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Melbourne 2014 ......
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offlineAndriaSyxx
Melbourne 2014 ......
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Oct 16 14 12:33 AM
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I'm not in from Victoria where Melbourne lives ... however it seems the jdubs are hitting the city. Or already have judging by the news!
CBD rooms at a premium .....
The grand final is over, the Melbourne Cup still a month away. So why would the cost of a city hotel room in mid-October rival prices set during some of the nation's biggest sporting events?
The Jehovah's Witnesses are coming to town. About 70,000 of them.
From next week, pilgrims from the Christian denomination best known for door-to-door preaching will descend on Melbourne from 60 countries for their largest-ever gathering in Australia.
The three-day convention at Etihad Stadium marks the centennial of Jehovah's Witnesses' belief that Jesus Christ began ruling God's kingdom in 1914. Worshippers also believe Satan has ruled the world since being cast out of heaven.
Highlights of the holy event include a "full water immersion" mass baptism and theatrical productions of Bible stories.
If you're that way inclined ... you can read more HERE .....
By mass baptism .... are they saying they do a whole stack of people instead of single-filing them into the pondy thing one by one? Ewwww ...
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
Last Edited By: AndriaSyxx Oct 16 14 12:35 AM. Edited 1 time.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Just for fun ... I found some 'lovely' photographs for the upcoming convention/assembly or whatever they're calling them now. These were on bookface ...... I'm not knocking the religion for the naysayers who venture in thinking this is persecution. However I do find it amusing. Signs greeting delegates ... little 'show' bags ... advertising ... individual seat cleaning in huge stadium .......... entertainment galore 'in these last days'.
A lovely brochure ....
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Cleaning all the seats individually ... because obviously the 'delegates' delicate little bums cannot be sat upon chairs that are not pristine and clean ...
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Proof that the jw.org logo is popping up everywhere ... even on the back of the high visibility cleaning uniform ...
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Witnessing 'down under' ... a very flash poster and one of many. No offence to the dream team who conjured up this particular image ... but surfers downunder (always been one word since I've lived here!) go surfing ... they're not into being preached to at the beach ... Bondi Beach or not! Seems to be lots of money spent on advertising ....
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A lovely 'Bold Witnessing' display .... wonder if 'The Final War' veterans are still alive .... and wondering why over 100 years have now passed and still 'the wicked system of things' hasn't morphed into 'the new system'
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Hmm ... more advertising and greeting stuff ...
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jw.org everywhere on this lovely sign .....
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"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Gift bags ..... corporate printing I believe ....... everything is mixy-matchy
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Even Melbourne's own 'Puffing Billy' train was bedecked with jw purple and the rest of the logo stuff ...
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Gifts and things ... not sure if these go in the corporate advertising gift bags or not ..... should be reclassified as 'show off' bags ... oh ouch, I'm persecuting the WBTS again!
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Finally ... a little boy from Melbourne holding up a sign. I've cropped the photo as I wouldn't want images of my kids splattered across the web either. Pity they didn't think of that before it hit their bookface page! He has that bright eyed bushy tailed look of wonderment on his face .... wonder if he'll leave when he's a teenager or young adult?
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"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinemaksutov
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Wow, the marketing department has been busy!
Russ.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hasn't it just! They are also banging on about leaving the stadium 'better than when they went in'. If that's not the usual jdub superiority ... I don't know what is!
Nothing in their marketing campaign says anything about warning the brothers and sisters to stay away from the evil internet ... or not to post images on bookface ..... it's all in the 'new light' category I guess!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Sects of Jehovahs witnesses
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status offlinebirdwoman2
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May 28 14 7:32 AM
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Thank you for that information on the video, Woohoo.
I watched it all but it was very long and dry in many parts as well as I had to ignore the evangelical approach to the analysis of the movement.
However, it was a good video and informative.
The one theme though, that I thought should have been number one on his list of Miller themes, was the idea of publishing magazines. All of the Advent movement owes its very existence to the publishing industry. Without Joseph Hines stepping in and reviving Wm. Miller's end times doctrines through the publication of a magazine, the Advent movement would never have been where it is today. And, of course, the WTBS is continuing the tradition of proclaiming that the 'Word' is authoritative - the 'word' being their word in the form of publicized material. In other words, if we (WTBS) control the 'word' (publications) then, we (WTBS) must be from Gawd.
Which brings up a question - where do the splinter groups, such as the one in the opening post, get their literature from? Or do they just recycle the old publications? Which would be weird...I have always wondered what has happened to all the old publications that have been spread will nilly throughout the world. Do people use them to start fires? I can see that in the'old days'...but...not too many wood burning stoves out there now. I guess the blue bins would work...recycling and all that.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
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status offlinewoohoo
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birdwoman2 wrote:
I watched it all but it was very long and dry in many parts as well as I had to ignore the evangelical approach to the analysis of the movement.
However, it was a good video and informative.
I agree. I watched half one day and the other half the next.
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I found another Jehovah's Witness sect. (it is possible that they fall under one of the 'umbrellas' mentioned in an earlier post from JWOP) It is a group from 'behind the Iron Curtain' - it operates in the Ukraine and Russia. They call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses separated - the Theocracy Publishers.
They separated from the Watchtower Society's doctrine at the mark of the year 1942 and they follow the literature of the Watchtower Society only up until Rutherford's death in that year.
It would be interesting to learn more of the history of this group - especially the reasons for separating from the Watchtower Society. What prompted the separation from the Society besides world politics? They are specific - the death of Rutherford is what ended their alliance with the Society. The Society's take was that they couldn't get literature in after 1948. *actually...just thinking some more - yes, the lack of literature and contact from the Society would lead to a very decisive split around the death of Rutherford - they would view the dramatic changes in doctrine as apostasy from New York. And this split have occurred after the Wall fell. And it would have naturally occurred - there were so many changes in the years when there was a forced no contact by Communist rule.
This material is fairly recent - the General Assemblies are from 1990, 2001 and 2003.
Are these the same Jehovah's Witnesses that the Watchtower Society would use as martyrs of their religion during the Cold War? The ones the Society would say horrible things were happening to them behind the Iron Curtain? I grew up on stories about the loyal Jehovah's Witnesses in Communist Russia post-WW2 period.
Well.
Not all of the Russian and Ukrainian brothers and sisters have remained loyal to the Watchtower Society - these claim loyalty only to 1942 and follow only Russell/Rutherford's doctrine.
In other words, they reject the leadership of the Watchtower Society.
These files are at achive.org. The first 2 links are to videos of assemblies - if someone could embed these files, please do.
General Assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses - the Theocracy Publishers of June 1, 2001, at Ataky, Chernivetska oblast, Ukraine.
thumbnails from video -
6e13641e15c2b6c40884557c39edad8cf992471a
eb1366c112bfb25d092d5977330ba8ab6d97aebd
4293606912b4bc2e001a59e738f9aa3fe34a272c
0ca26de18eb080a45433cea24fd9dd45ae73b7fe
95116c1fb8005e33a0c133b97fa0c5bda18b044b
General Assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses - the Theocracy Publishers of October 3, 2003.
thumbnails from video:
38916911bd065f37a98573a2d317a4d4c6399cc1
07a3612b1491bd800a785ed8322fa8a09c426077
cb1369f8160fbfd907cd55ba3a32ab0ff3874267
0f526b7184bc30cc5da382a3ba0baf483b4d3854
There are lots of files at this link:
"Here are all materials of Jehovah's witnesses, to wit, text, audio and video. These witnesses of Jehovah have nothing in common with the modern-day Watchtower Society located in New York, U.S.A. They recognize as true activities, beliefs, and literature of the Society only under Russel and Rutherford, that is, untill 1942. Furthermore they believe in Jehovah's will at the present time given by "faithful and wise servant", which will is to proclaim final warning to Satan's organization, according to Daniel 11:44 and other Bible prophecies. In order that this was made known and the name of Jehovah vindicated the witnesses of Jehovah want to share this information with the public and all the peoples of the earth."
And songs:
""Songs of Praise to Jehovah" sung by Choir of Jehovah's Witnesses separated, who recognize as right and true activities and literature of the Watchtower Society only untill J.F. Rutherford's death.
Song Book of 1928 issue. Songs in Russian and Ukrainian"
Last Edited By: birdwoman2 Oct 16 14 7:14 PM. Edited 6 times.
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I need some support -thank you
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offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
I need some support -thank you
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Oct 5 14 1:01 PM
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I'm crying because it seems no matter how I try being different from my other JW' siblings - I'm going to be the bad one. [Scapegoat]
It's no secret that I enjoy my vodka...but when asking for help from 'fence-rider' on a specific item dealing with food that would help her too - all hell broke out because she isn't going to live like that because she smelled my breath and literally put her fist in my face!
She should actually be grateful I didn't punch her to the ground...telling me how certain words are "Trigger" words for her? What's with that! Oh, I know, she wants doing her "ministry" but if someone doesn't speak as she thinks they should, your gonna put your fist in their face?
After all that bullshit and we were talking again, it 's coming down to how now she will check herself into the pysch hospital. She is someone that puts to much emphasis on the past and won't let go of her precious Jehovah.
It's been good talking with a sibling that isn't shunning but she is not going to tell me how to live my life...I will answer to God, thank you very much for thinking you can [control[ me...any more than I can control her.
Last Edited By: Linda Oct 5 14 1:18 PM. Edited 2 times.
status offlineinspecterD
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I am so sorry that you are having such a rough time with your family at this time. You must have hit a nerve that helped your sister to see she needs help. That's a plus. I know it is awful to think that everyone is considering you the bad one but NOT HERE! Keep your chin and realize that you have escaped the Borg and that there will be fall out. Because you are not one with them they will always (until they figure out otherwise about the Borg) consider you as less than approved. It hurts when it is family that is so disapproving but realize that we are here for you and know for a fact that you are just as approved as anyone else. In fact, you smarter than the average bear when it comes to knowing TTATT.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Thank you, InspecterD for responding to my post smiley: smile
It's a very sad situation taking place right now and although my community of loving people have gone out of their way for helping her too - she does not have permission to shame me.
"Fence-rider" is the one that [at this time] cannot find forgiveness from those that once harmed her and I find that concept to be very hateful. I didn't realize how much my beloved sister was IMO, so full of hate while professing to be a Christian that would tell others how they should live.
Because she and John have a good relationship and they talk all the time, John told me how she is still so worried about me. I want her to stop thinking about my spiritual condition and get busy with taking care of herself.
So, thanks again for the support because it's not going to be easy and no matter, I'll never stop loving my sister although she believes no one loves her.
It's not that people don't love her, she is the one that doesn't love herself and wants playing by the shame/blame game that many of us got over years ago.
Last Edited By: Linda Oct 6 14 2:50 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinecalminthestorm
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Lin-Unfortunately we all go through this kind of family stuff but with our own unique brand of it. The organization messes with us all way beyond the time we attend meetings. It's a hard thing to break away from psychologically. Sending good thoughts your way Lin.
smiley: happy
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I agree with Calm. I hope things get a bit better for you.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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She told me this morning, knowing she will be going back to AZ for packing up her stuff and move to this area - she had spoken with one of the elders. She mentioned that if it comes to her being DF, so be it.
Despite my 'breath' the other day, I'm hoping she realizes there is a life [even at her age, 70] and enjoy the remainder of her years. I'd hope to has some positive for sharing.
Hubby always quotes something he read: "Get busy living or get busy dying."
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Don't cry Lin.......its hard enough dealing with family members, but when you add the religion into the mix its impossible!! Your sister is not your guardian or your conscience, no matter how hard she tries to be.........that bloody sanctimonious jw 'I'm right' face will always kick in eh ??!!
So try not to get angry back at her, but DO be positive and forceful!! She have every right to live her life as she chooses......so she must afford you the same freedom!! Thats what real love and respect are all about
((Hugs))
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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I'm learning that she is very forgetful as to what her plans are for getting relocated. I spoke with her one daughter last night....while she is reading her JW Bible and takes everything so serious and wants telling others how they should be spiritual towards Jehovah.
I try respecting her belief but she also needs respecting this is my home and all she needs doing is get busy across the street into her new home that everyone has helped get her out of a bad area and be our neighbor and we'll help her.
Sam. I actually do listen to much of what she says because we discuss family and I know it's not going to be easy for her. Hubby was forced to tell her it's time to get busy living her life because where she's living in our part of the home and she is welcome, he needs doing some more remodeling before our weather changes. I've had to make a list of what she needs getting done across the street and stop fretting about my home.
I didn't realize it would be this difficult...so of course I appreciate the support and love. All those hugs and love go back to ya'll.
Last Edited By: Linda Oct 9 14 5:08 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Lin honey ..... you need some of my 'who gives a shit' attitude when it comes to family members who are jdubs!
You don't have to respect your sister's beliefs. You can accept that it's her choice to be part of a fantasy island type religious experience ...... but you don't ever have to agree with it. There's a difference. Hopefully she will soon be back in her own space and you can put some distance between you. I absolutely adore my sister ... so if you need a nice one, I could be persuaded to share her with you!!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Rhonda...good point. I will never respect her religion, I just love her.
We've been making progress when all of sudden hubbies 'old religion'showed up and I want being kind to them too. I'm sick of religion and having family telling me how I should believe or not in the bible so I'm learning when those times comes it easier for me to simply go rest my body because I'm old and tired and don't want listening to what they discuss because I'll disagree with church doctrine -I don't care what church it is.
Dinner should be ready for John's church members that will carving the pumpkins for the holiday season...sister is invited for dinner and I'm going back to bed and rest my tired body and I most certainly don't want hearing some judgment because I'm not going to be there.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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I just posted something in another story because this computer is so screwed up...
"Patience is a Grace"...so, guess I'm not very grateful for just being able to post because everything gets screwed up and I'm at a loss for what to do.
I do enjoy Yuku server and it gets lost among the other things on line...especially when John has cleaned everything out and I need starting all over again.
So, update on why I can continue having support from you beloved people - she would not join us for dinner because of whatever? I'm learning to just let her live her life but refuse seeing her go hungry. She just hides away in the dark, waiting until she has money for going back to AZ and bring here stuff here. I know she suffers from depression but don't put that crap on me about not joining in on a happy event.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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As much as you love your sister Lin ...... you still have your hubby and your life to keep on track too. If your sister decides to hide herself away, there is nothing you can do but be there when she's not in the mood for hiding. Perhaps she's more jealous of your freedom than you realise and that's why she's finding it so hard to be civil all the time ...... jealousy and guilt do strange things to people, as you well know.
With regards to religion ...... I warn people up front that if that want to drag me into their religious conversations and share their religious ideas with me, it is at their own peril! Always gets a smile or a laugh when I say that. Those who don't know me though ... soon find out that religion and I have very differing opinions of one another!!!! haha
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Morning, Rhonda.
I spoke with my niece last evening and she continues to tell me it's her mothers way or no way. Hubby is getting tired of helping someone that apparently doesn't help themselves. So, because it is me and hubby, sister needs get off the pity pot just because she is older and he's fed up with her attitude.
Hell, none of us are getting any younger but we don't play by her rules for how we should live by her opinions. [control]
I thank ya'll again for being here for me during stressful times and hope I can encourage someone else at times.
Too, your thought as to just back out of any forum for a few minutes is working, thanks.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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There are some people in our world Lin ... who insist on having everyone dance to their merry and not-so-merry little tunes. The great thing about people like that ... is that they can only have dancers if the dancers are willing to dance! Maybe when your sister starts being silly ... you can just change the subject or start singing one of your favourite songs. That way her attention can be diverted and you will enjoy yourself!!!!
I'm glad the trick with the forum boards is working .... I've had to do that myself in the past.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Sorry you're having problems with your sister, Linda, I know it must hurt to want to help her but she won't let you.
It sounds like your sister is having some mental issues that are affecting her. I agree with your husband that you can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves.
Best to love her from a distance while you continue living your life.
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status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Tonight when we were having dinner together and we were discussing family issues/and of course the religion...she got on my nerves with telling me I sounded angry. Really? I sound angry just because I don't agree with you?
At any rate, she knows I'm not playing by her rules of conduct while she can remain hateful towards others. She took her dog home and we probably won't talk tomorrow because I'm the hateful one.
I'm trying not to beat myself up just because of her...She wants control over everything and it's not working for her because she is now on my turf where we practice love and forgiveness.
Thanks for letting me vent, again!
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Linda,
Maybe you should avoid discussing topics that cause tension and arguments.
I've learned that it's best to avoid controversial topics that I know are going to cause nothing but arguments.
Even when someone starts saying stuff I don't agree with, I just listen and then I change the subject.
At first I felt like I HAD to show them they were wrong and I was right, that if I just said
the right thing I could change their mind, but now I realize I can't change the way someone feels about something,
no more than they can change how I feel about it.
It's best to agree to disagree. At first I felt like I was compromising, but I tried it
and you'd be amazed how much easier it makes life for you.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Hi Palm.
That was a part of the problem the other night. When I walked away from the conversation ... and fence-rider took it as to 'why' I did such because I wasn't going to get into an argument over religion; she doesn't want hearing what I might say about her religion and of course because she knows I come here for support - I'm still the bad guy that needs going back to the KH and beg their forgivenesssmiley: mad When pigs fly!
I"d like thinking that any conversation would exclude religion...and for the most part it does. At the same time when something is said over a darn movie or whatever, she brings up her religious belief and I'm not playing by those rules according to the WTBTS that she still believes has the only truth.
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Been a Rough Few Weeks - My daughter has dyslexia
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offlinepalmel1234
Been a Rough Few Weeks - My daughter has dyslexia
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Oct 16 14 11:12 PM
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I've been wanting to make a post for a few weeks now, but my job has gotten so busy I have not had a lot of free time lately to compose a post,
so here it is, 2:30 am my time and I can't sleep.
It's been rough these past few weeks. I have been suspecting for some time now that my daughter Karen, age 9, is dyslexic.
In the beginning of September I had her evaluated at the Medical University of South Carolina and the psychiatrist did a full battery of tests on her.
She confirmed my fears. Karen is dyslexic and also has ADHD.
I have been having a hard time sleeping since I got the diagnosis for Karen. I went through this with my daughter Amber and her
auditory processing disorder. The hardest thing is dealing with the school system, they don't want to provide your child with any
kind of services, even if your child is struggling.
Last year Karen was promoted to 3rd grade but with deficiencies. This basically means her scores in reading were so bad that she
should have repeated second grade but the school felt it was better to promote her.
I met with the school today to request they consider Karen for special education due to her learning disability,
and at the meeting the school psychiatrist was like, well, I would like to wait a little longer and see how she does.
She is getting interventions and she is making progress.
WTF? smiley: mad She's making progress but she was barely promoted to 3rd grade? smiley: mad
I said "No, we can't wait any longer. Karen has been getting interventions since the 1st grade for reading, I hired a private tutor that saw her for all of 2nd grade, I got her Hooked on Phonics. She is still below grade level in reading so obviously what's been done is not working and she needs to be evaluated to see if she qualifies for special education." (For those of you unfamiliar with US public school system, when a child is struggling in school, first they get interventions, which is basic level tutoring in a small group of 3-4 kids. But some kids, like those with learning disabilities, they need more intense, specialized help to deal with their specific issues, This specialized help is called Special Education.)
This night when I got home I told my boyfriend Patton about the meeting with Karen's school. He meant well, but his attitude was
like, look, this is the public school system, you can't control this, so you need to stop worrying.
He is upset because he sees my anxiety level this past few weeks, he knows I get up at night and go into the spare bedroom to watch TV because I can't sleep at night. He is concerned, but the way he expressed his concern - cold, logical, and like, "there's nothing you can do so why worry" only made my anxiety worse.
I KNOW I'm doing everything I can for Karen. I have hired a private tutor that specializes in dyslexia. It is going to cost $500 a month for the specialized tutoring that Karen is going to need. But I was hoping I could get this specialized tutoring through the public school system so I wouldn't have to pay out of pocket for it, but it looks like that is an unrealistic expectation. After some more back and forth the school did agree to evaluate Karen to see if she qualifies for special education, but even if she does qualify, it's becoming obvious to me that they will not be able to provide Karen with everything that she needs. Sure, they'll do SOME things for her, and they'll give her SOME tutoring, but it will not be one on one, and the tutor will not be trained in how tutor dyslexic kids.
Okay, so I have to manage my expectations of what the public school system will provide for Karen . . . But let me process this, let me go through the emotions . . . deal with them so I can move on. Saying things like, "well, they're going to put her in special education, so you got what you wanted, right" does not help. I told him that I need him to empathize with what I'm feeling, if nothing more than, "I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated by what the school psychiatrist said. Don't worry, Karen is smart, she will not wind up working a dead end job." and that would lower my anxiety level so much, instead of telling me I can't control this so I should stop worrying.
Patton apologized. He says he wished he could afford to send Karen to the private school that specializes in teaching kids with dyslexia and other learning disabilities, but it is $27,000 a year, but we just can't afford it. And he is mad/frustrated about that.
His position at work is being eliminated, so he's worrying about that. He's having to try and find another position at his company, or look for work some where else. It's not that bad, he has a lot of experience so it shouldn't be a problem finding another job, but he's still stressed about making sure he has a job so he can pay the mortgage for the house we live in.
Thanks for listening. I know I haven't always contributed to this forum lately like I should, but I know the folks on here are good for virtual hugs and giving support when you need to vent.
I have to say, I worry so much about my girls and their education and this is something Patton doesn't understand. I've explained to him how JWs view higher education but I don't think he understands how important it is for me that my girls go to college. I have always resented the fact that I was not able to go to college after high school because "Armageddon was right around the corner". I finally got my associate's degree at age 36, but it was not easy, working full time and going to school while taking care of two girls by myself.
I don't want that for my girls. I want them to go to college, get the job they want, and not just get job they HAVE to get because they don't have any options.
There were so many jobs I couldn't apply for because I didn't have a college degree and I don't want that for my girls.
I don't want them living pay check to pay check, I don't want them struggling the way I have.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
Last Edited By: palmel1234 Oct 17 14 6:48 AM. Edited 3 times.
status offlineFiguringitout20
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I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Men often do get very matter of fact, when what you need is empathy and support. And I understand the feeling of wanting to do everything you can for your children. That is very impressive that you obtained your associates degree while raising kids. I started college when I was 30, but I didn't get as far as a degree as life events got in the way.
I spent a lot of sleepless nights worrying about my son last year when he was first diagnosed with ADD. We ended up putting him on medicine. That was a hard decision for me, but it has helped him greatly in not falling completely behind in school. Currently he is probably right at average. So, I don't currently have quite the same struggle as you do. But I also worry about how to help my boy successful enough to go to college. My husband just says he's smart and will be fine. I don't like it when my hubby helps him with harder homework because he basically does it for him rather than helping him understand it. It seems my husband is content with him being a C student, whereas I want him to do better than that so he can go to college. I know he's very capable in a lot of ways, but he also needs extra one on one help.
I hope you're able to get all the help your daughter needs to be successful. I know a lot about the struggles of ADD/ADHD and feel your pain there. Lots of ((hugs)) to you.
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Thanks Figuring. Yeah, between Karen's issues and Patton losing his job it's been kind of stressful.
I hear ya on the medication. I put off medicating my older daughter for the longest, but now I realize it's the only thing that really helps her focus.
It seems my husband is content with him being a C student, whereas I want
him to do better than that so he can go to college.
See, that's the attitude the school has, and it's so frustrating. I don't want my girls to just "get by"
I want them to live up to their FULL potential.
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If you threaten to sue to get the school to provide what your daughter needs, you'll get it. And you won't have to sue, just threaten. You can also make the threat to the school board, bring them into it. Whenever a school district hears the threat of a lawsuit, the parents usually get what they want for their child. You can also sue, or threaten to sue, to make the school district cover the costs for her special tutoring. In my area, school districts have to pay the tuition for private schools if the school district can't provide what is needed for a special needs child. The law requires them to provide what is needed for the child, and if they can't, they have to pay the tuition of the school that does provide it. I think you should talk to a lawyer if you can afford it, or threaten to if you can't afford it and see what results you get.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Palm- My heart goes out to you knowing it's not easy. I'm very fortunate that it was not my son or grandchildren but I do understand the struggle many parents haveThrow heart kisses
When hubby was working for the school system, he met a young lady [and we know her grandparents] that whenever she would see him got all excited because of the love he would express.
She had special teachers and in now going to high school where everyone loves her. This is a child that has it worse than ADHD...this girl could not even get out of a wheel chair, wore diapers, had a feeding tube and yet she has thrived.
Stay strong, do whatever you need, knowing things change from state to state. Our prayers go out to you and your family. Love, John and Lin
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Thanks Linda, for your hugs and prayers.
Hey Cathy, I know I've also heard that schools have to pay for a private school if the school district doesn't provide what's needed.
Thing is, Karen's dyslexia is only moderately bad, and she's smart enough to compensate for it, so if the public school does put Karen in special education
and provide her with some services, I don't think our case is strong enough to claim that what the public school is doing is not "good enough".
Plus, I know this sounds cowardly and weak, but I honestly don't know if I can go through the stress of a lawsuit.
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I know what you mean, Palmel. It's not easy advocating for your kids. I hope you get her the help she needs. I would suggest asking them to pay for her tutoring and maybe just mention the possibility of getting a lawyer, just to maybe get them to give in.
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Or better yet: This is what I was advised when we decided to put our son in a private school for the deaf. He was accepted on scholarship, so we didn't have to pay tuition, but we lived many miles away. The principal of the private school told me to ask the district to pay his tuition, then to tell them that I'd settle for them paying me mileage fees. That way we got compensated for the four hours a day I had to take him back and forth to school. They did agree to pay me mileage and it was a great financial help. So maybe tell your school district that you'd like tuition for a private school, but that you'd settle for them paying for her tutoring. It might work.
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Mel honey ....... you are doing well. You are worrying about your girls and that's the sign of a TRUE loving mum ...... so don't get cross ... be firm and get what you want!
My sister was diagnosed with Dyslexia when she was in high school. At that time she was finally tested properly (it was the 70's .... not much cooperation from teaching staff back then) after my parents pushed (not bad for jdubs!) ........ and she had a 'reading age' of a Year 3 or in age ... she was 14 and had the reading age of a 7 or 8 year old. NOT good. She wasn't put into specialist reading classes and somehow she struggled her way through high school. She's not an academic type of person ... but very very clever and intelligent, even if she would disagree with me.
Years later she put herself through the local technical college in an Adult Literacy course. She also had her dyslexia tested via the Irlin Institute .... a group who test what colours work better for the dyslexia ... and they provide coloured lenses for glasses. My sister cannot focus properly when she reads black writing on white paper .... but responds better to black on some colours. Also in my sisters case ..... when she looked at the page in front of her or even the black/white board ...... the words would be moving from side to side and up and down. To get a picture of that ...... she got me to hold a paper in front of my eyes and moved it the way she saw it. No wonder she couldn't see anything!!!! The glasses have been amazing for her and she still wears them today at the tender age of 51! She started out with really bright orange lenses and now she has a pale rose colour. They work for her and the determination she has always had NOT to use the dyslexia as an excuse ...... is inspirational.
Because of my sister's learning issues ..... I was pretty focused with how my boys reading/writing would be. Both boys were reading fluently from a very early age ...... but I am fortunate and so are they in that they are not dyslexic. Carson, as you know, has always had issues with anxiety, perfectionism and being 'delightfully different' as his developmental paediatrician commented on when he was five. We have had a very long and winding road to get Carson to where he is now but it's been hard work and I have had to count to ten many times with school staff in the past ...... with the main aim being to make sure we get what's right for Carson, we cooperate with the staff and we have them cooperate with us. He is off to high school next year and we have been prepping him for that since the end of 2011!
Because of my sister's learning issues ..... I have always volunteered at my boys various primary schools (we move a lot) with literacy programs and even though I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination ...... I am able to identify kids with dyslexia and other learning issues, and I always go straight to the teacher and let them know what I think the problem is. I've had a few teachers in the past who have that 'you're not a teacher what would you know' attitude ... but when they're like that, I just bypass them and go to the Principal! The staff at Carson's current school are amazing ... except for the useless cow he had in Year 4.
Do you know if Karen has issues reading black print on white paper? Maybe you can check ...... and then buy some coloured cellophane sheets and lay them one at a time over a sheet of printed paper ..... and see if that makes a difference for her. One boy I told the teacher about ..... was struggling all the time with his reading and I was told he was lazy. When I asked him about what he saw when he read the pages ... as he kept moving the book to an odd angle and then would move it again and again .... he said that the words were 'jumping all over the page and they won't stop'. When I asked if he'd told his mum and dad ... or the teacher ... he said 'yes but they didn't listen to me'. I told his teacher what he said and then suggested he be tested for dyslexia. He was tested and he had dyslexia! I then told his mum about the Irlin lenses .... and she swung into action and he came to school six weeks later (takes a while to order them here) with pale blue glasses. Made a huge difference for him. He was only 8 then and that was back in 2006 ... I wonder how he's going now!
I'm not saying the Irlin lenses are a fix it for everyone ..... but if you can identify what the words do for Karen, it may help you find another alternative to how she learns. Kids are very adaptable.
As for Patton's work situation ........ don't despair too much honey, he will find something else soon and you will both work through this. Men don't always come across as sensitive when it comes to being a child's main advocate ..... you do what's right for you and don't take any no's for answers!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Oh I understand what you mean, Cathy – use it as a negotiation tactic. That’s a good idea, thanks.
Thanks for the tips, Rhonda. I’ve heard of that technique of using colored plastic overlays before and we're going to try that. It’s too bad your sister wasn’t diagnosed until she was in high school. I am glad we are finding this out now. The sooner you catch it, the less time it takes for the child to catch up.
Karen too suffers from perfectionism. No idea where she gets that from. think
It's a constant struggle but I keep reminding her so long as she does her best that's all that matters.
I've learned the hard way not to be so hard on myself. Sometimes I catch myself and have to reel it back in
and say "Melanie, you're not Superwoman, you can't do it all". So I'm sure Karen gets this perfectionism and
drive to do everything right from me.
She gets worried if she misses school work. The other night she was up at 2am in the morning
because she was worried about her spelling test. smiley: frown
We BOTH have to work on not expecting so much of ourselves.
I’m so glad things are going well for Carson, but I’m sure it was a long road.
Patton went on an interview last week, and he believes he should hear something today, so fingers crossed for that. smiley: wink
Thanks for your support.
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Last Edited By: palmel1234 4 days ago. Edited 1 times.
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I know ALL about that perfectionist trait thing myself Mel ...... and the insomnia my little man is starting to cultivate too. I tend to go give him an extra long snuggle until he falls asleep on the nights there's too much going on in his little head and it keeps him awake. Last night just as he was starting to relax (we were back to back in his bed) .... his body did the familiar jumping and twitching thing ... and I kept my breathing nice and steady. Eventually his body tunes into mine and he falls asleep, his little body nice and calm. It's horrible worrying about so many things and yet not knowing really what they are!
If Karen does the late night thing again ...... be a little firmer with her and let her know she can catch up in the morning and it's better to do that, as it will mean she's rested up well from the night before and her brain will be rested enough to soak in the information she needs. I've had to do that with Carson many times ....... and now I just look at him when he's stressing .... and will smile whilst saying 'it's okay Carson ...... you will always do your best because you always do ... now it's time to relax and chill sweet cheeks'. And he does! It's not easy for kids like Karen and Carson to turn off the worry wart tap ...... but with encouragement and lots of hugs, it can be done.
Fongers eer crissed fir Pittan .... lot is knew of ho gots tha jib!!!!! haha
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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((Mel))
there is always so much going on in our lives that we just deal with, and doesn't find its way onto the board here!! I am so sorry that things have been so emotionally draining for you recently........I know how much you have invested in your girls, especially with our knowledge of how hard life can be without a decent education......but (as always) you are doing everything you can to fight for the very best for them!!
At least now you have a diagnosis you know what you are dealing with...........not that many years back, so many difficulties like adhd and dyslexia went undiagnosed......and kids were just treated as 'stupid'.............there was a programme on tv over here the other week talking about dyslexia, and some parents have only now been able to identify that they too suffered with it as children, as a result of seeing their own kids diagnosed!!
It must also be a tough time for Patton.........worrying about his work future, whilst wanting to do everything he can for you and the girls!! Just remember that although technically they are 'your girls' Mel, he loves you and them very much and wants the best for you all, even if sometimes he may not understand the background that causes us to be so 'obsessed' with learning from our own pasts....he is a born 'provider', and as such he will hate being unable to give what he sees as the best.........but together you are so much stronger as a unit to deal with any crap that life throws as us, so make use of that strength and lean on him when you need to!!
You are a great mother who fights for her kids like a lioness........and whatever their future holds they have the essential ingredients for success because they are supported and surrounded by love...
Be thinking of you all...............and I send my love
Sam xxx
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlinepalmel1234
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Thanks Rhonda for the tip. It’s hard for me, because it’s hard for me to turn off MY worry wart tap as well! LOL. But I try my best, even though my body doesn’t always cooperate.
Thanks Sam. You are right, at least we have a diagnosis NOW instead of years from now. And she will get the tutoring she needs, starting tomorrow.
I do have good news regarding Patton’s job. He interviewed for a different position at the same company and they offered it to him on Monday. Same salary, but their bonus structure is different so he might bring home a little bit more. So that’s good news!
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
Last Edited By: palmel1234 3 days ago. Edited 1 times.
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Yay!! That's the first good news............now its onwards and upwards!! You must both be so relieved............now with that out of the way you can concentrate on the other worries, and and hopefully they will be just as positive smiley: smile
Your girls are so lucky to have you batting for them.........but remember to look after your own emotional well-being too!! xxxx
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Thanks Sam.
I have some updates. I was able to get in touch via email with an expert on dyslexia, Susan Barton. She advises parents not to bother fighting with school system to provide tutoring, since public schools will not be able to provide the specialized tutoring dyslexics needs. Her advice is to get private, one on one tutoring in an Othon-Gillingham method for at least two sessions a week. She said only ask for accommodations from the school until your child catches up.
So that's what I'm going to do. Karen is getting the private tutoring at the recommended intensity. If Karen gets into special education at her school, I will ask that they provide Orton-Gillingham based tutoring. They'll most likely say no or offer basic tutoring instead. I will then argue that the tutoring they provide will not meet Karen's specific needs and since they're unable to provide what she needs they need to pay for Karen's private tutoring. The worst that could happen is I don't get reimbursed, but it doesn't hurt to try.
I do feel much better now. Karen went to her first tutoring session last night. As soon as we left the tutor Karen told me, "Mom, I like this tutoring so much better than the other tutors! I can't WAIT to go back!" Big Grin That night she showed me the game the tutor played with her called Snatch. It's a card deck with made up words like "vat" and "bab", so the child can't guess at what the word is. The child has to sound out each letter of the word, then read the word.
I tell you, I almost cried. For the first time, I saw my baby sounding out words!! Karen has consistently confused the b and d sounds, but last night she caught herself and corrected herself each time. She said playing Snatch was better than watching TV. smiley: eek
Today I called my dad. He still calls and talks to the girls on Monday nights. I told him how the first tutoring session went. I told him that I could hear Karen laughing all the way down the hallway. He said that was great that Karen enjoyed the tutoring so much. He then starts to talk about what Awake article said about the desire to learn. smiley: sick LOL! Oh well, he couldn't help himself, I suppose. smiley: smile
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Last Edited By: palmel1234 A day ago. Edited 1 times.
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That's awesome Mel :) Except for the Awake article part, but yeah they can't help it lol.
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Mel, you are an amazing parent.
Do check out the 'special education' a bit more before you demand that you daughter be put in it. Here in Canada, special education classes can be detrimental if the learning disability isn't that severe. Once a child is labelled 'special needs' within the school system, there could be barriers put in place that might be a hindrance rather than a help...not sure exactly what I am trying to to say here...it has been a while since I worked in the system and the work I did do with learning disabilities wasn't in the primary education system. However, if she requires a special needs class, of course she should be in it.
Do not worry so much, Mel. One of the things you could look into is if there are any summer camps or such around in your area. I have a nephew who, many years ago, was diagnosed with dyslexia and he attended a couple camps during his summer months that gave him the tools to deal with his dyslexia - and his ADHD. He graduated high school, joined the Army, and is now a major in the Canadian Army. He did very well for himself.
And don't worry so much about your daughter making it to university - when I was still teaching in university, I had a few students with special requirements related to learning disabilities and the university had a policy for special needs students where their needs were accommodated. One semester I taught the entire class with no overhead lights because of a student that could not tolerate the fluorescent lights and I have had students that used colored transparencies over their written material or ones that required extra time for testing and assignments.
Don't worry...oh, I said that before, didn't I?
Your daughter is going to be just fine. Seriously.smiley: smile
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Thanks irreligious.
Diane, special education is different here in the states. Being labelled "special needs" just means you get extra help or accommodations to level the playing field. smiley: wink
Thanks for the words of encouragement. The place that Karen is getting her tutoring at does offer classes during the summer. Again, they're pretty pricey, but I will try and do what I can. And I'm not so worried now. I feel better after getting the additional information from the dyslexia expert. I know now hoping to get help through the public school system is not going to happen. It's really a shame dyslexia is such a common learning disability, but the public schools are not willing or even able to provide the correct kind of help these kids need.
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Great update Mel .... I'm really pleased that Karen is enthusiastic to learn more as that is most of the battle won already!
It's very common for dyslexic kids to get the b and d mixed up in words AND it's common for most kids when they're learning to read for the first time. I've been helping with specialist literacy classes since Conor was in Year 1 (so long ago now) ...... and it helped immensely already having a good grasp on kids with dyslexia and other learning difficulties. With the b and d mystery ....... one of the teachers I worked with .... said that the word 'bed' was a great way of helping kids to work the b and d out.
When you look at the word 'bed' in written form ...... you can easily get the kids to SEE a bed in their minds by saying 'can you see the word really looks like a bed ..... the b is the head (or top end) of the bed ... and the d is the foot (or bottom end) of the bed ...'. The kids will look and say 'yes'. Then you can remind them that when you see a b ... it's the head (or top end) of the bed and you can see the little pillow ................. when you see the d in a word ... you know it's not a b because it is facing back the other way like the foot (or bottom end). It may not make sense how I'm explaining it but it does work.
I bit like getting kids to learn left from right ................... if you get them to hold up their hands in front of them and drop their thumbs down but keep their fingers together ... left is the side where the thumb down and fingers up forms a neat 'L' shape. Works a treat too!
If you can afford to get extra help for Karen now ..... the money spent will well and truly be worthwhile. Had my sister been given help earlier ... I honestly believe her confidence levels would have soared and she wouldn't have stayed living with my folks!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Passage from my future book about my Witness experience- Explicit.
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offlineApostateProud
Passage from my future book about my Witness experience- Explicit.
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Aug 23 14 5:28 AM
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Hi All,
Over the past few years I have been writing letters to family member and other Witnesses to help me cope with their absence in my life. I want to put those, combined with other first person passages, together to create a book about what it was like growing up in the Witness cult and how hard it has been to recover. Last night I found myself very upset and hurt but I couldn't find the words to express myself to my husband so I decided to write and this is what came out: (Explicit)
Sometimes I wish I could forget my whole childhood. Forget every door I ever knocked on. Every meeting ever attended. Every Halloween class party I had to leave school early to avoid. Every birthday that passed with nothing more than a casual mention that I had indeed survived another year. Forget every second in my father's presence. I'd never have to feel that burning, blurry sensation behind my eyes when I picture his face. I wish I could forget that they ever existed so it wouldn't hurt that they aren't here now. But my past has made me who I am, and despite my parent's opinions, I think I've turned out pretty damn good. Fuck them for not seeing that. Fuck them for abandoning me. Fuck them for treating me like scum. Fuck them for being so self-centered that they can't be happy for me becoming my own person. Fuck Fuck Fuck! I want this goddamn pain to leave. I just want to stop fucking hurting. They don't want me and to be honest I don't want shit to do with them. They are a bigger disappointment to me than I will ever be to them. Yet they've left this empty hole in my chest and when I really let myself think of them, that hole expands until it feels like my chest will cave in. The darkness of the memory encompasses my soul. I would do anything I could to never feel the fog inside my head, the leftover remains of 18 years of brainwashing, 18 years of traumatizing memories, I can't decide if I should block out or acknowledge. They pop up like flashbacks of a bad acid trip. They grab my head and take control as I scream inside "let me free." And when it dissolved I'm left with those same dark emotions I never understood and still don't fully yet. My parents don't love me, and I can't understand why. I know why. They are in a cult and won't accept me if I'm not in it. I can regurgitate that like any other Witness line. The words are emotionless, a programmed response. I cannot truly comprehend how this could be though. How has it been 5 years without them? How can they truly disown me? And how could I be so hurt by the rejection of two people I'm so disgusted with? I don't know if my heart will ever really accept the situation. My only hope is that time will help fade the memories and the pain. Pain will fade to memories, and memories will be replaced with brighter ones, and I will finally move on.
This is my first time sharing my writing with anyone other than my husband and sister in law, but I think I'm ready to start sharing my story. Let me know what you think, constructive criticism is always welcomed!
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Well fuck me rigid AP ..... you just let it out girlfriend!
Even though you don't think so, your parents do in fact love you ..... they've just put their religion first and forgot where their true loyalties SHOULD lay!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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I know two jw women who have never seen their grandchildren, by choice, because they are shunning their grown kids. I wish the cult would self destruct, it's terrible what it does to people and families.
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Good for you AP!! It does help to write things down, cos sometimes when you see what you have been through in black and white, you realise why we will always be asking the same questions!
You are also correct that the pain doesn't every totally leave you, it can rear its head at any time.........but we have to learn to live with it because only those who are causing this pain can alter the situation
I hope that writing has been, and is, cathartic for you..........and if you get around to making it into a book, then positive can come out of negative...
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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I've been writing 'letters' in a journal to my daughter (still in JW) for about a decade now. Not very many but over the years they add up. I was re-reading some of what I wrote 10 years ago.........I hold to everything I said then. Maybe someday when I'm gone she will read what I wrote.
Apostataproud, nothing you wrote is wrong or out of place. The JW religion promotes bullying and bullies. Cussing them out in a written tirade is cathartic even if it doesn't change anything. Hang in there.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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Ap itʻs not that your parents donʻt love you. They CANʻT love you. Cult rules are cult rules. Break those cult rules and you pay the price. Buried in them is love for you. But to even acknowledge that love is equivalant to pissing on Jehovahs face ! So they canʻt !
status offlineApostateProud
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That's very well put! Sometimes I wish I could have disowned them first. They take my not talking to them as obeying my discipline when really I just don't want shit to do with them. Thanks for all the encouragement all!
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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AP - Welcomesmiley: wink
I'm also one that writes because it helps me keep things in perspective. I wish to have many letters written many years ago but it was a part of my recovery for just writing and never sending.
I've found that the knowledge gained through the years didn't change - it was just my approach to how I write.
"Explicit" that was sorta funny because you will hone your writing skills for publication - because, well, write what you want here but publishers will dictate how they want things.
You might be among some of the others that are published re: their JW experience. Keep at the work and learning. Love, Lin
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Hey there AP, I've seen some of your posts and am glad to see you on here. You seem very happy as to where you are in your life now despite what your upbringing was within the JW. I really came to this site to share my story, be an open book about EVERYTHING I know (whether it is explicit or not!). It has made me so happy to read and talk with others who have the truth about the "truth". For me my Dad is the one who won't talk to me anymore and sticks strong to the doctrines of associating with family or anyone DF'd, (me and 1 other sister), yet all my other siblings who faded out he won't even talk to since they left and supposedly don't know what they are doing anymore. I am lucky with my Mom though, I can talk to her anytime I want and she is always happy to hear from me (behind Dad's back of course...)
Always remember your parents love you since you are their daughter. I have to tell myself that a lot even to this day. I have only been out officially for 2 years but my partners still remind me that I need to keep in contact with them. Keep up the good work and look forward to reading more of your experiences.
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My parents don't love me, and I can't understand why. I know why. They are in a cult and won't accept me if I'm not in it.
The environmental reasons why your parents don't love you are actually immaterial on your road to recovery.
What is important, and what will help you with dealing with the pain and processing the pain of being unloved, is to fully embrace the concept that you are not to blame.
This is not your fault - the shame and guilt belongs to them - it is not yours.
You can release the pain - just let it go.
It really, truly is that simple.
Just let the pain go.
You are not to blame.
You are blameless - and free.
Alice laughed…
"One can’t believe impossible things!"
"I daresay you haven’t had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
- Lewis Carroll Alice in Wonderland
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Birdwoman2-
We are not to blame! Another thing people want doing is for using "Shame." OMG, that topic goes a long way into recovering from religious abuse. Thank you for responding to AP with your input smiley: happy
What's ironic is because I've talked for years about writing a book re: religious abuse, and had someone write me a letter re: his experiences with the PTL Club in the Jim and Tammy days...and he encouraged me to write my story; it gets sorta crazy at times because life took me into different directions.
As a hopeful author and things change from day to day - I'm interested in what you might share with me for getting published because I have a story to tell.
Then sets in the thing about how all of us have suffered due to that religion and I'm not special because we have all suffered.
I might be a 'Grandma Moses' that did her paintings while in her 90's. I might be one that just continues writing. Meanwhile, you keep at your studies and writing for publication and make sure we all get a copy of your book.
Love, Lin
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Hope this helps
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offline3d808
Hope this helps
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Thanks 3d, sunlight, clouds, mountains and music...ahhhhh.
Faith in yourself and the universe is a lot better than fearing Jehovah, armageddon and Satan.
Surely no one is going to argue about the superiority of love?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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This was a really nice video, thank you for sending it. I have been trying to formulate my spirituality. And make sense of things.
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PREACH JIM!! OPPOSISTE OF LOVE IS FEAR! Sounds like Jim dabbled in A Course in Miracles too. I love how he broke down not having Hope... its a begger... How True! Who knew my favorite comedian growinng up would help in my spiritual journey as well. Truman show. 23. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind...
Thanks 3D!!
PeAcE n LoVe
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They just don't see it
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I posted this to a dubbie facebook friend who was a surrogate Mom (Don't ask me why she still is my friend cause I haven't a clue).
Hey, I just wanted to say I read your rant about the lady that gave you grief about being a Surrogate. I agree that you did a great thing but just wanted to be sure you realized that you might want to keep a lower profile about it since the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is against it. I wouldn't like to see you lose friends and family over it. Just sayin.
Today
Thanks but the faithful slave has relaxed their ideas a little. In a 2012 magazine they said that IVF and harvesting the woman's eggs and freezing them was to be left up to the couple's conscience. They are still against the husband "sharing his seed" but I'm sure in time the light will shine brighter and it will be more clear. Pretty much everyone knows that I was a surrogate mother but I was disfellowshipped at the time so no one really judges me for it. Matter as a fact some sisters in the hall ask me questions about it. So it isn't something that I'm hiding. Most people are pretty open minded about it.
I just don't understand why they feel that there must be approval for something that they believe is right. She is passionate about this so I figured I would warn her about sharing with her dubbie friends. Guess I need not to worry. I really didn't think that they had approved of surrogate Moms.
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" I really didn't think that they had approved of surrogate Moms."
Well, InspecterD, I don't think they did. In the 70's I remembered that they were telling women what type of birth control THEY approved of, as well as what type of operations and medical procedures they could have. But there goes that Jarhoover again....confused as always, changing his mind, and cleaning up the mess he's made. Aren't they "blessed" to be in such a progressive organization? Sarcasm
Last Edited By: cangie Sep 14 14 11:07 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCacky
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I would think that if the man can't share his seed with anyone but his wife, then a woman wouldn't be able to take on a seed and egg from someone else. I'd bet the org is against it. She was df'd at the time, so they wouldn't have bothered with her about it.
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Hmmmm .... so sharing a man's 'seed' is not considered adultery anymore? Well there's a blessing in disguise! It's mind boggling how often the 'faithful slave' can make amendments to the rules and regs ... and the ever faithful sheeples just follow on behind .... not paying attention or at least not making it known publicly that they're paying attention!
They don't see it Dee ..... because they're trained not to see it!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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but I'm sure in time the light will shine brighter and it will be more clear.
Whoever first coined that phrase in order to give the borg unlimited time to re-think their crappy doctrines must be laughing their heads off!!
Who, other than the brainwashed (or the despotic gb), would have believed that this derisory 'explanation' would keep the 'peasants' in line for lifetimes smiley: sick
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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My brother and sister
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offlineCacky
My brother and sister
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Oct 17 14 5:43 PM
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My brother is in his second year of fourth stage colon cancer. Based on my sister-in-laws facebook post (they live in another state), it sounds like they've come to the realization that he isn't going to make it. He's in the hospital right now, and I'm assuming they are going to send him home, stop the chemo and put him on hospice. That's just my assumption, but based on the facts, that's how it looks. And now I just learned this evening that my sister has been having blood in her stool and she's getting a colonoscopy Nov. 14. My dad was recently found to have cancer in his colon, but it was very small and they removed it, so he's fine now. Though he had a massive heart attack a year of so ago and had "significant" heart damage. I'm wondering if we have something genetic causing colon cancer in my family. I had a colonoscopy about a year ago and I was fine. But it's hard thinking of losing my brother, now maybe my sister, and worrying about my dad's bad heart. This is a bit much! Just felt like telling someone.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Hi Sweetie.
It's never easy but I've heard nothing but good things about Hospice.
You have a lot on plate at the moment with family...and all I can suggest is that you take care of yourself and know we're here for you. Love, Lin and JohnBeating heart
status offlineCacky
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Thanks, Linda.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
... big snuggles Cathy ((( snuggles of the big size ))) #3 [-]
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Beating heart my little pink beating heart is heading your way ... plus some of Throw heart kissesThrow heart kissesThrow heart kisses these too.
What dreadful news to find out about your brother, your sister and your dad. Bowel cancer is a dreadful illness that cannot always be cured ... but to find out it's perhaps in the family with another member as well, no wonder you're feeling a bit raw. There are some families where bowel and other cancers can be found in more than one person through the generations but you could always speak to your GP and ask for more information. I know that dietary changes can help when it comes to avoiding the onset of bowel cancer however if there's a family predisposition to it ...... you may need to find alternatives. We don't want you to get ill you know!
Big snuggles to you sweetness Group hug
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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Thank you, Rhonda. I imagine, if my sister does have it, too, then my doctor would do a colonoscopy more often, maybe every three years. My brother had passed his fine when he was fifty, then was diagnosed with 4th stage colon cancer when he was 55, before he had another one. My poor brother is not doing well at all. I sure hope my sister doesn't have it, too. One thing they have in common is that they were both heavy drinkers. My brother was an alcoholic, though he's been sober for thirty years, but he was very bad when he was drinking. And my sister has always been a heavy drinker. I've read that drinking can cause it. I'm guessing there was a predisposition and their drinking brought it on. I just sure hope my sister doesn't have it, too. She's one of those people in my life where, if something happened to her, things would never be the same. I care for my brother just as much, but he lives a half a continent away, so he's not a part of my regular life. But we keep in touch and we're close. Our whole family is close like that. It's just hard to think that maybe, by the time we're out of our fifties, two of the four of us will be gone. Not to mention my dad. And he doesn't handle this kind of thing well. No one else knows about my sister, and I don't think she'll tell anyone else about her symptoms until she gets some answers. After my brother, it would devastate my dad if my sister got it, too.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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(((BIG hugs))) Cathy.
I know pretty much exactly what you mean about losing siblings. I almost lost my big bro last month due to a quad roll over accident. My next younger brother has chronic leukemia. Leaves you feeling pretty helpless.
hang in there
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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My family just got together today. We all live here, my sister, her fiance, my other brother, sister-in-law, dad and step-mom. (My mom passed away four years ago.) We had a discussion about my brother, Tim. My dad, step-mom and brother Chris want to go out to Washington to see Tim. But so far Tim says they don't have to come out. He's still in the hospital and I'm sure the thought of having people out right now sounds overwhelming. My sister in law and I both said we felt Tim wouldn't make it to Christmas. Anyway, whenever they decide to go out there, I will stay at my dad's house to take care of their cats. My step mom misses out on traveling because she doesn't trust anyone to stay with the cats, but she'll have me. So I'll feel like I'm helping in a way by allowing my dad and step mom to see Tim. My step mom is very close to him. She says he reminds her of her son, in personality, and her only son died years ago in a motorcycle accident, so I want to make sure she gets out to see Tim before it's too late. I just saw Tim in June at his daughter's wedding. It was such a nice trip, all of us there together for the first time in many years. We had a great time out there, just being together. We are truly a close family. None of the jw crap. I was the only one who had become a jw. They're all glad I'm out.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Good Evening, Cathy Throw heart kisses
I can understand why you could take care of business with your brother, not having all the JW input! I'd bet they are happy you have left that filthy religion...and just get back to being a family because we know that religion is hateful.
Story: Years ago, just when 9ll was happening, our friend went to Wash for picking up her brother that was dying. At the time no one knew what the government would do with shutting down the highways.
It was not a happy situation but her brother spent the last few days in her home...that was a blessing for them.
Never give up hope even though you know what's around the corner.
My brother is dying from Aids....I've had to let go of a lot of things this year.What we never do is let go of the love for our family; even when some of us still have JW's spinning their story.
You will survive...it's our nature. Take Care, Lin
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Where in Washington State would you be? You can pm me but if I can get out to meet you and offer sone comfort I'd want to do That. Let me know , cacky, if younare in my neck of the woods. Sunday through Tuesday I am pretty free...I would drive to wherever in Washington....
Let me know.
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Thank you so much, Sharon. I may not get out there until the funeral, since I want my step mom to get to see him since I already got to see him in June. I would need to stay at my dad and step mom's to take care of their cats while they go out. But I'll keep you posted if I'm going to get out there. They live in Bremerton.
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(((Cathy)))
So sorry to hear about your brother.
It is so good of you to watch your dad and stepmom's cats so they can visit your brother.
I'm sure that is a big help and one less worry for them.
We'll be thinking of you.
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status offlineCacky
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Thanks Palmel and Linda, It's so true that we never let go of the love we have for our family. The love will continue even though the person is gone.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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It seems death doesn't escape any of us.
I got a call last night from my son that his cousin had died. Although she struggled for years with drug addiction, she was a very kind person and it's never easy losing someone at such a young age.
It's not the happiest of days...but we know it's about moving forward with our life that the JW cannot steal our love from each other; no matter the circumstances.
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Sorry to hear that Linda.
You are right, nothing can steal away the love we have for each other.
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My brother was supposed to get an epidural yesterday to help with pain relief, but then he began running a fever and it got up to 105. Now they are trying to find out what's causing the fever, before they do anything else. I haven't heard any more than that and am waiting for a facebook post update. I hope it comes soon, but it sounds like they have a lot going on so I'm guessing my sister in law just isn't up to keeping up with the posts. Of course I could call, but I don't want to disturb them right now, so I'll wait for the post since that, along with phone calls, is how we've been keeping up with him.
status offlineJourney
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Cathy, So much to go through, and really, when stuff like this happens, it isn't like a burden at all, but more like a sad weight. Keep us updated. Love and hugs to you.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Cathy ... you are being a brilliant sister by simply being there if you are needed. I do hope that the professionals find out what's creating the high temps with your bro ..... it must be such a scary time!
I'm now 52 myself and some of my family and friends of this generation seem to have their bits and pieces starting to drop off. I'll have to start checking the floor from now on ... in case I leave something behind!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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After the shock wore off from Tammy's death...it was for making more telephone calls and sending cards to her parents. Although they have been divorced for years they remained good friends and they both just lost a daughter that they loved unconditionally.
As I type, the family is dealing with much sorrow and I need writing something to my son because she was more of a sibling than a cousin because he grew up with her. It's not easy but it's something I can do long distance.
Remember to be grateful you don't need dealing with JW bullshit at a most stressful time and are able to help others.
Love, John and LinThrow heart kisses
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I'm sorry about your loss, Linda. My bro is still running a fever. They were supposed to put in the epidural today. My sis in law seems to post about 10 pm each day, so I'm waiting for tonight's post to see if there are any changes. Wish I could be there to visit him.
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I know you're probably feeling sick with worry, Cathy, but know that you're helping out taking care of the home front.
The fever must be from some kind of infection, I'm sure it's not uncommon when you have cancer to have complications like this.
Keep us posted,
sending big hugs your way
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His fever was the result of a kidney infection. The doctors told him that he has three to six months. It looks kind of to me like it's going to be three, the way things are going. We're all planning a trip out there to spend some time with him when the time is right for him. Thank you all for your support. I really appreciate it. It's funny how much of a shock it was to hear the doctors said that, when I knew it was going to be the case.
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My brother and sister
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status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Another story: Our dear beloved neighbors, aged into their late 70's buried a son years ago that committed suicide. They found his body.
This year they have another son that is dying from cancer and they've been there every step of the way...I cannot even imagine burying two children but they stay focused on the good things.
They will be celebrating their 58th anniversary next month and apparently been through more than I would never want dealing with. They are some of the most kind- heart persons I know.
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The doctors told him that he has three to six months. It looks kind of to me like it's going to be three, the way things are going.
I'm so sorry (((Cathy)))
It's funny how much of a shock it was to hear the doctors said that, when I knew it was going to be the case.
I know how you feel. For several years now I have suspected that my daughter Karen has dyslexia. Even though I had a big huge hunch I was right, when I got the actual diagnosis, I still felt like someone had punched me in my gut. I guess even though you have a feeling of what what's going to happen, having the experts tell you it's REALLY going to happen, makes it real. And maybe, a tiny part of me was hoping I was wrong, that there wasn't anything wrong with her, so to have it confirmed by someone else, means I can't ignore it anymore. I have to deal with it, whether I like it or not.
I had to give myself a few days to "grieve", so now you need to give yourself that as well.
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Thanks again, Linda and Palmel. We're starting a campaign in our family, asking all the aunts and cousins to send him cards. There are 23 cousins and several aunts left, only two uncles. We think that will cheer him up to have his mailbox full. It was my sister's idea. I'm going out today to find a suitable card for him. Out of all of those cousins, and including their spouses, my brother will be the first of us to go.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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I think that's a wonderful idea for sending cards. I've listened to enough people through the years and it does help.
Our prayers remain with you and the family...and of course your brother. God Bless. John and LinBeating heart
status offlineAndriaSyxx
... such sad news Cathy ... #25 [-]
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Cacky wrote:
His fever was the result of a kidney infection. The doctors told him that he has three to six months. It looks kind of to me like it's going to be three, the way things are going. We're all planning a trip out there to spend some time with him when the time is right for him. Thank you all for your support. I really appreciate it. It's funny how much of a shock it was to hear the doctors said that, when I knew it was going to be the case.
Hug big snuggly hugs Cathy. It will be a very sad time for you, your family and especially for your brother. It's always a shock hearing bad news regardless of how prepared you think you are. Know that you are not alone sweetheart Beating heart
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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My full story, Part 4: Escaping the JWs
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My full story, Part 4: Escaping the JWs
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So here we are at the end.
I detailed the tough times that followed my period of falsehood in the JW religion (link to part 3). I had a pretty tough judicial committee, followed by a time of uncertainty and frustration.
In early 2009 I wanted to explore options to escape the oppression. I had saved up a couple thousand dollars, working full time. My goal was to save up and move out, possibly with one of my best friends. We could abandon everybody together I thought. He wasn’t baptized so it might be easier for him. I had accepted I was going to disassociate myself but I didn’t know when. I didn’t want to do it close to my family. I wanted it to be as painless as possible for everybody involved. Nobody had an idea I was planning this. Just me.
In January, I pondered travelling for a month to just have a fun vacation and some personal time. Work was tediously slow in February. I could have easily gotten the time off. My dad was the boss, but that wasn’t even the issue. I told my parents I wanted to travel, possibly to Peru. Peru always had interested me, and I thought it would be cool to visit for a month and come back. They told me I couldn’t go alone, that people would think they were crazy. Once again the JW social oppression took over. My parents wouldn’t let me go because of the court of public opinion.
So I held back on the idea, but kept researching it. Then the company I was working with, and that my dad was running, went belly up. The crisis was in full force, and hit Detroit area harder than any part of the USA I’d contest. Jobs were few and far between. I couldn’t find hardly any work at all. I got a couple contract jobs working with computer repair, but nothing stable because I didn’t have any degree. Anymore if you want some job you have to have a degree, which I didn’t because the JWs didn’t really promote higher education. Plus on top of that, I hated the system too. I didn’t think it made sense to get a degree for something I could already do.
After a couple months of looking for work and collecting unemployment and being mostly broke, I noticed my savings were starting to disappear. I wasn’t going to let that happen. I started looking for alternative options. I read about people teaching English in other countries and making good money. Peru seemed like the perfect spot again. Low cost of living, good paying jobs, easy to get to, good visa policies. Lots of positives.
So I took a walk and talked with my best friend in the local mall. I told him my idea: Move to Peru, live there for a while, leave the witnesses there, and fall off the grid. He liked it. That day I bought travel books, a Spanish dictionary, some maps and luggage and such. I came home with all this stuff and told my parents to sit down and talk.
My mother went into shock for a while. She didn’t really talk to me for a couple weeks. My dad was more indifferent. He just said if I moved that was my decision. He never explicitly said if I could come back or not, but it seemed like he’d rather I not almost.
After a couple weeks my mother softened up and came home with some hair product for me to use (she’s a hair stylist). That was a good sign. I bought a one way flight and a new laptop and everything I’d need such as vaccinations, extra clothes, the works.
I arrived in Peru on June 23rd 2009. I started out by living in a small house which had rooms for rent. It was in a good area and I liked it. Within my first week I met a girl, lost my virginity, and ended up going out with that girl for almost 6 months. She was cute and didn’t speak English. I learned Spanish practicing with her in those months. It has since been perfected.
My mother told my dad to come here shortly after I arrived. So knowing that he would be there to check on me, I still had to keep up appearances with the JWs. I found the local congregation in Peru. Of course, it was all in Spanish but I managed. I prepared comments, did service, everything I would have done in the USA. I requested my publisher card be transferred to Peru. This took some time. The idea was to disassociate myself in Peru so that it wouldn’t be broadcast much in the USA. My dad came down and saw me participating in Peru. He even handed out a magazine out in service like a child which had me laughing. Its funny how you can be the best elder but when everybody speaks another language you drop down to a 6 year old in level.
That was probably the last time I saw my dad happy. It was a nice week he spent here with me. I really didn’t know the city well so he didn’t get the best tour, but we saw a lot together. It was fun and really our first time in another country. But he could see I was safe and in a good area, with JWs around.
Of course, JWs are universally the same. My ‘secret’ girlfriend in Peru was also discovered by a young brother in the hall. He saw us in a park holding hands. I managed to BS my way out of it in broken Spanish. But people were wary of me. I made almost all the meetings and would get the latest literature. When I’d call back home I’d talk about it with my family. It seemed like I was better than I was in the USA. In reality it was just much easier to be a fraud from a distance, like that Kenyan guy who sends you an email saying you’re his family and you’ve inherited a bunch of land/money. Something like that.
Things were going good. In October my card had arrived to Peru, but had to go through the local branch office to organize me. I was technically in another halls territory but this hall had a guy who spoke English so I asked to stay there.
In the meantime, I was having a blast. I went out to parties at night 3 times a week. I was learning salsa, drinking my liver off, and just having a ball. I managed to keep collecting unemployment. I planned on getting a job in a few months but I wanted to live it up a few months. You can imagine how it felt being free after so much time locked up in that shark cage.
My publisher card was set, I was announced as a publisher in the Spanish Jesus Maria Congregation of Peru. This was in November. I was ready to pull the trigger on the religion, but then something worse happened.
My parents got divorced. It really came out of left field. Here was my father, an Elder for 20 years, and my mother, an off and on full time pioneer with several years of full time service, now getting divorced. My mother had cheated. I had an inkling that things at home weren’t going well but never thought it would get this out of hand. I couldn’t bring myself to drop my metaphorical Nagasaki bomb after my mom dropped Hiroshima. My dad couldn’t take it I figured. Plus there was my sister who felt abandoned by me already, as we had become close friends in the last year. I managed to replace her best friend who I dated and lost. We were practically best friends, my move to Peru definitely hurt her.
My mother was disfellowshipped, which secretly made me happy knowing I may have somebody to talk to in the future. My father was pretty devastated as was my sister. I flew back home to see everybody again. I had been in Peru for 4 months. I decided to tell everybody that I was going to stay in Peru for good. Although many elders pleaded with me to stay (one even told me I could be a spiritual pillar for the family, which made me laugh), I told them my place was helping people in the 3rd world. I couldn’t keep living a lie after experiencing life for the first time.
I went back, said goodbye to everybody. It would be the last time I saw my family in a friendly state.
Things in Peru were going well. I had a job, started teaching English and making some money. Using the extra income from unemployment I got a degree online to support my newfound career.Of course I had to miss Tuesday meetings and that didn’t sit super well with the congregation. But they understood I didn’t have family here and had to support myself. I planned on waiting a few more months to let my family know the truth. My mother didn’t come back to meetings, and legalized the divorce.
Unfortunately one of my friends from the new congregation, one I thought was a pretender, had a sudden arrival of conscience. He knew of my fun-tivities in Peru. And of course to get baptized he felt the need to spill the beans. My dad heard of it shortly thereafter. He called me and asked if the things he heard were true. I told him they were, and that I’d send him a nice email soon after.
I wrote a long letter, somewhat like this series of posts, but of course more personal. I explained all of my feelings, every sin I committed that they never knew of, and all of my general views. My dad was hurt and my sister shocked, my mother too was surprised.
I submitted my letter of resignation to the congregation in Peru. I disappeared. I moved to a new home to avoid contact from the JWs. They announced my disassociation in the USA too, although I didn’t want them too it was a recommendation from the Peruvian congregation.
Since then, I’ve been living in Peru still. I kept phone contact with my dad a little bit. My sister after a few months, told me not to call anymore. My dad talked to me maybe once every 3 months in that time. It was hard, but fortunately I had Peru to distract me. I made friends here, was busy with work, and had plenty of experiences here that kept me from thinking about the pain of losing my family.
On the plus side, my mother and I are closer than ever now. We talk twice weekly and were open about everything from drugs to sex to relationships to work. We don’t withhold anything at all. Its really refreshing. I visited the family at Christmas time in 2010/2011. It was decidedly awkward. My sister was ok with me, although I tried to counsel her on her situation. Its remarkably like mine not long ago and she wouldn’t listen, she always has been stubborn. Since I returned to Peru on January 4th, I haven’t spoken to my sister. Only once to my dad due to a mini-emergency (I got robbed).
I haven’t seen my extended family since April 2009, some of them even longer. I miss that, but I only saw them once or twice a year anyway.
I will say that now it hurts more to be alone without my family. That is probably what led me to the websites I’m browsing now and what led me to write this. Now I need other people to help me. I recognize that. I’ve always been independent and I know I can do anything I want to on my own, but when it comes to my emotional state I think I need other people. So finding these ex-JW communities has been great. I hope to be a big part of it.
I doubt I’ll visit the USA this year. Money is tight and flights are expensive. I plan on becoming Peruvian, possibly opening a business here. I want to continue travelling and exploring the world. It’ll keep me busy. For now, I have a really loving and beautiful girlfriend who loves talking about all this, it’s helped me open up a lot.
For all of those who have read this, and have felt similar at any point in life, let me just say one thing: You can get out of there if you want to! Its not impossible. I came to friggin Peru to get away! And it worked. There is no limit to what you can do with the right motivation. I was determined to come here and make it work, and its working out really well. I’m proud of myself and the things that I have done. And none of us are ever really alone. There are loving good people in the world that can support us and help us with our bad days and sad times. Of course its not easy to be an Ex-JW, but its not as bad as being a JW in my opinion. I’m happier with my life than ever. Although I miss my family and I feel sad sometimes, I have more positive feelings than negative ones. I’ve finally stepped out into the world and I’m not looking back, I’m looking ahead. I have big plans and I’ll have some really awesome adventures to tell of one day.
And I’m none of the things the JWs told me I’d be: A drug addict, a drop out, an illegitimate father, an HIV victim, a greedy bastard with no personal life, a lonely man with nobody who loves me, an empty shell of a soul with no purpose. On the contrary, I am NONE of those things. I felt more of those feelings as a JW than I do now!
Thanks for reading all of this. I hope you have found it helpful. I want people to have a chance to see other people can succeed despite being at a distinct disadvantage from the start.
Another thing, don’t be bitter. People often turn resentful and angry at the JWs. I wont do that. I cant. I’m not like that. I recognize I had a really nice childhood (see part 1) and I was raised with good values. I’m a good person. Better than many. Sure some parts of being an ExJW are sad, but its not because anybody is against me on a personal level. Its because my family holds their beliefs dear. I’ve always wanted to follow my beliefs, so how could I be angry with another person for doing the same thing? I’ll never criticize my father or sister for following the religion if that’s what they really believe. I will however criticize people who don’t have the courage to do what they believe in, and walk away from that religion even though it hurts. You have to respect yourself, and living a lie is the #1 way to ruin your self esteem.
It may be necessary for young people living at home, but once you can get out of there, do it. Don’t lie to anybody one second more than you have to.
/end motivational speech mode
Thanks again for listening to my lengthy schpiel. I hope to read yours!
What the blood card should look like.
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Last Edited By: exjwinperu Oct 17 14 6:02 PM. Edited 2 times.
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So here we are at the end.
No its just the beginning, and that is what is so wonderful to understand, and that comes through so clearly in your posts!! Don't ever underestimate just how brave you were.......as you said you went to Peru for goodness sake now thats dedication to thinking for yourself - you have your whole life ahead of you, unlike some of us who remained blinkered for so long, and it will be wonderful to see all that you can achieve!!
This bit made me lol........
I learned Spanish practicing with her in those months.
So that was the bonus eh.........surely that could have been a mitigating circumstance for not getting reproved?? smiley: laugh
You write with conviction and honesty, and I am sure that for many who feel trapped and that it is impossible to get out of the mind control your words will be a great help and motivation........
We do not have to define ourselves by our pasts, but as you said it has made us who we are today..........(we just offloaded the negative unnecessary drivel)........and there is no company quite so appreciated and appreciative as those who have made the same journey........
It is great to have you here, and I look forward to knowing you better
Sam xx
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Very interesting and encouraging. Thanks for the postings and welcome to the board!
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May 6 11 11:37 AM
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Thanks once again Peru for sharing your life story with us. You have a wonderful way of writing that keeps the interest going!! Please keep posting. Take care.
Sarahkate xx
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exjwinperu wrote:
I’ll never criticize my father or sister for following the religion if that’s what they really believe. I will however criticize people who don’t have the courage to do what they believe in, and walk away from that religion even though it hurts. You have to respect yourself, and living a lie is the #1 way to ruin your self esteem.
I agree--I've discussed this with other ex-jw friends--it's hard to respect those who remain on the fence/hide when they know they don't believe it anymore. If you believe, go for it, if you don't then don't.
thank you for sharing your story. You are very clear-minded and handled your situation very well. Distance does wonders for enabling us to break free. Gives the breathing space needed.
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Hey Peru... thanks for sharing your story, very interesting and it will definitely be helpful to some, I'm sure. The biggest thing is that it IS possible to move on, and to live your life. Everyone makes mistakes and learns from them, but JWs try to tell you that if you open up that "cage", one slip up will ruin you forever. Glad you're on the board and you find it helps as well!
...Rob.
“This I believe: That the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in the world. And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual.”
-John Steinbeck
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Well I got through all 4 parts!
You made a comment somewhere along the line that everything you did you did, not for god, but for the organization. That's the bottom line for most of us I think. My whole life as a witness (at least in my younger years) was about staying out of trouble with the congregation. God never came into the picture much. I said he did, but I was just fooling myself. I was scared of the elders, or my family, or my friends at the hall. If only we could've realized that.
Sad, too, that you had to go all the way to Peru to feel safe enough to escape, although it sounds like it was blessing in disguise, as you are very happy there. Many of us move all the way across the country to escape, or at least switch halls and then fadesmiley: laugh!
But for all those who can't get up enough courage to leave, I don't feel like I can't respect them. We of all people know how frickin hard it is and how deep the roots of our indoctrination grow. It's hard to be true to yourself when from day one you are taught that your self should come last in terms of importance. Self-esteem is a bad word among witnesses, even if you come from a relatively loving family. It took me 45 years to get out, and I am still recovering. I feel like scales have fallen from my eyes, but for so long I didn't realize there were scales in my eyes!
As a Minnesotan, I gotta believe you are enjoying the weather in Peru more than in Detroit. We had one hell of a winter, and spring has been mostly cloudy and cool. Keep us posted!
Valerie
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What strikes me about you is that at an incredibly young age you had your mind made up, had a plan, and you followed through with your plan and moved to S. America and your doing just fine for yourself (minus the JW family issue and emotions). I never had that vision at your age (I believe you said you were born in 1989???......I feel old now) I'm not sure I'm as determined as you are even now.
It's also funny that now your close with your Mom. Well actually it makes total sense. Just curious what does your Mom now have to say about you, her failed marriage to your Dad, why she cheated, how her life is now for herself, her relationship now with your sister....etc?
Life is a learning experience. So many of us now EX-JW never actually knew you could live life, truly figure out who you are, what you want to do with your time your life, what you truly believed in, there is no real "honest" living as a JW, it's all mostly for show for others in the cong. or to other JW family members. You being totally open & honest with your Mom now I'm sure is very refreshing. I'm sure you feel that's how it should have been all along, that's how it should be with your Dad & Sister as well. But it takes two to tango and JW aren't comfortable being open & honest, it betrays the image the WTBTS wants us to have and it's very scary to them, I know because I've been on the other side of the fence, most if not all on here have.
BTW the Redwings are still alive in the playoffs. They beat SJ last night to keep the series going!
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Hey thanks DuWut. I kinda like the Pens cause I was born in the burgh but once they get eliminated I like the wings. Head to head though I keep my Pens love alive. I took a lot of shit in the D for that those two years they played back to back.
Anyway with my mother:
Its really been a blessing for me. I hate to sound selfish but in some ways I'm glad it happened. If not, I'd have nobody to talk to.
She opened up a lot about marital problems that stayed hidden a long time. I had seen my parents arguing and fighting sometimes and always just assumed it was usual couple stuff. But it sounds like dad got sucked into work too much, and mom had a tough time dealing with some of his headship decisions. Eventually snapped.
Her relationship with my sister is a limited one. They see eachother once weekly. Sounds like they have good days together though, although my mom has alluded to her being distant sometimes. Sounds like outside of that day they hardly talk and my sister won't acknowledge my mom's calls/messages until the dedicated visitation day (agreed upon amicably by my parents).
And it was interesting to see her go out into the world. She kinda ran a bit wild for a few months. Settled down relatively quickly though and claims she'd like to get remarried because she doesn't like living alone.
But what I love is her ambition lately. She used to want to study a bit more, but of course education is frowned upon and my dad was providing enough money. So she sorta felt repressed there. Now she's trying to grow her own business and even helps her boyfriend pick stocks to trade (hes a day-trader).
So its been cool. We're both opening up around the same time, and its kinda strange because we've been made equals and peers in a number of ways.
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status offlineDuWut
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May 10 11 5:21 AM
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When I told my father I was getting a Divorce from my psycho JW wife of 14 years with insane amount of emotional & infidelity issues the first thing he said was "I don't blame you. I don't know how you stayed so long with what she put you through." Mind you my father doesn't open up and talk to ANYBODY not even my mother. When then talked for about 2hrs and it was the first time in my life (and I was in my mid-30's) that we ever had more than a 2 or 3 minute conversation. And yes my Dad was an Elder the entire time I was growing up.
That being said he then proceeds to tell me that for about 15yrs he wanted out of his marriage to my mother. smiley: eek Which of course I never knew. In the end they never got divorced but I believe my father my have had a one night stand with a woman at a bar during this time to get out of the marriage (that's what I heard from someone at least). Funny how people can be a lifetime JW, be married for over 40yrs and you find out later in life that the vast majority of the time it was nothing but hardship and unhappiness. But they kept making the meetings and it appeared on the outside that everything was fine. Now I think my Dad does his thing, my Mom does her thing, they live in the same house and go to the KH together, but they have no common interests at all together and they live seperate lives and just stay married. That is not what a marriage should be in my book. Sounds horrible and uber-unfullfilling to me.
Hindsight being 20/20 I think it might have been better if they had gotten divorced. Just my opinion, but at this point he's almost 70 so I don't think their going anywhere.
Back with your story I'm glad you have your Mom to talk to and to be "real" with. I'm sure your sister has suffered alot of mental/emotional anguish with you leaving the country, her being raised as a JW, then you DA yourself, then your parents get divorced.....that'a alot for a kid to deal with. Not sure of her age but she's gonna need more time to grow and deal with everything that has happened in the last few years. Her home life and support system and security blanket has been ripped from her.
Is your mom happier now? How is your Dad doing? Has what has happened with you and your Mom made any changes in him? Or is he stubborn and the same he's always been? How is his "spirituality" or meeting attendence now? Do you feel like your mom was justified in leaving and doing what she did?
I find JW family situations like this somewhat fascinating.
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May 10 11 5:55 AM
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I enjoy talking about it.
You're spot on with my sister. She has it a bit rough. She seems to like this boy a lot and wants to live with him and get married possibly. I hope she doesn't make a rash decision. She's on anti-depressants also which I hate to see.
With my parents, my mom seems a lot happier now. Of course she still feels sad over the situation and nobody ever wants it to turn out like it did, but I think she's better off. She sounds better. And I think she did what she had to do. I think she definitely cracked after a long time of pressure, and I don't blame her. I mean, I think there were better ways to handle the incident and the divorce. I mean she packed all her shit up and left the house while my sister was asleep home alone. Thats a bit of a traumatic experience for a kid to wake up and find the house kinda partially empty and can't find your mom who won't answer a phone call. But she was under a lot of emotional stress. I don't find any real fault with her at all.
I think my dad spiritually has always been tough to figure out. He stepped down as an elder due to all the social scandal between mom and I, it definitely didn't look good for him. But he seems to be regular at the meetings like always. I think he's starting to get over it. Its been over a year but its been tough for him. He was also on some happy pills and I think is off them now. He was dating another JW woman but it didn't pan out and I don't think he's ready for it. At the same time he's one to drink some vodka at night and watch quasi-appropriate TV programming and swears from time to time. He's not a super hardcore dub in that sense. But I think deep down he is a dub through and through and won't leave it soon.
Its interesting DuWut that you mention your dad not talking with you much. Mine neither. He's never been very expressive. My mom complained about this. I never felt like I was missing much but we never talked like super seriously. We talked sure but it was never like super deep. He's even marvelled at my letter to him confessing everything and said he couldn't believe just how well I can put my feelings into words. He clearly can't as well.
We had one dinner together on my last visit. No mom or sister. And I could tell he wanted to talk to me about my life and my decisions and find out more. But we never did. We talked about work and my sister and stuff but it wasn't really about me at all. Then as I'm leaving and he says goodbye he quickly rattles off a list of my problems saying how sad it is to see me ''getting girls pregnant (there was a scare), smoking, drinking, and not being spiritual''
Really wish he could just talk about it instead of trying to squeeze it in there when I can't even respond to him.
And that was our last conversation.
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status offlineAndriaSyxx
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May 14 11 8:24 PM
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You had me at 'learning to salsa' Andrew-in-Peru
On a more serious note .... it was sad to read about your parents splitting up and the loss of regular contact with your dad and sister, but heartwarming to read that you are closer to your mum. It's wonderful you have each other and who knows ... in time you may get your sister and your dad back again more regularly! Time can be a healer of wounds ..... although not always as many of us in here can attest to.
I cannot imagine moving from my own country to another where English is not the main language ... so kudos to you for taking the challenge up so beautifully. Being bi-lingual will hold you in good stead regardless of what you decide to do with your future career path.
Sadly the jdub religion is not for the faint-hearted nor for those with inquisitive insatiable appetites for knowledge and truth. It is merely one of many religions all claiming to be 'the chosen one' ....... with the major downside being that you cannot simply walk out and get on with your life as you should be able to. You're taking each day as it comes .... more kudos to you mate!
Thanks for sharing your story so eloquently ...... I'm sure you've already inspiration and courage to those who are perhaps still in two minds as to what step to take next. Well done Andrew-in-Peru.
"Thanks to God .... for making me an Atheist!"
Ricky Gervais
Golden Globe Awards - 2011
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Loved reading your story. This is my first time reading about people who have had a childhood similar to mine. Refreshing and good to know there are many more happy, fulfilled 'heathens' who have left:)
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Pretty frikkin awesome man. After reading that, I feel like I've known you for like 10 years or somethin'. You make me wanna write an unabridged version of my own story. Just a few comments:
I started looking at porn a little bit here and there. I did my best to hide it but at one point I must have forgotten to clean out my history or something. So my dad found out about it.
yup, sounds familiar. Shame2 My mom didn't turn me over to the Gestapo either, I just got beat with a belt. . . guess I'm lucky. I can just hear the elders now, "so what exactly were you doing while you watched this unclean material?"
I decided to tell my parents how I felt. I didn’t want to be a witness anymore. I didn’t believe it, I saw too much hypocrisy, and I felt it was hurting us. I came out about it.
Wow man, you're a beast.
And she left me another guilty email which I foolishly left open on my laptop. My sister forwarded it to my dad.
I have no doubt that my sister would've done the same exact thing, in fact if she found out about my current double life she'd rat me out faster than a (insert clever phrase)
I couldn’t be there in front of people I had worked so hard to impress for the last 4.5 years.
I used to worry about this a lot. needless to say, these days I couldn't care less what these people think of me.
"Go, I will. Good relations with the Wookies I have"
*chuckles*
Last Edited By: leapofthefrog May 25 11 11:32 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Hey Peru. Been meaning to respond to your story for a while. I read all 4 parts, well done for posting. I'm still a JW but desperate to get out. My Dad being the main reason I'm maintaining a sporadic meeting attendance as I have detailed in previous posts. I really enjoyed your story as there were a lot of things in common with my upbringing. I'm a 3rd generation JW. I was raised in a very small town congregation which I'm sure increases the narrow-mindedness and brainwashing effect on JW when compared to the larger city congregations (this is just my experience). I really felt for you when I read about your 'secret' girlfriend in part 2. I had a similar relationship with a JW girl. I was absolutely head-over-heels in love with her, but we were always 'breaking the rules' as far as physical contact was concerned, as well as going out 'unchaperoned' (gasp - shock horror). Like you I couldn't bring myself to feel bad about it but she really struggled and along with other pressures this gradually forced us to end our relationship. Not before I had been before 2 judicial committees. The first time was my GF forcing me to confess past sins if I wanted to continue our relationship and the second time we both went before our respective JCs to confess our 'unclean' behaviour. My JC was actually fairly easy. The elders didn't want to know any details, just whether I thoght I had committed fornication and then they dealt with it accordingly. My GFs JC were unbelievably intrusive, asking if she had climaxed, how many times etc. I was left wondering I they were getting some kind of sexual gratification from it. Anyway after that I decided that there's no way I would be going in front of a JC again as I didn't really see much difference between that and a confessional booth. At the end of the day you're being judged by imperfect men as either repentant or not. Anyway we carried on misbehaving and the rest is history.
Sorry to hear about your Dad being DFd and wanting back in. I would love to be able to confess all to my Dad but at present I cannot bring myself to do it for fear of the distress it would cause him. I also have to consider his role as an elder in my cong as most of my opinions are decidedly apostate and this would compromise his loyalties. He recently commented during the WT study, regarding the ‘new light’ on the generation teaching, that if we have to wait another 40 years for Armageddon, then, just like the Israelites, we should view this as a test of faith! My heart sank when I heard him say this as it just served to confirm how deeply brainwashed my dear old Pop is. I don’t think he would understand my reasoning on 607/587, the Blood issue, The Flood etc and I fear losing him or causing him too much pain if I confessed all.
Stories like yours bring me great comfort so keep posting and as soon as I’ve made any progress (I still haven’t ‘fessed up to my wife) I will post.
Thanks again Peru.
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woohooI noticed you came in and edited your original post ..... lovely to see you in here again. What have you been up to?
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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AndriaSyxx wrote:
woohooI noticed you came in and edited your original post ..... lovely to see you in here again. What have you been up to? Yes, Andrew...nice to see you back. I had wondered what happened to you and how you were doing. Hope you stick around for awhile...a lot of the former folks are not here anymore, and we miss them.
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I just read your Post 4 and have not yet seen/read posts 1-3. However, you are such a good writer, I will go back to read them. Glad to have you here and keep on posting. Love your insights and can relate in many waYs.
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Over Two Years....
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offlineImHavingABadDay
Over Two Years....
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Apr 10 14 12:52 PM
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It's been over two years since I've stepped foot in a Kingdom Hall...and on Monday I'll be attending the memorial.
In 2012 my life took a turn. I, a female baptized publisher in the congregation, got a girl friend. Why? Because at the time I loved her, I lusted after her even. I was a junior in a high school, and raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses since birth. But as I reached my teen's, I couldn't help but disagree with their views on the LGBTQ community. Even before my baptism a pioneer sister would come once a week to give me a bible study. Since I was brought up in the religion, why would I have to be some pioneer's pet project? But I could never get out of it. But there was one lesson where she spoke of "Homosexuals" as being "perverse, and disgusting." Even then I had some gay or lesbian friends, and they seemed no different to me than anyone else. Eventually I got baptized a year after some class mates. It moved me, and so I went along. Everyone was so proud of me....it was such a mistake. Thinking now, I can't even remember what year I was baptized in. I believe it was January 2012, but I'm not sure.
Anyway, back to 2012. I had gotten a girl friend. She lived states away, so it was online. I had a lot of online friends, and it took years to convince my family they were real and not some pedophile. But the fact is that most people outside the congregation don't want to kill you, or sleep with you. My mother didn't know about the relationship, but my younger sister found out through an art site her and I used. I don't know if she told my mother or what, but one day my mother drove me home from school, parked by our house, and sobbed, telling me she knew about Rene(not her real name) and I. That led to a Sheparding call not long after. They seemed surprised when they counseled me on lusting after men, and my reaction was blank faced, that is was a girl I showed my affections to. My uncle was an elder at the time, and still is to this day. It wasn't long before the news reached him. I remember one day we were playing the board-game "Life" and when it came time to get married I gave my little pink player a blue one to ride along with. My uncle looked at me and said something along the lines of "What, you're not choosing a wife?" in angry tone. It was then my paranoia set in. I felt like everyone knew, like everyone judged. My mother spoke me to differently, the parents of other teen my age looked at me with scorn. It was then I stopped attending meetings. My mother insisted that wasn't the case. But to this day I do not believe her.
The only solace I had was in my friends, my "wordly" friends. But due to the fact that one of them was a girl my age and her bisexual boyfriend, she cut my ties with them. Limited my phone, my internet. I had no ties with anyone outside the congregation. No one to talk to but judging eyes. It was then the cutting began. It wasn't really cutting, not that you would traditionally think of any way. I disassembled a clothespin and scratched raw red lines on my arm. One for every day I had no one to turn to. One for every day I was supposed to "pray to feel better." Then one day I left. I walked down the street to my brothers workplace. I have two older ones. The eldest is a witness. The second hasn't been for years. (We will name the eldest Dan and the younger Cole.) Once at Cole's work I told him all that had happened. It was then that I moved into his place. I lived with him for maybe a few weeks, spending my birthday there, being able to talk to my friends, and finally getting in contact with Rene, who was worried sick over me. But in early June, near the end of the school year, Cole had to go on a trip. He had planned it long before anything had happened, and I had to stay with my mother once again. I dreaded it. He was only gone for four days or so. Dan lived in the house across from us, and I was sure he noticed my absence. Before I had left he cam into my room on evening and began spitting scripture at me. Speaking about Sodom and Gomorrah. Asking if I "really didn't think he'd find out." I cried, out of fear, though I'm he took it as guilt and left. Now that I had returned he came into my room in the morning. He tried to pull me out of my room he "just wanted to talk". I was screaming, crying, all out of fear. I tried to use my phone, to call 911, to call Cole, but Dan took it. I had seen him mad before. He had thrown lawnmowers, thrown our dog across the living room, and now I was his target. My mother got in the way, protecting me, but Dan grabbed her arm, the one she had recently broken and just had surgery on. She yelled out in pain, he didn't stop. I ran out of the house and climbed a tree, like I had done so many times before to get away. By this time my younger sister had gotten the phone and given back to me. I called Cole, in tears. He said I had to go to the hospital. I argued, but was in no mental or physical state to properly object. He called his ex wife, a woman who remained a close family friend, and she drove me to the hospital, mom following us in another car. I was submitted into the psych ward at around 6 pm on a Saturday. In the middle of the night I talked with a social worker, and at around 12pm on Sunday, I was moved to a rehab center. It was full of "troubled teens". Kids who cut, kids who fought, kids who drank. And it helped, the hospital helped me. I had few visitors, mostly only my mother. Once my Aunt and Uncle did visit for an hour or two, my Uncle's only words to me were "When are you coming back to the hall?"
When I finally got out school was over for the year and my mother had given me back my friends, though I still couldn't go to the meetings. The very thought of it gave me panic attacks. But I attended gatherings and parties, and no one treated me differently. Then Dan got engaged. For me to be in the wedding I had to attend all the meetings. So I went to all the Sunday meetings I could, crying through the songs, and gripping onto the chair for dear life otherwise. Running to the car when the last prayer concluded. Dan didn't care if I was in pain, he was saving face. He had always cared about image after all. So eventually he got married and I cried at the reception. Though now I know it wasn't him who necessarily cared if I went to those meetings. It was my our Uncle. Uncle had not wanted me in the wedding, but Dan did, so they compromised, again, not caring for my mental health. Then I graduated High School, and I would have loved to have it with my school friends. And by now those friends I had longed to be with before, I was dating the boy, the girl and I grew apart, since he was her ex-boyfriend and all that. But my mother didn't approve so I had a graduation party with witnesses. The only teenage girl my age did not attend, since her parents did not think I was a good example. And yet earlier that year I was practically required to go to hers. The last function I attended was a housewarming party for Dan and his new wife. I haven't been around a group of Witnesses since. In late July of that year my mother kicked me out and I again moved in with Cole. Two months later, Cole moved in with his girlfriend and I moved in with my boyfriend and his parents. During that time my mother and her long time boyfriend had gotten disfellowshipped. Last July my boyfriend and I moved into an apartment. And another witness I had been close to, and one who never abandoned me, got dissfellowshipped with his girl friend. And currently we are moving again and my younger sister lives with Dan. I cannot express how scared I am because of this. Dan and his wife have never wanted children, so why they would take in a Teenager is beyond me. I also cannot see why my mother agreed to such a thing. My sister is forbidden to speak with me, though she often does anyway and got in trouble for it, and is hardly aloud to speak with our mother. The only kids her age in the hall are boys, so she gets in trouble for talking with them. And since Dan and his wife taker her electronics away because she speaks with me, she cannot talk to other young sisters her age in different halls. And she was only recently baptized. She is the same age I was when everything happened. I can see Dan and his wife pushing her where he helped push me. And there is no one there to protect her. It pains me to sit idly by while they take way her freedom and her uniqueness. In fact, the last time I felt this helpless is when I began my self harm.
Only last year did the elder's announce my dissassociation. I hadn't ever given them a letter, even though I said I would. But it was clear I wasn't coming back. Now after all that time and after all that pain I am attending the memorial. Why? Because it is something I believe in. I may not agree with some of the teachings, or the rules the Witnesses have. And I am convinced that many do what they do blindly or to save face. but after all that I have come to terms with who I am, and what I believe. If anything now, I am curious to see what people will say to me. I work in a local grocery store so many witnesses see me. Some, even elders wives, speak with me as if nothing's changed. Others ignore me even when I'm scanning their groceries.
And if you are wondering where my father is through all this, he was disfellowshipped when I was very young. But that is a different story all together. Now he and I are close. I apologize for such a long story, but everything in it is true.
status offlineKBG
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Apr 10 14 6:04 PM
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Hi Having,
Welcome I hope I can be a sounding board for you, and others here will want to be here for you too!
As for your story.... Wow....wow... Did I say Wow yet??? You've had some really rough times to go thru with no strong allies in your corner. I'm glad you at least had Cole to help you when you needed it most. My mother had to help raise her younger siblings when her own mother bailed on them. It didn't work out well, she feels bad about not being able to do enough for them, but she was practically a kid herself.
You don't really speak to how you see the contradictions resolving. If you think the way the Watchtower portrays LGBTQ is unkind and misleading, why are you going back? Is it for family? What are the real reason you are going back? What do you believe that is taking you back if you also disagree with many of their beliefs.
I ask the above question to help you think it through. Not to pressure you and say you ought to leave or you should go back. There were many years that I stayed in it for family, even though I didn't believe the Watchtower BTS was THE TRUE RELIGION anymore.
Whatever you decide, I do wish you a happy life. And I can give you ear to talk/type thru what you are thinking.
Hugs, K
status offlineImHavingABadDay
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Apr 10 14 6:41 PM
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I'm not going back. Just going to the memorial this year. Since my mothers been DF'd she has been so much more supporting. My boyfriend and I are actually moving into her house since she will be moving in with her boy friend. Even though I left, and I love that I left, there are still some things I believe in, or things I value what I was taught. And though if any one asks I would tell them I'm Christian, but I my boyfriend and I have some Native American roots, so we are trying to find our way back to them. But the memorial is something I believe in, honoring Jesus death. Just because his death led to a bunch of crazy elders and brainwashed kids shouldn't stop me from that. Since I was raised as a JW for so long some things are hard to let go, but I'm slowly finding my own religious self. But the memorial is something I still think I should still respect, because I don't personally think Jesus is myth. Do I think that he was truly the son of God or that his death payed for all of our sins, I don't really know. But I believe he lived a hellish life and I respect that fact by going to the memorial.
I am so proud I've found this community because there isn't anyone to talk to about this stuff. I talk to my boyfriend about it, since his mom was a crazy christian too, but not a JW, so he get's some of it but not all of it. My sister is recently baptized and only wants me back. And my mother doesn't know what she wants religiously. So I finally found a place to open up! WOO HOO! Thanks guys!
status offlineRaine
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Apr 10 14 11:08 PM
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Welcome
I'm so glad you came here to share your story. It's brave and will help others as they relate to you.
It's been 17 years since I left. But I keenly remember what it was like to be the target of JW gossip (slander). All of them would rather believe what was said behind my back. And judge me. Not one of them came to me to ask what the truth is. It was completely isolating and damaging. I can relate to your experience in that way.
Honestly though, it is so reflective of how JW's believe and behave overall. They are told by the Watchtower that they are the truth, the way and the light. Everything in all the publications from the awake to the bible is absolute truth. Never question, never seek the actual truth. What if I told you the memorial isn't what we thought it was. All it takes is a little research and.. Well it shook me up when I went down the research path. And I mean that in a good way. Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to dissuade you. You have every right to go and every right to believe in what you want. I will always support a persons right to choose and do what makes them fulfilled and happy within themselves and about themselves.
But I do want to say that to ask questions and seek answers and then research those answers to corroborate. Is one of the greatest gifts we have as humans. Knowledge truly is power. We can only go on that journey when we are ready. And just know that we'll be here for you.
You've been through a lot so (((Hugs))) and I truly hope your life has peace and happiness now and in the future. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.
All the best
I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming
"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"
I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me.
status offlineMarked for life
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Apr 11 14 5:51 AM
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Hey Having and welcome!
Being young and going through what we have is completely unique in this world and thank goodness it is! I'm very happy to see you getting these things off your chest. This is a beginning of a very important healing process for you. You should definately embrace life for what you feel is right for yourself. Many people will feel shame for something they shouldn't because of dogma that has been shoved down their throats for a lifetime. If you believe in God as I do, you should know that he/she created you to be exactly what you are. You are perfect to him/her. Everything else is a lie.
You can hold onto core values that you learned without having to conform to another groups standards. I read a great quote once:
"Sitting in a church(or Kingdom Hall) doesn't make you a christian any more than sitting in a barn makes you a cow."
In other words, These places are full of hipocrites like your brother Dan. Christians ought not to be abusive. That's evil. Not from God.
I don't usually say this because I feel like people should find their path in their own way, But I would stay away from the Memorial if I were you, esp. given the anxiety you feel. You can hold your own memorial in your heart everyday. And that's infinately more important than sitting in a room full of sinners who refuse to agknowledge that that's what they are.
Anyway I'm glad you found us!
Love ya
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status offlinesolitaire
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Apr 11 14 9:48 AM
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Hello there and welcome :-)
Hope that your days just got better for finding us lot smiley: smile
I talk to my boyfriend about it, since his mom was a crazy christian too, but not a JW, so he get's some of it but not all of it
I totally get that.......it was just how I felt when I first found this place!! My 'worldly' hubby has had to listen to my rants about my upbringing for many years and, although he sympathised and tried to understand the anomalies of the religion, he never totally 'got' it....
So to find a whole community of people from all over the world who did get it, who spoke the same 'language' was an amazing feeling!
I understand your wanting to attend the memorial and see the reactions, but I just hope that their narrow-minded views and attitudes don't cause you even more discomfort!! D/a'd...D/f'd....however they label us, they have to stay within their 'safety' zones, which mean treating us how they are told, as 'mentally diseased' smiley: sick To allow interaction between active jw's and anyone who is finally thinking for themselves is way too dangerous for them to contemplate ....
The organisation try so hard to isolate us when we dare to question, but thanks to the internet and sites like this, that is no longer the way it has to be.....finally we have no need to feel alone in the real world......and I am pleased that you have been brave enough to take back control of your life and also to tell some of your story.......
Good to have you here, and I hope you enjoy 'letting of steam' smiley: smile
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineImHavingABadDay
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Apr 17 14 11:19 AM
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It was actually pretty boring....
I went through with it and attended the Memorial on Monday night. I don't know what I was expecting, but I felt virtually nothing. I think the most awkward part was when the young brother my sister likes kept looking over at me and then to her. I just wanted to go over and say to him "Yes, she is my little sister. Yes, I am that disfellowshipped girl you've probably heard about. But if you don't stop staring at her I'm going to sink my high heels into your face." Other wise I just kept making sarcastic remarks to my mother, who is also DF'ed. When they were praying over the wine the brother said something along the lines of "And we all have decided to turn away from a life of sin..." And I leaned over to my mom and whispered, "Well...not ALL of us made that decisions." It was all she could do to not interrupt the prayer. My aunt saw me though and got really happy. I'm just hoping that she doesn't take it as a sign of me coming back. Because I never want to be in there or around those people again.
Oh right...one other funny thing was that on the wall it had this year's quote "Let your kingdom come". It really sounds like they are just begging for it to happen at this point, but maybe that's just me.
And thank's for all the welcome's, I really appreciate it :)
status offlineinspecterD
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Apr 18 14 7:59 PM
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Hi ImHavingABadDay and welcome to the forum. I guess I haven't seen your first post and haven't properly welcomed you. I am glad that you found this forum since it is a safe and comfortable place to land after being in the Borg. I give you kudo's to be able to attend the memorial since I myself have decided that I probably would embarrass myself if I were to attempt it. I am also very happy that you have your Mom to support you in your choices in life. Even though mine didn't support my choices they at least didn't shun me which made a big difference to me.
Keep on posting here we love to hear from new ones.
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Apr 23 14 12:11 PM
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Hi and welcome to the board. I hope you enjoy your visits around here.
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Hi there Having ..... here's hoping you can change your name to HavingASuperAwesomeDecade sooner rather than later eh!
Welcome to the forum ............. and thanks for sharing your story. I've no idea why I missed your thread either (just caught up with Thoughtful's) ................ but better late than never right!
I only ever went to one of the WBTS' memorial services after walking out ... and it was only to keep my mum happy. It didn't make her happy at all ... as she thought I'd 'see the light' and keep on going! My poor mum ..... 33 odd years later and still she has those moments when she thinks I'll go back because I 'know' it's 'the truth'. Like NOT!\
Anywhooooo ... I hope you enjoy your visits and that your stiletto heels stay firmly on the ground and not end up in some poor delusional person's face!!! Haha!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinewomanbeyondtime
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Just to share the highlights. I just read your story havingabadday. When I was df'd in 99 I did try to go to a few meetings in the neighboring city. But as I cried every time, I decided I had to stop going till I stopped crying. Then one night I had this dream that I went to that hall and they were having a party and filling their plates with food and of course everyone was dressed and I was naked. I collapsed in the corner crying and a sister came over with a paper plate with some very tiny, tiny little crumbs on it and said "Here you can have this". You don't have to be big into dream interpretation to analyze that. Then I decided like you that I wanted to show respect for Jesus by going to the memorial and so I went till 2009. My mother had still talked to me for years after I was df'd although it was on the phone as she lived far away. I was always close to my mother. In June of 08 I could not get her on the phone and I was afraid to leave a message as my sister, married to an elder, should discover it. I finally left a desperate message asking what was wrong. I was worried she was sick or what I did not know. She called back and in the strangest high voice she said "I'm under demonic attack" I said "what what's wrong" she said in a very low voice "I'm under demonic attack. The elders said I cannot talk to you anymore that's why I'm being attacked by the demons." I said "Mom we've talked ..." "I'm sorry ___ " were the last words I heard her say. The phone clicked and that was the last time I talked to my mom. I was so angry I located the number for the hall and called but no elders were there. I then thought how they would make trouble for her and how vulnerable and screwed up she was and I decided not to pursue it. A year and a half later after a strange occurrence in the night I got a phone call in the morning from my brother-in-law who is an elder telling me that my mom had died. Her back had snapped. My mother although an intelligent person did have mental issues, but about 2 years before her vertebrae had started to break. This probably was the source of her "demonic attacks". At any rate she died on Februrary 14th. The memorial was close after but I really decided then that it was the wrong place to go. The "elders" and the society have promoted this kind of idiocy for years and it was not just a few elders in her congregation that caused this breach. Like many of you I had suffered a life time of breaches in relationships because of their insidious and cruel Machiavelian policies. My strange occurrence in the night was like having a head board beat violently against the wall. I looked outside in the morning everywhere to see what could have caused the noise. This was chillingly strange as I was at the time staying since October in a completely empty house that a friend was losing in bankruptcy. I myself had resorted to sleeping in my car for two weeks till the friend found out and insisted that I stay in her empty house. I was sleeping on an air mattress. My mother did not know where I was living or of course my sister who was my only family besides my kids. The point being that if she did have the ability to say goodbye after death how would she have found me without some help. Actually not even my kids knew exactly where I lived. My sister or brother-in-law, I had not talked to for years but when I got the call on my cell in the morning, right away before he spoke I knew what he would say. My mom had died. All I can say is that if my mother died and found out she was still conscious, it must have been a shock! In case you are wondering what I believe now, I think that we do have something separate from our bodies that is the real us. It is spirit. However I do not try to communicate with the dead and I am not saying an immortal. soul. Just maybe there is the chance a person might be able to say good-bye before they go as the Bible says "the spirit returns to the True God who gave it"
status offlineCacky
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Oct 18 14 5:06 PM
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I had an incident after my mom died where I believe she was saying goodbye to me, too.
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My full story, Part one
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offlineexjwinperu
My full story, Part one
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May 2 11 7:07 AM
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I posted my hello thread recently. We can talk more about me there I guess.
This is my full story I'm going to post here and probably on other sites. I plan on breaking it up into a few parts. I have a lot I'd like to say and I also want it to be readable, so this way it can be a bit more clear.
This part is called "Being Raised a JW." Part 2 Is HERE
Being raised a JW, by Andrew M.
This is part one of my four part story. I would like to recant my 20 years of being a JW, and figured I’d break it down into some core parts. This way people can read at their own pace or skip to the good stuff.
Part one: Being raised a JW.
I’m writing this more for people who are ex-witnesses. If you don't quite understand everything, feel free to ask questions. But this assumes you know most stuff about the organization such as terminology.
Sorry if this part bores you. I had to write it. The more juicy stuff will come later. Enjoy.
I was born into a JW family. My parents were raised JWs. Their parents converted before they were born, in their early 20s. So ‘the truth’ (term used by witnesses, not what I actually believe) was well engrained in us from day one. Some of my earliest memories were of the Congregation bible study being held in my house. I can clearly remember us having about 10-12 people in the basement every week, and I was probably only 4-5 years old remembering this. I remember commenting at the meetings from an early age, in my own words. I liked talking, still do (hence why this is so long!). I rambled a bit and got off topic and my mom would usually tap my leg to shut me up. But I liked it because it made my family proud.
Growing up a witness isn’t the same for everybody. It depends so much on where you are, what your family is like, and the congregation around you. A year after the previous events, we moved to a small Kingdom Hall outside of Monongahela PA, A town of about 4000 people. The congregation had about 30 active people and just one girl near my age. From an early age I could notice social divisions in the congregation now that I think back on it. I liked playing with this girl from time to time as she was the only person near my age I ever did anything with. But we didn’t see eachother a lot. She had a single mother, who didn’t get along well with my family. I think I knew back then that she wasn’t really what my parents considered the best association. I didn’t fully understand it at the time. I’d come to understand it a lot more later on.
In such a small KH, it seemed even more important to preach and perform in the hall. I gave my first bible reading at age 6. My dad was appointed an elder a few years prior and my mother pioneered for a few years while we remained in Monongahela. I went out in service every Saturday. I can still remember the first time my dad let me ring the doorbell for him. And I can remember knocking on the door with the ‘family knock’ and embarrassing my dad. I enjoyed all my activity because I saw the constant happiness it brought my parents. They’d brag about me on the phone, all the others in the hall were impressed. I felt good as a result.
Of course there was a life outside the humble brick walls of a former residence turned Kingdom Hall. Also at age 6 I had to start attending school. Already being able to read well in a congregation made school seem super easy. But when I got to school I realized it wasn’t all great. The largely conservative, old school types in rural Pennsylvania didn’t take too well to my sitting down for the flag salute. And they weren’t too happy when I refused to participate in holiday related projects. I remember one time making a Santa Claus face with cotton glued on for a beard just so my art teacher would stop being mean to me. She used to say I made up excuses. I started the year by coming in with my mom and bringing literature to all my future teachers. Most were understanding. Some not so much. My mother came to the school and chewed out the art teacher in front of the principal and I didn’t have too many issues after that. Still I remember how upset my mother was that I had caved to the demands of a person. I hadn’t realized the gravity of it, and I felt bad. Big or small, these types of events happen a lot to people raised as JWs. The slightest compromise of your values brings an unequal amount of pain. This could be applied to many situations in my life.
And so it went. I grew up more in school, continued in the meetings, was regular in service. We seemed like a perfectly normal witness family. I’d visit my grandparents all the time and we’d go to the KH together. Grandma always gave me some chewing gum or candy to keep me happy. I was her #1 grandson she said since I was the first one.
Conventions were a fun time for me. Assemblies not so much. See, for conventions, we had to travel from Pittsburgh to Cleveland Ohio. This meant staying in a hotel, which as a kid is always a blast. We almost always went with my grandmother, and so we’d usually horse around with my grandfather and stay up late watching movies on pay per view and eating candy even though we had to be up early the next morning. Plus, there was a drama on Sunday which captivated my attention. I always wanted to do something at a convention. It seemed fun to be on stage with a few thousand people watching.
As a young child I never really thought much about other things. I guess we had a simple life. In rural PA, there isn’t a whole lot of trouble you can get yourself into. Hell, I don’t think the town even had a real bar. Everything just seemed easy. School wasn’t a big deal, the kids were pretty relaxed. Families were friendly. The town was small and quaint. I had little concept of the outside world. We took occasional shopping trips to Washington PA, the only place nearby (meaning within 30 min) that had a Wal-Mart. And only to see my anointed grandmother, and attend the memorial with her, did we travel to the city of Pittsburgh. I hardly ever went downtown. I probably never saw any of the real fun things to do there.
Living in a cocoon of naivety was nice I suppose. There wasn’t anything pulling me one way or another. Everything just seemed right. I didn’t have any friends but I had a nice family. My little sister, who is three years younger than me, didn’t really sit right with me, but that’s typical sibling rivalry for you. But really I rarely got into a lot of trouble, and did what I was supposed to.
Life would take a drastic turn. Dad lost his job working as a printer operator in a small company in Pittsburgh. He got a new job in Michigan. He went from a typical lay-man job like something at Kinkos, to general manager at a branch of a huge printing company. We moved into Rochester, MI. It’s a suburb of Detroit. My perception of the world changed a lot in the following years. I was only 10, but suddenly I was in a town of 200,000 people and saw so much to do and see. I couldn’t believe it. And for once, I had social interaction with people my age outside of school.
We lived in a small apartment for a few months. During that time I played basketball with neighbor kids, used the pool and learned to swim, and learned to ride a bike. All with these ‘worldly’ kids around. My parents were pretty tolerant of it. But at the same time they kept a cold demeanor around them. As if they tolerated the kids, but didn’t like them. Sometimes one asian kid Randy would come into my house and play Nintendo.
Of course, the inevitable small issues would raise their heads. And this time my parents had something to blame. I remember playing Super Smash Bros. on N64. And my mother felt it was too violent. She wanted me to get rid of the game. She blamed the kids nearby for making me more violent. I never did anything violent but I guess said some things during the game that she didn’t like. I didn’t see the harm in playing a simple cartoon video game. But JW’s see the harm in everything.
At the new KH, many of the people were nice. It was much bigger, about 130 people. There were a few people my age. One in particular would become a really good friend for a while. Again, social division brewed. I could sense that I wasn’t always welcome at this boy’s house. His family was really nice, but seemed to hold themselves a bit higher than the rest. They were converters, not raised JW. But apparently they took it to heart really strong. I can recall his mother being the strictest I ever knew. They didn’t have cable. They didn’t have internet. They didn’t play video games. They didn’t wear name brand clothes. Any logos on clothes were removed or covered. These are not JW teachings but they took things to a new level. So I guess when I invited my friend to play N64 and I showed up wearing a Nike shirt, I was somehow a bad kid. I could feel them watching me, keeping an eye on me, asking what we were up to almost all the time. He was a couple years older than me, but never seemed to doubt ‘the truth’ at all. He still never has.
School was interesting in Rochester. I hated it, but in many ways it was easier. The area was so diverse that religion was removed from the school. There wasn’t any Christmas celebration or Halloween or easter or any of that. So being a JW was easy. I just didn’t talk about it, and it didn’t come up because it didn’t have to. Most kids there didn’t like me for whatever reason, and I guess I wasn’t used to the environment.
We moved shortly thereafter to Sterling Heights MI. An equally large town and even more diverse than Rochester. Much of the congregation was Arabic. One of our best family friends was also and I developed quite the good relationship with that family while I was 11-12. It was at this age I started to see the different side of witnesses. We all know its there, we just don’t always see it.
I won’t ever forget sitting in their basement while their son, aged 10, watched MTV. Cisqo’s (idk how to spell that guys name) Thong Song came on. My JW teaching told me not to watch it and I walked away and told the kid to turn it off. He laughed at me and kept watching and said its not a big deal. I can recall that being the first time I was around JWs and seeing another person, not the kind you see on Sunday and Tuesday night, but a normal person. Like one from school.
I guess at this age I was starting to get curious about girls and one of the girls in this family was cute and I always liked her while I was there. Nothing ever happened but it piqued my curiousity enough to the point where I started thinking about it more in school. Unfortunately such desires wouldn’t get their fulfillment for quite a while.
We moved back to Rochester as my folks didn’t like Sterling Heights very much. The congregation there was full of cliques. You had racial division, division among elders, and even a really crazy sex scandal during the reconstruction of the hall. The reconstruction was met with tons of opposition for seemingly no reason. When the brother was discovered having an affair, and Disfellowshipped after, the hall got built. People blamed that guy for all the delays. I didn’t think it made sense as god wouldn’t punish a whole building for the acts of one. But people cited biblical cases and even did a local needs talk on it.
Rochester had changed. The hall split and was now about 80 people strong. My friend was still there, but now things were somewhat different. He pioneered, and was busy all the time. I was only 12 and getting settled into a new house.
Being a witness for me at the time was the easiest path so far. But now it would start to become the hardest.
I finally had an opportunity to enter a school in its first year. 6th grade started middle school, and I entered fresh like most of the kids. I guess it made it easier to make friends. I had a group of about 6 good friends, more than I had ever had in my life combined. And so we started being young kids together. Most of it was pretty clean and innocent, but I could see how much fun it was. When they asked me out, I always had to try and explain somehow why I couldn’t. I said my parents didn’t let me. I was afraid to tell them about my beliefs. I still believed it, but also didn’t want to seem strange when I finally had people that liked me. It was a tough feeling inside: Feeling wrong because you aren’t telling the truth, but at the same time feeling happy because youre accepted by somebody.
Life continued on with little to no hiccups for the next couple years. I stayed strong in the truth and was baptized at age 13. I was really happy about it. I remember my mother got me a nice watch to wear to the meetings. My aunt got me a custom JW bible with reasoning book built in. I had a nice dinner with my family. I was excited. I enrolled as an auxiliary pioneer the next month. I would do it a couple times a year, usually in summer. This was when the hour requirement was 50 hours. It wasn’t bad. I had a good time.
I think for most of us reading this, there come two parts in your upbringing. The first is what I’ve described: A mostly uneventful, peaceful period. Things make sense, seem ok, nothing is bad. However, at some point most of us get into a second phase. In this phase we have doubts, we desire more answers, and that is when the religion fails us. Remember people, its not the other way around! We don’t fail them, they fail us.
I’m going to post the second part of this, entitled “Doubts as a teenager, Conflict and Struggle” later. For now you can read about this, the happy part, let me know what you think. LINK TO THE SECOND PART
Thanks and take care .
Last Edited By: exjwinperu Oct 17 14 5:21 PM. Edited 3 times.
status offlinesarahkate
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May 2 11 7:44 AM
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Welcome8 to the board Andrew, glad you joined us.
Just finished reading the first part to your story and can't wait for part 2. Wave
Sarahkate xx
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Thanks for the reply..
Working on part two but I gotta go to work soon! So I'll probably get it up tomorrow.
Thanks for reading it.
status offlinePeanut
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HI exjwinperu. Thanks for relating the story of your childhood years in the borg. I was assimilated at 20 NOT raised in the religion so when I read these sort of accounts I feel so glad MY mum & dad were not borg! I look forward to more from you.
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Hello there Andrew and welcome to the board :-)
So much of your story sounds sickeningly familiar lol!! I was another one raised in the religion, and it definitely takes some de-programming once you manage to exit.......
You write very expressively (and thank goodness you also write with paragraphs!!)........I enjoyed reading your first part, and I am sure there are many juicy bits to come smiley: smile
Good to have you here
Sam
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Haha thanks. And yes paragraphs are a must. I know people go into pour out your heart mode and just dump 2000 words into a block, but its much easier on the eyes spaced out. I'll be posting part two tonight, i'll add a link into this thread to keep it all nice and together.
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Welcome8
cool story so far. You really in peru, or do I have to wait for pt. 2?
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Part two is coming up right now! I'll put a link on this thread.
And Yes I am in peru, although that doesn't come until part four... Like I said, I talk a lot.
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Welcome from Unky Punky oh, Peruvian one.
This is quite a story and I haven't been able to read it all just yet. So 'hi!' for now.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Welcome, Andrew.
If you want to be happy, be. ~Leo Tolstoy
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Welcome Andrew! It was interesting reading your story because I went to college in Rochester and lived right next to Sterling Heights in Shelby Township for 8 years.
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Welcome exjwinperu. I'm new to the forum, "faded" for about 5 years, and also grew up in the org. You have a good writing style; I'm looking forward to the other installments.
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Really molly?
Did you go to OU? Whereabouts did you live. I went to the shelby kingdom hall later on. I was there from 2008-2009
And part two is up, theres a link at the bottom of this part.
What the blood card should look like.
Link to my full story
Last Edited By: exjwinperu May 3 11 9:56 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Wave and welcome!
As Sam said, your story is sickeningly familiar to me too! A fourth generation lifer, I too have many vague but not unpleasant memories of life as a good little witness girl.
When you are raised in such a closed up, tight little community of people, when every influential person in your life is just as immersed in the org. as your own family is, when you go to 3 meetings a week and go in service every Sat. and listen to thousands of meeting parts and read and study thousands of articles and publications, and when your knowledge of and experience with the outside world is limited and very controlled, you truly know nothing else. When you begin to have troubling doubts (as you allude to in part 2), you don't even know enough to understand what it is that's troubling you! It's a looong process.
And don't worry about the long posts - I like James Michener novels smiley: roll!!
Valerie
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Hi exjwinperu!
You are the first one that posted on my story so I was excited to find yours and start reading it... finished part 1 and plan to read the rest today...
Reading it brought up so many memories and feelings!! So familiar!!! I too was born in the religion and remember having meetings at my place and being the "good little girl". I also got baptised at 13! WAY too young if you ask me! I can also relate to other families viewing you as a bad association for their children... Not a good feeling... But then they are the best at making other ppl feel worthless and never being able to measure up to their unreacheable expectations.
I wish I would of found this site before...
status offlineexjwinperu
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May 11 11 9:42 AM
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thanks for checkin mine out. For me it's been really eye opening seeing all the eerie similarities between stories and accounts.
What the blood card should look like.
Link to my full story
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Wave a belated but heartfelt 'official' welcome from me Andrew in Peru ....... much easier for me to rhyme than my usual Man-in-Peru eh!
Thanks for being a 'talker' ... it's always a pleasure to get the full story and in such a freely expressed way too. I'm off to read the next bit.
"Thanks to God .... for making me an Atheist!"
Ricky Gervais
Golden Globe Awards - 2011
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I remember playing Super Smash Bros. on N64. And my mother felt it was too violent.
Ha ha, no way
Bruh, guess what videogame I was completely obsessed with when I was around 11 years old: Super Smash Bros. on N64
Guess what videogame my mom prohibited me from playing because she thought it was too violent: Super Smash Bros. on N64
Now that I'm a grown ass man, I own all three games in the series and I follow the competitive Melee tournament scene.
. . . . . booyah!
"Go, I will. Good relations with the Wookies I have"
*chuckles*
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May 25 11 3:34 AM
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Haha leapofthefrog I have to say the amount of similarities I've come across between all the posts is incredible. I used to think my situation was really unique that nobody could understand it, but it's been awesome seeing everything here.
What the blood card should look like.
Link to my full story
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offlineRainbud
Help for my mind!
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Hi everyone. I am finally here to write my story. I have never wrote or told anyone who i really am. or what i feel. I feel noone really understands. Perhaps someone on here will read what i have to write and give advise and help.
My Story
i was born and raised a JW. My family consisted of my father(also born and raised JW), mother (became JW at age 16), my sister (4 years older) and me. I guess up until grade 3 at the age of eight i remember being happy. having a very strong connection with my father. doing things as a family. lots of different friends from the congregation. family bible studies. I believe my father was at one point a MS.
no holidays, birthdays, etc... but i didnt mind. I was happy! Plus i believed that i had the right religon. I was going to see armageddon and make it through to the paridise!
Life changed for me in grade three. My father was i guess all along having an affair. My sister being older than me i think understood more of what was going on. Not me though i wasnt told. I remember one night so very vividly my sisiter and i shared a room. It was almost time for bed. My father came in crying to our room. he told my sister and i that he was going to live with my aunt(his sister) for a while. i remember crying uncontolably. when i asked him why he said it was because he had made mom very upset and she didnt want him there anymore. i hated her! I screamed at her telling her that whatever he did to make her mad to just forgive him. My father was my world!
Things got worse.
My mother now having no real income of her own with two children to take care of we need to move. We moved an hour away to live with my mothers sister. I started a new school. I had no friends. The first day in my new class the national antham came on and my mother had forgotten to tell the teacher that i wasnt supposed to be standing. So when i continued to sit the teacher screamed at me infront of the class to stand i think i shook my head trying to tell her that i wasnt supossed to. I started crying in front of all the class. and i stood. And cryed more. Because that was when i felt for the first time horror that i was displeasing Jehovah. Now i really had no friends! within the frame of three months living there i got a virus that put me in hospital for two nights. My sister was i guess starting to get sick back at my aunts house so my mom left me in the hospital by myself. i was so scared. I remember telling her that she would stay if she loved me and she left to take of my sister. My father came to the hospital the next day. And in my eyes then this man did no wrong! i was so happy to see him. I remember him picking me up and carrying me down one of the hospital hallways and my mother was following him and not letting him be alone with me. In fear that he would tell me lies and she would look like the bad parent. after three months my mother, sister and i moved back to our old school. We had a small appartment. Just us three girls. Things seemed to be getting better i saw my father on weekends. For the first while anyways before he was disfekllowshipped. My mother convinced mr that the best thing to do for him would be to tell him that i didnt want to see or hear from him until he was reinstated. i phond him and told him that and hung up the phone. I broke his and my heart that day. he dissappeared for a few years at that point. I cryed myself to sleep every night. I begged my mother to find him. and she did for me. i started a relationship with him again around gradw 7 at that point he was living common law with a girl. My dad was highly trained building things. He could build a house from the ground up if he wanted too. But he didnt. He was lazy not motivated. Never paid child support hid from everyone. elders,poilice, everyone! he had a baby boy with new women and they moved across the country. leaving me behind.
in the few years to follow my sister fell in love with a wittness and they were married when she was 19. My mother ( and you may find this pretty nuts) fell in love with a worldly man that she had met roller skating. She obviously got in lots of crap from elders for this. But somehow she managed to get this guy to become a wittness get baptized and they were married two months after my sister was. So at thi point for me i had lost my father, sister and mother. and i was to be listening to new atthority in my life from my new step father.
My life changed at age 16. I fell in love with a worldly guy at school. so in love. I tryed my hardest to hide it but it came to the point where i couldnt anymore. My mother and step father refused to let me see him. That if i was to continue to see him they wanted nothing to do with me and i needed to not be living under their roof. So i faked it for a whole 2 weeks or so. The day it all went down was when my mother found a note i had written to my boyfriend. I had told him to wait for me and when i was 18 i would move out we could be together. HAHA so much for that she packed my bags for me. she phoned up my boyfreind and told him to come get me that i wasnt welcome there anymore. so he came. he was working in the mall at the time. i went back with him to the mall and one of the girls he worked for had her own one bedroom appartment and that i could stay with her. i never finished school. never got my licence. I got a job instead. after all i was upporting myself now.
My mother came by one night with a box of pictures of me and stuff because she said it was to hard for her to look at them on the walls in her house. She reminded me that i was going to die at armageddon. i believe she also told me she wishes i hadt been born. My boyfriend i must mention was living with his sister and brother in law. His mother had died when he was 10 and his father had serious mental issues. A few months after living with my new roomate in her appartment. She was palnning to move out of town. So with the help of my boyfriends brother in law my boyfriend and i took over the lease of the appartment together. I believe we paided 410 monthly for it. I mean it was pretty dumpy basement appartment. We had arranged with my roomate to keep the furniture we paid her 100 dollars. The night she moved my boyfriend and i were at his sisters house. My roommate let her friends come in and go through and take whatever they wanted including furniture. But that wasn't the worst of it my clothes, the only things i had to my name were also stolen.
My boyfriend and i came home to our new appartment and it was totalled. We had nothing! My boyfriend continued his schooling he was a year older than me so he onlly had a few months left to graduate. i continued to work a few different places in the mall. I was making good money. my boyfriend also was making good money becoming a full time assisant at his job in the mall.
My mother on the other hand whom i wasnt speaking with. was having her own struggles. New hubby was a drunk and hit her. Might i also add he too became a MS in the congragation. lol They divorced after two years of marriage. My father was back living an hour away from us with the same women and my half brother. My boyfriend and i were at this time very active in his life. We would visit lots. he was again the only family i had. It was nice because my dad understood things that no one else did.
I must mention that through this time my boyfriend was slowly teaching and pointing out small things bit by bit that perhaps what i had been taught to believe wasnt the truth. That armageddon wasnt coming tomorrow. that i needed to press on because there was a future. I think my hopes then were to pull him into being a wittness. That way everything would be great. He tried to give that a chance. But he saw what outsiders see that insiders do not. he saw how my family turned their back on me. I think that alone was enough for him.
Looking back i dont know how he was so paitiant with me. So many little things he had to try and change my way of thinking. to make me understand!
At this point i am 18 years old my boyfriend was 19. We moved out of the small basement appartment and into a nice appartment in a pleasent part of town. Money was good but i had started a problem that i didnt know would affect me so much. I started to smoke marajuana. I smoked because it made me forget of everyone i lost that didnt want to speak with me anymore. I didnt feel so much pain. I coasted along. (whoops i forgot to also add that i have been on anti deppessents since i was in grade three).my boyfreind smoked weed as well so it became a daily thing. Time went by. I remember working at a store in the mall at age 19 and seeing on the tv the breaking news of 911. I watched live on tv the second plain fly into the building like so may others didi that day.( So i guess that gives you of an idea how long ago this was and how old i am now.)
A little over two years later on christmas day to be exact. I found a ring in my stooking. Yup my boyfriend got down on his knee and propsed. I said yes of corse.
We Got Married in St. Lucia Sandals resort On March 5 2005.I was 23 years old. No family just us. No church or religous stuff. It was beautiful.
So My Husband and i returned home continuing working fuul time me now at the same company as him. He became a manager of one mall and i became assistant at the other.
My husbands granfather passed away and left us a wonderful amount of money to get us started on our new life. We put a down payment on our first home.
We moved in when i was 8 months pregnant. On August 17th 2006 we had a beautiful baby girl. I started an in home daycare when my daughter was 1.
In this time my mother would visit sometimes. But we didnt really have much to say to each other.
My father Did meet my daughter when she was born on one occation. But a few months after his visit he phoned me up crying to tell me that his sons mother his common law partner was leaving him. I know he was lost again and had nothing. But i know my father all to well. I told him that he need to get his act together and needed to be there for his son who was 8 years old at the time. He didint he dissappeared again. A year later i got a phone call from the hospital because they were making hi give a next of kin because he had a heart attack.
he talked with me that day on the phone. told me he would be ok. I have never seen or heard from him since.
Years go by My mother is in and out of my life due to seeing halloween decorations up then not coming by for a year. Then coming by again! this just keeps going on.
In 2009 i gave birth to my second daughter. still doing home daycare. still smoking weed! still cant break tottally free what is wrong with me? i wish as a child i had the chance to be pushed to continue in school or even feel like it was important. but it wasnt. why become a doctor or scientist because armageddon will be here and there will be no need for this.
why have children for them only to die under you in this wicked world. things still said by my mother. and i know she cant help it. i took so long for my wonderful husband of today to get it through to me. plus why would she want to choose not to believe now she would just lose her family and my older sister whom i do not talk to at all. so i guess when you think about it that way im not worth her giving that up for me.
I am now 31 my daughters are 8 and 5 My husband of 9 years is now working a new job. He tries so hard. but he is away a lot for work. This makes it so that i really cant afford to work out of my house so i need to continue to do the in home daycare here. Wow its so hard being self employed. Husband pays all the bills and i struggle to pay for grochries.
I have noone to really talk with. The people in life that you should be able to talk with have turned on me. and im not talking about my husband because i do tell him everything. But i think what im struggleing with is more than he can handle.
Let me explain how i feel. I am scared to get close to anyone. therefore i have no real friends. When i try to talk with someone i find more recently then not my tonuge swells up like im haveing a apanic attack i forget my words. I look so stupid. i cant move forward i feel stuck.
a few months back now out of no where i was part of a group meeting at a nighbours house with a Medium. She told me my father was there with her. wow that took me for a turn for the worst. she said some pretty weird things concerning him. lol but what was i taught? that its demons talking and of course they know everything.
i my head i believe some part of me still is afraid of armageddon. of not being right. i hate it how it plays in my head. i dont know how to help theses things i dont know how to break through.
Last Edited By: Rainbud Oct 9 14 10:48 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlineCacky
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Wow. What a sad story. I'm so sorry for all the hurt you have gone through. That's pretty hypocritical of your mom, considering she fell in love with a "worldly" guy. As far as advice goes, I don't know if you still believe the religion, but if you still wonder if it's the true religion, I would suggest doing research, for example, google the United Nations and Watchtower, for starters. And jwfacts.com. If you didn't finish school, have you considered working toward getting your ged? From there, you could get government grants and attend college. It's nice to meet you and I wish you well.
status offlinenobodyknows
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Hello, Rain and WELCOME!
So glad you're now able to share your story. It feels good just to be heard sometimes, by people who can identify where we've been and how we've been treated. I'm so sorry for all the pain and loss you've had to experience at such a young age. Have you thought about reaching out to your father now that you two have both left the religion? He may be more receptive to you now that your mother is no longer in the picture. It's difficult to see it, but it's not your fault that he left you. He had to make some difficult decisions to get out from the religion, and part of that process was leaving you and your sister. I'm not making excuses for his actions, just trying to help you see the reasons behind them.
Also, your mother loves you, she's just trying to guilt you into coming back because that's what she has been taught to do by the religion. Were you ever baptized? I hope things work out for you, please keep us posted!
Sending lots of good vibes your way!
~Somebody~
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
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please read the rest.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there Rainbud and welcome. I love your username that you've chosen! Very pretty.
Well ..... you've landed smack bang in the middle of a forum where you are sure to feel at home. You're amongst a bunch of people who have experienced a similar upbringing to yours ....... and hopefully you will feel right at home like we all do!
You've certainly had your fair and unfair share of jdub stuff haven't you. I'm glad to read that you now have your own family ... because you have the chance to make sure your girls are not lost and lonely like you have been! With your husband's help ... you have already broken that cycle of jdub violence and indoctrination.
The fears of Armageddon can seem hard to shake at times but have some patience with yourself and you'll be able to slowly work that out of your psyche. The world is NOT ending any time soon. It's certainly NOT going to end the WBTS way ........ and if you look really closely at how you're feeling, you'll see for yourself that you are fearful because you have been TOLD over the years to be fearful. It's religious blackmail ... emotional blackmail ... with added fear on top. It's domestic violence really. The WBTS is the perpetrator of that violence .... they isolate people, they take away their capacity to think for themselves, they tell people what to think, what to say, what to do ... they encourage shunning of those considered not spiritually strong enough ..... I don't need to tell you more as you've lived it yourself!
You are free. You can make as many friends as you want. In the mean time ... if you are nervous about meeting new people ... do what I used to do .... FAKE it! Practice your conversation skills at school with the staff and other mums when you drop the kids off. When you're doing your grocery shopping and standing next to someone ... make a little comment or if they look like they can't find what they're looking for ... make a joke 'oh I can never find that either ...... I think they must move things when our backs are turned!'
Keep talking to your darling man and remember to be patient with yourself too ...................... old habits are hard to shake off but they can be shaken off with time, with love and with patience. I hope you enjoy your visits in here Rainbud ... it's a pleasure to have you with us!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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First off ((((big hugs)))) to you rainbud. Yes, we here understand the strange world of jw's. As I was reading your story I was thinking of the saying "the truth is stranger than fiction" and my family lif, though different, had many of the wacky elements as well.
I am with Cacky in the advise to read JWFacts. The JW doctrine might not have been as engrained in you as it was in me, third generation, 1970's to 1999. I will say that the JW religion doesn't much resemble the one I was in for parts of 40 years of my life but all the same, I am being treated as a full fledged apostate by family and old 'friends'. My family story is like a giant soap opera and so are a lot of the stories you will find here. It is totally sad but also...humorous if you choose to look at it that way. I think that when we get to a point where we see the ridiculousness of the religion then we can have some healthy laughs about it. You have so much going for you right now , really. You have more power than you realize because you got out! It takes a lot of courage to leave a cultlike mentality. You are stronger than you think 👍
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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My Breaking Point
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offlinesg75
My Breaking Point
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May 19 14 2:57 PM
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I've been out of the Witnesses for about 12 or 13 years now. Completely out, anyway. I was baptized when I was 14. Even then I knew I was making a huge mistake. I was too young to realize that I was letting myself in for a lifetime of rules and oppressive regulations. But I put up with it all, afraid of losing the only life I knew. When I was 18 or 19 I really began to despair of ever getting out and even thought of suicide. I was still living in my Witness mother's house and had to keep up appearances for the sake of peace. After I moved out, I stopped attending meetings on a regular basis. I would go just often enough to avoid trouble, but that was it. I didn't believe in my heart what they were saying, but part of me still half believed I would be butchered at Armageddon if I stopped being a Witness. (That fear used to give me many sleepless nights as a child, terrified that I would do something 'wrong' and Jehovah wouldn't love me anymore. My breaking point finally came when I was 26. It was at a circuit assembly, the talk right before lunch. I can't remember now what the talk was supposed to be about. One thing stands out in my mind. The speaker was talking about how Witnesses shouldn't waste time and money on charities; Jehovah was going to kill all those needy people at Armageddon if they didn't convert anyway, so why bother? The sheer callousness of that statement was like a kick in the guts; I couldn't believe I'd heard it. Then I was disgusted. And no one around me seemed to find anything wrong with what was said; they just sucked it up. At lunch I went out to the car (I'd ridden with someone else and had to wait for them) and refused to go back in. That was the last straw. I wanted no part of a god that would think that way. The last time I set foot in a Kingdom Hall was several years ago for the Memorial. What struck me then was how empty the whole ritual felt. I haven't been back since and don't miss it. A huge weight lifted off me the day I walked away and I don't want it back.
status offlineKBG
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HI SG75,
I could so relate to your story, I wasn't convinced either, but, I went ahead and got dipped at 15. What a mistake-a to make-a!
I remember a girl telling a joke in a restaurant about Catholic kittens and Jehovah's Witness kittens, the Catholic kittens had their eyes closed while the JW kittens had their eyes open. I was so embarrassed. She called it witnessing. The elders/ ministerial servants there didn't see anything wrong with it. I thought it just proved we were A-holes.
Welcome, glad you have some sense and compassion, world needs more of it.
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Hi there SG and welcome!
I can't say I blame you for being disgusted. I could never understand why charity was such a dirty word amongst the jdub faithful ... and it was worse when a little charity WITHIN the framework of my local hall would have been handy for those in need and even that wasn't allowed!
It's a doomsday religion ... cult ... or religious cult to give it the right description. People actively praying for the mass destruction of so many innocent people and all because they are told the rest of the non-jdub world are not worth saving! Ridiculous and callous approach to life ... and one that I am glad I walked away from all those years ago. My kids won't be stressing about whether they should be baptised or not. They won't have a whole bunch of sanctimonious types breathing down their necks watching their every move and judging them on every breath they take. My kids will grow up normal. And safe. And happy. And NORMAL!
You were too young to stand firm for what you wanted SG ... 14 is too young for any life changing decision to be made. Your parents should have known better than to encourage you ... and if anything should have advised you to wait until you were older. It's why so many people in the world ... even those in here ... are still tagged with that 'disfellowshipped' label. It's all about control not a commitment to faith. Train them up when they're young ... baptise them ... then scare the life out of them from that day on. You did well to escape when you did!
I hope you enjoy your visits in here ..... you'll find you're in a big group of people from all over the world ... who know EXACTLY how you've been feeling!!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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Welcome to the board, sg. I enjoyed reading about your experience.
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Hello sg and welcome :-)
Once you are on the outside looking back into the farce that purports to be a loving organisation, its hard to remember how it felt to the under the mind control, and constantly excusing their cruel and damaging behaviour!!
Just glad that you have escaped......even though we can never reclaim those lost years, we can do our best to embrace a life of freedom of thought, and try to use life as it was meant to be.....to be lived without having others belief systems imposed on us!! They don't have the first idea what true compassion or charity is about.........it is all about perpetuating their own lies and getting their members to follow their own skewed agenda!!
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Welcome, sg75!!! I hope you find this forum to be a soft place to land. :-)
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Thanks, StormyGirl. Its been nice to realize that I'm not alone.
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You will be glad to know that I was one that did not push my kids into baptism. I was already aware of a lot of things even when I was in the org. I felt the message of the kingdom and the great purpose to it all was more important than the nonsense I saw going on. (I am very tenacious) I had a 12 year old daughter when an elder approached me saying that she had said yes she wanted to be baptized ( I think they had a quota looking back - like I was in a really dead congregation and there were no "new" people coming in as they could not convince anyone to be to be witnesses- just resuscitation of children of JW's who had been lost in the world and were coming back disillusioned with life because they had never learned to function as human beings having been raised in the org)(( pardon my bitterness )) so I just looked straight at this elder and I said "but she also wants to be a mermaid". this was true. He was rendered speechless. My daughter who is now out recently told me "mom they hated you so much". I'm glad now. Seriously I know the charity thing. I once told a pioneer sister about a Catholic couple who were foster parents fro a JW boy who was in their care for abuse in the home. They took him to all the meetings out of respect for the boy's beliefs. As she said "Oh yeah all the goodie touchous etc etc. and something about people like that thinking they are doing God's work ....blah blah" at any rate I was shocked at her complete callousness for their extraordinary respect and humanity. This same pioneer sister had a miscarriage and had said that she didn't mind as it really wasn't her "focus". I wonder where she is now. As I said in another post I was at a circuit overseer's talk in the KH and he was going on and on about what perfection meant and how one day "eat a piece of fruit and die". I ran out of their like I was on fire. Yes there is a breaking point for us. There is a time when things become crystal clear. I am glad that we can talk like this.
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Ha! Awesome come back with 'but she also wants to be a mermaid' Woman! Absolutely brilliant come back! You are a star in not allowing anyone to railroad your kids!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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hey I didn't mean to be trouble but it just popped out. Once at a Watchtower I said that the elders "parroted". There was a deafening silence for several minutes after that!!! I was very much against the way they were pushing kids into baptism and then when they would screw up during their teenage years they would disfellowship them. It really was appalling. I could do a chapter on that subject. I know of a woman witness in such a case. It is 28 years later and she still does not talk to her df'd daughter but has to visit her grandchildren. Her daughter looks so sad. I found you can't really appeal to logic with them. Unless you actually see word for word in the Watchtower they can't even reason on the simplest subjects. They only recognize "authority" figures over logical and human feelings. My husband had been totally destroyed by the time he was 8 he believed he would die at Armageddon. Well it's all very complex. So little time...
status offlineJourney
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womanbeyondtime, I truly wish you were one of my neighbors and we could get together for coffee or tea once in a while. One thing I'd do is be very careful about when I took sips of my coffee or tea when you were talking. LOL I love that you protected your children so openly. I love that you said what made sense to them so blatantly. You did good! But as an ex JW, can you imagine how fun that would be to listen to those things and share other things too? LOVE IT!
I've been really down today. Your posts and the responses truly perked me up.
I know there was a lot more to what you said, but I thought those things were SO well placed and so brave of you to say. I was a wimp as I was leaving.
Thank you again. I really appreciated reading this thread to every person here.
Janet/Journey
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BTW, I really did see that sadness and the ways the elders and members behave. I did not mean to lessen those with my post. I was just so thrilled that you could get through that hell SO incredibly and amazingly well.
J/J
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Update on me!!
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offlinenobodyknows
Update on me!!
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Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this. I just felt the need to post, since there have been a few new developments in my fading journey. As some of you may already know, over the last 3 and a half years (soon after my divorce from a JW), I've been fading. It's been a huge emotional roller coaster, and a long process that I've had to be patient with, but I'm able to say that I've successfully faded. I somehow avoided getting DFed 3 times, just reproved, so that helped. I think the brothers in my congregation sympathized with me a bit, seeing as how I've had some mental issues growing up (severe OCD and anxiety) and they knew cutting off ties with everyone wouldn't be doing me any favors.
Interestingly tho, in my last meeting with them before I stopped going completely, I flat out told them I was questioning the bible and the org. All they did was encourage me to find the truth, whatever it was. I guess my elders were more passive than most, for which I'm thankful. I know many here have been DFed for that same thing.
Another thing I wanted to talk about is my current living situation. My boyfriend and I have gotten an apartment together, and my JW family knows about it, even helped us move. However, I think maybe I've gotten a little too comfortable with my situation. I posted something on Facebook about us cooking our first meal together in our new place, and a friend's (who also faded) elder father saw it, and started asking her questions (damn social media). But he went over his elders manual and decided there wasn't anything he could really do, so he let it go. It just reminded me that even tho I've become comfortable in my situation, I still need to keep my guard up. It really is unfortunate that I still can't post what I want, or say what I want because someone might be watching. A couple weeks ago, a group of JWs came in to the restaurant where I work. One of them was my maid of honor from my wedding 7 and a half years ago. She's a pioneer and such so we don't really speak. But we had a friendly conversation. She asked where I was living, so I just told her I had a roommate. It's sad that I can't speak openly about my life with my former best friend.
I just hope that I can keep this happy balance I've found for a long time to come. I have a great relationship with my family, despite them still being "in". But they've got open minds so maybe in the years to come I can plant seeds of doubt, more so than I already have. I'd love for my family to celebrate my future children's' birthdays, or for us to open presents under a Christmas tree together. Wouldn't that be the best?!
I've also been doing a lot more reading and research about the org. When I first started to fade, it was hard to do that. It just made me depressed. So I thought, well I'll just make my way out, focus on ME, then see about getting deeper into the facts of the religion. I always knew it was wrong, I just couldn't prove it. Now that I'm out, it's become much easier for me to read things and accept them. It's a little overwhelming to do it all at once, so I had to sort of take a step back and focus on one thing at a time so as not to drive myself crazy. I'm an artist by nature, I've never been much of a scholar so all these numbers and dates and facts are a lot to take in! But I'm getting there, slowly but surely. I'll probably never understand everything fully, I just want to educate myself enough to be able to provide answers if my family ever decides to ask. Just saying, "I KNOW IT'S WRONG!" isn't really enough anymore!
I'd just like to finish by saying thank you to everyone on this board. You guys were there when I had nowhere else to turn. I made some great friends, even met a few members. The ones I met aren't active on here anymore, but a lot of the ones I just chatted with still are, and I'm so thankful for that! Keep on encouraging, and I'll do my part to do the same!
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
status offlinesolitaire
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Sep 29 14 9:44 AM
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It's sad that I can't speak openly about my life with my former best friend.
That's it in a nutshell somebody!! How can we call our connections with any jw's 'relationships'............what sort of relationship is it when we have to hide things, to pretend to be somebody we are not....to have to think twice about natural statements and reactions!! smiley: ohwell
I know how depressing it can be, I have only one jw that I still am in contact with (sporadically)......but it is a rather strange and fraught experience, and also one-sided!! They feel totally free to tell me whatever they wish regarding the jw's and their whole jw lives........whilst I, like you, have to self-censor everything I say incase I upset their 'sensibilities' smiley: tired
I understand totally why you must do this at this time, but imo eventually these connections will run their course..............either you will say something that they decide makes you an 'apostate' and not to be communicated with, or you will become sick of not being able to be totally truthful and proud of who you are!!
I'm just glad that you seem happy in spite of this continuous annoyance.......and I hope things only get better for you, you have more courage in your little finger than all these judgemental brainwashed people have in their whole lives! Don't ever let them make you feel otherwise!!
Hugs
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Oct 1 14 9:38 PM
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Thanks, Sam. Nobody should have to hide who they truly are, and most of us have had to do it for years! When I have kids of my own, I will encourage them to think for themselves and be themselves no matter what any one else says. I wish I had been raised that way. My parents were very balanced, unlike a lot of JW families, but I still wasn't able to totally find peace with myself until I left. I'm rebellious and stubborn by nature, and I think it worked in my favor these last few years.
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
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I also have to watch what I post on facebook because of my jw daughters. That's just how it is with this org. I'm surprised that elder, who found out you were living with your boyfriend, didn't pursue the matter with your local elders. They usually do that. I hope things continue to go well for you. It sounds like things are good with your family. Maybe they are more independent minded than most jws.
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I'm also careful about what I post on FB. Elders do seem to be dropping things with inactives. However, I am certain that if I went back (I'm not) I would then be called in before a committee to go over all of the grievances. What a way to welcome me back. Enjoyed your post. Sorry to hear you went through a divorce, but things sound good now with your boyfriend and having successfully faded. Like you, I'm so appreciative of everyone in this forum!
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I'm surprised too, Cacky. I got really nervous about it. But I think he was more concerned with what his own daughter was doing behind his back than with my actions. She lives with her boyfriend too. Her mom knows, but her dad does not. So it's a little complicated. Also, my family is a lot more independent minded than most JWs. They always have been pretty balanced, but lately even more so since I'm dropping little hints whenever I can. I hate that we have to edit ourselves, I can't imagine having kids in the religion. I've read some of your posts, and I'm so sorry you've had to deal with the off and on shunning from your daughters. I hope things get better with that!
Figuring, I can't imagine going back and being dragged into yet another committee, seeing as how I've had to endure numerous ones since I was 15. I think my head would explode. Are you fading or did you disassociate, get DFed, what's your status?
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Oct 3 14 5:23 PM
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I have successfully faded, at least for now. No one seems to be tracking me down.. I am not DFd. I still talk to my fam and have a reasonable relationship, but I can tell they limit their association with me.
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Yeah Figure, That happened to me too when I faded. They basically mark you in their minds as bad association.
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Figuring and Psalmist, good to know. My family has made it clear that they don't like my choices but they haven't limited their association with me and I'm totally surprised by it. I just knew I was going to lose them when I started to make my way out. The only time they limit their association with me is when they're attending or hosting some get-together with a lot of JWs. They don't usually invite me, not because they don't want me there, but others would probably feel awkward around me. But I get it, and frankly I'm okay with that because who wants to be in that situation anyway? Lol I always hated those "gatherings". Although when my fam throws one it's usually pretty fun. They have a karaoke machine. Now THAT is fun to watch.
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
status offlineApostateProud
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Oct 7 14 10:21 AM
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You sound a lot like me with the research aspect. It took my 2 and a half years of being DF'ed to be able to start researching the truth about them. It can be overwhelming and almost addictive at the same time. I try to stay balanced and read short amounts at a time. I am also an artist and painting has helped me cope and bring me back to reality. The part I am really interested in researching is about Witnesses' past and the false prophesies. JWs make such a big deal about taking every holiday and religion back to its origins...except their own. Few Witnesses know what Russell taught and most will even tell you he isn't the founded. Sure he lead the first group of Bible Students and sure he sorta started it all but none of his beliefs are ours.... just like many Christians today aren't celebrating Christmas to bring honor to pagan gods. If JWs hold them accountable for histories centuries ago, shouldn't we hold them accountable for a history of only decades ago?
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Oct 7 14 11:52 AM
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You have a really good point, AP. The same thing could be said in regards to weddings and anniversaries. Almost everything about the wedding celebration can be traced back to so-called "pagan" origins. So if we can't celebrate holidays because of that, then wouldn't bridesmaids and rings and bouquets at weddings be off limits as well? You can't pick and choose what you believe and who you hold accountable. Russell was a Freemason for goodness sakes, but nobody ever brings that shit up because it's inconvenient for them.
"(actually you are a wonderful SOMEBODY!)" ~ Punk
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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................. way to go Wonderful Somebody woohoo
Thanks for the update ..... I actually read it the other day but life has been a bit hectic here of late as you know. I am SO pleased for you! If your jdub family members haven't shut you out totally ... it means you have been true to yourself and they can see that. My family shut me out for a few months but I kept on telling them I was still the same me just minus their religion ...... so sometimes it can pay off just walking out (in my case) or fading out (in your case).
How exciting that you can now live life as it should be lived ...... rather than constantly live with that dark gloomy pessimistic 'we're all gonna die if we don't do the right thing' jdub cloud over your pretty little head!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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