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HELLPPP! Can you relate?
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status offlinematitalica
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Cacky wrote:
When I studied over thirty years ago, yoga was a no no, and I never heard of it being changed.
I think tight pants tony probably covered that with tight workout pants.
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HELLPPP! Can you relate?
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offlinesummagirl
HELLPPP! Can you relate?
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Mar 18 15 10:22 PM
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Hi I'm 18 years old and I have been raised a Jehovah's witness throughout my 18 years. My mom is a pioneer and my dad is an elder. Both have been raised as a jw and are very zealous(if the gb said jump off a cliff they would!).
I was baptized at 16. I did it because my other friends were getting baptized, and my parents were pushing me;(even though they would think otherwise).
For years I have had my doubts about the religion, and for the past year I have been doing research on the religion. So far I have learned the disastrous doings of the GB. It makes me so sad how they manipulate people.
I feel guilty every time I go to the meetings. Lately I've been trying to avoid conversations with people at the hall. I feel like a hypocrite. When I come in the Kh I always have a big smile on my face, but I'm not happy. I feel so sad all the time. I feel like a bird in a cage just waiting to get out!
I have also developed severe social anxiety over the years. I think it's because all my live I've always had to make sure I acted the right way, looked the right way, and dressed the right way(remember no tight pants guys!) With being the elders daughter the pressure is always on to be perfect. I think one instance that set it off was when a jealous "sister" lied to the elders and said she saw me kissing a non witness guy at my school(Ohhhhh gasp!!!!)! She spread it around the whole congregation, and most people believed her. There has been other slander that has been hurled against my family, and the elders did nothing about it. They just watched the show unfold.
I've been trying to plan my "great" escape, but I get scared, confused, and lost. I don't have any friends outside of the religion. Most of my family live in other states. I live in the middle of nowhere( my parents thought thought it would be a good idea to move where "the need was greater").
My mom has a medical condition and my dad is stressed out all the time, and I hate just thinking about adding to that stress. I really care for my parents and I know they want me to go to bethel(currently go to Warwick), and be a missionary in Africa, but that kind of life is not for me! I don't want to be the governing bodies "robot" for the rest of my life.
My goal is to start a blog to offer help to teens and adults ,like me, that feel stuck and want to escape from this poisonous religion. I have found a lot of inspiration from Apostate Chick and jw survey website. I have also found a lot of help from exjw forums like these.
So this is my story. I hope others can relate to it and offer some advice!
😀😀😀
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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summagirl wrote:
Hi I'm 18 years old and I have been raised a Jehovah's witness throughout my 18 years. My mom is a pioneer and my dad is an elder. Both have been raised as a jw and are very zealous(if the gb said jump off a cliff they would!).
I was baptized at 16. I did it because my other friends were getting baptized, and my parents were pushing me;(even though they would think otherwise).
For years I have had my doubts about the religion, and for the past year I have been doing research on the religion. So far I have learned the disastrous doings of the GB. It makes me so sad how they manipulate people.
I feel guilty every time I go to the meetings. Lately I've been trying to avoid conversations with people at the hall. I feel like a hypocrite. When I come in the Kh I always have a big smile on my face, but I'm not happy. I feel so sad all the time. I feel like a bird in a cage just waiting to get out!
I have also developed severe social anxiety over the years. I think it's because all my live I've always had to make sure I acted the right way, looked the right way, and dressed the right way(remember no tight pants guys!) With being the elders daughter the pressure is always on to be perfect. I think one instance that set it off was when a jealous "sister" lied to the elders and said she saw me kissing a non witness guy at my school(Ohhhhh gasp!!!!)! She spread it around the whole congregation, and most people believed her. There has been other slander that has been hurled against my family, and the elders did nothing about it. They just watched the show unfold.
I've been trying to plan my "great" escape, but I get scared, confused, and lost. I don't have any friends outside of the religion. Most of my family live in other states. I live in the middle of nowhere( my parents thought thought it would be a good idea to move where "the need was greater").
My mom has a medical condition and my dad is stressed out all the time, and I hate just thinking about adding to that stress. I really care for my parents and I know they want me to go to bethel(currently go to Warwick), and be a missionary in Africa, but that kind of life is not for me! I don't want to be the governing bodies "robot" for the rest of my life.
My goal is to start a blog to offer help to teens and adults ,like me, that feel stuck and want to escape from this poisonous religion. I have found a lot of inspiration from Apostate Chick and jw survey website. I have also found a lot of help from exjw forums like these.
So this is my story. I hope others can relate to it and offer some advice!
😀😀😀Hi there Summagirl and welcome ....
Boy you lucked out with having a pioneering mother and an elder for a father! My advice to you would be to bide your time, keep reading and researching ..... and be careful with a blog in case someone recognises you and dobs you into your parents, or to the other elders in your hall. That's the last thing you want. You haven't said whether you're still in school or working ..... either way ..... you'll have normal people around you than you can get to know. Losing the guilt about how your parents will react is another thing to work on. You are not going to add stress to their lives by choosing a different path to what they want for you ..... therefore if they do get stressed it is their choice to add more stress. If you have the type of parents you can talk to freely ...... let them know that you're having a few doubts at the moment and need some time to clear your head and that you will ask them for help when you're ready (or if you're ready, although I would say that!). If they're not the kind of parents you can tall freely too ..... stay quiet until you've worked out how you really feel about it all. If you are still living at home ...... it won't be as easy for to you make a clean break but at least you can plan ahead!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHumbleLove
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Mar 18 15 11:11 PM
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Welcome to the forum Summagirl,
I was never a JW I came here looking for answers to questions myself. I think it's great that you care about your parents and don't want to add extra stress to their lives. If you are planning your "great escape," do you have a time frame in mind? You were saying that your parents want you to be a missionary in Africa. How soon were they expecting you to do that?
If you have time to plan, I would suggest the first thing you do is get a job if that's possible. You say you live in the middle of nowhere so I don't know if that means it would be very hard to get a job. An escape will be
easier to do if you have a way to support yourself. Have you asked yourself are you ready to give up your parents? Would they shun you if you left?
I think it's commendable that you want to start a blog to offer help to teens and adults like you. I agree with Andria be very careful if you decide to do this. You might want to wait until after the "great escape" to start the blog.
status offlinematitalica
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Sounds like your realllllllly stuck between a rock and a hard place. Elder dad, pioneer mom, maybe a small town with the usual gossip mill. You would have a hard time fading in your situation. So yes see if you can find a job so you can eventually move out. If the job situation doesn't look very promising I have a really wild and crazy and strange idea......go ahead and volunteer and go to bethel....nuts, this will get you away from the immediate and constant pressure of your elder dad and pioneer mom and microscope of the congregation, this will get you a opportunity to learn a new skill or two, (I hear they may be willing to help pay for becoming a lawyer), help you to meet new friends, make new acquaintances etc and eventually will get you out of your house and into the world. Because your young, take advantage of the watchtower, use them for your own gain and benefit.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Last Edited By: birdwoman2 Mar 23 15 2:59 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCeili
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Hello summagirl,
There is two young girls, one about your age, that are born-ins to a very zealous mother that I know, who are not run-of-the-mills JWs, yet stuck in the same way you are with living in the sticks, having all JW friends etc. I always thought if someone else their own age would be reaching out to them, there might be a doorway...so this could work both ways for you, if you could find a way to be in contact with other teenagers, inside and outside, minding Andria's advice on proceeding with care.
Since I am a different generation, there is also a gap provided by the fast-moving technical innovations that nowadays seem to play a major role in teenagers lives...smiley: tongue and seemingly, the organisation wants a share of that now that the internet is all the hype...!
I do remember though what it was like to be a teenager, LOL! So how about you start making some friends your age, perhaps online, through, say, a doggie forum?? Nice and easy, in a way, where noone can recognize you. Join an internet book club, etc. Or via music?
A pen-pal? Oops, maybe too oldfashioned haha
Your image about a bird in a cage stayed with me. Know what, it's your birth right to fly freely.
Love, Ceilixx
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HI summagirl
I definitely relate to your feeling of suffocation in that situation. I don't have a lot of advice other than to encourage you to keep thinking about how you're going to exit. College might be an option that others haven't mentioned. Would your parents be willing to support you at all? Sometimes there's financial aid, scholarships, or work-studies that you can apply for.
Don't feel bad if it takes you a while to succeed in steering your life against a contrary current. It's more important to start somewhere or else you're just going to keep flowing in a direction you don't want to go.
I wish you all the best in your efforts.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinesg75
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Welcome, summagirl. I definitely relate to where you're at. I was about your age when my doubts got too loud for me to ignore any longer. Like you, I was baptized too dang young to know what I was really doing. By the time I realized what I'd gotten into, I was caught in the trap. The guilt was intense. I felt like a horrible person because I couldn't MAKE myself be a perfect little JW. I'd spent my whole life pretending and feeling like my true self was being slowly strangled. On top of it all, I hated myself for being a hypocrite, even though I didn't really have any choice. I came very close to killing myself because I was so depressed and hurting so bad. It got better after I got my own place and moved out of my mom's house. Once I was on my own, Mom couldn't threaten to kick me out if I didn't keep going to the Hall and all that. You probably have it a lot worse than I did because I wasn't an elders daughter. I know it's hell right now, but please remember things can change. Don't be too hard on yourself because right now you don't have a choice. If you're able, try to get a job and start saving up for your new life. Getting a job was good for me since it exposed me to non-JWs that I was able to form friendships with. There's a whole big, beautiful world out there, sweetie. Hang in there a little longer and remember we're always here for you. Hope we see a lot more of you.
status offlinematitalica
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I know what you mean, yep they will pick the males first for their legal training, but that also means that they will pick females to be their helpers. And with all the females filing lawsuits against them, there is a chance they will eventually want a female attorney fighting on their behalf. Of course just so they can save face and put up the front that their legal department doesn't have gender discrimination issue's.
status offlineLocutus
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Summagirl,
I'm a 4th gen born in JW. I left my completely train-wreck dysfunctional JW family in the early 80's. It can be done.. you will be just fine. Just breathe! Now we have internet, free access to real information.
You have opportunity now to make much better life choices than those who left the org earlier, who were all without any impartial information or support. Take full advantage.
Locutus.
Last Edited By: Locutus Mar 19 15 8:02 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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I just want to say WELCOME! Summagirl.
It is a plus that you are young. I didn't escape until I was 41 and half my life was gone. Still, it's been good even with the 'catching up' I had to do. You won't have to catch up much. Yes, get a job and go easy and steady ahead.
My user name is a play on the old (old) song Whitebird. The words went....'white bird must fly or she will die'.
Now if the thought of dying in that messed up religious cage doesn't suit you, by all means...FLY!!!
The world isn't the awful place we were told it was. Yes there are awful things out there but there are awful things within Jehovah's 'happy' (not) organization, too. Find good people to hang out with and in time you can show by your success that your choice to leave was the right one. Living well is the best...well, revenge...but also answer to the question 'where else will you go to?'.
Keep reading. There's already been some good ideas given and there will be more.
And (((summagirl))). This is a good place for cyber hugs, too.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Hello and welcome, Summa. If I were you, I would talk my parents in to letting me go to college. Even the local community college to start with. There have been others on here who had to pretend to still be a jw while living at home with parents. It's just something some have to do. Don't feel guilty about it, it's not your fault you have to do that. Some have kind of looked at themselves as being able to report back to us some of the current things being said at meetings, to give us an idea what's the new trends, things like that. Just remember, you are not being a hypocrite, you are doing what you have to for the time being. It's the religion that puts people in that situation. Just go along with the role while you gradually plan your exit, either by going to college so you can then later support yourself and move out, or by getting a job and being able to get out on your own eventually. You will eventually get out. Others on this board started out like you and now, six years later after me coming to this board, those others have gotten out. Try to hang in there. You can always come here to vent. Wishing you well.
status offlinesolitaire
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Hello there and welcome :-)
As the others have said, you are still so young and have your whole life ahead of you!! So you must just make sure that you do what is right for you, and also make sure the timing is right!!
It is so much easier to distance yourself from the religion when you are independent of your parents....while you live under the same roof, unfortunately it means that you may have to bide your time, rather than just let out everything you now think about the way you were raised....
By all means plan your escape, but just be glad that you have escaped mentally at least.....and therefore the organisation no longer holds a threat....dealing with your parents disappointment may be another matter!! Elders especially are expected to have children that can be held up as a jw 'example' for all the minions to follow....
So it won't be easy whenever you make your stand....but tbh, once you know in your heart that its a crock of crap, you are free of the guilt-trip!!
Sam
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlinematitalica
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Or you could just walk into your local Wal-Mart and when they announce something over the speaker you could grab your ears, fall to the ground and start screaming, 'the voices won't stop'. This might land you in a little room away from the family and the jw's.
Just kiddingbanana dance
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@matt....when I read your post I had a pretty good laugh. Wouldn't it be nice if an escape were that easy!
status offlinepunkofnice
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'allo Summer. Blimey, it's a rollercoaster with you ay....you poor gal.
Time moves on and we find our level like water.....and you will find yours. Things won't always be like this.
Live prosp and longer.
Regards Paul
Read my novel Boomshot (18+)
http://www.amazon.com/Boomshot-Hunt-Killer-Paul-Jackson-ebook/dp/B00VSLG48W/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428756971&sr=1-1&keywords=boomshot
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineMichelleH7
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Hello Summagirl! You sound a lot like me at your age. I had very strict JW parents, and wanted to be free like you couldn't believe (or you probably can). And... now, at 32, I am. It's not a short road, or an easy road. But the amazing news is, the road is THERE. There is a lot of good advice here. If you review what everyone is saying, the key to your freedom is to slowly start integrating yourself into the world. Getting a job is the most common thing everyone here has said, and starting your path to financial freedom is the first step. Going to college is a good idea, but if your parents are as strict as mine, then they may be completely against college. That's ok, too. Once again, get a job. Or another idea is to make a list of harmless activities that you can become a part of. Some of the others mentioned book clubs, you can try joining a gym, or yoga or aerobics classes, learn to play an instrument(so you can play songs from "Singing Praises to Jehovah"lol), etc. I'm out of the JW loop, so no clue if yoga is "bad" or not... Anyway. Make a list of things, and you're sure to find something.
And hang in there. You can do it.
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When I studied over thirty years ago, yoga was a no no, and I never heard of it being changed.
status offlinejerryjax99
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Hey there! I can relate to where you are coming from. Being a born-in I was always trying to live up to the standards of my elder/pioneer Dad and Mom. I became a MS right at 21 and given a lot of responsibilities in the cong. Shortly after I just stopped caring about anything JW, from studying, talking with friends, and even flaking out on talks or reading from the platform. It became apparent and then I acted out by being rebelious and drinking/partying a lot to get rid of my MS status follwed by my DF for having relations with a brother. I was set free within a month and never looked back with regret. Don't try to plan something perfect but go with what YOU feel is right and live YOUR life.
status offlineabby7149
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I can relate so well to your story. My mother wasn't a pioneer and my father wasn't an elder(just an MS), but there was still a lot of pressure from my family to be the golden child. I was 9 when I got baptized, I auxiliary pioneered off and on until I was 14, and at 14 I became a regular pioneer. Becoming a regular pioneer was something I really felt pressured into; I was already doing school, working part time, I didn't know how the hell I was supposed to spend 70 hours a month door-knocking too. But my dad really wanted it, he actually had me drop out of school in order to continue pioneering(priorities, you know) when it became clear that I couldn't possibly do all three.
Even though my parents didn't share the same status in the congregation at yours, I can super relate about your mother's medical condition. My mother was quite sick as well. She had a hundred different health problems, she couldn't get out of bed some days, and she had many psychological problems as well. She attempted suicide twice that I know of, once when I was too little to remember and once when I was about 12 or 13. She also has psychogenic seizures, any stress or emotional situations would cause her to have seizures that would leave her exhausted, bedridden for days, and in a strange, childish state of mind. For me, this was a huge factor to consider when I realized I didn't want to be a JW anymore. How could I add to my mother's mental stress and problems?
I was disfellowshipped at 16 because it was found out that I had had a couple of boyfriends. After being disfellowshipped for 6 months and applying for reinstatement once already(was denied), I decided I couldn't do it anymore, I couldn't keep living a lie and remain unhappy the rest of my life. When I told my family, all hell broke loose. I was interrogated and verbally assaulted, and my aunt told me "You are the reason your mother is the way she is, you are the reason for her problems." Those words hurt me more than anything and they still haunt me to this day.
It was a really hard decision, leaving. I knew that if I left, my parents would follow the shunning to the tee. I have an uncle who was disfellowshipped before I was born, and I have never met him, so I knew I would be just as outcast as he was. I had to choose between my own happiness and my family, and that is a choice that no one should ever have to make. I chose myself, though, and I am glad for it. Sometimes it feels selfish, but I couldn't keep up the lie anymore. I didn't want to spend my whole life pioneering and converting others to something I didn't believe in myself. And when I first found these forums and learned all about the sexual abuse and other such scandals, I knew I could not support the JW organization anymore. I am happy now. I miss my family dearly, especially my mother. The last time I ever saw them was when I was 17, 3 years ago. I have no hope that I will ever see them again, and it kills me. I'm still an emotional wreck whenever I think about them. But every other aspect of my life is far happier and more fulfilling than it ever would have been as a JW. I met a wonderful man, moved to the Philippines to be with him and we just got married this year and are buying a house. I celebrate my birthday, I have tattoos, I finished college with a 2 year degree(Associate of Arts), I have true friends that will never abandon me because of my beliefs/morals, and I'm just all around happier than I ever was with the weight of God's Kingdom on my shoulders.
Your blog idea sounds great, I know that reading these forums and hearing other ex-JWs stories was a big part in my realizing how I really felt about "the truth". I would not be the happy person that I am today, free from the chains of the organization, if it weren't for this website and all the wonderful, kind people here who were able to relate to me and share their own stories. I'm sure a blog in which you share your own experiences and advice would be helpful to many people, just as these forums were helpful to me. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor and I hope that whatever you end up doing, you are happy :)
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi Summagirl .... just checking in to see how you're travelling ................
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Does anyone know where the Society says...
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offlinePapillon1960
Does anyone know where the Society says...
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that JWs only owe the truth to those who deserve it? I thought it was in the elders manual. Anyone know offhand?
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I was looking up some information on the blood issue in Bulgaria (it's related to the rumor, also posted in this forum, that they changed the blood policy) when I found this jwfacts article. There's some info that might be relevant to what you asked:
“Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.“ Watchtower 1957 May 1 pp.285-286
“It is proper to cover over our arrangements for the work that God commands us to do. If the wolfish foes draw wrong conclusions from our maneuvers to outwit them, no harm has been done to them by the harmless sheep, innocent in their motives as doves.” Watchtower 1956 Feb 1 p.86
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php
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have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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QUALIFIED TO BE MINISTERS (1967 edition), p. 197
"As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interest of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies."
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They don't really SAY it as such...more imply it methinks......
Theocratic Warfare Strategy = ***w07 2/1 p.6***
Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie. Why not? A dictionary defines a lie as “an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive.” Yes, lying includes the intention to deceive someone. Hence, to speak an untruth unwittingly—such as giving someone incorrect facts or figures by mistake—is not the same as to tell a lie.
Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer. For instance, suppose Manfred had been asked the same questions by an executive of another company. Would Manfred have been obliged to tell him everything? Not really. Since that executive had no right to such information, Manfred would have had no obligation to provide it. Of course, even in this case, it would have been wrong for him to tell a lie.
Regards Paul
Read my novel Boomshot (18+)
http://www.amazon.com/Boomshot-Hunt-Killer-Paul-Jackson-ebook/dp/B00VSLG48W/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428756971&sr=1-1&keywords=boomshot
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Thanx guys. Those are all great!
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Here is the link to the actual letter from the societyhttp://www.silentlambs.org/Theowarfare1.htm
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Conti – Appeal decision – Watchtower negligent – affirmed
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Conti – Appeal decision – Watchtower negligent – affirmed
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Candace Conti has been awarded compensatory damages in the amount of 2.8 million dollars (plus interest), because the WT was found negligent in not supervising her abuser while he was in field service. This case is precedent setting, hopefully more lawsuits will be filed as a result! What a brave young woman!
http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/court-actions/conti-appeal-decision-watchtower-negligent-affirmed
Conti – Appeal decision – Watchtower negligent – affirmed
Posted on April 13, 2015 by Susannah
Candace Conti
The decision by the California appeal court has been made today, 13, April 2015, in the Candace Conti case. Very few details are currently available.
What is known is this:
In the case of Jane Doe v. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc. et al.
Division 3
Case Number A136641
Description: Affirmed/part, rev/part, remanded w/direction
Date: 04/13/2015
Final
The judgment against defendants on the negligence count is affirmed. The judgment against Watchtower on the cause of action for punitive damages is reversed with directions to enter judgment for Watchtower on punitive damages. The parties are to bear their own costs on appeal.
Clarification is being sought as to the meaning of this decision, but initial thoughts are that the compensatory damages of $2.8 million has been upheld and the punitive amount has been reversed. It may be possible to apply for punitive damages to another court.
The compensatory damages with interest may now amount to $4 million.
Barbara Anderson has commented:
“Watchtower lost on NEGLIGENCE and that’s what Candace wanted. This is a precedent-setting win. No matter how the Watchtower spins it, their name will forever be linked with not protecting children.
Candace Conti came out of this as a winner. No need to moan over the loss of money. What if she had won on Punitive? What would we all be talking about? Probably not about the money anyway as it’s not our business what a plaintiff does with whatever monetary amount is awarded or that Watchtower lost to her more donation money. I’m sure we’d be talking about the Negligence Count being affirmed even if the punitive judgment was upheld.
What we all wanted was justice for Candace which is a win for all the other victims of Watchtower’s indifference to their safety. She got what she went after. Please celebrate with us. We sure are!
Of course, both sides can appeal the court’s decision. No matter, this day is Candace’s.”
The next scheduled action is 6/15/2015.
The court document states:
“Conti sought to hold defendants liable for failing to warn the Congregation or her parents that Kendrick was a child molester, and for failing to limit and supervise his participation in church activities. A jury found defendants liable for compensatory damages to Conti, and held Watchtower liable for punitive damages.
We hold that defendants had no duty to warn the Congregation or Conti’s parents that Kendrick had molested a child, but that defendants can be held liable for failing to limit and supervise Kendrick’s “field service,” a church-sponsored activity where members go door-to-door preaching in the community. Kendrick had unsupervised access to Conti during field service that he used as opportunities to molest her. Because breach of the alleged duty to warn was the sole basis for imposition of punitive damages on Watchtower, we reverse that portion of the judgment, with directions to enter judgment for Watchtower on the punitive damage claim. The compensatory damage award is affirmed.”
“Watchtower, not the Congregation, dictated the conditions under which field service by child molesters was permissible. The jury could have found that Watchtower falsely claimed to have a policy that prevented child molesters from performing field service alone or with children, or, even if it had that policy, it did not impose the policy on the Congregation or Kendrick.”
Full decision (PDF) Link
The court record can be seen here Link
JWR – Report by Scott Terry on the Appeal hearing Link
Huffington Post – Candace Conti awarded $28 million in Jehovah’s Witness sex abuse case Link
Candace Speaks out at the 2013 RNA Conference Link
Barbara Anderson’s – Watchtower documents Link
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
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Great news!
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Congratulations Candace on your victory! Thanks Sail for the info.
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Good for Candace!
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The court document defining the opinion of the court in the judgement is here:http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/A136641.PDF?hc_location=ufi
After a lengthy discussion on clergy confidentiality, the court concluded:
"...the public policy to protect the confidentiality of penitential communications that underlies the privilege and reporting statutes militates strongly against imposition of the duty claimed here to inform congregations of such communications. When the clergy member privilege was codified in Evidence Code section 1034, the California Law Revision Commission commented: “The extent to which a clergyman should keep secret or reveal penitential communications is not an appropriate subject for legislation; the matter is better left to the discretion of the individual clergyman involved and the discipline of the religious body of which he is a member.” (7 Cal. Law Revision Com. (1965) p. 202.) Courts should likewise be wary to intrude in this realm.
Accordingly, we conclude that the elders of the Fremont Congregation had no duty to depart from Watchtower’s policy of confidentiality and warn the members of the Congregation that Kendrick had molested a child. Since that “secrecy policy” was the only basis for the punitive damages assessed against Watchtower, the punitive damage award must be reversed."
However, the WTS and the elders are being held accountable for not properly supervising Kendrick in field service and that is why the compensatroy amount was awarded to Candace:
It is foreseeable that a child molester will reoffend, and the risk is heightened when the molester is put in a position, as Kendrick was here, to be alone with a child. Defendants will not be heavily burdened by a duty to take reasonable care to ensure that molesters are accompanied by another adult, and no children, in the field. Defendants cannot claim that imposition of this duty would be unduly burdensome when it was Watchtower’s avowed policy. Moreover, recognition of a duty of reasonable care in the supervision of known child molesters in the field furthers the policy of preventing future harm without affecting the confidentiality of penitential communications.
We therefore conclude that defendants had a duty to use reasonable care to restrict and supervise Kendrick’s field service to prevent him from harming children in the community and in the Congregation. Conti’s testimony provided substantial evidence that defendants breached this duty.
So - WTS wins the right to have clergy confidentiality privilege and is not liable for not warning the congregation or parents that a pedophile was in the congregation, but both the elders and the WTS are being held accountable for not monitoring the behavior of the pedophile.
What is ironic about the court's decision is that it is based upon the WTS lawyers' arguments that have made a case for a clergy class within the JWs when the WTS literature itself denies such a distinction:
The Watchtower, February 15, 1994 Issue, Page 7:
It is precisely because of this close adherence to Bible teachings that the veneration and idolization of human leaders so characteristic of cults today is not to be found among Jehovah's Witnesses. They reject the concept of a clergy-laity distinction. The Encyclopedia of Religion aptly states about Jehovah's Witnesses: "A clergy class and distinctive titles are prohibited."
http://www.silentlambs.org/noclergy.htm
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Article: Reveal News-California court guts child abuse ruling against Jehovah's Witnesses #5 [-]
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Here's another article that confirms Birdwoman's posts:
Article: Reveal News-California court guts child abuse ruling against Jehovah's Witnesses
by AndersonsInfo 12 hours ago 19 Replies latest 8 minutes ago watchtower child-abuse
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AndersonsInfo12 hours ago
http://www.revealnews.org/article/california-court-guts-child-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/
California court guts child abuse ruling against Jehovah’s Witnesses
Topics: Religion / Religion and Government
By Trey Bundy / April 14, 2015
Odufd7bulsnEJtQp9h5GYvPrhkJTjTGQhyOxE6sq A California appeals court has overturned most of Candace Conti's record award in her child sexual abuse lawsuit against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, the parent organization of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Credit: Adithya Sambamurthy/Reveali
READ MORE COVERAGE ON JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES
Jehovah’s Witnesses use 1st Amendment to hide child sex abuse claims
Jehovah’s Witness leader says child sex abuse claims are ‘lies’
Candace Conti drew worldwide attention in her fight against the Jehovah’s Witnesses when a jury awarded her $28 million in damages – the largest verdict for a single victim of child abuse against a religious organization in U.S. history.
The amount was later reduced to $15.6 million, including $8.6 million in punitive damages.
Now, three years later, an appeals court has eroded her courtroom victory even further by ruling that the leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses had no duty to warn congregants that a confessed child molester was one of their own. As a result, judges eliminated the punitive damages in the case. Conti still stands to receive $2.8 million.
The decision by the California Court of Appeal is the latest ruling in a rash of lawsuits aimed at Jehovah’s Witnesses policies directing elders to keep child abuse secret from their congregations and secular authorities.
Conti, who is no longer a Jehovah’s Witness, had sued her abuser, her former congregation in Fremont and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York – the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ parent corporation – in 2011. She claimed that Watchtower policies allowed a Witness named Jonathan Kendrick to molest her repeatedly when she was 9 and 10 years old.
Kendrick had admitted to North Fremont congregation elders that he had sexually abused his stepdaughter. The elders informed the Watchtower of Kendrick’s confession in 1993, but in accordance with Watchtower policy did not notify police or warn the congregation. Soon after, Conti says, Kendrick began abusing her.
In their ruling Monday, the judges said forcing the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses to warn congregants about child abusers would be too burdensome.
“While it is readily foreseeable that someone who has molested a child may do so again, the burden the duty to warn would create and the adverse social consequences the duty would produce outweigh its imposition,” the judges wrote.
“The burden would be considerable because the precedent could require a church to intervene whenever it has reason to believe that a congregation member is capable of doing harm, and the scope of that duty could not be limited with any precision.
“Since that ‘secrecy policy’ was the only basis for the punitive damages assessed against Watchtower, the punitive damage award must be reversed,” the judges added.
Rick Simons, Conti’s attorney, disagreed with the new ruling in an interview.
“They think in public policy terms that there’s too much risk in broadening the church’s responsibility and liability so that it burdens what churches do,” he said. “We think there’s too much child abuse in these institutions.”
Conti could not immediately be reached for comment.
Hear Candace’s story
The judges also touched on a contentious national debate over religious exceptions to reporting child abuse. California law requires clergy to report suspected child abuse to secular authorities unless they learn of it through a penitential communication, like a confession in the Catholic church. Kendrick’s admission to elders in 1993, they wrote, failed to meet that standard.
“The privilege for penitential communications does not apply unless the communication is made ‘in the presence of no third person so far as the penitent is aware,’ a condition not satisfied at the Kendrick family meeting with the Congregation elders,” the judges wrote.
Dozens of lawsuits in recent years have focused on a series of Watchtower memos dating back to 1989 that direct elders to keep cases of child abuse secret from law enforcement and their congregations.
Watchtower officials have testified under oath that since 1997, the organization has collected detailed information on known child sexual abusers in its congregations.
Last year, a San Diego judge awarded Jose Lopez – a former Jehovah’s Witness who was abused by a man in his San Diego congregation when he was 7 years old – $13.5 million after the Watchtower refused to provide its list of known predators.
In the Conti case, the panel upheld the lower court’s ruling that the Watchtower and elders in the North Fremont congregation failed to supervise Kendrick when he preached door to door in the community, a practice Jehovah’s Witnesses call field service.
According to Conti, the North Fremont elders would group her with Kendrick for long afternoons of field service. She says he used those opportunities to take her to his house and sexually abuse her.
“While the Congregation may not have been able to police Kendrick’s behavior after scheduled field service was over, it could have controlled his access to Conti during the field service,” the judges wrote Monday.
Although Kendrick has confessed to abusing his stepdaughter, and later his stepgranddaughter, he denies abusing Conti.
Watchtower officials told the court they allow child molesters to perform field service, but not alone or with a child. They could not, however, produce a written policy for the court.
“Even if Watchtower had a policy of preventing known child molesters from performing field service alone or with children, there is no evidence that Watchtower did anything to implement that policy in Kendrick’s case,” the court found.
The judges went on to remark on the larger risk of allowing child abusers to preach door to door: “They are also a threat to children in the community when they engage in that activity. The prospect of children opening their doors to proselytizing child molesters is frightening.”
Watchtower officials did not immediately return calls for comment. James McCabe, the attorney representing the North Fremont congregation, declined to comment.
Simons said Conti has not decided yet whether to appeal the court’s decision. She has 30 days to do so.
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Another one dies from no blood, family outraged.
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Another one dies from no blood, family outraged.
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Thanks for posting that newsclip, Cacky. I hope that the family does take legal action.
Interestingly, I had the exact same surgery as the JW woman in the video. I also hemorrhaged. But, I got a blood transfusion (3 bags) and lived. I remember coming out of surgery and being so grateful when I looked up and saw the blood hanging on the IV pole. I also remember that my JW sister came to see me when I had that bag of blood hanging beside my bed, dripping life into me. She shuddered and made a face of disgust when she saw the blood. She saw the blood as 'unclean'. I saw the blood as giving me life and the chance to be a mother to my little girl that needed me.
My sister would have rather seen me die.
Funny thing is, my sister needed the same surgery as me several years ago. The doctors wouldn't operate on her because of her blood refusal. I don't know if she ever got the surgery done - I don't talk to her.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
Last Edited By: birdwoman2 Apr 8 15 7:13 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Wow! JWs are certainly getting some press lately. Although they undoubtedly consider it bad press I'm thinking it's about time.
Thanks for posting that Cathy and so sorry for the husband, children and familiy of the JW woman. Another blood sacrifice to the ancient Semitic war God.
Would it be different if a group did it for Zeus? Same difference to me.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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Zeus an interesting concept, god of sky and thunder. Yes, it's all the same difference. The JW's are definitely getting more press lately. It's all about public awareness it fits a dual purpose. It's in the hopes that someone who is thinking of joining...will re-think it.
It's also in the hopes that someone who is thinking about leaving might actually find the courage/reason to leave. It is very sad when somebody refuses medical treatment that could save their lives. I hope somebody watches this and it helps them see that refusing
blood transfusion isn't a good thing.
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How many is too many to sacrifice on the altar? How many will it take for them to see the error? I haven't been affected personally by this issue but if I lost someone due to it I think my blood would boil with outrage.
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If I lost someone due to this, I would definitely get a lawsuit, even if it would come to nothing. I'd try to fight.
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Yes, it's always important to fight for what is right. And in this case a lifesaving blood transfusion.
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We just keep hearing about these poor witnesses dying from not taking blood. I honestly don't know how the members of the gb can sleep at night knowing their policies are causing these deaths!
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Another tragic loss due to 'the blood issue' ... Sydney, Australia - April 2015
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Another tragic loss due to 'the blood issue' ... Sydney, Australia - April 2015
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Blind religious faith has once again taken the life of a Jehovah's Witness ..... only this time she was pregnant and her baby also died. There are no words.
Pregnant Jehovah's Witness' decision to refuse treatment 'harrowing' for hospital staff after mother and baby die
DateApril 6, 2015 - 7:08PM
A pregnant Jehovah's Witness and her baby have died after the woman refused a blood transfusion in a Sydney hospital.
Doctors described the harrowing effect on staff at the Royal Hospital for Women and Prince of Wales Hospital in Randwick of what some felt were two otherwise avoidable deaths, after the woman refused the transfusion when she developed complications nearly seven months into her pregnancy and was discovered to be suffering from leukaemia.
More than 80 per cent of pregnant women suffering from the cancer, called acute promyelocytic leukaemia, will go into remission with proper treatment, and the outlook for their babies is good.
But the 28-year old's religion forbade her from accepting the blood transfusion she needed to save her life and that of her unborn baby.
The whole story can be found HERE .....
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Absolutely tragic. Horrible waste.
The wbts is in over it's head in blood guilt! why they can't have a serious re-think on this policy is beyond my understanding of what is the example set by their jesus. They behave like the pharisies with their laws. Disgusting.
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They believe they are above everyone 2014 ... and that is the sad part. They've changed their stance on 'blood products' in the past, leaving it up to a person's conscience ....... but we all know that a person's conscience is only ever guided by the jdub cronies who will lurk about making sure someone doesn't make a mistake. The husband (I'm presuming she was married) has not only lost his wife but his child as well ...... and all because some bloody idiots over the years have ensured the WBTS trading as Jehovah's Witnesses ... stands out above other religions. Well they stand out now don't they! There's nothing to say this woman wouldn't have died regardless of her medical treatment ... but a slim chance of survival is certainly grounds for giving it a go. Or at least you would think so!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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I honestly don't know how they can live with the knowledge that their rules have caused yet another needless death!!
They have 'seen new light' on so many of their previous 'interpretations'......but they won't budge on this one smiley: sick
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When making decisions about blood fractions, consider the following questions: Am I aware that refusing all blood fractions means that I will not accept some medications that include products to fight diseases or that might help the blood to clot in order to stop bleeding? Could I explain to a physician why I reject or accept the use of one or more blood fractions?- (Appendix Remain In God's Love book. )
Until recently, I would of read those words and thought nothing of it. However, I realize now that the Wt. tries to control our actions. It seems these questions are encouraging blood fractions. Is this due to lowering death rate? Is this a legal maneuver? They always use questions to either plant doubt that your choice may not have God's approval, or encourage one to take an action they may not have originally thought of. I'm just seeing things so different now.
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I honestly don't know how they can live with the knowledge that their rules have caused yet another needless death!!
Sam, I think they 'can live with it' because their perspective is warped. They do not view the death as 'needless' - they view it as necessary. They believe that it is necessary to die for the WTS blood industry in order to reach that Watchtower myth of a 'New World'.
The JWs are perfect guinea pigs - malleable and willing to do whatever the WTS needs at the moment to promote their interests in bloodless medicine. The WTS has devised the perfect way to side-step the Nuremburg Code - they just call sample group parameters 'religious belief'.
I realize now that the Wt. tries to control our actions. It seems these questions are encouraging blood fractions. Is this due to lowering death rate? Is this a legal maneuver?
Vin, you might be interested in reading this link. http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/27229/Blood-FDA-Army-Navy-Watchtower-Society#.VSPvCtzF_aI
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
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Yes, those questions seem to be encouraging jws to take fractions. I had to laugh when I read that it asked, will you be able to explain to your doctor why you accept or reject certain blood fractions? How in the world could they explain it!! That's the thing that got me investigating the religion in the first place, I wanted to be able to scriptually explain to my doctors whey some fractions were acceptable and some were not, and I couldn't. I can't believe they even asked that question, knowing there is no answer!! It's like they are trying to make them feel bad if they have to admit to themselves that they can't explain it.
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So vexing for the doctors when the 'blood committee' shows up and tells them how to perform their profession. Learned doctors are then forced to take scientific instruction on blood matters from the window washers, and their ilk.
My sister had instruction to let her daughter die without blood transfusion upon the instruction of a JW committee consisting of a mechanic's tool seller, a concrete placer and finisher, and a food products salesman. None of whom ever attained 10th grade, but apparently all perceived experts in life and death matters among those in 'the truth'.
She refused, and the child yet lives.
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Sam, I think they 'can live with it' because their perspective is warped. They do not view the death as 'needless' - they view it as necessary. They believe that it is necessary to die for the WTS blood industry in order to reach that Watchtower myth of a 'New World'
You're right of course Di......it's just so difficult to revisit that mindset - where we were urged to rejoice at such a tragedy....because the victim would have assured themselves a place in the 'New World'.....
I'm sure this young womans jw family will be repeating that mantra endlessly in to days to come.........and once again their natural grief will be hijacked by the organisation........sometimes it just feels so hopeless...smiley: ohwell
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Just saw this quote, and it seemed the perfect fit for this thread...........
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" .....(Thomas Paine)
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Agreed. This is just typical of the guilt riddled mind manipulation the society employs and is manifest in their use of suggestive questions and remarks to ensure rnf conformity while making it appear the individual has made an informed decision.
Birdy has done some excellent research on this subject and I'm inclined to agree that there must be some underlying benefit from this, just like the UN fiasco. What that is I have no idea at this time. They are well equipped with the ability to cover their tracks.
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That's a great quote for this thread solitaire...it fits perfectly.
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thanks for posting. It makes me sick!
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.......sometimes it just feels so hopeless...smiley: ohwell
Sam, we must never give up hope for justice. And retribution.
This scripture is for the Bethel Boys reading this...and anyone else who thinks it applies to them:
(King James Version- it is the one my JW dad used, printed by the Tower themselves. Look it up in your 'silver sword' if you so desire, and follow along with me, please)
Revelation 6:9-11
...I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, and their fellow servants and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Now let us bow our heads in prayer. And ask for this to be fulfilled, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, who gave his blood so we all could live, Amen.
smiley: happy I've always wanted to do that.
Keep kicking at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
- Bruce Cockburn
Last Edited By: birdwoman2 6 days ago. Edited 2 times.
status offlinevinman
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Thanks birdwoman2 for that link about JW's and the blood issue. That is unbelievable.
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You are most welcome, Vinman.
If that link made you go "Holy Crap!!", then you might want to read about a study that shows that the medical testing using JWs as guinea pigs has been going on for a long time.It is nothing new in the land of the Tower.
This is a link to a thread from a few years ago. The information on that thread is lengthy and wanders around somewhat, but the medical study I am referring to, that uses JWs as the subject group, occurs on page 4, post #75.
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ELDER POISONED BY DISFELLOWSHIPPED MEMBER - ADELAIDE SOUTH AUSTRALIA
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offlineLiezel RD
ELDER POISONED BY DISFELLOWSHIPPED MEMBER - ADELAIDE SOUTH AUSTRALIA
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It's hard to know who is more out of their mind in this scenario, the Elder or the perpetrator.
Alleged Jehovah’s Witness poisoner Brett Darren Mardon: I drank weed killer first to ensure it wouldn’t be fatal
Brett Darren Mardon is standing trial in the District Court, accused of poisoning an elder in his Jehovah's Witness congregation. Picture: Greg Higgs Source: News Corp Australia
A JEHOVAH’S Witness says he tested the effects of weed killer by drinking it himself before embarking on a plan to “emotionally disturb” a church elder and reverse his excommunication.
Brett Darren Mardon has told the District Court he never intended to harm Ben Anthanysz, his wife or child by injecting their milk and apple juice with the weed killer glysophate.
Giving evidence, Mardon said he wanted to “play with their minds” so Mr Anthanysz would step down from the church conduct committee that “disfellowed” him a year earlier.
He said he believed Mr Anthanysz was blocking his return to the Jehovah’s Witness community which was, as demanded by its faith, acting as if he were “invisible”.
“I was getting desperate, I had no one to talk to, Jehovah’s Witness was my life ... I was just looking for something, anything, that would take Ben away from the committee,” he said.
“I wasn’t there to hurt Ben or his family, it was just purely wanting to be back within the congregation ... I wanted to emotionally disturb them, cause a little bit of uneasiness.
“Ben believes he’s doing the right thing (excommunicating me) but he’s not doing the right thing by me, that’s the drama.
Mardon attempts to avoid the media as he leaves court today. Source: News Corp Australia
“We don’t always do things that are right even though we believe that we are, and I’m a good example of that.”
Mardon, 47, has pleaded not guilty to three counts of attempting to create a risk of harm and three counts of serious criminal trespass in a place of residence.
Prosecutors have alleged that, between March and October 2011, he repeatedly injected the weed killer glysophate into milk and juice belonging to Mr Anthanysz.
They have alleged he did so because Mr Anthanysz sat on the three-member committee that, in 2010, excommunicated Mardon from the faith for extramarital sex.
Under the church’s rules of “disfellowship”, members of the congregation could no longer speak to, nor acknowledge, Mardon.
In his evidence, Mardon said he joined the Jehovah’s Witness faith when he was 19 and, by 2010, had no friends outside its ranks.
He said he felt “anguish” over the affair and was prepared to be disciplined for “lingering at the table of Satan”.
However he became distraught when, on three separate occasions, the committee refused to end his period of disfellowship.
“The Bible talks about God being a loving God, but it also speaks about disciplining those He loves ... that process applies to everyone, I was happy to follow it,” he said.
“But to step beyond discipline to the point where it’s emotionally damaging?”
Mardon said he was convinced Mr Anthanysz was “controlling” the committee and blocking his return, and so broke into his house seeking evidence to discredit him.
“He would be disfellowed, to be perfectly frank, and I would have had a fair — rather than biased — hearing,” he said.
When that plan failed he opted to poison their drinks with glysophate, which he chose after calling a poisons information line to ensure his dosages were not lethal.
“I actually made up various batches and drank them ... it was painful to drink, in the taste and the smell ... it was horrible,” he said.
“I believed nobody would ever drink this ... there’s nothing that hides (the smell and taste), nothing that disguises it.
“My purpose was that, perhaps, Ben’s family would put pressure on him not to go out every single night on congregation duties because they’d feel uncomfortable if he wasn’t home.”
In cross-examination, prosecutor Nick Healy disputed that motive.
“You’d lost everything, you lost your friends, you lost your wife and, in your mind, the cause of that was the elders and Mr Anthanysz,” he said.
“So you wanted revenge, didn’t you?”
Mardon insisted that was not the case.
“Ben destroyed my marriage, absolutely, but do I blame him for that? I’m no better than anyone else,” he said.
“I had my part in it, I recognise what I’ve done wrong.”
Mr Healy said Mardon claimed to have no harmful intent, yet had injected the poison “in the exact products” that a family — and a young child — would drink.
“That was an oversight on my part,” Mardon replied.
“I hadn’t thought a great deal about it, to be perfectly honest.”
Judge Rauf Soulio, who has presided over the trial in the absence of a jury, will hear closing submissions in April.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
Last Edited By: Liezel RD Mar 18 15 3:46 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Hiya Liezel wave
Wow!!! Although I obviously don't approve of this mans actions.....I do understand that punishments such as cutting vulnerable people off from everyone they have been allowed to mix with, can cause serious mental harm!!
He couldn't have been in a healthy mental state to do this to another human being (even if it was an elder !!), but I am surprised that this sort of reprisal hasn't been attempted more often by unstable members being disfellowshipped....
On another note.......how are you doing lovely lady?? It is so lovely to see you about, I hope you pop back in and let us know what has been happening with you smiley: smile
Hugs
Sam xxx
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I feel kinda bad that I find this kind of funny. lolsmiley: laugh
"Drinking of the kool-aid" in reverse.
It's fortunate that nobody died though.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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You know, I do kind of feel for this guy. I'm guessing he wasn't too stable mentally in the first place and being cut off from his entire world shoved him over the edge. I hope this guy gets some serious help while he's in prison. I'm just surprised, given hoow many mentally ill JWs I knew, that this sort of thing didn't happen more often.
status offlineLiezel RD
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Yes I have always thought that the JW organization attracts it's fair share of mentally unhinged people! After that congregation brainwashing and theocratic routine all but finishes them off. If they get disfellowshipped over the edge they go!
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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It's quite a story isn't it Liezel ....... I added it somewhere else in here but can't find it now. Either way .... he's a bit of a twat isn't he. Will be interesting to see what his sentence is and if it's a custodial sentence (highly unlikely) ... whether it's suspended or not.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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AndriaSyxx wrote:
It's quite a story isn't it Liezel ....... I added it somewhere else in here but can't find it now. Either way .... he's a bit of a twat isn't he. Will be interesting to see what his sentence is and if it's a custodial sentence (highly unlikely) ... whether it's suspended or not.It is quite a story indeed. He said he tasted it himself! So bizarre. It's like a crazy skit or something.
Replace people with Southpark characters and it's comedy.
Heck, there was an episode of a comedy called Seinfeld where a character (George) put something in his bosses' drink after he got fired.
Part of the plan (George's friend flirting with the boss at a party to distract him) put the boss in such a good mood he decided to hire George back.
By that time the poison was already in the drink and now George didn't want him to drink it...oops...
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Good Morning,
I love watching these type programs. Yes, I can understand the frustration - I just don't understand how someone might actually carry out the deed. But, what the hell, I'm not to smart.
So now some former member - although he probably did suffer
from the JW - it's ok to try killing someone? I might send him a letter while he's in prison: there is much information out there for finding recovery before it gets so serious but apparently that would not be the case.
While I'd hope this is not some fun topic...perhaps I should give him my fence-riders information and they can have a relationship with how bad the world has treated themsmiley: mad
For all any of us have experienced, do will really need take such tragic actions? I'd guess there was more going on and sadly religious abuse is still taboo. Although, many have learned how to continue playing the victim and they really don't want help...all the more reason I want nothing to do with the JW,'
Thanks for posting...I know that if I really want knowing about his person - the research is mine.
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Liezel: This sad story is just another reminder for how once you associate with the JW - we know they do not encourage getting outside help...just believe in the WTBTS/Jehovah and your life can be perfect.
It's really a sad story and because I do jail/prison writing to inmates; it doesn't sound like this guy will get off lightly if found guilty.
IMO, it's not just the WTBTS Borg that is guilty ...it'a a lot of religions in general that do not always promoted anything out side of their religion; at the same time, it's not true for every religion.
Guess I'm just going to think about this and wish the best for one of our own that saw fit to do a most hateful thing towards another.
status offlineLiezel RD
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I don't know how you would carry it out either. I think you would have to stew on it until it became such a poison in your system that you found a way to carry it out. It definitely wasn't impulse or a spur of the moment decision.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
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Another thing that surprised me was the fact that it went to court despite 1 Cor 6:6-8 which says ~
6 "but brother goes to court with brother and that before unbelievers? 7 Really then it means altogether s defeat for you that you are having lawsuits with one another. Why do you not rather let yourself be wronged? why do you not rather let yourself be defrauded? 8 To the contrary you wrong and defraud and your brothers at that.
So far as I know, in the congregation this always took precedence over the inflicted wound. It has certainly been the justification for keeping congregation paedophiles unreported to authorities.
I will post an update when the judgement is handed down.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
Last Edited By: Liezel RD Mar 22 15 2:41 PM. Edited 1 times.
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I'm still in "Is this for real or is it an Onion article" mode.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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We just had a case here in the States, Las Vegas I think, where a guy went nuts and ran through an airport with a machete slashing at TSA agents, Police came and shot him and he died later in the hospital. My husband told me this morning he'd seen on the news that the guy was a Witness. No word on what pushed him over the edge or whether he had a history of mental issues.
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Maybe it sent to court because the state took over ... as it often does here in Australia Liezel. The complainant isn't always the one who instigates the court action .... although they may well have let this one go to court because it could be a useful 'local needs' tool to remind the blind faithful that the world IS indeed ending and that poor elder whatever-his-name-is and his family were subjected to persecution and torture at the hands of a disgruntled apostate! What a fearful lesson that would be!
I will wait with baited breath to see what the outcome is. My guess is that they'll slap a restraining order on him and he'll get a suspended sentence. I can't see them plonking him in jail .... although I could well be wrong, as I have been before!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Hi,
Didn't think about the fact that Police might have laid the charges. Of course that would be it.
I have a feeling there might be some jail time though.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
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If he's now df'd, then he's not a "brother," so the other one can press charges. A jw from my old congregation got df'd for taking another bro to court for fraud. He got reinstated.
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"A jw from my old congregation got df'd for taking another bro to court for fraud. He got reinstated."
WHAAAAAT ????? Was there any action taken against the one accused of fraud? If he was convicted then HE was the one who broke the law and should be punished. Oh no
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We learn how the Borg protects those that need finding help. And then it' comes down to how they don't want help...after all-the church tells them what and how to believe. This gentleman will need support from many and it's not going coming from his church.
I've been corresponding my brother that is in jail...and another inmate.
You can never say anything that will shock me or other members. Keep posting and share. Love Lin and John...
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I was told by more than one committee that they are not psychologists. This was said like it was a kind of qualification that makes them elders and some kind of a badge of honor. if they really cared about the flock, after all this man was one of the flock, then they might take into consideration helping the man instead of condemning with such a final death blow as disfellowhipping him which often brings out the worst in people. Of course to the congregation it is all right and justifiable as they believe that they are in the right on all accounts but the Bible does say in Corinthians that the " elders" or congregation should have forgiveness after even this type of sin and not allow "room for Satan because we are not ignorant of his designs". The mental breakdown of this man and actually all people is Satan's design. Evidently their lack of forgiveness drove this man to a bad state of mind to seek revenge and this is where this type of thing goes. Who knows if he could have been healed by forgiveness? I knew a brother who was an artist who had an affair with someone and was disfellowshipped over a year and never stopped trying to be reinstated. After a year and a final desperate plea he bought a gun and shot himself in the head (fatally). I didn't know him well but I know his wife had been so angry at him but years after his death I could see a great sadness in her. Too bad that people have to learn the hard way the true meaning of Christianity - the laws of loving kindness, the triumph of mercy and forgiveness over sacrifice and feelings of being righteous over compassion for the weaknesses of humanity. Everyone, yes everyone has a breaking point and we can all harbor anger when we feel isolated, and punished beyond what seems fair. It is a fact that cruel treatment produces resentment, anger, humiliation and thoughts of revenge. It takes a more mature person and maybe years of therapy to overcome the damage done by over punishing. I went on a tour of a sailing ship and the guide told us the story of a man who stole a loaf of bread or a penny or something like that and he was severely shunned by all. After a few months he threw himself overboard to perish. Being excommunicated from everyone, your entire social structure and losing your family is really one of the worse punishments that can be done. It is really a wonder that this type of thing does not happen more. As I have personally known cases of suicide after disfellowshipping, I would love to hear more stories if any are willing to share. I actually do believe that this type of disfellowshipping is not scriptural. The Bible says that for those who did not believe Jesus was the Christ to not have them into your home or eat a meal with them. The only precedent for disfellwoshipping is their symbolic taking of stoning and then the person is really gone. So why would they ever think they could be repentant. Why knock on their door and try to encourage them to come back to the org? They killed them. They utterly condemned them. They are dead. The witnesses should have thought twice about what that means instead of willy nilly disfellowshipping millions of people. and why because a few men in Brooklyn who have no real knowledge of the Bible, no humanity or real compassion thought it would make their point. "we don't have these problems in the organization". No because we disfellowhip them. We keep the organization clean" I know where the bodies are buried and they are covered in blood.
status offlineLiezel RD
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I hear what you are saying Woman BT. Where is the love that Jesus spoke of as the new command that was to reign supreme over every other command? Time and again those that are seeking out a haven and are comparing Christian churches have said that there is NO LOVE in the JW organization. They have felt it so early in their search that it makes me feel quite stupid to be so slow to fully realize it.
Although I am extremely restrained on forgiveness as I have seen contrition "enacted" so often that it sickens me, I do believe it should be there for those humble enough to ask for it when it is not a repeat offence. The Elders may not be Psychologists but they do have the guidance in the Elders Book that states there should be no disfellowshipping in the case of a person who is sorry and already hurting from their "sin". I have seen this advise often ignored as Elders play their power games. This "we are not Psychologists" quip is just a blanket cover phrase for " we want to make it sure we rub the sinner's nose in it so they are quite sure that we are better than them and above them and more righteous than they are and closer to God than they are and our standard of purity is the benchmark to be reaching for"
You are right - a delayed re-instatement can drive a person over the edge. I wonder if the Judge will pass on any comments in regard to this.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
Last Edited By: Liezel RD Apr 8 15 5:28 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Just feeling sorry for myself...
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offlinevinman
Just feeling sorry for myself...
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My wife is now really beginning to know how I
feel about the "truth". And so is my son. I think he is heading same direction. It is not as dramatic as I thought. It may help her in all reality. I was the "spiritual Hitler ". I was the one with all the big expectations for the family. My wife is very different than me in that respect. She might appreciate the relief. However, I must say I feel so sorry for her. She is auxiliary pioneering and being the best witness she can be. But it brings tears to my eyes when I think of the energy she puts in it. I want to get her out of it, but 4 months ago when I tried sharing some information, she said "you're not going to take away the only thing I have". She had tears in her eyes. I stopped talking. I realized then that some just aren't ready nor have coping skills. I have tears in my eyes just writing this. I told her I will support her the best I can.
The other thought I have going on is hard to express. Maybe you understand. When I think of the person I was, the Rock elder who gave talks without notes due to just expressing what was in my heart, the one who studied day and night, pioneered, the one who was overjoyed with being at the convention, it almost feels that I'm be disloyal to my myself. Does that make sense? The person who discovered TTATT, just feels unnatural. Almost like it is not me. Like I'm trying to live someone else's life. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not here on this forum to draw attention to myself. It just helps if I put my thoughts down in writing.
status offlineHumbleLove
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Here are some hugs to help you feel a little better.
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status offline2014myyearoflight
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(((Vinman))) yes it makes sense. I understand what you are going through. I hear you loud and clear.
I am putting together my own thoughts on a similar vein and will post on that topic in the near future.
What a difficult situation you are in, tread carefully vinman.
status offlineCacky
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It is traumatic to learn ttat when you have been in it as much as you were. I was raised Catholic, so I had another life before becoming a jw, so it wasn't as hard for me to just go back to being who I was (minus the CAtholic, I wasn't practicing), but I had a life without the jws before, so it wasn't that hard for me. I was just angry that I had been deceived. It's going to take time for you to develop a new normal for yourself.
status offlineSailAway
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vinman wrote:
My wife is now really beginning to know how I
feel about the "truth". And so is my son. I think he is heading same direction. It is not as dramatic as I thought. It may help her in all reality. I was the "spiritual Hitler ". I was the one with all the big expectations for the family. My wife is very different than me in that respect. She might appreciate the relief. However, I must say I feel so sorry for her. She is auxiliary pioneering and being the best witness she can be. But it brings tears to my eyes when I think of the energy she puts in it. I want to get her out of it, but 4 months ago when I tried sharing some information, she said "you're not going to take away the only thing I have". She had tears in her eyes. I stopped talking. I realized then that some just aren't ready nor have coping skills. I have tears in my eyes just writing this. I told her I will support her the best I can.
The other thought I have going on is hard to express. Maybe you understand. When I think of the person I was, the Rock elder who gave talks without notes due to just expressing what was in my heart, the one who studied day and night, pioneered, the one who was overjoyed with being at the convention, it almost feels that I'm be disloyal to my myself. Does that make sense? The person who discovered TTATT, just feels unnatural. Almost like it is not me. Like I'm trying to live someone else's life. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not here on this forum to draw attention to myself. It just helps if I put my thoughts down in writing.
Welcome to the forum Vinman! I've been reading your posts. I think you are doing your wife a kindness in backing away from sharing TTATT with her. I, too, was the all-in JW-- not a male, so not an elder or MS, but I did everything asked of a "spiritually strong sister", including full time pioneering, pioneer school, auxiliary pioneering, RBC work, meals for C.O.s and D.O.s, substitute talks on a moment's notice, visiting, cooking and caring for the sick and elderly, spring and fall KH cleanups, maintenance days at the assembly halls, cleaning before and after conventions, driving "weak ones" to and from assemblies, meetings and field service, gardening work locally, cooking and cleanup for three rebuilds (extensive mold remediation work needed), etc. I studied for every meeting, and read all the publications backward and forwards. I commented at every meeting without fail and rarely missed a meeting. I had a family study with my kids. I helped them prepare for their TMS talks and for field service. I knew and could teach all the JW theology. My motivation? I wanted my kids to survive Armageddon, even if I didn't. I always felt unworthy and like I wasn't doing enough. I knew my husband wasn't going to return, so it was all on me. This is a cruel hook that the WTB$ has in the jaws of faithful ones. The last JW standing in the family holds the bag. It is painful.
What I'm saying is that I get the totality of your loss-- your faith, your place in the congregation, a feeling of belonging and working for the greater good, your focus and purpose in life, the feeling of living in a safe, protective bubble, the security of having a routine to follow, the feeling that we had all the answers, all of it. It is devastating, but it is something that we can work through. I read that it takes about a month for every year IN to process the loss. That would be 42 months for me (IN from about age nine until my 52nd birthday), and I would say the timing is about right. So give yourself a break. Armegeddon isn't coming tomorrow or any time soon. Give your wife time and most of all your unconditional love and support. We will be rooting for you!
SailAway
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
status offlinevinman
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Thanks Sailaway.
Wow!! You certainly did it all. It just continues to amaze me how people like yourself never dreamed you would be where you are now. I do appreciate your words. It gives me confidence that I'm doing things the right way. It will take time. I did promise my wife I wasn't going to become some strange man with no morals. In fact, I feel I can show more love, since "love" in the org. was very conditional. Thanks again.
status offlineLocutus
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vinman.. welcome. I was a true believer too, just a mere 35 years ago.
I can't add anything to SailAway's post except to nod and agree with her. I think she nailed it.
Your morals will not desert you upon leaving the org. That is their myth! Stick to your basic human values and use common sense.
I wish you all the best in your journey out.
T
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Your morals will not desert you upon leaving the org. That is their myth! Stick to your basic human values and use common sense.
Deserves to be repeated.
Your standard of morality will evolve and that is perfectly normal.
When we were small children we probably did everything our parents told us.
Eventually we grow up and form our own opinions about how life should be lived.
Leaving the Org is like entering another growth phase.
The possibilites for how to live life expand.
Yet I still chose not to rob banks! smiley: eek
lol
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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I will add to Auth's comment that that growth stage is very real but it can proceed pretty quickly. When I left the JWs I was 41. I kind of picked up where I left off...16! But I also had a lot of my accumulated knowlege and pretty quickly 'caught up'. I am the same 'sister' that people in the congregation used to know and 'love'...conditionally albeit...just not JW. You will do fine if you just take it a day at a time.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Vinman.....I know only too well those feelings you describe!! But then how are we expected to feel when we were so sure that we had the real truth, when we gave so much of ourselves to something that doesn't actually exist...
In fact, I feel I can show more love, since "love" in the org. was very conditional
I think that is a great point, and one that you should concentrate on!! We have often said that the best way to show those still enslaved, about life outside the religion, is to be happy...that seems easier said than done when you are feeling vulnerable....but trying to feel positive about your decision to take back your life, will have positive effects on your loved ones....
Suddenly your wife will be aware that she is no longer at the 'bottom of the list' of your jw duties, and that your love for her is enriched, rather than diminished by your decision!!! I think you are doing so well, stay strong!! You were strong for so many years for the organisation.....use that strength for those you love!!
Hugs
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Hang in there Vinman; it is very perplexing to start with. The time will come soon when you will be proud of yourself for having had the courage to get out of the old religion.
You are already aware of the need to understand your wife’s situation. She will feel disappointed and unsettled by your withdrawing from the congregation. In my own case my wife became an unreasonable super JW zealot in compensation for her loss of a witness partner which led to a breakdown of the marriage and much heartache. I can see you are trying hard to avoid anything like that by giving your other half your unconditional support. I’m sure that is the best way for opening up a better communication on the deeper matters at some time in the future.
Keep posting and yes we’re gunning for you.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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I was in a similar situation to you when I left 5 years ago (almost to the day actually). I was quite a strict JW, but my wife was more laid back. I was a Ministerial Servant, giving public talks, etc., and I used to pressure her to get to the meetings when she didn't feel up to it. I wonder whether sometimes our attitude makes a difference to whether or not we wake up - as in, perhaps those who are not so strict are better able to make allowances and excuses for the things that don't make sense. My wife is still a JW, and I doubt she would be able to cope very well without it. It is hard, but it is still possible to make the marriage work - we mostly try to avoid discussing the religion now (she knows enough to know it is not the truth, but she still believes it anyway).
Free e-Book: Jehovah's Witnesses - Reasons for Leaving (and for not joining).
Russ.
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maksutov wrote:
I wonder whether sometimes our attitude makes a difference to whether or not we wake up - as in, perhaps those who are not so strict are better able to make allowances and excuses for the things that don't make sense.
I also suspect that "serious" witnesses are more likely to be disillusioned if they come upon the right data.
OTOH there are people who aren't "zealous" who'll probably remain JWs for life despite not being model JWs.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinevinman
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Agree auth. I was that serious witness who accidentally came across the right data and it unravelled from there. What you said is what makes it frustrating. It is the deep thinking person/witness that opens his eyes and he is the one in the most pain. I'm there.
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Welcome vinman. I can say I am happy you are here. As everyone has said keep it stready and don't rush your wife. Try and pursue your hobbies that you may haven't been able to do because of time restraints from JW tasks(slave labor). Remind her of what she always did or wanted to do...
status offlineCacky
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If you are still into researching, the youtube site, jwstruggle and cedar's blog are good sites. Recent ex-jws who had been elders. One of them, his wife divorced him because he left the org. The other, his wife learned ttat along with him, so they left pretty much together. They have good things. Jwstruggle has good interviews of former elders, bethelites, etc. I enjoy both. edit to add, cedar's blog can be found by googling. It's also called jwsurvery. He does some youtube videos as well.
status offlineKBG
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vinman wrote:
.... I want to get her out of it, but 4 months ago when I tried sharing some information, she said "you're not going to take away the only thing I have". She had tears in her eyes. I stopped talking. I realized then that some just aren't ready nor have coping skills....I think that is the hardest and scariest lesson for me. When they see the lie beginning to be exposed, they'd rather live with "THE TRUTH" than with the honest truth. Its so ironic that they go door-to-door still. Once I saw THE TRUTH for the lie it was, I really didn't want to convert already happy people to it. I look at THE TRUTH like an addictive substance. Some people can do drinking and drugs and walk away from it when they choose to, others cannot.
Vinman, I hope you can work your way to a happier life. I won't sugar coat it though. It will be harder to have an honest relationship with your wife because you will be shielding her from the real you and what you really think to allow her to keep her illusion, and she knows it. I know because I dance around a relationship with my mother avoiding and glancing over the truth on many topics because of her need for THE TRUTH.
Please sound off to us whenever you need to. Your situation, especially at this time, is no picnic.
And I'm so glad you are not here to draw attention to yourself, I don't need the competition.
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> Just feeling sorry for myself...
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> It's the same old story with fence-rider
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It's the same old story with fence-rider
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offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
It's the same old story with fence-rider
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Jan 7 15 6:14 AM
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I'm sickened to my stomach dealing with someone that continues to hate.
I've done much for what others have suggested...and you all do help me stay focused.
It became another game for my sister to show how much hate she is full of - meantime, her God is Jehovah.
And so, despite what has taken place this week...I'm having a good day.
My sister hates..I'm learning how others love.
She would not come and get "free" food that was donated to us for sharing...
The other evening when she told me "I have to move". She only moves because that's her choice because she is not happy living where she is.
Believe me, this is a vent letter.
I'm extremely sad thinking that my sister [fence-rider] is so unhappy.
I've also learned that there is nothing we can do for helping her because she will always be unhappy.
Each day I offer a prayer...not being a Bible believer, I do use Scripture for research, and I sickened knowing my sister still continues believing in the JW ...and she continues using others.
Thanks for letting me vent. Today will be a fun day ...
status offlineCacky
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Jan 7 15 7:21 AM
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She hates I think because her God Jehovah hates. Look at all the terrible things done in the OT, lead by Jah. Vent all you need to. That's one thing we're here for.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Jan 7 15 9:47 AM
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Thank you Cacky for responding.
Each moment makes a difference.smiley: grin
I've written so much in the past concerning this issue [ I'm actually tired of listening it myself]
I'm going to have a happy day celebrating life with those that do likewise. As in we are loving.
The more I read the Bible - even for research- the more I'm convinced it's a book of hate.
I will never accept Jehovah as my God!
Thank goodness we have other members that do the research they do and share with us.
Love, Lin and John because he knows ya'll help mesmiley: grin
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Jan 10 15 6:58 PM
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Hi Lin ..... your sister like so many other jdubs ... loves misery for company. She is probably quite jealous of the fact that you and John lead a normal, ordinary, every day life ...... and that's why she carries on like a pork chop so much!
The bible is a book written by a whole bunch of men .... interpreted and re-interpreted time and time again. Your sister relies on the fact that she has 'the truth' ...... and will overlook that so many hundreds of other religions claim the exact same thing! The reason why the WBTS stands out so much from other religions ... is because they go out of their way TO stand out. Let's give god a name so that no-one else can use it ... bang ... up comes Jehovah. No-one will use that name now for fear of being labelled 'one of those Jehovah people'. Want to stand out more ... let's give up Christmas ... bang ....... they're the weird ones who don't do Christmas. They forget to tell their own followers that they DID celebrate Christmas and if the issue is raised ... it's down to the old 'imperfect men' excuse.
Your sister is indoctrinated ... miserable ... and too scared to live OR die. Aren't you bloody glad to be out of that! What you could do with her the next time she starts waffling ... is just say 'let's agree to disagree ....' and then see if she wants a cuppa!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Jan 11 15 1:44 AM
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It's sad when I wanted going to the psycho ward because I have allowed her to take controlargh
So, now I'm taking back my control- yes I canPlaying cards and I'm doing my best for staying away from her.
We've done everything possible for helping her...and now it's up to me to tell her, "we're finished."
I'm not going to destroy my marriage over her...because John is in between us; trying to keep peace.
So, if John finds peace with his religion and Lorna and I continue doing what we do...it's now mine to tell her she had best stay away from me because I'm staying away from her.
Thanks for your support. Love, Lin and John
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Jan 24 15 7:27 AM
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I cavedsmiley: mad because she knows how to work me...
She will have use of our computer for two weeks because of some on-line class she wants taking.
I really don't want her around me for all the hours she needs doing on our computer but I did agree to two weeks.
After that, I'm just sick thinking I might fall back into her game of, "I can't afford" and "Can you help Me".
It's for finding those boundaries of being able to feel comfortable for saying NO and not have the guilt trip because she thinks others should take care of her problems [$$$].
t
Last Edited By: Linda Jan 24 15 7:39 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Jan 26 15 8:48 PM
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Thank ya'll for offering me the support.
It's going to be good because she won't get her way....not with John and I. We do not like her religion and I'm always saying how much love we extend your way...
Before I shut down...being a sappy baby that cry's all the time...Take courage, be strong and share with others.making out
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Jan 28 15 10:16 PM
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The guilt trip is something someone uses to make you feel bad Lin ...... as in your sister's case. She is using her personal knowledge of you to get what she wants ....... so YOU can use YOUR personal knowledge of HER ..... and get in first next time with a 'thanks sis but no thanks ..... I'll be busy on the computer for a while myself'. If she asks why .... you can smile enigmatically and leave it at that.
As I say to my boys ...... the only people they have to explain themselves to are us as parents ........ and to school staff providing the question they are being asked is not overstepping the boundaries of a teacher/student relationship. I tell them that saying 'no' is perfectly fine providing they do so without malice and are not deliberately trying to upset someone. There's a whole host of things we are slowly introducing to them .... and it's paying off. You're an adult and have the right to say 'no' without providing an explanation to your sister ....... so Lin up Lin ....... and have a go next time eh!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineBrandonjay
My sister tried to have me arrested for domestic #8 [-]
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Apr 3 15 11:56 PM
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After joining a Christian mens transitional housing.
I'm here because I put a Christmas tree up in my house in 2013. My dad lived downstairs , and two days later I'm be investigated for domestic violence.
There is a lot more to the story. I'm just now seeing the clear picture.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Apr 7 15 12:24 AM
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Hi there Brandonjay and welcome .......
Hmm ..... investigated for domestic violence just for putting up a Christmas tree? That's awful. I put one up every year whether my jdub rellies visit or not ....... unless you're whacking your current or former partner with a branch off the tree or one of the baubles ...... it's a pretty weird call to jump from putting up a tree to domestic violence isn't it! It's amazing what some alleged loved ones will do to their own family members isn't it. I hope you find some solace and advice in here.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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