Is this man a self-hating Jew? I think he is.

Dear Readers,


One member of the "AtheistNexus.org" by the name of Michael Pianko recently commented on remarks made by a racist neo-Nazi who recently left the forum.  Michael was  raised as a Conservative Jew from birth.  He commented on one post that someone wrote that he felt guilt when being around his Orthodox Jewish teachers at the private religious school that he attended for not doing things like the Orthodox Jews do them.  He is into Ayn Rand philosophy, he says he is a Libertarian, but he strikes me as being more like a member of the Republican political party. One thing that I find disturbing about Michael is his deep hatred of anything that has to do with Judaism. He basically goes around saying who is and who is not Jewish and that you cannot be Jewish if you are not a practicing member of one of the denominations of the Jewish religion. Hello, Michael, Judaism is not just a religion. It is an ethnicity and a group of diverse cultures.  Michael doesn't like being defined by his ethnic or religious and cultural identity, he condemns others for defining themselves by their ethnicity or culture " instead of finding some other hobby or activity to engage in".




Michael Pianko seems to have no problem defining himself by his conservative philosophical and political affiliations. I find that to be quite hypocritical. Michael Pianko, just who are you to decide about who is or who isn't Jewish or what labels they choose to define their personal identities? I find it to be a little odd that you would want to belong  to or think so highly of a political party that has a lot of fundamentalist Christians amongst it members who have a deep hatred of women and the LGBT community.  I'm sure many Republicans for instance, don't want atheists to be members of their political party, just like how poverty-stricken people or members of the LGBT community are most likely not very welcome or wanted in the Republican party.  I don't know if you are a misogynist, a homophobe, a racist, a transphobe , biphobic or xenophobic. I would sincerely hope not. You do strike me as being a self-hating Jew though  who has a lot of problems that you need to work through .  Think about it.









 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko 1 hour ago
Your duty as an atheist is not to "kick jackasses" in the tailbone. You are making things worse every time you complain about these sorts of postings. After coming out as an atheist I find that I no longer get all offended at the drop of a hat about anything against Jewish people, for example. A lot of people are prejudiced, xenophobic, religious, and so on. Not me, at least not since I came out as an atheist.
 Anytime I mention to my parents that I went to group activity or met people in person, the first thing they ask is, were they Jewish? And I was afraid to talk to non Jewish women until August 2010 and my family is prejudiced against non Jewish people, especially black people.
 Now I can interact with anybody but I still have to be polite around the prejudiced people I have to come in contact with. Every time you (or other people) complain at someone, you make things worse. You make atheists look like shmuks. Now the prejudiced/ xenophobic/ religious/ nazis and so on can say," see, I was right after all, atheists hate me because I am... (Religious, white, and so on).
 And I am small government conservative/ Ayn Randist/ objectivist/ libertarian, and I vote for the "wrong major political party." Does this mean you should go ape shit crazy and tell me how no good I am? No, you should have a life and have fun hobbies and activities, and then social networking websites are poor substitutes for interacting with people in person.
 And I am a librarian (I am actually employed) and my library has a copy of adolf's book in English translation, and am I supposed to go nuts and say my library is anti-Semitic? No, I just do my job within the rules of what I am supposed to do and I act like everything is perfectly normal.
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 Permalink Reply by booklover 1 hour ago
I know, Loren. I feel like he has violated our home or something to that effect.
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn 1 hour ago

No, Pianko, what this guy is for real is a trouble making troll. He doesn't want to belong. He wants to stir things up. Most of us here have seen them before.


http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/know-the-enemy?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A2457035&xg_source=activity
















Reply by Michael Pianko on Monday

I was raised Jewish. My parents are Jewish. My mom tried to send me to a Jewish parochial school affiliated with conservative Judaism. I do not remember the interview the school conducted with me and my mother but I did not talk at the interview, so somebody from the school told my mom that I had to go to public school because I needed special help that only the public school could provide. I have had this social anxiety problem for my whole life but I am doing much better now. They must have thought I was mentally retarded.

So my parents joined a conservative synagogue when I was 5 and sent me to public schools. The conservative movement in Judaism is supposed to be intermediate between the reform movement near  the least observant end of the Jewish spectrum and the orthodox sects at the opposite end. But my parents are not that religious - they are not shabbes observant. My parents and me drove to services on saturday mornings (on shabbes or the Jewish sabbath) approximately half the time on a semi irregular basis. We ate out at non-kosher restaurants at least once a week.

This one time in Hebrew school (that's what I learned to call the Jewish religious classes I was sent to at my parents synagogue) when I was 5 the teacher told us to draw a picture of what we thought god looked like. This made me rather uncomfortable because I remembered hearing that we were not supposed to have images of god, and I don't know why none of the other kids felt disturbed or guilty and I do not remember what I drew but I was afraid to point out what I remembered hearing -about not having images of god - and this one boy drew a rather nice picture in pencil of the face of a bearded old man on top of a cloud. But all religions and cultures and all people have hypocrisies and contradictions. There are other examples I remember of my chronic guilt and hypocrisies and so on.

when I was 10-11 (by coincidence or chance) my Hebrew School teachers were orthodox Jewish women. Somehow I got the idea that orthodox Jews were doing everything Jewish people we were supposed to do and any Jew who did not do everything I thought orthodox Judaism required you to do was wrong or a bad Jew. So I felt chronically guilty for not doing orthodox Judaism but I was afraid to do what I thought I had to do or say anything. I had a bar mitzvah ceremony where I read the  haltorah portion for that week and I read several paragraphs from the torah, all in Hebrew - I did not want to do the ceremony and my mom even said I did not have to do it but I had to do it anyway in order to avoid feeling too guilty about myself even though I was afraid for people to hear my voice in public. They had a microphone.

Up to now is background information. Now here is the main moment you want to know about. One day after school when I was 15 I came home from school and there was a lamp on the shelf of the headboad of my bed. i HAD NEVER SEEN THE LAMP BEFORE. THE LAMP WAS NOT THERE WHEN I LEFT THAT MORNING. I freaked out or panicked or was too over-amazed or so over astonished that I could hardly stand it and right away I thought god must have provided the lamp. I do not know how I managed until my mother came home from work at about 10:30 pm. I asked about the lamp right when she came home but I never said anything about me thinking god had provided it until I was 26. Turns out there had been two lamps in my parents bedroom. One had broke and that morning before work my mom had went out and bought two new matching lamps and then put the old working lamp from her bedroom in my bedroom because she had remembered me one time asking for another lamp in my bedroom. So that evening while talking to my mom I suddenly realized there is no god. god did not provide the lamp. My mom-provided the lamp. I felt let down and I felt like a fool and I felt like I should have known this all along.
For now I will shorten my story but you can ask for more details. Anyway I continued to feel guilty about not doing orthodox Judaism but I did not actually practice because I did not want anybody to think I was crazy, but actually the only entity that would have thought I was crazy was another part of my brain. I finally became a bold confident person and came out to my parents as an atheist when I was 26, over the phone, and the conversation might have been the most terrible phone conversation of my life and it requires another description somewhere.
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http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/was-there-a-particular-event-in-your-life-that-contributed-to-you?id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2383915&page=4#comments













































Reply by Michael Pianko 4 hours ago
I think all of you should not have taken the time to complain about this person and I do not think is helpful of useful to ban people from atheist nexus (or other sites). You see, now this person can say, "see, I was right after all, all these people on atheist nexus are prejudiced against me because I am white." Of course this may be false, but that's is what will happen.
 So this person has a persecution complex and/ or is xenophobic and he knows it and he did not need you to tell him and you guys just made things worse and this guy is still not cured or any better. You should have pretended you did not know this post was here and written nothing!

http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/know-the-enemy?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A2457035&xg_source=activity





Reply by Michael Pianko on July 25, 2014 at 8:18pm

I am an Ayn Randist and/or small government conservative and/or libertarian or Ron Paul-type conservative. I do not like the democrat party, so I vote for the other major party. In fact I think all taxes are theft and liberalism is a mental disorder. I think environmentalism is a conspiracy to compel us into purchasing more expensive so called green products. The only thing you and me have in common is that we both know there is no god and religion is horeshit, or are you one of those agnostic-atheists who insists that he is only 99.999% sure there is no god, in order to avoid feeling too antagonistic?

So what does hating objectivism and hating small government conservatism and wanting a big government to steel from productive non-poor people have to do with atheism? I think there may be a lot of non-religious small-government conservatives, it is just that it is politically incorrect to identify as such. Do you think every single republican is a fundamentalist christian, evil, generic non-ethnically marked white person? Who do you hate more now, atheists like me, or the republicans?
And I used to be Jewish. No, I do not identify as a Jewish atheist. I identify as Michael.

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 Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on July 25, 2014 at 8:24pm

"Who do you hate more now, atheists like me, or the republicans?"

i hate you both equally.  you must have lucked into atheism as it clearly has nothing to do with your intelligence.  you're a fucking nutcase.  a conspiracy theory believing weirdo who probably stumbled upon a Hitchens rant during your Alex Jones phase. 
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 Permalink Reply by booklover on July 26, 2014 at 7:50am

Fucking nutcase is exactly the right term Matt!
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 Permalink Reply by Pat on July 26, 2014 at 8:15am

matthew, I don't hate Michael. I pity him. He's been sucked into a cult and has become one of the "true believers." Not much different that being an evangelical christian, a fundamentalist muslim, or a door banging JW. Each one has a monopoly on the truth, and an irrational, myopic view of the world dictated by the tenets of their respective cult. And, if you don't agree with him, there has to be something wrong with you, e.g. liberalism is a mental illness. Cults have to have enemies and must define those enemies as something less than normal humans. The "true believers" are gullible enough to believe it.
A 'for instance' of blind faith in the cult is the concept that all taxes are theft and government is evil. Except, I am sure he doesn't think twice about getting and using his "free shit" that he can't see is dependent on taxes like police and fire protection, and use of the sidewalks and roads. You know,  same as the welfare cheats his cult bitches about.
Here's another. Environmentalism is a conspiracy. Depending on your cult de jure, so is evolution, climate change, the moon landing, George W. Bush being in on 9/11, and hundreds of others.  These require their believers to abrogate the right to independently think, usually by promoting an anti-science, anti-rational position, and accept the "party line." Kind of like an evolution denier getting his/her yearly flu shot, or taking an antibiotic.
I strongly suspect Michael will ultimately abandon this cult, but unfortunately will probably adhere to another one. He strikes me as the type of person who goes from catholicism, to nazarene, to mormonism, to baptst, to new age spiritualism, to some other sect, faction creed or following. At each stage, being one of their banner carriers and "true believers." I'd be more than willing to bet you were right about his "Alex Jones phase."

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 Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on July 26, 2014 at 8:37am

you know Pat, i was going to write something similar but i have little patience for his type.  but i'm glad you did, because it couldn't have been written better. 
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 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky on July 27, 2014 at 8:49pm
Pat, I wish I had your way language. .
 I couldn't have put it nearly as well.
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 Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on July 31, 2014 at 11:11pm

Well analyzed and well said, Pat.

I strongly suspect Michael will ultimately abandon this cult, but unfortunately will probably adhere to another one.
I agree; he will in time abandon his present cult. He will then find another.
That's because it's easier to change cults than it is to give up the need for a cult.

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 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky on July 27, 2014 at 2:47pm
You do have a way with words Matt. Well said.
 It seems like some people make it their goal in life to irritate others.
 I don't understand it.
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 25, 2014 at 8:48pm

Wow  Michael Planko. I learned  something  about  you.....I am so sorry  to hear this.....I am a Democrat...because  the Tea Party  Republicans , who lets face it is running  the Republican  Party, are  a bunch  of haters  of  all things  I hold dear......They have  held  Congress hostage  mainly  because  they will do anything  and everything  to  destroy  the Obama  presidency.....That is  as  bigoted  as you can get...So much for  ending  racism  in the US.......I am  also  stunned  that  you do  not  believe  in any  taxes....How on earth  are  Americans  going  to get  Social Security, medicare, unemployment  insurance,  any health insurance, well paved  roads, bridges, subway  stations, public  education  etc  etc.....Liberalism  also  stands  for equal  rights for  everyone  including  all  minorities......I am also  saddened   that  you say you were Jewish...You do realize  that being  Jewish  is also  an ethnicity , so you will always  be Jewish....And by the way, the majority  of  Jewish people  are  Democrats...so you  are among  the few  who are not..
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn on July 26, 2014 at 2:08am

I'm with you, Freethinker31. All of that is true.
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 Permalink Reply by booklover on July 26, 2014 at 7:52am

You know I can't stand republiCONS. 


Permalink Reply by Jerry Wesner on July 26, 2014 at 3:36pm

Michael P. says "I do not like the democrat party, so I vote for the other major party."
I am accustomed to seeing a higher level of thought on this site.  I do not like the Republican party, but there are reasons why I don't.  I vote for Democrats not just to defeat Republicans, but to put  into effect an economic system which has been proven to work.  And to help those whom I would like to help but lack the personal resources, so I vote for us to cooperate and provide food and other necessities.  If the majority doesn't want to participate, they vote Republican, and people starve.  Or are refused a chance to live in our country with their parents and are sent back to where they probably won't live long.  Or many other bad scenarios.
But because you don't like my party?  Sounds pretty shallow.
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 26, 2014 at 3:48pm

Well said  Jerry......I think our  friend Michael needs to  re-examine his  loyalties...He may  discover  the Democratic  Party  isn't really as bad  as he thought....Also   he  should read  the Republican platform as well as the Tea Party  platform and  see  how  they  discriminate against  minorities...including  Atheists..
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 Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on July 26, 2014 at 4:32pm

yes, there's no doubt they actively discriminate against atheists.  and they push the ahistoric notion that America is a Christian nation, while taking a sledgehammer to the wall of separation of church and state.  until the Republican party changes their ways there is simply no valid reason for an atheist to support their nonsense. we could discuss taxes, immigration, gun control, spending, etc. till the cows come home. i'm against the GOP all pretty much every issue.  but were it not for the religious shit they push i wouldn't have a problem with an atheist who disagrees with the Dems on those issues and chose to vote Republican.  but you simply can't separate them now.  atheists, minorities, lgbt folk, and women should vote vote vote these maniacs out.  it's the only way they'll learn. 
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 26, 2014 at 4:57pm

Gimme  Five....Matt......Well said......
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 Permalink Reply by Pat on July 26, 2014 at 7:45pm
Excellent, matt
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 Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on July 26, 2014 at 10:21pm

Here is some demographic info from the Pew Research foundation in 2012.  I present the info because I think we need to have our eyes wide open when talking about politics.  The politicians and leadership of Republicanism may be overwhelmingly white male, but when it comes to Republican party demographics, the true believers also include a lot of women - about 48% of Republicans.  But not many people of color.

" In surveys conducted in 2012, nearly nine-in-ten (87%) Republican and Republican-leaning registered voters are white, while just 11% are minorities. In contrast, 61% of Democrats are white, while nearly four-in-ten are African American (21%), Hispanic (10%) or another race (7%).
Men make up a majority (52%) of Republican Republican-leaning voters; among Democratic voters, 43% are men while 57% are women. Republican and Republican-leaning voters also are far more likely than Democratic voters to be married (65% of Republicans vs. 49% of Democrats)."




Regardless, Republican leadership is opportunistic, narcissistic, nihilistic, money grubbing, selfish, Machievellian, hate mongering.....

I'm not always crazy about Democrats either, but choosing between the two parties is like choosing between metastatic melanoma and herpes.  I know which one I would rather have.


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 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on July 27, 2014 at 12:02pm

It appears that certain people on this site are some of the most prejudiced, hate-filled, antagonistic, arrogant, over-suspicious, un-trusting, lazy, over-accusatory, holier-than-thou people I have known of.... and why do so many of you love marijuana so much? Are you sure you are not still stoned now?

 One guy above actually wrote about the so called demographics, or gender, racial, ethnic, and so on makeup of people who are more democratic or republican. For somebody who wants to think he is so superior or non-prejudiced because he is liberal, you seem to care a lot about classifying people into various groups...  Every ethnic group has a superiority complex while at the same time also being chronically afraid that everybody else hates them.

And then there is the person who kvetched at me,  "...You do realize  that being  Jewish  is also  an ethnicity , so you will always  be Jewish....And by the way, the majority  of  Jewish people  are  Democrats..."

Look at my DNA and multiple other people's DNA under a microscope and you will not see anything about it that says I am Jewish, and ethnicity is a social construction or man-made concept meant to divide people into groups so that one group can claim to be superior to other groups... you remind me of Adolf... and who gives a sh-t what the majority of people in the group you were taught you are a member of do or think??? ... and you call yourself an atheist... JEWISH is a label I was taught that I have to have and then I was taught that I have to do all this davening and rituals because I have this label... the label is not written on my DNA and I will never let myself feel guilty due to the the fact that I do not participate in the ethnic group I was taught I have to be part of and I do not use the label I was taught that I have to use! You calling my by a certain label has no meaning or use to me and why in the universe would you have a vested interest in labeling people or making sure that people have the labels you want them to have?? Why do you care so much about labels?? Why do you care so much about notions of race and ethnicity, or about who is or is not "Jewish"?
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 Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on July 27, 2014 at 12:19pm

"...remember race and ethnicity are social constructions or categories people like you invented so that certain Europeans could claim they are better than everybody else."

actually, Michael, they're a hell of a lot more than that.  race and ethnicity fit quite nicely in modern America's tribalistic political landscape.  one tribe seeks homogeneity, as seen by their policy choices on immigration, or their interest in limiting voting rights for various ethnicities and races.  the other tribe favors inclusion and diversity, which you can spot quite easily by looking at the demographics listed above.  perhaps if we lived in a country where no one sees race or ethnicity your idealistic view of these things being a social construct might have some validity.  since we live in the real world your spouting utopian nonsense. 

and wtf does smoking pot have to do with any of this? 
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 Permalink Reply by booklover on July 27, 2014 at 2:05pm
Well Matt, WE live in the real world. I am wondering about the pot smoking remark too. Lol
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 Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on July 27, 2014 at 2:40pm
I speculate the pot thing relates to another ongoing, longrunning, but unrelated topic thread on here. Not judjing on my part, just not one of my interests. It might look like some of us are over enthusiastic about that leafy vegetable, however, and therefore not reasoning so well.
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 Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on July 27, 2014 at 2:44pm

i know the one you're talking about.  i can't believe that thread won't die!  for the life of me i can't understand how marijuana has anything to do with atheism.  might as well start a thread entitled "should atheists smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol?"
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 27, 2014 at 2:07pm

Ethnicity simply  means a group of people  who can trace their  lineage back over the centuries...People of the same ethnicity  all came  from  similar  origins....For example......African Americans  can trace  their  lineage  to Africa,  Italian  Americans to Italy, Irish Americans  to Ireland and so on.....It is a little  more  complicated  with the Jewish Americans since  they were so  spread out over  the centuries...So it is  easier  for them  to go back to Biblical days when  most Jews  lived  in the Middle East....This explains  why it was so important for many  after  the Holocaust to emigrate  back to the original  homeland.....You refer  to the DNA...Well  DNA  only  proves  that  all ethnicities are part of the Human Race...So  the bottom line  is that we are all  brothers  and sisters  of the Human race....Unfortunately in todays world, we are  separated  by ethnic  origin, and that is what I was referring to........


Reply by Michael Pianko on July 31, 2014 at 10:09pm
So, why not stop separating yourself according to your so called ethnicity and just find a life or find fun hobbies and activities that don't revolve around ethnicity? I don't go to Jewish events, for example, after I quit being Jewish.
 All ethnic groups teach their members to have a superiority complex while at the same time being afraid everybody outside the ethnic group hates members of the group.
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 31, 2014 at 10:29pm

Whoa....Where  were  you  raised?   You seem to have  a persecution  complex....I can not  relate  to what  you described.  That  all ethnicities  have a superiority  complex....That  is  really a stretch...Why is  it that you use  the word `All'......not everyone  in any  group  thinks  in unison, they are all individuals....and  should  be  judged  as such.....Period!!
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on July 31, 2014 at 10:00pm
What does politics have to do with atheism? Probably nothing. It appears that you fanatically hate all republicans. I do not hate democrats, I just I have no use for your politics, so I won't vote for democrats. And conservative radio talk show host Mark Levin is Jewish. Remember that all taxes are theft and the government should not provide social services or charity and I want everything that can be handled by private organizations to be handled by private organizations.
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 Permalink Reply by matthew greenberg on July 31, 2014 at 10:10pm

"What does politics have to do with atheism?"

plenty.  like most atheists i could give two shits about what others believe until it starts to affect my life.  but religious nuts are taking over state legislatures and fucking over american citizens with their religious bullshit.  and they're in congress, and acting like insane people.  which they are. 
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 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky on July 31, 2014 at 10:28pm
Amen Matthew. I'm with you on that.
 Republicans hide most of their misdeeds under the guise of religion. It never fails.
 I won't vote for a republican because of their religious views.
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 31, 2014 at 10:32pm

  Matt.....well said....The  Religious  Right  is trying  to mold  America in their  image......I think  I am going  to puke.......
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 Permalink Reply by booklover on August 1, 2014 at 7:32am

EXACTLY Matt!

http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/ok-can-atheists-please-stop-voting-for-republicans-now?id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2450939&page=4#comments





Reply by Michael Pianko on March 17, 2013 at 5:04pm

You don't need secular Judaism or any religion. Just abandon all this Jewish and Judaism nonsense and fine a life that doesn't revolve around any particular religion or culture. Find a few hobbies or fun activities you like to do, alone and with your family and your friends. Try to be as culturally unbiased as possible. This should be easy for you, being an atheist. Perhaps read about a variety of familiar and exotic cultures and realize that you don't have to waste time doing any kind of traditions or ceremonies just because you had converted to Judaism. Don't just do any practice or have any belief just to fit in with any group. Do not first pick a group and then do what you need to do in order to fir in with them. Instead, figure out which activities and positions you want to do and hold, and then seek out those people who are compatible with YOU! Another thing, never let your son get circumcised! Circumcision is serious sexual assault that was invented by certain ancient tribes in order to inhibit masturbation.
 Permalink Reply by E Gross on March 19, 2013 at 1:44am


"Circumcision is serious sexual assault that was invented by certain ancient tribes in order to inhibit masturbation."

Um...I am not sure where this explanation came from, but I can guarentee you, based on the memories of my youth, that it didn't work!
 
I had a could couple of minutes laugh. Thanks! :D
 
Actually, many ancient civilizations that preceded Judaism also did it. For the Egyptians, it was part of the rite for the various priesthood indoctrinations to open the initiate to certain mysteries (whatever they were), and not to keep one's hands off of "Mr. Happy".
 
Interesting input found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision
 
But thanks for the chuckle! :D
 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on March 20, 2013 at 12:51am

Stop laughing. You have no right to have an opinion about male genital mutilation for the same reason nobody will let you have an opinion about Jerry Sandusky's conviction for rear-end raping boys in Lockers rooms. Either Jerry Sandusky's sexual assault was good or bad or neutral. He was an assistant football coach at Penn State University. The reason you instantly recognize that rear-end raping boys is bad but cutting parts of boy's bodies off is good or neutral of funny (if you call it circumcision) is because you grew up in the bubble of American and/or Jewish culture, and your culture taught you to think one assault is funny while another assault is horrifying. In the bubble of American or Jewish culture male circumcision is considered good or neutral while other assaults or abuses are considered bad. Other abuses other cultures have done include female circumcision, foot binding in china, putting boards on kid's heads to change the head shape until the kid was 4 years old, in Mesoamerica, bizarre hazing-like initiation rituals, and so on. When I mention female circumcision, you are instinctively repulsed. The reason is because in American and Jewish culture, we don't do female circumcision, not because you used your brain to realize that all these assaults are just as bad as circumcision. It is not the case that male people are born defective, needing part of our bodies cut off. Both sexes are equally good and should be treated the same. Notice that in a circumcision the mother never watches them hurt her son. A lady in California glued her kid's hand to a wall and got sentenced to 99 years in prison. You don't think that is funny. Cutting pieces of male people's bodies off is funny to you. I'm not laughing.
 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on March 20, 2013 at 1:13am

I meant that you grew up in the bubble of Israeli Culture, and in the bubble of Israeli culture, cutting part of male people's bodies off is considered good or neutral, while other very similar behaviors like cutting off parts of female people's bodies, would never be tolerated. The reasons given in favor of circumcision are just as false as the reasons given in favor of doing religion.
 Permalink Reply by E Gross on March 20, 2013 at 2:16am

Actually, I grew up in the USA and moved to Israel 10 years ago. In 1952, the doctor automatically did the procedure, because it was commonly done then. (When I was 18, I became religous and had a "do over", which was just having a drop of blood extracted.) As a kid, I grew up in a Christian area, but in the community showers, I only recall seeing one other kid during my entire childhood uncircumcised. I recall thinking he got the tipped cut off somehow, but never asked im about it.
 
So no, it wasn't Israeli culture, but American culture. And it wasn't done for religious reasons during my day, while some did, but they were a minority. But I can understand your dielemma, just not your obsession. I have had an active and enjoyable sex life, and I never mourned the "loss", because it affected me in no way. Are you mourning your loss and are angry at your parents about it? Is that what this is all about?
 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on March 20, 2013 at 9:15pm

The reasons you are not able to feel what you are missing due to your circumcision and why you think you are unaffected by getting part of your body cut off is for the same kind of reasons why color blind people are unable to see why their eyesight is off. Additionally, nobody likes to feel like something is wrong with himself, so of course circumcised people do what you do, invent or borrow reasons why circumcision is good, why they are in good shape, and so on. By inhibit masturbation, I mean that of course circumcision doesn't eliminate sensation; gently stroke your palms and then try to gently feel your glans and notice the difference. With reasonable respect, you will feel a lack but laugh and convince yourself you have all the sensation possible. I don't want you to feel shitty about yourself or seem too arrogant or smart, but I know I know what i am talking about. I do want to help make circumcision illegal just like female circumcision and other sexual abuse and assault is. I am like an atheist while you are still religious in terms of circumcision. You do realize that Judaism is a system of maladaptive obsessive-compulsive behaviors and beliefs, right? I know that I didn't know what circumcision was until the week after I turned 27. Then I read a bunch of information about it. Even though I was taught that circumcision is done to mark us as different, it was actually invented  in order to try to reduce sensation because that is how obsessive-compulsive Judaism is. I suggest you read a book by Leonard B. Glick which I read, called " Marked in your Flesh, Circumcision from Ancient Judea to Modern America." There are other Jewish anti-circumcision activists and anti-circumcision organizations. Look up foreskin restoration. Look up Elyahu Ungar-Sargon, Ron Low, Norm Cohen, Miriam Pollock.
 Permalink Reply by E Gross on March 20, 2013 at 2:06am

Of course I can laugh at nonsense. "To keep boys from masterbating"? LOL!!!

And now you devolve into the same false-equivilance that PETA uses "eating meat is murder!". For females, the process is done to mutilate the clitoris and prevent her from ever having any enjoyment from sex. For men, it is the removal of a cowl of skin, a result that ends up sensitizing the penis during sex. Some may argue that the movement of the sheath may also add enjoyment, but I don't know if that is speculative or not.
 
In other words, like peta, the "Save the Penis" activists make this false equivilance for the sake of...I don't know. You might as well call peircing the earlobes of baby for earings is ear mutilation, just like the mutilating their clitoris!
 
And then you have the balls to equate it with anal sex? ROTFLMAO!!! You are now just making shit up, you know that, don't you?
 
Dude, you really need to find another outlet for your obsessions!
 
Pardon me while I share your stupidity with a friend of mine. He could use a good laugh as well.


Reply by E Gross on March 19, 2013 at 2:13am

The very fact that you have people in this forum attests to a need to bond with others of similar experiences or likes. While we have rejected the idea of a God, that the Torah is True, and that the stories are nothing more than literature, it does not mean that everyone feels equally comfortable with rejecting that connection entirely. For example, in Israel there is an atheist kibbutz made up, mostly, of Russian immigrants. They are proud of their bond, as only Russians can be, and proud of their atheism.
 
But there is a difference between being part of the club because you got the lifetime membership (Jew) and actually believing in any of that (Jewish). For example, if you are invited to a Purim party, which is basically a costume party (costumes were a a much later addition) with a lot of drinking and dancing and singing, based on a story that cannot be placed historically - do you denounce such things, or accept the invite and have a good time? I agree with @Loren who brings up the social nature that we humans crave.
 
I had a friend who was Scottish (in the USA) who, every month, put on his kilt and got together with other Scots and did whatever Scots do (I am still not sure). It was a cultural thing, and he could name all kinds of Scottish history that I was ignorant of. It reminded me of the Flintstones where Fred and Barney would go to the "Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes Lodge No. 26".  But in the case of finding such a social outlet that is devoid of any reference to a deity, is going to be tough. And if a religious reference is disturbing to you, then perhaps a different social outlet or connection would be more appropriate. It doesn't have to be Jewish, but it could be. In other words, find your own comfort zone, and be honest.
 
 
 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on July 31, 2014 at 5:53pm

E.....I enjoyed  reading  your  comment and found it quite  helpful.......I have  enjoyed  the Atheist  blogs  and Forums in A/N and also  their  chat room .......I decided  to  join  the Jewish  Atheist just  because  of my Jewish  roots...So between  the  two rooms I should  meet  plenty  of  Atheists and   Jewish Atheists   and  share  thoughts with  both .....thanks  for your  input...
 Permalink Reply by Mordekhai ben-Yosef on August 1, 2014 at 8:20am

According to Jewish law, you will always be a Jew albeit a "naughty" one.
 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on August 1, 2014 at 10:47am

Hi Mordekhai.....I am used  to being  `naughty'.......so being  a naughty jew  is fine  with me.....I would  hate giving up eating  shell fish!!....I  will have to get used  to the reference  of  being  an Atheist Jew however...    Thanks  for your  response....
 Permalink Reply by Mordekhai ben-Yosef on August 1, 2014 at 11:00am

There is a Yiddish expression: If you're eating pork, let it drip from your beard.

You are a Jew. Period.
 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 on August 1, 2014 at 11:14am

I do not have a beard........It is not fair  to  Religious  Jews to just  call myself  one...I should  distinguish myself as an Atheist Jew in fairness to them.....
 Permalink Reply by Mordekhai ben-Yosef on August 1, 2014 at 12:05pm

It's an expression, for Christ's sake! LOL!

Tell the frummer Yiden you're an apikoros!
 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on Monday

I was raised Jewish. So let us ask, Am I still Jewish???

I am NOT Jewish in the sense that if you define Jewish as a religion, the the fact that I do not do Judaism (or any religion) makes me NOT Jewish!! And "Jewish" is just a label I was taught to have in order for my parents to avoid feeling too guilty due to the possibility of not teaching me to have the label they were taught to teach their kids to have. You do not do any part of Judaism, so you are not Jewish!!! Now you need to find a life and find fun activities and hobbies and stop obsessing over religion and culture and the fact that you are an atheist and you used to do Judaism and catholicism and so on.

I do not have time to care what labels other people need to call me by (in order for them to avoid feeling too guilty or bad due to the fact that I don't participate in the religion/ culture I was taught I have to participate in and have my life revolve around) and you shouldn't care either.

At least two people at atheist events asked me whether I identify as a Jewish atheist and I replied, no, I do not identify as a Jewish atheist, I identify as Michael.
 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on Monday

You got your sons circumcised? That was a very evil thing to do to your sons. You did not not know any better. You do now.


http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/am-i-still-jewish?groupUrl=jewishatheists&groupId=2182797%3AGroup%3A53311&id=2182797%3ATopic%3A749678&page=2#comments















Sincerely,


B.W.