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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
234 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Dblaron42 says:
October 16, 2015 at 12:50 pm
Outstanding work as always Lloyd. Much thanks to the agents on the inside of this heinous borginization.
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Donald duck says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:00 pm
I’m still in but I would love to use this to get kicked off from having to go from door to door. I’m inactive, but would love to be excused… Also, what’s a masculine hair style…short? Who decides what’s masculine and what isn’t? Getting more nit picky by the day…
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Chiafade says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:08 pm
That’s the thing the decision as to whats a masculine hairstyle or even what counts as a what they call “the metro sexual look” is COMPLETELY arbitrary. Each congregation will have their own interpretation of how that can be applied locally.
If that’s not behavior control I don’t know what is.
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Caseyoc says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:30 pm
I’m thoroughly confused at what the metrosexual style even is. I mean, 2004 much, GB? How tight is too tight? What *exactly* is too masculine or too feminine? There’s just too much left open to interpretation, and you’re going to get those totalitarian places where a woman with a haircut above her shoulders is going to be counseled. It’s bonkers.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:37 pm
@Donald duck .. SHORT BACK & SIDES ???
I THINK TONY MORRIS Should COUNSEL Our NOW REIGNING KING…, Mr CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL About BEARDS??!
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:05 am
In ancient times many cultures obligated the slave class to have short cropped hair in order to show the difference between free folk and slave. It’s a domination move, the equivalent of jumping on your back biting your neck while they give it to you. They get away with it because most, out of sheer ignorance of scripture will not ignore their amendments to the bible.
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ProphetMoeshe says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:08 pm
I would be furious, except I don’t care, but what door-to-door ministry? All they have to do now is stand on the street and look pretty beside a fold-up display of literature outside the JW.org boutique store. Reminds me of way back when you would walk through an airport and Hare Krishna types would stand there with flowers.
This mandate is still wide open for interpretation–metrosexual style? Is that including the bodybuilder who has a tailored fit? or the svelte lad wearing a slim fit?
Portly, overweight types only, please; and skinny guys hide that physique under a suit that swallows you up and makes you look like a toothpick in a sea of wool, or cheap polyester blend.
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Chiafade says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:15 pm
“Portly overweight guys only please” that’s hilarious. I know what you mean. I’m surprised they haven’t sanctioned that as well. I can’t remember how many times a well fed “brother” would go on stage with his suit buttons barely holding on. His tie draped over his belly like a slobbery dog tongue. Pretty unsightly, but they wouldn’t want to be unreasonable now would they?
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ProphetMoeshe says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:06 pm
Gastrosexuality…
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:23 pm
@Chiafade…. We had one REALLY OVERWEIGHT Sunday Public Speaker a year ago DROP DEAD on The PLATFORM halfway through his talk from a Heart Attack!!!
HALF the GOVERNING BODY( Geoffrey Jackson, Mark Sanderson, Gerrit Losch,Tony Morris & Sam Herd) are Overweight so there will be NO SANCTIONS on FAT Brothers,Even though there is more Scriptural Backing for Sanctions like GREEDY PEOPLE is mentioned alongside FORNICATORS & ADULTERERS who will Not Inherit Gods Kingdom at 1Corinthians 6v9,10
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JB Reezner says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:14 pm
Thanks Lloyd, and thanks to the ones you mentioned who shared this info with you.
I think the leaders of this cult will live to regret this tack. The young ones in the congregation are already the least likely ones to remain in the Org. This is so blatantly bizarre and overly restrictive, it will surely result in an even faster decline in the number of young adherents.
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Holy Connoli says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:13 am
JB Reenzer. You are right. The young ones will leave and are leaving therefore not bringing in young replacements in any organization will make it collapse. What does the WT offer young folks these days? NOTHING at all. The only thing they offer is
pioneering or bethel and bethel is not recruiting they are laying off. Pioneering is boring and with inquisitive young minds who can find out everything about the WT it is a dead end street plus you will be alone much of the time. They do not want young ones to go to college, do not have a GF or BF, no dancing, only controlled music, lousy jobs, no social life, only WT approved friends etc. They offer nothing for young ones or anyone for that matter.
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JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:09 pm
You’re so right, Holy Connoli. And with young ones possibly appearing to be a bit of a lost cause for the Org, it’s starting to look like they will be targeting the truly mentally weak (who usually have at least a monthly assistance check coming in) with such offerings as their simplified version of the Bible Teach book for people “who need to have the truth presented in a simpler manner”.
The more I see the true evil of this cult, the more I wish it would’ve just been a proper cult with aliens flying in on a mother ship to bring us back to our home planet when all the stars line up just right.
I’d rather have been duped by something purely insane, rather than something that is revealing itself to be so grotesquely evil. If you can’t tell, I’m still dealing with some fairly profound embarrassment over all of it.
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John freeman says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:18 pm
It gets more stupid by the day .what next they will be telling us what color cars to drive what to eat .
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:12 pm
@John freeman…. Don’t you mean …. WHAT COLOUR CADILLACS????
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Scrubmaster says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:51 pm
@John, you say that about what color cars to drive, I was in a congregation in the 90’s were the elders decided brothers could only wear pastel color shirts on the platform to give a talk. Along the lines of cars by the way, I know a young brother in the 90’s who brought a two door sports car, the elders gave him grief about it because it did not have 4 doors for field service.
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MK says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:06 am
JAJAJA ! Dans ma congrégation on disait que Alfa Romeo avait un logo de serpent avec une croix ! Donc voiture non chrétienne a évité! je me souvient ne pas avoir acheter une a cause de sa!
JAJAJA ! In my congregation was said that Alfa Romeo was a snake logo with a cross! So unchristian car avoided ! I do not recall having a buy because of her !
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:27 am
That would depend on what stock their gambling on at the time.
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JBob says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:18 pm
If my theory is correct, this would be another indication of how much the rift between progressive (liberal), moderate and arch-conservative JW’s at HQ has grown. In this one strike, it seems to confirm that conservatives are taking charge once more–probably driving the organization over a cliff as they become more isolationistic and bizarre, out-of-touch with current events.
I also venture to state that those being laid off and not recycled at HQ are most likely those not kowtowing to the conservative regime with figure head Tony, but a host of entrenched agents in various “helper” departments. This is reminding of the witch hunt of the 1980’s where slowing growth was blamed on those who dared to have a liberal or progressive viewpoint.
So, chilluns, if you intend to remain with Watchtower, hunker down, keep your opinions muted and dress as blandly as you can. Otherwise, view this as your ticket of escape.
Return?? to this filthy, festering latrine?
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Michael Austin says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:22 pm
The total control over everything about a person just keeps getting worse. I am really angry after reading this. The “metrosexual” look is nothing more than wearing modern, nicely fit clothes that look really nice on a person. When I was young and single back in the 80’s I paid a lot of money and attention to what I wore. It couldn’t be described as gender bending by any means and I was still looked down on. I spent most of my life hiding my homosexuality in this organization and it sickens me the way they keep destroying everything about a person that makes them who they are. I can’t help it, I hate them with a vengeance.
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Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Hence the problem with witnessing or field service. Someone has to represent this corporation, so they must wear what the Watchtower says.
If they were in a normal mainstream Christian religion, who do not go out in door to door work, there would be no need for this chastisement. Jesus gathered people to his side who would listen to him. He did not judge them for who they were. In case many of you have never set foot in a church, you will find a far different atmosphere as people wear what ever they feel is suitable, whether it be done up to the hilt with fine clothes or just jeans and t-shirts with thongs.
This is where the Watchtower have got it wrong. Jesus said “Do not judge others, lest you be judged” in the sermon on the Mount. Forget this door to door witnessing. It just produces judgmental, hard hearted, incompassionate people who spend more time looking at the splinter in their brother’s eye and not seeing the log in their own.
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Charlie says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:09 pm
Absolutely I was just admonished by my aunt that my haircut was to much like those dykes. She said quote how can we go preach when we look no better then the householder or their children who are living that lifestyle. As if this religion suddenly made us saints. She told me some people in her hall had asked about me if I was “that way” and she was concerned. I can bet the ones that asked are just like her miserable and husbandless. They don’t have a life so they sit and judge everybody instead of worrying about there own.
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wifibandit says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Can someone email me the full S-337a-16-E ?
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:08 pm
@wifi bandit … I think it’s S338 -16s-hit???
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ThePentagonExperience says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:25 pm
You sank my battleship!!
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:42 pm
@The PentagonExperience… I think TONY the DESTROYER sank it???
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wifibandit says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:04 pm
Sorry, I don’t understand. I would like a copy of this out line, in any language. In the picture, it looks like the file is named S-337a-16
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:50 am
@wi-fi bandit .. Parlez Vous Francais??
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wifibandit says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:37 am
Oui, un peu.
wifibandit1 @ gmail
Lilas says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Even-though I left the cult 13 years ago I still like to know what is going on with the nitwits. I am happy you are always so well informed. This cannot get any better. When will they start to enforce fat people to loose weight. That would be a good one.
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James Wittinger says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm
It’s fun to just sit back and watch the cock fight. I don’t have to promote or contribute to the fight. Just watch it.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@James.., Nice Comment.., But WHAT COCK are you Talking about??? .,, TONY or STEVEY??
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John Baptist says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Oh boy Lloyd you must be in your glory on this one. Lol
Just remember les we forgot as the Yourh book tells us “master nation may lead to homosexuality”
Statistically speaking 98 percent of all males do this at least once in their lives. So looks like Tony has got his hands full with those single Bethelites. Lol
One of the traits of a CULT is to have you conform to THEIR Recommended dress code.
Good luck on that one Tony tight pants.
Again as usual as they say Spot on with your article. Thank you.
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James Wittinger says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Let’s brew a new beer and call it Cult 45.
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will says:
October 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Wow!!! Honestly, tighter fitting clothing fits better on certain people because of certain body shapes. Anyway, this Org is crazy. I personally know a male witness who got married. His new wife had two kids, so he married into a family. Less than a year later, he left. That being said….. he wasn’t reproved, kicked out or anything. After all that, he was still allowed to go out on service. I thought their was a scripture about not providing for your family and how that’s worse than a person without faith (he provided no financial support or anything, so she had to move in with her mother for a couple of years), yet tight pants can get you banned from field service. Message to JWs- Abandon family OK, but tights pants are demonic. Crazy!!!
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Kamael Xevious says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:10 pm
I note with an interest a complete lack of objective guidelines that can be used to judge whether someone is, in fact, dressing as a “metrosexual” or a “tom-boy,” and absolutely even less guidance for determining whether someone’s bearing, mannerisms or form of speech qualifies one. Out of such vagaries, witch hunts are born.
And just how the hell are you supposed to “adorn the inner person” when you can’t go to college to do so? Honestly, they’re really starting to look like the WBTS is circling the drain.
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tiger123 says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:13 pm
One of my former Elder associates (who is still an elder) Wore tight pants and shirts. He was not metrosexual, just fat and to broke to buy more polyester. He plugged in the microphone for the stage before the memorial and when he bent over he treated everyone to 8 inches of his crack. I didnt care he wore tight pants or that his bottom buttons always were coming off his shirts. I just did not want the glutton to moon my minor children. The Bible makes no distinction between homosexualty and gluttony, God will kill you for both. Morris and bizarro GB are too busy staring at mens pants to notice the huge crowd of 400lb plus cows at every convention tbat take up the handicap seating.
Here is a tough truth, Morris isn’t gay, he is a delluded left over Nazi from the Third Reich. He is a piece of ****. Enough said.
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:41 pm
You sir, are hilarious. I nominate tiger123 to write an article for this website!
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ruthlee says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:17 pm
Here’s my vision of beauty….all brothers should attire themselves in the Scottish way full tradition.How manly is that and not a tight pant in sight OH glory for a windy day out on them trolly carts.Ha hahaha ruthlee
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JBob says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:22 pm
LOL!! you wicked lass!
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:03 pm
@ruthlee.. HAVE YOU SEEN MY HAGGIS???
Och I the MOOooo!!
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ruthlee says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Well i ain’t no metrosexual whatizzit? rl
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Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:20 pm
It’s amazing to see the present GB take an organization that has existed over 100 years and watch them run it into the ground within a decade. The whole situation of the Watchtower Society reminds me of the fall of the Third Reich. Just before it fell Hitler and the High Command got more nuts by the minute because they were so neurotic and desperate .
The Watchtower REEKS of desperation at regaining control at all costs and will do or say anything to get it. These really are “the last days ” for the Tower.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:00 pm
@Garrett…I Like Your Parallel. … HITLER Locked himself into a Bunker & KILLED Himself!! .., NOW TONY & STEVE & Co…., THERES AN IDEA!!…, NEW LIGHT ANYONE???!
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Ed says:
October 16, 2015 at 3:25 pm
I do think it will get to that. Maybe if this system continues like this the next say 5p years, many will start asking questions
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Michael Gates says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:26 pm
I will say this about Tony Morris. Like many popular church pastors who come out so strong and repeatedly against homosexual behavior and tendencies, they were struggling with these yearnings themselves. It was by constantly attacking this lifestyle that their inner conscience was crying out. They in time were found out or gave in and it all came crashing down. This of course was the rumor around Leo K in the 80s GB.
I think what we are seeing in the last couple years with the newer GB members is quite Interesting. For those longtime bethelites – those who’ve been there since the 70s 80s era – they are perhaps finding it challenging to swallow some of the thing the current GB are doing, saying.
Remember, these GB members are not “bethel men”. They did not “grow up” feeding at the table of the Kliens, Jaracz, Schroeders, Barr, Barry, Henschel, Sydlik et al, they were in the field as COs and DOs for years. They did and said what they wanted, and everyone in their circuits had no choice but to eat it.
In many cases some traveling men dislike HQ staff as the HQ staff often feel higher than traveling men. Sam Herd even called bethelites “Top of the Ladder”. So these GB may still resent bethelites. Hence, the recent “Reassignments”.
They don’t have the “Organizational Finesse” if you will, in a lot of their doings, and they seem somewhat rough around the edges and unprofessional. Even though Jaracz was quite harsh at times, I couldn’t imagine he or Sydlik saying some of the stuff coming out now.
Some of the old “Heavys” (Walls, Perla, Weaver, Malenfant, Woody, Wishchuck, Waters, Rains and more) are probably gnashing their teeth somewhat.
These GB members with their pinky rings and pocket squares seem really fecitous and very full of themselves. Like a TV evangelist. If they were full of them selves as traveling men, they must be about to explode as GB members.
Yes, in time we shall see even more things to make one raise their eyebrows, as the current GB are quite “unlettered” and can hardly explain the WTS doctrines that the 80s GB came up with. Even though it was false, it at least sounded “deep”. These guys can only talk about petty stuff like dress and grooming, fleshly things, much like gossip. There is no scholarly discourse.
Like a true Circuit man, their talks are now like a Local needs part or Giving attention to the needs of the circuit, because that is what they are best at.
They are truly not ready for “Prime Time” and ready to lead a large organization.
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Pickled brain says:
October 16, 2015 at 2:55 pm
@Michael Gates .. You make many Very Good Points…. SAY COMPARE TONY MORRIS & STEPHEN LETTS Bible Knowledge to FRED FRANZ???..,Even though FREDDY was WRONG on his interpretations he sounded convincing at the Time he said it, BUT TONY??? Hmmmm!!…SAY NO MORE!!! … AMATEUR ??
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gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:38 pm
I appreciate most of the critics made on this site but is it really fair to critizize the organization stand on homosexuality? Any of us have the right to reject the Bible as a whole but anyone can decide to believe in it as the word of God. Wouldn’t that be a shame or hypocritical for someone with obvious homosexual demeanor to go door to door in preach that the Bible condenms homosexuality? Wouldn’t you be the first ones to criticize such behaviors? I think the stand against homosexuality is biblical eventhough some might think it’s homophobic!
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:45 pm
In theory, homosexuals and single heterosexuals should be treated exactly the same: No sex! Now they go beyond this and want to control what that person is! You should be allowed to look gay if that’s what you are. But not according these instructions… There is no way any homosexuals will ever be able to stay a witness with this approach and that is truly despicable.
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gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Anyway, why someone has to stay a christian if he/she cannot change his/her unbiblical behaviors? Nobody should be forced to stay a JW if he or she doesn’t want to follow the Bible principles or laws! I am not saying that everything jw say is biblical but at least their general stand on homosexuallity is! Someone who want to behave and act as an homosexual should feel free to leave any christian group that doesn’t accept homosexuallity.
Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:06 pm
I remember all the articles in the magazines on obesity and self control and titles such as ” is your lifestyle killing you? ” the witnesses didn’t tell half the congregation which were overweight or obese that they couldn’t take the magazines to the door…
But I’m sure it did look hypocritical as hell for a fat brother to magazines on self control to the door of a thin fit person.
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gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:24 pm
Garrett, where does the Bible talk against obesity? Being obese doesn’t mean that someone must have an overeating problem! The Bible warns us against gluttony! It always a good thing to have healthy habits and stay in shape as much possible! I know people that are kinda “fat” but do not not eat alot!
Garrett says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:03 pm
Gardy
That’s true. Obesity isn’t mentioned but moderation and self control is. Unless someone has a medical condition like hypo thyroidism, fat = more calories coming in than going out.
We are all reponsable for what we drink and put in our mouths and how much.
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
I strongly disagree because what is being recommended is punishing someone for their appearance and demeanor without proof that they are or are not homosexual or lesbian. It also sends a message that this “religious organization” is closed and is NOT open and inviting and welcoming to all sorts of people. It is akin to including a mandate that any Latino or Blacks in a congregation would be barred from field service if they have hip-hop hairstyles or wear urban styles. Also, we have to look at the field service mandate–no tick-tocky, no life-eternal, so any young person who may have a natural effeminate nature is ostracized and pushed toward suicide. And, being effeminate is not a tell-tale of being gay. Some rough rodeo riders, battlefield vets, and football players (rugby and soccer too) are gay. Some fashionable lipstick-wearing ladies are lesbian. Behavior and demeanor are no guarantee of sexuality or trend toward sexuality.
Do they bar individuals who speak with a southern accent from field service because they may be perceived as “racist”?
What role do they perceive for “reformed” gays and lesbians–will they have a rehab clinic to train men how to seat with their legs spread far apart and speak in a deep register? Will that make the love of phallus go away?
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:25 pm
Gardy, the bible is clear about homosexuality. It is also clear about fornication. It is not the actual sexual act that is condemned. Otherwise, you are essentially saying that someone who is gay is not loved by God even if he remains a virgin his entire life… None sense!
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:30 pm
* it is the actual sexual act… please remove the “not” from the above post. :)
gardy says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:59 pm
I am against any stigmatizations or judging people on their appearance! I am only saying that we should be objective in our statements against a given or prospective organisational policy. The same way the organization can counsel its members on behaviors that make someone stumbles or mistakenly takes a friend for a fornicator, drug dealer, prostitute etc … I think it is understandable if they give advice on behaviors and attitudes that could make someone see a friend as a homosexual. Personally I think it is wrong for the same person who is practicing fornication or homosexuality to go door to door and preaching against these things. However, it would have been weird to accuse someone of homosexuality because that person has a male tone of voice! Nevertheless, if someone is acting willingly as an homosexual and wants to come public, what should a person stay in an organization or a christian group that is against it ? Nobody can force an organisation or a person homosexuality or any other non biblical behavior! Every body can show respect for a person sexual orientation (hetero or homo) but nobody can impose his/her orientation on an organization or a person!
Excelsior! says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:33 am
gardy,
It doesn’t just sound homophobic, it IS homophobic!
I would NEVER criticise a homosexual for preaching about their faith.
I completely and utterly reject the ridiculous prohibition on homosexuality in the bible.
Any god who gets angry and hurtful to people who are simply different in their affections and attractions is no god at all.
And before all the bible thumpers come to lynch me – can any of you prove that your god exists? Can you prove that the bible is this god’s inspired word?
I didn’t think so!
Grow up! There is nothing immoral or sinful in homosexuality.
Of course, any homosexual love making must be with people of the legal age, and be without compulsion.
I would prefer this god to help us with our problems, rather than single out individuals who do no harm to anyone!
The prohibition of homosexuality is one of the many reasons that I do not believe in God.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:58 pm
“I will say this about Tony Morris. Like many popular church pastors who come out so strong and repeatedly against homosexual behavior and tendencies, they were struggling with these yearnings themselves. ”
Amen! As Shakespeare said ” I sayith, the protester
Protesteth too much.” I think in trying to distance himself by trying to hammer on homosexuality, what he has shown to me is that he has an obsession with it. I’m guessing if he wasn’t a witness we would see him in the rainbow parade…..bashing anyone with baggy pants…
Reply
Gameisover says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:04 am
Jesus never spoke about homosexuality.
His friends were the derelicts of the day.
Some were prospitutes, others thieves, some must have been gay if the 10/20% still applied then. (Judging by history, Greek art and the like, maybe it was 50/50)
The Pharisees condemned him for that.
He spoke about loving one another and about not judging others.
In the Bethel here there are many gays.
I mean many. It is impossible to hide it.
Maybe with this new directive they will be banned from service. The only privilege that will remain will be working for free.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:19 am
JB Reenzer. You are right. The young ones will leave and are leaving therefore not bringing in young replacements in any organization will make it collapse. What does the WT offer young folks these days? NOTHING at all. The only thing they offer is
pioneering or bethel and bethel is not recruiting they are laying off. Pioneering is boring and with inquisitive young minds who can find out everything about the WT it is a dead end street plus you will be alone much of the time. They do not want young ones to go to college, do not have a GF or BF, no dancing, only controlled music, lousy jobs, no social life, only WT approved friends etc. They offer nothing for young ones or anyone for that matter.
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:42 am
Any pastor that needs a TelePrompTer to teach is no pastor at all. You could always identify the false teachers in every congregation by their panicky adherence to notes and outlines. Might as well have called those “talks” what they were, readthru’s. and announce them like this
“Brother such, and such will now READ us his half ass notes on a subject he is evidently too unfamiliar with to ditch a script over. Please remain awake and keep your children still during this torturous babbling and if they make a peep, strike down upon them with great vengeance in either coat room or bathroom. Don’t forget to muffle their screams of pain and terror, oh and turn them phones off to.”
Leaves stage sucking gut in and sore from fat guy crack rash syndrome.
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Bearwoody says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Back in the 1980s, as a Ministerial Servant, a Circuit Overseer by the name of Orville Weldon counseled me in private that I needed to work on “deepening” my voice. The subtext was loud and clear: “I know you’re you’re a disgusting homosexual, and you need to hide it better.” What an a**hole. And I mean that in the negative sense.
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Stephane Laliberte says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:40 pm
Is there any other reasons for which someone would be announced at the kingdom hall as unfit for sharing in the ministry? I have been in “the truth” for 30+ years, I cannot think of anything that would cause someone the right to go door to door… not even pedophilia!
You like to molest children and yet, show repentance? Ah bless your heart, go forth and preach! You look like a fagot? You worthless piece of s**t… you stay home and wait, we’ll see if you’ll be destroyed with the rest of this degenerate world!
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Tara says:
October 16, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Oh dear… we have a young brother in our hall who is very feminine. He is a great young man, kind and happy but everyone knows he is struggling with his sexuality. His voice and his gestures are very camp. He is going to suffer with this one. One the other side of the coin is his sister who is very butch and had a friendship with another sister which has turned heads at times…. their parents hotly deny it of course but it is visible to everyone.
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Garrett says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Tara
Call the film crews. Such stuff is money making sitcoms here in the U.S.
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Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:13 am
Bad boy, bad boy, whatcha gonna do, watcha gonna do when they come for you…. ‘Gonna wear my ‘tight pants!’ Man! feel like a woman……
We also have a sister that likes to look like an over stuffed sausage…
Our CO visit is just around the corner… will this all be announced soon?
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anonymous says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Here in the United States, guys who wear their shirts tucked into their pants are the ones who look “gay” now. Also if you look at the Caleb cartoons, Caleb’s father wears his shirt tucked into his pants and his pants are really tight, looking a lot like the picture of those two guys from Saturday night Live above.
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Paul says:
October 16, 2015 at 5:48 pm
I didn’t think there was anything called “the metrosexual style” (which I guess is why it’s “so-called,” right?). Before Tony’s bizarro rant I hadn’t heard the term “metrosexual” used in general population for at least ten years.
I did find an online guide for metrosexual style tips, though. It has a list of do’s and don’ts. This is one of the don’ts: “Don’t wear ill-fitting attire. There is nothing more unflattering than a too-tight anything.”
So not only is Tony inflicting his genophobic, homophobic obsession on stupid policy — he’s not even getting the definitions right.
Reply
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:27 pm
Straight outta Wiki–
Metrosexual is a portmanteau, derived from metropolitan and sexual, coined in 1994 describing a man (especially one living in an urban, post-industrial, capitalist culture) who is especially meticulous about his grooming and appearance, typically spending a significant amount of time and money on shopping as part of this.[1] The neologistic term is popularly thought to describe heterosexual men who adopt fashions and lifestyles stereotypically associated with homosexual men. While the term suggests that a metrosexual is heterosexual, it can be used to refer to anyone with any sexual orientation.
Herein lies another issue with the Watchtower and elders’ arbitrary standards on behavior and lifestyle. Metrosexual is a term coined by an author of a book to describe individuals who primarily are attentive to their grooming and style of dress [maybe buying top of the line suits and watches and pocket squares and pinky rings?] So, now we’re using the “worldly rules” to form standards, just like the arbitrary movie rating scale [viewing R-rated movies could get individuals d/f or privately rebuked], which is derived and granted by a commission of non-JW’s, and because a movie had one less “F” word, one JW is winked at, while another is impaled and launched on a petard?
Live a simplified life so you can pioneer, but if you run into financial difficulties (you didn’t calculate the cost), so it’s your fault.
At least GB 1.0 and 2.0 knew how to keep the money rolling in without overt begging in the streets like whores.
Reply
Holly Chu says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:28 pm
Yes, Paul, and he got the definition wrong for womens work out attire……he called our exercise tights “spanks”. What an uneducated buffoon.
Reply
Donald duck says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:09 am
I brought that up to my spouse and he said, “how do you know spanx doesn’t have work out wear”… Yeah this is what I’m dealing with… He apparently did some research and spanx has a small line of clothing for the gym… Go figure… I stopped there… :/
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danman says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
What next? They already have the elders screening attendees at special conventions. God forbid anyone see someone in a wheelchair, overweight, or poorly dressed.
Notice how they want to exclude the MS from these juicy ruling from on high. It precisely this secretive trickle down policy of the GB, that gives the incentives for attaining elder. You get to sit on a judicial hearing, you get your special ultra secret handbook.. and all the sisters young and old have to grovel at your every edict.
Women need to wake up to this male dominated cult. I hope a good majority start wearing pant suits, and yoga tights, just to make these elders squirm.
Reply
Caltanzee says:
October 16, 2015 at 6:24 pm
All i can say is wow o wow!!..Just say this aint so, that these evil slave task masters are willing to go way beyond the things that are written to humiliate and comndem the members into coming under their complete contol in every way possible.It was Jesus who said at John 7: 24 stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgement…Paul also confirmed that God does not go by a persons outward appearance. Galatians 2:6..Not even to mention Joel 2:13… Even to sneak these deluded nonsense in behind the ministerial servants, shows how devious these self appointed pompus men has become..Jesus said come to me and I will give you rest..But the GB says: obey me or I’m bringing upon you misery.what a bunch of kooks!!! Thank God I saw the light and woke up from this delusion.
Reply
Darlene Alexander says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:33 pm
I’m betting that the only ones who are being “disturbed” by a sister’s clothing are the horny elders!
Reply
Caltanzee says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:33 pm
Yeah! Like the classic song..I’ve got you under my skin.ive got you deep in the heart of me, and though i try to resist you’re really a part of me.yeah! I’ve got you under my skin……so they are looking and yearing and lusting…so the only way to contain themselves is to contain the flock with a coverup….First tv jw.org.next move…jw tailoring…Black head scraves and long black gowns for sisters…Black coveralls for brothers and yamulks on the heads..lol.cult gear..cult wear.lol.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:53 am
That would make a great punk band The Horny Elders’ I play multiple instruments, who’s in?
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:52 pm
I’ll be there to tickle the ivories or shred on the axe– whichever is needed. Or we can both alternate instruments just to show off for our throngs of admirers, lol.
Yes, music comments are like catnip to me, but I think I handled this reply with a greatly reduced level of my usual insanity. I’m working on it, folks. Baby steps…
Reply
The Pope says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:41 pm
When I was still knee deep in this cult I was a mic runner and almost a ministerial servant. I enjoyed doing it. Got me off of my butt and gave me some distraction. Until the day when I bought these great looking suede wine colored shoes I thought went well with my suits. The head elder pulled me to the side and said I couldn’t run the mic because of my shoes. Too worldly. I gave those shoes away! Wish I still had them. But thankfully this was one of those epiphanies which later helped in my awakening. Thanks for all you do.
Reply
Ozzy Steve says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:10 am
Wine coloured shoes, you were obviously identifying yourself with the “Jezebel class”……was that one, there are just sooo many! As a young teenager I too was rewarded with the awesome privilege that is..The Roving Mic! Initially this amounted to a carrying a dodgy microphone tapped to a cheap plastic broom handle but as Jehovah reached out his powerful hand soon the cordless Mic was invented and adopted in our congregation. Sadly though, the corrupting influence of Satan was not far, for as Microphone technology advanced by Devine inspiration so did the demonic seamstresses plans for young brothers meeting attire! I found myself beguiled into wearing an Olive green Cordoray blazer pared with a dog tooth check brown/black pair of trousers! Eyes were rightly raised and my fitness to carry the sacred microphone questioned. After much heartfelt prayer and soul searching the body of elders decided that not only does Jehovah hate a divorcing but he also likes our trousers to match our jackets! Truly food at the proper time for if I had continued on that rebellious course I way well have turned into one of those Metrosexuals or even worn tight pants!
Love the website by the way
Ozzy Steve
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:18 am
Cowboy boots are popular here…. try prying them off our guys and you’re gonna have some serious Red Neck tantrums.
Reply
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:38 am
Well, it depends on when and where you’re prying them off, Tara..but, I digress.
What this little snippet of a blog is highlighting is how arbitrary JW standards are and absolutely controlling elders and COs will (and have been) over every tiny aspect of your life–from music choices to what songs are played at a wedding reception (one reception banned Michael Jackson dance tunes–he was disfellowshipped but it played some freaky Rick James).
All of this odd, dysfunctional behavior in the guise of appearing “normal” or “righteous”.
And, it only confirms the eery feeling I had watching folks receive the “silver sliver” matched the cult-like devotion the Communist China leader Chairman Mao inspired (nay, coerced) and the waving of his little red book of sayings. Similar to Mao, we see that this group’s leadership has their own devious plans for undermining the veracity and reputations of innocents and demeaning those who will not align to every whim of the local men who administer — mini-popes who apparently are infallible.
Reply
Prodigal son says:
October 16, 2015 at 7:59 pm
They don’t like Led Zeppelin t-shirts either. Especially worn in ur own home during a study.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:05 pm
Lol, the voice of experience, eh?
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:19 am
Not even Stairway to Heaven?
Reply
Garrett says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:06 pm
Oh dear… My Black Sabbath shirt is probably a no go then uh?
Reply
Ready 4 to Fade says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:03 pm
There was an infamous Brooklyn bethel overseer by the name of George Couch who was known for his homophobic rants at morning worship. This may have been a reaction to the major “outbreaks” of homosexuality in the 1980’s at Bethel. His warning was for no horseplay or wrestling in the Bethel residence, for fear this may lead to homosexuality. His rants were somewhat joked about and taken as the ramblings of a rogue figure on the fringes of the Bethel hierarchy. Now it seems like the rogue has become the vogue.
One other thought: maybe it’s a jealousy thing. I can’t remember a more portly group of GB members. Maybe Splane and Lett have BMI’s which don’t measure as obese, but the rest certainly do. This while potential CO’s and their wives are excluded from serving due to their weight being too high and the Borg not wanting their health insurance premiums to go up.
Reply
KaKaJones says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:12 pm
I’m so CORNFUSED. Do guys wear tight pants in Europe? Did Tony Morris give a talk somewhere and he isn’t used to the style they wear? Maybe he saw a guy who is growing out of his pants? The beach boys wore tight pants in the 1960s. Maybe Tony’s gay.
Reply
Oubliette says:
October 16, 2015 at 8:46 pm
Let’s review: It’s a cult!
Reply
Catalina says:
October 16, 2015 at 9:04 pm
My questions are answered. I just watched Cedar’s video about Tony Morris.
Reply
just asking says:
October 16, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Then our C.O should be the first to go. He is simply cool and wears those “fitting” blazers. One time i was summoned before him for my excesses in my dressing, He pretended to chastise me but later he privately told me he likes my style, which only shot my admiration for him through the roof. This is the guy who will deliver a talk at a convention about high education and will say ‘it’s bad only if it is pursued with wrong intentions’. We who are close to him call him “our moderate CO” I once worked with him in the field, we only did two houses and he announced he needed to eat, we ended up in a high end bar eating and having “serious” wine, afterwards we could not continue preaching. I thought this guy is cool. With such lifestyle, I always wondered why they had not fired him, I then learnt that the guy was simply too rich, with trendy cars at his country pad. He was actually doing the org a favour.
Reply
Mamajane says:
October 16, 2015 at 9:10 pm
I never understood how any jw, especially a pioneer, could be fat. All the time they’re turning in for field service, all that door to door……they all should be fit. NOT!
Reply
Phoenix says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:31 am
Really? They are on a budget. How many times did we make Mcdonalds and other dollar menu runs for lunch and break. Not to mention they aren’t as active as you think. Long rides in cars all day – waiting in the car – walking a few door to doors. Not to mention they the rank and file are depressed. I work at a bank and I guarantee I put in more steps daily then they do. I feel the problem with weight in the KH’s is when do the poor fools have time to go to a gym. Between meetings studying service and jobs with crappy hours who has energy or time to stay in shape.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 16, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Everyone has said quite enough about the governing body. Especially about their appearance. Their dress, grooming and physical fitness should be emulated, not mocked.
I refer you to their most recent group photo: http://imgur.com/EGl3x6c
Had to do it one last time…
Reply
ScotWm says:
October 16, 2015 at 10:56 pm
We all know that spirit-anointed Governing Body member Anthony Morris III hates seeing tight fitting clothing on men. However, the latest Caleb and Sophia cartoon shows their father wearing both tight pants and a tight shirt. His clothes are so tight, it looks like he was poured into them. My guess is that A.M. III hasn’t seen this cartoon yet.
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/be-truthful/
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:43 am
@ScotWM. Just looked at the cartoon of Caleb and his father. Wow, those are some darn tight pants and tight shirt also for the Father. I think the Dad is a Metro Sexual! They should do a cartoon of Tony Morris giving him counsel together! lol
? So what if a “BROTHER” has a very short crew style hair cut flat top style which was popular in the 50’s and 60’s is that sanctioned by the GB since many in the military wear those kinds of haircuts?
Would that be worldly and imitating War mongers?
I am sure nothing would be said bc Tony and his boys have a 1950ish mentality on dress and style.
Reply
Caltanzee says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:09 am
Wow!!! You’re right! The video does show caleb father in tight pants..So it’s do as I say or else…But don’t do as I do…what crass hypocrisy!!! Btw, these videos are sooo creepy.omg!! Just had to LMAO!!
Reply
ScotWm says:
October 17, 2015 at 9:05 am
Take a look at ‘Caleb and Sophia Go To Bethel’, where you will see the two kids cozy up to Anthony Morris III in what appears to be a library room. On the shelves are dozens of bound volumes and a collection of the old, obsolete Rutherford Rainbow books.
Then you will see young brothers and sisters as they happily perform a series of menial tasks for their masters. This is odd, because it has been announced that some of the essential services shown, such as the cafeteria, laundry, housekeeping and barber shop will be discontinued in order to devote all Watchtower resources to the Warwick palace and grounds.
And the moral of the story is: “To serve Jehovah is the best work that there is.” And Caleb agrees; “I want to go the Bethel when I grow up!” That’s right kids! You too can enjoy a life of slaving for the seven anointed Governing Body members at Bethel — until you get thrown out on the street with no marketable job skills and no money.
By the way, Caleb’s father wears more modest attire when visiting Bethel and his wife’s dress covers her knees.
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/caleb-sophia-visit-bethel/
Reply
alanv says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:51 am
The organisation has always wanted to control its members. We all know that. This is just another way they can do it.It allows them to make the general public think they are all in total agreement and that all men dress much the same and all women wear much the same clothes as other women in the cong. They don’t want any individualism. They see it much like independent thinking which is a big no no.
The only difference this time is that they have gone a step further and banned dissenters from the ministry.
But yes it will further alienate many in the congregation from the org, so good news, lets hope many more will see the light and get out of this cult.
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:21 am
Hi folks two considerations. I remember “discovering” about intersex and thinking thank god i didn’t have one.NOT because i wouldn’t love my child but i thought every one in the congregation would know about my child,would judge the poor thing how the hell would i dress the child? There must be some family out there who have experienced this and had to conform which means they have had to deny that most fundamental basic right of choice.Hoe would tony nasty pants help such a person who may be ambiguous in all aspects of their persona?Oh i know go door to door but don’t preach or some other daft edict.Point two Jesus wore a dress in comparison to the blue suit of a business man of today so maybe we should put him on the reject pile too. No preaching for you me laddo and get that beard off. Is there anymore pottiness to come forth yet. It is truly laughable if not infuriating. Where is the Bible in this?(just my and others reminder).Inthe end its going to come down to the secret person of the heart is it not.? ruthless/ruthlee
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:33 am
On a personal note which if i write and the naughties read this will know who i am ha ha. A fat bone idle pioneer who would not go out door to door just rvs had a ‘study’ with a white witch for years i think they compared Terry Pratchett novels. Anyway i invited them all to my house for the study and she walked in and said “another Jehovah’s Witness Pagan” best compliment iv’e had in ages. the end of this tale the witch is still a witch, the expioneer is still a fat lazy slob with medical conditions and im still a bit trippy hippy dippy and wear purple and scarlet together because i like the colours ha! Ruthlee.
Reply
Tara says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:25 am
should see the looks I get when I turn up in my mile high ‘tight’ black, ribbon lace up boots and goth skirt and tops….. Usually they know I am having a bad day and leave me alone… well autumn is here and those yummy boots and black skirts and tops are coming out of the closet…..
Reply
ruthlee says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:20 am
Gotta pair in black another in purple and another in brown need i say more tara! ruthlee
Reply
Reader says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:09 am
Back in my teenage years which actually were the sixties, the initial contents of the letter would be applauded as a corect and responsible religious lead. I would hear the same from teachers at school.
However to worry about tight pants is very small to the real child molesting problems.
Tight pants are not good for males and some medics would point to sperm count reductions as evidence of this.
You see young men in public seating unable it seems to sit squarely in a seat, perhaps becase the pants when sat squarely in cause uncomfortable crush in personal places, either that or there is a quite epidemic of swollen testes. You see them knees over the seats either side of them.
As we age, how we have cared for our body can be rewarded by it lasting in better condition and functionality.
Unable to sire your own children if the worst happens is no laughing matter.
Reply
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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234 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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EverydayExplorer says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:34 am
So yet another ‘secret’ edict, deemed only fit for elders’ understanding, is revealed.
Governing Body and Associated Hierarchy of the Watchtower Soc, don’t you get it yet? There are no more elders-only edicts possible. Thanks to the internet age of information, your reprehensible policies will be exposed every time.
These new diktats on clothing are discriminatory in most countries, as well as cruel and stupid.
GB and henchmen, you are going beyond what is written; you know it and you don’t care, because your only deity is power. Thanks to the internet, though, more and more people now know this too. You will be called on your system and its myriad cruelties, and you will have to defend yourselves. You might want to start liaising with your own legal department — you’re going to need it!
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Tamar says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:10 am
There’s a sister in my hall that wears a very butchy looking hair cut. I guess the elders are gonna have to “counsel” her. …smh.
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Chris says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:54 am
The most disturbing passage of the outline is the injunction against “effeminate… bearing, body-language and speech.” These are subconcious traits and mostly beyond control. As if witnesses with these traits do not suffer enough pointless shame!
I recall many bethelites from my time who were described as effeminate, and put up with all kinds of disrespectful treatment while continuing to work there for years. The atmosphere was paradoxical. The same bethelites who indulged in homophobic name calling also regularly made homoerotic jokes about eachother. Many witnesses outside would be shocked by the humour between bethel boys.
But, that is only a natural consequence of locking up a load of hormonal young boys in cramped rooms, banning masturbation and telling them that they can’t have a girlfriend for a year.
So far the society hasnt offered a “gay cure” for the rank and file but it has reportedly been tried in bethel a few years ago with “masculinity classes”, so watch this space.
What would elders have made of the apostle John lying in the bosom of Jesus? (Oh, but they changed that in the latest bible to “close to”)
It seems like tougher times are coming for witnesses who struggle to keep on the so called “straight” path and I really feel sorry for them.
Imagine the legal fiasco though, if a disgruntled bethelite is ejected for being effeminate and takes the society to court for discrimination?
If the GB keeps setting these stumbling blocks down in front of themselves, they are bound to keep tripping into a thorny patch of increasingly liberal law.
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Tonypendejo says:
October 17, 2015 at 6:17 am
Effeminate? You mean like shaving your face to look for feminine? or are we applying WT trademark interpretation of this word too?
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Terance Schmidt says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:14 am
That idea of “the way that people dressed when I was a kid is how ‘God’s People’ ought to dress” is likely responsible for many of the religious groups that dress funny.
Hasidic Jews (1800s Poland), burka-wearing Muslims (way back Middle East), Amish, “Holiness” Christians.
Perhaps if clothing styles change enough the JWs will enter that category.
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:25 am
The term Gastrosexuity was used and it brought to mind part of the Torah which forbids the lardicapped and men without genitelia to serve as Levites at worship. Most of the GB are undeniably obese and this medical fact came to mindhttp://www.medicaldaily.com/circumcised-men-and-obese-men-sometimes-end-buried-penis-what-it-318794
In high school I worked in a hospital laundry room and the doctors used to come to our dock area and smoke cigarettes. One time I asked one of them for if he had an extra cig, and he proceeded to tell me that his was a disgusting habit. He said show me a smoker or a fat guy and ill show you someone who never wipes himself. He went on some rant about how the vast majority of fat guys they had to undress or smokers all had this foul problem. It was a sign of no discipline or self control in their lives. I would love for fat tony or any of these other horizontally challenged false prophets to write that Awake article.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:58 pm
@Robert67…. YOU HAVE COURAGE & GUTS to TALK ABOUT …. FAT PEOPLE !!
LOOKS LIKE ME & YOU COULD BE SQUASHED to DEATH By the … AS You Say .. HORIZONTALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE…. SHhhhh .. DON’T MENTION the .., F??? .. WORD .. !!
I think I’ll Just POP DOWN to MACDONALDS !!!
WHY DON’T FAT PEOPLE HAVE a SENSE of HUMOUR???
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R Morris says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:49 am
I allway thought of myself as the “good elder” When I became an elder there was only10-15 years difference between me and some of the young brothers in the KH. Although I was married with and soon to have a baby I personally still enjoyed playing basketball,football,and baseball. I was usually the organizer of these sports with the teenage boys in the congregation,and a lot of these kids where sons of elders.These where truly fine young men that I enjoyed mentoring and being there safety net when it came to athletics.They were doing all that their parents and the WTBTS asked of them.
Of course we get our visit from the CO, he goes down his checklist of what the congregation was doing right,wrong or other wise.All in all we get a good report.Then he mentions that noticed some of the brother had “worldly dress (again these were good clean cut kids) I stayed silent because I assumed these men would stand up for their own sons.Not one of them did. I was so ashamed for them. Finally I couldn’t take anyone more everyone in the meeting that these were kids, not 40, 50, 60 year old men and that we should not expect nor want them to dress like us. The room got silent…..And in the CO’s defense he said “well, if you brother are OK with it then I am” I never look at those elders the same way again
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Average Joe says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:46 am
That’s exactly what being an elder is all about. Good for you for standing up for them. If you defend what’s right, despite how others on the body react, you can do good for the congregation.
I can’t believe the rest of the GB have sided with TPT. A sad day indeed.
I’m reminded of Trevor Noah’s sketch on YouTube when he was told by a friend “Don’t be gay!” That’s funny but this situation if elders go along with it is very sad indeed. Marking people for being effeminate or for having the wrong hairstyle is bad enough but not even having the backbone to inform the cong why… that’s because if the cong as a whole get to know of this then they would be outraged. I for one am not going to sit quietly when the CO brings this up.
PS. Lloyd, I’m glad you found someone to corroborate my story. I can see your reasoning why you need to wait before publishing stuff. If only the GB were as reasonable.
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Robert67 says:
October 17, 2015 at 9:12 am
I think Tony 1,2,3 left Vietnam for the same reason Maxwell Klinger tried to leave in the tv show M.A.S.H
and despite his “biography” no one can seem to find an Anthony Morris lll on any service list for Vietnam and the things he describes happening where he was “stationed” are openly denied by real veterans of that war.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:05 pm
@Robert67 ..,, ITS on PUBLIC RECORD & IT HAS GUTTED ME to the HEART!! .. That Our DEAR ANTHONY MORRIS ., MOST BELOVED was DISCHARGED From VIETNAM because HE WAS TOO FAT & His NICKNAME was ‘BIG TONY’ or was it ‘…BURGER KING TONY’!!
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Keith says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:39 am
Hi Pickled Brain, do you have a reference for that comment? Would really appreciate it.
Regards
Keith
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Keith says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:37 am
I was in Vietnam about the same time as Tony says he was. His descriptions of his time there are colourful to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if he really was.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 10:26 am
@gardy … You say you know brothers that are KINDA FAT , BUT DONT EAT A LOT ‘ …, WELL there were 6 MILLION JEWS that WENT INTO the CONCENTRATION CAMPS , Some VERY FAT& GENETICALLY some came from FAT Parents, BUT After 6 YEARS EVERY ONE WAS BONEY & SKINNY !!! IT is a KNOWN FACT that you RESTRICT CALORIES to 800 a Day for 6 WEEKS thenTYPE 2 DIABETES can be Reversed& YOU WILL LOSE WEIGHT!!! IT IS CALLED … ‘ SELF CONTROL’!!! The GB MAKE NO EXCUSES for Someone Who SMOKES JUST ONE CIGARETTE Even though there is NO SCRIPTURAL LAW Against it BUT There is for GLUTTONS & GREEDY PEOPLE …..NAME ME ONE Brother or Sister who has been DISFELLOWSHIPPED for FATNESS , YET PLENTY for SMOKING!!!
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Looksathipocrates says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:07 am
I’m sure there is some Awake home school science article justifying the gluttony with “I’m big boned” or “I have a gland problem” Both of these statements have been repeatedly discredited, you might pack an extra few pounds due to any condition, but none gives you the mass of two, three, four human beings. It’s that same Awake science condemning sleeping on your side or vaccinations or …….Here in the States members are encouraged to enjoy the bounty of welfare benefits and the free food buffets they place on your table. Your forbidden from seeking the type of employment that would contribute to the benefit system, but also tought that
You are entitled to all the free you can get out of the worldly governments tit. Everyone still in, needs to defiantly wear tight suits, grow beards, go to school and write to your local politicians to ban the cults carts from selling their cult ideology on public streets.
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gardy says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Pickled brain, are you telling me that people should starve themselves to death ( like in the concentrations camps) to follow the Bible command on gluttony or self control? That would be very simplistic to explain the obesity pandemic in terms of how much someone eats on a daily basis. What do you do with factors such as the global food system, the genetic make up of individuals, the almost generalized sedentary life of our modern societies which its lack of exercises, individuals cultural background and their environment, etc? The obesity problem is multidimensional and cannot be understood by taken into account a single factors. Moreover, I don’t need the Bible to tell me that smoking is harmful! This is an evidence that smoking is unhealthy even for people who don’t even care about religion whatsoever!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:09 pm
@gardy…. As You ACKNOWLEDGE !! SMOKING KILLS… SO YOU WARN PEOPLE About it !! WHY ?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE THEM!!
FATNESS & OBESITY KILLS … SO YOU WARN THEM !!! EAT GRILLED FISH & CHICKEN & SALADS & VEG .. SMALL PORTIONS !!
OBESITY CAUSES DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE , STROKES , HEART ATTACKS, & CANCERS!!!
PLEASE READ @ Hippocrates POST Above yours @ Gardy . He Makes a LOT of SENSE!
I am NOT BEING INSENSITIVE !! OHhh PLEASE …. You Say ThERE Are SLIM GLUTTONS ???? That is what an AWAKE said about 10 years ago !! LIVES are at STAKE…
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gardy says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:00 pm
@ pickled brain, don’t get bitter and feel compelled to go against any biblical stand ( like the one on homosexuality) take by the jw. You might have been a victim of the Watchtower Society like many others but you don’t have to be insensitive. The obesity epidemic cannot be explained by a single factor; it is multidimensional! I consider myself that the global food system ( GMO) is one the biggest cause of death in the world. The so called organic food is actually not an alternative for many poor people in the world. Moreover, I know people that some would consider as gluttons but who are very slims and some who don’t even eat half their daily intake who are struggling with weight issues!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:31 pm
@gardy … HOW CAN YOU SAY THERE is NO BIBLICAL STAND AGAINST GLUTTONY or GREEDY PEOPLE .., In the MOSAIC LAW .. GLUTTONS Were STONED to DEATH & How About JESUS CHRIST who WARNED AGAINST OVER EATING & OVER DRINKING & ANXIETIES of LIFE & LINKED IT with DAYS of NOAH When that DAY would come those like a SNARE.
WHY is IT FAT PEOPLE GET SO DEFENSIVE !!!
YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELVES & YOU ARE ADDING to YOUR DEPRESSION by GETTING FATTER… !!! IT IS LOVING TO WARN PEOPLE THAT ARE ENDANGERING Their OWN LIVES Like you Would a SMOKER or DRUG ADDICT !!
YOU NEED to GO COLD TURKEY …. ONLY SMALL PORTIONS PLEASE????
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gardy says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:08 pm
@ pickled brain, it seems you completely misunderstood my point! I am not saying binge eating is actually a good thing or there is no bible laws against gluttony! I am just saying that obesity cannot be explained by only one factor, which is how much someone eats on a daily basis. It’s part of my secular job description to encourage people to live an healthy lifestyle!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:40 pm
@Gardy .. OBESITY CAN BE EXPLAINED by ONE FACTOR & that is TOO MANY CALORIES EATEN & NOT ENOUGH CALORIES BURNED OFF !
I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF … STRAP a CAMERA to yourself & REALLY REALLY BE HONEST with Ourselves who are or have been FAT… My Mother & Grandmother died of STROKES .. It Runs in my Family … I LOST 6 STONE by EATING JUST GRILLED FISH, VEG & SALAD & EXERCISED …. IF YOU NEED HELP CONTACT a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL!
BUT LETS ALL BE HONEST & HAVE the COURAGE to SAY .. I AM or WAS TOO GREEDY!!
I used to LOVE ‘KEBABS ‘ twice a week! But ONE KEBAB contained 199 Grammes of FAT ! I Loved FISH & CHIPS, SAUSAGES,BURGERs, PIZZA, HAAGEN DAZ ,etc BUT my BLOOD PRESSURE SOARED …I WAS GREEDY & FAT !! LETS TELL the TRUTH!!
GOVERNMENTS HAVE SHAMED SMOKERS by Saying SMOKING KILLS … WELL … SATURATED FAT KILLS!!! & EATING TOO MANY CALORIES in EXCESS to the CALORIES BURNED OFF will mean FAT PEOPLE!!
Well Gardy I have ENJOYED our LITTLE REPARTEE… I am SURE we can AGREE on One thing is OBESITY KILLS PEOPLE & You Can PUSSYFOOT Around BUT PEOPLE ARE HAVING FEET AMPUTATED & Other LIMBS AMPUTATED & DYING EARLY because of FAT RELATED DISEASES LIKE DIABETES !
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 3:55 pm
@gardy .., please don’t use that EXCUSE that ORGANIC FOOD is NOT an ALTERNATIVE for POOR PEOPLE .. I DID NOT SAY THAT& THAT is a FEEBLE EXCUSE … SO MANY People on BENEFITS SPEND a FORTUNE on FAST CONVENIENT FOOD, LOTTERY TICKETS,ALCOHOL & CIGARETTES! & Even if they didn’t … THERE is PLENTY of NON ORGANIC FRUIT & VEG & Baked Beans, Kidney Beans,Sardines,Tuna,Mackerel cheaper than the CRISPS,CHOCOLATE ,CAKES , BISCUITS,Coca Cola & other FIZZY DRINKS I HAVE SEEN ‘POOR ‘ PEOPLE PUT in Their SHOPPING TROLLEY !!
STOP MAKING EXCUSES & SAVE LIVES!!!
anonymous says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:13 am
My son is about 150 pounds overweight and if anybody said anything to him about his weight, I know it would kill him emotionally. He suffers from terrible depression and I would hate anybody who would do that to him and I don’t think I could ever forgive anybody who did that to him.
It isn’t nice to talk about people’s weight, no matter how much sense it makes to people with “normal” weights. None of us know what those people are going through and how much they wished they could lose weight and look “normal” like everybody else.
Picking on people for how they dress and how they look is being pharisaical and shows it is not a “Christian” religion.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:18 pm
@ Anonymous …. If your Son was SMOKING 30 CIGARETTES a DAY because he was DEPRESSED & it Was KILLING HIM would you TALK about it as HIS LIFE Was at STAKE???
If Your SON Is 150 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT I Would ADVISE You to TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT IN A KIND WAY because if You Don’t HE WILL EITHER BE DEAD or Have SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEMS !! & OBESITY Will ONLY ADD to his DEPRESSION
You LOVE HIM SO PLEASE SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT IT!!!
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Excelsior! says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Pickled Brain,
I am overweight. I know it is bad for my health. I do not need to be reminded by you, thank you all the same.
I smoke. I know it is bad for my health. I do not need to be reminded by you, thank you all the same.
People are already aware of the health risks, sir. That’s the easy part.
I have found on my own experience that I have to have something to lose, to provide me with the incentive to improve my condition.
Many people, such as myself, have to deal with depression and other mental health issues. Some turn to comfort eating to self medicate.
Many JWs are suffering from depression, because of the cognitive dissonance created by the WTBTS cult. They may turn to food as a source of comfort. They may also suffer from poor choices of foods due to a low income and, crucially, a lack of time to prepare healthy meals.
Your point about gluttony being prohibited and punished is biblically correct.
However, your using this arcane piece of literature to browbeat people is a bit too much in my opinion.
I enjoy your lively comments usually, and I am sure that I shall again!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 4:38 pm
@Excelsior… WELL WE CAN AGREE ON ONE THING???…, YOU USUALLY ENJOY MY LIVELY COMMENTS …!!
YOU CAN’T PLEASE EVERYONE ALL THE TIME …
I Hope to Keep on Enjoying yours .., So KICK the FAGS & Go On a Diet!…
SIR.
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JJ says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:50 pm
I agree with Pickled (makes me think of pickled eggs, pickled vegetables and other good foods) brain and I always wondered why the Society never ‘picked’ on these really obese elders who would waddle around dispensing their judgements on everyone else.
And Pickeled brain is correct in losing weight. I am practicing fasting myself several times a month. The weight is dropping off quickly along with other health benefits. Set small goals for yourself like just one push-up. You’ll be able to easily do it and probably a lot more. The goal stays small but the results will be huge. Willpower over motivation.
When you are in control over your eating, you will feel in control over your whole life. It will help depression and other mood disorders.
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:52 pm
@JJ .., THANK YOU.. JJ .. IT TAKES GUTS & COURAGE to SAY WHAT YOU SAID!!
IF ONLY FAT PEOPLE WOULD BE HONEST & HELP THEMSELVES THEY WOULD BE HAPPIER!!
Excelsior! says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:22 am
Pickled Brain,
You have managed to offend many people with your quasi evangelical rant about weight issues.
I am happy that you were able to conquer your own weight issues.
However, your infantile response to my previous post alarms me.
Do you have the capacity to comprehend that weight issues are complex and “one size fits all” solutions, namely your own, simply do not work?
I was hoping for a mature response from you, but all I got was an infantile “go kick the fags and go on a diet!”
If you think that this was a suitable response then I would humbly suggest that your debating skills need some serious improvement.
Rather than constantly bombarding this post with edicts to solve complex emotional, mental and physical problems by simply stopping doing something, why don’t you go and research addictions and come back to the forum with some mature solutions?
I enjoy comedy as much as anyone on this site. However, it does become grating when it is the sole form of discourse.
Funnily enough, you telling me to “kick the fags and go on a diet” have had no positive benefit to me at all. In fact, they have had a deleterious effect.
Are you still a Christian, Pickled Brain? If so, then how has your whole crusade against people with addictions and weight issues brought honour to Jesus Christ?
I think it’s time for us to see a different side to you, sir.
We need to see the good man who is trying to help cult victims by bravely staying inside the cult.
I respect that man. I do not respect the man who has the gall to browbeat people about personal issues that have nothing to do with escaping a cult or are, frankly, any of his business.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:21 pm
Peaceful Excelsior, I always enjoy your comments and am in total agreement with all these judgmental comments coming on. I know it was just used as an example for something but now it seems to be a war on overweight people. Good grief. Isn’t there enough of this crap going on from fathead, picky elders and judgmental picky publishers? It’s like so many here are still exhibiting the traits of the Watchtower. Those of us who have left, know the signs.
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Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 5:22 pm
I meant disagreement and not agreement.
Catalina says:
October 17, 2015 at 6:36 pm
Meridith, you are so right. I was thinking the same thing. I’m happy you said it. I hate judgemental people.
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Thanks Catalina. Truth be known, I was so upset about something else which happened to my husband and daughter. It just stood out like a neon sign to me.
My husband has been going for motorbike rides with a brother who was out for years, but decided to go back. When he was questioned about how he felt about disfellowshipped people and people who had left, he said he would have to follow protocol.
My husband asked him if he had told anyone except his wife that they went riding together, and he said he hadn’t. He said to him “Well, if you stop talking to me because I’m not a Witness, we’re not friends anymore. That is it. You can forget it.”
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:21 pm
The other thing was what happened to my daughter the other day. She received a phone call from a friend she had known for a long time when she was a Witness. This girl had decided, after having been out for years, to go back when her husband returned.
My daughter tried to reason with her from the scriptures as she felt that Jesus had been dumbed down by the New World Translation. Of course she did not get anywhere with her but she tried. After awhile her friend said to her “If you keep on with this line of thought, I will have to report this.” My daughter got off the phone and cried which was verified by my little grand daughter. The intolerance is phenomenal and the brainwashing is breathtaking. The most unChristian attitude of these people is disgusting.
Anyway, I wasn’t picking on anyone personally. I just could not help seeing the same judgmental attitude rearing it’s ugly head even on this website.
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Why is my comment awaiting moderation? I made a comment about 3 days ago and it is still awaiting moderation. What is going on? Coincidentally, it was the same comment.
Meredith J says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:38 pm
My comment about fathead elders probably wasn’t the most well chosen, I suppose considering there are active elders on this site. Sorry for any offense. I had no specific persons in mind.
Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Meredith you are doing great. I like you because you’re not arrogant. I haven’t heard you say anything that sounds disturbing. You aren’t mean spirited. You are a friend.
Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:30 pm
The intolerance you and your family are experiencing feels disturbing. It’s funny that sister left the ‘truth’ and then as soon as she returns to it she becomes intolerant all over again. The intolerance I see from JWs and some ex JWS is disturbing. It was enough to make me feel like giving up. It’s people like you who help people like me because you are reasonable. I’m glad you are here. You make sense. It’s hard to be around people who aren’t reasonable and have to be right all the time and wont give up trying to control other’s minds. It’s distrurbing for us because it’s something we don’t do. You are doing well.
Meredith J says:
October 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm
Catalina, you are very sweet. Your words are very uplifting for me. You have no idea. I had forgotten how absolutely cruel the people associated with this rotten cult could be and so blind and brainwashed. After all these years we are still affected. It’s just like my daughter said. “It’s like the Hotel California. You are welcome here but you are never allowed to leave.” Good day to you Catalina. You are my friend too.
JB Reezner says:
October 17, 2015 at 6:42 pm
Well, far be it from me to stay out of a good dust up.
PB, I know you get wound up, my friend, but Anonymous’ comment made it clear how serious of an issue this is for her. We don’t need to pry into the details of it, but whatever those details are, they surely don’t include her simply neglecting to talk to her son about his weight.
Stress, genetics, metabolism, hormones, health problems, sleep problems, etc. There can be many additional factors contributing to obesity other than diet and exercise.
Personally, I probably eat 5 times a day, even on past midnight, whether I’m hungry or not. I’d get into the psychological reasons for it, but Excelsior covered them well enough.
But the main point is, although it is true that you will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume, that can be an impossibly difficult endeavor for many people.
Ultimately, this is one of those issues like depression itself, where, if you can’t personally relate to it, it’s best to just say a few encouraging words, and move on.
Your trademark mixed-case diatribes are better suited for less sensitive topics, my friend, and better aimed at Org trolls and the like.
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Shanti says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:42 pm
PB, I have read on other exjw forums about many people in the congregations needing to be heavily medicated w/ anti-anxiety, anti-depressant and anti-psychotic medications in order to function. Many of these medications cause tremendous weight gain.
I personally gained 40 pounds in 6 months on an antidepressant w/o increasing food intake and doubling my exercise. I then had to take benazepril HCL (40mg) for high blood pressure. I quit taking all medications and promptly lost the weight.
I once had to take a steroid drug for an autoimmune disease. I quit as soon as I started gaining weight. I know people on this drug who look like balloons.
There can be many reasons for weight gain. Perhaps most of the obesity it is due to overeating but please don’t be so judgmental. You have no idea what personal hell some of these people go through. Not everyone is as strong as you. I do not believe all weight issues can be handled as easily as you handled yours. By the way, congratulations on your healthy weight lose and lifestyle change.
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:29 pm
@Shanti .. ASK ANY PROPER DOCTOR & THEY WILL TELL YOU 98 % of the OBESE or OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE in the WORLD is DUE to EATING TOO MANY CALORIES or the WRONG TYPE of FOOD & NOT DOING ENOUGH EXERCISE !!
THERE WILL ALWAYS be AN ODD EXCEPTION !
FATNESS ONLY ADDS TO THE DEPRESSION !!
Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:39 pm
@PB Reezner . WELL THIS IS WHERE WE DISAGREE BIG TIME !! FATNESS KILLS & SO DOES SMOKING & SO DOES ALCOHOL ABUSE !
YOU & MANY OTHERS are VITRIOLIC & OUTSPOKEN to 7 MEN in BROOKLYN WHO ARE. KILLING PEOPLE with their POLICIES !! So LETS BE FAIR & BE AS OUTSPOKEN to WHAT FAT PEOPLE are DOING to THEMSELVES !!!
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Pickled brain says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:57 pm
@JB Reezner … Apologies in my Last POST I addressed you as PB … I HAD JUST EATEN a BIG MAC & I THINK the FAT CELLS Had CLOUDED MY BRAIN!!
SwimmingWild says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:34 am
Great article. Great site. Super conversation.
I remember as a 16-year-old in the 60s being nervous about buying some jeans described as “hipsters”. How weird. So perhaps it’s a theme associated with sexual repression that emerges from time to time more or less strongly. And in this craze ludicrously risible. And entertaining.
There’s no point in trying to find logic in a cult’s rulings-they’re only there to condition obedience-but what is more masculine than a beard? And Caleb’s father’s tight pants – will the boy need to “counsel” his very own father, and will the timeline of emerging new light be revealed through the Caleb archives, when later episodes are re-drawn with baggy pants and loose shirts?
PB-I agree with JB Reezner-normally your energised partial capitalisation is funny and to the point, and appropriately targeted. Your movement to TOTAL CAPITALISATION prompts a kindly response, in a quiet friendly voice, “are you okay?”.
Most people recognise that the issue of obesity is complicated. It’s extremely hard to buy foods that don’t have sugar added, and sugar is very cheap-and now we learn that fats are not the health danger we once thought. So the authoritative advice from the scientific community is confusing.
In this interesting lecture by Dr Doug McGuff from 1.12.20 he starts to talk about nutrition, and at 1.14.10 he explains that modern diets can produce the experience of “internal starvation” where the body is craving more food due to a corrupted metabolism.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU
There are pathways out of obesity, but that’s an individual’s decision – and journey, surely?
SwimmingWild
Shanti says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:52 am
PB, I don’t think anyone is disagreeing w/ you about overeating being the main reason for obesity. I for one am trying to convey that there are a myriad of reasons for overeating. If overcoming such painful personal tribulations was that easy for everyone, no one would still be in the JW’s!!!
I had hoped you would realize you are being smug, rude, insensitive, disrespectful and as judgmental and self-righteous as a JW, haha! I do think you owe anonymous an apology. This side of you is not pretty.
I don’t crawl out of my hole very often to contribute here.
I never feel comfortable when I do. I’m crawling back into my hole now and hope not to comment again unless you start talking about people in wheelchairs should be able to get up and walk if they really wanted to.
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:18 am
What a disappointing thing to wake up to, PB. Your comically frenetic tirades can be entertaining, but I wouldn’t have guessed that they could so easily be aimed back at those around you who like you and care about you. Even more surprising is your use of ridicule in your response to our respectful attempts to reason with you on this matter.
Anyway, to stay on the subject of alternate reasons for obesity would just sound like whining, so I won’t do that. Really, those of us who have had trouble with this issue would not have even brought the subject up without seeing a need to shed a some light on it. That need was created by your oversimplification of the problem.
So let me steer this toward what my main concern has been from the beginning. Anonymous is one of the most thoughtful commenters among us. Sometimes, when I’ve gone back to see what people have talked about on posts that are a few days old, I see that she has continued to diligently respond to people making comments. Whether their comments are friendly or critical, Anonymous’ replies are generous and well-reasoned, and they show that she cares about people and the important issues that come up on this site.
In your comment to her, you implied to this clearly loving mother that she is failing to do something important for her son, and if that failure continues, the result will be that “HE WILL EITHER BE DEAD or Have SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEMS !!”
But carelessly throwing the subject of the life of her child in her face, as if the real problem is that she has simply never considered the dangers of being overweight, is astonishingly careless and cold. Your approach and your conclusion were both wrong.
It’s the kind of thing that could have hit her so hard that she’s now faced with the question of whether or not she even wants to come back to us.
I’m not the kind to demand apologies, but I would hope that you see a need to apologize to her for at least the manner in which you addressed this extremely serious issue to her.
If we end up losing her thoughtful and sincere voice, it will truly be a substantial loss. I hope you can do something to prevent that, PB.
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Please stop all of this. I need my family on here. Lets please agree to disagree and move our energy back to where it is needed….. helping others to break free from the Borg and have a family to turn to once out. I have a confession to make because I feel bad. Our secretary texted me today for my time… Haven’t done anything in over 3 months. I lied… I texted him back and said one hour. Well I was talking about the WT….. just not in a very nice way.
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Tara, I’m proud of you for your 1 hour. They want you to talk to people about what the Org has to offer, and you have been doing a lot of that. I say kick it up to a few hours next time. Also, throw some mags in the garbage bin, and you will be able to count some placements too!
Come back, Anonymous. PB is simply a crazy person.
PB, you’re simply a crazy person. And you, my friend, have to accept what I’m telling you because “a TRUE FRIEND Will Say The TRUTH About a SITUATION Even If it Might Hurt in the Short Term”!
You can’t argue with YOUR OWN WORDS!!!!
JWChange says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:19 am
I am appalled by this micromanagement by the GB as stated in the latest edict, which was brilliantly brought to our attention by JWSurvey’s confidential contacts. In my opinion, the GB are delusional and breaking two key ‘theocratic’ rules:
(1)beating the flock; (2)going above what is written.
It’s similar to how Judaism evolved from the 600 Mosaic laws into the millions of interpretations of the Talmud. And how Islam evolved, from the general simplicity of the Quran to the multi-volume Hadith.
I am of the opinion, the latest ‘what you can wear’ Pharisaical interpretation by the GB, is a shot in the foot and will help some JWs wake up to TTATT.
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Winston Smith says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:23 am
@JWChange – Good points – their behavior hardly seems “discreet.”
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Lospecchio says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:47 pm
The talmud is not a set of rules, it is a continuation of the the conversation of the nature of who the jews are in relation to their god and the rest of the world. Only the most conservative jews think of the talmud and even the bible the way jw’s and the rest of enlightenment era conservative christianity think of their own rules and regulations, which includes the various “literal” interpretations of the bible.
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Winston Smith says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:19 am
Lloyd, your points “the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle” and “they have shown that…they are easily manipulated by a strong personality” are well made.
The fact of the matter is that this organization has always looked for a strong personality to rally around. It is often indicative of a destructive cult that there is a charismatic leader driving the extreme culture. It has been the case through most of the organization’s history. Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz – All men who became a focal point in the organization and this led some of the most outrageous teachings and practices. After Fred Franz’s death it seemed that there may not have been as strong a central figure in place, hence we saw some relaxation of some of the stricter policies in the 1990’s. Is perhaps Tight-Pants Tony going to emerge as the next central figure in the cult? It will be interesting to see where this leads them…
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Morpheus says:
October 17, 2015 at 11:26 am
Hey, not good times ahead for Serena… check this out:https://www.pinterest.com/pin/549017010796270310/
Too tigth, sister!
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JB Reezner says:
October 17, 2015 at 12:54 pm
In harmony with the Org’s latest adjustment in priorities, the next publication to be covered at the Congregation Bible Study has been announced: http://imgur.com/Thv43AH
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Kaput says:
October 17, 2015 at 1:41 pm
Always had my hair long and my trousers tailored, was confronted a few times by management to conform or face the consequences, when I retorted that Jesus had a beard and long hair I was told that his appearance was acceptable by the common folk of his time, well guess what tony Morris the third (wtf?) tattoos, long hair, beards and body piercing are accepted in business and most social settings these days, pinky rings and rolexes send the wrong message so I suggest you address your attire and conform.
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Erin Horn says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Talk about tight pants, Wait until JW learn that the Watchtower has 2 billion in Wall Street much in Defense Company’s, Alcohol, Tabaco and Media. Every Jw will download in their pants making them very tight. They have to dissfollowship them all.
Too see the IRS form of Watchtowers holding in said company’s Click on http://nccsweb.urban.org/communityplatform/nccs/organization/profile/id/386043103 then forms 990 and see from 2003 (when the U.S. and Britain went to war) – 2014. They have bloon on their hands and stool in their pants.
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Ted says:
October 17, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Cults and totalitarian regimes, are in fear of individualism,
critical thinkers who might challenge their authority.
Even in the matter of dress, an independent person with
their own special tastes is seen as a threat, someone who
who will encourage others to think independently. it can’t
be tolerated.
In this case, an imaginary enemy is conjured up. —
Homosexuals, who are apparently out to conscript us,
and who’s mode of dress is designed to entice us and
lead us to eternal damnation.
It’s the “Reds under the Bed ” syndrome, paranoia. Dictators
often invent enemies in order to legitimise purges.
Even independent bible reading is conceived as a threat.
You can’t understand it they say without ” Gods org,” so
reading it alone or in groups not authorised by us, is futile.
Over 7 billion people on earth, but the Bible belongs to just 7.
Total fantasists.
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Julia Orwell says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:44 pm
So women can’t even choose what sort of hair they can have? This is like North Korea, where they have a chart of acceptable hairstyles all people must choose from. What about women who’ve had cancer and have gone bald or have that fuzzy fluff or are growing their hair back after cancer?
What about brothers who grow moobs for whatever reason?
You know what this is a slippery slope to: deciding what JWs can and can’t wear outside of the hall too (more even than now) and soon women won’t be able to wear pants anywhere and men who like pink and purple will be be castigated. This is where old fusty jws can force culturally-constructed gender stereotypes on the R n F (even moreso). Well done, Taliban.
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Kat says:
October 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm
WT are communists.
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ScotWm says:
October 17, 2015 at 8:16 pm
First, we are subjected to the bizarre homophobic ramblings of anointed Governing Body member Anthony Morris III. Now, the majority of the Governing Body seems to have moved over to the dark side with A.M. III on this subject. The sad fact is that Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to believe whatever their anointed Governing Body members say, no matter how asinine.
A big problem faced by the Governing Body is that the entire doctrine concerning the 144 thousand anointed has become strained, particularly now that their numbers are increasing every year. In order to address this issue, the January 2016 Watchtower (Study Edition) has this article: “We Want to Go With You.” — What should we remember about the 144,000? The problem is that this article raises far more questions than it answers. The most obvious problems include:
“Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior.” (Yet the anointed Governing Body members continually subject their cult followers to “new light” rules and regulations which must be obeyed — or else!
“Because even if someone has received the heavenly calling, that person has received only an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward. That is why Satan raises up false prophets . . . to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.” (More and more witnesses are beginning to wonder if false prophets have infested the Governing Body.) And with good reason. The article also warns: “Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven.” (The article raises the distinct possibility that the Governing Body could include false prophets and those with mental or emotional problems.)
“Jehovah’s spirit bore witness to them personally. No announcement was made to the world.” (Watchtower literature constantly reminds its readers that the Governing Body members are of the anointed class. This article is no exception.) But don’t annoy their spouses with embarrassing questions like this: “We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise.” (I would like to hear how some of the wives of Governing Body members would answer this question.)
“In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.” (Apparently, the Governing Body didn’t violate this rule when they declared themselves to be exclusive members of the faithful slave club.)
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2016/we-want-to-go-with-you/
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Holy Connoli says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:00 am
@ ScotWM. I just read most of the 1/15/15 article
in the wt. Talk about nonsense and a lot to say about nothing? When I read verbiage like that I wonder what the purpose of the article is> It is like they are trying to keep everyone thinking the same way and dictate exactly what to say, feel, think and act. Another thing is for sure although they say do not treat “ANNOINTED ” ones like celebrities the R&F are trained to do that bc the GB give themselves the special status and special authority. I know when my spouse goes to the annual meeting ot has a GB over my house they act like Jesus Christ himself is in town. It is ridiculous. That article was so VERY SHALLOW. Even for long time JW’s it is just nonsense.
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ScotWm says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:14 am
Holy Connoli says: “Talk about nonsense and a lot to say about nothing?”
A few years after Fred Franz’ 1975 prophesy failed, the Governing Body was forced to come up with new light that would allow later day contemporaries (an overlapping generation) to claim anointed status. The fact remained that those claiming to be of the anointed have absolutely no way to prove that they have a heavenly calling.
Being told that “they just know” is not an adequate explanation, but that is the only explanation offered. However, the Watchtower doctrine of the 144 thousand anointed ones who will rule with Christ in heaven must be accepted by all Jehovah’s Witnesses, unless they want to be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
So, once again, the Governing Body presents a Watchtower study article, discussing the anointed 144,000, which is totally devoid of any substance. Yet, this study article will be read to all congregations and audience members will parrot back the nonsensical information from the paragraphs and accept it as truth.
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 2:10 am
@Swimming Wild .FAT PEOPLE are KILLING THEMSELVES . PERIOD ! You say it’s HARD To FIND FOODS WITHOUT SUGAR??
Well TOMATOES,LETTUCE,CELERY,BEETROOT ,BROCCOLI ,WHOLEMEAL RICE,,WHOLEMEAL BREAD,SARDINES,LENTILS,COD,HADDOCK ,TUNA,GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST,CAULIFLOWER ,RADISHES,KIDNEY BEANS,LEAN BEEF ETC,ETC
I could NAME a 100 other FOODS !
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GEM says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:51 am
@Swimming Wild: Yup, my partner makes a lot of Cakes with Sweet ‘n Low. Avoid Tropical fruits and believe it or not, White Flour and Sugar levels can be controlled. I am type 2 Diabetic, but inject Insulin, twice daily and Lixisenitide.
Trouble is though Pickled… Insulin does make you put weight on, so Portion Control is often the greater challenge.
Wish the WT Society would use its Printing capacity to explore practical help for people like me. Especially to look at the presence of ALLOXAN in white flour in the UK and the USA especially, so that we can have fluffy white cakes to tantalise us, and look to at the preserving agents to preserve White rice. Could expose the biggest cover up since Thalidamide!…
Back to topic… maybe an expose on the medical affect of tight pants on the human crotch would at least show Tight Pants Tony was worried about human welfare!
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Holy Connoli says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:02 am
A ScotWM. I meant to say I just read the 1/15/16 WT . Sorry I am a year behind! lol
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ScotWm says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:32 pm
Actually, I didn’t notice the incorrect date until you mentioned it here.
Your earlier observation about the Governing Body being treated like royalty reminded me of the special treatment that circuit overseers received when they visited my congregation.
I have never met any Governing Body members, but I’m sure they attract a lot more groupies than lowly circuit overseers.
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SwimmingWild says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:38 am
PB I really don’t get why you’ve morphed into delivering this tirade which you must know is being taken personally by many individuals here – and despite the number of people asking you to tone it down – do you have a problem keeping your weight down or are you close to someone who is overweight, and is it distressing you? Your engagement with this topic is unusually vociferous for you (now nearly 100% capitalisation). Can we have the good ol’ entertaining PB back?
@GEM – On the topic – and re tight pants and health – we know about overheating reducing the count – but aren’t tight pants a bit like elastic tights used to reduce thrombosis in the legs on long flights – perhaps tight pants, like Caleb’s dad’s, will help him survive sitting still through long boring meetings. In fact perhaps as Caleb is supposed to sit still, he could get cardio vascular health benefits from tight pants, or better still “spanxs”, worn at meetings.
SwimmingWild
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:39 pm
@Swimming Wild …. YOU IMPRESS ME ! You have kept your COOL & Been CONCILIATORY towards me …. Yes I am Okay & I LIKE Your Style in ASKING ‘ Can We Have the …. GOOD OLD ‘PB ‘BACK ?
You May ….
My Comments could have come over as Smug??
BUT a TRUE FRIEND Will Say ‘The TRUTH About a SITUATION Even If it Might Hurt in the Short Term it WILL BE a LONG TERM BENEFIT
If I BELIEVE Something is The TRUTH I Would Rather LOSE ALL MY FRIENDS? Than COMPROMISE what I Believe ! Like you all we have compromised OUR CONSCIENCES for 7 MEN & I AM NOT GOING TO DO IT AGAIN !!!
But TAKE CARE Swimming Wild … YOU ARE a GOOD PERSON!!
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Nemorino says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:59 am
I can’t help but recall my experience during my first week at Brooklyn Bethel. My table head, a senior member of the Service Department remarked to me that “there are a lot of guys here in Bethel that are light on their feet.”
Most of these types had the so-called “white collar” jobs in the office, Service Department of writing staff.
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Nemorino says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:59 am
I can’t help but recall my experience during my first week at Brooklyn Bethel. My table head, a senior member of the Service Department remarked to me that “there are a lot of guys here in Bethel that are light on their feet.”
Most of these types had the so-called “white collar” jobs in the office, Service Department of writing staff.
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ruthlee says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:19 am
OH B***dy H**l whats all this diatribe on fat people. Who actually cares if they are top of the food chain. Let’s just distribute lovely kaftans so we/they can float around being lovely.If all the depressed jw’s had not been lied to they there would not be such a prob in org with older folks, It’s called comfort eating because most jws know there is no happy ending no paradise no reward so they eat themselves into an early grave. When you are poor you starve or overeat depending on your geography. Maybe the watchtower should do it’s job properly and start distributing bread and wine. Then we will see some miracles! I’m off to the kh and going to do a mental calculation of the calories the collective had for breakfast as i don’t think there is any other way to keep my brain in gear seeya ruthless/ruthlee
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Robert67 says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:38 am
Alright everyone hitting RESET on this one. Don’t let the GB’s conquer and divide tactics work on here. We all see the weight topic from different angles. As Obi Wan Kanobi would say only the Sith(GB) speak in absolutes. I noticed a comment above that compared a lot of these restrictions to the Talibans methods of hijacking a faith. Lets focus on the evil we and our loved ones are facing in the Watchtower. Im off to meeting.
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Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:04 pm
I started the whole diatribe about obesity…
…sorry….
Look…there is a happy ending…
All the fat people get eaten first when the Zombie Apocalypse starts. (see Zombieland
…first 10 minutes for reference)
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:23 pm
@Garret… YOU ARE MAKING ME LAUGH!!!
ARE the ZOMBIES FAT???
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JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm
Don’t get your hopes up, Garrett. I never miss Walking Dead, so I will be the first one bustin’ caps in zombie heads when it all goes down. And Zombiegeddon will surely be coming any day now…
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:27 pm
@Robert67…. I HAVE JUST HIT the RESET BUTTON !
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:43 pm
@Ruth Lee … I BET You LOOK GOOD in a KAFTAN!!!
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PaxRomana says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:23 am
Hahah! And the disintegration continues.
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Ted says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:35 am
There have been some well authenticated instances in which
women have been transformed into men, and it is possible
that this transformation may become general and we shall
all be brothers together.
Oh! Why did I ever doubt the truth, the Judges words are
coming true right before my eyes, Women are morphing
into Men, wearing trousers and short back and side haircuts.
My wife and I are going back to the Kingdom Hall this very
afternoon, to proclaim our repentance and beg forgiveness
I think I’ve got a spare suit she can borrow.
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Amy says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:36 am
It’s interesting that these new dress and grooming rules were only announced to the elders. The Borg knows they’ll lose a ton of members if it was announced publicly. They chose to try and discreetly have the elders police the Cong. The r&f will never know that they can be banned from preaching unless they found out from this website or the like!
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Actigall Ur says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:10 am
That is why it is OUR responsibility to make this public to the Borg! :) Email and Facebook away!
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Jake says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:54 am
Wow that’s some conversation regarding weight!
Who do you owe an explanation to, not for me to say, but I do understand that it’s more than rare for a JW to be disfellowshipped for obesity.
I suppose, regarding the article, that most companies have a dress code, seems the JW’s code is occasionally dictated by sexuality. Do you need any more evidence that individuality is crushed within the JW community even if your not on duty. . . .thats the point.
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Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:19 pm
@Jake … GLAD You Enjoyed the QUIET , UNCONTROVERSIAL DEBATE about WEIGHT??
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RC8madBrit says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:04 am
I was a JW child in the 50s. And trust me, TIGHT PANTS became a huge fashion along with no turnups (except on jeans) and ‘winklepicker’ shoes. We all wore them to meetings with no comments from the ‘servants’…maybe because they were all outside having a fag in the smoking break we had between the Pubic Talk and the Watchtower! Hypocrisy has always been rampant. In the late 60’s the fashion world added the ‘Maxi-skirt’ to the mini-skirt as ultra fashion. My mother and sisters and girlfriend all rejoiced. They could be fashionable yet ‘modest’!!! Banned by the elders. We should all just look like frumpy, dowdy old-fashioned, boring self-righteous busybodies. Just like the Governing body and their wives!
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Cherie says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:06 am
So well said, as usual, Lloyd. To achieve the best of our human nature, we must seek to incorporate both positive feminine traits and positive male traits into our personalities and behaviors. This is true androgyny, which has more to do with practice than it does with appearance. And it’s nothing to be afraid of.
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Actigall Ur says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:08 am
So let me get this straight (no pun intended :) ) and please correct me if I am wrong:
Wearing tights pants and yes, even tight “jackets” – BAD
Hiding pedophiles from the public to save “Jehovah’s good name” – GOOD
—————————
Wearing multi-colored socks for bothers and having short hair on sisters – BAD
Shaving all facial hair (except pedophile mustaches) for men – GOOD
—————————-
Shall I continue?
Watching rated “R” movies as an adult – BAD
Talking about masturbation, petting, anal and oral sex and other sexual activities in a public talk while children present – GOOD
——————————
Going to college, improving your education, accepting a promotion at work – BAD
Encouraging your members to sell their houses, cars and valuables because the end is coming so they can go preaching and live like vagrants off the goodwill of others – GOOD
————
Sounds reasonable. Where can I sign up for these words of wisdom directed by “God”?
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Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:13 pm
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day… actually a 7th day…. and he said we should – including him, join the catholic faith. We can screw up all week and then go and say sorry and start with a clean slate.
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Average Joe says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:56 am
@Erin Horn
Would you mind clarifying the site you mentioned please?
Eg. The 990 form for 2014 (2013 Tax Year), at the end there are a load of assets. Does that mean that the WTS have invested money in all those stocks & shares? If so they have shares in PepsiCo – owned by the Mormons I believe. Also in Apple (hence all the Apple gear they use. Maybe I should ask them to sell me a new iPad Pro at their discount rates!)
As I understand it, and please correct me if I’m wrong, investing money (especially large amounts as the WTS has apparently done according to this report) in stocks & shares is basically a bit like the lottery: you can make a fortune but you can also lose a shed load too?
Another reason I don’t give them anything anymore since coming across this site. I’ve a good mind to write to them and demand I be given my shares in Apple that they used my money given to advance Kingdom Interests!!!
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Erin says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:56 am
Who controls the trust? The HENRIETTA M RILEY TRUST provides to watchtower moneys (yield) from this stock portfolio that has 100 of millions in defense, Boing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and many others.
In other words Watchtower takes blood money that you would be dissfollowship for just for sweeping the floor. Hypocrites who exploit dupes for there labor while profiting from blood money. If the brothers and sister back at bethel had know of this they would not have given up their lives for no pay so Watchtowers could playing in the Stock Market.
They also own Media shares which may have protected them all this while. There are many questions to conceder. Is this person dead? If they are, when? When was the trust been started? When was the trust started and have they added to it and when?
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 18, 2015 at 1:50 pm
The answer to your questions is that perhaps it was always dead because the true history of this cult is one of deception. We know who the master of deception is don’t we? Hypocrites right to to the core. From Russell through to now it’s been lies and manipulation. We were attracted like moths to a flame but caught with a net like a spider traps it’s prey in its’ web.
Reply
Erin says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:58 am
And did they borrow against the 2 BILLION in any way shape or form
Reply
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:19 pm
So…. this whole wearing tight clothes thing… does this overlap (smiles to herself at being clever with words) with our day to day life? I mean if we are caught in public wearing skinny jeans, yoga pants, leggings etc etc and that’s just the brothers…. are we likely to be spoken to by the ‘What Not to Wear’ clothes police?
Reply
Erin says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:21 pm
If this was a loving group of human beings they would take some of that stock hopefully out of defense stock and see to it that the bethel folks could get a new start. This work labored under false pretense (that this was an ethical organization) and under dress ( false prophecy, i.e. fear) and undue influences (dissfollowshiping) and for no pay (labor law). Can anyone say FRAUD and CORRUPTION i.e R.I.C.O. CHARGES.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 12:46 pm
@Tara … Thank You for your comment… YOU are a LOVELY LADY& Please don’t Worry I will Revert back to the important TASK in HAND & that is WAKING UP PEOPLE to the DANGERS of the 7 MEN of the GB!!
Reply
Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:06 pm
Pickled Brain….you gotta explain one thing to me that has really haunted. Namely…the capitol letters thing….
see…usually when things are in capitol it means that someone is yelling….yet….in context it doesn’t fit…unless someone has Tourettes syndrome…..
Just curious…….I HAVE to ask…
G
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:56 pm
@Garrett.. TOURETTES ??? Hmmm! FaScINaTiNg QuEsTiOn!!!
You could have HIT on Something there!
I MUST GO & SEE MY DOCTOR??
Reply
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:14 pm
You called me a lady! Aw bless ya cotton socks.
Reply
Jake says:
October 18, 2015 at 2:51 pm
What the bloody hell are ‘gender blurring characteristics’, can some one explain?
Don’t tell me you’ve just given license for the local Elders to determine it for themselves. (Shaking my head in my hand)
Gender blurring characteristics, would that be like a man who is compassionate, thoughtful, gentle?, would a gentleman also considered to be ‘gender blurring’, or is that permissible?
Governing body :-) , shame, aren’t you the ‘bride’ of Christ, are you not apart of the ‘woman’ in Reverlation 12, do you not feel the same as the maiden towards your master, so beautifully written, in the Song of Solomon,
did not David love Johnathan more than women?
Now it’s not my problem that Toni (oops) Morris has a fixation with tight pants is it?
Let’s say, for instance, a brother is effeminate due to the abuse he’s suffered or seen are you willing to crush him further?
Now regarding tight pants:-) doesn’t nature itself teach that animals preen and dance before mating.
Why are you so judgemental of people, does it make you feel better about yourself, that you have something to believe in?
As regards Toni Morris did not the Vietnam war make him realise that he was a gentle soul and needed the Christian message, is it all about power now?
Reply
Bearwoody says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:20 pm
New light: Gaydar is one of the fruits of the spirit!
Reply
Jake says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Nothing you can see that isn’t shown. All you need is love.
Reply
Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 3:08 pm
John Lennon was gunned down….
…in New York….
…wearing tight pants….
….any questions Jake?
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:19 pm
@Anonymous .. JB Reezner is Very Concerned at the WAY I Replied to you !
JB HAS a POINT … To a Point???
YES ,I Admit I was NOT TACTFUL…. Some might say that is Understating the case,???But I do Stand by The FACTS of what I said,YET I could have worded it in a MORE KINDER WAY…We are ALL entitled to AGREE to DISAGREE ??
Anonymous … EVERYONE VALUES YOUR COMMENTS on this site & YOU are a VERY, VERY KIND PERSON .
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:33 pm
You mean, all I had to do was call you CRAZY to get you to ease up a little?? Okay, next time I will START WITH THAT, lol! Good man, PB.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:36 pm
@JB …. YOU CAN CALL ME CRAZY !!! …SMUG, RUDE , CONDESCENDING .. BUT DONT CALL ME …. OHhh Should I Say This WORD??? …,, ANY of a SENSITIVE DISPOSITION ,Please Look Away NOW!!…..FAT!
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:40 pm
JB Reezner … You DESCRIBE ME as a CRAZY PERSON ??? ….
HAVE YOU BEEN SPEAKING to MY PSYCHIATRIST ????
HIS MAME is …. @ GARRET…. He has Diagnosed ME with … TOURETTES SYNDROME ???
I CANnOT ThINK WHY?? F***
Reply
JB Reezner says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Interestingly, Garrett admitted to starting the obesity thing. NOW he’s trying to offend the sufferers of Tourette Syndrome. I’m starting to think we may all just be pawns in Garrett’s evil little game. Leave us alone, Garrett! You sick sonnova…
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm
@ SHANTI …, DON’T CRAWL BACK INTO YOUR HOLE as you said in your earlier comment…. YOU are A Very FUNNY Lady & VERY CARING TOO!!!
& YES .., I was Probably a LITTLE??? SMUG & CONDESCENDING & Whatever Else you called me in MY Comments … You DIDNT MENTION ..HUMBLE???
BUT I STAND BY The FACTS & on that I WILL NOT CHANGE.
But TAKE CARE DEAR LADY!!
Pickled brain says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:00 pm
@JB Reezner . WHATS in a MAME??? Too MUCH FAT around my Eyes??
Tara says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:18 pm
PB called me a lady…. should I be offended? I’ll go look it up in the Bible according to T3. I am sure he will have a principal for me to consider regarding gender.
Garrett says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:42 pm
JB
Not evil. Just honest.
Ted says:
October 18, 2015 at 5:35 pm
The info that only elders are privy to says, “The spirit of the world
is leading people to blur the distinction between the genders as
never before.”
So no changes, no progress, every body has a predetermined
place and must remain in it. Women must be in “Subjection”
( An ugly word akin to domination and slavery ) No human should
be in subjection to another human in, in any way.
It’s the spirit of the world, that they malign, that has liberated
women from being no more than the property of men, to a
position of equality, and the worlds a better place in consequence.
I make no apologies for this, but in my opinion it’s the “spirit of
Religion” all Religion,that’s kept half the worlds population in a
position of inferiority . Let’s have more blurring, I’m all for it.
The day of the dinosaurs is over. It’s not the form of dress that
they’re concerned about, it’s just anything that threatens
their authority,
Reply
Wip it says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:12 pm
Interesting comments & a lot of the mark, the problem that we will get is that a lot of Elders are old school red necks, particualary here in the country, i know of a few who will love this, we had one elder on the platform make the statement, that a man with a goatee is willing to swing both ways, lucky i missed that one, what a about pinky rings, soemone needs to get into the compound and start taking pictures, what goes on behind closed doors.
Reply
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
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Posted on October 16, 2015
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous "tight pants" skit
Jimmy Fallon and Will Ferrell performing their famous “tight pants” skit
A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
tight-pants-lawThree things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
◾Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
◾Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
◾Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
◾Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
◾After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
◾Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
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← Betrayed and exploited: Dismissed ‘special pioneer’ lashes out against downsizing
234 Responses to The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
← Older Comments
anonymous says:
October 18, 2015 at 6:15 pm
Thank you all for your kind comments. I appreciate them very much.
Yesterday I was talking to my son who is thirty five years old and he was sobbing because he was so depressed. I live 120 miles away from him and I wanted to go to him so much and comfort him but I can’t.
My husband was diagnosed with kidney cancer on Friday, which has gone into his lungs and it is a death sentence.
My son loves my husband more than anything but when my son was growing up, my husband was an elder most of the time and my son didn’t have a father figure at all. He was treated badly by most of the boys in our congregation and I was mostly his only friend. He turned to food and gradually it added up and added up. He wants a girl friend so bad but the food wins out as his comfort. He has sleep apnea because of his weight and has a cpap machine to help him sleep but he is always tired.
He loves Jehovah and the “truth” more than anything in the world and if those people in his kingdom hall told him that he was too fat to represent the “truth”, it would literally kill him. That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to him and the thought of somebody doing that to him would make me hate them so much.
He wants to be thin so bad but he is also so depressed because of his weight. People don’t help when they think that making suggestions about how to lose weight is going to help an overweight person. It only adds to their depression.
People like that need to know that they are loved for the person they are, not for the person they are supposed to look like.
It doesn’t take much for a person suffering from depression to end their life. Nobody knows how it feels to be that depressed unless you have been there.
Nobody should be made to feel as if they aren’t as good as anybody else because either they are overweight or effeminate or any other reason.
I have never decided that I didn’t like somebody because of the way they dress or the way they look. I like people because of how nice they are.
If somebody doesn’t like me because they don’t think that I don’t fit the mold of what they think I should look like, then I don’t think that person is worth being my friend. I don’t need people like that in my life and I am happier being around people who accept me for the person I am inside, not outside.
That is the problem I had with the Watchtower Society all my life. They judge people for what they look like and how much money they have and what kind of house they live in and what kind of car they drive. As long as you have money and good clothes, they will like you and that is one of the things that never did sit well with me and I now see it as one of the things that tells me that the Watchtower is not a good religion by any stretch of the imagination and this latest diatribe about what makes a person good enough to go in service, only confirms in my mind what was in the back of my thoughts all those years I was in it. I am so glad I can see it for what it really is now.
More than anything I wished my son could see the “truth” for what it is, but he just won’t. I think if he could see it for what it is, his depression would go away.
One of the reasons he was sobbing yesterday is because it was Saturday morning and he was too “tired” to go in service. He was too tired because of his sleep apnea. He is always tired and my heart aches for him and yes I worry every day about the fact that he is eating himself to death.
That is my life and that is the life of a lot of people and it is so easy to talk about how people shouldn’t eat too much but none of us know what these people are going through and we should never judge people over what they look like or act like. Is the person nice or not? That is the question. Judging people like that who are already suffering from depression. could cause them to commit suicide and that is just one more reason why I hate the Watchtower Society so much because that is the kind of people that the Watchtower Society has turned people into. They think they have the right to judge everybody else except for themselves.
The mental pain stuff like this causes for already emotionally unstable people is unforgivable.
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Thank you for saying this Anonymous. There are some here, like me who are feeling exactly the same way. Catalina mentioned the intolerance. That is exactly what this despicable cult are full of.
I do not understand that it is not seen by those who are in it. They need to step outside and see the world with new eyes and then look back and see how evil that great theocractically spiritual and critical world really is. It is doomed but some here cannot see it.
When people hang onto something that is not real and it is trying to destroy them, then I just would so much like them to open up their eyes like your precious son. My son is caught up in it too. I don’t know if he is depressed as he doesn’t tell me a lot. Anyway, let us hope that the spell gets broken soon hey?
Reply
SwimmingWild says:
October 18, 2015 at 7:20 pm
@ anonymous – I was saddened to read your post, yet heartened by your exemplary open hearted approach to life and people around you – all of us who worked for the Borg have done the discriminatory thing (perhaps you never did, if you were wiser than I was), but many of us have lived to have a chance to be different.
You face a difficult time, and no-one knows what it’s like for you, your husband snd son. There’s a good chance you will be stronger than you imagined you could be and that your son, having a warm heart like you do, will find a way out of his predicament. He is the one that can start to take the steps and more so if he experiences bring accepted and trusted to take responsibility for himself. Perhaps some pyscho–therapeutic support might open the door for him. Like a previous post said any life he can build with real relationships outside would help to open up a crack and give him the courage to separate. That said, it needs him to make a small step, then another…
With best wishes and warm kind regards – SwimmingWild
Reply
Summer says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Im wondering what they will be saying when 2033 hits then like a ton of tights and leotards.
Just wondering
Reply
Wip it says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:24 pm
I think a lot of my close friends are starting to see the cracks, a lot of people are not that stupid, as to what it will take i don’t know, as i have to hide from them, as to what i really believe, in yesterdays PT, the speaker said we are in the last days of the last days, the fools just lick it up,he should have gone more dramatic, “we are in the last seconds of the last minutes of the last hours, As for the cruelty, maybe its a by product of unhappy people, who are beginning to worry about nothing happeneing, some people are pointing to Obama & Putin as the old king of the north/south thing again, well we did that in the 90’s with clinton, nothing happened
Reply
Finn Sawyer says:
October 18, 2015 at 8:45 pm
Pickled Brain,
When I first started reading the posts on this site, I appreciated the first few of your posts I read. I appreciated them as what I thought were expressions of a frustrated, damaged person that is suffering from post-JW issues. Your sarcastic posts are rarely cogent but I thought perhaps you were just venting and needed to blow off some steam.
Having now read many of your posts, I see little value in what you write. Your letter-case confusion and grammar problems would be easy to overlook if it appeared you were sincere. Are you really trying to communicate something meaningful or do you simply enjoy inserting drivel in between the well-intended posts of others on this forum?
I don’t post often but I do enjoy much of the content. Some of us are using this site to honestly exchange views and enjoy the community feel that has been created here. It would be great if current JWs could see from our posts that we have more to offer than venting venom and nonsense which the org has always associated with apostates. We are thinking, searching, conscientious people and not simply the vitriolic nutcases they have come to expect. Thanks to your posts, we’ll have more difficulty making that case.
Reply
Sister drifter UK says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:35 pm
I agree with you- so many posts are valuable and helpful but many are just ranting on and bitter which isn’t helpful. So you have to trawl through those and can sometimes miss those of value in the process.
I am trying to drift- or rather have drifted- without bitterness or anger. There are many good things I appreciate about my nearly 60 years as a witness. I believe that is possible – to retain your dignity without resorting to some of the insults that many who post here seem to not be able to resisit.
Maybe Loyd if he reads this can look carefully at what is being said and keep everyone back on track.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:15 am
[inflammatory/insulting/off-topic comment removed – see posting guidelines]
Pickled brain – you are welcome to join the discussion on JWsurvey, but I invest a lot of time and energy into making this website a success, and the comments sections on my articles is becoming somewhat graffitied by your angry, confrontational, capital-letter strewn comments. I am going to have to insist that you cease using capital letters in anything other than the first letter of each sentence, or I will delete any comments you make henceforth, or block you from posting if you persist. Hopefully it won’t come to that and you will start playing nicely, but you need to understand that this website is for everyone’s enjoyment – including active Witnesses – and the current tone of your comments is not conducive with the environment we are striving for. Thank you. – Lloyd
Reply
JOE SMITH says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:24 am
Pickled whatever – back off now please ! You exhibit some frightening psychological aberrations ! I don’t even read what you spew out here for a variety of reasons which have already been mentioned.
Reply
Sister drifter UK says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:58 am
I trawl through and ignor pickled brain.
So thankyou Lloyd for this.
This is a very useful site spoiled by these rants.
Is there any news on downsizing in UK?
I know many special pioneers who have retired and are still being kept ‘on the list’ and I am concerned for their future financially.
Reply
Donald duck says:
October 19, 2015 at 12:16 am
I agree, personally I have a pretty good feel for people and pb wasn’t on my favorite list… I’m only saying this because I feel strongly about his biased comments, especially towards anonymous…
Reply
Pickled brain says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:07 am
@Donald duck & @Joe Smith .. & Excelsior
JESUS said at GENESIS 19v4-6 …GOD made MALE & FEMALE in the BEGINNING !!
Also the Apostle Paul Condemned Homosexuality … MEN who Lie with MEN & also Women who Lie with Women ..,
It is UN-NATURAL…. The HUMAN RACE wouldn’t have STARTED & COULD NOT Have CONTINUED!!!
.., OHhhh DEAR … I AM WAITING TO BE SLAUGHTERED for this …IF SO??
I WOULD Prefer EXECUTION on a CROSS rather than a STAKE as it SHOWS OFF ..MY TORSO BETTER!!
I EXPECT to be CENSORED for This as it Probably goes against the Rules on this SITE!!
I
Why Don’t FAT HOMOSEXUALS have a SENSE of HUMOUR….
Ohh ! OHhh … I FEEL the KNIVES COMING OUT FOR ME!!
I Would Like Engraved on my HEADSTONE …
MONTY PYTHON RULES…. MAY PICKLED BRAIN BE RESURRECTED!!
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Anonymous says:
October 18, 2015 at 9:35 pm
I feel like my life has been ruined by the organization
I was born in “the truth” I’m a guy 23 years old. My dad was a ministerial servant and my mom was a regular pioneer for many years they are very spiritual. However the problem is I’m gay and nobody knows
For years I thought I could just push those feelings behind me and focus on “serving Jehovah”, but I’m beginning to realize that all I have been taught was a lie. It all started by hearing members of the governing body give those ridiculous and outrageous comments regarding tight pants I believe it was Morris anyways it shocked me because I grew up going to a Spanish congregation so I never heard any of them speak before and it sounded so weird coming from a man that is supposedly “annointed”. And with the child abuse cases piling up, you know 99% of the witnesses ESPECIALLY non-English speaking witnesses are completely clueless and will never believe it or say Satan is behind it. Anyways now I feel so alone and depressed all my life I never had friends not at school (wasn’t allowed) or at the hall all the teenagers at the hall had their clicks and I guess I did not fit in and since my brother was disfellowshipped I was seen as bad association ….whatever
The thing I HATE the most about myself is not going to college since that is REALLY Frowned upon in the congregation because according to them all we need is the theocratic ministry school (which is going away I believe) my parents would not have supported me. But this article just opened my eyes
I read on the young people ask book that if you had homosexual desires it was ok but just not act on it, but now the society thinks they can control people’s behavior if it seems not according to their gender like what?? I’m a guy who you can’t tell I’m gay unless you ask me and I know there are many more like me in those halls so that is ridiculous. Also Watchtower is full of #%* scaring everybody about Armaggeddon, there are evil evil people in this world and to think God is going to destroy me because I’m not in my seat at the Kingdom Hall or because I love another Man? And I also hate the attitude the brothers have if you are young and not a pioneer or a ministerial servant you are looked down upon and they will not hang out with you because you are bad association. Those elders could care less what happens to you even though in their mind they know you will be destroyed…sick
But I love my mother it breaks my heart just to even think about telling her the truth
I’m in deep #%*
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Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 10:35 pm
Anonymous, I had an uncle who was gay. He was born in 1921. He died at the old age of 92. He was in a long term relationship. I liked my uncle and his mate. They never stopped thinking of me as their little girl. I knew they were gay because my mom told me they were gay. I grew up convensed there is nothing wrong with being gay because of my uncles. I want to give you the good advice my uncle explained to me. He said he never allowed his moral compass to be out of control. He was in two long term relationships during his life time because he out lived his first mate. I have learned to not tell people what I know they can’t handle. People can use info like a weapon. What I mean is it can be hard to be a private person when you are taught to tell everything. Your depression is caused by what you know you will lose. jW friends and family are close conditionally. It’s more important to be respected than liked. Jw mentality lacks in giving respect. If you end up having to let go of what you know replace it with all the good you have learned. Take the good you have learned from the religion with you in your new life. You will be happy once you find a man with your kind of background. Life moves forward. I really don’t believe anyone knows what the afterlife is really like.
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Catalina says:
October 18, 2015 at 11:18 pm
Anonymous, I want to add something to what I said. I was so depressed when my family turned their backs on me I went to Kaiser Permanente Psychiatry department for help. Kaiser Permanente is a medical clinic. I’m glad I went. Going there helped me in a huge way. Now I feel normal. It worked. Get the support you need.
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Meredith J says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:00 am
Anonymous, you certainly are in a predicament. I am certainly no expert on any of this but even though you feel you are in a unique spot, I am sure you can get some help.
The first thing that I would suggest is to not tell any JW’s how you feel. I mean even your dear mum. You see Anonymous, if you have witnessed the kind of judgmental attitude that has been coming through on this forum, then you find that this is the kind of rebuttal you will get from people in the truth. They will no doubt shoot you down in flames which would be terrible, saying nothing about your self-esteem which would be in the gutter. Don’t tell them anything. They do not need to know.
Meanwhile I would plan my escape if I were you. I know that is a lot to take in but there is no way, you will be accepted by these people if you ‘come out’. Anyway, sounds like you may not be absolutely sure anyway. But whatever your sexuality, I think you need to do what Catalina suggested and get professional help. Secondly, I would try and get some training, or do a course, something where you would be able to help get yourself a good job if it is possible. This might take a while but it is a positive step to your freedom.
And maybe after you’ve sorted yourself out properly and left, then you can tell your mum when you are safely away from the clutches of the Watchtower. That is how I would tackle it. I am not you, and you need to sort yourself out. You sound like a good boy and I do not want to see you a victim of the Watchtower. Play your cards close to your chest and decide what you are going to do. That is what I would suggest anywayand take care.
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odisius says:
October 19, 2015 at 1:12 am
The truth is this…ive read alot of ex jws stuff and post and seen videos and ive read about the history of russel and Rutherford. Most ex jws simply put hate law froom what ive seen and heard from their own videos,they taunt,they say bad words they mock they lie of who they are when they go to meetings to the brothers ,and yet alot them seem to claim that they hate lies when they hide who they are at meetings. I am a df person but i always keep it real, i left because i wanted to do everything that was bad and i did follow satans course i felt just like him.remember this fact even tho saul was the king of israel jehovah rejected him but david did no wrong to saul yet were they not jehovahs people even tho saul was king? We shall all render a account to God wether Governing Body member or not remember this fact.
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KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
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Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
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Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
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Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
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Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
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frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
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Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
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Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
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frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
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Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
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4 Oct
LaQuori @quori77
https://youtu.be/skcRUYRidPY #exjwlivesmatter #exjw a message of love from us #apostates to those #jehovahswitnesses still in the organization
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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5 Oct
Malachi Sawyer @malachi_sawyer
@jwupdates Confused by all the changes lately? Visit the rabbit hole. https://youtu.be/skcRUYRidPY
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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1 Oct
JW.borg @jw_borg
@cedarsjwsurvey Have you seen this http://i.imgur.com/4j4x8yh.png?Sorry …, not in english. Letters to Special Pioneers, releasing them as of Jan 1st.
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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