192 Responses to Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
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Brie says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:37 pm
I am Brie, Thank you so much for writing this! I love this website and have used it many times! I am honored to be part of it!
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sam says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:47 pm
This video was awsome, im so glad it has gone viral. Great job Brie!
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Terri O'Sullivan says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Well done Brie. Your message will be an inspiration to so many other exJWs out there. When I watched your video and then read all the lovely comments written at the end of the Independent newspaper and all the other sites it was on it made me realise how much love there is in the world for people who have gone through what we went through. Thank you for being so brave for speaking up! x
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Cedars says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:04 pm
You’re a hero Brie!
I’m glad you’ve seen this article. It’s important you understand the magnitude of what you’ve accomplished, and how much we all appreciate your bravery. I’m proud that this website has been helpful for you! :)
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Mama Joy says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:13 pm
Bravo! I’m so proud of you for speaking out and I know God is proud of you too! They are wolves in sheeps clothing and you no longer have the wool pulled over your eyes! Celebrate today and every day you are free!
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Darlene Alexander says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:36 pm
I admire your bravery, Brie! I know how hard it must of been to get up there and speak about such personal subjects, but what a wonderful job you did! The more we can expose JWs as the dangerous cult they are, the more people we can keep from being mislead by them – and hope we can help to pull people out as well. We are so proud of you!
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JJ says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Brie, you’re awesome!
I only wish that I had figured out this cult when I was your age!
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David says:
May 27, 2015 at 7:05 am
Brie thank you soo much for having the courage and taking the time to put together such an honest, open speech. This video has touch soo many people already and will be a testament to the damage the Jehovah’s Witnesses have and continue to do. I wish you the best in life!
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Sam says:
May 27, 2015 at 7:58 am
Brie,
Your presentation was beautiful and courageous.
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Excelsior! says:
May 27, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Congratulations, Brie!
Your honest and compassionate speech has touched many hearts, including mine.
I hope your Graduation Day is wonderful and I wish you all the luck in the world in your studies at University!
Welcome to your freedom to choose. It’s a wild ride but a satisfying one.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Rainbow says:
May 28, 2015 at 1:00 am
You go girl!
Want to really hit the media? Send your video to the Ellen Degeneres Show. She often features students.
Thank you for you courage Brie! You are loved.
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M. says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:38 pm
Well done brave lady!
One person can make difference!
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anonymous says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:45 pm
Brie’s video was posted just 4 days ago and it’s now well over 400,000 views. I don’t think the Society can sweep this one under the rug and everything she said in that video can be backed up in Watchtower publications. There is no way the Society can say that she’s an apostate “liar”. It is too bad she only had 15 minutes because she didn’t touch on the 2 witness rule for child abuse and she didn’t touch on blood but what she packed into that 15 minutes knocked the ball out of the park!!!
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JJ says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:47 pm
Yup, hundreds of thousands of views for Brie’s video. This is the Watchtower Society’s worst nightmare-come-true! How can the WT say that a young girl is an ‘apostate’?!? How can they claim that this young girl doesn’t know what she is talking about when these are her own experiences?!?
Oh boy, I bet there will be heated, round table discussions on damage control at Watchtower headquarters.
It will be interesting to see what happens now.
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William Niles says:
May 26, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Well done Brie, you have stood bravely. The average JW will look at your video that has been posted on the medial and label you as a liar/slanderer, etc.. Anytime, ANYTHING bad is said about JWs then to them it’s all nothing but lies..but if that same media ramps/raves about JWs then they have no problem plastering it all over jw.org. What they deem as truth is only when it suits THEIR purpose. Your comments hit the nail on the head and you speak absolute truth and JWs are simply living in denial. In their own Elder’s manual, it says clearly that if Elders discover that a husband committed adultery and learn that he lied about the extent of his adultery, they have been instructed NOT to tell his wife about it and will simply say, “we encourage you to talk with your husband”. So in a case where the woman decides to forgive him and sleeps with him, but then afterwards learns that he lied about the extent of his adultery; from that point on she can’t divorce him without being disfellowshipped because when she resumed relations with him she technically forgave him…the problem is that the Elders KNOWINGLY withheld vital information from her that would have helped her to make a decision in the first place! In the case that the woman commits adultery, he CAN sit in on her committee, but they WON’T allow her to sit in on his judicial committee. There are well-documented cases where the Elders knew that a man had molested a child…but did NOT tell his wife that her own husband molested a child.
If you are a JW–you will label this brave young woman as someone who is attacking you, slandering you, etc.. There is simply TOO MUCH irrefutable proof that what Bree says is true…and you’re own Bible clearly says that it only takes 2-3 witness to establish the matter as truth. There are literally THOUSANDS of witnesses to establish these matters as truth….WAKE UP PEOPLE.
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William Niles says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:03 pm
Sorry, bad typing. I meant to say that anytime the very same media who they say slanders them/lies about them publishes anything good about them, then all of the sudden they have no problem posting it all over jw.org, sharing the experience in assemblies, etc.. It’s only what THEY establish as truth and only what they want people to hear.
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Designer Stubble says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:08 pm
Thanks Brie – You are our Hero. Loved your video and your letter at the friendly atheist. Your parents can be very proud of you. Happy to read you will be off to University.
John – Good to write up on this. Positive blog.
It will take time, but the WTBTS cannot withstand the power that Internet and Social Media gives to our voices.
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Innocent Son says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:35 pm
Brie, I applaud your bravery, I hope that this inspires many other to come forward and tell the truth about the Org. Because of the Internet and websites like this many others will be able to see behind the shadows and break free….Deep respect and much love to you and your family.
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Grace says:
May 26, 2015 at 2:48 pm
@Brie,
Bravo, you have pressed the start button, the missing link that will get to the masses. Why? Because many other religions will have to stand up & look at the way that they are treating their followers as well. I have a young friend who is your age going through something similar (but not as cruel) with her religion which is orthodox.
You give me hope that when I am no longer here, your generation will be able to grow up from the stifleness of archaic, patriarchal religions.
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Ted says:
May 26, 2015 at 3:05 pm
I listened to Brie’s video a number of times, and was very
proud of her. At certain points she had to fight back tears
but continued on to give a clear, factual and honest
exposition of a hierarchical and sometimes cruel “Religion”?
Women at the very bottom and the GB at the top, who
countenance no dissent.
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Pickled brain says:
May 26, 2015 at 3:36 pm
@Brie.THIS IS A BRILLIANT SPEECH Highlighting the REAL TRUTH what goes on in this Religion with WOMEN Treated like Second Class Citizens & Yes the LOVE is CONDITIONAL!!!
This video by Brie is a Brilliant Answer to Andrew who commented on the post before this one that his 4 children were well adjusted kids. Well if anyone would like to read my response to his comments,please feel free to look at my reply & I am open to be corrected.
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Pickled brain says:
May 26, 2015 at 3:43 pm
@ William Niles . REALLY ENJOYED Your COMMENT about how the Elders Manuel’Shepherd the Flock’ TREAT WOMEN as THIRD RATE CITIZENS ‘ !! IT IS DISGUSTING & OUTRAGEOUS The way WOMEN are treated Except when the GB want them to be Pioneers so the women can peddle the Literature!!
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William Niles says:
May 27, 2015 at 9:20 am
@ Pickled brain: It’s those kinds of things that WT doesn’t want young women, like Brie, to know about. I openly showed my own wife those points in the Elders Manual…she simply couldn’t not believe what she was reading. I couldn’t either and I had to read it 2-3 times to let it sink in. Or, how about letting an appointed Elder/M.S. serve in the congregation…even if after he confesses to have committed a disfellowshipping offense years before and not even lift a single finger against him? But yet, with innocent women like Brie, the won’t hesitate to disfellowship, label them Apostate., etc? If you read the Elder’s manual regarding those points I mention, you’ll see that there’s not ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE quoted to justify their reasoning on those particular points…the only thing I can think of that justifies it is immoral men in Brooklyn who are THEMSELVES guilty of the very things that they wrote about and refused to confess them to anyone. And they will label anyone, like Brie, as a liar/slanderer who exposes the hypocrisy. There’s a reason why they tell JWs not to listen to folks like Brie…for fear of discovering the REAL truth.
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Bryan linkoski says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm
How fitting that “the redemption song” by Bob Marley came on just as I was reading this. It’s a blessing when one is released from mental slavery from such a stifling existence. It may be that the order or there disorder is rapidly changing. Knowledge is power and it takes great courage to do whT this young lady did.
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Michael says:
May 26, 2015 at 4:32 pm
You have my deepest respect Brie.Thank you for you courage.Your video brought tears to me and my wife.We have experience the loss of our families and 2 of our children.I shared the video on my Facebook page.We keep hoping things will change.
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anonymous says:
May 26, 2015 at 5:21 pm
If anybody who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses does not believe that the Watchtower teaches that it is considered fornication if a girl or woman doesn’t defend herself to the death if they were raped and survived and then if they do survive being raped, they would be considered as having committed fornication unless they can prove to a committee of 3 men that they screamed and fought against the rape and didn’t invite the rape by her dress and being alone in dangerous areas, this is directly from the Watchtower magazine, 1968 June 1st article under the title of “The Christian’s View of Self-Defense”. This religion is not only a dangerous religion to belong to because of the blood issue and having to die rather than allow being to be raped, but it is very dangerous to married women because women can not leave an abusive husband and remarry (as Brie brought out in her wonderful speech) and if they do remarry, they will be disfellowshipped for adultery, making it almost impossible to get away from an abusive husband.
Women in the Witness religion are 2nd class citizens in every way possible as Brie brought out so amazingly in her speech.
This is from the 1968 Watchtower on pages 347-348
under the subheading: Attempted rape.
“If you are a Christian woman, what should you do if, in spite of all precautions, you are set upon by a rapist? If you cannot deter him by reasoning, or by calling on the name of Jehovah, then what? As a Christian you are under obligation to resist. This resistance includes screaming and creating as much disturbance as possible to try and frighten off the attacker and attract help. If the attack continues and you cannot break free to flee, then you would be justified even to inflict damage on your assailant if necessary. Resistance is imperative, because the rapist is after, not just money, but your virtue. An issue of integrity to Jehovah’s laws is involved here. So by no means would it be proper quietly to submit to rape, as that would be consenting to fornication. – 1 Thess. 4:3
The principle is like that set out at Deuteronomy chapter 22. There it states: “In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, you must also bring both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die.” Why would the girl have died under that Law covenant? The scripture continues: “The girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city.” If she did not make the effort to scream, she was viewed as consenting to fornication. But if the woman screamed and resisted and nonetheless was overpowered, then she was not guilty of complicity: “The girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.” Deut. 22:23-27.
Would it be different if the man had a weapon and threatened to kill you if you did not submit? No, the Scriptures plainly state that Christians are under obligation to “flee from fornication.” (1 Cor. 6:18) It is true that you face the possibility of death in this case. But you have no guarantee that if you meekly submit, your assailant will not kill you anyhow to avoid identification.”
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Mike dennis says:
May 26, 2015 at 5:59 pm
Great speech. Well written and well thought out. It started out very factual, good background. It showed sincerity and genuine concern. My best wish is that my grown sons wake up and someday see the org as it really is. This effort by Brie was from the heart. If it wakes just one person up, it’s worth all her distress in making this.
I know that Brie may not be fully prepared to live her new life apart from WT and old ‘ friends ‘, but I sure wish her the best. Brave girl will become a great woman. Thank you, aloha
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Ken says:
May 26, 2015 at 8:02 pm
“The final straw came during in 9th grade when one of my friends and I went to the beach. I had been texting a boy from another JW congregation and sent him a picture of us on the beach… which meant we were in bikinis. Unfortunately, his mother went through his phone and came across our “horrible” photo. It led to Church elders coming over to my house to counsel me.
They told me I was guilty of making him masturbate. They even made me admit I got him to do it. That was never my intention, obviously, but having that conversation with Church leaders may be the most embarrassing moment of my life. I don’t think my face has ever turned so red. They made me feel dirty for enjoying my time at the beach and chatting with a friend — my other picked up on that, too, and couldn’t believe I was in trouble with the congregation for the crime of wearing a bathing suit.
After that, I was done. I no longer wanted to identify as a Jehovah’s Witness.”
I sorry to be critical but Brie were embarrassed when you said that quoted above to your classmates? I think although the Elders were stupid to counsel you over the bikini photo which in this day and age is called sexting , it may have looked innocent , but the dummy elders it was serious enough for them jump in . The boy’s mother in the logical sense should have talked to your mother about it . Never involve the elders in anything .
I was DF because I and my parents faded out of the sect after my poor father had a blood transfusion . I was lucky that I never was baptized as a teen , my parents did . It amazes me that petty things are judged as “sins” while molestation is swept under the rug in this sect these days . However I did share many things with you as I grew up ,with such as isolation that I still fight today.
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Shanti says:
May 27, 2015 at 5:03 pm
Sending a picture of friends in bathing suits at the beach is not “sexting”.
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Brent says:
May 26, 2015 at 11:22 pm
One thing is for sure, the theocratic ministry school did a great job teaching this brave young woman how to speak in public. Great to see she is putting it to good use as well. Good on you girl.
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life's about choices says:
May 27, 2015 at 12:41 am
brought a tear to my eye..Thank you brie…We have 2 older kids than you…fortunately they laugh now and we’re very close with some great friends….you will be ok…..go enjoy life from this day on..xx
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Bad Penny says:
May 27, 2015 at 1:52 am
Dear Brie –
YOU ARE AMAZING! You have been so brave!
We all love you so much for what you have done.
I’m so glad that you are in touch with JW Survey so that you can find out all TTATT, but mostly that we are all cheering you on.
Go forward now with your young life, look to the future, try not to look behind because the past is painful, as we have all discovered.
I have often thought, how can one individual make a difference to how people view this religion?
Girl, you just did it!
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Bad Penny says:
May 27, 2015 at 2:33 am
BRIE –
Just read your ‘Friendly atheists’ article.
You will probably be summoned to a judicial hearing. You don’t have to suffer the indignity! Just tell them you no longer want to be under the authority of men in suits. If you disassociate yourself it will possibly take a week before they announce it, which may give you the time to graduate before the rest of your family shun you.
When I and my husband became witnesses, we never realised that higher education was a no no! We found out when our son went to university. He was advised by a C.O. to give up his course and reach out for ‘spiritual’ goals. Thankfully he resisted the advice, and with our full backing, went on to gain a first at Uni. He now has a great job and a nice car, all he wants now is a great lady to share his life – he never could find one in the congregation. Pity he didn’t meet you!
All of us have now left the stranglehold of JW dom.
So, be strong, do well in your career, I’m sure that you will succeed.
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Andrea says:
May 27, 2015 at 4:12 am
Brie is a wonderful inspiration of courage and maturity in the way she approached her subject. I can say that I wasn’t that mature even at college-going age, nor as brave to openly talk about my upbringing or religion even with good friends outside the org. I hope she’ll open up the eyes of many who may be sticking their head in the sand and hoping that all the truthful and bad publicity about the JWs will go away.
I’d like to however refute @Brent’s well-meant comment that she has somehow become a good public speaker thanks to the “Theocratic Ministry School”. It *may* have helped, however, it’s more likely that it was thanks to a good education and how own talent and/or hard work. Attributing this to a witness education only takes away from Brie’s well-earned praise.
If there is any request to her about “judicial” hearings or committees, I would not be recommending that she disassociate herself or give them any answers, unless she wishes to do so herself. Brie has obviously managed to think for herself and doesn’t need a group of religious bullies (some elders) to tell her what to do or hopefully feel any need to play up to them, do their bidding or reply to them in any way. As has been pointed out on Cedar’s and jwfacts websites, doing so because they tell you too only gives them more power over you. There’s no need to play along.
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alanv says:
May 27, 2015 at 4:39 am
I will be watching closely the number of views this video has. Today (wednesday 27th May) it is up to 529000. Truly amazing and great that a young person is able to help so many others see the bad side to this cult
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Ted says:
May 27, 2015 at 5:18 am
Brie was chastised by elders for sending beach photo
of herself and friend in bikini’s to a JW, boy acquaintance.
Had Brie been a well known celebrity, no action would have
been taken. The tennis sisters, who publicly declare they are
JWs, both have posed nude for a well known magazine.
Has anyone heard of them being reprimanded ?
Not being baptised is not a get out, as such ones can be
“disassociated” for “Unchristian” conduct.
So why is the org, willing to drop its own immutable laws
where celebrities are concerned ? They don’t want their
cruel practices of disfellowshipping and shunning exposed.
Brie wonders whether she, will be disfellowshipped, in view
of the publicity her exposition has caused?
Somehow I think not !
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alan says:
May 27, 2015 at 5:32 am
How true is everything that Brie says. I came into the “Truth” in 1969 aged 18 and I introduced my future wife into it and we were married in 1972. We have 4 children. My oldest girl [born 1972] was raped just after she turned 16. Someone we knew [not a JW] asked if she could babysit his children while he took his wife to the hospital. She didn’t want to do it but I [stupidly] persuaded her and as a result she was raped that evening by him. We went to the police and also the Elders. Their only concern was had she resisted and screamed. She said that it was impossible to scream or resist as he was stronger than she was and also because he had a knife and also his hands were around her throat. I was informed that seeing that she was an unbaptized publisher, I had to bear the guilt and that a committee would decide if I was guilty of aiding and abetting the rape as I had allowed her to babysit. They also informed me that I could possibly be disfellowshipped as by going to the police, I had brought the name of Jehovah and his organisation into disrepute.
My immediate reaction was to protest and remind them that the rape had already been reported in the newspapers and that I might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb and that I would inform the reporter that I was being thrown out of the “religion” and explain why. Needless to say that the Elders climbed down but I was removed from all responsibility in the KH and a talk was given to the congregation stressing that worldly authorities have no part to play in Jehovah’s organisation. Did this put me off? No it did not I am sad to say.
We moved congregations but it was no better. My children were considered a danger to the others, so much so that my second child [a daughter] became so rebellious over the way we were being treated that she became hostile to the organisation. She was 13 yrs old. The Elders advised me to “get rid” of her as she was a danger to my other children so I telephoned the local authorities and had her placed into a children’s home. I did all of this as I truly believed that it was what Jehovah wanted. Now I realise what a clutz I was.
In 1991 my wife and I sat down with the other 3 children and explained that we were leaving the organisation. We already knew that the 3rd child had no interest in the “Truth” but we were concerned about my son who was only 10 at the time. We explained that we would allow him to go to the KH and go on field service if he so wished to do as we would find someone to take him. He thought for a moment and his reply was “If I leave with you, does that mean that I can have Birthday and Christmas presents?” I said, if that’s what you want. He then replied “good as I know what I want for my first birthday present.” The rest is history apart from that my daughter who was raped had no counselling as the Elders would not allow it and now lives in the USA [I am in the UK] and refuses to have any contact with me. She tells everyone that I am dead and in her eyes I am. I have to accept that and do so but I know that the trauma she went through is what makes he r think that.
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Excelsior! says:
May 27, 2015 at 1:54 pm
Sir,
Whatever happened to the poor child you put into care? Is she ok?
You have my sympathy, sir. As do your family.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Charles Huff says:
May 27, 2015 at 6:21 am
I’m proud of Brie for making a stand, Brie, if you’re reading this, way to go my friend.
What Brie has done is show others that making a stand can change things and shown us that we can stand on our own.
After receiving over 400k hits on her video, we now know that interest is in the subject and we can expose the JWs like no time ever before. If enough people make a stand, then it may reverse disfellowship the JWs and can possibly lead to their downfall.
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David says:
May 27, 2015 at 7:33 am
Well done Brie! You have been very brave and effective in exposing the shameful bully character of jw.org
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Pickled brain says:
May 27, 2015 at 9:32 am
MOST JWs especially Young ones are TRAPPED in the Organisation because of the Encouragement to get BAPTISED at 11,12,13 or younger & then FRIGHTENED of LOSING FAMILY & FRIENDS if they ASK GENUINE Questions which a PRE- TEEN getting Baptised would never have thought of!!
SO WELL DONE BRIE for INSPIRING many Young JWs to Have the COURAGE to Just HONESTLY QUESTION Their BELIEFS!!! & Be REALLY AWARE of JW TRUE BEGINNINGs & HISTORY!
If WE CAN STARVE the ORGANISATION of YOUNG BLOOD?? ( I Don’t Know if that’s the Appropriate Word) Then the Organisation will SLOWLY DIE with only the OLD & DIEHARDS Remaining!!
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 27, 2015 at 9:40 am
Does anyone have a link download the latest Elder Book? Shepherd the Flock, I think…KS 12 or 16 is it?
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 27, 2015 at 10:30 am
Nevermind, found it on JW leaks.
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StrongHaiku says:
May 27, 2015 at 10:15 am
Brie, you are truly remarkable.
When I was a JW at your age (over 30 years ago), I did not have the self-awareness, intellectual integrity, and courage to do what you did. For that, I am truly ashamed. I hope others take up your example. Nicely done.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 27, 2015 at 10:32 am
Strong–I don’t think you should feel shame. Indoctrination isn’t something we can always avoid, especially for those born into it. And, even when doubts are there in a young person, the consequences you were trained to avoid are terrifying for youths and often prevent rebellion.
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Cedars says:
May 27, 2015 at 11:04 am
I’ve updated the numbers cited in the article to reflect the fact that Brie’s video is now comfortably past the half-million threshold.
Amazing!
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Elka Tire says:
May 27, 2015 at 12:04 pm
Cedar, if I send you the Spanish translation for the video, could you add it?
Thanks.
El Kato
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Cedars says:
May 27, 2015 at 2:16 pm
Yes :)
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M. says:
May 27, 2015 at 4:08 pm
All together we are strong. This should continue!
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Elka Tire says:
May 27, 2015 at 12:04 pm
I meant the spanish subtitles!
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brandnew says:
May 27, 2015 at 3:23 pm
New word : BRIE BRAVE.
I hope to be more ” BRIE BRAVE” in the following years to come.
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JWIntellect says:
May 27, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Brie > Governing Body
BRIE 2016!
Thank you very much, Brie, for having the courage to stand up and speak the truth about what goes on in this highly secretive religion.
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minion says:
May 27, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Brie, well done faithful mate!
Talk about doubling your talents and minas, well done faithful mate!
This must be Jehovah’s blessing and hand moving the view counter.
Brie, I truly believe most of us have contributed to the effect of moving the view counter by creative means. That being said, you just don’t know how moved and touched I have been. I may have a larger Business network than most, and they got a copy of your video, and I have also ask to “pass it forward”. . . . Together we can move mountains.
You never know who may be dropping by or calling you. You never know.
I predict within 8 hours from now you will peak at 600,000.
Currently your at 560,655
Your average per 24 hour movement is 100,000 views.
This might be the beginning – for the right cause.
Keep strong, stay focus, seek peace, keep hope alive and courage is the conquest of fear!
and Brie, Congrats Senior 2015 !!
.
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Worthy says:
May 27, 2015 at 10:56 pm
Brie, I’m so glad you made that decision to speak up against the treatment of women and children in the Org.
You are making a huge difference and educating so many as to the realities of what really goes on behind those plastered smiles they see at their front doors holding the watchtower and awake.
I hope this is just the beginning to what we will hear from you. You have a bright future ahead of you and I truly hope for your sake when you walk the stage you have all your loved ones cheering you on. If not, just remember you have all of us cheering you on in spirit!! Congratulations, and welcome to your ” new normal “
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Everyday Explorer says:
May 28, 2015 at 6:22 am
Well done to Brie, a remarkable and inspirational activist! Our voices are growing and reaching more and more people, fellow consciousness-raisers. How liberating to see TTATT (the truth about the ‘Truth’) being exposed time and time again. Let’s all carry on keeping up the pressure in our individual ways. Day by day, we’re getting there!
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Pickled brain says:
May 28, 2015 at 7:23 am
@Brie . ABSOLUTELY STUNNING. You YOUNG LADY Have Eloquently & ACCURATELY have Stated the REAL TRUTH what it is like for POOR WOMEN in this CRUEL ORGANISATION!!
I watched it for a Second Time your Speech!!
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!
YOU WILL WAKE UP MANY,MANY YOUNGSTERS & WOMEN of All Ages to Finally make a Stand & NOT PUT UP with THIS SUBJUGATION of Women RULED & DICTATED to by 7 ARROGANT MEN in NEW YORK!!’
RISE UP SISTERS & BE BOLD & Follow the EXAMPLE of BRIE!!!
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Kat says:
May 28, 2015 at 7:04 am
Thank you Brie, you really held your own on such an emotional issue, you presented your speech with control, you did not sound hateful or bitter something that could turn many of, but rather showed class and intelligence, you spoke also from your heart and showed a loving caring concern for JW. Thank you so much, I hope all goes well for you with your family before your day. x
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Pickled brain says:
May 28, 2015 at 7:27 am
@Brie . I Forgot to Add that WITHOUT WOMEN the JW Organisation WOULD CRUMBLE OVERNIGHT!!
Because the VAST Number of PIONEERS are SISTERS who conduct Bible Studies & Also Have a Great Influence on their Children as they grow up to baptism!!
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David says:
May 28, 2015 at 10:22 am
This is soo very true. My biggest influences in the borg were women who were long time pioneers. They would have been wonderful Elders, CO’s etc. Perhaps there would have been better emphasis placed on caring for young people had they allowed women to serve in equal capacity as men do. Which by the way is how the scripture describes how Holy Spirit was poured out in the first century. Somehow God’s Spirit was mistakenly given in equal measure to women. Silly Holy Spirit, don’t you know that you are going against the Governing Body! /endrant.
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Kat says:
May 28, 2015 at 7:42 am
I agree Pickled, the vast amount of work in the ministry is done by women, the brothers say its because men have to work and provide for families or have many more responsibilities in the congregation, but there are many more women JW than males, and for many single women they have to provide for themselves, and in some cases women without husbands with children have to provide for them as well as being the spiritual head, they have to do both the male and female work in the family.
There are more women in the org than men always been that way unless JW are having more male children than female then that takes decades to catch up.
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anonymous says:
May 28, 2015 at 8:07 am
Brie gave 3 women’s experiences that she knows of how women are subjugated in the Watchtower and abused. In the 1972 Watchtower January 1st article page 31 on questions from the readers, the question was: “Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?”
The final answer to that question was no and this is the Watchtower’s answer why it is that the innocent mate is not fee to remarry: “While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.” (What it was saying here is that since a child couldn’t be produced this way, then it wasn’t fornication and grounds for a scriptural divorce.)
This same policy that was discussed there of the Watchtower organization goes back to at least the 1950’s so it had been over at least 20 years that if a woman either caught her husband having sex with another man or animal, that she was not free to remarry scripturally as the man had not broken the marriage bond.
There were women who this had happened to up until the year of 1972 at least and so while they could leave their husbands, they were not free to remarry or else they would have been disfellowshipped and shunned.
This was cruel treatment for finding out that their husbands had had sex with animals or another man. If the husband had had sex with another woman, then the wife was free to remarry without getting disfellowshipped.
Just as Brie brought out in her speech, when a person finds themselves in a situation like that or any other situation like that, they will get absolutely no help from the Organization or the congregation and are left to pick up the pieces by themselves. Does this sound reasonable in any way? Many women weren’t aware that the Society could do this to a woman until they saw that question from the readers in that 1972 Watchtower.
Ray Franz was on the Governing Body at the time and even though he went along with that first ruling in the January Watchtower, it didn’t seem right to him and he started researching the topic and by the end of the year, his uncle, who was the president of the Society at the time, agreed with him that changed it’s view and decided that yes, if a person found their mate having sex with another of the same sex or an animal, that it would be pornea and grounds for a scriptural divorce as brought out in the December 15, 1972 Watchtower page 767. The Governing Body disfellowshipped Ray Franz but if it hadn’t been for him being on the Governing Body at the time, who knows? They might still teach such a backward and stupid doctrine.
Ask yourself this question. How could God be directing the Watchtower organization if during all those years, the Watchtower was condemning the innocent mate to shunning if they had divorced their husband and remarried? Was the Society teaching lies during all that time? Why would God be telling the Society lies and forcing it’s followers to follow those lies and if not be disfellowshipped and shunned?
Ask yourself this question. How would you know when it’s a lie or when it’s the truth then? At what point or year, can you decide which is the truth or a lie since during all those years, the Society either wasn’t listening to Jehovah or Jehovah wasn’t talking through them?
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Pickled brain says:
May 28, 2015 at 8:32 am
@Anonymous. VERY ,VERY WELL PUT your Argumentation back in 1972 was Farcical on why Women couldn’t scripturally divorce if they found their husband having SEX with Another MAN or TABITHA the CAT or … ROVER the DOG !! I mean if the GB are SPIRIT DIRECTED then My NAME is Babylon the Great ??? MUST BE FUN RIDING the ‘WILD BEAST’!!!
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Exhausted says:
May 28, 2015 at 10:09 am
At the time that the Society was condoning those things
Would it not hold true that if a woman had her tubes
Tied or a hysterectomy she would have been absolved
Of a fornication committee had she erred sexually???
After all, she could not reproduce could she? The answer
Is obvious since women were subjugated to the lowest
Form of creature in the eyes of those men.
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anonymous says:
May 28, 2015 at 11:29 am
@Exhausted, in the 1975 Watchtower pages 158-160 a woman couldn’t get a hysterectomy unless she had had numerous c-sections and so could die if she got pregnant again and men couldn’t be sterilized either unless their wife’s health was in serious danger of getting pregnant again. If either of them got sterilized for any other reason, the man would lose his privileges in the congregation.
By, 1985, the Society said it was up to the couple to use sterilization as a means of birth control (because from 1975-1985 some men’s sterilizations could be reversed) but they couldn’t talk about it to anybody else in the congregation so that others in the congregation wouldn’t “lose respect” for them (May 1, 1985 Watchtower page 31)
Here is one more case where the Society feels they have a right to stick their noses into women’s personal business. The Society has always told women they are allowed to take birth control pills but if they wanted a hysterectomy, the woman had to answer to the Society for it and if they had a hysterectomy, the woman had to convince the elders that if she got pregnant again that it would kill her.
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JJ says:
May 28, 2015 at 7:07 pm
I always wondered, “Why would the GB, the elders or any other Jehovah’s Witness care if you used birth control, if you got divorced or what kind of sex you had and with whom?!?”
I mean really, why go through all the trouble to think about it, investigate and then chastise someone??? Who could be bothered???
Is it the sense of power that makes these small men worry so much about what you do when you are naked? Do they really feel that God cares about this or that?
Even though I really wanted to ‘reach out’ and help, and I enjoyed giving talks, I never wanted to hear about someone’s private lives especially if there were matters that were sensitive or embarrassing. (I would have told anyone who was having weird sex to say some Hail Mary’s and Our Fathers)
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airborne says:
May 28, 2015 at 10:37 am
What a powerful video. Amazing the courage she has at such a young age.
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Pickled brain says:
May 28, 2015 at 11:47 am
@Kat. YOU Are SO RIGHT! Women are Hit with a Double Whammy!! They are in many instances are the MAIN BREADWINNERS & DO the MAJORITY of the Preaching Work as there are SO MANY Broken Homes in the Truth nowadays .Its CRAZY how Many Stepfamilies there are & two married couples in our congregation in their 60s have separated & living in separate accommodation but still in the same congregation & both still answering in the Watchtower & in the field ministry!!
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danman says:
May 28, 2015 at 11:51 am
What struck me was the respect that Brie’s fellow students paid her while delivering her speech. There was not any snickering, or rudeness displayed.
Obviously Brie had the respect of her peers prior to delivering this awesome expose! You are truly an ‘honor’ student. Thanks for the effort and personal sacrifice in putting yourself on the line. Courage is the proper word.
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Rosie says:
May 28, 2015 at 12:20 pm
Brie, you are to be applauded. You delivered a very heartfelt speech. It must have taken great strength to speak about something so personal.
It was years after I left the Org, before I could even mention the words “Jehovah’s Witness” without feeling complete shame and humiliation, such was the stigma I felt at having been a JW.
I really empathise with you over your experience with the Elders after the beach photo. They are so quick to turn even the most innocent thing into something dirty and sex related. (I think it only reflects what is in their own hearts and minds).
On one occasion as a 16yr old at a convention I was seen talking to a young single brother from a different congregation. It was all very innocent, if I recall correctly, I think we were actually discussing our favourite Bryan Adams song!! (No doubt discussing worldly music was a sin in itself; they weren’t so liberal in my day). But I was swooped upon; dragged away to my embarrassment and treated as though I had been up to all sorts of shenanigans with him, and “my behaviour” then got brought up at a later Elders meeting. Very humiliating, and damaging for a young girl! Of course, nothing was said to the young brother – I was the one made out to be the “Temptress!”
By the way, I passed your video to a friend of mine who has no JW background. She too was very moved by it and told me that she thought you came across as a lovely girl and that you had delivered a powerful message.
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Charles Costante says:
May 28, 2015 at 2:56 pm
“On one occasion as a 16yr old at a convention I was seen talking to a young single brother from a different congregation. ……….. But I was swooped upon; dragged away to my embarrassment and treated as though I had been up to all sorts of shenanigans with him, ……”
Rosie, you sound as though you’ve been through the mill with that stupid cult. Unfortunately, they can’t have a life and have nothing better to do than speculate about other people’s. I remember at one District convention in the seventies I was asked by my sister if I would look after my young nephew for a while during one of the breaks (something had come up which she needed to attend to) so I took him by the hand and we went for a walk. Along the way I bumped into a sister from my congregation and we started chatting. She then took my nephew’s other hand and we continued walking. Well, within a couple of hours the JW grapevine had both of us engaged and there was speculation about when we would marry. I find it amusing now, but was quite annoyed at the time.
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anonymous says:
May 28, 2015 at 4:39 pm
There is a sister and brother in my congregation that love the elders and make very moving comments at meetings (when I attended) about what a wonderful job the elders do etc. and how fortunate our congregation is to have such “loving” brothers as our elders. What those people don’t know is that when their son was about 16 years old, he liked a young girl from a neighboring congregation and at one of our circuit assemblies, one of the brothers from the young girl’s kingdom hall, was telling my husband and me how the brothers from the girl’s kingdom hall were all taking turns following the young man around, making sure that he didn’t grab that girl and rape her in the bushes during the lunch breaks.
If the brother and sister (the mom and dad) in my old congregation had any idea that those men were following their son around like that, thinking he was going to rape that girl, I wonder if their comments about how “loving” the elders would be then?
If I ever get called before a committee, that is one of the things that I will tell the elders that I am going to do is to tell that sister and her husband about what happened at that assembly concerning their 16 year old boy and we will see just how long they would stay in this “wonderful and loving” religion then.
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Queen Elsa says:
May 28, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Brie : I was emotionally involved and cried when you cried during the video . I was raised as a witness, then my family stopped attending when I was ten, but a lot of the damage had been done. My mother was murdered by her second husband in the late 80s. So needless to say, I had questions. I progressed and later served in the circuit work with my spouse.
Even fiber of my body tells me this religion is wrong and I can’t see any “good God” backing it. Your testimony of the women added more reason for me to feel the way I do… Thanks so much for your courage and honesty!
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Willows says:
May 29, 2015 at 2:48 am
It just go’s to show there is a sense of justice in all persons young and old. It can not be covered over, put under the carpet, it will come to the surface and be expressed. What Brie has related is true and others have been raped and gone to elders for help only to be accused of shocking things. I remember one circuit overseer saying some of these elders would not be appointed in other congregations, so the standards are all over the place. When a person comes for help, that is what they should get. Be comforted and reassured.
The lack of follow up to help shows a lack of love and concern, then to call people names show they are not following Christ. There is a saying the fish stinks from the head down. Freedom from oppression is calling out loud and clear. It is true what go’s around comes around. With the judgement they give, it will be given to them.
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Ted says:
May 29, 2015 at 6:37 am
@anonymous, Your account of the brother being followed
by elders, to check on his actions, is like the Gospel narrative
at Mark 3: 1-6. There the Pharisees followed Jesus closely
to see if he would break the Sabbath Law.
I don’t think Jesus would qualify as an elder today. He applied
the Law with “Equity” ( fairness ) and humanity, not rigidly
I know that many elders are reasonable and have good qualities
but they are constrained by the rule book, and this can make them
hard and unyielding.
As Brie rightly says this is a “Hierarchy”. At the top are men who
act like the Pharisees, stifling the individual conscience and pressing
elders, and everyone else , into the same inflexible pattern.
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anonymous says:
May 29, 2015 at 8:01 am
Ted, I think there are lots and lots of really good elders who don’t act like pharisees and really love the congregation and wouldn’t follow young ones around and treat them like criminals when they haven’t even done anything wrong but there are also a lot who would follow a young one around like those elders were doing to that young fellow from my congregation.
I know the reason they didn’t “trust” that young man is because he wasn’t real regular out in service or meetings and he was quiet.
Once when my son was about 10 or 11, he was visiting at a friend’s house who was a Witness and his friend from the Hall lived right down the street from us. My son and his friend who was about a year older were talking about visiting another young boy from the Kingdom Hall and his friend’s mom was in earshot of them talking and the mother of my son’s friend (a Witness also) told her son that she didn’t want him to go and visit that other kid because the other kid wasn’t baptized and so wasn’t “good association”.
My son then got the impression then that since he wasn’t baptized yet, that then in order to be considered “good association” that he also must get baptized because he got the impression loud and clear from his friend’s mother that he also must not be considered “good association” since he wasn’t baptized. So then my son decided to get baptized and went through the questions with the elders. At the time, the elders said he wasn’t ready but by the next assembly they did let him get baptized.
It isn’t just the elders who can be judgmental and Pharisaical. The Watchtower organization taught us all to be judgmental and Pharisaical. We were taught that our kids were not to associate with anybody who didn’t go to meetings regularly and answer at the meetings and go in service every week and talk about how they wanted to pioneer when they got of school and on and on.
If a kid didn’t look up the scriptures at the meetings and have them written down in the margins it would show that that kid just wasn’t good enough for our kids to associate with and could drag our kid down “spiritually” and so to make sure our kids were good “association”, we had to make sure that our kids answered at the meetings and underlined their Watchtowers in bright markers to make sure everyone around could see how well our kids did their lessons and we had to make sure that our kids talked about how much they wanted to pioneer etc. and how disgusting it was to even to consider going to college. We had to make sure that our kids took notes at assemblies and we had to make dam sure that our kids sat quietly at the meetings when they were little and to make sure that we were really good examples, we’d beat the crap out of our kids in the back of the hall in the bathroom so everyone could hear them scream. We wanted our kids to be accepted and have friends at the Hall so that is what we did so they would have friends at the Kingdom Hall because we knew they weren’t allowed to have any friends who weren’t Witnesses and besides we thought that if we “inculcated” the “truth” into them that it would save them through Armageddon. All that was so drummed into us from the Society’s literature that we were all turned into Pharisees. The Society wants all of the Witnesses to be “proud” to be Witnesses and most are very proud (not in a good way). That is how we were trained by the Organization to be as parents to our kids. Is it any wonder that hardly any of those kids want anything to do with the “truth” when they grow up?
The last I looked, I think Brie’s video will reach the 600,000 mark by the end of the day. She has over 5,000 likes and only 287 dislikes.
All those Witnesses who clicked dislike would like to think that those kinds of elders that Brie talked about would be in other congregations and not their own but if they ever got molested and raped like those sisters she talked about, then and only then would they understand all the 5,000 likes because what she described happening to those sisters is Watchtower policy and those elders were following orders from the Society.
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sirius says:
May 30, 2015 at 5:48 am
Sure looks and reads like how muslims operate, through non-assimilation. Not to be governed or tainted by non-believers (Jews, Christians, Kafiers, Infidels etc.). Hard to believe in today’s enlightenment we are to tolerate the intolerant yet under a faith… wholesale practiced intolerance by JWs and muslims. So much for simple human rights, having an equality of respect & dignity.
Brie, an excellent presentation!
dogstar
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danman says:
May 29, 2015 at 8:07 am
There was a brief moment in Watchtower history that came when Ray Franz tried to steer the governing body toward ‘freedom of conscience’. I remember articles in the Watchtower about allowing each other the freedom to decide, based upon ‘Christian principles’.
It was like a breath of fresh air wafting through halls of strict enforced ‘pharisaical’ policies and rules. Of course as soon as Bethel heavies began to see the self study of the bible, independent actions, they quickly reigned back ‘personal conscience’ for even more thorough, trite rules and policies via secret elder manuals and the like.
An opportunity to become an organization of true Christian freedom, lost forever, because a few wise men read and truly understood what Jesus was teaching. Protecting power and influence was and is at the base root of the Watchtower structure.
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Pickled brain says:
May 29, 2015 at 8:40 am
@Anonymous & @ Danman BOTH of your COMMENTS show ALL the HALLMARKS of a CULT !!! You Really have YEARS of Experience between you & the points you make show the GB & the Organisation is GOVERNED by PHARASAICAL Rules which have no relation to Christianity because Jesus wanted LOVE,JUSTICE & MERCY!!!
Where in the Scriptures has the GB got the right to tell me WHAT DAMN COLOUR SHIRT to WEAR on the PLATFORM & whether I have a BEARD or not as I was told in 1984 by my body of Elders !!!
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 2:11 pm
If she has been in it so long… how come she makes the mistake of constantly calling them “Jehovah Witness” when it’s “Jehovah’S Witnesses” (PLURAL). Being a born and raised witness myself and now having become a “disassociated fader” that just raised so many red flags. Any witness, disfellowshipped or otherwise, should know how to properly pronounce their old religion, particularly one so affected as Brie. This is how I would determine if someone was truthful or not…if they trip up over the important small details should this affect their credibility?
I believe her, but man that just troubles me.
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Pickled brain says:
May 29, 2015 at 2:49 pm
@J*L*C*R . I have listened to Brie twice now & she does say the correct pronunciation ! This is an INNOCENT Question but do you listen to LOUD Music a lot because you may have lost some of your sense of hearing.
Perhaps you should visit a Doctor who specialises in HEARING Disabilities! I say this with genuine concern as now you have no hope of the ‘PARADISE’ your hearing won’t be healed in the New System!!
I can VOUCH for Everything she says which I have seen & experienced much of what she relates in many many instances!!
You are NOT a MAN by ANY CHANCE!!! Because WOMEN have Had Enough of being Treated as SECOND CLASS CITIZENS in the ORGANISATION ,LETS Not NIT PICK But concentrate on the Positive!!
This Video will Help tens of thousands of women BREAK FREE from The SLAVERY imposed on them in this Organisation & YES I CALL DOMESTIC ABUSE …. SLAVERY!!!
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 3:50 pm
Pickled Brain….for someone who states they hate the watchtower so much, you really enjoy using their tactics of bullying and insulting language when trying to convey an argument.
Not to mention going completely off the reservation with the topic at hand… we are talking about the greenhorn, door-step bible student mistake of mispronouncing the name of the religion.
Any JW would laugh at this because of the mistakes in small details. In order to sway their entrenched opinion, you have to be on your toes with the facts at hand.
I clearly heard her repeatedly say “Jehovah Witness” singular and not plural…that’s just my opinion.
This does not detract from her argument or message in any way…she conveyed it politely, stayed on topic, and was courteous throughout. Maybe, you should watch it a third time and learn some of that before giving someone both barrels over the internet.
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Pat says:
May 29, 2015 at 5:25 pm
J*L*C*R , I for one like to misspell their name too, I do it subconsciously. I think it’s a way of showing I am not one of them anymore, I don’t follow their rules, call them however I want sort of thing.
I was brought up in this religion too.
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Queen Elsa says:
May 29, 2015 at 11:21 pm
Who cares!!!! Nit picking like the organization does, drives me nuts!
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:13 am
Also, not “nit picking” is why I was trapped in this organization for so long. Critically examine everything before you accept it at face value. Her main point was “think for yourself”….seriously people, don’t be a sheep.
Just because something “tickles your ear” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be subjective and examine it thoroughly.
Pat says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm
But that’s exactly my point, I was trying to show that not spelling JWs name correctly is completely normal even if you were a witness for decades, hence in my opinion it is totally irrelevant in establishing the truthfulness of Brie’s story.
Liam smith says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Well done you for standing up to the bullies on this site
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Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Liam Smith – What an interesting observation coming from someone who, on first arriving on this site, once said…
“Been a fader for 3 years now and actually find some of the comments on here so petty and nit picking, GET A LIFE.”
Amazing that I am a bully for saying “You’re easily insulted,” while your “petty and nitpicking, GET A LIFE” remark gets a clean bill of health.
anonymous says:
May 29, 2015 at 3:47 pm
@J*L*C*R, are you seriously suggesting that she made up her life experience in the “truth” because she said Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness? Why in the world would a young girl make up a story like that when most Witness kids find it embarrassing to even admit to the rest of the kids that they even belong to the Witness religion?
How she was treated as a young Witness is why she spoke with such feeling and she has EMPATHY for the victims that she is talking about which most Witnesses don’t have.
If anyone doubts that she is telling the truth, there has to be something wrong with them or else that girl deserves an Oscar for such a moving performance for being such a good actress and I for one can’t imagine that she is acting.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 3:57 pm
I said I believed her… I only implied that why one Earth would someone mispronounce the name of the religion? It was probably a simple mistake but not even bible studies make that greenhorn mistake in mispronunciation… particularly someone who grew up in it. When a person makes novice mistakes like that, it detracts from the message. It’s like listening to a lecture and someone constantly mispronouncing the subject…after awhile it’s just embarrassing.
Also, that’s a nice comment you made about “If anyone doubts that she is telling the truth, there has to be something wrong with them”. That reminds me of an organization that called anyone with a different opinion “mentally handicapped”…I wonder where we have heard that before?
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 4:03 pm
Also, not “nit picking” is why I was trapped in this organization for so long. Critically examine everything before you accept it at face value. Her main point was “think for yourself”….seriously people, don’t be a sheep.
Just because something “tickles your ear” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be subjective and examine it thoroughly.
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anonymous says:
May 29, 2015 at 4:26 pm
That wasn’t the end of my sentence J*L*C*R. I don’t know for sure that everything she said was the truth either but if she’s not telling her true experience with the “truth” then I said she deserves an Oscar for being that good an actress. Her speech was so moving that she had students also tearing up and I am sure that a lot of people who watched her video teared up when they were listening to it. If she’s that good an actress, she deserves an award for it.
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anonymous says:
May 29, 2015 at 4:14 pm
and to add to my last comment, I have heard many a Witness say Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness from people who have been in the “truth” for many many years. It is a common mistake especially for people who weren’t allowed to go to college and especially for people who aren’t in the “truth” and you have to remember that she was talking to kids who are used to hearing the term Jehovah Witnesses instead of Jehovah’s Witnesses but she does start out by saying that she was raised a “Jehovah’s Witness”.
Also, she names the congregation where she was from and the first experience was in that congregation and could be easily proved false if it wasn’t true.
When Brie gave that speech, she was just giving a speech in class and had no idea it would get hundreds of thousands of views within a week and if she had known that was going to happen, she probably would have been really nervous. She had no idea that thousands of people were going to see her speech and didn’t realize that there would be people who would pick on every little word she said wrong, which is a good thing. If she had known ahead of time what would happen, who knows? Maybe she would have been too nervous, knowing how people would be picking it apart, word by word and not had to courage to go through with her speech.
What she did took courage beyond courage and to say that her speech raised red flags to you, raises red flags to your comment as far as I am concerned.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 4:29 pm
What part of “I agree with what she said” didn’t you understand? You are preaching to the choir, already. Good lord friend, take a breath.
And please, just because someone has a different opinion other than yours, DOES NOT give you the right to shove your own down their throats. If I wanted to not have a cool, calm debate over a topic; I’d just as soon start attending my meetings again and have their opinions shoved down my throat.
We can agree or disagree without being disagreeable.
Also, before you throw another tantrum. I AGREE WITH BRIE AND EVERYTHING SHE SAID….I ALSO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID. (except for the whole “if you disagree with brie something must be wrong with you” part that was just plain rude.
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R*L*C*J says:
May 29, 2015 at 4:41 pm
Seriously… you people blocked me? I am the only EX JW who is not so touchy about their past experiences that they cannot politely discuss their opinions with others? I was nothing but polite and courteous to all the people who insulted me and you don’t see me blocking them.
For Pete’s sake, one person says anything contrary to popular opinion and they jump on them faster than a pizza at a weightloss convention.
Has anyone read Pickled Brains response to mine? There were so many ad hominem attacks, insults, and bullying remarks, you would think Pickled Brain was a member of the governing body. Particularly, after I wrote “I agree with what she said”.
Just because your typing and looking at an empty computer screen doesn’t give anyone the right to be rude to the other.
anonymous says:
May 29, 2015 at 5:13 pm
J*L*C*R, again, my whole sentence was if anyone doubted that she was telling the truth there has to be something wrong with them, did not end there. The rest of the sentence was because if she is not telling the truth, she has to get an Oscar for her performance.
Neither of us knows her or lived through her experiences so all we can do is go by what she said and how she said it. I wasn’t saying that if anyone doubted her that there was something wrong with them and left it there.
We are all entitled to our opinions but most dyed in the wool Witnesses would say the same thing you did and then they would call into question the validity of her being a Witness and say she is making it all up because she said Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness every time but if you listen to her speech again, you will hear that she starts out by saying “I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness”.
There were a couple things about her speech too that I wondered about like why in the world would those elders tell that young woman that she had to drop the charges against her rapist if she wasn’t to get disfellowshipped especially since the one that raped her wasn’t even a Witness.
What I would love to see is if it get national attention and she is able to go on television and give the whole story or maybe have those women come on and tell their stories to back her up. I am sure there is much more to the stories that she had to leave out because of time constraints.
Cedars says:
May 30, 2015 at 1:47 am
“I believe her, but man that just troubles me.”
You’re easily troubled.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 8:42 am
Seriously, Lloyd. For someone I look up to as a man for free thinking and not taking things at face value, you insult me?
You were a witness once too, in your congregation didn’t the die hards laugh at those who called themselves “Jehovah Witness” instead of “I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
I would expect to be congratulated at such scrutiny, from a man such as yourself, who ALWAYS says to ask questions.
I was you and your articles that woke myself and my mother and father up in the first place.
For someone who suffers from depression Lloyd, that was a pretty low comment to say to someone who may have the same affliction.
You are my hero Lloyd, and your reaction to my comment is just plain hurtful.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 8:52 am
Also, when it comes to finding the truth about the realities of the Watchtower’s crimes, yes I am easily troubled. Anyone serious about taking them down would be easily troubled to anything they could turn around and beat the arguer over the head with.
Brie did a fantastic job but in the eyes of any witness, (as you know) when they start calling themselves “Jehovah Witness” it all goes out the window for them.
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Cedars says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:12 am
You’re insulted by my saying “you’re easily troubled?”
Then you’re also easily insulted.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:16 am
I took your comment too seriously. All things aside though, I can’t believe I am talking to you Lloyd. You are my hero!
J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:24 am
This is why I don’t like online communication, same with emails. I can’t hear a person’s tone and their sense of humor (like I know you definitely have one over prank calling Tight Pants Tony) over the internet.
I’ve always wanted to get involved and write an article for your site, Lloyd. How can a person go about doing that? If that’s even an option?
Anyway, thanks for your time Lloyd, and the opportunity to talk with you.
J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:01 am
I came to this site in hopes of finding cool and calm individuals I could have a horizon broadening debate with. Now I see there are just as many hotheads and extremists on this site as there are at my Kingdom Hall. I’ll have to keep looking, I guess.
Anyway, I have a life to live now free from the Watchtower. A world where I am not afraid to share my opinions with others from fear of reprisals.
Last Words…just because it’s coming from a seemingly innocent and reliable source, don’t automatically assume it’s the truth. Examine the facts and come to your own conclusions…
You should patrol and inforce your guidlines more Lloyd, I have never been more insulted in my life than in your comments section.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 5:35 pm
Anonymous…I agree 100%. :)
Also, it turns out I wasn’t blocked, it was a spam sifter or something. My bad. (operator malfunction)
It’s hard enough for a kid to speak in front of the class, let alone about a topic so sensitive. She is a courageous young woman who has my respect.
I also want to apologize to you for what I said earlier. I took your comment to literally and I scrutinized her speech a little too much.
Since, i’ve left the “truth” all of my friends and some of my family have cut all ties. Going to school now even (community college), I keep my past hidden because I am afraid of how my new friends would react to being around an ex cultist.
Brie really is an inspiration. One day, I hope I can confront my own past and follow her example.
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anonymous says:
May 29, 2015 at 5:55 pm
I understand. You were playing devil’s advocate and there is nothing wrong with that. I believe in doing the same thing if we want active Witnesses to know that we aren’t being biased but being honest with them.
If Witnesses are going to pick on her video and call it into question, they will pick on one little thing like that and dismiss everything else that she said. Their brains will stop at that and go no further.
Witnesses will look for any little imperfections in her speech to say she is making it up but most honest people can tell by how she speaks, that she was affected personally and that comes through loud and clear. We also have to remember that she was only giving a speech to her class and did not know it would be to the world, like it turned out to be. Had she known ahead of time and she wasn’t too nervous to give that speech, she would have made it perfect, I am sure. As it was, it was from the heart and it didn’t have to be perfect but it was amazing anyway.
It has only been one week since her speech and this is only the beginning. Hopefully it reaches millions and millions of views. Hopefully there will be a ground swell against the Society starting with the youth and maybe her speech will give other children the courage to speak up too. Her speech makes me want to get up in front of people and do the same thing. She truly is an inspiration to all of us.
The youth are the next generation and if they refuse to fall in step, then the head of the snake will die.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 7:48 pm
Amen to that anonymous…. the sooner the better.
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Grace says:
May 29, 2015 at 6:49 pm
@J*L*C*R,
You did raise a legitimate question, I did notice that she said “Jehovah Witness”. I just put it down to nerves & I thought that still ins would pick that but I thought that if that’s all that they had to pick then they’re being nit picky which is something that they are good at.
Your opinions are appreciated, it’s good to have open debate.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 7:50 pm
Thank you! Your open-mindedness is greatly appreciated. :)
If we can’t have good, polite debates here then where can we have them?
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M Saurus says:
May 29, 2015 at 6:17 pm
I watched the video and quite frankly was a little weirded out when she got all choked up. I know it’s nerve-wracking giving a speech like that and she recovered nicely.
However, I do agree with JLCR. I was entrenched in this religion from age 8 to age 48, about 3 years ago. The most laughed at and popular “mistake” was always when someone said I’m a Jehovah Witness. No. If you’ve been involved for more than 6 months or so, you are “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
I too heard Brie make that mistake in terminology throughout her video. Maybe her mother was “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” – but she was, by her own admission, “a Jehovah Witness”. Big, Big difference.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 7:51 pm
Exactly!
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Grace says:
May 29, 2015 at 6:51 pm
@Who Shall Go When God’s Kingdom Comes?,
Have you thought of maybe trying a new drug. You sound very intoxicated.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 7:54 pm
I know that’s right! I’ll have what he’s having. ;)
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Pickled brain says:
May 29, 2015 at 9:32 pm
@J*L*C*R . GOOD GRIEF ! I CANNOT Believe the debate that has ensued while I went to sleep after my last comment !! I am from the U,K. and it is 5.30 . Just getting up to get ready for field service You LACK a Sense of humour J*L*C*R . You ACCUSE ME of NOT BEING POLITE!! Well you Don’t do a BAD JOB of Being Insulting & YES YOU ARE RIGHT ….., I AM A MEMBER of the GOVERNING BODY going under the guise of …. PICKLED BRAIN…!!!!
ANTHONY is my REAL NAME… You LACK A SENSE of HUMOUR & for that I Will ANNOUNCE from the PLATFORM that you WILL BE ….. RE-INSTATED!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 29, 2015 at 9:57 pm
@J*L*C*R …. Before I commented to you there were only 72 replies to this post & I thought there should be at least 500 on THIS BRILLIANT YOUNG LADIES POST!!
I BET YOU ARE From the GOOD OLD U.S.A…,,, Just have a STRANGE FEELING in MY GOOD OLD … EZEKIEL BONES !!!! A Bit Like the FAITHFUL SLAVE had in 1919!!
Oh hhhh !! BOY oh BOYI am GOING to ENJOY DEBATING with you J*L*C*R*.
Anyway MUCH CHRISTIAN LOVE to YOU …. J*L*C*R*
LOVE ANTHONY the THIRDddddd xxx
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Charles Costante says:
May 29, 2015 at 10:18 pm
“This woman is disgusting and ugly on the inside. How shocking to use half-truths to mislead and manipulate unsuspecting school pupils to avoid learning the wonderful truths in God’s Word. But rejoice not O you apostates! Righthearted ones will surely be moved by God’s spirit to overcome these lies and come to know His Organization. To you we say: Repent and Return to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls!”
Who Shall Go When God’s Kingdom Comes?, it seems to me that you’re so used to the Governing Body speaking on your behalf that you’ve become like the puppet on a ventriloquist’s hand. Do yourself a favour and start learning the truth about the “truth” – it might actually set you free!
“If she has been in it so long… how come she makes the mistake of constantly calling them “Jehovah Witness” when it’s “Jehovah’S Witnesses” ”
J*L*C*R, I watched the first few minutes of the video and noticed that she does initially use “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and then it became “Jehovah Witness”. It does sound a bit odd coming from someone who has been one, but I then thought that it was probably an unconscious ‘mirroring’ to connect to her classmates.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology) Most people (and probably her classmates) call them ‘Jehovah Witnesses’, not ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’.
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Ken says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Honestly I found Brie’s video full of silly , and embarrassing moments of sending a picture to boy of her and a friend in a bikini . So the boy got the pics on cell , so his mom caught him masturbating to them ,so the boys mom reports Brie to the “elders” seems a bit out of character for a mother , but if Brie sent those pictures to that boy , seems a bit odd that she
would get DF for doing that . You might say that
Brie’s mother should have gotten involved since she
is “underage”. Forgive me Ceders , but this is stupid .
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Grace says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:36 pm
@Ken, that’s what this religion diminishes people to. I have friends who are mothers of daughters of the same age & I can tell you it all sounded so silly at the time listening to their stories but that’s what this religion does to people. You start to lose your own assuredness.
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anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 4:00 pm
Ken, you really should watch the video before commenting.
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SwimmingWild says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:39 am
@Charles Costante
Interesting possibility – unconscious mirroring by Brie of her classmates vocabulary – a well known neurologically programmed behaviour as the link showed. They would more likely know the cult members as Jehovah Witnesses.
Also it could be a conscious courtesy to her audience – using the term Brie knows they use for this group. It’s like when I go the the USA (from the UK) I will refer to the “trunk” rather than the “boot” of a car. Or to adjust for the different pronunciation of tomato, potato and garage in American English.
None of this makes any difference to the content and effective delivery of her talk – and its brilliantly successful publicising of the dark side if this cult.
SwimmingWild
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Shanti says:
May 30, 2015 at 10:06 am
J*L*C*R*:
I think the primary objective was to come to Brie’s defense and not to insult you. You must understand there are regulars on this forum who have distinct personalities. Please get to know them and understand their voices. They all have something to offer as I think you do as well. I can understand how passionate you are about your views. I don’t doubt for a minute that the regulars here would come to your defense if it was required.
The JW’s left me w/ the sense of “it’s me or them”. If they don’t agree w/ me, they must be against me. That is just not true. I have to fight it every day. Coming to this website has helped me understand that we might disagree on the little things but we are united where it counts.
I appreciate what Brie did regardless of the wording. I don’t want to take the attention away from this milestone with what might appear to outsiders as petty infighting. She is very young to have taken on this responsibility and I think the attention and focus needs to be on what she did accomplish. There are so many positives about what this young woman did. I would love to hear followups from her. I don’t want to squelch her creativity because we circled all the errors in red ink and sent the piece back to her. I would love to see her contribute articles on this website w/ Cedars. She is just starting her escape from the JW’s. We all know how difficult that is. It would be so exciting to have her check in and tell us her progress.
Congratulations on leaving the JW’s with your family intact. That is a milestone on it’s own merit. Many of us have not been so lucky and are still struggling to cope with life w/o any family.
I think we all need a reminder that it takes a while to shake the “JW” out of our heads.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:49 pm
Thanks for the kind words, Shanti! It’s a struggle for us all and I hope to get to know the regulars here in time. Thanks again.
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Simon Kestral says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:29 pm
J*L*C*R, you told Pickled you “except” his apology.
I know what you meant. But as you demonstrate, not everyone is 100% precise in their speech or writing. I have heard experienced JWs say “Jehovah Witness” when asked about their religion. Some, as you say, like to be precise. But others, not so much.
If we understand what people mean, that’s the important thing.
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Simon Kestral says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:33 pm
My reply to J*L*C*R appears BEFORE his post. Weird. Maybe a web site software bug I guess.
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Simon Kestral says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:12 pm
Gnashing said:
“TRUTH OF GOD’S GLORIOUS ORGANIZATION WILL SHINE THROUGH!!”
I trust it will. But the evidence I’ve examined convinces me WT is not it.
The GB says “WE ARE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE!”
Any slave claiming that title for himself, is presumptuous. Only the master, Jesus, can decide which slaves to reward. And Jesus has not done so yet.
That false claim makes it obvious: the WT is not God’s organization, it is not God’s channel of communication.
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ScotWm says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:20 am
The self-appointed Governing Body, which claims to be the faithful slave class, has assured us that jesus will indeed reward them when they are appointed over all the Master’s belongings! Here is the official prophesy:
“When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment — over all his belongings.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.25 par.18).
The Governing Body has made Jesus’ decision for him and even described his mood as being one of delight.
If “loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics” includes the Governing Body’s history of publishing constantly-changing scriptural interpretations, making endless false prophesies and lying about Watchtower history, this prophesy will indeed come true.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:57 pm
I agree with JLCR and M Saurus,
I think the pronunciation thing was a little strange. It made me question how recently or closely she was involved with the JWs. But she seems to fear disfellowshipping so she must be baptized. On another point: I don’t mean to discount Brie’s story, but I also don’t think it is wrong to question her credibility. It is what we should do, whether or not the comments are for or against Watchtower. The anecdotes she related, while heart-breaking and powerful, are unsupported. There is nothing wrong with doubting their veracity. Whenever Anthony Morris lobs one of his ridiculous anecdotes our way and expects us to take it on faith we immediately suspect it is a lie. If Cedars relied on 2nd or 3rd person anecdotes I would question his credibility as well. I’m not saying the stories are worthless and I don’t think Brie was lying. But I’m not going to buy into it lock stock and barrel just because the information originates with a well-meaning, innocent person. Brie, if you’re reading this it is not a criticism of you, just a statement of how I feel a critical thinker should process information. If others find it valuable (and obviously like 600,000 do!) I’ll not criticize them.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 7:00 pm
@Finn Sawyer
You worded that absolutely perfectly. Thank you. :)
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anonymous says:
May 30, 2015 at 6:57 pm
Just one week ago, Brie posted her video and it’s over 600,000 views and still going.
With all the tall tales that the Governing Body come up with in their talks, I don’t think any one of Jehovah’s Witnesses should call into question whether or not all of Brie’s experiences were completely true or not. She was repeating what others told her and she believed them and since we weren’t there living those experiences like what those sisters went though, we have no reason to doubt that they were not true stories.
We know that when she described the disfellowshipping policy for ones who try and walk away from the religion when they find out about the lies and corruption within the Organization, there is no untruth about that and that was a very powerful part of the speech, along with how terribly kids and women are treated.
From her speech, we also got to know how much pain and suffering a child must feel to imagine their own father being killed at Armageddon and so why it was so difficult for kids to make friends at school because of that, knowing that they’d all be killed at Armageddon and turned into bird food.
What her speech did was to demonstrate the anguish that every child must feel who are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses with the constant fear of the War of Armageddon that is drummed into their heads each and every day of their lives. That is child abuse!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:43 pm
@Swallowtail. Just to add to my last comment .As The ‘Apostate Gnashing of Teeth ‘Post is a diehard JW …, He or she will probably NOT have a sense of humour so the best way to beat their bilge is with Humour!!! It CONFUSES THEM … As the Elders never have a Sense of Humour when I’ve been Counseled publicly in the Watchtower for my COMMENTS !! Quite a few Sisters are Catching on to what I am Subtley doing by giving me BIG SMILES at the End of the MEETING & Saying ‘I Really Enjoyed your comments ! I know there are others in my Kingdom Hall who don’t believe a word what the GB NEW LIGHT IS , But they are TRAPPED because of FAMILY MEMBERS who Have BLIND LOYALTY to the GB & have left their Brains at Home!
This is WHAT is SO EVIL about the GB with their SHUNNING Policies , but it WILL BACKFIRE because the GB may Stop people leaving the Organistion because of Attachment to family members, BUT I Guarantee you that HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS have LEFT the ORGANISATION MENTALLY & think NEW LIGHT CONCEPT is BANANAS!!!
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Charles Costante says:
May 30, 2015 at 10:09 pm
“I don’t mean to discount Brie’s story, but I also don’t think it is wrong to question her credibility. It is what we should do, whether or not the comments are for or against Watchtower. The anecdotes she related, while heart-breaking and powerful, are unsupported. There is nothing wrong with doubting their veracity. Whenever Anthony Morris lobs one of his ridiculous anecdotes our way and expects us to take it on faith we immediately suspect it is a lie. If Cedars relied on 2nd or 3rd person anecdotes I would question his credibility as well. I’m not saying the stories are worthless and I don’t think Brie was lying. But I’m not going to buy into it lock stock and barrel just because the information originates with a well-meaning, innocent person.”
I couldn’t agree with you more, Finn! When at the age of twenty five I came to the realisation that what I had believed fervently to be the “truth” since I was toddler was a load of nonsense, I made the decision to question everything I had ever taken for granted and would continue to do so from then on. I even question “scientific fact” which some may consider a bit extreme, but I say, “once bitten, twice shy”.
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Charles Costante says:
May 30, 2015 at 10:17 pm
“Seriously, Lloyd. For someone I look up to as a man for free thinking and not taking things at face value, you insult me?”
J*L*C*R, I would have been very upset if Lloyd had made those comments to me, so I understand how you feel. He can come across as arrogant and is often sarcastic and quite defensive when contradicted, things I try and ignore only because he’s so brilliant at exposing this insidious cult. Please don’t stop posting – your posts are well thought out (unlike Watchtower doctrine) and intelligently written and I for one am glad you brought up the issue you did (I only watched a few minutes of the YouTube clip and I knew there was something that didn’t feel quite right. It was only when you brought it up that the penny dropped).
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Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:03 am
Charles Constante…
“J*L*C*R, I would have been very upset if Lloyd had made those comments to me, so I understand how you feel. He can come across as arrogant and is often sarcastic and quite defensive when contradicted…”
I feel like I’ve slipped into an alternate reality where the most innocent, innocuous reply can be interpreted as a scathing insult.
Let’s recap… I told J*L*C*R he was “easily troubled” by Brie’s use of the phrase “Jehovah Witnesses” rather than “Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
When J*L*C*R said he felt insulted by my “easily troubled” comment, I told him he was “easily insulted.”
Am I missing something? Where are the upsetting comments I am alleged to have made?
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Charles Costante says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:41 am
Lloyd, you are very sensitive about any criticism directed at you but you don’t seem to show the same sensitivity with others. The fact of the matter is that J*L*C*R was upset by the comment you made and so would I if it had been directed at me. Maybe we’re both oversensitive! As I said earlier, you’re brilliant at what you do and that’s really what’s important.
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Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:48 am
Thank you Charles, but though I hate to press you on this, are you able to explain to me precisely what about my two brief comments to J*L*C*R was so upsetting?
I plead guilty as charged to not pulling punches and taking no prisoners with my comments both here and on YouTube. I am a writer and activist, not a politician. I am looking to get my point across, not win a popularity contest. If someone writes something that is silly, I will tell them so. But I can’t help but scratch my head that anything in my “easily troubled” and “easily insulted” comments to J*L*C*R could be a genuine cause of upset to an adult with standard comprehension skills.
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Charles Costante says:
May 31, 2015 at 4:23 am
Lloyd, to tell someone that he is “easily insulted” is a criticism in anyone’s book. It may be like water off a duck’s back to some but others take those sorts of comments to heart. We’re all different – what more can I say! I thought J*L*C*R brought up a very valid point because it’s the sort of thing that JW apologists will latch onto to try and discredit what Brie had to say. It’s now been thrashed out and hopefully put to rest.
I’ll say again that I think you’re doing an amazing job of discrediting the Watchtower. I wish I had your skill of communication (I also wish I knew how to use emoticons on this site – I’m not very literate when it comes to computers).
Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 4:37 am
“Lloyd, to tell someone that he is ‘easily insulted’ is a criticism in anyone’s book.”
A criticism can be justified or unjustified. If my ‘crime’ was that of criticizing J*L*C*R, then J*L*C*R is guilty of the same crime towards Brie, whether his criticism was justified or not.
I would actually say my “easily troubled” comment was more of an observation than a criticism, but even if you categorize it as criticism it can’t by any reasonable stretch be deemed “upsetting” unless getting upset is your default reaction to any kind of criticism, no matter how mild.
J*L*C*R says:
May 31, 2015 at 10:20 am
Lloyd, (my comment is long but please read all of it)
This is how myself and others took your comment.
“easily troubled’= someone who gets troubled over the most minor things.
“easily insulted”= implies being a prima-dona.
“But I can’t help but scratch my head that anything in my “easily troubled” and “easily insulted” comments to J*L*C*R could be a genuine cause of upset to an ADULT WITH STANDARD COMPREHENSION SKILLS.
An Adult With Standard Comprehension Skills= You are implying that due to my (and others) interpretation of the facts I am either an (a) immature individual and therefore lacking in standard comprehension skills; or (b) I am an adult with some form of metal handicap. (That strikes a nerve because we both know who else says such things)
Either way my point was this…I have not seen this young woman’s sources and due to this lack of evidence; I refuse to take HER WORD at face value. I just left a religion that encouraged me to just accept things on blind faith..I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. I WILL NEVER BE A VICTIM EVER AGAIN.
What’s the difference between Lett giving a speech with unsubstantiated claims and a teary eyed young girl giving one…other than the subject matter and physical appearances? To me when I hear an argument, I need to examine just the facts presented and leave bias out of it.
A statement without proof no matter who it comes from, I don’t care if Ghandi made one, it’s still unsubstantiated.
Your comments carry more weight than anyone else’s because I look up to you. How would you like it if your hero implied your someone who takes things too literally.When you idolize them for examining everything before accepting them as truth.
Coming from anyone else I would have ignored them, but I hold you to a higher standard, Lloyd.
We all better hope this doesn’t turn out to be a hoax; or we will be eating crow for life. Until I see the facts for myself, I will not stake my reputation on ANYTHING…or ANYONE. I did that for the Governing Body once on just BLIND FAITH and I WILL NEVER do anything like that EVER AGAIN.
Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 10:37 am
I find it absolutely astonishing that comments such as “you’re easily troubled” or “you’re easily offended” can be interpreted as insults or causes for offense by anyone – and may I take this opportunity, J*L*C*R, to note that you were rightly apologetic and acknowledging your readiness to be offended before Mr Constante came riding in with his rebuke.
I find it equally baffling that my paint-by-numbers explanation of why “you’re easily troubled” and “you’re easily insulted” are not insults or legitimate reasons for upset is now being re-examined with a verbose admonishment by a poster who was so recently ready to forget it all, and who now insinuates that I am victimizing him and accusing him of being immature and mentally retarded.
I appeal to all reasonable-minded visitors to adjudicate – have I done anything to justify any of these protests against my two three-word comments, or have I drifted into an alternate dimension where “you’re easily troubled/insulted” are scathing acts of humiliation that merit strong admonition and an apology?
Finn Sawyer says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:08 pm
Cedars, since you asked for another opinion–I thought your comments were insulting. Where I come from, if you tell a person they are “easily offended” or “easily insulted” it implies they are weak-minded, without back-bone. They aren’t tough enough to deal with reality. That’s the implication. Whether or not that is true is beside the point, obviously no one wants to be thought of as having a weak mind. Indeed, whenever I have referred to someone in the congregation as “easily stumbled” it was meant as an insult. That’s my take.
Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Thanks Finn, that’s one opinion – hopefully not the final verdict (unless I really have fallen into an alternate universe where the slightest contradiction is viewed as a scathing attack).
Given the fact that there are already two people who think “You’re easily troubled” and “You’re easily insulted” are hurtful, upsetting and offensive comments, it doesn’t surprise me that there can be a third visitor to this site with a tenuous grasp on the definition of “insult.” I dare say there are more, but in a way I’m pleased to be able to put a name to you all.
anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm
Hi Lloyd. I also commented but it got mixed in the middle of all the comments as I wanted to put my two cents worth in on the discussion. Thanks
Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:39 pm
Thanks anonymous. This isn’t the first time people have emerged from nowhere to whip up a storm in a teacup on JWsurvey. I’m keeping tabs on the situation, and so far I’m unimpressed by one poster’s talmudic fixation with correcting Brie’s terminology, followed by his enthusiasm to find offense in my completely innocuous comments, followed by the u-turn on his apology prompted only by another poster riding to his rescue. Classic apologist behavior, if it’s not too insulting for me to say.
anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:47 pm
I think if a person can dish it out, they should be able to take it too.
Cedars says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:52 pm
I can’t argue with you there. J*L*C*R seems to want the luxury, indeed demand the luxury, of being able to discredit what others say while having his own opinions held as sacrosanct.
Finn Sawyer says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Cedars
I think you may be easily offended and may have a tenuous grasp of what constitutes insulting language. I’m going to remember that about you.
Can you take what you dish out?
anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:24 pm
@Finn, did you go back and read J*L*C*R’s initial comments about Brie’s speech? Just because this person doesn’t trust anybody anymore, doesn’t mean that he had to imply that Brie’s speech was all lies. It was really insulting to her. Why is it okay for this person to insult that young girl like that just because he doesn’t trust people anymore?
J*L*C*R says that you can’t believe every story so that should go for J*L*C*R as well. Why should he be believed anymore than Brie should not be believed? Why is it okay for him to do that to Brie and not take the same treatment?
When I saw Brie’s speech for the first time, I couldn’t believe what a powerful witness it was for not getting involved in the JW religion. I was blown away by her speech and so were hundreds of thousands of others. Any speech calling into question her honesty has to be just plan jealousy and nothing else. It was calling attention to themselves and taking away the attention where it belongs on the courage of that young girl.
If there is such a thing as a David and Goliath story where this young lady brings down the Society, it is this video and I am rooting for her to win and she needs all of our support. She doesn’t need any detractors.
Finn Sawyer says:
May 31, 2015 at 6:02 pm
I’m just mirroring Lloyd’s comments to myself and others. I’m not worried he’ll be offended, since he doesn’t regard them as insults. With regard to Brie’s video, please see my earlier post on Brie’s video. I’m not impressed and I’m not going to apologize for that simply to fit in with the majority.
You know, I appreciate what Lloyd has created here. Sometimes I really like this forum, but today is not one of those days. I apologize if I have contributed to that feeling for any others.
just asking says:
May 30, 2015 at 11:11 pm
Once upon a time someone told me to always ask questions but refused me to question him.
Ref: Bible teach chap 1 par 1-5.
How is that called in English? double standards?
What would that make the GB.
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Innocent Son says:
May 31, 2015 at 5:02 am
I read all the comments with great interest.You see this open honest debate would not be allowed in the Org, indeed some would probably be marked, reproved and even removed…Remember please though that we are all human and do make mistakes, so let’s not get to distracted about what Brie, may or may not have said…Let us not be overly critical, just try to put ourselves in this poor girls’ shoes and think about how much bravery it must of took….Hopefully we’re all on this site for the same reason.To expose this lying, greedy, Cult and help others to break free….Shalom
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anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 5:59 am
Dear Brie, you and your mother are truly an inspiration to anyone who has the courage to stand up to the Society and this song is for you and your mom and every young person coming onto this web site.
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Ted says:
May 31, 2015 at 7:23 am
In the 50s there was a sister in our cong, who served in place
of a ministerial servant. She also sat in on the COs meetings
and he made no bones about saying she was the best servant
among us. She “Manned” the literature counter.
Of course the line was drawn against making her appointment
official. And as soon as some brothers field service reports
contained the required quotas, she was removed, and he was
given her position. The patriarchal sexist mentality prevailed
That lady qualified in an exemplary way and filled all the
requirements save one, — She wasn’t a man!
In the workplace today that situation would not be tolerated
and would result in expensive litigation if practiced.
Only in extremist, fundamental religions do these backward
ideas persist.
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 31, 2015 at 8:22 am
@Ted
My grandmother was one of the servants in the 40’s or 50’s. When she was alive, she retained more knowledge of the Bible and history than any male I ever knew in our hall. As a kid I remember hearing that she was counseled on more than one occasion for following up the brother’s comments with correcting comments at the Watchtower study. Never rebelled and left outright though. Wish she had.
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Ted says:
May 31, 2015 at 10:41 am
@ Finn Sawyer.
Ladies like your Grandma, were the backbone of the cong,
and I’m sure they still are. I always thought the sisters were
more spiritual.
Your Grandma correcting the Brothers made me smile.
In one of the local Congs, there was an old “Remnant Bro,
and during the public talk, if he disagreed with something
he would let you know. He would shake his head and could
be heard telling those around him what the right interpretation
was. To say it was disconcerting is putting it mildly.
When he died I helped clear out his house. His stuff was sold
and the money sent to the Org, that he had devoted his life to.
A waste on both counts, and sad.
Nice to hear your experience, thanks for sharing.
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anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 11:13 am
@J*L*C*R, Lloyd’s comment was a whole lot nicer than the one that I wanted to leave for you. Everything in your first comment was saying that Brie was making up the whole thing. This is how you started out:
“If” she has been in it so long…how come she makes the mistake of “constantly” (She didn’t CONSTANTLY say Jehovah Witnesses like you said) calling them “Jehovah Witnesses” when it’s “Jehovah’s Witnesses” (PLURAL). Being a born and raised witness (This should have been a Capital W at the front of Witness as long as you are being so nit-picky) because the word Witness is a PROPER NOUN WHICH YOU EVIDENTLY DIDN’T REALIZE AND SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IF YOU REALLY WERE A WITNESS SUCH A LONG TIME AS YOU CLAIM), disfellowshipped or otherwise, should know how to properly pronounce their old religion, particularly one so affected as Brie. This is how I would determine if someone was truthful or not…(IF again) if they trip up over the important small details should this affect their credibility? I believe her, but man that just troubles me.”
Everything in your first comment was calling Brie a liar and it was very insulting to her. We didn’t hear the experiences of the 3 women in the first person that she talked about but everything else she said is Watchtower policy and IF YOU HAD BEEN A WITNESS SUCH A LONG TIME AS YOU CLAIM, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT. When it comes to the women’s stories, there are plenty of experiences on Youtube to confirm that these things happen to women over and over again in the “truth” and if you have really woken up like you say, then you would know that those experiences are believable.
I for one thought that Lloyd’s comment was a whole lot nicer than how your entire comment was calling into question Brie’s truthfulness and I was glad he said something to you because I thought your comment was really insulting to this young girl that took tons of courage to do what she did. Did you ever do anything to even compare?????
In my first comment to you, I was holding back because I wanted to reply just as Pickled Brain did but I wanted to give you the benefit of a doubt.
This is how you could have worded that comment of yours if you had doubts like you did and if you really did “believe” her like you claimed:
I loved her speech but Watchtower apologists will pick on it because she said “Jehovah Witnesses” instead of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (That would not have raised red flags to us like it did for me.
I had a hard time believing that you are a fader like you said because you sure sounded like a Watchtower apologist to me.)
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Grace says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:20 pm
@Anonymous, I wish I had you around me when I need some words of wisdom. You nailed it. It’s not the question that was raised it’s the way in which it was written. Great point. My husband always tells me that same thing when I’m wondering why I have offended someone. That there was nothing wrong with what I said it’s the way that I deliver it at times. It’s probably because of my upbringing. I came from a large family of girls & we just said things how we saw it, I’ve had to become more ‘politically correct’ with my approach to people because I realised that they had a different upbringing to me.
We can all come across the wrong way with words on a monitor, that’s why I think face to face contact is so much better when it comes to sorting out differences.
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Grace says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:24 pm
That’s where I admire Lloyd, he has put his face to his words. I hope that I can reach that point some day soon. I live in a very small community & I still have trouble going shopping & seeing Witnesses that I have known for last 20years & worry about the way that they view me. It’s pathetic but I’m trying to grow a spine & move to the next phase.
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Grace says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Also, that’s why Brie is viewed so highly by people like me. So young & yet in an age bracket where you’re so self-conscious about everything. She has made me want to be open to people in my area about where I stand on matters instead of curtailing to the WT. That’s what makes me angry at this religion because I never used to be like this.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Apparently, (I must be going into an alternate reality like Lloyd) when someone takes the neutral ground and states the simple fact that if a person makes a series of statements without meeting the appropriate burdens of proof; then they are by immediate default Watchtower Apologists.
EXAMPLE
…well the watchtower says one thing and another individual says another, this person is against the Watchtower; therefore, the standards of proof don’t apply. Let’s all agree with what’s being said despite a lack of evidence to support the argument… just because the person goes against the Watchtower.
Dare say… if anyone does not want to take either extreme viewpoint but tries to calmly examine the facts in front of them, as the arguer presented them… while maintaining neutrality from their personal feelings AGAINST the Watchtower… they must be watchtower apologists.
To not immediately accept any argument that highlights the evilness of the Watchtower is folly. (NOTE: The watchtower is evil…they destroy lives and families but to accept every story that arises without looking at the facts presented is foolishness)
Is it me, or I am the only one person that recognizes the universal fact for all intelligentsia; the BURDEN OF PROOF lies with the person making the argument. Brie made a good speech but until concrete facts are presented, I am not willing to believe her. I am also not willing to believe the Watchtower and Governing Body when they present an argument without proof.
When we listen to a scientist present a new theory, we expect him to bring FACTS to the discussion; not second and third hand stories. It makes for a great story but I don’t base my opinions off other people’s opinions and stories. That’s all Jehovah’s Witnesses do, base their opinions off the Governing Body’s opinions. Since I left the Watchtower, I base my opinions on FACTS.
All I am saying…and I AM NOT AN APOLOGIST…. is to believe someone’s argument, when no solid proof or facts have been presented, (other than THEIR WORD) is no different than believing in something the Governing Body has said. Neither has presented Evidence.
Why should we not carry the same standards of scrutiny to every side that arises? Not just the ones we like or agree with the most?
It’s like saying “J*L*C*R says that he is staying neutral until more facts arise and in the mean time he is refusing to go to either extreme of the argument…he must be an apologist. Grab your torch and pitchforks and destroy his comments with fire!”
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Swallowtail says:
May 31, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Brie showed exceptional courage and intelligence in exposing the inner workings on being a JW youth.I meant to mention that earlier, but was caught up in all the flurry of comments. Isn’t it ironic that they train youths to be bold and courageous in the face of immense opposition only to have it backfire. I just love that…..
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Awake at last says:
May 31, 2015 at 2:07 pm
J*L*C*R you may not like some of the responses you got to your opinions but at least your opinions made it to the point where people could read them.
I wrote a medium length comment that never made it to the point where it could be read. I will submit this and see if this makes it. By the way my comment complied with Cedars posting rules.
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Awake at last says:
May 31, 2015 at 2:18 pm
Yew, the above comment made it. I wonder what happened to my other one. Did it somehow get lost in the system?
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Awake at last says:
May 31, 2015 at 2:20 pm
It was meant to say “yes” not “yew”. How come all these comments are making it but not my original one?
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J*L*C*R says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Apparently, (I must be going into an alternate reality like Lloyd) when someone takes the neutral ground and states the simple fact that if a person makes a series of statements without meeting the appropriate burdens of proof; then they are by immediate default Watchtower Apologists.
EXAMPLE
…well the watchtower says one thing and another individual says another, this person is against the Watchtower; therefore, the standards of proof don’t apply. Let’s all agree with what’s being said despite a lack of evidence to support the argument… just because the person goes against the Watchtower.
Dare say… if anyone does not want to take either extreme viewpoint but tries to calmly examine the facts in front of them, as the arguer presented them… while maintaining neutrality from their personal feelings AGAINST the Watchtower… they must be watchtower apologists.
To not immediately accept any argument that highlights the evilness of the Watchtower is folly. (NOTE: The watchtower is evil…they destroy lives and families but to accept every story that arises without looking at the facts presented is foolishness)
Is it me, or I am the only one person that recognizes the universal fact for all intelligentsia; the BURDEN OF PROOF lies with the person making the argument. Brie made a good speech but until concrete facts are presented, I am not willing to believe her. I am also not willing to believe the Watchtower and Governing Body when they present an argument without proof.
When we listen to a scientist present a new theory, we expect him to bring FACTS to the discussion; not second and third hand stories. It makes for a great story but I don’t base my opinions off other people’s opinions and stories. That’s all Jehovah’s Witnesses do, base their opinions off the Governing Body’s opinions. Since I left the Watchtower, I base my opinions on FACTS.
All I am saying…and I AM NOT AN APOLOGIST…. is to believe someone’s argument, when no solid proof or facts have been presented, (other than THEIR WORD) is no different than believing in something the Governing Body has said. Neither has presented Evidence.
Why should we not carry the same standards of scrutiny to every side that arises? Not just the ones we like or agree with the most?
It’s like saying “J*L*C*R says that he is staying neutral until more facts arise and in the mean time he is refusing to go to either extreme of the argument…he must be an apologist. Grab your torch and pitchforks and destroy his comments with fire!”
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anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 4:14 pm
J*L*C*R, I don’t believe everything I hear or read either. If you are having a hard time thinking that such terrible abuse of women happens in the Society, Lloyd had 2 really good articles right on this web site under domestic abuse. Look on the right side near the top. One of the articles is called: Danmera Dinglebum Why did it take so long and the other article is called: Won Without a Word – At what Cost?
The Watchtower has had many many articles over the years about when a wife is being beaten that she is to be a “better wife” and then the man won’t beat on her. If you don’t believe it, you should go to those articles and read them first. Lloyd has many many places that you can go to Watchtower literature to back it up. Women have always been treated as “nothings” and you must be a man because if you were a woman, I think you would understand. It is hard for men to know what it feels like if it isn’t you being treated like a “nothing”.
When it comes to rape, there are multiple articles in the magazines and books and even the Young People Ask book that when someone is raped, that they will be called before a committee so that they can determine if it was fornication or not. There’s tons of articles on that too if you don’t believe it.
At least you came out and admitted you didn’t believe Brie. In your first comment, you said you did believe her, remember?
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J*L*C*R says:
May 31, 2015 at 4:50 pm
I do not believe Brie ONLY because there is not enough evidence to support what she has said in her argument.
I do believe in the Watchtower’s crimes against Women and the suppression of their rights. The reasons for this are two fold (1) I was born into a long line of JW’s my Grandmother became involved in 1939; both of my parents were Witnesses and raised me as one when I came along in 1993. I was then baptized in 2007 and have since become inactive. I know firsthand from myself and from my family; instances of physical, mental, and spiritual abuse on profound levels.
The second reason is because of the hard work Lloyd, and others have put forth in providing full proof articles on the topic. Just like the articles you have mentioned; ones with plenty of evidence to prove their point.
Just for the sake of clarity…the only reason I do not believe Brie, the person, is because I do not know her and therefore cannot simply take her word on something without proper documentation and/or proof to back up what she is saying.
I do believe in the Watchtower’s abuse on Women for previously stated reasons.
I hope this clears the water.
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anonymous says:
May 31, 2015 at 5:57 pm
What parts of her speech did you not believe?
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danman says:
May 31, 2015 at 3:35 pm
Think maybe Gnashing did his job? A true hit and run hijacking of Brie’s thread.
He is the one that is laughing. Sorry Brie.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 29, 2015 at 7:53 pm
Either you are being extraordinarily rude to M Saurus or your up to your eyeballs in that religion. If so, trust me I’ve been in your shoes…get out before it’s too late and your life and time has been wasted….no joke.
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 12:46 am
@J*L*C*R . You could be RIGHT maybe I have spent too long in this Religion!! Something I can agree with you on… & YES I suppose sometimes the mouth can run ahead of the brain ! I have to admit it can happen to the best of us or the worst!
But they say it takes a STRONG MAN to say they are SORRY !! So I am willing to say I was too harsh in my comments to you & yes you have a right to comment on how BRIE said things .
BUT I will say it is important to STAY UNITED in WHAT BRIEs MESSAGE was & that was INJUSTICE AGAINST WOMEN !!
I
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 8:46 am
Amen, Pickled Brain. I except your apology.
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 8:57 am
If you bothered to read my comment to anonymous, I apologized to him to.
I came to this site in hopes of finding cool and calm individuals I could have a horizon broadening debate with. Now I see there are just as many hotheads and extremists on this site as there are at my Kingdom Hall. I’ll have to keep looking, I guess.
Anyway, I have a life to live now free from the Watchtower. A world where I am not afraid to share my opinions with others from fear of reprisals.
Last Words…just because it’s coming from a seemingly innocent and reliable source, don’t automatically assume it’s the truth. Examine the facts and come to your own conclusions…
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:26 am
@J*L*C*R* . Thank you for BEING SO GRACIOUS in your Acceptance of my apology . IT IS APPRECIATED !!! You have shown yourself to be a DECENT PERSON !!
WE all NEED on this site to be in UNISON in our FIGHT against the Watchtower & GB!!
The main Focus here is what Brie Highlighted that WOMEN in the ORGANISATION are Treated like Second Class Citizens!!!
Take care J*L*C*R* … You have suffered like the rest of us at the hands of the GB & Watchtower . So I wish you well
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anonymous says:
May 30, 2015 at 10:56 am
J*L*C*R, don’t be put off by Lloyd’s comments to you. I think we were all a bit put off by your initial comments about Brie because you started off by says “if” she was a Witness all those years so you started off your comment by calling into question her truthfulness, which is what any JW apologist would do and then you said when she said Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness, it raised “red flags” to you which also implied she was lying. Then you ended it by saying that it was “troubling to you”. All those comments were calling into question the validity of Brie’s life story.
I was hoping that Lloyd would comment and I was glad he did and I thought his comment were quite nice considering how incendiary and suspicious that Brie was telling the truth about her life in the Watchtower, your initial comments seemed to be.
After explaining that you were just playing devils advocate, your comments seemed less like a Watchtower apologist and more understandable.
I have also had some of my comments not published because maybe I came off somewhat like your comment and being critical which is not helpful to our cause of bringing the Watchtower’s lies out in the open for all to see.
If you go to Youtube and go to Brie’s youtube video, there is a link you can read about her life story that explains a lot about how terribly her and her mother have been treated and you would understand why she isn’t going to give the Watchtower any respect by saying Jehovah’s Witnesses and instead says “Jehovah Witnesses”.
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 10:23 am
@J*L*C*R * . We ALL NEED as Many Comments on this site as possible. Your comments are Valued !!! I might be a bit Naughty at times with my comments but US BRITS HUMOUR May not be Appreciated by ALL . But we Need you ALL on this site !
Let’s Carry the Fight TOGETHER !!
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 4:01 pm
The watchtower is so messed up with women’s rights they wouldn’t even let sisters count the money in the donation box. These sisters were professional full time bank tellers that could count the donations and sort them in 15 minutes flat. But the “elders” decided that this was inappropriate for sisters to do, so they stepped in and fumbled through the same job in over an hour. It makes absolutely no sense, that and wearing a headdress if you lead a bible study with a baptized brother present. Even if the brother is family, if he’s baptized and in the same house at the time of the study, a headdress or hat is mandatory. Just stupid and crazy stuff on the watchtower’s part.
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Simon Kestral says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: comments not published
It may not be censorship, I think the web site software sometimes loses them. It’s happened to me.
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:46 pm
@Shanti . I LIKE your CALM LOGIC in your Comments & Reasoning to J*L*C*R *
Your comments show a very balanced approach & Attitude & did influence me in my Apology to J*L*C*R* .
We don’t want to intentionally hurt anyone who is struggling to get over from the damage the GB have done to people!!
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Simon Kestral says:
May 30, 2015 at 2:51 pm
A king has no power without his army.
Thus a few men on the GB don’t deserve all the blame. Their supporters are guilty too. Without them, the GB would have no power.
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:10 pm
@Apostates will SUFFER GNASHING of Teeth. I JUST CANT RESIST Having SENSIBLE DIALOGUE with you …. As we are getting on so well together … I Feel Quite Close to you ???? Pardon Me , but do you mind if I CALL You ‘ GNASHING ‘ for short … It has such a WARM FEEL To it !!!
Anyway my DEAR GNASHING , you sat the GLORIOUS TRUTH will SHINE THROUGH ‘!!!!
Could you Kindly tell me ‘Is that the GLORIOUS TRUTH about 1799(Last Days According to Russell)) & 1874& 1878 or 1914,1918,1919,1925,1975 or the Glorious Truth about ‘ the GENERATION ‘ or ‘Sheep& Goats or Who the F& D Slave are or whether to have ORGAN TRANSPLANTS????
Well my Dear Gnashing Teeth … See you at the DENTISTS!!! I think you NEED FILLING IN Or CROWNED !!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@ Simon Kestrel. I appreciated your comment about ‘Except’ ,
I enjoy your comments.
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:22 pm
@ GNASHING !!! WHERE ARE YOU … MY LOVE???
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J*L*C*R says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:45 pm
Thanks Pickled Brain…. Truer words were never spoken. We are stronger united and I am grateful for having this site here, to communicate.
Anyway, thanks for the support and good luck to you too. :)
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 30, 2015 at 3:48 pm
Something may be buggy on this site, my posts are not appearing in the order I thought I posted them.
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Swallowtail says:
May 30, 2015 at 5:04 pm
That is absolutely hilarious Pickled Brain. I am sure “Gnashing” had more important things to do, like go collect all the pocket change/ice cream money from the kids at his local kingdom hall. The society does not need the money or anything, they just need something shiny to glue to their miniature pyramid they are building. Got to let the light get brighter after all…….
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:19 pm
@Swallow Tail . GLAD you enjoyed the LOVE that is BLOSSOMING between ME & GNASHING ????!
I feel like writing a NEW BIBLE BOOK called …… Wait for it ….. Da DA Da …, ‘The SONG of GNASHING ‘. …Solomon … EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!!
SwallowTail .. I REALLY ENJOY your SENSE of HUMOUR TOO!!! My HERO ??is JOHN CLEESE!!! Just Love FAWLTY TOWERS & Parts of MONTY PYTHON!!!
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 9:57 pm
@J*L*C*R . YOU ARE RIGHT.., WE ARE STRONGER UNITED !!! Don’T LET the GB WIN by DIVIDING US … So APOLOGIES to ANYONE ELSE on this Site I may have Rubbed up the Wrong Way in the Past !!
Let’s BEAT the GB TOGETHER !!!!
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Swallowtail says:
May 31, 2015 at 8:48 am
hahaha! :-) Pickled Brain your “Song of Gnashing” is bound to make more sense than the Revelation its Grand Climax at Hand! book that we used to have to study. ;-)
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Pickled brain says:
May 30, 2015 at 10:29 pm
@Finn Sawyer. Scrolling back to earlier comments I noticed your ones . You show a Depth of wisdom in how you approach your subject like Shanti does .
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Finn Sawyer says:
May 30, 2015 at 11:04 pm
Thanks PB. I enjoy your comments as well.
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Pickled brain says:
May 31, 2015 at 10:43 am
@Swallowtail . Glad you like my ‘Song of Gnashing’… WONDER IF MY SONG will Make the NEW SONG BOOK !!! I will submit it to the GB…What do you think my chances are???
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Swallowtail says:
May 31, 2015 at 12:43 pm
@ Pickled Brain, Don’t you waste your awesome ‘Song of Gnashing’ on them now!! You keep that jewel for yourself and all of us! LOL
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Pickled brain says:
May 31, 2015 at 2:20 pm
@Swallowtail . I think you are right . My Talented Song would probably be wasted on the GB though I was thinking of Asking Stephen LETTS to Sing it !!
I MEAN his GNASHING GESTURES would be AMAZING!!! & David Splane would make a Great DRACULA!!!!
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Swallowtail says:
May 31, 2015 at 5:10 pm
THAT’S GENIUS Pickled Brain. Hey while we are at it, lets get them to perform it in some “tight pants”.
Reply
← Older Comments
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/brave-and-inspirational-schoolgirl-brie-takes-internet-by-storm-with-viral-video#comments
Brave and inspirational schoolgirl Brie takes internet by storm with viral video
avatar
Posted on May 26, 2015
A tearful Brie gives a brave speech in front of her classmates in a video that would later go viral
A tearful Brie gives a brave speech in front of her classmates in a video that would later go viral
Chances are if you’re reading this you are one of the 536,000 (and counting!) people who has already seen a remarkable video by a courageous schoolgirl named Brie.
Brie, a senior at Lincoln High School in Manitowoc, Wisconsin, was given an assignment with the rest of her classmates to deliver a “persuasive speech.”
“[The teacher] pointed out that speeches are much more persuasive when you’re using something you value to drive your ideas,” Brie later wrote on the Friendly Atheist blog. “It made me think about what I value in life and what my class needed to know about.”
When Brie gave her emotional speech she made sure one of her friends filmed it for her. She told her classmates of her experience growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, including the negative impact of shunning on her family and the covering up of abuse she has witnessed among her friends.
The resulting video was uploaded less than a week ago, but it has already gone well-and-truly viral – even catching the attention of the UK’s respected Independent newspaper.
We can be thankful to Brie’s teacher, Mr Hansen, for handing Brie an assignment that has turned out to be truly educational, not just for her class, but for the whole world.
This brave 18-year-old girl has seized an opportunity to stand up to Watchtower, a sinister bully that exports misery on a global scale, and has utterly exposed and shamed it in front of over half a million people.
“It is a religion that preaches love and acceptance, but the reality is everything is conditional,” said Brie. “Love and acceptance is only extended as long as members practice absolute obedience and question nothing, ever. This religion destroys lives, destroys families and they do it largely unchecked… because they are really good at silencing the people who leave.”
Probably many ex-Witnesses like me will have felt a twinge of envy while watching these words spoken, simply because we too have been victimized by Watchtower and would have given anything to turn back the clock and take such a bold stand as teenagers.
But not many of us, myself included, were as courageous back then as Brie is now – and that is the crucial difference.
I cannot thank Brie enough for her inspirational words, and for taking such a powerful stand for her generation. Brie has done what any good activist does: she has taken the pain experienced by herself and others and turned it into something positive and productive by using it to raise awareness and thus spare others, not least her classmates, from what she has gone through.
The runaway success of Brie’s video highlights clearly that the Watchtower finds itself in a whole new ball game. The tables have well and truly turned.
Gone are the days when the Governing Body could withhold information from those tenacious and persistent enough to search for it. Gone are the days when they could stifle free thought, and keep young, intelligent people in silence and subjection.
The internet has changed everything. Now everybody has a voice if they will only summon the courage to use it. It is a privilege to see a brave young woman like Brie do just that, and find her voice with such stunning results.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾Independent article
◾Friendly Atheist article (by Brie herself)
◾Rawstory article
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/brave-and-inspirational-schoolgirl-brie-takes-internet-by-storm-with-viral-video#comments
11 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
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Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
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Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
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Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
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Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
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frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
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Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
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Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
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frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
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http://jwsurvey.org/video-home
Videos
New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
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