lgbt religious jews part 4

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eddy joe
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04:38 PM on 10/20/2011
Nice post. It's good to see the truth .

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Varys
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05:06 PM on 10/20/2011
So, men will behave exactly the same during the "last days" as they have for the last few thousand years?

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GDWhiteman
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06:01 PM on 10/20/2011
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction­, for training in righteousn­ess" - A) that isn't God talking, it's whoever forged 2 Tim under Paul's name B) I don't see anything suggesting limitation to a canon selected by one faction or any time frame for the scripture to have been written. And frankly, I see many of those predicted things happening right now chiefly among the most loudest Bible thumpers.
 Using scripture to infer (false) accusations of others before someone points a finger at the accuser is one of the oldest and sleaziest rhetorical tools of the religions "orthodox". What a pity more folks aren't able to see thru that scam.

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Syllogizer
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06:21 PM on 10/20/2011
It isn't always a scam. That is why people don't "see thru" what you THINK you see through.

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GDWhiteman
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06:30 PM on 10/20/2011
No, not always - but far more often than not.

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eric0063
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06:40 PM on 10/20/2011
What accusation was there? I simply quoted a few verses from 2 Timothy.
 What amazes me, however, is that so many people believe in a 'god' who could not get us his word if he chose to. A god who has no standards of right and wrong higher than what we think is right and wrong. A god who would never want us wise humans to go against our self willed nature. A god who thinks that our personal earthly happiness is the ultimate goal of creation. A god who speaks only to people's hearts without offering any standards for verification. A god who would have no need of purity or personal accountability.
 You may choose to deny the God of the Bible, you can say you believe in Jesus and that He is part of your life, but these don't mix. Jesus believes in the OT scriptures, said it was those scriptures that are written of Him. Jesus doesn't stand apart from the law, He established the law, then asks "why do you call me Lord Lord and don't do what I say?"
 Paul writes in Romans 3: "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin... Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."
 (yes, the law is referring to the OT scriptures, wherein all moral laws are codified)

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GDWhiteman
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07:29 PM on 10/20/2011
"Jesus believes in the OT scriptures" - except, of course, where he directly contradicts them.
 Who knows what the thorn in Paul's side was? All we can tell for certain is that he struggled mightily with what he believed was sins of the flesh. Pretty arrogant of him to make the assumption that everyone's like him. But then "projection" is a well established principle of human psychology when dealing with people we know little or nothing about.
 I have little doubt that those laws against harming others clearly violate loving your neighbor as yourself. However, when it comes to various holiness codes established for a nomadic Iron Age tribal society, I seriously doubt that God gives a hoot one way or the other about much of OT law. I think overboard assumptions are made when it comes to what law Jesus is talking about.

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GDWhiteman
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07:30 PM on 10/20/2011
"Deny the God of the Bible"? Which one? i.e. Which interpretation? With or without a hermeneutic system designed to affirm one flavor of Christianity as "orthodox"? Need I go on? Many choices. Yours is THE correct one? Says who? Don't tell me "the Bible". Others read the same words and come to vastly different conclusions.
 If you feel convicted of sin, do what you must. Those among us who long ago confessed, know we're forgiven, and have moved on to life really don't need you pointing fingers. What WAS that scripture??? Oh, yeah - "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Another scripture where people miss the point (even though it was inserted later - another interesting edit of "God's Word") - everybody gets that they're not supposed to throw stones. What almost everyone misses is that the guy who everyone agrees is qualified to throw stones does not. No statement of belief required. No punishment. Just "Go and sin no more". God's justice is restorative, not punitive.

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eric0063
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07:50 PM on 10/20/2011
I will give you credit for your firmness of belief. A lot of people don't know why they believe what they believe. I don't see you as one of those.
 Clearly we have huge difference in our views of the Bible. Perhaps in time I will come to understand yours better, and perhaps you mine. I am not idle in my study of both the new or old testaments, and the deeper I dig the more convinced I am of it's authenticity and application to us today. I am certainly flawed in many ways of how I understand it, but for me the authorship is always strengthened the deeper I get.
 God's justice is not restorative. His grace and mercy, absolutely. But God's justice can be a fearsome and terrible thing. It is God's justice that sent Jesus to the cross in our stead (I think that is one thing we agree on). Under God's justice we all would stand condemned. His mercy and grace are what draw us to Him, that instills in us a longing to please Him.
 Regarding the casting the first stone event, if you study it closely, Jesus knew it was a trap. They completely violated the rules of the TORH in even bringing her to Jesus. First, where was the man? Second, according the the TORH they had to present 2 witnesses (who were not present). Everything about the event was meant to trap Jesus, he was judging their hypocrisy, not the law.

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GDWhiteman
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08:12 PM on 10/20/2011
It sounds like the notion of restorative justice seems like an oxymoron or paradox to you. You might chew on that a little - like until you see that it only seems paradoxical until your perspective aligns with God.
 We agree that God sent Jesus to the cross. Where we disagree is between "in our stead" and "on our behalf". (that's a punitive perspective vs restorative)
 Yes, the stone thing - he knew it was a trap - and handled it well. But it escapes almost everyone's notice how Jesus acts after all the others are gone. The law says she should be stoned. He's without sin. Jesus fulfills the law without needing punishment.
 Grace: a personal story - I was in a study group with some folks who know my personal history. The workbook for the study asked, "Do you think God's grace is a powerful force? Why?" A couple of folks gave nice, doctrine-correct Christian answers. Then it was my turn. My reply: "Yes. It changed me." Given the groups knowledge of the old me and the new man, that discussion was over. It was as clear to them as it is to me that God's grace is an awesome force indeed.

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GDWhiteman
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08:21 PM on 10/20/2011
I attended a men's breakfast at another church this morning. The guest speaker was Michael Franzese - a former mafia boss from a cosa nostra family. He has an awesome testimony of God's restoration - a very real, raw description of an actual relationship with Christ as a follower. I don't know that he mentioned "belief" much at all and pretty much said to the attendees, "What denomination you are doesn't matter in what we're talking about here." Following and relationship vs belief and religion. Many of the men there are religious. Most if not all would call themselves "believer". It was clear that his story spoke to them. He's living what they claim we desire as Christians. He was a very sinful man, and he's not shy about it. He admits that he's still not perfect, but he's focused on God's will instead of sin. A lot of men in that room would love to trade places with him. I enjoyed it because I am him. Not NY mafia, but my story is very similar in many ways - down to and including the woman he married as my wife is for me. It was like watching myself talk to men who need to learn to admit their sins, accept forgiveness, and plunge into willingness to be transformed.

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GDWhiteman
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08:43 PM on 10/20/2011
This whole thing - it's not about our failures. It's about God's success. Where we've been... it is what it is - first and foremost, not changeable. Confess, receive forgiveness (you'll know you've received it when you quit asking for it over the same old things again and again), and embrace life - abundant life. We're called human beings for a reason - note: we are not "human doings". BE a word holding your truth. Not how do you behave or what you say. Who are you? (when you don't think anyone is watching).

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GDWhiteman
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09:45 PM on 10/20/2011
Does it make any sense to you that allowing transformation to that the desire of your heart aligns with God is all the repudiation of your sin the God requires? When you have let go of your love of a sin and taken God's loving view of him and others, what could be stronger than that? I'm not talking about outward behavior here - I'm talking about the essence of who you are - what you truly desire in your heart of hearts without coercion.

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eric0063
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12:39 PM on 10/21/2011
Search out the word "justice" and in most cases (in both the OT & NT) it implies judgement or vengeance. It can also mean what is right. Jesus set the bar for being right pretty high: looking at a woman with lust is the same as adultery; love your enemies and do good to them; merely calling someone a fool it tantamount to murder. Who can meet those standards? And you want justice?
 You mention letting go of our love of sin and aligning our desire of our hearts with God's. That requires a measurement of what sin is, of what God desires. Feelings can not be the measure, for our old nature is always at war with our new nature. Jeremiah 17:9 says The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?" There must be a firm standard for comparison.
 Everyone believes in something, so we're all believers. But in what do we believe? It is about relationship, but faith also. Belief is an intellectual ascent something is true, faith is the operative trust in that truth. What do you put your faith in is the real issue.
 One last note: When Jesus said he did not judge the woman caught in adultery, what else did he say? "Go and sin no more." Did he really expect her never to fall short again? Or was it a call out of what she wanted into what God desires for us?

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CMR64
u hurt my feeling .
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05:58 AM on 10/21/2011
the whole problem with the above passage is the last sentence...so you are in favor of the death penalty for gays?

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eric0063
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11:41 AM on 10/21/2011
CMR64... short answer is no.
 Longer answer is that since we are not under the law, the penalty of the law is not in force. Does that mean the law against homosexuality is abolished? Or coveting? Or lying? Or stealing? No, the law is there for us today to enable us to illuminate our sin nature, to enable us to discern right from wrong. Or as the last sentence in the passage, it is there for us today to teach us and correct our wrong ways of thinking.
 I am not homophobic, I don't hate homosexuals. Their sin is no worse than my sin. The question is, do we embrace and empower our sin nature? Or do we see it for what it is and strive to live a life that is honoring to God, rather than honoring ourselves and our desires?

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CMR64
u hurt my feeling .
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05:43 AM on 10/25/2011
I am sorry if you subscribe to the belief that homosexuality is a sin and ALL SCRIPTURE is useful to correct and reproof paraphrasing Paul...then you believe that homosexuals are to be stoned. That slaves are to be owned and women should keep their place.
 I embrace my sexuality simply because I love God ..I would never ever tell Him that He was wrong in making me ...

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eric0063
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11:06 AM on 10/25/2011
You miss the point. The Bible says all scripture is useful for correction and reproof. If you believe the Bible that's a very simple straightforward statement. It also says we are not judged (under the penalty) of the law. Good thing too, imagine if we stoned every disobedient child... population control would cease to be an issue.
 Christians are not 'under' the law, but the law still exists to illuminate sin. Here is where many say it's a sin to eat shrimp and wear polyester. Wrong, civil and ceremonial laws were for Judaism. Moral laws were not abolished. The penalty under Judaism is absolved, but not the laws themselves.
 God is not wrong in making any person. But every person is born with a sin nature. Just because we feel something is right, using the argument that this is how God made me can be used to justify any action.
 My 'sexuality' compels me to be an adulterer... no better, no worse, than homosexuality. Because I'm made this way, does that make it right?

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CMR64
u hurt my feeling .
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05:45 PM on 10/25/2011
you can't have it both ways....either you believe what the Bible says ALL scripture or don't ...you are guiltily of picking and choosing as much as homosexuals ....I was born gay you cannot dispute what I experienced based on your presumptions. The issue is the same as it was with slavery ...period...

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Willie12345
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09:28 AM on 10/21/2011
Well said.

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buddha65
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12:44 PM on 10/24/2011
What about us women?

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eric0063
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01:43 PM on 10/24/2011
Being a man myself, I think I gotta admit that women are exempt from much of the male gender's inherent foolishness. But in the context of the above I think it's referring to 'mankind', or in the current vernacular 'humankind'.

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Gay Iberian
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02:10 PM on 10/20/2011
None of the LGBT religious leaders are inspiring . Religion is not an inspiring organization, but rather a dangerous organization with false beliefs and false gods and fraught with corruption, sexual abuses and moral and intellectual oppression.

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iknowscottyknows
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02:34 PM on 10/20/2011
I think you're confusing "Religion" with the DNC.

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el sistema
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04:07 PM on 10/20/2011
The majority of evangelical fundamentalists identify themselves as republicans.

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Syllogizer
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06:22 PM on 10/20/2011
True. But that is not just because of a natural affinity between them, but because the Democrats have gone out of their way to alienate LOTS of Christians, not just "evangelical fundamentalists" with their endorsement of abortion and "gay marriage".

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AdamWest1313
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08:32 PM on 10/20/2011
There are more Christian Democrats then there are Atheist democrats.
 Nice try though.

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Coloradem
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03:13 PM on 10/20/2011
The brush you are painting with is a bit broad. Religion is not a single organization. You should not judge all "religions" based on your personal experience any more than you would judge all caucasian people based on your experience with one caucasian person.

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felliott
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12:52 AM on 10/21/2011
Religions aren't people. They're ideologies. Moreover, religion is not like race since religion is unquestionably a choice and certainly is mutable. Therefore, religious rights should not be subject to the same scrutiny as rights based on immutable characteristics.

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Coloradem
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10:11 AM on 10/21/2011
Perhaps caucasian wasn't the best example. Let's try this: You shouldn't judge all police officers based on an experience you have with one police officer.

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The Conspiracy
God vs. Gay? Really? | The Godblogger
The Conspiracy | October 20, 2011 by John Propper | 8 Comments

The Torah commands us to love our neighbor and treat them compassionately. But it also condemns the act of “man [lying] with man as with a woman.” How do we reconcile Judaism with LGBT issues? Also, what about women “lying” with women? – LB, Florida, U.S.
headshotx100There’s a lot to unpack in this question: what the Torah says, what the Torah has been interpreted as saying – even the assumption that this discussion must be had in the first place deserves some attention. Suffice it to say this probably won’t be the most detailed analysis of the question, but it will be a jumping off point for further study. I’ll try to be as detailed as possible along the way.
Vayikra (Leviticus) 18:22 says, “Do not lie with a man as one does with a woman; it is an abomination.” This passage is widely understood to reference gay sexuality, particularly the act of anal sex. The text doesn’t mention lesbian sex in any form, though if an individual interprets this passage as has been done traditionally, it follows that women would also need to reserve their sex lives for heterosexual intercourse. After all, if men must be with women according to the word of God, then women must also willingly participate in the social heteronormativity.
Underscoring this interpretation of Vayikra is the story of the city Sodom in Bereshit (Genesis) 19:1-11, where two visiting angels are threatened by violent men of the city. These men demand that the angels (who they simply recognize as ordinary men) be sent out to them “so that we may know them” — in essence, to rape them. Spoiler alert: the men are eventually struck with blindness by the power of God through the angels. The city, along with neighbor city Gomorrah, is destroyed by God’s wrath. The passage is often used as a demonstration of the spiritual “blindness” created by engaging in gay or lesbian sex, where LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) persons are compared to animals, rapists, or perverts, like the men of the story.
These are the Torah’s most cited references to homosexuality. Clearly, they’re not among the cheeriest of Torah passages. For years, the discussion about LGBT persons within Judaism (or any religion or public sphere, really) was a slow, mostly hidden process. However, with the current political climate engaging the question of marriage equality, gays and lesbians are beginning to participate openly in their own life journeys, candid about their sexuality. This means that outside the “closet” of never telling anyone about one’s sexual orientation, LGBT persons wish to be treated with equal respect in the workplace, the religious sector, and the political process, as they marry, have children, and simply live alongside everybody else.
However, it is difficult for many to reconcile biblical passages that clearly condemn… well, something… with the knowledge that a brother, a friend, a co-worker—or even a fellow Torah scholar—may be LGBT. As the debate about how inclusive to be in the synagogue rages on, that level of inclusiveness operates on a spectrum, where Orthodoxy is typically less inclusive, and Reform and Reconstructionism are typically the most inclusive. Notice I say “typically” — there are trends in every movement to be more or less accepting of the LGBT Jews in our lives.
One sphere in which this discussion has taken hold is that of Torah scholarship. While much scholarship has acted as a defense of the traditional marriage/sexuality model, scholars like Jay Michaelson, whose earlier work Everything is God explored the concept of unity in Chasidic mysticism, have taken on the cause I like to call “LGBT apologetics.”
Jay Michaelson | Image from jaymichaelson.net
Jay Michaelson | Image from jaymichaelson.net
In Michaelson’s new book, God vs. Gay?: The Religious Case for Equality, he lays out a compelling case. What sets Michaelson’s book aside from other texts published on the subject is that he rarely strays outside the biblical and rabbinic texts themselves to make his argument that, yes, LGBT persons should be free to love and marry their partners. He spends most of his time debunking the myths and stereotypes surrounding sexual orientation, and how many of them are rooted in misinterpretations of our sacred texts.
For example, Michaelson argues that the sin of the people of Sodom wasn’t homosexuality the orientation. It was attempted rape, a crime against human dignity. He cites the prophet Ezekiel, who declared, “Sodom’s sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door” (Ezekiel 16:49). And besides, when a heterosexual rape occurs, it isn’t seen as indicative of the dangers of straight sex. Quite the opposite—rape itself is the abomination, not orientation
Even Vayikra’s condemnation of “lying with man” takes on a different tone when it is seen as a prohibition against ritualized sex, a common practice at the time of the canonization of the Torah. The problem then, Michaelson purports, isn’t that LGBT persons are coming out about their sexuality, or that they express that sexuality. It’s that sexuality itself has been misunderstood almost completely, and that the weight of that misunderstanding has unfortunately fallen on the Torah.
Moreover, Michaelson argues for a sexual ethic that sees the act of two monogamous, consenting adults as inherently holy, which then spirals out and makes sacred the process of discovering one’s own sexuality. In this model, the coming out process becomes an act of Kiddush Hashem, whereby we affirm the goodness of God’s name through our choice to be honest about our sexual orientation, and life-affirming in how we express that orientation. Michaelson is elevating the discussion, making it about far more than “dos and don’ts.” Under his perspective, simply being a sexual being is holy, even if that sexuality is never expressed. To express it, however, is to participate in God’s story, to enjoy God’s gift of love.
God vs. Gay is an excellent resource for those struggling to reconcile their sexual feelings — or those of a loved one — with being a person of devout religious faith. Michaelson never panders, attempts to set aside all biases and simply lets the text speak for itself. What happens when he clears the smoke of punditry and bigotry is a beautiful thing, and the discussion over equality and human diversity is elevated because of Michaelson’s willingness to have faith in the words of the Torah — and in human dignity.
John Wofford is a junior at Aquinas College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is the current editor of an upcoming interfaith arts hub, a Neo-Hasidic nerd and music journalist of five years. His column, The Godblogger, appears here on alternating Thursdays.

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8 Older Responses to “God vs. Gay? Really? | The Godblogger”
 

David Bloom
October 22, 2011 at 8:27 pm # 
 
Very nice post!

  
 

CF
October 24, 2011 at 11:37 am # 
 
In a past worldview where women are property and men are property owners, I’ve understood both passages to mean that a property owner should not treat another property owner as property. A man should not sleep with a man as he sleeps with a woman; that is, he should not penetrate another man, because the ‘only’ people who get penetrated were women, ostensibly without agency or authority over what happens to their own body. (I say ‘only’ because rules are made to discourage or encourage behaviors that already exist.) Lesbian sex doesn’t merit mention under this interpretation, and it also helps explain why rape of males is punishable while offering one’s daughters up for rape is not.
The story of Sodom may have some relevance today, but surely whatever directives exist in either passage regarding homosexuality are moot because women (in most of the world) are not thought of as property the way they once were.

  
 

John Wofford
October 24, 2011 at 1:39 pm # 
 
CF–
Excellent points. I didn’t have the space (or time) to go into that specifically, but it’s all very true and worth considering. Thanks for reading!

  
 

Rabbi Al
October 24, 2011 at 2:10 pm # 
 
Actually CF is more or less correct. And in fact, Maimonides says pretty clearly that there *is not* a prohibition against lesbian sex, butthat it is licentious, and thus her husband or father must forbid her if she seems to incline that way – only after her husband or father warns her can she be punished – not for the sex, but for disobedience.
 How do you like them apples?
 But beside all that, there are problems with the usual translation of Leviticus, a more accurate translation of which would be “do not lie with a man the lyings of a woman” – something that is actually a lot less clear, and in fact the rabbis of the talmud understood it to mean that one shouldn’t like with a person who has both sexes. The prohibition against homosexuality, they sy, actually comes from the participle “et”

  
 

Rabbi Al
October 24, 2011 at 2:12 pm # 
 
oh, and the sin of Sodom is NOT attempted rape. The rabbis tell us what it is: it is having plenty and refusing to share it with the poor, and not only that but making it a crime for anyone to do so.

  
 

John Wofford
October 24, 2011 at 2:40 pm # 
 
Rabbi Al–
I’m assuming that you’re essentially agreeing with me…? I’m a bit confused by your tone, considering that I made at least a couple of those points in the article, and affirmed the rest in the comments section. Sodom’s sin isn’t rape, it is lack of compassion. Either way, I completely agree with CF’s comments, some of which I echo in the article, the rest of which can be found in Michaelson’s book.

  
 

Geoff
October 24, 2011 at 3:32 pm # 
 
John this is crazily awesome because I was just having this conversation with someone. My studies in Judaism (including Maimonides), while not rabbinical, have found virtually nothing prohibitive about homosexuality. If out of all the lines in Leviticus, that is the only one to say anything about it then why is it such a big deal? I think that there are two reasons why Jews have problems with homosexuals. First and most basic is that Jews tend to assume that the Torah forbids. It’s almost a gut instinct. Can I have cheese on my burger? No. Can I go out tonight? No it’s Yom Kippur. Can I get this $200 pair of jeans? No. Can I date a girl named Mary O’Shiksa? What, are you trying to kill your mother? Second, is a fear for the culture. Gay people, while as interested in Jewish Culture and procreating it as much as anyone else, can’t actually procreate. This, especially for Holocaust survivors and their children tends to be a problem. Illogical, but a problem because of an emotional issue that is common among parents of gay children. While the religion itself does not create a problem, it is the individual. However, in my experience, Jewish parents tend to be more accepting of their gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender children. This tends to be because Jewish parents are “more liberal.”

  
 

John Wofford
October 25, 2011 at 10:15 am # 
 
Geoff–
Fair points, all of them. I think there’s a huge difference in how Jews who don’t accept LGBT persons and Christians who do the same actually think about what they’re doing. For most Jews, it’s exactly the reasons you’re talking about: carrying on the bloodline, assumptions about Torah, etc. For a lot of Christians, it’s more wrapped up in gender questions from “St.” Paul’s epistles, and his heavy focus on gender roles as divinely ordained rather than socially constructed. Also, there’s a trend of fear in Christianity about the loss of one’s masculinity. I’m not sure what it stems from, but it’s pretty prevalent, or at least was in my experiences as a former Christian.

  
 

 




 

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God, gay dichotomy must end
 

By Jay Michaelson

Published 8:10 pm, Friday, November 11, 2011
    
 
 
 
 

 
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Was there ever a time when things turned out exactly the opposite of how you expected?
Coming out was like that for me. I grew up believing that being gay was about the worst thing in the world. Moreover, as an observant Jew, I thought that coming out would spell the end of my religious life. It was either God or gay, I thought -- but not both.
For 10 years, I chose God. I sublimated my sexuality, repressed it and tried to change it. I tried having relationships with women. None of it worked. Finally after a decade of fighting I switched sides. I chose gay over God.
Then something remarkable -- the opposite of what I'd expected -- happened. It turned out that coming out was the most religious thing I'd ever done. It was the beginning of my spiritual life, not the end of it. In retrospect, this should be obvious. Whatever the spiritual life is, it must be related to honesty, integrity and love. Yet I've noticed that same false dichotomy between religion and sexuality is alive and well among believers and skeptics alike. Just as many right-wing religious voices say that God must be chosen over gay, many left-wing secular gay rights voices say that gay must prevail over God.
Nonsense. What was true for me is true for LGBT people writ large: religion and sexual diversity, God and gay, go together. Not only do the tiny handful of biblical verses often used against gay people (six out of 30,000 in the Bible) not say what some people think they say, hundreds of others demand equality and respect for LGBT people. Religious people should support equality because of religion, not despite it.
Examples? That "it is not good to be alone" (Genesis 2:18) and that, as a result, finding intimate companionship is a sacred religious value. That the essence of the religious life is love (Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 23:38). That to shut off our capacities to love -- as happens in the "closet" -- tears us away from spirituality. That while the science of sexuality is relatively new, religious teaching grows when it adapts to new understandings of how the world is (Numbers 27:1-7, 1 Corinthians 13:11).
These positive teachings are far more important, and numerous, than the negative ones. It's easy to read that handful of verses broadly, so that they ban all same-sex intimacy, or narrowly, so that they apply to hardly anyone at all. For example, Leviticus need only apply to one particular sex act between men, and arguably in the context of idol worship. Not so relevant for most gay people I know.
Coming up with an interpretation of text is the easy part, and many pro-gay and anti-gay ones already exist. The harder part is deciding which interpretation to choose. This requires doing the work of religious conscience, to come to know LGBT people as they are, not as they are feared to be -- and to respond accordingly.
That process can be challenging, especially if someone was raised to believe that homosexuality was an "abomination," as I was. (Abomination, by the way, is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word toevah, which really means taboo. It's the same kind of biblical prohibition as the one against eating shrimp.) But it is also a sacred duty. Imagine if preachers still preached that black people were cursed by God to be slaves. Surely, if we consider ourselves religious, it is a religious duty to question our assumptions.
And when that process unfolds, when we really come to know our gay friends and relatives as people rather than as stereotypes, then the "right" interpretation of those troubling teachings becomes obvious. The liberating reading of Leviticus, Romans, and Corinthians isn't necessarily better or more clever than the anti-gay one. Both are valid, academically speaking. But only the interpretation that promotes love, honesty and compassion is consistent with our fundamental values.
Whether one considers oneself religious or not, the false, hurtful and divisive dichotomy between God and gay must end -- not by choosing one side over the other, but by realizing that the conflict need not arise in the first place. Sexual diversity is part of the beauty of nature, part of God's plan, if indeed there is such a thing. This may not be what some of us were told to believe -- but then, sometimes things turn out to be the opposite of what we expect.
Jay Michaelson is the author, most recently, of "God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality" (Beacon, 2011). He will discuss the book at a program of Advocates for Welcoming Congregations on Wednesday, Nov. 30, at 7 p.m., at First Lutheran Church, 181 Western Ave., Albany. For information, call the Pride Center at 462-6138.
    
 
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When The Huffington Post first published my article "Once Upon a Gay: A Jewish Journey Through the Ex-Gay Movement," I was amazed to receive an outpouring of response: from Orthodox Jewish girls thanking me for not marrying them ("I was one of the girls you interviewed in a Manhattan hotel!"), to old ex-gay friends laughing how I "ruined the code language" of "Eskimos," and, most importantly, from religious men and women of all faiths -- some who have reconciled their faith and sexuality, but many who are still struggling.
However, I was saddened to also learn about a top-secret Declaration currently being passed confidentially among Orthodox Jewish rabbis, entitled, "Torah Declaration, Petition, re: The Torah Stance on Homosexuality" (located in full below).
Like all communities, the Orthodox Jewish one is comprised of many layers. In July 2010, Modern Orthodox rabbis around the country signed a groundbreaking Statement of Principles in "regard to the place of Jews with a homosexual orientation" in their community. While clearly stating that the parameters of Halacha (Jewish Law) prohibit same-sex sexual intercourse, the Principles still offered a message of compassion, empathy and inclusiveness of gay and lesbian Jews within the Orthodox community. It was a huge step forward for the Jewish community.
However, many ultra-Orthodox leaders felt that these Principles were too affirming of homosexuality. So this Declaration currently making rounds will serve as their official response in regards to guiding individuals with same-sex attractions. The endorser, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, of the Talmudical Yeshiva of Philadelphia, urges all rabbis and mental health professionals to sign this Declaration, which offers modification and healing through reparative therapy as the sole option.
The full text of this secret Declaration, which has not been released to the public -- until now -- is posted below. I am releasing it here because I am certain that despite the signatures already included, plenty of other ultra-Orthodox rabbis will disagree. More importantly, this Declaration -- and these rabbis endorsing it -- will certainly cause anguish to the gay and lesbian Orthodox Jewish community, which has fought so hard for acceptance. Finally, I am certain that if reparative therapy is presented as the sole option, many individuals seeking guidance from rabbis or mental health professionals will be harmed -- indirectly by others, and perhaps even directly by harming themselves.
Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who is the author of Judaism and Homosexuality: An Authentic Orthodox View, has said, "I am not obligated to believe in a failed therapy because it fits my theology better." My call to action within the Jewish community as a whole, and specifically to the ultra-orthodox community, is to speak to your rabbis and leaders and demand that they ensure that licensed mental health professionals and psychological associations are involved in the discussion of treating individuals struggling with their same-sex attractions. Ultra-Orthodox leaders can contact gay Orthodox Jewish groups such as Eshel, GLYDSA, and Jewish Queer Youth (JQY's It Gets Better video has already received over 70,000 views) to hear their stories and be advised on the possible impact of this Declaration.
The Declaration cites the biblical prohibition in Leviticus 19:14: "and you shall not place a stumbling block before the blind." This verse is used in the Declaration to conclude that the "Torah does not forbid something which is impossible to avoid," meaning that God would not give His people, "the blind," the "stumbling block" of same-sex attractions. I urge the Orthodox Jewish leaders who review this document to see that signing this Declaration will be putting a stumbling block in the way of many gay and lesbian Orthodox Jews suffering throughout our world. Please, take action, for the Talmud (Sanhedrin 37a) states, "Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."
Read the full copy of the Declaration and related documents:
Introduction and Purpose on the Torah Declaration on Homosexuality

Declaration on the Torah Approach to Homosexuality

7 Frequently Asked Questions on the Torah Declaration

Rabbi S Kamenetsky Signature





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FAQ –Frequently Asked Questions on the Torah Declaration
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question#1:
How do we know that G-d did not create someonewith a homosexual orientation that can not be changed?
Question #2 -
What about individuals who claim that they have sincerely tried to heal through reparative therapy but were unsuccessful?
Question#3:
Why is
teshuvah
necessary? What if a person never acted on his desires?
Question #4
-Why don’t we hear more from people who have successfully gone through the process of reparative therapy?
Question #5
-If people are not born homosexual, what is the cause of their homosexual inclinations?
Question #6 -
There are some that claim that the Torah only prohibits one homosexual act and that everything else is permitted. Is this true?
Question #7
-Why should Jewish people care about homosexual issues such as gay marriage for non-Jews? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question#1:
It states in the Declaration, “The concept that G-d created a human being who is unable to find happiness in a loving relationship unless he violates a biblical prohibition is neither plausible nor acceptable. [Difficult struggles are part of this world, but]…Impossible, life long, Torah prohibited situations with no achievable solutions are not.” How can you know for sure what G-d’s plan is for someone? People have all kinds of difficult lifelong struggles, how can you be sure that being an “unchangeable” homosexual is not part of G-d’s plan? Perhaps Hashem wants such a person to have a difficult life and nevertheless obey His commandments and stay celibate his entire life? How do you know that this is not one of the many difficult
nisoyens
(trials) that G-d sets out for people?
Answer#1:
This is a very crucial question because it touches upon our core understanding of Hashem’s relationship with us. It also brings up the question of how much we can actually understand about suffering in this world.  In order to have clarity on this issue we have to define the kinds of suffering we are talking about and break them into separate categories.Let us start with two categories: #1
–Difficult situations where there is no desire that would violate Torah law, even if one falters due to his or her difficult circumstances.
#2
-Difficult situations where if one falters there is a direct Torah violation.Examples of
situation #1
would be someone who was born blind, without a leg or perhaps has cancer (
Hashem yerachim
). Those are truly tragic and difficult circumstances that can affect a person’s entire life and greatly limit some of the things that many of us take for granted. However, as difficult as such a life may be, there is no inconsistency with living a Torah lifestyle. In fact there are special dispensations within halacha to deal with the blind, disabilities and the terminallyill that take into account their circumstances and to guide them halachicly. In these situations there is no question of a compulsion to violate Biblicallyprohibited law.  All the special circumstances are dealt with in a halachic framework. (I.E. doing a
melacha
(prohibited work) on Shabbos for a person with a medical emergency is not a Torah violation but rather a mitzvah, etc.)
Situation #2
would encompass someone born with a nature that will only be satisfied by committing a Biblically forbidden act.  That could be someone born with an unchangeablemurderous bloodthirsty nature or hypothetically if we say a person is born homosexual and can not change, then in both situations the person seemingly can ONLY find satisfaction by violating a Biblical prohibition.We know this to be factually not possible based on the following
Gemaras
:
T.B. Avoda Zora 3a.
  “Because the Holy One, blessed be He, does not deal imperiously with His creatures.”  The
Gemara
explains that Hashem does not play cruel tricks on His creatures and create impossible situations that would cause Torah violations.
The Chofetz Chaim
uses this
Gemara
as an example why someone can not say that their desire for loshen hora is so strong that it can not be overcome. Hashem does not create impossible Torah situations that lead to violations.So how do we explain someone who was born with a bloodthirsty nature? How is that not a cruel trick being played on a person? The following
Gemara
explains how that works:
T.B. Shabbos 156a
If one was born under Mazal Mars, he will spill blood;
Rav Ashi:
He will be a bloodletter, bandit, slaughterer or Mohel. (He can channel his disposition for something neutral, for
Aveiros
,(negative)or for
Mitzvos
(positive).)“
The Vilna Gaon
in Even Shelaima 1:7,building on T.B. Shabbat 156a, implies that every [inborn] drive has some form of outlet thatis acceptable within Torah.”
[This Vilna Gaon quote is from Nishma.org]The following is a direct quote from a public letter written on July 4
th
2008 by            
Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky
regarding homosexuality:
“Our Sages teach us that every human being is capable of changing for the better. Those who make the false claim that human beings cannot change their tendencies are comparing them to animals. Indeed it may be very difficult to change one’s nature, but it is definitely possible if one so desires.”
From these sources we see that situation #2, where someone is born with an inborn unchangeable drive to violate Biblical law is not possible.  Hashem does not play tricks by saying something is forbidden, and then creatingpeople with a drive that only can be expressed with what He has forbidden to them.  However, other struggles like situation #1 are possible and do not cause impossible Torah situations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question #2 -
Can everyone change their homosexual inclinations?What about individuals who claim that they have sincerely tried to heal through reparative therapy but were unsuccessful?
Answer#2:
Not everyone succeeds with their current therapy, but everyone is
capable
of healing.  This statement is true for most struggles that humans deal with. Whether it is drug or alcohol addiction, weight loss, anorexia, depression or any other human struggle.  There will always be individualswho don’t succeed with their therapy, but it’s not because they are not capable of healing, rather they may just not be in the right space to achieve healing yet. For some it requires hitting rock bottom to be in that space. For others they may just not have yet been in a space to release certain blocks. This is not about blame in any way, but rather the reality of why some people succeed and some people don’t.  The fact that a person has not yet achieved healing, even after major effort, is not proof that they can’teventually achieve healing, or that they should stop trying.For example there is one individual who was 100 pounds overweight for most of his life. He struggled for 40 years with diets but was never able to successfully keep any weight loss beyond a short period of time. Then at 50 he finally lost the 100 pounds and 10 years later he has still kept the weight off. This individual sincerely wanted to lose weight all his life. His not succeeding for 40 years does not mean he is not capable of success. Itmeans that he was not in the right emotional/mental space to fully deal with the blocks that he had that were preventing success.Each of these situations are unique and may be different than Same-Sex Attraction (SSA). However, all issues that require healing or therapy have in common that many people succeed in achieving their goals and others don’t. To bring it back to SSA, one person struggled through therapy for SSA for seven years before achieving success.  Can he have said after 5 years of major struggle that he is one of those individuals who can never change? At what point can we say that a person can’t deal with SSA successfully and should give up therapy?  Perhaps an extended break is warranted or trying different techniques, but how can we tell the world that it is okay for some people to give up trying? How can there be any other message than
everyone
is
capable
of healing?When it comes to homosexuality from a Torah perspective there is no other option other than healing. The Torah commands us to seek health and wellness and to repair, refine and elevate any aspect of ourselves that conflict with the Torah.  For some it may be a short term struggle, for others a longer term struggle. Either way no one is exempt from continuously striving for healing and living a kosher Torah lifestyle.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question#3:
The Declaration states that the process of healing is therapy and
teshuvah
. However, someone who has same-sex attractions but has never acted on it has done nothing wrong. Doesn’t including
teshuvah
imply that he has done something wrong, just by having those feelings?
Answer#3:
The Declaration is very sensitive to this concern and specifically worded it very carefully.  The main focus in the declaration of the concept of
teshuvah
is as a holistic process of reintegration.  Within the concept of
teshuvah
it is a two part process. The first as it states is, “turning away from
any
transgression or sin.” If someone has committed a transgression then the first step is to stop that activity. If someone has not committed any transgressions then this part does not apply to him at all. The second and most crucial part of teshuva is healing as the document states about the process of
teshuvah
, “This includes refining and reintegrating the personality and allowing it to grow in a healthy and wholesome manner.”
Teshuvah
is about a process of returning to ones true self and that is what is emphasized in the declaration. This applies to anyone who has same-sex attractions, regardless if they have acted upon it or not.This fits well with Rabbi Yosef Serebryanski’s explanation of the roots of
Teshuvah
:
“The word T’shuvah is composed of two words, “Tashuv” and the letter “Hey”. This means returning to Hashem. It has nothing to do with negative or bad, it is simply each person restoring their open connection and flow directly with Hashem -the source of all life and existence.”
We asked over twenty individuals who have struggled with this issue how they feel about the “Process of healing” paragraph and not one had an issue with it. They understood that this is not about “blame” but rather about a process of personal reintegration and returning to one’s true nature.In fact in the final section we specifically stressed that someone struggling with this is an “innocent victim.” As the Declaration states, “The key point to remember is that these individuals are primarily innocent victims of childhood emotional wounds.”------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question #4
-Why don’t we hear more from people who have successfullygone through the process ofreparative therapy?
Answer #4
-In theTorah Observant world there is a whole network of frum individuals who have gone through reparative therapy and have overcome their same-sex attractions. Many of these brave individuals are now married with their wives full knowledge and support and are upstanding members of
Klal Yisrael
living lives filled with
kedusha
and consistent with the Torah. These individuals are just like everyone else. Why would they want to publicize a difficult and private struggle in their lives?  Despite this, many of these brave souls know how important it is to bring awareness to this subject and are willing to privately sharetheir personal struggles, the healing and therapeutic techniques and the joy and equanimity that successful change has brought to their lives.  They have agreed to speak privately with anyone who is either struggling themselveswith this issue or with a Rabbi, teacher, or community leader who needs more information about this issue.If you fit into either of these two categories and would like to speak to someone who has successfully overcome their SSA, please email us with your specific situation and we can have someone contact you to discuss it further. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question #5
-If people are not born homosexual, what is the cause of their homosexual inclinations?
Answer #5 -
The Gemara in Nedarim 51a states that
To’eivah
(abomination)translates as
To'eh attah bah
–you are mistakenor being misledwith this(in our case with homosexual inclination). The most widely accepted theory, among those with the most experience in helping individuals heal, as to the root cause of homosexuality is that something has gone awry in childhood development.  There are many possibilities and combinations of factors that may lead to same sex attraction. From emotional or sexual abuse, to having a sensitive nature while not being able to properly bond with a father figure or male peers. There may be other issues as well, but the underlying factor is that this developmental deficiency with male bonding may manifest in a desire to connect with males in an inappropriate sexualized way.  One of the standard lines from homosexual activists is that they would never choose this voluntarily. They are correct in the sense that it was not a conscience choice to develop same sex attractions, but it is a conscience choice whether one chooses to heal from the underlying issue.  No one consciously chooses to be overweight, but it is a choice and a possibilityto lose weight and to deal with the emotional factors that lead to overeating.  Just because one does not consciously choose a struggle or difficulty, does not mean that one can’t choose to heal from it. For more information you can watch this excellent16 minute video that gives a detailed and easy to understand explanation of some of the root causes of homosexuality and how it develops in childhood.www.Homosexuality101.com
--------------------------------------------------------
Question #6 -
There are some that claim that the Torah only prohibits one homosexual act and that everything else is permitted. Is this true?
Answer #6 -
According to the Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch prohibited homosexual activity includes any non-platonic physical contact; even yichud (seclusion) with someone of the same gender is forbidden for homosexually active individuals.Rambam Hilchos Isurei Biah 21:1,2; 22:1,2. See also Shulchan Aruch Even HoEzer 24
(Info from TorahWeb.org)
----------------------------------------------------------
Question #7
-Why should Jewish people care about homosexual issues such as gay marriage for non-Jews?
Answer #7
-Homosexuality is forbidden for all people, including non-Jews, by the Seven Noahide Laws. The Rambam (Maimonides) is explicit that the prohibition of sexual immorality in the Noahide laws specifically includes homosexuality.
Rambam, Mishneh Torah, in Sefer Shoftim, Hilkhoth Melakhim u'Milhamotheihem 9:7-11
9:7 –“There are six types of sexual acts forbiddento a ben Noah: Intercourse with one's mother, with one's father's wife (who is not one's mother, i.e.: step mother), with another man's wife, with one's sister who has the same mother, with another male, with an animal…”Another Torah source that explicitly mentions homosexual marriage is the Midrash Rabba which states that homosexual marriage was the ‘straw that broke the camels back’ and brought the Great Flood to the world:“Rabbi Huna said in the name of Rebbi: The generation of the flood were not wiped out from the world until [men] were writing marriage contracts to males and to beasts.”(Midrash Rabba Breishis 26:5)-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
   
 
        






 
  

 

   

 



 



 







  
 
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Our national conversation about equality for LGBT people can often be, well, nasty. Opponents of "gay rights" routinely compare us to perverts, accuse us of horrible things, and deny our very existence. Meanwhile, to many religious people, gay folks really do threaten their understanding of the proper relationship of religion and society, morality and social order. It can be painful on both sides.
Yet I want to suggest that this debate is good for us as a society, and good for religion, specifically. As more religious communities, especially conservative ones, recognize the existence and humanity of LGBT people, they are forced to engage in the sort of critical thought and introspection that makes religion worthwhile in the first place. This is a good thing.
We grow as religious people through an unlikely combination of courage and humility. It takes courage to question one's opinions, and humility to recognize that we may not be as right as we thought. As St. Paul says in I Corinthians 13:11, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." We're not meant, religiously speaking, to remain as ethical babies. We're called to something more than that.
All of us who make religion or spirituality part of our lives are accustomed to the process of introspection. Whether we attend confession, or review our lives as part of the annual cycle of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, or have heart-to-heart conversations with Christ, or enter periods of contemplation and discernment when we try to understand what course of action is the right one, or engage in any number of other procedures of self-examination and review, those of us involved in religious communities or spiritual practice are invited, time and again, to look inward.
We are even asked to reflect on our reflection. After all, introspection is not entirely interior in nature. Our hearts and minds are informed, saturated, even, by the values we learn from our sacred traditions and the world around us. We all know this to be true, which is one reason so many believers choose to separate themselves from the world at large. But do we acknowledge the depth to which it is true? Even on a gut, instinctual level, our very hearts and minds are shaped by assumptions and judgments that may be so familiar that they pass unnoticed. And these assumptions are culturally determined: show a picture of a dog to someone born into a Western society, and they may think "pet," and possibly feel affection. Show the same picture to someone born into some traditional Asian societies, and they think "food," and feel hungry.
Notwithstanding all the common-sense advice to "trust your gut," really, our guts are not trustworthy at all and must instead be tempered by love and reason. All animals have gut reactions, after all. But only humans (and perhaps a few others, in more limited ways) are able to reason beyond them. The "gut" may contain intuition and wisdom, but it's not the sum total of humanity. We are blessed with the ability to rise beyond our gut reactions -- as some religious traditions put it, we have sparks of God within us. (Or, as some neuroscientists put it, we have pre-frontal cortexes that can mediate the impulses of the amygdala.) And we all know from experience that we can feel something in our gut and still be wrong. The process of educating the moral conscience, of growing up religiously and ethically, is, in large part, the process of applying love and reason to what we think we already knew. Love teaches us how to think justly.
This is how moral progress takes place, I think. We learn to stop trusting the gut reactions based on falsehoods we've been taught. And it is one of the gifts that our national wrestling with the question of equality for LGBT people gives to each of us. It is an invitation to be uncomfortable, because discomfort is a sign of growth; it's a sign that you've reached your learning edge, where assumptions may be challenged and difficult lessons may be learned.
Let me share a bit of my personal story for a moment. I was raised to believe that being gay was about the worst thing in the world. Before I even knew what a "faggot" was, I knew I didn't want to be one, because it was what you called kids you wanted to degrade -- "Gay Jay" was the one name that I'd try to beat someone up over. Eventually, I learned what these words meant, and, years later, that they did in fact apply to me. My first response? Horror, terror, hatred, denial. I postponed coming out, for fear that it would end my religious life and alienate everyone I knew. I tried desperately to evade the truth myself. And why? Because I felt in my deepest guts that this way of intimate relation was wrong, disgusting, depraved.
Thanks to years of love, activism, therapy, and, above all, meeting hundreds of people who have shown the stereotypes I learned as a child to be wrong, I no longer feel this way. And yet I meet people in my work who are right back at square one, still repulsed by their own sexuality. And I meet devoutly religious people who, indeed, feel that revulsion deep inside... in their kishkes, their guts. It's easy to condemn right-wing loons as ignorant bigots -- but really, how different is what they feel from what I myself felt? I understand their hatred, because I once felt it myself.
And the journey has a way of continuing. One may be comfortable with some gay men, but not with "effeminate" gay men. With lesbians, but not "butch" lesbians. Or not with transgender people. Or not with people who reject the gender binary and locate themselves somewhere in the middle of a gender continuum. And so on. Rather than see this as an unending litany of PC requirements, I want to invite an attitude of joy that there are always assumptions in need of being defeated. Yom Kippur may come but once a year, and confession once a week -- but every encounter with an "other" is an occasion for growth and renewal.
In other words, feeling uncomfortable is a sign that you're where you need to be: working through your "stuff."
Imagine if you didn't do that. In past decades, our country kept racist laws on the books because privileged white people like me felt the rightness of them in our guts. But guts should never be the end of a moral conversation. If religion has taught us anything, it is that there is a moral value in transcending our baser instincts -- and that includes the snap judgments all of us make all the time. At first, and maybe for a while, these corrections along the course of moral conscience may not "feel right." But they are the defining marks of our humanity. Discomfort can be a good sign not just for the individual, but also for entire communities and societies.
I have seen this process unfold hundreds of times regarding LGBT issues. The organization PFLAG, for example -- Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays -- is largely made up of folks who have traveled this journey, from rejection to acceptance to embrace. These are ordinary people, not gay activists and not gay themselves, who once had strongly anti-gay views, for whatever reason, but who were forced to reexamine those views when people they loved came out as gay or lesbian.
This journey is a painful one, but it is also crucial. It is the unfolding of the moral conscience, and it is, in my opinion, humanity at its very best. We should be grateful for it.

 
 
 

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Forward Forum

You Can't Pray the Gay Away
'Reparative Therapy' for Gays is Bad Science, Bad Religion
By Jay Michaelson
Published February 24, 2012, issue of March 02, 2012.
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‘Reparative therapy” for gays and lesbians, which attempts to “change” sexual orientation and is neither reparative nor therapy, is the last gasp of bad theology.

Not Going To Change: You can’t ‘pray the gay away,’ Jay Michaelson writes.
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Not Going To Change: You can’t ‘pray the gay away,’ Jay Michaelson writes.
It exists to solve a theological crisis. On the one hand, Jews are told that God loves us and that “it is not good… to be alone.” (Genesis 2:18) On the other hand, the longstanding over-application of two verses in Leviticus condemns thousands of Jews to a life of deceit, self-loathing and aloneness.
In response to this crisis, the vast majority of American Jews have chosen to read the verses more narrowly. On their face, and as understood by Rashi, these verses apply to only one sexual act between men. They exist in the context of prohibitions against idolatry, from a specific historical time. So there is no reason to read them so broadly as to harm hundreds of thousands of gay and lesbian Jews. To do so may have made sense before we understood human sexuality — but it doesn’t anymore.
Some Jews, however, are still trying to save the old, overbroad interpretation. They do this by maintaining, despite the evidence, that there are no gay and lesbian Jews at all. We are simply engaging in homosexual acts, and our choice or propensity to do so is changeable.
This view has been discredited by the scientific community and by the lives of countless gay men and lesbians. But it has resurfaced in the rightward flank of the Orthodox movement: in a “Torah Declaration on Homosexuality,” signed in January by a number of Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox rabbis, and in a recent op-ed in these pages, by Avi Shafran of Agudath Israel.
This view is overtly a response to the theological crisis stated above. As the Torah Declaration states, “The concept that G-d created a human being who is unable to find happiness in a loving relationship unless he violates a biblical prohibition is neither plausible nor acceptable.”
Unfortunately, it is also demonstrably false. And like the medieval Catholic Church desperately defending the view that the sun revolves around the Earth, rabbis spouting bad science make religion look foolish. Worse, they cause very real abuse suffered by very real people.
Here are facts: Homosexuality is a trait. Due, like most traits, to a combination of nature and nurture, it is basically unchangeable. There is indeed evidence that, as the pop song has it, we are “born this way”: Neuroscientist Simon LeVey’s 2010 book “Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why,” for example, discusses studies showing how the hypothalamus — the region of the brain most responsible for sexual behavior — is different in gay men and straight men, with gay men’s more closely resembling that of women.
But apart from neuroscience, LGBT people are people. There are millions of us, and we are capable of understanding and communicating our own experience. And we are reporting that sexuality is a trait, part of our souls, and something to celebrate and affirm — that it’s a gift and not a predicament. Are all of us really so deluded that our testimony cannot be taken seriously?
(Incidentally, that some people experience their sexuality as fluid, and not reducible to a simple gay/straight binary, does not change the experience of the rest of us.)
We also know that “reparative therapy” is fruitless. Exodus International, the Christian “ex-gay” organization, has never released statistics showing its success rates, obviously because the rates are abysmal. Indeed, many of the founders of Exodus itself are now leading proudly gay lives and disavowing their previous ideas.
In fact, recent Exodus literature has given up on the notion that sexual orientation can be changed. Really, they say, the best that one can hope for — and the kind of “success” Shafran speaks of — is that men can “function sexually” with women, hopefully with only a few relapses.
Is this really “success”? A gay man fantasizing about other men while he “functions sexually” with his wife? I wonder if anyone has asked his wife.
But, of course, the real story is even worse, because “reparative therapy” is not merely fruitless; it is harmful. For every isolated “success” story, there are hundreds of horror stories. As the director of Nehirim, a national LGBT Jewish organization, I have met many young men who suffered through sexual abuse at the hands of unlicensed “therapists.” I have met others who were clearly traumatized by the brainwashing that such people put them through. One even had to strip naked and touch his genitals in the presence of a supposedly ex-gay “life coach.” Do you think well-meaning parents would send their children to such places if they knew what was in store for them?
For this reason, rabbis and Jewish leaders like Shafran have a responsibility to objectively investigate the validity of “reparative therapy” and offer informed advice, unclouded by a theological wish that the scientific data were otherwise.
This is why I applaud the recent decision by the (Orthodox) Rabbinical Council of America not to allow a Jewish “reparative therapy” organization — headed by an ex-felon, incidentally, and with no medical or psychiatric professionals on staff — to carry their endorsement. It’s an intellectually respectable and important first step.
To maintain that this abusive, fraudulent sham might conceivably be a good idea is to put a stumbling block in front of unknowing but well-meaning parents. This is why those of us concerned with the psychological, spiritual and physical well-being of klal yisrael have objected so loudly to anyone who endorses it. Because real lives are at stake.
We say this not because of our cultural perspective, nor even our perspective on Torah. Rather, we say it because of the scientific facts and the psychological realities, and because of the many people we know who have been harmed. There is a reason, as Shafran admits, that no “mainstream medical professionals” advocate praying away the gay. It doesn’t help, and usually harms. To pretend that there is any real controversy about this because of a handful of unnamed, uncredentialed “others” is dishonest, even if it solves a theological problem.
It also makes Judaism look ignorant and backward. Ironically, the “Herculean” efforts to read those two Torah verses narrowly — decried by Shafran and the Torah Declaration — are far more likely to maintain the beauty of the Jewish way of life than tortured efforts to hitch theology to pseudoscience.
Eventually, the folly of “reparative therapy” will be as obvious as that of Galileo’s persecutors. But in the meantime, we cannot allow even one more parent to unwittingly send a child to be abused. The price of bad theology must not be paid by innocent young adults.
Jay Michaelson is the author, most recently, of “God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality” (Beacon, 2011).

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truth1978   · 85 weeks ago

So one might say, very well -- Michaelson and Orthodox Jews don't see eye to eye, so live and let live. Not so fast, says Michaelson. You see, "Some Jews, however, are still trying to save the old, overbroad interpretation." That would be us, the Orthodox Jews. So just like that, in one fell swoop, Michaelson informs us that our millennia-old tradition of biblical interpretation is "old" and "overbroad". Got that, you moldy Ortho-discriminators? You'd better change the way you interpret Torah, or else. Says commenter "marjemkalter": we "are on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of moral law". Sounds pretty sinister, doesn't it? In Canada, preachers can already be fined or jailed for stating their faith-based stance on homosexuality. How long before that comes to the US?

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truth1978   · 85 weeks ago

Let's put the Michaelson article in perspective. This is not an appeal to "live and let live" -- homosexuals already enjoy the complete liberty to live openly as they choose. They are receiving the insurance benefits of married couples and we're on an inevitable social trend to grant them full recognition of "marriage". Michaelson is not speaking on behalf of a beleaguered, persecuted group -- but rather is a tentacle of a powerful and wealthy lobby.
Being a professional writer, Michaelson is well-versed in the art of manipulation. Just look at the titles:
"You Can't Pray the Gay Away" and "Gays Are Born That Way, Just as Jewish as Anyone Else" -- superb strawmen, both. Praying the gay away is something some Christian groups might engage in, but the Jewish group JONAH emphatically declares that this does not work (has Michaelson even bothered to look at their page and read their statements?). And as for "Just as Jewish as Anyone Else" -- is anyone claiming that a person with same-sex attractions (or even one who acts on them) is somehow not Jewish?
To summarize so far: Michaelson uses the dishonest tactic of suggesting that the Jewish group JONAH tries to
"pray the gay away" (which is false and also makes it sound like one of the Christian groups -- well done!), and also suggests that the Orthodox Jews who maintain the traditional Rabbinical interpretation of bibilical prohibitions of homosexual behavior are somehow denying that homosexuals are Jews. Not bad for the first two lines!
Then there is the usual tired claim of "abuse" at the hand of the JONAH therapists. A total of two men have spoken in public about their bad experience with JONAH counselors. Where are these "hundreds of horror stories"? Also, with all this talk of rationality and "science" -- given an obviously troubled man such as Chaim Levin, how can you tell which of his problems are due to JONAH and which are due to other factors such as childhood abuse? Mind passing over the crystal ball? And what about even a symbolic, off-handed mention of the one or two men who say they have benefitted from JONAH (hundreds, in reality)? This is the closest the article comes to that admission: "Incidentally, that some people experience their sexuality as fluid, and not reducible to a simple gay/straight binary, does not change the experience of the rest of us".

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1 reply  · active 85 weeks ago

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truth1978   · 85 weeks ago

Has Michaelson changed the second title from "Gays Are Born That Way, Just as Jewish as Anyone Else" to "'Reparative Therapy' for Gays is Bad Science, Bad Religion" in response to my criticism? I suppose I'm flattered.

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FEngels   · 85 weeks ago

One of the greatest poskim of his generation, R. Dov Lesser, ztsal, told me that the verses from Leviticus mentioned in this article do not refer to homosexuality.
Instead, they refer to anal intercourse or sodomy which can be done by a man and woman as well as two men. It cannot be done by two women. Because of this and the fact that lesbians are no where mentioned in Torah per se, he and most classical scholars conclude that the Torah not only doesn't condemn homosexuality ( its from nature and the Torah doesn't condemn natural phenomena, he said) but also that outside of sodomy the Torah doesn't condemn sex between people of the same sex.
Of course, most orthodox will find the above startling not to mention threatening.
But what else would you expect from people who daily commit the sin of worshiping idols ( ie. man instead of G-d) or avodah zorah.

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1 reply  · active 85 weeks ago

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Jessica Hoffman  · 85 weeks ago

Actually, there's another law that contributes to the conclusion that two men should not be sexually involved with each other, even without sodomy. It applies to heterosexual encounters, as well, just as you said. It is the law that one shall not waste seed. A man who "wastes seed" knowing that there is no possibility, not even a tiny percentage, that their partner could become pregnant, is committing a sin directly from the Torah and confirmed in the Oral Law, as well.
I am Orthodox and the reason I don't find what R' Lesser said startling or threatening is because it's not fully fleshed out. He did not think of, perhaps, the concept of wasting seed. So even if it could be interpreted that the Torah does not condemn homosexuality because the pasuk is speaking about homosexuality for the purpose of idolatry, the law against wasting seed would condemn it the rest of the way.
And while many married couples don't use birth control at all, those who do use it fall into a different category of Torah laws regarding maintaining a healthy and happy marriage.
All of these comments are arguments are being made without all the info. The fact is, God wouldn't give us a condemnation unless He knew it might be an issue. The world and science are catching up to the Torah, not the other way around. Only this past week, doctors in Great Britain discovered that GID (gender identity disorder) is caused by an actual chemical misfiring in the brain, which explains why most patients who undergo sexual reassignment surgery and hormone therapy continue to feel the symptoms of GID even after they've changed genders, and that the most healthy way to treat GID would be to develop medication to correct that chemical misfire...much like meds for bipolar disorder. It's a slippery slope to "corrective medication" for homosexuality. I wonder how the author of this article might feel about that.

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truth1978   · 85 weeks ago

Thank you for that gem, rabbitonyjutner! I was going to copy it here in full, in case you become embarrassed by it and try to delete it later. But then I checked out your IntenseDebate profile -- it's like it's out of a comic book. Here is a sample comment of rabbitonyjutner: "Kudos. I agree with israeli100 (although he should change his name because it is offensive). I think that zionist professors should be dismissed from the UC system, because the concept of zionism in a progressive institution is an oxymoron. I hope that Shani will sign on to BDS so the zionist entity can be placed into the dustbin of history".
Go ahead -- take a good look, folks. There's 40 comments over there. Google NewJudaism -- it's not a joke (at least not an intentional one). Now rabbitonyjutner may well be a troll and a provocateur with a lot of time on his/her hands. But the sentiments he/she espouses are quite real.
So, all of you progressives out there -- did you get a good look? This is the face of your movement. Are you reading this, Jay Michaelson? rabbitonyjutner is certainly on the right side of history and moral law. Who's on board?
[As an G-d fearing Jew, I have no doubt that this NewJudaism won't even merit a footnote in history books a century from now -- along with other perverse aberrations. But enjoy the thrill while it lasts!]

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D___   · 85 weeks ago

It's an interesting article that really makes one think.
A related topic, one that Michaelson barely mentions, is bisexuality. I know little about it, but do know of a few women who split up with their female partners and began relationships with men. I once had a college roommate who was bisexual.
Human sexual attraction is a very complicated thing. Some try to suggest that everyone is either 100% straight or 100% gay, but research has shown that it isn't quite this simple. There are many who have some feelings for those of the same sex, but their attraction to the opposite gender is much stronger. There are also those who are truly bisexual. From what I've read, the numbers of bisexual men and women may be slightly higher than the numbers of those who feel attraction for only those of the same gender. It's hard to know for sure because there are a number of conflicting studies out there.
Here's where the issue gets extremely thorny. Should a bisexual man who decides to marry a woman subdue his feelings for other men? What if he has a family, but later decides to leave his wife because he also has feelings for another man? Should we just say, "It's ok that you left your wife and kids, and we support you on your quest to explore life with another man? Should a bisexual woman involved in a long and caring relationship with another woman suppress her feelings for men? Is it ok if she leaves her longtime partner to hook up with a man? Some have suggested trying to have it both ways--perhaps allowing a man to be married to a woman while also being intimate with another man. Can Judaism support this?
There are many who are very torn about these issues, but they are issues that can't be swept under the rug.

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levinjf   · 85 weeks ago

People who call the traditional Jews "fossils" on the way out, and enlightened New Jews as the next big wave, know nothing of demographics. Every serious population study points unmistakably that in 100 years the vast majority of people in America who we would recognize as Jews will be descended from today's traditional Jews, and while the "New Jews" may have a few kids--not enough to replace them-- their descendants in 100 years will NOT be Jewish in any meaningful sense. I've met several nice American Gentiles who had a Jewish ancestor in 19th Century America--a Reform Jewish ancestor. Try to find an American Jew today whose ancestors attended a Reform Temple before 1900.

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3 replies  · active 85 weeks ago

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 Moshe of Rockville's avatar 
Moshe of Rockville  · 85 weeks ago

levinjf: sorry to puncture your beliefs, but I have also known Jews who have descended from non-Jews.Indeed, such projections that you refer to have no meaning in the reality of guess work.Such predictions are valueless for no one can predict the future with any degree of certainty.

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truth1978   · 85 weeks ago

But which, statistically, is more likely -- an unobservant or Reform Jew not having Jewish descendants or a non-Jew having a Jewish ones?

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levinjf   · 85 weeks ago

You're right of course; the Orthodox may start having only one or two children, while Jewish Reform gay couples will start having 10 or 12 kids, just like the Haredim today! Perhaps you can cite examples from history where such population demographic turnarounds actually occurred? If projections based on actual statistics have no meaning, all the insurance companies would go out of business. They bet on such projections, and seem to be doing all right.

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BillP51   · 85 weeks ago

My mother was an interior designer for many years and had contact with many gay people, some has friends. She told me that it was a difficult life in a number of facets. Nobody would choose it on their own.
Having said that it used to be the love that dare not speak its name. Now its the love that doesn't shut its mouth. I really wish the gay activists would give it a rest already.

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rabbitonyjutner   · 85 weeks ago

This is another reason why NewJudaism is destined to triumph and leave fossil rabbinical Judaism in the dustbin of history. We at NewJudaism welcome the bravery of not only coming out of the closet and challenging the corrupt autocracy of fossil Judaism, but their ability to attack other golden calves of fossil Judaism such as kashrut and circimcusion. Witness the exposure of pinkwashing as a futile attempt of the zionist entity to rebrand itself. Gay activist serve as our shock troops, that will lead a replacement of fossil Judaism with our trinity of Social Justice, Economic Justice, and Rights of Return of Endogenous Peoples, especially the Palestinians
Amandlaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See you at the Harvard One State Conference in March 3-4

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truth1978   · 85 weeks ago

Thank you for that gem, rabbitonyjutner! I was going to copy it here in full, in case you become embarrassed by it and try to delete it later. But then I checked out your IntenseDebate profile -- it's like it's out of a comic book. Here is a sample comment of rabbitonyjutner: "Kudos. I agree with israeli100 (although he should change his name because it is offensive). I think that zionist professors should be dismissed from the UC system, because the concept of zionism in a progressive institution is an oxymoron. I hope that Shani will sign on to BDS so the zionist entity can be placed into the dustbin of history".
Go ahead -- take a good look, folks. There's 40 comments over there. Google NewJudaism -- it's not a joke (at least not an intentional one). Now rabbitonyjutner may well be a troll and a provocateur with a lot of time on his/her hands. But the sentiments he/she espouses are quite real.
So, all of you progressives out there -- did you get a good look? This is the face of your movement. Are you reading this, Jay Michaelson? rabbitonyjutner is certainly on the right side of history and moral law. Who's on board?
[As an G-d fearing Jew, I have no doubt that this NewJudaism won't even merit a footnote in history books a century from now -- along with other perverse aberrations. But enjoy the thrill while it lasts!]

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SC&A   · 85 weeks ago

Well, I'm more worrfied about fossil Islam and the scores of deaths sentences served against gays in the Islamic. Maybe that is why so many gay Muslims seek refuge in Israel- they are free to live their lives in peace and without fear.
Still, you concern is gratifying. Are you familiar with the works of Irshad Manji and Nonie Darwish?
Also, the Syrian psychiatrist Wafa Sultan offers up excellent insights into the dysfunctional Arab mind. She has published lots.

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Moshe of Rockville  · 85 weeks ago

The "rabbit" is still peddling his bigotry. His/her hatred of the Jew,Judaism and/or the Jewish State is well-known. His line is well understood,but not appreciated by anyone who understands the contributions made by Jewish civilization,including our faith,its revolutionary monotheism and the individuals inspired by its teachings.As stated so many times in the political sphere, the "rabbit" is entitled to his/her opinion,but not his facts,colored with so much disgusting, barbaric hate that he/she will disappear in the dustbins of history.

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@DanielHorowitz3  · 85 weeks ago

Neglecting the simple fact that if the Torah is divine, it does NOT change based on history or social mores, I find it disturbing that Mr. Michaelson is so disingenuous with his readers.
He uses Exodus, with its scores of members who have been unsuccessful with change, as a proof to the fallacy of reparative therapy. (I myself once worked with a man who was abused by one of their “leaders.”) However, Exodus’s own website states: “Some within the Exodus network have found this type of therapy to be beneficial, though it is not a method Exodus employs or endorses.” They instead do rely on praying it away, which of course is ineffective.
Secondly, does he truly have “hundreds” of horror stories? If so then he should gather with those men and press charges against their perpetrators. I suspect it is far fewer, if even more than the two on the video.
And what are his statistics of those who used LICENSED therapists? You get what you pay for. If someone goes to a medicine man to cure their cancer and still remain ill, does that impugn the work of the people at Sloan Kettering?
I am curious to hear what Mr. Michaelson's response to these questions would
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Ken Sperber  · 85 weeks ago

"if the Torah is divine, it does NOT change based on history or social mores. . ." This theological assertion is a rejection of the entire enterprise of rabbinic tradition. That's fine, but it is not normative Rabbinic Judaism.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

I do feel sorry for Mr. Michaelson, but he's not going to interpret this prohibition away. Nor is it reasonable to argue that, because someone has a particular inclination, it must be good for him to act on it. Alcoholics are naturally inclined towards drinking-- they, of all people, should not. Some people are very much inclined to fight whenever the opportunity arises, and others enjoy cruelty. Society requires all of these people to curb their impulses.
Michaelson's endless carping over what he wishes Judaism taught on this subject arises not from any particular analysis or serious theological position on his part, but from his stubborn insistence that Judaism and the Torah conform to him, rather than the other way around.

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marjemkalter   · 85 weeks ago

Morganfrost, YOU are the one is is trying to re-interpret reality. You are on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of moral law.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

Oh, well, thanks; I guess that settles it.

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@azigra  · 85 weeks ago

Morganfrost, there is nothing to be settled. There are just the facts and decency and you dont have either of them.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

I see-- you argue points almost as well as marjemkalter.

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Dan_O2   · 85 weeks ago

How condescending can you get? Comparing sexual orientation to addiction, aggression, and psychopathy?
If the problem were merely theological, there would be no need to go there. You could say that The Torah is clear on an issue, and leave it at that. But instead, you insist on presenting homosexuality as a disease. That's on level with Shafran. A low level.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

You mean comparing an inclination towards unnatural acts to an inclination towards substance abuse? Actually, I can get a lot more condescending (and your fatuous arguments are certainly pushing me in that direction).
I like lobster; you like off-beat sexual practices. According to the Torah, we're both SOL. Sorry.

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Dan_O2   · 85 weeks ago

If you had limited your discussion to your views on Torah, I'd have less trouble, but you stooped to homophobia instead, as if to grind home your point. And here, yet again, you display it. I like many people who happen to be gay, and I respect many more. But I'm straight.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

Hmmm..... I don't recall having asked you about your preferences. Interesting that you had to share them. You seem pretty worked up.

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Dan_O2   · 85 weeks ago

Not at all, buddy boy.

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oaklandj   · 85 weeks ago

Torah says what Torah says, as ambiguous as it is on supposed prohibitions on homosexuality. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/leviticus-homo...
Halakha is ever-evolving. One day, probably not too far in the future, gay people won't be condemned and forced to live a life of misery to appease other people's sanctimony.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

No, the Torah isn't really evolving this way. What you're asking for is more than a re-interpretation; rather, it's a complete break with the past, and a rejection of clear-cut interpretations that have been around throughout Jewish history. I'm not trying to convince you to like the halakha; merely to recognize that it isn't going to change because you don't.

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oaklandj   · 85 weeks ago

I happen to view the arc of Jewish theology, and what it portends for the future, differently than you do. And considering relatively few Jews demonize gay people, especially younger people, I suspect the trend is my friend.
We'll see, Morgan. Or, rather, we won't. We will be dead before we can see how the evolution of Judaism will happen.

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BROOKBI   · 85 weeks ago

God never changes, the way he felt about gay people in the past is the way he feels now and the way he will feel in the future...it's a sin. God is our creator and has the right to say what is right or wrong. No matter how mankind feels about any given subject, only God has the right to determine how he views it ...and then it does not change.

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oaklandj   · 85 weeks ago

I'm curious, are you Jewish or Christian? If you are Christian, why do you feel your personal or doctrinal opinion on homosexuality is in any way relevant to a discussion on the topic among Jews?

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

Oakland, you don't "view the arc of Jewish theology" at all. You don't know Hebrew, you haven't stuidied Jewish theology, I doubt you could work your way through a page of the Talmud... you're just looking for validation where you aren't going to find it. Frankly, that's your business, and (for the record) I'm not demonizing you. But I'm also not offering up the unconditional validation you seem to crave (nor am I seeking yours). You want some kind of Jewish imprimatur on your lifestyle? Try Reform or even Conservative. If you need everyone else to abandon a few thousand years of law and tradition so you can stop feeling guilty, I really don't see it happening. If that's not what you want, then why do you keep arguing with me? I honestly don't care how you live your life, as long as it doesn't involve me.

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oaklandj   · 85 weeks ago

It would help if you actually read instead of launching into a tirade. I stated my beliefs. I don't care what yours are, and frankly, I don't respect them. Beliefs like yours have caused gay & lesbian people a lot of unnecessary grief over the years.
Neither of us know how Judaism will evolve in the future, and your "knowledge" of Talmud and Hebrew won't get you any farther than it does me.
As others have suggested, I'm beginning to see your posts as simple trolling, so I won't bother responding after this. Continue this thread with a sockpuppet if you like.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

I thought I was carrying on this thread with a sockpuppet.

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Ken Sperber  · 85 weeks ago

"You don't know Hebrew, you haven't stuidied Jewish theology, I doubt you could work your way through a page of the Talmud. . ." Suffice it to say I do "know Hebrew," have "studied Jewish theology," and can indeed "work my way through a page of Talmud." Your statement that, "the Torah isn't really evolving this way" is incorrect. Thousands of years of rabbinic tradition illustrate this on every page. Torah in normative Jewish rabbinic tradition always has evolved in ways both incremental and radical and inevitably continues to do so. The insistance that it does not is a modern invention itself at odds with authentic normative rabbinic tradition. This does not mean that a particular conclusion on a particular question is forced--it is not--but the process of evolution and inevitability of multiple valid but mutually exclucsive conclusions is the core of rabbinic Jewish tradition. To deny this is to deny everything.

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Morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

Well, OK, Rabbi-- so let's pursue your claim. I won't ask for illustrations "on every page." Let's start with a simple illustration of your point-- find me a single d'oraisa halakha that existed in Talmudic times that has been rescinded.

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Ken Sperber  · 85 weeks ago

Many an excellent book has been penned on the subject of the nature and development of halacha. If that you are asking shows a desire to learn, I am not volunteering to do the teaching. Of course there is always the chance that what your question really implies is that you think you already know everything and believe you actually have nothing further to learn on the subject in which case I am *certainly* not volunteering.
I will, however, tell anyone following the thread that in talmudic times if a man disappeared in a body of water large enough that the opposite shore could not be seen he was presumed still living as perhaps he had survived to the opposite shore. Thus, *d'oraisah,* his wife was an agunah in Talmudic times. The Chatam Sofer, however, no liberal it should be noted, ruled in the 18th century that in light of the advent of then modern means of communication that such a man could indeed be presumed dead and his widow free to remarry for had such a man survived he would undoubtedly have gotten word back home. Thus, children from the woman's next marriage who would have been *mamzerim* for the Talmud are perfectly fine according to the Chatam Sofer in the 18th century. The fact is, halacha evolves for all kinds of reasons, as this case illustrates changing technological realities among them.
Of course we also know the Torah clearly sentences the rebellious child to death and the Talmud itself models for us how to approach such a pasuk such that it becomes effectively nullified and Hillel illustrates yet another--still more radical--way to nullify clear Torah law when he invents a way out of the cancellation of debts at the end of the 7th year of the 7 year cycle. You may not like masechet Sanhedrin, or Hillel, or the Chatam Sofer, or the Tzitz Eliezer (who ruled a generation ago that a hearing impaired person could use an electric hearing aid on Shabbat), or literally countless others, but the reality remains it is you not they that is outside normative rabbinic tradition in your insistance that Halacha does not evolve. It does and it always did. The claim that it does not is a modern invention and a deviation from normative rabbinic tradition.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

Whoa. First, you know perfectly well that your first example is a bit of a stretch. The principles illustrated in the Talmudic passage in question were in no way reversed by the Chatam Sofer-- the rulings on those issues are very fact specific.
Second, your second example is completely non-responsive. The Talmudic interpretation is understood to be the correct application of the halakha-- not a reversal thereof (which is why I specified post-Talmudic changes in my question). And, since you've already explained to me the extent of your erudition, I can only conclude that you knew that perfectly well, and were trying to mislead "anyone following the thread." I'd expect a bit more candor from a Torah scholar.

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Ken Sperber  · 85 weeks ago

Not misleading at all. I am not intentionally saying something I know to be untrue in order to mislead. That's silly. I just disagree with you. Disagreement with someone is not automatically a sign that they are "misleading" are speaking with a lack of "candor." To anyone interested in the subject I recommend for further reading Joel Roth's The Halakhic Process, A Systemic Analysis; Eliezer Berkovits' Not in Heaven, The Nature and Function of Halakha; Some of Daniel Sperber's (no relation) books are enlightening; Eliott Dorff's books on the subject. Expect morganfrost to now explain why each of these scholars is wrong, or "misleading," or the like. That's ok, though it would probably be better to study them first. If you might pick just one from the list, for my money go to R. Roth's book.

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morganfrost   · 85 weeks ago

You were being misleading. I suspect you know why, but, for the benefit of any outsider who still cares about this thread, a Talmudic clarification of a d'oraisa is not a reversal of the d'oraisa, by definition-- it's part of the oral tradition, and a necessary part of the d'oraisa. Moreover, a discussion in the Talmud is not the same as psak halakha. Finally, reciting a list of books isn't helping your argument, nor, in any rational argument, does naming a book oblige your opponent to refute your understanding of the book in detail. Your obfuscations aside, you have not named a single d'oraisa halakha that has been reversed in the last 2,000 years. Claiming that our understanding of halakha "evolves" in no way changes that fact. Normative halakhic Judaism has not, will not, and can not validate homosexual unions.

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Samuel Torjman Thomas  · 85 weeks ago

Well put. Thanks for the eloquent defense of the evolutionary nature of true normative rabbinic tradition and your clearly argued case that what we see today is radicalism in modern Jewish thought. Halakhic Judaism today resembles Karaites...but just of the Oral Torah instead of the Written Torah.

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Jesse Monteagudo
New Options for LGBT Jews
Filed By Jesse Monteagudo | March 03, 2012 1:00 PM | 0 comments
Filed in: Living
 Tags: Chebrei Tikvah, Jewish gays, Keshet, LGBT jews, Nehirim, Ru'ach, WCGLBTJ


In the early 1970s, lesbian and gay Jews (bisexuals and transgender folk were not yet on our collective radar) founded the first gay synagogues: Beth Chaym Chadashim in Los Angeles (1972) and Congregation Thumbnail image for gay-jews.jpgBeth Simchat Torah in New York City (1973). At a time when traditional Judaism was still very homophobic, LGBT congregations provided queer Jews with safe places to practice our religion and celebrate our community.
The L.A. and New York shuls were soon followed by similar congregations in South Florida (Etz Chaim, 1974), Washington, D.C. (Beth Mishpachah, 1975), San Francisco (Sha'ar Zahav, 1977), Seattle (Tikvah Chadashah, 1980) and other cities. Together, LGBT synagogues form the World Congress of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Jews (WCGLBTJ).
Unfortunately for queer synagogues, the growing acceptance of LGBT Jews on the part of the Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative movements (though not yet the Orthodox) have made uniquely gay temples less necessary.
Writing for the venerable Jewish Forward (2008), Anthony Weiss noted the change as gay shuls like Atlanta's Beth Haverim began to attract straight members: "As the mainstream Jewish world has increasingly accepted gay and lesbian Jews, gay-and-lesbian-founded synagogues like Beth Haverim have grappled with questions that go to the core of their identity. ... Now, as more and more straight members join Bet Haverim and other synagogues like it, a large question arises. Should there ideally be such things as distinctive gay and lesbian synagogues, or would the need for such a separate space disappear?"
 
 

There is no easy answer to this question. Weiss quoted Rabbi Eric Yoffe, President of the Union for Reform Judaism, who said that eventually most LGBT congregations would disappear, if only "because gay men and lesbians would be at ease in Reform congregations." On the other hand, as Jewish gay activist and scholar Jay Michaelson (God vs. Gay?) recently told me, "there are different models in different places. In many places, LGBT congregations are being replaced. In other cities, such as L.A., New York, and San Francisco LGBT synagogues are continuing to grow and change."
According to the Forward, in 2005 Cleveland's Chebrei Tikvah merged with the local Fairmount Temple, though it still meets twice a month as an LGBT minyan (quorum).
As LGBT Jews became more active in the lives of "mainstream" synagogues, they began to form specifically-LGBT havurot (fellowship groups) within those temples. One of those is the Ru'ach ("spirit") founded in 2000 as part of Temple Israel of Greater Miami (http://templeisrael.net/community/gay-lesbian). Ru'ach describes itself as "a havurah serving the Jewish lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community in South Florida. We are committed to fostering a joyous, open and accepting environment for sharing spiritual, religious and social programming."
Among a growing list of Ru'ach-sponsored events are the annual Pride Seder; semi-monthly havdalah services that bring the Jewish Sabbath to a close; and educational programs featuring gay and Jewish scholars like Michaelson. Members of Ru'ach also work together with Next@19th, a Jewish cultural group housed at Temple Israel which, though not necessarily gay, is definitely LGBT-friendly.
On a national level, LGBT Jews have created community organizations that supplement the more synagogue-oriented WCGLBTJ. Nehirim ("lights"), founded by Michaelson in 2004, is (according to Michaelson) "the largest national community organization of LGBT Jews, partners, and allies. We have run retreats and other programs for thousands of folks across the country. We also partner with local groups already doing great work in the area."
Future Nehirim-sponsored events include a Woman's Retreat (Falls Village, CT, March 23-25); a Men's Retreat (Falls Village, CT, March 30-April 1), a co-ed Nehirim East Retreat (Falls Village, CT, June 15-17) and a week-long Camp Nehirim for Men (Easton Mountain, NY, August 22-26).
Another national LGBT group is Keshet, which takes its name from the Hebrew word for "rainbow" and "bow." Keshet is a national grassroots organization that works for the full inclusion of LGBT Jews in Jewish life. Having merged with Jewish Mosaic: The National Center for Sexual & Gender Diversity in 2010, Keshet sponsors social and cultural events in the Greater Boston area, ranging from Jewish text study to an annual GLBT Jewish speed-dating gala, Keshet Quick Dates. On a national level, Keshet offers LGBT Jews support, training, and resources.
As individuals and as a group, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Jews will continue to exist, to flourish, and to leave our mark on the Jewish, LGBT, and mainstream communities. As we continue to evolve, our community organizations will follow suit, in order to reflect our ever-changing realities.

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In Newsweek Magazine
Is It Fair to Punish Dharun Ravi Because Tyler Clementi Died?
Mar 12, 2012 1:00 AM EDT 

Dharun Ravi may be a jerk, but he shouldn’t go to prison for it.
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One of the core assumptions of LGBT activism, anti-racism work, and other civil-rights activism is that all of us, no matter how enlightened we are, have prejudice within us. You don’t “get over” your racism or homophobia; you learn to recognize it.

Yet the highest-profile gay-bashing trial of the decade will turn on whether Dharun Ravi, a Rutgers University sophomore, acted out of anti-gay bias against his roommate, Tyler Clementi, when he recorded Clementi having sex with another man on his webcam and tweeted about it. The facts are not in dispute; only the motivations. In other words, not only is the entire case taking place in Dharun Ravi’s head, but Ravi is on trial for what all of us feel from time to time: prejudice against those who are different from us.

Why? Because while Ravi is on trial for invasion of privacy, the more serious offense with which he is charged is “bias intimidation,” a hate crime. If all Ravi did was film Clementi in bed with another man, it’s a minor offense. If he did so in order to harass Clementi for being gay, he could get 10 years in prison.

As the trial has unfolded, there appears to be general agreement that Ravi is a bit of a jerk. He and his friends made fun of Clementi’s economic status, his nerdy demeanor, even his choice of email provider. Ravi used the words “fag” and “gay” in a derogatory way. And yet, as I’ve read the instant-message transcripts that form much of the body of evidence, it’s been abundantly clear that Ravi’s homophobia is of the casual, locker-room variety. Yes, it’s there, but it’s also everywhere.

Clementi, meanwhile, emerges as a delicate young man who was uncomfortable in his own skin—not only because he was gay, but also because he was slight, socially awkward, and unsure of himself.

Of course, this trial is taking place only because shortly after Ravi recorded him, Clementi killed himself by jumping off the George Washington Bridge. That’s why the case has attracted so much attention: Clementi was one in a series of gay-teen suicides brought on by bullying and intimidation. Now both Clementi and Ravi are symbols.
rutgers-trial-nb30
 
And yet, is Ravi really responsible for Clementi’s suicide? Legally, the only relevance of the suicide is whether it shows Clementi felt harassed for being gay. In reality, the suicide haunts everything; otherwise this would be a matter for the Rutgers resident advisers.

The problem is that justice is individual, whereas symbols are collective. Of course, judges “send a message” to would-be criminals all the time by disproportionately punishing the ones who get caught. But there’s a difference between sending a message and scapegoating. Whatever was going through Ravi’s head is no different from what millions of other 18-year-olds think, and feel, all the time—including, every jock I went to high school with. Those attitudes are indeed reprehensible. But Ravi is the one whose life now hangs in the balance, a scapegoat for all of us.

At the same time, an acquittal would send the message that it’s OK to bully gay kids, embarrass them, and drive them to despair or worse. The details will be lost, and the effects will be disastrous. There’s no good result here. Individually, it’s a disaster if Ravi gets sent to jail. But symbolically it’s a disaster if he’s let off.

The only way out would be a verdict that no one will like: guilty, but with no jail time for “bias intimidation.” This would send the right message while not ruining the life of an average guy who picked on a delicate kid. It would protect hate-crime laws from being undermined by a bad case. And it would acknowledge who’s really on trial in this case: all of us.
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Jay Michaelson is associate editor of Religion Dispatches and the author, most recently, of God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality (Beacon, 2011).

For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at editorial@thedailybeast.com.
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October 18, 2013


     
 
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24th Annual Lambda Literary Award Finalists Announced
Posted on 20. Mar, 2012 by Edit Team in Foundation Updates
Finalists for the Lambda Literary Awards were announced today by the Lambda Literary Foundation (LLF) in Los Angeles.  Books from major mainstream publishers and from academic presses, from both long-established and new LGBT publishers, as well as from emerging publish-on-demand technologies, make up the 119 finalists for the “Lammys.”  The finalists were selected from a record number of nominations.
The awards, now in their twenty-fourth year, celebrate achievement in lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) writing for books published in 2011. Winners will be announced at a Monday evening, June 4th ceremony in New York at the CUNY Graduate Center (365 Fifth Avenue) with an after-party at Slate (54 West 21st Street).
Lambda set a record in 2010 for both the number of LGBT books nominated (520) and the number of publishers participating (about 230). That record has been surpassed this year, with more than 600 titles represented from about 250 publishers.
“For three consecutive years we have broken the records for both book nominees and publishers, which is extremely heartening in a time of uncertainty for the publishing industry as a whole, and LGBT publishing, in particular,” said LLF Board of Trustees Co-Chair, David McConnell.
More than 90 booksellers, book reviewers, librarians, authors, previous Lammy winners and finalists, and other book professionals volunteered many hours of reading time, critical thinking, and invigorating shared discussion to select the finalists in 24 categories.
“The Lambda Literary Awards would not be possible without the time, energy, and intelligence of our volunteer judges who put countless hours of reading into selecting our finalists,” said Lambda Executive Director, Tony Valenzuela. “Because of their hard work, this day is a celebration of our finalists, whose outstanding books extend the fabric of our literature and enrich our community. Congratulations to these talented authors on their tremendous achievement.”
Pioneer Award honorees, the master of ceremonies, and presenters will be announced the second week of April.
Tickets for the Lambda Literary Awards ceremony and after-party go on sale today.  For more information click here.