Orthodox Jews Open Gay Dialogue
8.9.10 : Advocate.com
By Julie Bolcer
A large group of Orthodox Jewish leaders published a statement last month calling for gay members of their community to be treated with “dignity and respect.”
According to the Guardian, the statement, published on July 22, has garnered 170 signatories from Orthodox Jewish communities in the United States and Israel. While it does not call for a change in the religious law that opposes homosexuality, it does make progress by recognizing the right of gay people to reject efforts to change them, and allowing religious communities to determine their own policies on homosexuality.
Part of the statement says, “All human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect … Embarrassing, harassing or demeaning someone with a homosexual orientation or same-sex attraction is a violation of Torah prohibitions that embody the deepest values of Judaism.”
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Gay Marriage and ‘Religious Freedom’
Opinion
By Jay Michaelson
Published August 18, 2010, issue of August 27, 2010.
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The historic decision striking down California’s Proposition 8 affirms what many of us in the movement for GLBT equality have known all along: The fight over gay marriage is really a battle about whether we want religion to dictate our laws.
Take away all the pseudo-sociology, the unsubstantiated (and demonstrably false) claims about how children do better when raised by mixed-gender couples and the understandable fear of change. What’s left over, Judge Vaughn Walker observed in Perry v. Schwarzenegger, is a religiously motivated feeling that homosexuality is immoral. This is why Prop. 8 did not even pass the lenient “rational basis” standard of review — because religious animus is not a rational basis for making law.
Related ◾A Tale of Two Cases: Why a Christian Club Matters More Than a Desert Cross
◾Orthodox Look at Gay Nups Proposal
◾The Apartheid of Love
◾Prop 8 and the Right To Love
◾After Jewish Battle, Prop. 8 Passes
◾Orthodox Join Fight Against Gay Nuptials
In other words, this debate is not about families, child welfare or any other secular value. Instead, same-sex marriage is a battleground in the much larger debates about the proper relationship between religion and state.
No wonder, then, that the majority of American Jews have shown support for gay rights. It’s not necessarily that our community is so much more enlightened or tolerant than others; it’s that we know religious coercion when we see it.
The great exception to this near-consensus among American Jews is the Orthodox community. Indeed, in responding to the ruling in Perry, the Orthodox Union stated that it was “disappointed.” Why? Not merely because of its “religious values” — which, the O.U. was quick to claim, “we do not seek to impose on anyone.” Rather, the O.U. said, it is upset because the decision threatens “the fundamental civil right of religious freedom.”
Really? What religious freedom is threatened by my ability to marry my partner? The freedom to control my life?
Well, no, according to the O.U. What, then? They haven’t really said, preferring to issue vague, ominous pronouncements: “Already, in states with same-sex civil unions and similar laws, religious institutions, including churches, social service providers and youth groups have been penalized by authorities for their beliefs,” the O.U. stated.
Penalized how? The O.U. doesn’t say.
Surely, vague threats such as these lead some people to believe the worst. Will yeshivas be compelled to teach about David and Jonathan’s same-sex marriage (1 Samuel 18:21) alongside Abraham, Sarah and Hagar’s polygamous one? No — no one is suggesting that. Will Orthodox rabbis be forced to perform gay weddings? Even the O.U.’s public policy director, Nathan Diament, has conceded: “you can’t have a basic understanding of the First Amendment and think that.”
So what kind of “penalty” are we talking about?
Maybe the answer is financial. Orthodox yeshivas, charities and communal institutions now receive millions of dollars from the federal government for faith-based initiatives, educational aid and other programs. These institutions might well be “penalized” for not recognizing the eligibility of same-sex spouses of their employees for benefits, just like school groups at public universities are required adhere to basic nondiscrimination rules.
Of course, they could just forego the cash if they don’t like the strings attached. No cash, no problem: Religious institutions are almost always exempted from non-discrimination rules, unless they want benefits from the government. Then again, it is a lot of cash.
Or maybe there’s another reason. Surely, notwithstanding the O.U.’s rhetoric, the real issue here is what kind of America we want to live in. Gay rights, women’s rights, abortion rights — these are symbols of a much larger, much older conflict about the limits of intertwining church and state, about how much we want religious values to inform civil law.
And in that struggle, our Orthodox brothers’ anti-separationism is misguided. Since the days of George Washington’s letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, American Jews have thrived precisely because our country keeps religion and state apart. No doubt this is why the O.U. is an outlier in the Jewish community: because most of us understand that religious minorities benefit from more separation, not less. Same-sex marriage doesn’t curtail religious liberty; it protects it, by limiting the unholy shatnez of church and state.
Whatever our religious values, the existence of a secular public space — including same-sex marriage, the right to control one’s own body and, perhaps one day, equality of the sexes — does not intrude upon the rights of minority religions such as ours. On the contrary, it strengthens them.
Jay Michaelson is founder of Nehirim: GLBT Jewish Culture & Spirituality and the author of a forthcoming book on the religious case for gay rights. He writes “The Polymath” column for the Forward and was recently a visiting assistant professor of law and religion at Boston University School of Law.
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+10
Aurora 's avatar
Aurora · 165 weeks ago
I don't think freedom of religion should not extend to denying civil liberties or allow discrimination. But that is, in the current climate, a radical idea that many Americans don't share.
If you have some religious objection to gay marriage- the you should advocate for a pure separation- civil marriages done by government clerks and open to all, religious ceremonies controlled by religious officials, but having no legal standing. Unfortunately I think we are far away from the true seperation of Church and State that would allow this to happen.
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2 replies · active 165 weeks ago
-5
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
But the state has the right to regulate marriage. The state regulates everything --at the behest of the political left--so why not marriage. The state has an overriding interest in marriage since the marital unit is the basic societal building block. If one is underage--a standard set forth by the government--no marriage. If you wish to marry a close relative--no marriage. The state requires a marital unit to be a man and a woman--not because they are religious bigots but because marriage must be a union of a male and a female to be a marriage. Further, government historically regulates sexual behavior--many of these laws in most states have been dropped but marriage remains as a context for sexual relations officially sanctioned by the state.
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-6
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
Further--all laws are "discriminations." To take a stand against discrimination is to take a stand against almost all law. A civil liberty is not withheld to any individual--but if individuals wish to opt out--it is fine for them to opt out. Many people choose not to vote and they do not vote because they do not get to vote for the persons they wish or the type of society they wish--fine--they should not vote. If I was attracted to men--I surely would not wish to marry a woman. Fine. But to punish all of society because I wanted to opt out makes no sense. A lesbian prefers a woman--each has the option to marry a man but prefers another woman--they therefore agree to prefer to not be married. Fine--it is a choice in a free society.
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+4
Norm's avatar
Norm · 165 weeks ago
While I believe you may overstate some aspects of your case, I am writing only because you are basically right and don't deserve the obnoxious comments above.
Any Jews who believe that bring government close to religion in America will have long-run benefits for Jews are simply wrong. And any who think the government should be regulzating who can marry are not merely incorrect, but definitely need to repent.
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+3
greggersh's avatar - Go to profile
greggersh · 165 weeks ago
How is 1 Samuel 18:21 a reference to David and Jonathan's homosexual relationship? It says:
"And Saul said: 'I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him.' Wherefore Saul said to David: 'Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law through the one of the twain."
referring to David's marriage to Saul's daughter Michal. Did you mean the beginning of that chapter?
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+1
Shalom in NJ's avatar
Shalom in NJ · 165 weeks ago
To Barry,
Surely you know that the Jewish belief is that G-d gave us the Written and Oral Torah, and that no Traditional Jews have ever believed that all of the laws are contained in the Written Torah. While your belief in Judaism is your business, please don't misrepresent our beliefs with your make believe version of what we must defend. As you must know, the Written Torah doesn't tell us what the 'totafot' are that we must use daily, or what kosher slaughter is, or what it means to 'shamor' or 'zachor' the Shabbat. You are certainly free to believe or not, but lets not pretend, shall we?
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0
Andy Marcus's avatar
Andy Marcus · 130 weeks ago
The horrible antisemitic comments of so called "rabbi" Tony Jutner should be deleted from this site.
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0
Rabbi Tony Jutner's avatar
Rabbi Tony Jutner · 164 weeks ago
I fully support Jay Michelson and NewJudaism fully supports gay marriage. I think that Orthodox "rabbis" should be forced to perform gay marriages or be found guilty of antidiscrimination statues
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4 replies · active 163 weeks ago
0
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 164 weeks ago
It is beyond galling that you can publicly condemn Rabbis and I really wonder what part of chillul Hashem do you fail to grasp? Decency demands you refrain from writing anything under the title of "rabbi"--again. How and why do you persist--you are called out and decried every time and yet you keep trying. Why? Do you have anything positive to say ever?
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0
Rabbi Tony Jutner's avatar
Rabbi Tony Jutner · 164 weeks ago
I have everything positive to say about NewJudaism, which demands social justice, economic justice, and the rights of endogenous peoples, especially the Palestinians, to their lands. I have nothing positive to say about fossilized Judaism, which is bringing the opprobrium of the world upon us for our stubborn desire to have a state. Many influential Jews in principle agree with my principles, such as Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, Tony Kushner, and many many others, perhaps including Mr Michaelson
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0
Joseph dagan 's avatar
Joseph dagan · 163 weeks ago
I just couldn’t , not responding to this unbelievable croup about we don’t have to have a country you mean you don’t believe that we are back to the land that we where forced to leave some years ago ?? than can you explain to me why it is necessary for the so called Palestinian to create a country they never had in the first place ? you got history wrong my friend you luck king David didn’t lesson to you Etc Etc ho yes that is why the Hebrew cross the sea unharmed or that is just a fake story? Please go to sleep and don’t tell us your bad dreams who appointed you rabbi ?if there is no israel than you can't be a jew ask why ? becouse your a fake a simple as that .may be you can find your answer on the internet
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0
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 163 weeks ago
So you want a contest concerning who is a fossil and who is not? What kind of gall is this? To say that Orthodox Judaism and a growing number of BT's is growing exponentially would not only be accurate--it is quite a statement concerning what is fossilized. The fact that antisemites have a place in the world is a sickening reminder of the work the Jewish people have to do. Apostate Jews are truly fossils--Elul is here, Yom Kippur is coming--you still have a chance Mr. Jutner.
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-1
Miriam's avatar
Miriam · 165 weeks ago
What is embarassing is the President of the United States, Barack Obama, said privately and publicly that he doesn't support marriage between a man and a woman. I am offended and am waiting for an apology and a public retraction from the most powerful man on the planet. Based on his statements, I think he is homophobic and fearful of marriage between two men. Thank you.
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1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
-2
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
It sems these two Miriams, writing under the same name at the same moment--might want to get together since their opinions are so opposite.
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-2
's avatar - Go to profile
Lane אליעזר Silberstein · 164 weeks ago
Tell it like it is, akhi, Jay Mike! This is why I used you in my thesis.
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-6
Miriam's avatar
Miriam · 165 weeks ago
This issue is only about 6 million American citizens voting democratically. What is a democracy and a fair open election mean when one old white man strikes down a proposition. What is next? A judge outlawing synagogues because they won't perform marriages between a jew and a muslim man?
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1 reply · active 165 weeks ago
+5
Kep's avatar
Kep · 165 weeks ago
It has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. In a democracy, the majority can't take away the rights of the minority.
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-7
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
Jay M's premise here is totally wrong--a broad coalition brought Prop 8 to victory and the core of the black community, for example, is deeply offended by the use of gay marriage as a so-called "civil right." To ignore the base-line support for traditional marriage and by concocting a "religious" defense spins the issue away from the merits and towards the terms created by this really dopey Jude Walker who is demanding to be overturned and have his ears boxed. This is a runaway judge--the kind of incompetence that has created such disgust in the minds of Americans. And yet, even on Jay M's terms--he is really wrong since the force of law will not stop short at the porch of religious believers. This is why this kind of advocacy must be opposed where one gay man in a black robe can overturn the will of millions of people.
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5 replies · active 101 weeks ago
+4
Barry 's avatar
Barry · 165 weeks ago
Where does it say in the torah a woman can't lie with another woman (marriage or sex)? Or are you rewriting the torah like Americans rewrite their constitution?
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-5
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
No conservative wishes to re-write anything--this is the exclusive desire of the political Left. It is among the Noachide laws that posits against homosexual relations and the society which makes gives marital rights to homosexuals is "corrupt" according to our sources. The are verses in Leviticus and there is discussion of women in the Talmud. So ask a Rabbi with a kosher ordination (that is an Orthodox Rabbi) ask ask him for an opinion regarding homosexual marriage. Not one will say yes. It is unanimous and nothing has ever changed on this subject. So who is re-writing?
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+1
Barry S.'s avatar
Barry S. · 165 weeks ago
The noachide laws are not in torah. I ask you again, where does it say in the torah that a woman can't lie with another woman like a man? If it doesn't say anything about a woman, why are you taking what the torah says about a man and relate it to a woman. That is rewriting the Torah and is prohibited by Jews. In the Torah, there are laws specifically for men and women and homosexuality for woman is not prohibited anywhere in the Torah.
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+1
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
I cannot understand your point here, Barry? Are you saying homosexuality is not a problem according to our Torah?
From the Chabad.org website: Lesbian relations are forbidden. This is "the conduct of Egypt" which we were warned against, as [Leviticus 18:3] states: "Do not follow the conduct of Egypt." Our Sages said:22 What would they do? A man would marry a man, a woman would marry a woman, and a woman would marry two men.
Although this conduct is forbidden,23 lashes are not given for it, for it is not a specific prohibition24 and there is no intercourse at all. Therefore such women are not forbidden to marry into the priesthood as zonot, nor does a woman become prohibited to her husband because of this,25 for this is not considered harlotry. It is, however, appropriate to give them stripes for rebellious conduct26 because they performed a transgression.
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0
Wayne's avatar
Wayne · 101 weeks ago
David, regarding your quote on "the conduct of Egypt." Our Sages said: A man would marry a man, a woman would marry a woman, and a woman would marry two men.
Most interesting! This is historical evidence that the traditional definition of marriage did indeed include same-sex marriage.
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-9
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
A marriage is the union of a man and a woman--yes, Judaism has put forward the standard but it can be seen plainly by secular people as well since there are things only a father can teach a child and a mother can do for a child that are gender specific. We are as individuals both male and female and we marry iin an attempt to resolve and blend these opposing tendencies. The fact that gay relationships imitate normative ones in "dominant" and "submissive" roles is a shallow imitation of the real thing. Black Americans are offended at the "civil rights" suggestion, secular people and yes,many gay people as well do not wish to disturb baseline societal norms.
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-12
davidf15x's avatar
davidf15x · 165 weeks ago
This is a truly dreadful bit of opinion writing. It is all too easy to convulse over the ruling put together by Judge Walker since it is so irrational and so biased. It is the kind of ruling which demands to be overturned on its face. The very fact that America is both very friendly and hospitable to gay Americans and also very, very reluctant to trash the traditional definition of a marriage is completely understandable. Further, the fact that religious Americans and secular Americans are united in opposing gay marriage is also easy to understand. Gay marriage is not wrong because it is simply immoral, gay marriage is wrong because it ignores the prime attribute of gender in our society. To state, as Judge Walker stated, that marriage has always been about animus to gay people reads like a sick joke. The belief that people like Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Obama, all Republicans, all Americans who have lived before 1970--etc--are all "bigots"--is the most juvenile kind of name-calling and could easily constitute cause for Walker to be thrown out of the bar. The people have spoken is dozens of states--marriage must be protected.
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Read more: http://forward.com/articles/130175/gay-marriage-and-religious-freedom/#ixzz2iJAe2aLQ
Nehirim GLBT Jewish Culture and Spirituality
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Upcoming Retreats
October 25, 2013
Queer Shabbaton New York 2013 & Student Leadership Conference
JCC in NYC
February 14, 2014
Queer Jewish Student Retreat 2014
Boston, MA
March 7, 2014
Nehirim East Gathering
Falls Village, CT
August 8, 2014
Women’s Retreat 2014
Falls Village, CT
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Upcoming Programs
November 5, 2013
Ma’agal: The Nehirim Women’s Circle — November 2013
New York, NY
December 3, 2013
Ma’agal: The Nehirim Women’s Circle — December 2013
New York, NY
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Nehirim in the News
Pride Interview: Alyssa Finn and Nehirim
Jul 9, 2013 | Repair the World
Panel urges greater acceptance of LGBTs through word and deed
May 24, 2013 | Jewish Press of Tampa
Jay Michaelson: Homophobia | The Quest of Life
May 10, 2013 | Quest of Life
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Helping to integrate gay, Jewish identities
11.3.10 : New Jersey Jewish News
Michael Hopkins, former JCC director, heads retreat programs – more at:
http://njjewishnews.com/article/metrowest/helping-to-integrate-gay-jewish-identities
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October 25, 2013
Queer Shabbaton New York 2013 & Student Leadership Conference
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February 14, 2014
Queer Jewish Student Retreat 2014
Boston, MA
March 7, 2014
Nehirim East Gathering
Falls Village, CT
August 8, 2014
Women’s Retreat 2014
Falls Village, CT
more
Upcoming Programs
November 5, 2013
Ma’agal: The Nehirim Women’s Circle — November 2013
New York, NY
December 3, 2013
Ma’agal: The Nehirim Women’s Circle — December 2013
New York, NY
more
Nehirim in the News
Pride Interview: Alyssa Finn and Nehirim
Jul 9, 2013 | Repair the World
Panel urges greater acceptance of LGBTs through word and deed
May 24, 2013 | Jewish Press of Tampa
Jay Michaelson: Homophobia | The Quest of Life
May 10, 2013 | Quest of Life
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111 Reasons to Keep the Faith
11.16.10 : Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation Blog
This article was originally published in the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation Blog.
The postcards for the fourth annual Queer Shabbaton New York promised big: We boasted Jewish and LGBT diversity, a celebration of secular and religious practices, and cutting edge Jewish thought, culture and community.
With a wealth of teachers, scholars, Rabbis, lay leaders, and community organizers, though, this all seemed attainable. We enlisted presenters like Dr. Warren Hoffman, author of The Passing Game: Queering Jewish American Culture; Audrey Beth Stein, author of Map; Jay Michaelson, Nehirim founder; and Rabbi Steve Greenberg, author of Wrestling with God and Men: Homosexuality in the Jewish Tradition.
But what nags at the heart and mind of the retreat director—in this case, me—is always the same: Who will come? What will we really have to offer?
And these particular questions, I think, are actually part of the struggle of being Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgendered (LGBT) in 21st Century America. These questions echo years of solitude in which we wonder, Am I the only one? Who will stand with me? And what will we really have to offer?
For LGBT people, these doubts reflect the experience of living in a society that insists we do not count or, worse yet, that we should not exist at all. Questions like these reveal what it is to survive being intentionally marginalized, discounted and erased from history. For LGBT Jews, there is also that old adage that many of us heard growing up—You can always walk into any synagogue—that we are still trying to fight for, reclaim or forget.
It is no wonder, then, that acceptance, celebration, support and community for LGBT people can never be taken for granted—not even as an insider, not even as the retreat director.
But then 111 people show up.
We show up to learn about topics like LGBT Jewish history, building Jewish LGBT families and community building. We show up to engage in Torah study, to write about our own LGBT identities and to consider a call to action for LGBT homeless youth. Those of us who show up, we are of every generation, every Jewish practice and every stream and strand of LGBT life.And by showing up, we offer our act of resistance. We answer decade upon decade of Who Will Come and What Will We Really Offer; we insist in our collective faith in one another.
When the young LGBT students showed up, they show their hope and faith that it gets better. When the attendee from Kansas tells me that she traveled to Queer Shabbaton New York because it’s the closest that she can get to LGBT Jewish culture, she makes her own journey of faith. And when those who have been closeted finally see the smiling faces of other LGBT Jews, their prayers of faith are at long last reflected back to them.
Nothing is a Utopia, of course. I could write about how some participants were uncomfortable with the word Queer, itself, and how others feel that it is the only identity that applies; I could write about how we had a printing snafu with our registration packets; I could even write about how I avoided my own personal and professional nightmare, all wrapped up in almost serving a carafe of less than fresh Half and Half to a people already plagued with stomach tsuris.
But really, I’d rather say this: I am honored and proud to be a part of a community built on faith—because what it means is that we will keep showing up. This last Queer Shabbaton actually converted me to my own suspicions: I believe that we will continue to practice faith together. Beyond our differences, beyond our various beliefs and beyond even my own worries ofWho Will Come, we LGBT Jews of Nehirim will go on binding our hearts up with one another because that is the single strongest action of faith.
The rest, as they say, is in the details: During Halloween weekend, 2010, over 100 LGBT Jews, partners and allies attended the fourth annual Queer Shabbaton New York, hosted by Nehirim: GLBT Jewish Culture and Spirituality. The event was co-sponsored by Congregation Beth Simchat Torah and The JCC in Manhattan, with generous support provided by the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation. The weekend was, by all accounts, a tremendous success.
Sasha T. Goldberg is the Associate Director and Director of Student Programming of Nehirim: GLBT Jewish Culture and Spirituality. A Jewish scholar, educator and community organizer, Sasha holds a Master’s Degree in Judaism from the Graduate Theological Union and has taught nationally on the intersections of Judaism and various cultural, social, sexual and religious identities.
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October 25, 2013
Queer Shabbaton New York 2013 & Student Leadership Conference
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February 14, 2014
Queer Jewish Student Retreat 2014
Boston, MA
March 7, 2014
Nehirim East Gathering
Falls Village, CT
August 8, 2014
Women’s Retreat 2014
Falls Village, CT
more
Upcoming Programs
November 5, 2013
Ma’agal: The Nehirim Women’s Circle — November 2013
New York, NY
December 3, 2013
Ma’agal: The Nehirim Women’s Circle — December 2013
New York, NY
more
Nehirim in the News
Pride Interview: Alyssa Finn and Nehirim
Jul 9, 2013 | Repair the World
Panel urges greater acceptance of LGBTs through word and deed
May 24, 2013 | Jewish Press of Tampa
Jay Michaelson: Homophobia | The Quest of Life
May 10, 2013 | Quest of Life
more
Nehirim’s ‘It Gets Better’ Video
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Marriage Inequality: Not a Jewish Value
by Chris Bargeron May 11, 2011
“Shall the Minnesota Constitution be amended to provide that only a union of one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in Minnesota? ___Yes ___No”
S.F. No. 1308, as introduced – 87th Legislative Session (2011-2012)
548732528 364c8dbe75 b 225x300 Marriage Inequality: Not a Jewish Value
Oy, are we here again already? With a never-ending election cycle, that is played out in the 24×7 media, which in turn feeds the claims, counter-claims and stylized posturing of politicians, it should come as no surprise that the leadership of the GOP-controlled state Senate and House of Representatives has fired the opening salvo of the 2012 campaign. What is at issue? It is not the deficit, or jobs, or health care, although one could be excused for assuming that any of these important issues would figure prominently in the lead-up to our next election of state government leaders. Instead, state senators and representatives have been debating whether or not any Minnesotan may choose to enter into a legal marriage with the person they love.
Specifically, two bills are working their way through the State Senate and House of Representatives that, if approved by both bodies, would place a constitutional amendment before voters that bans same-sex marriage on the 2012 general election ballot. Under Minnesota law, if the proposed constitutional amendment is approved by the legislature it does not require the governor’s signature and goes directly to the ballot. The timing of this measure gives the appearance of strong political motivation, as it has become conventional wisdom that key wedge issues increase voter turnout, especially among socially conservative voters who are also more likely to vote for socially conservative (nearly always GOP) candidates.
In recent decades, many “wedge issues” equate to civil rights for women and gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender (GLBT) people, and fair and reasonable treatment of undocumented immigrants. These divisive issues are exploited to shore up the power base of socially conservative politicians at the expense of marginalized or otherwise vulnerable people.
Now it is Minnesotans’ turn to determine whether or not we will put the civil rights of a minority of its citizens up to a vote of the majority in 2012. I believe that this must not happen. Enshrining marriage inequality in the Minnesota Constitution is bad law and is inconsistent with Jewish values.
Bad Law
(Disclosure: I am not an attorney, so please use the following comments to begin your own inquiry on the legal consideration(s) of this issue.)
While state same-sex marriage bans have been key issues across the nation for several election cycles, such a ban in Minnesota would be redundant for two reasons. First, Minnesota banned marriages between two people of the same sex by statute in 1997. It is not possible for two men or two women to be issued a marriage license in Minnesota because it would be illegal for authorities to do so.
The second reason that same sex marriage ban amendment is redundant is particularly interesting. Minnesota has the distinction of being perhaps the first state in which its supreme court ruled that there is not a constitutional right for two people of the same sex to marry. In 1970 Richard Baker and James Michael McConnell applied for and were denied a marriage license in Minneapolis. They took their case all the way to the Minnesota Supreme Court and the resulting decision, known as Baker v. Nelson has been binding on state courts for more than 30 years. This is not an arcane legal technicality. Earlier this year, this precedent was cited by a Hennepin County trial court as it dismissed a lawsuit to overturn the statute banning same sex marriage. Minnesota is unique among states in regard to the extent our same-sex marriage ban is deeply embedded in case law. As compared to the legal status quo, a constitutional amendment is clearly unnecessary, and brings forth questions about the political motivations of its proponents.
Proposition 8: California’s Same-Sex Marriage Ban
At the national level, one can’t but help to look to California’s legal battle over Proposition 8. In 2008, the voters of California approved a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, which had the effect of closing a brief window during which gay and lesbian people were permitted to marry same-sex partners in California. A federal court found Prop 8 to be unconstitutional last year but the ruling was stayed pending appeal that will almost certainly be forthcoming.
The reason I am mentioning California is that the court ruling overturning Prop 8 made some very compelling findings of fact. Among these finds are (emphasis is mine):
•Marriage is a civil, not religious, matter.
•Individuals do not generally choose their sexual orientation. An individual does not, through conscious decision, therapeutic intervention or any other method, change sexual orientation.
•The State has no interest in asking gays and lesbians to change their orientation or in reducing the number of gays and lesbians…
•Marrying a person of the opposite sex is an unrealistic option for gays and lesbians.
•Domestic partnerships lack the social meaning associated with marriage.
•Gays and lesbians have a long history of being victims of discrimination.
•Religious beliefs that gay and lesbian relationships are sinful or inferior to heterosexual relationships harm gays and lesbians.
(Attribution: findings quoted above from Wikipedia article on the ruling, which cites each finding back to the court ruling.)
This case is about a California law, and may not have direct bearing on the ultimate outcome of a Minnesota constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. However, each of these findings is intuitively true and therefore highly relevant. Further, a same-sex marriage ban is unjust. It unfairly targets gays, lesbians and their children for exclusion from the tangible and emotional benefits of companionship that, as we’ll explore next, is a sacred part of creation.
Jewish Values and Marriage Equality
As my rabbi taught recently, as Jews we affirm that every person is created in the image of God, and as we say in the Sh’ma every day, God is one. The natural extension of these two foundational elements of faith and tradition leads us to know that our connection to the Eternal One is inextricable from our connections with one another.
We also have a collective responsibility to honor and respect creation, and the Torah’s telling of the Creation story brings an interesting and perhaps surprising perspective to the question of marriage equality.
Jay Michaelson, a Jewish activist and scholar, visited Minneapolis in April and shared his views on the religious case for gay equality, with a particular focus on marriage. “The first, fundamental problem that God sees in creation is the problem of aloneness,” Michaelson said. “After saying everything is good — the sky, the earth, the trees — suddenly God says, in Genesis 2:18, that ‘it is not good for a person to be alone.’ And so God sets about creating a companion for Adam. Not a biological reproductive unit, mind you — a companion.
“Of course, Adam and Eve are the fundamental couple in the Genesis story, and they are heterosexual. But Adam and Eve are the solution to a problem: the fundamental problem of aloneness. So how do we understand this teaching today, now that we know that for about 5% of the population, that problem can only be solved by a person of the same sex? The teaching holds: it is not good to be alone — and it is very good to be in a loving, committed partnership. For most people, that partner will be of the opposite sex. For some, the same sex. But the religious value is the same in both cases: love heals the first flaw God finds in creation.”
In Michaelson’s upcoming book God vs. Gay?: The Religious Case for Equality, he analyzes the texts that are often used to condemn homosexual behavior and concludes, “there is no contradiction between these narrow prohibitions and the religious value of love. None whatsoever.”
If we are to honor creation and our ties to all people, then we must recognize the inherent sacredness of all loving companionship. To establish laws that explicitly exclude one group of people from forming socially validated relationships – marriage – is to dishonor creation.
What You Can Do
When a democracy faces critical decision points, it is incumbent for all citizens to become involved. Here are a few simple suggestions on how you can engage with the issue of marriage equality.
Learn
Educate yourself on the issue of marriage equality and what is happening in Minnesota and nationally. Here are some resources to get started with:
Project 515: A Minnesota organization with a mission of working to ensure that same-sex couples and their families have equal rights and considerations under Minnesota law.
Outfront Minnesota: Advocates for equality for GLBT Minnesotans.
The Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism: A summary of the Reform movement’s position on GLBT equality, including marriage equality.
Speak Out
Call your state senator and state representative now to urge them not to write inequality into Minnesota’s constitution. Talk to your friends and family and urge them to do the same thing.
Lend Your Support
Any of the organizations identified above can make great use of your time or financial support to further the cause of marriage equality.
(Image: Jewish Women’s Archive)
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Tagged with: featured GLBT Jay Michaelson Judaism LGBT Marriage Equality Minnesota Politics Social Justice
About Chris Bargeron
Chris Bargeron endeavors to do his part to repair the world, one conversation or relationship at a time -- but tries not to think about it that way because that would be totally overwhelming. He is a non-profit leader, a clinical social worker, and writes about things that are on his mind. These days, Chris spends a lot of time thinking about living Jewishly and living well. He loves to read blog-post comments and hopes that you tell him what you're thinking about. Chris is a member of Shir Tikvah, and has a private psychotherapy practice in the Twin Cities. More information is available at www.bargeron.net.
Comments. Add Yours!
Matthew Gallagher
May 11, 2011 at 10:34 AM
Good article! I’m a fairly conservative Republican and understand a lot about the arguments for those who want to preserve the current concept of marriage, but I enjoyed your points.
In your opinion, is the ability for a locality like MN to choose the laws they live by also a Jewish value? And if so, why does this trump that?
And also, can you conceptualize a form of marriage that would not be a Jewish value to support? Are there limits to your view of equality?
Chris Bargeron
May 11, 2011 at 11:49 AM
@Matthew Gallagher: Thanks for your comment!
I believe that freedom from oppression and just governance are Jewish values. The ability for citizens to shape laws either directly, through the ballot, or indirectly, through their elected leaders, comes with the responsibility to maintain a just society. I believe that excluding gay and lesbian people from civil marriage is unjust, and that it is tantamount to oppression for the majority to impose this on a minority. In this instance, I believe the more compelling values are freedom from oppression and maintaining a just society.
Regarding your second question, my argument relates only to equal access to civil marriage for gay and lesbian people. I believe that the injustice at issue is the unfair restriction of access to marriage based solely on the sex of the two people wishing marry.
Mike
May 11, 2011 at 2:10 PM
Chris,
If you think that the statement “Marriage is a civil, not religious, matter” “is intuitively true,” then why bring in the question of Jewish values at all?
I ask not because I oppose gay marriage (no, I support allowing it), but because I think that what Judaism has to say about it is in no way decisive.
What’s more, I suspect that you do, too. I don’t, of course, claim to know your mind, but answer this honestly — if it were somehow proven to you beyond all doubt that Judaism opposes gay marriage, would you switch to opposing it?
If so, then I apologize for challenging you a bit harshly. You are deeply principled, and, I strongly suspect, in a very small minority of our fellow opponents of the gay marriage ban.
If not, then I suggest that this argument, even if not entirely disingenuous, is unhelpful. If anything, by resting a part of your opposition to the ban on religion, you’re giving the ban’s supporters, a so-to-speak home-court advantage — you’re playing on their field.
Let’s be intellectually honest — the principled opposition to a ban on gay marriage is not based on religion. Freedom, equality, maybe — but not religion.
-Mike
P.S. I really like Jay Michaelson’s creative argument from Bereshit.
Chris Bargeron
May 11, 2011 at 4:37 PM
@Mike: From my perspective, Jewish values are available to guide Am Yisrael, the Jewish people, and are inclusive of – but not limited to – Judaism. That said, while it is true that the constitutional amendment that could potentially be put before the voters in 2012 pertains to civil marriage and not religious marriage, I do not agree that religion has no place in the debate. I support same-sex marriage because everything I know deep in my soul to be true tells me that it is just. I have difficulty looking at this question in a dualistic/either-or frame. The same things that make me a religious liberal Jew tell me that marriage inequality is wrong.
I cannot authentically answer your question asking what I would do if it was proven to me that Judaism opposes gay marriage, because I cannot imagine that happening.
You may argue that if I cite my religious views as I advocate for marriage equality that opens the door to requiring that I validate those who cite their religious views as they argue to limit marriage. I agree that does provide a tactical challenge in the struggle for marriage equality. However, in the end all I can do – all any of us can do – is to speak the truth as I know it. Someone I know told me that the problem with the religious argument against equality for GLBT people is that religious liberal people have ceded the religious argument to the conservatives. How would it be if we could speak out for marriage equality *because* we are religious, and *not in spite of* being religious?
One last thing: I think that the poem “I am a Jew Because,” by Edmund Fleg, describes beautifully Jewish values that are rooted in Judaism but are not limited to religious people:
I am a Jew because my faith demands no abdication of the mind.
I am a Jew because my faith demands all the devotion of my heart.
I am a Jew because wherever there is suffering, the Jew weeps.
I am a Jew because whenever there is despair, the Jew hopes.
I am a Jew because the promise of our faith is a universal promise.
I am a Jew because for the Jew the world is not completed; people must complete it.
I am a Jew because for the Jew humanity is not fully created; people must complete it.
I am a Jew because the faith of the people of Israel places humanity above nations, above Judaism itself.
I am a Jew because the faith of the people of Israel places above humanity, image of the divine, the
Oneness of God.
(http://www.creedia.com/en/content/i-am-jew-becauseby-edmund-fleg)
I appreciate your comment, Mike!
Jenna Zark
May 11, 2011 at 10:01 PM
Great poem, Chris and great post. It’s interesting in the context of Torah, because I have heard the argument that same-sex marriage is forbidden; I always answer there are 613 laws, how many are you actually keeping? How many laws are actually in place that are observed by most (or any) of us today? And if you are keeping all 613, you must be sacrificing lambs or something. At the Temple.
Matthew Gallagher
May 12, 2011 at 12:26 AM
But why just focus on the gender issue? I know plenty of people in plural relationships who’d love to be in plural marriage. It’s a state of marriage not only with precedent in human history, but pretty much all the most famous Biblical Jews/Hebrews were polygamists. None of them were gay. Is it injust to keep them from marrying as well?
Because to me the value that you point out, that man is not meant to be alone, is a higher value than some of these other considerations, but where does someone draw the line? And what authority backs up that line when drawn? It would be unjust to keep people apart, but we don’t keep people apart, they just can’t enter into what some say is an arbitrary institution. When can we say, as a community, that we aren’t well served by endorsing something? Does our right to create the communities we want to live in ever trump someone else’s desire to feel accepted?
Chris Bargeron
May 12, 2011 at 11:42 AM
@Matthew Gallagher:
There is no consideration of the legal status of polygamy taking place in Minnesota. The question here is why qualified gay and lesbian people should be kept from marrying the person of their choice – not how many people can marry. I am not arguing that there should be no rules regarding legal access to marriage, but only that the same rules should be applied justly. The “where will this lead” argument was raised in the twentieth century when laws barring race discrimination in marriage were repealed, and they are being raised again as we advocate to end sex discrimination in marriage. The end of race restrictions in marriage 40+ years ago has not led to changes in laws against polygamy, and there is no credible reason to believe that will happen if Minnesota were to repeal legal restrictions against same-sex marriage. And that is not even on the table.
In my view there is a difference between creating communities where people “feel accepted” and maintaining a just society that provides equal access to civil marriage. There are a lot of places where I could find myself in which I would not feel accepted and, frankly, where I would not in actuality be accepted. For example, as a gay man there are many Orthodox Jewish communities where the validity of the life I live would be questioned by many if not most people in the community. As much as this may sadden me, both for me and more importantly for GLBT people who are born into these communities, I accept that there are communities of faithful people who do not choose to accept me. Further, I accept that someday I may have the opportunity to marry a man I love under the chuppah in my shul, while at the same time other Jewish communities will continue to reserve the marriage ritual for opposite-sex couples. None of this would change if gay and lesbian people were granted equal access to civil (i.e., secular), marriage.
People within religious institutions (synagogues, churches, mosques, and related organizations) are free to set the norms of religious marriage as they see as fit based on their religious views. A common refrain in this national debate has been “If you don’t want same-sex marriage, don’t have one. “ If the citizens of Minnesota get a vote on the sex of the person I can civilly marry, when I do not get a vote on the sex of the person you can civilly marry, that is unjust.
Mike
May 12, 2011 at 9:59 PM
See, Chris, this is what happens when you get religion into it — they throw polygamous patriarchs in your face.
Matthew,
Those are valid points, as far as they go. But turnabout is fair play, too.
Where would you draw the line?
And on what authority?
I presume your line includes marriage interracial unions. Why?
And, just for clarity’s sake — what exactly is wrong with plural marriage (assuming consenting adults all around)?
As for the right to create communities, my answer is whenever it’s a thoroughly private act.
Otherwise, our American concern with individual rights trumps community feelings.
As an example, people may create an all-one-race neighborhood by informal agreement, but if they involve the state by entering into (enforceable) contracts to accomplish this, that’s illegal.
Matthew Gallagher
May 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM
I point on the patriarchs to note that polygamy has a rich history of acceptance, but gay marriage doesn’t. That doesn’t have anything to do with right or wrong, of course. It’s simply a fact, and if the point is whether gay marriage is a Jewish value, then you have to extend that standard to judge other things, otherwise it’s just you twisting religion to your own personal preferences.
When you argue, for instance, that gay marriage is a right, then you have to ask why other forms of marriage aren’t rights, or concede that they are. And if they are, then you have to accept that too. The definition of marriage is what it is. If you want to change it, then change it, but acknowledge that you’re changing it.
I don’t think government should be in the marriage business. I think marriage is a great institution, but social engineering isn’t the government’s job. This is also the position of the Israeli government, actually, who has no civil marriage. Only religious.
Short of that, I think that people have the right of self determination. Gays can form whatever unions are special to them, and if states, through their legislature or through popular vote, want to allow them, or polygamists, or anyone to have access to traditional marriage, then that’s perfectly fine. Let them choose. The authority is the consent of the governed.
I don’t think marriage is a right, period, so I don’t know how civil rights enter into the conversation. I don’t believe laws should take personal affection into account, so it’s not a question of equality to me.
I include interracial unions because there is no difference between a black man and a white man, but there is a difference between men and women. I think it’s well meaning, but very naive to compare gay people and black people. And I think most black people would agree with me. I’ve never got pulled over by a cop in Mississippi for being bisexual.
I just think arguments about why people are terribly bad for denying people their rights aren’t going to fly. They’re insulting, I think. And ineffective.
I want to see people make the case why gay marriage is good for marriage and why people should support it. Don’t say “it’s not a threat to your marriage, and by the way marriage is already ruined by a high divorce rate.” I hate that argument, because it shows a disrespect for the institution. Let me know why marriage will be strengthened by this! And let me decide. People have tender hearts. Nearly everyone, when they stop to think, empathizes. They just don’t want to end up like Europe where the marriage rate is crashing, and the birth rate is crashing, and people care more about taking care of themselves than raising a family.
Plural marriage isn’t wrong to me, but is ridiculously hard, and most people can’t do it. And it opens a huge bucket of worms financially, legally, and emotionally, and to allow it is an endorsement of it, which could seriously mess some people up. But if the citizenry wants it, than they can allow it. And people have the right to protect their communities from those effects. They don’t have the right to keep people apart, in their own eyes and the eyes of God.
Alright. TL;DR, but I hope I answered all your questions intelligently.
Chris Bargeron
May 13, 2011 at 6:26 PM
@Jenna Zark: Thanks for your kind comments….they mean a lot.
Chris
Mike
May 14, 2011 at 9:55 AM
Matthew,
It looks to me like you and I are coming at this from entirely different perspectives. Yours is communitarian — prove to me that this is good for the community. Mine is that of individual rights — prove to me that this is not an unjustified limitation on individuals.
The American political culture — from the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution onwards in our history holds up individual rights, not community wishes. So, for example, state’s rights have consistently lost out to individual rights.
Maybe it’s not good for the community to have gay marriage. Maybe it’s not even good to have gays at all — they raise all these troublesome issues and divide the community. Jews, too. And blacks. I’m not putting this argument in our mouth, but there is an argument to be made that homogeneity (or at least conformity) is better for the community.
(There’re also powerful arguments that communities are better off from diversity. Just anecdotally (and please excuse the somewhat stereotypical examples) — America is better off with than without Jewish scientists, black athletes, and gay entertainers.)
But that’s beside the point. In America (unlike many other countries) it’s not about the community — it’s about individual liberty.
If I publish a “subversive” newspaper, or put on a play that’s “in bad taste,” I don’t have to prove that this improves the culture. I have a right to do it, whether it’s better for the community or not. That’s liberty.
Interracial couples didn’t have to prove that their marriages improved marriage. Neither should same-sex couples.
To this you say that the cases are not analogous because “there is no difference between a black man and a white man, but there is a difference between men and women.” That just won’t fly.
Of course there’s a difference between men and women, *and* blacks and whites. Not a difference in worth. But there is a difference that we can tell (can see, in these cases). If we truly thought there was no difference, there would never have been discrimination. The whole concept of discrimination would have been absurd. The idea of equality is not that people are actually identical; it’s that we decided that, in things that matter, they are equal. And the most basic equality is equality before the law.
Yes, blacks and gays don’t face identical challenges. But they are both minority groups that are disliked by some proportion of society. And discriminated against.
That’s why they fight for their individual rights.
But they don’t have to prove that they improve marriage for all.
Matthew Gallagher
May 14, 2011 at 10:28 AM
But justice is blind, and a blind system doesn’t take into account race or sexual preference. It’s legal for one man to marry one woman. Everybody IS treated the same. That’s equality.
It also sucks rocks. But if you’re arguing from an equal rights perspective, it’s solid. I’m sorry. Gay people do have the same access to the system, it just doesn’t do anything worthwhile for them, but how is that the government’s problem? I don’t get anything out of a lot of laws, but I have access to them. I have equal access to social security as my grandparents, I just don’t qualify for it.
This is the crux of the problem. I love individual liberty, but we’re not discussing liberty, because no one’s liberty is being attacked. Marriage is not a natural right.
And no, there really is no biological difference between blacks and whites. Laws that treated them differently were based on scientific falsehoods, and unjustified discrimination. That’s why they fell.
we don’t live in an anarchistic, or even libertarian system. We make decisions as a community. No, those decisions can’t infringe on a person’s natural rights. But in all else, we make decisions as a community.
The GBLT community is best served by dropping this empty argument that only makes everyone outrageously outraged, and instead approach each other as human beings, appealing to each other’s best values and humanity.
Dr. King did far more to heal race relations by announcing his fondest hopes and dreams then by shaming others with calls of bigotry. And he even had the right to do it.
Matthew Gallagher
May 14, 2011 at 10:43 AM
And, Mike, you have to address the same questions. If you believe this is about government securing individual liberty vis a vis marriage, then can you conceive of a form of marriage you do not think is a right? And defend why the line is drawn there, and by what authority.
And if you’re not in favor of limitations, then at what point does does it conceivably hurt my marriage through the weakening of the institution?
People always dismiss this as a slippery slope argument, but slopes are actually slippery. There are many groups with lawyers chomping at the bit to protest the government to allow marriage to include them. They’re ready to go, and if you can’t defend the line, then there isn’t one anymore. And why, ethically, don’t communities have the right to keep that from happening?
Mike
May 14, 2011 at 12:23 PM
Maybe you’re right, Matthew, that people respond not to dry arguments about rights and justice, but to emotional appeals based on “humanity.” In that case, nothing I have to say is going to do any good.
Anyway, Chris, I’d like to point out that Matthew and I, by arguing what we argued about, demonstrated that religion is not what’s important in this debate.
Chris Bargeron
May 17, 2011 at 10:22 AM
@Mike: My eye is on the outcome, not the religiosity of those who support marriage equality. Yet, I remain hopeful that those of us who are religious and support justice for LGBT people can and will bring our whole selves to this debate and the work at hand.
Thanks for lending your voice to the conversation!
By Chris Bargeron
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Gay, Female and Seeking a Home in the Orthodox Community
5.18.11 : The Jewish Daily Forward
Gay, Female and Seeking a Home in the Orthodox Community
By Rebecca Schischa
Courtesy of Miryam Kabakov
Miryam Kabakov
The Hebrew Institute of Riverdale was the first Orthodox synagogue on Miryam Kabakov’s “You Are Not Alone” book tour. Kabakov, founder of the New York Orthodykes and the editor of the 2010 book “Keep Your Wives Away From Them: Orthodox Women, Unorthodox Desires” — an anthology of 14 essays by Orthodox (or Orthodox-leaning) women who identify as lesbian or LGBTQ — said the book tour is about hearing women’s stories and continuing the discussion that the book started. (Check out our recent podcast with Kabakov here.)
Rabbi Steven Exler, a member of the Hebrew Institute’s rabbinic staff, also thanked the audience for “heeding the call that this is an important conversation to be had.”
Alongside Kabakov at the May 16 event were contributors to the collection. They included the pseudonymous Ex-Yeshiva Girl with her “radical queer politics” and the lawyer Elaine Chapnik, each of whom read from their essays. Also taking part in a spirited Q&A was Chani Getter, a lesbian mother-of-three and a former member of the Hasidic community.
Speakers issued several challenges to the audience — a multigenerational, cross-denominational crowd, of both straight and gay people. Kabakov asked: “I ask you, members of the Bayit” — as the Bronx congregation is known to its members — “are you there for your LGBT members?”
Getter, who spoke with passion about her and her three children’s journeys to acceptance within the family’s Modern Orthodox community, closed her comments with the question: “Will you be one of the ones who makes it easy or difficult [for children of gay parents]?”
While there was debate about the issue of whether or not lesbian relationships are halachically prohibited, HIR community members showed active interest in ‘reconfiguring’ the issue away from halachic discussion, and sought out practical steps to make the community more LGBTQ-friendly.
“It’s about visible representation”, said Kabakov. “We want our life passages to be marked, just like you.” Other suggestions included getting Jewish schools to talk about diversity, and starting “intolerance to intolerance” campaigns.
A gay mom in the audience gave another suggestion: “Accept our straight children as potential marriage partners.” She recounted how her daughter was avoiding dating for marriage, fearing any partner would reject her once he discovered that her mother was gay.
There were also great moments of Jewish humor during the evening. One participant spoke about encountering at an Orthodox lesbian gathering a Bobover Hasidic woman who was bemoaning the dearth of suitable gay women to meet in her Hasidic community. Another participant suggested setting her up with “a great Lubavitcher woman.” To which the Bobover woman apparently replied in horror: “Lubavitcher? No way!”
Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/137917/#ixzz1NI24EBLD
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October 20, 2013
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Queer Rites: God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality
Posted on 27. Sep, 2011 by Thom Nickels in Features, Religion, Reviews
Like most people, I weathered the media panic surrounding the coming of Hurricane Irene. Although the rational part of me remained calm, the media frenzy seemed to want people to overreact.
The loud chorus of doom had taken over every other item in the news.
“Hurricane of the century,” “Hurricane of Hurricanes,” people were saying. Like a contagious fever, the panic element grew until some members of the broadcast media advised people to stock up on bottled water because Philadelphia’s water supply would probably become contaminated.
The ‘Eve of Destruction’ scenario came mostly from TV’s talking heads that for two or three days at least devoted entire newscasts to news of murderous Irene on “her” Bloody Path of Destruction. Feelings of panic, like lone notes in a piece of classical music that eventually swell into a Wagnerian overture, grew until people began to do unusual things like chop down large trees on their lawns before the storm had a chance to knock them over.
The talking heads had done their job: many were convinced that Armageddon was at hand.
In the wake of the impending disaster, I did what any book lover would do: I turned the TV off and reached for a book.
In this case I selected, “God vs. Gay, the Religious Case for Equality,” by Jay Michaelson.
Michaelson, the author of three books and the founder of Nehirim, a community programming resource for LGBT Jews and their friends, has written an explicitly honest book about his journey to self acceptance.
“For many years, I lived as an Orthodox Jew,” Michaelson writes, “strictly observing the minutiae of Jewish law. But I have also wandered far from my roots. I have spent many weeks on silent meditation retreats in Buddhist traditions—traditions in which I now teach as well.”
When reading this statement my mind raced back to what the Dalai Lama is on record as saying about homosexuality. Liberal, mostly secular American Buddhist adherents aside, this is what His Holiness is on record as saying: “A Western friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex, if they enjoyed it. But the purpose of sex is reproduction, according to Buddhism. The other holes don’t create life. I don’t mind – but I can’t condone this way of life.”
(Minus the reference to holes, this could also be a statement by another His Holiness, Benedict XVI of Rome).
Michaelson is no slouch when it comes to knowing both the Old and New Testaments. He writes that he’s studied the New Testament “as someone deeply involved with ecumenical and interfaith dialogue.”
In fact, there doesn’t seem to be much that he hasn’t studied, whether it’s Islamic, Hindu, or what he calls “nonaligned.” He considers himself fortunate to have journeyed so far and wide.The reason for his submergence into reading and scholarship was to ease his pain as a gay man.
“I contemplated suicide virtually every day of my life for almost ten years. And I tried everything. Abstinence, negative reinforcement, fantasizing about women. I was even in a loving relationship with a woman for over a year, trying all the while to be straight.”
In a sense, Micahelson’s story sounds like every other coming out epic, but the difference here is that the author wanted to know whether coming out was spiritually the right thing to do. It’s one thing to follow secular self-help psychology about being who you are, the ‘I’m OK, You’re OK’ school of life which tends to paint everything with a broad brush. Michaelson wanted to be
Beacon Press
certain he was ‘okay’ if only because he was tired of asking himself why God had made him that way. “How could I be so evil?” he asks, “I couldn’t make sense of it.”
But even after a lengthy period of questioning, researching and finding a life partner, the thorn is still in his side. He admits that, “I don’t want to be gay. I’ve had homophobia ingrained in me, and all things being equal, I’d rather be straight. I envy my straight friends, who can get married and have families that are not scrutinized and delegitimized.”
But are gays and lesbians getting married today being scrutinized and delegitimized? Perhaps they are in rural cities and states, but in New York City? Even if both of the answers to this question are yes, the societal trend is away from these impediments.
God vs. Gay got me thinking about the many forms of ingrained homophobia.
Consider the closet case who mouths homophobic slurs, or closeted politicians who do not support gay rights. Internalized homophobia, however, can also effect the seemingly out and proud. These are gay people who for one reason or another are unnecessarily hard on one another. You used to see this on a wide scale within activist organizations or lgbt communities where various leaders with large egos would clash with other leaders or peers. It’s one thing to have a falling out or a disagreement that stays within the bounds of ‘agreeing to disagree,’ quite another when it evolves into a paralyzing decades-long immobilization.
As a Philadelphia artist friend of mine commented recently when his mostly-gay art exhibit received good reviews from the city’s straight reviewers but was panned by the only gay reviewer: “I got a really snarky review from a fellow homo!”
“What is it with homos hating other homos?” he asked.
At a loss for words, I couldn’t help but question whether a smattering of internalized homophobia, posing as intelligent criticism, wasn’t at work here.
Although God vs. Gay risks boring the reader with the all too predictable re-examination of biblical verses that seem to condemn same sex love, Micahelson has more interesting things to say about this than the average commentators of this litany.
Of special note is his focus on Jesus’ attitude towards eunuchs, “who were also very queer in their societal context.” Eunuchs from birth, or the spiritually castrated as referenced in Matthew 19, seem to jive with Clement of Alexandria’s contention that “some men, from their birth, have a natural sense of repulsion from a woman, and those who are naturally so committed do well not to marry.”
Michaelson asks: Is Matthew 19 referring to such men?
Some of Michaelson’s other conclusions: That Leviticus 18:22 is a prohibition on male anal sex in the context of idolatry.
That for the early Church fathers, including St. Paul, the problem was sexuality, not homosexuality.
That the Old Testament’s prohibitions on male anal sex are linked to prohibitions on idolatry. “They are about ritual purity, not ethical law,” he says.
That St. Augustine, who had love affairs with both men and women, later advocated “having natural sex with a prostitute rather than ‘unnatural’ sex with oneself or another man.”
That St. Thomas Aquinas believed that homosexual behavior “is no worse than masturbation—or, for that matter, lending money at interest, which was also called ‘unnatural.’”
Michaelson’s respectful treatment of traditions not his own, and his avoidance of journalistic attacks on easy contemporary targets like the Catholic Church, gives his voice added weight. He writes with a graceful conviction, without the tinge of prejudice or a harsh axe to grind.
“Accepting religious diversity is good for religious communities because it is precisely the flexibility of religious values that enables them to survive and adapt,” he writes. “The history of religion is marked by exactly this sort of progress—right from the beginning….The law, which God had set down only a few chapters earlier, changes when suppressed voices are heard and a cogent claim for justice is staked. This is how religion is meant to operate.”
Queer Rites: God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality
by Jay Michaelson
Beacon Press
Paperback, 9780807001592, 205pp.
October 2011
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About Thom Nickels
Thom Nickels is a Philadelphia-based author/journalist, the author of nine published books, including: The Cliffs of Aries (1988), The Boy on the Bicycle (1991-1994), Manayunk (1997), Gay and Lesbian Philadelphia (2000), Tropic of Libra (2002), Out in History and Philadelphia Architecture (2005). In 1990, Mr. Nickels was nominated for a Lambda Literary Award and a Hugo Award for his book, Two Novellas. He was awarded the Philadelphia AIA Lewis Mumford Architecture Journalism Award in 2005 for his book Philadelphia Architecture and his weekly architectural columns in Philadelphia Metro. He has written feature stories, celebrity interviews, and social commentary columns for The Philadelphia Inquirer, The Philadelphia Daily News, the Philadelphia Bulletin, City Paper, The Philadelphia Weekly, The Philadelphia Gay News and The New Oxford Review. His travel essays have appeared in Passport Magazine. His column, Different Strokes in the Philadelphia Welcomat in the early 1980s, was one of the first out lgbt columns in a mainstream newspaper. He’s currently the architectural writer/critic columnist and feature writer for ICON Magazine (New Hope, PA), a contributing editor at Philadelphia’s Weekly Press, and a weekly columnist for Philadelphia’s STAR publications. Mr. Nickels also writes for the Broad Street Review and The Gay and Lesbian Review. His novel SPORE was published in July 2010. His novella Walking Water & After All This (1989)-- is currently available on Amazon and will be a paperback later this year He is listed in Who’s Who in America, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009. You can visit Nickel's webcast here.
Tags: God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality, Jay Michaelson, Queer Rites, Spirituality, Thom Nickels
4 Responses to “Queer Rites: God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality”
Steve Berman 27 September 2011 at 1:33 PM #
Thom, please consider–especially considering that the author of the book is Jewish–to not use the term “Old Testament” but rather “Hebrew Bible.” Many Jews find the usage of “OT” to be offensive.
Reply
Amos Lassen 28 September 2011 at 6:42 PM #
I agree with Steve–you can also use the Five Books of Moses or the Pentateuch. I found Jay’s book to be not only well written but extremely important and not just for Jews.. I received an advance reader copy a few months ago and went through it word by word and page by page. I consider myself to be well educated in Judaism and in gay literature and I found that there is still so much more to think about.. It is a welcome addition to our canon ans will undoubtedly be on my year;’s best list/
Reply
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
1.God vs. Gay? Book Launch | LGBT Human Rights. Gay News, Entertainment, Travel - October 25, 2011
[...] of a handful of Biblical verses about sexuality for the modern reader. In doing so, the author tackles seven controversial passages, dissecting the Hebrew in order to get at the root meaning of those passages, which have long been [...]
2.God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality | jaymichaelson.net - January 17, 2012
[...] Lambda Literary (Thom Nickels) Michaelson “writes with a graceful conviction, without the tinge of prejudice or a harsh axe to grind.” [...]
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Religion
The Bible Is Actually Pro Gay!
By Michael Musto Tue., Sep. 27 2011 at 11:10 AM
13 Comments
Categories: Religion
MICHAELSON_GodVsGay-compressed.jpg
That's the contention of gay-rights activist and religion scholar Jay Michaelson, whose new book, God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality, makes some startling arguments that will have the Bible-thumpers turning into pillars of opened tea bags.
Says the book:
"The Hebrew bible and the New Testament both emphasize the importance of love, compassion, and equality.
"The moral principles in these texts favor acceptance of gays and lesbians, outweighing the handful of ambiguous verses so often cited by conservatives."
I always thought the Bible could be interpreted as a tool of good, not randomly translated to favor hate and oppression.
Thank you, God.
Looks like I'm about to go down on my knees again.
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Calani
Calani
Feb 16, 2013
Found interesting article about this its real technical too http://www.themessiahspurpose.com/is-god-gay-what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality/
Personally I think that if the bible doesn't accept gays and they don't want to change their ways, because that's what the bible says to do...then they should just leave bible alone. Just my opinion
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Telson7
Telson7
Feb 17, 2012
Nowadays, it is going on conversations about homosexuality; some are against it and some on behalf of it. The right answer we can find from the word of God (the Bible).
The Lord Jesus is the Messiah, Redeemer from sins and the Saviour. Jesus' must fulfilled the whole law of God and believed all what the Old Testament taught, that He could be the Saviour. He did fulfill and believe all the law. In the Old Testament were commandments, which teach that homosexuality is a sin. Because the Lord Jesus had to believe all commandments of the Old Testament, so He also believed that homosexuality is a sin. The Bible teaches that homosexuality was a sin in the order of the Old Covenant and is valid in the order of the New Covenant. Like this way Jesus also believed that homosexuality is a sin, and He also condemned homosexuality by this way.
For the sake of sodomites' abomination acts, God destroyed Sodom as Ezekiel 16:49,50 shows for us. Ezekiel uses 16:50 Hebrew word towebah, which is the same Hebrew word in Lev 18:22 (and Lev 20:13) that describes homosexuality as abomination. It is very clear that in Ezekiel 16:50, abomination means homosexuality acts as the reason for destroying of Sodom. Sodomites pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness and hardened hearts towards poor and needy were sins, but destruction came for the sake of homosexuality, and the New Testament confirms this:
Jude1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Apostle Paul wrote very clearly that homosexuality (men having sex with other men; women having sex with other women) is a sin. Ro 1:27 is word error, which is in Greek plane, which means error, to deceive, deceit, one led astray from the right way, error which shows itself in action, a wrong mode of acting. In this place, the Bible in the New Testament shows very clearly that same-gender sex is a sin and aberration from the right way. Apostle Paul taught very clearly that homosexuality is unnatural sin.
Many scientists believe that homosexuality is congenital, a matter and orientation that can't be changed as heterosexual. Paradoxical is that many scientists don't believe in God of the Bible, and they proclaim that God of the Bible is not existed. Nevertheless, God of the Bible is capable of change homosexuals individuals to be as heterosexuals.
Arsenos means male and koiten means bed. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 teach that a man cannot lie (sexual act) with another man as he lies with a woman. The origin of the word arsenokoites means homosexual activity and homosexual. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 prove very clearly that arsenos koitenmeans homosexuality sex, because the Jews scribes translated words' arsenos koiten to describe men who have sex with another men (homosexuality), which is a sin and against the will of God. Apostle Paul didn't make up the word arsenokoites, but it was already as the concept in the Old Testament, where it meant homosexuality. It is very clear that the words' arsenos koiten meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jews of the Old Covenant era. In the same way arsenokoites meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jesus' disciples in the New Covenant era.
Jewish philosopher Philo lived in the same time as Jesus Christ and Philo has said that arsenokoites meant shrine prostitute (male temple prostitute), and not homosexual. Some people have made from this a conclusion that the word arsenokoites meant a male temple prostitute. Philo's interpretation was totally wrong, because the Bible proves this undisputedly and shows that Philo erred.
Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 doesn't use temple prostitute word, but words in which is denied that a man can't lie sexually with another man. Always when the Bible speaks for temple prostitutes, so the Bible uses words gedeshah and gadesh. If Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 told for temple prostitutes, so verses would mention them, but there isn't, because in those verses, the Bible forbids homosexuality. It is very clear and undisputable in the light of the testimony of the Bible, that arsenokoites means homosexuality.
According to words of the Lord Jesus, Jesus' disciples can judge righteous judgement. If somebody is stealing, living in adultery or is lying, so we have the right to say sin as a sin. According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin and so Jesus' disciples have the right to say what the Bible teaches. Jesus' disciple has a right to say that living in sins lead people to eternal damnation. Jesus' disciple doesn't judge to damnation, but tells that God shall judge sin maker to hell.
God loves also gay-people, but not sinful act of homosexuality, and therefore, God calls gay-people repentance and receives salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus. In other words, God loves sinners, but not sins. The gospel and its changing power is meant also for gay-people, because the Lord Jesus can set you free you from your sins.
I don't condemn homosexuals, but love them by the love of God. The love of God also holds on from the truth, and therefore, I must say that homosexuality is a sin, it is not condemning, but telling the truth. God has authority to judge, not a man. God judges in His word homosexuality as a sin. I can tell about judgements that what God does, and I don't condemn, but tell who judge.
I don't support discrimination of homosexuals, because they are valuable as my neighbors. However, homosexuality is a sin. It is possible to integrate from homosexuality and get rid of it. The Lord Jesus can save and give freedom to you. I recommend for you to read the Bible, because there God teaches for natural sexuality and salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus.
Reference: http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaav...
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carbonaro
carbonaro
Sep 29, 2011
The most boring book, The Bible!
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hgb
hgb
Sep 29, 2011
It is not Gods´ love and His acceptance what is in question here, but mens attitude towards His Word. There has to be repentance of sins and a surrender to Jesus, follow by the obedience to the Word of God. Like it or not, it is not our opinion that matters here, but what God says about it. The Bible is very clear about any kind of sin. Is true that He loves gay as He loves people who lie, steal, or kill, however it does not mean that just because He loves us all, we will continue to do wrong, like the things mentioned here. We need to repent and accept Christ to receive forgiveness of sin, then, start living by His Word, and that's the way it is...
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Kpilott
Kpilott
Sep 28, 2011
1 Corinthians 6:9-10"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulters, nor effminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."
God does forgive, but first you must believe in Jesus Christ and repent from all sin. All includes homosexuality.
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Southern Dave
Southern Dave
Sep 28, 2011
As Gomer Pyle would say, "Surprise, surprise."
In this space a few weeks ago, I listed all the Biblical quotes that I remembered off the top of my head. They all concerned love and acceptance.
Gypsy Rose Lee said, "God is Love, but get it in writing."
And there it is, in the biggest Best Seller of All Time.
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Rideswithchrist
Rideswithchrist
Sep 27, 2011
2 Tim 3 2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
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Leeshavon
Leeshavon
Sep 28, 2011
Mercy! 5 & 7 are deep bro!
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gato liso
gato liso
Sep 27, 2011
The bible is a great work of fiction. Amen..
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Homobo
Homobo
Sep 27, 2011
All this means is that the bible can be used to make any argument that suits you, which means it is simultaneously meaningless and dangerous.
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Rogie
Rogie
Sep 27, 2011
The real issue here is: 3,000 years later, for people living mostly everywhere except in a desert, and with very few among us recently enslaved and threatened with extinction (and therefore subject to strict rules regarding reproductive sex). All these great differences and separations, along with historical proof that following scripture blindly leads to nothing but misery and tragedy, with science having proved once and for all that it's plain false, and we're still taking this piece of shit seriously?
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Pepperpot
Pepperpot
Sep 27, 2011
Well, Christians always say you should love the sinner, just don't love the sin itself. Which is crazy. I read the bible to mean love and equality for all, just like the book you wrote about says. Maybe THIS is the real good book.
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Roisters
Roisters
Sep 27, 2011
"pillars of opened tea bags" lol.
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God vs. Gay?
The Religious Case for Equality
Jay Michaelson. Beacon, $25.95 (232p) ISBN 978-0-8070-0159-2
Michaelson, biblical scholar and founder of the Jewish GLBT organization Nehirim, makes the case that God-versus-gay is a lie. Not only is there no conflict between being gay and being religious, but also the core values of Judaism and Christianity demand that GLBT individuals be respected and welcomed. In the first and last thirds of the work, Michaelson explores those core values and anticipates the benefits of making religion less hostile to homosexuality. While well-reasoned, added depth and length would make his claims more persuasive. The central third of his book shows why the biblical verses commonly used to attack homosexuality should not be understood that way. Although this material has been more convincingly presented elsewhere, having it alongside the other two parts of the work underscores why gay-friendly scripture readings should be more compelling. The audience for the book remains unclear; sometimes Michaelson addresses GLBT individuals, sometimes allies, and sometimes opponents of legal equality. This scattering keeps the book from providing much concrete advice. As a salvo in the case for equality, however, it shows how to reframe the debate and stop seeing a chasm between God and gay. (Oct.)
Reviewed on: 08/08/2011
Release date: 10/01/2011
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Nehirim selected for Slingshot List of 50 Most Innovative Jewish Nonprofits
10.20.11 : Nehirim
New York, November 20, 2011 — Nehirim, the leading national provider of community programming for LGBT Jews, partners, and allies, has been named one of the 50 most innovative Jewish nonprofits in North America by Slingshot ‘11—’12, a resource guide for Jewish innovation.
The Slingshot guide is used by philanthropists, volunteers, not-for-profit executives, and program participants to identify trailblazing organizations grappling with concerns in Jewish life such as identity, community, and tradition.
Jay Michaelson, Nehirim’s founding director, said, “Our inclusion in Slingshot ‘11—’12 is a tremendous honor and a strong validation of how we’ve created a national community of diverse folks committed to a more just and inclusive world.”
JYW was chosen for inclusion in Slingshot ‘11—’12 for the second time by a panel of 36 foundation professionals from across North America. Finalists are chosen based on their strength in four areas: innovation, impact, leadership, and organizational efficiency.
According to Will Schneider, executive director of Slingshot: “Slingshot highlights those organizations that work to ensure that Jewish life isn’t left behind as the world moves forward. We had more applications than ever this year, with a wider variety of missions. In order to be selected by our evaluators, innovations and their impact had to resonate more than ever.”
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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Sohailhs
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08:51 PM on 11/10/2011
homosexuality is indeed immoral behavior and is a major sin in Islam. The practice of homosexuality began with the people of Lut (Alyhis Salaam). Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Quran:
ولوطا إذ قال لقومه أتأتون الفاحشة ما سبقكم بها من أحد من العالمين
“And (remember) Lut, when he said to his people: Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceded you has committed in the worlds?” (7:80)
In this verse, the word “Fahishah”, which means an atrocious, obscene, lewd, shameless act, is referring to the practice of homosexuality. After the people of Sodom ignored the warnings of Lut (Alayhis Salaam) to stop this act and to follow the true path, Allah Ta’ala wiped them out with a severe punishment by turning their towns upside down and burying them with stones of baked clay. This was a telling punishment by Allah Ta’ala for going against the natural order created by Him.
Allah Ta’ala has also stated in several places of the Quran that He has created men and women so that they may be mates for each other (in marriage). The inception of marriage for mankind on Earth was to maintain the human race through procreation. Therefore, it is absolutely clear that homosexuality is strictly prohibited.
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rey del nada
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07:31 AM on 11/02/2011
I believe many Muslim scholars would indicate that Irshad Manji is in fact not Muslim.
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05:36 PM on 10/31/2011
Congratulations to Archbishop Michael Seneco for his pastoral leadership.
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iamone3
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07:22 PM on 10/28/2011
Homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end. It is contrary to the survival of the species. Just facts.
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GDWhiteman
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12:54 PM on 10/29/2011
Our species is in no apparent danger of going extinct as a result of too few of us.
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LintLass
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01:57 AM on 10/30/2011
Funny thing about that is that you really have to be a breeder who doesn't understand we're a social species to say that.
If this was about breeding, we wouldn't be talking here, cause we wouldn't. We'd be breeding.
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footearowl
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05:47 AM on 10/28/2011
You people who have lost yourselves to the mental and emotional illness that is lgbt Lost-Goofy-Boneheads n Twits need to resign yourselves to The Written Word and not try and bend it to fit whatever platform which you "choose" to speak from!! The bottom line here, ooops uhhm sorry boys NOT that one, is to learn The Truth and then refrain from doing any more of what ails you currently and Pray that your footsteps and heart will lead you to "A New Understanding" so that the old way of life is left behind making it possible for "A New Creature" to appear, one who is
ready and obedient To Both Keep and Do The Will and Word Of God Almighty!! Heyy, don't get mad at me, just get it together and change your acts so that you DO NOT INFLUENCE THE AS YET UNEXPOSED AND THE YOUNG WHO HAVE NOT EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO LEARN, KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE SCOURGE AND VILE ILLNESS THAT WOULD TAKE THEM ALL SO WILLINGLY!!!!
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Planet Pluto
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08:07 AM on 10/28/2011
You may or may not be a little nutty.... BUT....
You do have a point there when you say, "Do not influence the as yet unexposed." Truth be told, that is precisely the m.o. of some in the LGBT community (as well as others obsessed with sexualizing our entire culture).
Take NY, for example, where sarting next year there will be mandated sex ed starting in middle school which will teach people in as early as 7th grade not about the mechanics of sex or the biology, but about anal sex, homosexuality, anal sex, and, my personal favorite, "oral sex with braces." The students will be given 'risk cards' detailing different sexual acts with a detailed rating on them for each (as if any sexual act is really 'safe' for a 7th grader).
While I'm a bit skeptical of your post (seems a little over the top for me), I will say that you hit the nail on the head with that one statement. For the most part, unless specifically brought to their attention, a 7th grader would likely not even consider many of the things that are slated to be taught to them next year. (Feel free to do a Google News search)
The funny thing is, "they" continuously force sex into society's youth, then turn around and say, "Well, kids are doing it anyway, so we might as well address it." It's like a glass shop owner smashing neighborhood windows on the weekend.
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10:20 AM on 10/28/2011
F&F
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priceofliberty
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09:25 AM on 10/28/2011
lol. Umm. I think you should re-read the written word. Its not these people that are bending it. Its the tradition that has been around for 700 years that bent it. Yes 700 not 2000.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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10:21 AM on 10/28/2011
Sorry that doesnt fly. The twisting is being done by these leaders the written Biblical word doesnt equivocate.
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06:53 PM on 10/27/2011
Reverend Mel White, founder of Soulforce should also be included. Congrats to all.
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starjack
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10:55 AM on 10/27/2011
What? No Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence?
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11:23 AM on 10/26/2011
Reclaim?
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07:47 AM on 10/26/2011
I believe that the unbiased love of the Almighty is for all of mankind who are seeking relief through a Higher Power. I believe that God is raising up a people who have put on the armor of the Holy Spirit to restore the true teachings of Christ as each is inspired by the wisdom of God's messenger. I also think it wise to listen to and understand the reasoning of some atheists. Judgementalism is as rampant among as many who claim to be Christians as is among some radicals in the Muslim faith. Christians have been programmed to look down on some just as southerners have been programmed to look down on people with dark skin. God is a Spirit of love and truth. God's spiritual love does not require physical contact.
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12:49 PM on 10/26/2011
well said.
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11:57 PM on 10/23/2011
I tried adding a slide, but it didn't go through - and he may not be eligible for this list since he died earlier this year, but I don't see how it can be complete without a mention of Rev. Peter Gomes. A brilliant preacher and writer, he came out in 1991. His "The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Mind and Heart," written a couple of years later, opened many minds (including mine).
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02:04 PM on 10/24/2011
Gomes was an amazing man.
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06:57 PM on 10/23/2011
What a great cloud of witnesses -- many of whom I am honored to call friends and brothers and sisters in the struggle. They show us that it is long past time time to take to heart the words of Rabbi Abraham Heschel, who famously said, “Few are guilty, but all are responsible.” We -- progressive people of faith -- may not be guilty of the religion based bigotry that has wounded countless members of God’s beloved LGBT children but we responsible for offering a counter-narrative to the lies that have been told about the God we serve – the God of love, justice and compassion.
Also on my list: Rabbi Denise Eger; Rabbi Temple Kol Ami, founding member of HRC Religion Council and past-president So Cal Board of Rabbis and the Very Reverend Michael Hopkins; past-president of Integrity USA and an architect of the Episcopal Church's movement forward on LGBT ordinations and the blessing of same-sex union.
The Reverend Canon Susan Russell
Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles/All Saints Church, Pasadena
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Carolyn Kennedy
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12:48 AM on 10/23/2011
Missed a few--- Carter Hayward, lesbian, Episcopal priest and writer; Amy deLong, Methodist pastor recently stood trial for officiating at the marriage of two women; Rev. Dr. William Johnson, first openly gay man to be ordained by a mainline Protestant church (United Church of Christ)
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HGfromOmaha
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10:56 PM on 10/22/2011
Oh! This is going to be good! I haven't even read the comments yet but I'm going to grab a drink and start reading the "Christians" attacking one another! I can almost visualize all the pasting of Bible verses that's about to take place. Can't wait to count how many times the term "true Christian" is used!
This is going to be great!
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Lucy0808
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10:40 PM on 10/22/2011
Most of the items that were called sins in the bible are not considered sins today. It keeps changing and even the most conservative reactionary Christian doesn't call all of the sins of the bible sins for today. Mylord, the bible supported slavery in a jolly way and sujugation of women and other people especially the gentiles. In Leviticus, the jews were allowed to wipe out villages with women and children included. Everyone. No religious sect in modern times advocates such stuff although it was in the not so long ago past.
Most of the posts by Christians on this thread have been anything but Christian with the love and forgiveness described by Jesus. Like Gandhi said, "I like your Jesus, but the Christians, not so much". I feel the same after reading the posts here and having dialogues with some pretty bigoted dark people. I'm sure there are very good people. I know there are, but in this thread most have been dreaming some very dark dreams with a very mean avatar.
My daughter is gay and I raised her through her tough life. She is a very intelligent, thoughtful human being. Her depth and open heart and mind is a wonder for me to see. She is now in a loving relationship. She is teaching me about love. Love. Love and laughter. Love and compassion. Understanding. There is no way that her behavior is sin. It is love.
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HGfromOmaha
A hungry, free man not a well-fed slave .
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11:23 PM on 10/22/2011
You know they're going to lash out at you and say some evil things Lucy......and it's supposed to come from a place of "love".......the same mentality as what they used in boot camp....."The beatings will continue until morale improves"......
Good for you and your daughter. You're supposed to be there for her. That's your child. She is who she is. I believe in God and God doesn't make mistakes. He makes people as they are.
So many people are hung up on the Bible, not knowing where it came from, when it was written, by whom it was written, how the books were selected, and which books were left out. Let's talk about the Gospel of Thomas and how Jesus viewed true salvation. Of course this means nothing to the "scholars" you'll see writing on these pages because they refuse to acknowledge anything they can't understand or regurgitate from memory.
Oh well. I love reading the attacks. These people truly believe their own hype. Arrogant. Prideful. Boastful. Condescending.
Disgusting.
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Lucy0808
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11:47 AM on 10/23/2011
Thank you for posting a gracious and supportive post. A needed "pause or reprieve" on this thread to say the least. It doesn't fix this problem of over the top self-righteousness, but acknowledges the silliness.
Peace be with you.
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Pale Writer
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08:03 PM on 11/08/2011
I am a Christian and if anyone were to attack Lucy on this issue or any other, I would be the first one to draw my sword (metaphorically speaking) and defend her. She is not a Christian. I believe she is Buddhist. So none of this applies to her or her daughter. Everyone deserves to live in peace. Even on a message board. Just because folks engage in discussion, it does not always equate to "attack". Everyone gets a chance to make their stance, get challenged, and defend it. It's called civil discourse. Those who decide to chide and belittle, do not get the opportunity for intelligent dialogue. Most people will not engage them. Sure folks can be arrogant, prideful, boastful and condescending. I have seen my share from Atheists attacking me...but it makes no difference to me. I shake off the dust from my shoes and move on. Disgusting walks on both sides of the street...
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09:38 AM on 11/09/2011
Ref: " ...sins today." Sins are defined as missing the mark of God's will. In Leviticus and Joshua, the Hebrews were told by God to "genocide" neighboring tribes in the Promised Land. How does that coincide with the "Do not kill" commandment? First, understand that God's mission and fulfillment of the promise to Abraham meant that God was going to use the Hebrews to provide His salvation solution. Second, recognize that commandments are not equal. There are priorities (see Matthew 22:36-40). Third, recognize that the neighboring tribes were very influential upon the Hebrews when they remained to influence them in the worship of other "supposed" gods. In most ethical societies today, the loss of many is never outweighed by the loss of few. God, in His omniscience, gave the command to "genocide" neighboring tribes in order to save billions in the future through His salvation solution. All the commands in the Torah were designed to keep the Hebrews unique and separated. Notice that the Hebrews are the only people I'm aware of that have genealogies as deep in this span of time and why both Matthew and Luke traced Jesus' genealogy, at least, back to Abraham. The reason Christians focus on the top two priority commandments over Torah law is twofold: 1) Jesus' priority (see above) and 2) God has provided His salvation solution. However, please note that Jesus said that the law will never go away; it is just tertiary in priority to the two commandments.
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10:05 PM on 10/22/2011
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.
My guess is that if you believe an follow a literal interpretation of the bible something is going "hit the fan" in short order.
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detroitblkmale30
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09:23 AM on 10/25/2011
A literal interpretation of the Bible also includes one where the Bible is read in its proper theological context. When you include the New Covenant.the punishment for what you have written are inapplicable thanks to Jesus.
I wish that people really studied Christianity before they copied and pasted "gotcha" scriptures to promote a false sense of conundrum as well as a completely unrelated support for other actions.
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05:41 AM on 10/26/2011
What you have offered is nothing more than spin without addressing the real problems raised. You claim that "the punishment for what you have written are inapplicable thanks to Jesus," but you didn't address the real problem, when were they ever moral? If the Bible is a moral book, when was it ever moral to put a child to death for cursing his or her parents? When was it ever moral to put people to death for adultery? When was it ever moral to put two gay men to death for being gay? When was it ever moral to put a young girl to death because she didn't remain a virgin before getting married? These are not simply "gotcha" questions, but address a deeper issue, the Bible's commandments are often immoral themselves. Frankly, many more examples could be given illustrating this point. These commandments are not only "inapplicable thanks to Jesus," but immoral in themselves. Furthermore, your notion that they are now "inapplicable thanks to Jesus" is just your personal spin. And if many of the commandments in Hebrew scripture are immoral, who is to say that some of the commandments in the New Testament are not immoral also?
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eric0063
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02:02 PM on 11/08/2011
"My guess is that if you believe an follow a literal interpretation of the bible something is going "hit the fan" in short order. "
Only when you confront people who are determined to live however they please regardless of whether or not there is a God and how that God may want them to live.
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Binea
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02:13 PM on 11/08/2011
salvation isn't dependent on what anyone does. Living right,or uh learning to live right and growing more and more in the knowledge and fear of the Lord,is a "result" of having already been saved,not a means to it.
That said..all men/women are commanded to obey God..and really,who can really, know for sure if they have or have not been saved,when it is all up to God.So..we live and learn and try anyway and hope and pray we are his..if we are not..well it is not somethimg we ever deserved anyway.
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The Conspiracy
God vs. Gay? Really? | The Godblogger
The Conspiracy | October 20, 2011 by John Propper | 8 Comments
The Torah commands us to love our neighbor and treat them compassionately. But it also condemns the act of “man [lying] with man as with a woman.” How do we reconcile Judaism with LGBT issues? Also, what about women “lying” with women? – LB, Florida, U.S.
headshotx100There’s a lot to unpack in this question: what the Torah says, what the Torah has been interpreted as saying – even the assumption that this discussion must be had in the first place deserves some attention. Suffice it to say this probably won’t be the most detailed analysis of the question, but it will be a jumping off point for further study. I’ll try to be as detailed as possible along the way.
Vayikra (Leviticus) 18:22 says, “Do not lie with a man as one does with a woman; it is an abomination.” This passage is widely understood to reference gay sexuality, particularly the act of anal sex. The text doesn’t mention lesbian sex in any form, though if an individual interprets this passage as has been done traditionally, it follows that women would also need to reserve their sex lives for heterosexual intercourse. After all, if men must be with women according to the word of God, then women must also willingly participate in the social heteronormativity.
Underscoring this interpretation of Vayikra is the story of the city Sodom in Bereshit (Genesis) 19:1-11, where two visiting angels are threatened by violent men of the city. These men demand that the angels (who they simply recognize as ordinary men) be sent out to them “so that we may know them” — in essence, to rape them. Spoiler alert: the men are eventually struck with blindness by the power of God through the angels. The city, along with neighbor city Gomorrah, is destroyed by God’s wrath. The passage is often used as a demonstration of the spiritual “blindness” created by engaging in gay or lesbian sex, where LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) persons are compared to animals, rapists, or perverts, like the men of the story.
These are the Torah’s most cited references to homosexuality. Clearly, they’re not among the cheeriest of Torah passages. For years, the discussion about LGBT persons within Judaism (or any religion or public sphere, really) was a slow, mostly hidden process. However, with the current political climate engaging the question of marriage equality, gays and lesbians are beginning to participate openly in their own life journeys, candid about their sexuality. This means that outside the “closet” of never telling anyone about one’s sexual orientation, LGBT persons wish to be treated with equal respect in the workplace, the religious sector, and the political process, as they marry, have children, and simply live alongside everybody else.
However, it is difficult for many to reconcile biblical passages that clearly condemn… well, something… with the knowledge that a brother, a friend, a co-worker—or even a fellow Torah scholar—may be LGBT. As the debate about how inclusive to be in the synagogue rages on, that level of inclusiveness operates on a spectrum, where Orthodoxy is typically less inclusive, and Reform and Reconstructionism are typically the most inclusive. Notice I say “typically” — there are trends in every movement to be more or less accepting of the LGBT Jews in our lives.
One sphere in which this discussion has taken hold is that of Torah scholarship. While much scholarship has acted as a defense of the traditional marriage/sexuality model, scholars like Jay Michaelson, whose earlier work Everything is God explored the concept of unity in Chasidic mysticism, have taken on the cause I like to call “LGBT apologetics.”
Jay Michaelson | Image from jaymichaelson.net
Jay Michaelson | Image from jaymichaelson.net
In Michaelson’s new book, God vs. Gay?: The Religious Case for Equality, he lays out a compelling case. What sets Michaelson’s book aside from other texts published on the subject is that he rarely strays outside the biblical and rabbinic texts themselves to make his argument that, yes, LGBT persons should be free to love and marry their partners. He spends most of his time debunking the myths and stereotypes surrounding sexual orientation, and how many of them are rooted in misinterpretations of our sacred texts.
For example, Michaelson argues that the sin of the people of Sodom wasn’t homosexuality the orientation. It was attempted rape, a crime against human dignity. He cites the prophet Ezekiel, who declared, “Sodom’s sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door” (Ezekiel 16:49). And besides, when a heterosexual rape occurs, it isn’t seen as indicative of the dangers of straight sex. Quite the opposite—rape itself is the abomination, not orientation
Even Vayikra’s condemnation of “lying with man” takes on a different tone when it is seen as a prohibition against ritualized sex, a common practice at the time of the canonization of the Torah. The problem then, Michaelson purports, isn’t that LGBT persons are coming out about their sexuality, or that they express that sexuality. It’s that sexuality itself has been misunderstood almost completely, and that the weight of that misunderstanding has unfortunately fallen on the Torah.
Moreover, Michaelson argues for a sexual ethic that sees the act of two monogamous, consenting adults as inherently holy, which then spirals out and makes sacred the process of discovering one’s own sexuality. In this model, the coming out process becomes an act of Kiddush Hashem, whereby we affirm the goodness of God’s name through our choice to be honest about our sexual orientation, and life-affirming in how we express that orientation. Michaelson is elevating the discussion, making it about far more than “dos and don’ts.” Under his perspective, simply being a sexual being is holy, even if that sexuality is never expressed. To express it, however, is to participate in God’s story, to enjoy God’s gift of love.
God vs. Gay is an excellent resource for those struggling to reconcile their sexual feelings — or those of a loved one — with being a person of devout religious faith. Michaelson never panders, attempts to set aside all biases and simply lets the text speak for itself. What happens when he clears the smoke of punditry and bigotry is a beautiful thing, and the discussion over equality and human diversity is elevated because of Michaelson’s willingness to have faith in the words of the Torah — and in human dignity.
John Wofford is a junior at Aquinas College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is the current editor of an upcoming interfaith arts hub, a Neo-Hasidic nerd and music journalist of five years. His column, The Godblogger, appears here on alternating Thursdays.
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8 Older Responses to “God vs. Gay? Really? | The Godblogger”
David Bloom
October 22, 2011 at 8:27 pm #
Very nice post!
CF
October 24, 2011 at 11:37 am #
In a past worldview where women are property and men are property owners, I’ve understood both passages to mean that a property owner should not treat another property owner as property. A man should not sleep with a man as he sleeps with a woman; that is, he should not penetrate another man, because the ‘only’ people who get penetrated were women, ostensibly without agency or authority over what happens to their own body. (I say ‘only’ because rules are made to discourage or encourage behaviors that already exist.) Lesbian sex doesn’t merit mention under this interpretation, and it also helps explain why rape of males is punishable while offering one’s daughters up for rape is not.
The story of Sodom may have some relevance today, but surely whatever directives exist in either passage regarding homosexuality are moot because women (in most of the world) are not thought of as property the way they once were.
John Wofford
October 24, 2011 at 1:39 pm #
CF–
Excellent points. I didn’t have the space (or time) to go into that specifically, but it’s all very true and worth considering. Thanks for reading!
Rabbi Al
October 24, 2011 at 2:10 pm #
Actually CF is more or less correct. And in fact, Maimonides says pretty clearly that there *is not* a prohibition against lesbian sex, butthat it is licentious, and thus her husband or father must forbid her if she seems to incline that way – only after her husband or father warns her can she be punished – not for the sex, but for disobedience.
How do you like them apples?
But beside all that, there are problems with the usual translation of Leviticus, a more accurate translation of which would be “do not lie with a man the lyings of a woman” – something that is actually a lot less clear, and in fact the rabbis of the talmud understood it to mean that one shouldn’t like with a person who has both sexes. The prohibition against homosexuality, they sy, actually comes from the participle “et”
Rabbi Al
October 24, 2011 at 2:12 pm #
oh, and the sin of Sodom is NOT attempted rape. The rabbis tell us what it is: it is having plenty and refusing to share it with the poor, and not only that but making it a crime for anyone to do so.
John Wofford
October 24, 2011 at 2:40 pm #
Rabbi Al–
I’m assuming that you’re essentially agreeing with me…? I’m a bit confused by your tone, considering that I made at least a couple of those points in the article, and affirmed the rest in the comments section. Sodom’s sin isn’t rape, it is lack of compassion. Either way, I completely agree with CF’s comments, some of which I echo in the article, the rest of which can be found in Michaelson’s book.
Geoff
October 24, 2011 at 3:32 pm #
John this is crazily awesome because I was just having this conversation with someone. My studies in Judaism (including Maimonides), while not rabbinical, have found virtually nothing prohibitive about homosexuality. If out of all the lines in Leviticus, that is the only one to say anything about it then why is it such a big deal? I think that there are two reasons why Jews have problems with homosexuals. First and most basic is that Jews tend to assume that the Torah forbids. It’s almost a gut instinct. Can I have cheese on my burger? No. Can I go out tonight? No it’s Yom Kippur. Can I get this $200 pair of jeans? No. Can I date a girl named Mary O’Shiksa? What, are you trying to kill your mother? Second, is a fear for the culture. Gay people, while as interested in Jewish Culture and procreating it as much as anyone else, can’t actually procreate. This, especially for Holocaust survivors and their children tends to be a problem. Illogical, but a problem because of an emotional issue that is common among parents of gay children. While the religion itself does not create a problem, it is the individual. However, in my experience, Jewish parents tend to be more accepting of their gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender children. This tends to be because Jewish parents are “more liberal.”
John Wofford
October 25, 2011 at 10:15 am #
Geoff–
Fair points, all of them. I think there’s a huge difference in how Jews who don’t accept LGBT persons and Christians who do the same actually think about what they’re doing. For most Jews, it’s exactly the reasons you’re talking about: carrying on the bloodline, assumptions about Torah, etc. For a lot of Christians, it’s more wrapped up in gender questions from “St.” Paul’s epistles, and his heavy focus on gender roles as divinely ordained rather than socially constructed. Also, there’s a trend of fear in Christianity about the loss of one’s masculinity. I’m not sure what it stems from, but it’s pretty prevalent, or at least was in my experiences as a former Christian.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God, gay dichotomy must end
By Jay Michaelson
Published 8:10 pm, Friday, November 11, 2011
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Was there ever a time when things turned out exactly the opposite of how you expected?
Coming out was like that for me. I grew up believing that being gay was about the worst thing in the world. Moreover, as an observant Jew, I thought that coming out would spell the end of my religious life. It was either God or gay, I thought -- but not both.
For 10 years, I chose God. I sublimated my sexuality, repressed it and tried to change it. I tried having relationships with women. None of it worked. Finally after a decade of fighting I switched sides. I chose gay over God.
Then something remarkable -- the opposite of what I'd expected -- happened. It turned out that coming out was the most religious thing I'd ever done. It was the beginning of my spiritual life, not the end of it. In retrospect, this should be obvious. Whatever the spiritual life is, it must be related to honesty, integrity and love. Yet I've noticed that same false dichotomy between religion and sexuality is alive and well among believers and skeptics alike. Just as many right-wing religious voices say that God must be chosen over gay, many left-wing secular gay rights voices say that gay must prevail over God.
Nonsense. What was true for me is true for LGBT people writ large: religion and sexual diversity, God and gay, go together. Not only do the tiny handful of biblical verses often used against gay people (six out of 30,000 in the Bible) not say what some people think they say, hundreds of others demand equality and respect for LGBT people. Religious people should support equality because of religion, not despite it.
Examples? That "it is not good to be alone" (Genesis 2:18) and that, as a result, finding intimate companionship is a sacred religious value. That the essence of the religious life is love (Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 23:38). That to shut off our capacities to love -- as happens in the "closet" -- tears us away from spirituality. That while the science of sexuality is relatively new, religious teaching grows when it adapts to new understandings of how the world is (Numbers 27:1-7, 1 Corinthians 13:11).
These positive teachings are far more important, and numerous, than the negative ones. It's easy to read that handful of verses broadly, so that they ban all same-sex intimacy, or narrowly, so that they apply to hardly anyone at all. For example, Leviticus need only apply to one particular sex act between men, and arguably in the context of idol worship. Not so relevant for most gay people I know.
Coming up with an interpretation of text is the easy part, and many pro-gay and anti-gay ones already exist. The harder part is deciding which interpretation to choose. This requires doing the work of religious conscience, to come to know LGBT people as they are, not as they are feared to be -- and to respond accordingly.
That process can be challenging, especially if someone was raised to believe that homosexuality was an "abomination," as I was. (Abomination, by the way, is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word toevah, which really means taboo. It's the same kind of biblical prohibition as the one against eating shrimp.) But it is also a sacred duty. Imagine if preachers still preached that black people were cursed by God to be slaves. Surely, if we consider ourselves religious, it is a religious duty to question our assumptions.
And when that process unfolds, when we really come to know our gay friends and relatives as people rather than as stereotypes, then the "right" interpretation of those troubling teachings becomes obvious. The liberating reading of Leviticus, Romans, and Corinthians isn't necessarily better or more clever than the anti-gay one. Both are valid, academically speaking. But only the interpretation that promotes love, honesty and compassion is consistent with our fundamental values.
Whether one considers oneself religious or not, the false, hurtful and divisive dichotomy between God and gay must end -- not by choosing one side over the other, but by realizing that the conflict need not arise in the first place. Sexual diversity is part of the beauty of nature, part of God's plan, if indeed there is such a thing. This may not be what some of us were told to believe -- but then, sometimes things turn out to be the opposite of what we expect.
Jay Michaelson is the author, most recently, of "God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality" (Beacon, 2011). He will discuss the book at a program of Advocates for Welcoming Congregations on Wednesday, Nov. 30, at 7 p.m., at First Lutheran Church, 181 Western Ave., Albany. For information, call the Pride Center at 462-6138.
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