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The Unexpected Kindness of the World
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Posted on July 21, 2015
Random acts of kindness by "worldly" people are not as rare as most Witnesses might expect
Random acts of kindness by “worldly” people are not as rare as most Witnesses might expect
As a Jehovah’s Witness child, our religious community was seen as a spiritual paradise in contrast to all other organizations on earth. This mindset was routinely emphasized in Watchtower publications.
One Watchtower assures us that “[God] has made it possible for honest hearted ones to move out of the wicked world, figuratively speaking, and into the spiritual paradise that he has created.” (“Dwell on What Jehovah Has Done for You,” Watchtower, 15 January 2011)
Our worldwide brotherhood did seem rather impressive to my young mind. Wherever we were, it was no rare thing to find ourselves staying over and sharing dinner with new Witness “friends.” Over a home cooked meal we’d swap “How did you come into the truth?” stories, make small-talk over the latest Watchtower publications, and after us kids were hushed away to listen to taped Bible dramas, the adults might engage in gossip over those that had recently succumbed to the world.
“The world” was JW jargon to encapsulate everyone that didn’t happen to also be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Faithful members were encouraged to be vigilant, because any number of demonic lures could snatch a loyal Witness from Jehovah’s organization into the clutches of the wicked world. A hushed mention of the term was enough to carry my mind to Live Forever book illustrations; I mentally transposed the faces of the disfellowshipped over those of opium addicts, disco harlots, and gay cowboys.
1982_Live_Forever_Pg_131
Live Forever book, page 131
1982_Live_Forever_Pg_182
Live Forever book, page 182
This condemnation was not exclusively reserved for the unreligious. Other Christian faiths were considered to be part of the wicked world. And our religious publications seldom wasted an opportunity to contrast the JW version of Christianity with our competitors.
For example, the 2014 Yearbook contains the account of a Somali woman who accepted an invitation to visit a Kingdom Hall. There she grew angry when no one welcomed her and stormed out of the door. Later when she told her experience to the Witness that had invited her, they all realized that she had mistakenly visited another church building. The anecdote ends by sharing that the Somali woman eventually found the Kingdom Hall, was warmly welcomed, and became a regular attender.
Accounts like this are used to infer that even among the religions of “the world” there is no kindness like that of the Witnesses. There is another undercurrent that runs through this and similar JW anecdotes. A warm welcome is merely the first step in the conversion process.
As an adult, I began to see that the JW version of kindness didn’t always match the Watchtower picture. The initial love bombing was soon replaced by a sort of caste system that celebrated those that held position and disregarded those that didn’t live up to the heavy load imposed by the Governing Body. And those that ran afoul of any number of the religion’s rules might be expelled.
Witnesses that once rushed to embrace someone entering through the front door would as quickly turn away from someone shoved out the back. I experienced this myself when I was disfellowshipped for the crime of not agreeing.
After separating from the Witnesses, I accepted invitations to visit other churches. In attending some of these religious rivals, I couldn’t help but notice similarities. As I entered old churches, converted theaters, and the occasional dank basement, I was bombarded by smiling, Holy book-holding people. Questions such as “Who are you?” and “Are you visiting?” were quickly followed by invitations for Bible study and baptism. The jargon was different but the experiences weren’t far off from my JW background.
It also wasn’t rare for those groups to claim exclusivity due to the love they showed one another. An acquaintance that was raised in a high control group, commonly called the 2×2’s, talked about how his own childhood was marked by religious-vacations to stay at the houses of various “friends.” His mother was proud that they could count on anyone of their faith to take them in off the road. It sounded like my own family.
After I separated from the JW religion, it was sometimes a challenge to integrate into the world. A discomfort or awkwardness lingered when associating with people of different backgrounds. The stigma was all on me due to my upbringing. But over time I widened out and met people of different backgrounds – some of whom became real friends.
Recently I took a trip to western North Carolina, a scenic area on the east coast of the United States. My girlfriend and I were hosted by a couple who lived half-way up a tall mountain with gorgeous views of the scenery. We were complete strangers, just introduced online. We made shrimp and steak tacos for our hosts as a small thanks for the paradise-like accommodations that would have rivaled the most exclusive resort. As we drank frosty bottles of Negra Modelo with our new friends, we learned about their incredible lives.
mountain_home
The North Carolina mountain retreat where we stayed
He was 60’s student who enlisted in the military to serve in the Vietnam war before getting out as an objector after a crisis of conscience. Back home he became a street flower vendor before opening his own shop. She was an ethnobotanist that toured the world conducting research for National Geographic. He told us about the local foliage. She told us that cannibals loved SPAM, because it allegedly tastes like human flesh.
For example, many use tobacco, chew betel nut, or take drugs for recreational purposes. – “A Godly View of Life”, What Does the Bible Teach?
And she told us about betel nut. As a JW, betel nut was considered another of Satan’s machinations that could catapult an unsuspecting Witness straight into the world. It was up there with marijuana and tobacco, though no one seemed to know exactly what it was. Our host told us that betel nut was chewed by islanders from the age of nine onward. It resulted in addiction and the loss of teeth. Thanks to the Watchtower I dodged the bullet on that one. I could have had dentures at eleven!
The couple enthusiastically explained that they had made hospitality their way of life since touring Europe as young adults. Although decades had past, they vividly gave accounts of being approached to share a tent, roof or meal. When they returned to the States, they wanted to do the same and have continued to open their home to others passing through.
As we toured the local downtown an Eastern-European girl approached asking for directions. She was working as a counselor at a rural summer camp and was planning to walk back. The couple insisted they drive her. As we dropped her off and waved goodbye, we exchanged smiles and waves that transcended language. And there were no religious tracts exchanged.
We only stayed two nights, though our hosts implored us to stay more. Instead we set out to explore the local area, camping high in the middle of an expansive forest. By day we ventured down into the valley towns and city. One night we ended up staying too late enjoying cocktails and local music. A greeting to another couple led to another invitation to stay over.
The next afternoon another set of new acquaintances took care of our lunch bill. Beyond hospitality and food, we received housing advice, job leads, personal tours, conversation, and more. All came without an expectation of anything in return, not even a visit to a church building.
In religions like JW’s, kindness is not free or without conditions. When directed toward outsiders it is with the anticipation that it will lead to a conversion. But as easily as it is given, it quickly goes away whenever someone runs afoul of the religion. It’s true that in many places in the world kindness may be rare, but to insinuate that it can only come within one tiny Christian sect is simply false. It’s a lie told to enforce us-versus-them style thought control.
The more I’m exposed to the world, the more I’m exposed to genuinely kind people that give from the heart rather than religious obligation. And like my hosts, it motivates me to want to show similar kindness to others. Have you ever experienced unexpected kindness from “the world?” Please share it in the comments.
anthony-signature2
Anthony Mathenia is the author of a new JW fiction novel Happiness, Next Exit, to be released August 24th. Follow him on Twitter at @armathenia.
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29 Responses to The Unexpected Kindness of the World
sally1914 says:
July 21, 2015 at 4:30 am
The experience I’m sharing was my daughter’s. She and her husband went grocery shopping, gathering just over $100.00 worth of food. When they went to pay, every one of their credit cards/debit cards were declined! Close to tears, they had a stranger come along and pay their bill. They gave thanks to the Lord for providing. She has plans to open a room over the garage in her new home, for the homeless. They told me of this with wonder and tears.
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Angus Robertson says:
July 21, 2015 at 4:51 am
Great article. Since leaving have experienced so much unconditional kindness from neighbors and strangers alike. The support offered when my wife and I were DF’d (again for not agreeing) was incredible. You don’t need religion to be a good person and cults certainly do not hold exclusivity on hospitality.
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Kat says:
July 21, 2015 at 4:54 am
Being and older citizen and don’t drive because of a disability, my neighbor is always asking if they can take me to help with my shopping, this terrible worldly person asks nothing in return, however if I don’t ask JW they wont offer.
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Andrea says:
July 21, 2015 at 5:54 am
This was one of the eye-opening things for me when I left the JW community.
I had previously thought that there may not be a lot of kindness or generosity to see outside the org. How mistaken I was – so many people, some complete strangers, have turned out to be so kind or helpful without any agenda or expecting anything in return. I’ve similarly have met mean people, but I’ve also experienced the same from within the organisation… Truly, kindness or meanness is not determined by religion or lack thereof.
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Jill Hileman says:
July 21, 2015 at 6:28 am
It seems we all have the similar experience of shock and some level of dismay when “worldly people” prove to be so much more than the religious stamp assigned to them, so much more than the stark portrait painted to keep us distant and fearful.
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Thinking of leaving says:
July 21, 2015 at 7:10 am
To be honest I found the way I was treated when exiting to be some what perplexing. I was actively involved (well at least superficially as a publisher)for 4 decades in the religion.On finding out TTATT and beginning my fade I had not one elders visit, and only 3 publishers on 2 separate visits could be bothered to knock on my door to see how I was. In my life time I knew 1000s of witnesses and it still blows my mind to think how they will mindlessly go D2D knocking on empty houses and yet give so little attention to those exiting out the back door. Well it’s not like I’m complaining however. Keep up the good work Watchtower!!
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StrongHaiku says:
July 21, 2015 at 7:25 am
That was a great article and resonated with me. You asked the question ‘Have you ever experienced unexpected kindness from “the world?”’. I would answer with an unequivocal ‘yes’. Further, I would say it wasn’t until I have been out for a while that I learned how I had been indoctrinated to be xenophobic, sexist, racist, classist, etc. by this religion and the God it follows. And, this makes sense as one of the central tenets of religion is to make the in-group feel privileged and special by dehumanizing and demonizing the out-group.
If you have left the JWs, you may be happy (and feel smart) that you no longer follow a corrupt organization. However, you may still have a lot of work to do to reconnect with your humanity. Take the time to revisit everything you believe (and assume) beyond the theology. You may find you are still carrying a lot of bad ideas and baggage.
When I compare who I am today vs. who I was before, I am ashamed. Based on how I see things today, I don’t think I was truly a good person then, but I am working on it…
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Steve McRoberts says:
July 21, 2015 at 7:37 am
Great point, StrongHaiku. I feel exactly the same way.
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Darlene says:
July 21, 2015 at 10:58 am
I feel the same and appreciate you bringing that out in hte open!
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Darlene says:
July 21, 2015 at 10:59 am
the… typo. :-)
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Grace says:
July 21, 2015 at 3:41 pm
@StrongHaiku,
Everything you said in that comment was so true & how much I observed over the years myself too. I couldn’t have said it any better than that. “Xenophobic, sexist, racist, classist”.
I happened to be watching the original 1984 movie with my nieces the other day. We go to the bit where the crowd were watching the big screen shouting “hate! hate! hate!” & I turned to my niece & said this is like the outward aggressive version of being a Witness. You’re subtly indoctrinated to hate. Hate the world, hate gays, hate other religions, hate anyone that is not a JW & sometimes even hate those that are, hate the disfellowshipped but most of all, HATE APOSTATES!!!!
And they can deny that they hate but at the end of the day, they are wishing for all of these people to be dead one day.
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Marty says:
July 21, 2015 at 7:32 am
I experienced this when the JW I worked for, along with his son, suddenly let me go after 15 years of hard graft without as much as a “Thank You”.
Struggling financially I finally had a job offer from a “worldly” person for full time employment. The reason he asked me was that the guy he had before was unreliable, lazy, incompetent and a liability. That guy was, and still is a JW!
So, yes there is such a thing as genuine kindness in the “World”!
P.S All the folks I have met since leaving this toxic cult have proven far more loving and sincere individuals than most of the JW’s I knew for the 23 years I was “in”
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Steve McRoberts says:
July 21, 2015 at 7:33 am
Great post, Anthony!
Changing names, but here’s a true story.
Paul and Mary were in the same congregation and kept in touch by mail after he had faded and she had disassociated. There was no romantic ties, as there was a big age difference, and Mary was married: they were just friends. One day Mary wrote to Paul that her daughter, whom she had at 16 and had given up for adoption, was now an adult and had tracked her down. She and her daughter corresponded for a while, and they desperately wanted to meet in person. The problem was: they were both poor, and lived across the country from each other.
Paul, though he was working part-time as a janitor, bought a non-refundable round-trip plane ticket for Mary to visit her daughter, and mailed it to her. Mary was overjoyed and she flew to meet her daughter and had a tearful reunion.
A sad postscript: Shortly after this, Mary went back to the Witnesses and immediately cut off all contact with Paul.
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John Baptist says:
July 21, 2015 at 8:30 am
First of all good article Anthony. These are subjects that are good to cover in order to see the True reality of this Man made Religion that requires you to serve their leaders unconditionally but yet in return they put conditions on you being accepted in to their fold. How Sad and completely wrong.
True Love and compassion is UNCONDITIONAL!
And there are countless humans in this “WORLD” that display this on a daily basis.
But when your a Billion dollar toxic cult that indoctrinates its members by throwing out LABELS and hoping they stick, you really realize how far off base and out there they are in their thought processes.
I have been that child who was required by force to conform since the age of 10 and was forced to be baptized at 15 or else.
Since not agreeing with their false prophecy’s but remaining a Christian i was ousted out and what ensued was beyond belief. And they call this LOVE?
My then wife told me i was not worth investing in since i was not part of the religion anymore and degraded me and forced me out of the relationship. Again a relationship based on conditions as well as a relationship with a organisation based on conditions.
So there i was tossed out like garbage and falsely accused of horrendous drama filled accusations without proof. Again is this unconditional Christ like Love in operation? Absolutely Not!!
The life that followed was of abrupt change to which i am so thankful and have not one regret.
Since being ousted to the “World” i have regained my mental stability in reality. Yes there are folks out there that are bad to be associated with but there are just as much inside those four Kingdom Hall walls who disguise it with their own dual personality. One when their inside the hall and one when their outside. We all know what i’m talking about here.
Since 1992 i have relationships with people who are really “Honest Hearted” and who to this day wouldn’t hesitate to call on for help and they would give it unconditionally. This is true love based on relationships that have stood the test of time.
In my circle of friends i would trust any of them and they likewise with me. And they all come from different faiths and backgrounds.
Its no wonder the Watchtower Society paints literally in their publications such worthless propaganda when it comes to the “World” because they hold you Hostage from seeing the Real “Truth” about it.
Wake up Folks and regain your own life back from this ever indoctrinating religion that TRULY wastes your life and time!
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anonymous says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:09 am
All the fifty years I was in the “truth” I was made to feel bad if I contributed to any charity that wasn’t the Watchtower organization. In the United States there are hospitals that take sick kids and they never receive a bill. There’s all kinds of charities for children with cancer and all kinds of illnesses that parents don’t have the money for. Even McDonalds has Ronald McDonald houses for parents to stay when their child is being treated for cancer.
When one of the three times after I stopped going to meetings, two elders stopped by to talk to me, I brought up that there are a lot of worldly people who do many good things for people just because they are good people and the two elders looked at me blankly and denied it and implied I was lying.
There are charities for children, animals and veterans from the military. There’s charities to help people live in homes that they can’t afford to buy. People start charities for people whose houses have burned up in fires and have suffered from floods. The list goes on and on but Witnesses turn a blind eye to it.
They turn their backs on anything that might help their fellow man and think that if they have an extra dollar in their pocket, the only honorable place to put it is in the contribution box at the Kingdom Hall because they think with that dollar, just maybe somebody might get a Watchtower magazine and read it and it will give them everlasting life in the new world. Their kids are even made to feel guilty if they don’t take their allowances and put that in the contribution boxes.
Now that I have left the Organization, I see those charities as what they really are. They are real charities, unlike the fake charity of the Watchtower Organization. The Watchtower Organization’s only charity is to take money for themselves so they can buy more property.
If anyone of Jehovah’s Witnesses comes into hard times, the Society will put the guilt on the Witnesses’
close friends to help them out.
You will never see a video from the Society where the Organization will help out the motherless child or the widows or the person who lost his job so he could attend the meetings. It ain’t never gonna happen. Not in our lifetime.
What Witnesses are told to do is put their trust in Jehovah. If Jehovah doesn’t help them out of their hard times, it has to be because Jehovah isn’t blessing them because they are doing something wrong and they will turn a blind eye to their problems.
If a Witness needs food or rent money or anything else, they will have to go to a worldy food bank or ask for charity from one of Christendom’s charities and this will happen, no matter how many years of free voluntary service that Witness did for the Organization.
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Average Joe says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:25 am
There are good people both inside and outside the JW organisation. JWs don’t have the monopoly on being nice, loving people. However, the other can be said too. Not every JW is a heartless self-centred individual either. It all boils down to who you are as a person, at your core. If you are a decent individual then that will shine through no matter what religion or creed your profess.
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Catalina says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:29 am
Anthony Mathenia I agree with you. In religions like JW’s, kindness is not free or without conditions. This article is awesome. Please let me share my experience with you. The august 15, 2000 watchtower has an article called, The Only Way to Eradicate Hate. This article shows three sisters of James Byrd Jr are Jehovah’s Witnesses. In 1998 three white men dragged James Byrd Jr behind a truck for two miles because he was black. The coroner’s report showed James Byrd kept his head up while he was being dragged until he was killed. James Byrd Jr’s sisters feel Jehovah God and the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is their haven from the outside world, (satan’s world). I can’t imagine how his sisters feel. I can’t imagine the thoughts they must have. If I was them I’d want to kill every white man I’d see. My father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1943. His family is very bigoted and racist. For example : My dad’s sister is not a JW, she is baptist. Her daughter teaches in sunday school. She and her daughter speak very negatively about colored people. They call all colored people niggers and are hateful towards them in public. I was with them one time when we saw a white girl with a black man at a movie theater and they made rude comments to the couple. I felt very uncomfortable. The couple got really offended and angry. I said to the couple, I’m sorry you guys, I don’t feel that way. They asked me why I hung out with them. If my father hadn’t become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1943 he would have continued to act like that. I’m glad I was raised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because I really did get something good out of it. I have problems with the religion but I have problems with all religions and I disregard all religions. My psychiatrist wants me to remember the good things I’ve experienced in life, love my JW family, forgive them and move on. I know I don’t want to be like my non JW family because they are creepy and hateful. My JW family is a lot nicer. I visit my jw family and they don’t know anything about my private life. I keep my financial situation, my sex life, my political views and my religious views to myself because I know those issues aren’t anyone else’s business. Fortunately I live in a different state from my family. I don’t get to pushy with my JW family. I know when to shut up. I’m learning how respect is given and received in therapy. My psychiatrist says it takes two things to be happy in life. 1.) Don’t expect everyone to agree with you. and 2.) Don’t expect everyone to like you. I’m in therapy for emotional abuse. It is helping. The idea of being a jw and being separate from the world helped my dad with his bigotry. My dad moved us to California in 1964 to get us away from his family. I’m glad the JW religion helped my dad improve his attitude with bigotry. My dad encouraged my brother to date a colored sister when my brother expressed he liked her ! my brother did so. Everyone is fighting their own battles in life. I’m learning from the group therapy. It’s rare to find a non dysfunctional family. People use religion as a crutch. Religious leaders abuse their power. Therapy teaches us to stay away from a particular family member who adds stress to our life. I’m not alone. In therapy I’ve learned this is what happens when people can’t agree to disagree. Articles like the one you wrote helps people a lot. Thank you.
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Average Joe says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:29 am
On a side point Anthony, I’d totally forgotten about the “Gay Cowboys”!
If Jehovah disapproves of Disco then I’m in big trouble given my hefty vinyl collection of Bee Gees, EW&F, Sly & The Family Stone etc! :)
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kofybean says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:37 am
“The world”. What a joke. The shoud of bigotry and racism stand before you.
“And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?” -Matthew 5:47
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:40 am
“worldly people” are naturally beautiful as they do not read JW Publications. Hateful teachings that Watchtower instills subtly into Jehovah’s Witnesses’ minds constitute a vibrant evidence than one can transform humans into animals so easily using hateful publications:
*** w07 7/1 p. 13 par. 4 Highlights From the Book of Ezekiel—I ***
We do not need to let our eye feel sorry for those who receive God’s adverse judgment or feel compassion for them.
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Queen Elsa says:
July 21, 2015 at 1:23 pm
Sounds like a sociopath.
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Average Joe says:
July 21, 2015 at 9:43 am
@kofybean.
Excellent use of scripture and a very valid point!
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Criticus says:
July 21, 2015 at 10:05 am
All,
I can only add what others & myself have said repeatedly by now:
The worst people I ever had to deal with are JWs; the kindest individuals I ever came across are “bad worldly unbelievers”, including those whose humanity, religiosity, and TRUE spirituality would let some of the most raging fundamentalist-JWs look like godless brutes.
It is as simple as that. I could append this with a long biography, relating my experiences as a long-time “Full Time Servant”, including work at several foreign branch offices. What I was forced to witness and to suffer there beggars all description; in general, it was rotten and corrupt; in part, it was criminal. Beyond my “glorious” Bethel experiences, I witnessed (and still do) recurring arrogance, conceit, self exaltation, hubris, vanity, sheer stupidity, coupled with crude and outright abuse of power on the part of very small and low characters across a number of congregations half around the globe. This has nothing to do with occasional “human imperfection”, as is the standard Watchtower excuse to brush aside those gross and intrinsic “failures and flaws” of the Watchtower system. The more I was exerting myself acc. to the book and by the letter in all that I deemed was laid upon me as my “sacred duty”, the more I got treated like crap within the sunny “spiritual paradise”. Even if you are a “model-JW”, this is no guarantee that you “are in ‘good standing’ “, and you still may get whipped, spanked, rebuked, berated, reprimanded, “counseled”, depending of who doesn’t like your face or your nose or may simply feel challenged by you or your very existence. Wherever I go, wherever I look within the “divine organization by its own grace”, I see the same distinctive spirit floating around and permeating it like a bad stench: One of arrogance, conceit, haughtiness and superiority. Needless to state that this is not the “spirit from above”, but it is “earthly, unspiritual, demonic”, James 3,15. It is not God’s Holy Spirit that is breathing through this manmade entity called “Watchtower”, or “JW.Org”, or whatever its fallible human leaders who deem themselves gods may still call it.
In contrast, during the past few years I had the pleasure and the privilege to meet people – non-JWs, “worldly people”, “unbelievers” by WTS-standards – who show respect, decency, politeness and appreciation, not only for a job well done, but for you as a person and a human being. Happily, it is suchlike people I am now having dealings with on a day-to-day basis, and it didn’t take much to realize what humongous cognitive dissonance any JW is hauling around who gets pounded into his brain by Watchtower/JW.Org that “we are the best, we are the only ones showing true Christian love” – really??? Just because “we” don’t take up arms to go to war? Read up on this and educate yourself, to see how many more there are who didn’t and don’t go to war – not bec. of being told by a human Central Committee, but bec. of TRULY being human, using their own god-given mental faculties, based on their OWN well-cultivated convictions. And how about this “weapon” – the “tongue that stabs like a sword” – isn’t this a weapon too? And oh how busy it is among all those gossiping, chattering, backstabbing, pettily critical, judgmental Witnesses who are talking behind each others’ backs, knowing exactly when, how & where Witness Such-And-Such miserably flunked and failed to live up to petty little manmade standards, “not doing enough” and not “being exemplary”.
“4 legs goooood – 2 legs baaaaad – JW goooood – non-JW baaaaad” – not in my book any longer, dear comrades & fellows.
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rob says:
July 21, 2015 at 10:51 am
I absolutely hate the term “worldly people” and after leaving the witness religion I have made friendships with many people who are kind, spiritual and charitable and who are extremely trustworthy.
I knew some very wonderful people who were witnesses but unfortunately for many of those individuals friendship came with a caveat ” the witness religion comes first and friendship can only be conditional on being friends with those who follow the witness rules”
When I faded these individuals faded from me because I no longer was a witness. Makes me sad to think that people will allow themselves to be told who they can associate with and who can be a part of their lives.
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Ted says:
July 21, 2015 at 10:51 am
While still entrenched in that awful religion, and indoctrinated
to think those outside were godless and selfish, I experienced
kindness from a total stranger that gave me pause.
On my way to work one winters morning, my old car stalled.
I lifted the bonnet ( hood) to check for any apparent cause,
when an expensive looking car going in the opposite direction
pulled up on the other side of the road. A well dressed man
came across to me asking if I needed assistance? which I did.
Between us, we decide the problem was a flat battery, he asked
if had a towline and he would pull my car to get it started, but I
did not have a towline.
He then produced from his trunk what looked like a small rug
and wrapped it round his front bumper ( fender) and said,
“As he couldn’t pull me along, he would push me.
He then turned his car around, in the opposite direction to his
intended journey, and without concern of damage to his own
vehicle, he pushed me along for several hundred yards till my
old banger sparked into life, Afraid to pull up, in case it stalled
again, I kept on driving, never even having the chance to thank
him. But all these years after I still remember his kindness.
Cult driven misanthropy is false. There are millions of genuine
Good Samaritans out there.
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Darlene says:
July 21, 2015 at 11:03 am
I have always despised the term “worldly people!” I was brainwashed into the org for 40 years! My family and I have experienced some of the worst treatment from jw’s than I care to remember now. When I left and began to visit different Churches, I was always welcomed and encouraged! Not only the first time, but every time!
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It'sJustMe says:
July 21, 2015 at 11:47 am
The seven pharisees of the “governing body” and their appointed underlings have much incentive to make people “in the world” appear as most unkind as possible in the eyes of their flock, violating outrageously on one hand some basic human rights, and manipulating on a second hand their flock to encourage them to remain without puting a question mark over their spiritual competence, making them swallow their “new lights” gluttonously.
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Markw1509 says:
July 21, 2015 at 1:52 pm
My wife’s parents have been witnesses for over 50 years. They are now invalid and in their 80’s.
They desperately need help and the only help they get is from their daughter, my wife. Also, their local neighbours help them out whenever they need it.
As my wife and I are no longer witnesses, no-one in their congregation helps out at all, not even with visits.
The witnesses are selfish and do not display Christianity in any way. The neighbours, many of which are atheists, cannot do enough for my wife’s parents.
If my in-laws had to rely on witnesses to help them, they would have died of neglect years ago.
Pitiful and shameful!
Thank goodness for the neighbours!
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Grace says:
July 21, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Remember how we were always told that no one else but the Witness have the love that we have as to give up our life for another. What a load of hot air!
Just to show that human kindness is out there, this story proves that one man was willing to put his life on the line for his mate. Julian Wilson, a pro surfer was emotional over not being able to get to Mick Fanning when the shark attacked his board. Scary stuff.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-21/fanning-returns-home-after-shark-attack/6635540
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19 Responses to Get Involved
Faithful Witness says:
October 4, 2013 at 1:26 pm
“Witnesses tend to be suspicious when it comes to accepting literature from others – especially literature that might criticize their beliefs. However, with a degree of tact and sincerity there is every likelihood that a Witness will read a well-worded leaflet if his peers are unaware that he has it, and he already has doubts.”
I’m sure a door knocker will not accept a flyer, since they are with a carload of JW’s. Do you have any ideas for reaching JW’s, besides waiting for them to come to your door? I would love to help people start to reason for themselves, without the aid of the Watchtower publication to “guide” their thought process.
Reply
M says:
October 6, 2013 at 10:39 am
I have a suggestion for your 10 questions for witnesses, relating to the 1914 doctrine. While the quote is powerful, I find it even more powerful to point out that the last days in their chronology originally began in 1799.
Reply
70wksofyrs says:
October 7, 2013 at 9:51 am
Cedars,
Thank you for the time, effort, and money spent helping us with your website. We would truly love to repay you in any way we can.
I will send you an email with our offer of how we are able to get involved.
Thank you
70wks…….
Reply
Nancy says:
October 7, 2013 at 10:42 am
It has been my experience very few people care about exposing unrighteousness. The few people who care become Jehovah’s Witnesses and when they find out the society isn’t so much for exposing unrighteousness as it is for exhalting itself, those few leave. I have made it my occupation to right wrongs, but I haven’t found anyone who cares about what I see. Not one.
I won’t quit though. When I feel it is appropriate to include a link on forum or on my blog I do. But evidence so far points to nobody cares. I realize many people care about their own project. My project is God’s Word and I’m alone. I haven’t met anyone yet who cares about the rightness of God’s Word.
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70wksofyrs says:
October 14, 2013 at 9:33 am
Cedars,
I hope you realise how powerful your work on this site is. My precious girl and I just had a really nice chat. I put pressure on her, but I am so forgivable. Its a rough ride, ups and downs but you have made me laugh on my most stressed days.
You are so funny even when you aren’t trying to be, you do need to lighten up sometimes. We all take things personally if we didn’t we would still be in the WTBTS.
We are going to get involved, spreading the word and getting people to take your survey.
70wks….
Reply
Junebug says:
November 28, 2013 at 6:17 am
After I left the organization, I found a pamphlet on line and printed & copied it. I also typed up a simple letter with the greeting as “Dear Jehovah Witness Friend. I would sign the letter with my initials only. Example:
LJW- Your Ex Jehovah Witness Friend.
I got out the phone book and addressed these letters to those who attended my local KH. I didn’t send them out all at once, but over a period of weeks, months. This was my ministry to them. Who knows how many hearts were reached or doubts that were made.
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Jay says:
March 6, 2014 at 9:19 am
Yes the rightness of goods word is something where I am asking myself, what is the right way to go. I was born in the truce, was never baptised, though. I have God and Jesus in my heart, but I don’t accept the rules of GB. We will see what the time bring us. I have the feeling there are a lot likeminded people, who think the same.
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Mark says:
March 28, 2014 at 11:04 pm
Give me a grenade launcher, I’ll happily aim it at every WT property I come across and I’ll pull the trigger over and over again. If this means going to prison, no problem, I can live with that. This corporation needs to be disposed of. Quickly. I hate them.
Too many years I suffered abuse at their hands. My childhood I would not wish on my worst enemy. Then years later, I lost my son because of this arsehole sect. I was born in (very strict parents) 3rd generation.
The JW’s want their worst ‘terrorist’ nightmare to come true? Yeah bring it on. If I could physically nuke all of their properties, I would plain and simple – I think they’re rotten to the core.
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JenniBenson says:
April 13, 2014 at 11:08 am
hi there. I am so grateful that I have found this site. I live in South Africa, and you will not believe how active the organisation is here. I would like to get involved….publicly. There are very few south Africans that are aware of these sites…I just happened to be bored one day, and was looking up Jehovahs Witnesses on FB to see what would crop up. Imagine my delight when I found support groups for those of us who were left in limbo, cut off from our familys by the watchtower. like most, I still have close family in the organisation. I would really like to start speaking out, and educating people. Please email me, and let me know what needs to be done. you are all doing amazing work!!!
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Kaitlyn says:
May 1, 2014 at 3:50 am
Laundry rooms where they leave all their literature…You can leave some of your own :) Some people print out stickers with jwsurvey.org on them and stick them to the Watchtower and Awakes already there.
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Kaitlyn says:
May 1, 2014 at 3:52 am
^Dangit. I was trying to reply to Faithful Witness…Probly should’ve checked the date before I replied. Lol Now I feel dumb.
Reply
Jerry O Connor says:
August 27, 2014 at 7:41 am
Mark you are a man after my own heart. But the head say`s no to extremism no matter how we would wish to vent our anger even hatred on watchtower. Let me put a scenario to you. Mister Xjw decides to place a bomb at a convention. Hundreds are killed and many more injured. The Brooklyn Dodgers aka the GB would have just what they want. Propaganda on an enormous scale with new captives lining up to join. So it would be counter productive to us and to all who may wish to escape this evil cult. Use the jw tactic, smother with love and truth. This time the love would be unconditional and yes the truth would be just that. I take it that you are a young man Mark,, I am 56 but I well know how you feel An Irish saying goes “A good run is better than a bad stand” So let us keep chipping away at the rotten edifice.
Jerry.
Reply
William Moore says:
November 12, 2014 at 10:15 pm
Hi Cedars,
It’s been 11 years since my disfellowshipping, and I found my voice on the matter about 6 years after the fact. I applaud your site in that it attempts to fight the root of the issue without making people feel you’re steering them in some other weird direction.
I want to start a campaign that follows witnesses to the preaching work and knocks on the same doors directly after the witnesses do. The pamphlet I want to leave would be about the cognitive dissonance caused by the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I then wish to publish video of that act everywhere for witnesses to see.
This seems like the best approach to stifle new growth and will peek the interest of those in their preaching work.
https://www.facebook.com/ExJehovahsWitnesses?ref=hl
Reply
Art Fern says:
March 13, 2015 at 3:51 pm
You may wish to go “ahead” of the WatchTower folks. I get lots of people knocking on my front door, trying to sell me everything from a new dentist to prepaid funerals/ cremation services. It just hit me, the link: both have something to do with filling cavities, Oh well I admit the weird sense of humor. So if I just finished with the JWs and a minute later ringy-dingy, I won’t be happy. Drop off the JW Facts printable pamphlet to help prepare the residents to deal with the WT and ask “interesting” questions. Prior to the yearly convention in Tucson, Arizona, I get dozens of kids and some adults inviting me to attend. I kept and dated the *27 invites I was handed or found jammed under the mat or wedged in the door frame, I had 9 sets of callers from the Tower I did speak with. So imagine if you covered a few neighborhoods just as or before the Witnesses start handing out invites for the 2015 convention. You think there might be a less welcoming response greeting those in Field Service? * I suspect since I was using my real name to comment to Apostanestra sites, some in the congregation were sent to see who I was and if anyone knew me.
Reply
ken brewer says:
December 11, 2014 at 12:18 pm
I agree with this writer,they destroyed my LIFE!While these pricks live in the lap of luxury,are exalted and the red carpet every where they go! This is (EVIL) and where IS the JUSTICE!! MURDER,S , EXTORIONISTS , THEVE,S AND CON ARTIST,S! you took the words right out of my mouth, NUKE EM!!
Reply
It Tech. says:
January 10, 2015 at 11:58 pm
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/watchtower-scandal.php
I would suggest EVERYONE reads the contents of this website. Prepare to have your eyes opened. They have lied from the beginning and destroy letters and evidence constantly.
Reply
Dogila Soft says:
May 4, 2015 at 3:40 am
We (DogiLa Soft) developed a new Android application to help the overseers get the full benefit of “the opportune time” (Eph 5:16).
Among the fine qualities required of overseers is that of being orderly. —1 Tim. 3:2
“Theocratic Timer 2015” is a valuable tool for an overseer who appreciates this quality. It is our desire to help each one to apply 1 Cor. 14:40 with your progressive counsel and to avoid parts that are rushed in or poorly developed.
Share this app and make the App reachable throughout the JW Ministry.
Download link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.robz.theoraticaltimer
Reply
Excelsior! says:
May 4, 2015 at 7:51 am
Dogila Soft,
Why are you advertising your apps on this site, of all places?
You do realise that this is a site that no self respecting Elder would visit, don’t you?
Still, now that you are here, allow me to reccomend some apps that would be of real benefit:
1. An app that contacts child services and the police as soon as any phone call to the legal department at Bethel is contacted about child abuse.
2. An app that can access the original works butchered by the WTBTS in their quotations, with a feature that makes plain their dishonest punctuation and grammar.
3. An app that identifies wife beaters and automatically contacts the police.
I hope that my suggestions are of benefit to you.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Average Joe says:
July 21, 2015 at 3:24 pm
@Excelsior
I’M a self-respecting elder and I’m on here! 😉
Your name reminds me of a Federation ship from Star Trek.
Let me know when you have the App finished!
Yes advertising comments and hate comments on here should really be removed as per guidelines. Job for the admins.
Peace back at you.
Reply
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Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
"Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!": Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
"Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!": Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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← Disfellowshipped but NOT reported: UK pedophile subjected boys to “truly wicked” acts
Under Siege: Watchtower hit with fresh child abuse lawsuit →
“Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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Posted on July 31, 2013
A 2013 District Convention talk ordering Witnesses to shun disfellowshipped relatives has been uploaded to YouTube
A talk by a Watchtower representative urging the shunning of relatives is sending shockwaves through the online JW community.
Recorded at one of the 2013 “God’s Word Is Truth” District Conventions in California, the speaker instructs Witnesses to shun family members, even children, as an act of loyalty.
In his Saturday-afternoon talk entitled “The Truth Brings ‘Not Peace, But a Sword’,” Wallkill Bethel representative Steven Bell laid the blame for the heartache of shunning squarely at the feet of those who are disfellowshipped.
“Resist self-blame,” Bell told an audience of thousands of Witnesses. “We may think that we’re at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Each person has to have a personal relationship with Jehovah. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped, it’s because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.”
Since being uploaded less than 24 hours ago, the video has already received thousands of views and has provoked an angry backlash on JW forums and Facebook groups – especially among those who are currently being shunned.
Video transcript available on this link.
Ironically, even though the above talk openly encourages divisions between families on religious grounds, the official handbill circulated by Jehovah’s Witnesses to promote the convention posed the following question on its front cover…
Bell’s talk, which was based on an outline provided for him by the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body, draws on Christ’s words in Matthew 10:34,35 to suggest that Witnesses should expect their beliefs to cause family divisions.
In using this scripture, the Governing Body are implying that all who are disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose God and Jesus and should therefore be shunned. Failure to shun family members who are former Witnesses is to be considered an act of disloyalty against God.
“What does Jehovah expect out of us, even if the situation is so painful that we have a family member who is disfellowshipped? What does he want?” asks Bell. “Loyalty, that’s what Jehovah wants. Jehovah knows that this is a difficult time in our life, but he wants loyalty.”
Loyalty to the Watch Tower Society is thus to be considered equal to loyalty to God.
Emotional blackmail admitted
Those who oppose Watchtower’s practice of shunning former members point to the fact that it essentially constitutes emotional blackmail. The purpose of disfellowshipping is, they say, not to restore the person’s relationship with God, but to blackmail the person into returning to the organization by holding his family hostage. Interestingly, this is precisely how disfellowshipping is presented in Bell’s talk.
Rather than being aimed at helping the individual, shunning holds a person’s family hostage until they comply with the Society’s wishes
“When someone is disfellowshipped,” explains Bell, “one of the reasons they want to come back into Jehovah’s organization is to associate with the brothers and sisters in the congregation and likely to associate with their family. So if we associate with them when they’re disfellowshipped, we could actually be taking away from them a motivating factor for wanting to be reinstated.”
Bell then attempts to drive his point home with a bizarre hypothetical scenario in which a disfellowshipped person is finally reinstated and promptly criticizes his family for not shunning him fully. Many have already commented on how unlikely this scenario would be.
“Just imagine now if we didn’t remain loyal and we talk to them [the disfellowshipped person] and associate with them,” suggests Bell. “Could you imagine the feeling we would have the night they were reinstated, and they walked up to us and said: ‘Why weren’t you loyal to Jehovah when I was disfellowshipped?’ That would cut us at our heart! But what joy you would have if they walked up and said, ‘Thank you for being loyal to Jehovah! Your example motivated me to return to serve Jehovah!’ Remember, in all cases, being loyal to Jehovah is the most important thing.”
Misrepresentation to the outside world
The recording of the shunning talk was just one of a series of audio files that were made available to JWsurvey.org. Interestingly, an announcement was read out at the start of the convention, which stated: “Any recordings of this program should be for your personal use or for the benefit of those unable to be present. Recordings should not be made available for general circulation, or distribution.”
Anyone who listens to the shunning talk will understand the Society’s concern in wanting to keep a lid on what instructions are given to Witnesses behind closed doors. Like many religious organizations, Watchtower is acutely image conscious, and wants to make sure it can control the facade it presents to the outside world – even if this involves using deception.
A 2011 clipping from the Independent
For example, in 2011 a journalist for the Independent quizzed Watchtower representative Rick Fenton on whether the Society ostracizes (or shuns) so-called apostates. Fenton replied by describing ostracization as a “personal matter for each individual to decide for himself.” Then, in early 2013, another Watchtower representative by the name of Vincent Toole described shunning as a “myth” when questioned by an Australian reporter. (click here for article)
Even the Society’s official website, JW.org, goes to considerable lengths to conceal the extent of its shunning practices. In its FAQ section under the question “Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?” an evasive answer is given that leaves the reader bewildered and none the wiser. The four-paragraph ‘answer’ can be summarized as follows:
◾Paragraph 1: talks about how inactive Witnesses are not shunned, even though the question specifically refers to “former members.”
◾Paragraph 2: ignores the fact that the question is about shunning entirely and discusses the judicial process, mentioning that not everyone who sins is disfellowshipped.
◾Paragraph 3: mentions that family heads are not subject to shunning – one of only two loopholes that is provided (the other being children that are too young to leave home).
◾Paragraph 4: sums up by explaining that disfellowshipped persons are invited to meetings, ignoring the fact that nobody will be allowed to speak to them, including their family members, which is shunning.
But the Society hasn’t just lied about its practice of shunning and shied away from discussing it on its official website. This new YouTube video highlights a quote from a 2009 Awake! magazine that lambasted other religions for causing family divisions, thus implying that those who choose to become Witnesses will never face this predicament.
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” – g7/09 p.29
If only Watchtower could itself live up to the standards it expects from other faiths.
The backlash begins
Predictably, many current and former Witnesses who have seen the video have been saddened and outraged by it. Those who are themselves on the receiving end of shunning have especially expressed their dismay that this is the sort of propaganda their Witness family members are being pummelled with.
Of course, there is nothing unusual in the actual instructions conveyed in the talk. Those who are familiar with the Witness faith know about the extent to which shunning is enforced, and that it is principally intended as emotional blackmail. What makes the talk unusual is the manner in which the speaker brazenly and forcefully spells out that shunning is something Witnesses are compelled to do, even to children, in total contradiction of the image Watchtower seeks to portray to outsiders.
Now the talk is being circulated on YouTube, it is hoped that more non-JWs will be made aware of the enormous pressure Witnesses are under to inflict misery and heartache on their disfellowshipped loved ones – all in the name of “loyalty.”
It is also hoped that Steven Bell, who so passionately and enthusiastically defended the harmful policies of his Governing Body masters, does not rise any higher up the Watchtower leadership chain. If he were to ever become a Governing Body member himself, based on this talk, I shudder to think how further radicalized the organization might become in the future.
Further reading…
◾PDF transcript of Steven Bell’s talk: English | Portuguese
◾JWsurvey articles on shunning
◾JWfacts article on disfellowshipping and shunning
◾An Open Letter to Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Robert Crompton
◾Stephanie Hammond’s blog article “Shunning the Shunners”
◾Patheos.com article
Related videos…
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112 Responses to “Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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Joanna Foreman says:
July 31, 2013 at 5:45 am
If some who are disfellowshipped return to the Organization only to be able to associate with their families, what does that say about the lengths the Society will go to to get members? It reeks of hypocrisy, approved by the WT., when one returns, not for their love of Jehovah God, but for a rather normalcy with family life. The Org. actually suggests this type of blackmail. What type of religious group, who claims to follow Jesus Christ, would even propose such behavior?
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Anthony says:
July 31, 2013 at 5:48 am
Predicted: Watchtower legal will claim copyright on this public talk and have it pulled from YouTube.
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Cedars says:
July 31, 2013 at 6:01 am
Interesting prediction Anthony, that may well happen.
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catmuug says:
July 31, 2013 at 6:11 am
J’ai quitté l’organisation volontairement (54 ans dedans), car dégoutée de leurs fausses révélations et de leur totalitarisme. Je ne le regrette pas du tout malgré que ma famille (que j’ai amené à l’organisation avec d’autres) ne me parle plus du tout. J’ai découvert
que les horribles “gens du monde” avaient en fait un coeur en or beaucoup plus que certains T.J. L’organisation perd beaucoup d’adeptes et devient une bête féroce. Ouvrez vos yeux !
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Johnny Joker says:
July 31, 2013 at 6:23 am
Upload it to some video-streaming sites [vimeo, etc.], from various accounts, and if they remove it, you can quickly change the embedded code in your article. Thus way, they would always just go circles. 😉
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DDD says:
July 31, 2013 at 6:59 am
I swear they make me sick to my stomach! How long can this go on????????
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Thinking Free says:
July 31, 2013 at 7:55 am
The information in this video when questioned by a member of this society, would be defended to the demise of anyone who dares speak out against it. Its unimaginably difficult to sacrifice and entire life of friends family and love – even if it is to escape the clutches of deception.
what about the words in the bible about love …
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evill but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”
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FutureMan says:
July 31, 2013 at 8:00 am
I do believe that it will go on for as long as the flying scroll is operation and it has done it’s job throughout all the religious and political and secular organizations.
Obviously the flying scroll has to work overtime when it comes to the organization of Jehovah’s witnesses, the deceptions and injustices are not quite so obvious to those who were never affiliated with the organization, but they are obvious to those who were once part of the organization and also to some of those who are still part of it.
But honestly this is a very sobering scriptural that a humble man who was standing on the street outside a shopping center once showed to me quite a few years ago now, and I will quote it for you here.
Zechariah 5
1 ¶ And I again lifted up my eyes and looked, and, behold, a flying scroll!
2 And he said to me, What do you see? And I answered, I see a flying scroll; its length is twenty cubits, and its width ten cubits.
3 And he said to me, This is the curse that goes forth over the face of the whole earth. For from now on everyone who steals shall be cut off according to it; and everyone who swears from now on shall be cut off according to it.
4 And I will bring it forth, says Jehovah of Hosts. And it shall go into the house of the thief, and into the house of the one who swears falsely by My name. And it shall remain within his house and shall finish it, and its timber, and its stones.[LITV]
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Joann King says:
July 31, 2013 at 8:26 am
They can do whatever they want to do. They use the same exact mind control tactics utilized by Jim Jones with his Peoples Temple back in the 70’s. If you are unfamiliar with this insidious tragedy, do some research on it. You will be surprised how similar his mind-controlled methods were in keeping his membership, very much like the JW’s. They have my sister and her daughters trapped in that mess, but fortunately for me, my son and all my other family members are not JW’s. They’re shipwrecked on that island by themselves. I’m moving on with my life and my sister being involved with them is not going to make me come back to Hall.
I’m done with this cult,it’s over for me and I have definitely moved on. I have broke the programming and unplugged from the matrix. Sites like this Cedar make it easier for me to see the clarity and rightness in my decision. I have three good friends and I consider these women in my life my new sisters. They accept me for who I’m and show me unconditional love. I sincerely pray that more individuals will able to hold on to their standards and integrity and not give-in to the ruthless, mean spirited, evil machine called the Watchtower and Tract Society. I did not leave God I left a well, oiled man-made machine that has self-righteously imposed itself as a true representative of God.
At the end of the day…all of us are individuals who have to make decisions (sometimes hard, gut-wrenching ones) on how we want to live our OWN individual lives and I can’t compromise my life, goals and dreams because one of my sibling chooses to be involved in a cult. It’s her life…..this one is mine and I’m going to live it with no regrets.
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Whatever says:
July 31, 2013 at 8:30 am
The Watchtower is under fire in Denmark because of these hate speeches. Check out the info here:
www (dot) dr.dk/Nyheder/Andre_sprog/English/2013/07/25/132435.htm
Of course, the Watchtower is saying they are not discriminating and that they are just quoting the Bible:
www (dot) dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2013/07/25/151958.htm
Note the second one is in Danish. Use Google Translate.
Article 266b of the Danish Criminal Code, under which “any person who publicly or with the intention of dissemination to a wide circle of people makes a statement or imparts other information threatening, insulting or degrading a group of persons on account of their race, colour, national or ethnic origin, belief or sexual orientation shall be liable to a fine, simple detention or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years”.
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70wksofyrs says:
July 31, 2013 at 9:11 am
Cedars,
I wasn’t able to watch the whole video…it might be my end…or it could have been sabotage as predicted.
None the less the article and other comments were great!
I would like to point out that Matthew chapter 10 is not even about disfellowshipped ones, it’s about xJews that converted to Christians and trying to convert other Jews and in the household causing divisions when a husband may be interested in the Apostles message and the wife is opposed to the new Christian message. So in my view the scriptures have been used out of context and misapplied.
Also in our Hall there are a few of us Df’d on the back row, and thankfully some of our family members talk to us about “necessary” business as it is a matter of “conscience”…good on them for not being robots, happily I don’t think this talk will make a difference. Having said this though..one Dad has taken a rigid unbalanced stand…and the child on getting reinstated in the future promises never to speak to the Dad again… I think this is really damaging and confusing to young children and grandchildren. It will have a lasting and detrimental effect on this family for good now.
Nice to be back Cedars
70wksofyrs
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Pongo says:
July 31, 2013 at 9:44 am
Interesting that the JW spokesperson failed to mention what qualifies as ‘apostasy’ these days. I suspect that Jesus spent most of his time people who didn’t agree with him, given his role, so that comparison on the part of JWs is worthless. He would have been accused of associating with apostates, therefore of supporting ‘snakes’ and ‘viruses’ under the current regime.
Somehow these guys have to figure out that religious freedom also has limits in modern society. If your system of belief tells you that human sacrifices are required by the faithful to demonstrate loyalty, you do not have the ‘freedom’ to practice that form of religion. I think the same standard should be applied to practices that violate human rights or promote mental harm. You simply do not have the right to harm others because of your belief system.
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John says:
July 31, 2013 at 9:53 am
ok now that I know I can post. I have a son who is in and on the fence but doesn’t talk to me because im DF’ed. He is talking with his sister who is DF and brother who is disassociated. I think in time he will get over the fence and finally get out!! My mom once said that this religion has done nothing but ruin her family. But when you look at these people who stay in, it’s nothing more then mind control as no one is holding a shot gun to their head. But in a sense they are holding a mental shot gun to your head with all that they write and require of you. Since the advent of the internet and the exposing of the hypocrisy of the WTBS and its Governing Body members they have no choice but to really tighten the grips on the remaining loyal ones to not GOD but those 8 Men who self profess to now be the FDS. How much lower or what tactics they will use to further the distance between them and normal people remains to be seen. this video is outright disgusting and has not one sense of True Christian love in it. It is cult type talk with an aim at keeping the relatives who are left in it. To Bad To Bad you WTBS as your ways are being exposed to the masses everyday. Your fall is coming quickly as a thief in a night. And oh don’t worry not one of us so called “Mentally Diseased” people will predict a date as we rely on Gods word the Bible exclusively!!! We see the real Truth and are not False Prophets!
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John says:
July 31, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Just a after thought. I wonder if the Bethel brother who gave the talk has any children and what age is he? No doubt he has no fellow feeling from the deflection in his voice shows. He is Dramatic at best and would not make it as a real actor. The scripture at matthew as previously stated had nothing to do with the WBTS rules on shunning. It is so unbelievably mis quoted in its entire context. The more I hear of the writings that are approved by the FDS the more it tells me they are so so far from perceived reality of real life as it is. Furthermore it has no basis on Jesus own words. As usual mis-quoting and twisting the scriptures to fit their own agenda not Gods. His words should say are we being Loyal to the WTBS period.
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Joanna Foreman says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:01 pm
Oh was that a Bethelite brother? I thought it was Kermit the Frog. My bad.
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JBob says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:18 pm
You’re killing me…. :-) !! Kermit…
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JBob says:
July 31, 2013 at 2:07 pm
Who’s in charge here?
Without waxing Scientology–this is a clear example of how the Watchtower uses our reactions and emotions to control not only those who remain inside its “approved” borders and outside in the disapproved or renounced areas. It’s similar to way a divorced couple can get at each other through their children’s actions or statements, or an ex-significant other abrasively rips their former partner’s emotions by words through friends or actively being seen with someone to evoke envy. You will have feelings about them, or for them, so have an emotional reaction inside (or acted-out).
The simple term is “get over it”, but how? Turning off feelings is not a quickly performed without an awareness of when we’re sensing those emotions arising and coping mechanisms to channel the feelings into something constructive rather than self-destructive.
This is why leaving, or dropping-out, requires a support system–be it a non-JW friend who can bring a balanced view of the situation, or better a licensed therapist who can reflect our feelings and assist in realizing where these moods are deriving. Then, once recognized the individual can take measures to find constructive coping mechanisms and defenses.
For example, the Watchtower’s beliefs and philosophies on shunning is known by those who were in “it” not by those outside. Asking, Do I really need some wet-behind-the-ears Bethelite to tell me this again? and, on grainy YouTube [bootleg cellphone] video to tell me this, again? I think not. Yes, I can use it to convince others that “I’m not crazy”. {like Joann King posted}
But, rather than react emotionally, take it for what it is–further proof of the Watchtower’s total-authority & dominance over individual’s lives rather than nurturing relationships with Jesus and the Father, it is choking the life out of individuals and draining their wallets for its “greater cause”. When continuing to react, one remains under the influence, if not control, of the Watchtower.
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Joanna Foreman says:
July 31, 2013 at 3:59 pm
I truly don’t mind hearing this over and over again, if by posting it on my FaceBook, some of my friends will at least know to stay away from them when come a knockin’. It’s not so much about educating exJWs because we already know what we already know, but there are lots of people out there who haven’t a clue. It’s about making everyone aware of how damaging this cult is.
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Questionall451 says:
July 31, 2013 at 6:53 pm
This has been one of the most serious, sobering, eye opening posts on this site. It totally smacks of jealous control issues. It is a textbook case of damaging persuasive indoctrination. Thanks.
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anonymous says:
July 31, 2013 at 6:59 pm
I was raised as a Jehovahs Witness but faded away when I left home. Love my family dearly but now my elderly father and baby sister have been disfellowshipped recently. I’ve been researching the faith recently, since this happened. I’m familiar with most of it still, but your site and Wikipedia have been an amazing eye opener! This is heart breaking and I hope they will break free since they do not listen to differing / opposing opinions. Thank you for providing the information.
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anonymous says:
July 31, 2013 at 9:49 pm
The talk didn’t mention disassociation at all. I know that the Society thinks it’s the same as disfellowshipping, but it’s still interesting disassociation wasn’t mentioned in the talk. I disassociated myself, but I don’t practice sin, and I never talk about religion with my family who are JWs. Are they still required to shun me?
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Cedars says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:29 am
Anonymous, yes, your family are still required to shun you. There is no difference in that respect between disassociation and disfellowshipping, which is likely why disassociation wasn’t specifically mentioned.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:40 pm
Joanna Foreman,
You are right. it is like fighting an infectious diseases. Much efforts should be directed to those not yet contaminated. An example of HIV/AIDS, “prevention is better than cure”!!
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veronica says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:16 am
Were. U a JW b4?
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Cedars says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:31 am
Is that question for me? If so, I am still a JW now. I am just inactive.
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isabella botticelli says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:54 am
Thanks for sharing the video, Cedars. The fallacies, double-speak, blackmail, and the mandatory misrepresentation of scripture coming from the WT was mind-numbing. So nice to continually exceed our (rather low) expectations of them.
You wouldn’t happen to have a transcript of this talk so we can really tear it to pieces, would you?
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Cedars says:
August 1, 2013 at 2:25 am
Good news Isabella! I’ve produced a transcript of the talk, which is available on this link: http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Transcript-of-2013-Shunning-Talk.pdf
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
August 1, 2013 at 2:52 am
Cedars,
you are “active” not “inactive”! You are really saving many souls though you cannot measure it.
Now, what do you think of the GB quoting Micah 7:5 (which is the same as Matthiew 10:32-38)?
The injustices practiced by the wicked leaders affect all of Judah and Israel. Micah 7:5 notes that a lack of justice has led to a lack of trust between companions, confidential friends, and even marriage mates. Verse 6 indicates that this has led to a state of affairs wherein relatives as close as sons and fathers, daughters and mothers, despise one another. (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w03+8%2F15+p.+20+par.+9)
There JUDGING THEMSELVES??? Don’t you think so!!
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
August 1, 2013 at 2:41 am
What do you think of this? Plagiarism? To give weight to the talk the man says the word’s are Jesus’. Why not Micah’s?
Micah 7:5-6 reads:
Do not put YOUR faith in a companion. Do not put YOUR trust in a confidential friend.+ From her who is lying in your bosom guard the openings of your mouth.+ 6 For a son is despising a father; a daughter is rising up against her mother;+ a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;+ a man’s enemies are the men* of his household.+ (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/33/7)
Matthiew 10:32-38 = Micah 7:5-6. Indeed, Micah 7:6 says “a man’s enemies are the men of his household” and Matthiew 10:36 says the same.
I tend to think that if the talk was based on Micah 7:5-6 it WOULD MEAN LESS and many families would escape this “POISONOUS TALK”!!
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Unbaptized Publisher says:
August 1, 2013 at 3:01 am
Don’t forget how unbaptized publishers that either decides to leave JW or get reproved so they are no longer unbaptized publishers also should be treated just like disfellowshipped ones. This affects children even younger than 7 years.
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JBob says:
August 1, 2013 at 9:10 am
Paranoia runs deep…
Hint, hint, did anyone read the entire article–who is the “voice of Jehovah”? [try to hold your lunch down]
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chuck says:
August 1, 2013 at 9:10 am
You see this is not new, Having been “inside” since 1960’s , shunning was always told to us, try to ignore bro’s or sisters in your own house. Once you became old enough you where kick out of house if you were shunned. Now beening much older and in the disfollowshiped section, I have not spoke to father, mom, 2 sisters for over 15 years. they have not even anything to do with the grandkids (never seen them). This is not an reglion at all, it is an cult, what ever is hand down as the word from head office they will follow blindly no questions asked, kool aid any one?
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JBob says:
August 1, 2013 at 9:22 am
Where the injustice part of this should strike is WHY are persons disfellowshipped? The first answer for most r/f is “you committed a wrongdoing”. Nope. There’s other lighter forms of disciplines that can be applied. D/F is at the discretion of the elder body and maybe some escalations to HQ. So, being d/f is a body of men making a judgement call, NOT any thing to do with JEHOVAH coming down and declaring someone “evil”. These same MEN thus impose their will onto those subservient to follow the orders to ostracize someone of their blood and kin. There’s no room for counseling and assisting someone to grow; the decision to d/f as stated is arbitrary and often capricious. It is not consistent from ruling to ruling in the same congregation, and certainly is not consistent from congregation to congregation, or country to country. Often the inconsistency is justified by “someone wasn’t repentant” or “failed to show remorse”–no one knows because the judicial committee is allegedly a sealed door meeting. We do know that individuals committing the same offense are not meted the same justice or due-process in these “kangaroo courts”.
Thus, to take the bold step of abandoning family or friendships is clearly a cult-like move to isolate “loyal” adherents to the viewpoints of the reigning leaders, and note I said the viewpoints of the leaders not Biblical views.
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KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 1, 2013 at 6:51 pm
There was a time and not very long ago…when I could listen to a talk this long and count the number of scriptures that were cited and read on my fingers and toes and possibly then some but the mere fact that he could orchestrate a full length “Mind Sc***” based on one and only one scripture is a powerful and disturbing statement of the changes that this organization has and is RAPIDLY undergoing!
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isabella botticelli says:
August 1, 2013 at 9:10 pm
OOH, thank you so much!!! (hugs)
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Zeebo says:
August 1, 2013 at 10:41 pm
Hello,
I managed to get my JW wife to watch this (she went to convention) and she is absolutely convinced that this was not said and this whole speech and the ‘human apostate’ speech are made up to make people turn against JWs. Now this is interesting because on one hand she is recognizing how bad these things are, but deals with it by calling it all lies and clever editing. Was this speech given as per the recording or is it an edited montage?
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Cedars says:
August 1, 2013 at 11:31 pm
Zeebo – well done for showing the video to you wife. It doesn’t surprise me that she assumed it was contrived. This is a common “cognitive dissonance” response when JWs are presented with shocking things the organization has produced. Many JWs reacted the same way when they first saw the Sparlock video.
You can assure your wife that I have not edited the video at all other than to remove some of the background noise and make the speaker easier to listen to. If you want me to send you the original audio file of the entire talk, please contact me.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
August 1, 2013 at 10:47 pm
JBob,
You are right. Jehovah has nothing to do with all this. Imagine, you can appeal a decision of a judicial committee (e.g disfellowship). In the Elder’s Manual ‘Shepherding Textbook you will find things like “If the Appeal Committee Agrees With the Judicial Committee (11-15)” at p.106 and “If the Appeal Committee Disagrees With the Judicial Committee” (16-20) p.107.
Where is Jehovah in those stupid arrangements. How can “Jehovah Agrees with Jehovah” or “Jehovah Disagrees with another JEHOVAH”!!!! MAN MADE ORGANIZATION!!
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Zeebo says:
August 2, 2013 at 3:31 am
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I was sure as i found multiple copies on yourtube so cant all be contrived. And i found it very funny when she was saying that they took words and phrases out of context and then edited it. It reminded me of the famous ‘should you believe in the Trinity’ book that takes 3 saints and then completely changes what they said.. one being the father of trinity doctrine lol.
I was wondering why don’t they publish these on the jw.org site??? hmm if its a public talk then surely it should be on there.. I mean if Gods little helpers at bethel want this message preached trough the inhabited earth, why not put this divine message online for the world to see?
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Joann King says:
August 2, 2013 at 4:25 am
They use the word “Jehovah” to substitute for being loyal and pledging allegiance to eight men and a man-made printing company who self-imposed themselves as so-called true representatives of God. They are going hard because they are desperately trying to hold on to every living body they got in those seats.
More and more of their deceptive behavior is being exposed and the child abuse cases are ever mounting. They got to keep the last of the delusional die-hards in a bubble and they can’t have their non-witnesses relatives and dF’ed (now) well-informed relative pulling their coats on what’s really going on.
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Balaam's Rear says:
August 2, 2013 at 9:21 am
“Pay no attention to those eight men, I am the great and powerful Sparlock–er, Jehovah!!!” [rolling thunder (from down under?)]
Isn’t it rather curious that d/f relatives must be shunned, but pedophiles and pederastic elders get shifted from congregation to congregation and no disciplinary action as harsh as d/f-ing?
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Bibelforscher says:
August 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm
In our convention talk in Germany, propaganda campaign against apostates are recognized by public newspaper:
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/augsburg/Taufen-vor-der-Messehalle-id26432911.html?ga=mobil
The talk against apostates was directly before baptize talk. Bad luck 😉
Reply
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 2, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Bibelforscher August 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm
In our convention talk in Germany, propaganda campaign against apostates are recognized by public newspaper:
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/augsburg/Taufen-vor-der-Messehalle-id26432911.html?ga=mobil
The talk against apostates was directly before baptize talk. Bad luck 😉
Sehr Interresant,
Wie ist die allgemeine Stimmung in Deutschland? Um die Zeugen Jehovah’s…
Für mich ist es mehr als zwanzig Jahre, 6 Monate vor die Wende seit Ich in Deutschland geworden war und Ich weiss daß viel geändert hat!
(Es war nie gut vom Anfang!)
Reply
Anonymous says:
August 3, 2013 at 7:48 am
I’m an x-j , and I left by my own decision. Blaming the org is pointless and limits your ability to truly think for yourself. All human social groups use shunning as a method of compliance with the group’s “code”. What religion does it- all do in one form or another. Catholics were far worse but have have acquiesced in order to maintain their flock (aka Revenue Stream) . The failure of the JW’s to grow by any significant measure is largely due to the strict adherence to their code. Foolish from a fiscal perspective. My guess is the leadership is deluded by their own hubris in believing they actually know the “Truth”, or they are happy with the current size of the org and maintaining the status quo is sufficient for their finances and desire for power.
The truth is all organized religions are “false prophets”. To give the JWs even this level of investigation and scrutiny only legitimizes their existence. For those involved, frankly I have no empathy. Their desire for social acceptance outweighs the wisdom of their own thoughts and questions, and therefore they have chosen their path. If they shun you for leavin, then they have chosen their own desires over their love for you. Those that abide by such rules are the ones that give the rules power. Don’t blame the org, blame the people who stick with it- it is fulfilling their needs- and THAT is why they don’t leave and shun those that do.
In essence, It’s no different then being shunned by a group of “worldly” people when you don’t engage in activity they are– like drugs. Try to hang in a group of people doing drugs and be the straight guy.
If you don’t like JWs – leave, and don’t look back
Reply
Cedars says:
August 3, 2013 at 7:54 am
Anonymous – your comment gives new meaning to the phrase “sweeping generalization.”
It is most certainly not true that, “all human social groups use shunning as a method of compliance.”
Though you claim to be an Ex-JW, your parting shot smacks of an apologist, i.e. “if you don’t like it, why not just leave.” There is absolutely no excuse for ANY organization to encourage the shunning of family members, and it is most certainly not the case that shunning is commonplace in all religions or “social groups.” Those like me whose lives are impacted by this and other harsh policies are well within their rights to stand up for themselves and do something to highlight the problem.
Reply
David A says:
August 4, 2013 at 8:38 am
I have been disfellowshiped for 10 years and i am sadden by this hardened view! I remember starting in 1974-1980 a much more merciful attititude was displayed and many came back.This is so so very sad……
Reply
Nancy Tufo says:
August 4, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Wow! I was the only one out of all my family members who became a JW. I wanted to study the bible. I believed that by getting baptized I might get closer to the truth. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for about twenty years. I am not disfellowshipped which is very interesting to me as I am posting my contention all over the internet.
I cannot begin to imagine the mental storm children of Jehovah’s Witnesses have gone through. There are many explanations of scripture that they insist are true that make no sense. The bible is meant to be understood as a whole. But there is mom and dad insisting that what they are teaching their child is God’s Word. Then the child gets baptized to please his parents and to feel welcome as one of the group. He grows up and learns to think on his own and discovers the uncomfortable feeling he had about some things was right. Now what does he do? What if he is not old enough yet to break away?
Then there are mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers who must chose between being true to their own conscience or being true to their offspring. You do know it is not uncommon that when a person leaves for truth of conscious her family members that she leaves, who do not know truth, stay behind, do you not? I cannot imagine being torn like that. Many people stay because they believe family is more important than their own peace of mind.
I am so very happy I did not have to choose AGAIN like I chose when I became a JW. But my family never shunned me even though they all hated what I was doing. And now they are so sweet! Nobody said “I told you so”. They say “Whatever makes you happy!” God bless them!
Reply
Joann King says:
August 9, 2013 at 6:42 am
It’s really criminal what they are doing, and in the end, Karma will come for them.
Yet I know in my bones, I have to move on, I have to take my life back and not worry about my relatives that are still in, they have made their decision and I have made mine and I’m okay with that now. I got to live my life right here, right now and enjoy every moment, or else I have allow this disgusting organization to even rob me of that and they have stolen way too much time from me already, won’t let them take anymore.
Reply
Admin Jeni says:
August 9, 2013 at 9:37 am
The thing that really gets me is that the children are raised with this threat of shunning. They are even trained in the proper method to do it to others. Everything is so black and white. Compormise is seen as a sin. There is no “agree to disagree” with the Watchtower. This hardly seems a good way to raise a child. I was raised this way and still find myself having to overcome being programed not to be empathetic towards others.
If a grown adult wants to ignore another grown adult relative or not, then sadly enough that is their decision. However, children are being encouraged to develop this same mindset and do the same. I even remember being told to shun the unbaptized children of disfellowshipped ones growing up.
The Watchtower may say it’s your choice to associate or not. What they don’t tell the public is that if you do choose deal with DF’d and DA’d ones, others in the congregation will exercise their “choice” and stop associating with YOU.
Reply
george says:
August 10, 2013 at 2:47 am
Hello Cedar, I thought the good people who read your excellent site should know the following:
1. According to the Watchtower’s latest slick film “The Prodigal Returns”‘ ANYONE who doesn’t follow bible teachings, even if they are good people, are bad associations!
2. I was disfellowshipped way back in 1994. I have gone on to live a full life, gaining a good education and creating a life of decency and conscience free of the GB and their pernicious lies.
I live with my mum in the family home. I am in my 40s. My father, who was never a witness, died 2 years ago on the 9.8.11.
Last week, my sister needed to take my mum into town. The only day she was free was the day that a young witness girl and her brother come to clean the house and the windows respectively.
I was already told not to talk to them, which I have followed.
This time, with my mum out of the house, I had to open the door to the young lady. I explained that mum had to go out, and offered the lady the opportunity to leave, or come back another day. She freely decided to continue. I retired to my room and left her to her work.
Later, after I thought she had left, I came downstairs and watched some tv. The young siblings were together, so I just ignored them as they want.
The young lady chose the anniversary of Dad’s death to inform my mum by telephone that she felt “uncomfortable” and will not clean for my mum anymore.
On the same day, the elders called and my mum will be having a shepherding call this afternoon.
I no longer care what the GB et al think of me, but my mum was and is really upset.
What should I do to calm this troubled sea?
Your advice, and that of the other commenters, would be gratefully received.
Best Wishes, George
Reply
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← Disfellowshipped but NOT reported: UK pedophile subjected boys to “truly wicked” acts
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“Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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Posted on July 31, 2013
A 2013 District Convention talk ordering Witnesses to shun disfellowshipped relatives has been uploaded to YouTube
A talk by a Watchtower representative urging the shunning of relatives is sending shockwaves through the online JW community.
Recorded at one of the 2013 “God’s Word Is Truth” District Conventions in California, the speaker instructs Witnesses to shun family members, even children, as an act of loyalty.
In his Saturday-afternoon talk entitled “The Truth Brings ‘Not Peace, But a Sword’,” Wallkill Bethel representative Steven Bell laid the blame for the heartache of shunning squarely at the feet of those who are disfellowshipped.
“Resist self-blame,” Bell told an audience of thousands of Witnesses. “We may think that we’re at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Each person has to have a personal relationship with Jehovah. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped, it’s because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.”
Since being uploaded less than 24 hours ago, the video has already received thousands of views and has provoked an angry backlash on JW forums and Facebook groups – especially among those who are currently being shunned.
Video transcript available on this link.
Ironically, even though the above talk openly encourages divisions between families on religious grounds, the official handbill circulated by Jehovah’s Witnesses to promote the convention posed the following question on its front cover…
Bell’s talk, which was based on an outline provided for him by the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body, draws on Christ’s words in Matthew 10:34,35 to suggest that Witnesses should expect their beliefs to cause family divisions.
In using this scripture, the Governing Body are implying that all who are disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose God and Jesus and should therefore be shunned. Failure to shun family members who are former Witnesses is to be considered an act of disloyalty against God.
“What does Jehovah expect out of us, even if the situation is so painful that we have a family member who is disfellowshipped? What does he want?” asks Bell. “Loyalty, that’s what Jehovah wants. Jehovah knows that this is a difficult time in our life, but he wants loyalty.”
Loyalty to the Watch Tower Society is thus to be considered equal to loyalty to God.
Emotional blackmail admitted
Those who oppose Watchtower’s practice of shunning former members point to the fact that it essentially constitutes emotional blackmail. The purpose of disfellowshipping is, they say, not to restore the person’s relationship with God, but to blackmail the person into returning to the organization by holding his family hostage. Interestingly, this is precisely how disfellowshipping is presented in Bell’s talk.
Rather than being aimed at helping the individual, shunning holds a person’s family hostage until they comply with the Society’s wishes
“When someone is disfellowshipped,” explains Bell, “one of the reasons they want to come back into Jehovah’s organization is to associate with the brothers and sisters in the congregation and likely to associate with their family. So if we associate with them when they’re disfellowshipped, we could actually be taking away from them a motivating factor for wanting to be reinstated.”
Bell then attempts to drive his point home with a bizarre hypothetical scenario in which a disfellowshipped person is finally reinstated and promptly criticizes his family for not shunning him fully. Many have already commented on how unlikely this scenario would be.
“Just imagine now if we didn’t remain loyal and we talk to them [the disfellowshipped person] and associate with them,” suggests Bell. “Could you imagine the feeling we would have the night they were reinstated, and they walked up to us and said: ‘Why weren’t you loyal to Jehovah when I was disfellowshipped?’ That would cut us at our heart! But what joy you would have if they walked up and said, ‘Thank you for being loyal to Jehovah! Your example motivated me to return to serve Jehovah!’ Remember, in all cases, being loyal to Jehovah is the most important thing.”
Misrepresentation to the outside world
The recording of the shunning talk was just one of a series of audio files that were made available to JWsurvey.org. Interestingly, an announcement was read out at the start of the convention, which stated: “Any recordings of this program should be for your personal use or for the benefit of those unable to be present. Recordings should not be made available for general circulation, or distribution.”
Anyone who listens to the shunning talk will understand the Society’s concern in wanting to keep a lid on what instructions are given to Witnesses behind closed doors. Like many religious organizations, Watchtower is acutely image conscious, and wants to make sure it can control the facade it presents to the outside world – even if this involves using deception.
A 2011 clipping from the Independent
For example, in 2011 a journalist for the Independent quizzed Watchtower representative Rick Fenton on whether the Society ostracizes (or shuns) so-called apostates. Fenton replied by describing ostracization as a “personal matter for each individual to decide for himself.” Then, in early 2013, another Watchtower representative by the name of Vincent Toole described shunning as a “myth” when questioned by an Australian reporter. (click here for article)
Even the Society’s official website, JW.org, goes to considerable lengths to conceal the extent of its shunning practices. In its FAQ section under the question “Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?” an evasive answer is given that leaves the reader bewildered and none the wiser. The four-paragraph ‘answer’ can be summarized as follows:
◾Paragraph 1: talks about how inactive Witnesses are not shunned, even though the question specifically refers to “former members.”
◾Paragraph 2: ignores the fact that the question is about shunning entirely and discusses the judicial process, mentioning that not everyone who sins is disfellowshipped.
◾Paragraph 3: mentions that family heads are not subject to shunning – one of only two loopholes that is provided (the other being children that are too young to leave home).
◾Paragraph 4: sums up by explaining that disfellowshipped persons are invited to meetings, ignoring the fact that nobody will be allowed to speak to them, including their family members, which is shunning.
But the Society hasn’t just lied about its practice of shunning and shied away from discussing it on its official website. This new YouTube video highlights a quote from a 2009 Awake! magazine that lambasted other religions for causing family divisions, thus implying that those who choose to become Witnesses will never face this predicament.
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” – g7/09 p.29
If only Watchtower could itself live up to the standards it expects from other faiths.
The backlash begins
Predictably, many current and former Witnesses who have seen the video have been saddened and outraged by it. Those who are themselves on the receiving end of shunning have especially expressed their dismay that this is the sort of propaganda their Witness family members are being pummelled with.
Of course, there is nothing unusual in the actual instructions conveyed in the talk. Those who are familiar with the Witness faith know about the extent to which shunning is enforced, and that it is principally intended as emotional blackmail. What makes the talk unusual is the manner in which the speaker brazenly and forcefully spells out that shunning is something Witnesses are compelled to do, even to children, in total contradiction of the image Watchtower seeks to portray to outsiders.
Now the talk is being circulated on YouTube, it is hoped that more non-JWs will be made aware of the enormous pressure Witnesses are under to inflict misery and heartache on their disfellowshipped loved ones – all in the name of “loyalty.”
It is also hoped that Steven Bell, who so passionately and enthusiastically defended the harmful policies of his Governing Body masters, does not rise any higher up the Watchtower leadership chain. If he were to ever become a Governing Body member himself, based on this talk, I shudder to think how further radicalized the organization might become in the future.
Further reading…
◾PDF transcript of Steven Bell’s talk: English | Portuguese
◾JWsurvey articles on shunning
◾JWfacts article on disfellowshipping and shunning
◾An Open Letter to Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Robert Crompton
◾Stephanie Hammond’s blog article “Shunning the Shunners”
◾Patheos.com article
Related videos…
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112 Responses to “Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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george says:
August 10, 2013 at 4:54 am
Mum is in shepherding call right now! I am concerned about her, this all coming on the anniversary of Dad’s passing. Anyone have any advice on how I should proceed?
On the wider topic, no one ever looks at how Jesus handled talking with people!!
Off hand he spoke with:
Satan, Judas Iscariot, a Samaritan woman, Pontius Pilate, sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors etc
In short, Jesus spoke with everyone! There was no one he wouldn’t talk to!
Surely, as Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses should follow his example above all others and talk to everyone too.
Reply
Cedars says:
August 10, 2013 at 8:41 am
Hello George, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It sounds like you handled the situation perfectly by giving the woman the choice to clean the home with you in it or return another day. Neither you or your Mum can hardly be blamed for any perceived “contact” that followed.
Sadly, there is no rhyme or reason to the way many elders think and act. Some are liberal and avoid getting involved in petty problems, whereas others relish the same as opportunities to impose their authority. Once an authoritarian elder has a bee in his bonnet about something, there can be no stopping him. If I were in your shoes, I would just roll with it.
Perhaps when things quieten down you can remind your mother of what happened and how poorly the situation was handled – particularly coming on the anniversary of your father’s death.
Cedars
Reply
george says:
August 10, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Thank you very much for your good advice. The elders were very kind to mum, apparently, for which I am pleased. They simply reiterated that she is not to discuss “spiritual” things with me.
It is strange to be affected by them after all the time and life experiences I have had. Luckily for me, my Mum is the only one in my family that is a JW. I have genuine pity for those poor souls whose entire family are JWs.
I really appreciate your even handed approach to the whole problem of unaccountable power married with a lack of true understanding. I will continue to rely upon your decency and moral standing to alert me to their latest machinations. With respect and gratitude, george
Reply
TheSkeptic says:
August 10, 2013 at 4:07 pm
I’d like to note that the uncomfortable part from the young “sister” may be due to Victorian etiquette that a single sister would not be alone in the presence of a man–single or married, even with your mother present, if the young lady felt so inclined. However, if she’s stating her discomfort coming to the house with a d/f Witness interaction that’s regrettable. I would also suggest that since you’re doing well in life, you come to your mother’s rescue by scheduling a cleaning service–paid, or other provisions that local charities and government services provide.
One additional note, you mention you abide by the GB’s rule not to talk with Witnesses. Why? If you don’t care about the GB or what their opinion of you, why follow their silly rules regarding shunning? Bear hug them, and walk away, chuckling, when they are aghast and scrambling to run.
Reply
george says:
August 12, 2013 at 5:27 am
That is a fair question. Although I do not care about the GB or the rest, my mother does. I have to bear in mind that if I go round bear hugging JWs, then it’s pretty likely that my mum will be hauled over the coals, or at least be viewed negatively. My mum could not survive without the witnesses. She needs them in her life.
Also, I have no desire to cause others distress. If I were to get in the faces of Witnesses, then I would be accomplishing nothing but reenforcing their negative attitudes. They would not benefit from it.
My stance is right for me. It keeps the witnesses off my mum’s back, and allows the witnesses to hopefully see that an ex witness is not a diner with demons, but an ordinary person.
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 6:11 am
Hello folks, I have just finished looking at the shepherding the flock of god book. It says clearly that staying in touch with disfellowshipped family members will NOT result in disciplinary action if you don’t
1. Discuss spiritual things with them
2. Openly criticise the disfellowshipping.
Of course, your standing in the congregation will be affected.
So there is scope to talk to relatives. Only trouble is, the non elders can’t read this book!
They are trying to cover themselves from any litigation etc.
Reply
Faithful Witness says:
August 28, 2013 at 8:12 am
George,
I wanted to acknowledge the respect and consideration that you are giving your mother and her well-being. You are treating her with kindness and your gentle spirit are pleasing to our King. It sounds like you are handling things well, and it is good to know that you can maintain a relationship with your mother. You are to be commended for respecting her beliefs and recognizing her need for the JW’s in her life. I’m in a similar situation with one of my sisters. However, I am also being called to rescue my parents, who know better.
Keep your mild and humble attitude. Being rude to JW’s, mocking them or purposely confronting them just to cause discomfort, would only prove their teachings to be true. By acting like a decent and forgiving human being, you are proving them wrong! Good work. Thanks for the example!
(From an ordinary, run of the mill apostate, never baptized, but still being shunned by my sister, who is controlled by fear and confusion)
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 6:20 am
The relevant page is 116.
I’m not defending the WTBTS. I know that the elders will come round and really emotionally blackmail anyone who does keep contact.
If you re a brother and want to promoted, forget it! You won’t be in good standing. But they can’t disfellowship you!
I hope this may be of some use and comfort to those facing, as I do, the fact that they are disfellowshipped and have family in the witnesses still.
Cedars, any chance that you could quote the passage as part of your article?
Reply
george says:
August 28, 2013 at 11:45 am
Thanks, faithful witness. I don’t think that the witnesses should be shunning you if you weren’t baptised! Cedars, am I right that only baptised people are shunned by family?
You have my sincere sympathy, faithful witness. I really hope that the work of Cedars and others may bring some positive changes. All the best.
Reply
Cedars says:
August 28, 2013 at 11:48 am
“Cedars, am I right that only baptised people are shunned by family?”
Officially, that’s correct. However, as we all know, anyone can be labelled “bad association” and shunned whether baptized or not.
Reply
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 28, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Cedars August 28, 2013 at 11:48 am
“Cedars, am I right that only baptised people are shunned by family?”
“Officially, that’s correct. However, as we all know, anyone can be labelled “bad association” and shunned whether baptized or not”
I believe you mean “Marking” which is a long standing policy of slander that I never really understood as being official or unofficial but is very real!
As is slander itself whether slander per se, by simply saying “This person is a no good such and such!” Also from the platform in the form of repeated “local needs” or focused warnings etc. Sometimes rather elaborate schemes, violence and the police are involved as a rouse.
Active slander, by involving themselves in the lives and affairs in such a way that it works out that so and so gets arrested and his name appears in the paper, his wife leaves him and just happens…to file a restraining order and the Elders are “forced” to convene” a judicial committee.
Applied slander, No one will sit with this person or talk to them. If anyone does “by accident?” The will overtly get up in view of everyone in a public scene and move to demonstrate the ostracism.
Tacit slander, The Elders and Servants as well as the Congregation at large may all possibly participate knowingly or unwittingly in the above forms of slander regularly and approve of it or any of the many perfected means that the congregations have established over the years….
Reply
Cedars says:
August 28, 2013 at 12:44 pm
Hi Konrad – no I don’t just mean marking. The question was to do with whether non-baptized people can be shunned. Obviously unbaptized members of a congregation are susceptible to neither shunning nor marking, but they can still be classed as “bad association” and given the same treatment.
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KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm
That’s absolutely true and for many years unbaptized people could even suffer the same consequences of disassociation until the late 80’s or early 90’s I believe when the Society changed the policy…simply for choosing to study but not commit!
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Faithful Witness says:
August 29, 2013 at 10:31 am
That was us… Students who never committed. Our bible teacher would actually threaten my husband when they were alone. “Do you want to sentence your entire family to be cut off at Armageddon, or are you going to start making some progress here?”
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george says:
August 29, 2013 at 6:10 am
Thanks, Cedars. Ah, the catch all of “bad associations”. The context shows that it’s people in the congregation, but it is widened or shrunk to fit whichever group they detest and fear.
As I’ve mentioned in a previous post, the new feature film The Prodigal Returns, states in the interview section that anyone who doesn’t follow bible principles is a bad association. They should really be shunning EVERYONE who isn’t a witness!
That would make the preaching work problematic! So it’s ok to be charming and appear concerned to convert others, but woe betide them if they don’t agree or even worse fall away!
The passage in the shepherding book can’t be seen by ordinary publishers. They don’t know that they can get away with contact. However, from what Cedars is saying, they may not be able to disfellowship you, but they can mark you and shun you anyway.
I remember studying the Salem Witch Trials as part of my degree. When the accusations began to fly, there was one case I remember.
A Rich man’s daughter was accused. The father immediately threatened to sue in the secular courts. The charges were dropped.
Maybe it’s time to start suing the WTBTS for mental cruelty from the shunning their ex members receive! Surely there must be some legal redress?
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Faithful Witness says:
August 29, 2013 at 10:29 am
My husband and I were called “open-hearted ones,” when we were studying with the JW’s. When we asked too many questions, and directed our questions at the society itself, that label changed. Suddenly, we were “too educated and full of ourselves to submit” to Jehovah’s (read “The Watchtower’s”) commands. They don’t like independent thinkers.
My brother in law accused us of “turning our backs on Jehovah (again, “Watchtower”), and decided that the correct course of action, was to avoid us. My sister called me and told me she had to protect her children from me, and had a hard time explaining our apostasy and idolatry.
My story is mild, compared to many. I need to write my own blog. Haha. Anyway, it just got worse. Last night, I discovered that my mom is also likely baptized. This is a sad realization for me, since I was thinking there might be hope for her. No true, unconditional love comes from a true Jehovah’s Witness. Sadly, these are the only living grandparents we have for my kids.
I’m so grateful for God’s direction in my life. I was led back to the REAL TRUTH, because of the questions raised by the JW’s.
Thank you, Cedars, for standing on guard and informing us all of the Watchtower happenings. I am following your site with great interest, and have quoted you in conversations with my parents.
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Faithful Witness says:
August 29, 2013 at 10:41 am
I wanted to add, since I’m sure there might be some here, who are going through a lot more pain and anguish than I am over this issue… I have forgiven them. They don’t know better.
I know it might sound condescending, but my brother in law is really just trying to do the right thing. He has earned a new pin on his spiritual lapel, having chosen “Jehovah’s organization” over an apostate family member. I get it. I was bitter for a long time, but I have been washed with a new compassion for him and his situation.
I believe that God is directing this, and he does want me to lead them out of this abusive and controlling religion… But it will not be in my timing. I need reminders to be humble and patient. I don’t have to be right, or win any debates. The evidence and the truth are available to all who seek it. Thank you, God, for showing us the light, before we jumped into the pool.
The July 15 magazine, is going to be the first major prophecy shift that my family has to accommodate. I’m hoping that their eyes will be opened. You can’t build a solid foundation (or tower) on shifting sands. Where in the bible, is there evidence of prophecies that shift? Have any of the WTS predictions come true? Anyone?
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JBob says:
August 29, 2013 at 4:47 pm
FW, your tale of distress is typical; no one can come into direct contact with Witnesses and leave untouched or wounded. You will either assimilate or be annihilated is the world view, thus if choose not to continue with JW’s there’s a label for you depending on their grading sluices for you–unable to grasp the fine truths of the Watchtower, blinded by Satan, sheep, opposed to Jehovah / Watchtower. It has to be done THE WAY of the Watchtower and no deviation, or it is Satanic. Black. White. There is no gray. Those who are not with us are against us.
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JBob says:
August 29, 2013 at 4:29 pm
Based on observations over the years.
The deal with shunning or disciplining of unbaptized individuals is the degree of involvement and recognition by the “outsiders” that a person was/is JW. Persons who studied, maybe attended meetings, etc would still be regarded as candidates for future visits but not invited regularly to social gatherings if they ceased to study because they fall into “worldly association” category. If a person went into field service/ministry work, that person would garner an announcement that they were no longer considered as associated with Witnesses and in some cases shunned if they denounced the doctrines of Witnesses [say, dropped JW’s after reading something on the Internet or decided that their libertine lifestyle was more “fun” than being a staid and frumpy Witness].
If the individual decides after observing the ministry, etc, they fall into the weak category and remain eligible for occasional visits to achieve stimulation into activity/action unless it was inability to cease “conduct unbecoming” behaviors then that person goes to “marked” and association and visits cease. Lighting up a doobie during your last Bible Study with Witnesses, as an example. Or, propping your feet up on your New Age Occult altar.
Children of Witnesses were a different matter and therein lies the reference to the compulsory service video Cedars posted awhile back. At some point, the “older men” of the congregation may decide a certain unbaptized child is no longer fit association and depending on the severity of the “sins” publicly denounce or privately discipline for marking. If the kid was duped into baptism, it can be any of the various forms of discipline from private restrictions to public humiliation and “scarlet letter” shame. The point of all this from congregational and pastoral perspective is “keeping the organization clean” [nevermind the pedophiles], but from a secular view, it’s about control, domination and influence over minds through intimidation.
From child’s perspective, it was always better to string along the congregation until maturity age and one could finally move out and away without “taking a stand” and thus becoming ostracized for not meeting the lofty standards and ideal Witness behaviors expected. Thus, the diatribe from GB to compel parents to force their kids into ministry and ultimately baptism.
Also, JW meeting places can not be categorized as a “welcoming congregation” from the LGBT perspective or any other because the primary purpose of meetings is recruiting and maintaining the indoctrination of those recruited/converted. Yes, there is the greeting of visitors with smiles and handshakes but all for singular goal of recruiting.
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george says:
August 30, 2013 at 9:10 am
Yes, JBob, they are salesmen, with sales men’s smiles. Kind when it suits them, cruel the rest of the time.
Cedars, have any group commissioned a psychological assessment of shunning? There should be some research on this somewhere. Maybe it’s something the AAWA, or whatever their title is could pay for one? Nothing thumps a lie better than accredited, verifiable data!!
There is a famous experiment where blue eyed and brown eyed people are separated and given ruler and ruled status. It doesn’t take too long for the horror to begin.
Keep up the good fight!
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Perico de los palotes says:
September 8, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Sad but truth ! I am dfw. right now and trying to get back into the organization but mainly to get my family and particularly my kids back. I do love Jehovah but I am tired of all of this crap and tirant elders ! I used to be an elder and bethelite, so I do know a lot more than the regular members.
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Faithful Witness says:
September 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm
It is sickening that they are using your family to blackmail you back into the organization. Knowing what you know about them, I’m curious why you would go back. Would it please Jehovah, if you serve them again?
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses have the one true religion? What can you share with us to convince us? I was unable to reach that conclusion.
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JDub says:
September 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm
Speaking of Jehovah, the one true Midianite god, I saw a recent historical documentary on the validity and factual nature of the first series of biblical texts and by extension the factual nature of early Christian viewpoints on whom Jesus would be. It seems the early Christian history is not as “pure” as the Watchtower and other denominations would have us believe. Gospels that were ordered destroyed, yet secretly stashed in caves, tell the tale of a diverse Christian community. It gives the Watchtower an “out” in inventing its ideology and theology, but skewers when it comes to the claim of a single path to God.
On a sidebar note, years prior to the Millerite movement that eventually gave us the wart–Watchtower–a group known as The Harmony Society arrived from Germany (chased out by Lutherans) under the leading intellect of George Rapp. Their belief was that the mass of wars in early 1800’s was a prelude to the end of the world–expected in their lifetimes and before 1844. George Rapp died just a little after 1844, in 1847 if memory serves. The Harmony Society settled into western and middle Pennsylvania creating astounding business and economic success and driving establishment of various railroads to service these industries. Like the counterpart Mormon religion in Upstate New York, the Harmony Society began to migrate westward into The Indiana Territory before reaching its demise (mainly due to its view of celibacy as a virtue and curious difficulty recruiting adherents).
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Minsha says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:10 pm
Better yet, at the convention I attended, it was announced that an audio recording would be made available to each congregation. Perhaps the wife could request to borrow her local congregation’s copy, to hear for herself?
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Minsha says:
September 8, 2013 at 11:14 pm
My comment was intended as a reply to Zeebo… Apparently the iPad browser is not processing the “reply” link properly…
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Perico de los palotes says:
September 22, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Es triste, pero una muy penosa realidad en la organizacion y cruel forma de disciplina que estoy seguro Jehova no aprueba, sobre todo en los que se arrepienten de corazon y aun asi tienen que esperar minimo un ano o mas dependiendo de los ancianos…….porque ese es otro obstaculo para regresar, los ancianos ! Pero si fuistes “amigo” de ellos puedes regresar en solo unos meses…..que ironia !
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Delock Jones says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:21 am
We need another Raymond Franz!
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Rachel says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:28 pm
I am currently going through a living hell right now. I was born and raised witness, every single person in my family except 1 uncle was apart of the church. My 2 sisters and my mother has left. I left the church and was disfellowshipped am now shunned. I left my abusive and cheating husband we have a now 16 year old daughter and he has a 20 year old son who I adopted. I have had my children taken away from me by my family and haven’t been allowed to see them in over 4 years, no photos, no letters, nothing. I lost my entire family. I was told that if I wanted to see my kids and family again I had to come back to the church. After being in the church for 29 years I now see how much of a cult like feel they actually have.
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Cedars says:
October 7, 2013 at 1:14 am
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through such pain Rachel. Please know that there are many in situations similar to yours. I would strongly recommend that you send an email to support@aawa.co – there you should find some comfort and advice.
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Rachel says:
October 11, 2013 at 11:46 am
I just came home from work and someone stopped by and put a folded up Watchtower, out of date as well, in my door with a paragraph marked discussing how parents decisions affect their children. This is harassment and unreal. Leave me alone you already have my children what more do they want.
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Mary Dingel says:
November 8, 2013 at 7:33 pm
Much respect to all who visit here and in particular to Cedars. I have never been a JW. However I have done the studies to the point of decision. Luckily for me, at that time I was about to get married to my childhood sweetheart and I was told to instead find a man in the “Truth”
I was bewildered as they had never met my future Partner, how could they write him off and devalue him so crudely?
Maybe he would have made a great Witness, even become an Elder. Anyway, It caused me to do some research before I made the “leap of faith” and I was “saved”. Most of my family are JW’s including my older and younger Brothers and they baptized my Son and now my Grand Kids.
Luckily, I have learned to be careful what I say so as not to awaken the beast. I have no plan to encourage them to leave the “Truth” but I need to be around to give them the critical loving support if they are ever thrown out of this speeding vehicle. Time is longer than rope as the 144,000 are no more yet I am still here.
It occurred to me as I watched and learned much from exJW’s on Youtube etc; I have been impressed by how patient, loving, even handed, truthful and decent most of them are (particularly in this Blog), could it be that becoming an apostate is finally achieving the “Truth” and being a JW is only a part of the journey? I would be honoured to be regarded as your Sister. Thank you all for the depth of your compassion and humanity.
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Vincent law says:
November 13, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Many jehovah witnesses develop ptsd and particulary post traumatic embiterment dissorder why because they have had there identity stripped away.
They all suffer totalitarian abuse
So many feel hopeless and have low self esteem particulary as they where not allowed to mix with non believers and mainly had little education so mental illness is fourfold to general population when are they going to take resposibility could I take out a lawsuit for emotional abuse……
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steven lemken says:
December 11, 2013 at 8:44 pm
excellent article typical watchtower rhetoric i know i left the jws in 1993 my family wil not speak to me with the exception of my one brother but i am happy to be out of that rotten organization
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tlstatton says:
December 27, 2013 at 5:02 am
I have posted my messages a number of times to let the truth about JW child cruelty from the 1950’s and beyond be told by one who suffered. I cannot express the damage my family, 2 brothers and I, suffered emotionally and mentally from our mother’s Watchtower brainwashing and total mind control. I wish I had the words to express the damage. When mind control and FEAR tactics (demons everywhere and Armageddon destruction) is present then there is no “freedom.” Nor, is there this “big happy loving family of “brothers and sisters” if the Watchtower rules their entirelife like it did when I was a young child.
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aussies says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:17 pm
I could not refrain from commenting. Perfectly written!
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mvs says:
March 6, 2014 at 1:07 pm
I agree – I have family members who have returned to the Organization ONLY because they want to associate with the family NOT because they love Jehovah or the Watchtower; forcing them to live a double life. Why would a religious organization Force people to act hypocritically. I think they are more interested in the watchtower numbers than the real interest or spirituality of the person. (p.s. I have become inactive and slowly fading..)
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Paul March says:
March 6, 2014 at 1:27 pm
I was disfellowshipped in 2002, over a personal problem called depression and accused of not put our hevenly father (Jehovah) first and had to appear before a judicial commite of four elders who were quite aware of my mental health problems, and they off-quoted sciptures to me saying I haven’t trusted God enough, I left that Kingdom Hall that evening feeling really numb and confused and frightened. That talk I have just heard Steven Bell ranting over has made me somewhat annoyed with the WT&BTS.I am now glad I’m no longer with a bunch of false prophets who claim to know what Christian love is all about !!!
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Mark says:
March 29, 2014 at 2:45 am
Similarly here in the United Kingdom disfellowshipping or the act of shunning or to cause harassment or distress to a person based on religious or non-religious grounds is against the law.
There are ways for us to take action although I’m of the firm belief that rather than do this individually, we should all get together en masse and submit a massive complaint to the police and the government on a set date, at a set time, and let the media know of our collective action prior to the event taking place for more exposure.
Further information about this is available on the following links which you might want to copy and paste into a new tab:
Report Hate Crime:
https://www.gov.uk/report-hate-crime
Discrimination: Your rights & types of discrimination: https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights
How you be discriminated against: https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/how-you-can-be-discriminated-against
What you can do:
https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/what-you-can-do
You can report hate crime here:
http://report-it.org.uk/your_police_force
Internet Hate Crime: Offensive Material and the Law:
http://www.report-it.org.uk/reporting_internet_hate_crime
Incidentally, if you find any material on JW.org which you find offensive as a disfellowshipped or disassociated individual and you are currently being shunned completely you might want to contact Amazon.com who host JW.org on their servers.
It is very highly likely that Amazon.com have their own rules about hate speech and discrimination online in their terms of service, so if you find an article or a quote at JW.org particularly offensive to you as an individual, do ensure you complain to Amazon directly as they have the power, if enough complaints are received, to take the official JW.org website offline rendering it temporarily disabled. (Which again could create some great media coverage to highlight the very sad situation many of us find ourselves in, being bullied as we are by the JW’s and the WTBTS for years on end).
Organisations that can help here in the UK if you feel discriminated against on religious grounds:
http://www.report-it.org.uk/organisations_that_can_help
Racist or Religious Hate Crime: What is racist or religious hate crime?:
http://www.report-it.org.uk/racist_or_religious_hate_crime1
“Hate crimes and incidents are any crime or incident which is targeted at a victim because of the offender’s hostility or prejudice against an identifiable group of people.
So any incident or crime which is perceived to be motivated because of a person’s race, ethnicity or religion – either their actual ethnicity/religion or ethnicity/religion as perceived by the offender – will be recorded as such. Hate crimes can be committed against a person or property.
A racist or religious hate crime is: Any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s religion or perceived religion.”
How can I report an incident?
Details on how to report an incident and what you can report is available on the ‘Report a hate crime’ page. You can use a self reporting form or complete the online form on the ‘Reporting online’ page. You may also be able to report incidents through the organisations listed on this website on the ‘Organisations that can help’ page.
By reporting it, you may be able to prevent these incidents from happening to someone else.
Reporting makes a difference…to you, your friends, your community and your life.
How will the Police and CPS treat Racist and Religious Hate Crime?
The Police and other criminal justice agencies consider all hate crime to be very serious, including racist and religious hate crime. When a case is prosecuted, the courts can impose a stronger sentence under powers from the Criminal Justice Act 2003. This reflects the priority placed on these crimes. The Police have performance targets and measures in place to ensure the service they offer is of the highest standard.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) is the organisation that takes cases through the court system. They have produced guidance on Racist and Religious Hate Crime that is available on the ‘Prosecuting hate crimes’ page of this website (opens in new window). – http://www.report-it.org.uk/racist_or_religious_hate_crime1
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Danny Hatfield says:
May 22, 2014 at 8:20 am
A few days ago, as I drove past a neighbor she smiled and waved. As a normal, neighborly gesture I returned the simple wave. I was immediately chastised for doing so because, “You can’t do that! She is disfellowshipped!”
When I was DF’d years ago a “special” talk was given admonishing the congregation that it was improper to even make eye contact at an intersection with “a disfellowshipped person.” Another case a fellow had suffered a severe head injury after being DF’d. After a late night meeting I saw him struggling to walk several miles home, in a driving thunderstorm. When I offered him a safe ride home he refused because, “The elders might see and then both of us will never get back in, because we associated.” It was only a flipping ride I offered. This kind of unkind, judgmental attitude is fostered by the leadership of the organization. And that leadership doesn’t seem to be Jesus.
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Fritz says:
June 14, 2014 at 10:56 am
seems like every few years they crack down on shunning. since the 70’s i remember how my mom would flip flop in relation to my siblings who left the organzation. one year she would talk to them and the next it was taboo again, another couple years and it was ok again. hurts my head thinking about it.
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patricia watson says:
July 10, 2014 at 7:42 am
My now husband and I have been df and it is so funny when they say come to the elders with issues your are having and they will help you so when we went to them they decided that they were going to df us any ways only because I the woman would not disclose to these perverts how and what was done in the bedroom when we did the deed. I mean they asked him di you (CUM) did we have Oral sex and was I on top of Him of not I mean ?WHY do they need to know this they keeo pn saying the viewing porn is a NO NO but wanting to know the details of our encounter is that still not a mental porn image when they go home and remember the details given? Well in short it has not been 4 plus years and they also state that since me the woman is not being humble with the questions asked it might take 20 years before a re-instatement be granted to us so we are coping and we are happy in out marriage and we know that God is not the organization and that he loves you because we have repented of our sin and we know he has forgiven us. Have a blessed day.
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M. Rhodes says:
July 10, 2014 at 2:43 pm
And they contradict themselves because if not shunning someone meant they had no reason to come back, then the hypothetical returnee wouldn’t have returned to ask why he hadn’t been shunned. According to Watchtower reasoning, faithfully shunning (psychologically abusing) a family member is the key to their return to meetings, so Bell’s scenario falls flat.
Great emphasis is placed on loyalty to Jehovah and it is obvious this is a smokescreen for loyalty to Society teachings.
The power-hungry, deluded Governing Body seems to forget that believing in Jesus was the key to salvation, not attending modern-day Dub meetings.
For those who leave and who still believe in Christ, the scriptures tell of a very different outcome.
Jesus did not shun sinners but the harsh religious leaders did.
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Faithful Witness says:
July 11, 2014 at 6:46 am
After years of “studying” with the wonderful friends we met at the Kingdom Hall, my husband and I came to the conclusion that we would never become members of the Organization. We decided to stop lying to them, and we stopped our study, and no longer attended meetings.
My sister came to the opposite conclusion about the “Truth,” and is now a devout JW.
I was cornered (alone, without my husband!) by my brother in law. He accused me of “turning my back on Jehovah.” They have stopped all communication from our family, labelled us as “apostates” and “idolators,” because we decided to go to church and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, over those of the Watchtower.
I have come to realize that when a JW uses the (blasphemous) term, “Jehovah,” he is not really referring to God the Father. Anytime the word “Jehovah” is muttered or spoken in the presence of a JW, his mind has been trained to think “Jehovah’s Organization.” They do not worship God, nor do they follow the teachings of Christ.
I am ashamed and sickened that I actually believed what they told me about Jesus.
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da' says:
August 16, 2014 at 7:10 am
I have four (4) adult children and its obvious to me that even in view of the venom spewed by the gb (no caps for them) regarding associating with d/f or d/a, 3 have still chosen to show respect to me as their mother. That, and only that, would be the inspiration for any return.
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natalie says:
August 20, 2014 at 2:09 am
Hi George – where did you find the shepherding the flock of god book? I would love to show it to a family member who is shunning other family members. It’s causing so much hurt and heartache and would be wonderful to continue to respect each others beliefs and have a loving relationship again. We just want everyone to be talking to each other again. The two are sisters and elderly and its affecting their health. They love each other very much.
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Jared Ian Sumrall says:
September 25, 2014 at 3:24 pm
I believe it ironic that if I were to break the rules of commenting here, which I am not intending, I would be “disfellowshipped” from this message board. Why? Obviously to maintain order over unruliness. We are all governed by rules and our Creator has lovingly provided us warnings to keep us from serious harm. I do not keep company with offensive people. I ask Jehovah to help them the same way He helped me. By maintaining my life as I slowly sank to my own rebellious bottom.
Anyway, long story short: I no longer do the things I used to do because I live by a growing sense of moral obligation to myself and my fellowman. I learn these morals everyday. If someone associated with me back then, it was because they were as sick as I was.
Having said that, I rarely attend meetings although I was reinstated the July before last. I am scared my son will not be accepted because of who I am: a twice-convicted felon. Jehovah helps me along in leaps and bounds, but I will always possess certain traits that make me seemingly strange to others. I believe very strongly in evangelizing, so I won’t expect not to be “disfellowshipped” by the “gb” of this board. I simply have the desire and fortitude to shares my experience in the hopes it may assist those who are weak. In other words, “don’t look at me, look at the judge!”
I most sincerely apologize to those who take offense. I plan on developing my self-honesty, not my self-righteousness. This is an exercise in the expression of my heart among those whom I believe to be capable of offering judgement for the sole purpose of interpersonal growth in Christ. Confess your sins openly to one another type thing.
Fear is not a part of healthy expressions of worship to our Father amongst our fellow Christians. Fear belongs to God. Not you or any other mothers’ sons.
Again, I apologize for the expected reception of this sublimation. But at this finite point in my life, I believe strongly in honest expressions over rigid and self-righteous rhetoric. Just now my eyes have received the gift of a beautiful fire rainbow over the western horizon. Such beauty is only possible by the loving provisions of the One who will one day soon receive my last breath as He gave it.
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Cedars says:
September 25, 2014 at 10:26 pm
Anybody who thinks being blocked from commenting on a website is equivalent to being arbitrarily cut off from his family and long-time friends, potentially for the rest of his life, is either delusional or doesn’t understand what shunning is, or how psychologically devastating it can be. Whatever point you’re trying to make, I and others who are ACTUALLY being shunned by our loved ones at the whim of the Governing Body would appreciate if you could express it in a less obscene and insensitive manner.
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Nancy says:
September 26, 2014 at 3:06 am
Well, I see some similarities shared by shunning and what worldly people do. But the shunning of the loyal Jehovah’s Witnesses does not beat a person to death metaphorically speaking. They just leave you alone. The kind of anti-social behavior of ex-jehovah’s witnesses makes you feel like a lesser person than they are. And what is weird about it is they ALL seem to do it. I think your post was well thought out and from the heart. I appreciate it and you. Never expect any appreciation from former “believers”. It doesn’t exist.
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Cedars says:
September 26, 2014 at 3:10 am
Is this a serious comment, or have I misread it in some way? Did you really suggest that shunning by JW loved ones isn’t devastating, they “just leave you alone?” What if I don’t want to be “left alone” by my father, sister, uncle, other extended family members simply because I no longer share their religious views?
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Nancy says:
September 26, 2014 at 3:48 am
No. I didn’t say that. I said your kind of unfriendliness feels just as bad as shunning to some people. That is what the man said above and I think you received it very poorly. You do. You know?
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Cedars says:
September 26, 2014 at 3:54 am
If you didn’t say that, then what precisely did you mean by “they just leave you alone?” Who precisely is “they?”
As to “unfriendliness” I have news for you that you may not like. I am no longer in a cult that demands that I have compulsory love for everyone I encounter. I am now free to chose who my friends are. I certainly don’t need to embrace people who are stupid and narrow-minded enough to believe that being blocked from interacting with complete strangers on some random website is tantamount to having your family decimated by Watchtower’s immoral, unbiblical and abhorrent shunning policy.
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Nancy says:
September 26, 2014 at 4:04 am
They leave you alone means loyal Jehovah’s Witnesses let you be. I don’t have generations of family members who are Jehovah’s Witnesses are so I can’t know the pain. I DO know the pain of being hated by former Jehovah’s Witnesses which is what the post was about. His post was not about what THEY do. It was about what YOU do. Am I wrong?
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Cedars says:
September 26, 2014 at 4:24 am
So I was right. If “they” are indeed loyal Witnesses, then “they just leave you alone” is an outrageously offensive and insensitive statement for those of us who are being shunned by loyal JW family members. As I mentioned before, I don’t WANT them to “leave me alone” or “let me be.” I want them in my life, irrespective of what they believe. And yes, I would prefer confrontation to silence, an opportunity to exchange views (however blunt or “unfriendly”) to total ostracism. Shunning is a COMPLETELY different matter to being blocked from a random website for ignoring its posting guidelines. That fact that you can’t see that indicates that you are either deluded or incapable of putting yourself in the shoes of others, or perhaps both.
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Nancy says:
September 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm
Well I shouldn’t even try to explain because I see that no one is listening. Shunning means “I want nothing to do with you”. Jehovah’s Witnesses think like that because they BELIEVE God demands it. God. You know? Cedars even says it (I want nothing to so with you who are Jehovah Witness sympathisers) in his own words like most ex JWs on the internet do. Do they not do that? But he goes the extra yard and insults them at every opportunity. OK? Most just IGNORE us. He adds insults. I know what disfellowshipping means. I don’t know how it feels. The bad feelings it causes in some people seems to cause meanness. I have not met a kind ex JWs yet. Have you?
Reply
Faithful Witness says:
September 26, 2014 at 7:27 am
Nancy: I can see what you are saying, and agree that sometimes Cedars’ replies do come across as bitter and condescending. Perhaps you can try to have a little more compassion for his and others’ situations.
He is a new father, and he is separated from his entire family. He does not want to be left alone. He has done nothing to deserve this treatment from his family that he loves, yet he forgives them.
I don’t know if you are a JW, or just an interested person who visits this website.
I’m confused about why you are attacking this website and its guidelines for posting. Being welcomed to comment on jwsurvey, is not the same as being welcomed into the home of a family member that you truly love.
I have never been a JW, but since I studied the religion and chose not to join, my sister has now cut me off from her family. My kids have been cut off from their cousins that they love (young children who did NOT choose to become JW’s, but are forced to go to meetings). Our family has been ripped apart by the controlling policies of the Watchtower Organization.
Our family chose to follow Jesus and what the Bible REALLY does teach: Love and forgiveness. Other members of our family have chosen to serve an organization and make a stand against us.
I do NOT shun my sister. The gifts and cards I send, get returned. I have been instructed NOT to send gifts to her children, at any time (even when I ordered online and had it directly shipped to them).
I can choose if I want to visit this website or any other. If I want to post comments, it makes sense that they would be monitored by the administrator. Comments are allowed and encouraged here. I think the guidelines are reasonable and fair (I myself have been corrected by Cedars in the past).
I appreciate your comments. I am glad that this and other websites exist, so that JW’s, and those who have been affected by them and the Watchtower, can have a place to express their concerns and thoughts.
Are comments allowed by the Watchtower?
If a sincere JW has a concern about something the Watchtower says or does, where can he voice his opinion?
Reply
anonymous says:
September 26, 2014 at 5:29 am
Nancy, are you saying it’s the “former Jehovah’s Witnesses” who are shunning the “loyal Jehovah’s Witnesses?” That makes absolutely no sense to me and I have been one of these JW’s for almost 50 years. Are you familiar with the disfellowshipping policy at all?????
Reply
Nancy says:
September 28, 2014 at 4:42 pm
I am sorry I posted this to the last comment. Disgareeing is not allowed in or out of the JW organization. It’s a bad dream for sure.
Reply
Nancy says:
September 28, 2014 at 4:50 pm
It is not called shunning what the ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses do and they don’t do it to loyal JWs. They do it to other ex-JWs who do not take their side. And I suspect it feels a lot like shunning feels like. We were brothers and sisters. Now we are hated. It doesn’t feel good.
Reply
kez says:
February 12, 2015 at 1:14 pm
The only other religious sect that practices this extreme form of shunning are the Amish, and it’s well documented and recognised. People in general are so ignorant to how as to how insidious and nasty this cult is.
The jehovahs witnesses are viewed as slightly nice but weird people who knock on your door trying to peddle magazines and religion. I could write a book on the nastiness and evil I’ve suffered at the hands of this so called religion. I’m not bitter I’ve moved on and built a happy and successful life for myself and my children. My so called mother has not seen her grandchildren since they were babies, my son is disabled and I could really do with some help and support.
I have offered contact on numerous occasions where she does not have to interact with me in any shape or form.
She is in her second marriage to an elder/delivery man and seems more eager to please him and her so called god. To call themselves christian is a complete joke my mum’s,running round pioneering trying to save the world while her disabled grandson has literally one person to look out for him. If you are thinking of joining the jehovahs witnesses and haven’t been born into it aka brainwashed seek counselling as it will fit a gap in your life or psyche that is missing.
Reply
Grace says:
February 12, 2015 at 1:55 pm
I feel so sad for your situation kez, I can only imagine how heartbreaking this is for you. I can tell that you aren’t feeling sorry for you but for your son & the lack of love that he deserves from his grandparents. He is just an innocent victim in this selfish cult.
The observation that I noticed all of the years I have been with witnesses is that anyone who was in the ‘too hard basket’ was just left to fend for themselves. The ones that did try to help those ones were left to do it on their own, hence burn out. I know from experience.
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“Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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Posted on July 31, 2013
A 2013 District Convention talk ordering Witnesses to shun disfellowshipped relatives has been uploaded to YouTube
A talk by a Watchtower representative urging the shunning of relatives is sending shockwaves through the online JW community.
Recorded at one of the 2013 “God’s Word Is Truth” District Conventions in California, the speaker instructs Witnesses to shun family members, even children, as an act of loyalty.
In his Saturday-afternoon talk entitled “The Truth Brings ‘Not Peace, But a Sword’,” Wallkill Bethel representative Steven Bell laid the blame for the heartache of shunning squarely at the feet of those who are disfellowshipped.
“Resist self-blame,” Bell told an audience of thousands of Witnesses. “We may think that we’re at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Each person has to have a personal relationship with Jehovah. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped, it’s because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.”
Since being uploaded less than 24 hours ago, the video has already received thousands of views and has provoked an angry backlash on JW forums and Facebook groups – especially among those who are currently being shunned.
Video transcript available on this link.
Ironically, even though the above talk openly encourages divisions between families on religious grounds, the official handbill circulated by Jehovah’s Witnesses to promote the convention posed the following question on its front cover…
Bell’s talk, which was based on an outline provided for him by the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body, draws on Christ’s words in Matthew 10:34,35 to suggest that Witnesses should expect their beliefs to cause family divisions.
In using this scripture, the Governing Body are implying that all who are disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose God and Jesus and should therefore be shunned. Failure to shun family members who are former Witnesses is to be considered an act of disloyalty against God.
“What does Jehovah expect out of us, even if the situation is so painful that we have a family member who is disfellowshipped? What does he want?” asks Bell. “Loyalty, that’s what Jehovah wants. Jehovah knows that this is a difficult time in our life, but he wants loyalty.”
Loyalty to the Watch Tower Society is thus to be considered equal to loyalty to God.
Emotional blackmail admitted
Those who oppose Watchtower’s practice of shunning former members point to the fact that it essentially constitutes emotional blackmail. The purpose of disfellowshipping is, they say, not to restore the person’s relationship with God, but to blackmail the person into returning to the organization by holding his family hostage. Interestingly, this is precisely how disfellowshipping is presented in Bell’s talk.
Rather than being aimed at helping the individual, shunning holds a person’s family hostage until they comply with the Society’s wishes
“When someone is disfellowshipped,” explains Bell, “one of the reasons they want to come back into Jehovah’s organization is to associate with the brothers and sisters in the congregation and likely to associate with their family. So if we associate with them when they’re disfellowshipped, we could actually be taking away from them a motivating factor for wanting to be reinstated.”
Bell then attempts to drive his point home with a bizarre hypothetical scenario in which a disfellowshipped person is finally reinstated and promptly criticizes his family for not shunning him fully. Many have already commented on how unlikely this scenario would be.
“Just imagine now if we didn’t remain loyal and we talk to them [the disfellowshipped person] and associate with them,” suggests Bell. “Could you imagine the feeling we would have the night they were reinstated, and they walked up to us and said: ‘Why weren’t you loyal to Jehovah when I was disfellowshipped?’ That would cut us at our heart! But what joy you would have if they walked up and said, ‘Thank you for being loyal to Jehovah! Your example motivated me to return to serve Jehovah!’ Remember, in all cases, being loyal to Jehovah is the most important thing.”
Misrepresentation to the outside world
The recording of the shunning talk was just one of a series of audio files that were made available to JWsurvey.org. Interestingly, an announcement was read out at the start of the convention, which stated: “Any recordings of this program should be for your personal use or for the benefit of those unable to be present. Recordings should not be made available for general circulation, or distribution.”
Anyone who listens to the shunning talk will understand the Society’s concern in wanting to keep a lid on what instructions are given to Witnesses behind closed doors. Like many religious organizations, Watchtower is acutely image conscious, and wants to make sure it can control the facade it presents to the outside world – even if this involves using deception.
A 2011 clipping from the Independent
For example, in 2011 a journalist for the Independent quizzed Watchtower representative Rick Fenton on whether the Society ostracizes (or shuns) so-called apostates. Fenton replied by describing ostracization as a “personal matter for each individual to decide for himself.” Then, in early 2013, another Watchtower representative by the name of Vincent Toole described shunning as a “myth” when questioned by an Australian reporter. (click here for article)
Even the Society’s official website, JW.org, goes to considerable lengths to conceal the extent of its shunning practices. In its FAQ section under the question “Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?” an evasive answer is given that leaves the reader bewildered and none the wiser. The four-paragraph ‘answer’ can be summarized as follows:
◾Paragraph 1: talks about how inactive Witnesses are not shunned, even though the question specifically refers to “former members.”
◾Paragraph 2: ignores the fact that the question is about shunning entirely and discusses the judicial process, mentioning that not everyone who sins is disfellowshipped.
◾Paragraph 3: mentions that family heads are not subject to shunning – one of only two loopholes that is provided (the other being children that are too young to leave home).
◾Paragraph 4: sums up by explaining that disfellowshipped persons are invited to meetings, ignoring the fact that nobody will be allowed to speak to them, including their family members, which is shunning.
But the Society hasn’t just lied about its practice of shunning and shied away from discussing it on its official website. This new YouTube video highlights a quote from a 2009 Awake! magazine that lambasted other religions for causing family divisions, thus implying that those who choose to become Witnesses will never face this predicament.
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” – g7/09 p.29
If only Watchtower could itself live up to the standards it expects from other faiths.
The backlash begins
Predictably, many current and former Witnesses who have seen the video have been saddened and outraged by it. Those who are themselves on the receiving end of shunning have especially expressed their dismay that this is the sort of propaganda their Witness family members are being pummelled with.
Of course, there is nothing unusual in the actual instructions conveyed in the talk. Those who are familiar with the Witness faith know about the extent to which shunning is enforced, and that it is principally intended as emotional blackmail. What makes the talk unusual is the manner in which the speaker brazenly and forcefully spells out that shunning is something Witnesses are compelled to do, even to children, in total contradiction of the image Watchtower seeks to portray to outsiders.
Now the talk is being circulated on YouTube, it is hoped that more non-JWs will be made aware of the enormous pressure Witnesses are under to inflict misery and heartache on their disfellowshipped loved ones – all in the name of “loyalty.”
It is also hoped that Steven Bell, who so passionately and enthusiastically defended the harmful policies of his Governing Body masters, does not rise any higher up the Watchtower leadership chain. If he were to ever become a Governing Body member himself, based on this talk, I shudder to think how further radicalized the organization might become in the future.
Further reading…
◾PDF transcript of Steven Bell’s talk: English | Portuguese
◾JWsurvey articles on shunning
◾JWfacts article on disfellowshipping and shunning
◾An Open Letter to Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Robert Crompton
◾Stephanie Hammond’s blog article “Shunning the Shunners”
◾Patheos.com article
Related videos…
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112 Responses to “Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
← Older Comments
kez says:
February 12, 2015 at 3:01 pm
Thank you for your kind words.I think I’m just feeing frustrated as my son’s behaviour has took a downturn recently and I feel like my mother should be helping but I realise that is just a fantasy. I don’t even associate myself as being an exjw my life has moved on and grown so much beyond that. Most of my friends don’t even know I was raised in it.
It rears it’s ugly head at times though like when my dad got married I got seated next to my jdub brother and his wife (my dad’s not a Jovi) and they pretended that they were really friendly with me whilst keeping my three young nieces from talking to me it was like a sick game my dad’s family kept saying how great me and my brother were getting on ugh if only they knew.
Noone understands unless they’ve been there.
I’m completely emotionally detached from it all I think you have to be for your own sanity and take life on life’s terms., Initially it’s hard that your own flesh and blood would reject you and treat you badly but you have to realise that it’s not you its them.
Make them have ownership of their feelings and flaws and don’t let them project them onto you they are the ones with the faulty thinking and behaviour. You can be and are an amazing person without approval from people who are brainwashed and mind disordered.
Like I said you take life on,life’s terms and and make your own path.I saw the jws round my street the other day and I thanked god literally I’m away from that what a shitty weird life I’m the one who is lucky in a funny way.
Reply
Clara says:
April 15, 2015 at 5:32 pm
JESUS forgive Jehovah witnesses. They do not know what they are doing. Yes witnesses, scripture says that Jesus forgives sins. Thank you Jehovah for calling me out from among them, and not being like them, but being like You.
Filled with love and forgiveness. I bind the demon over the watchtower society. Any human in gods image can see better than the sickness among jws. Please speak the truth, if you know truth.
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Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
"Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!": Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
"Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!": Shocking District Convention talk hits YouTube
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A Glimpse Into the Life of a Child Raised as a Jehovah’s Witness https://richarddawkins.net/2015/07/a-glimpse-into-the-life-of-a-child-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/ … via @Richard Dawkins Foundation
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Thanks to @armathenia for a beautiful piece about the innate kindness of "worldly people"... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-212
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Ex-Believers Accuse Jehovah's Witness Leadership Of Covering Up Sexual Abuse http://www.inquisitr.com/2265651/ex-believers-accuse-jehovahs-witness-leadership-of-covering-up-sexual-abuse/ … via @theinquisitr
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Hemant Mehta @hemantmehta
Enough is Enough: We Can’t Ignore All the Accusations and Cover-Ups and Payouts and Crimes http://tinyurl.com/pf8wew3
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Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
I've just realized I have 1,000 followers! Time to start my cult...
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ISIS are the Nazis of our age. If the Third Reich were somehow reincarnated in the Middle East, it's hard to imagine it being any worse.
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Whoever sent me the awesome cover version of "Good Things, Bad Things," please give me permission to share it!
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Former Jehovah’s Witness Servant Explains How the Organization Fired Him Without Warning http://tinyurl.com/pkzqa6o
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Megan Phelps-Roper @meganphelps
Different organization, similar experiences. @DanielGenser on questioning and then leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses: https://medium.com/keep-learning-keep-growing/what-i-believe-to-be-true-and-how-i-have-come-to-believe-it-13df821c3ed …
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My 10 reasons why I believe Watchtower could be on the verge of imploding... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-21N
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17 Jul
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
A Glimpse Into the Life of a Child Raised as a Jehovah's Witness - http://go.shr.lc/1CKjb7j via @Shareaholic
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Proud to be involved with this billboard project - http://go.shr.lc/1O8t27P via @Shareaholic
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Remembering Karl Towndrow http://www.gofundme.com/karltowndrow?pc=14_tw_2 … via @gofundme
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14 Jul
Guardian G2 @guardiang2
Why Jehovah's Witnesses have given up knocking on doors and taken to the streets. By @harrietsherwood http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/14/jehovahs-witnesses-evangelism-church-god-armageddon …
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Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Thanks to @harrietsherwood for quoting me in this superb, well-rounded piece on #jehovahswitnesses... http://gu.com/p/4a4v6/stw
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14 Jul
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Jehovah’s Witnesses take to streets as busy heathens are rarely home http://gu.com/p/4a4v6/stw
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