doing. Everything about the saccharine world in this cartoon, the fact it’s a cartoon in the first place, the joyless message it conveys, everything, is just so, so hideously tragic.
This organisation needs to go down. It really does.
Reply
← Older Comments
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/cough-up-kids-watchtower-needs-your-ice-cream-money#comments
Cough up, kids – Watchtower needs your ice cream money!
avatar
Posted on May 21, 2015
A new Watchtower cartoon urges Witness kids to give up their pocket money
A new Watchtower cartoon urges Witness kids to give up their pocket money
As Jehovah’s Witnesses the world over continue to digest the latest “historic” JW Broadcasting episode, in which the Governing Body admits to having a shortfall in funds and asks Witnesses to give their “valuable things” to compensate, a video has emerged indicating that Stephen Lett and Co. even have their eyes on children’s ice cream money.
The video, which is intended to be shown during the 2015 series of Witness conventions, shows Sophia (from the “Become Jehovah’s Friend” cartoon series) day-dreaming about spending her pocket money on an ice cream while at the kingdom hall.
But when Sophia sees her mother putting money in the contribution box, her thoughts turn to kingdom halls, literature carts and bethel buildings, and she decides to forgo her ice cream and put her dollar in the contribution box for Watchtower’s “worldwide work” instead.
The video represents the latest specimen in a relentless stream of propaganda material targeting children. The “Become Jehovah’s Friend” series first launched in 2012 with a video aimed at guilt-tripping kids into believing that plastic wizard toys are Satanic. Then, more recently, another cartoon has shown Caleb and Sophia essentially being threatened with death if they don’t pay attention at meetings.
Masters at child indoctrination
The Governing Body must surely understand that, despite the launch of JW.org and the metropolitan witnessing initiative (i.e. literature carts), most adults in developed lands are simply not interested in joining a cult with a horrendous online reputation of failed prophecies, shunning, child abuse and refusal of certain medical treatments. Their only way around this is to focus on child indoctrination, making sure as many people raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses are retained as possible.
One way of doing this is by turning up the pressure for kids to get baptized as young as possible. After all, once a Witness child is baptized, he or she is essentially locked into the religion for life, and is not allowed to leave without facing the punishment of shunning by family members.
Misha Anouk over on JW Alumni has brilliantly covered some recent alarming comments made by Mark Sanderson during a public talk in Germany on May 9th. In his talk, Sanderson urged Witness parents to make sure their children are baptized as young as nine years old, telling his audience such a practice corresponds with the “viewpoint” of the Governing Body.
Going without an ice cream so that Watchtower can balance its books clearly pales into insignificance compared to the prospect of being shackled to a cult for life under threat of being estranged from your family. But at least by churning out such ill-advised and clearly exploitative child propaganda material the Governing Body is showing its true colors for those old enough to think for themselves.
Despite styling itself as “the faithful and discreet slave,” the Governing Body is proud to be taking ice cream money from the hands of young children, and has thus revealed itself to be just as cheap and shameless as any other tawdry group of televangelist swindlers.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/cough-up-kids-watchtower-needs-your-ice-cream-money#comments
Cough up, kids – Watchtower needs your ice cream money!
avatar
Posted on May 21, 2015
A new Watchtower cartoon urges Witness kids to give up their pocket money
A new Watchtower cartoon urges Witness kids to give up their pocket money
As Jehovah’s Witnesses the world over continue to digest the latest “historic” JW Broadcasting episode, in which the Governing Body admits to having a shortfall in funds and asks Witnesses to give their “valuable things” to compensate, a video has emerged indicating that Stephen Lett and Co. even have their eyes on children’s ice cream money.
The video, which is intended to be shown during the 2015 series of Witness conventions, shows Sophia (from the “Become Jehovah’s Friend” cartoon series) day-dreaming about spending her pocket money on an ice cream while at the kingdom hall.
But when Sophia sees her mother putting money in the contribution box, her thoughts turn to kingdom halls, literature carts and bethel buildings, and she decides to forgo her ice cream and put her dollar in the contribution box for Watchtower’s “worldwide work” instead.
The video represents the latest specimen in a relentless stream of propaganda material targeting children. The “Become Jehovah’s Friend” series first launched in 2012 with a video aimed at guilt-tripping kids into believing that plastic wizard toys are Satanic. Then, more recently, another cartoon has shown Caleb and Sophia essentially being threatened with death if they don’t pay attention at meetings.
Masters at child indoctrination
The Governing Body must surely understand that, despite the launch of JW.org and the metropolitan witnessing initiative (i.e. literature carts), most adults in developed lands are simply not interested in joining a cult with a horrendous online reputation of failed prophecies, shunning, child abuse and refusal of certain medical treatments. Their only way around this is to focus on child indoctrination, making sure as many people raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses are retained as possible.
One way of doing this is by turning up the pressure for kids to get baptized as young as possible. After all, once a Witness child is baptized, he or she is essentially locked into the religion for life, and is not allowed to leave without facing the punishment of shunning by family members.
Misha Anouk over on JW Alumni has brilliantly covered some recent alarming comments made by Mark Sanderson during a public talk in Germany on May 9th. In his talk, Sanderson urged Witness parents to make sure their children are baptized as young as nine years old, telling his audience such a practice corresponds with the “viewpoint” of the Governing Body.
Going without an ice cream so that Watchtower can balance its books clearly pales into insignificance compared to the prospect of being shackled to a cult for life under threat of being estranged from your family. But at least by churning out such ill-advised and clearly exploitative child propaganda material the Governing Body is showing its true colors for those old enough to think for themselves.
Despite styling itself as “the faithful and discreet slave,” the Governing Body is proud to be taking ice cream money from the hands of young children, and has thus revealed itself to be just as cheap and shameless as any other tawdry group of televangelist swindlers.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/cough-up-kids-watchtower-needs-your-ice-cream-money#comments
Newer Comments →
rusty says:
April 19, 2015 at 4:11 am
Unfortunately we will never see an apology because they would have to admit they were wrong, which would never happen.
Reply
JJ says:
April 20, 2015 at 4:28 am
How true!
I used to think it was just the local elders that I had to deal with that would never apologize. The ‘stink’ goes all the way to the head.
Reply
Charles Costante says:
April 19, 2015 at 4:42 am
It’s outrageous! They should be forced to apologise. I suppose the only thing they can plead is stupidity.
Reply
Isaac Harris says:
April 19, 2015 at 5:10 am
It be interesting if he tried to sue them over this. If the media reported on it, it might make others wonder if the Society had done this elsewhere.
I wish I still had the emails I received from scientists who were misquoted in the Creation Book. That could have been added to evidence for their deceptive practices. :)
Reply
Charles Costante says:
April 19, 2015 at 3:23 pm
I do hope they do sue, Isaac. The more they are exposed for the liars they are, the better!
Reply
dubonnet says:
April 19, 2015 at 5:14 am
Hi Cedar,
for electronique edition : english, french or spanish : it’s ok.
for paper format .pdf, today in english, yes change, but in french and spanish : NO
best regards
Reply
Ted says:
April 19, 2015 at 6:02 am
More deception and without the backing of the cited authority
namely Mr, Rama Singh.
Their greatest deception is that they are God’s Organisation
a claim that’s made without a shred of support or credibility
save the monotonous and continual repetition of it in their
publications.
“It would not be Impossible to prove with sufficient REPETITION
and a psychological understanding of the people concerned,
that a square is in fact a circle.”—Joseph Goebbels.
“The most brilliant propagandist techniques would yield no success
unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind. Constantly
and with unflagging attention, it must confine itself to a few points
and REPEAT them OVER and OVER ” — Adolph Hitler.h
Reply
Susan says:
April 19, 2015 at 6:32 am
The problem is that the damage had already been done. Millions of their followers had read the original deceptive quote, and barely anyone will ever learn about how their organization once again blatantly misquoted a scientist. Clearly their argument for creation is weak as they again resorted to twisting the truth to back up their faulty reasoning. As for an apology or a retraction, they are far too proud for that.
Reply
kat says:
April 19, 2015 at 7:17 am
the GB of the WT inc are deceptive and should have been sued, this seems to be a practise of theirs, I really hope some of those that have been misrepresented come forward, one can only hope. sickens me how this org gets away with so much poop!
Reply
John McAllister says:
April 19, 2015 at 7:41 am
Nice quote from the 2011 Yearbook, although in my copy it’s on page 13 not 9. Has there been some re-writing of this book going on?
Reply
Cedars says:
April 19, 2015 at 9:42 am
Well spotted John! I’ve fixed it! :)
Reply
airborne says:
April 19, 2015 at 9:35 am
Very interesting. Basically the GB lie ALL THE TIME.
Reply
Octavio says:
April 19, 2015 at 9:42 am
interestingly, in the Spanish version we still see the original text (at least until now). The GB body did not correct it yet. May be it will remain because they think that the latin community ignores this stuff.
Reply
Octavio says:
April 19, 2015 at 9:59 am
I have noticed that french and portugues versions of Awake still have the questioned text in page 3.
Reply
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
April 19, 2015 at 12:50 pm
Kinyarwanda version of Awake! we call in our language “Nimukanguke!” still has the questioned quotation, too ( http://wol.jw.org/rw/wol/d/r127/lp-yw/102015002 )
Let us hope Awake! writers will AWAKE! and remove the quotation even in my mother tongue. It is annoying!
Reply
John Baptist says:
April 19, 2015 at 10:11 am
Perhaps this man can sue for defamation of character?
And I wonder who is Gerard this other respected scientist?
Could Gerard be fictions?
When you go to college and your writing articles on the subjects your taking you ABSOLUTELY need to show where your quotes came from by showing references to that effect.
If you don’t then it is considered not a completed assignment and will adversely affect your grade.
So my question why does not the watchtower society adhere to these common sense and typical protocol’s?
This is a Billion dollar a year publishing company that should not be mis-quoting famed Scientists in order to push their own philosophies.
They are printing LIES!
Let me quote from the Bible yes you can verify it here at John 8:44 where it talks about the father of the LIE as being satan the devil.
So is this professed slave class really Gods sole channel on earth now if their lying in their publications like they have so many times?
According to their direct proclamations and failures of those things to come about and lying about what other renowned people say, one can only come to one conclusion and that is they ARE NOT GODS CHOSEN RELIGION!
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JBob says:
April 19, 2015 at 10:11 am
Good catch on the misquotes of living scientists, but you should also catch this group on misquotes of Early Christian Fathers, too.
Reply
Shelley says:
April 19, 2015 at 10:21 am
The audio copy has not been altered, so they haven’t even fully complied that that part of the request!!!!!!
Reply
Swallowtail says:
April 19, 2015 at 10:28 am
For a group that consistently tells you to be meek and humble they certainly are resistant to making a simple apology.
Reply
questionall451 says:
April 21, 2015 at 5:29 pm
They make such a big deal of their “humility” that it is shameful. I remember brothers at assemblies used to really lay it on thick during the prayers, “Ohhhh, deeeeeaar Jehooooooooovah! (*long pause*) We are nothing….nothing….but…dust!” I would be so second had embarrassed for them because it was so obviously phoney and artificial. Then afterward someone would always say something like, “Wasn’t that such a wonderful prayer? That brother must’ve been one of the anointed because they have such deeper love for God.” *Eye roll* Looks like some things will never change.
Reply
Swallowtail says:
April 22, 2015 at 3:42 pm
That is hilarious questionall451! “Secondhand embarrassed” is exactly right.
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John Henry Kurtz says:
April 19, 2015 at 11:41 am
A liar is sooner caught than a cripple…
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
April 19, 2015 at 12:29 pm
If they do not apologize in this case, I hope they will apologyize for having misquoted their god Jehovah in Jeramiah 5:8.
The verse used to read (Jeremiah 5:8) . . .Horses seized with sexual heat, having [strong] testicles, they have become. They neigh each one to the wife of his companion.
and in the Version 2013 of their Bible it reads (Jeremiah 5:8) . . .They are like eager, lustful horses, Each neighing after another man’s wife.
You see, they have removed “Strong testicles” from their god’s word. It/he/she was misquoted.
Reply
tiger123 says:
April 19, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Good article, solid information.
Thank you.
Reply
Bo Vestergaard says:
April 19, 2015 at 1:49 pm
Who is Gerard? Why are we not allowed to know his surname?
Reply
John Jarrett says:
April 19, 2015 at 2:10 pm
The “Gerard” they refer to is actually Gerard Hertel, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses (a fact they conveniently omit from the article). See this link for details:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/01/18/jehovahs-witness-publication-cites-professor-who-doubts-evolution-but-professor-says-he-was-unfairly-misquoted/
Reply
Gravedigger says:
April 19, 2015 at 2:48 pm
“Gerard” is Dr. Gerard Hertel and he was not misquoted–he is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He is a retired entomologist/dendrologist (bug/tree scientist) with the USDA forest service and adjunct faculty with West Chester University of Pennsylvania. He has published several (20 or so) peer-reviewed scientific papers. I found his last name in the spanish translation of the magazine, as WT had removed it from the English translation for some reason. I emailed him to confirm his identity and he confirmed he was the subject of the article. Link to his credentials: http://darwin.wcupa.edu/faculty/hertel/Main/HomePage
Reply
anonymous says:
April 19, 2015 at 2:00 pm
I don’t know how we all got here but here’s a simple example of how creatures adapt to their environment. If my cat is an indoor cat and doesn’t have to stay outside in the winter, she doesn’t develop a “winter” coat of fur. Animals who have to stay outdoors in the wintertime, develop a really thick coat of fur and as soon as the weather warms up, all the winter fur falls out. Many animals have 2 colors of fur, one color for winter and another color for summer. It all helps them to survive the environment. Animals who develop white fur in the winter and their 2nd coat is brown in the summer, makes them harder to be seen by their enemies. If polar bears lose all their ice and the temperatures warm up, they probably won’t have as thick of fur. Who can explain this, except that species adapt to their surroundings, which sounds like evolution to me.
Does the Watchtower ever bring up stuff like that? It’s always the simple answer that we couldn’t have evolved from a one-celled amoeba so evolution is just a theory and the Bible’s account has to be right but many people believe in God in that he made everything that evolved into what it is today. So, they can still believe in God and evolution.
I remember years ago, there was an article in the Awake on how if you put a live sponge in a blender and put it back in the water, the thing will glue itself back together and be alive and the very same animal. What is that, except evolution? Could any human be put in a blender and glue itself back together to be the same person they were before? I don’t think so.
So, if God was making us “perfect” in his image, why didn’t he make it so that if our bodies are put in a wood chipper, that afterwards, we could glue ourselves back together? It seems that the sponge is much more highly evolved then us humans but us humans take that live sponge and kill it and then use it to wash our floors with and use it make sponge paintings on the wall.
Most animals have better eye sight than humans. Some turtles live hundreds of years. Even clams can live to be 500 years old. Parrots can live 200 years. Some trees live thousands of years. Something’s amiss if a loving God made us to be lower than the sponge because we can’t be glued back together and with worse eye sight than almost any animal.
It would make more sense not to blame all that on a God.
Reply
Ted says:
April 19, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Anonymous, I’m gonna have nightmares tonight
at the thought of being put into a wood chipper
Reply
anonymous says:
April 19, 2015 at 4:26 pm
Ted, the Awake article about the sponge being blended, reminded me of the movie Fargo, which I will never watch again because of the wood chipper scene.
Reply
Innocent Son says:
April 19, 2015 at 2:50 pm
Nothing more than a P.R. exercise by the Governing Body, let’s call it damage limitation….! They won’t admit of course to being wrong, or dishonest, that could never happen, just that the ‘Light keeps getting brighter’
Reply
Ted says:
April 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm
One has to question the mindset of these writers. How do they
square a Christian conscience with deliberate deception ?
Mis-quoting sources, taking a couple of lines out of context from
a complete article, shifting punctuation about to give a different
meaning, etc etc.
They may fool the trusting but gullible JWs, but they must know
It’s fraudulent, dishonest journalism. It’s sheer pharisaical
hypocrisy to hold ordinary JWs, to such a high standard while
they lie through their teeth.
As for giving apologies, sometimes when backed into a corner
having made fools of themselves. through a failed prediction
they may do so. But it always comes with an angle attached.
“The errors are JHVHs way of refining us, of sifting out the
unfaithful.”
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Charles Costante says:
April 19, 2015 at 10:43 pm
“How do they square a Christian conscience with deliberate deception?”
Absolutely, Ted! They could never plead ignorance in a court of law because what they’ve done is so blatant. As I said earlier, the only thing they could plead is stupidity. They’ve done it for so long and got away with it, so why stop now? They’ve clearly forgotten we live in the Internet Age.
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H.K. Fauskanger says:
April 20, 2015 at 12:45 am
I notice that even the emended version of the Awake article still bears the date “January 2015″, though it has actually been doctored at a later date. There is no indication that anything has been omitted or altered. Quite on the contrary, I believe they have very skillfully expanded the illustration at the top of the page, so that there would not be a telling blank space where the unfortunate quote once appeared.
I have to think of a passage from George Orwell’s “1984”, describing how the omnipotent Party under Big Brother shamelessly rewrites history as it sees fit:
“A number of The Times which might, because of changes in political alignment, or mistaken prophecies uttered by Big Brother, have been rewritten a dozen times still stood on the files bearing its original date, and no other copy existed to contradict it. Books, also, were recalled and rewritten again and again, and were invariably reissued without any admission that any alteration had been made.”
As for “mistaken prophecies”, one may consider the January 1, 1989 Watchtower Magazine. As originally published, it stated that Christian missionary work begun in the first century will “be completed in our 20th century”.
Yes, they were unreservedly predicting Armageddon before the end of the 1900s, certainly not for the first time, but possibly for the last time: With little more than a decade to go before this prophecy could be proven false, they finally got cold feet. When this and other issues were republished in bound volumes, the text had magically changed from “in our 20th century” to a rather less specific wording: “in our day”.
But of course, this is still presented as the January 1, 1989 Watchtower — in George Orwell’s words, “bearing its original date … reissued without any admission that any alteration had been made.”
Unlike the Big Brother Party of Orwell’s novel, the Watchtower is luckily not quite powerful enough to shred all copies of the original issue.
Reply
David says:
April 20, 2015 at 2:36 am
The entire JW religion is based on misquoting.
We are in 2015, this alone proves that they are interpretations have been and will be squarely wrong!
But they will not rectify this, they will keep ruining people families until they’ll be shown for what they really are.
Reply
James Broughton says:
April 20, 2015 at 5:01 am
Keep up the good work. I wrote to the Society after they published their new Bible, asking for names of scholars who supported their translation. They told me it was too soon after its release but sent me a list of names of those who supported earlier versions including one Alexander Thomson of Britain whom they also described as “under appointment to the queen for material regarding the Bible”. I checked this out with Buckingham Palace and they replied that “there is no record of his ever having had any connections with the Palace”. I rest my case.
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Cedars says:
April 20, 2015 at 5:04 am
Thanks for that information James. Would you be able to send me scanned copies of this correspondence?
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James Broughton says:
April 20, 2015 at 5:28 am
Scanned copy on its way.
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Anonymous123 says:
April 20, 2015 at 5:13 am
Quote has not been deleted from the Serbian and Italian versions. Maybe this will be done in the next few days. We’ll see!
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Elka Tire says:
April 20, 2015 at 10:49 am
Why the open letter written by Rama Singh dissapear from http://evol.mcmaster.ca/~brian/evoldir/Other/Awake.letter ???
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Charles Costante says:
April 20, 2015 at 3:01 pm
There’s another copy of the letter here, Elsa.
http://jwalumni.org/2015/01/17/rama-singh-awake/
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Charles Costante says:
April 20, 2015 at 3:03 pm
Sorry, Elka, I misspelled your name.
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Elka Tire says:
April 20, 2015 at 3:51 pm
Charles, I wonder if Rama got an agreement with the WT and took off the letter.
El Kato
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Charles Costante says:
April 20, 2015 at 10:35 pm
Who knows, Elka? I suppose only time will tell.
notanapologist says:
April 20, 2015 at 5:31 pm
Religion is the bane of man. Too bad the 911 terrorists did not target the watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn. Let the terrorists kill each other. Take out the 7 governing body and shoot them.
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AlF says:
April 20, 2015 at 5:55 pm
Here here! Bury the gb, the pope and all the ayatollahs with their watchtowers, bibles and qurans! The bible is the worst book ever! The Jesus story is a story about a Father torturing his own son to death! God needs no ritual sacrifice to forgive mankind! Even so, did it need to be such a gruesome and agonizing death? A sadistic man-made fantasy!
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Strangequark says:
April 20, 2015 at 10:58 pm
I noticed this change a few weeks ago. At the time the attached audio was not updated which amused me greatly.
It’s also funny how they replaced the dishonest text with just some more dishonest text.
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Excelsior! says:
April 21, 2015 at 2:24 am
notanapologist,
Your comment needs some thinking through.
You do realise that innocent people were on those planes, don’t you?
Do you have any evidence that the WTBTS has engaged in terrorist activities? How would you define terrorist acts?
Would the governing body of the Jehovah’s Witnesses receive any free and fair trial before they were shot?
I agree with your as to the ends, but I utterly reject the means.
It’s good that you care so deeply about the victims of the WTBTS. We can work together to hold the wtbts to account legally and peacefully, and I look forward to doing so with you.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Fluffy says:
April 21, 2015 at 2:42 am
Of course in true Watchtower style, rather than appologise (the way a true journalist would be made to), they prefer to lie some more to cover their tracks. Sadly the majority of my ‘in’ family will never accept there is anything amiss in this, because how can Gods channel be held accountable, they are afterall just imperfect men. Im getting quite dizzy from all their circular reasoning!
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Excelsior! says:
April 21, 2015 at 6:34 am
AIF,
What would happen after you had buried all these religious leaders? Do you think that the adherents of those religions would just take this extreme and illegal act lying down?
Your proposal would lead to brutal war, potentially without end.
Can’t you think of any book that is worse than the bible? I think there are plenty of books that I would consider far worse than the bible.
I agree that the “ransom sacrifice” is problematic. However, JESUS did say that he sacrificed himself for his friends.
I am an atheist, and I would like to see an end to religion. However, unlike your good self and notanapologist, I do not propose violent change.
The only way to see the end of religion peacefully is a long term education programme. Even this method may well prove to be unfruitful.
We should ensure that all religions obey the secular law, and be equal under the law. This can be achieved through political reform and debate, rather than violent action.
I agree with the ends, it’s just that the means would lead, in my opinion, to brutal war and the death of many innocent people whose only crime is to hold a religious faith.
I look forward to working with you to achieve our mutual aims in legal and peaceful ways.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Driving Force says:
April 22, 2015 at 5:11 am
Misquoting things really seems to be a problem for the Watchtower.
I was looking at a back issue of an Awake magazine, and there was a quote from “Scientific American”, although the actual issue of the magazine was not quoted in the Awake. So I sent an inquiry to Scientific American asking if they would let me know from which issue that was, needless to say I did not receive a reply, but then from the Watchtower I would not have received a reply anyway.
I am mentioning this because as I speak English and German I compared the German issue of Awake, the Watchtower Society correctly translated the quote, but then claims it to be from a completely different magazine, “Spectrum der Wissenschaft”, which is not a translated Scientific American. So I sent an inquiry to the “Spectrum der Wissenschaft”, they did replay, but could not confirm that the quote was from one of their magazines. They did indicate an article that was discussing the same subject, but kindly pointed out that unless I can state from exactly which issue the quote came from, they could not confirm anything.
So for me the reply means that the Society are certainly not being honest.
This is really dumb, because they could have translated it and simply said that it was a quotation from Scientific American and everything would be fine.
The Awake in question was: October 2012 (The Bible—A Book of Accurate Prophecy—Part 6).
It would be interesting if this also occured with other languages.
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anonymous says:
April 22, 2015 at 6:23 am
When I got involved in the “truth” in the 1960’s, the Watchtower and Awakes and the books used to put where they got their quotes from but as time went on, I noticed that the Society no longer would say where we could verify the information.
When I first noticed it, I remember it bothered me but it took many years later until I finally realized that they don’t put the sources where to find the quotes in the literature on purpose so that we can’t verify the information because they make it all up.
The Society relies on the fact that almost all Witnesses are blindly gullible into thinking that it is run by God himself and therefore they could never lie to them but unfortunately they are a bunch of liars and therefore could never actually be God’s “true” religion.
They are just a bunch of liars, out to cheat Witnesses out of their time, labor and money to line their pockets and buy up more and more real estate.
Misquoting or making up lies to influence gullible people into believing in that religion is just another cult tactic called deceitful recruiting tactics.
When I was in school and wrote up a paper, I had to site my sources and if I didn’t do that, I’d have gotten failing marks on any paper so lame.
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theGreenWitness says:
April 22, 2015 at 6:35 am
Partial U-turn? So its more like an L-turn? I would say a J turn but thats a bit too cool for the society to pull off..
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alan says:
April 23, 2015 at 1:33 pm
I sold a 1953 NWT to a JW on ebay and he offered me a “bible” study which I refused and told him that I have differences of opinions on various issues. He came back and asked me what they were. I mentioned the Singh qoute and showed him where it was misquoted. His replay was venemous to say the least. Basically he called me a liar and said that he wouldn’t listen if I quoted WT literature. I had to quote the Bible only. Ironic isn’t it as in order to answer any religious/Biblical questions I have, he would use the very publications he told me not to quote in order to answer them.
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Fulano says:
April 23, 2015 at 2:54 pm
Beneficie-se dá Escola do Ministério Teocrático página 225 sobre exatidão da matéria: “Além de verificar a confiabilidade das fontes, estude cuidadosamente como usar a informação. Certifique-se de usar citações e estatísticas em harmonia com o contexto do qual foram extraídas. Por exemplo, no esforço de expressar-se com veemência, cuide para que “algumas pessoas” não se transforme em “a maioria das pessoas”, nem “muitas pessoas” em “todas as pessoas”, e que “em certos casos” não se transforme em “sempre”. Superdimensionar assuntos ou exagerar informações envolvendo cifras, extensão ou gravidade de determinado fato põe em dúvida a credibilidade de quem as divulga.”
Atenção às últimas palavras dessa citação: “põe em dúvida a credibilidade de quem as divulga”.
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Fulano says:
April 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm
Be p. 225: “In addition to checking the reliability of the sources, consider carefully how you plan to use the information. Make sure that your use of quotations and statistics harmonizes with the context from which they are taken. In an effort to express yourself forcefully, be careful that “some people” does not become “the majority of people,” that “many people” does not become “everyone,” and that “in some cases” does not become “always.” Overstating matters or exaggerating reports involving number, extent, or seriousness raises questions of credibility.”
Focus on the last part: “raises questions of credibility.”
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AlF says:
April 23, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Excelsior, Obviously, sir, you need to learn the meaning of the word “euphemism.” Saying I want those people buried does not have to be taken literally. In defense of notanapologist, I assume he knew innocent people died on those planes. He was likely just using a historical event as an analogy to make his point. No need to go through his comments with a fine-tooth comb. As for your “free and fair trial” for the governing body, let me ask you this, did the victims of the watchtower’s molesters get a “fair trial” before they were taken advantage of? And how long will your proposed “re-education” program take, to wean the masses off their opiate of religion? A century, a millennium, or more? By then, our charming Middle Eastern friends will have beheaded, incinerated or thrown us all off tall buildings. Patience is a virtue, sir, but only to a point.
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john says:
May 18, 2015 at 2:47 am
alleged victims you mean. How dare you slander the gb in this way, they are the faithful and discreet slave.
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anonymous says:
May 18, 2015 at 3:17 am
@john, they are the “alleged” faithful and discreet slave until proved to be so.
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Charles Costante says:
May 18, 2015 at 3:38 am
Because they tell you they are, john?!!! They are no more the F&DS than the Pope is God’s representative on earth.
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Excelsior! says:
May 18, 2015 at 4:28 am
John,
Why do you say alleged victims, sir? These cases have been through a trial and so these are CONFIRMED cases.
It is the governing body who have slandered the victims and the ex JWs. Mr Lett accused all of these cases of being apostate driven lies! Mr Lett, a member of the governing body, is a slanderer, not any of us.
What level of proof do you require, John? Is a thorough investigation by the “superior authorities” (Romans 13) not good enough for you? Is a free and fair trial not good enough for you, John?
How can you call the governing body of JWs the “faithful and discreet slave”?
Was it discreet of the governing body to fail to make plans that were within their means for the upcoming service year?
What convinced you that the governing body of the JWs are the faithful and discreet slave, John?
We are not the ones slandering people, John. We are trying to protect children and young people from the paedophiles who operate, seemingly with impunity, in your religion.
I would say that this is a Christian act, wouldn’t you, John?
Please do your own independent research, John.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Tim smith says:
April 23, 2015 at 7:45 pm
The audio version of the Awake has not changed. It still reads as the original was printed as of yesterday.
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Excelsior! says:
April 24, 2015 at 5:01 am
AIF,
Thank you for your reply. I have just checked the meaning of euphemism and it does not apply here.
An euphemism is where a less controversial word is used to replace one that may be taboo etc.
No, the victims did not have a free and fair trial. They weren’t on trial, were they? They were abused by disgusting individuals who need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That is something that we both agree with, sir.
As for how long this education programme will take – I have no idea. In my opinion, regardless of how long it takes, it is preferable to aggression and violence. We can, of course, disagree.
I have stated that all religions must be held to account by thr same laws as all citizens. This is something we can all help with by engaging with our Representatives, and lobbying for this.
We must agree to disagree, sir. I thank you sincerely for your polite response. I appreciate it.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Excelsior! says:
April 24, 2015 at 8:41 am
AIF,
I think the device used by your good self and notanapologist was hyperbole. This is using exaggeration to make a point.
I did not pick up on this, so I apologise for that. I had no context to judge the comments as hyperbole, and there were no punctuation clues, like the use of exclamation marks.
Anyway, point taken, sir. I am glad that we have been able to clarify our opinions in this polite manner.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
AlF says:
April 24, 2015 at 2:54 pm
I think you think too much.
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Swallowtail says:
April 25, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Better to think too much, than not at all. There are far too many people in the world who do the latter unfortunately.
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Excelsior! says:
April 25, 2015 at 4:39 am
AIF,
I don’t agree. Thinking allows one to make decisions, like for example, what to write on a comments section of a blog.
It allows one to consider how what is written will be taken by those reading it. Thinking allows one to consider the consequences of making comments calling for people to be shot without trial, using hyperbole, as perhaps not the most constructive manner of discourse.
I shall continue to think deeply about things, and search for knowledge, as this is who I am. I shall continue to challenge and seek clarification on posts that do not make sense to me.
It is, of course, entirely up to you what you will do.
Whatever it is, I wish you well.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Flying Dragon says:
April 25, 2015 at 1:48 pm
Excelsior, I have read some of your comments predicting global apocalypse if religion is ever forcibly abolished. My question is, what will all the religious die-hards whom you fear, use to kill the rest of us? Stones, as in Biblical times? It is the secular governments who control the world’s armed Forces. The only viable military threat from organized religion would be the
Swiss Guard at the Vatican. The people of the world are starting to awaken and move toward secularism and atheism, anyway. I don’t see a reason to be a Nervous Nellie about it. You sound a bit like the JDubs, predicting global catastrophe. We can learn something from current events. The Allies hesitated to back the rebels in Syria in their righteous cause of overthrowing a brutal dictatorship, and so ISIS was born from that cauldron. They hesitate once more, and ISIS grows stronger, acquiring more and more territory, wealth, weaponry, manpower, etc. Fear causes hesitation and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true.
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laredac33 says:
April 26, 2015 at 5:37 am
For the french speakers, this article is translated to french here:
https://tjvisioncritique.wordpress.com/
Sincerely
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kat says:
April 26, 2015 at 6:30 pm
If they are not plagiarizing they are misquoting, the FDS/GB has to be trusted regardless, because they are appointed by Christ. What a reputation!
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Excelsior! says:
April 27, 2015 at 4:35 am
Flying Dragon,
Oh dear! Who do you think make up the armies of the world? Are they all atheists, bent on the forcible removal of freedom of choice? Many of those heavily armed and well trained soldiers will be people of faith!
Do you really think that religious people would not be able to get hold of weapons? Of course they could! How many Americans would gladly have their religious faith forcibly removed form them, without reaching for their guns?
I am not ANYTHING like the Jehovah’s Witnesses. That was very insulting, actually.
You state that the world is increasingly becoming secular anyway, so why are you and others getting so upset with me? Surely the passing of time, and better education, will lead to the gradual reduction in power of religion
Why should you or anyone have the right to forcibly remove a major part of people’s lives? Most religious people follow the law and are of no threat to anyone.
I agree that religious cults need to be challenged and compelled, not to drop their religious faith, but to follow the laws as all other citizens do.
If you can show me in history where forcing people to do things against their will turned out peachy, then I would very much like to read about it.
We shall have to agree to disagree.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Are all religious people so terribly evil, that you and others want to force them to disbelieve?
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Brazilian Guy says:
April 27, 2015 at 9:00 am
I want to become a pioneer as soon as possible!
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Pickled brain says:
April 27, 2015 at 11:16 am
@Brazilian Guy . Most regular pioneers I went to pioneer School with in 1981 are Disfellowshipped or have broken marriages or had Mental Breakdowns (22 out of 30 of my Class ) So Brazilian guy I wish you well!!
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Bearwoody says:
April 28, 2015 at 7:59 pm
Yes, Alexander Thomson is truly another jewel in the Watchtower crown of Biblical Scholars. Verily, I say.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Thomson_%28writer%29
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John says:
May 5, 2015 at 5:33 am
Good one Lloyd! Any questions now over why they are obsessed with jw.org? Instant history revisions!
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Excelsior! says:
May 21, 2015 at 9:47 am
Folks,
In the past, before the advent of the Internet, the WTBTS would have got away with this Big Brother revising of their literature.
Now, the changes have been reported and are available for anyone to view.
This is a great example of just how powerful this site is. Many other activists have also featured this in their work.
I am pleased that “the good old days” when the WTBTS had pretty much complete control of information is over.
No longer can they run roughshod over the correct way to quote someone with impunity.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Charles Costante says:
May 24, 2015 at 10:31 pm
““In summary, the Writing Department insists on using only material that is accurate and truthful, even regarding seemingly insignificant details.”
I have never been able to understand why so many people use the expression, “To tell you the honest truth ……….”(https://www.google.com/search?q=%22To+tell+you+the+honest+truth%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) when the adjective ‘honest’ would appear to be redundant in that phrase. I’ve finally worked out why! It’s to differentiate from the ‘dishonest truth’, spouted by the Watchtower!!! (LOL)
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http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/jw-org-does-partial-u-turn-over-awake-magazine-rama-singh-misquote#comments
JW.org does partial U-turn over Awake! magazine Rama Singh misquote
avatar
Posted on April 19, 2015
JW.org has removed their misquote of Rama Singh from digital versions of Awake! magazine
JW.org has removed their misquote of Rama Singh from digital versions of Awake! magazine
Some of you will remember that back in January we reported on the latest example of a Watchtower publication misquoting an academic to get its anti-science views across. Biologist Rama Singh was quoted in the January 2015 Awake! magazine with comments that seemed to suggest he was a denier of evolutionary theory, when in actual fact he is anything but.
“JW has indeed misquoted me and I do not agree with their article and its anti-evolution stand,” he said on being alerted to the matter.
In an open letter to Awake! magazine editors, Singh made this request (bold is mine):
“So I am asking you first to remove the misquotation from your article immediately and second print an unconditional apology for what I consider is a deliberate damaging action on your part to my reputation.”
Well… it seems Awake! has done the first part. Digital versions of the January 2015 Awake! magazine, including the PDF download, no longer feature the Rama Singh quote as the following images show…
BEFORE…
11126905_10153245677955859_1438907929721439922_n
AFTER…
11054860_10153245678865859_3962693436555226232_n
The only thing that is conspicuous by its absence is the second part of Singh’s request – namely a printed, unconditional apology from Awake! editors for misquoting him. Unfortunately for Singh, who has since written about the incident in the Hamilton Spectator, it is extremely doubtful he will receive any such thing.
Despite professing “Christlike humility,” the “spiritual men” who work on the Governing Body’s Writing Committee are not renowned for their willingness to issue apologies or print retractions.
Needless to say, the whole affair smacks of hypocrisy. A religion that is the first to point the finger at others for deception and subterfuge is not above stooping to such methods if it means duping people into embracing their backwards views.
The scandal also makes a mockery of this quote from page 13 of the 2011 Yearbook:
“In summary, the Writing Department insists on using only material that is accurate and truthful, even regarding seemingly insignificant details. As a result, ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ can consistently supply spiritual food that brings honor to ‘the God of truth,’ Jehovah.—Ps. 31:5.”
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/jw-org-does-partial-u-turn-over-awake-magazine-rama-singh-misquote#comments
JW.org does partial U-turn over Awake! magazine Rama Singh misquote
avatar
Posted on April 19, 2015
JW.org has removed their misquote of Rama Singh from digital versions of Awake! magazine
JW.org has removed their misquote of Rama Singh from digital versions of Awake! magazine
Some of you will remember that back in January we reported on the latest example of a Watchtower publication misquoting an academic to get its anti-science views across. Biologist Rama Singh was quoted in the January 2015 Awake! magazine with comments that seemed to suggest he was a denier of evolutionary theory, when in actual fact he is anything but.
“JW has indeed misquoted me and I do not agree with their article and its anti-evolution stand,” he said on being alerted to the matter.
In an open letter to Awake! magazine editors, Singh made this request (bold is mine):
“So I am asking you first to remove the misquotation from your article immediately and second print an unconditional apology for what I consider is a deliberate damaging action on your part to my reputation.”
Well… it seems Awake! has done the first part. Digital versions of the January 2015 Awake! magazine, including the PDF download, no longer feature the Rama Singh quote as the following images show…
BEFORE…
11126905_10153245677955859_1438907929721439922_n
AFTER…
11054860_10153245678865859_3962693436555226232_n
The only thing that is conspicuous by its absence is the second part of Singh’s request – namely a printed, unconditional apology from Awake! editors for misquoting him. Unfortunately for Singh, who has since written about the incident in the Hamilton Spectator, it is extremely doubtful he will receive any such thing.
Despite professing “Christlike humility,” the “spiritual men” who work on the Governing Body’s Writing Committee are not renowned for their willingness to issue apologies or print retractions.
Needless to say, the whole affair smacks of hypocrisy. A religion that is the first to point the finger at others for deception and subterfuge is not above stooping to such methods if it means duping people into embracing their backwards views.
The scandal also makes a mockery of this quote from page 13 of the 2011 Yearbook:
“In summary, the Writing Department insists on using only material that is accurate and truthful, even regarding seemingly insignificant details. As a result, ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ can consistently supply spiritual food that brings honor to ‘the God of truth,’ Jehovah.—Ps. 31:5.”
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/jw-org-does-partial-u-turn-over-awake-magazine-rama-singh-misquote#comments
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm
Good article and news after I divorced a Jehovah’s Witness wife in October 2014. I feel better away this woman who unfortunately has with help of Elders and “other sheep” under undue influence from stupid interpretation of the Bible by “The Slave” (JW’s Governing Body)! I feel pity of my son who will be forced to follow her mother’s cognitive dissonance.
This religion stands for a purpose I really fail to understand as a human. It wilds mankind. Consider the following:
*** fy chap. 8 pp. 96-97 pars. 17-18 Protect Your Family From Destructive Influences ***
Yet it is not enough simply to teach your children to avoid bad associates. Help them to find good ones. One father says: “We would always try to substitute. So when the school wanted our son on the football team, my wife and I sat down with him and discussed why that wouldn’t be a good idea—because of the new companions that would be involved. But then we suggested getting some of the other children in the congregation and taking all of them to the park to play ball. And that worked out fine.”
18 Wise parents help their children to find good friends and then to enjoy wholesome recreation with them. For many parents, though, this matter of recreation presents challenges of its own.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:22 pm
I wanted to mean …. “I feel better away from this woman who unfortunately has taken captive my cute son with help of Elders and “other sheep”…”
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Mama Joy says:
May 23, 2015 at 1:35 pm
The notoriety of this case my be unusual, but the crime isn’t.
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Darlene Alexander says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:01 pm
So true, Jeni! JWs in general are taught to hate, but it’s a very insidious type disguised as “love.” Though the child may be acting out because of his feuding parents (and we all know what that’s about….), this little boy is a poster child for how JWs teach their children to view anyone that does not belong to their ‘religion.’ If that doesn’t say ‘cult’ I don’t know what does. Thanks for the overview of the news item!
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Grace says:
May 23, 2015 at 3:34 pm
@Darlene A.
I totally agree with your comment. It’s one of the passive aggressive religions I have ever come across. Hate disguised as love is a really appropriate description. Their true colours often come out when you least expect it.
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Kat says:
May 23, 2015 at 2:46 pm
Good article, and not at all UNCOMMON to be sure. The us vs. them, we’ll live in their fine home after they are killed, destroyed at Armageddon is a theme often repeated at in the door to door work. And years of mum’s comments that “worldly” people will die because of celebrating holidays, being patriotic or any number of infractions wears on their wee minds. No wonder this poor child lashed out at what he viewed at pure Satanic ways of life, that’s all he heard for 7 years.
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Pickled brain says:
May 23, 2015 at 3:55 pm
7 year old …. Damaged already… PROBABLY BAPTISED at 6 years of age …. !!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 23, 2015 at 4:16 pm
@Darlene & @Grace …. ‘Hate Disguised as Love’ Very Aptly Put !! The Love is Conditional as I found out when I make comments in the Watchtower study like ‘ I hope the F&D Slave get it right this time on the Generation Interpetation ‘ After a comment like that I have been Cold Shouldered, Blanked, ignored,etc By friends??? I have known for 30 years BECAUSE of a Personal ,BUT VERY HONEST Observation!!! Now that is FRIGHTENING CULT BEHAVIOUR!!!
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Jerry O Connor says:
May 23, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Hello to all
Seven year`s old and brainwashed. I empathize with the child but not with the parents. The only positive that I see in this sad case is that watchtower is stymied. The behavior of the child is so extreme that he can`t be another watchtower “poster boy”. Then there is the parents. They turned their son into a watchtower extremist. Another family destroyed by this obscene cult.
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dontknowwheretogo says:
May 24, 2015 at 4:47 am
Bet the kid never gets ice cream now…
Reply
Rowland Nelken says:
May 24, 2015 at 2:50 pm
Will any of the practising JWs who clearly follow this blog come to the defence of the Watchtower cult and blame the ‘worldly’ judge?
Maybe they have learned their lesson and realise that their grubby little corner of Christendom is utterly indefensible.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
May 25, 2015 at 5:12 am
Folks,
This is another tragic case. A child should be able to rely on the unconditional love of its parents.
The WTBTS actually have a packet that they give to Witness parents when custody is being challenged in court.
It says to coach the child into looking and sounding more like a normal child! It councels not to speak of pioneering etc etc!!
I shall await with interest the eventual outcome of this case.
What a poor little boy! I hope that he is given the help he needs to find some stability and peace.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
minion says:
May 25, 2015 at 7:21 pm
Great commentary Jeni,
Family members are not the same when they get exposed with indoctrination of JW beliefs.
Your comments are supported by a you tube video that was released 3 days ago by a young girl explaining in her school classroom, the troubles and challenges elders impose on familys when issues arise at home.
Your comments and this video are one. The URL:
https://youtu.be/RDvT_gYq-ls
Keep up the good work!
Reply
Andrew says:
May 26, 2015 at 5:03 am
Drama drama drama, boy do we apostates love drama
Reply
yawn says:
May 26, 2015 at 5:30 am
@andrew
Or maybe we are happy for one kid who may have a chance at a somewhat normal childhood, but still worry for others who have no way out of this cult (yet). Yes, we do like to see the hypocrisy, inhumanity and ruthlessness of the WT organization exposed, despite their best efforts to hide it, because we want the world to see the true face behind the JW.org mask.
Reply
Andrew says:
May 26, 2015 at 6:04 am
well, i don’t like the fact we are making it look as if every jw kids are dammaged like this child, say what you want, we all know this aint the case. I have 4 kids, they had many friends in the JW. Some still in, others not, none of them are this troubled, quite the contrary. The poor kid probably has unfitting parents, he would act strangely even if they were atheist. Just sayin
Reply
Kat says:
May 26, 2015 at 5:43 am
Well said yawn!
Reply
http://jwsurvey.org/news/watchtowers-influence-comes-under-scrutiny-in-family-court
Watchtower’s influence comes under scrutiny in family court
Posted on May 23, 2015
A judge at Leicester law courts (pictured) has concluded Watchtower beliefs were causing one boy "emotional harm"
A judge at Leicester law courts (pictured) has concluded Watchtower beliefs were causing one boy “emotional harm”
A family judge in Leicester, England has determined that the seven-year-old son of a Jehovah’s Witness mother should be removed from her care due to “emotional harm” being caused at home, so reports the Daily Mail.
School officials testified that the boy (who cannot be named) had been disruptive in class multiple times whenever bible-related topics are discussed. During one lesson discussing the crucifixion story, he destroyed materials with scissors and was quoted as saying, “nobody’s telling true stories about Jehovah.”
The boy is also reported as having told school staff that he “could not be with people who didn’t believe in Jehovah,” and has spoken “contemptuously” about a non-Jehovah’s Witness bible.
It also appears his father was deemed as unfit. The boy is quoted as saying “I don’t love daddy at all,” describing him as “really mean.” Whether these claims are true, or a result of the mother’s conditioning, is unclear. Testimony heard by the judge seems to suggest the parents were involved in a feud, and the boy found himself in the middle of it.
After hearing all sides of the matter, Judge Clifford Bellamy ruled the boy would be better off in the care of foster parents. In his ruling he is quoted as saying: “I am satisfied that (the boy) has suffered emotional harm… I am satisfied that the fact that (the boy) has been immersed by his mother in her religious beliefs and practices has been a significant factor in causing that emotional harm.”
Though a case of this notoriety is rare, negative results stemming from Watchtower’s undue influence upon children are not uncommon. Being highly impressionable and trusting, most children do not see a need to question what their parents teach them. Many children brought up as Jehovah’s Witnesses are easily molded by the “us vs. them” attitude that is inherent to Witness beliefs.
I personally can recall having a feeling of superiority over non-Witness children as a young child. Growing up, I was trained by my own mother, congregation elders, and Watchtower’s publications to believe that everyone who was not a Witness (including my then non-believing father) would be destroyed at Armageddon—and their carcasses eaten by birds. My young life was filled with images of the terror and destruction that awaited all those who rejected the “Truth.”
This indoctrination by Watchtower has led to the break up of countless families such as mine, as Witnesses follow counsel to shun those who leave the organization for fear of being destroyed themselves.
Fear learned at a young age is often difficult to unlearn. Even those of us who wake up and leave the organization will often encounter the thoughts of devastation we were conditioned with. Tragically, the resulting fear and guilt can lead some down destructive paths, even to suicide.
It isn’t hard to see how this boy, caught between quarreling parents, and being fed Watchtower doomsday stories, might have acted out in school. In his young mind, he is a crusader for truth. One can only hope that being away from family and Watchtower pressures will help him see the beauty of the world and how to peacefully exist in it.
The family’s case will be revisited again this summer by the Judge.
http://jwsurvey.org/news/watchtowers-influence-comes-under-scrutiny-in-family-court
Watchtower’s influence comes under scrutiny in family court
Posted on May 23, 2015
A judge at Leicester law courts (pictured) has concluded Watchtower beliefs were causing one boy "emotional harm"
A judge at Leicester law courts (pictured) has concluded Watchtower beliefs were causing one boy “emotional harm”
A family judge in Leicester, England has determined that the seven-year-old son of a Jehovah’s Witness mother should be removed from her care due to “emotional harm” being caused at home, so reports the Daily Mail.
School officials testified that the boy (who cannot be named) had been disruptive in class multiple times whenever bible-related topics are discussed. During one lesson discussing the crucifixion story, he destroyed materials with scissors and was quoted as saying, “nobody’s telling true stories about Jehovah.”
The boy is also reported as having told school staff that he “could not be with people who didn’t believe in Jehovah,” and has spoken “contemptuously” about a non-Jehovah’s Witness bible.
It also appears his father was deemed as unfit. The boy is quoted as saying “I don’t love daddy at all,” describing him as “really mean.” Whether these claims are true, or a result of the mother’s conditioning, is unclear. Testimony heard by the judge seems to suggest the parents were involved in a feud, and the boy found himself in the middle of it.
After hearing all sides of the matter, Judge Clifford Bellamy ruled the boy would be better off in the care of foster parents. In his ruling he is quoted as saying: “I am satisfied that (the boy) has suffered emotional harm… I am satisfied that the fact that (the boy) has been immersed by his mother in her religious beliefs and practices has been a significant factor in causing that emotional harm.”
Though a case of this notoriety is rare, negative results stemming from Watchtower’s undue influence upon children are not uncommon. Being highly impressionable and trusting, most children do not see a need to question what their parents teach them. Many children brought up as Jehovah’s Witnesses are easily molded by the “us vs. them” attitude that is inherent to Witness beliefs.
I personally can recall having a feeling of superiority over non-Witness children as a young child. Growing up, I was trained by my own mother, congregation elders, and Watchtower’s publications to believe that everyone who was not a Witness (including my then non-believing father) would be destroyed at Armageddon—and their carcasses eaten by birds. My young life was filled with images of the terror and destruction that awaited all those who rejected the “Truth.”
This indoctrination by Watchtower has led to the break up of countless families such as mine, as Witnesses follow counsel to shun those who leave the organization for fear of being destroyed themselves.
Fear learned at a young age is often difficult to unlearn. Even those of us who wake up and leave the organization will often encounter the thoughts of devastation we were conditioned with. Tragically, the resulting fear and guilt can lead some down destructive paths, even to suicide.
It isn’t hard to see how this boy, caught between quarreling parents, and being fed Watchtower doomsday stories, might have acted out in school. In his young mind, he is a crusader for truth. One can only hope that being away from family and Watchtower pressures will help him see the beauty of the world and how to peacefully exist in it.
The family’s case will be revisited again this summer by the Judge.
http://jwsurvey.org/news/watchtowers-influence-comes-under-scrutiny-in-family-court
Brie says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:37 pm
I am Brie, Thank you so much for writing this! I love this website and have used it many times! I am honored to be part of it!
Reply
sam says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:47 pm
This video was awsome, im so glad it has gone viral. Great job Brie!
Reply
Terri O'Sullivan says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Well done Brie. Your message will be an inspiration to so many other exJWs out there. When I watched your video and then read all the lovely comments written at the end of the Independent newspaper and all the other sites it was on it made me realise how much love there is in the world for people who have gone through what we went through. Thank you for being so brave for speaking up! x
Reply
Cedars says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:04 pm
You’re a hero Brie!
I’m glad you’ve seen this article. It’s important you understand the magnitude of what you’ve accomplished, and how much we all appreciate your bravery. I’m proud that this website has been helpful for you! :)
Reply
Mama Joy says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:13 pm
Bravo! I’m so proud of you for speaking out and I know God is proud of you too! They are wolves in sheeps clothing and you no longer have the wool pulled over your eyes! Celebrate today and every day you are free!
Reply
Darlene Alexander says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:36 pm
I admire your bravery, Brie! I know how hard it must of been to get up there and speak about such personal subjects, but what a wonderful job you did! The more we can expose JWs as the dangerous cult they are, the more people we can keep from being mislead by them – and hope we can help to pull people out as well. We are so proud of you!
Reply
JJ says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Brie, you’re awesome!
I only wish that I had figured out this cult when I was your age!
Reply
M. says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:38 pm
Well done brave lady!
One person can make difference!
Reply
anonymous says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:45 pm
Brie’s video was posted just 4 days ago and it’s now well over 400,000 views. I don’t think the Society can sweep this one under the rug and everything she said in that video can be backed up in Watchtower publications. There is no way the Society can say that she’s an apostate “liar”. It is too bad she only had 15 minutes because she didn’t touch on the 2 witness rule for child abuse and she didn’t touch on blood but what she packed into that 15 minutes knocked the ball out of the park!!!
Reply
JJ says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:47 pm
Yup, hundreds of thousands of views for Brie’s video. This is the Watchtower Society’s worst nightmare-come-true! How can the WT say that a young girl is an ‘apostate’?!? How can they claim that this young girl doesn’t know what she is talking about when these are her own experiences?!?
Oh boy, I bet there will be heated, round table discussions on damage control at Watchtower headquarters.
It will be interesting to see what happens now.
Reply
William Niles says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Well done Brie, you have stood bravely. The average JW will look at your video that has been posted on the medial and label you as a liar/slanderer, etc.. Anytime, ANYTHING bad is said about JWs then to them it’s all nothing but lies..but if that same media ramps/raves about JWs then they have no problem plastering it all over jw.org. What they deem as truth is only when it suits THEIR purpose. Your comments hit the nail on the head and you speak absolute truth and JWs are simply living in denial. In their own Elder’s manual, it says clearly that if Elders discover that a husband committed adultery and learn that he lied about the extent of his adultery, they have been instructed NOT to tell his wife about it and will simply say, “we encourage you to talk with your husband”. So in a case where the woman decides to forgive him and sleeps with him, but then afterwards learns that he lied about the extent of his adultery; from that point on she can’t divorce him without being disfellowshipped because when she resumed relations with him she technically forgave him…the problem is that the Elders KNOWINGLY withheld vital information from her that would have helped her to make a decision in the first place! In the case that the woman commits adultery, he CAN sit in on her committee, but they WON’T allow her to sit in on his judicial committee. There are well-documented cases where the Elders knew that a man had molested a child…but did NOT tell his wife that her own husband molested a child.
If you are a JW–you will label this brave young woman as someone who is attacking you, slandering you, etc.. There is simply TOO MUCH irrefutable proof that what Bree says is true…and you’re own Bible clearly says that it only takes 2-3 witness to establish the matter as truth. There are literally THOUSANDS of witnesses to establish these matters as truth….WAKE UP PEOPLE.
Reply
William Niles says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:03 pm
Sorry, bad typing. I meant to say that anytime the very same media who they say slanders them/lies about them publishes anything good about them, then all of the sudden they have no problem posting it all over jw.org, sharing the experience in assemblies, etc.. It’s only what THEY establish as truth and only what they want people to hear.
Reply
Designer Stubble says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:08 pm
Thanks Brie – You are our Hero. Loved your video and your letter at the friendly atheist. Your parents can be very proud of you. Happy to read you will be off to University.
John – Good to write up on this. Positive blog.
It will take time, but the WTBTS cannot withstand the power that Internet and Social Media gives to our voices.
Reply
Innocent Son says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:35 pm
Brie, I applaud your bravery, I hope that this inspires many other to come forward and tell the truth about the Org. Because of the Internet and websites like this many others will be able to see behind the shadows and break free….Deep respect and much love to you and your family.
Reply
Grace says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:48 pm
@Brie,
Bravo, you have pressed the start button, the missing link that will get to the masses. Why? Because many other religions will have to stand up & look at the way that they are treating their followers as well. I have a young friend who is your age going through something similar (but not as cruel) with her religion which is orthodox.
You give me hope that when I am no longer here, your generation will be able to grow up from the stifleness of archaic, patriarchal religions.
Reply
Ted says:
May 26, 2015 at 3:05 pm
I listened to Brie’s video a number of times, and was very
proud of her. At certain points she had to fight back tears
but continued on to give a clear, factual and honest
exposition of a hierarchical and sometimes cruel “Religion”?
Women at the very bottom and the GB at the top, who
countenance no dissent.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
May 26, 2015 at 3:36 pm
@Brie.THIS IS A BRILLIANT SPEECH Highlighting the REAL TRUTH what goes on in this Religion with WOMEN Treated like Second Class Citizens & Yes the LOVE is CONDITIONAL!!!
This video by Brie is a Brilliant Answer to Andrew who commented on the post before this one that his 4 children were well adjusted kids. Well if anyone would like to read my response to his comments,please feel free to look at my reply & I am open to be corrected.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
May 26, 2015 at 3:43 pm
@ William Niles . REALLY ENJOYED Your COMMENT about how the Elders Manuel’Shepherd the Flock’ TREAT WOMEN as THIRD RATE CITIZENS ‘ !! IT IS DISGUSTING & OUTRAGEOUS The way WOMEN are treated Except when the GB want them to be Pioneers so the women can peddle the Literature!!
Reply
Bryan linkoski says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm
How fitting that “the redemption song” by Bob Marley came on just as I was reading this. It’s a blessing when one is released from mental slavery from such a stifling existence. It may be that the order or there disorder is rapidly changing. Knowledge is power and it takes great courage to do whT this young lady did.
Reply
Michael says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:32 pm
You have my deepest respect Brie.Thank you for you courage.Your video brought tears to me and my wife.We have experience the loss of our families and 2 of our children.I shared the video on my Facebook page.We keep hoping things will change.
Reply
anonymous says:
May 26, 2015 at 5:21 pm
If anybody who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses does not believe that the Watchtower teaches that it is considered fornication if a girl or woman doesn’t defend herself to the death if they were raped and survived and then if they do survive being raped, they would be considered as having committed fornication unless they can prove to a committee of 3 men that they screamed and fought against the rape and didn’t invite the rape by her dress and being alone in dangerous areas, this is directly from the Watchtower magazine, 1968 June 1st article under the title of “The Christian’s View of Self-Defense”. This religion is not only a dangerous religion to belong to because of the blood issue and having to die rather than allow being to be raped, but it is very dangerous to married women because women can not leave an abusive husband and remarry (as Brie brought out in her wonderful speech) and if they do remarry, they will be disfellowshipped for adultery, making it almost impossible to get away from an abusive husband.
Women in the Witness religion are 2nd class citizens in every way possible as Brie brought out so amazingly in her speech.
This is from the 1968 Watchtower on pages 347-348
under the subheading: Attempted rape.
“If you are a Christian woman, what should you do if, in spite of all precautions, you are set upon by a rapist? If you cannot deter him by reasoning, or by calling on the name of Jehovah, then what? As a Christian you are under obligation to resist. This resistance includes screaming and creating as much disturbance as possible to try and frighten off the attacker and attract help. If the attack continues and you cannot break free to flee, then you would be justified even to inflict damage on your assailant if necessary. Resistance is imperative, because the rapist is after, not just money, but your virtue. An issue of integrity to Jehovah’s laws is involved here. So by no means would it be proper quietly to submit to rape, as that would be consenting to fornication. – 1 Thess. 4:3
The principle is like that set out at Deuteronomy chapter 22. There it states: “In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, you must also bring both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die.” Why would the girl have died under that Law covenant? The scripture continues: “The girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city.” If she did not make the effort to scream, she was viewed as consenting to fornication. But if the woman screamed and resisted and nonetheless was overpowered, then she was not guilty of complicity: “The girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.” Deut. 22:23-27.
Would it be different if the man had a weapon and threatened to kill you if you did not submit? No, the Scriptures plainly state that Christians are under obligation to “flee from fornication.” (1 Cor. 6:18) It is true that you face the possibility of death in this case. But you have no guarantee that if you meekly submit, your assailant will not kill you anyhow to avoid identification.”
Reply
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/brave-and-inspirational-schoolgirl-brie-takes-internet-by-storm-with-viral-video
Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
avatar
Posted on May 26, 2015
A tearful Brie gives a brave speech in front of her classmates in a video that would later go viral
A tearful Brie gives a brave speech in front of her classmates in a video that would later go viral
Chances are if you’re reading this you are one of the 417,000 (and counting!) people who has already seen a remarkable video by a courageous schoolgirl named Brie.
Brie, a senior at Lincoln High School in Manitowoc, Wisconsin, was given an assignment with the rest of her classmates to deliver a “persuasive speech.”
“[The teacher] pointed out that speeches are much more persuasive when you’re using something you value to drive your ideas,” Brie later wrote on the Friendly Atheist blog. “It made me think about what I value in life and what my class needed to know about.”
When Brie gave her emotional speech she made sure one of her friends filmed it for her. She told her classmates of her experience growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, including the negative impact of shunning on her family and the covering up of abuse she has witnessed among her friends.
The resulting video was uploaded less than a week ago, but it has already gone well-and-truly viral – even catching the attention of the UK’s respected Independent newspaper.
We can be thankful to Brie’s teacher, Mr Hansen, for handing Brie an assignment that has turned out to be truly educational, not just for her class, but for the whole world.
This brave 18-year-old girl has seized an opportunity to stand up to Watchtower, a sinister bully that exports misery on a global scale, and has utterly exposed and shamed it in front of hundreds of thousands of people.
“It is a religion that preaches love and acceptance, but the reality is everything is conditional,” said Brie. “Love and acceptance is only extended as long as members practice absolute obedience and question nothing, ever. This religion destroys lives, destroys families and they do it largely unchecked… because they are really good at silencing the people who leave.”
Probably many ex-Witnesses like me will have felt a twinge of envy while watching these words spoken, simply because we too have been victimized by Watchtower and would have given anything to turn back the clock and take such a bold stand as teenagers.
But not many of us, myself included, were as courageous back then as Brie is now – and that is the crucial difference.
I cannot thank Brie enough for her inspirational words, and for taking such a powerful stand for her generation. Brie has done what any good activist does: she has taken the pain experienced by herself and others and turned it into something positive and productive by using it to raise awareness and thus spare others, not least her classmates, from what she has gone through.
The runaway success of Brie’s video highlights clearly that the Watchtower finds itself in a whole new ball game. The tables have well and truly turned.
Gone are the days when the Governing Body could withhold information from those tenacious and persistent enough to search for it. Gone are the days when they could stifle free thought, and keep young, intelligent people in silence and subjection.
The internet has changed everything. Now everybody has a voice if they will only summon the courage to use it. It is a privilege to see a brave young woman like Brie do just that, and find her voice with such stunning results.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/brave-and-inspirational-schoolgirl-brie-takes-internet-by-storm-with-viral-video
Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
avatar
Posted on May 26, 2015
A tearful Brie gives a brave speech in front of her classmates in a video that would later go viral
A tearful Brie gives a brave speech in front of her classmates in a video that would later go viral
Chances are if you’re reading this you are one of the 417,000 (and counting!) people who has already seen a remarkable video by a courageous schoolgirl named Brie.
Brie, a senior at Lincoln High School in Manitowoc, Wisconsin, was given an assignment with the rest of her classmates to deliver a “persuasive speech.”
“[The teacher] pointed out that speeches are much more persuasive when you’re using something you value to drive your ideas,” Brie later wrote on the Friendly Atheist blog. “It made me think about what I value in life and what my class needed to know about.”
When Brie gave her emotional speech she made sure one of her friends filmed it for her. She told her classmates of her experience growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, including the negative impact of shunning on her family and the covering up of abuse she has witnessed among her friends.
The resulting video was uploaded less than a week ago, but it has already gone well-and-truly viral – even catching the attention of the UK’s respected Independent newspaper.
We can be thankful to Brie’s teacher, Mr Hansen, for handing Brie an assignment that has turned out to be truly educational, not just for her class, but for the whole world.
This brave 18-year-old girl has seized an opportunity to stand up to Watchtower, a sinister bully that exports misery on a global scale, and has utterly exposed and shamed it in front of hundreds of thousands of people.
“It is a religion that preaches love and acceptance, but the reality is everything is conditional,” said Brie. “Love and acceptance is only extended as long as members practice absolute obedience and question nothing, ever. This religion destroys lives, destroys families and they do it largely unchecked… because they are really good at silencing the people who leave.”
Probably many ex-Witnesses like me will have felt a twinge of envy while watching these words spoken, simply because we too have been victimized by Watchtower and would have given anything to turn back the clock and take such a bold stand as teenagers.
But not many of us, myself included, were as courageous back then as Brie is now – and that is the crucial difference.
I cannot thank Brie enough for her inspirational words, and for taking such a powerful stand for her generation. Brie has done what any good activist does: she has taken the pain experienced by herself and others and turned it into something positive and productive by using it to raise awareness and thus spare others, not least her classmates, from what she has gone through.
The runaway success of Brie’s video highlights clearly that the Watchtower finds itself in a whole new ball game. The tables have well and truly turned.
Gone are the days when the Governing Body could withhold information from those tenacious and persistent enough to search for it. Gone are the days when they could stifle free thought, and keep young, intelligent people in silence and subjection.
The internet has changed everything. Now everybody has a voice if they will only summon the courage to use it. It is a privilege to see a brave young woman like Brie do just that, and find her voice with such stunning results.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/brave-and-inspirational-schoolgirl-brie-takes-internet-by-storm-with-viral-video
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New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
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11 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?
http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
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New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
Here is a playlist featuring the most recent uploads…
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11 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?
http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
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Top Posts & Pages
Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
Cough up, kids - Watchtower needs your ice cream money!
Cough up, kids - Watchtower needs your ice cream money!
Watchtower's influence comes under scrutiny in family court
Watchtower's influence comes under scrutiny in family court
Stephen Lett admits income/expenditure shortfall as he reminds Witnesses to donate "valuable things"
Stephen Lett admits income/expenditure shortfall as he reminds Witnesses to donate "valuable things"
Links
Links
JW.org does partial U-turn over Awake! magazine Rama Singh misquote
JW.org does partial U-turn over Awake! magazine Rama Singh misquote
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
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Like us on Facebook!
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Who's Online
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◾34 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾anonymous on Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
◾JJ on Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
◾JJ on Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
◾Michael on Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
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