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Dear distressed gay mormon teen who is reading this site  
Posted: 30 January 2016 11:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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jellybean.studio
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We like you.  You are welcome here.  We're sorry the church has come out with a retarded policy.  Please keep in mind they have  come out with a lot of retarded policies over the years that have affected a lot of all different kinds of people.  You are not bad or evil or unloved or unworthy.  Seriously, you arent.  Unless you killed a puppy.  Then I don't like you.  But if you haven't killed a puppy then hi, nice to meetcha, I'm an old lady who has worked in the gay community.  I found it much more pleasant than the mormon community, to be honest.  So if you are having a rough time, please know that the gay community loves you, will support you, cares about you, wants you to stick around and get to know you.  So does this postmormon community.  And so will everyone who's not an idiot.
 
If you're having a rough time please check out the It Gets Better page listed under Our Library at the top.  I made that page.  And I made it so that you can find some help and encouragement when you are feeling like you just can't keep going.  Because we all feel that way at times.  But it gets better.  And you need to stick around for the good parts.  And we love you.  There is a whole wide world of amazing, wonderful experiences ahead for you.  
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“The main thing in life is to not be afraid to be human”
- some unicorn

The views and opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of jellybean.studio  ...oh, wait…

“I am all the ages I have ever been”
              ~Madeleine L’Engle

mormon family - living with strangers that profess their love for you with sharp sticks, isolation and exclusion
-MelloMarsh on LAM


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 01:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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I second that !! 

   


Posted: 31 January 2016 04:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Although as an atheist, I find the following religious perspective worth consideration when one considers who really is blessed with special access to moral truth for with others simply may not be privy.
The 2014 Episcopal message from the National Cathedral.
By Rev Jerry Hall
"I’m old enough to remember a time when Christian churches, including our own Episcopal Church, segregated its churches and actively participated in racism. I’m old enough to remember the ordination of women movement, when many in our church found ingenious theological arguments to deny women leadership roles and so promoted sexism. In its wisdom, the church came to its senses and labeled both racism and sexism as sinful. And now we find ourselves at the last barrier—call that barrier homophobia, call it heterosexism. We must now have the courage to take the final step and call homophobia and heterosexism what they are. They are sin. Homophobia is a sin. Heterosexism is a sin. Shaming people for whom they love is a sin. Shaming people because their gender identity doesn’t fit neatly into your sense of what it should be is a sin. Only when all our churches say that clearly and boldly and courageously will our LGBT youth be free to grow up in a culture that totally embraces them fully as they are.
Fifteen years ago this month, Matthew Shepard was killed in Laramie, Wyoming. Three years ago last month, Tyler Clementi committed suicide in New York City. Matthew was 21 when he died, Tyler 18. Both young men were gay. We here at the cathedral are taking this weekend both to remember and honor Matthew and Tyler and to commit ourselves to standing with and for LGBT youth. "It’s more than tragic—in fact it’s shameful—that faith communities, especially Christian ones, continue to be complicit in putting our children at risk and abetting the attitudes that oppress them, thereby encouraging the aggressors who would subject our children to pain, humiliation, and violence." "Young LGBT men and young women will continue to be vulnerable to the sins of homophobia and heterosexism, to the violence of hate and fear until we in the church can say to homosexuals now what it has said to heterosexuals for 2,000 years. Your sexuality is good. The church not only accepts it. The church celebrates it and rejoices in it. God loves you as you are, and the church can do no less."
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“If they can get you to believe in absurdity, then they can get you to commit atrocity.” -Voltaire


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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jellybean.studio:
We like you.  You are welcome here.  We're sorry the church has come out with a retarded policy.  Please keep in mind they have  come out with a lot of retarded policies over the years that have affected a lot of all different kinds of people.  You are not bad or evil or unloved or unworthy.  Seriously, you arent.  Unless you killed a puppy.  Then I don't like you.  But if you haven't killed a puppy then hi, nice to meetcha, I'm an old lady who has worked in the gay community.  I found it much more pleasant than the mormon community, to be honest.  So if you are having a rough time, please know that the gay community loves you, will support you, cares about you, wants you to stick around and get to know you.  So does this postmormon community.  And so will everyone who's not an idiot.
 
If you're having a rough time please check out the It Gets Better page listed under Our Library at the top.  I made that page.  And I made it so that you can find some help and encouragement when you are feeling like you just can't keep going.  Because we all feel that way at times.  But it gets better.  And you need to stick around for the good parts.  And we love you.  There is a whole wide world of amazing, wonderful experiences ahead for you.  
 
 
A possible addition for the It Gets Better Page?
Utah Violence & Injury Prevention Program
January 29 at 1:42pm ·
"With the recent reports about LGBTQ youth and suicide from Deseret News and The Salt Lake Tribune, we want to remind parents and teens that help is available for anyone experiencing crisis, bullying, threats, or suicidal thoughts.
A new mobile app, SafeUT, can be downloaded on Android and Apple devices, giving anyone confidential, anonymous communication with crisis counselors at the University Neuropsychiatric Institute."

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“If they can get you to believe in absurdity, then they can get you to commit atrocity.” -Voltaire


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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I agree as well, but I truly wish people would stop using the word "retarded" as a descriptor. There are several cases of Down Syndrome and other developmental deficits in my extended family and believe me, I know the hurtfulness which comes with that label. 
 
I suppose being raised with special people has given me a degree of empathy and compassion for those who are differently abled. I don't take offense, but really? We're better than that. We've stopped saying "That's so gay," and so we should stop saying "That's retarded."
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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jellybean.studio
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Matter Unorganized:
I agree as well, but I truly wish people would stop using the word "retarded" as a descriptor. There are several cases of Down Syndrome and other developmental deficits in my extended family and believe me, I know the hurtfulness which comes with that label. 
 
I suppose being raised with special people has given me a degree of empathy and compassion for those who are differently abled. I don't take offense, but really? We're better than that. We've stopped saying "That's so gay," and so we should stop saying "That's retarded."
 
 I feel it's an accurate description.
 
Retarded: less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.
 
I feel that is exactly the case with the policy.  The church and its leaders are behind the times.
 
And by the way, my sister is developentally disabled.  I have plenty of empathy and compassion.  I also believe in using words that convey the point I am trying to make, and it was a deliberate choice.  Sorry if it bothered you but I don't agree with your comparison in this case.  My sister is offended by the phrse special, as am I - which just goes to show, we all have a different prespective.   I'm okay with my choice here.
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“The main thing in life is to not be afraid to be human”
- some unicorn

The views and opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of jellybean.studio  ...oh, wait…

“I am all the ages I have ever been”
              ~Madeleine L’Engle

mormon family - living with strangers that profess their love for you with sharp sticks, isolation and exclusion
-MelloMarsh on LAM


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 10:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Fair enough. 
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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We love you here, find a group in Utah, that can help you transition safely out of the church.
 
And when you can afford it, get the "H" out of Utah....get to any state that has little to do with the church, or/and find groups that help you cope with the hatred.
 
They are out there, and they are loving and kind.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 31 January 2016 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Young gay friends, it's a tough spot you're in: raised and surrounded by people you have probably loved and whose love you need. I try to not blame them for being influenced by the powerful but morally wrong-minded church. Take comfort in the incredible track record of their official leaders,  consistently wrong on so many of the moral issues of our times. The LDS church will eventually come around to seeing the worth of your life, thoughts, and social contributions. It will change as it has in the past: when public opinion becomes too staunchly against the leadership and it is beginning top cost the church money. Then some new revelation or policy will be released and the church will rapidly begin distancing itself from its stance of 2016 and before. Between now and then take heart: You may be hurting but you're not defective or wrong. If it helps, you are welcome to introduce yourself here. It's okay to do so while protecting your identity.  In fact, please protect your identity! But share your heart and see if it is welcomed and loved. Our society it's changing in good ways and eventually the church will follow; it always has. In the meantime let yourself be loved here.  

   


Posted: 31 January 2016 06:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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tab:
jellybean.studio:
We like you.  You are welcome here.  We're sorry the church has come out with a retarded policy.  Please keep in mind they have  come out with a lot of retarded policies over the years that have affected a lot of all different kinds of people.  You are not bad or evil or unloved or unworthy.  Seriously, you arent.  Unless you killed a puppy.  Then I don't like you.  But if you haven't killed a puppy then hi, nice to meetcha, I'm an old lady who has worked in the gay community.  I found it much more pleasant than the mormon community, to be honest.  So if you are having a rough time, please know that the gay community loves you, will support you, cares about you, wants you to stick around and get to know you.  So does this postmormon community.  And so will everyone who's not an idiot.
 
If you're having a rough time please check out the It Gets Better page listed under Our Library at the top.  I made that page.  And I made it so that you can find some help and encouragement when you are feeling like you just can't keep going.  Because we all feel that way at times.  But it gets better.  And you need to stick around for the good parts.  And we love you.  There is a whole wide world of amazing, wonderful experiences ahead for you.  
 
 
A possible addition for the It Gets Better Page?
Utah Violence & Injury Prevention Program
January 29 at 1:42pm ·
"With the recent reports about LGBTQ youth and suicide from Deseret News and The Salt Lake Tribune, we want to remind parents and teens that help is available for anyone experiencing crisis, bullying, threats, or suicidal thoughts.
A new mobile app, SafeUT, can be downloaded on Android and Apple devices, giving anyone confidential, anonymous communication with crisis counselors at the University Neuropsychiatric Institute."

 
 JBS, can you edit the It Gets Better page?  It is beyond my awesome moderator powers...
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
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[Oahu Post Mormon ...] 
Third Thirsty Thursday @ Freemont Street 11/19/15
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
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Southern Utah Postmormon Association to meet November 1st at the Red Lion in St. George
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
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Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
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Modern Mormon Sexuality  
Posted: 29 January 2016 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Denker
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     I believe it is high time for a major scholarly sociological study on modern Mormon sexual attitudes and behavior.  In order for such a study to be valid, the pool of participants would need to represent all adult age groups and all status categories such as member, former member, active, inactive, married, and single.  Also, participant responses would need to be absolutely candid, which would be the sticky part.  Persuading TBMs to even participate would present a formidable challenge.  For most TBMs, the mere mention of the word "sex" is "evil speaking".
 
     The perfect study, of course, would be impossible to actually carry out but it doesn't hurt to do a little speculation on what the results of such a study might show.  I believe I have a fairly reliable feel for what might be revealed.  I believe candid responses to the survey questions, especially the open-ended ones, would show that church views, teachings, and policies on sex, for the most part, are repressive, scientifically inaccurate, and strongly biased toward the negative, and that they have highly deleterious effects on individual self-worth, on marriages, and on trust of church authorities.  
 
     Sexuality is one of God's greatest gifts to his children, to be responsibly guarded and expressed, and if properly expressed can bring immeasurable joy, trust, and self-worth.  For this reason, it ought to flourish within the bounds of marriage, and its free expression ought to be encouraged.  Unfounded inhibitions on the part of either the man or the woman, for example, would constitute a forfeiture of one of life's greatest blessings.
 
     If any of you have views or experiences you would be willing to share, I would love to hear from you. 


   


Posted: 29 January 2016 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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The key would be not to use the word SEX. That will put many off. "Intimacy" might be a more appealing term. And it would have to be put to women by another woman. If they thought a man was behind this, they would clam up.
 
My ex was so frigid she could not even talk about her own body parts without feeling guilty or dirty. She never mentioned sex, but on one single occasion did use the word intimacy, and it was really, really difficult for her to do so. 
 
(The funny thing was, after we had split up, she tried to win me back with sex, of all things. I never fell for it, no matter how horny I may have been. In fact, I called her out on it. I finally said that if I agreed to sex, she would probably have an expectation that I would move back in with her. She admitted that was her motive, and that was the end of that.)
 
Anyway, the way mormonism messes with sexuality, it would be difficult to get any sampling, and an honest one at that, from many women in the church. The men, I think, would be more forthcoming. 
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Posted: 29 January 2016 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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Such a study will never happen.  Participation would be frowned upon in the church to say the least.
 
The things they taught teenagers when I was that age is criminal. 


   


Posted: 29 January 2016 01:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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OK, I'm going out on a limb here.  IMVHO, I believe god made sex to be enjoyed.  Just look at the equipment, the sensations, the build-up and then the release  --  AWESOME!  I used to tell my students that there is something magical in making love with the one you love!  And it took the morg with the 15 geriatric penishood holders to turn it something dirty, filthy and nasty.  I bet pinocchio joe and bring'em young enjoyed their illicit affairs.  Both of them were such horned-toaddies! 

   


Posted: 29 January 2016 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
CorbinBrodie
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leftasteen:
Such a study will never happen.  Participation would be frowned upon in the church to say the least.
 
The things they taught teenagers when I was that age is criminal. 
 
I think this would be the main issue, definitely. There's also the fact that many Mormons - particularly women - have spent their whole lives pretending they get sexual satisfaction in ways scripted by the Church: i.e. it's only about making babies or expressing love. They - and Mormon men - never get to legitimately "play" in the ways that most humans quite naturally and - in the spirit of fun - blend sex and the real existential experience of being alive. I remember seeing a photo of Monsen's wife once: I'd never seen a more angry or frustrated woman.
 
Since I'm gay I also wonder about that aspect of it. Statistically speaking, there must be plenty of gay or bi Mormons. Would they answer any study honestly? And if they did, would they answer it as themselves or would they answer it as the "themselves" they've been trained from birth to think they should be?
 
 


   


Posted: 29 January 2016 02:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Taking into consideration of extreme religions and their circumcision of females with regard to the emotional castration of lds women I doubt that such a study could get real and unbiased complete responses for tabulation and interpretive analysis. An honest answer in the mormon arena usually gets run through the scripted narrative of acceptibility to the structural government. Fear and guilt muzzle real love and sexual expression. Is there a difference between modern and early mormon sexuality? 
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Posted: 01 February 2016 06:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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To answer your question Free2Live, would encompass reading or scouring through a lot of personal journals that might touch on the subject and that probably wouldn't happen, given the difficulty of obtaining such records from family members.   

   


            
 
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The birth of a new Revelation!  Just like in the bible & book of mormon!!!  
Posted: 15 January 2016 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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The 'Kids of Gays are an abomination to the Lord' revelation was received by Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Thomas S. Monson!
And declared to a breathless, on the edge of its seat, world by Apostle Russel M. Nelson!
...after it was clarified in a mormon.org news posting by the LDS Church Public Relations department!
...after it was explained by Apostle D. Todd Christofferson in a prime time personal television interview!
...after it was exposed to the world by John Dehlin, an excommunicated former mormon!
...after it was leaked to him by an anonymous source in the Church Office Building!
...after it was published in an LDS handbook intended for those holding the office of bishop, and higher. Regular tithe paying members are denied access to this handbook!
...after it was reviewed and okayed by a committee of attorneys at the law firm of Kirton & McConkie!
...after it was written by an anonymous employee as a member of the handbook staff, working 8 am to 4:30 pm, Monday through Friday, with a daily opening prayer at 8:20 a.m.!
...Just like in the bible and book of mormon!!
 
 
 
 
(based on an internet meme seen on RfM) 
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Posted: 15 January 2016 09:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog:
The 'Kids of Gays are an abomination to the Lord' revelation was received by Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Thomas S. Monson!
And declared to a breathless, on the edge of its seat, world by Apostle Russel M. Nelson!
...after it was clarified in a mormon.org news posting by the LDS Church Public Relations department!
...after it was explained by Apostle D. Todd Christofferson in a prime time personal television interview!
...after it was exposed to the world by John Dehlin, an excommunicated former mormon!
...after it was leaked to him by an anonymous source in the Church Office Building!
...after it was published in an LDS handbook intended for those holding the office of bishop, and higher. Regular tithe paying members are denied access to this handbook!
...after it was reviewed and okayed by a committee of attorneys at the law firm of Kirton & McConkie!
...after it was written by an anonymous employee as a member of the handbook staff, working 8 am to 4:30 pm, Monday through Friday, with a daily opening prayer at 8:20 a.m.!
...Just like in the bible and book of mormon!!
 
 
 
 
(based on an internet meme seen on RfM) 
 They know they cannot fool all the members all of the time, but they figure they can fool enough of the members--who really, really want to believe to hang on.  With time, no one will believe it was not a solid, legit revelation.  If the FLDS can do almost anything and get away with it--so can they.  All they have to do is keep the members paying until their Real Estate business bring in the same amount as tithing.  I am thinking Karma has a surprise for them.   
 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 16 January 2016 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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It's the "Mormon Inquisition" pure and simple. One can hope there's some Martin Luther out there somewhere with his 95 thesis ready to tack to a door.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 16 January 2016 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Tessa:
It's the "Mormon Inquisition" pure and simple. One can hope there's some Martin Luther out there somewhere with his 95 thesis ready to tack to a door.
 
 I keep seeing articles on places like Huffington Post written by seemingly progressive Mormons, nevertheless mormons who still believe.  The articles usually list a few short-comings of the church but then tell why they still love  the church and are loyal to it. For probably hundreds of thousand--this has not been our experience.  I keep wondering when we are going to see more articles in the mainstream that are--yes--a modern day 95 thesis."   Maybe the articles should talk about how alike Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs are and list some of the ugly statements, revelations of Brigham Young and...the present day "profits" such as "Not all truth is useful."
 
It needs to tell some of our stories of how LDS, Inc defrauded us and took our life savings--and unlike the Bernie Madoff victims--we have no recourse.  If we find ourselves or our loved ones needing the money they took from us--for medical, dental, food--even life-saving measures--we are out of luck.  
 
The stories of how after all the morg took from us was almost more than we could bear, then our spouses, parents, children, family have turned on many of us.  The church has implanted the idea in their minds--that as apostates--we are under the control of satan.  We lost their respect and sometimes their love and our relationships with them. 
 
When will the real stories of what it can be like for PostMos be told on mainstream media?  This is not just about mistakes that were made by past church leaders--more importantly--the articles should be about what this cult is doing to innocent people today.
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 21 January 2016 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Next up, printings of the D&C/Pearl of Great Price, will contain the "new revelation" just after J.F. Smith's walk through the after-life. Won't be too long a wait at all.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 24 January 2016 06:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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EOD, the more I think about it the more I realize just how accurate you are. From the start of Mormonism the revelations have come in this post hoc way, hesitant and misstepped, eventually morphing into full blown revelations as they are told with expedient emphases that petrify policy into God's will. Perhaps this latest will ripen over time until it can finally be closed with "thus sayeth the Lord."
 
I finally get it.  


   


Posted: 28 January 2016 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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I am wondering why our LDS modern revelation is so sub-par compared to the bible?
 
Some fat, bald, old, guy announces a newly revealed policy with all the granduer of new IRS regulations.
 
Why not a burning bush?  How about good old-fashioned sea-parting, or maybe an ascension or two?  Maybe they could turn a good shrimp cocktail into 5,000 of them while that special seagull flies overhead. 
 
If they want us to keep buying this modern prophet stuff, they should bring on a younger, racially ambiguous dude, with hair, biceps, and sceptor, standing on a hill in a thunder storm.   He could reveal the devine truth in two or three languages like a wrap lyric, then release it on Facebook and Twitter.
 
Since they keep trying to update their church, why not go for it!  It would be no less believable than the original. Maybe this time they can get the story straight the first time.
 
 


   


Posted: 28 January 2016 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Be careful...folks that work with "Holograms" may just conjure up your wish...
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 28 January 2016 10:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Tessa:
Be careful...folks that work with "Holograms" may just conjure up your wish...
 
 lol
 
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


            
 
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Help with 12 minute video about dna. Need a rebuttal
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Mickelsen's "Dirty Linen"
by antipsicótica
Not Angry, A little confused, and a lot scared
by Winyan
Porn, Good or Bad?
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Ghawd is anti-immigration?
by LostInParadise
The published journals of a gay apostate Mormon missionary
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Morg and Utah politics
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Conspiracy Theories - Why Mormons Love Them So?
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G.A. accused of sexual assault (link)
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Are you in a codependent relationship?
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“Satan works hard to destroy eternal marriages”  
Posted: 25 January 2016 05:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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I used to hear this quoted often in R.S. lessons.   Now as a grandma watching my TBM kids struggling with heavy church responsibilities, large families and giving 10% to the kingdom it occurs to me that "Satan" and the church are one in the same.  

   


Posted: 25 January 2016 05:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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SuziQ:
I used to hear this quoted often in R.S. lessons.   Now as a grandma watching my TBM kids struggling with heavy church responsibilities, large families and giving 10% to the kingdom it occurs to me that "Satan" and the church are one in the same. 
 
Of course the big problem is getting the believers to see it this way! It doesn't matter what crap the church comes out with, the believers will eat it up and will believe it's their own fault when it tastes like crap to them.
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 25 January 2016 05:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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On my DW side of the family it was announced recently that one of her siblings and spouse are divorcing. The irony---they would be considered the most tbm of the family. Like any divorce it is messy, but the main issues at hand point to an 19th century Mormon orthodox mentality at the root of the marital problems.
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 25 January 2016 08:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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IMVHO, I believe that at the root/heart of the problem is "religious pressure". Sunpeeps are taught from there until adulthood  --  missions, marriage, children and CK. There's pressure to fulfill a mission  --  bad news for those who choose not to go on a mission or be sent home early(NOT WORTHY).  Pressure to be eligble for a "golden ticket" to the "holy house of creepy hug and handshakes"  -- bad news for those who don't get married(must be homosexual  --  I believe some people should never ever marry  --  bad news for them and everyone else).  Pressure to "mutiply and replenish the earth"(I also believe that some couples should never ever reproduce  --  bad new for their kiddos)  --  when I was at BYU(1969-72), married student housing was referred to as the rabbit hutches and couples were STRONGLY suggested to not use any form of contraception in their relationship.  And the pressure to follow the TBM "laundry list" so that you will be worthy to go to the CK.
Also IMVHO, I believe that morgbots(every Sunday they take the sacrament  --  it is like getting their religious fix) and it continues to reinforce their "morgbot comas"(reminds me of the cave scene in the movie Cowboys and Aliens where the townspeople are in a trance looking at the blue light and the only way to save them is to destroy the blue light  --  the morg "laundry list" helps in reinforcing the morgbot comas as does the semi annual stake and general conferences where the morg penishood holders spew their HORSESHIT).
Fortunately, there is us(we lucky few) who for some reason see the the light  --  the truth that the morg is built upon the foundation of a stinking pile of HORSESHIT and that truth has set us free  --  and that is PRICELESS.


   


Posted: 26 January 2016 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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It strikes me thatthis sentiment is likely about atte,pting to justify the rate of failure of temple marriages.
When you consider the forces Mormonism puts in place that have the effect of bolstering temple marriages, then they are massive. So that those marriages fail at such a high rate suggests there are powerful dissembling forces at play also.
Interpreting those failures in Magical Thinking terms is typically Mormon.
Looking for a more rational rational basis is very unMormon.
Such forces might include:
 
 
Marriage at an immature age - a known high risk factor.
Confusing lust and love.
Distorted and unhealthy thinking about sexuality - sex goes from being very negatively perceived to magically OK, with one ceremony.
Sexual ignorance runs at extremely high levels.
High time pressures are placed on the family.
High levels of shame that underpin Mormonism act to sabotage true intimacy in marriage.
High perfectionism culture conspire against important broader emotional support mechanisms.
Formulaic Mormon solutions to marriage challenges are not anchored in what science reveals as best practice.
Mormonism actively promotes poor personal boundaries, which acts to sabotage marriage.
Financial stress is a major risk factor, and Mormonism feeds that in several ways: women encouraged to work in the home, heavy church financial imposts. 
 

OK, that's my starting list. Of course, no Mormon leader would want to concede any of these forces might make a contribution.
But in refusing to acknowledge 'real' forces, and to focus on Stan, they guarantee that no sustantive solutions will be generated.
 
Any additions??
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Posted: 26 January 2016 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Daryl,
 
I'm not sure how to best put this into just a few words, but it definitely plays into your lust vs. love and sexual ignorance points...
 
The whole concept of withholding of sex/masturbation leads to very randy young people. I know many a young mormon who married primarily for sex. (I may or may not be included among these people ). 
 
When the magic wears off and the realities of life set in, there isn't much left, especially if you marry a sweet young thing, heed the prophet's call to start breeding forthwith, and suddenly you end up in a hormonal nightmare for which neither of you were prepared. Some of the best counsel my TBM father ever gave me was to wait at least a year after marriage before trying to have kids.
 
But yeah, I married for sex. She said yes, and I could think of little else until the deed had been done.
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Posted: 28 January 2016 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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SuziQ:
I used to hear this quoted often in R.S. lessons.   Now as a grandma watching my TBM kids struggling with heavy church responsibilities, large families and giving 10% to the kingdom it occurs to me that "Satan" and the church are one in the same. 
 
 I know what you mean. The whole temple ceremony is pretty satanic. You've got stan on a big  screen all the way thru telling you what to do, threatening you if you aren't obedient. The death oaths and symbols they used to make people do. The secrets. The masonic stuff. None of that came from Christ.


   


Posted: 28 January 2016 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Jesus may have been a "Stone Mason" (not a carpenter) and since he lived in Egypt, had some of the rituals, that he gave his followers.
 
So he may have done the same "resurrection" thing, that Free Masons do *putting bodies in a coffin/crypt, then lifting them out again* (think of Lazarus, and then himself.)
 
All that stuff may have been some form of Initiation ceremony among the Nazarenes/Essenes..and other Gnostic groups.
 
Just a thought. 
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 ‹‹ Another great quote regarding mormonism... True, or not?        "Grandpa, why didn’t you go to church?" asks my 6 year old granddaughter. ››  
 
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“Grandpa, why didn’t you go to church?”  asks my 6 year old granddaughter.  
Posted: 25 January 2016 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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So, my son, DIL + grandkiddies were here for dinner last night.  Some how, I wasn't really following the conversation because it was really a bunch of banter.  My grandaughter asked my wife if she had gone to church, to which she replied yes.  Then, she asked me if I had gone to church(this part of the clan lives in American Fork and my TBMDW has gone to their church several times without me since my escape from the morg and the kiddos always ask about me  --  sweet kiddos) and of course I said no.  Now, I thought that was end of the discussion(I forgot that with some kiddos that is never the end of the discussion) when she asked, "Why didn't you go to church, grandpa?".  The first thing that came out of my mouth was, "Do you really want to go there?".  That made my TBMDIL chuckle and my TBMS asked what had just happened   --  to which he chuckled too(you know it is amazing how kiddos don't mess around and get right to the heart of things).  In any case, before I could say anything my TBMDIL said that Grandpa doesn't believe anymore and since he is a big person he gets to make that decision.  Later on while we were in the kitchen she said that she hoped I didn't mind if she had said something and that it was OK for me to explain to their kiddos why I no longer go to church.  Although she is a dedicated TBM, she still has a good head on her shoulders which is one of the things that I love about
her(I had afib and when I got shocked to put my heart back on track  --  she gave me the shock  --  now that's trust in a TBMDIL!).  Even though everyone in my family(except an older daughter who is no longer a member and a son who is semi-active) are dedicated TBMs, they have allowed me and respected my decision to no longer be a member of the morg.  I attended the baptism of a grandson and will attend those of our remaining grand kiddos as well as other significant events  --  it is my way of "watching their backs".  I don't say it but if the occasion appears that they begin to question the morg and I'm still here, I want them to know that I'll be there if and when they need me.


   


Posted: 25 January 2016 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Hmmm... You just brought out the inner "evil twin" in me. Should I ever be asked to "witness" a baptism, I'll suggest that the child's mother do the deed, then watch the bishop/ward missionary/whomever squirm as they explain why women can't do it. I mean really, why should the penishood be required for a signature?
 
But I digress. Your TBMDIL sounds like a keeper! +1 for you!
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Posted: 25 January 2016 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Probably best that you didn't tell your granddaughter that the Morg was built on a stinking pile of HORSESHIT. The time will come, and that will be... PRICELESS. 
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Posted: 25 January 2016 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Just wondering has anyone put together a letter explaining this topic to family... that are not old enough to understand so that it can be given to them when they are old enough to understand? Just in case I cash in my chips and leave the game.
Just wondering I was thinking about doing something like that just wanted to see what other had done.


   


Posted: 25 January 2016 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Just wondering has anyone put together a letter explaining this topic to family... that are not old enough to understand so that it can be given to them when they are old enough to understand? Just in case I cash in my chips and leave the game.
Just wondering I was thinking about doing something like that just wanted to see what other had done.


   


Posted: 25 January 2016 08:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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She sounds awesome. Take advantage! I wish I'd had gentle explanations of possible discrepancies between correlated materials and actual truth when I was a kid/teen. I'd have saved myself a lot of life altering decisions (early marriage, career sacrifice, a shit-ton of tithing, etc) and been able to go a completely different direction. 

   


Posted: 26 January 2016 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise:
Probably best that you didn't tell your granddaughter that the Morg was built on a stinking pile of HORSESHIT. The time will come, and that will be... PRICELESS. 
 It would have blown her tiny mind and her mother would have probably had a conniption fit.  In any case, "the morg is built upon a stinking pile of HORSESHIT" is really my "evil twin" speaking.  I allow him to vent/rage on this site but usually keep him "locked up" under normal circumstances.  He has been pretty much muzzled my whole life but there have been times when he was almost in the face of some morgotbot %$&hole penishood holder. Yes, I am hopeful that one day the rest of my TBM family will awaken from their morgbot comas and yes that will be  ...  PRICELESS!
 


   


Posted: 26 January 2016 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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"Grandpa, why don't you go to church?"
 
"I don't believe in it."
 
"Mommy says it's the true church!"
 
"I don't believe it is. It's okay for you and Mommy to believe in it for now, but I would be dishonest if I did something I didn't believe in. You would want me to be honest, right?" 
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Posted: 26 January 2016 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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I have to admit:  I got a pretty good chuckle out of imagining you with your granddaughter on your lap trying to answer her question without saying "HORSESHIT".  
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Posted: 27 January 2016 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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maynardg:
So, my son, DIL + grandkiddies were here for dinner last night.  Some how, I wasn't really following the conversation because it was really a bunch of banter.  My grandaughter asked my wife if she had gone to church, to which she replied yes.  Then, she asked me if I had gone to church(this part of the clan lives in American Fork and my TBMDW has gone to their church several times without me since my escape from the morg and the kiddos always ask about me  --  sweet kiddos) and of course I said no.  Now, I thought that was end of the discussion(I forgot that with some kiddos that is never the end of the discussion) when she asked, "Why didn't you go to church, grandpa?".  The first thing that came out of my mouth was, "Do you really want to go there?".  That made my TBMDIL chuckle and my TBMS asked what had just happened   --  to which he chuckled too(you know it is amazing how kiddos don't mess around and get right to the heart of things).  In any case, before I could say anything my TBMDIL said that Grandpa doesn't believe anymore and since he is a big person he gets to make that decision.  Later on while we were in the kitchen she said that she hoped I didn't mind if she had said something and that it was OK for me to explain to their kiddos why I no longer go to church.  Although she is a dedicated TBM, she still has a good head on her shoulders which is one of the things that I love about
her(I had afib and when I got shocked to put my heart back on track  --  she gave me the shock  --  now that's trust in a TBMDIL!).  Even though everyone in my family(except an older daughter who is no longer a member and a son who is semi-active) are dedicated TBMs, they have allowed me and respected my decision to no longer be a member of the morg.  I attended the baptism of a grandson and will attend those of our remaining grand kiddos as well as other significant events  --  it is my way of "watching their backs".  I don't say it but if the occasion appears that they begin to question the morg and I'm still here, I want them to know that I'll be there if and when they need me.
What a brilliant answer Maynardg!  I can see her asking herself  for a lot of years if she really wants to be there.  The conversation with herself has most probably begun--due to your "inspired"   answer.  
 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 29 January 2016 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Thanks everyone.  I knew at some point in time someone would ask that question.  I should have realized that it would be one of my grandkids(I am sure when it comes time for their baptisms, they'll be asking me if I am going to attend and my answer, of course, will be   --  yes  --  I don't love the morg but I do love them and that's all that counts).  It was heartwarming for me when my TBMDIL jumped in to answer that question and then tell me it was OK for me to explain to my grandkiddos why I don't attend the morg anymore(I am sure that we will revisit that question many times as they get older and wiser). 

   


            
 
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LDS Tabernacle Gone Mormon Temple  
Posted: 24 December 2015 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_City_Center_Temple
No more community Christmas events.   Nevermind there's three (Pason, Provo & Tabernacle) LDS temples close to one another.  This brand-new campus, building and underground parking space might eventually see less activity than maybe expected.
 
As far as the local community is concerned the thing might have just as well been bulldozed into a hole in the ground. 

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865643978/5-years-after-fire-new-LDS-temple-getting-ready-to-welcome-the-public.html
 
 
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Posted: 25 December 2015 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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Such a loss to the community. I attended many events at the tabernacle from graduations to Messiah Sing-ins, and many many concerts. It wasn't perfect but it was a community gathering place. Now it has been replaced with a cold, sanatized 'members only' clubhouse that members will worship.
Many TBMs I know also moaned when they heard it was going to be a temple, they saw value in community and access to historical buildings. 
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Posted: 03 January 2016 11:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Over a million visitors may possibly visit the website, shutting it down and causing other problems.
  http://m.heraldextra.com/news/local/lds/website-crash-expected-in-rush-for-temple-open-house-tickets/article_90ca21c5-90e3-51ba-8458-14abdc4e06ae.html
 
 
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Posted: 05 January 2016 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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The millions who visit for the last time, may just be going to say a fond goodbye for all the years of service that Tabernacle provided. Rest in Peace....Provo Tab. Many loved you.
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Posted: 06 January 2016 09:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
jellybean
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I was sad when I heard it was becoming a temple because it had been such a great community building. I was happy it wouldn't be gone for good, but it would have been nice if they had just taken it back to a tabernacle. Oh well.
 
I've been watching with a lot of laughs as people complain about not being able to get tickets to the open house! The horror! All the good time frames are gone! How can we be expected to go in the morning? How can you make us pull our kids out of school for this?! Why aren't there more tickets... 
 
Equally funny are the people who are telling the compainers to calm down. LOL.


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 11:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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You can tell it's a Mormon temple now (#150) because it has the Star Wars C3-PO lookalike character atop it. 
 
http://www.timesunion.com/news/us/article/Mormon-Church-s-150th-temple-to-open-soon-in-Provo-6750216.php
 
http://kutv.com/news/local/gallery-lds-church-releases-photos-of-provo-temple-as-public-tours-begin
 
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865645251/LDS-Church-leaders-host-media-tour-of-new-Provo-City-Center-Temple.html?pg=all
 
 
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How Utah’s Gay Mayor Threatens LDS Temple Cashflow Worldwide  
Posted: 12 January 2016 12:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/repent-the-gay-away-wife-of-mormon-leader-tells-gays-to-pray-for-sexual-harmony-with-god/
 
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/lesbian-mayor-salt-lake-city-mormon-church-lgbt-rights_56951bfde4b086bc1cd531ae
 
The exclusive Mormon temple goers support only traditional families and require heavy tithe payments from LDS membership to help keep gay folk out of Mormon polygamy heaven.
 
 
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Posted: 12 January 2016 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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I thought it wasn't a sin to be gay, only to commit gay acts. This speech seems to contradict that idea.
 
And then there's this choice quote: “I pray that this year that you will have some moments of anguishing desperation that will propel you further along the path to becoming the man or woman you were born to be.”
 
My life hasn't been hard enough. I appreciate the prayers on my behalf that I might suffer even more anguish.
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Posted: 12 January 2016 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Okay, I listened to the talk.  (Damn you, JM, for making me listen to that horrible LDS cadence!  )
 
My own opinion is that the entire story is pretty misleading.  The theme of the talk was something like "Desperation is an Opportunity To Get Right With God."  Something like that.  The only sentence that arguably dealth with homosexuality was this one:
 

“Perhaps we need the gift to have our sexual feelings be in harmony with eternal laws.”
 
It was in a laundry list of hypothetical one could need in a time of desperation.  The other quotes were scattered around the text of the speech.  Many of them preceded the sentence that I quoted above by several minutes (the whole speech is 10 minutes).
 
Characterizing this as a "pray the gay away" sermon is just wrong. 
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Russell Ballard says Gay pronouncement is “official revelation” of Thomas Monson.  
Posted: 11 January 2016 04:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Just in case there was any doubt of the Mormon Church's discrimination edict.
It's "from god."   Oh brother.
 

http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-apostle-policy-on-same-sex-couples-revelation-from-god 
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Posted: 11 January 2016 04:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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This announcement made me really angry  !  Does he think that people are unable to see that Monson has dementia?  This whole thing gets more bizare by the minute. 

   


Posted: 11 January 2016 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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This is just more evidence that God doesn't have anything to do with mormonism. 

   


Posted: 11 January 2016 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I'm old and forget things but when this announcement was made to every tom,dickless and harriet was it announced as a revelation from the only true a living profit and accepted by the feckless 12? 

   


Posted: 11 January 2016 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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limes
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Russell M. Nelson gave a talk last night at a CES fireside to young adults, and that's where he said the policy change was the result of a revelation.  

   


Posted: 11 January 2016 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Back dating just like joseph "pinocchio" smithused to do to justify his male whoring ways and every other thing he needed to deceive people. 

   


Posted: 11 January 2016 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Now I know the church is "Lucifarian"....no god would make a human gay, and then decide to punish them for his doing so?!!! Idiot.
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Posted: 11 January 2016 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Its always the same thing with all the GA's.  They proclaim that the prophet was inspired by revelation or even that the prophet is a prophet and "they know it".  I've never actually heard the prophet say he is the prophet.  And, except for the curse of cain doctrin being done away with, I"ve never heard the prophet really say he had a revelation.  
 
Down the road this helps them change things.  Just because someone else said it was prophecy doesn't mean it was.  You haven't heard Thomas Monson saying that publically.
 


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Feeling better and better about my resignation.
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Posted: 12 January 2016 05:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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"Hearsay" - One of the foundational tenants of Mormonism.
 
Thinking about it---this is horrible:
 
Point A - An elderly man (TSM) is showing signs of dementia
Point B - Another man publically claims that TSM received this revelation, but it cannot be verified
Point C - This is a very controversial topic, even in Mormonism 
Point D - With or without dementia TSM days are numbered
Point E - In Mormonism only the current prophet is relevant
 
Points A-E sets the Church up to be able to manuver at the expense of TSM.
 
TSM - Beware!!! That bus is barrowing down that road, and 14 men are standing behind you, willing to give you a little push. 
 
 
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Posted: 12 January 2016 09:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Direct revelation? Really?  When God gave direct revelations to Joseph Smith, Jr., it was always in grammatically sloppy King James English. Funny in how 180 years later God has picked up the language of 21st century attorneys.
 
That God: so changeable for someone so invariant!


   


Posted: 12 January 2016 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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NickB:
Feeling better and better about my resignation.
 
 My resignation is what made me feel better and better.
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Posted: 13 January 2016 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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victim
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Tessa:
Just in case there was any doubt of the Mormon Church's discrimination edict.
It's "from god."   Oh brother.
 

http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-apostle-policy-on-same-sex-couples-revelation-from-god 
 
Hmmm! Now I tell you what I know; when the mark was put upon Cain, Abels children was in all probability young; the Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the preisthood nor his seed, until the last of the posterity of Able had received the preisthood, until the redemtion of the earth. Profit brigham young, Feb 5, 1852 - Please excuse profit brigham's spelling/ grammar!
 
As we know, this little number ended ahead of schedule as do so many policies/doctrines of the so-called church! It's quite obvious that the self-proclaimed profits of jo missed the redemption of the earth finale as noted by profit brigham! As a prelude to the unceremonious demise of his obvious bigotry/racist doctrine dear brigham was thrown under the bus by sitting mormon profit tommy monson and the boys - you know, he spoke as a man type of nonsense! The historical record reveals a man made cult run by men who speak as men - jeeze, it can't be any clearer! Now, once again, their insatiable bigotry/homophobia rears its ugly head in the 21st century of our world as the profits of jo smith jr. begin a revolting, new program of discrimination designed to hurt the most vulnerable among us in the name of their vindictive God who they frequently hide behind - yup, innocent little children of LGBT parents are officially singled out for abuse by God's one true church on earth?! I ask, how low will the mormons go? This initial, hideous policy that has now evolved into a full blown revelation in very short order is destined to die the same death as the priesthood ban against blacks! So much for false mormon profits/their creepy minions! These contemporary, charlatan clowns of jo smith's mormonism deserve all the criticism outraged human beings can direct their way! victim 


   


Posted: 13 January 2016 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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tab
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But Wendy Nelson said on January 10th ...
"Wendy Nelson, the wife of a top Mormon official, asserted recently that LGBT people should “repent” to have their “sexual feelings be in harmony” with God’s law.“ Quote: "I pray that this year that you will have some moments of anguishing desperation that will propel you further along the path to becoming the man or woman you were born to be.”
Why can't homosexuals simply pray it all away? She says it right there, directly from the horses mouth. /sarcasm
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/repent-the-gay-away-wife-of-mormon-leader-tells-gays-to-pray-for-sexual-harmony-with-god/
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Posted: 13 January 2016 06:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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I can't take anything they say seriously. In 1949 a First Presidency official statement said that Blacks being deprived of the priesthood was because of their premortal conduct. Now the LDS essay says it was theories and not doctrine. Nelson's claim is meaningless unless it is canonized in the Doctrine and Covenants but even then, in a few years it can be said to be just theories and not doctrine. There is no reason to believe anything that comes from the mouths of LDS apostles and prophets, or their wives. Nelson's wife is just as unreliable. Why should she be believed that Gays can have sexual feelings in harmony with eternal laws? A priesthood holding apostle once said that Indian children were turning white through righteousness. Why should she be believed now? Mormon leaders make impossible claims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAOjlWdxwxg 

   


Posted: 14 January 2016 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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I wish Jesus were real...he might come back and disown these frauds.
 
But hey....it's not gonna happen, just like their "revelations" all turned sour.
 
Nothing Joe Smith ever prophesied came true, nor Brigham (other than he's reproduction about the area which has made the SL valley near unlivable and undrivable.)
 
The Myth deteriorates every time one of them opens their mouth...in public.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


            
 
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What was it like, going through the temple for your endowments?  
Posted: 10 January 2016 06:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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I drove up to St. George with my bishop and his lovely wife.  No prep classes, nothing.
 
What I got out of it was the feeling that it was a stupid attempt to form a boys' club.  The idea of wasting time doing silly shit and wearing dumb ass clothes was anathema.  I only went through two more times, a week later at the SLC mission home and then when I got married.
 
I ranked it as pure insanity that someone could get up in F&TM to declare that he or she loved the temple and learned something new everytime he/she went.
 
And this was BEFORE I found out that everyone -EVERYONE- got the same secret name on any given day.  There is a site online where if you the have the date a person first went to the temple for his/her endowments, you can see what their secret name is.  What does that tell you about ghawd running this church? 
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Posted: 11 January 2016 12:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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It was strange, very strange. Family was around, all smiley and congratulatory, while my brain was in overload of new stuff. I was heading out to learn english on a foreign mission to the midwest of the usa. My heart and soul was dedicated with resolve to make a difference and help people. Distinctly, I recall thinking - why am I having to get naked when all my life the teachings have been to stay dressed and not be sexual in word thought or deed.?! My life review at that first temple endowment included me almost saying outloud , we are a cult! The throat slashing and belly slashing motions along with miriads of signs tokens and ever present busy bodies offering unneeded help is hard to forget. Out of Duty and Obedience I was able to ignore and switch off the crazy hours long live session as wrong. Afterall, I had a mission to Do and I was doing what was right and letting the consequence follow. My life was the consequence. It was taken out of controlled manipulated one-sided oath and covenant. Rather than do so I would have to give up my life. The joke was on me as it turns out I did give up my life. It must be time to divulge. Subsequent visits left unanswered questions to marinate for  few decades. One being: Why are there Locks on the lockers? That new name was too easy to remember. After a dozen years I had to ask for help recalling that new name. A temple president handed me a list of three names to choose from. I said this one seems familiar. Whew! I was correct as the temple white suit dude didn't have to divulge that secret.  
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Posted: 11 January 2016 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
SuziQ
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I came away wondering where this weird ceremony came from.  It wasn't found in the scriptures. You couldn't ask anyone because it was too sacred to talk about, and I didn't want to look stupid or unworthy.   I looked through the little temple prep book I had been given and even it didn't have an answer.  It said something about it was believed that JS received it as a direct revelation, but nothing had been written down, too sacred apparently.    (I circled that part in red and wrote the real story in the margins before donating that book to DI after being liberated).
 
And lo and behold my answer came years later as I watched a Youtube video about the Mason's.  Ah ha!  Wish I had known that earlier. 
 
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 06:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Hank
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I went through the prep class and was looking forward to it. First cog dis moment was lock on the lockers. Then the semi-transparent robe with nothing else on an the old guy sticking his arm under the robe, but I trusted, I believed. First time I went through was with my fiance who had been endowed many years earlier, so I was focused on our future together more than the movie. I though she looked rather hot with the veil on...hey, it had been a while since my divorce! That was in Toronto.
 
I've been to a few others, including the SLC temple which does the play live. I was constantly distracted by Adam being played by this short old guy (that looked like the old guy from the old Bennie Hill shows) that could barely walk or speak. But, the murals were indeed beautiful.
 
As cog dis built (in general about the church), I started to dislike going there. Once I went with a Bishop who had once answered a question with "That can only be discussed in the temple." I reminded him about the question. I don't remember it or his answer, but his answer was deflecting. He didn't have an answer and basically tried to cover it up with "sacredness" bullshit.
 
The last 3 or 4 times I went, I left pissed off. My wife and I were going through hell at home with sick kids, broke financially, never had date night and the 1 or 2 times a year we could get out, we went to temple instead of something intertesting. What a f*cking waste of time!
 
 


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 07:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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My first time did not feel spiritual (nor most subsequent times), but of course I assumed that was my fault. All the big peaceful smiles and "isn't it wonderful" attitudes in the CR were awkward because I wasn't really feeling it. When I've gone through with others for their first time, I've done my best not to impose that weirdness on them.
 
My first time in the CR, my parents asked if I had any questions, since it's safe to talk about it there. I asked what the clothes meant. They had no idea. That's when I realized that I wouldn't get any answers and that the temple was a mystery to even long-time faithfuls. That sense of mystery, and the idea that nobody around me understood the ceremonies, overshadowed every subsequent trip.
 
You have to turn to the Freemasons if you want to understand our ceremonies. Too bad that makes you a heretic in the eyes of many mormons.
 
I'll tell you about my LAST time too. This was last month. When I told my bishop I suddenly disbelieved a lot of things, he told me and my wife to go to the temple. I was opposed to performing any ordinances, because it would feel hypocritical in my state of mind. So I dressed and tried to go to the CR to pray and meditate, and DW was going to meet me there. I was completely floored when a pair of smarmy? young men turned me away, saying that I couldn't go there without performing an ordinance first. Here I was, an endowed TR holder, wanting for the first time in my life to find answers in the holiest part of the temple (that we can enter), and I was denied. It crushed me.
 
Sometimes when we pray, the answers do come fast. I got mine at the bottom of the stairs outside the dressing room. It was so easy to turn in my recommend the next day.
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Posted: 11 January 2016 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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Hank:
 never had date night and the 1 or 2 times a year we could get out, we went to temple instead of something intertesting. What a f*cking waste of time!
 
 
 
 THIS! I understand completely.
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Posted: 11 January 2016 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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My first and only time a went to the temple before my mission was during my stay at the Missionary Home in SLC.  We went en masse and after they took us up to the top floor of the temple were a GA answered questions  --  some he answered an others he deflected like it was perhaps above our pay grade.  I didn't understand any of it  --  I was confused and terrified by the throat and abdominal slitting(I was surprised that later on those aspects as well as the five points of fellowship were taken out  --  my question was why were they in there to begin with and when did the revelation come to take them out).  Then I went on my mission to France(1966-69).  I heard that at one time the missionaries took a mission temple trip but was it halted because missionaries used it as a vacation time(too bad I didn't learn that I/my parents paid the church for 2 1/2 years to be emtionally abused until after).  I came home and went a couple of times before I got married(like a good TBM should  --  it was my DW first time  --  I've never asked her how she felt about it and she is still, maybe more, entrenched TBM).  I went to the temple for years after that because it was expected of good TBMs but never, NOT EVER, got anything out of going and certainly not anything like what I would hear in F&T meetings  --  didn't we both just do the same thing.  I guess the temple was the first thing to go(I still paid my tithing  --  but never had the desire to go to the temple ever again).  I didn't go to the temple with the three of my kids who went on missions nor did I go to there when my kids got married(I knew what it was like  --  big whoopty doo  --  I was more interested in the party and the honeymoon and enjoying the sex that was taboo up until this point).  I lucked out because I had Branch Presidents who left me alone.  I held callings for years that are usually only given to rabid TBMs with a current TR.  I had to come to Utah, to have Bishops(all good guys) who would have me come in for a meetngreet  --  we noticed that you don't have a current TR(still given callings that normally require a current TR)  --  is there anything we can do to help you rectify the situation  --  no and I don't want one(they were a little perplexed by that remark).  And the rest is as they say  --  history.  The summer of 2014 was my independence day from the morg(because I learned for myself after 57 years that the morg was built upon a stinking pile of HORSESHIT).  And that experience has been  --  PRICELESS!!! 

   


Posted: 11 January 2016 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
Hank
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LostInParadise: I was completely floored when a pair of smarmy? young men turned me away, saying that I couldn't go there without performing an ordinance first. Here I was, an endowed TR holder, wanting for the first time in my life to find answers in the holiest part of the temple (that we can enter), and I was denied. It crushed me.
 
 
 The CR is like the hero riding off into the sunset. You learn your secret code names and passwords in life, do everything you're supposed to, die, go through the veil using your secret username and password and afterwards, go into celestial glory (CR). You can't start out in the CR....silly.
 
I always got a kick out of all the guards in the CR and throughout the temple. I felt like how could I truly pour my heart out to God in the holiest living room around, when I have strangers watching me making sure I don't go out the wrong door, or maybe steal a...what? Chandelier? Couch? Maybe they were there to prevent vandalism? I dunno, but I don't think God's living room needs security guards. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
 
I never "felt the spirit" at the temple either. Never. I "felt the spirit" in the solitude of woods/nature, at home, sometimes at church meetings, but never in any temple.


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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The first time I went was right before leaving on a mission. I remember walking up the hill to the Manti temple at about 5am. The moon was shining, the temple lights made everything look beautiful and surreal. I was thinking, "Here I am, Lord." It was supposed to be the holiest place on earth, and I had worked hard to be ready for it.
 
They rush you thru everything, so you really don't have time to think about it too much. But the naked touching, bloody death oaths, weird signs and symbols, and intimate embrace at the veil left me feeling like I'd just been slimed.
 
Walking back down the hill afterwards, I was thinking, "Is that it? Is that the big magical spiritual experience it's supposed to be?"
 
I wish I had followed the instinct that day that told me it didn't come from Christ. But instead I talked myself into trusting the prophets. After all, they wouldn't lead us astray. Right?
 
Years later, sitting in the temple one day listening to Satan threaten me once again if I wasnt obedient to mormonism, a light went on. I woke up. The next day I went to my last sacrament meeting. The talk was on how single people can't get into the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. I walked out in the middle of it, and never went back.


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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Hank:
LostInParadise: I was completely floored when a pair of smarmy? young men turned me away, saying that I couldn't go there without performing an ordinance first. Here I was, an endowed TR holder, wanting for the first time in my life to find answers in the holiest part of the temple (that we can enter), and I was denied. It crushed me.
 
 
 The CR is like the hero riding off into the sunset. You learn your secret code names and passwords in life, do everything you're supposed to, die, go through the veil using your secret username and password and afterwards, go into celestial glory (CR). You can't start out in the CR....silly.
 
I always got a kick out of all the guards in the CR and throughout the temple. I felt like how could I truly pour my heart out to God in the holiest living room around, when I have strangers watching me making sure I don't go out the wrong door, or maybe steal a...what? Chandelier? Couch? Maybe they were there to prevent vandalism? I dunno, but I don't think God's living room needs security guards. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
 
I never "felt the spirit" at the temple either. Never. I "felt the spirit" in the solitude of woods/nature, at home, sometimes at church meetings, but never in any temple.
 
They'd just as well let you steal the couches, they don't really want anyone to stay long enough to sit on one. I always thought the CR was supposed to be a special place where you could spend a little time praying and getting closer to God.
 
In the Manti temple, you go through the CR to get to the sealing rooms, and it's not really an ordinance room, per se, as the ordinance ends at the veil. More importantly, I'd already received MY endowment and supposedly earned MY right to be there. So I'm still just blown away that it's restricted access to the endowed.
 
Where are you supposed to get any revelation? The dressing room? (That's rhetorical, since I now realize that there's nowhere in the temple that's any better than anywhere else for getting revelation.)
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Posted: 11 January 2016 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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For me it was not at all what I expected.
I was 18 my sister was getting married that day in the Dallas temple, fairly new at that point just a few years old. I had worked and donated money for its construction as a teenager mowing lawns for 1 week and putting 100% of the money I earned towards the effort even the spare change found while sweeping up the curbs an additional to other money donated earlier. So I felt very emotionally invented in that building as well as going  through with my older sister on her wedding day and my brother in law who was an RM and former AP. He had that dynamic personality and I really look up to him and his groomsmen who were also Mormon Cool!  Just great people. I didn’t even give a second thought to my mother a faithful convert of 15 years not allowed to enter because my father a non-Mormon was not willing to join(remember ladies your exaltation  is tied to your man). My father never trashed the church even though he could have. My brother in laws family nonmembers also not allowed in. Those are the rules and that was it. An 18 year old can see things so clearly.
I was excited / curious about the mysteries I would be learning in the temple that day. We started out in a room before the ceremony. In this room they asked if we had any questions and since I had seen nothing but woodwork to that point I had none.  We then went through the process of getting garments I had been given a heads up about the anointing naked things so I was not shocked just weirded out a little but still excited to be learning more about God and this great mystery that was the temple so sacred that it could not be spoken of outside of those sacred walls. 
My impression of the sash hat apron was that it was cumbersome cheaply made and lacking in the richness or substance I expected. I guess I was expecting intelligently designed garments.  The movie commenced and all was going well until we hit the first sign token and penalty!!! What was this???? A fraternity initiation? I though oaths like that are part of the mafia???
I was stunned to say the least, I wanted to object I wanted to run, for a split second I was trying to determine how I could run out of this place without being caught. I figured I could walk right through the little old temple workers without breaking a sweat and I considered it!  This place was an affront to my integrity.  If it was not my sister wedding and I was not among so many people I had such great respect and admiration for that might have been the end for me. It’s too bad it didn’t go by myself the first time. Needless to say I stayed and saw my sister married but that was a shattering moment.  Even that would have been acceptable expect there was no further light and knowledge to be gained at the temple. There was nothing no spirit no nothing just a b grade movie. I really wanted to ask my questions now! I was profoundly disappointed but still loyal to the cause. I just could not imagine all these great people could be wrong. I tried in vain to for many years to believe but the harder I tried the more it was clear I had been wrong all these good people were also wrong and the whole thing was made up. This process took years much pain and guilt.  My belief in truth honesty and integrity lead me out of the church even without the internet.  My wife asking me questions about my Mormon past and family started the process of me looking online and POW I have proof I had been right all along. The process helped me to heal and removed all the of voodoo factor left in religion for me. But that’s another story.


   


Posted: 11 January 2016 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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What was it like?
Creepy.
Cryptic.
Crippling.
Destructive.
Defeating.
Disturbing. 
I absolutely hated the temple and felt utterly broken that my parents knew me and knew the ceremony and didn't warn me at all. No one was on my side. No one else saw the LDS church from my perspective. The church teachings warned against secret combinations, and yet here I was promising to slit my own throat should I reveal that throat slitting was involved in memorizing the secret signs and words that comprised the "endowment." What was endowed? Shackles? Shame? Unadulterated bullshit? (Or as MaynardG might call it: horseshit.)
 
The entire ceremony looked totally eff'd up to me, but I looked around and saw only serenely smiling believers. So I went ahead and did that damned "mission" of crying repentance and glad tidings unto my Lamanite brothers and sisters in Central America.
 
The temple let me know that I could be completely conquered with mere social pressure.
 
I had lost.


   


Posted: 12 January 2016 05:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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My first thought was: "This is not the same Church I was raised".
 
I remember hearing the statement about, if anyone does not want to proceed, then arise. In that moment time slowed down---I wanted to leave, but dad was sitting next to me; eldest brother next to him. Mom segragated accross the room with SIL. Family and friends filled the room, all believing this event was a pinicale requirement to get into heaven.
 
I never enjoyed going to the temple---it was just off. 
 
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 12 January 2016 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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It really blew my mind when I realized that the ceremony in the house of creepy hugs and handshakes was really a masonic ritual that was tweeked by none other than joseph "pinocchio" smith.  I also learned that the ceremony was to teach the members(men first, of course  --  another example of the misogynistic nature of the morg  --  although men need the mel penishood to be able to go the temple and women who are of age don't need because of course, they can't have it)to keep secrets(now who would tell anything when you would slit your throat and degut yourself if you said anything  --  would scare the shit out of anyone).  BTW, the greatest secret  --  polygamy  --  and pinocchio joe was the greatest male whore of all(I think he's related to Bill"can't keep in his pants  --  I didn't have sex with that woman" Clinton  --  how many times did pinocchio joe deny that he had more than one wife).  And then they took some of the creepy/disgusting things out of the ceremony and just went on down the road as if nothing happened  --  maybe the morgbots in their morgbot comas won't notice and if they do  --  the profit or the other fossil 14 are the men  --  profits, sears and robucks.  And I say unto you with ever fiber of my being  --  HORSESHIT!!!!!! 

   


Posted: 12 January 2016 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Lazarus
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Looking back at my life pre-mission it is apparent I was very naive. I happily swallowed everything that was spoon fed to me. Maybe this trait was cultured because I was one of the youngest of a very large mormon family, or maybe I am just prone to naivety. In any case, I didn't really have a problem with the temple experience. Sure, it was odd to be sure, but my parents and siblings whom I trusted where playing right along with me. I trusted them, and would follow them into any fog they led me into. My mind was geared towards making this new ritual fit into the mormon schema I had heretofore (*ahem*) been taught. I was very much in the "Gods ways are higher than mans ways" mindset. I enjoyed the warmth and ornateness of the building. I liked the quiet calm. I liked being together with my family. It was long and tedious, but that has always been church for me, so it fit right in. The only thing that stands out to me as disconcerting was how rushed my dad made me feel as I was frantically changing my clothes around. For some reason he didn't like to be the last man standing, and I didn't understand why God would care if somebody, especially a new guy, would mind waiting a few more seconds to perform His holy ceremony. I like to think that had I been brought into the club during the penalty era that I would have seen through it all. But sadly I know that is just something I tell myself to give me comfort. I'm sure I would have lapped up that too and then said, "Please sir, I want some more." I was a ripe candidate for brainwashing. 

   


Posted: 12 January 2016 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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Jon Marshall
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The first time i went through the "session" was before i went on my mission.
 
I did not like it. I just remember feeling awkward, having to remember things, the handshake, my heavenly name that is so sacred i can't tell anyone, and the touching before it was changed.
 
My brother was so excited to show me the CR and had me stand in this mirror and look at the reflection to show me how cool it was that the reflections seemed to go on forever, like ETERNITY. Ugghh....  i hated it.
 
I can count on my hand how many times i have done a Session. 5.
 
 


   


Posted: 12 January 2016 03:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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I can definitely relate to this:
PEACEOUT 
This process took years much pain and guilt.  My belief in truth honesty and integrity lead me out of the church even without the internet.  
 
& this made me laugh:
MAYNARDG 
profits, sears and robucks
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 13 January 2016 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
Hank
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Jon Marshall:
The first time i went through the "session" was before i went on my mission.
 
I did not like it. I just remember feeling awkward, having to remember things, the handshake, my heavenly name that is so sacred i can't tell anyone, and the touching before it was changed.
 
My brother was so excited to show me the CR and had me stand in this mirror and look at the reflection to show me how cool it was that the reflections seemed to go on forever, like ETERNITY. Ugghh....  i hated it.
 
I can count on my hand how many times i have done a Session. 5.
 
 
 
 A couple of years ago I visited King Jan Sobieski's castle in Warsaw. It was a huge building filled with various art, inside and out. At one point we walked into a wide hallway/room with mirrors on both sides. It had been put up in the 1600's. The plaquard there talked about how the mirrors made one reflect on eternity, etc. I thought to myself "Well, this sounds familiar." 
 
In one of the serveant quarters was a painting on the ceiling of an angel sitting on the edge and then a porcelain angel leg extended out into the room. It would be like being in a swimming pool and looking up as someone stuck one leg into the pool. The plaquard talked about the veil between heaven and earth.
 
There were a couple of other things in the various ancient castles and churches of Warsaw that made me realize a lot of Americana and Mormonism was affected by European thinking that had been spread accross that continent since the 1500's among the intelligensia. Focusing on Mormonism, there isn't anything knew there, just old ideas long forgotten by most people.


   


Posted: 15 January 2016 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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I didn't feel like typing too much today, so I went back to an older thread and here's what I wrote. It's still how I feel about the whole charade:

I went in 1980, so I got the full meal deal, penalties and all. Every time I felt weirded out, I'd just look around the room and see all my smiling family members and think "Well, if they've done it, I guess I've got to do it too." But apart from the weird factor, I think the main thing I took from it was a sense of a huge let down.
 
I mean, standing pretty much naked (back then the "shield" amounted to a poncho made of threadbare cheesecloth) and some old dude with bad breath almost touching my junk, pantomimig the slitting of my throat, or disemboweling or eviscerating myself, chanting strange words... I figured there must be one hell of a pay off! When they demonstrated going through the veil they said "The person is then admitted into the presence of the Lord" or something to that effect, and while I didn't expect to actually see Jesus, the thought was there. At the very least, I expected more instruction - you know, "further light and knowledge".
 
Instead, it was my parents, my aunt, my uncle, my grandparents and other family members, all with big-ass grins on their faces and I'm looking around and thinking "WTF? Is that it?" I must have said something like "Is that all?" because I remember them saying, "Yes, that's it. Let's go eat!". I remember my aunt kissing me on the cheek and saying "Congratulations!". Congratulations for what? It's not like I had accomplished anything. I'd just gone along with whatever it was I was supposed to do. If I did accomplish anything, it was stopping masturbating long enough to get a temple recommend. 
 
So my family is standing around smiling, as if 3 hours of chanting and throat-slitting and secret handshakes and wearing weird-ass clothing is the most natural thing in the world. "Let's go eat!" may as well have been "Let's go shopping!" My mind was blown, and they wanted god-dammed roast beef. There was no pay off, and there has never been for anybody. The emperor has no clothes, but they all believe he's fully dressed.
 
Aunt and uncle and grandparents have since gone on to their reward. Assuming there is an afterlife, I wonder how let down/pissed off they were that they didn't need to use their new names, secret handshakes and memorized passwords/phrases to get in; that it was all a hoax. I hope there is an afterlife, if only for that moment of realization for all the TBMS (and other zealots) who wasted their life on a bogus religion!
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Posted: 15 January 2016 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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I went in 1977.  I had traveled from northern Washington to Oakland once to do baptisms for the dead, but I was completely unprepared for the endowment ceremony.  I remember feeling uncomfortable and disoriented.  I wanted to talk to someone about the whole thing, but then you can't do that except in the temple.  I recall going a second time while I was in the MTC.  It didn't really help.
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Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.

Phillip K. Dick


   


            
 
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Muslims Mormons & Ammon Bundy  
Posted: 14 January 2016 06:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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http://usustatesman.com/is-ammon-bundy-a-radical-mormon/

Their burning bosom is nothing unusual, it's just a medical condition http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/disease_info/heliobacter_pylori.html and the goosebumps they feel is not some type of stupid "Holy Spirit" descending.  
(Both very very popularized LDS signals of justification)
 
He's nothing more than your average, everyday, superstitious Mormon. 
 
(although in this case the stupid-stition could get everybody killed)
 
 
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-Nothing beats a failure like a try 
_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 14 January 2016 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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victim
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josephs myth:


http://usustatesman.com/is-ammon-bundy-a-radical-mormon/

Their burning bosom is a medical condition and the goosebumps they feel is not some type of stupid "Holy Spirit" descending.  (Both very very popularized LDS signals of justification)
 
He's nothing more than your average, everyday, superstitious Mormon. 
 
(although in this case the stupid-stition could get everybody killed)
 
 
 
Mormon anarchists in the form of right-wing whackos are blooming early this year! What an embarrassment for the alleged one true church on earth that has been guilty of promoting fanatical, anti-Government rabble rousing, trouble making/sedition from the very beginning of the movement! Amazingly, they now benefit financially from a 501 (c)(3) tax exemption while disengenuously claiming political neutrality! This affront to mainstream religion should be revoked immediately! Can any of you believe that these Bundy, criminal types are valiant, mormon priesthood holders in good standing with the so-called church? tommy, in-spite of your denials - you/your corporate - religious society, profit cronies own this one! victim


   


Posted: 14 January 2016 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Lock, stock and barrel, I might add... 

   


Posted: 15 January 2016 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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josephs myth:


http://usustatesman.com/is-ammon-bundy-a-radical-mormon/

Their burning bosom is nothing unusual, it's just a medical condition http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/disease_info/heliobacter_pylori.html and the goosebumps they feel is not some type of stupid "Holy Spirit" descending.  
(Both very very popularized LDS signals of justification)
 
He's nothing more than your average, everyday, superstitious Mormon. 
 
(although in this case the stupid-stition could get everybody killed)
 
 
 
 Many times religions preach goodness while throwing out seeds of destruction at the same time.  Mormonism has thrown out a train-load of these seeds from the very beginning.  People who are believers find these seeds of danger and plant them.  After all, those seeds came from god--right?
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 15 January 2016 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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josephs myth
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Strong Free & Thankful:
josephs myth:


http://usustatesman.com/is-ammon-bundy-a-radical-mormon/

Their burning bosom is nothing unusual, it's just a medical condition http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/disease_info/heliobacter_pylori.html and the goosebumps they feel is not some type of stupid "Holy Spirit" descending.  
(Both very very popularized LDS signals of justification)
 
He's nothing more than your average, everyday, superstitious Mormon. 
 
(although in this case the stupid-stition could get everybody killed)
   
 
Many times religions preach goodness while throwing out seeds of destruction at the same time.  Mormonism has thrown out a train-load of these seeds from the very beginning.  People who are believers find these seeds of danger and plant them.  After all, those seeds came from god--right?
 
 
The wicked-fast Internet speed in Provo doesn't seem to help the aging LDS superstitious beliefs and really really stupid Mormon practices based on a quite flimsy house of cards. 
 
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-Nothing beats a failure like a try 
_______________________________________________________________________
When you believe in things that you don’t understand, Then you suffer…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
          Stevie Wonder - Superstition Live


   


Posted: 15 January 2016 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Strong Free & Thankful:
josephs myth:


http://usustatesman.com/is-ammon-bundy-a-radical-mormon/

Their burning bosom is nothing unusual, it's just a medical condition http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/disease_info/heliobacter_pylori.html and the goosebumps they feel is not some type of stupid "Holy Spirit" descending.  
(Both very very popularized LDS signals of justification)
 
He's nothing more than your average, everyday, superstitious Mormon. 
 
(although in this case the stupid-stition could get everybody killed)
 
 
 
 Many times religions preach goodness while throwing out seeds of destruction at the same time.  Mormonism has thrown out a train-load of these seeds from the very beginning.  People who are believers find these seeds of danger and plant them.  After all, those seeds came from god--right?
 
Oath of vengeance, anybody?
 
This oath was in the temple until the late 1920s. All 4 of my grandparents were alive at the time. They may not have heard it first hand, but they would have heard it (or the sentiments it contained) from their parents and other adults. Growing up, I knew people in my ward who carried these exact same feelings. Even as an adult, I've heard older folks preach this type of sentiment from the pulpit. Old traditions die hard, especially in an insular community such as the LDS church.
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 15 January 2016 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Matter Unorganized:
Strong Free & Thankful:
josephs myth:


http://usustatesman.com/is-ammon-bundy-a-radical-mormon/

Their burning bosom is nothing unusual, it's just a medical condition http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/disease_info/heliobacter_pylori.html and the goosebumps they feel is not some type of stupid "Holy Spirit" descending.  
(Both very very popularized LDS signals of justification)
 
He's nothing more than your average, everyday, superstitious Mormon. 
 
(although in this case the stupid-stition could get everybody killed)
 
 
 
 Many times religions preach goodness while throwing out seeds of destruction at the same time.  Mormonism has thrown out a train-load of these seeds from the very beginning.  People who are believers find these seeds of danger and plant them.  After all, those seeds came from god--right?
 
Oath of vengeance, anybody?
 
This oath was in the temple until the late 1920s. All 4 of my grandparents were alive at the time. They may not have heard it first hand, but they would have heard it (or the sentiments it contained) from their parents and other adults. Growing up, I knew people in my ward who carried these exact same feelings. Even as an adult, I've heard older folks preach this type of sentiment from the pulpit. Old traditions die hard, especially in an insular community such as the LDS church.
 This is one sick religion!  How lucky each of us are to have escaped with our minds!
 
 Signature
I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


            
 
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Help with 12 minute video about dna. Need a rebuttal
by Strong Free & Thankful
Dedication Recommend Needed
by Denker
Mickelsen's "Dirty Linen"
by antipsicótica
Not Angry, A little confused, and a lot scared
by Winyan
Porn, Good or Bad?
by MishMagnet
Ghawd is anti-immigration?
by LostInParadise
The published journals of a gay apostate Mormon missionary
by CorbinBrodie
Morg and Utah politics
by Kevin2
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 21st, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
the temperature of your caffeine
by evil_archer
Revised Articles of Faith
by WinstonSmith
Do You Know Anyone Who Is Developing A Death Wish Because The Next Life Is So Wonderful?
by Strong Free & Thankful
Musings on the Holy Ghost
by Hank
What's in a Name?
by Denker
A New Reformation
by Lloyd Dobler
"It's not Stockholm Syndrome, I stay because The Spirit™ told me to!"
by Lloyd Dobler
Conspiracy Theories - Why Mormons Love Them So?
by Celestial Wedgie
G.A. accused of sexual assault (link)
by Elder OldDog
Are you in a codependent relationship?
by WinstonSmith
A blast from the "intellectual" past
by Strong Free & Thankful 

   http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/42010/