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09:38 AM on 11/09/2011
Ref: " ...sins today." Sins are defined as missing the mark of God's will. In Leviticus and Joshua, the Hebrews were told by God to "genocide" neighboring tribes in the Promised Land. How does that coincide with the "Do not kill" commandment? First, understand that God's mission and fulfillment of the promise to Abraham meant that God was going to use the Hebrews to provide His salvation solution. Second, recognize that commandments are not equal. There are priorities (see Matthew 22:36-40). Third, recognize that the neighboring tribes were very influential upon the Hebrews when they remained to influence them in the worship of other "supposed" gods. In most ethical societies today, the loss of many is never outweighed by the loss of few. God, in His omniscience, gave the command to "genocide" neighboring tribes in order to save billions in the future through His salvation solution. All the commands in the Torah were designed to keep the Hebrews unique and separated. Notice that the Hebrews are the only people I'm aware of that have genealogies as deep in this span of time and why both Matthew and Luke traced Jesus' genealogy, at least, back to Abraham. The reason Christians focus on the top two priority commandments over Torah law is twofold: 1) Jesus' priority (see above) and 2) God has provided His salvation solution. However, please note that Jesus said that the law will never go away; it is just tertiary in priority to the two commandments.
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10:05 PM on 10/22/2011
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.
My guess is that if you believe an follow a literal interpretation of the bible something is going "hit the fan" in short order.
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09:23 AM on 10/25/2011
A literal interpretation of the Bible also includes one where the Bible is read in its proper theological context. When you include the New Covenant.the punishment for what you have written are inapplicable thanks to Jesus.
I wish that people really studied Christianity before they copied and pasted "gotcha" scriptures to promote a false sense of conundrum as well as a completely unrelated support for other actions.
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05:41 AM on 10/26/2011
What you have offered is nothing more than spin without addressing the real problems raised. You claim that "the punishment for what you have written are inapplicable thanks to Jesus," but you didn't address the real problem, when were they ever moral? If the Bible is a moral book, when was it ever moral to put a child to death for cursing his or her parents? When was it ever moral to put people to death for adultery? When was it ever moral to put two gay men to death for being gay? When was it ever moral to put a young girl to death because she didn't remain a virgin before getting married? These are not simply "gotcha" questions, but address a deeper issue, the Bible's commandments are often immoral themselves. Frankly, many more examples could be given illustrating this point. These commandments are not only "inapplicable thanks to Jesus," but immoral in themselves. Furthermore, your notion that they are now "inapplicable thanks to Jesus" is just your personal spin. And if many of the commandments in Hebrew scripture are immoral, who is to say that some of the commandments in the New Testament are not immoral also?
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02:02 PM on 11/08/2011
"My guess is that if you believe an follow a literal interpretation of the bible something is going "hit the fan" in short order. "
Only when you confront people who are determined to live however they please regardless of whether or not there is a God and how that God may want them to live.
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02:13 PM on 11/08/2011
salvation isn't dependent on what anyone does. Living right,or uh learning to live right and growing more and more in the knowledge and fear of the Lord,is a "result" of having already been saved,not a means to it.
That said..all men/women are commanded to obey God..and really,who can really, know for sure if they have or have not been saved,when it is all up to God.So..we live and learn and try anyway and hope and pray we are his..if we are not..well it is not somethimg we ever deserved anyway.
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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Sohailhs
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08:51 PM on 11/10/2011
homosexuality is indeed immoral behavior and is a major sin in Islam. The practice of homosexuality began with the people of Lut (Alyhis Salaam). Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Quran:
????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????????
“And (remember) Lut, when he said to his people: Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceded you has committed in the worlds?” (7:80)
In this verse, the word “Fahishah”, which means an atrocious, obscene, lewd, shameless act, is referring to the practice of homosexuality. After the people of Sodom ignored the warnings of Lut (Alayhis Salaam) to stop this act and to follow the true path, Allah Ta’ala wiped them out with a severe punishment by turning their towns upside down and burying them with stones of baked clay. This was a telling punishment by Allah Ta’ala for going against the natural order created by Him.
Allah Ta’ala has also stated in several places of the Quran that He has created men and women so that they may be mates for each other (in marriage). The inception of marriage for mankind on Earth was to maintain the human race through procreation. Therefore, it is absolutely clear that homosexuality is strictly prohibited.
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rey del nada
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07:31 AM on 11/02/2011
I believe many Muslim scholars would indicate that Irshad Manji is in fact not Muslim.
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05:36 PM on 10/31/2011
Congratulations to Archbishop Michael Seneco for his pastoral leadership.
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07:22 PM on 10/28/2011
Homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end. It is contrary to the survival of the species. Just facts.
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GDWhiteman
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12:54 PM on 10/29/2011
Our species is in no apparent danger of going extinct as a result of too few of us.
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LintLass
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01:57 AM on 10/30/2011
Funny thing about that is that you really have to be a breeder who doesn't understand we're a social species to say that.
If this was about breeding, we wouldn't be talking here, cause we wouldn't. We'd be breeding.
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05:47 AM on 10/28/2011
You people who have lost yourselves to the mental and emotional illness that is lgbt Lost-Goofy-Boneheads n Twits need to resign yourselves to The Written Word and not try and bend it to fit whatever platform which you "choose" to speak from!! The bottom line here, ooops uhhm sorry boys NOT that one, is to learn The Truth and then refrain from doing any more of what ails you currently and Pray that your footsteps and heart will lead you to "A New Understanding" so that the old way of life is left behind making it possible for "A New Creature" to appear, one who is
ready and obedient To Both Keep and Do The Will and Word Of God Almighty!! Heyy, don't get mad at me, just get it together and change your acts so that you DO NOT INFLUENCE THE AS YET UNEXPOSED AND THE YOUNG WHO HAVE NOT EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO LEARN, KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE SCOURGE AND VILE ILLNESS THAT WOULD TAKE THEM ALL SO WILLINGLY!!!!
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08:07 AM on 10/28/2011
You may or may not be a little nutty.... BUT....
You do have a point there when you say, "Do not influence the as yet unexposed." Truth be told, that is precisely the m.o. of some in the LGBT community (as well as others obsessed with sexualizing our entire culture).
Take NY, for example, where sarting next year there will be mandated sex ed starting in middle school which will teach people in as early as 7th grade not about the mechanics of sex or the biology, but about anal sex, homosexuality, anal sex, and, my personal favorite, "oral sex with braces." The students will be given 'risk cards' detailing different sexual acts with a detailed rating on them for each (as if any sexual act is really 'safe' for a 7th grader).
While I'm a bit skeptical of your post (seems a little over the top for me), I will say that you hit the nail on the head with that one statement. For the most part, unless specifically brought to their attention, a 7th grader would likely not even consider many of the things that are slated to be taught to them next year. (Feel free to do a Google News search)
The funny thing is, "they" continuously force sex into society's youth, then turn around and say, "Well, kids are doing it anyway, so we might as well address it." It's like a glass shop owner smashing neighborhood windows on the weekend.
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10:20 AM on 10/28/2011
F&F
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09:25 AM on 10/28/2011
lol. Umm. I think you should re-read the written word. Its not these people that are bending it. Its the tradition that has been around for 700 years that bent it. Yes 700 not 2000.
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10:21 AM on 10/28/2011
Sorry that doesnt fly. The twisting is being done by these leaders the written Biblical word doesnt equivocate.
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06:53 PM on 10/27/2011
Reverend Mel White, founder of Soulforce should also be included. Congrats to all.
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10:55 AM on 10/27/2011
What? No Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence?
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11:23 AM on 10/26/2011
Reclaim?
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07:47 AM on 10/26/2011
I believe that the unbiased love of the Almighty is for all of mankind who are seeking relief through a Higher Power. I believe that God is raising up a people who have put on the armor of the Holy Spirit to restore the true teachings of Christ as each is inspired by the wisdom of God's messenger. I also think it wise to listen to and understand the reasoning of some atheists. Judgementalism is as rampant among as many who claim to be Christians as is among some radicals in the Muslim faith. Christians have been programmed to look down on some just as southerners have been programmed to look down on people with dark skin. God is a Spirit of love and truth. God's spiritual love does not require physical contact.
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12:49 PM on 10/26/2011
well said.
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11:57 PM on 10/23/2011
I tried adding a slide, but it didn't go through - and he may not be eligible for this list since he died earlier this year, but I don't see how it can be complete without a mention of Rev. Peter Gomes. A brilliant preacher and writer, he came out in 1991. His "The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Mind and Heart," written a couple of years later, opened many minds (including mine).
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02:04 PM on 10/24/2011
Gomes was an amazing man.
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06:57 PM on 10/23/2011
What a great cloud of witnesses -- many of whom I am honored to call friends and brothers and sisters in the struggle. They show us that it is long past time time to take to heart the words of Rabbi Abraham Heschel, who famously said, “Few are guilty, but all are responsible.” We -- progressive people of faith -- may not be guilty of the religion based bigotry that has wounded countless members of God’s beloved LGBT children but we responsible for offering a counter-narrative to the lies that have been told about the God we serve – the God of love, justice and compassion.
Also on my list: Rabbi Denise Eger; Rabbi Temple Kol Ami, founding member of HRC Religion Council and past-president So Cal Board of Rabbis and the Very Reverend Michael Hopkins; past-president of Integrity USA and an architect of the Episcopal Church's movement forward on LGBT ordinations and the blessing of same-sex union.
The Reverend Canon Susan Russell
Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles/All Saints Church, Pasadena
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12:48 AM on 10/23/2011
Missed a few--- Carter Hayward, lesbian, Episcopal priest and writer; Amy deLong, Methodist pastor recently stood trial for officiating at the marriage of two women; Rev. Dr. William Johnson, first openly gay man to be ordained by a mainline Protestant church (United Church of Christ)
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HGfromOmaha
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10:56 PM on 10/22/2011
Oh! This is going to be good! I haven't even read the comments yet but I'm going to grab a drink and start reading the "Christians" attacking one another! I can almost visualize all the pasting of Bible verses that's about to take place. Can't wait to count how many times the term "true Christian" is used!
This is going to be great!
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Lucy0808
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10:40 PM on 10/22/2011
Most of the items that were called sins in the bible are not considered sins today. It keeps changing and even the most conservative reactionary Christian doesn't call all of the sins of the bible sins for today. Mylord, the bible supported slavery in a jolly way and sujugation of women and other people especially the gentiles. In Leviticus, the jews were allowed to wipe out villages with women and children included. Everyone. No religious sect in modern times advocates such stuff although it was in the not so long ago past.
Most of the posts by Christians on this thread have been anything but Christian with the love and forgiveness described by Jesus. Like Gandhi said, "I like your Jesus, but the Christians, not so much". I feel the same after reading the posts here and having dialogues with some pretty bigoted dark people. I'm sure there are very good people. I know there are, but in this thread most have been dreaming some very dark dreams with a very mean avatar.
My daughter is gay and I raised her through her tough life. She is a very intelligent, thoughtful human being. Her depth and open heart and mind is a wonder for me to see. She is now in a loving relationship. She is teaching me about love. Love. Love and laughter. Love and compassion. Understanding. There is no way that her behavior is sin. It is love.
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HGfromOmaha
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11:23 PM on 10/22/2011
You know they're going to lash out at you and say some evil things Lucy......and it's supposed to come from a place of "love".......the same mentality as what they used in boot camp....."The beatings will continue until morale improves"......
Good for you and your daughter. You're supposed to be there for her. That's your child. She is who she is. I believe in God and God doesn't make mistakes. He makes people as they are.
So many people are hung up on the Bible, not knowing where it came from, when it was written, by whom it was written, how the books were selected, and which books were left out. Let's talk about the Gospel of Thomas and how Jesus viewed true salvation. Of course this means nothing to the "scholars" you'll see writing on these pages because they refuse to acknowledge anything they can't understand or regurgitate from memory.
Oh well. I love reading the attacks. These people truly believe their own hype. Arrogant. Prideful. Boastful. Condescending.
Disgusting.
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11:47 AM on 10/23/2011
Thank you for posting a gracious and supportive post. A needed "pause or reprieve" on this thread to say the least. It doesn't fix this problem of over the top self-righteousness, but acknowledges the silliness.
Peace be with you.
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08:03 PM on 11/08/2011
I am a Christian and if anyone were to attack Lucy on this issue or any other, I would be the first one to draw my sword (metaphorically speaking) and defend her. She is not a Christian. I believe she is Buddhist. So none of this applies to her or her daughter. Everyone deserves to live in peace. Even on a message board. Just because folks engage in discussion, it does not always equate to "attack". Everyone gets a chance to make their stance, get challenged, and defend it. It's called civil discourse. Those who decide to chide and belittle, do not get the opportunity for intelligent dialogue. Most people will not engage them. Sure folks can be arrogant, prideful, boastful and condescending. I have seen my share from Atheists attacking me...but it makes no difference to me. I shake off the dust from my shoes and move on. Disgusting walks on both sides of the street...
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09:38 AM on 11/09/2011
Ref: " ...sins today." Sins are defined as missing the mark of God's will. In Leviticus and Joshua, the Hebrews were told by God to "genocide" neighboring tribes in the Promised Land. How does that coincide with the "Do not kill" commandment? First, understand that God's mission and fulfillment of the promise to Abraham meant that God was going to use the Hebrews to provide His salvation solution. Second, recognize that commandments are not equal. There are priorities (see Matthew 22:36-40). Third, recognize that the neighboring tribes were very influential upon the Hebrews when they remained to influence them in the worship of other "supposed" gods. In most ethical societies today, the loss of many is never outweighed by the loss of few. God, in His omniscience, gave the command to "genocide" neighboring tribes in order to save billions in the future through His salvation solution. All the commands in the Torah were designed to keep the Hebrews unique and separated. Notice that the Hebrews are the only people I'm aware of that have genealogies as deep in this span of time and why both Matthew and Luke traced Jesus' genealogy, at least, back to Abraham. The reason Christians focus on the top two priority commandments over Torah law is twofold: 1) Jesus' priority (see above) and 2) God has provided His salvation solution. However, please note that Jesus said that the law will never go away; it is just tertiary in priority to the two commandments.
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10:05 PM on 10/22/2011
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.
My guess is that if you believe an follow a literal interpretation of the bible something is going "hit the fan" in short order.
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09:23 AM on 10/25/2011
A literal interpretation of the Bible also includes one where the Bible is read in its proper theological context. When you include the New Covenant.the punishment for what you have written are inapplicable thanks to Jesus.
I wish that people really studied Christianity before they copied and pasted "gotcha" scriptures to promote a false sense of conundrum as well as a completely unrelated support for other actions.
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05:41 AM on 10/26/2011
What you have offered is nothing more than spin without addressing the real problems raised. You claim that "the punishment for what you have written are inapplicable thanks to Jesus," but you didn't address the real problem, when were they ever moral? If the Bible is a moral book, when was it ever moral to put a child to death for cursing his or her parents? When was it ever moral to put people to death for adultery? When was it ever moral to put two gay men to death for being gay? When was it ever moral to put a young girl to death because she didn't remain a virgin before getting married? These are not simply "gotcha" questions, but address a deeper issue, the Bible's commandments are often immoral themselves. Frankly, many more examples could be given illustrating this point. These commandments are not only "inapplicable thanks to Jesus," but immoral in themselves. Furthermore, your notion that they are now "inapplicable thanks to Jesus" is just your personal spin. And if many of the commandments in Hebrew scripture are immoral, who is to say that some of the commandments in the New Testament are not immoral also?
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eric0063
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02:02 PM on 11/08/2011
"My guess is that if you believe an follow a literal interpretation of the bible something is going "hit the fan" in short order. "
Only when you confront people who are determined to live however they please regardless of whether or not there is a God and how that God may want them to live.
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Binea
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02:13 PM on 11/08/2011
salvation isn't dependent on what anyone does. Living right,or uh learning to live right and growing more and more in the knowledge and fear of the Lord,is a "result" of having already been saved,not a means to it.
That said..all men/women are commanded to obey God..and really,who can really, know for sure if they have or have not been saved,when it is all up to God.So..we live and learn and try anyway and hope and pray we are his..if we are not..well it is not somethimg we ever deserved anyway.
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eric0063
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02:31 PM on 11/08/2011
Jesus said: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:3)
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)
We can know for sure that we have eternal life. Jesus paid the price in full. The Holy Spirit is given to us as a guarantee (or down payment) for what Jesus has purchased through his shed blood.
As saved, we are continually working out our salvation, meaning we take what is inside of us and continually try to work it to the outside, or thoughts, words, and actions.
"if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10)
You're right though, none of us deserve it, but God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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Binea
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03:18 PM on 11/08/2011
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
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eric0063
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03:30 PM on 11/08/2011
But Jesus also says:
Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. (Revelation 3:20)
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16)
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
The Bible consistently portrays acceptance by the believer as a requirement, AND it also consistently portrays that we are predestined. A paradox.
We can only view predestination from our limited perspective. We think of eternity as a timeline with arrows at both ends. Eternity is not just lots of time, it's being outside of time altogether. We have no means of comprehending this.
The whole conflict of free will and predestination is resolved when you step outside of time, but because we can't do that from here, the apparent paradox remains.
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Binea
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04:05 PM on 11/08/2011
you can not hear the knock if you do not have the ears to hear it.
yes,if we believe in Jesus..but what does that mean ? that we believed he existed and exist ? "even the devils believe and tremble" I think it means ,we believe HE did the Work,and we can only believe that,IF he has done the work..see ?
I understand time is sort of an illusion.Though we exist in it.God is not bound by time..he is the " I AM",I also understand that he is the creator and the saviour,I am not.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
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Binea
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03:36 PM on 11/08/2011
and...
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
then there is Romans chapter 9..it is ALL over the Bible
Lazarus is a very good example of Salvation.
while he was dead in that tomb,did he lay there deciding whether he wanted to obey Jesus or not ? NO.that would be impossible.
God had to give him life,the ears to hear AND the will and ability to obey.
Freewill doctrin leads to self righteousness ..which is why i think he has made it impossible for us to save ourselves. we must rely Completely on him.
"least any man should boast"
so..I am ok with it.I think I understand why it MUST be this way.
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eric0063
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03:55 PM on 11/08/2011
The price was paid by another (Jesus) and presents eternal life to us as a gift. But as with any other gift we are free to accept or reject it.
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Binea
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08:01 PM on 11/08/2011
if you are his you can not,will not reject it. Stop trying to take any credit.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
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Binea
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03:49 PM on 11/08/2011
Mark 1:40 And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mark 1:41 And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.
Mark 1:42 And as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, and he was cleansed.
also..hwo do you give all the glory and praise to God,if you take credit for anything ? Notice that the leper understood that if God wanted to,he could heal him,but the Lper did not know if God wanted to...so he asked ? But,he was admitting in that asking that it is ONLY God that could.
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03:52 PM on 11/08/2011
ok ok Last one for now lol I keep thinking of more
Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
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Inspiring LGBT Religious Leaders
By Paul Brandeis Raushenbush Posted: 10/20/2011 1:45 pm EDT | Updated: 09/04/2013 12:21 pm EDT
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Reflecting and shaping the culture in which it is embedded, religion has historically been hostile to LGBT-identified people and communities. However, over the last three decades more denominations, congregations and individuals have come out in support of honoring the full humanity of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people. Today, hundreds, if not thousands, of religious communities are truly places of celebration, healing and hope for all people.
This initial list of 15 ground breaking individuals is just a sampling of the many LGBT religious leaders who have reclaimed religious traditions and communities. We hope that you will use the feature on this slideshow to add gay religious leaders who you feel should be included. Meanwhile, we thankfully acknowledge the ongoing contributions of these inspiring religious leaders.
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Rev. Dr. Mark Achtemeier
Rev. Dr. Mark Achtemeier: Coming Out as an Evangelical Supporter of Gay Rights
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Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.: What Was the Real Sin of Sodom?
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Rev. Patrick S. Cheng, Ph.D.: "Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin" And Other Modern-Day Heresies
I believe those Christians who "hate" LGBT sexualities and gender expressions while allegedly "loving" LGBT people are nothing more than modern-day gnostics, who were condemned as heretical by early Church theologians.
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Jake Thomas
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09:41 PM on 10/22/2011
Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.By this all will know that you are My disciples.”
Christ loved everyone. He also said, "He That Is without sin, Cast The First Stone"
"Real Christians" do not hate. The only real abomination in this world is the rampant hatred that exists.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo .
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01:03 PM on 10/23/2011
Unfortunately many Christians have developed an elaborate denial system whereby they have made themselves believe they are showing their love for gays by insisting that they change or remain celibate. The "love the sinner, hate the sin" talking point allows them to shield themselves from their own hatefulness and bigotry. Christianity has a long sordid tradition of brutality in the name of "love". The Inquisitors showed their Christian love by torturing heretics in this life so they wouldn't have to suffer in the next. Good Christian missionaries showed their love to native Americans by attempting to strip them of their religious traditions and languages.
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Jake Thomas
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02:34 PM on 10/23/2011
"love the sinner, hate the sin" I have heard that a lot too, an oxymoron if you ask me.
I search and search and have found it never came out of the mouth of Christ.
The message Christ spread was and is to this day revolutionary. He was the penultimate Humanist.
If Christians embraced the word of love there would be not hate, there
When I was a teen, many moons ago, I listened to my Pastor speech of the "scourge of homosexuality" and how they would burn in hell.
I hate a meeting with him that very day and renounced my faith in a Church built by men not the hand of God.
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StevenM
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06:04 AM on 10/26/2011
The phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" is often attributed to Gandhi. While this platitude is often criticized, I tend to like it (but maybe now with reservations). It all depends on how one "hates the sin." After all, sometimes we find ourselves in a situation where we need to treat a person with respect, but this does not mean that we have to condone everything this person does. But all too often, "hating the sin" is simply thinly veiled hating the sinner. And all too often Christians mistakenly think that they need to go around telling people that they are "sinners," as if that was the secret to making friends.
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Jake Thomas
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12:01 PM on 10/26/2011
Well articulated Steve.
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DianaLynn1967
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12:36 PM on 11/08/2011
"But all too often, 'hating the sin' is simply thinly veiled hating the sinner. And all too often Christians mistakenly think that they need to go around telling people that they are 'sinners,' as if that was the secret to making friends.”
Ain't it the truth!
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detroitblkmale30
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09:26 AM on 10/25/2011
I agree real Christians do not hate. They love. I love everyone. I just dont support sin. Jesus demonstrated precisely how to love the sinner not the sin with the woman caught in adultery, with zacchaeus the tax collector, with Mary Magdelene with many others. If anyone suggests this approach is un-christian then perhaps they need to reassess what a Christian really is.
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upndacity
leave my mirco-bio out of this .
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11:29 PM on 10/25/2011
The only sin you need to worry about it your own.
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wonderYrednow
¿Y read backwards? .
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01:44 AM on 10/26/2011
I think dbm30 should worry about mine, it would keep him really busy and I could entertain all my friends with the little fool scurrying around in my wake.....
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detroitblkmale30
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08:12 AM on 10/26/2011
That's not what the BIble says. Thanks anyway.
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detroitblkmale30
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10:23 AM on 10/28/2011
Saying something is a sin is far from being the same thing as hating. If you are going to quote Jesus then perhaps you should quote his support for OT law which includes Lev. 20:13
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10:58 AM on 10/28/2011
My point being is that many of our Churches do use the bible to serve the political will of their congregations and forget the central message of love.
The biggest transgression or sin a Christian can make is to turn his or her back on the the word of Christ and that is to "love on another".
The hate generated by those who accept a literal interpretation of the bible is sinful.
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detroitblkmale30
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11:03 AM on 10/28/2011
Saying something is a sin is far from hate. You seem to miss the point that people aren taking their agendas and writing scripture they are taking scripture to inform their positions. Love without spiritual accountability is not what Jesus called for.
No the biggest transgression is those who put themselves in the place of God by using his scriptures "love" as a smokescreen to revise the scriptures as they see fit for their own desires.
The Bible warns against doing just this.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding Prov. 3:5
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 2 time 4:3
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Jake Thomas
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12:30 PM on 10/28/2011
Christ made no mention of the homosexuality in his Testament. Not once. Christ spoke of love. Humanity speaks of hate. I am not a biblical scholar, I pick and choose like you seem too.
I trust in the Lord by loving all my brothers and sisters, regardless of sexual orientation.
Love is the central theme of the bible and sadly the most misunderstood.
I think you are off track.
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detroitblkmale30
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12:50 PM on 10/28/2011
You are right he made no mention of it. No supporting statements of it. Given that the law already prohibited same sex acts the onus would be on Jesus to revise it, as he did divorce, stoning, forgiveness etc etc. Yet as you have stated "not once" Jesus did say in the gospels that he supported OT law which included such prohibitions. If he supportes homosexuality why didnt he say so? An omnisicient God knew then that we'd be having this conversation now. No I dont pick and choose that is the difference between us, I take the Bible in its entirety and proper theological context. You are applying secular humanist reasoning through the lense of "love" to the text. We do agree that love is misunderstood when it comes to the BIble. It does not mean that anything is permissible even when it contradicts the scriptures simply as long as love is involved. Using that notion you could justify almost every sin in the Bible including adultery, theft, murder, lying, incest etc etc etc.That notion is what is off track.
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layla1
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09:31 PM on 10/22/2011
I listened to the video by Bishop Robinson, thank you Bishop, I really needed to hear those words of encouragement tonight. Amen
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04:26 PM on 10/22/2011
Hmm. Angry, self-righteous Christians on the right saying god wants one thing. Angry, self-righteous Christians on the left using the same book and creeds to say god wants another.
Yeah, I'm still good without god.
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LintLass
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06:13 PM on 10/22/2011
See, you nearly touched on the Christians' most dreaded phrase: 'I Don't Know.' If they don't know, maybe they should stop oppressing and defaming LGBT people till further notice from 'on high?' :)
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aviandonn
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04:05 PM on 10/22/2011
The bible is just a giant verbal Rorschach. Everyone sees what they need to see, which is why it continues to still be so popular. It provides whatever support a person needs to defend their personal biases, beliefs and prejudices. It makes every reader feel special and validated in the eyes of god.
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Salty too
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04:51 PM on 10/22/2011
No if it is read as it is suppossed to be read. " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashaqmed, rightly dividing the word of truth".
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05:12 PM on 10/22/2011
And who gets to decide if you are rightly dividing the word of truth? You fail to see that you have become the problem, your interpretation of the Bible is merely a mirror reflection of your own personal beliefs.
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StevenM
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04:56 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "The bible is just a giant verbal Rorschach."
There is a lot of truth in that. If one is for slavery, the Bible is for slavery. If one is against slavery, the Bible is against slavery. And in my experience, this problem exists on the left, as much as on the right. The left often interpret Jesus as a liberal, just as the right interpret Jesus as a conservative.
Without breaking my arm patting myself on the back, instead of reinterpreting the Bible to always agree with me, I simply claim that the Bible is wrong on those issues. In my opinion, it is a more honest approach.
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StevenM
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01:45 PM on 10/22/2011
In the major social movements in the last two centuries, including Abolition of Slavery, Woman’s Suffrage, Civil Rights, Woman’s Equal Rights, and Gay Marriage, there have been conservative Christians fighting against progress as well as liberal Christians fighting for progress. The second largest Christian group in the US (after the Roman Church), the Southern Baptist Convention [SBC], became a separate denomination in 1845 following a regional split with northern Baptists over the issues of slavery. The SBC supported slavery, claiming that the Bible justified slavery; then they supported Jim Crow laws and segregation; they fought against federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights. In the 1940s, most conservative Christians were Democrats, but as the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, many conservative Christians switched parties from the Democrats to the Republicans, thus making the Republican Party the party of conservative Christians, a direct result of their thinly veiled racism. Today most mainline Protestant Churches are ordaining those in same-sex relationships, and claim that homosexuality is not a sin. The conservative Churches continue to fight against progress and equal rights; and while their influence is slowly diminishing, and although they no longer have the stranglehold on American society and the US political system which they once had, they are still a powerful voting bloc today, largely motivated by hatred and bigotry.
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Stand Up for your Belief
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01:41 PM on 10/22/2011
Are they reading the same Bible that I'm reading?!?!? In the one I have, God clearly finds homosexuality and abomination unto him and a SIN.
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StevenM
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02:47 PM on 10/22/2011
Do you follow every commandment in the Bible? Conservative Christians have a double standard. They are willing to condemn those who don't follow scripture, while they themselves do not follow all the commandments in scripture.
Peter writes: "[Wives] Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing" (1 Peter 3:3 NRSV). Walk into any conservative Church, how many married women are wearing gold ornaments on their left hand? How many are wearing fine clothing? But of course, they can rationalize away the need to follow this commandment. Or what about: “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials” (Leviticus 19:19 NRSV).
Are you reading the same Bible that I'm reading????
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bcbcol09
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03:41 PM on 10/22/2011
We have to be mindful that we ALL struggle with SOMETHING. It's fine to be open and honest with ourselves and others because truth sets you free, but we need to also uphold and help one another understand that we cannot allow ourselves to give into carnal desires or our weaknesses NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE! A sin is a sin is a sin!
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whatsupcastleman
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03:59 PM on 10/22/2011
Why do Levitical laws always show up in this debate ? A Christian in the New Covenant doesn't have to perform those old ceremonial, or civil laws that pertain to Israel.
A Christian is a lawbreaker at every point. (Romans 3 “ There is none righteous, no, not one;) However, that does not justify disobedience. A Christian seeks to align their will to what God's will is. It is positively expressed in scripture that men and women belong together. Even the illustration of Christ and His bride the church is understood within the marriage construct.
It is unnatural for two people to exchange sexual relations with each other when they do not have the natural faculties, given to them by God. The scripture calls these acts unnatural, and they stem from dishonorable passions. (Romans 1)
One can struggle with sin and remain a Christian. However, the Christian must recognize it as a sin, and fight against those sexual desires, praying that they can align themselves to God's will. It shouldn't be called obedience to God's revealed will.
It's insane to hang the Old Covenant in all of it's worship practices over the heads of New Covenant Christians. We don't do animal sacrifices in a temple. We are not under a theocracy. We don't need a levitical priesthood to perform sacrifices. We have Jesus Christ our High Priest. The bridegroom of the church. The church should learn to submit to her husband.
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StevenM
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04:32 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "It is unnatural for two people to exchange sexual relations with each other when they do not have the natural faculties, given to them by God. The scripture calls these acts unnatural, and they stem from dishonorable passions. (Romans 1)"
The Bible is wrong.
The Bible also claims that one should take a "stubborn and rebellious son" out to the edge of town and stone him (Deut 21:18-21). The Bible also claims that if a man rapes a virgin, he should be fined and forced to marry his rape victim (Deut 22:28-29). The Bible even legislated how to sell one's daughter as a sex-slave (Exodus 21:7-11). The Bible claims that if someone steals and is unable to pay restitution, that thief should be sold into slavery (Exodus 22:3). The Bible teaches that if a wife, defending her husband, accidentally touches the attacker's genitals, she should have her hand cut off (Deut 25:11). The Bible also condones ethnic cleansing and genocide (Joshua).
And in the New Testament, Peter writes: "[Wives] Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing" (1 Peter 3:3 NRSV). Walk into any conservative Church, how many married women are wearing gold ornaments on their left hand? How many are wearing fine clothing?
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LintLass
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06:34 PM on 10/22/2011
So, you're saying that a certain kind of gay sex in a list of those same ritual 'sins/abominations' actually belonged in another category... Cause you don't like gay people?
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Salty too
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04:53 PM on 10/22/2011
Firswt get a real bible and secoundly learn to "rightly divide the word of truth" as instucted.
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StevenM
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05:04 PM on 10/22/2011
Actually, I read the New Testament in Greek. Is that good enough for you?
Tell me, how should one rightly divide the following?: ?? ?st? ??? ? ????e? ?µp????? t????? ?a? pe????se?? ???s??? ? ??d?se?? ?µat??? ??sµ??
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Salty too
God bless America .
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05:23 PM on 10/22/2011
So what? Which dialect? There was more than sixty. Just because you read the Greek doesn't mean you know or understand what it is saying. Just the fact you use a perverted text shows me just how little you know. BTW anyone can google a text and make claimes. You obviously don't know the most basic rule when reading the bible, how to rightly divide it. Different books were written to differant people for differant times. Thats something any bible student learns on day one.
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StevenM
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06:36 PM on 10/22/2011
Actually I read Greek from Homer to Medieval Byzantine Greek, including reading the Greek New Testament weekly with my pastor for over 20 years. My major in college was Classical Languages, where I learned Greek, Hebrew and Latin. There really isn't a great difference between the dialects. For example, there is a greater difference between Homer and Plato than there is between Xenophon and the Greek New Testament.
All you can do is slander those who disagree with you because you lack any arguments of merit to substantiate your point.
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Salty too
God bless America .
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09:30 PM on 10/22/2011
StevenM, All those years and never learned a simple thing like rightly dividing the truth?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:17 PM on 10/22/2011
WELL I DONT KNOW MY gREEK, HEBREW OR aRABIC BUT "IT IS ABOMINATION!" IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.
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StevenM
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10:38 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: ""IT IS ABOMINATION!" IS CRYSTAL CLEAR."
The Bible says that eating deer meat or pork is an abomination. Is that what you mean?
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:46 PM on 10/22/2011
No Steve. The Holy Ghost told Peter he could get his grub on and eat anything as long as it wasnt sacrificed to idols! Jesus Himself said the no sexually immoral person will ever even see the kingdom of God let alone enter into it!
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StevenM
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10:49 PM on 10/22/2011
Re: "The Holy Ghost told Peter ... "
That he didn't have to follow the commandments in the Bible!
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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11:08 PM on 10/22/2011
Peter had A VISION...aLL kinds of beast that were formerly forbidden Jews were laid out before him and the spirit told him to eat... It is not what goes into a man that defiles him but rather what comes out!
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StevenM
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07:13 AM on 10/23/2011
Re: "Peter had A VISION..."
And what was the result of this vision? Peter decided that God didn't want us to follow all the commandments in the Bible! Specifically, one didn't need to follow the kosher commandments in the Bible.
This is an important precedent! Paul also concluded that males no longer needed to be physically circumcised. In other words, Paul too concluded that we didn't need to follow all the commandments in the Bible.
Just as eating non-kosher is not a sin, just as a man not being circumcised is not a sin, so too homosexuality is not a sin! The Holy Spirit has revealed to the mainline Churches, as the body of Christ, that homosexuality is not a sin.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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01:49 PM on 10/23/2011
Stetve the Holy Ghost has done no such a thing. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. All sexual immorality is sin. Jesus said that he hated the practices of the Nicolaitanes and that He would slay them with His His words unless they repent.
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StevenM
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07:57 PM on 10/23/2011
Re: "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve."
Did you think that one up all by yourself? Or did you copy it?
Actually, God made us all, Adam, Eve, Susan, and Steve. What is important is how we live our lives, not whom we condemn. The two great commandments are to love God and to love others. You have distorted the Christian message to be one of hatred and condemnation, instead of inclusivity, love, and compassion for others.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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08:37 PM on 10/23/2011
God made us male and fremale perfectly formed to mate with the opposite sex. A hom condemn himself by not OBEYING. Jesus say if you love me then do as Isay. He say repent or perish! What is so hard about that for you to understand? It aint got nothing to do wit me. God made the rules not Jaggy!
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detroitblkmale30
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09:32 AM on 10/25/2011
Well said. While Paul through his vision, provided a revision of dietary things and circumcision. He did no such thing for same sex acts. PEople like Steven take that and using moral relativism say "well if we dont have to pay attention to THOSE laws, then perhaps we dont have to pay attention to THESE laws. This of course would never be supported in any other methodical context. In law you must have a precedent. You cant say well because the court determined that marriage is legal then polygamy must be legal too. Two different things. There is no theological predcent in the Bible that reverses what the Bible says on same sex acts. Those who support it either have to undergo extreme mental gymnastics or go with a vague "its all about love" approach. Neither are sufficient.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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07:20 PM on 10/25/2011
Jesus say if we love Him then we will obey!
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Bob Wood
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12:46 PM on 10/26/2011
Steven...I love it when someone knows what their talking about...as opposed to mouthing dogma. F & F ( I'll have to take your word on the Greek though...). It's useful to recognize myth and superstition...as myth and superstion. Someone has said that you can't reason someone out of something...they were never reasoned into in the first place. I don't think that Salty Too was ever reasoned into his position. Good luck...(sigh)
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:25 PM on 10/22/2011
Steve, Peter is not forbidding women to braid their hair or wear fine raiment. He is admonishing them to seek the real beauty that lies within and adorn themselves with the modesty of a pure heart.
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StevenM
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10:39 PM on 10/22/2011
You are presenting a typical conservative rationalization as to why they don't have to obey a clear and unambiguous commandment. What part of "do not" do you not understand? In fact, this commandment doesn't appear just once, but it is also found in 1 Timothy 2:9: "women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes." If you don't wish to follow these clear and unambiguous commandments, at least be honest about it. But 1 Peter 3:3 and 1 Timothy 2:9 clearly prohibit married women from wearing gold, braided hair, and fine clothes.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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10:59 PM on 10/22/2011
I believe a Christian woman should be modest in all things, However I think Paul was using those things as example of frivolous things that are not to be favored over a pure and modest heart. Paul lacked the authority to specifically dictate what another mans wife could wear!
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HGfromOmaha
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11:06 PM on 10/22/2011
So suppose what you "believe" is wrong?
Pure and modest? Hmmmm.....that pretty much eliminates most of the people who use the label "Christian".
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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11:23 PM on 10/22/2011
I aint wrong Omaha.My wife can go about the house butt naked and it would be okay with me. In public she is always GQ and we black so braids is second nature. I have never been offended by what she wear and me and Jesus be buddies so---
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HGfromOmaha
A hungry, free man not a well-fed slave .
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11:28 PM on 10/22/2011
As I said in another post, you have nothing but your "belief". You have no evidence. Of course nobody can argue "faith". It's the old fall-back.
But the bottom line is this. Only the dead know if there is a God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, Satan, Angels, etc. They're the only ones that know and they're not telling.
Anything else? Your faith & belief is all you have. No proof. You can have your beliefs. That's personal. Nobody can begrudge you that. Just don't use YOUR belief to tear down someone elses belief. You wouldn't like it if they did it to you.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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12:51 AM on 10/23/2011
Omaha my God is God. All others are pretenders to the throne. There is nothing you can say or do to tear down God. I have seen hell. I know it is real. I have seen and been healed by the touch of an angel. I have seen God high and lifted up on His throne. You can play patty cake ifn you want to. However dont be trying to talk to me if you qwine to mix light wit darkness. The sexually immoral are sinning and need to repent. They do not inspire one to righteousness. They spose to lay down their burden not tote it around like a talisman.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:47 PM on 10/23/2011
Omaha the monitors removed your post but I will respond. First off i be talking likes I do cause it irks uppity peoples and I likes the rhythm. Yall always be trying to correct my speech or suggest I take an English course. Brotha I knows what I be saying!
Noah preached for 500 years: " It's gwine to rain folks. " It had never rained before. They thought he was crazy too. But guess what? They was banging on his door for long when the flood waters came!
Most people with near death expierences claim they go to heaven. I went to the other place. Trust me. Nobody want to be there. Technically I didnt actually enter hell. I skirted the borders but the sights and sounds and smells along the way were more than enough to haunt my being.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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02:47 PM on 10/23/2011
I had been choking with an asthma attack and suddenly I found myself being pushed through a tunnel at an unbelievably fast speed. i was deposited on the darkened shore of a very eerie place. The darkness was so black and thick you you feel and taste it. The taste was like charcoal and the air was suffocating and filled with screams and moaning. I was shoved into a boat and the boatman rowed me to the opposite shores of a murky lake. i was a teenager an had done nothing I thought sufficient to land me in that place. I was offended at the thought of being labeled a sinner. Didnt drink. Didnt smoke. I wasnt in a gang. Wasnt no bodies baby daddy. Didnt sass my momma. Didnt play that boogy woogy. Went to church twice every Sunday! Got straight A's in class. Why would God be mad at me? Yet there I was. I was perplexed. I couldnt really see anything but I could feel the presence of someone approaching me so I screamed:" Let me out of here. Somebody made a mistake! Help Lord!" Immediately I was in my own room safe and sound. Next day I was the first one in the line to be saved!
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StevenM
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03:53 AM on 10/23/2011
Re: "Paul lacked the authority to specifically dictate what another mans wife could wear!"
You're funny.
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HGfromOmaha
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07:01 PM on 10/23/2011
jaggeththewires...this thread is all jacked up but it is what it is. I'll respond here. Hope you see this.
You have a right to believe what you believe. I don't think anybody will begrudge you that. The problem is when folks try to convince others that their way is right.
No matter what you say, how passionate you are about your beliefs and such, the fact remains that what you wrote about is a personal incident that only you will know whether or not it's fabricated or not. Only you know. The human body does all sorts of things when in a crisis mode. Having an asthma attack is a crisis mode.
Now, if were sitting at your desk at work, or in school, and a hole in the sky appeared and you saw the things you saw, and others saw it as well, then you'd have grounds to stand on. But you already had an understanding of "Heaven and Hell". You had already been in church. So your subconscious took over. Your brain starving for oxygen. But, once again, it's your experience. I can't knock it. Believe what you will.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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09:06 PM on 10/23/2011
Okay Omaha, How about this one. I was in my twenties and running late for work. i was rushing across a bridge. There was construction going on and there was only one very narrow path to walk on to get across the bridge. There was this huge fellow in front of me taking up all the room in my path. he was wearing a light blue raincoat and had blonde fuzzy hair. He shoulders were extremely wide like he was on steroids. In my rush I bumped into him. We paused and he said he was glad we ran into each other. he had a folder in his hand and said his boss wanted me to have lunch with . he said his bossed helped out people who were struggling . I was about to purchase my first home and was a little short on cash. i didnt trust him. I rushed passed smh. I took two steps and froze. I had bumped into a blonde man in a blue coat. however, i had been conversating with a female who was brunette and wearing a pink coat. I turned around and he/she was gone. There was no where this person coulda went unless they jumped the bridge. That evening at the closing table I found out my required down-payment had been cut in half!
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HGfromOmaha
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07:03 PM on 10/23/2011
My point remains and I there is no man that can convince me otherwise.
Only the dead know. Everything else is a guess at best.
Do what you feel you have to to achieve your own peace. Just don't try to put your beliefs on others. You wouldn't like it if others tried to do it to you.
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jaggeththewires
God said what? .
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08:29 PM on 10/23/2011
Omaha I serve the one an only true and living God why would I care what any body has to say? It appears you the one can be swayed by the wind. I, know Him in whom I believe.
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HGfromOmaha
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09:11 PM on 10/23/2011
Oh please don't get it twisted. I don't blow with the wind or am swayed easily. I am unequivocally convinced that 99.999%m of the people who consider themselves to be so-called Christians are nothing more than hypocrites who are caught up in their own self-righteousness. You know....the kind of people that Jesus preached against and condemned.
Of course you don't care what anyone else says! You're too caught up in your own spiritual wonderfulness and self-righteousness!
Unless you can prove otherwise, the indisputable fact remains; only the dead know.
And guess what? You can't prove otherwise!
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