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The 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses is launched!
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Posted on February 8, 2016
More than 6,000 had their say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah's Witnesses
More than 6,000 had their say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses
You will all be pleased to know that the 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses was launched this weekend, and already has 124 responses.
To add your voice to the new survey, simply click on the “have your say” graphic at the top of the right-hand column (or click here).
Last year’s survey attracted a record 6,083 respondents, including 1,022 active Jehovah’s Witnesses, 145 serving elders (including 25 coordinators), 772 inactive ones, 1,706 faders, 1,461 disfellowshipped/disassociated ones, and 949 non-baptized voters (including 597 with JW relatives).
The data yielded from such impressive numbers was tremendous, and I will do my very best to get the results published earlier this time round – hopefully in the Spring.
A few quick stats for you:
◾67% of inactive voters said they would leave the organization if shunning were abolished
◾90% of disfellowshipped/disassociated ones say they are happier since leaving
◾66% of inactive/faded/former JWs were baptized at 17 or younger
◾Only 19% of inactive/faded/former JWs became Witnesses through the preaching work
◾27 elders say they are aware of pedophiles in their congregation
◾46% of active JW voters would either secretly or openly accept blood
◾13% of JW voters would allow their child to die for want of a blood transfusion
◾152 JW voters know of a fellow believer, or child of Witness parents, who has died from refusing blood
◾46 memorial partakers took our survey
◾77% of JW voters do not believe elders are appointed by holy spirit
◾58% of JW voters say they have never assisted anyone to baptism
◾Geoffrey Jackson is the most likeable GB member among JW voters
◾Anthony Morris is the least likeable GB member among JW voters
◾Sam Herd is considered the least controversial GB member among JW voters
◾Anthony Morris is considered the most controversial GB member by JW voters
◾50% of JW voters do not donate any money to Watchtower
◾10% of JW voters are happy for their donations to be spent in legal costs arising from sex abuse cases
◾22% of JW voters say that even if their religion were proven untrue, they would stick with it
◾78% of all voters have known or heard of a JW committing suicide
◾47% of all voters suffer from depression
◾766 say they suffer from depression but haven’t yet obtained professional help
◾1,123 voters say they have contemplated or attempted suicide as a result of their JW beliefs, or the prospect of shunning
◾907 voters say they have self-harmed as a JW
◾13.5% of voters were home-schooled as JWs
◾54% of voters say they were bullied at school as a result of their beliefs
◾55% of voters say they have experienced financial disadvantage as a result of JW teachings on higher education
◾113 voters say they are victims of child sex abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾58% of the 4,265 polled on their current beliefs expressed varying degrees of unbelief
◾The stigmatization of higher education continues to be the most-disliked Watchtower teaching
◾Only 136 out of 6,083 voters say they agree with all Watchtower teachings
I am sure, like me, you would consider some of those statistics as headlines in themselves, worthy of considerable press exposure. The fact that 27 out of 145 polled elders are aware of pedophiles within their congregation is nothing short of scandalous, as is the fact that our survey of over 6,000 current and former Witnesses yielded 113 professed victims of child sex abuse.
As shocking as these numbers are, I can only be grateful that we have this information at our disposal, and I am confident that our recently-expanded team at JWsurvey, temporarily under new management, will find time and opportunity to give these figures the exposure they deserve.
Meanwhile, I would like to thank each and every one of you who participated in last year’s survey, and I would urge all of you to do the same in 2016. By combining our voices on the harm being inflicted by Watchtower, we are no longer the silent majority.
new-cedars-signature3
Please note: a new feature of the new 2016 survey is the possibility of seeing the results at a glance once you’ve finished. However, I have already started getting feedback from people who are confused because they are seeing questions they weren’t asked. Please bear in mind that not every voter answers every question. For example, someone who is not an elder will not be asked questions for serving elders, and someone who has never been disfellowshipped will not be asked questions for those who are disfellowshipped, and so on. I may withdraw this feature if it ends up causing too much confusion, but for now I trust that many of you prefer to see how the survey is shaping up after you have taken it.
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← The Friday Column: Watchtower and Dinosaurs
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176 Responses to The 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses is launched!
Newer Comments →
Matt says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:39 am
I think Q6 for disfellowshipped people needs an N\A option.
Cheers!
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Imgonaburn says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:45 am
I can’t find the ‘have your say’ option to enable me to participate in survey…
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Cedars says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:47 am
Do you see the image of the person in the field with outstretched arms?
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Imgonaburn says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:49 am
I found it now. I was just viewing email (on phone) and it wasn’t there but when I viewed on full site the option appeared. Thanks
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Cedars says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:52 am
Great. :)
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Johannes Hoekstra says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:47 am
Amazing work you did…..but it is difficult to reach you or how we can support you?
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Cedars says:
February 8, 2016 at 4:56 am
Thank you very much! Yes, I’m afraid I’ve had to make myself deliberately hard to reach so that I can focus on my activism work. People are supporting JWsurvey in numerous ways, either through sharing our articles on social media, or translating them into non-English blogs, or donating to our work via PayPal, or spreading the word about our survey among friends. Any means by which you can advance our work is greatly appreciated!
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Ron says:
February 8, 2016 at 5:36 am
The figures are remarkable. I was shocked that 22% would stay even if proven untrue. Crazy.
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Jay Garrison says:
February 8, 2016 at 5:12 pm
That just goes to show you how brain washed these people are. I was one for 20 years.
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Big B says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:06 pm
Consider yourself lucky (fortunate)! I was raised as a J.W. and was baptized in 1969. I started my fade around 2011. That amounts to over 40 years of work for no compensation what so ever.
I wish I had a $1.00 for every hour I spent preaching their “doomsday” message as I wouldn’t be so cash strapped now on Social Security.
Oh well, to late to smart but free none the less.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 9, 2016 at 5:42 am
@Ron. I think the 22% mentioned that would stay are like any other religion of people. If you are raised Catholic or Protestant and you find out your church has some bad history or unscriptural teachings many if not most stay with the church. The difference with the JW”s is “WE” are taught from the moment we become indoctrinated that we are the ONLY true religion on earth and everyone else is false etc. Most other people are not taught that their Church is the absolute only one true religion so it isn’t a big deal with them if something is shown to be wrong or not true. With the JW’s it is almost a epiphany or an entire emotional depressing moment if they are found out to be not true and to MOST JW’s they have other things to think about if they decide to leave the church. Their families, shunning, no friends,their whole mental health, it is much deeper reality I think for a JW. In my case when I began to awake I went through many months and years of realization and I was in fear my family would not talk with me.
The WT is a cruel religion overall. It isn’t like if you are Catholic and not attending mass that the Priest will come knocking on your door with a bunch of Elders questioning you.Or if you go to a movie that is rated R you will get the minister of your church giving you a phone call or brought before a judicial committee etc.
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Winston Smith says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:26 am
Many Witnesses cannot conceptualize that the religion ever could be proven untrue. For them it is simply an impossibility due to thier cult conditioning.
WS
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ForestDaughter says:
February 8, 2016 at 5:50 am
Those statistics are absolutely fascinating. So many which surprised me, but one that stood out for me is that 50% of JW voters don’t donate to the organisation. It seems to me that not to do so (and so many who don’t) shows an indifference to, and possibly a disbelief in, an organisation that’s supposedly directed by their god. Quite an eye-opener.
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peggy says:
February 11, 2016 at 11:00 am
@ForestDaughter,
This was the point statistically which was significant to me. 50% do not donate! I can tell you personally, I stopped my donations to Watchtower when I no longer believed it was the truth. And I would not want my money going to defend abuse law suits. Time will tell if this lack of funding will effect the operation even more so.
Peggy
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peggy says:
February 11, 2016 at 11:00 am
@ForestDaughter,
This was the point statistically which was significant to me. 50% do not donate! I can tell you personally, I stopped my donations to Watchtower when I no longer believed it was the truth. And I would not want my money going to defend abuse law suits. Time will tell if this lack of funding will effect the operation even more so.
Peggy
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Felipe says:
February 8, 2016 at 5:53 am
something very important is missing, the comparisons with previous years. That will offer a view into important trends.
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Cedars says:
February 8, 2016 at 5:55 am
The full results will be published at a later date, and past results are available for those who want to do comparisons. :)
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Gerardo Aguirre says:
February 8, 2016 at 6:02 am
Exelente information, the discontent against the watchtower organization among Active and inactive Jahova witness is evident in this survey
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
February 8, 2016 at 6:29 am
Have you wondered why Anthony Morris is considered the most controversial GB member? It is in harmony with the Bible…
(Exodus 23:26, 27) . . .The women in your land will not suffer a miscarriage or be barren, and I will give you a full life span. 27 “I will send the fear of me ahead of you, and I will throw into confusion all the people you encounter, and I will cause all your enemies to flee from you in defeat.
I believe Controversy to create confusion is still their main weapon!!!
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Imgonaburn says:
February 8, 2016 at 6:40 am
Very interesting survey! I too noticed that only 50% of respondents contribute financially to organisation. However, it’s worth noting that the people doing the survey that don’t contribute financially are a small representation within this group. The majority of voters don’t go to the meetings any longer, and those that do still attend meetings but come on here are a tiny minority.
Having said that, my husband contributed his regularly monthly deed of covenant for the whole year that he missed meetings. He continues to do so now that he’s back in the fold. The money is paid from our joint bank account and I’m sooo tempted to just go online and cancel it but it’s an account that I don’t use don’t pay into.
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Cedars says:
February 8, 2016 at 7:45 am
The 50% figure was for active JW voters. :)
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Imgonaburn says:
February 8, 2016 at 8:01 am
Doh! I misunderstood that then…you may have noticed that I’m a bit scatterbrained at times lol
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Alexandria R says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:21 am
That’s amazing.
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Alexandria R says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:27 am
The fact 50% of active witnesses in the survey don’t contribute shows their unhappiness with the org. My sister who is fully indoctrinated grumbles about the org. The funny thing is it’s o.k. when she grumbles about the org but she doesn’t like it when I do.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 9, 2016 at 5:50 am
@imagonnaburn. What is this new monthly donation I am hearing about? Is everyone encouraged to donate now on a monthly scale or some kind of official pledge? Do they actually sign up for it?
What if you do not do it or want to do it? How long has this been going on? Please share.I am worried about my wifr giving money I never approved of. One time maybe 19 years ago I found out she “loaned” the WT $40k from my account without even consulting me. I found out bc a letter was on her desk that thanked her for the loan from the WT! I demanded it back and wrote the WT telling them of my disapproval etc. They did send it back but to her after about 1 month. She is a JW fanatic more than most JW’s. I was a former long time Elder and 20 years ago woke up and it caused a lot of pain bc she thought I was an apostate and we could not talk about religion freely if anything EVER was said negative about the WT.
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Jaime says:
February 9, 2016 at 8:30 am
For about five years, I don’t remember exactly, they have been asking for a pledge. Every May they pass out pieces of paper to each family and we are supposed to put down how much we “have determined in our heart” to give to the congregation. If you happen to be in a hall about to get a remodel or new kh, they say it is about the upcoming project. However, anyone that remembers that it happens every year knows that is bs. I don’t know the exact year it started. I do know that the elders take that figure, and divide it by two because they only get about half! :) They stress not to put your name the piece of paper, it is meant to be anonymous.
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 9:07 am
@Holy Connoli, two years ago this summer, at the district convention (the first one I did not go to), my husband charged $200 on our charge account as a donation towards the “world wide work”.
I had no idea what he had done until I got the charge bill and I couldn’t figure out where that $200 had been charged to and I asked him about it and he told me. I was so angry that I thought that my head would almost explode. The Society had some talk on the program and it made him cry and that’s why he did it.
The Society knows exactly what they doing when they give those kinds of talks.
All those fifty years, I was also generous towards the Society, because I thought that the Society was “poor” and I wanted to help out where the need was great but in the back of my mind, the thought was always there: How could they afford all those branches and all those buildings in New York and how could they afford to house and feed all those Bethelites etc. if they were really all that poor but I didn’t let that stop me from thinking that what I had was the “truth”.
Now I realize that the Society is just like any other religion that are really good con artists in taking advantage of gullible old ladies and dumb kids, stringing them along like the Society really cares and loves them. All those people are to the Watchtower Society is dollar bills.
There is a name for that kind of cunning cheaters and scam artists who con lonely old women out of their money and an inheritance that might have been left to their children.
It’s called “Catfishing”.
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Winston Smith says:
February 9, 2016 at 12:20 pm
@Caroline
When you have time, see if you can find the Marjoe Gortner documentary on YouTube. This guy was pushed into being a revivalist preacher (swindler) by his parents, but got out of it and revealed all the money making scams in the process.
In one interview he stated: “There’s one guy that gets into it so heavy that he prophesies and he told me how he did it. I mean he sat…he looked right across the table back and forth at me and he told me how he confiscates money. He says he’s on this station that has over 40 states and uh, he’ll go on and he get on the radio and he’ll say, “I know listening in my little voice tonite that there’s some lady out there and you got $10 dollars put away in a cookie jar, now God spoke to my heart and told me to go and tell you to get that $10 dollars and get it in the mail and send it to me and God will bless you. God will give you a reward as you have never known before” Then he comes back to me and tells me if you’re on the radio and you’re going on over 40 states and you’re on at prime time and have thousands of people listening. Chances are that there are at least two or three hundred little old ladies who got a $10 dollar bill in a cookie jar and so even if you get a couple hundred go ahead and get it and send it to you that’s two grand you’ve made just like that. And so, you know, if you’re going to get into big time religion this is the games you gotta play. Things like that. Going into it like a business and work it as a business”
The Organization knows how to ‘work it as a business” too!
WS
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 2:54 pm
@Winston, I watched three of those Youtube videos about Marjoe Gortner and I saw the one that you were talking about.
I would say that the Society really knows how to “work” an audience, judging by how generous my husband was that day. Normally, he only put about $40 in the contribution boxes at the end of the district assemblies, which I already thought was way too much.
When it comes to jwbroadcasting, the Governing Body could take some acting lessons from Jimmy Swaggart when it comes to pulling off some crocodile tears if they want to make some really big bucks from their audience because even having a captive audience of eight million that they can “work”, their acting skills lack beliveability.
Holy Connoli says:
February 10, 2016 at 12:44 am
@Caroline. I thought it was called stealing! lol. I am a night owl so sometimes at 2-3am in the morning I watch these TV evangelsits and they are always begging for money. Especially this one guy with weird hair and a brown beard. He keeps pushing every listener to put in a “SEED” for $1000 dollars. Seems like that is all he talk s about. The WT is more subtle about it but the end result is the same.They are all beggars for themselves. The WT is one of the wealthiest corporations in NYC and you know there is a lot of wealth there. Caroline? are you the former Anonymous? I notice there is also a anonymous4.Is there a connection between all of you?
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anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 12:55 am
Not as far as I’m concerned. “anonymous4” is my only handle. :)
Caroline says:
February 10, 2016 at 2:56 pm
Hi Holy Connoli. I was anonymous for quite a while. There was somebody else that was Anonymous too but I had a small a starting anonymous.
I have also seen that guy who is always asking for “seed” money. He seem really creepy but he must be making money or he wouldn’t keep his show going.
One thing the Watchtower Society taught me anyway, was to make me wary of con artists like that. I just wished I hadn’t been so blind to the Watchtower also being con artists.
Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 11, 2016 at 1:14 pm
50,000£ we were asked to raise for a new KH and theGB said they would match it with the same sum. A lot of hard work was done to raise this money, it took 5yrs then guess what, they took the money and renaged on the plan and kept the money and no new hall. Really really sickening. Really ungodly people.
Big B says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:24 pm
Good God, 40K! and didn’t consult you.
That’s not being a submissive Christian wife. :) If my wife “borrowed” monies out of our account without my consent (which she wouldn’t dare) I believe my next discussion with her would be to show her all of the child molestation judgments running into the 10’s of millions of dollars, which is where her (your) 40K would have probably ended up.
That’s just my two cents worth. I am so glad you recovered your funds.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 11, 2016 at 5:19 am
@ BIB B. My wife is so fanatical about the WT you cannot hold a normal conversation with her. She is aware of the molestation case and her only answer is oh all religions have sin but we DF them! The WT religion has destroyed many lives and families including my own to a large degree.
When I was a JW I was like most other brainwashed JW’s but to a lesser extent. My NON JW parents always taught me to recognize hucksters and my mon would say that if you are wrong you are wrong and admit it. Those words always lingered with me even when I was a JW and when I saw Things not being right I finally could not hide behind the “WE HAVE THE TRUTH” belief.
To many things were not right but the fear of being DF is always there and losing your family etc. It is a religion of fear.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 11, 2016 at 5:28 am
Big B. Oh she was never “submissive “believe me!Tons of arguments and wastin g money etc. She never worked only “pioneered” bc the end was so near! Did not want to be materialistic but yet would spend enormous amounts of money on nonsense, eating out,new car, new clothes etc. How much she gave away to the WT I will never know. Her WT thinking caused a lot of problems for us. Then she pressured my 11 year old kid at the time to get Baptized and I told him to wait she did not like that. He is a grown happy adult now and he cannot stand the WT religion. He said to me Dad, I had a tough time growing up in that religion and so glad we are no longer part of it.His Mother thinks I influenced him to leave and I said he made up his oen min=d based on his experiences.I guess that is one main reason among many others the wife and I are not living together these days! Sad but true.
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Rowland Nelken says:
February 8, 2016 at 8:04 am
It bears out, in grotesques fashion, all the great achievemnets of this registered charity.
Unnecessary deaths through refusal of blood; rate of depressive illness well above average; loads of folk compelled to go through the motions of believing the nonsense purely to keep from isolation and family breakup; a known culture of paedophile protection and a pathetically tiny percentagevwho actually believe that JW TRUTH is true.
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ruthlee says:
February 8, 2016 at 9:17 am
Fascinating so far what an incite into the trend of what is really going on in jw land.org rot is showing. ruthlee
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Caroline says:
February 8, 2016 at 9:53 am
It is disturbing to know that 13% responding JW’s would let their child die for not taking blood. Before becoming a Witness, I thought it was barbaric that Witnesses would let their child die for not taking blood and then I was talked into thinking it was what God demanded, to let your child die.
Now that I see the Watchtower for what it really is, I am not afraid to tell people how I really feel about blood to save the life of your child.
Last week, two brothers came by to see my husband and the topic of blood came up and one was talking about how people live with saline to increase volume and I came right out and told him that saline won’t help when a person has low platelets like my daughter did when she had her c-section for her twins.
There is no way that saline would have saved her life and I told those two brothers that and the one asked me what did my daughter to then and I told them that she took platelets and I am not sorry that I was the one that told her to take the platelets and I told them that my husband thought that would have been better for her to die than to transgress God’s laws and then I looked at both of them and said that I am not sorry that I told her to take the platelets and if they wanted to disfellowship me for doing that, then go right ahead.
I am not afraid to speak up anymore and I don’t care what they think of me either. Maybe others think the same as I do but they are afraid to speak up because they think that nobody else feels the same as they do.
If we all spoke up as to how we “really” feel about all the man-made laws and regulations that the Society imposes on the Witnesses, maybe then the Society would be forced to change it’s ways.
As it is, we are forced to keep quiet on the threat of being expelled and shunned and that threat of being shunned is what keeps everybody else around us scared to speak up too about how we or they “really” feel about being in that religion. No wonder so many of the respondents have thought about suicide or committed suicide and harmed themselves and are depressed.
Thank you so much Lloyd for giving us the opportunity to come out of the prison of our own minds and express how we really feel about this religion through your survey. It has to be a tremendous amount of work for you and we all appreciate it so much!
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dee2 says:
February 8, 2016 at 2:13 pm
Meat can never be completely rid/cleaned of its blood. Meat purchased from the supermarket still has blood in it, thus everybody who eats meat eats some blood. JWs should therefore be vegetarians since they shouldn’t consume blood.
I am sure the JWs, especially the females eat meat as a source of iron – the irony being that meat is a good source of iron because it has blood in it but nevertheless, JWs are forbidden from getting a blood transfusion.
I am sure there are also JWs who eat liver, which is blood-rich, and onions or chew on chicken bones which contain bone marrow (red blood cells).
Blood can also be passed on from mother to child via breast milk (Google this).
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anonymous4 says:
February 8, 2016 at 7:08 pm
@ Caroline
Absolutely. Do not fear to speak up / speak out. Do not fear the b*st*rds. Tyrants fear words & ideas. Make THEM fear US!!!
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Winston Smith says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:17 pm
@Caroline
The positive side is that while 13% would let their children die, that means that 87%, like you and I would not do that.
Yes, don’t be afraid to speak your mind to those Pharisees. Deep down they are cowards! Only when they think you’ll let them push you around do they show any backbone. Much like the schoolyard bullies.
WS
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MimiLove says:
February 9, 2016 at 7:05 am
Caroline, I would love to know what the reaction was from those brothers and if there were any repercussions that you suffered. I admire your boldness and am bracing myself for my “shepherding call”.
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 7:23 am
@MimiLove, I am wondering too if there will be repercussions from what I said to them. If so, I can’t wait for it.
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EverydayExplorer says:
February 9, 2016 at 7:32 am
Well done you, Caroline! Much respect.
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 10:35 am
Thank you all for your kind remarks. It’s amazing how easy it is to speak up, when you are 100% sure that those elders don’t have a leg to stand on anymore.
anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 12:58 am
Kick ass!
Holy Connoli says:
February 11, 2016 at 5:32 am
@Caroline. I think I remember you had mentioned your husband was sick and had an operation? Is he doing ok? I hope he is feeling better these days. Do the JW’s come over to visit him?
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Pow says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:43 am
Thanks for info, I find myself, more and more, trying to figure out what my fellow witnesses are thinking. I know of a couple of individuals who must have visited sites and seem to “know” information, a few seem to be asking the hard questions “usually resulting in shock and disgust “, but most, seem to be content with the same view that Roman Catholics have that is, we must be the true church, but it’s not for me to think about. So I’ll just repeat empty comments like “it’s never been this bad”, and everything from the price of gas to the dead spot in my lawn is a sign of the impending day of Jah. AND I concur the threat of disfellowshipping is the only thing that keeps this boat afloat.
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Winston Smith says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:11 pm
@Pow
“I find myself, more and more, trying to figure out what my fellow witnesses are thinking”
That’s exactly the issue: they fail to engage in any rational, logical thought. More to the point the thought-stopping techniques of this cult cause their powers of perception to fail.
WS
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Holy Connoli says:
February 10, 2016 at 12:47 am
@ Winston Smith. Are you still officially attending meetings and considered an active JW? If so how do you handle being there when you have awoken and know that it is not true and a cult? Just wondering how you handle it.
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Winston Smith says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:20 am
@Holy Cannoli
No, I haven’t regularly attended for a few years now. I still attend the memorial to appease my JW relatives – I absolutely dread it.
When I first started waking up (as I have probably shared on other posts previously) I used to try to mentally remove myself from the meetings; just sit there and replay some favorite movie or book in my head. My JW wife eventually caught on and confronted me, which in the long run aided me in fading more quickly as I did not any longer have to keep up appearances at home.
Since then, there has been much marital tension, but we have minor children at home still. Plus financially, i am the bread winner, so I am sure that influences her decision to stay.
WS
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Holy Connoli says:
February 9, 2016 at 5:56 am
@POW. The price of gas is actually pretty good right now! lol The dead spot on my lawn is a sign though bc I live in drought striken California. The end is near.
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Pow says:
February 9, 2016 at 9:12 am
Every doomsday movie has ARMAGETTON starting in new York city, but, we all know it’s really gonna be L.A.
So, thats why the droughts and earthquakes, I would suggest at least moving to where the need is great, East of San Andrews fault. Lol.
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David says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:51 am
I still feel that we need a different approach. Perhaps we need to campaign just for the shunning policy. How it is against basic human rights. We should work together and find a why of making people know about this injustice. New web site > donation > legal team created > public distribution of leaflets > bring the case in courts. But thanks for the big efforts Cedars.
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Winston Smith says:
February 9, 2016 at 4:13 am
Not sure if my last reply was removed or just didn’t do through. David, check out AAWA linked on the JWSurvey home page. They are trying to make the public aware of these damaging policies of the Watchtower Org.
WS
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Big B says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm
Maybe a letter writing campaign to U.S. congressional people or to state delegates? Asking them to investigate this cult, especially the pedophile protection that is going on.
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Jarred Booth says:
February 8, 2016 at 11:09 am
Completed the survey for the first time. One of the questions was: Are you happier having left the JW religion? Emphatic yes! Watchtower propaganda long told me I would be very unhappy if I left. That has been as far from the truth as possible.
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John Henry Kurtz says:
February 8, 2016 at 11:24 am
Good job! Thanks,
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Shayna says:
February 8, 2016 at 2:06 pm
This is astonishing. It needs to go very public with the press and any other means! Expose WT for wolves they are.
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AussieneedingComfort says:
February 8, 2016 at 3:28 pm
Glad to see you here Cedars. We have all missed your level head and calm heart greatly! For me, survey completed for 2016 and happy to do so. Hope you can come by and visit more often! Really enjoyed your article and waiting for your next input, whenever you can get to it.
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anonymous4 says:
February 8, 2016 at 7:23 pm
Great work, Lloyd!
Some shocking results: -almost half of all respondents are experiencing depression -77% of JWs don’t even believe elders are appointed by “holy spirit” -27 of 145 elders know of pedophiles in their ranks-that’s almost 20%!!!!!!!
Like I said, shocking.
Just like to repeat a comment I made earlier: Let’s not be afraid to speak up / speak out. Tyrants fear words & ideas. Make THEM afraid of US!!!
Thanx again.
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Winston Smith says:
February 8, 2016 at 10:03 pm
The growing number of participants in the survey and the high percentage that express disagreement with the Watchtower’s teachings, is indicative of the overall disillusionment among the members of this organization.
WS
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anonymous4 says:
February 9, 2016 at 2:12 am
I’m not a psychiatric professional, but I know the causes of depression & anxiety are often difficult to ascertain. Obviously, biochemical factors are involved. But there are also ‘life’ factors. Has religion or cultism ever been found to be the culprit? Literally millions of JW’s could be experiencing depression without having any idea that it could be linked to their ‘religion’. & mental illness, like cancer, is more profitable when it’s treated, rather than cured. How many psychiatric professionals are willing to bore down deep enough to the root cause, especially if it’s faith-related? Talk about opening up a can of worms!!! Can u imagine a psychiatrist grabbing someone by the collar, yelling, “It’s your Goddamned religion!!! That crazy cult of yours! Get out of it! That’s what’s screwing you up. Screwing your brain & your emotions. Get out of it now!!!”
Yeah, right. Bye bye lucrative psychiatric practice, Hello car wash – Wax on, Wax off. “Freedom of Worship” ‘laws’ go a long way.
Here’s an interesting clip of another dystopian society, George Lucas’ THX 1138:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thx+1138+opening+scene
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anonymous4 says:
February 9, 2016 at 2:30 am
I know no psychiatrist would actually grab someone’s collar & start yelling. But I myself have never even heard of a psychiatrist gradually, gently, & sensitively weaning someone off a religion or cult.
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anonymous4 says:
February 9, 2016 at 2:35 am
…unless it was part of a Deprogramming regimen, but of course, that’s not what I’m talking about.
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 3:41 am
anonymous4, it is almost for certain that very few witnesses will go to a psychiatrist for help with depression because we were all brainwashed right from the beginning, that anybody who would encourage us to stop studying are from Satan the devil and want us to get off of the “road to everlasting life” and that even includes our families and friends. The Society makes all Witnesses paranoid of anybody who isn’t a Witness.
A friend of my husband and me encouraged me to get in touch with a Witness psychiatrist a couple of years ago and she was supposed to help me with my depression. This friend said that even brothers that he knew in the “truth” had gone to her and I couldn’t believe what he was telling me because for one thing, this psychiatrist was a woman and men in the Organization are not to be “taught” by women and secondly, why would this psychiatrist be listening to people who are being depressed by the very religion that she is a part of and stay a Witness?
Witnesses are never encouraged to seek professional help when it comes to mental problems. They are encouraged to talk to the elders and pray and read the Bible and take pills and that’s it, and if the Society tells Witnesses that they can go to a professional, they are told not to divulge “confidential” things, like for instance that they might be being beat up by their elder husbands or have been molested by another Witness or they are afraid of Armageddon or they have doubts about the religious teachings and they have no way of escaping the religion without being shunned.
What psychiatrist can help a Witness cope with all the problems that are involved in finding out that they have been duped by their religion and have no way of getting out of it by either being shunned by all their family and friends or living a lie for the rest of their life?
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Idontknowhatodo says:
February 9, 2016 at 3:57 am
An elder made the comment to me that brothers are suffering from depression because of this old system and its pressures….what a joke….its because they were stopped from acheiving their true potential as human beings and are now confused and lost because we are still here and the terrible end has not arrived and we are not sitting under our own fig tree petting a lion…and our parents who brought us up to beleive this was going to happen are passing away and we are in the Autumn of our lives…aaarrrggghhh…so frustrating…why doesn’t everyone see whats happening!
Holy Connoli says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:06 am
@Caroline. Just curious was the JW Lady Psychiatrist from Colorado? My wife use to spend a lot of time with a JW Psyke on the phone as the lady was in Colorado and we were in California. Just wondering bc it is rare to find a JW Doctor anywhere bc of the ANTI_EDUCATION position the WT takes. Of course they could have become a JW after their education. I knew of a Medical Doctor who was A JW and also a Super smart Former CIA agent who was a JW. They were almost worshipped by other JW’s every time they came around. It was amazing . The JW’s would all gather around nd ask them questions like little kids.Of course their careers were stared before they were JW’s but just shows you how unbalance the WT is.
Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:13 am
@Holy Connoli, yes, if I remember right, that lady psychiatrist was in Colorado because that is where our friend is from.
Tara says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:12 pm
I ended up in the hospital for over a month and had Psychiatric counseling. Not one elder came to visit me. Not one. I had one of their wives pop by and a couple of friends. One was a false friend and another sister – who, by the way is df`d now, found me crying in the corner of my room after the `false friend`had given me the whole `pull your self together`talk. Although I wouldn`t say this incident was wholly cong. instigated it was certainly part of it. However, even now I suffer from anxiety on meeting nights and days…. even though i no longer go. It`s like being weened off a drug. I feel so much better not going to the hall but I have to leave the house on a Saturday mornings just in case they `pop`round. Or I lock my door and retreat into a room where they can`t look through the windows. Yes, I suffer from PTSD and the WT adds to it.
Winston Smith says:
February 10, 2016 at 11:27 am
@Tara
Ah the pop ’round (or we call it the pop-in). First time they pulled it with me was on a Sunday after the meeting. I got some perspective on how rude it was to just show up at someone’s house unannounced. As Witnesses, we used to do that all the time. Now I typically find somewhere to be on Sat and Sun or I just don’t answer the door if I’m not expecting anyone.
WS
Caroline says:
February 10, 2016 at 12:03 pm
Tara, I lived in constant dread of meetings and service. It never left me. Finally I don’t have that terrible feeling of dread come over me anymore but even just listening to jwbroadcasting or going onto jw.org and listening to one of their magazine readings or reading articles out of my husbands magazines or looking at the new version of the kingdom ministry, I get those same feelings of dread and doom and gloom back again but I refuse to feel any guilt, no matter how much those articles are designed to do that to people.
I never had that feeling of doom and gloom before becoming a Witness, but once I got involved, that depression of dreading of having to go to meetings and service was always there, 24-7.
I wished more than anything I could have gone to a psychiatrist and unloaded on him or her. Living like that doesn’t only affect our lives, but our children too. I don’t know how any child can grow up “normal” in the JW religion.
Tara says:
February 11, 2016 at 7:51 pm
Arrived home today to a note left in the door jam. ‘Just popped around to see if you were in’. signed by two elders…. hmm.
Winston Smith says:
February 11, 2016 at 8:49 pm
@Tara
Maybe your elders were reading the comments on JWSurvey and got inspired. LOL
WS
Tara says:
February 11, 2016 at 9:32 pm
Turns out the ‘popped round’ to see my daughter as well… neither of us were in. But it sent my anxiety up. I am on my own. I think it is wrong that two men can turn up on a single sisters door without an invite. In a way I view it as entrapment… I spoke to a non witness friend about this same subject the other day and he said that some hierarchy from his church tried that on him once…. he told them in no uncertain terms never to do it again. I now dread being in my own home in case I get more visits. It almost feels like stalking.
Winston Smith says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:39 am
@Tara
Sorry. Didn’t mean to make light of a situation causing you anxiety. I believe you have said in other posts that you don’t DA because of family. If you were DA’d they’d leave you alone and if not you could simply get a restraining or cease and desist order from a court. But as a fader that’s tough. I have found that all you can do is wait it out until they eventually give up on catching you. Could be ’cause we are coming up on the memorial season and there is some mandate to contact inactive ones. I am a fader too, but because I don’t go to any meetings (other than memorial for relatives) they pretty well leave me alone as a lost cause. I think you said you go to occasional meetings for appearances. As such they see you as a weak sister needing assistance rather than a lost cause. Sorry I don’t have any better suggestions. Perhaps others in the community will have better ideas.
WS
Tara says:
February 12, 2016 at 7:56 am
No worries WS :) yes I think you are probably right… weak sister syndrome….. ha ha.
Gary says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:17 am
Very interesting statistics regarding the number of Elders knowing an abuser (approx 37%) and the number abused (appox 8%), that’s a cause for real concern.
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:57 am
About the 90% responding, saying they are happier since leaving the Organization, I am one of those, even though most of the people that I knew as an active Witness either don’t talk to me and ignore me when they see me out and about and that is after being a faithful Witness for fifty years. I am still happier.
As a Witness, I felt always depressed as if there was a dark cloud over my head all the time. The fear of Armageddon and the guilt of never feeling as if I was doing enough was always there, bringing me down. I would go to a meeting and the meeting would make me depressed for several days and then the next meeting would bring on that dark cloud again and the same for service. I always felt down and depressed but since leaving, I don’t have that dark cloud over my head any longer and it feels great. If I missed a meeting, then that would make me depressed too. I couldn’t win.
When a Witness is having doubts and suffers from depression, you are not allowed to confide even in your closest friends or even your family and even to those on the “outside” because anything you say will send up red flags to those people and it will be held against you and taken to the elders. Witnesses are so afraid of losing their own that they will fear that that person is falling “out of the truth” and the sad thing is that any friends or family will think that the elders will “help” that loved one, but the opposite is what happens.
Any time a Witness expresses doubts over either losing faith in the Bible or God or the Organization to the elders, the elders will sense an apostasy and instead of helping that person by answering their questions and helping them with their doubts, will chastise them and either disfellowship them for apostasy or give a marking talk about that person to the congregation, without even giving that person a hearing ear, and once that happens, the person has absolutely nobody to confide in because those who had been their friends and family will refuse to talk to them or listen to them. There is no help coming from the elders and nobody to confide in, without being “turned in” to the elders for one reason or another.
It is an Organization of fear and intimidation. It is no wonder that each and every Witness doesn’t suffer from depression. If it’s not because of the constant threat of doom and gloom or the battle of Armageddon, then it’s the guilt over not doing enough for Jehovah and then there’s the thought that one or more of their family members is either disfellowshipped or doesn’t want anything to do with the “truth” and those people will be killed at Armageddon.
It doesn’t matter to the elders what it does emotionally to the disfellowshiped one or the marked one, because the elders are brainwashed to put the Organization’s “cleanness” above anything else. That person who they had formerly treated as a friend and even family member will be looked as if they are working for the devil and are then “unclean” and bad association and deserving of death at Armageddon.
Even knowing all that, I am still much happier after I stopped going to the meetings because I realize now that all of the remaining Jehovah’s Witnesses who are still active in the cult are wasting their precious lives away on lies.
Even though I learned it the hard way that I had been duped for those fifty years of the best years of my life, at least I still have some life to live and I will make the most of the remaining time I have left on this earth, and for that I am grateful.
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EverydayExplorer says:
February 9, 2016 at 7:42 am
And your valuable experience is inspiring others to find their own way out of an inauthentic lifestyle, Caroline.
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James Broughton says:
February 9, 2016 at 8:54 am
Thank you Caroline for that brilliant testimony.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:10 am
@Caroline. Sometimes I notice after a comment there is NO REPLY link respond to a comment.Does it happen to any of you also and f so I wonder why?
Caroline It maybe the same Psych JW lady in Colorado bc how man JW doctors can there be since the JW’s are very low on the totem pole for education. I guess it would not be proper to mention name on here if I found it .Well, I will just describe the city she is from and then we can check
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Caroline says:
February 10, 2016 at 6:23 am
@Holy Connoli, when I see there is no reply link, I go up the comments until I see where I can reply and then the reply usually posts under the very last one. I don’t know if that is what you are talking about though.
I would bet that the lady Witness psychiatrist is the same one also. I don’t think there are that many Witness lady psychiatrists in Colorado, if anywhere else in the U.S. for that matter.
I guess what my husband’s friend was saying about her is true then. It seemed so weird to me that it was hard to believe it. If I remember right, my husband’s friend even said that circuit overseers have gone to her for help.
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Winston Smith says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:33 am
After a comment is replied to, the text indents and you can reply to either the original comment or to the last reply. I think the system allows you to reply at one more level in, but after that it does not allow more replies, I think because it would indent too far over to read. At that point you can simply reply to the previous comment and your new reply will be placed below.
At least that’s how it works on my smart phone.
WS
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Average Joe says:
February 10, 2016 at 5:35 am
As I wrote the other day on http://jwsurvey.org/governing-body-2/the-friday-column-shunning-a-toxic-practice-in-which-everyone-ultimately-loses
I can only hope my recently disfellowshipped friend finds himself happier outside the organisation. He’s really been through the mill with the judgemental jokers on the JC.
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Tara says:
February 10, 2016 at 8:34 am
I followed your link from the JWSurvey 2016 post AJ. This is disgusting. I wish your friend well and hope he can come to terms with it. I hope he doesn’t go to the JC meeting.
I have noticed that late last month and just this week, two of the elders wives have tried to contact me via texts. Both have said how much they miss me at meetings. I politely told them I miss them too. Which is true from a human point of view but from a logical view on the matter, I believe they are being used by the elders to ‘contact me’ to see what is going on.
Please can you let me know what is in these letters that ask you to go to a JC meeting. I have heard about them and I recal one elder gloating how he and another elder literally camped outside a witness house until he came home and then forced the letter into his hand telling him, he was going to be df’d. He told those in the car group about this with such pride it made me feel sick, even back then. I think I would be taking it to a lawyer if I was ever given/sent one.
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Winston Smith says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:18 pm
@Tara
The last part about the DF letter reminds of an elder I got to know a bit just before I faded (in fact his negative impact helped speed the process along). About 25 years older than me and a long time elder, he used to brag about all the people he had the pleasure to disfellowship. Seriously, he was like a serial killer or rapist who got off on reliving the details of each of his crimes. There was no other way to describe him other than a fat, pompous, egotistical, maniacal a$$hole.
Sometime after I faded, he led the judicial committee that disfellowshipped a friend of mine. At the end of their meeting, she had already been informed she would be disfellowshipped (even though she had approached the elders to confess her “sin”), and she asked if they were going to close with prayer. Fat-ass responded “we don’t say prayers for disfellowshipped people!”
Really? What did Jesus say about praying for your enemies? What a tool!
WS
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Average Joe says:
February 11, 2016 at 3:27 am
Sadly Winston, elders like that are not an exception. I know of one who still brags about the same thing. Funny thing is, that it’s all supposed to be done by Holy Spirit yet when it comes to disfellowshipping, it’s the elders themselves who do it. Curious. These types of individuals on a power trip deserve everything that’s coming to them.
Tara says:
February 11, 2016 at 8:12 am
How can individuals put faith in these men to look after them and pray for them. when they ‘popped over’ to have an encouraging talk with me and then interrogated me on going to my sons wedding I saw the other side. I haven’t been to a meeting or out in service for months now but I am seeing the effects. So called ‘friends’ no longer post on my fb page. text messages have stopped, friendly waves as they pass me in the car have stopped. I guess they will be keeping a close eye on me though, waiting for me to make a slip up so they can pronounce judgement. The thing is I am no longer concerned… the only thing that worries me is my granddaughter who’s mother and family are strong witnesses. I am sure they will try to stop her from seeing me.
Winston Smith says:
February 12, 2016 at 12:20 pm
When you read the few scriptures that support the idea of disfellowshipping, there is no provision made for a judicial committee. The rebuke came from the congregation in general. The whole judicial committee idea is manmade.
WS
Winston Smith says:
February 12, 2016 at 12:25 pm
@Tara
As far as the conditional friendships from the various congregation members, my opinion is: who needs ’em? I have no use for such people as friends. But I understand the real danger you face in regard to the threat to the relationship with your granddaughter.
WS
anonymous4 says:
February 9, 2016 at 7:38 am
Elders are NOT mental health professionals. All they have is their ‘Dr. Seuss’ advice from the bible & WT BS society literature. The WT Corporation puffs up their heads into believing they are qualified to deal with such things, but they are not.
Anyone experiencing depression, anxiety, panic attacks, PTSD, suicidal thoughts, etc, should seek PROFESSIONAL help. At least start out by talking to your family doctor, or getting an evaluation at a hospital. If cost is an issue, get advice from such people; there may also be government-sponsored programs or government assistance.
Even if you have to do it ‘on the sly’.
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Bad Penny says:
February 13, 2016 at 8:42 am
The amount of JWs with mental health problems is disturbing –
About fifteen years ago (whilst still a JW) I was getting anxiety attacks and went to my GP, who referred me for counselling.
I attended one session and felt so guilty – after all I was a JW, I should not have these problems! I should be a happy bunny! I ended up in floods of tears and decided not to attend again. On leaving the session, I bumped into a ‘sister’ on her way in!
There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses having these problems, who keep it secret. The root of the problem is the control the WT have on our minds, it seems our brains can’t always take it and they rebel! I’m sure it also effects ones physically. After all, how many able bodied witnesses have we known who seem to let themselves go and end up obese, disabled and in wheel chairs? Perhaps another question for the Survey?
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James Broughton says:
February 9, 2016 at 8:51 am
Lloyd, thank you for the survey which makes challenging reading. It is how we use those statistics that will be important over the coming months. Clearly the issue of paedophilia is paramount but so is shunning, education, mental health and the Governing Body. It is useful to time them in with current Watchtower literature. For example, the recent Watchtower is given over to ‘Honesty’ and the recent Awake! is about ‘Attitude’. Asking relevant and penetrating questions with Witnesses is sometimes a more useful tool than bombarding them with cold statistics, as helpful as they may be to those of us outside.
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Twmack says:
February 9, 2016 at 9:00 am
Good on ya Caroline, Your an inspiration, you tell it like it
is. You’ve lost some shallow “friends” but made many
genuine ones here.
I’ve been ignored on the the street by people, pioneers,
who for 12 years, spent every Wednesday evening at my
home having meals, watching TV etc. My crime, I was no
longer interested in their religion, but I’m much happier
without such conditional association.
I still have some affection for them, but I pity them. Such
Narrow mindedness.
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Jaime says:
February 9, 2016 at 9:04 am
Thank you for all your hard work Lloyd; I appreciate it greatly. The kindness and gentleness you show to us who are newly coming out is outstanding. Best Regards, Jaime
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Alexandria R says:
February 9, 2016 at 10:37 am
The fact that 766 people in the 2015 survey say they suffer from depression but haven’t yet obtained professional help shows the society manipulates people into ignoring their own healthy boundaries. Unhappiness results because people feel powerless. When you’re awake and you have JW family they will affect you because you can’t control them. I’m awake but my sister isn’t. I deal with her as an ill person. I know when to back off and show restraint. I reason with her every day. She ignores the JW hypocrisy. I know she has to wake up on her own. She knows how I feel.
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Winston Smith says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:14 pm
Dealing with JW relatives as when with a mentally ill person (I am assuming you meant mentally and not physically ill) – that’s a good way to handle it.
WS
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anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:08 am
…or more precisely, “mentally diseased” – sound familiar btw? 😉
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Bright Lightbulb says:
February 9, 2016 at 10:48 am
Can someone help me with this?
Some of these stats are scary indeed but I have a dilemma of sorts. In almost all cults or when we look at certain preachers who live in incredible luxury on behalf of everyone giving their money, we don’t really see this with WT. Therein lives a small part of my dilemma. I don’t see or know of incredible wealth nor luxury. Yes the GB appear to live a comfortable life but not luxurious in that same way. So then what is the modus operandi other then exercise control? part of me says the GB know their 1914 teachings are false and so status
quo has to be upheld at all cost. But for what? what is their ultimate goal? Like with previously mentioned preachers, cults etc its almost always money for themselves.
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Caroline says:
February 9, 2016 at 12:14 pm
@Bright Lightbulb, these are my thoughts about what you are saying:
I don’t believe that the Governing Body are deliberately deceitful. I believe they are deluded with the idea that they really are preaching the end of the world and so feel they really are the “guardians of doctrine” for Jehovah’s organization and don’t think about the real estate empire they are building up as “money in their pockets” but as belonging to Jehovah.
The problem is that they don’t really read the Bible for what it really says, but they rely on the writing committees to come up with the articles and then they approve of them or go over them for any mistakes.
I feel they really do think that God has appointed them over all “His” belongings and they really do feel they have to keep the Organization going because if they don’t do everything they can to make sure all the world has heard the “good news of the kingdom” before Jehovah destroys the world of mankind at Armageddon.
I feel the Governing Body and all those in New York have not allowed themselves to “think” any more than the rest of the rank and file have allowed themselves to think and to question their “faith”.
In my opinion, if the Governing Body or any of those in the Bethels or the writing committees or any of the rest of the active JW’s who are running the whole thing come to the realization that the whole thing is nothing but an illusion or a delusion, they would have a “Crisis of Conscience” just as Ray Franz had what happened to him and it would be devastating for them, just as it has been for the rest of us who have wakened up from our delusional sleep.
Unless at least one of them (the Governing Body) “wakes” up and comes out like Ray Franz did and exposes them as deluded, it will keep going on just as it has been all these years.
If that doesn’t happen, then I am hoping that one by one, people start waking up and it implodes from the inside.
The whole thing depends on the Bethelites doing all the hard work. If they start waking up and realize they are being “used” and refuse to work for them for nothing, maybe then it might crumble too.
I am in the hopes that at least one of he Governing Body has a working conscience and starts to actually read his Bible for what it really says and his brain wakes up and he decides not to rely on the “converted” Bible that he reads now and has the courage to be another Ray Franz.
When I look at the internet and the avalanche of the Youtube videos exposing the Watchtower, I think that sooner or later, the Society has to realize it can’t win, no matter how hard they try to suppress the real truth about the Organization and because of the avalanche of those videos, they will have to change it’s policies and suffer the shame of having misled millions of people and suffer the shame and guilty consciences for being responsible for the deaths of thousands of people due to not taking blood,including many innocent babies and children.
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Bright Lightbulb says:
February 9, 2016 at 4:44 pm
Thanks. That makes sense. Although I doubt that last part will ever happen.
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Winston Smith says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:20 pm
The organization can only grow so much with its current structure. It’s choices will be to either reform and go mainstream or to dwindle. It could also splinter off.
WS
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Winston Smith says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:28 pm
Although the GB does not enjoy the opulence of some of those televangelists, they do enjoy privileges and prestige well beyond the means of most of the rank and file.
Ray Franz wrote of his time on the GB: “If security and comfort were my aim, I certainly would have opted for staying where I was, for all our physical needs would have been provided us as part of the headquarters staff. Our long years of “seniority” would give us the choice of some of the better rooms that periodically became available in the Society’s many large buildings. Our vacation time would increase to the equivalent of some six weeks a year and, because of being a Governing Body member, it would always be possible to combine this with speaking engagements that cartied one to points all over the United States and Canada, or with zone visits that took one to points all over the earth. (Governing Body members can regularly take their vacations in places the average person could only afford
to dream about.) In 1978, my wife and I found ourselves boarding planes over fifty times in that one year, and over the years we had traveled to Central and South America, Asia, Europe, Africa and the Middle East.
If prestige or prominence were what was sought, I could not reasonably have asked for more. I was already declining, on a monthly basis, about three or four invitations for speaking engage- ments for every one that
I accepted. Internation-
ally, if traveling to Paris,
Athens, Madrid, Lisbon,
Mexico City, Sao Paulo,
or almost any other major
city, it was only neces-
sary to advise the Branch
Office and a meeting
would be arranged to
which thousands of
Jehovah’s Witnesses
would flock. It became al-
most commonplace to address audiences ranging in size anywhere from five thousand up to thirty thousand persons. Practically anywhere a Governing Body member goes he is the guest of honor among his fellow Witnesses.”
WS
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anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:19 am
A Bethelite strike. Now THAT would be something! Unfortunately, there may not be 2 sets of b*lls among the lot of them. lol
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anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:33 am
@ WS
Thanx 4 that eye-opening info. I didn’t realize the GB had such opulent lifestyles. WOW!!! Must be nice!!!
Power is also a motive. Power & control, not to mention the adulation & worship that come from being man-gods walking the Earth.
Televangelists may enjoy more opulence, but that’s related to power. Money is a form of power. Most of the enjoyment simply comes from flaunting it.
Personally, I honestly believe the GB down to the vast majority of elders are fully aware of what they’re doing. How else do they invent & spread all the fairy tales. It’s obvious there is no “holy spirit” telling them what to write. Where does it all come from? & how about all the cult manipulation & mind-control. The GB r deluded? Not in my view. I think they know exactly what they’re doing, & why.
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Winston Smith says:
February 10, 2016 at 3:49 am
@A4
You hit the nail on the head: Power is the key motivation.
But I think that as far as being deluded, the GB and at least part of the local elder bodies live in two worlds as it were. On the one hand they do have a sense of what they are doing – maintaining their power, controlling others, etc. But they keep that sense buried beneath their delusion that they really are being led by God. They may have moments of clarity, where they know exactly what the real deal is, but then their psyche buries it beneath all the fairy tale wonder. And when you have thousands of people worshiping and adulating you, it’s easy to convince yourself that all the lies are true.
At the same time, I think there are a number of local elders who genuinely think that they are doing God’s will, and they just blindly follow the leadership. Their own cognitive dissonance keeps them under the spell.
WS
Winston Churchill says:
February 10, 2016 at 5:54 am
@Winston Smith & @Anonymous4
Joseph Rutherford being the main man (Top GB Member) had a very opulent lifestyle with 2 Cadillacs & Luxury homes in Manhattan, Germany (the Real reason he opposed Hitler )& obviously Beth Sarim (massive mansion .
I used to visit a friend in Mill Hill Bethel in the 1970s & he took me on a tour of the million pound homes around Mill Hill which the society owned & still own which certain district overseers & branch members & their wives lived in rent free plus free cars,food, clothes all paid for by ordinary brothers donations & as the Watchtower is a registered charity no one pays any tax.
So it is a very fine line and difficult to know whether present day GB Members have their own private homes & what wealth they have as the GB print no Financial Accounts just very hazy videos about donations going to build Kingdom Halls in third world countries with ice cream money .
I hope I am wrong because it would sadden me if ordinary rank & file JWs donations are being misused in any way. The only way to prove otherwise is to print public financial records like the Church of England does. I just googled it & their accounts are very very detailed so come on GB if Babylon the Great can do it surely Gods Organisation ?? Can.
Winston Smith says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:48 pm
@Winston Churchill,
Very good points. Rutherford was probably the worst of the whole lot. Much of the cult control can also be traced back to his presidency.
But that lends itself to another good point. And that is this: the GB members are each individuals with their own level of delusion and there own level of reality. We tend to think of them as a united front, but there is not the level of unity we imagine (Crisis of Conscience helped bring this out). So some are more under the delusion of being God’s directed servants, while others are more enticed by the overwhelming power they wield. But they are all seduced by the absolute power to some extent.
WS
Bad Penny says:
February 13, 2016 at 8:55 am
Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely!
(Lord Acton, British historian)
MARS says:
February 9, 2016 at 10:53 am
AS SCHOCKING AS IT IS. Will this survey ever lead to serious reform IN THE WATCHTOWER? We can only hope the participants come out of the Schell.
Reply
Pow says:
February 9, 2016 at 11:10 am
Just a thought concerning “Elders appointed by holy Spirit ” evidently the 23% didn’t get the memo from the org..the idea that Elders are directly appointed by h.s. has been modified. The current doctrine is h.s. directed paul to record the qualifications of an older man, and to the degree that body’s of elders today appoint in harmony with those directions then it is said to be “in agreement with holy Spirit ” thus when it turns out that a rapist, pedophile, wife beater, adulterer ,ect is appointed it’s because of failure of the local body. It should have been more evident in his publisher record cards.
Reply
Twmack says:
February 9, 2016 at 1:16 pm
I’m not surprised that 22% would stick to the religion
even if it were proved to be untrue.
One sister in our circuit stated, “if the society told her
to jump off Blackpool Tower she would do it”
They’ve become Zombies, everything but the masters
voice is blocked out.
Reply
Johannes Hoekstra says:
February 9, 2016 at 2:50 pm
Remaind that the Watchtower are one of the powerfully institutions of in this world. They have one of the biggest influence and have everywhere agents. Brooklyn is more than 7 GB members for me. They never give up like Kaddaffi in Libia, they start to be mad even.
Reply
anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:39 am
They have lots of power.
Reply
Alexandria R says:
February 9, 2016 at 6:24 pm
My family are JWs. They don’t realize they are using self deception as a way of hiding the truth from themselves and for hiding it more deeply from others. A person is susceptible to self-deception when they have emotional attachments to beliefs, which in some cases may be irrational. Self-deception enables someone to believe her or his own distortions. Self-deception can be used both to act greater or lesser than one actually is. Self-deception lowers cognitive cost; that is to say, it is less complicated for one to behave or think in a certain manner that implies something is true, if one has convinced oneself that that very thing is indeed true. Simple instances of self-deception include common occurrences such as: the alcoholic who is self-deceived in believing that his drinking is under control. JWs have a difficult life and suffer from depression because they lie to themselves.
Reply
Wip it says:
February 9, 2016 at 8:34 pm
Good to hear some points on donating money, this of which i stopped years ago, mainly due to being in Elders meetings at the circuit assemblies & one days when they would read the financial report, even though at that time early nineties to say 2012 they had 3/4 of a million in kitti, they then would extort more from the congo, so i guess all that money has been taken by the WT, i recently heard through an active elder that they had disbanded the RBC, so what about our refurb, well we did get some new concrete, he also told me of a KH being sold of & a fairly flush congo that had a million dollars, at least we only had $50k, what about all the years we gave to the world wide work???, i hate to think how munch money the society has taken of us, some say oh its an equalizing & their is a new KH being built every day, show me the proof, the money/greed thing is one of my big turn offs.
Reply
anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:40 am
They’re glorified con men.
Reply
Cedars says:
February 10, 2016 at 1:42 am
Do you think you could limit the number of one-line off-topic comments? It would be much better if you treat each comment as an actual comment rather than a new line in a private message exchange.
Reply
anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 2:45 am
How exactly was I being off-topic?
Reply
Cedars says:
February 10, 2016 at 2:51 am
As I scroll down your latest comments, I see a list of one-liners…
“Funky Cold Medina.”
“They’re glorified con men.”
“They have lots of power.”
“Kick ass!”
“Potato – PoTAHto.”
Some of those comments may be relevant to the post, but I doubt all of them are.
I am just asking that you treat the comments section as a comments section rather than a PM exchange. That’s all.
anonymous4 says:
February 10, 2016 at 7:04 am
ALL those comments were relevant to the current discussion. U don’t seem to have a problem with other folks’ replies. Why r u singling ME out?!
Cedars says:
February 10, 2016 at 8:04 am
I’m not singling you out. I don’t know anything about you, so I have no reason to discriminate. This is my website, and I am making a polite request for you to stop the one-liner off-topic comments. If you check our posting guidelines you will see that they are non-negotiable. Rather than wave the flag of persecution, it would be easier if you just took it on board.
ruthlee says:
February 10, 2016 at 2:29 am
Hopefully this is not too off topic but I have a point to make. Yesterday the UK news reported for the first time a Catholic mass was heard at Hampton court palace since the break with the church in Henry 8th’s time. This is a big deal in England because of the schism in this country is all pervasive. I dropped into the conversation with hubby “do you think god maybe allowing this because of the churches repentance and financial recompense and the public apology they have made over the child abuse within their ranks?” Its a bit of a long shot but the point i’m making is that the catholic church have stepped up to the plate and said so publically so they can actually move forward whereas the Jehovah’s Witnesses deny all such claims and call such accusations “ridiculous” If god is not using any particular religion, but individuals, then if a religion cleans house he could motivate a positive response for worship whereas us who cry out for justice see our form of worship invalidated by the diseased head ie the Gb . Not until the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses publically, verbally. and in writing accept their Christian responsibility for their mistakes, errors and lies on the issue of child abuse, they will never be approved by God .God will never bless or validate any act of worship they direct. You cannot mock God.Ruthlee
Reply
ScotWm says:
February 11, 2016 at 12:48 am
ruthlee: The only defence the Governing Body has for not reporting child abuse is the “two witness” rule. Admitting this so called scriptural defence is wrong would be an admission that they protect pedophiles. I seriously doubt that they will ever back down on this doctrine.
However, some courts are not happy with the Watchtower’s Pedophile Protection Policies (PPP). Here’s a story of two elders who failed to report child abuse in their congregation: “They, and the congregation, now face a lawsuit from the Delaware attorney general accusing them of violating the state’s mandated (child sex abuse) reporting laws.” https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-fight-law-requiring-child-sex-abuse-be-reported-to-police/
The defendants also claim the elders were protected from having to report the abuse by a legal exemption for clergy. The court isn’t buying that defence either. The most interesting aspect of the case is that two elders and their congregation (not the Governing Body) are being prosecuted by a state agency.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 11, 2016 at 4:16 am
The Watchtower has never been one to apologize. When the various dates predicted for Armageddon failed, they turned around and blamed it on the rank on file members. So no surprise that they won’t apologize for their policies that have protected pedophiles and led to more child abuse.
WS
Reply
Winston Churchill says:
February 11, 2016 at 5:33 am
@Winston Smith. I was thinking along similar lines in regard to the organ transplants fiasco when from 1966 to 1980 it was regarded as cannibalism so no JW would dare to have one . Then 1980 it was suddenly alright . But no apologies to those who might have died for refusing a transplant & very upsetting for those family members who might have lost a beloved mother,father,son or daughter due to refusal of a kidney,heart,lung,etc
This is what I find disturbing in the 2016 Survey that 22% would stay with the religion even if it was untrue! Quite frightening especially when Jesus said ‘ The Truth will set you free’ so if those 22% found out the organisation was not the Truth then they cannot be set Free from false religion because those JWs are part of it.Absolutely crazy logic .
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 12, 2016 at 12:31 pm
Good points on organ transplants. That’s why when it comes to life or death decisions, each person must make up their own mind. They must not defer to another entity. Of course the organization would not have it that way. They must have complete control. Thus they have a lot of blood on their hands.
WS
Delishus says:
February 10, 2016 at 8:44 am
Hey Cedars, theres an issue on the first slide where you have to pick your Country. There is no Other button, so to be able to write on the Other space provided you have to select one of the other countries in order to write yours down. Im from the Caribbean, P.R. to be exact, so the options provided dont quite fit. I hope it can be fixed.
Reply
Cedars says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:25 am
I’ve just checked, and there is a text box below the options – “Other, please specify.”
Reply
Winston Churchill says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:31 am
@Cedars. It is encouraging only 50% are making donations which is good news & may go even lower next year with more investigations into the way the GB handle child abuse .
Reply
Winston Churchill says:
February 10, 2016 at 10:40 am
In the Survey the statistics that state 78% have known or heard of a JW involved in a suicide attempt is very disturbing. Maybe shunning has caused this by family members or never ending pressure to do more or The Paradise kept being postponed? Who Knows?
Reply
SIRIUS says:
February 10, 2016 at 9:25 pm
Re: 55% of voters say they have experienced financial disadvantage as a result of JW teachings on higher education
Keeping ‘em ignorant is a great tool and to me it’s a form of slavery. Sadly, a higher education could provide a higher level of critical thinking and assist in identifying flawed WT reasoning! My real concern is… are any GB family members or any of the hierarchy (i.e. Elders) sending their kids to college/university either to private or public institutions? The reasoning, “do as I say and not as I do”!
Any flies on the wall?
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
Average Joe says:
February 11, 2016 at 10:27 am
Hi Sirius,
I went to Uni. It was never discouraged in our congregation but most of our elders, when I was growing up, all had higher education. Great quality of assignments too, especially on the school. The large majority of us kids at least benefited from that training.
I realise that our cong was the exception that proves the rule. However, as a cong we didn’t take the literature as gospel, especially with all the American grammar and ideas. By the way, 3 out of the 5 elders had beards too (though they never got to give talks at the assemblies or in other congs).
Reply
SIRIUS says:
February 11, 2016 at 2:02 pm
@Average Joe, Thank you for your comments!
Interesting! Were you born to JW parents or a convert? Are you holding a position of authority within the congregation? And would you comment on the following?
You have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.—Matt. 11:25.
Of course, Jesus did not mean that his disciples were children in a literal sense. Rather, he knew that they seemed to be children compared to the intellectual and highly educated ones in the land, who were wise in their own eyes. More important, Jesus taught his followers to be like children, remaining humble and teachable. (Matt. 18:1-4) How did they benefit from being humble? By means of holy spirit, Jehovah helped them to grasp vital spiritual truths while the wise and intellectual ones, who scorned them, remained blinded by Satan and by their own pride. No wonder Jesus was so pleased! It made him happy to see the way Jehovah revealed deep spiritual truths to humble people of all sorts, regardless of their education or intellectual gifts. He was delighted that his Father approved of this way of teaching. w15 3/15 1:2, 3
An university degree is Satan’s blindness & the sin of pride?!!? How did the GB get “intellectual ones” to mean university educated?
BTW, I am no JW or will I ever be… my interest is purely research based (comparative) analysis.
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
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← The Friday Column: Watchtower and Dinosaurs
The Friday Column: The Blood Issue and Leukemia: One Man’s Story →
The 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses is launched!
avatar
Posted on February 8, 2016
More than 6,000 had their say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah's Witnesses
More than 6,000 had their say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses
You will all be pleased to know that the 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses was launched this weekend, and already has 124 responses.
To add your voice to the new survey, simply click on the “have your say” graphic at the top of the right-hand column (or click here).
Last year’s survey attracted a record 6,083 respondents, including 1,022 active Jehovah’s Witnesses, 145 serving elders (including 25 coordinators), 772 inactive ones, 1,706 faders, 1,461 disfellowshipped/disassociated ones, and 949 non-baptized voters (including 597 with JW relatives).
The data yielded from such impressive numbers was tremendous, and I will do my very best to get the results published earlier this time round – hopefully in the Spring.
A few quick stats for you:
◾67% of inactive voters said they would leave the organization if shunning were abolished
◾90% of disfellowshipped/disassociated ones say they are happier since leaving
◾66% of inactive/faded/former JWs were baptized at 17 or younger
◾Only 19% of inactive/faded/former JWs became Witnesses through the preaching work
◾27 elders say they are aware of pedophiles in their congregation
◾46% of active JW voters would either secretly or openly accept blood
◾13% of JW voters would allow their child to die for want of a blood transfusion
◾152 JW voters know of a fellow believer, or child of Witness parents, who has died from refusing blood
◾46 memorial partakers took our survey
◾77% of JW voters do not believe elders are appointed by holy spirit
◾58% of JW voters say they have never assisted anyone to baptism
◾Geoffrey Jackson is the most likeable GB member among JW voters
◾Anthony Morris is the least likeable GB member among JW voters
◾Sam Herd is considered the least controversial GB member among JW voters
◾Anthony Morris is considered the most controversial GB member by JW voters
◾50% of JW voters do not donate any money to Watchtower
◾10% of JW voters are happy for their donations to be spent in legal costs arising from sex abuse cases
◾22% of JW voters say that even if their religion were proven untrue, they would stick with it
◾78% of all voters have known or heard of a JW committing suicide
◾47% of all voters suffer from depression
◾766 say they suffer from depression but haven’t yet obtained professional help
◾1,123 voters say they have contemplated or attempted suicide as a result of their JW beliefs, or the prospect of shunning
◾907 voters say they have self-harmed as a JW
◾13.5% of voters were home-schooled as JWs
◾54% of voters say they were bullied at school as a result of their beliefs
◾55% of voters say they have experienced financial disadvantage as a result of JW teachings on higher education
◾113 voters say they are victims of child sex abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾58% of the 4,265 polled on their current beliefs expressed varying degrees of unbelief
◾The stigmatization of higher education continues to be the most-disliked Watchtower teaching
◾Only 136 out of 6,083 voters say they agree with all Watchtower teachings
I am sure, like me, you would consider some of those statistics as headlines in themselves, worthy of considerable press exposure. The fact that 27 out of 145 polled elders are aware of pedophiles within their congregation is nothing short of scandalous, as is the fact that our survey of over 6,000 current and former Witnesses yielded 113 professed victims of child sex abuse.
As shocking as these numbers are, I can only be grateful that we have this information at our disposal, and I am confident that our recently-expanded team at JWsurvey, temporarily under new management, will find time and opportunity to give these figures the exposure they deserve.
Meanwhile, I would like to thank each and every one of you who participated in last year’s survey, and I would urge all of you to do the same in 2016. By combining our voices on the harm being inflicted by Watchtower, we are no longer the silent majority.
new-cedars-signature3
Please note: a new feature of the new 2016 survey is the possibility of seeing the results at a glance once you’ve finished. However, I have already started getting feedback from people who are confused because they are seeing questions they weren’t asked. Please bear in mind that not every voter answers every question. For example, someone who is not an elder will not be asked questions for serving elders, and someone who has never been disfellowshipped will not be asked questions for those who are disfellowshipped, and so on. I may withdraw this feature if it ends up causing too much confusion, but for now I trust that many of you prefer to see how the survey is shaping up after you have taken it.
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← The Friday Column: Watchtower and Dinosaurs
The Friday Column: The Blood Issue and Leukemia: One Man’s Story →
176 Responses to The 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses is launched!
← Older Comments
Winston Churchill says:
February 11, 2016 at 12:09 am
Another fascinating point from the survey is 66% inactive,faded or former JWs were baptised at 17 or younger which shows that baptism at an early age does not work & all that creates are many many divided families because baptism has very very serious consequences if you are a JW because then the shunning of the person begins even from close family members which is devastatingly traumatic & creates a cycle of depression & suicidal tendencies.
I believe the GB think they are onto a winner by trapping people into baptism at an early age but I think it is backfiring by producing dysfunctional families & a lot of angry hurt ex JWs which makes them determined to bring this organisation down .
Reply
Cedars says:
February 11, 2016 at 1:44 am
The 2016 global survey is already a victim of its own success, and will be closed until March 5th. On our current subscription plan with surveymonkey we get a maximum 1,000 responses per month (which would be 12,000 per year). Considering our record for a year so far is just over 6,000, this isn’t normally a problem. But within a few days of launching the new survey we are already approaching the 1,000-mark. Hopefully I will soon be upgrading our subscription plan, but until then I appreciate your patience!
Reply
Tara says:
February 11, 2016 at 7:56 am
Wow! that is amazing. That in itself is a news worthy item. Just shows the amount of feeling out there towards the org. Both from within and from those formally associated. Word is spreading.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 11, 2016 at 8:20 am
Yes, it would be awesome if we could break 10,000 this year. It shows the level of dissatisfaction within the organization and the number of folks starting to wake up or at least realize that something is not right.
Still, even if we were to surpass 100,000 I don’t know if it would phase the governing body, wrapped in its cocoon of policies and elitism. And while Lloyd has an open offer to the GB engage in a healthy dialogue in regard to the survey, I don’t think that’s the main point of it all. I think the main point is raising awareness of the evils of this org and to give a voice to those it has tried to silence.
Cedars/Lloyd thanks for all your hard work in giving us this opportunity to be heard.
WS
Reply
Robert67 says:
February 11, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Just finished listening to the late podcast and remembered this being linked on a Spanish speaking forum. Perhaps the law firms and dates will narrow down your search.
The Associated Press
February 10, 1986, Monday, PM cycle HEADLINE:
Local Church Wins Fight With National Office
DATELINE: BONHAM, Texas
Members of a Jehovah’s Witness congregation have declared victory in their legal fight with the denomination’s national organization over ownership of a local church.
Justice of the Peace Don Jones ruled that leaders of the national group, the Watchtower Society, unlawfully changed locks andtook over the church.
The denomination, known for its door-to-door evangelism, has filed an an appeal of the ruling. The dispute centered on ownership of the Kingdom Hall and began last summer when Ralph Deal sent 14 letters to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in New York asking for answers to particular theological questions.
Deal testified that when he persisted with his questions, the Watchtower Society sent a committee to Bonham on July 14 to choose new officers for the church. The group changed locks on the church after the new officers were chosen.
Deal, along with Tony Jones, Wesley Ruddell and Tommy Johnson, were notified by letter that they had been “disfellowshipped”_ or dismissed for disciplinary reasons _ from the church. They filed suit to retain possession of Kingdom Hall.
The title to the property is filed with the county under “Trustees of the Bonham Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
After Friday’s ruling, lawyer David Mercot, representing the local church, said he thinks other individuals and congregations dissatisfied with the Watchtower Society will be encouraged to stand up.
“For 40 years or more, the Watchtower Society acted like the local congregations were their pawns while in public denying any hierarchy,” Mercot said.
The suit was filed because the local members were “rousted” from the church, Ruddell said. “We were intimidated to do exactly asthey said.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses was founded by Charles T. Russell in 1884. The denomination is distinguished by its belief that only 144,000 people will go to heaven.
Critics say defections from the denomination began after the world failed to end in 1975 as leaders had predicted. Other dates cited by church leaders included 1914, 1920, 1925 and 1938.
Official spokesmen for the denomination have declined to answer questions about the case.
Reply
Robert67 says:
February 11, 2016 at 2:38 pm
@Cedars
Recent letters on the matter in Spanish
http://www.extj.com/attachment.php?s=d2bdb97b3b3888c7f22daaa6c53301f3&attachmentid=16272&d=1454956717
http://www.extj.com/attachment.php?s=d2bdb97b3b3888c7f22daaa6c53301f3&attachmentid=16274&d=1454970650
http://www.extj.com/attachment.php?s=d2bdb97b3b3888c7f22daaa6c53301f3&attachmentid=16273&d=1454970518
Courtesy of the GBB
Goberning
Body
Bank
Reply
rob says:
February 11, 2016 at 10:29 am
I don’t believe anything short of a complete uprising within all of the congregations would catch the attention of the powers that be in New York.
They live a comfortable lifestyle, do not have to worry about money or the economy, the lawyers have protected them from any personal liability and therefore they appear to have cocooned themselves quite comfortably.
Does it really matter to them that out of 8 million, maybe 10,000 or 50,000 or 100,000 have woken up and have left? Apparently not. They still have lots of money in the bank, and still have witnesses that believe that they are God’s spokesmen and nothing has really changed- shunning still happens, higher education is still frowned upon and questioning the GB on anything is not tolerated.
The lawsuits will take years to figure out and with appeals etc, they could be dragged on for many many years.
In the meantime families are destroyed, and the rank and file simply keep on the hampster wheel and routine that is the everyday life of a witness.
I wish things were different and I could have back my relationships with my family, but the religion still trumps all.
Reply
Robert67 says:
February 11, 2016 at 10:54 am
Stay the course Rob
Yes this movement is not an outright destroyer of this cult, but it is making steady gains as time passes.
I wish I could show you pictures of my neighbors doors. I went to a sticker making website a few months ago and had a few hundred door stickers made with JW.org font instructing any witness to visit this site as well as jwfacts in order to prepare for the bible questions this house hold will have. I passed them out to all my neighbors sharing very crucial Australian royal commission and other pertinent WT facts with them and the danger this doomsday cult was to our community. I am very proud to say that I have successfully been able to convince 82 of my neighbors to place these on their front doors.
I live in a suburb outside of Chicago and have made it my life’s mission to protect people seeking Christ from this dangerous faith killing cult. I hope to soon grow the stones necessary to post a video of my local work.
If your truly worried about your family. I would recommend getting the truth about the “truth” to them indirectly by doing what you were trained to do so well. Go door to door in your best clothes and present yourself as a good neighbor and JW cult survivor. Explain some of the atrocities and anti biblical practices of this cult and how you’ve made these stickers in order to keep these brainwashed zombies away from their door and how together as a community you can keep them either out of the area or forced to confront facts about their cult.
This Saturday I will be visiting local churches and canvassing for possible volunteer ant JW activist. I truly hope this helps JW’s in my area start asking the important questions.
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kittycat says:
February 12, 2016 at 3:06 am
You are very brave. Thank you for standing up….it only takes one word or idea to start the awakening. Good luck.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 12, 2016 at 12:24 pm
@Robert67. Hi Robert. Your Ides are quite interest and energetic for sure I thought that you said you were still attending meetings and “active” in FS and I thought you said also you are a current Elder in the Chicago area? If that is correct how can you do these things that you speak about and not draw attention the Elders in yr congregation? We all know how the JW’s work They will gladly turn anyone in that they think is not following the rules.
If I did that in my area I would be spotted immediately and turned in to the JW police. Then as we all know a Tri would be set up and get DF’d ASAP. If you are doing that and still an active official JW that is quite amazing to me. Please share.
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Winston Smith says:
February 11, 2016 at 2:49 pm
The only thing that seems to phase the GB is noted drops in overall publishers. Back after the disappointment of ’75, they wouldn’t even comment on it until they saw two consecutive years of publisher drops.
Currently, some of larger publisher bases are fairly stagnant (e.g. the US), but the overall growth continues. I am not looking at actual numbers right now, but from memory the conversion-retention rate is about 2:1 a for every 2 converts made, they loose 1. I predict that eventually this will slow to 1:1 and could start to go the other direction. That will get them worried. But it may be a ways off.
WS
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Sliced says:
February 12, 2016 at 9:51 pm
Rob,
I totally get where you are coming from. I actually have felt like that many a day since I woke up. However, don’t give up… it takes time to chip away at something that seems so rock solid- but the day will come when the Watchtower will be fully exposed. Keep active and positive that one day other members of your family will wake up too. :)
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Robert67 says:
February 11, 2016 at 10:34 am
While we wait eagerly for the survey I have some food for thought.
As most all here would recognize in a heart beat what Matthew 24:45 means to this Cult and its doctrines, I was wondering about its wording as used by the WT.
This specific verse is, as the JWpodcast would describe a key piece of the Jenga puzzle that forms Watchtower doctrine.
Decades as a witness, 23 years as an elder, now mentally free for a few years and I had never stumbled across the way the Kings James Bible translates this verse.
King James Version says the following at Matthew 24:45
Who then is A faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Notice it doesn’t ask Who then is THE, but rather who is A faithful and wise servant
We all know for a fact that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Printing society take all sorts of liberties in misquoting and outright rewording Bible passages to harmonize their WT agendad Bibles with their brand. The way the Kings James Bible words Mathew 45:45 completely eradicates the notion that Christ left everything as pertains to Earth in charge of any specific human being or group of people.
Jwfacts under the subject Goberning body, makes it clear how even that phrase “Goberning body” or the notion of a centralized headquarters for Christians administrating Jesus affairs on Earth is extra biblical and completely fabricated by this cult, but somehow this interesting factoid on the Kings James version of Mathew 24:45 is missing from the article.
Would anyone here have any other source that could back the King James Version of Mathew 24:45 us of the word “A faithful slave” vs “The faithful space?
The Kings James version would lead us to understand that all Christ followers hold that position and are in charge of Christ message during their short time on this rock. I know which Bible passage I’ll be sharing next time I get a knock on my door.
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Winston Smith says:
February 11, 2016 at 11:55 am
@Robert67
Once I awoke and was able to read that scripture with an open mind, I found some new perspective on it as well. First of all, I found the Holman Christian Study Bible to be a pretty good translation and this is how it reads there: “Who then is a faithful and sensible slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give them food at the proper time?”
Something I realized is that the use of chapters and verses in the bible is somewhat arbitrary and can separate lines of thinking that really were part of one thought. Thus I propose that Matthew 24:45 through Matthew 25:46 are all part of the same line of reasoning with 4 parables about being ready for the return of Christ: the faithful and evil slaves; the wise and foolish virgins; the slaves and the talents; and the sheep and the goats. They are all the same lesson and all apply to individuals, not to any specially selected groups.
That’s my take on it.
WS
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Caroline says:
February 11, 2016 at 12:34 pm
@Robert67, here again is another example where the Watchtower took liberties and rewrote that part of the Bible for the New World Translation. In the King James Bible at Matthew 24:45-51, it says that if the faithful and wise servant turns into an evil slave that beats his fellow servants, then that evil slave will be cut asunder. How the Watchtower worded “cut asunder” in the K.J., the Watchtower put “punish him with the greatest severity” in the N.W.T. at Matthew 24:45-51.
The reason the Watchtower most likely changed those words is because people like to think of the Christian scriptures as not as violent as the Hebrew Scriptures. There can be no other reason for that change except they want people to think that Jesus wasn’t violent in his speech.
That same expression about the evil slave being “cut asunder” in the King James is repeated at Luke chapter 12 in the K.J. and the same expression “punished with the greatest severity” is also repeated in the New World Translation at Luke chapter 12.
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Robert67 says:
February 11, 2016 at 1:46 pm
Brings to mind the Genesis of all modern ex-Jw movement when Chris and Norma Sanchez of the Spanish translating commite uncovered the blatant liberties the watchtower took in outright rewording the bible to their own agenda. Their discovery of the 144,000 fabrication led to fantastic private Bible studies across Bethel, which eventually led to mass dissfelowshipping, which eventually put a Goberning Body member by the name of Raymond Franz out the door. Where the 607 b.c fabrication hit the awakened witness like a nuclear freedom bomb.
You will come to know the truth and the truth shall set you free-
Quoting Jesus at John 8:32 before the “faithful slave” has it removed like it did with most of this chapter of the Bible
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Lynda says:
February 11, 2016 at 10:25 pm
The Living Bible Matthew 24:45 reads : Are you A wise and faithful servant of the Lord? Have I given you the task of managing my household,to feed my children day by day?
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GEM says:
February 11, 2016 at 12:19 pm
@ Robert67: Could A faithful Slave be referring to the same boy of Older Men that met and penned what is now the book of Acts 15? and, interestingly, may Jesus have even been referring to….Himself?
Just curious
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A Patient Man says:
February 11, 2016 at 12:58 pm
While we are on the topic of the governing body taking on the role of the slave class I have a question I would like to ask. I wonder if any of the 15,000 partakers of the emblems were ask, “How did you personally feel when the title of Faithful and Discreet Slave was taken from you and given to a few?” The reason that I ask this question is my wife’s grandmother was of the anointed and she was a very outspoken, very strong woman. In fact her grandfather was Alexander Majors one of the founders of the original pony express. She comes from very tough stock, and had a very tough childhood traveling under harsh conditions to wind up in Kansas. If she were alive today and you tried to take something that was very important to her away from her you better put your PF Flyers on so you could get away quickly from her because she was coming after you. I know that current witnesses will tell you that the ones of that class would never do anything like that, or have a very adverse reaction to the title of Faithful Slave taken away from them, but are you sure about that? That would be a very intriguing conversation with them would it not? The next question I would be asking them is how in the world did the number go from 8,000 to 15,000? I have yet to hear an intelligent answer on that one.
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Pow says:
February 11, 2016 at 2:38 pm
Well to answer your question, a few years ago there was this huge party in heaven, there was a full bar, rock band and dancing, you know the works….unfortunately, about 8000 of the 138000 already in heaven got reassigned. .as in lost their spiritual virginity ….let that be a lesson. …anyway. soon after another 7783 vacancies were filled. ….
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Pow says:
February 11, 2016 at 2:55 pm
Actually, to be serious for a minute. ..what happens at bethel is a reflection of what’s happening in heaven. ..turns out,, that with computers and the Internet, ,they don’t need 144k anymore,….So, the heavenly class has been downsized to 1000, and may even be reduced even further. …all these ones who think there of the anointed are really gonna be pissed when they find themselves doing dead body clean up on this fried earth.
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Winston Churchill says:
February 12, 2016 at 12:28 am
@Cedars. Not only is the Survey proving more& more popular but also your YOU TUBE channel has over 6000 subscribers & increasing daily which goes to show more& more thinking witnesses are waking up & enjoy logical reasoning about the falseness of the organisation.
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Raymond says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:43 am
Says survey is closed. Said same yesterday. I tried both the ad on the side of the article and the link within the article. Is there another link I should try?
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Cedars says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:44 am
Hi Raymond. Please scroll up the comments. Unfortunately I have had to temporarily pause the survey until March 5th.
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Sliced says:
February 12, 2016 at 9:47 pm
I am anxiously awaiting! Looking forward to taking the next survey. Thanks for making them and for this site! I am not kidding when I tell you that your particular line of reasoning (in your articles and videos) played a key role in keeping me awake! I had woken up from our own (or should I say WT own material) and stayed in a bit of denial over it for a good while. I am slowly but surely getting stronger each day! (Like learning to walk for the first time) Just wanted you to know how much of a POSITIVE IMPACT this site and your videos are having- and I know there are many who are afraid to post anything on here- so I will speak for them too- and say THANK YOU!! Keep up this fight!
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Raymond says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:48 am
Ignore me, just saw the post indicating the problem. Will check back next month.
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Malachi says:
February 12, 2016 at 3:17 pm
Congrats on overrunning your SurveyMonkey limit. All good news!
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Folino says:
February 15, 2016 at 8:38 am
This is an amazing site!! Wish I had something like this 30 yrs. Ago when I was trying to find correct words to express my thoughts in why a person would deny intelligent thoughts. And blindly follow “GB”! As of novemember 1998 I formally gathered the courage to disassociate myself from Jw’s. Knowing that decision would come with heavy price tag! Aka…loss of parents, life long friends and children. It was worth paying that price!! Please keep up fine research and postings.
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Winston Smith says:
February 16, 2016 at 4:18 pm
A heavy price indeed! But in the big picture, no price is really too much to gain your freedom. To live a life enslaved to the trickery of conceded men, full of their own self-importance, is really no life at all. You had the courage to stand up for your true self – that is admirable.
WS
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Luke says:
February 15, 2016 at 3:59 pm
It says it is closed. I really want to do it. Thanks please advice.
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Winston Smith says:
February 16, 2016 at 4:19 pm
Luke,
See comment from Cedars above – the survey will reopen March 5th.
WS
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Idontknowhatodo says:
February 16, 2016 at 4:20 am
Please say Lloyd you are going to reply to the Garlic Bread February Broadcast….I know its off topic but I just watched the rubbish….and know people are really going to take this all in!
Reply
Tara says:
February 16, 2016 at 5:39 pm
My daughter went to the last meeting because her friend asked her to. She said she was ‘love bombed’ by many but hounded straight away by elders who either wanted to know where she had been, how disappointed they are in her or they just sat and glared at her from across the hall. I’m so glad I have not been for weeks. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that.
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Peter the Digger says:
February 22, 2016 at 7:33 am
Had an absolutely shocking experience with the JWs end November. My elderly aunt, aged 91, who has been a JW since 1978, and has depression and is on meds for it, decided to ask her GP for a new drug – this didn’t agree with her and she had a severe ‘cold turkey’ reaction whilst she got ‘off’ the new meds and back on the old drug. This cold turkey lasted some 5 weeks, and we had to stay with her 24/7 in Durham (we live 200 miles away in Nottinghamshire). During that 5 weeks not ONE elder phoned or called, not ONE get well card (from the JWs), she got 2 from non-witness friends. She lives 200yds from K Hall, and many elders live within 2 miles of her in a small town. Only JWs who EVER call are 2 or 3 similarly aged Sis’s in their 80s, 90s, who of course just call each other to moan about their aches and pains, we know this as we spend several days a month up there with her and talk to her every day on the phone (there’s worse to come in this story). One day my aunt was refusing to eat properly, despite appetising meals prepared (depression thing) and a bible study woman she knows called and my aunt said, under withdrawal/cold turkey, ‘they’re hurting me’ (false of course). BS woman then calls congregation overseer, in his 60s, fit with car, who, like the other elders NEVER calls, visits, sends a card, let alone offer to help with shopping – I also know another elderly Sis from that congregation who died all alone in a horrible nursing home going do-lally whilst nobody ever visited. Anyway this Cong O then called Social Services (Jeremy Kyle style, and the next we knew was a nice lady from S S rang the doorbell – of course we said come in, she could se the place was lovely, warm, we were looking after my aunt well. The S S lady then said, I hope JWs dpn’t call on me (she had been dragged out on a Friday afternoon) because I think the C O is terrible).
PS since then absolutely NO call, visit, from this C O who was so ‘worried’ he called the S S), or from any other elderl inc one who literally lives 50 yards from my aunt’s front door and passes it every day to go shopping etc.
The Christian Love of the JWs, is really marvellous, you hear about it all the time – you just never see of feel it.
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Winston Smith says:
February 22, 2016 at 9:31 am
@Peter
The GB keeps the rank and file so busy with seeking out new converts (and puts them on a major guilt trip if they fail to do so) that they fail to perform the basic acts of Christian kindness. Meetings mid-week and Sunday, then service Saturday and Sunday, plus studying and reading all the material. Not to mention that since higher education is forbidden, they probably have to work like crazy just to scrape by. And for elders it’s worse cause you have all the parts to prepare and all the extra “training” (aka indoctrination). The one thing I always felt as an elder is that there was never time to shepherd (truly care for) the sheep. But we always found time to discipline. How sad.
WS
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Peter the Digger says:
February 22, 2016 at 10:26 am
WS – totally agree – and one other factor (as well as no HE etc.) – the JWs insistence on ‘dress and grooming’ 9actually this vile phrase is borrowed from 1960s US marketing courses). So (aside from what you note) it’s also time consuming and tedious for the men to have to put on suit, polish shoes etc – and of course the women have to spend even more time dolling up. The ‘no trousers’ rule is bad for older women with veins on their legs, who would be much more comfy in trousers. What’s wrong, peverse, with that – the skirt or trouser has never been sex-specific in history or today, look at Arabs, Eskimo, Burmese, and in Roman times men wore ‘dresses’ and women wore ‘trousers’ (panatallons, or ‘feminalia’. So dressing up in uncomfortable gear stops JWs having a relaxed friendlt attitude, maybe what the GB actually really want of course.
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Peter the Digger says:
February 22, 2016 at 12:09 pm
And PS, how much time does it take to do a quick phone call? if you’re going to the shops anyway, how much time to pick up an older Sis? How much time to write a quick get well card? Now….if there was a space on the monthly witnessing card for ‘Old Biddy Visits’…….
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Rosie says:
February 24, 2016 at 6:16 am
Peter, I understand your sentiments exactly.
Several older members of my family have been very ill over the past years. It was left to the non-JW members of the family to show compassion and care for them while active JW family and “brothers and sisters” from the congregation stopped bothering with them completely.
Of course those active JWs are quite happy to condemn the non-JW family members and tear their characters to shreds. (That is if they even bother to remember their existence.)
Sadly the virtues of empathy, compassion, care and unconditional love are disconnected when people become JWs and their minds are controlled by this Cult.
amanda zeniou says:
February 23, 2016 at 8:45 pm
I too was raised as a jehovah witness from age 8. From the day the religion was presented to me, my life was never then same. From that time I was instilled with the terrifying fear of Armageddon and was told I had to believe without question the doctrine. I was so frightened the only way I could survive and protect myself was to build a wall of inner anger. The hate messages that were served out in the meetings made it easy to judge and it became us (jehovah witnesses) and then the world. I witnessed the pain of 3 family friends commit suicide within our congregation, many of the teenage girls in our congregation ended up with serious life long auto immune diseases which I believe was caused by the stress, judgment and fear of what we were being taught. Our bodies became at dis- ease. Countless people suffered severe depression which we were told was because it was the end of time. The end of this evil system was coming at any moment like a thief in the night. I left home at 16 because deep in my heart I knew it was not right. My family shunned me and I have always felt looked down upon from them. But I am a survivor and I have been on a spiritual journey ever since. I am determined to find the truth and introducing the power of Jesus into my heart and soul was a defining physical experience. My body was pumped full of the energy of God and from that day on my real journey began. I will never allow any religion to control me or my family again. We were created in love and Jesus gave us 2 commandments. Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. From there the rest will follow. This last few days have been the first time I have ever read information or utubed anything about jehovah witnesses. I was made to feel like I made up these experiences and no one else in my family or within my witness friends felt like that. I felt alone. Since leaving the jws, i have suffered depression. But what I have watched tjis past few days has hit every nail on the head and I cannot believe that the religion was really like that… The devil in sheep’s clothing. God is love, not judgment. He loves all of us and would never strike us down because we make mistakes, as we are humans beings and none of us are perfect. Our creator is kind, beautiful and forgiving. I now can have the deep intimate relationship I so deeply desire from inside every part of my being.
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← The 2016 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses is launched!
Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you →
The Friday Column: The Blood Issue and Leukemia: One Man’s Story
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Posted on February 12, 2016
donaldToday would have been my brother’s fifty-eighth birthday. My brother, Donald, died ten days before turning twenty-eight. He was diagnosed with Acute Myelogenous Leukemia (AML) on December 11th, 1985 and died on February 2nd, 1986.
A diagnosis of AML, for a faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses, is a death sentence. Leukemia is cancer of the blood and the main treatment for AML is a bone marrow transplant and blood transfusions. Donald was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He was a Ministerial Servant, well on his way to becoming an elder. As one who believed Watchtower doctrine, he would not consider a bone marrow transplant or blood transfusions, even when faced with a terminal diagnosis. His physicians told him that without treatment, he could expect to die within one to six weeks.
Although bone marrow transplants were once forbidden, in the Watchtower magazine’s March 15th, 1980 edition, there was a reversal in their position regarding organ transplants. Bone marrow transplants are placed in this category, so you would think it is allowed. However, in order to assure that a patient’s body will be strong enough to receive a bone marrow transplant, many pints of blood are transfused into a patient’s body prior to receiving a bone marrow transplant. Therefore, Jehovah’s Witnesses will refuse a bone marrow transplant.
Watchtower’s blood stance has evolved through the decades. In recent years, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been told that they can receive “blood fractions” as a matter of conscience. Although this new change of position would not have helped my brother (as he needed whole blood), it matters to those whose family members died before these changes were implemented. The Watchtower’s current stance on whole blood and blood components is complicated and somewhat nonsensical. I will provide links to websites devoted to that subject at the end of this article*.
Before you read my brother’s story, it will help you to know that he was the only one in my family who was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He became a Witness at age twenty, along with his wife.
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The day his fate was sealed. Donald, holding a towel, moments after his baptism. A crowd of Jehovah’s Witnesses greets him.
He was not raised as a Witness and our parents were not Witnesses. I studied and attended the Kingdom Hall for eleven years (even after his death), but was never baptized.
A few months before his terminal diagnosis.
A few months before his terminal diagnosis.
I’m not sure why he looks so serious in this picture! What I notice most in this picture is how colorful he looks. His lips are a healthy shade of pink and his cheeks and nose have color to them. Months later, his face was extremely pale and his lips were completely white.
Donald’s Diagnosis
Like many Jehovah’s Witness parents, my brother and his wife home-schooled their kids. In the autumn of 1985, they drove from their home in Florida to Arizona. They called their adventure a “field trip” and my brother sent postcards to me and my mother while he traveled. In a few of his messages, he mentioned having a cold that would not go away. He visited a physician in Arizona and was told that he had pleurisy. The physician gave him medicine and suggested that he cut his trip short.
He and his wife, Carole, traveled back to their home in Florida. By the time they got home, he was feeling much worse. He was so short-of-breath, he couldn’t complete a sentence in one breath. Every three words or so, he would need to inhale. He went to see his physician in December 1985 and learned that he did not have pleurisy. Bloodwork and a bone marrow biopsy revealed that Donald had tons of immature white blood cells (leukocytes) that were interfering with his bone marrow’s ability to produce normal red blood cells. His red blood cells were misshapen (not round) and were not able to do their job of transporting oxygen. His bone marrow was full of these immature white blood cells and misshapen red blood cells. That was the reason he felt so sick and was having trouble catching his breath. In order to live, he needed to have his bone marrow replaced.
Prognosis: One to Six Weeks
On December 11th, 1985, I was at home in Connecticut. I just got home from the library when my father told me to call my sister-in-law Carole. When I called her, she told me that I needed to fly to Florida as soon as possible. She explained the situation to me and said that the doctor told her that my brother might die within one week. Just in case he was going to die that quickly, my father bought tickets for my mother, me and my brother Mike to fly down to Florida. My father chose to stay home because he couldn’t believe that Donald was really going to die. He didn’t think anyone was lying. He just couldn’t grasp that it was really happening.
The next day, I was sitting on a plane with my mother and brother Mike. The plane was filled to capacity and I felt claustrophobic. I closed my eyes to escape my surroundings, but I couldn’t escape my thoughts. I kept trying to imagine what Donald would look like when I finally got to see him. I envisioned walking into his bedroom and seeing him looking ashen, with a gray face. All of a sudden, I felt like I had to vomit. My brother Mike held the bag (those bags on an airplane that you think you will never need.) Mike held my hair back with one hand and held the bag with his other hand. I never felt his love for me as strongly as I did in those moments. We were both scared about what we would face when we got to Donald’s house.
When we finally got to his house, a lady came out onto the porch and told us to wait. She was the wife of an elder who was “visiting” Donald.
One-by-one, my sister-in-law, Carole, let us go into Donald’s bedroom. My mother went first, then Mike, then me. Carole didn’t let us all go in at once because she thought Donald would try to talk and might get out-of-breath. When I saw him, I made the following observations: he was wrapped in a sheet; his lips were completely white and he was breathing like a rabbit—rapid and shallow breaths. (Later on, I tried to mimic his breathing to see what it felt like and I immediately became dizzy. I couldn’t even do it for one minute.)
I asked him why he had a sheet wrapped around him. He said, “My skin hurts.” The skin on his entire body hurt. Can you imagine?
In this picture, you can see how pale Donald’s lips were and, of course, he was wrapped in a sheet. Though he knew he was dying, he still found reasons to laugh and smile
In this picture, you can see how pale Donald’s lips were and, of course, he was wrapped in a sheet. Though he knew he was dying, he still found reasons to laugh and smile
Donald wore sunglasses a few days before his death, as his eyes became sensitive to light. Here he is drinking beet juice while his exhausted wife, Carole, sits beside him on the bed
Donald wore sunglasses a few days before his death, as his eyes became sensitive to light. Here he is drinking beet juice while his exhausted wife, Carole, sits beside him on the bed
Elders Hovering Around the Room
Three elders were in Donald’s bedroom during the day. They stayed for hours and came back day-after-day. They actually took shifts so that my brother was never alone with me, my brother Mike or my mother. Looking back, I believe it is because the elders knew we were not Jehovah’s Witnesses. They must have thought we would try to talk Donald into receiving a blood transfusion and bone marrow transplant.
After five days of having these strangers hovering around Donald, I had enough. I asked them to go home. I told them that my time with Donald was limited and I wanted them to give us time to be a family. Thankfully, the elders respected my wishes and left. I was only able to be in Florida for one week, so by the time the elders finally went home, I only had two full days to spend with Donald.
A few years later, the Watchtower implemented “Hospital Liaison Committees”. However, in late 1985-early 1986, the HLC didn’t exist yet. Instead, the three elders in my brother’s bedroom were serving in that capacity under the guise of having a “Bible Study” with him. I could hear them reading scriptures to Donald, mostly about “keeping his eyes on the prize”.
Donald did not want to die, but he also did not want to “betray Jehovah” by receiving a blood transfusion or a bone marrow transplant. His wife, Carole, read about nutritional supplementation that would build up the iron in his blood. She began to make juice out of beet roots and leaves. She also crushed various herbs and put them into oatmeal for him to ingest. (You can see the beet juice and pink oatmeal in the image of him wrapped in a sheet).
The Nights Spent Holding My Hand
At night, while everyone was sleeping, I stayed awake all through the night. I lay on the floor beside his bed. He would put his hand over the edge of his bed and I would reach up and hold it. While we were holding hands, he would watch “Cheers” and “The Three Stooges” on video tape. He also watched episodes of “I Love Lucy”. He told me that he wanted to watch things that made him laugh.
One night, while we were watching “The Three Stooges”, I fell asleep and my hand let go of his hand. All of a sudden, I heard him say “Karen!” really loud. (Keep in mind, he had been whispering and breathing shallow for a week). I woke up in a panic! Donald explained to me that the reason he wanted me to hold his hand all night was because he wanted someone to be awake in case he died. He didn’t want to die in the middle of the night, all alone, while everyone slept.
It was at that moment when I realized just how important my presence was to him. Another thing that made me feel special was that I was the only person (besides Carole) that he felt comfortable having empty his urinal. It may seem trivial (and maybe even gross), but I felt honored that he chose me to hold his hand in the middle of the night and to empty his urinal. As I write this, I still feel honored.
Typing His Assigned “Blood Talk”
Donald was a Ministerial Servant. He was eager to become an elder, so he was thrilled when he was assigned to give a talk. It was assigned to him before he felt sick. The topic: “Why it is better NOT to have a blood transfusion”. When he became sick and his skin hurt, he still continued to type his talk. He began working on it before he felt sick and was determined to finish it before he died. During the time I was with him in Florida, he typed until his finger pads hurt. I offered to type, but he said that he must do it. He wanted to finish the task. He was using a manual typewriter, so it required pushing down hard on the keys. He told me that he preferred typing instead of writing because his vision was getting blurry.
My mother, my brother Mike and I eventually had to go back to Connecticut. Donald kept in touch with us through typed letters. Last night, as I prepared the images to go along with this article, I found the last note my brother ever typed to my mother. He died ten days after my mother received this note in the mail.
Here is page one:
Even though he had less than two weeks to live, he was making jokes! “You’d think I was sick or something! I really look bad!!"
Even though he had less than two weeks to live, he was making jokes! “You’d think I was sick or something! I really look bad!!”
Here is page two:
We went to Ponderosa and I had salad bar, grilled halibut (mmm…) and baked potato. I got real tired though. As soon as I got home, I stripped and crawled into bed for a nap. It was worth it and I had a good time
We went to Ponderosa and I had salad bar, grilled halibut (mmm…) and baked potato. I got real tired though. As soon as I got home, I stripped and crawled into bed for a nap. It was worth it and I had a good time
Going out to eat was a huge ordeal since the clothes against his skin caused him a lot of pain. Walking, even a few steps, made him get out of breath. Chewing, swallowing and digesting food requires a lot of energy so going out to eat was a huge ordeal. Since his blood was not delivering adequate amounts of oxygen to his organs, it must have been completely exhausting. Yet, in his final note to my mother, he tells her that it was worth it.
Throughout his illness and six weeks of suffering, he never lost his sense of humor or his gratitude. I asked him how he felt about dying. He said to me, “Don’t feel bad for me. I have the easy part. All I have to do is go to sleep. Then I get to wake up in the New System.”
Although he was speaking as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, his peace of mind was incredible to me. I was so amazed by his attitude toward his impending death that I became a hospice nurse a few years later.
My brother continued to lose his vision and eventually wasn’t able to type or write. However, he did manage to finish his “blood talk” before he died.
My brother died sitting up in bed. He was leaning against his wife, Carole, and kept saying, “I’m going to die today.” Carole said, “Don’t say that. You will be fine. We’re going to get through this.” Then he said, “I can’t see.” Carole told me that Donald didn’t speak for another ten minutes.
Then, Donald said, “I’ll see you when I wake up.” Those were his last words.
As we know, Donald believed that when he died, he would be asleep in his grave. He believed that he would wake up in the New System. To anyone else, his last words would make no sense. However, to any Jehovah’s Witness, it makes perfect (although misguided) sense.
Watchtower, January 1, 2014, pages 6-7
Watchtower, January 1, 2014, pages 6-7
After Donald’s Death
Donald and his wife celebrated their wedding anniversary on January 27th. He was able to sit up and eat a piece of fish. On February 2nd, 1986, he died sitting up next to his wife (as I described above).
On February 5th, 1986, one of the brothers at the Largo North (Florida) congregation read Donald’s talk on behalf of Donald. I have a cassette recording of the talk. I can’t bring myself to listen to it because the “Brother” begins the talk by describing how Donald was a ‘martyr’ and that it was no coincidence that my brother was assigned this talk. The “Brother” implied that my brother getting leukemia and dying after refusing treatment only made the talk that much more meaningful.
On February 7th, 1986 the Largo North congregation held a memorial for Donald. My family was in Connecticut, so my sister-in-law made sure we received a recording of the talk. On the outside of the cassette, the words “196 in attendance” are written. I have only heard the tape one time. A different “Brother” gave his memorial talk. That “Brother” also referred to Donald as a martyr.
My brother was not a martyr. He was a card-carrying victim.
This card represents a death sentence
This card represents a death sentence
I understand that my express refusal of allogenic blood or primary blood components will be regarded as absolute and will NOT be over-ridden in ANY circumstance by a purported consent of a relative or other person or body
I understand that my express refusal of allogenic blood or primary blood components will be regarded as absolute and will NOT be over-ridden in ANY circumstance by a purported consent of a relative or other person or body
(Source for images 7 and 8: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/publications/docs/jehovahs_witness.html/@@download/pdffile/Jehovah’s%20Witnesses.pdf)
In the September 15, 2015 Watchtower magazine, the following can be found on pages 9 – 10:
Source of photo: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015682
Source of photo: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015682
Conclusion
Thirty years after my brother’s death, Jehovah’s Witnesses are still instructed to refuse blood transfusions. My brother is just one of thousands who have lost their lives due to this doctrine.
Today, February 12, 2016, my brother will not get to turn fifty-eight years old.
karenne
*For further information on this story and other matters of interest Jehovah’s Witnesses who wish to be set free from the Watchtower religion, please visit Karenne’s website at:
http://jwchoices.org/2016/02/12/the-irony-of-a-newborns-blood-transfusion/
* JW Facts: “Jehovah’s Witnesses and Blood Transfusions”
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php
* AJWRB: “Watchtower Approved Blood Transfusions”
http://ajwrb.org/watchtower-approved-blood-transfusions
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73 Responses to The Friday Column: The Blood Issue and Leukemia: One Man’s Story
Paul says:
February 12, 2016 at 12:40 pm
Beautifully written Karenne.
The utter folly and conceit of The Watchtower is heartbreaking.
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Peggy says:
February 12, 2016 at 1:07 pm
Karenne,
I can not imagine what you went through. I am so sorry you lost your brother. This Watchtower doctrine prohibiting blood transfusions has cost so many lives. When I was a kid I used to be so afraid of getting sick and needing blood. I knew my parents would let me die. They would have told me I would just go to sleep and wake up in paradise. Believe me I know many who died refusing this life saving medical treatment. When I was fading a few years ago, I needed surgery. I decided not to tell any of the elders. I signed my hospital consent to have a blood transfusion if necessary. It felt so very strange. But, I wasn’t about to die, and leave my kids with out a mom. I wish those elders would have given you more time alone with your brother. It angers me. It is not right. Thank you for this article. I hope it will help someone to see the senseless waste of precious life.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
February 14, 2016 at 5:05 am
Me too Peggy…I lived in fear of nosebleeds and any cut or accident because I knew my parents would have let me die…to me that in itself is child abuse ….and living in a home where you were loved…but on condition that you obeyed the rules and realised you were subject to the rules under all circumstances…Im bitter towards my parents… one has passed away and one is mentally ill and left poor by the decisions she made to stay faithful…Karenne’s story has actually left me heartbroken it is sad beyond belief…what a waste of a wonderful man.
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smmcroberts says:
February 12, 2016 at 1:28 pm
Thank you, Karenne, for sharing your brother’s story. Maybe it will help others to see the senseless folly of the Watchtower’s blood policy.
Here is another link: to a series of articles on JWB showing how baseless and stupid the ‘no blood’ policy really is: http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/blood-transfusions/why-jehovahs-witnesses-dont-accept-blood/
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Winston Churchill says:
February 12, 2016 at 1:58 pm
Karen . My heart goes out to you. Thank you for writing this . You are a brave,kind & warm person .
What is so annoying is before 2000 Hemoglobin which is a fraction ( a flipping big fraction)was prohibited which is 33% of Red blood but now after year 2000 it is allowed by the GB . I said to an Elder ‘thank goodness for worldly people for donating blood as that is the only way JWs can get fractions .
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ScotWm says:
February 12, 2016 at 9:44 pm
Winston Churchill: Not being able to donate blood, yet being able to accept blood fractions does seem like a conflict of interests.
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Ejecting to Sanity says:
February 13, 2016 at 10:38 pm
I’ve got to remember that one!
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Tara says:
February 14, 2016 at 8:14 am
Yes that does make you stop and think doesn’t it. What was the reaction WC? ……. oh dear that sounds like I am calling you a water closet/toilet lol.
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Chiafade says:
February 12, 2016 at 2:03 pm
The fact that no apology was ever uttered in print or verbally for their stubborn stance on blood fractions and organ transplants for years is appalling. The fact that it makes no sense is even worse.
I remember a brother calling me and asking what they should do about a pioneer who donated blood because she needed money. At the time I said “I don’t think you should do anything”. Naturally like anything that they aren’t sure of they called the branch office. They told that body of elders that donating blood is an act of disassociation. I didn’t want to hear anymore after that. It’s like they want you to play this game to see which step you take actually leads into a bottomless pit.
It is inexcusably ignorant to make someone accountable even for just donating blood. It as if they are unaware that the blood fractions they depend on comes from ACTUAL DONATED BLOOD. No blood equals no blood fractions which makes the whole thing incredibly stupid. But that’s day to day operations at Watchtower.
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Bright Lightbulb says:
February 13, 2016 at 12:56 pm
The bloodguilt on the account of the GB must be massive. So sad and inexcusable.
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Matthew P says:
February 12, 2016 at 2:08 pm
Karenne, thanks for sharing Donald’s story with us. I found it beautifully written and incredibly moving.
Thank you.
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Vox Populi says:
February 12, 2016 at 2:21 pm
This is so tragic. As others have mentioned, thank you for sharing Donald’s story.
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Leesa says:
February 12, 2016 at 3:45 pm
Watchtower demands complete obedience to its morally/ethically and medically faulty no blood doctrine. I thought you treated your brother Donald’s story with much respect and love. These stories need to be out there in the public domain. Thankyou for a well written article.
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Terry Statton says:
February 12, 2016 at 4:07 pm
This is a disgusting cult. I know because my 2 brothers and I spent our entire childhood under Watchtower fear as our mother was under their mind control.
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Eric Arthur Blair says:
February 12, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Thank you for this article Karenne, I really appreciate your courage and I’m sorry for your pain.
Ten years ago my youngest some was born with a congenital heart condition that usually required open heart surgery in the first 3-6 months. It was diagnosed in utero and, before he was born, we had to negotiate with the director of the Royal Children’s Hospital here in Melbourne (Australia), who is a world class heart surgeon, to ensure the surgery could be performed without blood. It was a very confronting situation and he would not acquiesce to our beliefs other than to say that if our child made it to 10 months old they would perform the operation without blood anyway, as that was their policy when weighing up the risks of blood transfusions with the benefits. It meant we had to face risking him dying from his condition before the 10 month mark by refusing surgery, or accepting blood and offending Jehovah. I remember praying at the time, “please Jehovah, don’t let me have to make that choice.”
Fortunately, he made it to 18 months before he needed the surgery (a rare case with his condition) and the whole thing was performed without blood. Of course, at the time I saw it as an answer to my prayer, now I just see it as good fortune and I am grateful to the medical community, particularly the aforementioned surgeon, as well as his cardiologist, for their professionalism and for saving our son’s life. It frightens me to think that Watchtower might have robbed us of that if we had been forced into that choice, and now that my wife and I are completely faded, having realised that this is not “the truth” after all, I would be living with that regret now too. As it is, we have a healthy, happy, delightful 10 year old boy who lights up our life every day. And he has never looked back. The only evidence that he ever had a heart condition is the scar on his chest.
In a strange way though, this is one of the many things along the way that led to my awakening. The lasting legacy of that experience was the lack of love and support we received from our “brothers and sisters.” Despite being an MS at the time (and soon after appointed as an elder, largely as a consequence of the “faith” we had shown) we didn’t receive one visit the whole week our child was in intensive care – from any elder or any of our “friends.” While my wife and I kept a bedside vigil and juggled the care of our other son, 2 years old at the time, between us (we had no family who could help,) we didn’t get a shepherding call or anything. The only person who dropped by to offer us comfort from the scriptures was the hospital chaplain! It was the same the week our son was born – although he was only given a 50/50 chance of surviving birth, and despite the hospital being in the next territory to our congregation, and despite all the hard work, hospitality and generosity we had shown in the congregation over many years, there was nobody there to support us when we a faced a crisis.
It really bothered me at the time, but I pressed on believing this still to be the truth and putting all that down to human imperfection. However, I wasn’t an elder long before I started to realise the real truth about the watchtower society, and within two years of my appointment I was deleted for speaking out about the child abuse policy, amongst many other things that were just plain wrong. It was an agonising time, and I floundered for the next five years before finally cutting ties last year once and for all. I felt like I had come out of a long dark tunnel, and I am still adjusting to the light! Mostly I am grateful that we have our son and the sanity of the medical community prevailed over my cult indoctrinated mindset.
On reflection it is a good reminder to me that the cult undoes itself at times. I kept thinking of John 13:34,35 and saying to my wife ” I just don’t see it.” But it’s also a reminder of how strong the indoctrination is and how hard it is to break through that mindset. Articles like this help, thank you again Karenne.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 13, 2016 at 2:51 am
@Eric Arthur Blair.
I to lived in fear that my kids might need a blood transfusion and I did have the strength to let them die for the teachings of the WT.I prayed I never had to face it .I do not know what I would have done.I am so glad to be out of the cult and use common scientific medical sense and make my own medical decisions. One Brother was distraught one time and very depressed. I talked with him and he had 2 young girls and he said he had been doing a lot of thinking and said if his kids needed a blood transfusion he could not let them die.
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Winston Smith says:
February 13, 2016 at 6:14 am
When under the Watchtower’s control an already stressful and frightening medical situation becomes even more horrifying. It puts parents at odds with the doctors that are trying to save your child’s life. Fortunately, here in the States the hospitals have gotten quite good at getting a court order to force a transfusion for children in only a matter of hours. I find most witness parents are simply relieved when this happens as the matter is out of their hands and they are not forced to make a horrible decision.
I knew a witness couple whose young son was diagnosed with leukemia. The hospital simply got a court order and the little boy responded to treatment and fully recovered. The HLC simply accepted it as a matter of fact when the court order was given. A while back the father gave me some grief because he found out I had stopped attending meetings. I wanted to bring up that if he been allowed to follow this organization without the government’s intervention, his little boy would be dead, but I just didn’t have the heart to say that to him. But it’s amazing how people who are still under the control of this cult simply don’t see the connection.
WS
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Karenne Gionet says:
February 13, 2016 at 6:50 am
In that circumstance, I would also have been tempted to remind this parent of what would have happened if the court order hadn’t been put in place for his child. I agree that most JW parents hope that a hospital will get a court order so their child can receive treatment without the parents having to voice their desire to go against Watchtower doctrine.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 13, 2016 at 11:29 am
@WS. I don’t think most JW’s know what they re signing up for when they become JW’s. Especially new ones. Born ins know it to a larger degree but then when they are faced with a life or death situation it starts to become reality that they might b in a dictatorial Cult. Unfortunately too many have lost their lives over this archaic unscriptural policy.How about those that refused to have a needed organ transplant and now are long dead. How about those who refused a simple vaccine bc of WT teaching and now maybe have polio or some other disease or something else. TH WT is not a Medical institution and they do not know jack Squat! They ruin so many lives with this nonsense and other things. The list goes on. So glad to be out. The wife is still in BIG time and a true WT Fanatic and has caused tremendous marital issues. She even had an Elder sign her blood card and make him POA over me! That hurt but I guess she figured I would not honor her request for no Blood even in the face of death. Another reason we are no longer living together.
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Winston Smith says:
February 13, 2016 at 3:17 pm
To a born-in JW (as I was) the concept of accepting a blood transfusion was absolutely foreign to the mind. This stand is indoctrinated on you from the time you are very young. You are taught to look at doctors as if they have some evil intention to violate you with a blood transfusion almost on par with rape.
Then there is the pseudo-science in the Watchtower magazine and brochures like “How Can Blood Save Your Life” which upon critical review are simply full of fallacies. There certainly are risks associated with blood transfusions. But good doctors are willing to help patients weigh those risks against the risk of not transfusing.
WS
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Jarred Booth says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:09 pm
An Australian man, James Harrison, who himself was saved at age 14 by a blood transfusion, has donated blood plasma over 1,000 times and saved an estimated 2.4 million unborn babies due to the discovery of strong antibodies in his blood. Posted a video about it on my Youtube channel.
Unbelievable that the GB still can’t see the clear distinction between eating blood as part of your daily meals and receiving blood into your veins during a life-saving medical procedure. How incompetent can they possibly be?
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Tara says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:15 pm
Thank you Karenne. That took enormous courage to write. I send you my love and respect.
I removed my blood card from my wallet late last year. It felt strange doing it as we had always been told to carry it with us no matter what. After I took it out a feeling of relief swept over me. I told my kids what I had done. My son told me he was proud of me – he is df’d and hasn’t carried a card in years. My daughter hugged me and said she had removed hers ages ago but out of respect had not mentioned it to me. What a relief to know our health care is back in our own hands and not that of some misguided rule handed down with an iron fist from the Borg.
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Doublegame says:
February 12, 2016 at 7:00 pm
I removed the blood card from my wallet 7 years before leaving. The folly of this doctrine was clear to us. If Jesus said that one should be willing to give his life for his friends and if the “blood is the life” then shouldn’t one fight for the privilege to give his blood to a dying friend?
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Winston Smith says:
February 13, 2016 at 6:24 am
I am sure have posted this thought before, but as it is germane to this article I will reiterate: In the Bible blood is used as a SYMBOL for life. The whole sanction on eating blood is to teach respect for life. The Watchtower completely misses the point here. They assign more value to respecting the symbol than that which it represents: LIFE.
So in the final analysis, they disrespect life in order to show reverence for a symbol for life. How backwards!
WS
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Caroline says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:21 pm
Thank you so much Karenne for sharing with us about your brother Donald and how he died because of following the dictates of a bunch of imperfect men called the Watchtower Society. It is such a shame that he got involved in the religion that in the end made it impossible for him to be cured of cancer.
The only good thing about a person who is at the end of their life and they are a Witness is that they have the hope of waking up in the new world. That is the ONLY good thing about being a Witness in my opinion.
My husband has cancer and unless some miracle comes through for him, he is also facing death sometime in the near future and it is so very sad and at this time in his life, I won’t take that hope away from him, even though I know that the Society is nothing but a bunch of hypocritical, arrogant, self appointed boorish and lying ignorant dictators over the lives of eight million and counting.
The saddest thing is when a child’s life is taken away from them because of the brainwashed parents who think they are following what the Bible tells them to do. At least when it comes to adults, they can make the choice to take blood to save their life but if they do take the blood, then according to the Society, they are disassociating themselves and will be shunned. That isn’t a very appealing future either. It’s either die without the blood or live with blood and be shunned for taking it for the rest of their lives.
When a person dies for the “truth”, they will be quickly forgotten by the people in the congregation that they were trying to please. When they are dead, so much for the love that they were craving. If they live through the ordeal, nobody will pat them on the back for more than a few days. After that, their story is boring to them. They only want to talk about themselves. They could care less what happened to anybody else and how they made it through without taking blood.
It is so much better to take the blood and live and F***k the Society. We only get one chance at life and it’s a gift. Why throw it away to please a bunch of stupid men????
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Eric Arthur Blair says:
February 12, 2016 at 7:30 pm
So true.
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Karenne Gionet says:
February 13, 2016 at 7:03 am
Caroline,
I’m sorry that your husband is going through a similar circumsance as my brother. I completely understand your desire to let your husband think whatever makes him feel hope as he faces his impending death. When I was spending time with my brother, I didn’t try to talk him out of refusing treatment. He knew what he wanted and was unable to have a conversation because he was having trouble taking deep breaths. I didn’t want to make him have to talk, which would have been required if I wanted to try to convince him to accept blood/bone marrow transfusions. Instead, I just cherished the time we had together and made it as comfortable for him as I could. You are SO right… we only get one chance at life and it is a gift. It’s devestating to see lives cut short when the medical technology is available to help Jehovah’s Witneses who will opt out of treatment believing that to do so will “please Jehovah”. Please know that my thoughts are with you and your husband.
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Tara says:
February 13, 2016 at 8:07 am
I’m sorry to hear about your hubby Caroline. xx
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Caroline says:
February 13, 2016 at 8:07 pm
To Karenne and Tara, thank you for your comments and thoughts.
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Kate says:
February 12, 2016 at 5:45 pm
I really feel for you Karen…what a tragic waste of a valuable life. I a terrified this may happen to my only son one day. I managed to bring my two lovely daughters out with me when I left, but my son followed his father’s lead unfortunately. Thanks for sharing your story.
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ScotWm says:
February 12, 2016 at 9:58 pm
My next door neighbor was a long time Jehovah’s Witness elder who desperately needed an artificial knee. This medical procedure would cause a great deal of blood to be lost. However, the lost blood could be immediately reclaimed and pumped back into his body during the operation.
My neighbor said that his conscience would allow this procedure because he regarded the reclamation of his own blood to be nothing more than an extension of his own circulatory system. The operation was a complete success and he remained an elder until he died at age 96.
A few years earlier, Jehovah’s Witnesses were forbidden to use their own reclaimed blood during a medical procedure. The Watchtower’s original blood doctrine was, “NO BLOOD!” Then it was changed to “NO whole BLOOD!” Gradually, most of the other blood issues became a matter of conscience.
How can a Jehovah’s Witness properly train his or her conscience when Watchtower doctrines are constantly changing? Do Jehovah’s laws change? Or is it just the Watchtower’s misinterpretations of His laws that continually change?
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Man from the lions pit says:
February 12, 2016 at 10:34 pm
Thank you Karen for sharing this touching story !
Its full of love although sad.
No matter what you believe at present Karen this is my believe for Donald based on his own words :
“Don’t feel bad for me. I have the easy part. All I have to do is go to sleep. Then I get to wake up in the New System.”
AND HE WILL !
love and peace
Reply
Karenne Gionet says:
February 13, 2016 at 7:18 am
What matters to me is that, when he was dying, he was conscious and awake, sitting next to my sister-in-law. He was able to share his thoughts with her. He felt at peace (according to what she told me) and was not in terrible pain in those final moments.
I don’t like to think or write about how I feel regarding his post-mortem status, but I will in response to your comment. My brother was cremated and I have his cremains (in a sealed brass box). I do not believe that he is “sleeping”, spiritually or otherwise, in that box.
All that matters to me is that, at the moment of his death, it comforted him… and made him less afraid… to think he was just going to go to “sleep” and would get to wake up in the New System. As a hospice nurse, I have seen people die. Not all deaths are as pain-free and smooth as was my brother’s. Regardless of what I believe (and don’t believe), I only care that he had a comfortable dying experience.
Reply
ScotWm says:
February 13, 2016 at 1:34 am
Karenne, It was around the time of your brother’s tragic death that the Watchtower’s blood doctrine gained some respect from non-Witnesses:
“In 1983, scientists discovered the virus that causes AIDS. The virus was at first named HTLV-III/LAV (human T-cell lymphotropic virus-type III/lymphadenopathy-associated virus) by an international scientific committee. This name was later changed to HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).”
I remember there was a lot of “we told you so” chatter among the Witnesses at that time whenever the blood doctrine was discussed. Was the risk of getting AIDS from a blood transfusion ever a topic of conversation when you talked to the elders who were stalking your brother?
http://www.theaidsinstitute.org/education/aids-101/where-did-hiv-come-0
Reply
Karenne Gionet says:
February 13, 2016 at 7:24 am
The AIDS epidemic was a serious concern at the time my brother needed blood. My mother and I talk about it. We both had “O-negative” blood, which is the universal donor type. My mother and I were prepared to have our blood and bone marrow tested to see if it would have been a match for my brother, but he said that he didn’t want us to go through with it. He had a bone marrow biopsy and said it was extremely painful. He didn’t want us to go through that experience because he knew he would have refused treatment even if we had been a match.
Reply
ScotWm says:
February 13, 2016 at 5:34 pm
Thank you for the quick response. You and your mother did all you could in an attempt to save your brother. Donald would have been spared the added worry of getting an AIDS tainted blood transfusion if either you or your mother had been a suitable match. The unfortunate circumstances surrounding Donald’s death only add to your grief. I am truly sorry for your loss.
Reply
susanna says:
February 13, 2016 at 2:20 am
Thanks Karenne!
When I was 12 I had an openheartsurgery without blood. All my “friends” and family thanked Jehovah…but less than a week later my bloodlevels dropped and I needed blood. This was 1975 and I knew that even if I died I would soon wake up in the paradise. I didn´t want blood, but the swedish Child care Agency said that they would take custody from my JV-mom and force blood on/in me. I got blood and survived and my people was praying to Jehovah to forgive me. I never understood that, I didn´t want the blood so why did I need forgiveness? I cried for days, imagined Satan and his demons sitting on my bed laughing, feeling great while I got that sinful blood into my body. During my whole time as a JW I felt dirty because of getting the blood. Today I can´t understand that the JW didn´t make sure that this JW-kid didn´t feel bad and guilty for something that she couldn´t do anything against. Some years after leaving JW I needed a new heartsurgery and this time I was greatful for the doctors and the blood and I recovered faster not feeling bloodguilty. The blood issue among other issues made me leave JW. How could a loving god encourage and demand that children got motherless because refusing a symbol of life?
Reply
Karenne Gionet says:
February 13, 2016 at 7:29 am
I agree. It’s a terrible burden to put on a child. Even when adult choose to accept “fractions” as a matter of moral conscience, members in their congregation will see them as “less faithful” and as having “tainted blood”.
Reply
Nina says:
February 13, 2016 at 2:31 am
Thanks a lot for sharing.
The hands of the governing body are covered with blood.
Reply
Caroline says:
February 13, 2016 at 4:03 am
https://youtu.be/2WaAK8jroeI
Everyone should watch Peter Gregerson’s video. It was thinking about blood transfusion and he started thinking about what if one of his children had been in an accident and would need blood to live and that is what got him to question whether or not the JW religion was the one and only true religion and how he started researching the real history of the organization and realized it was all lies.
It is one of the best videos you will ever listen to.
Reply
Patricia says:
February 13, 2016 at 7:50 am
This makes my heart hurt. I am sending you love and support. Thanks for sharing your story.
Reply
James Broughton says:
February 13, 2016 at 8:10 am
Karenne, what a heart-rending story. It certainly counterbalances all those glowing life stories that we seem to be reading in the Watchtower literature as of late. The quote of the article for me is: My brother was not a martyr. He was a card-carrying victim.
The late British politician Tony Benn once said: “I have all the time in the world for those who die for their faith. I have no time at all for those who kill for the doctrine.” Salutary words.
Reply
Awakened E.African brother. says:
February 13, 2016 at 8:14 am
I have just found this info:http://forum.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/416-two-jehovahs-witnesses-congregations-abolished-by-courts/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Reply
Karenne Gionet says:
February 13, 2016 at 10:23 am
I just read two of the articles. That is incredible! I’m not thrilled with Vladimir Putin, but I must say… Russia is doing a good service to its citizens in this regard. Putting a stop to the spreading of JW extremist doctrine with regard to the blood doctrine and shunning is a good thing.
Reply
Tara says:
February 14, 2016 at 8:45 am
Great news. Putin is an odd ball but then which leaders are not. I wonder how the JW world will react to this one.
Reply
Chiafade says:
February 16, 2016 at 10:02 pm
They will play the victim as usual. A story will be posted on JW.org about the unfair treatment they’re receiving. Same old crap.
Reply
Chiafade says:
February 16, 2016 at 9:59 pm
Thank you for sharing this. Fantastic news.
Reply
JBob says:
February 13, 2016 at 12:27 pm
A very tragic situation, and my condolences to you after these many years, Karenne.
The blood issue is yet another indictment of the erstwhile claims that the Organization and its current incarnation of the Governing Body as dreamed-up-in-1971 (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1971, first capitalization and entitlement of GB) were “appointed” and/or hand-picked by Jesus, as He tied on a dust-protecting bandana to begin cleansing and setting the sanctuary aright. It goes to the issue that prior to 1950’s blood transfusions and blood usage was not a Shibboleth matter, but after the 1940’s and 1950’s it becomes as sacrosanct as the 7DA Sabbath observance.
But, as medical-legal and medical articles advanced and showed the overwhelming benefits of blood by-products, like Evolution v. Creation, the Watchtower has had to scrape away crusty barnacles of old, obsolete statements.
What should put any potential adherent or current adherent on edge (on notice, even) is the telling details regarding Donald’s wife grinding up beets and other herbs thought to build up iron in the blood. I’m unsure what that medical benefit this purposed to do–it’s certainly a “cure” for some forms of anemia but I’d like to see the medical studies/research showing this creates needed mature white cells to reverse leukemia effects.
And, as the state of permitted for JW’s medically with blood is murky, it behooves any adherent or student of JW’s to do their own research in “current” Watchtower literature rather than be bound by statements and raised-disapproving-eyebrows of [human] elders, or other Jehovah-Witless/Clueless types, when it comes to protecting health.
**It is a broad and invalid assumption to conclude that the many of JW’s home-school–some, yes. Home-schooling is an expensive project and as discussed on this blog, most aren’t possessing the wealth to afford opening a “home school” that passes certifications of the government. Also, not to be discounted are the tendency of some JW’s to be a tad “eclectic and eccentric” regarding diet, healthcare and education which gets treated as “live and let live” (or enabled if not encouraged) by the leadership. So, the Watchtower doesn’t mandate home-schooling, but it doesn’t banish it either with a “come as queer as you are [unless you are queer or gay]”.
Reply
CM says:
February 13, 2016 at 12:46 pm
I am so so sorry for your loss I literally am crying at how descriptive and detailed your memories are of the last days you spent with your brother. I had a very good friend of mines die of leukemia as well about 4 years ago he jas just turned 21 and refused a bone marrow transplant, he was so kind and full of life as a matter of fact today is his bday….I have seen dozens of witnesses pass away or come damn near close to it for refusing blood. Even the jews who abstain from consuming blood will accept blood transfusions to save their lives, and hell they wrote the the hebrew scriptures. So sad and once again I am so sorry for your loss and thank you so much for sharing your story though I know it must have been so hard to recall these memories I hope that it reaches jws and their families to make them realize how idiotic and non bible based their blood abstinence is all it does is cause pain and loss.
CM
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 13, 2016 at 3:30 pm
@CM
Your reference to those of the Jewish faith who have a much more balanced view of blood reminded me of a great article on JWFACTS.com about Pikuach Nefesh – Life overrides Law.
See: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php
WS
Reply
Pow says:
February 13, 2016 at 1:45 pm
I have been reluctant to add my voice to this discussion, as I tend to resort to sarcasm to vocalize my dissatisfaction with the rightly conversely doctrines of this faith. And this subject in particular, as in the case of child abuse, is all ready so painful. But, put simply, the current “understanding ” of what jwdubs stand on blood is beyond understanding. …there’s more loopholes and inconsistencies in this policy then the average publisher can imagine. …I know from experience that if you took 3 different brothers from 3 different hospital lesion committees, and they where giving a series of questions related to treatments involving a variety of products, there by no means would be uniformity in their answers. ….obviously, if this was in fact a clear bible directive, like say adultery, we would not need ever expanding guidelines and discussions to discern right and wrong. And we would not need specially trained men to attempt to give us the right answer at that moment, subject to change, later. In conclusion, my stance for sometime has been that the org. painted itself into a corner with this doctrine, and now is attempting to create so much confusion that in reality if the medical field just takes the blood and modifies it to a point where it’s now referred to by some other title, then “whole blood transfusion ” then it’s now a conscience matter. It’s a way of saving face.
Reply
Pow says:
February 13, 2016 at 2:21 pm
One more comment in this regards,
IN the mid 90s the org. was attempting to legalize their activities in certain eastern European countries, and the blood issue was a real sticking point. At one point the societys legal team offered the concession that “blood transfusions would become a personal matter” well, when word got back stateside it was like a bomb went off, you see many families that had faced this issue including some who had lost members, as a result of this policy were outraged. ..in essence, we had to face this , so should you….how could this be a conscience matter for you, when my little son/daughter had to die?…the position was quickly reversed.
Reply
Alexandria R says:
February 13, 2016 at 6:38 pm
I looked on the internet for info about eating blood and found out the scripture also reads not to eat a strangled animal. Bleeccchh! After reading that info it made me totally understand why people become completely grossed out at the thought of eating an animal and become vegetarian…I considered it…for like 15 minutes…
My fully indoctrinated sister explained to me they don’t accept blood transfusions in order to please Jehovah and out of love for him and to be obedient to him and in order to make it into the new systems of things. They don’t accept blood transfusions for those reasons, medical reasons have nothing to do with it.. My ‘worldly’ husband had blood transfusions. My family was scared from the propaganda. My husband had a bad ulcer. He fully recovered. Many years later he died from a heart attack. I was scared at the time that he would catch a disease from the blood. I was happy I was shown proof the donor blood was tested.
Reply
SIRIUS says:
February 14, 2016 at 7:35 am
@Karenne, truly a heart wrenching and heartwarming experience. Thank you for revealing an “interworking’s of the JWs” practice. There’s no substitute for experience including laying it on the table for all to understand!
@Alexandria R
>>>My fully indoctrinated sister explained to me they don’t accept blood transfusions in order to please Jehovah and out of love for him and to be obedient to him and in order to make it into the new systems of things. They don’t accept blood transfusions for those reasons, medical reasons have nothing to do with it..
I’ve always been at odds with those touting “holier than thou” and hyping we own the truth because we have cracked the mysterious code others have been blinded by. Let me throw in my Ace card into the game of which-card-lands-closer-to-the-wall. In Islam, it too plays the same superiority guilt game but it has evolved into a higher plateau such as “a man becomes what he eats”. Here, consuming pork like consuming blood transfusions is harmful because consumption creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man. Abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practice hygiene and to attain purity of soul. What a wonderful stealth way at pointing at all the ills of the west or the WTs, “worldly”. I’m waiting for the WT to attain this higher level of understanding or in WT’s level of intelligence “light gets brighter” logic. Will JWs eventually be required to be selective and distinguish between Halal/Kosher (Lawful) and Haram (Unlawful) foods next? Odd though, if you are what you are from eating and muslims avoid pork, then what foods causes a muslim to be a suicide bomber… as I want to avoid that diet!
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
Alexandria R says:
February 14, 2016 at 9:51 am
Exactly. They don’t make sense. They allow organ transplant as long as no blood. My mother had cornea replacements in her eyes so she can see. She knew they were donated by someone who had died. My father who was an elder most of his life , and everyone else congratulated her and was happy for her. They are allowed a transplant but no blood. It doesn’t make sense. Donated blood is tested. It is safe.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:39 am
i think it was in reference to organ transplants (when they were under ban by the watchtower), and I cannot recall if they ever applied it to blood, but the watchtower used to teach that when you accepted an organ transplant that you also got part of the personality of the donor too. So if the donor was a murderer, you might be inclined to commit murder too. What a bunch of hogwash!
WS
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:43 am
Here’s the reference (thank you JWFacts):
“A peculiar factor sometimes noted is a so-called ‘personality transplant.’ That is, the recipient in some cases has seemed to adopt certain personality factors of the person from whom the organ came.” Watchtower 1975 Sep 1 p.519
WS
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
February 14, 2016 at 12:34 am
It seems religions are nothing but illusions. Your brother is not alone as you can see…
*** g97 10/8 p. 14 The Crusades—A ‘Tragic Illusion’ ***
Albert of Aix states that when the Jews at Mainz “saw that the Christians did not spare even their little ones nor had pity on anyone, they threw themselves on their brothers, wives, mothers, and sisters and slew one another. The most heartrending thing was that mothers themselves cut their sucklings’ throats or ran them through, preferring them to die at their own hands rather than be killed by the arms of the uncircumcised.”
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
February 14, 2016 at 5:22 am
Me too Peggy…I lived in fear of nosebleeds and any cut or accident because I knew my parents would have let me die…to me that in itself is child abuse ….and living in a home where you were loved…but on condition that you obeyed the rules and realised you were subject to the rules under all circumstances…Im bitter towards my parents… one has passed away and one is mentally ill and left poor by the decisions she made to stay faithful…Karenne’s story has actually left me heartbroken it is sad beyond belief…what a waste of a wonderful man.
Reply
eyes opened says:
February 14, 2016 at 9:04 am
As we all know the GB are more than willing to cross lines and make rules. Their ever-changing rules on blood is clear evidence of that. Currently it is acceptable to have some of your blood removed, have some medicine mixed with it and then returned to your body. Yet they say we cannot store our blood. They fail to render a ruling on the appropriate amount of blood the mix can be made with. This is playing God and is ridiculous. Just another form of control and abuse. In the scriptures, to my knowledge, reference to the pouring out of blood was associated with the death of an animal you intended to eat. It was evidence of respect. It was used in sacrifice, again the animal dying. This would be relative to Jesus side being punctured and his blood poured out in sacrifice. The scrips say to avoid things strangled, again because blood was not poured out. The blood rulings in the scriptures always associated with death. Blood transfusion is something that should be a matter of conscience. The GB has no right to make decisions for someone else’s life. How much sadness they are responsible for. Too much to ever answer for.
Regards
Reply
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
February 14, 2016 at 11:00 am
@ eyes opened
Consider this you will find where the rules come from
1) *** w90 7/1 p. 22 par. 18 The Coming Finale of “the Book of the Wars of Jehovah” ***
In the six-day war of 1967, fleshly Israel took possession of all rebuilt earthly Jerusalem. However, there is not a shred of evidence that Jehovah God took any part in the fighting then. His enthroned King, Jesus Christ, does not reign in earthly Jerusalem, and it is no longer “the city of the great King,” that is, of Jehovah.—Matthew 5:35.
2)*** w85 9/1 pp. 17-18 par. 7 Kingdom Ministers Meet the Challenge ***
For some 53 years after 1914, or until the Six-Day War of 1967, earthly Jerusalem continued to be trodden down by non-Jewish nations. Evidently, however, Jesus was not referring finally to the Jewish Jerusalem of today but to what that city represented up until 607 B.C.E. And what did it represent? Why, the Kingdom of Jehovah God by means of his anointed King of the royal house of David!—Luke 1:32; 1 Chronicles 29:11
3)*** w83 8/1 p. 18 par. 5 Israel and the “Times of the Gentiles” ***
So earthly Jerusalem continued to be trampled upon by the Gentiles until 1967. But since then, to all outward appearances, Jerusalem has ceased to be trampled by the Gentiles. However, we feel obliged to say, “So what?” Did Israel’s putting a stop to Gentile trampling upon Jerusalem back in the year 1967 bring blessing to all mankind? Instead of accepting it as a blessing, many nations resent the existence of Israel. Certainly the creation of the modern nation of Israel has not led to the establishment of the Kingdom of the Jewish Messiah. Manifestly, Israel is not looking to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, namely, Jehovah, for help and salvation. Its government is no kingdom with a genuine descendant of the royal line of ancient King David seated on a throne at Jerusalem.
Let us wait for Jehovah’s Kingdom to solve the issue of blood transfusion…
Reply
eyes opened says:
February 14, 2016 at 11:43 am
Thank you for your reply. Most interesting, however I believe Jesus came into power in 33ce just as he said “all authority is given to me”. Also that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 was Armageddon. Since 2 Tim. 3:16, 17 says the scriptures make us fully competent and completely equipped, I feel that anything we need to know can be discerned by Bible study. I certainly appreciate the research you’ve done in making your reply but I don’t understand the relevance of the quoted Watchtowers with respect to the rule making. Again thanks for taking the time.
Regards
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:31 am
@eyes opened
Jesus condemned the religious leaders of his time for making up a bunch of rules that went beyond God’s law. Ironic that professed Christians proceed to follow the same formula which Christ condemned.
WS
Reply
eyes opened says:
February 15, 2016 at 2:59 pm
How true the words “religion is a snare and a racket”. : )
Reply
Wip it says:
February 14, 2016 at 4:53 pm
I no longer carry a blood card, havnt done for years, i always wondered though how many JW would cave placed in the life or death situation, its ok to be strong when we are healthy, i watched both my parents die from cancer & leukemia, my dear dad had leukemia, he wasnt a JW so took blood, after his 1st transfusion he didnt want anymore because of upsetting my JW mum, i watched mum tell my dying father that she wasnt upset about the blood, as a human she didnt want to see him die, which is understandable, i found it quite conflicting watching my mum get happy when his health picked up breifly after a BT, i have also had a sister say to me whose young child had a BT forced on him through the courts, & survive that she was secretly happy.
Reply
JWIntellect says:
February 15, 2016 at 2:37 pm
Wonderfully written article!
Reply
MARS says:
February 16, 2016 at 7:09 am
My father in 1982 faced surgery , it was life threatening. Luckly my two non ‘ JW aunts were at the hospital to secretly push for my dad to have a transfusion. The elders showed up trying to argue with the surgeon,to do non blood surgery. while my aunt faught to get the blood as a medical treatment. Thanks to my auntie , My dad lived another 30 years , almost faced a JC hearing a year later after the news leaked that he had a blood transfusion.
The question , the JW leaderdhip pushed so hard against blood transfusions , why are they not teaching Kosher Koshrt laws? So far they banned blood for medical use but , dont follow strict jewish laws on food containg blood ?
Reply
Wip it says:
February 16, 2016 at 8:09 pm
In that situation as a blood relative you can ask the Doctors to remove any unwanted visitors
Reply
Twmack says:
February 17, 2016 at 7:28 am
The odds of any one of us being conceived and seeing the light
of day, are just mind boggling. Therefore the value of life is
inestimable, a never to be repeated prize.
To needlessly throw life away on the basis of ancient writings, of
highly dubious origin, is a tragedy. To be influenced to that
extent by a bunch of flat earth’ers is just mental.
Any religion that can brainwash parents into allowing their children
to die, when the remedy is at hand, is immoral and dangerous.
It needs expunging, obliterating from normal society.
Anyone under such influence needs to look in the mirror and ask
themselves, am I really in my right mind?
Reply
Pow says:
February 17, 2016 at 11:01 am
Or…..you allow your relative to die, because the lifesaving medical procedure is Not on the official approved list…..then, 4 weeks later “new light” comes out, but it’s too late for your family. ..oh, well that’s what the resurrection is for.
This concept of the resurrection reversing injustices, has some philosophical implications, Since Jesus was resurrected 40 hours after his death, can anyone be held liable for his murder? Even Revelations deals with the cries of justice from those executed by the axe.
The point I’m making, when any person/persons determines for another the course of actions that one MUST take and it turns out to be the wrong decision, and even leads to death….that’s bloodguilt. Maybe not intentional, but still blood guilt.
Reply
Pow says:
February 17, 2016 at 11:18 am
Here’s a little more on this argument,
Let’s say I’m driving a forklift at bethel, and one day I’m overloaded and in a big hurry, I round a blind corner and run right over TONY MORRIS 3, and the result of that is he is now transferred to his new assignment in heaven with his big brother. Could it really be said that was manslaughter? Should I be rewarded or punished?
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 17, 2016 at 11:42 am
Good points Pow. It seems that the Watchtower’s ressurrection teaching leads them to devalue human life.
To add a bit of humor to a serious topic, I am reminded of the movie Tommy Boy where David Spade mocks Chris Farley by saying: “Hey everybody, I’m Big Tom Callahan’s son. My dad will take care of everything, so I’m allowed to be a moron.”
To apply to the Watchtower: “Our dad (God) is going to wave his magic wand and fix everything, so we can come up with whatever latest line of BS we want to and it doesn’t matter if we ruin people’s lives with it.”
WS
Reply
Lynaire Williams says:
February 17, 2016 at 1:59 pm
Yes, the Watchtower in it’s wisdom sees all life as expendable and any claim to the contrary an unfortunate embarrassment, to be tidied up with untruths.
As one of the “expendables” I emphatically challenge that. I know I am “life”. There is nothing else I can be, because said life is all there is. Just like the seasons, we are born, grow, change and die. However life is not completely adrift, after sensing danger it responds and adapts.
There is a revolution of freedom overtaking us, we have responded. Anything that tries to halt that momentum will, sooner or later implode. Paradise regained.
Reply
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Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
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Posted on February 17, 2016
ps“Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.” -Mark Twain
February’s edition of JW Broadcasting, the televangelism arm of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, featured the moving story of Phelicity Sneesby, a young Australian girl born with a serious heart condition that cast severe doubt on her chances of surviving birth. As it turned out, thanks to the efforts of skilled medical professionals, Phelicity was able not only to survive birth, but has also been able to live to the age of 13.
You can view the JW Broadcasting episode in question here, but there are a number of things in the video worthy of comment.
Firstly, Watchtower showcases the fact that 13 year old Phelicity is baptised, and presents this practice of child baptism as a positive thing that other JW parents are clearly expected to imitate. This continues the trend of Watchtower putting increasing pressure on young children commit to the Organisation long before they can make an informed adult decision based on greater life experience.
Most civilised societies do not allow children to make life changing commitments at a young age. Activities such as marriage, serving in the armed forces, voting in elections, accepting financial burdens such as a loan and so forth are deliberately kept away from children, as it is recognised that they do not have the life experience, mental and emotional stability, or the education to make informed decisions on such issues.
Yet Watchtower is increasingly putting pressure on pre-teen children to make a binding lifelong commitment of obedience to the Governing Body that they cannot take back on pain of shunning. One wonders how long it will be before Watchtower starts to glowingly report the baptism of pre-school infants.
However, there is another very important aspect to this story that you won’t get if you only view Watchtower’s broadcast.
Phelicity is dying.
The high costs of Watchtower doctrine
ps2According to recent news reports, Phelicity is currently in the US, undergoing treatment for a complication in her condition. Sadly, it appears that this treatment has failed, and that Phelicity is now terminally ill. However, it was not possible to fly her home due to the costs involved in the special medical flight that would be required. The cost of the flight would be a colossal sum of $150,000, money the family simply did not have. They have apparently expended all of their money funding previous trips abroad to obtain treatment for their little girl, and simply could not afford to bring her home for the closing days of her life.
Thankfully help came, not in the form of Watchtower, but in the form of a gofundme campaign. For those not familiar, Gofundme is one of many crowdsourcing sites available online, where people from around the world can contribute funds to ideas, business or charitable causes.
There are three points we can learn from this.
Firstly, the root cause of having to fly a critically ill girl around the world for treatment was seemingly not a matter of the required treatment being unavailable in her home country. Hospitals in Australia capable of providing this treatment do exist, but the hospital Phelicity was taken to in the US is one that many Jehovah’s Witnesses apparently rely on for performing bloodless surgeries. Whilst no definitive statements from the family or other sources have so far been made, this strongly indicates that the Watchtower’s ever changing and contradictory “no-blood” policy was a driving factor in this family feeling obligated to bankrupt itself flying thousands of miles to obtain medical treatment that might otherwise have been easily and cheaply available had blood not been an issue.
Secondly, whilst it is clear from the comments in the gofundme page that many witnesses are now contributing to the campaign, it also appears that a huge bulk of the donated funds come from people who are, as Watchtower likes to say, “in the world.”
The kindness of the world
679Watchtower frequently uses the derogatory term “in the world” or ‘worldly” to denigrate and dismiss people who do not subscribe to the doctrines and behavioural commands of the Governing Body. Watchtower literature frequently groups all non-witnesses together under a single banner, and attributes to them en-mass almost every negative human trait you can think of. Here are just a quick selection of the countless references available at jwfacts.com.
Awake 1996 October 22 p.15
Since worldly people are existing as slaves of corruption, their company cannot bring you true happiness.
Watchtower 2013 Feb study ed. p.24 “Our choice of associates. Of course, some contact with unbelievers — such as at school, at work, and when sharing in the ministry — is unavoidable. It is quite another matter, though, to socialize with them, even cultivating close friendships with them. Do we justify such association by saying that they have many good qualities? “Do not be misled,” warns the Bible. “Bad associations spoil useful habits.” (1 Cor. 15:33) Just as a small amount of pollution can contaminate clean water, friendship with those who do not practice godly devotion can contaminate our spirituality and lead us into adopting worldly viewpoints, dress, speech, and conduct.”
Watchtower 1984 October 1 pp.15, 19 Remain “Without Spot From the World”
“We must avoid the speech, conduct and attitudes that are so common among worldly individuals, but that are out of harmony with God’s Word. For instance, hatred, greediness, shameful conduct and obscene jesting have no proper place in our life. We must ‘put up with one another and be forgiving, even as Jehovah has freely forgiven us.’ (Colossians 3:13) That is not the common worldly way of dealing with others, but it is the godly way.”
Have the people of the “world” involved in this gofundme campaign been acting in the way Watchtower implies above? Wicked? Obscene? Hateful? Selfish?
$240,000 and counting says otherwise. Additionally, The Age reports that Qantas Airlines, a “worldly” business, have contacted Phelicity’s family to see if they can assist, potentially resulting in a significant cost saving for the flight.
Thirdly, it appears from the available facts that, although a number of individual Jehovah’s Witnesses have indeed come forward to donate to the gofundme campaign, the Watchtower itself has apparently not done so. This is despite its sale of properties in Brooklyn expected to net them over 1 Billion US dollars.
Why is this relevant?
Watchtower: The charity that doesn’t engage in charity.
charity
In many countries, Watchtower is registered as a charity. By doing so, it avoids paying significant amounts of tax towards the upkeep of the social structures and institutions of the countries in which it operates, and often obtains significant help from governments that would be unavailable were they not listed as a charity.
Yet does Watchtower really qualify for such status? Significant concerns have been raised in this area, resulting in the UK Charity Commission undertaking an investigation of Watchtower’s UK arm. Does this incident shed any light on the legitimacy or otherwise of Watchtower’s claim to be a charitable organisation?
Well, here is the definition of a charitable organisation:
charity: noun
an organization set up to provide help and raise money for those in need.
“the charity provides practical help for homeless people”
synonyms: non-profit-making organization, non-profit organization, not-for-profit organization, voluntary organization, charitable institution; fund, trust, foundation, cause, movement
“they raised money for an AIDS charity”
In other words, this should be a perfect opportunity for Watchtower to step in and give some charitable assistance. $150,000 is a lot of money, but it’s a drop in the ocean when you’re cheerfully banking $1 Billion in real estate profits.
Did they step in?
No.
Whilst clearly happy to feature Phelicity for propaganda purposes, and to pressure other witness parents into baptising their young children, their interest in her clearly didn’t extend to actually helping her in the final days of her life. That is something they left to their followers to handle, many of whom are already short of cash and being squeezed for even more.They did not even update the JW Broadcasting episode to highlight the gofundme campaign so that their followers would know of its existence.
Thankfully, the people of the “world” were able to step up and help out when Watchtower either could not, or did not care to, and the media outlets of the “world” were able to champion her cause when JW Broadcasting fell silent.
The thoughts and sympathies of the JW Survey team are with little Phelicity and her family at this difficult time.
For additional links on this story, please see below, and please visit the gofundme campaign if you are able to assist Phelicity and her family in this matter.
UK Daily Mail Article on the Story.
ABC news article on the story.
The Age.com article on the story
Gofundme page
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101 Responses to Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
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Bright Lightbulb says:
February 17, 2016 at 2:55 pm
Very interesting and well written article. This makes me shameful of even having been associated with the Brooklyn Cult. Certainly there’s no shame there among those stoic old men!
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Doc Obvious says:
February 17, 2016 at 3:03 pm
Phelicity Sneesby is not one of the 1000 projects that are on Watchtower Bible and Tract’s list to invest money into. Watchtower’s interest is in their global construction program. Worldly people acting more neighborly than Jehovah’s Witnesses is not a good situation. Watchtower needs to take a look in the mirror and seriously ask themselves what are the more important things in life. Great Article, CovertFade. Appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.
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chuck says:
February 17, 2016 at 3:06 pm
matt 7:17 jesus said, .. you will know them by their works,..imagine all those wicked people helping, while the righteous watchtower does nothing
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Honza says:
February 17, 2016 at 3:07 pm
Thank you!
Big consent!!! So is playing Watchtower society with his People…
Honza
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Imacountrygirl says:
February 17, 2016 at 3:12 pm
Thank you for bringing Phelicity Sneesby’s story to our attention.
I have felt for many years now that it is a mockery and a sham for the Watchtower organization to call itself a charity.
What I have witnessed is an appalling lack of charity. What good does it do when you take a beautiful color picture of a banquet to someone who is hungry and out of groceries, under the precept of taking them the good news of God’s kingdom?
In my nearly fifty years experience with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I have never seen the organization give anyone anything. Period. I have seen individual member’s provide assistance to one of their own, even when they are struggling financially themselves.
I hope one day an investigation is made into their so-called charity status.
Phelicity looks like a precious child and I am so happy she will be home when her little life comes to an end, thanks mostly in part due to the kindness of strangers who have been touched by her story.
This world is a much better, kinder place due to all the “worldly people that Jehovah will slaughter at Armageddon”.
Yes, that is sarcasm you smell.
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Peggy says:
February 18, 2016 at 3:10 pm
@Iamacountrygirl,
I was thinking about how one might take money from the devil himself if it would pay for a sick child’s medical bills, or make her well. Here just normal “worldly folks” are helping out in this case. Yes, the JW parents will take that money, and forget about the fact they believe such ones shall be executed by jehovah very soon. That’s some serious hypocrisy. I am not faulting them for accepting the assistance, just saying they really have something here to consider.
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Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 19, 2016 at 11:20 am
In England it has all kicked off with the Goddard Enquiry into the child abuse issues at the WT org. Also the Org is trying to evade the Charities Commission investigation into their dealing with sex offenders and the safeguarding of children in the Org. They are in a lot of trouble, an d have put in a fifth appeal to stop the investigation into their practises. It is doubtful that they will win. I want to see this immoral bunch of nobodies lose everything they have got, and I would like to see a mass exodus continuing more and more.
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Alexandria R says:
February 17, 2016 at 3:30 pm
I’m so glad this article brought up the fact WTS calls itself a charity organization when it actually isn’t one. At the meeting Tuesday night an announcement was read saying that on the first two Saturdays of the month in March everyone will be invited to go out in service for twelve hours each of those days from 7am to 7pm. The JW org considers that charity. For them it’s all about the org and it’s not about feeding the poor or clothing orphans and widows as the scriptures read if you get what I mean.
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Holy Connoli says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:52 am
@Alexandria R. Is that actually true what you said about everyone going in FS for 12 hours the first 2 Saturdays of March? What is the purpose in that? Perhaps to “INVITE” people to the memorial?
How can they stay out or 12 hours o maybe they mean doing it in shifts. I Remember back in my JW days were doing major remodel kingdom hall and lot’s of JW volunteering etc. We had a food line for Lunch and this Homeless type person came and asked for food rather humbled.. he was embarrassed.
the building project manager treed him with disrespect not want to give any food and I spoke up for the homeless person and brought him a plate of food. then the Project manager told him he could not eat with us etc. The guy went ay with his food. I felt terrible with this attitude I saw ad asked myself where is the scriptural concern for those less fortunate?
I mean we were only talking about food. Like the homeless or others in bad situation do not need to eat also? He said oh the guy is a bum. SO what I said he is hungry. let him eat. The JW’s like to brag that they show “LOVE” for humanity by preaching to them and offering bible studies etc.Not much love there if that is all they do and how does that show concern for people if they are hungry or sick or in need of physical aid? I always thought they were fake in helping people and I am glad I am no longer subject to their brainwashing selfish ideas.
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Alexandria R says:
February 18, 2016 at 5:45 pm
Holy Connoli, You show the kind of person you are. You have a big heart. There is a lot of love in your heart. Good for you. You show common sense the society brainwashing takes away from people. Last Tuesday an elder made this announcement from the platform, I can quote him. He said, “In order to help our auxiliary pioneers make their time, the first two Saturdays of March we will meet at 7am for public witnessing work then we will meet at the hall at 9:30 for field service then we will have afternoon field service then after that we have a table set up at Washington Park and a table set up at the Farmers Market. We encourage those who want a head start on their hours to join us.”
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Markie says:
February 17, 2016 at 3:48 pm
Shame on you for using this little girls condition to propagate your hate.
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John says:
February 17, 2016 at 5:37 pm
I see no ‘hate’ in this article or this website…just facts.
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Winston Smith says:
February 17, 2016 at 8:49 pm
Shame on the Watchtower for using this little girl’s condition to propagate their cult!
WS
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dave buskirk says:
February 17, 2016 at 11:30 pm
Markie how is it hate to post a link to help this poor little girl out? The only hate I see is the Watchtower impersonating a legitimate charity while making billions and not helping their own in need as well as fomenting hate and prejudice toward generous loving people in the world.James 2:16 New International Version (NIV)
If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?
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kittycat says:
February 18, 2016 at 3:50 am
The Watchtower make it way to easy to bring the ‘truth’ to light. If they were as loving as they say, why is it so very easy to find the evil in their hearts. This article is well written only stating the facts, the Watchtower a heartless organization serving only themselves.
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Covert Fade says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:00 am
Markie, please feel free to back up your accusation with facts. Are there facts in the article that you dispute or wish to challenge? Are there facts we missed out?
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Roman Castañeda says:
February 18, 2016 at 5:01 am
I believe y’all misunderstood Markie. He, or she, simply stated that this article contains NO hate, just facts (sorry for the caps; not tech savvy).
Like he mentioned, there was no hate of any kind in this article. It presented the facts very admirably. You are very eloquent Covert Fade. It’s not like the Watchtower keeps saying that all “apostate” websites are filled with hate and bitter people who are simply butt hurt. In fact, this and other websites alike share way more content than the Watchtower ever could, and y’all do it in such an orderly fashion. So please do not feel attacked
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Markie says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:31 pm
You said that the Watchtower used her for propaganda purposes. The “fact” is your doing the exact same thing. Your obviously using her situation to propagate your agenda against the Watchtower. I agree with a lot of things said here about the Watchtower but it doesn’t change the “fact” that you are doing the exact same thing your accusing them of. By the way, have you sent her any money? Just to be clear, I haven’t.
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Covert Fade says:
February 18, 2016 at 2:29 pm
Markie, by your logic, you are now using this girl for propaganda purposes as well, as you apparently draw no difference between an act on the one hand and criticism and analysis of said act on the other.
Or can you perhaps suggest how to critically discuss, analyse, and provide news coverage of Watchtowers actions in this matter without mentioning the girl at the heart of it all?
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Man from the lions pit says:
February 18, 2016 at 10:59 pm
Dear Markie I think you put yourself to shame by your own comment.
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Winston Churchill says:
February 17, 2016 at 4:12 pm
@ Covert Fade . Good Analysis of Watchtowers so called ‘Charity Status’ This article goes hand in hand with The new Cedars video on You Tube about donations for Circuit Assembly days with no transparency in charitable donations .
As a charity the Watchtower pays No Rates on their Circuit Assembly halls so when donations are asked to cover expenses it can only be for heating,lighting & water as most assembly halls are paid off years ago.
Yet as mentioned in this article Watchtower are selling 3 buildings this year for at least $1.2 Billion. Plus in 2004 they sold one building for $200 Million & in 2013 sold 5 buildings for $ 375 Million to the Kushner Organisation . Plus the hundreds of millions of dollars in donations each year from ordinary brothers in the boxes, real estate donations, wills & legacies, etc
All Tax free plus the Bossart Hotel sold for $81 Million 3 years ago.
Yet Watchtower couldn’t bring this baptised child home with some of their own money ! Very very sad.
There is a saying my Church of England Grandparents taught me .. ‘Charity begins at Home’
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ForestDaughter says:
February 17, 2016 at 4:15 pm
It’s no surprise that they took the parable of The Good Samaritan out of their version of the bible. ‘By their fruits you shall know them’…which also includes those who pretend to be charitable and are most decidedly not, as they stand out a mile for their hypocrisy and their lies.
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Peggy says:
February 18, 2016 at 3:32 pm
@Forestdaughter,
The Good Samaritan parable is in their bible. Luke 10:29-37.
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Pow says:
February 17, 2016 at 4:24 pm
Honestly, has the society (the org. where donations are sent) ever once came to the financial aid of a rank and file member. Even official relief work, never involves the giving of monetary funds…it involves overseeing volunteer labor and donated materials…most natural disasters are a windfall of cash for the org. Money flows one direction to bethal,
How, many new kingdom halls have you seen being built in last 3 years..since time when all congregations started paying a mortgage, whether they had one or not….now we have letter that says 5 congregations must share hall each with their midweek filling hall to capacity before they would be on list for new hall.
Now, retired c.o’s and D.O’s are being assigned to congregations to “assist ” them financially.
The point is if I was running a “charity” like this, I think the government would shut me down.
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Chiafade says:
February 17, 2016 at 5:28 pm
I’ve done my share of relief work many times. One thing I know for damn sure is that the only ones cutting checks are those on the receiving end of the so called relief.
I remember terrible flooding in the Midwest. Cedar rapids Iowa had over 1000 city blocks flooded. The publishers were “encouraged” to donate their insurance checks. One sister was upset and even said “I don’t have money for furniture” “you fixed my house but you’re not going to furnish it I need the money”. The watchtower society wants to get paid for its so called free Relief work. She could have hired the work done for less than the total of the check she was given.
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Winston Smith says:
February 17, 2016 at 8:54 pm
“Has the society…ever once came to the financial aid of a rank and file member.”
But you can bet if this was some GB member no expense would be spared to get them the best medical care possible.
WS
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John Baptist says:
February 17, 2016 at 4:58 pm
The Watchtower meets all the Criteria of a Cult on all fronts. It uses the us vs them mentality when dealing with the “World”. They use indoctrination to hold their members in enslavement to their flawed Doctrines. They use a two sets of rules mentality as well.
They are and will go down as the most hypocritical religion ever known to man.
They use you for their gain and when you disagree with them they toss you out like a piece of garbage.
They lie lie lie and label it theocratic warfare.
I feel sorry for anyone who involves themselves in such a destructive religion.
Their day is coming soon!
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eyes opened says:
February 17, 2016 at 5:53 pm
It would seem if the org is going to use Phelicity’s story, the least they could do is offer some financial assistance. It would certainly be the honorable thing to do. They are binding heavy loads and not lifting a finger to help.
Regards
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jacob says:
February 18, 2016 at 12:04 am
James 1:27, Taking care of those who cannot is a christian obligation. more so than preaching. I pray JW ‘s really considers this.
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Lydia says:
February 18, 2016 at 12:36 am
I hope the John Cedars rebuttle of this broadcast will be on Youtube soon!!! I can´t wait for his rebuttles!
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Kat says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:01 am
Markie don’t you have any gratitude towards those terrible pagan worldly people or are you just grateful to the JW that helped. as the scripture says.
Matthew 5:46-48New Living Translation (NLT)
46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. 47 If you are kind only to your friends,[a] how are you different from anyone else?
Here we have total strangers helping out your little sister and you have nothing to say accept to come on here and show your hatred, because your religion is being exposed again as an uncaring so called only true religion on this planet.
would you help a worldly person in the same position would any JW for that matter?
I personally would like the parents to give a public thank you to all including those worldly people, among could very well be Catholics, atheists, Buddhists yes and Muslim who knows.
The GB of JW should hang their head in shame they do nothing for no one not even their own.
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Jarred Booth says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:46 am
I recall I used to give the public talk on mercy. It covered the neighborly Samaritan. Yet one of the points in the outline was, essentially: Don’t give money to “worldly” people who need it or ask for it, instead you should preach to them. Yes that is Watchtower’s definition of “mercy”. I can’t believe I used to push their propaganda like that.
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Eric Arthur Blair says:
February 18, 2016 at 2:26 am
Great investigative work covert fade. It really annoys me that they don’t mention blood on the broadcast – they clearly didn’t want to prejudice their own case. At one point the father says that the doctor told them “there was no chance in Australia she could be operated on…” then a quick edit cuts away from the rest of his words, but I suspect he went on to say “without blood” – but that’s just my conjecture.
I know for a fact that this operation can be performed here. I made a comment on the most recent Friday column regarding my experience as a father of a child with a congenital heart condition – we have some of the best surgeons in the world here in Australia, as well as some of the most advanced facilities and, perhaps most importantly, the best health care system. Despite the fact we had private health care cover at the time, our sons operation was perform under Medicare – the tax funded health system every Australian is entitled to. Our private health cover only gave us the right to chose our surgeon, rather than be assigned one, and it paid for the hospital stay (which still would have been covered by Medicare if we hadn’t had private health cover.) So this is all about the blood.
I really feel for this family. Unfortunately they have had a very difficult, painful and complicated situation made all the more difficult, painful and complicated, unnecessarily so, by the pharisacial governing body who bind up heavy loads for others but do not lift a finger to help.
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Caroline says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:00 am
@Markie. You are such a coward. Why don’t you put your real name on your post? You come on here and make a blanket statement about how this article is trying to spread “hate” but either you are too scared of the Society’s finding out that you have been on an “apostate” website and commenting or you are working underground for the Society. Which is it?
If you are too scared of the Society’s finding out what your name is, why are you scared? Shouldn’t anybody be allowed to question their own religion by looking at the websites that might have something to say that might question their doctrines with facts? If it’s really the truth, you should have nothing to be afraid of when it comes to apostate “lies”.
The only reason you are not allowed to come onto “apostate” websites is because the Society will disfellowship anybody who admits to going onto “apostate” websites or reads anything that might make a person stop and think and question their own religion and find out that what they have been taught from the Society can not be backed up by either facts or the Bible and they will “hate” the Society like I do and stop supporting them and stop sending them money.
I was always taught not to lie and I hate liars. If you are not afraid to put your religion to the test, then don’t be afraid to put your real name up. If you are afraid to put your real name up, that means you should be ashamed of belonging to a religion that prohibits it’s members from putting it’s teachings to the test. As Witnesses, we were always encouraged to put our Bible Study’s religion to the test, so Witnesses are hypocrites if they don’t put their religion to the test as well.
Your life is important. Every life is important and should not be thrown away on a bunch of lies. I for one, don’t want anything to do with a religious corporation that lies and makes up their own version of a Bible to trick people into believing them and using that Bible to trick people out of their money to get rich in real estate and neither should you.
If you have anything to say that will convince me that you have the real “truth”, my ears are wide open. If you don’t then why are you here?
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Adrian says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:31 am
Couldn’t care less about who is helping this little girl – just extremely glad to see humanity coming together to make it happen.
Those climbing on the bandwagon to turn this into a story either pro or anti WT should be ashamed of themselves !
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Caroline says:
February 18, 2016 at 5:21 am
Adrian, are you Markie in disguise? Nobody would know about this story in the first place if the Watchtower hadn’t “used” her to wrench money out of the Witnesses.
You say you couldn’t care less about who is helping this little girl? Talk about being heartless????
If that is the kind of person you are, it’s because of your religion or maybe a religion like the Watchtower is right up your alley because that is the kind of person you are in the first place?
There is only one reason you are in the Watchtower Religion and that is because you are a selfish person.
You aren’t in that religion to help other people. You are in that religion because you think that by serving the Organization, you will gain everlasting life in the “new world”. You are selfish and that is why you are in that religion. We were all there so we know how that religion works. You can’t pull the wool over our eyes. You serve the Organization and you think you will be saved through Armageddon. You are in that religion for selfish reasons. If it wasn’t for the idea that you will be saved through Armageddon through your preaching work, you would not be in that religion. If you were in that religion just because it’s the “best way of life” and you didn’t have the “promise” of the new order, you would not be preaching. The reason for the preaching is to save lives through Armageddon and to save your life. You are serving God for selfish reasons, just as Satan told God in the book of Job.
Even the reason you pray to Jehovah is to get something out of it. You don’t pray to have God restore limbs because you know it ain’t gonna happen. You only pray for stuff that you know He can’t do anything about. So, is your God even real, so that you have to obey HIM??? Can you prove God is real or are you serving an illusion? If you can’t prove God is real, then it’s sad that you are wasting your life on a religion that is taking advantage of your naivete. Why not ask for something that God can actually do like help that little girl not to die????? You have no pity and no love and the Watchtower Religion teaches it’s followers to have no pity and no love. I know that because I was in it for fifty years. You can’t fool me. I know how it works and so do you.
The reason for this article is because you and the Watchtower Society don’t have any love for that little girl but people who the Society teaches Witnesses to “hate” have more love and compassion for that little girl than you do. That is why you could care less about who is helping her get back home to her parents.
The ones who are disgusting are the ones who will use a dying little girl to wrench money out of it’s followers like the Watchtower Society did and do absolutely nothing to help her or her parents out when she is dying.
Don’t come on a website like this and try and turn the tables away from who the real culprits are here.
Stay away and go to the people in your religion such as heartless people such as yourself and keep your comments to yourself.
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Markie says:
February 18, 2016 at 12:58 pm
Caroline it seems that your hate for JWs is really eating you up. My I kindly suggest therapy?
Mark is my real name. Markie is my nick name. I have no idea who Adrian is. Sorry. I am using my first name just like you. So I guess I can ask are you a coward?
Saying JWs are in this religion because they are selfish is very unkind and untrue. Most JWs use a lot of their free time to help other people learn what they think is the “truth”. You may not agree with it but preaching is not a selfish act.
And I agree with most people on this website. I think its crazy that the GB would rather you hand a Watchtower to a staving person instead of a loaf of bread. But in their minds they think the are helping in the long-term.
I do think that whoever wrote this blog is exploiting this poor little girls condition for their own means. It seems very hypocritical to accuse the Society of the very thing they are doing.
By the way, did you send the family any money?
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Caroline says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Markie, I don’t hate JW’s and I never hated JW’s and the people who comment on this website do not hate JW’s. You either don’t read the comments here or you are new to the site.
Anybody who is familiar with this site, realizes that most of us were JW’s or have family and friends who are JW’s and why in the world would we hate them for being in the religion when we were in it so long ourselves, not knowing what the true background is of the religion ourselves? Some of the nicest and sweetest people in the world were my friends who longer are allowed to talk to me, simply because I won’t go to the meetings any longer. I miss them and I am sure that they think that I have gone demonic, which is taught to them from the Society and I should know because I was also taught to be paranoid of anybody who stopped going to meetings.
I myself was a JW for fifty years and so I know a whole lot more about the JW religion than you give me credit for. I don’t know how old you are, but if you can beat my time in the “truth”, I’d be curious about just how much time you devoted to preaching the “good news” like I did all those years.
Everybody who belongs to any religion does it for selfish reasons. They expect to get something out of their time and effort.
People don’t just preach the “good news” because they just want to. We all know that Witnesses are expected to preach each and every month and are expected to turn in their time on their time slips to the brothers and if they don’t put in time, then they are called and if they don’t report time, then they are put down as “irregular” and considered weak and bad association. We all know how it works. Going in service is required if you want to remain in good standing in the congregation and if you want any friends, which of course we know JW’s are only allowed to have “friends” who are also JW’s in good standing.
If we didn’t have to report the time that we go in service, then how many would go out? If we weren’t considered weak and bad association, how many would go out? JW’s go in service for selfish reasons, even if you don’t want to admit it. It’s to save their lives. If it was to save others’ lives, then why did we have to report our time? We’d just be preaching all the time and not punching a clock.
Do you know your Bible well enough to be asked questions by those you preach to or are you told not to “debate” them? Are you allowed to take their literature or are you prohibited from taking their literature? Why is Ray Franz’s books banned for JW’s? If Ray Franz’s books are full of lies, then why hasn’t the Society sued him or his family? You are not even allowed to read history books that tell the truth about when Jerusalem was destroyed and if you tell anybody about when Jerusalem was really destroyed, you will be disfellowshipped for apostasy. What kind of religion doesn’t allow it’s followers to even find out the facts about ancient historical facts and not be able to tell their “friends” about it? What kind of closed and cloistered cult do you belong to?
No, you are in a cult and so was I. I am not putting my name here because I am not disfellowshipped but I know full well that if I put my name here that I would be disfellowshipped and that is the very same reason you are not using your full name and I know it and so does everybody else who is reading your posts.
You belong to a dangerous religious cult that is no different than the people who live in North Korea and are not allowed to see anything on television or read anything that does not promote their leader as a god.
Your god is not Jehovah and it isn’t Jesus Christ. It is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
You are not allowed to even put your religion to the test without being disfellowshipped for it and you know it and so does everybody else who is commenting here because we belonged to this religion. We can’t be fooled by anything you have to say.
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:08 pm
@Caroline,
I think the word “selfish” is a poor choice to describe the JW motive to preach. Of course there are some who propose that everything we humans do is motivated by selfishness.
But that aside, to state that all JWs preach out of selfish reasons is to generalize in the same manner the Watchtower org does when they say all apostates are bitter and angry.
Some JWs preach out of genuine concern for others. Some do seem to “get off” on telling others how wrong they are. But for the majority I think it comes down to fear and guilt. They are afraid that if they don’t preach they will die at Armageddon and/or they have been guilted into preaching by the Watchtower and they seek to alleviate that guilt.
I think saying they are selfish conveys the wrong idea.
WS
Idontknowhatodo says:
February 19, 2016 at 5:49 am
Dont let them press your buttons caroline…stay calm…I am in the same position as you in many ways baptised at 14 and now 57…only woke up totally a couple of years ago…some people who comment on hrre are clearly trying to get a rise out of ones in our position…I know you dont hate…I was brought up to hate and since waking up find I hardly hate anyone…especially not sincere JWs..I just want to help them…let markie et al say what they want I and ones like me on this site know exactly what you mean…I fear these ones have been sent to disrupt us…we have had enough manipulation in our lives…dont let them do it anymore.
Ocma says:
February 19, 2016 at 10:20 pm
” Most JWs use a lot of their free time to help other people learn what they think is the “truth”. You may not agree with it but preaching is not a selfish act.” – That’s fine that you believe that Mark, but many would not agree. Here in New Zealand, very few people even know what JW’s believe/teach. They don’t even know about JW’s not celebrating birthdays or christmas! That’s how ‘well done’ the preaching work here is. It is a waste of time, and hardly charity work.
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ruthlee says:
February 18, 2016 at 6:27 am
Caroline you have much to say and well said too. I have to agree with you. I think my conclusion this religion is heartless. They have built up layers and layers of an elaborate system to con, fool, cajole and deceive ALL of us. Especially the born ins who because of accident of birth had no choice. The charity status actually adds insult to injury because it is a thin veneer that looks good. I really hope the God they claim to venerate thinks on these little ones as sparrows. Unless the boys in Brooklyn can squeeze a dollar out of each victim they see no worth in such sparrows. Not even meat in their mouths. Time and time again we see the bricks crumbling. Someone once said this religion is the jewel in the devil’s crown. So true they proudly wear a badge of dishonour and cannot see it. When it finally falls there will be a lot of gnashing teeth. If this was the truth people would flock to it despite the problems and fallibilities but actually joe blogs in the street is not so stupid. Being worldly wise means that although they don’t know the ins and outs that we do they can smell a rat . The kingdom smile is like teeth veneer it suits the person makes them feel more socially acceptable but it is fake and if you look you can see. The eyes of love do not exist among well taught Jdubs because actions really do speak louder than words. If the gb gave a hand out to that poor girl’s family, the flood gates of sob stories real and fake would come pouring in. They would be broke within the month and hey! they would inherit the kingdom! ah! silly me they don’t want that do they only the façade, the veneer, the rotten teeth, and all the blood money for themselves. Greedy pigs! Ruthlee
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Gary says:
February 18, 2016 at 7:06 am
Somebody made the comment that this little girls sad plight was highlighted due to to hatred of JW’s (allowed cough), are you completely stupid?
If you are suggesting that we are movitvated due to hatred so as for you to make your judgement you are sadly misled.
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:21 pm
I don’t know, I certainly hate the way I was lied to and manipulated by the Watchtower society. I hated being used and being denied the facts. I hated the undue influence. Do I hate the indiviual members of the JWs? No.
Do I think this article was in anyway hateful or inappropriate? No. The Watchtower used this little girls condition to promote their own agenda. In their typical bad journalism they left out critics facts of the story. This article fills in what the watchtower left out. How is that a bad thing? Totalitarian governments only have one source for news so they can control the content. In free lands, there are many sources so we can get the big picture. The Watchtower would like to have total control of information. But sites like this one give the public an alternative to the sterilized watchtower rhetoric. If you don’t like what you hear on this site, feel free to “change the channel.”
WS
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:23 pm
“critics facts” should be “critical facts”
damn autocorrect!
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Jaime says:
February 18, 2016 at 8:01 am
Oh boy. JW Survey must be doing something really good here to be hit by so many trolls. Or hit by one troll with many faces. Maybe it is a trinity troll?
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Marty says:
February 18, 2016 at 8:04 am
Totally sums up the Borg this article. A hateful, greedy, death-dealing cult with absolutely no interest at all in humanity, just the almighty $!
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Tara says:
February 18, 2016 at 8:12 am
This is so heartbreaking. This poor little girl and her family have suffered so much and there are many others out there who are putting blind faith in a man interpreted doctrine. Yet, as has been brought out, the Borg. won’t lift a finger to secure a few thousand dollars for a flight home for her. Remember little Ashya King… the trauma those parents went through and I recall the JW’s being divided on his plight. These babies are pawns on the Borg. glory train but when you look deeper we see the greed that really motivates the pious facade. I can’t even look at the broadcasts anymore, they make me sick. I hope and pray for this little girl and other like them.
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:27 pm
@Tara
I concur. The psycho-babble from watchtower, either in video form or in writing, turns my stomach.
WS
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Jaime says:
February 18, 2016 at 8:18 am
This article got me thinking about the psychosis of corporations. WT is of course worse, as instead of paying people to lobby, advertise, build, etc. they get them to volunteer their services! It’s a narcissist’s dream! Here they are using poor Phelicity to advertise how to dedicate you precious few days on this planet to WT/JW.org. Meanwhile, taking her parents donations, and binding up heavy loads with the blood doctrine.
The tobacco companies marketed to children until laws were enacted. WT/JW.org would find a way to evade those laws if they came, by having elders and C.O.s encourage child and teen baptism by one on one conversations instead of putting it on t.v., watchtowers and such. (As an example the page in the Shepard’s book that the elders write up verbatim themselves, leaving WT in the clear.)
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vieuxcolon says:
February 18, 2016 at 9:08 am
Hi everyone,
I want to let you know how a great job you are doing by exposing the Watchtower society. Whether you realize it or no you have helped and continue to help thousands to overcome their fears and leave this organization that cares about nobody but only about its money. Thanks for these well researched writings. After 14 years in this organization, you helped free me this modern day slavery. I just agree with everything written in this article. Well done.
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Losangelos says:
February 18, 2016 at 9:41 am
Can it be possible that this family will be asked (encouraged) to donate the money they raised on gofundme to the Watchtower?
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Amber says:
February 19, 2016 at 12:45 pm
Losangeles, I thought the very same thing. When I saw how much money was donated on her gofundme page, than was even asked for, I thought, “I sure hope the family isn’t now going to feel the need to donate the excess to Watchtower!” Because they’ll think it was only because of God/Watchtower that they were blessed with generosity. Instead of just accepting that there are just good people all over the world, who simply want to help others in their time of need. Unfortunately, with Watchtower’s insatiable lust for money, I’m afraid they just might, and what a despicable thought that would be.
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Pow says:
February 18, 2016 at 9:53 am
Lets, talk about fundraising for minute. ..every assembly, their’s a business meeting with the Elders, where without discussion they are told the costs of the program, ,something like..15.00 per head then travel expenses for the special speaker ect..So, what the audience hears is “brothers we have incurred 12756.23 in expenses, and so far their has been 7956.34 in contributions to offset the expenses , we want to thank you in advanced for your caring for this matter. ” this is not really the cost of the program, it’s a bill., just like your monthly payment to the society for your Phantom hall mortgage, where you pay back money never borrowed form your donated funds to start with, another bill.
Maybe Jesus should have cost factored a 10.00 per head feeding cost at his sermon on the mount. 5000 men plus woman and children, say 15000 X10.00 per head (recommend donation ).plus travel costs, =160000.00 not bad for 20 min. speach.
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Winston Churchill says:
February 18, 2016 at 10:58 am
@Pow. I like your style . Your comment made me smile, but everything you say is so true!
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Pow says:
February 18, 2016 at 10:13 am
Oh, and one more comment to Markie,
If talking about the facts related to a publicized subject constitutes hate speech, let’s see Watchtower has talked about Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinist, Mormons, Baptist, Presbyterians, Adventist, Pentecostal, ect, even standing on the doorsteps of this church’s handing out pamphlets, depicting there members and building being destroyed by God’s executioners. Would that constitute Hate speach?
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Winston Churchill says:
February 18, 2016 at 11:01 am
@Pow . Your reply to Markie’ is perfect. Absolutely perfect !
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Pow says:
February 18, 2016 at 11:06 am
Thanks , sometimes one wonders if their really making sense, especially when your still “in” and you have to suppress your true feeling 24/7.
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M Saurus says:
February 19, 2016 at 10:21 am
Pow – you don’t have to suppress. Be free. Read today’s article. Don’t waste any more of your life. The people who you will “lose” due to shunning don’t really care for you or they wouldn’t behave that way.
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Twmack says:
February 18, 2016 at 10:22 am
They are the antithesis of The Good Samaritan. Through
guilt and fear and false promises, they rob people of
their life’s potential, their energy and time. Enough is never
enough, Phelicity’s story is used for that end, and nothing
more.
Like the priest, they will pray for you, but if real on the spot
practical help is needed ( especially if it requires digging into
their own pockets they will pass by on the other side.
It’s left to the Samaritans, the despised, the Worldlings
to pay the innkeeper.
Ask any aged pioneer now restricted through infirmity and
after a lifetime of service. Who is providing for his, her life’s
necessities? And who is it that has crossed to the other side.
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Winston Churchill says:
February 18, 2016 at 11:06 am
@Twmack. So true about aged pioneers. I have a friend who has been made redundant ? from Brooklyn Bethel after 35 years service ? Or should I say slavery? With no pension or golden handshake except told to be a special pioneer & the worldly Government are subsidising her here in England on housing benefit & £50 a week subsidy from Bethel ! Amazing example for young JWs who want to go to Bethel !
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Doc Obvious says:
February 18, 2016 at 10:25 am
When a religion does not act neighborly, how can you expect its members to be neighborly? If you can’t take care of your own people that you do have, how can you take care of people you do not have?
As one elder put it to me when I was going through a divorce: That’s not our problem; that is your problem.
Can you imagine Jesus Christ saying that?
I hate to say it, but that is what the Watchtower Babble and Tract Society probably told her parents and her.
Sad. But true.
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eyes opened says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:42 pm
While talking about hate speech, let’s not forget about Rutherford, one of the f&ds who showed support for Hitler and condemned “big business jews”. Not very faithful or discreet. His actions led to blood guilt. For more info, reference the 1935 yearbook.
Regards
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eyes opened says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:44 pm
Oops 1934 yearbook!
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Doc Obvious says:
February 18, 2016 at 1:56 pm
I have read several posts to the JW Survey articles and realize that many of you tell the group how controlling the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is. It is as though they have puppet strings on their members. Why would members allow such a puppeteer (parasite) to have so much control on them? It seems that members allow the Watchtower to control them.
For me, I realized how much control they had when I experienced a panic attack by thinking about the many things if you do not do something Watchtower wants you to. For example, the Governing Body made a statement that they appreciate the members who donated extra in June and July as following the “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class”. Does that mean, that people who did not donate were not following the “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class”. What control!
When they tell single sisters that finding a good spiritual brother is by finding him at the Watchtower Construction projects. Put simply, the only good Christian marriages is one where the husband is in the construction trades and is donating his time to the Watchtower construction program. These subliminal messages just adds puppet strings to each member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I find that each special JW Monthly Broadcasting always involves a segment on one of the Watchtower’s Construction projects. Either the Governing Body is telling us something about a construction project or highlighting one of their members involved in the Watchtower Construction Program. Talk about Puppet Strings.
Personally, I like reading articles about simply cutting the puppet strings. Clinical Psychologist, Robert Puff Ph.D., has written an online article for Psychology Today on cutting the Puppet Strings. The article is “Cutting the Puppet Strings of Praise and Blame – We have the ability to be happy by simply cutting the strings!”. It is located at https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/meditation-modern-life/201409/cutting-the-puppet-strings-praise-and-blame. It is a good article.
Another good book, “Pulling Your Own Strings: Dynamic Techniques for Dealing with Other People and Living Your Life As You Choose” is by Dr. Wayne W. Dyer.
Please, cut the puppet strings and live a happier life. Many things that Watchtower states is absolute crap. A happy marriage has nothing to do with marrying a construction worker. There is no correlation.
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Winston Churchill says:
February 18, 2016 at 3:05 pm
@Doc Obvious . Fascinating analogy ‘Praise & Blame’ with reference also to Puppet Strings In regard to breaking the cycle .
The GB is very manipulating . We get More Praise if we auxiliary pioneer than if we are Just a Publisher;
But even more more praise if we Regular Pioneer. & if we Special Pioneer or go to Gilead ,well even more, more praise & commendation & the cycle of the treadmill goes on. It becomes ever more addictive like a drug especially if we have come from damaged emotional backgrounds then the praise we get from the organisation replaces the praise we should have got from maybe a parent.
The GB need damaged individuals as these are the ones who will push themselves ever more & more In the ministry so they get approval & commendation from Elders,Circuit Overseers & are used on the platform at meetings,conventions etc.
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Pow says:
February 18, 2016 at 3:27 pm
@Winston Churchill
And I will add to that, since it’s really a matter of self-fulfillment, self validation, that’s why there’s so much competition between perceived equals.
Pioneers compete with other pioneers.
Elders are constantly locked in power struggles or choose to lay low to avoid being targeted.
Each C.O. will infer that his predecessors really screwed things up.
Bethal is a hotbed of back stabbing, butt kissing , nepotism. It’s famous for the expression “its not what you know, but who you know”.
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:37 pm
To apply Doc Obvious’ comment to what you describe Pow – “dance puppets, dance!” (Insert evil laugh here)
WS
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Arno says:
February 24, 2016 at 1:35 am
@Doc Obvious: Thank you for the link to “Cutting the Puppet Strings.” Wrapped in this article are stacks of “meat in due season,” and that season seems to be now!
Those who have not read the article as yet, do yourself a big favour and do. I’ve forwarded the article to some of my friends…Thanks again :)
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david says:
February 18, 2016 at 3:37 pm
how can the GB sleep at night!
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 4:39 pm
@david
I’d have to say “very well” with the rank and file paying the way for them.
WS
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Caroline says:
February 18, 2016 at 5:53 pm
david, in 2014, when there was that four page letter from the Society that was sent to all the congregation elders where the congregations were tricked into thinking that their loans were paid off and the elders were instructed to read only the first page to the congregations where the congregations were led to believe that the Society was being so nice in telling the congregations they didn’t have to repay their loans but the last three pages of that letter was to ask the elders to tell the congregation at a later meeting that they had decided to send the same amount to the Society every month anyway so as to spread the cost around for poor brothers and sisters who couldn’t afford a new kingdom hall, I confronted the (what used to be called the presiding overseer) about it and I asked him how he could sleep at night because not only did he deceive the congregation about repaying the loans but they had been saving up for a new parking lot repaving which was $15,000 and he (the presiding overseer) put it to the congregation to hand over half of that money ($7,500) to the Society and of course the congregation all raised their hands and agreed to it. His answer to me was:
“I went home that night and slept like a baby.”
I believe the reason they gave a marking talk on me shortly after that and took away my privileges for being able to call in to the meetings was because I called him on it and that marking talk was for revenge.
I told him that what they did was deceitful and they should be ashamed of themselves for what they did but he (presider) only got mad at me for calling him on it. I told him that those letters go online because there are so many people in Bethel who want the rank and file know what those letters say but they can’t hide those letters anymore.
When they read those letters, the elders are fooling themselves if they think they can keep that underhanded stuff secret anymore. It’s just a matter of time before everyone knows the real “truth” about the Society.
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Winston Smith says:
February 18, 2016 at 6:07 pm
So long as there is a voice of authority telling them what they are doing is sanctioned by God, they are able to excuse themselves from exercising their conscience. The nazis who ran the concentration camps tried to say the same thing (i.e. “we were only followinfg orders”), but found out at Nuremberg that it wouldn’t hold up.
On the same line of thought, check out the Milgram experiments on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vXn2SZfwuSc
WS
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Man from the lions pit says:
February 18, 2016 at 11:08 pm
Thank you very much for your article CF !
Very well articulated and reasoned plus without your article I wouldn’t able to help because my own org. “doesn’t have any means” to help or at least advertise need for help as you pointed out !
Shame to them I mean to those in charge of our .ORG!
Hope at least one of them is reading !
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Covert Fade says:
February 19, 2016 at 1:13 am
General comment:
I understand that this is an emotive issue, but please refrain from insulting or attacking other commenters. Please attack their arguments and logic, but do not attack them.
That extends to telling people to leave the site or go away. The decision as to who is welcome and who is not is one that moderators make. In the absence of an actual ban, all are welcome here, even those who strongly disagree with the articles, as long as they express themselves in a civil way.
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Caroline says:
February 19, 2016 at 3:58 am
Dear Covert Fade. I am sorry that I told one of the commenters to go away. That wasn’t my place to do that and I know how badly that would have made me feel if I had made a comment here that somebody took offense to and they told me to go away and I apologize and I won’t do it again.
@Winston Smith. I should have explained myself better when I said that Witnesses preach for selfish reasons.
I believe that every person that belongs to any religion, go to that church for selfish reasons in that they expect to get something out of the experience, either living through Armageddon or going to heaven when they die, or some other reason like maybe just having a bunch of people that they can associate with or maybe to please their family or to be pleasing to the “Lord” or to have their sins absolved. That is what I meant by that comment.
I do believe that many Witnesses preach because they really do have love for their neighbors and don’t want anybody to be destroyed at Armageddon and I feel that is selfless just the same as you do. That is the reason I went out and I know that is the reason most Witnesses go out too. But there is a lot more involved in the preaching work than just love of neighbor and not wanting them to be destroyed at Armageddon.
What I mean by that, is that Witnesses are put under the obligation to preach and go to meetings, either by the Society or the Bible makes them feel they have to do that because Jesus told them to do it at Matthew 28:19,20 and also the warning that (if you believe in Armageddon), you will go and preach to save your own soul too as well as your neighbor, so you don’t have a guilty conscience when Armageddon comes and others are killed and we didn’t do all we could to warn them.
It isn’t only to save the soul of our neighbors, it’s to save our own soul. Witnesses know that if they don’t preach that they won’t be acceptable company for those at the Kingdom Hall. They want to be accepted as good association too. It isn’t exactly being selfish but it’s to survive.
We all need love and acceptance and in the Organization, we are not allowed to have outside friends. We are only allowed to associate with fellow Witnesses and so in order to survive and feel accepted and loved, we need to fit in and do what is expected of us.
Not everyone who preaches, does it simply because it’s in their blood to preach. Witnesses are told they have to go to all the meetings and study, study, study and at those meetings and in the literature, they are constantly reminded of the preaching work and how blood guilty they are if they don’t go out and preach.
So, there is much guilt laid upon them to go and preach. If it wasn’t for all that constant reminding and made to feel guilty about not going, the preaching work would probably stop and I believe the Society knows that full well and that’s why all the constant reminders and making them feel as if they have to go to every meeting and so on. Even the music is designed to make a person motivated to preach and to associate with fellow Witnesses.
I feel that yes, most Witnesses aren’t selfish in the preaching work but they are coerced into it in many ways and if they weren’t constantly told over and over again, that they probably wouldn’t do it. If the Society told them that they didn’t have to go anymore, they would be real happy to stay in bed on Saturday mornings and they would have a clean conscience about not going out.
It’s the constant fear that Armageddon will happen at any moment and the thought that they will be held blood guilty if they don’t preach all that they can, are the main reasons that Witnesses do the preaching work. It’s like somebody told us about Armageddon and so now the guilt is laid upon us to go and warn others. That is what the Witness religion is all about.
When when it comes to meetings, Witnesses are made to feel guilty if they don’t attend all the meetings because they are told they need to build one another up at the meetings and so if they don’t attend every meeting, they are made to feel guilty about that too.
When I went to the meetings, my conscience was clear for a few days and the same when I went in service. That was selfish on my part. I didn’t like the feeling of a bad conscience if I didn’t go to the meeting and I didn’t like the feeling of a bad conscience if I missed service.
But I always had a bad conscience anyway because I didn’t get back to my return visits like I should have and I didn’t keep up with my Bible reading and I felt better when I didn’t go to a meeting and I suffered from a bad conscience from not attending a meeting or missing a day in field service. I never really felt good about myself, no matter how much I wanted to do everything that was expected of me, by all the demands the Society laid on me and all Witnesses.
It’s about having a good conscience. If we do everything we are expected to do by the Society, then we have a good conscience and we feel good about ourselves. If we don’t do everything the Society tells us to do, then we suffer depression and anxiety so it’s about our own survival and feelings of depression.
Nobody likes to feel depressed or anxious and we all need love and acceptance and so we do what we can to not feel depressed and anxious and to be accepted and loved. That is what I mean by doing the preaching work for selfish reasons.
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Caroline says:
February 19, 2016 at 4:31 am
Winston, Spike R has a good video about this very same subject:
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Winston Smith says:
February 19, 2016 at 11:20 am
Caroline,
Thank you for clarifying your position and I do agree with the major portions of your argument. It’s just that the word “selfish” carries very negative connotations. It might be more correct to say that all people are motivated by the preservation of the self. That is a natural human instinct (and even animals have it to an extent). And the cult indoctrination of the Watchtower does various levels of damage to the self and creates abnormal levels of dependency and control.
There is a school of thought called psychological egotism (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_egoism) which states that every human action is selfish. But I tend to disagree and I believe that there are instances of true self sacrifice, even if few and far between. I just finished reading “Man’s Search for Meaning” by Victor Frankl (http://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0671023373). A psychologist and a concentration camp survivor, he relates some truly selfless actions on the part of some of those he encountered.
WS
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Caroline says:
February 19, 2016 at 1:36 pm
Hi Winston. I looked that article over that is in Wikipedia and I think it is interesting. I didn’t study it but I looked at it. I believe that people do things, not always because it is selfish but truly altruistic. I was mostly talking about belonging to a church.
When I speak of doing the Witnessing work as being “selfish”, that probably isn’t the way to explain it either.
I will explain it this way from my point of view: Say, you see a child fall into the water at a pool and nobody sees it except for you and you jump in to save the child. Maybe you can’t even swim, but you don’t think of that. I could not live with myself if I just stood there and watched that child drown because I never learned to swim. I would have to jump in the water to save that child.
If I was the kind of person who didn’t jump in the water to save that child and it didn’t bother me the rest of my life, I would think I was evil. That is the kind person I am. My conscience would bother me terribly if I didn’t jump in to save that child, even though I might die in the process of saving that child. It’s me I am thinking about when it comes to saving that child, not just the child. Do you see what I mean?
When we went in the preaching work, we were made to take the deaths of every person on the face of the earth at Armageddon on our shoulders and were made to feel guilt over not “jumping in the water to save them”. That is the guilt laid upon Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I no longer have that feeling that I have the weight of the entire world’s population’s deaths at Armageddon on my shoulders now that I don’t go in the preaching work anymore. It’s like a very heavy load of guilt has been lifted off my shoulders and it feels great. My conscience is clear and I feel better about myself now.
So, it was all about my conscience. I wanted to feel good about myself and so that’s why I went out. I didn’t want to suffer from a guilty conscience. Is that selfish? I don’t know.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 19, 2016 at 3:46 pm
Caroline,
Your points are well-made.
I’d say that it is not selfish to want to be free from guilt. Being able to feel guilty over not doing the right thing is beneficial and something that makes us human. Unfortunately, “the right thing” is quite subjective and we can be conditioned to see something as “right” that may not really be so. Such is the conditioning many of us received from the Watchtower.
“Guilt is a cognitive or an emotional experience that occurs when a person realizes or believes—accurately or not—that he or she has compromised his or her own standards of conduct or has violated a moral standard and bears significant responsibility for that violation.[1] It is closely related to the concept of remorse.” (Wikipedia).
Guilt can be a beneficial emotion when used in the right way, but can also cause terrible issues when it is based on the wrong principles or unwholesome conditioning.
WS
Caroline says:
February 20, 2016 at 5:34 am
Winston, this is a good article on Wikipedia about the Good Samaritan Law, well worth reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue
There are many laws that make it mandatory to help others who are in danger, if at all possible and especially those who are under their care, such as children and spouses, students, patients of doctors and workers etc.
Many years ago there was a woman who was murdered in New York City and she was in an apartment building and many people in her building heard her screaming for help and not even one person called the police.
These people were asked why they did nothing to help her and they were all afraid for themselves for one reason or another so the government in the U.S. came up with the Good Samaritan Law.
At the time a new brother and his wife came to our congregation from Bethel and they had invited us over for a meal and the topic came up since it was in the news at the time and the brother told us that Bethel told the brothers not to get involved in a case like that because it could be a “set up” to get them robbed themselves. I got into an argument with him because I thought it was insane. I even asked him, “what if the person is being killed?” and he insisted that they should not get involved and he saw all kinds of reasons why that was reasonable to him not to get involved, no matter what.
When I think back to those days in the early 1970’s, I should have realized then that there was something really rotten about the Organization because even then, I knew that what Bethel was telling those people in not coming to the rescue of somebody who was being killed was totally against what my conscience was telling me was the right thing to do.
Gorby says:
February 19, 2016 at 4:09 am
JW’s are sharing the Broadcasting about Phelicity with the remark “We see here in paradise”.
So sad for little Phelicity. The Watchtower uses people for their exposure but when the need is there, the door is closed. I know a bible story about that. The Good Samaritan is the name.
Gorby
Reply
chuck says:
February 19, 2016 at 5:18 am
the watchtower is awaiting “new light”,
that should tell you all you need to know..
2corth..11;14 ..And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Reply
Vassy says:
February 19, 2016 at 6:13 am
Everyone here says the WT did not help Phelicity financially. But how do you know that for sure? Do you have any proof?
Reply
Covert Fade says:
February 19, 2016 at 7:05 am
Consider the circumstances:
If the WT had supplied financial help, why would the gofundme campaign be needed?
If the WT had supplied financial help, don’t you think the family would be publicly thanking Watchtower?
If the WT had supplied financial help, don’t you think the WT would be publicly patting themselves on the back?
If the WT had supplied financial help, don’t you think the media would have mentioned that?
If you have verifiable evidence that WT did supply financial help, please provide it and I will gladly update the article. But without such proof, the circumstances and facts of the case point with near certainty towards a lack of help from the WT.
Reply
Caroline says:
February 19, 2016 at 7:10 am
Vassy, nobody has ever come forward and said they got help from Brooklyn, that I know of. When Witnesses get help, it will be from fellow brothers and sisters. If you know of anybody who has gotten help from the Society, that would make us think a lot better of the Society.
If you go to jwbroadcasting they have videos under the Organization and there’s two videos that they have about the persecution of the Witnesses in Tagenrog, Russia and in the one, the brothers and sisters who were threatened with being put in prison and fined, didn’t get any help from the Society and many lost their jobs because of being hauled into court over and over again. It’s pretty clear in that video that those people did not get any help financially from the Society.
One young brother was forced to quit his job and he has to live with his mother on her small government pension because she is disabled. If there was any help financially from the Society, it sure is not talked about in that video.
Think about all the Witnesses in prison in Korea. If anybody got any help from the Society, I would think the Society would tell them to be quiet or they’d be flooded with letters asking for help from so many people. That would be the smartest thing for the Society to do if they don’t want to be run dry of money.
So, does the Society help people financially? I don’t think so because if they did, they would be the first to want to compensate victims of child abuse within the Organization but instead they fight all the court cases, even when there’s ample proof that the Society was culpable in the cover up of the abusers. If they do help people out financially like with the case of this little girl’s family in this article, they are being quiet about it.
When it comes to charity, we were always told it’s a charity because our main work is to preach to people. We aren’t to make money on the preaching work. It’s done out of the Witnesses’ charity in that they are the ones paying for the gas and the cars to take the message to the people. That is how it was always presented while I was going to the meetings.
Reply
Stephane Laliberte says:
February 19, 2016 at 7:31 am
I am shocked by how this JW’s report completely ignores the help that this family has received from this system of things through the years. For instance, they slept at the Ronald McDonald House on at least 6 separate occasions and for long periods of time. As they are willing to seek such help, I would not be surprised to hear that they benefited from other charities and government programs as well. In 2012, on a discussion forums, someone posted the family’s banking information in order to receive donations. What about the doctors and the nurses that actually cared for this girl through the years? Most of the time, she was handed that help for free in Australia! And lately, they have received close to 250k from total strangers.
I don’t doubt for one minute that this family has received plenty of emotional and physical help from the JWs. Food, hospitality, money, and more; JWs are good people and help when they can. I’ve seen this.
But to ignore the help and support provided by the “worldly” people is devious and manipulative. It leads the viewer to believe that ALL the support and help this kid’s family ever got was through Jehovah’s organization.
Reply
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← The Friday Column: The Blood Issue and Leukemia: One Man’s Story
The Friday Column: “And a new Earth.” →
Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
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Posted on February 17, 2016
ps“Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.” -Mark Twain
February’s edition of JW Broadcasting, the televangelism arm of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, featured the moving story of Phelicity Sneesby, a young Australian girl born with a serious heart condition that cast severe doubt on her chances of surviving birth. As it turned out, thanks to the efforts of skilled medical professionals, Phelicity was able not only to survive birth, but has also been able to live to the age of 13.
You can view the JW Broadcasting episode in question here, but there are a number of things in the video worthy of comment.
Firstly, Watchtower showcases the fact that 13 year old Phelicity is baptised, and presents this practice of child baptism as a positive thing that other JW parents are clearly expected to imitate. This continues the trend of Watchtower putting increasing pressure on young children commit to the Organisation long before they can make an informed adult decision based on greater life experience.
Most civilised societies do not allow children to make life changing commitments at a young age. Activities such as marriage, serving in the armed forces, voting in elections, accepting financial burdens such as a loan and so forth are deliberately kept away from children, as it is recognised that they do not have the life experience, mental and emotional stability, or the education to make informed decisions on such issues.
Yet Watchtower is increasingly putting pressure on pre-teen children to make a binding lifelong commitment of obedience to the Governing Body that they cannot take back on pain of shunning. One wonders how long it will be before Watchtower starts to glowingly report the baptism of pre-school infants.
However, there is another very important aspect to this story that you won’t get if you only view Watchtower’s broadcast.
Phelicity is dying.
The high costs of Watchtower doctrine
ps2According to recent news reports, Phelicity is currently in the US, undergoing treatment for a complication in her condition. Sadly, it appears that this treatment has failed, and that Phelicity is now terminally ill. However, it was not possible to fly her home due to the costs involved in the special medical flight that would be required. The cost of the flight would be a colossal sum of $150,000, money the family simply did not have. They have apparently expended all of their money funding previous trips abroad to obtain treatment for their little girl, and simply could not afford to bring her home for the closing days of her life.
Thankfully help came, not in the form of Watchtower, but in the form of a gofundme campaign. For those not familiar, Gofundme is one of many crowdsourcing sites available online, where people from around the world can contribute funds to ideas, business or charitable causes.
There are three points we can learn from this.
Firstly, the root cause of having to fly a critically ill girl around the world for treatment was seemingly not a matter of the required treatment being unavailable in her home country. Hospitals in Australia capable of providing this treatment do exist, but the hospital Phelicity was taken to in the US is one that many Jehovah’s Witnesses apparently rely on for performing bloodless surgeries. Whilst no definitive statements from the family or other sources have so far been made, this strongly indicates that the Watchtower’s ever changing and contradictory “no-blood” policy was a driving factor in this family feeling obligated to bankrupt itself flying thousands of miles to obtain medical treatment that might otherwise have been easily and cheaply available had blood not been an issue.
Secondly, whilst it is clear from the comments in the gofundme page that many witnesses are now contributing to the campaign, it also appears that a huge bulk of the donated funds come from people who are, as Watchtower likes to say, “in the world.”
The kindness of the world
679Watchtower frequently uses the derogatory term “in the world” or ‘worldly” to denigrate and dismiss people who do not subscribe to the doctrines and behavioural commands of the Governing Body. Watchtower literature frequently groups all non-witnesses together under a single banner, and attributes to them en-mass almost every negative human trait you can think of. Here are just a quick selection of the countless references available at jwfacts.com.
Awake 1996 October 22 p.15
Since worldly people are existing as slaves of corruption, their company cannot bring you true happiness.
Watchtower 2013 Feb study ed. p.24 “Our choice of associates. Of course, some contact with unbelievers — such as at school, at work, and when sharing in the ministry — is unavoidable. It is quite another matter, though, to socialize with them, even cultivating close friendships with them. Do we justify such association by saying that they have many good qualities? “Do not be misled,” warns the Bible. “Bad associations spoil useful habits.” (1 Cor. 15:33) Just as a small amount of pollution can contaminate clean water, friendship with those who do not practice godly devotion can contaminate our spirituality and lead us into adopting worldly viewpoints, dress, speech, and conduct.”
Watchtower 1984 October 1 pp.15, 19 Remain “Without Spot From the World”
“We must avoid the speech, conduct and attitudes that are so common among worldly individuals, but that are out of harmony with God’s Word. For instance, hatred, greediness, shameful conduct and obscene jesting have no proper place in our life. We must ‘put up with one another and be forgiving, even as Jehovah has freely forgiven us.’ (Colossians 3:13) That is not the common worldly way of dealing with others, but it is the godly way.”
Have the people of the “world” involved in this gofundme campaign been acting in the way Watchtower implies above? Wicked? Obscene? Hateful? Selfish?
$240,000 and counting says otherwise. Additionally, The Age reports that Qantas Airlines, a “worldly” business, have contacted Phelicity’s family to see if they can assist, potentially resulting in a significant cost saving for the flight.
Thirdly, it appears from the available facts that, although a number of individual Jehovah’s Witnesses have indeed come forward to donate to the gofundme campaign, the Watchtower itself has apparently not done so. This is despite its sale of properties in Brooklyn expected to net them over 1 Billion US dollars.
Why is this relevant?
Watchtower: The charity that doesn’t engage in charity.
charity
In many countries, Watchtower is registered as a charity. By doing so, it avoids paying significant amounts of tax towards the upkeep of the social structures and institutions of the countries in which it operates, and often obtains significant help from governments that would be unavailable were they not listed as a charity.
Yet does Watchtower really qualify for such status? Significant concerns have been raised in this area, resulting in the UK Charity Commission undertaking an investigation of Watchtower’s UK arm. Does this incident shed any light on the legitimacy or otherwise of Watchtower’s claim to be a charitable organisation?
Well, here is the definition of a charitable organisation:
charity: noun
an organization set up to provide help and raise money for those in need.
“the charity provides practical help for homeless people”
synonyms: non-profit-making organization, non-profit organization, not-for-profit organization, voluntary organization, charitable institution; fund, trust, foundation, cause, movement
“they raised money for an AIDS charity”
In other words, this should be a perfect opportunity for Watchtower to step in and give some charitable assistance. $150,000 is a lot of money, but it’s a drop in the ocean when you’re cheerfully banking $1 Billion in real estate profits.
Did they step in?
No.
Whilst clearly happy to feature Phelicity for propaganda purposes, and to pressure other witness parents into baptising their young children, their interest in her clearly didn’t extend to actually helping her in the final days of her life. That is something they left to their followers to handle, many of whom are already short of cash and being squeezed for even more.They did not even update the JW Broadcasting episode to highlight the gofundme campaign so that their followers would know of its existence.
Thankfully, the people of the “world” were able to step up and help out when Watchtower either could not, or did not care to, and the media outlets of the “world” were able to champion her cause when JW Broadcasting fell silent.
The thoughts and sympathies of the JW Survey team are with little Phelicity and her family at this difficult time.
For additional links on this story, please see below, and please visit the gofundme campaign if you are able to assist Phelicity and her family in this matter.
UK Daily Mail Article on the Story.
ABC news article on the story.
The Age.com article on the story
Gofundme page
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← The Friday Column: The Blood Issue and Leukemia: One Man’s Story
The Friday Column: “And a new Earth.” →
101 Responses to Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
← Older Comments
Twmack says:
February 19, 2016 at 10:37 am
No way would they ever credit outsiders with unselfish
acts of kindness. It’s imperative that they maintain their
illusory distinction between the chosen ones and the
Ungodly, the opposers, Satan’s brood.
The lines must not be blurred or softened. Black. and
white thinking only. It’s a classic cult method of
Brainwashing.
On the subject of reporting, it’s yet another coercive tactic.
many would not go knocking on strangers doors if there was
no check on them.
Reply
Crazy4Jesus says:
February 19, 2016 at 5:04 pm
Most Religions from the beginning of recorded history and before, at their root involve human sacrifice. Blood sacrifice is also in the Baal worship Jewish tradition, Christian and Mormons. In the occult thinking a ritual dose not need to be on a alter but the intent. In occult thinking Jehovah’s Witness who die from the teachings and rules give great power to them.
Reply
Larry says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:04 pm
Humm, True to form this is my story too. My wife of 20 years developed throat cancer. Her illness was long ,three years. During this time the hospital bill was 3 times the value of my home so I could not borrow to pay the doctors and hospital. when the doctors and hospital began collection against me the encouragement I received from the JW, congregation was this: “The wicked one borrows and does not repay” It was fine for me to donate $12,000 to put a new roof on the kingdom hall,but let me now need help and who will help me up?
It was the samaritan who came to my aid, not the congregation. It took years yet I let my yes mean yes and eventually was able to pay the doctors and hospital.
However being referred to a a wicked person at the time was not very helpful. I have left that place now.
With these words I will close.
“Its not church it is business”
Reply
Bad Penny says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:11 pm
This story is so sad. The little Phelicity was used as an example for child baptism! The poor little soul probably felt she must get baptised in order to receive a resurrection, should the worse happen. It now seems that the worse is inevitable.
In the ABC news article, her mum felt that all the financial help they had received in order to get Phelicity home, was an answer to their prayers. This seemed a little bizarre given the facts that ‘Jehovah’ has used all those worldly people’s contributions to help and not his ‘own organisation’s’ finances isn’t it?
Of course, we know that the Society would never fund anything like this. If they did it for one they would have to do it for all. They expect the rank and file to do the giving, and I feel sure that many have probably donated.
I have heard of other tragic cases where witness parents have lost their children. Unfortunately, I have also witnessed how these parents then feel obliged to stick with the religion for fear of never seeing their little ones again. One old sister I know of has kept her deceased son’s room exactly as he left it, toys and all, awaiting his return. Her mental prison has meant that she has never been able to move on.
I hope that Phelicity’s parents will realise that even if you are not a JW, you can have compassion, empathy and love. Something that the GB is sadly lacking.
Reply
Winston Churchill says:
February 21, 2016 at 3:32 pm
@Bad Penny. Your comments really sum up the mental strait jacket the GB have in the emotional hold over their flock . If a loved child dies the parents cling to the JW religion in the desperate hope of seeing their dead child again.
Mental manipulation of the highest degree.
Plus also your valid point of never financially supporting those in need of money for their sick child otherwise the floodgates would open but the GB will happily fleece the flock of even children’s ice cream money to finance all their building projects. Sickening !
Reply
Bad Penny says:
February 21, 2016 at 5:44 pm
Thanks Winston.
Phelicity’s parents, it seems, have no qualms about accepting help from non-JWs. I wonder if any who contributed were ex-JWs? – Just a thought, because this week I found out that a lady I used to have a bible study with has lost her son through suicide. (I have not seen her since I disassociated). Foolishly, I guess, I spoke to her on the ‘phone, offered my condolences and asked if there was anything at all that I could do to help. She said that she had no shopping done. I immediately said to give me a list of things and I would go for her. I awaited her call ….the following morning her husband rang to say that they preferred me not to visit at this time, what with her faith and all ….
It appears that my ‘good Samaritan’ action was perceived as a threat!! The Jew who fell among robbers in Jesus’ parable accepted the help from the Samaritan, despite their differences.
Such is the mind manipulation and control of JWDom.
I cannot believe, God forbid, that had the shoe been on the other foot, that I would have turned away their support.
I guess I will have to ‘stay on the other side of the road’ in future and walk away. This shunning policy is downright evil.
Reply
Pow says:
February 22, 2016 at 9:07 am
Bad Penny,
Of course, Jesus healed on the sabbath, clearly by the power of baalzebub. ..no righteous Pharisee would ever make that mistake.
Reply
Kaye says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:46 pm
I was trying to think of the reasons why the Watchtower would want to present this very emotional story.
Amongst other reasons, I think they found this story a good one to highlight the idea that JWs will go to any lengths to provide the best medical care for their children.
This must now be very embarrassing for the Watchtower because of the very public way the family have asked for money.
Reply
KA Mraz says:
February 22, 2016 at 3:49 pm
Its kind of ironic the Witnesses call themselves a charity when there is no charitable anything from them. They’re no better than Judas Iscariot.
Reply
Kaye says:
February 24, 2016 at 12:07 am
They are not a charitable organization, rather they are the ones that are requiring the charity.
Reply
Wip it says:
February 21, 2016 at 6:10 pm
It makes me Sick
Reply
L says:
February 21, 2016 at 10:07 pm
Allways wondered why they push young kids to get baptised. What if a young one decided the religion wasn’t for him/her? Would the parents and elders disfellowship or excommunicate the child at say 12 years old? If the child can’t make the decision to leave, then they are not making a decision to stay.
Reply
edy says:
February 21, 2016 at 10:42 pm
I’m not surprised. WT only know how to milk their followers dry. I know of a late brother, in Nigeria, a special pioneer that died of something he couldn’t have died and now, his family is suffering and he had spent all his years pioneering for WT.
I was just so infuriated when he died that night because I know no help will come from WT to the family he left behind.
Reply
Claudia says:
February 24, 2016 at 7:55 am
So sad story. Sad for Phelicity, sad for the mental prison in which her parents stands.
This organization does not care at all about people, their only worry is money.
Watchtower has choose the Bible and the religion, as a source of income. Better browse monex than Bible’s pages!
ClaudiA
Reply
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← Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
The Friday Column: “And a new Earth.”
Posted on February 19, 2016
carrot-dangle-donkeyEvery once in a while, I’m asked why I bother keeping up with current events in the world of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
My answer will usually depend on several factors, including, but not limited to: caffeine concentration in my bloodstream, looming University assignments and general satisfaction with this great probability engine that is life.
If conditions are unfavourable, I will likely mumble incoherently and return to scribbling on the wall with my trusty Crayola. (I find that there is a certain understated madness in the crayon that’s impossible to convey with any other marker. I recommend red for added effect.)
If conditions are favourable, however, my answer would be that keeping an eye on the activities of Watchtower and the Jehovah’s Witnesses is something of a civic duty; their troublesome beliefs continue to cause problems for past and current members alike. From the Governing Body’s stance on homosexuality and feminism to the endless barrage of uncomfortable questions posed by the Australian Royal Commission into Child Sexual Abuse, there is no shortage of people with a righteous axe to grind against Watchtower.
But perhaps the most insidious effect of Watchtower’s continued presence is the theological “eternal carrot” of the Paradise, tantalisingly dangled just out of reach of the Witness rank-and-file. As we shall see, Watchtower’s construction of the New System does nothing more than stunt the philosophical growth of the average Witness. How can this be so?
Paradise regained
When comparing the differences between the JW concept of afterlife with that of a more mainstream Christian religion, the contrasts appear stark.
Imagine for a moment that you are, say, a Catholic. You, dear Catholic, are given a certain amount of time on Earth to spend in righteous pursuits. Such as donating to homeless shelters, playing the harp and knitting bible verses into ugly woollen sweaters. (Or whatever it is that righteous people actually do. I wouldn’t know.) As an angel, having transcended the physical and gained a greater understanding of the inner workings of the universe, you play the harp some more and play an active role in your local “Holy Rollers” Angelic Bowling Team. Notice now that your afterlife in Heaven is merely a continuation of your existence on Earth.
And what if you are a Jehovah’s Witness instead?
After the eventual arrival of Armageddon (any day now) you are reunited with your loved ones on the Earth, rather than in Heaven. The infinite amount of free time now available to you can be utilised in various ways, including: spending time with friends, exploring the Earth, pursuing hobbies, raising a family, owning a panda as a pet. Etcetera
One conspicuous difference between these two philosophies is that the “rewards” for faithfulness as a Jehovah’s Witness are mostly activities that an ordinary human could work towards right now (with the exception of eternal life, for example). It’s true! You can go out today and buy some seeds to plant a garden! Invite your friends to the cinema to see the new Star Wars! You could become a zoologist or start a family of your own! Or both!
To synopsise: whereas a more mainstream afterlife is a continuation for life on Earth, the Witness afterlife is a replacement for life on Earth. While this glosses over the Witness doctrine regarding the 144,000 humans who are resurrected to heavenly status and rule with Jesus. However, if we confine our discussion to Witnesses with an earthly outlook, the point is equally valid.
Real life? Or just a fantasy?
Given that most activities available in Paradise are essentially within reach, why is it that the average Jehovah’s Witness doesn’t drop everything and start their new life a few years early? I can think of two reasons supported by Witness doctrine.
One. As an upright Witness, it is your responsibility to spend this time preaching the word of God in whatever capacity you can. You are taught that this work is important because it is vital to saving the lives of others and is “never to be repeated” (w10 2/15 p. 9). Being a faithful proselytiser is also vital to progressing beyond Armageddon in the first place.
Two. Life as it exists now is only a pale imitation of life after Jehovah’s divine judgement of the wicked at Armageddon. Wicked people have overwhelmed the Earth! “Critical times hard to deal with” are here! (2 Tim 3:1)
We can see further examples of this in the Witness literature: “Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them “brainwash” you with the Devil’s propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any “future” this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let God’s Word influence you in selecting a course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal.” Watchtower 1969 Mar 15 p.171
“This world has very little time left!” Ironically strong words given that they are now nearly forty-seven years old. But this also gives a key insight into another reason why Witnesses might postpone their ambitions.
“That’ll be 30 seconds please.”
Holding-back-hands-of-timeIn the real world, actions carry with them a temporal cost.
I feel no need to give this a citation because it seems like the sort of statement that almost nobody would take issue with. Want to learn to play the trombone? Sure! Let’s say that it takes fifty hours of practice to gain the level of proficiency you want. Assuming you live eighty years, that’s approximately 0.007% of your life which you can no longer use for any other purpose.
While it’s an overly-simplistic metaphor, the percentage of your life that you put towards a certain end can be thought of as a cost or investment in that activity. Some activities are compulsory- if you sleep eight hours a day, this will be about 33.3% of your life. Work and school have percentages of their own, as evidenced by our quote from the previous section.
In this way, every action taken in life is an investment (some large and others small) towards the grand 100% that is your life. And not all of these investments will be worthwhile, either. There are more than a few percentage points that I’d like to have back.
Of course, when you consider the prospect of Paradise, the whole point becomes moot. If it should happen that you get bored with the trombone then you will have wasted a mere fifty hours out of infinitely many hours. In a very real sense, this is 0%. And the thought of being able to do (practically) anything with no consequences for any mistake is tempting.
Given all of this, it seems unsurprising that many Witnesses seem to live in a state of suspended animation, watching and waiting for a bright, shiny world with no rough edges.
“Stagnant Waters.”
frozen-in-time-2The obvious problem with postponing one’s ambitions for the future is that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have the best track record when it comes to predicting the future.
Essentially, what Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing is outsourcing their hopes and dreams to a future that, in all probability, will never arrive. The result is a bizarre state of moratorium- the average Witness seems to have little interest in learning, growing or experiencing anything in this world deeply.
Some that I know have been stuck in the cycle for years. They watch the same DVD’s and TV shows over and over again, avoiding anything new. Some witnesses in moratorium will spend an inordinate part of their time imagining what they will say and do in the New System. Personally, I know more than a few who have figured out where they will live and how they will decorate. This is anecdotal evidence, of course. But I have seen the sentiments reflected in too many Witnesses to ignore the trend.
A witness in moratorium might view further education as a chore rather than an enlightenment. If they travel, they stick to the well-traversed paths and spend far too much time in the hotel room. The conversation is shallow and uncontroversial. Above all, there is no ambition to be found anywhere. Some use the Paradise hope as a “Get out of Sorrow Free” card- why deal with the tough realities of illness and death when they are just transient to you? And through it all they wait for their real life to begin. The rut slowly becomes a trench.
What’s to be done?
dawnThat is the big question. Almost certainly far too big given that philosophers have struggled with the question of the ideal way to live life since antiquity.
There is the possibility that some Witnesses might be so invested in the Paradise that they will never let go. For everyone else–myself included-the solution seems to simply be coming to terms with mortality in one way or another. Though it’s so easy to say and so very hard to do, actively seeking out new experiences is one of the best ways to make life worth living. Self-discovery, engaging with the world, formulating and achieving goals- these are the ingredients for a Paradise right here and now.
I think Wirrow put it best in his stream-of-consciousness entitled “and a new earth”:
deep inside you there is a roaring fire
that is not cooled by comfort or tamed by fear
a fire that burns in all things
a fire that can drag your fellow beings out of stagnant waters
and re-imagine your world with no leader or station
everything in this world is intoxicating
everything is on fire all the time
and you are bound only by the limits of your imagination- everything else will follow
the world will follow
as above, so below
a new heaven and a new earth
Maybe we just need to make a new Earth for ourselves.
12647700_809667592492092_2145013225_n
– P B
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← Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
107 Responses to The Friday Column: “And a new Earth.”
Newer Comments →
eyes opened says:
February 19, 2016 at 9:43 am
Thank you for this well written and thought provoking article. I have family that have put their lives on hold and it makes me sad. I contemplate every day how I might reason with them, but at this point I would simply be cut off more than I already am. Perhaps I will reach the point where I will cast off my fear of abandonment and speak out. In the meantime I keep hoping they will wake up.
Regards
Reply
Peggy says:
February 19, 2016 at 9:43 am
PB,
This article is very profound. I wish I could explain the way I feel as well as you. The carrot was dangled in front of me for most of my 55 years of life. But, I slowly realized that there is so much to live for and experience now. I am actively seeking out new experiences. I am on a path of self-discovery. You are correct, these are the ingredients for a Paradise right here and now. Wirrow put it very well. I always had that roaring fire inside me. The Watchtower was trying to cool and tame it. Never again shall I let them attempt that control.
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
February 21, 2016 at 3:24 am
This really touched a nerve…I have just started my University degree …. Im 57 … I am only now begining to think of my health and well being … I am only now thinking of places I want to see and things I want to do before I ‘kick the bucket’ … I am in a precarious financial position and I am trying to do something about it …. why am I only doing this now?… because I was brought up by parents who looked down on anyone who put these things ahead of their ‘relationship with Jehovah’…. and was told when young and obtained a place at Uni… ‘if you can do that you can pioneer’… I admit I frequently put my critical thinking ability on a back burner … sometimes I didnt feel strong enough for the fight… sometimes I just threw myself into the ministry and the association of my ‘friends’…. most of whom have left me now… I always used to think…’in the new system’…. now in not amazing health and with a body that needs a radical overhaul I find myself free of mind… and I think I should say…’FREE OF MIND!’…. It is wonderful…and I thank this site…contributors like ruthlee and covert fade…and ones long left like excelsior… you have helped me to stop putting things off and for whatever time I hsve left on this earth I will live and be the authentic me!
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
February 22, 2016 at 6:14 am
Why is this comment still awaiting moderation after 2 days?…there is nothing in it that breaks the rules.
Reply
Tara says:
February 23, 2016 at 11:24 am
It may be the capitals…. we had a guy on here who posted in capitals for his own reasons. I think it just sends a red flag up. Nothing to do with the post.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 23, 2016 at 1:20 pm
@idontknowhatodo
Good for you on starting your University degree! It’s never too late to improve your life. True, it may have been easier if started when you were younger, but that’s the past. This is the present and you are building a better future. The key thing I find in recovering from the negative impact of this cult is: Don’t dwell on the past. Additionally, you will be bringing your life’s perspectives into your degree program which will give you a flavor for your your coursework that younger students will not have.
With all these positive steps, you may have to change your screen name to idoknowhatodo.
WS
Reply
alanv says:
February 19, 2016 at 10:43 am
This is not a subject we think about much probably, but its so true that many witnesses put their life on hold and do the Watchtower’s will in life rather than their own.
Reply
kittycat says:
February 19, 2016 at 10:45 am
Thank you PB, this is relevant for all of us. We only have this moment. No dress rehearsals.
Reply
Winston Churchill says:
February 19, 2016 at 11:15 am
great article. So many witnesses put their lives on hold & do not realise their full potential . Why? Because 7 men keep telling them time & again Armageddon is just round the corner.
Reply
Caroline says:
February 19, 2016 at 11:56 am
The Watchtower religion makes a person feel like they have been sticking nickels in a slot machine and if you just stick with it long enough, it will pay off. After a person has stuck thousands of dollars into that slot machine, it is very difficult to pick yourself up and get away from the slot machine. All the scriptures that we learned and made us anxious and fearful like “just as in the days of Noah, sudden destruction came upon them” is hard to shake off.
It took me a long time to lose that fear of thinking “what if they (the Society) is right? Now when I hear people say something like “in the new world I will have time to do this or that” I can only pity them.
When people in the “truth” do make a career for themselves, they don’t apologize for it and they live in very nice homes and drive nice cars and more than not, they will be the ones appointed as elders and pioneers while the rest of us live from pay check to pay check and struggle because we didn’t make a career for ourselves because we were shamed into not going to college. It’s hard living poor while others who came into the “truth” after they went to college are all around you and living the good life right now.
The Society preaches that we are all equal and nobody is haughty because they might have a higher education than somebody else but even though those people might not think of themselves as haughty because of their education, we still can’t help but feel short-changed when we go into their homes and see the cars they drive and we don’t have those things. Those people are not waiting for the new world. They are living the good life now and they can play instruments and they can go on vacations and the rest of us have to wait for the new world to enjoy the good life.
Reply
Lydia says:
February 19, 2016 at 1:36 pm
That´s exactly it!
Reply
Palo says:
February 19, 2016 at 4:25 pm
thanks for interesting slot machine analogy Caroline, huge amount of resources / sacrifices well-intentioned person invests in this life-style can really make the leaving process mentally way way harder….
on the other hand, when you adress people in the congregation who are living good life here and now (because of their career choices), you mention things like their nice cars and housing, and IMHO it is questionable if those deserve so many regrets about not having them…..
Could we agree that the anti-education policies are more harmful because they prevent people from working in fields where they could use their skills in much more useful way?
I know many intelligent and goodhearted sisters and brothers that would make great physicians, teachers, lawyers, journalists if they were not strongly discouraged from this way of serving mankind, unfortunately deciding for way less stimulating jobs with very low potential for personal development?
I live in one of the European countries with the lowest standard of living but I realize it is one of the wealthiest countries from a world perspective and I think that majority of the world population would be happier and better off if they could have an education that would enable them to do for a living sth what they could really enjoy, what would speak to their inner self, that would challeng them, sth that they could be passionate about….rather than to have a career that would afford them fancy cars and a houses…
I still dream, even though i am almost 30 now, about going to a medical university… I might be the oldest in the class, but hey, still not that tragical, being a cult survivor :)
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
February 19, 2016 at 6:13 pm
@ Palo. You should do it Palo. You are still young and have time. I became a JW around 20 years old and wanted to do something with my life. I held back bc of not wanting to be a bad JW. I took a job that was labor and nothing against labor. I was in a union that paid decent wages but it was a very Boring Job and di not stimulate my mind. When I was about 38-40 I made a change. I studied and got license for my own business and did very well. It is stimulating work and I enjoy it.
I am getting cloe to a retirement age and could have retired 10 years ago but Like what I do and I make great money now. The Jw’s like to Gossip about me saying I became Materialistic. Which I did not yet Many have come to me for a loan many times and I do help many out. Some do not pay back even though they promise to.
My Pioneer wife is so Materialistic and spends money like crazy on nothing. I even caught her after she sent the WT Society $40k for a “LOAN”She ever asked me if it was OK to do that. I was furious and demanded it back from them. They did send it back after 90 days. We are no longer living together after many years . She is from a wealthy European country also and I am an American. We both grew up poor but she cannot stop spending and tries to make JW’s think she is making a sacrifice to pioneer? it is a joke. Do not give up Palo. Go for it. You are young still.
If you do not 10 years from now you will be sitting around wishing you had done it.
Do you still attend meetings and are Active JW?
Reply
BABY says:
February 22, 2016 at 4:31 am
Yes I am an activ JW. I think it very important to concentrate our mind on what jehovah and Jesus did for us
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/memorial/
Also see this video
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/memorial/remember-jesus-death/
Reply
dee2 says:
February 22, 2016 at 12:24 pm
@BABY
Why should we believe that the WT’s teaching about living forever on a Paradise Earth is correct?
Bad Penny says:
February 22, 2016 at 12:57 pm
BABY –
So the Memorial is THE most important date of the year.
The Governing Body are THE ONLY TRUE CHANNEL on earth?
They are surely going to celebrate on the correct day aren’t they? March 23rd 2016 Right?
Oh my God, there is one hell of a bombshell about to drop on this one!!
WATCH THIS SPACE!!
Caroline says:
February 22, 2016 at 2:10 pm
Baby, I remember maybe 30 years ago or more, I had gone in service on the day of the Memorial and we were handing out invites to the Memorial that night and shock of shocks, a man that I had given an invitation to the Memorial showed up that night and sat through the whole thing.
I thought it was done really well and made sense to anybody who would come, even strangers but at the end, the man was shocked that nobody partook. He must have thought we were a bunch of Satanists, not true Christians and this probably the reason why: We probably were and this is why:
Satanists don’t partake of the emblems either. They pass the bread and wine but they don’t partake because they are showing how much they don’t respect the death of Jesus Christ.
If you take the Scriptures for what they really say and you were actually remembering Jesus’ death and respecting it, you would partake because at Matthew 26:26-28 the Bible says: “As they continued eating, Jesus took a loaf and after saying a blessing, he broke it and giving it to the disciples, he said: “Take, eat. This means my body.” Also, he took a cup and having given thanks he gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my blood of the covenant, which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.”
So, Jesus had passed the cup and the bread and he said that his blood for to be poured out in behalf of “many” for forgiveness of sin. When he said “many”, he was talking about other people, other than just the twelve at the table who were supposedly the only ones in a covenant relationship with Jesus.
There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that only the apostles were the only ones that Jesus’ blood applied to for forgiveness of sins.
When you read all the scriptures that the Society wants you to read before the Memorial, can you make sense of all the contradictions in the four accounts when it comes to the last days and resurrection as found in the Bible? I remember doing all the Bible reading for the Memorial one year and all it did was confuse me.
Tara says:
February 22, 2016 at 4:14 pm
Whats going on BP?
Bad Penny says:
February 23, 2016 at 4:32 am
TARA – ‘What’s going on BP’ –
I’m still doing research on this one, but it appears that the Society have been, and continue to celebrate the Memorial of Christ’s death on the evening of Nisan 14, which after sundown becomes the 15th. The actual day Jesus celebrated with his disciples was the evening before, i.e. the end of Nisan 13, after sundown which started the 14th. He was arrested that same evening and put to death at 3pm (still the 14th). By sundown, (the evening JWs perform their ritual, which is now Nisan 15th) he was already in the tomb.
Too many scriptural references and detailed research to write here.
LLOYD – I really need to do an article on this. Any chance??
dee2 says:
February 23, 2016 at 11:10 am
BABY,
What are your answers to the following questions raised by
ex-GB member Raymond Franz in his book CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, 4th edition, pg. 330?
‘What plain statement in scripture could anyone, Governing Body member or anyone else, point to and say: “Here the Bible clearly says”:
– That Christ’s words in connection with the emblematic bread and wine, “Do this in remembrance of me”, do not apply to all persons putting faith in his ransom sacrifice? What scripture makes such statement?
– That Christians are separated into two classes, with a different relationship to God and Christ, on the basis of an earthly or a heavenly destiny? Where is this said? ‘
dee2 says:
February 23, 2016 at 12:19 pm
BABY,
Should the JWs even be commemorating the memorial of Christ’s death?
1Corinthians 11:25-26:
“In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death UNTIL HE COMES.”
The JWs teach that Jesus Christ has already come – in 1914 Jesus began active rulership toward all the world, his kingdom officially taking power; in 1914 Jesus became “present”, invisible to human eyes, but now beginning a judgement period for all his professed followers and for the world.
So the JWs should have ceased commemorating the memorial of Christ’s death since according to their theology, Jesus has already come.
http://mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/1914.html
dee2 says:
February 23, 2016 at 12:29 pm
@Bad Penny,
Something else to consider when doing your research:
There is in fact a difference in the chronology of Jesus’ death among the four gospels:
According to John’s gospel, Jesus was immediately taken off to be crucified on the afternoon of the Day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14).
However, according to Mark’s Gospel, Jesus wasn’t even arrested until later that night and was placed on the cross at 9:00 the next morning, the day of Passover (Mark 15:25).
So John claims that Jesus was executed the afternoon when the Passover lambs were sacrificed in the temple (Day of Preparation), but Mark claims that he was executed the following morning, after the lambs had been eaten (Day of Passover).
People have tried to reconcile this difference but have not been able to do so. Bart Ehrman in his book: “Jesus Apocalyptic Prophet of The New Millennium”, pg. 32 – 36, makes the point that though the difference can’t be reconciled, it can be explained:http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1999_ehrman_jesus-apocalyptic-prophet.pdf
Vox Populi says:
February 20, 2016 at 2:55 am
Palo – I fell into that trap of not pursuing further education as a result of the Org’s stance on it when I was younger and it held me back in more ways than I care to dwell on it. In the end it was I that suffered. It was I that had no sense of purpose. It was I that wasted years by living aimlessly. Eventually I decided that I was going to follow my own path and couldn’t care less what anyone else thought. So, while I was still young enough to make a go of it, I studied further and improved my lot in life. My only regret is that I did not do it sooner. Palo, you need to do what is right for you and your circumstances and don’t let anyone come in the way of your plans and what you want to achieve in life. Best wishes with whatever you decide.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:06 am
Palo,
Don’t give up on your dream. I attended and graduated from a university later in life. Was the best decision I ever made.
WS
Reply
Tara says:
February 20, 2016 at 8:53 am
I like your analogy of the slot machine. That is EXACTLY what it is like. You keep putting your money in and pressing the button… or is that pulling a handle? I don’t know, we were always taught gambling was bad. Maybe I’ll go play the slots. More chance of beating the house than the new system arriving tomorrow.
One of our elders was/is/will probably keep on, complaining about not ‘owning’ his own home. The ‘end’ was just around the corner so why own.. we will rent and have a big beautiful house in the new system… now he and his wife have nothing to show for their money… he is resentful but still keeps putting his money into the slot machine.
I think many are deep down resentful that they didn’t take that leap of faith and get a Uni. education but opted for the more rank and file jobs. After all you won’t need a certificate on the wall in paradise…. Now with many reaching retirement and nothing in the bank but a state pension times are looking hard but still the money goes in the slot machine.
I can’t say anything really. I did go into further education and had a great job with prospects but when I moved country my qualifications didn’t follow…. I fell into a trap of putting money in the slot machine and now I face a bleak future financially and alone. I guess I will save up the pennies I no longer put in the slot machine and hope there is enough to supplement state pension. Thank you GB for nothing.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 20, 2016 at 4:22 pm
Sadly most JWs sacrifice the present banking on a future that will never come. How many missed opportunities because they were told that by such and such date, or before a certain generation dies off, or before the end of the century. I have heard so many JWs say “it can’t be more than 5 years off.” I have heard that since I was a child and now I’m in my forties. Sometimes opportunity does knock only once – when it does we need to grab a good hold and make the best of it instead of waiting around for false promises made by self appointed prophets.
WS
Reply
C M says:
February 19, 2016 at 12:14 pm
PB You are hella funny dude LMFAO. But I really understand your article I am literally at a point in my life where I only once in a blue moon check ex JW sites because I really do not care anymore I am not even angry anymore ( I was really pissed at the beginning and I understand all the emotions people go through ). But honestly I hope this reaches those people who have recently left or been kicked out that they should live life to the fullest there is so much to see and do and places to visit and people to meet and we should enjoy all the free time we have. I see JW’s who are out in service and remember all the time i was dedicating to this religion and I am so glad that at my early mid twenties I have left and enjoying life and pity witnesses who are so convinced that the end is near and that they must dedicate their lives and time to the religion so that they can enjoy life in the paradise that will never come. Alot live in poverty because they decide to regular pioneer and only work part time and can hardly afford a car or a hotel room for when they go to a convention. I think that the later in life people leave the more hurt they feel because they realize they have wasted the better years of their lives serving this religion. Actually current jws my age and younger are really JW’s in name only I still talk to many of them and they go to college and smoke weed and party and etc and yet still go to field service and etc. it’s kinda funny actually. Neways great article.
CM
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Beverly Anne says:
February 19, 2016 at 12:40 pm
When I grow up, I want to be a writer just like you!
For me, there is no higher compliment on your writing ability to pay you than this.
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Jarred Booth says:
February 19, 2016 at 1:27 pm
Don’t forget how they talk about getting a brand new house in Paradise, while at the same time they annually publish info about donating your actual house to the organization (along with whatever else they’d have you part with).
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Lydia says:
February 19, 2016 at 1:32 pm
Well, I think that not having a hope for a better life on a paradise earth can be extremely crushing for somebody who has hoped for this all their life! One must remember that more than 80% of earth´s population is living under extreme poverty and simply cannot MAKE this life a paradise for him/herself. What about all those who are very ill or disabled or blind or deaf. How can THEY “travel and see the world” as it were NOW??? How can THEY experience anything else but pain and suffering in this life? I think what most people truely forget is that not everybody on this planet is fortunate enough to even be born in a developed country where there is education for all, let alone sanitary facilities! I do think that putting one´s life on hold for something that “might” come true in the future is wrong. But I think it is quite sad if there is really no hope for the majority of the suffering and dirt poor people and also for the suffering and endangered animals. I can definitely see why so many cling to this hope that they read into the Bible. It is because the quality of life right now is very very bad for most people. And if you work a full time job, there is just not enough time to do anything. And a 2 week vacation out of a year just doesn´t cut it in my opinion! I am still very new to being awake myself and I still have lots of questions. My sister for example is a devout JW and she and our mom are probably one of THE most negative people I have ever dealt with when it comes to THIS system. I think that is wrong as well. They really put their life on hold in many ways (i.e. trying to loose weight but hope for a miracle to be made slim in the new world instantly). My sister constantly says:”Yeah, in this shitty world that we live in…” Everything is very negative to her ever since they learned the “truth” and she and our mom constantly await Armageddon to come very very soon.
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Winston Smith says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:16 am
@Lydia
There is certainly nothing wrong with hoping for a better future. To your point, many do not have the opportunity to pursue a better life. Does that not make such opportunities much more precious that they should squandered because of the ideals of a cult? So many could be working not only to better themselves, but to make the world a better place for others. Sadly though they put it on hold for a promise that has gone unfulfilled for almost 150 years.
WS
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Lydia says:
February 24, 2016 at 7:33 am
Yes, I understand your point very well! Probably almost 8 million people are doing nothing worth while! That´s too bad! But when you would argue like a Witness about the 150 years delay or however long, they would just quote the Bible that people will mock and say: “where is this End of yours??? Just like in Noah´s day, etc., etc., etc.”
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Winston Smith says:
February 24, 2016 at 8:20 am
Yes, I am aware of their arguments. But my counter argument is Deuteronomy 18:20-22 “But the prophet who dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’ You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.”
1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1945, 1950, 1975, “this generation,” “before the end of the twentieth century”
So many failed predictions show they have not spoken in the Lord’s name but rather according to their own faulty nature (compare John 8:44).
WS
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Caroline says:
February 24, 2016 at 9:12 am
So many Witnesses are “craving” the day of Jehovah because they are longing for the “new system” of things but actually the Bible says “woe to those who are craving the day of Jehovah” (Amos 5:18-20) because it says will be darkness and no light and gloom.
Every time a Witness talks about how bad things are or about sicknesses, etc. they will always say “we need the new system” but do they ever think about all the stuff that is supposed to happen first?
The newest video the Society has about remembering Jesus at the Memorial has all those people young and in good health and perfect weather and good food etc. but they never think to put into those videos all the blood, guts and gore to get rid of all the people who don’t want to worship Jehovah at Armageddon. They make people dream only good dreams and never the nightmare of Armageddon which would be darkness and gloom and dead bodies laying around all over the place.
It’s all about making people not think about reality but fantasies to escape the real world around them.
If you are on your death bed, then maybe it’s a good time to think about waking up in the “new world” but if not on your death bed, it’s so much better to live in the real world and not live in a fantasy world of make-believe and not to put your “real” life on hold but to live it to the fullest and accomplish something with that precious once in a life time life.
Riley says:
February 19, 2016 at 2:18 pm
I hope people stop wasting the small amount of time we have on this earth and do whatever it is they want. Stop wasting time shunning family stop wasting time in a cult you know isn’t true but keep hanging on for family or friends who don’t actually care about you. Go live your life without apologizing to others. It’s your life things can be hard at the start but you know that the jw are full of it so stop wasting time. People say it’s not that easy and your right it’s not but guess what that’s how it goes. Nothing worth doing usually is easy. I’ve been out for 3 years now I’m 24 I wasn’t a great witness when I was younger but I genuinely tried to do my best at the time of my disfellowshipping. I was kicked out on my butt and tried to come back missing only 4 meetings in 9 months but that still wasn’t good enough for them. So I said you know what I’m just going to follow my heart and not something I never truly believed and guess what life has never been better. Sure I lost some people but at the same time they are choosing to loose me in their lives. I thought we were close friends and family but it shows their true colours and how fake and plastic they really are. Trust me you’ll make new friends better friends people who won’t shun you because some old fart said so. So stop being scared of being yourself do what makes you happy and always follow your heart and you will never go wrong.
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Winston Smith says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:22 am
Good for you Riley!
You made the right choice in refusing to be controlled by this cult. No need to look back. It sounds like you have a good outlook and a satisfying life. All the best to you.
WS
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dee2 says:
February 19, 2016 at 2:33 pm
It is possible to live forever on a paradise earth?
1. Would a paradise earth be ecologically sustainable?
According to WT theology, all of the dead are to be resurrected on earth – can the earth accommodate the resurrected persons plus the JW Armageddon survivors?
How Many People Have Ever Lived On Earth? 108 billion as at mid-2011 according to Population Reference Bureau estimates:http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx
The earth’s land area is: 148 326 000 square km (57 268 900 square miles)
Based on these figures, the earth’s population density would be 728 persons per square km (1886 persons per square mile).
How does this compare to the current situation in China?
According tohttp://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population/
The current population of China is 1,380,045,159 as of Friday, February 19, 2016, based on the latest United Nations estimates.
The total land area of China is 9,390,784 square km (3,625,800 square miles).
Based on these figures, the current population density of China is 147 persons per square km (381 persons per square miles).
So the population density of a paradise earth would be about 5 times that of China. Would this be ecologically sustainable?
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dee2 says:
February 19, 2016 at 2:35 pm
It is possible to live forever on a paradise earth? cont’d:
2. Will the earth last forever?
It is a scientific fact that the sun being a star, will eventually die like all stars do. As the sun goes through its death throes it will either consume the earth or simply render life on earth impossible:http://www.space.com/14364-earth-consumed-red-giant-star-5b-years.html
The sun cannot go on burning forever as it has a finite source of hydrogen fuel which will eventually be exhausted as the hydrogen is consumed by the nuclear fusion process that converts it into helium and light energy – the light energy is needed to sustain life on earth.
3. Was man created immortal or is mortality the natural order of life on earth?
Adam and Eve were never created immortal – whether or not they sinned, they would need to eat from the tree of life in order to live forever hence God’s banning them from the Garden of Eden after they sinned in order to prevent them from eating from the tree of life and living forever as Genesis 3:22 explains.
Animals and vegetation did not inherit sin, yet all living animals and vegetation die as the natural order of life.
Mortality is the natural order of life on earth (given that the earth’s capacity is finite):
Ecclesiastes 3:19:
“For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.”
1Peter 1:24:
“For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away.”
Ecclesiastes 3:1, 2:
“There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die…..”
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Winston Smith says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:27 am
Good points dee2. It has always struck me that everything thing on this planet has a finite life cycle. Plants, fish, birds, bacteria, etc. They all begin life, grow and reproduce and eventually die. Nothing is eternal.
WS
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Winston Smith says:
February 20, 2016 at 6:31 am
I have never had a chance to research this myself, but a JW elder once told me that there was no word in Hebrew that meant forever. What is translated forever literally means to time indefinite.
WS
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dee2 says:
February 21, 2016 at 9:38 am
******Adam and Eve were never created immortal – why would there be a need for a Tree of Life if Adam and Eve were created immortal? What purpose would the Tree of Life serve if Adam and Eve were created immortal?
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FadingTruth says:
February 19, 2016 at 2:37 pm
“Personally, I know more than a few who have figured out where they will live…”
According to August 2015 Watchtower, they no longer have that option. JWs will be told where to live and what work they will be doing:
“Today, of course, we do not know where each one of us may be assigned to live in the new system of things. However, cooperation will bring us contentment and great happiness as we do Jehovah’s will wherever we live on earth at that time.
“But what if we were directed to perform a particular aspect of the work that did not appeal to us? Would we submit to that direction by doing our best to carry out and even enjoy our assignment?”
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Winston Churchill says:
February 19, 2016 at 3:41 pm
@Fading Truth. That August 2015 Watchtower made me really think too especially the wording ‘ we do not know where we will be assigned to live in the New System & ‘ we might be assigned work we might not like’ .. What like digging graves for billions of dead mutilated bodies of babies,children,women etc?? Or I won’t be allowed to live in my luxury home by the sea playing with the Dolphins but I may have to live in an apartment with 5 other brothers while we spend the next 100 years clearing away rubble of all the demolished buildings caused by Armageddon . Wow !! Realism has hit me between the eyeballs . Perhaps I will enjoy myself now?
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JBob says:
February 20, 2016 at 12:55 am
Hmm, so now the “freedom” of Paradise–each one under his fig tree and eating from his own vine–is gone?
Commie b*st*rds..
Interesting the assumption that a massive organization will continue to be required once everyone has “atoned” and been reconciled to God. But, what should really widen eyes is how this “utopia” has no real definition except the artist representations in literature–now gone, except for the website .pdf’s stock photos. Speculations of humans as weaners roasting on a spit–wait, I thought the Lord Jehovah was not one for punishment by fire? Hmmm…
Conflicting info and contradicting views plus the self-absorbed leadership are a warning to stay away from this festering pot of unconditional obedience = death.
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Tara says:
February 20, 2016 at 9:02 am
OMG I never thought about that! Wow. Talk about being smacked in the face with a wet cod fish! Now they have control over where we live! screw them.
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Chiafade says:
February 24, 2016 at 1:33 pm
Yep, Watchtowers paradise earth is no different than the current status of JW life. A not so subtle way of telling the JWs that if they want to live in that earth they have to keep their current pattern of life because, really, life won’t be much different.
Thats one hell of a boring mundane future. No thanks.
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Bright Lightbulb says:
February 19, 2016 at 2:52 pm
This perhaps doesn’t exactly pertain to this article but the video was so excellent I had to share. One of the better ones out the IMO;
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Lydia says:
February 19, 2016 at 4:15 pm
Yes, this was a real eye-opener for me 2 nights ago!
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dee2 says:
February 19, 2016 at 11:13 pm
@Bright Lightbulb
The video is in fact pertinent to the article:
It shows just why we can’t have confidence in any of the WT’s doctrines including the doctrine about the Paradise earth. The WT’s track record of doctrinal changes and flip-flops despite their claim to be God’s only spokesperson on earth, certainly brings the credibility of all of the WT’s doctrines, including the Paradise earth doctrine, into question.
Not only is the credibility of WT doctrine questionable because of the WT’s track record of doctrinal changes and flip-flops; the WT’s doctrinal credibility is also questionable for another reason:
As aptly stated by ex-GB member Raymond Franz in his book CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, pg. 330, the teachings which the JWs claim make them unique, their “Confession of Faith” so to speak, are not supported by simple, clear-cut, plain, direct statements in the Bible; there is just no plain statement in the Bible which a GB member or anyone else could point to and say “Here the Bible clearly says……..”
Every single one of the JW’s “Confession of Faith” require intricate explanations, complex combinations of Bible texts and, in some cases, what amounts to mental gymnastics, in an attempt to support them.
The WT’s:
– track record of doctrinal changes and flip-flops, and
– the convolution of their unique doctrines
certainly bring the credibility of all of the WT’s doctrines, including the Paradise earth doctrine, into question.
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ruthlee says:
February 20, 2016 at 5:04 am
This was the one! the one I had been waiting for. Thanks bright light bulb. Having trawled all the utube sites I could find when I heard this bro I actually thanked GOD because he is so lucid reasonable and logical. I have never heard an exjw reason as this man did he seemed to come to his natural conclusion with the phony org without pain, malice or an axe to grind. My axe is still on the wheel being sharpened! I needed to hear this voice of reason so thanks for posting this most valuable testimony. Note to author what a superb piece of writing, I think you summed up all of what we have concluded and we seem to be on the same page but with differing beliefs and I think get along pretty well (despite the odd troll raising it’s ugly head on occasion).I have just finished Crisis of Conscience I ran the whole gamut of emotion that we all have to face and do so at our own pace on this journey. What staggered me about Ray Franz’s thoughts is that I came to pretty much the same conclusions about doctrine as he did before I read the book. Same line of thought. Also I felt genuine offence at how he was treated so shameful ,wicked even. Sorry if ive gone off topic but I think the carrot analogy is so true the donkeys only see what is in front of them and occasionally have a kicking to keep them in line but eternal life on earth is abou tas promising as a carrot. ruthlee
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Tara says:
February 20, 2016 at 9:29 am
Brilliant. Well done JT. ‘Human opinions elevated to divine status’. The opinion of the writing dept.
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Jaime says:
February 22, 2016 at 6:08 am
Thank you Bright Lightbulb and JT. This video gives me some talking points for my sleeping spouse. Thank you so much. I’m trying to be thankful for the little changes I see in him, like not caring about rated R movies, and going out with co-workers. He even asked if maybe all congregations have servant bodies as lame as the two he has come to know well. He has seen ours go downhill, and wants to change halls. However, he wonders if it will be better. I shrugged. Sometimes I’m just speechless.
Sorry for the digression.
Thank you PB for your excellent writing.
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Bati says:
February 19, 2016 at 3:15 pm
was awakened about 3 months ago and was shocked when learning the truth about a Paradise, I was raised as a JW and now I’m 42 years old. It did take a few weeks to digest it, because it was all I knew. A few meetings before I stopped going, we had studied a Watchtower that spoke about visualizing yourself in Paradise and commenting on what you’ll be doing there. It’s true we can do it all NOW and not wait. I also felt angry because I had wasted many years of my youth serving in another country and left a well-paid job to be a pioneer and live poorly. 23 years later I’m still struggling to pay my bills because of this and my parents not permitting us to go to College. Most of the jobs that I apply to require a Degree and I have to explain why I don’t have a Degree. Which is kind of embarrassing. So I have to lie. Because of this I always have to accept to work for a company that doesn’t require a degree, which means less pay and less opportunities. I know it’s not too late to go to College now but I hate school anyways lol and would of gone for art or design instead of sitting in an office.
This article made me think about a brother from the congregation I was attending. He had bought a 2 family house. He invited us over, and I can’t ever forget how guilty he felt for buying this house. Trying to let us know he has good intentions when buying this house and it wasn’t for materialistic reasons. Explaining that it’s a good investment because in 2 years he has plans to leave his job and focus more on preaching and with the money from the renter he can accomplish this.
I thought back then that he’s not doing anything wrong. Why is buying a home a crime?? I noticed that JWs that are well off and live their life a little feel guilty for doing so. Sad how the Watchtower has strongly influenced this thinking.
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Jeffreycanning says:
February 19, 2016 at 4:23 pm
Great stuff, i don’t have enuf smarts to do what you do, so i fantasize that i am writing these articles and helping people and that is what you are doing so on behalf of all of us who can’t write profound meaningful articles such as this keep it up… I am out of the watchtower ‘rut’ having realised the only difference between a rut and a grave, is the dimensions…
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Grace says:
February 19, 2016 at 4:55 pm
And don’t forget how unsympathising that thought process is (waiting for paradise) for those that have suffered from child abuse, rape or other traumatic experiences have occurred & you’re told to just bottle up your pain for the new system & nothing gets done about it in the here & now.
You’re feelings get trampled on over & over because everyone is making excuses, then you feel like you’ve been tossed into the too hard basket because you lack faith in the new system.
I believe that this has been part of the core issues that seemed to have presented itself with ARC, nothing getting done & victims left to just get over it.
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Alexandria R says:
February 19, 2016 at 6:00 pm
PB I like your picture. Makes me laugh in a good way. My fully indoctrinated sister believes we will live on this earth forever and be like Adam and Eve. I said to her, “that’s impossible, the weather wouldn’t allow us to be naked at night.” Then she said, “oh, noone really knows how it’s all going to be in the new system, we have to put our trust in Jehovah and wait and see. It’s up to him. Whatever he wants will be fine” I feel her answer is a brush off. Her daughter-in-law who was born in the truth went to college and became a school teacher without falling out of the truth. Now she teaches English at a school in Chindu, China and our neaphew is an elder in Chindu, China. They’ve visited Taiwan. One time, while they visited here my sister told her daughter-in-law she is a bad example for others in the truth because she went to college. Oh brother !!!
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dee2 says:
February 19, 2016 at 11:17 pm
@Alexandria R
The following article may be of interest: it looks at the Bible’s description of the original paradisaical conditions in the Garden of Eden (e.g. Adam & Eve running around naked) and discusses whether or not it was possible for those original conditions to actually exist:http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/faqs/paradise-earth/
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Cobb says:
February 19, 2016 at 10:19 pm
Can you imagine anything closer to a real Hell than living forever and ever with no chance out, under the thumb of overseers who tell you what to do, where to live, and what your ‘job’ will be for the next billion years? Where instead of having eternity to live in freedom and joy and expansiveness, you are still being watched and judged and measured. I would definitely jump off the nearest cliff I could find.
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JBob says:
February 20, 2016 at 12:59 am
@Cobb – ahem, cliff you’re assigned from which to jump…
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Sharon says:
February 20, 2016 at 2:47 am
Your comments about JWs concept of the afterlife and what they think they have to do seems pretty accurate, but your comments about how Catholics and mainstream Protestants see afterlife and salvation are not at all accurate.
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Winston Smith says:
February 21, 2016 at 12:26 pm
@Sharon
Can you elaborate on the accepted views that Catholics and mainstream Protestants have on the afterlife? I don’t know about the author’s background, but for me, being raised a JW, I have no other point of reference than that which was presented through the Watchtower coloring of the issue. While l am sure it is the warped, I have no other point of reference. So can you elaborate?
WS
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Tara says:
February 21, 2016 at 1:19 pm
I was brought up Protestant and was told that when you die you go to heaven…. that was it. Hellfire was a Catholic doctrine. I asked what happens in heaven and was told not to worry about it.
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SIRIUS says:
February 20, 2016 at 7:51 am
For those who have a breath of critical reasoning, and perhaps a timely article.
Exoplanet Census Suggests Earth Is Special after All
A new tally proposes that roughly 700 quintillion terrestrial exoplanets are likely to exist across the observable universe—most vastly different from Earth
More than 400 years ago Renaissance scientist Nicolaus Copernicus reduced us to near nothingness by showing that our planet is not the center of the solar system. With every subsequent scientific revolution, most other privileged positions in the universe humans might have held dear have been further degraded, revealing the cold truth that our species is the smallest of specks on a speck of a planet, cosmologically speaking. A new calculation of exoplanets suggests that Earth is just one out of a likely 700 million trillion terrestrial planets in the entire observable universe. But the average age of these planets—well above Earth’s age—and their typical locations—in galaxies vastly unlike the Milky Way—just might turn the Copernican principle on its head.
Astronomer Erik Zackrisson from Uppsala University and his colleagues created a cosmic compendium of all the terrestrial exoplanets likely to exist throughout the observable universe, based on the rocky worlds astronomers have found so far. In a powerful computer simulation, they first created their own mini universe containing models of the earliest galaxies. Then they unleashed the laws of physics—as close as scientists understand them—that describe how galaxies grow, how stars evolve and how planets come to be. Finally, they fast-forwarded through 13.8 billion years of cosmic history. Their results, published to the preprint server arXiv (pdf) and submitted to The Astrophysical Journal, provide a tantalizing trove of probable exoplanet statistics that helps astronomers understand our place in the universe. “It’s kind of mind-boggling that we’re actually at a point where we can begin to do this,” says co-author Andrew Benson from the Carnegie Observatories in California. Until recently, he says, so few exoplanets were known that reasonable extrapolations to the rest of the universe were impossible. Still, his team’s findings are a preliminary guess at what the cosmos might hold. “It’s certainly the case that there are a lot of uncertainties in a calculation like this. Our knowledge of all of these pieces is imperfect,” he adds.
Take exoplanets as an example. NASA’s Kepler space telescope is arguably one of the world’s best planet hunters, but it uses a method so challenging that it is often compared with looking across thousands of kilometers to see a firefly buzzing around a brilliant searchlight. Because the telescope looks for subtle dimming in a star’s light from planets crossing in front of it, Kepler has an easier time spotting massive planets orbiting close to their stars. Thus, the catalogue of planets Kepler has found lean heavily toward these types, and smaller, farther-out planets are underrepresented, leaving our knowledge of planetary systems incomplete. Astronomers do use other techniques to search for smaller planets orbiting at farther distances, but these methods are still relatively new and have not yet found nearly as many worlds as Kepler. In addition, “everything we know about exoplanets is from a very small patch in our galaxy,” Zackrisson says, within which most stars are pretty similar to one another in terms of how many heavy elements they contain and other characteristics. The team had to extrapolate in order to guess how planets might form around stars with fewer heavy elements, such as those found in small galaxies or the early universe.
The scientists also have similar concerns about the galactic and cosmological inputs of their model but nonetheless they suspect that their final numbers are accurate to within an order of magnitude. With the estimated errors taken into account, the researchers conclude that Earth stands as a mild violation of the Copernican principle. Our pale blue dot might just be special after all. “It’s not too much of a fluke that we could arise in a galaxy like the Milky Way, but nevertheless, it’s just enough to make you think twice about it,” says Jay Olson from Boise State University, who was not involved in the study. Both he and Zackrisson think the Copernican principle could be saved by some unknown caveat to the findings. “Whenever you find something that sticks out…” Zackrisson says, “…that means that either we are the result of a very improbable lottery draw or we don’t understand how the lottery works.”
But Max Tegmark from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who also was not part of the research, thinks Earth is a colossal violation of the Copernican principle—not because of its location but because of its young age. “If you have these civilizations that had a 3.5-billion-year head start on us, why haven’t they colonized our galaxy?” asks Tegmark. “To me, the most likely explanation is that if the planets are a dime a dozen, then highly intelligent life evolves only rarely.” So should we feel insignificant? Should we be reduced to near nothingness? Not at all, he says. “It might be that one day in the distant future much of our universe will be teeming with life because of what we did here.”
credit to By Shannon Hall on February 19, 2016
xttp://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exoplanet-census-suggests-earth-is-special-after-all/
IMHO
dogstar
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dee2 says:
February 20, 2016 at 10:25 am
@SIRIUS
Interesting article. What in your opinion are the implications of these scientists’ findings that the earth may be special/unique as it seems to be the only planet in the universe with the conditions for life to exist?
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SIRIUS says:
February 20, 2016 at 11:52 am
@dee2
>>>What in your opinion are the implications of these scientists’ findings that the earth may be special/unique as it seems to be the only planet in the universe with the conditions for life to exist?
I can easily see the WT jumping all over this as one of those “I told you so”! meaning we are unique and alone!
Better is a perspective and comparison. The study is about 1 square inch of sandy beach on this entire planet. We don’t even have the means yet to detect earth like planets beyond what our technology currently allows. Still, it’s not conclusively saying there are NO other earth-like planets out there. As far as an opinion I’m siding on the affirmative.
IMHO
dogstar
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Big B says:
February 20, 2016 at 5:49 pm
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is nothing more than a time-bandit. That is the real crime here. They make you feel guilty for spending time and monies wanting to improve yourself especially when you should be serving them pro-gratis.
My deceased mother did not and my uncle, now in a nursing home, does not get visitors from the Kingdom Hall after being baptized for over 60 years. Why? Because they are the living proof that Armageddon is not “just around the corner”. The friends cannot face the reality of their own mortality. Pitiful, isn’t it. P.T. Barnum was credited as saying, “there’s a sucker born every minute”. Truer words were never spoken.
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Ken says:
February 20, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Nice article. I recall a brother who took the WT advice of making your paradise hope by talking about it in daily conversation. It is so odd when he talk about paradise when it is so irrelevant to the conversation. It make him look weird instead of sounding spiritual.
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Gary says:
February 21, 2016 at 1:43 pm
Sigh, wow is the the JW world heavy or what?!
Don’t bring me down ELO . . . ELO!, it must mean something!
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Pow says:
February 21, 2016 at 5:47 pm
They say “hope Springs eternal “, almost everyone has hopes, from winning the lotto, to curing cancer. But, what makes jw land somewhat unique is that both consciencely and unconsciously there is resistant to real and present solutions.
Case in point, almost ever talk, and ever door to door presentation, starts with how bad thinks are and only getting worse. When you converse with fellow jws it’s, how bad things are, never been worse..if you talk about how certain things are improving, we’ll, brother your faith is waning…we’re addict to bad news,
And frankly, the Awake does not offer practical solutions ,,,,oh, here, maybe you could sell firewood or lease out a room in your house….like that’s a huge help…problems is what grows this organization ….real solutions to problems, threaten it….that’s why, there’s a constant plea to quit your job, pioneer, sell your house, move away, in a other words, if your stable and happy, change..cut the lifeboats, work without a safety net…..
Reply
Bad Penny says:
February 21, 2016 at 6:40 pm
That little carrot looks so tasty, I think I’ll just have a bite – oooh, so sweet! What, I don’t have to die! I can live forever in paradise on earth!
Sounds familiar – Satan said to Eve, ‘You positively will not die, why in the very day of your eating from it you are bound to be like Gods, etc……
Who’s kidding who here, same old lie, same old serpent, except now he’s disguised as ‘The Governing Body’!
Talking about putting life on hold, a pioneer sister was so proud that her son and new daughter-in-law were serving at Bethel. I remarked that the young lady had wanted to start a family …. Oh, there’s plenty of time for that in the ‘New System’. I wonder how she will feel in fifty years time – childless, no pension, and no ‘paradise’ in sight. Surely, expectation postponed will make her heart sad.
Reply
Wip it says:
February 21, 2016 at 8:20 pm
When growing up you don’t think about old age, but eventually it happens & we start to see people dying of old age, then it starts to sink in, & here we are & still nothing has happened except we are getting older, the whole structure now is being dumbed down, old publications disappearing, we use tablets, & young people are being taught not to think, i woke up to reality with the help of a friend who asked me to research 607, not on the internet but by using real books.like my friend we are trapped due to family, but at least i am at peace with my knowledge of the real truth, when was the last time we heard an update on the whole king of the north/south stuff, all gone by the wayside, any body that is new won’t get to learn that, the 1914 lie is going to run out of steam, & on it goes, great comments here on this lastest post, thank you all
Reply
Bad Penny says:
February 22, 2016 at 4:31 am
Wip it –
It is so true, when you are young, old age seems far off. Why, when we were twenty, we used to think forty was old! Well, when you get there it ain’t. Then fifty, err … OK, the paradise must be coming soon, … sixty, yoiks, I’d better make a will!! I’m on my way to seventy, where have all the years gone? But, hey, I’m not dead yet!
I too ‘woke up’ when I discovered 607 was a fabrication. This makes 1914 just another date in mankind’s history when the world went mad!
Dear Wip it, don’t spend your remaining years in servitude just because of family and friends. You only have one chance to enjoy this life to the full. Pretend for your family, if you must, but don’t hold back from the pleasures of life because of them. So let’s eat, drink and be merry! Travel, make new friends …. if in the future days a deity does step in to sort things out – great. (I’m sure you are not wicked enough to have an adverse judgement should it ever come to that!)
Reply
ruthlee says:
February 22, 2016 at 5:32 am
I bunked off yet another meeting yesterday to go to see a band. Iv’e been missing since xmas. you know I think I may have had 4 or 5 txts in that time and none from my friend and fs partner is that not amazing. It is a good job i’m awake to the shallow stupid donkeys (no longer sheep in my view). The point is that these are not our friends and don’t want to spend paradise with anyone but them selves. Heaven help them when nasty resurrected ones come back and they have to spend hours and hours teaching and befriending those worldly people. Hey it will cut into all that leisure time, piano playing and petting pandas. What a reality check, that good little jdubs will have to be nice and welcoming to everybody even those nasty apostates who may get a new life then . OOOh I cant wait I think I may just sell my shack and give all my dosh to the poorboys of Brooklyn and go witnessing in needy land. But if I slip on the soap in the last hour it will be to no avail just eternal death. Well after a second thought I just say no to the carrot and plod on in this life being who I am and let those donkeys take a kicking from their elders and betters! Carrot cake anyone? ruthlee
Reply
Tara says:
February 22, 2016 at 7:45 am
I’ve been to half a meting since xmas Ruthlee. Same as you, I’ve had a couple of texts and a ‘we popped by’ post it on my door from two elders. In fact the most text were from an mc who flirts with me…… yes hes married and misses me. hmm.
lol remember the scene in Home Alone – if you dared to watch a Christmas show…. Kevin McCallister: [while watching “Angels With Filthy Souls”] Guys, I’m eating junk and watching rubbish! You better come out and stop me! Thats what I feel like shouting at them but I have no intention of letting them stop me.
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
February 22, 2016 at 7:57 am
Watchtower Babble and Tract Society is oblivious to this one fact.
Not everyone is in the construction trades. Nor would some people ever want to be. If your not in the trades, your best bet is to go to a local community college or a technical school to learn a skill that is marketable.
Another item Watchtower Babble and Tract Society has a hard time with is that Watchtower does not pay other people’s bills. See Watchtower has it easy. All they do is ask for money and people just cut them checks. You can hear the checkbooks come out of purses everywhere in their Kingdom Halls.
The above items are the reality of today’s world. I have seen older men beyond the retirement age not have any money in a 401k plan or any retirement savings due to Watchtower Babble and Tract Society reasonings. This is sad consequence of many elderly brothers where their family’s have to foot the bill.
Watchtower lives in a dream world called a “spiritual paradise”. In this world, people sing in choirs conducted by Governing Body member David Splane. In addition, they have their music videos and their happy construction videos showcasing their various talented brothers working as slaves. Also, do not forget the young brother trying to sell his cow. Does not that sound wonderful?
Reply
James Broughton says:
February 22, 2016 at 9:42 am
PB your article makes an excellent read but the average Witness might compare it to the scoffers living in the time of Noah. Sometimes one has to take a more theological approach and show with biblical evidence that their philosophy is incorrect. Wilbur Lingle asks the pertinent question: Am I to believe that it will be a wonderful thing to survive Armageddon, get rid of all the dead bodies and bones, clean up all this awful destruction, and then work extremely hard to build a beautiful earth so that all the wicked people who have ever lived can be resurrected and enabled to enjoy what the Witnesses have worked so hard for?
Reply
edy says:
February 23, 2016 at 4:36 am
Very true and that’s why when you are talking with any witness, you take one thing at a time. Some them correctly from the scriptures that the application is wrong, and is only meant for fit a preconceived doctrine. You have to be tactful, because this GB is becoming more like the pharisees everyday.
Reply
Winston Churchill says:
February 22, 2016 at 11:22 am
@PB . I really like the point you make about JWs postponing their ambitions for a future Paradise ,but as you say the GB have a terrible record for predicting future dates for Armagedon or the start of Paradise. So really many JWs have wasted their potential & opportunites to progress themselves emotionally, financially & physically . When after 30,40 or 50 years slaving for an organisation who has got an apalling track record of getting dates wrong since 1874 ( over 140 years) can anyone really believe God & Christ would feed these wrong dates & constant changing interpretation of scriptures so many times . I thought as Malachi says God doesn’t change . What a sad waste of lives for 8 million human beings to keep 7 men in a lap of luxury . Very very upsetting !!
Reply
edy says:
February 23, 2016 at 4:32 am
On Sunday, I had such discussion with my cousin and he referred to pr 4:18 about light getting brighter and I could only wonder about how great the darkness the GB has cast into their eyes really is.
I mean, someone can be a regular pioneer and even an elder without having a good understanding and application of the scriptures. All they will do is refer to a certain publication, most do not even read the cited scriptures in the publications.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 22, 2016 at 12:26 pm
@Baby
Why should we believe that the WT’s teaching about living forever on a Paradise Earth is correct?
Reply
Twmack says:
February 22, 2016 at 1:54 pm
There are so many aspects of this paradise earth that
when carried through to a logical conclusion become
absurd, risible.
As the resurrected are not allowed to marry they’ll be
brought back with surplus body parts. The women will
have no use for their mammary glands or ovaries, a mans
gonads will be no use to him. it’s certain that unmarried
people will not be allowed to have sex. (Oh dear, I’d rather
be one of the pandas)
In fact the need the whole purpose of the sexes will be
irrelevant. when the earth is full, procreation will end
no need any more for male and female.
Maybe Rutherford ‘s crazy idea that “We will all be brothers
together” is the answer.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 9:55 am
@Twmack
“There are so many aspects of this paradise earth that when carried through to a logical conclusion become absurd, risible.”
I recall a JW saying that she liked children very much and couldn’t come to terms with the idea that, according to JW theology, if man will be living forever on earth without dying, then at some point the ability to reproduce will have to cease given the earth’s finite capacity, and there eventually will just be an earth with only grown adults, no children. She said she couldn’t imagine an earth without children and so decided that she had better have her lot now since having children in the future paradise would cease. She seemed to have been very disturbed by this.
Reply
Songbird says:
February 24, 2016 at 10:07 am
The explanation I remember was that once the issue of ‘universal sovereignty’ was settled here on earth then Jehovah could make other planets habitable so humans could continue to reproduce after the earth is filled. Mind you, no scripture was cited in support of this speculation. I’ve since found out that this is very similar to Mormon doctrine.
Reply
Average Joe says:
February 24, 2016 at 11:01 am
The Bible states that God always creates with a purpose. That being the case, all the immense universe with its billions of stars & planets are purely physical, ie. for OUR benefit as humans. We can even see the majority of the universe with the naked eye so that tells me that God had/has in mind for us to populate other planets.
Also the idea that some JWs have that God will stop us procreating is absurd! Only man creates/makes stuff and then thinks, “oh crap; I didn’t realise it did that. I’d better change the design.” If God stopped us from procreating or resurrected ones from getting married again then it would be like him admitting he made a mistake with human design.
The not marrying WTS idea is another one of their “going beyond the things that are written” teachings. Having said that, there was a recent WT article where they admitted the context of that Bible verse referred to anointed ones so they don’t really know 100% (closest you’ll get to a “sorry, we were wrong” from the WTS)!
Reply
Wip it says:
February 22, 2016 at 4:53 pm
I have actually heard an Elder say that, that in the New System their will be no need to bear children, crapola, my Dear Mum said before dying that she had had a good life, i believe that she did, But i also believe that God is now being cruel, she was promised Eternal life, remember the proclamation “Millions now living will never die, & the change in the 1914 generation teaching now makes Jesus out to be a lie er,
Reply
Pow says:
February 23, 2016 at 1:03 pm
Wipe it, – the reason why there will be no need to have any children, is that the great crowd will immediately have to raise the 100000’s of misscarriages, babies, children and preteens of those of the heavenly class, who from 33.c.e down to 1935 lost their children before they reached adulthood. They will be in heaven so those on earth will have a hugh adoption agency operation here.
Reply
Grace says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:05 pm
Pow,
“Wipe it”. That’s really funny. Automatic speller can be hilarious at times.
miscarriages was one I often thought about too, then I thought that if miscarriages would be resurrected then the millions who got to breathe life but didn’t get to know Jah would have to have the same chance, it would only be fair but when you’re in that state of delusion you have to stop thinking too much.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 5:11 pm
@Grace
Yes “Wipe it”!
Wipe that damn WT Mumbo-Jumbo from your brain and free your mind!
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
February 22, 2016 at 6:19 pm
Don’t you just love when a Governing Body member explains Journalism Integrity to an award winning journalist in Portugal. Especially when Watchtower Babble and Tract Society does not include the names of the writers who write in their magazines. Nor, do they cite their sources for any publication they write. Isn’t writing your name on your paper the first requirement of Journalism 101. And, the second requirement is to cite your sources. Please David, don’t give an award winning journalist a lesson in journalism when your own people can’t put their name on their paper. A lesson I learned in first grade.
Reply
edy says:
February 23, 2016 at 4:26 am
I find this article very informative. Most do not understand what the Watchtower organisation is doing, especially when words like Jehovah’s organisation is used. I cannot blame them, most sincerely believe they are doing the right thing but not knowing that a group of men are sing them to achieve their aim.
I find this about the pharisees of jesus day. They didn’t commit immoral, or worship idols but why did Jesus reject them? Some of the reasons are hear and it’s a clear reflection of the GB and WT organisation
Pharisaic Laws
In contrast to the two commands of Christ, the Pharisees had developed a system of 613 laws, 365 negative commands and 248 positive laws… By the time Christ came it had produced a heartless, cold, and arrogant brand of righteousness. As such, it contained at least ten tragic flaws.
(1) New laws continually need to be invented for new situations.
(2) Accountability to God is replaced by accountability to men.
(3) It reduces a person’s ability to personally discern.
(4) It creates a judgmental spirit.
(5) The Pharisees confused personal preferences with divine law.
(6) It produces inconsistencies.
(7) It created a false standard of righteousness.
(8) It became a burden to the Jews.
(9) It was strictly external.
(10) It was rejected by Christ.https://bible.org/illustration/pharisaic-laws
Reply
Winston Smith says:
February 23, 2016 at 8:18 am
@edy
Excellent comparison between the GB and the Pharisees of Jesus day.
In reference to your other comment above, could the Pharisees have argued that all the added rules were simply new light in line with Prov 4:18? That’s the Watchtower’s excuse.
WS
Reply
Pow says:
February 23, 2016 at 9:36 am
Prov. 4:18 is half of the proverb, 4:19 is the other half,,,,where the wicked is constantly changing course.
Reply
Alexandria R says:
February 23, 2016 at 12:37 pm
edy, I like what you say, “this GB is becoming more like the pharisees everyday.” On jw broadcasting while Tony Morris talked about the new songs just released he called them “You brothers and sisters.” He made a Freudian slip. It shows there is separation, that’s what “you brothers and sisters’ means to me.
Reply
Caroline says:
February 23, 2016 at 6:06 pm
https://youtu.be/I0VIvdV2nw0
This is a really good video all Jehovah’s Witnesses and Ex-JW’s should watch.
Reply
Chiafade says:
February 24, 2016 at 2:19 pm
Great video and very relevant to the context of this article. Thanks for linking it.
Reply
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← Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
The Friday Column: “And a new Earth.”
Posted on February 19, 2016
carrot-dangle-donkeyEvery once in a while, I’m asked why I bother keeping up with current events in the world of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
My answer will usually depend on several factors, including, but not limited to: caffeine concentration in my bloodstream, looming University assignments and general satisfaction with this great probability engine that is life.
If conditions are unfavourable, I will likely mumble incoherently and return to scribbling on the wall with my trusty Crayola. (I find that there is a certain understated madness in the crayon that’s impossible to convey with any other marker. I recommend red for added effect.)
If conditions are favourable, however, my answer would be that keeping an eye on the activities of Watchtower and the Jehovah’s Witnesses is something of a civic duty; their troublesome beliefs continue to cause problems for past and current members alike. From the Governing Body’s stance on homosexuality and feminism to the endless barrage of uncomfortable questions posed by the Australian Royal Commission into Child Sexual Abuse, there is no shortage of people with a righteous axe to grind against Watchtower.
But perhaps the most insidious effect of Watchtower’s continued presence is the theological “eternal carrot” of the Paradise, tantalisingly dangled just out of reach of the Witness rank-and-file. As we shall see, Watchtower’s construction of the New System does nothing more than stunt the philosophical growth of the average Witness. How can this be so?
Paradise regained
When comparing the differences between the JW concept of afterlife with that of a more mainstream Christian religion, the contrasts appear stark.
Imagine for a moment that you are, say, a Catholic. You, dear Catholic, are given a certain amount of time on Earth to spend in righteous pursuits. Such as donating to homeless shelters, playing the harp and knitting bible verses into ugly woollen sweaters. (Or whatever it is that righteous people actually do. I wouldn’t know.) As an angel, having transcended the physical and gained a greater understanding of the inner workings of the universe, you play the harp some more and play an active role in your local “Holy Rollers” Angelic Bowling Team. Notice now that your afterlife in Heaven is merely a continuation of your existence on Earth.
And what if you are a Jehovah’s Witness instead?
After the eventual arrival of Armageddon (any day now) you are reunited with your loved ones on the Earth, rather than in Heaven. The infinite amount of free time now available to you can be utilised in various ways, including: spending time with friends, exploring the Earth, pursuing hobbies, raising a family, owning a panda as a pet. Etcetera
One conspicuous difference between these two philosophies is that the “rewards” for faithfulness as a Jehovah’s Witness are mostly activities that an ordinary human could work towards right now (with the exception of eternal life, for example). It’s true! You can go out today and buy some seeds to plant a garden! Invite your friends to the cinema to see the new Star Wars! You could become a zoologist or start a family of your own! Or both!
To synopsise: whereas a more mainstream afterlife is a continuation for life on Earth, the Witness afterlife is a replacement for life on Earth. While this glosses over the Witness doctrine regarding the 144,000 humans who are resurrected to heavenly status and rule with Jesus. However, if we confine our discussion to Witnesses with an earthly outlook, the point is equally valid.
Real life? Or just a fantasy?
Given that most activities available in Paradise are essentially within reach, why is it that the average Jehovah’s Witness doesn’t drop everything and start their new life a few years early? I can think of two reasons supported by Witness doctrine.
One. As an upright Witness, it is your responsibility to spend this time preaching the word of God in whatever capacity you can. You are taught that this work is important because it is vital to saving the lives of others and is “never to be repeated” (w10 2/15 p. 9). Being a faithful proselytiser is also vital to progressing beyond Armageddon in the first place.
Two. Life as it exists now is only a pale imitation of life after Jehovah’s divine judgement of the wicked at Armageddon. Wicked people have overwhelmed the Earth! “Critical times hard to deal with” are here! (2 Tim 3:1)
We can see further examples of this in the Witness literature: “Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them “brainwash” you with the Devil’s propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any “future” this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let God’s Word influence you in selecting a course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal.” Watchtower 1969 Mar 15 p.171
“This world has very little time left!” Ironically strong words given that they are now nearly forty-seven years old. But this also gives a key insight into another reason why Witnesses might postpone their ambitions.
“That’ll be 30 seconds please.”
Holding-back-hands-of-timeIn the real world, actions carry with them a temporal cost.
I feel no need to give this a citation because it seems like the sort of statement that almost nobody would take issue with. Want to learn to play the trombone? Sure! Let’s say that it takes fifty hours of practice to gain the level of proficiency you want. Assuming you live eighty years, that’s approximately 0.007% of your life which you can no longer use for any other purpose.
While it’s an overly-simplistic metaphor, the percentage of your life that you put towards a certain end can be thought of as a cost or investment in that activity. Some activities are compulsory- if you sleep eight hours a day, this will be about 33.3% of your life. Work and school have percentages of their own, as evidenced by our quote from the previous section.
In this way, every action taken in life is an investment (some large and others small) towards the grand 100% that is your life. And not all of these investments will be worthwhile, either. There are more than a few percentage points that I’d like to have back.
Of course, when you consider the prospect of Paradise, the whole point becomes moot. If it should happen that you get bored with the trombone then you will have wasted a mere fifty hours out of infinitely many hours. In a very real sense, this is 0%. And the thought of being able to do (practically) anything with no consequences for any mistake is tempting.
Given all of this, it seems unsurprising that many Witnesses seem to live in a state of suspended animation, watching and waiting for a bright, shiny world with no rough edges.
“Stagnant Waters.”
frozen-in-time-2The obvious problem with postponing one’s ambitions for the future is that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have the best track record when it comes to predicting the future.
Essentially, what Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing is outsourcing their hopes and dreams to a future that, in all probability, will never arrive. The result is a bizarre state of moratorium- the average Witness seems to have little interest in learning, growing or experiencing anything in this world deeply.
Some that I know have been stuck in the cycle for years. They watch the same DVD’s and TV shows over and over again, avoiding anything new. Some witnesses in moratorium will spend an inordinate part of their time imagining what they will say and do in the New System. Personally, I know more than a few who have figured out where they will live and how they will decorate. This is anecdotal evidence, of course. But I have seen the sentiments reflected in too many Witnesses to ignore the trend.
A witness in moratorium might view further education as a chore rather than an enlightenment. If they travel, they stick to the well-traversed paths and spend far too much time in the hotel room. The conversation is shallow and uncontroversial. Above all, there is no ambition to be found anywhere. Some use the Paradise hope as a “Get out of Sorrow Free” card- why deal with the tough realities of illness and death when they are just transient to you? And through it all they wait for their real life to begin. The rut slowly becomes a trench.
What’s to be done?
dawnThat is the big question. Almost certainly far too big given that philosophers have struggled with the question of the ideal way to live life since antiquity.
There is the possibility that some Witnesses might be so invested in the Paradise that they will never let go. For everyone else–myself included-the solution seems to simply be coming to terms with mortality in one way or another. Though it’s so easy to say and so very hard to do, actively seeking out new experiences is one of the best ways to make life worth living. Self-discovery, engaging with the world, formulating and achieving goals- these are the ingredients for a Paradise right here and now.
I think Wirrow put it best in his stream-of-consciousness entitled “and a new earth”:
deep inside you there is a roaring fire
that is not cooled by comfort or tamed by fear
a fire that burns in all things
a fire that can drag your fellow beings out of stagnant waters
and re-imagine your world with no leader or station
everything in this world is intoxicating
everything is on fire all the time
and you are bound only by the limits of your imagination- everything else will follow
the world will follow
as above, so below
a new heaven and a new earth
Maybe we just need to make a new Earth for ourselves.
12647700_809667592492092_2145013225_n
– P B
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← Phelicity Sneesby: The story Watchtower didn’t tell you
107 Responses to The Friday Column: “And a new Earth.”
← Older Comments
Claudia says:
February 24, 2016 at 7:34 am
After a life of running back the Watchotwer’s carrot, thanks to my ‘elder’ of husband, and situations in the congregation who showed us their unwillingness to stand to what they preach, and to adhere to Bible’s principles, we left, after almost 50 years of dedication to the WT.
I was 58, my husband 60! Fortunately, also our 3 adult children, left, with their mates. We were 7 to leave, a family who was an example of faith. A scandal, a shock, for many JW in the area we were well known.
Now after almost 10 years of FREE thinking, I can only think to the waste of our lifes in that organisation. Even, if the paradise would have come, we would have anyway lost experiences that will never come back… for example, we could’nt enjoy completely of our children’s infancy, enjoy their progress, because, in our lives WT’s interest would come before: preaching, meetings, and all other activities, you well know.
Our sundays, the sundays of an entire life, passed closed in a kingdom hall, well after the meeting because an elder has to take care of all others first.. with their stupid problems (where do you think I could leave my pet when I go on vacation?) or more serious problem which weren’t ours.
I mean, EVERY sunday and evenings, during 40 LONG YEARS, lost behind the WT’s carrot instead of dedicate that time to our children.
Not to talk about superior instructions for our children, as parents we never insist and force them to attend college,… we believed in a new syste. Now, we can only feel guilty and sad.
They are grown anyway, and we are very close to them today a never before, but the time and the attention parents should allow to their children has been stolen by the Watchower, time and opportunities which will never be paid back to us, even if a paradise would have been established.
I consider now the Watchower: THIEVES OF TIME, THIEVES OF ENERGIES, THIEVES OF LIVES!
We over-enjoy now our freedom, our family, our grand-sons, OUR TIME. OUR LIFE!
Claudia
Reply
Twmack says:
February 24, 2016 at 12:35 pm
@dee 2. @Songbird.
Good comments. Reminded me of a married S, Pioneer
couple in our cong, They wanted a family but put it off
until the new world, sadly they died childless.
Coming up to 1975 they were getting close to to the age
of being past child bearing. The husband came up with
the theory, that “As we didn’t know exactly when Eve was
created, Armageddon could maybe come in 1974”
( I’m not sure but I think there was something in WT to
that effect.)
Some years later, with no sign of the new system in sight,
he said to me “It looks like I’ll have to wait for a resurrection ”
Poor deluded people, exploited, robbed of a normal life.
On a side note, when they reached retiring age they became
eligible for a state pension though never having contributed
to the system. They were much better off then under the
care of “Satan’s arrangement” than they ever were under
JHVHs caring organisation.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:23 pm
@Average Joe:
Regarding humans living on other planets – PT 1:
Further to SIRIUS’ comment, scientists are yet to discover other earth-like, habitable planets. Admittedly, this is limited by the current technology in use and so NASA has been trying to develop more powerful telescopes:https://ca.yahoo.com/news/nasa-massive-space-telescope-could-094502665.html
Scientists believe that there may be other planets which are habitable. The closest is the Alpha Centauri star system, which is about 4 light years away from Earth. NASA has been making advances in propulsion technologies that will speed up space travel to make visits to faraway galaxies/planets possible:http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/11264-nasa-on-interstellar-travel-there-is-no-known-reason-why-we-cannot-do-this
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:25 pm
@Average Joe:
Regarding humans living on other planets – PT 2:
Even if scientists were to discover other earth-like, habitable planets, based on earth’s set up, these planets would also need to be served by a sun which is necessary in order for life to be sustained. The problem is that the sun, which is a star, does not have an infinite life. All stars die at some point, they cannot go on burning forever as they have a finite source of hydrogen fuel which will eventually be exhausted as the hydrogen is consumed by the nuclear fusion process that converts it into helium and light energy – the light energy is needed to sustain life on earth or the other planets:
http://www.space.com/11425-photos-supernovas-star-explosions.html
https://shar.es/1Cb6lm
So at some point there will be no sun to sustain life on these planets and on the earth. As the sun serving these planets and the earth goes through its death throes it will either consume the earth/other habitable planets or simply render life on earth/other habitable planets impossible. So man would have to keep moving from planet to planet.
If God wants humans to inhabit other planets forever so as to prevent the earth from being over-populated, then God will have to go against his immutable natural laws and prevent the sun (star) that serves the earth from dying as well as the sun (star) that would serve those other planets from dying.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:30 pm
@Average Joe:
Regarding the marital status and reproductive powers of persons resurrected on earth:
According to Jesus’ words at Luke 20:34-36 (NIV):
Jesus replied, “The people of THIS AGE marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in THE AGE TO COME and IN THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. (emphasis mine)
Jesus was speaking about the resurrection in THE AGE TO COME in response to a question from the Sadducees in the previous verses.
According to WT theology:
– the earthly resurrection takes place in THE AGE TO COME
– the WT’s heavenly resurrection, however, occurs in THIS (PRESENT) AGE having commenced in 1918:
****Revelation, Its Grand Climax At Hand! pg. 103****
“All the evidence indicates that this heavenly resurrection began in 1918 after Jesus’ enthronement in 1914 and his riding forth to start his kingly conquest by cleansing the heavens of Satan and his demons.”
Persons resurrected in the AGE TO COME are like the angels and so
– will neither marry nor be given in marriage
– can no longer die
The only way that Luke 20:34-36 could apply to the WT’s heavenly resurrection, is if the WT were to change its doctrine to state that its heavenly resurrection occurs in THE AGE TO COME and not in THIS AGE when it commenced in 1918.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:33 pm
@Average Joe:
Regarding man being created immortal to live forever on a Paradise Earth:
As I have already stated in this post, according to the Bible account of Adam & Eve, man was never created immortal as the WT claims. If they were created immortal then why would there be a need for a Tree of Life? What purpose would the Tree of Life serve if Adam and Eve were created immortal?
Further, as I stated in a previous post, the account of Adam & Eve is based on mythology, it cannot be used to prove that God made man immortal to live forever on a Paradise Earth.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:37 pm
@Average Joe:
About that Adam & Eve story – PT 1:
1. Pity Adam & Eve didn’t eat from the tree of life first, since it wasn’t banned.
2. According to Genesis 3:22 it was the act of eating from the tree of life that would make Adam & Eve immortal which is why god had to ban them from the garden of Eden so that they could not eat from the tree of life and live after they had sinned. So whether or not they ate from the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and bad they needed to eat from the tree of life in order to become immortal.
In order for Adam and Eve to have lived eternally, they would have had to eat from the Tree of Life; their own perfect bodies could not sustain living forever.
Whether or not they ate from the forbidden tree they were going to die anyway as they were never originally made immortal.
They still could have lived forever if only they had eaten from the tree of life. So, it was not eating from the forbidden tree that killed them – it was not eating from the tree of life that killed them.
So they didn’t lose immortal life when they ate from the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and bad because they were not immortal to begin with. So the question is – what was Jesus Christ’s sacrifice replacing since Adam & Eve were not immortal to begin with; they weren’t made immortal so they didn’t lose immortality when they sinned.
3. According to WT theology, TWO perfect lives were lost, yet there was only ONE ransom sacrifice.
4. According to Gen 3:22, it was the tree of life that would make Adam & Eve immortal not Jesus’ sacrifice. Despite Jesus’ sacrifice, in the book of Revelation, when all is said and done perfect mankind will still need to eat of the tree of life, according to WT theology:
Revelation 2:7
“To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God”.
Revelation 22: 2, 14:
“In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations”.
“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.”
5. Adam & Eve were supposed to have died in the day they ate the forbidden fruit, however that didn’t happen so god lied – Adam lived for 930 years and had children, one of his sons was born when Adam was 800 years old, so assumedly, Eve was still around up to that time (Genesis 5:3-5). According to the WT “day” has several meanings:
– 1 day
– 77.14 days
– 360 days
– 1 year
– 1,000 years
– 7,000 yearshttp://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/beliefs/time/
Would Adam & Eve have known the latter meanings which were given centuries later?
6. The snake’s words were shown to be reliable and true. It is God who is shown to be a deceiver. Adam and Eve did not die; rather, they benefited from eating the fruit: they obtained a moral sense.
The serpent was accurate and truthful throughout Genesis chapter 3. God’s words in Genesis 3:22 are essentially identical to the serpent’s prediction in Genesis 3:5 – Adam and Eve had developed a moral sense, previously possessed only by the Gods.
7. According to Genesis 3:17 – 19, only Adam and Eve were cursed. God did not mention the extension of the curse to Adam and Eve’s children and later descendants – the WT however, teaches otherwise.
8. In the Bible we are told that children do not die for the sins of their parents:
Ezekiel 18:20:
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him”.
Yet according to the WT, god has condemned not only Adam & Eve to death, but their children as well.
9. According to the WT, Adam’s & Eve’s sin passed on diseases, sickness and death to their descendants. One wonders – why didn’t god allow Adam & Eve to die in the very day they ate the forbidden fruit before they had a chance to have children and pass on their bad DNA?
According to WT theology, at the end of Christ’s 1000 year reign, people will be perfect just like Adam & Eve but some will disobey when tested and will consequently be destroyed.
Also according to the bible god destroyed all the wicked persons during the flood of Noah’s day and only left the righteous.
One wonders – couldn’t god have done similarly with Adam & Eve?
Couldn’t he have put Adam & Eve to death and keep repeating the process until he found a human pair who would obey before allowing them to have children?
10. As other commenters have stated:
The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) if only God would just stick to that but God has certainly got more than his “pound of flesh” by piling on the agony of all kinds of mental and physical disabilities and diseases.
The bible’s explanation of Original Sin is woefully inadequate. It states the penalty for sin is death. Death means death, not birth defects, blindness, deafness, paralysis, malaria, typhoid, SARS, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, fibromyalgia, depression, bacteria, viruses (transmitted by mosquitoes).
If one is to believe that the Garden of Eden story actually happened then humanity should have ended with Adam and Eve.
It makes zero sense that these perfect individuals committed a sin deserving of death but were allowed to live hundreds of years and fill the planet with doomed sinful imperfect offspring.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:40 pm
@Average Joe:
About that Adam & Eve story – PT 2:
11. God didn’t want Adam & Eve to know the difference between good and bad, right from wrong
as this was an attribute restricted to the gods. They were created without a moral sense, with no knowledge of right or wrong – just as toddlers lack such knowledge. Adam & Eve were like the animals in one sense: They had no knowledge of good and evil; of right and wrong. They were devoid of a moral sense. Only gods had such knowledge at the time.
Genesis 3:5:
“For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”.
Genesis 3:22:
“Then the Lord God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil’ “.
They lacked moral sense. They had no concept of right or wrong. They could only get the knowledge to NOT eat from the tree, only if they DID eat of that tree. They developed a moral sense for the first time after eating the forbidden fruit.
They had no moral sense – they couldn’t differentiate between right and wrong so why put the tree of good and evil in the garden? It seems God went out of his way to ensure his creation failed his test – why not put the tree out of their reach in Alaska?
God made this tree “desirable to the eyes” and “pleasing to look at” (Genesis 3:6). In effect, God was the first being to have created an entrapment. The evidence is there for all to see. He wanted Adam and Eve (and the entire human population that followed them, according to WT theology) to fail and fall into sin.
12. These two humans had no idea what “bad” meant. They ate from the tree because they didn’t understand what “bad” meant. When they ate from the tree, they now understood what “bad” and “good” was so why such a harsh punishment of diseases, sickness, and death not only for them but for all humanity (according to WT theology)?
It was only after the two ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they developed a moral sense, and thus could be held responsible for disobeying God. But he blamed them, and their billions of descendants anyway.
A harsh and unfair God, harshly punishes a naive couple and everything else.
13. How did eating the forbidden fruit make them now understood the difference between good and bad?
The snake was being accurate and helpful. He implied that the fruit was not poisonous. He said that if Eve ate the fruit she would magically and instantly develop a moral sense. For the first time, she would be able to distinguish good from evil; right from wrong. For the first time, she would share this attribute with the Gods.
Eating fruit provides one’s body with vitamins, minerals to nourish their body, so the forbidden fruit must have had some special chemical that worked on Adam’s & Eve’s brains to give them moral sense.
In reality, people do not acquire a new talent by eating fruit; we are dealing with a myth here.
14. God being omniscient proactively took steps to ban Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden after they sinned as he foreknew that they would eat from the tree of life and live. Yet he didn’t foreknow that they would eat from the tree with the forbidden fruit and thereby take steps to put the tree with the forbidden fruit out of their reach – only the tree of life was deserving of such a proactive action.
God didn’t have the foresight with regard to their eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil but he did in the case of the tree of life
Having the foresight to realize what would happen if Adam and Eve remained in the Garden of Eden, God takes the precaution of putting a barrier between them and the Tree of Life.
Or is it that God is not omniscient – not even of high intelligence – because he did not realize that without a moral sense, Eve and Adam would probably eat the fruit sooner or later?
Any parent who puts a plate of cookies in front of their 12 month-old infant and tells them not to eat any is aware of what the infant will do.
15. The anachronisms in the text:
Genesis 3:19:
“In the sweat of your face you shall eat ***bread*** Till you return to the ground…..”
Genesis 3:24:
“After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming ***sword***flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”
Did Adam & Eve know what a sword and bread were? (they were eating from fruit trees).
These things weren’t invented until years after the garden of Eden incident – apparently god was the inventor of the first weapon.
16. Genesis 3:14,15 is a good indication that the snake is a serpent and not Satan in disguise as claimed by Revelation 12:9 & 20:2. Otherwise it would make no sense for God to have punished all later generations of snakes – the curse on the snake has continued to the present time.
Satan does not appear in Genesis or in the rest of the Pentateuch. Talking snakes and other animals are often found in ancient religious myths of the Middle East, where they represent real animals.
17. According to the WT, “us” in Genesis 3:22 refers to God and Jesus Christ who was a co-creator:
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us…..”
The foregoing arguments served to highlight that the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 is a myth. As such “us” refers to multiple Gods as the passage was copied from a Pagan Middle Eastern source who followed a polytheistic religion: http://www.religioustolerance.org/com_geba.htm
A good indication that Genesis 3 is a myth is that no trace of the Garden of Eden and of the Cheribims have ever been found. Of course, if Noah’s flood (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_st.htm#flood) actually happened, it could have wiped out all trace of the Garden of Eden.
18. Some may argue that Jesus referred to Adam and Eve as an act of direct creation (Matthew 19:4-6) and taught moral lessons if Adam & Eve were meant to be literal.
One should keep in mind that: – Jesus also taught other lessons (such as the prodigal son) that were illustrations, not literal accounts.
– Archaeology indicates an older age for mankind than what the account of Adam & Eve claims.
19. Some persons are of the opinion that it was not possible for the original paradisical conditions of the Garden of Eden as described in the Bible to exist:http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/faqs/paradise-earth/
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:47 pm
@Average Joe:
About that Adam & Eve story – PT 2:
11. God didn’t want Adam & Eve to know the difference between good and bad, right from wrong
as this was an attribute restricted to the gods. They were created without a moral sense, with no knowledge of right or wrong – just as toddlers lack such knowledge. Adam & Eve were like the animals in one sense: They had no knowledge of good and evil; of right and wrong. They were devoid of a moral sense. Only gods had such knowledge at the time.
Genesis 3:5:
“For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”.
Genesis 3:22:
“Then the Lord God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil’ “.
They lacked moral sense. They had no concept of right or wrong. They could only get the knowledge to NOT eat from the tree, only if they DID eat of that tree. They developed a moral sense for the first time after eating the forbidden fruit.
They had no moral sense – they couldn’t differentiate between right and wrong so why put the tree of good and evil in the garden? It seems God went out of his way to ensure his creation failed his test – why not put the tree out of their reach in Alaska?
God made this tree “desirable to the eyes” and “pleasing to look at” (Genesis 3:6). In effect, God was the first being to have created an entrapment. The evidence is there for all to see. He wanted Adam and Eve (and the entire human population that followed them, according to WT theology) to fail and fall into sin.
12. These two humans had no idea what “bad” meant. They ate from the tree because they didn’t understand what “bad” meant. When they ate from the tree, they now understood what “bad” and “good” was so why such a harsh punishment of diseases, sickness, and death not only for them but for all humanity (according to WT theology)?
It was only after the two ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they developed a moral sense, and thus could be held responsible for disobeying God. But he blamed them, and their billions of descendants anyway.
A harsh and unfair God, harshly punishes a naive couple and everything else.
13. How did eating the forbidden fruit make them now understood the difference between good and bad?
The snake was being accurate and helpful. He implied that the fruit was not poisonous. He said that if Eve ate the fruit she would magically and instantly develop a moral sense. For the first time, she would be able to distinguish good from evil; right from wrong. For the first time, she would share this attribute with the Gods.
Eating fruit provides one’s body with vitamins, minerals to nourish their body, so the forbidden fruit must have had some special chemical that worked on Adam’s & Eve’s brains to give them moral sense.
In reality, people do not acquire a new talent by eating fruit; we are dealing with a myth here.
14. God being omniscient proactively took steps to ban Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden after they sinned as he foreknew that they would eat from the tree of life and live. Yet he didn’t foreknow that they would eat from the tree with the forbidden fruit and thereby take steps to put the tree with the forbidden fruit out of their reach – only the tree of life was deserving of such a proactive action.
God didn’t have the foresight with regard to their eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil but he did in the case of the tree of life
Having the foresight to realize what would happen if Adam and Eve remained in the Garden of Eden, God takes the precaution of putting a barrier between them and the Tree of Life.
Or is it that God is not omniscient – not even of high intelligence – because he did not realize that without a moral sense, Eve and Adam would probably eat the fruit sooner or later?
Any parent who puts a plate of cookies in front of their 12 month-old infant and tells them not to eat any is aware of what the infant will do.
15. The anachronisms in the text:
Genesis 3:19:
“In the sweat of your face you shall eat ***bread*** Till you return to the ground…..”
Genesis 3:24:
“After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming ***sword***flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”
Did Adam & Eve know what a sword and bread were? (they were eating from fruit trees).
These things weren’t invented until years after the garden of Eden incident – apparently god was the inventor of the first weapon.
16. Genesis 3:14,15 is a good indication that the snake is a serpent and not Satan in disguise as claimed by Revelation 12:9 & 20:2. Otherwise it would make no sense for God to have punished all later generations of snakes – the curse on the snake has continued to the present time.
Satan does not appear in Genesis or in the rest of the Pentateuch. Talking snakes and other animals are often found in ancient religious myths of the Middle East, where they represent real animals.
17. According to the WT, “us” in Genesis 3:22 refers to God and Jesus Christ who was a co-creator:
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us…..”
The foregoing arguments served to highlight that the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 is a myth. As such “us” refers to multiple Gods as the passage was copied from a Pagan Middle Eastern source who followed a polytheistic religion:http://www.religioustolerance.org/com_geba.htm
A good indication that Genesis 3 is a myth is that no trace of the Garden of Eden and of the Cheribims have ever been found. Of course, if Noah’s flood (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_st.htm#flood) actually happened, it could have wiped out all trace of the Garden of Eden.
Reply
dee2 says:
February 24, 2016 at 4:52 pm
@Average Joe:
About that Adam & Eve story – PT 3:
18. Some may argue that Jesus referred to Adam and Eve as an act of direct creation (Matthew 19:4-6) and taught moral lessons so Adam & Eve were meant to be literal.
One should keep in mind that:
– Jesus also taught other lessons (such as the prodigal son) which were illustrations, not literal accounts.
– Archaeology indicates an older age for mankind than what the account of Adam & Eve claims.
19. Some persons are of the opinion that it was not possible for the original paradisical conditions of the Garden of Eden as described in the Bible to exist:http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/faqs/paradise-earth/
Reply
eyes opened says:
February 24, 2016 at 5:09 pm
@Pow
You’re right about Proverbs 4:18. Reading the surrounding scriptures makes it clear the comparison is between following a wicked path versus a righteous one. It has nothing to do with “new light”.
Regards
Reply
Twmack says:
February 24, 2016 at 5:19 pm
@Average Joe.
Your comment got me wondering. If God intends humans
to populate other planets. How is this repatriation to take
place ?
The university of New South Wales, last year discovered a
possible habitable planet, 14 light years away, quite near
in cosmic terms. But I did read that just 1 light year using
present technology would take 20,000 years to travel.
so to get to that “near” planet would take 280,000 years.
After that, distances will become much greater.
And of course with no dying in the new world, population
will increase at a much faster rate than now, requiring
many rockets to transport the overflow. Factories and
factory workers would be needed.
Other questions come to mind but I’ll leave it there.
I am genuinely interested in your thoughts as to how
people will be transported across the universe.
Reply
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17 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
Reply
Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
Tell the police.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
Rick Viger says:
November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
S.T. says:
November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
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8h
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Time to shed a tear for #Watchtower. They could end up out of pocket by $80m due to poor timing. http://nyp.st/1QeoQag via @nypost
Show Summary
8h
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Double-decker confession buses? Yes, we need those. Reporting all child sex abuse to the authorities? Meh. https://twitter.com/ChristianToday/status/702537828115353601 …
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22 Feb
Trey Bundy @TreyBundy
Now on @reveal the story behind #SpotlightMovie and how the Catholic Church child abuse scandal continues... https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/glare-of-the-spotlight/ …
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21 Feb
gpbnews @gpbnews
New @reveal: Go behind the story with the real reporters portrayed onscreen in @SpotlightMovie. Tonight @ 6 pm pic.twitter.com/BGtnqd2qeE
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21 Feb
WGCU Public Media @wgcu
What happened after the credits in @SpotlightMovie? Get the full story on the new @reveal today @ 3pm on WGCU FM pic.twitter.com/SSo8bvS5kx
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21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Not by a long stretch... https://twitter.com/reveal/status/701497938552496128 …
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21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Fantastic news! @TreyBundy is our Spotlight, and he's in for the long-haul. #jehovahswitnesses #childabuse https://twitter.com/ChristianFree9/status/701475859228655616 …
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21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Amazing that a deluge fierce enough to submerge the highest mountains went unnoticed by the First Dynasty. https://twitter.com/archaeologymag/status/701455349513977856 …
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21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Cardinal Pell is in no position to be pointing fingers at anyone right at this moment... @timminchin https://twitter.com/CatholicHerald/status/701451766051823617 …
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21 Feb
Reveal ✔ @reveal
What happened after the credits in @SpotlightMovie? Our new episode explores what's changed – and what hasn't: http://ow.ly/YxEt7
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21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
I can boil it down to one: they learn to think. https://twitter.com/HuffPostRelig/status/701429435501821952 …
21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
The wit and brutal logic is eternal... https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/701380586900840448 …
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21 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Just preparing my notes for JWB17. I'm going to enjoy this!
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20 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Typical WT trustee meeting: "So, uh, I guess we just keep doing whatever the Governing Body in New York wants?" https://twitter.com/ChtyCommission/status/701089654100119552 …
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20 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
You can't keep a good cult down... https://twitter.com/reveal/status/701087754709499904 …
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20 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Working on a video about child abuse while being stalked online by an anonymous nutter hurling abuse. Oh the joys of being a cult activist.
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20 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Let's hope these elephants on the 2016 memorial invitation make it out of Switzerland and back to the savannah... pic.twitter.com/jqUUUIcoX9
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19 Feb
Dr. Nina L. Shapiro @drninashapiro
Homoeopathy officially doesn’t work http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/homeopathy-therapeutic-dead-end-systematic-review-no-evidence-it-works-a6884356.html …
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19 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Again, no surprises with which religion is the least tolerant... https://twitter.com/publicreligion/status/700685193850523649 …
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19 Feb
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Conveniently the 'need' is greater in the Bahamas than in Bangladesh, where there's one JW in 600,000. pic.twitter.com/D3tde9YyDp
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