Friday, November 28, 2014

AtheistNexus.org dicussion on Pope Francis and Evolution










Pope Francis confesses that Evolution and the Big Bang theory are right: God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'
Posted by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 28, 2014 at 9:50am in ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN
Back to ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN Discussions
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Here are some truths for Roman Catholic fundies, Archbishops and Muslims to assimilate.
Pope Francis accepts that the theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and declares that God is not “a magician with a magic wand”. Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, he made comments which experts said put an end to the fictions of creationism and intelligent design that his predecessor, Benedict XVI, had encouraged.
Francis explained that the two scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator--– arguing instead that they “require it”. He said: “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so”. Indeed, God “created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfilment. The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real . . . ”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declare...

Tags: Benedict, Big Bang, Evolution, Pope Francis, XVI



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Replies to This Discussion
 Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 28, 2014 at 1:28pm

Oh that's beautifully expressed.
 Permalink Reply by Jaime Leyton on October 28, 2014 at 1:43pm

Darwin & Huxley accepted!
Lamaître & Hubble accepted!
But still declares that both theories "require" God.
How long will it take to accept Hawking?

 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on October 28, 2014 at 1:52pm

About the same time that they admit that their outfit amounts to a two-millennia-old con game and that they are a bunch of detestable frauds.
I for one am not holding my breath.
 Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on October 28, 2014 at 5:54pm

Hawking has been a little ambivalent, I am told. He also has a history of embracing theories then discarding them for others 180-degrees apart.
 Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on October 28, 2014 at 5:42pm

Suspect Luara and others are right in saying there are RCC clerics who are atheists.
 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on October 28, 2014 at 6:38pm

The more educated a religious cleric may be in science, the more at risk his faith is liable to be!
 Permalink Reply by Jimmy McCann on October 30, 2014 at 4:29pm

Sends the christian god to the dustbin of history, hope he says hello to zeus and thor!
 Permalink Reply by Connor Galletly 2 hours ago

Well, this seems like another episode of 'God of the Paradox'. More proof for the Catholics to doubt their religion, since the Pope is supposed to be the messenger of God himself. And since he confesses to evolution, that means he contradicts the first twenty or so chapters of Genesis, and words of Leviticus, Numbers, etc referring back to it. Religious people can easily ignore those contradicitons in the bible, but how can the Catholics ignore their leader? This alongside with the Pope being outvoted; God being outvoted by the high ranking bishops of the world over the sin of homosexuality and it's acts, is something more. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of respect for the new Pope, but he needs to get his act together. And finally, this will still not help the first cause argument at all. God is still omnipresent, and ever lasting in history apparently.

Way to go, Catholicism.



http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/originsuniverselifehumankindanddarwin/forum/topics/pope-francis-confesses-that-evolution-and-the-big-bang-theory-are?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A2512317&xg_source=activity&groupId=2182797%3AGroup%3A109911
















 









Pope Francis confesses that Evolution and the Big Bang theory are right: God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'
Posted by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 28, 2014 at 9:50am in ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN
Back to ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN Discussions
.



Here are some truths for Roman Catholic fundies, Archbishops and Muslims to assimilate.
Pope Francis accepts that the theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and declares that God is not “a magician with a magic wand”. Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, he made comments which experts said put an end to the fictions of creationism and intelligent design that his predecessor, Benedict XVI, had encouraged.
Francis explained that the two scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator--– arguing instead that they “require it”. He said: “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so”. Indeed, God “created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfilment. The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real . . . ”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declare...

Tags: Benedict, Big Bang, Evolution, Pope Francis, XVI



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5 members like this
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Views: 426
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Replies to This Discussion
 Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 28, 2014 at 1:28pm

Oh that's beautifully expressed.
 Permalink Reply by Jaime Leyton on October 28, 2014 at 1:43pm

Darwin & Huxley accepted!
Lamaître & Hubble accepted!
But still declares that both theories "require" God.
How long will it take to accept Hawking?

 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on October 28, 2014 at 1:52pm

About the same time that they admit that their outfit amounts to a two-millennia-old con game and that they are a bunch of detestable frauds.
I for one am not holding my breath.
 Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on October 28, 2014 at 5:54pm

Hawking has been a little ambivalent, I am told. He also has a history of embracing theories then discarding them for others 180-degrees apart.
 Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on October 28, 2014 at 5:42pm

Suspect Luara and others are right in saying there are RCC clerics who are atheists.
 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on October 28, 2014 at 6:38pm

The more educated a religious cleric may be in science, the more at risk his faith is liable to be!
 Permalink Reply by Jimmy McCann on October 30, 2014 at 4:29pm

Sends the christian god to the dustbin of history, hope he says hello to zeus and thor!
 Permalink Reply by Connor Galletly 2 hours ago

Well, this seems like another episode of 'God of the Paradox'. More proof for the Catholics to doubt their religion, since the Pope is supposed to be the messenger of God himself. And since he confesses to evolution, that means he contradicts the first twenty or so chapters of Genesis, and words of Leviticus, Numbers, etc referring back to it. Religious people can easily ignore those contradicitons in the bible, but how can the Catholics ignore their leader? This alongside with the Pope being outvoted; God being outvoted by the high ranking bishops of the world over the sin of homosexuality and it's acts, is something more. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of respect for the new Pope, but he needs to get his act together. And finally, this will still not help the first cause argument at all. God is still omnipresent, and ever lasting in history apparently.

Way to go, Catholicism.




http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/originsuniverselifehumankindanddarwin/forum/topics/pope-francis-confesses-that-evolution-and-the-big-bang-theory-are?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A2512317&xg_source=activity&groupId=2182797%3AGroup%3A109911









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Humanistic Judaism embraces a human-centered philosophy that celebrates Jewish culture without supernatural underpinnings. Humanistic Jews value their Jewish identity and the aspects of Jewish culture that offer a genuine expression of their contemporary way of life. We believe in the human capacity to create a better world.

At last, humanists who identify with Jewish history and culture, who prize their Jewish roots and want to participate in Jewish holidays and programs without reference to God or the supernatural, have a place …. No more “wondering” around, alone in the wilderness! (Central Ohio Humanist, May-June 2010).


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Recent News
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SHJ Condemns Attack on Jerusalem Synagogue

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CFI: Secular Humanism Is Not a Religion

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10.26.14
Communicable Diseases Need Calm Response

10.24.14
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10.02.14
Scalia Says Constitution Favors Religion


View All






Welcome To The Society For Humanistic Judaism

If you believe that cultural Judaism is important to a contemporary Jewish identity and that cultural Jewish communities and an organized Humanistic voice enhance the Jewish experience for secular and Humanistic Jews, then SHJ is for you.

Humanistic Judaism embraces a human-centered philosophy that celebrates Jewish culture without supernatural underpinnings. Humanistic Jews value their Jewish identity and the aspects of Jewish culture that offer a genuine expression of their contemporary way of life. We believe in the human capacity to create a better world.

At last, humanists who identify with Jewish history and culture, who prize their Jewish roots and want to participate in Jewish holidays and programs without reference to God or the supernatural, have a place …. No more “wondering” around, alone in the wilderness! (Central Ohio Humanist, May-June 2010).


Learn More
 
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Giving Tuesday December 2, SHJ 2014 Campaign are scholarships for HuJews Conclave.
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1 day ago
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Registration for 2015 HuJews Conclave available. Deadline for registration is Feb 9 for scholarships is January 19. Please mark your calendars.


2015 Michigan HuJews Conclave Registration Form - Formstack
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Science supports that giving makes you feel good. Support the Society for Humanistic Jud... See More


Food, Sex and Giving to Charity
forward.com
1 day ago
View on Facebook
Think about the Society for Humanistic Judaism when you buy on Amazon.com for the ho... See More
1 day ago
View on Facebook
We are grateful to all our SHJ supporters now and throughout the year. Have a safe, happy Thanksgiving from the Society for Humanistic Judaism.
1 day ago
View on Facebook
Article in the New Jersey Jewish News on my upcoming visit to Kahal Chaverim where I will talk about the Pew study. The reporter got what I said almos... See More


Humanist leader finds solace in Pew Study data
njjewishnews.com
1 week ago
View on Facebook
Adam Chalom, rabbi of Kol Hadash Humanistic Congregation and dean of the ... See More
1 week ago
View on Facebook
International Institute for Secular Humanistic Judaism Dean Adam Chalom speaks at The Birmingham Temple Congregation for Humanistic Judaism to open Co... See More


Friday Night Service Welcoming IISHJ Board and Faculty, with Talk by Rabbi Adam Chalom
vimeo.com
1 week ago
View on Facebook
Our condolences to the families who suffered the sad loss of their husbands and fathers in the attack on an Israeli synagogue this morning.


Attack on worshipers in synagogue sets deadly precedent - Diplomacy and Defense
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Over the past three years, Standing on the Side of Love (SSL) supporters co-created a beautiful expression of our faith called Thirty Days of Love. From... More > 
Nov 24, 2014 No Comments | Share | Tweet
365 Days of Love: Love Resources you can use all year
Thanks for checking out these resources from past Thirty Days of Love that you can use all year round! This year, we are excited to... More > 
Nov 20, 2014 1 Comment | Share | Tweet
Transgender Day of Remembrance: Living into Solidarity
On the eve of Trans Day of Remembrance 2014, Standing on the Side of Love’s Campaign Coordinator Nora Rasman sat down with Lourdes Ashley Hunter,... More > 
Nov 10, 2014 1 Comment | Share | Tweet
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As a Unitarian Universalist Minister who serves as an Army Reserve chaplain, I have seen the wounds that our veterans carry, both physical and spiritual.... More >   
  
 
rssIN THE NEWS

NC couples and court officials prepare for historic day when gay marriage is legal Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/10/09/3735363_nc-couples-and-court-officials.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
The State | Oct 09, 2014
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Same-sex couples begin to marry in Virginia
The Washington Post | Oct 06, 2014
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Door County resumes issuing same-sex marriage licenses
Greenbay Press Gazette | Oct 06, 2014
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Two national church leaders to speak at immigration conference in Akron
Ohio.com | Sep 12, 2014
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Why We March: Five Individuals Share Their Stories
The Indypendent | Sep 12, 2014
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7 Ways for Interfaith Families to Find Community
The Huffington Post | Sep 11, 2014
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Climate Change and Disaster Recovery: The Soul of Our Work Together
Gotham Gazette | Sep 04, 2014
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Nov 24, 2014 No Comments | Share | Tweet
365 Days of Love!
Over the past three years, Standing on the Side of Love (SSL) supporters co-created a beautiful expression of our faith called Thirty Days of Love. From... More > 
Nov 24, 2014 No Comments | Share | Tweet
365 Days of Love: Love Resources you can use all year
Thanks for checking out these resources from past Thirty Days of Love that you can use all year round! This year, we are excited to... More > 
Nov 20, 2014 1 Comment | Share | Tweet
Transgender Day of Remembrance: Living into Solidarity
On the eve of Trans Day of Remembrance 2014, Standing on the Side of Love’s Campaign Coordinator Nora Rasman sat down with Lourdes Ashley Hunter,... More > 
Nov 10, 2014 1 Comment | Share | Tweet
For our veterans
As a Unitarian Universalist Minister who serves as an Army Reserve chaplain, I have seen the wounds that our veterans carry, both physical and spiritual.... More >   
  
 
rssIN THE NEWS

NC couples and court officials prepare for historic day when gay marriage is legal Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/10/09/3735363_nc-couples-and-court-officials.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
The State | Oct 09, 2014
Share | Tweet 

Same-sex couples begin to marry in Virginia
The Washington Post | Oct 06, 2014
Share | Tweet 

Door County resumes issuing same-sex marriage licenses
Greenbay Press Gazette | Oct 06, 2014
Share | Tweet 

Two national church leaders to speak at immigration conference in Akron
Ohio.com | Sep 12, 2014
Share | Tweet 

Why We March: Five Individuals Share Their Stories
The Indypendent | Sep 12, 2014
Share | Tweet 

7 Ways for Interfaith Families to Find Community
The Huffington Post | Sep 11, 2014
Share | Tweet 

Climate Change and Disaster Recovery: The Soul of Our Work Together
Gotham Gazette | Sep 04, 2014
Share | Tweet 
 More News >   

GET INVOLVED
         
   

CONNECT WITH US
facebook twitter youtube myspace pintrest pintrest
  

MORE VIDEOS »Videos
VIDEO: Members of All Souls Unitarian DC on why to vote!
Members of All Souls Unitarian DC on why to vote!



VIDEO: Vote on the side of love!
Vote on the side of love!


  

MORE PHOTOS »PHOTOS




Civil Disobedience
 
  

Leo Tolstoy's photo Leo Tolstoy

 All, everything that I understand, I understand only because I love.
  

 
Standing on the Side of Love is made possible by the generosity of individual donors and gifts to the Annual Program Fund and Friends of the UUA.
Home | Privacy Policy | Accessibility | Site Map | Contact Us ©2014 Standing on the Side of Love. All Rights Reserved. 
        

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Wikipedia news from November 26th, 2014





 



 
   
   






        







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Welcome to Wikipedia,
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4,656,566 articles in English

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From today's featured article


Garbage
"The World Is Not Enough" is the theme song of the 1999 James Bond film of the same name, performed by alternative rock group Garbage (pictured in 2012). The song was written by composer David Arnold, who also scored the film, and lyricist Don Black, previously responsible for four other Bond songs. "The World Is Not Enough" was composed in the traditional style of the series' title themes contrasting with the post-modern production technique and genre-hopping sound that Garbage had established on their first two albums. Garbage recorded the majority of "The World Is Not Enough" while touring Europe, telephoning Arnold as he recorded the orchestral backing in London before travelling to England themselves. Afterwards the band finished production of the song in Canada. The lyrics reflect the point of view of the film's antagonist Elektra King, with themes of world domination and seduction. The song and accompanying soundtrack were released by Radioactive Records as the film premiered around the world at the end of November 1999. Upon release, "The World Is Not Enough" was widely acclaimed by reviewers, and reached the top forty of ten singles charts. (Full article...)
Recently featured: Biscayne National Park – Haflinger – Franklin Pierce
Archive – By email – More featured articles...

Did you know...


From Wikipedia's new and recently improved content:

Fossil T. johnsoni
... that at the time of description, the extinct Tilia johnsoni (pictured) was the oldest basswood macrofossil occurrence?
... that Keshavlal Dhruv compiled fifteenth century Gujarati poems and published them in 1927?
... that Chinese astronomer Qu Qinyue was sent to work at a coal mine during the Cultural Revolution?
... that the Eurovision Song Contest 2014 won the International TV Award at the Ondas Awards, in Barcelona?
... that Benguela Province witnessed an influx of many IDPs during the Angolan Civil War?
... that the Audenried Tunnel, the Catawissa Tunnel, the Green Mountain Tunnel, the Oneida Number One Tunnel, and the Oneida Number Three Tunnel were all built in the Catawissa Creek watershed in the early 1930s?
... that higher-speed rail is actually a lower train speed category than high-speed rail?
Archive – Start a new article – Nominate an article

 
In the news


Magnus Carlsen
Rioting breaks out in Ferguson, Missouri, and protests occur across the United States, after a grand jury decides not to indict the police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown.
Magnus Carlsen (pictured) defeats Viswanathan Anand to retain the World Chess Championship title.
In motor racing, Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton wins the Formula One championship.
Opposition candidate Klaus Iohannis is elected President of Romania.
The 9th G-20 summit concludes in Brisbane, following discussions focusing primarily on economic issues.
With world leaders from 21 Pacific Rim countries attending, the APEC Economic Leaders' Meeting concludes in Beijing.
Ongoing: Ebola outbreak – Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
Recent deaths: Pat Quinn – Viktor Tikhonov – Mike Nichols

On this day...


November 26: Feast day of John Berchmans (Roman Catholic Church)

The "Golden Dome" of the University of Notre Dame's Main Administration Building
43 BC – Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus, and Mark Antony formed the Second Triumvirate alliance.
1842 – The University of Notre Dame (main administration building pictured) in South Bend, Indiana, US, was founded as an all-male institution by members of the Roman Catholic Congregation of Holy Cross.
1939 – The Soviet Red Army shelled Mainila and then claimed that the fire originated from Finland, giving them a casus belli to launch the Winter War a few days later.
1977 – A speaker claiming to represent the "Intergalactic Association" interrupted the Southern Television broadcast in South East England, warning viewers that "All your weapons of evil must be destroyed."
2008 – A coordinated group of shooting and bombing attacks across Mumbai began, ultimately killing a total of 173 people and wounding more than 300 others.
More anniversaries: November 25 – November 26 – November 27
Archive – By email – List of historical anniversaries
It is now November 26, 2014 (UTC) – Reload this page




Today's featured picture


The Heart of the Andes
The Heart of the Andes is an oil painting on canvas completed by the American landscape painter Frederic Edwin Church in 1859. It shows an idealized view of the Andes, which Church visited in 1853 and 1857. When it was first exhibited, the painting was a popular success, viewed by more than 12,000 people in a little less than a month. Poetry and music were written about it, and the painting was ultimately sold for $10,000 – at that time the highest price ever paid for a work by a living American artist. The Heart of the Andes was bequeathed by the owner, Margaret Dows, to the Metropolitan Museum of Art upon her death in 1909.
Painting: Frederic Edwin Church
Recently featured: Astrolabe – Arundhati Roy – Musk duck

Archive – More featured pictures...




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Jump to: navigation, search



Welcome to Wikipedia,
the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
4,656,566 articles in English

 Arts
Biography
Geography
 History
Mathematics
Science
 Society
Technology
All portals



From today's featured article


Garbage
"The World Is Not Enough" is the theme song of the 1999 James Bond film of the same name, performed by alternative rock group Garbage (pictured in 2012). The song was written by composer David Arnold, who also scored the film, and lyricist Don Black, previously responsible for four other Bond songs. "The World Is Not Enough" was composed in the traditional style of the series' title themes contrasting with the post-modern production technique and genre-hopping sound that Garbage had established on their first two albums. Garbage recorded the majority of "The World Is Not Enough" while touring Europe, telephoning Arnold as he recorded the orchestral backing in London before travelling to England themselves. Afterwards the band finished production of the song in Canada. The lyrics reflect the point of view of the film's antagonist Elektra King, with themes of world domination and seduction. The song and accompanying soundtrack were released by Radioactive Records as the film premiered around the world at the end of November 1999. Upon release, "The World Is Not Enough" was widely acclaimed by reviewers, and reached the top forty of ten singles charts. (Full article...)
Recently featured: Biscayne National Park – Haflinger – Franklin Pierce
Archive – By email – More featured articles...

Did you know...


From Wikipedia's new and recently improved content:

Fossil T. johnsoni
... that at the time of description, the extinct Tilia johnsoni (pictured) was the oldest basswood macrofossil occurrence?
... that Keshavlal Dhruv compiled fifteenth century Gujarati poems and published them in 1927?
... that Chinese astronomer Qu Qinyue was sent to work at a coal mine during the Cultural Revolution?
... that the Eurovision Song Contest 2014 won the International TV Award at the Ondas Awards, in Barcelona?
... that Benguela Province witnessed an influx of many IDPs during the Angolan Civil War?
... that the Audenried Tunnel, the Catawissa Tunnel, the Green Mountain Tunnel, the Oneida Number One Tunnel, and the Oneida Number Three Tunnel were all built in the Catawissa Creek watershed in the early 1930s?
... that higher-speed rail is actually a lower train speed category than high-speed rail?
Archive – Start a new article – Nominate an article

 
In the news


Magnus Carlsen
Rioting breaks out in Ferguson, Missouri, and protests occur across the United States, after a grand jury decides not to indict the police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown.
Magnus Carlsen (pictured) defeats Viswanathan Anand to retain the World Chess Championship title.
In motor racing, Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton wins the Formula One championship.
Opposition candidate Klaus Iohannis is elected President of Romania.
The 9th G-20 summit concludes in Brisbane, following discussions focusing primarily on economic issues.
With world leaders from 21 Pacific Rim countries attending, the APEC Economic Leaders' Meeting concludes in Beijing.
Ongoing: Ebola outbreak – Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
Recent deaths: Pat Quinn – Viktor Tikhonov – Mike Nichols

On this day...


November 26: Feast day of John Berchmans (Roman Catholic Church)

The "Golden Dome" of the University of Notre Dame's Main Administration Building
43 BC – Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus, and Mark Antony formed the Second Triumvirate alliance.
1842 – The University of Notre Dame (main administration building pictured) in South Bend, Indiana, US, was founded as an all-male institution by members of the Roman Catholic Congregation of Holy Cross.
1939 – The Soviet Red Army shelled Mainila and then claimed that the fire originated from Finland, giving them a casus belli to launch the Winter War a few days later.
1977 – A speaker claiming to represent the "Intergalactic Association" interrupted the Southern Television broadcast in South East England, warning viewers that "All your weapons of evil must be destroyed."
2008 – A coordinated group of shooting and bombing attacks across Mumbai began, ultimately killing a total of 173 people and wounding more than 300 others.
More anniversaries: November 25 – November 26 – November 27
Archive – By email – List of historical anniversaries
It is now November 26, 2014 (UTC) – Reload this page




Today's featured picture


The Heart of the Andes
The Heart of the Andes is an oil painting on canvas completed by the American landscape painter Frederic Edwin Church in 1859. It shows an idealized view of the Andes, which Church visited in 1853 and 1857. When it was first exhibited, the painting was a popular success, viewed by more than 12,000 people in a little less than a month. Poetry and music were written about it, and the painting was ultimately sold for $10,000 – at that time the highest price ever paid for a work by a living American artist. The Heart of the Andes was bequeathed by the owner, Margaret Dows, to the Metropolitan Museum of Art upon her death in 1909.
Painting: Frederic Edwin Church
Recently featured: Astrolabe – Arundhati Roy – Musk duck

Archive – More featured pictures...




Other areas of Wikipedia
Community portal – Bulletin board, projects, resources and activities covering a wide range of Wikipedia areas.
Help desk – Ask questions about using Wikipedia.
Local embassy – For Wikipedia-related communication in languages other than English.
Reference desk – Serving as virtual librarians, Wikipedia volunteers tackle your questions on a wide range of subjects.
Site news – Announcements, updates, articles and press releases on Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation.
Village pump – For discussions about Wikipedia itself, including areas for technical issues and policies.

Wikipedia's sister projects
Wikipedia is hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation, a non-profit organization that also hosts a range of other projects:
Commons Commons
 Free media repository MediaWiki MediaWiki
 Wiki software development Meta-Wiki Meta-Wiki
 Wikimedia project coordination
Wikibooks Wikibooks
 Free textbooks and manuals Wikidata Wikidata
 Free knowledge base Wikinews Wikinews
 Free-content news
Wikiquote Wikiquote
 Collection of quotations Wikisource Wikisource
 Free-content library Wikispecies Wikispecies
 Directory of species
Wikiversity Wikiversity
 Free learning materials and activities Wikivoyage Wikivoyage
 Free travel guide Wiktionary Wiktionary
 Dictionary and thesaurus

Wikipedia languages

This Wikipedia is written in English. Started in 2001, it currently contains 4,656,566 articles. Many other Wikipedias are available; some of the largest are listed below.
More than 1,000,000 articles: Deutsch ·
 español ·
 français ·
 italiano ·
 Nederlands ·
 polski ·
 русский ·
 svenska
  
More than 400,000 articles: català ·
 فارسی ·
 日本語 ·
 norsk bokmål ·
 português ·
 Tiếng Việt ·
 українська ·
 中文
  
More than 200,000 articles: العربية ·
 Bahasa Indonesia ·
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 Esperanto ·
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 한국어 ·
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 српски / srpski ·
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More than 50,000 articles: български ·
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 ไทย
  
Complete list of Wikipedias
 




Navigation menu



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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization.
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Tuesday, November 25, 2014

AtheistNexus.org story about an ex-Jehovah's Witness







Greetings
Posted by Brian on December 27, 2009 at 11:04pm in Introductions
View Discussions
.



Hello everyone, glad to be here.
 My name is Brian and for the first 25 years of my life I was a Jehovah's Witness. A few years ago I noticed some "inconsistencies" (actually, they were baldfaced assertions that even my washed brain couldn't accept) in some of the Watchtower Society's (that's the JW organization) teachings. I think I always had atheist leanings, and I remember I once told a friend that I'd probably be an atheist if I wasn't a JW. She didn't like that one bit and I had to backpedal.
 I think ironically that the JW approach to religion is what helped me consider the possibility that no God exists at all. They did such a good job in my mind of debunking the crap out of other churches that I truly believed that if the JWs weren't true, nothing else could be. Since then, I've done some studying and have come to the conclusion that the JWs are just as biblically off-base as every other Christian denomination; following the Bible really close in some areas and "interpreting" it away in others.
 What got me started on this path was actual dialog with atheists on social networking sites like digg and reddit. The JWs don't like their followers to entertain other religious viewpoints that aren't first pass through Watchtower Society filters (e.g. the actual beliefs but mangled, twisted, and chock-full of shit they just made-up). This unfiltered conversation kept "converting" me on more and more topics. It was getting harder and harder to reconcile what I was being taught at church to what I now knew to be the truth to the best of my knowledge; weaving the faith in with the facts.
 I always appreciated logic and reason, and one of the big things that led me to my baptism in the church was that I believed there was a logical basis for my belief. That appreciation is what eventually led me out of it, as I was no longer able to convince myself that my faith and the facts could be reconciled. One night, I was typing a comment on a website responding to a particularly poor Christian argument, and I typed the phrase "I'm an atheist." I stared at those words for a long time. In fact I left the computer and had to lie down for a while. I thought to myself "am I part of this religion because I believe it, or because I don't want to lose everything; my family, my friends, my entire social network?"
 I thought long and hard and decided that I should stop pretending and admit what I had gradually accepted over the past few months prior: I was an atheist. I finished my comment and clicked the "submit" button, and with that mouse click I sealed my fate.
 For those of you who aren't familiar, Jehovah's Witnesses aren't very keen on people outside the church (that is, when they're not trying to recruit you, if they are, they'll be incredibly nice to you), and when someone who was in the church decides to leave, all hell breaks loose. They practice strict shunning, a form that is more strict than the Amish. I personally know one former JW who was kicked out of his home for violating the code of conduct (sex before marriage) and refusing to marry a 17-year-old girl within six months of the deed's discovery. It tore him up for nine years until I showed him Crisis of Conscience and he was finally able to free himself mentally from the shackles of the JW religion. The JWs teach that even saying one word to a "disfellowshipped" person is a gross sin and even grounds for disfellowshipping the person who said it. They even tell their members to limit contact with excommunicated family members as much as possible, speaking to them only when absolutely necessary.
 Needless to say, my parents were very upset when they heard about my lost faith. My dad had me over for a "debate" but I wasn't prepared. I brought up a few points, but he just talked over me. I just nodded and kept quiet. Today, I probably would have fought more, but I didn't have the "experience" back then I have now. Surprisingly though, they kept it on the d/l to the elders of the church, on the premise that I would "behave" myself--i.e. not date "worldly" girls (and in my "status" I wasn't good enough for JW girls anyway, so basically no dating period), and no contacting long-lost excommunicated friends. After about a year of this, I started meeting up with hobby groups I found on meetup.com. Eventually, I started to like the "worldly association" that had always been condemned.
 Last year, I started dating the woman who became my wife this past September. In fact, it was New Years' Eve as I was playing WoW with one of the few JW friends I had left that my "indiscretions" were forced out in the open. From that point forward, I was shunned completely by my family. I find it funny. For over a year I told my parents over and over I was an atheist and no longer believed the Witnesses drivel, and it was the revelation that I was no longer a virgin that sent them over the edge.
 I think it's kind of an odd fascination with sex most JWs have. They have this saying that most people who leave their religion do so because of "immorality"--sex outside of marriage. I wonder how many of those "sex-crazed lunatics" were actually just people like me who had given up on the religion a long time ago and just started living our lives the way we wanted. I know they'd rather blame their declining membership on lack of "self-control" as opposed to people knowing the ins-and-outs of their doctrine and saying "yeeeeah...thanks but no thanks," so that's probably the purpose it serves.
 Anyway, sorry for the long post, and I promise I'll try not to bring up JW stuff all the time. I'm still recovering, but I hope one day to fully become an ex-ex-Jehovah's Witness.






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 Permalink Reply by Kalypso on December 28, 2009 at 8:45am

Welcome to A/N Brian. Reality is awesome!
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Nate on December 28, 2009 at 11:41am
Greetings. I recognize you from one of the ex-JW forums. Nice to see you here, Brian.
I think I always had atheist leanings, and I remember I once told a friend that I'd probably be an atheist if I wasn't a JW...
 I often said the same and heard it from some others too. I really have a tough time understanding those that leave the Witnesses to end up in another religion.
I think ironically that the JW approach to religion is what helped me consider the possibility that no God exists at all. They did such a good job in my mind of debunking the crap out of other churches that I truly believed that if the JWs weren't true, nothing else could be. Since then, I've done some studying and have come to the conclusion that the JWs are just as biblically off-base as every other Christian denomination; following the Bible really close in some areas and "interpreting" it away in others.
 Very accurate observation.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Cardinal Bird on December 28, 2009 at 12:02pm
Thank you for sharing! I am sure you will find SEVERAL people on this site who share similar backgrounds and struggles. Our religious past has given us the opportunity to evolve as a culture of "mostly" ethical people. I try to tell my family that I agree with the good parts of the bible (Jesus had some nice things to say) from an ethical standpoint. But all the other junk is just BS! And, I don't need to believe it in order to have a wonderful, happy, ethical life.
 My positive spin on atheism is this: I love life more than the religious believers because this is the only life we have. One shot! I appreciate every day more than they do because I know that one day it will be gone forever. I wake up happier everyday now that I have reconciled in my own mind that there is no God looking over me. I don't have to lie to myself. They sort of understand?? Or maybe are beginning to?
 I admire your convictions and hope you continue to maybe one day change your familys views of your new way of life.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Skeptic on December 28, 2009 at 5:56pm
Great to have you here Brian!
 It's funny how every religion finds it so simple to debunk every other religion.
 One of the things I have said to my many Christian family and friends that always seems to make them stop and think is this:
 Do you think it is possible for someone to live their entire lives believing and following their holy scriptures, worshiping their god, praying and having their prayers answered, literally feeling god working in their lives etc. AND YET they are totally delusion? Is it even possible?
 Most people assume I am talking about them, so they say "NO, that's not possible"

 Then explain the 1.2 Billion Muslims on the planet. Or the 800 million Hindus. Of course it's possible. Everyone out there must be delusional, except you of course- what you feel is real. They claim to feel the same thing, but they must be delusional...
 Anyway, thanks for sharing. And congrats on taking the big step. We've all been shunned in one way or another, so you're not alone!
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Greetings
Posted by Brian on December 27, 2009 at 11:04pm in Introductions
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Hello everyone, glad to be here.
 My name is Brian and for the first 25 years of my life I was a Jehovah's Witness. A few years ago I noticed some "inconsistencies" (actually, they were baldfaced assertions that even my washed brain couldn't accept) in some of the Watchtower Society's (that's the JW organization) teachings. I think I always had atheist leanings, and I remember I once told a friend that I'd probably be an atheist if I wasn't a JW. She didn't like that one bit and I had to backpedal.
 I think ironically that the JW approach to religion is what helped me consider the possibility that no God exists at all. They did such a good job in my mind of debunking the crap out of other churches that I truly believed that if the JWs weren't true, nothing else could be. Since then, I've done some studying and have come to the conclusion that the JWs are just as biblically off-base as every other Christian denomination; following the Bible really close in some areas and "interpreting" it away in others.
 What got me started on this path was actual dialog with atheists on social networking sites like digg and reddit. The JWs don't like their followers to entertain other religious viewpoints that aren't first pass through Watchtower Society filters (e.g. the actual beliefs but mangled, twisted, and chock-full of shit they just made-up). This unfiltered conversation kept "converting" me on more and more topics. It was getting harder and harder to reconcile what I was being taught at church to what I now knew to be the truth to the best of my knowledge; weaving the faith in with the facts.
 I always appreciated logic and reason, and one of the big things that led me to my baptism in the church was that I believed there was a logical basis for my belief. That appreciation is what eventually led me out of it, as I was no longer able to convince myself that my faith and the facts could be reconciled. One night, I was typing a comment on a website responding to a particularly poor Christian argument, and I typed the phrase "I'm an atheist." I stared at those words for a long time. In fact I left the computer and had to lie down for a while. I thought to myself "am I part of this religion because I believe it, or because I don't want to lose everything; my family, my friends, my entire social network?"
 I thought long and hard and decided that I should stop pretending and admit what I had gradually accepted over the past few months prior: I was an atheist. I finished my comment and clicked the "submit" button, and with that mouse click I sealed my fate.
 For those of you who aren't familiar, Jehovah's Witnesses aren't very keen on people outside the church (that is, when they're not trying to recruit you, if they are, they'll be incredibly nice to you), and when someone who was in the church decides to leave, all hell breaks loose. They practice strict shunning, a form that is more strict than the Amish. I personally know one former JW who was kicked out of his home for violating the code of conduct (sex before marriage) and refusing to marry a 17-year-old girl within six months of the deed's discovery. It tore him up for nine years until I showed him Crisis of Conscience and he was finally able to free himself mentally from the shackles of the JW religion. The JWs teach that even saying one word to a "disfellowshipped" person is a gross sin and even grounds for disfellowshipping the person who said it. They even tell their members to limit contact with excommunicated family members as much as possible, speaking to them only when absolutely necessary.
 Needless to say, my parents were very upset when they heard about my lost faith. My dad had me over for a "debate" but I wasn't prepared. I brought up a few points, but he just talked over me. I just nodded and kept quiet. Today, I probably would have fought more, but I didn't have the "experience" back then I have now. Surprisingly though, they kept it on the d/l to the elders of the church, on the premise that I would "behave" myself--i.e. not date "worldly" girls (and in my "status" I wasn't good enough for JW girls anyway, so basically no dating period), and no contacting long-lost excommunicated friends. After about a year of this, I started meeting up with hobby groups I found on meetup.com. Eventually, I started to like the "worldly association" that had always been condemned.
 Last year, I started dating the woman who became my wife this past September. In fact, it was New Years' Eve as I was playing WoW with one of the few JW friends I had left that my "indiscretions" were forced out in the open. From that point forward, I was shunned completely by my family. I find it funny. For over a year I told my parents over and over I was an atheist and no longer believed the Witnesses drivel, and it was the revelation that I was no longer a virgin that sent them over the edge.
 I think it's kind of an odd fascination with sex most JWs have. They have this saying that most people who leave their religion do so because of "immorality"--sex outside of marriage. I wonder how many of those "sex-crazed lunatics" were actually just people like me who had given up on the religion a long time ago and just started living our lives the way we wanted. I know they'd rather blame their declining membership on lack of "self-control" as opposed to people knowing the ins-and-outs of their doctrine and saying "yeeeeah...thanks but no thanks," so that's probably the purpose it serves.
 Anyway, sorry for the long post, and I promise I'll try not to bring up JW stuff all the time. I'm still recovering, but I hope one day to fully become an ex-ex-Jehovah's Witness.






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Replies to This Discussion
 Permalink Reply by Kalypso on December 28, 2009 at 8:45am

Welcome to A/N Brian. Reality is awesome!
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Nate on December 28, 2009 at 11:41am
Greetings. I recognize you from one of the ex-JW forums. Nice to see you here, Brian.
I think I always had atheist leanings, and I remember I once told a friend that I'd probably be an atheist if I wasn't a JW...
 I often said the same and heard it from some others too. I really have a tough time understanding those that leave the Witnesses to end up in another religion.
I think ironically that the JW approach to religion is what helped me consider the possibility that no God exists at all. They did such a good job in my mind of debunking the crap out of other churches that I truly believed that if the JWs weren't true, nothing else could be. Since then, I've done some studying and have come to the conclusion that the JWs are just as biblically off-base as every other Christian denomination; following the Bible really close in some areas and "interpreting" it away in others.
 Very accurate observation.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Cardinal Bird on December 28, 2009 at 12:02pm
Thank you for sharing! I am sure you will find SEVERAL people on this site who share similar backgrounds and struggles. Our religious past has given us the opportunity to evolve as a culture of "mostly" ethical people. I try to tell my family that I agree with the good parts of the bible (Jesus had some nice things to say) from an ethical standpoint. But all the other junk is just BS! And, I don't need to believe it in order to have a wonderful, happy, ethical life.
 My positive spin on atheism is this: I love life more than the religious believers because this is the only life we have. One shot! I appreciate every day more than they do because I know that one day it will be gone forever. I wake up happier everyday now that I have reconciled in my own mind that there is no God looking over me. I don't have to lie to myself. They sort of understand?? Or maybe are beginning to?
 I admire your convictions and hope you continue to maybe one day change your familys views of your new way of life.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Skeptic on December 28, 2009 at 5:56pm
Great to have you here Brian!
 It's funny how every religion finds it so simple to debunk every other religion.
 One of the things I have said to my many Christian family and friends that always seems to make them stop and think is this:
 Do you think it is possible for someone to live their entire lives believing and following their holy scriptures, worshiping their god, praying and having their prayers answered, literally feeling god working in their lives etc. AND YET they are totally delusion? Is it even possible?
 Most people assume I am talking about them, so they say "NO, that's not possible"

 Then explain the 1.2 Billion Muslims on the planet. Or the 800 million Hindus. Of course it's possible. Everyone out there must be delusional, except you of course- what you feel is real. They claim to feel the same thing, but they must be delusional...
 Anyway, thanks for sharing. And congrats on taking the big step. We've all been shunned in one way or another, so you're not alone!
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Beautiful and sad all in one
 hace 3 semanas
  





 Avatar for karinita_99 
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I LOVE EVANESCENCE
 if you´re an evanescence fan talk to me in msn: karivadi99@hotmail.com
 hace 2 años
  





 Avatar for karinita_99 
karinita_99  Responder
I LOVE EVANESCENCE
 if you´re an evanescence fan talk to me in msn: karivadi99@hotmail.com
 hace 2 años
  






L

Lu1$  Responder
101 aquí també hi ets tu...
 hace 3 años
  






i

imaginary06  Responder
Amo esta cancion. Por siempre Evanescence lo mejor!!
 hace 5 años
  






X

Xioffla  Responder
MUy buena music T.T
 Me trae muitos recuerdos :(
 hace 5 años
  






M

Miliki90  Responder
adoro esta canción, me pone los pelos de punta.... ^^
 hace 5 años
  






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hermione  Responder
es hermosa la letra mas linda para lloorar!!!
 hace 6 años
  






L

LOVE12  Responder
las mejores de la mejores
 hace 6 años
  






j

jlcb14  Responder
I'm so tired of being here
 Suppressed by all my childish fears
 And if you have to leave
 I wish that you would just leave
 'Cause your presence still lingers here
 And it won't leave me alone
 These wounds won't seem to heal
 This pain is just too real
 There's just too much that time cannot erase
 When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
 When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
 And I held your hand through all of these years
 But you still have
 All of me
 You used to captivate me
 By your resonating life
 Now I'm bound by the life you've left behind
 Your face it haunts
 My once pleasant dreams
 Your voice it chased away
 All the sanity in me
 I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
 But though you're still with me
 I've been alone all along
 hace 6 años
  






H

Hada Azul  Responder
trae tantos... sentimientos... es perfecta.
 T.T
 hace 6 años
  






b

boothy  Responder
sad song :'(
 hace 7 años
  






k

kiketron700  Responder
Al no se le rompe el corazon con este tema, es porque ya no lo tiene.
 hace 7 años
  






b

brunoar  Responder
Evanescence rocks!! An Amy Lee more!
 hace 7 años
  






m

m3fis  Responder
es bonita...si senor (^_^)
 hace 7 años
  






*

*yO*  Responder
mui limda :)
 hace 7 años
  





   

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Beautiful and sad all in one
 hace 3 semanas
  





 Avatar for karinita_99 
karinita_99  Responder
I LOVE EVANESCENCE
 if you´re an evanescence fan talk to me in msn: karivadi99@hotmail.com
 hace 2 años
  





 Avatar for karinita_99 
karinita_99  Responder
I LOVE EVANESCENCE
 if you´re an evanescence fan talk to me in msn: karivadi99@hotmail.com
 hace 2 años
  






L

Lu1$  Responder
101 aquí també hi ets tu...
 hace 3 años
  






i

imaginary06  Responder
Amo esta cancion. Por siempre Evanescence lo mejor!!
 hace 5 años
  






X

Xioffla  Responder
MUy buena music T.T
 Me trae muitos recuerdos :(
 hace 5 años
  






M

Miliki90  Responder
adoro esta canción, me pone los pelos de punta.... ^^
 hace 5 años
  






h

hermione  Responder
es hermosa la letra mas linda para lloorar!!!
 hace 6 años
  






L

LOVE12  Responder
las mejores de la mejores
 hace 6 años
  






j

jlcb14  Responder
I'm so tired of being here
 Suppressed by all my childish fears
 And if you have to leave
 I wish that you would just leave
 'Cause your presence still lingers here
 And it won't leave me alone
 These wounds won't seem to heal
 This pain is just too real
 There's just too much that time cannot erase
 When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
 When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
 And I held your hand through all of these years
 But you still have
 All of me
 You used to captivate me
 By your resonating life
 Now I'm bound by the life you've left behind
 Your face it haunts
 My once pleasant dreams
 Your voice it chased away
 All the sanity in me
 I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
 But though you're still with me
 I've been alone all along
 hace 6 años
  






H

Hada Azul  Responder
trae tantos... sentimientos... es perfecta.
 T.T
 hace 6 años
  






b

boothy  Responder
sad song :'(
 hace 7 años
  






k

kiketron700  Responder
Al no se le rompe el corazon con este tema, es porque ya no lo tiene.
 hace 7 años
  






b

brunoar  Responder
Evanescence rocks!! An Amy Lee more!
 hace 7 años
  






m

m3fis  Responder
es bonita...si senor (^_^)
 hace 7 años
  






*

*yO*  Responder
mui limda :)
 hace 7 años
  





   

Relacionados
Cover
Bring Me To Life
 33,195
.
Cover
Call me when you're sorb...
 16,430
.
Cover
Evanescence - Wake Me Up...
 12,539
.
Cover
everybody´s fool
 9,427
.
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