Stand Up for your Belief
.
328 Fans
.
01:41 PM on 10/22/2011
People need to get away from "tradition" and MAN made religion and follow what the Bible says.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
268 Fans
.
02:10 PM on 10/22/2011
LOL! The bible was written by men for men to control men. It reflects all the limitations and prejudices of the men who wrote it. People need to evolve beyond their narrow bibliolatry.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines] .
Permalink |Hide replies .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
553 Fans
.
03:54 PM on 10/21/2011
Re: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."
2 Tim. 4:3-4 15 leaders that fit the above scripture.
Or, it could be your notion of Christianity fits the above scripture best. Your view of Christian seems to have all the trappings of Christianity without the love and compassion. Instead of love, you preach a religion of hate and animosity towards those who are different.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
721 Fans
.
10:28 PM on 10/21/2011
No it couldnt be that actually since the above scripture embodies the other existing scriptures such as the ones found in Leviticus and Romans. It clearly says a departure from existing scripture, which I have not done.
I preach love within the context of the God's word. Not a love that condones sinful acts. Jesus didnt even do that. Thats moral relativism and it is ascriptural. You are welcome to your opinion, you arent welcome to rewrite the meaning of scripture. Afterall if you arent going to adhere to scripture, why use the Bible at all? Just make up your own religion. It would be alot easier for you and everyone else.
Permalink | Share it .
There are More Comments on this Thread. Click Here To See them All
spinner
spinner
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness For Jesus? .
136 Fans
.
04:32 AM on 10/21/2011
Caption suggestion; " Lets be good bad examples "
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
Hamid Fana
.
19 Fans
.
01:17 AM on 10/21/2011
Imam Daayiee Abdullah is not inspiring..a quick glimpse of his website shows that he's running a business charging exorbitant rates couseling and conducting marriages ($1000) WHICH under Islamic law are expectations of a community leader (Imam) i.e. free to the community.. not something to make money off of.. historically, the greatest leaders of Muslim communities have not only been religious leaders but also doctors, scientists, authors, warriors, or business men which gave them a source of income so they don't depend on charging people for religious duties.. if a poor Muslim wants to get married, he has the right to it without having to spend thousands to get this fake Imam..... as a queer of Muslim background, i find this guy repulsive.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
TexasTreader
Gone fishin' .
1996 Fans
.
11:19 AM on 10/21/2011
The Christian Apostle, Paul, ALSO made a point of supporting himself by his own work. I've always been suspicious of professional clergy. I understand the attraction and I don't see scripture forbidding it but there is a command to not use God's name vainly. I'd sure like to stay on the right side of THAT line.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FilipeCastro
.
75 Fans
.
11:59 PM on 10/21/2011
I think that the Christian Apostle Paul is a fictional character, but I agree with you.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
268 Fans
.
01:00 AM on 10/21/2011
It's encouraging that Christianity and Judaism are evolving out of their anti-gay bigotry phase. The authoritarian religionists here who arrogantly think that their anti-gay version of their faith is the correct one are the ones who are being left behind.
Permalink | Share it .
phyrro
.
225 Fans
.
02:05 AM on 10/21/2011
As a non gay atheist against anti-gay bigotry, I might think that some of these religious leaders are a "start". Not completely understanding all the circumstances I would like to learn what your objections to these "go-gooders" are.
Permalink | Share it .
TomMartin
Freedom and equality. .
347 Fans
.
04:30 AM on 10/21/2011
I think you misunderstood the poster.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
Varys
.
388 Fans
.
01:07 PM on 10/21/2011
The anti-gay version of Christianity is the one that acknowledges holy scripture. Whether that's the "correct" one I'll leave for you to decide.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Balancement
Timendi causa est nescire. -- Seneca .
3905 Fans
.
12:31 AM on 10/21/2011
I suppose I should wade through the posts below--but I'm carrying with me the wisdom of Bishop John Shelby Spong as a shield: "Too many people use the Bible as a drunk does a lamp-post; for support, rather than illumination."
Permalink | Share it .
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
02:50 PM on 10/23/2011
How do you figure when the vast majority of Americans are Biblically-ILLiterate anymore? They wouldn't know what to stand on let alone use it for support.
Permalink | Share it .
Challlie
.
44 Fans
.
11:18 PM on 10/23/2011
there are plenty of countries with a more dense population of biblically-literate people. we're at war with a few of them. distance between a person and his or her bible does not equate to distance between a person and god.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
duncansdad
.
878 Fans
.
10:39 PM on 10/20/2011
The postings here by the folks who like to think they are the most religious, are the some of the most vicious and hateful I have seen in a while.
Shame on you all.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
Challlie
.
44 Fans
.
07:48 PM on 10/20/2011
i've noticed a direct relationship between the number of bible quotations in a post and the number of grammatical and spelling errors.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FilipeCastro
.
75 Fans
.
12:00 AM on 10/22/2011
:o) I live in Texas and I agree with you!
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
02:49 PM on 10/23/2011
I see. And your lack of capitalization in "I" says nothing either, I take it...? Hubris...
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lastwarning2earth rev14
DeceptionExposer .
99 Fans
.
06:53 PM on 10/20/2011
Jesus is the pattern, I follow, and know one else.
There are Many false teachers.
Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them"
There goes everyone on the above list and then some.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
duncansdad
.
878 Fans
.
10:33 PM on 10/20/2011
And you should go, as well
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
Lucy0808
.
1195 Fans
.
11:42 PM on 10/20/2011
You missed the whole point of Jesus' teachings. The irony is amazing.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
phyrro
.
225 Fans
.
02:20 AM on 10/21/2011
You quote "If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them" and I say
"If you speak not my Law or the testimony, theres no light in you". For I, the 53rd OverGod am the the True God and your God is merely a peon.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
553 Fans
.
04:07 PM on 10/21/2011
Re: Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, there's no light in them"
Nothing like misquoting a passage from the Bible out of context to make a point!
Isaiah 8:20 refers to those who seek guidance from ghosts and spirits (see verse 19).
"Now if people say to you, ‘Consult the ghosts and the familiar spirits that chirp and mutter; should not a people consult their gods, the dead on behalf of the living, for teaching and for instruction?’ surely, those who speak like this will have no dawn!" (Isaiah 8:19-20).
Re: "There are Many false teachers."
Should we count you as one of them?
Permalink | Share it .
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
02:53 PM on 10/23/2011
Matthew 7:15
[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Test yourself...
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
553 Fans
.
03:25 PM on 10/23/2011
You will know them by their fruit. What fruit is this?
"By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things" (Galatians 5:22-23).
The false prophets preach a message of condemnation and hate. Many conservative Christians supported slavery, then they supported Jim Crow laws and segregation; they fought against federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights. In the 1940s, most conservative Christians were Democrats, but as the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, many conservative Christians switched parties from the Democrats to the Republicans, thus making the Republican Party the party of conservative Christians, a direct result of their thinly veiled racism.
Mainline Protestant Churches are inclusive to the point where many of them are now ordaining those in same-sex relationships. But the conservative Christians are like ravenous wolves attempting to condemn and devour anyone who is different. They don't preach God's love, but rather preach condemnation and hate.
Permalink | Share it .
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
09:36 PM on 10/23/2011
On the point of slavery, it wouldn't be the first time that some professing the faith have used it as a cover for other selfish agendas. They have forgotten God in those instances, & one day, they'll have to stand before Him to give an account of their actions.
As regards the ordination of people in same-sex relationships, it has nothing to do with being "different", but it has everything to do w/ what is sinful in Scripture. God's love is already DEFINED: Even Jesus reaffirmed the model of marriage in the NT that was based on the creation model: one man to one woman...for LIFE. Any other model is nothing but a counterfeit of God's model. As God already defined what love is since HE IS LOVE, no man has the authority nor the right to profane that model for their own selfish agenda. What people have chosen to call "love" in our current culture is nothing short of lust masquerading as love...And to push that agenda thru, some have resorted to some interesting tactics. Don't believe me? Look up Marshall Kirk's name...His book, "After the Ball: Why the Homosexual Movement Has Won" & his other work, "The Overhauling of Straight America" only proves this point deeper. I've seen the changes myself over the last 30 yrs...We've come a long way, baby...Truly we have...And we are in deeper doodoo than ever...
Permalink | Share it .
Challlie
.
44 Fans
.
11:07 PM on 10/23/2011
since when does god's love have boundaries? i read a different book, my friend.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
Challlie
.
44 Fans
.
10:59 PM on 10/23/2011
be mindful of anyone who offers warnings about anyone else who offers truth regarding a subject whose matter is wholly unverifiable. logic 1:01
one does not strengthen a claim to the truth when there is none by claiming other people are telling you the wrong truth.
you're a false prophet. test yourself. see, just as valid when i say it to you.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 Next › Last » (4 total)
.
spinner
.
Most Popular
Man Overhears Strangers Getting Diagnosis, Reacts In Wonderful Way
Note
10 Things Only Women With Big Boobs Can Understand
182901532
Men Got Us Into The Shutdown, Women Got Us Out
Susan Collins
Principal Raped Boy In Office While Parent Was Outside: Cops
David
11 Lessons That 'Jane Eyre' Can Teach Every 21st Century Woman About How To Live Well
Jane Eyre
Stenographer Removed For Shouting On House Floor
Us Capitol Building
WATCH: Disney Princess Revealed To Be Bisexual
Once Upon A Time
Two Minutes That Could Have Cost Me Everything
Jennifer Meer
Vanity Fair To Run 'Epic Takedown' Piece On Gwyneth Paltrow
Gwyneth Paltrow
How To Be A Woman, According To Amy And Tina
Amy Poehler Tina Fey
'Community' Actor Posts Troubling Instagram Note
Donald Glover
Why Your Thong May Be Bad For Your Health
Thong Health
Shutdown Enters Third Week
Harry Reid
Student Commits Suicide Inside School
School Suicide
Rielle Hunter I, Rielle Hunter, Apologize
Rielle Hunter
Follow HuffPost
Email
Facebook
Twitter
Google Plus
RSS
Mobile
HuffPost Daily Brief Religion
Get top stories and blogs posts emailed to you each day.
.
.
Advertise |
Log In |
Make HuffPost your Home Page |
RSS |
Careers |
FAQ
User Agreement |
Privacy |
Comment Policy |
About Us |
About Our Ads |
Contact Us
Copyright © 2013 TheHuffingtonPost.com, Inc. |
"The Huffington Post" is a registered trademark of TheHuffingtonPost.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
Part of AOL Family
.
More in ReligionVatican Issues Dire Warning On Sistine Chapel
Hinduism
True Colorsundefined iOS app Android app More
Log in Create Account
.
October 17, 2013
religion
Edition: U.S.
Follow
.
FRONT PAGE
Healthy Living
Here's Why Your Favorite Foods Are So Hard To Resist274
8 Things You Probably Didn't Know About Deodorant582
Bad News For Male Bacon Lovers Looking To Conceive173
8 Nutritionist-Approved High-Protein Snacks To Keep You Satisfied279
How Some Of The World's Most Successful People Discovered Their Spiritual Side
Go to Healthy Living
More in Healthy LivingGPS for the Soul
Health And Fitness
Health News
Becoming Fearless
Sleep
You might also likeFood
Post 50
Taste
Religion
OWN
.
Politics
Winner Of N.J. Special Election Announced5.3k
John Boehner: 'We Just Didn't Win'17k
Shutdown Enters Third Week3.8k
GOP Rep: 'This Party Is Going Nuts'3.9k
15 Reasons Why American Politics Has Become An Apocalyptic Mess2k
Go to Politics
More in PoliticsPollster
Politics Blog
Off The Bus
Election Maps
You might also likeWorld
Green
Black Voices
Latino Voices
Gay Voices
.
World
Amelia Earhart Mystery May Be Solved Next Year423
LOOK: Did North Korea Paint Civilian Jets With Camouflage?247
LOOK: Stunning Color Photos Give Rare Glimpse Into Nazi-Occupied Poland130
Country With The Most Child Brides Won't Agree To End Forced Child Marriage405
Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's Bad Week On Twitter Gets NSFW22
Go to World
More in WorldForeign Affairs
Drug War
Afghanistan
Syria Conflict
World Videos
You might also likeTravel
Politics
Business
Tech
Religion
.
Arts
9 Striking Portraits That Will Change The Way You View Breast Cancer Survivors280
12 Raw Photos Capture A Mother's Experience Raising Twins (NSFW)212
Calling For Gender Equity In The Art World
Banksy's Unexpected 9/11 Tribute148
Finally! Here's The First Glimpse Of NPH's New Broadway Role24
Go to Arts
More in ArtsPainting
Film
Design
Photography
Theater
Architecture
You might also likeBooks
New York
Los Angeles
.
Impact
This Woman Wrote The Perfect Response To A Note Left For Her Quadriplegic Husband
Severely Wounded Army Ranger Brings Grown Men To Tears With Unexpected Salute From Hospital567
Teens With Down Syndrome Named Homecoming Queen And King In Ceremony Fit For Royalty76
How A 9-Year-Old Girl From Guinea Finally Got The Medical Care She Needed
Michael Kors Wants You To Know What World Food Day Is
Go to Impact
More in ImpactOpportunity
Greatest Person
Charity
Homelessness
Volunteering
Heroes
You might also likeEducation
Black Voices
Gay Voices
Latino Voices
.
Science
Big Space Rock Raised From Bottom Of Lake296
FRIDAY: How To See Lunar Eclipse36
WATCH: Space Probe's Long Hibernation To End257
Ancient King Eludes Archaeologists Once Again103
Ancient Mummy Has Living Relatives In Region, Scientists Say103
Go to Science
More in ScienceSpace
Brain
Earth
Talk Nerdy To Me
Weird Science
You might also likeTech
Green
Arts
Religion
Weird
.
Women
10 Things Only Women With Big Boobs Can Understand1.1k
How To Be A Woman, According To Amy And Tina37
What Slate Got So Wrong About College Women And Sexual Assault151
5 Things Every Working Woman Can Learn From Olivia Pope16
LOOK: Proof Betty Ford Was A Total Badass14
Go to Women
More in WomenLove & Sex
Career & Money
Women's Health
You might also likeStyle
Weddings
Divorce
Parents
Healthy Living
Black Voices
Latino Voices
.
Black Voices
Timberland's Wife Files For Divorce
WATCH: Bishop T.D. Jakes Blasts 'Preachers Of L.A.'
WATCH: 2013 BET Hip Hop Awards Performances
Black Prada Model Achieves Another Amazing Feat31
Important Piece Of Black History Almost Destroyed Before Being Returned55
Go to Black Voices
More in Black VoicesPower & Politics
Pop Culture
Fashion & Beauty
Life
Sunday Magazine
You might also likeLatino Voices
Gay Voices
Arts
Comedy
Food
.
Gay Voices
WATCH: Disney Princess Revealed To Be Bisexual555
Barilla's Not Alone: 8 Other Companies That Don't Support Gay Rights942
Know Your LGBT History: 21 Influential Black LGBT Icons99
Portland Trailblazers Become First NBA Team To Make BIG Gay Move164
Controversial New Eminem Single Is FULL Of Gay Slurs686
Go to Gay Voices
More in Gay VoicesTransgender
Bisexual
Lesbian
Gay Marriage
Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Voice to Voice
Poll Position
You might also likeBlack Voices
Latino Voices
Style
.
LIVE
Next Carson Kressley On This Week's Style
Next Kendall Schmidt Going On Tour
Tomorrow NSA Involved In Targeted Killings
Tomorrow WorldBrief with @ASE October 18
Tomorrow Ex Etiquette
Go to HuffPost Live
.
ALL SECTIONS
News
Politics
World
Business
Small Business
Money
Media
Sports
Education
Crime
Weird News
Good News
Entertainment
Entertainment
Celebrity
Comedy
Arts & Culture
Books
TV
Life & Style
Healthy Living
GPS for the Soul
Style
Home
Food
Taste
Weddings
Travel
Parents
Divorce
Huff/Post 50
Marlo Thomas
OWN
Tech & Science
Tech
Science
Green
TEDWeekends
Voices
Women
Black Voices
Latino Voices
Voces (en español)
Gay Voices
Religion
College
Teen
Impact
Local
Chicago
DC
Denver
Detroit
Hawaii
Los Angeles
Miami
New York
San Francisco
.
Our Mobile AppsiPhone
iPad
HuffPost Live iPad
Android Phone
Android Tablet
.
.
Religion Buddhism
Christianity
Hinduism
Islam
Judaism
Sikhism
Religion and Science
Interfaith
Scripture Commentary
Prayer and Meditation
Death
.
Famed Pastor Reportedly Snubs Unwed Mom
I've Got Spirit, And So Do You
Not All Spanish Are Thrilled With Papa Francisco
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1411782/thumbs/r-SISTINE-CHAPEL-medium260.jpg
Vatican Issues Dire Warning On Sistine Chapel
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1411150/thumbs/r-BA-medium260.jpg
My Grandfather's Hajj
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1412050/thumbs/r-DAVION-ONLY-medium260.jpg
Brave Orphan's Plea Will Break Your Heart
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1410358/thumbs/r-BISHOP-medium260.jpg
WATCH: Excommunicated Priest: American Missionaries Feed LGBT Hate In Uganda
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1412669/thumbs/r-DIANNE-medium260.jpg
The House Stenographer's Favorite Bible Verses
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1411134/thumbs/r-SUZAN-JOHNSON-COOK-medium260.jpg
Religious Freedom Ambassador Unexpectedly Resigning
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1410275/thumbs/r-ANTJE-JACKELEN-medium260.jpg
Sweden Elects First Female Archbishop
Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
Share on Google+
.
Gay religious leaders .
Get Religion Newsletters:
Subscribe
..
Follow:
Video, Gay Christian Church, Gay Christian Clergy, Gay Christian Groups, Gay Christian Leaders, Gay Faith Leaders, Gay Muslims, Gay Orthodox Rabbi, Gay Religious Leaders, Lgbt Clergy, Lgbt Religious Leaders, Religion and Sexuality, Photo Galleries, Religion News
.
Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
...
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
?
Most Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
?
?
1 of 91
?
?
Next
.
Contribute to this Story:
Send us a tip
Send us a photo or video
Suggest a correction
.
FOLLOW RELIGION
Like.
65k
Subscribe
.
by Taboola
Religious Leaders React To Syrian Crisis
Is There A Rift Between Lesbians And Bi Women?
Have Bar Mitzvahs Lost Their Religious Meaning?
The Latest In Gray Hair SolutionsHair Color For Women
What Kids Who Don't Eat Vegetables Look Like When They Grow UpNick Mom
You Won't Believe Who's Related to Abraham LincolnAncestry.com
.
Read more from Huffington Post bloggers:
Rev. Dr. Mark Achtemeier
Chely Wright
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.
Nancy Cronk
Laverne Cox
David Lose
Lee Jefferson
Rev. Dr. Mark Achtemeier
Rev. Dr. Mark Achtemeier: Coming Out as an Evangelical Supporter of Gay Rights
When I was ordained in 1984 I believed that gay and lesbian people could become "normal" through repentance and prayer. But in the last decade, I began to discover that God had other plans.
Chely Wright
Chely Wright: Confessions of a Gay Christian Country Singer
The very root of who I am and the core of what Country Music seems to be about is honesty, openness and accessibility. But I had to close myself off in order to survive.
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.: What Was the Real Sin of Sodom?
The true sin of the Sodomites as described in the Bible has nothing to do with same-sex acts per se. Rather, the ancient Sodomites were punished by God for a far greater sins: radical inhospitality.
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.: "Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin" And Other Modern-Day Heresies
I believe those Christians who "hate" LGBT sexualities and gender expressions while allegedly "loving" LGBT people are nothing more than modern-day gnostics, who were condemned as heretical by early Church theologians.
More Blog Posts: « First Prev 1 2 Next Last »
Around the Web:
What The Bible Says | Assault On Gay America | FRONTLINE | PBS
Pastors unite to support same-sex marriage in D.C.: Â'There is this ...
Black, Gay and Christian
Religion and Sexuality : Pictures, Videos, Breaking News
Filed by Paul Brandeis Raushenbush |
Comments
569
Pending Comments
0
View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Highlights
.
Recency |
Popularity .
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 (4 total)
.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iknowscottyknows
.
153 Fans
.
06:49 PM on 10/20/2011
Enjoy the little limelight you have while you can.
"As for man, his days are as grass, like the flower of the field so he flourishes. Then the wind passes over and it is gone, and the place thereof knows it no more." Psalm 103:15
"It is appointed once for a man to die, then the judgment." Hebrews 9:27
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Lucy0808
.
1195 Fans
.
11:43 PM on 10/20/2011
"Limelight"? Huh?
"Life" is the word. A powerful word, indeed.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
phyrro
.
225 Fans
.
02:23 AM on 10/21/2011
Leave the "then the judgment" out and your on to something.
Permalink | Share it .
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
02:55 PM on 10/23/2011
I take it you don't like that word, "judgment". But you do realize that your comment IS itself a judment. God is the Ultimate Judge. We all will stand before Him one day.
Permalink | Share it .
Challlie
.
44 Fans
.
11:03 PM on 10/23/2011
your comment is itself a judgment. the ultimate judge does not need a peanut gallery.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
yeshuachrist
.
37 Fans
.
06:44 PM on 10/20/2011
The church is supposed to be "in" the world, not "of" the world. Yeshua's teachings are not easy to follow, they do not include adhering to the respect of persons, you treat people with righteousness, and love, but love doesn't include appeasement of someones iniquities. There is a major sea change in the world with regard to how people view G-D. They have lost their fear of him as the fear of G-D is only understood as the fear of retribution, which is misguided. We only focus on the love of Christ, not his teaching's. No person deserves to be persecuted, all people should be treated with general respect but the church ceases being a church once they begin "accepting" iniquity because they want to be "accepted" in this world.
http://www.yahwehyeshua.com
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Lucy0808
.
1195 Fans
.
11:46 PM on 10/20/2011
Love. All there is, is love. Love thy neighbor. Turn the other cheek. Help the least among us. Love.
It is not about the "church". It has never been.
Permalink | Share it .
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
02:46 PM on 10/23/2011
God is love. As such, He alone has the right to tell us how true love is defined as He'd wired us in His image. But people being what they are have redefined love to suit themselves. Storge, Phileo, Eros, & Agape...It seems like people have gotten fixated on the Eros part & twisted it to suit an agenda anymore when even that part had a design & purpose.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Lucy0808
.
1195 Fans
.
02:55 PM on 10/23/2011
For people who don't understand science, sometimes they make things up or make statements out of their lack of knowledge. Your post was in that regard.
What is meant when people say that science is objective, is the fact of the process which includes methods for inquiry, peer review, and the institution globally of highly educated and peer accepted scientists, funding apparatus and place of science record and exchange. Your example of a mistake somewhere is besides the point. It isn't even helpful. The point being the process weeds out the mistakes, or the incorrect hypotheses, or the silliness. That is so minor as to be off topic on the subject. The redundancy of science and the orthagonal inquiry, as well as peer review, screens out the junk for the most part or makes it part of the noise because the good work and the correct and repeatable work, and that which is supported by orthagonal methods overwhelmingly is in more numerous studies and by more numerous scientists, and has been "peer reviewed". This makes it a far more objective process by scientific method, peer review, and that scientists no matter where they come from in place and time, culture/religion/economic strata/and language can repeat the work(under the same criteria) or they can't and then it goes to the trash bin. This is the opposite of subjective reality put forth by religious people that can't be tested or affirmed in that same regard.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
phyrro
.
225 Fans
.
02:41 AM on 10/21/2011
You must so be terrified of G-D that you can't even spell his name out or maybe you ran out of "o"s. I can send you some in fact here are bunch of them.
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o and some capital ones also O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O if you run out I got plenty more.
From your enclosed email address it appears you have no problem with YAHW-H. I personally am terrified of him and could never spell him YAHWEH. Oh No. Now I've gone and done it.
Permalink | Share it .
There are More Comments on this Thread. Click Here To See them All
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
hank p wall
.
3 Fans
.
06:16 PM on 10/20/2011
One cannot imagine St. Francis of Assisi talking about rights.
--Simone Weil
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Lucy0808
.
1195 Fans
.
11:50 PM on 10/20/2011
Just to be clear.
St. Francis of Assisi did not live in the United States of America. He worked within monarchies and totalitarian church governments. There is a difference.
In our country, we have a Constitution that supports civil rights, and not mixing a specific religious sect creed with government policies.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
felliott
.
129 Fans
.
12:41 AM on 10/21/2011
As a cradle Catholic who was also born gay, I've taken a great deal of interest in how the Church has dealt with the question of the protection of rights of gay people. What I've heard is the claim that the Church isn't against gay people; rather, it's for protecting the special status of heterosexual relationships.
As a native of Louisiana, I find the Church's argument indistinguishable from claim made by modern white supremacist leaders that they do not hate blacks or Jews, but they are concerned with protecting the white race.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
Syllogizer
Barely Left of Pobedonostsev .
849 Fans
.
06:06 PM on 10/20/2011
Inspiring? Really? Them? It was the most inspiring religious preacher of all time who warned us that the passion your heroes indulge in is "the most degrading of all the degrading passions". So the only 'inspiring' your heroes can do it what, exactly? Not holy inspiration, that is for sure.
Permalink | Share it .
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
tygr49
.
65 Fans
.
11:05 PM on 10/20/2011
Your pure, unadulterated bigotry is a source of great inspiration to some, I'm sure. Thankfully, your numbers are dwindling.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Lucy0808
.
1195 Fans
.
11:51 PM on 10/20/2011
I agree. It is so interesting that one can make such statements with such flippant self-righteousness and bigotry.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Willie12345
.
343 Fans
.
09:25 AM on 10/21/2011
Well said.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
Scott Amundsen
50, married, Oneonta NY .
224 Fans
.
10:17 AM on 10/21/2011
"Inspiring? Really? Them? It was the most inspiring religious preacher of all time who warned us that the passion your heroes indulge in is "the most degrading of all the degrading passions". So the only 'inspiring' your heroes can do it what, exactly? Not holy inspiration, that is for sure."
To whom exactly are you referring when you say "the most inspiring religious preacher of all time?" Because as sure as I am sitting here, it was not Jesus who said that quote that you apparently attributed to Him. That quote is from the book of Proverbs, believed to have been written by Solomon.
As for Jesus, He never said WORD ONE about homosexuality. Nothing. Nada. And you cannot make the claim that He did without making a liar and a fool of yourself.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Georgia1992
Proud Liberal Democrat .
478 Fans
.
05:42 PM on 10/21/2011
"As for Jesus, He never said WORD ONE about homosexuality. Nothing. Nada."
Fanned and Fav'd.
Permalink | Share it .
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
03:23 PM on 10/23/2011
Perhaps not directly, but I digress on this point:
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:3-9 NIV 1984)
Although the text applies to the topic of divorce, Jesus REAFFIRMED God's Biblical CREATION model for marriage: one husband to one wife. That is the way God designed it to be. That is the model man has destroyed on so many levels anymore.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
Raniee
.
39 Fans
.
07:05 PM on 10/21/2011
If he'd said, you would be on their side?
Permalink | Share it .
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
SKamath
.
298 Fans
.
01:51 PM on 10/24/2011
Great question, and a pretty simple one that exposes the dogma of religion. Morality is based on bronze age authors' edicts. Not on evaluation of why is something moral or immoral.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
Varys
.
388 Fans
.
04:54 PM on 10/20/2011
I, for one, am glad that there are religious leaders willing to oppose the Bible.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
05:45 PM on 10/20/2011
Much of what you call opposing the Bible is more on the order of different understandings of the Bible that conflict with traditional doctrines.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Varys
.
388 Fans
.
06:00 PM on 10/20/2011
There are explicit passages of the Bible that state the punishment for homosexuality should be death. How do you "interpret" that in a positive light? I don't think you can.
To quote an influential person on this subject:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." - Albert Einstein
I couldn't agree more.
Permalink | Share it .
HarleyOpenRoad
.
2169 Fans
.
06:09 PM on 10/20/2011
Einstein was a scientist.
His opinion on religion means no more than anyone else.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
268 Fans
.
01:14 PM on 10/21/2011
Exactly!
In the same way that the opinions of Paul and Jesus mean no more than those of anyone else.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
Syllogizer
Barely Left of Pobedonostsev .
849 Fans
.
06:09 PM on 10/20/2011
Your agreement with him means nothing. For his words carry no weight. Even on topics where he was an expert, Einstein often allowed his obstinacy to get in the way of recognizing the truth, such as when he said "God does not play dice with the world".
Are you aware of the irony? One of the Founding Fathers of Quantum Mechanics denied the implications -- now universally accepted -- of his own work.
If he could be so in error in his own specialty, just think how far off he could be when he got outside it -- as he did in the words you love to quote.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
06:09 PM on 10/20/2011
Offering Einstein as an authority is quite the red herring, but let's skip by that.
Given that you're apparently buying the traditional viewpoint of the scripture you mentioned, please allow me to offer another: the homosexual behavior condemned as punishable by stoning is homosexual rape - a common way for victors in warfare to force the vanquished to bow before them. This has 2 problems - it's clearly unloving and it amounts to the rapist putting himself in a "God" position relative to the loser of the battle. In an iron age, nomadic culture, does stoning not seem an appropriate punishment? And besides, almost anyone with a brain knows God didn't actually say that.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Varys
.
388 Fans
.
06:53 PM on 10/20/2011
Yeah, nice try, but your interpretation is simply not correct. No scholar worth his salt will support what you're trying to argue. It's just a bald-faced attempt to sanitize holy scripture.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
07:32 PM on 10/20/2011
Au contraire - a good many peer-respected scholars come to the same conclusion. Sanitize? They still see stoning. With the sole "agenda" of academic integrity, they want the Bible to be understood rather than turned into a religion.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
Varys
.
388 Fans
.
07:42 PM on 10/20/2011
I've never accused a believer of having a firm grasp of reality, and I'm not going to start now.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
Pale Writer
.
246 Fans
.
02:02 AM on 10/21/2011
And exactly who are these "peer respected" scholars that support this Biblical exegesis you have set forth here? Still curious...
Permalink | Share it .
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
06:58 AM on 10/21/2011
Am I the only person in this discussion who can use a search engine? I've observed a pattern emerging with "orthodox" conservatives. Apparently they go to great lengths to keep their list of "acceptable" authorities short and favorable to them by discounting differing views in various ways. e.g. if they can imagine some agenda on the part of the scholar that differs with their own agenda, conservatives feel free to wave off the differing view as inconsequential. I'm not going to jump thru your hoop - it's too small. It won't take you two minutes on a major search engine to find a couple. Do what you will with that information.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
Pale Writer
.
246 Fans
.
05:59 PM on 10/21/2011
GD - You appeal to authorities that you cannot name and then accuse me of having an "agenda" and "discounting differing views"? No so, my friend. I just expect that if you are going to make claims outside of the theological concensus, that you provide a source. A peer respected, credible source. Instead, you'd rather blame me for asking...ok, When you figure out who these scholars are, let me know...
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
03:46 PM on 10/23/2011
In the case of Sodom & Gomorrah, there might be cause to believe in the idea of rape...but not as per Leviticus:
http://interlinearbible.org/leviticus/20-13.htm
If God didn't actually say any of these things -- either Himself or thru the prophets, why bother using the Bible as any authority figure? To me, that's just playing into the devil's hands.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV 1984
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Cor%206:9-11&version=NIV1984
I like the past tense in this: "11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." We ALL have fallen short of God's mark.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
04:14 PM on 10/23/2011
Homosexual rape in S&G was yet another example - not post conquering in warfare - just to let strangers in town know who's boss.
I don't adhere to any notion that the Bible is "God's Word". Some may grant it authority under their sect of Christianity. I use it at times in conjunction with meditation.
Mostly I tick off conservatives when I tell them that their focus on sin, sin, sin is a waste of time for all but the highly religious who have a problem admitting they're not perfect. I too have noticed the frequent use of past tense - yet another thing that irks conservatives when I call their attention to it.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
ashiraladonai777
.
18 Fans
.
09:23 PM on 10/23/2011
Jesus acknowledged that sin was & remains real--& that it has eternal consequences. So you have a religion of your own design then that doesn't readily acknowledge sin, but somehow I don't doubt that were you a victim of a sin acknowledged as such in the Bible, you'd be the first to complain that someone had wronged you. It all boils down to "Loving God first" & then "Loving others as we love ourselves." If these were put into place first, the rest would follow...but human beings being what they are, sin all the time--& then try to deny its reality--or justify it.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
02:42 PM on 10/24/2011
""but human beings being what they are, sin all the time--& then try to deny its reality--or justify it" - all I can add to that is, "or justify their accusations of others as a means of avoiding confronting their own"
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
KDMac
It's called sarcasm, Genius. .
1154 Fans
.
10:30 AM on 10/21/2011
And there are scientists now who are saying his Theory of Relativity was wrong.
http://www.economist.com/node/21531006
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
eric0063
.
51 Fans
.
11:57 AM on 10/21/2011
Reading the Bible and understanding the Bible aren't necessarily the same thing. The whole law issue seems to be the greatest source of amusement for those who don't understand what it is. The law and it's punishment was for Israel. It encompassed 3 types of laws, moral, civil, and ceremonial.
Ceremonial laws were fulfilled by Jesus, that's why Christians aren't offering animal sacrifices. It's a finished work.
Civil laws existed for Israel as a nation to set them apart from other nations. Since Christians are not Israel, we are not subject to those laws (dietary restrictions, etc.)
Moral requirements, though codified in the law, existed both before and subsequent to the law. That's why murder was wrong from the beginning. That's why homosexuality is wrong today as it was then. These laws still apply to us in that the teach us right from wrong moral behavior. The penalty doesn't apply (which is really good news for all the disobedient children and their parents) but the standards remain.
With all due respect to Einstein, anyone who thinks that living a Christian life exemplifies weakness has never really tried to do it.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
HarleyOpenRoad
.
2169 Fans
.
06:11 PM on 10/20/2011
There are plenty of others.
Scientology, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, to name a few.
Permalink | Share it .
TomMartin
Freedom and equality. .
347 Fans
.
04:49 AM on 10/21/2011
Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses love the Bible, don't oppose it. So don't mix the Scientologist cult with the others.
Permalink | Share it .
HarleyOpenRoad
.
2169 Fans
.
06:06 AM on 10/21/2011
If they truly loved the Bible, they wouldn't have invented their own version.
Permalink | Share it .
TomMartin
Freedom and equality. .
347 Fans
.
06:27 AM on 10/21/2011
We do not have any original manuscripts of the Bible, so people are free to decide what is inspired. The early copies differ from each other in many verses.
Permalink | Share it .
HarleyOpenRoad
.
2169 Fans
.
10:45 AM on 10/21/2011
The NWT Bible has many changes that are not supported by any other translation teams, and the NWT was invented after the religion was established.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines] .
Permalink |Hide replies .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband .
4953 Fans
.
04:47 PM on 10/20/2011
eligion is not found in just one book. And if these people have found spirituality, which is superior to any one religion, so much the better.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
el sistema
.
572 Fans
.
05:04 PM on 10/20/2011
Christians make the best ironies.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Treehuggindirtworshiper
“Dum Spiro, spero- As long as I breathe, I hope. .
116 Fans
.
05:14 PM on 10/20/2011
I have. And I'm currently studying theology. The Bible contradicts its self on a regular basis. Sometimes with in the same sentence. So reading the Bible won't do any good. Now maybe you should study the Bible in a structured theological setting. you might learn something.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
Syllogizer
Barely Left of Pobedonostsev .
849 Fans
.
06:10 PM on 10/20/2011
You are studying theology under worthless teachers if you really believe that it contradicts itself in the same sentence.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Treehuggindirtworshiper
“Dum Spiro, spero- As long as I breathe, I hope. .
116 Fans
.
08:27 PM on 10/20/2011
Let me guess....fundamentalist.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AdamWest1313
Hardcore Agnostic .
1425 Fans
.
05:30 PM on 10/20/2011
....Wow. It's hilarious that you think the bible is the only religion in the world.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
05:43 PM on 10/20/2011
I simply have to laugh at you....and encourage others to do the same.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
06:44 PM on 10/20/2011
No LGBT religion? I guess that means God wants us all to come together (in a non-sexual sense, of course ;) under one church.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
felliott
.
129 Fans
.
12:45 AM on 10/21/2011
The Bible endorses slavery and genocide and the rape of conquered women. Only a morally deficient person wouldn't have to pick and chose what to follow in the Bible.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
phyrro
.
225 Fans
.
02:51 AM on 10/21/2011
So "Everyone is free to live as they choose" as long as they believe in your Bible. That's like telling a prisoner they are free crawl around in the dungeon.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
el sistema
.
572 Fans
.
04:22 PM on 10/20/2011
Ted Haggard is not on the list. I think Ted really inspired all of us to see Christianity through a different lens. It's a joy to be able to sit back and marvel at his life, his values and how he views honesty and integrity.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
06:45 PM on 10/20/2011
I don't think this list was "those inspiring laughter"
Permalink | Share it .
TomMartin
Freedom and equality. .
347 Fans
.
04:52 AM on 10/21/2011
Ted Haggard is no longer a fundamentalist.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
06:41 AM on 10/21/2011
If so, good for him.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
721 Fans
.
10:24 AM on 10/21/2011
LOL
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
voicebodycheck
.
3 Fans
.
03:40 PM on 10/20/2011
Free love blinds the use of moral purpose.
Over zeal blinds good use of application of love.
God says don't sin, so HIS best advice is shoved away...
We say (PAUL'S QUOTE), "be content therewith what ever state".
Our quotes make us accept the unacceptable because if we don't
we pay the popularity poll and get ousted!
Morality to a sinner is a bad word and faith is just another
angle at what makes life impossible to the "UNBELIEVER
"...And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall
wax cold. Matt 24:12
What is faith then, in application it is to believe everything God says, and do it,
And if we don't then ask for forgiveness. THAT IS WHY THE CROSS AND DEATH OF CHRIST. He takes over what we humanly fail. Life is better when you don't weaken... they say!
MOREOVER?...And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called [the place] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: Jhn 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst. Jhn 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bill J4321
.
1013 Fans
.
04:12 PM on 10/20/2011
Never jump into a pile of leaves with a wet sucker.
~ Book of Linus, KING OF THE PEANUTS.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
el sistema
.
572 Fans
.
04:27 PM on 10/20/2011
I think it's better to put down the books of prejudice and open yourself up to humanity instead.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iknowscottyknows
.
153 Fans
.
06:31 PM on 10/20/2011
Humanity has no hate, prejudice, bigotry, murder?
How can you overlook the actions of the non-religious?
Permalink | Share it .
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
el sistema
.
572 Fans
.
08:51 PM on 10/20/2011
The non-religious aren't necessarily using books that promote divisiveness and intolerance.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
There are More Comments on this Thread. Click Here To See them All
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
raker
.
1589 Fans
.
02:35 PM on 10/20/2011
What makes Manji a religious leader? According to her web site her mission is about moral leadership, not religion. A religious leader be someone who's primary occupation is the religion biz, no?
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
03:18 PM on 10/20/2011
Have you read her most recent book? She is a definite leader in reforming Islam.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
02:23 PM on 10/20/2011
The LGBT that succumb to religion confuse me almost as much as those that are Republicans.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
22Keys
.
411 Fans
.
03:09 PM on 10/20/2011
When one has a homophobic family member it usually does not mean that you stop associating with them. You love them despite their fault (which through much conversation you hope to eliminate).
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
03:22 PM on 10/20/2011
Well when someone has an entire family with a long history of homophobia, it's generally acceptable to distance yourself from them.
The religious and the GOP (who are usually one and the same) more than any other party works to limit or eliminate completely the rights and privileges of anyone who doesn't believe like they do. Women, then blacks, then the LGBT community, then atheists (with a TON of other groups scattered between) have consistently had to fight for equal rights and representation from the religious and/or Republicans.
Religious republican conservatives are the biggest threat to human rights in the US.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
22Keys
.
411 Fans
.
03:40 PM on 10/20/2011
Religion is a fundamental human phenomenon. There is nothing intrinsically evil, homophobic, violent, racist, sexist, etc. about it. While some ugly manifestations of faith have certainly presented themselves throughout history, these bigoted ideas exist apart from religion. Having been raised in S. California, I had the pleasure of witnessing many secular people who fit all of the above categories as well. Let's not paint with too broad a brush here, and let's not turn this into a GOP vs. Dem thing.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
03:48 PM on 10/20/2011
If you honestly think that christianity is not intrinsically or inherently homophobic, racist, or sexist then you have never studied christianity.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
22Keys
.
411 Fans
.
04:17 PM on 10/20/2011
Do I really need to give a lecture about reading ancient texts in context? Christian origins was a key focus of my undergraduate study at U.C.L.A. If you would like, I would be more than willing to correspond further about these topics. However, I think it is important to remember that a lot of people have a spiritual drive, and instead of telling them to suppress that drive, we should make sure we do our housecleaning with the religions available to us (eliminating: racism, homophobia, sexism, etc).
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
04:24 PM on 10/20/2011
I also studied the bible EXTENSIVELY while studying for the seminary. We can play all the word games we want, but for the last few thousand years the christian religion (to name one) has had as part of its canon racism, sexism, and homophobia. Let's not even get into islam or any of the other Abrahamic religions.
I'm not talking about people repressing their spirituality. I'm just always shocked at people who want to join an organization that has made an active point of repressing or harming them. I'd be just as amazed at a black man that wanted to join the KKK.
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
22Keys
.
411 Fans
.
04:42 PM on 10/20/2011
Many organizations that started out as bigoted, no longer are. Should I avoid watching the MLB because at one time they excluded blacks? No they have corrected their behavior. love the United States and I believe it to be a beautiful country. That does not mean that I am not ashamed of the sexism, racism, slavery, and all other manner of injustices that were sanctioned by the state at some time or another. I am not ignoring or attempting to forget the struggles of those before me. That does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water. Let's not ignore some of the more positive things the church seems to be doing (like pentecostalism in Latin America crushing sexist machismo). I think that we should move forward and be proud of what we are slowly becoming, a more tolerant society. I think we should welcome the church changing their ways. In 100 years there will not be hardly a church left that preaches against homosexuality.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
05:13 PM on 10/20/2011
I agree, and you're right that in 100 years people will look on the homophobes of our generation in the same way we look on the racists of 100 years ago.
But I'm STILL amazed that anyone would want to be a part of a group that hates them so much.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
Syllogizer
Barely Left of Pobedonostsev .
849 Fans
.
06:18 PM on 10/20/2011
I don't believe you when you claim this extensive study. No one should believe you. Why? Because if you had really STUDIED it, you would have known better than to make the rash generalization you made. But you made it anyway. This proves beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that what you did and called 'study' was no such thing.
How did you miss it? The same Bible that some interpreted as endorsing slavery inspired many to fight slavery, even to the extreme that John Brown went to. Do you really expect us to believe that your "extensive study" proved that the former were correct and the latter wrong?
Don't expect it, because we won't.
Then there is the way you completely missed what it was that REALLY pushed slavery over the edge and out of the civilized, modern social order: it was economic change. It no longer makes economic sense to rely on slavery for our labor supply, the (relatively) free labor market does MUCH better.
Did you really not know at all? The reason so many poor whites in the Northern States supported the war was NOT love of the downtrodden slaves, it was the economic fact that the mere existence of slavery was depressing their wages. The South was desperate to export their "peculiar institution" to every territory, because it was strangling their economy at home; but the export strangled the labor market for free men, which is why they fought back.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
07:59 PM on 10/20/2011
I'm sure it's very comfortable for you to believe that. But I studied the bible with the heart and spirit of someone who was in love with god, in love with the church, and in love with the bible. I studied it with the love of someone who wanted nothing more than to learn everything there was to learn about it so that I could share it with others.
It was through years and years of deep, intense study of not just the bible but of tons of supporting material that I started to realize just how horrible of a book it is. I realized that I believed in a loving, caring god - and that the god of the bible was nothing of the sort.
To quote Twain, it ain't the parts of the bible I don't understand that disturb me. It's the parts that I do.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
03:20 PM on 10/20/2011
We shouldn't. Those of us who are religious (in my case, Christian), simply refuse to deny that part of ourselves that is spiritual simply because others want us to.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
03:29 PM on 10/20/2011
It's not about denying the spiritual side of you. I'm amazed that any member of the LGBT community would associate themselves with the two most homophobic groups in America, both of which have (and still do) actively work to limit or eliminate the rights of the LGBT community.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
03:36 PM on 10/20/2011
What groups are those? The Christian church that I currently belong to actually advocates quite strongly for full inclusion of LGBT people in all aspects of society.
The bottom line is this, I'm not willing to allow fallable human beings to deny me a relationship with Christ---a relationship that I believe we both (Christ and I) want. I think to do so is quite stupid.
When did you relinquish your right to determine your faith to others? Do you do that with all aspect of your life or just this one?
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
03:40 PM on 10/20/2011
That's good for your church, but it is FAR from the norm. If your church allows gay marriage, fights for gay rights, accepts that homosexuality is not a sin, and is comfortable with things like transgenderism, etc then great.
But you'd have to be willingly blind to not see that the church and the Republican party is CONSTANTLY at the forefront of any anti-LGBT movement. It's good your church is an exception - but it's still an exception.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
05:33 PM on 10/20/2011
I don't disagree with you that my church is far from the norm within Christiandom (and, incidentally, they do all of the above).
Having said that, I still think that if one permits another person to dictate the terms of their relationship with their creator, they are making a huge mistake.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast .
819 Fans
.
05:50 PM on 10/20/2011
Change for the better often starts with being exceptional. Why Coloradem would choose to stay with something exceptionally good seems like a no-brainer to me. It's the hope (and wave) of the future.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
dmgoss
Sapere Aude .
245 Fans
.
03:48 PM on 10/20/2011
While I agree, I think it's more a case of institutional affiliation, rather than basic spirituality, which leads one to ask whether a church or social group that gathers around religious beliefs is actually necessary for anything other than instruction or community? Obviously, one's beliefs grow and become more nuanced from contact with like minded others, but if the members of that group hate you for an essential part of your person, why stay? Or continue to subscribe to the dogma that is likely the source of that hate?
I'm not a religious person, but I am a social one, and I understand the need for common cause and contact. But I also understand the cruelty and rejection any group is capable of. In this case, Martin Luther's ultimate goal of removing the church and its representatives as the necessary administrators of God's will has the feature of allowing the individual to pursue a relationship with their spirituality through a solitary reading of the bible.
Of course, Weber's response, that churches ultimately serve as communal entities that bind neighbors into a group identity necessary to social harmony, seems to trump the idea that mere belief is even the main issue when it comes to the power churches have over a population. Check how well Muslims are currently mainstreaming into American society for a great example of this.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
03:58 PM on 10/20/2011
I see what you are saying and, to an extent, agree with you. I would certainly not stay with any group of people who hated me (or anyone else, for that matter) given that the Christ I follow instructs us to, "Love your neighbor as yourself". Hate is contrary to his command.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
05:47 PM on 10/20/2011
"Having said that, I still think that if one permits another person to dictate the terms of their relationship with their creator, they are making a huge mistake.”"
I agree 100%. Which is why I'm always so amazed when anyone from the LGBT succumbs to religion or Republicanism.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
06:36 PM on 10/20/2011
You lost me. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that LGBT people should not engage in any religion because some within religious communites claim that God/Allah/S-he who we call by many names doesn't like them. In other words, we should listen to those people (and those within the LGBT community who tell us that we don't need to engage in religious activities) and accept that we are not worthy of God's love?
You really shouldn't be surprised (or amazed) by the diversity or independent mindedness of those of us who are gay.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
08:02 PM on 10/20/2011
You keep saying that I've said the LGBT community SHOULDN'T be part of religion or a religious group. I've never said that. I've said that I'm SURPRISED they are. I don't think blacks shouldn't join the KKK. I'd just be surprised at the ones who wanted to.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
10:21 AM on 10/21/2011
So now you're equating Methodist, members of the the United Church of Christ, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, etc.with the KKK? Well, given that those who killed Matthew Shepard were American, why would any gay person stay in America?
The bottom line is this: You have chosen to replace one bigotry (against gay people) with another (against religious people). Well, pick your poison, I guess.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
11:37 AM on 10/21/2011
But I'll tell you what - I'll continue supporting the LGBT community against unfair legislation and religious persecution.
You keep defending the church.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
12:41 PM on 10/21/2011
I'll defend both against real enemies instead of looking for enemies where they don't exist.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
12:51 PM on 10/21/2011
Considering the great lengths you've gone through to make me an 'enemy' in this thread, I find that that statement incredibly ironic.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
12:58 PM on 10/21/2011
Also, if you think the church hasn't been an enemy of the LGBT community you definitely need to educate yourself both on LGBT history and the bible. To deny it is like saying that the South was never an enemy of black people.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
01:29 PM on 10/21/2011
Actually saying "the South" was an enemy to black people is exactly as stupid as saying "the Church" is the enemy of gay people.
Black people were a part of the south, so your statement implies that black people were enemies of themselves. Were there elements of "the South" that treated black people horribly? Of course. Are there element of "the Church" that treat gays and lesbians horribly? Of course. "The South" is not a monolith though and neither is "the Church" and that is the fallacy of your argument.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
02:22 PM on 10/21/2011
Okay, I see where the issue is. You're having trouble grasping concepts if the details aren't nitpicked. You're not understanding a concept because we're not throwing out specific names, scenarios, and situations. So since you're just not getting it, I'll explain a little deeper:
Christianity (as one example) has consistently and repeatedly demonized and criminalized homosexuality. Even in today's current news if you look at any anti-LGBT legislation within the US you'll find it's virtually 100% of time either headed, funded, or supported by religious organizations. Sometimes they're christian. Sometimes they're not. What they all have in common is that they are RELIGIOUS-BASED and their objections are that homosexuality is immoral or unequal because of their RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.
Your church is an exception. WONDERFUL. But at the head of everything that eliminates or limits LGBT equality in this nation is one religious organization or another.
That's fine if you disagree. It's great that the members of the LGBT community who have been subjected to religious discrimination get to be told how wrong they are by their fellow LGBT members.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
02:52 PM on 10/21/2011
No I really don't think you see where the issue is at all. The issue is simply this: You are attempting to apply blanket condemnations to people of faith based on the the worst actions by some members of the faith community. This is not unlike those bigotted members of the faith communities who attempt to categorize all members of the LGBT community based on the actions of "go-go boys dancing on floats at gay pride parades".
While it may be much simpler in the short run to try to live life sticking labels on people and them placing them into little boxes while coding them "good" or "bad", you are doing yourself and the LGBT community an extreme disservice in doing so.
Remember, Martin Luther King was a devout Christian and it was his faith that led him to do the great things that he did, yet in your little "box" you would put him in the "bad" category.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
04:01 PM on 10/21/2011
I'm not attempting to box anyone into a specific category. I'm also not basing my opinion on religion by the actions of only its worst members. I'm simply showing how things ARE, not how I THINK they are. I didn't decide to go on some vendetta against the church and blame them for all the evils in the world. What I did was notice a continuing and common trend in anti-LGBT movements.
Look at things like DADT, DOMA, the fight against marriage equality, the political arguments against equality for the LGBT community, etc, etc, etc, etc. This is historic, this is researchable, this is easy to prove if you just go do your homework.
Are you honestly telling me that in the fight for gay rights you're NOT fighting against religious bigotry? That you're NOT fighting against christian ideals? That you're NOT confronted with religious groups that use their religion as justification to limit rights for the LGBT community?
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
05:00 PM on 10/21/2011
I'm telling you that I am fighting against anti-gay bigotry, no matter the source...tradition, religion, misogeny and the "ick" factor to name a few. I am also fighting anti-Christian bigotry, no matter the source. I am not fighting Christian ideals at all....on the contrary, Chistian ideals were set by Christ very clearly in Mark: "Love your neighbor as yourself"....no exceptions....that is the ideal that I am fighting for.
As to DADT, DOMA, ENDA and the rest of the alphabet soup of gay rights (and discrimination) laws, I've been on the front line of these battles for the better part of the past 40 years and the opposition has had a strong base in the faith community. There are a significant number of religious leaders and people in the pews who are fighting on the other side of the issue as well. For every Pat Robertson there is a Rob Bell; for every Jerry Falwell there is a Mel White.
This isn't and either/or issue. It isn't one when Fred Phelps declares it so and it isn't one when you declare it so. And those of us who are Christian didn't "succumb" homosexuality any more than those of us who are gay "succumbed" to religion.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
05:22 PM on 10/21/2011
I agree that there are religious members fighting for LGBT rights. But those are new, they're the exception, and they're having to fight against their fellow religious members.
It's a good thing it's happening. It's a good thing the church is opening up. It's a good thing they're finally becoming accepting of homosexuality. But the very fact that it IS a fight and that they ARE the minority means that religion is still more anti-homosexuality than pro-homosexuality.
I never said you were fighting christian ideals. Most christians don't follow christian ideals. I said you were fighting religion. Big huge difference. One of homosexuality's biggest hurdle is gaining universal acceptance in the religious community. Just look at countries that have very low religious populations and you can see the inverse relationship of religion and acceptance of homosexuality.
Yes of COURSE there are examples of people and churches fighting for gay rights. There always has been and there always will be people who can see past the bigotry. But if you can't use a few bad examples as an indication of the whole, you can't use a few good ones either.
Most religions have always fought against LGBT rights. The Abrahamic religions most notably. You can't in all honesty say that religion as a whole is supportive of the LGBT community and LGBT rights.
Well you can say it I suppose - you can even try to convince others of it, but then you'd have to change your name to Colorarepub.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
el sistema
.
572 Fans
.
04:00 PM on 10/20/2011
Superstition isn't prejudice.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
04:04 PM on 10/20/2011
But the superstitious and religious usually are. And christianity as a whole is one of the most homophobic groups in the US. Religion as a whole is one of the most homophobic in the world.
Permalink | Share it .
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
el sistema
.
572 Fans
.
04:16 PM on 10/20/2011
They also have the most sects. So many denominations within Christianity I am sure they could find one or two sects they'd enjoy.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
Syllogizer
Barely Left of Pobedonostsev .
849 Fans
.
06:19 PM on 10/20/2011
You are showing the really deep prejudice yourself when you claim " the superstitious and religious usually are [prejudiced?]".
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard McRae
I fan awesome people. .
531 Fans
.
08:00 PM on 10/20/2011
Nah, I'm speaking from countless examples and experience throughout history. If you look at every anti-LGBT movement or legislation it is invariable fronted by a religious group.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
felliott
.
129 Fans
.
12:47 AM on 10/21/2011
Superstition is prejudice compounded with cowardice and stupidity.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
10:24 AM on 10/21/2011
Actually prejudice, be it against gay people or religous people, is cowardice coupled with stupidity.
Permalink | Share it .
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
felliott
.
129 Fans
.
11:49 AM on 10/21/2011
Is all religion superstition?
Permalink | Share it .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Coloradem
Christian, Gay, Democrat .
477 Fans
.
12:39 PM on 10/21/2011
Depends on who you ask. So in the most broad sense, yes, every religion is considered supersitition by some people.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
photo
eric0063
.
51 Fans
.
02:22 PM on 10/20/2011
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3)
Permalink | Share it .
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Grada3784
Dogmatic Dictators, believers or not, not welcome .
673 Fans
.
03:32 PM on 10/20/2011
For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness,
This is something new? Seems like the last days Timothy was talking about have been forever.
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bill J4321
.
1013 Fans
.
04:14 PM on 10/20/2011
Next time you talk to him, can you ask him to push up the rapture date so I can finally get some peace and quiet down here.
Permalink | Share it .
photo
eric0063
.
51 Fans
.
04:38 PM on 10/20/2011
Well, according to the prophecies, it'll probably get noisier, not quieter, after that event. How bout a nice set of ear plugs?
Permalink | Share it .
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
spinner
No comments:
Post a Comment