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← The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out? →
Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
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Posted on October 23, 2015
The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower's correspondence department
The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower’s correspondence department
The last few weeks will have been deeply frustrating for the Governing Body, as multiple leaks have exposed a growing resentment of their attitudes and policies among an increasing number of bethel workers.
And now a fresh leak from a Watchtower insider has blown the lid wide open on how the organization deals with issues affecting the rank and file.
“Correspondence Guidelines” is a 118-page document issued to key staff at bethels around the world, giving cookie-cutter responses to a long list of scenarios involving various doctrines.
Previously only available to a privileged few, a 2011 edition of the document is now freely available, effectively meaning that anyone who has the document knows how Watchtower will reply to almost any letter they write before they even put pen to paper.
For the avoidance of further entanglements with Watchtower’s legal department over its interpretation of copyright law, we at JWsurvey have decided not to distribute the Correspondence Guidelines on this website.
Whether you, the reader, choose to access the material from elsewhere on the internet is entirely your decision.
pictureThe Correspondence Guidelines were virtually unheard-of until mentioned by former Governing Body member Ray Franz in his follow-up to Crisis of Conscience – In Search of Christian Freedom – on page 242.
in-search1 The subject list continues over a further two pages before Franz summarizes on page 245…
in-search2After spending an hour or so last night perusing the pages of this fascinating document, I can fully concur with Franz’s characterization of it as “Talmudic.” A plethora of subject headings delve into areas as diverse as transvestism, refugees, animal blood, hermaphrodites, sterilization and “retarded persons” with giddying pedantry.
The writers of the document themselves seem to recognize how ridiculous it is by their attempts at defending it in their opening remarks…
Bear in mind that much of what is published on matters of conduct is to be viewed not as law but rather as mature Christian counsel. So it is not always necessary to think in terms of imposing sanctions if a person does not fully conform to the counsel given.
But this disclaimer is overtly contradicted on only the next page…
If the one inquiring reflects a challenging, disrespectful attitude, it may be advisable first to contact the elders to determine the person’s standing in the congregation and what assistance they have been able to render.
Therefore, anyone who writes to the organization with anything other than praise and flattery, or who gives the impression they know what they’re talking about, can expect their local elders to get a phonecall – an underhanded breach of confidence that surely represents a “sanction” in and of itself.
Further contradictions present themselves as the reader delves into the various subjects. For example, accepting a blood transfusion without regret, even if it proves to be life-saving, remains a disfellowshipping offense…
A baptized person who willfully and unrepentantly takes a blood transfusion thereby chooses to reject the Scriptural sanctity of blood and violates God’s law. Three elders (not a judicial committee) should meet with him. If a blood transfusion has been accepted without repentance, the congregation will consider that the person has disassociated himself. It would then be announced: “[Name of individual] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” The matter would be dealt with as in other cases of disassociation.—w86 10/15 31; w73 9/1 543-4.
But if you happen to be a JW nurse or doctor, and you are instructed to administer a blood transfusion to a non-JW patient, you can do so without fear of reprisals…
A Christian who is a nurse or a doctor respects the Scriptures and therefore would not recommend or order a blood transfusion for a patient. If he or she as an employee is not responsible for deciding the matter and is directed by a superior to administer a transfusion to a non-Witness, whether to obey is a matter for personal, conscientious decision.—w99 4/15 28-30; w75 4/1 215-16.
On the other hand, if you’re a farmer and allow a blood transfusion for one of your animals, expect a slapped wrist at the very least…
It is not proper for a Christian to administer a blood transfusion to an animal owned by him or to authorize another to do so.—w64 2/15 127-8.
Since this is a 2011 edition, we have no way of knowing whether the subject of child abuse has been addressed more comprehensively in more recent editions (which seems likely given all the media exposure on that subject since the Candace Conti victory in 2012).
Even so, given the fact that mishandling of child abuse among Jehovah’s Witnesses has been highlighted since at least 2002 (when BBC Panorama and Dateline documentaries first exposed the issue to a mass audience), you would expect the safeguarding of the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses from sexual predators to merit more column inches than, say, discussing the propriety of Tae Bo.
But child molestation gets only three passing mentions in this document. Pages 41 and 110 give far-from-unequivocal guarantees that molesting a child will prevent a Witness male from serving in a position of responsibility.
For example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.
Some who are guilty of child molestation, even if not disfellowshipped for such actions, might never qualify for special privileges in the congregation.
Then on page 53 the writers ponder the situation of a minor girl who is raped and falls pregnant. Rather than worrying about the girl’s well-being and the urgent need to pursue justice for her assailant, attention turns to the living arrangements of the resulting baby, and whether the abused child will have to marry her attacker or not.
Child that results either from fornication or from rape of a minor girl: The father of the single, minor girl (or the mother in a singleparent home where there is no father) bears the responsibility to decide whether the infant will be raised in the home or elsewhere. It shows consideration on his part to consider the minor’s valid wishes. He must also decide whether to permit the girl to marry the male who caused the pregnancy. Being pregnant does not require marriage to the father of the child simply to avoid illegitimacy. A hasty or improper marriage may only make a bad situation worse. Emotional support from individuals in the congregation is sometimes helpful.
The failure of the writers to adequately explore and address what we now know to be a rampant problem of child abuse in the organization, with 1,006 suspected pedophiles on the records of Watchtower in Australia alone, highlights either stunning naivety on the part of the Governing Body (who will have sanctioned this material), or deliberate negligence of their duty to protect children from a clear threat.
Ray Franz described the "Correspondence Guidelines" as "Talmudic"
Ray Franz described the Correspondence Guidelines as “Talmudic”
The proper handling of domestic violence, also a huge problem in the organization, is similarly given short shrift. Page 51 briefly mentions court action as being favorable in the case of a violently abusive husband for the protection of his victim, but nowhere does it suggest that a believing woman who finds herself in such a situation would be allowed to find happiness with a new husband.
In contrast to the terse treatment of such a pressing issue that affects battered spouses in countless marriages, nine pages are devoted to the various nuances of divorce, adultery and remarriage. Every conceivable permutation of marital infidelity is explored in fanatical detail.
Again, “Talmudic” is the only word that can do justice to Watchtower’s obsession with sex and morals. And only the word “pharasaical” can describe their corresponding indifference to the countless victims, past, present and future, of physical abuse in its various forms.
Finally, I was struck by the section on “bloodguilt,” which had the following to say…
The Bible condemns murder, a sin for which a person may be disfellowshipped.—Rev. 21:8.
Bloodguilt may also be incurred if a person causes loss of life through carelessness or because of violating a traffic law or other safety law of Caesar. If a Witness is liable for someone’s death in an accident, the elders should investigate and if warranted appoint a judicial committee to hear the matter, for the congregation wants to avoid community responsibility for bloodguilt.
One can’t help but wonder just how much blood is on the hands of Watchtower leaders past and present, from Knorr to the likes of Morris, Splane and Lett, for the countless lives that have been lost due to the ridiculous prohibitions on blood.
How many lives have been brutally cut short as a result of indoctrinated cult victims declining medical treatment with blood, a practice on which the scriptures are silent? We may never know. And that is to say nothing of the unknown number who have ended their lives as a result of Watchtower’s ruthless shunning practices.
One thing is certain, namely that the Governing Body won’t be making changes to save lives or protect the vulnerable any time soon. But at least there is some comfort in knowing that a growing number within bethel corridors are awakening to the full reality of a shared struggle, and working with myself and others to give thorough exposure to this devastating cult.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾PDF download of Crisis of Conscience, by Ray Franz
◾PDF download of In Search of Christian Freedom, by Ray Franz
◾Recent articles on leaks related to downsizing
Related video…
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← The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out? →
343 Responses to Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
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Chloe says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:45 am
If your not interested in seeing literal blowing of “lids” DO NOT go to this link. Is October fools day over Croatia?
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Chloe says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:08 am
That’s what I get for not typing in http… Thanks Lloyd! This amazing!! Fantastic article as well.
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Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:21 am
Thanks Chloe, glad you found your way to the material! :)
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James says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:50 am
I think Chloe is referring to the fact that the shortened link actually directs to a gay porn website!
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James says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:52 am
Oh, it seems to be case-sensitive.
Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 10:35 am
Thanks – I’ve changed the link to avoid this problem. Sorry about that!
Summer says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:44 pm
And here i thought i was gobsmacked..
Turns out it was just a technical foul
RC says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:46 am
Thank you Lloyd for your discussion on the Correspondence guidelines. It so happens that i stumbled upon this document . Coincidence of course . Further ammunition to confront my misguided cousin on JW practices.
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Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:54 am
Congratulations. You’re not the only one who has revealed to have coincidentally had disclosure of a sensitive Watchtower document immediately after I’ve helped make it available to everyone, making it impossible to verify your claim. Interesting timing.
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Garrett says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:50 am
Thank you Lloyd for your hard work on this,
And thank you to our spies on the inside in Beth-Hell who give us “food at the proper time”.
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BG says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:03 am
That’s funny, beth hell…
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BG says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:06 am
Thank you for directing us to the document on correspondence. It’s nice to have this info.
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RC says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:51 am
We who are in India suffering from seeing our loved ones in this cult have immensely benefited from your timely suggestions. Keep up the good work Lloyd. This is one of the few sites which has helped us where there are scarce helpful resources available. I lost my cousin to this cult 7 years ago . Now we are trying to get him back.
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Susannah says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:57 am
The link to the document is case sensitive. If you do not put the link as it is with uppercase then you will go to some nasty stuff.
Great article, thanks Lloyd
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Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:59 am
Thanks Susannah! I would give more detailed instructions but I don’t want to risk making it too easy! 😉
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noblemindedthinker says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:58 am
Here is a nice little bit of disgusting hypocrisy for you
Correspondance Guidelines page 96 on Segregation –
Where the law of the land legislates certain segrega- tion practices, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not flout such laws. Also, we take into consideration predominating local sen- timents and customs. While not endors- ing segregation, Jehovah’s Witnesses keep foremost in mind the commission to preach the good news, not making a big issue of segregation or integration any more than Christians in the first century made an issue of slavery.
Watchtower 1987 Sep 1 p.13 –
“This command from the Highest Level of authority in the universe put the responsibility upon each Israelite to report to the judges any serious wrongdoing that he observed so that the matter might be handled. While Christians are not strictly under the Mosaic Law, its principles still apply in the Christian congregation. Hence, there may be times when a Christian is obligated to bring a matter to the attention of the elders. True, it is illegal in many countries to disclose to unauthorized ones what is found in private records. But if a Christian feels, after prayerful consideration, that he is facing a situation where the law of God required him to report what he knew despite the demands of lesser authorities, then that is a responsibility he accepts before Jehovah. There are times when a Christian must obey God as ruler rather than men. Acts 5:29”
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Shelia Noyah says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:00 am
Keep in mind that segregation policy was followed to the letter in the Deep South of the United States when Jim Crow laws were enforced. There were segregated assemblies held, and there were “separate but equal” administrative hierarchies for Afro-American (Negroes) and Whites–no standing up for beliefs. Integration of the Kingdom Halls only happened in some holdout locations well after 1975. After integration the White administration of circuit and district regions often assumed total control relegating former Black CO and DO to Northern and West Coast duties or retirement to pioneer.
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Meredith J says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:05 pm
I wonder how many would have joined up if we had known their conservative stance on segregation? I don’t live in the Land of Liberty but really, 1975? Disgraceful. Another sin shoved under the rug.
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Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 10:56 pm
I meant ‘stand’.
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Tara says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:24 am
There are a number of Witnesses who work in our local hospital. Would this mean that if, when they were dealing with documents, blood work etc and your name came up on screen for having a blood transfusion they would, to clear their ‘Christian conscience’ feel free to go to the elders with the info? If that being so, would the patient having just cause to suspect this breach of confidentiality be able to take the elders and the witness to court or would they be able to weasle their way out of it?
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noblemindedthinker says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:36 am
It certainly is possible. The official doctrine is that God’s law overrides mans law and JW’s are duty bound to inform on their fellow witnesses even when it requires breaking the law to do so.
Read an example of this actually happening
in “In Search of Christian Freedom” pp. 365-368
https://www.watchtowerlies.com/linked/in_search_of_christian_freedom_franz.pdf
In this case the Doctor realized that he was indeed exposed to the possibility of a lawsuit and increased his liability coverage to cover him from this exposure.
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Tara says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:58 am
Thank you for that info. Not sure if I am totally saddened or totally infuriated. Probably both. Thank goodness we have sites like this which seek to help us wake up and smell the roses so we know who our enemy is.
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Summer says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:53 pm
I worked as an RN over 26 yrs…in that time…twice i had JWs as patients…both were in ICU…when push came to shove…both finally accepted BTs..
Not once did i think to snitch…
Just saying
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Tara says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:41 am
We need more like you Summer :) I could name at least three in our hospital who would run straight to the elders with a fat cat smile on their faces.
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Actigall Ur says:
October 23, 2015 at 3:16 pm
You want something disgusting to ponder over that proves the JW cult is NOT following the bible but their OWN interpretation of it?
Notice this phase that they use dozens of times in the Correspondence Outline:
“things contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
Read that again.
“things contrary to Bible truth AS TAUGHT BY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES.”
Now I’ve heard that before but at the time, when my brain was still in zombie mode, it wasn’t clear what it really means. AS TAUGHT BY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES.
NOT “TAUGHT BY THE BIBLE OR GOD THROUGH THE BIBLE.”
Once again, I’m STUNNED at how incredibly BRAIN WASHED I WAS FOR ALL THOSE YEARS!
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dee says:
October 24, 2015 at 10:01 am
Watchtower October 1, 1967 pg. 587:
“…..the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason, the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind”.
Watchtower February 15, 1981 pg. 19:
“We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ organization”.
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dee says:
October 24, 2015 at 10:21 am
@Actigall Ur:
Watchtower September 1954, pg.528:
“In view of its unbreakable connection with the Christian Theocratic organization, the Bible is organization-minded and it cannot be fully understood without our having the Theocratic organization in mind…….all sheep in God’s flock must be organization-minded like the Bible.”
Watchtower May 1957, pg.274:
“If we are to walk in the light of truth, we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our father but his organization as our ‘mother’ “.
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jose says:
October 23, 2015 at 5:59 am
Yup, things just got real… And Mr. Franz discoveries wont be in vain. I also thought how strange we are encourage to look intently at the “Reward”, but at the same time its a “free gift” its a paradox.
Thank you Cedars for the info.
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Mamajane says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:00 am
I wonder how much longer it will be before God exposes them fully for the world to see? I hope I live to see it.
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Chiafade says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:02 am
Incredible! Copy and paste answers for those who are asking questions for their individual concerns. It seems that if we have written letters ourselves in the past and never received an answer we can just find it ourselves.
Thank you for posting this Lloyd and thanks to the individual that leaked this for all to see. It was always clearly apparent that anything critical would go to the local elders. This would ensure that you were investigated for heresy. If such was the case they could remove you or offer to study/reprogram you by means of consecutive visits.
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Chiafade says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:48 am
Refusal to provide for family: Adamant refusal to provide for wife and/or children when having the means to do so, leaving them destitute.—1 Tim. 5:8; w88 11/1 22-3; km 9/73 8.
So in light of what is happening to special pioneers and bethelites in 2016 can the above ruling be applied to the JW.org?
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Chiafade says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:53 am
Heres another goody: Work that is not in itself unscriptural but that closely links one with a wrong practice or makes one a promoter of it: EXAMPLE: A brother learns that a small portion of the equipment he normally makes on a line producing commercial aircraft will now be diverted to a use out of harmony with Isaiah 2:4.
Does being the majority shareholder for a company that develops a special engine for the military a violation of being “out of harmony” with Isaiah 2:4?
This is going to provide endless ammo. I can’t wait to hear the excuses the witnesses make.
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Pow says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:47 am
Ammo, as in making ammo, surly that’s a no, no…
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JD says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:06 am
just remember exact and case sensitive – thanks
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Tara says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:26 am
Thank you Lloyd and our friend in Bethel.
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dontknowwheretogo says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:29 am
Shall get my hands on the document from *somewhere* and read it later but I’m thinking that Lloyd will start to really irrate the GB with this…not for this article in itself but rather the several mentions in this post and Lloyd’s last few posts of the moles inside Bethel that are leaking it.
I would hazard a guess they will up their efforts a lot to find out who they are and expel them. I’m sure both Lloyd and the moles are aware of this.
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Jaak says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:30 am
Off-topic, but I heard this one recently :
The congregation of Houthalen (Belgium) is closing and all JW have to move to Zolder, a near congregation.
Not a big deal you would say but the thing is the land(actually there is place for 3 Residentials) was gifted by an elderly couple.
The older couple lived next to it, for them it would be really easy if they could go to the meeting just the door next to their house.
You can understand that the the people are not happy with this, they lose their money they spend on it and now they have to drive 10km further or so.
I think i should share this with you all.
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Patrick Haeck says:
October 24, 2015 at 7:31 am
Can we get in touch, Jaak?
Mvg,
Patrick
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Arlis Scott says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:54 am
I’ve read some of this document, and my head hurts just reading some ofit. Oh lord, no wonder they don’t want this public, it is such a derogatory and delusional form of cult if there ever was one. Holly crap! I’m soooooo glad I’m out!
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jw_secrets says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:16 am
RIP RayFranz!
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David says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:20 am
They are worse than the Pharisees. It is very disturbing going through that long list. That is totally not Christian. They make people slave not free.
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Nancymnd says:
October 26, 2015 at 12:55 am
Ditto. My dad was an elder and I had no idea this document existed and I thought I knew everything. They are the Jewish nation that Jesus condemned. Man’s rules are subject to conscience in cases of emergency, blood transfusions are a man made rule, in emergencies, you can save a life. I can ignore a Stop sign if a truck is bearing down on me and I have to speed through to get myself to safety or dash to the side of the road ignoring the stop signs and stop lights. If you can save an animal that fell down a well on the sabbath you can save a person’s life. So called God’s laws are not breakable, like gravity, laws of nature, you can break it but probably will get hurt and might die. JWs are amazingly blind to all their man made rules with their threats of shunning and disfellowshipping, this document just makes me furious.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:28 am
Thank you Lloyd and thanks to the very brave whistleblower at Bethel ….. I went to the meeting last night…first one in a month… and there was a letter read from the almighty all knowing GB asking for donations from the congregation for the Global Work…this was aside from the usual contributions and our little congregation donated 350 pounds….(multiply that and more by a few thousand congregations!) ..we have already donated the majority of the money we had in the bank not that long ago…it seems things are getting desperate…I have never known in my 57 years as a JW the request for money being so so important… And up went all the hands…Im sick of it… I watched a documentary about Scientology the other day…. the comparison was incredible…. uniforms next!
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almost anonymous says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:54 am
Yes. All the hands went up, but in reality no one is giving. If you do the math in our congregation, we should be wallowing in all the money they keep asking for, but the monthly financial statements keep on showing that we run in the red all the time.
Not quite sure where they are getting the money every month to send to the Society.
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Chiafade says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:37 am
That’s becoming more common. Usually it’s the elders or just one wealthy elder that ends up paying the bill.
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wifibandit says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:37 pm
Was it this letter?https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5O25TquiW0xb0ZpX2dLTzN0eU0/view?usp=sharing
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abc says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:37 am
Unable to dowload from send space any other link please
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wifibandit says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:41 pm
Rumor has it some unscrupulous individuals, with no respect for US Copyright law, are trading in such files here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3pweu5/cedars_article_on_latest_leak_highlysecretive/cwa1u8x
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Finn Sawyer says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:51 am
Lloyd,
This is a significant release. Thank you.
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george says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:55 am
Might be off topic, but I just watched the OCT jw TV program, two observations I like to share
the GM member mentioned Jw should do kind work, which includes helping fellow worshipper in the congregation. Making me wonder this implies congregation will help those dismissed special pioneer and bethel workers. good timing.
do kind work to outsiders, GM member mentioned and praised an experience: two Jws took cares of an elderly Catholic, even treating him like a family member. Making me wonder whether anyone giving them counsel on being too close to someone in false religion.
sounds pretty fake.
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Chiafade says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:45 am
It’s possibly very fake. One thing for sure is that it’s very very uncommon. The reason they included that in the broadcast is two or even threefold. I know for sure that since their charity status is being questioned they want to make sure that some segment was included showing them “encouraging the witnesses to be charitable”. The second you already mentioned. Taking care of special pioneers and bethelites who are getting the boot. Even the revised O.D. book included a paragraph on ” taking care of the needy in the congregations “.
Despicable leaders who count on the gullibility of their followers.
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Pow says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:01 am
Ok, guys let’s give the original Pharisees a little slack, at least they were willing to put all their laws out in the open. We have 1000’s of rules and the vast majority are not seen by the publishers eyes…we’re all left guessing, .what really is the will of the g.b? I think the most ardent Pharisee might be aghast at the level of rule making we have now achieved. I say let’s go head to head with the Mishnah right now, I pull out all the rules , hell, we can probably sink them just on judicial committee rules alone.
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ForestDaughter says:
October 24, 2015 at 2:31 am
My thoughts too. Even under Talmudic law, if there’s a situation in which the choice is between either keeping the law or saving a life, the emphasis is on saving the life. Blood is sacred but life is even more so.
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San Diego says:
October 24, 2015 at 2:45 pm
It seems a bit ironic that the GB forbits blood transfusions, even if it means death, and as support for that idea use Scriptures that say “Life is in the blood.” Um, hello? Anybody notice a contradiction here? If “life is in the blood”, then you need blood for life. Therefore, at times, without any better alternative, blood transfusions are needed.
Second, wasn’t it King Saul who forbade his army from eating anything until they had won a certain military battle, resulting in the men eating the animal meat along with the blood? Saul wanted to punish someone, but when he inquired of Jehovah, Jehovah ignored him. Saul was even going to put Jonathan his son to death, but the men stopped him. What I draw from that account is that God wasn’t angry at the men for eating the blood, or at Jonathan for breaking Saul’s arbitrary rule, rather he was angry at Saul for being so unreasonable. And when it comes to blood transfusions, the GB is equally unreasonable. They have so much blood on their hands, how is it they have not been arrested by the NYPD for this?
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 28, 2015 at 2:19 am
They get away with murder because they coerce Witnesses to signing the blood card and all the legal papers concerning end of life etc. with witnesses in their presence and all the papers say that we are doing this because of our God trained conscience but the reason is because we are being made to do it or else we will be shunned if we take blood.
It has nothing to do with our signing those papers by our trained conscience. It has to do with them making us do it or else!! We either sign them or be shunned for not signing those papers. If we refuse to sign those papers, it makes it look like we would take it. I always took my papers home and never signed them but I did carry my blood card in my wallet until I woke up from the indoctrination.
The Society gets away with it because they have lawyers to write up that stuff so they can get away with murder.
Kids believe in Santa Claus so in order to get toys at Christmas time, they will be good. Witnesses believe in the new world and they believe what the Watchtower says, so they will be good and sign the papers even if they have doubts because they are so afraid of being shunned if they don’t sign the papers and carry the blood card.
The Watchtower has no answers for why it’s okay to take fractions and fractions not be called blood. That was their answer of hoping that some of those Witnesses will take some “parts” of blood and not die so the Watchtower doesn’t look quite as bad as when they couldn’t even take fractions to live.
They don’t have the guts to come right out and say they were wrong because of all the people that died needlessly. They are despicable cowards!
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 11:38 am
The GB put more value on blood than they do on life!
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 11:49 am
Sorry, blood is sacred but your life isn’t so no transfusion for you! Sorry, you will just have to die!
What madness, what a contradiction!
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 12:15 pm
Sorry, your life is just not as important as the sacredness of blood!
dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 9:16 pm
It’s all about the sacredness of the blood – your life isn’t sacred, the blood is so you can’t get a blood transfusion to save your life. So deal with it!………craaaaazeeee!!!!!!
Robert67 says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:08 am
Thank you so much for this JWSurvey, I’ve read Crisis of Conscious, but was not aware of his other book. Will start reading immediately. Two great gifts for victims of this cult in one article. God bless
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dee says:
October 23, 2015 at 6:45 pm
@Robert 67:
Don’t know if you have read this one but
CAPTIVES OF A CONCEPT, written by a former elder, is also a good book to read: http://www.captivesofaconcept.com
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Robert67 says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:22 pm
On it, thank you.
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San Diego says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:23 am
“Perhaps a request can be made for the military ceremony to be dispensed with”, in the case of a veteran who commits suicide. Unbelievable.
“A Christian woman threatened with rape should resist strenuously, including screaming and physically resisting, where possible.” And then it goes on to forbit the learning of any technique that would actually help her to resist her attacker.
They call apostates mentally diseased? These men are among the most mentally diseased I’ve ever seen.
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Summer says:
October 23, 2015 at 10:00 pm
This is why i now ALWAYS carry my sidearm.
Reply
Donald duck says:
October 24, 2015 at 12:14 am
@san diego, I couldn’t agree more! I’ve agrued with my husband about this over and over… Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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ForestDaughter says:
October 24, 2015 at 2:48 am
‘ “A Christian woman threatened with rape should resist strenuously, including screaming and physically resisting, where possible.” And then it goes on to forbit the learning of any technique that would actually help her to resist her attacker.’
How disgusting; they aren’t concerned about her being able to get away unharmed. They couldn’t care less if she’s traumatised and physically hurt. All they care about is her keeping their laws.
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Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 11:04 pm
When I was studying in the early ’80s, the pompous sister I studied with, who I never really liked, related a story of a woman who was raped in Central Park, NY. The victim put her fingers down her throat and threw up all over her attacker, who quickly fled.
This sister went on to explain to me that unless we were prepared to vomit all over our attacker on purpose then we deserved to be raped. In my head, I thought. “Man, that’s crazy.” Sounds like it’s this crazy thinking that drives their doctrines. Why did they always have to be so controversial?
Reply
San Diego says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:09 am
There is no making sense of it. It’s a religion that claims respect for women, but when it comes to the important things, they really have no concern for a woman’s well-being or self-esteem.
A sister once asked me if abortion was allowed if it resulted from rape. She said she thought it should be. I agreed, but said I didn’t know. Well, here’s the answer: “Abortion is wrong in cases involving adultery, fornication, or even rape.” And that is actually under the subheading about a minor girl. That right there says volumes about how much they care about women and girls. They should just say: “It’s a personal matter, and it’s none of our business” (because it’s not).
Reply
JBob says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:33 am
Are you sure this is the UPDATED version, ‘cuz, page 80, “Meetings,” and I allude to–,
“newly interested ones may enroll in the TMS”
???
Lloyd you may post your link to the “censored” JWSurvey article on meeting revisions… :-)
Reply
Covertfade says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:35 am
Lloyd, a massive thank you and to the brave anonymous source who made this available.
If anyone is curious as to how this might be used to help in discussions with indoctrinated JW’s who are having doubts, look at the section dealing with membership of organisations, ask them if they agree with the council given, and then maybe discuss the documented and verified membership that the Watchtower had with the UN for 10 years…
Reply
Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:46 am
Thanks, and that’s a great angle to pursue.
Reply
RC says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:38 am
Hi Lloyd,
i got it from the picture of the link you posted. Sorry if my efforts at a joke fell flat. Anyway this is one of the few sites i visit to understand about JW. I am a Hindu from India and i did not hear about this cult till last year August when my cousin’s father asked me to help get his son back from this cult. My cousin had gone to US , got ensnared came back thoroughly indoctrinated and has been a source of great sorrow to his family. I started reading about this cult because i frankly dont know much about Christian beliefs, much less the JW beliefs. It is only after reading Raymond Franz books, Carl olof jonsonns , steven hassans and the Bible did i begin to get a sense of what is happening. Your site and Jwfacts have also been of immense help in countering my cousins claims. Dont know whether he will come out but we just are soldiering on. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Reply
Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:45 am
Thanks RC – sorry, I had no idea you were joking! I had a similar situation come up with the annual meeting leak when, only AFTER the veracity of the leak was confirmed, certain exJWs came out of the woodwork claiming they had the information first from their own ‘sources’. You unintentionally touched a sore spot, but I apologize for jumping on you like that, and I’m glad you have found this website and other resources helpful in educating yourself about the Witnesses.
Reply
RC says:
October 23, 2015 at 10:17 am
Hi Lloyd,
Thanks. Well rest assured on that count. I am no ex-JW. I am a great fan of what you do. Your rebuttals on youtube and your comments on “tight pants” Tony are informative and downright hilarious. Keep up the good work. It is helping us strip down my cousins delusions. Thank you,
RC
Reply
wifibandit says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:47 pm
They are targeting your country: https://youtu.be/a1iHxElQovc
Reply
dee says:
October 24, 2015 at 9:17 am
@RC
Another book that may help you with your cousin is CAPTIVES OF A CONCEPT, written by a former JW elder: http://www.captivesofaconcept.com
Reply
ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:44 am
At least the nine-inch spiked heels and riding crop are not banned outright. [loud cracking of crop against bare flesh]. (the heels, they ain’t for walking… by the way)
Reply
Veaney Arteaga says:
October 23, 2015 at 10:13 am
Wow ! Outstanding job. They must be shaking the kness
To bad hurricane Patricia is going to hit México this afternoon.
Should be in some exclusive part in NY; where’s that place called Warwick?
Thanks Cedars to you and the person inside the Watchtower.
I still can’t believe you have not requested all the lies of the Watchtower’s inside the JW 2015 Yearbook, this time dedicated to the DR ( Dominican Rep).
Here are some few examples:
-Page 89 (Spanish JW 2015 yearbook) Is that Brother Franz in the photo? Is it Ray? or His uncle?
-Page 93 Who is the speaker? Upper left photo
-Page 84 Last word is Marimbas; JW is telling to the world that marimba’s is embedded in our culture.
Completely wrong, bad research, extremely bad research they did.
And the list goes on and on
Reach me if you please at @veaney_arteaga, same in facebook
Reply
Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 10:29 am
Thank you for the compliments. I can understand why you would feel strongly about dubious material in the latest yearbook that happens to touch on your particular country, but hopefully you can appreciate that not everyone from other parts of the world will get quite as excited. And I would thank you not to foist this issue on others in the form of an off-topic addendum to your comment. If you feel so strongly about it, start your own blog.
Reply
wifibandit says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:52 pm
Can we discuss this on https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw ?
I did notice that they didn’t mention Ray Franz, and would like to hear your thoughts.
Reply
da' says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:20 am
“Highly secretive ” , If this wasn’t so sad (or funny) still cant decide which for myself. Here in the states we have
Judge Judy , afternoon TV show and her motto always is “when you tell the TRUTH (caps on purpose) you don’t need a good memory .” So…. why does the org need a long list of cookie cutter responses . It should always be TRUTH (not a contrived, well thought response) if you worship “the God of truth” !
Reply
da' says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:24 am
Cedars- what gives. this is the 2nd comment that requires moderation that I did not moderate at all. I don’t want to appear on this site as a commenter that needs moderating
Reply
Cedars says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:28 am
Nothing gives. Usually I have lots of other things to do other than comment moderation, but on this occasion I noticed your comment get trapped and approved it straight away. There is no malice, it’s just we need a spam filter to shield the website from a constant barrage of undesirable material, and sometimes good stuff gets flagged along with the bad. The alternative is to have a human sorting through each and every comment 24/7 as they come through. Do you know anyone?
Reply
JHK says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:25 am
True Christians are children of light. Who is the father of the dark?
Thanks, Cedars!
Reply
John Henry Kurtz says:
October 23, 2015 at 11:26 am
True Christians are children of light. Who is the father of the dark?
Reply
Actigall Ur says:
October 23, 2015 at 2:41 pm
I know of a sister in my former hall who was DF’d because she wrote the branch a letter questioning the reasoning and scriptural basis on blood transfusions when her husband needed to undergo surgery. I was not privy to the letter but she must have made a very strong argument because Bethel wrote to the elders FIRST telling them to make a shepherding call on her and find out if she “still believes the faithful and discreet slave are guided by Jehovah and if this is Jehovah’s ONLY earthly organization.” Only then would they respond to her…
I assume her answer was no because she was DF’d. HOWEVER and this is what really caused a lot of problems in my hall- another elderly sister who DID HAVE A BLOOD TRANSFUSION A FEW MONTHS LATER WAS NOT DF’D BECAUSE SHE WAS LEAVING HER WILL TO THE ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, certainly IF this was truly GOD’S organization, would they be more concerned with “obedience or sacrifice?” All the elders reading this should know the answer. This organization is a greedy money grabbing cult and it must be destroyed.
Of course, if you call up Bethel, they will say, “oh but these IMPERFECT MEN made the mistake, not JEHOVAH.”
That is always their excuse when the error falls on their favor. But when their lies are exposed in the media, then it is those “evil mentally ill apostates!”
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHAAAAA! It makes me so made. But KARMA paid them a visit.
Because of that incident, several ended up leaving either by writing letters or fading away and it left a sour taste behind but at that time, I was sad to see them go and looked at them as “spiritually weak” people… now I am so happy that they left and wish that MORE would have left and exposed those elders and this CULT!
BTW if that link should get shut down, there will be several mirror sites available and nothing this cult can do about it…
Reply
Tara says:
October 23, 2015 at 4:37 pm
For some reason – probably me being dumb; I can’t download it :(
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:20 pm
I love placing .pdf at the end of my searches.
Reply
Tara says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:48 pm
😉
Reply
wifibandit says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:55 pm
Rumor has it some unscrupulous individuals, with no respect for US Copyright law, are trading in such files here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3pweu5/cedars_article_on_latest_leak_highlysecretive/cwa1u8x
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:23 pm
I couldn’t either Tara and then when I saw how many pages, I didn’t want to anyway. I’ll just be content with reading the feedback about it. One thing for sure, whatever it contains, it’s certainly turning some heads.
Reply
DG says:
October 23, 2015 at 4:42 pm
It would be nice if you did not use “talmudic” as some sort of insult. The Talmud is a central book to Jews, and we have nothing to do with your religion’s problems or issues. In fact, the sort of suppression of dissent that you note is actually opposite to the talmudic process which rewards vigorous debate by all, not just a few elders.
Reply
Cedars says:
October 24, 2015 at 12:09 am
The Talmud, like it or not, is a long list of rules. “Talmudic” is an insult if applied to a document produced by a Christian organization, since Christians believe the Jewish law code was nailed to the stake/cross with Jesus. But if you are Jewish, and a believer that a divine authority has published an exhaustive list of rules for the benefit of mankind, there should be no reason for offense. If anything you should be offended at the organization that presumes to create their own version of the Talmud.
Reply
Catalina says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:20 pm
I feel disappointed and sad that in the guidelines document it reads a brother who uses sterilization for birth control isn’t allowed to be used for higher privileges in the congregation. My nephew-in-law didn’t know about this rule. The most he has done is pioneer. I feel bad for him. The guidelines document is enlightening. It’s amazing the things we learn on cedar’s website. What an eye opener.
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 12:02 am
Hi Catalina, I haven’t forgotten what you said previously and I will never forget it. Just curious to know, how long you have been out.
Reply
Catalina says:
October 24, 2015 at 3:11 am
Hi Meredith, I’ve been out for one year. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done.
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 2:36 pm
Good for you.
Reply
Donald duck says:
October 24, 2015 at 12:23 am
@catalina, I know for a fact two men, one a relative who had vasectomies. One served as an elder and one still is. I guess because it’s not “talked” or known about it’s okay… Once again, different set of rules…
Reply
Catalina says:
October 24, 2015 at 3:14 am
Oh wow, that’s interesting. I think some elders are probably stricter than other elders. Thank you
Reply
HomebytheSea says:
October 23, 2015 at 7:35 pm
I can’t believe that people are willing to share such personal information! It’s absolutely none of their concern if someone gets a vasectomy or tubal ligation! Are they going to feed all of the additional unplanned children when people are surviving on low wages as it is?
Reply
Catalina says:
October 23, 2015 at 8:42 pm
It also irritates me they don’t share their view about sterilization with the rank and file in the congregation. I didn’t know sterilization is supposed to be a sin. And they complain about Catholics.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:28 am
You ever wonder how Circuit Overseer couples and special pioneers don’t have any children? Hipocrites, who knows what kind of freaky they employ to avoid a pregnancy and they’ll be the very first to scream “off with their heads!” If any rank and file commit any of this.
Reply
Darlene Alexander says:
October 23, 2015 at 9:06 pm
Cedars, can you or someone get this document to the ARC asap? I think they, and even the UK Charity Commission, would be very interested in reading it.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:44 am
Darlene I would advice you to take the initiative and send an email and brief description to anyone on that commision. Lloyd can’t do it all. We all have to put in a bit of our time and actively participate in activism against this cult. If your like me stuck on the inside and unwilling to sacrifice all friends and family to try and prove a point to brainwashed ears, there are alternatives. Call the authorities whenever you see a cart put up and explain a bit of how this cult victimized you and others. Flood every witness you know with links to this and other pertinent JW truth websites on their Facebook, twitter, email. Write to people in your hall with a well articulated explanation of the ex-jw cause, they certainly will try to fill yours with theirs. I’m currently befriending many people in my neighborhood watch and hopefully will build up the courage to start a http://www.jwfacts.com and http://www.jwsurvey.com sticker campaign with signs people can place on their lawns the way politicians do.
I was thinking of a small sticker people can put on their fron door that states “This home is awake to Watchtower lies and rampant abuse of children. We do not accept your cult on our property, please leave or we will call the authorities. For more details visit http://www.jwfacts.com
http://www.jwsurvey.com
As they are handed out freely to the public a brief “this will keep those child abusers away” explanation can be given. People can visit the websites and curious witnesses that read the stickers will be more informed.
The ideal thing would be if this site or jwfacts offered them for a paypal donation that would help keep these sites running. Those of us able to purchase in bulk would happily do so.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:49 am
http://www.jwsurvey.org forgot the .org, facepalm.
Reply
Redgreenyellow says:
October 24, 2015 at 1:16 am
Thank you for this truthful info…I look forward to coming on your website because i find truth… when i was a Jw all i seen was lies They lie about lying when its obvious! Thats enough to get anyone sick..
Your doing a great job in helping those in jw darkness; thats now being exposed ..
Reply
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← The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out? →
Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
avatar
Posted on October 23, 2015
The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower's correspondence department
The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower’s correspondence department
The last few weeks will have been deeply frustrating for the Governing Body, as multiple leaks have exposed a growing resentment of their attitudes and policies among an increasing number of bethel workers.
And now a fresh leak from a Watchtower insider has blown the lid wide open on how the organization deals with issues affecting the rank and file.
“Correspondence Guidelines” is a 118-page document issued to key staff at bethels around the world, giving cookie-cutter responses to a long list of scenarios involving various doctrines.
Previously only available to a privileged few, a 2011 edition of the document is now freely available, effectively meaning that anyone who has the document knows how Watchtower will reply to almost any letter they write before they even put pen to paper.
For the avoidance of further entanglements with Watchtower’s legal department over its interpretation of copyright law, we at JWsurvey have decided not to distribute the Correspondence Guidelines on this website.
Whether you, the reader, choose to access the material from elsewhere on the internet is entirely your decision.
pictureThe Correspondence Guidelines were virtually unheard-of until mentioned by former Governing Body member Ray Franz in his follow-up to Crisis of Conscience – In Search of Christian Freedom – on page 242.
in-search1 The subject list continues over a further two pages before Franz summarizes on page 245…
in-search2After spending an hour or so last night perusing the pages of this fascinating document, I can fully concur with Franz’s characterization of it as “Talmudic.” A plethora of subject headings delve into areas as diverse as transvestism, refugees, animal blood, hermaphrodites, sterilization and “retarded persons” with giddying pedantry.
The writers of the document themselves seem to recognize how ridiculous it is by their attempts at defending it in their opening remarks…
Bear in mind that much of what is published on matters of conduct is to be viewed not as law but rather as mature Christian counsel. So it is not always necessary to think in terms of imposing sanctions if a person does not fully conform to the counsel given.
But this disclaimer is overtly contradicted on only the next page…
If the one inquiring reflects a challenging, disrespectful attitude, it may be advisable first to contact the elders to determine the person’s standing in the congregation and what assistance they have been able to render.
Therefore, anyone who writes to the organization with anything other than praise and flattery, or who gives the impression they know what they’re talking about, can expect their local elders to get a phonecall – an underhanded breach of confidence that surely represents a “sanction” in and of itself.
Further contradictions present themselves as the reader delves into the various subjects. For example, accepting a blood transfusion without regret, even if it proves to be life-saving, remains a disfellowshipping offense…
A baptized person who willfully and unrepentantly takes a blood transfusion thereby chooses to reject the Scriptural sanctity of blood and violates God’s law. Three elders (not a judicial committee) should meet with him. If a blood transfusion has been accepted without repentance, the congregation will consider that the person has disassociated himself. It would then be announced: “[Name of individual] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” The matter would be dealt with as in other cases of disassociation.—w86 10/15 31; w73 9/1 543-4.
But if you happen to be a JW nurse or doctor, and you are instructed to administer a blood transfusion to a non-JW patient, you can do so without fear of reprisals…
A Christian who is a nurse or a doctor respects the Scriptures and therefore would not recommend or order a blood transfusion for a patient. If he or she as an employee is not responsible for deciding the matter and is directed by a superior to administer a transfusion to a non-Witness, whether to obey is a matter for personal, conscientious decision.—w99 4/15 28-30; w75 4/1 215-16.
On the other hand, if you’re a farmer and allow a blood transfusion for one of your animals, expect a slapped wrist at the very least…
It is not proper for a Christian to administer a blood transfusion to an animal owned by him or to authorize another to do so.—w64 2/15 127-8.
Since this is a 2011 edition, we have no way of knowing whether the subject of child abuse has been addressed more comprehensively in more recent editions (which seems likely given all the media exposure on that subject since the Candace Conti victory in 2012).
Even so, given the fact that mishandling of child abuse among Jehovah’s Witnesses has been highlighted since at least 2002 (when BBC Panorama and Dateline documentaries first exposed the issue to a mass audience), you would expect the safeguarding of the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses from sexual predators to merit more column inches than, say, discussing the propriety of Tae Bo.
But child molestation gets only three passing mentions in this document. Pages 41 and 110 give far-from-unequivocal guarantees that molesting a child will prevent a Witness male from serving in a position of responsibility.
For example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.
Some who are guilty of child molestation, even if not disfellowshipped for such actions, might never qualify for special privileges in the congregation.
Then on page 53 the writers ponder the situation of a minor girl who is raped and falls pregnant. Rather than worrying about the girl’s well-being and the urgent need to pursue justice for her assailant, attention turns to the living arrangements of the resulting baby, and whether the abused child will have to marry her attacker or not.
Child that results either from fornication or from rape of a minor girl: The father of the single, minor girl (or the mother in a singleparent home where there is no father) bears the responsibility to decide whether the infant will be raised in the home or elsewhere. It shows consideration on his part to consider the minor’s valid wishes. He must also decide whether to permit the girl to marry the male who caused the pregnancy. Being pregnant does not require marriage to the father of the child simply to avoid illegitimacy. A hasty or improper marriage may only make a bad situation worse. Emotional support from individuals in the congregation is sometimes helpful.
The failure of the writers to adequately explore and address what we now know to be a rampant problem of child abuse in the organization, with 1,006 suspected pedophiles on the records of Watchtower in Australia alone, highlights either stunning naivety on the part of the Governing Body (who will have sanctioned this material), or deliberate negligence of their duty to protect children from a clear threat.
Ray Franz described the "Correspondence Guidelines" as "Talmudic"
Ray Franz described the Correspondence Guidelines as “Talmudic”
The proper handling of domestic violence, also a huge problem in the organization, is similarly given short shrift. Page 51 briefly mentions court action as being favorable in the case of a violently abusive husband for the protection of his victim, but nowhere does it suggest that a believing woman who finds herself in such a situation would be allowed to find happiness with a new husband.
In contrast to the terse treatment of such a pressing issue that affects battered spouses in countless marriages, nine pages are devoted to the various nuances of divorce, adultery and remarriage. Every conceivable permutation of marital infidelity is explored in fanatical detail.
Again, “Talmudic” is the only word that can do justice to Watchtower’s obsession with sex and morals. And only the word “pharasaical” can describe their corresponding indifference to the countless victims, past, present and future, of physical abuse in its various forms.
Finally, I was struck by the section on “bloodguilt,” which had the following to say…
The Bible condemns murder, a sin for which a person may be disfellowshipped.—Rev. 21:8.
Bloodguilt may also be incurred if a person causes loss of life through carelessness or because of violating a traffic law or other safety law of Caesar. If a Witness is liable for someone’s death in an accident, the elders should investigate and if warranted appoint a judicial committee to hear the matter, for the congregation wants to avoid community responsibility for bloodguilt.
One can’t help but wonder just how much blood is on the hands of Watchtower leaders past and present, from Knorr to the likes of Morris, Splane and Lett, for the countless lives that have been lost due to the ridiculous prohibitions on blood.
How many lives have been brutally cut short as a result of indoctrinated cult victims declining medical treatment with blood, a practice on which the scriptures are silent? We may never know. And that is to say nothing of the unknown number who have ended their lives as a result of Watchtower’s ruthless shunning practices.
One thing is certain, namely that the Governing Body won’t be making changes to save lives or protect the vulnerable any time soon. But at least there is some comfort in knowing that a growing number within bethel corridors are awakening to the full reality of a shared struggle, and working with myself and others to give thorough exposure to this devastating cult.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾PDF download of Crisis of Conscience, by Ray Franz
◾PDF download of In Search of Christian Freedom, by Ray Franz
◾Recent articles on leaks related to downsizing
Related video…
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343 Responses to Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 24, 2015 at 4:33 am
For those of us who have been associated for a lot of years, we would have known about how we can’t get sterilized unless if a woman gets pregnant, she will die but most new people wouldn’t know that unless they start talking about doing it and then they would get counseled.
Can you imagine getting a new Bible Study and start telling them all about the more than one thousand rules that Jehovah’s Witnesses have to follow right at the start of the study? How many of those people would continue to study?
They wouldn’t continue the study and so the person is first convinced that the Bible is from God and then they are convinced that the Watchtower has a personal one on one relationship with God and that they are the only ones who can interpret the Bible and then they convince us that Armageddon is going to wipe out every single man, woman and child at any moment, who doesn’t convert to Jehovah’s Witnesses because only Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only one using “His” name and preaching it. That is their modus operandi.
The Watchtower doesn’t hold anybody responsible if they had done those things before being converted, so if a man or woman got sterilized before becoming a Witness, they could still have all the privileges that anybody else could have but if you are a new Witness and go ahead and commit one of those offenses, they would remove them from any privileges.
I know of a couple who the husband is the father of the girl’s first husband. He broke up his son’s marriage and married his own daughter-in-law and that man and wife are in the same congregation as her ex-husband but because this all happened before becoming Witnesses, everybody is supposed to accept that marriage with open arms and they do. It’s crazy to me.
The Watchtower expects that once a person gets baptized, they should know all the rules going back one hundred years. Who could keep up? The Watchtower has though. They must have a list of all the offenses.
As long as Witnesses break these rules in private, nobody would know but it’s the telling of others (by mistake because of not being informed of all of them) that gets them into trouble.
Being a Witness, means that if you do know all the “rules” then you can’t talk about what you do in your private life if you are breaking one of those rules, or if you don’t know all the rules, you are bound to break a rule and get into trouble if you talk about what you do in your private life because you are bound to break them, since you don’t know what they all are.
You can’t have any close friends either who will blab to the elders about something you have done which means, to be a Witness, it is almost impossible to have a real friend in the “truth”.
All those rules are passed on from generation to generation and Bible Study to Bible study and it’s gradual. If it happened all at once, people would be so turned off but first it starts with real little things, like you can’t say gosh or golly as it’s short for God.
After they have been Witness for years and years and learn all the rules, they think it’s perfectly normal and anybody who breaks these rules are bad.
It is all very sinister in how the Society tricks people into it.
Can you imagine telling a regular person in service, that we can’t play chess because it’s too “violent”? They would run the other way so fast and realize that that religion is stupid. Witness are expected to know every silly rule going back one hundred years and how they have also changed and how the light got “brighter” too.
What ten year old child is going to know all that when they get baptized? But once that kid get baptized and breaks one of those rules that they were never told about before getting baptized, they face getting disfellowshipped.
One of the most important rules is that if you find out that the Society is telling lies, you will be forbidden to tell anybody about it or you will be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
Why don’t they tell anybody about those rules when they first start studying with them????
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dee says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:34 am
@Caroline:
“Why don’t they tell anybody about those rules when they first start studying with them????”
I’ve often wondered the same thing. The JWs entice you into their religion with lots of love bombing and makes it sound so nice, they magnify the problems in the world, Armageddon is always imminent – this is how they trick you into joining the religion. A lot of people fall for it because of the lure of a Paradise earth but they aren’t told up front of the consequences they will face should they decide to exercise their right to freedom of religion and cconscience and decide that they no longer wish to be a JW.
They aren’t told up front that if they disassociate themselves from the religion they will be shunned and cut-off from family and friends because the rules of the religion are designed to ensure that persons will regret their decision to leave. CULT!!!!
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dee says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:57 am
They trick people into joining the religion by creating a ‘specialness’ about the group:
1. Only JWs use God’s name.
2. JWs will be persecuted for their faith; Satan will cause relatives and friends to say bad things about the group. JWs see persecution as a sign that they are doing it right – after all, Jesus did tell them to expect persecution.
But people aren’t told up front what exactly they are getting themselves into regarding the rules of the religion.
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SR says:
October 24, 2015 at 3:59 pm
I swear “Jehovah” is a trigger word for the indoctrination. Watching them say it gives me the creeps.
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Sardec says:
October 25, 2015 at 8:35 am
I know from personal experience that when I even say that name in my head it feels like there’s a surge of dopamine released…I don’t know how they do it, but that’s what happens.
dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 8:54 pm
Cults are well known to hide many of their more controversial practices from newcomers and prospective members. The smiling Witnesses who knock on your door do not talk about shunning, no birthdays, blood transfusions or suppression of enquiry etc.
When JWs go door-to-door they do not let potential converts know that, after they get baptized in the JW religion, they cannot change their minds and return to their former religion without being punished. Potential converts are not informed up front that if they change their minds and resign from the JWs after getting baptized, they will be considered mentally diseased apostates and will be shunned for the rest of their lives by their family and friends who remain in the JW religion.
JWs go into people’s homes who are at times already committed to God in some way and take them from their churches not telling them up front that they risk breaking up their home and relationships.
JWs go door-to-door telling people they should leave their religion and become a JW. These prospective converts are not told upfront that if someone does the reverse and leaves the JWs they are shunned and lose their family and friends who remain in the religion.
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dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 5:57 am
Prospective converts are not told upfront of the isolation and alienation that they will experience as once they get baptized they will be expected to cut-off associating with non-witness friends since such persons are worldly and bad associations yet if you are in need it may very well be these friends whom you turned your back on who would be the most likely to come to your aid.
Prospective converts are not told upfront about the isolation and alienation they will experience since JWs can’t play a competitive sport. You are expected to give up all these things and instead spend more time preaching and selling magazines and will be told that the walking up and down that you do while preaching is such good exercise that you won’t miss the exercise you get from playing a competitive sport.
Prospective converts are not told upfront of how alienated they will become from their natural family who genuinely mean them well and are the ones who genuinely care about them and love them as they will be indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe that they are their enemies should they oppose their becoming a JW because after all Jesus did say: “For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law – a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household” (Matthew 10:35, 36). You thereby inadvertently end up casting your natural family aside and substituting members of the JW religion for your natural family.
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dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 6:43 am
The smiling JWs who come to your door paint such a ‘hunky dory’ picture of the religion that JWs are so different from the world that you will begin to believe that if you should become a JW you just won’t experience any hostilities while in the religion. But surprise, surprise, little did you know that once you become a JW and the members of the religion begin to show their true colours then you will realize that everything is not so ‘hunky dory’ after all.
dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 7:24 am
You are not told up front that should you change your mind after getting baptized and decide that you no longer wish to be a JW then you risk ending up in a social vacuum since you will have no one when you decide to leave – when you became a JW you cut-off your association with your friends as you were discouraged from having non-witness friends as they are worldly and bad association; you limited your dealings with persons outside of work and school because worldly people are bad association; your JW family and friends who remain in the religion will cut you off and shun you because this is what the religion tells them to do to persons who leave the religion and also because associating with you puts them in jeopardy of being disfellowshipped (as happened to Ray Franz).
dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 10:28 am
Prospective converts are not told upfront that they will be taught that those of the world are evil, and even though worldly people may appear to be kind, this is one of Satan’s tactics to lure people out of God’s organisation.
Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 2:31 pm
Good Day Caroline. Or should I say G’day Caroline. When I was studying, I could not get over how many rules and regulations there were. Yet, there were more and more and more and more. I should have followed my instincts and ran for my life.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 25, 2015 at 3:17 am
I love this Caroline!….. they go on and on about the fact Jesus only gave 2 principles to base our life on and then go and conjure up a million rules!
I remember being very cynical about people leading ‘double lives’….. now I am the Queen of double life!… because if you have a brain in your head and have to stay shackled to this cult its the only way to survive.
What you said about friends is so true as well…I have dear friends but if I gave them an inkling of what I was really thinking they are so indoctrinated they would shop me so fast….I know Iv done it myself many many years ago…it was the precurser to my first real doubt that this was The Truth…because I felt like such a sorry human being afterwards….well done Caroline you have described the idiocy of this organisation in a few well chosen words.
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Lisa says:
October 25, 2015 at 11:20 am
I too at one time felt that way “Idontknowhattodo” It wasnt till I finally took a stand for myself and children. I sat my parents down and told them I could no longer be a JW. My mother stood up and walked out of my home. Didn’t speak to me for 10 years! But what freedom my family finally received. Born Free!!!!
It takes amazing courage and strength.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 26, 2015 at 1:27 am
I would think it would take amazing courage and strenth Lisa and maybe I am a coward but I couldnt face my grown children shunning me…they are all away from home now but devoted to this organisation all the same… I am trying to build a life outside but that is hard…Im no Spring Chicken and have been in this cult my entire life…so for myself I would find that too much to do…I would be alone…I feel cowardly many times in the day and have found friends on this site…I admire you I really do…you saved your family.
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JBob says:
October 25, 2015 at 6:53 pm
I’m going to counter you on that @Caroline because if you read a little further in the Correspondence Guidelines, you’ll notice that the Watchtower does expect SOME “sins” to be reversed. Like if you had your baby-maker removed because mentally you felt like a woman, and not a Shania Twain thing but a Caitlin thing, so now you got to stop the hormones and dress like a man. Granted a man with breasts and big lips and hips, but dress like a man. And, if you got married to a man, you would have to get divorced–unhitched.
So, you see the Holy Spirit (God’s divine tool) sometimes gets a little confused and has a 180-degree change regarding handling matters.
On the other hand, if you wanted to have a franchise that handles matters consistently across the board, with the same looking McKingdom Hall in every city, the same uniformed McElders, the same McMeetings, and the same McGuidance, yeah, you need a branding manual with policies and guidelines.
Religion. Business. Enterprise. Religion. Business. Enterprise. Puppy. Tail. Religion. Business. Enterprise. Puppy. Tail….
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:18 am
Jbob,
That’s hilariously accurate, so when we start the Christian life and ministry meetings,
( the dumbed down version ).
I got one question …can I super-size that for you, and do you want fries?
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Sy says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:18 am
I’m disassociated for 20 years now – I got kicked out by my JW mother because I started to question things more openly at age 17. My JW father beat me regularly from the age of 2 until I ‘left’ home as well as having seven shades of shite kicked out at mr throughout every year of school for being a JW child. My dad would even give me beatings in the KH toilets and dig his nails so deep into my hands and arms I’d bleed so when I’d sfinally stopped crying I’d have to go back into the hall and sit on my hands so nobody could see the bleeding. The elders knew what was going on. The whole congregation knew what was going on, yet nothing was done. My abuse was only physical (and mental) so in a way a blessing (of sorts) compared to some unfortunate children. To allow this to happen to a child you must have to be utterly brainwashed.
And that is how this cult operates. Reels you in with false/non-scriptual promises after feeding on peoples fears/fragile emotional states, and just bombards you day after day after effing day. No respite. No days off for good behaviour. 3 meetings a week. It doesn’t matter how far you are from a KH – BE THERE. Squillions of magazines, books and pamphlets repeating themselves over and over. Here’s more new shit. Here’s some more new shit. Hey, I know it’s only been a week but here’s some more new shit. Apparently there’s some more new shit coming out next week. The week after, 3 lots of new shit will be held aloft by the speaker during a special announcement WHICH YOU WILL BE AT. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM – DON’T EFFING QUESTION US – BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM aaaaaaannnnnd… BOOM there’s some more new shit landed in your lap to read/adhere to/not question. Contribute financially if you can, or with your ‘time’ if you like.
My mother is still in the clutches of this horrid cult who are, ultimately, responsible for death of thousands due to there blood policy and shunning policy. They cannot claim manslaughter. They are God’s chosen spokespeople, apparently. God wants this. His Holy Spirit says so. About as believable as Joseph Smiths’ sear stone in a smelly old tophat. No. This is murder. No spirit visits these men. No moans or clanking chains. No whispers in the ear or ‘visions’ or any of that BS. They are fully aware of their actions. God did not send Casper the Friendly Ghost along to the GB to help draw out a paedophilia policy so utterly disgusting that – even trying to stretch our own compunction of how life, space and time works – makes you wonder if the GB are stuck in a perpetual loop of April 1st days.
My mother has been in for 40 years now. My Dad has always been half-in, half-out. My 3 brothers have faded but my sister is still in. I think. None of them are talking to me, because various men make themselves a foot-and-a-half taller by standing on a platform with nice angled lighting and tell them not to talk to me. Oh, and while I’m on the platform Brothers and Sisters… BOOM here’s a new book called ‘The A-Z of Shunning’ please obey it.
Back to Mum. I wish she’d just take a break. I miss speaking with her. She’s so lovely but utterly indoctrinated. Brainwashing doesn’t do holidays though. Wouldn’t that be nice for those ‘still in’? Just take a month off. Treat yourselves. Come ooooon – you’ve been in for 4 decades. Take the weight offa yo feetsies. I assure you ‘God’ won’t judge you for it. You’ve put a lot of time and effort in. Just a month. No literature. No meetings. No JW.org on your tablet and any of the new songs that make me wanna eat my own fricking feet with embarrassment. The New System should’ve arrived long before now. I can guarantee you it ain’t gonna arrive within the next month. Sit back. Relax. Reflect. Question. Reason. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! SAY THE GB – BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM AND ANOTHER BOOK IN YOUR LAP OR AVAILABLE TO DOWNLOAD THROUGH APPLES’ APPSTORE SOON BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM.
I’ve come to the conclusion that those that are still in – and who must be aware of all the radical changes at the top followed by the trickledown to all the filth that’s happening at the KH end – are terminally deluded. From a Humanistic standpoint, these people need urgent mental help.
Jehovah’s Witnesses. Please. Treat yourself to a month off.
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Sy says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:29 am
Oh, and as a by-the-way being as my post wasn’t really on-topic, I’ve flicked through this latest document. If I’m honest, it’s no best-seller. Actually, it’s quite shit as fictional works go.
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David Adam says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:34 am
Can I get the whole letter?
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wifibandit says:
October 24, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Rumor has it that some are trading it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3q0azf/pdf_link_to_leaked_correspondence_guidelines/
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Anna Adam says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:38 am
Thanks John
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RK says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:50 am
I’m curious how the watchtower keeps from lawsuits by threatening disassociation if one accepts blood to save their own life. If someone in your car does not have a seatbelt on, and you say stayed up all night. Then drove while exhausted and hit a tree killing the passenger. You would go to jail.
There has to be some form of negligence (legal that is) on the part of watchtower for indoctrinating people to not except the blood transfusion by forcing them with disassociation. I always thought they couldn’t disfellowshipped someone or basically disassociate them if they willingly accept a blood transfusion, because it would cause legal issues. But now after reading this information it appears that if you willingly except a blood transfusion and you are to be disassociated. So really one is actually forced by the fear of separation from family. But somehow they make it the person’s own choice by them signing the DPA.
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JBob says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:23 pm
@RK – keep in mind the Watchtower lobby and then the naive general public has the attitude that individuals are free to choose to abide by or toss aside any community or club guidelines (not standards or laws, or rules). Viewing JW.org as a club means that individuals choosing to not take blood were aware of the risk (dying) and assumed it. This legal dog and pony show has been shown often, and Watchtower, Inc always comes out smelling like Febreezed horse manure.
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Ozzy Steve says:
October 24, 2015 at 5:51 am
Such understanding treatment of Transgender persons requesting baptism! Was this written in the 50’s? Truly appalling, although what would you expect:(
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Ted says:
October 24, 2015 at 7:06 am
Covertfade.
Your comment on membership of organisations, listed in the
secret document, and linking it to the org, joining the UN as a
NGO, was excellent, and very coincidental for me.
Just 3 days previously, my brother in law elder asked to see me
for a discussion on questions I had previously raised about the org.
I prepared for his visit by printing out “The Guardian” article on the
orgs, hypocrisy and also the UNs letter showing that NGOs had to
agree with its charter, I pointed out to him page 112 in the Flock
Book, that shows that he would not only lose his eldership, but
would be D,A-d, for membership of a political org. The extra info
from the secret file would have been most useful.
Brother in law made the feeble response, “That we all sign things
without reading the small print. ( We all know the org,lawyers check
every full stop and comma,)
We also discussed Shunning. I had printed. an article from the
January 8 1947 Awake, “Are you Excommunicated”. The last
paragraph describes excommunication as “A Weapon of Tyranny
used by the clergy, that finds no parallel in history. I asked, why
is a weapon of tyranny being used against gods flock today?
He left, rather subdued and took the printed material with him.
I didn’t get any Joy from this, he’s been a JW 57 years and is
getting on in years himself. But it was he who requested the
discussion, and I had no intention of listening to WT propaganda.
I’ve had my fill of that.
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Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 2:34 pm
What a victory. Maybe he will have a crisis of conscience too.
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Mark-O says:
October 26, 2015 at 12:10 pm
The UN NGO is now a bit of a distraction. What WTBTS did was join the UN Secretariat “Deartments and Offices” as an annex of the UN DPI, by way of the “grassroots” tier of the Outreach Division of the DPI.
So the UN NGO is a low level “affiliate” “partnered” membership, that now dovetails out to many UN “Intergovernmental Organizations” that the WTBTS is now involved with, out of the UN NGO shell, but still performing UN lobbying in organizations intended to influence national legislation.
The OSCE activity, a UN IGO, is not the only place the WTBTS still lobbies for the various layers of the UN international agenda, which penetrates all nations by various routes like “religious freedom” and “human rights” and “sustainable development”.
For example then OSCE is at the core an “arms control” focused organ, so what is the WTBTS having to do with “arms control”? So it was just an in to allow the WTBTS to continue to “ride the wildbeast” under various “good intention” cloaks.
But in the end, the WTBTS is used to influence national directions for the UN agenda into national politics.
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Freedomancy|Void ab Initio says:
October 24, 2015 at 10:22 am
“…for the congregation wants to avoid community responsibility for bloodguilt.”
There it is: the reason the WatOrg will never fully allow blood transfusions. Instead, they’ll slowly decrease restrictions so that, when they’re done, accepting blood becomes a matter of conscience. No announcement is made, no new light blooms. Witnesses will be able to take blood in everything but name. They nearly can already.
It’s all about the liability, guys.
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Pow says:
October 24, 2015 at 12:46 pm
Excally. !!!
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Ted says:
October 24, 2015 at 10:56 am
The genuine person who disclosed this nauseating
document is obviously someone who is disillusioned
and unhappy with the wt,orgs, principles and conduct.
Furthermore they see Lloyds site as a major influence
in combatting the cult control that many are trapped in.
it’s a privilege to have a little part in it.
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Pow says:
October 24, 2015 at 3:44 pm
With this kind of “inside and insightful ” information, for once the light is really getting brighter.
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Tara says:
October 25, 2015 at 8:22 am
It def. makes reading the scriptures different.
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WikiFade says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:28 pm
@Ted – really this is old news. As Lloyd outlines, RFranz served up this in his 1st book, CoC. No lawsuits in that case. The material has surfaced once and again, over the decades intervening, but now that we have wikileaks… and activist hackers..
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RC says:
October 24, 2015 at 11:16 am
Hi dee,
Have read that book by Don Cameron as well. Also reasoning the scriptures with jehovah witnesses by Ron Rhodes. If there are any other books please let me know.
@wifibandit
Thanks for the link.they can target my countrymen as much as they can but so far their efforts have not yielded much success. People here are a little bit ambivalent when it comes to religion. Being majority hindus they generally dont listen to JWs . The government has not granted permission for the JW to receive foreign donations. They appealed in court but seems like the case is going on for at least a decade with no end in sight.
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dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 6:49 pm
@RC
Just wondering, has your cousin expressed the reason(s) why he has decided to become a JW? Why does he believe that this is the true religion?
I recall that when I used to be a JW, I was told that the best way to preach to Hindus (I assume your cousin was formerly a Hindu?) was not to discuss their religious beliefs but just show them the pictures of the coming paradise in the JW publications and ask them:
If they could be in Paradise without having to go through several cycles of death and rebirth, would they prefer that?
What if the Paradise could be on earth instead of in heaven? Would they prefer that?
Based on their answers they were then told that the Bible teaches that there is a coming paradise on earth without the need to go through several cycles of death and rebirth before getting to that Paradise.
At the time I was living in a country with a very significant Hindu population and some of the Hindus did fall for this apparent express route to Paradise and became JWs. Perhaps your cousin has fallen for these arguments as well?
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RC says:
October 29, 2015 at 3:43 am
Hi Dee,
Sorry missed your reply did not visit the site for a couple of days. Yes my cousin seems to have unnatural fear of death which these guys exacerbated. Yes it was the hook they used to get him in. He asked me the same question and i asked him where in the bible is the earthly paradise mentioned. Our arguments are going on on that front.
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ScotWm says:
October 24, 2015 at 11:56 am
What to do when you are of advanced age — with health problems — and the faithful slave no longer wants to support your missionary work, traveling work or district work? Being demoted to the Special Pioneer work does provide a meager income, but all other provisions are gone. Surely the answer lies in the “Correspondence Guidelines” document. Well, maybe not.
However, there’s no need to become discouraged because the Governing Body has lovingly provided “Iron Sharpens Iron”, a video which shows how to “throw your burden on Jehovah” when God’s visible Earthly organization throws you out on the street. First, you must focus on the privilege and joy of serving the Watchtower organization and pleasing the Governing Body members who have a great abundance of love for you.
Next, you must actually throw your burden on the local congregations to which you are now assigned. Therefore, you should try to relocate in areas where you are already known for your faithful Watchtower service. Then, think about why the Governing Body has made these “adjustments” and the benefits that are going to come to the congregations.
Always think about the good times you had when you were young and serving the faithful slave, not about the stark reality that you are all used up and being discarded because the Watchtower has no further use for you.
As a loving provision, the Governing Body has compiled all of these helpful survival tips and many more into one simplified video:
http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODIntExp/pub-irn_x_VIDEO
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:24 am
Basically let me sum that video with a more accurate title. ” go and be warm and well fed”, now go on and get the hell outta here
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ScotWm says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:38 pm
The Watchtower recently made the statement, “Older Christians can reflect Christlike humility by supporting younger ones now taking the lead.”
In response to this, a commentator made this observation, and several others:
“Policy changes in the organization are resulting in older men being marginalized solely on the basis of age. Men with 60, 70, even 80 years of experience are being sent out to pasture, while the ranks of travelling overseers are being filled with men in the prime of youth. Concurrent with this Watchtower’s study is the release of a video on tv.jw.org called “Iron Sharpens Iron” in which three forcibly retired district overseers are interviewed to put a positive spin on the new arrangement.”
http://meletivivlon.com/2015/10/26/wt-study-are-you-reaching-the-stature-that-belongs-to-christ/
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M. says:
October 24, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Guidelines for Traveling Overseers
available in Spanish : https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/230501492?access_key=key-wuyQetUvsQ8V4D8G4y55&allow_share=true&escape=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=scroll
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Debbie smith says:
October 24, 2015 at 3:21 pm
Thank you for the work that you do. I have been cut off from my entire immediate family and suffered years of depression due to being a witness. I applaud you.
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Catalina says:
October 24, 2015 at 7:12 pm
I just looked under the section about sexual conduct. Do you remember the dentist here in the U.S. who raped women patients while they were unconscience in his dental chair? It took several years before he got caught. According to my sister a regular pioneer got pregnant by that dentist and was disfellowshipped because she kept telling the elders she didn’t know when it happened or who the father was. The elders didn’t believe her until DNA proved the rapist was the father. It took years before she was reinstated because the elders thought she was unrepentant. It took DNA to help her. It turned out she was telling the elders the truth the whole time. Things like this proves these are man made laws and not from Jehovah or Jesus. She kept going to meetings until she got reinstated. Now she is inactive. Disfellowshiping and shunning scars people for life.
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dee says:
October 24, 2015 at 7:30 pm
@Catalina:
If this is really God’s spirit-led organization, why didn’t God’s Holy Spirit tell the elders that the raped sister was telling the truth?
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Catalina says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Oh Yes, that is such a great point. I get what you mean. When an elder is chosen it’s supposed to be by holy spirit. According to my sister the elders felt the pioneer sister was hiding something and wasn’t being forthcoming. If holy spirit was really there they would have trusted her. I never thought of that.
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Meredith J says:
October 24, 2015 at 10:51 pm
She must have felt like “Why would I bother?” Sounds like she didn’t when they never believed her. Classic story. The Holy Spirit was never there.
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 25, 2015 at 4:02 am
Catalina, in my circuit there was a regular pioneer sister who left her husband and married another Witness man and she wasn’t even publicly reproved. That was in 1974 and because she didn’t even get a slap on the wrist, there was a rash of divorces (probably because that sister didn’t even get publicly reproved and so they thought they could do the same thing).
It all depends on if they say “sorry” good enough and if they are innocent, that person would still have to say “sorry” to satisfy the requirements not to get disfellowshipped. It is much like in the U.S. if a person is convicted of a crime that they did not commit, if they want to get out of jail in a matter of years later, they have to say they were sorry for the crime they did not commit and if they refuse, the criminal system will keep that person in prison, that is unless they are released because of finding DNA evidence to exonerate them.
Holy Spirit has nothing to do with their decisions. The elders’ first order of importance is that they have to make people on the “outside” believe that the Watchtower Organization is the cleanest religion in the world because after all, it is God’s “only” organization that He is communicating with today.
When the elders play favorites and don’t disfellowship somebody and not the next person for the same “sin”, nobody in the congregation is privy to what went on behind the closed doors of the committee hearing and are forbidden to even ask questions.
Those elders should not be put in that position. If a sister shows up pregnant and is not married and she says she can’t remember how it happened, the elders have no other choice but to disfellowship her.
I am sure that after she was exonerated, they felt bad for their decision to disfellowship her but their conscience was clear because they were following the Governing Body’s orders.
They should feel very ashamed and brokenhearted though because of all the pain that that Sister went through all those years and those elders can’t take that back from her and in any other organization, she could sue the pants off those men for what they put her through.
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Catalina says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:57 am
Caroline and Meredith, that’s probably it, she wouldn’t say sorry and the elders cared to much how things looked because she was pregnant.
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ThePenthouseExperience says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:45 pm
@Catalina – This may be off-topic, but since it is Halloween.. JW’s are noted for NOT observing any holidays, and especially, the Halloween festivities as being “Satan’s Day/Night,” so no telling of ghost stories, etc. But, JW’s do have their own style of Halloween ghost stories–demon stories.
The famous ones are related about some poor pioneer sister who frequented flea markets and garage sales to recycle and salvage items to furnish her rental. As it goes, she finds an innocuous little curio item and places it inside the home. Nothing major happens, but she begins to notice little strange things–items seem to be out of place, doors open that she thought she closed. Then, as the elder or MS, continues the story, one night, or morning, an Incubus calls and without a graphic telling molests (rapes) the sister.
Now, stories of this origin are steeped in superstition but the reasons for these tales derive from uncles and household males attempting to avoid suspicion of incest. A woman’s story of rape–perhaps being drugged–would be interrupted by the predatory interjecting the Incubus as culprit to throw suspicions off of himself.
In light of the rise of molestation cases and what we know of predators using drugs to subdue females for rape, I wonder if these stories were brought up by these JW men to cover their own outrageous actions–throwing confusion into the heads of the woman that had been, or would be, a target of their rape?
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elderfaded says:
October 26, 2015 at 6:55 am
Catalina … If I may ask … the incident of the Dentist you mentioned … in what State did that happen ?
I ask because I also know of a similar case that happened where I lived . I know of one Sister who worked for this Dentist ! If its the same case … I have inside information for you .
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elderfaded says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:04 am
Catalina … If I may ask … the incident of the Dentist you mentioned … in what State did that happen ?
I ask because I also know of a similar case that happened where I lived . I know of one Sister who worked for this Dentist ! If its the same case … I have inside information for you .
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Holy Connoli says:
October 27, 2015 at 3:14 am
@ Catalina. I remember reading about that Dentist. Is that a verifiable story you heard about the sister getting pregnant from the Dentist and her eventual Disfellowshipping? I am sure there is a newspaper article somewhere about it. Do you have access to it or more info on it?
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1914 ha ha ha says:
October 24, 2015 at 7:50 pm
How many jws does it take to change a lightbulb? It doesnt fµ¶€½%# matter, youre getting new light next week. Just remember,todays new light is tomorrows darkness!!!
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Catalina says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:59 am
1914 ha ha ha, that joke made me laugh and laugh and laugh out loud.
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1914 ha ha ha says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:01 pm
How many jws does it take to change a lightbulb? It doesnt fµ¶€½%# matter, youre getting new light next week. Just remember,todays new light is tomorrows darkness.
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shannon says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:44 am
I would buy that T-shirt !
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1914 ha ha ha says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:11 pm
sorry about the repost, i just cant get my head around the mindset of (my mum & dad) jws. Are they really that gullable?
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Jake says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:14 pm
If a person is to be judged on their love of what is truthful how is the Watchtower getting along?
Uzziah burnt incense in the temple and was struck with leprosy for doing so, how different is it to proclaim you have been appointed to a position ‘over all’ when you have not and have disfellowedshipped those who have disagreed with you?
It is not apostasy to disagree with those who promote false teachings.
If we are to ‘test the inspired sayings’ then questioning the Watchtower Society is the right and proper thing to do, especially in view of its horrendous past record of false teachings and bully boy tactics.
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Jake says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:35 pm
The Watchtower loves it when people rant against them, it’s how they made their money, they laugh at people like us, in fact they love people like us (it’s a rather scornful arrogant organisation).
But if you present a sound and scriptural argument against them, regardless of what they say, they are the ones they fear.
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Robert67 says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:45 pm
Spot on Jake
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Tara says:
October 25, 2015 at 8:27 am
They believe we are helping them fulfill scripture but as POW mentioned earlier the light is getting brighter but for a totally different reason than they – WT think.
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Jake says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:44 pm
Beware it’s ‘unity at all costs’.
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Jake says:
October 24, 2015 at 8:59 pm
The Watchtower lauds Christ, and yes I might die, but he did not bow to religious oppression.
So on your bike with one shoe that fits all.
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konceptual99 says:
October 24, 2015 at 9:43 pm
Amazing leak.
In some ways it’s not the content that should raise much in the way of eyebrows. With some notable exceptions, much of what is in there can be established from published WT articles. You could even argue that this is simply an internal document for use by Bethel staff and not especially “secret”.
It’s also something so that whatever minion gets to write letters back can have some point of reference without having to trawl through years of flip flops, changed light and confusing doctrine.
I think what is far more interesting is the mere fact it has been leaked. This is the latest in a bunch of documentation that has had relatively restricted distribution, only to those in trusted, senior roles, yet here it is being shared openly.
The contradictory nature of the WTS claiming to be led by principles and basic Christian values whilst producing lengthy document after document after document about process is being exposed time after time after time.
Great work!
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Jake says:
October 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
What is it about Northenden and the 1920’s?
1990 and if I could of said I would. Did like the dinner tickets and the 1st floor though :-)
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Cassandra says:
October 25, 2015 at 1:07 am
So upset that I can’t get a copy!
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Richard says:
October 25, 2015 at 4:35 am
Amazing that even in the case of murder, it doesn’t say squat about reporting it to the authorities… and for manslaughter, it seems to imply that it should stay in-house. WTF?!?!
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JBob says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:51 pm
I think I posted a few years back here, you could get away with murder as a JW?
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Kat says:
October 25, 2015 at 5:31 am
Cassandra try this.
http://www.metafilter.com/154120/Secretive-Correspondence-Guidelines-used-by-Jehovahs-Witnesses-leaked
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 25, 2015 at 8:23 am
On page 63, under Holidays and Anniversaries, it lists Hanukkah and refers to the Awake 1990 Dec. 8, pages 11-13 where that article actually admits that from the scripture at John 10:22,23 that Jesus celebrated Hanukkah in the wintertime.
The article went on to explain what Hanukkah was and how they had decorations with lights etc. but really no explanation why Christians would not celebrate it except that the Law Covenant came to an end but on page 12 of that article it says:
“Even though this festival was not a part of the original covenant God made with Israel, Hanukkah became an accepted part of the Jews’ worship, much as the Festival of Purim had become in previous years. (Esther 9:26,27) Like Purim, Hanukkah was celebrated with songs and prayers in the synagogues, unlike the three major festivals mandated by he covenant (Passover; Festival of Weeks, or Pentecost; and Festival of Booths) that required trips to the temple in Jerusalem. – Deut. 16:16.”
This is how that article concludes:
“So even though the rededication of the temple was an important event in the history of God’s ancient people, there is no reason for Christians to commemorate Hanukkah.”
What is interesting about this is that if you say to Witnesses that Jesus celebrated Hanukkah which is a winter holiday right around Christmas and it has nothing to do with the festivals that were in the Law Covenant, most Witnesses would be surprised by that fact. That little sentence and that scripture in that article went right past me, and I bet almost every Witness.
That article doesn’t answer the question about whether or not a Christian could celebrate Hanukkah because it refers to the Law Covenant being done away with. It doesn’t answer the question because it had nothing to do with the Law Covenant in the first place.
If brother who is answering correspondence, is being asked that question, all they would tell the writer to do, is to look at that Awake article for their answers and the article doesn’t answer the question at all but just gives the runaround.
If it had been me who had written to the Society for an answer to that question, the answer would not have satisfied me and that is because the Watchtower can’t answer it satisfactorily because Jesus celebrated Hanukkah and it had nothing to do with the Law covenant.
The Watchtower has to give the runaround when it comes to Jesus celebrating Hanukkah because that is one scripture that they could not leave out of the New World Translation but if they could leave it out, they would have so they slide right over it with a slippery answer, hoping that nobody will notice.
Slippery little answers like that, just go to show that they don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to the Bible. They just want the rank and file to think they have all the answers and the rank and file won’t put their brains in gear to question it.
We read that stuff but didn’t think about what we were reading and that is because we were ordered to read all the magazines and so we read them, to get it over with. We didn’t really read them because they were interesting articles.
We read them to get it over with so if a householder asked us a question like “did you read it?”, we would be able to answer with a clean conscience, “yes I read it.”
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Carolina,
Good point, in fact I remember a question from readers that dealt with whether a jdub.could attend a bar mitzvah, somehow the answer was worked around Paul’s counsel concerning what sharing does Christ have with Belial, really, like Paul never stepped foot in a synagogue. So the Jews were devil worshipers? Didn’t Jesus and Paul and James , ect….all worship at the temple and local synagogue.
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 26, 2015 at 5:07 pm
@Pow, the things we read and never questioned it. We would never have believed that the Society would ever deceive us. Now I look at absolutely everything they say and do with a skeptical eye and can see it so clearly that it’s all smoke screens.
What sickens me so much is that now that I can see it for what it really is, is that when people around me talk about the “truth” like it’s really the “truth”, I want to scream at them what I have found out and I can’t. It is so frustrating. They go on and on about it and I just let them but the whole time, my brain is screaming at them in my head that they are being made fools of by the Society and I bite my tongue and let them think they are “encouraging” me.
I can’t even roll my eyes at them. They always have to say a prayer and I can’t even bow my head. All I do is smile at them while they go on and on. It’s the worst kind of hell a person can live through. It’s like I am the only one living in a mental institution that is sane. They all think I am the crazy one but I know they are the one that is under mind control. If it wasn’t for the fact that if I disassociate myself, I’d be disfellowshipped and wouldn’t be able to talk to my kids, I’d divorce them so fast.
It is so great being able to vent here. It helps us realize that we aren’t the crazy ones.
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 4:40 pm
The GB conveniently chooses when the law convenant came to an end; the law covenant ended only when it suits them – isn’t the two witness rule at Deuteronomy 19:15 which they use to protect pedophiles also a part of the laws given under the law covenant?
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 5:33 pm
Oh I get it. Jesus did repeat the two witness rule in the New Testament at Matthew 18:16 so I guess that makes the two witness rule OK.
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idontbeliveyou says:
October 25, 2015 at 11:12 am
I dont even read it.
Cause i just can not believe how stupid you all pretend to be.
This one part of article clearly says that JW is true religion.
How blind all of you has to be to not see it?
*** w12 9/1 p. 15 Now I Know the God I Worship ***
Though my father and brother now vehemently opposed me, two weeks before my baptism as a Witness, I mustered up the courage to go home to burn all the things I had used in my former work as a pastor. After doing so, I realized that any special powers previously given to me were gone. In the past, when I slept, I felt that something was constantly pressing down on me. That feeling was gone too. The shadows I used to see at the window of my room never appeared again. My study of the Bible had taught me that any so-called gifts today, like the power to heal, are not from God but from wicked spirits. I am so happy that I broke free from their influence, just as the servant girl did whom Paul freed from “a demon of divination.”—Acts 16:16-18.
Why would demons leave her?
WHY?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Donald duck says:
October 25, 2015 at 11:42 am
Who’s to say this experience is true… Personally I think just telling this experience is weird. I don’t talk about demons at all! Witnesses are more preoccupied with the spirit world more than any group I know..:/
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Catalina says:
October 25, 2015 at 12:11 pm
You got that right. Before I became inactive I remember during a meeting some comments made about spiritism. While I was inactive my step daughter played a cassette tape in my car of ghost stories. The copy right date was 1959. The stories I heard on the cassette tape were identicle to the comments I heard at the meetings. That was the first time I realized I what I heard at the meeting was fiction.
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dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 2:55 pm
@idontbeliveyou:
There are members of other religions who have also claimed that demons stopped attacking/harassing them once they joined that religion. Would that make those religions true as well or is it only the JW religion that is true when its members have this kind of experience????
It seems to me that you have fallen for the ‘specialness’ ploy used by the GB whereby the GB creates a ‘specialness’ about the JWs so that they can in turn claim that on account of this ‘specialness’ JWs must be right:
1. Only JWs use God’s name.
2. JWs will be persecuted for their faith. Satan will cause relatives and friends and other religions to say bad things about the religion. So we must be doing it right as, after all Jesus did tell us to expect persecution.
3. The demons can’t attack you if you flee to Jehovah’s organization.
Freedom from demonic attack/harassment has also been claimed by members of other religions so maybe the JWs aren’t so special after all???? So, I wonder if the JW religion is really the true religion????
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dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 3:28 pm
Alleged claims of freedom from demonic harassment/attacks does not in and of itself proove that the JW religion is the true religion since this is not a unique experience – members of other religions have also claimed to experience freedom from demonic harassment/attacks when they joined those religions.
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dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 4:02 pm
*prove
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Grace says:
October 25, 2015 at 4:45 pm
I can say that from experience and this story will sound far-fetched but it is true. A couple of years ago, my cousin had a so-called “demon possession” experience inside her kingdom hall with elders holding her down while she was spitting at them & screaming foul language at them. Apparently she was so strong that the 5 men that had to calm her down were struggling to hold her down.
It came out that she has been diagnosed with some severe mental illness. I don’t exactly know what she has been diagnosed with because I was leaving the religion at the time & was labelled by her as an apostate for not going along with the whole superstitiousness of it all. I kind of thought that she was inviting the whole thing on anyway. Also, if she really was possessed & the kh is god’s house & is free from demons then why did she have it in the kh.
So many people were having mental illness problems & physical illnesses that were making them depressed that I started to question the sanity of this religion & the impact it had on everyone. Then it dawned on me how much the underlying negative messages were. Everything was so negative with a topping of fantasy to sweeten it.
At the time, I felt like the woman in the original 1984 film where she was looking out of the window at the woman hanging the clothes out on the washing & longing for that sense of freedom. The sad, tragic thing about that movie was that they went back because the mind control & groupthink was so powerful.
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Ejecting to Sanity says:
October 25, 2015 at 4:26 pm
Just lost the screen while I was writing a comment, so if anything across not finished, that’s me..
Not many surprises in the guidelines, it just reinforces the controlling aspect of the cult. The rigidity and the inability of ‘appointed’ ones to use common sense, impartiality and empathy is truly heinous.
After 20 years in and currently doing a quick fade, I have seen so many cases of rules being overlooked for those who are a pioneer, part of an elder’s family, or just good at sucking up. But have any independent action or thinking, secular success, family problem or brain usage and any of these rules would be used to the maximum against you..
Examples: sterilization in families has not ever been an issue in the standing or privileges in congregation here. Our presiding overseer and his wife were in Bethel for a time and she had her tubes tied while she was there. She just didn’t want children. And when my husband had a vasectomy, it was certainly not frowned upon. Had we been on tbe outs then, apparently this was shameful decision.
Also, the common practice of friending disfellowshipped family and former associates on Facebook and other social media. Our disfellowshipped ones and uninterested young adults are frequently asked about, talked to, eat at families homes, etc..and the common phrases when asked about this person is: ‘well Jehovah knows their heart’. This is certainly in contrast to what the same families would say at a meeting when answering who’s going to make it into Armageddon. There they would follow the direction and say’ Oh only us wonderful baptized in good standing witnesses’. I don’t know how they keep a straight face when commenting.
Anyway rules are made to be used for ugly purposes and watch out if you look funny at them when they’re breaking them theirselves. You’re in for it!
As I’m exiting, I’ve shared some the rules and expected behavior conditioning with friends from work and life (yes, I have always maintained WORLDLY friends. .ao naughty) and they are appalled by what I and others have accepted as truth, standards and doctrine. If I hear anyone us studying, I will find them and give them a copy.
Thank u for this site..it’s truly helped me to have courage to choose this great life forward!
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Doc Obvious says:
October 25, 2015 at 5:56 pm
Watchtower states that it is nonpolitical. Really? Think about the following.
A lawyer is a person who practices or studies law; an attorney or a counselor. Watchtower has lawyers on their staff. What is a law? A law is a rule made by a
government that states how people may and may not behave in society and in business, and that often orders particular punishments if they do not obey, or a system of such rules. Therefore, the government creates laws. Who in particular creates the laws in the government? In the United States laws are created by Congress. Congress is made up of men and women who represent political parties. A political party is an organization
of people which seeks to achieve goals common to its members through the acquisition and exercise of political power. Who ultimately owns the political
power? Could it be…Satan.
Watchtower believes that having lawyers on staff is acceptable. Jesus Christ, while he was on earth, did not have one lawyer on his staff. Jesus did not want
his father’s laws to be interfered with government laws. Jesus would state having lawyers on his staff would be a conflict of interest.
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Anonymous says:
October 25, 2015 at 6:43 pm
The Watchtower never states it is non-political, but neutral. However, being neutral in their view means they are not taking a stand, or side, on any issues, which as we can see from the halal and hijab codes listed here is not the case. They clearly have a moral stand and moral stands ARE political in that they affect the lives and rights of individuals, just as laws do.
That leadership doesn’t seem to follow the same “boogey-man” behind the political system fears as the r/f would indicate the leadership doesn’t really buy into the beliefs being served up. After all, the sovreign is never subject to the laws imposed on the plebes.
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Doc Obvious says:
October 26, 2015 at 10:24 am
The Watchtower magazine’s masthead states that they are nonpolitical. Here is the quote: “This magazine has been published continuously since 1879 and is nonpolitical.”
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JBob says:
October 27, 2015 at 10:39 am
The masthead does read that, but the group overall uses the term neutrality when it is asked about political stance and views. And, the magazine doesn’t print articles specifically endorsing candidates, but as you stated, and I did above, it is highly political because moral stands ARE what influences legislation.
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Ted says:
October 25, 2015 at 6:12 pm
All kinds of people suffer all kinds of hallucinations
and delusions. Religion seems to have more than
it’s fair share,
And no wonder, the idea of a very exacting God
intruding constantly on every private thought,
24 hour surveillance, it’s enough to drive anyone
mad, not everyone can deal with that scenario.
Orwell got it right.
Then the very ones who have created the problem
claim they are the only ones with the cure. It’s the
oldest con in the world. It’s not just the JW org,
we need to wake up from.
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Kat says:
October 25, 2015 at 6:48 pm
From my experience what I have found of those that are recruited many seem to have had some sort of demonic experience in their lives before becoming a JW, and they experience more while studying, JW say its because the demons don’t want to let you go and just say Gods name out loud and they will flee, get rid of all books or things on the occult or anything someone may have given you that was involved in the occult, and crosses and heavy metal music and so on….
But these people all seemed to not be happy after becoming a JW, and had depression and mental issues.
I think the JW religion does attract a certain type for the most part.
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dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:07 pm
@Kat & Grace:
Good points.
There was also some research done on the problem of mental illness among Jehovah’s Witnesses by Dr Jerry Bergman, a former JW elder. He discussed some of the issues in the following video:
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dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 7:15 pm
Correct link for Dr Jerry Bergman’s video:
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Grace says:
October 25, 2015 at 9:59 pm
Thank you Dee,
That is a very interesting video. I would love to see stats on the mental state of JW’s. I do believe that it attracts those with prior mental health issues as was my cousin who was converted. She always had signs of something amiss & was the sweetest personality but over the years it seemed as though she was getting sicker & sicker. I also noticed that she became hypersensitive about demons & it became her focus a lot of the time.
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dee says:
October 26, 2015 at 4:57 pm
Grace:
Dr Jerry Bergman also wrote a book: “Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Illness”.
It was published in 1992 so any stats on the mental state of JWs which it may contain would be dated.
Also, http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mental-issues.php
documents quite a few studies which have been done on Jehovah’s Witnesses & Mental Health. Some of the studies mention the sample sizes used for the study.
dee says:
October 25, 2015 at 9:44 pm
@Kat:
“I think the JW religion does attract a certain type for the most part”.
Could it be that such persons are overwhelmed by life’s challenges as they find it difficult/ lack the ability to cope with life’s problems or get in control of life’s challenging situations and this difficulty/inability causes them to have mental health problems?
This inability to cope is what causes them to be attracted to the JW religion because of the fantasy paradise doctrine, as they see paradise as a panacea to their inability to cope with life’s problems?
But once they are in the religion constantly hearing the negative message about how bad everything around them is, as this thought must be kept foremost to remind them of the imminence of Armageddon, they become depressed from hearing too much negativity and this exacerbates any mental health issues which they may have had before joining the religion?
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JBob says:
October 27, 2015 at 10:43 am
There’s an interesting parallel. During the deepest parts and the final wind-down of the Cold War, the NATO powers held “nuclear Armaggedon” drills which required all military teams to be on full alert 24/7. These teams were under tremendous mental health strain. Compare that to JW’s who are constantly under an “Armaggedon” drill 24/7, always on the watch, and terrified of misconduct booting them out of the “bomb shelter.” Yeah, no mental health issues? I think not.
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 11:54 am
Constant fear & guilt that if you do not do what the GB says then God is going to do you something bad = Constant Mental Strain = Mental Health Issues.
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Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 3:25 am
Really, who is to know who is influencing us anyway? It would be easy to fake these things as if they were really coming from the true God. We were ripe for the pickins. Real suckers.
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Catalina says:
October 25, 2015 at 10:06 pm
I agree with what was said towards the end of this video. For me it is traumatic to be shunned by my family but in the long run I am happier. It took months for me to feel better. I say, It doesn’t work well to go back to what didn’t work. I was born and raised in the ‘truth’ I left it the first time in 1988. I felt guilty when I left for letting my family down. I returned a year ago and saw it was worse than when I left. They are like puppets. The society controls their mouths, minds and actions. They are unhappy. That’s why it’s so unhealthy. No one is allowed to think for themselves. Because of their marking and shunning policy they are very judgmental. This causes them to dislike each other and in the end it even causes them to dislike themselves, that explains the mental illness.
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Catalina says:
October 26, 2015 at 12:19 am
Dee you are right. The nice thing about this site is listening to people who make sense.
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Catalina says:
October 26, 2015 at 12:31 am
I agree, many who come into the religion already have mental issues. They are worshiping a God who can’t stand mankind so much he brought on the flood to destroy them and in the end he couldn’t even stand himself so he felt regret for doing the flood. I don’t know. It sounds so warped to me.
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Kat says:
October 26, 2015 at 3:05 am
I agree Dee and as the time passes and no Armageddon but more of the same it puts ones hopes up then you go down again, up and down up and down, no wonder people in this religion can’t cope and suicide especially if they are DF and lose family and friends they have nothing to hang onto. Fighting to come back into the religion feeling unworthy takes its toll.
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 26, 2015 at 4:48 am
One week ago, my husband went to the hospital for some tests and they ended up keeping him for a week. While he was in the hospital, two of the elders from his congregation came to see him. They are lovely men, especially when they drove eighty miles one way. They were dressed in suits and looked really nice. You could tell they were “shepherding” my husband.
When they were there, they asked my grown son to read a scripture to my husband and when my son was done reading the scripture, the one elder commended my son on what a good job he did reading the scripture. My son has been baptized since he was a teenager and is in his thirty’s and loves the “truth” and so commending him like that was demeaning.
Reading that scripture to my husband was demeaning and it insulted my husband. I told my husband that those elders were doing their “job” as how they felt they should do. They had no idea by reading that scripture to “encourage” my husband was insulting but it was.
It was so nice of them to go to see him but what they don’t realize is that we are all supposed to be “ministers” on equal standing when you are a Witness.
When a fellow Witness “encourages” us by reading scriptures to us, they are saying in effect that “that they are “above” you in the “truth” but we all supposed to be ministers on an equal plane.
When a paid minister from Christendom goes to the hospital to visit patients, they are being paid to do that and the patient expects the minister to read scriptures to the patient but when a fellow “minister” of Jehovah’s Witnesses goes to the church, who is the “minister”?
Can you imagine that a paid preacher from a church is lying in a hospital bed and a “lay” person comes to the minister’s room and starts reading scriptures to the paid preacher who is lying in the bed to “encourage” the paid preacher?
Why would all of a sudden the lay person start “encouraging” the paid minister with scriptures? Shouldn’t the lay person be quiet and wait for the paid preacher to start reading the scriptures, even if that paid preacher is lying in the bed? That is not how it works when the church members are paying a preacher to be their minister when it comes to Bible understanding.
When my husband has been in the “truth” since birth and he is seventy years old, he shouldn’t be treated now as if another elder is the “minister” and he is not a fellow minister.
When we are called into a committee meeting or any other time we are with fellow “ministers” we should all be treated with equal respect and when the elders start with the scriptures and we are not allowed to get out the Bible and show them scriptures where they are going wrong, they are putting themselves in the position as the paid preacher in a church and we are the “lay” person who doesn’t know anything about the Bible.
When the Society tells us that we need to be “obedient” to elders, they are saying that we are no longer ministers but “lay” people.
It isn’t just the elders who think they are superior. Anybody who isn’t “just” a publisher is put in their place by the next person up the ladder who gets more time in service or is a man.
No matter how much the Society likes to tell new people who are studying that we are all equal, it is not true.
Those rules that the Society has come up with, proves that.
Reply
JBob says:
October 27, 2015 at 10:48 am
Pecking order–google search it.
Reply
elderfaded says:
October 26, 2015 at 6:40 am
The posting of the “correspondence guidelines” manual brings to attention an issue that has always been an unsettling inside paradox. ( status of citizenship ) I served as an elder for almost 20 years (as P.O. / C.O.B.E. , school overseer, WT conductor and secretary) and have faded from the Organization about 3 years ago. But during my time as an elder, our congregation shared a multi congregation Kingdom hall capable of holding more then one meeting at the same time. Among the Congregations that shared the facility were 3 foreign language congregations. Two were Spanish. It was common knowledge that within the Spanish appointed bodies – ½ of the elders and about 1/3 of the ministerial servants were “ illegal aliens “ and did not have the legal right to be in the country nor work within it. Although many of them had been in the country for many years. One time after a “ operating committee “ meeting between congregations a couple of us asked the P.O. of one congregation and substitute Circuit Overseer (unbeknown to us an illegal himself) how is it that men are appointed despite the clear direction within the “ shepherd “ and the “ pay attention “ book that such men “ would not qualify or be considered exemplary because of a loss of freedom of speech “ because of their status. His response ? He said that many brothers have had to give parts about obeying Caesars law … despite the fact that they themselves were also in violation of it! He said it’s a topic that only gets mentioned lightly
He said: The honest answer is … If the Society enforced that … then there would never be anyone to take the lead! He said it’s an example of Bible counsel NOT APPLYING TO MODERN TIMES ! I never forgot that. It was a prime example of what is written for guidelines and instruction was ALWAYS negotiable, it could be omitted if it was uncomfortable. Conversely it could be strictly enforced to the letter of the law … If you just plain old didn’t like the individual you were counseling ! Fair ? Consistent ? Scripturally Guided ? Spirit Moved ?. We were taught constantly both orally and in written form that jehovah’s Laws were unmovable and to be obeyed, no matter how difficult, because doing so yielded peaceable fruit. Just one proof to me at the time , that what was written was not from God … but wishy washy doctrine of men !
Reply
Ted says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:10 am
The title, “Correspondence Guidelines” indicates that this
document was needed because of questions coming in from
the R & F. Unlike the Apostle Paul, a mature Christian, who
felt no guilt in buying meat from the market and asking no
questions about it. The guilt of JWs is so intensely cult-ivated
that many need to go into every nuance, for example, 8 pages
devoted solely on questions of employment.
A dependence on the self appointed God”s org, is created
to sort out the minutiae and provide answers and reassurance.
Despite claims to the contrary, mature Christian development
is neither encouraged or produced. Using the Bible and your
own conscience to make your own decisions is strongly
discouraged. WT Oct 1st, 1967 p 587, “The Bible cannot be
understood without Jehovah’s Org, in mind”,
WT July 1st 1967 p 338, “There’s no need to spend a lot of time
in Bible research, there are bros, in the org, assigned to do that
for you”
In an association of Mature Christians, a document entitled
“Correspondence Guidelines” would be superfluous, not
needed. Only immature children are dependant on others
to make decisions for them.
Reply
Tara says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:55 am
When I first came into the ‘truth’ I was impressed that I was encouraged to search for the answers myself. I remember the sister who studied with me, telling me that she herself was brought up Catholic and that when she asked her priest a question he would tell her not to worry about questioning the scriptures because that is what the church was for. That they understood them and that they – the cong. only had to follow what they said. My church, Protestant, never said anything to us, just read scripture on a Sunday and told us to be good for the week. So the ‘truth’ was amazing and I loved studying and asking questions.
Now I am too scared to ask a single question about anything because of the inquisition that will follow. So I stay quiet, do no study and just pray to the God I knew before I went to any religious organisation. He looked after me then and I trust him to do the same now without any man made org. telling me what I can and can’t believe.
I am sad though. I have no friends in the world and have slowly pushed the ones away in the hall because I know they – or most of them are conditional friends who will not be around when I fade out completely or end up being investigated and df’d. It’s a lonely life.
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
October 26, 2015 at 9:40 am
It really is Tara…. I am in the same position…. and though they are lovely people you cannot trust them…they think they are ‘saving’ you and if they tell on you they are keeping the congregation clean…. I am trying at the age of 57 after a lifetime in this cult to forge a life for myself outside while still just slowly fading…it is lonely…thats why this site is invaluable…it gives us the validation we need without judgment….I have listened to wise advice from Excelsior…JB…and sympathised with the experiences of ruthlee and meredith…it is a gift and though life in our situation can be lonely its good to know we are not alone.
Reply
fader~blues says:
October 26, 2015 at 11:15 am
dear lonely Tara, Please know I am a friend,whatever u do…me,myself & others too. really appreciate ur humor,we share the same hollow feelings….wishing family was a million miles away…to make things legitimate & real,for the phone y excuses for not coming by,which leave u simply reeling! To me u are so very dear,dearer than any Phone y sister with a foggy brain~ U help me see things so much clearer!! So maybe it’s time somebody told ya,Tara…your comments bring happiness to my soul & thats testimont that we all cara!!!
Reply
Tara says:
October 26, 2015 at 5:56 pm
Well that’s me all teary now…. that is one of the nicest things anyone has said to me in a long time. Thank you fader blues…. yes, this site is family. I know who my brothers and sisters are… even the odd ones lol. We’ve all been put through the wringer one way or another haven’t we. Aw shucks… that was so nice. lub you lot x
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:56 am
Great that this 2011 Correspondence Guidelines for JW Bethelites has been leaked and is now available to all who wish to access it. Knowledge is power, as we all know; and facts should be able to withstand scrutiny.
I, for one, might well be able to prove to one of my JW extended family members that the diktats on blood transfusions/blood fractions have indeed changed over the years. I was recently told that this wasn’t so. Now I can present the ‘Blood’ section of this document, should the subject again be brought up by that family member.
Congratulations to all involved with this leak. So many people are going to be helped by this further exposure of the Watchtower Society’s secretive, high-control rules and regulations. Every leak like this erodes jw.org’s power and influence, and leads to more good-hearted rank and file JWs waking up. Well done!
Reply
Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:42 am
Look up the Jensen letters, correspondence between an elder and the service desk. ..if there still available on line. long read but definitely leads one to the conclusion that the g.b. is just making up arbitrary rules as they go….without any need to even be consistent, kinda like defining a generation as consisting of anyone who overlaps another. Which means here in the United States that the generation that remembers Lincoln’s assassination is getting.up there in years.
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
October 27, 2015 at 4:50 am
Thanks for the ref, Pow. I’ll look that up. Best wishes.
Reply
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← The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out? →
Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
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Posted on October 23, 2015
The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower's correspondence department
The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower’s correspondence department
The last few weeks will have been deeply frustrating for the Governing Body, as multiple leaks have exposed a growing resentment of their attitudes and policies among an increasing number of bethel workers.
And now a fresh leak from a Watchtower insider has blown the lid wide open on how the organization deals with issues affecting the rank and file.
“Correspondence Guidelines” is a 118-page document issued to key staff at bethels around the world, giving cookie-cutter responses to a long list of scenarios involving various doctrines.
Previously only available to a privileged few, a 2011 edition of the document is now freely available, effectively meaning that anyone who has the document knows how Watchtower will reply to almost any letter they write before they even put pen to paper.
For the avoidance of further entanglements with Watchtower’s legal department over its interpretation of copyright law, we at JWsurvey have decided not to distribute the Correspondence Guidelines on this website.
Whether you, the reader, choose to access the material from elsewhere on the internet is entirely your decision.
pictureThe Correspondence Guidelines were virtually unheard-of until mentioned by former Governing Body member Ray Franz in his follow-up to Crisis of Conscience – In Search of Christian Freedom – on page 242.
in-search1 The subject list continues over a further two pages before Franz summarizes on page 245…
in-search2After spending an hour or so last night perusing the pages of this fascinating document, I can fully concur with Franz’s characterization of it as “Talmudic.” A plethora of subject headings delve into areas as diverse as transvestism, refugees, animal blood, hermaphrodites, sterilization and “retarded persons” with giddying pedantry.
The writers of the document themselves seem to recognize how ridiculous it is by their attempts at defending it in their opening remarks…
Bear in mind that much of what is published on matters of conduct is to be viewed not as law but rather as mature Christian counsel. So it is not always necessary to think in terms of imposing sanctions if a person does not fully conform to the counsel given.
But this disclaimer is overtly contradicted on only the next page…
If the one inquiring reflects a challenging, disrespectful attitude, it may be advisable first to contact the elders to determine the person’s standing in the congregation and what assistance they have been able to render.
Therefore, anyone who writes to the organization with anything other than praise and flattery, or who gives the impression they know what they’re talking about, can expect their local elders to get a phonecall – an underhanded breach of confidence that surely represents a “sanction” in and of itself.
Further contradictions present themselves as the reader delves into the various subjects. For example, accepting a blood transfusion without regret, even if it proves to be life-saving, remains a disfellowshipping offense…
A baptized person who willfully and unrepentantly takes a blood transfusion thereby chooses to reject the Scriptural sanctity of blood and violates God’s law. Three elders (not a judicial committee) should meet with him. If a blood transfusion has been accepted without repentance, the congregation will consider that the person has disassociated himself. It would then be announced: “[Name of individual] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” The matter would be dealt with as in other cases of disassociation.—w86 10/15 31; w73 9/1 543-4.
But if you happen to be a JW nurse or doctor, and you are instructed to administer a blood transfusion to a non-JW patient, you can do so without fear of reprisals…
A Christian who is a nurse or a doctor respects the Scriptures and therefore would not recommend or order a blood transfusion for a patient. If he or she as an employee is not responsible for deciding the matter and is directed by a superior to administer a transfusion to a non-Witness, whether to obey is a matter for personal, conscientious decision.—w99 4/15 28-30; w75 4/1 215-16.
On the other hand, if you’re a farmer and allow a blood transfusion for one of your animals, expect a slapped wrist at the very least…
It is not proper for a Christian to administer a blood transfusion to an animal owned by him or to authorize another to do so.—w64 2/15 127-8.
Since this is a 2011 edition, we have no way of knowing whether the subject of child abuse has been addressed more comprehensively in more recent editions (which seems likely given all the media exposure on that subject since the Candace Conti victory in 2012).
Even so, given the fact that mishandling of child abuse among Jehovah’s Witnesses has been highlighted since at least 2002 (when BBC Panorama and Dateline documentaries first exposed the issue to a mass audience), you would expect the safeguarding of the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses from sexual predators to merit more column inches than, say, discussing the propriety of Tae Bo.
But child molestation gets only three passing mentions in this document. Pages 41 and 110 give far-from-unequivocal guarantees that molesting a child will prevent a Witness male from serving in a position of responsibility.
For example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.
Some who are guilty of child molestation, even if not disfellowshipped for such actions, might never qualify for special privileges in the congregation.
Then on page 53 the writers ponder the situation of a minor girl who is raped and falls pregnant. Rather than worrying about the girl’s well-being and the urgent need to pursue justice for her assailant, attention turns to the living arrangements of the resulting baby, and whether the abused child will have to marry her attacker or not.
Child that results either from fornication or from rape of a minor girl: The father of the single, minor girl (or the mother in a singleparent home where there is no father) bears the responsibility to decide whether the infant will be raised in the home or elsewhere. It shows consideration on his part to consider the minor’s valid wishes. He must also decide whether to permit the girl to marry the male who caused the pregnancy. Being pregnant does not require marriage to the father of the child simply to avoid illegitimacy. A hasty or improper marriage may only make a bad situation worse. Emotional support from individuals in the congregation is sometimes helpful.
The failure of the writers to adequately explore and address what we now know to be a rampant problem of child abuse in the organization, with 1,006 suspected pedophiles on the records of Watchtower in Australia alone, highlights either stunning naivety on the part of the Governing Body (who will have sanctioned this material), or deliberate negligence of their duty to protect children from a clear threat.
Ray Franz described the "Correspondence Guidelines" as "Talmudic"
Ray Franz described the Correspondence Guidelines as “Talmudic”
The proper handling of domestic violence, also a huge problem in the organization, is similarly given short shrift. Page 51 briefly mentions court action as being favorable in the case of a violently abusive husband for the protection of his victim, but nowhere does it suggest that a believing woman who finds herself in such a situation would be allowed to find happiness with a new husband.
In contrast to the terse treatment of such a pressing issue that affects battered spouses in countless marriages, nine pages are devoted to the various nuances of divorce, adultery and remarriage. Every conceivable permutation of marital infidelity is explored in fanatical detail.
Again, “Talmudic” is the only word that can do justice to Watchtower’s obsession with sex and morals. And only the word “pharasaical” can describe their corresponding indifference to the countless victims, past, present and future, of physical abuse in its various forms.
Finally, I was struck by the section on “bloodguilt,” which had the following to say…
The Bible condemns murder, a sin for which a person may be disfellowshipped.—Rev. 21:8.
Bloodguilt may also be incurred if a person causes loss of life through carelessness or because of violating a traffic law or other safety law of Caesar. If a Witness is liable for someone’s death in an accident, the elders should investigate and if warranted appoint a judicial committee to hear the matter, for the congregation wants to avoid community responsibility for bloodguilt.
One can’t help but wonder just how much blood is on the hands of Watchtower leaders past and present, from Knorr to the likes of Morris, Splane and Lett, for the countless lives that have been lost due to the ridiculous prohibitions on blood.
How many lives have been brutally cut short as a result of indoctrinated cult victims declining medical treatment with blood, a practice on which the scriptures are silent? We may never know. And that is to say nothing of the unknown number who have ended their lives as a result of Watchtower’s ruthless shunning practices.
One thing is certain, namely that the Governing Body won’t be making changes to save lives or protect the vulnerable any time soon. But at least there is some comfort in knowing that a growing number within bethel corridors are awakening to the full reality of a shared struggle, and working with myself and others to give thorough exposure to this devastating cult.
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Further reading…
◾PDF download of Crisis of Conscience, by Ray Franz
◾PDF download of In Search of Christian Freedom, by Ray Franz
◾Recent articles on leaks related to downsizing
Related video…
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← The Tight Pants Rule: Wearing “disturbing” clothing gets you banned from preaching
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out? →
343 Responses to Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
← Older Comments
Nestor Kuilan says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:51 am
I remember when I was working in the Service Department of the Branch in Barcelona, Spain, looking for “guidelines” in this Talmudic” material. It was all about examples of different situations involving violations of the Watchtower policies and how to answer correctly.
The idea was to keep the organization uniform and to avoid personal thinking, they did the thinking for everyone.
At that time I was very appreciative of the “help provided” by the organization, not realizing that they were destroying my thinking capacities and I was transferring to them my right to take decisions about how to answer the correspondence.
Reply
Catalina says:
October 26, 2015 at 11:50 am
Nestor Kuilan, It is so nice people with backgrounds like yours are on this website. Sometimes my comments sound really negative. In reality, believe it or not, I am a very positive person. I’m working at getting my mind straight. It wasn’t until several months ago I figured out how off the organization is. I’m in good standing. My husband passed away over two years ago and my family is shunning me because I remarried and my new husband is catholic. When I told my sister I remarried she said, “You never learn, your dead to me.” My feelings were hurt and I went through depression for a year. My family is giving my husband a terrible witness. I love my new husband. He is 71 years old. He is the finest man I have ever known. He is easy going, meek and mild. I can’t approve of any religion that causes family to act so judgmentally. Even so I’m still wrapping my head around all of this. In the JW religion I see sometimes JW family is harder on their own family members than the rank and file.
Reply
tiger123 says:
October 26, 2015 at 11:59 pm
Catalina,
Just had to stop and say you are so brave, it is refreshing to hear that you chose a good man, not a GB endorsed man. No age is to old to decide to start living and be happy and no hour to short to be minimized.
Best wishes and warm regards
Reply
Meredith J says:
October 27, 2015 at 2:07 am
So sorry to hear about your husband Catalina. But what a turn of events marrying a Catholic? He sounds like a real find.
I remember now you saying about what your sister said to you. What a horrible thing to say. It is just like the scripture where it says that a persons enemies will be persons from their own household. Let’s hope she gets to apologise one day. You do sound so positive. I have always picked that up about you.
Reply
Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 4:58 pm
Meredith, the people on this website are awesome. It takes people who have gone through these experiences to help others coming out of darkness. The comments I read are very helpful. What we have in common is we’re not full of hate or mental disease we are learning and getting our brains unscrambled. My husband blames himself and feels bad because he feels my family is rejecting me because of him. It makes me so mad anyone can make him feel bad. I showed him this website and so far I’ve only heard him say oh wow. It’s a good thing Lloyd shares documented proof. This helps me explain things to my husband. It’s awesome to see people with similar experiences.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
October 27, 2015 at 11:48 pm
@ Catalina. So do you still attend meetings sometimes? Does your landlord JW pressure you to attend? That is a problem living to close to other JW’s bc they are always in your business and snoop around for the Borg.Reminds me of a foeign movie I saw a few years that was taking place in East Germany during the late 1980’s right before the Berlin Wall came down. Everybody was suspicious of the other people and they would report you to the Commies if you challenged them or did not follow party line. They even had wire taps in peoples homes to try to trap them and listen to what they were saying.
Isaw it with my JW wife and I told her the WT was just like that and she got really upset with me and said I was an Apostate! lol The truth is they are not much different. They only are your Brothers if you follow party line and they are always ready to turn you in to the Borg.
Meredith J says:
October 28, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Yes, you are right Catalina. We are learning and getting our brains unscrambled. I had been shutting the damage out for a very long time as I had been trying very hard to straighten my life out. Nestor Kuilan got it right when he said that they took away our thinking capabilities. And yes, the people on here are awesome that’s for sure.
Holy Connoli says:
October 27, 2015 at 2:44 am
@ Catalina. The WT policies on everything is so restrictive and short term. They write tons of material on happiness and how to find it but look at the JW’s themselves. For the most part they are not happy. They have a higher rate of depression than the general public,I know when I was an Elder I was sincere and always wanted to help my brothers as much as I could and so many were not happy and depressed etc.
Even myself when I was an elder and true blue JW kept asking myself why I was not so “HAPPY” as the WT claimed we are the happiest people on earth? ( like Disney land lol! ) My personal opinion is that the WT takes away your basic freedom that God gave us to make personal decisions in life what is best for you and your family.
They also take away any personal incentive to do something productive with your life and therefore stifling human growth and creativity. Then they play mind games of guilt if you are not doing enough for the BORG or placing enough magazines etc. Then they put fear into you if you leave your family cannot speak with you.
I remember quite well when I was in my 20’s and 30’s thinking there was something wrong with me bc I questioned many of these Wacko statements the WT would come out with about doctrine and their policies on grooming, sports, music, college education,school participation, dating, association, employment,owning a home etc.It seemed they had their nose in every aspect of your personal life and you needed to TOW the WT way of thinking. I would just humble myself and kept telling myself that I must be wrong bc “MOTHER” knows best and I kept it to myself.It made me very distressed to nor have an open forum .
It goes on and on not to mention that you are not allowed to think or analyze what they say about flip flopping doctrine. Speaking of marriage the comment that Tony Morris made to the JW world and sisters about getting married and if you are dating someone that is not a MS and he is 23 years old or more Something is seriously wrong and you should not marry that person? What a bunch of nonsense. So if a young person is not a MS by 23 he is basically a bad guy not worthy of being a good marriage mate!
In the JW world there are so few marriage mates available and Tight pants Tony says do not marry of he is not a MS by 23 years old? As if someone status in the CONG determines if he is going to be a good marriage partner or not? If that was true then no Elders or pioneers or MS would ever get divorced or separated correct?
The entire line of reasoning is warped in the JW world and that is why so many are unhappy and conflicted and confused and judgmental. I am SO GLAD you found a great guy and he is kind and loving and supportive. That is all we need for a happy marriage and happy relationship.Real respect, real sharing, real understanding, open mindedness,working together.Happy for you!Don’t concern yourself with what your family says or thinks. Let them show their love towards their fellow man if they can. I am sure in their minds they are thinking…”maybe we can study with your new hubby and have him join the Borg”?
Reply
dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 10:34 am
@Holy Connoli
“In the JW world there are so few marriage mates available” for sisters.
The GB scares the hell out of the sisters by telling them that only JWs are good, all non-witnesses are bad so there is just no way you could possibly find a non-witness who could make a good husband despite the fact that JWs also have problematic marriages, get divorced or separated.
Many sisters suffer because of this fear that is driven into them by the GB. The lack of a marriage mate and the loneliness that it causes, causes a lot of depression and emotional distress for these sisters.
I know of a case of a sister who said that her mother had to hold her and comfort her as she cried herself to sleep at nights because Jehovah had not provided a mate for her in the “truth”.
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 12:10 pm
Constant guilt and fear that if you don’t do as the GB says then God is going to do something bad to you = Constant Mental Strain = Mental Health Issues
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Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 4:26 pm
Tiger123, Meredith, Holy Connoli, and Dee, You guys are awesome. This website is awesome because people like you are on here. Yes, yes, yes I share this website with my new husband. When Jehovah’s Witnesses come to our door he visits with them. A JW father handed my husband over to his son and my husband visited with them for 1 1/2 hours. My husband is very kind. My husband saw me cry and hugged me after I got off the phone with my sister a year ago because she believes I’m immoral. My land lord is a JW and saw my husband and I together in my apartment. I never admitted to anything. I am being shunned. I’m not immoral. I have never been an immoral person. This is the second time I married out of the truth. The way I’m being treated is what caused me to start to wake up. Honestly, it is so encouraging to read the experiences you guys have had with JWS. You guys we have a lot of things in common. It takes people who have gone through this (JW) to help people who are coming out of darkness. You h=guys are so helpful. I cannot thank you guys enough. You are AWESOME. I’m not alone.
Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 4:34 pm
I need to add, the reason I show this website to my husband is because he wants to understand why my family acts the way they do. He sees they never answer my phone calls. He feels bad for me. He feels really bad about all of it so he blames himself. That makes me angry. My family shouldn’t cause my husband to feel that way. Sometimes I sound negative. In reality I am figuring out what is going on. Yes I am that slow because I’m emotional about the whole thing. Having you guys in my life helps a lot.
Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 5:23 pm
I like what you said, they play mind games of guilt . They do a great job. I’m sorry I said the same things over and over again in my posts. I forgot I wrote them the first time. I need to do a better job at proof reading.
Holy Connoli says:
October 27, 2015 at 11:32 pm
@ Dee, U R right Dee about the constant Mental stress the WT puts on people either conscientiously or sub conscientiously. All of that pressure everyday all year long will cause mental stress. As humans if we are not allowed to express ourselves and have an open forum we can go crazy. The Wt does not allow you to think on your own in fact they like to warn us about “INDEPENDENT” thinking? Constant mental pressure, you are not doing enough, you are doubting, you are not “WHOLE souled” You should be pioneering, you are having to much fun, you are missing to many meetings etc.
I remember one Brother Jokingly said that the WT is afraid that somebody, somewhere might be enjoying life and that cannot be tolerated!
But it is true what he said.One Elder and myself wanted to go to a baseball camp years ago for a week and have fun and exercise and experience the sport at a different level. Then he backed out of the plan bc he said if anyone found out he was going he could be removed as an Elder!? What does that have to do with Christianity I asked him? He said , he had already been warned not to go! JW’s the religion of no fun!
Meredith J says:
October 28, 2015 at 7:57 pm
Catalina, your repetition is definitely not picked up by me. You are so kind, sweet, sensitive and very mild mannered. My husband is mild mannered and hardly like me but I do so admire that quality in people.
It is no wonder you never found a marriage mate in the truth. An MS by the time they are 23? Oh please! Then all the 23 year old males are made to feel that they are not complete somehow. What a way to give someone a serious complex? Or in other words “You are not worthy of a marriage mate.”
Tara says:
October 27, 2015 at 5:49 pm
Mt non witness husband left me 7 years ago for various whores etc on the oil rigs. He ended up marrying a woman who’s son he befriended. I was told to marry only in the lord… well there isn’t any brothers worth marrying if you can fins one at all. Out of the blue my first boyfriend contacted me via fb. He was ex army and he was willing to drop everything and come thousands of miles to marry me…. as it was it all fell apart when his aged parents got sick and he couldn’t leave them…. ah well. I’m still alone. I would refuse to marry a brother in the truth now anyways. Maybe one that was awake….. hmm I guess I will stay on my own and be a crazy cat lady. The WT drilled it into our minds that we have to marry in the truth… I’m glad you found someone Catalina and I wish you all the happiness in the world.
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Holy Connoli says:
October 27, 2015 at 11:37 pm
@ Tara. Are you still attending meetings? It sounds like you are by what you are describing bc I am just curious based on your comments.It sounds like you are still 1/2 way in. Either way not judging bc we all move at different paces.
Tara says:
October 29, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Yeah I turn up but don’t take part. Haven’t been out in service for months…. I can’t leave my daughter in there or my grandchildren. Saying that. the elders are wanting to see me this week….. I wish I could just walk away from it all and start a new life but they have chains on you that they tug emotionally regarding you kids.
scott says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:03 am
hello tara. the same issue applied to me. i could not get a good enough mate and somehow i have been alone since. the rules have not helped. i hope someday something good will come our way
dee says:
October 29, 2015 at 2:28 pm
@Holy Connoli:
“Constant mental pressure you are not doing enough………..”.
Another one for the list:
You will be bloodguilty if you don’t preach and persons get destroyed at Armageddon……….I suppose it will be the publishers’ fault that approx. 250,000 persons are born everyday and God will have to destroy them at Armageddon bc it just won’t be possible for 8 mil publishers (according to WT stats) to reach everyone in the world. LOL!
But it seems to me that this fear of bloodguilt certainly gets JWs moving. The fear of losing their own lives at Armageddon bc they didn’t preach enough is what seems to make JWs annoyingly persistent to the point where even if a householder adamantly states that he/she is not interested the JW never gives up trying to convert the person and they don’t realize that this can indeed be annoying.
I suppose that the elder ditched the baseball camp because he felt guilty that he should be out in field service instead of enjoying himself.
I also had similar experiences of inner conflict & guilt when I was a JW. For eg. I used to think that it would be wrong to be successful in this system of things – u are being too wordly , too much a part of Satan’s system if that were to be so.
The WT’s pervasiveness into every aspect of our personal lives certainly takes the control of our lives away from us; as a result, we may end up not making the best decisions for ourselves and our family or short changing ourselves by giving up opportunities that we should not have given up and end up living a life of regret.
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Catalina says:
October 29, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Holy Connoli, I don’t know if you are going to read this because several days have passed by sense the post. It happened today. My landlord and her husband are working on my husband. We live in apartment complex. Her husband is an elder and has offered to study the bible with my husband. My husband said no thank you but I feel nervous. I had a nightmare last night. I’m so glad my husband said no. I don’t know why I feel so intimidated. I know there’s nothing they can do to us. What’s the matter with me?
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Idontknowhatodo says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:27 am
There is nothing the matter with you Catalina… I know as do all of us it would be the biggest mistake your husband could make to cave in to a bible study…they are the ones with the problem not you…hopefully your husband wont give in because we all know what happens once they get thier claws into you…your husband sounds like a lovely man and you want to protect him and what you have…we have been brought up in fear…now we recognise who we really should have been afraid of…and we dont want to shut our eyes ever ever again…there is nothing wrong with you…your lovely…you have just woken up thats all.
Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 27, 2015 at 5:17 pm
@Catalina, you were so much better off marrying out of the “truth”. Those of us who have wakened up but our mate has not wakened up, are in the worst of positions. You are so much better off in your situation.
Most of the “happy” marriages that I have seen in the “truth” are those women who married out of the “truth”. The most miserable are those who married in the “truth”.
If your relatives can’t accept your new husband, they don’t deserve you and you don’t deserve being treated like that.
One of the sisters in my old congregation married out of the “truth” and nobody thought anything of it and the reason is that he owned a company and they are very rich and the brothers looked at him like he was a bank account for the taking (He died last year).
It all depends on who you marry and if you are still going to the meetings. If you marry somebody who is rich or a doctor or a lawyer, they won’t care at all. All they will see is money going into the contribution box.
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Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 5:37 pm
Caroline, Family is important to me. I do see there is no love there because of the JW religion. My sister would have complained she got away with it and she’s a bad example by getting married out of the truth. They are shallow. They go door to door and make meetings and aren’t bothered with anyone otherwise. It’s all for looks. I feel the proof Lloyd provides proves this. And Jw org is great at manipulation. The mind control takes time to separate from. I really feel I have friends on this website.
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 27, 2015 at 5:52 pm
@Catalina, you are so right. My cousins who think they brought me into the “truth” won’t have anything to do with me either. They deleted me off of Facebook and they all totally wrote me off. It shows me they were never my friends in the first place and I hate them for what they did to me and what they are still doing to me now. I don’t feel as if I could ever forgive them for it.
If the tables were turned, I would have gone to them to ask them why they stopped going to meetings.
I don’t believe the motive for what they are doing to me is because they love me and want me to live into the new world but they are just following orders from the Society and view me as demonic. That is why I can’t forgive them for shunning me like they are doing and I haven’t even been disfellowshipped. My children are not shunning me though and if the tables were turned and they were the ones that stopped going to meetings first, I would never do that to them, to shun them like that.
I hope you can forgive your relatives if you can. Maybe their motives are because they really love you and want you to live into the new world. That I could forgive.
Meredith J says:
October 28, 2015 at 8:20 pm
You know that reminds me of those sisters we had in our congregation who had unbelieving mates (I mean those who were already married when they were baptised). We had so many Watchtowers telling us how they were such self-sacrificing women who suffered greatly by having a mate who would not go to the meetings.
I already worked out that these women had the best of both worlds. One we had was married to a bank manager. She did not want for anything, never having to work, always having plenty of money to pay for petrol to pioneer, living in a beautiful house overlooking the beach. She had it made. All the others were pretty much the same. Their husbands had great jobs. They had plenty of money. They never got pressure to serve where the need was great, or to pioneer of course because they had an unbelieving mate of course. Oh that was having a foot in both camps.
Sorry if anyone here is in that situation, but really, this was where the Watchtower exaggerated the difficulties of those having an unbelieving mate. My husband who was an MS was under constant strain by the elders palming all their work onto him while he was trying to bring up a young family on a very low budget in a rented house and paying off our car. No, it was the families who were doing it toughest, not these other ones who were always favoured by the elders and put on a pedestal in the Watchtower study.
Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 29, 2015 at 2:58 am
@Meredith, the kids also have it best when their father is not a Witness because they get to do all the “fun” things that kids of both Witness parents can’t do. They can have their birthday parties and do Halloween and do sports and go to college and go to the prom and date.
The Society is not telling the truth when they pretend that Witness women have it harder when their husbands are not in the “truth”.
I figured that out a long time ago and they aren’t fooling any of us when they say that. We just aren’t allowed to say it out loud to anybody around us for fear of looking like we are saying the Society is lying to us or we will get called into the back room for counseling. We are not even aloud to THINK like like that.
Meredith J says:
October 29, 2015 at 3:09 am
Yes, and every body feels so sorry for them. Their sons get good jobs and have nice cars and they marry the most beautiful of the young sisters. And they get privileges to boot. Usually ending up as elders. Oh I know. It was all so hard to cope with. The inequality of it all.
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Don't want to say my name says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:34 am
Meredith
You actually made me cry. That was exactly how it was for my family, except both my parents were staunch JWs, but my other relatives were all married to wealthy unbelievers.
Everyone in their congregations fawned around them because of their lovely houses and luxurious lifestyles.
They had such an easy life, as you said – best of both worlds. Mine was awful. No one understood. I left; they all cut me off.
They continue to this day with a comfortable lifestyle that is very self-obsessed and materially focussed while outwardly acting as though nothing else matters except JW Org; entertaining high up ones in the Org at the houses provided by their unbelieving spouses and maintaining a sanctimonious holier than thou attitude towards me.
The hypocrisy makes me sick. I can’t wait until this Organisation collapses. Please let it be soon.
Meredith J says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:14 pm
It’s pretty bad isn’t it Don’t want to say my name when you go to every meeting and you end up in tears? I really feel for you going through life feeling like Cinderella. We too had our moments where we felt so looked down upon solely because we had chosen to follow the path the Watchtower were setting out.
You realise that you are the one now who has had their eyes opened, which I believe is a real privilege. I am sure your suffering is remembered by the One who counts. These ones knew how to play the system so that the Watchtower worked for them. Money talks with these people sadly. You know that is why we did not fit in anyway.
David Tritenbach says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:54 pm
Appreciate this information, how are are your parents treating you Lloyd? Has the ice broken at all since you became aware we were all living a lie?
I tried to find your personal biography how you came to the realization this was not the truth? I would love to read it and many of us would love to read more your not able to put on a fast pace site like jwsurvey. Can you write a book on your own personal journey plus a few others you feel represent a bigger sample of the Whole, people whose eyes were opened up in different way giving readers not only more chances to reflect on their own plight but additional details about all the new crazy doctrines and power-struggle changes we’ve experienced since Ray Franz Jr. died.
Ray Franz Jr. had a way with words, he respectfully told a story with lots of facts showing how the Watchtower was not right. I think you have access to some great talent Lloyd, I hope your father wake’s up and see’s this is a hoax. There’s no honor perpetuating a lie after almost 160 years of Crying Wolf like the Watchtower has done!
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rob says:
October 26, 2015 at 10:21 am
Just wondering something – If GB is directed by God’s Holy Spirit – why do they need 2/3 majority to pass “new light” or any other doctrinal changes or other procedures? Wouldn’t they always be unanimous?
Also, if judicial committees are directed by God’s Holy Spirit, would they not always be unanimous in their decisions? And again if Holy Spirit has directed the decision, why allow for an appeal?
Just wondering?
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 10:51 am
Rob, I can answer that question for you, and it’s helpful if recall some fine 70’s music that really provides the answer. .remember meatloaf the artist? ..”cause two outta three an’t bad….
Hope that helps.
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dee says:
October 26, 2015 at 11:48 am
@Rob
Of course the GB is directed by Holy Spirit…………it just so happens that Holy Spirit only directs 2/3 of them! LOL!
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Actigall Ur says:
October 26, 2015 at 11:18 am
You guys can write Brother James or Brother Slater at legaldept@jw.org and ask them if they’re still being advised to tell the courts that the “Faithful and Discreet Slave are not real” but “figurative” and thus cannot be held liable for litigation, and how much money they need to reserve in escrow for 8000+ child abuses cases. I’d say $9 billion. Nah, make that $11 billion just to be safe. Hmm you guys are making the Vatican blush!
While you’re at it, ask them if they can sleep at night with a good conscience knowing what they are doing is immoral and unethical and if they still believe that “Jehovah” is directing this organization.
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 11:28 am
Ouch !!!
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Grace says:
October 26, 2015 at 3:10 pm
Actigall Ur,
Wow is it really 8000 or more?
I would really like to write them an email. I thought that the F&DS argument used in court was absolutely dishonest & disgusting when I read that. We should all do it.
I would love write to my local paper (letter to editor section) to let people know (if they are interested) what questions to ask JW’s. I just haven’t come up with the right set of questions yet. I thought nothing confrontational just thought provoking gems that would make them think.
My letter would go something like this:
“Dear Editor,
Jehovahs Witnesses come to your doors with the best intentions as they truly believe that they have the one true religion & that all other religions are controlled by satan. They are an honest genuine people that want the best for everyone & especially want to save people from death at Armageddon which will be very soon.
I think that allowing them to answer the following questions would clear some misunderstandings by outsiders……”
Example Question: (This is where I’m stuck on questions that doesn’t turn the JW reader away).
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dee says:
October 26, 2015 at 4:48 pm
@Grace
“………want to save people from death at Armageddon which will be very soon.”
Just a suggestion:
“………want to save people from death at Armageddon which THEY THINK will be very soon.”
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Grace says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:26 pm
Yeah you’re right, although it’s hard to find the right words that doesn’t sound too apostate. So that they get to the questions.
Holly Chu says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:28 pm
Wow! I know figures are reaching very high for child abuse settlements and redress. I can only hope this news goes worldwide and is out on the media for all to see.
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Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:37 pm
Absolutely no surprise and that number is sure to grow because of their immoral code of justice. Really, anyone who is still in this cult should be careful that they don’t get caught up in all this litigation somehow as the GB push it all back on the congregations to fund their super scheme and claim that the little people are at fault and not them. You heard Geoffrey Jackson. He feels that all of this happened before he was around. Yeah right.
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Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:43 pm
I’ll bet at the moment they have their legal team working out a way so that they take no responsibility for the damage done. They’ll try and turn it around somehow. This is what they seem to have got away with in the past. JW.Org. No longer the Watchtower. Who thought of that brainwave? Hopefully, the wave of deserters will stop this from happening.
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ruthlee says:
October 29, 2015 at 3:40 am
vicarious liability THE GB will push it back on the trustees which means us who own real estate will get the bill so elders children and wives will be thrown to the dogs. I have proof I’m waiting on an article for the team to write to expand on this . We will see an evil scheme coming. All elders need to get themselves off the trustee list YOU have been warned.
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Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 7:58 pm
At least the Vatican acknowledges that they are at fault. This news should be spread far and wide that they believe they are not liable for any of this pedophile stuff. Wow, being in denial is even worse than what they have done and trying to wash their hands of it is absolutely disgusting. What is the word they always use? Abhorrent?
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 8:02 pm
I have a question, I’ve heard this number tossed around 8000. But if Australia which has 60k publishers, produced 1000 pedophiles (not victims or cases ), but pedophiles. How is it that the numbers don’t carry forward, as in the U.S. Branch is 15x larger then the Australian, therefore would they not be around 15000?,and the world wide number of publishers is 8x larger then that, so in less Australia had some kind of special unique situation, that would put the worldwide number well over 100 000.
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BBC says:
October 26, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Suffer the little children documentary had insider information that said there were 27,000 pedo’s in the database. And that was 10 years ago….
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Pow says:
October 27, 2015 at 8:10 am
In regards to that, I would assume those numbers only relate to the U.S. Branch and they sound conservative to me This also makes me think of the adage “that it’s not the fall that kills you but the sudden stop”, likewise, it’s not pedophiles that are suing the society it’s their victims. And pedophiles are notrouis for muti-victims (think Bill Cosby, or that children’s t.v. personality from England ‘s B.B.C.)
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Tara says:
October 28, 2015 at 4:28 pm
ex Sir Jimmy Saville (shudders)
Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 10:35 pm
That’s because they do Pow. One of the main reasons why I left in late 2002 was because a couple from Brooklyn Bethel, you may have heard of them Joe and Barbara Anderson were disfellowshipped for leaking out exactly that information.
Barbara had been working directly with the governing body when she came across a list which had 23,400 names on it. She found out that they were the names of all the reported pedophiles for the English speaking world. I do not fully remember the story of how she did it but she ended up blowing the whistle to the media.
The person who was in charge of this list was a governing body member. I will not mention his name, even though he is deceased, just in case it gets Lloyd into any hot water. While this was going on, an elder called Bill Bowen was having to deal with the issue of pedophilia within his own congregation. He could not believe the pathetic way in which it was handled, so he recorded a phone call to Brooklyn Bethel. He also had a crisis of conscience and took it the media too. He was disfellowshipped also. This was all shown on American Dateline. He later established silentlambs.org to have a place of refuge for all those who had been sexually abused in the Watchtower.
In the meantime, a woman claimed that the governing body member who was in charge of the “list”, had sexually abused her as a 13 year old but she was unable to prove it. She also was disfellowshipped and at the time she came forward, she was dying of cancer.
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Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 10:44 pm
(cont’d on) Her name was Pat Garza. Meanwhile a march was organised by Bill Bowen to protest about the situation, to make them change their ruling. The march was in 2002 where they walked a few blocks down to the Bethel gates.
When the GB realised what was happening, they sent their ‘slaves’ down to lock the gates. The marchers, who consisted of victims and their families stood on the steps and they had a ceremony where they gave out courage awards. It was amazing. Afterwards they left toy lambs as a symbol of the lambs or the innocent victims of child sexual abuse. I’ll never forget it. And nobody knew about it except a few of us who were paying attention to the internet.
So there is your answer Pow. Now that list has since ‘disappeared’ as a recent court case, failed to make it appear. I think it might have been Candace Conti.
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Pow says:
October 27, 2015 at 8:23 am
Yea Meredith Those numbers start to sound more plausible.
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Actigall Ur says:
October 28, 2015 at 2:38 pm
A lot of you are asking if it is only 8000+ cases world wide and the answer is I don’t know. I am just repeating the number given to me by my source as the number of pending cases. There will be more I am sure, but many of them will be difficult to prove and many will not even go to trial. Even so, this should have never have gotten past ONE if this was really “Jehovah’s only organization.” Unless of course, Jehovah himself is a pedophile. At this point anything is possible. Remember, “Jehovah” commanded “his people” many times to kill innocent children and animals so we’re dealing with a sick, deranged individual.
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dee says:
October 29, 2015 at 2:54 pm
@Actigall Ur
“…..this should never have gotten past ONE if this was really “Jehovah’s only organization”.
We were so brainwashed into believing that JWs are so different from the world and all other religions are Satanic and Oh what a spiritual paradise this is.
Well welcome to the real world! Surprise, surprise. JWs are plagued by the same problems that plague other religions as well – child sexual abuse, domestic abuse, divorce etc.
The JWs aren’t so superior to those other Satanic religions after all as the WT would like us to think – these things just don’t happen in Jehovah’s organization not.
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dee says:
October 30, 2015 at 7:08 am
When I used to be a JW and convinced that all other religions were evil and Satanic, someone once said to me: There is good and bad in all religions.
At the time of course I was convinced that there couldn’t possibly be any bad in my religion, as this is Jehovah’s organization and JWs are so different from the rest of the world since God’s Holy Spirit would always act to keep the congregations clean.
Maybe the Holy Spirit is a pedophile as well?
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dee says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:21 am
How ironic. It is the governmental system which the WT demonizes as evil and Satanic that now has to be rectifying the pedophile situation among the JWs.
Meredith J says:
October 26, 2015 at 1:31 pm
I just had another thought. As far as JW’s belief in how Christ died is concerned, I am definitely not convinced. They always claimed he died on a torture stake. This was something I found extremely hard to believe when I was studying.
Every other church in the world believes that Jesus died on a cross. In fact if I was to wear a cross around my neck, I would be immediately regarded as a Christian. Yet, the obstinate Watchtower Society quashed all that.
I even remember as a child reading about it in our old Encyclopedia Brittanica which was very precise. There was no mention of a stake. It has always been a cross. The things these men have degraded have to be relearned as a Christian. By their denial of this symbol, were they in fact adding weight to the spirit of the anti-Christ?
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An Old Admirer says:
October 27, 2015 at 9:35 am
@Meredith J . Enjoyed your prior posts & very well written& reasoned.You are so right about about the torture stake fiasco . Rutherford got rid of the cross symbol from the Watchtower in the early 1930s.
John 20v25 quite clearly shows the Greek word for ‘Nails’ in the hands is in the plural not singular. So Thomas was aware of more than one nail was used for Christ implement with the hands.
But even more damning for the Watchtower organisation is that Simon of Cyrene had to have carried the ‘Patibulum’ which is Greek for crossbeam & weighed between 80 and120 Pounds
In No Way could any man carry the stake which in the Greek is ‘Stipes’ which if only the stake was used any research would tell the GB this weighed between 175 pounds & 200 pounds! No man who had faced physical punishment or not could have carried the stake the approx 650 yards or about third of a mile to Golgatha ! Absolutely impossible .
It was well known the Romans left the stake in the ground & made any criminal carry the Patibulum (crossbar ) & then tie the criminal to the crossbar & hoist him up onto the stake .
Watchtower really know this but they would look extremely foolish if they backtrack now.
Meredith , I hope this has been of help to you & can be printed off & shown maybe to any doubting JWs?
I don’t know why but I feel we have exchanged comments before ?
Anyway keep up the excellent comments which I so much enjoy. You are doing well !
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An Old Admirer says:
October 27, 2015 at 9:38 am
@Meredith J . Apologies as I meant ‘Impalement’ not ‘Implement ‘ in my previous post.
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Grace says:
October 27, 2015 at 2:44 pm
It was their point of difference which makes for a successful company:
No pagan celebrations
No symbols of worship
No human leaders
No Tithing
Politically neutral
See! we have the only “truth”. But when you pull back the curtain, they’re guilty of all of the above.
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 7:56 pm
Companies, corporations differentiate themselves from their competition by finding a point of difference that will create a specialness about them in order to attract customers.
The Watchtower has certainly mastered this tactic as well…….after all they are a corporation, so no surprise there.
dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 6:37 pm
***a corporation dressed up as a religion.
Meredith J says:
October 27, 2015 at 3:03 pm
Thank you so much An Old Admirer for your well researched information. When it was related to me initially about the torture stake, it did not seem that strong an argument. It was one of those things you just bypass, which of course ends up being one of many bypasses that you do in your dealings with this mob.
I am so glad you brought up about Simon of Cyrene and the cross beam, which the Watchtower never seems to talk about very much. Good point. And it was that freak Rutherford who got rid of the cross. That says it all.
You know my husband and I left a long time ago, but I am so glad that I can speak about what made us leave, so that others can be helped in their answers about that period in the early 2000’s, which proves that the bad things they have done have not been improved upon. (what a long sentence)They have had their chance and they blew it. Hope you continue to speak as I am sure you also have a lot to say as you look beyond the obvious.
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An Old Admirer says:
October 27, 2015 at 3:36 pm
@ Meredith J. Well thank you for saying I look beyond the obvious . I think I have heard that somewhere else before? Anyway really pleased you & your husband got out which is good you have each other & that helps. Yes the child abuse cases & the way it is handled or should I say not handled is the most awful blight on the organisation which will soon catch up with them worldwide shortly not just Australia .
Anyway thank you for saying you think I have more to offer in my comments . Maybe ,but only sparingly. As I have learnt , quite recently would you believe ?To think a bit before I comment.
Amazing what you can learn in such a short space of time ?
Well Meredith , hope the future goes well for you & your husband.
Man from the lions pit says:
October 27, 2015 at 8:46 pm
@meredith J …it’s old article…FYIhttp://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130
all the best,
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ruthlee says:
October 29, 2015 at 3:44 am
Of course He died on a cross! Its the visible symbol that identifies a Christian and we have been denied that fundamental right to display our faith in that symbol. rl
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Pow says:
October 26, 2015 at 2:46 pm
I thought I would share this, hopefully it’s not too far off topic, the Elders just recived a letter the other day, not anything really news worthy, except for one point. The letter has to do with the way any exterior information board should refer to the meetings now. At the end of the short letter it states something to the effect of “if you incur expenses in regards to this change, it’s your problem, not ours”.
Never seen that before, maybe since the branch raided everyone’s piggy banks, and set all congregations up a a permanent hall payment, some body’s evedently are under the mistaken impression that the society was now going to cover any additional cost over and above the utilities. Not!!!, that money so far has all flowed one direction. ..period.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
October 26, 2015 at 10:49 pm
I have just scanned the “Correspondence Guidelines”; this is a real tool to create a “new world society” of “robots” not “other sheep”!!
“We arranged to show a film about our worldwide preaching work, entitled The New World Society in Action, but the priest formed a mob to attack us. We immediately informed the police. When the priest and his mob of parishioners arrived at the theater, they were met by a solid wall of policemen with guns pointed at them. The large audience enjoyed the film immensely” (w14 9/1 p. 11)!
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tiger123 says:
October 27, 2015 at 2:30 am
Enjoyed many of the comments as well as the well written article.
I served at Bethel for a number of years and never heard of the book Correspondence Guidelines. Probably because us lowly Bethel members were given the Dwelling Together in Unity book to study, to make sure we knew the rules and structure of the Borg.
In a corporate environment, rules and handbooks are a valuable tool and a necessary piece of any corporations legal defense in the event an employee or group of employees violates policy. However if Watchtower were to be as it claims, a Theocratic, or God directed organization, clearly the manual has already been written, it is the Bible. The need for interpretation is unnecessary as they are “spirit directed” or “spirit appointed” when administering its counsel and direction.
As proof, Acts 5 gives the account of two people who sold a piece of property and held back from contributing the whole amount and lied about the sale. A committee was held and there is no record of the apostles consulting anything but holy spirit for their decision against Ananias and Sapphira. They were summarily killed by Holy Spirit and God was happy, the end. No books, no correspondence, no embellishing the short list of rules that exist in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
The elders just need the accused in front of them, a prayer for Holy Spirit, which “God generously provides” and an undertaker for the guilty ones he kills. If Holy Spirit does not kill the guilty, then the Watchtower should be obligated not to kill any more trees in the printing of their books, right? Unfortunately not that simple.
The book serves a dual role that is not so obvious. It provides transparency to the governments when needed as to Watchtower policy. This shields the Watchtower from the wildly different judgements that happen from one elder body to the next. If the “judicial” monkey trials are ever called into court and Watchtower is ever thought to be liable for an uneducated group of elders decisions, then they will be able to deflect liability off of themselves and directly on to the unsuspecting elders.
The secrecy of the book allows Watchtower to change its policies as required by governments to align internally with government policy. If it were not secretive, when matters such as policies regarding child molestation were changed as a result of impending government action, the new resultant policies could not be twisted into “Theocratic or God directed” refinement or new light. They could not frame the media and “apostates” and say that they are liars if their previous policies were available for all to see. It would be obvious that God had nothing to do with the changes, rather it was the government that corrected them.
As for Ray Franz’s comments about Gene Smalley and Robert Wallen. I had an epiphany. I worked with these men 20+ years ago in an assignment at Bethel. We were writing software for the writing department to be able to do research from the Bible and Watchtowers. The program was then called getverse. Both men were to say the least, unthankful and Gene Smalley was rude. He called one of the innovations of the most brilliant programmer to ever enter the doors of Bethel, “stupid.” It literally made me sick to my stomach. The dear man who wrote most of the software shrugged it off, he was focused on the day everyone could have use of this valuable research tool, but Smalley’s comment never left me.
@ Gene Smalley, if you are still alive, bow tie and all. I know you were as they called it a “company man”. With good reason they were right. I have one question for you, who is the “stupid” one now? The brother who you said that about turned out to be the one responsible for WT Lib and its release. You selfishly wanted to keep it for yourselves so as to appear smarter than everyone else and as having holy spirit to accomplish the vast research the software is capable of. His initials are S.Q. and you know who I am talking about.
After leaving Bethel in the late 80s S.Q. released a commercially available program that the elders gobbled up with the same enthusiasm as you did. They pirated tens of thousands of copies of your copyrighted publications and shared them with each other digitally. All disfellowshipping offenses because of theft of intellectual property. I had to laugh as I watched you self righteous manipulators get hamstrung by this “stupid” innovator. He forced you to give away your new found advantage that made you appear wiser than everyone else. What was amazing to me is how you issued letters trying to stop it, but it did not work. He won, he got what he always wanted, everyone had the program. He forced your hand and you had to give away Watchtower Library to everyone. Looks to me like Loyd just tipped your dirty little hand again. What will you do this time? Here is a suggestion, do us all a favor and buy a truckload of bow ties, that way if we are ever by Bethel we can play pin the bow tie on the idiots.
Wow, now that felt good!
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Gameisover says:
October 27, 2015 at 2:15 pm
Tiger you are really funny. Keep them coming.
We need continuos cheering up!
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 28, 2015 at 2:27 am
Tiger, I loved your rant!!!
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Meredith J says:
October 28, 2015 at 8:38 pm
So did I.
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dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 2:14 pm
That’s right Tiger123, get the GB out of your head and out of your system for good!
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Robert67 says:
October 27, 2015 at 6:42 am
@elderfaded
I asked one of my previous co’s how it was that Elders from Mexico who came into the U.S illegally are still elders here in the U.S? They are breaking federal laws in this country. I also inquired as to how it was that no one questioned these elders who become American Citizens through an oath TO this country and the defence of it aren’t questioned as to the compromising on their baptismal oath. The very same elders that pounce on the rank and file for the slightest failing. How is it that simply submitting paper work for legal status clears you in the gb’s eyes of the federal offenses you’ve committed, often as a baptized witness. These ursurpers of Christ place as mediator between God and man, nit pick at scripture to their convenience.
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Searcher says:
October 27, 2015 at 9:44 am
Good question! As part of the oath, the candidate for citizenship has to pledge allegiance to the US flag. Makes you go hmmmmm.
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Shane Longmiddle says:
October 27, 2015 at 7:35 am
These fabricated rules are part of what helped me awaken to the machinations of this life draining cult. I wanted to share with you an article that points out the sheer ignorance of these self appointed semi gods. One of the things that allowed me to make it clear to my congregation that i was no longer drinking the bs kool aid was growing my beard in. I hope this article helps all men here that are looking for a way to deviate in some way from the false indoctrination, without violating any Bible principles you might hold up. As for everyone else who is done with all forms of religion, hope this helps to shine a light on the stupidity of the our former captors. I bet Tony Morris had no idea that modern clean shaven looks were pushed by the same “gay” fashion designers that design the tight pants he hates so much. In the beard community a running joke is “What do you call a person without a beard? Women and children and me who want to be women. Here is a bit of beard history.
IS FACIAL HAIR WRONG?
By George Cardenas
There are some churches that teach that wearing a mustache or a beard is wrong, even bordering on sin. But before we label anything as sin let us see what the scriptures say.
OLD TESTAMENT
God gave instructions to Moses about what the Israelites could not do with their beards. (Leviticus 19:27) Then the priests were given the same instructions about what they could not do with their beards (Leviticus 21:5). This means that God expected the Israelites and the priests to have full beards.
The Old Testament makes mention of the beard. Many Israelites wore them, including the High priest Aaron, King David, Mephibosheth, Amasa, Ezra the priest, and Ezekiel the prophet.
Although there are no scriptures to prove it, the ancient Hebrews depicted Adam, Noah, Abraham and the prophets with lush beards
From reading the Old Testament we can see that to the Israelites being shaven was considered a disgrace, a bad thing to happen.
A SIGN OF MOURNING
Shaving the beard was a sign of grief or mourning. (Iasiah 15:2)
A SIGN OF JUDGEMENT
Ezekiel shaved his head and beard to show the judgement of God. (Ezekiel 5:1-12)
God cursed and brought punishment and shame upon people by predicting that their heads and beards would be shaven (Isaiah 7:20, Isaiah 15:2, Jeremiah 48:37) Shaving the beard was a sign of judgement.
BEING SHAVEN WAS A DISGRACE
So disgraceful it was considered to have the beard cut off, that some of the Orientals would prefer death to such a punishment.
When the enemies of David wanted to show their contempt for David they shaved his servants. It was such a shameful insult that David then sent them unto Jericho to stay there until their beards were grown. Clearly it was such a grievous insult that David declared war against those enemies. (2 Samuel 10:4)
We clearly see in this incident here that shaving their beards was a disgrace for the Israelites, it was so shameful that David’s men went into hiding to Jericho.
As we can see beards were seen as something good in Old Testament times. There is no condemnation of it at all; on the contrary there was shame in shaving the beard.
A TYPE OF CHRIST
In the story of Joab and Amasa, the treachery of Joab was made more grievous by his act of grasping Amasa beard. It was a gesture of respect, but Joab used it for treachery. Just like when Judas kissed Jesus when betraying him. (2 Samuel 20:9-13)
THE ORTHODOX JEWS
Although no mention is given about other Old Testament biblical characters wearing beards besides those already mentioned it could safely be said that being good Orthodox Jews they wore beards.
It is well known that throughout history the Orthodox Jews have honored the beard as a badge of manhood. To this day, the orthodox Jews have little respect for clean-shaven men. During periods of mourning, the ancient Jews allowed their beards to go untrimmed, but ordinarily their beards were trimmed regularly.
To an Orthodox Jew having a beard is a sign of allegiance to God. Jesus without a doubt was a devout Jew.
Although the New Testament never mentions it; it is well known from historical records that at the time of Jesus, the Jews usually wore beards, while the pagan Roman and Greeks went clean shaven. It was a clear and distinguishing characteristic of the Jews. Old carvings show clearly that the Jewish people in contrast to the Babylonians had beards.
According to the Jesus Institute. In the first century most Jews were fairly small in stature, light-skinned but tanned from the sun. Most had black or brown hair worn long, and most men wore beards.
According to Rabbi Berel Wein. In the first century, the Greeks and the Romans when men, especially nobility, were clean-shaven. The observant traditional Jewish males wore beards. Beards are seen as a mark of Jewish identity and as a physical link to Jewish tradition, lifestyle and its history.
According to Unger’s Bible Dictionary: Among the Hebrews the beard was considered an ornament and was not shaved, only trimmed.
Jews wore beards. Their hair reached down to the shoulders on men while the women wore hair down to the waist.
The Talmud regards the beard as “the adornment of a man’s face” (BM 84a); a man without a beard was compared to a eunuch (Yev. 80b; Shab. 152a).
Young priests whose beards had not yet grown were not permitted to bless the people (TJ, Suk. 3:14, 54a).
Rabbinical authorities permitted only those who had frequent dealings with the Roman authorities to clip their beard with forceps (kom; BK 83a). Objection to the removal of the beard was on the ground that God gave it to man to distinguish him from woman; to shave it, was therefore an offense against nature (see Abarbanel to Lev. 19:27).
JESUS
Even Jesus our Lord and example had a beard. Being an Orthodox Jew he would keep the Levitical commandments. Jesus kept all the commandments of the law and one of them was to have a beard. Would Jesus go around disregarding a clear commandment from God?
Jesus was our high priest and the high priest was explicitly commanded to have a beard, as such he too like Aaron had a beard.
Moreover Isaiah 50:6 is a clear prophecy of Jesus speaking for himself. Unless you deny that the following is not a prophecy about him, this should settle this argument forever.
Isaiah 50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
New International Version (NIV)
Isaiah 50:6 I gave My back to those who strike Me, And My cheeks to those who pluck out the beard; I did not cover My face from humiliation and spitting.
Matt 26:67; 27:30; Mark 14:65; 15:19; Luke 22:63
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to those who struck me and my cheeks to those who plucked out the beard; I did not hide my face from shame and spitting.
New King James Version (NKJV)
Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to those who pulled out the beard; I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
The Description of Publius Lentullus, one of the earliest descriptions of Jesus says this about him. “His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked;”
The letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar “His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age”
The Emerald of Caesar. A very early painting has Jesus with a beard.
The Acts of the Holy Apostles ascribe to him an olive complexion, a beautiful beard, and flashing eyes.
A letter to the Emperor Theophilus describes Jesus as having a prominent nose, curling hair and a black beard.
Nicephorus Callistus gives a description of Jesus as having a brown beard of moderate length.
BADGE OF MANHOOD
Man was created in the image of God, and having a beard is a part of that image. Men fight against that image every time that they destroy their facial hair.
God made man and women, but only man has the ability to grow a beard. Facial hair clearly distinguishes a man from a woman. In this “unisex” world you can clearly tell from far away a man that has a beard from a woman. God gave facial hair to men as a special gift.
Men have to shave everyday in order to remove a feature that clearly marks them as men, they are removing a sign of their masculinity, and they are purposely trying to erase a characteristic that distinguishes a man from a woman.
MARKER OF ADULTHOOD
Facial hair also serves another function. It sets apart men as men, and boys as boys!
The beard is a sign of maturity. It gives authority to men as having reached a certain age of maturity. It is a distinct marker of adulthood.
Its absence clearly indicates that a boy is not yet mature. He is not ready to assume leadership roles. Its presence indicates that it is time for the young man to start putting away childish things.
It is almost a cliché in Hollywood that the old wise man, in the movie has to have a beard, they recognize that an old person has gone through many experiences that the young haven’t and that experience makes a person wise. What better represents wisdom? An old bearded man.
IT IS NATURAL
The beard is natural; man does not have to do anything to grow a beard. It is an intrinsicall part of his nature.
Many blacks and some curly-haired whites can not shave because they have a medical problem known as pseudofolliculitis barbae (PFB), or “beard bumps,” and it resembles acne. The tiny beard hairs curl back and reenter the skin. Doctors call such hairs “bucket handles.” The simplest cure is to grow a beard.
In nature God shows the beard as belonging to the male, just take a look at the lion, which wears a majestic and full mane, but the female lacks it. If you look around nature you will notice that the male of every species is distinct from the female by different physical characteristics.
HISTORY
For thousands of years a man’s beard was a sign of his royalty, wisdom, courage, and strength. Those with assertive, bushy beards were traditionally respected. Having a beard was considered the normal state of a man in most ancient cultures. Even kings were depicted in ancient carvings with beards. Until a few centuries ago, men swore by their beards
In Nineveh men wore them curled and oiled, and often hardened them with perfumed gum and resin. Persians wove golden threads into them.
In ancient Egypt, as well as Turkey and India, the beard was regarded as a sign of dignity and wisdom.
In ancient Egypt, Egyptian kings wore the longest ones in their society, and high-ranking men and women would don fake beards of gold or silver for special festivals and celebrations. Queen Hatshepsut wore false beards as an equal of kings, and child kings wore fake golden beards.
However later the Egyptians rejected hair as a bad thing. Their pagan priests used to shave their beards and their heads; they even shaved their bodies. They became different from other cultures in this aspect.
THE GREEKS
The Greeks at first were a culture that accepted beards; in fact a certain prominent Greek was defeated for office because his opponent had a more neatly trimmed beard. The Greeks despised clean shaven men, Diogenes mockingly asked the shaven, “What sex are you?” The Spartans punished the cowards by shaving half their hair and half their beard off.
Statues of Zeus the greatest of all the Greek gods show him with a beard, so was Poseidon the God of the sea, and many of their other gods.
The Greek philosophers were distinguished by their long beards as a sort of badge, and hence the term which Persius applies to Socrates “magister barbatus”. The Homeric heroes were bearded men.
“There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one”.
—Greek saying.
In ancient Greek society, the growth of a beard marked the end of the stage when a boy might legitimately be the object of sexual advances from an older man. Many pictures in Attic vases show bearded man courting and giving presents to beardless young boys
It was not unusual for homosexuals to shave their beard in order to continue their sexual lifestyle. A beard was also the distinction between the two major categories of performers, the juniors and the adults, in the Games
The Greek changed with Alexander the great who shaved his beard, and also gave the order that his troops shaved so that the enemy could not grab their beards in battle. At first the ancient Greeks were shocked when Alexander the great shaved of his entire beard, but soon many other Greeks followed Alexander’s examples, and shaving soon became popular among the Greeks.
OTHER HISTORICAL FACTS
In the Middle Ages beards marked a man’s profession. A minister wore a style known as Cathedral, for instance, and a soldier had a beard called a Spade
In 1535, England’s Henry VIII, who himself wore a beard imposed a beard tax.
The practice of wearing a beard was common in Europe until about the 18th century, many kings and nobles used to wear them.
When Peter the Great ordered his nobles to shave, it was shocking to the Russians. Later realizing the Jews would never shave, he imposed a tax on wearing a beard, so he could get some of their money. Yet some non-Jewish Russians were so attached to their beards they preferred to pay the special tax, rather than shave their beards.
Every US president from Grant through Cleveland had facial hair.
Some of the greatest men in history have worn facial hair, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Albert Schweitzer, Albert Einstein and many others.
THE EARLY CHURCH
In the first two centuries of the church it was considered womanly for men to shave. Men who shaved were considered as effeminates, which wanted to attract other men, or adulterers who wanted to attract other women besides their wives.
Clement of Alexandria said “For God wished women to be smooth, and rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, but has adorned man with a beard, and endowed him, as an attribute of manhood. This, then, the mark of the man, the beard, by which he is seen to be a man, is older than Eve, and is the token of the superior nature. In this God deemed it right that he should excel, and dispersed hair over man’s whole body.”
St. Augustine of Hippo argued that: “The beard signifies the courageous; the beard distinguishes the grown men, the earnest, the active, the vigorous. So that when we describe such, we say, he is a bearded man.”
“Men may not destroy the hair of their beards and unnaturally change the form of a man. For the Law says, “You will not deface your beards.” For God the Creator has made this decent for women, but has determined that it is unsuitable for men.” Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E) 7.392. (1)
“The nature of the beard contributes in an incredible degree to distinguish the maturity of bodies, or to distinguish the sex, or to contribute to the beauty of manliness and strength.” Lactantius (c. 304-314, W), 7.288
“The beard must not be plucked. ‘You will not deface the figure of your beard’.” [Lev 19:32] St. Cyprian, 5.553
Although we all know that God is spirit and can not be seen, yet God has always been represented in paintings as a bearded man.
Some of the early Pentecostal pioneers were men that had long beards. It is kind of ironic that men who had long beards founded some churches that now prohibit facial hair. If they were to resurrect and return to their churches they would be barred from even entering. Those were preachers who did not care to look pretty and primp for the pulpit.
THE ORTHODOX CHURCH
In Orthodox Christianity, beards are worn by the priesthood, and at times have been required for all believers. The Orthodox Church priests have always had beards. The Orthodox clergy wears beards because they want to physically resemble Jesus Christ.
The Orthodox Church states. Concerning the sacred rules on the shaving of beards: The sacred rules likewise forbid all Orthodox Christians to shave their beards. For such is not an Orthodox but a Latin and heretical tradition . . . and the rules of the apostles and [church] fathers strictly forbid and denounce this.
THE AMISH, MENNONITE, AND HUTTERITE
In these sects the men wear beards because Jesus had a beard. When Jesus was crucified, they pulled on his whiskers, but since they recognize they are not perfect as Christ was, some do not wear a moustache as Christ did. This is their recognition that they are trying to be like Jesus but do not always live up to this ideal.
Another reason they do not wear moustaches is because, in Europe in the old days, military men used to wear moustaches and since they are pacifists, they do not want to be identified with war in any way.
A long beard is the mark of an adult.
OPPOSITION TO BEARDS
As we can see from the Bible, nature, history and common sense, the modern idea or teaching that men should be clean shaven is a legalism that actually goes against the word of God and the creation of God.
Since the whole Bible never condemns beards but on the contrary teaches that shaving the beard was a sign of shame and judgment. From where does the doctrine that having facial hair is almost a sin, comes from?
The opposition to facial hair has clearly emerged from a cultural setting and some personal dislike of it. Not from any biblical perspective. The New Testament makes no mention at all on this subject. So no position can be taken from this source.
Some have used the sixties as their condemnation of facial hair, because during that time it was used as a symbol of rebellion. However it was always used in conjunction with long hair, which the Bible clearly condemns. That was over 40 years ago and today hardly anyone views mustaches and beards as a sign of rebellion. The hippies have moved on, their symbols have stopped having meaning. The fact that one group of sinners adopted for a short time a creation of God to symbolize their rebellion does not automatically makes it wrong.
Preachers who teach that a man should be clean shaved do not seem to understand that they are just parroting other’s ideas, instead of studying the Bible and realizing that there isn’t a single scripture that teaches that doctrine. On the contrary there are plenty of scripture that support beards.
BAD EXAMPLE
Some have attempted to use Jeremiah 41:5 as their condemnation of beards, but if one reads the verse carefully one realizes that these men had also rent their clothes and cut themselves. Cutting oneself is clearly a pagan practice that is totally against the word of God. Leviticus 21:5-6. It is clear that these men who had shaved their beards and were cutting themselves going totally against the word of God and we are suppose to imitate their bad example?
Furthermore it is not wise to take an isolated verse out of context and build a doctrine around it.
EFFEMENIZATION
One of the strange things of our times is the reversal of roles; men now shave to look fairer skinned like women. It is a sort of effemenization of men. But the Bible clearly says that the effeminate shall not enter into the Kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9
Therefore Christian men should try to not to be or look effeminate.
The beard may seem out of fashion in our modern society, but it is only because we have become a feminine society. Although men still rule society, all the new emphasis on men being sensitive, caring and nurturing shows that men are being pushed into accepting a more feminine role in society. Men are now told to assume roles that traditionally have been relegated to woman. No wonder they are being pushed into looking like women.
NOW and all the other feminists organizations have pushed hard to effeminize men in order to claim equality with them. The manliness of a beard seems somewhat out of place in a society where men and women are equal. When men and women look similar then it is easier to say that they are the same.
TRANSVESTITES HATE BEARDS
Homosexuals and transvestites usually tend to disdain beards for it reminds them of their true nature. The beard that comes every morning constantly reminds them that unlike real women, they have to shave. It reminds them that no matter what they do they will always be men.
Facial hair is a clear feature of men; I have yet to see a transvestite wearing facial hair. Not only is shaving one of the first things that transvestites do, but they go to great lengths to conceal any trace of facial hair. In order to get rid of facial hair they try every trick in the book, some even take hormones and endanger their health just to get rid of their facial hair.
FEMINISTS HATE BEARDS
A small point of sore indignation among the feminist community is that in olden times facial hair was taken as a sign of intelligence and wisdom. Since biologically they are incapable of producing one, feminists have argued that the ‘bearded lady’ in the past, who was regarded as a sideshow freak, was actually the ultimate gesture of girl-power.
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH REJECTED BEARDS.
It is interesting that the Roman Catholic goes contrary to the Old Testament teachings on beard and hair. For they make round cuttings in their head and shave their beard, things which God prohibited the priests of God. The Roman Catholic Church imported those customs from the heathen priests of the roman pagans.
In the 11th Century an Anathema was pronounced by Cardinal Humbert against the Patriarch of Constantinople because the Easter Orthodox Church following the teachings of the Bible wore beards while the Roman clergy shaved.
Up until recently Catholic priests were actually forbidden to wear beards.
THE REAL SOURCE OF THIS OPPOSITION
Could it be that this doctrine opposing facial hair comes from the same place that others do? From Satan himself who wants to erase the God given distinction between a man and a woman. Satan has whispered in the feminist’s ears that men and women are the same, but that pesky beard is a clear reminder that they are not.
The devil wants to erase the distinction between the ages. He wants to blur or erase this distinction between boys and men, in order to create a culture of disrespect for grown men by boys. He wants to have men in perpetual adolescence. He wants to make us believe that we are going to live forever if we paint our hair and shave our beards to look younger.
SHAVING IS DONE FOR VANITY
Some women say that men look more handsome without facial hair, but that is just their opinion. Let us remember that God judges not the outside appearance, but the inside. Maybe in our society clean shaven man are looked as more presentable and clean, but if other men want to look pretty, beautiful and effeminate, we do not have to follow suit.
Men who will not wear a beard because it makes them look older or less attractive are simply giving themselves over to vanity! They want to appear younger in a youth culture. The beard is a sign of maturity, if it gets a few gray hairs, let them be.
A REJECTION OF CREATION
When a man shaves his facial hair he is saying to the creator “I don’t like how you made me!”, “God you made a mistake that I am going to correct with a blade”. If God did not want us to have facial hair then why did he created it?
Shaving is a rejection of the wisdom of God in giving us a beard. We are saying that God did not know what he was doing when he gave the man a beard. God in his infinite wisdom was not smart enough to realize that beards are not needed by men.
SOCIETY STANDARDS
Society has now decreed that it prefers men without beards, but society never sets the standards on what is right or wrong, God does. Let us not be pleasers of men or society, but let us please God.
Some men and woman have even become convinced, all logic aside, that the hairless look is the more manly one.
BUSINESS IMAGE
Some corporations ask their workers to shave, so that they are more presentable and acceptable to other people. They want to present a favorable image to the public, yet some of these same corporations cook the books, cheat their workers, and have many shady dealings. Their clean image is only a front to fool the public.
The fact that some people in the corporate world or in other areas prefer men without facial hair does not make it a sin, for it is God who sets the standards on what is sin.
CONCLUSION
There is no scripture or commandment saying that we must not have a beard in order to be saved and neither is there a scripture that says you must have one in order to be saved, for our salvation is in Christ our lord. Whether a person has a beard or not is a matter that should not be legislated by any church.
Let us beware, lest we do like the Pharisees and substitute the doctrines of God for commandments of men. Yes it was mandatory during the times of the law to wear a beard, but Jesus has fulfilled the law and now we have freedom in Christ. So let us have freedom in this area, everyone according to his own conscience. We are free from the law through Christ.
Although I strongly encourage my Christian brethren to accept this precious gift from God and to wear their beards or moustaches with solemnity, and grace. I do not think is a sin to not wear one, since we are not longer living under the law. So no it is not as sin to shave either.
If you have a job that requires you that you do not have a beard, then at least have a moustache, but if that is not possible in your profession, then you may shave without feeling any sense of guilt.
God looks in the inside not on how pretty you look in the outside. It may be true or it may not be true that men look better without facial hair, but that should not matter. God gave us facial hair, and if you are going to wear one then do so with manly pride and make sure to keep your beard clean, combed, and neatly trimmed. We must still be and look dignified not like a homeless bum in the street.
The Christian men are followers of Christ and as such it behooves us to become the image of Christ. Jesus wore a beard and we can follow his example, without shame or reproach.
Just like the priests of the Old Testament wore beards to symbolize their special calling, we can wear a beard to symbolize our commitment to our holy calling.
We do not condemn nor shun Christian brethren, who teach against beards because we feel that they do it out of ignorance of what the word of God teaches. We just pray that God will open their eyes to this ancient Christian tradition.
1. Beards are biblical
2. Holy men of old wore beards
3. Jesus our Lord wore a beard
4. The early church encouraged beards
5. Beards clearly identifies a person as a man
6. Beards distinguishes a man from a woman
7. Beards distinguishes a man from a boy
8. Beards are a wall against perversion (Homosexuals & transvestites)
9. Beards are a natural gift from God
10. Historically and culturally men have worn beards
DISPENTATIONS
If a Christian is persecuted for wearing a beard, he should stand up for his rights; if his life is in danger then he may shave until persecution has ended. Of course there are times when a dispensation of wearing a beard has to be done. Such times are only to be done for necessary reasons not for vanity or to please an unbelieving person.
Christian men should forbear wearing beards when there are serving in the military or law agency. The military out of necessity requires that men be shaven so they can use gas masks and also to keep hygiene, discipline, moral and a civilized ambient.
Other reasons are hygienic, sanitary or safety reasons. These are reasons where harm could be caused to others by the keeping of this ancient tradition. There are some jobs that require that a person be clean shaved, like being a cook or working in the food service industry. Another field is medicine, where workers are required the utmost of cleanliness for the patient’s sake. If a Christian has a job which requires that he be clean shaven, then as long as he has that job he should shave without feeling any sense of guilt.
A Christian can shave for an emergency, health reasons, or for mourning. If during trimming of the beard a mistake is made try to fix it, if the problem is not fixable, then just shave the beard and let it all grow back again.
Sorry, a bit long. Hope it helps anyone who is being forced into a beard closet by these simpletons in Brooklyn or in any other place.
Cheers to all and kudos on that fine beard Mr.Evans
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Pow says:
October 29, 2015 at 1:47 pm
I believe the reason we prohibit beards, (keep in mind c.t.Russell, Van Amberg and others had them.) Was the mistaken view that beards contributed to the spread of the spainish influenza. But, somehow, it in time became a law, like wearing denim, ties, suits, no pants suit for women, in another word once again a cautious suggestion morphs into bible-trumping modern day law.
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Reader says:
October 29, 2015 at 5:16 pm
Very well written, defended every bristle.
Removed from public talk list because of mine, even though by that time the beards were back in illustrations -pre 95.
Good for year round outdoor workers.
11. All Bible penmen [with only one possible eception] were bearded.
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ruthlee says:
October 27, 2015 at 7:54 am
“OH horrible”.To quote Hamlet rl
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 27, 2015 at 3:27 pm
@Holy Cannoli, I think one of the reasons why marriages in the Watchtower don’t work well is because the men running the Watchtower are living in the dark ages when it comes to how women are to be treated. You can see that when you read through the correspondence guidelines. The men are taught that they are the “head of the house” and they take that job really seriously.
There shouldn’t be anything wrong with that concept but a lot of them think they have to “rule” over their households with an iron fist, even though the Society says they aren’t to do that but it’s a double-edged sword.
The men are responsible for what their wives and children wear, what they say and what to do. Women are treated as children under the “head” of the house instead of an equal partner. Men feel like they have to treat their wives that way or they think they will be looked down on by the other men in the congregation. It’s an unwritten rule.
Women are taught to dumb down themselves as per what the Governing Body members say in their talks. Women are never to look smarter than their husbands and that can cause an awful lot of friction when the man makes stupid mistakes and she is not allowed to say thing to make him look stupid or weak.
The women have to pretend to like being under “subjection” of their husbands, even if they hate it. The whole family will look bad if the kids and the wives don’t pretend like everything that comes out of the husband’s mouth is gold. That works for really stupid women, but for women who don’t like faking it, they will resent being in a marriage like that eventually.
It is so fake and at some point, the family can’t take it anymore because they think if they have to live the rest of their lives like that, it just isn’t worth it.
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dee says:
October 27, 2015 at 6:51 pm
@Caroline
“……….she is not allowed to say things to make him look stupid or weak”.
I think that that is just the nature/culture of the JW religion. Sisters are not allowed to correct brothers. It’s just not allowed.
I recall that when I was new to the religion, a brother made a comment during the Q&A portion of the service meeting. Realizing that his comment was wrong, I corrected his error in my subsequent comment.
I suddenly started to feel an air of uneasiness around me from the persons sitting around me. After the meeting, I was told that a sister does not have the right to correct a brother, this despite the fact that I wasn’t baptized at the time so I wasn’t even a sister, and of course all of this was unknown to me given my newness to the religion.
On another occasion, during a book study, I expanded on a point made by a brother in order to clarify his statement for the benefit of others so that the point would be understood. I was then told after the meeting that I was teaching the congregation and sisters aren’t allowed to do that (I was baptized at that time).
On a related matter – when conducting a bible study in the presence of a brother while out in field service, I was told that I had to wear a head covering to show my subjection and recognition of God’s ordination of man as head in spiritual matters and that a woman does not have authority over a man in spiritual matters in keeping with 1 Cor.11: 3-16; this despite the fact that I was not married to the brother who accompanied me on the bible study.
The culture of the religion is to keep the woman in her place.
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Chris says:
October 27, 2015 at 3:31 pm
I heard brothers in the service department who dealt with judicial cases and correspondence say it was the worst assignment in Bethel. I can understand why. It must be soul-destroying to regurgitate this pharasaic, one-size-fits, fortune cookie wisdom while people on the receiving end sob for some reasonableness. It can’t be life-affirming to act as a conduit for cult mind control, and by what those people have admitted, it really isn’t.
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Wip it says:
October 27, 2015 at 9:12 pm
Yep got a copy, the rules behind the rules behind the rules behind the rules, interesting reference on beards, i will check them later
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Robert67 says:
October 29, 2015 at 9:04 am
As far as the general rank and file goes, this is all the Insight to Scripture book states on the subject of beards.
BEARD
The hair growing on a man’s chin and cheeks, sometimes including that growing on the upper lip. In the Hebrew Scriptures, za·qanʹ is the word for “beard,” while sa·phamʹ, pertaining to the lip, is variously rendered by translators as “beard,” “mustache,” and “upper lip.” In a few instances the word za·qanʹ refers not to the beard but to the “chin.”—Le 13:29, 30; 14:9.
Among many ancient peoples of the East, including the Israelites, a beard was cherished as an evidence of manly dignity. God’s law to Israel prohibited the cutting off of the “sidelocks,” the hair between the ear and the eye, and the extremity of the beard. (Le 19:27; 21:5) This was doubtless because among some pagans it was a religious practice.
During extreme grief, shame, or humiliation, a man might pluck hairs from his beard, or he might leave the beard or the mustache untended. (Ezr 9:3) It may have been the untended beard of Mephibosheth, son of Jonathan, that indicated to David that Mephibosheth was perhaps telling the truth when he said that his servant Ziba had slandered him, and that Mephibosheth was actually mourning while David was a refugee from Absalom, contrary to what Ziba had reported. (2Sa 16:3; 19:24-30) The removing of the beard illustrated calamity or great mourning because of calamity.—Isa 7:20; 15:2; Jer 48:37; Eze 5:1.
After the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., men from Shechem, Shiloh, and Samaria expressed their distress by shaving their beards, ripping their garments apart, and cutting themselves. Even though they were bringing offerings to the house of Jehovah, they were bloodless offerings, apparently to be offered at the place where the temple had been. (Jer 41:5) That the practices of these men were not fully in harmony with the law of God is shown by the fact that they made cuts upon themselves, a practice sternly prohibited by the Law.—Le 19:28; 21:5.
The importance of the beard and its being well groomed played a part in the attitude of Achish the king of Gath toward David when the latter disguised his sanity by letting his saliva run down upon his beard. This served to help convince King Achish that David was insane. (1Sa 21:13) Later, when Hanun the king of Ammon grossly insulted David’s ambassadors by cutting off half their beards, David sympathetically told his men to stay in Jericho until their beards grew abundantly again. The Ammonites knew that it was a signal insult to David and that they had become foul-smelling in his eyes over the incident, and so they prepared for war.—2Sa 10:4-6; 1Ch 19:1-6.
It was customary for men to wear beards, even before the Law covenant was made. While the Hebrews did not make monuments with figures of themselves, many monuments and inscriptions have been found in Egypt, Mesopotamia, and other Middle Eastern lands, in which the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Canaanites are pictured with beards. Even some representations dated as far back as the third millennium B.C.E. show beards of varying styles. Among the above-named peoples, eunuchs were mainly the ones depicted beardless. The making of eunuchs was not a practice in Israel, however, because the Law excluded eunuchs from the congregation of Israel.—De 23:1.
Since most Semites are pictured as wearing beards, even prior to the time of the Law, it would logically follow that the faithful men of the line of Shem, who continued to speak the language of Eden and who doubtless followed more closely the original customs from the time of their forefather Shem, possessed beards. Consequently, there is good reason to believe that Noah, Enoch, Seth, and Adam likewise were bearded men.
Herodotus (II, 36) says the Egyptians shaved the hair both of the face and of the head. For the men it was a sign of mourning or of slovenliness to let the hair and beard grow. For this reason Joseph, when taken out of prison, shaved before being brought into the presence of Pharaoh. (Ge 41:14) However, false beards as well as wigs were worn by the Egyptians.
Did Jesus, when on earth, wear a beard? Certainly it was a custom strictly held by the Jews. Jesus, born a Jew, “came to be under law” and he fulfilled the Law. (Ga 4:4; Mt 5:17) Like all other Jews, Jesus was dedicated to Jehovah God from his birth, by reason of the Law covenant, and was under obligation to keep the whole Law, including the prohibition on shaving the extremity of the beard. Also, at the time that Jesus was on earth, the Roman custom was beardlessness. Therefore, if Jesus had been beardless, he would have been challenged as being either a eunuch or a Roman. Significantly, a prophecy concerning Jesus’ suffering states: “My back I gave to the strikers, and my cheeks to those plucking off the hair.”—Isa 50:6.
In not Roman, am I a Eunoch?
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Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 10:06 pm
To an old admirer,
It’s so true we have to think a bit before we comment. I work at a salt production plant. At my job my line driver (a female forklift driver) said to a manager “someone needs to run that man ( a coworker) over with a forklift.” The Manager walked her out the door and fired her for saying it. It’s been over a year and she’s still fired. What she said would have been funny if she hadn’t gotten fired. Another time a co worker said in Spanish my butt reminded him of children’s pompers. I speak english so I didn’t know what he had said. The boss heard what he said and pulled him into her office. I didn’t know what was going on. As my coworker passed me he said, “I’m sorry Kathy” as he walked by and I didn’t know why. Our supervisor pulled him into her office fussed at him and gave him a warning, she understood spanish. My coworker felt terrible. I told him don’t worry, it’s all gonna be good. We didn’t know the boss speaks spanish. We know now. Words can get you fired or thrown off a website. Everyone I know uses more self control than they speak than they used to before because we live in a sensitive world. That really is a good point about the cross. It makes sense that’s what the stake was used for. I’m glad I found this website.
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Catalina says:
October 27, 2015 at 10:14 pm
I need to add he was talking about children’s pompers that has ruffles and look like they are blown up with air. (children’s underwear) It would have been funny if he hadn’t gotten into trouble.
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An Old Admirer says:
October 28, 2015 at 1:03 am
@Catalina. Thank you for your comment. I really like your illustration . You show good insight into situations . Also it was sweet of you to commend me on the point about the ‘Cross’ .
Yes you are right that this website helps a lot of people. There are many here who have been genuinely damaged by the deep emotional hurt & pain inflicted by the Watchtower organisation .
So yes this site is good that they can converse & comfort one another . One comment I read I believe from Tara where she felt ‘so lonely’ which I think many feel when ostracised from family & friends which I must admit is very cruel .
I see you are good friends with Meredith & others here which is helpful to each of you .
Another person who does care a lot about you all is a decent kind person who has a good heart is JB Reezner. I really know this website means a lot to him & the people on it . Look after him .
Anyway take care Catalina .
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Meredith J says:
October 28, 2015 at 8:51 pm
An Old Admirer, I just wanted to say how important your point was about thinking before we comment too. I need to take a leaf out of your book. It is so wise to do this, especially when we cannot delete what we have already written. There are a few things on here, which I do have some regret over.
Before I became a Witness, I remembered a passage from someone called Omar Kayyam. It kind of goes like this “The moving finger writes and having writ moves on. And not all thy tears, nor all thy wit can cancel even a word of it or to lure it back to cancel half a line.” I need to do that too. Thanks for the reminder.
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An Old Admirer says:
October 29, 2015 at 12:10 am
@Meredith J . You & Catalina are 2 very sweet kind ladies. As also many on this site are . But the the person I was thinking of was a certain PB by looking at his or hers previous comments ,who is no longer with us ,& I believe he has many regrets in his life where he or she could have taken back what was said.
I was in no way referring to you as you have been a really outstandingly kind, understanding person which I can learn from .
All the best.
An Old Admirer
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Meredith J says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:23 pm
Yes, I think of PB too. He might come back you never know. Hopefully, things will go better for him. He needs to break free though even if it hurts.
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Baccolo says:
October 28, 2015 at 3:56 am
Not so off-topic….
In Australia will the WBTS become an issue of electoral campaigning?
see: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-27/labor-pledges-payments-for-sex-abuse-survivors/6886864
What about the politically illiterate publishers while knockin’ the doors?
What about the australian voters/taxpayers?
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Kaput says:
October 28, 2015 at 9:58 am
Article states:
“On top of that, it calls on the federal and state governments to set aside $613 million for “funder of last resort” funding, which would be required when responsible institutions no longer exist or have no assets.”
To quote Jimi Hendrix:
“All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl”
Ride on riders!
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Kaput says:
October 28, 2015 at 10:02 am
Errata: to quote Bob Dylan, (performed by Jimi Hendrix)
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Tara says:
October 28, 2015 at 8:07 am
BY ORDER OF THE HIGH INQUISITOR OF BETHEL
Any minion found in possession of
Guidelines for Correspondence. Will be expelled.
The above is in accordance with
Watchtower Decree One hundred, forty four thousand.
Signed T.M. III
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peely says:
October 28, 2015 at 9:34 am
Ray Franz – “…any person who occupies the position of congregational elder, traveling overseer or Branch committee member knows that the manual’s contents form no mere guide BUT HAVE THE FORCE OF LAW.”
“These policies are, in fact, treated with the same respect as if they were direct statements from Scripture, divine law”
“Listen, you heavens, and I will speak; hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
Let my teaching fall like rain and my words descend like dew, like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.” Deut 32:1,2
“ he said to them, ‘Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law. They are not just idle words for you – THEY ARE YOUR LIFE. By them you will live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess.’ Deut 32:46,47
“Stay away from those Pharisees! They are like blind people leading other blind people, and all of them will fall into a ditch.” Matt 15:14
“You must obey God’s commands better than the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law obey them. If you don’t, I promise you that you will never get into the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:20
You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel. Matt 23:24
“And so, each of us must give an account to God for what we do.” Rom 14:12
“Don’t fall into the trap of being a coward— trust the Lord, and you will be safe.” Prov 29:25
“We won’t dare compare ourselves with those who think so much of themselves. But they are foolish to compare themselves with themselves.” 2 Cor 10:12
“Jesus said to him, ‘Away from me, Satan! For it is written: “Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.” Matt 4:10
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Pow says:
October 28, 2015 at 11:13 am
Bible says….you must not cut your side locks short,…. (no longer applicable ). In fact cut those side burns off along with that beard or else, no baptism for you, and if your not baptised by the g.t. as a jdub then everlasting cutting off, So in summery if you follow Bible’s advice….you die.
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Mrlett says:
October 28, 2015 at 11:49 am
I’m sorry friend Peely, but our organization only recognizes those antiquated scriptures in passing. The Watchtower Bible and Tract society has improved on Gods lacking word the Bible by adding and tweaking any scripture that goes against the society. We regret that Mr.Evans revealed our latest addition, the sixty seventh book of the Bible before we released it ourselves.
Since the cat is out of the bag
We proudly present to you new light in the form of book sixty seven of our silver sword edition of the Bible, the book of OPINIONS (applause) otherwise known as corresponding guidelines. (more applause) we hope that with this book of Opinions many will come to kneel before the Governing body, their future kings over the Earth. (standing ovation) (kool aid cups passed down each row)
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dee says:
October 29, 2015 at 4:26 pm
The writing of the 67th book of the Bible is giving earth’s future kings a.k.a. the GB some practice. They certainly will not be rookies when it comes to the writing of those “new scrolls” (Rev 20:12) which will be opened in the new system.
It will be raining kool aid like crazy from the heavens then I’m sure. LOL!
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dee says:
October 28, 2015 at 1:59 pm
@Robert67
Another book for your booklist:
-Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah’s Witnesses-
Don’t know if you have read this one as yet.
Cheers.
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Robert67 says:
October 29, 2015 at 8:21 am
I ordered it today, thank you. I found this and watched it the whole way through. If any witnesses on the fence want to know if the elders, building committees and “professionals” used by the WT lie to get what they want, well your in for a treat. You’ll be hearing a lot more about this documentary in months to come.
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Tara says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:01 pm
Very interesting video… Do they mean 2015 not 2016 as they keep mentioning?
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Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 29, 2015 at 3:07 am
On page 98 under sexual conduct, it calls oral sex “perverted”. That really bothers me that they are saying that because the wife will probably never have an orgasm since it is almost impossible for a woman to have one through regular intercourse.
So, according to those dirty old men in Brooklyn, the woman is there just to please her husband and that’s all she’s good for.
They have no business deciding that for a couple. That is going beyond what the scriptures say and they don’t care.
They are simply clueless.
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SIRIUS says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:07 am
Kinda reminds me of another so-called faith. There, females are both deficient in intelligence(witnesses needed to establish truth) and deficient in religion(unclean because of the monthly menstruation cycle, can not pray).
Since practicing JW Elders are so concerned of their public image by their flock do they witness what does on in bedrooms too?
IMHO
dogstar
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Robert67 says:
October 29, 2015 at 9:15 am
Here in Puerto Rico we have a new Circuit overseer we will just refer to his initials RP who treats his much, much younger wife as if she were a child. All he has to do is give her that evil look and you can see genuine fear in this poor woman. While we’re on the subject, why doesn’t anyone blink an eye at all of these mid life pedo marriages. How can you marry someone who wasn’t alive when you were already an adult and what these pedo protectors worry about is dress and biblically approved, even demanded facial hair.
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Excelsior! says:
October 29, 2015 at 11:33 am
Robert67,
If both marriage mates are of legal age, then it is up to them what they do.
However, I agree with your point about the particular prevalence of older men marrying women who could be their daughters in the WTBTS.
I think it is part and parcel of their contempt for women. They are simply either a status symbol, a breeding cow, a scullion or a necessary accessory for a “spiritual man”.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Tara says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:09 pm
Because there are very few men the same age as most women. I am in my 40’s and have been alone since my ex left me. The only men available in this area are all over 60 who have, sadly, lost their wives. Sorry but I don’t want to marry a man who cannot keep up with me. That’s a personal thing. Now from what we have seen/read on here any guy who is over 23 and not an MS is bad news for single sisters…. So, if I want to marry, I have been told to go and scout out other congregations and basically act like a cougar. Nope not cheapening myself for one and for another… how many single sisters can afford to travel miles and miles to look for a guy. As it is there is a really nce, young mechanic in the area who is interested lol and no he’s not a witness 😉
Idontknowhatodo says:
October 29, 2015 at 5:21 pm
Like Geoffrey Jackson……
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MimiLove says:
October 29, 2015 at 7:25 am
you need to watch the youtube video of Sam Herd….talk about irritating! He basically says the purpose of a woman is to please her man.
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Excelsior! says:
October 29, 2015 at 11:36 am
Great point, Caroline.
I think the female orgasm makes these clueless, sexist idiots’ brains spin! They never encourage women or men to explore their sexuality. Sex is for the man’s pleasure and for breeding.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Excelsior! says:
October 29, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Folks,
An Old Admirer is none other than that master of deception PB!!!
Notice the constant flattery of Meredith J and others, exactly the same modus operandi as PB.
He was also Aphrodite on the previous article to this one!
This goes out to PB, Aphrodite and An Old Admirer
You are not as clever as you seem to think you are. I see right through you. I always have.
Unfortunately, I have met many people like you in my life. I am not impressed with your manipulative and unscrupulous abuse of people on this site. Meredith J and others deserve to be treated with honesty, not flattered by a lying, self serving fantasist.
Do yourself a favour. Stop lying to people by assuming all these aliases. If you want to post here, then choose one name and one email address and stand by your comments.
And when you insult someone, by, say, calling them a fathead etc etc etc, apologise unreservedly and immediately.
I hope that you will stop this course of action and apologise to us all, but especially to Meredith J and Catalina, for deceiving them yet again with a false name and your nauseating flattery.
Folks, please look out for this series of characters. He/she is a dangerous and untrustworthy individual.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Catalina says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:14 pm
Meredith, Caroline, Holy Connoli, My JW landlord’s husband is an elder and offered to study the bible with my husband today after they had a conversation about Joseph in the bible. Thank god my husband said no. Thank god. But I feel nervous. We live in a senior citizen apartment complex and my husband visits them. I’ve never outwardly turned my back on the truth before and I want to do it peacefully. I don’t want to alienate my landlord. I’m not sure how to handle this. Even though I read the guidelines document three times I’m still not sure what action can be taken against me. My landlord knows I was seeing my husband before I married him. I can’t tell how much trouble I’m in according to the guidelines document. What can I expect? I’m nervous. That elder rushed up to me yesterday acting very concerned, he asked me how I’m doing. I answered, fine, I enjoy being a newlywed, and like being left alone. He asked me if he and another elder can come by and visit me for encouragement. I said no I dont want a visit. I had to keep saying no. He pressed it. What can I expect. I cant tell from the guidelines document.
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Tara says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Catalina, my friend married out of the ‘truth’ and the gave a marking talk. No names mentioned but it was obvious it was her. She wasn’t shunned but was def. made to feel uncomfortable. They would talk to her at the hall but she was not spoken to outside of it nor was she invited to any ‘get togethers’. She may as well have been shunned for the way she was/is treated. Be prepared for a marking talk but I don’t think you would be df’d.
Not much comfort I know. You have us if that counts :)
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Tara says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:53 pm
PS… I get to meet the elders this week too. For a little chat.
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Excelsior! says:
October 30, 2015 at 9:46 am
Tara,
Don’t forget to follow Excelsior’s patented Elder defender!
Praise “Jehovah God’s spirit directed Organisation”
Flatter the Elders, and tell them how spiritual and caring they are.
Do not mention any negative truths about the WTBTS.
Make up an excuse for your absence that does not require too many details.
If you follow this patented course, you should be just fine!
You owe these elders nothing. Use your insider knowledge to your advantage.
All the best of luck for your meeting!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Tara says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:33 pm
I will! I will flash the baby blues and let them see how sweet and innocent I am…… cough cough
Catalina says:
October 29, 2015 at 9:26 pm
Tara, That info helps me a lot. I was so concerned I hung around online waiting for an answer. I’m being a coward. I feel stupid. I want to move. My landlord is impressed with my husband and offers him a bible study because he really is such a nice man. I’m letting it get under my skin. Thank you Tara your answer helps a lot. Thanks
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EverydayExplorer says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:38 am
Catalina and Tara, perhaps you can just keep putting these over-persistent (bullying and nosey) elders off. As Wip it says below, you can use physiological excuses every now and then. Plus there are all sorts of daily life commitments that can be cited. If you feel you’d rather get their officious talk over with (and remember these elders have no authority over you, either legally or spiritually), then maybe make the time of the ‘talk’ (undue influence session) as helpful to you as possible. For example, if either of you are morning people, have that ‘talk’ extremely early.
I really feel for you both — no-one deserves to be bullied like this; you have the right to be treated with respect; you are the best judge of yourselves and your unique characters and spirituality. Sending you both lots and lots of positive vibes and tons of respect.
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Tara says:
October 30, 2015 at 7:40 am
Thanks EE. I’ve been putting this off for ages. So just biting the bullet now. I’ve a good mind to record it somehow, as they are coming to my place. It is intimidating having them call you up at work or trap you in a corner of the KH. with their greasy smiles. It’s so hard though because my ex daughter in law will try to stop my connection with my grandchild if I get df’d plus my daughter has just been reinstated so she can fade out – she wanted to be able to talk to her friends again…. no other reason. I’ll let you all know how it goes. Knowing me I will give them a mouth full of JWSurvey truth because I have trouble lying. Lol I even put a false report in for service this last month. I haven’t been out but I talk to you lot on here so I gave them an hour….
Wip it says:
October 29, 2015 at 6:49 pm
Catalina, just tell them you have a medical condition, you can make one up, i don’t want to say which one to use as i don’t want to offend, i know what i would use though,
Reply
Catalina says:
October 29, 2015 at 9:54 pm
Wip it, I never understood why worldly people hated jws so much when we came to their doors. I didn’t understand how manipulative we were or how dumb we sounded. I’m done. For me, manipulation by JWs brings on an unhappy life. That guidelines Document is all about manipulation and at it’s worst. It helps me a lot to see it in black and white because if it isn’t in writing than it’s just not so. And for crying out loud, talk about playing mind games. That’s all they do. The guidelines document proves that. I’m glad to be free. Even though I miss my family I can never go back.
Reply
rob says:
October 30, 2015 at 8:16 am
When I faded and was asked to meet with the elders for encouragement (which in witness terms means interrogation as to why I was no longer attending the meetings and going in service and also interrogation as to whether I still believed in the witness religion), I simply answered that this was not a good time for me and that I would get back to them when it was convenient for me. It has been several years and I never did get back to them.
If someone were to ask me now if I wanted to meet for spiritual encouragement my reply would be “my spirituality is very personal to me and I don’t discuss it with anyone.”
Reply
eyes opened says:
October 30, 2015 at 9:50 am
Hi Catalina,
If you want to play by the elders rules tell them you will not meet with them without your husband’s permission and presence as he is your”head”. Also you might ask them what it is they want to discuss. If they say to encourage you ask about what, you could tell them you’re ” very happy but thank you for your concern”. A former elder told me you’re under no obligation to meet with them. I hope this helps at least a little. Regards
Reply
Catalina says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:36 pm
That’s Excellent.
Reply
Kat says:
October 30, 2015 at 9:55 am
Reply
Kat says:
October 30, 2015 at 9:55 am
Reply
eyes opened says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:10 am
Hi Tara,
I suppose theocratic warfare can work both ways, haha. You’re under no obligation to answer any questions in a way that could cause you grief. I understand why you feel you should have the meeting. You might tell them you’re working hard at personal study and building yourself up, you’re well on your way and thank you for your concern. Just a thought. Remember playing their game has little to no effect on your relationship with God. These are manmade rules and games. Although I realize the profound impact they can have on our lives. Just give them enough to make them content and feel like they’ve done their job. Regards
Reply
Tara says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:58 pm
Thank you for that EO….. Oh gawd I can see me being hung drawn and quartered by the end of it. I’ll blame it on the medication the Dr gave me for being in a car accident that I wasn’t blood guilty for. (I got shafted – I mean rear ended) Maybe I should go put away my Harry Potter books….. they might take away my Kingdom Ministry…. thats ok they have some new fangled thing coming out soon. Well, watch this space… thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement…. Hugs.
Reply
Tara says:
October 31, 2015 at 2:59 pm
Well, well, well, so the brothers were very nice and concerned and ‘encouraging’….. actually they were but for their final trick they pulled the rabbit out of the hat and asked me about a wedding attendance. I admitted to it and they wanted to know how I justified it… I told them my conscience was clear before Jehovah and that is all that mattered. They were kind of taken aback at my bluntness and left pretty soon after. I have a feeling I may get the request of my presence at another ‘get together’ or get marked. Who gives. Not me.
Reply
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← Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
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Posted on October 30, 2015
speak-out2Oftentimes, when speaking to friends and acquaintances I am asked, “Why? Why do you care what the Witnesses do? Why do you bother writing articles or helping the ex-JW movement? Why not just move on and forget it all?”
I’m sure some of you reading this have similar questions.
To the casual observer, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are at best a group of nice people, and at worst a bunch of interrupting doorknockers with a doomsday message. The average person would not classify Watchtower as harmful. However, that’s simply not the case. And this is why I speak out.
I speak out because families are being torn apart by Watchtower’s cruel and unjust shunning policy
A person who decides to leave the organization must do so knowing they will lose friends and even blood relatives due to the Watchtower policy on avoiding those who reject their teachings. I personally have a sister I haven’t seen in thirteen years. We grew up inseparably, and now we are strangers. She has never met my daughter, and unless she too decides to leave, I will never meet her children.
My parents are lost to Watchtower’s demands, and I honestly have no hope of recovering that relationship. I am being shunned. It’s not fair and it hurts. So, I speak out.
I speak out because women and children are being held as victims by the misogynistic teachings at the Kingdom Hall
Pedophilia and domestic violence are swept under the rug at an alarming rate all across the world. The men in charge would rather keep the Watchtower brand name clean than admit a problem with abuse, and change policies that hurt vulnerable ones.
Unless there are two witnesses to the act, a child who is molested has no hope of recourse if the accused abuser denies his or her claim.
A woman who is beaten by her husband cannot leave him and remain in good standing within the organization. The only counsel given is for her to “be a better wife.”
I was that wife. I know how it feels. So, I speak out.
I speak out because countless innocent people have lost their lives because of a skewed interpretation of a biblical verse on eating blood
People are literally dying by refusing blood transfusions.
The lives of countless men, women, children, and even babies are seen as less important than following the edicts of the governing body. I hate seeing this senseless loss of life. It hurts me to see these victims of foolishness be lost. So, I speak out.
I speak out because children and young people, many of whom know no other way of life, are being denied access to a quality education
Homeschooling among Witnesses is encouraged—essentially cutting children off from the outside world. They are told that college and university learning is sinful, that reading anything outside of the information Watchtower provides is a path to destruction, that making an informed decision by looking at all sources on a topic could make you guilty of a crime known as apostasy.
I was the child who was too afraid to ask questions. As an adult, I can see how many opportunities I’ve missed in life by not pursuing education. I struggle now trying to complete a degree and raise a child at the same time. So, I speak out.
I speak out for those still inside who are suffering.
I speak out for those who have been lost or who have lost ones to these policies.
I speak out for those too weak to share their stories.
I speak out to show support to others who are trying to help.
I speak out to inform the public and hopefully keep more people from being hurt.
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← Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
97 Responses to The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
Newer Comments →
Thad says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:47 am
Keep speakig out!! :)
Reply
Oubliette says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:54 am
Keep speaking out!
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BG says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:54 am
I had an abusive jehovah’s witness husband. It was horrible. He tried to control me and didn’t like me speaking to the elders about what was going on. And then there were the elders. I hate to say it, but they weren’t of any help with what was going on with him. I was told to be submissive. I know how hard it can be.
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Mama Joy says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:56 am
Same thing with me and my mom.
She was told to be more submissive, I was told to be more obedient.
They said that even after seeing horrific looking black and blue marks on us.
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Tonya says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:58 am
THANK YOU for speaking out Jeni!
You know the pain–it never goes away. It’s hard to heal. I appreciate your conviction to shout from the roof tops–SHUNNING IS NOT FAIR!!!! STOP!
You rock!
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Scrubmaster says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:00 am
Jeni – I am very sorry you were in an abusive marriage. But it is not true a woman will be shunned if they leave a marriage or even get divorce. The parties are not free to remarry unless the other party is guilty of adultery. I have seem women leave and even divorce their husband, and I am not referring to adultery in these cases either, in the org and continue to be very much a part of the congregation.
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Jeni says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:42 pm
I’m not sure how each body of elders decides, but I speak from experience in my own case on this matter. I think if I would have shown up to my JC and acted repentant I might have been spared disfellowshipping, but I don’t believe for a second that I would have been considered in good standing.
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LadyLuck says:
October 30, 2015 at 1:37 pm
I had an acquaintance leave her abusive JW husband and she was not able to remarry and remain in good standing. She was in her 20’s. How is that fair? That she has to remain single in order to stay in good standing in the religion because her husband was an abusive a-hole. She has to wait around and hope that he gets into another relationship so that she is free to move on with her life. That is disgusting.
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Scrubmaster says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:27 pm
You said remarry and remain in good standing we already know the org stance on that one. My Mother left my father when we were younger and she stayed in good standing. I in turn was left and the woman who left me cheated on me a couple of years prior and because I “forgave” I was not able to get remarried when she left just a couple of years later(She never even got DF or a Judicial hearing for cheating). After she left me she was still going to the meetings and in very good standing. Me being the “brother” elders had to see if I could be used, pray, hold mic, give school parts and etc even though she left me.
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Andrew says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:48 pm
I hate is when people say things like “you can get a divorce in the org”. They also say “you can go to university” well how about you try getting a divorce or going to school and see how things go for you. If a non JW asks you if they have to shun your own family you will say no and justify saying it to yourself by thinking ‘maybe they won’t be disfelowshipped/disassociated so I could talk to them’. As a kid I was asked about not celebrating birthdays and I would say “it doesn’t matter because I get presents all year” which was a complete lie as I received a present about once very 5 years. I was just defending the organization. Reminds me of the governing body member when asked about when people want to leave he said “people can leave whenever they want and it is just a conscious matter if you will shun them”. No, everyone knows that if you want to leave you will be blackmailed into staying by treat of ripping you away from all your family and friends you have.
Reply
Ren says:
October 31, 2015 at 7:50 am
My brother basically told me the same thing, @Andrew. I believe his exact words were, “there’s no chains on the doors.” But that isn’t entirely true is it. To say that there is nothing keeping someone from leaving is a gross lack of understanding the psychological “chains” that prevent people from even seeing a way out, or more importantly, seeing the need to get out. These chains might as well be real metal barriers. But thanks to this website and many others, there is help to break out.
Reply
agatha says:
October 31, 2015 at 4:22 am
SCRUBMASTER
aun te queda mucho por recorrer
el respeto y dejar corra el tiempo te dara la salida para q un dia veas claro
Reply
Garrett says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:01 am
Traveling through Morroco and Mauritania one sees many mine fields.
Most are marked. In other times when crossing the Sahara it is regarded as simple
Human carding that has an unwritten social law in place. Namely, if you come across a landline in any country you should pile up stones around it as a marker and warning to others so they don’t accidentally step or drive onto it.
To simply “move on with your life and forget about it” is the ultimate act of selfishness.
To simply leave the witnesses and not speak out and warn others that the religion is a “Dead End” would be the same.
Reply
Garrett says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:04 am
Spell check kills me. I’ll have to remember to read my postings first.
If someone can correct it, please do.
Reply
Roman Castañeda says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:05 pm
That’s a really good way to put it. Among the Spanish American culture, church means a lot. Even though I tell my friends and coworkers about the dangers lurking inside the organization, they still want to join because they don’t believe there’s any other religious system that comes close to living right by the Bible. They would rather turn a blind eye to the pedophilia charges, and the shunning practices, as long as they are able to be part of an organization. It doesn’t makes sense whatsoever.
I have former Bible students who have become some very dear friends. I taught them well according to the watchtower, and with their affiliations with some members from the congregations, they find it ill-contrived to go against the organization because that is what I emphasized during our lessons. Because of this, they too fear in saying anything bad about the organization. They were profoundly disturbed with what I shared with them, yet the fear keeps them there.
Reply
Tom Durbridge says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:10 am
Excellent article. It’s for these very reasons that avoidjw.org exists.
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The Circus Overseer says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:15 am
Thank you dear Jeni. I concur.
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dee says:
October 30, 2015 at 3:29 pm
“Circus Overseer” that’s so funny but so true! LOL!
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Becky H says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:26 am
I absolutely loved the article and admire Jeni for writing it. I wasn’t allowed to go to college because Armageddon was coming in 1975. Here it is 2015, so it looks like my peers and I had plenty of time to get an education. I watched my classmates go off to college and was left behind, losing track of them. It broke my heart and I can never get those years back, nor can I get back my grandma, who died over the blood issue. Sure, we can wake up to the truth about the truth, but we can never be kids again, living a normal, precious childhood, as it should be. That was robbed from us. Thank you for trying to save other Witness kids from what so many of us went through! The lot of JW wives is substandard too, though I know of some who enjoy a lot of “leeway” to shop for nice meeting clothes or get nice hair styles, it’s all dependent on how indulgent their husband is, and what he permits his wife to do. Many have strict husbands and there’s little joy in their lives. It amazes me that a woman in 2015 would go along with this crap, but I guess they still hook in a few. It’s vital to get the word out about the plight of sisters too.
Thanks again for an excellent post.
Reply
Peggy says:
October 30, 2015 at 1:14 pm
My older sister and I also feel like we were robbed of a normal childhood. No college, Armageddon’s coming etc. And, when I went to elders for help with my alcoholic husband, they told me to be more submissive, too. I actually know an elder who was so in charge of his wife that he took her shopping and picked out all her clothes. Give me a break.
Women issues in this organization are bad.
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hagblay says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:32 am
This shunning is getting me madder each day. The bad part is not just the families that are hurting, but it makes me dam mad that those bastards in Brooklyn laugh about the problem. They think they are in charge and the flock should not leave. They bring it on their selves. I know them jerks laugh at that. They know they have us and there isn’t a dam thing we can do. The only thing that can be done is for the stupid flock to go along with this family breaking up bastards. If they didn’t go along with it then all is well.But like a bunch of cult followers they go along with the plan.
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dee says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:11 pm
@hagblay:
You sure are right: “They certainly know they have us and there isn’t a damn thing we can do. The only thing that can be done is for the stupid flock to go along……” because these family-breaking up bastards have set things up so that the ones on the inside will also be punished since any JW who does not shun a member who is disfellowshipped or disassociated risks the same fate.
The ones who leave are punished and the ones who remain on the inside risk the same fate……… those family-breaking up bastards certainly have it locked.
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Doc Obvious says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:44 am
Employers need to start shunning Jehovah’s Witnesses when they apply for a job. They need a taste of their own medicine. Maybe they will start thinking differently when people ignore them. If the JW’s cannot get a job, they cannot donate money to Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It will not matter how many times Watchtower will ask for money in their resolutions. They will not get anything from their rank and file members. It is that simple. If you think about it, what is the difference between shunning and discrimination?
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dee says:
October 30, 2015 at 3:58 pm
I am no legal mind but you may just be on to something. It is a person’s constitutional right to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience but apparently this only applies to JWs and not to persons who exercise these rights and decide to leave the religion.
These persons are punished by the harmful practice of shunning for exercising their constitutional right by leaving the religion. In my humble opinion that could perhaps be considered as a form of religious discrimination. I leave it to the legal minds to decide.
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Searcher says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:09 pm
Jeni,
You have said what so many of us here have thought. This is a destructive cult, no matter how the WTBTS, the GB, the elders, leaders, and hard-core followers try to rationalize. People within the cult need to know and have at least someone to put a shadow of doubt into them to wake them up from the watchtower coma. People, like yourself, that are brave enough to make the step to freedom need to have a supporter to let them know they are NOT alone. Remember, freedom isn’t free! It only takes one tyrant to take yours away. Finally, people that may be exposed or vulnerable to this cult’s poison need to have someone who has been there warn them of its dangers.
Keep speaking out!!!! We and many others need you.
Reply
M Saurus says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:11 pm
My family all faded in July of 2013. After a few perfunctory shepherding calls, we are now left alone. It’s wonderful.
My husband and I were in since early childhood and our grown son was raised in it. We are happier now than we’ve ever been.
However, I personally don’t think it’s up to me or my family to try to convince others to leave. I think if we put pressure on people to leave the org, who don’t feel the same as us, then how are we better than they are – putting pressure on others to join?
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 30, 2015 at 1:06 pm
Because they are in a doomsday cult that hides and denies its own history, uses thought control, protects pedophiles, yet shuns children seperating them from their families. Not saying anything is the equivalent of being a former guard at Aushwitz, who knows what is happening inside those camps yet keeps his mouth shut, because its none of his business.
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M Saurus says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:01 am
Auschwitz? That analogy is not relevant… The people there did not choose to enter. The people in the cult made a choice to join just as we made a choice to leave. Watching it crumble is one thing, it will implode without our help. But pressuring people to leave is just as bad as pressuring people to join.
Reply
dee says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:12 am
@M Saurus
You mention that you, your husband and grown son left and that your husband and yourself were in since early childhood.
Do you or your husband have family members remaining in the cult given that you were both in it from early childhood?
You didn’t mention what caused you and your husband to wake up and leave. Just wondering what was it that opened your eyes and made you both decide to leave?
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 31, 2015 at 10:33 am
How many more will needlessly suffer due to the apathetic attitude you push? You clearly have never been affected by this cults mind control or the consequences of resisting it. You obviously are indifferent to the thousands of child victims of pedophilia within the organization. You couldn’t care less about the depression and suicide rate amongst its victims, you sir/madam are speak of things you are clueless of, please troll elsewhere.
Reply
agatha says:
October 31, 2015 at 10:47 am
la gente fue engañada con una herramienta utilizada en control mental para personas con trauma que se llama mordida investiga saurus no es contra esa gente el reclamo
el reclamo es hacia el CUERPO GOBERNANTE maestros del control mental
exigir que dejen de reprimir de manera tan violenta las emociones naturales humanas basandose en un regimen mosaiquista y talmudico
Reply
shannon says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:06 pm
M Saurus..you say you left WITH your husband and son…you are fortunate (lucky ;), you may have a different view if they were still in and were shunning you!!!
P.S. I didn’t choose to join, I was in grade 7 and forced to attend.
Reply
Big B says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:17 am
How can you compare a death camp for mass genocide with an Evangelical Adventist cult? Last time I checked, a person can get up and walk out of a Kingdom Hall without getting gunned down by guards. You may lose friends and family through shunning, but a person has the freedom to escape if they want to…where those in the camps did not. Bad analogy all around.
Reply
dee says:
October 31, 2015 at 1:43 pm
@Big B
“Last time I checked a person can get up and walk out of a kingdom hall………a person has the freedom to escape if they want to……”.
You make it sound so easy. There are quite a few persons who wake up from the WT delusion who want to leave but they realize that they will lose a lot if they just walk out of the kingdom hall as you claim. Their financial and family relations, and in some cases their marriages, could be destroyed. They could end up in a social vacuum with no support system.
This is why these persons don’t just up and leave like that. They hang around hoping that the day will come when their other family members will wake up too and they can exit the cult together.
A passive form of Auschwitz if you ask me.
Reply
Peggy says:
October 30, 2015 at 1:23 pm
I am so happy for your family, Fading together. Freedom is so sweet. We can’t force people to change when they do not want to. But, the fine activists like those here are doing a great job of watching the Watchtower. We may watch it crumble.
Reply
Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:12 pm
@M Saurus. It is impossible to pressure anybody to leave the JW religion. It is impossible to say anything to help them see it’s even a cult. I don’t get where you think that it is even possible to put pressure on anybody to leave. That comment makes no sense to me.
I do see an analogy to being a prison guard for Hitler because those who know what is going on inside the organization and say nothing to anybody and just fade, don’t care about the lives being lost to the Organization. They only care about themselves. They are only taking themselves out of the picture but when you still have loved ones inside the Organization, it about kills us that we are not able to warn our loved ones that they wasting their one and only precious life serving an Organization that is lying to them. When we do try and talk to them, they turn a deaf ear and turn us in to the elders, thinking that we are apostates and are going to die at Armageddon or suddenly gone satanic and on the “dark side”.
They are dying every day from refusing blood transfusions. Do you have any idea how many have died due to the Society’s ban on transfusions? I say Society’s ban because if a person is a Bible reader and they want to please God, their taking of blood should be between that person and their God, not between them and the Society. Unless the Society can prove that God is speaking through them, they have no business deciding for anybody whether or not they should take blood. The Society not only destroys lives through shunning but are killing them by making them refuse blood transfusions.
The Witnesses are wasting precious time, going to meetings, service and assemblies when they could be having fun with their days on this earth. Days go into weeks and weeks go into years and years go into decades and before they know it, they are old and Armageddon still hasn’t come and they wasted the only life that they would have been blessed with.
I don’t want to see another person waste that precious life on the Watchtower lies and I’d do anything to tell everybody and anybody not to get involved but my hands are tied by the Society by scaring everybody I know not to talk to me now that I have stopped going to meetings.
Witnesses are living every day for the Watchtower Organization, thinking that they owe every waking moment serving that Organization or God is going to kill them at Armageddon. They live in constant fear and guilt and when we try and tell them anything about all the lies the Society is filling their heads with, we will be shunned and either disfellowshipped or marked.
What do you mean that we are trying to pressure them? If I could pressure anybody to leave, you had better believe that I would do that but it is not possible. You should know that by now because of the indoctrination that you were and they are all brainwashed by.
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RC8madBrit says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:15 pm
Well put Jeni. I have JW grandchildren being ‘home-schooled’ and I am worried about the future for them. Its almost like the Branch Davidians holed up in some compound. Reading Wikipedia on that cult I was struck by how similar all these cults are in their history and endless pedantic claims over petty interpretations. The problem is that they are having a great time in their little bubble-world. Who cares about truth and reality when we can just live in hope? The GB have a lot to answer for.
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Caltanzee says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Jeni, my grandmother always said that an open rebuke is better than a secret love..It took me years to understand the meaning of this..later I discovered that loving something or someone just for the sake of getting along in a manner of selfdenial was of no value.If someone is hurting you while saying they love you, you should speak up about it.Not cower in fear and suffer in silence…This is the modus operandi of watchtower..Its the secret love affair with all the hurt, pain and suffering, that must be kept hidden .”Don’t talk about it.just wait on Jehovah”.. But how can you keep quiet, when so many people are being held captive to a flawed concept.Robbing them of true happiness and peace of mind.Having them to live uneducated in poverty under mind numbing control..Just only hoping that Armageddon will come and kill off everyone else so they can live in a paradise of happiness and plenty.Yes!!! We must speak up and speak out against this captive concept of doom N gloom that’s destructive and manipulative.The warning must be sounded to set the captives free.
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John Baptist says:
October 30, 2015 at 12:23 pm
CULT CULT CULT. 3 times for emphasis! Check that off on my school slip please as a G. Oh wait no ministry school anymore.
To one and all please read “Combating cult mind control” By Steve Hassan
It will tremendously help you in part of your deprograming that is so needed by all who leave this damaging religion.
Jeni those feelings run way deep in many of us. Lost a marriage, family and friends just because I disagreed with their flawed doctrines. In my tribunal I skillfully showed those elders from the bible how wrong they were. They had their heads hanging by the time I got done with them. One elder even said perhaps I should pray for them. What a joke. Yes of course I was DF but many years later I hang my head high knowing the real TRUTH. A friend once said I only love those who love me back. And that’s how you have to leave it and move forward with your life.
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JBob says:
October 30, 2015 at 1:11 pm
I know why the caged bird sings. And, I know why the uncaged bird continues to sing.
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SR says:
October 30, 2015 at 1:26 pm
Thank you for speaking out. I don’t have skills like a lot who have left but I can speak out too. I am glad for places like this that allow m an opportunity to do so.
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jeff canning says:
October 30, 2015 at 2:23 pm
the dude who said don’t employ them has a point, bankrupt the family destroying pathetic lot of morons… I know who I will be leaving out of my will… The son who shuns me, who never invited us for a meal at his place in twenty years, who never brought his kids over to see me, who left me out of his wedding and his sons weddings… Sorry to sound so hurt but I am and the will is my way of getting even as no good waiting on God to square the ledger…
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shannon says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:16 pm
Jeff….I did the same thing, I’m leaving my money to the ones that listened to me when I was down about this religion, true friends!
I also stated that if I was hurt and in hospital that none of my family shall be allowed within 500 kms of my bed! If I’m no good now how the hell am I good when I’m dying.
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Ladonna says:
October 30, 2015 at 3:08 pm
I am Jeni’s aunt. I am not or never have been a JW. But her parents choice has harmed both Jeni, her sister, my parents, jeni’s other grandparents, and an entire extended family. For years she was taught how evil we were. I have reconnected with Jeni in her adulthood and we have a close relationship now. I am thankful she is such a strong, smart, caring soul. This cult is a stain on society.
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Susannah says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:31 am
So happy to hear this. I am glad Jeni is getting love and support from you. I have also made connections with family who were ostracised by my JW family. It is so healing to be in contact, especially when they can see what the JW beliefs do to the family.
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Jeni says:
October 31, 2015 at 12:12 pm
Thank you Aunt Ladonna! Your support and love for me has been amazing. I do consider myself lucky that I haven’t lost more relatives to Watchtower. I know I didn’t grow up knowing you, but getting to do that as an adult has been wonderful.
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Tara says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:36 pm
Ladonna that is so encouraging. So many say that they have burnt bridges with family members but to hear you speak gives us all hope that many will forgive the ones who have been brainwashed.
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(Sand dollar) says:
October 30, 2015 at 3:26 pm
All the people I know who have left the Watchtower have been hurt. I know, I left and am now being shunned. My wife has also now left and is also being shunned. At least we are free. (Galatians 5:1
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rob says:
October 30, 2015 at 3:28 pm
I feel like I was robbed of many things by this religion, such as family ties, celebrations, etc.
But the main thing that stands out to me is the fact that all is micromanaged to the tenth degree by this religion and that includes everything from education to entertainment to health issues to closeness between a husband and wife to family relationships.
I believe that God made the Earth so amazingly interesting and we are here to experience all of the magnificence of this creation. However the witness religion tells us that we cannot be happy in this system, and that me must put everything on hold for the new system and our only focus right now should be giving our time and money to the corporate religion.
I see the result of this and it translates into Kingdom Halls that are full of people with families who are fractured, and who try so hard to appear happy and say that they are happy, while on the inside there is sadness and regret for a life not lived.
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dee says:
October 30, 2015 at 5:31 pm
@rob
“……the witness religion tells us that we cannot be happy in this system……..”.
I used to believe that so much that I thought that my life would be nothing but constant misery and disaster in this life. I would constantly focus on the bad things that happen as surely this was proof that Armageddon was coming.
I would feel so conflicted and guilty to focus on the good things that were happening because then I would be supporting Satan’s system too much. I wouldn’t praise the good things that governments do because then that would be supporting Satan’s system too much, and besides, according to the WT, man cannot solve man’s problems as “it doesn’t belong to man who is walking even to direct his steps (Jeremiah 10:23).
So brainwashed I was that when I used to be in the religion and learnt of a JW who was working in an administrative capacity in the Office of the Prime Minister in my country, I wondered to myself: how could she be working so closely to the Prime Minister when we have been told just how evil and Satanic governments are, isn’t that supporting Satan’s system?
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Reader says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:34 pm
1975,……
I thought in 1965 at Twickenham what a silly thing to suggest, too loudly it seems.
Interestingly Isaac Newton [THE I.N.] disliked these world ends tommorow types & calculated 2060.
If you take the ‘ships of kittim’ as the Royal Navy in WW1, you cannot take 1335/1290 as years though Daniel 9 [70wks] would strongly imply this. Use the Islamic fleets victory at the ‘Battle of the Masts’ and you can see where its possible.
There is a common mistake in the west to think Rome -King of the North ended around 400-600ce forgetting the Roman [senior] Eastern Empire lasted till after Columbus was born. So for ships of kittim think Byzantium.
I think the “THIS GENERATION” has maybe not started yet.
The war of 1914-18 should be ignored Matthew 24 v 6 declares all wars a NON-SIGN.
My Mother was angry at me at Twickenham but a few days later, told me what she overheard in the ladies, a sister had been outspoken about the new DATE and a circuit servant’s wife was heard to say something like “ignore it maybe it will go away!”. Mother never told me who the CS wife was, perhaps knowing two rebelious thinkers was more than enough for one assembly.
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Catalina says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:57 pm
The reason why it’s important to speak out is because the JW religion is toxin. It takes very nice, normal, happy people and turns them into toxic, emotionally ill, unhappy people. A parent who turns their back on their offspring isn’t going to be emotionally happy. I warn people because I care. The JW religion makes it so people who are nice people become toxic themselves. That’s what happens when people aren’t allowed to respond to issues in a normal way. They become judgemental and unhappy and their family gets broken apart. We speak out to be emotionally well not to hurt or harm.
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John Plummer says:
October 30, 2015 at 4:59 pm
Bravo Jeni!
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Andy says:
October 30, 2015 at 5:17 pm
I want to speak out too, but I have yet to find my voice… how could one post their stories, speak out and share?
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Catalina says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:09 pm
Maybe Lloyd can make a page on this website so we can do that. It would be interesting to see how many people share similar experiences.
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Robert67 says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:09 am
http://www.jwstories.com
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Catalina says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:05 pm
Another reason for speaking out, for example, on websites like this one people who are unhappy and have doubts about the org do come here and find answers. One of them can end up being a family member. We help each other this way. I look at this as a self help group. I want to be emotionally well and coming here helps me.
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1914 ha ha ha says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:26 pm
You cant reason with jws, fµ½€ knows ive tried for 30 odd years. Arrrrrgh if only i could wake up.
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1914 ha ha ha says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:30 pm
sorry, them up. mum and dad.
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Robert67 says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:19 am
@1914
Some people, especially life long witnesses can only be reasoned with through a well prepared scriptural exposition on the WT. I would never have woken up otherwise, everything else comes off as worldly gossip.
Hebrews 4:12
‘For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword’
Use it to cut through the WT lies, don’t come off angry as it will only be reflected back at you. I was awoken by someone who placed Gods word above all else and being that he used scripture to point out the falseness of this org, it reached this former elder of 23 years straight to his heart. Sadly many will use the lazy method of just spitting out news articles and numbers which most witnesses have been conditioned to believe is worldly information. Those stats should be used as the finishing touch in your reasoning with loved ones, not your opening discussion.
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(Sand dollar) says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:48 pm
I read the comments that are made here and seldom say anything, but I do have something that I want to say now.
This is to any active witnesses that may be reading these comments. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? If you have the truth, It will hold it’s own against anything.
Anytime someone comes up with anything that the (Governing Body) doesn’t agree with, you immediately cut them off and start calling them names like apostate, mentally diseased, or some other negative names. You do not address the issue, you sidestep it and attack the person. I know the G.B. encourages you to do this, but why. Your own Bible tells you to make sure of all things. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) How are you going to do this if you do not examine all sides of the issue? In the Bible the people from Berea questioned what they were being told and were praised for doing it. (Acts 17:11) The G.B. shames you if you question, why? What are they afraid of?
Again. The truth will hold it’s own against anything if it really is the truth and if it is not wouldn’t you want to know.
I could go into a lot of things here, but I will keep it short. Again I ask, when talking to others who disagree, WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OFF?
Also, if you have any doubts or questions, shouldn’t you address them honestly and make sure of what is true? Don’t paste your eyes shut and look the other way. Face them and “make sure of all things.”
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Caltanzee says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:32 pm
Sand dollar, bravo! That was a great line of reasoning using a simple scripture and straight to the point.A scripture I’ve used many times to get some to open up their critical thinking skills..Its quite true, the truth should have nothing to hide. Infact, before the reasoning book.There was a green back book watchtower published named “make sure of all things.”…But now they don’t want the members to make sure of its teachings such as the Beroeans did. So as to come to a convincing conclusion as to whether they found the real truth…Now it’s just trust and blindly obey, whether it sounds logical or not from a human standpoint… If the members just stop and think for a moment, they will clearly see that something is wrong with watchtower’s suppression of thought. Yet it should be note worthy to current Jws of Questions
Posed by watchtower publication entitled” Mankind’s search for God. First printed in1990 and reprinted in 2006. .on page 5 There is a question…Why be interested in other religions?..On pages 8 is the question…why is it not wrong to examine other faith?..Yet if you go to any other religious service other than the KM, you’ll be brought up on a judicial, branded an apostate, and kicked out and shunned. Jws ! Just think on that for a moment…Next question: What factors usually determine a person’s religion? ..And here comes the caviate question that should give pause to all born in jws…On page 9
They pose the question…Why is it not reasonable to assume that the religion of one’s birth is automatically approved by God?…So from they own admission, being brought up a jw does not necessarily mean you have the truth…Yet they want you to blindly accept their dogma as fact without making sure it’s really what they say it is.!!…And why is it they want you to scrutinize other faith, but not their own.?? Don’t you smell a rat here.? Jws ..Think!!…Think about the double speak and deceit that is watchtower…If you can check others. Certainly, you ought to be able to check For yourself as what you are taught to believe..Acts 17:11.
Reply
Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:33 am
@Caltaneeze, Thank you for bringing up the book “Mankind’s Search for God”. I don’t have the reprinted version but I have the older hard cover version and you bring up some really good points. I would like to add that on page 10 of the older book it reads:
“True, people may strongly disagree about their religious beliefs, but there is no basis for hating a person just because he or she holds a different viewpoint. – 1 Peter 3:15; 1 John 4:20,21; Revelation 2:6.”
Also on page 7 it reads:
“On the other hand, there are millions of people who profess no religion nor any belief in a god. They are atheists. Others, agnostics, believe that God is unknown and probably unknowable. However, that obviously does not mean that they are people without principles or ethics, any more than professing a religion means that one does have them.”
Anybody who reads the comments here and is not a Witness but is looking into the religion has to take it from us who have been Witnesses for many years, that what the Watchtower puts in print in books and magazines, is not what they practice in real life. If any one of us says that we don’t believe in a god, we will be shunned and if we look into our own religion and question it’s teachings, we will be shunned and hated.
The Watchtower likes to trick people into believing that the Watchtower doesn’t lie to it’s people but that is exactly what it does. It says one thing in the publications but once a person gets baptized, you are not allowed to question any of it’s teachings from then on or you will be shunned and hated. Whey they print about looking at your religion is only applied to other religions and not the JW religion. JW’s are not allowed to examine their own religion. They are to accept it as “truth” on blind faith.
The Society can come up with “new light” any time they want to and you have to make a complete turnaround from one day to the next day, depending on which way the wind is blowing for the Governing Body and how they “now understand” the Bible.
What that means is that you could be having a Bible study with a person and teach them a “truth” one week and the next week, the “truth” is entirely different than the week before and you will come off looking like a fool and that is because we were all fools for believing that God was speaking through the Watchtower organization.
If it was “truth from God” one week, then it should be the “truth from God” the next week too”. Why would God lie to us through the Watchtower and just call it “new” truth.
If you are studying with a Witness at this time, don’t be afraid to question them. They are taught about one hundred scriptures and they think they know it all but they only know those scriptures and that’s it.
Don’t question them about hell fire or immortal soul the cross or Christmas or holidays. Question them about their history and how they can prove that God chose them as his only spokesman in 1919. They will have no answers for that but that is what the whole premise of that religion is built upon. They are blind followers of Joseph Rutherford and don’t even know it.
Ask them how could it be that anybody who had become a Witness before 1935 automatically became one of the “anointed” from Revelation who was going to rule over mankind from heaven and were of the 144,000? Ask them how old those people were when they were “anointed”? Shouldn’t they have proved faithful to death just as those who supposedly are chosen today have to do?
Just simple questions like that will show them up for what they are and that is blind followers of blind followers.
Reply
Kate says:
October 30, 2015 at 6:51 pm
Thank you for speaking out so eloquently, Jeni x
Reply
Thinker says:
October 30, 2015 at 9:05 pm
Keep shouting! Has anyone looked into renting billboards listing the real concerns the public should have regarding those who come knocking on their doors with “good news?” Think of the number of people in a town/city who would see a billboard each day for even one month!
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:26 am
The perfect location for these would be next to Kingdom Halls or any Road leading to an assembly hall. I’m working on stickers to hand out to people in my town to be placed on their front doors directing them to jwfacts and this site. Every little bit helps. Maybe place signs on front lawns of houses around these halls the way piticians do.
Reply
Kat says:
October 30, 2015 at 10:33 pm
bravo excellent article my sentiments for sure, thank you brave lady!!
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Andrew says:
October 30, 2015 at 11:16 pm
Jeni,
You are their worsed nightmare. You are not going away quietly letting them get away with it.
Reply
Kaput says:
October 31, 2015 at 4:03 am
Thanks for speaking out Jeni!
Many including myself have found this a difficult thing to do after all the many years of brain washing, guilt trips, “pseudo love” and psychological blackmail.
We do need to speak out to get our family and friends to start living their lives and not not the lives as dictated by a few old men.
I can personally attest to your observations of how people have been hurt and wasted their lives chasing after a lie.
This makes a person very angry and develops a need to express that frustration, websites like this have a very crucial role for this.
If it were not for people like you, Lloyd and team this would not be possible.
I can see a time when this corporation is exposed for what it is thanks to the valiant efforts of people like yourself.
I am ever more motivated by articles like this to speak out and also help others voice there experiences with this unloving corporation.
Kaput
Reply
agatha says:
October 31, 2015 at 4:10 am
que bueno es saber que siguen habiendo seres valientes que apuestan a la proliferacion de los SECRETOS desenmascarados
vivi todo tipo de abusos y vivi 35 años que puedo enfrentarlos dia a dia haciendome a la idea de que estuve secuestrada y tuve que cavar un tunel dentro de mi corazon a escondidas para hoy conocer la libertad y disfrutar la lectura de un libro cualquiera y la belleza de una simple flor sin temor hoy solo tengo un mandato que rige mi vida y es decirlo por todos lados de manera respetuosa para que si algun ser humano capta mis palabras puede animarse a luchar para escapar
felicidades jeny y nada es en vano nunca siempre si es el amor y la libertad la base de cualquier accionar se transforma en eso al final TRANQUILA Y PACIENCIA
ABRAZOS
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:29 am
Visita http://www.extj.com o http://www.vigilandoazion.blogspot.com para herramientas en español. Todos necesitamos ser activistas para ayudar a los pobres secuestrados en este culto.
Reply
Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 31, 2015 at 5:10 am
It is good to know that there are still brave beings that
are committed to the proliferation of unmasked SECRETS
lived all kinds of abuse and lived 35 years that I can face them every day getting used to the idea that I was kidnapped and I had to dig a tunnel inside my heart secretly for today know freedom and enjoy reading any book and beauty of a simple flower without fear today only have a mandate that governs my life and everywhere speak respectfully so that if any human being captures my words can be encouraged to fight to escape
jeny congratulations and nothing is in vain if never ever love and freedom the basis of any action that becomes the end CALM AND PATIENCE
(The above is what I cut and pasted to google
translate from Agatha’s very nice comment above. )
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M. Rhodes says:
October 31, 2015 at 5:32 am
Exactly. The tyranny will only end if enough of us speak out. We are the voice and our voices raised in unison may free future generations.
Can you imagine what a force for good we could be if we mobilized, if we held marches, if we passed out tracts, if we went on television, if we petitioned lawmakers? Laws can and do change, but it takes effort to raise awareness and expose evil.
Instead of allowing continued victimization by way of the gag order of shunning, we should be NOT be silent. No, we should be sounding the alarm that much harder.
Reply
Lene Willis says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:28 am
The policy on shunning is cruel. God is not the author of shunning. Laws should be in place to protect human rights. I though we lived in America. “Do we the people” have rights to leave the Jehovah’s Witness Organization without dictators holding our family and friends hostage. Should Watchtower Continue to be allowed to destroy families? STRONG and LOVING families are the very foundation that the World is based on. What will it take to change watchtower mind set? When and how can we as a group help change Watchtower deadly policies in a legal way.
Reply
BG says:
October 31, 2015 at 6:23 am
Unfortunately, the society does keep things controlled. When I told someone who I thought was my best friend about the situation in australia she didn’t want to believe it and said I was “fault finding” the organization. Not reporting 1006 pediphiles is not me fault finding, it is fault exposing. When I tried to tell the elders about the public hearing, they didn’t want to believe it. I was told that I had basically bought into a false story that was inspired by demons! And then one of the elders went on to deliberately insult me. I should have thrown them out of my house. One sister even told me that the reason my two and a half and three and a half year old daughters were molested and violently abused and the courts didn’t help is that my children “weren’t sheep!”
The audacity! One of the elders said that they couldn’t have me telling people that the society lied- which in my opinion they did by going on jw broadcasting and telling people that it had been their position to go to the police and report child sex abuse when in fact in July they were being investigated for not going to the police and covering up 1006 pedophiles! Sorry, I have a brain and do not agree with them, but you have got to be carefull. I have faded away and am still able to communicate with certain friends that I had as a jehovah’s witness. The elders told me that I needed to make a decision about whether or not I was going back to the truth or not. I am not going to let them pressure me because I know if I say I don’t want to come back they will shun me. If you say you don’t want to be a jw anymore, they consider you disassociated. Nope, not going to let them do that to me. I just want to be left alone by the elders and have the peace I haven’t had in years.
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ruthlee says:
October 31, 2015 at 7:08 am
Any of you still in ever counted how many in your kh actually came in from contact in FS ? we have around 120 regulars I counted 10 . Now mainly born ins even the 80yr olds. So how do you break old culture and endless years of indoctrination. It’s going to take a miracle and maybe that will happen. Anyone noticed now that you/me are fully awake how nasty some of them are? I would venture to say it is a clash of spirits! Certainly not very Christlike. I find I actually listen to what people really say and actually some of those stupid sheep condemn themselves out of their own mouths. It is quite interesting. So my conclusion is that every one who reads this website should out even just one comment ,a truthful statement of how they have been wounded it would make most interesting reading. Thanks all ruthless/ruthlee
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← Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
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Posted on October 30, 2015
speak-out2Oftentimes, when speaking to friends and acquaintances I am asked, “Why? Why do you care what the Witnesses do? Why do you bother writing articles or helping the ex-JW movement? Why not just move on and forget it all?”
I’m sure some of you reading this have similar questions.
To the casual observer, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are at best a group of nice people, and at worst a bunch of interrupting doorknockers with a doomsday message. The average person would not classify Watchtower as harmful. However, that’s simply not the case. And this is why I speak out.
I speak out because families are being torn apart by Watchtower’s cruel and unjust shunning policy
A person who decides to leave the organization must do so knowing they will lose friends and even blood relatives due to the Watchtower policy on avoiding those who reject their teachings. I personally have a sister I haven’t seen in thirteen years. We grew up inseparably, and now we are strangers. She has never met my daughter, and unless she too decides to leave, I will never meet her children.
My parents are lost to Watchtower’s demands, and I honestly have no hope of recovering that relationship. I am being shunned. It’s not fair and it hurts. So, I speak out.
I speak out because women and children are being held as victims by the misogynistic teachings at the Kingdom Hall
Pedophilia and domestic violence are swept under the rug at an alarming rate all across the world. The men in charge would rather keep the Watchtower brand name clean than admit a problem with abuse, and change policies that hurt vulnerable ones.
Unless there are two witnesses to the act, a child who is molested has no hope of recourse if the accused abuser denies his or her claim.
A woman who is beaten by her husband cannot leave him and remain in good standing within the organization. The only counsel given is for her to “be a better wife.”
I was that wife. I know how it feels. So, I speak out.
I speak out because countless innocent people have lost their lives because of a skewed interpretation of a biblical verse on eating blood
People are literally dying by refusing blood transfusions.
The lives of countless men, women, children, and even babies are seen as less important than following the edicts of the governing body. I hate seeing this senseless loss of life. It hurts me to see these victims of foolishness be lost. So, I speak out.
I speak out because children and young people, many of whom know no other way of life, are being denied access to a quality education
Homeschooling among Witnesses is encouraged—essentially cutting children off from the outside world. They are told that college and university learning is sinful, that reading anything outside of the information Watchtower provides is a path to destruction, that making an informed decision by looking at all sources on a topic could make you guilty of a crime known as apostasy.
I was the child who was too afraid to ask questions. As an adult, I can see how many opportunities I’ve missed in life by not pursuing education. I struggle now trying to complete a degree and raise a child at the same time. So, I speak out.
I speak out for those still inside who are suffering.
I speak out for those who have been lost or who have lost ones to these policies.
I speak out for those too weak to share their stories.
I speak out to show support to others who are trying to help.
I speak out to inform the public and hopefully keep more people from being hurt.
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97 Responses to The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
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Debbie smith says:
October 31, 2015 at 7:39 am
All I can say is Thank You Thank You Thank You. I am shunned by my entire immediate family . 5 years I have not seen mother, father, brother, niece and nephew. Please never stop speaking out! You are saving lives lost to depression, anger and fear.
Reply
agatha says:
October 31, 2015 at 10:40 am
por estos casos debe seguir este trabajo de boca en boca el CUERPO GOBERNANTE debe eliminar la expulsion de su doctrina por el bien de humanos que confian en ellos
debe comprenderse que no es contra los feligreses el reclamo
SEPARAR a la gente de estos cabecillas sedientos de dinero poder y esclavos llenos de miedo
JAMAS ir de punta con tjs son nuestros familiares hermanos hijos padres ellos solo deben recibir nuestro amor asi sea el silencio los RESPONSABLES son la WACHTOWER INC.
CUERPO GOBERNANTE SOLICITAMOS LA LIBERACION DE LOS 8.000.000 DE REHENES!
Reply
Catalina says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:34 pm
Agatha, Exactamente, no me gusta lo JW org Hace a la gente. ME GUSTARIA Que pudieran Ser Detenidos. Se llevan la felicidad emocional. Queremos estar emocionalmente bien. Toman esa habilidad de distancia.
Reply
Catalina says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:26 pm
Debbie Smith, I’m now going through shunning to. We speak out because we don’t like to see anyone struggle. I speak up because I want people to have peace of mind in their lives.
Reply
Kaz says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:03 am
Keep doing good work. You help people to open eyes.
Thank you for all your efforts, your time and your contribution! I would love to help you if I only can.
Once again thank you very much.
Kaz.
Reply
Robert67 says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:47 am
It seems my fiancé will be inheriting a small house in Chicago, il. We will be setting up shop there. I know that some of the most powerful ex-jw communities come from that part of the globe. I hope I can get in touch with them. I have so many ideas I want to start using to spread the truth about this cult.
I found stickeryou and vistaprint which can help me make stickers that people can place on their front doors to ward off JW’s and direct them to jwfacts and this site for WT truths. I would need people willing to help me hand these out instructing people on the benefits of placing these right where witnesses can see them. I visited the local assembly hall in Romeoville,Il once and it has just one road that leads to it. I will be looking into the cost of placing a large sign warning people of this cults practices. Pedophilia, Shunning, twisting of scripture, numerous failed and false prophecies etc….
I really hope others around the planet can find it in themselves to help rescue these poor spiritual hostages from this dangerous doomsday cult by picking up on their ex-jw activism. Don’t just move on, not yet, lets all donate a bit of our time before moving on to this very important cause.
Reply
Tara says:
October 31, 2015 at 3:09 pm
As you know I still attend some meeting because of family tie within the cult. I do however spend lots of time in ‘the field’ warning others and referring them to this and other sites. I have just had my ‘encouraging’ visit and the left the interrogation till the end. yes I admitted to going to my sons wedding – he is df’d. I told them my conscience was clear before God. They seemed taken aback so now I guess i wait on what comes next. I will continue to speak out although it is carefully.
Reply
dee says:
October 31, 2015 at 4:15 pm
@Tara
The following article contains useful information on the options for exiting the WT cult (disassociation, fading or disappearing). It provides suggestions on how to develop a successful exit strategy (fading or disappearing) if you are looking to avoid being disfellowshipped or announced as disassociated. It provides suggestions to help you plan your exit steps cautiously and carefully in the way that best fits your individual circumstances given that all of the exit strategies have their advantages and disadvantages:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/index#wiki_exit_guide
Scroll down to see the EXIT GUIDE.
Hope it helps.
Reply
Tara says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:23 pm
Thanks Dee. That is interesting and useful. I’m a pretty good actor…. or so I have been told…. lol.
Being ‘wise’ to them also helps you to see through their methods of lulling you into a false sense of security…. I was fore armed knowing this so when they brought out the big guns I was ready with counter attack…. Using the conscience card threw them. they couldn’t argue with it…. maybe they will go away and regroup or maybe they will sit back and watch. This site is helping me so much to build up confidence so that I can thwart their tactics. :)
Reply
Catalina says:
October 31, 2015 at 7:18 pm
Tara,Good for you for going to your son’s wedding. The fact you went to the wedding shows you are acting in an emotionally healthy way. This article why speak out gives the reasons why speaking out is an emotionally healthy thing to do. Jws aren’t emotionally healthy. Any parent who turns their back on their offspring isn’t going to be a ballanced, emotionally happy person. Good for you.
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Tara says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:28 pm
Thanks Catalina :) I totally believe it is wrong to try and come between a mother and her children… I think even the Bible mentions something about a child and it’s mother and the link…. can’t quite recall where I read it. My children and my grandchildren are my life. (and the cats…and I guess the kids dogs….)
Reply
dee says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:16 pm
Tara
Don’t let those elders turn you against your son. I’m sure if you should be in need it won’t be those elders who will come running to assist you.
Life is short. Never let anyone come in between you and your family. Always treasure your family no matter what so that at the end of the day you will have no regrets.
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Tara says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:25 pm
My son and I have a growing relationship now. He told me he is proud of me for learning to stand up against the Borg. He and his lovely wife are backing me up as are her parents and their friends… it’s quite humbling really.
Reply
Sorrento40 says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:07 am
Good on you for speaking out. All of us who were in the cult should speak out and reveal the truth about it. The JWs present a very benign image to the world, carefully hiding the high control, social isolation and emotional blackmail that underpins their cult. Until it is too late. Few people know about that reality. Instead they think the JWs are an odd Christian sect with nice, polite people who dress conservatively, don’t celebrate birthdays and other celebrations, don’t stand up for the national anthem and refuse blood transfusions. And that’s about the extent of it, which isn’t nearly enough warning.
We need to speak up to prevent others from falling victim to the initial nice message of life everlasting and all the love-bombing that fools people into wasting their lives and destroying real, unconditional relationships. Eleven years of my childhood was robbed from me, my parent’s marriage was destroyed and my mother is a stranger to all of us as she has wasted 45 years of her 87 years in that cult. She will die in the cult. I remember her before she joined and dragged us into it. A light, happy woman transformed into a harsh and joyless authoritarian. There are millions of us who have suffered in such a way, and many have endured far worse damage, even suicide.
Any time the subject of JWs comes up, I always state firmly that it is a cult that needs to be avoided like the plague. When I’m asked why, I tell them, careful to not sound spiteful or angry. Just the facts – the facts that few know about. Everybody is always shocked by the reality. So if that helps someone out there avoid getting sucked into that miserable existence, good!
Reply
dee says:
October 31, 2015 at 9:25 am
@M Saurus
You mentioned that you, your husband and grown son left and that your husband and yourself were in since early childhood.
Do you or your husband have family members remaining in the cult given that you were both in it from early childhood?
You didn’t mention what caused you and your husband to wake up and leave. Just wondering, what was it that opened your eyes and made you both decide to leave?
Reply
Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:
October 31, 2015 at 10:09 am
Jeni, I wanted to add my thank you and tell you how grateful I am to you and all the rest of you who take their time to warn people about the Watchtower abuses. If it wasn’t for all of you who go through the work of exposing Watchtower, I don’t know where I’d be right now. It’s all your work is what is keeping me going and not drowning in my own despair. Thank you all so much!!
I just listened to the latest jwpodcast and I wanted to say how much I will miss James but hope for the best for him and also think him for all that he has done.
Reply
Pow says:
October 31, 2015 at 1:24 pm
For those of us, that haven’t been completely ratted out or discovered, if you ever saw the movie” invasion of the body snatchers”, think of that moment when it’s discovered that your still human and everyone points and screams, that’s kinda of the general feeling when your still on the inside waiting for the shoe to drop.
However, it does feel like there’s a growing internal disconnect between our teaching and the believe that their right. More and more, it seems the r&f are giving less and less attention to the constantly changing doctrine, not even attempting to grasp the implications of any changes, on one hand I find that fascinating and on the other it seems discouraging, mise well just elect a Pope and be done with it.
Reply
Johnny Wilson says:
October 31, 2015 at 2:48 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My6fQtJP9f8
Short scene from “A Perfect World”. Yup.
Reply
William Draper says:
October 31, 2015 at 4:05 pm
William Draper, I left about the year 2000 , was in from 1975 to 2000 , disfellow shipped 2 times with just cause , such helped me to be stronger , and more disciplined . I left though , because numerous things just don’t stand scrutiny . The religion just isn’t faithful to scripture , brainwashes people to love the pronunciation of what they refer to as God’s name but it really is not . They are just stuck in tradition , no 7th Day Sabbath , will consider any person APOSTATE no matter how they are living , if they DARE to remain steadfast in understanding things a little bit differently . I am about as close to still being a JW as a person can be , but not .
I protest against quite a few things which r not scriptural , shunning in many instances is scriptural , but not as much as they make it . Just the writing of my book supporting the 7th Day Sabbath makes me an APOSTATE in the eyes of jws , where in scripture can such be found . my sister a JW doesn’t visit her mother except for a few hours every 4 years , same for her grand-daughter, every 8 yrs , and she has never been a JW , and mostly only mildly opposed .
After losing my children to being adopted (actually my exwife losing them) to the babysitter 1000 miles away from where we lived. Wiley . The jw elders actually supported her keeping children away from me because as they said , it is what her attorney said would be best for her to get full custody .
9 months she and her new husband lost the children due to neglect and abuse reported on by the babysitter in Indiana .
850- 532- 5053
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William Draper says:
October 31, 2015 at 4:22 pm
What I meant to mention is the great love that exist among the new, devastated from divorce and ex wife losing children to babysitter , going out in field service , the brother thought it best not to violate his conscience by sitting at same table and eating lunch with me .
Reply
Catalina says:
October 31, 2015 at 8:39 pm
Here is an example of why we want to warn people. I have a JW cousin she was very strict with her four kids. She wouldn’t take her kids to disneyland because they are gay friendly and because of tinker bell the fairy. All four of her kids are disfellowshipped and she doesn’t speak to them. I warn people.
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13 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
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george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
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Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
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Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
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Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
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Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
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Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
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frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
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Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
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Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
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frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
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pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
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Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
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25 Oct
Watchtower&Awakening @ApostateAwake
So the #ClocksGoBack.
Great, could someone let #Creationists know they can bring theirs forward a couple of thousand years?
Cheers guys.
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
Susannah JW Reporter @JWReport
Dont bother to write to #Jehovahswitnesses here is what they are told to say #bonkers #Awake or just #wakeup #free http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
JW.borg @jw_borg
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider … very interesting guidelines for JWorg, regarding correspondence. Thanks @cedarsjwsurvey and to whoever leaked this.
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
AvoidJW.org @avoidjw_org
Racial Segregation & Jehovah’s Witnesses http://avoidjw.org/2015/10/racial-segregation/ …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
Anthony @armathenia
Cheers to @cedarsjwsurvey and his insider getting this out. http://jwsurvey.org is bogged down, but check out his article soon.
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
JW.borg @jw_borg
@HowardandCarlos @cedarsjwsurvey Big day for this leak. It splashed on reddit.....hard. The more people who know about this cult, the better
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
Snoop-a-Loop @Alesiskorg
@cedarsjwsurvey didn't know a "true Christian" does not participate in tying of tubes/vasectomy unless life danger pic.twitter.com/eX957ltyjS
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Announcing the latest leak of highly-sensitive #Watchtower documents... https://youtu.be/BCqT4tvqzOg via @YouTube
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23 Oct
AvoidJW.org @avoidjw_org
Highly-secretive "Talmudic" Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Watchtower's fabled "Correspondence Guidelines" document, in all its "talmudic" glory, has been leaked by an insider http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-29Q
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22 Oct
Steve Guziec LPC @sunafterfog
Jehovahs Witness grandparents ordered to keep faith to themselves http://buff.ly/1QVk2ok Parent choose what children learn @cedarsjwsurvey
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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22 Oct
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
I've had #watchtower's top secret "Correspondence Guidelines" document leaked to me. Look out for an article soon! :)
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22 Oct
The Atheist Geek @TheAtheistGeek
News and Links for ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses: Child Sexual Abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses on Australian TV http://www.atheistgeeknews.com/news-and-links-for-ex-jehovahs-witnesses-child-sexual-abuse-within-jehovahs-witnesses-on-australian-tv/123 …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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22 Oct
Hemant Mehta @hemantmehta
Canadian Judge Rules That Jehovah’s Witness Couple Can’t Push Their Faith on Grandchild http://bit.ly/2005jP1
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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22 Oct
The Freethinker Mag @FreethinkerMag
New post: Judge protects child from religious conflict http://freethinker.co.uk/2015/10/22/judge-protects-child-from-religious-conflict/ …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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17 Oct
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Jehovah's Witnesses Formalize "Tight Pants" Rule: No Preaching Unless You Conform to Gender Norms - http://go.shr.lc/1jLNr9l via @Shareaholic
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16 Oct
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Wearing "disturbing" clothing can get you banned from preaching if you're a #jehovahswitness http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-29o
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16 Oct
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Tony Morris' personal crusade against #tightpants has morphed into official #Watchtower policy! http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-29o
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