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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
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Financial Report for 2011 to Date

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Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
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Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
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Native American DNA
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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LDS Church Issued Unbelievable Environmental Award  
Posted: 18 October 2015 11:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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http://suindependent.com/lds-church-wins-environmental-award/
 
Should have been an unawareness award!  
 
  
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Posted: 19 October 2015 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Link doesn't work. 
 
Try this one: http://suindependent.com/lds-church-wins-environmental-award/
 
Or this one: Linky Thingy 
 
 
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Posted: 19 October 2015 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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Mormonism is a big business masquerading as a religion.
 
How many Mormons are on the Board of Rocky Mountain Power?
 
Looks to me like they're trying to dredge up any good publicity they can get.


   


Posted: 20 October 2015 04:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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A few years ago, I sat in a meeting with someone from the Church's building department. He was telling us about two new prototype meeting houses that would incorporate photovoltaics (active solar). The idea was to take a building that sits vaccant for the majority of daylight hours, capture the solar energy, feed it back into the electrical grid, receiving a credit($) at a wholesale KwH rate; and then repurchase at a standard KwH rate when consummed by the building.  The goal was to break even at the end of the month. Their concern was "tax exemption"---suprise, suprise. In the event that they sold more $ in wholesale energy than $ consumed at a standard rate, would these dollars be taxable?
 
I would be supprised if the Church did not have lobbists in D.C. trying to pass legistlation that would give them the tax break in the event that they made money.
 
From a business perspective, I take no issue with the Church doing this.  Having been involved with the "Sustainability" community and also knowing the tendency of the church to take credit for everything good in this worlds, I wondered how long it would be until we would hear the dogma or see in the form of propoganda---how the LD$ Church alone was trying to save the earth. 
 
Unfortunately "Sustainabilty" has become nothing more than "Big Business" and polorizing political "thought stopping" themes
 
I could make a personal guarantee that if the Church was able to eliminate the electric bill for all the church buildings, the tithe payer will not get a break. In the mean time peolple like my BIL continue to pay tithing on his unemployment benefits while bitching about how high the national debt has become.
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Posted: 20 October 2015 05:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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WinstonSmith:
A few years ago, I sat in a meeting with someone from the Church's building department. He was telling us about two new prototype meeting houses that would incorporate photovoltaics (active solar). The idea was to take a building that sits vaccant for the majority of daylight hours, capture the solar energy, feed it back into the electrical grid, receiving a credit($) at a wholesale KwH rate; and then repurchase at a standard KwH rate when consummed by the building.  The goal was to break even at the end of the month. Their concern was "tax exemption"---suprise, suprise. In the event that they sold more $ in wholesale energy than $ consumed at a standard rate, would these dollars be taxable?
 
I would be supprised if the Church did not have lobbists in D.C. trying to pass legistlation that would give them the tax break in the event that they made money.
 
From a business perspective, I take no issue with the Church doing this.  Having been involved with the "Sustainability" community and also knowing the tendency of the church to take credit for everything good in this worlds, I wondered how long it would be until we would hear the dogma or see in the form of propoganda---how the LD$ Church alone was trying to save the earth. 
 
Unfortunately "Sustainabilty" has become nothing more than "Big Business" and polorizing political "thought stopping" themes
 
I could make a personal guarantee that if the Church was able to eliminate the electric bill for all the church buildings, the tithe payer will not get a break. In the mean time peolple like my BIL continue to pay tithing on his unemployment benefits while bitching about how high the national debt has become.
 
By golly Holmes, I mean Winston!  It's finally time for me to rejoin and get baptized again. The LDS have it all wrapped up now, their long gently sloping roofs capture photoelectric energies from every angle.
 
From Article: (Utah County, a notoriously Mormon-dense community, has five locations where meetinghouses are close enough in proximity to be considered adjacent to one another, sometimes side-by-side or at 90-degree angles on the same plot of land.) 
 
Every electrical powered car of the future will be in a now empty Mormon parking lot all week long, getting powered up at their park&charge power stations.
 
I crown you the new profiteering prophet.
  
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_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 20 October 2015 09:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
sl-skipper
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The award ws given by Rocky Mountain Power- a utility company with every possible incentive to get people not to conserve electricity. The Rio Tinto Stadium is powered by solar cells, which Rocky Moutain Power is fighting every step of the way, to the point of pressuring the Public Utility Commission (otherwise known as the political arm of Rocky Mountin Power) to double-bill those of us who use solar power.
 
 The fox in charge of the henhouse?
 
Or am I mistaken? It is late and I should be in bed.


   


Posted: 10 December 2015 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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sl-skipper:
The award was given by Rocky Mountain Power- a utility company with every possible incentive to get people not to conserve electricity. The Rio Tinto Stadium is powered by solar cells, which Rocky Moutain Power is fighting every step of the way, to the point of pressuring the Public Utility Commission (otherwise known as the political arm of Rocky Mountin Power) to double-bill those of us who use solar power.
 
 The fox in charge of the henhouse?
 
Or am I mistaken? It is late and I should be in bed.
 
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/solar-panels-at-uw-should-cut-tons-of-carbon-dioxide/article_850109cf-ddc4-545a-878c-7b6e23cd97a3.html
 
Look at the tonnage of CO2 real conservation plans achieve.  Not to overlook the enormous average kilowatts of energy added back into the public's electrical grid.
 
The repetitive doubling down on touting how great the stupid stupid LDS church (small C) saves energy is about almost nauseating.  
 
How about all those trips in the LDS minivan, going to early Mormon seminary, endless meeting after meeting after meeting, LDS temple work, inefficient missionary efforts and gosh I nearly forgot, home teaching?
 
And then there's the upscale Mormon shopping mall!
 
 
 
 
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_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


            
 
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
New Year's Eve Party
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
[Oahu Post Mormon ...] 
Third Thirsty Thursday @ Freemont Street 11/19/15
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (11/1)
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Southern Utah Postmormon Association to meet November 1st at the Red Lion in St. George
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NEW GROUP MEETING SCHEDULE!
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by Chris Sexton 
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
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October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
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October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
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Why I am a Better Mother
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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Leaving LDS Church Well  
Posted: 03 December 2015 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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You could very well benefit from wisdom, real honest wisdom.
 
http://careynieuwhof.com/2015/10/5-ways-for-a-church-member-to-leave-a-church-well/
 
This guy ain't bad.
 
 
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When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
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          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 03 December 2015 12:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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I commented that there is no leaving mormonism (small m) "well". I am forever branded an apostate and some people have turned their backs on me. I'd like to leave "well", but it's not possible.
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Posted: 03 December 2015 06:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Matter Unorganized:
I commented that there is no leaving mormonism (small m) "well". I am forever branded an apostate and some people have turned their backs on me. I'd like to leave "well", but it's not possible.                                        
 
The old-school nametag of the so-called Apostate might be dying. Apostles are closer than they are in simply spelling. Apostles are apostates to what they preach. Lying throughout Mormonism to try and preserve something that is nonexistent from the start. Book Of Abraham, Kinderhook Plates, Joseph Smith screwing his housekeeper Ms. Alger in her fanny while married to his first wife Emma. Israelite DNA. The PeepStone that the Church Of Christ uncovered last month on Joseph Smith's original manuscript that went to the printing press for the first copy of, The Book Of Mormon.
 
Apostate? Yeah right...
 
When you leave carry a copy of all that is wrong with Mormonism. Carry it high. Get your posture back.
 
 
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When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
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          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 03 December 2015 07:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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It's not "apostate" its "a positive."
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 05 December 2015 09:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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It's not important how you leave, just that you do. 

   


Posted: 06 December 2015 02:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Winyan:
It's not important how you leave, just that you do.                                                                                                               
  
Unless you use your 'next life', in waiting for the Mormon church (small C) to stop their constant cover-ups and lying.  All the while watching the LDS pretending to be so rigorously righteous and above reproach.  In another Book Of Mormon Act, worthy of Broadway. 
  
    
 
 
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_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 10 December 2015 05:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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MU,
 
I noticed he didn't reply to your comment but replied to all the other comments.  I felt that it was as if you were invisible on the screen.  Perhaps it was because he cannot identify with the Mo or Post-Mo  culture?
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Posted: 10 December 2015 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Lloyd Dobler
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Matter Unorganized:
I commented that there is no leaving mormonism (small m) "well". I am forever branded an apostate and some people have turned their backs on me. I'd like to leave "well", but it's not possible.
 
 The author is completely missing the fact that some churches are culty enough to have had institutionally caused and socially maintained costs and penalties for leaving the church.  The person leaving has no control over these costs and penalties and therefore no control on how their leaving will play out.  Some people leave mormonism and get lucky.  The rest of us pay a price.
 
Why did my mom tell me I'm a horrible father again?  Because I was not graceful?
Why did my bishop assign a friend to find out about me again? (btw, the friend is now out, lol)
 
I like his message of trying to empower yourself when leaving and trying to do it on your terms. ....but what about when the church is enacting social violoence upon you?  Should we not fight back?  should we let our reputations suffer?
 
clearly the dude was not a mormon. 
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Posted: 10 December 2015 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Leaving because you wanted to sin or were offended, are hard enough reasons to maintain for the LDS church even before 2016 is about to roll in.  When you state real facts upon departing Mormonism the long term plan is reinvigorated. 
 
Removing your name from the LDS registry and clearly stating the articulated reasons has real merit.
 
  
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_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


            
 
 ‹‹ christmas.mormon.org        Any active members here still? ››  
 
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Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
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Pawns in a pew  
Posted: 06 December 2015 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
from the 5th wife
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2012-09-02
 
  
 
If you could start over with life what would you do different?
 
Most of us gave a large portion of our life supporting a church that only took and seldom gave back.
 
If I could do it again I would spend Sundays with friends watching the game with a few beers.
 
I would have gone camping with my family more. My kids loved going up into the mountains and sleep in our camp trailer.  
    If we decided to go camping it was a mad rush to get home from work, get the trailer loaded and head to the mountains where we would get there late after dark, hurry fix something for dinner and go to bed.  DW and I were at this time very tired and and a bit crabby.  Then Saturday the kids would play a bit while DW fixed some breakfast and lunch while I read the preisthood lesson manual to get a lesson ready and then around 4:00 we would head home so we could wake up and get ready for church.  
 
I had Friends at work that invited me time after time to go to the sand dunes on our only day off. ( I had a CR 250 with a paddle tire and it was wicked fast).  I would have loved, loved, loved to go with them but no I had to teach a f****** sunday school lesson every sunday to a handfull of kids who would rather not be there. 
 
We are all so much more than pawns in a pew.  
 
We have value that extends way beyond sitting though countless meetings to plan your next meeting.
 
Life is more than waiting for the storm to pass, hopeing that the next life will be better. Life is about going for a walk in the rain.  Life is about going outside to listen to the thunder. 
 
Happiness is found when we stop comparing ourselves to others.
 
 In church we are cultivated to judge others even though we are taught to NOT judge.  Example.  If someone goes inactive every one thinks they just can't handle the work or they have been offended by some one.  If some one does not take the sacrament ( a form of public shaming in my opinion). people wonder what that person has done wrong.  If a 19 year old young man is late sending in his mission papers people start to think he needs to repent for something.
 
 I am much more than a pawn in a pew.  The world around me has blossomed with possibilities and color since I stopped going to church.  I love life and I look forward to each day. 
 
I woke up one day and decided I did not like what direction my life was going. So I changed direction. 
 
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 06 December 2015 03:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Sunbeep
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   I wish I could replay life and I would certainly do some things differently. Since I was born into the morgish way, I was doomed right out of the gate for the early years of my life. And that programming guided me for the next 30+ years. But, I did eventually see a way to shake the shakles and chart my own way.
 
   I wish I could have avoided those 2 years of pure high grade Hell.  I imagine that I was a rotten missionary and/or companion. But it wasn't my idea to be there. I was only doing what I was told.
 
   My teen years were stolen as I was taught to fear women. If I mingled with girls or women I would end up ruining my life for eternity. What pressure to put on a young mind. If I could replay those years, perhaps my later years would have been much easier and way more enjoyable.
 
    The counseling I got right after returning home from a mission was to get married and start popping out kiddies. So, I married the girl next door who seemed to be pushed in my direction and groomed in the same manner. Then, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, we followed the morg script to the letter. Of course, young married kids with no education meant financial stuggles. Oh Jesus, 6 kids, yup tons of struggles.
 
    I mostly wish I could replay life and have been more involved in my kid's lives and helped them when they needed help. Church seemed more important, but it's not. Church should have taken a back seat in more ways than one.
 
   I won't mention the callings that I held, the time spent sitting in meaningless meetings, the money given, or the anquish of having to speak at the pulpit. I wish I could replay all of that and did something meaningful.
 
  But, it is all history now. I am trying to let my children know of my mistakes and it is working with some of them. 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 06 December 2015 05:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Tessa
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I regret wasting half-a-lifetime....within the walls of the lds church. But over the last 35 years, have been very glad not to have darkened their doors....very freeing.
 
I've been able to choose who to associate with, and what to think about.
 
No need for some bloated "superiority-freak" to tell me how to be.
 
It's been refreshingly simple...just find joy.
 
That's it.
 
No platitudes, no lame scripture-chases....with phrase taken out-of-context.
 
The rest of my life will not be wasted, feeling guilty.
 
I'm truly free.
 Signature
”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 06 December 2015 09:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Winyan
Long Timer
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Joined  2007-10-31
 
  
 
I wish I had not spent so much time and energy obsessing about doing the things mormon women are supposed to do, in order to be considered successful and worthy. Marriage and children are wonderful things. But they don't have anything to do with worthiness or eternal salvation. A person's self esteem shouldn't be built or crushed on whether they marry or have kids. 

   


Posted: 07 December 2015 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Hank
Long Timer
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Joined  2014-08-26
 
  
 
It's hard for me to answer because there were some helpful aspects of belonging to the church, mainly when my exwife left be with 2 small kids. I don't know what my path would have looked like if I hadn't joined the church, but about 18 years after joining and buying in hook, line and sinker I know I would want to change/go back to:
-A non-Mormon extended family with all of its ups and downs
-A non-Mormon wife I could relate to
-Never would have moved to Utah...I sooooo miss it back east
-Not joining the church to begin with
-Not have tried to live the Mormon standards of education and income (which, in essence, translate into keeping up with the Jones'. Admittedly I may look at this differently if I had had more success in my career.
-Connected to the previous point I would have went after the dreams I had which involved things that excited me, but weren't necessarily very profitable.


   


Posted: 07 December 2015 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Celestial Wedgie
Long Timer
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Joined  2010-10-03
 
  
 
If I could start over...
 
...I would ask my first love if we could be lovers. She was a genuine TBM and I was trying very hard to believe. We let the religious convictions hold us back. I'll always regret submitting to that voluntary celibacy.
 
...I would not marry a Mormon girl even though those girls were from my social group, the girls I had grown up with, the girls on whom I had crushes.
 
...I would have gone to a different school for undergrad studies. I went to BYU and received a pretty good education. It certainly challenged me and made me see things that I otherwise would have never learned on my own. But I was so conflicted and torn, repeatedly encountering evidence that the faith of my people was failing me.
 
...I would not have gone on a mission. I loved the learning and it was on my mission that I had my deconversion experience--a matter of minutes and my life path changed permanently. But I also think the mission did me a great deal of emotional harm. I had nightmares about it for decades.
 
What might have been? I really don't know. I'm mostly happy now and I try to play a role in helping others recover from Mormonism. Helping people leave an enslaving lie is a way of promoting truth and it seems like a worthy life quest. I take pleasure in being married again, enjoy nature on a regular basis, have a job that is mostly fulfilling, and have loving contact with my kids. There is enjoyment, learning, and coping with pain, decline, and loss. I have love, which is probably the sweetest part of my life. I also get to watch the slow unfolding of life as it cycles around. I hate to see that my life is more than half over, but it is and so I probably give a little more awareness of the experiences of being alive.
 
If I could start over...it would have to be starting over from today. I like how I am living today.


   


Posted: 08 December 2015 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Avatar
maynardg
Long Timer
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Joined  2014-07-23
 
  
 
Y'all, I agree with everything that y'all have said/written.  But, for me(I am in no way minimizing/diminishing what has been said) if I think of all that HORSESHIT from the morg in my life(all 57 years of it) it both saddens me as well as pisses me off.  How could I have been lead around by my nose for soo long  --  why did it take me so long to find out for myself that the morg is truly built on the foundation of a stinking pile of HORSESHIT.  The fact that I am now free from the morg(and people have left me alone  --  I feel for those of you who are continually stalked by family and friends through their actions and words) has made my life an awesome experience  --  I get to say how my life is going to be.  I'm FREE AT LAST  --  and that is PRICELESS! 

   


Posted: 09 December 2015 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Tessa
Long Timer
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Joined  2008-08-12
 
  
 
Pawns in a Pew = Lucifer in the temple, his apron has the chess board... (or it used to, before any changes.)
 
I remember staring at it many times....then saw pix of George Washington's Masonic Apron, almost identical.
 Signature
”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


            
 
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
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Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
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Third Thirsty Thursday @ Freemont Street 11/19/15
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LDS & General Public Tuesday Dec. 8 at 7 p.m.  
Posted: 05 December 2015 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Mormonism really laid down a steamy turd this time.  General public forums? OMG!
 
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3263745-155/tribune-town-hall-will-explore-how
 
 
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by Brad (ZeeZrom)
the temperature of your caffeine
by Matter Unorganized
Not Angry, A little confused, and a lot scared
by peace out
Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed--Many Wives--Had The Innocent Killed
by Strong Free & Thankful
Ghawd is anti-immigration?
by Hank
Mickelsen's "Dirty Linen"
by Matter Unorganized
Porn, Good or Bad?
by Quartersawn
Help with 12 minute video about dna. Need a rebuttal
by Strong Free & Thankful
The published journals of a gay apostate Mormon missionary
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"It's not Stockholm Syndrome, I stay because The Spirit™ told me to!"
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
New Year's Eve Party
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
[Oahu Post Mormon ...] 
Third Thirsty Thursday @ Freemont Street 11/19/15
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (11/1)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah Postmormon Association to meet November 1st at the Red Lion in St. George
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
NEW GROUP MEETING SCHEDULE!
[San Diego Post-Mo...] 


 Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder


            

Home Our Community
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God Isn’t Fixing This (Newspaper Headline)  
Posted: 03 December 2015 11:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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It is becoming obvious that terrorists do plan to bring terrorsim to the US--and already have to a small degree.  This could be the tip of an iceberg.  Perhaps those who spend a lot of time in religion, church meetings, etc, need to realize that whoever they consider god to be, he is not fixing this.  If there is a god, good energy--whatever--perhaps we are his hands.  We need to step up to the plate and figure out a solution to this problem.  Educating the young in the Middle East?  We had best all be pulling together while there is still time.  Wating for Christ or Allah to come back and save us is not a good answer--in my opinion.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/thoughts-and-prayers-san-bernardino-backlash-152811604.html
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 03 December 2015 12:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Oooh Oooh maybe this is the time that monson will glow with bright light and utter a real unction from ... nah never mind ... Religion is dead ended. We are all we have got. Fear may have to be replaced by the actual feared events to get through fear and eventually embrace love. 
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Posted: 03 December 2015 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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What pisses me off most is that these events play right into the hands of doomsday believers. "Signs of the times!" they cry. "Prophecy fulfilled!"
 
Still waiting for TSM to come out and say "It's time for us to hie to Jackson County, MO. Leave your homes, your jobs, your non-believing loved ones behind, the Lord has commanded us to gather together and await judgment day..."
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Posted: 03 December 2015 01:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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My 2 cents:
 
It will be the believers that save this world.
 
Yes!!! you read correctly---the believers---believers in science, believers in common sense  and believers in rational thought, they are the worlds hope for the future.
 
The doubters, they who worship in mysticism, they that doubt the visible evidence in this beautiful world---it is this doubter, who is the problem, because they refuse to be part of a solution in the name of religion.
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 03 December 2015 07:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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The church is too busy buying land in Florida and pawning it out for the next 60 years. No apocalypse for them. It's almost like "Jesus who?" Oh...that guy Paul/Saul made up while wandering around Greece pretending to "know" Jesus, and selling him as Mithras/Zeus/Ra/Osirus..etc. etc.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 03 December 2015 11:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Jesus doesn't matter. At least there are entire cultures that feel this way.  And it is in these regions where there is a near-to perfect, 'Jesus Vacuum' that tries to still exist in these modern day times. The area is called, 'The Middle East', and it is not about to change.
 
Still think Jesus doesn't matter?  Why might it be that, God keeps the largest lesson in life alive for anyone willing to stop and take a look?
 
 
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-Nothing beats a failure like a try 
_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 04 December 2015 12:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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josephs myth:
 
Jesus doesn't matter. At least there are entire cultures that feel this way.  And it is in these regions where there is a near-to perfect, 'Jesus Vacuum' that tries to still exist in these modern day times. The area is called, 'The Middle East', and it is not about to change.
 
Still think Jesus doesn't matter?  Why might it be that, God keeps the largest lesson in life alive for anyone willing to stop and take a look?
 
 
 
During the transitional time between maybe the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries on earth the world was forever changed into what it is today, and it is in these free societies where free men are armed. Terror once controlled the lands with "Men in shining (armour) armor", castles ruled and illiterate civilians abounded.
 
Enter three nearly simultaneously occurring things into the world about to change everything.
 
The Gutenberg printing press. Martin Luther and his ideas on freedom and sources of opression. And lastly, black-powder getting forever renamed (for good reason) into gunn powder, later to be shortened to what we know today as gun powder.
 
Eliminated were the use of castles to separate people from their oppressors by employing just three sample concepts. (one being cannonball) heh-heh
 
 
 
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_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 04 December 2015 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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In my estimation, the whole title is a fear mongering cop out effort. How long has "god" had the opportunity to work on t(his) middle eastern dilemma and resolve the many issues? This is all brought on by mankind's inability to get along, , not some god pulling the strings over several thousand years, to make this happen.
 
Somewhere on my Yahoo News feed the other day, there was a one sentence explanation of ISIS ...its all there in a rather large nutshell. One sentence pretty much says it all.....


   


Posted: 04 December 2015 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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former victim:
In my estimation, the whole title is a fear mongering cop out effort. How long has "god" had the opportunity to work on t(his) middle eastern dilemma and resolve the many issues? This is all brought on by mankind's inability to get along, , not some god pulling the strings over several thousand years, to make this happen.
 
Somewhere on my Yahoo News feed the other day, there was a one sentence explanation of ISIS ...its all there in a rather large nutshell. One sentence pretty much says it all.....
 
 
Maybe ISIS is the nutshell!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPlREDW-Ro&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
And as far as interventional revolutionary moves with regard to a heavy handed freedom of speech, look to Iran.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urjXMX6GA-Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  
 
 
 
 Signature
-Nothing beats a failure like a try 
_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 05 December 2015 06:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Strong Free & Thankful:
It is becoming obvious that terrorists do plan to bring terrorsim to the US--and already have to a small degree.  This could be the tip of an iceberg.  Perhaps those who spend a lot of time in religion, church meetings, etc, need to realize that whoever they consider god to be, he is not fixing this.  If there is a god, good energy--whatever--perhaps we are his hands.  We need to step up to the plate and figure out a solution to this problem.  Educating the young in the Middle East?  We had best all be pulling together while there is still time.  Wating for Christ or Allah to come back and save us is not a good answer--in my opinion.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/thoughts-and-prayers-san-bernardino-backlash-152811604.html
 
 Recently, I had the great priviledge of hosting a Jehovah's Witness couple who graciously informed me the world was "going to hell in a handbasket" (or some such doomsday prophesy).  Tales were told about how even in China the old and infirm were abandonded by the side of the road to end their days alone.  OH yes!  How wicked humanity had become . . (well, you get the idea).
 
After listening patiently (I am a courteous person in the face of lunacy), I posed this question to them, "What are you going to do about it?"
 
There was complete and utter silence along with blank stares.  After a bit, I quietly said,
 
"I'll tell you what I am going to do about it!  I am going to be more tolerant of those whose beliefs are different than mine.  I will cease to be judgemental and more willing to offer aid and service when needed. What needs to stop is the forceful propoganda being spread by ANY religion that theirs is the "true religion" and everybody needs to think like them."
 
The world is not going to end, the wicked will not be burned, anyone who thinks they will be "caught up" and saved is highly mistaken!  To quote Christopher Hitchens, "It is wicked!"
 
 We will be the only means of relieving the suffering, pain and injustice that plagues us right now.  And, unfortunately, it is never convenient when someone needs our help!
 
My thanks to Strong Free & Thankful for kindly making that point. 
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Galileo Galilei


   


Posted: 05 December 2015 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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I agree, Granny Annie.  The buck stops here and we, the inhabitants of this earth, have to find the ways to save us--if we are to be saved.  Good job in placing this before your friends.  I have a number of JW families in my neighborhood.  They are really good people but spend their time/energy trying to convert others and helping each other.  One told me they were going to miss me in the next life as I was not going to be there.    I told him not to give it a second thought and if I had to join a religion to be there--it was the last place I wanted to be.   
 
Edited to Add:  Here is a man who is changing the world.  Beautiful--Just Beautiful!  
 
https://gma.yahoo.com/california-man-builds-houses-homeless-shares-video-homeless-154504719--abc-news-house-and-home.html#
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


            
 
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Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
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Churches Can Shrink & Fail Others Grow  
Posted: 05 November 2015 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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http://www.christiantoday.com/article/america.is.building.churches.again.decline.has.bottomed.out.say.analysts/69290.htm
 
http://www.rightsidenews.com/life-and-science/culture-wars/christians-are-at-war-with-one-another-as-americans-leave-the-church-in-droves/
 
Thorough transparency, honesty and integrity might be key factors.
 
 
 
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When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 05 November 2015 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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now if only those non believers and unaffiliated would vote 

   


Posted: 05 November 2015 06:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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I think the poll data is a much better indicator than new construction, which can depend on the economy.
 
I also think the author of the second article is missing the boat. I think folks, especially younger folk, are suffering from "we're under attack" fatigue.  A significant portion of Christian leaders have had a bunker mentality for much of my lifetime. One can only cry wolf so often.
 
 
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Phillip K. Dick


   


Posted: 05 November 2015 08:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Wrong thread
 
 
 


   


Posted: 06 November 2015 06:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Hank
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Neither article did much for me, although I agree in your summary JM, that it goes back to more information being freely avilable.
 
Article #1 talks about new church construction, but there are many old churches crumbling in bad neighborhoods across the country. I would bet the new construction is from (a) a church moving to a new neighborhood; or (b) a new church taking members away from others because the new pastor is cool/slick/caring/helpful/Christ-like, etc. IMO most protestant churches are cults of personality, so membership is always moving around.
 
Article #2 is talking about what has been going on since Martin Luther. Some religious feller reads the Bible, disagrees with his pastor's interpretation and eventually starts his own church based on that difference of interpretation. Christians like to state that they are the body of Christ, but that body has always been disjointed, confused, mangled and in the end,self destructive.


   


Posted: 06 November 2015 07:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Hank:
Neither article did much for me, although I agree in your summary JM, that it goes back to more information being freely avilable.
 
Article #1 talks about new church construction, but there are many old churches crumbling in bad neighborhoods across the country. I would bet the new construction is from (a) a church moving to a new neighborhood; or (b) a new church taking members away from others because the new pastor is cool/slick/caring/helpful/Christ-like, etc. IMO most protestant churches are cults of personality, so membership is always moving around.
 
Article #2 is talking about what has been going on since Martin Luther. Some religious feller reads the Bible, disagrees with his pastor's interpretation and eventually starts his own church based on that difference of interpretation. Christians like to state that they are the body of Christ, but that body has always been disjointed, confused, mangled and in the end, self destructive.
 
 
There seems to be a sustainable need for the nondenominational local Christian Church for several reasons.  Not necessarily qualifying as a mega-Church thereby consisting of maybe more than anywhere from 1200 to several thousand members meeting together at one location on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings. (due to their extra large size)
 
 
Most of the faster growing nondenominational churches have possibly a few qualities helping their numbers to increase.
 
First, they have no financial obligations to a denomination which allows for more resources to flow into the community.
 
Then, they also are appearing much more independent and flexible because they are not controlled by denominational boards and councils. This allows pastors to act fast and make adjustments as needed.
 
Finally, the foundational Bible studies for the youth really help in preventing the scooping up by cults like Mormonism, Jehovah's Wittnesses and Scientology.  Dare I add Christian Science groups into that bag of nutz.
 
Vulnerable people untaught and left over from about two generations after 1776 became fodder for The Second Great Awakening (read snoozing) here in America.  Yup, you guessed right. Upstate New York! 
 
 
 Signature
-Nothing beats a failure like a try 
_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 06 November 2015 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Hank
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josephs myth:
Hank:
Neither article did much for me, although I agree in your summary JM, that it goes back to more information being freely avilable.
 
Article #1 talks about new church construction, but there are many old churches crumbling in bad neighborhoods across the country. I would bet the new construction is from (a) a church moving to a new neighborhood; or (b) a new church taking members away from others because the new pastor is cool/slick/caring/helpful/Christ-like, etc. IMO most protestant churches are cults of personality, so membership is always moving around.
 
Article #2 is talking about what has been going on since Martin Luther. Some religious feller reads the Bible, disagrees with his pastor's interpretation and eventually starts his own church based on that difference of interpretation. Christians like to state that they are the body of Christ, but that body has always been disjointed, confused, mangled and in the end, self destructive.
 
 
There seems to be a sustainable need for the nondenominational local Christian Church for several reasons.  Not necessarily qualifying as a mega-Church thereby consisting of maybe more than anywhere from 1200 to several thousand members meeting together at one location on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings. (due to their extra large size)
 
 
Most of the faster growing nondenominational churches have possibly a few qualities helping their numbers to increase.
 
First, they have no financial obligations to a denomination which allows for more resources to flow into the community.
 
Then, they also are appearing much more independent and flexible because they are not controlled by denominational boards and councils. This allows pastors to act fast and make adjustments as needed.
 
Finally, the foundational Bible studies for the youth really help in preventing the scooping up by cults like Mormonism, Jehovah's Wittnesses and Scientology.  Dare I add Christian Science groups into that bag of nutz.
 
Vulnerable people untaught and left over from about two generations after 1776 became fodder for The Second Great Awakening (read snoozing) here in America.  Yup, you guessed right. Upstate New York! 
 
 
 
 I've been to non-denominational churches. The one's with the most success seemed to have that success because of the pastor(s), more so than a philosophical/spiritual conviction.Not always, but majority of the time. Some of these were very good peeps...don't get me wrong. I remember one in particular that was having good success, pastor was a great, humble feller, but when he moved on, the church fell apart.
 
The 2nd Great Delirium was indeed centered in Upstate NY. Home sweet home. The evangelists, after preaching to all the rich, decided to turn their attention to the common man. And the Burned Over District was filled with common people who were in crisis mode and open to "spiritual experiences". Smith tapped into that.
 
Plus you have to remember that bleeding people was considered good medicine practice back then, so the term "educated" was very relative.Even educated peeps were often superstitious and had some sort of magical thinking.
 
Just dawned on me that more people join churches when economies suck. Maybe that's why some are joining churches now. Looking for hope.


   


Posted: 07 November 2015 02:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Hank:
josephs myth:
 
There seems to be a sustainable need for the nondenominational local Christian Church for several reasons. Not necessarily qualifying as a mega-Church thereby consisting of maybe more than anywhere from 1200 to several thousand members meeting together at one location on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings.
(due to their extra large size)
 
 
Most of the faster growing nondenominational churches have possibly a few qualities helping their numbers to increase.
 
First, they have no financial obligations to a denomination which allows for more resources to flow into the community.
 
Then, they also are appearing much more independent and flexible because they are not controlled by denominational boards and councils. This allows pastors to act fast and make adjustments as needed.
 
Finally, the foundational Bible studies for the youth really help in preventing the scooping up by cults like Mormonism, Jehovah's Wittnesses and Scientology.  Dare I add Christian Science groups into that bag of nutz.
 
Vulnerable people untaught and left over from about two generations after 1776 became fodder for The Second Great Awakening (read snoozing) here in America.  Yup, you guessed right. Upstate New York! 
 
 
 
 I've been to non-denominational churches. The one's with the most success seemed to have that success because of the pastor(s), more so than a philosophical/spiritual conviction.Not always, but majority of the time. Some of these were very good peeps...don't get me wrong. I remember one in particular that was having good success, pastor was a great, humble feller, but when he moved on, the church fell apart.
 
The 2nd Great Delirium was indeed centered in Upstate NY. Home sweet home. The evangelists, after preaching to all the rich, decided to turn their attention to the common man. And the Burned Over District was filled with common people who were in crisis mode and open to "spiritual experiences". Smith tapped into that.
 
Plus you have to remember that bleeding people was considered good medicine practice back then, so the term "educated" was very relative.Even educated peeps were often superstitious and had some sort of magical thinking.
 
Just dawned on me that more people join churches when economies suck. Maybe that's why some are joining churches now. Looking for hope.
 
 
I don't know, booms in silver and mineral rights (including uranium) sure helped Mormonism inside of the Utah territories. Oil and water rights pulled their own weight too.  Money talks and has for ages and I guess we'll have to see how far it continues to carry Mormonism.  And carrying an ephebophile worshiping, underwear fetish religion.
 
I'm so so boring now.  I simply attend a Jesus saving community. 
 
 
 
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Posted: 02 December 2015 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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http://m.christianpost.com/news/florida-ridgewood-baptist-church-experiencs-miraculous-growth-merging-black-shiloh-metropolitan-megachurch-150730/
 
At least the diminished  wards can see how some others are doing it. 
 
 
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Posted: 02 December 2015 08:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Religion....war...religion...war...zzzz.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 03 December 2015 02:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Tessa:
Religion....war...religion...war...zzzz.                                                                                                                                       
 
Rodney King, "Can't We All Just Get Along?", an easy quote with an easy answer even a child could maybe understand. 
 
Uhh... "No!", we really cannot maybe seem to get along.
 
Hitler wasn't into religion that much.  Only superstitions.  Oooo... and that Aryans-Race thing!  Snope that one for a giant surprise.
 
Mormonism almost beats the scam, maybe.  I'll have to snope Mormonism, if just for fun.
  
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 ‹‹ Am I banned or something???        That 2nd Article of Faith, about not being punished for the sins of others? Throw it out... ››  
 
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Multi-stake conferences today with SLC broadcast  
Posted: 08 November 2015 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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The broadcast was planned before the handbook cluster@#$@ so I wonder what the original message was going to be and what it will be now. 
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Posted: 08 November 2015 05:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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My prediction? It will be a lot of hot air like that stupid video they released after the announcement. Basically clarifying nothing. 

   


Posted: 08 November 2015 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Nothing to report here (Calgary, Alberta). I took the kids to church in the wife's absence and there was no mention of it at all. 
 
We had a multi-stake meeting earlier this year. It was just because some GA was in town (Nelson). Nothing special; no big announcements. Apparently (according to DW) at the end of his talk he held his hands in the air and gave an "apostolic blessing". All the local mormons were gushing over it. 6 months later and nothing has changed, no increase in baptisms, no increase in temple attendance...
 
Maybe he was just speaking "as a man".  
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Posted: 08 November 2015 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized:
Nothing to report here (Calgary, Alberta). I took the kids to church in the wife's absence and there was no mention of it at all. 
 
We had a multi-stake meeting earlier this year. It was just because some GA was in town (Nelson). Nothing special; no big announcements. Apparently (according to DW) at the end of his talk he held his hands in the air and gave an "apostolic blessing". All the local mormons were gushing over it. 6 months later and nothing has changed, no increase in baptisms, no increase in temple attendance...
 
Maybe he was just speaking "as a man".  
 
 The old bait and switch routine. Joseph Smith would be proud to see how the organization he established behaves. 
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 ‹‹ The temple is a vehicle of self-deception        Will the Temple Ceremony be changed again? ››  
 
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My thoughts on the handbook changes  
Posted: 07 November 2015 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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I've pondered about this move by the Mormon leadership a lot in the past few days. There are a few thoughts that stand out to me...
 
It took time for those handbooks to be written, proofed and printed. In my mind, it means the mormon leadership supported legislation on equal rights for LBGTQ people at probably the same time they were changing the handbook. Sneaky bastards.
 
This move was probably to cut down on support of gays from family members still inside the mo church. There are a lot of mormon members supporting gay people, even very influential people in society. If the mormon church hates gays then they need to paint those people as untrustworthy to other members. They do this by telling members that their peers are stupid or evil if they don't follow "counsel". 
 
Also, fifteen old, white men got together in a room and asked God of he felt weird about gay people. The answer was a resounding, "Yes".
 
Anybody really surprised?
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Posted: 07 November 2015 06:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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What an interesting insight! Thanks for taking the time to post that. In my mind there's little doubt that the change will hurt a lot of kids. The really interesting question that remained was about motive. You shed light on that mystery.  

   


Posted: 07 November 2015 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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This reminds me of a few years back when a certain loud mouth commentator famously spoke against the movie "Brokeback Mountain" because he said it would "humanize" homosexuals.  It was sobering to me to realize that there were people who were afraid that LGBT persons would be "humanized" as if they were otherwise sub-human and worthy of rejection and hate.  
 
I agree, MoreThanMo, that the mormon church is similarly afraid that having children of gays and lesbians taking full part in church life will "humanize" the gay parents.  They want LGBT people to be considered "less than" and can't risk their kids generating any sympathy or understanding.  
 
In Luke 18:16 Jesus said... 
"Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. "  He didn't put limitations on who the parents are.  But then again, he didn't have the benefit of the Handbook, so...  
 
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Posted: 07 November 2015 11:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I am going to side with the church on this one because of their argument not to create conflict inside the kids. They also reaffrim and defend traditional marriage. Although the history of the church is a colorful one: standing for traditional marriage is not something you can take away from them. They don't have a solid foundation from the past, they don't have good leaders, they basically don't have a prayer. But I do see the good that would come from the nurturing of traditional marriage. Why put their handbook affirmation against them? Nobody's telling you that you can't be gay. Be gay, be merry, have at it. Who's stopping you? Not the church!
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Posted: 08 November 2015 12:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Starfleet:
I am going to side with the church on this one because of their argument not to create conflict inside the kids. They also reaffrim and defend traditional marriage. Although the history of the church is a colorful one: standing for traditional marriage is not something you can take away from them. They don't have a solid foundation from the past, they don't have good leaders, they basically don't have a prayer. But I do see the good that would come from the nurturing of traditional marriage. Why put their handbook affirmation against them? Nobody's telling you that you can't be gay. Be gay, be merry, have at it. Who's stopping you? Not the church!                                                                                                                                                                             
 
Here's the weirdness in that thinking.  Jesus would baptize the kids, more than welcome them into his community of believers.
 
So the simple acid test seems likely to suggest Mormonism is building something other than a group of believers.  You may have Stockholm Syndrome, and why not be merry about that? 
 
Where O' where did the idea get generated that the LDS church wants children un-conflicted?  
I mean, C'mon!  Conflicted children is what Mormonism might be truly all about, they're the kings of cog dis!
 
Mormon kid's association with cog-dis is love and comfort.  You might even believe cog-dis is cozy.  Am I right?  
 
 
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Posted: 08 November 2015 03:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Starfleet:
I am going to side with the church on this one because of their argument not to create conflict inside the kids. They also reaffrim and defend traditional marriage. Although the history of the church is a colorful one: standing for traditional marriage is not something you can take away from them. They don't have a solid foundation from the past, they don't have good leaders, they basically don't have a prayer. But I do see the good that would come from the nurturing of traditional marriage. Why put their handbook affirmation against them? Nobody's telling you that you can't be gay. Be gay, be merry, have at it. Who's stopping you? Not the church!
 
 Mormonism was founded on untraditional marriage. Multiple partners. Marrying young girls and other mens' wives. In fact, that was taught as the key to your exaltation. And it still is. Just one live wife at a time now. But eternal polygamy is alive and well.
 
They would like to deny that, or at least hope that people disremember it. But it takes a lot of gall for them to be preaching traditional marriage. And what they're doing to the innocent children of untraditional marriages now is reprehensible in my opinion.


   


Posted: 08 November 2015 04:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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tab
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Starfleet:
I am going to side with the church on this one because of their argument not to create conflict inside the kids. They also reaffrim and defend traditional marriage. Although the history of the church is a colorful one: standing for traditional marriage is not something you can take away from them. They don't have a solid foundation from the past, they don't have good leaders, they basically don't have a prayer. But I do see the good that would come from the nurturing of traditional marriage. Why put their handbook affirmation against them? Nobody's telling you that you can't be gay. Be gay, be merry, have at it. Who's stopping you? Not the church!
 
 
Regarding the policy. Perhaps morality is doing what is right, no matter what you are told. Whereas, religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.
re: "But I do see the good that would come from the nurturing of traditional marriage." Can you explain how excluding same gender couples and their children further this objective?
Conflict considerations:
1. Cohabiting with a non-Mormon - child received a name and a blessing.
2. Married to a non-Mormon - child received name and blessing and was baptized.
3. Couple divorced, custodial parent left church - child, who had already received name and blessing, baptized.
4. Two Mormons cohabiting - children receive name and blessing and get baptized.
These are real world situations and more - but policy allows those children the ordinances and blessings but not the children of same-gender parents.
---->> All the same conflicts exist, so why target one group but not others?
Children with parents involved in other serious transgressions such as murder, rape, drug addiction, sexual abuse, spouse abuse, or apostasy are not prohibited from baptism, nor required to disavow their parent's actions. This policy would prohibit even children of an active LDS heterosexual single parent from being baptized if the child's other parent left the marriage to pursue a same sex relationship despite that parent's consent for the baptism. Even if the noncustodial parent "repented," the child couldn't be baptized until 18 with Church approval. When evaluated carefully, this policy does not protect children or provide consent. It prohibits all individuals who have ever participated in a same sex relationship and their children from being members of the Church until they are adults with special permission and requires them to disavow support for same sex relationships as a condition of membership. It restricts membership based on the actions of others and promotes conflict.
From the National Catholic Reporter: "As the pope said, "If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them?"
Our parish motto is "All Are Welcome." We really mean it. That includes LGBT people, too. We welcome them to the Eucharist if they are Catholics. We baptize their children. We register the children in our activities and programs, just like any child. Welcome means welcome.
I am not the bedroom police. I do not quiz people on their private lives. I do not know who is sleeping with a boyfriend or girlfriend. I do not know who is cheating on a spouse. But one thing I know for sure: One hundred percent of the people who come to Communion at every Mass in the history of the world are sinners; redeemed sinners.
In a conservative parish like mine, the presence of LGBT people is not generally a big issue, but it does exist. We have a few same-sex couples in our parish. At least two couples have been married civilly. They live quietly, devoutly and humbly."
re: "Nobody's telling you that you can't be gay. Be gay, be merry, have at it. Who's stopping you? Not the church!"
"It’s more than tragic—in fact it’s shameful—that faith communities, especially Christian ones, continue to be complicit in putting our children at risk and abetting the attitudes that oppress them, thereby encouraging the aggressors who would subject our children to pain, humiliation, and violence. LGBT men and women will continue to be vulnerable to the sins of homophobia and heterosexism, to the violence of hate and fear until we in the church can say to homosexuals now what it has said to heterosexuals for 2,000 years. Your sexuality is good. The church not only accepts it. The church celebrates it and rejoices in it. God loves you as you are, and the church can do no less." - 2014 Episcopal Message - National Cathedral 

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Posted: 08 November 2015 06:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Absent Minded Housewife
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Starfleet:
I am going to side with the church on this one because of their argument not to create conflict inside the kids. They also reaffrim and defend traditional marriage. Although the history of the church is a colorful one: standing for traditional marriage is not something you can take away from them. They don't have a solid foundation from the past, they don't have good leaders, they basically don't have a prayer. But I do see the good that would come from the nurturing of traditional marriage. Why put their handbook affirmation against them? Nobody's telling you that you can't be gay. Be gay, be merry, have at it. Who's stopping you? Not the church!
 
 That's what they say now, when they have to make an excuse.
Keep in mind that they fought hard against protecting these children before this.  Children were already living in cohabiting homosexual homes without the protections that a simple legal marriage contract would offer them.  The church deems these relationships as counterfeit, therefore these children should have their lives and homes upended when relationships may end in death or by decision. 
The question that is also raised is why single out these kids in particular?  Human natures are messy and nuanced.  There are many children raised in less than traditional straight homes.  Why not offer the compassion of a case by case basis when it comes to the rite of baptism?  This line in the sand thinking is not just throwing the first stone but dropping a boulder in violation of many of their own articles of faith.
I cannot think of why the simple rite of a baby blessing has to be included in their witch hunt at all.
Becky
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Posted: 08 November 2015 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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I'm waiting for the first mormon-generated child, who comes up to a child with gay parents...and mouths off in front of others...and a mob ensues.
 
I hope the parents sue the socks off the TBM parents for discrimination.
 
This could get very interesting.
 
"Jesus wept."
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Posted: 08 November 2015 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet
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When I was in the church in the Young Women's program - we tried to fellowship those girls that weren't in the ideal home situations.  Those with inactive parents - hey, can I give you a ride to church?  It was thought that getting those girls to church would give them a more stable life.  Left with their inactive parents those girls would be inactive themselves, marry non mormons, make poor choices. 
 
We had girls with parents in jail, girls who were pregnant, girls in really bad relationships. 
 
Now of course me personally - I think its far better for these kids to not have LDS influence where their families would be demonized.  But it's no different than the lectures we got in Young Womens about how horrible it is to marry outside the church - when many of the girls listening weren't born "in the covenant". 
 
Not wanting to conflict the young children, pardon me while I LOL about that one.  I came from a BIC family that couldn't be more Mormon.  All I was taught at church was conflict.  People outside the church aren't really happy. The only true happiness lies in the church.  Society says one thing and the church says another.   (However this wasn't what I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears.  My nevermo peers didn't seem unhappy.)
 
I was under so much strain and conflict growing up in the church (In my textbook Mormon household) that I was chronically ill, chronically depressed, chronically conflicted. 
 
I didn't know peace until I "took a break" from the church and the peace I felt eventually made it impossible for me to return.  Outside the church, peace and happiness.  Inside the church chronic conflict and crushing expectations. 
 
I wish they had just made it so NOBODY got baptized before the age of 18 to "protect the children."   
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Lawyer will help you with your resignation for free  
Posted: 07 November 2015 11:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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RobinM
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Saw this on FB, thought I'd also share here. And while an attorney is not required, from related posts & responses, having one send in the request for you seems ton decrease the possibility that leadership will contact you & speeds up the whole process.
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3rqbhf/i_am_here_and_ready_to_process_your_resignations/"> https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3rqbhf/i_am_here_and_ready_to_process_your_resignations/
 
He goes by Chubs Gato on reddit. You can PM him there for details.
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“The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.”
~Albert Einstein


   


Posted: 07 November 2015 08:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Morethanmo
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Does the link work?
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__________________________________________

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
__________________________________________


   


Posted: 08 November 2015 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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RobinM
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Morethanmo:
Does the link work?
 
 Ugh. I don't know why my links keep failing 
 
Let's try another one:
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3oiar8/keep_the_resignation_requests_coming/ 
 
 
 
 If this doesn't work, the lawyer is /u/chubs_gato on reddit. You can search and find him that way. He posts on /r/exmormon. You will have to sign up to reddit to pm him. If you don't want to do that, let me know. I can try to get his email on your behalf. 
 Signature
“Curiosity killed the cat, but where human beings are concerned, the only thing a healthy curiosity can kill is ignorance”
~Harry Lorayne
“The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.”
~Albert Einstein


   


            
 
 ‹‹ LDS Facebook Resignations Gain Support        Children of gay couples now inherit heaven automatically? ››  
 
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New Insight and a determination to resign  
Posted: 07 November 2015 07:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Troubled Wife
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11 years ago, I discovered different and conflicting versions of "The First Vision", and realized the foundation of my belief in Mormonism had just fallen apart.  The rest of my testimony quickly came falling down around me when I realized that it's all true or all false, wasn't true at all. In fact, if you use that measuring stick, it would have to be all false!
I wanted to resign. I talked to family. Everyone except my husband was fine with that decision. However, my husband requested that I NOT resign.  Because I loved him so much, and because I hadn't fully processed my 'apostacy' I have honored his request.
However, with Thursday's "policy change", I realized that my veiw on resignation had changed.
During my 'leaving', I realized that 'removing' my name doesn't ever really happen. Someone who had never been Mormon had once told me that, and included telling me that because I had chosen to be baptized (even though I was 8, and wasn't fully aware of what I was doing), I would always be counted as among the Mormons.
I had objected to her musings, and rejected her ideas. But, I was a very hard-core TBM at that time. Since then, I learned that my name, indeed, was never 'removed' but just 'moved' from one file and put into another!  So, resigning seemed a bit unneccessary to me. Just be 'inactive' and drop out of the church.  Heck, I had been doing that off and on for over 30 years!
Now, I see that by resigning, my name may never be 'removed', but at least it will show that I objected to being part of a culture that would discriminate against a people, and harm those people's children!
So, I made the decision to resign. As soon as possible. Damn my husband's wishes for me NOT to resign. I am revising my letter of resignation, making sure that whoever, if anyone, reads it, understands that I not only 'lost my faith', but cannot condone the hurting of innocent children and specifically denies the teachings of a person they claim to worship.
I just wish I could really know how many people are actually going to be 'leaving' over this issue. I wish we could have a place for people to send their 'letters' aside from the church. Someplace where someone could check, cross check, and verify how many people have actually 'left' and how it would change the numbers the church purports to have a 'members'. But, even that doesn't cause me as much regret as currently being counted as a member of a group of people that would hurt children and legally protected families!
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Posted: 07 November 2015 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Soft cults like Mormonism are worse than hard cults like the FLDS groups.
 
Say it with me, "I was in a cult!", and let the healing carry on.
 
This sometimes takes decades to achieve. Like I said already, it's worse.
 
 
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Posted: 07 November 2015 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Morethanmo
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Troubled Wife:
11 years ago, I discovered different and conflicting versions of "The First Vision", and realized the foundation of my belief in Mormonism had just fallen apart.  The rest of my testimony quickly came falling down around me when I realized that it's all true or all false, wasn't true at all. In fact, if you use that measuring stick, it would have to be all false!
I wanted to resign. I talked to family. Everyone except my husband was fine with that decision. However, my husband requested that I NOT resign.  Because I loved him so much, and because I hadn't fully processed my 'apostacy' I have honored his request.
However, with Thursday's "policy change", I realized that my veiw on resignation had changed.
During my 'leaving', I realized that 'removing' my name doesn't ever really happen. Someone who had never been Mormon had once told me that, and included telling me that because I had chosen to be baptized (even though I was 8, and wasn't fully aware of what I was doing), I would always be counted as among the Mormons.
I had objected to her musings, and rejected her ideas. But, I was a very hard-core TBM at that time. Since then, I learned that my name, indeed, was never 'removed' but just 'moved' from one file and put into another!  So, resigning seemed a bit unneccessary to me. Just be 'inactive' and drop out of the church.  Heck, I had been doing that off and on for over 30 years!
Now, I see that by resigning, my name may never be 'removed', but at least it will show that I objected to being part of a culture that would discriminate against a people, and harm those people's children!
So, I made the decision to resign. As soon as possible. Damn my husband's wishes for me NOT to resign. I am revising my letter of resignation, making sure that whoever, if anyone, reads it, understands that I not only 'lost my faith', but cannot condone the hurting of innocent children and specifically denies the teachings of a person they claim to worship.
I just wish I could really know how many people are actually going to be 'leaving' over this issue. I wish we could have a place for people to send their 'letters' aside from the church. Someplace where someone could check, cross check, and verify how many people have actually 'left' and how it would change the numbers the church purports to have a 'members'. But, even that doesn't cause me as much regret as currently being counted as a member of a group of people that would hurt children and legally protected families!
 
 If you want to join a mass resignation, there are two Facebook groups. 
 Signature
__________________________________________

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
__________________________________________


   


Posted: 07 November 2015 10:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
Long Timer
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josephs myth:
 
Soft cults like Mormonism are worse than hard cults like the FLDS groups.
 
Say it with me, "I was in a cult!", and let the healing carry on.
 
This sometimes takes decades to achieve. Like I said already, it's worse.
 
 
 
 I agree with you here josephs myth.  Some will go to their graves never knowing their lives were stolen from them--a day at a time, a dollar at a time.  How sad is that?  Soft cults are more difficult to understand just what the hell happened.   Yes--say it so the healing can begin and carry on because it will come in layers.  "I was in a cult."  Being angry is part of knowing what was done to you was not OK.  Anger is part of the healing.
 Signature
I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


            
 
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