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Father of US plane crash in the Alps victim is a jw
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offlineCacky
Father of US plane crash in the Alps victim is a jw
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http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/03/27/plane-crash-victims-father-i-dont-feel-a?videoId=363650445
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He's using the opportunity to witness. I'm sure he has his own personal pain but he's doing what he's expected to do.
I don't think JWs get to grieve properly because they don't want to look like they don't have faith in "Jehovah's promises".
He said nothing at all about his child! Most people would say something about the kind of person the victim was.
It's truly tragic that a commercial pilot would deliberately crash a plane carrying himself and hundreds of other people.
It's hard to plan against something like that. I wouldn't blame the "ruler of the world" for this one just the person flying the plane into a mountain.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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I noticed also that he was towing the party line in what he said. It was almost like he didn't care that he lost his son.
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It was almost like he didn't care that he lost his son.
I think that is a normal reaction for a JW. It would not be normal for the father to display signs of what we think of as grief.
You are dealing with a totally different species here, Cacky - the person who has been told that an early death of loved ones is preferable to an 'eternal death'. The JWs believe that dying before Armageddon is a free ticket to a resurrection on a Paradise Earth.
The father probably sees his son's death as a blessing - a relief that his son will be gloriously brought to life on a 'perfect' earth'....blessed to have not had to see and survive that horrible war yet to come - Armageddon.
We would likely feel and display the same emotions as that father - if we still believed as he does.
The Watchtower Society has instilled perverted views of death and dying among their followers.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
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I can remember being told that we shouldn't mourn for our loved ones like 'worldly' people because we had the 'truth'. That never made me feel any better when someone I cared about died. JW memorial services are so cold and impersonal, no comfort to be found.
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The NIghtliine (ABC) program about JWs
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offlineCacky
The NIghtliine (ABC) program about JWs
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status offlinejerryjax99
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Yes! So happy to see this on ABC. Now we need it to air on primetime (5-8 PM). Wait for JW to state that news channels (that they used before covering KH builds, reliefs from disasters and convention coverage) are "apostate" and shouldn't be watched.
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I have the Dateline episode saved on my DVR. Good segment, but I was disappointed that in my area anyway it didn't air until after midnight.
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Candice's lawyer's comment ...... "If ever there's a group that needs the sun to shine on them ... it's this group". Brilliant. And apt.
The tosser's third wife ... grandmother of the first victim he was jailed for abusing ...... wasn't behaving very modest or Christian was she!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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@sg I understand your disappointment that in your area the show didn't air until after midnight. I watch t.v. between midnight and four a.m. So, for someone like me that's the perfect time. I think all different times are good. Anything to get the
public aware.
What's even better is this is on ABC a major channel.
@ Andria I really like that comment that the lawyer made..........it truly is genius.
@jerry They don't already say that watching news is apostate? lol.
@Cacky Thank you for posting the video.
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I agree, Andria. That woman was as much a tosser as her husband! I wanted to jump through the TV screen and smack her!
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Is God's name Yahweh or Jehovah?
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offlineFatherFirst
Is God's name Yahweh or Jehovah?
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Mar 14 15 11:54 PM
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In my early stages of waking up, the one thing I would always default to was: "well the witnesses are the only ones who are proclaiming gods true name, and are even called Jehovah's Witnesses, so it has to be Jehovah's organization." until I read the answer to the question (Is God's name Yahweh or Jehovah?) at this website http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah the indoctrination told me it's online so of course it's a lie. But then I found the proof I needed straight from the horses mouth from the 2011 watchtower library, in the (1984) Brochure (The Divine Name That Will Endure Forever) under the heading [How Is God's Name Pronounced? - pp 6] where everything I read on that site was verified. Here is a link to the screenshot of the article. http://tinypic.com/r/2r2ryn8/8 recently Bart Ehrman, an American new testament scholar posted a brilliant thorough explanation on the subject; here's a link to his blog on the use of Jehovah in the New Testament ($4 donation required)
http://ehrmanblog.org/is-jehovah-in-the-bible/
Last Edited By: FatherFirst Mar 15 15 12:09 AM. Edited 1 time.
status offlineHumbleLove
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Is this a trick question?
I have no idea how to answer...so I answered your question with a question !
Are you asking is God's name either Yahweh or Jehovah?
Meaning just one of those names or both of those names. Or yet a third way.....neither Yahweh or Jehovah?
Which question are you asking?
Last Edited By: HumbleLove Mar 15 15 2:08 AM. Edited 1 times.
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The subject of my post was the question I feel I found the answer to; I just wanted to share what I found. Bart Ehrman already thoroughly answered that question for me in his blog here: http://ehrmanblog.org/is-jehovah-in-the-bible/
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It's great to be able to research and find answers to all our questions on the Internet. Is there some special reason you are researching that particular question?
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For me like I said in my initial post, the belief that the title of jehovah was important to make known, and the witnesses were the only ones I could think of that were doing that, was a belief that no matter how many doubts I had I would always default to. That kept me from fully freeing myself for a long time. Until I finally found the information that proved to me that the name jehovah is false. A realization that made me decide to finally do some research for myself. Just wanted to share what I found, incase someone else here happens to be facing the same obstacle.
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cmypsp:
So it appears that you have made some basic assumptions listed here, but not limited to:
1) There is a God/Creator person/being.
2) This God has a name.
3) This God/Creator person/being is of Judeo/Christian belief origin.
4) The spelling and pronunciation of the proper name of the God/Creator person/being is in dispute.
5) The spelling and pronunciation of the proper name of the Judeo Christian God/Creator person/being is an issue worth arguing.
6) This God person cares how you pronounce it's name.
7) That everything you can read in a "Bible" is relevant and worthy of consideration and argument and research.
Personally, I don't believe that any of these assumptions are correct.
I would counter with this:
I have a friend whose name is George. He was born in Mexico. He now lives in Canada and works with mostly English speakers who call him George. In Mexico he is known as Horhay. George = Horhay in spanish pronunciation.
Horhay/George is not offended by either pronunciation or his name.
Morover, most of latin america is Christian, and they all revere and worship "Heyzoos" (Jesus) , who is their saviour, according to their Bibles.
According to Jewish tradition, the old testament god is to be called Yawheh. But they had no vowels in their written text so who really knows for sure. The JW's pretended to have secret knowledge and proposed an alternate pronunciation, and made it their marketing brand.. and the rest is history.
And just how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
T
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At this point in my life I couldn't agree with u more locutus. But lets assume all the assumptions you listed that I made when I was just waking up, to a jw aren't assumptions at all, but purely fact. This being a recovery site I'm hoping in some way to mabey help someone who felt as I did shortly after being disfelloshiped. Confused, with most of the beliefs and guilt still having a strong hold on them. It's a big enough mental jump to go from knowing without a shadow of a doubt the most important name in the universe, to learning it's not only not important, but completely made up. Let alone trying to jump straight to there may be no god, and the bible is likely the most dangerous piece of propaganda known to man. Baby steps locutus.
Last Edited By: FatherFirst Mar 15 15 7:48 PM. Edited 4 times.
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cmypsp:
Thanks. Agreed. In my case the baby steps are long past..
(:
status offlineJoe Magarac
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Yahweh is closer to the original Hebrew, but really it's just a translation question not a question about the nature of the Deity if any.
Manitou, Ganesh, Apollo, whatever you like.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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cmypsp wrote:
At this point in my life I couldn't agree with u more locutus. But lets assume all the assumptions you listed that I made when I was just waking up, to a jw aren't assumptions at all, but purely fact. This being a recovery site I'm hoping in some way to mabey help someone who felt as I did shortly after being disfelloshiped. Confused, with most of the beliefs and guilt still having a strong hold on them. It's a big enough mental jump to go from knowing without a shadow of a doubt the most important name in the universe, to learning it's not only not important, but completely made up. Let alone trying to jump straight to there may be no god, and the bible is likely the most dangerous piece of propaganda known to man. Baby steps locutus.
I was told from a very early age that there was only one god and his name was Yahweh (the English pronunciation of the Hebrew symbols with the vowels added) and that Yahweh in English or should I say American as that's where old Charlie conjured up his religion .... was actually meant to be Jehovah. I was also told that there was only one true religion and that the Jehovah's Witnesses in fact HAD 'the truth'. As an atheist myself ... I don't really mind what religious people call their god or gods ... providing that they don't try and push their particular brand of faith in my direction or the direction of my boys.
Tim's comments were made in response to your comments. They are not out of line at all and I agree with what he said about the jdubs taking on the name for themselves as part of their brand. By doing that ... they have effectively gained 'ownership' if you like of the name Yahweh or Jehovah ...... thereby making it ridiculously hard for any other religion to agree that it is indeed the name of their god too. Only one group of people can lay claim to the name and the jdubs got in first. I'm surprised they didn't try and trademark the name Jesus as well! What better way to make sure that a religion claiming to be 'the truth' and claiming to have 'the truth' .... than by adopting and adapting the Hebrew name for what other religious scholars have no doubt read to be god's name.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Welcome FF.
I hope you enjoy el forumo.
I was born into the 'truth(tm)' and really, now I've left, I'm giving my brain a rest from all the spin, propaganda and religious nonsense all around.
What can I say? Live long and prosper...or live prosp and longer!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
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ELDER POISONED BY DISFELLOWSHIPPED MEMBER - ADELAIDE SOUTH AUSTRALIA
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offlineLiezel RD
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It's hard to know who is more out of their mind in this scenario, the Elder or the perpetrator.
Alleged Jehovah’s Witness poisoner Brett Darren Mardon: I drank weed killer first to ensure it wouldn’t be fatal
Brett Darren Mardon is standing trial in the District Court, accused of poisoning an elder in his Jehovah's Witness congregation. Picture: Greg Higgs Source: News Corp Australia
A JEHOVAH’S Witness says he tested the effects of weed killer by drinking it himself before embarking on a plan to “emotionally disturb” a church elder and reverse his excommunication.
Brett Darren Mardon has told the District Court he never intended to harm Ben Anthanysz, his wife or child by injecting their milk and apple juice with the weed killer glysophate.
Giving evidence, Mardon said he wanted to “play with their minds” so Mr Anthanysz would step down from the church conduct committee that “disfellowed” him a year earlier.
He said he believed Mr Anthanysz was blocking his return to the Jehovah’s Witness community which was, as demanded by its faith, acting as if he were “invisible”.
“I was getting desperate, I had no one to talk to, Jehovah’s Witness was my life ... I was just looking for something, anything, that would take Ben away from the committee,” he said.
“I wasn’t there to hurt Ben or his family, it was just purely wanting to be back within the congregation ... I wanted to emotionally disturb them, cause a little bit of uneasiness.
“Ben believes he’s doing the right thing (excommunicating me) but he’s not doing the right thing by me, that’s the drama.
Mardon attempts to avoid the media as he leaves court today. Source: News Corp Australia
“We don’t always do things that are right even though we believe that we are, and I’m a good example of that.”
Mardon, 47, has pleaded not guilty to three counts of attempting to create a risk of harm and three counts of serious criminal trespass in a place of residence.
Prosecutors have alleged that, between March and October 2011, he repeatedly injected the weed killer glysophate into milk and juice belonging to Mr Anthanysz.
They have alleged he did so because Mr Anthanysz sat on the three-member committee that, in 2010, excommunicated Mardon from the faith for extramarital sex.
Under the church’s rules of “disfellowship”, members of the congregation could no longer speak to, nor acknowledge, Mardon.
In his evidence, Mardon said he joined the Jehovah’s Witness faith when he was 19 and, by 2010, had no friends outside its ranks.
He said he felt “anguish” over the affair and was prepared to be disciplined for “lingering at the table of Satan”.
However he became distraught when, on three separate occasions, the committee refused to end his period of disfellowship.
“The Bible talks about God being a loving God, but it also speaks about disciplining those He loves ... that process applies to everyone, I was happy to follow it,” he said.
“But to step beyond discipline to the point where it’s emotionally damaging?”
Mardon said he was convinced Mr Anthanysz was “controlling” the committee and blocking his return, and so broke into his house seeking evidence to discredit him.
“He would be disfellowed, to be perfectly frank, and I would have had a fair — rather than biased — hearing,” he said.
When that plan failed he opted to poison their drinks with glysophate, which he chose after calling a poisons information line to ensure his dosages were not lethal.
“I actually made up various batches and drank them ... it was painful to drink, in the taste and the smell ... it was horrible,” he said.
“I believed nobody would ever drink this ... there’s nothing that hides (the smell and taste), nothing that disguises it.
“My purpose was that, perhaps, Ben’s family would put pressure on him not to go out every single night on congregation duties because they’d feel uncomfortable if he wasn’t home.”
In cross-examination, prosecutor Nick Healy disputed that motive.
“You’d lost everything, you lost your friends, you lost your wife and, in your mind, the cause of that was the elders and Mr Anthanysz,” he said.
“So you wanted revenge, didn’t you?”
Mardon insisted that was not the case.
“Ben destroyed my marriage, absolutely, but do I blame him for that? I’m no better than anyone else,” he said.
“I had my part in it, I recognise what I’ve done wrong.”
Mr Healy said Mardon claimed to have no harmful intent, yet had injected the poison “in the exact products” that a family — and a young child — would drink.
“That was an oversight on my part,” Mardon replied.
“I hadn’t thought a great deal about it, to be perfectly honest.”
Judge Rauf Soulio, who has presided over the trial in the absence of a jury, will hear closing submissions in April.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
Last Edited By: Liezel RD Mar 18 15 3:46 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Hiya Liezel wave
Wow!!! Although I obviously don't approve of this mans actions.....I do understand that punishments such as cutting vulnerable people off from everyone they have been allowed to mix with, can cause serious mental harm!!
He couldn't have been in a healthy mental state to do this to another human being (even if it was an elder !!), but I am surprised that this sort of reprisal hasn't been attempted more often by unstable members being disfellowshipped....
On another note.......how are you doing lovely lady?? It is so lovely to see you about, I hope you pop back in and let us know what has been happening with you smiley: smile
Hugs
Sam xxx
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I feel kinda bad that I find this kind of funny. lolsmiley: laugh
"Drinking of the kool-aid" in reverse.
It's fortunate that nobody died though.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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You know, I do kind of feel for this guy. I'm guessing he wasn't too stable mentally in the first place and being cut off from his entire world shoved him over the edge. I hope this guy gets some serious help while he's in prison. I'm just surprised, given hoow many mentally ill JWs I knew, that this sort of thing didn't happen more often.
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Yes I have always thought that the JW organization attracts it's fair share of mentally unhinged people! After that congregation brainwashing and theocratic routine all but finishes them off. If they get disfellowshipped over the edge they go!
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
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It's quite a story isn't it Liezel ....... I added it somewhere else in here but can't find it now. Either way .... he's a bit of a twat isn't he. Will be interesting to see what his sentence is and if it's a custodial sentence (highly unlikely) ... whether it's suspended or not.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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AndriaSyxx wrote:
It's quite a story isn't it Liezel ....... I added it somewhere else in here but can't find it now. Either way .... he's a bit of a twat isn't he. Will be interesting to see what his sentence is and if it's a custodial sentence (highly unlikely) ... whether it's suspended or not.It is quite a story indeed. He said he tasted it himself! So bizarre. It's like a crazy skit or something.
Replace people with Southpark characters and it's comedy.
Heck, there was an episode of a comedy called Seinfeld where a character (George) put something in his bosses' drink after he got fired.
Part of the plan (George's friend flirting with the boss at a party to distract him) put the boss in such a good mood he decided to hire George back.
By that time the poison was already in the drink and now George didn't want him to drink it...oops...
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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Good Morning,
I love watching these type programs. Yes, I can understand the frustration - I just don't understand how someone might actually carry out the deed. But, what the hell, I'm not to smart.
So now some former member - although he probably did suffer
from the JW - it's ok to try killing someone? I might send him a letter while he's in prison: there is much information out there for finding recovery before it gets so serious but apparently that would not be the case.
While I'd hope this is not some fun topic...perhaps I should give him my fence-riders information and they can have a relationship with how bad the world has treated themsmiley: mad
For all any of us have experienced, do will really need take such tragic actions? I'd guess there was more going on and sadly religious abuse is still taboo. Although, many have learned how to continue playing the victim and they really don't want help...all the more reason I want nothing to do with the JW,'
Thanks for posting...I know that if I really want knowing about his person - the research is mine.
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Liezel: This sad story is just another reminder for how once you associate with the JW - we know they do not encourage getting outside help...just believe in the WTBTS/Jehovah and your life can be perfect.
It's really a sad story and because I do jail/prison writing to inmates; it doesn't sound like this guy will get off lightly if found guilty.
IMO, it's not just the WTBTS Borg that is guilty ...it'a a lot of religions in general that do not always promoted anything out side of their religion; at the same time, it's not true for every religion.
Guess I'm just going to think about this and wish the best for one of our own that saw fit to do a most hateful thing towards another.
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I don't know how you would carry it out either. I think you would have to stew on it until it became such a poison in your system that you found a way to carry it out. It definitely wasn't impulse or a spur of the moment decision.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
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Another thing that surprised me was the fact that it went to court despite 1 Cor 6:6-8 which says ~
6 "but brother goes to court with brother and that before unbelievers? 7 Really then it means altogether s defeat for you that you are having lawsuits with one another. Why do you not rather let yourself be wronged? why do you not rather let yourself be defrauded? 8 To the contrary you wrong and defraud and your brothers at that.
So far as I know, in the congregation this always took precedence over the inflicted wound. It has certainly been the justification for keeping congregation paedophiles unreported to authorities.
I will post an update when the judgement is handed down.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
Last Edited By: Liezel RD Mar 22 15 2:41 PM. Edited 1 times.
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I'm still in "Is this for real or is it an Onion article" mode.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
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We just had a case here in the States, Las Vegas I think, where a guy went nuts and ran through an airport with a machete slashing at TSA agents, Police came and shot him and he died later in the hospital. My husband told me this morning he'd seen on the news that the guy was a Witness. No word on what pushed him over the edge or whether he had a history of mental issues.
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Maybe it sent to court because the state took over ... as it often does here in Australia Liezel. The complainant isn't always the one who instigates the court action .... although they may well have let this one go to court because it could be a useful 'local needs' tool to remind the blind faithful that the world IS indeed ending and that poor elder whatever-his-name-is and his family were subjected to persecution and torture at the hands of a disgruntled apostate! What a fearful lesson that would be!
I will wait with baited breath to see what the outcome is. My guess is that they'll slap a restraining order on him and he'll get a suspended sentence. I can't see them plonking him in jail .... although I could well be wrong, as I have been before!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Hi,
Didn't think about the fact that Police might have laid the charges. Of course that would be it.
I have a feeling there might be some jail time though.
We make a LIVING by what we get, but we make a LIFE by what we give. -Winston Churchill
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If he's now df'd, then he's not a "brother," so the other one can press charges. A jw from my old congregation got df'd for taking another bro to court for fraud. He got reinstated.
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"A jw from my old congregation got df'd for taking another bro to court for fraud. He got reinstated."
WHAAAAAT ????? Was there any action taken against the one accused of fraud? If he was convicted then HE was the one who broke the law and should be punished. Oh no
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We learn how the Borg protects those that need finding help. And then it' comes down to how they don't want help...after all-the church tells them what and how to believe. This gentleman will need support from many and it's not going coming from his church.
I've been corresponding my brother that is in jail...and another inmate.
You can never say anything that will shock me or other members. Keep posting and share. Love Lin and John...
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Born a JW, glad to be able to share my story!
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offlineMichelleH7
Born a JW, glad to be able to share my story!
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It is funny that I never found a forum such as this til now. I was born and raised a JW. A little background, my parents were and always will be extremely devout JWs. I have 2 sisters. My older sister is also a JW. My younger sister and I drifted away from it in our late teens. I still have a LOT of family that is deeply engrained in the JW life and beliefs, and will never 'stray' from it.
I have told this story many times, to many people. I knew when I was a child, very young in fact, that I was not interested in being "in the truth". In fact, I knew it wasn't the truth at all. I remember the exact moment when I realized it didn't make any sense to me, and that when I was old enough, I'd get away. At 6 years old, these thoughts were much simpler and less defined than they are now. But I knew them to be true, and I have not for a second thought that I was wrong.
It was not easy growing up being in my family. My parents were unnecessarily strict. When asked by those with no knowledge of the JWs, I often describe them as the extremes of the extremists. It was imprisoning, suffocating, even paralyzing to be raised in a land with too many rules, only to have more rules heaped on top of them. Most of these rules had no real founding. I believe my father always thought he understood things better than even the wackos who were interpreting the NWT. My sisters and I were not allowed to pierce our ears, were forced to have long hair (based on some scripture I can't recall... something about it being a woman's beauty or something.??)... etc. Small, obscure things, but odd nonetheless. And as all know, feeling like an individual in that religion is next to impossible... it was worse. In my last attempt to prove to myself what the truth really was (or wasn't), I did take a bible study with an older sister when I was 18 or 19. I'm not sure why I did it. Because I just stopped after a while, realizing that having an individual study wasn't different from any other bible-based gathering or study group. I still felt like a robot repeating the things I was 'supposed' to underline in paragraphs. After that, I think I told my parents for a while that I had questions about the truth. And eventually, it faded to nothing.
Needless to say, I never got baptized. I always feared that I was going to be forced into it, but somehow dodged it by half-assing most things. Fudging service hours (pretty sure I'm not the only one who ever did that), answering once in a while, and I did take the step to be an unbaptized publisher.
There are a lot of members on this forum who were true believers in the religion, and had these shocking revelations, through research or just, well, plain common sense, that this was not "the truth". I wish I could relate to that. I don't consider myself an extremely religious person. I was always skeptical. I think it was seeing that most other people didn't live the way the Witnesses did, and that these "guidelines" didn't really seem to change anything. People were still people. And Witnesses were no exception. They still lied, stole, cheated, got married, got divorced, eat, slept, worked, were born, lived, and died. Not that I'm saying everyone is evil. Everyone was just human. And I don't mean to put down anyone who has faith or does believe in the Bible. It just was never my thing.
My grandmother recently died. She was 93, and had been an exemplary JW til the day she died. When she passed, I knew I was going to have to do something I'd been dreading for years: step foot in a KH again. Around the same time, I decided to watch the series Big Love. It was random, but the beliefs of the Mormon church and their weird way of being that fake kind of "happy" all the time reminded me very much of the Witnesses (check out their website and then the JW one if you wanna compare). These things led me to look up some of the more known scriptures that the JWs use to swear their interpretation is more on point than other religions. It had been years, but reading without the rhetoric of the GB behind it, made me read them differently. I'm no scholar, and I'm not saying that I understand something that was written a bazillion years ago by some dude in a dress with a long beard, but... the words they choose to pull out and emphasize to make their points just seemed to fade into the entire sentence. The faithful and discreet slave scripture stands out to me more than others. It was just a story... about a master and how his slave served him well. I mean, I get it. But I guess my point is that the main ideas were being lost by narrowing in on these weird details.
Although I was never a believer and this was solely based on my skepticism, I later learned of the truth behind the truth. The true beginnings and root of the religion. The lies and the cover-ups. And the best part is that you don't even have to look outside the WT's literature. I mean, I've never done it, but you can probably walk into the library of any Kingdom Hall and find some pretty surprising things in the old books. Like I said, I've never done it. But maybe... I remember as a kid seeing a picture somewhere that (I believe it was) Bethel was decorated for Christmas. That they at one time celebrated Christmas. Man was I jealous I didn't live through that 'belief period'. Anyway, I think that it's awful what this religion does to people. It ruins lives. It takes lives away. That is the worst, saddest part. The people who believe it so whole-heartedly, and then the world is shattered.
It is a struggle every day to live in the "world" and keep yourself separated from the strange ideas you are taught by the JWs. It's really hard when you first break free. But every once in a while, when I say "Happy Birthday" or "Merry Christmas" or the forbidden "God Bless You!" when someone sneezes, I remember where I was and that I'm happy I'm not there anymore. It's hard because I can never be completely honest with my family about how I feel because it would completely crush them. The fact that I never got baptized is the sole reason they still speak to me. It's difficult to live what is essentially a lie because they will never know who I am, not really. I'm very thankful that this place exists where not only I but anyone can talk about this. Everyone's experience is different, and it's been great reading other Ex-JW's stories.
And to anyone who actually read through to this end line through all of my long-winded sentences and wordiness (if wordiness is a real word), I apologize. I'm kinda known for that. Thank you for letting me share my story with you.
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Hello and WELCOME MichelleH7! It's so good of you to join us and yes, I read through all your wordiness (sounds like a word to me 😀) and it was fine. I was going to say 'never say never' about your parents but after what you wrote...I knew witnesses like that and they're still trudging along in their 1980's long skirts and not too tight suits. If you haven't heard of 'tight pants Tony' you might not get the reference but he's one of the more ridiculous members of the current GB. Anyway, you sound like a pretty smart person and smart from early childhood to boot! I was born in and almost got out in my teens but for various reasons I went back and stayed stuck for another 25 years. Good for you not taking the plunge. By all means stay and get to know us and we you. It's a good bunch here.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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Michelle,
Great story, well written.
I went to see the Book of Mormon on Broadway and found that JWs and Mormons had a good bit in common, and none of it good.
You dodged a bullet not getting baptized. Wish I would have dodged that bullet.
Welcome!
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HELLPPP! Can you relate?
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offlinesummagirl
HELLPPP! Can you relate?
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Hi I'm 18 years old and I have been raised a Jehovah's witness throughout my 18 years. My mom is a pioneer and my dad is an elder. Both have been raised as a jw and are very zealous(if the gb said jump off a cliff they would!).
I was baptized at 16. I did it because my other friends were getting baptized, and my parents were pushing me;(even though they would think otherwise).
For years I have had my doubts about the religion, and for the past year I have been doing research on the religion. So far I have learned the disastrous doings of the GB. It makes me so sad how they manipulate people.
I feel guilty every time I go to the meetings. Lately I've been trying to avoid conversations with people at the hall. I feel like a hypocrite. When I come in the Kh I always have a big smile on my face, but I'm not happy. I feel so sad all the time. I feel like a bird in a cage just waiting to get out!
I have also developed severe social anxiety over the years. I think it's because all my live I've always had to make sure I acted the right way, looked the right way, and dressed the right way(remember no tight pants guys!) With being the elders daughter the pressure is always on to be perfect. I think one instance that set it off was when a jealous "sister" lied to the elders and said she saw me kissing a non witness guy at my school(Ohhhhh gasp!!!!)! She spread it around the whole congregation, and most people believed her. There has been other slander that has been hurled against my family, and the elders did nothing about it. They just watched the show unfold.
I've been trying to plan my "great" escape, but I get scared, confused, and lost. I don't have any friends outside of the religion. Most of my family live in other states. I live in the middle of nowhere( my parents thought thought it would be a good idea to move where "the need was greater").
My mom has a medical condition and my dad is stressed out all the time, and I hate just thinking about adding to that stress. I really care for my parents and I know they want me to go to bethel(currently go to Warwick), and be a missionary in Africa, but that kind of life is not for me! I don't want to be the governing bodies "robot" for the rest of my life.
My goal is to start a blog to offer help to teens and adults ,like me, that feel stuck and want to escape from this poisonous religion. I have found a lot of inspiration from Apostate Chick and jw survey website. I have also found a lot of help from exjw forums like these.
So this is my story. I hope others can relate to it and offer some advice!
😀😀😀
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summagirl wrote:
Hi I'm 18 years old and I have been raised a Jehovah's witness throughout my 18 years. My mom is a pioneer and my dad is an elder. Both have been raised as a jw and are very zealous(if the gb said jump off a cliff they would!).
I was baptized at 16. I did it because my other friends were getting baptized, and my parents were pushing me;(even though they would think otherwise).
For years I have had my doubts about the religion, and for the past year I have been doing research on the religion. So far I have learned the disastrous doings of the GB. It makes me so sad how they manipulate people.
I feel guilty every time I go to the meetings. Lately I've been trying to avoid conversations with people at the hall. I feel like a hypocrite. When I come in the Kh I always have a big smile on my face, but I'm not happy. I feel so sad all the time. I feel like a bird in a cage just waiting to get out!
I have also developed severe social anxiety over the years. I think it's because all my live I've always had to make sure I acted the right way, looked the right way, and dressed the right way(remember no tight pants guys!) With being the elders daughter the pressure is always on to be perfect. I think one instance that set it off was when a jealous "sister" lied to the elders and said she saw me kissing a non witness guy at my school(Ohhhhh gasp!!!!)! She spread it around the whole congregation, and most people believed her. There has been other slander that has been hurled against my family, and the elders did nothing about it. They just watched the show unfold.
I've been trying to plan my "great" escape, but I get scared, confused, and lost. I don't have any friends outside of the religion. Most of my family live in other states. I live in the middle of nowhere( my parents thought thought it would be a good idea to move where "the need was greater").
My mom has a medical condition and my dad is stressed out all the time, and I hate just thinking about adding to that stress. I really care for my parents and I know they want me to go to bethel(currently go to Warwick), and be a missionary in Africa, but that kind of life is not for me! I don't want to be the governing bodies "robot" for the rest of my life.
My goal is to start a blog to offer help to teens and adults ,like me, that feel stuck and want to escape from this poisonous religion. I have found a lot of inspiration from Apostate Chick and jw survey website. I have also found a lot of help from exjw forums like these.
So this is my story. I hope others can relate to it and offer some advice!
😀😀😀Hi there Summagirl and welcome ....
Boy you lucked out with having a pioneering mother and an elder for a father! My advice to you would be to bide your time, keep reading and researching ..... and be careful with a blog in case someone recognises you and dobs you into your parents, or to the other elders in your hall. That's the last thing you want. You haven't said whether you're still in school or working ..... either way ..... you'll have normal people around you than you can get to know. Losing the guilt about how your parents will react is another thing to work on. You are not going to add stress to their lives by choosing a different path to what they want for you ..... therefore if they do get stressed it is their choice to add more stress. If you have the type of parents you can talk to freely ...... let them know that you're having a few doubts at the moment and need some time to clear your head and that you will ask them for help when you're ready (or if you're ready, although I would say that!). If they're not the kind of parents you can tall freely too ..... stay quiet until you've worked out how you really feel about it all. If you are still living at home ...... it won't be as easy for to you make a clean break but at least you can plan ahead!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHumbleLove
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Mar 18 15 11:11 PM
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Welcome to the forum Summagirl,
I was never a JW I came here looking for answers to questions myself. I think it's great that you care about your parents and don't want to add extra stress to their lives. If you are planning your "great escape," do you have a time frame in mind? You were saying that your parents want you to be a missionary in Africa. How soon were they expecting you to do that?
If you have time to plan, I would suggest the first thing you do is get a job if that's possible. You say you live in the middle of nowhere so I don't know if that means it would be very hard to get a job. An escape will be
easier to do if you have a way to support yourself. Have you asked yourself are you ready to give up your parents? Would they shun you if you left?
I think it's commendable that you want to start a blog to offer help to teens and adults like you. I agree with Andria be very careful if you decide to do this. You might want to wait until after the "great escape" to start the blog.
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Sounds like your realllllllly stuck between a rock and a hard place. Elder dad, pioneer mom, maybe a small town with the usual gossip mill. You would have a hard time fading in your situation. So yes see if you can find a job so you can eventually move out. If the job situation doesn't look very promising I have a really wild and crazy and strange idea......go ahead and volunteer and go to bethel....nuts, this will get you away from the immediate and constant pressure of your elder dad and pioneer mom and microscope of the congregation, this will get you a opportunity to learn a new skill or two, (I hear they may be willing to help pay for becoming a lawyer), help you to meet new friends, make new acquaintances etc and eventually will get you out of your house and into the world. Because your young, take advantage of the watchtower, use them for your own gain and benefit.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Last Edited By: birdwoman2 Mar 23 15 2:59 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCeili
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Hello summagirl,
There is two young girls, one about your age, that are born-ins to a very zealous mother that I know, who are not run-of-the-mills JWs, yet stuck in the same way you are with living in the sticks, having all JW friends etc. I always thought if someone else their own age would be reaching out to them, there might be a doorway...so this could work both ways for you, if you could find a way to be in contact with other teenagers, inside and outside, minding Andria's advice on proceeding with care.
Since I am a different generation, there is also a gap provided by the fast-moving technical innovations that nowadays seem to play a major role in teenagers lives...smiley: tongue and seemingly, the organisation wants a share of that now that the internet is all the hype...!
I do remember though what it was like to be a teenager, LOL! So how about you start making some friends your age, perhaps online, through, say, a doggie forum?? Nice and easy, in a way, where noone can recognize you. Join an internet book club, etc. Or via music?
A pen-pal? Oops, maybe too oldfashioned haha
Your image about a bird in a cage stayed with me. Know what, it's your birth right to fly freely.
Love, Ceilixx
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HI summagirl
I definitely relate to your feeling of suffocation in that situation. I don't have a lot of advice other than to encourage you to keep thinking about how you're going to exit. College might be an option that others haven't mentioned. Would your parents be willing to support you at all? Sometimes there's financial aid, scholarships, or work-studies that you can apply for.
Don't feel bad if it takes you a while to succeed in steering your life against a contrary current. It's more important to start somewhere or else you're just going to keep flowing in a direction you don't want to go.
I wish you all the best in your efforts.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinesg75
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Welcome, summagirl. I definitely relate to where you're at. I was about your age when my doubts got too loud for me to ignore any longer. Like you, I was baptized too dang young to know what I was really doing. By the time I realized what I'd gotten into, I was caught in the trap. The guilt was intense. I felt like a horrible person because I couldn't MAKE myself be a perfect little JW. I'd spent my whole life pretending and feeling like my true self was being slowly strangled. On top of it all, I hated myself for being a hypocrite, even though I didn't really have any choice. I came very close to killing myself because I was so depressed and hurting so bad. It got better after I got my own place and moved out of my mom's house. Once I was on my own, Mom couldn't threaten to kick me out if I didn't keep going to the Hall and all that. You probably have it a lot worse than I did because I wasn't an elders daughter. I know it's hell right now, but please remember things can change. Don't be too hard on yourself because right now you don't have a choice. If you're able, try to get a job and start saving up for your new life. Getting a job was good for me since it exposed me to non-JWs that I was able to form friendships with. There's a whole big, beautiful world out there, sweetie. Hang in there a little longer and remember we're always here for you. Hope we see a lot more of you.
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I know what you mean, yep they will pick the males first for their legal training, but that also means that they will pick females to be their helpers. And with all the females filing lawsuits against them, there is a chance they will eventually want a female attorney fighting on their behalf. Of course just so they can save face and put up the front that their legal department doesn't have gender discrimination issue's.
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Summagirl,
I'm a 4th gen born in JW. I left my completely train-wreck dysfunctional JW family in the early 80's. It can be done.. you will be just fine. Just breathe! Now we have internet, free access to real information.
You have opportunity now to make much better life choices than those who left the org earlier, who were all without any impartial information or support. Take full advantage.
Locutus.
Last Edited By: Locutus Mar 19 15 8:02 PM. Edited 1 times.
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I just want to say WELCOME! Summagirl.
It is a plus that you are young. I didn't escape until I was 41 and half my life was gone. Still, it's been good even with the 'catching up' I had to do. You won't have to catch up much. Yes, get a job and go easy and steady ahead.
My user name is a play on the old (old) song Whitebird. The words went....'white bird must fly or she will die'.
Now if the thought of dying in that messed up religious cage doesn't suit you, by all means...FLY!!!
The world isn't the awful place we were told it was. Yes there are awful things out there but there are awful things within Jehovah's 'happy' (not) organization, too. Find good people to hang out with and in time you can show by your success that your choice to leave was the right one. Living well is the best...well, revenge...but also answer to the question 'where else will you go to?'.
Keep reading. There's already been some good ideas given and there will be more.
And (((summagirl))). This is a good place for cyber hugs, too.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Hello and welcome, Summa. If I were you, I would talk my parents in to letting me go to college. Even the local community college to start with. There have been others on here who had to pretend to still be a jw while living at home with parents. It's just something some have to do. Don't feel guilty about it, it's not your fault you have to do that. Some have kind of looked at themselves as being able to report back to us some of the current things being said at meetings, to give us an idea what's the new trends, things like that. Just remember, you are not being a hypocrite, you are doing what you have to for the time being. It's the religion that puts people in that situation. Just go along with the role while you gradually plan your exit, either by going to college so you can then later support yourself and move out, or by getting a job and being able to get out on your own eventually. You will eventually get out. Others on this board started out like you and now, six years later after me coming to this board, those others have gotten out. Try to hang in there. You can always come here to vent. Wishing you well.
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Hello there and welcome :-)
As the others have said, you are still so young and have your whole life ahead of you!! So you must just make sure that you do what is right for you, and also make sure the timing is right!!
It is so much easier to distance yourself from the religion when you are independent of your parents....while you live under the same roof, unfortunately it means that you may have to bide your time, rather than just let out everything you now think about the way you were raised....
By all means plan your escape, but just be glad that you have escaped mentally at least.....and therefore the organisation no longer holds a threat....dealing with your parents disappointment may be another matter!! Elders especially are expected to have children that can be held up as a jw 'example' for all the minions to follow....
So it won't be easy whenever you make your stand....but tbh, once you know in your heart that its a crock of crap, you are free of the guilt-trip!!
Sam
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlinematitalica
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Or you could just walk into your local Wal-Mart and when they announce something over the speaker you could grab your ears, fall to the ground and start screaming, 'the voices won't stop'. This might land you in a little room away from the family and the jw's.
Just kiddingbanana dance
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@matt....when I read your post I had a pretty good laugh. Wouldn't it be nice if an escape were that easy!
status offlinepunkofnice
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'allo Summer. Blimey, it's a rollercoaster with you ay....you poor gal.
Time moves on and we find our level like water.....and you will find yours. Things won't always be like this.
Live prosp and longer.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineMichelleH7
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Hello Summagirl! You sound a lot like me at your age. I had very strict JW parents, and wanted to be free like you couldn't believe (or you probably can). And... now, at 32, I am. It's not a short road, or an easy road. But the amazing news is, the road is THERE. There is a lot of good advice here. If you review what everyone is saying, the key to your freedom is to slowly start integrating yourself into the world. Getting a job is the most common thing everyone here has said, and starting your path to financial freedom is the first step. Going to college is a good idea, but if your parents are as strict as mine, then they may be completely against college. That's ok, too. Once again, get a job. Or another idea is to make a list of harmless activities that you can become a part of. Some of the others mentioned book clubs, you can try joining a gym, or yoga or aerobics classes, learn to play an instrument(so you can play songs from "Singing Praises to Jehovah"lol), etc. I'm out of the JW loop, so no clue if yoga is "bad" or not... Anyway. Make a list of things, and you're sure to find something.
And hang in there. You can do it.
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Darwyn George story
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offlineDarwyng
Darwyn George story
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Mar 25 15 8:28 PM
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I was born JW unti I witnessed my father beating the crap out of my mother. I woke up the next morning to find all the furniture broken. (LatersI would find out why)
i was the "it" I was forgotten and it was common knowledge that I was worth nothing, partially due to a mentally ill mother, whom hated daughters,;wanted only sons. I was a disappointment. It was then that I would wake up to fights between them sexual in nature. At the time I was only 3-6 years old and still didn't understand.
My fathers rapid perversions were becoming more and more overt. My mothers hatred grew for me. I had always believed that my father was disfellowshipped for showing up drunk, THAT was not the case. That fight so many year earlier was about him molesting a 13 year old young girl in the congregation. He was disfellowshipped, and so were we. I remembered being happy there even though I didn't really know what it was.
As time pasted, my mother and father fought more and it was always about my father and many women and young girls. My father just beat her mercilously.
At 11 or 12 my father molested my friend on a sleepover, I was there and witnessed the whole thing.
As as soon as I reached puberty I was mercilessly beaten by my mother who accused me of having sex with my father. The beatings were daily and lasted 3-4 years. As I said I was the "it" my mother would antagonize my brothers to beat me for her pleasure.
By this time I was already trying to commit suicide by slitting my wrists and taking bottles of aspirin. I truly wanted a way out and death was my best way. My mother joined me by forcing 2 bottles of aspirins down my throat forcing water in my mouth to accomplish this. I went to school crying everyday because she took pleasure in waking me up by grabbing my hair and throwing me on the hardwood floors. The best was still to come. When my father returned home she would tell him that I woke up like a "bitch" so he would beat then ground me.
I Finally left home to drugs, alcohol, permiscuity, low selfesteme, 2 illegitamite children and every relationship was abusive.
To-date, I have had no contact with her in 23 years, however I can now sympathize with her but forgiveness comes with ownership.
I have had no contact with him since 2010 when I began recalling the vile things he did to my 11 year old friend and his lack of responsibility in his marriage and to his children.
Im self destructive. I've been to way too much therapy and yet I'm still bound by memories.
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status offlinesolitaire
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Mar 26 15 4:35 AM
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Hello there Darwyn and welcome :-)
That was so heart wrenching to read.......no child should have to go through such brutal treatment.......being born into the religion is difficult enough, without the added abuse that you suffered because of your parents dysfuntional relationship!!
We can never get those lost childhoods back, but we can try our best to make the most of the life we have........I can't pretend to understand the legacy that your upbringing has had on you....all I have found is that being able to share with others can definitely have a cathartic effect...
There are others here who have suffered various forms of abuse and therefore they may have more helpful input.......but I do know that being brave enough to share your traumatic experiences can only be a good thing!! You are still here to tell your story, so that makes you a survivor....and you are now part of a very large group of fellow survivors!!
I'm glad you found our site, and look forward to knowing you better smiley: smile
Hugs
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlinepunkofnice
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Mar 26 15 5:08 AM
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Strewth, mate. You've been up against it for a long time. I am so sorry you had to deal with all of that. Keep your chin up. As we Brits are supposed to say (but don't really), keep a stiff upper lip. Soldier on.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineHumbleLove
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Mar 26 15 7:48 AM
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Welcome to the forum Darwyn,
It was very brave of you to share your experiences growing up as a child. I am sorry you went through that nightmare. I am sorry that you feel self-destructive and bound by bad memories. The fact that you posted here on the site means that you haven't given up and want to feel better. And that is truly commendable that you are still trying after many bad experiences.
If therapy hasn't been working out for you, then may I suggest trying to take your mind off the past by enjoying things in life that make you laugh. A funny movie or a good book. It may not work in its entirety but at least it will help get your mind off the past trauma for a little while.
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The enormity of this whole thing is to much for anyone to bear at one time in any sort of thought process.
I was given good advice today. Take your life back one step at a time, breaking apart the process, mastering something like improving your health, or finding something fun and healthful to enjoy, each thing slowly, ..until the enormity is not quite so enormous anymore. Dealing with your needs, one step at a time.
Take your life back, and make your life what you want it to be. It is a long process, but it is worth it. YOU are so worth it. The strength you must have just to come to this board and post, shows how much incredible strength you still have. You have power even when you feel like there is none left.
One step at a time, one healthy habit, enjoyment, productive choice at a time. Piece by piece, you can begin to regain what all that incredible pain inflicted upon you, took away from you.
status offlineCacky
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Welcome to the board. I'm sorry for what you've gone through. You are really struggling. I wish you well.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hello again Darwyn .... my second 'hello' in almost as many minutes!
It is obvious from your introductory post that you have not lived in an environment of love and peace. Being physically, mentally and emotionally abused is awful ...... being in the same room when sexual abuse of your friend occurred must have been the final nail in the emotional coffin for you. NO child should be subjected to that kind of treatment ... ever. It would be something totally foreign to many people but it is not uncommon nor is it unheard of. Just wrong on so many levels.
From what you have added, it is quite clear to see that both your parents had issues of their own way before they met one another and way before you were born. It is not the right of a parent to abuse a child in any way and yet some parents seem to think it's fine. Your dad deserved to be kicked out of his religion for his bad behaviour. He should have been officially charged with child sexual abuse but that's another matter entirely ..... we all know how the WBTS likes to handle its cases of child abuse. Denial!
That aside ... you are not responsible for how your mother or father behave. You are now an adult yourself and even though they are your parents, you don't have to like them. You don't have to rekindle a relationship at all unless it's what you want and what you can cope with. Your parents were already damaged ... the religion made things worse as it made them fell guilty and that guilt was then transferred to everyone else around them. It was your parents way of not having to deal with their own issues .... point the finger of blame elsewhere and abusing you was their own cowardly way of ignoring the facts.
You however can beat them at their own game and you already have. You have kept your distance for your own sanity and I'm assuming for the sanity of your two kids too. That takes courage. While you may sympathise with your mother ... you do not have to forgive her nor your father for what they have done to you. They actively and willingly chose to hurt you. Your dad actively and willingly chose to hurt you and the other young people he has had dealings with over the years. It is a choice for a person to be abusive and violent. Alcohol and drugs may make them behave with less filtering ... but abusive people choose to be abusive. You can break that cycle of abuse by seeing it for what it is. As a child you are not responsible for how your parents treated you ....... you have grown up in a dreadful household and regardless of your own rebellion or ways of coping afterwards ...... you've done bloody good to keep on going.
The memories will always be a part of your psyche. Memories that powerful are very hard to shake and even if someone says that in time they will fade ... they don't actually go away. I see that as a positive thing. Some of my more horrific memories from being molested (short term) by a young jdub teen and then being in a relationship of domestic violence are just too awful to think about sometimes ...... with flashbacks etc it can be worse .... BUT ..... they are also a reminder ot me of how far I have come! YOU have come a long way too even if you can't yet see that.
Memories or not .... you don't need to continue being self-destructive if you don't wish to. That you can control if you are patient with yourself. Rather than lash out at yourself and hurt yourself in the process ..... try 'do the turtle' as my kids would say. In our West Aussie primary schools ... they have 'the turtle' method for kids to cope and I believe it works for adults too. If something upsets or worries you ... rather than go down the fight or flight path ....... 'the turtle' method is to stop .... breathe .... and think. Stopping gives you time to breath ... breathing gives you time to think. Not sure if that makes sense but it has worked for both my boys ... specially the younger one (he's 13 now) as he has always been of the panic and flight variety.
If you go to that dark place after a flashback or if you've been dwelling on things ....... that's when you need to stop. If it means getting up and walking around in circles for a bit, or grabbing an apple and munching ... or a drink and taking long slow sips ............... whatever works. Sometimes the act of drinking water is enough for us to catch our thoughts and stop ourselves from doing something we don't really want to be doing. Your parents have never cared whether you are hurting or not ..... but you have cared for you. Your feelings are far more important than theirs. I'm not sure if I have offered any real help to you ..... but we are here for you. Ask whatever you want ... vent whatever you want. You are amongst a bunch of people who 'know'.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
Last Edited By: AndriaSyxx 3 days ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlineKBG
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Darwyn,
What a strong person you are to come through such a terrible household environment. All the crap I had to deal with in life, I didn't have anything like that in my home.
Every child should be cherished. I'm so sorry you didn't have the childhood you deserved. Know that you are a person of worth and you should have had a much more joyous and secure home life.
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I'm a father first!
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offlineFatherFirst
I'm a father first!
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Mar 14 15 11:43 PM
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I was raised and spent most of my life a jw before I was disassociated, because I refused to stop seeing a non witness girl. I must say their decision to cut me off from my family and friends although initially traumatic ended up being the biggest blessing in disguise of my life. It allowed me to shed the indoctrinated fear of looking at both sides of the argument. After doing my own extensive research I was able to eventually wake up to the inconsistencies, misleadings, misquotations, undue influence, even my own ingrained judging attitude towards anyone who wasn't involved with the organization of my birth, whose policies are alone responsible for destroying families (not the shunned ones personal decisions in life) which we all are entitled to. Now a father myself, I find my daughter is the light of my life. I simply can't imagine ever turning her away because we may not agree on some theological point. Or god forbid being a victim of the two witness rule, where in sexual abuse cases within the organization if the victim is the only witness to the abuse (as is the case in most sexual abuse cases) and the accused denies the allegation, no credence is given to the abuse claim. In such cases the heads of the congregation or elders are instructed by their legal department and certain publications of the society to tell the victim and family to leave things in Jehovah's hands and not get secular authorities involved, in essence protecting the abuser in order to protect their reputation as a morally clean society. Or again perish the thought, having to watch my baby girl on a hospital bed where if a blood transfusion was needed to save her life, I would be expected to watch her take her last breath before allowing her to have a transfusion, because of a blood refusal policy which causes the death of many Witnesses each year (adult and child alike). It makes me wonder if they're aware of the fact that there is around one million white blood cells in just one drop of breast milk. As far as I know they allow witness mothers to breast feed their children don't they? How could the intake of blood be such a sin when it's clearly a part of our loving gods natural design, especially when it's used to save a life not just sustaining it? Neither could I imagine discouraging her from educating herself, when the time comes telling her that college is dangerous. Just as Anthony Morris— (one of the governing body members) said. "the better the institution is, the more dangerous it is". And yes they do believe and teach that if your not a witness you will be slaughtered with the other 99.9% of the population at armageddon, that being just one of many unhealthy even mentally and emotionally damaging doctrines they teach. I wholeheartedly believe that any group of any kind that admonishes their members to stay away from those who don't agree with them, not even considering what they have to say is unhealthy, hypocritical, and should raise a HUGE RED FLAG! For example I can guarantee If a witness came to your door and you tried to offer them some different literature to consider, they would without hesitation turn it down looking at you as nothing more than a stumbling block sent by the devil himself. I for one am thankful to now have true Christian freedom (John 8: 32)—Freedom to love unconditionally, freedom from irrational fear, guilt, or shame, from the worry of inadequacy, from undue influence, from an ingrained prejudging attitude towards anyone not involved with that society, from indoctrination, and above all, the freedom to raise my daughter to be the kind of person I believe a truly loving god would want her to be. For although I remain an estranged son, I'm a father first!
status offlineHumbleLove
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Welcome to the forum cmypsp
I am sorry that you are an estranged son. Yes, you are a father first who cares about the welfare of your daughter. The blood transfusion refusal policy isn't a good one, I agree. It's interesting how you brought up the fact there are around
one million white blood cells in just one drop of breast milk. I wonder if anybody ever wrote a letter to the GB and mentioned that fact....maybe it's not a good idea to mention it. More doctrines that aren't healthy wouldn't be a good thing. It's hard
to know how the GB would react to information. But, you are right about witnesses who go door to door they don't want to hear what you have to say. As you say they consider it a stumbling block sent by the devil himself.
I, myself try to plant seeds of doubt in JW's. I don't know if I have had any success yet but I am surely giving it a try.
status offlinesolitaire
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Hello there cympsp and welcome :-)
For although I remain an estranged son, I'm a father first!
Your daughter is one lucky girl!! If only our own parents had the same attitude there would have been happier times for us all.......I still find it almost impossible to believe that a religion can damage that special bond of unconditional love for a child (or a parent, cos it is also happening vice-versa)
But then we should never underestimate the power of control through fear!! I know from my own experience how deep that mind control runs.......I have seen my own uber-jw mother weeping because of my loneliness as a child, yet sticking to the jw 'rules', when she had the capabilities of ending that unhappiness........because she was more concerned with my 'long-term' eternal life, than the 'short-term' wordly associations.... smiley: ohwell
I'm sorry that your parents are also in thrall of the organisation, to the detriment of a relationship with their son........because neither of you are winners!! I am sure that they have many times where they 'lean on jehovah' to take away the pain of going against their natural parental love for you......
Well done for being brave enough to stop this pattern with your own child.......thankfully, she will never have to come second to religious dogma, or be afraid to voice her own opinions for fear of losing your love!!
Good to have you here
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
Last Edited By: solitaire Mar 15 15 9:57 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCacky
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Hello and welcome to the board, Cympsp. Nice to meet yet another one who has got out of that cult alive.
status offlineGurgi
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Hi and
You're able to have a balanced outlook which by reading your views is benefiting both you and your daughter whom you very clearly love.
Since you were brought up as a JW, i'm going to guess that allowing your daughter the freedom to make up her own mind and raising her with such freedom is both an easy thing for you to want to do and an utter joy to be a part of too?
I'm a father myself my daughter is 15. I was brought u as a JW too.
I share a wonderful relationship with my daughter. The other week my daughter wanted to talk to me about 'something'. She told me that she likes boys and girls. I just said, "are you happy with that?" - she said, "yeah" - "Then that's all that matters", i said. My daughter can and does talk to me about anything she wants, something you, I and thousands of others raised as JW's couldn't (and still cannot) do with our own parents for fear of being cut off, shunned, ect.
My parents will never know the kind of relationship i have with my daughter. Never. You have something wonderful too and so does your daughter. The very best of wishes to you both.
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Welcome! Your daughter is very lucky to have a good relationship with you. I wish my own father could have been a bigger part of my life growing up. He wasn't a JW; he lost contact with his kids after he and my mom divorced. Once lost, there's no getting those years back.
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Hi and welcome ... you should have taken on FatherFirst as your username!
It's absolutely wonderful that you have made a new life for yourself outside of the restricted religious lifestyle you were once part of ... and totally awesome that your daughter is growing up without the heavy oppressiveness that the WBTS tends to dump on top of our little ones. Good for you and lucky girl to have a dad who puts her first and not the religion!
Yes the WBTS does have many mums who breastfeed their babies and I'm sure they would come up with some kind of 'yes ... well it's Jehovah's way to feed his babies ...' kind of logic to support it. I personally could never stand back and allow either of my boys to die from MY refusal of a blood transfusion ... kids aren't given that choice as it's the parents who hold the legal right (until a certain age). Sadly the same cannot have been said for my chances of life had I needed a transfusion as a child ..... my parents would most certainly have declined.
It is good you have found comfort in your own chosen faith and that you are happier. For me .... despite looking at various types of religious faiths, I have ended up an atheist as I just cannot accept the whole god thing. We are all different however and that's a good thing .... being free from the WBTS gives us all the chance to walk our own path in life and even if we don't agree with how others live .... we can at least now accept it is their choice. The WBTS doesn't allow nor encourage acceptance ......
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineFatherFirst
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excellent idea AndriaSyxx, had to do that thanx
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Wow you were quick!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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hello from africa
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offlinebreathagain
hello from africa
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Jul 24 12 7:02 AM
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Hello everyone. I am going to make this short.You cannot imagine how terrified i am while writing this.Basically a bad JW marriage led to my eyes being opened.Never in a million years did i ever think i would find my self here.What a revelation it has been. Still in the bad marriage and still in the truth i do not have courage to walk out.I desperately want to so that i can breath again.I need your support.Thanks again.
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Hello. Thanks for coming here and leaving this message for us. I am so sorry that you are terrified. You don't deserve to be. A lot of other people here have had to endure being terrified, too.
It's good to hear your eyes are opened. I'm just sorry about the painful experience you are in. You deserve the encouragement and support you need, so that you can do what you need to do. I hope you find it, in this place.
Even though your message is short, it says so much. Please continue to come here, because people are interested in helping.
Best wishes to you.
status offlinenonjwspouse
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Breathagain it is good you are coming here to this forum. You will receive wonderful support.
Life can throw huge curve balls, but then it settles again. Remember, nothing is forever. You will get through this.
Take care of yourself.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Breath Again...So happy seeing you post.
I'm one of the first too question some that post for the first time because they aren't serious about recovery. I'm still learning.
I've always wanted visiting your Country. At the same time, our governement has told us how unsafe it is.
I'm also one from the USA that try understand, when we're finished with politics/religion. We all love each other and want helping.
This is the issue of religious abuse. Because we've all dealt with the Borg...in most any country...it's the same. I'm just learning how this works, doing something for other countries. We really need see the end of political hatred - that want keeping us at odds....although we have families involved.
Again, I'm happy you posted. It takes courage,
LIN.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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This is howI gauge the serious...You come back and share.
You don't shame the rest of us for believing differntly...you aren't judging us according to how ....
It is time for time out...and I'll check in later with you.
status offlinecobaltcupcake
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Welcome Breathagain! I wish I could reach out and give you a big hug. We all understand the beginning stages of realizing you need to get out and the fear of what will happen.
One thing to remember is that what the Society has told you about "apostates" is not true. Just a quick read through some of the threads in this forum will convince you of that.
We want to help you. Please be strong and feel the love and support coming your way.Hug
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status offlineCacky
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Welcome to the board. I hope you continue to visit and learn more about the religion. Try to calm down, if you can't make changes in your life that you want and need to make, begin simply by imagining whatever changes you want. They say if you visualize what it is you want, your mind will subconsciously help you make decisions that will eventually lead you to where you want to be. Give yourself time to figure things out and you can gradually work your way out of your situation. I may not happen overnight, but it will happen and you can make it happen. I wish you well.
Cathy
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Hello there and welcome :-)
You need to take your own username advice, and breathe again!! There is a life after the religion, but at this time you must be so confused and unhappy and frightened........
I am sorry that your marriage has been a bad experience, but if it enables you to finally open your eyes and look honestly at the organisation, then it will inevitably be a positive thing!!
I also admire your bravery in coming here and posting, we all know how hard that first time is, but I am so glad that you did...........cos you will realise that you are no longer alone.........there are so many here who understand how you must be feeling, and can empathise with your feelings.....
I hope you come back and chat some more, believe me being able finally to say what you feel can be a huge step forward in beginning to take back control of your life!!
Hugs
Sam x
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status offline2true
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Hi breatheagain to the forum.
One step at a time. It was a huge jump for me just to look on these apostate websites. I remember how terrified I was when I first posted on this forum. It was a real heart-pounding-sweaty-fingers moment. But I did it and over a year later I'm out!
You WILL find the courage to walk out. It just takes time.
You have taken a huge step by posting here. Well done.
"The more I advance into older age and the more imminent the end of life becomes, the more convinced I am that the most valuable thing any of us can leave behind is a moral legacy, and that the worth of that moral legacy will be determined by the principles for which we have stood, principles that can never be sacrificed or rationalized away in the interests of expediency. Those principles are . . . . . , integrity to truth, and compassionate concern for others, not as part of a favored system, but as individuals."
Raymond Franz 2004
status offlinenevermind
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Welcome to the board
Perhaps you would like to share your story with us, it can be very cathartic.
Good luck and stop by again
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Welcome! Hope to hear more about you. You'll find lots of non - judgemental support here
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Welcome Breathagain. You have taken a grand step in coming here. It shows you are prepared to take action.
Don't worry, no one will know who you are unless you reveal it.
For a start and for your own healing try this little technique; don't refer to it as 'the truth'........it isn't.
1. No one can be in 'the truth' because truth is a concept not something you can own or reside within.
2. The term 'the Truth' is a powerful example of loaded language. Loaded language are words that trick the brain into a thought pattern. In this case you are tricked into thinking that watchtower corporation are the one true way when they are not.
I hope you are able to get out of your awful marriage. I don't know how it works where you are as far as escaping. Don't give up.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineFreeForOnce
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Hi Breathe Again!
My thoughts are with you and I admire your bravery in reaching out under such circumstances.
~Free
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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breathagain wrote:
Hello everyone. I am going to make this short.You cannot imagine how terrified i am while writing this.Basically a bad JW marriage led to my eyes being opened.Never in a million years did i ever think i would find my self here.What a revelation it has been. Still in the bad marriage and still in the truth i do not have courage to walk out.I desperately want to so that i can breath again.I need your support.Thanks again.
Hi there Breathagain ... and welcome to the forum
It's always a bit scary coming into a forum like this for the first time ... specially one full of people who will instinctively know how you're feeling and what you've been through!!!! Next time you pop in it will be easier ... and easier again the next visit ...... until you get to the point it'll be like dropping into a friend's house having a chat ..... minus the spoken word
Great to have you with us!
"Walk your life without fear.
Walk strong."
~ advice from Rafaela of the Raramuri - Mexico ~
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I have some information for you are you still on this site? I just joined and red your post. Please let me know.
Randy
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I am not sure you will get a reply Randy .....
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineGoverning Bumbaclots
You Are Not Alone(think Michael Jackson song:)! #16 [-]
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Welcome! Even though I have been free from the Just Worried(JW) cult for a good while now, I am new to this forum as well. If you dare, and engage yourself in this forum you will read MANY stories of people's JW experience. We ex JWs are quite a talented, funny and sincerely honest group. It is very soul enriching in my humble opinion. Just know that you are not alone and we are here for you. Try not to feel terrified. God has already worked this out for you even if YOU haven't. Stay strong, and don't be anyone's object of torture. See your posts soon!
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Gov, up until Scottfree's post, the posts were all from 2012, so I don't think the person has returned to this site. At least she/he hasn't posted anymore.
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Such a pity we didn't hear more from breathagain.... Let's hope he/she is at least still reading the forums.
I clearly remember my fear when I first posted on this site. I thought I was going to pass out.
Did anyone else feel like that?
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I didn't feel that way myself lovely Magenta of the Gerbera ........... however I do remember breathing a sigh of relief knowing that I wasn't the only person who had similar feelings about being raised in a jdub family without being given a choice about! How have you been sweet cheeks? No further dramas with the dubbles from your end of the world I hope!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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My JW family baptising their babies
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offlineFence Setter
My JW family baptising their babies
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Nov 24 14 8:37 AM
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I just saw on Instagram that my little nephew was Baptized at the last JW Convention. He's 7 or 8!!! He was shorter than the hand rail going up to the baptism pool. I actually got sick to my stomach thinking how this cult will hold this contract, he entered into at such a young age, against him the rest of his life. They have locked him in. JW's slander Cathlics for infant baptism, but they do this to children that are just old enough to rememer but not old enough to fully understand. This is what JW's did to my husband too and the pain it has caused is soon deep it may never heal. A child wants to please mommy and daddy because they want their love and to see a smile from their parent makes them feel loved. So ofcourse they will get baptised. It would be fine at any age if there wasn't a life long contract with an organization that came along with it that will destroy your life if you ever want out of it. smiley: frown
Last Edited By: Fence Setter Nov 24 14 9:01 AM. Edited 1 time.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Hi, Fence-Sitter. Good to see you continue posting.
So now the JW's are baptizing at that young age? Hell, I thought it was bad in my generation with being pressured as a teenager and now they are going after even those younger?smiley: mad
Sounds much like the Mormon with how they say at age 8 - that's the age of accountability! Who the hell made up that rule?smiley: mad
I do understand all to well; the rules are made up from idiot control freaks that others will follow because they believe most anything told them from those running the show. And what a show it is! It shows the world how controlling and unforgiving they are and years later when anyone wakes up to how insane the religion is - well, we know how that plays out.
The JW's are hypocrites in the extreme because they have bad-mouthed every other religion for years and now it easy to witness how they are doing the same.
Is it really any wonder why people hate that religionsmiley: frown
status offlineCacky
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Nov 24 14 6:42 PM
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I've known of one as young as nine get baptized. It's terrible.
status offlinealexia
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Wow! I think the youngest I've seen was maybe 11 or 12. In my generation (I'm 36) it was mostly teens getting pressured to get baptized. If you were still "just" a publisher at 16, you needed extra help because the goal was the get you in while in middle school or early high school. If you made it to 18, you were almost doomed! I made it to 17 before I got baptized. I was ashamed because I was already out of high school and unbaptized so I did it at the circuit assembly that summer.
status offlineKBG
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Nov 26 14 8:02 PM
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That is a record. So young, what was the example Jesus set? When did he get baptiz.... Never mind, he was a bad example.
status offlinesolitaire
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Aw that is so sad smiley: ohwell
Another poor kid doomed to a life of guilt..............whether they stay or leave, it still exerts its influence!! Sounds like they are trying to get them dunked even younger......that smacks of sheer desperation on the part of the org.............smiley: sick
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineGeowyn
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Many years ago I remember a CO telling us of a little girl who became an unbaptised publisher at 4, yes, 4(!)because she was able to answer the questions and was baptised at 5. It is wrong
to baptise anyone under the age of at least 21. This is going to cause so much heartache in the future.
If you don't live on the edge you take up too much room
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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If I might step in and say how close I came to being baptized Mormon because of hubby.
I will never be baptized again in any religion because they all have an agenda that I'll not follow.
Dear Jesus, and you know my belief in you is up for grabs - did you really put such expectations on our youth? Really? Perhaps we need getting rid of all religions. I'll help with that one toonuts
status offlinewomanbeyondtime
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I did hear of one case of that before. It is certainly not scriptural. I think they used the example of Samuel. Oh the twists and turns. Poor child. Just a miniature "stepped out of the Watchtower". Hey is it ok if people are allowed to be children and grow up in a natural fashion? Evidently not. Today we don't dedicate children they are supposed to dedicate themselves. Duh! failure on the thinking end. Any parent who allows that for their kid should have a psychological exam. the story does not in any way convey the tragedy unfolding. I like follow ups at 1, 3, 5 , 10 and 20 years plus. Let him speak for himself. AS I said before, there was pressure to baptize my daughter when she was 12, The elder said she wanted to be baptized and I said she also wanted to be a mermaid. Probably one of those things that got me marked for their suspicious minds.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Good Morningsmiley: wink
We know that the Borg doesn't want anyone being truly happy. I like what you said about your daughter also wanted to be a mermaidsmiley: happy. My youngest grandchild has different goals for her life and in the end, it will be her decision.
Thankfully, she is given that opportunity because her parents are not religious zealots that want brainwashing that precious child into believing as they would have her believe in any god, let alone this so called, "True God, Jehovah."
I'm very thankful that my son and his wife allow their children to make their own decisions when it comes to spiritual matters - and guess what? They are loving, kind and sharing children! They have compassion and aren't judging everyone according to some church.
Darn it...I'm really missing seeing them but we do talk on the phone so that's a good thingsmiley: smile
status offlineFence Setter
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Geowyn wrote:
Many years ago I remember a CO telling us of a little girl who became an unbaptised publisher at 4, yes, 4(!)because she was able to answer the questions and was baptised at 5. It is wrong
to baptise anyone under the age of at least 21. This is going to cause so much heartache in the future.
-------
That is crazy!! And I agree but, with the controlling restrictions and the life changing dedication I think, with JW's, it should follow Jesus's example and not be until 30. I am not the same person I was at 21, although I thought I was mature I was infact ignorant. I still am but have a little more sense at 45. There should be a law suit for what they have done to children baptized so young. My husband was 11 or 12 and it has ruined his life. He fights everyday to just be normal and get past the pain and judgements. I was 20 and people ask what was I thinking. I was love bombed and believed I was doing the right thing. I didn't actually understand the punishment I would recieve if I ever decided to leave and I was 20!! Most other religions don't have this life changing punishment if you choose to dedicate your life to God /Jesus. Ofcourse now JW's dedicate it to the Borg. smiley: sick JW.ORG
My nephew's dad is and Elder ofcourse. They say it was his "Choice", bull shit! It's like this family is competing to see who's kids get Baptized the youngest. If they aren't by 12 something must be wrong. SO, so, so sad. It breaks my heart.
You can't win you can stay brainwashed and always feel like you aren't good enough and wonder why you feel like shit inside, then blame it on yourself because you aren't a strong enough JW. You can feel guilty then turn it into hate because you think deep down x-mas lights are pretty. Isolate yourself from everyone that is not a JW. Turn away and loss you life with any family that are not JW's. Enforce the blood stance and put yourself or child at risk of dieing or actually dieing for the ORG. Or option 2... Wake Up and feel the pain of your family and friends turning against you, shun you, and speaking about you as if you are a demon.
Last Edited By: Fence Setter Nov 30 14 5:18 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinewomanbeyondtime
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Just sticking to the simple facts that they claim to follow Biblical principles. It is wrong. It is not a dedication to the temple like Samuel. ( we don't dedicate people today they dedicate themselves. It is not a baptism like John's. It is a dedication of one's self to doing all that is right but it was done, by example, by Jesus who was supposed to set the pace. He was 30. Considered an age of maturity in his day. This pushing of children into baptism does not ensure their salvation or that they will, when they are mature, serve God. It does show that some people seem to think it reflects on their ability as parents or even a competitive spirit that has no place in this area or for that fact any place in spirituality. It seems also to have taken on a congregation number thing. Yes we have new baptized members they can say when the C.O comes around and that they can add to their worldwide numbers. If they really cared about the children they would develop workbooks and programs and meetings that were geared just for their age, instead of forcing them to sit through hours of boring meetings that they cannot understand and forcing older ones to go over the same things again and again.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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That is so terribly sad Fencie ......... not uncommon but sad.
Of course the dad will say 'it's his choice' ... they always say that! As for baptising a five year old ... good gracious me! She's not old enough to decide what she wants for breakfast or which Barbie she wants ... never mind giving up her life to her parents god! It's all about having the most spiritual child I think .... and as Woman pointed out too, bums on seats.
The saddest thing of all is that both children have already been set up to fail. If they do anything at all considered a 'wrong doing' ...... they will already be swamped with the indoctrinated guilt and fear .... and then add more for good measure. There's something to be said for raising children in an atheist household like our boys are being raised!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineGoverning Bumbaclots
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This is creepy! It puts me in the mind of pedophilia Because ultimately you are forcing an undeveloped (physically, mentally and spiritually) CHILD to do something against their true will! I know progeny may exist, but the average 8 yr old wants play, games and SNACKS! NOT getting dunked in water in front of thousands like some fraternity hazing ritual!
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there GB and welcome .... love your username by the way!
It's not about little jdub kids wanting to do something against their true will ...... most of the young ones who get baptised do so because mummy, daddy and extended family members and jdub friends encourage them to. Little kids are people pleasing types ...... so add 'you will make Jehovah and all of your spiritual brothers and sisters SOOOO happy' ... and BOOM ... sucked in another one! The parents of the kids will tell you that their child/children are being baptised because THEY have chosen to dedicate their lives to the great Jehovah God. The parents are proud of their young ones being baptised early not for the dedicating to the god thing ..... more likely because they will be considered to be dedicated witnesses themselves 'and look how well they raised little Johnny' (or little Joanie). It's all about appearances. Control. Fear. I'm sure you know the rest!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineabby7149
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Fence Setter wrote:
A child wants to please mommy and daddy because they want their love and to see a smile from their parent makes them feel loved. So ofcourse they will get baptised. It would be fine at any age if there wasn't a life long contract with an organization that came along with it that will destroy your life if you ever want out of it. smiley: frown
I was 9 when I was baptized and can relate to this statement right here. Why did I get baptized? Because I knew it would make my family happy. That's it. Did I have any idea what I was doing? Not at all. I said "yes" to the questions asked at the circuit assembly but I had no idea what they meant. I didn't know until years later that I was supposed to have said a prayer in which I dedicated myself to God before I was dunked. Since that never happened, I personally view my baptism as invalid but good luck convincing them of that. That "decision" that I made at 9 years old has had more impact on my life than any other choice I have ever made. Holding someone to a decision they make as a child is immoral. I can only imagine how horrible it must be to watch your nephew forced into this situation.
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Hurt, betrayed by a JW
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offlineapepe34
Hurt, betrayed by a JW
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Mar 25 15 12:28 PM
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I don't know where to turn, or who to talk to. I'll start here in the hopes someone can say something, anything, to help.
My ex, with whom I have a 2 year old daughter with, decided to join the JW's a few months after she was born. He was so loving and kind, but he had anger issues when we fought, so I moved out in order for him to get help so our baby wasnt exposed. To figure out ways to deal with his anger, he decided becoming a JW again (he was previously studying in his country years ago) was the best option.
To make a long story short, his anger issues seemed to go away, and he figured ways through his faith, not to be angry when we fought. In addition however, he began to treat me in a distant way, putting the JWS before me and our child. He was often blaming me when the baby wouldn't comply with him (he was always studying or out for bible study) and he was very grouchy and cruel towards me.
We agreed not to influence our daughter in any religion, but I found out he was secretly showing her JW videos. We argued on this, but he continued, and after much distance and coldness towards me, he left to stay with them. I am heartbroken, and I cannot fathom how a person can just walk away from his family for this cult. There are so many people out there who don't have the family that we could have, but he takes it for granted and just walks out, because he believes this is God's will.
I've lost so much faith in God, because I know this is not how life should be, and I don't know why He would allow something like this to occur. I constantly blame myself, I feel like a failure because I tried to keep our family togetger for our daughter, but I failed, he left.
Please, if anyone has any words of advice or words to comprehend this, please share with me. This is unreal to me, I don't understand it, and I truly am heartbroken.
Thank you.
status offlineHumbleLove
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Mar 25 15 12:51 PM
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Hi apepe, Welcome to the Forum
image
Here is a virutal hug for you :). image
I am sorry to hear that your ex has gotten involved with JW cult. Don't blame yourself in any way. You tried hard to keep your family together, and that is truly commendable. Your
daughter needs you, continue to be strong for her. I, myself am non-JW, I understand how it's hard to understand how someone could leave a family and put a cult first. I myself
came here in search of answers and I am still in the learning mode. There are plenty of people here who can help you and offer emotional support. In time your heart will heal, and
things will get better. I will be sending positive thoughts your way.
The "unreal" part of how someone can leave their family for their cult varies in the reasons. It sounds like your ex truly believes in their doctrines. It's hard to get someone
to see that the truth the JW's have isn't the truth. A religion that is ok with someone leaving their family....isn't a loving religion. It's a hurtful cult.
If you are seeking a way to perhaps get your ex to see the light, it is possible but it takes a lot of time and patience to achieve. In other words there is still hope that he
will leave the JW cult and return to you and your daughter. There are plenty of people here who have left the JW cult, so it has been done.
I know you are heartbroken right now, but things will get better.
status offlineapepe34
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Mar 25 15 2:07 PM
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Thank you so very much for your kind words, you have no idea how much they mean.
Thank you for taking time to respond, I sincerely appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.
status offlineHumbleLove
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You're welcome. I sent you a message if you need someone to talk to right now. I am in a chat room on a different site. For some reason the chat room on yuku doesn't work for me.
The url for the chatroom is in your inbox.
status offlinemaksutov
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Sorry to hear that you've been through so much pain apepe34. I think your case is a little unusual - in my experience, JWs don't normally leave their unbelieving families (they are more likely to do so if their partner was a believer and then stopped believing than if they had never been a JW). However, his secretly trying to indoctrinate your daughter is very much in keeping with JW values - as far as they are concerned it is a matter of life and death, and JWs are strongly encouraged to take every opportunity to 'inculcate' the religion in their offspring. Unfortunately, the religion has a very strong hold on its adherents, and most devout JWs will put the interests of the religion ahead of the interests of their family. It is not your fault that he made that choice.
Russ.
status offlinepunkofnice
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Welcome apey from your old Uncle Punky.
Firstly, you are NOT a failure. If you hadn't tried to do what was best for your family, then perhaps you could consider yourself a failure...but no! You are doing your best. Sounds like the anger issues need professional help. I've seen this before....with the proper meds things can level out. As far as the JW thing is concerned, it won't help if the cult indoctrination is messing up the mind. Keep us posted. Sorry that I have no real advice but my life is a mess so who am I to talk?!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlinepalmel1234
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Hi Apepe34,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I know you must feel hurt and abandoned.
Please do not think that you have failed your family, it is your husband that has failed the family.
Now, I know it is probably hard to think about right now, but I would encourage you to look into filing for divorce.
The fact that your husband has left is actually a blessing in disguise. Since he has "abandoned" the family,
the chances of him getting custody or even joint custody are not good.
Get a free consultation with a divorce attorney to see what your options are.
You want to get sole legal custody, which means all child rearing decisions, including religious, educational
and medical are only allowed by you.
It is very important you get sole legal custody. Not only do you not want your husband indoctrinating your child,
but you do not want him making medical decisions for her either. JWs do not take blood transfusions,
and you do not want your husband making that decision for your child.
A judge will not look favorably on the fact that your husband left the family and will be likely
to rule in your favor.
I don't mean to overwhelm you while you are hurting so much,
but waiting too long to deal with these kind of issues can hurt a person's case.
Give yourself time to grieve and process, but also think about what you want to do going forward.
This guy does not deserve you.
*hugs*
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status offlinesolitaire
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Hello there and welcome :-)
I am so sorry that your husband chose to go back to the religion in order to deal with his anger issues......yes, it would have appeared at first that it was having a calming effect on him, but that would only be because there was so much more that he would have to contend with.....as you will have found to your cost!!
I've lost so much faith in God
Even though I personally don't have a strong faith in a god....I would urge you to separate your faith from organised religion.....what is done to individuals and families in the name of 'religion' has nothing to do with spirituality or your personal relationship with a god!! Religions (cults) such as the jw's are all about control through their rules and dictates, as you will have seen from all the people here who are suffering because they chose not to follow such a 'religion', it has caused untold heartache and ripped families apart.........that has nothing to do with any 'god' but everything to do with power-hungry men who claim to speak in his name!!
You haven't 'failed' at anything to do with your family.........your husband has failed to address his own behaviour, and has instead chosen the path of least resistance......a path that enables him to offload his responsibilities yet again, this time onto a cult that tells him what to do and how to act..
Imo he is using the religion as his excuse not to face up to his duties........this has been used before. The organisation would not urge him to abandon his wife and child, and if that is what he is claiming he is not being truthful!! Sounds like he is looking for any excuse to run away.....and if this is the case, you and your child can only be better off without him!
I can only hope for all your sakes (not the least his own) that he wakes up to the direction he is heading, and man up to his responsibilities to you and his child.....but his actions so far make that very doubtful!!
Sam
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
Last Edited By: solitaire Mar 26 15 10:44 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineapepe34
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To all of you, a sincere thank you from the bottom of my heart. You have no idea how touching your kind words are to hear, especially since I've been dealing with this for so long.
I have decided to leave for good and let him figure things out, I just can't give any more of myself to him, I have nothing left. Hopefully one day he will have an epiphany and realize his religion is wrong, but sadly I don't think that will happen.
I'm going to do my very best to be an amazing mom for our little girl, as she's the one who needs me most, and she deserves nothing but the best, with or without him.
Again, thank you all so very much.
status offlinePapillon1960
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Oh Honey! I am so sorry for what you have been through. You have received some very good advice already and so all I can say is that I hope that you keep coming here to get the support you deserve. Please know that you are not alone! Love and hugs-Michele
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Good for you Apepe! You are a brave lady and your daughter will be so proud
of you for standing up for yourself.
Feel free to post on here whenever you need to.
Ask questions, vent, cry, whatever you need to do.
*hugs*
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I'm so sorry you are going through this. I was raised a JW and lost my family for many years when I decided to leave the religion. One thing I wanted to point out is how you feel it's your fault. It is not at all. That's just how JW's will make someone feel when they reject you in favor of the religion. My family would openly blame me for their choice to ignore me. After time and research I realized it was not me. Please do not feel like it's your fault. And him being cold towards you is totally the mind control they have over people. My own Mother ignored me for over a decade. I know she did it because she thinks she is doing the right thing. They scare them with the threat that they will die at Armageddon if they do not go along with all of the rules. So just remember that he is being very deeply manipulated and controlled and it's not you at all. (((((((hugs))))))
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apepe34, you are not alone.
I know the coldness and crankyness you speak of. I have experienced the total lack of apathy and constant pointing the finger of blame at me by my husband.
The very difficult to experience and understand the change in the man when he decided to "go back" in order to "fix" his personality, which only makes him so much worse. The lying.... all of it.
You, believe me, are NOT alone at all.
We have power over ourselves, you have power over your daughters home life now. You will do everything you can do to make it awesome.
Stay strong girl!!
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Sorry for what you are going through. Wishing you well. You sound determined to make a life for yourself and your daughter. You'll make it!
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Apepe34 maybe you can stay strong for the both of us for the tine being I completely lost it again last night Over long tern issues of husband promising ( promises usually met with no action is the norm) to help with our take an interest in the financial and business end of the businesses, not take over, or even do more than a fraction, just do some reasonable things I request of him as a business partner , like get a separate c card for his personal expenses so he can see where he spends his personal money ( Separate even from a joint with me because he never looks at it and does not pay it. I do it all He has NO CLUE) and not mix the with the business. To look at the bank accounts more than once every few years after I pitch a fit ( I HATE being trained to behaving this way to get a result) , at the businesses, and my taking more and more responsibilities then , asking for help getting none, just asking for more. Then last night he got an accusatory tone when I finally brought to him what had been avoiding, ( 10 year old was out of the house so I felt it was a good time to do this) the business cc statements over 20 thousand with the personal items came tallying up to 3 or 4 thousand a month sometimes. (This does not even include it all like gas he buys for personal use, and snacks at the gas stations. ) This is his Personal purchases. No household bills, no utilities, no gas for my car, repairs, clothing, house taxes, or -car or insurance, health insurance, for me or his daughter. His response was "well why don;t you give me an idea of what it take to run this household because he us always rescued. .Sounds reasonable huh? Except that for years I have come up with both retroactive and projected budgets. He claims it is a great step forward, looks forward to moving in the right directions, then it soon all goes right back...... right back as if this was not discussed. I write it down. I place it in his desk, I place it there more than once time. I revise it. I cut extra costs. He bight and aquarium ( no he isn't excessive, that is about as excessive as he gets thankfuly. he just doesn;t look realistically at everyday purchases that we we really don't need.) This week cable tv is finally s getting cut. ( we do not spend n movies, and he is the only one who eats out, at lunch, unless my friend and former boss treats me,or I acquire a gift card and send he and his daughter out to eat occasionally for a date treat. Never mind I make things for him to take for lunch. "creature of habit to go by subway he says".......he is in a dream world and wanting to stay there, and it again last night, caused me to blow up.
His accusatory tone was that he had been asking me too tell him for weeks his gross sales from the business that brings in active income Not the rentals ( This amount gross income - expenses is enough to qualify us for government aid) Gross incomes NOT only going to reinforce in his business ignorance that he is doing just fine, and that I over react. The rentals blood suck the money out of us and my savings is about to run try. I now put a stop to that NO MORE of my own safety net being lost to blinding myself to ignoring the reality of what I wish him to be instead of what his behavior really is.
I got zero sleep last might once again. I spent the entire night working hard to get the numbers all reconciled, and ready for taxes ( something My Constitution, fears, and emotions have been holding me back from. I am actually glad he pushed me over that edge now. Funny how after 24 hours of no sleep my head can feel more clear about what do to. I didn't get pushed this far last year. I did this time. This was a needed thing. I am now on the path to getting full disclosure. Full information I will have all the information too present to a bankruptcy lawyers to see what can be done, if we can avoid bankruptcy, if i can avoid his mistakes when the assets I brought into the marriage are assets that have always been only in my name. I have Canceled each card he ever had his name on, that was in my name. I took my name off some but will take it off all of the cards in his name only . A pain when doing business but i don't care. He created this bed, now he will have to deal with the consequences. I am energized to create reports, graphs, visuals, to show the complete ignorance of his own creation of this business' (in) viability for 11+ years. and his failure to recognize it when it slaps his in the face so many times. He shuts himself down and focuses in minor things. Trying not to think.
One more reason why I fear this memorial season. He is so primed.
and for you apepe34 I hope you get a nice nap today
Ok : end rant....
I will call up my rusty old MBA calculations and presentations and trending. I will present my own ideas of what to do to improve the situation. ( I already have been but in a meager mousy way....no more)
I will include an employment plan of my own to help get our personal debt out of the way . I refuse to work on the business debt. That is his and his alone to dedicate himself to. I will help when I can but my priority will be to get the family debt free, the 10 year old colleges fund going, and the nest egg back. I am working towards independence to make sure no mater what his actions or i actions might be, I will not be financially stuck. ( of course emotionally stuck, that s a given, unless I cross that ever so close like of just not caring anymore. )
My older daughter so generoously and delightfully took the 10year old to disney thus week and now we have a week to ourselves. I wrote a date night on the calendar for the last night she would be gone (before he even knew the night of the memorial). So we could hopefully regain some form of closeness this week and have that night be a spcial one for us. But that night is, yes, you probably guessed it, the memorial night. He is putting more importance on the memorial night. This is going to be a a challenging week. I will finally finish all the financials, then hand then over to him. He will have to choose, either treat me as an equal in this business ( and in our marriage) or I will walk away from it the business immediately leaving him with all of it.
Please, please forgive me for hijacking with this ultra long rant ( lack of sleep did some of this I'm afraid) . Sometimes I appreciate a hijack within the UBM dilemma, as it gives me new and things to think about. It sometimes give be energy, or hope, or understanding. If this in not true for you, I sincerely apologize and I will delete this post if you wish.
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Oh, you two...awful. Sound like you're trying to deal with drug-addicts. Reading through your posts leaves me breathless, I can't imagine what it must feel like for you guys to do trojan work and no credit, no progress, no thanks.
Apepe, you said you have nothing left. That's a start. Best wishes to both of you!
Huggles, Ceili xx
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Hi there Apepe and welcome .......................
It would be great to say that your man will work through his issues and come back to you the same as he left ..... however that is unlikely now that he has 'the truth'. He obviously feels the need to belong to that cult/religion (call it what you will) .................. but if he's counting on the jdubs filling in an emotional gap for him, he will be sadly disappointed. Specially if he trips himself up and makes a mistake.
You are doing what is instinctively right for you and your daughter. That takes great courage and your daughter will love you for it. Mel's advice to seek legal advice is very timely. If you know where you stand legally .... you will already be one step ahead of him. That's not a malicious nor a selfish thing on your part .... it is for survival purposes and to protect your little lady. We are here for you.
Nonnie my sweet ..... it is very wise of you to start sorting things out financially and to relieve yourself of any debt that he may decide to throw your way. He needs to grow up I think. The memorial is all fine and dandy ... but at the end of the day it's nothing to with religion and everything to do with bums on seats. The WBTS likes nothing more than to brag about how many people turn up at their beloved memorial service. My bum won't be anywhere near any of their seats that's for sure!
Apepe and Nonnie ..... you both need to keep yourselves and your little ones safe. It is not wrong nor selfish to want peace in your life and if that means going solo ... then so be it. It is sad that in a world where some fathers would bend over backwards to be back with their little families ...... your two are behaving so badly. Perhaps it is going without you both that will make them sit up and take notice!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
Satan
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Do we really continue believing in such nonsense"
After all the legal stuff with fence rider..going to court and all that nonsense...she want's telling me about how Satan and Jehovah rule this world.
I'm just not going to play her game...I'm sick of Jehovah and Satan.
Last Edited By: Linda 3 days ago. Edited 1 time.
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They need to make up their mind whether Satan is ruling or Jesus is. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
"Be loyal to Christ, the reigning King, and his Organization" but don't forget to be AFRAID of the Bogeyman.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
Last Edited By: auth 3 days ago. Edited 2 times.
status offlineVancity
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Satan exists in theology for the same reason governments always have a group of people to fight against. It gives them someone to blame all the bad stuff on and unites people against a common enemy. It basically distracts members from reality.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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And, for some of us we don't believe in Jesus or Satan...we just know that life can often seem stressful..and we don't need a scapegoat because of family or religion.
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I saw the heading "Satan" and though .... 'yes Lin ... what did you want?' ....... but then that would make Satan ... as in me ... fun! We can't have that. Satan is supposed to be scary ... not some weird woman from the wilds of Western Australia!!!! smiley: wink
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Missy Rhonda...I'd guess we h ave discussed the reasons for why we don't believe in their religion...we know to be kind loving persons and we no longer need their shame.
Hey, I doing research on Marquis De Sade...religion had a lot to do with his history as did being born into wealth and royalty.
Guess I'm at the stage of my life when people talk about Satan, I'm finished listening to their religious bullshit.
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@ Linda Yes, I think religion does have a lot to do with someone's history. As well as if someone is born into wealth and royalty. How are your studies coming? That's an interesting thing you are researching Marquis de Sade. Are you researching him because he is French or some other reason? I just found it interesting that you were researching him. He is an interesting guy with very interesting views for someone having been born in 1740.
@Andria i had a chuckle when I read your post.
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"Satan" is a convenient catchall for the "bad" people do and for the bad and sad things that happen. "Satan" gives them a place to dump the angst by blaming one central entity. However, it gets carried way too far when people start thinking that other people are following this entity called Satan. Then it gets into weird.
I believe in God. I also believe the evil exists, but it's somehow in the hearts of mankind. Why do we have war? They don't just happen. Someone plans them. Someone starts them. We have never grown out of that primitive and unreasonable way of dealing with the world's problems.
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I totally agree with the "Why do we have war? " It makes sense what you said. And exactly why haven't we grown out of the primitive and unreasonable way of dealing with the world's problems? Why haven't we? Maybe it's because some people still have the primitive and unreasonable way of thinking ingrained.
It's an interesting viewpoint about Satan. I understood what you meant by "gets into weird."
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Hey!
Guess it happened years ago when I became interested in how people find it so easy being so cruel to another. We are a military family, we do research into many subjects - we just find human nature most interesting.
Through my years of research, I've actually learned to be a more compassionate person. Perhaps better aware but none the less, be cautious.
I also enjoy reading about Rasputin - the old days from Russia and the Czar.
History is interesting...and it's a constant study; just as it is with the WTBTS.
When you have any religion that protects these type individuals - you will also have someone doing research and share with others.
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The thing I miss most about the JW organization is ...
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The thing I miss most about the JW organization is ...
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I didn't celebrate April Fools so I wasn't compelled to do silly things like
pretending to miss anything about the JW organization. :P
What do you miss the most smiley: laugh
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineLocutus
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Walking to meetings in front of my worldly school friends on Sunday mornings in a tweed suit with elbow patches. Damn, that was so great.
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Mmm - nothing about the organisation.....but I do miss some of the people who are still brainwashed ...
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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I too miss some of the still brainwashed people. These were all of my childhood/adolescent friends and since our lives and association was so limited, this was all I had. I do feel grief when my mother reports to me that bro/sis so-and-so is very ill or passed away - people I have known for a long time. Many of them were likable.
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Yeah, people are the only thing we could possibly miss. That's why the organization holds them hostage!
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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If I understood the beginning of this thread correctly it was meant to be an April Fools joke???
If so, I miss finishing up a 5 hr housecleaning job, rushing to pick up kids from 3 different schools, figuring out something for dinner to feed kids and keep in oven until husband got home at 6:30 pm and getting 4 kids ready for meeting by myself and getting to the meeting all put together in time (7:15) to greet people at the Kingdom Hall and then getting home around 9:45 or 10:00 and there not being time for kids to do homework due the next day....I'm sure I've missed some things about the wonderful life (not) of being the mother in a JW family.
Oh, and I SO miss that 'sister' who loved to gossip about me and make trouble for my kids and husband in the congregation. She was such a peach!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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I think I just miss one or two people, if they are still alive. I enjoyed a lot about being a JW at times. Like I actually enjoyed going out in service. I enjoyed having the social thing for a while anyway, well, at least until I was baptized. Everyone was so good and kind to me, then I got baptized and BAM, I was no longer treated so amazingly well.
I would never be a JW again.
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Service. Definitely service. I still have nightmares about being out in service. LOL
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whytebyrd2 wrote:
If I understood the beginning of this thread correctly it was meant to be an April Fools joke???
If so, I miss finishing up a 5 hr housecleaning job, rushing to pick up kids from 3 different schools, figuring out something for dinner to feed kids and keep in oven until husband got home at 6:30 pm and getting 4 kids ready for meeting by myself and getting to the meeting all put together in time (7:15) to greet people at the Kingdom Hall and then getting home around 9:45 or 10:00 and there not being time for kids to do homework due the next day....I'm sure I've missed some things about the wonderful life (not) of being the mother in a JW family.
Oh, and I SO miss that 'sister' who loved to gossip about me and make trouble for my kids and husband in the congregation. She was such a peach!Yeah, it was an April Fools joke with a facetious challenge to find something you miss.
Anyway, that *is* quite a schedule! I was exhausted just reading it.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Sharon - that was funny reading...and at the same time soooo true!!
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I believe my favorite memory was being out in service on Saturday morning and one of your classmates opens the door. Couldn't friggin wait to give them that speech I had prepared about the latest "Awake!".
P.S. One time, my teacher actually answered the door... And was rude. That was fun.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Michelle H7 - OMG, I've probably overlooked you until now. Hell, I don't keep up with everything but when I notice a new poster - Well, my love, Welcome and keep posting.
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Boy, was I furious earlier.
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offlinePapillon1960
Boy, was I furious earlier.
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JWs came and knocked on my door today with their fake smiles, pamphlets, and a promise to be brief. Imagine her surprise when I said " Honey, you have NO idea how brief this is going to be. I am supposed to be on a "do not call" list!" She said she was sorry and she didn't know. I said that she should make it her business to know and that I would be calling the kingdom hall to let them know that if any JWs ever come to my home I will be calling the police.
I asked the local police what my rights were awhile back and I was told that if they come again, I could do a citizens arrest for trespassing. I have no intention of welcoming pedophile protecting, child killing, self-righteous a-holes into my home. They go to court and fight for their own rights but could care less about the rights of anyone else. Stuff itStuff itStuff it
Ok, vent over. Anyone else had the visit for the yearly JW "cracker-and-wine-tasting-but-you-can't-have-any" night? ARGHHHHH! It feels like they have taken so much from me and they are trying to come back for more.
status offlineHumbleLove
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The vent is over...here is a hug for you....image It's too bad you can't send them my way....so I could plant seeds of doubt in them...lol. Yes, I know a difficult thing I am trying to do, but I am trying to do it anyway.
Do you have a "no trespassing" or "no soliciting" sign? I only ask because this way maybe they wouldn't even dare to knock on your door in the first place.
I hope you are feeling better.
status offlineJourney
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Oh my gosh, our sweet Papillon. I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope she got the message. They are so rude in how they handle the door to door stuff. We also should not be getting visits, but did get one after that decision. From how we see it, she knocked on our door and interrupted our conversation. Then she starts talking immediately. Then Larry interrupts her and tells her that we are defined as apostates by the org. Then she shuts her mouth, doesn't thank us or apologize and just turns her back and leaves. I yelled out how rude that was.
HumbleLove, they have traditionally ignored "no trespassing" and "no soliciting" signs.
If you feel called to plant seeds of doubts in active JWs, maybe you really will. I remember sitting with them and asking questions and after a while they are going into circular reasoning. There are times you can see it in their eyes that they are losing track of what you are saying and are reasoning how they've been taught to reason.
Keep that in mind when dealing with them. Don't let them sidetrack you into believing what they believe. Just beware.
status offlinePapillon1960
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Thanx Humblelove. I am fine now. Fortunately for me I had an appointment with my therapist right after that happened. My therapist knows me pretty well already and took one look at me and said " What's going on?"
Maybe someday hearing a knock at the door will not make my heart feel like it's in a vise.
status offlinePapillon1960
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Aww my Janet, you always know just what to say to me. I only want them to leave me alone! They have zero respect for the rights and wishes of others. We know how they view non-JWs. They hate them and take such pleasure at the thought of their god murdering them. As bad as that is, they hate ex-JWs even more. It's a sick way to live. For anyone lurking or posting that is studying with JWs, just know that they are in a very sick and twisted religion. Do you really want to be a part of that?
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience, Papillon. And we don't mind if you rant and get it off your chest. If you're on the 'do not call' list, they should darn well stay away from you! That's what it's there for. I haven't had my annual Memorial visit yet, but I expect one any day now. That or they leave a tract in the door.
Humble, JWs are notorious for ignoring 'No Trespassing' signs. There was a Theocratic Ministry School talk once about that very issue. We were told that 'No Trespassing' signs didn't apply to us because it was 'freedom of religion' to bang on the doors of people who didn't want us there. BUT we were also told that if an angry homeowner called the cops on us and we were arrested, the Society wouldn't help us! "It's okay to violate someone's property, but don't come crying to us when you get in trouble for doing what we told you." Go figure!
status offlineabby7149
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I guess the "No Trespassing" rules vary for different congregations then... where I grew up, we were told to skip any door with a "No Trespassing" sign on it or on their gate, and we did. "No Soliciting" doors, on the other hand, were fair game since we technically weren't selling anything, we were told these didn't apply to us.
It's weird, I live in Manila, Philippines now(grew up in USA) and while I see Kingdom Halls around, I've never seen JWs door-knocking here, certainly we have never been visited by them ourselves. I'm sure not complaining, just wondering how they work here.
Abbs
It's funny how someone can break your heart, but you can still love them with all the little pieces.
status offlineHumbleLove
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Papillon I am glad to hear you were able to work things out during your therapy appointment. It's good to get things out.
Journey, there is no way they will get me to believe what they believe. The blood doctrine alone to me is taking away free will. I don't think anyone should be involved in something that takes away the choice
of life. I celebrate my birthday 31 days in a row...I have no desire to give that up...lol I have already seen it in their eyes when I am talking to them that they aren't paying attention after awhile. But, that's ok I am trying anyway.
sg I must say after reading that....JW's are suppose to ignore no soliciting, no trespassing signs....but are on their own if the police arrest them....is totally not fair.
abby Yes, there are probably variations in the "no trespassing" "no soliciting" rules from congregation to congregation....country to country for that matter.
status offlineCacky
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Humblelove, I'm curious, where do you find jws to unwitness to?
status offlineHumbleLove
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I walk into Kingdom Halls...and say "listen up people." LOL! Too bad it's not that simple. I have told quite a few people what I am doing so people who get JW's at their doors have let me know roughly what time they show up. I get
my opportunities to "unwitness" to witnesses in person on Saturday afternoons mostly.
The thought of doing Bible Studies with JW's has crossed my mind in order to get more opportunities to try and "unwitness." But, for now I am mostly "unwitnessing" to those who knock on doors.
On-line there is this one ex-jehovah's witness chat room that I hang out in and every now and then somebody pops in who says they are looking to convert to JW or actually are JW.
I don't know if I am getting anywhere...but I am giving it a shot.
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" Honey, you have NO idea how brief this is going to be. I am supposed to be on a "do not call" list!"
I know you were upset but this made me chuckle. She must have been taken aback by that reply. That's one "conversation stopper" that isn't in the Reasoning Book!
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinePapillon1960
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Both of their jaws dropped open and they beat a hasty retreat, to be sure! My hubby said I should have launched into a vicious attack on their religion or told them I am an apostate or something like that. Naw, I said it would be brief and I wanted them to know that I do as I say I will. I wanted them gone and the last thing I want is to get into a debate with an active a JW. I just want these people to leave me the frick alone, ha know?
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Maybe someday hearing a knock at the door will not make my heart feel like it's in a vise.
Yes, someday that will happen, Michelle.
I have gone through various stages of coping with the inevitable JW door knockers.
I have dealt with it in varying ways, depending on what I was feeling at the time. Everything form screaming matches, to avoidance, to having them inside my house for tea, or engaging in discussions about child abuse or biblical inconsistencies. Or I would be just interested in getting the latest in Watchtower artwork for a collage. I have even had them target me for 'unexpected street witnessing'.
I have moved around a lot in my life, and it seemed like I was never in a new home for more than two weeks and they would come knocking. It was so predictable I used to chalk it up to the 'demon attacks' that I had been warned about. That went on for years. I reasoned that they had to be getting the 'down low' from the demons who followed me around or whispered in their ear.
smiley: wink
They are scared of me now. The last visit occurred at a house that I hadn't requested a 'do not call' at yet. Besides, i had changed my mind and needed an updated 'Jesus' picture to work with. The women who opened the door turned white and stammered, "Oh....we aren't supposed to call on you!" I guess I was marked in the last community I lived in. They knew me and I didn't know them - at a house they hadn't marked 'do not call'. They haven't found me at my new home yet. I am thinking of going and checking their table out at campus some day.
Good luck, Michelle. Pre-arm yourself by pre-planning your next encounter so that you come out without a pounding heart and sweaty palms. We have much to arm ourselves with, thanks to forums like this one. There will be a next encounter, someday, somewhere. They are like fruit flies always popping up and being a nuisance when you least want them.
At some point, you may be able to detach emotionally enough to give them a good strong display without the anger involved - that is what they really will hear.
Last Edited By: birdwoman2 6 days ago. Edited 2 times.
status offlinesolitaire
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HumbleLove, they have traditionally ignored "no trespassing" and "no soliciting" signs.
Yep Janet....I can remember being told that those signs were not intended for us, cos we were there on a life and death mission!!
Of course that didn't stop the homeowner from screaming at me and pointing to the sign.....(seems it did include me, who would have guessed?? smiley: tongue)
((Michele)) although I can totally understand your anger and upset at the visit, I had a vision of you making a citizens arrest.....especially with the frame of mind you were in....and the look on the face of the jw as they were frogmarched to the police.......and that has just made my day lol!! xxxx
edited to add........I have recently seen specific 'No Religious Callers'......but I bet that wouldn't have 'applied' to jw's either!!
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
Last Edited By: solitaire 5 days ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlinebirdwoman2
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I have told quite a few people what I am doing so people who get JW's at their doors have let me know roughly what time they show up. I get
my opportunities to "unwitness" to witnesses in person on Saturday afternoons mostly.
That is quite the strategy, HL.
I have never heard of a person as committed as you are in trying to save the deluded JWs who randomly wander around neighborhoods. You speak of "opportunities" that you have already had. Could you please share how many times you have "un-witnessed" to JWs as a result of people letting you know "roughly" what time JWs come to their door?
And you say - "mostly" Saturday afternoons - so...when do these opportunities arise besides Saturdays?
And...I am curious....about those "few people" who are in communication with you, the ones who give you advance warning, so you can go to their home and be present when the JWs knock at their doors, - why are they so motivated to accommodate your "un-witnessing" work?
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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"NO TRESPASSING" means just that!
I don't care if it's a dog or whatever, please respect that you are not you are not welcome under any circumstances unless invited. The JW preaching their hate is not invited...under any circumstance.
I've gone this gambit before...They did not respect me. I found it necessary to to be known that I don't want those people at me door. I've been shames by pioneers, I've been shamed enough and one day I did make amends for being hateful; and that was because my posted sign was not respected.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Michelle, I'm not going to edit.
That day, when they disrespected my sign...we had words. Later, when I wanted a bible from the JW,for doing research, it was the same man I had kicked off my property.
I have tried being respectful, they in turn at times try being respectful. The best thing for me is not having them come around. I'm also on their no call list and whenever they think for coming around, the neighbors tell me.
None of us want them come doing their door-to-door bullshit rhetoric and yet there will be times when they show up. Stay strong.
status offlineCacky
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I"m a known apostate, so they won't come around here any longer since my girls don't live with us anymore. My deaf son has had studies with the sign language cong, but it's quite far away and they've stopped coming. They've told him that if he wants to do anymore, he'll have to drive into the city (a bad part of the city) and attend meetings himself. He won't do that, thank goodness. He just liked the association with others who knew sign language. My husband, however, is just considered faded, so I wonder if one day an elder will come by to try to "encourage" him.
status offlineHumbleLove
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I apologize to anyone that I have offended with the original post.
Last Edited By: HumbleLove 4 days ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlineCeili
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Birdwoman, you're a howl! "Like fruitflies..." defo takes the biscuit for laugh of the day!
xxx
status offlinecangie
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Humble---does the fact that Bird asks you some very thought-provoking and probing questions get YOU to see how futile your efforts are at "unwitnessing" to JW's? I suspect not, and that is most likely the same results you are getting to the efforts you are attempting. You cannot "preach" to JW's...they instantly go into a mental process of denial. And 6 weeks of reading and one month of discussions does not---in any way---make you an expert in this area. You are trying to fight faith with facts and that's a daunting, if not impossible task. Faith is an emotional attachment, not necessarily with reason. Facts are defined to a JW as only what the Watchtower tells them is facts (or "truth"). There are several reasons why your efforts will most likely be ineffective:
You were never a JW. Your are not an "ex-JW", so you never had the "lived experience" that we do. JW's are not likely to hear anything that you have to say. You are "worldly" and therefore your opinion does not count to them. They view it as persecution or opposition and will usually cause them to dig their heels in deeper and resist you. They must---their faith dictates it. You cannot "unwitness" to someone unless you have formerly been a "witness" and you do not understand the spiritual, mental and emotional abuse that has been done to a person (especially if they spent their whole life as a JW.) In fact, very few therapists are really familiar with the damage done to a survivor of a cult-- do you reason that you have such insights?
You have no "dog in this fight." You don't have a lifelong investment of family, your only social group, and in some cases jobs and employment, as the rest of us do. You have one friend who is studying. Friends come and go, and you might have to come to the point where you wish this friend well and let her go! She has a right to her life choice---no matter how unhappy it makes you. If that makes you angry, unhappy and leaves you grieving, we get that. But your life task is to heal those emotions in yourself and come to terms with it. It's not your business to go on a crusade against every JW you get a chance to confront because you are furious at them for taking your friend from you.
Other chat rooms may be focused on "unwitnessing" to other JW's but that is not the focus of our forum. Our purpose is as a recovery and support site for the MEMBERS to do their personal work and healing. We all wish that we could "save" family and friends who are still JW's. But part of recovery is learning when to let go of others and let them live their own lives as they choose. And in that way YOU can, in your own words, "truly lead a happy life."
Last Edited By: cangie 4 days ago. Edited 7 times.
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Boy, was I furious earlier.
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status offlineauth
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I've read that some Christians try to witness to witnesses and I really wonder how much success they have.
We were so thoroughly educated about how clueless and corrupt "Christendom" is that I doubt they'd make any headway.
Add to that the fact that many witnesses were born into the religion (just as many Christians were born into theirs) and the odds go down even further.
Listen, I have witness family and I share a residence with some of them. I DO NOT try to talk them out of their religion and they don't try to talk me into it.
We have an unspoken understanding. I wasn't baptized and I'm not being shunned so I don't have a huge motivation to do anything that might generate friction.
I'm vocal here, even 'heretical' sometimes. But in personal interactions, I do not try to start religious conversations. In fact, one of the great things is that I no longer feel that I need to "informal witness".
I consider this a safe place where I can be a little crazy sometimes and discuss things that wouldn't be appropriate with people who don't have the background.
If I run into people from my former congregation I don't try to tell them about child abuse cases or any other scandal. If they speak to me I engage in small-talk. They're not mine to save.
Of course, there is a place for activism but, IMO, that should be about making balanced information about the JWs available to the general public.
If someone is currently a JW and doesn't want to be anymore then it's something they have to discover and work through themselves.
When members here talk about "unwitnessing" or "planting seeds" they are usually referring to family members who may be pulling away because of the religion.
Very few of us would take on the task of trying to "deconvert"(tm) strangers we don't know. Most of us are glad we don't have to go out in field service any more.
So if members find what you say you're doing a bit incredible, given that your only connection to the religion is a friend who's going to convert, that's why.
Diligently seeking out witnesses to "unwitness" to a lot of headache to take on when you have no dog in the fight.
I wouldn't recommend it either.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Humble - I don't think you offended anyone.3 Bears
Heck, if anyone could be accused of such it would be mesmiley: pimp
We don't always agree with each other but we do listen and sometimes have disagreement with how things might work out.
Cangie- I enjoyed your post.
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I just saw the edit. I wasn't offended at all. I was just giving some unsolicited advice.
Some JWs have refused potentially life-saving treatment or disowned children because of their religion.
Trying to pull them out of that is extremely difficult and not worth anyone's time unless they have a vested interest (a JW spouse, child etc).
I guess some people do it for religious reasons out of the belief that witnesses need to be saved. Good for them and good luck with that.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Well.
That was interesting.
smiley: smokin
status offlineCacky
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Humble, I also wonder why you are so in to trying to unwitness to jws. As has been said, you don't have a dog in the fight. Those of us who have been shunned, I can see going on a campaign against witnesses, but you don't really seem to have much of a connection at all, yet you are really going out of your way in this. It just seems odd to me.
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No fears, Humble. You didn't offend me. If you feel strongly about doing what your doing, that's your business. Best of luck to you and I mean that sincerely. It's always possible something you say may plant a seed in someone's mind. It may not be obvious and you may never know. I choose not to unwitness to my family partly because I'm a coward (Yes! I admit it!) and partly because I just don't want to argue. But that's me. Everyone here is going to see things differantly. That's the beauty of being here; we're free to disagree. I hope you stick around here.
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Michelle, I certainly can understand the anger (bordering on rage at times....) that you felt when confronted by those interlopers on your space. Your reaction was exactly the way I have felt at times - violated and defensive of my territory. It is so instinctual in us as animals - to defend what is ours. It is our survival mechanism. And, depending on how we are feeling at the time, we defend our territory in different ways. And we should.
Mutual respect is vital in our interactions if we are to learn how to negotiate our confusing world. And that is what the JWs lack. They lack respect for others.
I am contemplating on engaging the local JWs on my own turf shortly. I have heard that they have a table set up on campus. I will engage them if they are there on my next visit to campus. I cannot wait to point them to the university's webpage that offers religious study classes as an alternative to the JW website promotion. If I can, I will give them a hard copy of all 20 pages of religious studies classes offered at the very same institution that they are recruiting at. My printer won't handle the full 20 pages but maybe somebody on campus will do me a favor and print it all out for me. The university's religious studies offerings dwarf the WTS' pathetic attempt to say the JWs 'educate'. And, I won't be directing the JWs to any of the forbidden 'apostate' information - just to what should interest anyone of 'religious' persuasions.
Last Edited By: birdwoman2 4 days ago. Edited 1 times.
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There's an example of what it's like if you don't go by the script when JWs come knocking.
If I engage them it would be for my benefit not theirs though I'd be glad if they took something from the conversation.
I don't see myself ever seeking them out to talk to lol. It'll feel too much like rehashing the past.
BTW, I hope I didn't upset Humble. Certainly wasn't my intention.
Mine is just another opinion and they all stink.
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlineJourney
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HumbleLove. I'll tell ya, you are getting a lot of great advice here. The fact is, some people, no matter how strong they think they are, have wound up becoming JWs after doing similar to what you are doing. It is obvious that you have a serious interest in them. That I understand.
One question you might be asking here is what sparked each one of us to leave the org? I can bet that it won't be due to someone who planted seeds in their minds with "unwitnessing."
Here's how I fell out of the org. It was gradual. I had doubts early on. I just faded out. Not for another religion, not because anyone tried to un-witness to me, but because my own mind lead me out. I could see for myself what was wrong.
Also, I can tell you right now that if someone leaves the org due to wanting to join another religion, that will likely not work well for them if they are grasping for God or religion or human companionship even.
I left the org. It was only after I was free and clear of them that I got involved with other ways. I have studied certain philosophies and religions. I actually joined the Catholic church many years later.
As of right now, I have my own personal path that I don't try to convert anyone to. I am not in any organized religion now. It's a bit of Buddhism, God, Jesus, physics, music, visual art, and so on. It requires balance and being open minded. It's mine, and I could be wrong. To tell me that your way of thinking is THE way would not work with me now, and after the JW experience, I know it'll never work with me to hear anyone else's hard and fast "truth".
Be very careful. I say that because even with your denials of interest in them, putting too much in their court, like having a bible study with them, can trip a person up. As much as you deny it now, yes, even you could wind up joining them. Their offers of "unconditional love" their attention, their talk of feelings of family with everyone in their congregation. It is very enticing. They don't just "study" with people. They sell people on this wonderful, amazing life with them.
Being a JW is a way of life. And believe me, it isn't all that they talk it up to being. There is so much more to it than just the religion. It's what you wear, what your hobbies are, etc. You grow to be ashamed if you go to a friend's wedding in a church that isn't JW. If you have kids, they can't participate in a lot of things at school. Oh gosh, I could go on for hours, no doubt. But keep that in mind. When you are unwitnessing, you are dealing with someone who has a LOT at stake, including their marriage possibly.
If anyone could plant seeds it would be an ex JW. We have experienced it. We know what it is to be one. We feel it to our core. AND, we also know the pain of leaving. We've seen and talked to JWs who have been DF'd and have seen their pain at being dumped by the only friends they had and much of their family. Imagine being sick and having your own mother turn her back. Imagine getting married and you own parents not coming to the wedding, your own father not giving you away. This is about far more than just a religion.
This is such an all encompassing thing. If you want to plant seeds and feel so called, then do it. But don't expect much. And whatever you do, don't get sucked in. It is very unusual to find someone as interested at you are, and the truth is, you may be more vulnerable than you think right now.
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Michele ...... are you okay now? Goodness me ... if it doesn't rain it pours with that lot!
I haven't been in the forum for a few days and missed this one ..... however I DID have my door knocker last week. During the week. I instinctively knew it would be a jdub as I'm really hard to catch during the week (mum's taxi duties and all) and therefore knew it would be someone I didn't know. Yep. Opened the door and saw the leaflet in the hand of the woman and then looked up. It was a woman in her late 60s (perhaps even late 60s) whom I used to see regularly at meetings. She is very child-like for her age and seems to become more steadfast in the religion as time has marched on. She did escape for a while and married a non-witness but I think she 'inherited' her intellectually disabled older sister after their mum died and she has gone back in quite deeply. Because she is child-like ... I said 'no thank you ... have a nice day' and closed the door on her. My closing the door will be a definite sign of the apocalypse being on its way. Sad for her but she doesn't have the intellectual ability to see the bulldust from the bullshit.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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@Papillon I would like to apologize for hijacking your thread.
@cangie I am not furious with JW's for trying to entice my friend to join. JW's think they have the truth, they aren't trying to be malicious in any way. I know I am not an expert....if you have seen my posts I am always asking questions...I state that I am in the "learning mode." I know very well my friend could fall down the rabbit hole. If that happens...then it happens. Yes, it is her choice. Now, I understand why most of you feel that I am wasting my efforts. And yes that might be the end result. I dont know at this point of time if my efforts are going to work or not. I am giving it a try. I have lots of reasons for doing this, way more than just the one friend studying. I am not going to spend hours explaining in detail every single reason.
@Journey I attended church the first 17 years of my life and learned the Bible pretty well. I was raised to learn four different denominations.....Eastern Orthodox, Baptist, Luthern and Protestant. I learned different religions for the different members of my family. What does that mean? I celebrate LOTS of holidays. For example Christmas I celebrate on both December 25th and January 6th. The holiday celebrations alone means there is NO way I am joining JW. If I am vulnerable right now to anything....it would be loading my camera up with film and running far away to take pictures. lol! Unfortunately work and family responsibilities get in the way of that.
@auth I totally understand that you wouldn't recommend to do what I am doing. I think the fact that you and your family have an unspoken agreement to not discuss anything religious is probably the best thing.
@sg My plan is to keep trying, I have no idea if something I say will work or not. I am giving it a try. You are not a coward in any way. I think it's very admirable that it's important to you to maintain the peace in your family. It takes a lot of strength to NOT argue actually. Take it from me I know...lol.
@cacky I have a lot of reasons why I am doing this. It's fine that most people in this forum think I am wasting my time. I actually didn't think I would receive any response to my first post asking what I could say to someone. But, I did and people here were willing to answer my questions which I truly appreciated.
@birdwoman You already told me from the beginning that I should leave the "saving" of JW's to people who know how to switch on light bulbs. I decided that I am going to try anyway.
@Linda I agree....we don't always agree with each other. There is no way to predict the future outcome on what I am trying to do. I have no idea if what I am trying is going to work.
@Papillon....again I truly apologize for hijacking your thread.
In the interest of not continuing to hijack Papillon's thread if you want to respond to this post.....Please do it on my thread "Friend told me she is becoming a Jehovah's Witness." Thank you.
Last Edited By: HumbleLove 3 days ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Humble, please understand that you are welcome. If there is a problem, the MOds will move it the conversation to a more appropriate section.
I'd think, just my opinion, when anyone is recovering from religious abuse..it's just a lot of bullshit...and we must remain stong.
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Humble-No worries Honey. Sometimes threads go in completely different directions from the original topic and that's ok. As long as everyone gets to talk about what they need to in the thread, it's all good, imo. Love and hugs-Michele
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Thank you :). I am still very new around here and really didn't feel comfortable hijacking the thread.
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Oh heck HumbleLove, hijack away. LOL I think we all do it, even though we don't mean to. Even staying on topic, but looking at something from a different angle can cause the conversation to go in a new direction.
enjoy yourself.
The people that have been here for years seem to have a balance of sorts, yet if they still have family in the org, there is grief still to be had. But for those of us lucky enough not to have family still in, all we lost was a few friends, and that's easier to deal with. But facing real life is one thing we all, JWs, ExJWs, and never JWs, seem to have issues with at times. Happens to nearly everyone. So, sometimes a post going off on a tangent is a valuable thing. We get to see more angles of life.
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Journey wrote:
We get to see more angles of life.
I think this is what I like about this site. Even though this forum is dedicated to the recovery of its members. It has a lot of categories. Humor, Creativity, Book Discussion and Debate....etc. And it's really a great way to see "more angles of life in all these categories," from ex-JW, JW's, and the never JW's.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Humble- when I first started doing research into the JW - I had a lot of issues - some of the old sites were not edited and some very hateful things were spoken between members.
I love this site because Ronnie/Mods won't allow such hate-it's for recovery from whatever [even the non-JW].
I'm grateful that you choose staying with us. I get help...and that's a good thing.
Journey: It's interesting reading and doing research into various belief systems and it's also fun when we can switch subjects and find our beloved Billy Suggar woohooback to topic As Michelle mentioned, one thing leads to another...and that's how we get to know each other.
Love You...Keep posting...Lin and John
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Great thread, my friends.. well played by all.
I enjoyed reading the whole thing.
T
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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You know, It all plays out in the end.
Tim, as others, we just keep moving ahead from such hate. And I enjoy how you have shared your story too...
Life is an adventure...we continue doing research and share with each other.
For some of our newer members...it's just going to be an adventure where they learn recovery is possible and we'll help them.
Hugs purpleThrow heart kissesJohn and Lin
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offlinevinman
New Ex-JW in heart
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I am totally new to this. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I made it my own at the age of 5. I was a "True Believer ". I am 45. Served as an elder about 12 years and servant about 8. I am not some disgruntled man that will say my life was terrible as a witness. It was wonderful. I loved everything about it. Just sitting at a convention listening to the music prelude filled me with joy. I was a staunch Bible reader. Read every magazine since I was baptized at 13. It gave me joy morning and night. True, like many, I shelved some doubts, but I felt Jehovah and his Christ were far more important then my little life. I had planned on getting old in this system and dying "old and satisfied". Then one day about 4 months ago I started reading our "spiritual heritage " within the old publications. It was simply a curious journey. Nothing to try to criticize the Wt. Society. I can say many things, but the worship of Jesus till 1954 took me down hard. I ran into this in old Wt. magazines. I didn't enter an apostate site until I discovered this. The site only verified my worse fear. Then of course, this beautiful garment ( the organization) unravelled before my eyes. Now I see of course, that a person can't simply put their trust in these 8 men again. Their is no going back. It is illogical. Of course I'm very depressed but I feel I'm dealing with it. My wife and 4 kids (2 still are at home) are still active. I'm trapped between rock and a hard place. I feel i have read everything I can possibly read about the organization. My question is, when did you give yourself a break from all the reading about the organization? I seem to be rereading the sites. Simply because of the shock factor. I feel that I'm of the same disposition as Ray Franz. Why would i turn into some atheist just because the Watchtower is false? If you throw away the Bible after life in the Watchtower, that really tells you the power of that organization. You simply believed because Wt. said so. So i guess, if you are one that continues to read and meditate on the Bible, how long did it take before you could do this without distraction ( that is, without this obsession of reading other websites about ex-JW's)?
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status offlineLocutus
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Whoa vinman. Slow down and breathe!
Welcome to the 'red pill' society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill
many good people here with experience, who will help without any personal or religious agenda.
Last Edited By: Locutus A day ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlineauth
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Hi vinman.
Thanks for sharing your story.
I was also raised in the religion and had a period of a few years of committed belief (and being on the path to baptism) before I stopped associating.
The path taken after learning TTATT (the truth about the truth) is really personal. The only right path is the one that's right for you.
I intially wrote about my spiritual journey but it was a few paragraphs and I'm not sure it's relevant given that I'm not one who continues to read and meditate on the Bible.
Granted, there are many perfectly harmless, even beautiful, passages in the Bible but I can't view it anymore as a perfect guide to life.
Nevertheless, I can assure you that your confusion and disequilibrium are normal in the circumstances.
I share the experience of escaping my indoctrination and establishing a different foundation for meaning in my life.
Be patient with yourself and give yourself time to digest all of the new information you're getting and the emotions you're feeling.
You can come out on the other side of this as a more self-actualized human than you were before.
In retrospect, I view my experience as a stage in personal growth. Growth can be painful, like teething.
Welcome!
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinehalf banana
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Hi Vinman, welcome to propaganda free evaluation. It is a shock to the system when you realise that the organisation which has organised your thinking, your knowledge, time and activities and whole life perspective... is a phoney. This is no joke. The reason that it is a hard place to be is because the WTBTS claimed to be from God and by leaving this viewpoint the individual feels guilt towards God and his former fellow believers.
So you must be in a state of turmoil, not only religiously but with the family and friends who are of course Jdubs. We really do sympathise with you as most of us have been through it. As Locutus has said take it easy and breathe... the end of the world is NOT coming soon!
I agree with Auth as well in that leaving the confines of WT thinking gives the open ended opportunity to explore the world at large not the narrow Biblical imperatives. To leave the JW org is to grow up however old you are...but it does take a while to rewire your mind because the cultic thinking of the Watchtower required no effort to follow along with but ”real life” means personal responsibilities with hard decisions. Perhaps it takes a year or so to get sorted.
You ask a question “Why would I turn into some atheist just because the Watchtower is false?” The logic of your question gives the answer: there is no connection with leaving and belief in God. On the other hand the reason the WTBTS is wrong is the same one which supports all religious belief; that of hope in unseen and unprovable spirits and implicit belief in the divine origin of the text. The realisation that the org was wrong usually impels the individual to make a reality check on all religious claims. It is equally surprising to discover the origins of religious belief as it is to find the shady origins of the Watchtower .
So take it calmly and surely you must share your misgivings with your wife and family in a way which does not alienate them. Easier said than done however but keep in touch and wish you well on your journey.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlinepunkofnice
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Welcome Vinman. I was 50 when I left after being born in. I did it all. Pioneer, MS and Elder to boot. It was a shock when I learned how wrong the Watchtower is/was/will be. I went from JW to Christian to Spiritual to Atheist. That was my journey. In the mean time leaving the Org destroyed my family. that's how wicked the Org is!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
I wish to see the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses(R) put on trial for crimes against humanity and face absolute justice. Why? Consider the un-Biblical an dangerous 'Blood doctrine', Shunning and the protection of paedophiles and you may see why I feel this way.
status offlineSailAway
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Welcome Vinman! You will find this forum to be a safe place to decompress, vent and talk about what you need to talk about. I'm sorry you are feeling depressed. I, too,went into a deep depression after the initial euphoria of learning TTATT wore off. I began studying when I was nine. When I was in I was all in, just as you described. After 42 years I had my wake up call. I was simply unwilling to shun my son. I think we each have our shift in thought, crisis of conscience, whatever one might call it that leads us to examine everything we have ever believed to be true. As others have said, this will take time.
I have read that the average time to sort things out after leaving the organization is one month for every year you were in. That would be 42 months for me, and I would say that is about right. I have come to terms with my life in the organization and am busy rebuilding a new one. Please be gentle with your family. Steven Hassan has a revised edition for the 25th anniversary of his book, Combating Cult Mind Control. You can learn how to reach your family members authentic self. You need to learn how to relate to them without triggering their cult persona. It's very interesting and helpful reading.
I'm sure you must have heard about Ray Franz's books, Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. He remained a Christian after leaving the organization having served on the Governing Body.
May you have peace,
SailAway
status offlinevinman
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Appreciate all the kind words. Yes, I would say I fall into the Ray Franz mentality. The reason for that is simple. All my life I have gone way outside of the Watchtower when it comes to such things as authenticity of the Bible, evolution, and so forth. The Watchtower did not teach me to put faith in the Bible and God. Interestingly, a person can read a National Geographic about cavemen, other sources about the Bible, and not be disfellowshipped for apostasy. But you should never dare to read about your spiritual heritage and reason on it. I'm still "in". Very hard time now. I have my wife, 2 younger kids at home who have no idea how far I have gone. I fake family worship, go to meetings, and try to avoid service as much as possible. My life has never been bad. I can't say nothing good has come from it. I think that that itself is a trap. All the good does not change the real story. I like my life. I don't plan on becoming some disgruntled, cussing, drunkard all of a sudden. I simply wish I could just quietly walk away. I finally see why this is truly a cult. You really can't leave without huge upheavals. I never, ever, ever, dreamed I would be here. I was an elder, studied day and night, it was all about Jehovah and His son. I poured my heart and soul into it. I wasn't simply an organization man. In my mind, it was truly about God. I do understand why some kill themselves. I have always been a deep thinker. I explore science and psychology. But many in the organization that I have dealt with don't really have lives. You know what I mean. Anyway, as you can see. I am at the beginning of this long healing process.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Vinman - Wave Hirock on Just keep coming back and share your experience.
We've all been there and as someone else mentioned, there is so much research available, don't be afraid . We already know the WTBTS wants us living in fear - Years of research and bibles, the only one my fence-rider acknoweldged was the one published by the Society.
You'll learn that many members have done the gambit - lost family, etc...
It's probably time for me to re-read Ray Franz. It's always a good thing when we continue research. And,if I might we have other newer members that also need support.
Looking forward to you might continue posting. We all started on day at a time...and we also have fun...
Punkie - did you change your pic? Ya know that John and I want meeting so many of you...and that's a scary thoughtlaughing devil
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Hello and welcome Vinman!!
I totally understand your mixed feelings about finding out the facts about the organisation.......after all, as jw's we invest so much of our lives into the religion....for most of us, once we leave, we lose more or less everyone that made up our lives......
Of course that is why many refuse to even question the dictates of the religion, it is just too much to lose.......and even more so if partners and children are still in the mindset...as you are dealing with at this time....we have others in here who have been elders, and are made to feel like failures or disappointments to their family simply for opening their minds, and using their critical thinking
It's what the society always advocate, but of course that only applies to leaving a previous religion (as does apostacy)........leave any religion to join the jw's and you are welcomed with open arms.......try to leave and you are described as 'mentally diseased' smiley: sick
I also understand the need and desire to drink in everything that we denied ourseves whilst active.......once those blinkers have been removed, it becomes that much harder to conceive how so many intelligent people are held mentally captive by such obvious man-made doctrines,
I know how much courage it takes to be honest about something you have invested your life in......so well done for being brave enough to be true to yourself......only time will tell how this pans out with family......in some cases it provides the opportunity for loved ones to question themselves....but sadly in others it causes rifts and heartache....
I'm glad you found our place.......it doesn't alter the difficulties ahead, but it is always good to have people to discuss things with, especially those who truly understand what you are going through......who 'speak the same language'
Looking forward to hearing more from you
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlinePapillon1960
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vinman-I want to offer you a big, warm welcome. One thing you will learn as time goes by is that all "apostate sites" are is a safe place for ex-JWs in varying stages of recovery to go to heal from the cruelty, judgments, and shunning heaped on them by their JW family and friends. Some have been disfellowshipped and some have disassociated (me), and some have simply walked away, but what we all have in common is that we paid some price for doing so. It hurts terribly and way too many ex-JWs commit suicide from the pain they are feeling. Speaking for myself, I wonder if I would still be here if I hadn't had this site to go to for loving, kind, and compassionate support. If you are ever feeling like hurting yourself at any point in this process, please contact a mental health professional as well as coming here.
As far as the research you are doing goes, there is so much that you will learn about your faith that will shock you to your very core. I found myself feeling overwhelmed daily from this information. I started having to try and slow myself down in my research and take things one subject at a time. It wasn't so overwhelming that way and I learned a lot. It was still shocking and I found myself feeling rage at the thought that I had been duped so completely. I liked going to the sites that dealt strictly with the facts about the early days of Russell Bible Students. It is beyond bizarre.
So brace yourself, my friend. You are about to ride a wild roller coaster ride of emotions but know that you can always bring them here and be among those who understand how you are feeling. So glad to have you here. Love and hugs-Michele
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Hello and welcome, vinman. I too received a rude awakening after reading old bound volumes my mother had, though it was still several years before I left. Too many shifting beliefs. Too much of what I consider worship of the Governing Body. Though I am an atheist, that didn't come about because I left the Witnesses and became bitter toward all religions. I left the Witnesses and began reasearching other religions. I sat down and read the Bible, which led to me rejecting it. I've read the Qu'ran, the Book of Mormon, the Catholic Catechism and lots of books about Hinduism and Buddhism. None of it resonated with me. It was a long time before I would admit even to myself that I was atheist, but I am. That doesn't mean you're going to follow the same path. Plenty of us here ARE atheists, but plenty are Christians and probably other faiths as well. I guess what it comes down to is deciding what works for you.
status offlineSpiralblue
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Welcome Vinman! Oh what a wild ride this realization is. Everyone experiences TTATT somewhat differently. I realized I didn't believe 90% of what I was taught growing up, once the lightbulb came on in my head. I'd have to say it flickered and sputtered for quite awhile before it actually came on! smiley: laugh But, regardless of how you're feeling, remember you are the one who decides what you feel and believe. Wonderful to know.
Of course, the damage to us is the fact that family and friends don't understand, and the stress of not being able to express yourself is really tough. Does your wife know how you feel? Will she be upset? Too risky to ask her right now? I'm not saying you have to tell her now (or ever), but I ask because it turns out Mr. Spiral was feeling the same way, but for a different set of reasons. (Once we figured this out life got easier, but we still can't tell anyone else in the family.) The lightbulb moment did not hit us at the same time or in the same way. I think he still believes in religion and the bible, I could care less about any of it. I read these blogs and articles about the organization, but he does not. I am more "bitter" in my reaction to it than he is. In fact, we are pretty opposite in our reactions.
Just keep moving forward and you'll get through it. These forums are a priceless source of information and support.
Om........
Last Edited By: Spiralblue 13 hours ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlineGoingForth
#12 [-]
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@ Vinman:
Why would I turn into some atheist just because the Watchtower is false?
You don't have to.
In fact you need not "turn into" anything except yourself.
And you are already doing exactly that. As soon as you start thinking for yourself and are no longer afraid of yourself and your thoughts you are on your way to freedom.
You say you have a happy life--excellent--that will be your strength as you progress in your journey. Take it easy though. Not everyone will jump in and join you. As JWs we were "programmed" not to think for ourselves, we were told it was wrong in some sort of way to be "individuals." We were supposed to have the same "group think" and any deviation was looked on with suspicion and still is.
Give yourself time to sort things out. Trust yourself. If you are going to throw anything out, it will be a decision that you have reached after thought and research. You are just as worthy as anyone else.
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even touched—
They must be felt with the heart.”
Helen Keller
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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3 hours ago
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Going Forth - I enjoyed your post.
Freedom of thought - freedom to just be me...
anyhow, I did enjoy reading your post as I do others.
I've got Pink Floyd music playing and it's time to think about going back to bed.
It's the journey...Love Lin and John. He loves ya'll too. Throw heart kisses
status offlinevinman
Best Words I've Heard #14 [-]
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I think what you have said, is the best advice for everyone. What the Watchtower tells us is that we will be overtaken by the blackness of darkness once we cross this line. That our lives will fall apart. When I first discovered the TTATT, I did appear demonized. My heart was racing, and I couldn't stop telling my two older sons about what I had found. It was a mix of anger, sadness, desperation, you name it. They later even said I looked possessed. I have a story to tell that followed, that I will share later. But after just keeping quiet and meditating, I was able to think more clearly.
It is so obvious that you did not sin against holy spirit. I have absolutely no fear of Jehovah's judgements. Wow, the Watchtower has truly brainwashed it's people. Anyway, my point is simply that many ex-jw's lives do change, and not necessarily for the good. But it is not Satan. They just don't have coping skills. It is those types that the Watchtower likes to focus on and use as an example of how Satan has overtaken them. What a load of crap. Like you said, you just need to be yourself. I was on another forum a few days ago. I stopped because after being there 10 days, many were sounding like the GB, just with a different message. I came here to heal, not to become a person no one can no longer recognize. Thanks again.
status offlinevinman
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Sorry I did not mention who I was thanking in my last post.
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