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It said in the note that this was a jw
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offlineCacky
It said in the note that this was a jw
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status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I'm not sure if he actually was a bonefide Jehovah's Witness Cathy ... but in several of the news articles about him over the years, more so directly after his trial and imprisonment ... there were sentences like this ....
He also became interested in becoming a Jehovah’s Witness – and could have used this as a cover to earmark homes to burgle while going from door to door at weekends.
HERE is ...... a really good article about Delroy Grant's life of crime. What a nasty, vicious piece of work. It took 17 odd years to finally catch him.
In another article ... it states that Grant became involved with a Jehovah's Witness woman whom he later married ...
When his relationship with Mrs Finlay ended Grant moved back to south London, where he worked in a number of jobs including lorry driver, handy-man and cab driver.
It was around this time he met devoted Jehovah’s Witness Jennifer Edwards.
They married at Lewisham registry office in November 1991 and friends from the Jehovah’s Witness community were delighted with Jennifer’s choice of husband.
Vernal Rochester their best man said he never had any idea Grant was anything other than a devoted husband.
You can read more about him HERE ......
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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There are too many to post!!
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offlineCacky
There are too many to post!!
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Honestly, I'm seeing two stories a day of bad jws in the news. Just saw another one called the Black Widow who was a devout jw who killed her husband and forged his will to give everything to her. I'm seeing, I swear, two a day and I don't always feel like doing the copy, paste thing. I get these news posts off of facebook. I"m on AAWA's page and the ex-jehovah's witnesses page on facebook, where these posts come to me from. It's just unreal how many really bad crimes are committed by jws, compared to the small percentage of the population they make up!
status offlineHumbleLove
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The bad news is there always too much crime. The good news is there is more public awareness by these stories being posted. Many of these articles/stories are bringing up the shunning practices. For many this will deter them from ever
considering to join. I am happy there is more coverage to that effect.
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Big Eyes Movie Article
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offlinejerryjax99
Big Eyes Movie Article
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Hey everyone, I wanted to share this article along with a personal experience with her. http://national.deseretnews.com/article/3089/The-real-life-artist-portrayed-in-Big-Eyes-credits-her-newfound-faith-for-helping-her-take-a-stand.html
I was able to meet Margaret Keane in Pittsburgh, PA at the Corapolis congregation back around 2002 or so. She was traveling with another sister visiting PA and wound up meeting our current PO at the time and he invited her to the congregation to share her story after the service meeting. I was young at the time and thought it was amazing to meet her as I enjoyed the art. She mentioned that at first they all looked sad due to the world's state of affairs (how nothing would ever get better). Then as she learned the JW life they children now had "hope" and they became happy.
Now that I look back on it and even with this movie...those kids will be back to sad or hell even mad due to them having NOTHING to look forward too! image
status offlinewalkaway
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I remember reading an Awake article about her and remember it giving me such a good feeling to read why she stopped painting sad eyes. Now the feeling I have is mad at being duped and sad for all those that are still all duped.
Her big sad eye art was pretty popular way back then, but I don't think so much with out the sad eyes.
I wonder if she'll go back to painting sad eyes again if she ever learns TTATT?
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Margaret Keane was in an abusive relationship with her husband. She then entered into another abusive relationship with a religious organization...see a pattern here?
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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This movie has been done well and is being recieved quite positively. I wonder how much Margarette Keane is profitting from this ( and she deserves to profit from it) and if she's donating any of the profits to Watchtower (who absolutely DON'T deserve any of the profits)?
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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status offlineFiguringitout20
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This movie was recommended to me. Is it any good? Does it preach about JWs?
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My husband mentioned the movie to me the other day after seeing an ad for it. I told him I'd read the story years ago; I forgot it was in an Awake. Not my kind of art, but that's just me.
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Not my kind of art either and I definitely don't want to see it if it's preachy. But if it's well done, maybe worth a see? Just didn't want to bother if it's all about JWs.
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This might be one to wait and rent when it comes out on DVD. That way if you don't like it, you aren't out the price of a theater seat.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I totally forgot about this thread until I saw the YouTube promo for "Big Eyes" the movie. I'm not sure if I'd bother paying for a movie ticket and may wait until it's out on the $8 table later down the track ... or when it's on free to air TV. It will be an interesting story due to what happened to the poor woman. I don't think she's fared any better by getting so heavily involved with the WBTS but perhaps she is one of those people who actually prefers to have guidance for every move in her daily life.
Margaret's story was 'contributed' to the Awake mag in 1975 ...................... you can read it HERE ... if you like
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHumbleLove
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@ whytebyrd I just finished reading the article about Margaret Keane. I would say it's a safe bet to say she probably is donating money to the Watchtower. Of course there is no way to know for sure.
@Andria Thank you for posting the link to the story of Margaret. I am almost caught up reading posts in here...lol. (it's going to take a year to read 1/2 million posts) On to book articles!
@walkaway If she ever learns TTATT perhaps she will paint both sad eyes and happy eyes.
@sq I like your idea of waiting to rent it on DVD, it's cheaper than the price of movie ticket.
@Figuringitout I haven't seen the movie myself. But there are critics who say the movie is good.
@Jerryjax I think that's cool that you got to meet Margaret since you enjoyed the art.
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not sure which Sunday Times, which area - about the JW
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offlinenonjwspouse
not sure which Sunday Times, which area - about the JW
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and not in a positive light,
xJhy6MoPRksx7PmlfXMJ3VsOWU-Wkz8LZi4rOYq8
status offlineHumbleLove
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Thank you for sharing that. I checked my newspaper and then I just realized. I get the Los Angeles Times, not the Sunday Times. I think public awareness about the Jehovah's Witness is a good thing. Someone who is thinking of joining might possible re-think that idea. And someone
who is already in but thinking of leaving....may actually find the strength to leave after reading that.
Last Edited By: HumbleLove Mar 8 15 10:35 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinemaksutov
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This is in the UK - there was an article last week about child sex abuse cases, hence the letters this week. It's about time these cases got some publicity over here! :)
Russ.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Definitely the UK ............................. great to see there is coverage as Russ pointed out!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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Yes, good to see publicity about the shunning, too.
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Jehovah's Witnesses video slammed for threatening kids with death for not paying attention in church
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offlineJoe Magarac
Jehovah's Witnesses video slammed for threatening kids with death for not paying attention in church
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Every so often, the mainstream press notices something.
New York Daily News:
Jehovah's Witnesses video slammed for threatening kids with death for not paying attention in church
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/jehovah-witnesses-video-slammed-threats-kids-article-1.2116873
Video in question at link as well as news story. Poor little Caleb again.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Thanks for adding this Joe ...... it hasn't hit Aussie news services. Yet!
Another insidious mind control method for the WBTS. Cutesie little animated characters ... not as much graphic detail as when I was growing up ... but the message is still the same. Pay attention or else!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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I've seen this on facebook. They sure are trying to brainwash at an early age.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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At least the kids of today have cute little animated characters and not fire breathing monsters ..... as in the elders bellowing from the platform!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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Watchtower had the video removed. It's been taken down from public youtube accounts. They must be embarrassed by it.
status offlineJoe Magarac
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Cacky wrote:
Watchtower had the video removed. It's been taken down from public youtube accounts. They must be embarrassed by it.
In cases like this, sometimes I wonder if they are so out of touch that they really don't know just how objectionable it is until "worldlings" react.
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I think the GB is comepletely out of touch with reality. I mean, they live in their own little carefully shielded world. They don't work at real jobs outside of Bethel. They don't have young children to raise. Have any of them ever had children? The GB doesn't have to deal with growing old in the real world, wondering how you'll manage because you passed up education and a paying career to 'put Jehovah first'. They're boys in a bubble.
status offlineGoingForth
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It is actually hilarious that they took all the videos down!! Don't they want the "good news" to get around all over the world?
But then-n-n-n---how do they feel when the "apostates" are furthering their "good news" on their web-sites!!
I wonder how the GB would react if we had a special place here just for the latest from their Watchtower---along with comments on every question on each paragraph! ?
They should count themselves lucky--I mean "fortunate" that we don't and won't, because it would turn our stomachs inside out if we tried it. Vomiting,
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even touched—
They must be felt with the heart.”
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status offlineCacky
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John Cedars does a pretty good job taking apart many of the talks by the gb and their releases. And Blondie used to take apart each Watchtower study. Don't know if she's still doing that on another forum or not. It would seem such a boring thing to do, so maybe she stopped.
status offlineLocutus
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Great situation , as it appears to me. Through the internet ( which is now a tool of JWorg , and a former tool of Satan..as they had taught in the near past..
Ex/Former jw's, criticizers, and apostates can now post comment on JW publications in real time, and force the GB 'spiritually appointed ones' to take their offensive posts down --- this I assume on advice of their more tech savvy bethel servants.. who are all indentured servants in their employ (free of charge) , and are forced into such service by their jw parents and relatives.
I spent the formative years of my life fully immersed in/to jw culture so I get it. Born a 3/4 th gen, and have much family that is 5/6 th gen now. Still same pattern going on. I assume my nieces are still cleaning toilets at Bethel. Of course they don't talk to me. !
T
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I never did get why 'the sisters' had to do all the cleaning and tidying up of our local hall ..... and 'the brothers' got to play with the sound equipment and run the mics around!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinenonjwspouse
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I'm glad I sent the link to this video to my husband's "raised in but got out before she was baptized " cousin right after it came out on jw.org/youtube. She has been very receptive to the information I send, though I am careful not to send too much. She got out in the 70's but didn't really do a lot of deciphering of the mind control. She did do some. But she is still harboring some of the mindwashing.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Don't you love the internet for information Nonnie!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Mar 5 15 10:02 AM
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I just read through the comments on that news article...usual stuff. But I also noticed how the JW comments who were defending the video made the comments numerous times about how 'wonderful' their kids were compared to all the other kids raised outside of the JW religion and how morally superior their people were in general.
What a bunch of arrogant and deluded people they are! Out of one side of their mouths they brag about how studious their kids are in school but failed to mention that once those good JW kids is offered a scholarship they are taught discard the scholarship and sign a pioneer form rather than getting further education. They claimed there was no back stabbing or violence within their organization...*shakes head*... Obviously got their heads in the sand there. I'm remembering at least two murders in the past few years committed by JW's here in Oregon. But oh wait! JW's who commit murder 'weren't REALLY JW.
They are so insulting and arrogant!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Mar 7 15 5:21 AM
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Oh they are NEVER 'really Jehovah's Witnesses' Sharon! The same was said of the one down here who murdered his wife. The same will be said of the idiot who decided to lace an elder's milk and juice with pesticide. The same will be and HAS been said for many hundreds of naughty little jdubs who do the wrong thing! It'll all come out in the wash. It'll be just like those awful times when you leave a tissue or piece of paper in the pocket of your pants and it's everywhere when you lift the lid of the machine!!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Have we seen this one yet?
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offlineCacky
Have we seen this one yet?
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2993067/Made-sleep-barn-eat-vomit-suffer-vicious-beatings-UK-s-sadistic-mother-never-let-jail-three-children-abused.html
JW foster mother called a monster.
status offlineJourney
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Holy Cow! that is horrifying. I wonder, she must have been mentally ill. Or maybe abused herself as a child. I wonder if she was a life long JW. If it said, I forgot already. They didn't mention a husband.
status offlineHumbleLove
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That foster mother is definitely a monster. The whole thing was so sad for the kids.
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article about the construction, tax exempt, and building ballfields?
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offlinenonjwspouse
article about the construction, tax exempt, and building ballfields?
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I saw this on jwn
http://www.recordonline.com/article/20150307/NEWS/150309486/0/wap&template=wapart
I imagine many of those hotel rooms will eventually be used to house WTBTS visitors after construction is done. ( Who will of course "donate" for the rooms)
Esse quam videri
says it best, this is a post from JWN
" Devine, the Watchtower spokesman, suggested it would be wrong to judge Watchtower by the property taxes it doesn't pay. The group makes huge contributions to the communities where its members live by helping the local economy, he said.
Jehovah’s Witnesses helped the hospitality industry by renting hundreds of hotel rooms to house volunteer construction workers building the world headquarters, Devine said. Those people purchase food and consume local goods.
The construction actactivitycreated 200 to 300 jobs, he said, and the group was hiring buses to transport workers, and buying stone, concrete and steel for the building.
Once the headquarters is complete by the end of 2016, thousands of tourists will come every year and patronize local businesses, he said.
“We have a very large impact on the well-being of the community,” Devine said. “That’s a very tangible way people are being assisted.”
Towns like Warwick and Shawangunk prefer to look at the positive contributions by Watchtower rather than dwell on lost tax revenue.
Warwick Supervisor Mike Sweeton praised Watchtower for helping build two ball fields in the town. He estimated the town saved about $100,000.
Shawangunk Supervisor John Valk said Jehovah’s Witnesses helped the town by building a football field at Galeville Park, a softball field, and two soccer fields. They also did about $100,000 worth of work on the rail trail.
Town Hall’s furniture was donated by Watchtower, and its workers helped demolish Shawangunk’s previous town hall in 2009, Valk said. They wash the new building’s windows and wax the community room floor."
They ...... built a football field, a softball field and two soccer fields....did $100,000 worth of work on a trail...gave the Town Hall furniture...helped demo the previous Town Hall in 2009.... they wash the new Town Hall's windows......they wax the community room floor....??????????????????????????????
I'm sure all those congregations sending their bank accounts to WT will be happy to hear how the money is being used for the worldwide work.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Although it's great they helped support the Rail Trail, a cause I support, a great bulk of JW'S even in the US are struggling families that, as you said, are being asked over and over for donations on this project. And then when you consider the poverty in other parts of the globe...ball parks and rail trails in the US pale into insignificance. JWs won't consider that for the most part. They'll just ooh and ahh over how great they are.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Football field, softball field, soccer fields...REALLY? How about giving some of that WBTS money to community-based organizations, soup kitchens, children's hospitals, cancer research, HIV prevention and treatment, alcohol and substance abuse treatment...etc. So many places to give the money that would make a real difference in people's lives. How about a fund for the r and f who may be in financial trouble? They don't have any plan in place that I have ever known of to help their own people...just take, take, take. The WBTS never even approved of sports activities for their members, anyway. So what gives, and why now? Phonies!!!!!!! Girl hissy fit pullhair
Last Edited By: cangie Mar 9 15 8:48 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinenonjwspouse
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Cangie, I couldn't agree more, the hypocrisy is absurd.
Our Catholic church I go to take in homeless families along with other churches rotating all year , giving them places to sleep, food to eat, helping with any paperwork or other such thing they need, even the congregation kids come to play wit the kids there. They provide all year long for families in need. ( no requirements to be Catholic either)
But the C church does not fund a ball field in the united states where there are other type funding for those type things. This is not third world country like haiti where there are NO resources for this type of thing, not resources for schools to be built or recreational anything for the children to play on. THAT is different. That is charity. The CC do not buy new furniture for a NY county city hall. I am disgusted beyond belief.
The CC FEED THE HOMELESS, GIVE SHELTER, PROVIDE HELP FOR UNWED MOTHERS and babies, HELP the needy WITH UTILITY BILLS, HELP FINDING JOBS, HELP WITH SLIDING SCALE THERAPY SESSIONS, AND THE LIST IS HUGE. sorry caps lock.
status offlinecangie
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"The CC FEED THE HOMELESS, GIVE SHELTER, PROVIDE HELP FOR UNWED MOTHERS and babies, HELP the needy WITH UTILITY BILLS, HELP FINDING JOBS, HELP WITH SLIDING SCALE THERAPY SESSIONS, AND THE LIST IS HUGE. sorry caps lock."
Those are the things I'm talking about, Nonnie... useful, life-changing, sometimes life-saving daily needs. What's the motto of the new, improved JW.org---"build the ball fields and the people will come (to the KH)"? Laughing at you
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I give to the Salvation Army because at least I know they will do some good with it. Never got any good out of donating to the WBTS.
status offlineCacky
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Football and softball fields!! And jw kids cannot play in sports!! As was stated, what hypocracy!!
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more, from Barbara Anderson - Nightline featuring JW March 10
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more, from Barbara Anderson - Nightline featuring JW March 10
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AndersonsInfo
AndersonsInfo 2 hours ago
IMPORTANT NEWS:
Here in the United States, on Wednesday morning, March 11th at 12:35 a.m., EST, barring any ‘Breaking News’ the day before, the program, Nightline, will air as their lead story a 9-minute segment about the Watchtower (Jehovah's Witnesses). The program is 30 minutes long and this segment is only one part of the show.
"ABC News' Nightline is a Late-Night news television program. The half-hour program provides viewers in-depth reporting on the major stories in the news, and airs weeknights from 12:35 a.m. - 1:05 a.m., EST, on the ABC Television Network. Nightline's anchors are Juju Chang, Dan Abrams and Dan Harris."
(For those in Central or Pacific Time, the program is not airing tonight, Monday night. In New York it airs 12:35 Wednesday morning, which is considered the Tuesday night show to those who are Nightline fans.)
Here in Tennessee, we will watch this program March 10, Tuesday night at 11:35 p.m. I have no idea what time this program airs on Tuesday evening on the West Coast.
I would expect that this program will be available to view on the Nightline Website very soon.
Barbara
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Nightline program with segment on JWs has been changed until tomorrow night.
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offlineBarbara Anderson
Nightline program with segment on JWs has been changed until tomorrow night.
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I was at a criminal trial all day in Murfreesboro, TN, involving the notorious JW who I call "Mommy Molester," Angela Montgomery. This is the reason I didn't know until this evening that the Nightline program with the segment on JWs was changed until tomorrow night. (I forgot my phone.) Please pass along the word.
When the trial is over, I'll let you all know the outcome.
Barbara
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Thanks for the heads up, Barbara. Keep up the good work!
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Now it's going to be on Thursday at 11:35 central time, so it will be Friday at 12:35 am eastern time.
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How to run a cult
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offlinehalf banana
How to run a cult
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How to run a cult
First principles: membership = income = privileges for the leadership.
What to look for in new members: primarily people who are easily led, but masochists who are prepared to serve the cause at any cost to themselves will be the best. Docile, child-like qualities are encouraged; most especially in unquestioning obedience, people who are prepared to obey the authority from those who assume authority and never question it. It is the Devil who questions authority.
The cult should avoid having members who are educated or deep thinkers, these two characteristics are dangerous commodities for cults to handle since the appeal of a cult is assertively not intellectual. The appeal lies only in the emotional bonding of a community trapped in a siege mentality. Logic, contrary evidence, and critical reasoning, should be immediately stamped on and branded as coming from the Devil.
What to teach:
Paradise under God’s kingdom is always, yes forever, around the corner and "if you stick with us you will get into it". In fact once you have joined the cult you are not allowed to leave without punishment.This is an important means for keeping the numbers up and therefore the all important income.
You and your family and everyone else will be murdered by our loving, compassionate God at Armageddon if you don’t obey the cult leadership. Absolutely anything which does not originate with the cult organisation is from the Devil.
How to teach it:
Cult leaders should speak to the followers with reference to themselves thus: repeat after me “We are like God” repeat after me “We are like God” repeat after me...............
If it is in the Bible then we will interpret it for you..... do not think for yourself. Thinking for yourself is a trait of the Devil.
The absolutely worst people on Earth by far--- and then some, are those who have decided to leave the cult. They are mentally diseased intimates of the very Devil himself---possibly a bit worse than the Devil. You should never look at, talk to, or even think about these deranged beings since they have magic properties which, by their very sight of you, can turn you into one of them. Be very afraid!
The Bible is the only source of knowledge, it is "sacred" and therefore cannot be wrong, to believe otherwise is from the Devil. We’ll metaphorically smash your head in if you have private opinions on the cult leadership!
This Devil method, by the way, is the red flag which the cult is able to raise at the slightest hint of criticism of its authority. The member is taught there are only two paths; the cult path or the Devils.
The benefits for the followers:
However old you are; joining the cult is like a new life with a new parent! What fun! With a new parent and new brothers and sisters--- all in the same jolly prison together and your new parent promising the prison walls one day will be no more--- and those on the outside who oppose you; all slaughtered. After that; whoopee!---Utopia!
This is the greatly simplified education you will receive as a cult member. The joy of it is that it will never tax your brain. You will probably have a miserable, infantilised, deluded and paranoid existence (I was about to say ’life’ but it’s not a life in a cult--- it’s just an existence) but you will never be able to complain of being over educated!
Last Edited By: half banana Jul 31 13 12:50 AM. Edited 3 times.
status offlineCacky
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You summed it up well.
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To add, I believe the core of the power is the emotional control. Even highly intellectual people can be controlled if they are susceptible to emotional control. That is how the cognitive dissonance is achieved. They KNOW better intellectually, but their emotions will control the rationality.
That is why this mind control religion is so very dangerous. It preys on emotion so very well. Once they have that controlled, there is nothing intellectual that would free the mind. Scary stuff.
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When you add that with how the political system protects them...talk about double duty.
Punkie, Randie and the others...we could use some input, having been there and done that from a different angle. Ah, heck, maybe it's time for us re-reading from others too. And remember for being grateful they are published.
When we think of how many tried helping the rest of us for hopefully not making the same mistakes..I find it interesting how many others
[sometimes our family] that still support such hate because of Jehovah. Apparently HE is the one and only true God and to hell with the rest of us.
I'm going to use Cali's expression of, "Good Fucking Lord."
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@half bannana I thought you summed up "how to run a cult" very well.
I found your statement where you said joining the cult is like a new life with a new parent.
This could be a definite attraction for someone to join who has lost their parents. I don't think this is what you had in mind when you wrote that, but it got me thinking for some who convert later in life....that could be a reason why.
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Grief is often a foot in the door for the jdubs Humbley ................ how could a deeply upset person just mourning the loss of a loved one and not thinking straight because of it ...... NOT want to know more about 'did you know you can see your mum again?' Sick really.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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That's very true, when someone is mourning they want to see that person again.
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GB Moron Anthony Morris III Claims The Gays Made Tight Jeans To Turn You Gay
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offlineSwingLifeAway
GB Moron Anthony Morris III Claims The Gays Made Tight Jeans To Turn You Gay
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Nov 11 14 7:00 AM
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Unreal. Taking you live, to "Deep Inside the Crazy!"
A member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has warned of the perils of tight trousers designed by homosexuals.
Anthony Morris III, a senior member of the Church’s leadership, said: “For these young fellas, cause the older ones aren’t doing much of it thankfully, is the metrosexual look we’ve addressed that in the past.
“What’s happened now is that it’s really caught on more – the tight suit jacket and the tight pants. Better known as tight pants. They are tight all the way down to the ankles. It’s not appropriate. It’s not sound of mind.”
“The homosexuals that are designing these clothes – they’d like you in tight pants.”
He also warned women against spanx, saying: “Some of our sisters, what it is are these spanx… these skin tight stuff they wear, when they exercise, they leave their home and they’re jogging in this stuff."
“Look at the verse. Is that appropriate to wear skin tight spanx or whatever they call it?"
“It’s not modest and it’s certainly not sound of mind. It’s really not appropriate."
“There’s really nothing else to say about it. Now you want to be in your home or your room and wear that stuff that’s your business."
“But don’t go out like that and say you worship the true God.”
Watch the clip below:
Couldn't we all use more angry old White men in our lives telling us what to wear? Obviously we should be none too surprised by this, JW's have reactionarily bucked against every fashion trend I've seen, in my 25 year life.
Hoping someone can explain to me the context of this nonsense. Was this at the annual meeting? Did rank and file hear these ridiculous comments?
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Nov 11 14 7:28 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlineCacky
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I believe it was a record branch visit meeting that was shown to all congs in the US. He also spoke about those who are having problems and can't get out in the field service. He said that some will say, Jehovah understands. He said, What Jehovah are they talking about? He really put on the guilt trip, making them think that no matter their circumstances, if they aren't out preaching, they will go down at Armageddon. Very unloving. It will surely turn some away from the org. But for many others, it will just add to the depression and guilt and fear. He's a real jerk.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Yeah, I heard he also guilted those that take family vacations to a 'certain theme park' but haven't taken the trip to visit Bethel. Both take advance planning and money but which would make jehoover happy
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
status offlinecangie
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He also made reference to women wearing "Spanx" (panty girdle undergarment), and by the context it was clear that he did not have a clue what he was talking about, so I hope that he lost credibility with the women at least. Please...don't make "edicts from heaven", speak them in front of a large crowd and have it recorded on video unless you do your homework...or it makes you look like an idiot! Laughing at you And what was so funny as to require constant laughter from the brainless audience?
Last Edited By: cangie Nov 11 14 10:08 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Oh right, they do those simulcasted sermons now.
Last time I saw my sister I'm pretty sure she had just viewed this because she was talking about the branch and how this guy 'got right to the point,' 'it was great,' etc.
I was pretty sure this is what she was talking about... now I am even more sure... and with the added info from you two about what else was discussed it's now even more horrifying. She buys into the fear hook line and sinker.
My sister is almost 22 years old and graduates college in the spring.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineSailAway
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Yup, truly a moron! Spanx are not the same thing as spandex. This guy is off the reservation! Laughing at you
Thing is he starts out his mean-spirited diatribe by telling the audience that if they don't like what he says, they should take it up with Jehovah while waving a WT around, saying he is going to reference the WT literature and scripture, but then he spouts his own judgmental, misogynistic, homophobic personal opinions! If there was a god, I don't think he/she would ask some crazy old dude to speak for him/her.
The rank and file will eat it up and become even more judgmental towards their "brothers and sisters". Unfortunately, he is paving the way for shunning of inactive (hence, "blood guilty") family members by the fully indoctrinated.
You are right SwingLifeAway Dave:
Unreal. Taking you live, to "Deep Inside the Crazy!"
Last Edited By: SailAway Nov 11 14 1:25 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinehalf banana
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I notice Anthony Morris 3rd is nick-named Tony the Turd on JW Net, of course on Ex JW Forum we would never sink to such disreputable name calling!! But what a fool? And this guy is clearly a leading light in that darkness they call the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses!
Why doesn’t Big J like tight pants? Who said he doesn’t? He does! It the gb who don’t.
They fear tight pants; they fear that the youth will desert them for the sake of fashion because fashionable clothing is all about what hormonal youth want to wear to attract a partner. Without mating, the species will not survive! Better still the mating instinct trumps religion any day and may all young JWs be entirely persuaded by their good instincts to find a partner and ignore the fascist rhetoric of Tony the Turd.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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OMG! OMG ! OMG !
Hey, I'm 63 years of age and find their speech anything but loving. I'm not 'fashionable" and find some of what are youth wear to not always be appropriate for when they need doing business - I'm also not qualified to tell them much of anything considering my past. All I would say, fads come and go but when you have any religion speaking such hate...I'm done!
Throughout my years of getting older - modesty does matter but then you must remember I'm one of the old farts that don't preach religion and would hope my grandchildren at least learn a sense of modesty just because it still matters in society.
It's still important for presenting yourself as someone that is clean and is there for helping. It's not about god - it's about self-respect.
I don't appreciate how "Tony the Turd" presented the message - being they have separated themselves for so long from the world...they are hardly qualified for telling anyone anything. And that's what pisses me off.
The other day, after her visit with the JW re: Anthony Morris...damn, I'm to sickened to continue this conversation.
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Wait,i wear skinnyish jeans, and im gay... oh my god there plan worked!!!!!!!!! Lol
As someone that had to go to that meeting, i can say it was boring and selfcongradulating. Until tony went up, and even though hes an idiot for guilt tripping families for going to the happiest place on earth instead of the beigest. At least it was entertaining, and i mean that in a very masochistic way. Even my mother who is totally indoctrinated rolled her eyes a few times, which i take as a good sign since i was facepalming about every minute.
And i like that nickname tony the turd. I always just thought of him as the jw version of pat robertson.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Kefka- I don't remember your story but when you mentioned "you had to go to church"...are you someone still living at home and perhaps because of your age, you are not finding the freedom from the religion because you are still dependent upon the help from parents?
I don't give a hoot whether or not someone is gay/lesbian. I do care however if and when the WTBTS protects pedophiles! We have homosexual friends that would never touch our children in an abusive way...and should they do such, the same rules apply to them as it does any known pedophile that hides behind religion. There is no forgiveness, there is no mercy...it's simply take care of business so they cannot harm another child.
Life is an interesting adventure. I'm glad you continue posting and help me understand things. Take Care and be of good cheerbeach party Love, Lin and John
status offlineKefka6
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Hey Linda I don't have a particularly interesting story, found out I was gay at fourteen, decided eternal celibacy wasn't for me so I decided I would leave when I was financially independent.it wasn't until last year that I found TTATT. Now I'm out to my friends outside the org and my mother (who did not take it well). And with any luck if my "cousin" doesn't back out I'll be able to move into an apartment in a couple of months and never go to another meeting again. :)
status offlinepunkofnice
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....and none of it will appear in the dublications so AM the turd can say the WBT$ didn't say it if taken to task. I'm glad this idiot is saying these things as I hope it wakes many JWs up to what weirdos are in control of the cult.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineBilly Sugger
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Rumour has it that Tight Pants Tony has been disfellowshipped. Not been absolutely confirmed yet, but John Ceders posted on Facebook about him.
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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I would venture to guess that Tony has not been laid in decades.
Leaked - Tight Pants Tony's workout outfit leaves little to the imagination.
Z9Ehz9I.jpg
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
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I take it this would be a no-no then ? smiley: tongue
jeggings (trapez) Tags: blue jeans leggings bulge thight jeggings
oh........and this is another case of language differences over the pond...............over here tight 'pants' would be more like this.............
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxAgfYhTrsMnkwOOk1dI1
so I could see why our Tony thinks they are unsuitable for field service .............although I beg to disagree smiley: smokin
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
Last Edited By: solitaire Nov 12 14 8:39 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlinecangie
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Naughty, naughty Solitaire..........Kewl Pics Discipline
status offlineKBG
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Kefka6 wrote:
Wait,i wear skinnyish jeans, and im gay... oh my god there plan worked!!!!!!!!! Lol
....
Kef, because your are gay...hmm... or, maybe because you CAN! Selective scripture chooser like the GB frequently cannot.
status offlineKBG
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solitaire wrote:
I take it this would be a no-no then ? smiley: tongue
.....
Yes, Sam, totally inappropriate. Have him remove those tight pants immediately, then post a pic proving it has been done, lest I notify the elders.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Tight jeans? Nope. Tight jeans were around in the 70's ...... the man is a knob-spank. They are skinny jeans or skinny pants ... not tight! Honestly ... you'd think he'd know that!!! haha
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinepunkofnice
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Billy Sugger wrote:
Rumour has it that Tight Pants Tony has been disfellowshipped. Not been absolutely confirmed yet, but John Ceders posted on Facebook about him.
Hmmmmm. sounds highly unlikely methinks. Any one know what was posted about this?
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Well, I'll be waiting for an update.
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GB Moron Anthony Morris III Claims The Gays Made Tight Jeans To Turn You Gay
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status offlinecangie
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punkofnice wrote:
Billy Sugger wrote:
Rumour has it that Tight Pants Tony has been disfellowshipped. Not been absolutely confirmed yet, but John Ceders posted on Facebook about him.
Hmmmmm. sounds highly unlikely methinks. Any one know what was posted about this?I read John Cedars' blog...and while he didn't actually say "disfellowshipped", he did infer that it would be interesting if TM3 were "stripped of his lofty position.... because his outspokenness is making him a liability to the organization." He also said that he hoped that wouldn't happen, because he would like to see this behavior cause the organization to "implode", and went on to cite several ridiculous made-up things that Tight Pants Tony has blathered on about as though it were the "Word of God."
Last Edited By: cangie Nov 13 14 7:02 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Right - to be clear - that is purely speculation on Cedar's part
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineCacky
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I thought Cedars said it turns out to be not true.
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Wow, that is too good! I am gay and I like my tight pants...despite me having a belly but hey. I have seen plenty of brothers wearing tight suit pants and have nothing said about it. Spanx being bad for sisters too....WOW! Plenty of sisters wore them out in the ministry in lieu of pantyhose. He needs to be introduced to the female designers who design men's tight pants.
status offlineBilly Sugger
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This is the post that John Ceders put up on facebook....it seems it may not be true as there hasn't been any shockwaves which we would have heard of, but you never know.
John Cedars Ok, this stays in the pending tray but for the time being I'm treating it with a pinch of salt. I think it's crossed wires. If you guys go to the group "Uscire dai Testimoni di Geova: ferite profonde del loro ostracismo!" you will see a thread has been started claiming that Anthony Morris has been disfellowshipped. One of the group members notified me about the thread, telling me that evidence would be forthcoming. However, having waited a while, and observed the chatter on the group, I think it's highly likely the guy who started the thread has read my latest article on Tony and maybe misunderstood it. So for the time being, it ain't true - but if you guys could keep your ears to the ground and let me know if you hear anything, I would appreciate it!
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
status offlineBilly Sugger
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Oh yeah,just found the posts above......any way, it caused a ripple.....
and back to the tight pants..........
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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I wonder how younger JW's who peruse the internet feel about the way their religion is mocked by the masses.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
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What about if a woman wears tight pants? Now I know it was frowned upon for women to have pants on full stop ..... well long pants as opposed to knickers ....... but I have in my younger days worn tight pants and I can't remember being interested in having a same sex relationship. Perhaps my pants were not tight enough? Haha!
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SwingLifeAway wrote:
I wonder how younger JW's who peruse the internet feel about the way their religion is mocked by the masses.
I dare say a fair few of them would be pretty angry and frustrated at what they're reading Dave ...... and of course they'd be saying it's a sign the world is closer to its end because of the 'persecution' they're experiencing at the hands of a random bookface comment or three! Thankfully ... there would also be some who would be embarrassed to be part of a religion that is always knocked and perhaps they will go that next step and start researching things.
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status offlinewingnut
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1278422611prince_packagensfw1.jpg
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There is that point too Wingnut!!!! Can't say it's my kind of fashion!
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status offlineBilly Sugger
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here's some sisters preparing to go out on field service, they are just about to read the daily text together......
image
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
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cangie wrote:
punkofnice wrote:
Billy Sugger wrote:
Rumour has it that Tight Pants Tony has been disfellowshipped. Not been absolutely confirmed yet, but John Ceders posted on Facebook about him.
Hmmmmm. sounds highly unlikely methinks. Any one know what was posted about this?I read John Cedars' blog...and while he didn't actually say "disfellowshipped", he did infer that it would be interesting if TM3 were "stripped of his lofty position.... because his outspokenness is making him a liability to the organization." He also said that he hoped that wouldn't happen, because he would like to see this behavior cause the organization to "implode", and went on to cite several ridiculous made-up things that Tight Pants Tony has blathered on about as though it were the "Word of God."
I would have thought AM3rd is probably a bully so the other popes will cowtow to the twat. He is no more being DF'd than I am flying to the moon. I hope the GB come out with more stupidity like this. Not only is it entertaining but it should be a red flag to JWs still trapped in the cult.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Goodness me BillyAndyAndy'sFoundSluttyGirlsInTightPants .................... they're not Kim Kardashian's love children are they?
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Check this out for 'tight'!
google painted on jeans!
I couldn't get the pic up from my Ipad
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Billy Sugger wrote:
here's some sisters preparing to go out on field service, they are just about to read the daily text together......
image
Whoa................there's the sound of Billy running to find his ministry bag smiley: smokin
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status offlineJoe Magarac
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What I said about this in another thread:
There are some other religions where tight pants would be a no-no,
but are there any other religions where it would be a gay conspiracy?
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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I'm just surfing ... trying to find some humor with all the insanity of having been raised in a cult.
Hey, my husband at age 68 still looks good in jeans...tight fitting as they may be around his belly, his ass still looks good with wrinkles. Because he is still my "sexy thing" and we love each other. Hell, he remembers when my boobies were on my chest and not my stomachsmiley: frown.
People such as AM...while preaching 'morals' that promote hate; although his elk doesn't give any of us credit for having morals since we don't belong to his church - simply kiss my arse and I'd hope to never hear what a sick moral person you were; unless you're willing to hone up to how you were before "Finding Jehovah" that is now going to save everyone.
I'm not sure that in all of my years of research how many of the Governing Body actually admitted they helped create the monster. And for those that did help expose the truth about The Truth, they would be demonized.
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A favourite quote of mine from Dr Who is: Give a monkey control of its environment it will fill the world with bananas.
Just what the GB are doing!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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You know Punkie, they would fill the world with bananas..forgetting others like apples, oranges and other things.
I'm struggling at the moment for how to deal with fence-rider but I've been given a lot of good advice. It's not easy because I'm not going to play by her rules of conduct.
She went to a special meeting, listening to AM...and of course she comes home with all the advise any of us need for being modest. I'm simply tired of the JW spin and how they want to control the world.
She was rather shocked that I had read about AM...and I tell her all the time about you precious people that aren't judging someone for not being a JW and we try keeping informed.
I know it's difficult for her but she needs IMO, get over judging how others live their life when it conflicts with her belief.
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GB Moron Anthony Morris III Claims The Gays Made Tight Jeans To Turn You Gay
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status offlineauth
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This just in:
Your jeans can make you gay but your genes can't.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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auth wrote:
This just in:
Your jeans can make you gay but your genes can't.
woohoo
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineauth
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No! This is a breakthrough discovery!
Fresh from the lab at "Awake university".
It was only announced after rigorous testing,
That was wrongly reported as child molesting.
So when you hear Dr. Morris say,
Your trouser's caress will make you gay,
This was likely already known quite well,
By many young men at Bethel.
I hope this preview made you drool.
You'll learn all this at theocratic school.
Others ask for theses we accept bull-faeces.
A course in bunk, you'll never flunk.
There's only one academic crime,
Don't use your mind a single time.
Or we'll kick you out of our sight,
Faster than you can say "New Light"!
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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OMG Auth ... I cannot believe you managed to rhyme something with 'child molesting'! Well done you Bow down before you
Love the poem!!!! bow down
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineKefka6
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@ auth that was beautiful. Bravo
status offlineauth
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LOL, thanks guys!
I was just in the mood for a little satirical GB bashing.
They give us so much ammunition by saying so much nonsense.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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They provide us with hours of entertainment! Decades!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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auth, that was priceless! Laughed so hard I was crying and my hubby asked what was so funny. He got a good laugh from it too. Two thumbs up!
status offlineauth
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lol thanks sg.
Ugh: went to edit something and accidentally deleted post. Ah well.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
Last Edited By: auth Jan 24 15 5:46 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlinejaymetal
What i'm not understanding is ... #50 [-]
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Something interesting and no one even bothered to touch on it is how this Anthony dude makes reference to 'THE' homosexuals and making reference to THE homosexuals as having designed tight pants. From my understanding there is a lot of heterosexual men and women involved in the world of fashion and one would think everyone has a voice in the reality of design. I might be way off base, but how did he get this information directly that THE homosexuals were directly involved in spreading tight pants? If anyone has any information on the creation of tight pants like name dropping and whether or not it really was THE homosexuals that had part in the lavish creation, i'd like to know. I am not a Witness, but i have been known to go to a meeting here and there and never once have i heard such ignorance as the day this creep opened his mouth. Not all witnesses conduct themselves in the manner as this jerk. It's his opinion and he can express such, but there are more dignified ways of relating that information without making yourself sound like a real ass jack.
Last Edited By: jaymetal Feb 2 15 6:41 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineauth
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Yeah, not all JWs are that crazy and some are not even very devout. Others have one foot out.
But the sad thing about it, jaymetal, is the status that this idiot holds within the religion.
He's one of the governing body which means he's almost like one of a few 'popes'.
JWs believe that only 144000 of them (the "anointed") go to heaven.
The rest will live on earth and be ruled by those guys once this world is destroyed and they inherit their heavenly thrones. All governing body members are "anointed".
In addition the governing body is now considered to be the "Faith and Discreet Slave" who Jesus, who's ruling in heaven, has already put in charge to lead JWs until the world ends.
If you openly dispute doctrine communicated by the governing body you can be labeled an 'apostate' and disfellowshipped and shunned even by Jehovah Witness family members.
So he's "out there" but he's a leader and all witnesses are supposed to respect him and the position he holds.
If he was just a crazy random JW it wouldn't be so shocking.
But these guys play a role in making the rules all JWs have to follow.
Devout witnesses will take his opinion very seriously.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinecangie
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"but how did he get this information directly that THE homosexuals were directly involved in spreading tight pants?"
In answer to your question, jay, it seems as though even when he does not know something as a fact---he makes it up! Perhaps he thinks that the definition of "fact" is: "If I say it is true, than it absolutely is." smiley: laugh
Welcome to the board, and if you like, stick around and continue to have fun with us smiley: wink
status offlinesg75
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Hi, jaymetal. Nice to have you here. Most JWs that I know are nowhere near as creepy and nuts as Tony. Unfortunately, his status as a GB member gives every word out of his mouth weight in the JW mind. They're conditioned to just accept whatever a GB member says as true, no matter how illogical, bigoted, or just plain silly the statement is. I like cangie's explanation and I get the sneaky suspicion she's probably right!
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there Jaymetal and welcome ........
One of the things I noticed when growing up a-la-jdub-style ... is the amount of times the word 'the' is used in the jdub language! It's 'the truth' ... 'the end of this wicket system' ... 'the worldly people' ................ then there's 'the friends'. Not my friends. Not our friends. Not even his or her friends. But 'the' friends. Or as my mum used to say ... 'I saw one of THE friends today ....'. Lots of the the the phrasing!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Ha.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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I did watch that prank call and thought it was at least a pretty cool thing that cedars 'got in'. He didn't expect that so of course didn't maybe say all the brilliant things he or the rest of us might think should have been said.
Nonetheless....he got through and at least got to tell Tony Morris that he's facilitating the exit of a lot of folks from the JW religion AND....that Tony Morris is Delusional
Nice to see you posting Varg!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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Good for Cedars! He's a hero in my book. Kind of amazed he was even able to get through.
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Yeah, that's got to be driving the gb crazy, trying to figure out who is leaking and passing out info to "apostates." lol
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Oprah should do a show
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offlineCacky
Oprah should do a show
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Oprah, Dateline or someone ought to do a show having (disguised) witnesses who are staying in only because they'd lose everything in their life if they admitted they didn't believe it for a second. I think people in general would be shocked if they knew what people would lose and go through just for saying, "You know, I just really can't buy into this anymore." My siblings and I all left our Catholic religion and that had no effect on our family life. One went back, two went elsewhere and one doesn't practice any kind of religion. But we didnt' lose our family or old friends.
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Hi Cacky, Oprah has dad witnesses on her show in the past. One such is Paul Blizard. I cant find the clip at the moment. This link shows him with Oprah.
status offlineEddie
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I forgot the link
http://www.geocities.com/paulblizard/bio.html
status offlinesolitaire
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Brilliant idea Cacky..............although they would have to make sure the disguises were really good..............
I know in the past I have seen people supposedly 'in disguise' - and have thought that if I had known the person, I am sure that I could have recognised them...........
Just to hear people telling the truth about the backlash of leaving - which the JW's totally deny of course - would be wonderful!!
status offlinematitalica
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Not just for the shunning thing, but also for the willingness to die for the sake of blood, killing young ones because of the blood issue....make that f...ing awake magazine a book of the month club pick for her audience.
But you just gave me an idea....Nancy Grace on CNN is a hardball ex lawyer who does her show's mostly on the abuse of children, and/or abductions, murders etc. of children. I think we might have a better chance of her doing something like this more than Oprah, (lots of witnesses watch oprah, she might loose some audience if she did what your suggesting)....But Nancy Grace?I'm sending her a email right after this....
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/
This is the email I just sent her;
Hello, I would like to commend you on your quest for justice for children. However there is one population of children that I feel you haven't addressed but that you can, that is children of Jehovah's Witnesses. Briefly you may be aware that JW children are trained to refuse blood transfusions, or blood components should their life need it. The JW's have even printed a publication, the Awake magazine in which one whole monthly article was honoring the hundreds of children who already died because they refused blood transfusions, and setting an example of hundreds more dying in the future. This is a passionate subject for me as I also refused a blood transfusion when I was 14 years old...but long story short, I got one and lived to tell about it...but I was also shunned by the majority of people in my church at the time because of getting a blood transfusion.
The second topic I would like to raise with you is that like the catholic church....JW's have a no tell policy when it comes to pedophiles, many pedophiles have been protected by the Watchtower organization so as to not bring reproach upon the religion. Sadly molestation victims or rape victims must have a 2nd witness to the crime in order for their claims to be substantiated. And if they do not have a witness to the crime, quite often the perpatrator isn't investigated and the victim is punished for trying to spread lies about someone else in the congregation.
I do hope you give this email some pondering, I was raised a JW and can testify on how dangerous and down right evil this religion can be to children, and if I can help just parent see the harm they are doing to their child, then my work is successful.
Thank you,
Matt Schell
Last Edited By: matitalica Sep 7 09 4:34 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Best of luck with your attempt at exposure.....but I dunno....maybe they are not that weird compared to other cults. I know that sounds strange, but on Dr. Phil for example, (an offshoot of Oprah's show), he has done stories on cults that make the JW's seem almost normal.
In Australia a couple of years ago, a well-respected investigative current affairs program ran an expose for two weeks on the 'silent lambs' issue. I haven't heard anything since. I guess some people just consider them yet another church with child molestation problems. But I bet the door-knockers hear about it from time to time.
Winesses are very good at rebuffing things. They are legalistic in their outlook and framework. And they are not a poor religion. Also, one of America's founding principles was that of freedom of religion.
At the end of the day, TV is about ratings. Can people get fired up about JW's? Mostly the people who have had something to do with them. Most other people probably couldn't really give a shit. Best of luck though.image
status offlineHumbleLove
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I am catching up on the posts.
Cacky...I thought your idea is a good one. Yes, the general public would definitely be shocked to find out that leaving the JW religion isn't easy. I do think
there needs to be general awarenes. I, myself have become much more aware. But, I know it's only because it's become a personal thing.
I do think there would be less people joining at a later age.....if there was more awareness of what happens when you join.
Davidbru does bring up an interesting point about Tv being about ratings. But, I think a good show will bring ratings. And I do think that would be a good thing.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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It would be good seeing more exposure to just how the JW can get away with their evil - but then we must remember they have power and money for hiding their dirty deeds; although some television programs think they are helping expose such evil. And at some level they do.
Humble Love, IMO, the general public doesn't give a shit. Until it effects them personally, it's not their problem.
I think it's a nice thing that certain television programs show this or that - and hopefully someone watching will find somewhere to find support - those programs are still a part of the media that is just a story for the moment and then they move on towards something else - and it's not about the abuse suffered from the WTBTS and children.
This is why we have sites such as this; knowing how many members would speak out in the legal system because IMO, you really cannot depend upon the media for keeping up with religious abuse because they are busy talking about other things that are important.
Give kudos to those that do on occasion speak out on their television program...but IMO, it still comes down to many of us that do the deed for helping expose them.
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I noticed my post on her is from 2009. I thought I had been out since I was 52. But in 09 I was 50. So I've been out longer than I thought!
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Linda, I agree the general public for the most part doesn't care. I still think more exposure would be a good thing. things change with the general public,
because they are exposed to things. I saw this commercial on t.v. the other day that showed someone doing a good deed for someone....who then in turn
did a good deed for someone else....who did a good deed for someone else. Imagine if enough people watched that commercial and then decided
what a good idea.........and started acting on that good idea. Be a very nice neighborhood to live in.
I think religious abuse is an important topic that needs to be discussed more in the media. The abuse from the standpoint that people are afraid to
leave. In the news we hear about Armageddon, pedophiles, murderers.......but how often is the fear of leaving brought up? I think that Cacky's idea
of having a show where it shows that is an imortant thing.
Cacky....I guess my resurrecting this thread showed you good news. You have been out longer than you thought !! That's good !
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status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Humble - I think you realize that many of us work with different organizations that would helpfully bring some kindness to those that have suffered from the religious abuse due to the WTBTS.
You found us because you know we are here for helping...and it takes time. That's why it's important for anyone with sincerity, come back. Hopefully you know we aren't always so serious - we have our fun times too.
My contention with the media...they will, thankfully, talk about this or that; end of subject. We are doing the research for them...it's a money game for them - it's our life.
Last Edited By: Linda Mar 21 15 5:59 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineHumbleLove
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Yes, I think the work that many of the members in here do is very good. I landed here because this site is pretty active still. Some of the sites I found before this one weren't very active or completely inactive. There is this one ex-JW chat room that I hang out in that's extremely inactive but I hang out in there anyway because every now and again people do go in there. One of the times I walked in there I saw messages from somone who said, "I want to leave JW, Does anybody out there know of any jobs? " and some other stuff as well but no one was in the chat room at the time.
I just hope that person found answers somewhere else and didn't give up.
Yes, I know things are not always serious in here all the time. There has been plenty of humor amidst the threads to try and help the person who is upset at the time....have a chuckle!
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The Rapture....really
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offlineinspecterD
The Rapture....really
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I was reading comments on an Ex-JW forum that said that now "they now believe in a Rapture-esque ending to the anointed ".
I haven't heard this before. Can anyone else substantiate this new teaching. Guess I have been out of the loop for too long. smiley: roll
status offlineJoe Magarac
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Without using the word "rapture", this is one of the things Pastor Russell said was going to happen in 1914.
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I think the use of the word 'rapture' has been avoided in the past as it sounds too evangelical-like Dee. As Joe pointed out ... old Charlie made all kinds of predictions for himself and his followers.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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I kinda figured it was too good to be true. I'm always hoping for something so outrageous that a sane person just can't ignore it and plod along doing meetings and service. My middle son just keeps on going. I keep hoping he comes to my door with a confused look upon his face asking for help with leaving the borg. I know, I know....I'm just dreaming.
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Inspector I have been reading and reading and I think there are a lot of things that are so outrageous that a sane person wouldn't ignore. I am never giving up. I think with enough patience and the right questions...the right conversations...I think eventually anyone can see the light. I hope that happens with your middle son one day, that he does come to you with the confused look upon his face. I hope your dream comes true one day.
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Don't give up hope, Inspector. Your son may still come around. I still hope someday my own JW family will wake up. Just keep planting those seeds and maybe someday, something will bloom.
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Dee ... you and I are no longer part of that cult and neither are most of the other members in here ..... so there IS hope yet!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Just a small thought of mine.
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Just a small thought of mine.
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JWs talk a lot about doing "everything in moderation" when they are trying to justify something they want to eat, drink, do, or say, right? So why do they show no moderation in how they view their religion? They are totally enveloped in it and are fanatical about it. I see no moderation in that.
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That's a very good thought Papillon. I plan to ask that the next time I am chatting with a JW. They definitely don't do their religion in "moderation," it's an all or nothing view with them.
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So why do they show no moderation in how they view their religion?
Michele, a JW would simply quote you these following bibble verses in defense of no moderation while serving God (KJV ):
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Love-the-Lord-With-All-Your-Heart/
- And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.
- Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
- And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
- And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
- Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
- But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
status offlineauth
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Birdwoman's post got me thinking...
I've been trying to understand my increasingly negative reaction to some sections of the Bible.
It borders on disgust sometimes. Considering that this is a book I used to read humbly on a weekly basis that's quite a change.
I suspect that one reason is the fact that I've broken away from the Christian dogma that people are fundamentally imperfect, sinful, and guilty by default.
Since the Bible is essentially a treatise on human worthlessness it now conflicts with my personal values and is therefore repulsive.
Another possible reason is that I now see Biblical theocracy is essentially totalitarian. YHVH is as fatherly as 1984's big brother is brotherly.
It represents the psychotechnological machinery for totalitarian rule before we had the computer technology to render "god's" surveillance obsolete.
The decline of Christianity's official role in society probably corresponds with the diminished need for its conjugal duties in the process of empire-building.
IMO, the new brand of totalitarian regimes of the 20th century sometimes clashed with religion because religion then represented unwanted competition for absolute loyalty.
Michelle,
Officially, they show no moderation (because as Birdwoman pointed out they're not supposed to) but unofficially I think many Jws are moderate.
I had JW relatives who'd never miss their 'soap-operas' despite the admonition from the magazines that good little JWs shouldn't watch them.
Yes it's hypocritial but you'd have to be a robot to live by every little stipulation of the religion.
If they still believe in the religion that has the wonderful side effect of creating a burden of guilt to confirm that they're sinners and need the religion.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinepunkofnice
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The moderation area is the area that would give the WBT$ a better reputation. If the JWs don't spend on things then the GB get the money (they hope). The area where they go all out are areas where the GB benefit financially. With this cult...............follow the money!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Eerily Familiar Propaganda
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offlineSailAway
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http://imgur.com/a/7LY2R
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
status offlinejerryjax99
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Heh, seems like a few Paradise pics with all fake happy faces.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Kim Jong-UN must have the same artists as Watchtower! This kind of stuff is like having an alternate reality existing alongside ours but visible! Crazy.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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"CCTV Tower With Bountiful Harvest" .............. even the names are eerily familiar. Maybe Kimmy is a long lost rellie of the WBTS' Charlie!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineJoe Magarac
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There's a cultural thing here.
In the old Soviet era Russian propaganda the workers all look grim and determined, whereas in the Chinese and N Korean stuff everybody is insanely happy.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Propaganda images share similar features.
Here are a couple from the Stalin era in Russia.
Look familiar?
a591671ab7025f3ead89b2e9e683f550d5e98597
c5f26f31d2b810e05a8377a04db81319d94d6288
There's a cultural thing here.
In the old Soviet era Russian propaganda the workers all look grim and determined, whereas in the Chinese and N Korean stuff everybody is insanely happy.
Joe, the images I posted above come from the old Soviet era, and "everybody is insanely happy" in them.
Do you have any examples of images, that originate from Russia during the period you say, that show "the workers all grim and determined"?
Or is it Western propaganda images that show grim Russians as a cultural stereotype of Russian people under communism?
status onlineSpiralblue
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Sailaway, that is really a find. SO similar to all those (horrible) pictures we all grew up with where everyone is carrying flowers, fruit, and a silly smile on their face everywhere they go, gazing up adoringly at the sun/god/leader image. Women working in dresses too, that used to make me laugh.
Birdwoman, I think I know what Joe means, I remember seeing pics depicting the stern Soviet soldier or workman (with big muscles, guns, etc.) so I was surprised to see happy faces and flowers around Stalin.
Same thing all around though, visual propaganda for the cult minded. When I was in school I used to be embarrassed by the magazines and never took them to school to "share". I knew I would be mocked because of how the illustrations looked.
Om........
status offlineGoingForth
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@ Andria:
"Maybe Kimmy is a long lost rellie of the WBTS' Charlie!"
Love your humour! smiley: roll
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even touched—
They must be felt with the heart.”
Helen Keller
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I guess we can't have highly loved political men without having propaganda featuring them as the supreme happy daddy of their own countrymen and countrywomen. Insanely happy is an apt description.
Glad you like my humour GF ...... in my house my three men say that I'm the one who was holding the door open to the humour room when it was being handed out! They say that because I don't like Monty Python ... or Archer ... or Monty Python AND Archer!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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I don't have any links but have you seen their publications? Exactly the same as JW books.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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That's creepily familiar, Dianne. Photoshop Stalin out and put Jesus or one of the GB in and those would be readymade Watchtowel pics.
status offlineJoe Magarac
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Something like this maybe?
image
And even in the ones you posted, the happiness may be unrealistic under the circumstances but they don't look on the verge of hysteria as in the North Korean and Watchtower examples.
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And even in the ones you posted, the happiness may be unrealistic under the circumstances but they don't look on the verge of hysteria as in the North Korean and Watchtower examples.
True enough, Joe.
Russians are stern faced people - we have to be, it is our legacy - the stern face hides the inherited pain of our bloody history.
It is what keeps us from crying.
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http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2008/11/137_34882.html
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Why bother giving God a name?
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offlinehalf banana
Why bother giving God a name?
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Why bother giving God a name?
Only JWs seem obsessed with giving their particular God a name...What advantage is there for this I wonder?
Here’s an interesting critique from a Finnish woman:
If there are a group of men outside and I shout out “husband!” instead of my spouse’s name maybe half of them turn around, assuming they are all married thinking my voice sounds like their wives’ but they quickly turn back around after realizing I am not her. The rest never turned around because my voice was too different. Only my husband will come over and be like “What’s up wifey? May I make you a sandwich?” The Skeptiboy is a sweetheart, isn’t he? After rewriting the metaphor calling him by name no longer seems important because he knows me, just like God, or Jehovah, knows me. Let’s look at it closely and I will now show you why this metaphor is entirely inappropriate and not apt for the situation. The real situation is that my husband, representing God here once again, is alone outside. There is no one else there. No other married men and I can call him whatever the sap I want to because there can be no one else to answer and just like God he will say “Yes?” and ask me what I want. The part that disturbs me is that having to use God’s name assumes that there are other gods that could mistake me calling for them or that God won’t know that I am talking to Him. (from The Lazy Skeptic by skeptigirl blog spot)
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineauth
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The part that disturbs me is that having to use God’s name assumes that there are other gods that could mistake me calling for them or that God won’t know that I am talking to Him.
That's it, I think. There have always been multiple gods. Even the Bible mentions some of them.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinehalf banana
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It’s a good point isn’t it? If there is only one God why bother with a name. God's uniqueness is the very reason that other churches have dropped calling God by name.
JWs must realise there is an advantage in promoting Big J as a sort of selling point for the religion...but if they knew that Yahweh was called Yahweh to distinguish him from other Gods, then for JWs the principle of polytheism must still apply today.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
Last Edited By: half banana Sep 1 14 12:24 PM. Edited 2 times.
status offlinepunkofnice
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It gives the JWs another excuse to feel exclusive and special to have the name Jehovah(tm) concocted for them.
In any case if he's supposed to be the Father of all, I never called my Father by his name.
....I could go on about how the name was given to varied geezers in the Bible but I'll stop right here!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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Yes JWs think they have a winner in using God’s name and let the world know that they hold the copyright but I recommend ”keep calling on Jehovah” and by doing so you are supporting polytheism......great!
Long live the Pantheon. The more gods the merrier! (Except, come to think of it; Jehovah who looks like a vengeful thug who claims that he will lovingly murder those who use their god-given intelligence to steer clear of such rubbish).
Oh! The contradictions...religion is full of contradictions... much better "to believe" in factual things!
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineJoe Magarac
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It's not as if it were a JW peculiarity for God to have a name.
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Nope, they're not alone but most Christians don't.
When children have one father you usually won't call him by name. That's the bit of irony.
For belief systems with multiple gods the use of names is necessary.
*tears of clothes and reveals reflective aposta-suit*
Psalms 82:1
A psalm of Asaph. God has taken His place in the divine assembly; He judges among the gods:
6&7
I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.
However, you will die like men and fall like any other ruler.
Hmmm....so god assembled all the other gods and told them they're going to perish.
That sounds almost like Jehovah staged a coup and killed all the other gods.
If that's the case then God would come to imply Jehovah(tm) and there would be less need to say 'Jehovah God'.
In a sense the JWs recall an era when Jehovah(tm) was still in the midst of his fight against the gods.
They're behind the times lol.
[The above is a bit tongue-in-cheek but hopefully the point is obvious]
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
Last Edited By: auth Aug 30 14 11:24 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinehalf banana
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Auth, where can I buy one of these reflective *aposta suits*? I presume "new light" just bounces off?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
Last Edited By: half banana Aug 31 14 1:12 AM. Edited 1 times.
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half banana wrote:
Auth, where can I buy one of these reflective *aposta suits*? I presume "new light" just bounces off?
Yeah it bounces the "new light back" as a powerful laser that penetrates even the thickest standard-issue governing-body mind-control armoured helmet.
Unfortunately, the helmet is self-healing so the hole closes right back up in a few seconds.
Once I work our how to counter that technology aposta-suits will be available for free everywhere. smiley: roll
Nonetheless, there's a certain superhero who's proactively put even the incomplete model to good use:
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinehalf banana
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Well if it’s good enough for Apostagirl, it’s good enough for me!
She has a direct way getting her message across doesn’t she? But I’m not so sure that it is the most tactful approach ... I think I’ll reserve her method just for the governing body.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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Yeah. She doesn't mince words or withhold fist lol.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineMarked for life
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The use of the name Jehovah for the Christian god is not exclusive to JWs. At least not anymore. They do obsess over it, though. I think it's part of the cult seperation tactic that they use to feel they have priveleged info.
It's really ALL nonsense anyway. It's a very immature religious viewpoint. Legalistic religions are the "playground taunters" of theology.
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Jehovah(tm)
I love that you do this every time. The brilliance of it initially went over my head but the longer you see it the more it sinks in.
Yeah, it's branding, marketing, and crude advertising. It's far from just the JW's. Come worship Allah. Jesus saves. Come worship Buddha. You get to call yourself Buddhist, or Muslim, or Christian and that is an identity which separates you from the rest. It feeds into the psyche, and primitive instincts..
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
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Marked, to obsess about their use of the name of their god is promotion of their corporate identity symbol, like the shape of the bottle is to Coca Cola.
Dave, so with the corporate identities in place this allows the anonymous new JW to buy into the life style they market:
Exclusive Bible based religion with leaders who have a close connection with him upstairs.smiley: smile
Bible based promise that if I keep the cult rules I’ll get through Armageddon and into utopian bliss.smiley: smilesmiley: smile
Not only but also:
at last, a distinct personal identity. I now know who I am now that I have become a member of the org.smiley: smilesmiley: smilesmiley: smile
God identity, corporation identity and personal identity...what a package! the whole shebang under one roof!
Wait a mo, trouble is, this organisation has an uninterrupted 140 year record of total failure.smiley: sick
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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at last, a distinct personal identity. I now know who I am now that I have become a member of the org.smiley: smilesmiley: smilesmiley: smile
Yeah saw this a million times if I saw it once. Put on the 'new personality.'
Many in my congregation used to ridicule worldly people who felt they could 'find themselves' in college. They didn't understand what needed to be found. Who can be surprised?
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineJoe Magarac
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Even though I no longer believe in the existence of any God or gods, I do not see how the notion of God having a name is a sticking point.
Santa Claus has a name. Or rather several names, just like God.
So does Superman.
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1 Corinthians 8:5
5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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The reason why the WBTS adopted the name Jehovah ...... and then called themselves Jehovah's Witnesses ....... is so they could corner the god name market and keep their followers at arm's length from everyone else. It wouldn't matter if the Catholic church themselves acknowledged that the Hebrew Yahweh anglicised beautifully to Jehovah ..... the 'trademark' is already taken and no-one in their right mind would want to push the jdubs any higher than they've already pushed themselves.
I am such a cynic! Must be the weather!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHumbleLove
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It's an interesting point you bring up HalfBanna, why call God "Jehovah?"
I asked a JW that question and here's the answer!
"By praying to "Jehovah" instead of just praying to "God", you get to learn Jehovah's personality. "
I am not sure what I think about that, but it was an interesting answer.
@Andria I do think your reason is more logical. Cornering the God name market.
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Certainly has stopped other religions from using the name of god or perceived name of god ... or is that interpreted name of god? Either way ... you can see why they did it!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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The sisters are NOT doing it .......
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offlineAndriaSyxx
The sisters are NOT doing it .......
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and if they DO do it ... they must have their heads covered. Yep ... they must. It says so in the latest Kingdom Ministry for March. I thought you might enjoy this one folks ......
Gender bias continues to be alive and well within the framework of the WBTS. I particularly like the bit where the now head covered sister must remain seating during field service meetings. It's obvious standing up and not wearing a head scarf could cause anarchy!
image
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And below this lovely advice for sisters ......... some handy hints! Excellent ...
image
and just so you know what sample presentation they'll be using for April 1st edition of the Watchtower .....
image
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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Gotta make sure everything is in place in case a sister has to conduct.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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The instructions in the 'woman rule book' conclude with rules on how a sister is to deal with conducting a meeting when a brother with restricted privileges is present. We all know who that is - all the sex offenders in the congregations. There sure must be a lot of those "brothers" for the sisters to have to get special instructions on how to handle those cases - minute instructions. Right down to the escape clause for the shamed brother. "the elders might let him know which days the sisters will be conducting" In other words - pick a different day for field service, buddy.
The directions for how to deal with those "pre-teen baptized brothers" makes me lose my mind.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
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AndriaSyxx is going to warn me about the cheese again but I'm seeing a:
satirical piece with human-sized penises in suits conducting meetings and all the sisters in burqas.
After all, it seems that having a penis is primary qualification and not possesing one means that you cannot talk properly, or teach, or pray and that the crown of your head is particularly offensive to god.
birdwoman2 wrote:
The directions for how to deal with those "pre-teen baptized brothers" makes me lose my mind.
Yeah, maybe they shouldn't be baptized yet if they can't handle MANLY duties such as readin g from a book.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I had that thought flash across my mind too Dianne .... that there must be a hell of a lot of 'brothers' in the naughty corner if they have to make up a separate rules and then keep the sisters blissfully unaware of their wrongdoings!
Auth .... what did I say about late night cheese servings? smiley: roll
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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KM wrote:
she should avoid giving the appearance of instructing those in attendance+
auth wrote:
human-sized penises in suits= Misogynistic pricks.
KM wrote:
a very young, perhaps preteen, baptized brother ... not yet qualified to conduct the meeting
Not old enough to lead a Bible discussion with other believers but old enough to dedicate his life to the Watchtower and face a life of being shunned if he ever realizes his mistake.
Russ.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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You also notice how the woman's word has no authority - she cannot 'instruct' but she can 'initiate discussion'.
Oh. So small chat is okay. But don't for a minute think that what a penis-less person with a hanky on her head says has any weight.
Nope. No teachers to come out of the vagina class.
I am curious. I know that there are female school teachers who are JWs who teach in the public school system. I wonder if she would have to start covering her head in the classroom if there happened to be one of those pre-teen baptized 'brothers' in her class? Maybe this would be a good "Question for the Readers" to send in.
And then people wonder why there are so many cases of women being treated like crap by the elders. Those elders, most of them, were probably pre-teen baptized brothers who learned that they had authority over everything that wore a skirt. Behavioral templates, instilled that young, are hard to erase.
The Watchtower Society, with their outdated and abusive attitudes towards women, are now seeing the consequences of those prejudicial views. Men who are given a false sense of entitlement to power are susceptible to thinking that they are above the law.
Someone (pssst...Mel) who writes online articles should do a piece about how these Watchtower policies instill abusive attitudes towards women.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
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If a pre-teen baptized boy isn't qualified to conduct a meeting, why was he allowed to get baptized in the first place? Just a thought..... As for ranking said pre-teen kids above their own mothers, grandmothers and other grown womenimage
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... totally awesome point Dianne! #9 [-]
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I am curious. I know that there are female school teachers who are JWs who teach in the public school system. I wonder if she would have to start covering her head in the classroom if there happened to be one of those pre-teen baptized 'brothers' in her class? Maybe this would be a good "Question for the Readers" to send in.
I am sitting at home ... alone of course as the fellas are at work and school ................. laughing myself silly. Out loud! smiley: laugh
I've only ever personally met one teacher during my jdub lifetime just before I left (my short 18 years). Being a couple of years older than me and in the same 'you are wasting your time getting higher education because the world is ending in 1975' group of young jdubs ..... HE (not she) experienced lots of opposition when heading off to university to begin with. His reason for going? He had some kind of accident that damaged one of his hands and he couldn't do manual work! He was of course then praised once he got his education ... because he would 'witness to the children during school hours'. He never did because that would have meant being dismissed for teaching personal viewpoints .... but I did often wonder what he did when the more traditional Christian style holidays and events would crop up on the school calendar. Did HE put himself in the corner when the other kids were drawing Easter Eggs and Easter Bonnets on their art paper? Did HE step outside the room for scripture classes?
I do remember my nanna putting a hanky over her head a few times during field service meetings ... and yes ... she stayed seated and didn't 'instruct' so much as 'engage'!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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"No teachers to come out of the vagina class"
I want to say that to the next 'sister' who shows up at my door (in an appropriate context, of course)
Knowing that this might be fresh in their minds when the memorial invites are going out I might just bring it up!
The mysogynism of the patriarchal Bible religions was a constant irritant to me and thankfully, I was able to make the comparison and connection with the radical Islam that was getting more attention in the 1990's.
Just say it Anthony Morris! Put on a burqa sisters!!!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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One has to wonder if teachers and gbs could come out of the vagina class what the vaginas would say. Who knows, maybe the same thing but at least maybe the vagina gb would not make us cover our heads in Kleenex, napkins, diapers, toilet paper or anything else handy if the almighty penis is present or not. I am still speechless that they are admitting that there are baptized brothers not worthy to shut the sister up. I mean who would fall into that category but young boys and perverted men who can't hide their crimes.
status offlineFiguringitout20
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So sisters are supposed to instruct people through service and bible studies, but once the individual is baptized they are to cease giving any appearance of instruction. Heaven forbid a woman sounds intelligent and capable of instructing others. Though I guess for them it's not about capability, but about ensuring women know their place in the org and are subservient to the men. The comments above had me laughing. It's so ridiculous isn't it?
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whytebyrd2 wrote:
"No teachers to come out of the vagina class"
4ba366cd1969835e2c5ddfee0d4098fd1e8e1c1a
I want to say that to the next 'sister' who shows up at my door (in an appropriate context, of course)
Knowing that this might be fresh in their minds when the memorial invites are going out I might just bring it up!
The mysogynism of the patriarchal Bible religions was a constant irritant to me and thankfully, I was able to make the comparison and connection with the radical Islam that was getting more attention in the 1990's.
Just say it Anthony Morris! Put on a burqa sisters!!!Maybe if a sister comes by to give you a memorial invite you can offer it back to her as appropriate material to cover her head with next time she has to demonstrate her inferiority.
It seems that in religious systems where there are many sexual restrictions the onus often falls on women to hide themselves lest men are tempted.
It's the woman's fault if a man notices her and has "impure" thoughts! She wasn't dressed 'modestly' enough (ie covered from head to toe).
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
Last Edited By: auth Feb 19 15 6:11 AM. Edited 3 times.
status offlinecangie
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"It seems that in religious systems where there are many sexual restrictions the onus often falls on women to hide themselves lest men are tempted.
It's the woman's fault if a man notices her and has "impure" thoughts! She wasn't dressed 'modestly' enough (ie covered from head to toe)."
I've observed this, too, auth and I've concluded that in their backwards way, the men in these religious systems are demonstrating their belief that they are weaker than women, perhaps afraid of them and acknowledging that women are more powerful than they are, since all women whether young or old are seen as possible "temptresses." (But I'll bet you couldn't get any of them to see it that way, though.........smiley: wink)
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I've concluded that in their backwards way, the men in these religious systems are demonstrating their belief that they are weaker than women, perhaps afraid of them and acknowledging that women are more powerful than they are
Cangie, you are absolutely right.
Oppression of classes of people, and in this case it is the vagina class, are oppressed by those in power because of fear. Fear is what propels abuse and subjection. Those in power perceive that certain classes of people are threatening to the ruling class's unentitled place of power.
Whenever you see oppression of a certain group of people, it is wise to evaluate why the ones doing the oppression are so protective of their position. If they weren't so unsure of their power legitimacy, there would be no need to oppress others.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
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Good grief!! Doesn't it get complicated smiley: laugh
I love the part about the adult brother who is 'restricted' from conducting meetings or giving prayers for reasons known 'only to the elders'.........if such a man is in attendance the sisters are to carry on as though he isn't there............
So if ever you see an adult brother who is ignored by the prayer-giving sisters............you all KNOW that he is in deep shit for something that won't remain 'confidential' for long smiley: smokin
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status offlinebirdwoman2
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So if ever you see an adult brother who is ignored by the prayer-giving sisters............you all KNOW that he is in deep shit for something that won't remain 'confidential' for long
That is why there is an 'escape clause' for those poor unfortunate 'brothers'. To avoid the shame and embarrassment (which is always more important than the safety of the sisters or children) that such a man would have to endure if he attended a 'sister-directed' meeting, the elders will alert them first so that they can choose a different field service meeting.
So, the wrong-doing man gets a 'heads up' but, the sisters are told nothing about what kind of dangers to watch out for if the 'bad brother' does attend and, even go out in service with those sisters. Note that the WTS doesn't warn the sisters - they protect the reputation of the man.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
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status offlineJourney
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When my teen son was baptized, one day I told him to do some chore. He stood there and said, "You know, I don't have to do anything you say anymore, because I'm a baptized brother." I chuckled at him and told him to try that and find out how things really are. He just snickered and did the chore. He was joking the whole time anyway. But I guess that is one indication we just really weren't a good fit in that org.
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I came up against the misogynist attitudes early in life. When I was twelve I said I wanted to handle the microphones. It looked more interesting than sitting through the watchtowel. Mom was quick to shoot that idea down. Only young brothers were allowed that 'privelage'. I couldn't understand what was so special that only boys got to do that. I got upset and said smoething about god not loving girls as much as boys. Mom had no answer for that; she just ignored it. Later, someone came to our KH to talk to possible candidates for Bethel. I'm not sure now who he was or what his rank was. One of the young hopefuls was a woman who had pioneered for the required number of years and knew a trade; she was a plumber and worked on just about every quick-build in our area. (She'd have made very good money if she had ever taken as job as a plumber, but had made pioneering her life.) Anyway, the first thing that man from Bethel did was tell any women in the room to leave; Bethel didn't want them. She was devastated but not devastated enough to walk away; she made excuses that this was 'imperfect men' talking and not god. Unfortunately, hatred and contempt for women is the one area where the Witnesses DO follow the Bible.
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Going down to 1 meeting a week.
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Going down to 1 meeting a week.
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So mom says they are only going to have Sunday meetings any more, and only 2 3 day assemblies per year. Sounds like they are strictly turning to the jw.org for their daily food.
status offlinecangie
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Soooooo.... what happened to "Do not neglect the gathering of yourselves together" that they have shoved down people's throats for years (and used as the basis by which to judge the quality of some member's "spirituality?") But, boy, do I bet the r and f are going to be happy with that one!
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Wait... what? Really?
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
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Really and truly? Wow! That would be a radical change from the Sunday meetings for two long hours, Tuesday night book study (yawn!), AND the two hours on Thursdays (double yawn!). When is this supposed to happen?
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Aparently she got bad info from the CO, as soon as he left I guess the elders had different plans.
status onlineGoingForth
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I was just going to write, "Really? Just decided to join 'Babylon the Great'? Which is doing quite well financially with only Sunday meetings.
Seemed rather impossible that they would down-size to only ONE meeting per week---and miss out on the money. But then again the people would be so glad to have the meetings cut they may open their purses even wider. But what would happen without the regular brain-washing?
The cuts do not seem likely--or do they think such a plan would have the apostates scrambling to get back in............Rolling
Matitalica it must be your mom's wishful thinking. Who wouldn't want those boring, time wasting meetings out!
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even touched—
They must be felt with the heart.”
Helen Keller
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Well well WELL! That's a turn around for the people from the good book!
My dad hasn't said anything yet BUT he has only just started going back again since my mum's death. One meeting per week eh. What's the bet it's all about safety in these wicked times ... or saving money in these wicked times ... or just because of these wicked times!
That's why they've spent all their money on their little TV channel ...... and singers ..... and song writers who write just like Randy Newman!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineMerchant of Malice
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I can only hope this is the case...though technically I've already cut down to the Sunday meetings as I have a night class on Thursdays (learning to program in Java)!
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or do they think such a plan would have the apostates scrambling to get back in
Great point GF!! Well I for one would certainly be rushing back..........anyone with me?? .......what no takers?? smiley: tongue
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status offlinepunkofnice
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i will be interested to see how this pans out. I wonder how true this is?
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineCacky
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I wonder, too. Maybe their Thursday night meetings are having such bad attendance that they feel they will pick up on attendance on Sundays if it's the only meeting. I wonder if they'll make it three hours, to include some kingdom ministry stuff. Interesting thought.
status offlineinspecterD
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If they do they will have to have the rank and file dedicate another evening during the week as family study night or something. They could save on paper...you know they wouldn't have to print the KM's anymore for Thursday service meeting. Just sayin...
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Has anyone had or heard confirmation about the slack tarts no longer wanting to meet so often yet?
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Disfellowshipping - What Does 1 Cor 5:11 mean?
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offlineWondering
Disfellowshipping - What Does 1 Cor 5:11 mean?
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Corinthians 5:11-13) 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves."
I guess I'm asking this question because I'm wondering if/when it will happen to me, if I start speaking openly about my thoughts and feelings on the organization. So this question is obviously directed towards those that believe the bible is inspired - what does this scripture mean? Does it, in fact, give permission for people to shun others that are offically kicked out from the congregation? Does it mean something different?
I gues a "wicked man" could encompass a lot, I'm just trying to figure out if disfellowshipping is then a bible teaching. I looked at the above scripture in the Kings James bible just to see if different words were used, but it was pretty much the same as the NWT. Any thoughts? Or if this has been discussed before, I'd appreciate a link. I tried looking but didn't see anything that jumped out at me.
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Jwwondering, hello and welcome by the way.
Whatever that scripture really means JWs will twist it to serve their own purpose, they always do.
If you don't live on the edge you take up too much room
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Geowyn wrote:
Jwwondering, hello and welcome by the way.
Whatever that scripture really means JWs will twist it to serve their own purpose, they always do.I totally agree. Its not only with the Governing Body, but also individual body of elders make up their own rules too.
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But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.
In reality, that scripture cannot correctly be applied to anyone who does not claim to be 'a brother'. If you are not longer seeking to be an active member of the congregation, you cannot be 'called a brother'. Also, if you commited fornication in the past, but have since stopped, it can no longer be said that you 'are' a fornicator. So the prohibition against association would not apply if the 'sin' is not currently being committed. In fact, that latter point came from a Watchtower in the 70's. Of course, they have changed their policy since then - now they just say that anyone who leaves for any reason whatsoever is making themselves part of the 'antichrist', and can therefore be shunned.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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What Does 1 Cor 5:11 mean? It means whatever anyone interpreting it wants it to mean Wondering!
If the average JW was to adhere to the ... quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man ... they'd find the company of others would decrease in size over time as there are no perfect JWs.
Mak has a valid point in adding that if someone is no longer an active member of the JW faith they therefore cannot be considered a 'brother'. If that is the case ... then how can the average JW in all good conscience decide to no longer associate with them and how can they be disfellowshipped if they have already decided to leave under their own steam? Surely that would be counter-productive to whole 'love thy neighbour' stuff.
It all gets back to interpretations Wondering! What one group of JWs and elders believe to be a dreadful disfellowship worthy sin ... another group will treat it as a mere trifling and nothing worth more than a rebuke. Control ... plain and simple control!
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AndriaSyxx wrote:
It all gets back to interpretations Wondering! What one group of JWs and elders believe to be a dreadful disfellowship worthy sin ... another group will treat it as a mere trifling and nothing worth more than a rebuke. Control ... plain and simple control!Such a great point, Andria. You can do one thing in a congregation and be slapped on the wrist, but try the same thing somewhere else and you are DF'd. I grew up with someone who should have been in trouble all the time, but his dad was PO and a well known family. The kid did stuff multiple times that ANYWHERE would be a disfellowshipping offense - other than murder, you name it and he did it. Never once reproved, publicly or (so he boasted) privately either. He's an elder now.
status offlineCacky
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Wouldn't it be nice to be a jw and have that guy as an elder? And I'm sure he'd be the kind to come down really hard on others. I've read somewhere that in the days of the Apostles, they met in homes, shared a meal first, then went about their religious business, so the not sharing a meal was referring to that. I could be wrong.
Cacky
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And i don't know what the offical stance is on the death penalty, but I always heard that Witnesses should be against it, because no man can judge another, we can't see what's in their hearts, so how could we do such a thing. In a lesser way, that would apply to serving on a jury.
So how is it ok for elders to judge a member of the congregation and say who is worthy of disfellowshipping, and who isn't?
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I believe the official stance on the death penalty is that governments have the God-given right to use it, but they are also accountable to God if they do use it. Jury service is technically a conscience matter, but generally seems to be frowned on.
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When I was still going ... so long ago now it should be much fuzzier ... jury duty was NOT okay and certainly not a conscience thing. The death penalty issue isn't an issue in Australia but when it was ... JWs were supposed to keep themselves free from making comment as they were 'paying god's things to god' and all that JW crap.
Wondering ... I grew up believing that the elders were chosen by Jehovah and he chose them based on their spirituality and their dedication towards the faith, the flock and their families. I'm sure there are some truly lovely elders in the world ... however the ones I've come across have always had that little controlling 'air' about them. I wonder why there are so many differences in judgment when they all claim to follow the same religion and all claim that only god can judge!
As for the ever-increasing changes in 'conscience decisions' ... what can one say about that other than "why?"
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Great posts here!!
But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves."
I don't see anywhere in that scripture being told to 'quit mixing with anyone called a brother, who is not a fornicator, is not wicked, is not greedy or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard but has simply chosen to follow God in another way'.......
How the hell they can judge others, when they were always telling us that 'only Jehovah can see peoples hearts' I don't know!!! But then nothing they do surprises me anymore........
.....as Rhonda says, they do not shun us because we are wicked, or that they even believe us to be so, they shun those who leave to keep those still in the org in line!! They rule by isolation and fear..........one look at Randy's letter from the society here tells us all we need to know about them
Last Edited By: solitaire Jul 6 10 7:04 AM. Edited 1 times.
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And i don't know what the offical stance is on the death penalty, but I always heard that Witnesses should be against it, because no man can judge another, we can't see what's in their hearts, so how could we do such a thing. In a lesser way, that would apply to serving on a jury.
So how is it ok for elders to judge a member of the congregation and say who is worthy of disfellowshipping, and who isn't?
I think you may have just answered your own question. Answer: They CAN'T judge others. They say this time and time again at the meetings. Yet they fail to apply this same belief in the realms of a judicial committee. Why you ask? Because, it's simple. They think they are "directed" by god himself.....his "holy spirit" guides their decisions.....it's "gods organization" and not theirs to run. Lastly they claim to go in prayer to God before "judging" someone for a decision. Ask.....how does God convey his answer back to them? Easy....he doesn't! It's all smoke and mirrors and like Andria and others brought out.....they will translate that scripture into whatever meaning suits their belief system. It's always been that way.
Corinthians 5:11-13) 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves."
Another point to consider with this scripture is that it's speaking about someone who has committed a SIN. Most of us here have not committed a "sin" but rather just chose to walk away from a man made, self-appointed religion. There's a difference. They claim divinity, and so can claim that any leaving their little religion is also leaving God himself. Trouble is.....almost ALL religions on the face of the planet claim that Gods works only through them.
A point to keep in mind too as you sort all this out.......if God wanted a person to know something WITHOUT the chance of it being mistranslated, or misconstrued......he would have made it CRYSTAL CLEAR in the scriptures. When I was first exiting the religious beliefs of this organization, one thing that I learned quickly was that the Bible should be taken with a "grain of salt" as they say. Don't take it so literally. There are so many stories in the Bible.....and they are just that.....STORIES. If you find something beneficial from these stories, then that's great! BUT.....they shouldn't be confused with LAWS. As I said, IF god wrote the bible....then he would have made his "laws" clear and concise, without the possibility of them being open to more than one translation.
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jwwondering wrote:
And i don't know what the offical stance is on the death penalty, but I always heard that Witnesses should be against it, because no man can judge another, we can't see what's in their hearts, so how could we do such a thing. In a lesser way, that would apply to serving on a jury.
So how is it ok for elders to judge a member of the congregation and say who is worthy of disfellowshipping, and who isn't?I was at a convention, admittedly a few years ago, where a group of brothers were answering questions and one of them was about the death penalty.
The answer given was that the death penalty is right but that JWs cannot vote on it because then it becomes political.
If you don't live on the edge you take up too much room
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Great points by everyone. You know, if and when I finally get around to explaining my scared self to my wife, do you think all of you could join me for that moment? Maybe teleconference or something?
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Hi JWwondering,
Welcome to our support community! This is a great place for questions like you've posted.
I must admit up front I do not believe the Bible is inspired, so you'll have to fold in my thoughts with a few others here who are Christians.
I guess I'm asking this question because I'm wondering if/when it will happen to me, if I start speaking openly about my thoughts and feelings on the organization.
If you start speaking openly it is almost certain you will either be disfellowshipped (if you elect to participate in judicial committee) or disassociated. The effect of course is the same -- shunning -- but on the bright side the comforting knowledge you've stood up for truth and what is right.
What does this scripture mean? Does it, in fact, give permission for people to shun others that are offically kicked out from the congregation? Does it mean something different?
Can Jehovah's Witnesses justify their modern judicial disfellowshipping, disassociation and shunning policies based on 1 Corinthians 5?
My answer would be: Maybe, but... and a big but it is!
The chapter opens with the words: Actually fornication is reported among YOU, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain [man] has of [his] father.
and it concludes by saying: For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
Thus when those who read Paul's words concurred and judged the man 'wicked' and 'removed' him, it probably would not be unreasonable to believe it might feel somewhat like modern day shunning. But (big but) that's as close as you can get to the modern practice. Nothing else about the modern practice finds direct Biblical support.
The first problem you run into is "YOU." Who exactly is being addressed? If Paul's letter was an open letter to the entire congregation, then the entire congregation is both informed and taking part in the judging. In the modern context the congregation is expected to exercise unquestioned obedience without being informed of the infraction. In fact if a congregation member were to asked they would be told it is not their business. The only business of the congregation member is to effect the punishment towards the disciplined member. The problem for Jehovah's Witnesses is no such pattern is really detectable in scripture let alone specifically outlined.
With over 40,000 to 60,000 members a year being subjected to expulsion and many more given "private reproof" this process is fairly common in the modern context. If it were common in the first century why is the Bible silent on giving details?
I guess a "wicked man" could encompass a lot
In context, 'wicked man', refers to exactly one individual -- the man mentioned in 1 Cor 5:1.
The problem of trying to overlay a judicial committee process only get worse when you consider the "reinstatement" of the "wicked man". 2 Cor 2:5-10 shows Paul directing the Corinthians to forgive the man. He says: Anything YOU kindly forgive anyone, I do too. Again we have the problem of "YOU". In the modern context YOU is strictly a committee of three or more men, backed by an official thumbs up / thumbs down response from HQ. Nothing indicates these letters of Paul were narrowly addressed.
In fact just the opposite seems to be the case. Paul concludes 2 Corinthians in the same manner as other letters: The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of YOU.
The announcement is defined in the Organization book on page 154. When someone is disfellowshipped or disassociated you will hear: "So-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Yet, this format is rather recent. Previously the format was: "So-and-so has been disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming a Christian." The only legitimate input into all this should be Biblical precedence. Yet one can clearly see the driver for this change was to protect Jehovah's Witnesses legally from laws on defamation. Elders have been instructed to exercise care on the disfellowshipping form. For example you would not expect to find, "So-and-so has been disfellowshipped for joining the army". Oh no -- it would read "for non-neutral activity". Why? Clearly the driver is not Biblical directives but a desire to protect themselves legally.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Your expressions have given me a new view on this Chapter. (I read the whole chapter over.) I got some exciting new insights from it.
1. So the man in question was openly having a sexual relationship with his own father's wife. (Notice it doesn't say 'widow'.) It could be a step mother or possibly his OWN MOTHER? Hold that thought for a few minutes.
2. Think about the story of Edipus who, it was prophesied, would kill his own father, and marry, his mother? [Getting intriguing?] Edy's father, the King of Thebes, crippled him and had him put out to die of exposure (A common practice in some ancient Greek city states like Sparta when a handicapped child is born.), in an attempt to thwart that prophesy, but baby Edipus was rescued and brought to....THE CITY OF CORINTH! Just imagine the interest this guy's actions generated among the Corinthians. (In ancient days that busy port was famous for its number of whores, and had the reputation of being "Sin City' of the Roman Empire.)
3. The local Christians--which must have been made up of a large number of Greek converts to Christianity--apparently joined their neighbors in taking a perverse pride in this fellow's reputation, whereas believing Jews saw nothing but shame his actions.
4. Over and over Paul says the MAN should be put out. Punishment of the woman is never mentioned. What do you make of that? Under Torah both people involved in adultery were to be stoned by the community. She was a married woman. (Although it was not unusual for girls of 12 - 14 to be married off to men much older than they were.). We are left to wonder if she was widowed or divorced by 'Big Daddy', and why she escaped being called an adulteress by Paul.
5. In this chapter of what we call the first letter to Corinth, Paul refers to previous letter he'd sent them (About this same issue?). Don't you wonder what happened to that epistle?
6. Consider this--there was a enormous clash of cultures among the early Christians. Remember, all of the first believers in Jesus were his fellow Jews (who else was looking for the Messiah?) These people who'd been raised on Torah, Prophets and the Writings of the bible starting from three years of age were steeped in those values. Gentiles, who were for the most part new believers in Jesus. had no biblical education other than what they'd picked up by attending the synagogue where "Moses is taught". What these folks were raised on were the dramatic exploits of Greek mythology. Think about the HUGE cultural differences that would create! No wonder they hadn't acted the way Paul thought was appropriate, and no wonder he was so horrified by this man's particular sin.
BTW, The Greek word "pornos" (porno; fornication, bestiality, homosexuality, adultry, prostitution--the whole gammut of illicit sexual activity) comes from the root word "sell" (!) and in this form appears to mean "don't have anything to do with that "male prostitute". Any thoughts?
The Greek word in the phrase "do not mix with" comes from the root 'compound', meaning to blend, to be intimate with. It's a far cry from the way Witnesses are told to treat the disfellowshipped ones.
Last Edited By: Cee Cee Jul 7 10 5:56 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Thanks for your thoughts, Randy. Those were a very helpful way to think about it. Again, it's all in how the scriptures are interpreted, even down to the word "You".
CeeCee - Mixing mythology with reality to explain how they viewed different behaviors, I love it!
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Hi JWwondering,
Have you ever wondered why second-personal pronoun YOU is printed in capital letters in the NWT? As Wikipedia notes 'you' in modern English can be either singular or plural. In old English 'thou' served the singular form. The NWT translators decided to use all caps to indicate plural. Here is what reference edition of the NWT says on the subject:
SECOND PERSON PLURALS: Where "YOU" is printed in small capital letters, it shows that the pronoun is plural. Also, where the plural number of a verb is not apparent, its plurality is indicated by printing it in small capital letters. If the context already clearly indicates plurality, then no special capitalization is used.
Thus we can see in context Paul is addressing more than one person. It could be Paul is writing to just the "older men" of the congregation and if there is more than one then a plural YOU would still make sense. But the context nowhere supports such an idea -- these letters are addressed to an entire congregation.
For example, at 2 Corinthians 10:10 Paul mentions those who say "[His] letters are weighty and forceful, but [his] presence in person is weak." It would seem hard to argue this is anything but a reference to how some in an entire congregation viewed his letters compared to his public speaking. And at Colossians 4:16 and 1 Thessalonians 5:27 Paul directly mentions the reading of his letters "to all the brothers."
I have left the faith and if some who remain judge such as ending our friendship I am okay with that. What is not so cool is elders making that decision on behalf of others knowing their influence carries considerable impact on believing members. Especially is this rather uncool if what I have done is merely left and not something people in general would consider morally objectionable. As an elder, thou can suggest thou art following a Biblical precedent, but I can not see where you're getting your support from.
Cheers,
-Randy
Last Edited By: rawe Jul 10 10 6:50 AM. Edited 2 times.
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Hi Cee Cee,
I read your post -- very interesting. I going to come back and read it again when I have more time. We do tend to forget that 'context' can speak very broadly. We should seek to understand the larger mindset of people in time and place.
Cheers,
-Randy
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It all makes sense, but sadly, talking sense and providing clear and understandable evidence to anyone in the congregation is useless. Once they start to get nervous about "apostate thoughts", they will simply fall back onto the old "we just have to put our trust in Jehovah aka the f&ds".
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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It's fear Wondering. Plain outright fear. It's the downside of the JW religion and yet it's their biggest tool for keeping people on the straight and narrow. Scare them into staying ... emotionally blackmail them into staying ... give them ultimatums into staying. Religion? Nup. Control? Yep.
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Disfellowshipping - What Does 1 Cor 5:11 mean?
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status offlineLavendergalUK
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Jul 13 10 10:39 AM
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Well I think this scripture contradicts itself. Look at this scripture.....
The "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" incident is one of the most well-known lessons of the Bible. A woman, who had been caught in the act of adultery was brought to Jesus Christ by the scribes (see Lawyers) and Pharisees (see Who Were The Pharisees?) as a test to see if the Messiah was a liberal in matters of the Law of God. In response to their deceitful query, He didn't condemn the woman, not because He was a liberal, not because He condoned her sin, but because the men who brought the woman to Him were Hypocrites. He was the only person there that day who was free of sin, the only one who had the right to "cast the first stone." He didn't stone her (or her accusers), but instead forgave her and told her to "sin no more." Otherwise, the day is coming when she, if she didn't thereafter repent, won't be stoned, but will be burned - along with the hypocrites who brought her to Him that day, if they didn't thereafter repent of their sin:
I'm guessing though they would get around this by saying that Jesus says sin no more. How can she possibly sin no more when he has just said that everyone is sinful? Jesus wasn't specific when he said "sin no more" He didn't say do not commit adultery no more did he?
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Hi Jackie,
fyi: The account of the adulterous woman may be an addition to the gospel of John.
Cheers,
-Randy
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It can also be noted that Paul did not insist that everyone participate in the shunning. Later he wrote that the "majority" participate in the rebuke, showing that some in the congregation may choose not to show rebuke to the person.
2 Corinthians 2:5-6 "Now if anyone has caused sadnessM, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent-not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man…"
The New World Translation reference M shows Paul was here referring to the situation discussed at 1 Corinthians 5, (as do Christian scholars).
Paul gave similar advice on a number of occasions to 'mark' and 'avoid' wrongdoers. This does not mean that the person must be totally ignored, never uttered a greeting, avoiding eye contact, crossing the street to get away from, all common experiences of disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Hi Jwfacts,
Very good point! Funny how one doesn't notice these things while in the faith.
Cheers,
-Randy
status offlinebluesmanna
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yeah totally great point... I had sex with my wife for six months and got her pregnant before she was my wife, and the elders reasoned that I was repentant and did not disfellowship me. Now my sister in law, my wifes sister, had sex with a brother (she's not baptized) for one week before they decided that they needed the help of the elders, what did they do? They disfellowshipped the brother, and he still goes to meetings and I haven't been in a while. lol who really was the repentant one, who really was the bad association?.... I don't mean to cause anyone to stumble but jeez it sure seems weird.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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It gets down to who a person is, what family ties they have within a hall, what 'standing' they have, how old they are etc ... then it's up to the elders of the hall to decide. It's unfathomable to read of two couples engaging in sex before marriage ... both confess, both repent ... yet one couple is not disfellowshipped or 'punished' and the other one is.
From what I've seen first-hand and what I've read in here Blues ... 'punishment' varies from hall to hall, from town to town, from city to city and from country to country. What is considered a heinous 'sin' in one hall and the person or persons involved are kicked out ... it's a mere misdemeanour elsewhere and they're given encouragement to do the right thing from then on.
Bear in mind too that some people who have been reproved, disassociated or disfellowshipped continue to attend meetings despite restrictions ... because they either believe the religion is 'the truth' or because they know what lays ahead of them if they leave for good. Not everyone can run the gauntlet of being shunned by those who profess to love them ... and all in the name of religion!
status offlineHumbleLove
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If some people who have been reproved, disassociated or disfellowshipped continue to attend meetings. Those people must have to endure
shunning face to face for a length of time. I would think that would make them not want to be around those people. But, at the same time I can
understand why for some they would take whatever punishment they were handed......because in the future they would have the attention of family
and friends again.
I have learned one thing for sure, it takes someone brave to leave the cult.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Yes Humbley ..... you are right. It DOES take someone brave to leave the cult!
There's that Catch 22 scenario repeating itself over and over again when it comes to those who are kicked out. They lose their family and friends ... specially those who've been born into the religion or who have inherited it as young kids from their parents who joined up ................... and the shunning message can be a very effective tool to get the wrongdoers to repent and go back. Not everyone is fortunate to have parents like mine who may have chosen to shut me out for a while .... but who also realised (I was patient with them) ............that I was still the same me even though I wasn't following their religious path in life. It's a buggered if you do and buggered if you don't set up with that lot!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHumbleLove
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Yes, patience can work in a variety of situations.
The Catch 22 scenario is a sad one.
And I still can't find the chat room...lol.
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status offlineAndriaSyxx
...... honestly Humbley ........ #30 [-]
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..... it's just above 'Help and Discussion' board area ..... where it says ...... wait for it .................. 'LIVE CHAT' Chuckle
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHumbleLove
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LOL....on my screen there is no "live chat" I see...."Invite Friends." "Contribute now!" View Contributors." And all kinds of things.
Of course...I could still just be missing it....?? image
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offlinewalkaway
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Nov 13 14 7:39 PM
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Had to share this title. 1914 to 2014 the end of an error. VERY big error!
http://ex-jw.com/celebrate-1914-to-2014-the-end-of-an-error
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Thanks Walkaway ...... looks like there's a new website set up by Barbara Anderson and her crew. It's really good ... I've just been in there.
On October 2, 1914, Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Watch Tower, announced that “The Gentile Times have ended!”
None of his expectations about 1914 came true, but Jehovah’s Witnesses have continually accepted updates to the “1914 doctrine, allowing them to cling to that date for 100 years. But the Watch Tower’s grip on 1914 is coming loose.
One of the most basic ideas behind the “1914 doctrine” was that no one would be questioning it 100 years later. The very definition of the “1914 generation” that would live to see Armageddon has required numerous doctrinal “adjustments” as the years have passed. The 100-year milestone has, therefore, become more like a “millstone” around the Watchtower’s neck.
So while the Watch Tower Society ostensibly celebrates, it is really only highlighting its own errors.
That’s why we’re announcing a new web site: http://www.ad1914.com/ (available online October 1, 2014). This website truly celebrates the life experiences of so many Jehovah’s Witnesses who studied the matter closely “to see whether these things were so.” (Acts 17:11)
New link to AD1914 is available by clicking right .... HERE ....
Wonder how long it will be before the WBTS trolls start trying to shut that website down. I guess you can't hide from the REAL truth eh!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHugoVonStype.paleoplanet69529
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Nov 17 14 10:22 AM
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Marvellous. There is also a face book page: https://www.facebook.com/ad1914
status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Nov 17 14 11:52 AM
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2014 was a date I had set in my own head as being about as long as I'd wait before Armageddon. I did not think growing up that it would be possible for it to occur after 2014.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status onlineSpiralblue
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Nov 17 14 6:13 PM
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I thought the same about 2000 - growing up I couldn't imagine going past that point, now I'm amazed we are at 2014 and so many in the bOrg just keep marching right along.....
Om........
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I was told it would be 1975 ... there was no doubt. The world would be ending in October 1975. That's a while ago now!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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I also thought it would be by the year 2000. If I remember right, the borg encouraged that thinking.
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Spiralblue wrote:
I thought the same about 2000 - growing up I couldn't imagine going past that point, now I'm amazed we are at 2014 and so many in the bOrg just keep marching right along.....
It's a habit, they aren't bothered.
Love the title too!
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Be sure to click on 'Veil Mail' when you check this site out...absolutely hillarious! It's a critique from Charles (the Tazer) Russell from 'the great beyond' slamming what became of his 'baby' the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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According to the 1975 bound volume, '75 was supposed to be it, '76 at the very latest. The writers were very careful not to state 'Yes absolutely 1975 is it' but that date was heavily implied and if you didn't buy into it you lacked faith. I was born in December of '75 and just turned 39. Growing up there were quotes iname the magazines from nameless so-called 'experts' that it would be impossible for the rotten, violent world to last beyond 2000. Here's 2015 and we're still here. Guess the GB needs to get their crystal ball tuned up!
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