Thursday, May 8, 2014
Ex-JW discussions on Yuku.com forum
Yuku free message boards
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
"I always thought a yard was three feet, then I started mowing the lawn." -C.E. Cowman
RSS
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
> Fancy seeing Brother Prince Live?
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
.
Fancy seeing Brother Prince Live?
Author
Comment
offlinesarahkate
Fancy seeing Brother Prince Live?
Lead [-]
avatar
Platinum Level Member
Posts: 405
Apr 30 14 7:24 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
So the Big Purple one is coming to my hometown!Bow down before you Check out the ticket prices!Oh no https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=737936159589790&set=a.407401772643232.111602.217353058314772&type=1&theater
Sarahkate xx
status offlineAislynnRain
#1 [-]
avatar
Registered Member
Posts: 1
Apr 30 14 2:34 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I like some of his music, but not that much. Ouch!
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#2 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
6 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
HAH those are cheap compared to the $200 nosebleeds he was selling for a concert at a US casino a few months ago. Brother Prince is probably one of the biggest hypocrites around.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#3 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
3 days ago
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Apparently ... old Princey baby puts on a really good show. I still cannot see how he can justify the ticket prices and putting a show on at all ... given I grew up being told that playing competitive sport AT SCHOOL was considered reproachful to Jehovah's name!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
Add Reply
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
..
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
> Fancy seeing Brother Prince Live?
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies
Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 6:24:15 pm
Liverpool, England, United Kingdom: 0:24:15 am
Perth, Western Australia: 8:24:15 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 7:24:15 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.
Yuku forums
Forum Find
Forum Help
Legal
© 2014 Yuku. All rights reserved.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26807/Fancy-seeing-Brother-Prince-Live#.U2wgL2cU85s
Yuku free message boards
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
"You cannot play the game of life with sweaty palms."--Dr. Phil, Phillip C. McGraw
RSS
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
> Petition against corrupt JW
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
.
Petition against corrupt JW
Author
Comment
offlineJames M
Petition against corrupt JW
Lead [-]
avatar
Registered Member
Posts: 12
Apr 28 14 11:51 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I posted this once in another section, so I apologize, this will be my last post about this. Its just that my other post was too long winded and in the wrong section. Ok as short as I can-
there is a JW , I was friends with and worked with. He is still a JW (goes to assemblies at least). He became an extremely corrupt business man, openly admitting to me horrendous things he did. I got out. Two other JW's stayed with him. I liked this guy and kind of still do in a way. I heard he got filthy rich and I assumed all these years he must have matured and went straight. But I found out he is worse than ever now. He has been doing this for 25 years.
Anyway last time I posted multiple links here, they ran together like one long link. So just google "joseph armato insurance" (and also in youtube) and you'll see loads of links exposing him. Even two tv channels had features on him. He is ruining lives and getting away with it.
This is not jealous revenge. I am sad over this. I kind of still like the guy and was horrified to see he is still at this. Read the stories of the people who he has hurt and you can't help but want to help them. Then I think of the profound hypocricy of still being a JW and it is confounding
anyway here is one link, a petition to expose him
https://www.change.org/petitions/exposing-joseph-armato-and-his-cronies-for-the-exploitation-of-tragedy-victims
if anyone willing to sign I would be appreciative
James
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#1 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
Apr 30 14 12:19 AM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Your link doesn't work James.
My advice would be to approach the authorities and let them know about this corrupt person. A petition is just that ... a petition. If he is leaving a trail of victims behind him via insurance or other scams ... then the authorities are the ones who can not only charge him but shut him down too.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinebelladiane
#2 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 236
Apr 30 14 6:21 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
this is nothing new....after hurricane Charlie, my mothers condo was ruined and needed major repair that her insurance or condo ass. didn't cover....so she hired 'a brother' who took her money and never, ever completed the work. She went to the elders and they also took it too the overseer who actually turned it into a 'how dare you, a woman, put this brother on the spot' sort of comment, I don't remember exactly what was said but it was demeaning to her as a female. So since you shouldn't take your brother to court, he got away with it with not only her but a few others who had property damage.
I was at an assembly once and my moms friend was sitting by me and I didn't really know who this 'brother' was since they were in different congregations. So she pointed to him for me and said 'Look, there he is, Judas, guarding the donation box' And yes, he was in charge of one of the money boxes. Disgusting.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#3 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
3 days ago
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
How dare your lowly mother ... a mere woman ... try to upset the poor brother and his large wallet! Makes you wonder why people put up with their crap doesn't it Bella!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
#4 [-]
avatar
Supreme Member
Posts: 6539
2 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
One of these stories prompts another one and it makes you wonder how many of these instances are out there. Quite a few, I'm sure. I knew of one bro who did things like that, didn't finish jobs after getting paid in full for them, that kind of things.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
Add Reply
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
..
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
> Petition against corrupt JW
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies
Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 6:24:57 pm
Liverpool, England, United Kingdom: 0:24:57 am
Perth, Western Australia: 8:24:57 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 7:24:57 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.
Yuku forums
Forum Find
Forum Help
Legal
© 2014 Yuku. All rights reserved.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26803/Petition-against-corrupt-JW#.U2wgWWcU85s
Yuku free message boards
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
"It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for something you are not." - Andre Gide
RSS
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
> Decline of the WTBTS
«Prev
1
2
Next»
Jump
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
.
Decline of the WTBTS
Author
Comment
offlineSwingLifeAway
Decline of the WTBTS
Lead [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Mar 24 14 4:06 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
We've had a couple threads on here about the end of the DO's. I think that it is another indicator of the end of the WTBTS. Some people seem to feel that this is about 'maximizing profits,' but simply put I don't think there's any profit left here.
We've all been watching this. Personally I've kinda been keeping a tally in my head as to how many of these consolidations have occurred and this latest one to me, really cements the trend of shrinkage. This organization has peaked. We are witnessing the decline. The question is not if, it's when. Momentum will only continue to grow for collapse.
The first article is a pretty good summary of what I've read to date.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/branch-closures-and-fire-sales-a-growing-trend-for-the-society
This is a pretty good picture of the real estate sales that have happened. I have heard first hand that the moving of the printing presses to Wallkill had to do with efficiency (and by extension consolidation). "It just took too long with different phases of assembly on different floors" is pretty much a direct quote from a reliable source at Wallkill.
http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/show-me-money-tally-watchtowers-brooklyn-property-sales-2013-11-20-213000
This might sound like a lot of money but the cost of supporting tens of thousands of volunteers in astronomical. You might think donations cover this. But the Witnesses have stopped growing in the developed world, even as their overhead costs in the underdeveloped world continue to grow. This is not sustainable financially. Neither are huge lawsuit settlements to people like Candice Conti. That is a legal precedent and it will happen over and over. Unlike the Catholic Church they won't be able to absorb these hits financially forever. They are burning through property to stay afloat. Once those reserves run out they'll be looking at other properties, but this cannot go on indefinitely. At first, you could kinda write these changes off as normal business practices.... I think we're passed that point. The ship is sinking folks.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Mar 24 14 4:37 AM. Edited 5 times.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
#1 [-]
avatar
Posts: 8742
Mar 24 14 5:27 AM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Fascinating write up by John Cedars as always. He must be the biggest baddest bur in the butt to the society since Barbara Anderson and Ray Franz! Of course we ALL are and you just as surely Dave. Nice post BTW! The financial finagling that WT has always done cutting this thing and that always raised an eyebrow from me back in the day but the stakes are much bigger now than cutting food services at assemblies and hopefully more than a few raised eyebrows will be happening among the rank and file in coming months. The Bethel homes and branch offices in other countries were once the pride and joy of those JW's who believed they were part of God's true religion.....now it seems it really was just an 'American' region(corporation)
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
Last Edited By: whytebyrd2 Mar 24 14 5:36 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinepalmel1234
#2 [-]
avatar
Indispensible Poster
Posts: 3056
Mar 24 14 9:15 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Thanks for posting those links.
Credit card machines in assembly hall? SMH. smiley: eyes
We are seeing the decline. I like how the one article mentioned that by encouraging interested ones to research JW beliefs online, they also run the risk of people coming across other sites about JWs that expose their flawed doctrine and policies.
The internet contains a lot of stupidity, but in this case it's actually doing some good.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineinspecterD
#3 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)+
Posts: 1456
Mar 24 14 10:53 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
As far as I'm concerned it can't happen fast enough. I don't how they are gonna go out with a Bang or a Wimper. Either way I hope it is soon.
I don't know if you all remember the International Bible Students (the ones that the JW's separated from) but when I was a Dubbie I would run into them from time to time. As far as I know, they kinda dwindled to a trickle and all but disappeared. The WTBTS could go the same way and have some adherents which some of us with families still in would have to deal with but I hope that the hardness of the religion would be thinned so that at least we could get our families back. I hope this is not wishful thinking on my part.
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#4 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Mar 24 14 11:09 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Yeah inspectorD - this is an important distinction - the beliefs WILL live on after the WTBTS goes bankrupt. I forsee some new light that basically says the UN is not the one that is going to destroy religion, but capitalism, or technology, or whatever they want to blame, is the real culprit and fulfiller of that prophecy where religion has to be outlawed and then Armageddon comes. They will say that the end of the WTBTS is just another sign that Armageddon is at hand and that their collapse had always been expected. JW's will be greviously shocked and eat it up as consolation. The WTBTS will close out by saying that Jehovah's eyeball has been touched, and now, they need to only wait a little while longer. The wheels for A-Day will be seen as being in motion, and then the Society will never be heard from again.
The Bible Students are FASCINATING I would love to meet one. Talk about delusional. THey believe their dwindling numbers prove they're right. I expect a similar self fulfilling prophecy from JW's in due time.
Mel/whytebyrd - My pleasure! Some of you know how intertwined my family is with the WTBTS so this is exciting, and personally relevant, news to me. I amn also very interested in business/politics so I've been trying to figure out the state of the WT's assets for a couple years now. I think I've got a decent picture painted. We have all awaited this moment, I think both of you for longer than me. We will have to keep waiting but, seriously, "just a little while longer and the wicked one will be no more."
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Mar 24 14 11:23 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlineeewx2
#5 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 108
Mar 24 14 11:22 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I would love to see them go down. But my realistic side can see my parents still clinging to their beliefs long after the society is gone. It's really a no win situation for me, but I still hope to some day get my family back. I guess I'm the delusional one in this situation.
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#6 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Mar 24 14 11:26 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
eewx2 - I can't see my family leaving because of it either. Breaking free of those mental bonds is another issue entirely. BUT we can all take solace in knowing the world of good this will do humanity. It is still something we can celebrate! Our community has helped do this!
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlinewhytebyrd2
#7 [-]
avatar
Posts: 8742
Mar 24 14 5:20 PM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I do believe all the little bits we all do is helping but seriously Dave
We will have to keep waiting but, seriously, "just a little while longer and the wicked one will be no more."
Puleeeeze!
(good one Thumbs up!)
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
status offlinebelladiane
#8 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 236
Mar 25 14 4:43 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I think its pretty funny, kind of a backfire effect on the 'don't pursue material things, higher education, better jobs' Well lookie now, where is the money going to come from now that JWs decided to spend all their time preaching and knocking when they might have pursued a better education to make more money to donate. No more funds....tooo funny... a domino effect for their wallet!
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#9 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
Mar 25 14 10:03 PM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Well now Brother Dave ... you do make some ponderous topics to ponder over!
I always wondered why the money from the Aussie halls never came from the hierarchy ... it was always a case of 'well Brothers and Sisters ... we are going to have to take a vote on such and such a bank loan for our new hall .................'.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
#10 [-]
avatar
Supreme Member
Posts: 6539
Mar 31 14 6:52 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I also think they are fading. I just counted on my fingers those who have left (that I could think up within a few minutes) from the time I came in 35 years ago and I stopped counting at 30. Some of them were just kids when I came in. And I was just counting ones who were in the one congregation when I came in. That's a lot to lose when you consider the size of congregations! Oh, and I didn't count myself and my husband, one daughter and two sons!
status offlineFiguringitout20
#11 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
Mar 31 14 11:05 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I kind of feel like the demise of the WTBS is too good to be true, at least not anytime in the near future. If they were having enough financial trouble to the point of going under, then I would think they would send out letters to the congregations with pleas for money, explaining the gravity of the situation. Dedicated JWs would bequeath their life savings to the org, instead of to their children, make great personal sacrifice etc. to help keep it afloat. With all the JWs doing the most they could to help, I think it would take a while for them to go under. Then even if it did go under, I think individuals would continue preaching and meeting somewhere together because it's all they know. I must be skeptical because I've heard a bit too much of 'the end is coming!" from the JWs. I hope I'm proven wrong.
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#12 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Apr 1 14 5:46 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
If they were having enough financial trouble to the point of going under, then I would think they would send out letters to the congregations with pleas for money, explaining the gravity of the situation. Dedicated JWs would bequeath their life savings to the org, instead of to their children, make great personal sacrifice etc. to help keep it afloat. With all the JWs doing the most they could to help, I think it would take a while for them to go under.
I definitely agree with both of these statements. I think these days are still coming, but I don't think we're going to see efforts this forthright until they are in a free fall and again, this is only buying time. They probably only have a million or so publishers devout enough to bequeath such large sums of money to the organization, and of these people, they need to maintain the illusion of being a religious organization. As they fall apart more and more are going to leave because they will no longer be able to hide that it's actually a business. There has been an unprecedented frequency of new clues recently.
Granted, I am not talking about the organization dissolving right away. This is a large organization and it will take time for them to fully rot out form the core and collapse upon themselves. But it is happening.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Apr 2 14 3:31 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCacky
#13 [-]
avatar
Supreme Member
Posts: 6539
Apr 1 14 6:11 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I just really think that with the Internet, it's end is coming. Think of all the curious young ones who will take a peek at the sites they know they aren't supposed to be on, and they'll learn something. Those of my generation had a dismal rate of keeping their kids in once they were grown, and that was before the Internet.
status offlineFiguringitout20
#14 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
Apr 1 14 10:14 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Cacky, that is true about the Internet! It's a great place to learn TTATT. I left before JW's had their own website and I think before the Internet, social media, etc really took off. I imagine they must give a ton of warnings in the literature about the Internet because every website about JWs, except their own of course, is strongly opposed.
status offlinehalf banana
#15 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 23 14 3:19 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
SLA, it is so heart-warming to read the words “decline of the WTBTS!”
Most of us here have been hurt by this cult and would love to see it meet the end it deserves by public exposure, bankruptcy and mass desertion.
The fact of the matter is actually that for all our wishful prognostications of failure, numerically it continues to be well supported. It has a membership approaching eight million. The rate of increase may be proportionately slower nowadays but in real terms a million new members is millions of new Dollars each year nevertheless.
Eight million financial contributors can feed the egos of the GB and keep alive the most absurd doctrines within an inward looking cult.
This means that in recent years millions of hopeless individuals and families have been given a religious hope---a futile hope--- but at least something to look forward to. They have determined that their lives were so bad that they are even prepared to swallow the Watchtower bait of paradise at the expense of personal freedom and slave for the interests of the cult.
The organisation has reached a platform of wealth which will sustain it for a while whatever happens. I wonder where the property money will go when a majority inside the religion realise that the WTBTS is just a business peddling in religious dogma?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlinewhytebyrd2
#16 [-]
avatar
Posts: 8742
Apr 23 14 7:28 AM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
"The organisation has reached a platform of wealth which will sustain it for a while whatever happens. I wonder where the property money will go when a majority inside the religion realise that the WTBTS is just a business peddling in religious dogma?"
Property $$ will go to pay lawsuits!
And it won't be enough.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#17 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Apr 23 14 8:21 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
half banana - I disagree with you on the importance of those new members. I touched on this earlier but most of the growth now happens in the third world. First world growth has almost completely leveled so they are not raking in "fresh meat" in the way you are thinking. The contributions are by and large coming from wealthy developed countries, the same ones where membership is leveling. Most of those third world members end up being an added expense. You don't have to look much father than the Yearbook to see this is the case.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlinehalf banana
#18 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 23 14 11:01 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
SLA Dave, the point is taken about the growth only taking place in the third world. magazine income must have declined enormously yet the books and mags are still a compulsory purchase. How much does each Jdub spend at the literature counter and multiply that by 8 million?
They are ramping up the demands for more and measurable contributions (Jehovah needs the money). They own countless Kingdom Hells and assembly halls throughout the world and factories and other valuable properties in NY City and state. They have vast investments and participate each year at the most prestigious London business investment conferences. It is greatly encouraged by the GB that faithful Jdubs should bequeath them all their worldy wealth upon death. With eight million willing participants in this racket, I can’t see total failure--- only a significant downturn. This is of course just a mere opinion.
What might tip the balance are two things;
1/ As Sharon has mentioned: lawsuits. The irony is that in their worldly greed to own all the KH’s; they are now legally considered to be an organised, hierarchical religion, (i.e.”snare and a racket!!) which means that those in charge are held responsible for the misconduct of their members actions and because of the corporate wealth there is an assumption of being able to sustain heavy financial penalties as seen in the Conti case.
2/Should the world wake up to the fact that certain religions parade as charities, they might realise that certain religions do not actually contribute to their country’s welfare. This could be demonstrated by withdrawing the tax- free status of such organisations.
I think the WTBTS would probably not be able to sustain paying tax along with the big lawsuits.
I reckon that it is now time to inform the governments in each country that it would make sense to give tax exemption only to genuine charities not all religions. Why promote harmful cults?
What do you think?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#19 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Apr 24 14 5:56 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I doubt they're generating enough revenue in donations from new literature in the developing world. We're talking about people who make dollars a day here. It's really hard to see them being able to maintain a first-world quality of life at their facilities with this membership demographic. I'm not saying that they generate $0 of income but when you begin to consider the astronomical overhead of maintaining 100 worldwide facilities, whether they house printing presses or not, I don't see those numbers cutting it.
Just think about how much the electricity and heating costs them annually alone. Wallkill now has solar panels but I doubt that's a global standard just yet. You also have water and food to consider. And then there's just the cost of keeping up the front, moving their people around the globe on planes or in cars is expensive as well. Plus they have their infirmaries where they pay for the sick and elderly who have managed to work their way in there for life. Then you add the millions from the Conti case. Then you think about the legal precedent that's been set. And how disgusted the jury was by the actions of the WTBTS.
When you really look at what they're pulling in right now in a given year realistically I don't see how they're turning a profit.
As far as taxing religion - I am a huge proponent of it. Even as a child I could see that the Catholic Church should be taxed. When I said that to my Father he said "careful what you wish for." I'm still wishing for it.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlinenonjwspouse
#20 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 521
Apr 24 14 9:47 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I have read of at least 20 or more world wide branch closings recently. Coonsolodating or reciving the ( I believe money laundering ) from HQ then a eternal stream of payback that never goes away per a recent letter. Donations/payback pledges for building or improving now continues beyond the payback period. Plus the local congregations do now own the property, the HQ maintains the title.
I believe wallkill is supposed to have a farm to provide for the food.
It's been stated more than once that the WT either sometimes pays for the education for Dr or lawyer etc, for use at Bethel, or they acquire a new member with these skills. This is not going to cost them much since it is "service" for Bethel.
Moving people around.... well I am seeing the massive number of halls with telescreens now. Not so much travel is needed when you can stream it live from the Warwick resort?
The USA R&F are encouraged now to printout the study WT from jw.org. This will likely continue. JW.org is becoming the new "literature" with tablets now even being used in field service., and brought to the KH. The savings in reducing the printing, aside from outsourcing printing to other countries where it is much cheaper to produce, that I believe is being done even now is big.
The sales of the buildings in Brooklyn is now in the billions. ( this does not count the sales of Bethel branches all over the world)
Yes the Conti case has them scared, but the many lawyers made sure the assets are spread out all over the place. That WT will not be sued out of existence. The money is protected over a laundry list of corporations. The new donation pledge arrangement is also going to bring in $$$$.
Also, reducing the regional conventions to one a year and assembly days down to one day will save $$$$ as well. The legal department in HQ is very savvy ( what do you expect from a religion re-created by a lawyer!).
The literature donations might seem piddly, but when spread out over millions it adds up!
The WT will only be taken town when the potential recruitment has been pre-educated that the WT is a cult and knows the truth about "the truth". Only then will they really suffer. The defectors are the highest of any organized religion according to the PEW report.
My opinions as an outsider, never been a JW, but studying the reality of this organization to death for years.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
Add Reply
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
«Prev
1
2
Next»
Jump
..
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
> Decline of the WTBTS
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies
Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 6:26:16 pm
Liverpool, England, United Kingdom: 0:26:16 am
Perth, Western Australia: 8:26:16 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 7:26:16 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.
Yuku forums
Forum Find
Forum Help
Legal
© 2014 Yuku. All rights reserved.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26702/Decline-of-the-WTBTS#.U2wgqGcU85s
Yuku free message boards
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
"Religious creeds encourage some of the craziest kinds of thoughts, emotions, and behaviors and favor severe manifestations of neurosis, borderline personality states, and sometimes even psychosis." --Albert Ellis
RSS
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
> Decline of the WTBTS
«Prev
1
2
Next»
Jump
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
.
Decline of the WTBTS
Author
Comment
status offlinehalf banana
#21 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 24 14 1:03 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Nonjwspouse, I just marvel at your information level! Although I am still affected by the consequences of having been a JW, I have been away for so long that I am not up to date with all the fine details. You though, with your husband’s JW interest, have the impetus to really find out what is going on...and thank you so much for that!
The big change over the last ten or fifteen years is the accessibility to the sharp end of information through the internet. With the Watchtower now no doubt reluctantly using this demonic device(!) Those who are confronted with the org for the first time will naturally resort to it to check on public opinion of the religion. This must be a great annoyance to the Watchtower since the bulk of WT information on the net is condemnatory, as it should be...
We have then, the decline in income. Will third world expansion not cover the costs to sustain the rationalised lean model organisation?
Can we expect the governments to deny non social contributing religions their historical tax-exempt status?
Can we inform the world of the self interested, autocratic and socially divisive cult activities of the WTBTS?
Can anything be done??
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlinehalf banana
#22 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 25 14 4:05 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
nonjwspouse wrote:
The WT will only be taken town when the potential recruitment has been pre-educated that the WT is a cult and knows the truth about "the truth". Only then will they really suffer.
Yes, I absolutely agree... but how is the world to learn this?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#23 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Apr 25 14 5:22 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Nonjwspouse - This restructuring that's going on is a band aid over the real problem (the WTBTS is lying). This is something that's going to take place over a few decades, not all at once.
I have not been to a hall with tele-conferencing technology. I was unaware of that trend. However I still maintain that there is a high cost of moving around CO's and Missionaries. The advent of tele-conferencing is not going to eliminate traveling altogether. It's still not a replacement for face to face time at a large convention.
Bringing the internet into the picture encourages outside research. If someone shows up at my door with their tablet and pulls up jw.org, I will be much more likely to check other websites for varying perspectives on their claims.
The thing that's tricky for the WTBTS is they can't really go fully digital. For one, they have to print literature for remote areas. There will always be costs associated with this. The recent contraction of the organization already suggests that they do not have as much money as we think. Why else would they contract in such a manner? Their "size" and physical presence around the world is part of what impresses membership. As they continue to contract many claims about their status will seem weaker and weaker. How does this organization look to the average adherent as they cost cut, close up shop all over the world, and consolidate?
You can already see that they are contracting. Over 2/3's of young people in the United States are leaving the relgion. The US makes up about 1/7 of their total members, and a much higher percentage of the membership from the first world. I think extreme contraction is pretty much inevitable, culminating with the WTBTS operating digitally out of a few offices, if at all. The pressures forcing the initial shrink are only going to grow.
As far as farming their own food goes... I have heard that the farm is not what it used to be. Tighter US government restrictions on food production has made it more expensive for the WTBTS. I could not tell you the extent of the impact but the one time I was at Wallkill I heard these rumblings. Regardless, Wallkill can't feed the entire WTBTS army so a lot of food is probably still being bought.
A couple questions too, as I am interested in your following of this issue. I have followed the sale of Brooklyn property fairly closely. I was under the impression that "only" about 300 million in assets had been liquidated. I followed it via the Brooklyn Daily Eagle, where are you getting your numbers?
What are some of the dummy corporations set up by the WTBTS?
What do you think will happen if/when the local money is exhausted? They can't just bilk congregations indefinitely, eventually they would have to go bankrupt. It's just like how corporations franchise out locations but then ask for a ~20% cut of profits (as an example). When you start asking 40% - 50% the franchisee stops making a profit, and then the location goes under. The locals are only donating so much. When will they no longer be able to donate more? When will they be missing rent payments to give the WTBTS their overhead? Additionally, the property firesale is a one time cash out and while the numbers are big, the money can be gone through in time.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Apr 25 14 5:35 AM. Edited 3 times.
status offlinehalf banana
#24 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 26 14 11:34 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I think it’s interesting that there are a number of threads here at the moment which can be woven together to make a picture of the nerve-centre at Watchtower HQ.
Most writers, as toothpaste from a tube, squeeze out their anxieties into print. The Watchtower study article is about Big J rescuing his people. I see this as a subliminal message that they are in need of rescue themselves...and Big J is not performing for them. (Why don’t they take the hint?)
The fact that the GB is now claiming that they are exclusively the FDS excludes any significance whatsoever to those who “just know” that they are “anointed”. (Wingnut) So this central belief of the anointed leading God’s people into the new world system was a meaningless red-herring for 130 odd years. The old faithful and memorial partakers will note this demotion and take action.
Time has proved the “Generation of 1914” doctrine to be false yet beyond all hope and by desperate belief in the WTBTS, witnesses still think it might be true. One hundred year gone by and it looks much more probable that we are to see the end of the Watchtower not the end of the world.
The “end” hype coming from the seven muffins in the tower is that as Bellediane reported “Not around the corner but in front of us”. Tie this grotesque and unwarranted optimism in with this discussion on the downturn in Watchtower finances and the undercurrent belief the Jdubs have that “the system” cannot last much longer---based on 1914.
I see this as nervous hype covering the desperation and hope for the end to cure Watchtower troubles, because in a handful of years time with financial disaster and 1914 credibility dashed; they will not only have millions of disappointed followers but will lack the flexibility to pick up again .
They do know from experience that MONEY is the key to success in cult-life. They were rescued from disaster by one bro in 1919. They are already not only touting for more money but TAKING more money from wherever they can. (see ’Assembly hall scam’ in scandals section).
Who on earth will want to finance the WTBTS when it’s publicly losing cash and credibility?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
Last Edited By: half banana Apr 28 14 8:55 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#25 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
Apr 27 14 10:58 PM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
HB ... if the WBTS didn't have a healthy tax free status in most countries ... I dare say they'd have have more trouble attracting devotees than they already do. Make them pay tax ... make the finances more transparent ... and then we'll see a decline. Although in saying that ................................. it would be considered persecution for the world to pay attention to the WBTS wouldn't it!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#26 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Apr 28 14 6:28 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
They are already not only touting for more money but TAKING more money from wherever they can. (see ’Assembly hall scam’ in scandals section)
Each of these scams can only be run once. When the well is dry, it's dry. These are all "reserves" that are being run through. It doesn't appear that the liquidated assets are being reinvested anywhere, but spent instead.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Apr 28 14 6:30 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinebirdwoman2
#27 [-]
avatar
Paramount Member
Posts: 5495
Apr 28 14 8:15 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
It doesn't appear that the liquidated assets are being reinvested anywhere, but spent instead.
I realize that the sex abuse cases are costing them a lot of money...but...hasn't there been billions worth of property sold which is far far more than they need to settle the court cases?
Where is the money being spent?
Last Edited By: birdwoman2 Apr 28 14 8:47 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCacky
#28 [-]
avatar
Supreme Member
Posts: 6539
Apr 28 14 8:48 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I know when I was in, I hardly contributed for the mags and literature I took. I just couldn't afford it. If anyone gave me a contribution while in fs, and I don't remember that happening, but if it would have, I would have given it, but I couldn't afford to donate. I don't think I donated a thing in the last ten years I was in. And I'd bet that's true for a lot of struggling jws. I felt like my time was my donation.
status offlinepalmel1234
#29 [-]
avatar
Indispensible Poster
Posts: 3056
Apr 28 14 9:44 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I know when I was in, I hardly contributed for the mags and literature I took.
Ha, I always pocketed the money I got from magazine placements. smiley: smile
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineKBG
#30 [-]
avatar
Platinum Level Member
Posts: 481
Apr 28 14 7:33 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
palmel1234 wrote:
I know when I was in, I hardly contributed for the mags and literature I took.
Ha, I always pocketed the money I got from magazine placements. smiley: smile
Did you really get much money for the mags? We always paid for them, then gave any contributions that we got in field service, but, I have to tell you we really didn't push too hard to get money and we rarely did. We were lucky to get a quarter for every $5 that we spent.
status offlineFiguringitout20
#31 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
Apr 28 14 8:01 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Of the 1,000s of hours I spent in field service, I probably received a grand total of $20 in donations. When I was a kid one sweet grandmotherly lady always paid in the form of candy bars. That was my favorite return visit ever.
status offlinehalf banana
#32 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 29 14 1:49 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Then it does look like the WTBTS are not making that much from the mags, nevertheless their income in the early part of this century, for one year, was just short of a billion Dollars.
From a recollection of a GB member telling someone around the year 2000 that the income was always steady, I assume that that expectation was not met,especially after the 2008 world financial downturn, yet the outgoings remained the same.
The result would be the need to cut corners and ditch the luxuries like branches and DOs and suck more money from the faithful including those in the developing world. What else would explain present money grabbing?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineSwingLifeAway
#33 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++
Posts: 2701
Apr 29 14 5:50 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Birdwoman - for now, it's more than enough. They will run through it though defending these cases and losing them. And if there was to be a class action suit...
Plus I would be willing to bet they're dipping into this money to pay for yearly expenses. Maybe they've quietly reinvested somewhere?
I think it looks like they've made a little more than $300 million off of property sales. Definitely looking more like $1-1.5 billion.
I heard a really hilarious reason for the "consolidation" of the branches last night from my parents. Apparently it shows that the Witnesses are the true religion because their branches don't have borders dictated by "men." Apparently this was in a magazine.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlinebelladiane
#34 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 236
Apr 30 14 6:14 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Gee maybe they should change their 'no continued education or better jobs' as those donations they have received all these years were from educated and well employed members! I can see it now...."The GB has new light, they feel that people should go out and use the world to the fullest extent to bring more money to help congregation's that are struggling" What do you guys think....no higher education, no better jobs, no money for the society....something has to give,
status offlinehalf banana
#35 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
May 1 14 5:15 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
If they permitted their followers to be educated they could no longer get away with arguments such as their “branches don’t have borders dictated by men”. This only works to an audience of uneducated grovellers.
The next stage is to rule the pathetic Watchtower slaves by internet edicts, dissolve all the branches, pocket the cash and continue to claim the end is nigh!
It’s a tried, tested and very successful scam...
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineCacky
#36 [-]
avatar
Supreme Member
Posts: 6539
May 1 14 12:36 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I also have wondered why they don't change their stance on higher education. The Mormans promote it and it doesn't seem to hurt their membership, and it helps with better earning followers to donate. I woulnd't be surprised if the borg doesn't make a switch on that for just that reason.
status offlinehalf banana
#37 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
7 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
The Borg only give instructions to the sheep which will promote their own interests. (Like their inane comment “branches don’t have borders made by men” and "don't go to university")
University education, especially in science and the arts, require sceptical and honest investigation into what is real.
This is diametrically opposed to indoctrination and belief based on religious authority; the very method on which the Watchtower functions. With a critical analysis of Watchtower belief and doctrine, it is soon reduced to the rubble of wishful thinking based on superstitious belief. Most JWs who go to university soon lose their religious enthusiasm when confronted with critical thinking and the evidence for such things as evolution.
So they can't have it both ways; be educated and still believe in childish fairytale.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#38 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
3 days ago
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I was raised to believe there was no point in further education as the world was ending. Then when I was old enough to go off to senior high school ... I was sent out to the local technical college instead, so that I could have a 'trade' to fall back on. That 'trade' ended up being office and secretarial skills ... which I have to admit have kept me in work and in good stead ever since ...... but the world STILL hasn't ended and further education is still frowned on 30 plus years later!
I'm glad that there are jdub parents who allow their kids to go off to university or college HB. I do wonder though ... if they also realise that by doing so, they may be losing their kids 'to the world'? Perhaps that's why they allow them to go ....... because the parents never had the opportunity and now realise how silly the whole religion is. Sadly they're too entrenched to leave for themselves.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
Add Reply
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
«Prev
1
2
Next»
Jump
..
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
> Decline of the WTBTS
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies
Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 6:26:57 pm
Liverpool, England, United Kingdom: 0:26:57 am
Perth, Western Australia: 8:26:57 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 7:26:57 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.
Yuku forums
Forum Find
Forum Help
Legal
© 2014 Yuku. All rights reserved.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26702/Decline-of-the-WTBTS?page=2#.U2wg0mcU85s
Yuku free message boards
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
"Freedom lies in being yourself." -unknown author
RSS
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
> A matter of Conscience
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
.
A matter of Conscience
Author
Comment
offlineHugoVonStype.paleoplanet69529
A matter of Conscience
Lead [-]
avatar
Platinum Level Member
Posts: 329
Apr 20 14 8:14 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I have been reading the 'they just know' thread on this board, and it made me think of all those ambiguous situations where I was percieved to be doing something unspiritual, but there was no scripture to actualy cover the perceived wrong doing, e.g. I decided to widen my reading list beyond the watchtower and awake (because they boring me rigid) and decided to read some of the classics. I made the mistake of mentioning I was reading Dracula by Bram Stoker, and a 'brother' told me this was inappropriate. When I responded that it was just a story and a classic novel, the patronising response I got was 'well if you can't see that there is something wrong with you reading that, you need to re-evaluate where you are in the truth'.
I felt this was uttered because there was an 'elders wife' present. (There's a topic for another thread, being a woman and told you can't hold any responsibility, but if you're an elders wife you have associated spiritual credits/respect, but I digress). When I objected, I was told 'this is a matter for your own conscience' which was meant to indicate 'go away, think about and relaise why you are wrong'.
Does anyone else have any situations they experienced regarding Patronising spirital scoring/pecking orders involving situations that have no basis in the bible?
P.S. 'Elders Wives' ...... any experiences or comments?
status offlineFiguringitout20
#1 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
Apr 20 14 6:01 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I was never an elder's wife, but I am an elder's daughter. As a young adult I got called into a few elders mtgs. One mtg was called with me and a few others that had seen the same movie together. A newly baptized sister had gone with us to the movie and got bent out of shape over it because there was one brief scene with naked people. It was a very non-sexual scene - just the distant backsides of women getting ready in a shower room. I can't remember which movie it was, but at that time I hadn't yet watched any R rated movies. So, I know it was tame. The group of us tried to explain to the elders that it wasn't a bad movie, but they didn't care to hear a word we had to say. Their main concern was that we had offended a new one and that it was especially reproachable that an elder's daughter would see such a movie. So, in this case I was judged more so because I was an elder's daughter. Apparently I was supposed to take the lead in exiting the the theater. It was all very patronizing. We were around 20, but treated like kids, well actually worse because we were lectured without being able to present our case.
status offlinewingnut
Re: A matter of Conscience #2 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 154
Apr 23 14 2:57 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
It wasn't a total bust. You obviously must have "evaluated where you were in the truth". smiley: wink
status offlinehalf banana
#3 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 28 14 4:09 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
I remember one ludicrous prohibition mentioned from the platform. I think it was at the CO’s visit and one bro was illustrating the need to have a clear conscience. It was approaching Christmas and he asked if you worked in a store would it be alright to stack Christmas puddings. He thought JWs could not be seen to do this.
As if an all powerful creator could care less about such scandalous activity!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#4 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
Apr 30 14 12:16 AM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
We had the elders wives collective plus the elders ... look down their noses at any type of activity that involved 'physical contact'. This meant the only form of permissible dancing at 'get togethers' (don't you just loathe that phrase!) was of course ... square dancing ... or squareS dancing as I called it. Wearing coloured nail varnish ... big no no. Wearing makeup except of course being one of the said elders wives collective ... big no no. Sitting next to a single male without first seeking permission to marry him ... big no no. Having parents considered spiritually weak ... big no no.
Boring existence really!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineFiguringitout20
#5 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
7 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
=1emSitting next to a single male without first seeking permission to marry him ... big no no.
This struck me really funny!
status offlineFiguringitout20
#6 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
7 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Oh and yes, I always hated the term "get together". Heaven forbid you actually have a "party"!
status offlineHugoVonStype.paleoplanet69529
#7 [-]
avatar
Platinum Level Member
Posts: 329
7 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
There was even a pecking order at 'get togethers'. Some people in the congregation I went to never got invited to get togethers, or weddings or anything else! And the ones that did make it weren't any luckier. There was always the outcasts who spent all evening selecting and changing the records or hanging about in the kitchen. Also the selection of music left much to be desired. Still it made a difference from the kingdom melodies :)
status offlinecangie
#8 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)+
Posts: 1422
6 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Figuringitout20 wrote:
Oh and yes, I always hated the term "get together". Heaven forbid you actually have a "party"!
Yeah, Fig...but I hated the word "gathering" even more. It sets my teeth on edge because it always reminded me of a group of animals herded together (hmmm...maybe not so far off the mark). And, no...no "parties." No one should ever have a good time. That lack of social exposure has made it impossible for me to be comfortable on social occasions, like "black tie" events or cocktail parties. I have never attended either one, and probably won't.
status offlineFiguringitout20
#9 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 130
6 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Cangie, Yes, "gathering" is even lamer than "get together". I don't think that term was in common use in my area. I probably would have laughed if someone said "Let's have a gathering" Makes me think of gathering fruit in crops.
Hugo, I was in the elder/pioneer circle when I was in and sadly never noticed the pecking order while deeply in. But you are so right. Once I stepped away I noticed those that weren't invited, etc. Kingdom melodies. .. "We're Jehovah's Witnesses! We speak out in fearlessness. Ours is the God of true prophecy. What he foretell comes to be." OMG it's been SO many years and I still remember so many lyrics! Need to get that out of my head!!
status offlinewoohoo
#10 [-]
avatar
Bronze Level Member
Posts: 31
5 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
The term "gathering" was used here. There were definite cliques in the congregation I was in. It was sad to see how some people were just left out of things, and those were usually the people that could have used a little extra kindness.
Figuring, it's funny that I have had that song stuck in my head all week. I finally had to change the lyrics in order to have a little comic relief:
"They're Jehovah's Witnesses! I think they're so full of sh*t! There's is the God of false prophecy eeee! Nothing he foretold came to be!"
status offlinehalf banana
#11 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
5 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Your lyrics are far more accurate Woohoo... there could be a whole apostate song book waiting to be written!Cheesy smile
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#12 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
3 days ago
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Figgy ..... I remember throwing caution to the wind and NOT sitting next to someone with a view to marrying him (also a phrase I hate ... 'a view to marrying ...' what IS that? haha) ...................... so I walked right up the front with my male friend and we sat smack bang in the middle of the front row so that no-one had to turn around to see what we were up to! I lost count after that meeting of how many people came up to ask if we were going to get married. I was just 17 from memory.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
Add Reply
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
..
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
> A matter of Conscience
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies
Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 6:29:19 pm
Liverpool, England, United Kingdom: 0:29:19 am
Perth, Western Australia: 8:29:19 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 7:29:19 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.
Yuku forums
Forum Find
Forum Help
Legal
© 2014 Yuku. All rights reserved.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26787/A-matter-of-Conscience#.U2whX2cU85s
Yuku free message boards
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
"What progress, you ask, have I made? I have begun to be a friend to myself." -Hecato, Greek philosopher
RSS
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> Tell Your JW Story Board
> Many Years Out But the Memories Linger On!
Add Reply New Topic
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
.
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
.
Many Years Out But the Memories Linger On!
Author
Comment
offlinerainbow
Many Years Out But the Memories Linger On!
Lead [-]
avatar
Registered Member
Posts: 5
Apr 3 14 6:01 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
About 40 years ago I attended a Sunday meeting that was a special talk for the young people. The elder carried in a brown paper bag containing dirt. He spoke to the young folk of the congregation, telling them that if they gave in to their desires to self gratify they would end up being a bag of dirt. He likened sexual self gratification to a wolf licking blood off a knife, lick, lick, lick, and that eventually one would cause harm to oneself. I cannot believe I did not get up and walk out and never look back at that point. That room was beyond deathly quiet. I find it to be so completely disgusting and spiritually abusive. If all the congregations gave the same talks simultaneously, I am sure someone else somewhere must remember this particularly vile use of the bible to instill fear in young people. This was somewhere in the mid 70s. Thanks for letting me post here. Visited by JWs yesterday. Had to get this off my chest!
status offlineRaine
#1 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)+
Posts: 1061
Apr 3 14 7:15 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Welcome rainbow!! Glad you posted.
This religion is so unhealthy. All it does it create fear and anxiety. Turning things that are natural to be something evil and "dirty". The "Young People Ask" book. (hailed as a godsend)
was a book I felt so negatively about. Stunting sexual maturity and causing teenage marriage and pregnancy for around 2 decades.
I had to laugh when I read your post. the bag of dirt and wolf analogy. Typical JW "examples" when given the slightest thought proves to be nothing but fallacious reasoning.
It honestly hurts the brain to try to absorb the level of stupid in those "examples". And yet we all sat there and listened and took notes and accepted.
At least until we hit our BS limit.
Thanks for sharing.
I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming
"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"
I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me.
status offlineGoingForth
#2 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 650
Apr 3 14 7:40 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Hi Rainbow
Welcome
Did you tell your visitors what you just told us? Tell us more about the visit.
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even touched—
They must be felt with the heart.”
Helen Keller
status offlinerainbow
#3 [-]
avatar
Registered Member
Posts: 5
Apr 3 14 9:06 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
BS limit. How true. I shake my head in disbelief that I tolerated any of it. I could not focus on reading the literature. And completely paraphrased when reading the Great Teacher book to my small son, which was not that often, either. I was not a good witness! I forget the term for what I was - fence-sitter? Weak? Worldly? Bad Association? Maybe all of the above. My real flaw was that in my early 20s my character had not formed enough to be able to reject the love-bombing by a neighbor. She was a very strong devout Witness and pulled me right in. i enjoyed the bible study and her friendship until i realized that everyone i knew and loved would be destroyed at Armageddon. (I even secretly wished my parents dead so they would be resurrected. ) My Witness neighbor also had mathmatically calculated how many people would survive into the new system, including those resurrected and how much land each person would have ownership of. !!! I'm serious. This is crazy.
And Going Forth, about the JWs at the door. I actually recognized one from a class i took a few years back. Two very nice ladies, but I cut it short and just said I am not interested in any organized religion and they politely left. I am very nonconfrontational and feel sorry for the sheep. But later in the day the Bag -o-Dirt memory came back to me and I wish I had recalled that. As I write this reply the saying at the bottom of your post, about why listen to someone who won't let you speak is not showing up for me to quote accurately, but that sums it up. I am DF'd so why engage? If asked if I was DF'd I would not lie and that would be the end of any discourse!
Reading some of the other posts here I realize how much more deeply wounded many people are and my heart goes out to them. It helps to know someone is listening and acknowledging their feelings as valid. Those lingering thoughts that anyone venting or supporting a forum such as this is evil and will be destroyed, STILL pops up into my psyche! 40 years later!!! Thank you for being here. Healing can go on for many years. I am verging on really accepting that there is a loving God who cares about me and all of humankind.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#4 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
Apr 3 14 10:45 PM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Hi Rainbow ..... I remember all kinds of sinister and sickening analogies used to instill fear and guilt into the hearts and minds of young kids. It was bad enough seeing the adults gulping and sitting wide-eyed ....... despicable way to treat kids though!
It's not a flaw to be sucked in by smooth talking religious zealots Rainbow. I'm sure if you were to analyse what else was going on around you at the time ... you'll see what really happened. Your zealous pushy friend recognised something in you that she knew she could tweak to her advantage. She is the one with the flaw. It's not nice to look for vulnerabilities in others and then suck them dry and smother them with liberal doses of fear and guilt one minute ... and keep them sucked in with friendship and 'love' the next. Don't be so hard on yourself!
The great thing about our little forum ... is that we're amongst a big bunch of people from all over the world who instinctively understand what we've been through. Our stories may vary ... our families still stuck in the religion may treat us differently from other families ... but it's positive proof that we're not alone in how we think and feel ... and we never will be alone! The WBTS has damaged many many lives and will continue to do so. It is people like us who share our stories and our memories ... who will help those who perhaps still are sitting on the fence trying to decide which way to climb off!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinesolitaire
#5 [-]
avatar
Posts: 16863
Apr 4 14 4:40 AM
Administrator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Hey rainbow hello and welcome :-)
It doesn't matter how long since we were embroiled in the organisation, sometimes we still all feel the need to vent..........and what better place than among others who totally understand the legacy of being under the jw spell!!
Often I will be gaily going about my life until something (such as a jw visit to the door) will stir up well-buried memories and emotions.............once you know that facts about the organisation, it is really hard to realise that there are so many people STILL faithfully trying to do the impossible, live up to the cruel and impossibly skewed dictates of the religion....maybe even being coerced into shunning family members, and trying to live in a world they are told they are no part of smiley: sick
The advent of the internet has been such a lifeline for those who leave the religion, cos it means that their tactics of isolation to try and force members back no longer work so well............it is such a help to be in contact with others from all over the world who understand how difficult it is to take back control of your life, and who are there to help each other....
Good to have you here
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineMarked for life
#6 [-]
avatar
Gold Level Member
Posts: 104
Apr 4 14 7:54 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Hi Rainbow and welcome! Isn't it crazy how this stuff that we heard can come back and haunt us! Glad you found our little group. This group is one the most supportive groups of people I have ever had the privilege to converse with. We have all lived it in our own ways and there is great strength and power in support like this. We have fun too! I can be good again and we're not alone in the world. And too see more showing up with new and fresh energy from all over the globe is fantastic. Keep visiting and posting. Love ya!
status offlinerainbow
#7 [-]
avatar
Registered Member
Posts: 5
Apr 4 14 9:41 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Thank you all for your encouraging and welcoming words. The clouds are clearing and you've given me much to meditate on today. Y'all appear to know exactly what I'm talking about! I have a few more rants in me so stay tuned. This is the Watchtower's worst nightmare ie, people sharing experiences and feelings honestly. Have a wonderful day.
status offlineVeronicaBee
#8 [-]
avatar
Silver Level Member
Posts: 88
Apr 6 14 8:10 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
That wolf analogy was so negative with undertones of violence it made me uneasy reading it. Glad you let it out though! I've been out for about 14 years and still struggle once in a while. Thanks for sharing. Be true to yourself.
Rise up nimbly and go on your strange journey
to the ocean of meanings.
The stream knows it can't stay on the mountain.
Leave and don't look away from the sun as you go,
in whose light you're sometimes crescent, sometimes full. - Rumi
status offlineKBG
#9 [-]
avatar
Platinum Level Member
Posts: 481
Apr 7 14 4:20 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Usually when I think back to the main doctrines, or the odd talks, I always think:" God what a bunch of crap".
Glad we have our freedom.
status offlineCacky
#10 [-]
avatar
Supreme Member
Posts: 6539
Apr 8 14 10:09 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Many of their talks are emotionally and spititually abusive. Wish I had realized that when my kids were little. They've been really affected by all they listened to over the years.
status offlinehalf banana
#11 [-]
avatar
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)
Posts: 911
Apr 18 14 1:37 AM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Welcome to the site Rainbow and thank you for your post here. What a horrid public talk! Religious belief is easily enforced by fear isn’t it? It is how the Watchtower governing body control people. Then because the believers see the other witnesses doing and saying the same things, they imagine it must be right.
To put the wind up people is easy but by contrast it is so much harder to get a grasp of the real world by getting a proper education; questioning premises, questioning so called facts and building on the tangible evidence for things.
So realising that the Watchtower is wrong and that the world had it right after all--- makes a big change in our lives.
Glad you are on our side where we don’t need ‘new light’... the sun is good enough!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#12 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
Apr 27 14 10:19 PM
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Rainbow ..... rant and vent away! We have really large air vents in here to keep the good air circulating!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinerainbow
#13 [-]
avatar
Registered Member
Posts: 5
6 days ago
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Thank you. I've been visiting alot of sites with JW info and it is just truly shocking what I read!! Before internet we were all isolated, surrounded by our pain and self loathing. Amazing to see how many folks have been experiencing the same thing and can now reach out and connect, be heard, and validated. So, I am here, reading, processing, and healing with the rest of you.
I will read something that makes so much sense and it will become my "mantra for the day", for instance, I read somewhere (not the exact quote), that truth will hold up to scrutiny....such a refreshing thought! We can use our minds. They work! Satan is not ready to pounce at the slightest discourse.
And I am taking back my own mind! If I need time to process something, I will take the time I need. I remember telling the high-control zealot neighbor and her JW buddy, that I needed some time to think about all they had told me. Their response in unison, "YOU DON'T HAVE TIME!"
And my response to them now, 40 years later, "I have taken the time I need to process the Watchtower information, and well, I'll pass...but thanks for stopping by. " ;O))
status offlineAndriaSyxx
#14 [-]
avatar
Posts: 30085
3 days ago
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Good for you Rainbow! I love it when a door banger tells me there's 'no time left' and I say 'yep ... and you lot have been saying that since I was a little girl!'
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinepunkofnice
#15 [-]
avatar
Posts: 5861
A day ago
Forum Moderator
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Welcome Rainbow.
It looks as if the dirtbag brother(tm) was using his own stupidity to make these illustrations.
I've met some real idiots that were elders that congratulate themselves for coming out with this nonsense.
Poor deluded fools.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>
Add Reply
Forum Jump
Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Tell Your JW Story Board
Coping Board
Cheerful Chat and News Nook
Health, Nutrition and Self-Improvement
General Non-Religious Topic Board
JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
Jehovah's Witnesses in the News
Debate and Controversy
Science and Technology Board
Anger Management
Humor Board
Movie, Music, and Book Discussion
Creativity Corner
Picture Forum
Forum Announcements
Technical Help and Suggestion Box
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization--- Resource Links
Ex-JW Meetup Board
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
..
Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery Site
> Tell Your JW Story Board
> Many Years Out But the Memories Linger On!
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies
Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 6:30:06 pm
Liverpool, England, United Kingdom: 0:30:06 am
Perth, Western Australia: 8:30:06 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 7:30:06 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.
Yuku forums
Forum Find
Forum Help
Legal
© 2014 Yuku. All rights reserved.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26725/Many-Years-Out-But-the-Memories-Linger-On#.U2whjmcU85s
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
No comments:
Post a Comment