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62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses
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Posted on October 4, 2015

62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah's Witnesses
62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah’s Witnesses

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you will have to be satisfied with remembering October 4th 2015 as the day congregations worldwide were informed of the scrapping of the Theocratic Ministry School – over a week after the news was leaked in advance by a Bethel source.
But if you are a former Jehovah’s Witness, or an “apostate,” you can take pride in thinking of October 4th 2015 as the day when more ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses than have ever before appeared in a single video with a message of love and concern for those still trapped inside the Watchtower organization.
Organized to commemorate the anniversary of this website’s launch on October 4th 2011, the short montage film represents the joint efforts of 62 “apostates” from far-flung corners of the globe. Rather than trying to condemn Jehovah’s Witnesses, the video sets out to debunk the damning stereotypes of apostates as disseminated in Watchtower publications.
Instead of appearing as foaming-at-the-mouth mentally diseased vagrants, the apostates in the video are calm, rational people who have walked away from a religion that causes far more harm than good, and is ultimately untrue.
It is hoped that the video, with its intriguing title, will reach out to as many Jehovah’s Witnesses on YouTube as possible, and get them to rethink their position regarding doing objective research into their cherished beliefs.


[Please note: Due to a music rights issue, the video does not play on all handheld devices.]
JWsurvey Day was first announced at the end of August, and the collaborative video was given the working title of “What you DON’T know about apostates.” A Facebook group was set up, and the script was made available online for people to choose which lines they wanted to speak.
However, as more and more people signed up for an ever-diminishing number of parts in the video, it became clear that something special was happening. The sheer number of people who wanted to share in delivering the video’s message was an event in itself.
Last night, as the deadline for the video drew close, I stayed up until 4 am making last-minute edits. Over 4 gigabytes of video submissions had to be sorted and whittled down to a final 15-minute short film. As the video took on its own personality I noticed a change was needed. The original title would be scrapped in favor of “62 Apostates Who Love Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (There are actually more than 62 apostates appearing in the film, but because I would rather downplay the figure than exaggerate, I have counted only those who speak in the final edit.)
I sincerely hope that we can do the video justice by making sure it is shared as widely as possible. It’s wonderful to see the enthusiastic response already on Facebook and Twitter from ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are enjoying seeing their own thoughts about Watchtower verbalized by such a wide array of people.
Special mention must also be made of all those who have worked in translating the subtitles for the video. Presently there are 8 languages available, but a further 9 are in the pipeline. Michel Mix (pictured below), a member of the JWsurvey Day group, has done a fantastic job of coordinating the translation project from his base in Colombia.
Oftentimes when I do activism work on my own (for example, a large JW Broadcasting rebuttal), I can find the process genuinely tiring – and even mildly frustrating. But when I am working with so many sincere people, I feel the burden lifted. Activism becomes the unbridled joy it should be. I am working with like-minded individuals who share my passion towards an important goal, which is one of the best feelings you can have in life.
A tribute to JWsurvey
When I first set up JWsurvey, it did feel like “my website” – and I still catch myself speaking in those terms occasionally. But as I look back on the work that has been done and the huge potential for making a difference moving forward, I find those ideas are shifting. JWsurvey is becoming more of a legacy.
In the most recent 2015 survey, one of the questions asks which resources have been most instrumental in the person’s awakening from Watchtower indoctrination. The answers as of October 4, 2015 are as follows…
table
In total, 1,218 have so far credited this website as either very or extremely influential in their awakening. This figure, and the figures for other similar websites, are simply astonishing. It is a sobering reminder of just how much work the internet is doing in chipping away at Watchtower’s stranglehold on people’s minds.
It also means the role of this website is more important than any one single person, which is why I have been gradually expanding our team of writers and illustrators over the past year or so. My eventual aim is to leave JWsurvey in the capable hands of the next generation of activists, to hopefully continue on long after the bulk of my work is finished.
In the meantime, there is still much work to do – work that is made far more enjoyable when I allow myself pause to reflect on what has been accomplished. In that spirit, I hope you will join me in celebrating today, October 4th, as “JWsurvey Day.” And I leave you with some short messages that have been sent in by our readers…
Please note, I haven’t been able to publish all the comments as some are too long, but I will try to find a way of somehow adding some to this article either as links to Word documents or as comments.
***
[Anonymous]
Put simply, JWsurvey enabled me to fully wake up. As an elders daughter who had pioneered – I faded from the organisation aged 21. I wanted to think for myself; I started to have an awareness that my thoughts were being controlled. This was not easy; I left behind my whole community to embark on a journey to educate myself and build a new support network.
Now aged 30, it has only been in the last 18 months that I have been fully awoken and free from JW indoctrination, thank you to JWsurvey and the John Cedars YouTube channel. This intelligent, insightful, educational, humorous and honest website, truly helped me to understand the facts as to why I had left. For this I will be eternally grateful. In the past two years I have been able to live a normal happy life, without any guilt, fear or regret – this is priceless. In addition to this, my child had been born free. One of the greatest gifts I could give him.
Please keep up the good work! You do an amazing job.
Thank you once again.
***
Michel Mix
M.Mix
My name is Michel Mix. I grew up in the truth and got baptized when I was 14 years old. After finishing high school I was advised to go to university. Instead I started a part-time distance education course (which I quit when I married a fellow Jehovah’s Witness), went pioneering and became a ministerial servant.
I always loved studying to Bible, but find out that many teachings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses were un-Biblical and merely human interpretations. It that didn’t bother me too much though, I still thought it was the ‘truth’.
When after many years my marriage broke up, I lost all my faith: I’d dedicated many years of my life to a God who didn’t support me at all. I got into a new relationship and the Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped me from the congregation. My former friends and even family members won’t talk to me anymore. That hurts. A lot.
Sites like JWsurvey.org helped me to realize the truth about the ‘truth’: Jehovah’s Witnesses are not just a religion like all the others. They are WORSE. The indoctrination is overwhelming and there are a lot of victims. All my doubts about teachings that I had in the past, were confirmed. And I found out that many members don’t agree with the teachings, but cannot leave for social reasons.
For me leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses was the best thing I ever did. I’m happy and free! I remarried, moved from The Netherlands to Colombia, enrolled in university and we are expecting a baby. I’ve lost 20 years of my life, but the future is still bright and shining!
***
Yvette Rucker
image4
I became a witness in my early 20s. The promise of a paradise earth where there is peace and unity among all mankind especially between a husband and wife appealed to me.  I wanted this kind of world for my children. I studied and became a witness hoping and praying my husband would too and he did,  but it did not make my marriage better it only made it worse.  My husband believing that I now was scripturally bound to obey gave him total control and he was even more abusive. There came a day when I realize that if I stayed with him he would kill me and our children so I made the decision to leave and I did.
Of course, I was no longer good association because I separated from my husband and eventually divorced him to protect myself and the children.  Being a single mother was hard I had to work 2 jobs to support us but at least we did not have to live in constant fear.  The congregation had little to do with me so I received no help from them I was completely on my own  I missed so many meetings trying to work and take care of my children. 
My older daughter introduced me to your website because she no longer believed it was the truth, because of the way we were treated.  She pointed out scriptures that showed that her dad was not the loving Christian husband he should have been and that the elders were told and sympathized with him cutting me off from a faith I believed in wholeheartedly all those years.
I did read JWsurvey and all the links as well. JWsurvey helped me loose the fear and guilt that comes with leaving what you come to believe is Gods organization. I have been able to heal and i am still healing.   Thank you so much for the real truth about the Watchtower organization
***
Julia Douglas
2015-09-27 19.34.56
I remember when JWSurvey was just an idea and Lloyd was only known by his pseudonym and had yet to officially break ties with the Watchtower. I had already been disfellowshipped and was using my true identity on Facebook, but that’s not to say I was truly free of the brainwashing and programming. I struggled for a long time… and reading the articles on JWSurvey proved to be a regular source of fact-based, reliable information that I have come to rely on.
It’s always exciting when there is a leak, but more importantly, JWSurvey has been a comfort to the demons plaguing my mind. Lloyd has a remarkable ability to quickly read, digest, comprehend and effectively refute Watchtower propaganda, time and time again. Sensationalism would only detract from the well-reasoned information that JWSurvey presents, and Lloyd does not take short cuts. For all of these reasons, I would say JWSurvey is one of the go to websites that I regularly refer people to, and I hope that Lloyd and his team will continue to maintain the high standards of quality in the days ahead.
***


Patricia Burford
patricia2
 I am a former JW, I left the organization when I was 17. Recently I accepted a bible study from a JW, I was having feelings of disconnect from religion. I thought since I had left the organization at such a young age, maybe I just needed to reintroduce myself and see if I had made a mistake all those years ago because of rebellion and my youth. 

In the few weeks of my study, some issues from my past started surfacing. I had to deal with issues I had pushed back all those years ago. I had a ministerial father who was very abusive and a pioneer mother who had no clue. I went to a congregation where the elders knew what was taking place yet took no action.

I began to wonder why these things were coming to the surface 35 years later. I truly believe that in stages of our life we are led to face our past in order to grow and move forward. This got me to thinking about other JW’s, there had to be others that felt the same as I did and had similar experiences.

So I started to google, and JWsurvey popped up, I dived right in. I spent the whole day reading and watching the video’s. I found answers to questions I have had for years in just those few hours. I learned more about the JW’s and the organization that day, than I had being raised a JW for 17 years. John Cedars (Lloyd) has been there and experienced the same as we have.  He has proof and he backs up everything that he brings to the table. JWsurvey shows what this cult is all about and the information shared is to save us..

I am so grateful for all the work you do.

(Regarding the picture, I am the older gal… This is my daughter and I…)
 


***


Susannah
I left the witnesses aged 27. I am now 60. I have had a good life. I got an education, met some wonderful people and made a new life. I buried my feelings about family and friends. Around the time or just after my JW sister died in 2012, I discovered JWsurvey. I could not believe what I was reading. Lloyd not only understood but wrote about his experience, intelligently, passionately and with a brave honesty. I remember watching him in his car the night he went for his JC. I cried when his father wrote to him, cutting him off. Watching, reading and listening was like being given permission to breath and to speak. JWsurvey has helped me heal when I did not even realise I needed to heal. It has helped me recognise the folly of the beliefs. It let me get in contact with my anger, my sadness, it let me cry and then forgive. This is a cult that has held my family in fear and still does. The fact that JWsurvey exists may mean the next generation will be free. For that I am grateful.


***


Uwe Schoning
I da/df myself in 2003 … but defended the JWs and their policies a long time. Somehow in 2011 this stopped. A year later I knew I had to work up my past and I was searching for people with the same thoughts… that something in the organization was not right!
I found a German forum of escapists but felt like I would never fit in… and then I found JWSurvey.org and the kind words on this page showed me, that the author was indeed empathic and would exactly know what I was thinking. His objective arguments and the information he provided confirmed me… I had not left the truth… I left a dangerous cult. And his non-agressive activism showed me, that it is not a bad thing to be an apostate…
JWSurvey helped me to understand, that the truth about the “truth“ is a story about deluded old men, who think their claim to lead is based on a story Jesus told.
JWSurvey showed me, that apostates do indeed care for the people still caught in the organization… and are indeed good people.
***

Mika
Mika July 2015 40th BDay
My name is Mika from Michigan in the United States. I couldn’t pass up this opportunity to voice how helpful JWSurvey was to me when I found the courage to turn in my letter of disassociation from Watchtower/JW. Although I saw a different activist account and website first, JWSurvey/John Cedars YouTube channel and website were by far the most helpful to me.
Visiting JWSurvey helped me get an idea of what to expect beforehand from the shunning that was sure to and did follow my exit from the religion, I also found needed encouragement and support from the articles and community of posters. I have always favored the honest, logical, balanced approach and visitor feedback your website & YouTube channel affords which made it enjoyable to view/visit.
One thing it helped I’m sure many visitors realize, is the choice we had all along to free, happy lives without instilled fear through cult doctrine. JWSurvey isn’t extremist nor does it promote fairy tales, it simply states the facts and sets an example in speaking up against the harmful effects of cults in an empathetic way that many could relate to.
JWSurvey gave me much courage and support while helping me realize freedom and peace of mind were already mine, I only need reclaim it from the undue influence of the cult that influenced me to believe otherwise. JWSurvey educated me on effective ways I could help others. I know it would have been more challenging for me had I not came across your activism efforts, but I am beyond grateful that I did.I don’t want to sound overly dramatic here, but it is true when I sum it up in one sentence, JWSurvey helped me reclaim long-overdue emotional freedom and joy in my life.
THANK YOU!
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
Further reading…
◾Hemant Mehta’s “Friendly Atheist” article on the 62 Apostates video
Video trailers…






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← Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing →
 
475 Responses to 62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses


Newer Comments →
 
 Catalina says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:09 pm
 
These are beautiful people. This article brightens my day. The people in this article say things I want to say. You guys explain it all. This is the best article I’ve read so far because it is so moving, meaningful and helpful. I feel very comfortable asking people to read this article. It’s honest and explains the reality of what we go through. That’s awesome.
Reply
 
 
 JohnBoy says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
With no hatin’ Article explains it all. Its really helpful.
Reply
 
 
 Amanda Allan-Blair says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:26 pm
 
Very proud to have been a part of this wonderful project. The video was beautifully edited, and the message came through perfectly. It was delivered with strength, warmth, and genuine concern. Thanks again to Lloyd for all the hard work, and for caring enough to do what you do for Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Everyone involved is awesome for reaching out, and coming together as one voice. Activism *is* teamwork, as Lloyd says. Here’s hoping more continue to wake up, and break free!
-AAB-
Reply
 
 
 Catalina says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:33 pm
 
I also want to add Susannah said some things that I’m now going through. She said, “I did not even realise I needed to heal. It has helped me recognise the folly of the beliefs. It let me get in contact with my anger, my sadness, it let me cry and then forgive. This is a cult that has held my family in fear and still does.” I relate to her. John Cedars did good.
Reply
 
 Susannah says:

 October 5, 2015 at 3:01 am
 
Happy, my comments resonated. I hope we all heal. I feel it is possible now. I even think my family could come out. Why not? We did!
Reply
 
 
 
 JohnBoy says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:42 pm
 
Thank you Amanda-Allan-Blair and everyone else apart of this project.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:43 pm
 
Annnnd now I’m sitting here crying. Well, that was absolutely beautiful. Thank you very much Lloyd, and all others who shared in the making of that video, and the making and sustaining of this site and other “apostate” sites that bring real truth to those who are starving for it. May you ALL be around MUCH longer than the Org itself.
Reply
 
 
 Catalina says:

 October 4, 2015 at 2:47 pm
 
I agree with JohnBoy, Thank you, you guys. It’s an awesome video.
Reply
 
 
 David says:

 October 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm
 
I think it would be a nice idea to organise groups or meet ups in different countries. One of the worst things that an ex JW face when leaving the cult is the loss of the social network and it is truly devastating. But if you meet regularly with people that are in the same situation it can be encouraging. It is beneficial for the ex and for the people thinking to leave the cult in the future.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 4, 2015 at 6:14 pm
 
I agree David. I am so alone but I am still so afraid. ‘It’s irrational’, as people who do not understand the fear and control, would say. Being a witness trying to escape is like coming of a drug. It’s like going ‘cold turkey’ without a support network.
I would love to find others who could support me as I would like to support them. But how? Giving names out could be opening the door to the WT police. How do we find each other? Even the fb pages under an assumed name is dangerous…. It’s a form of paranoia.
The fear is real. The looking over your shoulder when you talk to your df’d kids is real…. irrational, but real.
Reply
 
 Awake! says:

 October 4, 2015 at 10:54 pm
 
It’s what the “Witlesses” call “leading a double life”. You don’t HAVE to interact with ex-JWs if that’s not a viable option. There are 8 Billion individuals on this Big Blue Ball. Make NEW friends! Anywhere and everywhere!! Starbucks? McDonalds? The local pub? The mall? Clubs? The Gym? Night classes in…basket-weaving? Take up a new hobby or sport. Get out there, on the sly. Lie if you have to. LIE, LIE, LIE. PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY!!! Cover your tracks. Remember, your business is YOUR business. To coin an old phrase, “Ask me no questions, I’ll tell you no lies.” And that’s how you build a NEW support network!!! Get out there. Don’t be shy. Use your imagination and you can work wonders. If you’re a friend, people will want to be your friend. I’m sure you have a lot to offer. Believe in yourself. Be CONFIDENT!!!
 Remember, you have been conditioned to feel insecure! It reminds me of something I once read, perhaps on this site, about how circus elephants are conditioned. As babies, their leg is tied to a stake by a metal chain. When they get used to the idea that they “cannot” break free, the chain is replaced by an ordinary rope. Even as an adult, the elephant never bothers trying to break free, even though it could easily do so.
 But you’re a lot smarter than an elephant.
Reply
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 1:58 am
 
@Awake! Excellent Comment….Take a LEAF out of the GB Handbook…IT IS NOT LYING…ITS !… That JOLLY OLD TERM.. THEOCRATIC WARFARE!!
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:06 am
 
So many EXCELLENT COMMENTS!
@Awake! – In my position, I call it being a “double agent.” I am a secret agent on a mission. This mission involves the lives and sanity of 8 million people!
I used to have a hobby which required much time and money but shortly after I woke up about 2 years ago, I decided my bothers and sister need ME! So I gave up my hobby. This is far more important.
My advice to any who are thinking of breaking free, do it slowly. Like Awake! said, drift. Make new friends. Go ahead and yes, “lead a double life” if you have to. One of the first things I did when I broke free from the Borg was make a bucket list of thing I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. And let me tell you ***** IT WAS THE MOST EXHILARATING EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE *****
A few of the things I just had to do:
-I called up my disfellowshipped family and friends that I actively, naively, stupidly, ignorantly SHUNNED for YEARS and I begged for their forgiveness. My own sister. God damn….. I’m starting to tear up thinking about this. I called her up and poured my heart out to her. It was earth moving, to see her and my nephew and nieces after all those years. I need to stop here about this but…. just do IT. Everyone I contacted openly embraced me and forgave me. I was humbled. Truly, THAT WAS LOVE. Shunning was something I could no longer live with. At the time when I contacted them all, I was planning to make my resignation from this cult public so I didn’t care about the consequences of my actions. But amazingly, nobody ratted me out and I’ve been 2 years an active apostate while remaining an “active” JW.
-I registered to vote. After seeing the biggest traitor in the history of the United States get elected TWICE, I decided to do something I have always wanted to do! I contemplated becoming a Super Delegate but that would put me in the public light. Anyways, I can’t wait for next year’s elections!
-I bought an American flag. Yeah, I’ve always been super patriotic (secretly of course :) ) but I’ve never been able to do anything about it. Now Old Glory hangs in my office with pride. When I went with my colleagues to a *baseball* game, I sang the national anthem like nobody’s business. And it felt great!
-I bought lottery tickets. I didn’t win anything but the sheer act of doing it was great. I know it sounds stupid but if I won the megaball, I’d tell everyone to go to hell.
-I smoked an Arturo Fuente cigar which according to my colleagues is one of the best you can buy. Along the way, I’ve smoked everything imaginable, just once.
-I celebrated my birthday. I never told my colleagues at my new job that I was a witness, despite being under control of the Borg at the time, since my last experience of telling everyone I was a JW led to the loss of most of my office friends and subsequent dislike for my job. So they threw me a birthday bash. It was awesome! I’m not looking forward to showing them the same level of reciprocity! LOL :)
-The other biggies you’ll have to use your imagination for. Just know, I completed my bucket list in less than a month and repeated the process many, many times. The level of euphoria I experienced was what I could only describe as going to heaven.
And all of this, while still remaining “active” and keeping all of my friends and family. I’ve managed to also keep my MS status by using the “health issue” excuse so I don’t have to do much at all. I have a feeling though they will be asking me to reconsider since I am relatively young and indeed a very healthy and fit specimen. One of the elders has been giving me the stink eye recently because I’ve recently turned down most assignments. And he always hated me. He can kiss my apostate ass.
But I have been through the whole process of breaking free. It is amazing. That is all I can say.
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:24 am
 
I agree, fellow ex-JW’s can only do so much to help. You have to become self-actualized in order to grow. Check out human theorist Robert Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and see where you are at personally. (It’s not as hokey as it sounds, I promise). I agree with Awake, some day there may be no JW’s, which would mean calling yourself an ex-JW pointless. Didn’t John Lennon say something about just joining the human race, we all shine on…..yada yada.
Reply
 
 
 
 David says:

 October 5, 2015 at 2:53 am
 
Breaking from the cult is the first step. But we also need to get rid of the cult mentality as well.
Years of indoctrination has created a distorted view of reality.
We are just people that not feel confortable investing our lives in spreading lies invented by 7 deluded/crazy guys.
I am personaly a Christian and live a normal life.
We are not apostate or evil. After all if the same rule apply all JWs are apostates, because the majority has left the previous religion.
But wordly people can show tollerance, can give them space to build their properties.
But the JWs who should be an example of Christ love can show the highest example of cruelty by using families and friends as a weapon.
Their behaviour reminds me the mafia families which try to obtain what they want by treathing the well being of family members.
It am truly shocked how heartless and brutal the JWs can be.
Therefore if we organise gatherings to encourage each other is perfectly normal. You do not need to hide or feel guilty.
We love truth and honesty and we have decided to leave a lie spreading cult paying a huge price.
This is something to be proud of not ashemed of.
The JWs should feel ashamed, they read the Bible everyday but like the Pharisees are cabable ot cruel acts and fail to understand that they part of a commercialised cult.
They want people to be like a Big Mac, all the same. You can think differently and still love God and be a honest person.
For the JWs they key to be a good person is to worship 7 men that have cleverly created a ficticious position to controll and dominate people through brain washing.
I think as formet cult members we have a moral duty of spreading the message. We are not against religion or the Bible, we want that people have the right to make a personal decision without being punished and treated with intollerance.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:30 am
 
JW’s can be the most judgmental, capricious, sanctimonious frauds of ALL religions on earth today. And that says a lot!
I know, sadly, because I was one of those myself- always judging this one and that one for the least infinitesimal “offenses” like coming to the meeting late, handing in your service time late, not reporting AT LEAST the average amount of hours (9.whatever hours), failing to shave before a meeting, chewing gum at the meeting, sending a text message at the meeting, wearing a tie that is too colorful, wearing socks that are too colorful, not giving a comment at the meeting, skipping a meeting, the list is endless….
And look at all of these “infractions” of MEN! Did not Jesus warn about this?!?!?!?!
Yet, while a Borg, you don’t even notice that you are a self-righteous prick. Until you finally break free!
Reply
 
 
 
 Jill says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
Hi Tara,
 Find us over at Ex-JW Recovery Group 3: https://www.facebook.com/groups/xjwrg3/.
You are so far from being alone, as this group shows everyday. You might want to follow or join under an alias since the group is open. I wish you peace. ~Jill
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm
 
thanks Jill. I will have to make up an alias. Been meaning to do it but still worried as a witness looks after my computer needs when I crash it…. I do that a lot. not very computer savvy lol.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Arlis Scott says:

 October 4, 2015 at 4:15 pm
 
I’ve loved coming to this site to see what the latest news is regarding JW’s. Lots of great information, and ideas to think about. Breaking away from being a Jehovah’s Witness is one of the hardest things to do, especially if you were raised as one. You don’t even realize how you reason things out at times. When I left, I left because I never believed it anymore. I was disfellowshipped because I was living in sin, but never thought of it in that manner. Being yourself and making a choice is not a sin. Nor is believing in lies! I still know people who are inactive, but still believe, and I’m hoping that sites like this can make them make sense of what Jehovah Witnesses organization really is. A scam and cult at it’s worst! Many thanks to Lloyd and everyone who works at JW Survey! Plus all the apostates from around the world. Your voices do make a difference.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 5, 2015 at 11:50 am
 
Well said! You are not “living in sin;” you are simply living!
I too was raised a JW. That caused so much harm to my childhood. That’s all I can say for now about that.
For me, you can say I’ve been “living in sin” for 2 years. My friend at Bethel, 7+ years. I’d say his “sins” are far worse than mine and he is in good standing to this day. His friends also for several years. Others I know have been “living in sin” for many years although not apostate like myself. I now consider myself a Super Apostate. I’m so determined to see the collapse of this cult, you have no idea.
Reply
 
 
 
 pearlsB4swine says:

 October 4, 2015 at 4:22 pm
 
Thoroughly enjoyed this informative and well balanced vid.
 Congratulations on a job well done, thanks and hugs to all involved.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 4, 2015 at 4:23 pm
 
I loved the video and the article and jwsurvey has been the most helpful for me in dealing with the loneliness that I am feeling in my situation after a marking talk was given to me a few months ago. Thank you so much to all of those who contributed to making it. It warms my heart so much.
The Watchtower has the ability to bewitch and control the minds and emotions and consciences of eight million people. They are deceptive and give the impression of holiness but we were able to see through the deception but when we are the only one out of a whole congregation or circuit who sees the wickedness of the Organization, we are made to stand alone and are supposed to “get over it” while everyone else at the Hall or circuit is led to believe that the Society is saintly, while we are “crazy”. The depth of our despair and loneliness can be almost unbearable but this site is the one place that we can go to that we feel not alone anymore. It has literally saved our lives.
The skill of the Watchtower leaders at controlling eight million people is amazingly good. We were taken in by them but we finally woke up to the lies and we need to be thankful to all those who go through the work to expose the lies and cover-ups like Lloyd has done with this web site and his videos.
We need to be happy that our eyes were finally opened up to the kind of people we are dealing with when so many other people are still being duped into wasting their one and only precious life away working for an organization that cares absolutely nothing about them.
The Watchtower promised a paradise earth and that was the lure that they used and it worked good on us. We put off our lives in the here and now for the “future” life in the paradise earth but now that our eyes have been opened to the lies, we can start to live our lives now and enjoy our life finally without all the guilt.
At the end of the day, we are the winners. We are making a stand against our abusers. We are the ones who are strong and who finally have our own identity. We are the ones who are free.
Reply
 
 Jill says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:25 am
 
This right here.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 4, 2015 at 5:21 pm
 
I take my hat off to anyone who is able to stand up to the Watchtower. This is a very sweet video which hopefully should dispel any ridiculous ideas JW’s have about ‘apostates’.
Ones like John Cedars have the guts to tell it like it is and at the same time, allowing us to do the same thing by means of this website. Congrats for your anniversary. JWSurvey has been a real success.
Reply
 
 
 Dawn Hughes says:

 October 4, 2015 at 6:05 pm
 
You all really hit the nail on the head with this one. I was 4 th gen witness and a pioneer. I was luck enough to find a husband who was a grandson of a former witness who escaped his sisters husbands persecution when his parents died. God bless you all for your support. You have given us both a second lease on life. Hugs and kisses Cedars to you and your family!
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 4, 2015 at 6:07 pm
 
I think when the ‘sister’ said ‘you don’t have to be afraid’. That’s when I broke down and cried. Thank you Lloyd and everyone in this video, Thank you everyone who comments… thank you for giving me a ‘home’.
Reply
 
 
 From Brazil says:

 October 4, 2015 at 6:47 pm
 
When it will be available at the JW Broadcasting? = )
Reply
 
 
 Texas says:

 October 4, 2015 at 6:57 pm
 
I am so touched by this video, what an amazing message! I am a born and raised baptised JW and am struggling right now with leaving. I came onto this site right after the “tight pants” talk. Which made me question where has the love gone, what an ignorant and irresponsible comment from a Governing Body member. I did something I never had the guts to do before. Google JW’ s… this lead me here. I am one that participated in the survey this year and checks this site pretty much every day for updates and Cedars utube channel. Guess you could call me an apostate stalker :) . I am in the position if I fully walk away I will have NO family and NO friends. That has been made very clear to me from an early age. I will be completely alone and that is unbearably painful and terrifying. I have had many losses and love those in my congregation dearly, I just wish their love was unconditional, as mine is for them. I am making this first ever post to tell you all “Thank you!”. Especially Llyod who has dedicated so much time, money, and effort to helping others like myself. I don’t know what the future holds for me or what my beliefs are anymore. It’s just nice to know that others have made or making the difficult journey to freedom and maybe I can too!
Reply
 
 Sarah says:

 October 4, 2015 at 7:35 pm
 
What a nice comment. Believe me when I say I have been there. I used to do the exact thing, checking here every night to see any new articles. My husband and I left 2 years ago. He had some family that will still keep a minimal relationship with him. But me, not one person. No one, and i come from a big family. I truly feel like all of my family and friends died. They won’t answer my texts, or say a word to me, even when my daughter, their grandchild/niece was born. No one came, or even called. I am and think I always will be heartbroken over this. What you face is really so huge and you are so brave to be able to even think of facing it. But you know there is an incredible freedom that comes, doing what is right, being free from that judgement and able to just be yourself. I also think for every person that leaves because they find out it isn’t true, they open the door for more to come through. I really wish you the best. I am the girl who reads the last line in this video, and I think it is so true..be honest, and true to yourself, and learn what real freedom is all about.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 4, 2015 at 7:45 pm
 
You have us now Sarah. I have you :) x
Reply
 
 Jill says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:26 am
 
YES!
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 4, 2015 at 8:16 pm
 
Sarah, enjoy life to the fullest with your husband and children. Do not let the past cloud you so that you miss out on your own children’s upbringing. May God bless your home and remember Psalm 27:11 “Even if my own father and mother abandon me, God himself will take me in. “
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 4, 2015 at 7:43 pm
 
You are not alone Texas :) you have us for what it is worth. It took courage for you to comment :) I took that step a few months back. Lloyd said he would try and get a forum going for us all to chat freely. I think we have a new family. One born from adversity, from an organisation that preached love but didn’t fully disclose how conditional it was. I come on here more often than I go on fb. I’ll look out for you :)
Reply
 
 Awake! says:

 October 4, 2015 at 11:08 pm
 
@Texas
 Check out my response to Tara’s comment up above. She was expressing similar concerns about having no one on the “outside”. I offered some tried and tested advice. Good Luck t’ y’all!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 4, 2015 at 7:34 pm
 
Moved to tears by all the courage and love shown in the video and article. With everything that has been happening lately I feel that God is finally listening to the prayers of those victimized by this cult. I see a whole new meaning to the often quoted words of Psalm 37:10,11 10 “Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.” This video gives me a real hope for that peace, as a still active member of a JW congregation I thank every person who participated for your message of love.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 4, 2015 at 7:56 pm
 
Can you see, with your minds eye
 People dwelling together?
 Sorry has passed, peace at last,
 Life without tears or pain….
Yes it’s a Kingdom song but perhaps we are the mirror image for who it is really intended.
Some of the scriptures I now look at and really wonder if we, the ones who have escaped or escaping, physically or mentally are not the ones being mentioned and not the ones who presume it speaks of them.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 4, 2015 at 8:25 pm
 
I’ve been reading the Greek scriptures again with that new perspective. They truly are part of the Babylon the Great they love to criticize, an ursurping false religion, masking as the one true faith, while really hunting down those that truly want a relationship with their creator. With the purpose of completely draining them of that love and hope in him they once possesed. There is no way the God of the Bible lets them walk off into the sunset without their judgement day.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 5, 2015 at 7:23 am
 
same here r 67 exactly the same ruthlee. its almost synchronicty
Reply
 
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 5, 2015 at 12:15 pm
 
Careful, reading the bible without the oversight of the all powerful and all wise slave class. (That’s Masters of your faith to you, little camper.) Will lead to strange and unusual conclusions. Next thing you know, you’ll belive you possess a conscience.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 jeff canning says:

 October 4, 2015 at 8:13 pm
 
good stuff John, glad to see you had some Aussies in the film. Down under we Have Paul Grundy J W Facts doing similar good work to rid the planet of this family destroying crowd. Jeff C
Reply
 
 
 Grace says:

 October 4, 2015 at 8:40 pm
 
This video is a valuable tool for those waking up. The illusion that apostates are devilish can be quashed.
We have told a few still in Jw’s that we consider ourselves apostates to jw.org & that it’s not a word to be scared of.
 All it means is that we’re people living in a free world exercising our right to freedom of thought & speech. It’s sad when you see “satan’s governments” being democratic & the “truth” that supposed to set you free is nothing more than mental slavery.
Reply
 
 
 ScotWm says:

 October 4, 2015 at 8:42 pm
 
JWsurvey’s four years of service came at the perfect time. Prior to 2011, typical Jehovah’s witnesses would suppress their doubts about the Governing Body’s claim that the Watchtower is God’s visible earthly organization. But after 2011, bizarre changes instituted by the Governing Body became difficult to ignore. During the same time frame, the Watchtower’s child sex abuse cases have become impossible for even the most hard-core witness to shrug off.
JWsurvey has addressed many of these Watchtower problems over the last 4 years: Watchtower founding father Charles Russell was demoted from the faithful slave class. The asinine overlapping generation teaching became the latest lie used to support the false 1914 doctrine. The seven “anointed” members of the Governing Body claimed that they alone comprise the faithful slave and that surviving the great tribulation requires complete obedience to them. The Watchtower is currently instituting desperate austerity measures and is now begging for money.
Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t need to look beyond than their own JW dot ORG website to find reasons to doubt the validity of Watchtower doctrines and teachings. Just watching the video presentations made by the Governing Body members are enough to sound alarm bells. At a time when many witnesses are realizing that they belong to a destructive religious cult, JWsurvey is here to help them make a transition into a normal life.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 4, 2015 at 9:45 pm
 
@ScotWm .. You ENCAPSULATE PERFECTLY ALL the Reasons since 2011 why the Governing Body is SUCH A FRAUD!! I commented in a Watchtower Study about 6 Months Ago that there are NO GREEK or HEBREW Words for …. ‘ GOVERNING BODY’ in the Bible!!! …. There was an AUDIBLE DEATHLY GASP from Many in the Congregation & the Watchtower conductor found it hard to get comments after that as Brothers & Sister were Mentally trying to GRASP the Meaning to what I said !! I KNEW by certain brothers & Sisters turning their backs on me after the meeting & some were trying to avoid conversation with me & ALL BECAUSE I SPOKE the TRUTH…. This is HOW WICKED, MANIPULATIVE & EVIL these 7 MEN ARE that they INSTILL THIS FEAR in PEOPLE to SPEAK THE ‘REAL TRUTH’!!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 4, 2015 at 9:57 pm
 
To ALL of YOU that have Related How You Feel & Your Experiences Really Shows CEDARS(Lloyd) How Much he is Appreciated !! .. So Let’s All of Divert our WASTED CONTRIBUTIONS to these 7 CHARLATANS who are No Better than Bygone SNAKE OIL SALESMEN & Lets DONATE to Cedars Website which can Help COMFORT & Give a SUPPORT NETWORK to Those who are STRUGGLING EMOTIONALLY with the Mental Cruelty that these 7 SILLY LITTLE PYGMIES Impose on People …. NO WAY do they REPRESENT CHRISTLIKE BEHAVIOUR !!
Reply
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:07 am
 
EXCELLENT COMMENT! Something fitting I read on a completely unrelated YouTube video which I wish to share here:
“Don’t lie to the internet. We don’t need a polygraph to know truth.”
Now ain’t that the truth, Jack?
Finally, THE TRUTH ABOUT THE “TRUTH” is coming to light. Yes indeed, “the light is GETTING BRIGHTER” and is shining on the cockroaches in Brooklyn!
We all know that there will ALWAYS be those few self-righteous, arrogant, never-made-a-mistake brothers and sister that will go down with this ship who will NEVER admit they were wrong. How could they? This is all THEY KNOW and they GAVE UP SO MUCH TO STAY IN THIS CULT SO TO LEAVE NOW WOULD BE THE BIGGEST SLAP IN THEIR FACE! But I say good! Let their own pride and arrogance destroy them. It will. Believe me. The more arrogant and prideful you are to admit wrong, the deeper those roots go into your soul.
Investing in psychiatric hospitals and medicines should prove to be very lucrative when 8 million JW’s are left without their mental crutch!
Reply
 
 
 
 Kat says:

 October 4, 2015 at 10:37 pm
 
So very encouraging this video for all of us struggling and some even after many years, but hopefully active JW will also view this as I am so convinced that many feel the way TEXAS said.
TEXAS, my heart goes out to you, I understand as I am in a similar position, you have support here and just keep in contact, talk and make friends outside the org, it really helps.
Thanks to all involved and cedars for your outstanding work and care!
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 4, 2015 at 10:38 pm
 
@LOL … Ahhh …the RETURN of the INTELLECTUAL !!! …. A Bit Like the RETURN of the JEDI !!!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 7:26 am
 
Didn’t Jesus have some tough love for Laodiceans? I believe he emphasised their ‘lukewarm’, apathetic nature three times.
Oh wait no, Is Laodicean messenger saying we are lukewarm…. hard to imagine when we have been heated up to boiling point within the fiery condemning waters of the WT.
I still find it amusing that some will come to ‘apostate’ websites when they are told not to. It’s a bit like a MOD going into a Biker bar….. sure the door is open but it begs the question ‘why?’
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:12 am
 
@Tara .. MODS & ROCKERS.., Those were the Good Old Days!!!
Reply
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:43 am
 
@Tara.i replied to your question about how congregation responded to sundays letter after it being read out on the previous post Lloyd did .Quite a Funny interchange between an Elder & me on the Saturday!!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 11:23 am
 
Want to remind everyone here about the importance of sharing this video everywhere. Facebook, Twitter, snapchat, Instagram, etc… We really need this video to go viral in order to save lives. Lets get it out there.

 
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 1:25 pm
 
will go look. :)

 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 6:01 pm
 
Once a biker chick always a biker chick….
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Exhausted says:

 October 4, 2015 at 11:07 pm
 
Positively inspiring. I was on the other side for years,
 Painfully shunning members of my own family, thinking
 I was rightly doing so. Then, after time, I realized that
 Was as wrong as two left shoes, I woke up primarily after
 The Bethelite who sold my mom a book, called me and
 Said he was counting on some money from my Gram’s
 Estate after her death, because he mistakenly took their
 Kindness as a token inheritance. We had a business so
 He assumed we didn’t need the money. It appalled me.
 the book was Let God be True back in The very early 50’s.
 It was never my fault to compensate for the choices these
 Guys make. Now, after years of shunning, I am pretty
 Much a loner. This sight gives me a smile.
Reply
 
 Awake! says:

 October 4, 2015 at 11:15 pm
 
SSnakessssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 2:14 am
 
@Awake…The 7 VIPERS ?? Of BROOKLYN??
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 5, 2015 at 3:05 am
 
@Pickled Brain? How about Snow White and the “7 Dwarfs”? JUST SAYIN! lol
Reply
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 12:37 pm
 
@Holy connoli . Yep!;..7 DWARVES!! ..of 7 MIDGETS… What’s in aName.. Just about sums them all up!!

 
 
 
 Awake! says:

 October 5, 2015 at 4:06 am
 
Good one! — Another one to add to the New Theocratic Terminology!!! :)
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:10 am
 
Omg Lord Flash heart and BlackADDER….. they had tight pants you know…WOOF
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 5, 2015 at 4:23 pm
 
That’s disgusting but not surprising. How amazing of the title of the old book. “Let God Be True”. Ha ha.
Reply
 
 
 
 Donald duck says:

 October 4, 2015 at 11:39 pm
 
Why do you visit this website? Are you searching for the truth? Most of us are so fed up with the lies and manipulation, so we look to it sources to understand it all… What’s your reason for visiting?
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 2:20 am
 
@Donald duck.. I presume you are referring to our VISITING INTELLECTUAL..@LOL…it means LOLLIPOP BRAIN…COLD HEART on the Outside & COLD HEARTED ON THE INSIDE!!!
Reply
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 6:10 am
 
@Lol .. Looks like your unkind comment has been Removed by the moderators of this site.. If you are still Lurking & Reading these comments ,Please be Reassured i still think of you FONDLY FONDLING Your LOLLIPOP…if you pardon my English.!! No hard Grudges??..Ohhh Alright MAYBE a FEW
 MAY you be BLESSED by the 7 VIPERS of BROOKLYN! ..MAY i HEAP FIERY COALS on YOUR HEAD in the words of the Apostle Paul…WILL 2 TONS of Fiery Coals on your head be ENOUGH??? With FOND AFFECTION!; Pickled Brain
Reply
 
 
 
 
 RC says:

 October 5, 2015 at 2:38 am
 
It may seem off topic but was this the Watchtower plan all along to say that we need more money to construct new Kingdom Hall and then say they dont have enough . Was there any new construction done in the first place. I mean in countries other than US and UK. I am from India and i remember seeing the worldwide donation box when i visited my cousin’s Kingdom Hall.
Reply
 
 
 Lester says:

 October 5, 2015 at 3:26 am
 
what a wonderful, short , joyful video!
Reply
 
 
 Truthsetsfree87 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 4:51 am
 
Thank you Cedar and all the others! after over 30 years I have been set free for the last two years ! Although laying low as not to be DF, for my children and family are still ignorant as to the real organization. I hope one day I also can be apart of a video like this! No longer a slave to watchtower lies that have bothered me for the past 15 years.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:50 am
 
You’re in the same position as most of us. However, I’ve chosen to “use this short time wisely” (LOL I love using WT quotes against them! :) ) before my family and friends wake up on their own, to help others I know.
Send anonymous emails to everyone in your address book and ask them questions about 587/1914. Send them the link from herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t1T-MFZiHs
 to use the WT’s very OWN literature to prove that Jerusalem wasn’t destroyed in 607! Or from the thousands of resources on the internet!
Print out flyers questioning this or other false teachings and distribute them in the Kingdom Hall parking lots 30 minutes before the meeting starts or the night before (Saturday night). I mean if a wind happens to catch your stack of papers and it flies everywhere, then it must be another sign from Jehovah! If the stack stays in place while you distribute it then, it is still a sign from Jehovah because of the “overlapping generations of the four winds” of hot air. Either way, it is a sign and we must look at it that way.
Reply
 
 
 
 StartrekAngel says:

 October 5, 2015 at 5:12 am
 
You really need to think about the effect this site has on people. You see the testimonies, no more needed. Why do I open my comment like these? You really need to consider having a Spanish version of this site. There is so much ignorance and so very few resources available for the Spanish speaking crowd. It is no wonder that Latin America is the place where the WT is getting his bigger growth. Last week during the WT study people were still commenting that the FD&S was all of the anointed. Even the elder conducting the study agreed. Another elder had to jump in and correct everyone.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:17 am
 
http://www.extj.com for Spanish and links from there will take you further down the rabbit hole of jw secrets.
Reply
 
 
 
 The Laodicean Messender says:

 October 5, 2015 at 6:42 am
 
[off-topic comment removed – please read our posting guidelines before posting again, thank you]
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:59 am
 
Are you the ghost of c.t. Russell? Speaking to us from the grave? The pyramid has spoken. …
Reply
 
 
 
 Hippie says:

 October 5, 2015 at 7:09 am
 
Hi Cedars, I want to thank you so much for helping me wake up last year. Your website and all the other websites contributed to my waking up. After waking up, I have realised that it is a cult . I have many family in and I am trapped inside this cult. :(
 It is sad and angering to see how many of them are ignorant and mindless zombies . The biggest fact is , they don’t know they are brainwashed and that’s they are the way they are.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 5, 2015 at 7:48 am
 
Each topic runs a little longer .I wonder if we could all who visit this site just say thanks if nothing else. Some of us have become quite vocal as we awaken , because it is necessay to voice our thoughts .It’s not just to get an airing, it is because we want to help any who are crying and grieving over all this loss we suffer collectively. Each of us have a unique story, all have found common ground here. For me i think i was staring in the jaws of death for the third time. and it may have been third time lucky but as one of the comments above said they stumbled upon this site (me too) and i was wowed. All these like minded people and fair minded too. I started to read daily and things get better and stronger.How can you thank an anonymous person out there? words seem a bit too little but i do thank you Lloyd so very very much. We may never meet or agree about religion but I do know whatever the driving force that motivated you has made something bigger than your original intention.It’s a GREAT work that you do . I dont want to degenerate into wtower speech, ive had enough saccharin to last a life time.But to the team, the lovely faces out there who spoke for us in the dark,Lloyd and your probably most patient wife and darling daughter with love and true gratitude and tears too, thanks.ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 5, 2015 at 7:53 am
 
Oh how I wish I could make my own public video and “come out of the coffin” and join these people! But I have a work to do, along with my Bethel contacts and others. The “harvest work is great, but the workers are few” so you know what we need to do!
The unfortunate fact is all of those people are now “burned” – in other words, their cover is blown. It seems to me that most of those people are mentally stable and sufficiently cunning enough to remain undercover and help expose this cult for what it is! So please consider working from the inside as many more good loving people need your help to wake up! If you are planning on publicly resigning yourself, consider helping to spread the word while your JW “friends” still listen to you. Ask them questions about 587/1914. *****Use the Watchtower’s OWN publications to prove that 1914 is WRONG.***** Once you do that, the entire premise of the JW cult is no longer valid. I don’t think you need to even mention the other dozens of false teachings once the 1914 doctrine is blown. Do you know why the GB is always reminding us to NEVER EVEN LISTEN TO APOSTATE MATERIAL? Because they know that once that “seed of truth” is planted, the whole cult is exposed!
Break free! Free yourself from the control of MEN, the very thing JESUS warned you about! Free your mind! Free your soul! :)
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:07 am
 
Very well stated, Ur. We will definitely keep working from the inside knowing that when the grass is cut the snakes will show. They are truly trying to round up desenters.
Reply
 
 
 
 StrongHaiku says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:04 am
 
Thank you Lloyd. That video made my day. And to the ones out there struggling, please remember as many have stated already, YOU ARE NO ALONE.
And, most importantly, whatever life you make for yourself when you leave, you will sometimes have a hard time and make mistakes. This is natural as most of us did not learn how to navigate in the real world. Further, many of your JW relatives and friends may point to your failings as a reason you should have stayed. Please be gentle with yourself and know that you are better than their God, better than their religion, and better than most of them.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:58 am
 
This is what many in that video have come to realize about the organizationhttp://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 11:00 am
 
This is what many in that video have come to realize about the org. John 8:32


Reply
 
 
 covertfade says:

 October 5, 2015 at 12:40 pm
 
Just want to say a massive thank you to Lloyd and everyone involved in JW Survey, and the EX-JW online community in general. When my doubts first started to seriously fracture my faith, and I took those first terrifying steps online to research my own religion, JW Survey, JW Facts and JW Recovery were there to welcome me, hold my hand, coach me in breaking my indoctrination and give me the independently verifiable information I needed to prove that the WT cult was a sham. Most of all, I learned that these evil “Apostates” were actually some of the kindest, most reasonable and morally upright people I’d ever met, and that these very qualities were often the reason driving them to leave a cold, unreasonable and legalistic cult.
You guys saved my life, and now I can finally LIVE it, as the real and authentic me and not some inauthentic cult zombie drowning in cognitive dissonance and wasted opportunities.
Thank you.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 5, 2015 at 4:16 pm
 
Seeing that this is a rather historical event for JWSurvey, I just wanted to clarify something I wrote down on my survey the other day, that I should have elaborated on. Over the years, you forget things that were important at the time, but certain things come back that were significant in your life. I elaborated in one of the questions about what websites had been instrumental in my leaving. I put down silentlambs.org and watchtowernews.org but I forgot that the watchtowernews was from Randall Watters Freeminds.org website which is still running, I just found out.
He is very brave and has been doing this for a long time like John Cedars ( not quite as long of course, but having a big impact all the same), Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson who have given so much to make a stand against the very powerful Watchtower Society or the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Powerful in the fact, that they call everyone who leaves and disagrees with them an apostate and also in that they have had an arsenal of lawyer/slaves to do their dirty work for them creating a witchhunt for all these people. This video is like icing on the cake and giving the finger to their cult and cruel dictatorship. I hope it gets viewed far and wide.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 6, 2015 at 4:38 pm
 
Sorry, I should have said Lloyd Evans instead of John Cedars. My apologies to Lloyd.
Reply
 
 
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 October 5, 2015 at 5:27 pm
 
OT – the new format “No. 1” WT for 2016 is now live… http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp201601/
 Reply
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 6:08 pm
 
I just went to look at it and was about to download when I though…. nope, they can give me a paper copy that I’m not donating for… hey we all have to do our bit for the downfall eh. every little helps. Then I had a thunk to myself… I may not even be at the hall by then so why worry about tomorrow when today has enough wine to see me through.
Cheers and clink clink
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 5, 2015 at 7:40 pm
 
Well, in the comic book world, a #1 edition can end up being very valuable down the road. Especially with the WT starting to look like it might be a “limited series”. I think I might have to get one. (This is the first time I’ve wanted a WT in over 6 years, lol.)
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:49 pm
 
Do you think the GB would sign it for us?
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 6, 2015 at 12:59 am
 
Of course! If we throw them a few bucks…

 
 
 
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:22 pm
 
@Tara. Eat drink & be Merry for the GB are about to Die in the words of the Apostle Paul! Funny that i had just drunk a glass of Cabernet Merlot when you posted that comment! I know most Ladies like a Glass of Rose’ !!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 John smithe says:

 October 5, 2015 at 6:18 pm
 
24 years baptized , 5 years at bethel , 10 years as an elder , 4 as school overseer and 6 as congregation secretary ! My awakening was slow and gradual . I still marvel at how misguided I was and how sadly I played a part in misguiding others . Had their been sites like jw survey many years ago … I would have enjoyed the ” real life ” that I am enjoying now . Keep up the fine work !
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:46 pm
 
If your still in you can correct some of those past wrongs by pushing the friends to place scripture over anything the WT prints. Sites like this one will take care of the rest. Revelation 22:18-21, Proverbs 30:5,6 Deutoronomy 18:18-22 that goes for anyone else still in, especially if you give public talks. Direct them back to God and away from false prophets before they lose all faith in scripture.
Reply
 
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:34 pm
 
@John Smithe GOOD COMMENT
Reply
 
 
 
 johnsawthelight says:

 October 5, 2015 at 8:54 pm
 
FRIENDS IT IS A PLEASURE TO HAVE SOMEONE LIKE LLOYD TO HANDLE JWSURVEY AND MAN IS HE DOING A GREAT JOB. I FEEL SINCE I BEEN COMING TO THIS SITE THAT I HAVE SLOWED DOWN A LOT ON BOMBARDING THE WATCHTOWER. I NO LONGER SPEW OUT HATE FOR THAT CULT.i HAVELEARNED TO MAKE THOSE 7 OLD BENT OVER MEN MY MAIN TARGET TO DECLARE WAR ON. I ACTUALLY HATE THEM BECAUSE THEY THINK NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING BUT THEM AND TO HANG US IF WE DISAGREE WITH THEM. I believe they have taken so many of them md pills that there is no hope for them. they are hateful. especially that clown in Australia Jackson. I loved it when mr stewart swore him in. mr stewart drug it slowly, to make this creep to let him know that he was now under someone elses power. I know that killed him. I bet he was so dam mad but he had to hide it. how about the times when asked a question he would reply “now t6hats a good question” he did not mean a word he said. Jackson is mr potato head.i cannot stand him. I cant wait to see some of those 7 old sex starved old men get their payback. something has to happen to those 7 creeps. that’s all friends- all you have a nice day or night. love all you. I do feel for those slaves that is 8 million of them- brainwashed and no where to turn to;. they have taken so many of those md pills that there seems no hope for them. in closing you may wonder what a md pill is. it is a mentally diseased pill. lol
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:09 pm
 
I cannot believe that we are the only ones who have seen the light. What does it take to convince the majority to leave before they have to turn the lights off? May God bless all those who have seen the light and may the rest wake up soon. The ship is going down quick.
Reply
 
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 5, 2015 at 10:31 pm
 
@johnsawthelight. EXCELLENT COMMENT & LIKE YOUR USE of CAPITALS!!! You sound as ANGRY at that SMUG PERVERT IDIOT JACKSON as i am!!
Reply
 
 
 

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← Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
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62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses
avatar 
Posted on October 4, 2015

62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah's Witnesses
62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah’s Witnesses

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you will have to be satisfied with remembering October 4th 2015 as the day congregations worldwide were informed of the scrapping of the Theocratic Ministry School – over a week after the news was leaked in advance by a Bethel source.
But if you are a former Jehovah’s Witness, or an “apostate,” you can take pride in thinking of October 4th 2015 as the day when more ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses than have ever before appeared in a single video with a message of love and concern for those still trapped inside the Watchtower organization.
Organized to commemorate the anniversary of this website’s launch on October 4th 2011, the short montage film represents the joint efforts of 62 “apostates” from far-flung corners of the globe. Rather than trying to condemn Jehovah’s Witnesses, the video sets out to debunk the damning stereotypes of apostates as disseminated in Watchtower publications.
Instead of appearing as foaming-at-the-mouth mentally diseased vagrants, the apostates in the video are calm, rational people who have walked away from a religion that causes far more harm than good, and is ultimately untrue.
It is hoped that the video, with its intriguing title, will reach out to as many Jehovah’s Witnesses on YouTube as possible, and get them to rethink their position regarding doing objective research into their cherished beliefs.


[Please note: Due to a music rights issue, the video does not play on all handheld devices.]
JWsurvey Day was first announced at the end of August, and the collaborative video was given the working title of “What you DON’T know about apostates.” A Facebook group was set up, and the script was made available online for people to choose which lines they wanted to speak.
However, as more and more people signed up for an ever-diminishing number of parts in the video, it became clear that something special was happening. The sheer number of people who wanted to share in delivering the video’s message was an event in itself.
Last night, as the deadline for the video drew close, I stayed up until 4 am making last-minute edits. Over 4 gigabytes of video submissions had to be sorted and whittled down to a final 15-minute short film. As the video took on its own personality I noticed a change was needed. The original title would be scrapped in favor of “62 Apostates Who Love Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (There are actually more than 62 apostates appearing in the film, but because I would rather downplay the figure than exaggerate, I have counted only those who speak in the final edit.)
I sincerely hope that we can do the video justice by making sure it is shared as widely as possible. It’s wonderful to see the enthusiastic response already on Facebook and Twitter from ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are enjoying seeing their own thoughts about Watchtower verbalized by such a wide array of people.
Special mention must also be made of all those who have worked in translating the subtitles for the video. Presently there are 8 languages available, but a further 9 are in the pipeline. Michel Mix (pictured below), a member of the JWsurvey Day group, has done a fantastic job of coordinating the translation project from his base in Colombia.
Oftentimes when I do activism work on my own (for example, a large JW Broadcasting rebuttal), I can find the process genuinely tiring – and even mildly frustrating. But when I am working with so many sincere people, I feel the burden lifted. Activism becomes the unbridled joy it should be. I am working with like-minded individuals who share my passion towards an important goal, which is one of the best feelings you can have in life.
A tribute to JWsurvey
When I first set up JWsurvey, it did feel like “my website” – and I still catch myself speaking in those terms occasionally. But as I look back on the work that has been done and the huge potential for making a difference moving forward, I find those ideas are shifting. JWsurvey is becoming more of a legacy.
In the most recent 2015 survey, one of the questions asks which resources have been most instrumental in the person’s awakening from Watchtower indoctrination. The answers as of October 4, 2015 are as follows…
table
In total, 1,218 have so far credited this website as either very or extremely influential in their awakening. This figure, and the figures for other similar websites, are simply astonishing. It is a sobering reminder of just how much work the internet is doing in chipping away at Watchtower’s stranglehold on people’s minds.
It also means the role of this website is more important than any one single person, which is why I have been gradually expanding our team of writers and illustrators over the past year or so. My eventual aim is to leave JWsurvey in the capable hands of the next generation of activists, to hopefully continue on long after the bulk of my work is finished.
In the meantime, there is still much work to do – work that is made far more enjoyable when I allow myself pause to reflect on what has been accomplished. In that spirit, I hope you will join me in celebrating today, October 4th, as “JWsurvey Day.” And I leave you with some short messages that have been sent in by our readers…
Please note, I haven’t been able to publish all the comments as some are too long, but I will try to find a way of somehow adding some to this article either as links to Word documents or as comments.
***
[Anonymous]
Put simply, JWsurvey enabled me to fully wake up. As an elders daughter who had pioneered – I faded from the organisation aged 21. I wanted to think for myself; I started to have an awareness that my thoughts were being controlled. This was not easy; I left behind my whole community to embark on a journey to educate myself and build a new support network.
Now aged 30, it has only been in the last 18 months that I have been fully awoken and free from JW indoctrination, thank you to JWsurvey and the John Cedars YouTube channel. This intelligent, insightful, educational, humorous and honest website, truly helped me to understand the facts as to why I had left. For this I will be eternally grateful. In the past two years I have been able to live a normal happy life, without any guilt, fear or regret – this is priceless. In addition to this, my child had been born free. One of the greatest gifts I could give him.
Please keep up the good work! You do an amazing job.
Thank you once again.
***
Michel Mix
M.Mix
My name is Michel Mix. I grew up in the truth and got baptized when I was 14 years old. After finishing high school I was advised to go to university. Instead I started a part-time distance education course (which I quit when I married a fellow Jehovah’s Witness), went pioneering and became a ministerial servant.
I always loved studying to Bible, but find out that many teachings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses were un-Biblical and merely human interpretations. It that didn’t bother me too much though, I still thought it was the ‘truth’.
When after many years my marriage broke up, I lost all my faith: I’d dedicated many years of my life to a God who didn’t support me at all. I got into a new relationship and the Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped me from the congregation. My former friends and even family members won’t talk to me anymore. That hurts. A lot.
Sites like JWsurvey.org helped me to realize the truth about the ‘truth’: Jehovah’s Witnesses are not just a religion like all the others. They are WORSE. The indoctrination is overwhelming and there are a lot of victims. All my doubts about teachings that I had in the past, were confirmed. And I found out that many members don’t agree with the teachings, but cannot leave for social reasons.
For me leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses was the best thing I ever did. I’m happy and free! I remarried, moved from The Netherlands to Colombia, enrolled in university and we are expecting a baby. I’ve lost 20 years of my life, but the future is still bright and shining!
***
Yvette Rucker
image4
I became a witness in my early 20s. The promise of a paradise earth where there is peace and unity among all mankind especially between a husband and wife appealed to me.  I wanted this kind of world for my children. I studied and became a witness hoping and praying my husband would too and he did,  but it did not make my marriage better it only made it worse.  My husband believing that I now was scripturally bound to obey gave him total control and he was even more abusive. There came a day when I realize that if I stayed with him he would kill me and our children so I made the decision to leave and I did.
Of course, I was no longer good association because I separated from my husband and eventually divorced him to protect myself and the children.  Being a single mother was hard I had to work 2 jobs to support us but at least we did not have to live in constant fear.  The congregation had little to do with me so I received no help from them I was completely on my own  I missed so many meetings trying to work and take care of my children. 
My older daughter introduced me to your website because she no longer believed it was the truth, because of the way we were treated.  She pointed out scriptures that showed that her dad was not the loving Christian husband he should have been and that the elders were told and sympathized with him cutting me off from a faith I believed in wholeheartedly all those years.
I did read JWsurvey and all the links as well. JWsurvey helped me loose the fear and guilt that comes with leaving what you come to believe is Gods organization. I have been able to heal and i am still healing.   Thank you so much for the real truth about the Watchtower organization
***
Julia Douglas
2015-09-27 19.34.56
I remember when JWSurvey was just an idea and Lloyd was only known by his pseudonym and had yet to officially break ties with the Watchtower. I had already been disfellowshipped and was using my true identity on Facebook, but that’s not to say I was truly free of the brainwashing and programming. I struggled for a long time… and reading the articles on JWSurvey proved to be a regular source of fact-based, reliable information that I have come to rely on.
It’s always exciting when there is a leak, but more importantly, JWSurvey has been a comfort to the demons plaguing my mind. Lloyd has a remarkable ability to quickly read, digest, comprehend and effectively refute Watchtower propaganda, time and time again. Sensationalism would only detract from the well-reasoned information that JWSurvey presents, and Lloyd does not take short cuts. For all of these reasons, I would say JWSurvey is one of the go to websites that I regularly refer people to, and I hope that Lloyd and his team will continue to maintain the high standards of quality in the days ahead.
***


Patricia Burford
patricia2
 I am a former JW, I left the organization when I was 17. Recently I accepted a bible study from a JW, I was having feelings of disconnect from religion. I thought since I had left the organization at such a young age, maybe I just needed to reintroduce myself and see if I had made a mistake all those years ago because of rebellion and my youth. 

In the few weeks of my study, some issues from my past started surfacing. I had to deal with issues I had pushed back all those years ago. I had a ministerial father who was very abusive and a pioneer mother who had no clue. I went to a congregation where the elders knew what was taking place yet took no action.

I began to wonder why these things were coming to the surface 35 years later. I truly believe that in stages of our life we are led to face our past in order to grow and move forward. This got me to thinking about other JW’s, there had to be others that felt the same as I did and had similar experiences.

So I started to google, and JWsurvey popped up, I dived right in. I spent the whole day reading and watching the video’s. I found answers to questions I have had for years in just those few hours. I learned more about the JW’s and the organization that day, than I had being raised a JW for 17 years. John Cedars (Lloyd) has been there and experienced the same as we have.  He has proof and he backs up everything that he brings to the table. JWsurvey shows what this cult is all about and the information shared is to save us..

I am so grateful for all the work you do.

(Regarding the picture, I am the older gal… This is my daughter and I…)
 


***


Susannah
I left the witnesses aged 27. I am now 60. I have had a good life. I got an education, met some wonderful people and made a new life. I buried my feelings about family and friends. Around the time or just after my JW sister died in 2012, I discovered JWsurvey. I could not believe what I was reading. Lloyd not only understood but wrote about his experience, intelligently, passionately and with a brave honesty. I remember watching him in his car the night he went for his JC. I cried when his father wrote to him, cutting him off. Watching, reading and listening was like being given permission to breath and to speak. JWsurvey has helped me heal when I did not even realise I needed to heal. It has helped me recognise the folly of the beliefs. It let me get in contact with my anger, my sadness, it let me cry and then forgive. This is a cult that has held my family in fear and still does. The fact that JWsurvey exists may mean the next generation will be free. For that I am grateful.


***


Uwe Schoning
I da/df myself in 2003 … but defended the JWs and their policies a long time. Somehow in 2011 this stopped. A year later I knew I had to work up my past and I was searching for people with the same thoughts… that something in the organization was not right!
I found a German forum of escapists but felt like I would never fit in… and then I found JWSurvey.org and the kind words on this page showed me, that the author was indeed empathic and would exactly know what I was thinking. His objective arguments and the information he provided confirmed me… I had not left the truth… I left a dangerous cult. And his non-agressive activism showed me, that it is not a bad thing to be an apostate…
JWSurvey helped me to understand, that the truth about the “truth“ is a story about deluded old men, who think their claim to lead is based on a story Jesus told.
JWSurvey showed me, that apostates do indeed care for the people still caught in the organization… and are indeed good people.
***

Mika
Mika July 2015 40th BDay
My name is Mika from Michigan in the United States. I couldn’t pass up this opportunity to voice how helpful JWSurvey was to me when I found the courage to turn in my letter of disassociation from Watchtower/JW. Although I saw a different activist account and website first, JWSurvey/John Cedars YouTube channel and website were by far the most helpful to me.
Visiting JWSurvey helped me get an idea of what to expect beforehand from the shunning that was sure to and did follow my exit from the religion, I also found needed encouragement and support from the articles and community of posters. I have always favored the honest, logical, balanced approach and visitor feedback your website & YouTube channel affords which made it enjoyable to view/visit.
One thing it helped I’m sure many visitors realize, is the choice we had all along to free, happy lives without instilled fear through cult doctrine. JWSurvey isn’t extremist nor does it promote fairy tales, it simply states the facts and sets an example in speaking up against the harmful effects of cults in an empathetic way that many could relate to.
JWSurvey gave me much courage and support while helping me realize freedom and peace of mind were already mine, I only need reclaim it from the undue influence of the cult that influenced me to believe otherwise. JWSurvey educated me on effective ways I could help others. I know it would have been more challenging for me had I not came across your activism efforts, but I am beyond grateful that I did.I don’t want to sound overly dramatic here, but it is true when I sum it up in one sentence, JWSurvey helped me reclaim long-overdue emotional freedom and joy in my life.
THANK YOU!
 
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Further reading…
◾Hemant Mehta’s “Friendly Atheist” article on the 62 Apostates video
Video trailers…






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← Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing →
 
475 Responses to 62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses

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 Not Alone says:

 October 5, 2015 at 9:03 pm
 
Bravo!
 I’m an “Apostate” who remains trapped within the org. A victim of marital separation (Because that’s ok with Jehovah whereas Divorce is not…), my child would be turned against me if I left.
 This video was so spot on! I hope many a thinking witness view it to break down their fears. I am in complete agreement. I love a majority of those in the congregation – They are genuinely good people who are trying to lead good lives. I do not hate JWs, I hate the lies. I do not wish to “draw off disciples for myself”, I just want to be free to worship God from the heart, without all the “traditions of men” WT imposes. Mentally diseased? Actually, yes – I little bit! But not from my learning about 587 BCE or Beth Sarim. I actually almost lost my mind from the societal isolation and cognitive dissonance which comes from being a JW! Since my awakening, I have fully regained my mental strength and stability.
For those still inside and awakening, I tell you, You are NOT alone. I personally know of MANY in my surrounding congregations who have either already awakened and left or, like myself, are stuck inside due to the devastating threat of shunning by family members. There is just too much information available on the Internet for any thinking person to ignore.
Again to the contributors of this video – Bravo…
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 3:59 am
 
@Not Alone- You are not alone. The fear of shunning is the only factor keeping most JW’s from leaving. The GB knows this. They also know that the internet is their greatest enemy, because you can’t lie to the internet.
FEAR is what prevents many JW’s from going on the internet and discovering the TRUTH about “the truth!”
I know for myself, the fear of finding out that my religion is a cult filled with lies kept me for several years from actually doing research. At first, when I discovered, for example, that the 607/1914 teaching is WRONG, I DISMISSED it as LIES. I remember shutting off my monitor and turning away in disbelief. I even said, “Satan is really the ruler of this world and is blinding people…”
Then, something made me go back and verify the 607/1914 data. I researched every text referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and then USING THE WATCHTOWER’S OWN LITERATURE, I came to the conclusion, Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 607! IT COULD NOT BE! And if that DATE is INCORRECT, the entire raison d’etre of this organization is DEAD. There was no significance of 1918, 1919 and definitely not 1914! Which means, everything is wrong.
Now don’t get me wrong- if you are a religious person in need of a spiritual crutch to numb your mind from the harsh realities of existence and death, some of the WT’s “interpretations” of the scriptures are better than most religions. That said, shouldn’t “God’s only organization” be right about everything? 1914 is a biggie…
Reply
 
 Dee Griffiths says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:44 am
 
“……if you are a religious person in need of a spiritual crutch to numb your mind from the harsh realities of existence and death, some of the WT’s “interpretations” of the scriptures are better than most religion’s”.
This was what trapped me in the JW religion for years – the prospect of an earthly paradise sounded very nice.
 The best way to overcome this trap, is to surround yourself with a good support system of friends and relatives who genuinely care about you and you them, so that the camaraderie will help to soften the blows from the harsh realities of this life.
Reply
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 4:11 am
 
One more thing I forgot to mention was since you are in this position, I am sure you still have contacts and addresses. Use that to help these lost souls! Send them anonymous emails with links to this video or other videos that you found useful. Text message them with questions about 607 or this new “overlapping generations” bullshit. Post videos on Facebook. Don’t bombard them with things about the WT’s financial standings, why the sudden reduction in growth, child abuse scandals and other things like that. They will dismiss all of that as “errors made by men…”
The whole premise of this organization is about 1914 and the “Faithful Slave Class.” If that can be shown to be absolutely UNTRUE, there is no reason to stay in this cult. It is that simple. Once they discover that, the rest of the filth and lies will fall into place and they will see this cult for what it is! As the WT always likes to say, “the light is getting brighter in these last days!” What they forgot to mention was the light is getting brighter on their bullshit and this cult is in its LAST DAYS!
Reply
 
 Rose Graziano says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:11 pm
 
Your comment is spot on!! Everything falls on the fact that Jehovah is using the faithful slave and 1914 was the year the kingdom was established. Once someone can see that this is not true, the house of cards come toppling down.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Awake! says:

 October 5, 2015 at 11:34 pm
 
Here’s something to think about, for any still-believing or even half-believing JWs perusing this site (and I AM trying to help, not just telling you this to be a d*ck): When your elders walk into the KH, they don’t see you and think, “Oh, look at all my lovely sheep.” They’re thinking, “OK, let me get my game face on, so all these suckers can look up to me and hang off every word I say.”
Believe it or don’t… 😉
Reply
 
 Awake! says:

 October 5, 2015 at 11:55 pm
 
Sorry, maybe the term “suckers” was a little harsh, but you get what I’m driving at.
Reply
 
 
 
 Awake! says:

 October 5, 2015 at 11:49 pm
 
Would it not be awesome and amazing if all 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses became Apostates??? We could throw a party bigger than Dec. 31, 1999!!! For non-ex-JWs as well. The whole world would be invited for a month-long bash! Everything could shut down for 30 days of revelling. Like a Mega Woodstock, with dancing and singing and drinking and smoking things. It could go down in history as the greatest party ever. And perhaps the first time an entire religion was voluntarily abolished by its own members!
 I know, it’s Pie in the Sky.
 But who knows?…
Reply
 
 Floyd Edwards says:

 October 6, 2015 at 2:37 am
 
Excellent… if there was alike button I would have clicked on it for your party comment … Cheers
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 5:51 am
 
@Awake .. Brilliant Idea & the MAIN THEME SONG of this Mega Woodstock could be say ‘HAPPY’ by PHARRELL WILLIAMS??? I am sure other suggestions will be forthcoming at what songs could be Sung!!
Reply
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 October 6, 2015 at 12:15 am
 
@Llyold Evans, I may not know how to pronounce your name as Jehovah’s Witnesses do not know how the name “JEHOVAH” or “YAHWEH” was pronounced by Moses…! They use that “holy name” to shake the world and I use yours to say “you are a hero…”!
I compare you with many strong people who have saved lives of many… like… “a physician named John Snow [who] had suggested that cholera was caused, not by contaminated air, but by contaminated water. (g 10/10 p. 20; http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=%22John+Snow%22&p=par )!!
“Contaminated spiritual food and water” JWs consume harm families more than cholera does today. Keep up good work and legacy.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 5:54 am
 
@Hakizamana .. NICE COMPARISON … I would Mark you ‘GOOD’ on your Slip but the School will soon be in the ABYSS.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 6, 2015 at 6:27 am
 
Although I share appreciation for Lloyd’s work, he is not in the same league as John Snow!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:34 am
 
John Snow also let us know winter was coming, but sadly his watch has ended.
Reply
 
 Dblaron42 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:33 am
 
Whose time will end next season?
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:40 am
 
Awake,
That would be good. We could have our own 3 day convention.
Pickled Brain can organise the drama entitled “The Rise & Fall of the 7 evil, deluded, midget, dwarf, pigmy, vipers!”. Did I miss any? It would have to be “m” rated though due the violent ending of heads being blown off.
My preferred ending would be like a Greek tragedy where the story ends with that sweet, powdered drink.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 5:47 am
 
@Grace.. How About a ….’ WARWICK TRAGEDY’!!!
Where The 7 MENTAL MIDGETS /VIPERS/PYGMIES DIE an AGONISING SLOW DEATH from MERCURY POISONING by CONTAMINATED DRINKING WATER in the Groundwater Supplies at their NEW HQ!!! Then the 7 Bodies could be CREMATED & the MERCURY ASHES could be RECYCLED in Thermometers !! …I Knew I WASTED my TALENTS by Pioneering !! I should have been a WARWICK Director & Playwright producing Warwick Tragedies!!
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:32 am
 
That’s no drama – it’s a pantomime!
Reply
 
 
 
 M. says:

 October 6, 2015 at 2:54 am
 
Love this video: excellent video – well done
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 3:20 am
 
Lloyd and everyone at JWSurvey, I want to thank you all again, from the bottom of my heart, for what you do is truly “life saving work.” You are making history!
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 6, 2015 at 5:49 am
 
H”* Business tablets exist for all the years traditionally attributed to the Neo-Babylonian kings. When the years that these kings ruled are totaled and a calculation is made back from the last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 B.C.E. However, this method of dating works only if each king followed the other in the same year, without any breaks in between.” Watchtower 2011 Nov 1 p.24 footnote.
 WT, admits that documentary evidence regarding reigns of Babylonian
 kings indicates a 587 BCE date for Jerusalem’s destruction.
 Then proceeds to fill in the missing 20 years with guesswork,
 conjecturing that there were breaks between reigns. And this
 without the slightest scrap of evidence in support.
Hardly surprising then that the “Alleged Apostate” ranks are growing
 rapidly.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 6:09 am
 
@Ted .. SO SO RIGHT in your ANALYSIS !! That’s what Carl Olaf Jonson found out & was ostracised for ! Then Grant Suiter on the GB in about 1979 came up with the idea of ‘SPUTNIK’ put into Space in 1957 being Part of the SIGNS in the Heaven might be start of Christs Second Presence to try & Move the ‘GENERATION ‘ interpretation !! But due to the Majority Voting on the GB at the time which Ray Franz highlighted in ‘Crisis of Conscience ‘ it was Voted Against!! Doesn’t this show us all that the GB are NO WAY directed by HOLY SPIRIT , but React when TIME is Against the GB Interpretations of Scripture & they PANIC & try & come up with something EQUALLY RIDICULOUS like …. OVERLAPPING GENERATION ???
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 6:57 am
 
@Ted- Thanks for pointing that out. The evidence proving beyond a doubt that 607 is INCORRECT is absolutely OVERWHELMING. The astronomical data and records ALONE prove with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that Jerusalem fell in 587. Worse still, the WT in its own tangled web of lies and bull—- literature proves that 607 is wrong.
On that basis alone, the whole WT organization is a fraud. No need to dig up the dirty secrets and scandals and failed prophecy, failed dates, misquotes, etc. Without 607, there is no 1914. Without 1914, everything turns out to be a lie. And indeed, it is.
As incredible as it may be for JW’s to accept that their entire belief structure is a fraud, it doesn’t change the facts.
Thank “YHWH” for the internet!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 7, 2015 at 3:48 am
 
Ted to add to your comment, on page 23 of that article, at the bottom of the page there is a footnote that reads: Note: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.
How many of us looked at that footnote? I didn’t notice it and I doubt very much if hardly anybody else noticed it either and I think the reason was because it wasn’t a study article where people actually “study” the article.
Most of us would have read that article thinking that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607, believing that our “mother” wouldn’t lie to us. We would have trusted our “mother”. If we read that article, we would not have believed that our “mother” was playing us all for fools.
We always trust our mothers and we were led to believe that when we became part of the “family” of Jehovah’s Witnesses that they would not take advantage of us. That is what we were led to believe when got involved with the Organization, our “mother” but we were taken in by an Organization that will say and do anything to maintain it’s facade of “caring” people, who would be there for us, through thick and thin but we were taken in by lies and we all know who their father is, don’t we?
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:56 am
 
It’s pretty obvious.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 EverydayExplorer says:

 October 6, 2015 at 6:02 am
 
Beautiful, moving video; inspirational stuff!
Many thanks to all so bravely involved. I will do my best to share the film, which I suspect will turn out to be seminal in the history of spotlighting the WT Soc’s abuses of its followers.
WT Soc monitors of this site, be sure the sins of your man-made organisation will find you out. It might be well for you to start preparing redress guidelines for the cruelty that has been/still is being engendered by WT Soc policies.
Reply
 
 
 Baby says:

 October 6, 2015 at 6:41 am
 
after leaving jehova’s organization what hope do you have now? How will you follow the order of Jesus in Matt 28: 19,20? how will follow the order heb 10: 24,25?
Reply
 
 Susannah says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:01 am
 
Don’t need to – stop following orders, when I realised loving people was better.
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:06 am
 
@Baby– And THERE is the retort that millions of JW’s use to justify their ignorance. I know, because I was there defending everything we were taught. To answer your question, I know it may be hard for you to grasp this simple concept that will shatter everything you were brainwashed to believe but the answer is quite simple. Are you ready?
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
Reply
 
 Markw1509 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 8:36 am
 
Bravo, here-here. Lovely point, and so true.
I would have said the same as baby 10 years ago when I was blind. But now I see.
 Hope baby comes to see TTaTT soon
Reply
 
 
 
 David says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:21 am
 
please find in the Bible a single verse where it says “Jehovah’s organisation”. It is a term invented by a modern corporation. All the New Testaments accounts of people becoming Christians were accepting the authority God and his Son in their lives. Today the governing body of the jw.org have replaced the role of Jesus and you need to recognise them to be saved. What a crazy teaching!
 They teach a different gospel and one day they’ll realise the fraud they are. Joining a denomination does not make God happy.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:37 am
 
Notice how the GB love to use certain words like “the TRUTH,” or “JEHOVAH’S organization,” or “JEHOVAH’S flock” etc and etc to describe their cult- as if, yes, JEHOVAH MUST BE DIRECTING THIS ONLY ORGANIZATION CALLED THE TRUTH!
These snakes must have PhD’s in psychology. Every tactic they use PROVES that this is a cult. From shunning to the clever words they use to manipulate us! It makes me so angry.
Reply
 
 David says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:43 am
 
Saying spring water does not make it water really spring water. You need to test it.
The jw.org have missed the target by a century and counting. They failed the test!
Obviously they use big words such ‘only true Christians’, the truth, Jehovah’s organisation.
The words have an effect to the mind of people and blur the thinking ability. But if you really start to test their claims, IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE!
Hoe can you be a truth lover and teach the overlapping generation doctrine? it is just desperation to cover years of failures.
Reply
 
 pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 10:27 am
 
@David … EXACTLY the OVERLAPPING GENERATION Doesn’t Make Sense & as you say the 7 STUPID MIDGETS are just trying to COVER UP PAST MISTAKES!!

 
 
 Baby says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:18 am
 
You can’t prouv it

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:59 am
 
Such a deception calling it ‘the truth’. If you repeat that often enough anyone will believe it. That is why it is so hard to get out of your head when you are trying to leave.

 
 
 
 
 
 David says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:38 am
 
For example:
 Acts 2:41
 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Did they join your organisation?
 Were those baptised in the first century not true Christians?
 JW org is less the a century old.
Obviously denominations tells their story/sell their product but we are not babies we have brains to understand.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:41 am
 
By sharing Gods word with people I meet, anywhere and everywhere. There are also sites for ex Jw’s who still believe in Gods word, without the jw.org magic filter. There we can meet and encourage each other to keep doing what is right in Gods, not the seven watchers eyes. We haven’t seen what becomes of the watchtower after these truths about their “truth” becomes common knowledge to all. Maybe some of us decide to revert to the old bible student model without the sky is falling agenda. Stay tuned.
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:42 am
 
@Baby … Ahhh the BIBLE SCHOLAR RETURNS … WELCOME !!! FRED FRANZ …RE-INCARNATED as???…… @ Baby…..!! WELL …, FRED??? OHh DEAD ONE , How about Explaining JESUS Words at Mark Ch.9 v38-40 & then Show us Why Jesus DIDN’T Require his Disciples to Follow only ONE ORGANISATION??? .. ALL of US who comment on this site are Fulfilling Hebrews Ch.10v24,25 .
 Secondly Math.28v19,20 to Go & Make Disciples of CHRIST !!!!..NOT AN ORGANISATION ..
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 October 6, 2015 at 11:24 am
 
@ Baby
Baby
 When are YOU going to follow the bible?
 Deuteronomy 18:20-22 says that false prophets are to be put to death. The Governing Body have predicted the end of the world 9 times according to the History Channel. When are you going to go kill them as the bible orders you to? When are you going to fly out to NY to execute justice for dragging Gods name through the mud with all the false prophesy? Chop chop! Fly out to New York and put those false prophets to death otherwise you don’t really follow the bible … you follow a bunch of liars in New York.
Reply
 
 Baby says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:26 am
 
if they are false let God destroy them himself. Why do you wont to do God Job?
The first century christians were also not exact somtimes in thieir inspectations
Reply
 
 David says:

 October 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm
 
If you justify JW mistakes why other religious groups don’t have the luxury to be inexact? Are you sure other Christians have all bad motives?
You are talking about the first century Christians, but let’s see what the Bible say. For example
Acts 1:6,7
 6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
Verse 6 shows that the Christians had expectations. What verse 7 shows? Does it require special skills to understand it?
The governing body think that they know more than God. They ignore God authority by inventing interpretations that are punctually wrong. The number of invented days shows that they totally ignore the Bible.
JWs are used to dates and they have to produce always one.
Also please think what being inexact could mean to people, God’s creatures. Please think, if the they are wrong with the blood policy it means that children have died for NOTHING.
If they are wrong with the inhuman shunning policy it means that families have been destroyed for no reason.
I think Jesus words are exact, “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”
Imagine if you are shunned because you are a JW. If your parent shun you because of your personal choice. Would you like it?
But as a Christian you practice this atrocious practice. Shame on you!
Psalm 146:3 Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.
Do you consider the Bible true? Why you put your total trust in men?
 You will harvest what men can give, NOTHING!
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 2:13 pm
 
@Baby .. Who was your theocratic School Overseer? You haven’t learnt to spell properly .. GO & GET an EDUCATION !!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:02 am
 
@Baby, that scripture at Hebrews is telling people that they can’t be restricted from gathering together. The Watchtower likes to say it’s a “command” to go to the meetings, but it is a command in not restricting people from gathering together.
You should read the Bible without Watchtower publications telling you what they think it means, and what it actually says instead.
When it comes to preaching the message throughout the world, many churches are doing that.
You need to prove to us that God actually chose the Watchtower as his one and only spokesman with proof. Just having good intentions, doesn’t make it the one and only channel of communication between God and men. The Bible is only the channel of communication between men and God (if you believe it) and not an organization of self-proclaimed, spirit directed men who appointed themselves to that position.
Prove to us that God chose the Watchtower organization in 1919 and I will “return to Jehovah”. If you can’t do that, then JW’s are no different than any other religion that the Bible says is worthy of destruction for being a prostitute. They prostituted themselves when they joined the United Nations in 1992. If you are brave, look it up.
The Bible tells people to get out of the “unclean” thing and if a religion teaches lies, then it’s unclean and a person with a working conscience, needs to get out of it and that is what we have done.
Reply
 
 
 
 MimiLove says:

 October 6, 2015 at 6:57 am
 
I still attend some meetings because my mother lives with me and is still very much involved. I use my ipad and when I get bored I surf the net and read real truths about the jw’s…..however in the last month i noticed that our wifi is now restricted to jw.org only! oh well I guess I’ll read downloaded stuff :)
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:21 am
 
@Mimilove. ***WARNING: I’ll give you some insider info. The brothers in my hall regularly go through the web traffic in the router logs. I know they do it at Bethel too. It’s quite easy to see what device was surfing what IP address. They’ve been doing it to hunt down moles, apostates and dissidents they don’t like. So you need to be careful. One method is by using a free proxy. There are dozens of free proxies available if you search. That’s the easiest method for basic computer users. When I’m at the meeting reading that “bad apostate” material, I use an IPv6 subnet to go through the router’s back door. It’s a bit more complicated so I won’t go into details but suffice it to say, it will be impossible for them to found out what sites I am surfing.
I want to say that I am not an IT tech. I just like to keep on top of the technology. But as I advised in my first post a few days ago, the best way to stay in stealth mode is to use your own mobile data plan. You can turn your phone into a Hotspot very VERY easily and connect your tablet so you can surf all you want without fear of discovery or blockage! :) I’d venture to say that eventually all halls with internet access will restrict access to ONLY JW.org for obvious reasons. Control, control control!
Reply
 
 MimiLove says:

 October 6, 2015 at 9:05 am
 
thanks!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Enuffsenuff says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:04 am
 
I keep wondering why they have dropped the Theocratic Ministry School name, and while I am uncertain of the exact format, it seems to me that children are excluded from the presentations and women are just collateral damage in that they get limited exposure for talks. In Australia if you run a “school” then those in charge have to get police background checks to work with children. If kids are excluded then might it be that elders need no longer submit themselves for police scrutiny. When this was first introduced the WT fought the new law tooth and nail. How dare the Govt think that they have some say in who might be eligible for positions in the KH. Since they couldn’t get out of it they have cooperated but with sullen resentment. I wonder if that will now change since the new arrangement “seems” to omit working with children?? Without that check the Congregation has no idea who might be in charge since the WT seems to have an asymmetrical view of who qualifies for positions. I have known of one instance where a molester who had abused his daughter(s), but had a builders ticket that was wanted by Bethel for a construction project. He was not d/f’d and kept in good standing in his hall to enable this use of his ticket. The R and F, never knew. So much corruption, the end always justified the means.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:52 am
 
@Enuffsenuff.. YOU HAVE HIT the PROVERBIAL NAIL on the HEAD!!! EXACTLY … The WORD… ‘SCHOOL’ had to be REMOVED otherwise because of Child Protection certain Laws by Governments would have to be implemented so … BINGO!!… We all have a NEWLY WORDED MIDWEEK MEETING !! The Watchtower LAWYERS are Covering the GBs Back at every turn!!! It Happened back in Rutherfords Time & still happening !!’ Trouble is the ordinary publishers aren’t aware of the SHENNANIGANS behind Closed Doors of Watchtower Lawyers Offices & then it is packaged up as NEW LIGHT or JEHOVAHS CHARIOT Moving Forward !!!
Reply
 
 Dee Griffiths says:

 October 6, 2015 at 9:17 am
 
As the saying goes: “you never see smoke without fire”!
SMOKE: new name for theocratic ministry school.
 FIRE: “In Australia if you run a ‘school’ then those in charge have to get police background checks to work with children. If kids are excluded then might it be that elders need no longer to submit themselves for police scrutiny.”
The new name for the theocratic ministry school is more than likely just a legal workaround/ legal gymnastics at its best – how clever!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 2:34 pm
 
@Dee . Your Comments are SO INSIGHTFUL that the GB are Now TERRIFIED to have the Word … SCHOOL in any of their Meeting Names as then it IMPLIES Teaching Children which LEGALLY REQUIRES CRIMINAL RECORD CHECKS on ELDERS which could be Embarrassing if An Elder was found to Hsve a Dodgy Past!!
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 7, 2015 at 12:28 am
 
If this is true then it really really really should be exposed fast….angry ruthlee

 
 
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:58 am
 
It’s all in the shepherding the flock elder handbook. Those with privileges and their family get free passes in order to not discourage others when a mighty one falls. The rank and file can eat it. I don’t have any children, but grew up in the Borg and really find it hard to see how any child will be invested in meeting now. An hour and forty five minute meeting on a school night in order to listen to men who can barely understand what they are talking about try to errouniously decipher the Borgs twisting of scripture. Maybe every meeting will have a Caleb mascot segment. Where the kids will be brainwashed into kneeling before the great and powerful seven. Maybe parents will continue to push their children to leave school behind in order to become bethelites and special pioneers, just so they can get the boot a couple of decades in. Finding themselves middle aged with no job, home or any real job prospects with their potato education.
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:11 am
 
Hi PB, & Actigall. Ur
 I agree entirely, there’s a complete absence of superhuman
 guidance from beginning to end. Just a load of cockeyed
 ideas thrown together, that requires more craziness ( new
 light ) to keep them afloat.
I think the whole thing probably was borne of the Spirit,
 but the kind that a certain Judge was quite partial to.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:31 am
 
LOL so true. My father has a library of WTBS literature that would rival the society’s own. I remember doing research years back before my awakening, reading what they wrote in the 1920’s and 1930’s and literally laughing out loud. I asked my father about these things and his answer was always the same, “you can see how the light has GOTTEN brighter over the years. That proves that Jehovah and Jesus are directing this organization!” And of course, I would just kind of brush it off and return to my COMFORTABLE cognitive dissonance of lollipops and cotton candy of the new system when “the new scrolls will be opened…” Holy s— man! It’s insanity!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:44 am
 
I have the original book of Russels sermons. You should have seen the elders faces when they visited me one time and saw it…. ‘where did you get this?’ This has a kingdom hall stamp in it’. Yeah well, I was given it by the elders when I made a request for it from the estate of a dead sisters estate. She was a special pioneer in her time and had been given it when it was deemed old and tatty for the shelves… I wonder what gems it contains. I have never read it as it is very delicate. Maybe I should.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:00 am
 
Yes you should! I do believe that CTR was sincere and he had good intentions. That said, let us not forget the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Reply
 
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:19 am
 
@Actigall Ur …, I have Read most of Rutherfords Old Books like Government ,Enemies,etc & I have Read ‘ The Finished Mystery ‘ by Russell alias Clayton Woodworth … AS YOU SAY !! …,,, UTTER INSANITY …. The RAMBLINGS of a LUNATIC !!!! & CHRIST was Meant to have Chosen these NUTTERS as they were Providing ‘FOOD’ at the PROPER TIME???? …. HELPpppp!!!
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 11:46 am
 
@Pickled brain- Yes, I know! Some of the things he wrote about were clearly from a man suffering from delusional paranoia and/or the best damn LSD this side of the 1970’s!
Seriously though, looking back, HOW can ANYONE believe that this man was DIRECTED BY HOLY SPIRIT? As Ted said, he was directed by SPIRIT(UOUS)! LOL
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:53 am
 
@Ted … WHISKEY TALKS !!!
Reply
 
 
 
 Dee Griffiths says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:18 am
 
Excellent video! The origin of the 1914 failed prophecy and its reworking over the years is a must for the next edition of this video as I think this doctrine more than anything else will show people who the governing body really are – a set of delusional liars who just keep perpetuating a lie to save face so that they won’t lose membership and contributions because it’s all about the money.
 Also, on another point – the child sexual molestation cases have been kept under lock and key by the JWs and not reported to the authorities over the years as the governing body wants its members to think that these bad things only happen in false religion or among worldly people not in Jehovah’s organization as Jehovah’s organization is so superior to other religions and the world – we are constantly told that we should have nothing to do with other religions and the world so the governing body had to find a way to keep the child molestation cases quiet by its two witnesses rule if they wanted the rank and file to keep believing that these things only occur in false religion and the world, not in Jehovah’s organization so that they can continue perpetuating their cultic social isolation control by telling Jehovah’s Witnesses that they should have nothing to do with anyone else as everyone else is bad and evil and only Jehovah’s Witnesses are good.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:07 am
 
@Dee Griffits Share this everywhere you can. It has helped me completely awaken one loved one. I just casually shared it as ” look at this video someone sent me, I thought it was one of ours at first. Can you believe what’s in here. I already did the fact checking and its all true!” Sometimes you have to ride the dragon and take risk for family. This time it paid off, hopefully now I have help freeing the rest.
 I know I keep posting it, but we keep getting new people to the site who need an organized quick way to explain what’s behind the curtainhttp://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc
Reply
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:07 am
 
I no longer believe in the bible or any religious text for that matter but I do know the bible inside and out. So it is now my understanding that when the bible speaks about “Armageddon” it is referring to the destruction of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Yes, MISTER Morris and Crew- You should be very fearful of what is about to come. The end is indeed near! The END OF YOUR DECEIT!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
 
Ur, that is this organizations greatest crime of all. Completely sucking any and all faith in the Bible out of people who joined to get closer to the God of the Bible. I respect your choice, hopefully they haven’t stolen prayer from you as well.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 11:38 am
 
@Robert- I wouldn’t say that. If I were born a Catholic, I would have reached the same conclusion as I have here- ALL religion is a racket and a snare. I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God. Again, I am a man of reason and logic. So I did some research.
Did you ever wonder why his biographies were written 30-60 years after he died? Did you ever wonder why not a single person who witnessed his “miracles” (and there were supposedly THOUSANDS of witnesses) bothered to write any of that down or leave SOME recognition of his miracles? Did you ever wonder why there were other men, both real and mythical, before him with nearly identical stories?
Did you ever hear of Horus?
Well, Horus was born to a virgin mother named Isis who gave birth to him in the NILE river. His birth was announced by the star Sirius and three wise men came to visit him at birth. He is baptized in water at the age of 30 by a holy man named Anup the Baptizer, who is later BEHEADED. Oh, did I mention he walked on WATER, RAISED THE DEAD, was crucified and then resurrected after THREE DAYS?
Guess when this story was written? 2400 BCE!
How about Buddha? Everyone knows about him. Right? Guess what? Buddha also performed miracles, WALKED ON WATER, RAISED THE DEAD, fed 500 people from a SINGLE BASKET OF BREAD and was later transfigured on a “mount” or hill. Hmmmm. When was this? 560 BCE.
And roughly the same story for- Osiris, Krishna, Odysseus, Romulus and so on.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 October 6, 2015 at 12:20 pm
 
@Actigall Ur, anyone with retional thinking will not only questions Jesus’ being from the Son of God, but the entire Bible as Book of God.
(2 Samuel 21:1) . . .Now there was a famine in the days of David for three consecutive years, so David consulted Jehovah, and Jehovah said: “There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibʹe·on·ites to death.. . .
How can a person with rational thinking make a relationship between death of the Gibʹe·on·ites and famine.
Was there a famine following this TERRIBLE CARNAGE? (Numbers 31:15-17) . . .Have you preserved all the females alive? 16 Look! They are the ones who by Baʹlaam’s word induced the Israelites to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Peʹor, so that the scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah. 17 Now you should kill every male among the children and kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man.
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 6, 2015 at 12:59 pm
 
That, raises some interesting questions, like did they recruit 100 gynecologists to make that decision. …it seems always to come down to sex, power,and money, and what people will do to protect there own rights at the expense of yours.

 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:22 pm
 
@Hakizimana- Believe me, I was questioning the stories in the bible since I was 8. When I asked my parents how and why a loving God would ask his own people supposedly to go and kill men, women, children AND ANIMALS in his name, I always got the same absurd answer- “Jehovah’s JUSTICE AND WISDOM IS ABOVE OURS SO WE SHOULD NEVER QUESTION IT.”
Yeah, ok.

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:40 pm
 
We can’t allow ourselves to be carried away by others brain farts, we might as well kneel before the seven again. It’s funny how you get to the truth of the matter if you just stick to the source and not philosophical rantings about the source. That goes for any religion.

 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:22 pm
 
As far as Horus goes from sources online— -I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus. The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity.
When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims. this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927. He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt. He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation. The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead. This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself. Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture.
It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus. According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities. There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.
 Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin.
Horus’s mother is Isis. Isis was married to Osiris. We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated. Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though. After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake. Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus. There is nothing virginal about that.
Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)
As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary. In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is. Seb is Osiris’s father. Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph. Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.
Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.
This is accurate.
Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds.
I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds. I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds. In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave. Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave.
Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels.
There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it. Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus. When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth. To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm
Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.)
There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen. The bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus. See the website referenced in Claim #5.
Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them.
There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus. so this is accurate.
Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed.
There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12. In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.” That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple. Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others.
Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories. In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer. This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account. There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this. There is nothing.
Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples.
According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers. There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did. Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.
Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers. Horus is not present in this scene. For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural. In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy. Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus. Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene. They did not.
Claim #10-Both walked on water.
Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did. Massey does not maintain that Hours did. Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus. Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night. Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day.
As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this.
Claim #11-Both performed miracles.
This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.
Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus.
The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus. It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life. There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story. Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead.
Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.
These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion. Yet, I can locate none of this. No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection. There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it. I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.
Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion. There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way. There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount. No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb. Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus.
In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them.
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:30 pm
 
Nice reply. .Robert 67..

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm
 
Regarding Budda
Between the years 563 to 483 BC, there was a man in India named Siddhārtha Gautama better known as the Buddha. He was a man who taught principles for peace, harmony as well as love. He was raised in luxury by his father Shuddodana who was determined to not allow his son to see anything unpleasant. This was to keep the fact that there was ugliness and suffering in the world away from him.
One day when Siddhārtha was twenty-nine, he asked his father if he could visit a neighboring city. His father decided to allow him, but also attempted to have the entire city cleaned before his son should arrive. This tactic worked at first, but Siddhārtha strayed away from the rout that his father was counting on him taking and then he saw four different men on which the “four signs” were based: One was old, one was ill, one was dead and the fourth was a beggar. And frm this he came to the realization that even he would grow old and die and he began wondering what was the point of life if one was going to die. From then on he renounced his life of ease to begin a life of begging on the streets.
— By the age of 35, he had supposedly gained great insight of the causes of pain and suffering and how to eliminate it and later he ban to teach. Among his teachings, he taught the “four noble truths” which claim that 1) all life is suffering, 2) that desire causes suffering, 3) one can overcome suffering, and 4) that is would be overcome by following the Eight Fold Path.
 Several in the “Jesus Myth” crowd have attempted to tie the Buddha to Jesus Christ by mentioning several apparent similarities between the two. — D.M. Murdock, otherwise known as Acharya S, has been one of many of the mythers that do this. Following, her claims are placed in bold while my responses are in regular font.
Buddha was born of the virgin Maya, who was considered the “Queen of Heaven.”
It is certainly true that the birth of Siddhārtha Gautama was miraculous in itself, however the claim that his mother Maya was a virgin is unsubstantiated and isn’t found in Buddhist writings. The fact is that Buddhist tradition points out that Maya and her husband King Suddhodhana were already married for twenty years before their son was born which argues all out against Queen Maya’s virginity. Most certainly, their marraige would have been consumated long before Siddhārtha Gautama’s birth. (Text link)
If Ms. Murdock’s mention of Maya being the “Queen of Heaven” is an attempt to link her to the virgin Mary, then it should also be mentioned that the idea of such a title for Mary is purely Roman Catholic and has no Biblical basis. Protestant Christianity, which is more based on the Bible than Catholicism does not recognize Mary in any such way.
He was of royal descent.
This is true for both Jesus and Buddha, however it is also incidental with absolutely no relevance at all. Arguing that this is a relevant parallel is like saying that since Queen Elizabeth I of England and Nero, the Roman Emperor were both of royal descent that they are therefore connected. Such reasoning just doesn’t work.
He crushed a serpent’s head.
I cannot find any evidence that this was said about Buddha. Even if it was, it certainly is not said about Jesus in any of the four Gospels or (as far as I know) in the New Testament at all. — The crushing of the serpent’s head (which is considered a Messianic prophesy) actually comes from Genesis 3: 15 which was written is at least 1397 BC over 800 before the Buddha was born. This pretty much means that even if such a thing was ever said about Buddha the Hebrew Bible had the saying many centuries before Buddhism ever had existed and therefore Jesus being a Jew would not have had to imitate Buddhism for this one detail.
The fact of the matter is that “crushing a serpent’s head” is actually out of the Buddha’s character because he had resolved not to harm a single creature. As a matter of fact there is a story of him protecting a serpent. (The Story of Buddha, page 7)
Sakyamuni Buddha had 12 disciples.
This is most definitely not true. — At first the Buddha, after his renunciation, had five companions (The Story of Buddha, Pages 40 & 41). Later on, not counting the Buddha’s immediate family or royal patrons, he had a total of eleven male disciples, nine female disciples, and five lay disciples making a total of twenty-five, more than double. (Click here)
In her footnotes Ms. Murdock cites a Travel Guide page as proof of “the motif of Buddha and the 12.” The page she refers to mentions a large statue of Buddha accompanied by twelve smaller Buddhas. — The problem here is that this imagery comes from the Chinese Yuan Dynasty which is dated from the 13th and 14th centuries AD. So even if this was a reflection of Jesus’ twelve disciples, it’s from a period way too late to have affected Christianity. Buddhist tradition shows, however, that the Buddha had more than twelve followers.
Besides, her source suggests that this particular scene is the “Nirvana.” If this interpretation is correct then I must point out that Buddhist tradition says that the Buddha at the time was surrounded by 500 arachants who committed to memory his teachings. (The Story of Buddha, Page 93) If this is the case then the only reason that the Buddhist relief she refers to shows twelve men is because it is much easier than depicting 500.
He performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a “small basket of cakes,” and walked on water.
It is true that the Buddha is associated with miracles. But this hardly proves anything because it goes without saying that miracle-workers are an expectation in any religion and therefore this alone does not imply any imitation on Jesus’ part.
Even though it is true that the Buddha did care for the sick, he used a much different method than Jesus who healed with a touch and even over long distances. Buddha would treat his patients with hot water and would bathe them. There were various patients that Buddha treated that didn’t regain their health and even died, which is not the case with Jesus. (Text Link)
I can’t find any Buddhist or Encyclopedic sources that show that Buddha fed 500 people with a “small basket of cakes.” Besides, it should be mentioned that Jesus didn’t use cakes, but rather five loaves of bread and two fish. — And as for the last claim of walking on water, this one is true. But it is also true that this parallel has its differences because the Buddha is said to have accomplished this by “levitating over a stream” to convert a non-believer to Buddhism. Jesus didn’t levitate, he just walked. And he didn’t do it to convert anyone. (Text Link)
He abolished idolatry, was a “sower of the word,” and preached “the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness.”
It would be a true statement to say that Buddha “asked his followers not to create images of him when he died,” though this doesn’t seem to be an actual command. But this really is not an issue because Buddhism is a “Non-Theistic” religion. (Click here) Buddhist do bow to Buddha which, at least from a Christian perspective, is defined as Idolatry. — It should be mentioned that Jesus did not “abolish Idolatry,” nor did he need to because it was already legally prohibited by Jewish law. (Exodus 20: 4)
As for the last two claims that Buddha was a “sower of the word” and preached “the establishment of the kingdom of righteousness” — I can find absolutely no reference to them.
He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all.
Okay, and so did Gandhi, Seneca and many others. These are very common ideas, way too common to just assume that Jesus copied them from Buddha. Though these ideas are held in common between both Christianity and Buddhism, the truth is that there are differences between the two. The philosophical foundations of the two religions are actually quite different. (Text Link)
He was transfigured on a mount.
This is not true. He was transformed into the Buddha while he sat under a tree in a region in Northern India known as Bodhgaya. (Text Link) — I have been informed in an E-Mail correspondance by Eyal Aviv of George Washington University that this area is not even a mountain region.
Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected.
Again, this is completely false. Buddha did not die of crucifixion or even as a “sin-atonement.” He became ill and died at age eighty after eating a large meal of “soft pork” which, according to a diagnosis of his sickness, was too large for his digestive system. (Click here) Also, he was not raised from the dead, rather his body was cremated after death. (Source)
As for suffering in hell for three days in hell, this is not true of either Buddha or Jesus.
He ascended to Nirvana or “heaven.”
Here, Ms. Murdock is showing blatant ignorance of the concept of “Nirvana.” — Nirvana is not a place, and it certainly isn’t “heaven.” It is to live on earth in a state of enlightenment which ends the cursed cycle of reincarnation for a Buddhist. (Click here)
Buddha was considered the “Good Shepherd”, the “Carpenter”, the “Infinite and Everlasting.”
There is no evidence that Buddha was ever called the “good Shepherd or even the “Carpenter.” — It is true that one sect of Buddhism (Mahayana) contains the idea of an “everlasting Buddha.” But this is virtually a meaningless parallel between Jesus and Buddha considering the number of debunked parallel claims between the two made by Ms. Murdock.
He was called the “Savior of the World” and the “Light of the World.”
For once, there is truth to this. After Siddhārtha was born, a sage names Asita told his parents that if he renounced a life of luxury at the court he would indeed become the “savior of the world.” (Text Link) I cannot find a mention of Buddha being “the light of the world.” But even if it exists, it would not prove anyone did any copying.
After making these debunked claims, Ms. Murdock cites Dr. Christian Lindtner to further prove her point that Jesus was copied from Buddhism. — Even though Dr. Lindtner is recognized in the field, he is also a noted “Jesus-Myther.” Many of the claims Ms. Murdock quotes him as saying have already been debunked such as the alleged “crucifixion” of Buddha and the “twelve disciples,” so I’m not going into too much detail. The fact that he is willing to make such easily refuted claims shows blatant dishonesty on his part.
Interestingly, he lists the “last supper” as a parallel between Jesus and Buddha. Though it is true that they had a “last supper,” the details of the two are completely different. Buddha simply ate his meal, got sick and died. — In Jesus’ case, the event was used to declare that he would be betrayed, killed and resurrected. This is way too different to assume that one account influenced the other.
He then repeats the claim that Buddha was resurrected but he leaves out the fact that if this were true then that would mean he never attained “Nirvana,” the point of which was to prevent resurrection or reincarnation. But no dedicated Buddhist would accept this because this would mean that Buddha was not actually a Buddha. — Considering that he is recognized in this field and that his claims are so easily disproved, I unfortunately have to question his honesty.
As I was researching for this blog post, I e-mailed Ms. Murdock’s claims of Jesus-Buddha parallels to several professors of Buddhism and I received a response from Eyal Aviv, Assistant Professor of the Department of Religion at George Washington University who said,
Generally, the claims made in the website you read are historically so problematic that I can simply say that they are not true [ . . . ] I would recommend you to be cautious with Web sources and rely on authoritative scholars or religious writers from within the respective traditions you are interested in.
The truth is that even though there is what could be construed as evidence of Buddhist influence on Christianity, it is basically inconclusive. And just because there are certain similarities, this does not indicate beyond doubt that the similarities between them are a result of Buddhist influence on Christianity. (Text Link)
— So in conclusion, the claims that are made by Ms. Murdock (a.k.a., Acharya S) about parallels between Jesus and Buddha are mostly untrue. The claims that are true are so few in number and therefore can be assumed to be coincidence. Not to mention, in her list of parallels, she jumps to certain conclusions that lead her to misunderstand basic teachings of Buddhism. Considering the fact that Ms. Murdock claims to be an expert in comparative religion, this is pretty odd.

 
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 6, 2015 at 1:45 pm
 
Say Robert, I appreciate your thoughtful answers. Maybe I could get your take on this..at times there seems to be a huge difference between Jesus teachings and that of Moses and even Neihmiah.
 I am reminded of where Jesus said “on account of your hard heartedness , Moses made a concession,” do you think that is a issue of o.t. individuals going beyond what is written?

 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 6, 2015 at 2:30 pm
 
@Robert- Thanks for your input. However, I did not say Jesus was a carbon copy of Horus, only that the similarities can not be overlooked and searching for similarities will lead you to many dead ends. You need to search for genuine Egyptology on Horus alone.
Further, I never implied the exact details were identical! The basics ARE the same and too similar to ignore.
See: https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf
(Yes, Massey is quoted in this publication)
My point by choosing Horus and Buddha (and others) that PREDATED JESUS were to show that, in my humble opinion, Jesus was nothing more than an amalgam of various deities and god’s in ancient literature. The rabbit hole goes very deep on this one but to quote from another poster, “there’s no evidence that Jesus ever existed, no sculptures or paintings of Jesus. There are no artifacts or writings by Jesus or his contemporaries. We have Julius Caesar’s own writings, who lived 100 yrs. before the alleged life of Jesus. We also have actual letters that were written to Caesar and letters that Caesar wrote.
Contemporary historians wrote about the life of Caesar. However, mankind’s Savior Jesus never wrote a word. Jesus never wrote anyone a letter and we do not have any original documents written by his disciples or followers. There are no references to a historical Jesus by any known contemporary historian. No literate person in the time period, which Jesus supposedly lived in, mentioned him in any known writing.
All of the documents about the alleged Jesus came WELL AFTER HIS DEATH. Biblical Scholars know this and do not claim it is historical evidence. They instead claim that what’s important is the story. A story that is a lie (pawned of as the truth) can’t be very important.
The Jews at Qumran were waiting on a future Jewish king to appear and deliver them. The Mashiah, according to Jewish belief, was not a God that would deliver his people by clearing their way to heaven. The messiah was to be an empowered King who would destroy the enemies of the Jews and regain their Holy Land. The enemies were the Romans or (future Christians). Essentially everything Christians have been told about Christianity is false. Their beliefs are based on a misinterpretation of the word Mashiah ‘Messiah’ a (Mashiah that never came) and layers of various pagan beliefs of the Roman culture…
The Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Supper can be traced to the Qumrans, also going back at least one century before the alleged Jesus’ virgin birth. The Sermon on the Mount is recorded in the Gospel of Matthew and Luke about fifty years after Jesus allegedly gave the sermon. The Gospels of Mark and John say nothing about The Sermon on the Mount and neither do Paul, Peter or John because as the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal, the Sermon on the Mount was recorded in the Book of Enoch, at least 100 years before the supposed virgin birth of Jesus.
Confucius 6th century BC Chinese sage and founder of Confucianism from the Analects “love thy neighbor as thyself. Do nothing to thy neighbor, which thou wouldst not have him do to thee hereafter”. The verses and saying attributed to Jesus existed long before he was invented.
The Gospels are the sole source of information about a historical Jesus. Everything that we know about Jesus and Christianity depends on that source. Unknown authors wrote the Gospels the names are only titles. Nobody knows when they were written or who wrote them.*** (see: FOOTNOTE)
Eusebius openly advocated the use of fraud and deception in furthering the interests of the Church. The first mention of Jesus by Josephus came from Eusebius (none of the earlier church fathers mention Josephus’ Jesus). Scholars have determined that Eusebius not Josephus was responsible for those writings. Eusebius wrote about “how it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.”
Any claim that there had to have been a historical Jesus fails because a study of the true circumstances of Christianity’s beginnings (although this is difficult considering how much of the past is gone (books and whole libraries were burned and destroyed) and this is precisely the pattern expected if the Jesus religion was an offshoot from other existing religious myths.
Celsus pointed out the same flaws in the cult and (they burnt all his books) so with the silence of the critics, the re-writing of its past, any claim that there had to have been a historical Jesus fails.”
***FOOTNOTE: The WT is really trying to paint a picture of the Gospel writers as men they know everything about when indeed they have very little to go on. Notice in the newest “bible handbook” they have chosen Mathew as their first victim. They have filled in the blanks of his life. Sad. Very sad.
If Jesus really existed as the “Greatest Man Who Ever Lived,” do you think we would need to even have this discussion 2000 years after his DEATH AND DISAPPEARANCE?
I don’t think so.

 
 
 Tara says:

 October 6, 2015 at 2:47 pm
 
Phew

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 6, 2015 at 4:32 pm
 
Robert67 Why don’t you just write a book on it?

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 6, 2015 at 8:40 pm
 
The cruelest character in the Bible is also presented as the most loving character in the Bible– one of many insurmountable problems.
Robert67: 3565 words
 Actigall Ur: 1121 words
 JB Reezner: 22 words
Robert67 wins!

 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 7, 2015 at 12:37 am
 
maybe the stories of horus derived from an ancient skewed text of prophecy. All muddled with half truths and fabrications. It may have got lost in the mists of time, a bit likr the wtower rl

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:42 am
 
Josephus the Jewish historian, the rabbinical scribes of the time, Tacitus the Roman official and thousands of personal letters found circling around the time all make reference to not only Jesus, but the Christ and his life. They say that even if every last copy of the Greek scriptures dissapeared off the face of the Earth, you would still be able to reconstruct them just using the personal letters. You forget how illegal it was to follow Christ first amongst Jews and later in the Roman Empire. These letters were their secret way of communicating despite not being able to meet openly. The poor that followed Jesus obviously would be illiterate and the son if God would not spend his precious 3 year ministry rewriting the Hebrew Scriptures or giving away the divine plan. You missed the whole “no sign but that of Jonah” explanation he gave. Those who follow him will have to do it by faith. There is way too much archaeological evidence to backup scripture and deny these people existed. The survival story of the Bible alone is a miracle. The planets three greatest religions all claim Abraham as their salvations starting point. It’s early here and I can go on and on, but the evidence in support of what scripture says happened is there. The rest for us living after the savior, were not going to get the firework miracles. We aren’t going to get God curing us or saving us. We get Biblical truth about ourselves and the human condition with a running theme that if we’re ok human beings, maybe there’s a little something for us and our children after our short lives burn out.

 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 6:54 am
 
@Robert67 . You have done your Research Well , Robert! Enjoyed your in depth analysis . It’s a Pity the 7 Midgets of Brooklyn aren’t as thorough as you !!
 I think many Ex-JWs Feel SO LET DOWN by the EVER CHANGING INTERPRETATIONS of The Bible by the 7 PYGMIES that when they do Leave the Organistion they Become SO DISILLUSIONED with RELIGION that Many Feel IT IS a SNARE & A RACKET!!! Which is Understandable after SACRIFICING SO MUCH to the 7 MENTAL GYMNASTS who Have FLEECED them for their TIME, ENERGY & MONEY !!

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:56 am
 
I love ya, PB! But the people here who have removed the Bible from its sacred pedestal in their lives have not all simply had a knee-jerk reaction to being burned by the Org.
For many of us, years of thoughtful, honest, open-minded research and a careful reevaluation of cherished, long-held beliefs has resulted in a more evidence-based belief system, which precludes continued acceptance of the validity of the Bible.
I said that in a SUPER NICE way, lol. I’m a lover, not a fighter…

 
 
 Reader says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:44 am
 
The similarities accross the pagan faiths is almost universal.
 This is why the Romans saw other faiths as other forms of their own, it took several hundred years of Emperor supervised interferance to create the RC church. The lack of true comparisons shows over years of church auguement.

 
 
 
 Awake! says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:36 pm
 
Sounds to me like the story of Jesus is nothing but a load of Horus-sh*t.
 Sorry…sorry…sorry…;)
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 October 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm
 
Actigall Ur,
I have to agree with you on this topic. I tried to refute these things myself & it didn’t take long for the connections to fall into place.
It started with my niece asking me the question as to whether Zeitgeist had any truth to it. So I set out to prove it wrong. I did find holes in the documentary but my personal research found too many similarities with many of the deities.
Reply
 
 
 JWChange says:

 October 6, 2015 at 5:00 pm
 
A most excellent professionally made video clip. JWSurvey/Cedars and all the participants in this clip should be commended for a very LOUD impact statement. I hope it helps current JWs put their toe in the water and research TTATT.
Reply
 
 
 Faded says:

 October 6, 2015 at 5:17 pm
 
This site means the world to me. Lloyd, I cannot begin to express my gratitude. It is so important that these horrible, fear inspiring lies are exposed! I’m struggling with my anger for having held to the beliefs for sooooo long. Thank you to you and all of the others who work along with you, for all that you do for the ex JW community. As you English say, ‘Cheers!’
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 6, 2015 at 11:28 pm
 
@Faded .. REALLY REALLY NICE APPRECIATIVE WORDS & SENTIMENTS!! .. I am from the UK &’ CHEERS to You!! …, AMERICAN ‘CHEERS’ was a Great Comedy Series!! So thank you my American friend for that !
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 7, 2015 at 12:50 am
 
Hi all this is my MEGALOMANAIC moment. When you all anoint ME ME as the girl head honcho ive got a few changes.Seeing as the org is smelly rich i will dispose of it accordingly haha. All 8m can have 1m£ each,then they can all go pioneering.All df’d(they have records) can have 1m£each but no obligation to go pioneering.All peodophiles (those on their list) to donate their 1m£ to any charity of choice except WBTS.NO money to the lawyers they have a stash squirrelled away somewhere. And any one who has a reasonable claim for damages 1975 etc loss of education blah , petrol money, can all claim. I would break this cult with generosity.So when they meet their maker they may have a fighting chance.And we can all get on with our lives . NO squabbling ,no hard feelings,and no regrets. What do you think folks is that reasonable for a closet megalomaniac. I like that word today. ruthlee/ruthless
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 3:05 am
 
@Ruth Lee . You have made many Good Suggestions,Ruth . But The BEST THING I LIKE about your Comment is you SPELT.., MEGLOMANIAC with CAPITAL LETTERS!!! As you all know by NOW!’!!! … I am a BIG USER of CAPITALS ?!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:07 am
 
@Ruth lee … SORRY to break it to you , But you SPELT … MEGLOMANIAC wrong … Sorry for being PEDANTIC but the ‘i’ goes before the ‘a’ …. !!!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 7, 2015 at 6:58 am
 
Ah, but Ruthless only spelled it wrong once. YOU spelled it wrong TWICE, HAHAA! Get your act together, PB!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 7:17 am
 
@JB Reezner .I Think you need to go to SPECSAVERS!!!

 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 7:26 am
 
@JB … Anyway LETTY has Told me I am GOING to HEAVEN & .. TONY said I can Spell MeGALoMIA ANYWAY I WANT !!!

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:33 am
 
Haha, okay I will let you off the hook then, PB. I mean, if ANYBODY has the copyright on the word MEGALOMANIAC, it’s Tony Tightass.
In fact, not only can the 7 WITCHES OF WARWICK SPELL it any way they want, they can even CHANGE the everlovin’ DEFINITION of it if they want! They have that power…

 
 
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:37 am
 
Hi PB what you have to remember is that i’m clever but not educated because I followed the advice to not improve my life and wasted my opportunity to go to Oxford. Idimmed dumbed my life down to amoeba level daft eh and i don’t know where spell checker is on the computer. As for grammar I know iv’e annoyed folks with my quaint way of writing but glad you liked my nonsense for the day its as nonsensical as any thing else i heard at the c ass this weekend gone. NOTE to SELF MUST use CAPITALS more haha ruthlee
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 5:23 am
 
@Ruth lee . You have a point ,Ruth …. Let’s BLAME the GB for the POOR EDUCATION they Get because of the STUPID ADVICE to PIONEER or GO to BETHEL once we Reach 16 or so !!! Ruth I have PHONED … STEVEY !!… It’s Alright ME & LETTY are on First Name Terms so I am not being too familiar & STEVE Told me because your Spelling & Grammar has SUFFERED because of the GB STUPID Educational Policies … STEVEY is going to AWARD You £10 MILLION from the EXTRA DONATIONS the GB have Received from CHILDRENs ICE CREAM MONEY!! … I Bet your SOooo GLAD , ME & STEVEY are MATES!!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 6:22 am
 
@Ruth lee . The CHEQUE will be in the POST… STEVEY has just sent it UPSTAIRS ? For FREDDY FRANZ to Sign!!!
 ALL You Lovely YANKS on this site .. PLEASE NOTE the CORRECT SPELLING for ‘CHEQUE’!!!!
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 7, 2015 at 7:19 am
 
hooray hooray oh happy HAPPY day!!! I’m in raptures.tee hee rl
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 7:47 am
 
Q 2222222.4 Do u proms nt to yus spl cheque wen tippin on the ipad that u must now buy so dat you can reed all the socciety litriture. CPTALS CN B USD IN APRPRAITE PLCES four inapropriate fings two.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 8:10 am
 
@ Tara .., I MUST SAY …, your SPELLING & GRAMMAR is IMPROVING !!! … Just out of Curiosity ??? Is your Temporary??! Theocractic School Overseer .. David SPLANE by any chance ??? Tara , you seem to be OVERLAPPING your Vowels with your Consonants ;Also your Verbs with your Nouns . !!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 8:13 am
 
@Tara . Please STILL ‘W’ on it ???. SPLANEY tells me That means Work on it ?? …

 
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 8:35 am
 
‘GAWN! I is just a simple girl I am. I know nothin ’bout all these big worlds. Brought up by ‘Enry Iggins I was.

 
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
@Tara … Enry iggins??? ..What did you say ‘My Fair Lady??’
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm
 
The rain, in Spain, stays mainly on the plain…. because if it hit Warwick, T3 would be twiddling his nob again!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 7, 2015 at 5:42 am
 
I have some exciting, but heart breaking, local news that many of you will be interested to hear about. I’ll try to keep it brief. Also, I have to change a few details to keep this confidential.
A young brother from a nearby hall that I am friends with texted me last night that he may be removed as an ——— and that he wanted me to know before the reasons why. Although we have had conversations in the past discussing our doubts, I never told him about my apostasy. In fact, in the last conversation we had I told him to stick around for as long as possible because “where else shall we go.” Shocking words, coming from me – I know. The reason I left it at that was because I must be very cautious as to what I say and honestly I can not trust anyone, even so called “friends.”
Now to the point: he told me his OWN F’ing FATHER (a self-righteous, arrogant son of B!) accused him of “corrupt apostate thinking” when he approached him about one of the things we talked about. I know after our conversation, he was withdrawn and just a different person. He started to go to my meeting instead of his for a while since he said he had changed his work schedule. I’m not sure how to approach this as that turned out to be a lie but I won’t hold it against him.
I know when I discovered the truth about this cult, I felt like my whole world just collapsed. Suddenly, everything I put so much time and effort into turned out to be a lie! Anyways you all know the feeling, so I have deep sympathy for him, especially since he does not know yet that I am an apostate. After all, what is HIS lie compared to the lie the WT continues to feed?!
Anyways, for the sake of saying too much, the book “Crisis of Conscience” may have saved him. Asking questions and bringing irrefutable evidence against this cult’s teachings is NOT ALLOWED. I suggest everyone reads that book. You can even find it in PDF on the net but believe me, this is a book you will want to cherish.
I still have not told him who I really am but I encouraged him that no matter what happens (including DF’ing if that happens) I will always be his friend and I WILL NOT SHUN HIM. I made that clear. I told him if he ever becomes depressed to please seek help immediately. I don’t think he is the suicidal type but knowing his father, he will kick him out of the house and on the street and HE WILL shun him. His mother might be a little more reasonable but the influence of that man is overwhelming. We shall see.
We’re supposed to hang out this weekend so I will be able to see what is really going on as you can’t derive “the deep thoughts of man” (LOL) from texts. I’m not doubting his situation, and I don’t want to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist but I’m still going to be cautious about what I say. For now at least. Meanwhile, if all goes well, it seems my “planting of seeds of truth” (LOL) has helped another lost soul.
I would not have been able to do this if I were like one of these brave souls in the video.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 7:54 am
 
It’s at times like this that I want to go get all these ones and, dare I say it… gather them together like a hen with her chicks…. the rug gets pulled, the walls come tumbling down and there seems no place or person to turn to. I hope he is ok. Its going to be hard for you too because no doubt you will feel some responsibility to this man. Is there any way you can scout out an emergency place for him to stay, just on the off chance he is kicked out?
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:04 am
 
@Tara- I do feel a certain responsibility towards him but I consider myself a surgeon, carefully performing a life saving operation and the patient was unwilling at first to take the hard medicine which will later save his life. He will thank me later for it. But to be fair, I believe he would have discovered the truth about this cult sooner or later. I might have saved him the best part of his life!
He didn’t say that he was kicked out of his house just yet or in need of anything but I told him that I will be there for him if he needs ANYTHING at all.
Like I said, I couldn’t sense any extreme sense of sadness through text messages alone but I can only imagine he must be hurt to have his own FATHER bring these accusations against him! At this point I don’t know all of the details since he was kind of vague (he was writing his girlfriend at the same time so…) I’ll see soon. I could TOTALLY see his father doing that to him though. His father is one of those do-no-wrong arrogant self-righteous holy rollers. He’d betray his own family for the sake of this cult. I’m sure of that. Ironically, and tragically at the same time, his father has stumbled so many people over the years it is not even funny. But of course, NOTHING ever happens to him because he is considered one of the holy pillars of faith in their congregation and holds a high position and various rolls (of domination, LOL). It’s a long story which I cannot mention in detail here (for obvious reasons) but be rest assured that this man is a man that Jesus would have cursed for being so evil. He is a modern day Pharisee and hypocrite. Thankfully his mother is one of the nicest people you could meet and is balanced. She probably kept things cool.
Last message he wrote was about hanging out this weekend. I said yes.
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 7, 2015 at 8:01 am
 
Glad to hear he is awake and saddened that his outing will be so abrupt and not on his terms. Everyone needs to own a copy of crisis of consience. Downloading it as a pdf is great, but just looking at it in my book case next to all my WT literature helps me keep the right perspective when tempted to just cruise back into the Matrix. Send him our way if it comes to it and help him awaken gradually to keep dispair from kicking in. Life goes on and its a whole lot better without the Dogmatic chains around your neck. Remind him he’s reached his jubilee and should find joy in the adventure of life that awaits him. Remind him that the intense shock of being seperated from family eventually fades to a tolerable level. Have him watch Lloyd’s youtube channel to help with the nasty withdrawal symptoms. Good luck.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:21 am
 
Yes, I know for myself, finding out that my whole support system was a lie was devastating. But I faced the facts and began a new life. He too will do the same.
Crisis of Conscience was a book I heard rumors about when I was a Borg but never read because it was that “evil apostate material.” By the time I read that book I had already concluded this was an evil cult. That book merely solidified that vile fact. I too have a hard copy of it and recommend EVERY WITNESS READS IT ONCE. What do you have to lose? Your faith in a dangerous, lying cult?
It will be interesting to see how his whole family reacts! Again, I don’t have all the details just yet, but if this leads to a DF’ing then yes, his father WILL kick him out and shun him. His mother will still have contact with him, as she is more balanced but this will lead to problems. I’m not saying they will get divorced over this but who knows?
I’m hoping that he just gets privately reproved if anything at all. Then I will tell him to say to his father, “oh YES father, you WERE RIGHT” and just BS him do death. The key is to remain inside so you don’t lose your connections (and family). I’m going to make him my protege and train him to become a double agent. It’s quite exciting. I’m going to analyze his mental disposition this weekend. If I feel he is agent material, then I will tell him, “My name is Bond. James Bond.” :)
Reply
 
 
 
 JWChange says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:24 am
 
Actigull UR, I agree with Tara and Robert. However ultimately it will be your friend’s decision whether to go cold turkey (DFd/DA) or to suck up for a few weeks and fade from the JW hallucinogenic ‘drug’. As far as the ‘where else do we go’ question, the answer is dependent on whether the question should be broken into 2 parts: (1) Can I cope with losing almost all my JW friends and family and (2) What will my belief system be post JW world?
Only your friend can answer Q1, however Q2 is easier for him to answer by watching / reading happy ex JWs on various websites (such as Cedar’s above clip) that range from Atheists to Born again/evangelical.
i personally believe in a Creator that caused or seeded life on Earth. My belief is a bit complicated and not for this thread. It gives me strength, however i do not believe there is one path/religion that is true. To use JW terminology, I am of the opinion ALL religion is Babylon the Great including the WTBTS. Although I am not a UU, this faith is probably the nearest to one an ex-JW can look into if they need ‘religion’. Personally I don’t.
i wish you and your friend all the best. Tell him to hang on in there.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:27 am
 
@JWChange- I quoted that clever phrase (“to whom shall we go”) the WT loves to use to claim that IT ALONE as the only way to God only to allay any possibility that I could be apostate after our discussion. As I said, I need to be very cautious.
I couldn’t care less if tomorrow he still believed in Jehovah or Jesus or any other god. What matters is that he sees that the current religion he associates with is a CULT.
Good for you. If you need a supernatural crutch to ease your internal conflicts or give you moral guidance, then more power to you. As for me, I am a man of logic and reasoning. I now believe, as I have held deeply for many years, that EVERYTHING that happens in the universe has a scientific explanation. There is no supernatural power directing things. IF there was, then I’d say this supernatural power is either dead or an evil piece of filth who I would never worship.
I live by this motto: IF there exists a god or gods and they are good, they will not care which path I chose so long as I were good to my fellow man and lived a noble life. If there are gods and they are evil, I would rather die than worship them. If there are no gods, I still want to live a noble life so that those who know me will keep me alive in their memory as a good man.
That is it.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 8:44 am
 
Forgive me for going off topic but there was no where else to really mention this. Last night I was having a think – I do this occasionally. all this FDS stuff is really only mentioned once in the Bible isn’t it? Well, maybe Jesus was just telling us that ‘we’ are the FDS in our own households. My Mom and Dad – non witnesses btw, brought us up to have good morals etc etc. If Jesus came to our house back then I am sure he would have said ‘good job!’ Perhaps that is what he was getting at. We need to keep our own house clean to the best of our ability. If and when Jesus returns he can look at the family unit and say ‘hey, you guys really tried. well done.’ Instead of the GB trying to lord it over every family and screwing it up.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:31 am
 
@Tara Your Guess at F& D Slave can’t be any worse than the 5 DIFFERENT CHANGES to the Interpretation the PYGMY MIDGETS in Brooklyn have come up with since 1874 First it wasn’t RUSSELL ; then in 1910 it was RUSSELL ; Then in the Late 1920s Rutherford decides it wasn’t Russell but ALL the 144,000 then BINGO in 2013 it is only the 7 MENTAL MIDGETS in BROOKLYN !!
 So Tara you are PROBABLY MORE RIGHT than the GB will ever be!!!
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:44 am
 
@Tara. That’s it right there. The word religion isn’t even in the Bible. Jesus tought “the way” to live life. He emphasized prayer, aquire knowledge of he and his father, but above all Love, Love, Love. Watchtower teaches hate, superiority complexes, judgement, policing, spying and saturated with lies. Jesus told the false teachers of the day that they originated from their father, the father of lies. The Watchtower Bible and Tract society has been exposed for lies after lies, deceit, manipulation, violations of human rights, mental and emotional torture all in Jesus name. “Get out from among them, unless you want to share in….
Reply
 
 
 Jwpod says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:01 am
 
Interesting side note to this ….the term “little flock ” is only used 1x. Which raised question “who are you talking about ” which in answer j.c.talks about f.s., semi faithful s. And wicked s. But, he was talking about the apostles and disciples, back then…we just quietly changed that understanding with the “new” greatest man book released.last summer.
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:24 am
 
This is the.old slight of hand trick, but applied to the scriptures. .we use Matt 24:45, all eyes on that and.then with other hand cover over luke 12 as if its just a variation of “same” account..IT’S NOT.
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:50 am
 
Here’s another interesting fact..long long time ago when I was just wide eyed lad, I still could not figure out why John 10:16 at least didn’t have an application to the gentile christians…even though Paul makes same comments almost word for word in eph.2,
 Anyway …I Google searched that verse, low and behold we didn’t even get the top 3 listing for.it…nope, looks like old judge Rutherford borrowed from the Mormons.
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:54 am
 
@JwPow .. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT !! LUKE 12 V42-48 shows 4 Possible Outcomes to the Faithful Slave or Steward !! But the 7 GB Twisters of Scripture only Focus on Matthew 24 v45-47 . WHEN ANYONE COMPARES the TWO ILLUSTRATIONS then it becomes APPARENT that ALL 8 MILLION JWs have been CONNED …. BIG TIME!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 David says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:21 am
 
You are right Tara. Jesus is telling believers to keep on the watch. He used the example of the slave because having a slave was common in the Roman world. But the GB of the JWs have misinterpreted the Bible and applied the verse to them.
 But Christians are free. They are free to test every teaching and refuse any wrong teaching. The GB has robbed people of this freedom. You are not allowed to test but bend to 7 men. Either you say yes to everything or your family relations are seriously at risk.
 This is clearly opposite to Jesus view.
 Honestly it is impossible that they do it innocently, this is well planned. It is an excuse to exercise total control.
 Their behaviour is another example how humans can be intelligent but also extremely stupid causing extreme pain to innocent people.
 I am totally shocked at how people that study the Bible can be so blind.
 After all Jesus was rejected by the “visible organisation” of his time, by people who wrote the scripture. So you even if you study the Bible 24 hours a day you ca still be blind.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:50 pm
 
@ David .. I REALLY Like your POST ,Especially the comment about the Governing Body CANNOT be INNOCENT about what they are doing … IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL!!& Yes John 10v.16 is DEFINITELY about GENTILES becoming ONE FLOCK with JEWISH CHRISTIANS !! The GB Know this but Have TIED themselves into a Corner since RUTHERFORD came up with the IDEA in 1935 to tie it in with the GREAT CROWD being in An EARTHLY PARADISE instead of what RUSSELL taught about the Great Crowd being in heaven & IRONICALLY Rutherford taught the same CONCEPT of the GREAT CROWD being in HEAVEN until 1935 !! A Lot of this was probably CLAYTON WOODWORTHs Input as he was Editor of Awake formerly Golden Age & Consolation until 1947 & Woodworth was Co -Editor of The FINISHED MYSTERY’ the most UTTER INSANE WRITINGS Known to Mankind ??
Reply
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:50 am
 
@Tara- If I could give you a giant hug through this computer screen I would! You are probably the closest to the truth of the bible’s message than the GB will EVER be.
Who says that THEY ALONE have the power to interpret what verse in the bible should be taken as literal and what verse is figurative? The GB says so! Why? Because without THEIR HOLY SPIRIT GUIDED INTERPRETATIONS we would never know that WE NEED THEM! LOL Without THEM, we would have never known that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE! ROTFLMAO! :) :) :)
 _______________________________
BUT TARA REMEMBER THIS- ***********EVERY BIBLE SCHOLAR, RESEARCHER, HISTORIAN, MUSEUM CURATOR, ANTHROPOLOGIST, ANTIQUITIES DIRECTOR, JEWISH RABBI, ARCHAEOLOGIST and ENCYCLOPAEDIST THE WORLD OVER IS WRONG ABOUT THE DATE OF JERUSALEM’S DESTRUCTION– EXCEPT FOR THE 7 TALKING HEADS IN BROOKLYN!************
Pretty AMAZING how BLESSED JEHOVAH’S PEOPLE ARE TO HAVE SUCH MEN ON EARTH! BUT ARE THEY REALLY MEN? NO! They are MORE than MEN! They are going to be IMMORTAL! THEY ARE ALMOST GOD LIKE! Just LOOK at their statuesque BODIES, their FLOWING hair and broad powerful NECKS. SO GODLIKE! There is ALMOST a LIGHT GLOWING around their heads like they ARE ANGELS! WHY YES TARA! These MEN are ANGELS!
_______________________________________
PHEW! Got carried away in the thought of their holiness!
Circular reasoning is a specialty of the GB. Then again, circular reasoning is a specialty of every charlatan and fraud the earth over so it goes to show you…
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:29 pm
 
Wow I feel like I got a gold star at school – yay me lol. I am just sick of them interpreting every scripture with the ‘Why, that must be us! gee, aren’t we the important ones’.
Jesus was humble, so shouldn’t we be? I’m just going to look after my own household and teach them morals and to be truthful and loving. I’ll start by feeding the cats. BTW I except hugs :)
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 12:05 am
 
@ Actigall Ur . I AM GLAD you got Carried Away.. You Made so many GOOD Points about the GB Manipulating the 607 B.C. Figure to suit THEIR AGENDA ! The Evidence is Highly Stacked against the GB , BUT the GB KNOW if they Admit 607 B.C is WRONG then 1919 date is WRONG !! Which means NO 1919 … Jesus couldn’t have chosen them as F&D Slave because they weren’t providing Food at Proper time !!
 IF 1914 & 1919 is WRONG then the START of LAST DAYS is WRONG & Also the Time when JESUS Invisible Presence in Kingdom Power !!
 But as Tome Goes on ,the NEXT 10,20,30 years the LIES & DECEIT & MANIPULATION will be SEEN by the Majority & the GB will be like SCIENTOLOGY with about 50,000 HARDCORE MENTALLY DAMAGED People Left in it ! I think all of us know one or two in each congregation who have this personality!
 By the way … I LIKE YOUR USE of CAPITALS!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 rob says:

 October 7, 2015 at 10:06 am
 
In my opinion the witness religion are the pharisees but unfortunately because they feel that they are saved and above and beyond everyone else, they just don’t see it.
Elitism, cliquiness, rule oriented, nepotism, and cover ups, are all words that could be used to describe what goes on in this religion. Everything that Jesus was against.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 12:09 am
 
@Rob .. ALL VALID POINTS you have made!!
 The GB Are the MODERN DAY PHARISEES!
 Sums it up Really!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm
 
Tara,
 Your delightfully uncomplicated explanation of the FDS parable,
 in my humble opinion, contains the essence of Jesus allegory.
My dictionary describes a “Parable”. As a fictitious tale, to
 illustrate a moral or a spiritual principle.” No indication
 whatsoever of prophecy, which would prefigure actual events.
Your simple description was the way we were taught it, as
 children in Sunday School. As a straightforward lesson to
 remain “Faithful” to Jesus and his teachings through-out life.
But Jesus instructions, as well as the complete Bible have
 been hijacked by a group of egocentric men. Who have
 complicated and corrupted them, and brazenly given
 themselves the authority to change them at their whim.
Best wishes, Ted.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:36 pm
 
:) I remember the elders once saying that man tries to look at the Bible and over complicates it. That gods word is right there before us. The GB are no different. They have hidden the simplicity of it behind their doctrines. Which they are meant to be guardians of lol.
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:31 pm
 
@Ted … That’s Exactly the point .. The GB have CREATED a PROPHECY about the F&D Slave where there is none … It is just an ILLUSTRATION !
 Simple Really just like Jesus intended .
Reply
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 October 7, 2015 at 3:25 pm
 
I was having a cry last night to my husband because one of my closest friends who is much younger than me who would be my daughters age, texted me the other day. She’s the daughter of an Elder & became very close to us, she basically adopted us as aunt/uncle/big sis/big bro. We’ve watched her grow up & turn into a beautiful young lady/wife. She wrote that she is REALLY missing me to have someone to talk to & thinks about me all of the time. I know that she’s being genuine because we had many private talks about things (when we were still in), she found it hard to make genuine friends inside this awful cult.
She spent many times at our place & we had lots of laughs together. I don’t know if we have been marked but I know that she has been told to stay away from us. She would often get down about stuff & needed someone that she could just be herself around. I know that she hasn’t found anyone like us since we left. I told her that I missed her too (but I was careful about how I worded things back). I told her that I have seen her around & always thought how much I love her & miss her in my life. She truly did fill a void when our daughter died.
It just made me angry that I can’t have a friendship with her because of this damned cult. I live in hope that she may see why we left but being a born in, I don’t want to be the one to show her the way out, I suppose I don’t want to be responsible for the devastation that comes with waking up. I at least have a different frame of reference to her about life outside having been raised a Catholic. I still find it hard adapting to life outside yet I have a fantastic support system of people that I’ve opened up to that are really understanding. I don’t know how born-ins find their way in the world when that is all that they have ever known.
Anyway, it got me thinking about the biggest mistake that those 7 family wrecking offspring of vipers have done & that is; YOU NEVER COME BETWEEN A MAN OR WOMAN & THEIR FAMILY!!! PERIOD!!! It’s like backing a tiger into a corner, their going to strike back. Now that there’s a growing number of those that have been alienated from their families, they have created a refugee camp. But that camp has grown mighty in numbers.
I feel better now that I got that off my chest. At least this website is here for venting & coming together for therapy.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:26 pm
 
@Grace.. You Make SO MANY BEAUTIFUL POINTS in Your Remarks .., I Would like to FRAME your POST & PUT it on EVERY KINGDOM HALL NOTICE BOARD in the WORLD . My Heart goes out to you & that young sister ! & you MAKE a REALLY GOOD POINT…. The 7 Contortionists of Brooklyn have made a BIG BIG ERROR in SEPARATING FAMILIES by SHUNNING .., as YOU EXCELLENTLY SAY… A ‘ REFUGEE CAMP of VERY ANGRY TIGERS???
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 8, 2015 at 8:37 am
 
What God has yoked together let NO man put apart. that means the offspring of that pairing too. ruthlee
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 8, 2015 at 12:58 pm
 
I’m breaking into song now,
“I used to bite my tongue and hold my breath
 Scared to rock the boat and make a mess
 So I sat quietly, agreed politely
 I guess that I forgot I had a choice
 I let you push me past the breaking point
 I stood for nothing, so I fell for everything…
I got the eye of the tiger, a fighter
 Dancing through the fire
‘Cause I am a champion,
 and you’re gonna hear me roar
 Louder, louder than a lion
‘Cause I am a champion, and you’re gonna hear me roar! oh oh oh oh oh oh oh.”
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 8, 2015 at 3:01 pm
 
Beautiful thoughts in your initial comment above, Grace! And now you’ve brought Katy Perry into the mix, which is something we can ALL agree on as being GREAT, lol. (For those that don’t love her, just go crawl back into the cold, dark spider hole you crept out of!)
You mentioned having a good cry in your comment. When you’re ready for another one (a nice one) have a look at this: https://youtu.be/QX-xToQI34I –If you’re not crying by time marker 6:35, you will be within a few seconds after it.
Relevance? After escaping the clutches of our little cult, we find that charities and seeking cures for things ailing the children of this world are actually WORTHWHILE endeavors, rather than mere acts of futility. And being able to actually CARE about the world around us? Well that’s something to dance about, like the beautiful apostates in the video :)
Okay, maybe a clumsy point, but enjoy the video, lol.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:07 pm
 
Thanks JB,
The link you gave me won’t let me watch it here in Australia. Dam shame when that happens because I always feel like I miss something when others post things that I can’t watch.
You’re all considered my friends here. I tell hubby that I have to check in with what you’re all saying. I read them out to him at brekky while we’re having a cuppa together having a chin wag & a giggle about the 7 crooked men.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 8, 2015 at 5:31 pm
 
Drat! Yes, it’s a very sweet little video with an autistic girl singing with Katy Perry, with a little about the girl in the beginning. Maybe if you look up “Katy Perry, Jodi DiPiazza Sing at Night of Too Many Stars”, you will be able to find a version you can watch.
And say “Hello” to hubby from JB! I can hear him now, “Who thaa HELL is that??” :)

 
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 9, 2015 at 2:20 am
 
You are so right Grace. When I and my husband and kids became Witnesses we had to cut ourselves off from our families that we had known all our lives. The Watchtower demanded that we stay separate from them as they had to be bad association. What a load of hogwash. My dear mother was as gentle as a lamb and I knew it deep down.
How dare they have demanded we keep separate from our family. Goodness knows the hurt they suffered?The years of keeping away from them must have been terrible. It was terrible for us I know that. The wasted time not hanging out with them I hate to think about. When I finally came to my senses my mother had dementia. I could not get back what I lost.
Those of us who came out of the ‘world’ suffered the whole time we were involved with the cult because we were missing our real flesh and blood families. That was not fun.
So sorry Grace, to hear about your daughter. That must have been such a lot to bear.
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 7, 2015 at 3:43 pm
 
F&DS literal hmm??,
 Are there 5 virgins with large containers of flammable fuel and 10 naked flames sleeping somewhere in Brooklyn.
 Could explain the haste to move?
 There are seven of these cautionary pictures given.
 If one is prophetic, all 7 are.
 If one is a parable, all 7 are.
 If one is illustrative, all 7 are.
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 7, 2015 at 4:02 pm
 
Oh, shucks your taking all the fun outta it. I like to mix and match my reality with metaphoric hyperbole.
 Kinda like Rodgers rabbit meets celeb and sophia.
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:14 pm
 
@Reader.. EXCELLENT REASONING !! The 7 CONTORTIONISTS of BROOKLYN … DISTORT ??? Literal & Symbolic Terminology at the Flick of a Switch… Carrying on from your examples they do the same in the REVELATION with the 144,000 being LITERAL in the GB Eyes BUT the 12 TRIBES of Israel are NOT Literal according to the GB & being called VIRGINS is NOT LITERAL ,But according to the GB the number 144,000 is Literal … Then Again ??? NOW PONDERING on STEPHEN LETTS???? … He HAS GOT TO BE A VIRGIN ???
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 12:21 am
 
I know this is MILDLY ???OFF TOPIC? .. But WHO of the 7 Contortionists of Brooklyn GB are REALLY VIRGINS?? … I Really like MEDITATING on the Book of Revelation as it ENHANCES ??? My Spirituality & Draws me CLOSE to the F&D SLAVE !!
 I AM SURE ?? NONE of YOU that POST on this Site have ANY Thoughts on this DEEP TOPIC as I am on a MORE SPIRITUAL PLANE than you LOT?? … I SPEAK to FREDDY & NATHAN & JOSEPH & RUSS Daily ! …. It’s Alright I call Charles … Russ for short as we do talk on an hour to hour basis!!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 8, 2015 at 6:44 am
 
Def. T3 stands to reason… tight pants n all that and as a really ‘orrible man once said ‘Says so in the Scriptures’. (name that book/series)
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Jackson says:

 October 8, 2015 at 1:49 am
 
What you said is something I have always thought about myself. All must be literal or all must be parables. But when you are so brain washed as a Jdub you can not see 2 feet in front of you. I am so angry right now I am thinking very bad thoughts. Got to get ready for the gym now. Maybe that will help kool me down.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 7, 2015 at 7:30 pm
 
Doing da rebel dance, oh yeah, oh yeah… not at meeting, oh yeah, oh yeah, don’t care, don’t care….. doing da rebel dance….
Look at me, at home watching drivvel on Netflix and drinking wine BAHAHAHAHA.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:31 am
 
@Tara … CHILL OUT GIRL!!… You Sound Like a DRUNKEN SHEEP… BAAAaaaa
Reply
 
 
 
 Innocent Son says:

 October 8, 2015 at 2:38 am
 
Wow Lloyd this site just gets better and better! So much love and positive energy being generated, so many different posts to read. No wonder the Borg monitor this site, well get ready G B your Organisation is starting to implode! Many, many more honest hearted ones will be awakened and leave this cruel divisive cult. 7 men in designer suits squirming in their plush office chairs , trying to halt to the breech!!! Good luck with that, as the song says you’re ‘ Going Down ‘
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 8, 2015 at 6:25 am
 
@Innocent son- A little more than 2 years ago, shortly before my awakening as a brainwashed loyal Borg, a brother from a European country sent me an obscure email stating that there have been rumors circulating in some congregations that Jehovah’s organization was experiencing inner turmoil and dissidence and bleeding both money and members and that we should ignore these rumors as “apostate lies.” (Of course, bad news is always lies! LOL). I knew both him and his wife as missionaries and loyal Borgs…. oh I mean “servants” but I didn’t pay much attention to any of it as I was getting probably 25+ emails on a daily basis about this that and the other thing in the organization.
Fast forward 2+ years. What exactly do we see occurring right now? Exactly what that email told us to ignore! I was going to mention a side story I just remembered but it’s too complicated to write the whole thing and I have to get back to work but in summary, that zealous missionary brother who wrote the email warning us not to believe “apostate lies” is no longer a JW and is now divorced! From his Facebook posts, I don’t think he is going to be coming back any time soon.
Jeezus! How the tables turn!
Reply
 
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:06 am
 
When I was a regular pioneer…for many years…I used to reason with people on the ministry saying….’if you believe the bible then doesnt it make sense to look a your religion and test it against the things taught in the bible?’…it was usually very successfull….now its the last thing they want us every day r and f to do…. where on earth would you find the solid reasoning for the wierd and wonderful ‘overlapping generations’…where would be the sound reasoning for ‘shunning’ to the vicious extent it is used now..(it was much less constrictive in the 70s on this matter)…where is the real reasoning for not celebrating another year of life…and on and on and on and on….I got baptised at 13 and now Im 57 and still trapped…because of the blind obedience and Nazi like edicts of this cult…..Iv used my critical reasoning faculties now though…and gradually though an undercover fader I find myself getting less depressed and less scared….dont throw away your powers of reason…dont give anyone blind obedience…and never give up control of your mind…thank you all for this non judgmental forum of sound reasoning!
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 8, 2015 at 5:50 am
 
@Idontknowhatodo- Your words bring tears to my eyes. I was there too, I did full time — for – years. I know at the time, I really believed what I was teaching to others was THE TRUTH, despite having serious doubt about certain key doctrines such as Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 (the biggest lie), shunning, birthday celebrations, who the great crowd and other sheep are, Jesus’ parable of the faithful slave, and of course if we really are in the last days. But again, being a good LOYAL JW, I didn’t want to impose my questioning on others lest I stumble others and be branded “apostate!”
By the way, you are not trapped. Remember that FEAR is the driving force of this cult. Do not fear anyone!
May I ask you what your current standing in the congregation is?
If you’re active and in good standing, use that to help others. Send anonymous emails to everyone you know questioning the 607 lie or the latest overlapping generations lie. Plant seeds of TRUTH in their minds so they can use their reasoning abilities to find out what they need to know! I have several other tactics which I am using and they seem to be working. Some are actually FUN and the responses are priceless! For obvious reasons, I can’t mention them here. Use your imagination! :)
My awakening was fully actuated about 2 years ago. Since then I have been experiencing BS sensory overload! Once though, that initial step of searching for the TRUTH about “the truth” began, everything fell into place. I went though the various stages of shock – denial – sadness – emptiness – violent outrage – acceptance. However, I have made it my mission to have a helping hand in bringing down this cult and exposing it for what it is. And it is personal. Believe me. These #$!%@ pissed off the wrong dude.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 8, 2015 at 6:47 am
 
Don’t upset the Wookie
Reply
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:54 pm
 
Gentile times,
 If they run to 1914 from a bce date, shouldn’t they be adjusted?
 Because Jesus did say he could request ‘legion’s of angels’, beside some other items which suggest there might be a pause in the gentile times?
 If so add 34 years to 1914.
 Curious eh….
Reply
 
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 8, 2015 at 5:10 pm
 
My kind thoughts are with you. I spent many years defending the Org. One of many final straws was going on a Bible Study with another sister. The student was incredibly intelligent but also looking for insight into the Bible. Her pointed questions and pure puzzlement over our “explanations” made me realize once and for all this is total nonsence.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 8, 2015 at 9:04 am
 
With reguards to shunning had a great conversation with my hubby today slowly slowly releasee monkey. We were talking about greetings. We were down on the beach lots of different languages.We got onto the subject of the old german expression GrussGott (meaning hello and goodbye). In English we say Goodbye.(meaning God be with you). Maybe these old remnants of polite exchange that we stiil use were what was implied in the Bible.That is when you meet a known breaker of the rules just dont say a Godly greeting to him. Don’t bless him, rather treat him as one of the nations in that you would be polite and say a common greeting which we would say “Morning” and nod the head. Ireally do not think it meant annihilating the persons character,soul being, life by treating him as dead. It does not make sense,however if the sinner knew every time a brother saw him and did’t bless him it would be a reminder of his condition without continuosly reminding him of the sin. Just a thought. And i will repeat myself What God has yoked together let NO man put apart.This rotten religion has delighted in tearing apart the fabric of the family so now that it is in tatters there is no consolation Done good Done the Devil’s work for him. For shame for shame. ruthlee/ruthless
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 October 8, 2015 at 10:51 am
 
Shunning is a form of abuse and as indicated many times on this forum, violates an individual’s basic human rights.
Shunning is cruel, reduces an individual to a subhuman level, and is simply not Christian.
A truly spiritual person would not engage in or condone this type of behavior.
As indicated in the Bible, religion may divide people, which in my opinion is ok because people can agree to disagree about any matter and can be divided on various issues and still continue to have a normal relationship, but this religion doesn’t just divide families, it destroys families. To me that is a red flag that tells me that the witness religion is not directed by God.
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 8, 2015 at 12:58 pm
 
“Shunning is cruel, reduces an individual to a subhuman level, and is simply not Christian.” Rob, your absolutely right. JWs , in many cases fail to
 recognise that there is a law that “Supersedes all other Laws” and rules
 out applying any Bible command in a way that results in harm to another
 human being. Whether it be shunning, denying a life saving
 transfusion or anything else. Romans, 13:8-10.
 Best Wishes, Ted
Reply
 
 
 Gameisover says:

 October 8, 2015 at 1:05 pm
 
Shunning is what the farisees did. Jesus instead surrounded himself with people who were outcasts in that society.
 The word is out here that the door-to-door ministry will
 soon disappear. In that case, it makes sense they would scrap the TMS.
 Calling those who leave “apostates” has become a dreaded
 thing. Apostates are considered worse than any other
 motive for being disfellowshipped. The word in itself SCARES everyone.
 Could we call ourselves something else?
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:51 pm
 
I used to think the same. Now it makes me think of a group of courageous human beings who stand up for what they believe it. tag me with it if you want but I will hold my head up and tell the world with pride why I have that label.
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 8, 2015 at 2:22 pm
 
All of us who were Witnesses and shunned anybody who was disfellowshipped, were in effect, facilitators of abuse and didn’t even realize it. We were enablers of the narcissistic “slave”.
If we hadn’t shunned and all gone along with the shunning, it would have come to a stop. But we went along with it and our eyes were blind to the pain we were inflicting on the shunned. Our ears were deaf to the cries of the suffering and our mouths were mute because we didn’t speak up.
Why didn’t I speak up? That was the question that I had to ask myself That was a reason for it. What was the reason?
I had closed my mind to the pain that my shunning had on others until I am now the one that is being shunned. I am now wondering why won’t anybody listen to me to find out my side of why I am not going to meetings anymore and why they gave a marking talk about me? Why don’t they want to know what my problem is with the Watchtower Society?
I had been led to believe that when I became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, that all those people at the Kingdom Hall were now my “family”. They were supposed to love me like my own family. They were supposed to replace the family that I left behind. I was a faithful Witness for fifty years, going to meetings and service all that time. When I was going to meetings and service, they acted like thy really loved me, so why won’t any of those people who supposedly were my “family” and “friends” even acknowledge what happened to me?
The fact that nobody who was supposedly my “family” seems to not care about me anymore, left me in a constant state of questioning why. As long as that question was not answered, I could not rest. I had to know. I did it too. I shunned those same people who had been my friends. Why won’t any of those people that I thought “loved” me, not stand up for me, even my closest friends? I had to dig deep in my consciousness to find the answer.
Even after I left off going to meetings because I one hundred percent knew that God could never be behind the Watchtower Society because of all the lies they tell, I was still feeling abused mentally because of the fact that nobody at all was standing up for me. Was it a lack of character or integrity on my part? Is that why nobody is standing up for me? I don’t think so.
That is not the reason why I enabled the Society’s shunning policy to influence me to shun my fellow brothers and sisters.
What it really was, was that I dismissed and abandoned my own honesty and conscience for the approval of men. I allowed myself to be corrupted. It was cowardly and shameful and it showed that I had a weak character. I didn’t stand up for what I should have realized was evil. I was an enabler of abuse and I am deeply ashamed of myself for not having listened to my inner feelings. I should have listened to my gut but I let myself be bribed by the inheritance of the “new world” and the approval of men.
I prostituted myself to the Watchtower for a reward, the same as a prostitute sells her body for money. A person who looks for approval from men, more than he longs for the welfare of his brothers and sisters, is a moral prostitute. That desire for approval from men, can override a clean conscience towards those people who should be our closest and dearest friends and relatives.
So, those who are feeling that pain from the abuse of shunning have to realize, it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with them. Those who have abandoned you, have sold themselves for a bribe. They have prostituted themselves for a reward, the same as a streetwalker. They have devalued their integrity. What they are doing is repugnant and cowardly.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 8, 2015 at 8:18 pm
 
Anonymous, your comment is one of the most poignant things I’ve ever read on this site. There are varying opinions among us here regarding the subject of responsibility, but your words exquisitely represent the position of someone who rightly accepts that there are things that, even as brainwashed Witnesses, we should have never gone along with.
That’s not to say that the fact we were brainwashed shouldn’t mitigate ‘some’ of the guilt we carry. It should. And there are certainly those who deserve a much greater share of the responsibility than we do for the harm that has come as a result of the unconscionable shunning (and other) policies of the Org.
But I appreciate that you don’t feel like you were an entirely different person during your time in the Org, so that now you’re merely taking back ownership of your body now that that other person is gone.
I think accepting responsibility is a healthy way to move on. I believe remembering what we have been capable of in the past provides more of an incentive to never repeat the mistakes we’ve made.
That’s not to say that we should allow ourselves to be crushed by feelings of guilt. We just have to keep a balanced view of the past, and let it help us make a better future for ourselves, as better people.
Thank you again for your beautifully honest comment, and I truly wish you the best, and only happiness for your future.
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 11:27 pm
 
@Anonymous . I must say an ELOQUENT POST about SHUNNING & the Responsibility we ALL have been Guilty of because of the EDICTS of 7 FALLIBLE MEN !
 HAPPILY Last month I Put some of that Guilt behind me . A DISFELLOWSHIPPED ELDER & PIONEER who I had known from my Pioneer days in the 1980s crossed my Path in the street! I Walked Straight up to him & SHOOK HIS HAND! It was RISKY because it was in our territory & any JW could have driven past! BUT I am GLAD I spoke to him for about 40 minutes. He said to me ‘You Know I am STILL DISFELLOWSHIPPED ,But I am thinking of COMING BACK!!!!
 Well, Happily after discussing with him the FLIP FLOP Policies of the GB & the HIDDEN CHILD ABUSE & then he Proceeded to tell me the BAD ARROGANT ATTITUDE of a Circuit Overseer that he & I knew years ago & what went on behind the Scenes . Anyway at the end of the discussion He said I had CHANGED HIS MIND & instead he was going to train as a Counsellor to help young people because when he was an Elder he loved helping people ! So the Organisation is LOSING a LOT of the DECENT JWs because they see through the LIES & HYPOCRISY of the 7 BUSINESS MEN in BROOKLYN !!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 9, 2015 at 11:31 am
 
Fantastic, Pickled Brain! I applaud this victory in the fight against the vampires running the Org. I hope your acquaintance will indeed move on with his life and never devote another second to the service of this wretched cult. Very good work, my friend :)
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 8, 2015 at 3:17 pm
 
Anonymous.
 Just going back in this thread a little. Thanks for the
 additional evidence regarding the false date of 607 BCE
I looked it up and have put it in my little black book of
 quotes that come in useful when my Brother in Law
 Elder visits. He admitted after one particular shoot out
 that we had, that the GB were false prophets. But after
 57 years as a JW, and most of his in laws involved in it
 I don’t think he has the will to follow through on it.
 ( Unlike you dear lady). Best Wishes Ted.
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 October 8, 2015 at 3:48 pm
 
Ted, I tried to show that to my husband but he refused to look at it. At least your Brother in Law admitted that the GB are false prophets. That’s something anyway. Best wishes to you too.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jason wilkie says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:17 pm
 
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I have been struggling throughout my awaking with the lable “apostate”, however, after watching this video(and balling my eyes out) I am proud to stand up and say: “I AM AN APOSTATE AND I LOVE JWs!”
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 11:29 pm
 
@Jason . MANY Know How you Feel!!
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:17 pm
 
@Jason- Oh man, I wish I could give you a hug! Don’t feel bad about being labeled an apostate by false prophets! Be proud! When the false prophet calls YOU an apostate then you are on the right side!
May I ask you, are you DF’d?
If not then please considering staying in the “active publisher” ranks so you can help others get out!
If you are DF’ed, I’m sure you still have contacts by email and cell numbers! Write them questions about 607 BCE and other lies! Let them do some research! When they do, they will uncover the ugly truth!
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:18 pm
 
When the Watchtower puts in print that “apostates” are mentally diseased, they are trying to destroy that person’s reputation in the community and in the congregation and in their own families. The purpose of that defamation of a person’s reputation is deliberate. The Watchtower Organization has perfected the practice of word murder to a science.
The Watchtower Organization targets their own people, which is the most repulsive to a normal person’s thinking but it means nothing to the Watchtower Organization if a person’s reputation has been smeared by marking talks and disfellowshipping. It means nothing to the Watchtower if that person commits suicide because of it.
The cowardly “slave” will delude themselves with their imagined standing with God and engage in direct slanderous attacks on anyone who doesn’t share in that delusion and calls them on it.
If the Society’s elders or henchmen are too cowardly to call the “apostate” in to disfellowship him directly, then they will give “marking” talks about them. These cowardly attacks are non-direct with whisper campaigns. The intent is the same, to mentally murder that person with slander and like the cowards that they are, their weapons of choice will be words and all the while posing as pious and saintly.
Any of us who have either disassociated ourselves or been disfellowshipped directly or even faded have been the victim of of slander by the ones who were supposed to be our family our friends.
It is almost incomprehensible for a normal person to understand how people can be so evil, but especially when you realize that it’s the people who are the closest to them who are the very ones that these people will go after to destroy them if that person doesn’t worship them with the adulation that they so much have to have.
These people have no consciences. They have no love. It is only when we see the real people for what they really are, that it finally dawns on us, just how evil these people can be. Sometimes it takes decades. It did me. But I am glad I found out now, instead of later.
I’d rather not be in the dark one more day when it comes to these people who run the Watchtower. They are evil and every day, I am hoping that more and more people see them for what they really are and not for what they pretend to be.
It needs to be exposed for all to see so that it can be stopped dead in it’s tracks before it destroys one more person’s life. All lives are precious and the Watchtower destroys lives. It doesn’t make lives better. It destroys lives. It destroys families.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:23 pm
 
@Anonymous- WOW! GREAT COMMENT! And yes, I do know how it is. I have finally come to the conclusion that when the bible speaks about “False Prophets” and “speaking with a forked tongue” I know it is talking about ANY evil cult that PRETENDS to represent GOD and speaks about LOVE LOVE LOVE love love love LOVE and LOVE all day long yet INTENTIONALLY BREAKS FAMILIES APART AND CAUSES SO MUCH SUFFERING THAT PEOPLE WOULD RATHER DIE!
Yeah, I’m sure Jesus would approve! LOL
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 8, 2015 at 4:49 pm
 
Anonymous.
 A powerful heart searching statement. I understand your
 regrets. I have sat on committees that have disfellowshipped
 people who needed not punishment, but compassion and
 help, not more misery piled on them.
I am truly sorry for those things, and if it were possible to
 replay them my part in them would be vastly different.
 If we learn from our wrong actions and become better people,
 then something valuable has been salvaged from our past.
The initial mistake I made, and you allude to to it also. Was
 surrendering my conscience and reason to others, coming
 under their control. But we’ve snapped out of it, it’s all in the
 past. Best to leave it there and move on.
Reply
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 8, 2015 at 5:32 pm
 
Ted, your comment “I have sat on committes that have disfellowshipped people who needed not punishment, but compassion and help, not more misery piled on them” is the most insightful, succinct description of the experiences I have heard of the kangaroo court called the J W Judicial Committee. The whole process is barbarous with the final outcome even worse. In most cases these people are in pain and distress and need a loving “shepard”. Hah! GOOD LUCK!
Reply
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 8, 2015 at 5:37 pm
 
Shepherd I meant
Reply
 
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 8, 2015 at 5:57 pm
 
Ted, on a softer note, your apology was beautifully written and obviously extremely heartfelt. Thank you for doing that.
Reply
 
 
 
 Wild Olive says:

 October 8, 2015 at 8:01 pm
 
I came to the conclusion that my JW beliefs where wrong when I became an elder and found myself having to maintain policy’s that I knew weren’t scriptural ie disfellowshipping, handling child abuse,elevating the organization to sacred status,teaching changing truths that had to be discarded, to name a few.
 However the brotherhood still have to be admired for their humility and attempts at being spiritual, and that remains my concern, how to give true support to good people without tearing their belief system to pieces?
 It’s easy to critisize and fault find,but the Christian message is still going out and Christ is still looking for those who belong to him, and many JWs display a good heart despite the GB trying their best to interfere in that process.
 It’s not over till the fat lady sings,I feel many who have left will be the ones who are going to help those in when the reality of what’s going on is undeniable, the ARG in Australia is a good example of this,so while it’s easy to be negative, a TRUE Christian is going to show love no matter what the circumstance,I believe this to be the challenge that faces everyone on this site that knows TATT, Jesus helped those in need despite the fear and intimidation of the Pharisees who were the governing body of Israel , can we be the same as Jesus ?
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:29 am
 
It will be their great tribulation if they don’t wake up first. The dubs will mourn and cry for their precious lifestyle ,not that God’s name was defamed or that they demoted Jesus.Ive thought long and hard about those trapped in the tower and like when we were vulnerable and became trapped let’s hope there will be a window of opportunity to escape before the crumbling tower finally collapses.Who knows it might be a scarlet cord moment. ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 4:36 am
 
@Wild Olive .. I thought Long & Hard about your comment because sometimes I ADMIT .. My Fingers Typing are more often than Not .. FASTER Than My BRAIN . I Like your KIND & REASONED Style of Commenting & I presume when you Refer to the ‘ BROTHERHOOD ‘ as being Spiritual & Humble , you Meant the Ordinary ‘Rank & File ‘ & NOT the GB & I would Totally Agree that MOST Brothers & Sisters are Genuine Humble & Decent People !
 The point you make about ‘Tearing Down Their Belief System’ …. Well Jesus did TEAR DOWN The Pharasaical ORGANISATION of the Ordinary Jewish Persons of his Day … In Fact JESUS RIPPED IT APART … Hook , Line & Sinker!! He OPENLY & BLUNTLY TRASHED the Pharasaical Organisation Apart in front of Ordinary ‘RANK & FILE ‘ JEWS by Calling them WHITEWASHED GRAVES FULL of DEAD MENS BONES& Told the Pharisees they were from their FATHER … THE DEVIL !!
 SO I Presume the PARALLEL would be US here on this site to try & imitate Jesus & CONDEMN These 7 GB PHARISEES for what they are ??
 I AGREE with you & Sometimes it will be VERY VERY PAINFUL & MENTALLY DEVASTATING to have our Whole BELIEF STRUCTURE DESTROYED , But the Alternative is MILLIONS will be Dragged into this CULT & Millions more CHILDREN BORN IN Not finding out until HALF their LIVES are wasted .
 If I am WRONG in my comment I am willing to be corrected because what I like about this site is that WE CAN ALL DISAGREE with One Another yet Remain Friends & NOT BE SHUNNED … UNLIKE the WATCHTOWER ORGANISATION !!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 9:00 am
 
Hold me back!, hold me back!
Reply
 
 
 Wild Olive says:

 October 9, 2015 at 2:33 pm
 
Yes PB, I mean the humble not the magnificent 7 and all who are infatuated with them .
 It’s clear that the GB have become modern day Pharisees, to a tee, and yes Jesus roundly condemned them,but he didn’t tell his disciples to abandon the system of worship that the Pharisees where care taking, Jesus warned his followers not to take up the attitudes of the Pharisees, ie lovers of money,power,titles,looking righteous publicly,putting tradition ahead of the scriptures etc.
 This is as I see it the real challenge, for the first time in my life Ime experiencing what Jesus experienced, caught between what’s true and false,so while Jesus roasted the pharisees(Mathew 23) he was compassionate and caring for those mislead by them. That’s the the challenge everyone on this site has to accept, am I going to show true Christian love and behaviour,or be just as pharisaical towards the mislead?
 I don’t see Jesus going around calling the lost in the nation of Israel by disparaging names like ” the dubs” or ” kool aid drinkers” . Like Jesus said your righteousness needs to be more than the Pharisees not below it. If you are genuinely desiring to help the lost in the org,then help them with LOVE , and prove you belong to Christ,not to a different group of Pharisees.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 8:33 pm
 
@Wild Olive . Thank you for your Reply. & Nice Comment! … You were Obviously a Kind Hearted & Warm Elder when you were in the Organisation & You STILL are ! That is Why you Got OUT of the Clutches of the GB because you could see the Hypocrisy of the GB & ALL the Elders by following the Directives of the GB were NOT Allowing their own consciences dictate what was Right according to Christ BUT following the Consciences & Whims of the GB whether on issues like Blood Transfusions, Organ Transplants, Reporting of Child Abuse to the Police Immediately, Baptising Children under 18 , etc, etc .
 I know you said you don’t like the words ‘JDUBS’ or ‘Drinking the Kool Aid’ which I have never used but I maybe those who use this terminology are Ex-JWs who are frustrated , angry at what has happened to them , but you are Right that the best way to help people is through LOVE & RESPECT .
 And Thanks Again for your Reply . Take care & Keep Up the Fight against the Injustices of the the JW Organisation.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 9, 2015 at 11:36 pm
 
Wild Olive, if some here speak in terms that would offend someone with feelings as delicate as a butterfly’s wing, that hardly puts them in the class of the Pharisees. Many of us here are ourselves the walking wounded, carrying pain and dealing with struggles that we will likely never fully convey to each other.
Along with that comes an understanding that sometimes we will hear language that–rather than intended to be an insult to those still in captivity–is really only reflecting the commenter’s own frustration over something, or anger, regret, sadness, etc.
If someone looking for answers is turned off by what they hear us say, then they may not be ready for the truth yet. Or, it could simply turn out that this may not be the site that will most effectively reach them. After all, even the articles and videos on this site are not designed to softly tiptoe up and gently whisper the truth into people’s delicate little ears.
Attempting to stifle freeness of speech in the JWsurvey Comments section will not prove to be a worthwhile use of your time.
Although truly abusive speech won’t be tolerated here, a little well-placed sarcasm, with the occasional spritz of derision, easily falls withing our normal operating parameters.
Reply
 
 Wild Olive says:

 October 10, 2015 at 3:36 am
 
JBReezner,Ime hearing what you say,and yes there is plenty of GB induced pain out there,but this is the whole crux of the matter,at one point in time what all of us learnt from our WT days had a beneficial effect,something changed, I know personally that if I am going to progress as a human then I can no longer believe what’s printed in the WT
 But my younger years “in the truth” where without a doubt the best years of my life, most of the people I knew back then who where not JWs had drug and alcohol problems,lived promiscuous lives that cased them a lot of heart ache. And me I was spared all of that.I have nothing to regret from my youth,but I know people who are still battling demons from their teenage years. And I have to give the credit to what was taught and encouraged by the org.
 What I want to hear on this site is the alternatives, no one really offers anything concrete,maybe because they are humble,or maybe they are still lost and just want to vent,I don’t know, I would like to hear solutions, I want to hear how people have improved,I want to hear how WT chains are broken, I want something better,is that too much to ask?

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 10:22 am
 
Well said, Wild Olive. You made your needs more clear with that. And no, what you’re wanting is not too much to ask– but it may be something that you do literally have to ask to get.
You don’t have to wait until one of us says something particularly enlightening about our personal recovery process. You can simply ask the gang, “Hey, what’s helping you folks to carry on after finding out you were living your lives in the service of a cult?”
Many here have already answered that question more than once since coming to this site, so that is likely one reason why you don’t hear those personal advice comments more often. But surely most here would be happy to reiterate the things that have helped them to cope and move on, if someone asks.
As for the beneficial effects of having been in a cult for many years, I’ve heard that line of reasoning before. I’ve even let that thought rattle around in my own head at times. But I’ve ended up with this take on it: None of us know who we COULD have been had we not been trapped in a high-control cult.
Sure, it may not be that we would’ve been destined for greatness, but neither should we assume that we would’ve crashed and burned like others we may know of who weren’t living a strictly-controlled lifestyle. We have no idea what good “worldy” people could’ve come into our lives, providing positive influences, good advice and good examples.
I do agree that we shouldn’t be filled with so many caustic feelings toward the Org that it tears us apart, but neither should we spend very much time giving credit to a family-destroying, child-killing false religion for making us better people.
As for solutions, learning we’re in a cult sometimes doesn’t come with any clear solutions. It’s a case-by-case issue. Sometimes getting out isn’t even a viable option, which brings us back to the value of having this place where we can vent to each other, enjoy each other’s company and encourage each other as only people with this unique, shared experience can.
So, hang in there with us, make any necessary adjustments to the thickness of your skin, keep an open mind, feel free to share experiences and ask questions, and enjoy the ride, my friend.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 8, 2015 at 9:12 pm
 
Did I detect a little Watchtowerese at the tail end of that comment, Wild Olive?? Ewwwww…
You can hope for a delicate awakening for those in the Org, but there will be no dodging the harsh reality that the time, money and effort they sacrificed to this cult was utterly wasted. And even if you leave a framework of Christianity intact, there will still be a very large part of their belief system that WILL necessarily be torn to pieces.
But, as you say, there are many good people still in there. So I hope that they can get out with as little trauma as possible.
Pickled Brain is our resident expert at techniques of gentle persuasion. When he gets back on here, I’m sure he will be able to offer a suggestion or two of how to best reach our friends who are still in the clutches of the Org. :)
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 8, 2015 at 11:40 pm
 
@JB Reezner . AHAaa . Gentle Persuasion Techniques… It Has Been WHISPERED to me I Have … HIDDEN POWERS???
 JB have a look at my above Reply to Anonymous about my Gentle Persuasion Technique with a DISFELLOWSHIPPED ELDER & PIONEER!
Reply
 
 
 
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← Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
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62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses
avatar 
Posted on October 4, 2015

62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah's Witnesses
62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah’s Witnesses

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you will have to be satisfied with remembering October 4th 2015 as the day congregations worldwide were informed of the scrapping of the Theocratic Ministry School – over a week after the news was leaked in advance by a Bethel source.
But if you are a former Jehovah’s Witness, or an “apostate,” you can take pride in thinking of October 4th 2015 as the day when more ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses than have ever before appeared in a single video with a message of love and concern for those still trapped inside the Watchtower organization.
Organized to commemorate the anniversary of this website’s launch on October 4th 2011, the short montage film represents the joint efforts of 62 “apostates” from far-flung corners of the globe. Rather than trying to condemn Jehovah’s Witnesses, the video sets out to debunk the damning stereotypes of apostates as disseminated in Watchtower publications.
Instead of appearing as foaming-at-the-mouth mentally diseased vagrants, the apostates in the video are calm, rational people who have walked away from a religion that causes far more harm than good, and is ultimately untrue.
It is hoped that the video, with its intriguing title, will reach out to as many Jehovah’s Witnesses on YouTube as possible, and get them to rethink their position regarding doing objective research into their cherished beliefs.


[Please note: Due to a music rights issue, the video does not play on all handheld devices.]
JWsurvey Day was first announced at the end of August, and the collaborative video was given the working title of “What you DON’T know about apostates.” A Facebook group was set up, and the script was made available online for people to choose which lines they wanted to speak.
However, as more and more people signed up for an ever-diminishing number of parts in the video, it became clear that something special was happening. The sheer number of people who wanted to share in delivering the video’s message was an event in itself.
Last night, as the deadline for the video drew close, I stayed up until 4 am making last-minute edits. Over 4 gigabytes of video submissions had to be sorted and whittled down to a final 15-minute short film. As the video took on its own personality I noticed a change was needed. The original title would be scrapped in favor of “62 Apostates Who Love Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (There are actually more than 62 apostates appearing in the film, but because I would rather downplay the figure than exaggerate, I have counted only those who speak in the final edit.)
I sincerely hope that we can do the video justice by making sure it is shared as widely as possible. It’s wonderful to see the enthusiastic response already on Facebook and Twitter from ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are enjoying seeing their own thoughts about Watchtower verbalized by such a wide array of people.
Special mention must also be made of all those who have worked in translating the subtitles for the video. Presently there are 8 languages available, but a further 9 are in the pipeline. Michel Mix (pictured below), a member of the JWsurvey Day group, has done a fantastic job of coordinating the translation project from his base in Colombia.
Oftentimes when I do activism work on my own (for example, a large JW Broadcasting rebuttal), I can find the process genuinely tiring – and even mildly frustrating. But when I am working with so many sincere people, I feel the burden lifted. Activism becomes the unbridled joy it should be. I am working with like-minded individuals who share my passion towards an important goal, which is one of the best feelings you can have in life.
A tribute to JWsurvey
When I first set up JWsurvey, it did feel like “my website” – and I still catch myself speaking in those terms occasionally. But as I look back on the work that has been done and the huge potential for making a difference moving forward, I find those ideas are shifting. JWsurvey is becoming more of a legacy.
In the most recent 2015 survey, one of the questions asks which resources have been most instrumental in the person’s awakening from Watchtower indoctrination. The answers as of October 4, 2015 are as follows…
table
In total, 1,218 have so far credited this website as either very or extremely influential in their awakening. This figure, and the figures for other similar websites, are simply astonishing. It is a sobering reminder of just how much work the internet is doing in chipping away at Watchtower’s stranglehold on people’s minds.
It also means the role of this website is more important than any one single person, which is why I have been gradually expanding our team of writers and illustrators over the past year or so. My eventual aim is to leave JWsurvey in the capable hands of the next generation of activists, to hopefully continue on long after the bulk of my work is finished.
In the meantime, there is still much work to do – work that is made far more enjoyable when I allow myself pause to reflect on what has been accomplished. In that spirit, I hope you will join me in celebrating today, October 4th, as “JWsurvey Day.” And I leave you with some short messages that have been sent in by our readers…
Please note, I haven’t been able to publish all the comments as some are too long, but I will try to find a way of somehow adding some to this article either as links to Word documents or as comments.
***
[Anonymous]
Put simply, JWsurvey enabled me to fully wake up. As an elders daughter who had pioneered – I faded from the organisation aged 21. I wanted to think for myself; I started to have an awareness that my thoughts were being controlled. This was not easy; I left behind my whole community to embark on a journey to educate myself and build a new support network.
Now aged 30, it has only been in the last 18 months that I have been fully awoken and free from JW indoctrination, thank you to JWsurvey and the John Cedars YouTube channel. This intelligent, insightful, educational, humorous and honest website, truly helped me to understand the facts as to why I had left. For this I will be eternally grateful. In the past two years I have been able to live a normal happy life, without any guilt, fear or regret – this is priceless. In addition to this, my child had been born free. One of the greatest gifts I could give him.
Please keep up the good work! You do an amazing job.
Thank you once again.
***
Michel Mix
M.Mix
My name is Michel Mix. I grew up in the truth and got baptized when I was 14 years old. After finishing high school I was advised to go to university. Instead I started a part-time distance education course (which I quit when I married a fellow Jehovah’s Witness), went pioneering and became a ministerial servant.
I always loved studying to Bible, but find out that many teachings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses were un-Biblical and merely human interpretations. It that didn’t bother me too much though, I still thought it was the ‘truth’.
When after many years my marriage broke up, I lost all my faith: I’d dedicated many years of my life to a God who didn’t support me at all. I got into a new relationship and the Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped me from the congregation. My former friends and even family members won’t talk to me anymore. That hurts. A lot.
Sites like JWsurvey.org helped me to realize the truth about the ‘truth’: Jehovah’s Witnesses are not just a religion like all the others. They are WORSE. The indoctrination is overwhelming and there are a lot of victims. All my doubts about teachings that I had in the past, were confirmed. And I found out that many members don’t agree with the teachings, but cannot leave for social reasons.
For me leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses was the best thing I ever did. I’m happy and free! I remarried, moved from The Netherlands to Colombia, enrolled in university and we are expecting a baby. I’ve lost 20 years of my life, but the future is still bright and shining!
***
Yvette Rucker
image4
I became a witness in my early 20s. The promise of a paradise earth where there is peace and unity among all mankind especially between a husband and wife appealed to me.  I wanted this kind of world for my children. I studied and became a witness hoping and praying my husband would too and he did,  but it did not make my marriage better it only made it worse.  My husband believing that I now was scripturally bound to obey gave him total control and he was even more abusive. There came a day when I realize that if I stayed with him he would kill me and our children so I made the decision to leave and I did.
Of course, I was no longer good association because I separated from my husband and eventually divorced him to protect myself and the children.  Being a single mother was hard I had to work 2 jobs to support us but at least we did not have to live in constant fear.  The congregation had little to do with me so I received no help from them I was completely on my own  I missed so many meetings trying to work and take care of my children. 
My older daughter introduced me to your website because she no longer believed it was the truth, because of the way we were treated.  She pointed out scriptures that showed that her dad was not the loving Christian husband he should have been and that the elders were told and sympathized with him cutting me off from a faith I believed in wholeheartedly all those years.
I did read JWsurvey and all the links as well. JWsurvey helped me loose the fear and guilt that comes with leaving what you come to believe is Gods organization. I have been able to heal and i am still healing.   Thank you so much for the real truth about the Watchtower organization
***
Julia Douglas
2015-09-27 19.34.56
I remember when JWSurvey was just an idea and Lloyd was only known by his pseudonym and had yet to officially break ties with the Watchtower. I had already been disfellowshipped and was using my true identity on Facebook, but that’s not to say I was truly free of the brainwashing and programming. I struggled for a long time… and reading the articles on JWSurvey proved to be a regular source of fact-based, reliable information that I have come to rely on.
It’s always exciting when there is a leak, but more importantly, JWSurvey has been a comfort to the demons plaguing my mind. Lloyd has a remarkable ability to quickly read, digest, comprehend and effectively refute Watchtower propaganda, time and time again. Sensationalism would only detract from the well-reasoned information that JWSurvey presents, and Lloyd does not take short cuts. For all of these reasons, I would say JWSurvey is one of the go to websites that I regularly refer people to, and I hope that Lloyd and his team will continue to maintain the high standards of quality in the days ahead.
***


Patricia Burford
patricia2
 I am a former JW, I left the organization when I was 17. Recently I accepted a bible study from a JW, I was having feelings of disconnect from religion. I thought since I had left the organization at such a young age, maybe I just needed to reintroduce myself and see if I had made a mistake all those years ago because of rebellion and my youth. 

In the few weeks of my study, some issues from my past started surfacing. I had to deal with issues I had pushed back all those years ago. I had a ministerial father who was very abusive and a pioneer mother who had no clue. I went to a congregation where the elders knew what was taking place yet took no action.

I began to wonder why these things were coming to the surface 35 years later. I truly believe that in stages of our life we are led to face our past in order to grow and move forward. This got me to thinking about other JW’s, there had to be others that felt the same as I did and had similar experiences.

So I started to google, and JWsurvey popped up, I dived right in. I spent the whole day reading and watching the video’s. I found answers to questions I have had for years in just those few hours. I learned more about the JW’s and the organization that day, than I had being raised a JW for 17 years. John Cedars (Lloyd) has been there and experienced the same as we have.  He has proof and he backs up everything that he brings to the table. JWsurvey shows what this cult is all about and the information shared is to save us..

I am so grateful for all the work you do.

(Regarding the picture, I am the older gal… This is my daughter and I…)
 


***


Susannah
I left the witnesses aged 27. I am now 60. I have had a good life. I got an education, met some wonderful people and made a new life. I buried my feelings about family and friends. Around the time or just after my JW sister died in 2012, I discovered JWsurvey. I could not believe what I was reading. Lloyd not only understood but wrote about his experience, intelligently, passionately and with a brave honesty. I remember watching him in his car the night he went for his JC. I cried when his father wrote to him, cutting him off. Watching, reading and listening was like being given permission to breath and to speak. JWsurvey has helped me heal when I did not even realise I needed to heal. It has helped me recognise the folly of the beliefs. It let me get in contact with my anger, my sadness, it let me cry and then forgive. This is a cult that has held my family in fear and still does. The fact that JWsurvey exists may mean the next generation will be free. For that I am grateful.


***


Uwe Schoning
I da/df myself in 2003 … but defended the JWs and their policies a long time. Somehow in 2011 this stopped. A year later I knew I had to work up my past and I was searching for people with the same thoughts… that something in the organization was not right!
I found a German forum of escapists but felt like I would never fit in… and then I found JWSurvey.org and the kind words on this page showed me, that the author was indeed empathic and would exactly know what I was thinking. His objective arguments and the information he provided confirmed me… I had not left the truth… I left a dangerous cult. And his non-agressive activism showed me, that it is not a bad thing to be an apostate…
JWSurvey helped me to understand, that the truth about the “truth“ is a story about deluded old men, who think their claim to lead is based on a story Jesus told.
JWSurvey showed me, that apostates do indeed care for the people still caught in the organization… and are indeed good people.
***

Mika
Mika July 2015 40th BDay
My name is Mika from Michigan in the United States. I couldn’t pass up this opportunity to voice how helpful JWSurvey was to me when I found the courage to turn in my letter of disassociation from Watchtower/JW. Although I saw a different activist account and website first, JWSurvey/John Cedars YouTube channel and website were by far the most helpful to me.
Visiting JWSurvey helped me get an idea of what to expect beforehand from the shunning that was sure to and did follow my exit from the religion, I also found needed encouragement and support from the articles and community of posters. I have always favored the honest, logical, balanced approach and visitor feedback your website & YouTube channel affords which made it enjoyable to view/visit.
One thing it helped I’m sure many visitors realize, is the choice we had all along to free, happy lives without instilled fear through cult doctrine. JWSurvey isn’t extremist nor does it promote fairy tales, it simply states the facts and sets an example in speaking up against the harmful effects of cults in an empathetic way that many could relate to.
JWSurvey gave me much courage and support while helping me realize freedom and peace of mind were already mine, I only need reclaim it from the undue influence of the cult that influenced me to believe otherwise. JWSurvey educated me on effective ways I could help others. I know it would have been more challenging for me had I not came across your activism efforts, but I am beyond grateful that I did.I don’t want to sound overly dramatic here, but it is true when I sum it up in one sentence, JWSurvey helped me reclaim long-overdue emotional freedom and joy in my life.
THANK YOU!
 
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Further reading…
◾Hemant Mehta’s “Friendly Atheist” article on the 62 Apostates video
Video trailers…






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← Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing →
 
475 Responses to 62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses

← Older Comments
 
 Jake says:

 October 8, 2015 at 9:46 pm
 
I think that the Watchtower has genuinely genuinely hurt people. ‘ there’s a wizard locked in his tower’.
I don’t think they going to recover, the momentum is to strong, it’s a matter of time. Though they have helped people to have a foundation of faith they have in turn destroyed, by their teachings and actions, their own members faith. One million Jehovahs Witnesses over the last ten-eight years are unaccounted for. Watchtower in its defence describes some of these ones as apostates rather than dealing with the issues that it has created, it seems it wants to take rather than give, to be submitted to rather than submit. The Watchtower continues to bury it’s head and tell its members not to listen to legitimate concerns it will eventually have to answer. The truth is the Ivory tower and the pain it’s cause is unexceptible, cruel and wrong but above all unsustainable. Personally the (so called) holy place will be no more. Millions of Witnesses are waking up, money is drying up, truth changes day to day in the hope the boat doesn’t capsize. Personally I believe this is the start of the end game. i personally believe that the man of lawlessness will take control over Christians before being exposed before the genuine presence of Chirst and I believe this is it. Other than that we’ll wait and see but either which way the Watchtower will come to its end and pay for the damage it has infflicted. No one hates Jehovahs Witnesses, we’ve all been there, it’s the way they are abused that is hated and the personal suffering endured by many here, still, not one word of apology, it does not bode well.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 9, 2015 at 7:39 am
 
Well said Jake.
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:46 pm
 
@Jake- Well said man. Believe me, the GB has no idea what is happening right below their feet. No idea. As I always like to say now, “Thank YHWH for the internet!”
But to quote from the King James (not from that adulterated, tampered, stained, soiled, useless piece of dog excrement called the New World Translation!)
“For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.”- Luke 12:2 (for you bible lovers out there!)
Yes! I have a feeling that verse may actually be a warning to the “Faithful Slave!”
A little off topic but TGIF! Work has been so crazy around here due to the cut backs and layoffs. I’m now doing the work of three people and not a penny raise. So I’m about to smoke a nice juicy Cohiba I’ve been saving. I usually smoke once a month but this month is twice! 😉 The countdown has begun! Only 15 minutes to freedom!
Reply
 
 Mitch Jensen says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:03 pm
 
I never knew how little we actually used the Bible, the NWT is horrible! I know most of the GB know they have nothing in common with God or Christians and spiritual humans seeking truth.
Reading how Russell, Rutherford and Fred Franz taught “humans alone with Bibles is dangerous!” their gist, sounds like the Crazed Popes during the Inquisition trying to root out everyone not following false religious leaders. Elders share their burden of guilt, their the GBs Inquisitional Forces seeking out any possible threat busting up their mind control.
The Watchtower has hired professional public relations teams to combat all the negative publicity your causing. The Internet is too big for them to control and all the remaining members are not very loving, their angry and confused “The End:” has not arrived!
Obituaries daily prove “The Generation that will not pass away!” is a lie, a hoax and now JWs won’t think because the alternative is admitting your right! NWL, a terrible version of the Bible, sorry!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 October 8, 2015 at 10:03 pm
 
Many Jehovah’s Witness, as did the majority, need a scriptural bases to wake up.x
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 8:02 am
 
Spot on Jake, sad so many are blind to this crucial piece of the puzzle.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:37 am
 
Any thoughts? Why dont the GB ask the minions to look for anointed ones in their sacred ministry. Surely that would be the priority since they are so close to their end and the rapture is three weeks tuesday!And if they find more of these darling ones why don’t they let us know.Seeing as there are sooooo many aposties who don’t fit GB criteria but claim to be Christ’s brothers, children of God even, they must be tripping over new special sheep.Funny that NO new revelations yet (please note GB my suggestions first not yours ) ruthless
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 9, 2015 at 7:40 am
 
I can’t manage Tuesday… it ‘overlaps’ my week.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:59 pm
 
@Tara .. WHY CANT YOU MANAGE TUESDAY??? ….. I DONT BELIEVE APOSTATES!!! … FANCY COMING UP with that OLD EXCUSE…. I MEAN …. OVERLAPPING TUESDAYS????
 OHhhhh PLEASE!!!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 7:34 am
 
I have a meeting of Apostates Anonymous.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 1:46 pm
 
I’m glad you’re seeking help in a Twelve-Step Program, Tara. They can be very effective.
Step 1: Admit you have a problem.
 Step 2: Realize that Zep’s Whole Lotta Love is better than any Kingdom Melody that’s ever been written.
 Step 3: Understand that the tightness of your pants doesn’t define YOU as a person.
Once again, I’m good for three and then have to pass it on :)

 
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:58 pm
 
Hi everyone, my name is Tara and I am an apostate. Wow that feels so good :)
Step #4 Do happy dance that it is out in the open.
 Step #5 do happy dance to Whole Lotta Love.
 Step #6 put drink down before doing happy dance to Whole Lotta Love
 Step #7 clean up mess on floor after doing happy dance to whole Lotta Love.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:51 pm
 
“Hiii Tara”, applause, applause.
Wow! Who would’ve known that Whole Lotta Love would figure so prominently in a twelve-step program, lol!? Awesome!!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 October 9, 2015 at 4:50 am
 
Let me take a look at the Jehovah’s Witness point of view regarding the faithful slave (which I believe applies individually) which they already apply to themselves.
 According to JW’s this compersite slave is charged with managing the masters household which includes- managing the finances, the distribution food and the well being of the slaves.
 How of they got on?
 Many of the branch facilities are closing. Take for example Spain. Congregants were asked to donate towards this new building. Many, I believe, donated cash and family jewellery. Some years later the Watchtower had a disagreement with the state regarding pension plans . . The branch closed. Was the money returned?
 Imagine paying towards, and working on the building of a property, then for it to be sold and for you not to see any of the profit because they had to pay you for you work. . . And then ask you for more money!
 Who owns your current KH and who takes on the responsibility of the cost through debt and interest of any refurbishment?
 How about food?, enough said.
 So here I am looking after my household and a child suffers from abuse, what do I do?, I keep my mouth shut and tell them it’s their responsibility. Faithful? You work it out.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 2:09 pm
 
@Jake . You make REALLY GOOD POINTS in BOTH of your Posts above!!
 The Trouble is the GB & WATCHTOWER Inc. HATE People Who Think & Reason . The GB want ROBOTS!!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:09 am
 
Holly Chu.
 Thanks for your kind comments. Your description of the
 Judicial trials as “Barbarous” is so often relevant. One
 particular case in our cong, was especially inhumane.–
A young man who suffered with Haemophilia, was
 hospitalised several times and refused a transfusion,
 then he was given the awful choice of either accepting
 blood or dying within hours. He had a wife and two small
 children who depended upon him, and I suppose, in a
 weakened state, he accepted blood.
At the hearing he pleaded not to be disfellowshipped,
 but the CO, who presided, shamed him further by citing
 the courage of bros, in Malawi. This man though had
 struggled for years with a terrible problem and had shown
 courage many times.
Sadly less than a year later he died, and we weren’t even allowed
 to give him a funeral. Then later in the WT, they gave us permission
 to use our conscience in the matter of funerals for the
 disfellowshipped. As you say Holly barbaric, in the truest sense
 of the word. Best Wishes. Ted.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:26 am
 
@ Ted .. Very Very Sad for that poor Brother & his family .. That C.O . Should be ASHAMED of Himself . Whereas Jesus disciples plucked heads of grain on the Sabbath which the Pharisees Condemned them for , BUT Jesus said ‘I WANT LOVE,JUSTICE & MERCY, Not Sacrifice !
 & on the point of GB changing policies on whether one can attend a DISFELLOWSHIPPED ONEs FUNERAL …. Reminds me of the Ever Changing Stance on ORGAN TRANSPLANTS .. Before 1967 Yes you can! 1967 to 1980 NO YOU CANT ;.. 1980 to 2015 YES YOU CAN !!
 These 7 MASS MURDERERS of BROOKLYN ( Hope I am not being too subtle here)..have been Responsible for How Many Lost Lives? & How many Families have LOST a Father,Mother or CHILD Needlessly because of the Constant Flip Flop Changes of these 7 Arrogant Men??
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 9, 2015 at 6:13 am
 
Ted, I am quoting from Crisis of Conscience on page 359 concerning those suffering from hemophilia:
“Even accepting the date of June 11, 1975, as the date the change in policy was decided upon, the fact remains that it was not until THREE YEARS LATER, in the June 15, 1978 Watchtower (pages 30,31), that the organization published a statement ensuring that all Witness hemophiliacs who had been told that their use of blood fractions to counteract hemorrhaging was limited to a “one-time-only” occasion might learn that this rule no longer applied. What emergencies might have been faced during those three years by Witness hemophiliacs who knew only the previous policy there is no way of knowing.”
The Watchtower has no conscience. It was okay for hemophiliacs to take blood but most were not aware of it and the rank and file were never told either. If it was okay for hemophiliacs to take blood to save their life, then it should have been okay for the rank and file.
Only people who have no conscience would take the life and death of their followers so lightly.
Reply
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 10, 2015 at 6:07 am
 
Oh, another “secrect” rule?? Just like the Elders Book, one that any Pharisee would be proud to own. The GB makes me sick.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 9, 2015 at 7:43 am
 
truly blood on their hands! rl
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:21 pm
 
Ted,
That story is so sad.
That’s the problem with this cult. It’s not until you stand back & look at the overall picture that you see the picture in its true form.
I have to admit that while in, I insulated myself to my own little fantasy world to convince myself that it was the truth & the more that I doubted, the more that I curled into my shell. Not daring to peek at anything that seemed to contradict my faith but the more I did that the more that I became depressed because my intuition was screaming at me to be heard.
People who are in abusive situations often don’t realise that they are in them because the abuser has convinced them that this is normal & right behaviour.
To JB,
I said hullo to hubby & he says hi back to you & everyone here. He’s a sideliner & not a great reader. You have all helped him too. He was still an MS when I dropped the bomb on him & said that I didn’t want to be in this religion anymore & that I came to the conclusion that it was a crock of sh*t. It had been building to that though.
Luckily for me, he saw it that way too but didn’t know how to analyse his thoughts so we talked & talked & I researched & read books & we managed to find our way out together.
After reading others stories on here & their still in spouses, I’m lucky it didn’t backfire on me.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 9, 2015 at 2:54 pm
 
Thanks for relaying his greeting, Grace. Wow, I’m happy to hear that you both reached the same conclusions and came out together. I’m trying to do better at remembering who here is in what situation. The stories here run the full spectrum.
I’m glad we have this place. Thanks for including me in your new family. Even if I end up being the red-headed stepchild, I will still appreciate being here, lol.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 9, 2015 at 4:56 pm
 
JB,
Consider yourself officially adopted.
We loved having the younger ones in our lives, they filled our house with laughter & we let them be themselves. It got awfully lonely when they started to back off from us (parents would have told them to) but we didn’t hold it against them because we know that they’re just victims of victims like Ray Franz put it.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:24 pm
 
Well, say goodbye to any loneliness you guys might still be feeling… I’m moving in IMMEDIATELY! Now, eh, there’s a rumor going around that I’m in my mid-forties, but no, that’s all baloney. I’ve got that Benjamin Button condition that makes me look 40 years older than I really am. Just set me up with a comfy bedroom, and all the food and chocolate chip cookies I can eat, and we’ll be in business! And tell Papa G that I’ll be expecting a game of catch in the backyard everyday too!
Ok, I’m just bein’ goofy. But thanks for that nice comment, Grace. It made my day!

 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 10, 2015 at 1:01 am
 
Hi Grace’s hubby. He sounds a bit like mine, except the penny dropped with him just before me. Mine tends to ban the subject in our household unless there is something really significant to talk about. He hates the cult.
He was an MS and got to see firsthand all the crap that went on and he used to tell me about it. I remember when he attending the meeting about the theocratic warfare stuff, he freaked and from then on, he told me he wanted to step down as he couldn’t stomach it anymore. I protested like a good theocratic wife and realised after a while that he needed to quit as it was making him so depressed. From then on, my attitude changed. The flaws began showing like I was looking though a magnifying glass. I couldn’t believe what I was actually seeing for myself.
Anyway, I’m so glad to communicate with your wife and everybody else here on this site. It’s great. All the best to you.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 10, 2015 at 1:03 am
 
JB, I know your not in your forties because you know the same music as me. I threw out my record collection too.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 7:54 am
 
Well Meredith J, various ages could apply. We could go by how I FEEL on a daily basis– in which case you could go ahead and consider me to be in my NINETIES 😉

 
 
 Grace says:

 October 10, 2015 at 1:38 pm
 
Meredith,
Wouldn’t it be funny if we were in the same circuit. haha
JB,
Age means nothing to us, my best friend is 83 but she has the energy of a 40 year old at heart & we’re 50 but we’re really immature like 30 year olds.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
Grace, you guys sound like my kind of people, m’dear :)
Now, I want you and Meredith J to meet at the front doors of the Sydney Opera house on October 31, at 12:00 noon. Both of you wear a red hat. In case there is more than one beautiful lady there wearing a red hat, the secret phrase is: “Pardon me, do you have the time?” And if you’re the one asked this question, the answer is, “No, my watch broke about 20 years ago.” With that exchange, give each other a big hug, and enjoy being best friends for life!

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:55 pm
 
JB, you are so funny. It’s probably not that far fetched an idea. I live on the South Coast of NSW. Really, could have been in the same circuit who knows? Where are you? I mean you don’t have to give everything away. We are on the internet, so nothing too exact. Which state are you in?

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:56 pm
 
I meant Grace. I know JB doesn’t live in Australia.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:23 pm
 
Wow Meredith J, you really ARE pretty close. I’m a good guesser! (Ok, ok, maybe it’s because the Sydney Opera House is the only Australian landmark that the average American can name, lol.) To tell you the truth though, as I was writing the comment, I was thinking about how incredible it would be if you and Grace actually did do that and meet. (I’m still sort of hoping that you do.)
Where you at, Grace?

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:51 pm
 
Meredith J, Grace’s reply is wayyy down below on this page.

 
 
 
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 10, 2015 at 5:59 am
 
Ted, what a horrible story. That is the first one I have heard on the blood issue. How on earth can these elders sit in committee meetings with people in extreme distress, begging for their spiritual life, and disfellowship these little sheep? But I would bet my last dollar that the elders in my former congregation with the blessing of the outgoing CO would have the exact thing. I’m beginning to think they get a pathetic power rush watching people grovel.
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 9, 2015 at 6:06 am
 
When people are sure they have the truth either as administrators or R&F. It may be a more poisonous draft than the religion & politics coctail? Acts 17 v 11
 Apostate is a word for witch hunters.
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 9, 2015 at 7:58 am
 
Along that line, the new world translation loves to use the word, even using every chance they can it’s less then 20x in the scriptures, and almost half of those are in the book of job, where it really should be translated “ungodly” because really if apostasy is a standing off from an organization then what organization did job, bildad, zopar, ect…belong too, the brotherhood of Edomnite?
 In the few cases where the term is applied specifically to an individual, it’s always applied to a faithful person by wicked /misguided people as a weapon. .
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 8:20 am
 
Truly the real apostates are in Brooklyn/Warwick. They are the ones that trample on Gods word and correct his sayings to fit their publishing cult agenda. Keep praying for their unmasking. Jesus said that anything we ask with genuine faith would at the very least be listened to. I hope there are enough of us praying for the truth about the Borg the prevail. I believe God is still on his throne and he is still in control smiling as we awake from the chains of these judgemental hipocrites, back into the love found in his word. My new and last religion is my personal relationship with my creator, my personal prayer and study of his word. I gladly share his love with others and live according to Hesus teachings. Some get sidetracked and cannot see the forest, because the trees are in their way, focusing on ancient history in the Bible that occurred to people so distant from us both in time and culture that we try and judge how things went down through the snippets of information found in the Bible. Slavery, Rapeing, pillaging, sacrificing of innocent lives is all still happening amongst people who reject Christ to this very day. Just turn on the news and see what’s happening in the Middle East. We must stay focused on Christ, not focusing on him is the reason my family got into this Watchtower mess.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:33 pm
 
Robert,
I still have some small belief in God. Only because when I had my brain snap (it literally felt like one), I was having so much inner turmoil & I didn’t go to the memorial because I knew that the ritual was wrong to what the scriptures say & that everyone should be partaking if you stick to the Bibles version.
I have my doubts about the Bible now but I still believe that something came over me that night. It was the most peaceful feeling, what people describe as having God’s presence & this feeling that “everything will be alright, I am with you” came over me.
It could be put down to my brain finally saying to me; “It’s okay. You’ve jumped the first hurdle”. I don’t know… but it’s something that I will always remember as a major moment & it was at that moment that I was able to breathe again.
Reply
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 October 10, 2015 at 4:39 am
 
I experienced something similar. I was so frustrated that I began cursing in my prayer. After a few minutes, I dared not open my eyes, because what I felt felt holy. A calming presence that soothed me. After that, I started to fade from the congregation and I’ve never felt so happy. My family insist I return, but I tell them if I did, I would be as depressed and hateful as I was in my previous experience. And that is something I don’t wish to be. Hopefully, when the watchtower finally crumbles down, my family and friends from the congregation will realize why I left and we can be together again.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 10, 2015 at 1:29 pm
 
Hi Roman,
That was awesome that you had a similar experience, it’s good to know that someone understands the feelings that go with it. Something that you don’t forget.
I hope that you can be a great example to your family that life outside of the cult is happy & fulfilling & that being spirituality minded doesn’t have to be all consuming by dogma & pretentiousness.

 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 9, 2015 at 2:38 pm
 
Robert, I have no problem with people retaining their religious faith and discarding only the dangerous interpretations insisted upon by the heartless fools leading the Org. I suspect that the majority of people leaving the Org will land in that category. But when you mention those who no longer see any evidence of supernatural inspiration in the Bible as ‘not being able to see the forest for the trees’, it’s a little misleading.
When you present your super-simplified, Golden-Rule-centered, tunnel-vision-on-the-nice-things-Jesus-said interpretation of the whole Bible, there aren’t merely trees keeping us from seeing that—there’s a mountain of contradictory Scriptural evidence obscuring our view of it.
Throughout the pages of the Bible, we find acts of unimaginable brutality being authorized, ordered and many times carried out personally by God. Things that, if you asked yourself, “Would I have done that?”, you would reply to yourself, “Of course not! That would be unimaginably cruel!”. However, when the God you want to believe in is guilty of those things, you say, “Well, His ways are higher than my ways. Those things must be okay.”. I know, because I did that for 9/10 of my life.
But when you would personally judge an action as being heinous yourself, and then turn around and judge it as loving and righteous when someone else does it, well, that’s the same level of logical disconnect that got us all in trouble to begin with.
It goes without saying that this is an incomplete and extremely summarized version of my side of the Bible/God argument. Clearly though, we will both stick to our intransigent views on the matter. I’m not trying to start a debate here in a place that I know isn’t made for that. I just couldn’t let your lil’ poke at us non-believers slide by without a peep. I’m only human, lol.
Keep up the good work of trying to help as many people as you can get out of this life-sucking cult, mi Amigo (sincerely).
Grace, I started writing this comment before yours popped up, so please don’t take it as an answer to your heartfelt comment, m’dear. :)
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 October 9, 2015 at 3:20 pm
 
@JB Reezner, I have come to the same conclusion as you have about the Bible. I don’t for one minute believe it was written by a perfect God and I will give a for instance at Leviticus 21:1-3 where it reads “And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “Talk to the priests, Aaron’s sons and you must say to them, ‘For a deceased soul no one may defile himself among his people. But for a blood relation of his who is close to him, for his mother and for his father and for his son and for his daughter and for his brother and for his sister, a virgin who is close to him who has not become a man’s for her he may defile himself.”
Going over to Leviticus 21:9 it reads: “Now in case the daughter of a priest should make herself profane by committing prostitution, it is her father that she is profaning. She should be burned in the fire.”
I don’t believe the Bible was inspired of a God but if it was inspired by a God, I would not worship the kind of God who endorses a man being able to “profane” his own virgin sister and also burning his sister in a fire if she prostituted herself. The Bible is full of stuff like that. If we were to dismiss the Hebrew Scriptures, then the Greek Scriptures are meaningless.
When Jephthah said he’d offer up the first person who came out of his house as a burnt sacrifice to God, that is what he did. Acts 7:42,43, Stephen said it was to Moloch and the star of the god Rephan that they worshipped in the wilderness for forty years. Stephen said it wasn’t to his God that the Israelites were rendering up burnt sacrifices all those forty years. So then who was it that gave the law to the Israelites if it wasn’t Stephen’s God???? It seems to have been Moloch and Rephan. Why would anybody even listen to any of the Mosaic law if it was given to the Israelites from Moloch and Rephan and angels?? That explains why that law sanctioned slavery and the selling of their children into slavery and the slaughter of millions of innocent people who just happened to live in the land that the Israelites seemed to have been promised to by their god.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:01 pm
 
Anonymous,
That’s how I felt for years about Lot offering his daughters to be gang raped by the township to spare the men (angels) that sat in his house.

 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:23 pm
 
Grace, I can’t think of even one place in the Hebrew scriptures where women were treated with the same respect as men were. As a matter of fact, it seems that women were treated as nothing but property of men and that account of Lot’s daughters always bothered me too, no matter what kind of spin the Society put on it.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 9, 2015 at 7:31 pm
 
Grace, I would submit to you that you should still be utterly repulsed by Lot’s actions in that story. There does not exist an acceptable excuse for something so unloving and disgusting. I don’t remember what trick I used on my own brain to be able to accept that part of the story, but it never did sit well with me. And let’s go ahead and add to it that Lot’s wife was killed a little while later for turning her damn head around. [Of course, I no longer believe these were actual events, but nevertheless, whoever wrote these stories had some fairly serious misogyny issues, and issues of cruelty in general.]
Anonymous, those are extremely interesting points. There are enough bizarre and vulgar entries in the Mosaic Law so that that alone could provide enough evidence against the notion of a loving God being behind it. As for the people who contend that Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and brought about the end of it, why would they feel like that’s a license to dismiss the importance of the fact that such a law with many sickening and cruel directives existed?
I had a friend tell me “That was another time.” Well, if a day for God is 1,000 years, then it was less than a week ago. What made him go from being such a brutal, misogynistic, genocidal megalomaniac, to a warm and fuzzy teddy bear–that I should be full of adoration for–in less than a week? (Except, yes, I realize that at Armageddon my guts will be strewn from one end of town to the other, so he won’t be very warm and fuzzy then.)
For me it starts at the very beginning, with Adam and Eve. Why create two children who you love very deeply and then set them up with a test that will bring about their DEATH and the miserable suffering and deaths of billions after them if they become guilty of one simple act of disobedience, like eating a fruit from a tree (when simple acts of disobedience are things that humans are nearly inevitably going to do)? Why such a HARSH punishment?
Why not have a provision that allows them at least the possibility of proving they are repentant and undeserving of eternal DEATH… for eating a fruit?
Why not step in and defend Eve when she’s being psychologically attacked by a multibillion-year-old evil genius who, with no effort at all, could easily sway the mind of a naïve, brand-new human being?
Why allow Satan to REMAIN part of the equation on Earth, tormenting people, and exercising–especially in our day–more supernatural power against us than God himself is willing to use against him?
Why did Adam eating a fruit cause demons to get permission from God to come down and take women for themselves?
Why kill the ENTIRE human family, including little children? …But even if you want to, why do it in such a horribly terrifying way?
What did a 4 year old little girl do to deserve seeing her parents screaming in terror as the water level slowly creeps up, and then hear them struggling and gurgling right before her father’s arms fall, dropping her into the rising waters where she also drowns, ending her screams and her state of absolute panic with a few involuntary gasps that fill her lungs?
To think that I used to accept that these were the actions of a God who “personified love”…
Anyway, that only gets us through Genesis chapter 7, but this comment is already too long.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
These comment columns are lining up in an interesting way. Let me do something a little devilish…
Jwpow, since the beginning of time, the appropriate conclusion for mankind is atheism, yes?

 
 
 
 
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 9, 2015 at 10:03 am
 
Yes it is..both then and now
Reply
 
 Jwpow says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
Since my answer was a day ahead of the question I must be a prophet. !!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 6:38 pm
 
Hahaa! Jwpow, you caught me. Thanks for being a good sport. I was a being bit naughty, lol.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 6:42 pm
 
Annnnd, apparently I’ve lost my grip on the English language. “I–was–being–a–bit–naughty.” There, I think I got it right that time, lol.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Abel Alvarez says:

 October 9, 2015 at 9:35 am
 
I am still a JW but I know Now after so many years who really they are! Like most of you, I have all my family in the JW cult, no one knows what I am feeling or what I am thinking about the Jw. No, no event my wife, my son, my whole family. If they found out you guys know the consequences. It is very hard and sad that you can not do anything for them. I’m very happy for this website and you all
 Feel free to comment good or bad.
 P.s. you know the most important and powerful thing in the world and universities is
“LOVE” with out it nothing excit. And you all have that love in your face.
 May Jehovah and Jesus Christ blessed you all.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 10:06 am
 
@ Abel Alvarez. Many of us are also still in the truth held hostage at the moment waiting for the right moment to free our families. We also understand that if we just quit, we lose that vital tool which is communication with these still indoctrinated loved ones. As we wait keep studying the truth about their truth on sites like this one http://www.jwfacts.com or http://www.extj.com in Spanish. This way you’ll be ready to give a defence of your faith to any who require it. John 8:32 Welcome to the freedom that only comes from the truth.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 10:42 am
 
Make some time today to watch this video from JWcrisis



Reply
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 10, 2015 at 6:25 am
 
Great video!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 9, 2015 at 12:44 pm
 
@Abel Alvarez- I feel you pain, believe me. I too am still an “active” witness, even still holding on to my MS position. Most of my family are witnesses. My father is really brainwashed, almost militant like in defending this cult so you can only imagine how I have to be super careful. My awakening took place about two years ago, and I have never felt better! I continue to report time, but I never go out in service (except when the CO is around). Fake hours. Fake return visits. Fake placements. All fake. Just like this cult’s leaders and their “spirit guided food.” The best thing was finding out that I am not alone! I went through the EXTREME shock of finding out that my religion that I came to LOVE and BELIEVE my whole life was nothing but a lie. And worse still, that the men who ran it, were nothing but liars!
So, I made my decision to HELP as many as I could to discover THE TRUTH about “the truth!” But I could only do that if I remained “active” so that my friends and family would still listen to me. So I consider myself a “double agent” working to uncover the lies that this cult is trying to hide! All I want is the TRUTH to be made known to everyone! Which reminds me of what Jesus said at Luke 12:2 when he said, “There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.” :) :) :) :) :) :)
That applies to this cult as well.
It’s too time consuming to write you everything about myself, but read my posts! I’m quite new to this site (posting only about a week, reading anonymously for several months) so you don’t need to look back more than this post and the one about Warwick.
But this is where you come in, Abel. Use your position (“active publisher”) to help others while being free of this cults laws and false doctrines! Be a double agent like myself! It is quite fun and exciting at times. There are MANY things you can do! For example send everyone you know anonymous emails and texts about the 607 BCE lie. Provide them with the research but do it nicely. Believe me, when they start to research 607 and find out that it is COMPLETELY WRONG they start to find out other things! I usually start with a simple question and provide research. Only the completely IGNORANT DIEHARD FOOLS will continue to believe in 607 because they know that 607 is KEY to the entire “faithful slave” lie! No 607 = no 1914. No 1914 = no 1918 = no “slave” = no JW CULT!
Anyways, I posted this a few days ago but I heard the hacker group “Anonymous” is on the WT’s ass now and you know when Anon is your ass, you did something not too nice! (Yeah, like covering up the child abuse scandals, lying about dumping toxic waste and covering it up for the sake of “Jehovah’s holy name and organization,” changing doctrines on a yearly basis because you’re a bunch of false prophets who can’t get it right so you call it “NEW LIGHT!” WTF?????????!!!!!!!!!!!
It makes me so mad thinking about it! Remember, the WT uses “theocratic warfare” to fight for their existence, I think it is only right that we use a little of their own medicine to expose their lies! EVERY HUMAN has the right to know the truth. ENOUGH WITH THE LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS. Make a bucket list of all the things you always wanted to do but were forbidden to do because of this cult! Go see a rated R movie! Smoke a cigar! Have fun with the girls 😉 and play paintball and grow a beard, and WEAR TIGHT PANTS! WEAR THE TIGHTEST PANTS YOU CAN FIND! LOL DO WANT YOU WANT!
Don’t let this fear hold you back. The whole cult is based on FEAR.
It is exhilarating to be free! Free your mind and your soul of the evil chains!
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 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:28 pm
 
@Abel .. You are WELCOME Here on this Site where there is PLENTY of REAL LOVE!! UNLIKE Watchtower Make Believe Land where LOVE is CONDITIONAL( PBCLI- JB Knows what this means!!
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 ruthlee says:

 October 10, 2015 at 10:03 am
 
Sweetie some of us in thre same boat and keeping each other afloat ruthlee.
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 Pow says:

 October 9, 2015 at 10:55 am
 
Slightly off topic, did anyone catch the news item from N.Z. I believe, that the deaf community felt they were being targeted by the witnesses with sign language trained publishers. No surprise there, however the branch DENIED they knew anything about and chalked it up to coincident.
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 Pow says:

 October 9, 2015 at 12:04 pm
 
A little more on this subject. ..I could see a response like “we didn’t mean to offend but we were reaching out to the deaf community ” but to absolutely deny that there’s any substance to the report.?..and the spokesman for the branch, is that the same Spinks form the A.RC.?
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 Grace says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:38 pm
 
God they’re liars.
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 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 8:10 pm
 
Wonder if this is relatedhttp://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-translator-found-dead-in-watchtower-facility-in-florida
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 anonymous says:

 October 9, 2015 at 11:12 am
 
Narcissists hate anybody they can’t control and who can think for themselves and with that hate, they will set out to ruin them in the eyes of their families and friends. The narcissist has an insatiable appetite for control and adulation and the person who is not tricked by the con artist narcissist, is an obstacle that stands in the way of the narcissist’s con.
As long as a person with low self-esteem is willing to give the narcissist the adulation and attention that they crave, the narcissist will maintain a pretend relationship with the person with low self-esteem, that is, if the narcissist stands to gain in some way by maintaining a relationship with that person. It is much the same as a farmer using a tractor. The narcissist only uses people for their gain and will pretend to “love” that person as long as that person gives the narcissist what the narcissist wants, either attention and adulation or money.
If the thinking person does not give the narcissist what the narcissist wants, then the narcissist will target that person with utter rage. If you are fortunate, then the narcissist will just abandon the person who is unwilling to play the narcissist’s game.
In the JW religion, the narcissist is the “slave”. They all have God delusions and it was reflected in Geoffrey Jackson’s comment at the Australian Commission on child sex abuse when he said that he would have to ask Jesus when he gets to heaven. That comment told the whole world that he considers himself already judged by God and having passed the test while all the rest of us little people “hope” we pass the test at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ, that is “if” we make it through Armageddon.
The Governing Body requires worship and adulation and those who think for themselves and who are unwilling to worship the “slave” will be the target of the narcissistic “slave”, i.e. the Governing Body and will be disfellowshipped for apostasy or the subject of a marking talk. Either way, the person will be punished by the Governing Body.
They will be made to pay the price for their defection for the worship of the Governing body by the Society’s minions, the elders. The congregation will follow the orders of the elders and shun anybody who has the courage to stand up against the Governing Body and the Governing Body will delight in punishing that person.
At the end of every jwbroadcasting, the Governing Body member says how much they “love” all of us. That “love” is based on how much use they can get out of us. We “love” our car if our car is in working condition but if that car no longer serves a purpose, we will dump it and get another one. We are like a car to the Society and once they don’t get any use out of us anymore, they will dump us and get a new lover who will idolize them, like what they crave.
The “love” that the Governing Body feels towards the rank and file is the sensation that megalomaniacs feel, knowing the power they hold over the rank and file. They “love” the feeling of power that they have over our emotions, our thoughts, our behavior and all aspects of our lives.
If we have the courage to break free from their control, we can expect from the narcissistic “slave” a full-out attack on our morality, character and integrity. They will make our name mud in any way that they can to destroy us. That is what a malignant narcissist does when they can’t get their own way but we will be the one that will be accused of leaving such a “loving” religion and we will be accused of being selfish and petty. They are like the three year child in the store who throws himself on the floor and screams and hollers when they can’t get the toy that they want.
A “relationship” with the Society is a one-way relationship with all the take on the side of the Organization and all the give from the rank and file.
If we have the idea that we were created as individuals with unique personalities, we will be the target to be humiliated, shamed and even targeted for destruction. The narcissistic “slave” has no use for people who can think for themselves and they will do whatever it takes to ruin that person.
What makes the narcissist miserable is when we break free from their control and are happy. They can’t stand that.
It is almost impossible for a normal person to comprehend how people can be that evil but once we have been the subject of their rage and attacked for not idolizing them, we come to the realization that people like that do not deserve any respect and do not deserve the benefit of a doubt.
They are not in touch with reality and live in ivory towers and have no idea what it like being a regular person in the real world. They are evil individuals. Anybody who takes pleasure in hurting people is evil. They don’t disfellowship people because they want to “save” them. They disfellowship because they hate them for standing up to them.
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 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 11:55 am
 
Absofreakinglutely, the organization condemned the Catholic Church for the mild shunning they do up into the 1950’s when the number of friends with functioning neurons became more than they could handle. The only way to keep these spiritual men and woman from spreading the truths they were learning about the Borg was to fabricate a family and reputation anhialating form of shunning. Where the marked person was to be removed from the congregation and never spoken to again, even by their own family. Truly this anti-God organization keeps disguising itself as an angel of light, but the physical proof and overwhelming testimony from legitimate witnesses of God on these matters condemns them as the true apostates of the faith.
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 Actigall Ur says:

 October 9, 2015 at 12:59 pm
 
@Robert- As you already know, I no longer believe in any supernatural beings. That said, I know Jesus’ message. The more I examine my cult, the more I can see that they are anti-Christ! Nearly all of the big TRUTHS that Jesus was speaking about like, LOVE, not allowing MEN to make rules over you, to understand that there are just TWO COMMANDS that he gave – LOVE GOD and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. THAT IS ALL.
Where is the LOVE in shunning? I know they always say, “oh but shunning is LOVE because it is Jehovah’s way of keeping the flock clean and making the DF’d person come back to him…” blah blah blah.
My sister attempted suicide after her UNJUST Df’ing because WE (my family and I myself) all shunned her. It was so evil I can not imagine. It is a long story which I do want to rehash any more. I’m already shaking just thinking about what it did to my family and tearing the whole family up. In the end, she found happiness despite her shunning. One of the happiest days of her life and MY life was after my own awakening when I set out to visit her for the first time in years. And then finding out that she FULLY forgave me and we cried for hours. We missed so much time as a family because of this cult. I swear to ^whatever guy is up there flying around^ I will make them pay for what they have done to my family and the hundreds of thousands of others. The pain and suffering so many have gone through… no way, would Jesus approve of this cult’s lies. Complete opposite of LOVE. Always so preachy preachy about “oh we have LOVE we have so much brotherly LOVE love love LOVE LOVE love love LOVE!”
But the truth is this is a cult of fear, depression, lies, domination, RULES OF MEN, brainwashing and even death.
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 Robert67 says:

 October 9, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
Actigall Ur- I too came to shun loved ones out of blind faith( the kind God rejects) and also have concrete faith, that as you expressed;whomever is in charge up there will act on these matters.
 As far as these elders James 3 comes to mind and helped this former elder come out of the Watchtower Matrix turning his position as elder aka judge,jury and executioner.
“Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom (not from the bible, but books about the bible hot off the press). But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition (every elder)in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.” (Not the elders)
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 Grace says:

 October 9, 2015 at 4:52 pm
 
ActigallUr,
I can’t blame you one bit for feeling the way that you do. I would be feeling the same way too. You are a braver person than me to be able to hold the double agent position that you do. I personally couldn’t do it because I just wanted to run & get out but I don’t have family still in.

 
 
 
 
 
 David says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:43 pm
 
Geoffrey Jackson’s comment at the Australian Commission when he said that he would have to ask Jesus when he gets to heaven is totally ridiculous.
They have produced the most bizarre interpretations (pyramidology, beth sarim, Pleiades, false dates) for more than a century without thinking how stupid Jesus would look and when it comes to children protection they cannot allow any common sense over extremely literal interpretation of certain Bible verses.
 I feel ashamed that I was part of this toxic religion. They want the best of your existence and when you cannot agree with them the turn friends and family against you.
 Matthew 21: 31 the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
 I believe these words are true, it is very scary how inhumane the actions of self righteous people can be. For sure apostates are more Christains and would never shun any human being. Shame on you!
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 Pickled brain says:

 October 10, 2015 at 3:26 am
 
@David . You Make SO MANY GOOD POINTS in your Comments & Yes I Expect we All Feel a Bit Stupid how we ALL FELL for the CLAPTRAP of the GB before Researching it Properly like the PYRAMIDOLOGY ,PLEIADES ,FALSE DATES, Etc
 Would Jesus Reveal ALL THIS RUBBISH through his Supposed F&D Slave ?? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
 I Enjoy your Comments & you SHOW GREAT INSIGHT!!!
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 ruthlee says:

 October 10, 2015 at 10:20 am
 
Hi Anon, strong stuff but you are so right in your conclusions. As i said earlier , iwould break this cult with generosity and make them pay everyone who had a claim against them until every last penny was spent. They would hate that the most because they have dollar signs in their eyes not one beam of Kingdom light.I think they would truly gnash their teeth if they had to part with their ill gotten gains but that is my wish. Thanks for your post Ilike it when friends can speak the strong stuff because it has to be said. Best wishes ruthlee
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 Innocent Son says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:11 pm
 
It’s 30 years since I first went into a K Hall snd got the ‘ Truth ‘ Wow how times have changed! I never ever thought that I would see K Halls demolished and the land sold off. Magazines being reduced to bi-monthly and bored staid witnesses in Town centres by their carts, boy is this religion in trouble! Not to mention all the pending Court Cases they have stacking Up! ‘Get out of her my people ‘ that’s what I advise. Do not share in her sins! Come to us on this site. Share your burdens, you are not alone! If I can break free anyone can! Much love to all on this site, Innocent Son.
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 Pickled brain says:

 October 9, 2015 at 1:47 pm
 
@Innocent Son . NICE COMMENT !! & yes never would have believed such DRAMATIC CHANGES in WATCHTOWER LAND in such a short period of time!
… THERE is a GOD After All !!! …. What More Proof do we Need???
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 David says:

 October 9, 2015 at 5:58 pm
 
You are right. When I see the carts I do not know wether to cry or laugh. So you see for one week magazines with pictures of an atomic mushroom cloud to warn how close Armageddon is. The following week there are magazine about the DNA. To me this is not normal, is crazy! If they really believed that Armageddon is so close they should warn with megaphones every week. Armageddon is the trick that allowed them to build a real estate empire ignoring Jesus world to help the poor.
Same thing applies to the name of God. If they think the name is so sacred why the reduce Jehovah to a J in a commercial styled logo. The J appears in JW dating sites for example. Is this respect for the name Jehovah? You have Mc Donalds, BP and JW.org. God reduced to a commercialised product.
Obviously the normal witnesses do not realise these flaws until is written in a magazine. This is the robot you become when following men.
I hope that people become more rational and do proper research before giving up their freedom for a doomsday denomination.
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 Meredith J says:

 October 9, 2015 at 9:35 pm
 
Innocent Son, when asked by the presiding overseer why I had stopped attending meetings, I politely said exactly what you quoted
“Get out of her my people, unless you want to share with her in her sins”. The elder said to me, “So you feel that the Witnesses are part of Babylon the Great?” and I simply said “Yes, I do.” Thank goodness he left it at that. He just let us fade out. He did not have anything to say to counteract it. Innocent Son, things still haven’t changed. In fact they are much worse now from what I have been reading on this site. I endorse this thought completely because it is correct.
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 Innocent Son says:

 October 10, 2015 at 2:10 am
 
Thank you for your kind words, Pickled Brain, Meredith J, Dave. I wish my brother was still around, He was an Elder for many, many years, got the ‘ truth ‘ in the 60’s He started to have doubts 15 years ago and did extensive research… Course the Borg. Didn’t know and tried to get him back, he faded gradually. He would of loved this site and made many valuable contributions. Unfortunately he passed away last year after a short illness. When I think of all the time we spent pioneering, going to meetings e.t.c. It completely dominated our lives. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!
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 Pickled brain says:

 October 10, 2015 at 3:20 am
 
@Innocent Son . Thank you for acknowledging my comment & yes you are SO RIGHT … MANY WASTED LIVES … But SO MANY are SEEING through the Watchtower Curtain & the CORRUPT INNER WORKINGS of the GB!!
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 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:35 am
 
Sorry about your dear brother. Sounds like you came in around about the time we did. The time wasted not enjoying life with real family is very sad. Unfortunately, we cannot turn back the clock of time. We can just hope in the resurrection. He was a good person and will be remembered for it. I’m not trying to sound preachy but I have always believed in this hope and still do. The failed Watchtower can never take that hope away from you because it is written about in the Bible.
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 Innocent Son says:

 October 10, 2015 at 2:22 am
 
I used to think that I would be struck down by lightening, just for being on this site! I will say it again ” Get out of her my people! if you do not want to share in her sins ” The Borg is collapsing and the Collective are in disarray. Squirm some more G B Your very existence is terminal. No Heavenly rewards for you! Just public humiliation.
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 GEM says:

 October 10, 2015 at 4:27 am
 
“For it is time to begin judgment with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not believe the gospel of God?” 1 Peter 4:17 NIV
Just a thought… if the definition of Apostate applies to one who has rejected the Blood of Jesus as the Son of God, who has redeemed us… how many here are in fact, truly Apostate by strict definition?
Exciting and interesting times ahead. Will we see a Reformation before our eyes or just a collapse of WT structure as it takes the title of a suburb of Babylon the Great (has my vote)
Mmmmmm
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 Excelsior! says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:31 am
 
GEM,
I have not rejected the blood of Jesus as the Son of God.
St. Thomas was allowed to see and feel your Lord’s wounds, was he not?
I demand the same proof! If St. Thomas was given INCONTROVERTABLE proof then we should be given the same opportunity, should we not?
I am confident that, if you are right, then the Lord will provide us all with the PROOF we need.
So, am I an Apostate, Gem?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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 anonymous says:

 October 11, 2015 at 7:16 am
 
Gem, I think the thing that we are concerned about is not whether or not we are any form of an “apostate” or not but why we should be shunned for not believing Watchtower doctrines or not.
You can watch debates with apostates and God believers from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed and most people will either still believe in God or they won’t. You can’t convince anybody who is already convinced.
It usually depends on their own experience that they have experienced. If they feel they have felt the hand of God, they will always feel that God exists and they will always want that good feeling for anybody who doesn’t believe in God. It all depends on their own experience and nobody else is able to experience that person’s experience. So, it’s a losing battle one way or the other when it comes to trying to convince somebody who has never had that experience because they haven’t lived in that person’s body and vice versa.
For many years, I was absolutely convinced that God answers our prayers as long as it was in accordance to his will because I was convinced that He answered my prayers. But if you think about it, why would God answer my prayers when there are literally millions of children dying every year and why would he be answering my prayers and letting all those little children die? It is selfish and arrogant to think like that.
When good things happen to us, bad things happen to people who have done nothing wrong and a lot of those people are believers in God and praying to Him, whether it’s the Watchtower God or any other God. When good things happen to them, they ascribe it to God answering their prayer and when bad things happen, they ascribe it to Satan.
There is no proof one way or the other that God answers anybody’s prayers because those experiences are unique to that particular person. That would be the one proof that God exists. If God doesn’t answer prayers, then either he doesn’t exist or if he does exist, he doesn’t care or is impotent. It can’t be explained away as he’s “testing” us. That is just an excuse. The Watchtower has an answer for any reason a person can come up with as to whether or not your prayers are answered by God.
I know when I was reading the Bible every day and really believing it was from God, I also had that sensation that there was a God. I think it was because I had the feeling when I read it that it was truly inspired or God breathed but since, I have found out that there are no original manuscripts and all we have are copies of copies and there is not even one Bible being printed today that is truly “inspired” of God. So, if you read it and read it with critical eyes, instead of reading it with rose colored glasses, you don’t have that feeling anymore when you read it. When you read it critically, you see lots of things in it that don’t make any sense at all and if it was from a perfect God, it would make sense all the way through. That is where I am at.
I don’t say there isn’t a God. I just know that and and all Bibles that we have today are not inspired of a perfect God and are full of inconsistencies.
I find the God of the Hebrew Scriptures (Jehovah) to be a horrible God. That is not a God that I could ever respect or love or want to worship. Jesus, on the other hand, seems like a good person but the Greek scriptures depend 100% on whether or not the Hebrew Scriptures were from God. That is where I am at.
The point that I think is important is that we are not interested in being believers in God or not. Our point is that we should not be shunned if we lose our faith in the Bible and the Watchtower or not. That is the important thing to me. I don’t believe anybody should be trying to convince us to be believers. I think they mean well but if people don’t come on here, trying to convince us to be believers, we wouldn’t come back with why we don’t believe.
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 Actigall Ur says:

 October 10, 2015 at 5:45 am
 
I don’t want to beat a dead horse but this video is powerful. I’ve watched it twice just to see if I missed anything. One of the best videos of its kind. I’m sure there are probably THOUSANDS more like these brave people that would love to come out of their coffin but are still afraid.
I’m just curious, how many here would like to take a more active role in helping spread THE TRUTH about “the truth?”
I see lots of good comments here. Anyone is welcome to respond to my inquiry- DF’d, DA’d, faders, whatever. The only caveat you must have a strong desire to HELP THESE LOST SOULS BREAK FREE OF THE LIES, then you are welcome to email me- which is my name here on this site, no spaces or dots, all one word at activist.com.
I’ve got already a dozen+ anonymous volunteers helping to spread the TRUTH around the US and Europe. I’m hoping to add a few in South America and Canada. Anywhere really. Plus I’ve got some great tips and secret info if you want it! Let us just say that Pandora’s box has been opened. The lies can no longer be hidden!
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 Ted says:

 October 10, 2015 at 6:16 am
 
With respect to all Bible believers, if you’ve been able to get
 past what some of us see as absurdities. Not to mention the
 atrocities, ordered by Yahweh, then I commend your insight,
 although I’m completely baffled by it.
If God knows the end from the beginning, and everything
 In-between ISA,46:10. That means that Adam & Eve were
 set up, they were just a couple of patsies.–
Sin was inevitable, and all its consequences. Not just death
 but dying in agonising ways, such as from cancer, from hunger,
 or murder etc. Sinful humans would produce psychopaths
 like Stalin and Hitler who slaughtered millions in agonising
 ways. And the list goes on without end.
And the pointless point of all this? So Yahweh could
 redeem us from what he had caused in the first place, and
 what we were unavoidably born into. Meriting our eternal
 gratitude and praise. His means of accomplishing this?–
By having his son cruelly murdered, an act fore-ordained
 from the founding of the world. REV, 13:8.
The saying goes, “It takes all sorts to make a world”. I don’t
 oppose your right to believe, and I hope you don’t object to
 my right, not to believe, Best Wishes, Ted.
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 Actigall Ur says:

 October 10, 2015 at 7:24 am
 
@Ted- Exactly! I won’t even bother getting into the philosophical aspect of you and I needing a redeemer or, a “sinless Adam” to pay a ransom and then wait another 2000+ years after the ransom was paid all for NOTHING! Unless of course God is evil and loves to see his creation suffer. I mean, the world population grows by 250,000+ PER DAY yet our “growth” is down to 217 and falling. So you do the math. Let’s take a nice round 250,000 people born everyday minus the 217 “saved.” That means each day that the end does not come, according to my scientific calculator and using complex math equations, I arrived that 249,783 EXTRA PEOPLE MUST DIE AT ARMAGEDDON….
Yeah, that makes lots of sense! LOL Unless Jehovah’s real name is “Sadomasochist!”
Anyways, as I said, I am a man of logic and reasoning so here is some logic and reasoning. So the BIBLE teaches that ALL SOULS that SIN MUST DIE (Ezekiel 18:4). At the same time, my cult teaches that WE HUMANS and ALL ANIMALS ARE LIVING SOULS. Got that? So at what point did animals “sin” that they must die and suffer the SAME EXACT FATE AS US?
For example, my dog. He was a good dog. A loving and loyal dog. I don’t think he ever committed a sin in his unnaturally short life. How could he? Can he read the bible to know that he can’t go around screwing every hot dame he sees? LOL Yet, he died a slow and painful death from cancer until we finally had to have him euthanized.
Did he deserve this death?
My grandfather died a similar death- slow and very painful. He fought hard to survive and lived much longer than anyone had expected, including the doctors. I remember us praying that he would go quickly in death just so he would not have to suffer any more. As the Patriarch of the family, he was key to the entire family being JW’s. He was an elder and full time pioneer for 30+ years.
Did he deserve this death?
I already am thinking of the ten other excuses I was taught to rebuttal this question, but as a man of reason, the most logical conclusion is- WE are animals and we die like animals. Sure, we have this incredible state of self-awareness that animals do not posses… or do they? Who cares? What matters is the JW cult is filled with LIES!
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 Robert67 says:

 October 10, 2015 at 9:24 am
 
Abigail Ur- ill high five you on that last part, the rest we will just have to agree to disagree.
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 Robert67 says:

 October 10, 2015 at 8:53 am
 
@Ted I believe you just governing bodied the heck out of those text or we’ll just say you GB’d them. That is what the governing body does, pick out selective text and obliterate their context. One would definitely agree that the designer, creator and giver of life can know what the reaction to any action will be and given the fact that he can read all hearts and the inclination of every man, well, he definitely has a one up. That does not mean that everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen is all written somewhere. From its very beginning to its end Gods word the bible tells us the history of humanity and the human condition. It is a book that revolves around choices, choices made by men and God reacting with the foresight of the aforementioned attributes, in whatever way he sees best for the bigger picture. John 3:16 sums it up. Either you CHOOSE to have faith or you don’t and once in a while there are individuals who God sprinkles a little extra blessing on in order to counter a move by his invisible enemies. I believe Lloyd to be one of those people, moved into action not just thoughts of action in order to spread the truth about the WT truth. Wether he believes or not anymore is irrelevant God is using this man for a great work of freedom, not unlike many we read about. You have to stop focusing on the barbarian times of the Bible, barbarism , which affected the entire planet not just a small Caananite tribe. As students of the Bible not JW’s we know better. Our study of biblical context doesn’t stop at Revelation 22 and were done. As far as being damned for sins we are commiting while God himself allowed us to be formed with sin, your spot on and their begins the evil message of the governing body and its shunning policies not of God himself who’s will is that all mankind come to know him (our shared story) and be saved. No one is saved by peddling magazines, but faith in that God is going to keep his word. (1 Timothy 2:3,4) The God of the Bible has adjusted accordinglye to the evolution of mankind culminating in the atonement of all our sins, we cannot out sin Gods love. We are even free to reject it if we so choose. Remember James exortation in 1:13-16 to his Jewish church brothers who were beginning to fall into the hands of that eras version of the WT “12 Happy is the man who keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving Him. 13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death. 16 Do not be misled, my beloved brothers.”
It’s each one reach one and keep your eyes on the prize. There are tens of thousands of different flavors of Christianity of which the WT is a small and insignificant part in the greater scheme of things. I implore all here to reinforce their Bible knowledge I know the WT just beats John 17:3 into us, but they consider reading their hot if the presses publications to be the fulfillment of Christ request. Jesus closed all of scripture after checking defective churchs at the beginning of that book by ordering all NOT to add their Brooklyn based or any other kind of human inspired brainfart to scripture and not to hide anything in it. We here know for a fact that the GB stick to a fixed set of passages and regularly twist scriptures context to fit their printing and real estate empires agenda. Please don’t do the same.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 9:15 am
 
“You have to stop focusing on the barbarian times of the Bible”
That statement is a thing of beauty, Robert. It perfectly exemplifies the thing that happens in our mind when we WANT to believe something other than what our mind is telling us is true. And yes, you are correct that, if someone wants to believe that the God of the Bible is the personification of LOVE, then he/she will necessarily HAVE TO ignore the parts of the Bible that feature the unconscionable acts of barbarism perpetrated by God himself.
On a positive note though, Lloyd will be delighted to know that God is up there sprinkling on him. :)
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 10, 2015 at 9:20 am
 
Bwahahahaha ಠ_ಠ what have I done.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 10:29 am
 
Lol, this is an Amnesty day for the non-believers, Robert. You just have to go along with it!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 10, 2015 at 8:21 am
 
Too bad you didn’t have 607 more apostates, then there would have been 666 APOSTATES! (that is if you take the penalty of time, times and half a time for ‘failure to inspect’ and then add 1/2 of a person using the ‘hour per person’ rule as set out in Rev. 8:1,2 when there was 1/2 hour of silence in heaven, applied as a credit for the ‘be quiet, listen, obey and be blessed rule’.) Please check my math, my ‘bum may be overlapping my brain?’ I’m still a bit confused by last weeks Bible reading of 1 Ch 1:1-4:43, which appears to describe an approx. 3000 year ‘overlapping generation’.
Reply
 
 EW says:

 October 10, 2015 at 3:05 pm
 
@RetiredLE
 I absolutely love this! This perfectly highlights the type of absurd, hilarious, nonsensical garbage we have been brainwashed to believe is “the truth” just because the GB said it.
Reply
 
 
 EW says:

 October 10, 2015 at 4:21 pm
 
@RetiredLE
 Watchtower flapdoodle & drivel = “THE TRUTH”!
LOL!
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 10, 2015 at 5:42 pm
 
EW, too, right. The main reason for my ‘retirement’ = book study conductor – for Daniel Book, followed by Revelation Book (3rd time), Jeremiah, Isaiah I, Revelation Book Rev. (4th time) , Isaiah II….cough, choke…dwindled to sometimes two attendees from 30 – “book study” bites the dust… too bad the GB killed it that way. Remember when we actually had a book about Jesus and were able to make more than 30 second comments and didn’t know any of the GB members names? But never mind the man behind the curtain, don’t you know, there is no ‘evil slave’? That’s a big…”if”….not US beating you…
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:44 am
 
That Daniel book was the biggest load of rubbish I ever read. I knew they were going down when they produced that. It was utter drivel.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 5:03 am
 
@Meredith J . … I think ‘The FINISHED MYSTERY was the Book with the MOST DRIVEL in it !!

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:03 pm
 
You know I used to look at that book in the library and stare at all the pictures. I actually never read it. There was so much writing and it was very small. No wonder we were not encouraged to look too carefully at those old books. Written by looneys.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 10, 2015 at 11:19 am
 
Seeing as the gb view this site and i havent got a hope in hell’s chance of them replying to anything i write them. Just a little word to YOU ALL. Hope you like us because we are all making our points and the tower is crumbling fast now. It is not a sad thing but a liberation of sheep who have been fleeced .Mainly our precious life but hey ho we don’t mind because we are moving on and growing stronger no thanks to any enlightenment on your part so please don’ take the credit when you see Jesus ok is that plain. Note also we quite like the name apostate because we can misapply just as much as you can , in fact anything you can do we can do better “No you can’t.Yes we can ,yes we can, yes we can…..”Tara , PB, Meredith (on chorus) all the rest of us the choir invisible ,JB reez on guitar….. RUTHLESS/ruthlee
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 11:42 am
 
Damn straight, Ruthless! I love it…
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 1:49 am
 
@Ruth Lee .. Did you say PB on Chorus?? … Oh COME ON … I WON’T ACCEPT anything less than LEAD SINGER???…. Then Maybe NOT .., if I Sing Like I TYPE … Hmmmm
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:32 am
 
okee dokee
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:54 am
 
Ha ha ha. Go for it Ruthlee. It is wonderful to be able to speak freely about all this now. My dirty secret is out and finished with. We all have different ideas and hopefully we’ll all get over our once complicated and stressful lives in the ‘truth’. Our ideas will probably cover the gammit as we are all different.
I believe the Bible. I just dispel the Old Testamont because Jesus said he was introducing a law of love. But others get hung up on it. I already worked all that stuff out before I actually got baptised, even though the Watchtower harped on that stuff. That’s just what I think. Each to his own.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:29 am
 
love it
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 10, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
Robert67
 Your a man of faith and if it makes you happy, then I’m happy
 for you. Best wishes to you Bro,
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:23 am
 
Ted, you are loved anyway. We know you are kind.
Reply
 
 
 
 GEM says:

 October 10, 2015 at 11:48 am
 
@ Ted: Thanks for laying your own cards on the table. Anyone else feel that can have a stab at my enquiry?
At least Ted you have the honesty and courage to admit you are “Dyed in the wool”..true, blue Apostate as the BIBLE defines it. Not the trumped up WT version.
Bravo
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 12:59 pm
 
Well GEM, if I’ve been too vague about my feelings on the matter, I’ll try to do better next time, lol.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 10, 2015 at 1:45 pm
 
@GEM for the record I do not now or will ever refer to myself as an apostate. Apostasy is what I left in the Borg,when I was rejecting Christ message in order to fit the WT model of a “publisher”. Instead of following Christ, I was following seven clueless CEO’s of a failing publishing company. I allowed myself to be carried away by their sweet sayings. I’m pretty sure this is an Ex-JW recovery site,not a recruit new atheist network. Keep that Atheist BITE model on some other forum.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 2:15 pm
 
I’d guess that everything will be back to normal by tomorrow, Robert. We’ve had a couple of days of both sides of the Faith issue being represented, but I doubt that many of the non-believers here (if there even are “many”) have any kind of agenda to sway people away from their beliefs. I know I certainly don’t. But a conversation about it can be healthy once in awhile. But yes, this site has specific purpose, and it’s a wonderful one.
Well, I’ve replied to another comment that you directed to someone else. Sorry about that, but my other comment is between yours and GEM’s, and I don’t want to look guilty-by-association of anything duplicitous (if that’s what GEM was trying to do.)
GEM, get in here and straighten this thing out.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 10, 2015 at 2:27 pm
 
I don’t mean to come off as offended by the name, just pointing out I don’t fit the description. I respect everyone’s perspective on the matter. I just believe it would be extremely counterintuitive for a jw to come on here seeking truth about the Borg and be bombarded by what seems to be a poop on God and people of faith arena now. These people are going to run straight back to the arms of the seven samurai and might never question them again. I see these comments as dangerous to this sites cause.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 10, 2015 at 4:26 pm
 
Robert, I wanted you to have the last word, but then you said somebody got pooped on. Nobody got pooped on. And our differing views have nothing to do with how much we all care about each other. It’s taking all I have to keep from LOVE BOMBING this whole doggone group because of how glad I am to have found you folks.
When you all talk about your Faith, I’m thinking about how good it is that you’ve let go of the dangerous parts of it that the Org indoctrinated all of us with.
But at some point, I think we’ll get a forum where there will be a little corner we can go to to chat with each other about all of our different viewpoints without much danger of scaring new people away who will be more focused on the main blog posts and videos.
But even then, we can just give it a try. If it ends up being too sensitive of an issue for all of us, we can just shut ‘er down and stick with only the encouraging stuff, which would be totally fine.

 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:07 pm
 
“seven clueless CEO’s of a publishing company”. How true. Too bad we didn’t know this when we got baptized. All that history of selling books from door to door and playing records to clueless people. Just a con to buy more books. Oh, why didn’t we figure that out?
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:08 am
 
I’ll say something GEM. Nothing is certain of course but who knows if we are in judgement? We always wanted to be good Christians. Really, what has changed, except that we were swindled by the False Prophet? I feel personally still responsible to try as much as I can to be a good person. I fail miserably a lot but I still hope that it is the right way to live.
The Watchtower just tried to destroy our faith and until recently I had pushed it to one side in my life. This site has reminded me of it once again. I’m grateful. The Watchtower is past hope but we are still here. I don’t know the answers but I do have a Bible which can give me encouragement to do what is right to my fellow man. Sorry, I’m getting preachy again.
Reply
 
 
 
 R Morris says:

 October 10, 2015 at 11:49 am
 
Thank all of you folks for helping current and other ex JDubes. You have actually saved lives
Mr Hoop
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 10, 2015 at 2:40 pm
 
@R Morris . NICE APPRECIATIVE Words from you !!
Reply
 
 
 
 EW says:

 October 10, 2015 at 12:33 pm
 
1914……..101 years and counting…….you would think that by now, the JWs would begin to wonder if something is amiss, something just doesn’t seem to add up………perhaps it will take another 100 years to make them realize that something is really wrong………cognitive dissonance at its best!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 1:45 am
 
@EW .. Couldn’t Put it Better… 1914 … LAST DAYS Begin according to GB ?? Soon to be 2016 & the 102nd year of ‘ THIS GENERATION ‘ ??? .. SOMETHING FISHY I SMELL!!!
Reply
 
 ScotWm says:

 October 12, 2015 at 12:17 am
 
According to David Splane’s explanation, we can start the 1914 generation with Fred Franz, who was born in 1893. That would put us at the 123rd year of ‘ THIS GENERATION . ‘
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 10, 2015 at 5:13 pm
 
Robert 67, astuto zorro viejo. I remember a few comments
 back, who started the pooping game. Suggesting that
 Bible sceptics , non believers couldn’t see the Forrest for
 the Trees. A little presumptuous I thought to assume a
 superior position and suggest that anyone who didn’t
 agree with you was lacking in mental perception.
You can’t get away with that Robert, not even among
 friends, which we all are on Cedars Site. I’m sure you
 intended no offence, just zeal for your beliefs, right !
Anyway it’s past midnight here, I’m off to bed. Hope we
 can put this subject to bed also. And concentrate on
 on our main objective. Best Wishes, Ted.
Reply
 
 
 GEM says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:12 am
 
@JB Reezner: You threw the gauntlet at my feet, Sir?
I love you guys ‘n girls. For the first time in years, I can open up my lungs and feel the life as I breathe in the air….Thank you, all…but especially Lloyd.
JB, I think my question was “on point” and cut to the bone within this topic.
Personally, endorsing Robert’s comments, I left WT 30 years ago… ex Pioneer, ex Bethelite.. feeling that the Apostasy was manifesting itself within the Movement. I retained faith, but NOT religion. I have too much belief in Design and Purpose to cling to Atheism as my “raison d’etre” but I comfortable travelling the path of reasoning laid out by You and Ted.
I would just love to hire a street café in Havana, don the shades (I have no objection to the smell of Puros either!), and debate the Universe whilst we sip our coffee and watch the 1950’s and ’60’s drive past. A Hemingway moment…. (get back on track, Gem).
A patient who is a city Councillor and Quaker by persuasion, recently asked me if I still believed in God. I answered spontaneously and honestly and said “No”, I believe in my Creator. “Oh”, she said, “as we prefer to say amongst the Friends, we all answer to Our Maker”. My comfort light went on. I reject Religion and the concept of a Superior being dictating a prescribed way of worship… religion.
But, I am an eternal Romantic. Who am I to reject the concept of Purpose and Hope in this weird old Universe.
May I offer you a thought that probably incorporates that thoughts of the majority here.
Do you remember Danny Kaye and the song in the production of “The King’s New Clothes” by Hans Christian Andersen?
The people were in awe of the King’s New Suit…wanting to please the King. Until, a little boy came along and pointed out that the King hadn’t a Stitch on! “The King is in his altogether, in his altogether…and as Naked as the day that he was born….”
Well, that is what Lloyd has managed to do for us. Whether this will lead to the break up of the Kings empire, or reformation remains to be seen. Establishing the Truth about anything…is what it is all about.
Just on a personal note. My Dad is dying. He is my very last connection to the WT movement. I was gutted when they removed his Eldership after 50 years of devotion. It was all he had left when my “Unbelieving” mum died 4 years ago. The very people he loved, destroyed him.
On Tuesday I will have a heart procedure under General anaesthetic. I have requested a cell saver. Crazy, but I just cannot cross the line on the “Blood issue”. The hospital has been kind. They have found another problem in the right atrium.
So, guys… all the best… and please, I hope I haven’t said anything that is perceived to be a jab at anyone on this board. That is not my intention. All the very best.
 GEM
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:29 am
 
@Gem… HOPE It Goes Well at the hospital for you & yes I am with you on the Cell Saver issue … I would NOT Want Blood Except in a Last Resort Scenario in other words a Life or Death Situation so I would choose Alternative Treatment to Blood Not for any Biblical Reasons Just from a Lifestyle & Best Health Practises! This is Just a Personal Choice NOT dictated to by the Twisted Reasoning of 7 GB Men as their choice to have Fractionated Blood from Worldly People who have Kindly Donated it is Hypocritical on their Part since 2000 , because before that you could be DISFELLOWSHIPPED before 2000 for Taking HEMOGLOBIN but after 2000 you wouldn’t be …. CONVULUTED or WHAT??
Reply
 
 Shanti says:

 October 11, 2015 at 9:06 am
 
For elective surgery some hospitals will let you bank your own blood. Of course it has to be done well ahead of time.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:17 am
 
Oh GEM, there are so many sorries going on for me. So many sad situations but your poor Dad. They are cruel. Just reinforces how bad they are. I’m going to say “Good luck” with your op. Haven’t said that for many years so take that as a compliment for getting that out of me.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 5:00 am
 
GEM, that was a beautiful reply. I’m very sorry to hear about your dad. There’s seems to be no end to the stories of people being completely crushed by Org. I woke up 5 years ago (and faded, telling no one), and 1 year after that my mother ended up with a terminal health issue. She would’ve had more time with us, but one day her red cell count plummeted, she lost consciousness, and the doctor carried out her wishes to not take blood. Needless to say, my hatred for this cult is unlimited. It is deeply satisfying for me to see it struggling, and the prospect of it completely crumbling is something I want so badly that I’m still almost afraid to even dream it. But Lloyd and Co are helping me to see that it’s demise could very well become a reality, and sooner than I would have ever thought.
About your apostate comment. Yesterday was a strange day regarding the God/Bible subject. Of course, I am more than happy for people to retain their Faith, but if someone adds to their profession of Faith a little jab at those of us with a different point of view, then a defense is warranted.
However, by the end of the day, I was thinking to myself that I’d probably stretched the boundaries a bit too much for what this site was designed to be for. So, when Robert used the buzzwords “atheist, BITE model, recruit” referring to your comment, it sounded like he was saying you were up to something nefarious, and I wondered to myself if I’d missed something in your intentions. So, I promptly threw you under the bus, just to be on the safe side, lol.
However, it’s hard to tell tone-of-voice with written text, so when I said to you, “Get in here and straighten this thing out”, I should’ve thrown in an “lol”, because I meant it in a lighthearted way, and did fully expect that you would step in and clear up any misconceptions.
As for the “apostate” label issue, I’m fairly lukewarm about it. If it’s a badge of honor, then I don’t think I’ve earned it. If it’s a term of derision the Org would apply to me, then I don’t really care. And it doesn’t faze me if people apply it to themselves, or prefer not to. But I do appreciate the beautiful way it was used in the video.
I wish you the very best regarding your upcoming procedure. As you would guess from the beginning of this comment, I would personally implore you to take whatever treatment will save your life if it comes to that. But I respect your right to choose for yourself, my friend.
Thanks again for your beautifully written comment. I loved the imagery you added to it, GEM :)
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:04 am
 
@Gem, I am also hoping everything goes well for you with your procedure. I also am afraid of blood too unless it’s life or death. I do think it is safer to have an operation without blood if that is possible but sometimes it does mean that person will die without it.
I am imagining a young child, lying dead on the operating table and how heart breaking that must be for the doctors trying to save their life.
The Witness is thinking that if they die, they will just wake up in the “new world”. That is no different than the “worldly” church goer who believes that their loved one is in heaven. It might be comforting to people who believe like that, but that young person’s life has been cut short.
I know far too many people who have lost their young children, many, many years ago and they are still without that child in the “new world”, waiting and waiting and it never comes. How much better to take the blood and live instead of the “hope” of seeing that dead loved one in the “new world”. Our children’s lives are not something we can go to the store and get another one when that one dies.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:42 am
 
Hi folks hope you realise my little note to gb was ironic and tenderly sarcastic. I do not believe any of us are apostates even those who have no religion this is a non judgemental site i hope and our collective realisation is getting out of the tower. What we do, believe after that is our choice. I find some comments exactly what i believe others a good alternative take on things.All equally valid. Hope thats ok with you all. NB MR Pickles , you CAN be lead singer in my chorus with seven selected backing singers bleating as you direct. ruthlee
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:16 am
 
@ruthlee … Sweet of you to Allow me to be LEAD SINGER in the Group !! Our Theme Song could be …’ My GENERATION ‘ by The Who … Though I don’t know if the TERRIBLE 7 in Brooklyn would approve of some of the words like ‘ I Hope I Die before I Get OLD’ .. Then Again the Words are more probably More Accurate than their Interpretations of …’ THE GENERATION ‘ that will not Pass Away !!!
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:18 am
 
We know Ruthlee. It’s okay.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 5:17 am
 
Ruthless, I don’t know about anybody else, but I personally was HORRIBLY offended, lol. :)
You’re one of my favorites, m’dear. I can find nothing wrong with any part of your comment (except that you forgot to mention Tara’s heavy metal kazoo solo at the end).
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:54 am
 
ha ha ha ha ha rl
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:36 am
 
cheeky 😉
Reply
 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 7:20 am
 
I like Sundays because folks here who are still having to suffer through going to the meetings come back with little juicy tidbits of crazy things that were said, or hopeful signs of the Org’s demise.
So… what’s taking you guys so long??
PB, surely YOU were shooting spitballs at the WT conductor, or something. I need some details, lol…
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:31 am
 
JB, Another the ‘end is imminent WT-pp17’, starts with required reference to 607 BCE -pp1 and 1914-pp5, changes to a pseudo devil’s advocate approach, with erroneous application of “Just in the days of Noah” – ‘Thus the Scriptures indicate that world condition during the last days would not become so extreme that people would be forced to believe that the end is near.’ pp 6-7 citing Matthew 24:37-39 – conveniently ignoring how the conditions were actually described at Gen.6:5, which completely derails this line of reasoning.
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:40 am
 
PP 15-16 are the ‘standard issue’ …”By preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom, we….can help to rescue persons from sure death in the coming world catastrophe”..with a very poor illustration of a real life ship disaster, that followed and only confirmed how many good (worldly) people are out there to save our sorry ‘bums’ when we’re faced with real life catastrophe… this is another ‘truth’ that expedited my retirement…
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:57 am
 
There we’re booku comments on “how we are REALLY doing a lifesaving work” and the required “If God had ended the world 10 years ago, how many of us and new J.W.’s would not be here, ready to be saved.” This one was an epiphany when I realized the real ‘truth’ that there are approx. 70 million people (net -births minus deaths) added to the worlds population every year and using the best possible ‘new ones baptised’ (obviously, not net growth) of 200,000 new witnesses , EQUALS THE FACT THAT GOD IS BRINGING ONTO THE EARTH 69.8 MILLION PEOPLE, EACH YEAR,TO DESTROY AT ARMAGEDDON! i.e.- equates to 1 day of new J.W.’s and 364 days a year of pagans to be destroyed. So, sister ‘glad we’ve had the last ten years’….that’s 698 million more bodies to build the New World on top of…http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/faq also http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 11, 2015 at 12:36 pm
 
…correction..698 million more bodies of ‘babes and children’ …to build the New World on.
 Not my definition of “God is Love”

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 1:22 pm
 
Wow, excellent rundown, RetiredLE! Thank you very much.
Good point about Gen 6:5. It doesn’t really paint a picture of everything going along as usual.
Every time I hear the “just as in Noah’s day” thing it reminds me of Ray Franz talking (in Crisis of Conscience) about the Org floating the implication that the end might come in 2034, hinted at here: w03 12/15 p. 15 pars. 6-7 Our Watchfulness Takes On Greater Urgency — Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring “the deluge of waters upon the earth … Noah received the warning of the upcoming catastrophe decades in advance, and he wisely used the time to prepare for survival. … What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914…
I guess that idea never got any traction. And, they correctly decided that they should give themselves more time than that.
Your point is right on the money regarding the population increase vs. witness increase per year. That point finally hit my pea-brain awhile back.
Before then, though, I was already thinking, Why would there be a delay in Armageddon to bring new people in? There would NEVER come a time when there were simply no more people willing to become JW’s.
Of course, now I do hope that there’s a time coming when no one will want to be a JW, but at the time, it seemed like fairly sound logic to rule out that particular flawed reasoning behind Armageddon being delayed.
But “698 million more bodies of ‘babes and children’ …to build the New World on.” That says it all.
I appreciate the blow-by-blow of the meeting, my friend!

 
 
 EW says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:30 pm
 
If there is anyone looking forward to Armageddon it would certainly be the birds.They will certainly be busy and working overtime after Armageddon strikes.
I recall one of the JWs who used to study the Bible with me saying that whatever carcasses are not eaten by the birds then we as Armageddon survivors would have to bury them – she is probably right, it may really be a stinky situation if there aren’t enough birds to gobble up all those dead bodies quickly, so get your shovels ready! Remember to grab onto one when Armageddon strikes!
But I’m sure the GB has a plan B in case we forget to grab a shovel when Armageddon strikes, they have this all worked out – they will be storing shovels at their new HQ in Warwick since the new HQ will be spared during Armageddon! RFLMAO!

 
 
 EW says:

 October 11, 2015 at 9:12 pm
 
This Armageddon nonsense is certainly BS. A person who dies before Armageddon without hearing “the truth” will be given a resurrection onto the paradise earth and will be taught about God during Christ’s 1000 year reign.
However a person who has never heard “the truth” and is alive when Armageddon strikes will be permanently destroyed with no hope of a resurrection. So it seems that it’s best that people die before Armageddon.
Hopefully a lot of people will be lucky enough to die before Armageddon strikes. Getting a resurrection is just simply a matter of the timing of one’s death. LOL!

 
 
 EW says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:02 pm
 
I should have asked the JW lady who used to study with me, where will we get shovels from to bury the dead given that everything will be destroyed during Armageddon.
For that matter where will we get anything from to continue our existence given that everything will be destroyed during Armageddon – food, clothes, materials to rebuild houses, bridges and other infrastructure etc. etc.?
Will the power plants that currently generate electricity and the attendant infrastructure be spared?
Will the facilities that currently process potable water for human consumption be spared?
Since we won’t achieve perfection until the end of the 1000 year reign, will people still be getting sick? If so will hospitals be needed, will doctors be needed? Where will these doctors come from since JWs have been discouraged from pursuing higher education?
Where will we get the material from to build the hospitals? Or is it that people won’t be getting sick even though we won’t achieve perfection until the end of Christ’s 1000 year reign?
Will we still be experiencing the effects of Adamic sin during Christ’s 1000 year reign such as sickness and ill health given that we won’t achieve perfection until the end of Christ’s 1000 year reign?
It seems that we will, based on the GBs misapplication of a scripture that pertained to Israel’s hoped for restoration which they apply to the earthly paradise:
 Isaiah 65: 17 – 25:
“……No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will DIE as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the SINNER although a hundred years of age, he will have evil called down upon him……..”
So based on the GB’s teaching, persons will be dying during Christ’s 1000 year reign because the effects of Adamic sin have not yet been removed.
If people will be dying then people will also be getting sick during Christ’s 1000 year reign since sickness is also an effect of Adamic sin.
And I could go on and on and on……..

 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:18 pm
 
So typical, that they concentrate on “how bad things are” and “it’s so close to the end” when their organisation is crumbling to bits. It’s just a blind so that they have always used, their fear tactics to make people keep looking at them and not turning their heads away to see the real truth.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 GEM says:

 October 11, 2015 at 7:28 am
 
@ Meredith; Pickled and JB: Thank you for your personal gauntlet. And, just for the record JB, my acceptance of the Gauntlet of Challenge should have been followed by a tongue in cheek icon :), !
I will often play Devil’s Advocate in a discussion just to see if I can follow the reasoning of the Opposite bench, as it were. If you are an active JW at the moment and cannot see the glaring inconsistencies in WT dogma… there has to be something wrong with “your power of reason”. What did you dedicate your life to in the beginning?…indeed, to whom DO YOU belong??
I am touched by your own experience with your Mum, JB and you will never recover from such a deep wound.
Whilst working alone in territory close to Bethel some years ago now, I entered a complex of housing dedicated to temporary housing of International Doctors, Surgeons and other Medics.
A surgeon from Nicaragua (I speak Spanish) came to the door. I introduced myself and whom I represented and his eyes filled with tears.
He had just arrived from his home country and lost a 16 year old JW female patient… involved in a car accident. She had just passed the age of Majority in that country and he had to follow her wishes.
The tears streamed down his eyes as he sobbed…”I could have saved her…blood is the only oxygen carrier I could have used in her critical state.. she could have survived.”
I was stunned. I extended my hand to his and held it firmly. What could I have said other than he had respected her human rights and that she had a far greater hope. My gut, my head and my heart felt empty as I left him that evening. This just cannot be right.
My “Apostate” view is not “Apostate” at all. I believe each one should make his/her own decision in Medical matters… as Meredith mentioned a few comments back. Ingrained in me (as a Practitioner working in a profession Allied to Medicine) are all the dangers inherent in the use of Blood in Surgery.
If someone wishes to share their life blood and organs with another…that is a matter of conscience. This is 2015 and not 1981…things have moved on. By 1984, I had left WT behind me.
Your anger is a positive emotion JB. You have every right to vent it and those who endorse JW doctrine are not reflecting the glory of a loving Creator, who wants the best for us.
Peace, my friend.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 7:43 am
 
@JB . YES !!! … SPITBALLS Indeed BUT he only took my hand once then pointedly Looked at me & Refused on 4 other occasions,yet took his Favourites hand 7 TIMES!!!!! It might have been to do with my comment on the Generation Length being 102 years &DRAGGING ON a BIT … Panting on to end ??? As Habbakuk said!!!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
@PB: You are skating on THIN ICE, haha. But keep up the good work, my friend! I think you should just grab the mic one day and go on a 30 minute rant about the 7 MANGY MUTTS of BROOKLYN!
@GEM: Thank you for that reply. By the way, when I said “About your apostate comment”, I meant, ‘About the comment you made regarding the term “apostate”.’ You probably knew that, but that’s a little clarification, just in case.
Yes, the blood issue is particularly significant to me. Your account of the 16-year-old is heartbreaking.
I do still believe in an adult’s right to choose whatever treatment he/she wants for him/herself. And I acknowledge the risk attached to receiving a blood transfusion. When there is a safer alternative, and everybody on the medical team is competent enough to handle a non-blood procedure, then that seems like a reasonable way to go to me.
But if it comes to the critical point where a doctor is saying the words, “either accept a transfusion, or your life is about to be over”, and there are no medical alternatives, then I would implore anyone to reject any lingering loyalty to a cult’s perverse interpretation of an irrelevant restriction on eating blood (which I know you no longer subscribe to).
I liked Meredith J’s “Good luck” for your procedure. I will wish you that too. It’s funny how ingrained an idea can become into your psyche. I have started saying “Good luck” once in awhile, but, even THIRTY years from now, I’ll STILL be feeling a weird little tingly feeling when I do. Like I’m being naughty or something. The human brain… it’s a helluva thing.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 10:58 am
 
@JB … I did Hold on to the Microphone one Meeting after I commented as I knew this One Elder liked shooting SARCASTIC Comments at me . After I had answered about 5 times one meeting ,he said ‘ YOU are on FIRE TONIGHT’ !!! … So I said ‘ I Must Give You Credit … You Are VERY BRAVE TAKING MY HAND’!!! The Laughs Rang out Across the Hall!!! I Like to keep the Elders on their Toes!! One appointed man said to me ‘You Have So MUCH Knowledge & you are Regular at Meetings & always on ministry & your Bible studies are Progressing at the Meetings … How Come you aren’t an Appointed Man??? .. But it is my Near to the Mark Comments that I know what is preventing them recommending me … WHICH SUITS ME FINE!!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 12:29 pm
 
PB, if I were rich, I would gladly pay for whatever clandestine audio/visual equipment you would need to record your comments at your meetings! I think everybody here would get a kick out of that. Keep on doin’ what you’re doin’ :)

 
 
 
 EW says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:42 am
 
The screening and testing of blood for infectious viruses/bacteria/diseases has advanced tremendously since the 1980s so that today in the 21st century, there is a very, very minute possibility of contracting diseases from donated blood via a blood transfusion.
My personal preference however, is to use alternatives to a blood transfusion if possible. This is not because of the GB’s flapdoodle about blood transfusions – if a blood transfusion was absolutely necessary and there was no alternative then I would certainly have the transfusion done.
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 October 11, 2015 at 9:24 pm
 
Wild! Love it!
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:19 pm
 
@PB that’s an absolutely Wild comment! I absolutely Love it!
 Indeed it is dragging on just as Habbakuk said – this may very well be the GB’s next new light explanation to prevent a mass exodus.
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:37 am
 
GEM – First of all I want to apologize if anything I have said was offensive in any way, shape or form. We share a very common hatred for the lies that we suffered through while captives of the Jehovahs Witness. I believe we are seeing many different and some very loose interpretations of what constitutes an “apostate”. I still very much believe in the Bible as our makers word. When it comes to interpreting what that the word apostate means I have to stick with how that word describes it.
“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).
Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth. In the Old Testament, God warned the Jewish people about their idolatry and their lack of trust in Him. In the New Testament, the epistles warn us about not falling away from the truth. Apostasy is a very real and dangerous threat in the Bible. It is my belief that this “apostate” title more than clearly applies to the Warchtower Bible and Tract Society, not to its victims. I have not fallen away from the truth despite my decades in the cult nor have I rejected Christ. It is through this understanding that I, not out of judgement of others, but out of conviction of my own faith in the Bible refuse the title.
 You and everyone on here have my love and remain in my prayers everyday. I know for a fact that our maker understands what we’ve all commonly been subjected to and as our maker he knows the true intentions of the heart.
 I truly hope we can all put this behind us and I will definitely try and be more sensitive to others who don’t believe in a God anymore after their JW experience.
 I would implore all regular visitors here not to censur themselves, but to be mindful of all the wonderful advancements that have been happening in exposing this cult and that as a result this site will recieve many more regular JW visitors. Please, please do what you can not to scare them off permanently. When your still running with the WT virus in your programming you are conditioned to run for your very eternal soul at the mere sight of people ridiculing God.
 Galatians 6
 7 Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap; 8 because the one sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but the one sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit. 9 So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. 10 So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.
And
 Psalm 1:1,2
 1 Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked And does not stand on the path of sinners And does not sit in the seat of scoffers.  2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, And he reads His law in an undertone day and night.
 I was never shunned or marked, my awakening happened by comparing what I read in Gods word to what was happening witchin the organization. As an elder my humanity was being sucked out of me not by God and his requirements, but by the anti biblical and downright vile ever changing instructions of a false and glory seeking undiscreet slave class.
Please think of the small window of opportunity a single visit to this site offers to those inquiring from within the Borg. I truly believe our maker is not indifferent to how this cult has affected us emotionally, mentally and even physically. I have absolute faith that he smiles down on everyone here doing their part to help others break free of the JW cult.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 9:31 am
 
“I will definitely try and be more sensitive to others who don’t believe in a God”
And then the comment goes on with its aim of not-so-subtly trashing us.
I hope that even the other believers in the group are a little irritated by your insistence on putting thinly-veiled jabs in your comments, Robert. In the interest of peace, I’m not going to keep calling you out on it, but just know that it never goes unnoticed.
None of us have ‘ridiculed God’.
You’re killin’ me…
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:48 am
 
False modesty, its the Bible his word that you ridicule. I won’t resort to copying and pasting the numerous comments passing judgement on Gods past desisions in scripture available in just this article alone. All I am asking for is a toning down. It would be something else if everyone on here turned out to be Bible bashers and no one left to defend it.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 12:21 pm
 
I appreciate the directness of that statement, Robert. I like directness. This is a good point to hit the reset button and get back to work bashing the 7 BOZOS in BROOKLYN and being there for each other. Yo soy un hombre sincero. (De donde crece la palma.) Which is actually true– I have one in my front yard, lol.

 
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 October 13, 2015 at 5:23 am
 
Thank you JB…well put on behalf of us who have left our belief on a divine being and a divine handbook behind… Its just felt so good to be freely atheist in at least one area of my life…and after a lifetime of criticism…of not being good enough for Jah…of always missing the mark…of being disciplined and chastised…all by men…I love the equality on here of everyone whatever our beliefs…and I enjoy your reasoned unprejudiced and well mannered comments…just thought I would say!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 14, 2015 at 6:29 am
 
Idontknowhatodo, thank you very much, my friend.

 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:34 pm
 
Here, here Robert67. The term ‘apostate’ then if you look at it in the Biblical context is showing that the Watchtower is in fact an apostate because by rejecting truth is misrepresenting God and rebelling against Him. We are the lost sheep on the mountains. We are not apostates.
Jesus said “By their fruits you will recognise them.” Just look at all this bad fruitage we have all come to know about. Like the 2 Witness rule and what it has done to people’s lives, the busted up families, ruined lives, suicides and mental cruelty heaped on willing, humble sheep. You are right. They are it.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:31 am
 
I could never stop praying… if I said I was ‘apostate’ it would be to the Borg. never to God. It is the damage they have done to so many people. Jehovah has never done that. I just want back my simple hearfelt love for my God that I had before I became a witness. I am confused in so many ways as to what is Truth. So by stripping it right down and avoiding doctrine is my only defense.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:09 am
 
Labels are very useful in the supermarket, but sticking them
 on people creates barriers, especially in the mind of the sticker.
People change, life’s experiences see to that. But in the mind
 of the label sticker that’s not taken into account. It would be
 wonderful to go back to my youth, but regarding my conduct,
 my attitude and personality back then, I prefer not to dwell on it.
The change is ongoing, if we have a receptive mind, who knows
 what our views will be in the future. I refuse all labels, apostate,
 atheist, agnostic, or whatever, I’m just me. That’s why I enjoy
 being on Lloyds Site, we can all be just who we are, ( At this
 moment in time.)
Just a word to Gem, our thoughts are with you, look forward to
 hearing from you in a short while. Best Wishes, Ted.
Reply
 
 
 GEM says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
@ Ted: Aw thanks, my friend.
Thanks for your words Pickled. I am sorry if my last post was a bit jumbled. I am prepping for Admission today.. I am very tired and breathless, so my thoughts are a bit disjointed. Apologies.
Yes, somehow this site cuts through it all and gives the chance to express feelings. I have only been pounced on maliciously once.. you know, knees on shoulders, pinned to the ground and taking a real pasting across the chops (U.S: face cheeks). This site is tremendous.
I hope to be in touch when I emerge at the other end of this turbulent tunnel.
Sante, Saludos, Prost, Skol, Good Health everyone. Pax vobiscum!
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 11, 2015 at 9:02 am
 
GEM all positive and happy thoughts of love and recovery to you from me ,ruthlee
Reply
 
 GEM says:

 October 11, 2015 at 11:21 pm
 
@ruthlee: Thank you for your well wishes. You are all phenomenol!… and breathtakingly Human x
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 1:34 pm
 
If anyone can spend a few minutes to pop over to the ‘TMS gone’ thread, we have some pro WT people who seem confused in this site is satanic.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:07 pm
 
@Tara …, PICKLE is GOING into BATTLE …., in a Nice Gentle Way ?? Just Following our Loving GB??
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:12 pm
 
“EXTERMINATE.. EXTERMINATE”
A reference for my friends across the pond :)
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:41 pm
 
I’m feeling a little sensitive today. It’s thanksgiving here and I’m on my own. My ex and his wife have stolen my kids and grandbabies and i’m avoiding the meeting too. Just didn’t feel up to taking on anything else.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:53 pm
 
(っ˘̩_̩˘)っ My puppy and I send you hugs from the USA, Tara (whether you like it or not)!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
This canuck excepts hugs :)
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:45 pm
 
Great! And, Oops, I thought you were way over “to the right” of me, with PB and others. Instead, you’re wayy up there above me. Cool!

 
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:14 pm
 
Tara, I am am giving you a big cyber hug from Wisconsin, U.S.A. from me. This religion shows it’s real face when we stand up to it. It’s worthless in every way possible and stinks. Hopefully your grand babies learn about the real truth about the truth so they don’t get baptized and you have them in your life. Any religion that breaks up families has to be from the Devil and the best thing for us is to get out of it just as Revelation says to do. I for one don’t want to be associated with liars.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:16 pm
 
No I am done with it. Where were my brothers and sisters when I am being victimised by my ex and his wife – no where in sight and yet out of the blue comes my daughter in laws family and collect me from my sons house where I have taken refuge. They take me home and make me have thanksgiving with them.. I feel so humble. I never knew it could feel like this.
Reply
 
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 11, 2015 at 3:33 pm
 
@Tars … You have a GREAT SENSE of HUMOUR &’A SENSITIVE PERSON TOO!!
 A Good Combination !!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:18 pm
 
Ah PB you are awesome :) a non witness friend once told me to NEVER loose my sense of humour… I thank everyday for his wisdom. I may hit rock bottom but I can usually find something daft to say… thats the Brit in me.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 11, 2015 at 4:39 pm
 
And from Australia, try and hold your head up. It won’t always be this bad for you tonight. I know thanksgiving is really important to Americans. We can be your company for tonight. Why not make a cake or do something to occupy yourself with. Don’t get down in the dumps. It’s not worth it.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:12 pm
 
my daughter in laws family came and collected me. they took me into their home and made me have my very first thanksgiving dinner with them. I feel so humbled and yes, thankful. Thank you guys. you are my new family too. I’m in BC Canada btw.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:21 pm
 
Thanks Mer. I have non witness cousins in Australia and love them lots – even though I have never met them and only know about them through Ancestry.com lol. They found me and love me unconditionally. I have you guys on here and I feel as if we have known each other for years. :) you don’t know how much it means to me…
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:35 am
 
Dear Tara belated thoughts of sadness and love to you at this sensitve time. Isn’t it amazing how you daughter in law came through is’nt that the god thing to do? All these conversations and feelings are not going unnoticed sincerely ruthlee

 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:00 pm
 
Oh, I am so glad. I think someone Tara is looking after you and making it clear who is not. I hope you had a nice time with those ‘strange worldly people’. They’re really not that bad. I have family in the US too. He is a cousin who is a Witness believe it or not and he is as distant as ever. Typical. Thanksgiving in Canada. Could think of worse places to be.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 11, 2015 at 8:42 pm
 
I am doing some research on the correlation between the use of the WT terminology ‘society’ vs. ‘branch’ in specific connotation with the arise of the ‘helper’ class from 1994 forward.. So far I’ve seen in my dated (2010 version) WT library a huge tapering off of the term ‘society’ (in KM) during period 2000-2009. Any insights on this phenomenon? I believe I may be on track of the beginnings of the most recent permutation of the GB and their penchant for self glorification. Cedars article of 2012.. http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-governing-body-of-jehovahs-witnesses-explained , identifies that all of the current GB come from the ‘helper class’. For those recently or long time associated, especially Elders, when did you first notice the gradual and then overwhelming use of ‘branch’ and especially ‘faithful slave’ in correspondence and WT study publications? Did you ever have any contact with, direct or anecdotal evidence of bethelites, district overseers, circuit overseer, etc. that denoted a deep concern for an obvious change in the GB’s attitude about their lack of notoriety among the common J.W.’s?
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:06 am
 
As I recall during my time as an elder I noticed some serious and disturbing changes happening just before the 2011 annual meeting. That entire meeting was more like the dropping of a new iOS. The letters that started coming in seemed more and more like smokecreens designed to make the elders chase their own tails trying to decipher what it all meant. At least where I was located the changes in terminology and use of it caused alot of turmoil and bickering amongst the friends. Divide and conquer comes to mind. As long as you keep the elders bickering amongst each other nothing significant of good will get done and make the elite in Brooklyn shine that much brighter.
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:26 am
 
Robert, very interesting, as this was after my retirement, thank you. If you were an Elder for many years, you remember the earlier times when a CO visit with Elders had a balance of local familiarity mixed with ‘suggestions’ from the ‘Society’. This exchange was fairly reasonable with Elders trumping or ‘tongue in cheek’ with any radical CO’s that might come along. I saw this change over the aforementioned time, after 1994 and the advent of the helpers and the new use of ‘branch’ instead of ‘society’..things became progressively much more autocratic.
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:40 am
 
We had good CO’s, great CO’s and the occasional slug. With one great CO, we were shocked when he came back, directly to us, from a meeting with the GB, in early 2006. He was visibly and totally troubled, instead of considering the ‘branches’ information. He wanted our help and opinions on what he had just experienced. Seems, while there, the main focus was berating the travelling brothers for the fact that the vast majority of local J.W.’s had no idea who any of the ‘helpers’ were or the names of the GB! We were as balanced and reasonable with him, as could be allowed, but he was never the same after that. One young upstart Elder (ex bethelite) made it his personal crusade to start shaming the bro’s and sisters for not knowing the GB’s names, even coercing the body into letting him give a local needs on this topic. That was the start of a disturbing trend, which in my opinion defines the current GB.
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:48 am
 
We progressively were inundated with letter after letter from the ‘branch’. All local heavies started using ‘branch’ in place of ‘society’ and you’d be corrected if you slipped, with the wrong terminology. ‘Faithful Slave’ became the synonym constantly put forward. So, if you wanted to make any bonus points on your commenting, you had to always interject the ‘branch’ or the ‘slave’ tell us…blah.blah.blah…. this also became common, progressive and required to receive ‘special privileges’.

 
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:07 am
 
Fast forward to all of the changes made in literature, song books, child indoctrination (Caleb and Sophia should be pictured as N. Koreans) and finally the self proclamation of 2013 of the GB ONLY, being the FDS, (and whitewash of the scriptural Evil Slave) followed by the peak of self glorification with JW Broadcasting… as has been commented.. we have our own TV Evangelists, now. They’ve finally fulfilled their desire for every witness to know their name…above every other name. Whilst throwing the long timers, elderly, etc…etc.. under the bus. If you’re motivated by scripture..Prov. 16:18 – “Pride is before a crash, And a haughty spirit before stumbling”..if motivated by cinema..Maximus: The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:26 pm
 
Last thought of the day a new song for our merry band. “Feed the birds tuppence a bag…..tuppence tuppence…..blah blah come on JB and PB i’. hoping you’ll lead… rl
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:08 pm
 
Wait… You mean.. We’re putting the BAND BACK TOGETHER!? Ruthless and the Ruthtones? Helllll yeah!
Well of course I’ll be there to shred on my axe! PB will bring his mic (that he stole from his K Hall electronics closet), and will be alternating between SCREAMING and whispering. Tara will be there dancin’ like 70’s Tina Turner, and trying not to spill her “spring water”. Ted will be in the front row smoking a pipe and calmly tapping one foot to the beat (but on the 2 and the 4, subtly hinting at a jazz-level depth of comprehension of the music that even the musicians are unaware of). Grace and MJ will be singing doo-wops with their rhinestone-BeDazzled red hats on. Robert will be blazing out some tasty Flamenco on his classical guitar as I try to convince him that shredding on a distorted Strat is way better. Anonymous will ironically be running around screaming out her real name to everybody.
Then, we’ll all see Lloyd in the balcony, and shout, “Hellooo Lloyd”, but he’ll scream back, “MAN, my name is MR. MAN, dammit!”
And that brings us to Feed the Birds. I had to go back and re-familiarize myself with it on YouTube, Ruthless. I haven’t seen Mary Poppins in a loooooooong time, lol.
I can think of several more names here to put in the lineup, but it’s getting late. Feel free to get in here and tell us what you will be doing in this performance of the century :)
Reply
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 October 12, 2015 at 5:02 pm
 
To Meredith & JB,
This is for the above comment re: where are we… I have been offline for a couple of days & catching up today before we fly down south for a week.
I’m in sunny Qld. North of Brisbane. My inlaws are down at Bega.
Hubby says…wouldn’t it be funny if a few red hatted women showed up. Haha you never know who is reading this.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 12, 2015 at 7:35 pm
 
Bit like Anonymous but with red hats lol
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:11 pm
 
Grace, it’s okay, we can still work with this. Meredith J has a cousin that lives a few hours away from her and works at Fisherman’s Wharf Seafood in Ulladulla. If you and hubby could break away from the in-laws on Saturday, and drive up to meet MJ there at noon, that would be great! I recommend the seafood gumbo. I’m 9000 miles away, so I can’t make it (I know you’re both terribly disappointed, lol). But DO IT!! And yes, remember your red hat!
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:10 pm
 
JB, don’t say that. Grace will believe you. Grace, I haven’t made a time and place. JB is doing it. Not that I mind his interest. For the record, I don’t have a cousin that works at the Fisherman’s Wharf Seafood at Ulladulla, but I’m having a good laugh about it. I do have a red hat though. LOL
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 7:09 am
 
Lol, okay Grace, if it needs to be stated, I really have no insight on MJ’s family at all, nor am I psychic in any way. Although, my recommendation of the seafood gumbo could prove to be true, because it is based on an actual review I read of that place last night. I’ll leave you guys to figure out how to meet up somewhere someday, if that is even really a possibility. I hope so :)
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 13, 2015 at 1:10 pm
 
Grace, if you are still around: if it is easier, I can meet you at the Evolve Cafe in Bega. That is of course if you are incidentally coming down. The cafe is on the main drag near the shoe shop. If you can’t work anything out, don’t fret.

 
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:05 pm
 
Grace, I’m not that far from Bega at all. Ha ha ha.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:16 pm
 
If you want to meet sometime, we can work out a place and time. No worries.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:19 pm
 
Bermagui Sundeck Cafe on the Fisherman’s Wharf is much closer but time, well, have to tie in with if you can get down here.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:53 am
 
OH dear! sorry Cedars this got way off topic with my birdsong theme sorry. But as all can see we have been in the prison, the tower, the shunning desert , and hungry for some light relief. If and when we meet newly escaped ones i think this site should become recommended reading as part of the recovery process. If God willing there is time (which i think there is) It should become part of a HIGHER educational course as it explains so well the recovery process from the firsthand point of view. Also what a kick in the teeth to the dogs who will become toothless lions in time (a great mix of metaphors….Don’t judge my grammar!). red hats on sale in the foyer all donations to the gb porridge fund. tee hee ruthless/ruthlee
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:37 am
 
Theme of post: 62 “apostates” show their rejection of the harsh judgment intended for them by the Org with a positive, music-backed message and some dancing.
Theme of your comment: With a little song and some dancing, our little band rejects the Org’s repugnant judgment that all of us here are going to be bird food after Armageddon.
Level of relevance: 100%
You didn’t do anything wrong, Ruthlee. Maybe I went too far with my silliness, though. I shouldn’t let myself get on here and comment so late at night. My brain shuts down wayyy earlier in the day than that. :)
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:58 am
 
And the “Mr. Man” thing was something Lloyd was joking around about a few posts back. I guess that part of my comment could throw a reader for a loop if they didn’t know that.
On the bright side: At least I’m not taking Ambien to help me sleep anymore. If I were, I’d be waking up to probably-way-more-bizarre comments, and not even remembering writing them. (I only tried it for a little while, until I bought something on eBay one night that I didn’t remember buying.) Now I just have a recording of rainfall that is astonishingly effective at helping me sleep. Okay, NOW you can see an example of TRUE irrelevance, lol.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Brother Morris says:

 October 13, 2015 at 10:16 am
 
Brothers, I would like to provide you with some NEW LIGHT® that has just shone upon my head from my big fat office chair, 32 stories up in Brooklyn, overlooking the Manhattan skyline. What a view from…. oh sorry.
We are updating all of our literature with the latest NEW LIGHT®. For example from the Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11 is says,
“Apostates “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. Apostates use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Apostates do not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life.”
However, because of the NEW LIGHT® it now reads:
“The Governing Body “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. The Governing Body use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) The Governing Body does not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life.”
So the latest NEW LIGHT® that I came up with all MYSELF is replacing the word “apostate” with “Governing Body.” So from now on whenever you read literature with that word just change it in your mind. Got it?
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 October 13, 2015 at 4:35 pm
 
Dear Bro. Morris what wonderful light shedding you have there :) I will be sure to take that on board… If I decide to go to the meetings this week. Jury still out on that one.
Reply
 
 
 StanMorrisbiggestfan says:

 October 14, 2015 at 9:55 am
 
When will we be offered the autographed, limited edition, variant cover issues? I’m your biggest fan and absolutely love how you drop little hints of false modesty when you credit an article to yourself and not Gods word. Who needs Jesus when we have Mighty Morris surveying the realm and executing any that resist the cult indoctrination. I know for a fact you chill in mansions and rock Rolex watches on your wrist, but the camera never pans down to your shoes on JW Broadcasting, dare I guess Jordan’s?
 P.S we should be together too
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:33 am
 
Dear bro morris You are a saint. Do you think we could persuade the gb to worship you seeing as you have more truth in your little finger than they had in 100 years of pontificating. ruthless/ruthlee.
Reply
 
 
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← 62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 
Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
avatar 
Posted on October 12, 2015

Laid-off special pioneers are getting a rough deal from Watchtower
Laid-off special pioneers are getting a rough deal from Watchtower

This website recently reported growing resentment among bethelites over the constant downsizing that’s taking place as the Governing Body hoards its dwindling resources in order to complete the Warwick project.
Further evidence of this resentment was re-posted on Reddit from a German-speaking website for former Jehovah’s Witnesses just last week.
In the open letter (posted here), someone claiming to have been a special pioneer of nearly 30 years laments how he was used up and spit out by an organization that claims to care for him.
Let me first state for the record that this letter cannot be verified because it is anonymous, but given the extensive downsizing Watchtower has been undergoing the world over, a letter like this can hardly be considered implausible.
The full letter is below. Keep in mind this letter has been translated from German, so I’ve cleaned up some of the language for the sake of clarity:

Dear Brothers.
 This is my [response] to the way you dismissed me of the Special pioneer service [effective the first of] January 2016. The [fitting] “loving words” cannot reduce my disappointment.
 As you mentioned, I experienced a lot of joy and went through a lot of challenges. I was willing to set the kingdom interests first and to [make] sacrifices to serve Jehovah, wherever you thought it is necessary.
 In the belief that the end is near and that the organization is [led] by Jehovah’s spirit, I started pioneering in my youth. I [turned down getting] a good education in the hope that the organization needs me. Jehovah is the best employer, as I was told.
 And now you decided that my special pioneer service will end [on the first of] January 2016. I ask myself what changed that you do not need my service anymore after nearly 30 years?
 I am astonished that you advise me to serve as an normal pioneer in the future. If the end is near, why is my service as [a special pioneer] not necessary anymore? Is it the money? Am I too expensive for the organization?
 Do you need the money, which is donated to support the preaching work for other activities? For example for building projects, like Warwick or temple farms? I really feel betrayed and exploited.
 It seems to be the case that some buildings projects are more important for the “slave” than humans, who try to help others. Your offer to release me from my duty to reach the monthly hours goal, that I can do necessary things like looking for a job or for living, is really generous. Until January you want to pay my allowance as usual.
 Really generous of you! To be honest it feels like a hit in my face or a kick in my ass.
 I have no financial back up in my age and no education. I can probably not expect any support from my family, as they warned me [about getting into special pioneering].
 As you mentioned, I did not expect this decision and I do not believe anymore that the Governing Body or the Branch Office are really valuing the work I did.
 Your encouragement to trust at Jehovah sounds like derision. As I thought Jehovah provides for his servants through his organization. You do not want to lose my service and my experience, but you do not want to spend a single dollar for it anymore.
 How else could I interpret this sentence? Quote: “In view of the valuable experience you have gained in your ministry, we hope your circumstances will allow you to engage in the regular pioneering”… “In that way, your full time service will not be interrupted. As a regular pioneer, you may choose the congregation in which you want to serve; however, we hope that, if possible, you can stay in your current assignment. If you move to another location, please talk to the circuit overseer or write to the Service Department to know where you might be more useful.”
I truly understood now, what is important for Jehovah`s organization: the only things that are counting, are efficiency and the gain for the organization, not the people.
 Disappointed greetings.
 Your Brother
 (I do not want to tell you my name until I am not longer depending on you).
It is safe to assume that this man’s cause for agitation is far from unique, and that countless other bethelites and special pioneers are also being shown the door by Watchtower and left to fend for themselves.
The Witnesses who obeyed the prohibition on higher education and gave up their prospect of university or college education to serve in a full time capacity are now effectively being punished for their faith in Watchtower. Now they are abandoned —middle-aged, unskilled, unemployed and homeless — with not a cent to their name to show for the decades they spent loyally peddling cult propaganda.
Apparently, those who are being handed their pink slips are not walking away quietly as the Governing Body would wish, grateful for the privilege of serving a deluded group of cult leaders in New York. The realization that they wasted the best years of their life may be beginning to sink in.
Furthermore, a question should be forming in their minds, and in the minds of other thinking Witnesses who are beginning to see through the facade the Governing Body has set up to attempt to hide their financial woes: If the end of the system is near, nearer than ever before, shouldn’t the worldwide work of kingdom preaching be expanding rather than diminishing?
The best employer?
In the letter, the brother states that he was told Jehovah is the best employer. Those words ring hollow when you consider that employers, at the very least, pay their employees, not milk them of free labor for decades and then leave them on their own to starve.
Today, the best employers offer full time health and dental coverage, long and short term disability, paid holidays, 401(k) plans, conference and training budgets, above average salaries, and more. In the event downsizing occurs, employees are given severance packages, and in most countries, qualify for unemployment, so they can cover their basic expenses while trying to find a new job.
Full time servants who are dismissed by Watchtower receive none of those benefits, and instead are given three months to find a job and move out. And without any actual work experience or education that most hiring managers require, the rejected witnesses are in perhaps the worst position imaginable to find employment.
If Jehovah truly is backing the Watchtower organization, it therefore stands to reason that he is not even a mediocre employer.
Rubbing salt and lemon in the wounds
It appears the men Watchtower appointed to carry out the layoffs are not sensitive to the desperate situation they have placed full time servants in. As the letter quoted:
“In view of the valuable experience you have gained in your ministry, we hope your circumstances will allow you to engage in the regular pioneering”… “In that way, your full time service will not be interrupted. As a regular pioneer, you may choose the congregation in which you want to serve; however, we hope that, if possible, you can stay in your current assignment. If you move to another location, please talk to the circuit overseer or write to the Service Department to know where you might be more useful.”
Not only is the Governing Body deserting special pioneers so they can save money for their Warwick fantasy, they are downgrading them to regular pioneer status and still attempting to milk these poor people for more of their free time.
Call me materialistic, but putting myself in their shoes, my main concern would not be “How can I be more useful to this organization?” but “How do I find a job that pays enough to provide food and shelter?” How these slave masters can dare to control where their fired servants live and wring out every last drop from them is beyond me.
Keep warm and well fed
One can’t help but be again reminded of the scripture in James 2:15-17: “Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”
If this letter is any indication, this anonymous special pioneer will sadly not be the only full time Watchtower volunteer left to fend for himself by an organization he trusted to reward him for his years of service.
 
kyle-racki-signature
 
 
 
 
 
 
Further reading…
◾Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing


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← 62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 
170 Responses to Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing


Newer Comments →
 
 Sister drifter UK says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:07 am
 
I wonder what their employment status is ?
 Employment law is a complex issue and there could well be claims against WBTS for unfair dismissal.
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 12, 2015 at 5:43 am
 
Sister drifter UK,
The Bethelites have to join a separate Religious Order, and make a vow of poverty. The vow and related paperwork is available on the Internet.
I should imagine the expensive lawyers the WTBTS adores have covered any inconvenient employment law issues!
However, morally, the WTBTS are guilty of outrageous abuse of the unfortunates who volunteer their time, money and energy to them.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:26 pm
 
As @excelsior noted, Bethelites and Gilead missionaries are Special Order, but pioneers and publishers are considered “independent” agents or contractors. As marketing agents they were not compensated by a Watchtower salary (although a stipend was once issued but I believe this was eliminated), and Watchtower does not “hire” pioneers thus there is no employment relationship.
But, big picture time–we have this whole rebranding effort, glitzy HQ offices, video production to rival CNN or MTV, McKingdom Hall as the new single approved layout, and layoff of DO, Bethel and special pioneer volunteer types with mostly high school education. With the landscape being razed of the riff-raff [https://youtu.be/JxLS-cpgbe0], HQ could bring in “elite” [Dolce & Gabanna-class] “helpers” [think Divinity degrees or Watchtower trained types with HQ ordination].
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 October 13, 2015 at 3:46 pm
 
Mckingdom hall hahahahaha! That made my night. Thanks!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Dblaron42 says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:14 am
 
Chew em up. Spit em out. Borg style. #thankwhomeverforsatanswelfaresystem
Reply
 
 
 Sheree Stokell says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:42 am
 
In my country, Australia, they would qualify for welfare. Great. We taxpayers will have to support them. It’s watchtower’s mess but the taxpayer will pick up the tab.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 October 13, 2015 at 5:04 am
 
Hmmmm the welfate state that is an integral part of Satans System…how ironic!
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 14, 2015 at 3:52 am
 
Yes, but it’s not much. Barely enough to feed yourself and hardly enough to pay any rent for. The average house in NSW at the moment is around $350 a week outside the city. $700 in the city. Single people are forced to share with a number of other people. Food and electricity costs are through the roof. Welfare doesn’t cover it. Payments are around $200 a week. This is not enough to live decently. That is why a lot of people are homeless here. Plus nobody will rent a house or room out to someone on welfare.
Reply
 
 
 
 ForestDaughter says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:50 am
 
“How these slave masters can dare to control where their fired servants live and wring out every last drop from them is beyond me.”
Beautifully said, Kyle. To be honest, I don’t believe the GB are just deluded, to be this nastily sneaky. As they have all the hallmarks of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder they could be quite cognisant of their actions, and the only justification is because they believe themselves to be superior to anyone else…like any cult leaders. They know their actions are reprehensible, but they just don’t care, and will never admit that they are wrong. This latest action shows exactly who they are, and as far as I’m concerned the gloves are off.
Btw, it’s lovely to see you Kyle. Great article. Hope you and your family are all well. :)
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 2:19 am
 
Let’s hope everyone who is dismissed sends a letter to Cedars and then we will have a whole lot more to talk about. Seriously though dosen’t your heart bleed for these abandoned souls. They really did give their life sacrifice and all to no avail.That is a really big wake up call but God works in mysterious ways. rl
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 12, 2015 at 2:36 am
 
Imagine how we felt after our awakening to the fact that the WT is not the truth and that it s a modern day cult? I know my self after over 22 years serving in my congregation and as a 110% JW it took me a long time to adjust that I may have wasted a great portion of my life.It was a real shock for a long time. Now put your self int he shoes of special pioneers who for the most part put in decades of services and hard work and trusted that they would be taken care of with at least basic human needs? Then on top of that being given your walking papers and telling them ok we do not need you and cannot pay the little we were paying you so SEE YOU LATER and have a nice day! It has to be very DRAMATIC and all these things happening at once.At least in the “NORMAL” JW life most of the time a person has a job or has been in the job world for some time and can maneuver around within the system to provide for themselves and hopefully have developed some employment skills along the way but a special long time pioneer may not have any of those skills at all and whe he is fired may not be able to cope well.It makes it much worse. We should have empathy for our fellow JW friends for what they are going to go through even though we have awakened we have been where they are.
 Does anyone know how much a special pioneer would receive from the WT per month? I guess it would vary
 per country but does anyone have an idea? It is a sad day in JW land.
Reply
 
 Jaak says:

 October 12, 2015 at 3:58 am
 
They also receive a car if I’m not mistaken?
Reply
 
 Jaak says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:01 am
 
Can they keep the car?
Reply
 
 Ayde Cantu says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:37 am
 
@Jaak,
According to the website where they sell their older vehicles, there should be more inventory in December 2015. So maybe they won’t get their cars :Shttp://www.circuitvehicles.com/home/
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:38 pm
 
@Jaak @Ayde if memory serves, the cars were reserved for CO’s and DO’s, and special pioneers got cars from the kindness of strangers and sometimes a deal off the recycled car website. Buy a (fleet discounted) car for CO, 80-90k miles on it, then re-sell to a pio (or benefactor) above market value for a high-mileage auto.
And, that’s how I earned my Cartier watch..

 
 
 
 
 
 JJ says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:19 am
 
I agree with you, Holy C. As much as I’m angry for these Special Pioneers and other higher-ups (A couple of crusty old, bitter Special Pioneers were the ones who ‘studied’ with my parents and indoctrinated them into the twisted people they became) I do feel sorry for them as well.
 Like you said, I was a JW for 40 yrs and much of that time I was a 100% one. I felt they (the JWs) robbed me of regular emotional development and experiences but at least I did get an education and a good job. When I stopped going to ‘meetings’ I didn’t have to change anything.
 I’m sure getting kicked-to-curb, in the fact that these Special Pioneers will lose whatever money and benefits were provided to them, will be a wake-up call for many. When they realize, like we did, that they WASTED time, opportunities and money on NOTHING BUT A GREEDY CULT then I’m sure it will be time for a trip to the doctor, at the very least.
 I hope they do form a large class-action lawsuit against the WT! Hopefully some of the Society’s lawyers are waking up with all of these things happening! Then something really big could happen!
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 October 12, 2015 at 5:34 am
 
Here in the U.S. their monthly stipend varies according to the region they are assigned. Since some places are more expensive than others you could get anywhere from $500 a month to almost $2000. It used to be $500 per month no matter where you lived.
I hope that more letters like this one are forthcoming and made public. Public is going to be the key because the letters themselves are not going to change the gb mind. They have shown time and again that they don’t care what anyone thinks. If the rank and file see the complaints for themselves it may help to awaken them to the abusive relationship that they are a part of.
 Many will make excuses for the gb no matter what. They’ll call any complainers weak in the faith and say that they should trust in Jehovah more. Meanwhile these people who were once prestigious members of the JW elite are forced to come face to face with the dire consequences of their devotion. The gb does not care. They could at least write them a check for $15000 to get them started in a life on the outside. They can afford that easily. Especially if they can afford to give away tens of millions in lawsuits and settlements.
 Adding even more insult to injury is the statement made in the new O.D. book. Where it says that the elders can assist the poor in the congregation by helping them apply for government assistance. I have no doubt that this was intended to apply to the newly unemployed bethelites and special pioneers then to a lesser extent the rank and file. It’ll be the congregations problem soon. The gb will wash their hands of it and guilt trip the local congregations into “caring” for these faithful ones. Disgusting
Reply
 
 dee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:11 am
 
Thank God for Satan’s evil, wicked system of things that we are to be no part of and that is doomed for destruction at Armageddon for providing welfare assistance!
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 October 12, 2015 at 1:41 pm
 
@chiafade – yes, even Satan’s greedy corporations [I can’t even a hold a straight face writing that] hold out a severance check, even if only 2 weeks, when they give “deadwood” the boot. Useful wood gets even more…
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 October 12, 2015 at 2:48 am
 
Jehovah has always been a bad employer. I do not know a single person who has worked joyfully with him/her up to the end. “All is well that ends well”! Whay there is almost no happy ending with Jehovah.
Just few examples:
 MOSES was severely punished and died before it was planned (to prevent him from seeing the land he had fought for), King SAUL died a sad death and family destroyed; King David’s wives were raped and family experience devastation with a sword and stories of rape among his children.
John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus, was decapitated and Jesus end up hung on the CROSS or the STAKE depending on whether you are a Catholic or a Jehovah’s witness.
Today’s Jehovah’s Witnesses are cheerfully awaiting ARMAGEDDON… Stories of bad endings continue.
Reply
 
 Starlight of fire says:

 October 13, 2015 at 8:22 am
 
@Hakizimana Moses is the only one that I felt didn’t deserve to be punished. Jesus knew that he would suffer many things, including death. That was the purpose of him being sent forth to earth. John was innocent too.
But, Why did king Saul die a sad death? Why were king David’s wives raped? Why was that David had a lot of problem in his family?
Saying that King Saul and David worked joyfully to Jehovah up the the end, just show your lack of biblical knowledge. You must know that King David deserved to die because what he did with bathsheba. He committed adultery with her and when she got pregnant he decided that her husband deserved to die. According to the law back in those times, punishment for adultety was death. Why wasnt King David held responsible for adultery?
It’s easy to talk, but do your research before you talk nonsense. Now, regarding if jehova is a bad employer, you guys know jehova has not hired anybody. Governing body is the one hiring here. So don’t blame jehovah for that. Are you guys recognizing that jehovah is leading wt society organization? Doesn’t matter what the governing body claim, you guys never believe in that. So don’t believe jehovah is a bad employer because for many of you he doesn’t even exist
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:47 am
 
@Starlight of fire,
 I am really saddened to read your comment.
 You say “King David deserved to die because what he did with bathsheba”! It seems you have Jehovah’s mind…
If you had been David, what would you have chosen between your death and your wives’ rape by your own son (Absalom)?
You want to mean that David deserved death and then was spared at the price of his wifes’ rape?
Read Jeahovah’s mind from here http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005365?q=%22calamity+out+of+your+own%22&p=par I will tell you who you are: A robot or a human!!!
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 October 13, 2015 at 3:57 pm
 
Well lookey here! A bethelite perhaps? It’s nice to see that you have one foot out the door. Your being here proves that.
 Please explain how God is backing this organization while it is ,at this very moment, suffering the same indignities as Christendom? When churches close and people stop attending its all “see Babylon’s waters are drying up! God’s judgement!” But when kingdom hall’s are sold all worldwide construction ceases (except for Warwick of course the retirement home) its “the end must be close the slave is simplifying”.
You can’t have it both ways. Or maybe in the future you may at the Mckingdom hall or the burger kingdom Hall whichever you prefer.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:10 pm
 
@Starlight of fire, how do you know that Jehovah is leading the Watchtower Organization? Can you prove that? If so, I would like to know what your proof is.
Reply
 
 Starlight of fire says:

 October 15, 2015 at 10:25 am
 
@Anonymous: read my comment again. Am I saying that jehova is leading at organization? What I’m @saying is that IF you know that Jehova is NOT leading Wt society, why can you say he is a bad employer? He can’t be a bad employer because he is not leading Wt society, governing body is the one to blame.
@Hikizimana: that was the law in David time. Many people died because adultery. It’s funny that you cited a watchtower article. Do you have the wt society as your authority? Do you believe in what they are teaching? Do you share jehovah mind regarding to what happened to David?
 I don’t mean that his life was spared at expenses of his wives rape. That was the consequences of his sin. It was jehovah who punish him in that way.
@Chiafade: I’m not saying jehovah is leading wt society. It was a question. when you blame jehovah for being a bad employer, at the same time YOU are recognizing without any proof that he is leading the society. But because he is NOT LEADING the society, why do you blame him of being a bad employer?
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 October 15, 2015 at 12:11 pm
 
@Starlight, I get what you are saying. My bad. I misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks for setting me straight.

 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:39 pm
 
It’s not my business, but I think maybe Starlight is defending Jehovah, rather than defending the Org. I think she/he is making the point that no one here should call Jehovah a bad employer, given the fact that no one here really sees it as being Jehovah who does the hiring in the Org, or who backs the Org. English may be Starlight’s 2nd language (I say respectfully).
But I’m wrong a lot, so who knows…
Reply
 
 
 Free Thinker says:

 October 15, 2015 at 9:07 am
 
Exactly! Don’t blame the True God for someting He isn’t responsible for, because “The prophets (i. e., the self-appointed JW.ORG-prophets) are prophesying lies in my name. I HAVE NOT SENT THEM (!!!) OR APPOINTED THEM OR SPOKEN TO THEM (!!!). They are prophesying to you false visions (the end comes in 1877, 1878, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, before 2000, sooooooon), divinations (the UN will destroy all religions, and only JW.ORG will survive), idolatries (the FADS is your god & boss) and the delusions of their own minds (JW.ORG is a spiritual paradise, all is well, we are the best)”, see Jer 14,14 et al.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 15, 2015 at 10:03 am
 
This probably goes without saying, but the purpose of my comment above was simply to clarify what Starlight’s premise may have been. It wasn’t an endorsement of her/his position.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 12, 2015 at 3:07 am
 
Faded 20 years & never ever thought anything like this would ever happen in WT.
 Its getting rid of the elite troops.
 Myself I’ve been redundant twice, both times cushioned by redundancy money. But its also the loss of identity the I’m a “…..” is no more. I knew men who hated their job, with tears in their eyes at redundancy. It can hit a person on so many levels, I think the going rate is one suicide per 800 or so -I was told at the time. Some will be fine. But unskilled many will work long unsocial hours for low wages, been there too. What a group to treat so cruely, persecution would be much easier to bare.
 It does look like a salvage & scuttle operation.
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 12, 2015 at 3:21 am
 
Buddy can you spare a dime
Reply
 
 
 Caltanzee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 3:45 am
 
So glad my wife and I woke up after we grew more and more of the suspicious of the constant changes.So i started pokeing around on the internet to get information and stumbled onto this website. At first sceptical. Then I checked out jw facts..came back to this website and bam! Found the smoking gun…the secret rule book full of deluded nonsense..the secret letters lying and deceiving the members with the stealth thithing..The hidden paedophilia.. The screwed up generation teaching…the shunning. The socalled new light. Same old s.h h.i.tt..All those betelites needs to wake up and walk out and not allowed themselves to be continually duped. This organization is a cruel and vindictive litigious organization. The love they claim is only a thin veneer.
Reply
 
 
 M. Rhodes says:

 October 12, 2015 at 3:58 am
 
I’ve also heard or read that these ones are being told to “trust in Jehovah.” Isn’t that rich?
Leaders clearly aren’t riding the “trust train.”
You have an aging, unskilled, group of people who are now told to go into a world they left years earlier. These people are already educationally and financially disadvantaged, now add in the fact that many of them are in their declining years and may face health problems. And they have no type of medical plan.
Once again, we see that the organization is put ahead of people.
If there is any bright side, some may awaken.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 October 12, 2015 at 5:55 am
 
The special pioneers I feel bad for becuase their life was placing cult literature. In the case of this letter decades!
 I know some bethelites are skilled in construction trades so at least they may be able to make it. One bethelite who I know personally was a systems engineer in Brooklyn 90 sands building for over 20 years. He was asked to leave in his mid forties. No wife and no family in the org. When they met with him and asked him where he wanted to pioneer he said “I’m not going to pioneer!” “It takes money to live here so I’m getting a full-time job in the city”. He landed a job as a systems engineer in a factory just north of NYC making $10,000 a month. Would you like to know the jewel that some of the brothers were telling him when they found out? Be careful brother Satan could be using this to distract you from kingdom interests.
 There you go! Satan takes better care of you than the organization will.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:23 am
 
No doubt, even if the letter is a fake, with bethel’s closing down many find themselves in this position. No homes, no jobs and very few possessions, it’s very sad. Without question the Watchtower should, and rightly should, be made to pay and support these individuals. The government should hold the Watchtower responsible for the bill. If the Watchtower knew this was its policy then without doubt it is liable to provide aftercare for these ones.
“A worker is worthy of his wages’.
It was no doubt because of this ( trying to hold the Watchtower responsible) the Spanish bethel closed:-( Terrible treatment of the sheep indeed:-(
Reply
 
 
 Me 3.0 says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:24 am
 
I have been in full time service for 15 years, including special pioneering and bethelite. My assignment in bethel was tied to legal and public relationship, in secular terms: lobbying. My conscience always faced the following dilemma: during the week I was working closely with witnesses coming to my office in bethel as external consultants, all educated in universities and driving luxury cars; at the same time we were sending letters to the bodies of elders which clearly stated that any elder “openly” promoting higher education should be removed.
I was raised as a witness and did not pursue higher education at the time, however, as soon as I climbed the Watchtower corporate ladder I realised that there was NO security. Humble full time servants were sent home so easily; brothers in high positions, as I was, could also be dismissed in a second due to internal politics that follow the same pattern of the corporate world. The higher I climbed the more I needed to watch my back.
This is a message for the many witnesses that choose to join the “internal secret resistance” (they try to change or fight the system from the inside): think ahead! Your situation is not sustainable! You may be afraid of fading and being shunned but there is a BIGGER problem you may have to face: poverty!
My advice is: go back to school, get a qualification, it is never too late! This is what I did: I prepared myself to safely leave the organization. When I made the big jump everybody was shocked: I was a very popular convention speaker, a shiny elder with authority (bethel desk, special committees bla bla bla): in a week I was gone, happily working as manager for a multinational. I got messages from brothers worried (or whishing) that I would end up homeless under a bridge… after ten years living on the ridiculous Watchtower allowance. Well… I had planned my escape: evening studies, side jobs, savings.
The emotional impact of loosing an income can be dreadful. Fear that MORE than loosing your circle of friends in the congregation. I don’t want to sound patronising but I AM INVITING THE HESITANT TO FEAR POVERTY MORE THAN FEARING SHUNNING.
My plan worked out: few years after fading away, I had completed a University Master Degree, I run a financial consulting firm, I remarried with an amazing girl (my ex wife left me because she could not imagine not to be married to a top-level powerful elder), and we have beautiful children.
Friends, if you pioneered for many years you developed very useful skills, because basically you were a commercial, a seller, and an operations manager for years: you can make a living with those skills. If you were a witness for years, you spent tons of hours studying, reading and preparing essays: instead of studying watchtower nonsense, study for a secular school at night and get some qualification, it will be less demanding than preparing public talks.
A final note about the legal implications of watchtower slavery: it has been tested on courts and unfortunately watchtower always won. Full time servants sign a legal document, the so-called vow of poverty; additionally, the religious or charity status of watchtower does not compel the borg to comply with standard employment laws. I don’t speak on hearsay: I was in the branch while some of those cases were brought to court. Also for experience I can add that watchtower is very powerful at lobbying: it was part of my job to develop contacts, having lunches with judges, participating in law reform groups etc. Oh, in case you find this surprising… forget the “no part of the world” rule that applies to everyone else: from Hospital Information services to Legal department, from Building Committees to International Convention Committees, the most important roles are performed by the watchtower lobbyists which use the same methods and political leverages of any other large corporation. Doing that job is what opened my eyes to TTATT.
Reply
 
 JJ says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:10 am
 
Me 3.0 all I can say is, “Wow!”
You were the person I was hoping would finally come out and say something!
Reply
 
 R Morris says:

 October 12, 2015 at 2:26 pm
 
I am just so proud of what I believe to be young people ( I am 57) your bravery is inspiring.Your generation is not as trusting and intimidated by authority…
I love you guys
Reply
 
 
 
 Scrubmaster says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:17 am
 
@ME 3.0 — The best public talk I every heard.(Me applauding at the end.) :-) Amen. As a matter of fact my youngest daughter came home a little upset a few nights back, because the CO was on the platform talking against going to college. I just flat out told her she could go to college and when she is older and has to pay her bills, no one form the organization will be looking to help her out.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:18 am
 
@Me 3.0: Thanks for sharing your personal experience. This is very eye opening. Now we know “the truth about the truth”!
Reply
 
 
 Scrubmaster says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:27 am
 
ME 3.0 – I wish you would write a book about your experiences if it did not compromise your identity.
Reply
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:54 pm
 
Exactly what i was going to say! You are our hero!
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:10 am
 
IS this true? if so you are morally obligated to inform the rank and file by letter to all congregations. We have been duped on all levels but if you have high rank information then you have work to do. Dear friend i’m not angry at you but the system and its corrupt practice.How long did you see the rot so inherant in the system? I feel so ashamed to have put my name to this bad org but at least we are seeing some transparency. The elite are a wicked lot shameful and one day God will say “Let her drop” ruthless/ruthlee.
Reply
 
 
 Kaput says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
Great post and advice Me.3.0! – I agree – you can make it anywhere with the right attitude and willingness to buckle done and learn / work hard. Happy to hear that you are living a happy balanced life now. This corporation instills a feeling of helplessness in its members as they are continually taught to wait, rely and listen to it’s take on the world and by definition their life course – it takes a lot to break free of such thinking. My heart goes out to the older and infirm ones that were kicked out – even at this later stage in life I do believe that you can find happiness and contentment if you believe in yourself and your abilities whatever they are.
 I completed an online degree when I was still in and I can personally vouch that this improved my earning ability dramatically which lead to a major change in my quality of life. Many online courses are cheap or even free – https://www.coursera.org/
Reply
 
 
 Panhandlegirl says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:00 am
 
Me 3.0
 Very interesting and informative letter for those still sleeping in the organization. I was no where near to where you have been in the organization, but I did wake up, and like you,got my education and now make a good living and am free from those greedy and lying men and organization.I always believed the WTBTS was just a publishing corporation (we were/are called publishers), but you have provided a large amount of inside information confirming that they are no different from any other business corporation and worse than many of them. Thanks for all the information.
Panhandlegirl
Reply
 
 
 Panhandlegirl says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:08 am
 
@Me 3.0
 I must add that your inside information is valuable and beneficial for all of us who have left.
Reply
 
 Me 3.0 says:

 October 13, 2015 at 4:51 am
 
Thank you for all your replies to my comment. You highly motivated me to share more of my experience and of what I know. The main issue with WT is not simply the damages and the errors but the fact that they are FULLY AWARE of what they are doing. too many folks still inside the org. justify all sort of things with the mantra “we should not expect a perfect organisation”. The problem I have with them is not about not being perfect but about being wilfully deceitful, masters of organised deception. Te issue is not doctrinal but ethical.
They don’t sell damaged goods out of negligence or incompetence: rather they are VERY DILIGENT AND COMPETENT in manufacturing and distributing what they themselves know is a damaged good.
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 October 13, 2015 at 8:22 am
 
3.0 great comments, I am still deep into the organization and so far all the exit doors lead to very difficult outcomes. Jeriamiah said he was just going to keep his mouth shut but the word of God was like a fire inside of him….over the last 20 years have repeatedly reminded myself to keep my mouth shut and thoughts to myself. ..but it’s not working.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:16 am
 
Go for it pow. Is pow ,prisoner of war or POW dynamic and powerful? i think the spoil of this war will be our lives and our dignity because that is all that is promised. we will support you in our own feeble way but at least you know you are among friends not fiends and frenemies. ruthlee

 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:14 pm
 
@Me 0.3, you are totally write. The damage I have witnessed from “Other sheep” when I was a ministerial servant especially in sex matters (fornication, adultery, treachery, etc.) was not just happening, it was a surprise it was linked with Bible stories such as Angels having sex with humans (Gen 6:2-4), David and Bathsheba (2 Sam 12:11-12)! They were excuses for many people to justify their “crimes”…
The spiritual food JWs feed on is 100% aphrodisiac! Too much sex in the food….
*** g95 2/8 p. 16 Why Do I Have These Feelings? ***
 It may be that a mother unwittingly aggravates the situation by disparaging her husband or by being overly possessive of her son. One study of effeminate boys made this observation: “Some of the parents had wished for a girl instead of a boy and had subtly encouraged their young son to dress as a girl or dressed him that way.”
Reply
 
 
 JJ says:

 October 13, 2015 at 7:12 pm
 
Me 3.0 you have just answered another one of my biggest questions; Do the people, who are the higher ups in the JW org, know what they are really doing???
 I mean, do they know it is all B.S. and all the bad stuff that is happening to the people who are deceived in the congregations.
 So my answer from you is “Yes they do!”
Reply
 
 
 
 
 summer says:

 October 13, 2015 at 8:18 pm
 
After my “fall from grace” for turning to the police instead of keeping my mouth shut…i put myself through college..bifurcated masters in science/nursing and criminology.
I was av 100-120hrs/mo..had over 20 bible studies..most of whom took the “dip”. Had parts a assemblies. Worked very assembly, usually cooking or doing dishes. 30 yrs ago, college was frowned on, even threatened those who dared attend college.
 Im old and spent now, but that does not mean the pain is less. Some wounds time cant heal
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:30 am
 
My husband received a email from a Witness cousin of his, telling him about all the changes that they were told about in the Sunday meeting last week and how she worded it was “Jehovah’s chariot is going to hyper speed”.
I had told my husband about the changes before the meeting and told him how I knew was by going to this web site. So, he knew ahead of time. He also knew about how the special pioneers were losing their position and all the Bethelites being sent home too. So, he knew about the down sizing of the special pioneers and Bethelites but the rank and file (like his cousin) are not privy to that information.
So, his cousin thinks that Jehovah is speeding up the work but all these special pioneers and Bethelites are being sent home and the congregations (like his cousin) know nothing about the down sizing.
That is a demotion on the Bethelites and special pioneers, but will the rank and file know why they are being sent home and demoted? No they won’t.
That will be be very embarrassing to those people, especially when they can’t go around and advertise why they were being demoted and sent home.
If the Governing Body had told the entire association of Jehovah’s Witnesses about all the demotions and lay-offs, it would be very embarrassing to the Governing Body and it would show the whole association of “brothers” that the work isn’t speeding up but slowing down instead, so what the Governing Body did was to keep it quiet and only tell the special pioneers and Bethelites, so as not to embarrass themselves and let the special pioneers and Bethelites be embarrassed instead. They are cowards and will throw even the most devoted of their followers under the bus to save their own skins.
If these people have to move to get a new place to live, it could be quite expensive as most places in the United States charge $700 to $1,000 for a one bedroom apartment and you need a lot of money for the first month’s rent and they want double the first month’s rent so it’s at least $2,000 to find an apartment in the United States now in order to move. The money these people are getting is only the monthly money they usually receive. I think they’d have to quit pioneering right away and get a job so that by the end of the year, they’d have enough to move. I also get the anger that special pioneer expresses in his letter that he did not get an education so now it will be really hard for him to find employment.
Just last week, my 38 year old daughter who is a regular pioneer and working full-time also, was crying her eyes out because of how much she hates her job so I suggested she look for another job and she cried that she can’t because she doesn’t have the education to find a better job. She can’t quit her job to go to school either so she’s stuck. I suggested she give up pioneering and she got mad at me and said “that is the only thing that makes me happy”. What can I say????
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 12:20 pm
 
Anonymous, that’s the most agonizing part of this whole thing. By the time we realize it’s all a load of lies, the cult has wrapped so many tentacles around us that we’d have to practically dismember ourselves to be fully free of it– but even then, we’d have to deal with the anguish of having lost the family and friends we love who are still in its grasp. I hate the no-good-options nature of all of this. I hope the Org does keep ‘speeding up’ in making decisions that are ultimately going to bring about its own demise, so that your family members and others can see the real truth for themselves.
Reply
 
 
 Anonymous says:

 October 12, 2015 at 2:20 pm
 
I wish I could wave a magic wand and make everything better, but I’m not codependent–it is what it is. As dismal as the situation here seems, and as miserable as she thinks the job makes her feel (oh, what a good counselor or therapist can do to aid in thrashing out the source of feelings), there are countless examples (including Me 3.0) who have added skills (evening classes do wonders) while working, pioneering and raising family. Secular individuals do this under the heading of “reinventing oneself”–bankruptcy, divorce, death, downsizing, other life-changing events [STRESS] can cause a reinventing of self and purpose, not to exclude belief structure. This too shall pass, or that which does not annihilate us, makes us stronger.
I believe for those of us who survived(surviving) our experience with Watchtower, Inc, we are stronger, better, faster–more nimble and agile. That younger special pioneer may find herself going back to college, gaining a marketable set of skills, married and raising children well-rooted in Biblical beliefs, but with a self-determined future rather than living for Warwick and positioned to make contributions at the local, national and/or global level. The more mature special pioneer may well land as a “fixture” in a Watchtower congregation with honor and praise, or like many “out there” turn their experience into lessons for the Christians wanting to know “what’s up with those Witnesses”.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:53 pm
 
That’s an optimistic outlook. I hope you’re right. Personally, I’ve managed to un-invent myself, but I haven’t mustered up the energy to reinvent myself yet. But hopefully I’m the exception, rather than the rule. Oh well, somebody has to represent the “living in a van down by the river” contingent. There, now I’M whining to you TOO! You’re getting it from all directions, lol..
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:33 am
 
Isn’t it ironic that those who were possibly considered weak, materialistic and worldly are the very ones that the Watchtower turns to to help bail them out of the financial difficulties because of THEIR overspending, and those that the Watchtower considered spiritual are thrown on the scrap heap . . . Keep warm and fed and don’t forget to do your hours. . . Words fail.
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:39 am
 
Great job Kyle.
 Thank you for your hard work on that article for all our benefit.
Reply
 
 
 Jake says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:03 am
 
Perhaps a person with a legal mind/training could give an answer to this principle, it would be much appreciated.
 Recently in the UK’s High Court a victim of child abuse, abused by a Jehovah’s Witness, was awarded £270’000 in compensation. The abuser was considered to be an employee (though a volunteer) of the Watchtower Society, therefore the Society was held responsible.
 Could not that same principle be applied to employment law?
It is an outrage that the Watchtower Society when finished with its volunteers expects the state (to whom it pays no taxes to) to pick up the bill through our taxes. Could the Watchtower be held legally responsible to pay for I.N. Contributions, health insurance and pension plans and is this a possible reason for the recent closures in light of the recent legal standing mentioned in the High Court?
Apologies for the poor English.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:49 am
 
@Jake .. ALWAYS ENJOY your Comments!! Always Well Reasoned Out & Logical!
 You Don’t need to Apologise for your English ! It is 100 times better than MANY of the JW Supporters who criticise this site.
 I Couldn’t Care Less someone’s BAD English or Grammar if they are KIND , REASONABLE & REALLY APPRECIATES This Site!
 BUT I Critcise Someone’s English & Grammar IF THEY JUST COME ONTO THIS SITE to PRAISE The 7 GREEDY MEN in BROOKLYN who Like Rutherford & Beth SARIM …. More Concerned with LUXURIOUS BUILDINGS for the 7 PYGMIES than for the Bethel Workers & Special Pioneers & District Overseers!! …. JESUS Had NOWHERE to LAY HIS HEAD!! ..
 APOSTLE PAUL … Supposedly One of the First Governing Body Members … WORKED as A TENTMAKER So as NOT to be a BURDEN on the Brothers !! He Travelled in DISGUSTING CONDITIONs on OLD WOODEN SHIPS which were at the Mercy of the Elements.., SHIPWRECKED on Occasions ; Attacked by Highwaymen,STONED & LEFT for DEAD!
 The ONLY WAY RUTHERFORD was STONED was with BOTTLES of WHISKEY !!! & He DROVE Around in EXPENSIVE CADILLACS !!!
 The GB are Like the Pharisees & other RIP OFF Religions !!
Reply
 
 
 David says:

 October 14, 2015 at 5:59 am
 
Hi Jake,
I am a lawyer in Australia and I presume, without having looked at the facts of the case, that the Watchtower was held vicariously liable for the actions of the rank and file member, if that member was held to be an employee. At least that is what the legal principle in Australia would be and our system is based on the British Common Law system. Vicarious liability is essentially an extension of liability to a controlled entity or a subordinate, so for example, employer/employee, but a Canadian decision has also held that Vicarious Liability’s ambit stretches to religion/priest.
It is an interesting argument because if you could establish the fact that they are in some manner of speaking “employees” or subordinates under the control of the WTBS, pursuant to the definition of control, not the control we think of, then you could ostensibly bring an action against the WTBS for a whole range of breaches of employment law principles, and their vicarious liability, noting their failure to adequately provide training, education etc. As a faded witness and now burgeoning atheist, I would like nothing more than to see the WTBS pay through the nose and support these people who have given their lives on a false premise and forgone, in many cases, the opportunity for higher education.
Reply
 
 
 
 MimiLove says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:12 am
 
My extremely devout elderly mother (who lives with me) wanted to know why I was so irritated taking her to the meeting. I simply stated that I was angry at the society for getting rid of district overseers & special pioneers just be cause they didn’t want to pay their insurance or living expenses anymore. I told her they are now elderly and uneducated and can’t get a job or a home. I also told her that in the US that is considered abuse of the elderly. She didn’t have any reply to me…which was interesting because when I told her I was angry in the past on how they handled pedophiles she said I need to trust in Jehovah.
I wish there was someway to contact all the DO’s and special pioneers that are elderly (55 or older) and do a class action lawsuit.
Reply
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:12 am
 
…. my Master is delaying ……
….. by their fruits you will know them ….
Some of us have not suffered as they will.
 I feel a sort of survivors shame.
Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:23 am
 
Construction, “sacred service”, increases. Spiritual food decreases. Love of neighbor decreases. A physical activity is more important than a spiritual activity.
Reply
 
 
 Gaz says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:23 am
 
Like a rolling stone. Bob Dylan.
Reply
 
 
 Gaz says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:30 am
 
And I don’t mean to be rude but I lost count of how many times I was looked down on by Jehovahs Witnesses.
Reply
 
 
 Gaz says:

 October 12, 2015 at 7:10 am
 
It’s accepted how we have, including you, been treated. No one is any better than anyone else and I love that. For those who are self righteous and look down on lordship
 Sympathy for the Devil, Rolling Stones.
Reply
 
 
 David says:

 October 12, 2015 at 7:24 am
 
Today with the internet there are many resources to prevent investing an entire existence in supporting myths and proclaiming speculations as truths. If people love God and the neighbour there are many ways to do it without joining extreme denominations.
I am touched for example by people that do volunteering work to entertain children in hospitals.http://www.childrens.org.au/ways-to-give/volunteer/entertainment/
This is more satisfying then standing next to a cart formally dressed engaging with people once every 10 hours if you are lucky.
Reply
 
 
 Edward D'Agostino says:

 October 12, 2015 at 7:42 am
 
Thank you “Cedar” for the information you researched and sharing it with us. I became a JW, baptized at Brooklyn in 1971. I got out of the WT around 1978 but for many years I was in “limbo” till 1997. Then I bought my 1st computer and finally I found enough evidence to prove to myself my decision to abandon the JW cult, it
 was the right one. Today I don’t have any religion. I don’t believe that the Judeo Christian religion is true. “Religion is the opium of the people” (Karl Marx)
 The WT definitely is downsizing and I wish will disappear from the face of the earth, together with bloody Islam. The rest, oh well, people need crutches to find any explanation of our existence.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:33 am
 
@ Edward D’Agostino
 My post-JW examination of religion has taken me to the same place – I feel the same way about religion; I share your sentiments about religion. I too am now religionless but do believe that a Supreme Being is responsible for creating the universe.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:33 am
 
Same boat, only still hold to the Bible. If your ever looking for the http://www.JWfacts.com version of Islam please visit http://www.falseislam.org
Reply
 
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 October 12, 2015 at 7:42 am
 
Me 3.0,
 I appreciate your comment and the insights you shared.
The GB as individuals may not be brilliant men, but they were smart enough to surround themselves with brilliant men. They have access to people who understand business such as the rebranding they are attempting. They have access to people who understand how to manipulate the masses through various means, including intellectual intimidation and the constant platitudes and bromides designed to make everyone feel good but are really empty and valueless. Their treatment of these faithful ones is unconscionable as is so many “rulings” they have made throughout the years that have cost lives and families in all sense of the word.
They have been preaching Armageddon since about 1884 and time and again have proven wrong. They are holding out a carrot that has come and gone. My own personal studies have convinced me that Jesus began ruling in 33 ce and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ce was Armageddon. Further studies have led me to some “interesting” conclusions. I don’t blame God one bit for the false teachings of men. After much struggling with my conclusions and trying to wrap my head around them, I am finally free and at peace with my own beliefs. I continue in a role that I have been at for over 40 yrs for the sake of family (except I’m an informal, Bible only person for ministry) but one of these days my boldness may take over and I might spell it out for them. In the meantime I take refuge in this site. I learn from others and I find strength in finding so many who share the same struggles and joys. Some who comment have a wonderful sense of humor that brings a smile, we need that. Okay I’ve had my say, haha. For any reading this, have a wonderful day!
Reply
 
 
 wifibandit says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
JW.ORG is busy spending money on http://imgur.com/EWxGIv3
Reply
 
 dee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 12:05 pm
 
They are busy spending money on the Warwick retirement residence for the 7 GB lunatics while the laid of Special Pioneers & Bethelites have no such cushy retirement to look forward to……..these unfortunate ones may even have to continue working well into their retirement years. SAD.
Reply
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 12, 2015 at 7:07 pm
 
Wifi, they make me sick. I think it was you posting Tony3 at this summer convention. Saying he was getting to choose his lodgings at Warwick, but not in Heavean, or some such drivel. I guess he and “Potato Head” Jackson will just have to discuss that with Christ Jesus when they see him.
Reply
 
 
 
 ScotWm says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:25 am
 
REGARDING: “… downgrading to regular pioneer status to milk these poor people for more of their free time.”
The Governing Body hasn’t given up on its quest to ruin lives. In the Watchtower’s October 2015 Monthly Program, a pair of witness DINKS (Double Income, No Kids) are shown working their jobs, paying their mortgage and barely having time to attend meetings and go out in field service.
This couple is inspired by another couple that has simplified their lives and become full time pioneers. The DINKS decide that the road to happiness requires making a few sacrifices in order to accomplish this simplification.
They quit their jobs, sell all of their possessions and sell their house. It’s possible that they donated all of the money to the Watchtower. Since they aren’t shown selling their car, I assume they were living in it. Then they start their own business — Washing Windows!
Finally, the young couple gets a letter from the Watchtower and they end up in what looks like Africa, peddling Watchtower publications. It is doubtful that these two will be Special Pioneers for long, now that all the money is going to the Warwick palace and grounds.
Reply
 
 wifibandit says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:02 am
 
Here is that part of the video: https://youtu.be/4d_N_kCO1Mk?t=29m49s
Reply
 
 ScotWm says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:12 pm
 
Thanks for the link to the video. I’ll bet that section with the window washing couple was made before all of the Bethel layoffs.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:27 am
 
Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral and EVERYONE WHO LOVES AND PRACICES LYING. from their mickeymouse silverabomination bible .That i may add they have taken out scripture which no one should do.verses 18 ,19 same chapter. Ezekiel chapter 7 the whole chapter!! This is not christendom this is those oh so holy guardians of the silver sword it will be turned upon them as they have self appointed greedy individuals to carry that name.ruthless
Reply
 
 
 Yvette says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:54 am
 
Sounds like a future group lawsuit to me
Reply
 
 
 Stefan says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:29 am
 
I left the organisation almost a year ago. It was just after the announcements of ‘mortgage-reliefs’, no debts towards the society, but instead giving at least the same amount of money every month, including a fair amount of all the savings. As a conditioned ‘organisational thinker’, I accepted it and highlighted only the seemingly positive aspects of the whole arrangement. “Wow what a loving arrangements, the brothers are relieving us from all debts!”. Of course, this twisted version was the main talk in the congregation. I can clearly remember my doubts that came up: “is this a loving arrangement? In the end we spend much more money”. But as a trained witness you quickly push that thought away…
Several months later I withdrew myself from the congregation. Not at all because of these issues, but because I am gay and I always tried to fight it away as something that just shouldn’t be there. It made me tired, sad, depressed and lonely. It’s a looong story that I can share with anyone who wishes in the future. I served as a regular pioneer, as an elder, served where the need is greater, visited MTS. After all, keeping busy was the way to keep up the fight right? Well………No………..it wasn’t.
To cut a long story short, I wrote a letter of resignation and left still thinking it was ‘the truth’. It wasn’t until later that I educated myself with sites like these and found out the real story behind everything. I was shocked initially, but right now it helps me to put my new life into (positive) perspective even quicker. I wasn’t trying to find information to justify myself, but bumping upon this information was a lifesaver and prevented me to go into even more mental conflict. As you’ll probably understand I was kind of tired of all the mental conflicts ;)…
I’m now married to a beautiful husband, who has been a loving, much needed support for me. I feel great, feel even closer to God than in the past! And oh boy, do I wish this for all the many zealous workers in the organisation that are still trapped into that mental pattern. I sincerely hope that this information will wake up even more people and will prevent more hurt. I sympathise with the many ‘special pioneers’ who are put off just like that and the many sincere, hard working Bethelites who will be tossed out without the loving care that they really need.
But I know from experience that if they wake up and change their thinking and rewire their mental pattern, they also will be able to create a beautiful, fulfilling life for themselves and their loved ones!
Thank you so much for this much needed information! I will use it whenever/wherever possible to help people to free themselves and build up a beautiful life in this beautiful “system of things”! Because that’s how I choose to view life now: beautiful! :)
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:25 pm
 
Very well put, Stefan. Congratulations on getting free of this life-wasting cult. Thanks for your positivity. And it’s nice to here a story with a happy ending– or rather, a happy new beginning!
Reply
 
 
 EverydayExplorer says:

 October 13, 2015 at 3:46 pm
 
Stefan, loving respect to you. So glad to read your post. I believe you are going to help more people than you might think with your bravery.
Adventure onwards, Stefan, with your authentic beloved one, and your authentic beloved life!
Reply
 
 
 
 San Diego says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:46 am
 
I guess in hindsight this shouldn’t come as a surprise, since it wasn’t that long ago that they changed missionary school to only include Witnesses they were already housing and paying for, like special pioneers and bethelites. I haven’t kept up with that, but I’m guessing they’ve changed that again since then, if they’re getting rid of s.p. and a bunch of bethelites. My guess is it won’t be much longer before they get did of missionaries too. And along with that start selling off the Kingdom Halls they took control of and direct Witnesses to start meeting in houses again. Or maybe they’ll swallow their pride and start having commercial advertising on the Watchtower and Awake.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:44 am
 
That would be great, San Diego.
Watchtower– Brought to you by: Beezlebubb’s Home Lobotomy Kit™. Want to keep believing you have the Truth? You’re gonna need our product!
Reply
 
 San Diego says:

 October 12, 2015 at 2:04 pm
 
Haha yup. Of course they’d have to start watering down their condemnation of business dealings with “worldly people”, just like they watered down their condemnation of the U.N. after becoming an NGO. One important bethel elder once talked about how just one small ad from Coke could pay for all their printing, but they were relying on Jehovah. If they did started using ads, it would be interesting to see what kind of spin they would put on that. The real question is, which would they capitulate to first: Advertising or bankruptcy?
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:37 pm
 
I don’t think Coke would be interested in advertising in a Watchtower, San Diego. You see, there is a fundamental difference between Coke and the Org. What is that, you may ask? Well… wait for it… “Coke is the REAL THING!”
Boom! That just happened… (Unless that reference was lost on everybody reading it, in which case, I guess it didn’t happen, lol.)
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:18 am
 
Also do you remember “Coke adds life”. ruthlee

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 7:41 am
 
Brilliant, Ruthlee!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:45 am
 
I really hope that anyone visiting this site that has been a victim of this organization before christfollowers agenda will contribute in exposing these wicked men.
 This is a copy of the flat template letter these poor people are getting in Spanish.
http://m.imgur.com/4j4x8yh
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
Watchtower March 15,1969 p. 171:
“Many schools now have student counsellors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them ‘brainwash’ you with the Devil’s propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this wworld. The world has very little time left. ANY ‘FUTURE’ THIS WORLD OFFERS IS NO FUTURE!”
I feel very sorry for those laid off Special Pioneers and Bethelites who were misled by this crap and who will now have to fend for themselves.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:30 am
 
Watching Star Wars episode 3, oh the irony.
Reply
 
 
 Kaput says:

 October 12, 2015 at 12:01 pm
 
FUTURE in 1969 dont make me LAUGH??? – (If you believe in a Creator and the Bible) – This corporation INSULTS the Creator by trying to work out when the end will come: King James Bible: “Matthew 24:36 – But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
My humble understanding of this passage is – be the person that your heart tells you to be – use all your faculties (including your brain) to follow all the Godly principles in your life without the need to work to a specific date or time – you would therefore a good EDUCATION, a regular INCOME and would have the ABILITY to SHARE your KNOWLEDGE, WEALTH and EXPERIENCE with your BROTHERS and SISTERS because if you are working to a DATE you will FAIL because only the Creator knows when the end will come.
Reply
 
 ProphetMoeshe says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:44 pm
 
@Kaput, they are very aware of that passage, but use it as a foil for deflating the Trinity’s definition of the nature of divinity thus it never registers as a defeat on “just around the corner” or “just ahead of us” urgency rousing speech. I think this verse was the best observation I learned regarding the human viewpoint basis for Watchtower beliefs and stop-thought. Some never thought beyond using the verse for counterpointing the Trinity, or if they did were chastised by the prequel to the GB 1.0 (beta-GB 0.2 w/Franz and Knorr?) not to worry their “pretty little heads over such trivial verses” [patronizing pat on head].
Reply
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 12, 2015 at 12:35 pm
 
Ah, but don’t forget this little pearl of wisdom:
“If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.” Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
I first saw that on JWfacts. It is truly a classic!
Reply
 
 Kaput says:

 October 12, 2015 at 12:49 pm
 
Yes JB thanks for the pearl, I was 2 years old THEN – feeling slightly older NOW at 48…LOL
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:21 am
 
I was 5 and it was my first year of school. Still waiting……..rl
Reply
 
 Wanderer says:

 October 15, 2015 at 12:36 pm
 
I am a similar age. I distinctly remember at about 4 years of age my parents telling me not to worry about going to school because Armageddon would be here by then. Then when I was about 10 not to worry about high school because we would be in the new system before I would be in high school. Then of course when I started at my menial job not to worry about dating because Armageddon will be any day now. Once I was married I was told maybe we should wait to have children in the new system because this wicked system is at its end, we are in the last days of the generation of 1914.
 I am so glad we are not telling the same lies and putting that incredible pressure onto to our kids!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:11 pm
 
I can’t wait for the rebuttal of the October broadcast. A particular piece of propaganda is an ex soccer player who quit soccer to serve Jehovah/organization more fully. He ended up in bethel. One statement he made is HILARIOUS in light of this letter and the bethel layoffs(past and future). “In the world you have no guarantees they use you up, but with Jehovah he guarantees everything”.
I couldn’t watch anymore it was a freaking disgusting piece of propaganda.
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:19 pm
 
Most common reasons for people getting the sack–
1 business is closing down.
2 The need for a particular type of work has ceased
 or been reduced.
3 a new process is being introduced.
4 a decline in business .
Other reasons may apply but always it’s the job or
 the role that’s redundant, people are the casualties.
 Business has no sentiment, even less so when it
 fronts as a religion. The gb, has no legal obligation
 to provide severance benefits, and it never fails to
 to exploit that privilege to the limit. They send their
 warm Christian love, but don’t bother looking for
 the cheque.
Reply
 
 
 Pascal says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:20 pm
 
Kyle, I especially liked your forceful comment quoted here in part,”…If Jehovah truly is backing the Watchtower organization, it therefore stands to reason that he is not even a mediocre employer…” He is not an employer at all in the every sense of the word.
According to businessdictionary.com, an employer is defined as “a legal entity that controls and directs a servant or worker under an express or implied contract of employment and pays (or is obligated to pay) him or her salary or wages in compensation”.
From that definition, is that Jehovah and/or Watchtower a good employer? By no means.
Reply
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:48 pm
 
Perhaps the congregation elders could vote some monies to put stranded bethel,DO,SP on a parity with that of redundant staff of the respective countries?
 When loyalty defiles conscience, it should be questioned.
Reply
 
 
 Scrubmaster says:

 October 12, 2015 at 4:52 pm
 
I just thought of something. Isn’t going to be ironic when most of the workers left at Bethel have college degrees? I mean from a technology and professional stand point, IT Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Financial planner and others have degrees for the most part.
Reply
 
 Tony Morris says:

 October 12, 2015 at 6:39 pm
 
Your comment made me sad because my poor brother has been in bethel for 15 years and you are right, they will probably only keep those with a degree (my brother has none). My mum and dad are CO’s in England and that is his only family so where can he go? I have told him I could help him but he doesn’t speak to me after I DA’ed.
Reply
 
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:25 pm
 
@Scrubmaster .. YOU are SO RIGHT … IRONIC .. I said this to an Elder that how come when we had a Letter read to the congregation asking for Qualified ARCHITECTS,CIVIL ENGINEERS,STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS,SURVEYORS,Etc to work at New HQ at CHELMSFORD here in England , that ALL THESE JOBS NEED …. DEGREES before you can Apply to Trained for ? IRONIC INDEED !!!
Reply
 
 dee says:

 October 13, 2015 at 9:24 am
 
Ironic indeed! What if all JWs did take the GB’s advice to not pursue higher education seriously, they certainly would find themselves in a spot of bother when they need the free labour of persons with degrees………all that money they would have to pay to worldly people to do the work.
The only way pursuing higher education is right is if the GB can get your free labour to enrich themselves.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:42 pm
 
God’s holy spirit seems to be very confused. On the one hand it is directing the GB to tell us to not to pursue higher education.
On the other hand it is directing the GB to recruit JWs with degrees for their various projects.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 October 12, 2015 at 8:39 pm
 
Here in Australia High school, goes to grade 12, in the past you could leave in Grade 10, & just get whats called a Junior Certificate, thats what i got, that was enough to get a low paying job, if you went onto grade 12 & got a senior education it was classed as higher education, so a lot of people out their only got the junior, thank you god that the law changed & now its mandatory to go all the way unless you got a job, so both my kids have got senior education, My wife got a senior and has been able to have great jobs for the last 3 decades, the training i got, sorry to say this, at the meetings, being an elder & bible basher , set me up in my job as a salesman, a number of years ago i purchased the business, was secretly ridiculed by many, & now in a position of doing very well for ourselves, & in the future will make a massive return on the business & live happily everafter, oh yeah not to mention providing a roof & a car for my now deceased parents, we are also supporting my 2 children in their endeavors, ME 3.0, you made a great point about using the skills we have picked up, & i agree, but many are in La La land & can’t function, i see them here, home schooled, dont worry the end is here soon, play the long game people, & they wonder why i don’t want to go to meetings anymore!!
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 12, 2015 at 10:18 pm
 
@Wip it . SUCH A BRILLIANT ANSWER & COMMENT… I do Hope Many come to the Same Conclusion as You !
Reply
 
 
 

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← 62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 
Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
avatar 
Posted on October 12, 2015

Laid-off special pioneers are getting a rough deal from Watchtower
Laid-off special pioneers are getting a rough deal from Watchtower

This website recently reported growing resentment among bethelites over the constant downsizing that’s taking place as the Governing Body hoards its dwindling resources in order to complete the Warwick project.
Further evidence of this resentment was re-posted on Reddit from a German-speaking website for former Jehovah’s Witnesses just last week.
In the open letter (posted here), someone claiming to have been a special pioneer of nearly 30 years laments how he was used up and spit out by an organization that claims to care for him.
Let me first state for the record that this letter cannot be verified because it is anonymous, but given the extensive downsizing Watchtower has been undergoing the world over, a letter like this can hardly be considered implausible.
The full letter is below. Keep in mind this letter has been translated from German, so I’ve cleaned up some of the language for the sake of clarity:

Dear Brothers.
 This is my [response] to the way you dismissed me of the Special pioneer service [effective the first of] January 2016. The [fitting] “loving words” cannot reduce my disappointment.
 As you mentioned, I experienced a lot of joy and went through a lot of challenges. I was willing to set the kingdom interests first and to [make] sacrifices to serve Jehovah, wherever you thought it is necessary.
 In the belief that the end is near and that the organization is [led] by Jehovah’s spirit, I started pioneering in my youth. I [turned down getting] a good education in the hope that the organization needs me. Jehovah is the best employer, as I was told.
 And now you decided that my special pioneer service will end [on the first of] January 2016. I ask myself what changed that you do not need my service anymore after nearly 30 years?
 I am astonished that you advise me to serve as an normal pioneer in the future. If the end is near, why is my service as [a special pioneer] not necessary anymore? Is it the money? Am I too expensive for the organization?
 Do you need the money, which is donated to support the preaching work for other activities? For example for building projects, like Warwick or temple farms? I really feel betrayed and exploited.
 It seems to be the case that some buildings projects are more important for the “slave” than humans, who try to help others. Your offer to release me from my duty to reach the monthly hours goal, that I can do necessary things like looking for a job or for living, is really generous. Until January you want to pay my allowance as usual.
 Really generous of you! To be honest it feels like a hit in my face or a kick in my ass.
 I have no financial back up in my age and no education. I can probably not expect any support from my family, as they warned me [about getting into special pioneering].
 As you mentioned, I did not expect this decision and I do not believe anymore that the Governing Body or the Branch Office are really valuing the work I did.
 Your encouragement to trust at Jehovah sounds like derision. As I thought Jehovah provides for his servants through his organization. You do not want to lose my service and my experience, but you do not want to spend a single dollar for it anymore.
 How else could I interpret this sentence? Quote: “In view of the valuable experience you have gained in your ministry, we hope your circumstances will allow you to engage in the regular pioneering”… “In that way, your full time service will not be interrupted. As a regular pioneer, you may choose the congregation in which you want to serve; however, we hope that, if possible, you can stay in your current assignment. If you move to another location, please talk to the circuit overseer or write to the Service Department to know where you might be more useful.”
I truly understood now, what is important for Jehovah`s organization: the only things that are counting, are efficiency and the gain for the organization, not the people.
 Disappointed greetings.
 Your Brother
 (I do not want to tell you my name until I am not longer depending on you).
It is safe to assume that this man’s cause for agitation is far from unique, and that countless other bethelites and special pioneers are also being shown the door by Watchtower and left to fend for themselves.
The Witnesses who obeyed the prohibition on higher education and gave up their prospect of university or college education to serve in a full time capacity are now effectively being punished for their faith in Watchtower. Now they are abandoned —middle-aged, unskilled, unemployed and homeless — with not a cent to their name to show for the decades they spent loyally peddling cult propaganda.
Apparently, those who are being handed their pink slips are not walking away quietly as the Governing Body would wish, grateful for the privilege of serving a deluded group of cult leaders in New York. The realization that they wasted the best years of their life may be beginning to sink in.
Furthermore, a question should be forming in their minds, and in the minds of other thinking Witnesses who are beginning to see through the facade the Governing Body has set up to attempt to hide their financial woes: If the end of the system is near, nearer than ever before, shouldn’t the worldwide work of kingdom preaching be expanding rather than diminishing?
The best employer?
In the letter, the brother states that he was told Jehovah is the best employer. Those words ring hollow when you consider that employers, at the very least, pay their employees, not milk them of free labor for decades and then leave them on their own to starve.
Today, the best employers offer full time health and dental coverage, long and short term disability, paid holidays, 401(k) plans, conference and training budgets, above average salaries, and more. In the event downsizing occurs, employees are given severance packages, and in most countries, qualify for unemployment, so they can cover their basic expenses while trying to find a new job.
Full time servants who are dismissed by Watchtower receive none of those benefits, and instead are given three months to find a job and move out. And without any actual work experience or education that most hiring managers require, the rejected witnesses are in perhaps the worst position imaginable to find employment.
If Jehovah truly is backing the Watchtower organization, it therefore stands to reason that he is not even a mediocre employer.
Rubbing salt and lemon in the wounds
It appears the men Watchtower appointed to carry out the layoffs are not sensitive to the desperate situation they have placed full time servants in. As the letter quoted:
“In view of the valuable experience you have gained in your ministry, we hope your circumstances will allow you to engage in the regular pioneering”… “In that way, your full time service will not be interrupted. As a regular pioneer, you may choose the congregation in which you want to serve; however, we hope that, if possible, you can stay in your current assignment. If you move to another location, please talk to the circuit overseer or write to the Service Department to know where you might be more useful.”
Not only is the Governing Body deserting special pioneers so they can save money for their Warwick fantasy, they are downgrading them to regular pioneer status and still attempting to milk these poor people for more of their free time.
Call me materialistic, but putting myself in their shoes, my main concern would not be “How can I be more useful to this organization?” but “How do I find a job that pays enough to provide food and shelter?” How these slave masters can dare to control where their fired servants live and wring out every last drop from them is beyond me.
Keep warm and well fed
One can’t help but be again reminded of the scripture in James 2:15-17: “Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”
If this letter is any indication, this anonymous special pioneer will sadly not be the only full time Watchtower volunteer left to fend for himself by an organization he trusted to reward him for his years of service.
 
kyle-racki-signature
 
 
 
 
 
 
Further reading…
◾Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing


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170 Responses to Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing

← Older Comments
 
 San Diego says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:12 pm
 
So of course the Governing Body is behind all this, but I would wonder how the WT board of directors views what’s going on here. After all, they have the real legal authority, from what I understand the GB members gave up all legal authority over the organization years ago, because they didn’t want to be bothered with all the legal paperwork that went along with the job. What happens if the board wakes up and decides the GB has gone rogue or become too much of a liability? I’m sure they could give the GB the boot any time they saw fit, kind of like when Rutherford kicked out the 4 men who weren’t legally part of the board. Besides, if the government were to take action against the organization for all the child abuse scandals, it would be the board who would legally responsible, and I have no doubt the GB members would let them take the fall for it. I think it would be in the best interests of the board of directors to get rid of the GB now before things get any worse. I seriously doubt they want to be held responsible for all the legal problems the GB has introduced into the religion.
Reply
 
 Mark-O says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:46 pm
 
Good point. In reality the “governing body” (1944) and then the “Governing Body” (1976), and then the Governing Body of Bethel Dictators (1976) is really just an experiment—that has now failed.
If the board had any cajones they would send the GB out on hot rails to the dumpster—the “GB 1944-1976 Experiment” has utterly failed.
And worse is it can be researched the WTBTS is worth BILLIONS, they are far from “going broke”, and from what I hear they had a “JW Broadcasting” watershed year, almost a billion in “donations”. The “JW Media” Commercial paid off nicely.
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 13, 2015 at 1:13 am
 
@Mark o. I LIKE YOUR STYLE!! Yes Governing Body of DICTATORS .. & yes a very subtle change of small letters ‘ governing body’ in 1944 to CAPITALISING in 1976 to Governing Body’ in the JW Literature … Quite Fascinating looking back at Older Literature !
 BUT WHERE IN SCRIPTURE is There ANY JUSTIFICATION For This ELEVATING these 7 FALLIBLE MEN of Brooklyn ??? …. NONE!!
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 Kat says:

 October 12, 2015 at 9:33 pm
 
I think there will be pressure on the congregations to help them out, lodgings, work and so on.
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 Mark-O says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:50 pm
 
“In that way, your full time service will not be interrupted. As a regular pioneer, you may choose the congregation in which you want to serve; however, we hope that, if possible, you can stay in your current assignment. If you move to another location, please talk to the circuit overseer or write to the Service Department to know where you might be more useful.”
So “As a regular pioneer, you may choose the congregation in which you want to serve”
Yet “If you move to another location, please talk to the circuit overseer or write to the Service Department to know where you might be more useful.”
So the guy could say “send me to the Beverly Hills of Bel-air JW Congregation”, but the “service desk” must be consulted first.
What a joke.
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 Reader says:

 October 12, 2015 at 11:41 pm
 
In the UK maybe a ‘Duty of Care’ action or even slavery legislation, on a no-win-no-fee basis.
 The R&F will have to provide for these domestics because the ‘FDS’ is not.
 Or maybe the money is all gone?
Reply
 
 
 Mama Joy says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:35 am
 
I guess they’re all apostates now for speaking ill of “Jehovah’s Organization” that downsized them for a nicer building.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:45 pm
 
This is for all of those ousted that wont learn there lesson from all this.



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 Robert67 says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:46 pm
 
*their
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 Mama Joy says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:39 am
 
Legally, if the business they work for promises them something, then they must follow through on that promise.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 8:23 am
 
I hope they all land as softly as possible (the love-motivated ones who deserve to) upon being ejected from their current status in such a cold way. But, more than anything, I hope that MANY of them see this as the “last straw”, and no matter how insurmountable the challenge of starting a new life away from this cult may seem, they go with that option. I hope many of them find this website– as a new source of sound advice, unconditional compassion and moral support for them.
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 Brother Morris says:

 October 13, 2015 at 9:35 am
 
All of this is lies from the mentally deranged apostates working as sub-contractors for Satan and his little Devils. Here are some more apostate lies:
1) Growth has slowed to 0%. This is a lie spread by our competitors to make it seem like Jehovah is not blessing all these new changes that are made under inspiration [and psychedelic drugs]. The fact that 200k “worldly” people are born everyday means we have much growth remaining in this cult……………oh my god so sorry. Freudian slip. I mean in “GODS ONLY ORGANIZATION.” Let me remind you doubters that every SINGLE DAY we baptize anywhere between 0 and 891,021 so it is clear that Jehovah must be blessing this growth!
2) Selling off of dozens of bethel branches, assembly halls and kingdom halls is our way of cost cutting. Another lie spread by mentally ill apostates to make it seem like Jehovah’s only organization is not growing and running out of money. Jehovah himself sends scrolls of freshly printed $$$$Benjamins$$$$ directly to our door step. Of course you can and MUST donate everything you can to us including your last will and testament… because JEHOVAH loves a CHEERFUL GIVER, brothers! Did I mention it is TAX DEDUCTIBLE? Yes brothers! SO the more money you give us the more money you will save on your taxes! YES!
3)Special Pioneers are getting the ax. Another evil, evil lie! Why would we do that to those who have given up their whole lives to serve us……………..ooooooooopsie daisy I mean, to serve JEHOVAH, only to be axed like worthless fools! After all we need them to find new recruits and money donors! Since you lower rank “publishers” are slacking off in your fund raising…………. Oh MY GOD, sorry again! I mean slacking off in your MINISTRY, the brunt of the work is done by special PIONEERS working in THIRD WORLD CESSPOOLS where people lack an education and the INTERNET (Satan’s most evil TOOL!) so we need them. The demise of the special pioneer is greatly exaggerated.
4)Overlapping generations doctrine is being questioned by the Bethel family at morning worship. Yet another terrible, evil, mentally diseased, apostate lie! Certainly our most loyal workers would NEVER question any of our teachings, especially when it is called NEW LIGHT! Our NEW LIGHT is getting so bright, it almost looks like a new star is forming in our solar system! Please note: due to cost cutting, all NEW LIGHT will now be limited to energy efficient CFL light only.
5)We misquote scripture, scholars and experts to fit our own agenda. What a terrible lie those mentally deranged apostates say! Just because we pull scriptures out of our asses and then apply it to ourselves so you STAND STILL, LISTEN AND OBEY what we say because WE ARE THE FAITHFUL SLAVE does not mean we are not being directed by HOLY SPIRITS. As in PLURAL. Please note: Do not pay ANY attention to any of the facts surrounding Jesus’ “inspection” of our long dead ancestors in 1918 who used astrology, the pyramids of Giza, and experiments with ALCHEMY to arrive at those dates. Further, please pay no attention to EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE that PROVES Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E. Since WE SAY that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E means that it must BE SO. Any research further into this subject will be immediately REPORTED as APOSTASY and an S1-VA form will be filled out by the local elders. So don’t EVEN THINK about using GOOGLE OR ENCYCLOPEDIAS OR ANCIENT TEXTS, all of WHICH are SATAN’S TOOLS, to research this matter! 607 B.C.E is the date and that is the end of this discussion! Now LISTEN AND OBEY!
Your “Christian” Brothers,
 The Evil and Discreet Slave
Reply
 
 Brother Esplane says:

 October 13, 2015 at 10:08 am
 
Now, now Anthonyyy, Tonyyyy, tone, tone, tone, tone. There is no need for such a detailed explanation exnay on the spiritsney. We must focus on the overlapping time warp continuom and let the “friends” concentrate on those windows.
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 Brother Lettus says:

 October 13, 2015 at 10:55 am
 
Alright yous two cut it out. If we’re ever going to have the complete worship that belongs to God from these sheeple, we have to work together. We have to get our names out there in light, enough of this Discreet nonsense. What say you, I start reading them comics to the kidz and teach them to shut their traps about any..stuff. Get me a list of our best executioners and ill start setting up the speaker line up in those conventions next year. Aw crud, Randy Tony is fired up again, he musta seen some tight pants, quick let him smell the cheese, the cheese!
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:04 am
 
OH what joy and raptures my bretheren. I see now caleb is the new messiah and sophie his helpmeet. Its all so clear..Wait they are telling me more donations not needed Hummmm there is more coming through the small gods channel …here it is NO repeat NO donations ever again. No more money is needed they have quite enough for about one thousand years. Isn’t that a miracle! It’s the new message sheeple no more money grubbing. Take a short holiday all of ye faithful … teehee ruthless
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 Doc Obvious says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:02 am
 
Jehovah’s Witnesses buy Fishkill apartments. Web Site: poughkeepsie journal article. Not just any apartment. A “Luxury Apartment”. I always like religious organizations telling their people to keep their eye simple, when they themselves cannot do it. Hypocrites! Hypocrites!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:10 am
 
On that note ill post this letter again from one of Rutherfords right hand men. He couldn’t stomach the hipocracy either.
Regarding Rutherford’s alcoholism, that was well-known at Bethel during his term as President of the WTS. People who lived during that era have frequently written about it. During prohibition Rutherford wrote an article in the WT which was a scathing attack on the Satanic U.S. Government for passing the law on prohibition. Below is a letter from W.F. Salter who left the society in 1937 in disgust over Rutherford’s antics.
You will note that he mentioned expensive booze being smuggled from Candada by the CASE for Rutherford’s personal use.
Here’s the letter Salter wrote:
P.O. Box no. 404
 Toronto, Canada
 April 1, 1937
Hon. J.F. Rutherford
 4140 Braeburn Road
 Kensington Heights,
 San Diego, California
I wrote you on January 25th embodying an article which I believe proved by the Scriptures that our Lord has not returned and that the saints have not yet been resurrected. That Christ has not returned is proven clearly by His statement in Matthew 24 wherein, having outlined all the things to occur at the end of the age, including the great tribulation, He said: “When ye see ALL these things know that He is nigh even at the door.” Verse 33, Diaglott; and margin King James version. Mark well the Master’s words for He says even after ye see all these things He would not be present, but near, even at the door. Well did He warn His true followers not to be deceived by any man saying He was present when He was not?
I also suggested, that “the battle of that great day of God Almighty” is not necessarily “the battle Of God Almighty” but merely a mighty and final battle of Satan’s visible forces among themselves, in which God would put it into their hearts to destroy churchianity. The time of the battle is the day of God Almighty, just as one might say in the day of Shakespeare, and that would in no sense prove that God was going to fight any more than it would prove Shakespeare was going to fight. God’s act of destruction of Satan’s forces will be beyond Armageddon.
Two years ago last summer you made the statement to me and another that you had bluffed all your life. I believe that was one of the truest statements you ever made and I am now calling your bluff, and challenge you to answer the article above referred to point by point and prove from the Scriptures that Armageddon is the battle of God Almighty.
The premise of all the teachings of the Society’s publications which might be spoken of as spiritual teaching i.e., teachings which are supposed to be for the Lord’s people, is that Christ has returned and is at His temple for judgment. The burden of the Society’s message to the world is that God at Armageddon will destroy all the forces of Satan. If Christ has not returned, and I now believe He has not, and if Armageddon is not God’s battle, and I believe it is not, the light in that connection has come to us not through the WATCHTOWER but from another source, which, proves that the WATCHTOWER is not the channel through which God is feeding His people and not only so but that all the teachings presented therein since 1918 and based on these false premises are wrong!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:14 am
 
Continued
So much for doctrine: now a word regarding what I feel constrained to state concerning the corruption otherwise of the Society.
As the scales by the Lord’s grace, have fallen from my eyes I have been astounded to see how blinded I have been to your actions, through a superstition that the WATCHTOWER was the Lord’s channel of meat in due season for the household of faith and that you as President of the Society were God’s chief servant amongst His people, and that you being responsible we should be submissive to whatsoever you required done, foolishly thinking that I had no responsibility in the matter and that anything you did that was wrong, or that I did as ordered by you, the Lord would overrule. It was with this thought in mind that I, at your orders would purchase cases of whiskey at $60.00 a case, and cases of brandy and other liquors, to say nothing of untold cases of beer. A bottle or two of liquor would not do; it was for THE PRESIDENT and nothing was too good for THE PRESIDENT. He was heaven’s favorite, why should not he have everything that would gratify his desires for comfort. True, I had a part therein for I partook of your hospitality, or shall I say the Society’s hospitality for it was the Society’s money but I partook, as above stated, being blinded with the idea the THE PRESIDENT was in charge and therefore responsible and not I. Today I see that the thought was absolutely wrong and that the squandering of the Society’s money in that respect was a mis-appropriation of funds, and I should have taken no part therein whatsoever. I confess my wrong before the friends and before the Lord and ask their forgiveness and His.
Often as I thought about this extravagance and waste and then thought of the lot of the pioneers I was puzzled, but my conscience was lulled by the belief that the Lord was using you to serve His cause and people and therefore I did not and dared not say anything that I thought would cause the friends to lose confidence in you as a servant of the Lord. True, I have humorously said to those whom I thought were our mutual friends things regarding your idiosyncrasies that all MEN between friends say one of another, just as you have said of me, which things I know have been traitorously (Matthew 24:10, John 16:1,2) reported to you not along out of their setting but so out of their spirit that none who wanted to know the truth would recognize them as the original statements, and before my God I can state I have never to my knowledge done anything intentionally to injure you, the work of the Society, or its interests, in my life. In that betrayal you joined hands – not that I mind in point of fact I thank God that He permitted it and assure you I would do good to any of the conspirators had I the opportunity.
While recognizing your position as President of the corporation I have always reserved the right to think. It has been well said, “A man who cannot think is an idiot, a man who won’t think is a fool, and a man who is afraid to think is a coward.” I absolutely refuse to have any person do my thinking for me. I could not do otherwise and be faithful to my God. I could not be a Russellite and be faithful to God; I could not be a Rutherfordite and be faithful to God; I could not be a Channelite and be faithful to God; and I could not be a Dawnite or any other Ite and be faithful to God. To be such, to my understanding of the Scriptures, would mean one was defiled with women (organizations) and subject to their will and not the will of God. (Revelation 14:4) “He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully (And not the deductions and sophistries of men” no matter what they may claim for themselves or their office – or organization with which they happen to be associated,) “Behold. I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord…and cause My people to err by their lies, and by the lightness.” Jeremiah 23:28,42 . True, all these Ites or Iarns have some truth: some more, some less. Otherwise they could not deceive the people. It is with that very truth, together with the sophistries of men, that Satan blinds men; in fact the more truth they have when wrongfully used, the more deceptive they are. Each claim to speak with authority, some much more dogmatically than others. Paul well counsels, “Beware any lest man spoil your through philosophy.” – Col. 2:8.
The squandering of the Society’s money on liquor was only one thing I had cause to wonder over; there were other things. I could not help but contrast with the lot of the pioneers the luxury that you surrounded yourself with and the comfort that I enjoyed, and among these luxuries I cannot refrain from mentioning the following:
1. Now one but two 16-cylinder cars, one in California and one in New York. One would not suffice for THE PRESIDENT nor would a 6 cylinder car be big enough for THE PRESIDENT, but a 4 would do for a pioneer, or a bicycle or a hand-sleigh, or trudging along without any vehicle at all.
2. Your New York apartment, easily worth a rental of $10,000.00 a year. And its luxurious furnishings.
3. Your palatial residence on Staten Island, camouflaged as essential to the broadcasting station WBBR.
4. As though that residence were not sufficient, a further small place of seclusion in the woods of Staten Island where you can go and rest your weary body while the pioneers and others trudge from door to door.
5. Your further abode at San Diego, for which you yourself told me you were offered $75,000.00, but of course it could not be sold and the funds used to help the pioneers because it was deeded to David – what hypocrisy!
6. Commodious and expensive quarters in Magdeburg, Germany, for the convenience of THE PRESIDENT, to say nothing of the provision made for your comfort in London.
As what is your mental attitude toward all this? Why you glory in it and brazenly advertise it to the friends. “Who dares find fault therewith? Am I not THE PRESIDENT?” Yes, you glory in it, glorying in your shame.
Nothing is too good for THE PRESIDENT. He must have every comfort and every consideration, but he feels very sympathetic and so tenderly disposed toward the “dear pioneers.” Words are easy, but actions speak louder than words and I cannot imagine a more striking illustration, even as between the clergy class and laity, than between yourself and the pioneers as referred to be Jesus words when he said: “For they (the hypocrites) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their little fingers…Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye devour widows houses…ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte. And love…the chief seats in the synagogues…and to be called by men, “Rabbi Rabbi” (some distinctive name). Truly the pioneers and others have had burdens heaped upon them that you would not move with one of your fingers. Truly the widows have been robbed at your suggestion, or rather I should say command, for your command to the friends is, “Take their last penny for a book; they need it more than bread.” What a spirit! And yet the friends submit to it. While a few will take the penny and as Paul says, “glory in their shame,” how the vast majority hate it, but feel they must obey – God is speaking. What sacrilege! What blasphemy! What trafficking in the name of the Heavenly Father! The friends have served you faithfully, they have unknowingly been your servants, robbed by you of everything even the word of God and his precious promises which you have made null and void by your vain babblings; trudging on day by day, wondering but without a murmur. My what faithfulness, and what a taskmaster! I feel sure many will have their eyes opened, for 7,000, at least at heart have not bowed the knee to Baal even though they have advertised your name more than that of God Almighty. I would that you had gone from door to door as the pioneers and others have, and you would then know what you are talking about.
I could go on at much length about the things I know considering your personal conduct and the contrast between yourself and the pioneers, but I choose not. My sole purpose in outlining my personal experience with you is with the earnest hope of awakening the friends to the fallacy of putting confidence in man above God’s word, or idolizing an office and putting confidence in that office above God’s word. A Christian must learn that to honor God he must put faith in God’s word and God’s word alone, making it his shield and his buckler and not a man or body of men or corporation, no matter what claim is made for that man, body of men or corporation, for soon we get into the paths of human reasoning and that invariably leads us to disaster as the wrecks all along the pathway of the Gospel Age bear witness to. One organization after another Satan has overreached and brought into subjection of his will. The clergy class being overreached by Satan tried to establish the Kingdom before its time and convert the world. Of course, they claimed they were not doing it but God was. So today Satan has overreached the Society and has caused the friends through the WATCHTOWER to believe the time has come to establish the Kingdom and gather together the great multitude before the time, claiming of course that they are not doing it but that God is. But God is not and they are therefore not getting nowhere as all honest brethren are now admitting and are asking the questions, “if the millions who will never die, constitute the great multitude, are being gathered, where are they? For they certainly are not coming in our town or city.” You know and I know, all who read the reports intelligently know, that despite all our stupendous effort – there are less than 50,000 associated with the Society in its work! If for the next ten years there should become associated an average of 50,000 a year, at the end of that time there would then only be 550,000. How long would it take at that rate to gather the “millions who would never die,” and if such must take their stand before Armageddon, as you teach, how far away is Armageddon? Well, someone will say, “Well, if that be true what are we doing now?” The Bible answers the question: “We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not brought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the earth fallen.” Isaiah 26:18. “Not everyone that saith unto me,’ Lord, Lord’ shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” – Matthew 7:21-23. The Roman Catholic Church is doing a great work but in the name of the Roman Catholic Church. Likewise the Protestant systems are doing a great work in their names, and the Salvation Army is doing a great work in its name, but the Society is doing it in His most holy name (Jehovah). “In fact, Lord, we’re so busy with works we have hardly time to open our Bibles, let alone study them. You see, Lord we have our YEAR BOOK to study now and that tells of our wonderful works, and our PRESIDENT, too, is very busy writing books. And oh, Lord, he is so courageous and his faith in Thee so great that he gets behind four walls, or surrounds himself literally with an armed bodyguard, and bellows away his dreams (Jeremiah 23:31,82) [sic] and sends us out from door to door to face the enemy while he goes from ‘drink to drink,’ and tells us if we don’t we are going to be destroyed. But don’t misunderstand us Lord, we don’t do it from fear or for reward, but because of our great love for you, and therefore will not be disappointed if we get no reward, but our hope is we will spared through Armageddon. Our PRESIDENT, Lord, is really a very important man. Of course he says he is not even though he thinks he is, but then that you and it is not for us to reason why; ours is but to do and die; and ‘we love to have it so.’ Of course he says when he speaks personally it might not be correct to say he is speaking for you, but when he speaks as PRESIDENT or through the WATCHTOWER or books then you speak; is it not wonderful!”
In fact these publications, he says, contain your commands and we must obey. My, what a difference a little man-made office or a little paper and ink make. How authoritative one then becomes and just on a par with the Catholic priest who says bread and wine is just bread and wine but he blesses it, oh my, it is the actual body and blood of Christ!! How alike Mr. Rutherford (excuse me, I should have said ‘Judge’) is to Mr. Ratti, for does not Mr. Ratti say when he speaks personally it is nothing but when he speaks as the Pope, he speaks infallibly. “Oh,” some will say, “the Roman Catholic Church is the counterfeit of the true and the Society is the true church.” But the question might be asked is it not more reasonable to conclude that the Society is the counterfeit of the Roman Catholic Church even though the Catholic Church is not the true church, do not appear to be the work of the same potter? Note, the spirit of both: pride, arrogance, intolerance, bombast, to say nothing of the spirit of judging. Furthermore, Paul’s statement in 2nd Thessalonians 2:4,8 seems to have application to both organizations. These verses read: “…so, that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (When we speak officially, God speaks commands. Beware!)…And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall annihilate with the brightness of his coming!”
Now a word regarding the financial progress of the Society. You inform the friends and the public that the books and booklets are placed with the public at cost – they surely are and more!! You well know that the price to the pioneers until recently covered all costs including all appropriate overhead charges and even now the loss is only slight on some items, while on the other hand the price to the companies and public nets the Society at least 100%! What is this 100% if it is not profit? Poor gullible friends. How they believe everything you tell them!!! Where do they think the millions of dollars invested in buildings, machinery, stock, etc, at Brooklyn, Magdeburg, London, Toronto and other places, to say nothing of your own dwellings, etc, come from if not from profit on the books? You know and I know that the gain the Canadian Office alone during the past few years was a hundred thousand dollars. And at the time I was relieved of my duties there was not only a large sum in the bank as customary but also over $25,000.00 in cash was lying in the Society’s vaults at 40 Irwin Avenue and had for years, which could be used for the needs of the President or those whom he might designate in case of an international emergency – and the dear pioneers? Well, of course they could go hungry. Poor gullible friends!! My, were we not blind, and how blind the friends still are! And yet the annual reports tell of our great losses and how it is hoped the Lord will make it up. Well, it is said, “figures don’t lie, but liars do figure.”
From the article “Upon Our Lord’s Return” which shows it is a future event, which the vast majority of the friends now have, and which others may have upon application, they can choose between a “thus saith the Lord” as found therein and your bombast, bluff, and follow which they choose. Furthermore, from the above testimony, which is true before the Lord as you know it to be, the friends can determine whom you are serving. Many no doubt will decide, “I will remain with the Society until THE PRESIDENT himself through the WATCHTOWER tells me I must go.” Poor, deluded children, may God have pity upon them is my earnest prayer. They ultimately will be forced by the logic of events to realize their mistake even as I was forced to, blindest of the blind.
It seems strange that after our experiences of 1914 and 1925 we should still fail to draw a clear cut line of demarcations between deduction and a “thus saith the Lord”, and go on dogmatizing regarding the Lord’s presence, dogmatizing about the Lord being at His temple, and dogmatizing concerning what Armageddon will bring about. But there are “none so blind as those who won’t see” and they will go on prophesying false dreams until events themselves prove the folly thereof. And this, even though such false teachings bring dishonor to God and His word, for what is prone to dishonor God’s word more in the minds of people than testimony that is made with a declaration that it is based upon God’s word when that testimony is found to be false. One does well to take heed to Deuteronomy 18:21, 22, which reads: “If thou say in thine heart how shall we know the word, which the Lord hath spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the things follow not nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoke, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptously; though shalt not be afraid of him.” (An outstanding example, our nonsense concerning what God was going to do in the year 1925.) And again I quote Jeremiah 23:28-82 [sic] “He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully…Behold, I am against them that prophecy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness.”
Up until the time I received the article “Upon Our Lord’s Return”, above referred to, I believe the Society was the Lord’s organization. That article shook my belief therein. I wrote you to see if the article could be answered. It has not been answered. I cannot be answered because it is the truth, and I now no longer believe the Society is the Lord’s channel of truth or that you are a servant of the Lord, whatever else you might be. As God is against the Society (Jeremiah 23:98-82) [sic] and every other adulterous woman that defiles men and makes them puppets or “yes men”, so must I be. I was active in the service work up to and including the “Jehovah of Hosts” testimony period and then was forced to the conclusion that such service was not only not of God but dishonoring to His Word and Name. Why, one may ask? I answer: because the message contained in the publications is largely based upon the false premise that our Lord is present, the He is at His Temple and that God at Armageddon will destroy Satan’s organization and usher in His Kingdom in power and glory upon the earth. The message is spoken presumptously and is based upon philosophy or deduction of man and not upon a “thus saith the Lord.” In other words, it is what the Lord speaks of as “false dreams” and He say He is against such and therefore I must be. Was the Lord please with our false dream concerning 1925 and the zeal of the friends in that connection? He was not. Was it a lie. It was. Did we learn any lesson therefrom and humble ourselves before the Lord? We did not but went right on presumptuously heralding broadcast our further dreams in His name. Will He be any more pleased this time with our dream and zeal than he was in 1925? He will not, and therefore it behooves a faithful child of God to courageously take a stand and “come out of her that he be not a partaker of her sins.”
But someone may ask, “if the Society is not doing the Lords work, what is the Lords work?” The answer to this question must stand until a later date. Suffice to say now that just as one required to see in a measure at least the corruption of Churchianity and be dissatisfied therewith before he could accept what truth the Society had, so likewise one must see in a measure at least the corruption of the Society and how far it has departed from a “thus saith the Lords” before he can receive the answer to that question. In the meantime, I would suggest that any who read this letter should read carefully and prayerfully 1st Corinthians 18 and Philippians 4:8, pausing after each sentence to think on what he has read.
While hardly related to the matter at hand, I could not help but think as I read a recent copy of the GOLDEN AGE of Paul’s word in Phil 4:8 which reads: “Finally brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue and if there be any praise, THINK OF THESE THINGS.” I wonder how one could read such blood-curling stuff and obscene language as the GOLDEN AGE contains and at the same time carry out Paul’s admonition. But I can hear some scoffer saying, “Oh that was only Paul and he said it long before the Lord came to his temple in 1918. Since then we are taught to be real “He” men, real “Christians” that know how to use strong language.
In all my twenty years association with you I always had a kindly feeling of love toward you in the Lord and have in sincerity always closed my letters to you giving expression thereto. Even upon this occasion I cannot refrain from saying that I would to God that you would awaken to your position and make full confession before Him, for I have no ill will toward you whatsoever; I pity you and would do you good if I could. Remember, God is a God of loving kindness and tender mercy; His mercy endureth forever!
As I survey the whole matter I am reminded of Jesus words in John: “This is the condemnation that (cometh upon you) lit is come into the world. And me (you) loved darkness rather than light because their (your) works were evil”, not truth but lies, false dreams, vain babblings. “Am I therefore you enemy because I tell you the truth?” Galatians 4:16
Sincerely,
W.F. Salter
Reply
 
 Pickled brain says:

 October 13, 2015 at 2:47 pm
 
@Robert67 . Mr Walter Salters Letter is a TERRIFYING PARALLEL of What is HAPPENING … TODAY !! .., The SIMILARITIES Are FRIGHTENING .
 What is UNSETTLING is the USE of the WORD…., ‘ FRIENDS’ by Walter Salter & HOW OFTEN it is USED NOW on TV.JW.ORG !!! Instead of ‘ Brothers & Sisters’
The 7 EVIL MEN of BROOKLYN DEFINITELY Just Like Rutherford are MANIPULATING Poor Innocent Brothers & Sisters for ‘ FINANCIAL PROFIT’!!!
DISGUSTING & WICKED !!!!!
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 Meredith J says:

 October 13, 2015 at 3:28 pm
 
Thank you Robert67. What a corrupt empire? And Rutherford allowed all those Witnesses to be slaughtered by Hitler. How long can this pathetic charade be allowed to go on? Even though this letter was written many decades ago it is being read now on this website. The expose goes on. Amazing stuff. If that is not a miracle in itself I don’t know what is.
The question we will have to ask ourselves is “How long will God keep putting up with this lying bunch of fakes?”

 
 
 Donald duck says:

 October 14, 2015 at 12:31 am
 
Yes, and it was posted twice…

 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 14, 2015 at 8:11 am
 
Ill be posting this and other need to know material at least once a week. Here is another must see for anyone else still on the fence and please use the tools at http://www.jwfacts.com to verify everything shown.


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 dee says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:14 pm
 
Don’t forget former governing body member Ray Franz’s extremely very eye opening book: “Crisis of Conscience”. This was certainly one of the things that helped me with my decision to disassociate:http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/franz01.pdf

 
 
 
 
 
 
 jason says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:48 am
 
Very well written! And soo predictable how Watchtower views people as a expendable commodity …hope they can be somehow held accountable.
Reply
 
 
 ScotWm says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:56 am
 
How could the Watchtower, with its multi-billion dollar real estate empire, become cash poor? It could be that the Watchtower has had some more of its assets frozen by the courts in expectation of large child sex abuse judgments, as was done in this case:
“On June 20th 2012 Judge Robert D. McGuinnes ruled that the $1 billion in real estate assets of the Watch Tower Society are to be frozen pending the outcome of the Watchtower Society’s appeal against the judgment of $21 million in punitive damages in the Candace Conti case. The outcome of the appeal is estimated to take up two years.”
http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/sexual-child-abuse/1billion-in-real-estate-assets-of-jehovahs-witnesses-frozen-until-sexual-abuse-case-is-solved/
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:20 pm
 
Word has it that their hedge fund hasn’t been performing as well as expected.
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:29 pm
 
You would think that with the Holy Spirit on your side, it would be damm near insider trading
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:40 pm
 
and if you want to be technical it is the equivalent of playing the Lottery which according to their literature gets your eyes melted in Armagedon.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Iron rod says:

 October 13, 2015 at 12:55 pm
 
JESUS!
http://new-world-government.blogspot.com.
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 rob says:

 October 13, 2015 at 2:50 pm
 
Unfortunately many of the witnesses do not care to delve into any type of research which would discredit the “mothership” and are very entrenched in the routine and do not want to give up the social club – until something happens to them personally.
Now that the special pioneers are being “downsized and laid off” they are being hit personally and this will be their awakening to the fact that the witness religion is a corporation that will downsize and liquidate assets to protect itself. It does not care about people as they are simply viewed as overhead and costly to maintain.
I do get angry at myself for allowing myself to be fooled and manipulated for many years by a religion/corporation that did not know me and cared nothing for me and really only cared about its own comforts and survival.
Unfortunately I think that the corporation will survive but in a much leaner fashion, with less adherents and the powers that be will be very comfortable for many years to come in their luxury resort in upstate New York.
The GB were very smart to remove themselves as directors of the corporation and therefore remove themselves from any liability to do with the corporation. The directors of the corporation are also probably heavily insured to insulate themselves as well.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 13, 2015 at 2:58 pm
 
“The Board of Directors (the GB) of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society have come to a unanimous corporate decision. We need to downsize and get rid of our workers in order to reevaluate our needs as a board. Before the whole thing crumbles we need to get our set up in Warwick completed so that we can live in comfort till the day the Lord carries us up.
All these ex-workers can find another place to roost while we are first on the queue for the stairway to heaven.” Had to throw that in JB Reezner. *Of course this is just an imaginary statement.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:15 pm
 
I think you’re absolutely right on the mark, Meredith J. Let’s grab all the cash we can while there are still some Witnesses actually willing to give us their money and belongings, and let’s not spend any more money on ANYTHING that doesn’t profit us financially. After that, we can sit back in our lakeside palace watching the ducks swim by.
Honestly, although I need to let it go, my embarrassment for having devoted my life to the cult that these wretched men lead keeps growing with every new story of their improprieties, greed and heartlessness. May we all live to see them crash and burn.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 October 14, 2015 at 12:40 pm
 
At least the churches whom the GB has labelled as being false and Satanic, most if not all have some kind of outreach ministry where they use their donations to help the poor and needy.
On the other hand, all of the rank & file JW’s donations go into the running of a real estate and publishing business from which the GB profits.
I used to be so conflicted when I used to read WT & Awake magazines about how wrong the social gospel is (e.g. I recall a WT about ‘rice Christians’) because only God’s kingdom can bring about a long term solution to poverty & as JWs we shouldn’t get involved in such charity work as doing so shows that we are not looking forward to God’s kingdom as the longterm solution, and we will only be patching up Satan’s system of things which is doomed for destruction and our involvement would only be helping Satan’s system to prosper and the persons being helped would only become interested in God for what they can get.
What BS – what if all the churches were to take this view? All those poor, starving people should just be left alone to suffer and die because we would just be patching up Satan’s system of things and helping it to prosper if we were to get involved in charity work?
The condemnation of the social gospel was just the GB’s way of ‘pulling the wool over our eyes’ so we wouldn’t wonder about what they are doing with our contributions if they are not using it for charity work.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:23 pm
 
I remember that attitude too and the article. I remember we had bushfires in our area and the Salvation Army would arrive with all kinds of things for the firies to eat and lots of willing workers there to distribute it. And the brothers used to criticise their efforts. I never ever liked that.
When there was a crisis their efforts were pathetic. We had a bushfire once that was almost knocking on our door. I remember an elder driving past in his car to go and help another brother and sister down the road. He stayed with them as I was spraying the house with water. He never once just stopped and asked if we needed any help. No, he did not like us. It made me sick to my stomach to see the favoritism with help that constantly was going on with everything. We should have left then.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 14, 2015 at 7:28 pm
 
Our talk this Sunday was about not wasting time with charities or throwing our money away on beggars, whom the speaker assured us are faking it most of the time. I cannot picture Jesus calling someone homeless and in serious need a faker. He went on to elaborate on how real charity would be to teach him the “good news”. This organization/corporation has fallen so far from the tree. I can’t help but recall one of Jesus final lessons as he left the temple for the last time. They are withering and embodying Jesus description of false faith.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 October 15, 2015 at 7:16 am
 
“Don’t wastenyour time with charity” typical. I remember many saying that very statement. But most assuredly they have no qualms about using those very charities should THEY need them.
 Make a wish foundation is an example. A terminally ill witness child in my area was given an all expenses paid trip (along with her parents) to anywhere she wanted to go. She chose bethel of all places, go figure. Did the witness parents reject the charity offered to them? HELL NO!

 
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 October 14, 2015 at 8:10 pm
 
Amen, Sister. My thoughts as well.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Prodigal son says:

 October 13, 2015 at 6:08 pm
 
The last time I went to a assembly, about a year and a half ago. I notice the lack of younger or even middle aged there. Most attending were maybe 60 up. So the demise of this cult is now sitting in kingdom halls living on fixed incomes.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 October 15, 2015 at 6:24 am
 
Im not so sure….there are quite a few young ones…they are trapped into the lie as well and espouse the saying…’best life ever’…over and over again…including my own children…ok so maybe not as many as when I was young but it seems the ones still in are totally brainwashed and I cringe when I see them showing the sinister Caleb and Sophia videos to little ones from just a few months old repeatedly…constantly…its mind control at its most adept…Its a scary cult.
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 October 15, 2015 at 7:17 am
 
@Idontknowwhattodo, I remember saying that over and over again that it was the best life ever. I don’t know where my brain was. It certainly wasn’t attached to my head.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 October 15, 2015 at 7:47 am
 
Those videos are disgusting to the point of being unwatchable, Idontknowhatodo. And my experience is the same as yours regarding young ones. I have an acquaintance who just got reinstated after being df’d at around 18. He dutifully endured the year-or-so period of penitence and seems happy to be back in the fold.
Prodigal son’s comment is definitely good news, but there are still many young Witnesses out there (there certainly are in my area). A cult can just as easily hold sway over the mind of a young person as it can the mind of someone older.
Although websites like this one are just a few clicks away, the perceived danger of looking at “apostate” sites can be a powerful one, as we all know. Even for myself, I had to first conclude in my own mind that I didn’t have the truth before I ever even dared to read Ray Franz’ book or look at JWfacts (and then eventually JWsurvey, which is now home base).
But youngsters keep becoming more sophisticated in their thinking, and the number of them curious enough to at least see what others have to say about their religion is surely growing. I’d also guess that there are cases where school kids see the bizarre, horribly awkward restrictions JW kids have to impose on themselves at school, and they come back the next day with some printed pages saying, “Here’z about a thousand different reasons why you shouldn’t believe what you believe.” I hope so.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 KaKaJones says:

 October 13, 2015 at 10:08 pm
 
Today, October 13, 2015 talk number two was, What is Apostasy? In the talk they warned against aimlessly wondering on the internet. I feel this talk was given because the society is worried. It’s funny the way the org keeps doing things that continue to alienate it’s members.
Reply
 
 
 Kat says:

 October 13, 2015 at 11:34 pm
 
The more they warn without say why and what it is they are being accused and stand up to the accusations more JW with start to think.
They are bringing themselves down with every video like this, many are already doubting and will want answers, just a few googles and they will have their answers.
Reply
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 14, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
As I always like to say, “You can’t lie to the internet!”
The Watchtower was growing slowly but steadily up until the internet age started to really take off. Now their only growth is from the 3rd world lands where internet is a luxury and education amounts to reading a story out of the Mickey Mouse club. Again, anyone with half a brain can see that the Witchtower’s lies don’t hold water! IT’S ALL LIES!
Now being the tech savvy guy I am, I should have known better myself that I should ALWAYS do research on EVERYTHING before getting locked into a contract. It took me — years to wake up! It makes me so angry thinking about all the time I wasted.
Thank “YHWH” for the internet!
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 October 14, 2015 at 2:23 am
 
Would it not be better to be humble before ones own brothers who also are weakened by inherent sin being forgiven and also being forgiving, than to insist on this “only channel” thing telling all to wait on Jehovah? Is the most high a dog so that any prophet may drag him by a lead?
 Very well; tis’ only Jehovah who may judge them!
 To re-phrase Festus; To Jehovah they have appealed to Jehovah it should go.
 Let him without sin cast the first stone.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 October 14, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
“Let him without sin cast the first stone.”
Remember. They removed this from their ‘Silver Sword” edition. It’s much too convicting of the organization, the 7 little tyrants, and their disfellowshiping ways.
Reply
 
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 14, 2015 at 3:15 am
 
Anybody seen this gem? Sign it! Pass it on!
https://www.change.org/p/united-states-attorney-general-investigate-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovah-s-witnesses-re-child-sexual-abuse
Think about it. Australia. England. United States. European Union. All files claims against the Watchtower.
Reply
 
 EverydayExplorer says:

 October 14, 2015 at 3:55 am
 
Thanks, Actigall Ur. Have now signed.
We in the UK are looking forward to the results of the still ongoing UK Charity Commission’s investigation into the Watchtower’s barbaric ‘safeguarding’ policies.
Plus it seems extremely likely that the Watchtower will be investigated in the ongoing four-year UK Independent Inquiry, headed by Judge Lowell Goddard, which officially began its work this August.
The exposure is becoming relentless. Watchtower need to start designating funds for redress.
Reply
 
 
 MimiLove says:

 October 14, 2015 at 6:14 am
 
Thanks Actigall Ur, I have signed as well.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 14, 2015 at 8:14 am
 
Signed,and please continue to share the link incase interested parties are off site for a few days and miss it.
Reply
 
 
 Actigall Ur says:

 October 14, 2015 at 9:38 am
 
Thanks everyone! You guys can contact me if you want more details. My user name- actigallur at activist.com
“The harvest is great, but the workers are few!” 😉
Reply
 
 
 RetiredLE says:

 October 14, 2015 at 9:51 am
 
Check this one out! http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/21919076#21919076
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 14, 2015 at 1:33 pm
 
That was great. Let’s hope it wakes a few more up. Funny the story after was about Playboy Magazine.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee says:

 October 15, 2015 at 10:32 am
 
Saw this in another forum:
 In November 2011 the Toronto Star reported that Nineteen of Canada’s top grossing charities refuse to release their full audited financial statements to the public. The #Watchtower#JehovahsWitnesses were on this list.
“There were some downright inexplicable aspects to many charities, but nothing more concerning than the lack of transparency from the 19 which refused to provide financial information” said Greg Thomson “If a charity is not transparent, you may as well reconsider donating.”http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/11/15/audit_of_charities_encounters_resistance.html
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 October 15, 2015 at 11:51 am
 
, the new Reasoning book pg19 states that Jesus Christ himself uses the Faithful (7Samurai) slave to explain the fullfilment of bible prophecy and to help us live in accordance with bible principles.
 They’ve washed their hands of their numerous false prophecies claiming a middle men position on these matters and gone on to throw Christ under the bus for their arrogance. I really hope all of these Bethelites and Special pioneers live out the words in Nehemiah 13:10
” I also found out that the portions of the Levites had not been given them, so that the Levites and the singers who did the work had gone off, each to his own field. ”
This organization was supposed to look out for those that held the front in the preaching work. They’ve traded you in for Rolexes, TV studios, rape pay outs and a lake front Waco complex. The donations we gave were specifically for you (the ones that would do what we couldnt in the preaching work) and your needs.
These false religious leaders are paying the price of trying to cover for rapist pedophiles. If they had left criminal matters in the hands of the authorities, the only one paying anything would have been the criminal. Instead you chose to protect the vile danger at meeting in order to maintain an image of chastity and innocence that does not exist in the organization. Obstructing justice is going to have a hefty price.
Again to all these poor souls, get out from her if you don’t want to share in her sins and consequences.
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 October 15, 2015 at 12:22 pm
 
Robert, did they get a new Reasoning book? I haven’t heard anything about that.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 October 15, 2015 at 3:16 pm
 
The GB has to try to maintain an image of chastity and innocence as they would like to pretend that child molestation does not occur in Jehovah’s organization. It only occurs in the false, Satanic religions of Babylon the Great. Jehovah’s organization is so superior to these other religions, so child molestation does not occur there.
This is all a part of the “us” and “them” cult control tactic – everyone else is bad and only Jehovah’s organization is good, so have nothing to do with other religions.
While we are on the topic of child molestation:
 Dear governing body, where are the two witnesses in the following situation?
Deuteronomy 22:25 – 27:
“But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die.
 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death. For just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case.
 When he found her in the field, THE ENGAGED GIRL CRIED OUT, BUT THERE WAS NO ONE TO SAVE HER.”
Dear governing body: “……THE ENGAGED GIRL CRIED OUT, BUT THERE WAS NO ONE TO SAVE HER” so where were the two witnesses in this situation???!!!
Did I hear you say ‘none’? It seems you are finally getting the point! A person doesn’t call two other persons to watch him while he rapes someone……………unless of course they are planning on having group sex. LOL!
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 15, 2015 at 1:21 pm
 
I have just been reading the scripture from my King James bible of 2 Thessolonians 2:3 and it says “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so thatis as God sitteth in the temple of god, shewing himself that he is God.”
I have noticed that the word “apostasy” is not used, instead “there come a falling away”. What that means I am not sure but there is nothing there about “man of lawlessness” which is what the Watchtower always harped on about. Remember this bible, the King James was the one the original Bible Students first used for many years.
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 October 15, 2015 at 1:28 pm
 
@Robert67
“The donations we gave were specifically for you (the ones that would do what we couldnt in the preaching work) and your needs.”
This comment you made is so true and the money was supposed to be for the ones who were preaching and it appears to me that the funds have been misappropriated. How do the GB get away with this?
I believe that there will be a day of reckoning.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous4 says:

 October 15, 2015 at 4:21 pm
 
I have googled individual congregations on my computer. Many are listed on charity sites, as charities or charitable organizations. I suppose every religion is a registered charity. But at least mainstream religions do real charity, like homeless shelters, schools, or soup kitchens, eg. The Salvation Army. The Watchtower Society only serves itself, especially the top dogs. But they justify it by saying they are helping the community. It is the perfect cover for their cultish behavior.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 October 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm
 
She mentioned that it was like ‘The Hotel California’ where you’re welcome to stay but you are never allowed to leave. I have to make a retraction and say that she said “I will have to report this” and not “you”. But it meant the same thing anyway. This is for my previous comment that is being moderated.
Reply
 
 
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13 Responses to Videos

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
 
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
 
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
 
 
 Luke says:

 October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
 
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
 cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
 will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
 
 
 Fred says:

 November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
 
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
 
 
 Palma says:

 February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
 
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
 I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
 What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
 
 
 Idris says:

 March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
 
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
 Keep up the good work
Reply
 
 
 Julia Orwell says:

 July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
 
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
 I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
 
 
 Kirtley W. Burggraf says:

 March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
 
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
 
 
 Alone in MD says:

 March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
 
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
 
 
 pj wilcox says:

 July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
 
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
 
 
 Adrian says:

 September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
 
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
 
 
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