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The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
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Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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558 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
Newer Comments →
Dblaron42 says:
October 16, 2015 at 12:50 pm
Outstanding work as always Lloyd. Much thanks to the agents on the inside of this heinous borginization.
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Donald duck says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:00 pm
I’m still in but I would love to use this to get kicked off from having to go from door to door. I’m inactive, but would love to be excused… Also, what’s a masculine hair style…short? Who decides what’s masculine and what isn’t? Getting more nit picky by the day…
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Chiafade says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:08 pm
That’s the thing the decision as to whats a masculine hairstyle or even what counts as a what they call “the metro sexual look” is COMPLETELY arbitrary. Each congregation will have their own interpretation of how that can be applied locally.
If that’s not behavior control I don’t know what is.
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Caseyoc says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:30 pm
I’m thoroughly confused at what the metrosexual style even is. I mean, 2004 much, GB? How tight is too tight? What *exactly* is too masculine or too feminine? There’s just too much left open to interpretation, and you’re going to get those totalitarian places where a woman with a haircut above her shoulders is going to be counseled. It’s bonkers.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:37 pm
@Donald duck .. SHORT BACK & SIDES ???
I THINK TONY MORRIS Should COUNSEL Our NOW REIGNING KING…, Mr CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL About BEARDS??!
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:05 am
In ancient times many cultures obligated the slave class to have short cropped hair in order to show the difference between free folk and slave. It’s a domination move, the equivalent of jumping on your back biting your neck while they give it to you. They get away with it because most, out of sheer ignorance of scripture will not ignore their amendments to the bible.
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ProphetMoeshe says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:08 pm
I would be furious, except I don’t care, but what door-to-door ministry? All they have to do now is stand on the street and look pretty beside a fold-up display of literature outside the JW.org boutique store. Reminds me of way back when you would walk through an airport and Hare Krishna types would stand there with flowers.
This mandate is still wide open for interpretation–metrosexual style? Is that including the bodybuilder who has a tailored fit? or the svelte lad wearing a slim fit?
Portly, overweight types only, please; and skinny guys hide that physique under a suit that swallows you up and makes you look like a toothpick in a sea of wool, or cheap polyester blend.
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Chiafade says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:15 pm
“Portly overweight guys only please” that’s hilarious. I know what you mean. I’m surprised they haven’t sanctioned that as well. I can’t remember how many times a well fed “brother” would go on stage with his suit buttons barely holding on. His tie draped over his belly like a slobbery dog tongue. Pretty unsightly, but they wouldn’t want to be unreasonable now would they?
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ProphetMoeshe says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:06 pm
Gastrosexuality…
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:23 pm
@Chiafade…. We had one REALLY OVERWEIGHT Sunday Public Speaker a year ago DROP DEAD on The PLATFORM halfway through his talk from a Heart Attack!!!
HALF the GOVERNING BODY( Geoffrey Jackson, Mark Sanderson, Gerrit Losch,Tony Morris & Sam Herd) are Overweight so there will be NO SANCTIONS on FAT Brothers,Even though there is more Scriptural Backing for Sanctions like GREEDY PEOPLE is mentioned alongside FORNICATORS & ADULTERERS who will Not Inherit Gods Kingdom at 1Corinthians 6v9,10
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JB Reezner says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:14 pm
Thanks Lloyd, and thanks to the ones you mentioned who shared this info with you.
I think the leaders of this cult will live to regret this tack. The young ones in the congregation are already the least likely ones to remain in the Org. This is so blatantly bizarre and overly restrictive, it will surely result in an even faster decline in the number of young adherents.
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Holy Connoli says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:13 am
JB Reenzer. You are right. The young ones will leave and are leaving therefore not bringing in young replacements in any organization will make it collapse. What does the WT offer young folks these days? NOTHING at all. The only thing they offer is
pioneering or bethel and bethel is not recruiting they are laying off. Pioneering is boring and with inquisitive young minds who can find out everything about the WT it is a dead end street plus you will be alone much of the time. They do not want young ones to go to college, do not have a GF or BF, no dancing, only controlled music, lousy jobs, no social life, only WT approved friends etc. They offer nothing for young ones or anyone for that matter.
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JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:09 pm
You’re so right, Holy Connoli. And with young ones possibly appearing to be a bit of a lost cause for the Org, it’s starting to look like they will be targeting the truly mentally weak (who usually have at least a monthly assistance check coming in) with such offerings as their simplified version of the Bible Teach book for people “who need to have the truth presented in a simpler manner”.
The more I see the true evil of this cult, the more I wish it would’ve just been a proper cult with aliens flying in on a mother ship to bring us back to our home planet when all the stars line up just right.
I’d rather have been duped by something purely insane, rather than something that is revealing itself to be so grotesquely evil. If you can’t tell, I’m still dealing with some fairly profound embarrassment over all of it.
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Chiafade says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:04 am
Yep focus is on foreign language right now. Many who are coming from third world countries are moving to more affluent countries. Unfortunately for these ones they have never come in contact with the witnesses and have never had easy access to the Internet. Have you ever seen the pictures of the witnesses preaching in the Amazon? How many converts are coming from there? Not many, and when they do convert they have no money to give the organization. Same with those who immigrate. Yet this is the focus so that they can continue to feign growth.
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JB Reezner says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm
At this point, I don’t think I’d be surprised if we found out their growth was literally feigned to some extent. Get a few of the top-level brothers who handle compiling the numbers to get on board with ‘cooking the books’ a little bit for the “encouragement” of the bros and sis’s, maybe. Okay, that’s too much of a conspiracy theory. I just hate this cult, and have come to doubt that there is anything too wicked for them to rationalize in their own deluded minds.
John freeman says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:18 pm
It gets more stupid by the day .what next they will be telling us what color cars to drive what to eat .
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:12 pm
@John freeman…. Don’t you mean …. WHAT COLOUR CADILLACS????
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Scrubmaster says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:51 pm
@John, you say that about what color cars to drive, I was in a congregation in the 90’s were the elders decided brothers could only wear pastel color shirts on the platform to give a talk. Along the lines of cars by the way, I know a young brother in the 90’s who brought a two door sports car, the elders gave him grief about it because it did not have 4 doors for field service.
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MK says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:06 am
JAJAJA ! Dans ma congrégation on disait que Alfa Romeo avait un logo de serpent avec une croix ! Donc voiture non chrétienne a évité! je me souvient ne pas avoir acheter une a cause de sa!
JAJAJA ! In my congregation was said that Alfa Romeo was a snake logo with a cross! So unchristian car avoided ! I do not recall having a buy because of her !
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:27 am
That would depend on what stock their gambling on at the time.
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JBob says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:18 pm
If my theory is correct, this would be another indication of how much the rift between progressive (liberal), moderate and arch-conservative JW’s at HQ has grown. In this one strike, it seems to confirm that conservatives are taking charge once more–probably driving the organization over a cliff as they become more isolationistic and bizarre, out-of-touch with current events.
I also venture to state that those being laid off and not recycled at HQ are most likely those not kowtowing to the conservative regime with figure head Tony, but a host of entrenched agents in various “helper” departments. This is reminding of the witch hunt of the 1980’s where slowing growth was blamed on those who dared to have a liberal or progressive viewpoint.
So, chilluns, if you intend to remain with Watchtower, hunker down, keep your opinions muted and dress as blandly as you can. Otherwise, view this as your ticket of escape.
Return?? to this filthy, festering latrine?
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Michael Austin says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:22 pm
The total control over everything about a person just keeps getting worse. I am really angry after reading this. The “metrosexual” look is nothing more than wearing modern, nicely fit clothes that look really nice on a person. When I was young and single back in the 80’s I paid a lot of money and attention to what I wore. It couldn’t be described as gender bending by any means and I was still looked down on. I spent most of my life hiding my homosexuality in this organization and it sickens me the way they keep destroying everything about a person that makes them who they are. I can’t help it, I hate them with a vengeance.
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Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Hence the problem with witnessing or field service. Someone has to represent this corporation, so they must wear what the Watchtower says.
If they were in a normal mainstream Christian religion, who do not go out in door to door work, there would be no need for this chastisement. Jesus gathered people to his side who would listen to him. He did not judge them for who they were. In case many of you have never set foot in a church, you will find a far different atmosphere as people wear what ever they feel is suitable, whether it be done up to the hilt with fine clothes or just jeans and t-shirts with thongs.
This is where the Watchtower have got it wrong. Jesus said “Do not judge others, lest you be judged” in the sermon on the Mount. Forget this door to door witnessing. It just produces judgmental, hard hearted, incompassionate people who spend more time looking at the splinter in their brother’s eye and not seeing the log in their own.
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Charlie says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:09 pm
Absolutely I was just admonished by my aunt that my haircut was to much like those dykes. She said quote how can we go preach when we look no better then the householder or their children who are living that lifestyle. As if this religion suddenly made us saints. She told me some people in her hall had asked about me if I was “that way” and she was concerned. I can bet the ones that asked are just like her miserable and husbandless. They don’t have a life so they sit and judge everybody instead of worrying about there own.
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wifibandit says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Can someone email me the full S-337a-16-E ?
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:08 pm
@wifi bandit … I think it’s S338 -16s-hit???
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ThePentagonExperience says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:25 pm
You sank my battleship!!
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:42 pm
@The PentagonExperience… I think TONY the DESTROYER sank it???
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wifibandit says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:04 pm
Sorry, I don’t understand. I would like a copy of this out line, in any language. In the picture, it looks like the file is named S-337a-16
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:50 am
@wi-fi bandit .. Parlez Vous Francais??
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wifibandit says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:37 am
Oui, un peu.
wifibandit1 @ gmail
Lilas says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Even-though I left the cult 13 years ago I still like to know what is going on with the nitwits. I am happy you are always so well informed. This cannot get any better. When will they start to enforce fat people to loose weight. That would be a good one.
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James Wittinger says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm
It’s fun to just sit back and watch the cock fight. I don’t have to promote or contribute to the fight. Just watch it.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@James.., Nice Comment.., But WHAT COCK are you Talking about??? .,, TONY or STEVEY??
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John Baptist says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Oh boy Lloyd you must be in your glory on this one. Lol
Just remember les we forgot as the Yourh book tells us “master nation may lead to homosexuality”
Statistically speaking 98 percent of all males do this at least once in their lives. So looks like Tony has got his hands full with those single Bethelites. Lol
One of the traits of a CULT is to have you conform to THEIR Recommended dress code.
Good luck on that one Tony tight pants.
Again as usual as they say Spot on with your article. Thank you.
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James Wittinger says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Let’s brew a new beer and call it Cult 45.
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will says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Wow!!! Honestly, tighter fitting clothing fits better on certain people because of certain body shapes. Anyway, this Org is crazy. I personally know a male witness who got married. His new wife had two kids, so he married into a family. Less than a year later, he left. That being said….. he wasn’t reproved, kicked out or anything. After all that, he was still allowed to go out on service. I thought their was a scripture about not providing for your family and how that’s worse than a person without faith (he provided no financial support or anything, so she had to move in with her mother for a couple of years), yet tight pants can get you banned from field service. Message to JWs- Abandon family OK, but tights pants are demonic. Crazy!!!
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Kamael Xevious says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:10 pm
I note with an interest a complete lack of objective guidelines that can be used to judge whether someone is, in fact, dressing as a “metrosexual” or a “tom-boy,” and absolutely even less guidance for determining whether someone’s bearing, mannerisms or form of speech qualifies one. Out of such vagaries, witch hunts are born.
And just how the hell are you supposed to “adorn the inner person” when you can’t go to college to do so? Honestly, they’re really starting to look like the WBTS is circling the drain.
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tiger123 says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:13 pm
One of my former Elder associates (who is still an elder) Wore tight pants and shirts. He was not metrosexual, just fat and to broke to buy more polyester. He plugged in the microphone for the stage before the memorial and when he bent over he treated everyone to 8 inches of his crack. I didnt care he wore tight pants or that his bottom buttons always were coming off his shirts. I just did not want the glutton to moon my minor children. The Bible makes no distinction between homosexualty and gluttony, God will kill you for both. Morris and bizarro GB are too busy staring at mens pants to notice the huge crowd of 400lb plus cows at every convention tbat take up the handicap seating.
Here is a tough truth, Morris isn’t gay, he is a delluded left over Nazi from the Third Reich. He is a piece of ****. Enough said.
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:41 pm
You sir, are hilarious. I nominate tiger123 to write an article for this website!
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ruthlee says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:17 pm
Here’s my vision of beauty….all brothers should attire themselves in the Scottish way full tradition.How manly is that and not a tight pant in sight OH glory for a windy day out on them trolly carts.Ha hahaha ruthlee
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JBob says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:22 pm
LOL!! you wicked lass!
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:03 pm
@ruthlee.. HAVE YOU SEEN MY HAGGIS???
Och I the MOOooo!!
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ruthlee says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Well i ain’t no metrosexual whatizzit? rl
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Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:20 pm
It’s amazing to see the present GB take an organization that has existed over 100 years and watch them run it into the ground within a decade. The whole situation of the Watchtower Society reminds me of the fall of the Third Reich. Just before it fell Hitler and the High Command got more nuts by the minute because they were so neurotic and desperate .
The Watchtower REEKS of desperation at regaining control at all costs and will do or say anything to get it. These really are “the last days ” for the Tower.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:00 pm
@Garrett…I Like Your Parallel. … HITLER Locked himself into a Bunker & KILLED Himself!! .., NOW TONY & STEVE & Co…., THERES AN IDEA!!…, NEW LIGHT ANYONE???!
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Ed says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:25 pm
I do think it will get to that. Maybe if this system continues like this the next say 5p years, many will start asking questions
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Michael Gates says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:26 pm
I will say this about Tony Morris. Like many popular church pastors who come out so strong and repeatedly against homosexual behavior and tendencies, they were struggling with these yearnings themselves. It was by constantly attacking this lifestyle that their inner conscience was crying out. They in time were found out or gave in and it all came crashing down. This of course was the rumor around Leo K in the 80s GB.
I think what we are seeing in the last couple years with the newer GB members is quite Interesting. For those longtime bethelites – those who’ve been there since the 70s 80s era – they are perhaps finding it challenging to swallow some of the thing the current GB are doing, saying.
Remember, these GB members are not “bethel men”. They did not “grow up” feeding at the table of the Kliens, Jaracz, Schroeders, Barr, Barry, Henschel, Sydlik et al, they were in the field as COs and DOs for years. They did and said what they wanted, and everyone in their circuits had no choice but to eat it.
In many cases some traveling men dislike HQ staff as the HQ staff often feel higher than traveling men. Sam Herd even called bethelites “Top of the Ladder”. So these GB may still resent bethelites. Hence, the recent “Reassignments”.
They don’t have the “Organizational Finesse” if you will, in a lot of their doings, and they seem somewhat rough around the edges and unprofessional. Even though Jaracz was quite harsh at times, I couldn’t imagine he or Sydlik saying some of the stuff coming out now.
Some of the old “Heavys” (Walls, Perla, Weaver, Malenfant, Woody, Wishchuck, Waters, Rains and more) are probably gnashing their teeth somewhat.
These GB members with their pinky rings and pocket squares seem really fecitous and very full of themselves. Like a TV evangelist. If they were full of them selves as traveling men, they must be about to explode as GB members.
Yes, in time we shall see even more things to make one raise their eyebrows, as the current GB are quite “unlettered” and can hardly explain the WTS doctrines that the 80s GB came up with. Even though it was false, it at least sounded “deep”. These guys can only talk about petty stuff like dress and grooming, fleshly things, much like gossip. There is no scholarly discourse.
Like a true Circuit man, their talks are now like a Local needs part or Giving attention to the needs of the circuit, because that is what they are best at.
They are truly not ready for “Prime Time” and ready to lead a large organization.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:55 pm
@Michael Gates .. You make many Very Good Points…. SAY COMPARE TONY MORRIS & STEPHEN LETTS Bible Knowledge to FRED FRANZ???..,Even though FREDDY was WRONG on his interpretations he sounded convincing at the Time he said it, BUT TONY??? Hmmmm!!…SAY NO MORE!!! … AMATEUR ??
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gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:38 pm
I appreciate most of the critics made on this site but is it really fair to critizize the organization stand on homosexuality? Any of us have the right to reject the Bible as a whole but anyone can decide to believe in it as the word of God. Wouldn’t that be a shame or hypocritical for someone with obvious homosexual demeanor to go door to door in preach that the Bible condenms homosexuality? Wouldn’t you be the first ones to criticize such behaviors? I think the stand against homosexuality is biblical eventhough some might think it’s homophobic!
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:45 pm
In theory, homosexuals and single heterosexuals should be treated exactly the same: No sex! Now they go beyond this and want to control what that person is! You should be allowed to look gay if that’s what you are. But not according these instructions… There is no way any homosexuals will ever be able to stay a witness with this approach and that is truly despicable.
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gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Anyway, why someone has to stay a christian if he/she cannot change his/her unbiblical behaviors? Nobody should be forced to stay a JW if he or she doesn’t want to follow the Bible principles or laws! I am not saying that everything jw say is biblical but at least their general stand on homosexuallity is! Someone who want to behave and act as an homosexual should feel free to leave any christian group that doesn’t accept homosexuallity.
Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:06 pm
I remember all the articles in the magazines on obesity and self control and titles such as ” is your lifestyle killing you? ” the witnesses didn’t tell half the congregation which were overweight or obese that they couldn’t take the magazines to the door…
But I’m sure it did look hypocritical as hell for a fat brother to magazines on self control to the door of a thin fit person.
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gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:24 pm
Garrett, where does the Bible talk against obesity? Being obese doesn’t mean that someone must have an overeating problem! The Bible warns us against gluttony! It always a good thing to have healthy habits and stay in shape as much possible! I know people that are kinda “fat” but do not not eat alot!
Garrett says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:03 pm
Gardy
That’s true. Obesity isn’t mentioned but moderation and self control is. Unless someone has a medical condition like hypo thyroidism, fat = more calories coming in than going out.
We are all reponsable for what we drink and put in our mouths and how much.
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
I strongly disagree because what is being recommended is punishing someone for their appearance and demeanor without proof that they are or are not homosexual or lesbian. It also sends a message that this “religious organization” is closed and is NOT open and inviting and welcoming to all sorts of people. It is akin to including a mandate that any Latino or Blacks in a congregation would be barred from field service if they have hip-hop hairstyles or wear urban styles. Also, we have to look at the field service mandate–no tick-tocky, no life-eternal, so any young person who may have a natural effeminate nature is ostracized and pushed toward suicide. And, being effeminate is not a tell-tale of being gay. Some rough rodeo riders, battlefield vets, and football players (rugby and soccer too) are gay. Some fashionable lipstick-wearing ladies are lesbian. Behavior and demeanor are no guarantee of sexuality or trend toward sexuality.
Do they bar individuals who speak with a southern accent from field service because they may be perceived as “racist”?
What role do they perceive for “reformed” gays and lesbians–will they have a rehab clinic to train men how to seat with their legs spread far apart and speak in a deep register? Will that make the love of phallus go away?
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:25 pm
Gardy, the bible is clear about homosexuality. It is also clear about fornication. It is not the actual sexual act that is condemned. Otherwise, you are essentially saying that someone who is gay is not loved by God even if he remains a virgin his entire life… None sense!
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:30 pm
* it is the actual sexual act… please remove the “not” from the above post. :)
gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:59 pm
I am against any stigmatizations or judging people on their appearance! I am only saying that we should be objective in our statements against a given or prospective organisational policy. The same way the organization can counsel its members on behaviors that make someone stumbles or mistakenly takes a friend for a fornicator, drug dealer, prostitute etc … I think it is understandable if they give advice on behaviors and attitudes that could make someone see a friend as a homosexual. Personally I think it is wrong for the same person who is practicing fornication or homosexuality to go door to door and preaching against these things. However, it would have been weird to accuse someone of homosexuality because that person has a male tone of voice! Nevertheless, if someone is acting willingly as an homosexual and wants to come public, what should a person stay in an organization or a christian group that is against it ? Nobody can force an organisation or a person homosexuality or any other non biblical behavior! Every body can show respect for a person sexual orientation (hetero or homo) but nobody can impose his/her orientation on an organization or a person!
Excelsior! says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:33 am
gardy,
It doesn’t just sound homophobic, it IS homophobic!
I would NEVER criticise a homosexual for preaching about their faith.
I completely and utterly reject the ridiculous prohibition on homosexuality in the bible.
Any god who gets angry and hurtful to people who are simply different in their affections and attractions is no god at all.
And before all the bible thumpers come to lynch me – can any of you prove that your god exists? Can you prove that the bible is this god’s inspired word?
I didn’t think so!
Grow up! There is nothing immoral or sinful in homosexuality.
Of course, any homosexual love making must be with people of the legal age, and be without compulsion.
I would prefer this god to help us with our problems, rather than single out individuals who do no harm to anyone!
The prohibition of homosexuality is one of the many reasons that I do not believe in God.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:58 pm
“I will say this about Tony Morris. Like many popular church pastors who come out so strong and repeatedly against homosexual behavior and tendencies, they were struggling with these yearnings themselves. ”
Amen! As Shakespeare said ” I sayith, the protester
Protesteth too much.” I think in trying to distance himself by trying to hammer on homosexuality, what he has shown to me is that he has an obsession with it. I’m guessing if he wasn’t a witness we would see him in the rainbow parade…..bashing anyone with baggy pants…
Reply
Gameisover says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:04 am
Jesus never spoke about homosexuality.
His friends were the derelicts of the day.
Some were prospitutes, others thieves, some must have been gay if the 10/20% still applied then. (Judging by history, Greek art and the like, maybe it was 50/50)
The Pharisees condemned him for that.
He spoke about loving one another and about not judging others.
In the Bethel here there are many gays.
I mean many. It is impossible to hide it.
Maybe with this new directive they will be banned from service. The only privilege that will remain will be working for free.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:19 am
JB Reenzer. You are right. The young ones will leave and are leaving therefore not bringing in young replacements in any organization will make it collapse. What does the WT offer young folks these days? NOTHING at all. The only thing they offer is
pioneering or bethel and bethel is not recruiting they are laying off. Pioneering is boring and with inquisitive young minds who can find out everything about the WT it is a dead end street plus you will be alone much of the time. They do not want young ones to go to college, do not have a GF or BF, no dancing, only controlled music, lousy jobs, no social life, only WT approved friends etc. They offer nothing for young ones or anyone for that matter.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:42 am
Any pastor that needs a TelePrompTer to teach is no pastor at all. You could always identify the false teachers in every congregation by their panicky adherence to notes and outlines. Might as well have called those “talks” what they were, readthru’s. and announce them like this
“Brother such, and such will now READ us his half ass notes on a subject he is evidently too unfamiliar with to ditch a script over. Please remain awake and keep your children still during this torturous babbling and if they make a peep, strike down upon them with great vengeance in either coat room or bathroom. Don’t forget to muffle their screams of pain and terror, oh and turn them phones off to.”
Leaves stage sucking gut in and sore from fat guy crack rash syndrome.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:40 pm
Some of the ” Old Timers” tell me that before the 1970’s and even after that in many congregations you had to wear a white shirt to give a talk, or go out in FS,or to carry the microphones or have a part in the assembly etc?
Does anybody rememebr that? I remeebr when iwas in my early 20’s I had the typical JW mustcahe and I began to grow the sides down below the corners of my lip and an elder told me that was not acceptable bc it looked worldly? ( fu Man CHu style ) Then i grew my side burns a little below the ear and he told me that it had to be no lower than the bottom of my ears? Wow, I wonder r if Jesus had sideburns or a beard or longish hair? I started to question their thinking at the WT and I said what does this have to do with Christian at all? Does the creator of the universe give a hoot if my mustache goes below my lp or the side burns below the ears. Do these guys have anything else to worry about or to do? Total nonsense.
Reply
Bearwoody says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Back in the 1980s, as a Ministerial Servant, a Circuit Overseer by the name of Orville Weldon counseled me in private that I needed to work on “deepening” my voice. The subtext was loud and clear: “I know you’re you’re a disgusting homosexual, and you need to hide it better.” What an a**hole. And I mean that in the negative sense.
Reply
Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:40 pm
Is there any other reasons for which someone would be announced at the kingdom hall as unfit for sharing in the ministry? I have been in “the truth” for 30+ years, I cannot think of anything that would cause someone the right to go door to door… not even pedophilia!
You like to molest children and yet, show repentance? Ah bless your heart, go forth and preach! You look like a fagot? You worthless piece of s**t… you stay home and wait, we’ll see if you’ll be destroyed with the rest of this degenerate world!
Reply
Tara says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Oh dear… we have a young brother in our hall who is very feminine. He is a great young man, kind and happy but everyone knows he is struggling with his sexuality. His voice and his gestures are very camp. He is going to suffer with this one. One the other side of the coin is his sister who is very butch and had a friendship with another sister which has turned heads at times…. their parents hotly deny it of course but it is visible to everyone.
Reply
Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Tara
Call the film crews. Such stuff is money making sitcoms here in the U.S.
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:13 am
Bad boy, bad boy, whatcha gonna do, watcha gonna do when they come for you…. ‘Gonna wear my ‘tight pants!’ Man! feel like a woman……
We also have a sister that likes to look like an over stuffed sausage…
Our CO visit is just around the corner… will this all be announced soon?
Reply
anonymous says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Here in the United States, guys who wear their shirts tucked into their pants are the ones who look “gay” now. Also if you look at the Caleb cartoons, Caleb’s father wears his shirt tucked into his pants and his pants are really tight, looking a lot like the picture of those two guys from Saturday night Live above.
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Paul says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:48 pm
I didn’t think there was anything called “the metrosexual style” (which I guess is why it’s “so-called,” right?). Before Tony’s bizarro rant I hadn’t heard the term “metrosexual” used in general population for at least ten years.
I did find an online guide for metrosexual style tips, though. It has a list of do’s and don’ts. This is one of the don’ts: “Don’t wear ill-fitting attire. There is nothing more unflattering than a too-tight anything.”
So not only is Tony inflicting his genophobic, homophobic obsession on stupid policy — he’s not even getting the definitions right.
Reply
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:27 pm
Straight outta Wiki–
Metrosexual is a portmanteau, derived from metropolitan and sexual, coined in 1994 describing a man (especially one living in an urban, post-industrial, capitalist culture) who is especially meticulous about his grooming and appearance, typically spending a significant amount of time and money on shopping as part of this.[1] The neologistic term is popularly thought to describe heterosexual men who adopt fashions and lifestyles stereotypically associated with homosexual men. While the term suggests that a metrosexual is heterosexual, it can be used to refer to anyone with any sexual orientation.
Herein lies another issue with the Watchtower and elders’ arbitrary standards on behavior and lifestyle. Metrosexual is a term coined by an author of a book to describe individuals who primarily are attentive to their grooming and style of dress [maybe buying top of the line suits and watches and pocket squares and pinky rings?] So, now we’re using the “worldly rules” to form standards, just like the arbitrary movie rating scale [viewing R-rated movies could get individuals d/f or privately rebuked], which is derived and granted by a commission of non-JW’s, and because a movie had one less “F” word, one JW is winked at, while another is impaled and launched on a petard?
Live a simplified life so you can pioneer, but if you run into financial difficulties (you didn’t calculate the cost), so it’s your fault.
At least GB 1.0 and 2.0 knew how to keep the money rolling in without overt begging in the streets like whores.
Reply
Holly Chu says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:28 pm
Yes, Paul, and he got the definition wrong for womens work out attire……he called our exercise tights “spanks”. What an uneducated buffoon.
Reply
Donald duck says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:09 am
I brought that up to my spouse and he said, “how do you know spanx doesn’t have work out wear”… Yeah this is what I’m dealing with… He apparently did some research and spanx has a small line of clothing for the gym… Go figure… I stopped there… :/
Reply
danman says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
What next? They already have the elders screening attendees at special conventions. God forbid anyone see someone in a wheelchair, overweight, or poorly dressed.
Notice how they want to exclude the MS from these juicy ruling from on high. It precisely this secretive trickle down policy of the GB, that gives the incentives for attaining elder. You get to sit on a judicial hearing, you get your special ultra secret handbook.. and all the sisters young and old have to grovel at your every edict.
Women need to wake up to this male dominated cult. I hope a good majority start wearing pant suits, and yoga tights, just to make these elders squirm.
Reply
Caltanzee says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:24 pm
All i can say is wow o wow!!..Just say this aint so, that these evil slave task masters are willing to go way beyond the things that are written to humiliate and comndem the members into coming under their complete contol in every way possible.It was Jesus who said at John 7: 24 stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgement…Paul also confirmed that God does not go by a persons outward appearance. Galatians 2:6..Not even to mention Joel 2:13… Even to sneak these deluded nonsense in behind the ministerial servants, shows how devious these self appointed pompus men has become..Jesus said come to me and I will give you rest..But the GB says: obey me or I’m bringing upon you misery.what a bunch of kooks!!! Thank God I saw the light and woke up from this delusion.
Reply
Darlene Alexander says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:33 pm
I’m betting that the only ones who are being “disturbed” by a sister’s clothing are the horny elders!
Reply
Caltanzee says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:33 pm
Yeah! Like the classic song..I’ve got you under my skin.ive got you deep in the heart of me, and though i try to resist you’re really a part of me.yeah! I’ve got you under my skin……so they are looking and yearing and lusting…so the only way to contain themselves is to contain the flock with a coverup….First tv jw.org.next move…jw tailoring…Black head scraves and long black gowns for sisters…Black coveralls for brothers and yamulks on the heads..lol.cult gear..cult wear.lol.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:53 am
That would make a great punk band The Horny Elders’ I play multiple instruments, who’s in?
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:52 pm
I’ll be there to tickle the ivories or shred on the axe– whichever is needed. Or we can both alternate instruments just to show off for our throngs of admirers, lol.
Yes, music comments are like catnip to me, but I think I handled this reply with a greatly reduced level of my usual insanity. I’m working on it, folks. Baby steps…
Reply
The Pope says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:41 pm
When I was still knee deep in this cult I was a mic runner and almost a ministerial servant. I enjoyed doing it. Got me off of my butt and gave me some distraction. Until the day when I bought these great looking suede wine colored shoes I thought went well with my suits. The head elder pulled me to the side and said I couldn’t run the mic because of my shoes. Too worldly. I gave those shoes away! Wish I still had them. But thankfully this was one of those epiphanies which later helped in my awakening. Thanks for all you do.
Reply
Ozzy Steve says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:10 am
Wine coloured shoes, you were obviously identifying yourself with the “Jezebel class”……was that one, there are just sooo many! As a young teenager I too was rewarded with the awesome privilege that is..The Roving Mic! Initially this amounted to a carrying a dodgy microphone tapped to a cheap plastic broom handle but as Jehovah reached out his powerful hand soon the cordless Mic was invented and adopted in our congregation. Sadly though, the corrupting influence of Satan was not far, for as Microphone technology advanced by Devine inspiration so did the demonic seamstresses plans for young brothers meeting attire! I found myself beguiled into wearing an Olive green Cordoray blazer pared with a dog tooth check brown/black pair of trousers! Eyes were rightly raised and my fitness to carry the sacred microphone questioned. After much heartfelt prayer and soul searching the body of elders decided that not only does Jehovah hate a divorcing but he also likes our trousers to match our jackets! Truly food at the proper time for if I had continued on that rebellious course I way well have turned into one of those Metrosexuals or even worn tight pants!
Love the website by the way
Ozzy Steve
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:18 am
Cowboy boots are popular here…. try prying them off our guys and you’re gonna have some serious Red Neck tantrums.
Reply
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:38 am
Well, it depends on when and where you’re prying them off, Tara..but, I digress.
What this little snippet of a blog is highlighting is how arbitrary JW standards are and absolutely controlling elders and COs will (and have been) over every tiny aspect of your life–from music choices to what songs are played at a wedding reception (one reception banned Michael Jackson dance tunes–he was disfellowshipped but it played some freaky Rick James).
All of this odd, dysfunctional behavior in the guise of appearing “normal” or “righteous”.
And, it only confirms the eery feeling I had watching folks receive the “silver sliver” matched the cult-like devotion the Communist China leader Chairman Mao inspired (nay, coerced) and the waving of his little red book of sayings. Similar to Mao, we see that this group’s leadership has their own devious plans for undermining the veracity and reputations of innocents and demeaning those who will not align to every whim of the local men who administer — mini-popes who apparently are infallible.
Reply
Prodigal son says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:59 pm
They don’t like Led Zeppelin t-shirts either. Especially worn in ur own home during a study.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:05 pm
Lol, the voice of experience, eh?
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:19 am
Not even Stairway to Heaven?
Reply
Garrett says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:06 pm
Oh dear… My Black Sabbath shirt is probably a no go then uh?
Reply
Ready 4 to Fade says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:03 pm
There was an infamous Brooklyn bethel overseer by the name of George Couch who was known for his homophobic rants at morning worship. This may have been a reaction to the major “outbreaks” of homosexuality in the 1980’s at Bethel. His warning was for no horseplay or wrestling in the Bethel residence, for fear this may lead to homosexuality. His rants were somewhat joked about and taken as the ramblings of a rogue figure on the fringes of the Bethel hierarchy. Now it seems like the rogue has become the vogue.
One other thought: maybe it’s a jealousy thing. I can’t remember a more portly group of GB members. Maybe Splane and Lett have BMI’s which don’t measure as obese, but the rest certainly do. This while potential CO’s and their wives are excluded from serving due to their weight being too high and the Borg not wanting their health insurance premiums to go up.
Reply
KaKaJones says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:12 pm
I’m so CORNFUSED. Do guys wear tight pants in Europe? Did Tony Morris give a talk somewhere and he isn’t used to the style they wear? Maybe he saw a guy who is growing out of his pants? The beach boys wore tight pants in the 1960s. Maybe Tony’s gay.
Reply
Oubliette says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:46 pm
Let’s review: It’s a cult!
Reply
Catalina says:
October 16, 2015 at 9:04 pm
My questions are answered. I just watched Cedar’s video about Tony Morris.
Reply
just asking says:
October 16, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Then our C.O should be the first to go. He is simply cool and wears those “fitting” blazers. One time i was summoned before him for my excesses in my dressing, He pretended to chastise me but later he privately told me he likes my style, which only shot my admiration for him through the roof. This is the guy who will deliver a talk at a convention about high education and will say ‘it’s bad only if it is pursued with wrong intentions’. We who are close to him call him “our moderate CO” I once worked with him in the field, we only did two houses and he announced he needed to eat, we ended up in a high end bar eating and having “serious” wine, afterwards we could not continue preaching. I thought this guy is cool. With such lifestyle, I always wondered why they had not fired him, I then learnt that the guy was simply too rich, with trendy cars at his country pad. He was actually doing the org a favour.
Reply
Mamajane says:
October 16, 2015 at 9:10 pm
I never understood how any jw, especially a pioneer, could be fat. All the time they’re turning in for field service, all that door to door……they all should be fit. NOT!
Reply
Phoenix says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:31 am
Really? They are on a budget. How many times did we make Mcdonalds and other dollar menu runs for lunch and break. Not to mention they aren’t as active as you think. Long rides in cars all day – waiting in the car – walking a few door to doors. Not to mention they the rank and file are depressed. I work at a bank and I guarantee I put in more steps daily then they do. I feel the problem with weight in the KH’s is when do the poor fools have time to go to a gym. Between meetings studying service and jobs with crappy hours who has energy or time to stay in shape.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 16, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Everyone has said quite enough about the governing body. Especially about their appearance. Their dress, grooming and physical fitness should be emulated, not mocked.
I refer you to their most recent group photo: http://imgur.com/EGl3x6c
Had to do it one last time…
Reply
ScotWm says:
October 16, 2015 at 10:56 pm
We all know that spirit-anointed Governing Body member Anthony Morris III hates seeing tight fitting clothing on men. However, the latest Caleb and Sophia cartoon shows their father wearing both tight pants and a tight shirt. His clothes are so tight, it looks like he was poured into them. My guess is that A.M. III hasn’t seen this cartoon yet.
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/be-truthful/
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:43 am
@ScotWM. Just looked at the cartoon of Caleb and his father. Wow, those are some darn tight pants and tight shirt also for the Father. I think the Dad is a Metro Sexual! They should do a cartoon of Tony Morris giving him counsel together! lol
? So what if a “BROTHER” has a very short crew style hair cut flat top style which was popular in the 50’s and 60’s is that sanctioned by the GB since many in the military wear those kinds of haircuts?
Would that be worldly and imitating War mongers?
I am sure nothing would be said bc Tony and his boys have a 1950ish mentality on dress and style.
Reply
Caltanzee says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:09 am
Wow!!! You’re right! The video does show caleb father in tight pants..So it’s do as I say or else…But don’t do as I do…what crass hypocrisy!!! Btw, these videos are sooo creepy.omg!! Just had to LMAO!!
Reply
ScotWm says:
October 17, 2015 at 9:05 am
Take a look at ‘Caleb and Sophia Go To Bethel’, where you will see the two kids cozy up to Anthony Morris III in what appears to be a library room. On the shelves are dozens of bound volumes and a collection of the old, obsolete Rutherford Rainbow books.
Then you will see young brothers and sisters as they happily perform a series of menial tasks for their masters. This is odd, because it has been announced that some of the essential services shown, such as the cafeteria, laundry, housekeeping and barber shop will be discontinued in order to devote all Watchtower resources to the Warwick palace and grounds.
And the moral of the story is: “To serve Jehovah is the best work that there is.” And Caleb agrees; “I want to go the Bethel when I grow up!” That’s right kids! You too can enjoy a life of slaving for the seven anointed Governing Body members at Bethel — until you get thrown out on the street with no marketable job skills and no money.
By the way, Caleb’s father wears more modest attire when visiting Bethel and his wife’s dress covers her knees.
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/caleb-sophia-visit-bethel/
Reply
alanv says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:51 am
The organisation has always wanted to control its members. We all know that. This is just another way they can do it.It allows them to make the general public think they are all in total agreement and that all men dress much the same and all women wear much the same clothes as other women in the cong. They don’t want any individualism. They see it much like independent thinking which is a big no no.
The only difference this time is that they have gone a step further and banned dissenters from the ministry.
But yes it will further alienate many in the congregation from the org, so good news, lets hope many more will see the light and get out of this cult.
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:21 am
Hi folks two considerations. I remember “discovering” about intersex and thinking thank god i didn’t have one.NOT because i wouldn’t love my child but i thought every one in the congregation would know about my child,would judge the poor thing how the hell would i dress the child? There must be some family out there who have experienced this and had to conform which means they have had to deny that most fundamental basic right of choice.Hoe would tony nasty pants help such a person who may be ambiguous in all aspects of their persona?Oh i know go door to door but don’t preach or some other daft edict.Point two Jesus wore a dress in comparison to the blue suit of a business man of today so maybe we should put him on the reject pile too. No preaching for you me laddo and get that beard off. Is there anymore pottiness to come forth yet. It is truly laughable if not infuriating. Where is the Bible in this?(just my and others reminder).Inthe end its going to come down to the secret person of the heart is it not.? ruthless/ruthlee
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:33 am
On a personal note which if i write and the naughties read this will know who i am ha ha. A fat bone idle pioneer who would not go out door to door just rvs had a ‘study’ with a white witch for years i think they compared Terry Pratchett novels. Anyway i invited them all to my house for the study and she walked in and said “another Jehovah’s Witness Pagan” best compliment iv’e had in ages. the end of this tale the witch is still a witch, the expioneer is still a fat lazy slob with medical conditions and im still a bit trippy hippy dippy and wear purple and scarlet together because i like the colours ha! Ruthlee.
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:25 am
should see the looks I get when I turn up in my mile high ‘tight’ black, ribbon lace up boots and goth skirt and tops….. Usually they know I am having a bad day and leave me alone… well autumn is here and those yummy boots and black skirts and tops are coming out of the closet…..
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:20 am
Gotta pair in black another in purple and another in brown need i say more tara! ruthlee
Reply
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
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The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
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Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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558 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Reader says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:09 am
Back in my teenage years which actually were the sixties, the initial contents of the letter would be applauded as a corect and responsible religious lead. I would hear the same from teachers at school.
However to worry about tight pants is very small to the real child molesting problems.
Tight pants are not good for males and some medics would point to sperm count reductions as evidence of this.
You see young men in public seating unable it seems to sit squarely in a seat, perhaps becase the pants when sat squarely in cause uncomfortable crush in personal places, either that or there is a quite epidemic of swollen testes. You see them knees over the seats either side of them.
As we age, how we have cared for our body can be rewarded by it lasting in better condition and functionality.
Unable to sire your own children if the worst happens is no laughing matter.
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:34 am
So yet another ‘secret’ edict, deemed only fit for elders’ understanding, is revealed.
Governing Body and Associated Hierarchy of the Watchtower Soc, don’t you get it yet? There are no more elders-only edicts possible. Thanks to the internet age of information, your reprehensible policies will be exposed every time.
These new diktats on clothing are discriminatory in most countries, as well as cruel and stupid.
GB and henchmen, you are going beyond what is written; you know it and you don’t care, because your only deity is power. Thanks to the internet, though, more and more people now know this too. You will be called on your system and its myriad cruelties, and you will have to defend yourselves. You might want to start liaising with your own legal department — you’re going to need it!
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Tamar says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:10 am
There’s a sister in my hall that wears a very butchy looking hair cut. I guess the elders are gonna have to “counsel” her. …smh.
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Chris says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:54 am
The most disturbing passage of the outline is the injunction against “effeminate… bearing, body-language and speech.” These are subconcious traits and mostly beyond control. As if witnesses with these traits do not suffer enough pointless shame!
I recall many bethelites from my time who were described as effeminate, and put up with all kinds of disrespectful treatment while continuing to work there for years. The atmosphere was paradoxical. The same bethelites who indulged in homophobic name calling also regularly made homoerotic jokes about eachother. Many witnesses outside would be shocked by the humour between bethel boys.
But, that is only a natural consequence of locking up a load of hormonal young boys in cramped rooms, banning masturbation and telling them that they can’t have a girlfriend for a year.
So far the society hasnt offered a “gay cure” for the rank and file but it has reportedly been tried in bethel a few years ago with “masculinity classes”, so watch this space.
What would elders have made of the apostle John lying in the bosom of Jesus? (Oh, but they changed that in the latest bible to “close to”)
It seems like tougher times are coming for witnesses who struggle to keep on the so called “straight” path and I really feel sorry for them.
Imagine the legal fiasco though, if a disgruntled bethelite is ejected for being effeminate and takes the society to court for discrimination?
If the GB keeps setting these stumbling blocks down in front of themselves, they are bound to keep tripping into a thorny patch of increasingly liberal law.
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Tonypendejo says:
October 17, 2015 at 6:17 am
Effeminate? You mean like shaving your face to look for feminine? or are we applying WT trademark interpretation of this word too?
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Terance Schmidt says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:14 am
That idea of “the way that people dressed when I was a kid is how ‘God’s People’ ought to dress” is likely responsible for many of the religious groups that dress funny.
Hasidic Jews (1800s Poland), burka-wearing Muslims (way back Middle East), Amish, “Holiness” Christians.
Perhaps if clothing styles change enough the JWs will enter that category.
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:25 am
The term Gastrosexuity was used and it brought to mind part of the Torah which forbids the lardicapped and men without genitelia to serve as Levites at worship. Most of the GB are undeniably obese and this medical fact came to mindhttp://www.medicaldaily.com/circumcised-men-and-obese-men-sometimes-end-buried-penis-what-it-318794
In high school I worked in a hospital laundry room and the doctors used to come to our dock area and smoke cigarettes. One time I asked one of them for if he had an extra cig, and he proceeded to tell me that his was a disgusting habit. He said show me a smoker or a fat guy and ill show you someone who never wipes himself. He went on some rant about how the vast majority of fat guys they had to undress or smokers all had this foul problem. It was a sign of no discipline or self control in their lives. I would love for fat tony or any of these other horizontally challenged false prophets to write that Awake article.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:58 pm
@Robert67…. YOU HAVE COURAGE & GUTS to TALK ABOUT …. FAT PEOPLE !!
LOOKS LIKE ME & YOU COULD BE SQUASHED to DEATH By the … AS You Say .. HORIZONTALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE…. SHhhhh .. DON’T MENTION the .., F??? .. WORD .. !!
I think I’ll Just POP DOWN to MACDONALDS !!!
WHY DON’T FAT PEOPLE HAVE a SENSE of HUMOUR???
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R Morris says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:49 am
I allway thought of myself as the “good elder” When I became an elder there was only10-15 years difference between me and some of the young brothers in the KH. Although I was married with and soon to have a baby I personally still enjoyed playing basketball,football,and baseball. I was usually the organizer of these sports with the teenage boys in the congregation,and a lot of these kids where sons of elders.These where truly fine young men that I enjoyed mentoring and being there safety net when it came to athletics.They were doing all that their parents and the WTBTS asked of them.
Of course we get our visit from the CO, he goes down his checklist of what the congregation was doing right,wrong or other wise.All in all we get a good report.Then he mentions that noticed some of the brother had “worldly dress (again these were good clean cut kids) I stayed silent because I assumed these men would stand up for their own sons.Not one of them did. I was so ashamed for them. Finally I couldn’t take anyone more everyone in the meeting that these were kids, not 40, 50, 60 year old men and that we should not expect nor want them to dress like us. The room got silent…..And in the CO’s defense he said “well, if you brother are OK with it then I am” I never look at those elders the same way again
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Average Joe says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:46 am
That’s exactly what being an elder is all about. Good for you for standing up for them. If you defend what’s right, despite how others on the body react, you can do good for the congregation.
I can’t believe the rest of the GB have sided with TPT. A sad day indeed.
I’m reminded of Trevor Noah’s sketch on YouTube when he was told by a friend “Don’t be gay!” That’s funny but this situation if elders go along with it is very sad indeed. Marking people for being effeminate or for having the wrong hairstyle is bad enough but not even having the backbone to inform the cong why… that’s because if the cong as a whole get to know of this then they would be outraged. I for one am not going to sit quietly when the CO brings this up.
PS. Lloyd, I’m glad you found someone to corroborate my story. I can see your reasoning why you need to wait before publishing stuff. If only the GB were as reasonable.
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 9:12 am
I think Tony 1,2,3 left Vietnam for the same reason Maxwell Klinger tried to leave in the tv show M.A.S.H
and despite his “biography” no one can seem to find an Anthony Morris lll on any service list for Vietnam and the things he describes happening where he was “stationed” are openly denied by real veterans of that war.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:05 pm
@Robert67 ..,, ITS on PUBLIC RECORD & IT HAS GUTTED ME to the HEART!! .. That Our DEAR ANTHONY MORRIS ., MOST BELOVED was DISCHARGED From VIETNAM because HE WAS TOO FAT & His NICKNAME was ‘BIG TONY’ or was it ‘…BURGER KING TONY’!!
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Keith says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:39 am
Hi Pickled Brain, do you have a reference for that comment? Would really appreciate it.
Regards
Keith
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Keith says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:37 am
I was in Vietnam about the same time as Tony says he was. His descriptions of his time there are colourful to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if he really was.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 10:26 am
@gardy … You say you know brothers that are KINDA FAT , BUT DONT EAT A LOT ‘ …, WELL there were 6 MILLION JEWS that WENT INTO the CONCENTRATION CAMPS , Some VERY FAT& GENETICALLY some came from FAT Parents, BUT After 6 YEARS EVERY ONE WAS BONEY & SKINNY !!! IT is a KNOWN FACT that you RESTRICT CALORIES to 800 a Day for 6 WEEKS thenTYPE 2 DIABETES can be Reversed& YOU WILL LOSE WEIGHT!!! IT IS CALLED … ‘ SELF CONTROL’!!! The GB MAKE NO EXCUSES for Someone Who SMOKES JUST ONE CIGARETTE Even though there is NO SCRIPTURAL LAW Against it BUT There is for GLUTTONS & GREEDY PEOPLE …..NAME ME ONE Brother or Sister who has been DISFELLOWSHIPPED for FATNESS , YET PLENTY for SMOKING!!!
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Looksathipocrates says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:07 am
I’m sure there is some Awake home school science article justifying the gluttony with “I’m big boned” or “I have a gland problem” Both of these statements have been repeatedly discredited, you might pack an extra few pounds due to any condition, but none gives you the mass of two, three, four human beings. It’s that same Awake science condemning sleeping on your side or vaccinations or …….Here in the States members are encouraged to enjoy the bounty of welfare benefits and the free food buffets they place on your table. Your forbidden from seeking the type of employment that would contribute to the benefit system, but also tought that
You are entitled to all the free you can get out of the worldly governments tit. Everyone still in, needs to defiantly wear tight suits, grow beards, go to school and write to your local politicians to ban the cults carts from selling their cult ideology on public streets.
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gardy says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Pickled brain, are you telling me that people should starve themselves to death ( like in the concentrations camps) to follow the Bible command on gluttony or self control? That would be very simplistic to explain the obesity pandemic in terms of how much someone eats on a daily basis. What do you do with factors such as the global food system, the genetic make up of individuals, the almost generalized sedentary life of our modern societies which its lack of exercises, individuals cultural background and their environment, etc? The obesity problem is multidimensional and cannot be understood by taken into account a single factors. Moreover, I don’t need the Bible to tell me that smoking is harmful! This is an evidence that smoking is unhealthy even for people who don’t even care about religion whatsoever!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:09 pm
@gardy…. As You ACKNOWLEDGE !! SMOKING KILLS… SO YOU WARN PEOPLE About it !! WHY ?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE THEM!!
FATNESS & OBESITY KILLS … SO YOU WARN THEM !!! EAT GRILLED FISH & CHICKEN & SALADS & VEG .. SMALL PORTIONS !!
OBESITY CAUSES DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE , STROKES , HEART ATTACKS, & CANCERS!!!
PLEASE READ @ Hippocrates POST Above yours @ Gardy . He Makes a LOT of SENSE!
I am NOT BEING INSENSITIVE !! OHhh PLEASE …. You Say ThERE Are SLIM GLUTTONS ???? That is what an AWAKE said about 10 years ago !! LIVES are at STAKE…
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gardy says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:00 pm
@ pickled brain, don’t get bitter and feel compelled to go against any biblical stand ( like the one on homosexuality) take by the jw. You might have been a victim of the Watchtower Society like many others but you don’t have to be insensitive. The obesity epidemic cannot be explained by a single factor; it is multidimensional! I consider myself that the global food system ( GMO) is one the biggest cause of death in the world. The so called organic food is actually not an alternative for many poor people in the world. Moreover, I know people that some would consider as gluttons but who are very slims and some who don’t even eat half their daily intake who are struggling with weight issues!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:31 pm
@gardy … HOW CAN YOU SAY THERE is NO BIBLICAL STAND AGAINST GLUTTONY or GREEDY PEOPLE .., In the MOSAIC LAW .. GLUTTONS Were STONED to DEATH & How About JESUS CHRIST who WARNED AGAINST OVER EATING & OVER DRINKING & ANXIETIES of LIFE & LINKED IT with DAYS of NOAH When that DAY would come those like a SNARE.
WHY is IT FAT PEOPLE GET SO DEFENSIVE !!!
YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELVES & YOU ARE ADDING to YOUR DEPRESSION by GETTING FATTER… !!! IT IS LOVING TO WARN PEOPLE THAT ARE ENDANGERING Their OWN LIVES Like you Would a SMOKER or DRUG ADDICT !!
YOU NEED to GO COLD TURKEY …. ONLY SMALL PORTIONS PLEASE????
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gardy says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:08 pm
@ pickled brain, it seems you completely misunderstood my point! I am not saying binge eating is actually a good thing or there is no bible laws against gluttony! I am just saying that obesity cannot be explained by only one factor, which is how much someone eats on a daily basis. It’s part of my secular job description to encourage people to live an healthy lifestyle!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:40 pm
@Gardy .. OBESITY CAN BE EXPLAINED by ONE FACTOR & that is TOO MANY CALORIES EATEN & NOT ENOUGH CALORIES BURNED OFF !
I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF … STRAP a CAMERA to yourself & REALLY REALLY BE HONEST with Ourselves who are or have been FAT… My Mother & Grandmother died of STROKES .. It Runs in my Family … I LOST 6 STONE by EATING JUST GRILLED FISH, VEG & SALAD & EXERCISED …. IF YOU NEED HELP CONTACT a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL!
BUT LETS ALL BE HONEST & HAVE the COURAGE to SAY .. I AM or WAS TOO GREEDY!!
I used to LOVE ‘KEBABS ‘ twice a week! But ONE KEBAB contained 199 Grammes of FAT ! I Loved FISH & CHIPS, SAUSAGES,BURGERs, PIZZA, HAAGEN DAZ ,etc BUT my BLOOD PRESSURE SOARED …I WAS GREEDY & FAT !! LETS TELL the TRUTH!!
GOVERNMENTS HAVE SHAMED SMOKERS by Saying SMOKING KILLS … WELL … SATURATED FAT KILLS!!! & EATING TOO MANY CALORIES in EXCESS to the CALORIES BURNED OFF will mean FAT PEOPLE!!
Well Gardy I have ENJOYED our LITTLE REPARTEE… I am SURE we can AGREE on One thing is OBESITY KILLS PEOPLE & You Can PUSSYFOOT Around BUT PEOPLE ARE HAVING FEET AMPUTATED & Other LIMBS AMPUTATED & DYING EARLY because of FAT RELATED DISEASES LIKE DIABETES !
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:55 pm
@gardy .., please don’t use that EXCUSE that ORGANIC FOOD is NOT an ALTERNATIVE for POOR PEOPLE .. I DID NOT SAY THAT& THAT is a FEEBLE EXCUSE … SO MANY People on BENEFITS SPEND a FORTUNE on FAST CONVENIENT FOOD, LOTTERY TICKETS,ALCOHOL & CIGARETTES! & Even if they didn’t … THERE is PLENTY of NON ORGANIC FRUIT & VEG & Baked Beans, Kidney Beans,Sardines,Tuna,Mackerel cheaper than the CRISPS,CHOCOLATE ,CAKES , BISCUITS,Coca Cola & other FIZZY DRINKS I HAVE SEEN ‘POOR ‘ PEOPLE PUT in Their SHOPPING TROLLEY !!
STOP MAKING EXCUSES & SAVE LIVES!!!
anonymous says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:13 am
My son is about 150 pounds overweight and if anybody said anything to him about his weight, I know it would kill him emotionally. He suffers from terrible depression and I would hate anybody who would do that to him and I don’t think I could ever forgive anybody who did that to him.
It isn’t nice to talk about people’s weight, no matter how much sense it makes to people with “normal” weights. None of us know what those people are going through and how much they wished they could lose weight and look “normal” like everybody else.
Picking on people for how they dress and how they look is being pharisaical and shows it is not a “Christian” religion.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:18 pm
@ Anonymous …. If your Son was SMOKING 30 CIGARETTES a DAY because he was DEPRESSED & it Was KILLING HIM would you TALK about it as HIS LIFE Was at STAKE???
If Your SON Is 150 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT I Would ADVISE You to TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT IN A KIND WAY because if You Don’t HE WILL EITHER BE DEAD or Have SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEMS !! & OBESITY Will ONLY ADD to his DEPRESSION
You LOVE HIM SO PLEASE SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT IT!!!
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Excelsior! says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Pickled Brain,
I am overweight. I know it is bad for my health. I do not need to be reminded by you, thank you all the same.
I smoke. I know it is bad for my health. I do not need to be reminded by you, thank you all the same.
People are already aware of the health risks, sir. That’s the easy part.
I have found on my own experience that I have to have something to lose, to provide me with the incentive to improve my condition.
Many people, such as myself, have to deal with depression and other mental health issues. Some turn to comfort eating to self medicate.
Many JWs are suffering from depression, because of the cognitive dissonance created by the WTBTS cult. They may turn to food as a source of comfort. They may also suffer from poor choices of foods due to a low income and, crucially, a lack of time to prepare healthy meals.
Your point about gluttony being prohibited and punished is biblically correct.
However, your using this arcane piece of literature to browbeat people is a bit too much in my opinion.
I enjoy your lively comments usually, and I am sure that I shall again!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:38 pm
@Excelsior… WELL WE CAN AGREE ON ONE THING???…, YOU USUALLY ENJOY MY LIVELY COMMENTS …!!
YOU CAN’T PLEASE EVERYONE ALL THE TIME …
I Hope to Keep on Enjoying yours .., So KICK the FAGS & Go On a Diet!…
SIR.
Reply
JJ says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:50 pm
I agree with Pickled (makes me think of pickled eggs, pickled vegetables and other good foods) brain and I always wondered why the Society never ‘picked’ on these really obese elders who would waddle around dispensing their judgements on everyone else.
And Pickeled brain is correct in losing weight. I am practicing fasting myself several times a month. The weight is dropping off quickly along with other health benefits. Set small goals for yourself like just one push-up. You’ll be able to easily do it and probably a lot more. The goal stays small but the results will be huge. Willpower over motivation.
When you are in control over your eating, you will feel in control over your whole life. It will help depression and other mood disorders.
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:52 pm
@JJ .., THANK YOU.. JJ .. IT TAKES GUTS & COURAGE to SAY WHAT YOU SAID!!
IF ONLY FAT PEOPLE WOULD BE HONEST & HELP THEMSELVES THEY WOULD BE HAPPIER!!
Excelsior! says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:22 am
Pickled Brain,
You have managed to offend many people with your quasi evangelical rant about weight issues.
I am happy that you were able to conquer your own weight issues.
However, your infantile response to my previous post alarms me.
Do you have the capacity to comprehend that weight issues are complex and “one size fits all” solutions, namely your own, simply do not work?
I was hoping for a mature response from you, but all I got was an infantile “go kick the fags and go on a diet!”
If you think that this was a suitable response then I would humbly suggest that your debating skills need some serious improvement.
Rather than constantly bombarding this post with edicts to solve complex emotional, mental and physical problems by simply stopping doing something, why don’t you go and research addictions and come back to the forum with some mature solutions?
I enjoy comedy as much as anyone on this site. However, it does become grating when it is the sole form of discourse.
Funnily enough, you telling me to “kick the fags and go on a diet” have had no positive benefit to me at all. In fact, they have had a deleterious effect.
Are you still a Christian, Pickled Brain? If so, then how has your whole crusade against people with addictions and weight issues brought honour to Jesus Christ?
I think it’s time for us to see a different side to you, sir.
We need to see the good man who is trying to help cult victims by bravely staying inside the cult.
I respect that man. I do not respect the man who has the gall to browbeat people about personal issues that have nothing to do with escaping a cult or are, frankly, any of his business.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:21 pm
Peaceful Excelsior, I always enjoy your comments and am in total agreement with all these judgmental comments coming on. I know it was just used as an example for something but now it seems to be a war on overweight people. Good grief. Isn’t there enough of this crap going on from fathead, picky elders and judgmental picky publishers? It’s like so many here are still exhibiting the traits of the Watchtower. Those of us who have left, know the signs.
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:22 pm
I meant disagreement and not agreement.
Catalina says:
October 17, 2015 at 6:36 pm
Meridith, you are so right. I was thinking the same thing. I’m happy you said it. I hate judgemental people.
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Thanks Catalina. Truth be known, I was so upset about something else which happened to my husband and daughter. It just stood out like a neon sign to me.
My husband has been going for motorbike rides with a brother who was out for years, but decided to go back. When he was questioned about how he felt about disfellowshipped people and people who had left, he said he would have to follow protocol.
My husband asked him if he had told anyone except his wife that they went riding together, and he said he hadn’t. He said to him “Well, if you stop talking to me because I’m not a Witness, we’re not friends anymore. That is it. You can forget it.”
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:21 pm
The other thing was what happened to my daughter the other day. She received a phone call from a friend she had known for a long time when she was a Witness. This girl had decided, after having been out for years, to go back when her husband returned.
My daughter tried to reason with her from the scriptures as she felt that Jesus had been dumbed down by the New World Translation. Of course she did not get anywhere with her but she tried. After awhile her friend said to her “If you keep on with this line of thought, I will have to report this.” My daughter got off the phone and cried which was verified by my little grand daughter. The intolerance is phenomenal and the brainwashing is breathtaking. The most unChristian attitude of these people is disgusting.
Anyway, I wasn’t picking on anyone personally. I just could not help seeing the same judgmental attitude rearing it’s ugly head even on this website.
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Why is my comment awaiting moderation? I made a comment about 3 days ago and it is still awaiting moderation. What is going on? Coincidentally, it was the same comment.
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:38 pm
My comment about fathead elders probably wasn’t the most well chosen, I suppose considering there are active elders on this site. Sorry for any offense. I had no specific persons in mind.
Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Meredith you are doing great. I like you because you’re not arrogant. I haven’t heard you say anything that sounds disturbing. You aren’t mean spirited. You are a friend.
Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:30 pm
The intolerance you and your family are experiencing feels disturbing. It’s funny that sister left the ‘truth’ and then as soon as she returns to it she becomes intolerant all over again. The intolerance I see from JWs and some ex JWS is disturbing. It was enough to make me feel like giving up. It’s people like you who help people like me because you are reasonable. I’m glad you are here. You make sense. It’s hard to be around people who aren’t reasonable and have to be right all the time and wont give up trying to control other’s minds. It’s distrurbing for us because it’s something we don’t do. You are doing well.
Meredith J says:
October 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm
Catalina, you are very sweet. Your words are very uplifting for me. You have no idea. I had forgotten how absolutely cruel the people associated with this rotten cult could be and so blind and brainwashed. After all these years we are still affected. It’s just like my daughter said. “It’s like the Hotel California. You are welcome here but you are never allowed to leave.” Good day to you Catalina. You are my friend too.
JB Reezner says:
October 17, 2015 at 6:42 pm
Well, far be it from me to stay out of a good dust up.
PB, I know you get wound up, my friend, but Anonymous’ comment made it clear how serious of an issue this is for her. We don’t need to pry into the details of it, but whatever those details are, they surely don’t include her simply neglecting to talk to her son about his weight.
Stress, genetics, metabolism, hormones, health problems, sleep problems, etc. There can be many additional factors contributing to obesity other than diet and exercise.
Personally, I probably eat 5 times a day, even on past midnight, whether I’m hungry or not. I’d get into the psychological reasons for it, but Excelsior covered them well enough.
But the main point is, although it is true that you will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume, that can be an impossibly difficult endeavor for many people.
Ultimately, this is one of those issues like depression itself, where, if you can’t personally relate to it, it’s best to just say a few encouraging words, and move on.
Your trademark mixed-case diatribes are better suited for less sensitive topics, my friend, and better aimed at Org trolls and the like.
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Shanti says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:42 pm
PB, I have read on other exjw forums about many people in the congregations needing to be heavily medicated w/ anti-anxiety, anti-depressant and anti-psychotic medications in order to function. Many of these medications cause tremendous weight gain.
I personally gained 40 pounds in 6 months on an antidepressant w/o increasing food intake and doubling my exercise. I then had to take benazepril HCL (40mg) for high blood pressure. I quit taking all medications and promptly lost the weight.
I once had to take a steroid drug for an autoimmune disease. I quit as soon as I started gaining weight. I know people on this drug who look like balloons.
There can be many reasons for weight gain. Perhaps most of the obesity it is due to overeating but please don’t be so judgmental. You have no idea what personal hell some of these people go through. Not everyone is as strong as you. I do not believe all weight issues can be handled as easily as you handled yours. By the way, congratulations on your healthy weight lose and lifestyle change.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:29 pm
@Shanti .. ASK ANY PROPER DOCTOR & THEY WILL TELL YOU 98 % of the OBESE or OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE in the WORLD is DUE to EATING TOO MANY CALORIES or the WRONG TYPE of FOOD & NOT DOING ENOUGH EXERCISE !!
THERE WILL ALWAYS be AN ODD EXCEPTION !
FATNESS ONLY ADDS TO THE DEPRESSION !!
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:39 pm
@PB Reezner . WELL THIS IS WHERE WE DISAGREE BIG TIME !! FATNESS KILLS & SO DOES SMOKING & SO DOES ALCOHOL ABUSE !
YOU & MANY OTHERS are VITRIOLIC & OUTSPOKEN to 7 MEN in BROOKLYN WHO ARE. KILLING PEOPLE with their POLICIES !! So LETS BE FAIR & BE AS OUTSPOKEN to WHAT FAT PEOPLE are DOING to THEMSELVES !!!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:57 pm
@JB Reezner … Apologies in my Last POST I addressed you as PB … I HAD JUST EATEN a BIG MAC & I THINK the FAT CELLS Had CLOUDED MY BRAIN!!
SwimmingWild says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:34 am
Great article. Great site. Super conversation.
I remember as a 16-year-old in the 60s being nervous about buying some jeans described as “hipsters”. How weird. So perhaps it’s a theme associated with sexual repression that emerges from time to time more or less strongly. And in this craze ludicrously risible. And entertaining.
There’s no point in trying to find logic in a cult’s rulings-they’re only there to condition obedience-but what is more masculine than a beard? And Caleb’s father’s tight pants – will the boy need to “counsel” his very own father, and will the timeline of emerging new light be revealed through the Caleb archives, when later episodes are re-drawn with baggy pants and loose shirts?
PB-I agree with JB Reezner-normally your energised partial capitalisation is funny and to the point, and appropriately targeted. Your movement to TOTAL CAPITALISATION prompts a kindly response, in a quiet friendly voice, “are you okay?”.
Most people recognise that the issue of obesity is complicated. It’s extremely hard to buy foods that don’t have sugar added, and sugar is very cheap-and now we learn that fats are not the health danger we once thought. So the authoritative advice from the scientific community is confusing.
In this interesting lecture by Dr Doug McGuff from 1.12.20 he starts to talk about nutrition, and at 1.14.10 he explains that modern diets can produce the experience of “internal starvation” where the body is craving more food due to a corrupted metabolism.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU
There are pathways out of obesity, but that’s an individual’s decision – and journey, surely?
SwimmingWild
Shanti says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:52 am
PB, I don’t think anyone is disagreeing w/ you about overeating being the main reason for obesity. I for one am trying to convey that there are a myriad of reasons for overeating. If overcoming such painful personal tribulations was that easy for everyone, no one would still be in the JW’s!!!
I had hoped you would realize you are being smug, rude, insensitive, disrespectful and as judgmental and self-righteous as a JW, haha! I do think you owe anonymous an apology. This side of you is not pretty.
I don’t crawl out of my hole very often to contribute here.
I never feel comfortable when I do. I’m crawling back into my hole now and hope not to comment again unless you start talking about people in wheelchairs should be able to get up and walk if they really wanted to.
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:18 am
What a disappointing thing to wake up to, PB. Your comically frenetic tirades can be entertaining, but I wouldn’t have guessed that they could so easily be aimed back at those around you who like you and care about you. Even more surprising is your use of ridicule in your response to our respectful attempts to reason with you on this matter.
Anyway, to stay on the subject of alternate reasons for obesity would just sound like whining, so I won’t do that. Really, those of us who have had trouble with this issue would not have even brought the subject up without seeing a need to shed a some light on it. That need was created by your oversimplification of the problem.
So let me steer this toward what my main concern has been from the beginning. Anonymous is one of the most thoughtful commenters among us. Sometimes, when I’ve gone back to see what people have talked about on posts that are a few days old, I see that she has continued to diligently respond to people making comments. Whether their comments are friendly or critical, Anonymous’ replies are generous and well-reasoned, and they show that she cares about people and the important issues that come up on this site.
In your comment to her, you implied to this clearly loving mother that she is failing to do something important for her son, and if that failure continues, the result will be that “HE WILL EITHER BE DEAD or Have SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEMS !!”
But carelessly throwing the subject of the life of her child in her face, as if the real problem is that she has simply never considered the dangers of being overweight, is astonishingly careless and cold. Your approach and your conclusion were both wrong.
It’s the kind of thing that could have hit her so hard that she’s now faced with the question of whether or not she even wants to come back to us.
I’m not the kind to demand apologies, but I would hope that you see a need to apologize to her for at least the manner in which you addressed this extremely serious issue to her.
If we end up losing her thoughtful and sincere voice, it will truly be a substantial loss. I hope you can do something to prevent that, PB.
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Please stop all of this. I need my family on here. Lets please agree to disagree and move our energy back to where it is needed….. helping others to break free from the Borg and have a family to turn to once out. I have a confession to make because I feel bad. Our secretary texted me today for my time… Haven’t done anything in over 3 months. I lied… I texted him back and said one hour. Well I was talking about the WT….. just not in a very nice way.
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Tara, I’m proud of you for your 1 hour. They want you to talk to people about what the Org has to offer, and you have been doing a lot of that. I say kick it up to a few hours next time. Also, throw some mags in the garbage bin, and you will be able to count some placements too!
Come back, Anonymous. PB is simply a crazy person.
PB, you’re simply a crazy person. And you, my friend, have to accept what I’m telling you because “a TRUE FRIEND Will Say The TRUTH About a SITUATION Even If it Might Hurt in the Short Term”!
You can’t argue with YOUR OWN WORDS!!!!
JWChange says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:19 am
I am appalled by this micromanagement by the GB as stated in the latest edict, which was brilliantly brought to our attention by JWSurvey’s confidential contacts. In my opinion, the GB are delusional and breaking two key ‘theocratic’ rules:
(1)beating the flock; (2)going above what is written.
It’s similar to how Judaism evolved from the 600 Mosaic laws into the millions of interpretations of the Talmud. And how Islam evolved, from the general simplicity of the Quran to the multi-volume Hadith.
I am of the opinion, the latest ‘what you can wear’ Pharisaical interpretation by the GB, is a shot in the foot and will help some JWs wake up to TTATT.
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Winston Smith says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:23 am
@JWChange – Good points – their behavior hardly seems “discreet.”
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Lospecchio says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:47 pm
The talmud is not a set of rules, it is a continuation of the the conversation of the nature of who the jews are in relation to their god and the rest of the world. Only the most conservative jews think of the talmud and even the bible the way jw’s and the rest of enlightenment era conservative christianity think of their own rules and regulations, which includes the various “literal” interpretations of the bible.
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Winston Smith says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:19 am
Lloyd, your points “the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle” and “they have shown that…they are easily manipulated by a strong personality” are well made.
The fact of the matter is that this organization has always looked for a strong personality to rally around. It is often indicative of a destructive cult that there is a charismatic leader driving the extreme culture. It has been the case through most of the organization’s history. Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz – All men who became a focal point in the organization and this led some of the most outrageous teachings and practices. After Fred Franz’s death it seemed that there may not have been as strong a central figure in place, hence we saw some relaxation of some of the stricter policies in the 1990’s. Is perhaps Tight-Pants Tony going to emerge as the next central figure in the cult? It will be interesting to see where this leads them…
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Morpheus says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:26 am
Hey, not good times ahead for Serena… check this out:https://www.pinterest.com/pin/549017010796270310/
Too tigth, sister!
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JB Reezner says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:54 pm
In harmony with the Org’s latest adjustment in priorities, the next publication to be covered at the Congregation Bible Study has been announced: http://imgur.com/Thv43AH
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Kaput says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:41 pm
Always had my hair long and my trousers tailored, was confronted a few times by management to conform or face the consequences, when I retorted that Jesus had a beard and long hair I was told that his appearance was acceptable by the common folk of his time, well guess what tony Morris the third (wtf?) tattoos, long hair, beards and body piercing are accepted in business and most social settings these days, pinky rings and rolexes send the wrong message so I suggest you address your attire and conform.
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Erin Horn says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Talk about tight pants, Wait until JW learn that the Watchtower has 2 billion in Wall Street much in Defense Company’s, Alcohol, Tabaco and Media. Every Jw will download in their pants making them very tight. They have to dissfollowship them all.
Too see the IRS form of Watchtowers holding in said company’s Click on http://nccsweb.urban.org/communityplatform/nccs/organization/profile/id/386043103 then forms 990 and see from 2003 (when the U.S. and Britain went to war) – 2014. They have bloon on their hands and stool in their pants.
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Ted says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Cults and totalitarian regimes, are in fear of individualism,
critical thinkers who might challenge their authority.
Even in the matter of dress, an independent person with
their own special tastes is seen as a threat, someone who
who will encourage others to think independently. it can’t
be tolerated.
In this case, an imaginary enemy is conjured up. —
Homosexuals, who are apparently out to conscript us,
and who’s mode of dress is designed to entice us and
lead us to eternal damnation.
It’s the “Reds under the Bed ” syndrome, paranoia. Dictators
often invent enemies in order to legitimise purges.
Even independent bible reading is conceived as a threat.
You can’t understand it they say without ” Gods org,” so
reading it alone or in groups not authorised by us, is futile.
Over 7 billion people on earth, but the Bible belongs to just 7.
Total fantasists.
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Julia Orwell says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:44 pm
So women can’t even choose what sort of hair they can have? This is like North Korea, where they have a chart of acceptable hairstyles all people must choose from. What about women who’ve had cancer and have gone bald or have that fuzzy fluff or are growing their hair back after cancer?
What about brothers who grow moobs for whatever reason?
You know what this is a slippery slope to: deciding what JWs can and can’t wear outside of the hall too (more even than now) and soon women won’t be able to wear pants anywhere and men who like pink and purple will be be castigated. This is where old fusty jws can force culturally-constructed gender stereotypes on the R n F (even moreso). Well done, Taliban.
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Kat says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm
WT are communists.
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ScotWm says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:16 pm
First, we are subjected to the bizarre homophobic ramblings of anointed Governing Body member Anthony Morris III. Now, the majority of the Governing Body seems to have moved over to the dark side with A.M. III on this subject. The sad fact is that Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to believe whatever their anointed Governing Body members say, no matter how asinine.
A big problem faced by the Governing Body is that the entire doctrine concerning the 144 thousand anointed has become strained, particularly now that their numbers are increasing every year. In order to address this issue, the January 2016 Watchtower (Study Edition) has this article: “We Want to Go With You.” — What should we remember about the 144,000? The problem is that this article raises far more questions than it answers. The most obvious problems include:
“Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior.” (Yet the anointed Governing Body members continually subject their cult followers to “new light” rules and regulations which must be obeyed — or else!
“Because even if someone has received the heavenly calling, that person has received only an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward. That is why Satan raises up false prophets . . . to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.” (More and more witnesses are beginning to wonder if false prophets have infested the Governing Body.) And with good reason. The article also warns: “Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven.” (The article raises the distinct possibility that the Governing Body could include false prophets and those with mental or emotional problems.)
“Jehovah’s spirit bore witness to them personally. No announcement was made to the world.” (Watchtower literature constantly reminds its readers that the Governing Body members are of the anointed class. This article is no exception.) But don’t annoy their spouses with embarrassing questions like this: “We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise.” (I would like to hear how some of the wives of Governing Body members would answer this question.)
“In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.” (Apparently, the Governing Body didn’t violate this rule when they declared themselves to be exclusive members of the faithful slave club.)
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2016/we-want-to-go-with-you/
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Holy Connoli says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:00 am
@ ScotWM. I just read most of the 1/15/15 article
in the wt. Talk about nonsense and a lot to say about nothing? When I read verbiage like that I wonder what the purpose of the article is> It is like they are trying to keep everyone thinking the same way and dictate exactly what to say, feel, think and act. Another thing is for sure although they say do not treat “ANNOINTED ” ones like celebrities the R&F are trained to do that bc the GB give themselves the special status and special authority. I know when my spouse goes to the annual meeting ot has a GB over my house they act like Jesus Christ himself is in town. It is ridiculous. That article was so VERY SHALLOW. Even for long time JW’s it is just nonsense.
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ScotWm says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:14 am
Holy Connoli says: “Talk about nonsense and a lot to say about nothing?”
A few years after Fred Franz’ 1975 prophesy failed, the Governing Body was forced to come up with new light that would allow later day contemporaries (an overlapping generation) to claim anointed status. The fact remained that those claiming to be of the anointed have absolutely no way to prove that they have a heavenly calling.
Being told that “they just know” is not an adequate explanation, but that is the only explanation offered. However, the Watchtower doctrine of the 144 thousand anointed ones who will rule with Christ in heaven must be accepted by all Jehovah’s Witnesses, unless they want to be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
So, once again, the Governing Body presents a Watchtower study article, discussing the anointed 144,000, which is totally devoid of any substance. Yet, this study article will be read to all congregations and audience members will parrot back the nonsensical information from the paragraphs and accept it as truth.
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 2:10 am
@Swimming Wild .FAT PEOPLE are KILLING THEMSELVES . PERIOD ! You say it’s HARD To FIND FOODS WITHOUT SUGAR??
Well TOMATOES,LETTUCE,CELERY,BEETROOT ,BROCCOLI ,WHOLEMEAL RICE,,WHOLEMEAL BREAD,SARDINES,LENTILS,COD,HADDOCK ,TUNA,GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST,CAULIFLOWER ,RADISHES,KIDNEY BEANS,LEAN BEEF ETC,ETC
I could NAME a 100 other FOODS !
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GEM says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:51 am
@Swimming Wild: Yup, my partner makes a lot of Cakes with Sweet ‘n Low. Avoid Tropical fruits and believe it or not, White Flour and Sugar levels can be controlled. I am type 2 Diabetic, but inject Insulin, twice daily and Lixisenitide.
Trouble is though Pickled… Insulin does make you put weight on, so Portion Control is often the greater challenge.
Wish the WT Society would use its Printing capacity to explore practical help for people like me. Especially to look at the presence of ALLOXAN in white flour in the UK and the USA especially, so that we can have fluffy white cakes to tantalise us, and look to at the preserving agents to preserve White rice. Could expose the biggest cover up since Thalidamide!…
Back to topic… maybe an expose on the medical affect of tight pants on the human crotch would at least show Tight Pants Tony was worried about human welfare!
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Enoughisenough says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:53 am
@ScottWm- very informative post thanks a lot! And kudos to those who can still stomach reading the WT… I can’t bring myself to anymore! It stirs up to much that I’m trying to contain.
Reflection: Reading this quote”they have received an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward”, I wonder if they are paving the way for an inevitable new light to explain the growing number of anointed? They could say.. a lot of people are ‘invited’ (hence the number can be greater than 144,000) but only 144,000 have their ‘reward confirmed’ in the end!! Oh man… I would not be surprised at all.
I mean… after having seen an overlapping generation, nothing surprises me anymore!
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ScotWm says:
October 19, 2015 at 11:36 pm
Enoughisenough says: “Reflection: Reading this quote ”they have received an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward…”
The January 15, 2015 Watchtower (Study Edition) has the article, “Why We Observe the Lord’s Evening Meal.” Two interesting topics are raised: “Who Should Partake?” and “Responding To Your Scriptural Hope.” Unfortunately, these two topics are not adequately addressed by observations such as these:
“Individuals entitled to partake of the Memorial emblems know that they have been taken into the Kingdom covenant.”
“Only those who have the witness of the spirit that they are God’s children should partake of the Memorial emblems.”
“Those who have received “a spirit of adoption as sons” are God’s spirit-begotten children. His spirit bears witness with their spirit, giving them the realization that they are Jehovah’s anointed sons.”
As far as the “invitation” statement is concerned, I searched the entire article for this key word and it isn’t there. The article also contains a lot of unrelated scriptures. However, 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 actually seemed to be on topic. So, I searched the entire chapter for “invitation” and again came up with nothing.
It looks like the Governing Body pulled the entire invitation idea out of their …. hats. The fact that the invitation statement has no scriptural backing is a good sign that the Governing Body will soon be using it to explain the growing number of memorial partakers.
I thought the “overlapping generations’ doctrine was ridiculous. The “heavenly calling invitation” teaching may prove to be equally unbelievable. Perhaps the invitation will be likened to a lottery ticket, where there will be a few winners and lots of losers.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20150115/why-observe-lords-evening-meal/
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ruthlee says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:33 am
Hi scotwm we need a new thread on this one I read the article after you posted about it I have given up reading the drivel now, but iv’e got a theory on it Apart from tight pants nonsense any thoughts on how they are going to keep the punters in for the next 20 years? they are already fantasizing about paradise (endless q uick builds and studies). How about telling the majority they are all anointed now and all royalty if they pay enough.The evangelical and born again christians will have a field day. How to keep the rank and file distracted for a few years and then change their mind again. I can see that panning out can’t you? ruthlee,
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ScotWm says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:02 am
ruthlee says: “How about telling the majority they are all anointed now and all royalty if they pay enough.”
You may be on to something. Will the Governing Body finally reduce its adherents to only a faithful few hundred, who will do whatever they demand? Would these faithful few have paid enough for their anointing once they begin to openly worship the Governing Body members?
The Governing Body has already said, “We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval.” — Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition.
And the Governing Body has already made this endgame proclamation: “At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. — Watchtower, Nov. 2013 (study edition) p. 20 par. 17.
Could it be that Warwick will turn into another Jonestown?
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Holy Connoli says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:02 am
A ScotWM. I meant to say I just read the 1/15/16 WT . Sorry I am a year behind! lol
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ScotWm says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:32 pm
Actually, I didn’t notice the incorrect date until you mentioned it here.
Your earlier observation about the Governing Body being treated like royalty reminded me of the special treatment that circuit overseers received when they visited my congregation.
I have never met any Governing Body members, but I’m sure they attract a lot more groupies than lowly circuit overseers.
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SwimmingWild says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:38 am
PB I really don’t get why you’ve morphed into delivering this tirade which you must know is being taken personally by many individuals here – and despite the number of people asking you to tone it down – do you have a problem keeping your weight down or are you close to someone who is overweight, and is it distressing you? Your engagement with this topic is unusually vociferous for you (now nearly 100% capitalisation). Can we have the good ol’ entertaining PB back?
@GEM – On the topic – and re tight pants and health – we know about overheating reducing the count – but aren’t tight pants a bit like elastic tights used to reduce thrombosis in the legs on long flights – perhaps tight pants, like Caleb’s dad’s, will help him survive sitting still through long boring meetings. In fact perhaps as Caleb is supposed to sit still, he could get cardio vascular health benefits from tight pants, or better still “spanxs”, worn at meetings.
SwimmingWild
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:39 pm
@Swimming Wild …. YOU IMPRESS ME ! You have kept your COOL & Been CONCILIATORY towards me …. Yes I am Okay & I LIKE Your Style in ASKING ‘ Can We Have the …. GOOD OLD ‘PB ‘BACK ?
You May ….
My Comments could have come over as Smug??
BUT a TRUE FRIEND Will Say ‘The TRUTH About a SITUATION Even If it Might Hurt in the Short Term it WILL BE a LONG TERM BENEFIT
If I BELIEVE Something is The TRUTH I Would Rather LOSE ALL MY FRIENDS? Than COMPROMISE what I Believe ! Like you all we have compromised OUR CONSCIENCES for 7 MEN & I AM NOT GOING TO DO IT AGAIN !!!
But TAKE CARE Swimming Wild … YOU ARE a GOOD PERSON!!
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Nemorino says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:59 am
I can’t help but recall my experience during my first week at Brooklyn Bethel. My table head, a senior member of the Service Department remarked to me that “there are a lot of guys here in Bethel that are light on their feet.”
Most of these types had the so-called “white collar” jobs in the office, Service Department of writing staff.
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Nemorino says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:59 am
I can’t help but recall my experience during my first week at Brooklyn Bethel. My table head, a senior member of the Service Department remarked to me that “there are a lot of guys here in Bethel that are light on their feet.”
Most of these types had the so-called “white collar” jobs in the office, Service Department of writing staff.
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ruthlee says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:19 am
OH B***dy H**l whats all this diatribe on fat people. Who actually cares if they are top of the food chain. Let’s just distribute lovely kaftans so we/they can float around being lovely.If all the depressed jw’s had not been lied to they there would not be such a prob in org with older folks, It’s called comfort eating because most jws know there is no happy ending no paradise no reward so they eat themselves into an early grave. When you are poor you starve or overeat depending on your geography. Maybe the watchtower should do it’s job properly and start distributing bread and wine. Then we will see some miracles! I’m off to the kh and going to do a mental calculation of the calories the collective had for breakfast as i don’t think there is any other way to keep my brain in gear seeya ruthless/ruthlee
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Robert67 says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:38 am
Alright everyone hitting RESET on this one. Don’t let the GB’s conquer and divide tactics work on here. We all see the weight topic from different angles. As Obi Wan Kanobi would say only the Sith(GB) speak in absolutes. I noticed a comment above that compared a lot of these restrictions to the Talibans methods of hijacking a faith. Lets focus on the evil we and our loved ones are facing in the Watchtower. Im off to meeting.
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Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:04 pm
I started the whole diatribe about obesity…
…sorry….
Look…there is a happy ending…
All the fat people get eaten first when the Zombie Apocalypse starts. (see Zombieland
…first 10 minutes for reference)
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:23 pm
@Garret… YOU ARE MAKING ME LAUGH!!!
ARE the ZOMBIES FAT???
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JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm
Don’t get your hopes up, Garrett. I never miss Walking Dead, so I will be the first one bustin’ caps in zombie heads when it all goes down. And Zombiegeddon will surely be coming any day now…
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:27 pm
@Robert67…. I HAVE JUST HIT the RESET BUTTON !
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:43 pm
@Ruth Lee … I BET You LOOK GOOD in a KAFTAN!!!
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:48 am
Oooooh i doo with my goth boots ahahaha(evil Smile) rl
Reply
PaxRomana says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:23 am
Hahah! And the disintegration continues.
Reply
Ted says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:35 am
There have been some well authenticated instances in which
women have been transformed into men, and it is possible
that this transformation may become general and we shall
all be brothers together.
Oh! Why did I ever doubt the truth, the Judges words are
coming true right before my eyes, Women are morphing
into Men, wearing trousers and short back and side haircuts.
My wife and I are going back to the Kingdom Hall this very
afternoon, to proclaim our repentance and beg forgiveness
I think I’ve got a spare suit she can borrow.
Reply
Amy says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:36 am
It’s interesting that these new dress and grooming rules were only announced to the elders. The Borg knows they’ll lose a ton of members if it was announced publicly. They chose to try and discreetly have the elders police the Cong. The r&f will never know that they can be banned from preaching unless they found out from this website or the like!
Reply
Actigall Ur says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:10 am
That is why it is OUR responsibility to make this public to the Borg! :) Email and Facebook away!
Reply
Jake says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:54 am
Wow that’s some conversation regarding weight!
Who do you owe an explanation to, not for me to say, but I do understand that it’s more than rare for a JW to be disfellowshipped for obesity.
I suppose, regarding the article, that most companies have a dress code, seems the JW’s code is occasionally dictated by sexuality. Do you need any more evidence that individuality is crushed within the JW community even if your not on duty. . . .thats the point.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:19 pm
@Jake … GLAD You Enjoyed the QUIET , UNCONTROVERSIAL DEBATE about WEIGHT??
Reply
RC8madBrit says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:04 am
I was a JW child in the 50s. And trust me, TIGHT PANTS became a huge fashion along with no turnups (except on jeans) and ‘winklepicker’ shoes. We all wore them to meetings with no comments from the ‘servants’…maybe because they were all outside having a fag in the smoking break we had between the Pubic Talk and the Watchtower! Hypocrisy has always been rampant. In the late 60’s the fashion world added the ‘Maxi-skirt’ to the mini-skirt as ultra fashion. My mother and sisters and girlfriend all rejoiced. They could be fashionable yet ‘modest’!!! Banned by the elders. We should all just look like frumpy, dowdy old-fashioned, boring self-righteous busybodies. Just like the Governing body and their wives!
Reply
Cherie says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:06 am
So well said, as usual, Lloyd. To achieve the best of our human nature, we must seek to incorporate both positive feminine traits and positive male traits into our personalities and behaviors. This is true androgyny, which has more to do with practice than it does with appearance. And it’s nothing to be afraid of.
Reply
Actigall Ur says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:08 am
So let me get this straight (no pun intended :) ) and please correct me if I am wrong:
Wearing tights pants and yes, even tight “jackets” – BAD
Hiding pedophiles from the public to save “Jehovah’s good name” – GOOD
—————————
Wearing multi-colored socks for bothers and having short hair on sisters – BAD
Shaving all facial hair (except pedophile mustaches) for men – GOOD
—————————-
Shall I continue?
Watching rated “R” movies as an adult – BAD
Talking about masturbation, petting, anal and oral sex and other sexual activities in a public talk while children present – GOOD
——————————
Going to college, improving your education, accepting a promotion at work – BAD
Encouraging your members to sell their houses, cars and valuables because the end is coming so they can go preaching and live like vagrants off the goodwill of others – GOOD
————
Sounds reasonable. Where can I sign up for these words of wisdom directed by “God”?
Reply
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:13 pm
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day… actually a 7th day…. and he said we should – including him, join the catholic faith. We can screw up all week and then go and say sorry and start with a clean slate.
Reply
Average Joe says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:56 am
@Erin Horn
Would you mind clarifying the site you mentioned please?
Eg. The 990 form for 2014 (2013 Tax Year), at the end there are a load of assets. Does that mean that the WTS have invested money in all those stocks & shares? If so they have shares in PepsiCo – owned by the Mormons I believe. Also in Apple (hence all the Apple gear they use. Maybe I should ask them to sell me a new iPad Pro at their discount rates!)
As I understand it, and please correct me if I’m wrong, investing money (especially large amounts as the WTS has apparently done according to this report) in stocks & shares is basically a bit like the lottery: you can make a fortune but you can also lose a shed load too?
Another reason I don’t give them anything anymore since coming across this site. I’ve a good mind to write to them and demand I be given my shares in Apple that they used my money given to advance Kingdom Interests!!!
Reply
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 18, 2015 at 10:28 am
On the other hand…
Having survived HIV/AIDS, Anita Bryant, Reagan/Thatcher, 3 Bush Administrations, Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell, horrible hair-styles of the 90’s, and several waves of anti-gay Propositions, a secret missive from HQ is simply another bullet-point added to my agenda.
Let’s review the scriptural basis for these banned-from-serving–and, here is where it really gets heated up. There are scholars on both, or all, sides of this discussion which occurs not only with JW’s but in ALL Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions who have a translation of the terms used in Leviticus and Corinthians to condemn “swishy males” and “masculine women”. And, here is where losing one’s religion becomes required because it rips the covers off the “magic” behind the Bible and the evolution of dogma. One side states these passages from Paul are not condemning what modern society views as homosexuality but what was practiced in ancient Roman Empire where a rich and powerful man (usually married, too) would use his wealth or position of power to compel or acquire sexual services from young men or impoverished men offering themselves as prostitutes. My first time reviewing these suppositions was a book written by John Boswell, “Christiantiy, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality” (written circa 1980). These arguments were expanded and supported over the years, and Matthew Vines (USA) has been a key spokesperson offering the same evidence that the terms used in 1 Corinthians 6 for “effeminate” referred to Roman citizens considering a man lacking manly affectations–a warrior, a leader, merchant, farmer, or a laborer, but being rich, a life of ease, given to expensive garments, and “party animal” rather than a responsible citizen.
The argument also adds that the “homosexual offenders” (note, wouldn’t ‘homosexual’ have been enough, why the redundancy?) translated here in chapter 6 is reference to men in positions of power (by authority granted or wealth) who used men (and it isn’t refuted that Paul was using masculine here as a universal/gender-neutral term to include women) for their sexual pleasures, or abused men for selfish purposes. So, in this context, the argument would be that a man of authority–say, an elder, MS, CO, or GB member–is condemned by Paul’s words if they used their position to intimidate, coerce or molest young men (and women).
References:http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/no_fems_no_fairies.html
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html
http://blogs.christianpost.com/confident-christian/does-paul-condemn-homosexuality-in-1-corinthians-and-1-timothy-12362/
https://www.youtube.com/user/VinesMatthew
Reply
Erin says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:56 am
Who controls the trust? The HENRIETTA M RILEY TRUST provides to watchtower moneys (yield) from this stock portfolio that has 100 of millions in defense, Boing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and many others.
In other words Watchtower takes blood money that you would be dissfollowship for just for sweeping the floor. Hypocrites who exploit dupes for there labor while profiting from blood money. If the brothers and sister back at bethel had know of this they would not have given up their lives for no pay so Watchtowers could playing in the Stock Market.
They also own Media shares which may have protected them all this while. There are many questions to conceder. Is this person dead? If they are, when? When was the trust been started? When was the trust started and have they added to it and when?
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:50 pm
The answer to your questions is that perhaps it was always dead because the true history of this cult is one of deception. We know who the master of deception is don’t we? Hypocrites right to to the core. From Russell through to now it’s been lies and manipulation. We were attracted like moths to a flame but caught with a net like a spider traps it’s prey in its’ web.
Reply
Erin says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:58 am
And did they borrow against the 2 BILLION in any way shape or form
Reply
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:19 pm
So…. this whole wearing tight clothes thing… does this overlap (smiles to herself at being clever with words) with our day to day life? I mean if we are caught in public wearing skinny jeans, yoga pants, leggings etc etc and that’s just the brothers…. are we likely to be spoken to by the ‘What Not to Wear’ clothes police?
Reply
Erin says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:21 pm
If this was a loving group of human beings they would take some of that stock hopefully out of defense stock and see to it that the bethel folks could get a new start. This work labored under false pretense (that this was an ethical organization) and under dress ( false prophecy, i.e. fear) and undue influences (dissfollowshiping) and for no pay (labor law). Can anyone say FRAUD and CORRUPTION i.e R.I.C.O. CHARGES.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:46 pm
@Tara … Thank You for your comment… YOU are a LOVELY LADY& Please don’t Worry I will Revert back to the important TASK in HAND & that is WAKING UP PEOPLE to the DANGERS of the 7 MEN of the GB!!
Reply
Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:06 pm
Pickled Brain….you gotta explain one thing to me that has really haunted. Namely…the capitol letters thing….
see…usually when things are in capitol it means that someone is yelling….yet….in context it doesn’t fit…unless someone has Tourettes syndrome…..
Just curious…….I HAVE to ask…
G
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:56 pm
@Garrett.. TOURETTES ??? Hmmm! FaScINaTiNg QuEsTiOn!!!
You could have HIT on Something there!
I MUST GO & SEE MY DOCTOR??
Reply
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:14 pm
You called me a lady! Aw bless ya cotton socks.
Reply
Jake says:
October 18, 2015 at 2:51 pm
What the bloody hell are ‘gender blurring characteristics’, can some one explain?
Don’t tell me you’ve just given license for the local Elders to determine it for themselves. (Shaking my head in my hand)
Gender blurring characteristics, would that be like a man who is compassionate, thoughtful, gentle?, would a gentleman also considered to be ‘gender blurring’, or is that permissible?
Governing body :-) , shame, aren’t you the ‘bride’ of Christ, are you not apart of the ‘woman’ in Reverlation 12, do you not feel the same as the maiden towards your master, so beautifully written, in the Song of Solomon,
did not David love Johnathan more than women?
Now it’s not my problem that Toni (oops) Morris has a fixation with tight pants is it?
Let’s say, for instance, a brother is effeminate due to the abuse he’s suffered or seen are you willing to crush him further?
Now regarding tight pants:-) doesn’t nature itself teach that animals preen and dance before mating.
Why are you so judgemental of people, does it make you feel better about yourself, that you have something to believe in?
As regards Toni Morris did not the Vietnam war make him realise that he was a gentle soul and needed the Christian message, is it all about power now?
Reply
Bearwoody says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:20 pm
New light: Gaydar is one of the fruits of the spirit!
Reply
Jake says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Nothing you can see that isn’t shown. All you need is love.
Reply
Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:08 pm
John Lennon was gunned down….
…in New York….
…wearing tight pants….
….any questions Jake?
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:19 pm
@Anonymous .. JB Reezner is Very Concerned at the WAY I Replied to you !
JB HAS a POINT … To a Point???
YES ,I Admit I was NOT TACTFUL…. Some might say that is Understating the case,???But I do Stand by The FACTS of what I said,YET I could have worded it in a MORE KINDER WAY…We are ALL entitled to AGREE to DISAGREE ??
Anonymous … EVERYONE VALUES YOUR COMMENTS on this site & YOU are a VERY, VERY KIND PERSON .
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:33 pm
You mean, all I had to do was call you CRAZY to get you to ease up a little?? Okay, next time I will START WITH THAT, lol! Good man, PB.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:36 pm
@JB …. YOU CAN CALL ME CRAZY !!! …SMUG, RUDE , CONDESCENDING .. BUT DONT CALL ME …. OHhh Should I Say This WORD??? …,, ANY of a SENSITIVE DISPOSITION ,Please Look Away NOW!!…..FAT!
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:40 pm
JB Reezner … You DESCRIBE ME as a CRAZY PERSON ??? ….
HAVE YOU BEEN SPEAKING to MY PSYCHIATRIST ????
HIS MAME is …. @ GARRET…. He has Diagnosed ME with … TOURETTES SYNDROME ???
I CANnOT ThINK WHY?? F***
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Interestingly, Garrett admitted to starting the obesity thing. NOW he’s trying to offend the sufferers of Tourette Syndrome. I’m starting to think we may all just be pawns in Garrett’s evil little game. Leave us alone, Garrett! You sick sonnova…
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm
@ SHANTI …, DON’T CRAWL BACK INTO YOUR HOLE as you said in your earlier comment…. YOU are A Very FUNNY Lady & VERY CARING TOO!!!
& YES .., I was Probably a LITTLE??? SMUG & CONDESCENDING & Whatever Else you called me in MY Comments … You DIDNT MENTION ..HUMBLE???
BUT I STAND BY The FACTS & on that I WILL NOT CHANGE.
But TAKE CARE DEAR LADY!!
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:00 pm
@JB Reezner . WHATS in a MAME??? Too MUCH FAT around my Eyes??
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:18 pm
PB called me a lady…. should I be offended? I’ll go look it up in the Bible according to T3. I am sure he will have a principal for me to consider regarding gender.
Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:42 pm
JB
Not evil. Just honest.
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider →
The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
avatar
Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
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Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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558 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Ted says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:35 pm
The info that only elders are privy to says, “The spirit of the world
is leading people to blur the distinction between the genders as
never before.”
So no changes, no progress, every body has a predetermined
place and must remain in it. Women must be in “Subjection”
( An ugly word akin to domination and slavery ) No human should
be in subjection to another human in, in any way.
It’s the spirit of the world, that they malign, that has liberated
women from being no more than the property of men, to a
position of equality, and the worlds a better place in consequence.
I make no apologies for this, but in my opinion it’s the “spirit of
Religion” all Religion,that’s kept half the worlds population in a
position of inferiority . Let’s have more blurring, I’m all for it.
The day of the dinosaurs is over. It’s not the form of dress that
they’re concerned about, it’s just anything that threatens
their authority,
Reply
Actigall Ur says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:03 am
@Ted- You said “it’s just anything that threatens
their authority.”
That is the answer. They BELIEVE they are truly the only ones that “GOD” speaks through and that anything they say is TRUTH!
Now who is ‘mentally diseased?”
Reply
Wip it says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:12 pm
Interesting comments & a lot of the mark, the problem that we will get is that a lot of Elders are old school red necks, particualary here in the country, i know of a few who will love this, we had one elder on the platform make the statement, that a man with a goatee is willing to swing both ways, lucky i missed that one, what a about pinky rings, soemone needs to get into the compound and start taking pictures, what goes on behind closed doors.
Reply
anonymous says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:15 pm
Thank you all for your kind comments. I appreciate them very much.
Yesterday I was talking to my son who is thirty five years old and he was sobbing because he was so depressed. I live 120 miles away from him and I wanted to go to him so much and comfort him but I can’t.
My husband was diagnosed with kidney cancer on Friday, which has gone into his lungs and it is a death sentence.
My son loves my husband more than anything but when my son was growing up, my husband was an elder most of the time and my son didn’t have a father figure at all. He was treated badly by most of the boys in our congregation and I was mostly his only friend. He turned to food and gradually it added up and added up. He wants a girl friend so bad but the food wins out as his comfort. He has sleep apnea because of his weight and has a cpap machine to help him sleep but he is always tired.
He loves Jehovah and the “truth” more than anything in the world and if those people in his kingdom hall told him that he was too fat to represent the “truth”, it would literally kill him. That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to him and the thought of somebody doing that to him would make me hate them so much.
He wants to be thin so bad but he is also so depressed because of his weight. People don’t help when they think that making suggestions about how to lose weight is going to help an overweight person. It only adds to their depression.
People like that need to know that they are loved for the person they are, not for the person they are supposed to look like.
It doesn’t take much for a person suffering from depression to end their life. Nobody knows how it feels to be that depressed unless you have been there.
Nobody should be made to feel as if they aren’t as good as anybody else because either they are overweight or effeminate or any other reason.
I have never decided that I didn’t like somebody because of the way they dress or the way they look. I like people because of how nice they are.
If somebody doesn’t like me because they don’t think that I don’t fit the mold of what they think I should look like, then I don’t think that person is worth being my friend. I don’t need people like that in my life and I am happier being around people who accept me for the person I am inside, not outside.
That is the problem I had with the Watchtower Society all my life. They judge people for what they look like and how much money they have and what kind of house they live in and what kind of car they drive. As long as you have money and good clothes, they will like you and that is one of the things that never did sit well with me and I now see it as one of the things that tells me that the Watchtower is not a good religion by any stretch of the imagination and this latest diatribe about what makes a person good enough to go in service, only confirms in my mind what was in the back of my thoughts all those years I was in it. I am so glad I can see it for what it really is now.
More than anything I wished my son could see the “truth” for what it is, but he just won’t. I think if he could see it for what it is, his depression would go away.
One of the reasons he was sobbing yesterday is because it was Saturday morning and he was too “tired” to go in service. He was too tired because of his sleep apnea. He is always tired and my heart aches for him and yes I worry every day about the fact that he is eating himself to death.
That is my life and that is the life of a lot of people and it is so easy to talk about how people shouldn’t eat too much but none of us know what these people are going through and we should never judge people over what they look like or act like. Is the person nice or not? That is the question. Judging people like that who are already suffering from depression. could cause them to commit suicide and that is just one more reason why I hate the Watchtower Society so much because that is the kind of people that the Watchtower Society has turned people into. They think they have the right to judge everybody else except for themselves.
The mental pain stuff like this causes for already emotionally unstable people is unforgivable.
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Meredith J says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Thank you for saying this Anonymous. There are some here, like me who are feeling exactly the same way. Catalina mentioned the intolerance. That is exactly what this despicable cult are full of.
I do not understand that it is not seen by those who are in it. They need to step outside and see the world with new eyes and then look back and see how evil that great theocractically spiritual and critical world really is. It is doomed but some here cannot see it.
When people hang onto something that is not real and it is trying to destroy them, then I just would so much like them to open up their eyes like your precious son. My son is caught up in it too. I don’t know if he is depressed as he doesn’t tell me a lot. Anyway, let us hope that the spell gets broken soon hey?
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Excelsior! says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:46 am
Dear anonymous,
Well said, dear Lady, well said.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Shanti says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:52 am
anonymous,
I know words, however kind, can’t mend your heartache, but those who care for you share your sadness and wish you comfort and peace. You have been a rock for many of us here. I live in the Midwest. I cannot take away your pain, but I can listen if you’d like to talk about it. You are in my thoughts.
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JB Reezner says:
October 19, 2015 at 11:41 am
You seem like a very strong person, Anonymous. I think your children and husband are fortunate to have you in their lives. I’m very sorry to hear about your husband’s serious condition. I hope there will be some relief for your suffering in the future, such as, the Org spiraling into insanity in an obvious enough way so that your kids will no longer want to be a part of it. May it happen soon.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:50 pm
I can hear your sadness and I understand…The way we are taught to judge in this organization from a young age is unforgivable…I think that your son is a vvictim and has been driven to the edge by this heartless cult…Im in it and I cant escape because of my fear of losing my family…but my mind has been liberated and I wish your son could have that freedom it would have the most amazing effect on his life…its all we want for our children for them to be the authentic and great person they can be…and be true to themselves in the process…I feel feel feel for you and I cant say how brilliantly you expressed yourself…this site is a gift for us and Im so grateful for its UNCONDITIONAL acceptance….we have not experienced this and its so refreshing….I dont believe in god anymore…some people on this site do…it doesnt matter…I applaud you anonymous whatever you believe…your treading a hard path…and if obes like me thinking of you with sympathy and empathy helps…this site has done its job…to quote excelsior…Peace be with you..
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SwimmingWild says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:20 pm
@ anonymous – I was saddened to read your post, yet heartened by your exemplary open hearted approach to life and people around you – all of us who worked for the Borg have done the discriminatory thing (perhaps you never did, if you were wiser than I was), but many of us have lived to have a chance to be different.
You face a difficult time, and no-one knows what it’s like for you, your husband snd son. There’s a good chance you will be stronger than you imagined you could be and that your son, having a warm heart like you do, will find a way out of his predicament. He is the one that can start to take the steps and more so if he experiences bring accepted and trusted to take responsibility for himself. Perhaps some pyscho–therapeutic support might open the door for him. Like a previous post said any life he can build with real relationships outside would help to open up a crack and give him the courage to separate. That said, it needs him to make a small step, then another…
With best wishes and warm kind regards – SwimmingWild
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Summer says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Im wondering what they will be saying when 2033 hits then like a ton of tights and leotards.
Just wondering
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Wip it says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:24 pm
I think a lot of my close friends are starting to see the cracks, a lot of people are not that stupid, as to what it will take i don’t know, as i have to hide from them, as to what i really believe, in yesterdays PT, the speaker said we are in the last days of the last days, the fools just lick it up,he should have gone more dramatic, “we are in the last seconds of the last minutes of the last hours, As for the cruelty, maybe its a by product of unhappy people, who are beginning to worry about nothing happeneing, some people are pointing to Obama & Putin as the old king of the north/south thing again, well we did that in the 90’s with clinton, nothing happened
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JB Reezner says:
October 19, 2015 at 11:59 am
Wip it, I think the best one is when the speaker holds up a pencil and tells you that the very tip of the lead is where we are on Jehovah’s timetable. My first time hearing that one was a longggg time ago. That is some extraordinarily long-lasting lead in that pencil.
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Holy Connoli says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:20 pm
@ JB REEZNER. The only place the Wt has lead is in it’s ARSE! lol
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Finn Sawyer says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:45 pm
Pickled Brain,
When I first started reading the posts on this site, I appreciated the first few of your posts I read. I appreciated them as what I thought were expressions of a frustrated, damaged person that is suffering from post-JW issues. Your sarcastic posts are rarely cogent but I thought perhaps you were just venting and needed to blow off some steam.
Having now read many of your posts, I see little value in what you write. Your letter-case confusion and grammar problems would be easy to overlook if it appeared you were sincere. Are you really trying to communicate something meaningful or do you simply enjoy inserting drivel in between the well-intended posts of others on this forum?
I don’t post often but I do enjoy much of the content. Some of us are using this site to honestly exchange views and enjoy the community feel that has been created here. It would be great if current JWs could see from our posts that we have more to offer than venting venom and nonsense which the org has always associated with apostates. We are thinking, searching, conscientious people and not simply the vitriolic nutcases they have come to expect. Thanks to your posts, we’ll have more difficulty making that case.
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Sister drifter UK says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:35 pm
I agree with you- so many posts are valuable and helpful but many are just ranting on and bitter which isn’t helpful. So you have to trawl through those and can sometimes miss those of value in the process.
I am trying to drift- or rather have drifted- without bitterness or anger. There are many good things I appreciate about my nearly 60 years as a witness. I believe that is possible – to retain your dignity without resorting to some of the insults that many who post here seem to not be able to resisit.
Maybe Loyd if he reads this can look carefully at what is being said and keep everyone back on track.
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Actigall Ur says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:26 am
Lloyd, Finn, et al- I’m sorry to report, I have found Pickled Brain.
http://www.kxxv.com/story/30294512/local-jehovahs-witnesses-kingdom-hall-attacked-man-arrested
Ok ok I’m joking but I like Pickled Brain’s sense of humor. I get it! 😉
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Pickled brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:15 am
[inflammatory/insulting/off-topic comment removed – see posting guidelines]
Pickled brain – you are welcome to join the discussion on JWsurvey, but I invest a lot of time and energy into making this website a success, and the comments sections on my articles is becoming somewhat graffitied by your angry, confrontational, capital-letter strewn comments. I am going to have to insist that you cease using capital letters in anything other than the first letter of each sentence, or I will delete any comments you make henceforth, or block you from posting if you persist. Hopefully it won’t come to that and you will start playing nicely, but you need to understand that this website is for everyone’s enjoyment – including active Witnesses – and the current tone of your comments is not conducive with the environment we are striving for. Thank you. – Lloyd
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JOE SMITH says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:24 am
Pickled whatever – back off now please ! You exhibit some frightening psychological aberrations ! I don’t even read what you spew out here for a variety of reasons which have already been mentioned.
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Sister drifter UK says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:58 am
I trawl through and ignor pickled brain.
So thankyou Lloyd for this.
This is a very useful site spoiled by these rants.
Is there any news on downsizing in UK?
I know many special pioneers who have retired and are still being kept ‘on the list’ and I am concerned for their future financially.
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Bart says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Thank you.
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Donald duck says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:16 am
I agree, personally I have a pretty good feel for people and pb wasn’t on my favorite list… I’m only saying this because I feel strongly about his biased comments, especially towards anonymous…
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Pickled brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:07 am
[comment removed – any further similar comments and you will be blocked – final warning]
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Meredith J says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:51 am
I am glad to see at least Pickled Brain tried to say something. We do like to hear the old happy Pickled Brain again. We had seen you become more expressive over the last few months and it was good to see. None of us are perfect. We all have our moments. I hope you can join us again soon.
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Anonymous says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:35 pm
I feel like my life has been ruined by the organization
I was born in “the truth” I’m a guy 23 years old. My dad was a ministerial servant and my mom was a regular pioneer for many years they are very spiritual. However the problem is I’m gay and nobody knows
For years I thought I could just push those feelings behind me and focus on “serving Jehovah”, but I’m beginning to realize that all I have been taught was a lie. It all started by hearing members of the governing body give those ridiculous and outrageous comments regarding tight pants I believe it was Morris anyways it shocked me because I grew up going to a Spanish congregation so I never heard any of them speak before and it sounded so weird coming from a man that is supposedly “annointed”. And with the child abuse cases piling up, you know 99% of the witnesses ESPECIALLY non-English speaking witnesses are completely clueless and will never believe it or say Satan is behind it. Anyways now I feel so alone and depressed all my life I never had friends not at school (wasn’t allowed) or at the hall all the teenagers at the hall had their clicks and I guess I did not fit in and since my brother was disfellowshipped I was seen as bad association ….whatever
The thing I HATE the most about myself is not going to college since that is REALLY Frowned upon in the congregation because according to them all we need is the theocratic ministry school (which is going away I believe) my parents would not have supported me. But this article just opened my eyes
I read on the young people ask book that if you had homosexual desires it was ok but just not act on it, but now the society thinks they can control people’s behavior if it seems not according to their gender like what?? I’m a guy who you can’t tell I’m gay unless you ask me and I know there are many more like me in those halls so that is ridiculous. Also Watchtower is full of #%* scaring everybody about Armaggeddon, there are evil evil people in this world and to think God is going to destroy me because I’m not in my seat at the Kingdom Hall or because I love another Man? And I also hate the attitude the brothers have if you are young and not a pioneer or a ministerial servant you are looked down upon and they will not hang out with you because you are bad association. Those elders could care less what happens to you even though in their mind they know you will be destroyed…sick
But I love my mother it breaks my heart just to even think about telling her the truth
I’m in deep #%*
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Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 10:35 pm
Anonymous, I had an uncle who was gay. He was born in 1921. He died at the old age of 92. He was in a long term relationship. I liked my uncle and his mate. They never stopped thinking of me as their little girl. I knew they were gay because my mom told me they were gay. I grew up convensed there is nothing wrong with being gay because of my uncles. I want to give you the good advice my uncle explained to me. He said he never allowed his moral compass to be out of control. He was in two long term relationships during his life time because he out lived his first mate. I have learned to not tell people what I know they can’t handle. People can use info like a weapon. What I mean is it can be hard to be a private person when you are taught to tell everything. Your depression is caused by what you know you will lose. jW friends and family are close conditionally. It’s more important to be respected than liked. Jw mentality lacks in giving respect. If you end up having to let go of what you know replace it with all the good you have learned. Take the good you have learned from the religion with you in your new life. You will be happy once you find a man with your kind of background. Life moves forward. I really don’t believe anyone knows what the afterlife is really like.
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Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:18 pm
Anonymous, I want to add something to what I said. I was so depressed when my family turned their backs on me I went to Kaiser Permanente Psychiatry department for help. Kaiser Permanente is a medical clinic. I’m glad I went. Going there helped me in a huge way. Now I feel normal. It worked. Get the support you need.
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Meredith J says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:00 am
Anonymous, you certainly are in a predicament. I am certainly no expert on any of this but even though you feel you are in a unique spot, I am sure you can get some help.
The first thing that I would suggest is to not tell any JW’s how you feel. I mean even your dear mum. You see Anonymous, if you have witnessed the kind of judgmental attitude that has been coming through on this forum, then you find that this is the kind of rebuttal you will get from people in the truth. They will no doubt shoot you down in flames which would be terrible, saying nothing about your self-esteem which would be in the gutter. Don’t tell them anything. They do not need to know.
Meanwhile I would plan my escape if I were you. I know that is a lot to take in but there is no way, you will be accepted by these people if you ‘come out’. Anyway, sounds like you may not be absolutely sure anyway. But whatever your sexuality, I think you need to do what Catalina suggested and get professional help. Secondly, I would try and get some training, or do a course, something where you would be able to help get yourself a good job if it is possible. This might take a while but it is a positive step to your freedom.
And maybe after you’ve sorted yourself out properly and left, then you can tell your mum when you are safely away from the clutches of the Watchtower. That is how I would tackle it. I am not you, and you need to sort yourself out. You sound like a good boy and I do not want to see you a victim of the Watchtower. Play your cards close to your chest and decide what you are going to do. That is what I would suggest anywayand take care.
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EverydayExplorer says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:51 am
Anonymous, both Catalina and Meredith J give some great advice re your brave post. I second all they say, and send you one virtual massive hug: well done, you, for knowing your beautiful gay identity! There is power and strength in that self-knowledge. The very best to you on your journey — you’re going to be okay.
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Roman Castañeda says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:41 am
Hello, I am here to say that I completely understand you. Or maybe that’s the wrong thing to say, but at least faced my frustrations in a similar manner. There’s this website, I need to look up the exact HTTP address, but just type in A Common Bond on Google and it should be pretty obvious once you are there. It’s a site, similar to this one in the sense of community, for active and in-active witness who are homosexual. I live in Dallas Texas. I hope you live somewhere with people you can trust. Once you read up on the website, which to be honest, doesn’t contain much, but it holds contact information for you to start a small support group in your local state. I hope this serves you well along with others who have yet to discover this tool. Take care
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MimiLove says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:14 am
First of all kudos to you for looking for some answers. My advice is to enroll in college ASAP, don’t even care about the comments or “suggestions” you may receive. Find and educate yourself in a career you will love. I’m 51 and didn’t go to college for fear my family (all elders) were told they would be removed if I did, so I succumbed to the pressure and have regretted it my whole life. As to being gay…some of the most moral and kind people I know are gay. Get your education then sit your mom down and have the chat. She will cry and maybe even threaten to disown you but you have to live with yourself and THAT is the most important thing, the ability to live with yourself without any regrets. Take care
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JB Reezner says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:49 pm
Anonymous, the heartbreaking predicament you are in is common, unfortunately. Having family in the Org creates an incredibly difficult situation for the Witnesses who are open-minded enough to realize that it’s simply a cult, lead by heartless fools with blood on their hands.
I hope you make it your goal to find your way out of the clutches of this false religion. It may have to be a long-term goal, depending on your circumstances, but please do have it as a goal– never taking your eyes off of it. Remember, if the happiness of your parents has to be paid for with your own personal misery, that is not fair to you– and it’s too high of a price to ask of anyone.
Your happiness may be out there in the form of a simple disconnection from this life-wasting cult, while you maintain your adherence to the doctrine you were raised to believe that deals with the subject of homosexuality. Or, you may find that your happiness is out there in the form of marriage, or some other type of union, with someone you fall completely in love with.
Either way, continue to be honest with yourself, and choose the path that your heart tells you will lead to real happiness, whatever that path may be.
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GEM says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:25 am
@Anonymous: I am struggling after my Heart procedure. I was “blue” lighted back to hospital, unable to breathe. Out of circulation for a few days, I doubt you will even see this.
Friend…. I really can help. But, I don’t know how to reach you. I feel so strongly for you it would be wrong of me, NOT to extend my arms of help. They are there for you if you want to try to contact.
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odisius says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:12 am
The truth is this…ive read alot of ex jws stuff and post and seen videos and ive read about the history of russel and Rutherford. Most ex jws simply put hate law froom what ive seen and heard from their own videos,they taunt,they say bad words they mock they lie of who they are when they go to meetings to the brothers ,and yet alot them seem to claim that they hate lies when they hide who they are at meetings. I am a df person but i always keep it real, i left because i wanted to do everything that was bad and i did follow satans course i felt just like him.remember this fact even tho saul was the king of israel jehovah rejected him but david did no wrong to saul yet were they not jehovahs people even tho saul was king? We shall all render a account to God wether Governing Body member or not remember this fact.
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Matt says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:47 am
Incomprehensible jibber jabber. I’ve heard “truth” like that before…
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SIRIUS says:
October 19, 2015 at 5:29 am
>>>I am a df person but i always keep it real, i left because i wanted to do everything that was bad and i did follow satans course i felt just like him.
WOW!! From one attachment to another! So spiritually attached to satan, this you know? Lay on the couch and tell when did it all started?
IMHO
dogstar
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Chiafade says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:40 am
It doesn’t seem like you’re keeping up with the goings on of JW.org. Because all of the negative connotations that you attributed to apostates apply to watchtower perfectly.
They lie about who they are ( we are a clean organization). They use bad words in the form of misinformation and hate speech ( apostates are mentally diseased). Oh and did I mention they LIE “all this child abuse stuff is nothing but a bunch of apostate driven lies and dishonesties”
There is a very serious ethical problem in the organization. So, do you believe that God cares more about doctrine than ethics? In order to trust this organization you have to believe that and if you believe that than you are, I’m sorry to say, hypocritical. The witnesses teach people that they “must get out of Babylon the great in order not to share in her sins”, but are unwilling to do that within their/your own religion which in itself has some very serious and damaging problems.
If God deals with people individually than why tell them to leave the religion they’ve known all their life? If you say ” because its false” then you have to explain why and then apply the same principles to your own belief system. Do you see how circular that reasoning is ?
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enuffsenuff says:
October 19, 2015 at 5:38 am
I don’t know which WT “Stirrring” is referring to, but note the highlighted sentence…, pardon?????? Are we living under kingdom rule???? Since when????
Gosh, you have to be careful when you read this stuff. Wasn’t it Goebbels who said if you repeat a lie long enough most people will believe it
Stirring Awake says:
October 16, 2015 at 11:03 pm
The below extract was in this weekends WT study (paragraph 8)
8. The privilege of living under Kingdom rule well worth any effort we make to cooperate with Jehovah’s organization and care for theocratic assignments. Of course, our circumstances may change with the passing of time. For instance, some members of the Bethel family in the United States have been reassigned to the field and are nowenjoying abundant blessings in other forms of the full-time ministry. Because of advancing age or other factors, others who were in the traveling work have now received special pioneer assignments. If we cultivate contentment, pray for God’s help, and do all we can in his service, we will experience joy and will receive many blessings even in these critical last days. (Read Proverbs 10:22.)
Coincidental timing or simply well planned? I think we all know the answer is the latter
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Chiafade says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:19 am
That’s a damn slap in the face to all of those who will soon suffer the indignity of being tossed out with no severance package, pension, or social security. But I suppose they shouldn’t worry because their pension is in the “new system”. Meanwhile the gb and their helpers get to live comfortably in their new digs. Oh and lets not forget the vague ” blessings” they’ll get for being “obedient”.
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Stirring Awake says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:11 am
WT August 15, 2015. Study 3 on page 19 – “Prepare Now for Life in the New World”
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Ted says:
October 19, 2015 at 5:40 am
Just a word in mitigation of PB. He’s mostly encouraging to
other posters, commending them for good comments
and has made many good contributions himself.
It just seems that his practice of taking pot shots at the
WT conductor has spilled over into here and have been
directed at people who don’t deserve them.
Lloyd has been very fair in asking him to cut down on the
confrontational style, and hopes it won’t come to the point
of blocking him. I hope so too.
I think we’re all concerned about getting the balance right
in our comments and this site along with all the contributors
has been a great help in that regard. One thing I hope I’m
learning is, that shooting from the hip without careful thought
accomplishes little and often just offends.
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ruthlee says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:07 am
Great post Ted thanks very well reasoned. Don’t we all get daft or hot under the collar at times. You are always a voice of reason and i like to read your wisdom and experience thanks . ruthlee
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Jake says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:20 am
Low self esteem is a terrible plight to bear. Often when impossible targets are set and failure ensues depression becomes inevitable and the vicious circle continues, add to the cocktail (your so called) imperfection and you have a perfect recipe for mental health issues and suicide.
You try and explain your position and emotions to the Elders, they tell you to study more, do more ministry, not think of yourself and pray more to a God you feel hates you anyhow, the depression will likely worsen, how could you be so selfish?, and it’s the very thing that depressed you in the first place, the cause is not the solution.
Many in the end turn to drink, cigarettes, drugs and/or abandon hope.
That is why sites with free minds are a healing to so many, a voice for the silent indeed.
Many live in fear of the Watchtower, God you can’t even wear a certain type of clothing now, guilt guilt guilt CONTROL from weak minded minds.
I always (personally try) to reason with an indoctrinated mind from the point of view of the indoctrination.
For instance I may ask a simply obvious question or make a gentle point such as, ‘ I’m glad that Armageddon hasn’t come yet, isnt it funny that before it does a delusion is allowed to take place amongst Christians, I wonder what that delusion and ‘the lie’ is? Of course God commends our of love and faithfulness to what is the truth, and we gain commendation and salvation through that, but who are these ones who send out apostle like letters about a presence of Christ and sit down in his temple?
Once questions start freedom follows.
I realise that it sounds easy but questions are the key away from the guilt, fear and control and the above scriptures gives the Christian a legitimate bases to begin to ask whatever questions they want to ask.
Wherever you questions lead you’ll always be free:-)
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Searcher says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:41 am
First, being overweight or smoking isn’t the subject of this article. Some people choose to over eat, some people choose to smoke, some people choose to drink too much, etc. etc. etc. for whatever reason that made them choose that path. Ranting at anyone for this is not going to help at all. Thanks Cedars, for nipping this side argument.
(Now back to out program.) I thought that what was said in the article about Orwellian control was spot on. “Provide loving assistance” is tantamount to browbeat the heck out of them until they shape up and fly right. These WTS leaders are insane!!! They might as well say, “Dress like a lady, but not too much skin dear. Be a man sir, but don’t grow that beard. If you go too far one way or another, we’ll give you a loving adjustment.”
As I have said before, a religion will try to spiritually guide you, but a cult will try to take control of your life in every way. This proves it!
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Chiafade says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:50 am
“Those pants are too tight! Report to the back room for reprogramming”.
Of course this is to be done in a spirit of ” mildness”. Guidance in the organization comes in the form of a choke chain that they get to pull when they are bored.
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Mashed Brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:08 am
May God have mercy on all your souls … In the name of the Father,Son & ….. Tony Morris!!
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Mashed Brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:31 am
@Ted . I am new to this site but what I have read so far your comments seem most knowledgeable , fair & complimentary towards certain ones that post here. I expect you have an intelligent wife who compliments you ?
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Jake says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:46 am
Toni (oops) Morris. . . Crippled inside, John Lennon.
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da' says:
October 19, 2015 at 7:53 am
Yes, I too thought what an amazing coincidence yesterdays Watchtower regarding reassignment of the Bethel family and special pioneers , ” reassigned to the field and now enjoying abundant blessings ” was that code to the congregations for “they’re all yours now, take good care of them for us , please !”
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Vidiot says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:03 am
This is getting to be downright FUNNY. 😀
Although, I’m surprised they labelled it as “disturbing” rather than “brazen”.
Maybe they’re working their way up to it?
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Concorde says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:40 am
Hi Anonymous,
What I would suggest is take the positive and reject the spin, inconsistencies and downright lies. Accept the promise of a New System for it surely is needed and believe not just in the things that Christ did but the kindly manner in which he did them and always standing up for truth. Accept the real spiritual gems and reject the Talmud of today’s Pharisees. Things are happening today and no one is sure of the reason. It could be that the WTBTS will fall through mismanagement and disillusionment of its followers or maybe, just maybe, Jehovah is tired of the hypocrisy and is really bringing matters to a head. We shall just have to wait and see.
Hope this helps.
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RetiredLE says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:52 pm
Concorde, thank you…encouraging, to me… also note;
Study Edition July 2013 – In which the new FDS arrangement is ‘explained’..
WT July 2013 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” pp 6 -What is the larger fulfillment of Malachi’s prophecy? During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hell fire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.
WT July 2013 “Feeding Many Through the Hands of a Few” pp 16-
Were the Bible Students in the years that led up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was still taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weed like imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.
WT – July 2013 – “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”
pp 10 – Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
pp 12 – In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics.
So this clearly states;
1) CT Russell and associates were NOT FDS –
2) Current self identification as FDS aligns with
Rutherfords teachings..
Why throw Russell ‘under the bus’? Answer;
WT – July 2013 – “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” box -“IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . .”
“Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? (WT answer) No.”
However further reading clearly shows..
There is an evil slave – same as the weeds among the wheat..
The ‘evil slave’ is clearly identified in the same context of Jesus following parallel illustrations in MT 25 -of ‘Five Foolish Virgins-who had no ‘oil’- integrity to truth. ‘Wicked and sluggish slave who received one talent’ – blamed others i.e. autocratic- ‘Goats’ “Lord when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?” – Self explanatory – Adv. Adv. Adv. – bring in the $- don’t help ‘worldly’ people in a practical way, they just need the Kingdom Massage.
All align with the current autocratic, self exulting, self serving ‘Talmud of Pharisees today’ – (Thank you -Concorde-) that grew out of the FACT that
Jesus could not have cleansed and appointed a FDS in 1919, as this would have been a conspiracy to further the false teachings/prophecies of Rutherford and assoc. – 1925, etc.
Also the facts show a fulfillment of 24:48,49 – “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying; and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the CONFIRMED DRUNKARDS…
Too much evidence of drunkards among the ‘elite’ to mention here. Beat his fellow slaves..that’s why we’re all here. (FDS = Beat les in tight pants?)
I enjoyed Concorde’s positive and hopeful outlook, perhaps this helps others see how the current FDS is fulfilling an evil and ultimately self destructive course. (by their own twisted ‘dogmata’). Weeds among the Wheat.
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rob says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:48 am
I have not read all of the comments in this section and I apologize if I am reiterating what may have already been said, but it appears to me that this is yet another licence for the elders to police the congregation and single out anyone who does not fit in with “their” interpretation of how one should dress and groom themselves.
The very scary part is that with this new “rule” the elders can pretty much cast away and castigate anyone they don’t particularly like and use their dress and grooming as an excuse.
Woman’s hair too closely cropped?
Man’s pants just a little too tight?
Woman’s dress just a little too short or too tight or maybe a little cleavage showing?
Man’s haircut? Is it to trendy?
How much more tyrannical can this religion get? How much mind control, and control of everything that a person can say or do can individuals suffer until they say “enough is enough”.
I guess they should call this the “cloning religion”, everybody dresses, talks and acts the same. Or else!
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Searcher says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:38 pm
Never thought of it, but you are right! The elders now have a ‘golden ticket’ to get rid of any undesirable they can by just labeling a man ‘too effeminate’ or a woman ‘too masculine’ or ‘too risqué’. An unscrupulous or power-drunk elder can ‘readjust’ or call judicial committee on anyone they don’t see as within their standards of being part of the organization. Not to mention some elder that feels bent to put people in what he feels is the right place, based on looks alone. This is scary for those that are still inside. Just like the case with rounding up fading members.
Again, this proves the cult mentality that surrounds the WTBTS. All the members trying to portray the leader. In this case GB members. The ones who don’t will get an whoopin’ until they do.
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Robert67 says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:50 am
Anonymous- I served as an elder for decades in a few Spanish speaking congregations, I truly feel for you – Please remember that your mom is in a cult, she is a victim of its Bible obliterating brainwashing. Focus on Christ message of love and do your best to buid others up in Christ, your sexual inclination is something you were born with, which God himself allowed. Don’t get sidetracked by people who use scripture to push their homophobic agenda. Jesus did not teach hate, in any way whatsoever, the only time he showed anything close to it was on those people who thought themselves holy enough to be judges of men. It would be great if all of us could stick to every last detail of scripture to perfection, but that simply isn’t a reality. I might not be Gay, which the bible asks us not to act on, but I do commit many other things it also forbids and still find my self loved by the Christ. You’ll know when the right time to tell your mother will come. Have your family worship night focus on Christ love and how he understood those who sinned and couldn’t help themselves, he in his heavenly wisdom knew more about the human heart than the sinful hipocrites that surrounded him. Stay in touch with your creator remember that the only times in the Bible when he acted in a manner that is perceived as homophobic is when mass rapes and tragedies were involved. He struck down many a people for numerous reasons before Christ arrival, in 1 Kings we read of a prophet servant of God who was instructed by God himself not to return from where he came from. Along his route he came along a man who claimed to be a messenger of God with a contradicting message to that which he recieved from God himself. Stupidly this first prophet accepted this human messengers words as something that overrode Gods instructions, as a result he was struck down eaten by a lion. Now there is a lot in that story which can cause us a case of culture schock, but the message is that if any man or men (GB) comes along and tells you to ignore what God tells you in his word and that they have the real instruction from God, RUN!
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
Proverbs 30:5,6
Revelation 22:18-23
Do not live in fear of being destroyed, if you still accept Christ in your heart and live with the love he tought you, you’ll be ok. Remember Mathew 25 says he himself has been deputized to pick out the meek from humanity. As long as you are truly trying, you cannot outsin Gods love.
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Eric says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:43 am
Robert67
Hi I agree with what you say, I have left the JWs after a long time. I have had a very colourful life in more ways than I care to mention.
I thought where do I go now, to whom do I turn. Well, no one is my answer. That is no man made organisation. I still believe that there is a God and his son and try to keep my life simple and honest this I find keeps my wife and myself happy.
Enjoyed your comments, thank you
Eric
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Ted says:
October 19, 2015 at 10:13 am
Thanks Ruthlee for your kind words, they are much appreciated.
And M,B, welcome, you’re among friends here. The formats
different but the literary style is reminiscent of another regular
contributor to this site. A close relative perhaps ?
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Mashed Brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 10:35 am
@Ted. Thank you for your kind comments. I have many close relatives… Something I have been blessed with !
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Robert67 says:
October 19, 2015 at 10:39 am
I don’t know, this new posters excessive use of lower case letters is very suspect. Obviously a mole. We know your in there Tony. Is all this payback against all those young Bethelites involved in Happygate?
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 11:41 am
@Robert67… Thank you for being so observant. I do admire observant people.& I absolutely adore lower case letters.!
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Robert67 says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:04 pm
That’s it, I’m running to go tell the elders and get a Sparlock stamp on my service report.
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:27 pm
@Robert67 .. I hear that a caleb & sophia stamp is of much higher value!
Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:15 pm
@Actigail Ur. You are a very very astute person my friend . You have a deep understanding of satirical humour. May I congratulate you ? As I am new to this site I am realising there are quite a few really nice people here & seem very friendly .You seemed to be quite supportive of a strange character called PB ? Some people didn’t seem to get his sense of humour? But you did . He seemed to be stimulate strong feelings in people but never a dull moment!
Life is about pushing people’s mind but also the heart sometimes to face controversial subjects especially when it is personal & contemplate opposing sides of the opinion?
I have read some of your comments which I don’t always agree with , but you are a fair,decent person & I do like the way you push boundaries & stimulate thinking!
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Summer says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm
I dont use caps as a rule of option and choice..i do cap occasional words for emphasise..or when my cellphone caps words all of its own volition..
And im not a mole
Just saying
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Tara says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:36 pm
😉
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JKL says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Dear Scotwm and all others interested.
I have read so many articles over the years where the Watchtower has aimed to reduce the numbers of the ones professing to be of the annointed, because the dwindling numbers was seen as proof as the end was near. I probably will not read the latest attempt of that. But does anyone know how many partook of the emblems this year?
Thank you all.
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Sister drifter UK says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:28 pm
I have been trying to research that very question!
I think we will not know until the 2016 yearbook is released- but my prediction is that before too long we will not be told the numbers of partakers and some lame reason will be given- the latest WT on this subject I think is leaving the way for this to happen.
In that WT it is said that those anointed absolutely know without a doubt that they have the heavenly calling but in another paragraph it says they may have a gradual realisation.
So which is it?
As far as I am concerned there were about 8000 partakers for years and years and years and then suddenly it went up.
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:01 pm
Once they realize it, it’s sudden. It may take years and years to realize it though, because the Holy Spirit sometimes only is operating on very low voltage, say 6 volts, but when your on g.b. it’s up around 440 volts and 3 phase at.that….sometimes when a person is first called they may confuse there calling with the silent feature of their cell phone or perhaps the humming of florescent light bulbs, but eventually when you see Kings and Queens you think, nope that’s me, I need a.crown too.
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm
And……you can understand what an over lapping generation is…most non-anointed cannot grasp that deep spiritual concept. Furthermore you realize that it’s impossible for you to lie, because every thing you say is the “truth” even if the facts seem to dispute that.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
By the way the numbers are for “professed ” anointed, there are only 7 anointed that matter, the rest just wannabes.
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:49 pm
One more comment on this,
truly anointed ones don’t like earthly things, like picking up dog poop, doing dishes or laundry, shoveling dirt, vacuuming carpets, changing diapers, ect….Earthly things, wearing crowns, passing judgment, being condescending…that’s more like it.
MimiLove says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Your right about the anointed not liking earthly things but that doesn’t explain why geoffrey jackson got remarried to a sister 25 years his junior…. Anyway my devout husband read in the january wt that it was no longer necessary to be of the anointed to be part of the governing body. Glad they cleared that up. I’m thinking about applying for the job now. :)
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:59 pm
I have not seen that, will check that out immediately, however, let me get this stright. .first, f.s.and little flock not the same, now f.s. no longer anointed bride of Christ ? I think we’re angling for “new” evil slave class
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Just checked it out, paragraph 16 of study article “we will go with you” or something to that affect. It’s pretty clear that the men who call themselves the faithful slave believe that they’re indeed Christ’s brothers and while there’s little confidence that the sister in your hall that partakes is in fact really of the anointed class, we have absolutely no reason to question them.
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:49 pm
@JKL .. 14,121 took emblems last year.
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JKL says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:47 pm
We think alike Sister Drifter UK. I think I have noticed that the number is made public later and later every year. Now, I am not sure any longer if it fits with their interpretation that the their should be zero annointed at D-day, but it sure sounds like it with the latest article on the subject. But this is sure, counting the annointed in an effort to count down to the end, has failed.
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Sister drifter UK says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:13 pm
I am wondering if the numbers will go up every year until we reach 144000 and then the end will come.
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Robert67 says:
October 19, 2015 at 2:50 pm
Well if even .05% of the estimate of Christian Martyrs is correct the goose is cookedhttp://www.christiantoday.com/article/70.million.christians.martyred.faith.since.jesus.walked.earth/38403.htm
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:28 pm
@Robert67 .. July 1951 watchtower stated in 96 C.E. That 40,000 Anointed Christians were slaughtered by Emperor Domitian … In the Proclaimers book over 52,000 were taking emblems in 1935 & there are 14,121 in 2014 partook . In the book of Acts 3000 were baptised in one day & 5000 another day. Plus in the First Century if according to Watchtower figures maybe thousands of Anointed Christians were slaughtered by Emperor Nero in 65 C.E & in 98 C.E the Apostle John was on Patmos & there were Tens of thousands of Christians expanding throughout whole of Europe & Asia Minor then the numbers exceed greatly way over 144,000 so the figure cannot be literal. A 92 year old Anointed Elder who used to cook me lunch when I was pioneering many years ago & was imprisoned in a British prison in 1914 showed me what Russell believed in the 1917 Finished Mystery Book & that the Great Crowd were going to heaven!!
All the GB know the figures don’t add up & 8 million JWs are being ripped off .. big time !
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Robert67 says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:36 pm
Great points, I would add that Russel emphazised the annointed were all complete by 1881. Unless these 7 wonders in Brooklyn are ancient Scottish sword wielding Highlanders fighting until there can only be one, I don’t see how they made that cut off date.
Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:43 pm
You forgot to add the overlap to the equation. When you do that no more problem, you see it’s 144000 overlapping each other so it might be 288,000 or 566,000 get the picture
Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 3:46 pm
Seriously, if 24 Elders =144,ooo, then why laugh
Alan says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:33 pm
I, for one, am thankful for Tony’s original tight pants tirade and the subsequent fallout. It’s caused a lot of JWs to snap out of their trance. I know because they tell me so. I’m fading away from the organization little by little, and trying to help others who are going through the same process, just as I’ve been helped. Tony’s comments, and this new C.O. letter, are a ‘fly on the wall’ glance at the twisted thinking of the GB. I’m so glad I’m not under their mind control anymore.
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Doc Obvious says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:35 pm
As the Bible instructs us at Psalms 49:13: “This is the way of the stupid ones And of those who follow them, who take pleasure in their empty words. (Selah)”
We have to remember that people do follow these stupid ones on a daily basis. The Jehovah’s Witnesses love to hear the empty words of Anthony Morris III.
I have long said: the higher up the JW ladder you go; the more stupid the individual gets.
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Tara says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:51 am
Stupid is as stupid does.
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:03 pm
@ Donald duck, Sister drifter , Joe smith,Finn sawyer… Apologies to anyone I missed.Enjoyed reading your comments about that awful character .. what was his name?? Brainy or pickled or some weird name like that … glad you piled in one after the other to make your comments so obvious how you felt.I have just read some of his terrible comments !! I am so so shocked at what some people say sometimes! Things are getting worse ; it must be the last days of this wicked system ;you know people being fierce , headstrong ; puffed up with pride ; disloyal? ; lovers of money.etc
Well… Keep up the fine upbuilding comments.
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:18 pm
@Robert67 … Yes you are right that Russell did say all the anointed were collected by 1881 in one of his earlier Volumes of The Studies in the Scriptures .
I remember having long conversations with this 92 year old Anointed brother who cooked me lunch every week as I was the only one in my congregation Regular pioneering in those days.. I remember doing 13 hour days in the snow on a Saturday as the hour requirement was 90 hours back in 1981 . Ice on the inside of the windows of my bedsit but what toughened me up was my Karate teachers training years before I came into truth ;the 5 mile runs in bare feet on pavement & constant honing the body to endure bouts of combat so Regular pioneering was a doddle!
Today it is so easy standing by a trolley as some of the pioneers do for 8 hours a day drinking coffee!!
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danman says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Lloyd, it appears that some prolific posters cannot take a hint. I suggest that if anyone, under any name, continues to try and make themselves the center of attention, they should be blocked.
I truly hope that my enslaved relatives (daughters, sisters, and over 100 close relatives) have found your wonderful blogs. It is tedious to read through many of these superfluous, snarky and simply not funny posts, all in the name of seeking attention.
Get rid of anyone who subverts the conversation away from why we are all here. This should not be used as a private chat forum.
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SwimmingWild says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:24 pm
@Robert67 @Sister drifter UK @’B et al
I realise this is a side comment to your discussion of the 144,000, but your link to the 70 million Christian martyrs need some comment
Christianity is an extremely unpleasant organised religion, yet it likes to portray itself as subject to martyrdom, as victims. When the Roman Empire moved towards Christianity the blood really started to flow, and, the following link asserts, continued flowing for 1000 years.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/DarkAges.htm
Monty Python sums it up in Burn the Witch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU
Tight Pants’ disregard of the common humanity amongst the flock is on the same spectrum as the persecution meted out by Christians to pagans snd heretics over the centuries. And still now in Africa.
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg
SwimmingWild
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:36 pm
@ Swimming wild .. Burn the witch … Aha .. Monty Python fan you must have a sense of humour like that wicked poster I have heard so much about ? what was his name ? …. brainy pickle or some crazy name like that .. some strange people out there?
Enjoy your comments … A thoughtful person indeed & I mean that !
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SwimmingWild says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:26 pm
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/DarkAges.htm
A Terrible Repression
“As soon as Constantine gave official recognition as a religion, the Church started to harass both Christians and non-Christians who were not in agreement with her ideas.
“Such behaviour became a tradition. It lasted and progressed for more than a thousand years… The apex of her intolerance eventually became epitomized by the Inquisition. This latter, in the Spanish Inquisition, terrorized the whole of Europe for more than five centuries.
“Her claim of being the ONLY holder of TRUTH, the fountain spring of her historic intolerance, has never been revoked by her. She has maintained it with ever increasing resolution and ferocity until our own days. All her past actions bespeak of the constancy of such immutable intolerance. Since the fourth century C.E. her conduct has been patterned on nothing else.” (from The Vatican’s Holocaust)
The monks had unlimited powers and these inquisitors swarmed all over Europe like theological hornets, setting up tribunals wherever they appeared. For centuries all hopes and dreams died; people were in utter despair of life – religious controls were everywhere.
Fear and uncertainty ruled people’s lives -fear of the Canus Dominii (Dominican Monks) and the Franciscan Monks accompanied by their “Jacks” – the men who did the torture with benches, ropes and iron hooks, ceiling hooks, rough iron implements and fire.
SwimmingWild
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:51 pm
Boy, and I thought those were the good old days. Back when people had real morals and there was real peace and nobody got sick, you know , before 1914
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Are you sure you got your history right?
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Robert67 says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:34 pm
The problem being the word “religion”, which the Bible never mentions. Jesus did not teach a religion, he tought “the way” to live our lives in a manner that showed love foremost to our creator, but also to our fellow man. Anything added to his teachings is blasphemy. He tought his disciples to present the good news of this message of love and atonement with God through Christ, if a person refused they were instructed to shake off their sandals and move on. Nothing in there about return visits, forced conversions, crusades etc… Everyone here is shaking off the results of placing first the instructions of religious leaders over those of the Christ in their lives.
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Tara says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:47 pm
‘No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 5:18 pm
@JJ … I have looked back at the posts regarding the awful things this poster called brainy pickle said…
You JJ ..I really have only great admiration for and your strength of character in your supportive post about being overweight’for this strange character ‘PB ‘ ..
If I had to fight any physical battles I know you are a person I would know I could trust & fight to the bitter end !
I am a relative of this PB & he has asked me to send you his eternal thanks & much gratitude.
I don’t know how old you are or even what gender but that is irrelevant as it is your inner strength I am impressed with.
Sincere thanks
Mashed brain
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 5:44 pm
@ Ruth Lee,@’Tara&@ Shanti … you lovely ladies … You have also impressed ‘PB’ in your attitude & character … He just text me from his phone ?to let me know !!
@ Garrett ! I Really like your sense of humour! You make me laugh ! Fat zombies or what ! Great comments by you
& @ Last of all if not least @ JB Reezner .
You were trying to keep the peace on all sides… I can appreciate that … Not an easy task when this strange character whatsisname ?? … Nutty pickle or something is letting loose with both barrels !… You did well !!
Thank you both & anyone else I forgot !
& Thanks to @ Cedars as he gave PB quite a bit of Time & many posts to run loose before stepping in which was quite generous considering PB did run riot for a long long time & the guidelines were flagrantly pushed to their limits???
I think that is most of the text I received from PB ?
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:16 pm
I actually missed all the excitement, but don’t think an apology can get p.b. off that easily, nope I am sending over the meanest 3 man committee you’ve ever seen, they have a crisp new “shepherding ” book, unopened in fact. And a “disfellowshipping” s-77 already filled in. Forget about any 7 day appeal process, no way! Signed brother Love
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:30 pm
@Pow .. Ohhh… Goody .. That S77 form … About time PB got one of them … It will make a full set .., to go along with the disassociated P45 form ( UK residents will know this)!!
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:35 pm
@Pow … PB has just requested for the 3 man committee…. Excelsior, Finn Sawyer & Donald Duck with Joe Smith as back up with Sister Drifter uk for Coffee making???
PB thinks he is going to Lose the case as I (Mashed brain ) has used too many Capitals in this post???
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Pow says:
October 19, 2015 at 6:41 pm
Just remember no recoding devices allowed, this is strictly off the record.
Excelsior! says:
October 20, 2015 at 6:36 am
Mashed Brain/Pickled Brain
Really? A member of a Judicial Committe?
I am not offended by bad comedy, but I reserve the right not to have to laugh.
I think that you have rightly been taken to task over your rant about weight and instead of apologising like an adult, you have attempted a feeble stab at comedy with a pathetic alter ego.
Please learn from this experience, Mr Brain.
I do not find judicial committees particularly amusing. I had to experience one myself, and I would never engage of support one in any way.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
michele says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:19 pm
So let me get this straight, the congregation is 100% against people looking gay, and now even against those who confess to being gay “but not acting on it”?
However, somehow, people who like to have sex with defenseless children are put on “reproof” only to be moved to another congregation so that they can commit their disgusting crime again? Is this really the place my beautiful mom should be? A person who is so kind and gentle and who wants to live forever on a paradise earth. A person who cried her heart out because I told her finally at the ripe old age of 47 years that I will never set my foot into another Hall. A person who begs me everyday to speak to the elders, the same ones I see at the bar and the liquor store on a regular. Their troubles seem heavier than mine at times. I can’t help to think it is because they know that something just ain’t right about this organization anymore. I want to wake my mom up to see these atrocities, but her life was so hard as a teenager, and she is a victim to the lies and misguidance. I will never forgive this organization for being Apostates and actually having the nerve to say that everyone else are Apostates. It is so sad! So disgustingly sinful to stumble people on their path to having a relationship with God, with their MESS!
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Mashed brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 11:59 pm
@michele.. Your comment is excellent & especially your logical argumentation of the hypocrisy the way the jw organisation handles child abuse.
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tiger123 says:
October 19, 2015 at 8:58 pm
@ Many weight commenters
Overweight?
Understood, sadness and depression can change a persons habits and where or who they go to for comfort. While most of us recognize this as a fact, the Bible makes no room or exception for these things. It was written to preserve the best foods for the priests and the Kings. Over eating in any form would necessarily be charged as a sin worthy of capital punishment. Look at North Korea and it’s leadership, the people struggle for a bowl of rice while their “Dear Leader” eats buffets that would make Las Vegas blush. The people live in darkness and information control.
I recognize the limit of my view and my personal scope on things, however it must be stated that their is rampant prejudice in the organization that is acceptable, homosexuality, hairstyles, clothing (tight pants etc.) while the issue of gluttony is totally ignored. I do not agree with disfellowshipping anyone, however to categorize in any way obesity as special and needing understood requires that homosexuality be understood and consideration given to those who are gay or who wear clothing styles we may not like. I am heterosexual, but I do not feel it is ok to judge someone who is gay or to make decisions as to what any couple practices in their bedrooms, however Watchtower does.
For those who suffer, no one agrees with their torment. However I must admit I have both situations in my family. One of extreme obesity due to sadness and the other due to greed. One who suffers depression and being very overweight. Her situation is heart wrenching and deserves love and help. The other is selfish and greedy even abusing his wife and greedily eating more than his share on almost every occasion he is with someone, bragging about how he always gets his. He has ate so much on occasions to receive T-shirts and free meals for gluttony. For me his a pig. Someone may try to find an excuse for this situation, but greed is greed and in all forms an ill to society. Sadness and depression are far different from greed and we should open our hearts to those who suffer in this way.
If you are a Christian consider this one thing. The Bible makes no distinction saying, a person who eats too much is ok if he is depressed, or being gay is ok because you feel depressed or some other reason. The Bible fully endorses intolerance and bigotry. I made a comment earlier in the discussion that I hoped would open people’s eyes to this fact.
Am I flawed? Yes! Does that stop me from trying to make the world a better place? NO!! I once believed that to do good I had to share the Bible with others. It was and sometimes still is painful to realize the Bible does not provide solutions, it provides problems. It’s proposed wisdom, in fact provides only confusion and hatred of what is different than the arbitrary rules it provides. The Bible even goes so far as to claim it alone is a source of light. The Bible is the problem with its dogma and unfounded supernatural claims. It will naturally attract egomaniacs and controlling fanatics. It’s Curator Constantine was a bloodthirsty murderer who sought to realign Europe with this monotheistic book. Creating a 2 party system of Church and state. With the church promising what it could never deliver, an after life. Allowing the state to require people to give their life at the demand of the King for whatever he saw fit. Has anything really changed? Different day same garbage.
JWs having self a righteous power hungry GB member, Tony Morris is no surprise. Quite the opposite, it is to be expected.
Right now most of us enjoy something that has led to a better world, free speech. The ability to speak our ideas and be heard. The right to disagree and agree. By challenging bad ideas we come up with new and better ideas. In the end JWs do not have that freedom. How tragic!
In the end, the only real hero in this world is the one who knows their is no payment of after life and still chooses to give their life in service of a better future for all.
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Summer says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:09 pm
Im not overweight
Depressed yes
Overweight no..i dont consider size 8 on a 5’10” frame overweight
Just saying
Reply
Walter Reise says:
October 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm
Will you guys please shut up about weight. I’m so tired of it. You guys go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it. Enough already we all get the point. Shut up about it already. God damn it you guys.
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Walter Reise says:
October 19, 2015 at 10:14 pm
Most of you guys have nothing to offer me. I’m no longer reading any posts. Most here are shallow. Goodby.
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ruthlee says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:25 am
Come back walter and say something to put the nanas back on track please. ruthlee
Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:07 am
@tiger123 . You have really,really thought your points through so clearly & so succinctly that the logic of your reasoning is brilliant…, absolutely brilliant !
My relative …. brainy pickle ??… has advised me to leave my comment at that ; apparently … ‘discretion is the better part of valour !! ‘
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:18 am
You mention North Korea and as Steve Hassan points out, that is the region where the C.I.A perfected the art of brainwashing through religion after WWll, which he goes more into detail on different podcast. Coinsidently about the same time the Watchtower started implementing its outright cult control and the beginning of shunning within the Jehovahs Witnesses which was once described in their literature as an ancient evil Pagan practice. The writing is on the wall Daniel chapter 5, this organization is being exposed for its outright arrogance against Gods word.
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JKL says:
October 19, 2015 at 10:35 pm
I am aware that we went way of the topic discussing the Watchtower 144.000 doctrine. Perhaps someone will write an article, because so much “wild speculation” has gone into it. I personally do not think that anyone will go to heaven, but I am sad that Watchtower for years has pressured others to think they are not of the annointed.
Well, when anyone gets to know how many professed to be JW annointed in 2015, then please post it. Perhaps an insider in Brooklyn knows.
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Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:33 am
@Ted … I have looked over prior comments when a few others were sticking the knife into Brainy pickles back ,but you Ted made some complimentary comments about PB at that time when many were jumping on the bandwagon … You shone out as a beacon of restraint& were reasonable so a Big Thank you for that… That is the text I just received from PB ???
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Last man standing says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:29 am
This fat discussion is to me one thing that has to be targeted. ( yes we must take ilness and depression into consideration, and then sufficiant help and support should be given amongst congregation friends and also direct to proper help) but now its ignored and thats not right.
But also eating crap food like Mc Donalds, products filled with E- numbers, sugerfilled bread, soft drinks, and sweet candy by the bags. You dont have to be fat to treat your body wrong and not like a tempel.
What do we think makes the worst harm to the body, one cigarr each half year or this shit everyday? Cancer is spreading like wild fire and most people just dont put the food puzzle together. But if one get caught with puffing on one cigarr every 6 months its goodbye, but you can have a big stomach so the jacket cant close and feed children poison at a daily basis. ( yes it is proper poison).
These issues have not been talked about more than a article maybe to say that its important to exercise. Put pointing fingers at easy areas like smoking , drinking, etc. are repeated to death. Yes if its done to excess we have a problem , given. But no, its also the everyday choices that a bigger concern. But that flyes under the radar.
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:48 am
Comment to JKL i posted earlier that we need an article on 144,000 to thrash this out because I really really really (no capitals) think gb have this concept totally wrong and i want to hear others point of view. If we all ask Cedars and team to consider this as that infamous wtower 2016 need some serious addressing.As i have said before they have to keep the punters in so i think they will announce any can call themselves anointed not just the greedy elite or the nutters! Time will tell but this i think is probably the hottest topic to all thinking christians and i would love the athiest take on it too because in my experience athiests are the most logical of all of us. Anyway thats it. Hello mashed pickles hope you continue to join our merry band. ruthlee
Reply
Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:46 am
@Ruth lee . Thank you Ruth for welcoming Mashed pickles to this site . Fascinating group of people here ? … All sorts.. Different personalities makes for a lively? discussion . I must say it was capital??? of you to be so welcoming!!!
Reply
anonymous says:
October 20, 2015 at 2:29 am
As sick of talking about obesity as some are, I think it is very germane to the topic of this discussion and I will say why.
If the Society is going to pick out people to disgrace them by telling them that they are not fit to represent the Society in service to God, they do need to take a look at themselves in the mirror. Being obese is only about thirty pounds overweight and yes Pickled Brain, it is just as dangerous to your health as smoking. We all know that.
The problem is hypocrisy, not the rank and file but those making that decision for the rank and file.
What business do those overweight men who are judging for God decide that somebody who is maybe effeminate in nature or masculine acting in nature, not good enough to represent the Society? They are just as much guilty as those they are judging if they just thirty pounds overweight?
It is the hypocrisy of the whole thing that makes it so unforgivable.
You will have men who are fifty pounds overweight on a committee, deciding that a man or a woman or a young girl or young boy is not “fit” to go in service for those stupid reasons that the Governing Body has in the letter that Lloyd has above, possibly destroying their self esteem for the rest of their life but they walk away feeling self-righteous.
What this letter points out is how stupid the Governing Body is. I know a woman who has acted “butch” her whole life and she is the sister of the presiding overseer and she loves Jehovah. She is about 75 years old. Will her brother tell her that now she has to start acting like a lady now or can’t go in service? I think not. But he can turn right around and destroy a young person’s self esteem for the rest of their life by telling that person the same thing.
I hope that any elder who has this letter read to them can see how inquisitional it really is and wake them up to the reality of what they are involved in.
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Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 4:45 am
@Anonymous… Nice that you mentioned this strange character Pickle brain in your comment…. He seems to have made a minor ? impact on this topic .. Hmm !!
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:39 am
As a former pos Elder I can tell you that while your holding the golden ticket of being the plantation territory overseer you are mostly blind to common sence. The only thing that shook me awake was knowing by heart what Gods word was on any given matter. I believe that all of these elders who ignore Gods word and give it a second place to instructions from the 7 Sith Lords in Brooklyn will be dealt with by God himself. “I was just following instructions, they made no sence, they were soul crushing, faith killing, unchristian, cruel and outright sadistic, but, but, but, but, but, but, but………”
Reply
GEM says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:32 am
@Anonymous: Here is the U.K. it is popular to refer to your B.M.I (Body Mass Index). According to my diabetic consultant… for my height (176cms) I should be 120lbs- max 160lbs (11st 7lbs [avoirdupoid])
I managed to lose a lot of weight, but at 13stones (182 lbs), my colleagues said I was looking so gaunt and ill, I looked as I had final stage cancer.
Two very important elements are missed in assessing someone’s ideal weight. Some (including the consultant I referred to), do not believe in low Basal Metabolic Rates. In which case, why do we have Mesomorphs, Ectomorphs and Endomorphs. Honey, I only have to look at item 52 on the Chinese menu and wake up with the same waist size!
The other major element is Bone Density. Every wondered why certain racial extractions excel in specific sports? One of my tutors at University wrote a fascinating article on the subject for the Atlanta Olympics some years back now. For Example: Caucasians with a bone density index of 1.0 with glide through water like a dolphin. Asian extraction at 0.8 on the index, tend to float out of the water and Afro. Caribbeans, at 1.2 tend to sink naturally down into it.
Put an Asian on the horse and bars in gymnastics, and see beauty in motion… put a Jamaican or Kenya on the running track and the stamina just surges ahead.
I come from “Boxing” stock, when honed and fit, look like a Bouncer at the local night club. I have been known to separate a sea of black suited, dark shaded heavies with my (R.I.P) 110lb, mum on elbow.
Tony “tight pants” would split his crotch stitch if he saw me in Field Service now.
My ripples sent out other messages….and, the ripples themselves were totally natural.
Just a word on overeating though… calories in versus calories out. If you aren’t burning it off, it is going to store.. and, that is not good for the health, Tony.
Reply
anonymous says:
October 20, 2015 at 4:21 am
Hi Gem, I am five foot four inches and my ideal weight is between 120 pounds and 135 pounds. If I get to 165 pounds, or about 30 pounds overweight, I would be considered obese. That is not my words but the medical community. They consider it as more likely for heart disease etc. So, my point is, is that it is hypocritical of the Society to someone that they can’t smoke because it’s dangerous to their health and yet be obese themselves.
The same thing goes for telling somebody that they aren’t good enough to represent the Society in service for some reason like they are flamboyant or butch. They should not judge unless they are willing to be judged. It is what it does to the person who is being judged is what bothers me so much. What is that going to do to them after that? Most kids feel labeled for the rest of their life when it only takes one mean comment from another child, let alone from an adult.
It is not safe for a human to not have any body fat. If my body had no fat according to the charts, I would weigh about 90 pounds, which is ridiculous. All it would take is for me to be sick a week and I could die because my body would start eating up my vital organs to stay alive.
What I think is so disturbing about this whole thing is the hypocrisy. They have no compunction about destroying someone’s self esteem and walk away feeling like they are pleasing God, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
Reply
Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 4:37 am
@Gem .. Knowledgeable comment Gem . Good analysis of the situation ! .. Especially your last sentence . … Not that I am an expert on this topic?
As you know a bit about the Noble art of boxing I found when I fought an opponent you would look into their eyes & you could either see fear,anger,coolness,determination, bravery,etc … The eyes reveal a lot about a persons character & emotions … Very hard to hide that.
But here on the internet we cannot see a persons eyes so PB told me the way to reveal a true persons character here is to use different tactics that seems accusatory,aggressive even & like in martial arts,boxing etc you will see how & in what manner they reply will show the true character of an individual .Then you see who your true friends are or who are more balanced.
PB is a student of MI5 tactics & avid reader of John Le Carre spy novels where tactics & emotions & the way the mind works are just or even more important than physical attributes as you will testify as a boxer … Not always the biggest & strongest will win.
You are a thoughtful person & give good comments .Keep up the good analysis!
Reply
GEM says:
October 20, 2015 at 5:37 am
@Mashedbrain: Sawadee krap, Sir! It is all in the mind. Even the GB knows that, as they languish to hold control. Your thoughts are on point.
Reply
Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 5:48 am
Thank you Gem!!
Reply
Excelsior! says:
October 20, 2015 at 11:34 am
Reading spy novels? Really? A student of MI5 tactics? Oh dear!
How about reading some books on common courtesy, addictions and other topics?
I do not wish some ridiculous individual twisting my psychological buttons, thank you. How utterly ridiculous!
It’s quite easy to tell if someone is on the up and up. Read their comments over time, and you will see roughly where they come from. No rudeness required! Further, you can engage in a polite debate with them! Again, no rudeness required!
Pretending that your rudeness was a cunning ploy reeks of desperation to me.
anonymous is one of my favourite posters here. She has contributed greatly to the ethos and level of debate.
It’s time to step up, sir!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@Excelsior .. PB has just text me to say he loves Jean Shepherds catchphrase ?? …. Do you know what it is ?? ..’Excelsior you Fathead’ … I have just told PB off for this disgusting insult!
PB has been attending night classes for … Tactfulness !! But it is only his first one!
PB has told me in an earlier post you said you are overweight;you smoke & you have suffered mental issues???
In your last 2 posts to PB you are showing the signs of losing the plot … I hear Prozac is quite effective for someone displaying your characteristics … In your comment you mention psychological buttons… PB has obviously pressed all of them???
PB says he loves you very much ??& because he cares for you & your fragile mental state ?? His advice is he has a friend in Broadmoor who may be able to help!!
PB is panting & eagerly awaiting your reply!!
As the Yanks say … Have a Nice Day!!
What was that about ? ‘Step up , Sir’
Reply
Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 3:40 am
Pickled Brain / Mashed Brain
Now you are commenting on my mental state and prescribing Prozac?
Just what characteristics am I showing?
You say you have a friend in Broadmoor who can help me?
Peter Sutcliffe murdered ladies with brutal violence. Is this the “friend” you are referring to?
What did you hope to achieve with this comment?
I hope that you realise that it is you who is rapidly losing any respect that you once may have had, sir.
This truly is not your finest hour, is it?
It is fortunate for you that I am stable and robust enough to take your truly pathetic attacks with equanimity.
I hope that you do not send others over the edge with your insensitive and demeaning comments.
As for me? You have clearly identified yourself as someone with absolutely nothing to offer. I shall simply ignore your pointless comments in future.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
JB Reezner says:
October 20, 2015 at 9:12 pm
Fair warning: If you’re not part of the PB issue and are irritated by the mention of it, then please move on to another comment. Thank you.
Well, I’ve already secured my spot outside of the circled wagons, so I might as well wrap my part of the issue up with some final thoughts.
First of all, to the issue of my own motivation in all of this: I’m personally not even slightly sensitive about my own weight. I would benefit from losing about 20 lbs, but couldn’t care less if somebody thinks that’s funny. I live in the deep South, USA. The food here is just too damn good.
My problem was with the total lack of tact and understanding on PB’s part when replying to Anonymous, and then the inexplicable, belligerent, cornered-rat backlash that ensued after he was calmly and respectfully called out on it. And after I put up a couple of conciliatory comments, he did say a nice thing to Anonymous, but then came back and started up all over again.
The other thing I want to mention is this: I’m seeing PB and a few others making little jokes about trying to not use capital letters, which may possibly be in reference to Lloyd’s demand for PB to stop using them so much. But Lloyd didn’t delete PB’s very last comment because it had too many capital letters.
I don’t think many here saw that last comment. I did. So just for clarification, understand that it was a bizarre hyper-rant that was the most venomous one yet, and addressed more than just obesity. It was clearly packaged in such a way to be a challenge to Lloyd to remove him from the site, with him seeming to want to go out in some kind of insane blaze of glory.
I believe in second chances, and had no problem with PB getting one. However, based on his recent comment to Excelsior, it looks like he’s already possibly on the verge of unraveling again.
Rather than patting him on the back and winking at his bizarre behavior, his real friends would better serve him by urging him to work on being more respectful and even-keeled in the interest of the peace and health of this site, which means so much to all of us.
To those groaning over this comment, understand this: I DON’T WANT to comment on this again. Don’t jump into the middle of this with a plea for “everyone” to “just let this go”, as an answer to my comment. If you want PB to stay here, help him to stop needling people like we’re all children on a playground.
Reply
Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:01 pm
@JB Reezner … I totally agree with you that it would be immature to keep on commenting with PB like children in a playground …,
But could you answer one serious question?
Why are you supporting such a pompous ,self righteous twit like Excelsior?
I thought you had more sense than that!
Mashed brain says:
October 21, 2015 at 1:08 am
@JB Reezner… I hope Excelsior is reading your comments& takes your advice.. I am glad you told him off for behaving like a child in the playground !
I mean ?? Grown adults trading childish insults … I wish Excelsior would grow up .. Ah well maybe one day ??
JJ says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:58 am
You know, I am kind of being shunned by former close friend of mine, who is obviously very gay, just not acting on those impulses. He loves being flamboyant and he has had a lot of success in the Witness World making friends and being popular. Up till now, even the hard-core JWs and the stuff older ones, have had to accept him and leave him alone. I think that will all change now!!!
I’m not one to wish ‘bad’ on my friend or the many others like him in “The Truth” but I think that they will have some cold water thrown on them now by elders who are zealous to do ‘the right thing’. This will have a very adverse affect on these poor brothers and sisters who were making a pretty good compromise between being a JW and still enjoying some freedom. They also added a lot of spice and fun to that stuffy old cult. This witch hunt should be enough to get them out (to freedom) and make those staying in that much more miserable and bored.
Good work Tony Morris! You’re a real genius!
Reply
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider →
The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
avatar
Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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558 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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pearlsB4swine says:
October 20, 2015 at 4:40 am
I can’t imagine how the elders would police such things as brothers with effeminate mannerisms and sisters with masculine hairstyles.
This kind of directive to elders makes me think they are desperate to assert control in an area where their control is slipping.
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JKL says:
October 20, 2015 at 5:03 am
Dear ruthlee and others.
I have had the same idea of asking Lloyd to write an article on the subject of the 144.000. It is a really crazy subject though. I am of the “70-80 years generation from 1914”, meaning I was a teenager at its peak, so I lived it. Later I have studied the subject to be sure of how crazy it was and is. The counting down, now up, of the annointed, the “peace and security ” era and “the generation” was all a dangerous cocktail of “wild speculation”. And I fell for it.
Well, I would welcome an article on the subject. I am just afraid that it will not be read by too many who needs an awakening. But few also count.
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:47 am
As Jesus stated, he didnt come for the self righteous, but for those of us who are cast out and beaten down by man made amendments to Gods law. If the article is prepared it will be read by the ones that matter most, those brave souls who survived the cult and made it here.
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boonfoxx says:
October 22, 2015 at 5:03 am
jwfacts.com has well rounded information that topic.
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GEM says:
October 20, 2015 at 5:26 am
@Anonymous: Hey! Cut through the mist…I was actually bolstering your view with scientific fat. But, storage of fat is a simple equation of calories in and calories out.
You are absolutely right about the unqualified assertions made by the GB Muppet Show. Any qualified Puppeteer out there that could get a “Spitting Image” (all UK TV viewers unite here) to get an online show going? Just a passing idea.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 20, 2015 at 5:47 am
There are a few elderly sisters in our hall…who have whiskers…and a couple of them have a severe hair cut…one of them is a pioneer….I know a few young brothers who are very aware of thier appearance and are fairly flamboyant in dress and grooming…at least two of them are Ministerial Servants…I think as long as the young ones are children of influential elders they will be fine…and that older sister is an elders wife…so I guess the masculine manner will be ok….cynical I know but thats the way it is.
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Enuffsenuff says:
October 20, 2015 at 6:15 am
Anyone wonder why the idea of the overlap kicked in regarding the “anointed GB”? The reason is relatively simple; they don’t believe what their master (Christ) said in Math 24 which says “this generation will not pass away until all these things occur.”
If you try and apply the notion that a generation= must equal 70 or 80 then it becomes a trap for young players. As most of you know there are people who have passed 70/80 with ease. So it is not a rule.
So how does the “generation” that Jesus referred to in Math 24 be understood and has it passed away? That is the big question.
If you have access to the Awake magazine 1988 April 8 there you will see and article discussing this, and I might add that I don’t think the GB read the literature anymore, because you will see that the article discusses the Greek word “Genea” and its implications.
So lets reiterate what Jesus said respecting this generation when he said “this generation WILL NOT, (capitals for emphasis) pass away until all these things occur.” The questions are twofold, first, who comprise that generation, and second, are they still alive?
As that Awake mag notes, with some very good reference works (not WT sources), that generation comprises of people who were contemporaries to an event, namely the beginning and duration of an unprecedented period of trouble on the Earth. I know from 45 years ago that Witnesses argued over how old you had to be so that you understood what was happening in 1914. That view was a mistake, and a big one (I fell for it too). So the criteria for that generation at that time is not whether you understood, But WERE YOU ALIVE, (again capitals for emphasis), meaning that if you were 90 at that time or were a newborn babe and were alive,your age was not the criteria but whether you were alive, you were part of that generation. That is the first part.
The second part is this are they still alive? YES (for emphasis) if you check Google for people older than 101 years, which I did some months back, there is around 1 million world wide still alive, I even saw a news article just last week about a 105 year old Japanese man set a new world record for running in his age bracket ( I had to laugh, how many could there be) and a friend just sent me an article about a 112 year old. But time is running out which ever way we think and we will see what will happen and probably sooner rather than later.
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Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 6:34 am
@Anonymous… You seem to be an intriguing person with a reasonable level of intelligence.Could you be kind enough to give me your personal opinion on Münchausen Syndrome as we had a sister in our congregation who either herself was ill or family member was ill with one dramatic illness or symptoms after another to draw sympathy to herself & is still ongoing years later as she is a desperately unhappy person because of the trauma of her dad divorcing her mum at the vulnerable age of 10 & then her husband who was an Elder committed suicide Whats your personal opinion whether the Truth & JW organisation has a disproportionate number of people like it in it that have deep emotional issues???
& maybe some Ex-JWs have Münchausen Syndrome because it doesn’t disappear once someon leaves the truth? … Would you say?
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anonymous says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:33 pm
@mashed, do you know what Munchausen Syndrome is?
Do you perhaps have two personalities, one called Pickled Brain and the other Mashed brain?
Are you mad at me for some reason?
When I first made a comment about my son being overweight, I was not calling anybody out in particular on their comments about the Governing Body being hypocrites.
I agree wholeheartedly that the Governing Body are hypocrites (trying to extract a straw from other’s eyes) when they pick on people for tight clothes and the way they act if they don’t act feminine enough of manly enough when they have a “rafter” in their own eyes with overeating.
When we comment here, we have to keep in mind that not everyone commenting here is of perfect weight and comments like that are very cruel and insulting. We have to remember it’s the Governing Body we have a problem with, not each other commenting here.
Some of us might be considered overweight and we do not deserve to be called names and gluttons. A lot of us have children or relatives who are overweight too and making hurtful comments like that are cruel and thoughtless. We all know how to lose weight by cutting down on calories and exercise. If it was that simple, there would not be such a problem with obesity in the United States.
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Pickled brain says:
October 22, 2015 at 7:57 am
@anonymous . Thank you for your comments. You make many good valid points . Looking back at my comments you are right I was harsh & I am willing to be corrected .
The reason I asked you about Münchausen Syndrome because we had a sister in our congregation who was always saying she or her children or her husband had this illness or this or that problem & everyone made such a fuss over her but years later they found out she was creating these imaginery situations to garner attention & I went out of my way to help this person for years & when we found out it was devastating because we were all so trusting . I have to be honest & to say I jumped to that conclusion about you , maybe wrongly & it made my blood boil !.
But I have realised if a person has Münchausen Syndrome they deserve understanding & kindness as well . The sister I am referring to in our congregation which I later found out her parents divorced when she was young & her husband who was an Elder committed suicide, so understanding is the key.
& yes you are right that all on this site have a common goal & that is to highlight the dangers of being drawn in to a cult .
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Excelsior! says:
October 22, 2015 at 8:55 am
anonymous,
An explanation but no apology.
I wonder if I will get an explanation for the torrent of abuse that I suffered?
I am not holding my breath for an apology!
I have noticed a concerted effort by this individual to divide and conquer which has spectacularly failed to achieve its purpose.
Praising so very many for comments so insightful that Oxford University Dons would hand them honorary Doctorates whilst heaping abuse on me about my weight, my mental stability, my moral dignity and my principles.
I do not see how anyone could see you as an attention seeking person. Your comments, over many months, have been consistently insightful, balanced and informative.
That this individual saw this in you is far more revealing about their character than yours.
Here we have an individual that seeks attention by bizarre punctuation and mediocre humour; and when his mediocre humour spills over into a vitriolic crusade against obesity, and he is politely called up on it, launches into a vicious diatribe against me.
I am sorry that you had to experience that at such a trying time for you. My heart goes out to you, anonymous. I lost my father to cancer a few years ago, and so I can empathise a little bit with what you are going through.
I hope that you and others on this site understand that I wanted to stick up for you, because I don’t think that anyone deserves the rudeness you received.
I am off to swallow a whole bottle of Prozac and visit my good friend Peter Sutcliffe who has been a boon, he really has!
After all, I have proven over many years of commenting on this site that I am nothing but a self righteous, fat headed, weak willed hypocrite. It’s true, I’m constantly being very rude to people…..apparently!!!!
I hope that you receive an apology from this individual, and not just another explanation.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Mashed pickles says:
October 22, 2015 at 12:24 pm
@ Excelsior .. I think you are losing the plot. I think PB is getting into your Psyche.What do you think PB?…. Hmmm . Well as I have been going to night classes for tactfulness ? .. My teacher ,Mrs Mashed says I must learn to apologise more often ! …. So PB says to you … O Great One .. Sir Excelsior ..I am so sorry for calling you a Fathead!! ..I meant to say ,’I am so sorry for calling you a Self Righteous Hypocritical Fathead’
Listen to Gameisover post whose advice is to concentrate on fighting the GB not between ourselves .. Please it is so childish !! Act like a grown adult !
Anyway I hope you accept PBs most humble apology. Lots of Love Pickled brain
anonymous says:
October 22, 2015 at 6:43 pm
Pickled brain. To imply that I had Munchausen was uncalled for but thank you for trying to make amends in a backhanded sort of way. If I had space, I have an awful lot to say about my life, than a very heavy book could hold and my experiences are not unique to most people here. We don’t have to make up stories here to be believed and we aren’t telling these experiences to garner sympathy but to help others learn from what happened to us so they it doesn’t happen to the next person or we tell our experiences to put our arms around others who have suffered and are suffering because of this religion. These experiences are common in our religion, which you must realize by now, don’t you?
I saw some of your other comments that Lloyd deleted and you do have a tendency to jump to the wrong conclusions quickly and say things that you must realize are not politically correct? You realize that don’t you? I have done it too, but fortunately, they don’t get published. Be thankful when they get caught before getting published.
My own husband will make mean comments about people’s weight when he himself is quite overweight. Sometimes when we hear comments like that coming from another person, we don’t want to be mean to the person and cut them down at the knees and make them feel foolish about what they just said, but we try in a kind way help them to see that comments like that can hurt others’ people’s feelings.
We all make mistakes and say things like that without thinking but in the end it really is a kindness when someone tries to help us learn from our mistakes and not do it in the future. It may make us feel bad at the time, but we all make mistakes and we should be glad when we don’t go around with big green boogers hanging out of our noses in public, if you get my drift.
Thank you so much Excelsior for sticking up for me. I feel you are my protector and friend and I appreciate that so very much!!!
Searcher says:
October 21, 2015 at 9:52 am
Bottom line is; WTBTS, GB, and WT leaders are all a bunch of con-artists! The problem is they are not getting better at it, but worse. Did you happen to see the David Splane tap-dancing session on JW.Org? He should have been wearing a straw hat and cane with that soft-shoe routine. He was a hoot trying to back out a convincible ‘new light’ story to their latest failed prophecy. Most anyone would see that and then conclude it was complete BS and a cover-up.
I face the fact that this organization is a destructive cult. Always has been and always will be. (Hope that’s not for long.) They lie, twist facts, make up stories, threaten, coerce, mislead, mentally torture, charm, etc…. to get and keep membership. I am so glad that I’m no longer associated with this cult!!!
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Tara says:
October 22, 2015 at 6:49 pm
Ok I’m not the sharpest knife in the draw but my view on ‘generation’ goes like this…. when I was born there were people alive… my nanna and grandad, uncles, aunts etc… there were people born after me… cousins, children, grandbabies… whilst I am alive this is my generation. I try to think of it as overlapping circles with me in the middle. Now most of the older ones who were alive when I was born are dead… I have moved to the side and i myself am one of the older ones… My children are in the center. when I die, they will move over and their children (my grandchildren) will be in the center… does that sort of make sense?
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JJ says:
October 20, 2015 at 6:39 am
To my friend Pickeled Brain/Mashed Brain; I wanted to say thank you for your kind words. I just saw your comment this morning. I am very happy that you would consider me a person that would stand up for a friend and I hope that I am that man.
To everyone that got ‘put off’ with the comments/advice about weight or being too fat I’d just like to say that I believe it was all said with the best intentions. This line of commenting or ‘thread’ got started, I believe, because the Bible doesn’t say too much on tight pants or hair cuts but it does make comments on glutinous habits, laziness and it makes several direct comments on fat people (Eglon comes to mind). Now I’m like Lloyd and I don’t really believe in the Bible anyways so I don’t care what it says. But there are many scientific facts proving that eating too much and not moving around is very bad for you. One lady made the comment that her son is obese and he is also single as well as depressed. Of course, no one here knows who he is so we are not poking fun at anyone, but if you could encourage this young man to be more active and to lose weight then he would feel more confident, have a more positive attitude and his health would also improve. It can be as easy as stopping drinking sugary drinks and going for a walk or bike ride every day. There are many Meet Up groups online and I would encourage everyone to take a look at this wonderful way to meet people and to get active. There is a film called Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead that is very encouraging. It shows a couple of obese men who completely changed their lives by simply drinking vegetable juices.
Apart from the evil cult we are attempting to escape from, there is the evil food industry out there that is killing us with carbs and sugar. We are outgunned because the foods today, like fast food and processed food, shouldn’t taste as good as it does! There are scientists studying how to add sugar and salt plus many weird chemicals that trick us into overeating. The health care industry loves it because we get cancers, diabetes, week bones and decaying brains from all of this crap they we are eating.
So, although maybe some things were not presented in the correct manner, what was said was not wrong. Instead of being self-conscious about our state let’s encourage each other to eat better and to be more active!
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Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:20 am
@JJ .. Well .. Thank you JJ for your heartwarming comments . Much appreciated! And I must say very constructive & helpful advice for those who need it ..I have had a text from PB & he says he is attending night classes in tactfulness ??
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 21, 2015 at 4:13 am
I think you will find that some people who are obese have far deeper issues than those that can be answered by a Juice diet…..also being obese does not mean you are not intelligent enough to guage the relatiobship between calories in and excercise and calories shed…I know your coming from a good place but I really didnt think I would be coming onto a site that judged anyone on how they looked or what they believed…I thought this was what we were trying to escape from…it sounds incredibly judgmental and very much like an Awake magazine of a few years ago on obesity…I have 2 friends … intelligent women… who have terdible trouble with weight issues and thier problem is not easily solved with just a quick fix solution it can take time…..and I have always loved the humour and wit of pickled brain…it has cheered me up many times…I just feel he we must stick together and realise our common aim…its to stick together against this evil judgmental cult….no in fighting about beliefs or image….lets stay on track and show the unity that this cult lacks.
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Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:50 am
idontknowwhattodo,
I sympathise with your point of view, but I do not share it. I respect it but I do not follow it.
It would be lovely if we could all get along and never fight. Lovely but unrealistic.
I shall never shy away from politely calling out rudeness and offensive behaviour. I will not tolerate them.
We need to avoid the same trap that the WTBTS fell into a long time ago – that unity is worth any price. It is not.
I will not support, condone or excuse rude and abusive behaviour directed to me or anyone else who posts here.
If I at times slip into ad hominem attacks, it is only after they have been directed at me first. I try to avoid them when possible.
I had some truly sad news this weekend. I am ok, but it really upset me.
To come onto this site, and read offensive comments directed to people like anonymous who I really like and respect was not conducive to a happy day!
Suffice to say that I have taken your words into consideration.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Mashed pickle says:
October 21, 2015 at 8:32 am
@Excelsior …. You are a Hypocrite & a Self righteous one at that… You say you are not rude… Well go back & look at what you said to Mashed & Pickled brain!
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Gameisover says:
October 21, 2015 at 10:23 am
Pickle brain: you are doing it again! Stop the name calling.
I have very much enjoyed Excelsiors’ comments since I started reading Cedars blog. He is witty, deep, loving and friendly.
Can we stick to exposing the watchtower cult? And to cheer up one another so we can heal a little faster?
Mashed pickle says:
October 21, 2015 at 8:29 am
@Idontknowwhattodo.. Thank you for your very very kind comments about my humour & wit. & I am glad it has cheered you up at times!
You my friend have Guts & Courage in plenty as at the moment I am not the flavour of the month, maybe the year?
The Watchtower organisation makes people follow the crowd for Fear of being different …
You have shown an inner strength & kindness ,so a big thank you for that!
Take care .
Pickled brain
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Shanti says:
October 20, 2015 at 6:42 am
To all, please note “anonymous” and “Anonymous” are two different posters.
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almost anonymous says:
October 20, 2015 at 6:48 am
I think Job 42:16 explains how long a Generation is. Seems simple to me.
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eyes opened says:
October 22, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Hey good point Almost Anonymous! That is simple. I will be referring to that scripture. Regards
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Doc Obvious says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:24 am
The Truth about Spanx
Spanx is a hosiery company created by Sara Blakely in Atlanta, Georgia. Sara is a businesswoman with a net worth of $1 billion USD. She is married to Jesse Itzler. She has 3 children. Sara is a hard working woman. In 2006, Sara launched the Sara Blakely Foundation to help women through education and entrepreneurial training. In addition, she became the first female billionaire to join the “Giving Pledge” and donates at least half of her wealth to charity.
Web Site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Blakely, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanx
Sorry Anthony Morris the Third, the idea that tight fitting clothing is created by the Homosexual community is a false statement. An outright lie. As you can clearly see Sara Blakely is active in the community trying to help people and make them feel good about themselves. Unlike yourself, Anthony, she helps people and does not degrade people.
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:35 am
We heterosexuals never think about sex, therfore seeing a person of the opposite gender in tight fitting clothes is shocking and appalling. In fact those Mormons might be on to something with their modest underware that must be wore at all times. And swimsuits, please don’t get me started, really do you have time to go the beach? It’s the last days for crying out loud, no time for that.The only swimsuit you ever really need is for your baptism and you’ll want to wear at least one or two layers of street clothes over that.
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:49 am
And who needs special clothing to exercise in, really, just walk faster between those not at homes, or push a preaching cart further, and you get all the exercise you need all while wearing your formal bethel approved attire.
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TonyToniToneMorris1+2 says:
October 20, 2015 at 9:20 am
Don’t let me catch you near water without an XXXXL T-Shirt down to your knees. What will people think. If I see so much as one man nipple, help me governing body, I will sell your hall so fast….
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:11 am
Is that above the knees or below?
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:18 am
They want the women to all end up looking like Sister-Wives dont they…………Polygamy next?
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San Diego says:
October 21, 2015 at 12:00 am
He probably feels threatened by a successful woman, as that doesn’t fit into the JW mindset that all females should be yeswomen for the male gender. It is unthinkable that a worldly female should be more successful than a Governing Body member! (Or should I say more successful than the entire Governing Body put together.)
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San Diego says:
October 21, 2015 at 12:02 am
That was a reply for “Doc Obvious”.
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Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 4:44 am
Doc Obvious,
Outstanding comment!
Thank you for highlighting yet another error from our favourite GB member, Tight Pants Tony!
One would have thought that the “spirit” directing these “Christians” would have the power to fact check?!!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Doc Obvious says:
October 22, 2015 at 11:46 am
You’re welcome, Excelsior!.
I learned from grade school to college to examine all the facts before you speak or write something. I never take anything someone states on face value. Many things that are spoken about in New York are complete nonsense.
Other nonsense areas include:
The Watchtower construction projects are considered “sacred service”. Really? Buildings can reason about Bible topics. I don’t think so.
The Governing Body claiming to be the very “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class”. Yes, having over a 1,000 cases of child abuse gets you the famed “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class” designation. Hardly!
Construction is the most important activity a Christian man or woman can engage in. We will need it in the new system. So, we need Electricians and Plumbers in the new system? We need huge homes to store all of our stuff (Computers, TV’s, Books, Cars)? Don’t think so. Nice try.
Simplifying our life is to build a resort near a lake and live an epicurean lifestyle with a remote control lake. At the same time tell publisher slaves to stop thinking about material assets. Don’t think so.
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ruthlee says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:59 am
Notice how we quote the society says this blah blah and that is the trap they have got all this stuff around their ears. Its more often than not the pious opinion not the Biblical stance. In fact i would go so far to say it’s always the pious opinion now which is why none of it make any sense at all. A point from sunday past there is this attitude in my kh that we all have to come up to speed before the end .As if the almighty has to wait on a few jdubs to get their haircuts and pants right before he brings the big A!.It is so arrogant and deluded.On the anointed issue (sorry keep bringing this up) I think we should take bets on the number for 2016 Mines around the 21,000 mark any other ideas?
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RoberT67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 9:59 am
All across the Bible, from the building of the Ark, to the Israelites in the desert, to Jesus number of days in it, and after resurrection( many others to mention a few) everything points to 40 years no more no less for a Biblical generation. Breathe easy friends the proof against these false prophets is in the biblical proportions. (Literaly)
Deutoronomy 4:2
Deutoronomy 12:32
Deutoronomy 13:1-10
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
1 Samuel 8:4-7 GB over Christ?
Proverbs 30:5,6
Mathew 24:24
Galatians 1:6-9
1 John 5:1-21
Revelation 22:18-23
The fact that 8 million people are still in despite the abundant proof of apostasy coming from Watchtower just goes to show how powerful their brainwashing methods are. These poor souls will start a mass exodus as soon as they have access to the overwhelming proof against the watchtower.http://www.jwfacts.com englishhttp://www.extj.com
http://vigilandoazion.blogspot.com.es
For Spanish friends
Please share these life saving tools anonymously if you must with all your friends on social media, heck count the hours as life saving hours to make up for the brainwashing we once played a part in.
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Rober67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:01 am
Why are my comments dissapearing? I’m sticking to the rules
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:14 am
Their not disappearing, .their overlapping.
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Chiafade says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:29 am
I’m going to say 18000. If they are around long enough I wonder what their going to do when the number reaches 145,000?
I agree with you about making God out to be so petty that he wants you to start wearing MC.Hammer pants before Armageddon. This organization has TERRIBLE ethics and yet God is willing to ignore that because of the trousers the men wear and the “butch” haircut of the women. Biblically speaking there is a mention about the “braiding of the hair”. I’m surprised they haven’t jumped on that.
Tony Morris: “hahahahaha that’s Ridiculous! The governing body isnt unreasonable.”
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:35 am
All across the Bible, from the building of the Ark, to the Israelites in the desert, to Jesus number of days in it, and after resurrection( many others to mention a few) everything points to 40 years no more no less for a Biblical generation. Breathe easy friends the proof against these false prophets is in the biblical proportions. (Literaly)
Deutoronomy 4:2
Deutoronomy 12:32
Deutoronomy 13:1-10
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
1 Samuel 8:4-7 GB over Christ?
Proverbs 30:5,6
Mathew 24:24
Galatians 1:6-9
1 John 5:1-21
Revelation 22:18-23
The fact that 8 million people are still in despite the abundant proof of apostasy coming from Watchtower just goes to show how powerful their brainwashing methods are.
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:37 am
These poor souls will start a mass exodus as soon as they have access to the overwhelming proof against the watchtower.http://www.jwfacts.com englishhttp://www.extj.com
http://www.vigilandoazion.blogspot.com.es
For Spanish friends
Please share these life saving tools anonymously if you must with all your friends on social media, heck count the hours as life saving hours to make up for the brainwashing we once played a part in.
Reply
Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 10:36 am
So, here’s a question, just making sure I’m keeping up with new light.
No effeminate qualitys allowed for men,
But we’re required to shave our beards, does this mean were now required to grow more back/chest hair to compensate?
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 11:07 am
As Lloyd said on JWpocast.org this is all taken out of the book of Opinions. I guess only the GB and elder class have access to this life giving Elixir. As far as that other book, The Bible; it actually forbids even the trimming of your beard. Again you have to remember that these 7 Sith Lords probably don’t have so much as an associates degree in basket weaving amongst them. Their “interpretation” of scripture will always differ from anyone who has been contaminated with that secular educations critical thinking and reasoning capabilities. Another thing that they completely ignore is all of these sisters in Spanish speaking congregations that look like the cast of Lilo & Stitch that despite their indigenous Montesumas long lost love child appearance (I’m one so I can say it) insist on bleaching their hair blonde, same goes for sisters of African heritage, weaves, blonde hair, colored contact lenses, and these 7 idiots are focusing on my properly fitted Brooks Brothers suit?
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 11:21 am
Notes taken from Jwfacts.com
1)Men naturally grow beards, being the design of God.
2)The Bible provides the example of Israelite and Christian men with beards, as a guide for us to follow today.
3)The Mosaic Law forbade people from shaving, highlighting God’s feelings against men being clean-shaven – see Leviticus 19:27.
4)Shaving is effeminate and a homosexually inspired, androgynous fashion.
5)Shaving has pagan roots. It was likely first practiced by Egyptian priests, and later promoted by Alexander the Great. (See wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving) During Christian times, Christians wore beards whilst the pagan Romans, such as Pontius Pilate who authorized the impalement of Jesus, were clean-shaven. (w05 9/15 p.10)
Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:55 pm
Be careful, don’t insult basket weavers.
Holly Chu says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:08 pm
They haven’t said anything about braiding of the hair because that’s in the Bible, a document the GB seems to be unfamiliar with.
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 11:01 am
Ruthlee, let me break from my normal sarcasm to spend a moment or two in the land of harsh reality, as to the memorial partakers, the number that is given each year is already edited. Let’s say you bring your bible study and their children to the meeting and low and behold they partake, they will not be counted, however what if you partake, we’ll that’s up to your local elder body to decide,it’s not automatical. Now further up the organizational ladder you go, do they apply the same discretion? You be the judge.
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ruthlee says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:00 pm
WHAT! you have enlightened me.Thanks. so glad i partake at home in private to my God without conscience or accusative eyes of the oh so holy jdubs.So glad i don’t have a human judge.So then, Pow all along this has been “doctored”in that elders judge who is acceptable or not. You know i reckon there will be not one vestage of truth left in the end. I’m not disappointed at your comment just another nail in the coffin.Bring on all exposure for sure. ruthlee
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Tara says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:31 pm
So POW what you are saying is that the ‘cup bearers’ make note of who partakes and then at an elders meeting they decide if that person is worthy to be mentioned as a true partaker and thus to be counted… Shame on them!
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:50 am
Basically, there’s no formal policy in place, but definitely a consistent pattern, furthermore you may recall the story “after the fact ” of a certain African country were something like 30% of the publishers partook, but, I don’t remember that spiking the yearly averages.
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Actigall Ur says:
October 20, 2015 at 11:43 am
@Everyone- Guys I’m ROTFLMAO at these comments! (And I mean that in a good way! 😉 ) Robert with his Lilo & Stitch comment had me going for 20 minutes! My colleague had to ask why I was crying so hard and told him it was a NSFW insider joke! LOL And Pow with his growing more chest/back hair to compensate for the clean shaven beard is insanely awesome! I think the funniest jokes are the closest to the truth… which shows how backwards this organization is! LOL
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CM Legnetti says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:31 pm
I attended a Kingdom Hall meeting 3 years ago & I walked in wearing my TNT security uniform since I went straight from work to the Kingdom Hall
Well instead of being greeted & warmly welcomed & the usual hello’s & how are you’s. All I heard was ” where’s your suit, what’s the matter you couldn’t change before coming to the meeting
I chose to ignore the hateful comments
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CM Legnetti says:
October 20, 2015 at 12:38 pm
I believe dress & grooming should be done tastefully & respectfuly however each person has their own likes & dislikes regarding this area, no
One has the right or should even have the gall to judge another’s attire, unless it totally overboard. People who are mature minded & respectful Don’t need to be counseled
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:16 pm
Exciting news, and you heard from me first, the November broadcast will feature Anthony Moris III, as a buff Arnold Swatchnagger type “manly man” and he’s gonna kick our pansy ass’s in shape. No more girly men wearing yellow socks. Now give me 20, all the way to floor…
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Amy says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Maybe Toni Morris gets turned on by the men wearing tight pants and it’s too difficult not to act upon his own fleshly desires. Lol… Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
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Ocma says:
October 24, 2015 at 6:01 pm
I’ve thought the same thing! The man is finding it hard to fight his urges, so he’s blaming all the tight pants wearing brothers.
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Amy says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Maybe Toni Morris gets turned on by the men wearing tight pants and it’s too difficult not to act upon his own fleshly desires. Lol… Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
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anonymous4 says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:45 pm
Being such control freaks, I have considered for a long time that maaybe the watchtower is linked to other super-secret global controlling organizations like the illuminati and the bilderberg group. I know it sounds like conspiracy theory stuff, but you have to look at the parallels. There is control from dark smoke filled rooms by a very small group (“oligarchy”), manipulation of the masses to follow a specific agenda toward a certain goal (total control of all humans, *after* a culling of as much as 90% of the world’s population) and the similar terminology: New Order/New World Order. Some believe these plans go back over a century, saying the elite initiated World War I so they would have an excuse to create a universal government (the League of Nations…United Nations), with the support of the Banks who funded both sides. I believe that while the watchtower rails against the United Nations (as the scarlet Wild Beast of Revelation), it secretly supports it.
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anonymous4 says:
October 20, 2015 at 1:54 pm
I forgot to add, isn’t it interesting that the watchtower really started gaining momentum around World War I? And how they manipulated years and numbers in the bible to come up with 1914? Did they already have a certain foreknowledge that something would happen in that year?
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Pow says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:34 pm
I would say that you’re giving C.T.R too much credit. Frankly He was throwing dates out at the time all over the place, later, followed by J.R.,when not one date worked out, they went quite for a dozen years then they slowly rewrote their own history over and over again, and walla, today it’s told like they had this thing all figured out. Nothing could be farther from the truth
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Mashed brain says:
October 20, 2015 at 3:44 pm
As this a Survey site & PB has called Excelsior .. ‘A Fathead’ …, could we have a Survey thosefor … Excelsior is a Fathead ( Please vote ‘A’).
Excelsior is Not a Fathead ( please vote ‘B’)
If someone could kindly take the count as I am in the UK & going to be as it is 20 minutes to Midnight & I’ve got to go to work tomorrow .. I will log on in the morning to see the results !!
Sleep well Excelsior my fellow brother in arms against the Watchtower . I am sure everyone loves you here & the vote will be in your favour ???
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Truth is the Watchtower went through a messy divorce from the ISBS which was led by Charles Taze Russel he left a board in charge of everything pertaining to his version of the organization. J.R.Rutherford and his followers expelled any Russelites left over and committed apostasy from their ISBS religion and started what would become the Jehovahs Witnesses. J.R.Rutherford exploited what Russel had started to live a life of wealth and luxury. To his credit he kept a distance from twisting anyone’s arm with his point of view. It was his replacement that would start a governing body, with a shunning safety net and put in place cult like agendas in the organization. All are guilty of going beyond what is written and handing out false prophecies left and right. The Bible instructs Gods people not to follow or fear anyone who claims God is going to do something and nothing happens. This is the way the God of the Bible said you’d be able to identify a false prophet. Most Jehovahs witnesses are ignorant of any of this because from the very first day of their very first “Bible study” they study every type of book hot off the press, but the Bible itself. They literaly choose “the bible for dummies” (What does the Bible really teach) over the actual Bible itself. They remain clueless as to how, from day one they are brainwashed with the agenda of this Stock invested, United Nation sponsored printing company. These “witnesses” for God worship a group of seven CEO’s in Brooklyn, NY
Deutoronomy 4:2
Deutoronomy 12:32
Deutoronomy 13:1-10
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
1 Samuel 8:4-7 GB over Christ?
Proverbs 30:5,6
Mathew 24:24
Galatians 1:6-9
1 John 5:1-21
Revelation 22:18-23
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Robert67 says:
October 20, 2015 at 7:28 pm
For the newbies to the site a little edumacation goes a long way. Make the time to learn your real history.http://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc
Matthew says:
October 20, 2015 at 8:57 pm
Robert67, It never made sense to me that Charles Taze Russel would be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses if he was alive today or that JWs originated from Charles Taze Russel because of his teachings. This is what I love about this website. I enjoy this. It balances my mind. That’s awesome.
Summer says:
October 20, 2015 at 9:07 pm
I was in a cordial conversation with the lady selling me a new phone, no less about this very subject.
I will call her “Sally”.
Sally told me her elderly mum is a JW. She told me that her mum said her congregation was “being cleaned out”. Multiples of people being publically shunned because of dress issues. People are snitching on people right and left. Sallys mum called what she was witnessing “a witch hunt”.
So Sally and i were talking, rather, she was crying about it. She told me about the pill incident, then this “tighty whitie” incident makes her feel like her mums life is in danger. Her mum said “its like a rabid dog feeding frenzy”.
So
Her boss walked by us. Sally told her she is teaching me how to use my new phone.(wheew) it worked !
We googled “spandex inventer”. This is what we found;https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Shivers
The most important concept we got out of it was Joseph was NOT gay.
It seems to me the GB is trying to spread lies and innuendos in a sad but terrifying attempt to “scare” their lost little sheep into continued blind and dumb submission.
So scary !
Sally said she was going to show what we found to her mum.
YHWH hates liars…but it seems to me that the GB freely tell lies..
So i conclude that YHWH hates the GB.
Just saying.
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Summer says:
October 20, 2015 at 9:40 pm
FYI
Sally WAS showing me hiw to use this new fangled phone..Sally wasnt lying.
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Summer says:
October 20, 2015 at 11:07 pm
Josephs wife, if she is still breathing air, and their children should file a defamation of character and liable against mr so scared of things tight…and the GB.
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Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:09 am
Folks,
Perhaps there will be a repeat of the WTBTS copying the Scientologists?
They have already stolen the idea of a broadcasting channel from them (much good it has done them!) so maybe it’s time for a Tight Pants Tony approved JW uniform, based upon the SeaOrg?!!
I can picture it now! Roman army inspired attire! The bible does speak of spiritual armour, and you’ve got to admit, it’s distinctive! Long, flowing robes for the sisters, and stylalised “armour” for the brothers! Imagine the luxuriant purple robes of the GB!!
They could get the sacked brothers and sisters from the Bethels, and transfer them to sweatshops to make them for free!
They could declare New Light and say that every JW has to weave cloth for Jehovah at home, and send bolts of cloth to Bethels!!
Of course, they would emblazon “JW.Org” over every surface!!
The Hari Krishnas have their distinctive robes! The Scientologists have pseudo Naval uniforms! The Catholics have their sumptuous regalia, and unmistakable Nuns!
Come on Tony! You have been able to parlay an abusive rant against homosexuals and modern styles into yet another control over eight million lives! You are on a role! Please, Tony, ask your Big Brother Jesus if he has some tips! Oh, I forgot, he isn’t speaking with you anymore, is he? Oh well! I’m sure that you will be able to find a fashion designer to help you create your masterpieces. Oh, but wait! All clothes designers are homosexuals!
It’s a tough assignment, Tony, but I’m sure that you can succeed!
This is truly disgusting. The well connected will not even be bothered by this, whilst the weak ones will be castigated over their choice of clothes. Choosing our clothing is one of the ways we try to distinguish ourselves and display a little of who we are. Now even this is being taken away.
As usual, the WTBTS are shooting themselves in the foot. Any who are exhibiting a personal flair are now much more likely to leave. After all, where did they get these “worldly” tastes from? There will be a race to the bottom, as far as style goes. Men will buy bland, baggy suits and forgettable ties. Women will cover from neck to ankle with voluminous, unflattering, colourless ensembles.
Carry on, WTBTS! This is another brick removed from your tower.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Mashed brain says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:09 am
@Excelsior
How does it go? Hi folks!!
I have just had a word with my Big brother …??
Who is called The one & only Pickled brain!!
Me & Pickled have had a deep deep conversation about your latest post about clothing…it took many long hours of debating but Pickled thinks you would look good in … A Superman Outfit????
I have counselled Pickled about his rudeness to you … I mean he has been going to night classes on Tactfulness but he has only had 2 lessons… Early days as his rudeness is quite ingrained!! .. Personally I think you would look great in a Battyman outfit??? … What do you think Excelsior ..
Perhaps we could have a Survey on it? .. Didn’t get many votes on the last Survey on whether you were a …. Fathead??
Anyway you did say in your last Post to me you were going to ignore me…!! Shame , but knowing that you are a pompous , self righteous twit ! .. I bet you can’t stop yourself responding ?? OHhh gone on In the words of Clint Eastwood … Go on Punk !! Make my day!!!
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Mashed brain says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:11 am
@Excelsior … Sorry forgot to sign off..!
Peace be with you !
Pickled brain
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Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:39 am
Folks,
Another thing to think about.
How far are they willing to press this? Can someone be disfellowshipped for being inappropriately dressed for “Field Service”? How many warnings would someone get before action was taken?
Rather than reaching out to “Satan’s world” the WTBTS seek to withdraw from it, replacing even the variety of different personal tastes with one homogenous, bland image from the 1950s.
I knew some sharp dressers when I was a JW. I wonder if they will respond to this “loving direction” and give up their cool togs? I hope not.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Robert67 says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:58 am
I’m sure it will come down to getting dissfelowshiped or publicly reproved for being disobedient to daddy elders.
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 8:04 am
Maybe we could have a service theme song, like m.a.w.’s Y.M.C.A., except it would be J.W.ORG., and we could all wear our loose fitting uniforms with our flat soled (modest) shoes, rolex watches and a lapel badge with a smiling Caleb, “it’s fun to go to the j.w..o..r..g
…yea….the..j..o…r..g…
.
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 8:19 am
Hey, I’m going to copyright that,,,instead of calling it the borg…….it’s the jorg.
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Average Joe says:
October 21, 2015 at 9:07 am
@POW
If by M.A.W. you are referring to Men At Work (who sang “Land Down Under”) then you’re mistaken my friend. It was in fact “The Village People” who sang YMCA.
I couldn’t let that slide as I’m a huge music fan; sorry!
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 9:27 am
Good call, yes, yes, the village people, there wasn’t by coincident 7 of them?
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ruthlee says:
October 22, 2015 at 2:12 am
THe village people…The collective village idiot! ruthlee/ruthless
Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 9:29 am
Average Joe,
Quite right, sir! It was indeed those bastions of heterosexuality The Village People who recorded that excellent tune.
I wonder if folks in the SeaOrg dance to “In the Navy”?
We want you, we want you, we want you as a new recruit!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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JB Reezner says:
October 21, 2015 at 1:38 pm
Sorry, I said I wouldn’t post this again, but if you guys are going to just come right out and talk about them, then how could I not? http://imgur.com/EGl3x6c
Okay, starting now, never again…
Mashed pickle says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:51 am
@JB Reezner . I know you are reading this & you are an astute person … We have had a few good laughs in the past & You are a decent & kind person . I can tell that from the way you handle people.My humour isn’t to everyone’s taste, I know. Whatever you do in life after moving on from the Watchtower organisation I expect it will go well for you & you will succeed .
We have all been hurt badly by this Organisation,so one thing we can agree on is that the injustices of these 7 GB men … Midgets?? Need to be exposed.
Wishing you well!
Pickled brain!
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Mashed pickle says:
October 21, 2015 at 8:37 am
I have just replied to @ idontknowwhattodo . This person is a very kind & lovely person !
Pickled brain
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 10:02 am
In regards to the earlier discussion with ruthlee and tara concerning the partakers count, it opens up a bigger discussion even related to the topic at hand.
There are policy letters that are circulated to the service desk at the branch level , however, below that level everyone else is only left guessing what exactly is the standard by which decisions are being made..think Australia commission, the Jensen letters concerning use of blood, medical majahana and so on…then there are the letters cent to c.o.’s as is the case in point, concerning dress and grooming and before that use of appointed brothers who allow their kids to go to college, ect….the Elders never see those letters, only discuss them. Then there’s the b.o.e. letters to Elders, not to be shared with publishers…and so on….thus, alot of policy that effects every jw is never actually seen in print. ..
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Robert67 says:
October 21, 2015 at 10:16 am
Because, CULT.
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 10:32 am
I will even go one step further, based on anecdotal evidence and say that if your in the service department your given information and told not to even share it with other bethel departments, same is true with legal, writing and so forth…..if your in i.t. dept. You see nothing and hear nothing, confidentiality must be maintained at every level.
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James says:
October 21, 2015 at 10:25 am
My only question is this:
When are we all going to go to a convention Tony Morris is speaking at, and dance around him in tight pants while he’s doing his celebrity meet and greet and lunch!?!?
I’ve been working on my rump shake, and I think it will get him second guessing his sexuality, and before long… he’ll be an apostate, too!
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Summer says:
October 21, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Twerk him in florescent hot punk spandex bike shorts
Just saying
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Summer says:
October 21, 2015 at 2:21 pm
Pink
Sheesh…i can ruin a good joke
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 11:12 am
In regards to tm3’s rants….I will say this, when you cannot fix the big problems then attack the little one’s, it’s low hanging fruit. The r&f, then feel like something is really getting done, even if it’s just a war on yellow socks, tight pants, spanks and getting a higher education and gives us all something to talk about and feel guilty.
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Robert67 says:
October 21, 2015 at 11:16 am
Loosen things up a bit, this youtube ex-jw activist asks, What is the worst congregation you ever attended?
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Dominic says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:58 pm
Robert67, Let me know when the next video is out. I don’t know what to look up on u tube. That video is funny and I’ve been to congregations just like those. Sometimes the truth is funny. Made me think of bad congregations I’ve been in. Thank you for that video.
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eyes opened says:
October 21, 2015 at 11:29 am
Hi JKL,
According to Jesus words in Matthew 24 the chosen ones were all selected in the first century. Jesus said “this” generation (meaning the generation of his disciples) would see the things prophesied in chapter 24. We don’t know for sure when Revelation was written. When Revelation speaks of 144,000, I am of the opinion that it suggests a complete number not necessarily an exact number. References to the great crowd and the holy ones both being before the throne also suggests they may be the same group as well. So what this means is all anointed for heaven would have been living in the first century. I don’t beat myself up over all of this. We’ve all been duped into not believing Jesus words. What I did for over 40 years was done with a heart desiring to please God. I’m sure you and most others also acted out of a true heart. Spiritually speaking it puts us back to square one but that’s okay we can keep learning and growing. This time making sure of the more important things according to Christs’ teachings not men. That counts. Enjoy the peace that comes from making your own spiritual path based on the ring of truth as you hear it. Your faith will be your own and not what someone says you have to believe or else. Regards
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Excelsior! says:
October 21, 2015 at 1:10 pm
eyes opened,
An excellent comment. I am no longer a person of faith, but I think your attitude is commendable.
I like the passage in 1John 4. God is love, and we are all in union with him if we love our fellow human beings. It’s a positive message that is diametrically opposed to the WTBTS.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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eyes opened says:
October 21, 2015 at 2:41 pm
Thank you Excelsior I appreciate that.
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Holly Chu says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:01 pm
To eyes opened, a lovely and thoughtful comment.
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Meredith J says:
October 22, 2015 at 10:48 pm
Who knows eyes opened? Totally agree with you. We’ve all been duped but I guess we were allowed to stretch our wings, so to speak, as far as Christianity was concerned. The main point is that if we realise that we we’re going the wrong way and have been veered off the path, no reason to keep going on the wrong path or vowing not to go back on it. At least that is what I think.
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Average Joe says:
October 21, 2015 at 4:01 pm
@JB REEZNER
I spat my yoghurt out over my iPad laughing so much at your Village People montage of the GB. That’s worth a repost of its own so that we can reply to it. Please share again in a new comment. Can you embed images here in posts using the [IMG] tags I wonder?
Thanks for sharing.
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 4:55 pm
With those mental images, the monthly broadcast will never be the same.
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JB Reezner says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:03 pm
Thanks a lot Average Joe. I tried the embed thing on something else awhile back, but alas, it was a no-go (very possibly due to my mental inadduquaseees).
Here it is again http://imgur.com/EGl3x6c. Took me a few hours to make it, so I appreciated your feedback, amigo.
And thanks for takin’ me back in time with your Men At Work image down below (or “down under”, I should say…..ok, sorry….sorry..) Ahhh, but those were the good ol’ days.
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Average Joe says:
October 21, 2015 at 4:03 pm
@POW
[IMG]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004WK3X.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/IMG]
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Grace says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:00 pm
Hello everyone,
I hope you have all been well. I have been on holidays for the past week & reading through the comments, I noticed that things got heated. I felt like I walked into a bar after midnight & found PB drunk with all of the comments above. haha. I couldn’t help but laugh at his new name and alter ego.
Anyway about that letter. I can just see how my congregation elders would go about it; They would make it a kind of congregation needs style of talk & intertwine the council through the talk. Then use some really shocking trivia that goes with it to emphasise their point.
I remember when baggy jeans were the fashion & one of the elders made sure that we all understood where that fashion originated from… Supposedly it was a way for gay young men to hide their incontinence pads that started a fashion trend in the jails. I’m not sure how true that was but I remember everyone moaning with disgust in the audience & it worked.
To Meredith, I’m sorry I didn’t see your reply till today about a meet up. I thought that maybe if you are with jwrecovery we could pm each other.
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Pow says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Grace, I have to say that’s a new one about the baggie pants, I seriously have to doubt that since it seems to relate to L.A. gang members, hardly ones to be seen inbracing the gay community . I was told that when you go to prison there’s no belts, thus it’s a statement about serving time in the big house
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Grace says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:40 pm
Pow,
Yeah I think it’s probably one of the many urban legends that go around that become “fact”.
Just to add to my last comment. Often our elders would council someone through public talks or local needs to not isolate anyone which I thought was kind of them to do. I just can’t see them being able to do it any other way without offending people.
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Mashed brain says:
October 21, 2015 at 11:57 pm
@Grace.. PB drunk??? … I am glad I gave you a laugh with my altar ego … I have noticed PB slurring his words recently especially when he comes back from his night classes on tactfulness … I hear the classes are being held down at the pub (that means bar to the Yanks) .. The name of the pub is called Excelsior !… Come on PB stop needling that nice man.
PB has told me he has always enjoyed your comments & you are a genuinely warm caring person. You are definitely not out of place here so keep on commenting ! You encourage many!
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Meredith J says:
October 22, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Hi Grace
My hubby wanted us to get away for a few days up in the Snowy Mountains, so I have been absent too. Sounds like you are trying to reconnect with fleshly family again. Go for it.
It’s okay about missing each other, ships in the night and all that kind of stuff. I’m pretty easy going these days. I’ll try that website. One thing family love and that is celebrating Christmas. I mean completely. I think it tickles them pink. I know it’s weird but that is one way that they know that they have you back for good. Been through it all. Can’t get the lost time back but you can at least make the most of what time you have left. Accept them, warts and all. All the best with that one.
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Meredith J says:
October 22, 2015 at 10:53 pm
If you are sticking around, still here, if you want to meet. Sundeck or Evolve? You know what I mean.
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Grace says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:02 pm
To JB,
Please print that montage on a poster for us. That is priceless!
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JB Reezner says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Thanks Grace! And welcome back, m’dear. I hope you and MJ can meet up one day. I guess you guys “might” be able to arrange it without my help, but I’m here if you need me. :)
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Grace says:
October 21, 2015 at 5:51 pm
Thank you JB, you are kind.
I was nearly not going to comment anymore as sometimes I don’t know if I have offended people with what I write.
I notice that there has been a lot of love going to some who are dealing with hardships. I sometimes feel like I don’t fit in here but I can’t help but put my 2 bobs worth in.
At the moment, I’m working on trying to reconnect with my non jw family which I killed off mentally when I was in. It was the only way that I could accept the “they’re going to die at armageddon” scenario. When I successfully do that, I will bow out. It has been 2 years & I still feel like they are strangers to me. I suppose we all have something that we are battling & that’s why we’re here.
Thank you Lloyd & JW Survey.
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EverydayExplorer says:
October 22, 2015 at 3:03 am
I support JB Reezner’s advice (below) to you, Grace.
As someone who has never been a JW but has been close to family members for over 20 years who still are JWs — though some are now inactive or fading — I think you should trust yourself to reach out and re-connect with your non-JW family members. You will know with whom it’s appropriate to do so, and with whom perhaps it isn’t.
Don’t forget that all us human beings make errors of judgment in life, whether we have a faith in a deity or not; and there is something sublime and life-affirming about developing new friendships with our blood relatives.
The experience won’t just be healing for you, it will be healing for them too. We’re all in this together!
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anonymous says:
October 22, 2015 at 4:15 am
Dear Grace I also echo JB and Everyday Explorer’s comments. You have never said anything to offend anybody and if you stopped commenting, I would also miss them.
If you are close enough to connect with them, I am sure they will be so glad for that and welcome you with open arms. If you can’t visit them, then there are phone calls too. I am sure they missed you as much as you missed them.
We care about you. Take care, whatever you decide to do from here on out.
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Excelsior! says:
October 22, 2015 at 9:33 am
Grace,
I echo the comments of anonymous and JB Reezner.
Trust and reconciliation take time. Be patient and remain hopeful that your family will reconnect with you.
Do you have family gettogethers? They are a great way to share memories of closeness before the WTBTS cult ripped you away from them.
There was a time when you were close. Before the dark times of being in a cult. Try to reconnect with that person. How did that person feel about your family? What did that person have in common with your family?
You could try calling them for a five minute chat semi regularly and see how that goes.
Do your family understand why you rejected them? Do they understand that it was the cult self that rejected them, while your true self never stopped loving them?
In my experience, an explanation of why something happened is the starting point of the healing process.
I hope we continue to enjoy your comments. I really like your Australian sense of humour and your insightful observations and opinions.
Good luck!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:04 pm
I hope you can have that reconciliation with your family, Grace, but I hope it doesn’t mean that we lose your voice here. I haven’t been on this site as long as you have, but in the time I have been here, I don’t remember reading anything offensive at all from you.
Participation on this website is an emotional roller coaster ride. I hope you stay around as long as you can. You are well-liked here and your comments are certainly appreciated.
I haven’t had the problem you are dealing with regarding non-JW family members. The pain of thinking my family was going to die became so intense for me, I finally just had to tell myself that it can’t be possible that Jehovah is going to kill them. They had their own problems and insurmountable obstacles in the way of them accepting “the Truth”, so a God of love would not kill them for that. I sort of lied to myself, but that’s clearly a moot point now.
I think just being honest and expressing profound regret to your family will be the way to go. The natural bond among flesh-and-blood relatives is usually resilient enough to recover from some fairly substantial damage. I hope it all works out well for you and all involved, Grace.
Reply
Grace says:
October 22, 2015 at 1:12 pm
To Every day explorer, Anonymous, Excelsior & JB.
Your comments are so good for me. I came home feeling more lonely than ever. I blame myself for the distance between my family. When we first converted, my family were big on gatherings. When we stopped going to our first Xmas gathering, I was so self-righteous about it, saying pagan this & pagan that. I know that I broke their hearts.
Then my close brother & sister-in-law had there first daughter who was born months after our daughter died so they named her after me & wanted me to be her godmother. How rude was I to sprout that it went against my religious beliefs. I feel remorseful over that.
I just kept insulting them, rejecting one thing after another; birthdays, family funerals, weddings in other churches etc. Sprouting my self-righteous new beliefs. But they kept hanging in there on the side line because they didn’t want to make my world anymore despairing with the grief that I was going through but I knew inside they were quietly hoping that one day I would come out of it.
Now I’m in the position of telling each one that I was wrong & I battle between pride & humiliation. These last 2 years have been about making sure that I have made the right decision so that I don’t put everyone through this again and coming on here has been the encouragement & confirmation that I needed. The learning, the love, the fights, the humour. It’s all been helpful for us all on here. I can say that you are my friends.
Much love to you all.
Reply
Tara says:
October 22, 2015 at 6:30 pm
Oh Grace…. know you are loved :) This site has become family to me. I wake up and check to read the comments… and come home from work and check again. I may never meet you (any of you) but you are family now. Reach out to your family
JB Reezner says:
October 22, 2015 at 6:41 pm
Grace, you describe your non-JW family as a very loving group, having had your best interests at heart when you were in a very painful and vulnerable situation. With that, I’m even more hopeful and encouraged that they will react to your attempts to fully reconnect with them with love and understanding.
I think I probably speak for many here when I say that any updates you wish to provide as you progress through this process of reconciliation will be very welcome here among your friends. I hope–and do believe–that things will go well for you, but whether it goes smoothly or is challenging, please keep allowing us to be a source of strength and encouragement to you, as you are to us.
Tara says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:08 pm
So if T3 has ants in his tight pants over assuming, and he is, that tight fitting clothes are made and designed by homosexuals then how would he view us driving around in cars that were designed by them, or furniture in his luxury apartment at bethel that was designed by a metro-sexual etc etc etc… I bet his big puffy tie and hanky wasn’t designed by a butch guy with tats. Maybe those polyester suits that are deemed appropriate were designed by a gay guy….. we could go on and on. I was checking out a few spandex and yoga clothing places and the ones I looked at were by married couples or women… so with him mentioning spanx is he not opening himself and the WT up to legal action? Has anyone sent these companies his video?….
Reply
Summer says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm
Joseph shivers was the spandex brainchild..
His wife and children should sue
Reply
Happy Hen says:
October 21, 2015 at 6:37 pm
Hi just stumbled across this site as I was searching typed in ‘JW’ & this one came up . Wow I cannot believe there is such a great site as this . I am married to a circuit overseer & began having doubts when I saw the F&D start up their TV station last year and saw & heard them in the flesh for the first time . Very bizarre rantings from these men of Christ !
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 21, 2015 at 7:37 pm
Welcome, Happy Hen. You have some amazing discoveries ahead of you. This is the part of your life where you find out that all of the little questions that nag you about the things that “just aren’t right” with the Organization are not coming from anywhere bad. Rather, those questions are originating from your repressed powers of reason, your conscience, and your good heart.
I would recommend that you read the recent articles, and then look over and find “Article Categories”. Start with the topics you’re most interested in, and find the answers that you likely already felt must be out there somewhere.
Don’t be scared off by anything you read in the comments section. This is a large group of people, and there are many different views represented among us. But the thing we all have in common is a desire to encourage each other and watch as more and more truth is uncovered about the Organization that most of us sacrificed so many years of our lives to.
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 22, 2015 at 2:30 am
Mrs happy hen YOU maybe the one we have been waiting for. You should try and trawl through the “back catalogue” to see what you have missed, see what we are coming to and see where the org is heading.You dear hen are in an unique position you see the rank and file jdubs on a weekly basis and are at the grass roots.Just take notes for us here (mental notes) i think you will have, and gain tremendous incite and useful info.Ihope you won’t be put off by our daft banter and our own rants on occasion.The difference is we rant to vent not to judge and condemn.So sis welcome to our frosties aposties site the new breakfast cereal for the enlightened. ruthlee.
Reply
Mashed brain says:
October 22, 2015 at 4:48 am
@ruthlee Thank you for your kind comments.
I will be careful on this voyage of discovery!
Reply
Tara says:
October 22, 2015 at 7:34 am
Hello Happy Hen and welcome to the best site ever. You will find us a mixed bunch. Active, non-active, df’d, marked…. however we define ourselves we are all suffering from the effects of being a part of the WT. Most of us get through it by banter but you will find the information on here very valuable and sometimes unbelievable regarding what we have found out. Our eyes are being truly opened.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
October 22, 2015 at 9:10 am
happy hen,
Welcome to JW Survey’s regular cast of commenters!
Lloyd’s archive of articles will be of great benefit to you as you explore just how deep the rabbit hole goes. You are on the cusp of information that will change the way you see the world, yourself and everything. Don’t Panic! We are all here to help you, despite the odd occasion of conflict.
Thank you for your courage in commenting here, I appreciate how difficult it is to begin and continue to wake up. I wish you a peaceful and constructive journey!
Some of us are already trying to recruit you! Please know that you do not have to do anything, we are all just so pleased that one more person is willing to give us apostates a chance to explain why we left, and why we want to contribute to this burgeoning ex JW community.
If you are a Christian, then I wish the Peace of the Lord and His Love be with you.
If you are not, then I wish you peace and I hope that you will find a way to live your life with compassion and dignity.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Happy Hen says:
October 22, 2015 at 11:52 am
@Excelsior . Thank you for your encouraging kind comments. You seem to have a good knowledge of the organisation& many value your experience .
Excelsior , my husband has a friend who is a ‘ ‘helper’ to the Governing Body when they meet up if I hear anything that is new I will try & note it down . They do meet up every few months for dinner as they both went to school together .
Thanks again .
Reply
Beth Sarim says:
October 21, 2015 at 8:54 pm
Happy Hen;
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/
and a warm welcome. We’re all here to help!!
Reply
Dominic says:
October 21, 2015 at 9:30 pm
I was diagnosed with an eating disorder one year ago. A year ago I was twenty pounds underweight. Now, a year later I’m twenty four pounds over weight. My mom wants me to join her and come with her to the holy hall. Does the Jehovah’s Witness religion preachers punish people for having clinically diagnosed eating disorder? I see from posts it’s ok to be overweight in their religion. How will they view my eating disorder?
Reply
Dominic says:
October 21, 2015 at 9:36 pm
My mother loves me. I thank her for all of the kind adjatives she uses to describe me. She thinks going to the holy hall will help me.
Reply
boonfoxx says:
October 22, 2015 at 4:35 am
Dominic, be careful my friend. It is when you’re in a vulnerable circumstance that cults nab you. This happened to my mother before I was born and I ended up being raised in it.
They call it a Kingdom Hall. People will be very friendly and welcoming at first. Keep in mind they are like this because they are taught to be this way with new comers. It will feel very genuine at first. After you become indoctrinated, you’ll notice the warmth die off slowly. But, by this point, you will have accepted it and not understand why you feel depressed. Then it takes a very long time to realize that it was all fake.
I hate to use the term fake out of respect for people, because it’s real to most who are in it. But this is why we, the people who have left, say we have woken up. Because it’s not until you wake up that you realize you were dreaming.
All I can say is be careful Dominic. No one can make the choice for you. I know your mother loves you, my mom loved me as well, she still does. Delusion, however, will affect your future greatly. Be smart about it. If you need a social circle or support group, there are plenty of healthy ways to find one. Don’t choose to be a part of a religion for friends and “love” you’ll find that it’s conditional and will leave you wanting and wondering.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
October 22, 2015 at 9:17 am
Dominic,
You have my sympathy, sir. I wish you all the best with your ongoing treatment and recovery.
Please go and see your Doctor, and make sure that any treatment is overseen by them.
I’m sorry to say that you will find no real comfort or love in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses. True, you will find some individuals that are kindly, but the religion is a cult and it will want to use you.
I strongly encourage you to avoid the Jehovah’s Witnesses if you can. If your dear Mum is going and you have to go with her, then please educate yourself about mind control they will try to ensnare you with. Forewarned is forearmed.
If we can be of any help to you, then please leave us a message here. We will all try to help you if we can.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Matthew says:
October 22, 2015 at 4:59 pm
Thank you everybody, you are very helpful. Gracias.
Reply
Dominic says:
October 22, 2015 at 5:00 pm
Yes, I to thank you
Happy Hen says:
October 21, 2015 at 10:08 pm
@JB. Thank you so much for such a nice welcome! I must say sometimes amongst the circuit overseers wives they can be so judgemental which I hate as no one really can be their true self in the organisation . It is all about image & their are cliques even amongst us !
From all your comments I can see you have all been badly hurt by the organisation .Looking forward to further discussions!
@ Beth sarim . Thank you for your welcome & great name you have. I love all these unusual names like Anonymous, eyes opened,excelsior,Gem,etc,etc
Sounds like fun here but also quite touching from the heartfelt experiences!
Reply
Happy Hen says:
October 21, 2015 at 11:12 pm
@Dominic . I am so sorry you have an eating disorder. It can be so hard for you as others don’t always understand the problem ,but don’t worry you will not be castigated amongst the Jehovah witnesses for this . Some of the circuit overseers & their wives I associate with are grossly overweight . One friend of my husbands is like Humpty Dumpty & is at least 60 pounds overweight !
It is ironic that the Organisation will counsel someone for the type of clothing they wear but one circuit overseers wife I shop with sometimes loads her shopping basket up with cream cakes, biscuits, & at least 5 bottles of wine every week . She says her & her husband like a bottle with their meal every day but abstain on 2 days a week!
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 22, 2015 at 2:41 am
P.S try not to get caught as you will find this site very addictive if you fully awaken. We will help you along the way in any way we can. Remember some of us are still fully in and fully awake and that is the worst place to be. but you are never alone.This is our safe haven even when we don’t see eye to eye because All are casualties in the war so all walking wounded and looking for comrades who understand the pain.Anyway be discreet. I’m in a holy battle with my elder husband so i reckon i’ll be for the chop if a dolly bird comes along (is that to cynical?) plod on and be happy hen reguards ruthlee
Reply
Dominic says:
October 22, 2015 at 5:24 pm
Thank you Happy Hen
Reply
JKL says:
October 22, 2015 at 1:06 am
Thanks eyes opened for your kind comment to the 144.000 subject. Though I am not a believer of the bible, the subject interest me because it helped me to wake up. So much “wild speculation” has gone into this subject, and continues to do so, that I hope for the thinkers amongst the Witnesses that it will wake them up too.
Take care everyone!
Reply
boonfoxx says:
October 22, 2015 at 4:11 am
I remember when they had a problem with “baggy pants” when I was a teenager, haha.
Unfortunately the internet was just coming out back then, so you couldn’t share such non-sense with the rest of the world as easily. Not to mention waking up was nearly impossible since your only source of easily available information was from them. It took effort to go to the library and look something up. Needless to say their hard rules on only reading material printed by them. If I was still religious, I’d thank god for the internet and the information age!
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
October 22, 2015 at 4:20 am
Hello jwsurveyers, Sorry to go off topic here, but today I was shunned, by a person who was a close friend and had promised to stand by me.
My crime? I’m not DF or DA, but I haven’t been to a meeting in months.
This religion just loves to hate.
Reply
Tara says:
October 22, 2015 at 7:46 am
Don’t you just love the self righteous. Dear PBS you have friends here. Nothing is ‘off topic’ if you need to talk. Lloyd mentioned he would try and work in a forum where we could all just chat. Hope it comes soon. I was a householder last night lol. I haven’t been asked to be on the school for over two years. Suddenly, after being inactive and shunned because my daughter was df’d and then reinstated they ask me to be one…. hmm. I just chuckled to my self because it was so transparent. I think we started the new book last night.. I wasn’t paying much attention as I was looking for all the tight pants and haircuts, all the gestures that will soon cause ones to be condemned.
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
October 22, 2015 at 10:24 pm
Thankyou for your kind words Tara.
I guess I will never understand how these so-called Christians can just turn their affection on and off like a switch.
Reply
Pow says:
October 22, 2015 at 8:12 am
We call those ones” theo nazi’s,” when the letter of the law just isn’t good enough, they take it to the next level.
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
October 22, 2015 at 10:26 pm
Exactly pow, I think it’s known as pre-emptive shunning.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 22, 2015 at 1:14 pm
Absolutely, you’ve been marked. That’s where an elder sits a bunch of “mature” men in the congregation and gives them a big pep talk about being a shining light in the congregation and how they need to handle a special assignment that needs to be kept on the down low. “Remember that PigsB4Swine friend, well you, your spouses and kids need to keep clear of that individual now, for that individuals own good and please feel free to pass along the warning. Marking is a practice in every control cult. Don’t fall for it, if you stopped attending meetings and are heading out hopeing others one day might follow. You need to show how your awakening to the truth about their “truth” has brought joy and peace to your life. If your having doubts yourself please go over to http://www.jwfacts.com and go over the abundant proof against these false prophets. One of Lloyd’s videos about de programming tells you about the importance of research, research, research, in order to undo years of indoctrination by this cult.
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
October 22, 2015 at 10:35 pm
Thanks robert, I will not allow these people to ruin my day anymore. These people have nothing I want.
I suppose it’s amusing to watch how they think they have some power over you. That if they give you the stink eye from across a crowded cafe you will do the decent thing and leave. Their cryptonite seems to be indifference.
Reply
Ted says:
October 22, 2015 at 7:44 am
The Flock Book has 140 plus pages of do’s & don’t’s.
Now the flock are being afflicted further with the personal
fixations and hang up’s of individual gb, members.
Isn’t there enough guilt, fear and neuroses already, without
adding more?
Jesus said God is looking for for those who will worship him
In “Spirit and Truth”. But this religion leaves little room for the
heart and the conscience to function, they are suffocated,
held in a strait jacket of absolute rules.
I’ve just come in from my daily walk, boy, the fresh air is
wonderful.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
October 22, 2015 at 9:22 am
Ted,
Great comment, sir! I too like a good walk. I hope I can still do so when I am in my 80s.
More rules equals less control.
Moses started out with 10, and then they skyrocketed into hundreds.
Rules create more rules, it is their nature. Soon, there will be so many watching the watchers of those wearing the correct clothing that the whole thing will grind to a halt.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
rob says:
October 22, 2015 at 7:54 am
@Ted
“They are suffocated, held in a strait jacket of absolute rules”
I agree with this comment and will add that often, the elders go one step further and add their own interpretation to the rules in their own little kingdoms, which makes it even more oppressive for the individuals who are caught up in this tangled web of a religion.
Unfortunately, I found that the rank and file worried so much about how they were perceived amongst the congregation that they would absolutely follow whatever wacky rules were imposed upon them without question.
In this religion, appearances seem to be everything.
Reply
Pow says:
October 22, 2015 at 8:25 am
I will add in addition to all our written rules, we have 100′ of oral rules, for instance you can have a mustache but not a beard, no hair below the chin only above. Trade school ok, college, not. Count service time for working at warwick ok, your hall, not. 10 hour or more in service time=great publisher, 8.or less =low hour/problem publisher. I could go on and on….
Reply
Robert77 says:
October 22, 2015 at 8:47 am
Might as well be the Mary Kay cosmetics pyramid scheme. I’ve mentioned this before, but it is all about who pushes( or claims they do) the most product. Recently an outright autistic young man, son of an elder, was named Ministerial Servant because of his “ferver” in the door to door work. He isn’t qualified for most jobs and collects mental disability payments and when you speak to him its as if your speaking with a shy three year old. I have nothing against him at all, God bless him, but it proves my point about all, absolutely all promotions within this publishing company masquerading as a dooms day cult stem from who reports the most hours and magazines handed out. I believe they are actively seeking out those humble ones with an IQ of potato. If you start to sound like an actual motivational pastor who knows and who sticks strictly to Gods word you are marked as suspect. You MUST mention the glorious seven in every talk, prayer, dinner table conversation, We are Scientology with a different name. They’ll soon want us to pray to them. “Our Tony, who claims he’s going to heaven, tight pants be your name, thy crease be done in halls across the world, as they are in the Brooklyn HQ.” Ridiculous.
Reply
Pow says:
October 22, 2015 at 9:01 am
A prayer without mentioning the faithful and discreet slave, you mise well be praying to your gold fish,…I think I read that somewhere. .
Reply
Bearwoody says:
October 22, 2015 at 3:41 pm
When I was last in, in the 80s, all Caucasians in our circuit were ordered by the CO to shave all facial hair. Only Hispanic, Latino, and African-American bros were allowed mustaches. Because it was culturally acceptable. Whatever. I knew an older Greek sister who had a rather noticeable ronnie, but she remained in good standing. On the other hand, she was no Tom Selleck.
Reply
almost anonymous says:
October 22, 2015 at 6:53 pm
Notice they no longer publish the hours per publisher. I wonder why?
If you do the math, it looks like they were padding the hours for years until finally it was just to obvious and ridiculous to continue. If you do the math it is about 2 hours per publisher worldwide and about 5 hours per publisher in the U.S.
Reply
Sy says:
October 22, 2015 at 9:07 am
Maybe they can all start wearing the new JW.org flags as togas…
Reply
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