AtheistNexus.org disccussio on members being lbieral reposted in bold and italicized print

Why are so many atheists here so liberal?
Posted by Michael Pianko on June 27, 2015 at 10:35pm in Water Cooler
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The most frequent posters on this website are so over-liberal. Not that politics has much to do with the fact that there is no god and religion is non-sense.

In general:
Liberals hate the second amendment of the United States constitution, the right to own firearms. Now I am Jewish according to heritage, and what do you want me to do when the nazis or the ku klux klan (or anybody) break into my home?

Liberals like to create victims. They whine and complain that there are so many poor people. So rather than find a way to put them to work, they would rather steel from productive people and give it to the unproductive poor people so they can continue to not work.

Global warming or climate change is imaginary. The average world temperature has not risen enough to make any difference, and the earth always heals itself. I am against air pollution as much as anybody else and the world is not going to turn into hell any time soon.

As for discussions about the confederate flag, I don't necessarily care whether it is displayed or not, and what about jim crow laws and prejudice against black people in the North? A flag is merely a piece of fabric until you check the owners pulse and give them a lie detector test, you don't know what kind of person they are. Just suddenly replacing one piece of fabric with a different piece of fabric with a different design doesn't mean whoever displays the new fabric with the new design has the attitudes you want them to have, is not prejudiced against some people, and so on.

I'm a more of a libertarian conservative than the typical republican dogma, and a small government conservative.

Everything that can at all possibly be handled by private organizations should be handled by private organizations and not the government.

Abortion is fine with me.

I'm fine with homosexuals getting married in the sense that I don't want to be prejudiced against homosexuals. From my viewpoint as a typical person, marriage shouldn't exist because it was invented in order for religions to make you have to get permission from the religion before you engage in man-woman relationship behavior because the religion wants you to have children and teach your children your religion. And you shouldn't have to get permission from a government before you engage in a man-woman relationship and the government shouldn't be prejudice against homosexuals and there shouldn't be such a thing as benefits you get after you get a piece of paper that says you are married that you can't just get without a piece of paper that says you are married. A lot of atheists still think about man-woman relationships like religious people do.

Liberals hate capitalism. They despise people who do work and make a lot more money than them. The more money rich people pay in taxes, the less money they have left to hire people. Have you ever worked for a poor person? All taxes are theft or extortion.

I'm sure there are more ways liberals want to screw up society but I think this is enough for one discussion.


Tags: liberalism



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 Permalink Reply by Jas Brimstone yesterday

Why did you bother to start/ask this when it is abundantly clear from your OP that you have no intention of actually listening to/learning from any of the answers or rebuttals to your preconceived notions anyway?
As for the very core question I would answer simply, "because skepticism and empiricism, when rationally and logically followed through, generally lead to more 'liberal' conclusions."
But it's clear from your OP that you won't believe that no matter how much evidence I, or anyone else, put forth to support it, so this is likely the last you'll hear from me.  I try not to make a habit of talking to walls.
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck yesterday

Michael, do you allow progressives into your world?
People use dogma (such as All taxes are theft or extortion) to protect themselves from reality.

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo yesterday

Tom, you write correctly, "All taxes are theft or extortion" and I am guilty of using the "all" word ... and for effect. I agree with you about dogma.
 
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck yesterday

Whoops, I didn't make clear that All taxes are theft or extortion is Michael's favorite dogma. He has stated it in many of his posts.
My favorite ideas about dogma include:
◾Someone else's My karma ran over his dogma, and
◾My Changing dogmas is easier than giving up the need for dogma.

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 Permalink Reply by Gerald Payne yesterday

Just what I'd expect to here from a ''libertarian conservative''.
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck yesterday

Gerald, you understand America's political labels better then I understand those in the UK.

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 Permalink Reply by Pat yesterday

None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see. Matthew Henry.


Have a nice life in your cocoon which is impervious to ideas or evidence.
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 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller yesterday

Michael, I don't hate the 2nd Amendment, but I think the absolutism which currently seems to surround it has virtually nothing to do with reality.  I wrote the following some time back, but I continue to stand behind it as a truism:
When the Second Amendment was penned, it took a skilled rifleman roughly 90 seconds to fire his weapon, reload it, and fire again. If he had two such weapons, his fire rate might be slightly faster, but he ultimately still ran into that same issue of reloading. Certainly that weapon was deadly, but its lethality as regards more than one target was highly limited. A modern-day submachine gun, by comparison, can accomplish that same process in roughly 60 milliseconds (for a fire rate of 1,000 rounds per minute), and even a semi-automatic weapon achieves fire rates which so outstrip that of the Minutemen of the American Revolution that a comparison would be ridiculous. The lethality is increased by orders of magnitude, yet the NRA continues to treat the right to bear arms as unmodifiable under any circumstances.
As to capitalism, I have no problem with it so long as it recognizes the potential for money to supplant the voting power of the individual, as the Citizens United and McCutcheon decisions have made possible. Certainly, the profit motive is a powerful one and one which has helped to make the US stand apart among nations, but when the rich become so empowered that they can overrun the rights and desires of others by the mere presence of their wealth, I have a serious problem.
 I'm not about creating victims; I'm about recognizing wrongs done and applying correction. I'm about the rights of the people - ALL the people. I'm a liberal and I'm an atheist, and I don't blink when I say either.
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo yesterday

Loren, I forgot to include the potential for money to influence elections. Thanks for reminding me. I like, again, the 2nd Amendment statement!.
I especially like "I'm about recognizing wrongs done and applying correction. "
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn yesterday

I'm a liberal of the Libertarian kind. My life's journey has brought me here. Once upon a time I was just the oposite of what I am today. Acting upon the stage of life I have played all the roles. Never once have I thought we should take from the rich and give to the poor. I have, however, thought that the poor should be given a chance to become rich. In this life you must learn to make do with what you have. I do not hate capitalism nor despise other systems.
I have been married and also have just lived with my other half without matrimony. You need lawyers for the one but not always for the other. Anyone can see that my choices here had nothing to do with a god.
Abortion is a choice. Jesus said nothing about it and it was also existent in his time. Why the nonsense about it now? Theists are crazy!
Global warming is not imaginary. There is evidence of it in our ancient past also and it came in cycles. That doesn't mean we should just ignore it today. It can cause some serious problems for us.
Confederate flags, Nazi flags, etc. should all go as well as the hatred that surrounds them. If this goes along well the next step might be religious symbols. Let's hope so. It's hard to imagine a person flying the Confederate flag because of "his deep Southern roots." Somebody is lying here.
Do I want to "create a victim?" That depends. Anybody that has had something bad done to them, and especially done to them deliberately, is a victim. None of us should become victims.
Oh, I forgot the 2nd amendment and the right to own firearms. I love guns! In my earlier life I was a sharpshooter with a six gun. I don't shoot much any longer and I feel there is too much gun violence. We need to do something about that issue. Today fruitcakes are getting guns and even going into churches to kill people.
Stick around, Michael, and live a little longer. You might find that some of your views will change.

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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck yesterday

Michael Penn, fifty cents says Michael Pianko's views won't change during what remains of 2015.

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo yesterday

Why are so many atheists here so liberal?
Response to Michael Pianko on June 27, 2015. Atheist Nexus, Water Cooler
Religion is political. It defines who is in and who is out and who is up and who is down. If religious have wealth it is because their god gave them entitlements. What happens to those who were not born with the correct birthright?
Yes, liberals tend to not like firearms especially those terribly powerful guns and bullets that can pierce bullet-proof material, or those machine guns with rapid repeat fire capabilities, or guns that will destroy a deer with one shot, leaving no usable meat for consumption. There are those who do not seem to have the strength of character to be able to stand up to an opponent. With a firearm, they are Rambo! There are so many pretenses as to why a person needs heavy duty firearms. Why? You tell me. I don’t understand the mentality. I also object to firearms that are not locked away out of reach of children, or are available to depressed people who choose death or murder to solve their feelings.
Liberals don’t create victims we report about them. Do you always blame the messenger instead of looking at the underlying causes of victimhood? You may call it whining and complaining. You could be witnessing caring and compassion. You so glibly say that people steal from productive people. What do you have to say about the slave owner who made fortunes from the labor of others they enslaved. Or what about the wealthy person who can’t do all the work for him or herself and hires others to do the work? People who produce the goods and services that are sold for a profit. Too often workers do not share in the profit they made possible. Do you agree with that system? Have you noticed how so many Mom-and-Pop stores closed shop because they couldn’t compete with bigger corporations? Big organizations can buy goods from those people who work for extremely low wages and don’t share in the profits. Often workers do not have protection from fire, or exploitation, or enslavement.
There are very productive people who do work that others don’t want to do. The caregivers who care for children and elderly when families are not willing to wipe bottoms and spoon feed those who cannot feed themselves. Does that make any sense to you? If one needs help, he or she should be obligated to pay living wages to those who are willing and able to do those chores.
So, you think global warming is imaginary? Have you not read the scientific literature that reveals an obvious change taking place. Why is the weather changing? Oh! You don’t think it is! Yes, the Earth always heals itself, but that does not mean there will be no extinctions. Do you think Homo sapiens could have survived the other Big Five mass extinction events? Will humans survive the next one?
Words matter, symbols matter, flags matter. I have heard so many cockamamie stories about the War Flag of Virginia symbolizing strength and power. Yes, strength and power do enslave human beings, legally, and make fortunes off their labor. Have you ever considered how much money it would have cost to hire all those slaves. Slaves grew the cotton and corn and tobacco and whatever other crops slave-owners needed and slave-owners made profits. Could the slave owners have done the work themselves? There were so many things wrong with slavery, I find it hard for any educated person to not be revolted by the practices. Of course, there were injustices in the North. The whole corruption of exploitation and manipulation occurred in the USA and it continues. We claim to be a nation built on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Ha! That is funny! The original stated, “life, liberty and the pursuit of property”.
Why did Jefferson change "property" to the "pursuit of happiness”?
A flag is a piece of cloth, you say! A word is just an assemblage of letters, some say. Both cloth and letters mean something. They represent ideas, beliefs, and values. Some are healthy, some are deadly. I like to think in my country cloth and letters stand for equality and justice.
You claim to be a libertarian conservative. Does that mean you make decisions based on what is profitable for you without paying attention to the consequences of your decisions have on others and on the Earth?
There are some things that private enterprise does not handle well. Getting water and electricity to everyone are just two thing. Others, of course, are police and fire protection and garbage collection. I do not believe hunger and poverty can or should be managed by private enterprise. Some people are poor for reasons beyond their control. Diseases, injuries, disabilities, youth, old age describe a few of the classes that need help. It should not be the job of churches or charity to provide basic needs for these people. These produce social costs that a society must support. I am of the opinion that private institutions should not pay health care costs. I support a single payer health plans and my fear is we move farther away from that process.
Abortion is none of your business.
Homosexuals finally begin to get legal protection and I hope the hate crimes committed against them are prosecuted and harsh remedies result. I agree that religion is the foundation upon which marriage exists. That situation needs change and very soon. Get the religious out of the institution of marriage.
I am a capitalist, but not a laissez-faire capitalist. It is too easy to exploit and manipulate people. When an individual works full time to produce goods and services to be sold for profits that go to the owner of capital, and wages are too low or when profits are not shared with those who produce, the workers cannot afford to buy things. If fair wages existed, there would be more money available to more consumers and capitalism would thrive far better than under the present conditions.
I despise people who hire others to do the work they are not able or willing to do and don’t share the profits.
The more money rich people take, the more there is need for taxes to help pay people who work and do not receive a living wage. If money were spread according to the work performed, there would be more money spent and the demand for goods and services would go up.
Have you ever worked for a rich person? All wage-labor is theft or extortion.
There are other ways libertarians want to screw up society, but I think this is enough for one discussion.
 
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                     http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/why-are-so-many-atheists-here-so-liberal?xg_source=activity&id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2615391&page=1#comments












 












Why are so many atheists here so liberal?
Posted by Michael Pianko on June 27, 2015 at 10:35pm in Water Cooler
View Discussions
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The most frequent posters on this website are so over-liberal. Not that politics has much to do with the fact that there is no god and religion is non-sense.

In general:
Liberals hate the second amendment of the United States constitution, the right to own firearms. Now I am Jewish according to heritage, and what do you want me to do when the nazis or the ku klux klan (or anybody) break into my home?

Liberals like to create victims. They whine and complain that there are so many poor people. So rather than find a way to put them to work, they would rather steel from productive people and give it to the unproductive poor people so they can continue to not work.

Global warming or climate change is imaginary. The average world temperature has not risen enough to make any difference, and the earth always heals itself. I am against air pollution as much as anybody else and the world is not going to turn into hell any time soon.

As for discussions about the confederate flag, I don't necessarily care whether it is displayed or not, and what about jim crow laws and prejudice against black people in the North? A flag is merely a piece of fabric until you check the owners pulse and give them a lie detector test, you don't know what kind of person they are. Just suddenly replacing one piece of fabric with a different piece of fabric with a different design doesn't mean whoever displays the new fabric with the new design has the attitudes you want them to have, is not prejudiced against some people, and so on.

I'm a more of a libertarian conservative than the typical republican dogma, and a small government conservative.

Everything that can at all possibly be handled by private organizations should be handled by private organizations and not the government.

Abortion is fine with me.

I'm fine with homosexuals getting married in the sense that I don't want to be prejudiced against homosexuals. From my viewpoint as a typical person, marriage shouldn't exist because it was invented in order for religions to make you have to get permission from the religion before you engage in man-woman relationship behavior because the religion wants you to have children and teach your children your religion. And you shouldn't have to get permission from a government before you engage in a man-woman relationship and the government shouldn't be prejudice against homosexuals and there shouldn't be such a thing as benefits you get after you get a piece of paper that says you are married that you can't just get without a piece of paper that says you are married. A lot of atheists still think about man-woman relationships like religious people do.

Liberals hate capitalism. They despise people who do work and make a lot more money than them. The more money rich people pay in taxes, the less money they have left to hire people. Have you ever worked for a poor person? All taxes are theft or extortion.

I'm sure there are more ways liberals want to screw up society but I think this is enough for one discussion.


Tags: liberalism



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 Permalink Reply by Jerry Wesner yesterday

Joan, you're beautiful.  If I weren't already married to the right woman, I give you a chance to turn me down.  Great response.
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 22 hours ago

Jerry, we can be fast friends and I would like to include your wife as well.
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 Permalink Reply by Gerald Payne yesterday

Nice one Joan.
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 22 hours ago

Thanks, Gerald!
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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 yesterday

Joan and Loren.......I have to admit, that I could not have done a better job than what you have written.....Very eloquent and you touched upon so many issues........I agree wholeheartedly,with you, and also  condemn the symbols of hate like the confederate flag.....The southern rebels say it represents their heritage, that is nothing to be proud of....The South lost the Civil War, it is time they come to grips with it...We are the United States of America, and the South is a part of it, they need  to remember that....Slavery has been repudiated and to rub the faces of our African Americans  in the confederate flag every day, flying over the Capital of SC, is a constant reminder of our  bitter and troubled past......Loren explained beautifully how the second amendment is being abused today and that the weapons  the Minutemen used in the Revolutionary War were no match to the powerful auto and semi automatic weapons of today, which can kill so many people without re-loading..........I  just can not understand how America is so far behind in gun control compared  to other well developed Nations.......I applaud you both for your thoughtful responses.....
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck yesterday


... I  just can not understand how America is so far behind in gun control compared  to other well developed Nations....
FT (and others), I don't understand why America is so far behind other well-developed nations in violence control.

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

Violence is such a critical subject for me, as you know. Somehow we have to get a handle on it as a nation. 
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

Thank you, Freethinker31. We have joined in some very challenging debates over the years and I appreciate your comment.
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck yesterday

Joan, I'm a progressive -- way out to the left of liberal -- and with a little effort I can be as mean as any conservative.

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

Tom, you are tough, and you have had some significant battles. You can handle the young'ns better than most.
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 Permalink Reply by Bertold Brautigan yesterday
Political ideologies are different in content but not in kind from religious ideologies. I'm with Reginald Perrin: for every person who believes in something, there's another person who believes the opposite, so what's the point? I believe in not believing.
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck 23 hours ago


I believe in not believing.
Bertold, I don't believe you.

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                     http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/why-are-so-many-atheists-here-so-liberal?xg_source=activity&id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2615391&page=2#comments












 




Why are so many atheists here so liberal?
Posted by Michael Pianko on June 27, 2015 at 10:35pm in Water Cooler
View Discussions
.



The most frequent posters on this website are so over-liberal. Not that politics has much to do with the fact that there is no god and religion is non-sense.

In general:
Liberals hate the second amendment of the United States constitution, the right to own firearms. Now I am Jewish according to heritage, and what do you want me to do when the nazis or the ku klux klan (or anybody) break into my home?

Liberals like to create victims. They whine and complain that there are so many poor people. So rather than find a way to put them to work, they would rather steel from productive people and give it to the unproductive poor people so they can continue to not work.

Global warming or climate change is imaginary. The average world temperature has not risen enough to make any difference, and the earth always heals itself. I am against air pollution as much as anybody else and the world is not going to turn into hell any time soon.

As for discussions about the confederate flag, I don't necessarily care whether it is displayed or not, and what about jim crow laws and prejudice against black people in the North? A flag is merely a piece of fabric until you check the owners pulse and give them a lie detector test, you don't know what kind of person they are. Just suddenly replacing one piece of fabric with a different piece of fabric with a different design doesn't mean whoever displays the new fabric with the new design has the attitudes you want them to have, is not prejudiced against some people, and so on.

I'm a more of a libertarian conservative than the typical republican dogma, and a small government conservative.

Everything that can at all possibly be handled by private organizations should be handled by private organizations and not the government.

Abortion is fine with me.

I'm fine with homosexuals getting married in the sense that I don't want to be prejudiced against homosexuals. From my viewpoint as a typical person, marriage shouldn't exist because it was invented in order for religions to make you have to get permission from the religion before you engage in man-woman relationship behavior because the religion wants you to have children and teach your children your religion. And you shouldn't have to get permission from a government before you engage in a man-woman relationship and the government shouldn't be prejudice against homosexuals and there shouldn't be such a thing as benefits you get after you get a piece of paper that says you are married that you can't just get without a piece of paper that says you are married. A lot of atheists still think about man-woman relationships like religious people do.

Liberals hate capitalism. They despise people who do work and make a lot more money than them. The more money rich people pay in taxes, the less money they have left to hire people. Have you ever worked for a poor person? All taxes are theft or extortion.

I'm sure there are more ways liberals want to screw up society but I think this is enough for one discussion.


Tags: liberalism



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 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller 23 hours ago

Gad, do you believe this guy?!?  [grin!]
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 Permalink Reply by Richard Haynes yesterday

For the record, all are welcome on Nexus.
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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

For the record, healthy debate strengthens Nexus.
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 Permalink Reply by jay H 23 hours ago

Years ago, I considered myself a liberal. Over the years, however, I pretty much hit the wall on my 'open mindedness.' Like the old adage, 'don't be so open minded your brains fall out', it got to the point that complete idiocy was being sold as 'modern thinking'. That's when I jumped ship.
One problem is whatever definition of liberal you are using. The classic liberal of the late 19th century is more like the libertarian of today: individual freedom and personal responsibility with minimum government intervention. Over the years the term has taken on (particularly in the US) the 'progressive' mantra, where the state cares and guides (and effectively controls) the individual. The modern liberal concept is moving farther away from actual freedom and responsibility and becoming more the statist world envisioned by Bismark.
Back in the 60s when I was young, the cry was for free speech, and freedom. Yet now it's 'liberal' colleges that are imposing speech codes, 'safe zones', re-education of dissenters. Contrary positions are quickly defined as 'hate speech' or speech that causes distress for certain classes. Just look at the Tim Hunt fiasco: there are things that 'cannot be said' without mobs demanding your head. (Now the new buzz term 'microagression' seeks to even further shut down any expression that is not currently correct (google it if you haven't encountered this madness)
It's the lefties who 'selflessly' declare that they would 'gladly' pay more taxes for government service (as if we need that) but there generosity is with other people's money (including, unfortunately their and everyone else's descendant's money).. they want us all to pay. I am reminded of the definition of American liberalism as 'ideas so good that participation is mandatory'.
It's the liberals who typically play the race card, and if it doesn't fit, redefine racism, or sexism, or classism to bring it to the discussion. It's the liberals who give us all a lecture on 'correct pronouns' when dealing with people like Jenner. Funny that when a surgically modified man with delusions dresses up as a sexual caricature of woman, even a lot of feminists are anxious to go along with this charade. [Make no mistake, he is certainly free to follow whatever fantasy he wants, just don't expect everyone to buy in]. Kind of odd, though when Rachel Dolzal decided to change races, the crowd pretty much lynched her. How is one different from another.
[A few years ago, at a local humanist group  meeting, two elderly women argued loudly and almost came to physical blows. One had been a lifelong communist sympathizer hunted by the FBI in the US, the other had fled the communist government of Hungary. That was an evening]


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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck 22 hours ago


...the 'progressive' mantra, where the state cares and guides (and effectively controls) the individual.
jay, the Republican Party's evangelicals are putting a lot of effort into controlling the individual. I hope you're not supporting their efforts.
Many conservatives also oppose democracy; they call it socialism.

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

Jay, Times have changed. When our nation formed, 85% of the labor force was in farming, now it is less than two%. Then the majority worked in mining and manufacturing, then it was technology and now we are into robotics. With each change, fewer and fewer humans were needed to do the jobs. Jobs disappeared even as the population exploded. We now have more people able and willing to work and fewer jobs to meet the demand. What are we to do with all that extra labor?
Discrimination exists and so many who suffer being left out. Whether because of race, or gender, or age, or religion, or whatever, the left-out grow in number and with the cheap foreign labor even more of our labor force hunt for fewer jobs.
Tell me, what are we to do with the excess labor?
What are we to do about the crumbling infrastructure?
What are we to do about the growing gap between wealth and poverty?
Should we remain silent, or debate these important issues and try to find solutions?
Why in the world did you bring up Jenner? He is another wedge issue that takes us away from the things that matter.
What are we going to do about food production and distribution?
Where are the unemployed going to get the resources to buy food?
What are we going to do about the food being thrown out, wasted?
Lots of challenges! Challenge always means opportunity!
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko 23 hours ago
Your freedom of speech should allow you to display any sort of flags or slogans or symbols you want and our freedom of speech should allow us to protest and kvech our hearts out about it, short of blatant harassment of you personally.
 My car insurance costs $4,319 every 6 months. I don't make enough money. Everybody has some reason they "need" more money. I get a raise in pay every so often and it is never enough. How do I know my company can afford to pay me more? Just maybe if the government didn't steel from my boss he would have more to pay his employees. Now who should I kvetch to about it and what difference will it make? If the government didn't steel from you, you could give to charities when you feel bad about poor people. It is imoral to pay somebody more just because they "need" it. The more work you do, the more you deserve.
 Do you purposefully only buy from "mom and pop" businesses in order to avoid feeling too guilty about yourself even for the products the big businesses can sell for cheaper? Big businesses often have better supply chain management systems and big businesses can often save money by procuring their products from their suppliers in bigger quantities, passing the savings on to the end consumers.
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 Permalink Reply by Gerald Payne 23 hours ago

If the government didn't steal from you, you could give to charities when you feel bad about poor people.

 
The Victorians had a word for social justice, they called it philanthropy. How close the latter came to the former would depend on which side of the social divide you were on. The rich obviously found philanthropy very self-satisfying with the poor probably finding it better than nothing.  Dickens, Darwin, and many more fought for social justice in the nineteenth century with little success against a parliament that abolished slavery only when it was proven to be uneconomic. The people who dominated parliament at that time could be likened to any group of people who’ve ever been part of an advantaged minority, todays oligarchs would fit the bill nicely.                                                                                           

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

Gerald, good point.
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn 23 hours ago

Why is your car insurance so high? What the hell are you driving? My conscience wouldn't let me pay that much for car insurance but it would let me buy any product I want as cheaply as possible. Some people buy expensive crap and brag about it. I'm the other way around.
As for "mom and pop" businesses I'm sorry to see a lot of them go but I have no guilty feelings about it. Some of them had good hamberger joints.
"Your freedom of speech should allow you to display any sort of flags or slogans or symbols you want"
No, I don't think so. Once freedom of speech is interpretated as anything other than what you actually say it can be declared as anything. Freedom of speech is me telling you what I believe. It doesn't involve flag flying or symbols.
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck 22 hours ago


Freedom of speech ... doesn't involve flag flying or symbols.
Michael, the folks at SCOTUS see a more inclusive freedom of speech.
Their view includes, for instance, school kids wearing armbands to protest the US role in the VN War, draft-age kids burning their draft cards, and even women who dance nude.

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 Permalink Reply by Gerald Payne 23 hours ago

Just maybe if the government didn't steal from my boss he would have more to pay his employees.
Who let you in on that heart-breaking circumstance? I'll bet it was your boss.
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                     http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/why-are-so-many-atheists-here-so-liberal?xg_source=activity&id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2615391&page=3#comments



















Why are so many atheists here so liberal?
Posted by Michael Pianko on June 27, 2015 at 10:35pm in Water Cooler
View Discussions
.



The most frequent posters on this website are so over-liberal. Not that politics has much to do with the fact that there is no god and religion is non-sense.

In general:
Liberals hate the second amendment of the United States constitution, the right to own firearms. Now I am Jewish according to heritage, and what do you want me to do when the nazis or the ku klux klan (or anybody) break into my home?

Liberals like to create victims. They whine and complain that there are so many poor people. So rather than find a way to put them to work, they would rather steel from productive people and give it to the unproductive poor people so they can continue to not work.

Global warming or climate change is imaginary. The average world temperature has not risen enough to make any difference, and the earth always heals itself. I am against air pollution as much as anybody else and the world is not going to turn into hell any time soon.

As for discussions about the confederate flag, I don't necessarily care whether it is displayed or not, and what about jim crow laws and prejudice against black people in the North? A flag is merely a piece of fabric until you check the owners pulse and give them a lie detector test, you don't know what kind of person they are. Just suddenly replacing one piece of fabric with a different piece of fabric with a different design doesn't mean whoever displays the new fabric with the new design has the attitudes you want them to have, is not prejudiced against some people, and so on.

I'm a more of a libertarian conservative than the typical republican dogma, and a small government conservative.

Everything that can at all possibly be handled by private organizations should be handled by private organizations and not the government.

Abortion is fine with me.

I'm fine with homosexuals getting married in the sense that I don't want to be prejudiced against homosexuals. From my viewpoint as a typical person, marriage shouldn't exist because it was invented in order for religions to make you have to get permission from the religion before you engage in man-woman relationship behavior because the religion wants you to have children and teach your children your religion. And you shouldn't have to get permission from a government before you engage in a man-woman relationship and the government shouldn't be prejudice against homosexuals and there shouldn't be such a thing as benefits you get after you get a piece of paper that says you are married that you can't just get without a piece of paper that says you are married. A lot of atheists still think about man-woman relationships like religious people do.

Liberals hate capitalism. They despise people who do work and make a lot more money than them. The more money rich people pay in taxes, the less money they have left to hire people. Have you ever worked for a poor person? All taxes are theft or extortion.

I'm sure there are more ways liberals want to screw up society but I think this is enough for one discussion.


Tags: liberalism



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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 21 hours ago

Reply to Michael Pianko, Sunday, June 28, 2015
Yes, we have freedom of speech and the nazi flag and the Virginia war flag certainly have a right to be flown. Does that mean I have to remain silent in the face of the insults? I will protest, even as they protest.
I am sorry your car insurance costs $4,319 every six months. Housing costs more and so does food. Fuel may be low now, but it is unstable in pricing. It is difficult to create a budget and stick to it as inflation eats up our income faster than workers get the cost of living raises.
Government takes our money and uses it for maintaining the largest military in the world. That needs to be challenged by the citizens. The cost of elections takes money out of citizens’ pockets and we can’t keep up with the super-rich who buy elections. Corporations being persons destroys a level playing field. All these need to be challenged by citizens.
You may call citizen protest “kvetching”. I call it using citizens’ freedom of speech. We need more protests and fewer wedge issues.
No, I do not advocate paying workers more because they need it, I advocate more because they deserve it. Why should I give to charities when the reason we have so many unemployed and underemployed and people in real financial need when the reason they are poor is because of systemic problems. If our government system responded to the needs of people, and the needs of our infrastructure and if wealthy paid their fair share in taxes, I would not have to carry the burden for those who do not care.
I buy from Mom and Pop stores because I get better service, higher quality merchandise and develop a relationship with them that I don’t get from box stores. I don’t do it because I feel guilty. Why should I feel guilty? I know Mom and Pop businesses can procure their products from Fair Trade and ecologically responsible sources.
If there is any guilt, it not mine.

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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck 17 hours ago


...you could give to charities when you feel bad about poor people.
History tells how some of that went down. During the years between our 1787 Federal Convention and the revolution in France, some of that nation's nobility spoke of how they felt bad about their poor.
The Prince of Conti and the Counts of Artois, Conde, Bourbon  and Enghien: Let the people desist from their attacks on our  rights, for our rights are as ancient as the Monarchy and as  unchangeable. Let the people confine themselves to seeking to  reduce the taxation by which they are overburdened. If we  recognize among them citizens who are dear to us, we may from  generosity of mind consent to renouncing our fiscal  privileges and bear the burden of public taxation in equal measure.
(I found that about 30 years ago while studying French history. I saw no mention of what happened to those guys. A few years later they might have lost their heads.)
And here in the US  of A, our current oligarchs feel badly enough about the poor to want them to have jobs, health care, education, voting rights, and so much more.

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 Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo 1 hour ago

Tom, we see happening now what happened then. Your quote was true of that group of wealthy as it is for our group of wealthy.

If we recognize among them citizens who are dear to us, we may from generosity of mind consent to renouncing our fiscal privileges and bear the burden of public taxation in equal measure.
If we recognize among them citizens who are dear to us, ... That is a mighty big IF. Therein lies the problem. For those workers who work hard, behave honestly, dependably, reliably, and come to a circumstance because of health problems, diseases, injuries, old age, and who cannot work any more, the oligarchs pay no heed.
We know what happened during the French Revolution.
The French Revolution, 1789–1799, overthrew the monarchy, established a republic, experienced violent periods of political turmoil, and finally ended in a dictatorship by Napoleon.
We have no monarch, but we do have an oligarchy or plutarchy, a "form of oligarchy and defines a society or a system ruled and dominated by the small minority of the wealthiest citizens."
What are the factors that result in a revolution? I think we know all too well, wealth concentrated in a few, poor working conditions. limited access to health care, education and retirement plans.
Right now, there are too many poor people who have been able to get food and housing assistances, and more are getting health care. If these subsidized programs end, so ends the plutarchy.
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 Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko 22 hours ago
jay H is right.
 No, my boss does not yet recognize that all taxes are theft. I am smart enough to figure out things for myself. I have known that taxes are theft since I was 16 and I got my first job, as a library page. They told me I was going to get $6 an hour. They lied. They spent $6 on me. I did not get $6 per hour.
 Who determines what is free speech?? You do for yourself and not for anybody else. You can complain all you want short of banning specific flags, and so on.
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 Permalink Reply by Gerald Payne 22 hours ago

Michael, everybody has to pay taxes, even you.
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 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck 2 hours ago

Gerald, Michael is saving money to buy an island where he can live by himself. The taxes he has to pay are delaying his departure.
Or, ....

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 Permalink Reply by Freethinker31 6 hours ago

No one likes to pay taxes Michael.....Without taxes, we would not have Medicare ,Social Security, Medicaid, paved roads, workers  comp., our military, and any other services  that the government provides, etc etc....In summary, all  working Americans  pay taxes so we can all enjoy the benefits  it provides.....
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