Friday, October 18, 2013
Homophobic comments from OJ's part 6
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Jake Thomas
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09:41 PM on 10/22/2011
Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.By this all will know that you are My disciples.”
Christ loved everyone. He also said, "He That Is without sin, Cast The First Stone"
"Real Christians" do not hate. The only real abomination in this world is the rampant hatred that exists.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
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01:03 PM on 10/23/2011
Unfortunately many Christians have developed an elaborate denial system whereby they have made themselves believe they are showing their love for gays by insisting that they change or remain celibate. The "love the sinner, hate the sin" talking point allows them to shield themselves from their own hatefulness and bigotry. Christianity has a long sordid tradition of brutality in the name of "love". The Inquisitors showed their Christian love by torturing heretics in this life so they wouldn't have to suffer in the next. Good Christian missionaries showed their love to native Americans by attempting to strip them of their religious traditions and languages.
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Jake Thomas
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02:34 PM on 10/23/2011
"love the sinner, hate the sin" I have heard that a lot too, an oxymoron if you ask me.
I search and search and have found it never came out of the mouth of Christ.
The message Christ spread was and is to this day revolutionary. He was the penultimate Humanist.
If Christians embraced the word of love there would be not hate, there
When I was a teen, many moons ago, I listened to my Pastor speech of the "scourge of homosexuality" and how they would burn in hell.
I hate a meeting with him that very day and renounced my faith in a Church built by men not the hand of God.
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StevenM
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06:04 AM on 10/26/2011
The phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" is often attributed to Gandhi. While this platitude is often criticized, I tend to like it (but maybe now with reservations). It all depends on how one "hates the sin." After all, sometimes we find ourselves in a situation where we need to treat a person with respect, but this does not mean that we have to condone everything this person does. But all too often, "hating the sin" is simply thinly veiled hating the sinner. And all too often Christians mistakenly think that they need to go around telling people that they are "sinners," as if that was the secret to making friends.
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Jake Thomas
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12:01 PM on 10/26/2011
Well articulated Steve.
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DianaLynn1967
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12:36 PM on 11/08/2011
"But all too often, 'hating the sin' is simply thinly veiled hating the sinner. And all too often Christians mistakenly think that they need to go around telling people that they are 'sinners,' as if that was the secret to making friends.”
Ain't it the truth!
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detroitblkmale30
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09:26 AM on 10/25/2011
I agree real Christians do not hate. They love. I love everyone. I just dont support sin. Jesus demonstrated precisely how to love the sinner not the sin with the woman caught in adultery, with zacchaeus the tax collector, with Mary Magdelene with many others. If anyone suggests this approach is un-christian then perhaps they need to reassess what a Christian really is.
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upndacity
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11:29 PM on 10/25/2011
The only sin you need to worry about it your own.
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wonderYrednow
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01:44 AM on 10/26/2011
I think dbm30 should worry about mine, it would keep him really busy and I could entertain all my friends with the little fool scurrying around in my wake.....
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detroitblkmale30
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08:12 AM on 10/26/2011
That's not what the BIble says. Thanks anyway.
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detroitblkmale30
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10:23 AM on 10/28/2011
Saying something is a sin is far from being the same thing as hating. If you are going to quote Jesus then perhaps you should quote his support for OT law which includes Lev. 20:13
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Jake Thomas
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10:58 AM on 10/28/2011
My point being is that many of our Churches do use the bible to serve the political will of their congregations and forget the central message of love.
The biggest transgression or sin a Christian can make is to turn his or her back on the the word of Christ and that is to "love on another".
The hate generated by those who accept a literal interpretation of the bible is sinful.
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detroitblkmale30
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11:03 AM on 10/28/2011
Saying something is a sin is far from hate. You seem to miss the point that people aren taking their agendas and writing scripture they are taking scripture to inform their positions. Love without spiritual accountability is not what Jesus called for.
No the biggest transgression is those who put themselves in the place of God by using his scriptures "love" as a smokescreen to revise the scriptures as they see fit for their own desires.
The Bible warns against doing just this.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding Prov. 3:5
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 2 time 4:3
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Jake Thomas
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12:30 PM on 10/28/2011
Christ made no mention of the homosexuality in his Testament. Not once. Christ spoke of love. Humanity speaks of hate. I am not a biblical scholar, I pick and choose like you seem too.
I trust in the Lord by loving all my brothers and sisters, regardless of sexual orientation.
Love is the central theme of the bible and sadly the most misunderstood.
I think you are off track.
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detroitblkmale30
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12:50 PM on 10/28/2011
You are right he made no mention of it. No supporting statements of it. Given that the law already prohibited same sex acts the onus would be on Jesus to revise it, as he did divorce, stoning, forgiveness etc etc. Yet as you have stated "not once" Jesus did say in the gospels that he supported OT law which included such prohibitions. If he supportes homosexuality why didnt he say so? An omnisicient God knew then that we'd be having this conversation now. No I dont pick and choose that is the difference between us, I take the Bible in its entirety and proper theological context. You are applying secular humanist reasoning through the lense of "love" to the text. We do agree that love is misunderstood when it comes to the BIble. It does not mean that anything is permissible even when it contradicts the scriptures simply as long as love is involved. Using that notion you could justify almost every sin in the Bible including adultery, theft, murder, lying, incest etc etc etc.That notion is what is off track.
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layla1
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09:31 PM on 10/22/2011
I listened to the video by Bishop Robinson, thank you Bishop, I really needed to hear those words of encouragement tonight. Amen
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JayBachand
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04:26 PM on 10/22/2011
Hmm. Angry, self-righteous Christians on the right saying god wants one thing. Angry, self-righteous Christians on the left using the same book and creeds to say god wants another.
Yeah, I'm still good without god.
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LintLass
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06:13 PM on 10/22/2011
See, you nearly touched on the Christians' most dreaded phrase: 'I Don't Know.' If they don't know, maybe they should stop oppressing and defaming LGBT people till further notice from 'on high?' :)
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aviandonn
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04:05 PM on 10/22/2011
The bible is just a giant verbal Rorschach. Everyone sees what they need to see, which is why it continues to still be so popular. It provides whatever support a person needs to defend their personal biases, beliefs and prejudices. It makes every reader feel special and validated in the eyes of god.
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Salty too
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04:51 PM on 10/22/2011
No if it is read as it is suppossed to be read. " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashaqmed, rightly dividing the word of truth".
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StevenM
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05:12 PM on 10/22/2011
And who gets to decide if you are rightly dividing the word of truth? You fail to see that you have become the problem, your interpretation of the Bible is merely a mirror reflection of your own personal beliefs.
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Salty too
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05:30 PM on 10/22/2011
Your ignorance is great. There is not enough space to educate you here. But then again you're not interested in that are you? If you were you would realize just how foolish you are being. " Let the ignorant be ignorant" The bible is not hard to understand. Differant books are written to differant people for differant times. A child can see that.
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StevenM
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06:29 PM on 10/22/2011
All you can do is name calling because you have no argument to stand on!
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ladycrisperfst
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08:52 PM on 10/22/2011
Ignorant just means you do not know something. We all are ignorant in something or another. No one has all the answers that is God's job.
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HGfromOmaha
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11:01 PM on 10/22/2011
Cmon Steven! You know you're trying to take a leak into a fan that's on "high" when you argue with these folks.
Name calling is the ultimate form of fallback. Instead of arguing facts, they say you're ignorant.
Let me go ahead and tell you what the next statement will be from them......"They take it all of faith"......
Anyway, I'm loving this! More popcorn please!
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StevenM
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04:56 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "The bible is just a giant verbal Rorschach."
There is a lot of truth in that. If one is for slavery, the Bible is for slavery. If one is against slavery, the Bible is against slavery. And in my experience, this problem exists on the left, as much as on the right. The left often interpret Jesus as a liberal, just as the right interpret Jesus as a conservative.
Without breaking my arm patting myself on the back, instead of reinterpreting the Bible to always agree with me, I simply claim that the Bible is wrong on those issues. In my opinion, it is a more honest approach.
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StevenM
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01:45 PM on 10/22/2011
In the major social movements in the last two centuries, including Abolition of Slavery, Woman’s Suffrage, Civil Rights, Woman’s Equal Rights, and Gay Marriage, there have been conservative Christians fighting against progress as well as liberal Christians fighting for progress. The second largest Christian group in the US (after the Roman Church), the Southern Baptist Convention [SBC], became a separate denomination in 1845 following a regional split with northern Baptists over the issues of slavery. The SBC supported slavery, claiming that the Bible justified slavery; then they supported Jim Crow laws and segregation; they fought against federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights. In the 1940s, most conservative Christians were Democrats, but as the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, many conservative Christians switched parties from the Democrats to the Republicans, thus making the Republican Party the party of conservative Christians, a direct result of their thinly veiled racism. Today most mainline Protestant Churches are ordaining those in same-sex relationships, and claim that homosexuality is not a sin. The conservative Churches continue to fight against progress and equal rights; and while their influence is slowly diminishing, and although they no longer have the stranglehold on American society and the US political system which they once had, they are still a powerful voting bloc today, largely motivated by hatred and bigotry.
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Stand Up for your Belief
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01:41 PM on 10/22/2011
Are they reading the same Bible that I'm reading?!?!? In the one I have, God clearly finds homosexuality and abomination unto him and a SIN.
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StevenM
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02:47 PM on 10/22/2011
Do you follow every commandment in the Bible? Conservative Christians have a double standard. They are willing to condemn those who don't follow scripture, while they themselves do not follow all the commandments in scripture.
Peter writes: "[Wives] Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing" (1 Peter 3:3 NRSV). Walk into any conservative Church, how many married women are wearing gold ornaments on their left hand? How many are wearing fine clothing? But of course, they can rationalize away the need to follow this commandment. Or what about: “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials” (Leviticus 19:19 NRSV).
Are you reading the same Bible that I'm reading????
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bcbcol09
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03:41 PM on 10/22/2011
We have to be mindful that we ALL struggle with SOMETHING. It's fine to be open and honest with ourselves and others because truth sets you free, but we need to also uphold and help one another understand that we cannot allow ourselves to give into carnal desires or our weaknesses NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE! A sin is a sin is a sin!
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StevenM
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04:15 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "A sin is a sin is a sin!"
I wonder if you even read my message before replying to it? Because nothing of what you wrote actually addresses the issues I raised.
Furthermore, not all "sins" are created equally. Eating a hotdog is not the same as murder. Sure, eating non-kosher foods was called a sin in Hebrew scripture, but are you really going to argue that there is no difference between them? What about wearing a "garment made of two different materials"? Is that just as bad as adultery?
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LintLass
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06:32 PM on 10/22/2011
I think this is where they get the idea that hurting or killing LGBT people is 'no worse' than just being an LGBT person and being there.
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HGfromOmaha
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11:04 PM on 10/22/2011
Ahhhh....Pick N Choose Christianity! Pick the parts you like, ignore the parts you can't follow and then expect everybody else to follow the ENTIRE Bible!
Wonderful! Isn't this a thing of beauty? Do as I say, not as I do?
The sweet smell of hypocrisy in the morning!
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whatsupcastleman
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03:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Why do Levitical laws always show up in this debate ? A Christian in the New Covenant doesn't have to perform those old ceremonial, or civil laws that pertain to Israel.
A Christian is a lawbreaker at every point. (Romans 3 “ There is none righteous, no, not one;) However, that does not justify disobedience. A Christian seeks to align their will to what God's will is. It is positively expressed in scripture that men and women belong together. Even the illustration of Christ and His bride the church is understood within the marriage construct.
It is unnatural for two people to exchange sexual relations with each other when they do not have the natural faculties, given to them by God. The scripture calls these acts unnatural, and they stem from dishonorable passions. (Romans 1)
One can struggle with sin and remain a Christian. However, the Christian must recognize it as a sin, and fight against those sexual desires, praying that they can align themselves to God's will. It shouldn't be called obedience to God's revealed will.
It's insane to hang the Old Covenant in all of it's worship practices over the heads of New Covenant Christians. We don't do animal sacrifices in a temple. We are not under a theocracy. We don't need a levitical priesthood to perform sacrifices. We have Jesus Christ our High Priest. The bridegroom of the church. The church should learn to submit to her husband.
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StevenM
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04:32 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "It is unnatural for two people to exchange sexual relations with each other when they do not have the natural faculties, given to them by God. The scripture calls these acts unnatural, and they stem from dishonorable passions. (Romans 1)"
The Bible is wrong.
The Bible also claims that one should take a "stubborn and rebellious son" out to the edge of town and stone him (Deut 21:18-21). The Bible also claims that if a man rapes a virgin, he should be fined and forced to marry his rape victim (Deut 22:28-29). The Bible even legislated how to sell one's daughter as a sex-slave (Exodus 21:7-11). The Bible claims that if someone steals and is unable to pay restitution, that thief should be sold into slavery (Exodus 22:3). The Bible teaches that if a wife, defending her husband, accidentally touches the attacker's genitals, she should have her hand cut off (Deut 25:11). The Bible also condones ethnic cleansing and genocide (Joshua).
And in the New Testament, Peter writes: "[Wives] Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing" (1 Peter 3:3 NRSV). Walk into any conservative Church, how many married women are wearing gold ornaments on their left hand? How many are wearing fine clothing?
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LintLass
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06:34 PM on 10/22/2011
So, you're saying that a certain kind of gay sex in a list of those same ritual 'sins/abominations' actually belonged in another category... Cause you don't like gay people?
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Salty too
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04:53 PM on 10/22/2011
Firswt get a real bible and secoundly learn to "rightly divide the word of truth" as instucted.
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StevenM
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05:04 PM on 10/22/2011
Actually, I read the New Testament in Greek. Is that good enough for you?
Tell me, how should one rightly divide the following?: ὧν ἔστω οὐχ ὁ ἔξωθεν ἐμπλοκῆς τριχῶν καὶ περιθέσεως χρυσίων ἢ ἐνδύσεως ἱματίων κόσμος
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Salty too
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05:23 PM on 10/22/2011
So what? Which dialect? There was more than sixty. Just because you read the Greek doesn't mean you know or understand what it is saying. Just the fact you use a perverted text shows me just how little you know. BTW anyone can google a text and make claimes. You obviously don't know the most basic rule when reading the bible, how to rightly divide it. Different books were written to differant people for differant times. Thats something any bible student learns on day one.
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StevenM
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06:36 PM on 10/22/2011
Actually I read Greek from Homer to Medieval Byzantine Greek, including reading the Greek New Testament weekly with my pastor for over 20 years. My major in college was Classical Languages, where I learned Greek, Hebrew and Latin. There really isn't a great difference between the dialects. For example, there is a greater difference between Homer and Plato than there is between Xenophon and the Greek New Testament.
All you can do is slander those who disagree with you because you lack any arguments of merit to substantiate your point.
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Salty too
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09:30 PM on 10/22/2011
StevenM, All those years and never learned a simple thing like rightly dividing the truth?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:17 PM on 10/22/2011
WELL I DONT KNOW MY gREEK, HEBREW OR aRABIC BUT "IT IS ABOMINATION!" IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.
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StevenM
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10:38 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: ""IT IS ABOMINATION!" IS CRYSTAL CLEAR."
The Bible says that eating deer meat or pork is an abomination. Is that what you mean?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:46 PM on 10/22/2011
No Steve. The Holy Ghost told Peter he could get his grub on and eat anything as long as it wasnt sacrificed to idols! Jesus Himself said the no sexually immoral person will ever even see the kingdom of God let alone enter into it!
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StevenM
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10:49 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "The Holy Ghost told Peter ... "
That he didn't have to follow the commandments in the Bible!
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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11:08 PM on 10/22/2011
Peter had A VISION...aLL kinds of beast that were formerly forbidden Jews were laid out before him and the spirit told him to eat... It is not what goes into a man that defiles him but rather what comes out!
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StevenM
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07:13 AM on 10/23/2011
Re: "Peter had A VISION..."
And what was the result of this vision? Peter decided that God didn't want us to follow all the commandments in the Bible! Specifically, one didn't need to follow the kosher commandments in the Bible.
This is an important precedent! Paul also concluded that males no longer needed to be physically circumcised. In other words, Paul too concluded that we didn't need to follow all the commandments in the Bible.
Just as eating non-kosher is not a sin, just as a man not being circumcised is not a sin, so too homosexuality is not a sin! The Holy Spirit has revealed to the mainline Churches, as the body of Christ, that homosexuality is not a sin.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:49 PM on 10/23/2011
Stetve the Holy Ghost has done no such a thing. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. All sexual immorality is sin. Jesus said that he hated the practices of the Nicolaitanes and that He would slay them with His His words unless they repent.
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StevenM
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07:57 PM on 10/23/2011
Re: "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve."
Did you think that one up all by yourself? Or did you copy it?
Actually, God made us all, Adam, Eve, Susan, and Steve. What is important is how we live our lives, not whom we condemn. The two great commandments are to love God and to love others. You have distorted the Christian message to be one of hatred and condemnation, instead of inclusivity, love, and compassion for others.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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08:37 PM on 10/23/2011
God made us male and fremale perfectly formed to mate with the opposite sex. A hom condemn himself by not OBEYING. Jesus say if you love me then do as Isay. He say repent or perish! What is so hard about that for you to understand? It aint got nothing to do wit me. God made the rules not Jaggy!
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detroitblkmale30
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09:32 AM on 10/25/2011
Well said. While Paul through his vision, provided a revision of dietary things and circumcision. He did no such thing for same sex acts. PEople like Steven take that and using moral relativism say "well if we dont have to pay attention to THOSE laws, then perhaps we dont have to pay attention to THESE laws. This of course would never be supported in any other methodical context. In law you must have a precedent. You cant say well because the court determined that marriage is legal then polygamy must be legal too. Two different things. There is no theological predcent in the Bible that reverses what the Bible says on same sex acts. Those who support it either have to undergo extreme mental gymnastics or go with a vague "its all about love" approach. Neither are sufficient.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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07:20 PM on 10/25/2011
Jesus say if we love Him then we will obey!
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Bob Wood
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12:46 PM on 10/26/2011
Steven...I love it when someone knows what their talking about...as opposed to mouthing dogma. F & F ( I'll have to take your word on the Greek though...). It's useful to recognize myth and superstition...as myth and superstion. Someone has said that you can't reason someone out of something...they were never reasoned into in the first place. I don't think that Salty Too was ever reasoned into his position. Good luck...(sigh)
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:25 PM on 10/22/2011
Steve, Peter is not forbidding women to braid their hair or wear fine raiment. He is admonishing them to seek the real beauty that lies within and adorn themselves with the modesty of a pure heart.
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StevenM
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10:39 PM on 10/22/2011
You are presenting a typical conservative rationalization as to why they don't have to obey a clear and unambiguous commandment. What part of "do not" do you not understand? In fact, this commandment doesn't appear just once, but it is also found in 1 Timothy 2:9: "women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes." If you don't wish to follow these clear and unambiguous commandments, at least be honest about it. But 1 Peter 3:3 and 1 Timothy 2:9 clearly prohibit married women from wearing gold, braided hair, and fine clothes.
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jaggeththewires
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10:59 PM on 10/22/2011
I believe a Christian woman should be modest in all things, However I think Paul was using those things as example of frivolous things that are not to be favored over a pure and modest heart. Paul lacked the authority to specifically dictate what another mans wife could wear!
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HGfromOmaha
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11:06 PM on 10/22/2011
So suppose what you "believe" is wrong?
Pure and modest? Hmmmm.....that pretty much eliminates most of the people who use the label "Christian".
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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11:23 PM on 10/22/2011
I aint wrong Omaha.My wife can go about the house butt naked and it would be okay with me. In public she is always GQ and we black so braids is second nature. I have never been offended by what she wear and me and Jesus be buddies so---
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HGfromOmaha
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11:28 PM on 10/22/2011
As I said in another post, you have nothing but your "belief". You have no evidence. Of course nobody can argue "faith". It's the old fall-back.
But the bottom line is this. Only the dead know if there is a God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, Satan, Angels, etc. They're the only ones that know and they're not telling.
Anything else? Your faith & belief is all you have. No proof. You can have your beliefs. That's personal. Nobody can begrudge you that. Just don't use YOUR belief to tear down someone elses belief. You wouldn't like it if they did it to you.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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12:51 AM on 10/23/2011
Omaha my God is God. All others are pretenders to the throne. There is nothing you can say or do to tear down God. I have seen hell. I know it is real. I have seen and been healed by the touch of an angel. I have seen God high and lifted up on His throne. You can play patty cake ifn you want to. However dont be trying to talk to me if you qwine to mix light wit darkness. The sexually immoral are sinning and need to repent. They do not inspire one to righteousness. They spose to lay down their burden not tote it around like a talisman.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:47 PM on 10/23/2011
Omaha the monitors removed your post but I will respond. First off i be talking likes I do cause it irks uppity peoples and I likes the rhythm. Yall always be trying to correct my speech or suggest I take an English course. Brotha I knows what I be saying!
Noah preached for 500 years: " It's gwine to rain folks. " It had never rained before. They thought he was crazy too. But guess what? They was banging on his door for long when the flood waters came!
Most people with near death expierences claim they go to heaven. I went to the other place. Trust me. Nobody want to be there. Technically I didnt actually enter hell. I skirted the borders but the sights and sounds and smells along the way were more than enough to haunt my being.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:47 PM on 10/23/2011
I had been choking with an asthma attack and suddenly I found myself being pushed through a tunnel at an unbelievably fast speed. i was deposited on the darkened shore of a very eerie place. The darkness was so black and thick you you feel and taste it. The taste was like charcoal and the air was suffocating and filled with screams and moaning. I was shoved into a boat and the boatman rowed me to the opposite shores of a murky lake. i was a teenager an had done nothing I thought sufficient to land me in that place. I was offended at the thought of being labeled a sinner. Didnt drink. Didnt smoke. I wasnt in a gang. Wasnt no bodies baby daddy. Didnt sass my momma. Didnt play that boogy woogy. Went to church twice every Sunday! Got straight A's in class. Why would God be mad at me? Yet there I was. I was perplexed. I couldnt really see anything but I could feel the presence of someone approaching me so I screamed:" Let me out of here. Somebody made a mistake! Help Lord!" Immediately I was in my own room safe and sound. Next day I was the first one in the line to be saved!
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StevenM
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03:53 AM on 10/23/2011
Re: "Paul lacked the authority to specifically dictate what another mans wife could wear!"
You're funny.
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HGfromOmaha
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07:01 PM on 10/23/2011
jaggeththewires...this thread is all jacked up but it is what it is. I'll respond here. Hope you see this.
You have a right to believe what you believe. I don't think anybody will begrudge you that. The problem is when folks try to convince others that their way is right.
No matter what you say, how passionate you are about your beliefs and such, the fact remains that what you wrote about is a personal incident that only you will know whether or not it's fabricated or not. Only you know. The human body does all sorts of things when in a crisis mode. Having an asthma attack is a crisis mode.
Now, if were sitting at your desk at work, or in school, and a hole in the sky appeared and you saw the things you saw, and others saw it as well, then you'd have grounds to stand on. But you already had an understanding of "Heaven and Hell". You had already been in church. So your subconscious took over. Your brain starving for oxygen. But, once again, it's your experience. I can't knock it. Believe what you will.
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jaggeththewires
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09:06 PM on 10/23/2011
Okay Omaha, How about this one. I was in my twenties and running late for work. i was rushing across a bridge. There was construction going on and there was only one very narrow path to walk on to get across the bridge. There was this huge fellow in front of me taking up all the room in my path. he was wearing a light blue raincoat and had blonde fuzzy hair. He shoulders were extremely wide like he was on steroids. In my rush I bumped into him. We paused and he said he was glad we ran into each other. he had a folder in his hand and said his boss wanted me to have lunch with . he said his bossed helped out people who were struggling . I was about to purchase my first home and was a little short on cash. i didnt trust him. I rushed passed smh. I took two steps and froze. I had bumped into a blonde man in a blue coat. however, i had been conversating with a female who was brunette and wearing a pink coat. I turned around and he/she was gone. There was no where this person coulda went unless they jumped the bridge. That evening at the closing table I found out my required down-payment had been cut in half!
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HGfromOmaha
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07:03 PM on 10/23/2011
My point remains and I there is no man that can convince me otherwise.
Only the dead know. Everything else is a guess at best.
Do what you feel you have to to achieve your own peace. Just don't try to put your beliefs on others. You wouldn't like it if others tried to do it to you.
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jaggeththewires
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08:29 PM on 10/23/2011
Omaha I serve the one an only true and living God why would I care what any body has to say? It appears you the one can be swayed by the wind. I, know Him in whom I believe.
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HGfromOmaha
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09:11 PM on 10/23/2011
Oh please don't get it twisted. I don't blow with the wind or am swayed easily. I am unequivocally convinced that 99.999%m of the people who consider themselves to be so-called Christians are nothing more than hypocrites who are caught up in their own self-righteousness. You know....the kind of people that Jesus preached against and condemned.
Of course you don't care what anyone else says! You're too caught up in your own spiritual wonderfulness and self-righteousness!
Unless you can prove otherwise, the indisputable fact remains; only the dead know.
And guess what? You can't prove otherwise!
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HGfromOmaha
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09:53 PM on 10/23/2011
I guess you missed the part I wrote earlier about personal incidents. I find it interesting that your Jesus is White with blonde hair. And muscular. Whatever works for you.
I also find it interesting, that there are millions in this country and around the world, with cancer, heart disease, lung disease, paralysis, and all other sorts of ailments, who pray every day, yet God doesn't do anything for them. When I was visiting my Father in the cancer ward, a minister for 52 years, his Father, also a minister for 50 plus years, both died of cancer. Yet God couldn't do anything for them? Really? You have kids in the cancer ward, dying. Babies born with all sorts of diseases and they die. Their body literally falls to pieces.
And yet here you are. You get a reduced rate on your home loan and that's some sort of reference to God?
My brother said the same thing about his house. He would never get in that house if it weren't for God. Got up and testified and was telling anyone that would listen that God gave him the house. Then the housing market crashed, his home value plunged and now he is underwater with his mortgage.
As I said, believe what you do. That's your business. I don't buy it.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:47 PM on 10/23/2011
Omaha it is appointed unto man to die. However if we die as a believer we know that we shall live again. Swish, you missed it. The fact is that I saw an touched an angel. he was rushing. i was rushing but we clashed! The angel did appear as a white person Jesus however has been described as having skin of bronze. At the time I was in good health. i didnt need a healing. I needed cash so yeah reducing my mortgage was the right blessing for me! btw my kid still live in that house which is paid for!
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HGfromOmaha
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02:14 PM on 10/24/2011
Ha! on "Swish, you missed it". Now, that's original! Have to laugh at that one!
Anyway, you and I will never agree. It's quite obvious that you have your belief and I have no problem with you believing what you do. As I said, don't push it on me and I'm fine.
You still completely miss the point but that's ok. That's like saying "Boom! You're blinded by religion just like the Pharisees!"
But hey. It's your life. Live it how you want. Believe what you want. I'll say it a million times. Believe what you want. Just don't push your belief on me.
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jaggeththewires
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03:01 PM on 10/24/2011
Omaha why come you believe people who are not obeying God themselves can in any way inspire others to do so? People spose to do as the say while seeing the evil they do and proudly proclaim!
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HGfromOmaha
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12:18 AM on 10/25/2011
jagge....we're going to run out of room to reply! I just got in from a long day on the road. I'm tired but will respond very quickly to your post. I'm really not sure what you're asking me. I think you asked how come I believe that people who are not obeying God themselves can in any way inspire others?
Well, I don't believe that. I believe that the majority of the current people who call themselves are hypocrites. I think they use Christianity as a label and not as a life experience. They want to "fit in" and not be associated with Satan so they claim Christ, while their very lives reflect what we consider to be immoral behavior.
The Bible clearly states that you can't serve two Masters. Yet, you have people who claim to follow Christ, behaving in ways that are clearly outlawed in the Bible. This modern day sect of "Pick N Choose Christianity" is destroying lives worldwide.
I would rather show up at Judgment Day knowing that I have no allegiance to any church and let my life's record speak for itself. I would put my record and life's work up against ANY of the so-called Christians.
Unlike most, I've studied and educated myself regarding my beliefs. I just don't regurgitate what some guy in a pulpit told me. Being educated doesn't make me smart but I'm able to discern Biblical hypocrisy and call things as they are.
Anyway, that's all.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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07:17 PM on 10/25/2011
So how did you educate yourself on your beliefs? You aint dead. You dont believe the book or the preacher. You dont believe any one living has communicated with Him. Where did you glean your wisdom Omaha???
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:32 PM on 10/23/2011
Hey Steve aint the church suppose to be dolling ourselves up like a bride adorned for her husband? Why come you want us to be going around in sackcloth n ashes?
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StevenM
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07:50 PM on 10/23/2011
Your metaphors don't even make any sense. Do you hide behind them because you have nothing of substance to say?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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08:32 PM on 10/23/2011
Steve you know exactly what I said and it blew you out the water! Ha!
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BoyThreeOne
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01:58 PM on 10/26/2011
I'm a Christian, but you aren't an example for me of anything but pride, self-righteous judgment and the false equating of material gain with God's favor. I pray that love will touch you one day.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:08 PM on 10/26/2011
Boy, Jaggy done submitted my will unto the will of God. He say jump I say how high Lord? I, aint the one trying to rewrite the book! God the one gave the judgement and rendered the sentence for disobedience not me. If you gots a problem with that tell it to the Judge!
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suec03
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03:31 PM on 10/22/2011
I have heard that the problem is with the interpretation of the word that has been translated in English editions as "abomination." I have heard more than one person with theological training explain that the passage means that homosexual ritual practices were outside of the religious practices of the Israelites. This was to explain Jewish religious ritual by contrasting it with Roman or other pagan homosexual rituals. It was explained that this Biblical passage did not address homosexuality outside of religious ceremonies.
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bcbcol09
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03:39 PM on 10/22/2011
I agree. You must acknowledge your own personal truth, but the whole point behind that is to align your will with God's will (easier said than done sometimes). But it's not okay to openly engage in sin!
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aviandonn
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03:59 PM on 10/22/2011
I'm sure the Christians in the list are indeed reading the same bible. Funny thing that, hu? So many Christians who aren't getting the same message from god that you are.
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Salty too
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04:55 PM on 10/22/2011
They are playing church and ignoring what they don't agree with. This is true with many people, including many Christians and make believe Christians.
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see-ellen2001
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04:15 PM on 10/22/2011
The same bible where the daughters plan to preserve their father's seed...yes in the biblical sense. So incest is a-ok?
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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06:11 PM on 10/22/2011
Seems interesting how they gloss over that bit of extreme-breeding heterosexuality immediately after the part where they ignore the hospitality laws and assume that *obviously* in a city famed for being afraid of strangers, there was obviously a mob of 'gay agenda' that just had to do some angel-rapin', or else. :)
Apparently, the idea is that Lot got wasted and was pointing at a city that got nuked from orbit and a pillar of salt, and was like, 'See, girls, this is all about buttsecs. People really have to be breeders.' 'But we're the only people left in the world, Dad?"
Really just a long
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upndacity
leave my mirco-bio out of this .
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11:31 PM on 10/25/2011
The BIble . . . yes, the book that says slavery is okay. Gone out and taken any slaves from neighboring villages by force lately?
It's okay with God!!!
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hopingheart
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01:01 PM on 10/22/2011
You're telling us that you alone have a direct link to hearing God's voice. C'mon, son! It just ain't true!
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:25 PM on 10/22/2011
Me? Alone? Why come you say that? God always got a remnant of committed servants wuth an ear to hear what the Spirit of God be saying.
If the hom dont want to be obeying God why come they want to claim to be part of the fold???
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Salty too
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04:57 PM on 10/22/2011
" Let the ignorant be ignorant" (Jesus Christ". " Don't cast your pearls before swine" (Jesus Christ).
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Stand Up for your Belief
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01:39 PM on 10/22/2011
Preach!!!!
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:43 PM on 10/22/2011
Well He told us to tell them!
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Salty too
God bless America .
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04:58 PM on 10/22/2011
" Cry aloud and spare not" !!! My micro-bio says it all.
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StevenM
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02:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "C'mon son! Their chosen lifestyle is in direct opposition to the direction of God."
C'mon son! There is no gay lifestyle, it is only homophobic bigotry which thinks that there is.
Re: "People who give God lip service but have no intention or desire to follow His command worship in vain. God aint hearing it!"
That might be truer than you think! When a person preaches hatred towards others, such lip service is far from God's love and compassion towards others. God aint hearing it!
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Lucy0808
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03:38 PM on 10/22/2011
Why are you so obsessed with sexualparts and how they are used with love? It is very very strange. Of all the things to be obsessed with, here you are. These people are born to homosexuality and they are only expressing love. That these are preachers and dedicate their lives to doing good works, they are following Jesus' way. Are you doing that? I would guess that you have a great deal of material goods and income and yet don't give even 15% of your money to the least among us, or a day a week to helping the least among us. Is every action in your life, one of love, of forgiveness and helping the least among us? Are you just obsessed with institutional shariah and miss the entire point of Jesus' teachings?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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03:46 PM on 10/22/2011
What sexual parts? Tongue an anus are not human sex organs. You the one confusing love with lusts. The first "good work" they need to be doing is submitting their self will to the will of God. As for me you have no idea what I do but even if i did nothing it still would not justify the sinful proclaiming to be an inspiration.
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Lucy0808
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03:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Love is expressed in many ways. Intimacy and closeness expressed are part of love. Your definition of "lust" misses the entire point.
Your post is sad. Other religions are far more open about human sexuality and expression of love both separate and with it. Why does it matter? You are the one that is obsessed with it because you make it an issue. It isn't. It is just another way to express love. There are many ways.
These people are people of love and Jesus' way. That is clear.
You have a dark mind that sees dark things. It is part of your subjective mind. It is in your head. Open your mind and heart. Let love clear out the darkness. Learn to practice compassion, forgiveness, helping the least among us, and giving up your material goods.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:07 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy my next door neighbor just passed. Come to find out she been shacking up wit Mr T. for the past 40 years. They were not married. In fact Mr. T got a wife and kids down in Atlanta. They was the sweetest couple. I'd a never guessed they wasnt hubby and wife, Never heard em fighting. They was always hugged up doing something together. You think St, Peter let her in the gate cause she was in a loving relationship wit another woman's husband?
God requires obediance. It is much better than sacrifice or lip service.
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Lucy0808
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06:18 PM on 10/22/2011
You missed the core teachings of Jesus. You are hardly a person who can throw the first stone. Your posts show blindness. Jesus provided a way to build an open and compassionate hearts. One of love, forgiveness, and helping the least among us. Here you are being a god and judging other folks. How is that helpful? How do you even know anything? Where is love, forgiveness and helping the least among us? Where are the material riches that prevent you from entering the way of life. You can't thread the head of a needle unless you understand this way of love.
Open your heart.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:24 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy God gave the judgement. He said it is abomination. He gave the sentence...All sexually immoral people will be barred from the kingdom of God. i didnt write the book. Jaggy just believe God meant what He said.
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Lucy0808
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10:21 PM on 10/22/2011
This is one of the most shallow minded and self-righteous dark posts I have read here: "Lucy God gave the judgement. He said it is abomination. He gave the sentence...All sexually immoral people will be barred from the kingdom of God. i didnt write the book. Jaggy just believe God meant what He said. "
That you post such stuff is really sad. Good luck with your life and your path. May you find the love Jesus preached.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:34 PM on 10/22/2011
“This is one of the most shallow minded and self-righteous dark posts I have read here: "Lucy God gave the judgement. He said it is abomination. He gave the sentence...All sexually immoral people will be barred from the kingdom of God. i didnt write the book. Jaggy just believe God meant what He said. "
That you post such stuff is really sad. Good luck with your life and your path. May you find the love Jesus preached.”
Lucy would you rather I post lies????
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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11:29 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy, love your daughter enough to tell her the truth! All sexual immorality is sin!
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aviandonn
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04:02 PM on 10/22/2011
The Christians on that list think they speak for god too. I guess you're going to have to battle it out with them.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:49 PM on 10/22/2011
A Christian obeys God. Those people are giving Him the middle finger!
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Andres64
Religion is a sectually transmitted disease. .
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04:22 PM on 10/22/2011
--Their chosen
You think being gay is a choice? When did you choose to be hetero? What were you before this decision? What factors did you consider when making your choice? Did you try it?
--lifestyle is in direct opposition to the direction of God.
Says who?
--How is that an inspiration to do anything but sin?
Who says it's a sin?
--People who give God lip service but have no intention or desire to follow His command worship in vain. God aint hearing it!
So you follow all 600+ laws? Eat shellfish? Work on the Sabbath? Wear mixed fibers?
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whatsupcastleman
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04:39 PM on 10/22/2011
You wouldn't accuse a US citizen of breaking French driving laws in the United States, would you ?
Applying ceremonial and civil laws of the Old Covenant to a Christian in the New Covenant, does not make them out to be hypocrites.
However, some Christians are just as bad at interpreting the text in historical context.
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Andres64
Religion is a sectually transmitted disease. .
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04:47 PM on 10/22/2011
--“You wouldn't accuse a US citizen of breaking French driving laws in the United States, would you ?
No. What does that have to do with anything?
--Applying ceremonial and civil laws of the Old Covenant to a Christian in the New Covenant, does not make them out to be hypocrites.
It does if they expect others to follow them.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:46 PM on 10/22/2011
It is abomination requires no interpretation! It is what it is...
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:44 PM on 10/22/2011
Het is as natural as breathing out an in. Doctor took one look at my jimmy and declared a man child is born! Yall the ones going through all that drama. God who is the Creator of man said it is abomination. That settles it for me. Again Jesus death and resurrection fulfilled the law. We now live under the dispensation of grace. However, we are still male and female created to mate with the opposite sex. Dont obey. Just dont try to switch up what God say. k?
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Andres64
Religion is a sectually transmitted disease. .
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06:13 PM on 10/22/2011
--“Het is as natural as breathing out an in.
So in gay. It has been observed in 1,500 species
--Doctor took one look at my jimmy and declared a man child is born!
Yeah. A big penis is the measure of a straight man.
--Yall the ones going through all that drama. God who is the Creator of man said it is abomination.
Do you follow all 600+ laws of this god of yours?
--That settles it for me.
Good for you. Fortunately, you don't get to tell others how to live.
--Again Jesus death and resurrection fulfilled the law.
So your god "sacrificing" himself to himself "saved" us from what he is/was going to do to us for doing *exactly* as he *knew* we would do *before* he created us *exactly* as he wanted?
--We now live under the dispensation of grace.
Meaning?
-- However, we are still male and female created to mate with the opposite sex.
Prove we were created.
--Dont obey. Just dont try to switch up what God say. k?”
Prove your god exists.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:45 PM on 10/22/2011
64, we have dominion over the beast of the fiels. We aint suppose to emulate them!
Didn't say how big my jimmy is but thanks for recognizing. Cant tittilate what a brotha cant be reaching,lol
I aint told nary a hom how he gots to live. What I did say is ifn he want to live in the world to come he gots to obey God in this one.
The dispensation of Gods grace is just that, We believe that Christ has already paid the price for our sins. No amount of lambs or turtledoves could settle the debt for sin. God loves us so much that he paid the ransom for us. And by the way God knowing in advance that we would sin isn't the cause of us sinning. What is does is display His divine love. While we were yet His enemies he died for us.
You prove God doesn't exist!
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Andres64
Religion is a sectually transmitted disease. .
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07:32 PM on 10/22/2011
--“64, we have dominion over the beast of the fiels. We aint suppose to emulate them!
Says who?
--I aint told nary a hom how he gots to live. What I did say is ifn he want to live in the world to come he gots to obey God in this one.
Says who?
--The dispensation of Gods grace is just that,
Says who?
--We believe that Christ has already paid the price for our sins.-No amount of lambs or turtledoves could settle the debt for sin. God loves us so much that he paid the ransom for us.
Price? Why not just forgive? No bloody "sacrifice" required.
--And by the way God knowing in advance that we would sin isn't the cause of us sinning.
He is responsible. He created us *exactly* as he wanted and we do *exactly* as he *knew* we would *before* he created us.
--What is does is display His divine love. While we were yet His enemies he died for us.
We were your god's enemies?
--You prove God doesn't exist!”
Not how it works. You make a claim (God exists) *you* provide the evidence.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:04 PM on 10/22/2011
64 God make the rules. We exist for His, pleasure. I know He lives. You gots to discover Him for yourself!
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tomp0228
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12:22 PM on 10/22/2011
If only the LGBT comminity and Christians could somehow be on the same page. As a Christian, my goal is to tell people the good news that Jesus brought us. That news is that ALL can be saved by accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The bible teaches that to practice homosexuality is wrong. We all have our own sins to bear, and gays have the the sin of homosexuality. Just as I may want to lie or cheat or steal, the gay wants to engage in sexual relations with the same sex. That's pretty natural, as we all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
Jesus came into the world not to condemn us, but to save us. When we trust in Christ, the urge to sin might not go away, but He will give us the strength to overcome that sin.
Since we all fall short, gays might not always win that war against practicing homosexuality, just as I might not win that battle to lie, cheat or, steal. However, if we'll repent, He is faithful to forgive our sin.
My prayer is that gays will know that homosexuality is sin, (Please note that I'm a sinner as well) but also that the grace of God can prevail over all sin, if only we'll trust Him and allow Him to work in our lives.
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Lucy0808
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04:16 PM on 10/23/2011
Being gay is not the same as lying, cheating. Heterosexuals engage in sex and are they sinning? Lying hurts another if done for the wrong reasons. Cheating or stealing takes from another. Sex with a partner is an affirmation of love and not hurting anyone, and in fact, being loving. The bigotry and poorly thought positioning is offensive and absurd.
The bible has lists of sins that include hundreds of items including food one eats and the cloth one wears and who you are eating with. It allows and treats as a jolly affair (not a sin) slavery and the subjugation of women and selling people into slavery. It allows the completer eradication of villages and every man, woman, and child if god so agrees. The Christians pick their sins. Most of the sins aren't even thought of sins in todays world and most Christians don't live their lives as if those sins were relevant. Why? Yet here you are going on about a specific thing that isn't really a sin, but you believe it should be thought of one today.
I'll be blunt. This is not religion by cherry picking and not thinking about what these are. This is bigotry. Love is love. You are not here saying lies are ok if they save someone's life or protect someone. You are not saying that homosexuality and sex is fine if one is expressing love, and if not it isn't.
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tomp0228
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07:01 PM on 10/23/2011
I wish I could agree with yuor assertions, however, if you read the scriptures thoroughly, you'll find that you're the one cherry picking the bible. God has covered each of the supposed old testament sins in His new covenant. We can agree that some things seem strange to us, but we have to remember scripture tells us God's ways are not like our ways and our ways are not like God's. He says in Proverbs 1:7 that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Unfortunatley, people of the present now seem to believe they know more than God. Have you ever wondered what you'll have to say to the one awesome God when you meet Him?
The truth isn't always fun, but it's always the truth. My prayers are with you, friend.
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Lucy0808
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07:48 PM on 10/23/2011
You missed a big point and you are incorrect in this regard.
The New Testament was created decades after the death of Jesus. That truth may not be fun. It was created from people who never even met him or heard him.
You are incorrect. People are on this thread quote all kinds of passages of the bible. Both New Testament and Old Testament quotes. Not all Christians are like you and say that only the New Testament counts. There are so many sects that differ in this regard. You just represent one opinion from one sect. Christianity has hundreds of sects and is abt 1900 yrs old. Please take a pause and get a little perspective.
There is no reason to think you represent all of Christianity. That was the reason for my post, my friend. Please take a little time and put things in perspective. You neither speak for all of Christianity nor do you speak for god. Both of those latter points are facts which I think you can appreciate.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:11 PM on 10/23/2011
Tompo, We believe, we repent and we submit our will to His Jesus is the Christians Savior and Lord.A hom know He lives but he denies his own state of being and need for repentance and refuses to bow down. Yet for some strange reason he wants to be recognized as one of the called. Did He call us to remain in our sins? What Christ die for if we can skip any which a way into the kingdom?
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tomp0228
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07:05 PM on 10/23/2011
You ask great questions. I hope all will see that it's not up to us to decide which commandments are right. My prayers are with you.
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jsaiditfirst
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11:58 AM on 10/22/2011
Hmmmm........lets see, LGBT card, check!
Unity with God card, che......what the..............hey, wheres my card? Oh what the HELL?
Oh well, I doubt anyone will even ask me if I have that card anyway!
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dpavsek
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11:37 AM on 10/22/2011
It is so sad that not one Roman Catholic made the list. Not surprising though, since the Vatican is so homophobic and any RC religious leader who ventures out in support of LGBT catholics is slapped down hard and fast.
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hopingheart
We can succeed only if we find a way together... .
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01:02 PM on 10/22/2011
Yes, sad. I could post the name and photo of a gay priest I admire, who's done good work, and lives openly with his partner, but he'd suffer the consequences.
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Loggietoad
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11:23 AM on 10/22/2011
This is so sad. So many misled, confused people.
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Lucy0808
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12:13 PM on 10/22/2011
Not "misled". They are people who preach Jesus' teachings of love, forgiveness, and helping the least among us. They are not confused, but are following the way.
It is the bigots that are blind and miss the entire point. The blindness is astonishing.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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12:57 PM on 10/22/2011
Heard Jesus said"Outside the gate are the dogs!"
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hopingheart
We can succeed only if we find a way together... .
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01:03 PM on 10/22/2011
Yes, but within the gates of Jesus's love, these lgbt leaders keep the homophobic dogs at bay.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:28 PM on 10/22/2011
Quit using that word. We aint afraid of yall. You are just sinners like the thief or murderer. When was the last time you let the village thug watch over your house while you was on vacation?
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Lucy0808
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01:48 PM on 10/22/2011
Hypocracy drips off your post. It is sad. Very sad.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:03 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy, where was the hypocrisy in any of my post? Why would God leave the shepherding of His church in the hands of people who are not of His kingdom? The sexually immoral have no fellowship with holiness. Yall the ones trying to mix the threads!
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Lucy0808
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02:27 PM on 10/22/2011
Your hypocracy and obsession shows your blindness and shallowness. Yes, your posts drip hypocracy and are exactly why I left Christianity. The misuse of scripture, but worse, the complete cluelessness of not understanding the most basic premise of a path of love.
Those that are homosexual have no choice. It is biological. Those that love whether heterosexual or homosexual are loving other human beings. That is only good and part of the way. More love in the world is part of the way.
Your post is mean-spirited and obsessed with shariah. You miss the entire point of Jesus' teachings. You read words and don't understand the ideas. You condemn constantly and don't understand that Jesus was not about condemning, but about inclusion, love, forgiveness and helping the least among us. I'm sure you haven't even rid yourself of all of your property and help the least among us. I bet the odds are 99.999% you haven't.
“Lucy, where was the hypocrisy in any of my post? Why would God leave the shepherding of His church in the hands of people who are not of His kingdom? The sexually immoral have no fellowship with holiness. Yall the ones trying to mix the threads!”
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Lucy0808
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01:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Bigots deny the way of Jesus is the way of love. They are fond of their institutional shariah and the feeling of self-righteousness and being the elite of heaven while 99.99% are tortured for eternity. Minds like that are not about love. It is human biology.
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Jake Thomas
elastic .
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09:55 PM on 10/22/2011
Exactly, perfect point.
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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01:35 PM on 10/22/2011
Typical. Treating 'man's best friend' as something bad and dirty, then trying to close the 'gates' on em. :)
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StevenM
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12:21 PM on 10/22/2011
As opposed to what, having a religion whose teaching is rooted in bigotry and homophobia?
I spent the first half of my life attending a conservative Church, and the second half attending a mainline "progressive" Church. So much of conservative theology is rooted in hatred. They hate the communists (this was a big deal back in the 60s and 70s), they hate socialists, they hate abortion, they hate this and that. Their list on what is wrong was long, and varied from one conservative Church to another. Some were anti-Catholic, and all were anti-gay. The Southern Baptists supported slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, and fought against federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights. The bigotry, bitterness, and hatred I found among many conservatives became tiresome. I found great peace, joy, and love among in a mainline Church. The focus was no longer on why everyone is wrong, but what we can do to help others.
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Loggietoad
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03:08 PM on 10/22/2011
I guess we have different experiences
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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04:39 PM on 10/22/2011
Go back and re-read your original message. Without even knowing the people you were writing about, you condemned them because they don't share your particular religious beliefs. Where was the love? Where was the compassion?
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Loggietoad
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06:02 PM on 10/22/2011
There was no condemnation. Believing that someone is wrong, confused, or misled is not condemnation.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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06:28 PM on 10/22/2011
You didn't say that there were merely wrong in their theology, you pontificated that they were "sad" and "confused." How would you know this to be true unless you knew them? And if you didn't know them, isn't such a statement merely a condemnation?
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Loggietoad
Libertarian Combat Veteran .
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06:44 PM on 10/22/2011
Steven,
I have no desire to continue in conversation with you after this. It is for no other reason than I believe that you fit the Biblical definition of a "scoffer." Your theology is directed by your agenda, rather than your agenda directed by your theology.
I never called any of these people sad but rather than this situation is sad. They may be completely happy in evert aspect of their lives. My statement is regards to their confusion is in reference to how absolutely wrong they are about what the Bible says about homosexuality.
You can think someone is wrong without condemning them. I have no doubt, however, that is the absence of true repentance they will all face true and eternal condemnation.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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08:47 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "My statement is regards to their confusion is in reference to how absolutely wrong they are about what the Bible says about homosexuality."
You are the one confused. Where did any of them make any statement about what the Bible says about homosexuality? That's your problem, you make things up and then proclaim them as fact.
Re: "I believe that you fit the Biblical definition of a "scoffer."
Again, something you just made up out of thin air. None of the messages which I've written have scoffed.
Re: "Your theology is directed by your agenda, rather than your agenda directed by your theology."
Again and again, you make false accusations up out of thin air. You don't know me, you don't know my theology. At best, you have seen just one thin sliver of my theological positions, certainly not enough to pass judgement.
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Stand Up for your Belief
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01:39 PM on 10/22/2011
I agree with you!
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abuja19
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02:54 PM on 10/22/2011
The only misled person seems to be you.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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08:26 AM on 10/22/2011
When God placed man then woman in the Garden for his helpmeet, so he would not be alone, God knew his commandment not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would not be obeyed. Nonetheless, He allowed us to multiply and fill this earth even after He knew the power within ourselves not do evil would cause the chaos we now consist of. So let this Bishop, the like-minded, the atheist, the Satanist, the legalist, or any worldly-minded individual make their proclamations or put their beliefs into action that are not in the Will of God, He is still in control. Taking His Word in its entirety is something he will not force on anyone. However, the non-repentant will have a bill to pay, which in Jesus Christ, has become null and void.
Matthew 22:35-40 King James Version
Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
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az0th
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09:34 AM on 10/22/2011
OK, you can step down from the pulpit now.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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06:17 PM on 10/22/2011
Peace.
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Lucy0808
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12:14 PM on 10/22/2011
These people listed in the article are doing just that.
Jesus said to love, be compassionate and forgive, help the least among us, and give up all the material goods.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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01:57 PM on 10/22/2011
God before the foundation of the earth has decided how our works and faith in Him are justified. If a man or woman modifies what He has put in place, He will not have any part of them. Therefore, if we commit one transgression against His Word, it is as if we have committed them all. We will stand guilty before God and He will hold us accountable in judgment.
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Lucy0808
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02:03 PM on 10/22/2011
So speaks god's mouth. So speaks gods representative and spokesperson.
Jesus' way is not about shariah. He badgered the Pharasees for missing the point. He preached the way of love and compassion, forgiveness, helping the least among us, getting rid of our material trappings. An open heart and a mind that is open to truth that is before one.
I understand that you are into that shariah thing. So be it. It is your right to your subjective belief and mental machinations. However, there is no reason I should assume that you are god's spoke person on Earth. In fact, there is every reason to assume you are not.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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05:44 PM on 10/22/2011
Okay.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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05:50 PM on 10/22/2011
I am sorry, I forgot to say peace to you.
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Lucy0808
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05:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Inshala
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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12:59 PM on 10/22/2011
We show our love for God by OBEYING Him! Look it up.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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02:13 PM on 10/22/2011
I think that is the point I made....
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:26 PM on 10/22/2011
If a point was made why come you trying to clarify it?
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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05:48 PM on 10/22/2011
What do you want? Whatever it is, I do not think that I am the one who can help you with it. Peace.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:13 PM on 10/22/2011
I have what I want crispy. I am forgiven!
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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06:46 PM on 10/22/2011
You do not get away so easy with that crispy statement, rude and arrogant. I read how you talked to Lucy. Having forgiveness, does not entitle you to act this way.
Titus 3 King James Version
1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates , to be ready to every good work, 2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
You should get the gist of the above scriptures, forgiven.
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Lucy0808
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03:42 PM on 10/22/2011
What a sad, sad statement.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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03:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Read it and weep Lucy!
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."''You gits to trust and obey!
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Lucy0808
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04:04 PM on 10/22/2011
You miss everything. What a sad, sad statement.
Love, forgive, help the least among us. Give up your material goods. Follow Jesus' way of compassion.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to GO AND SIN NO MORE! guess YOU missed that!
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Lucy0808
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06:04 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post: "Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to GO AND SIN NO MORE! guess YOU missed that! "
You aren't comprehending most of what I posted.
Love and expressing love is Jesus' way. Forgiveness. Helping the least among us. Giving up the material things. All of this to create a loving open heart. Loving people who happen to be homosexuals are still loving people. Expressing love is different then "betravel and trying to hurt someone". Adultery is betrayel of trust and love". It is not love. That you even think adultery is like people who are homosexuals and love each other as an open act of love, is pure cynicism and blindness.
You missed everything that I was posting about and instead focused on the shariah rules.
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dave377
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01:30 PM on 10/24/2011
ladycrisperfat wrote "Matthew 22:35-40 King James Version. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
To which jaggeththewires wrote "We show our love for God by OBEYING Him! Look it up."
To which I respond: re-read the quote again. Jesus says the second commandment is "like unto" the first commandment. BOTH commandments are that we LOVE: God and others as if they were us. Jesus commanded LOVE, not OBEDIENCE. LOVE is the key. If you LOVE, then you will likely do the RIGHT THING. People who OBEY tend to be literal and blind, like the Pharisees. Jesus never used the word OBEY about what he said. Never. He used words like LOVE, and TRUTH, and SPIRIT. Never OBEDIENCE.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:40 PM on 10/24/2011
Dave we love God by obeying Him. You cant do the second command (love one another) unless you are obeying the first. Jesus said: "If you love me DO WHAT I SAY'
That sound like he wants us to obey His commandments!
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim.
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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01:37 PM on 10/22/2011
If it's 'not good for a man to be alone,' why do you insist it's holy to ...demand LGBT people be alone, just cause you believe your Adam was straight? :)
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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02:27 PM on 10/22/2011
Genesis 2 (King James Version)
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gavenames to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept : and he tookone of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh . 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
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LintLass
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06:18 PM on 10/22/2011
Well, that doesn't say why it's supposed to be good for LGBT people to be alone. Where you got your major nudity hangups, I dunno either. Blaming the gays for *that,* too? What is this, the Defense Department? :)
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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06:21 PM on 10/22/2011
See, If I can spell that out for you, that book says that your God made a straight dude, and then said outloud all kinds of things about that dude. But are you saying he didn't mean it when he said 'But non-straight people, you can make them be alone all you want?' :)
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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06:24 PM on 10/22/2011
Or, rather when you say he said what he didn't say some author said he said.
He said, according to your book, 'It's not good for a man to be alone.' Why do you think that means it's good to force LGBT people to be alone? Never mind gives you the *right?*
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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07:08 PM on 10/22/2011
I am alone and have been for 30 years now. I was alone even when I was shacking up with the man I was in love with for eleven years before that. I have had my heart broken more times than I want to count or want to remember. I have learned that God Grace is sufficent and weeping endures just for a night. If the God I serve is not for you, then press on with your life. Leave what I say in the dust. Peace.
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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02:04 AM on 10/23/2011
I have to ask... If you've been alone for thirty years, and consider the 'marriage' you spew Bible hate to condemn others for not trying to be 'shacking up...'
Again, why do you think your God says 'It's not good for a man to be alone,' and then try to demand all queer people be alone?
What you *say* is *hate* and will neither make your straight marriage not-'shacking up,' nor make your solitary devotions to your God any more sacred, for trying to make someone else suffer for it.
Personally, I've often felt that perhaps I loved my Gods better than the people I was with, and not for lack of loving the people... But when someone quotes books as you do to tear me away from the *people* I love, it does no good Gods any service, nor does it turn either of us straight nor make nor make either of us any *better* at serving any Gods.
Things you advocate doing with your book are not 'Grace,' they are *hatred, blame, and weapons against others,* and perhaps indeed yourself.
Funny thing: nothing to do with being a queer gal, but if *my* Lady had said, "Nah, Just Me and Only Me," I'd have been *there.* Bang. Frankly, sometimes it's hard to not be.
Maybe She said, something like "It's not good for *you* to be alone" to a simple Pagan like myself.
Certainly, never mind try and hurt others over it.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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06:47 AM on 10/23/2011
This is the last time I am going to respond to you, lintlass I said that God Grace is sufficient. I gave no excuses for my wrongdoing. If my life had ended when I was going through that time in my life, I would have opened my eyes in hell and worthy of the lake of fire on the Day of Judgment. Why would I expect anything more now that I see that His Grace is sufficient and Jesus loves me now as He did then? I was wrong, wrong, wrong, hoping I could make it right by my own will. Thanks to God, that let me lived. Now take the advice I gave you, press on with your life, and see what the end going to be. It seems that you are in a place of misery and need someone to take it out on. If I am wrong, forgive me. I will be praying for you. Peace.
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Andres64
Religion is a sectually transmitted disease. .
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06:50 PM on 10/22/2011
Remember that god only created woman/Eve *after* Adam rejected all the animals as a "helpmeet". What if Adam took a fancy to the goat?
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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08:32 PM on 10/22/2011
It said nothing about Adam looking for a mate in the animals. He just named them. God already knew that He was going to create the woman for the man. Those word of no mate was found for Adam was stated so mankind would know that it is only a woman and man that God deems good for each other as husband and wife.
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Andres64
Religion is a sectually transmitted disease. .
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08:56 PM on 10/22/2011
--“It said nothing about Adam looking for a mate in the animals.
Genesis 2:20 "but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."
Why would god think that there might be a help meet?
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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10:45 PM on 10/22/2011
He did not think that there was a helpmeet in the animals for Adam. He had created everything of this earth before he made and put Adam in the garden. All the animals had their mates. Adam was innocent and knew not of these kinds things. Don’t you think he took notice of how the animals were pairs off and wondered why there was no one for him in the Garden? God knows all and works on his own timeline he made mention of the helpmeet because he was going to do create the woman. However, it would not be until after the naming of all the animals. After the naming was over, God got to work and made woman from the man. They did not know that they were naked so there was no mating between the husband and wife at this time. As I said, Adam was innocent and so was his wife Eve until the fall.
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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01:40 AM on 10/23/2011
Moralists and the 'what ifs'. How is it you compare my marriage to *sex with goats* (Why is it always goats, anyway... Even if you're talking to gals) .....and then claim there's something about straight dudes that can't tell me from a goat unless I am coerced into sex with them? :)
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treven
We are the music makers... .
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05:55 AM on 10/22/2011
It's still comical how often people belittle another's belief or point of view, while demanding dogmatic adherance to their own. It does an atheist no good to simply say to a Christian, "there is no god", like all of a sudden the Christian will abandon what they firmly hold dear. And if the goslpel is foolishness to those that perish, Christians throwing out verses like they're blogging a tract won't achieve anything either. Quoting biblical texts out of context, which occurs prominently on both sides of the argument, is ignorant and disingenuous.
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Lucy0808
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12:17 PM on 10/22/2011
You are in error. They say "there is no objective proof of the gods". That is it. That is correct. If there was, people would believe.
Noone denies that you have a subjective belief in gods. That is your faith.
I am not an atheist.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:06 PM on 10/22/2011
satan believes, in fact he knows, there is a God. He just dont want to serve Him. God delivered the children of Isreal out of Egypt with a mighty hand and those wretches erected a golden calf and paid homage to that! We are surrounded by the mighty workings of an Almighty Being and yet debate the majesty of what our eyes behold. There is no excuse for doubting God's existence!
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head... .
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01:42 PM on 10/22/2011
Well, you certainly believe in your Satan, then, seem to see him in all kinds of people you hate, and from there derive a belief in your God? Interesting.
Always wondered what the homophobes were trying to 'prove.' :)
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:14 PM on 10/22/2011
Linty what is hateful about sounding a warning? What is hateful about telling the truth? When the last time you walked up to a thiff and patted him on the back telling him how proud you are of him for his last heist? When did you host a parade for a murderer? You want to sin go ahead even God give you the freewill to choose how you will live. Just own it and quit trying to make us coddle your lie!
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Lucy0808
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01:57 PM on 10/22/2011
The only honest person is one that says they do not know about the gods.
The rest are myth-mongers or those lost in the machinations of their own minds.
The absurdity of "serving" and being rewarded with afterlives vs. torturous hell for eternity is intersting. This is what is cognitive dissonance. It is so inconsistent between concepts. It is fundamentally unethical and unjust. It is the projection of the human hierarchy, petty, and emotionally disfunctional onto a perceived subjective construct of convenience. What is the utility of this projected god? That is the interesting question. What was the utility of the gods of Olympus or India's Hindu pantheon? I think we can guess. Even Aquilles believed he was protected by the gods as he stormed Troy. He knew he was protected by the gods. He perceived he was protected by the gods. Everything that happened that would fit that construct he made to fit the construct. The ventriloquist mind and projection.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:08 PM on 10/22/2011
Look around you Lucy all this didnt just fall into being! I know God reigns because He is alive in me AND ALL CREATION BESIDES MAN acknowledges Him!
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Lucy0808
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02:38 PM on 10/22/2011
I do. My life is as a scientist and attempt at Buddhism. It is all wonder. However, I don't assume and I don't believe your subjective machinations and self-created construct of faith. I don't. It is yours and you have a right to it. You don't have a right to take that unproven subjective projection and make it the law of the land. It is against the law to do so.
I make my life one of wonder by my profession. We discover more and work to create the great body of knowledge by a process that is the most objective available today. The utility is in the pudding so to speak. It works. Far more than anything produced by religions. The truths are far more resounding and poignant. Whereas your subjective belief system is the monkey-primate-Homo Sapien projection, the other processes offer a way to escape the subjective simple illusion of the Homo Sapien mind. So far the truths and knowledge have opened up many minds. I don't have to give the thing we study "a homo sapien subjective projected construct". We are asking questions, as part of an age of reason and science and finding out through a different pathway. Far more powerful. I don't assume a disfunctional god of the Christians with a temper and disfunctional behavior putting most humanity into torture for eternity. I experience wonder and keep an open mind and held to the rigor of reason and scientific process.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:47 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy, God made all this! I dont assume anything. My faith declares it. My soul confirms it. The wicked cannot fathom or make a claim to this. If buddha dont settle the matter for you, you need to kicketh him to the curb!
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Lucy0808
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03:11 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post: “...God made all this! I dont assume anything. My faith declares it... If buddha dont settle the matter for you, you need to kicketh him to the curb!”
As I said before over and over again in my posts. I don't deny your subjective construct of faith and subjective constructs of perception. I'm sure you believe all of that. That is what a Homo Sapien brain-mind does. It creates false constructs of subjectivity to fullfill the gap of understanding of the machinations of the world. Yours is doing that. Hardly a surprise.
I just don't agree with your subjective constructs. I see them as illusions. Buddhah showed them as illusions. Science has shown them as illusions. I can easily tell by your posts that these are illusions. However, I understand they are your subjective reality and very real in that sense for you. It is your subjective world. It is your truncated subjective constructs that you live within. It is your own truncated pseudo-mirror.
Buddhists try to provide a path to understand this and try to deal with these machinations of our brain-mind. It is what we are. Most lay people don't understand this like some Buddhists and like practices that help to understand this.
Scientists are trying to understand the brain-mind mapping and pathways far better. They are on the path of understanding a great deal. Most lay people are uneducated in this regard.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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03:41 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy the most superior minds thinking is foolishness to God. He got it covered. All we need do is believe and bow down to His will!
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Lucy0808
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03:23 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post doesn't make sense. You are using contradicting words an ideas. "Lucy, God made all this! I dont assume anything. My faith declares it. My soul confirms it. The wicked cannot fathom or make a claim to this. If buddha dont settle the matter for you, you need to kicketh him to the curb! " You say you don't assume and yet you do. You say your faith declared it, but faith is subjective and the definition of it is so. Do you understand the definitions of the words you are using? I think not. Buddhism does put into question in a profound way the world that are minds create as subjective constructs that we perceive falsely. There is a long tradition of study under Buddhism in this regard.
I do respect it. I also respect science and other religious practices that recognize the machinations of the subjective Homo Sapien brain-mind. The world of illusion created by each person. I understand that you don't understand this. Your posts are clear on this matter.
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Lucy0808
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03:50 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post is in error from any standpoint. "Lucy the most superior minds thinking is foolishness to God. He got it covered. All we need do is believe and bow down to His will! " You are speaking from your subjective mind and faith. It is your assumptions. Assumptions and mind made perceived subjective constructs. That's it. You only speak for the made up illusions of your mind. There is no way you know god or represent god. You have only the concept of your made up constructs.
Why in the world would I give credence to that? It doesn't make any sense and isn't even consistent. I understand it is your subjective world and you have a right to it. It has little to do with objective reality outside of the simple idea that your brain-mind is in operation during a certain time and space and interacting with the world in some way.
There is not any way in the world that you speak or represent the gods. You don't. You represent (and just barely) yourself. You hardly are aware of your own mind, let alone something outside of it.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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03:54 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy use your heart instead of your head and you will get there!
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Lucy0808
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03:55 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post...“Lucy the most superior minds thinking is foolishness to God. He got it covered. All we need do is believe and bow down to His will!” .
Such as viewpoint is underwhelming and cynical. It also projects someone who has a monkey-primate-Homo Sapien constucted subjective god. Good luck with that. It is so unhelpful and boring to me. There is so much more.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:34 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy why come there gots to be more to it than that? If we could save ourselves Christ need not have suffered and died. You wanna be the hero so you can pimp yourself. However all the glory belongs to God!
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Lucy0808
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04:03 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post shows you haven't been reading my posts with comprehension at all. “Lucy use your heart instead of your head and you will get there!”
I have posted over and over and over again. Jesus' way is love and compassion, forgiveness, helping the least among us and giving up your material goods. Why? This is creating a compassionate open heart that sees. By action one makes reality and change with love and compassion. I said this over and over. This is Jesus' way. This is Buddhah's way.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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05:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy You cant be free of sin if you keep denying that you are sinning. Jesus has already forgiven past, present and future sin. He aint got to climb up on the cross again. All we got to do is bow down and accept the gift. It aint love to pretend the emperor is dressed when even a child can see he is walking around bare, butt naked.
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Lucy0808
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05:56 PM on 10/22/2011
The jaggeththewires post doesn't make sense. Something didn't transfer correctly with the post on this HP thread. Please check this. Your post:
“Lucy why come there gots to be more to it than that? If we could save ourselves Christ need not have suffered and died. You wanna be the hero so you can pimp yourself. However all the glory belongs to God!”
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Lucy0808
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06:23 PM on 10/22/2011
The irony and hypocracy is in your post: Lucy You cant be free of sin if you keep denying that you are sinning. Jesus has already forgiven past, present and future sin. He aint got to climb up on the cross again. All we got to do is bow down and accept the gift. It aint love to pretend the emperor is dressed when even a child can see he is walking around bare, butt naked. "
This isn't Jesus' teachings. It is yours. Yours. You are caught in the trappings of an institution and miss the core teachings of Jesus. This is the meaning of the emporer with no clothes. The clothes are the shariah that people wear and hide behind and think they are doing just fine in front of their friends. However, they are naked. The shariah offers no protection or substance. Jesus is about love and compassion, forgiveness, and helping the least among us. Developing an open, compassionate heart. That is it.
You are naked for all those that can see.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:34 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy the emperors new clothes is about PRIDE. The tailor said only the truly wise would be able to see his magnificent cloth. The emperor could see nothing but didnt want to appear the fool. The hom want to keep doing what is against the will of God but at the same time pretend to be upstanding, That is twisted and I for one aint a gonna play along!
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Lucy0808
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07:13 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post: "Lucy the emperors new clothes is about PRIDE." Yes, of course. Your pride for being obsessed with shariah and missing the teachings of Jesus. You are clothed in the pride of shariah and the distain of throwing the first stone. Worse. You pick the list of shariah laws and their priority and leave some most out and obsess with weird ones. It is all pride and the subjective blindness of a homo sapine animal obsessed with a subjective created construct world. It is underwhelming. Your pride. Please learn Jesus' core teachings of compassion, forgiveness, and helping the least among us. Put your material wealth aside. Develop a loving open heart and practice it. The rest is the trappings of shariah, an institution and pride of throwing stones and being a fictional blind elite. A hypocrite.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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07:32 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy what did I leave out? The law hinges on two comments. Love God and love one another. You love God by obeying Him. How is that being prideful?
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Lucy0808
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10:18 PM on 10/22/2011
Your post is in error: "Lucy what did I leave out? The law hinges on two comments. Love God and love one another. You love God by obeying Him. How is that being prideful? "
You miss the core teachings of Jesus about love and compassion, forgiveness, and helping the least among us. The rest is the trappings of institutions and shariah.Some like that and it seems you do. These are the stone throwers and the elitists that believe in obedience and punishment and rewards. They miss the point. They miss all of the points. Love and compassion are not about obedience. Far from it. It is about affirmation. Love is not about punishments and rewards. It is about compassion for its sake. To see the world with an open heart and mind. To understand the breath of life at the moment and understand. To understand the richness of that breath and that is all. The future rewards or punishments are about the hierarchy of homo sapien politics and emotional tyrancy. Love is never that.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:31 PM on 10/22/2011
Lucy, God say obiedience is better than sacrifice, Stomp your feet all you want but until you obey God aint stuttin you!
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thereisonlyoneparty
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02:48 AM on 10/22/2011
I do not get it.
Why reject part of traditional religious views while accepting the rest? I get that it is easier to used an established religion instead of making one's own, but this just creates bigger issues within a religion.
It is not really logical either. if part of a religion is wrong, that does not really show that the rest is right.
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treven
We are the music makers... .
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05:59 AM on 10/22/2011
It's called the "Buffet Bible", and it's commonplace in American culture. Pick and choose what you like, leave the rest for someone else.
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StevenM
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08:39 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "It's called the "Buffet Bible" ..."
Any student of Christian and Jewish history would recognize that both groups have evolved over the centuries, just as the Bible itself evolved. There is nothing wrong with picking and choosing, it is only hypocrisy when one insists on condemning others when they don't follow certain passages, while one ignores other passages in the Bible.
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thereisonlyoneparty
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09:29 AM on 10/22/2011
The result of such a method of a work as authority or as the basis of morality is that the book becomes a lousy authority and there is no real basis of that moral system.
All you keep is the name. It is like playing a game called "baseball," but getting rid of the baseball and hard small ball and bats, and in their place using an oblong air-filled ball and end zones. See what I am saying?
This is people who know that their "faith" is wrong refusing to give it up because the name has power. This is creating new religions while trying to keep the established brand.
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StevenM
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10:15 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "This is people who know that their "faith" is wrong refusing to give it up because the name has power. This is creating new religions while trying to keep the established brand."
You mean like "New Coke"? Or like a new "Chevy Impala"? Or like being a "Republican" or "Democrat"? Or using the word "phone" when referring to a "cell phone"? Or like adding a room to one's house? Or like the US "Constitution"?
Even baseball has changed its rules over the years, your analogy has a serious flaw in it. American football seems to changes rules almost every year. And basketball has changed many of its rules as well. Change is a part of life. Your claim that one shouldn't be able to change rules, whether for sports, civil laws, or religion is just silly.
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thereisonlyoneparty
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11:31 AM on 10/22/2011
The "New Coke" was not Coca-Cola and not marketing as such. It was a new product that was different.
The problem here is that people like yourself want good things that come with the brand (not-a-cult-iveness, accepted-by-other-people-edness, name recognition, and such).
Kind of like how followers of the "Book of Arnold" are still Latter-day Saints.
The rules changes in baseball are a refinement of the game. They do not say that homeruns are outs or that strikes result in runs or something like that.
And such changes are acknowledged as creating something different. That is why people refer to "modern" era and such.
What you are doing is rejecting something while trying to use it as a source of authority. It does not work both ways.
Start your own religion as you want it to be. Get rid of the "traditional" "god" and make your own. It will be easier and you can leave out the stuff you do not like instead of ignoring it.
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StevenM
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11:47 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: " Get rid of the "traditional" "god" and make your own. It will be easier and you can leave out the stuff you do not like instead of ignoring it."
Actually I was raised by a fundamentalist pastor, and was married in a conservative Church, but now I attend a mainline Lutheran church. How has my religion changed? Actually, very little. I'm still married to the same wonderful wife (I've never been divorced or unfaithful). We still attend Church regularly just as before. I still study the Bible just as before. I still worship, and pray just as before. My wife and I have the same overall values which we had before. What changed?
The biggest change is that I no longer have to listen to my fellow Christians preach hatred towards others. I no longer listen to sermons about how only we are the only ones who are right and everyone else is wrong. I now live a life without the bigotry, bitterness and resentment which is claimed as a virtue in most conservative Churches.
All in all, my life and my spiritual life both got better when I left conservative Christianity for a mainline Protestant Church.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:15 PM on 10/22/2011
At His death Jesus cried:"It is finished!" and the curtain separating the holy of holies from the rest of the temple was rent in two. Jesus death fulfilled the tenements of the "law". We (Christians)are not held by Jewish tradition but are under grace bought with the price of Christ shed blood. However, we remain human and humans were created to perfectly mate with the opposite sex. There is no getting around what should be self evident.
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dave377
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11:33 PM on 10/24/2011
Good post, StevenM. I have a sense that "picking and choosing" according to "enlightened" standards of modern science and modern sensibilities (as opposed to the crass biases of ancient times, ie, acceptance of slavery and class distinctions, subjugation of women, mistreatment of children, virulent homophobia, etc.), "picking and choosing" wisely and scientifically is the wave of the future if religion is to survive. Your remark about "hypocrisy" is spot on.
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Lucy0808
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03:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Excuse me. The Bible was created in that way, too.
It has a history of buffet and creating something long after the death of Jesus.
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07:37 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "Why reject part of traditional religious views while accepting the rest?"
My religion tradition (Lutheran) has been constantly evolving. Christianity began as a Jewish sect, it evolved out of 1st century Judaisms (which evolved from older forms of Judaism in many ways, the synagogue is merely one example). Western Christianity continued to evolve into Catholicism (as Eastern Christianity evolved in a different direction). In the 16th century there was a major break between the old Catholicism and the emerging Protestant movements. But both the old Catholicism and Protestants continued to evolve in different directions from that point. The mainline Protestant Groups (including Lutherans) have continued to evolve.
Conservative Christian groups like to pretend that their religious beliefs have always been the same, but any student of history knows this is merely an ideological myth with no substance behind it.
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tomp0228
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09:40 AM on 10/22/2011
I can see from previous posts that you passionately argue that homosexuality is right, and that you've studied your bible. If you want to believe what you write, that's fine, however, as a Christian, you have a responsibility to tell the truth, in love, which is pretty hard to do at times. It is also true that Jesus accepts us as sinners, if only we will repent, and turn to Christ, regardless of what we've done.
You and I both know that homosexuality is clearly wrong, as evidenced by numerous scriptures, yet you continue to push your agenda because of your personal choice to be gay, because thats what you want to do.
If you so desire to live out of God's will, that's your decision, but to lead others astray through perverting what scripture says, might condemn many to a fiery grave that lasts for an eternity. The bible also makes it clear to those who would lead others astray.
Write what you want, but you know the truth.
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10:03 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "You and I both know that homosexuality is clearly wrong ..."
That might be half true, but it is also half a lie! There is nothing sinful with homosexuality. Furthermore, this is not merely my thoughts, but the teaching of my Church and the teaching of most (all?) mainline Churches. Furthermore, mainline Protestants have long taught that the Bible contains errors. Carl E. Braaten writes: “Fundamentalist Biblicism is rejected by most theologians and it out of favor in most of the seminaries that train clergy for the parish ministry. They reject Biblicism not merely because historical science and disclosed errors and contradictions in the biblical writings, but rather because the authority of the Bible is elevated at the expense of the authority of Christ and his gospel” (“Christian Dogmatics,” 1984:74-75). My church teaches that the authority of Christ and his gospel is greater than the dead letter of the law. The early Christians taught that we "have a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor 3:6); and "if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law" (Gal 5:18). Conservatives have rejected being led by the Spirit in favor of the dead letter of scripture.
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Loggietoad
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11:20 AM on 10/22/2011
So you teach Christ's teachings? How about John 5:46-47?
"For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
(John 5:46-47 ESV)
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11:27 AM on 10/22/2011
And your point is what? Are you suggesting that if one followed Jesus' teachings that one should also follow all of Moses' teachings? Do you ever wear a garment made of two different materials (Leviticus 19:19)? Do you ever do yard work on a Saturday? Moses taught that a person doing yard work on a Saturday should be put to death (Numbers 15:32ff).
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Loggietoad
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11:35 AM on 10/22/2011
Ah, but don't you see that you set your own trap? Christ specifically addressed working on the Sabbath. The laws that you have referenced are ceremonial laws referring to the nation of Israel as a way to set themselves apart from other nations. Other laws (murder, theft, homosexuality, etc.) aren't in the same catergory.
I'm not here to try and "ungay" anyone or change anyone's mind. I don't think anyone chooses to be gay. But the mental gymnastics necessary to make the argument that one can be gay and a Christian confound me.
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11:49 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "Christ specifically addressed working on the Sabbath."
O yes? Where?
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tomp0228
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11:51 AM on 10/22/2011
Thanks for the info, but your staement that "most or all" is simply not the truth. If numbers are what you're after, then "most" would disagree with your assertions, as the number of people in the liberal churches that espouse homosexuality are in the minority.
Concerning what the new Testament has to say, read 1Corinthians 6:9. "Do not be decieved; neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homoesexual offenders"...
Further, you claim Galations 5:18 as your evidence that homosexuality is good and just. Didn't you read the next few verses? Galations 5:19-21; "the acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality... (which was named first)
I understand your goal of bringing gays to Christ, and I'm with you on that one, but to tell them it is ok and acceptable is just not true. Everyone has their own cross to bear, and the truth is what sets us free, not a lie spoken to placate. Every gay should be loved and cared for...and taught the truth.
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Loggietoad
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12:11 PM on 10/22/2011
Christ and the Sabbath:
"One Sabbath, when he went to dine at the house of a ruler of the Pharisees, they were watching him carefully. And behold, there was a man before him who had dropsy. And Jesus responded to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?” But they remained silent. Then he took him and healed him and sent him away. And he said to them, “Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out?” And they could not reply to these things.
(Luke 14:1-6 ESV)
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12:51 PM on 10/22/2011
If one looks at the Gospel accounts where Jesus is accused of breaking the Sabbath, it is clear he never stated it was okay to break the Sabbath. First of all, there has always been exceptions to the general Sabbath rules (Luke 14:5). Israeli hospitals might be understaffed on the Sabbath, but they don’t close down completely. Rabbi Mattithiah (2nd century) states: “whenever there is doubt whether life is in danger this overrides the Sabbath” (Yoma 8.6). On the other hand, the strict Rabbis opposed “minor cures” on the Sabbath. In the 1st century, there was debate on this issue, whether “minor cures” was a Sabbath violation or not. Second, while the strict Rabbis classified practicing medicine as work, no Rabbi classified talking as work. None of the Gospel accounts where Jesus is accused of breaking the Sabbath does Jesus put a bandage on a patient or give a person medicine. E. P. Sanders, in his “Jewish Law from Jesus to the Mishnah” (1990) writes: “Talking is not regarded as work in any Jewish tradition, and so no work was performed” (21). The behavior of Jesus on the Sabbath clearly fell well inside the range of behaviors which the Rabbis debated about the Sabbath. But the bottom line, talking is not a Sabbath violation. And nowhere does Jesus claim that it is okay to not follow the Sabbath commandment.
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Loggietoad
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12:12 PM on 10/22/2011
Christ and the Sabbath (cont.):
"At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”
(Matthew 12:1-8 ESV)
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BornOKtheFirstTime
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10:16 AM on 10/22/2011
LOL. You've got a bad case of anti-gay bigotry going on there bucko. You've chosen to follow an anti-gay version of your religious tradition. The bible passages in question have nothing whatsoever to do with modern LGBTs in loving, committed, non-exploitative relationships. And you are arrogant to think that your approach to your religion is the only valid one. Many Christians and Jews do not believe that the bible is the infallible word of god. The men who wrote the bible were limited by their time and culture in their understanding of sexual orientation, just as they did not understand the germ theory of disease.
You presume to know the mind of god. But you are only pretending that you know. You don't. Your overweening self-righteousness gives your religion a bad name.
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tomp0228
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11:12 AM on 10/22/2011
When you meet God face to face, you can tell Him what an anti-gay bigot you think I am. He'll say you should have listened. My real and only concern is that you enter heaven having trusted in the name of Jesus, Son of the One true and living God.
There is a real and explicit difference between "germ theory" and homosexuality in the scripture. As far I can tell, Jesus wasn't concerned with germ theory, only people's hard hearts. I don't write this to criticize or condemn, as no one is perfect, but I do write so that you know what God says in His word.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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12:42 PM on 10/22/2011
LOL! You're trapped in your own narcissistic thought bubble--imagining you know the mind of god. You keep making claims to know things you don't know--which of course reveals your foolishness.
When you meetgod and find that he/she is bisexual and you learn thatthe biblical passages were targeting idolatrous, exploitative sexual practices and reflect the lmitations of theunderstanding of the Jews of that time period, he/she will say you should not have had such asmall mind and such ahard and closed heart.
Or, when you meet god and you find outyou chose the wrong religion and that you should have followed the prophethood of Muhammed insteadof falsely believing that Jesus was the son of god, here's what might be in store for you:
Quran (22:19-21) - But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron
Quran (4:56) - Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise
I say this only sothat you know that you are a foolish person living witha false sense of certainty. You have deluded yourself into thinking that you know what, in fact, you really don't know.
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10:28 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "You and I both know that homosexuality is clearly wrong, as evidenced by numerous scriptures, yet you continue to push your agenda because of your personal choice to be gay ..."
LOL! First of all, you are patronizing. That is rude and disrespectful. Second, I don't happen to be gay. And I've been married to my lovely wife for over 30 years. And third, most of those in mainline Protestant Churches, who support the ordination of those in same-sex marriage, as well as supporting Gay Marriage, are heterosexuals. While we teach that homosexuality is not a sin, most of us are not ourselves homosexual.
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Lucy0808
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12:21 PM on 10/22/2011
That is what all of the Christian sects are about. They take some and not all. They read a KJB as literal or just as prose and general interest. There are thousands of sects of Christianity and of Gnosticism. This is the history of the religion or religions.
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04:46 PM on 10/22/2011
Have you ever noticed, that in the bible, letters are addressed to certain groups of people ? Not every law applies to everyone in every instance. The Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter had a dispute over law. Jesus had disputes with the Pharisees over their understanding of the law.
The Bible is not a giant book of law. It must be understood with a historical-grammatical interpretation. What, when, who ?
Laws pertaining to Levitical priests do not equally apply to everybody.
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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08:51 PM on 11/10/2011
homosexuality is indeed immoral behavior and is a major sin in Islam. The practice of homosexuality began with the people of Lut (Alyhis Salaam). Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Quran:
ولوطا إذ قال لقومه أتأتون الفاحشة ما سبقكم بها من أحد من العالمين
“And (remember) Lut, when he said to his people: Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceded you has committed in the worlds?” (7:80)
In this verse, the word “Fahishah”, which means an atrocious, obscene, lewd, shameless act, is referring to the practice of homosexuality. After the people of Sodom ignored the warnings of Lut (Alayhis Salaam) to stop this act and to follow the true path, Allah Ta’ala wiped them out with a severe punishment by turning their towns upside down and burying them with stones of baked clay. This was a telling punishment by Allah Ta’ala for going against the natural order created by Him.
Allah Ta’ala has also stated in several places of the Quran that He has created men and women so that they may be mates for each other (in marriage). The inception of marriage for mankind on Earth was to maintain the human race through procreation. Therefore, it is absolutely clear that homosexuality is strictly prohibited.
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07:31 AM on 11/02/2011
I believe many Muslim scholars would indicate that Irshad Manji is in fact not Muslim.
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