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oops i bumped the e-stop
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offline2014myyearoflight
oops i bumped the e-stop
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Aug 28 14 11:38 AM
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I've been out of the "borg" circa 1991, when, at that time (not baptised) i abruptly decided to go into manual over-ride... i found that i could no longer continue in the darkness that surrounds the "born in"nor did i feel i was more worthy of surviving armageddon than other "wordly" folk and relatives who weren't in the so called truth.
So i turned the key and a feint light came on within my inherited fortress. Given that i had no intentions to turn bad/evil whatever, i remained stagnate, went through a period of shunning by my parents, jw "friends" and other jw relations. After a childhood growing up through so much peer and teacher persecution for
my strong beliefs, at twenty years of age i gave all i had worked so hard toward away, (was a publisher as far back as i can remember) i began thinking and making decisions of my own, and suffered a price for a time.
The thought of going back, to me has allways brought visions of the proverbial dog returning to it's vomit..... totally unpallatable.
Twenty two years later i feel more-so the same, though since February 2014 when i accidently bumped the e-stop of my fortress, bringing it's walls crashing down, letting in an unbearably bright light too much all at once my perspective has somewhat changed, Just by innocently googling the name 'Franz', a familiar name from an assembly in sydney.au many eons ago. I have since discovered cognitive dissonance, ttatt and many other real truths since coming upon or lurking if you will on sites such as this.
Not being familiar with posting ANYWHERE i hope i've done okay. I'd like to return when spare time allows to ellaborate perhaps cautiously on my story, as most of my family are still in TT.
status offlinehalf banana
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Aug 28 14 1:03 PM
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Welcome 2014! How good to meet you. You did well on your first post (it's the hardest one to do) and I look forward to hearing the rest of your story.
When I left about the same time as you did, I wanted nothing to do with JWs or ex JWs, I had had more than my fill and it took about 19 years before I looked at apostate sites.
Now since two of my children are still under the Watchtower spell, I keep in touch with what is happening and look for ways to overcome the Borg.
Glad you found us!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offline2014myyearoflight
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Aug 28 14 9:18 PM
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Thank you for the welcome half banana! Throughout my awkward childhood years, i never felt i was accepted into any social groups,
was allways the outsider/loner within and without the congregational setting (hardly remember being invited to anything). My family,
when i was in my pre-teen and teenage years, never achieved a level of regard or spiritually strong status in the congregation, though
we did try our best.
Mum, Dad and siblings still to this day hold stubbornly to their faith, walking the straight and narrow treadmill, getting no-where.
I, on the other-hand, decided after the realization that love and acceptance were conditional on hours put in and meeting attendence,
to step off the treadmill of the WTBTS, just after studying to be baptised as it happens, at the age of 19 going on 20.
Up untill then I had quite a close association with two of the annointed brothers from a different congregation, they were lowly, elderly folk, who
appeared in desperate need of a listening ear which I provided and came to the conclusion they were both depressed and saddened by the
lack of love displayed in their congregation, more interested in chasing hours. As I listened to their concerns I realized the elders were power
hungry and only interested in what could be claimed in hours on the report cards. I think that was the point at which I began to lose my faith.
Love especially among ourselves was important to me, and a scripture that went along the lines of ' to the least of these my brothers..... you
did it to me', had an overwhelming impact on my thought process at that time, concerning these two annointed who were being treated poorly.
During those last final years of association with JW's, I formed a relationship with a wonderful "worldy" girl, who I still feel has better moral
fibre than that of many JW's. In 2005 we gave birth to a beautiful free spirited daughter and are still happily together after 23 years without
the need for any religious influence/ guidance. I also have a nice yet somewhat strained with Mum, Dad and siblings et cetera.
My memory of exact time-frame is slightly clouded, as I have let much go to keep my sanity. Many years of self-examination, feeling it was
my fault that I could not live up to Gods expectations, even after over twenty years of leaving the K.H. for the last time, it took many months
of research online to establish my self-worth,and it has been a lot to digest within the last eight months.
I don't see myself as bad/ evil though the apostate stigma does have that over-tone. I never did much in the way of rebellion after the org.
and wasn't really like the compressed spring analogy, bouncing off in all directions... I just broke, then repaired myself with help from you all
here, many years later.
It does seem rude I suppose, to have lurked here so long without introducing myself. I feel I have come to know many of you though I
am still guarded and not as giving of my innermost thoughts. I thank all of you for your healing words/thoughts/ opinions, though you
did not know I was listening in.
For the most part I do not exist in the cyber-world. Other than my wife and daughter, I seem to shy away from personal relationships,
more likely kepping my own council and offering nothing out. I'm 42 going on 43 don't like to be outstanding and do not care for applause.
I like having my quiet uncomplicated life pass, unnoticed. It was quite unnerving to hear of the gossip and conjecture eminating from
my old congregation as to why I left so abruptly. Conversly it was nice to hear some had come to my defense, because they knew first-
hand my high moral standards would not allow for such promescurity and debasement,yuck, I could not believe some would stoop to so
low a gossip mongering act.
Still, I don't believe I have the right to take away or disassemble the hopes or beliefs of others , so I will remain a listener, offering opinion
if requested and a researcher looking for that ever elusive thread that answers all my questions methodically, so I don't have to do the hard
work of finding the right questions to ask....... lazy, I know.
status offlinesolitaire
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Aug 28 14 11:19 PM
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Hello there myof and welcome :-)
Believe me, most of us were 'lurkers' before we just felt impelled by what we were reading to introduce ouselves!! As you will have already ascertained we are not a bad bunch considering we too are now 'fortress-less' smiley: tongue
Much like that couple that you mention, I too became inactive due to a total lack of compassion shown by the 'loving' brothers rather than doctrinal, but I am now just grateful that it started me on the long road out of the mind control.......
Unfortunately it took me over 30 years before I actually examined the belief system I had left..........thanks to the advent of the internet I too stumbled across this and other sites, and finally relinquished daydreams of returning to what for me was 'the norm' of the jw's............but it has changed my life in those years!! To believe you have left 'the truth' because you were not strong enough can be emotionally debilitating, so being able for the first time ever to actually examine that 'truth' - )without the help of the 'literature' lol!) - was to reclaim my life...
I applaud your bravery in leaving at such a young age, despite the fall-out you knew was inevitable!!
It's good to 'meet you' and I hope you enjoy your time here now you can actually join in the conversation smiley: wink
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status onlineFiguringitout20
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Aug 29 14 6:41 AM
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Welcome 2014! I was raised in, am exactly your age and I have a son almost your daughter's age. I was at the edges of the org by the time you left, but I didn't entirely leave until a number of years later.
I also lurked on this site for months before I posted anything. For years, even though I was pretty sure JWs didn't have the one and only "truth", part of me always still felt like maybe I was wrong and at times I felt guilty for not being in the org. However, after reading (and reading and reading!) what so many had to say here I finally learned TATT.
I can really relate to so much of your post. Glad to have you here!
status offlineCacky
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Aug 29 14 7:53 AM
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Hello and welcome. It's nice to meet you. It must be so hard to leave the org while still believing it is "the truth." I'm glad you learned TTATT so you can now be free of the mind control.
status offlinecangie
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Aug 29 14 9:58 AM
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Wave Hi Glad you stopped in. Your story is so similar to the rest of ours that I am sure you will fit right in here. It's quite alright to lurk for awhile before posting---most of us do it. Recovery from the teachings of the WTBTS (or JW.org as they now want to be called) takes time...it's a process, and you sound like you're doing well. We hope you'll stick around if you find what you need. smiley: smile
status offline3d808
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Aug 29 14 7:42 PM
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Welcome ! Glad you could join us !!! I still lurk on here myself without posting. I often find it hard to say the right things or
just be overly blunt. Glad your hear you are now officially among some amazing peeps !!!
Derek
status offlinepunkofnice
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Aug 30 14 2:04 AM
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2014. A big Unky Punky Brit welcome to you.
Yes, you've done fine for a first post.
I was still attending meetings when I joined the forum in 2010. That was the year I stopped going. This forum helped me no end.
I look forward to your return and continued contributions to el forumo.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offline2014myyearoflight
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Aug 31 14 7:41 PM
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Firstly, thank you
Solitaire
Figuringitout20
Cacky
Cangie
3d808
Punkofnice
and again,Half Banana , for your kind, welcoming comments and proffer's of kinship. All of your EX JWF&RS online usernames have become quite familiar to me in the last six to eight months.....and even though I have been familiarized with most of your actual names, I will not presume the right to use them until at least i'm prepared to divulge my real name, and recieved the approved use of yours in discourse.
Since coming upon this site I have found that reading, then critically analysing what i've just read, is a very different concept to that which I have been used to.....As I progress here I see i'm not being told as such what to believe and how to interpret, but rather..... 'here's another version of that story... an unbiased, evidence-based contextual version to help with your research---use it... or don't use it... up to you'.
I'm feeling like that of a five-year-old child, starting over.....learning to think critically..... I was sooo brain controlled before and had never cleared out that muck..... until now!!
My brain is still afflicted with all sorts of junk-files, fragmented thoughts and fairy tales that are now being disposed of day by day......I've become obsessed with gaining real truth in knowledge and ridding my mind of mostly unprovable rot....
My primary objective here is to gain an understanding, so that I can provide my precious daughter with the armoury of critical thinking.... giving her a...... "clear awareness of what are unprovable tales, and what is testable, evidence-based fact"!!
Secondary to that, I'd like to encourage other lurkers and fence-sitters to learn the difference between real truth and fictitious stories... my advice to those ones would be.....'keep on testing what you think you believe.....hit that switch.....turn that key.....prove to yourself that it works every time...in real time... Dont take it for granted that others will offer you an unbiased opinion--seek out what is true to you!! Take control of your own thoughts.....be responsible for your own actions and take credit for your own achievements!!......And if you really love some-one make it unconditional!!!'
status offlinesolitaire
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Sep 2 14 4:15 AM
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'keep on testing what you think you believe.....hit that switch.....turn that key.....prove to yourself that it works every time...in real time... Dont take it for granted that others will offer you an unbiased opinion--seek out what is true to you!! Take control of your own thoughts.....be responsible for your own actions and take credit for your own achievements!!......And if you really love some-one make it unconditional!!!'
Wow that is brilliantly succinct (and succinctly brilliant lol!!)!! And great advice both for lurkers....and the rest of us smiley: smile
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Sep 7 14 7:50 AM
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My parents are experiencing the "lack of compassion" right now. Unfortunately they are extremely indoctrinated and will likely never leave. Cognitive dissonance is right. 20 years is a long time, I cannot imagine. I am only 24 myself. I hope you can heal some here. JWs are like layers of an onion that rotted from the core. The deeper you go the more fucked up it gets.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Sep 7 14 7:51 AM
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And yes, what Sam said. Read about the scientific method and apply it to your life. We are all amateur scientists in the end. Play with the light switch.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offline2014myyearoflight
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Sep 18 14 11:59 PM
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Hi Solitaire and SwingLifeAway,
Yes I've gone around hitting as many switches as possible lately and can't remember which one's I have or haven't.....think i'll just go around again and check.
There is just so much real and enlightening information on this forum alone.... and then there's the links. It will take me a life-time to digest all that while trying to live life too.
Although I was born-in and I have a head on me like a busted onion.... this place right here, this forum is like a soothing balm, (not like the snake oil the org has for sale) it is working to heal my deepest, oldest wounds. I thank all ex jw forum contributors for being a part of that process.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Sep 19 14 10:19 PM
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Hmmm ... head like a busted onion eh? Well that's an intro and a half BustedOnion!
It's a really good feeling to land yourself smack bang in the middle of a place that feels like home, sounds like home and is full of people who know exactly where you're coming from! That's how I felt when I first tripped over my large feet and fell head first into this lovely forum!!! I look forward to reading more about you ... and if you feel like using our real names ...... then go for it! I usually do!
Rhon xx
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offline2014myyearoflight
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Sep 21 14 8:07 PM
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Hello there AndriaSyxx, my fellow auswegian, I'm from New South Wales. Opinions may vary, but... my head doesn't so much look like a busted onion rather, it's more the way the layers are responding to TTATT!
I am still, (after 23 years!!) having some difficulty shaking off the residual effects of my former jw life. I'm in the world but barely part of it... christmas, birthday's, politics, National pride and voting et cetera, all remain either awkward or foreign to me.... If you saw me beside a group of jw's you would have a hard time setting me apart... with the exception that you won't see me holding a bible or praying or preaching!!
Equally difficult it is also to express my thoughts while not letting the 'cat out of the bag' or giving away too much that will identify myself as an "apostate"( jw version or interpretation) to family and friends that I hold so dear....what a wicked web of deceit they are tangled in.... if only I could extricate them while offering an acceptable alternative!!!
There's no solid reason for my gut feeling but, I think the natives are stirring... maybe the end is nigh again... just going by the relo's extra odd mood... perhaps all will be revealed at the next assembly in october? Oh yes, I recieved my first jw web site tract a few weeks ago, hand delivered by some young ladies... no speil... nothing... that was strange!!? And it seems so long between their field service visits...I'm sure I used to revisit an area multiple times a year, not once every two or three years!!
As you said, and I agree, it is so good to land here surrounded by so many individuals who've come through similar, if not the same, traumatic experience. Just as Figuringitout20 related to my life experience, the similarities are uncanny yet quite comforting and makes you feel connected as opposed to feeling isolated.
The advice one can glean from here is beyond price, and as we all have unique lives, we must carefully make our own choice on which direction to take with regard to our own personal circumstance.
By the way, I,m certainly no typist.... or rather I'm a single digit typist... so i've been trying to imitate your and other's typing style... trying!
status offlinesolitaire
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Sep 22 14 3:15 AM
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if only I could extricate them while offering an acceptable alternative!!!
That's the brick wall we all face myof.............there is no similar alternative to blind faith!!! There are great alternatives to being brainwashed as we now know, but all of them require a person to actually think for themselves, and therein lies the scary part!!
Of course none of this is helped by the fear of losing loved ones simply because we choose to live our lives as we see fit..............but eventually, once we see the organisation for what it is, we really have no choice...........the real truth will out!!
And that is why places such as these are real life-savers, cos only those who have walked this path truly understand what it entails....
Glad you found us smiley: smile
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlinenobodyknows
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Sep 25 14 11:00 PM
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2014, welcome!
This site helped me so much when I started my fade almost 4 years ago. I lurked for a while, but I couldn't hold back. Finally, a place where I wasn't chastised for questioning my beliefs!
Something you said interested me. You've been out for 23 years, and you still haven't celebrated holidays or your birthday? I am not judging you of course, but I'd like to say, GO FOR IT! I realize everyone has a different time frame. I guess for me, even being raised in the religion, I never believed any of those things were actually wrong so I was excited to have my first tiny Christmas tree last year! I even decorated it myself! Don't let any remnants of a guilty conscience keep you from these things. Have fun doing them with your beautiful daughter!
Good luck, and keep posting!
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
status offline2014myyearoflight
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Sep 25 14 11:53 PM
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Sorry for misleading you nobodyknows, l didn't mean to say I've not celebrated holidays and Birthdays. ..... I have just felt awkward whilst doing it. ..... like it's been something foreign to me. ...less so now.
status offlinenobodyknows
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Sep 29 14 7:44 AM
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Oh! Well then keep on keepin on. :D
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
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The Son of an Elder and Regular Pioneer
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offlinePsa1mist9
The Son of an Elder and Regular Pioneer
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Sep 21 14 1:37 PM
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Hey Guys!
I just started posting things in different forums but never introduced myself so here it goes, as detailed and SHORT as possible (Ill break it up so its easier to read)
-Pre-Baptism life
Son of 50 yr old parents and all other brothers and sisters were out of the house when i was born. Grew up and could only associate with "good" witnesses. It was always a big thing to ask my partents if so and so could come over. "Did you clean the house?" "Did you do your watchtower?" etc. Dad's an elder, mother a Reg Pioneer. 3 brothers 1 sister, 1 brothers been dfd for at least 25 years for being Gay n drinking nd drugs(probably because he was depressed because of this whole situation) (also im 29 btw and never knew the reason til I was a teenager). So grew up like an only child with old parents that were completely out of touch with the 80s and 90s way of thinking and Dad was getting sick so never really played much with him or my mother. Not taught to fight, no advice with girls, no playing sports at school, (yall already know)
-Baptism life
Anyways, got baptized at 13 and I remember a thought going thru my mind at the District Convention thinking, what if this wasnt the right religion... but then i reminded myself "I went over that question in the Reasoning Book under "How Do I know this is the right religion" So I continued with it and figured it would make me a leader since I've made a decision. Well I was wishy washy, never really told people I was a JW til they asked...
-Rebel life and "Redemption
Got private reproof for having sex (I only admitted to elders because I told my brother who was a MS at the time and he forced me to do it). Then public reproof for ATTEMPTING to have sex (again told my sister in law, who I thought I could confide in but she told my brother who then foced me to tell the elders). Then I had sex again and this time I TOLD on my self on purpose and also just flat told them Im gonna keep having sex. Was DFd for 3 yrs and came back with full force Making the "truth" my own(Aux pioneer hours and working to get my privlages back) Got most of them back except giving talks within 3 yr period of giving it my relative best. In that time span I still was feeling depressed about my social anxiety. Felt i had to drink to be more of an extrovert. Plus I didnt have a job for like a yr or two during that time of the recession so I was living back with my parents so i think that attributed to it. Plus I had sex again with this gorgeous sister that I never told about who was pretty much a Hoe anyways. So that was weighing in on my concience. ..
The Apostasy (Darth Vader Voice) image
A really good friend of mine I met when I was DFd (he was DFd too but trying to come back like me; and eventually did come back around the same time i did); Opened my eyes to Freemasonry/Illuminati propaganda on Youtube. This was around the time when we were studying the Revelation book 2009. I saw one video and was HOOKED! Rappers are in on this?? Elvis working with demonic forces?? Rolling Stones too? Then I got even deeper... Zeitgeist!? Other religions.. (O well of course I knew that but to see it broken down in the videos I was like woah. So here I am telling all my friends about this stuff and all that then the video that chaged everything.... Another one of the usual Freemasonry exposed videos and guess what this guy goes and says.... "The founder of Mormonism was a Mason...*this other founder of a religion* was a 32nd degree mason... CHARLES TAZ RUSSEL the leader of the Jehovah's Witness was a Mason"!
That was the seed... Next learned of Johanes Greber the spiritualist, 1914 not being the date, the 1975 thing, sex scandals, sixscreensofthewatchtower.com, Crisis of Concience, etc. Then that got me into Bible not word of god, Adam and Eve wasnt real, Blah blah. So That got me into Buddhism, 5 percent nation of Islam, Mysticism like the kabballah (which i highly recommend); Eckhart Tolles The Power of Now; A Course in Miracles which im studying now as well as MAAT which is an ancient Kemet/Egypt system which the Bible and Koran took alot of their ideas from (makes sense now why Russell was so much into Egypt because thats what the Masons are into anyways)
NOW WHAT??
Well since 2010 I disassocitated myself on Facebook but was never official til actually this week. I was doing dumb stuff and wasnt living a righteous life... i mean just common sense stuff. I struggle with Alcohol and weed addiction so Im going to AA meetings to get a grip (its been a week and a half so far). Im still happy that Im out of the JW mentality. The only thing that sucks about leaving is that there is not another system that I could feel as strong about as I used to feel about JW when I was growing up. Like, I didnt just BELIEVE that it was the truth... I KNEW IT. Now in my journey the closest thing that I can find is A Course in Miracles and the ancient Egyptian system of MAAT (The Kabbalah will be another study but I firmly believe that theres alot of truth to that system as well.)
As far as my family life, none of my brothers and sisters speak to me except the one thats already DFd and my oldest brother whos an elder. My parents still talk to me (surprisingly) and I live with them now so I can get back on my feet financially. I was going to the meetings recently these past 2 weeks because I felt I had to since I was living with my parents again but gettin all these dirty looks from old friends and stuff wasnt worth me going. I told my partents last night that I didnt want to go anymore and they said fine just dont drink and smoke. So that was a relief. I could go on, but I dont want to make this longer than it is...
So I keep studying... I urge u guys to keep studying as well and applying to whatever is True for you. My aspirations are to be a DJ, Personal Trainer and Life Coach within the next 5 years. I Love you guys and will pray that God/Universe will continue leading you to Truth and Peace!
PeAcE N LoVe Brothers and Sisters!
(and thanks for Listening)
Last Edited By: Psa1mist9 Sep 21 14 1:44 PM. Edited 1 time.
status offlinesolitaire
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Thanks for that potted history Psa :-)
Got private reproof for having sex (I only admitted to elders because I told my brother who was a MS at the time and he forced me to do it). Then public reproof for ATTEMPTING to have sex (again told my sister in law, who I thought I could confide in but she told my brother who then forced me to tell the elders). Then I had sex again and this time I TOLD on my self on purpose and also just flat told them Im gonna keep having sex.
Lol!! I'm not surprised you owned up the last time......seems a quicker way of getting to where you were ending up anyway!! smiley: tongue
The only thing that sucks about leaving is that there is not another system that I could feel as strong about as I used to feel about JW when I was growing up.
Yeh, I know that feeling can be hard to get your head around when you leave the religion..........after all, we were brought up with the belief that we had the answers to everything .....so to go from that mindset to having to admit that we don't, can be confusing and leave us floundering...
I have gradually come to accept and welcome the fact that I don't have all the answers......and more importantly I don't need to!! If we cast around too blindly to replace those feelings of 'security' that came from being brainwashed that we had the truth.........we are always in danger of latching on to yet another bunch of crap!!! Neediness is vulnerability ........
I'm just glad that you managed to escape the mind control, and be free at last to live your life as you wish,, and make your own mistakes along the way smiley: smile
Good to have you here
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Hello and welcome. I enjoyed your story. I hope things go well with you while staying at your parents. Good luck on your aspirations.
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I have gradually come to accept and welcome the fact that I don't have all the answers......and more importantly I don't need to!! If we cast around too blindly to replace those feelings of 'security' that came from being brainwashed that we had the truth.........we are always in danger of latching on to yet another bunch of crap!!! Neediness is vulnerability ........
So True! I had done that with Islam and it definitely was to try to full the void that this jw brainwashing "security" that I was under. Thanks guys for listening and the advice.
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Hey there Psa! Welcome to the forums. Great story, very good with details and I'm glad you were able to leave. I have started my thread on which I have yet to complete. I'm doing a detailed story of my family life sibling by sibling, parents, "friends" in the truth and myself.
I grew up with my dad being an elder and my mother after being reinstated to regular pioneer, so the pressure was tough! I was a MS and then shortly removed for supplying alcohol to minor JWs for parties, fun, etc. and eventually DF'd for having sex with another gay brother a couple of times. (This is a sneak preview into my yet to be written story on here!) Anyhow, fast forward 2 years later and I moved out and never regretted a single moment! I also have some DF'd friends who I have drawn closer to now than I had while being JW.
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... just flat told them Im gonna keep having sex.
Had a big chuckle over this part of your story! Good for you. At least you weren't lying about it eh!
It's great that you have the support from your parents ... even if it has a few strings attached. Given I'm not a fan of too much alcohol and too much happy weed ... and given you're trying to control that part of your life ... that little ultimatum from your folks isn't too much to handle is it.
Rather than fill the empty jdub void with another radical all consuming religion (Islam) or any religion at all for that matter ........ study other more interesting and entertaining things. If you want to be a DJ, personal trainer and life coach in five years ...... then you have three great things to sink your teeth into already!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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status offlinesolitaire
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Aug 27 14 8:45 AM
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Hmmmmm - it's actually a full banana.....but I had no luck with hb smilies smiley: ohwell
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Is a full banana like a full monty. Ah well, our half banana is everything we need around here!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
Last Edited By: whytebyrd2 Aug 28 14 4:51 PM. Edited 1 times.
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I have just returned home to my cave in the hills after a day in the teeming metropolis. After seeing clients this morning, I went into a bookshop, bought a book on Roman mythology and then on to the British Museum for a late lunch. After basking there in the sublime glory of the Elgin Marbles; they being two thousand four hundred and fifty years old and carved with breath-taking mastery, sensitivity and panache........... I left for the West End.
My objective was to talk with JW orgiasts. (An uncomplimentary noun drawn from the new label ”JW org”... what do you think?)
Alas!............From the museum I walked the whole way down Oxford Street past Bond Street to Mable Arch and then on to Paddington but not one Awake-waver was to be seen.
Are they on holiday?... or perhaps there is a strike on for better trolleys and more tea breaks?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
Last Edited By: half banana Sep 3 14 8:35 AM. Edited 2 times.
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offlinehalf banana
life in the cult
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Cult life
Today I spoke with my very good friend who has the misfortune to be considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I said, “How’s life in the cult?”
“It’s getting so intense,” he said.
“How do you mean?” says I.
“They want obedience, it’s all about controlling. Take for example those JWs standing on the streets in London. They have to stand in exactly the same spot on the pavement for about nine hours! Three hours on and then a break and if you move off the site you were assigned; no more street witnessing privileges for you. .............They are celebrating one hundred years of 1914! What is there to celebrate? One hundred years of lies and failures?................. But they just drink it in!... It makes me want to vomit.”
Some JWs are awake!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlinepalmel1234
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Wow, that's great to hear, Half Banana!
It sounds like you didn't reply to his statements, good for you!
I know it had to take restraint for that, but letting people learn for themselves is usually the best way.
Maybe one day he'll decide to stop attending meetings.
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Wow - that must have been music to your ears hb!! Sounds like he won't be able to handle listening to too much more of their crap............and he's right, the control aspect is just intensifying smiley: sick
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Celebrating? Celebrating??!!! smiley: laugh I suppose that's one way to spin it. smiley: laugh
Glad your friend is seeing the light. The real light, not that bs the jw's sell as light.
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
-old Chinese proverb
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That's very interesting that someone who is "in" feels that way.
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Wait just a minute ...
Street witnessing is a ... privilege? Surely not!
Oh my ... the WBTS truly does offer us apostate types some prime entertainment!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Bah!!! I have yet to see any 'street witnessing' in our local town !! I shall have to put us forward to jw.org (janitors organisation) as an area 'where the need is greater' smiley: smokin
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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I'm fairly sure ... although I didn't go up too close in case I was watchtowered from behind ..................... but there was one of those cardboard display boards in our street a few weeks back. I'll have to pay more attention next time ... and I'll take photos!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Andria, I for one would be very interested to see a photo of someone being “watchtowered from behind!”
As regards the so called ’privileges’ of street witnessing, it is necessary firstly to be vetted for this high status, front-line service. Amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses, no longer is it a simple case of “us and them.” Now it is “us... and those not quite up to the mark... and them.”
If you have ever said a word against the holy GB or their sacred teachings or have doubted the credibility of the whole set-up for more than a millisecond or if you have been called into the room at the back to have your sex life examined by drooling elders; you will be barred.
Janitor World Orgasm has very high standards... as you know!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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half banana:
Andria, I for one would be very interested to see a photo of someone being “watchtowered from behind!”
I think one would need a video to fully demonstrate this phenomenon. lol
It's also amazing how many hoops they put people through to freely give of their time.
I guess it's important to make chores seem like privileges.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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The streets of my city are absolutely infested with JWs and their pestilential signboards at the moment. It's sickening. I'm working right in the heart of Melbourne's CBD, and am forever being forced off the footpath by badly dressed weirdos pulling trolleys festooned with JW propaganda, seemingly oblivious of others around them, until they get to their assigned spot that is. I was told by one of them that they have their trolleys stashed in the back of various shops across the city so they don't have to take them home at the end of the day, but they're having to find new homes for them because the shopkeepers are beginning to object.
That little piece of news was the one thing to warm my heart this cold August day.
"Which to you, is more awe inspiring; that you were created for the sole purpose of worshiping a dictator in the sky who forbids the joys of life? Or that you and I are the product of billions of years of evolution through natural selection, with each molecule making up the human body having once been a part of a distant star through the process of stellar fusion, having erupted from a supernova to one day allow each of us to sit and ponder our own existence. We are the universe becoming self aware. You can keep your gods, i belong to something greater."- Levi Herbert
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My opinion tbd, is that they are all off their trolleys, poor things.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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half banana wrote:
My opinion tbd, is that they are all off their trolleys, poor things.
Sometimes I feel sorry for them knowing that they're toiling for a lie.
Then I give thanks that I dodged a bullet.
I'd been an unbaptized publisher and seriously considered baptism at one point.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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My wife told me my mom posted pics on FB of her and my sister 'street witnessing'. I couldn't bear to look.
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half banana wrote:
I said, “How’s life in the cult?”
“It’s getting so intense,” he said.
Some JWs are awake!
You got away with using the term 'cult'? Yes. Some are awake...no pun intended.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Yes Punky, I always address JWs as “the cult” when speaking to him. He is completely out of sympathy with them but for the sake of family peace he maintains the charade.
How many more are like him knowing that JWs are a farce but not able to bear the social penalties of leaving?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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half banana wrote:
How many more are like him knowing that JWs are a farce but not able to bear the social penalties of leaving?
A higher percentage than we would imagine.
They can't leave because of the control the GB have over them. If the GB let their grip go imagine how much money and power they'd lose. The GB would have trouble getting little boys to fiddle with if the money runs out to protect them.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Street witnessing a "privilege"? When I was a teenager I would try to start my "time" (while vacation pioneering) by street witnessing. Then I would be able to quite early with my time in for the day. Weather here is over 100 during the summer (when I was out of school) so starting early was considered smart. Later on there were territories marked for the downtown area cause so many were trying to get their time going this way so I caused an over abundance of dubbies in one place. LOL None of us considered street witnessing a privilege since, at that time, we were expected to strike up conversations and to keep moving. Standing in one spot for very long was frowned upon. Things are just getting weirder and weirder in the Borg. Glad I don't have to deal with it anymore.
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What amazes me Inspecter is that no JW seems to notice that the TOTAL FAILURE of JWorg prophecy would rationally turn any normal human away from believing such an organisation.
I have decided that the next time I go to London, (I usually go to see clients and then on to the British Museum) en route I will stop and unwitness to the poor deluded ones who have been specially selected for the “privilege” of street witnessing.
The WTBTS imagine that in the advent of the silicon age they have got to change their tactics.....well I will meet their response with exposing the Awake waving pioneers to reality. I’ll let you know my results.
BTW what has happened to the horrid Watchtower magazine? Looks like it’s been demoted.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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I will stop and unwitness to the poor deluded ones who have been specially selected for the “privilege” of street witnessing.
Now that I would love to see hb
------------> hb displaying the joys of apostacy on the streets of London banana dance
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Dat's me Baby!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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A rant over my mother
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offlineEunie
A rant over my mother
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Aug 21 14 8:42 PM
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This is somewhat of a rant but every time I think of it it just pisses me off.
I never understood why my mom would never switch to another hall or whatever when she knew how I was treated by the people who were supposedly the 'best' association around. My older sister also, because neither of us really had any JW friends because for whatever reason I guess we were pegged as the baddies because our dad wasn't witness (still isn't) and my mother stayed sick a lot so she wasn't able to do half of whatever was required.
First neither one of us were allowed to have a social life in school because everyone was bad association and my mother had this thing where she felt like we didn't to see the people we did talk to after school or need to talk to them on the phone because we saw them at school all day, which in itself was stupid coming from the woman who saw her best friends at the meetings and yet would come home and get right on the phone with said friends and gossip loudly for half the night. Then the people who we were supposed to want to associate with never wanted anything to do with us because all they did was bluntly act like we were not worthy of their time. My sister and I were unhappy, and yet what did my mother do? Sit there and use that pathetic excuse of 'imperfection' and not lift a finger to make our experience better, because hell, she was comfortable where she was, what did the happiness of her two daughters matter? Not to mention that it was hell in school because I was already pegged for being different because I wasn't allowed holidays, couldn't hang out with the people who actually did seem to care about my life since they were 'worldy' and therefore bad, which just made most of them hate me too.
It was hell in school for me as well as in the kingdom hall, and when I try to tell my mom that to this day, she tries her hardest to give them all a pass. 'Well they were just imperfect', or 'just give them a chance we all learn from our mistakes'. No I gave them chances and I still have the scars to show from it. Thanks to my upbringing I basically have Social Anxiety and bouts of depression and I'm extremely needy for attention because I didn't get a lot of it, not even from my own parents because there were things more important to them. Really, my mom wouldn't even come to my choir concerts when I was in high school because 'she was going to the kingdom hall because putting god first is what she was supposed to do.'
Like I don't know if she thought she was setting a good example for me when I was fourteen because all that did was make me hate being a JW kid even more than I was already starting to. And it made me dislike her. Like who puts a religion before their kids? Who? I'm 22 and I know that whoever I end up having kids with, NOTHING OR NO ONE is coming before my child's happiness I don't care how devout I am in something. If my kids aren't happy with it, then I'm not going to constantly ignore all the signs of unhappiness just to keep shoving a religion they didn't even choose down their throats because 'it's the best way of life'.
I was never happy there, and my mother doesn't seem to get that. Even when I try to hint at that now, she still doesn't get it, or just likes to pretend that I'm just confused and I'll come back to the fold someday. I can't go back. Why the hell would I ever go back to something that only gave me bad memories? Why would I go back to something that made me feel like I was unworthy of God's love because I disagreed with most things being fed to me? Why would I go willingly sit in a place that tells me God will kill me for loving who I love? Why? Why would you think I would be happy sitting there while feeling guilty because I know none it ever sat well with me. Maybe I'm tired of constantly saying things I know my mother wants to hear just to make her happy so I can be honest about my own feelings. Maybe I'm tired of hiding my true self. Maybe I want to be able to say in my mom's face that hey, I'm a resounding agnostic, I will not believe in something anymore just because you and a bunch of other people claiming to be the 'mouthpiece of god' tell me to. And hey, if a big 'D' day does happen then I'd rather die with the knowledge that I was happy with my life than unhappy and only doing things out of obligation.
TL;DR: If my mom wanted to keep me as a JW, she should have done a lot more to accommodate me than to just shove a bible in my face and tell me to deal with 'imperfection'.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Aug 21 14 11:35 PM
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Eunie, good to see you here and vent away! Your experience as a child of a JW is not unique unfortunately. I wonder if you could share what you wrote here with your mom...maybe bits and pieces of it. This is your heart speaking...she needs to hear it is what I think.
I also can relate to the strange world of JW parents...mine didn't come to my high school graduation. I was an honor student but that went by like nothing. It didn't matter. Only pioneering and or getting hours in in the field service mattered. JW's have a very skewed idea of what matters in life. For them serving a corporate religious publishing company (aka, otherwise known as Jehovah, the registered trademark of the company) trumps all else.
All we can do is go forward in our lives and show them the positive side of that! For all the supposed glitz of JW.ORG they really are hardly a blip on the radar of life.
Live well and prosper!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
Last Edited By: whytebyrd2 Aug 21 14 11:38 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinehalf banana
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A good rant like yours Eunie, clears away the cobwebs! I hope it worked for you?
You have made me think of what the real effects of being a JW are. They always proclaim they have true Christianity because of their “fruitage” such as love and peace. The real fruitage of the JW org is irresponsibility...anything which doesn’t work within the organisation; just blame “imperfect men”.
The real and hard problems which take effort and thought to resolve are swept under the carpet. Just “lean on Jehovah” and quote “God cannot lie,” it’s a simple way of life and removes the bother of having to think for yourself. Just do what the org says and you will get into Shangri-La, Never never-land, Utopia, call it what you will.
This is reckless irresponsibility. Children need unconditional love not the JW method which is makeshift love and do what the Watchtower says above all.
This horrid religion leaves a nasty stain on all who come under its spell but you can now celebrate your freedom and as you say you will not copy the dire, unloving formula for ‘Watchtower happy families’. All the best to you as you work on your problems, they will improve with your will to sort them out. Then you can look back and see how far you have come even though you were brought up as a JW.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineCacky
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Aug 23 14 6:09 AM
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My children were treated as you were. Jws are snobs. My kids did have some friends, but most of the elder's kids and other prominent families wouldn't have anything to do with them.
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Welcome Eunie. It's good to get things of your chest sometimes.
JW parents think they're giving their children a ticket to eternal vegetable farming and lion petting. The best gift ever!
They believe it's worth every sacrifice in this life. So they end up comitting follies commonly warned against.
"A bird in the hand....", "Anything that sounds too good..."
It's almost as if watchtower doctrine is particularly designed to exploit emotional weak points in human beings.
Witnesses are supposed to indoctrine their children out of love and shun them out of love if they no longer believe in Santi Klaus.
The thought of loving your children and the feelings associated with it are highjacked to serve the Watchtower.
It's like a computer virus.
"Initiating Installation",
"Detecting Love equals: personal attachment to child",
"Overwriting Love",
"Love equals: if have child get child into cult",
"Love equals: If child leave cult delete from life".
"Love equals: Jehovah's loving organization."
Sorry you were a collateral victim of all this mind control.
But I'm glad you made your own decisons.
Cheers.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Aug 25 14 1:32 AM
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Better out than in Eunie.
I know my parents changed 'sides' of their hall .... to avoid my mother's revolting narcissistic step-father and what happened ....... he made their lives miserable on that side too. I think they were switched back at some stage as every now and then my dad let's it slip that he's bumped into 'him' or 'Jack shit' as I call him.
Hang onto that freedom Eunie!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinesolitaire
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Aug 27 14 3:04 AM
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Hey Eunie :-)
So many of us can identify with your experiences.......and no matter how hard we try to put things in perspective regarding our childhoods, it comes back to the same thing.........you only have one childhood and ours were tainted by the organisation, so its natural that we look back and feel aggrieved about them ........
But on a brighter note......I just wanted to say that it's good to see you about the place again, how have you been ? (jw problems aside!)
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Aug 29 14 3:19 PM
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Sorry you had to deal with that too! I can all relate to the difficulty of growing up as a witness. It was hard and has residual effects. I was in a family that was considered "spiritually strong" (elder, pioneers). My parents were as strict as they get. Worldly association was, of course, forbidden. But I was also usually restricted from associating with kids in the hall because they weren't "spiritual enough". So, I didn't have any friends until high school when they started paying slightly less attention to what I was doing. And then it was only JW friends. Now that I'm out my mom makes excuses or tries to cover up ANY mistakes made by anyone in the org.to try to present the front that everyone in the org is better than anyone out. Anyway, glad to have you here and vent away!
status offlinepunkofnice
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'Allo Eunie mi' ol' duck.
Greetings from the UK.
Your experience is pretty much the same as many poor JW kids. In many ways I had similar experiences.
At least you can come to this forum and see how others have felt and/or been treated.
Life's a long song and I wasted 50 years in the filthy cult so I'm glad you see it for the crud it is.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineApostateProud
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Wow, you remind me so much of myself! My dad was an elder so I made friends with the other elders' kids but my dad used his position and reputation to completely block out any feelings his children had. He was the first one tattling on me to the elders even though he knew that would result in me sitting through hours of elders interrogating me about my sexual conduct. After I was DF'ed at 17 I tried to tell my dad how hurt I was being a Witness, the constant guilt and pressure I was under pushed me to depression, eating disorders, social anxieties, and panic attacks that I still struggle with today. When I told him that the judicial committees (unofficial and official) were disturbing and sick he immediately cut me off and replied "I will not let you speak bad of the organization in this house." Since I've been DF'ed they have only cared about one thing about me - whether or not I was coming back. Being a JW was the worst part of my life. The terrors of that life this haunt me daily. I never want to go back and will do anything to keep my daughter as far away from those nut cases as possible. I would never force her into something she felt so strongly against and I will always listen to her so I can know if she's unhappy. Sadly, it can be hard to make JW parents really listen or even care sometimes, but giving that care and compassion to your own kid is an amazing substitute. At least you're still trying to make your mom listen. I've completely given up on mine. I don't expect to hear from them until one of them is on their death bed, if even then.
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ApostateProud wrote:
"I will not let you speak bad of the organization in this house."
What organisation places its own sanctity above the tender needs of its member’s children?
One can only despair at their conceit and stupidity..........
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Hi Eunie, I have recently learned (again) that you cannot save everyone. And that's hard. I hope that with some time here you can get your frustration out. For me, every day in "the world" is better than the last. Take care :)
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
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I Need help understanding my former in-laws
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offlineConfusedJesse
I Need help understanding my former in-laws
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Jul 22 14 2:04 PM
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I found your forum by accident really while trying to research the JW religion. I personally am not a religious man and was raised by an angry atheist mother who drilled in me what she thought was the meaning of life. In 2004 I married an ex-JW . I also unknowingly married into a JW family. At that time, I heard about the JW religion, but never bothered to look into it, nor cared. I joined this forum and have been lurking for many years now because I felt the need to learn all I can about the JW religion and maybe understand my wife. When I mean understand my wife, I mean understand why she does the things she does and says the things she says. When I married into this family, my MIL would always try and use bible verses in conversation with me while she tried to make her point that I was a bad person. I, being a non-believer, was Satan in her eyes. My FIL tucked his tail between his legs and was nothing but a yes man to his wife.
Fast forward to November of 2012, my wife gets in contact with an ex JW that was a family friend many years ago. This friend was living in a Catholic Homeless shelter down south due to a nasty divorce from his JW wife. When I say nasty, I mean they almost killed each other one night during one of their many domestic disputes. He ended up divorcing his wife only because the police shrink deemed their marriage over and an emergency restraining order on both parties was issued by a judge. My MIL felt bad and offered this fellow JW to live with them until he could get back on his feet. He moved up and started to rebuild his life. Almost immediately, my MIL decides to pursue a romantic relationship with this man and basically abandons her husband. My FIL was a gun crazy 2nd amendment type of man. He carried a firearm everywhere he went. He would always; I mean always try to instigate an argument against anybody for any reason. He was looking for any reason to shoot somebody. This was how crazy this man was. My wife and SIL grew up deathly afraid of their father and saw many years of abuse from this man against their mother. My in-laws were high school sweet hearts, so their relationship was all they ever knew about marriage.
Back to my story. One night I was sleeping on the sofa in the front room because my infant child was not sleeping through the night and she needed to be fed every 4 hours. So, I made the executive decision to feed my infant child every 4 hours while my beautiful wife recuperates from having a bad birth. My wife almost died giving birth to my daughter. My MIL and her boy toy walked into my house at 2am one night claiming that her husband was loading his gun and going to shoot them both. I freaked out and offered them a place to stay temporarily until things cool down. A week goes by and I realize that my MIL and her boy toy had no intention of leaving and they wanted my wife and I to take care of them, hide them from her husband, and lie to my FIL every time he called. Did I mention they were both JW’s. One night I got this intense feeling of fear that I could not ignore. I mean so intense that I started to have panic attacks. I realized that my FIL could come to my house and shoot everybody including my children in a fit of rage. As the man of the house, I made the executive decision to kick them out. The boy toy asked a friend to live in his travel trailer along with my MIL until they found a stable place to live. Both had no money and were not employed. My MIL was a traditional JW house wife.
A few weeks later my MIL somehow convinced her husband to allow them to move back into the family home and he agreed. They moved in and a few weeks later we get a call from the police. My FIL snapped one night and loaded his gun and shot my MIL, boy toy and himself in the family home. My wife just had delivered my son two months prior and my wife was recuperating just like our first child. I can go into more details, but it would take forever to read, so I keep the story short. So I find myself asking why. Why would my in-laws do such a thing? Why did they agree to an open marriage? Why are they dead? The only explanation I can come up with is her JW beliefs. My wife once told me that JW’s do not divorce. The only way a JW divorces is they die by natural causes or get hit by lightning by the hand of god. See, I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around this concept. Many months before my MIL was murdered, she became obsessed by conspiracy theories and watched every video she can on conspiracy stories. She told me a few weeks before she got shot that the world was entering into the second coming and Armageddon was close. She would spout all these biblical scriptures, prophecies, and associate these scriptures with what was going on around the word. She began hoarding food and water on the property and preparing for the end times. Again, I am trying to rationalize this tragic event and grieve. I am not a religious man. I am a man of common sense. The reason I am posting this on this forum is because I have read many stories from people on this forum who have gone through very tragic events in their lives. I have learned so much about the religion that my wife used to belong to. All you have been a great source of info about all things JW. I thank you for this. If anybody could shed some light on anything that I have talked about in this story, I would appreciate this. Here is the downer part of the story. I have to someday tell my children about what happened. They will ask and I will have to tell them. I need to get the correct info before I divulge any info to my children when this time comes.
Thank You
status offlineConfusedJesse
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Jul 23 14 4:00 AM
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Nothing huh! Thanks for the help.
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The story doesn't correlate to what most JW's practise or certainly to the rules. In fact I'd be surprised if either your Mother-in-law or father-in-law were in good standing within the congregation at the time of the tragedy.
Marriage fidelity is of high importance and love triangles, open marriages would not be tolerated. In fact the persons involved would be disfellowshipped. Your wife is right that JW's frown upon divorce though actually one way a divorce can be got as a JW is if one partner commits adultery. However the guilty party would be disfellowshipped.
Using a gun to inflict a violent death whilst not impossible is again something the JW religion would frown on as is suicide.
I think with your kids you just tell them the truth of what happened. I don't think you can apportion blame to the JW religion directly for what happened. It's just one of those unfortunate, tragic, sad stories that happens in all walks of life.
p.s. this site tends to be quiet in the summer. That might be why no one commented yet.
"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)
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Sorry you've only gotten one response so far. This forum has been a little slow lately.
I am very sorry such a horrible thing happened to your family.
To add to what Shane said, it is correct that JWs do not allow divorce. However, JWs do not allow open marriages, so that tells me your in-laws were probably not JWs, or maybe USED to be JWs and stopped going to meetings a long time ago.
You have to realize there are people who say they are JWs, but really aren’t. Maybe they studied with the witnesses for a while, or they used to be one, but stopped going to meetings a long time ago. These people claim to be JWs the same way people claim to be Catholic but haven’t stepped inside a church since their baptism.
And I doubt your FIL ever was a JW. JWs are not 2nd amendment gun nuts. The only reason they are allowed to own guns are for hunting and not for personal defense. A JW would certainly not care about their 2nd amendment rights, since they are not supposed to get involved in political issues of any kind.
It sounds like your MIL had some kind of mental illness. JWs are not supposed to get professional help for mental issues, they’re told to “pray to Jehovah” and “just study the bible more” so it could be very likely that she took some teachings she learned from the JWs and gave it her own crazy twist.
Like Shane says, I doubt the JW teachings had much to do with this terrible tragedy.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
Last Edited By: palmel1234 Jul 24 14 4:39 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinesolitaire
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Hello there and welcome to the board....
Firstly, I am sorry for all that you have been through but, if you have been lurking here for years, I am sure you would appreciate by now that we are not a group of people that would just ignore someone asking for help, jw or not................so I was slightly surprised at the tone of your second post so soon after your initial one.............
The only explanation I can come up with is her JW beliefs.
When terrible things like this happen it is natural to look for reasons.....and you are quite correct that the jw religion can, and does, cause many problems for those deeply associated with it (as you will have already seen from people here!!).......but as the others have said, this seems a lifestyle and outcome that is so far removed from how jw's are instructed to live their lives, that I would be very sceptical regarding its relevance to this tragedy..........
It sounds like you and your wife have a good and loving relationship, and after the tragedy that has befallen her family, I am sure that your support and love will be immensely important to her and your children.............dysfunctional families exist both within and without religion, even though it can sometimes exacerbate existing mental problems.....and it appears this could be so with your inlaws...
You also started off by saying you wished to understand your wife better....but your post was actually concerning your inlaws..........so maybe there are other things you haven't mentioned.....
Whatever the reasons for these terrible events, the fall-out for all of you must be life-changing, so my sympathies are with all of you..........but it may help you more to discuss these things with your wife, and see what her input about your thoughts are.....
Sam
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineConfusedJesse
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Yes they were JW. They have had fellow JW friends over while they have their bible study. I habe met a few other friends. I even went along with them to the local kingdom hall once. I am not blaming anybody nor any organization. I am just trying to figure out why and if I could have prevented this. My MIL lived her life and talked about jahova many times. After I started dating my wife 16 years ago, we got a visit from 4 elders one Saturday morning while we were watching cartoons together. They tried to manipulate her into coming back to the flock. I just figured since this forum has been so informative in my understanding of the JW religion, I decided to ask. I find it strange that after all these years, I am still learning things about my wife and her past. Very secretive.
status offlineConfusedJesse
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Jul 24 14 5:49 AM
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The problem is that I have tried to talk with my wife. I have tried to ask some of the fellow JW's and all I ever get is a cold shoulder. I seem to be hitting a brick wall when it comes to understanding. So maybe I need to ask the question in a different way. Is there a ssource that I can find which could answer my questions?
status offlinepalmel1234
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Jul 24 14 6:02 AM
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They tried to manipulate her into coming back to the flock.
There you go. They tried to get her to come BACK.
And I notice the FIL was left out of that conversation. So the only one that was maybe a JW was your MIL,
and most likely a long time ago.
Just because someone says they're a JW does not mean they're a JW. Serina Williams claims she's a JW, but she is not. No JW would consider her a JW. If you've lurked on this forum for so long you should know going to meetings or studying does not make someone a JW. You should be familiar by now with the term fading and what that means.
It sound like your MIL faded away.
But hey, if you want to insist your in-laws were JWs when you have never been one yourself, go right ahead. What do we know. We've only been born and raised up as JWs and have first hand knowledge of the religion. smiley: eyes
You came looking to us for answers and if this terrible tragedy was somehow related to being a JW, trust me, we would have no problem telling you that. But we're telling you in this case it's not.
The only explanation I can come up with is her JW beliefs.
You are trying to find an explanation that isn't there. Sometimes people just go crazy and do crazy things
and there's no reason why.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineConfusedJesse
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Jul 24 14 6:30 AM
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Maybe you are correct. Maybe I am looking too deep into this. Maybe I need to stop, step back, and look at this event as what it is. Please understand, I am just asking because this is what I have been told and what my MIL told me. Maybe the simple answer is mental illness. The strange thing about this whole things is when I would talk to my in-laws about any subject, they would talk in a intelligent way that would not give any indication that they were mentally ill. But as I have found over the years is that some people hide mental illness unknowingly and the spouse tends to acclimate to the mentally unstable spouse for the sake of argument in the literal sense. For me, this has been a frustrating experience over the years. One thing I have found frustrating is that many of the JW's that I have met over the years tend to be very secretive. Trying to get any info is like pulling teeth. I think I just found the answer to my question.
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Jul 24 14 6:56 AM
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If I offended anybody, I am sorry. Trying to find closure led me to this forum because I married into a JW family. My in-laws were very private people and always talk about Jahova. Two weeks before my in-laws passed, my MIL was reading her bible and tried to cinvince me the end times were coming. I think back now about what she said and this might have been a way for her to tell anybody who would listen about her impending death. What I mean by this is, I think she knew what her husband was capable of and gave up. She tried to leave the marriage after 38 years and did not have an escape route. I have just been through a tragic event in my life. On top of all that, my wife is not grieving very well about her parents. Put yourself in my shoes and ask yourself if you would do the same. All I am trying to do is find some understanding and closure. When I talk to people about this, they look at me like I am a crazy loon. I have to tell them this really happened. Most people do not go through an event like nor do they know anybody who has been through such an event.
status offlinepalmel1234
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Jesse,
I understand you are hurting, but you have to understand it's frustrating for someone
to insist on something that they know very little about when we're trying to help them.
I understand you want answers, but sometimes there is no logical explanation for why people do the things they do.
Think of the poor parents at Sandy Hook, I'm sure they would like answers, but sometimes there's just no explanation.
So maybe I need to ask the question in a different way. Is there a source that I can find which could answer my questions?
I'm pretty sure we answered all your questions, but if you have more questions feel free to ask them.
Just don't try to insist on something that we know far more about than you.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
Last Edited By: palmel1234 Jul 24 14 8:00 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Hello Confused.
I am a bit confused myself.
I have read your story and I am the one who doesn't understand.
You say you have lurked here for years and you say you found this forum while researching the JW religion.
And now you seem to be upset because you are not getting the reponses you need to understand the religion.
I admit to having a hard time understanding your position. You seem to be intelligent so I am wondering what you spent years reading here while you were lurking. Your questions are easily answered in the many many posts that have occured in your lurking years.
What really is your agenda?
And who are you referring to when you say fellow JWs? We don't have fellow Jws in our group, your wife doesn't because she is an exJW and your inlaws are the only ones who can tentatively make a claim to having fellow JWs.
What is your agenda?
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Jul 24 14 8:59 AM
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Three years ago you made a post that claimed your MIL had been inactive for over ten years. Now you are insistent that MIL was an active JW.
status offlinepalmel1234
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Your questions are easily answered in the many many posts that have occured in your lurking years.
I was thinking the same thing myself, Diane! But you know me, I always like to give a person the benefit of the doubt.
Three years ago you made a post that claimed your MIL had been inactive for over ten years.
Good detective work!
OP, this all happened about two years ago, correct? If you and your wife are still grieving I suggest you seek
counseling for the two of you. While most therapists don't know much about JWs, they still can help you with
the grieving process and obtain some kind of closure.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Jul 24 14 11:22 AM
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Mel, it wasn't really detective work. I simply viewed Confused's profile and read past posts.Pretty simple actually.
And a story as sensational as was posted should have made the news. I haven't found it in mainstream news or on the sites that report JW murders.
Correct me if I am wrong and please point me in the right direction to verify this story if it is indeed true.
status offlineConfusedJesse
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Jul 25 14 4:10 AM
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WoW! I found my answer. Just by posting and getting a response from a few replies gave me clarification. Thank you. Sometimes a person has a narrow view of an issue and needs to be slapped with a dose of reality sometimes to get clarity. My wife and I have been going to counseling, but it is a slow process and we only get an hour each week. The net is more informative. Again thank you. I will end this conversation now and let you nice people go about your lives.
Cheers
status offlineConfusedJesse
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Jul 25 14 4:38 AM
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One last thing before I go. I just want to say thank you all. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This forum has given me more answers to my questions than my counselor. Really. I think I need a new counselor. You nice people have been so helpful and so nice helping me figure things out. Thank you, thank you. Keep up the good work. There needs to be more forums like this on the net. I wish you all luck with your travels.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I love you all.
status offlinePeanut
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Aug 21 14 8:51 AM
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One last thing I would suggest you ask your counselor if he/she can recommend one that is familiar with the JW mindset and or has made a study of the cult. Because your experiences have been so closely wrapped up in the JW world it would seem your current counsellor doesn't have the specialist knowledge they need in order to help you best and may be why your 'therapy' has been so long and slow progressing. Just a thought. Thanks for your story and good luck.
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Text messages from two elders
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offlinespbondgirl007.jwstrugglehelpf...
Text messages from two elders
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Jul 10 14 2:09 AM
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The info. below is for those of you who showed an interest in reading up on what the elders said to me after i emailed my letter (posted previously) to the congregation...enjoy!
Approx. three days after I sent my letter out to everyone in the congregation, one of the elders in my former congregation called. The first thing he wanted to talk about was subjection to the Org. Citing the example of Moses and Aaron, he discussed how the GB is being used by God today even though they make mistakes like Moses did when he commanded water to come out of the rock. The following is my response:
I thought a bit more about your example of Moses and Aaron. What you failed to mention was the fact that Moses’ single slip of the tongue cost him his life! In one moment of frustration, he "directed attention" to himself rather than Jah; spoke "rashly with his lips"; and "acted undutifully towards Jehovah" (insight book, p. 438) But the GB has a lengthy and ongoing track record of such offenses! What's worse is the fact that they pass the buck for these sins rather than show repentance. How do you think jah feels about all that? His dealings with Moses makes the answer to this question crystal clear.
...maybe you should consider these things the next time you put Jah and the GB on equal footing at one of the meetings. (I am alluding to a comment this elder made at a meeting once; it’s quoted in my letter…”whatever comes out of the mouth of Slave, consider this as coming out of the mouth of Jehovah”)
elder #1 response:
The questions I ask myself are like those of the apostles: "Whom shall we go to away to?" (John 6:68) Where did you learn the truth about the soul, the real condition of the dead, hellfire, the trinity, the paradise, the Kingdom, being "no part of this world", the 144,000, etc.? Was it from the churches of Christendom? Or was it from Jehovah' s Witnesses? Those from whom you get your information; where did they get whatever truths they have? From their own selves? or from Jehovah's Witnesses? Further, Jesus said that "this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth" during the last days. Who is doing this work today? The churches? Those who espouse your views? Do they follow the example of Jesus and the apostles, who "preached publicly and from house to house"? These are the questions that are so revealing as to whom Jehovah is using and blessing.
My response to elder #1:
I do appreciate that i gained a love of god's word from the witnesses but that in no way obligates me to worship the GB rather than jah. It doesn't somehow exempt me from the divine obligation to obey god as ruler rather than men; to test every inspired expression, etc. Had the rank and file understood this In the first century, they wouldn't have rejected the Lord's counsel to flee Jerusalem. Their religious leaders were "sons of Abraham" and “teachers of the law” but that did not excuse them from the responsibility to "make sure of all things".
Good afternoon! I would like to conclude my thoughts from last night....According to the scriptures, neither preaching nor any other "powerful works" cancels out the sinful practice of hypocrisy in Jah's eyes --under any circumstances. the Pharisees were "sons of Abraham", "teachers of the law" as mentioned previously, and yet The Lord condemned them for their double standards in worship..."woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one of you, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehenna as yourselves." like these self-righteous men, JW's practice hypocrisy, i.e., do as I say, not as I do", so Matthew 23:15 above aptly applies to them as well. (also Matthew 23:3, 28; 7:21-23)
Elder #2:
I’ve read your letter and spoke with Bro. XXXX about your exchange w him. In light of all of that are you formally saying that you no longer want to be one of Jehovah's witnesses? We only ask that as a last resort as we would prefer to meet and discuss the matter. If however your mind is made up we will respect you decision. Thank you
My response to elder #2:
good morning...as I mentioned to bro. XXXX, there is no point in meeting with you two because there's nothing you can say that I haven't already heard and taken into consideration...I still worship Jah and talk to others about his truths but refuse to practice hypocrisy and bow down to an image--an Org.--as i once did. if you choose to disfellowship me, I know this is the real reason why (my refusal to obey the GB as ruler rather than God), for I spoke the whole truth and nothing but the truth in my letter.
Elder #2 response:
So let me get this straight one last time. You were taught what you call Gods truths through an organization that you now call an image that requires idolatry to be able to remain in its good graces. You say you learned this while in a spiritually weak state from those who were admitted apostates because the org would not listen and adopt some of their views.
And now your convinced that Jahs will for you going forward is to either teach bible truths you learned from an org you now disdain or try to convince former religous associates to adopt the view of your new group and develop the same disgust with this org and its slave that you and your group share.
Please consider 3 script pts
1. Who really is the faithful and discrete slave whom his master appt. If its not this one you must be saying its your new one
2. By their fruits you will recognize them. What righteous fruit has your group produced other than disdain for their former.
3. Not everyone saying lord lord will enter........but those doing the will of my Father. Is Jahs will for all his servants to be assoc w a group that took its very identity from an org that they now turn on and call apostate. Teaching others to hate this org and this slave is your whole ministry? Susan, you have a dead chicken on your neck and your calling it sweet smelling. Please meet w 2 of us. You have been over reached. Its not too late. Your brother still….XXXXX (Note: the “dead chicken” comment was kind of an inside joke)
My response to Elder #2:
Good morning…. In reply to your message, my study of the scriptures alone made it clear to me--long before I left--that Jah does not approve of the practice of hypocrisy; and yet I was continually required to preach/teach one thing but do another --or face expulsion from the congregation. (Matt. 23:3b, 28, 15; Romans 2:21) I believe I spelled that out very clearly in my letter. This realization had a snowball effect as it led me to question the scriptural accuracy of everything the Org. said and did from that point forward (acts 17:11; 1 john 4:1; prov. 146:3,4) Once I determined that the GB was not really the “faithful and discreet slave” as they claimed, it all made sense—the hypocrisy, consistent misapplication of God’s word, etc. It was at this point that I decided to leave. Approximately six months later, I discovered I wasn’t the only one who had seen and smelled the same “stinky”, lifeless chicken dangling from the GB’s neck :-) . So contrary to your assumption, I did not “learn this while in a spiritually weak state from those who were admitted apostates”. Rather, it was God’s word alone that led me to the light of “truth”-- something the Org. has ventured further and further away from over the years. (John 17:17) Speaking of God’s word, the similarities between apostate Jerusalem and the Watchtower Org. is truly uncanny—the self-righteous arrogance, false sense of security, the hypocrisy, etc. …yes, it’s not too late bro. XXXXX…”to begin fleeing to the mountains”. (Matt. 24:16)
status offlinesg75
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Jul 10 14 3:27 AM
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You are amazing. Respectful, yet you don't back down from what you believe. That elder telling you to be in subjection to the org just proved your point for you. What happened to "But as for us, we shall obey God as ruler than man?"
Last Edited By: sg75 Jul 10 14 3:30 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinesolitaire
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Jul 10 14 4:33 AM
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Wow!! Although I obviously read their comments (the usual blustering words which make no sense when you analyse them!!)...........its your replies that I really enjoyed!! They can never answer any of your comments without resorting to attack on you personally can they??!!
They have not even tried to show you scripturally why you are mistaken in your views..........just gotten out the good old 'fear stick' to try and beat you back into blind submission to the society smiley: sick
You never know though ......maybe even while they are trotting out their stock replies, something is niggling away in their minds.....they can either listen to that, or stick their fingers in their ears because they feel they have too much invested in these lies, to much to lose.....
Anyone who is not brainwashed can see by your communications with them that it is only they who are getting riled and using scare tactics!!
Well done smiley: smile
Sam
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Jul 10 14 6:10 AM
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Good for you staying strong I am going to really need your guys help if I ever have to go through this myself :/
status offlinespbondgirl007.jwstrugglehelpf...
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You hit the nail on the head! There are many JW's out there with secret doubts, or as you said "something...niggling away in their minds." So when I communicate, I try to persuade by speaking their lingo. What better way to do that than with the bible itself? I find that often time, those who leave become so embittered and/or angry (understandably), that they are pretty much useless in helping others to wake up and hightail it out of there. By using the bible rather than sarcasm, crude humor, etc., we can fight fire with fire and hopefully rescue more captives trapped inside the Watchtower!smiley: smile
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Jul 11 14 3:55 AM
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Exactly!! That is why I am so impressed with your mails to them............it is SO hard to put yourself back in the mindset and talk to them reasonably when they are spouting the same old rubbish.................but as you say only by talking to them calmly, and not using what would be considered 'apostate' language to them, can you ever hope to get them to use their own cognitive abilities.
I know that when I was still in, I would never even listen to anything that appeared to be condemnatory about the religion, so treading carefully is the only way...............but you still deserve a medal for staying calm and in control, when all you really want to do is scream obscenities just to get some reaction smiley: tongue
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineAndreaIsFree
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Jul 13 14 9:44 PM
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Thank you SO much for posting their responses. They had nothing to say but the typical "scare tactics". You are so logical and to the point that they had no clear response. It is such an empty religion and belief system. And I found it rather amusing that clearly the one of them had given up and just wanted you to go away! They are so anxious to df you!
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Oh well handled Bondie! I can't imagine being told that I have a dead chicken around my neck .... what a tosser to say something like that. My guess is that you're supposed to buckled under all the pressure, realise where you are going wrong, repent your wicked ways and head back into the nearest hall with your fluffy sheep tail firmly tucked between your legs! They get a ten out of ten for effort don't they!
Don't give them the satisfaction of disfellowshipping you ... that's the only reason they want to meet and in pairs of course. They can't say that you're in denial and going against what they're suggesting if they don't have backup with one another. Keep your distance ... you're already winning!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Disfellowshipped on 7/16/14 #8 [-]
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As expected, the elders shot and killed me with the shun gun on Wednesday night! My last communication with them was about two weeks prior (i posted the text messages on 7/10) so they didn't waste any time! The offense? Speaking scriptural truths to my JW neighbors! (Ephesians 4:25) Let this be a witness to Witnesses everywhere: disobedience to the GB, even in matters where these men have clearly deviated from God's Word, will not be tolerated under any circumstances! Remember this the next time you recite Acts 5:29 out in service or hear it quoted at a meeting!! Remember it the next time you shun a conscientious objector like me who refused to obey the GB as ruler rather than God!
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Thanks again to everyone here for your kind, supportive and humorous comments! I appreciate it more than you know!
Now that I'm disfellowshipped, it's full steam-ahead!! I intend to continue my crusade until 7 million JW's personally know my name!! lol
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Jul 20 14 11:23 AM
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I know that it still feels weird, even though we no longer fall under their rules.....................but tbh this is the only good thing that they will ever have done for you!!
Granted, its not done out of kindness or compassion....but you are now truly free to go full steam ahead with your life..........and no more texts or visits (Hugs))
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Looks like they had you 'marked' from the outset Bondie. Sweetest and purest way to get back and the naysayers like that ... is to live your life as fully as you can, with as much love, fun and hugs as you can ............ and when they're all doddering around a decade on, still banging on about how the world will end 'soon' ....... you can just move on by them without so much as a backwards glance. Sadly some elders and others in the various halls around this big old world of ours ... only have power and control when they're in that religion. I'm sure it attracts 'that' type of person!
Enjoy your new found freedom! I've been enjoying mine for over three decades now and have never ever regretted my decision to get up and walk out that night!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Since my last meeting at the KH 2.5 years ago, I've earned two college degrees; gotten in the best shape of my life and rekindled old "worldly" friendships! :-) So I have definitely moved on with my life --and at a pretty rapid clip! (certainly beats living in a fishbowl surrounded by peering JW eyeballs 24/7!!) But now that I'm disfellowshipped, I no longer have to hide my identity which is such a big relief! I wanted to put off the inevitable (getting DF'ed) so that when i was ready (i.e., done with school), I could collect my thoughts, write my letter, then send it to everyone in my former Hall; had they DF'ed me previously, any attempts to communicate with them would have been futile--as you know. Happily, everything went according to my plan and now i am truly free!! No more fear...no more hiding...no more muzzle! :-D
status offlinehalf banana
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Bondgirl, thank you so much for posting your most entertaining exchanges with elders.
And good for you and your grasp of the freedom that all life is heir to!
It is easy to see that what they fear most is the threat of an imagined apostate army banging on their walls showing them up for the hypocrisy they maintain.
All they can offer in defence of the gb leadership is that they are the ones who taught you “the truth” namely: the fds, mortal souls and no hellfire. These three things are not only distorted by them to the point of misunderstanding but they are entirely irrelevant to leading an even happier life without such misconstrued ”knowledge”.
They have nothing to offer other than misinformation and demand for obedience. The sooner they fail the better the world will be.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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Finally Reaching Out to Other Ex Witnesses
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status offlineMarked for life
#21 [-]
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Aug 26 14 9:56 AM
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I guess I'm late too. Welcome AP!
status offlineApostateProud
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Aug 30 14 4:54 PM
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You're never too late! This site is great and I LOVE knowing that I'm not alone in my feelings.
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Welcome!! I want to be an artist one day. How did you get yourself in a position where this financially viable? Unfortunately I have those damn student loans so I need a stable income right now. But I am chipping away at them. I'm very sorry about your parents. It is unfortunate that so many choose a cult over there family. I am lucky to have not been disfellowshipped. I find that every day in "the world" is better than the last. Since we both got out young though, I will tell you that you can get over this quicker than others. Your brain has more elasticity. Keep learning!
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineApostateProud
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Sep 13 14 3:38 AM
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Thank you, I agree. I got disfellowshipped when I was 17, my older sister got Df'ed at 21 (3 or 4 years before me). The difference in our recovery is definitely noticeable. Obviously there are other factors in recovery rate but age of leaving is a big one.
I sell my artwork on Etsy but I don't make much from that right now. I have an art page on Facebook as well that has gotten me several jobs from friends. My main source of income though is working as face painter at the zoo. I found an add on craigslist under the art section (always keep an eye out on that) and everything fell together so nicely if I still believed in God I would have said it was one of his acts.... or in real life a mixture of luck, good timing, and being a hard worker. Feel free to message me if you ever want to talk about art :) or anything else.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Sep 13 14 6:49 PM
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If you're a face painter and you're enjoying that side of your arty self ...... you could branch out and add birthday parties and other events where face painting is on offer. Festivals, market days etc ....... make yourself up a little flyer or business card, and have them with you when you're at the zoo.
There's a man in the town I live in who started his Clown business as a way of making extra cash out of school hours (he's not a former jdub) ....... he is now an adult with kids of his own and he has quite a list of regular and new customers, and he's at most of the town's festivals and market days. Face painters bring joy into the lives of kids and adults alike ....... and it's a great way of earning some extra cash while you wait for your other artwork to sell.
Real life is an amazing place to be ........................
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Finally Reaching Out to Other Ex Witnesses
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offlineApostateProud
Finally Reaching Out to Other Ex Witnesses
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Jul 22 14 6:42 PM
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Hi, I just joined this site in hopes to connect with other ex Witnesses and cope with my past. I was raised a JW, along with my 3 older siblings. My dad was an elder and very clearly had expectations of his children following in his "zealous" footsteps. It wasn't until after I was disfellowshipped and left home at 18 that I began to realize the abuse I had endured in his house and that cult, all in the name of Jehovah.
5 years later I am happily married with the most beautiful free spirited daughter. I have a job I that I love doing my passion - painting. Life is heading in the right direction now more than ever for me. Despite all this, my parents still want nothing to do with me. A few months ago I called my mother after 2 years of no contact, just to ask her if she loved me. I couldn't take one more day of wondering if my Witness mother could love her apostate daughter. She responded "I love what Jehovah loves and hate what Jehovah hates. Jehovah hates what you're doing with your life and hates who you've become." And there it was. Unless I got good with Jehovah she wanted nothing to do with me. And seeing as I want nothing to do with that cult and it's lies and manipulation my mom won't have a relationship with me. Or her son. Or her first born daughter.
I think my story is a normal Witness one. Elder father. Obedient mother. I learned to play the game fast. The better Witness you appear to be, the more disguised my double life would be. In hindsight, I was probably drawing more attention to myself but the plan made sense to me at the time especially watching the difference in love shown to my sister who was baptized at 12 versus my sister who was baptized at 18. From the age of 13 on my life was filled with back room meetings, describing my sexual thoughts, desires, and actions to groups of elders in both formal and informal committees. Shortly before my 18th birthday I had my second and last judicial committee that lasted in until almost 1AM. The moment the told me I was being disfellowshipped I felt a huge weight lift off my chest. I was finally free! That night I went home and told my parents and they hugged me, a real hug which was sort of rare in my house. We were hugging each other good bye. The next few weeks have been blocked out of my memory because they are too painful to recall.
I very lucky to have made it out so young and generally well adjusted. But every day is still a struggle, unraveling the mind fuck of brainwashing that was done, coping with the loss of my parents, dealing with body issues and eating disorders caused by my father's warped sense of values and morals. I have an incredible support system, but I could use a support system from people who first hand know what being a Witness really means as well.
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Jul 22 14 9:34 PM
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Welcome AP! This forum is an excellent support group. It's been a little slow lately, but I think that's because people get busy during the summer with vacations. I'm sure you'll have more welcoming you here soon!
In regards to your story, it is heatbreaking. ;( Your mom's response is so brainwashed and sad. Also, having to share sexual details with elders, a meeting until 1 a.m. etc. is ridiculous! Many here have had similar experiences. I am not DFd, but I'm shunned by many for choosing not to be part of it, and my relationship with my family is very strained.
I. look forward to getting to know you better here. ((Hugs))
status offlinesolitaire
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Jul 23 14 3:11 AM
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Hello there AP and welcome :-)
Although the details of your story are unfortunately familar to all of us here........each one of us is individual, and each one of us deals with the ongoing isolation and pain in our own way!! There is nothing natural about shunning your children, even more so when its purportedly done on behalf of a 'loving' god and religion smiley: sick
I am so sorry for all the hurt you have had to endure simply for trying to be who you are..........those who should love you unconditionally withdraw their love because a group of power-crazy men with delusions of greatness have told them to do so!!
When we all look back we can see that their love has always been conditional.............conditional upon going to the meetings, getting baptised, never questioning, making them look 'in good standing' in the organisation.......and as children we tried our best, cos every child just wants to be loved ......
But there comes a time when we do question, when we do want to be an individual..............but whereas in a normal family that would be celebrated, in our lives it becomes a source of contention........get back in line or lose everything that has made up your life so far.....many have even tried to carry on living a lie, just in order to keep the love of family, but that is no way to live, and affects the mental and emotional health of those who try.......
So I congratulate you on being brave enough to take back control of your life, even though you knew the fall-out it would cause............and even though the pain of losing loved ones never goes away, every time you look at your daughter you must remember to be proud of yourself for breaking the cycle of abuse..........for giving your own child that which we all deserved, unconditional love and the freedom to be who she is........and feel pity that your jw family have given up so much that is precious and irreplaceable.......for a bunch of man-made lies............
Good to have you here, and I look forward to knowing you better smiley: smile
Hugs
Sam xx
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineApostateProud
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Jul 23 14 5:40 AM
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Thank you both so much. It's good to know I'm not alone in my experience. My daughter has been the biggest source of recovery (and joy, laughter, and every other positive emotion). Without her and my husband Harry this would be so much harder. It took me years to believe in unconditional love again. I was convinced it was only a matter of time before everyone in my life shut me out, again. It's wonderful to be able to fully appreciate the love I receive daily.
status offlinepalmel1234
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Jul 24 14 11:27 AM
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Hi AP,
Yeah, I've been away from the site for a long time myself. I've been out for almost 19 years now and
once you get caught up with the day to day grind you tend to forget about the JW stuff.
But it is nice to reconnect with others who have been there, done that and know what you're talking about.
I can relate to your feelings of relief when you were disfellowshipped. I was DF'd at age 18 also,
and even though I didn't want it to happen, it was a relief. The pressure of trying to stay in was finally over.
Welcome!
-Melanie
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineCacky
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Jul 25 14 3:37 AM
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Hello and welcome to our friendly abode. Your story is a sad one, but I'm glad for you that you have found yourself and now have the freedom to be who you are. I'm sorry for the situation with your parents. It's so sad what that religion does to families. It's just not right.
status offlinehalf banana
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Jul 28 14 12:23 AM
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Hi AP and a big welcome to the site. How you have suffered at the hands of the Watchtower religion...but how you have prospered by re-joining humanity and have a proper family, not one dictated to by the ghastly governing body of JWs. You are very positive and a great advert for leaving not ”the truth” but “the lie.”
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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Welcome AP and congratulations on forging for yourself a whole new life that is very satisfying!
I don't know if there's anything anyone can say to take away the hurt of having one's own parents shun you. Some people are more forgiving about it than others; some view people like your parents as being victims themselves. I guess I have a hard time with that. Ultimately we all have to make decisions for ourselves about what to believe and stand firm for. And there is something so inherently wrong about believing in something that insists you shun your own children. As a parent who raised my children in the org., that was one of the deal breakers for me. I could NEVER in a million years ever treat one of my children as if he was dead.
So for you, I think you have to simply experience a sort of mourning where your folks are concerned. You will always have feelings of deep sadness and anger and frustration unless/until they change their thinking. But like Sam said, you should be so proud of yourself for breaking that cycle.
Valerie
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Jul 28 14 9:02 AM
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AP wrote: A few months ago I called my mother after 2 years of no contact, just to ask her if she loved me. I couldn't take one more day of wondering if my Witness mother could love her apostate daughter. She responded "I love what Jehovah loves and hate what Jehovah hates. Jehovah hates what you're doing with your life and hates who you've become."
As a mother, like Valerie said, I could never utter those words and treat my kids like that AP. I feel so sad that you had to hear that from your mom.
I wonder what it is about getting married to a wonderful person and having a beautiful grandchild and pursuing art that is so hateful to god? Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with an awful deity like that (and I don't). Glad you broke free at a young age. I am the mother being treated like you are by my first born daughter. She cut me off in a text message one beautiful summer day 3 years ago....kinda ruined that day. I haven't seen her or my 3 year old grandson in all that time. I used to send her text messages every month telling her I love her but I stopped doing that. I don't think she even looked at them.
Go on living a life that actually refutes everything JWs think happens to a so called 'apostate'. The best answer to them is to Live Well.
Still, we all know the pain this religion causes because of their utter lack of natural affection. (((AP))) and glad you're here!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Hey just wanted to say hi! Welcome aboard and I hope we hear much more from you!
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineBilly Sugger
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Welcome AP, just the place for you here...we're nearly all in the same boat, some D/Fd, some drifted, but all free.
Just a word of warning about some on here..........
image
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
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Billy Sugger wrote:
Welcome AP, just the place for you here...we're nearly all in the same boat, some D/Fd, some drifted, but all free.
Just a word of warning about some on here..........
image
We're not Weird! Just look at my avatar. Would a weird person wear a hat like that??? Well, maybe".....
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Weird....and proud of it whee
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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I'm a little late to the party, but wanted to say Welcome!
It sounds like you are doing a great job of building a real life and being true to yourself. Who knows, maybe someday your parents will come around. Or not. Either way, you've found a group who "gets it" and we will be here for you through whatever may come. smiley: smile
Misty
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
-old Chinese proverb
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Hello, AP! Nice to see you here. I'm so sorry you had to go through what you. You actually sound a lot like me, being an artist, having judicial meetings as a teenager, all that. I've been reproved 3 times, this last time I just didn't take back my "privileges" and gradually faded. I'll never forget when my elders at one of the meetings asked if I'd had an orgasm when I had sex. Yeah, i understand you girlfriend. If you need anything, we're all here for you!
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Wtf? Why do they ask such invasive questions. As IF having or not having the big O has any bearing on judgment.
status offlineBilly Sugger
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I like hats like that, Whytebird.....looks good......
Ahem.....may have got away with that.......
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
status offlinepunkofnice
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I'm glad you are finding your life outside the filthy, disgusting cult that's run by 7 paedophile protecting men in Brooklyn.
It's just a man's organisation....nothing more.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineKBG
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Hey AP, I like your screen name. I just recently learned that apostate originates from a Greek word meaning runaway slave. We are runaway slaves. And a long as we stay away from the WTBS, ya know what that makes us. FREE
Welcome!
status offlineApostateProud
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I didn't know that was what apostate means. I love it even more now! Thank you for all the encouragement. Sometimes delving into my past is too difficult and I won't be on here. But I can't run from it for long and will always return. You all have made me feel very welcomed. Thanks :)
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi and welcome AP ........
Drop in for a vent if you feel like it .... or just plod your way through the forum boards and read whatever takes your fancy. Odds are that you'll trip over someone who will make you sit up and go 'wait a minute ..... waitttttttttttttttt a minute .... that's EXACTLY how I feel ....' and then you'll go read some more!
You've probably grown up with the evil apostate butchered jdub version of what the word apostate means. In the dictionary is simply says that an apostate is someone who renounces their religious or political faith. On the WBTS aka jw.org can make a simple word seem so filthy low and dangerous.
I hope you have fun in here ...................... and remember that when things bother you, it's like a burp .... always better out than in!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Petition on Causes Re: JW Molestation 2nd Petition - AAWA
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Petition on Causes Re: JW Molestation 2nd Petition - AAWA
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It feels good to be proactive. Let's sign a petition on Causes to show support - and strengthen the claim going before the D.A.'s office in NYC. After a decade of a "criminally negligent" policy - that has failed to show good cause to have - over and over ... let's do this.
https://www.causes.com/campaigns/74017-mandate-child-molestation-reporting-in-all-religious-faiths?utm_campaign=search_widget So this link brings you to a xJW petition - page about reporting "clergy" in all religions - but it is actually an AAWA petition, and the goal is to gain support - and/or possibly telling the D.A.'s office to get them to change their policy. Not an impossibility - since their 2 witness rule does not seem to have been changed, out of respect for formerly abused members. On the page - it shows recent molestation arrests that landed JW's in jail - and/or congregations failed to report - or refused to report the crime. We are hearing about many people on various forums who lived in mandatory reporting states, yet the congregations still refused to report. On one hand, the JW's have said they were not of the clergy class.On the other hand - they cite the clergy-penitent privilege which puts them in the category of "clergy" if they ask for the legal rights that go along with a "clergy" class. I support this - and I signed it, I feel if we had 10K signatures on this ... it speaks volumes about how outraged we should be.
https://www.causes.com/campaigns/74017-mandate-child-molestation-reporting-in-all-religious-faiths?utm_campaign=search_widget
Last Edited By: TTATTUSA Mar 16 14 8:07 PM. Edited 1 time.
status offlineCacky
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I'll read it and look into it later. I just wanted to mention that in your heading, you kind of order us to sign it and I think many of us are touchy about other people telling us what to do. Just thought I'd mention it. I haven't seen you on this forum before and the idea that you come in and tell me to do something, rather than ask, gets to me a bit. But it may be a good petition, I'll look into it later. I've already signed other petitions from AAWA, and maybe I've already signed the same one.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Cacky, this petition has already been promoted on this website by one of our regular members.
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/26625/New-AAWA-Petition-To-Sign#.UyMOHM55uSo
The above poster has no interest in this forum except to come here and post not one, but three, directives to us to sign the very same petition.
Even though the message is JW related, the poster has behaved as though they are spamming.
status offlineTTATTUSA
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Actually - I am not behaving as a spammer - just excited about "change" in archival thought that was proven to be negligent and harmful. I found your forum the same day and have been on here to spread the good news.
status offlineTTATTUSA
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I am sorry you have "read" my words as I am "ordering" someone to sign it. That was not my intention - instead - I meant it as excitement - or enthusiasm. Like... "please SIGN!!" Or ... JOIN OUR CAUSE. Maybe you did not see the value behind my post and took it the wrong way.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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TTATTUSA - I apologize if I sounded like I thought your words had no value.
That is not at all what I was responding to.
I was responding to the methods you used to "spread the good news".
Frankly, you still behave like a JW.
Entering into this community is like knocking on a door.
If you are a stranger with a tract in your hand, and knock at a strange door, with "good news", don't expect a warm welcome.
However, if you behave in a manner more fitting to those "of the world", you would knock on the door, introduce yourself, and sit around and chat to get to know each other a bit before you drop the "Good News" bomb.
As I pointed out before, the "Good News" has already arrived here.
And yes, we are fully aware that it has value.
Thank you for sharing.
Welcome to the community.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Okay........... I think we need to walk a fine line here between recognizing trolls for what they are and recognizing enthusiasm. Even if someone is farming support for a cause that doesn't make their crusade inherently immoral, although it can be off putting in the context of this community. As AAWA grows there is bound to be viral marketing that comes with it, nature of the beast here. We have to have the presence of mind to sift through this.
That being said,
My only question, is why did I block this app "Causes" from accessing my information on facebook? I don't remember doing that... but I usually do things for a reason. I did unblock and sign it though.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Mar 17 14 5:53 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Good replies.
status offlineAngelofLight
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That's okay, TTATTUSA, I tried putting a petition to stop abuse in Jehovahs Witness Religion this year on Facebook and I got flack by ex-jehovahs witnesses too who wanted to complain but not do anything about the problem and help other people. If they are too busy complaining about you to see your real message that you want to help, than I am very sorry. I personally, dealing with some ex-jehovahs Witnesses myself have found them to be very mean when being proposed with things to actually change the problem. If they are too busy judging to see the good than that's their problem. Personally I support it 100%. It's nice seeing someone like you out there who actually wants to change the world like I do. All it takes is one common voice to change the way things are.
To everyone else, I am not trying to be mean, but I found most of your responses disgusting.
I have been reading the forum trying to decide whether or not to join because it actually looked fun since Im an ex-jehovahs Witness as well and was extremely abused as a child to the point I have Complex PTSD and need a Service Dog just to live. As well as the fact that I have tried to commit suicide numerous times. I thought people who were compassionate and understanding would be here after such an abusive religion.
But if you are just as judgemental as the other ex-jehovahs witnesses and Jehovahs Witnesses I have met, than I really don't see a point. People who come out of abusive religions don't need to be put down for speaking up and saying something outright to change the problem. You are all way more like jehovahs witnesses. Still can't let someone speak without complaining. That's really disgusting.
Sorry if I stepped on any of your toes.
Thought you'd actually be happy about some change. I was.
I know anyone that who was abused sexually to the point of a disability would be glad to have a chance to help others so no one else has to be treated the same.
status offlinehalf banana
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Angel of light, welcome to the site, so sorry that you have had appalling treatment in your past. You have every reason to see an end to abusive religions and we share that sentiment very strongly.
Personally I am not offended at all by TTATTUSA and have responded in the past to his encouragement to sign to limit powers of the the JW organisation.
One thing I found posting here is that within the scope of one or two sentences in written English, it is hard to determine the tone of the ’voice’ of the poster. It can easily be mistaken but usually the intention is positive and supportive even though trolls come by to make waves in our pool.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Hi Sweetysmiley: wink, Angel of Light.
In my early days of recovery, it was taking words as a personal attack. I was tired of the battle between words and took so many things far to personal.
I'd hope that none of us here would ever present ourselves so unloving - although we do have different forums where things will be said that might upset someone else. Welcome to recovery!
We're all grateful that we have AAWA and other organizations that help any of us. If that means we can sign a petition, we sign a petition because the WTBTS is so evil, hateful and controlling it takes effort for helping make a change.
At the moment I'm not having the best of days because my sister is a die hard JW and yet she is tired of their bullshit too. I cannot discuss this with her because she is very defensive and continues telling me how the WTBTS is the truth and nothing but the truth.
We will deal with the legal...we'll deal with different personalities...and when you don't agree with what someone posted - that's life.
Take care, Lin
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Ray Franz's Judicial Committee
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Ray Franz's Judicial Committee
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Jul 23 14 10:46 AM
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Info from this thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/281836/1/I-know-2-of-the-Elders-on-the-Ray-Franz-JC#.U9ACz_ldUS5
When I read COC, I was stunned that the 2 Elders (Theotis French & Rob Dibble) were on Ray Franz Judcial Committee. I have known these men for over 20 years having done RBC and Convention work with them. They are still Elders today which means they were in their early 30's(which is unheard of for a case of this importance to have inexperienced Elders to sit on) on this committee.
Without revealing myself, I have never tried(but have wanted to), ask them about their on having to judge a former GB member.
Then out of the blue, about a year ago, I was mentioning how hard it is trying to get younger ones to volunteer to one of these Elders, and he says"This is nothing compared to to sitting on the committee that had to disfellowship Ray Franz". I said "What could be so hard about that? Cut and Dry right?". He said: "WE WERE DIRECTED BY THE SOCIETY HOW TO DISFELLOWSHIP HIM!".
Then he continued on: "Ray was a nice Brother, well spoken of and he used the scriptures effectively to defend his position. There was nothing in our Sheperding Books that said that if anyone shares a meal with a DF or DA person, they too should be DF". " But the SOCIETY said use 1COR. 5:11, and do not try to explain it to him, he will just try to confuse you like all those who turn against the TRUTH!" I responded:" When you are a company man, you must listen to mama".
"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)
status offlineApostateProud
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Jul 23 14 5:38 PM
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Wow! That's amazing!
status offlinehalf banana
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Indeed this is important information about the workings of the Watchtower org and completely in line with its policy of "do as we say and not do as we do". Arrogant deluded and blind leaders that they are.
Btw, what has happened to your avatar?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineCacky
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Jul 29 14 6:47 PM
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Interesting.
status offlinesolitaire
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I'd love to know how many were 'helped out of the org' by Ray Franz's disgusting treatment at the hands of the gb...........to have personally known Ray, and seen how he and his wife were treated must have been an eye-opener to those he was close to.....
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Hopefully someone I know will be helped by him again soon. Keeping my fingers crossed. ;)
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineJoe Magarac
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I was DFed in 1976 for apostasy for reasons not connected with the Ray Franz business.
But I must say that reading his books later helped me to understand what happened to me.
status offlinehalf banana
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Joe; care to elaborate? What viewpoint was it they didn’t like?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineJoe Magarac
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I've been over this before.
Short version: I was quite the little super salesman when it came to getting people to do home Bible studies, but when Memorial time came around all my students "partook".
I wasn't really in conscious rebellion against the organization, I just didn't do it right by their standards.
status offlinehalf banana
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Looking back , ‘partaking’ was a good move on their part don’t you think?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineJoe Magarac
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You mean because it got me out?
I suppose so, but I bounced around various other Adventist groups for years before finally getting out of the whole disordered way of thinking.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Because 'Fence-rider" is staying with us for a few more weeks and we discuss religion - she told me our other sibling [JW] that lives here has regret for every telling me about Ray Franz. That's what started me on my journey ...
Although many of us don't follow any religion - we have a sense of spiritually, do our research and I'll never accept the WTBTS as holding true to anything good. Those that sit in New York are total control freaks that, like most, are simply interested in money at the expense of others. smiley: mad Damn, I'm getting pissed!smiley: mad
At the same time, although we all deal with them in one way or another, they will not destroy my happiness today. So, have a good day for however you choose using it. I''m gearing up for having fun with Halloween,, knowing they no longer control how I celebrate my life.
Thank goodness for anyone that has suffered in the name of religion and yet they could find freedom from the Borg. We will never forget those that sacrificed for helping others escape.
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