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FranklinGrahamLSnewJMG

Franklin Graham: Obama Is Probably Going To Hell For Celebrating Homosexual Sin [AUDIO]
?October 5, 2015 ?Crackpots, Religion



Franklin Graham says that one day President Obama and all gay people will probably spend an “eternity separated from God” due to all this homo-celebrating. Via Glenn Beck’s The Blaze:

“Our country has changed so much, and we’ve seen the moral decline — and that moral decline being led by the Obama administration, and championing things like same-sex marriage, which is really defiance against God,” Graham said. “Same-sex marriage is a sin against God. God made us male and female.” “And then to say that marriage is between two men or two women, this is sin and the Obama administration is celebrating sin and they are pushing sin,” he continued. While Graham said that he wasn’t trying to bash gays and lesbians, he said that he wanted to let them know that their actions — in his eyes — are not in line with God’s purpose for their lives.

  



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Avatar
Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






What happens when Graham dies - does he get 72 virgin Duggar girls to hump greedily?
 
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Todd20036 > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






They aren't virgins.
 
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Jean-Marc in Canada > Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






Josh tested, Duggar approved "virgins"
 
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Christopher > Jean-Marc in Canada  • 5 months ago 






Well, he is an expert!
 
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Hereweare > Christopher  • 5 months ago 






When my copy arrived, the pages were stuck together, and well.......we won't talk about the DVD.......
 
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Joseph Miceli > Christopher  • 5 months ago 






Can I get that through Reader's Digest?
 
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Sam_Handwich > Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






just a little wear and tear - nothing like mom
 
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Stogiebear > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






yet
 
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bkmn > Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






Thanks to their brother.
 
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geoffalnutt > Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






They aren't girls.
 
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j.martindale > geoffalnutt  • 5 months ago 






They are his right hand.
 
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Christopher Smith > Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






They're born AGAIN virgins.
 
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Cuberly > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Well, I think when Pappy dies Franklin'll be thinking, sailboat, Bentley, mansion. Oh and "squish, squish" of course, so so sad he'll be.

  
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Rebecca Gardner > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






When I get to heaven I don't want 72 virgins. I want 2 fire breathing whores!!!!
I love Billy Connolly
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i...
 
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Christopher Smith > Rebecca Gardner  • 5 months ago 






Only two? Why so modest?
 
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AtticusP > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Michelle Duggar's uterus just went "ULP!!!"
 
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Giant Monster Gamera > AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






That was another air pocket.
 
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AtticusP > Giant Monster Gamera  • 5 months ago 






Thank God! I thought it might be another fucking Duggar!
 
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BearEyes > AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






queef.
 
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TheManicMechanic > BearEyes  • 5 months ago 






A queef should not register on the Richter scale.
 
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BearEyes > TheManicMechanic  • 5 months ago 






Ideally.
 
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Michael Rush > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Where he's going he gets to be the dog instead of the vacuum cleaner .

  



 
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Steverino > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Naw, he's just a fucking asshole. Which comes closer to the correct biblical definition of being a sodomite.
 
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bambinoitaliano > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Wait till he finds out the money he swindled is not transferable to heaven or hell.
 
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thatotherjean > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






No. If he's right, he gets to shake hands with Barack Obama.
 
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Harley > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






"72 virgin girls to duggar greedily". There. Fixed it for you.
 
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Piercedchrlz > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






My comment seems to be gone.....hh hmm. Oops found it
 
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Piercedchrlz > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






While there may be that many Duggar cattle by then they won't leave home as virgins.
 
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bambinoitaliano > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Graham will go to his hell for ripping god's off. Praise jizzes!
 
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Ore Carmi > Guest  • 5 months ago 






I was going to say! If that statement doesn't freak out the president, what will?
 
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rusty57  • 5 months ago 






I seriously doubt Obama gives a single thought to you on any given day
Frank.
Focus on redeeming your own shriveled soul you fucking fraud.
 
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D. J. > rusty57  • 5 months ago 






Doesn't he have a sister, nephew and niece-in-law that need ministering to?
His Nephew that stepped down from Coral Ridge after sticking his pointy bits where they didn't belong is HOT. Very HOT!
His wife was doing the pool guy, too.
His sister is on her third divorce....
 
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abel > D. J.  • 5 months ago 






Gigi Graham's a MAJOR slut, and apparently a psychobitch on wheels.
 
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Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild > D. J.  • 5 months ago 






Ahem Old Frankie might understand this better:
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
~ Matthew 7:3-5
 
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Jean-Marc in Canada > rusty57  • 5 months ago 






Exactly.....and it is that very real loss of any relevance that really burns him.
 
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Sam_Handwich > j.martindale  • 5 months ago 






in the car, i usually pee in old gatorade bottles, but i might give plastic cups a try
 
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j.martindale > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






They splash on speed bumps. Stay with the gatorade bottles.
 
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NZArtist > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Everyone needs a hobby, I guess.
 
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Piercedchrlz > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






I piss exclusively in lalique.
 
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brian > Piercedchrlz  • 5 months ago 






Nice. Because it's frosted you can't see how full it is. Waterford fan here, for a reason.
 
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BeaverTales > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






I know how big the mouths of those old Gatorade bottles are, Sam. ;)
You can come over here and sit next to me....
 
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AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






I'll bet it sucks to be you, Franklin.
 
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Gerry Fisher > AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






Totes! (OMG, that just made me sound like a 13 y/o girl. I need another martini!)
 
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j.martindale > Gerry Fisher  • 5 months ago 






We are so clever. They will never overcome us.
 
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AtticusP > Gerry Fisher  • 5 months ago 






Cheers!
 
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rabbit_ears > AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






Looks like Jesus may have been doing drag the night before this pic.
 
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AtticusP > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






What happens in Nazareth stays in Nazareth…
 
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j.martindale > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






It's the mascara that gives it away.
 
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clay > AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






God doesn't send you to hell; you send your self to hell.
Yeah, right, that's up there with,"Stop hitting yourself with your own hand."
 
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Sean  • 5 months ago 






Nope.
P.S.
 
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Rebecca Gardner > Sean  • 5 months ago 






I am so stealing this. :)
 
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Rebecca Gardner  • 5 months ago 






Here's how I feel about your Hell...
A Pagan dies and, to his great surprise, he finds himself standing before
some pearly gates. St. Peter asks him, "May I help you?"
The Pagan asks, "Where am I?"
Peter says, "You're at the gates of heaven."
The Pagan says, "But I don't believe in heaven."
Peter frowns at him. "You're one of those Pagans, aren't you?"
"Yes. I believe I'm in the wrong place; I'm supposed to go to Summerland."
Peter says, "Sorry. We took over Summerland, and it's temporarily closed for
remodeling."
"What should I do now?"
Peter says, "Well, since we don't allow Pagans in heaven, you have to go to
hell. Sorry. Just follow that path that leads downward and to the left."
The Pagan walks down to hell, where the gates are standing open. He walks in
and finds beautiful meadows, happy animals, and clear streams of water.
He walks on in and begins exploring, and after a few minutes a courtly
gentleman walks up to him and bows politely. "Hello, I'm Satan. You must be
the guy that St. Peter phoned me about. Are you a Pagan?"
"Yes, I am. What's going to happen now?"
Satan says, "Well, the fishing's pretty good, if you enjoy that sort of
thing. There's a little refreshment stand down the road. And I believe the
Pagan meeting grounds are right over the next hill."
Suddenly, a hole opens up in the sky above, and a yawning chasm opens
directly underneath it. The stench of sulfur fills the air. Hundreds of
screaming, tortured souls drop down into the flaming pit, which immediately
closes up with a thud.
The Pagan, hardly believing what he just saw, asks Satan, "And what was THAT
???"
Satan rolls his eyes. "Oh, just ignore them. They're Christians; they
wouldn't have it any other way."
 
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perversatile > Rebecca Gardner  • 5 months ago 






When I was a little kid,
My neighbor told me
that birds- cats- squirrels- in general
and my dog Sam specifically
could not get into heaven
because they did not have souls.
I was beyond distraught.
My Mom wanted to know
who told me such a terrible lie.
Later on,
 after returning from informing
Mr. Andersons that Mrs. Anderson
was a whore and turned tricks
during the daytime
while he was at work,
Mom explained to me
that any living creature
with a good heart
and capable of giving love
and being loved would go to Paradise,
And that Paradise was
far better than heaven,
 because assholes like Mrs. Anderson
 got into heaven.
When I made her promise
this was true for dogs too,
Mom told me that
dogs liked Paradise just fine,
but they also liked to come back to earth
every once in a while
and be a dog again.
When I asked her If I could do the same,
 she replied,
Of course you can.
  



 
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Todd20036 > perversatile  • 5 months ago 






It's why Christians think they can take a shit on the world and God will magically clean it up.
If souls exist, I'd say any animal who's sentient enough to complete the thought: "I think, therefore, I am", would have one.
That would include dogs, whales, various monkeys/chimpanzees, you get the idea.
 
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JT  • 5 months ago 






Hell? How's that camel and eye of the needle thing going for ya, Franklin?

  
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Steverino > JT  • 5 months ago 






Graham is all about the Franklins.
 
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Octavio > Steverino  • 5 months ago 






That was good. Very good.
 
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Jean-Marc in Canada  • 5 months ago 






I do so love watching the Christian Righties twist, turn, squirm and whine.....it's absolutely delightful to witness. Thousands of years of their constant hatred, violence and condemnation and now, what power they had is slowly, but ever so surely, waning. As I said, delightful, delicious and ever so enjoyable.
 
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Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






the Nixon tapes had Daddy Graham talking with the president about how the j00z control all the media - "the synagogue of Satan" he called it
i wish these fucking creeps would just curl up and die. they are useless to America
 
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kanehau > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






"useless to America"...
"useless to the Universe"
FIFY
 
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Wynter Marie Starr  • 5 months ago 






Well, Franklin, your actions -- in my eyes -- are not in line with Hathor's purpose for your life. Don't believe in Hathor? I don't believe in your god. See how that works? Better start shedding your overly large and wholly underserved salary -- just like Jesus would want you to do. Perhaps you're the one who's going to hell.
 
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Homo Erectus > Wynter Marie Starr  • 5 months ago 






There is only one god, and her name is Karma.
 
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Wynter Marie Starr > Homo Erectus  • 5 months ago 






I don't believe in any gods. I like to use Hathor because she was basically the goddess of Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll.
One of my neighbors always talked about Carmen coming to get you. It took me two years to figure out she meant Karma. (Very heavy Italian accent)
 
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Christopher Smith > Wynter Marie Starr  • 5 months ago 






*imagining Carmen singing the Habanera while coming to get you.....*
 
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Wynter Marie Starr > Christopher Smith  • 5 months ago 






When I finally realized what she was talking about I laughed so hard I nearly peed myself. I did imagine Carmen Miranda though, full fruited turban and all.
 
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freehit > Wynter Marie Starr  • 5 months ago 






Perhaps???? Mr. Judgey is about to be slapped upside the head by that black book he's waving around in the picture above.
 
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Wynter Marie Starr > freehit  • 5 months ago 






Well, I don't believe in hell, so I temporized a bit. A slap upside the head with that book wouldn't make this guy any smarter. Maybe On the Origin of Species?
 
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thatotherjean > Wynter Marie Starr  • 5 months ago 






Hathor? Goddess of love and joy and beauty? Mistress of Life? Lady of the Stars? THAT Hathor? I don't believe that Franklin Graham has ever come within light years of Hathor, and neither has his god. They're both much too crabbed and angry and nasty.
 
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Wynter Marie Starr > thatotherjean  • 5 months ago 






Don't you love Hathor? I use her as an example along with Santa or Minerva. They are some of my favorite mythological characters. But, you are totally correct; Graham would be lucky to encounter such a fun goddess.
 
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BearEyes  • 5 months ago 






I read "moral decline" and think gun violence, corrupt politicians who only care about the $ for their next election, treating people in need as if they were lepers, excessive "religion", corporate welfare, outrageous CEO salaries, and a long list of other social ills.
I don't think of people loving each other and being treated equally as any sort of "moral decline"
 
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David L. Caster > BearEyes  • 5 months ago 






People like Franklin Graham think the Antichrist is some particular individual. What he doesn't realize is that the Antichrist is actually a collection of people and institutions in which he and his kind are central players.
 
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Jude Newton  • 5 months ago 






So.... what about intersex babies. Didn't your God make them too?
 
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Steverino > Jude Newton  • 5 months ago 






Exactly. Funny how they never opine about these human beings who, like us, God made that way.
 
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Cuberly  • 5 months ago 






Well, Pop was a piece of work when it came to Mormons and Jews. Makes me wonder what traitorous Frankie says off camera about, well, anything.

  
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rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Yeah thats it. Obama is going to hell for being nice to people. You on the other hand will go to heaven for being one of the sorriest excuses for a human I've seen. I do believe you have heaven and hell mixed up.
 
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Librarykid > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Judge not, Franklin, you SOB. I used to think there was a trap door at the gates of heaven to dispatch the evil ones to hell, but now I think that with the preponderance of pieces of shit like Franklin, there is probably a huge crapper where they are flushed around and around and down. The water tends to keep them from leaving streaks.
It speaks very poorly for his so called Christianity that those who have earnestly accepted Christ as their savior and try to do good could be sent to hell over something so minor that Jesus did not even mention it. Franklin ought to examine the hate that fills his mind as he considers his final destination. He is not getting any younger and with any luck, he won't get much older, God forbid.
 
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rabbit_ears > Librarykid  • 5 months ago 






I'm kind of hoping if there is a god he performs this sort of miracle on FG
 
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Snarkaholic > Librarykid  • 5 months ago 






Romans 10:13 "All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
So, Frankie, since approximately 40% of the LGBT community are Christians (have called on the name of the Lord), then either:
A: You claim that you know more than God does (blasphemy)
or
B: You're a liar
Which is it?
 
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Cuberly > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Oh, Franklin is just bitter. His Pappy had engraved invitations to State Dinners, meetings with the President, if not the President, the VP or other high level minion. So he's feeling diminished, the Obamas just don't invite him, hell, nobody outside of already indoctrinated do-nothing politicos give him the time of day.
This is sorta Franklins way of saying: "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?????"
 
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rabbit_ears > Cuberly  • 5 months ago 






So you can interpret the lack of response from POTUS as "Yes I know who you are, and you're nothing!"
 
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Cuberly > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 







  
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Henri205 > Cuberly  • 5 months ago 






Instead of 'Do you know who my father is?' Asshat.
 
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Cuberly > Henri205  • 5 months ago 






You calling me an "asshat"?
 
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oikos  • 5 months ago 






Cheers bitch

  
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TampaDink  • 5 months ago 






Lemme get this "straight".
You & yours can do whatever the fuck you want & get a pass.
Obama "celebrated" other human beings & is damned to hell for all eternity.
That "get out of hell" card that you xtians all seem to have is really something.
 
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rabbit_ears > TampaDink  • 5 months ago 






That get out of jail free card was already used selling their souls to the devil ;-)
That would make a great Twilight Zone episode actually.. Get a "get out of Hell free" card from Satan only to find out it was used up purchasing the card itself.
 
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JT  • 5 months ago 







  
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Giant Monster Gamera  • 5 months ago 






...
 
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Ore Carmi  • 5 months ago 






I'm so freaking tired of all these homophobes' obsession with gay people. Don't they have other issues to worry about?
 
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Chris H. > Ore Carmi  • 5 months ago 






Nope. Didn't you hear there's no more poverty, no one is homeless, and all diseases have been eradicated. What's a "good" Christian to do now?
 
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Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






Given the type of hateful, bigoted, ignorant God you worship, Frank, you're damned right I want to spend eternity as far from Him as possible.
 
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Christopher > Todd20036  • 5 months ago 






Yep!
 
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GayOldLady  • 5 months ago 






Franklin: First, you should know that many of us don't believe in the whole heaven/hell story, so the fear tactics don't work well on us. And second, since you and most other Christians have done everything within your power to make our lives hell on earth, we've already lived it. Not get off our backs, once and for all, and allow us to live our lives in PEACE!!!
 
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Christopher Smith > GayOldLady  • 5 months ago 






You go, Old Lady. :)
 
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TampaDink  • 5 months ago 






I hope that our next POTUS is taking notes & will not give this asshole or anyone else who spews such bullshit the privilege of speaking/praying at her inauguration.
 
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Silver Badger > TampaDink  • 5 months ago 






Or serving in her administration.
 
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Octavio > Silver Badger  • 5 months ago 






Or allowing him to walk and chew gum in public.
 
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TampaDink > Silver Badger  • 5 months ago 






That would be even worse.
 
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GC > Silver Badger  • 5 months ago 






And hopefully she or he will have a completely secular inauguration -- one thing Alexis Tsipras got right; no pandering to even deeply held religious beliefs that divide rather than unite us.
 
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Matthew Delemos  • 5 months ago 






I won't get to spend eternity worshipping a mysognistic rape loving genocidal racist bigot madgod cause I'm gay? Huh. ..and they make it sound like a bad thing!
 
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GanymedeRenard > Matthew Delemos  • 5 months ago 






You forgot homophobic and narcissistic.
 
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2guysnamedjoe > Matthew Delemos  • 5 months ago 






And anyway, I understand they serve better vodka in hell.
 
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Michael  • 5 months ago 






As a Christian, the good news is that this false prophet is not God, does not speak for God, does not represent God and does not decide whom Jesus saves. Thus, his opinion about millions of pro-equality Christians really doesn't matter. However, it's very telling that the same people demanding respect and tolerance for their "consciences" and "sincerely held religious beliefs" are so quick to violate and trample the consciences and beliefs of others..
 
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Michael Rush  • 5 months ago 






I'm getting to the point when anyone who says hell satan Bible God is going to be dismissed as an idiot , if the Bible was intended to raise a person's spiritual awareness it seems to have failed miserably . If it's intended to make people who aren't very bright fear doing something wrong because God will punish them maybe it has some purpose , but those people are really holding society back .
 
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Secure  • 5 months ago 






Just shut up Franklin, your father did enough damage to America. I know plenty of totally fucked-up straight married couples.
 
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abel > Secure  • 5 months ago 






There are several in Franklin's family, in fact.
 
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2patricius2  • 5 months ago 






What a sick man he is. Urging people to worship a god who is a monster. A god who would torture people forever for love and for justice. As I have said before - Graham's god is worse than all the Hitlers and Stalins and other mass killer despots in the world. They tortured and killed their victims. This god keeps them in torture with no end. Seems to me the only reason to worship a god like that is fear. People in dysfunctional families with mothers or fathers who beat and abuse them have it hard. I can't imagine being a close associate of Hitler or Stalin or other monstrous leaders like that. But Franklin says people should worship a god who is infinitely worse. What a sick message. And how sick it is to preach such a god just for the purpose of making a lot of money. A con man at his worst.
 
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Silver_Witch > 2patricius2  • 5 months ago 






Thank you!
 
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shellback  • 5 months ago 






“eternity separated from God”
I look forward to it, but especially his followers.
 
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Homo Erectus > shellback  • 5 months ago 






Please don't sentence me to an eternity with that Franklin asswipe.
 
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shellback > Homo Erectus  • 5 months ago 






I admit, I was unclear. It should read:
but especially, separated from his followers.
 
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Ritorna Vincitor  • 5 months ago 






Thanks, Frankie. You're a homophobic bigoted sanctimonious hypocritical asshole. (But I'm not bashing you.)
 
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freehit > Ritorna Vincitor  • 5 months ago 






You're just sharing your sincerely held beliefs, just like he does. (But unlike him, people aren't sending you shit loads of money for saying it.)
 
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2guysnamedjoe > Ritorna Vincitor  • 5 months ago 






No, I don't think you're being judgmental at all. Well, maybe, but a lot less judgmental than Franklin's ever been.
 
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LovesIrony  • 5 months ago 






I dont want to call Franklin Graham a bigoted homophobic piece of shit, oh wait yes I do...Franklin Graham is a bigoted homophobic piece of shit. That felt good
 
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TexasBoy  • 5 months ago 






So sayeth the Holy Grifter fleecing the sheeple, and parting people with their hard earned money.
 
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Ben in Oakland  • 5 months ago 






Oh, I don't know, Frankie. Jesus had something to say about whited sepulchers and and someone claiming to know Who is going to heaven and who is not going to heaven.
 
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rabbit_ears > Ben in Oakland  • 5 months ago 






And a few things on bearing false witness, theft, etc.
 
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Silver Badger  • 5 months ago 






What if, just maybe, being gay WAS God's purpose for me?
 
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Octavio > Silver Badger  • 5 months ago 






Nope. White grifter can't have that. He's got to make you fear his god and that he and his god have got your number. Pay up. Or you'll lose your immortal soul! Buwah ha ha ha . . . .
 
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Silver Badger > Octavio  • 5 months ago 






Truthfully, I am more afraid of him and his cohorts than I am his god.
 
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paisleyface  • 5 months ago 






I don't know why we show religious arguments any respect whatsoever. No religious point is worthy of debate and each needs to be mocked and ridiculed for what it is - SNAKE OIL! It is worth no gay person's angst or anger to entertain these completely ridiculous notions of good and evil and the idea that you are born evil. The man and his ilk need the Anita Bryant Solution and that is the only thing that will remedy this psychosis of clowns we are battling. Arm yourselves with cream pies, babies.
 
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Homo Erectus > paisleyface  • 5 months ago 






I love cream pies - oh, nevermind.
 
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TampaDink > Homo Erectus  • 5 months ago 






Call me. ?
 
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GanymedeRenard > TampaDink  • 5 months ago 






(Me three)
 
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Natty Enquirer  • 5 months ago 






We will all spend an eternity separated from God.
Because there are no gods.
 
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bkmn  • 5 months ago 






Fraudlin Graham has been very busy lately.
 
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DaddyRay  • 5 months ago 






Franklin Graham at the Pearly Gates
 
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Claude Jacques Bonhomme  • 5 months ago 






In the unlikely event that Franklin's sky daddy existed, I think Obama and all of us here could deal with him on our own terms. Franklin would have to do the same... the conclusion would likely differ from Franklin's fantasies.
 
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Homo Erectus > Claude Jacques Bonhomme  • 5 months ago 






President Obama - dealing with Franklin:
 
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Ron Robertson  • 5 months ago 






Franklinita, "moral" does not mean what you think it does. Morality is completely separate from your book of mythologies and idiocy. Morality comes into play on choice, not on how you were born. So fuck off, pig.
 
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GC > Ron Robertson  • 5 months ago 






(Worth sharing again...)
 
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JCF  • 5 months ago 






Hey, Lil Knockoff Graham:

  
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DutchBoy74 > JCF  • 5 months ago 






one of the greatest moment of television.
I hope he isn't too much of a recluse.
 
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thesunnysideofthestreet  • 5 months ago 






A delusional egomaniac says god called, they chatted about stuff and everyone Graham doesn't like is going to hell. Religiosity and mental illness have become synonymous in the US.
 
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Bill T.  • 5 months ago 






Holy Fuck! This fucking crackhead never shuts up!
 
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bzrd > Bill T.  • 5 months ago 






I believe it's graham cracker
 
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gaymex  • 5 months ago 






Do any of us give a flying fuck what this grifter thinks? Hell would be a step up from his vision of a christian America.
 
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kanehau  • 5 months ago 






,,,an “eternity separated from God”...
Good, your god sucks.
 
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Sarah  • 5 months ago 






Meh, I have it on good authority that your god is an absentee landlord anyway:

  



 
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Tor  • 5 months ago 






"I'm not bashing gays and lesbians, I'm only whacking them with this club, all out of love, you know.
 
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Justin  • 5 months ago 






If I believed in Hell, I'd believe Graham would end up there long before Obama would. He is such. a. scumbag.
 
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Green Arrow  • 5 months ago 






I've been separated from god since 1994. It feels great! I think Purgatory could do with some gay gentrification anyway. The place is a mess!
 
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MattM  • 5 months ago 






Do Muslims believe in Hell? Is he acknowledging that Obama is a Christian?
 
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Roger Mann > MattM  • 5 months ago 






Muslims do believe in Hell -- called Jahannum in Arabic -- which is spoken of several times in the Koran. it's not an equal-opportunity place, however -- Muslims don't get punished quite so severely as Infidels do, and hypocrites worst of all. Of course extra-Koranic writings elaborate on the gruesome details.
All of which puts Mr Graham in a quandary. If Mr Obama is indeed a Muslim, he won't find Hell quite as horrible as Mr Graham evidently hopes he will...
 
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Lakeviewbob  • 5 months ago 






I am willing to spend an “eternity separated from God” if this means I am separated by this asswipe as well.
 
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Silver_Witch  • 5 months ago 






I am so glad I celebrate homosexual love. I am so relieved that I have lived with a woman, loved a woman and am inside a man. I celebrate my current husband who loves me as I am and for who I am....and I am extremely relieved that I will not be going to heaven to worship or hang out with anyone as evil as the god that Graham worships.
 
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Glen  • 5 months ago 






Knock Knock.
Who is it?
Jesus! Let me in so I can save you!
Save me from what?
From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!
 
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Little Kiwi  • 5 months ago 






what about Rick Warren? he drove his own son to suicide.
 
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oikos > Little Kiwi  • 5 months ago 






His 'sin' of extreme gluttony remains unpunished.
 
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Richard Rush  • 5 months ago 






Long after Christianity takes its rightful place alongside Greek Mythology and all the other defunct religions, homosexuality will still exist, just as it existed long before anyone ever heard of Jesus Christ.
 
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Joann Prinzivalli  • 5 months ago 






The inhospitable, stranger-hating Franklin Graham is much more likely to be cast into the fiery pit, as one who is "numbered among the goats," than anyone he seeks to place there. That is, assuming the validity of the Gospel of Matthew as it refers to Gehenna.
 
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Paul in Leesburg > Joann Prinzivalli  • 5 months ago 






Hell did not exist as it is thought of today in the Old Testament, Yeshua's teaching, or the earliest days of the church. It was a pagan instrument to keep the rabble in line. But by the second century, the church leaders had adopted it and were beginning to use it to marshal believers. The descriptions of a hell with punishment and torment gradually become more embellished with detail. Until the end of the second century, the penalty was simply eternal fire. The atrocities against those who wouldn't swear allegiance to Yeshua increased in intensity by the third century.
from http://30ce.com/developmentofh...
I continually find it amazing that these so-called religious scholars know so little about their own cult history. Everything was stolen adopted from earlier myths. In the early days of the christ myth punishment for not believing was death. Period. Reward was being BFFs with folks like Franklin for fucking eternity singing and singing and singing...
 
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Joann Prinzivalli > Paul in Leesburg  • 5 months ago 






Either those second century Christian Fathers were referring back to Matthew 25, or there was some alteration done.
One can use the Bible to trace the "evolution" of some concepts relating to both God and the Adversary- there re even traces of pre-monotheism lurking in some passages.
One does not have to believe to appreciate the Inferno, though.
 
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Homo Erectus  • 5 months ago 






Franklin, honey - you're a big time sinner according to James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin".
 
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rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Actually how did Obama celebrate it? Was there a huge party with a big gay orgy at the White House we all somehow missed? Why weren't we told???
 
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Michael Smith  • 5 months ago 






I'll admit I'm a little rusty on the Bible. I haven't been to church since I was a boy. But I'm pretty sure your bible says do not judge or you will be judged.
 
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anne marie in philly  • 5 months ago 






STFU, dickwad!
 
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Gerry Fisher  • 5 months ago 






I *just* don't know what I'll do without eternal contact with the spaghetti monster in the sky. "(Meat) Balls!"
 
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William  • 5 months ago 






Completely off topic - Has anyone heard from Zhy Kitty? I'm worried about her, with all this rain in the southeast. I hope she is high and dry, annoyed that the internet service is out.
 
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Robert Adams  • 5 months ago 






So I hear this guy showed up a couple thousand years ago to save the world. According to most preachers, the world has been in a state of moral decline ever since. Seems that was a wasted effort.
 
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Sporkfighter  • 5 months ago 






Does "separated from God" also mean "separated from Franklin Graham"?
 
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Mark Alexander  • 5 months ago 






"Franklin Graham says that one day President Obama and all gay people will probably spend an 'eternity separated from God' due to all this homo-celebrating."
You mean that murderous, narcissistic psychopath celebrated in your "holy" book? Being separated from that sounds more than fine to me.
 
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Ninja0980  • 5 months ago 






How could hell be any worse then a heaven filled with hateful vile people like Franklin Graham?
 
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Six Pins Delores  • 5 months ago 






OH you are not bashing me!
Take your imaginary gawd and shove IT Franklin.
Equality rules the land we unfortunately share, you grifting pos.
 
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ChiTownGuy  • 5 months ago 






That's it. I'm gonna get me a microphone in one hand and a bible in the other. Say crazy shit till the cows come home. Cuz it sells. Then give all my millions to the Obama Presidential Library.
 
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Mark  • 5 months ago 






As opposed to you going to heaven for wallering in it?? In . Out. Up. Down. - you know you love it Franky.
 
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Richard B  • 5 months ago 






always a sourpuss...
 
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GanymedeRenard  • 5 months ago 






*Yawn* - Next.
 
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PLAINTOM  • 5 months ago 






Graham is a Cracker.
 
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rabbit_ears > PLAINTOM  • 5 months ago 






And a crumby one at that.
 
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Sam_Handwich > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 







  
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rabbit_ears > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






Hey I know that guy!
 
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joe ho  • 5 months ago 






well, according to the koran, franklin will be thrown into hell where his flesh will be burned off, and then he will grow a new skin which in turn will be burned off, and so forth for eternity.
christianity has no monopoly on vile afterlife threats.
i bet that has franklin trembling, just like his threats have everyone else trembling.
religion: together we can find the cure.
 
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Paul  • 5 months ago 






Non-discrimination ordinance passes in Carmel, Indiana, an affluent and conservative/Republican Indianapolis suburb:
http://www.indystar.com/story/...
 
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HomerTh  • 5 months ago 






Does anyone actually believe this grifter/con man actually believes the fecal matter that pours out when he opens his mouth? I don't think he does.
 
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Rod Steely  • 5 months ago 






Dear Franklin Graham- FUCK off and mind your own fucking business.
 
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DumbHairyApe  • 5 months ago 






What gives these fools the idea they can speak for their God. That's pretty much the definition of self-righteous pride, thinking they have the authority to decide who gets to heaven or hell. I had thought that was one of Jesus's duties? I'm sure he'll be happy to hear that the ilk of his kind have alleviated that responsibility from his shoulders and they now decide who goes up or down.
 
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skeptical_inquirer  • 5 months ago 






I will never stop noticing how people like him NEVER talk about the tale of the good Samaritan where it's the outsider who goes out of his way to help someone and reaches into his own pocket in terms of healing and housing a stranger.
 
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LADY MABELINE  • 5 months ago 






Crackpot says what? Oh never mind , I don't care after all
 
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Bill  • 5 months ago 






If only this poor old coot hadn't been indoctrinated since brith into the fraudulent foolishness of religion, he'd understand that, like the rest of us heathens, he'll spend eternity six feet under taking an eternal dirt nap.
Poor thing. The man is to be pitied, not feared. But by all means, DO guard your wallets and purses.
 
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Jan Wesselius  • 5 months ago 






Wow, see that, he's got a floppy bible! They can't resist waving them round and hope the tinker bell dust will turn everyone to them and give them money.
Second why is it these evangelicals think the their religion has a lock on heaven? If your not a Christian and don't believe in Jesus your gonna go to hell with the burning lake of acid. With Gods love understand you because when he murders you he loves you. (is that psychotic or what?)
 
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Silver Badger > Jan Wesselius  • 5 months ago 






Would that be like the burning lake of acid which forms in my stomach whenever I make the mistake of listening to these people? I find a Tums works wonders. Avoiding evangelicals works even better.
 
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Ryan Hunter  • 5 months ago 






What a total moron and further poisoned by his imbecile of a father.
 
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Bob M  • 5 months ago 






"...actions — in his eyes* — are..." *Franklin's eyes, that is...
Franklin, when the time comes for President Obama to stand before God, the only opinion that matters is what God has to say, you don't get to have any say in that. You also have no right to judge anyone on based on what your opinion is or by "your" standard of believing.
 
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William > Bob M  • 5 months ago 






Franklin has his father's eyes.

  



 
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perversatile > William  • 5 months ago 






Addams Family Values-
 "He has my Father's eyes"
"Gomez, take those out of his mouth"
 
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Octavio  • 5 months ago 






Big problem with the christain belief system is right there in Franklin's message. Living an eternity separated from god? Not bloody likely. What part of his ass does this mentally impaired human pull such bullshit? The hubris and arrogance are stultifying. The ass wipe needs to look up the word shame in the dictionary.
 
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delk  • 5 months ago 






Probably? Hedging your bets?
 
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Whitey's Conspiracy  • 5 months ago 






That's what I love about Baptist preachers: so focused on the golden rule and Gods love.
 
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Gianni  • 5 months ago 






Fortunately, Franklin, our legal system doesn't deal in sin. Whatever happens after death, if anything, so be it. Keep the money coming, friends.
 
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Platos_Redhaired_Stepchild  • 5 months ago 






Heaven for the Climate, Hell for the Company. Who'd want to go to heaven and spend an eternity with this asshole anyways?
 
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Michael Hampton  • 5 months ago 






Graham can save us all a good seat.
 
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Gordon Cash  • 5 months ago 






I am a lifelong atheist, so speaking hypothetically here, but I think someone needs to remind Franklin Graham that who do and do not qualify as God's children is God's decision, not Franklin Graham's
 
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justmeeeee  • 5 months ago 






See you in hell, Obama!
 
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Jeffg166  • 5 months ago 






Franklin, you are going to hell for being a heretic so there!
 
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Robert  • 5 months ago 






My...my... How lucky we all are to have Frankie around to tell us the reality of what God thinks.....
 
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Henry Horton  • 5 months ago 






"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
 
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Cosmo Tupper  • 5 months ago 






For celebrating EQUALITY? You are going to h*ll because of the detestable abomination of judgment. Didn't your god tell you that? Oh, yeah, you people pick and choose the rules of the bible you want to rant about and skip the ones that apply to YOU!
 
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Chris Baker  • 5 months ago 






Franklin must not be a very good theologian. According to baptist doctrine, all that is required for salvation is repentance and acceptance of Jesus. Then salvation cannot be lost. It's not based on any works, and cannot be lost.
Franklin will then claim that because he supports gays, Obama must never have been a Christian to begin with.
 
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Galvestonian  • 5 months ago 






Gawd Help us - he's turning into Pat Robertson. It's like being a Christian Zombie. Live forever and come out with outrageous bullpuckey faux christian statements to suck up big bucks from the sheeples.
 
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PeterC  • 5 months ago 






"God made Males and Females" A female was his second choice. But he used part of a male to make her. After a while, he flooded the earth, and started over.
This time it was a do it yourself project.
Some people still want to follow the first recipe that He got rid of.
I say; let us follow the second one, and do it ourselves. And he had no objections to this.
So, why do some people try to follow a "rule" that their God washed away?
 
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millers3888  • 5 months ago 






I love how KKKristians seem to know exactly WHAT Jesus and God "said". Oh right, if it's in the bible it's the actual word of God. Except any part that indicts anyone except us gays.
 
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DaveW   • 5 months ago 






I too lament our moral decline, but it is thievery (material and otherwise, as in taking rights) and extreme selfishness led by the digital wasteland that has put everyone in these self centered bubbles, that has led to acceptance of horribly anti social behavior, acceptance of all kinds of cheating (but not of getting caught) that has brought about a breakdown in civil society.
We have a society that accepts cheating, wife beating, dog killing by its idols as long as the homoerotic sporting rush can go on and a basic lack of civility that is the root of our inability to solve problems.
Yes, cutting each other off in traffic, Sunday scream festa on TV and even rude men walking on the safer non traffic side with their family outside as acceptable behavior DO matter for what they encourage more broadly.
That is why "broken windows" policing works. Allow the small stuff by the "good" guys, witness what the "bad" guys do with impunity.
I am sick of what our country has become, led here by sin and get forgiven whacko cultists like this idiot.
 
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Michael Abbett  • 5 months ago 






I don't believe in a supreme being in the first place, but if they are the true representatives of one then I can only hope I spend eternity separated from it and them. How could a devil be any worse?
 
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Joseph Miceli  • 5 months ago 






Franklin Graham is probably going to Hell for being a judgmental evil grifter. Of course, since there is no Hell I guess we'll just have to hope he suffers for it in this life.
 
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Desmond Rutherford  • 5 months ago 






Give it a rest Franklin, sin is a fabrication devised to keep people in a state of fear of a supernatural being which was conceived by stone age man when science hadn't yet developed to where it could provide the answers now available. Be gone with your threats and dismal projections of eternal hell; life is wonderful without the promise of hell or heaven, with or without you.
 
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Ben in Oakland > Desmond Rutherford  • 5 months ago 






A small correction:
Not wonderful with or without Frankie.
Wonderful WITHOUT Frankie.
 
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Desmond Rutherford > Ben in Oakland  • 5 months ago 






Sorry, bad sentence construction. The with or without you, I meant to refer to Frankie's promise (threat) of heaven or hell, whether he gets to be in either of them. I'm sure both heaven and hell would be better off without him, but the real winners will be those on earth who live without his preaching.
 
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Ben in Oakland > Desmond Rutherford  • 5 months ago 






Absolutely.
It really wasn't a correction of you, it was a wish for Frankie.
 
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Desmond Rutherford > Ben in Oakland  • 5 months ago 






Indeed, Thanks Ben.
 
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e jerry powell  • 5 months ago 






With the alternative being heaven for all eternity but spent with people like Franklin Graham ...
 
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Eddi Haskell  • 5 months ago 






As my favorite line in the movie The Martian says, Franklin Graham can go have sex with himself.
 
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Dale Snyder  • 5 months ago 






Keep on digging the evangelical christian grave, asshole.
You have no idea how we find pieces of shit like you an ally to or cause for equality FOR ALL.
 
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ExGayTherapyKills  • 5 months ago 






Good news and bad news Frank, you and Obama are in hell, it is called earth.
 
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MikeBx2  • 5 months ago 






Graham believes that he is "saved" and anyone who doesn't believe as he does is "lost". Doesn't matter who they are married to or even if they have been celibate their entire life.
If it were true that we wake up in some eternal place after we die, I hope to do everything I can to be certain that I go wherever Franklin Graham is not.
 
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caphillprof  • 5 months ago 






And a thrice divorced woman with an out of wedlock child shall lead them.
 
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Dale Snyder > caphillprof  • 5 months ago 






Out of wedlock CHILDREN.
And don't forget the sinful gluttony.
 
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2guysnamedjoe  • 5 months ago 






Does Franklin keep a list, much as Sister Mary Ignatius did, of people who are going to hell?
 
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jonfromcalifornia  • 5 months ago 






So this man is now playing God and judging people (Matthew 7:1-2). He can cite the Pharisee (Acts 23:6) Paul of Tarsus all he wants to bolster his bigotry but I prefer Jesus' clear definition of who REALLY goes to hell and who goes to heaven (Matthew 25:31-46) which has NO references to gay sex or ANY sexual sins. The Pharisee Paul, despite his conversion to Christianity, maintained his pharisaical beliefs regarding sexual activity and especially regarding homosexuality.
 
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3-4-69

Vatican Priest Comes Out, Gets Sacked Immediately
?October 3, 2015 ?LGBT News, Religion



A Vatican priest working in the office of the Holy See was fired today immediately after he came out. Via Reuters:

Monsignor Krzystof Charamsa was removed from his position at the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican’s doctrinal arm where he had worked since 2003, a statement said. Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy’s Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday. He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant. They had planned a demonstration in front of the Vatican but changed the venue several hours before it was due to have started. The Vatican said Charamsa’s dismissal had nothing to do with his comments on his personal situation, which it said “merit respect”. But it said giving the interview and the planned demonstration was “grave and irresponsible” given their timing on the eve of a synod of bishops who will discuss family issues, including how to reach out to gays.
Charamsa says he expected to be dismissed, adding, “It’s time for the Church to open its eyes about gay Catholics and to understand that the solution it proposes to them — total abstinence from a life of love — is inhuman.”
UPDATE: Via JMG reader Andrea, here’s his interview (in English) with the Italian newspaper.
  



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Avatar
Marc  • 5 months ago 






Consensual relationship with another adult = instant termination
Non-consensual relationship with a child = how about you prey on another community?
 
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crewman > Marc  • 5 months ago 






What does this say about the values of the Catholic Church? Truth and honesty? Meh. Secrecy? Now that's something that matters! Keep a secret, keep a job.
 
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Herald > crewman  • 5 months ago 






Another case of the grave sin of embarassing the institution of the RCC. Catholic employee or clergy who is Gay with a "secret" partner fine, go public and you are toast!
 
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Steve Teeter > Herald  • 5 months ago 






My partner told me that one of the mid 20th century popes (I can't ask him which; he's asleep) was well known before his election for having a boyfriend. He was told that he had a choice. Keep the boyfriend and not be the Pope, or dump the boyfriend and be the Pope. He chose Pope.
 
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JamesInCA > Steve Teeter  • 5 months ago 






See how far we've come? Ratzinger got to keep his.
 
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Joann Prinzivalli > Herald  • 5 months ago 






"Creating a Scandal in the Church"
 
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Steven Leahy > crewman  • 5 months ago 






At the end of the day, what really ALL abrahamic religionist cults are about is power and control.
 
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Galvestonian > crewman  • 5 months ago 






I think it's time for my where "GOD' came from lesson.
Ya see, monotheism is extremely rare in history (look it up) only two real instances in recorded history - both curiously enough in Egypt and separated by one or two hundred years.
The first (AMUN - God was the Sun) was under Akhenaten (18th Dynasty 1319 - 1336 B.C. ). After his death monotheism was severely put down and the worship of many gods continued.
The Date that Moses left Egypt with his people (?) has been established at 1441 B.C. or so.
Moses is not a Jewish name. Itis Egyptian name (Tut-moses, Ra-moses & etc.) - it means 'son of'. Moses was a priest. What was he a priest of ? That 'old monotheistic religion' so severely put down a century or so prior to him leading his people (?) out of Egypt to find religious freedom.
What proof do you have ? When Moses went up Mount Sanai, his people (?) asked Aaron to make them the gods that went before us and he crafted a ' Golden Calf '. They were asking for the restoration of Egyptian Religion, that is, the many gods that came after 'monotheism of 150 or 200 years before.
In Egyptian mythology, Apis or Hapis (alternatively spelled
Hapi-ankh), is a bull diety that was worshipped in the Memphis
region. "Apis served as an intermediary between humans and an
all-powerful god Amun - the sun god."
So basically we're worshiping a Sun God with a lot of added embroidery.
When we think of heaven where do we look or point - up of course.
The end of a prayer is generally spoken as AMEN. Where do you think it came from. It's not a coincidence. We're still stating the name of the one original God and it wasn't Jewish, Christian or Muslim.
Christianity as a religion that we know today is largely an embroidered composite of other pagan religions as much of it was
'borrowed' and 'pieced' together from pagan myths, stories and
tradition.
I strongly advise anyone to check out the internet site
Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth (POCM). This site provides strong scholarship and provides accurate backup for these facts. Check it out ! Don't take my word for it.
This is all available in books or texts as stated on POCM.
It's HISTORY people !!!
Everything else, the rituals, the bullshit, the myths were added on over the centuries.
We've all been conned. This was and still is the biggest con of all time.

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crewman > Galvestonian  • 5 months ago 






This narrative is interesting, but it relies on the Bible as if it is proof of actual events. From what I've read, there is no substantial evidence that Moses existed or an exodus occurred.
 
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Steve Teeter > crewman  • 5 months ago 






This is true. The Egyptians were excellent records keepers. There's no evidence or record of a mass exodus of thousands of workers, an event that would have severely disrupted the Egyptian economy and would have been noted. That given, it's safe to assume it never happened.
 
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Galvestonian > crewman  • 5 months ago 






...there's tradition myths that were passed down verbally and if Moses was a myth then so were the dates but it's all crap that was incorpotrated into the 'sacred' book. I'm not trying to pass the bible off as a history book - it's a book put together by a bunch of superstitious nomads and polished by a bunch of con men.
 
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Joann Prinzivalli > Galvestonian  • 5 months ago 






you do realize that 1319-1336 BCE is *after* 1441 BCE. BC numbers are a countdown, not a countup.
 
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Galvestonian > Joann Prinzivalli  • 5 months ago 






There is still a tie in to Egypt with monotheism.
 
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2karmanot > Galvestonian  • 5 months ago 






Well done! There is absolutely no archaeological evidence, none what so ever, of the existence of Moses and the Crossing of the sea as mythologized by Jews or Christians.
 
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Craig Howell > 2karmanot  • 5 months ago 






Nor that the Jews were ever in Egypt in the first place.
 
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Galvestonian > Craig Howell  • 5 months ago 






They weren't Jews then - they were Egyptians.
 
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Dave in Boston > Galvestonian  • 5 months ago 






Brevity is the soul of wit hon. You have go the outline correct, but the details screwy. For example "amen" is from classical Hebrew, but not the name of Amun. That's a popular myth from Theosophy. Hypothetically I'm on your side, but ...
 
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StraightGrandmother > crewman  • 5 months ago 






So true Crewman, so true.
 
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BeaverTales > Marc  • 5 months ago 






The celibacy requirement is ridiculous, but it's at least it's applied equally to heterosexuals. If you sign up for a sex hating religion like Catholicism, it's part of the package. Deal with it.
If this priest had been fucking women or had married one and abstained from sex, I wonder if he'd get the same treatment? Either way, he probably knew this would happen, and has lost his faith, which is a good thing. Hopefully he lost enough faith to stop preaching a religion that says people like him are "intrinsically disordered" whether they are sexually active or not.
Finally, one last point: gays are the House Ni99ers of the Catholic faith, despised and demonized , but used like bitches since the time of da Vinci and Michaelangelo. In the black community, trading your dignity so you'll have a high paying job (if you accept that you have to suck up to people who hate you for who you are) is a bitter pill....but you'll never have the respect of your fellow blacks either. I feel sorry for him, but not for the same reasons every one else here seems to.
 
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Marc > BeaverTales  • 5 months ago 






The RCC shows that this celibacy requirement is applied equally to normal, well-adjusted priests who desire a consensual relationship with another adult. The RCC also shows that it's not equally applied to pedophiles.
 
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BeaverTales > Marc  • 5 months ago 






No pederastic or pedophilic relationship is legal or consensual in the western world.
 
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Marc > BeaverTales  • 5 months ago 






...I really don't know why you're having this "argument" with me.
I agree with you: Priests are supposed to remain celibate; he knew this coming in and he chose not to abide by it. It's a stupid, self-destructive requirement, but that's the rules of the profession he chose. And then accordingly, the RCC kicked him out because he's in a (presumably sexual) relationship with another adult.
However, the RCC does NOT kick priests out when celibacy vows are broken by raping a child; the priests simply get shuffled around to another location. They're neither kicked out nor handed over to the authorities.
Your previous assertion that they're kicking out heterosexuals and homosexuals equally was completely unrelated to the point I made, as is the legality of adult-child relationships. So what exactly are you trying to drive at here? Are you just bored?
 
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BeaverTales > Marc  • 5 months ago 






Miss Thing, please....
This isn't an argument, you weren't attacked. I pointed out a small additional fact that I felt was relevant. I didn't contradict or even disagree with anything you said. I didn't insult you or downvote you. I should have posted without replying to your post. Don't worry, I wont make that mistake again.
Don't worry, honey. If I disagree with you, I'll make it very clear what I think of you or your post, and not soft pedal. Most people here who read my posts will agree that's not my style.
You're right, I must be really fucking bored to be responding to this kind of weird petty defensiveness from some queen who doesn't even know how to have a civil discussion. If you need to argue over petty bullshit, I'm out. I'll stick to watching Kim Davis videos if I want to waste the rest of my weekend listening to someone whining about fake persecution.
Have a great Sunday.
 
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Marc > BeaverTales  • 5 months ago 






You certainly read a lot into this conversation, so let's just leave it at: Have a great Sunday as well.
 
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GanymedeRenard > Marc  • 5 months ago 






Thank you!
 
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Willie Bill > Marc  • 5 months ago 






Right on, Marc.
 
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SockMikey > Marc  • 5 months ago 






...and moving priest to another parish/country by Catholic hierarchy after molestation.
 
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AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






Some things never change…
 
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billbear1961 > AtticusP  • 5 months ago 






This cartoon says it all, or at least a very great deal about the Church's truly evil and sick-making hypocrisy, doesn't it?
 
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Sam_Handwich > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






o/t
Mister Bear! saw this on twitter this morning and saved it for you!

  


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billbear1961 > Sam_Handwich  • 5 months ago 






One does try to be polite, Mr. Handwich!
:-)
Now I've got to write a note to People4Humanity.
I couldn't find his email--CJ had to hunt for it in the archives.
I tried but failed to find it, but CJ found it!
So, I can write!
 
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Reality.Bites > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Much more refined than your usual wave.

  
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billbear1961 > Reality.Bites  • 5 months ago 






Ice is the only thing I really hate about winter!
 
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Reality.Bites > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Try it on a bike!
 
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billbear1961 > Reality.Bites  • 5 months ago 






Do you ride a bike in winter, RB?!
 
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Sam_Handwich > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






hope all is well with p4h!
 
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Todd20036 > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






But, Pope Frank loves gay people. He says we shouldn't be killed and we are God's children.
Stupid quislings.
 
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Mike in Texas  • 5 months ago 






.... in much less time than they took to respond to the claims of Liberty Counsel and that woman.
 
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billbear1961 > Mike in Texas  • 5 months ago 






"Liberty" Counsel and that "woman"!
 
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Jeffrey > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Come to think of it, "Liberty Counsel" should just always be in quotes from now on.
 
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billbear1961 > Jeffrey  • 5 months ago 






"Liberty" "Counsel"--we want people to pause to consider the terms separately, and then together, to consider the total IRONY involved in the use of BOTH words.
 
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Jeffrey > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






and also "Counsel" because they definitely aren't providing counsel.
 
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billbear1961 > Jeffrey  • 5 months ago 






Exactly--they don't give considered advice--they give marching orders to further their agenda.
 
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Marc > Mike in Texas  • 5 months ago 






That's the truly telling bit
 
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Michael Rush  • 5 months ago 






Say hello to Eduard
( edit : probably Eduardo , the news is reporting it both ways )
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/...

  
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Jeffrey > Michael Rush  • 5 months ago 






That pic is pretty hot. Sorry.
 
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Gigi > Jeffrey  • 5 months ago 






Don't ever be sorry for stating the truth.
 
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Gay Fordham Prep Grad > Jeffrey  • 5 months ago 






and that is not even the best pic of him. The BBC had an interview with them this morning, the priest hit the jackpot with Eddie.
 
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Ontogenesis > Gay Fordham Prep Grad  • 5 months ago 






He'll be happier without the church and with that lovely fellow instead. Judging from the smile, the priest knows it.
 
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Kenneth Sean Campbell > Gay Fordham Prep Grad  • 5 months ago 






The priest is pretty adorable himself!
 
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GanymedeRenard > Michael Rush  • 5 months ago 






I think his is name is Eduardo. But that's irrelevant to the fact that he's a hottie! XD
 
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Paul in Leesburg > GanymedeRenard  • 5 months ago 






I recently dated a Cuban, Eduard with no "O"
 
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GanymedeRenard > Paul in Leesburg  • 5 months ago 






Hmm... Interesting. Was he born in the US? Legit curiosity out of sociolinguistic reasons.
Per this priest's (hot) significant other, I just confirmed his name is indeed Eduard (no "o"): http://video.corriere.it/monsi... So Michael Rush was right! My bad. :)
Even though Eduard is Spanish, it'd make sense to assume he's from Catalonia (Catalan and Castilian/Spanish are sister languages, but not the same of course; Catalan tends to drop vowels where they're required in Spanish).
 
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Paul in Leesburg > GanymedeRenard  • 5 months ago 






He was born in Cuba
 
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GanymedeRenard > Paul in Leesburg  • 5 months ago 






He must've been hawwwt! I love me some Cubans!
Regarding his name, I'm thinking of two possible - and by no means exclusive - explanations:
1) His parents may be Catalan, or of Catalan descent (Catalans tended to migrate either to Cuba or Argentina during and after the Spanish Civil War).
2) He may have come from an underprivileged environment - yes, even though in terms of economic status people are nominally "equal" in Cuba, there are still "classes" depending on the amount of money they receive from their US-resident families. Underprivileged people in the Spanish-speaking world (and even in Brazil) tend to name their children with typically English names, because this would somehow in their minds compensate for their economic status. I know this sounds absurd, but this is what sociolinguists have to say about it after years of widespread study. :-O
 
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StraightGrandmother > Michael Rush  • 5 months ago 






The whole celibacy for priests thing has got to go. It serves no purpose.
The only thing i can think of why they keep it is because it serves to keep priests isolated without a family and thus tied to the church.
 
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Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






Well at least I have to give this man credit to have the guts to be open about who he is, finally, in the epicenter of this mess of a church. As usual, the vatican took the easy way out and made up a bunch of excuses - easier to just boot him than to deal with life's realities.
 
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crewman > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






The Catholic Church's expectations of celibacy is intrinsically disordered and unnatural. Homosexuality is observed in nature and therefore by definition, natural. It is a bona fide intrinsic state for some of us humans.
 
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billbear1961 > crewman  • 5 months ago 






They simply don't CARE about everything we've learned through scientific studies of human nature and psychology, and from observations of other species.
For SOME adults, sexuality isn't very important, and chastity and celibacy are sometimes the path they freely choose.
But to attempt to impose it on anyone against his or her will is an act of MONSTROUS cruelty.
For most, it is, as you say, an unnatural and "disordered"--i.e., MAD--demand made upon them.
No individual or institution has the right to demand such a thing of human beings!
It is grotesquely abusive.
 
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Wynter Marie Starr > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Big difference between those who are innately asexual and those that are forced into celibacy in order to satisfy mythology. It's about the most cruel thing I could imagine; to demand that a person lives without love and companionship.
 
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vorpal > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Humans aren't animals: we're special little flowers created in the image of their monster god, which is why they are so often such disgusting, evil, hateful bastards.
 
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billbear1961 > vorpal  • 5 months ago 






Dainty flowers quick to commit unspeakable atrocities, often in the name of the god of "Love."
This is what the word "irony" was invented for, cher minou.
Best not to get too close to certain "roses," chéri!
 
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vorpal > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






All thorn, no flower :-).
(They are so stunted that they should never be compared to sex organs - even of plants!)
Haha :-). I am always eight kinds of delighted (not seven or nine!) to hear from you, mon beau ourson! I hope you and hubby and having a spiffy Saturday!
 
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Shy Guy > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Every time you write minou I read minet before having to correct it back. I blame Cadinot. :P
 
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billbear1961 > Shy Guy  • 5 months ago 






That name rang a bell, Shy, sweetie, but I had to look it up!
(I will write soon!)
 
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MB > vorpal  • 5 months ago 






...and all this time I thought I was a unique "special -snowflake." well, fuck.me !!!!!!!!!!
 
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StraightGrandmother > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






I know I could never have made it as a nun, celibate. I would have veered. Sexual desire is very powerful, as a young woman I could not have prayed that away. When I think of that first year of married life I blush.
 
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Stogiebear > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






Hell, when you think of that first year and blush just tell him to get back in the bedroom and go for a "stroll" down memory lane! No sense in that rushing blood going to the wrong bits...
 
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billbear1961 > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






I only just now saw the second part of your reply, SG! :-)
Everything past "is very powerful" is new!
 
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Steven Leahy > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Agree with you. They are only starting to change on climate change because of the obvious and undeniable changes happening to our planet which will affect us all.
On another note, a good reason for people to cut down on eating beef (I stopped about 7 years ago). I didn't realize that around 15% of the earth's greenhouse gases come from cows' methane production....it's not all about burning fossil fuels.
 
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Librarykid > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






You could have stopped your first sentence after the word "studies."
 
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charliebkk > crewman  • 5 months ago 






I had a wonderful college prof (40 years ago) who said the same thing: "They moralize endlessly, yet require of their leaders the most unnatural and perverted practice of all, which is celibacy".
 
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LovesIrony > charliebkk  • 5 months ago 






celibacy is inherently disordered. Some of us are meant to be gay, none of us are meant to be sexless.
 
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Shy Guy > LovesIrony  • 5 months ago 






Except maybe the asexuals?
 
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2karmanot > crewman  • 5 months ago 






The Church loves its intrinsically disordered: Pedophilia and Celibacy are first in favor.
 
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vorpal  • 5 months ago 






Oh, I can't wait to hear how the Catholic Church plans to reach out to gays:
"We love you unconditionally, under the condition that you live single, miserable, lonely lives of celibacy without love or romantic companionship. But trust us, because we are holier than you and we know what's best for you."
 
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Reality.Bites > vorpal  • 5 months ago 






The only reach out I want from the Church is "If you are not a member of our church we have absolutely nothing to say about you or how you live your life, nor will we support any laws that inflict our religion on you against your will."
As for how they treat people stupid enough to be in their church, I couldn't care less.
 
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Steven Leahy > Reality.Bites  • 5 months ago 






Agree with you except for the millions of children here and around the world forced to participate and indoctrinated with no say in the matter.
 
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JesterRedPanda > vorpal  • 5 months ago 






Maybe they should hand out chastity cages. I know more than a few guys who'd line up to get one as they get off on the idea of perma-chastity. Wouldnt stop em from being gay though, lol.
 
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teeveedub  • 5 months ago 






So much for that kinder, gentler Pope.
 
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Ed Burrow > teeveedub  • 5 months ago 






you're fired! and thank you.
(there's that kinder and gentler bit.)
 
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Steven Leahy > Ed Burrow  • 5 months ago 






LOL well at least you were NICE about it!
 
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billbear1961 > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






We're very sorry, and this has nothing to do with your personal situation, which deserves respect.
Thank you very much for your services.
You're FIRED--get OUT!!
 
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Prion > Ed Burrow  • 5 months ago 






love the cat
  



 
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FloBear  • 5 months ago 






I love how he forced the Vatican to sound even more ridiculous. Sure, his dismissal had nothing to do with him having hot gay sex with his hot Spanish lover.
 
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Paul in Leesburg > FloBear  • 5 months ago 






Of course it didn't silly rabbit! It was all about the proposed demonstration outside the meeting to discuss how to reach out to gay people.
 
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Ninja0980  • 5 months ago 






A bishop in my area talked about how child rape victims of the church and in general are partially to blame for their own rapes and he still has his job nearly a month later.
 Yet this man comes out and is gone in less then 24 hours.
 For those LGBT folks who think Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air... WAKE THE HELL UP.
 He is a bigot, just like the rest of the folks who run the Catholic Church and that won't change.
It's why I left while I was still in high school and haven't looked back.
 The church hates us, they truly do.
 
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Friday > Ninja0980  • 5 months ago 






True. Though the perception doesn't necessarily hurt, cause what's happened with other Popes is the Religious Right has been trying to tell Catholics and others where their priorities ought to be in recent decades... Not to mention lying about the positions of Catholic people as *voters.*
Funny how Protestants just seem to *love* invoking some 'Papal authority' I thought the Protestants were protestant about in the first place. :)
 
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rabbit_ears > Friday  • 5 months ago 






When the papal authority agrees with its position its very convenient. When it doesn't its a group of debauched false Christians.
 
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Friday > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






As we see yet again just lately. :)
 
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Willie Bill > Ninja0980  • 5 months ago 






I forgot to add how sickening, deranged and indifferent with depravity that perspective is; it makes you wonder just how many little ones this charlatan has abused himself! The way I look at it is, for anyone who thinks about what/where/how they worship, look back into the history of your organized religion, there is more than enough evidence there to indicate what THIS institution is all about. They may not be proactively sanctioning mass murder any longer, but organize a longitudinal study with young boys who are molested by priests and see what happens to their emotional development through life, how many suicides? How many molesters because of their early violations? It is a sickening, insidious cycle and oh so tragic. To blame child victims for this is sociopathic and deranged.
 
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Ninja0980 > Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






Plenty of girls abused by priests as well.
 Just look at how the church regards women in general, you think they would do anything to protect any of them being abused by someone in their charge?
 
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Willie Bill > Ninja0980  • 5 months ago 






Strange how we never hear about that. It is all awful and sick. There is so much pathology hidden behind and protected by the walls of the Vatican. Just reading through these comments, people are so much more aware of all the horrors that take place against kids. In the U.S., the Catholic Church is going to take a huge hit over the next couple of decades if it does not come clean and modernize; it's way too far behind the times to say the least.
 
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grada3784 > Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






Priests do learn, it seems. In the past, when priests were more into girls, there were more than a few Pfaffenkinder showing up as evidence.
 
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rabbit_ears > Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






Its like he outed himself with the statement the victims are to blame. What, did they just dress up extra sexy for church or something?
 
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Willie Bill > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Right...it's that ridiculous. But when it comes to kids, I can't joke. I want to hit these monsters over the head with a fucking Louisville Slugger, one by one and then find someplace to insert it. There, how'd ya enjoy that?
 
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rabbit_ears > Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






Agreed. I'm not joking either, what would entice them to think that children have consciously or unconsciously invited him to rape them? Which sick demented portion of their holy-my-ass minds sees anything a child does as being a sexual invitation of any sort?
That bishop that Ninja0980 is talking about shouldn't have a job he should have a cell in a psychiatric prison.
 
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Willie Bill > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






...he then said to the bishop...
 
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Willie Bill > Ninja0980  • 5 months ago 






There's the reality, hard and fast, right there; yet makes as much sense as a gay republican.
 
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Treant  • 5 months ago 






Send Kim Davis to meet the Pope, cause a pretty severe American incident, maybe you possibly get retired in a few weeks.
Rape children, get moved around for decades so you can rape more children.
Have a consensual relationship, get canned instantly.
There are three things wrong in the statements above. I'd challenge you to find them, but that's something wrong in every single statement.
 
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RemusL > Treant  • 5 months ago 






"Have a consensual relationship, get canned instantly."
No, it's actually "talk about any consensual relationships and get canned instantly". The rule of the church is "what happens in the church, stays in the church". You blab, you're gone.
 
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Stogiebear  • 5 months ago 






"[T]he eve of a synod of bishops who will discuss ... how to reach out to gays."
I don't know about you, but I can't wait to find out what the child rapists have to say about that!
 
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motordog > Stogiebear  • 5 months ago 






"...reach(ing) out to gays (the Catholic way)"
 
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billbear1961 > motordog  • 5 months ago 






With a bludgeon.
 
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Paul in Leesburg > motordog  • 5 months ago 






I'm kinda in love with you today...
 
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Treant > Stogiebear  • 5 months ago 






Like you, this is simply one of the most important meetings I'm going to be following this week. I'm looking forward to seeing how a church that reaches out to Kim Davis will also reach out to me. Particularly after the Pope trashed marriage equality in front of Congress and the Supreme Court.
I might spend several minutes laughing at the crap that comes out of their mouth, which would be more consideration than I've given the Catholic church in months.
 
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billbear1961 > Treant  • 5 months ago 






I also look forward to their next sermon on what's best for children!
Because we know all about their abiding concern for kids!
:-/
 
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Paul in Leesburg > Stogiebear  • 5 months ago 






If only this synod of bishops would stick to important subjects such as 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
 
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RemusL  • 5 months ago 






The Vatican statement is rather telling, and uncharacteristically honest. They don't really care that priests are gay or even that they have actual partners. Just don't talk about it to the press and the public.
 
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ChrisMorley > RemusL  • 5 months ago 






You haven't decoded a critical but obscure bit of catholic bureaucratic language:
"the other aspects of his situation shall remain the competence of his diocesan Ordinary”. http://www.news.va/en/news/fr-...
So far, he's only been sacked from his three theology jobs, but they haven't really got going yet on being done with him.
"the other aspects of his situation shall remain the competence of his diocesan Ordinary” means his Bishop (somewhere in Poland) will throw the book at him by launching official disciplinary action for
- breaking his promise to be celibate by having a partner
- living as a gay man (i.e. manifesting an "intrinsically disordered nature")
He'll be laicised (defrocked as a priest) but it will take some time.
 
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Blake Jordan  • 5 months ago 






If only religion would cease to exist.
 
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vorpal > Blake Jordan  • 5 months ago 






We're working on it.
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/0...
 
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Gay Fordham Prep Grad  • 5 months ago 






If all of the priests who are in healthy, committed adult (m/m and m/f) relations would come out the institution would not be able to survive in its current form. Hopefully with this high profile defection others will step up.
 
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billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Oh, dear, mustn't "disturb" the synod of bishops--dainty babies who think they have a right to condemn others for a natural orientation they refuse to hide and in or through which they are looking for love and, increasingly, life-long commitment.
These bishops NEED disturbing--they NEED shaking up.
 
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motordog > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






They NEED ejecting out an airlock...but I suppose shaking up will have to do.
 
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billbear1961 > motordog  • 5 months ago 






:-)
xo
 
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John Calendo  • 5 months ago 






Of course, the same argument works equally well for heterosexual priests who wish to marry. The whole celibacy requirement did not come into effect until 325 because the church wanted church property to remain in the hands of the Vatican and not be passed on to the priest's heirs. This requirement would be...or should be...an easy thing to change. The apostles were almost all married men, and it seems to have worked out well for the Prostestants.
For a history of celibacy in the priesthood (as well as women saying Mass) see:
https://www.futurechurch.org/b...
 
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Gigi > John Calendo  • 5 months ago 






It should be easy an easy thing to change...but we're talking about the RCC. It moves slower than my great aunt Clara on a hot and humid summer day.
 
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Ben in Oakland > Gigi  • 5 months ago 






Just tell her where you hide the whiskey, and you will see a miracle!!!
 
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billbear1961 > Gigi  • 5 months ago 






Only Aunt Clara can't help it, sweetie!
 
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Claude Jacques Bonhomme > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 







  
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Gay Fordham Prep Grad > John Calendo  • 5 months ago 






Actually it was a lot later than that. It was at the First Lateran Council of 1123 the rule came in, and then only in the Western church; Eastern Rite churches in communion with Rome allow married priests provided they are already married at the time of ordination.
 
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billbear1961 > Gay Fordham Prep Grad  • 5 months ago 






With a few exceptions, I can never keep straight all the heresies and disputes and dates when the jerks officially decided something!
God, what a tangled web of NONSENSE!
I was going to say that East and West went their separate ways with the Great Schism of 1054. (I remembered it was in the 11th century but had to google to find the exact date!)
But THEN I noticed you were speaking of "Eastern Rite churches in communion with Rome," about which I was either unaware or had completely forgotten!
I remember there was a time priests could remain married if that was their state before ordination.
John reminded me that one of principal reasons--if not THE principal reason--for enforcing priestly celibacy was because the Church wanted to hold on to its property.
GREED--for power or wealth--always seems to be the main motivating factor for what "Holy Mother Church" gets up to!
 
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Steve Teeter > billbear1961  • 5 months ago 






Same goes for married Anglican priests who convert. They can keep their wives. The alternative would be divorce, and we know what the RCC thinks of that.
 
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billbear1961 > Steve Teeter  • 5 months ago 






It's odd that they consider marriage so inferior to chaste celibacy, and yet it is SOMETIMES tolerated.
If it can be tolerated for Anglican priests who convert, frankly, why can't ANY priest marry?
EDIT: The desire of fascist Catholics to suck up to Kim Davis is bizarre.
After all, they must consider her, because of her status in what for THEM (and Jesus!) is an adulterous marriage, a dreadful sinner.
Apparently, their rabid hatred for us totally outweighs their distaste for adulteresses like Davis.
 
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billbear1961 > John Calendo  • 5 months ago 






It SHOULD also be easy to allow women to becomes priests.
They know damned well that Christ's society was totally dominated by men, and that there is NO excuse AT ALL for that continuing today.
In the very early days of Christianity, women exercised considerable power until jealous, power-hungry men stepped in and stopped it.
You know what they did to Mary Magdalene, who was apparently much more important to Christ than texts in the official canon let on.
They turned her into a reformed WHORE.
Only recently have they fully apologized for that CALUMNY.
But STILL women remain second-class humans inside the Church!
 
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Steve Teeter > John Calendo  • 5 months ago 






I read somewhere that 1st century Jews expected all their rabbis (teachers) to be married with families. Otherwise they just couldn't really understand the issues of married family life. An unmarried rabbi would just not be accepted, nor his teachings obeyed.
This goes for Jesus as well. So who was she......?
 
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grada3784 > Steve Teeter  • 5 months ago 






Mary, but He really loved John.
 
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StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






This priest applied himself and worked his way into the Holy See.
Church of the Doctrine I am pretty sure is a BFD position.
In all that time he hid himself (had to, he would not have gotten these promotions if he didn't), suppressed and no doubt prayed like Hell, but still was gay.
Look at the beginning of gray hair at his temples, he hid it all those years but then what happened to him is what happens to so many men who are gay or women who are lesbian, they meet somebody that literally sweeps them off their feet. It is head over heals, irresistible mutual attraction. LOVE! That person who you desire to be wholly with, comes first and everything else in your life comes second. We have seen this so many times, men or women who marry outside their sexual orientation, all goes well for a long time, but then that person comes into your life and you realize what you are missing.
This priest is right it is truly INHUMAN what the Catholic church expects of their gay followers. This is not celibacy like a priest who voluntarily chooses a life of celibacy, it is their choosing, it is instead forced celibacy. No Love for you OR ELSE!!! I hope this Polish priest lands softly. I wish him well.
 
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biki > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






If the church wasn't so stupidly fixated on this ideal of celibacy there might not be so damned many pedophiles wearing the collar. If the men could marry and have a normal sexual relationship with a partner of their desired gender, more men would become priests and who knows, maybe the church would reform most if not all of their bronze age rules. Like the prohibition against women priests.
 
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rabbit_ears > biki  • 5 months ago 






But you'd still have the big problem of imaginary sky daddies (or mommies) that tell you what to do.
 
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biki > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Yes, but many people for reasons that confound me, require a sky parent to be happy. And honestly, who am I to tell someone that they can't have that comfort?
 If the religions stopped being the bullies they are now, I wouldn't have any issue with them whatsoever. But when you tell members to toss out children, or talk of killing entire groups of people during the service, holding an entire country hostage to one religious viewpoint, and believe that women and children are worthless sub humans, thats when I have issues.
 
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Roger Mann > biki  • 5 months ago 






The issue of allowing priests to marry came up during Vatican II, but IIRC the Council sidestepped it, but that didn't stop the bishops (at least in Oz) directing their clergy to preach against it.
So at High Mass one Sunday Father Gregory OP announced he was going to speak on the subject, and launched into a twenty minute rehearsal of all the prescribed talking points -- sacred tradition, ornament to the priesthood, the Church is married to Christ, etc etc -- and as he droned on, we in the congregation looked at each other. This was not the Father Gregory we knew and loved. When he had finished, he left the pulpit, stood at the altar rails, and boomed "My dear people, everything I have just said is utter bullshit!" It was the only time in all my churchgoing youth I ever heard a congregation burst into applause.
Of course Cardinal Gilroy was furious and ordered the Prior to discipline Father Gregory -- only to be met with the bland reply from Prior Alphonsus "You know, your eminence, that as a Dominican house we are not subject to your jurisdiction. If you have a problem with Father Gregory's theology, you're free to take the matter up with our Superior General in Rome." And that was that. Gilroy proved a paper tiger.
As for refusing to admit women to the priesthood, the great stumbling block is Galatians 3 :28 -- "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for all are one in Christ Jesus." (emphasis mine)
St Therese of Lisieux evidently agreed, for she wrote in her diary that she could find no justification in Scripture for relegating women to second-class status in the Church by denying them the priesthood. And she is a Doctor of the Church!
 
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biki > Roger Mann  • 5 months ago 






Our world society is completely upside down, and its way past time for things to change. The sexes need to be equalized, legally, and socially. The law needs to become gender blind and stop sentencing women to lower punishments due to their sex.
It shouldn't matter to any one what race someone is, what religion they follow-or if they chose not to believe, who someone loves and wants to marry. Religion needs to be pulled back into a support for the soul of a person and out of the political arena.
And these stupid wars over an imaginary line on the ground is nothing more than stone age thinking, and its way past time to jettison that mentality.
 
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Roger Mann > biki  • 5 months ago 






I agree, and (at least in Oz) the law is gender-neutral, at least in intent. The problem in practice is that the legislators who write it and the judges and the bureaucrats and the police who administer it are not always as free from sexist bias as they are supposed to be.
Back in the 1920s, in the aftermath of World War I, Arnold Toynbee (in his classic A Study of History) made the very point that war is the most important institution that has been made obsolete by the advent of democracy -- Henry V of England making war upon Charles VI of France was a matter different in kind from the sovereign people of England (that is the entire population) making war upon the entire sovereign people of France. That is not war, it's licensed genocide -- complete with double-speak like "collateral damage" and "we are freeing the Iraqis from the tyrant Saddam"...
 
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Homo Erectus > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






You have a gift of insight and empathy. Don't ever change!
 
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Roger Mann > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






A point on your last paragraph, one which is too rarely made even by gay and gay-friendly Catholics:
Not only does a priest voluntarily choose a life of celibacy, at his ordination he is given special assistance from God ("sacramental grace") to live that life according to his vows. (Which makes diddling an altar boy or a parishioners' wife trebly sinful, as it breaches not only the second and sixth commandments but rejects grace, a sin against the Holy Spirit.) Whereas the Church not merely commands gay people to live a life of preternatural celibacy -- not so much as a cuddle, ever -- with only the threat of Hell to sustain or comfort us, it has for centuries insisted that command be incorporated into secular law.
Mgr Charasma is right. Even if every priest did live a life of perfect chastity, even if there were no altar-boy-diddling priests or enabling bishops, the "Well, we can do it, why can't you?" we hear constantly from the RCC clergy is indeed unmerciful and inhuman. "Whited sepulchres" (Matthew 23: 27) certainly applies.
 
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StraightGrandmother > Roger Mann  • 5 months ago 






Yes, the Catholic Church gives a life sentence of Solitary in Love. People who are gay ordered to live a Solitary in Love, Life. It's INHUMAN.
 
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rabbit_ears > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






Exactly. Having a REAL person to talk to that actually talks back to you is amazing. Trying to imagine that some illusionary father figure is telling you what to do with your life through random coincidences just doesn't compare to someone who actually loves you and is standing right in front of you having the gall to be blatantly real.
 
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Hue-Man  • 5 months ago 






Can you imagine him trying to find a job in either Italy or Poland?
"Gay middle-aged defrocked priest seeks employment. No marketable skills. Last job - working for the Inquisition."
 
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WiscoJoe > Hue-Man  • 5 months ago 






This guy will have no problem getting a job. Activist, social worker, motivational speaker, professor, ethicist, etc. Those are all marketable skills. I'm sure there are a lot of universities and nonprofits throughout Europe that would hire this guy in a heartbeat.
Also, if this guy worked for the Inquisition, he could probably make billions by patenting his time machine.
 
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Claude Jacques Bonhomme > WiscoJoe  • 5 months ago 






Exactly. He has plenty of skills and did a wealth of research. Liberated from the authority and doctrine, he is very marketable.
 
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Willie Bill > Hue-Man  • 5 months ago 






Maybe Mel Brooks will release History of the World, II and he can dance and sing in a production number with swimming nuns...Who knows!? Life is what we make it.
 
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Fyva Prold > Hue-Man  • 5 months ago 






Nobody expects Polish Inquisition.
 
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Stogiebear > Fyva Prold  • 5 months ago 






Quick, hide the sausage!
 
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2guysnamedjoe > Hue-Man  • 5 months ago 






Lots of legitimate universities still have theology departments, so if he has the academic credentials he might find a teaching position.
A book deal is also a possibility.
 
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ChrisMorley > 2guysnamedjoe  • 5 months ago 






He's already written the book. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/...
He's just lost both his theology teaching jobs in Rome's pontifical universities. In Poland Theology departments will be Catholic and he won't be allowed to teach there. In the USA out gay catholic theologians aren't allowed by their church to teach at catholic-run universities either. Anywhere in the world catholic-run theology departments will nix any appointment.
 
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WiscoJoe > 2guysnamedjoe  • 5 months ago 






He's also a bioethicist, another lucrative field.
 
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Gigi  • 5 months ago 






The bible says that if you look at someone with lust you've committed adultery. I asked my man how he felt about me having committed adultery and he said, "I don't have a problem with it as long as you take pictures."
 
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Treant > Gigi  • 5 months ago 






Are we married to the same man? Well, except mine wants me to use the video camera.
 
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Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






Even outside of the gay thing, and the ridiculousness of expecting lifelong celibacy, this is a church that still treats women as second class citizens and denies them access to their priesthood, and relegates them to subservient nunnery. These people don't live in reality in any facet of their being.
 
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Irish856 > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






Early writings of the Church suggest that all the apostles were
married when chosen by Jesus except John. However, from the Bible we
only know of the marriage of Peter (there is mention of his
mother-in-law)
John was known as "The one that Jesus Loved'
 
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JustSayin' > Irish856  • 5 months ago 






The prohibition against priests marrying or even having sex came from the 13th century Council of Ghent. It came about because the princes of the church, as well as bishops and some powerful priests were were having families both legitimately and illegitimately, and leaving their estates to their kids and family instead of to the church.
One thing most people don't realize from that early period of the church is that most of the higher ups did not get there on merit and a long life AF doing good works. They were the second and third sons of wealthy Lords, Comte's, land owners and Merchants who would not inherit as much as the first son as the primary heir. Their fathers chose to buy these positions in the church to both secure their sons futures as well as gain entrance to the political power of the church.
They typically paid a dowry to the church and for their sons upkeep and expenses. They provided funds so their sons could buy land or engage in trade to build the family coffers as well as their own private incomes.
At Ghent they felt that that accrued wealth of the priests belonged to the church and as such the priests had to stop breeding kids and getting married. Suddenly celibacy was the demand of God.
The church theologians know and admit this history but as a body they do not teach it to the believers lest the start to question the churches motives.
 
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BobSF_94117 > JustSayin'  • 5 months ago 






All the messiness of radical changes over nearly 2000 years gets wiped away with "it's always been this way". Frankly, it's the one aspect of the Church that convinces me it's really all just a giant grift.
 
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BearEyes > BobSF_94117  • 5 months ago 






we have always been at war with Oceana.
 
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Joann Prinzivalli > BearEyes  • 5 months ago 






I thought it was Eurasia or Eastasia that we were always at war with.
 
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grada3784 > Joann Prinzivalli  • 5 months ago 






That's presuming we were Oceania. Which we were in the book, even though the action took place on Air Strip One.
 
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bzrd > BobSF_94117  • 5 months ago 






My favorite gritter was mother-fuckin-theresa who was so happy to have the poor die on her floor being loved by that evil fuckin' witch rather than have a doctor tend to them with medicine in a comfy bed. She sent millions, Millions to Rome, and became a stinking saint. When she had heart problems, did she lie down on her floor and say it's the will of god, he loves me? No, she sought out the best doctors in Europe, what a kunt ! That is what the rcc is all about, grifters sent from their mythological, evil heaven.
 
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StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






Yeah this Spiritual Friendship command is for crap.
Spiritual Friendship doesn't keep you warm at night.
 
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biki > StraightGrandmother  • 5 months ago 






Or release those urges that get perverted into having to use power against children to receive sexual relief.
 
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MB  • 5 months ago 






So much for the "new and improved, kinder, gentler Pope/Vatican Catholicism."
 
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rabbit_ears > MB  • 5 months ago 






Oh, was there supposed to be one? I hadn't noticed.
 
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Homo Erectus > MB  • 5 months ago 






I'm shocked I tell ya! I thought the Vatican had a strict ENDA policy in place.
 
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Michael   • 5 months ago 






But he chose to take a vow of celibacy . Regardless about what you think about the RC church he took that vow. If he didn't want to be then he should quit. We can't have it both ways.
 
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Marc > Michael   • 5 months ago 






I agree with you on this. I really do. They took that oath. It's a stupid thing to try to abide by, but they took that oath.
The part that I take extreme issue with is that the Vatican isn't instantly sacking the child molesters. And THAT is a more egregious violation than shacking up with another consenting adult.
 
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Michael  > Marc  • 5 months ago 






Agreed Marc but can't get upset by this guy. He like Kim Davis needs to find a different job without those requirements
 
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rabbit_ears > Michael   • 5 months ago 






True. On the other hand he has a point. The oath of celibacy is antiquated. Priests of any sexual orientation are just human. The celibacy thing is just inviting disaster.
 
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Homo Erectus > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






Daddy always said "a stiff prick has no conscience".
 
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Friday > Michael   • 5 months ago 






I didn't see any indication he personally broke that vow. Being gay is not synonymous with 'having sex now.' Nor does that disagreeing with doctrine regarding gay non-clergy mean he's personally violated clergy vows. Though one might assume, given he has a partner, that's not necessarily what's going on. (Maybe he doesn't buy the celibacy thing period, it's not like plenty of Catholics wouldn't agree.)
 
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ChrisMorley > Friday  • 5 months ago 






You misunderstand the meaning of celibacy. It means not having a partner, technically being unmarried. His boyfriend Eduard is a hunk of partner evidence.
Irrespective of whether or not they have sex, he is no longer celibate and has broken that vow.
'Chastity' is the term for not having sex.
 
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biki > ChrisMorley  • 5 months ago 






technically, he is unmarried
 
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Friday > ChrisMorley  • 5 months ago 






Well, the dude *was* expecting to get shown the door over it, wasn't he.
 
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rabbit_ears > Friday  • 5 months ago 






Guilty by association.
 
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MikeBx2 > Michael   • 5 months ago 






That is what I was thinking.. If a Priest announced he has an opposite sex, intimate partner, wouldn't he be removed as well?
 
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Homo Erectus > MikeBx2  • 5 months ago 






Apparently not if the partner was less than 12 years old.
 
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Claude Jacques Bonhomme > Homo Erectus  • 5 months ago 






It would be swept under the rug, like a lot of other church promises.

  
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grada3784 > Michael   • 5 months ago 






Married people take vows of fidelity until death them do part. Works as well for priests as it does for married couple who don't immediately divorce.
 
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SilasMarner  • 5 months ago 






So, the church will fire him for being gay, despite their protests otherwise. But they won't fire the pedophiles. Those they will hide and transfer and protect. SMH
 
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LovesIrony  • 5 months ago 






I don't hang out with people that hate me. That's just me Krzystof, but you can if you want
 
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Comixbear  • 5 months ago 






It was wrong of them to speak out about being gay when we were about to talk about reaching out to gays, so of COURSE we had to sack him!
 
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Dagoril  • 5 months ago 






Ok I'd hit that. Yes I'm shallow, so what?!
 
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bryan  • 5 months ago 






In a cult where pedophiles are protected and gay relationships are demonized, the moral thing to do is to leave.
 
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Diggy  • 5 months ago 






I know I'm going against the grain here, but coming out as a priest is one thing....with your 'boyfriend" in tow is another ball of wax. I think if a straight priest unveiled his 'girlfriend' or 'wife' he would also be sacked. It's against his pledge of chastity and obedience . . . and, well, I have to side with the church (whom I loathe) with this one. No one is forced to become a priest or to take the vows. If you take em, keep em, or leave. Isn't this the same thing we've been bitching about with Kim Davis? Do your job or quit? And didn't most (if not all of us) want her fired?
 
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2guysnamedjoe > Diggy  • 5 months ago 






Charamsa says he expected to be dismissed, and he was. So both he and holy mutha church stood by their principles and made their respective points.
 
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ChrisMorley > 2guysnamedjoe  • 5 months ago 






He's only been sacked from his theology jobs, he's still a priest.
His Bishop (in Poland) will have to start action to laicise / defrock him for being non-celibate (having a partner), and living as a gay man (acting on his "intrinsically disordered"nature), and not wanting to abandon all he's just publicly chosen and remain a practising priest.
It'll take time.
 
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WiscoJoe > Diggy  • 5 months ago 






Exactly. If he wanted to be an asshole, he could refuse to leave his position and try to sue the Church for violating his religious liberty.
Good thing he's cool enough to actually know what it means to be a conscientious objector. Bonus points for doimg something so righteous on his way out.
 
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ChrisMorley > WiscoJoe  • 5 months ago 






He's not a US citizen so US rights don't apply. The catholic church doesn't grant employment rights to dissident priests.
He's Polish.
 
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grada3784  • 5 months ago 






How to reach out to gays? Firing one of us is not a really good way.
 
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rabbit_ears > grada3784  • 5 months ago 






I think we're beyond reaching out at this point. They need to do some serious penance that just ain't ever gonna happen.
 
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grada3784 > rabbit_ears  • 5 months ago 






I totally agree. The reaching out bit was a quote from the article on what's on the agenda that the bishops intend to to discuss: how to reach out to us.
 
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Octavio  • 5 months ago 






This is all so magically coincidental, isn't it?
 
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Texpat  • 5 months ago 






Since priests are not allowed to have a sexual relationship with anyone male or female, it would seem to me that it would be a double standard were he allowed to remain in the priesthood with declared male partner.
 
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Jean-Marc in Canada  • 5 months ago 






Inhumanity and Religion go hand in hand......how did he not know this? Well, at least he's out of their clutches, now if only he could completely quit the Church, that would be even better.
 
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Yalma Cuder-Zicci  • 5 months ago 






I thought this was really well said:
"If I failed to be open, if I didn't accept myself, I couldn't be a good priest in any case, because I couldn't act as an intermediary for the joy of God. Humanity has made great progress in its understanding of these issues, but the Church is lagging behind. This is not the first time, of course, but when you are slow to understand astronomy the consequences are not as serious as when the delay regards people's most intimate being."
 
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Steven Leahy > Yalma Cuder-Zicci  • 5 months ago 






Agree, well said, but "lagging" is an understatement.
 
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billbear1961 > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






Yes, I was going to make the same point.
 
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billbear1961 > Yalma Cuder-Zicci  • 5 months ago 






The dry use of irony is very effective in that last sentence.
Cuts the bastards down to size!
 
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delk  • 5 months ago 






He is far, far, far better off. Way better for it to play out the way it did than for him to just resign quietly. And I think his timing is spot on.
 
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GanymedeRenard  • 5 months ago 






Whilst I DO feel happy for him, it'd be disingenuous to think he didn't see that coming. He was working for the freaking Inquisition (aka, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), once headed by Herr Ratzinger for chrissake!
On a side note, Eduardo seems to be, ahem, charming - I hate you, priest! LOL
 
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Treant > GanymedeRenard  • 5 months ago 






"Forgive me, Father, for I am about to seriously sin all over you."
 
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Steven Leahy > Treant  • 5 months ago 






...wouldn't you want to be a fly on the wall, LOL - or maybe NOT!
 
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Treant > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






...I'd rather be the third in the bed.
 
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GanymedeRenard > Treant  • 5 months ago 






"Take the body of Christ - Ooops! Wrong body!"
 
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Roger Mann > GanymedeRenard  • 5 months ago 






He was appointed in 2003, in the last years of JP2's pontificate.
It would have been nice for JP to have a fellow Pole to talk to -- and I don't say that facetiously; it must be a very lonely business to be not only isolated by office but by rarely being able to speak in your own language. When JP visited Australia in 1986 the people on the ground here had to find a Polish-speaking priest to squire him around and translate for him. They settled on an old school-friend of mine, who was from the same part of Poland -- and that was the start of a life-long friendship. Before he left, JP gave my friend an open invitation to see him whenever he was in Rome, and over the years they spent several long evenings together over dinner and a wodka or two in the Pope's private apartment (eat your heart out, Kim Davis!) and chatting not as Pope to priest but simply as one Pole to another.
 
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bambinoitaliano  • 5 months ago 






When are the gays going to realize these major religious organizations have no room for them. It's a shell corporation to rake in money. They have nothing to do with faith or believing in god. This has always been a personal relationship, why are the believers need a middle man or agent to validate their own faith?
 
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Willie Bill > bambinoitaliano  • 5 months ago 






Good points; though sometimes life dishes some gruesome circumstances that can be softened a bit when one can go to a house of worship to sit before the cross. Rather see the institution move into the 21st century and evolve for the sake of ALL its followers.
 
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Treant > Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






One could get better therapy going to an actual licensed therapist with no religious agenda.
 
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Willie Bill > Treant  • 5 months ago 






Of course they can, but not everyone will avail themselves to gather tools they need to move forward. I have gotten comfort from both on different occasions, neither would be absolute for everyone. Critically thinking individuals will always seek out greater knowledge; what about the rest?
 
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bambinoitaliano > Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






At best those churches gathering is like group therapy and the pastors or the popes are great counsellors or therapists. They are far from representation of god. After all they are human just like us with many flaws. Somehow the followers misplace their trust and faith onto these flaws individuals. Did the scripture not mention something about worshipping idols and false gods? Yet millions collapse at the sight of the pope and believing those snake oil sales men have the ability to exorcize their demons away.
 
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Willie Bill > bambinoitaliano  • 5 months ago 






Once again, I have to agree. Yet my point was more a quiet moment alone in the church, it can be a powerful comfort when things are grim which helps re-orient one back into the groove so to speak. Also, I don't think that priests or nuns are in the correct place to offer any sort of therapy, it would be devoid of necessary life experience and therefore ineffective, so LonelyLiberal is right on there. With all the awful sex abuse that the church has unsuccessfully failed to cover up how can anyone have blanket trust anymore. I think cultivating a personal relationship with God and Jesus and the Virgin Mother frees one from the need of being tethered to a church...unless one lives in the Bible Belt where all aspects of one's social life AND POLITICS are organized through the church. After living in ARKansas for 3 months I witnessed this and yes, I went running back to NYC never to look back again, lol.
 
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Piet  • 5 months ago 






Oh my gawd -- I can hear the castanets now. Wagner, Wagner, where are you? We have a modern Tannhäuser for you!
 
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JaniceInToronto  • 5 months ago 






He's an idiot for even being a Catholic. Bigotry and hatred run deep in the church.
 
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Ginger Snap  • 5 months ago 






He should have chosen child molesting as his church studies he could have kept his job.
 
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rabbit_ears > Ginger Snap  • 5 months ago 






Ouch! LOL!
 
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motordog  • 5 months ago 






Robin Williams could have played him in the bio-pic. I guess now it will have to be Steve Carell.
 
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EdmondWherever > motordog  • 5 months ago 






I'm thinking Fassbender.
 
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Andrea_Rae  • 5 months ago 






"....including how to reach out to gays."
you can start by not firing them immediately......morons, lets drop all the bs words and start with some actions.
 
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ben  • 5 months ago 






am I the only one who noticed that his name sounds a lot like "Charisma?"
 
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Roger Mann > ben  • 5 months ago 






No. *waves hand*
 
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Stev84  • 5 months ago 






But child rapists get asylum from prosecution in their home countries
 
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billbear1961 > Stev84  • 5 months ago 






Because their home countries--except for Belgium, I'm told--are too GUTLESS to stand up to the RCC.
 
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Christopher  • 5 months ago 






I'll just leave this here.
 
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d.  • 5 months ago 






Who am I to judge? I'm the pope, that's who, now get out you hell-bound homosexual.
 
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Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






One step forward, one step back.
 
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Stogiebear > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






The Vatican Tango!
 
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bzrd > Stogiebear  • 5 months ago 






Let's dance
 
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dcurlee  • 5 months ago 






All I have running through my head is a gay version of Thornbirds
 
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DaveDocSC > dcurlee  • 5 months ago 






Me too. He's a cutie.
 
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Lakeviewbob > DaveDocSC  • 5 months ago 






Sigh! I agree!
 
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Humm?? > DaveDocSC  • 5 months ago 






You guys are creaming about a younger photo of the priest? Are you still as worked up over the older priest now - grey hair and all?
 
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Marc > Humm??  • 5 months ago 






Grey hair instantly exponeniates hotness for some of us....
 
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Gigi > Humm??  • 5 months ago 






Oh hell ya! He's mighty fine, although I'd prefer him in a tight pair of jeans and a black t-shirt.
 
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Greg B. > Humm??  • 5 months ago 






He's only 43.
 
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Hardley > Humm??  • 5 months ago 






Ahh yes, the grand old age of 43, ready for the care home isn't he? After all that's 120 in gay years ;-)
 
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lymis > Humm??  • 5 months ago 






Personally, I think he looks just fine older.
 
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Joe knows who I am. > dcurlee  • 5 months ago 






So you mean the original version then.
 
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Gustav2  • 5 months ago 






Good Gawd! You can't work for what used to be the office of the Inquisition if you are in a gay relationship!
 
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James  • 5 months ago 






I have no sympathy for gay people who profess a religion that despises them. Why is their plea for the church to change? If religions have any integrity they should stay true to the beliefs of the ancients: the sun revolves around the earth; an eye for an eye; marry your rape victim; whatever, while everybody ELSE evolves to a point where religions vanish as irrelevant to human life.
 
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Houndentenor  • 5 months ago 






Silly. Everyone knows priests are supposed to be in the closet!
 
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Gustav2 > Houndentenor  • 5 months ago 






Gay priests at the Vatican? Well, I never.
 
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Houndentenor > Gustav2  • 5 months ago 






Including the ex-pope who still lives there.
 
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Ogre Magi  • 5 months ago 






Looking at the comments here. I am amazed (and appalled )at how many fans the Catholic church seems to have among LGBT people
 
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Claude Jacques Bonhomme  • 5 months ago 






He didn't expect to keep his job. He did this at a time when the RCC synod meets to discuss family. He's plopping the issue of LGBTs and their rights to a family life, as well as celibacy for priests and its nefarious effects, on the table at the best possible time.
I bet, though, that the institution will not take the opportunity to evolve on either issue.
 
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BobSF_94117 > Claude Jacques Bonhomme  • 5 months ago 






It's the best possible time but perhaps the worst possible way. At least in the view of some people. I don't think you can look at this pope's run-up to the Synod and not see a purpose and a plan. Without being on the inside, it's impossible to know whose idea this outing was and who helped arrange it. Even the reaction condemning his actions but not his "sins" sends an interesting message.
 
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Sacked Or Sucked  • 5 months ago 






Sacked? Or sucked? I mean...after all..it is the Vatican.
 
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Robert Conner  • 5 months ago 






OK, he's out and as a result he's out. This is the RCC after all. He's a theologian and this, folks, is not the mystery of the triune God we're talking here. Personally, the biggest religious mystery I've contemplated is why all Christians don't just call it quits and find something rational and fun to do with their lives, but I'm not Catholic so what do I know from religious mumbo jumbo?
 
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worstcultever  • 5 months ago 






god this stupid, stupid, dumbass, ridiculous world ..
how much can a girl take
 
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BrotherFlounder  • 5 months ago 






Was he sacked for being gay or sacked because he had a partner?
 
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Treant > BrotherFlounder  • 5 months ago 






He was sacked for daring to mention the gay/partner thing in public.
Basically, in the church, you can fuck anybody you want from the age where they can lift your cassock, but you can't be open about it. Yes, I know the hypocrisy astounds, but there it is.
 
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JustSayin'  • 5 months ago 






I wonder how many people here realize that the church in Rome is a huge governmental bureaucracy? That decisions are made by department heads outside of direct intervention by the pope, just like state and federal department heads make decisions outside the governor or president?
That there are some battles that take political currency to fight?
Neither the pope or the president had a magic wand to wave giving into the demands of every small group of complainers, yet surprisingly so many get in a snit if their personal demands are not met by a person they don't even speak too much less knowmor have influence with.
As much as I am happy this guy made the political move to come out at this time, he knew that he would lose all of his standing. He had the courage to give it all up to advance the public conversation; how many of you have or would do the same? I know that among us eldergays the majority were silent for most of their lives, afraid to lose what they had. Not coming out, publicly or privately until late in life. Yet many of those same eldergays are the worst at demanding others change to fit their personal vision and wants.
 
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Max_1 > JustSayin'  • 5 months ago 






It's a Caesar's Palace...
 
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Claude Jacques Bonhomme >   • 5 months ago 






As a scholar within the RCC, he had the opportunity to research the issues of LGBTs and celibacy for priests. He came to the conclusion that the church position is ridiculous on both issues, came out and is fully aware that he can't stay within. (Same as when you sign up to work within any organization, study it from within, and realize you need to speak up against what's going on inside... fully expecting you'd have to leave.)
He did so, with maximum impact, since he can't do it from within, forcing the issues in the limelight as the synod on families starts. Smart move.
 
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Roger Mann > Claude Jacques Bonhomme  • 5 months ago 






Aquinas held that if one is convinced in his conscience that the Church is wrong on some important matter God will not condemn him for leaving but for the hypocrisy of staying.
But if I read aright, Monsignor Charasma hasn't been defrocked, let alone excommunicated, just sacked from his job in the Vatican department where he worked. (By whom, one asks: his position doesn't appear to be high enough in the ranks for the Pope to have intervened personally.) They'll find him a less, um, sensitive administrative job; and if he decides to leave the RCC, there are other, less intolerant Churches who'll be glad to welcome him. And secular jobs where his experience as a teacher will stand him in good stead. He's a brave man and he'll fall on his feet.
 
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Homo Erectus >   • 5 months ago 






I wonder if Kim Davis is listening.
 
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Willie Bill >   • 5 months ago 






People evolve; sometimes.
 
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WiscoJoe  • 5 months ago 






Brave man. This is what a conscientious objector looks like. Bravo. The more people like this stand up, the better.
There are quite a few gay Priests. Lord knows there are a lot of non-celibate Priests. Apparently this one was just too open and/or unapologetic about it. Anyway, I generally support the right of any organization to fire any employee that can no longer fulfill his job duties, even if one of those duties is pretending to be celibate.
The Monsignor will continue the good fight, and now that he's been defrocked he'll probably have a lot more freedom and power to actually fight for justice within and without his Church. We need more people like him.
 
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motordog  • 5 months ago 






Your new life is about to being, kryz...including looking for a new job. Good luck, my sista!
 
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zhera  • 5 months ago 






Congratulations! Your life is (hopefully) about to become more productive and honest.
I would think 'having a partner' is what the Vatican couldn't accept, in addition of course to the demonstration.
 
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Joann Prinzivalli > zhera  • 5 months ago 






No - it is "having a partner and publicly flaunting it so you 'create a scandal in the church.'" It is the same reason for me being thrown out for being trans (I was the cantor for the 8 AM Mass every Sunday, and was active in the parish), and for gy friends of mine who got married in Canada in 2003 (not just because they were married but because they were interviewed in a newspaper about it) who were thrown out of their Brnox parish and choir.
It is lso the same reason for the *coverup* of the priest pedophile scandal for many years. Being a pedophile wasn;t the scandal, but spreading the news "creates a scandal in the Church" so the priest goes to another parish and the victims and their families were threatened if they said anything.
 
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Jeffrey  • 5 months ago 






I don't have a whole lot of sympathy. He worked for an actively anti gay organization which supports raping of kids and taking money from the poor to keep layers of 24kt gold on their walls. So in the grand scheme of things I don't really give a fuck.
 
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Heroic Hal  • 5 months ago 






Y'all realize that he'd have been fired if he announced he was in a relationship with a woman, right?
 
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Reality Check > Heroic Hal  • 5 months ago 






Yes, both policies are idiotic! What is your point? Are you standing up for the insanity of the Catholic Church?
 
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Heroic Hal > Reality Check  • 5 months ago 






No, my point is that every single time something bad happens and the person who it happens to is gay, it doesn't mean that him being gay is why it happened. Because it's hard to argue that he *wouldn't* have been fired if his partner had been a woman instead of a man, there is nothing in this story that indicates he would have been fired solely for being gay if he were also celibate. Maybe he would have been. I don't know. But that isn't the point. The point is that *the story as it actually is* doesn't tell us one way or the other how things would have turned out *under other circumstances*. (This is exactly the same as people claiming that the Sodom story is about homosexuality. Unless one thinks the locals' demand to rape Lot's visitors would have been OK with God if the angels had taken the form of women instead of men, the conclusion that homosexuality was what God was taking issue with is an illogical one. It seems much more likely that God's anger was over the violence sexual demands, not over whether the demands were homosexual in nature.)
 
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Gustav2 > Heroic Hal  • 5 months ago 






It's not the fucking, it's the relationship that is bad!
 
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RemusL > Gustav2  • 5 months ago 






No, it's the talking about it in public that's bad. The first rule of Church Club is you don't talk about Church Club.
 
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Irish856  • 5 months ago 






This guy was let go not because he is Gay... but because he announced to the world he was in a relationship...
The same thing would have happened to a straight priest who was with a woman.
 
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Steven Leahy > Irish856  • 5 months ago 






Had they commented on his dismissal strictly to that effect, they might have had a tiny bit more credibility. But their making up a bunch of BS about the "demonstration" and the immediacy of this suggests their motivation was more than just lack of celibacy, especially considering this church's history with LGBT issues & people in general.
Outside of all of that, their expectations on how their clergy and nuns have to "live" is unrealistic and partially explains the great difficulty they have in attracting and retaining priests and nuns in many places.
 
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Irish856 > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






Heck... If you announced to the world that you were going to do a protest against your Boss and company... do you think they would welcome you with open arms?
I doubt that anyone would allow that.
 
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Steven Leahy > Irish856  • 5 months ago 






My boss doesn't try to exclude me for being gay,
 
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Irish856 > Steven Leahy  • 5 months ago 






How about other issues that you and your boss do not agree on?
there are few places on earth where you can have public protest against one of the big talking points of your Boss... bet they right or wrong
(I believe that they are wrong)
 
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Fantasy World of Irreality > Irish856  • 5 months ago 






And this makes it better to explain away that priests can not have consensual sex - gay or straight?
 
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rvflorida > Fantasy World of Irreality  • 5 months ago 






If he can't do the job he swore an oath to do, he should resign.
Why would a sane gay guy be a Catholic priest anyway?
 
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Irish856 > Fantasy World of Irreality  • 5 months ago 






Where did I say anything about whether it is better?... all I said was ... odds are it would happen to a straight priest also...
I think that forced celibacy is wrong.... Heck eve the Bible does
 
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danolgb > Irish856  • 5 months ago 






This guy was let go not because he is Gay... but because he announced to the world he was in a relationship... with someone over 14.
There. Fixed it for you.
 
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D  • 5 months ago 






Polish priest reveals he's gay in the movie "Article 18"* being made by a group of Polish LGBT activists.
  

k
 
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Steven B  • 5 months ago 






,,,
 
Thumbnail
 
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Lil Nephew  • 5 months ago 






All the way to Monsignor at the Vat. That's quite the career suicide he took. Kudos to him. He must really love his guy.
 
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sandollar_man  • 5 months ago 






This priest will be fine, once he realizes a few things:
1) There are plenty of other organizations that he can associate with, where he can help the emotional needs of his community.
2) You don't need to be religious to be moral, and you don't need to be moral to be religious.
3) Jesus has been dead for 2000 years.
4) During the last 100,000 years, 10 billion of us have already died, and not a single one displayed evidence to the remaining, to prove that there's an afterlife.
Therefore, believing in an afterlife to direct your actions, is pointless.
5) Plenty of reasons to be good to others, without the shame and guilt, imposed by religion.
 
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greenmanTN  • 5 months ago 






Hmmmm. They might "reach out" to gays, but for younger members of the church they offer a reach-around!
 
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Y. Saito  • 5 months ago 






But priests who have molested children can keep their jobs, sometimes form many decades.
 
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Gianni  • 5 months ago 






When you know the rules of the club and you break them, you get what you've just asked for. He knew what the response would be and did it anyway. His choice.
 
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olandp  • 5 months ago 






"...it said giving the interview and the planned demonstration was 'grave
and irresponsible' given their timing on the eve of a synod of bishops
who will discuss family issues, including how to reach out to gays."
We all know that the way to reach out to gays is to fire them as soon as they let it be known.
 
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BobSF_94117  • 5 months ago 






The interview in Il Corriere della Sera is just one of several pieces. His coming out and getting sacked makes a lot more sense (the reasoning, I mean) when you see everything he said (not that I disagree with him).
http://www.corriere.it/
 
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BestAltarBoyEver  • 5 months ago 






(A) Sounds like he wanted to leave the church in a dramatic fashion. Mission accomplished.
(B) I'd love to chow down on the uncut Polish sausage.
 
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SFHarry  • 5 months ago 






"He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant."
Does every restaurant have its own gay activist :)
 
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TheSeer  • 5 months ago 






Corrupt enemies of human decency and paedo enablers.
 
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abqdan  • 5 months ago 






"Vatican priest admits to secretly marrying woman - gets sacked immediately". Same thing. I dislike all organized religion, and the Roman Catholic Cult in particular. But hey - if you're going to play the game, you have to stick to the rules. They don't allow priests to have ANY relationship - they have to remain celibate. So why is this news?
 
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Willie Bill  • 5 months ago 






The Catholic Church is still operating in the 1950's; egregiously above the law, slow to accept change and social justice. Our new Pope lends some hope to this hopelessly anachronistic and self-serving behemoth of a wealth hoarder; sell me a can of salvation for the dollar I put into the collection basket and do nothing with it that helps the hungry, homeless or ill. Nah, still waiting to see if Pope Francis can help the wretched move into the light and AT LEAST stop covering up child sex abuse and blaming the victims for it.
One disgusted and disheartened Catholic who thanks God for his ability to maintain his faith and good soul without the help of this institution.
 
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BigGuy  • 5 months ago 






He was not fired for being gay. He was fired for poor judgement and
immaturity. The upcoming Synod is for the Church to discuss family
issues. His coming out upstages the Pope and the Synod. He came out
to serve his ego, not to serve the Church, and not to serve
Christianity.
 
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BobSF_94117 > BigGuy  • 5 months ago 






His coming out this way is certainly an attempt to grab the microphone, so to speak. But I don't think it's merely a personal outburst of ego. This was planned and well orchestrated, involving the press of several nations. He didn't do this alone.
In the end, it could well backfire, but this was a strategic political move.
 
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BigGuy > BobSF_94117  • 5 months ago 






Maybe its not all his ego, but how can it be wise to try to upstage a popular Pope?
 
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BobSF_94117 > BigGuy  • 5 months ago 






Upstage? We can't know -- we'll never know -- the how and why of this. It could all be done with a wink and a nod. There's something mighty odd about a "furious" Vatican not utterly condemning a sexually active homosexual priest. There's something significant in what they didn't say about this.
 
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