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Survey on Mormonism and Mitt says…  
Posted: 26 October 2012 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Mitt = Mormonism.
 
Reid ≠ Mormonism.
 
Pretty telling little study. 
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Posted: 26 October 2012 02:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Wouldn't it be interesting to see where Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would fall on that chart?
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Posted: 26 October 2012 05:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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What Is Wanted:
Wouldn't it be interesting to see where Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would fall on that chart?
 
 It would be even more interesting to see the results of this question about JS and BY, without naming them, but using accurate descriptions of them.  I think the descriptions of both would score a big 0 on "That person accurately represents the LDS faith."  But, if you just used their names, it would be a 100%.  (The results displayed in the chart were responses from people who identified as Mormon)
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Posted: 26 October 2012 07:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Was thinking this morning, while watching Bonanza...if any or all of Dan Blocker's children are still in the church. Back in the day, he was bigger then the Osmonds.
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Posted: 27 October 2012 12:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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I find this poll interesting as Mitt is also associated with being a liar to many.  The apple does not fall far from the tree.  Also, Marriot has a high rating among Mormons and is or was a major distributor of pornography.  The blindness of TBM's just makes you shake your heard. 

   


Posted: 27 October 2012 03:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder:
Mitt = Mormonism.
 
Reid ≠ Mormonism.
 
Pretty telling little study. 
 
 It makes sense to me.  The Mormon Church is actually a political action committee for the republican party.
 
 Reid doesn't belong to the group.
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Posted: 28 October 2012 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Hiker Daddy:
Swearing Elder:
Mitt = Mormonism.
 
Reid ≠ Mormonism.
 
Pretty telling little study. 
 
 It makes sense to me.  The Mormon Church is actually a political action committee for the republican party.
 
 Reid doesn't belong to the group.
 
Slight correction: A mall-building political action committee. 
 
 
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Financial Report for 2011 to Date

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Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

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Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



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Different rules for “Mormon Royalty”  
Posted: 02 April 2012 10:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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I noticed that one of the talks during conference this past weekend included a story about a girl who chose to play in a soccer tournament that was on Sunday, then felt horrible about it, and vowed never to do that on the Sabbath again.  (If it was breaking the sabbath that makes one feel horrible, and not the fact that your parents and church community have made it clear they think it was wrong, then why is it just the mormon kid that felt horrible?)
 
 While I can actually get behind the gist of the talk (let kids have the freedom to make some of their own decisions as they mature....yes, that's a good thing) I bristle at the message that a young person supporting her teammates by not bailing on them during the tournament is somehow offensive to God.
 
In the meantime, people like Steve Young make careers out of Sunday sports and broadcasting and the church has no problem using their notoriety when it suits their PR needs.  (That comment was not meant to be about Steve Young, but about the church's attitude toward it in contrast to the attitude they have toward your average member).
 
And the there's Mitt Romney, who apparently also follow different sabbath rules than the run of the mill worker bee member is expected to:
 
http://news.yahoo.com/romney-falls-elaborate-april-fools-prank-195510376.html
 
 
Why didn't we hear a talk about how "so in so, who was a public figure and in the running for president, showed a great act of humility and faith and refrained from campaigning on Sunday and instead spent it in worship and quiet reflection, having faith that in contrast to the wisdom of the world that would say he could not succeed if he gave up Sundays, had faith the Lord would more than make up for it...."
 
No.., there will be no stories about how awful Mitt or [insert other Mormon Royalty here], felt after they decided to do something on Sunday...that crushing guilt is saved for teenagers who are wrestling with the decisions of whether to pursue their talents and support their team members, who don't always have the same religious beliefs as they do, or else "honor the lord" by sitting through 3 hours of the same old same old. 
 
Notice that it wasn't important enough for them to make a sacrifice and not participate in a sport they knew ahead of time they could not commit to....instead they joined right up then basically blamed the team for not honoring the sabbath like they should have been doing.  Let the team do the suffering.  After all, they should be honoring the sabbath just like the non judgmental, community supporting, "allow all men the same privilege" mormons do....basically wasting the day in meetings.
 
 
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Posted: 03 April 2012 12:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Don't forget the church runs its many TV and radio stations "full speed ahead" every sunday. The Deseret News is printed and delivered (often by young kids) every sunday morning. The Spoken Word is broadcast live sunday morning, requiring cameramen, audio tech's etc etc. If honoring the sabbath was really important, the church would act very, very differently. But, as in all things from the church's point of view, money first...everything else secondary.
 
Yes, different rules for mormon royalty and especially for the church itself. 
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Posted: 03 April 2012 12:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Posted: 03 April 2012 12:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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MTC cafeteria workers work on sunday too. Cold cereal for breakfast but the other two meals are like any other day 

   


Posted: 03 April 2012 01:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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This shit is what really pisses me off about the church.  My DW's family didn't attend our wedding because I didn't go on a mission.  They are huge Steve Young and Jimmer fans. 

   


Posted: 03 April 2012 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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This whole thread reminds me of a love-fest that Paul Dunn threw for Dale Murphy at a devotional at BYU in the early 80s. It was mostly about Murphy's career, his greatness as an athlete, with a soft inspirational message thrown in. I enjoyed it actually, but the cog dis was in full bloom. This was, of course, well before Dunn's pro baseball career was proven to be a big fraud. The hits just keep on coming.
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Posted: 03 April 2012 04:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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GQ Cannonball:
This whole thread reminds me of a love-fest that Paul Dunn threw for Dale Murphy at a devotional at BYU in the early 80s. It was mostly about Murphy's career, his greatness as an athlete, with a soft inspirational message thrown in. I enjoyed it actually, but the cog dis was in full bloom. This was, of course, well before Dunn's pro baseball career was proven to be a big fraud. The hits just keep on coming.
 
 I'm off my game today. From an old Sports Illustrated article:
 
"In 1976, though, Murphy was being touted as the next Johnny Bench. He had the prerequisites: a live bat and a rifle arm. He also had a new religion, and he wanted to serve a two-year mission, as young members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints frequently do. Ted Turner, owner of the Braves, got wind of this and asked Murphy's parents if he could talk to Dale. They said yes, but be careful, Dale's very serious about this. So Turner reached Murphy in Portland and the first thing he said was, "What's all this Mormon stuff? If you need to make converts, I'll let you work on me and my five kids."
Turner didn't talk Murphy out of his mission, but some officials of the church, including a former minor league pitcher named Paul Dunn, convinced him that he could serve while playing. But then something happened. Murphy began to develop a mental block about throwing to second base. He would either hit the pitcher, even if he were crouching on the mound, or he would throw the ball into the outfield. As his father told him, "One thing's for sure, Dale. Nobody will be stealing centerfield on you."
 
Cracks me up.
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Posted: 03 April 2012 06:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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One of my former roommates went to BYU and told me that while he was there he learned that in order to date Marie Osmond, the young man needed to go through an interview with his Bishop and his Stake President, and then would be given a recommend just to BE ELIGIBLE TO DATE HER.  Not a temple recommend mind you.  A Marie Osmond recommend.  Lol.
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Posted: 03 April 2012 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Some of the Osmonds (Merrill, Jay, Jimmy) are currently touring in the UK- 50 dates. Several are on Sundays. They are also holding FHE's - on Monday nights- in stake centres. On sacrosanct Monday nights! Packed to capacity of course. When I was a keyholder in our ward, I asked permission once to use the cultural hall for our family FHE, to play sports with our kids. Permission refused because anyone passing and seeing the lights on would assume the church was holding meetings on a Monday night. 

   


Posted: 03 April 2012 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Oh, how I remember the bishop insisting those of us on Swim team had to quit the team, because meets were on Sundays!
We refused, and paid a price - our families were "inactive" and therefore our parents couldn't go to the temple!
Then the bishop moved. A new bishop was put in place, and dad and my  granddad pulled some strings. Suddenly there was always a room set up for us "mormons" at the meets, and we had an opportunity to represent the church, AND be active all at the same time! (PNW...1975-78)
Seems the idea kinda took hold. Several other "religions" had meetings available for their athletes too. Don't know if this is something that still happens for the athletes of other religions, but I also recall a GA saying it wasn't right, and it was too hard to have local authorities be in charge of such meetings, and if there weren't local authorities attending, then the meetings weren't sanctioned!  What a crock!
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Posted: 03 April 2012 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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In one stake we were in, probably 15 years ago, there was a Greg Olsen fireside on a Sunday night, hosted/put on by the local lds bookstore, sanctioned and promoted by the stake. They had prints and books stacked up for people to buy that night. Then someone must have felt guilty because they then announced that you could just sign a form and take the book home that you wanted and pay for it later. Buying on credit on Sunday! I was ticked. I know many who did 'buy books' that night and didn't think twice. Silly me for trying to keep the commandments.
 
(Red Deer, Alberta, Canada, stake - if anyone cares.) 


   


Posted: 03 April 2012 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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And don't forget that the leaders are only human and make mistakes, we need to allow for that and accept their faults.  TBM's on the other hand are told to go to said leadership and confess their mistakes (known as sins for the run of the mill member) so a proper penance can be paid.  

   


Posted: 03 April 2012 04:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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This double standard on sabbath observance was always a sticking point for me. The church news and the New Era were always having articles about so and so who did not play in the championship game even though it was on a Sunday. Yet sabbath-breakers like Steve Young, Dale Murphy, Garth and Dane Iorg, Danny Ainge, Bill "porn and liquor in hotels" Marriott etc. are always held up as paragons of mormon virtue and success.
 
Another thing that pisses me off to no end is the double standard on humility. Jeebus said when you do your alms, do them in secret. Yet when the morg does alms (i.e. humanitarian service, relief in the wake of natural disasters etc.) they always have a camera crew in tow and everybody is wearing those "mormon helping hands" t-shirts, creating plenty of photo ops and publicity. "Look at the good we do!" My wife has bought into this big time. She tells me that even if the church isn't true, look at all the good it does. 
 
 I hate the freakin' morg! 
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Posted: 03 April 2012 11:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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So any money made by Osmonds on Sunday...can't be "tithed" because it was obtained....on the Sabbath? (hmm yeah/no...)
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Posted: 04 April 2012 03:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Marvin Ashton's grandson was one of my mission companions. Over a year into his mission he confessed to stuff (from both before and during his mission) that would get a "lesser" member promptly ex'd. But instead there was a meeting between the mission pres, his home stake pres. and Elder Ashton, and he was back with my the very next night. (Alternating between feeling guilty for the special treatment and laughing his ass off because he realized he could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted.) 

   


            
 
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Elder Archuleta  
Posted: 20 December 2011 09:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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When I was (much) younger, I was told that the Osmonds did not serve missions because they were too recognizable and that they were doing plenty of good "missionary work" through their music. I was therefore somewhat surprised to see Jimmy Osmond in the MTC when i was there.
 
Now it has been announced that David Archuleta is going on a mission. I suppose he does not do as much "good" as the Osmonds. 
 
For the record, I recognize his name, I know that he was on American Idol (which I never watch), but I couldn't pick him out of a line-up if my life depended on it.
 
So just how does "preferential" treatment get doled out by the church? Who decides? What are the criteria?
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Posted: 20 December 2011 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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All decisions of that nature, for that matter ALL decisions regarding LD$ Inc. requires a great deal of long thoughtful, prayerful fasts by the upper management...
 
On the outside....
 
 
On the inside----
 
Whatever fattens the bottom line of the ledger book.
 
 
 
 
 
In the case of the Osmonds, there were 6 of them all throwing coin at the church coffers, plus the parents, who got a piece of the performance pie.
 
Archuleta, meh, shopping malls don't pay 3rd rate singers all that much, so it's a mission for that one, it is... 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Posted: 20 December 2011 10:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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They'll send him to Paris, because that's where the mormon elite and suddenly popular go, like Elizabeth Smart. Didn't Romney go to France? France is like a refinement school for mormons in the media. 

   


Posted: 21 December 2011 12:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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They send them to France because they think with their "known" faces...they will bring in more converts then the average Joe/Josie....
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 21 December 2011 12:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Green Jello
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Read the first comment to the article...
 
"I was there in that crowd and it was amazing to see how fast people jumped to their feet! And what faith and courage he had to announce that. It's hard in today's world where everyone is telling you who to be or how to live your life. But David Archuleta took the time to ask God what was best for his life. I'm so proud of him for doing what he believe in! He's an incredible person!"
 
 
 
WTF is so courageous and faith promoting about announcing in downtown SLC that you'll serve an LDS mission??  OF COURSE, the crowd will go nuts. 
 
I wonder if he'll enjoy being told who to be and how to live his life 
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Posted: 21 December 2011 01:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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I think TBMs generally confuse "excitement" (or any strong emotion, for that matter) with "faith-promoting experiences." My last RS president announced that she was going to have triplets (already had 4 kids under 7) and women were calling that "a faith-promoting experience." I am generally suspicious of TBMs using that phrase. grin I am sure he will have a good mission, probably in a first world country with a loyal fan-base and the ability to publicize his righteousness. I guess there are worse things a b-list celebrity can do with their time though. 

   


Posted: 21 December 2011 03:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Highly doubt he'll do much on-the-ground tracting.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 21 December 2011 05:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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I saw that clip on FB all day!  My TBM friends are going nuts over him.
 
 
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Osmonds on Joy Behar.  I’m getting douche chills.  
Posted: 30 August 2011 02:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Posted: 30 August 2011 02:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Joy: "So I've always wondered what's up with the magic under wear. Are you wearing it now?" Donny: "Yes I am." (A little to enthusiastically) Joy: "So what's up with them? Will you tell me about the magic underwear?" Donny: I'd rather not. It's. Juuuuuuuust sooooo soooooo so sacred. If you could just go through the temple you'd understand. That was just one of the many eye gouging inducing moments in the interview. 

   


Posted: 30 August 2011 04:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Donny: "Yes Joy it was so sacred. In fact I am old enough to remember going through the temple when things were the way they were supposed to be, and pretending to slit my throat or slash my bowels if I ever had a conversation like this with anyone." Joy: "OMG, so who came up with such horrendous actions if you were to talk about this stuff." Donny: "Well, for many years we thought it was our founding prophet Joseph Smith, but then many realized that he was too busy chasing skirt, marrying youngsters and screwing his brood of spiritual wives that he had to have found this whole ceremony elsewhere and then we had it. The Masons. We all still find the temple ceremony to be profoundly sacred even though it was stolen from another discriminatory and secret cult er a sect." Joy: "That is fascinating. Thank god I don't have to wear that underwear!"
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Posted: 30 August 2011 05:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I watched that interview.  I thought that Joy was very antagonistic.  The question about magical underwear was sensationalistic and self serving on her part because 1) she knew it would make them uncomfortable 2) she asked it anyway.  If she did her homework at all, she knew it was a disrespectful question to ask.  If she didn't do her homework, then she's not very good at her job.
The Osmonds were in turn antagonistic and defensive.  But I believe that as the host, she could have created a warmer and more friendly tone and she decided not to.  Maybe she got some good ratings with her approach, but my respect for her went down a bit.  
I'm not a Donny and Marie fan and I normally like Joy quite a bit.  But I thought that her approach lacked tact and I think she could have done more to take the high road. 
 
Obviously we know that garments are bullshit and we also know that Mormons think they're sacred.  I don't think the question was appropriate for the interview.
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Posted: 30 August 2011 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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She might as well asked why some others would wear a burkha, or a yarmulka or sheitel, or a kitl.  She doesn't have to believe it but if you're a host, it's simply rude to make it the topic of discussion.  Religious garments are nothing new, but you're not interesting on your own so let's talk about your underwear.
 
Donny should have asked her about her girdle or ridiculous shoes that cause corns.
 
Of all the things that I could find offensive about the LDS faith, garments or calling garments sacred, ain't one of them.  Religious clothing is a non-issue to me.   Clothing as symbolism is as old as the human race.
 
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How do I develop a lifestyle out of Mormonism?
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The perfect excuse for polyandry
by Tessa
Downtown Bus Robber Takes A Ride To The Floor
by Elder OldDog
Will Utah allow 'married gays' to marry opposite sex in the State also?
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Name Finally Removed
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Religious Trauma Syndrome
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President Uchtdorf: Mistakes (#3) by Leaders and Members.
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I'm returning and reporting after being off this site for a while.
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Don't hold your breath waiting for LDS Inc to apologize for its obvious racism.
by Celestial Wedgie
Was Michael Jackson Mormon????
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Three questions or more
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Advice for getting someone to leave Mormonism
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Race and the Priesthood: Back to the Future edition
by Tessa
Temple Recommend Question Answered for LDS Church
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Duck Dynasty
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Masterbating
by Tessa
New Essay = Polygamy
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Yet Another Apostate & TBM Divorce
by Swearing Elder 

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Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
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Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Salt Lake Events the week before christmas
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SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/1)
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Joseph's Changing Myth with Grant Palmer -- Nov 6 -- 7pm -- SLC Library
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Marie went back too soon….  
Posted: 18 March 2010 03:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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  http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b172225_marie_osmond_not_in_singing_mood_after.html
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 18 March 2010 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Were I ever to be in such rarefied air, I would truly love to buy Marie a drink and have a nice long talk...
 
It's been 45 years since we were in the same ward. 
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Posted: 18 March 2010 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Perhaps the tragic death of her son will be the catalyst that pushes her out of Mormonism for good, to become one of the biggest defectors in recent years and an spokesperson for postmos and LGBT equality alike. Hey, I can dream can't I? grin
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Posted: 18 March 2010 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Hey, that isn't a garment worthy outfit, is it? Not to detract from her pain and sadness, but just sayin'. . . . .
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Posted: 19 March 2010 06:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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YesIAmAPyr:
Were I ever to be in such rarefied air, I would truly love to buy Marie a drink and have a nice long talk...
 
It's been 45 years since we were in the same ward. 
 
 Donny's family was in my home ward about 15ish years ago. Man those Osmonds get around, LOL. Nothing like getting your sacrament passed to you by the son of an Osmond.
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Posted: 19 March 2010 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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This brings up a larger question for me.....are Mormons allowed to grieve?
 
 


   


Posted: 19 March 2010 04:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Entertainment mormons are on a constant mission...and nope, they must "show go on" through everything. Remember, they're promised Celestial Kingdom reunions.....
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


            
 
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Quite a catty commentary on Osmond funeral.  
Posted: 09 March 2010 01:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Yeah, so my MSN homepage says that none other than President Monson presided over Michael Osmonds funeral today. 
 
I have many questions.  First question - why?  Second question - the deceased was formerly in rehab and took his own life.  I'm pretty quite sure that Mormon Theology does not allow this young, troubled man into the Celestial Kingdom under such circumstances.  Is this correct?  Third question - yeah, how in the hell did that happen, that the prophet ended up presiding over this young mans funeral? 
 
I admit this is catty.  I don't think this would have pleased the deceased in the least.  The church didn't seem to be helping him all that much.  Of course I did not know the deceased, nor any of his family.  Still - did they ask the prophet?  Did the prophet volunteer?  I've never heard of this happening before. 
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 01:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet:  Third question - yeah, how in the hell did that happen, that the prophet ended up presiding over this young mans funeral? 
 
I'm pretty sure it's all a bullshit PR move.  He was LDS, from a famous LDS family, and his death made national news.  Time for the church to swoop in and put a happy loving  spin on things to make the church look good.
 
If this kid didn't come from a famous LDS family, Tom wouldn't give a rat's ass.
 
What a dick.
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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I feel like this shouldn't bother me.  But yes, you are correct.  Has Pres Monson presided over any other young mans funeral when suicide and addiction were involved? 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 01:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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No matter what we may think or who may have presided over this young man's funeral, Marie lost her son.
 
There is no greater loss than that of a troubled child.  Just because you're an Osmond doesn't mean you don't have problems just like everyone else.
 
I had a dear friend from Utah whose son tried to commit suicide on numerous occasions but his "friends" didn't think it was necessary to tell his mother.  He finally succeeded and much to her horror, she discovered his body - you just don't know what is going thru kids heads when they do these things. 
 
So let's not be too harsh on Pres. Monson or his part in the funeral.  If he didn't want to be there, he would have declined the invitation or would not have made an offer to be there.
 



   


Posted: 09 March 2010 01:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Every Exmo is looking at that and realizing it for what it is, a totally blatant PR move by the church. Every TBM is going to get all misty eyed and trembling lipped, so happy that TM is there for the Osmonds. On top of the fact that Roseanne Barr made her comment that the unfortunate boy was gay (not proven), it is like saying the church shows compassion for unfortunate young men of that persuasion. Disgusting. 

   


Posted: 09 March 2010 01:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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And Marie will go back on "Entertainment Tonight" touting how wonderful the church was to her, in her time of need....
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Posted: 09 March 2010 01:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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It would be a wonderful comfort to every Mormon parent to come have the prophet himself conduct the funerals of their beloved children.  I've just never heard of it happening before.
 
Certainly nobody is suggesting the Osmonds are not suffering greatly nor am I trying to minimize the pain this young man was in.  I was chronically, severely depressed while in the church.  I have looked into that abyss.  I have nothing but compassion for this young man. 
 
When I was at BYU a young man killed himself on the front steps of the temple.  I do not recall the prophet coming to speak at his funeral, although we were right there in Provo, just like this was. 
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 01:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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@CadillacCTS2009, I agree the Osmonds are suffering and nobody here is saying otherwise.
 
But Mishmagnet is correct, this seems weird. The prophet of the church cannot possibly go to every funeral of troubled, addicted suicides by mormon boys. 
 
Then why did he go to this one?
 
I don't think he personally knew the man. It was said in the news report that he's friends with the Osmonds, but still.
 
This is the time for the church to shine, when the cameras are rolling.
 
This just smacks of PR and posturing.  It's blatantly obvious from where we stand. There are so many other funerals of people who know GAs and former friends of Prophets and they attend some and not others. How do they choose?
 
Monson doesn't get in front of the TV at all. He's conspicously absent as a leader. He doesn't even have words of wisdom and comfort for the people of Haiti or Chile, but he's there in front of the camera for the Osmond funeral.
 
I guess they are more important than the saints in Haiti or Chile. They need a message of comfort in their time of death.
 
The Haitians and Chileans don't need any comfort in their time of death, they are on their own.
 
See it for what it really is. Posturing for the cameras
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Posted: 09 March 2010 02:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Several missionaries have died recently, mostly of asphyxiation in rundown housing. I know that GA's have then spoken at their funerals (not President Monson). I wonder one day, if a grieving parent will stand, and demand publicly to know why their sons or daughters were living in such places. Affirmations of love to the Osmonds. I can't imagine...
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Posted: 09 March 2010 02:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Hmmm...wouldn't it be something to have had a prophet conduct a sad suicide of our gay community. I feel bad for the Osmonds..have had suicide in my own family. I read a book by Merrill Osmond that was very "telling" of his depression. It was so obvious that most of his problems stemmed from the church and expectations. Yet, he bore his testimony that the Church set him free. That being said, this seems so tacky in light of what I have been taught about suicide in the church. Just my .02 cents worth. Years from now, I hope that Marie can see how the Church in her own life has affected "finding herself" to deal with the guilt a mother always feels. Hugs, Vickie
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Posted: 09 March 2010 03:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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I agree, this is a devastating time for the Osmonds and how horrible and just plain tragic.  These are real people, and real events, real feelings and emotions felt by the people experiencing them.
 
However, isn't having Thomas S there a little showy anyway?  I don't think in this time of grief and pain that you'd need any further attention or scrutiny drawn to the matter, but I am not going to judge her or her family in their time of heartache. 
 
This issue is more about the church than Marie Osmond, or her son for that matter.
 
And I can't help but feel like having Tom be there while the cameras roll reminds a little too much type of involvement the Church of Scientology would have if this were Tom and Katie's kid or John Travola and Kelly Preston's child?  
 
In fact, since only coming out of my TBM status recently, and therefore being TBM when John and Kelly's son died -I can't help but see the unfortunate similarities to a church that we LAUGH at and mock as members of TSCC {Scientology}.  John Travolta was made to keep his son's autism a secret for fear of how that particular condition is looked at in their church.  I remember feeling so sad for him that he bought into a religion that taught him that about his son.  Amazing.  NEVER realizing I had bought into a religion that did at worse!  Anyhow, if I remember right, he too found solace in his faith during his time of need.
 
It's like there is a lot of back scratching going on the way these Churches stroke the celebrities' egos and in turn the celebrities are even more faithful, touting the religion any chance they get.  I must admit, however, that celebrities seemly do this somewhat blindly, the Churches seem in the know however, ever cognisant of their posturing efforts and how they acheive desired effects.


   


Posted: 09 March 2010 03:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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If President Monson had presided over other similar funerals, it wouldn't be on the news.  We don't know that he hasn't done dozens of similar acts of support and compassion.
 
I know that when my younger sister suffered a very painful event, President Monson (then an apostle) spoke on the phone twice with my mother, offering welcome support and critical information, both of which made a positive difference in how my sister responded.  It never made the news.
 
I don't believe that Monson is an actual prophet, but I do believe that he's probably doing his best to help other people.  He's probably a lot like most of us that way.
 
I also think in this case there are PR overtones, which Mormons call "doing missionary work."  It's what they do.  Sometimes it is pretty annoying.
 
I feel so sorry for the family and for the young man who probably went through hell before he finally decided that he couldn't take it anymore.  In my mind, these are more victims of addiction, a disorder that doesn't spare any group of people.
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 04:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Since I've posted this I've been trying to talk myself down, but I keep getting agitated.  I think - well who cares as long as it was a comfort to his family.  And yet, is that how I, myself or you want to go out?  All Mormoned up to make our families feel better?  Having some Bishop say how we were led astray and certainly not happy but it's all going to be better now?
 
And then I think about the suggestion that he might have been gay.  I know the difference between speculation and fact, I am not stating his sexuality as fact.  However, there has been speculation and a certain theme to his suffering that does suggest he might have been gay.
 
In that case - the prophet is culpable in his death!  The church has been awful to the gay community in the past few years.  I can't imagine the insult of somebody doing something to greatly hurt me, perhaps to the point of suicide, and then having that someone preside at my funeral!
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 04:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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The Holy Ghost® is bearing witness to me as my boosm is a burning that it has something to do with this picture and teaser appearing on countless Yahoo, AOL, etc. etc. home pages across the world today.  You can't buy this kind of publicity (stunt) at Marie's ultimate expense though.  Maybe he was/is just a fan of Dancing With the Stars since he looks pretty happy.  Maybe he is telling her that her son is in a much better place right now. 
 
 
 
Marie & Monson 
Utah funeral service held for Marie Osmond's son
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Thomas Monson, left, comforts singer Marie Osmond before a graveside service after the funeral of her son Michael Bryan in Provo, Utah on Monday, March 8, 2010. (AP Photo/George Frey)
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Posted: 09 March 2010 04:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet:
Since I've posted this I've been trying to talk myself down, but I keep getting agitated.  I think - well who cares as long as it was a comfort to his family.  And yet, is that how I, myself or you want to go out?  All Mormoned up to make our families feel better?  Having some Bishop say how we were led astray and certainly not happy but it's all going to be better now?
 
And then I think about the suggestion that he might have been gay.  I know the difference between speculation and fact, I am not stating his sexuality as fact.  However, there has been speculation and a certain theme to his suffering that does suggest he might have been gay.
 
In that case - the prophet is culpable in his death!  The church has been awful to the gay community in the past few years.  I can't imagine the insult of somebody doing something to greatly hurt me, perhaps to the point of suicide, and then having that someone preside at my funeral!
 
 
 
 MishMagnet,
 
I really get where you are coming from.  Monsoon's role in the funeral is suspect to me given the church's stance on suicide alone.
 
Deb 

   


Posted: 09 March 2010 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet, I think I understand your point better now.  I was missing the element of possible church culpability in the factors leading to his suicide.  I apologize if I misunderstood you earlier.
 
It's such a painful thing to witness from this perspective outside the church: seeing how people turn to same beliefs and social patterns that might have contributed to the young man's death.
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 05:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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Monson's laughing in that photo.
 
 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 05:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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geogdeb:
MishMagnet:
Since I've posted this I've been trying to talk myself down, but I keep getting agitated.  I think - well who cares as long as it was a comfort to his family.  And yet, is that how I, myself or you want to go out?  All Mormoned up to make our families feel better?  Having some Bishop say how we were led astray and certainly not happy but it's all going to be better now?
 
And then I think about the suggestion that he might have been gay.  I know the difference between speculation and fact, I am not stating his sexuality as fact.  However, there has been speculation and a certain theme to his suffering that does suggest he might have been gay.
 
In that case - the prophet is culpable in his death!  The church has been awful to the gay community in the past few years.  I can't imagine the insult of somebody doing something to greatly hurt me, perhaps to the point of suicide, and then having that someone preside at my funeral!
 
 
 
 MishMagnet,
 
I really get where you are coming from.  Monsoon's role in the funeral is suspect to me given the church's stance on suicide alone.
 
Deb
 
 I just realized that I misspelled Monson- or did I????  Freudian slip?


   


Posted: 09 March 2010 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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I agree Mish. The church is her community and any support they give her is probably a good thing. But the Prophet/GA involvement in the funeral does feel like PR. Maybe he was a close personal friend. That would make his attendance more meaningful. 

   


Posted: 09 March 2010 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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rod holland:
I agree Mish. The church is her community and any support they give her is probably a good thing. But the Prophet/GA involvement in the funeral does feel like PR. Maybe he was a close personal friend. That would make his attendance more meaningful.
 
KSL said he is a personal friend. If that is true, I have no problem. If the church used it as a PR moment, that is another matter although the family must have consented.
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Posted: 09 March 2010 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
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This is just my opinion so don't pay too much attention. Of course he would go to this funeral, its the Osmond's. They have a lot of money and are probably large contributors to the TSCC besides being famous mormons. I also find him being at this particular funeral suspect because of the TSCC's stance on suicide. This comment he made doesn't add up to me either, "He told them everything they loved about Michael will continue, only his spirit has returned home. " I was always taught that in the TSCC suicide is unforgivable so have they changed that? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this. 

   


Posted: 09 March 2010 05:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
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happymom:
This is just my opinion so don't pay too much attention. Of course he would go to this funeral, its the Osmond's. They have a lot of money and are probably large contributors to the TSCC besides being famous mormons. I also find him being at this particular funeral suspect because of the TSCC's stance on suicide. This comment he made doesn't add up to me either, "He told them everything they loved about Michael will continue, only his spirit has returned home. " I was always taught that in the TSCC suicide is unforgivable so have they changed that? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this.
 
Suicide was never "unforgivable" in LDS theology, as far as I know, although it has gone through an evolution.  The only unforgivable sin is becoming a son of perdition, of which there is officially only one in all of human history, Cain.
 
Suicide, in their doctrine, is murder of self.  As an act of murder, it falls under the LDS history of murder doctrine, i.e. blood atonement, etc.  As of now though, it kind of falls like this. 
 
If you commit suicide, you are shedding innocent blood, your own.  Therefore, like any murder, you go to spirit prison after you are dead and you suffer for your sin in a temporary condition called hell.  When that is complete, you go to the kingdom of glory where all murderers go -- the telestial kingdom.
 
In very modern times, although not official doctrine, it is "communicated" that if someone is mentally ill and therefore "not accountable for for actions" then there is a possibility of the "normal" mortal redemption.  His history of severe depression certainly qualifies as "mental illness."  But, by the cut and dry of Mormon doctrine, he is condemned.  (Unless an Osmond has had their calling and election made sure, but that another speculative area).
 
So what Monson said in his quote was true from his POV.  Everything about Michael does continue, good and bad, and he will return home in some way.


   


Posted: 09 March 2010 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
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Again, we have to remember LDS or not, people commit suicide.  Suicide, addiction, sexual orientation know no bounds.  And know one thing, no matter how you feel about this from a religious standpoint, we are all saved in the blood of Jesus Christ.  There is a place in Heaven for Marie's son.  I don't think one should be judged by how he/she leaves this world and enters into Eternity.  The Lord has loved him forever and will continue to do so.  Some of us have great coping skills and life is good; others don't have ANY coping skills and turn to whatever makes them happy that day.  Just remember one thing, I live with someone who has no coping skills, who is very depressed, has severe anxiety, and has no desire to do much of anything - you all don't know what I have to live with (maybe you do) but I think there's a saying out there that goes "people who live in glass temples shouldn't throw stones".
 
Again, being that Pres. Monson is a personal friend of the family, it would be his right to be there in whatever capacity he chose, friend or prophet.  This is not for any of us to choose -
Marie lost her child - leave it alone.


   


Posted: 09 March 2010 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]   

   
 
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I think many of us on the Post-mo side of life automatically assume these guys have ulterior motives.  Sometimes we're right, but sometimes we really ARE wrong.  Wiki says Monson was called as an apostle in 1963, right about the time the Osmonds were starting to receive national attention (Andy Williams show, 1962).  Being a leader in a small church that suddenly had this national novelty act on its hands probably DOES mean that Monson has known Marie since she was in diapers.  If that is the case, then Monson's being there is entirely appropriate, and as the highest-ranking priesthood holder in attendance, he automatically presides.  In fact, given Marie's opposition to Prop 8 and open support of her gay daughter, I think it probably does signify a strong family friendship.  Was it a PR opportunity?  If it was, I think it was probably incidental.
re: suicide, I don't remember being taught that it was unforgivable or anything like that.  Serious, yes, obviously, but I specifically remember being taught by an otherwise insanely strident seminary teacher that suicide was a course of action that no 'sane' person would follow, and that God would account for that mental state in his judgement.
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Posted: 09 March 2010 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]   

   
 
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Osmonds probably helped build the City Center...as large "investors in tithing." As such, Monson needed to be there...keeping the "money rolling in" by telling Marie whatever she wanted to hear.
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Posted: 09 March 2010 06:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]   

   
 
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My FIL, who is an exmo (though I did't actually know he was an exmo at all until I had known him for several years) knew Monson back in the day.  From how FIL describes him, he's a pretty decent guy.  They met when FIL would visit people from his church (Lutheran) and Monson would visit people in the hospital or something like that.
I have a letter that Monson wrote to my husband's grandparents thanking them for their participation in a scandinavian festival.  He even mentions my husband in the letter.  (DH's grandparents were always bragging him up to whomever would listen.)
 
I'm guessing this has more to do with PR than anything.  If he did kill himself because he was gay (and I don't know if there's any truth to that), then the church definitely has dirty hands in the matter.  If it had been my son, I wouldn't want anybody in the church near his corpse.  But what has happened to the Osmand family is sad and I don't have the heart to be snarky about it.  It's bad enough to have to grieve something like this.  Grieving it in the public eye only makes it worse.
 
I knew a girl a few years back whose father was a bishop at the time he committed suicide.  My mom said the funeral was nice and nobody talked down about it.
 
I think that people are coming around- even Mormons- and realizing that mental illness is a disease like many others.  You have to be pretty far gone to kill yourself.  Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  Personally speaking, I've had a bad few days.  I've had a lot of things piling up.  I've had my moments recently where I've really just wished for death.  But I know that I'm going to come out of it eventually.  And I wouldn't leave my kids. 
 
I don't know why some people aren't able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  But I think when you have no perspective, that's an illness.  And I think members of the church are becoming more enlightened about it.  Too slowly, of course, as is with everything.  But still making progress. 
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Posted: 09 March 2010 07:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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CadillacCTS:
Again, we have to remember LDS or not, people commit suicide.  Suicide, addiction, sexual orientation know no bounds.  And know one thing, no matter how you feel about this from a religious standpoint, we are all saved in the blood of Jesus Christ.  There is a place in Heaven for Marie's son.  I don't think one should be judged by how he/she leaves this world and enters into Eternity.  The Lord has loved him forever and will continue to do so.  Some of us have great coping skills and life is good; others don't have ANY coping skills and turn to whatever makes them happy that day.  Just remember one thing, I live with someone who has no coping skills, who is very depressed, has severe anxiety, and has no desire to do much of anything - you all don't know what I have to live with (maybe you do) but I think there's a saying out there that goes "people who live in glass temples shouldn't throw stones".
 
Again, being that Pres. Monson is a personal friend of the family, it would be his right to be there in whatever capacity he chose, friend or prophet.  This is not for any of us to choose -
Marie lost her child - leave it alone. 
 
I'm sorry to hear about whatever it is you may be going through personally. I'm sure it must be very difficult. And I'm sending you good thoughts and prayers.
 
I don't think anyone here is judging Marie's son. On the contrary, I think folks here would have more sympathy for his plight than most. And also for Marie on the loss of her son and the questions that must be going on in her head right now and the intense sorrow she's feeling.
 
However, we can and do judge mormonism, including it's leaders. We discuss it in great detail because we can and should. And because we've earned the right to do that for all the years we wasted in it, and all the mind-screwing it did with our lives. That's why we're here.
 
So perhaps you could have some patience with us too.
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Posted: 09 March 2010 07:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet:
I have many questions.  First question - why? 
 
 
I had the same exact reaction when it was announced on the evening news that Monson presided at the funeral.
 
I turned to my TBM wife and asked.."why would he do that"?  But in my heart I knew WHY.  The Osmonds are the only non-GA Mormon royalty. All Mormon's are equal...but some are more equal than others. 
 
By rubbing shoulders with the Osmond family, Monson can not only get his own ego stroked, but can bolster his own image among Mormon faithful at the same time.
 
Personally I think that it is a crock of shit that Monson would attend this funeral...I found it very offensive...and very self serving.  I personally like and have respect for the Osmond family and have sympathy for them at this time, but Monson's participation in this tragedy is just him wanting to share in the media spot light of the Osmond's tragedy...there is no other reason for him to attend other than self serving reasons.
 
NOTE:  He doesn't attend the funerals of other Mormon suicide victims.  Point Made 
 
 
I should add that I met Marie once in my TBM life.  My family and I were eating at the same restaraunt that Marie and her then husband were dining at.  One of my dinner guests insisted on getting her autograph and a picture.  I pleaded not to bother her but they were from out of town and insisted.  So I embarrassingly approuched her, she was nothing but gracious, extremely friendly and giving to both my family and my guests.  She was the one who suggested they have their pictures taken with her.  She was a very classy lady.  I am so very sorry for her terrible loss.
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Posted: 09 March 2010 07:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]   

   
 
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I have a couple of thoughts about this.
 
I am not sure that this was a PR move - I tend to believe it was not.
 
If Monson knew the family and attended the services he would have automatically presided there if it was being conducted by the LDS church.
 
As the executive priesthood office holder in the LDS church, Monson automatically presides at any and all LDS meetings he attends.  And according to LDS policy, the presiding authority sits on the stand and has ultimate authority to direct the meeting.
 
So I think this may be more of a case of Monson wanting to show respect to the Osmond family and automatically presiding because of his LDS position.
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Posted: 09 March 2010 07:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]   

   
 
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From the Provo Daily Herald: 
 
"...About 450 mourners attended Monday's services at a chapel near the Provo temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including church President Thomas S. Monson, who offered words of comfort to the family..."

I don't know the capacity in which Monson served at the funeral, but my vote is to give him and the Osmond Family a pass on this one.  The family especially. 
 
It's been a tough run for Marie.  I feel bad for her, she's had to walk some fine lines to remain in good stead with the church and her family...
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Posted: 09 March 2010 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]   

   
 
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i just HAVE to chime in here.
 
i know TWO of the younger osmonds PERSONALLY-- enough to have their numbers in my phone, and on facebook, etc.
 
we get together every saturday and hang out and have LOADS of fun!  they are GREAT guys!
 
i was talking with them about the funeral.  i own a flower shop here in provo, and of course, had people calling about it.
 
i called around and the funeral home handling it said they could give me "no information" which, of COURSE, means they HAD the funeral.  but, i couldn't deliver anything because i had "no information"
 
as people called, i also told them, we have NO INFORMATION.
 
well, on saturday, when one of my osmond friends came to chill with us, i asked him about the funeral, sent my condolences, etc.
 
he said, they didn't know this "cousin" very well.  they had only met him two or three times. every time they'd go to maries house, he wasn't there, or was busy.
 
anyway, he mentioned that monson was coming to the funeral. i asked, "oh? why?" because i generally was curious as to why the PROPHET would come to a funeral for someone famous.
 
his response:  because he has known the osmond's for YEARS and monson was a good family friend to them.  
 
so, i'm taking it at his word.  so, in defense of the MORmONS, i'm sticking with this, that i HEARD WITH MY OWN EARS FROM AN OSMOND.
 
nice people!  good friends of mine, and i wish them solice in their time of sorrow.
 
as much as i dislike the mormon church, i think monson came to be genuinely interested in condolencing with the family.
 
yeah, they probably give a TON of their money to the morg...fine.  but i dont think that was the motivator in this appearance.


   


Posted: 10 March 2010 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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YesIAmAPyr:
 
From the Provo Daily Herald: 
 
"...About 450 mourners attended Monday's services at a chapel near the Provo temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including church President Thomas S. Monson, who offered words of comfort to the family..."

I don't know the capacity in which Monson served at the funeral, but my vote is to give him and the Osmond Family a pass on this one.  The family especially. 
 
It's been a tough run for Marie.  I feel bad for her, she's had to walk some fine lines to remain in good stead with the church and her family...
 
 
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Posted: 10 March 2010 04:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]   

   
 
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poodledoodledude:
his response:  because he has known the osmond's for YEARS and monson was a good family friend to them.  
 
I think that is all fine and good that a family friend would attend the funeral.  I have no problem with that regardless of anyone's celebrity status.  The head scratcher for me was why was Monson’s attendance the big news headline and photo making the AP news wire rather than say Donny or some other close friend, surviving children, or other family member’s picture splashed across my home page well outside of Zion’s warm fuzzy testimony building local news media area.  For example, it’s similar to the most important news worthy attendee at  John Travolta’s son Jett’s funeral being David Miscavige and most people thinking – who is President David Miscavige and why is he in the AP news headline and photo rather than family.  Most likely to show Scientology is the core of their strength in difficult times and in case anyone is interested in Scientology and would like to know more. 
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Posted: 10 March 2010 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]   

   
 
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I spoke with a friend in Palm Springs this evening. He brought up the sad demise of Marie Osmond's son. I mentioned the president of the LDS church attended the service. There was sudden silence and then he said, "But don't Mormons believe that homosexuals are going to Hell? Why would their president be there? It opened a great dialogue... on several issues.
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Posted: 10 March 2010 05:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]   

   
 
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Entertainment Tonight did a bunch of clips of the funeral, balloons and Mary Hart starting to tear up about Donny trying to sing, and not being able to finish. No Monson shown....
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Posted: 10 March 2010 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]   

   
 
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I feel like a mushroom - I live in a cage and get fed bullshit.... I didn't even know of the death until now Red
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Posted: 10 March 2010 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]   

   
 
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  http://feeds.people.com/~r/people/headlines/~3/9owiN_xQUt0/0,,20350026,00.html Back to work.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


            
 
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Roseanne slams Mormon church, says Marie’s son was gay  
Posted: 06 March 2010 03:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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nic-ho
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  http://roseanneworld.com/blog/
 
Here are some excerpts... 
 
"marie osmonds poor gay son killed himself
because he had been told how wrong and how sick he was every day of his life by his church and the people in it. Calling that "depression" is a lie!
 
 
How sickening. I know so many mormon kids who were gay and committed suicide, and I just cannot and will not stay quiet in order to not offend bigots anymore. It is all so terribly depressing.
Marie please don't talk about how your faith in your church has helped you get through this one!
 
 
G-d is trying to use you for something good and this is your opportunity! Your church is wrong and on the wrong wrong wrong side of things! Get as vocal about that as you are about your diet. G-d bless you too, Marie. "
 
 
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Posted: 06 March 2010 03:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Ugh. Sorry I repeated a story!
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Posted: 06 March 2010 09:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
hartlyn
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Doesn't she have a daughter who's lesbian and "out"?  Roseanne could be shoveling BS; Marie seemed okay with her daughter's sexual orientation.  Then again, maybe her son's sexuality was swept under the rug because having two gay children begins to reflect on your parenting skills?
 
Dunno.  Just throwing it out there and naming possibilities.
 
Maybe Roseanne hasn't had a headline in awhile.
 
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Posted: 06 March 2010 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Curious NeverMo
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Marie does have a gay daughter and in the Prop H8 campaign she was vocal in defending her daughter's right to be herself and in opposing the church's involvement.
 
I don't know all the circumstances and I doubt Roseanne does either. 
 
Marie had children from 2 fathers and she had adopted children.  I don't that it's clear that her son was gay -- perhaps he was and perhaps he wasn't.  Maybe it was his father who created the problem -- he and his father were estranged.  Maybe the fact that a male child is supposed to hold the priesthood is what made Michael's being gay more offensive in some way or weighed more heavily on him.  I almost never hear lesbianism acknowledged when Mormons discuss the issues of being gay as though it's an exclusively male behavior.  Maybe that makes the impact of being gay and female less burdensome.  Or maybe the daughter had freed herself of the censure of the church in a way the son couldn't.  We'll probably never know.
 
Not defending Roseanne.  Those were offensive comments she should have kept to herself whatever her personal history growing up Jewish in SLC.   Just affirming that Marie Osmond was fearless in defending her gay daughter. 


   


Posted: 07 March 2010 02:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Carter
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I did try and see if he was gay.  I'm not sure what to trust and what not to.  I know that as a teenager it was difficult for me.  There were times that I was pretty low... like the time I prayed to god to kill me if I ever masturbated again.  However, I never came close to suicide because I thought that killing myself would only cause me to go to the telestial kingdom, which is where I would be going because I was gay :S
 
I did just find out that a kid in my town growing up who killed himself about five years ago was gay.  I thought that would be the case, but now I know for sure.
 
I really hate the church for how it hurts the marginalized!


   


Posted: 07 March 2010 03:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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I really doubt that Roseanne Barr has any inside in formation on why Michael Blosil killed himself or what his sexual orientation was. Even if she did, this is not the time to make statements like that. She could have made her statement about the Morg's treatment of gays without bringing a dead boy into the mix. Vey poor taste and just about what I would expect of Roseanne.If he was gay and chose not to make it public, it is not her place to out him. I  he wasn't, then she is no better than a common gossip.
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Posted: 07 March 2010 03:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Rosanne can be brash and suffers from various mental disorders...but she knows the church and she knows things they try and keep secret in Hollywood and environs. She speaks up...when she knows she's going to catch it. Sometimes, the truth will out.
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Posted: 07 March 2010 03:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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And sometimes she is just obnoxious like when she sang the national anthem off key at a ball game while scrathing her privates. At any rate, I doubt she travels in the same circles as the Osmonds a nd I think anything she may have heard is just gossip. Even if she was sure, it isn't her place to out someone else.I'm not arguing with her speaking out about the church and gays, but I object to her making Michael Blosil her poster boy. I think it is wrong even if he was gay which hasn't been confirmed.
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Posted: 07 March 2010 03:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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And who will stand up for him, if it is true? Perhaps Rosanne may have thought he was being buried and forgotten. Marie climbing back on the boards in Vegas...very quickly. She may have been reacting to that. Not sure. Rosanne reminds me of many autistic/asbergers folks who blurt out things they know, without considering what they are saying...
 
http://www.hollywoodlife.com/2010/03/04/marie-osmond-son-suicide/
 
 
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Posted: 07 March 2010 03:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Tessa:
And who will stand up for him, if it is true? Perhaps Rosanne may have thought he was being buried and forgotten. Marie climbing back on the boards in Vegas...very quickly. She may have been reacting to that. Not sure. Rosanne reminds me of many autistic/asbergers folks who blurt out things they know, without considering what they are saying...
I doubt she "knows" anything. The Osmonds were open about Jessica. If Michael was gay, and I haven't heard it anywhere else, he chose to keep it secret and it is none of Roseanne's business. She could have made her point very well without bringing him into it.
 
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Posted: 07 March 2010 03:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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I doubt she "knows" anything.
She's closer to the L.A. scene then many of us. She may or may not "know" but she's stuck her neck out there....with the Prop 8 stuff....she's reacting like many here to it's cruelty.
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Marie Osmond’s son commits suicide  
Posted: 27 February 2010 11:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
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I haven't seen this posted yet.   Horribly sad & tragic...
 
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews/news/marie-osmonds-son-commits-suicide-report-2010272
 
 


   


Posted: 27 February 2010 11:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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This is very sad. 
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Posted: 27 February 2010 11:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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That's very sad.
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Posted: 27 February 2010 11:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I don't want to seem cliche, but is there any information available that would indicate he was gay? It seems like if he suffered depression his whole life and was mormon and killed himself in the beginning of adulthood, that sexual orientation may have played a role. By no means am I saying that being gay and suicidal are related, but being Mormon, Gay and Suicidal do seem to run together sometimes. Whatever his motives, poor kid, poor family. I feel for them.
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“The proselytizing fanatic strengthens his own faith by converting others. The creed whose legitimacy is most easily challenged is likely to develop the strongest proselytizing impulse. It is also plausible that those movements with the greatest inner contradiction between profession and practice—that is to say with a strong feeling of guilt—are likely to be the most fervent in imposing their faith on others.”
—Eric Hoffer


   


Posted: 27 February 2010 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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I saw this also, but didn't know how to link it.  I knew someone smart, and talented would come along and do it
 
When I saw this report on line this morning I immediately said, "Here is another example of the 'Church' grinding down a kid, and making them feel like they will never be good enough!"
 
My son (who has not been an active member of the church for twelve years) said, "Mom...you can't say that.  You have no idea why this kid jumped to his death.  Maybe the Church had nothing to do with it."
 
Again, wisdom out of the mouths of my babes.
 
He is right.  I have no right to make any kind of a judgement about Marie Osmond's son.
 
As a mother I can imagine the emotional, and physical, pain that Ms. Osmond must be in today.
 
 As a community of loving, caring, compassionate people who post here, I know that many you guys join me in sending the Osmond family our sympathy for their loss.
 
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Posted: 27 February 2010 11:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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She has openly supported her lesbian daughter.  He might have been gay, but there are so many other pressures put on kids today as well, especially kids of celebrities and especially kids raised in the church.
 
So sad.  It seem like she's always being hit with something.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Posted: 27 February 2010 11:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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new.expositor:
I don't want to seem cliche, but is there any information available that would indicate he was gay? It seems like if he suffered depression his whole life and was mormon and killed himself in the beginning of adulthood, that sexual orientation may have played a role. By no means am I saying that being gay and suicidal are related, but being Mormon, Gay and Suicidal do seem to run together sometimes. Whatever his motives, poor kid, poor family. I feel for them.
 
 I wondered the same thing until I found this other article link over on the NOM forum. This article talked about some kind of rehab. 
 
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20347551,00.html
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Posted: 27 February 2010 11:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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sulki:
new.expositor:
I don't want to seem cliche, but is there any information available that would indicate he was gay? It seems like if he suffered depression his whole life and was mormon and killed himself in the beginning of adulthood, that sexual orientation may have played a role. By no means am I saying that being gay and suicidal are related, but being Mormon, Gay and Suicidal do seem to run together sometimes. Whatever his motives, poor kid, poor family. I feel for them.
 
 I wondered the same thing until I found this other article link over on the NOM forum. This article talked about some kind of rehab.  
 
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20347551,00.html 
 
 Thanks, it looks like whatever it was, it was going on for some time now.  I wish I had a 3.9 GPA in high school, sucks, looks like he had lots of potential.
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—Eric Hoffer


   


Posted: 27 February 2010 11:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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New Expositor, I totally agree with your theory. I have a gay cousin who just came out to us and I'm the only one in my entire extended family that still treats him like a human (my husband and children are 100% supportive of his lifestyle). In any event, he told me that he contemplated suicide MANY times because death seemed like a huge improvement over being a gay man in the LDS church. My sister's stake president's son was gay and killed himself in high school (about 8 years ago). His father, the SP, said (AT THE FUNERAL no less) that he received "a witness" that his son was better off dead than living a life of sin. My sister heard him say it. I think this sort of thing is much more prevalent in the LDS church than the leaders would ever let on. So very Christlike.
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Posted: 28 February 2010 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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My heart really goes out to Marie and their whole family.  I was very sad to hear this news.  I've always liked Marie Osmond so much.  Her book on post-partum depression helped me out a great deal when I was a new mother. 
 
I lost a few High School classmates to suicide.  I think of them several times per year still.  Obviously they were in a tremendous amount of pain, but you can't help but realize that things would have worked out within a few years.  16 is way too young to give up on life.  Although I also remember being 16 and how it felt like adulthood was so far away it would never be real. 
 
 
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Posted: 28 February 2010 12:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet:
My heart really goes out to Marie and their whole family.  I was very sad to hear this news.  I've always liked Marie Osmond so much.  Her book on post-partum depression helped me out a great deal when I was a new mother. 
 
I lost a few High School classmates to suicide.  I think of them several times per year still.  Obviously they were in a tremendous amount of pain, but you can't help but realize that things would have worked out within a few years.  16 is way too young to give up on life.  Although I also remember being 16 and how it felt like adulthood was so far away it would never be real. 
 
 
I had a 14 year old student who killed himself. Kids that age just don't have the perspective to realize that things work out and problems can be solved. I read that he had suffered depression all of his life. He had also been in rehap. A lot of victims of depression use drugs and alcohol to self medicate. It also seems depression runs in the family. Very sad.
 
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Posted: 28 February 2010 12:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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I&#;m Free!:
... My sister's stake president's son was gay and killed himself in high school (about 8 years ago). His father, the SP, said (AT THE FUNERAL no less) that he received "a witness" that his son was better off dead than living a life of sin. My sister heard him say it. I think this sort of thing is much more prevalent in the LDS church than the leaders would ever let on. So very Christlike.
 
 Jebezus. You can feel the conditional love there. I could not imagine being in that family and having to listen to someone say something like that about a family member. I would have thrown something at him.
 
If a church higher up had been there, they would have made him a GA on the spot.
 


   


Posted: 28 February 2010 01:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Oh, the "If only...."s.
I don't know that the church played any roles in his depression, suicide, or if his sexual orientation may played a part either. But, I can pretty much assume that the church surely did not help his situation.
Walter Koenig had it right, and I hope that more people hear/read his message.
 
Depressed people, you are NOT alone. There are people who care. REALLY. To the families that go through the after math of suicide, there are people who mourn with you. HONESTLY.
 
The Osmond's seem to be "all together" but there have been many struggles that they've gone through over the years. Depression is something that tends to run in families, and I know that Marie was on that cliff's edge at one point in life (PPD), so for her this may be a double edged sword, I'm pretty sure.
 
I just wish that the church wouldn't "hush up" suicide. I really wish there were more opportunities provided by all religions to help people learn the warning signs of depression, to help the people dealing with depression have connections to the proper avenues to get proper help for their depression. But, I find that religions as a whole want people to believe that it is sin that is causing their depression, and if they would "just turn their life over to God", the depression would go away. I HATE that about religion.
 
 
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Posted: 28 February 2010 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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AZEvilSingleGuy:
I&#;m Free!:
... My sister's stake president's son was gay and killed himself in high school (about 8 years ago). His father, the SP, said (AT THE FUNERAL no less) that he received "a witness" that his son was better off dead than living a life of sin. My sister heard him say it. I think this sort of thing is much more prevalent in the LDS church than the leaders would ever let on. So very Christlike.
 
 Jebezus. You can feel the conditional love there. I could not imagine being in that family and having to listen to someone say something like that about a family member. I would have thrown something at him.
 
If a church higher up had been there, they would have made him a GA on the spot.
 
 
As angry as that would make me, the problem is that his father is a "religious" man, and is toeing the corporate line. And, the other problem is, that because he openly made that statement, outsiders can come to a better understanding of WHY his son felt he had no other choice, but to end his own life.
 
I came from a family that thought nothing of saying stuff like that. It supposedly was said to help keep us strong and not falter. When you are raised in a religion whose dogma is so clear, and your parents believe it with all their heart, mind and soul, you do start to feel like they may be right about it all.
 
But, in learning how the Osmond's have handled other near death attempts, Marie's own included, I am pretty sure that the Osmonds would not allow such sentiment to be espoused. They have done a lot of study and research into depression. They also show support for their lesbian member. I applaud many things the Osmonds do to help educate the rest of us. (But, I admit to being a little green with envy that they seem to "have it all")
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Posted: 28 February 2010 01:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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sulki:
new.expositor:
I don't want to seem cliche, but is there any information available that would indicate he was gay? It seems like if he suffered depression his whole life and was mormon and killed himself in the beginning of adulthood, that sexual orientation may have played a role. By no means am I saying that being gay and suicidal are related, but being Mormon, Gay and Suicidal do seem to run together sometimes. Whatever his motives, poor kid, poor family. I feel for them.
 I wondered the same thing until I found this other article link over on the NOM forum. This article talked about some kind of rehab.  
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20347551,00.html 
 
When I saw the title of this thread, my immediate [knee-jerk... emphasis on "jerk"] thought was, "Oh, Gawd!!  TSCC got another one!"
 
I know that's shabby; I've never walked around in Michael Blosil's head to know what kind of pressure(s) he might have been under.
 
BUT: From what you folks've told me about the conformity and perfection forced upon the members of the morg, it's an understanable position.  It's also understandable that the "some kind of rehab" in the People Magazine article could have been "ex-gay" therapy.  Yes, Marie has been supportive of her lesbian daughter... but let's face it, it's different with sons.  Maybe his dad pushed him to get "fixed."
 
This is from one of my favorite "slash fiction" stories I've read on the 'net:
"Merc let loose with a full throated laugh and gave Bobby a pitying look. He said, 'You’re an only child… Mum says parents with their first child are like hens with one chick, they fuss and scratch, but they just make the chick nervous. Tyr was only subjected to her full attention 'til she dropped the twins. By the time you have three or four kids… its like, "just let them eat the dirt, okay? They're not bothering anyone and it won't hurt them." In other words… parents with lots of kids, focus on the big picture, murder, stealing, lying – the little stuff like what you wear or calling your brother a fag, she figures we'll work our on our own.'"
I reiterate:  "Just let them eat the dirt, okay?..."  Until parents of any stripe decide their children DON'T need "fixing," crap like this suicide will continue.
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Posted: 28 February 2010 01:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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bradspencer74
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I&#;m Free!:
New Expositor, I totally agree with your theory. I have a gay cousin who just came out to us and I'm the only one in my entire extended family that still treats him like a human (my husband and children are 100% supportive of his lifestyle). In any event, he told me that he contemplated suicide MANY times because death seemed like a huge improvement over being a gay man in the LDS church. My sister's stake president's son was gay and killed himself in high school (about 8 years ago). His father, the SP, said (AT THE FUNERAL no less) that he received "a witness" that his son was better off dead than living a life of sin. My sister heard him say it. I think this sort of thing is much more prevalent in the LDS church than the leaders would ever let on. So very Christlike.
 
What a tragedy.
 
I know, should that have been the case, what it feels like, AND how close you can come to doing what this young man did.  I know what it means for a family to say something at least similar to what this SP said.  I would wish that feeling in no one, not even the bastards in the LDS church who say it.   If they only understood it the way LGBT Mormons do, it might be enough to change them.


   


Posted: 28 February 2010 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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They've put their Las Vegas show on hiatus.....
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Posted: 28 February 2010 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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aislin22
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My brother was the same age when he shot himself in our house, in the middle of the night, on mother's day, because he had the delusional idea that my mom waking up and finding him dead would be the best gift he could give her. My brother had just broken up with his girlfriend at the time, and my parents found out he was having sex with her. They were mortified. I will never forget that night for as long as I live. I don't know what the reason behind her son committing suicide, but I know the stronghold TSCC has on young adults. what a tragedy. I feel for her. I don't know how my brother survived, but he did. I wish Marie was so lucky to still have her son. Peace be with her. 

   


Posted: 28 February 2010 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
ll
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bradspencer:
I&#;m Free!:
New Expositor, I totally agree with your theory. I have a gay cousin who just came out to us and I'm the only one in my entire extended family that still treats him like a human (my husband and children are 100% supportive of his lifestyle). In any event, he told me that he contemplated suicide MANY times because death seemed like a huge improvement over being a gay man in the LDS church. My sister's stake president's son was gay and killed himself in high school (about 8 years ago). His father, the SP, said (AT THE FUNERAL no less) that he received "a witness" that his son was better off dead than living a life of sin. My sister heard him say it. I think this sort of thing is much more prevalent in the LDS church than the leaders would ever let on. So very Christlike.
 
What a tragedy. 
 
I know, should that have been the case, what it feels like, AND how close you can come to doing what this young man did.  I know what it means for a family to say something at least similar to what this SP said.  I would wish that feeling in no one, not even the bastards in the LDS church who say it.   If they only understood it the way LGBT Mormons do, it might be enough to change them.
 
Brad, I am so sorry that your family treated you with such coldness. This is such a tragedy and a shockingly callous thing to say. Instead of just taking a moment to be sad, the attitude drove the SP's son to such shame and then to suicide, then his own father can't even just feel sad at the loss.
 
I've been thinking of this since the thread started, and all I can feel is sad. This should be classified as abuse worse than beating or neglecting children. It is so unfortunate that social services don't get involved in situations like that.
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Posted: 09 February 2010 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
CDN Mike
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While poking around tonight I came across the church's new website for the youth...here are some of the highlights
 
A daily message from the leaders:  (note the crazy smile on Monson's face almost deranged)
 
https://beta.lds.org/youth/for-youth-today?locale=eng
 
Some great professionally done movies (the no cussing club is my favorite because I was trying to guess how many wedgies or swirlies the poor kid has gotten/will get when his friends see this)
 
https://beta.lds.org/youth/from-every-nation?locale=eng
 
Don't forget the sexual purity part... (no guilt there)
 
Before marriage, do not do anything to arouse the powerful emotions that must be expressed only in marriage. Do not participate in passionate kissing, lie on top of another person, or touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body, with or without clothing. Do not allow anyone to do that with you. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=1907be335dc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD
 
and last of all more movies, which highlight how multicultural the church has become...
 
https://beta.lds.org/youth/mormon-messages?locale=eng
 
Ok I am going to stop now because this new site is kind of making me ill...
 


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Dahli-mama
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Ok, that picture of Monson is just ripe for some parody. He looks like he's just fluffed a solid one and is so pleased with himself and the other guys are sniggering and about to go into fits of laughter. Eyring is looking past Uchtdorf at Packer hoping he can point his finger and say, "He who smelt it dealt it!".


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 04:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
CDN Mike
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Dahli-mama:
 
 
Ok, that picture of Monson is just ripe for some parody. He looks like he's just fluffed a solid one and is so pleased with himself and the other guys are sniggering and about to go into fits of laughter. Eyring is looking past Uchtdorf at Packer hoping he can point his finger and say, "He who smelt it dealt it!".
 
Bwahahaha...pull my finger.....


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 04:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
martyrdumb
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Dahli-mama:
 
 
Ok, that picture of Monson is just ripe for some parody. He looks like he's just fluffed a solid one and is so pleased with himself and the other guys are sniggering and about to go into fits of laughter. Eyring is looking past Uchtdorf at Packer hoping he can point his finger and say, "He who smelt it dealt it!".
 
 Either that or someone had just aroused his "powerful emotions" or touched his "private, sacred parts."
 
 
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Posted: 09 February 2010 04:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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This website bypasses parents.....once again. Creepy.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 04:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Lloyd Dobler
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Pulled this from the site:
 
Christian Courage
By Elder Robert D. Hales
“Some people mistakenly think responses such as silence, meekness, forgiveness, and bearing humble testimony are passive or weak. But to ‘love [our] enemies, bless them that curse [us], do good to them that hate [us], and pray for them which despitefully use [us], and persecute [us]’ (Matthew 5:44) takes faith, strength, and, most of all, Christian courage.
“The Prophet Joseph Smith … did not retaliate or give in to hatred. Like all true disciples of Christ, he stood with the Savior by loving others in a tolerant and compassionate way. That is Christian courage.
“When we do not retaliate—when we turn the other cheek and resist feelings of anger—we too stand with the Savior. We show forth His love, which is the only power that can subdue the adversary and answer our accusers without accusing them in return. That is not weakness. That is Christian courage.”
 
This is just pure propaganda.  It is really not based in fact.  What about when he would destroy the reputations of the women who would not marry him?  What about when he destroys Law's printing press, or the Danites or on and on.  I mean honestly, they create a site like this and I am telling you that youth know its bullshit.  It is so detached from reality or from making authentic or honest connections with teens.
 
This kind of stuff is eventually going to wind up spinning off into the atmosphere of flat out crazy.  The top 15 are clowns and the little people that create this crap for them and kiss their ass are  almost as big of clowns.  And of course they are never going to tell the big guys they look like idiots or that nobody is even looking at nonsense like this.  So everybody just keeps merrily riding along on the idiot bus and the worldwide accounts get swept every money brining untold millions into the church coffers.
 
 
 Signature
They say that I am crazy
My life wasting on this road
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And when I reach there, I’ll turn back
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200 More Miles
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Posted: 09 February 2010 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Born Free
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“The Prophet Joseph Smith … did not retaliate or give in to hatred. Like all true disciples of Christ, he stood with the Savior by loving others in a tolerant and compassionate way. That is Christian courage.
“When we do not retaliate—when we turn the other cheek and resist feelings of anger—we too stand with the Savior. We show forth His love, which is the only power that can subdue the adversary and answer our accusers without accusing them in return. That is not weakness. That is Christian courage.”
So what does the above make of Joe's Myth orchestrating the burning of a printing press that was going to expose him for the scumbag sexual predator that he was?
 I guess that makes :
 
Weak,
Lacking Christian courage,
Not standing with Christ.
By the way, doesn't this sort of drivel encourage the passive/aggressive behavior so often evident in Christians and Mormons alike?

Daryl
 
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‘Our life is the creation of our minds, and we do much of that creating in metaphor…. With the wrong metaphor we are deluded; with no metaphor we are blind. ’ Jonathan Haidt
‘and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 10:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Ozlamanite
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You know what cracks me up about that picture, non Mormons would think those guys are politicians or bankers or lawyers, or maybe businessmen (oops that's right they are) no one would guess that these guys are "men of god" who supposedly talk to the big man himself.
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Posted: 09 February 2010 12:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Gilgal
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Tessa:
This website bypasses parents.....once again. Creepy.
 
"Family...it's about time.*"
 
* Certain restrictions apply. If we can indoctrinate your kids without your input or knowledge, we certainly will.  
 


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Lloyd Dobler
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Gilgal:
Tessa:
This website bypasses parents.....once again. Creepy.
 
"Family...it's about time.*"
 
* Certain restrictions apply. If we can indoctrinate your kids without your input or knowledge, we certainly will.  
 
 
Yes.  This is the truth.  We can minimize stuff or kid ourselves but the FACT is that the church wants our kids.  They want my 13 year old to graduate HS and go to the provo orem area, get married and have kids.  The more kids before she is 25 years old the better.  This is the endgame for them.  This is the reason for all of the lessons inYW.  My wife was telling me yet again the other day how the YW program teaches girls to follow their dreams, get an education etc.  In-fact, they just did new beginnings where the theme was "follow your dreams"
 
so i got pissed.................................yeah, follow your dreams until your around 18 years old and you forget about them and go after the 1 true dream the church assigns to you and to every young woman which has been banged into your head for 6 straight years.  This dream being go get married and bring spirits to earth.  I would say 90% of our graduating YW from last year basically did this.  It's no exaggeration.  I told my wife what she is selling to these girls is an illusion.  That when push comes to shove the church, indoctrination, family pressure and guilt drives all YW toward the same life path.
 
What a coincidence, all the girls seem to have the SAME dreams.......
 
My wife did not actually argue.  I think she kinda got it a little.
 
The chruch wants our kids to work for them.  The church wants to own their minds and hearts and their wallet.  I know i sound like a wacko but is it really any other way?
 
 
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They say that I am crazy
My life wasting on this road
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200 More Miles
Cowboy Junkieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SwJM5yohb0


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
MrsNoLongerBitter
Sr. Member
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I think the music section sucks, personally. It's a far cry from the "Brand New Year" thing they did in 2009. If you are going to spread the Lawrd's love through music, at least get someone who can sing in tune and doesn't sound like a hairdryer. I'm not feeling the spirit...
 
Personally, I think the site is ridiculous. Very saccharine and a complete misrepresentation of the church as a whole. (I think it is spot on for the youth programs though; I didn't get the "boom" lowered onto me until I was an upper-classmen at the Y.)


   


Posted: 09 February 2010 06:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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It's also used by LDS Youth, to bring in new members...(come on, Billy...look at this wonderful, clean, site.)
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 10 February 2010 05:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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LessMon
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I like there page "From Every Nation" . . . here are the list of world-wide diverse locations, according to Mo-dum:
Guyana
Various Locations
California
Utah
Utah (the center of the world; and really includes Idaho and Arizona because they are different in name only); California, where the cool Mormons and Osmonds come from; Guyana, some specifically name-du-jour token third-world country; and ... everywhere else.
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Posted: 10 February 2010 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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Dahli-mama
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Church leadership consulted two maps for their world geography awareness day and determined that foreign meant "Non-Mormon".


   


Posted: 10 February 2010 05:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Dahli-mama
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 I love the "Eracists" on Mad TV. They could be the perfect LDS representation of the mindset of these silly old white men. http://www.chakpak.com/video/madtv---the-eracists/1447917
 
 
 
It's bizarre how the Ensign, Era, Conference reports and other LDS publications will show lots of photos of people of other races and cultural backgrounds and get all proud of the alleged growth in those far away nations but you sure as shooting don't see the cultural diversity reflected in the leadership. I see white guy,white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy.... and some more white guys.
 
 
 
 The LDS like to hold up the cute "Eracist" group of carefully selected ethnic diversity but they still won't promote non-whites to major leadership positions and women still remain seriously marginalized. I'm not sure even with redacted and revisionist efforts that the LDS church can revamp ittself to join us in the 21st century. 
 
 
 
Here is a statement that seems to still apply to LDS Leadership in how they actually value the people of other nations and races:
 
Is there any reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of the worthiness or lack of it in the pre-existent life?… We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in the pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Latter-day Saints. These are rewards and punishments. - Mark E Peterson, Race Problems - As They Affect the Church.
According to performance in a pre-mortal state men and women are born into different races. The Negro is the lowest of these and not deserving of Mormon priesthood blessing. Clearly to be born White, Anglo-Saxon and LDS puts a person at the top of this caste system. In 1978 the then prophet, Spencer W. Kimball, announced that "all worthy male members of the church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard to race or color," claiming to have received revelation on the matter. This has opened a whole new mission field to the church, which is now expanding at a phenomenal rate amongst African nations.
 


   


            
 
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Marie Osmond and the Mormon Celebrity  
Posted: 11 December 2009 05:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Howzer
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Did anyone else catch Marie Osmond on the Ellen show Wednesday? (Yes, I'm a straight male who TiVos Ellen and Oprah. Get off my back about it, will ya.)
 
I didn't know Marie had spoken out against Prop 8, or that she had a gay daughter.
 
It got me thinking. How difficult it must be to be a Mormon and a celebrity. Because if my aunt Susan speaks out against Prop 8, no big deal. But if Marie Osmond does it, or Steve Young's wife, that's a big deal, given their celebrity status.
 
And why does David Archuleta get out of going on a mission? Just because he's a talented singer? I was a talented auto mechanic in my late teens, but I still "had" to go.
 
Seems like being a Mormon celebrity would be more scrutinized than, say, a Jewish celebrity. Could you imagine what would happen if Chelsie Hightower was seen by TMZ partying with Lindsay Lohan? And to be a Mormon celebrity publicly going against the church like Marie? I wonder if she gets a phone call from Headquarters, or did she leave the church long ago? She is divorced, which is another strike against her.


   


Posted: 11 December 2009 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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mamapajama
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howzer:
Did anyone else catch Marie Osmond on the Ellen show Wednesday? (Yes, I'm a straight male who TiVos Ellen and Oprah. Get off my back about it, will ya.)
 
I didn't know Marie had spoken out against Prop 8, or that she had a gay daughter.
 
It got me thinking. How difficult it must be to be a Mormon and a celebrity. Because if my aunt Susan speaks out against Prop 8, no big deal. But if Marie Osmond does it, or Steve Young's wife, that's a big deal, given their celebrity status.
 
And why does David Archuleta get out of going on a mission? Just because he's a talented singer? I was a talented auto mechanic in my late teens, but I still "had" to go.
 
Seems like being a Mormon celebrity would be more scrutinized than, say, a Jewish celebrity. Could you imagine what would happen if Chelsie Hightower was seen by TMZ partying with Lindsay Lohan? And to be a Mormon celebrity publicly going against the church like Marie? I wonder if she gets a phone call from Headquarters, or did she leave the church long ago? She is divorced, which is another strike against her.
 
Hey howzer!  Welcome to PostMo.  I've always wondered a bit about Marie.  It would be nice to sit down and have a cup of coffee with her.
 
Way back in the early 80s when the sister missionaries were in the process of converting me, Marie Osmond was on the cover of some magazine, and if I remember correctly, she had on a pair of shorts which were not the prescribed legal length to accomodate garments.  The sister missionaries got all hot and bothered because they said that there was NO WAY she could be wearing garments.  They were really upset with Marie.  I remember thinking, WTF? 
 
I should have seen it as a sign.
 
 
ETA:  I suspect if she, and other celebs are paying large chunks of money in the form of tithing, much is overlooked.   
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In the end no one will sell you what you need,
You can’t buy it off the shelf,
You got to grow it from the seed ~Chris Smither


   


Posted: 11 December 2009 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Gilgal
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If memory serves, Marie spoke out -- but after-the-fact. Too little, too late. 

   


Posted: 11 December 2009 03:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Marie has a gay child....probably the reason she spoke out. She chose to accept and support that child...not shove her under the bus...like many "mormon christian" parents do. She's to be commended. Her divorces aren't exactly Mormon kosher either.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 11 December 2009 06:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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avidreader
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I also believe that Donny countered Marie and in supporting Prop 8.  So perhaps the two Osmonds cross each other out for LDS Media?
 
Once you have your own child, some will do what is best for your their child. I would hazard a guess that Marie has had plenty of exposure to healthy, functional, gay people. So the perception of what "being gay" is different for Marie than some TBM family in a small Mormon town.  Sadly there are too many families that completly reject their child. I am still waiting for a our first Gay Mormon Celebrity!
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“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.” Friedrich Nietzsche


   


            
 
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(Joined in last 24 hours)  haylee
Total members: 9232 


Broad daylight is the best antiseptic
by Strong Free & Thankful
How do I develop a lifestyle out of Mormonism?
by Nephi
The perfect excuse for polyandry
by Tessa
Downtown Bus Robber Takes A Ride To The Floor
by Elder OldDog
Will Utah allow 'married gays' to marry opposite sex in the State also?
by Nephi
Name Finally Removed
by Matter Unorganized
Religious Trauma Syndrome
by josephs myth
INTRODUCE YOURSELVES - TAG YOU'RE IT!
by haylee
President Uchtdorf: Mistakes (#3) by Leaders and Members.
by josephs myth
I'm returning and reporting after being off this site for a while.
by Kori
Don't hold your breath waiting for LDS Inc to apologize for its obvious racism.
by Celestial Wedgie
Was Michael Jackson Mormon????
by Dogzilla Joy
Three questions or more
by Mountainhippie
Advice for getting someone to leave Mormonism
by how is this my life
Race and the Priesthood: Back to the Future edition
by Tessa
Temple Recommend Question Answered for LDS Church
by Tessa
Duck Dynasty
by Tessa
Masterbating
by Tessa
New Essay = Polygamy
by Swearing Elder
Yet Another Apostate & TBM Divorce
by Swearing Elder 

   http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/19224/