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lastwarning2earth rev14
DeceptionExposer .
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06:53 PM on 10/20/2011
Jesus is the pattern, I follow, and know one else.
There are Many false teachers.
Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them"
There goes everyone on the above list and then some.
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duncansdad
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10:33 PM on 10/20/2011
And you should go, as well
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Lucy0808
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11:42 PM on 10/20/2011
You missed the whole point of Jesus' teachings. The irony is amazing.
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.: "Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin" And Other Modern-Day Heresies
I believe those Christians who "hate" LGBT sexualities and gender expressions while allegedly "loving" LGBT people are nothing more than modern-day gnostics, who were condemned as heretical by early Church theologians.
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FilipeCastro
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12:08 AM on 10/22/2011
I am an atheist and could not care less about other peoples sexual lives. I think that it is mean and nosy in a vulgar way to be homophobic. But my problem with these guys is why is it that the Bible thumpers always bring in homophobia and never mention greed?!
I found these quotes that I think are eloquent:
Mathew 19:21: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Or Mathew 6:19: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal."
Or Luke: 12:33: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys."
Or Corinthians 6:9-11: "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, arsenokoitēs, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
Mmmhhh. All this talk about not paying taxes...
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treven
We are the music makers... .
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06:01 AM on 10/22/2011
Do you find it poetically ironic that you quoted a verse condemning homosexuals in your diatribe?
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Lucy0808
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12:22 PM on 10/22/2011
Not really. It wasn't on the list. However, you may put homosexuality in a different bucket of sin and consider it so.
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treven
We are the music makers... .
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03:53 PM on 10/22/2011
Corinthians refers to "arsenokoitēs".
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Lucy0808
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04:11 PM on 10/22/2011
That Greek word does not refer to homosexuality or homosexual sexacts. Please learn the linguistic history of the word and also how it was used first by Paul (decades after the death of Jesus).
It is important to learn a little about the topic.
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Feministo
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09:59 PM on 10/21/2011
Why do LGBT people want to belong to religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) whose holy texts condemn homosexuality and whose institutions have traditionally punished homosexcuality, even with the death? Why don't they just reject those religions? I mean, you can theorize as much as you want, contextualize the text, and explore languages and translations, but from statements such as "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22) or "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13), you will always have trouble to get a positive statement on homosexuality! Why do LGBT people don just say, thanks but no thanks to religions. Do it and lead the way!
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FilipeCastro
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11:57 PM on 10/21/2011
I fully agree.
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thereisonlyoneparty
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01:24 AM on 10/22/2011
I believe it boils down to the desire to be a part of a group. "Gay" has become a club (largely based around a homogeneous "culture"), but it does not give one any real meaning. It justifies the individual, but not much more.
So people desire to help "religion" as it answers the questions of why we are here (no reason), what is the meaning of life (again, nothing), and why we should be good (no objective reason; arguments of mutual benefit are somewhat valid). Yeah, these groups may be based on texts that say certain actions are "wrong", but "we" (not me and you, but society; I no in the group) can always find a group that ignores those parts and claims that it actually means that "god" is all cools with us.
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Lucy0808
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02:11 AM on 10/22/2011
Leviticus is the most hateful book in the Old Testament (Bible). So many horrible actions are in and supported by the religion. This is before Jesus, fundamentalist Christians do quote this book quite a bit. It is a book that shows a very mean, violent and disfunctional primate god. Not cool at all.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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08:50 PM on 10/21/2011
In this video, I see a man that is making a plea for an earthly relationship by which he is to be judged as wrong, just as those whom do evil to him or the like-minded, by the same God of justice. However, for those who think that telling God’s truth in love is evil or an attack, are wrong. It is what it is for all of us. Here what Jesus told his enemies who tried too trip him up on His Kingdom to come.
Matthew 22: 25- 32 King James Version
Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased , and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
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Toutlaguerre
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08:21 PM on 10/21/2011
It is shameful when religious leaders proudly advocate sin and immorality as part of their spiritual outreach program. It is a tragedy when people look up to those who show such blatant disregard for his laws and yet claim to be christian. Whilst the bible does not condone discrimination it's position on homosexuality is clear..it is an abomination.
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StevenM
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09:04 PM on 10/21/2011
It is shameful when you proudly advocate homophobic bigotry. Homosexuality is no more a sin than eating non-kosher, both of which were clearly condemned in the Bible.
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thereisonlyoneparty
more amazing than you .
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01:25 AM on 10/22/2011
So you admit is a "sin" in the view of the religion, but do not condemn those who try to utilize those religions to create new teachings to affirm their own views?
This is about feeling good. "God" loves everyone. Even people who do things that "god" does not like or did not mention specifically.
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StevenM
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07:06 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "So you admit [it] is a "sin" in the view of the religion ..."
No, I admit that the Bible was wrong to call it a sin, just as the Bible was wrong to call eating a hotdog a sin.
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aviandonn
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04:08 PM on 10/22/2011
This is about feeling good.
Or it's about feeling validated in your own personal beliefs. I suspect you feel that validation all the time and think, or course, that it comes from god. Doesn't every bible reader?
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Loggietoad
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11:22 AM on 10/22/2011
You know this argument is weak. Following your logic then murder is simply non-kosher as well.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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11:31 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "Following your logic then murder is simply non-kosher as well."
You misunderstand. My point is merely that Christians have rejected parts of the Bible. The kosher laws are simply an example. It is unfortunate that so many conservatives have been blinded by their ideology that they cannot tell the difference between a "sin" which causes harm like murder or adultery and a "sin" which does not cause any harm like eating non-kosher or a loving relationship between two consensual adults in a monogamous relationship. Homosexuality is no more a real "sin" than eating a hotdog, yet, both were condemned in the Bible, but neither of them causes any real harm. And neither of them are real sins.
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Loggietoad
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11:43 AM on 10/22/2011
I personally adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith which divide the laws into moral, civil, and ceremonial categories. I believe all moral laws still apply, as did Paul and every other writer in the New Testament.
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StevenM
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11:48 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "I believe all moral laws still apply, as did Paul and every other writer in the New Testament."
So do I!
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FilipeCastro
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11:58 PM on 10/21/2011
Relax. God does not exist and sins are inventions of maladjusted minds.
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whatsupcastleman
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04:54 PM on 10/22/2011
What is your reference point for morality ? Do you define good and evil ? Can your definition of good, be someone else's definition of evil ? I may believe murder is good, but you may think it is evil. If I applied my equally valid view to end your life, your construct would be voided out by mine.
This is all untrue though. Man has a certain knowledge of the truth written on their heart. This is why most people know stealing, telling lies, and murder are wrong.
But, that truth is suppressed in unrighteousness. People say God does not exist. But, it's obvious to me that a certain law is natural to man revealed in the creation.
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Lucy0808
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02:14 AM on 10/22/2011
It is a trajedy that people are so obsessed with their shariah law which includes being obsessed with sexual organs and how they are used. It is a shame that they are so obsessed with this and miss the most basic teachings of Jesus of compassion, forgiveness and helping the least among us. Of giving up your material goods. Of developing an open heart and a questioning and open mind to see objective truth.
It is astonishing how people cling to their rules and miss the point of it all. Life is so short and they miss life.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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02:40 PM on 10/22/2011
It is equally troubling that people who claim not to miss the most basic teachings of Jesus such as love, compassion and forgiveness ignore the most basic tenets of morality, such as prohibition of the expression of sexual feelings between two individuals of the same sex. Life is to short to miss that one.
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Lucy0808
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02:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Your bigotry is as plain as day.
There are all sort of rules of shariah the Christians have and yet you are focusing on homosexuality and so called naught parts and how they are used. These people are people of love and loving other people. They are born as homosexuals. The include food you can and cannot eat. Clothing you can and can't wear. Not being around people and having sex in mensus. Rules about slavery and women under subjugation. Giving away your material goods and so on. Yet you are obsessed with homosexuality and people expressing love. They aren't expressing hate nor are they behaving poorly. Yet this is what you focus on. I think that is incredibly sad. I would guess that you haven't dedicated your life to be a preacher and given up most of your material wealth. I would guess that you likely haven't given as much as 15% of your income to the least among us. I would guess that you haven't made your life in the way taught by Jesus. Yet you are here obsessing over homosexuality (people born to it) and their expression of love and ministry, and the way of Jesus.
Yes, I think you are a hypocrite. A shallow one. One not guided by love.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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01:59 AM on 10/23/2011
The topic of this post was homosexuality so those other laws that you mention as a means of petty fogging the issue are for another discussion. Let's focus from here on the original topic. Whilst it is commendable that people are able to show love to each other and give to other people the bible at 1 Sam 15:22 says, " It is better to obey than to sacrifice". Obedience requires modesty .ie. there are limits within which we can operate in order to please God. The limit on sexual intercourse is between two adults of the opposite sex that are married to each other. There is nothing that you can say to nullify that fundamental truth from God's word the bible. I am going to go out a limb here and say that "naught parts" refer to sexual organs and how they are being used. It is argued that there are people who are born with genetic dispositions to alcoholism etc but somehow they strive to do what is acceptable to God. So even if a person believes in their heart that they are genetically disposed to use their naught parts in homosexual acts, it is no excuse.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
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11:52 AM on 10/22/2011
LOL. Many Christians and Jews do not believe the bible is the infallible word of god, but reflects the biases and misunderstandings of the men who wrote it and of the times in which they lived. Likewise they do not think that the passages in Leviticus, Romans, and 1 Corinthians apply to modern LGBTs in committed, loving, non-exploitative relationships.
You arrogantly believe that your authoritarian, fundamentalist approach is the only correct one. You falsely claim that you know the mind of god. For whatever personal reasons of your own, you have chosen the anti-gay version of your religion. Many would say that that is an abomination.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
132 Fans
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02:27 PM on 10/22/2011
It would indeed be an abomination if I did use an authoritarian, fundamentalist approach, or shared the views of "many christians and Jews who who do not believe the bible is the unfallible word of God". Instead I choose Theocracy i.e rule by God. You should try that sometime so that you would not have to resort to calling someone who does not share your opinion arrogant. It might also be helpful if you read the context of those scriptures in Leviticus, Romans and 1 Corinthians with an honest heart and mind. For the one in Romans especially (Roman 1:32) shows that deep down inside a person practicing things the bible condemns knows exactly what they are doing. This as you can see has nothing to do with my "personal reasons" but the law of God, just so you know that it is God who has the absolute authority to decide what is right or wrong.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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05:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Then it's even worse than I imagined. Theocracy is the enemy of our American secular constitutional government.
Leviticus refers to idolatrous practices of temple prostitution and pederasty. Most of Paul's stuff condemning certain homosexual acts reflects Leviticus (hence his coining of arsenokoites to mimic the Hebrew in LEviticus) and again has nothing whatsoever to do with modern LGBTs in loving, committed, non-exploitative relationships. As for Romans, if you read it with a pure and open heart, you see it has to do with heterosexuals, not people who are born predominately homosexual.
And it doesn't make much difference, since the people who wrote those words had only a limited understanding of human sexuality, sexual orientation and gender identity in the first place. Just as they had a limited understanding of the germ theory of disease.
You've simply chosen to project onto god and the bible your own anti-gay bigotry, thereby making yourself feel righteous and safe. But the traditions are changing. You will be left behind.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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04:20 PM on 10/23/2011
I think this phrase, "And it doesn't make much difference, since the people who wrote those words had only a limited understanding of human sexuality, sexual orientation and gender identity in the first place." is the key to understanding your pattern of reasoning. There is a saying that you can bring a horse to the pond but you cannot make him drink. The tragedy in a statement like that is you completely disregard the fact that the author of the bible is God and the principles and thoughts therein are not from "the people who wrote those words" but God. A person of this view will hardly appreciate that God's principles do not change even if people's outlook on them do. Rom 3:4 advises us " But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar"
It takes prayer ,meditation and desire to do the right thing in God's eyes to appreciate this level of spiritual thinking.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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05:22 PM on 10/23/2011
You reveal the essential flaw and foolishness of your position in the statement, "the author of the bible is God and the principles and thoughts therein are not from "the people who wrote those words" but God". That clearly shows the childish naivete of your understanding. The Bible is the record of the attempts of iron age Jewish men to understand how the world works and to encode the rules of conduct which they believed at the time were correct for their culture. They fit into the pattern of many ancient law givers who purport that their laws have been handed down by a deity, just as Hammurabi represented his famous code of laws as being handed down by the sun god Shamash. This gives the laws an appearence of greater authority. The ancient Israelites were no different in that respect. Unfortunately by mistaking the words of iron age Israelites and Jews for the ultimate and final word of god you are cutting yourself off from the living spirit of god. You arrogantly and foolishly believe that your way is the correct and only way. This leads you not only to limit your understanding of the world, but also to commit grave injustices against those of other faith traditions, such as Hindus and Muslims, and against the LGBT community. You have mistaken the bible for god. And that is a pitiable way to lead a life--in a darkness that you mistake for light.
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Lucy0808
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03:53 PM on 10/22/2011
You are simply a bigot.
These people practice love and lives of love. They dedicate their lives to helping others. How many can say that. Yet you are here obsessed with what you many call "naughty bits" and how they are used. That is so profoundly disfunctional. You miss the entire point of Jesus' teachings. It is sad.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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01:34 AM on 10/23/2011
Lucy, in my first post on this topic I clearly said that whilst the bible does not encourage discrimination it condemns homosexuality. So whilst you should not hate the person, it is grossly hypocritical for anyone to disregard Jesus' teachings on homosexual acts and yet claim that they understand what love is. What about love for God and Jesus and their teachings? Anyone that thinks practicing something immoral (whether in love or not) makes it acceptable has certainly missed the point about love for God and his son Jesus. It is painful that anyone would treat the moral laws and principles of such a loving God with utter disdain and disregard. In the first century if anyone was a practicer of homosexuality, fornication, etc they had to conform or change their ways if they desired to please God 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 plainly says "that is what some of you were". Jesus as the head of the congregation directed Paul to write these words.If you really cared anything about Jesus or his teachings you would never disregard his teachings on this matter. This is not a personal agenda I am pushing for I am not the author of the bible, God is. I am not the one condemning homosexuality, the teachings of God and Jesus already has that covered. So whether in a loving committed relationship or not homosexuality is wrong, plain and simple.
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Mychaeltodd Robinson
Min.Mychaeltodd, Executive Director of Fig Leaf Fi .
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07:50 PM on 10/21/2011
I'm so thankful to have had a Pastor & mentor like Bishop Yvette Flunder- she has a big heart, she's smart, she love's her people and she loves GOD!- Min.MYCHAELTODD
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TheWM
aka The Wrong Monkey .
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03:06 PM on 10/21/2011
"Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities."
No, not all religions have had that problem. Hard as that may be to imagine to some people who are familiar primarily with Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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01:01 PM on 10/21/2011
74% of American Catholics support legal recognition of same-sex unions (43% for marriage, 31% for civil unions). 44% young evangelicals support same-sex marraige. Reform, Reconstructionist, and Conservative Jews celebrate same-sex unions and ordain openly gay rabbis. They have come to the sensible conclusion that the Levitican prohibitions were targeting idolatrous practices of temple-prostitution or pederasty or else do not reflect a complete understanding of human sexuality. In either case, they have concluded it is unjust to apply them to modern LGBTs in loving, committed, non-exploitative religions.
The Judaeo-Christian tradition is transforming itself, from the bottom-up. As science establishes the fact that homosexuality is normal and natural, that same-sex couples raise children that are just as healthy as straight couples, that same-sex couples profit from the stability that marriages and cvil unions confer, is it surprising that large numbers of Christians and Jews are seeing that it is the old anti-gay versions which seek to exclude LGBTs or impose unjust and discriminatory restrictions on their behavior that are, in fact, the false teachings and the false doctrines--false teachings which the ears of the anti-gay bigots and authoritarians still itch to hear?
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thereisonlyoneparty
more amazing than you .
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01:28 AM on 10/22/2011
The Judaeo-Christian tradition is transforming itself, from the bottom-up. As science establishes the fact that homosexuality is normal and natural
Normal? No. Normal is what is expected. Suicide is not normal, for example, but it is natural. Note that normal is not a value judgment. It is just an observation of what is common in occurrence.
what does natural have to do with anything? Clothes are unnatural. So is agriculture and animal husbandry. And computers.
Religion is about morality. Morality has nothing to do with "natural." It is "natural" to have lots of sexual partners over the life of an individual ("serial monogamy"), but religion does not claim that is "good."
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Anthony Steven Lewis
Cinema Geekly .
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09:32 AM on 10/22/2011
I'm guessing this what brought up as many opponents of that lifestyle tout it as "unnatural" and therefore against the will of God (since he created nature and all).
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:20 PM on 10/22/2011
Catholics dont adhere to the bible teachings ie. calling Pope father, lighting candles for the dead, pergatory, doing pennance for sins changing the sabbath from sat to sun, praying to idols and other humans... need I go on?
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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02:05 PM on 10/22/2011
Worshiping the bible as you seem to do is not the only way. The bible was written by men for men to control men and reflects the limited understanding of people of that time. Need I go on?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:23 PM on 10/22/2011
I worship the true and living God. The scriptures are His word sent so that we could know Him. People of that time created the pyramids. Aint a building today show a more comprehensive understanding. Say what?
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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03:45 PM on 10/22/2011
LOL! You need to throw that bible of yours away. It's thoroughly confused you. You no more know that you are worshiping the true and living god than does a Muslim or a Hindu. And your approach of worshipping the bible has no more intrinsic merit than those Christians who see the bible as the work of fallible humans through which the spirit of god can nonetheless be discerned. You"ve just chosen the anti-gay version of Christianity to justify your own anti-gay bigotry and make yourself feel better. You arrogantly pretend that you know the mind of god. Others use the bible in a different way.
No ancient Egyptian architect could build the Petronas Towers. But modern architects could build a pyramid. Egyptians had a limited understand of architectural possibilities, techniques and materials.
The average Egyptian lifespan was 33 for men and 29 for women. Looks like they didn't have it all figured out on the medical front either.
People back then were limited--as was their understanding of sexual orientation and gender identity.
Fortunately Judaism and Christianity are evolving to become LGBT inclusive and LGBT affirming.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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03:58 PM on 10/22/2011
What is to understand? God in His word said it is unseemly behavior that ought not to be. He created man. How you gonna tell Him he dont know what He is talking about?
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LintLass
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06:03 PM on 10/22/2011
You already have. But you and your fear of 'idols.' Catholics say 'Pagans do that,' Protestants say 'Catholics do that, ' ...since when or Protestants authorities on what Pagans do, never mind what Catholics say the difference is, when they pretty much make the same ignorant accusations ...None of which seem to be premised on more than the idea that someone else doesn't know how to pray even in proximity to some kind of statue or something? (Of course, then, some Muslims will say that Protestants use too many images...) :) On and on.
Then on through maybe various branches of Buddhism saying, 'That's all illusion, too,' on to Zen saying *whack* It really isn't not-illusion! Then atheists being, 'No it's not,' then we're back to animists and the like being, 'You know it's all alive, anyway, ' then we're back to Pagans being like, 'And now we're going to keeping this grove, maybe carve something in it.
You're just part of this whole grand cycle of people trying to have a spiritual life in a world with ...stuff in it. :)
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:16 PM on 10/22/2011
WTH?
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Stand Up for your Belief
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01:41 PM on 10/22/2011
People need to get away from "tradition" and MAN made religion and follow what the Bible says.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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02:10 PM on 10/22/2011
LOL! The bible was written by men for men to control men. It reflects all the limitations and prejudices of the men who wrote it. People need to evolve beyond their narrow bibliolatry.
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StevenM
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03:54 PM on 10/21/2011
Re: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."
2 Tim. 4:3-4 15 leaders that fit the above scripture.
Or, it could be your notion of Christianity fits the above scripture best. Your view of Christian seems to have all the trappings of Christianity without the love and compassion. Instead of love, you preach a religion of hate and animosity towards those who are different.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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10:28 PM on 10/21/2011
No it couldnt be that actually since the above scripture embodies the other existing scriptures such as the ones found in Leviticus and Romans. It clearly says a departure from existing scripture, which I have not done.
I preach love within the context of the God's word. Not a love that condones sinful acts. Jesus didnt even do that. Thats moral relativism and it is ascriptural. You are welcome to your opinion, you arent welcome to rewrite the meaning of scripture. Afterall if you arent going to adhere to scripture, why use the Bible at all? Just make up your own religion. It would be alot easier for you and everyone else.
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StevenM
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07:21 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "You are welcome to your opinion, you arent welcome to rewrite the meaning of scripture. After all if you arent going to adhere to scripture, why use the Bible at all?"
I've never rewritten the meaning of scripture; rather I've rejected scripture, just like the early Christians did!
Hebrew scripture taught that eating non-kosher was a sin, it taught that one should cease all work on the Sabbath from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, and it taught that circumcision was an "everlasting covenant." The early Christians rejected scripture. The early Christians taught that it was okay to eat non-kosher, and they taught that one didn't have to be physically circumcised, and they eventually rejected keeping the Sabbath, and instead worshiped on the "Lord's Day" (Sunday).
Furthermore, the early Christians never taught that scripture was the highest authority; rather they held Christ and his gospel as having authority over scripture. They taught that we "have a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor 3:6); and "if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law" (Gal 5:18). Conservatives have rejected being led by the Spirit in favor of the dead letter of scripture.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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08:42 AM on 10/22/2011
You are mixing apples and oranges. The New Covenant is accepted by evangelicals and conservatives as well obviously. Unless you seem them keeping kosher? There is support in the New Testament for such things. There is no support however for rejection of the moral laws. Being led by the Spirit means in consultation with the scriptures, not in a "whatever seems right" way.
No, being subject to the law meant that we are not subject to its penalites(death) for our sins since Jesus paid the price for them. WHich is why the Levitical Priestly Codes( blended fabrics, shellfish etc) and things like stoning no longer apply. Not being subject to the law did not however mean that morally we have no further obligation to obey it. Those early Christians were not running around stealing, comitting adultery, incest or bestiality, not justifiably so. They still kept the Lord's Day holy, they simply changed the days. Some liberals favor being led by any spirit over God's word.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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09:09 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "There is no support however for rejection of the moral laws."
Your whole diatribe merely argues for my point, since there is nothing immoral about homosexuality.
Re: "They still kept the Lord's Day holy, they simply changed the days."
That is not true, and shows a lack of understanding between the two. It is not merely that the days were changed, but the mode of observing changed as well. Sabbath observance is about not working. The Ten Commandments teach that from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown the whole community should cease work, including children, slaves, livestock, and foreigners. There is nothing in the Ten Commandments about attending a worship service. On the other hand, Christians meet for worship on Sunday, the "Lord's Day", the day after the Sabbath. Many early Christians observed both, the Sabbath (on Saturday) and then on the following day attended Sunday worship. Many Christians were still doing this in the 4th century. Eventually, Sabbath observance died out among the Christians (around the 9th century). But the two are completely different in the days used and the mode of observance.
It was only in the 16th century that some Christians started to mistake Sunday for the Sabbath, in part out of ignorance, and in part out of a desire to pretend that they were following the Ten Commandments. Indeed, "blue laws" in the US are a remnant of this mistaken identity. It is unfortunate how many Christians are simply ignorant of these basic facts.
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tomp0228
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09:54 AM on 10/22/2011
Isn't it amazing that people can so pervert God's word? I thank my Lord Jesus that people like you are willing to tell the truth in the face of so many who aren't interested in the truth.
Maybe by your truthful words, someone will come to accept Christ and His Word.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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11:43 AM on 10/22/2011
um, no it hardly argues for your point. There is according to the scriptures something sinful about same sex acts.Then why in this mostly Christian country even 2,000 years later for the last 100-200 years did we have almost every establishment closed on Sunday? Do people work today? Sure, but you can find numerous establishments closed on Sundays and that is because of grounding in precisely what I said, moving the observance of the Lord's Day to Sunday and for the most part not working. That's why its known typically as a day of rest. It's not an ignorance to the basic facts. Christians know what the original JEWISH sabbath was. Using your argument Christians would observe passover and the other Jewish holidays. None of that however has anything to do with sin of same sex acts listed in both the OT and NT. This is all a strawman argument; because one unrelated law is or isnt obeserved that another is or isnt valid. Its's a reach no matter how you slice it.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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11:49 AM on 10/22/2011
Amen Tomp. That is my only issue. I hate to see the word twisted, not matter what it is twisted in favor of.
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shawnie5
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01:00 PM on 10/22/2011
If you're led by the Spirit the moral law is superfluous because the Spirit won't lead you to violate it anyway. This is what the prophets were foretelling when they said He said He would write His law upon our HEARTS.
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Pale Writer
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01:08 PM on 10/22/2011
I'm not sure if StevenM is correctly understanding what Paul is speaking of in Galatians 5. The letter of the Law was the Old Testament. It does not mean that we are to ignore the instructions given in the New Testament. I'm not sure what "conservatives" out there are abiding by the OT Law and ignoring the Holy Spirit, but I sure don't know any of them.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness For Jesus? .
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04:32 AM on 10/21/2011
Caption suggestion; " Lets be good bad examples "
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Hamid Fana
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01:17 AM on 10/21/2011
Imam Daayiee Abdullah is not inspiring..a quick glimpse of his website shows that he's running a business charging exorbitant rates couseling and conducting marriages ($1000) WHICH under Islamic law are expectations of a community leader (Imam) i.e. free to the community.. not something to make money off of.. historically, the greatest leaders of Muslim communities have not only been religious leaders but also doctors, scientists, authors, warriors, or business men which gave them a source of income so they don't depend on charging people for religious duties.. if a poor Muslim wants to get married, he has the right to it without having to spend thousands to get this fake Imam..... as a queer of Muslim background, i find this guy repulsive.
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TexasTreader
Gone fishin' .
1996 Fans
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11:19 AM on 10/21/2011
The Christian Apostle, Paul, ALSO made a point of supporting himself by his own work. I've always been suspicious of professional clergy. I understand the attraction and I don't see scripture forbidding it but there is a command to not use God's name vainly. I'd sure like to stay on the right side of THAT line.
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FilipeCastro
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11:59 PM on 10/21/2011
I think that the Christian Apostle Paul is a fictional character, but I agree with you.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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01:00 AM on 10/21/2011
It's encouraging that Christianity and Judaism are evolving out of their anti-gay bigotry phase. The authoritarian religionists here who arrogantly think that their anti-gay version of their faith is the correct one are the ones who are being left behind.
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phyrro
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02:05 AM on 10/21/2011
As a non gay atheist against anti-gay bigotry, I might think that some of these religious leaders are a "start". Not completely understanding all the circumstances I would like to learn what your objections to these "go-gooders" are.
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TomMartin
Freedom and equality. .
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04:30 AM on 10/21/2011
I think you misunderstood the poster.
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Varys
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01:07 PM on 10/21/2011
The anti-gay version of Christianity is the one that acknowledges holy scripture. Whether that's the "correct" one I'll leave for you to decide.
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Balancement
Timendi causa est nescire. -- Seneca .
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12:31 AM on 10/21/2011
I suppose I should wade through the posts below--but I'm carrying with me the wisdom of Bishop John Shelby Spong as a shield: "Too many people use the Bible as a drunk does a lamp-post; for support, rather than illumination."
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ashiraladonai777
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02:50 PM on 10/23/2011
How do you figure when the vast majority of Americans are Biblically-ILLiterate anymore? They wouldn't know what to stand on let alone use it for support.
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Challlie
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44 Fans
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11:18 PM on 10/23/2011
there are plenty of countries with a more dense population of biblically-literate people. we're at war with a few of them. distance between a person and his or her bible does not equate to distance between a person and god.
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duncansdad
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10:39 PM on 10/20/2011
The postings here by the folks who like to think they are the most religious, are the some of the most vicious and hateful I have seen in a while.
Shame on you all.
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Challlie
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07:48 PM on 10/20/2011
i've noticed a direct relationship between the number of bible quotations in a post and the number of grammatical and spelling errors.
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FilipeCastro
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12:00 AM on 10/22/2011
:o) I live in Texas and I agree with you!
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ashiraladonai777
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02:49 PM on 10/23/2011
I see. And your lack of capitalization in "I" says nothing either, I take it...? Hubris...
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lastwarning2earth rev14
DeceptionExposer .
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06:53 PM on 10/20/2011
Jesus is the pattern, I follow, and know one else.
There are Many false teachers.
Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them"
There goes everyone on the above list and then some.
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duncansdad
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10:33 PM on 10/20/2011
And you should go, as well
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Lucy0808
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11:42 PM on 10/20/2011
You missed the whole point of Jesus' teachings. The irony is amazing.
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phyrro
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02:20 AM on 10/21/2011
You quote "If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them" and I say
"If you speak not my Law or the testimony, theres no light in you". For I, the 53rd OverGod am the the True God and your God is merely a peon.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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04:07 PM on 10/21/2011
Re: Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, there's no light in them"
Nothing like misquoting a passage from the Bible out of context to make a point!
Isaiah 8:20 refers to those who seek guidance from ghosts and spirits (see verse 19).
"Now if people say to you, ‘Consult the ghosts and the familiar spirits that chirp and mutter; should not a people consult their gods, the dead on behalf of the living, for teaching and for instruction?’ surely, those who speak like this will have no dawn!" (Isaiah 8:19-20).
Re: "There are Many false teachers."
Should we count you as one of them?
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ashiraladonai777
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02:53 PM on 10/23/2011
Matthew 7:15
[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Test yourself...
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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03:25 PM on 10/23/2011
You will know them by their fruit. What fruit is this?
"By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things" (Galatians 5:22-23).
The false prophets preach a message of condemnation and hate. Many conservative Christians supported slavery, then they supported Jim Crow laws and segregation; they fought against federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights. In the 1940s, most conservative Christians were Democrats, but as the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, many conservative Christians switched parties from the Democrats to the Republicans, thus making the Republican Party the party of conservative Christians, a direct result of their thinly veiled racism.
Mainline Protestant Churches are inclusive to the point where many of them are now ordaining those in same-sex relationships. But the conservative Christians are like ravenous wolves attempting to condemn and devour anyone who is different. They don't preach God's love, but rather preach condemnation and hate.
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ashiraladonai777
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09:36 PM on 10/23/2011
On the point of slavery, it wouldn't be the first time that some professing the faith have used it as a cover for other selfish agendas. They have forgotten God in those instances, & one day, they'll have to stand before Him to give an account of their actions.
As regards the ordination of people in same-sex relationships, it has nothing to do with being "different", but it has everything to do w/ what is sinful in Scripture. God's love is already DEFINED: Even Jesus reaffirmed the model of marriage in the NT that was based on the creation model: one man to one woman...for LIFE. Any other model is nothing but a counterfeit of God's model. As God already defined what love is since HE IS LOVE, no man has the authority nor the right to profane that model for their own selfish agenda. What people have chosen to call "love" in our current culture is nothing short of lust masquerading as love...And to push that agenda thru, some have resorted to some interesting tactics. Don't believe me? Look up Marshall Kirk's name...His book, "After the Ball: Why the Homosexual Movement Has Won" & his other work, "The Overhauling of Straight America" only proves this point deeper. I've seen the changes myself over the last 30 yrs...We've come a long way, baby...Truly we have...And we are in deeper doodoo than ever...
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Challlie
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11:07 PM on 10/23/2011
since when does god's love have boundaries? i read a different book, my friend.
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Challlie
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10:59 PM on 10/23/2011
be mindful of anyone who offers warnings about anyone else who offers truth regarding a subject whose matter is wholly unverifiable. logic 1:01
one does not strengthen a claim to the truth when there is none by claiming other people are telling you the wrong truth.
you're a false prophet. test yourself. see, just as valid when i say it to you.
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.
Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.: "Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin" And Other Modern-Day Heresies
I believe those Christians who "hate" LGBT sexualities and gender expressions while allegedly "loving" LGBT people are nothing more than modern-day gnostics, who were condemned as heretical by early Church theologians.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FilipeCastro
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75 Fans
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12:08 AM on 10/22/2011
I am an atheist and could not care less about other peoples sexual lives. I think that it is mean and nosy in a vulgar way to be homophobic. But my problem with these guys is why is it that the Bible thumpers always bring in homophobia and never mention greed?!
I found these quotes that I think are eloquent:
Mathew 19:21: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Or Mathew 6:19: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal."
Or Luke: 12:33: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys."
Or Corinthians 6:9-11: "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, arsenokoitēs, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
Mmmhhh. All this talk about not paying taxes...
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treven
We are the music makers... .
47 Fans
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06:01 AM on 10/22/2011
Do you find it poetically ironic that you quoted a verse condemning homosexuals in your diatribe?
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Lucy0808
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12:22 PM on 10/22/2011
Not really. It wasn't on the list. However, you may put homosexuality in a different bucket of sin and consider it so.
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treven
We are the music makers... .
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03:53 PM on 10/22/2011
Corinthians refers to "arsenokoitēs".
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Lucy0808
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04:11 PM on 10/22/2011
That Greek word does not refer to homosexuality or homosexual sexacts. Please learn the linguistic history of the word and also how it was used first by Paul (decades after the death of Jesus).
It is important to learn a little about the topic.
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Feministo
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09:59 PM on 10/21/2011
Why do LGBT people want to belong to religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) whose holy texts condemn homosexuality and whose institutions have traditionally punished homosexcuality, even with the death? Why don't they just reject those religions? I mean, you can theorize as much as you want, contextualize the text, and explore languages and translations, but from statements such as "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22) or "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13), you will always have trouble to get a positive statement on homosexuality! Why do LGBT people don just say, thanks but no thanks to religions. Do it and lead the way!
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FilipeCastro
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11:57 PM on 10/21/2011
I fully agree.
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thereisonlyoneparty
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01:24 AM on 10/22/2011
I believe it boils down to the desire to be a part of a group. "Gay" has become a club (largely based around a homogeneous "culture"), but it does not give one any real meaning. It justifies the individual, but not much more.
So people desire to help "religion" as it answers the questions of why we are here (no reason), what is the meaning of life (again, nothing), and why we should be good (no objective reason; arguments of mutual benefit are somewhat valid). Yeah, these groups may be based on texts that say certain actions are "wrong", but "we" (not me and you, but society; I no in the group) can always find a group that ignores those parts and claims that it actually means that "god" is all cools with us.
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Lucy0808
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02:11 AM on 10/22/2011
Leviticus is the most hateful book in the Old Testament (Bible). So many horrible actions are in and supported by the religion. This is before Jesus, fundamentalist Christians do quote this book quite a bit. It is a book that shows a very mean, violent and disfunctional primate god. Not cool at all.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus. .
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08:50 PM on 10/21/2011
In this video, I see a man that is making a plea for an earthly relationship by which he is to be judged as wrong, just as those whom do evil to him or the like-minded, by the same God of justice. However, for those who think that telling God’s truth in love is evil or an attack, are wrong. It is what it is for all of us. Here what Jesus told his enemies who tried too trip him up on His Kingdom to come.
Matthew 22: 25- 32 King James Version
Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased , and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
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Toutlaguerre
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08:21 PM on 10/21/2011
It is shameful when religious leaders proudly advocate sin and immorality as part of their spiritual outreach program. It is a tragedy when people look up to those who show such blatant disregard for his laws and yet claim to be christian. Whilst the bible does not condone discrimination it's position on homosexuality is clear..it is an abomination.
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StevenM
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09:04 PM on 10/21/2011
It is shameful when you proudly advocate homophobic bigotry. Homosexuality is no more a sin than eating non-kosher, both of which were clearly condemned in the Bible.
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thereisonlyoneparty
more amazing than you .
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01:25 AM on 10/22/2011
So you admit is a "sin" in the view of the religion, but do not condemn those who try to utilize those religions to create new teachings to affirm their own views?
This is about feeling good. "God" loves everyone. Even people who do things that "god" does not like or did not mention specifically.
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StevenM
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07:06 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "So you admit [it] is a "sin" in the view of the religion ..."
No, I admit that the Bible was wrong to call it a sin, just as the Bible was wrong to call eating a hotdog a sin.
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aviandonn
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04:08 PM on 10/22/2011
This is about feeling good.
Or it's about feeling validated in your own personal beliefs. I suspect you feel that validation all the time and think, or course, that it comes from god. Doesn't every bible reader?
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Loggietoad
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11:22 AM on 10/22/2011
You know this argument is weak. Following your logic then murder is simply non-kosher as well.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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11:31 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "Following your logic then murder is simply non-kosher as well."
You misunderstand. My point is merely that Christians have rejected parts of the Bible. The kosher laws are simply an example. It is unfortunate that so many conservatives have been blinded by their ideology that they cannot tell the difference between a "sin" which causes harm like murder or adultery and a "sin" which does not cause any harm like eating non-kosher or a loving relationship between two consensual adults in a monogamous relationship. Homosexuality is no more a real "sin" than eating a hotdog, yet, both were condemned in the Bible, but neither of them causes any real harm. And neither of them are real sins.
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Loggietoad
Libertarian Combat Veteran .
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11:43 AM on 10/22/2011
I personally adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith which divide the laws into moral, civil, and ceremonial categories. I believe all moral laws still apply, as did Paul and every other writer in the New Testament.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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11:48 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "I believe all moral laws still apply, as did Paul and every other writer in the New Testament."
So do I!
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FilipeCastro
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11:58 PM on 10/21/2011
Relax. God does not exist and sins are inventions of maladjusted minds.
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whatsupcastleman
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04:54 PM on 10/22/2011
What is your reference point for morality ? Do you define good and evil ? Can your definition of good, be someone else's definition of evil ? I may believe murder is good, but you may think it is evil. If I applied my equally valid view to end your life, your construct would be voided out by mine.
This is all untrue though. Man has a certain knowledge of the truth written on their heart. This is why most people know stealing, telling lies, and murder are wrong.
But, that truth is suppressed in unrighteousness. People say God does not exist. But, it's obvious to me that a certain law is natural to man revealed in the creation.
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Lucy0808
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02:14 AM on 10/22/2011
It is a trajedy that people are so obsessed with their shariah law which includes being obsessed with sexual organs and how they are used. It is a shame that they are so obsessed with this and miss the most basic teachings of Jesus of compassion, forgiveness and helping the least among us. Of giving up your material goods. Of developing an open heart and a questioning and open mind to see objective truth.
It is astonishing how people cling to their rules and miss the point of it all. Life is so short and they miss life.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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02:40 PM on 10/22/2011
It is equally troubling that people who claim not to miss the most basic teachings of Jesus such as love, compassion and forgiveness ignore the most basic tenets of morality, such as prohibition of the expression of sexual feelings between two individuals of the same sex. Life is to short to miss that one.
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Lucy0808
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02:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Your bigotry is as plain as day.
There are all sort of rules of shariah the Christians have and yet you are focusing on homosexuality and so called naught parts and how they are used. These people are people of love and loving other people. They are born as homosexuals. The include food you can and cannot eat. Clothing you can and can't wear. Not being around people and having sex in mensus. Rules about slavery and women under subjugation. Giving away your material goods and so on. Yet you are obsessed with homosexuality and people expressing love. They aren't expressing hate nor are they behaving poorly. Yet this is what you focus on. I think that is incredibly sad. I would guess that you haven't dedicated your life to be a preacher and given up most of your material wealth. I would guess that you likely haven't given as much as 15% of your income to the least among us. I would guess that you haven't made your life in the way taught by Jesus. Yet you are here obsessing over homosexuality (people born to it) and their expression of love and ministry, and the way of Jesus.
Yes, I think you are a hypocrite. A shallow one. One not guided by love.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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01:59 AM on 10/23/2011
The topic of this post was homosexuality so those other laws that you mention as a means of petty fogging the issue are for another discussion. Let's focus from here on the original topic. Whilst it is commendable that people are able to show love to each other and give to other people the bible at 1 Sam 15:22 says, " It is better to obey than to sacrifice". Obedience requires modesty .ie. there are limits within which we can operate in order to please God. The limit on sexual intercourse is between two adults of the opposite sex that are married to each other. There is nothing that you can say to nullify that fundamental truth from God's word the bible. I am going to go out a limb here and say that "naught parts" refer to sexual organs and how they are being used. It is argued that there are people who are born with genetic dispositions to alcoholism etc but somehow they strive to do what is acceptable to God. So even if a person believes in their heart that they are genetically disposed to use their naught parts in homosexual acts, it is no excuse.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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11:52 AM on 10/22/2011
LOL. Many Christians and Jews do not believe the bible is the infallible word of god, but reflects the biases and misunderstandings of the men who wrote it and of the times in which they lived. Likewise they do not think that the passages in Leviticus, Romans, and 1 Corinthians apply to modern LGBTs in committed, loving, non-exploitative relationships.
You arrogantly believe that your authoritarian, fundamentalist approach is the only correct one. You falsely claim that you know the mind of god. For whatever personal reasons of your own, you have chosen the anti-gay version of your religion. Many would say that that is an abomination.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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02:27 PM on 10/22/2011
It would indeed be an abomination if I did use an authoritarian, fundamentalist approach, or shared the views of "many christians and Jews who who do not believe the bible is the unfallible word of God". Instead I choose Theocracy i.e rule by God. You should try that sometime so that you would not have to resort to calling someone who does not share your opinion arrogant. It might also be helpful if you read the context of those scriptures in Leviticus, Romans and 1 Corinthians with an honest heart and mind. For the one in Romans especially (Roman 1:32) shows that deep down inside a person practicing things the bible condemns knows exactly what they are doing. This as you can see has nothing to do with my "personal reasons" but the law of God, just so you know that it is God who has the absolute authority to decide what is right or wrong.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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05:51 PM on 10/22/2011
Then it's even worse than I imagined. Theocracy is the enemy of our American secular constitutional government.
Leviticus refers to idolatrous practices of temple prostitution and pederasty. Most of Paul's stuff condemning certain homosexual acts reflects Leviticus (hence his coining of arsenokoites to mimic the Hebrew in LEviticus) and again has nothing whatsoever to do with modern LGBTs in loving, committed, non-exploitative relationships. As for Romans, if you read it with a pure and open heart, you see it has to do with heterosexuals, not people who are born predominately homosexual.
And it doesn't make much difference, since the people who wrote those words had only a limited understanding of human sexuality, sexual orientation and gender identity in the first place. Just as they had a limited understanding of the germ theory of disease.
You've simply chosen to project onto god and the bible your own anti-gay bigotry, thereby making yourself feel righteous and safe. But the traditions are changing. You will be left behind.
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Toutlaguerre
eyes tell the story .
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04:20 PM on 10/23/2011
I think this phrase, "And it doesn't make much difference, since the people who wrote those words had only a limited understanding of human sexuality, sexual orientation and gender identity in the first place." is the key to understanding your pattern of reasoning. There is a saying that you can bring a horse to the pond but you cannot make him drink. The tragedy in a statement like that is you completely disregard the fact that the author of the bible is God and the principles and thoughts therein are not from "the people who wrote those words" but God. A person of this view will hardly appreciate that God's principles do not change even if people's outlook on them do. Rom 3:4 advises us " But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar"
It takes prayer ,meditation and desire to do the right thing in God's eyes to appreciate this level of spiritual thinking.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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05:22 PM on 10/23/2011
You reveal the essential flaw and foolishness of your position in the statement, "the author of the bible is God and the principles and thoughts therein are not from "the people who wrote those words" but God". That clearly shows the childish naivete of your understanding. The Bible is the record of the attempts of iron age Jewish men to understand how the world works and to encode the rules of conduct which they believed at the time were correct for their culture. They fit into the pattern of many ancient law givers who purport that their laws have been handed down by a deity, just as Hammurabi represented his famous code of laws as being handed down by the sun god Shamash. This gives the laws an appearence of greater authority. The ancient Israelites were no different in that respect. Unfortunately by mistaking the words of iron age Israelites and Jews for the ultimate and final word of god you are cutting yourself off from the living spirit of god. You arrogantly and foolishly believe that your way is the correct and only way. This leads you not only to limit your understanding of the world, but also to commit grave injustices against those of other faith traditions, such as Hindus and Muslims, and against the LGBT community. You have mistaken the bible for god. And that is a pitiable way to lead a life--in a darkness that you mistake for light.
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Lucy0808
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03:53 PM on 10/22/2011
You are simply a bigot.
These people practice love and lives of love. They dedicate their lives to helping others. How many can say that. Yet you are here obsessed with what you many call "naughty bits" and how they are used. That is so profoundly disfunctional. You miss the entire point of Jesus' teachings. It is sad.
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Toutlaguerre
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01:34 AM on 10/23/2011
Lucy, in my first post on this topic I clearly said that whilst the bible does not encourage discrimination it condemns homosexuality. So whilst you should not hate the person, it is grossly hypocritical for anyone to disregard Jesus' teachings on homosexual acts and yet claim that they understand what love is. What about love for God and Jesus and their teachings? Anyone that thinks practicing something immoral (whether in love or not) makes it acceptable has certainly missed the point about love for God and his son Jesus. It is painful that anyone would treat the moral laws and principles of such a loving God with utter disdain and disregard. In the first century if anyone was a practicer of homosexuality, fornication, etc they had to conform or change their ways if they desired to please God 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 plainly says "that is what some of you were". Jesus as the head of the congregation directed Paul to write these words.If you really cared anything about Jesus or his teachings you would never disregard his teachings on this matter. This is not a personal agenda I am pushing for I am not the author of the bible, God is. I am not the one condemning homosexuality, the teachings of God and Jesus already has that covered. So whether in a loving committed relationship or not homosexuality is wrong, plain and simple.
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Mychaeltodd Robinson
Min.Mychaeltodd, Executive Director of Fig Leaf Fi .
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07:50 PM on 10/21/2011
I'm so thankful to have had a Pastor & mentor like Bishop Yvette Flunder- she has a big heart, she's smart, she love's her people and she loves GOD!- Min.MYCHAELTODD
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TheWM
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03:06 PM on 10/21/2011
"Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities."
No, not all religions have had that problem. Hard as that may be to imagine to some people who are familiar primarily with Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
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01:01 PM on 10/21/2011
74% of American Catholics support legal recognition of same-sex unions (43% for marriage, 31% for civil unions). 44% young evangelicals support same-sex marraige. Reform, Reconstructionist, and Conservative Jews celebrate same-sex unions and ordain openly gay rabbis. They have come to the sensible conclusion that the Levitican prohibitions were targeting idolatrous practices of temple-prostitution or pederasty or else do not reflect a complete understanding of human sexuality. In either case, they have concluded it is unjust to apply them to modern LGBTs in loving, committed, non-exploitative religions.
The Judaeo-Christian tradition is transforming itself, from the bottom-up. As science establishes the fact that homosexuality is normal and natural, that same-sex couples raise children that are just as healthy as straight couples, that same-sex couples profit from the stability that marriages and cvil unions confer, is it surprising that large numbers of Christians and Jews are seeing that it is the old anti-gay versions which seek to exclude LGBTs or impose unjust and discriminatory restrictions on their behavior that are, in fact, the false teachings and the false doctrines--false teachings which the ears of the anti-gay bigots and authoritarians still itch to hear?
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thereisonlyoneparty
more amazing than you .
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01:28 AM on 10/22/2011
The Judaeo-Christian tradition is transforming itself, from the bottom-up. As science establishes the fact that homosexuality is normal and natural
Normal? No. Normal is what is expected. Suicide is not normal, for example, but it is natural. Note that normal is not a value judgment. It is just an observation of what is common in occurrence.
what does natural have to do with anything? Clothes are unnatural. So is agriculture and animal husbandry. And computers.
Religion is about morality. Morality has nothing to do with "natural." It is "natural" to have lots of sexual partners over the life of an individual ("serial monogamy"), but religion does not claim that is "good."
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Anthony Steven Lewis
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09:32 AM on 10/22/2011
I'm guessing this what brought up as many opponents of that lifestyle tout it as "unnatural" and therefore against the will of God (since he created nature and all).
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:20 PM on 10/22/2011
Catholics dont adhere to the bible teachings ie. calling Pope father, lighting candles for the dead, pergatory, doing pennance for sins changing the sabbath from sat to sun, praying to idols and other humans... need I go on?
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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02:05 PM on 10/22/2011
Worshiping the bible as you seem to do is not the only way. The bible was written by men for men to control men and reflects the limited understanding of people of that time. Need I go on?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:23 PM on 10/22/2011
I worship the true and living God. The scriptures are His word sent so that we could know Him. People of that time created the pyramids. Aint a building today show a more comprehensive understanding. Say what?
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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03:45 PM on 10/22/2011
LOL! You need to throw that bible of yours away. It's thoroughly confused you. You no more know that you are worshiping the true and living god than does a Muslim or a Hindu. And your approach of worshipping the bible has no more intrinsic merit than those Christians who see the bible as the work of fallible humans through which the spirit of god can nonetheless be discerned. You"ve just chosen the anti-gay version of Christianity to justify your own anti-gay bigotry and make yourself feel better. You arrogantly pretend that you know the mind of god. Others use the bible in a different way.
No ancient Egyptian architect could build the Petronas Towers. But modern architects could build a pyramid. Egyptians had a limited understand of architectural possibilities, techniques and materials.
The average Egyptian lifespan was 33 for men and 29 for women. Looks like they didn't have it all figured out on the medical front either.
People back then were limited--as was their understanding of sexual orientation and gender identity.
Fortunately Judaism and Christianity are evolving to become LGBT inclusive and LGBT affirming.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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03:58 PM on 10/22/2011
What is to understand? God in His word said it is unseemly behavior that ought not to be. He created man. How you gonna tell Him he dont know what He is talking about?
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LintLass
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06:03 PM on 10/22/2011
You already have. But you and your fear of 'idols.' Catholics say 'Pagans do that,' Protestants say 'Catholics do that, ' ...since when or Protestants authorities on what Pagans do, never mind what Catholics say the difference is, when they pretty much make the same ignorant accusations ...None of which seem to be premised on more than the idea that someone else doesn't know how to pray even in proximity to some kind of statue or something? (Of course, then, some Muslims will say that Protestants use too many images...) :) On and on.
Then on through maybe various branches of Buddhism saying, 'That's all illusion, too,' on to Zen saying *whack* It really isn't not-illusion! Then atheists being, 'No it's not,' then we're back to animists and the like being, 'You know it's all alive, anyway, ' then we're back to Pagans being like, 'And now we're going to keeping this grove, maybe carve something in it.
You're just part of this whole grand cycle of people trying to have a spiritual life in a world with ...stuff in it. :)
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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06:16 PM on 10/22/2011
WTH?
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Stand Up for your Belief
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01:41 PM on 10/22/2011
People need to get away from "tradition" and MAN made religion and follow what the Bible says.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
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02:10 PM on 10/22/2011
LOL! The bible was written by men for men to control men. It reflects all the limitations and prejudices of the men who wrote it. People need to evolve beyond their narrow bibliolatry.
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StevenM
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03:54 PM on 10/21/2011
Re: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."
2 Tim. 4:3-4 15 leaders that fit the above scripture.
Or, it could be your notion of Christianity fits the above scripture best. Your view of Christian seems to have all the trappings of Christianity without the love and compassion. Instead of love, you preach a religion of hate and animosity towards those who are different.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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10:28 PM on 10/21/2011
No it couldnt be that actually since the above scripture embodies the other existing scriptures such as the ones found in Leviticus and Romans. It clearly says a departure from existing scripture, which I have not done.
I preach love within the context of the God's word. Not a love that condones sinful acts. Jesus didnt even do that. Thats moral relativism and it is ascriptural. You are welcome to your opinion, you arent welcome to rewrite the meaning of scripture. Afterall if you arent going to adhere to scripture, why use the Bible at all? Just make up your own religion. It would be alot easier for you and everyone else.
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StevenM
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07:21 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "You are welcome to your opinion, you arent welcome to rewrite the meaning of scripture. After all if you arent going to adhere to scripture, why use the Bible at all?"
I've never rewritten the meaning of scripture; rather I've rejected scripture, just like the early Christians did!
Hebrew scripture taught that eating non-kosher was a sin, it taught that one should cease all work on the Sabbath from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, and it taught that circumcision was an "everlasting covenant." The early Christians rejected scripture. The early Christians taught that it was okay to eat non-kosher, and they taught that one didn't have to be physically circumcised, and they eventually rejected keeping the Sabbath, and instead worshiped on the "Lord's Day" (Sunday).
Furthermore, the early Christians never taught that scripture was the highest authority; rather they held Christ and his gospel as having authority over scripture. They taught that we "have a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor 3:6); and "if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law" (Gal 5:18). Conservatives have rejected being led by the Spirit in favor of the dead letter of scripture.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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08:42 AM on 10/22/2011
You are mixing apples and oranges. The New Covenant is accepted by evangelicals and conservatives as well obviously. Unless you seem them keeping kosher? There is support in the New Testament for such things. There is no support however for rejection of the moral laws. Being led by the Spirit means in consultation with the scriptures, not in a "whatever seems right" way.
No, being subject to the law meant that we are not subject to its penalites(death) for our sins since Jesus paid the price for them. WHich is why the Levitical Priestly Codes( blended fabrics, shellfish etc) and things like stoning no longer apply. Not being subject to the law did not however mean that morally we have no further obligation to obey it. Those early Christians were not running around stealing, comitting adultery, incest or bestiality, not justifiably so. They still kept the Lord's Day holy, they simply changed the days. Some liberals favor being led by any spirit over God's word.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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09:09 AM on 10/22/2011
Re: "There is no support however for rejection of the moral laws."
Your whole diatribe merely argues for my point, since there is nothing immoral about homosexuality.
Re: "They still kept the Lord's Day holy, they simply changed the days."
That is not true, and shows a lack of understanding between the two. It is not merely that the days were changed, but the mode of observing changed as well. Sabbath observance is about not working. The Ten Commandments teach that from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown the whole community should cease work, including children, slaves, livestock, and foreigners. There is nothing in the Ten Commandments about attending a worship service. On the other hand, Christians meet for worship on Sunday, the "Lord's Day", the day after the Sabbath. Many early Christians observed both, the Sabbath (on Saturday) and then on the following day attended Sunday worship. Many Christians were still doing this in the 4th century. Eventually, Sabbath observance died out among the Christians (around the 9th century). But the two are completely different in the days used and the mode of observance.
It was only in the 16th century that some Christians started to mistake Sunday for the Sabbath, in part out of ignorance, and in part out of a desire to pretend that they were following the Ten Commandments. Indeed, "blue laws" in the US are a remnant of this mistaken identity. It is unfortunate how many Christians are simply ignorant of these basic facts.
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tomp0228
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09:54 AM on 10/22/2011
Isn't it amazing that people can so pervert God's word? I thank my Lord Jesus that people like you are willing to tell the truth in the face of so many who aren't interested in the truth.
Maybe by your truthful words, someone will come to accept Christ and His Word.
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detroitblkmale30
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11:43 AM on 10/22/2011
um, no it hardly argues for your point. There is according to the scriptures something sinful about same sex acts.Then why in this mostly Christian country even 2,000 years later for the last 100-200 years did we have almost every establishment closed on Sunday? Do people work today? Sure, but you can find numerous establishments closed on Sundays and that is because of grounding in precisely what I said, moving the observance of the Lord's Day to Sunday and for the most part not working. That's why its known typically as a day of rest. It's not an ignorance to the basic facts. Christians know what the original JEWISH sabbath was. Using your argument Christians would observe passover and the other Jewish holidays. None of that however has anything to do with sin of same sex acts listed in both the OT and NT. This is all a strawman argument; because one unrelated law is or isnt obeserved that another is or isnt valid. Its's a reach no matter how you slice it.
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detroitblkmale30
Wise Men Still Seek Him .
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11:49 AM on 10/22/2011
Amen Tomp. That is my only issue. I hate to see the word twisted, not matter what it is twisted in favor of.
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shawnie5
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01:00 PM on 10/22/2011
If you're led by the Spirit the moral law is superfluous because the Spirit won't lead you to violate it anyway. This is what the prophets were foretelling when they said He said He would write His law upon our HEARTS.
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Pale Writer
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01:08 PM on 10/22/2011
I'm not sure if StevenM is correctly understanding what Paul is speaking of in Galatians 5. The letter of the Law was the Old Testament. It does not mean that we are to ignore the instructions given in the New Testament. I'm not sure what "conservatives" out there are abiding by the OT Law and ignoring the Holy Spirit, but I sure don't know any of them.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness For Jesus? .
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04:32 AM on 10/21/2011
Caption suggestion; " Lets be good bad examples "
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Hamid Fana
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01:17 AM on 10/21/2011
Imam Daayiee Abdullah is not inspiring..a quick glimpse of his website shows that he's running a business charging exorbitant rates couseling and conducting marriages ($1000) WHICH under Islamic law are expectations of a community leader (Imam) i.e. free to the community.. not something to make money off of.. historically, the greatest leaders of Muslim communities have not only been religious leaders but also doctors, scientists, authors, warriors, or business men which gave them a source of income so they don't depend on charging people for religious duties.. if a poor Muslim wants to get married, he has the right to it without having to spend thousands to get this fake Imam..... as a queer of Muslim background, i find this guy repulsive.
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TexasTreader
Gone fishin' .
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11:19 AM on 10/21/2011
The Christian Apostle, Paul, ALSO made a point of supporting himself by his own work. I've always been suspicious of professional clergy. I understand the attraction and I don't see scripture forbidding it but there is a command to not use God's name vainly. I'd sure like to stay on the right side of THAT line.
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FilipeCastro
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11:59 PM on 10/21/2011
I think that the Christian Apostle Paul is a fictional character, but I agree with you.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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01:00 AM on 10/21/2011
It's encouraging that Christianity and Judaism are evolving out of their anti-gay bigotry phase. The authoritarian religionists here who arrogantly think that their anti-gay version of their faith is the correct one are the ones who are being left behind.
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phyrro
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02:05 AM on 10/21/2011
As a non gay atheist against anti-gay bigotry, I might think that some of these religious leaders are a "start". Not completely understanding all the circumstances I would like to learn what your objections to these "go-gooders" are.
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TomMartin
Freedom and equality. .
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04:30 AM on 10/21/2011
I think you misunderstood the poster.
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Varys
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01:07 PM on 10/21/2011
The anti-gay version of Christianity is the one that acknowledges holy scripture. Whether that's the "correct" one I'll leave for you to decide.
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Balancement
Timendi causa est nescire. -- Seneca .
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12:31 AM on 10/21/2011
I suppose I should wade through the posts below--but I'm carrying with me the wisdom of Bishop John Shelby Spong as a shield: "Too many people use the Bible as a drunk does a lamp-post; for support, rather than illumination."
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ashiraladonai777
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02:50 PM on 10/23/2011
How do you figure when the vast majority of Americans are Biblically-ILLiterate anymore? They wouldn't know what to stand on let alone use it for support.
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Challlie
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11:18 PM on 10/23/2011
there are plenty of countries with a more dense population of biblically-literate people. we're at war with a few of them. distance between a person and his or her bible does not equate to distance between a person and god.
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duncansdad
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10:39 PM on 10/20/2011
The postings here by the folks who like to think they are the most religious, are the some of the most vicious and hateful I have seen in a while.
Shame on you all.
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Challlie
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07:48 PM on 10/20/2011
i've noticed a direct relationship between the number of bible quotations in a post and the number of grammatical and spelling errors.
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FilipeCastro
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12:00 AM on 10/22/2011
:o) I live in Texas and I agree with you!
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ashiraladonai777
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02:49 PM on 10/23/2011
I see. And your lack of capitalization in "I" says nothing either, I take it...? Hubris...
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lastwarning2earth rev14
DeceptionExposer .
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06:53 PM on 10/20/2011
Jesus is the pattern, I follow, and know one else.
There are Many false teachers.
Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them"
There goes everyone on the above list and then some.
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duncansdad
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10:33 PM on 10/20/2011
And you should go, as well
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Lucy0808
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1196 Fans
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11:42 PM on 10/20/2011
You missed the whole point of Jesus' teachings. The irony is amazing.
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phyrro
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225 Fans
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02:20 AM on 10/21/2011
You quote "If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, theres no light in them" and I say
"If you speak not my Law or the testimony, theres no light in you". For I, the 53rd OverGod am the the True God and your God is merely a peon.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
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04:07 PM on 10/21/2011
Re: Isa. 8:20 " If they speak not to the Law or the testimony, there's no light in them"
Nothing like misquoting a passage from the Bible out of context to make a point!
Isaiah 8:20 refers to those who seek guidance from ghosts and spirits (see verse 19).
"Now if people say to you, ‘Consult the ghosts and the familiar spirits that chirp and mutter; should not a people consult their gods, the dead on behalf of the living, for teaching and for instruction?’ surely, those who speak like this will have no dawn!" (Isaiah 8:19-20).
Re: "There are Many false teachers."
Should we count you as one of them?
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ashiraladonai777
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18 Fans
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02:53 PM on 10/23/2011
Matthew 7:15
[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Test yourself...
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach .
554 Fans
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03:25 PM on 10/23/2011
You will know them by their fruit. What fruit is this?
"By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things" (Galatians 5:22-23).
The false prophets preach a message of condemnation and hate. Many conservative Christians supported slavery, then they supported Jim Crow laws and segregation; they fought against federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights. In the 1940s, most conservative Christians were Democrats, but as the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, many conservative Christians switched parties from the Democrats to the Republicans, thus making the Republican Party the party of conservative Christians, a direct result of their thinly veiled racism.
Mainline Protestant Churches are inclusive to the point where many of them are now ordaining those in same-sex relationships. But the conservative Christians are like ravenous wolves attempting to condemn and devour anyone who is different. They don't preach God's love, but rather preach condemnation and hate.
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ashiraladonai777
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18 Fans
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09:36 PM on 10/23/2011
On the point of slavery, it wouldn't be the first time that some professing the faith have used it as a cover for other selfish agendas. They have forgotten God in those instances, & one day, they'll have to stand before Him to give an account of their actions.
As regards the ordination of people in same-sex relationships, it has nothing to do with being "different", but it has everything to do w/ what is sinful in Scripture. God's love is already DEFINED: Even Jesus reaffirmed the model of marriage in the NT that was based on the creation model: one man to one woman...for LIFE. Any other model is nothing but a counterfeit of God's model. As God already defined what love is since HE IS LOVE, no man has the authority nor the right to profane that model for their own selfish agenda. What people have chosen to call "love" in our current culture is nothing short of lust masquerading as love...And to push that agenda thru, some have resorted to some interesting tactics. Don't believe me? Look up Marshall Kirk's name...His book, "After the Ball: Why the Homosexual Movement Has Won" & his other work, "The Overhauling of Straight America" only proves this point deeper. I've seen the changes myself over the last 30 yrs...We've come a long way, baby...Truly we have...And we are in deeper doodoo than ever...
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Challlie
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44 Fans
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11:07 PM on 10/23/2011
since when does god's love have boundaries? i read a different book, my friend.
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Challlie
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44 Fans
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10:59 PM on 10/23/2011
be mindful of anyone who offers warnings about anyone else who offers truth regarding a subject whose matter is wholly unverifiable. logic 1:01
one does not strengthen a claim to the truth when there is none by claiming other people are telling you the wrong truth.
you're a false prophet. test yourself. see, just as valid when i say it to you.
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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