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Get God out of Government!
Posted by Alan Perlman on November 4, 2013 at 6:45pm
View Blog
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-- Thomas Jefferson
 
Jesus H. Christ!!  I cannot believe that the Supreme Court is AGAIN about to debate the legitimacy of the spouting of religious BS in governmental settings.  WHY have we not got this resolved by now?  It's not as if several prominent Founders weren't atheists - do you think they would have agreed to a religious state?
Anyway, here were are in 2013 arguing what should have been decided long ago, except that the weight of tradition is very heavy, and religious people, in smug possession of the truth, won't quit.  Inertia, ignorance and stubbornness -- bad combination.
It's bad enough that the Court itself begins sessions with "God save blah, blah, blah..."  Or that in the past (Warren Burger), the Court has indeed upheld "opening invocations that call for God's blessing."  Now it's down to town councils, which are aggressively Christian.  A Jew and an atheist brought legal action, as well they should, but here the logic splits.
O'Connor's "endorsement" test
Sandra Day O'Connor had it right when she said that the government must not appear, to a reasonable observer, to be "endorsing a religion."  The overtly Christian crap crosses that line.  But later courts have allowed religious expression without requiring everyone to participate.
What kind of hair-splitting is that?  Non-Christians are allowed to walk out?  Or wear ear plugs?
The logic splits between the Jewish and the atheistic protestor.  The former's goal is easy to achieve: allow other religions to take the platform.  Slippery slope, though.  Christian prayers are benign.  What if a Muslim kid gets up and calls for jihad?  What if one kid is a Haitian immigrant and believes in voodoo?
Linguistic nits
There are two linguistic nuances in O'Connor's formulation.  One is that "endorse" is vague. There are invocations that call for God's blessing (supposedly not endorsing a religion), and ones that pray in the name of Jesus (endorsing a religion).  I think O'Connor would be OK with the vanilla, God-centered prayer.
This brings us to the second nuance, the indefinite article "a."  Prohibiting "endorsing a religion" does not go far enough.  This is a secular country.  Unbelievers are at least a sixth - more than Jews or Wicccans.
The state must not endorse religion, period.
So at the very least, a humanist meditation or even an articulate argument against God should be included at the beginning, along with the series of religious messages.  You could do it in the same length as -- or shorter than -- those windy, boring "God grant us..." orations. 
So one possibilitby is that the other side could be heard at the beginning of the town meeting (or of the Supreme Court, if they wanted to), to the outrage of many, no doubt.  Anger is the only response that many ignorant religious people can muster to the honest questioning of their fantasies.
CFI and the other secular organizations should be all over this, if they aren't already.
Sometimes even smart Americans are so ignorant I want to scream.  The Supremes are like the Flatlanders who can't comprehend that there's a third dimension: no religion at all.  Yes!  The state could appear to be endorsing no religion at all!  Just call the damned meeting to order.
Has that not occurred to anyone in the govrnment?
 

Views: 1
Tags: Christianity, and, atheism, church, in, prayer, religion, school, state

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Get God out of Government!
Posted by Alan Perlman on November 4, 2013 at 6:45pm
View Blog
.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
-- Thomas Jefferson
 
Jesus H. Christ!!  I cannot believe that the Supreme Court is AGAIN about to debate the legitimacy of the spouting of religious BS in governmental settings.  WHY have we not got this resolved by now?  It's not as if several prominent Founders weren't atheists - do you think they would have agreed to a religious state?
Anyway, here were are in 2013 arguing what should have been decided long ago, except that the weight of tradition is very heavy, and religious people, in smug possession of the truth, won't quit.  Inertia, ignorance and stubbornness -- bad combination.
It's bad enough that the Court itself begins sessions with "God save blah, blah, blah..."  Or that in the past (Warren Burger), the Court has indeed upheld "opening invocations that call for God's blessing."  Now it's down to town councils, which are aggressively Christian.  A Jew and an atheist brought legal action, as well they should, but here the logic splits.
O'Connor's "endorsement" test
Sandra Day O'Connor had it right when she said that the government must not appear, to a reasonable observer, to be "endorsing a religion."  The overtly Christian crap crosses that line.  But later courts have allowed religious expression without requiring everyone to participate.
What kind of hair-splitting is that?  Non-Christians are allowed to walk out?  Or wear ear plugs?
The logic splits between the Jewish and the atheistic protestor.  The former's goal is easy to achieve: allow other religions to take the platform.  Slippery slope, though.  Christian prayers are benign.  What if a Muslim kid gets up and calls for jihad?  What if one kid is a Haitian immigrant and believes in voodoo?
Linguistic nits
There are two linguistic nuances in O'Connor's formulation.  One is that "endorse" is vague. There are invocations that call for God's blessing (supposedly not endorsing a religion), and ones that pray in the name of Jesus (endorsing a religion).  I think O'Connor would be OK with the vanilla, God-centered prayer.
This brings us to the second nuance, the indefinite article "a."  Prohibiting "endorsing a religion" does not go far enough.  This is a secular country.  Unbelievers are at least a sixth - more than Jews or Wicccans.
The state must not endorse religion, period.
So at the very least, a humanist meditation or even an articulate argument against God should be included at the beginning, along with the series of religious messages.  You could do it in the same length as -- or shorter than -- those windy, boring "God grant us..." orations. 
So one possibilitby is that the other side could be heard at the beginning of the town meeting (or of the Supreme Court, if they wanted to), to the outrage of many, no doubt.  Anger is the only response that many ignorant religious people can muster to the honest questioning of their fantasies.
CFI and the other secular organizations should be all over this, if they aren't already.
Sometimes even smart Americans are so ignorant I want to scream.  The Supremes are like the Flatlanders who can't comprehend that there's a third dimension: no religion at all.  Yes!  The state could appear to be endorsing no religion at all!  Just call the damned meeting to order.
Has that not occurred to anyone in the govrnment?
 

Views: 1
Tags: Christianity, and, atheism, church, in, prayer, religion, school, state

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Latest Activity
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Everything

..

Alan Perlman shared Luara's blog post on Facebook.

The dysfunctional relationship between skeptics and true believers.
13 minutes ago.
Alan Perlman posted a blog post.

Get God out of Government!

.
18 minutes ago
0     0  
.
Kelvin Hilerio replied to LBGT Atheist/Secular Humanist's discussion Whether to label one self as Atheist, Humanist, Secular Humanist, Non-theist???.
23 minutes ago.
Greg replied to Dr. Allan H. Clark's discussion Spufford's rant against atheists.
34 minutes ago.
Kelvin Hilerio replied to Ernst Hansen's discussion Naive question: Why religion?.
42 minutes ago.
Profile IconFrederick Heimberg, Eduardo Santos, Life Contemplator and 17 more joined Atheist Nexus.

.
47 minutes ago.
Alan Perlman commented on Alan Perlman's blog post Straddling the fence on superstition.
1 hour ago.
Kelvin Hilerio posted a status.

"I feel absolutely terrible.".
1 hour ago
0     0  
.
Ernst Hansen posted a discussion.

Naive question: Why religion?.
1 hour ago
1     0  
.
Luara commented on Luara's blog post The dysfunctional relationship between skeptics and true believers.
1 hour ago.
EducationIsCool posted a video.

Fox News - Atheists Are Not Intelligent

Response to: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-religion-panel-gets-heated-when-catholic-insults-atheist-as-unintelligent/ All clips/photos are used under FAIR U....
1 hour ago
0     0  
.
Loren Miller replied to LBGT Atheist/Secular Humanist's discussion Whether to label one self as Atheist, Humanist, Secular Humanist, Non-theist???.
1 hour ago.
.
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Welcome to Wikipedia,
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4,367,605 articles in English

 Arts
Biography
Geography
 History
Mathematics
Science
 Society
Technology
All portals
 

From today's featured article
 

Francis Tresham
Francis Tresham (c. 1567 – 1605) was one of the English provincial Catholics who planned the failed Gunpowder Plot of 1605, a conspiracy to assassinate King James I. Having previously been imprisoned for his role in a failed rebellion and involved in missions to Spain that sought support for persecuted English Catholics, Tresham joined the Gunpowder Plot in October 1605. Its leader Robert Catesby asked him to provide a large sum of money and the use of Rushton Hall, but Tresham apparently provided neither, instead giving a small amount of money to fellow plotter Thomas Wintour. Tresham also expressed his concern that two of his brothers-in-law would be killed if the plot succeeded. An anonymous letter delivered to one of them was handed to Robert Cecil, 1st Earl of Salisbury, and was decisive in foiling the conspiracy. Historians suspect that Tresham wrote it, although this is unproven. Catesby and Wintour thought that Tresham was the author and threatened to kill him, but he convinced them otherwise. Tresham was arrested on 12 November and confined in the Tower of London, where he died of natural causes the following month; his confession did not mention the letter. (Full article...)
Recently featured: "Lisa the Skeptic" – Bob Feller – Sea
Archive – By email – More featured articles...
 
Did you know...
 

From Wikipedia's new and recently improved content:

Guqin by Situ Qiao
... that artist Situ Qiao was imprisoned and deported by the U.S. government for trying to sell his own paintings (example pictured)?
... that Australian cricketer David Boon scored eight of his international cricket centuries against India?
... that circuit rider Harry Hosier was the first African American to preach to a white congregation in the United States?
... that the recently revealed Lockheed Martin SR-72, the successor to the SR-71, is designed to fly at six times the speed of sound?
... that Rama Ravi is an Indian Carnatic vocalist who has also learned the Bharata Natyam Indian dance form and plays two musical instruments, the veena and the mridangam?
... that impressionist painter Harry Fidler, who was born into farming, became known for painting farm horses?
... that the jail attached to the Benzie County Courthouse was nicknamed "The County Root Cellar"?
Archive – Start a new article – Nominate an article

 
In the news
 

Hakimullah Mehsud
German media reveal the 2011 discovery of Nazi plundered art worth €1bn in Munich, including lost works by Picasso and Matisse.
In baseball, the Boston Red Sox defeat the St. Louis Cardinals to win the World Series, and the Tohoku Rakuten Golden Eagles defeat the Yomiuri Giants to win the Japan Series.
Pakistani Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud (pictured) is confirmed killed in a drone strike.
The Marmaray rail tunnel under the Bosphorus opens, connecting the European and Asian parts of Turkey.
The Front for Victory loses seats but retains its majority in the Argentine legislative election.
Recent deaths: Tadeusz Mazowiecki
More current events...
 
On this day...
 

November 5: Guy Fawkes Night in Great Britain and some Commonwealth countries (1605)

Byford Dolphin semi-submersible oil rig
1838 – The collapse of the Federal Republic of Central America began with Nicaragua seceding from the union.
1916 – An armed confrontation in Everett, Washington, US, between local authorities and members of the Industrial Workers of the World resulted in seven deaths.
1950 – Korean War: The 27th British Commonwealth Brigade succeeded in preventing a Chinese break-through at Pakchon in the Battle of Pakchon.
1983 – Five workers on the Byford Dolphin semi-submersible oil rig (pictured) were killed in an explosive decompression while drilling in the Frigg gas field in the North Sea.
2003 – American serial killer Gary Ridgway pleaded guilty to 48 counts of first degree murder.
More anniversaries: November 4 – November 5 – November 6
Archive – By email – List of historical anniversaries
It is now November 5, 2013 (UTC) – Reload this page

 

Today's featured picture
 

Frank Sinatra
American singer Frank Sinatra (1915–98) in 1947, at the Liederkrantz Hall in New York. Sinatra began his career in 1935, reaching unprecedented success after being signed by Columbia Records in 1943. After a lull in the late 1940s, his career regained new vigor in the 1950s.
Photo: William P. Gottlieb
Recently featured: Duladeo Temple – Phidippus audax portrait – Azure Kingfisher

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Other areas of Wikipedia
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Wikipedia's sister projects
Wikipedia is hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation, a non-profit organization that also hosts a range of other projects:
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Wikipedia languages

This Wikipedia is written in English. Started in 2001, it currently contains 4,367,605 articles. Many other Wikipedias are available; some of the largest are listed below.
More than 1,000,000 articles:
Deutsch·
 español·
 français·
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 русский·
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