JWsurvey.org articles and recent comments reposted - Part 1

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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
new-cedars-signature2

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303 Responses to About JW Survey


Newer Comments →
 
 CARLOS FARINHA says:

 September 19, 2012 at 8:21 pm
 
Boa noite.
 Nunca desista do seu trabalho.
 Os cristãos primitivos eram humildes e sinceros.
 Continue e revele as mentiras do ” corpo governante ” .
Obrigado.
Reply
 
 
 Aonymous says:

 September 22, 2012 at 11:39 pm
 
WBTS are Criminals….
Reply
 
 
 A Happy Witness of Jehovah says:

 September 25, 2012 at 11:37 am
 
Some of the comments offered here are sounding like apostasy to me. I would not ever want to voice such opinions as the ones even by the founders of this website. I truly believe this is “Jehovah’s” organization and the fact He uses imperfect men does not make it any less His. When one speaks out against His earthly organization they are speaking out against His ability to make sure things are done properly. We must have faith that errors will be corrected and adjustments will be made. That does not make Jehovah’s teachings erroneous but merely a fact when men are used. We know His Holy Spirit is always prayed for and is a guiding force for all. Did you ask for His spirit when you decided to voice your opinion for all to see? Did you ask His guidance for the website you have created? You have given voice to apostates which we are never supposed to listen to. How does that make you feel? It makes me sick to even think about it. I am sure the “first” apostate is very happy. Thank you for the space but I really hope you will pray for Jehovah’s guidance and really think about what you are publishing. Some of it is shameful.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 September 25, 2012 at 1:57 pm
 
I’m sorry you feel that way. Is there anything I’ve written on this website that is demonstrably false? If so, please draw it to my attention and I will gladly look into it.
Reply
 
 
 Emma says:

 January 21, 2013 at 12:20 am
 
Well said! I agree with you! :)
Reply
 
 
 Truestory says:

 March 7, 2013 at 7:10 pm
 
In Jonestown they believed in Jim Jones as the ultimate spokesman for god so much until they were willing to die with him… Will you drink the kool aid if they ask you to?
Reply
 
 
 
 a former witness says:

 September 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
 
A faithful Jehovah’s witness couple survive the battle of armaggedon.They notice that there is no survivors in the immidiate vicinity and are so happy to be alive in the new system that they start making love to each other. Just at that moment a faithful Jehovah’s witness who died is resurected.He hears some noise and a rustling behind the bushes and goes to investigate. “Thats not fair!” he shouts, “they make it through armaggedon alive and now they’re breeding like rabbits, and yet I died and was resurected and not only am I not supposed to have sex, I’m not even allowed to masturbate!”
Reply
 
 
 songofecho says:

 September 30, 2012 at 10:10 pm
 
I always thought that was unfair. Many JW’s are told to wait until the paradise to have children, and many who wait die before armaggedon and will never be able to marry and have children. The JW’s don’t believe resurrected ones will be allowed to have sex, but they teach that even if Abraham had sacrificed Isaac, Jehovah would have resurrected him to fullfill the prophecy of Isaac being the father of a great nation. How would that have been possible if he couldn’t have sex?
Reply
 
 
 An unhappy witness of Jehovah says:

 October 13, 2012 at 7:28 am
 
I have been raised in the truth [49 yrs old] and I was a faithful ‘Happy Witness of Jehovah also, for 35+ years until 2002 when I was chemically poisoned at the dry-cleaners I worked in and damaged the lining of my lungs. Because I now have severe chemical sensitivities and asthma [My throat & lungs close up during an attack]. I was now no longer able to walk into a Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall, or go door-to-door without a severe attack. The elders of my congregation AND my own family members who were JW’s said I would be considered inactive and was told that if I couldn’t go to meetings or out in service that I would die at armeggeddon. I wrote the Governing Body at NY a letter and was told that there is nothing we can do, just do your best that you can. So now I get the phone tie-in from my local congregation. I can get my magazines thru the Society’s website. KM’s are a hit-and miss situation unless I stop at my bookstudy coordinator’s house and pick them up myself… But I get very limited contact with my brothers and sisters because of the stigma attached to a publisher who cannot go out in service or meetings. It’s been VERY diffcult emotionally because I know what the literature says about showing love for our brothers and sisters but I can see how my family & I have been treated for the past 10 yrs. So I know that most of the ‘Happy witnesses’ out there that would never say ANYTHING negative about the organization have NEVER had their faith tested to such extremes. So there may be some negative comments that sound like ‘apostasy’ but truth is truth!
Reply
 
 
 sharah says:

 October 14, 2012 at 7:53 am
 
In the time of ancient Israel the measure of keeping the nation clean of fornicators,adulterer of criminals,etc,etc. Under the Law, a wrongdoer deserving capital punishment usually was pelted to death with stones. (Le 20:2) This was to ‘clear out what was bad from their midst.’ All Israel would hear of the punishment, and fear of such wrongdoing would be instilled in their hearts. (De 13:5, 10, 11; 22:22-24) In stoning an evildoer, they showed that they were zealous for true worship, anxious to see that no reproach came upon God’s name, and desirous of maintaining a clean congregation.
 Before a wrongdoer could be stoned, AT LEAST TWO WITNESSES had to give harmonious testimony against him, and thereafter they cast the first stones. (Le 24:14; De 17:6, 7) The prospect of being the executioner made a person think searchingly in giving evidence and doubtless was a deterrent to false testimony, which, if discovered, would cost the lying witness his own life.—De 19:18-20.
Reply
 
 
 Mandalay says:

 October 14, 2012 at 3:44 pm
 
Unhappy witness. Unfortunately, your situation is no big surprise to me.There was an wheel-chair bound sister who had moved into a house less than 1/2 mile from our Kingdom Hall. Her husband was not a JW but would bring her to the meetings in a van. Our elders basically told her to scram, that she lived in territory assigned to another Kingdom Hall about 5 miles away and she needed to go there. She was devastated emotionally and cried. Imagine having to tell her unbelieving husband about the unwelcome the congregation gave her. There is not enough space here to get into specific quotes, but this kind of insensitivity is coming directly from content in the WT publications, as the publications are often held in higher esteem than the God’s Word itself. Keep up what you’re doing and remember, our ministry takes many forms. If you can, write a few letters to friends and relatives expressing your faith and report your time. Persons in your situation can report fractions of time. And keep writing the WT.
Reply
 
 
 Sarah Puffer says:

 October 20, 2012 at 10:25 am
 
I relate to Candace Conti in a major way. I have a story of truth that would blow your mind. My real paternal grandmother was a Witness, when my grandfather died she and my Aunt and Uncles moved in with our family. They were all grown and able to care for themselves. My grandmother was very active in the Organization (which they like to call themselves) until her death. She sat and did nothing while her son raped and tortured my two oldest sisters. This went on for so long that my sister finally got pregnant by my uncle and left. This started when my sisters were 10 or 11 years old. My grandmother, father and all of my aunts and uncles knew what was going on in our house, but no one cared. My grandmother and father moved us to Vidor, Tx. when I was 5 years old. Little did I know that my father had communications on paper showing that we girls were for SALE. Yes, for sale pictures were taken, so that people could see what they were bidding on. The bites came, but they were for every child but me. I was settled on and adoption came, along with depression. No one ever sat down and told me that I had a new mother and father. The new mother had a daughter by a previous marriage who was 13 and hated me. She told me to never touch her, and so I caught on real fast. My parents had left the house one day and two men came to our house and picked me up screaming and kicking all the way out to the car. I was put in the car and told to shut up. The neighbor remembered it 30 years later. He said it haunted him like a ghost. So I spent months on a swing in the front yard, waiting for my real mother and father to come and get me. My new father didn’t take long at all to start straightening me up. I would have to do stupid things like walk in high heels along the fence line all day so that (as he said) I could learn to walk straight. I was given a bible and assigned scriptures at the age of six so that I could learn to read (with no help) If I couldn’t do it, I got a horrible switching when he got home. When I started first grade I could read and write. Self taught, along with a lot of whippings. By the time I was 8 I wanted any other woman to be my mother, except the one I had. Little did I know that the arguments between the husband and wife stemmed from resentment that she had built up over him molesting her daughter. I learned this years later. Over the course of 13 years, I was mentally, physically and sexually abused. When I was 19 I left. I have suffered from a lot of abuse in my life because when you are raised with it, it is very hard to teach yourself how to change it. The mental damage was never corrected. I have been under the care of a psychiatrist for many years and I take medication. My nerves are so bad that even though I was a secretary for years, it is very hard for me to type and I have to correct a lot. I am 58 years old and I can hardly function. I cry all the time. Someone told me that I should try to see the happy side of life and my reply was:”I don’t know how to be happy, I was never taught happy. My Dr. informed me last week that, I was going to die because I take the largest dose of medication that my body can stand. I was molested by my new father from the ages of 10 to 12. I told his wife, she called the other elders in the Congregation (YES, he was an elder) and he was forgiven because he was repentant. He admitted doing it and he was forgiven. When I left home, they moved, after they told everyone that they had kicked me out because I was in love with him and I wanted him to divorce her and marry him. This was done to destroy my credibility, so that if I ever told anyone what went on in our house, I would not be believed. I was allowed one friend who was 10 years older than me and she was told that I lied a lot. After each visit with her my mother would ask her what we talked about and if I said anything out of line? I lost everyone I had ever known growing up when I chose to leave Jehovah’s Witnesses. When they moved they told everyone in their new congregation that they had no children. 35 years later when I come walking in to bury the man, people actually told me that they did not know that these people had any children. One woman said, they raised us children, and I want you to know that you were a very lucky child to have them as your parents. I was dumb-founded. Lost for words, I remained quiet. Another woman hugged me and thanked me for taking care of the funeral arrangements financially, because they could not afford to take care of it. Again I had no reply. Who thanks a child in their 50’s for taking care of their parents burial? Everything in the will was left to The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Brooklyn NY. I will look at the settlement for Candace as a success in the settlement of my parents estate. My daughter found my real family in 2010. It has proven to be very unsettling for me. I can honestly say that I LOVE unconditionally, my children and grandchildren, and God. If anyone ever lays a hand on them they will be answering to God personally. Like the saying goes: “Hell hath no wrath like a woman who has been scorned.” Or as I say: ” Life stinks and then we die.” Where is the justice?
Reply
 
 
 Phil says:

 October 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm
 
God Bless you Sir. I will pray for you. I hope your family form the Kingdom Hall realise they have a duty of care towards you. Draw close to Our Saviour he is right there near to you. Ask and you will receive.
 love your Brother in Christ
Phillip
Reply
 
 
 Graham Central says:

 October 21, 2012 at 7:51 pm
 
I stand with you in spirit, Cedars. One may leave a legitimate religion and not fear losing one’s family connections. When one leaves a cult, that cult does everything in its power to ruin the one leaving, even seperating one from one’s family. Having been raised as a JW, this much I have learned: Being raised in a cult is like being raised in a snake pit. In my opinion, the Watchtower Society has become a spiritual police state. I have learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves. Nothing that I might do or say will change the outcome of things.
Reply
 
 
 KtotheRAD (Konrad) says:

 October 25, 2012 at 12:28 am
 
The Society itself says, “The Truth can never be Apostasy” but since when do they care much what they themselves write? And there are No Excuses or Allowances for Disabilities in that organization as you found out the hard way! If they can’t see it? It ain’t there!
Reply
 
 
 MATIN SARFAS says:

 November 17, 2012 at 4:24 am
 
Let hope the wt is on it way out over Candace
 Con> hope her lots money she is wins over wt let as now .martin I came out wt 2002
Reply
 
 
 Roger says:

 November 18, 2012 at 7:36 am
 
It really is a shame. I have been serving for some 35+ years, (I no longer associate)which included being an Elder and Congregation Secretary,and many other positions, as you would get these because of who you are, and have met some really decent and committed Christians in the organisation. And yet I found very little love among them. They seemed to be almost scared of the People around them in particular the Elders. And the various Cliques and innuendos, as well as the gossips that keep apart and destroy the very thing that should unite. “You will know them because there is Love among them”…
Well I found very little, to the point that due to my wife who was not a witness, I had not one call ever to my House in that time, other then to question certain actions that I took based on scripture, such as regularly “calling on the flock”.
What really upset me was the way that the governing Body demanded all sorts of behavior, while the Bible clearly said that Jehovah looks favorably on those contributions given freely of ones own accord. These would be acceptable in Gods sight.
 And yet it was amazing the amount of “you have to do…
The other point I would like to share is the one of dates.
 Now that I think about it, this format is possibly incorrect/insufficient, as I would need much more space, as there are so many inconsistencies which would show just how far they are removed from reality.
with christian Love
 Roger
Reply
 
 
 Anonymous says:

 November 18, 2012 at 7:45 am
 

An unhappy witness of Jehovah
 I have been raised in the truth [49 yrs old] and I was a faithful ‘Happy Witness of Jehovah also, for 35+ years until 2002 when I was chemically poisoned at the dry-cleaners I worked in and damaged the lining of my lungs. Because I now have severe chemical sensitivities and asthma [My throat & lungs close up during an attack]. I was now no longer able to walk into a Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall, or go door-to-door without a severe attack. The elders of my congregation AND my own family members who were JW’s said I would be considered inactive and was told that if I couldn’t go to meetings or out in service that I would die at armeggeddon. I wrote the Governing Body at NY a letter and was told that there is nothing we can do, just do your best that you can. So now I get the phone tie-in from my local congregation. I can get my magazines thru the Society’s website. KM’s are a hit-and miss situation unless I stop at my bookstudy coordinator’s house and pick them up myself… But I get very limited contact with my brothers and sisters because of the stigma attached to a publisher who cannot go out in service or meetings. It’s been VERY diffcult emotionally because I know what the literature says about showing love for our brothers and sisters but I can see how my family & I have been treated for the past 10 yrs. So I know that most of the ‘Happy witnesses’ out there that would never say ANYTHING negative about the organization have NEVER had their faith tested to such extremes. So there may be some negative comments that sound like ‘apostasy’ but truth is truth!
Reply
 
 
 John Wolf says:

 November 18, 2012 at 8:08 am
 
Isn’t it wonderful the way truth will infiltrate even the most close minded and blind followers who really want to know truth.The Holy Spirit is in the world searching for those who will come to the True Light of the world,Jesus Christ.Without Him,all walk in darkness.He is worthy of our praise as witnesses of the true God.I do my best to follow the teachings of the Bible,especially where it instructs me on who to worship.For example: NWT of the Christian Greek Scriptures,1950 edition @ Hebrews 1:6,”But when he again brings his firstborn into the inhabited earth,he says:”And let all God’s angels worship him”.I thank God that he has allowed such a wonderfully accurate and perfect translation to be manufactured,aren’t you? I mean,after all,if it’s O.K. for the angels to worship Jesus,then we should be able too also,right?
 I was also struggling with the idea of the Holy Spirit being an impersonal “Active Force” rather than Him having the attributes of a person when I stumbled onto II Cor.3:17 in the NWT,where it plainly says,”Now Jehovah is the (Holy) Spirit”.I no longer struggle understanding that the Holy Spirit is indeed a person,He is God Almighty,because according to this verse,He is Jehovah! Praise His wonderful name! I certainly do not understand though how this verse could be referring to any other Spirit as Jehovah,Because Jehovah is Holy isn’t He? And if Jehovah is Spirit as Jesus said He was in John 4:24,what other Spirit could Jesus be referring to than the Holy Spirit? If Jehovah is Holy,and He is Spirit,then logically thinking,He must be the Holy Spirit,right? Of course,that the same conclusion I came to! I’m so glad there are others who see that the Watchtower has been in error about so many different things.It’s truly refreshing that there are others who have decided to think on their own when it comes to some of the Junk that the GB dishes out.Keep up the good fight of faith and continue to expose error for what it is!……….thank you,John.
Reply
 
 
 Apóstolo TDS says:

 November 19, 2012 at 5:04 pm
 
Um irmão anônimo, uma Testemunha de Jeová/TDS, indicou-me seu site hoje. vim ver e lê-lo. Adicionei-o aos meus favoritos e, de tempos em tempos, virei aqui ver o andamento do trabalho cristão do irmão.
Força e que o “espírito dos Deuses santos” continue a iluminar o irmão. – Daniel 4:8, 18.
amor cristão desde São Paulo/Brasil.
Apóstolo Testemunha dos Deuses Santos
Reply
 
 
 Stormy says:

 November 19, 2012 at 9:27 pm
 
I feel so bad for you. But I’m surprised it has taken this long for you to see how JW’s REALLY are. It’s all so fake and phony. Once you’re in, then you’re not the shiny new toy anymore and if you don’t find a click, well, you’re alone, even if you’re surrounded by 300 JW’s. Time to get out dude! Really, run for your life…or walk really slow, but just get out! Wish you the best from Cali USA
Reply
 
 
 William E Enoch Sr says:

 November 30, 2012 at 6:12 pm
 
Cedars, I don’t believe Happy Jehovah’s Witness can show anything false in what you state on this website. You have presented the ultimate “conversation stopper”. Happy Jehovah’s Witness undoubtedly has not and probably will never be taught by the GB how to deal with facts when presented in the field service.
Reply
 
 
 Random says:

 December 29, 2012 at 1:40 am
 
Hey. I would like to let you know that people like you dont make it any better for people like jw’s. They already have enougfh trouble as it is going out and getting yelled at, constantly offended by opposers and even picked on by people who were “friends”up until the moment they corner them with abusive talk about their own religion to their faces… Religion isnt about people who praise hallelujah to a god they dont even know let alone even read or know the bible… It is about being kind, reading and knowing the bible so well, you practically know most common verses, being friendly to all (including those who oppose you), and believeing and having faith in your religion. And from my view point thats exactly what Jw’s do, compared to most other people who claim to be apart of a religion, when all their money is just going into the so called “priests” etc and their lives and dedication to churches is toward some really fake religions… Not saying there is a right or wrong religion here of course. Just saying- religion is a delicate matter. And if Jw’s are a religion (which they are not a cult. They truly are a religion), they should not be abused by so many and constantly be singled out as a “cult” or a “sect”. They are indeed more a religion than any other ive seen… I guess thats up to you to make sure you guys make the right decision. And im guessing this website was set up because some jw offended you or was too over the top or broke your heart or even you may have been a jw once… But truly… If you think making a website picking on other people and their beliefs makes you any better a person… I would reconsider… And i hope you actually read this and think long and hard… This isnt a threat… Its a conversation from one ordinary person to another…
Thankyou sincerely,
 Random. (i would be obliged to tell you my name but i dont want any stalkers or anything following me cause frankly, thats an invasion of privacy).
:)
Reply
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 8:11 am
 
‘Picking on other religions’ eh Random? WHat do JWs do except declare that all other self declared CHristians are ensnared by the Devil and deserve an imminent divine murder at Armageddon? Most people I know who come across JWs only as door knockers, actually admire their earnest devotion. It is we ex JWs, who have experienced the horrors of your cult from the inside, that know the truth about JW TRUTH. Your posts, Random, are, of course, valuable in the global campaign to destroy the WBTS. Any curious reader will see the dreadful state of mind of one whose mind and life are totally dominated by JW indoctrination. Keep up the good work Random. In our separate ways we will help to rid the world of this JW scourge!
Reply
 
 
 
 James yehat says:

 January 5, 2013 at 12:25 pm
 
I came across this site a few weeks back and though about just ignoring it as the founder and sponsor seem to at least express things which are similar to other anti- Jehovah`s witness sites – but decided on my own initiative to express a few concerns.
 1 – I do question whether the owner of this site is in fact one of us?? due to the nature and manner of the disagreement expressed on this site.
 2 – The organisation is unique in that it is the only one that does ever thing that is only based on the bible – so it is not influenced my man or preference`s or personal choices based on back ground or culture for example; it only goes be the bible and the principles in the bible.
 3 – the governing body in making its final decision on matters do delegate and intrust a lot of responsibilities to branch committee`s – all the way down to the appointed elders in the congregation – that means that when a decision is made, lets say in the case for a miner to be diss fellowship; there are a few things straight away – depending on the age of the child its parents are informed and a discussion takes please with the judicial committee as to how best help that child to make its way back – please note these suggestions are done in consultation with the parents – in addition there are not strict guidance – a resent update on the process that elders much follow before reaching that stage if they decide to do so – in addition the child or teenage has the opportunity to appeal against the there decision that the elders locally make. The appeal committee makes an independent decision based on the truth in the case – & if they cannot make a decision then the branch in that country look into the case and a decision is then made – if at that stage the decision is to go for the serious discipline to diss-fellowship then a review on that decision much be done on a yearly based by the original judicial committee, if not sooner- the spirit and attitude is to all way help the erring one to come to there senses and yes this is the over riding point to show and give clear evidence that he / she is repentant & secondly to maintain cleanness in the congregation –
4 – if that child / teenager is at home what this all happens then the parents are with out question still responsible for the physical care of this child – it is so by the law of any land and it is also fully expected by the organisation – if for some reason the teenager decided to go leave by mutual consent be all concerned then that is not done by the influence or decision by the organisation & its governing body –
so what can I say in conclusion on this matter? its this – we must all be loyal to Jehovah & his organization at all times as Jehovah`s dedicated witnesses – remember Jehovah is over all in charge and he as delegated authority to his son Jesus Christ who in turn has the Elders in his right hand of authority who are refereed to has stars. must full trust and wait on him knowing that any errors and wrongs will be set straight by our loving and caring father Jehovah who does all things for the sake of his people – I suggest that this site just like many others will in time become a irrelevance, and gods people will only go from strength to strength.
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 Cedars says:

 January 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm
 
Thanks James for your honest if rather programmed reaction to our site.
Your prediction is: “I suggest that this site just like many others will in time become a irrelevance”
I have about as much confidence in that prophecy as I have in this one…
“[Jehovah’s Witnesses] believe that… some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world” – Reasoning book, page 200.
Cedars
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 January 20, 2013 at 2:11 pm
 
The Aborigines (and I love them for it) have been around over 80000 years: before a bunch of goat herders in a Middle Eastern GPS unavailable to them decided the world of humans must sit up and take note. It was not surprising therefore that it took until about 3 centuries ago for them to even hear about this. Maybe this had something to do with Jewish circumcision? Shrug! You see the Aborigines split the penis from behind the tip right down to the groin area and let it heal into some broccoli looking expression of genitalia that enabled them to use reeds to control conception. Even if the Jews had ventured there, such comparable macho practices would hardly stack up against these raw hard natives – best leave these alone and stick to our less conspicuous “Snick for Yaweh.”
You can, no doubt see the comparative appeal right there?
So why then, I ask you all, are we so vehemently credulous to fall for a smalltime goat herders philosophy, from a time before refrigerators and anaesthetics, as if it applied to the whole world and every human therein from before and beyond space time as we know it? How can we grant plausibility to an idea that an all powerful mind, for reasons undescribed and left to our suspicions, decided to give these snippets of rulings and regulations to certain humans in certain places in the hope that somehow others , down the millennia, would be equal in falling for its preposterous claims to have rights over all of us?
And why should we tolerate such a manifestly intolerant preposition upon all humanity???
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 3, 2013 at 12:43 pm
 
Books, Videos, Facebook pages, blogs and websites exposing the house of lies and horrors that is the WBTS are proliferating; ditto the number of impending court cases connected with JW pedophile protection. The WBTS, meanwhile (which you, James Yehat, with pathetic credulity describe as ‘God’s Organisation’) has stalled in its expansion and is likely soon to diminish. The internet, with its interactive, as opposed to top down, communication, is the enemy of dictatorships everywhere, and the JW bosses are incapable of handling it. They have labelled ‘apostates’ as mentally diseased. Having failed to steer their followers away from the internet and possible infection with heresy (i.e real facts about the JW cult), they are now making efforts to engage with the internet via an improved website. This will be ineffectual; no feedback will be admitted which does other than glorify the outfit that produces it. I suggest, James Yehat, you prepare yourself for the implosion of your poisonous cult, and for re – engagement with the world that you have pretended you are no part of. The ugly little corner of the world that has always pretended it is no part of the world, i.e the JW org. will, we hope, soon be merely a grubby little footnote in the history of Christendom.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 10, 2013 at 1:28 pm
 
James Yehat, and other believing JWs or sympathisers; have you ever stopped to consider why there are so many anti JW websites and Facebook pages? This does not happen with other sects, denominations or even with every cult. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, and it was, by far, the worst aspect of my childhood. I actually believed JW TRUTH, as spouted by the Elders at my UK Kingdom Hall in the 1950s. Jehovah, back then according to the JWs, was set to murder the greater part of the human race before the end of the 20th century; and why? because the greater part of the human race did not attend the Kingdom Hall and spend their spare time and money on buying and distributing WBTS lit. door to door.
Can any of you believing JWs tell me what the WBTS has achieved beyond the following:
1. Inducing nightmares about a mythical Armageddon.
2. Making an unevidenced claim that its bosses, the Gov. Bod., are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24.
3.Causing the deaths of thousands through their ever changing blood transfusion edicts.
4. Causing the splitting of families through their shunning directives.
5. Protecting paedophiles through their 2 witness rule.
6. Making a series of duff prophecies about the advent of Armageddon. (1925, 1941, 1975 and before the death of the 1914 generation are but a selection)
7. Furnishing Judge Rutherford with a luxury mansion (Beth Sarim) and a brace of Cadillacs.
8. Covering up the Masonic origins of the cult when Russell founded his Bible students.
9. Depriving millions of a decent education by declaring any skills beyond the ability to read JW lit., and spout JW doctrine door to door, to be ‘worldly’.
10. Amassing a vast property portfolio in Brooklyn and around the world.
I would be interested to hear of any other achievements, but having read the history of the cult by many authors (including the WBTS ‘Proclaimers’ book) I have never come across any others.
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 ceecee says:

 January 17, 2013 at 8:05 am
 
if you were in a congregation where I live this would not happen. You could learn sign language and participate more fully.
 Devon
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 Peter says:

 January 18, 2013 at 10:49 am
 
to:Rowland Nelken,
☻
I have been a witness all my life
 I want to serve God
 the correct way.
The only thing that JW’S have gotten wrong are DATES-☺
They are organized to preach the Good News
 i have learned that
 God is not a trinity
 God does not torment people for ever
 God has a name just like everyone else JEHOVAH
 The soul is not immortal
 JW’S don’t fight wars
The dates set are not PROPHECY FROM THE GOV BOD.
 JW’S believe that after the bible was written there is no need for prophecy
Those are the Pentecostals that hear words of knowledge and alike, but since they don’t publish a mag 42 million per mag, no one knows just the people in the church.
So when someone speaks of JW AND PROPHETIC DATES, not true.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm
 
So, Peter,, if Armageddon dates are the only thing that JWs have got wrong, then the JWs must be right about the following:
1. Armageddon can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
2. The Crucifix is an appropriate Christian symbol.
3. The Crucifix is not a Christian symbol.
4. Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusions.
5. Jehovah forbids blood transfusions.
6. Jehovah is OK with blood transfusions so long as the blood is delivered in fractions.
7. Jehovah approves of celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
8.Jehovah forbids celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
9. True Christians will be raptured at Armageddon.
10 True Christians will not be raptured at Armageddon.
11. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1914.
12. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1935.
13. There is no restriction, datewise, on membership of the annointed.
No doubt JWs can claim to have been right about many more things than the 13 foregoing. I wonder why not everybody accepts that JWs have THE TRUTH?
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 Ray says:

 January 20, 2013 at 1:51 pm
 
There is nothing malicious or weak about your life situation respecting any cosmic mind. No force or power has duty upon you to exert more than you happily are able to desire to do.
 I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness! The concept of apostasy is: an abuse upon the human mind: a degenerate subversion of thinking per se , and an exploitation of the individual to free think their own life course ( as many, throughout the history of humanity, have happily done for a lifetime; unhindered by any mention of scripture or deferral to some other persons claim to know of a cosmic mind looking on.)
Credulity is the enemy of happiness and the slayer of reason. It is a poison to the soul.
It’s why I’m aniti theist, not just atheist. And I state this, not against humans per se, but against ALL the philosophies that are permitted access to, and usually to poison beyond reform, the amygdala of unsuspecting humans in every generation.
Yes, I utterly detest that which dresses faith as a virtue when in truth it is the most carnal of all desires to have inflicted upon any virgin mind!
Best wishes to you, long sufferer of life on Earth!
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 Emma says:

 January 21, 2013 at 12:18 am
 
Are you CURRENTLY a Witness Cedars? Answer these questions for me: What is so BAD about the organization and what it teaches? what would you do differently? It really saddens me that God practically BEGS humans to obey his commandments and live by his standards and finally, this organization does just that and of COURSE, some one (in this case Cesars) finds fault in it and tries to nit pick and find imaginary grievances…. smh @ Cesar. Makes me wonder what has happened to make you feel this way? Were you counselled for misconduct? Did you not get a position that you felt entitled to? What happened? So OK. Lets say you succeed (which is HIGHLY unlikely) in bringing the Watchtower DOWN…. Then what? You will start a religious named the Cedarslites? What’s next? Just remember brother “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”
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 Cedars says:

 January 21, 2013 at 1:03 am
 
“Are you CURRENTLY a Witness Cedars?” Yes, I am neither disfellowshipped nor disassociated – I am merely inactive.
“What is so BAD about the organization and what it teaches?” In short, it is a cult. A cult is any organization, religious or otherwise, where the teachings or instructions are potentially damaging to those who join. In the case of JWs, you have shunning of disfellowshipped family members (unscripturally), protection of pedophiles (failure to observe their crime if there is no witness), and encouragement to decline medical treatment with blood (even though the bible has nothing to say about blood transfusions). You also have 8 men leading the organization claiming to be guided by God with no objective evidence to support this claim. If all of that doesn’t raise any “warning flags” with you, go right ahead and get baptized.
“what would you do differently?” I would disband the organization.
“Makes me wonder what has happened to make you feel this way? Were you counselled for misconduct?” I woke up, as simple as that. I decided that the reasons why this COULDN’T be God’s organization were simply too many to ignore, and I decided there was therefore nothing stopping me from disobeying the Society’s instructions by doing objective research. I read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz, and it blew me away – the fact that this is just a human organization after all. I would recommend you read that book too. Here is the link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/20333975/Crisis-of-Conscience-2004-Unencrypted
“Did you not get a position that you felt entitled to? What happened?” Title or position had nothing to do with it. I was once an elder but stood down. Prior to my “awakening” it was made very clear to me that I could be an elder again if I put forth the slightest effort. I decided that I didn’t WANT to be an elder if I could see so many things wrong with the organization from the top down.
“You will start a religious named the Cedarslites? What’s next?” I have no interest in acquiring followers or starting any religion. I am only interested in helping people out of a damaging cult. If you really want to know my religious viewpoint, please read my article: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-jwsurvey-org-an-apostate-website
I hope that answers your questions.
Cedars
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 alun williams says:

 April 25, 2013 at 5:07 am
 
well said
Reply
 
 
 
 Peter says:

 January 21, 2013 at 8:37 am
 

Rowland Nelken
 So, Peter,, if Armageddon dates are the only thing that JWs have got wrong, then the JWs must be right about the following:
 1. Armageddon can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
 2. The Crucifix is an appropriate Christian symbol.
 3. The Crucifix is not a Christian symbol.
 4. Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusions.
 5. Jehovah forbids blood transfusions.
 6. Jehovah is OK with blood transfusions so long as the blood is delivered in fractions.
 7. Jehovah approves of celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
 8.Jehovah forbids celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
 9. True Christians will be raptured at Armageddon.
 10 True Christians will not be raptured at Armageddon.
 11. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1914.
 12. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1935.
 13. There is no restriction, datewise, on membership of the annointed.
 No doubt JWs can claim to have been right about many more things than the 13 foregoing. I wonder why not everybody accepts that JWs have THE TRUTH?
Rowland,
The pyramid? that was how long ago?
 dis JW teach about a pyramid?
do the research
Science also thought many things that have changed
 Do you say the same about science, the number of planets changed, are we going to dismiss science because it changes according to what it learns?
The mayoralty of what you have mentioned are dates,
 just like i said.
¿What have JW gotten wright?
 ¿any takers on that SUBJECT?
I wont list them here because i will be told i am issuing WT PROPAGANDA.
Reply
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 8:02 am
 
No Peter. You won’t list what JWs have got right because there is nothing to list. Unlike your attitude to me, I do not think you deserve an Armageddon death penalty for differing in your views and behaviour from me. You, however, have been drilled by your Brooklyn bosses to believe that I face an imminent and deserved divine murder for my failure to be unpaid mag. distributor for a global publishing and property corporation. I hope that one day you will escape the clutches of the cruel cult that dominates your existence. It may well be that the WBTS will face an avalanche of court cases in the coming years for its criminal protection of pedophiles in its ranks. It hides, as you may know, behind the Deuteronomy based 2 witness rule, in defiance of the law in every land where it operates. COurt cases will mean fines, enormous fines that your mag. purchases and unpaid labour, Peter, will not be able to meet. When property is sold, including, maybe, your own Kingdom Hall, what will you do? If you can’t generate cash for the WBTS, the WBTS will discard you. The ENd is nigh, Peter, for your misery making cult. I suggest you prepare yourself.
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 21, 2013 at 10:51 am
 
Apostasy is a misnomer! How can one know this? From the basic assertion that ones belief is unquestionable – else apostasy – amidst thousands of beliefs humans have posited such a claim about down the ages.
Hence the very concept of apostasy is clandestine tribalism snook in to appear more sophisticated as if some cosmic authority sanctioned this as claimed by who else but, you guessed it, long dead humans.
The fact that many virgin births and 12 disciples leaders, resurrection after 3 days… plus a raft of other similarities, predated Yeshua (Jesus) by thousands of years hardly disguises the fact that ALL of these were still only limited to a small fraction of the geographical Earth as we now know it. What it strikingly illustrates is the massive credulity any human mind is all too easily polluted by when limited to age old myth and fiction as if universal truth. The amygdala makes too soon an emotive bonding therein which becomes increasingly painful to contemplate the cessation of!
Hence “faith” : the misapplication of deep emotional bondings to fictional information supplied as universal knowledge.
In light of the above, apostasy becomes the liberation and disclaimer of the fiction by which one was initially deceived and deluded (emotionally hijacked).
Reply
 
 
 lost in space says:

 January 29, 2013 at 8:48 pm
 
I got baptise at 12…back in 1972. I stop going to the meetings because I did not see anything wroung with wearing a beard ,as long as it was neat and trim and clean. I was told by my brother the elder , that was not right to do. I needed to shave or suffer . because to properly represent Jehovah you must be clean shaved, or look like a worldly person. And not be look at as a productive wittness. Are you kidding me! I told him if Jehovah wanted me to shave ,why allow me to grow facial hair to begin with. Or any man . I dont think any man has that right to choose for you, even though some work places makes that policy for various reasons. Not sure why people thinks a clean face is honest and noble. I still have a problem with that. Along with beliving 1975 was dooms day. I elected to take my education for granted, since there was no need for it. After all thats what worldly people cared about not Jehovahs people. We got our education at the meetings, what really counts in life. I paid for that dearly to this day. I even recived several scolarships that my Mother turn down,cause we at that time was told not to go to college..to worldly and not needed,cause the new order was near. PLease!!! 1975 came and went,and so did I. There was also a relative of mine that was rape at the age of 12 by her stepfather .He was a ms . She got pregnant ,but was to young to carry the child. The elders never reported it, but her mother did devorce him. And he was disfellowship but reistated and remarried in the “truth” as its put. Never did a day in jail. Also shortly after that another brother in the same hall molested four girls ,ages13-15. when one of the girls told on him, He left town about 50 miles away with his wife, yes she stayed with him. he did the same thing in the new hall he went to with another lil girl. Not a day in jail, no prosecution even after repeating the samr crime. Today hes still giving public talks on Sundays. His wife still with him. He was never able to look me in the eyes after I found out. Nor did i forgive him. I wanted the family to prosecute him, and send him to jail. Of course they look at me as worldly, and that was not going to happen. the second time he got caught did not matter to them or the child he molested. WOW! And i call that my family. That family member is 40 now and still have nightmares, and no closure. Im 53 and now trying to find a true religion…There’s not any. So i depend of the bible and what it ask of me as a person to do to have favor with my creator and savior. I did go back to the hall I was raised in At 51. They treated me as if they hated that my life was good and my house was paid for…no probems living a worldly life, nice car, my own fitness club. Most of all they still was saying that same line….dont worry about having a good life here ..wait for the new order. I did confess my sins to the elders and was made an active member along with my kids joining the school for a year….but i made a mistake by reporting an elder that was selling predatory loans to the brothers, making up to 14000.00 dollars on prime lending per house as a brooker. All those who who went for the scam cause they had bad credit lost thier homes within 5 years. the elder was the presiding overseer. when they found out i was causeing a problem, they reopened my comfession case from a yeay ago ,stateing they did not form a judicial committe..they only meet with me with two elders , not three…i told them you said i was forgiven by Jehovah so you said,so whats the point of doing this again. they did it anyway and put me on restriction again. for the same sin i was forgiven for a year ago.whats the point? All seven elders knew the first decession and agreed all I had to do was to have a study with an elder in the what dose the bible teach and another book to catch up with the new light. I never return after that meeting to the hall. they came by house and said they saw a big inprovement in me after 30 days. Dispite not seeing me at the hall. and lifted the restriction. But they say they are being lead by holy spirt….yea ,and so Im I. I never went back. An elder call me and ask my problem…i said in a nut shell < that you dont need new light to report a serious crime as rape…you must and let police decide what to do. And you cant change a disipline so one that has not brought reproch on jehovah people. i never claim to be a jw my whole adult life , but have to pay to the congregation for what? He did not even have the details of all the rapes that has occured because the world want to presucute the wittnesses because of who they are..I said really..I guess PenN State is also a vitim, withholding info..A lot of people paid for that who knew …. the GB along with there followers knew too.. so welcome to the real world….Religion is a snare.. and you must be yourguide to Jesus not as a group. no one is judge or can be by a man…so they need to back off and just deliver the message. They think there elite because a man told them, he was a what..a prophet with money and a dream,and able to change the bible text and make false claims to dictate fear in people. Follow a fool, and you will bcome one. our bible is not accurate and need s a proper update by a real greek scholar. Not Barber&Russell.
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 Amazed at the sheer ignorance says:

 January 30, 2013 at 2:21 am
 
What just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best. This isn’t just based on this page, but other pages I’ve read on this website. While you’re at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children. If someone has a faith, no matter what it is, allow them to do so. Just like people put their faith in clearly corrupt governments, some people look to a god or gods to help them through. I am not promoting cults or religions that encourage things are clearly legally, morally and ethically wrong. But do you not see the world that we live in? Are you completely blind to the atrocities that go around the world and even in your own town? Are you one of these people that because of Al-Qaeda now look at any Asian wearing a turban and label them as a terrorist, not even knowing what religion they belong to? No doubt many Witnesses have done wrong, perhaps they don’t even believe in Jehovah and want to make others think all Witnesses are like that. Is that not what Al-Qaeda have managed to achieve on a vast scale? There is still a huge amount of racism and prejudice in this world and it is sickening. It disgusts me, not because I am a Jehovah’s Witness, but because I am human. People seem to find nothing better than to highlight the negatives of everything. All the news is just propaganda; newspapers don’t sell when they write about happiness and success. Failure, murderers, extremists, death, devastation among other negative things sells. Things that scare people and about other people. This only leads to more prejudice and discrimination. People are so narrow minded that they believe whatever they read and whatever they hear.
Why not think for yourselves? Why do you take everything on face value? Why not question what is being told to you? Why not be different rather than follow the crowd? From what I know JWs are told to question everything and not blindly believe what they are told. So if after they question it and they want to believe in a god called Jehovah, leave them to it. There are clearly many of you who don’t question, don’t look at both sides and just believe in any hype. You get on the hate bandwagon and ride it all the way along. Yes we have freedom of speech, but why use it to hate others? You think JWs have been brainwashed? You make me laugh. Have a good look in the mirror and consider yourselves. You are brainwashed by governments, by news, by media, by advertisements, by your family, by your peers. Everyone has an opinion and they all want you to believe it. But it is your choice what you want to believe. Get some compassion, get some humanity and stop believing in everything you hear/read. Some people do wrong, a lot of people do wrong, but I’m sure that you would not wanted to tarred with the same brush as other people, so don’t do it others. You should think about improving your own life, bettering yourself, rather than being petty and focusing on the flaws of others. Trust me, you have a heck of lot of flaws that people could write a bible about.
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 Cedars says:

 January 30, 2013 at 11:14 am
 
Hello “Amazed”
Since we are speaking candidly, you should know that there are a number of people who are “amazed” at your outlook. In fact, there is an entire discussion thread about your comment on this link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/245433/1/Apostates-are-narrow-minded-victims-of-brainwashing-who-believe-everything-they-read Feel free to set up a forum account and get involved in answering people’s reactions to your statements on that website. I personally have no time to debate with you, not least because you don’t really seem interested in debate – only attack.
I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for deleting your comment and banning you from this website with such rapidity. On reflection, as others have reminded me, it is always better for people visiting this website to see for themselves how blinkered and accusatory Watchtower apologists can be. You provide a stunning example in this regard.
Thank you for contributing to this website, despite being told not to. I hope you wake up and smell the coffee at some point, but I won’t hold my breath.
Cedars
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:25 am
 
Several commentators on here have complained about the very idea of a website which criticizes, or even challenges, the beliefs and practices of Jehovah’s WItnesses. This is absurd. Jehovah’s Witnesses, by definition, believe that all of us outside their organisation, deserve an Armageddon death penalty for refusing to believe and act as they do. Jehovah’s WItnesses are the epitome of self righteous arrogance. Their bosses achievements, over the decades, have been uniformly destructive and negative, where they have not been criminal or even murderous. I refer to pedophile protection and the blood transfusion ban when I write of crimes. We who have known the organisation from within, have a moral duty to expose this foul cult, warn the curious who may be tempted to join it, and, ultimately, to bring about the cult’s destruction.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:53 am
 
No Peter- I did not mention dates. That a JW TRUTH is long ago does not alter the fact that, coming from a JW boss, it had to be accepted as God given TRUTH, or the doubter would face Armageddon destruction. What about the flip flops on blood, Christmas and the crucifix? The only reason that you, Peter, or anyone else can remain a Jehovah’s WItness is by burying your head in the sand and ignoring facts.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 30, 2013 at 1:15 pm
 
JWs presume that all who are not of their number deserve the death penalty. A cult which does nothing but slag off the rest of humanity and looks forward to the day when its mythical obscene Jehovah creation murders the greater part of humanity, deserves nothing but exposure. It invites a campaign for its destruction. Unlike JWs, who look forward to my murder, I do not wish a violent death on individual JWs. I simply wish them release from the control of a bunch of self righteous old farts in Brooklyn (The WBTS Gov. Bod.)who have captured their minds and lives.
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 Chris says:

 January 30, 2013 at 2:05 pm
 
It always amazes me that current JW’s can never accept the fact that anyone would leave the organization with their integrity intact. Whereas the opposite is true in many cases and this self-righteous attitude comes across as the height of arrogance. I feel sad for them as I did all my wasted years truly believing what I was doing was correct.
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm
 
I left decades before the cognitive dissonance relented and I finally stopped having sympathy and subservience to various residual forms of their intellectual and emotional garbage. I will not forget the ones who got me in who were several generations into this organisation , or the humungous lies they pedaled to me which, became apparent down the line. It became incredibly obvious many are in it and don’t believe it all, yet will back stab you at a word wrongly out of place that breaches their code of totalitarian passivity they insist everyone adheres to. I detest their doctrine, in full! I will not forgive those who misled me into it and knowingly exploited whatever they could to maintain their long line of effluent. This is the only nostalgia I have of them and theirs – a sewer with a lasting stench! Good riddance to your whole system and I state it plainly, you are a parasite on all good people everywhere, not least those you mislead into your ranks to masquerade your oppressive, repressive delusional as if representative of good people. This is your cunning – trick some good folks into line and they will do the rest of your dirty work. Scumovahs Witnesses is the residue you prevail upon the unsuspecting mind! You cannot fathom how detestable your thinking is to me. Humanity would do well to be free of it! To poison the free mind into your dross is anathema to the very existence of humanity!
Reply
 
 
 Strongisland34 says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:06 pm
 
Emma;
 Where in the bible does it say that im supposed to follow after man or an organization??? God doesnt beg anyone to follow him…he stands at the door and knocks…and if you let him in than…no begging….Jesus Christ died on the cross for those that would believe….Jesus Christ is the WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE…no man or organization….Unfortunately the religion that you follow has brainwashed you into thinking that Jesus came back to the earth invisibly and picked Jehovah Witnesses, who werent even called that back when he supposedly came back. Its funny the Bible only speaks of two comings of Jesus Christ…the one that already happened when he was born of a virgin and the one that is to come…no invisibly but every man will see Him…Its time to wake up and crack open that Bible and start to see what is really being taught….You dont need a man or an organization to interpret the Bible for you….Remember Jesus left His Holy Spirit to be our Helper…not a man or an organization….The day of Pentecost is when The Holy Spirit was given to the apostles who believed….and that same gift is given to all that believe….I pray that your eyes will be opened..
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 30, 2013 at 5:08 pm
 
This might be good if in the last 200 years humans had not realised that Aborigines had been isolated from most other land areas for over 70 thousand years before even the Jews arrived with their written codes etc and even the Egyptians were not quite cutting the stone yet. So its amazing to think humans lived for tens of thousands of years without a hint of any Abrahamic ideas running planet Earth. China is another unknown in all kinds of ways. We – over here in the western regions – have still got this idea our heritage has ruled Earth since some beginning or other when in fact most of the Earth never heard of it for most of Earths history. We won’t get into fossil records yet and how many millions of years ago that went the way of earthquakes and volcanos – just like Darwin in the Galapagos that were a relatively recently formed series of islands out of the sea that then evolved their own unique features due isolation from other species.
I too was brought up having it drilled into my amygdala that love is to be put in ideas of old that I had no way of checking out. It took me the next several decades to rid myself of emotional bondage to those early tricks of mind to amygdala shenanigans.
The humans brain has ways of doing this for life – as humans used to do with the idea everything went around the Earth due the sun across the sky by day. We are too easily swayed into thinking we see how it is. Worse however is to come when we are too easily swayed into loving such ideas. The amygdala does not easily give way to reasons in the same way a young child is reluctant to let go of Santa. It al seemed so magical after all….
Anyhow, I come not to bring bad news, or to cause you pain, though the Santa years do leave a bitter taste in the senses of many children: so worse still for adults when we start to see how very impossible it is that the whole of humanity down the ages were ever even aware of what we think everyone ought to think truth – as in many religious ideas.
It leaves us in a cheated barren phase wondering what on Earth to think or worse still to feel is the point of our life. This is no fun lesson for it is a deception put on the very core of our emotions. Realising most humans who ever lived never even had such beliefs as we are having is indeed a great shock to bear and worse still to rebuild a new world view out of. It took me a painful few years to do this and worse still the feeling I could never go back and relive life in the sensible ways I am now able to think apply to all humankind. No need for the religious ideas of men from an age long gone!!!
There is a guiltless place where it’s up to us to treat each other well and no one is looking on to see we do so. It’s just up to those of us who see it as the best way to live and no need to make up stories about why. Also to oppose those low life who couldn’t care a sausage about who suffers and who doesn’t. That’s about where it’s at. A good a place as I ever got to. It makes complete sense and no guilt, obligation and fear of some unknown someone else can browbeat me, or anyone else, with.
Keep a firm hold on your own mind for many will seek to take it from you – religion et al.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 3:36 am
 
Science does not proclaim its findings as God given Truth. It is based on the principle that new evidence may overturn current assumptions. The WBTS is not. Its litany of flip flops are all introduced as absolute, Jehovah delivered, once and for all Truths, and doubters will be administered the Armageddon death penalty. The WBTS is a mental dictatorship or it is nothing. The internet, fortunately, makes life difficult for dictators of every stripe, and an internet search by any any doubting JW will soon reveal that JW TRUTH is an ever changing pack of lies based on the say so of a bunch of self appointed, self righteous old geezers in Brooklyn who make a totally unevidenced claim that they are ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned by Jesus in Matt. 24. On this outrageous claim the entire authority of the WBTS bosses is based. Peter; I have asked countless JWs for evidence to back up the ‘F and D Slave’ claim of the JW bosses. None has supplied any. The reason is simple; there is none. Do you have any?
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 31, 2013 at 6:16 am
 
What is amazing is how we have now got incredible ways to survey the skies and see how the Earth is but a minor planet going around a minor star to an extent both are undetectable on any picture of the universe. This is all good and interesting stuff! However the trouble with amygdala based information is that it resists all new findings and perspectives. For example; when we learn that the Bible itself is only a set of books that grew over many centuries in a relatively minor region of a fully inhabited globe – that carried on in totally different ways regardless – it begs the question as to what “belief” has ever been a universal “truth”. It takes not very long to see, in pure reason terms, that NEVER is the answer to this. Humans have been growing in knowledge and perspective over the millennia and as such cannot know any mind of any unknown suspect: their god!
What we do have is the residue of minds of people from far less educated and enlightened times still subduing our amygdala emotions (usually from very young) and so brainwashing our emotions with ideas we are supposed to preserve till death. Hence belief becomes not a truth per se but a perversion of brain function to be subservient to an early emotional deception. Like a bear in a cage, the longer this goes on the more the human loses all sense of alternative till their fright and flight senses defer to the cage of their pains and oppression – the only place they know and feel as familiar; the belief system they inherited or adopted.
The trouble then of course is that it is far trickier to make a new mind and emotional basis for life per se – even when the guilt obligation and fear of this imaginary god subsides. The space one is now in is quite daunting and new, uncertain and confusing. Such feelings are a cruelty on the escapee from indoctrination who have already suffered greatly the traumas of religious domination.
Learning how to learn and how to take control of ones own mind – fully – is no easy journey, but nevertheless a far greater integrity than that of the demands of our long dead ancestors and the messages they were dominated by back in their day absent all the information humans have since discovered and communicated to each other.
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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303 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 7:50 am
 
Great and informative post, Ray Owen. It sent me straight to Wikipedia and this new term ‘amygdala’. This deep retention of early years fears, a property, it appears, of this part of the brain, explains in part why it took me so long to purge my mind of the JW poison pumped in during my early years (c. 5 -14) at the Kingdom Hall. Those whose entire family are JWs and under pressure to not only get baptised, but to pioneer, must suffer far more from that cruel cult than I ever did. Sites like these provide JW victims not only with the opportunity of enlightenment about their selfish captors, the JW bosses, but also an insight into the tragic state of mind illustrated by the posts of JW true believers. They can only serve as a warning, either to steer clear of JWs, or, if already captured, to make for the Kingdom Hall exit.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 9:06 am
 
Strength to strength eh? JW growth has stalled, and with a whole queue of victims of JW pedophiles, protected by the JW org. queueing up in the courts worldwide, it is likely that the coming years will see extensive draining of JW coffers and thus, Kingdom Hall closures. Who says that JWs are God’s organisation? WHere is the evidence that the old farts in Brooklyn, the WBTS Gov. Bod. are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned in MAtt. 24? I have asked countless JWs to produce evidence of this connection, and none has been able to. There is no evidence. The JW Gov. Bod. are the ‘F and D Slave’ for no other reason than that they say they are. Without other ‘evidence’ their entire authority collapses. The ENd is Nigh, guys; the end of a corrupt and damaging Adventist splinter of a cult.
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 31, 2013 at 9:27 am
 
Thanks RN!
Yeah, its good to know part of our brains are extra responsive to emotionally generated memory input and that unlike say in a science class where each new learned fact supersedes previous ones with enthusiasm, in the case of emotionally generated inputs to the brain, new information is less welcome and most likely to be dismissed with hostility.
In a crude sense it can be seen how religious cults hyper focus on these contexts of brain information by generating holistic models ( Complete stories/ scripture about the whole world and the future and whom is running things unseen) that keep the brain going around in emotionally regenerated circles. Basically the information they conspire and cherry pick (as have all Biblical entrants down the ages) propagates servility to another’s mind/s, rather than relying on itself (ones own mind) to sieve out what it wants and does not want. Hence it then becomes a fear and guilt based function TO USE ONES OWN MIND whenever one takes in information that may be scientifically exciting but which ridicules religious precedents. For this reason the religious hierarchy seek their own preservation and power via such anti truths as bringing out the archenemy Satan as responsible for scientific findings or in fact any general good independent use of the human mind (they demand an emotive response/ defense to what really is a very interesting part of being human – the ability to discover and pass on new findings and information about us and our existence). SO religions and its network of thinking per se will only tolerate information it is able to include and adapt to as if it were all part of their “ideology” – otherwise Satan or apostacy.
Hold that idea for a moment!
The idea that if someone says something that insults a world view, no matter how true real and fact based.
We are now in the territory of the sincere individual being oppressed and rejected due having found out or learned something worth knowing simply due the other persons amygdala networked emotions being willing to die before it will accept such information and ostracising the other person for not submitting to their emotional construct. Personality disorders function this way; making constant and unquestionable emotional demands just because they feel it!
In a way it’s hardly any wonder we have so many personality disordered humans when we consider how prolific the religious mind is amongst us along with the plethora of emotionally generated power hungry delusions (scripture and their interpretation of what it demands of us) they propagate for the sakes of the hierarchy who enjoy a slave owners popularity or affluence or both – usually lifelong fringe benefits of some form or other and often multi generational for their offspring et al. If you find a long suffering hero or icon that contradicts this conclusion – it’s usually an exploitative tactic for someone who is in the ranks just below or thereabouts. Like the music industry – the one making most of the money isn’t necessarily the one standing center stage.
Like the maestro of public speaking, Christopher Hitchen’s would often confirm, skepticism is a far more honest state of the human mind – than credulity; where one takes in information unfiltered like a child in a candy store, so eagerly that the later pains of realisation further inflict the mind and emotions with a trauma that it cannot nearly so easily retreat into vomiting.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 3, 2013 at 8:03 am
 
Real believing JWs have yet to say anything meaningful in defence of their obscene little cult. Beyond protection of pedophiles, mastering the arts of cult mind control, amassing a vast property portfolio, making a false and utterly unevidenced claim about the JW bosses being the Faithful and Discreet Slave, causing unnecessary deaths through their murderous blood edicts, equipping their old boss, Rutherford with a mansion, Cadillacs and servants and steering millions away from a decent education, the WBTS has achieved nothing. Its record is a disgrace and an insult to humanity. And then there is its string of duff prophecies and countless unnecessary Armageddon nightmares and broken families through shunning. Well, JWs – what can you say in defence of your foul misery making little cult?
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 Ray Owen says:

 February 3, 2013 at 8:04 am
 
Your story is a fine collection of total confusion and mixed messages this religion screws around with your head about:
1) No law on Earth comes close to that of the JW org.
 2) Earth laws are to be kowtowed to under the umbrella of JW org advice.
 3) Never think for yourself – just try to work out an emotional and intellectual path through all the contradictory stuff you see going on – in other words act like a zombie and think like a zombie then get ready for some punishment when you get accused of being a zombie!
 4)Goto 1.
Now for your information: I can see how your head and heart has been screwed with and then you are told to go for another ride on the same carousel.
The alternative is peculiar: Leave all the people you got to know and deal with the impossible task of finding new friends who already usually have their lifelong regular associates ( can’t be done effectively); Kowtow to stuff you despise and curry favour when you can from the friend you half-have and take the joy if it exists amongst the few you know well – but remember you can never be yourself with them or relax the rules that stop you doing so else you will be back in the JW zombie courts with brown nosed elders et al ( They just love the brown; yummy to them); Do like I did and surf beliefs per se going through; pagan beliefs, eastern ideas; panentheism etc. You will find some have a great simple philosophy like do as you will but harm none, however in reality humans are full of bullshit and are full of double binds where they think they know what you think and so have the right to expect you to prove them wrong for what they suspect (kinda brown nose to their own ass kinda thinking); Then there is atheism where I got to with a hint of Robert Anton Wilsons “Who is the master who makes the grass green (because to other creatures eyes it isn’t green at all etc).” and I find there that you are on your own for the most part because often there are still loads of religious brown nose heads in your neighbourhood who think atheism is a satan incarnate (now I know who I am and what I think; which always was a pretty good mix for others since I rarely hate someone lest they keep rattling my bones on a regular habit they have – but you still can’t escape all these brown nosed regulars sticking their brains where the sun don’t shine and expecting you to do a few routines for them and their endless suspicions).
My bottom line? All the writings of man through history that pretend to know a superior mind is riding some clouds in a place nearby can go and do one; I reserve my rights to say that I know as well as anyone who ever existed whether this mind communicated to me alone and in my own solitude absent me having ever read or seen a word from another polluting my perspective on this: claiming it wants this or that from everyone as unquestionable. Hence ANY scripture is as useless to me as yesterdays weather and all those who keep on talking about it are in the same historic place. To my mind it is for humans to agree to their own humanitarian rules and to know this is what they are and these are things that might be changed from time to time and not under some putrid threat of everlasting torment which usually corrupts a human mind with very unhealthy sufferings and also often unhealthy reactions to said sufferings for all involved.
I enjoyed you sharing part of your journey with us – thank you so much! I was once in some similar difficulty. Where I am now is not necessarily a better place but it is a place more free from brown noses and my own brain collecting its share ipso facto ( I think the American Psychiatry Association refers to this as catching fleas as when a personality disordered individual gives you some of their behaviours and woes etc). I’m sure many in ALL religions are a little like the bankers who simply invest their deceptions there for fringe benefits and in reality hide the fact they don’t believe a word of it or anything like as much as you do. I grew up amongst groups who functioned like that per se; always acting friendly to outsiders and shafting them as the opportunity arose. In this respect religion is an ideal shafting vehicle, so it’s little wonder some who rise to the top are more exploitative than the sincere human can understand. If you have a mass of investors , how easy can it be to negotiate the ranks and get access to all the benefits one might desire? For those of us who spent years in the guilt and obligation mind frame it is unbelievable to learn than many never feel guilt and simply dish it out to control and manipulate others by rulings and double binds that they only kowtow to for the power it gives them. They are the ones who are judging personas and excuse all the stuff they indulge in by convincing themselves they atone for this by beating up on others – either unfairly or legitimate. PD individuals function in the same way and they really believe their own BS. This takes me back to what I said earlier: don’t quote scripture at me and not expect me to see brown all over your face!!!!!!!!!!! Some good advice the next time an elder brings out his New World Translation. I know you will be offended by this next point, though I intend none whatsoever; I NOW think and NOW feel in 100% of my psyche, of the Bible as of little value and predominantly as an outdated set of ideas of long dead men! I still hold the good treatment of each other as its only worthy message though that could be got from who we are per se. I once had no clue how I could ever lose the importance I held the Bible as – as if the only true book for all humanity. Here I am though as empirical world evidence taught me to first think differently and second to lose the painful emotional release/liberation from it all.
Best wishes to you my fellow human!
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 3, 2013 at 11:31 am
 
Several JWs have left their comments and, having failed utterly to defend their cult, have disappeared. This happens also on every Facebook page connected with JWs. What do they do when it must be clear to them that their cult and its pretensions are shown to be indefensible, and that they, (the Believing JWs) come to realise they are nothing more than pathetic dupes of a corrupt corporation which uses the threat of Armageddon annihilation in order to force yet more productivity from its unpaid labour force? Do they slink back to the Kingdom Hall and try to wipe out any doubts that their online encounters have generated? How do they square the lies and murderous inconsistencies of the organisation that has dominated their lives, with the notion that JWdom is the fount of Jehovah issued absolute TRUTH? Perhaps some JWs could explain this mystery, or maybe some recently emerged (or should I say ‘escaped’ or ‘released’ JWs) for whom the memory of this dilemma is sufficiently recent, could take us through how they dealt with the enlightenment and Kingdom Hall exit episode.
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 Ray Owen says:

 February 3, 2013 at 12:29 pm
 
Amazing that Marvel comics have an obsessive equivalence in the JW brain. Batman versus The Joker is how the whole universe ticks over. The idea there is a big goody and a big baddy! These two theatrical characters loom large in every emotion of the JW (and many a religious mind) as “Totalitarian thought submissive emotions” that will defy ALL reason and sensible discussion. The subverted mind exists and even depends upon itself now thus can only recycle the stuff it has already been hoodwinked by.
You see, any and all logic, discovery and whatever else you could think to educate a human about are totally blanked out; by the emotions of FEAR and the FOOLISHNESS of misplaced loyalty (fabricated, fiction taught love). These artificial brain constructs or imprinted emotions then form a lifetime barrier to a believer to ALL information; no matter how real, no matter how true. Like a sieve mounted on a heated mould, everything will be filtered out or squeezed to fit their universal fiction (scripture) else dumped as archenemy attacks.
In essence, the JW brain has had a historical set of monster memes (ideas that most humans down the ages have been proven to submit to) redesign their feelings and thoughts to fit its own clone production line for replication of same.
It’s practically impossible to see this if you are a fully hooked follower, still going along its conveyor belt. Ones emotions still overrides the clear thinking.
I recall a warning that I experienced at my first post baptism assembly when I went over to chat with some protestors and for the first time ever found that all this witnessing we were doing was NOT for these APOSTATES under pain of my own expulsion. Silly me having thought till then they were a bunch of freethinkers ! In fact , what a naive jerk I was and had no idea of this fact or sadly anyone around me who wasn’t full of the same.
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 Ray Owen says:

 March 8, 2013 at 2:13 am
 
Apostacy is that term used to subjugate the human mind with fear and insanity: that any ideas other than its own are evil or born of malicious intent, not only in the short term but as some universal and unquestionable rule lasting beyond ones lifetime and on down the centuries. The very idea of apostacy, as even a concept worth acknowledging, is bereft of intelligence per se. It cannot be a kindness to any human mind sincerely wanting to learn and thrive, to be told there are questions about things it must not only never ask but also subdue its sense and thoughts about due some long dead humans having already bullied this ruling into the local communities and used it down the ages to enslave people with – either by force , grooming, emotional seduction or general deviance.
So to you who shake inside with fear at the very idea an apostate mind is threatening you I say, ” Grow up, get a grip of your own mind and don’t bullshit me with all your FOG (Fear, Obligation & Guilt).
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 8, 2013 at 3:28 am
 
Excellent comment, Ray Owens. And boy, do the JWs exploit the power of that term. Dare to question Brooklyn issued JW TRUTH and it’s Armageddon annihilation for you. And when JW TRUTH changes, by order of the WBTS bosses, as it so often does, re. blood, shunning, Christmas celebrations, Jesus’s beard or whatever, are the JW bosses apostates? No, they are Jehovah’s exclusive channel of communication with earthlings. How do we know the JW Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave? Because the JW bosses tell us they are. No questions; that’s apostacy and the Armageddon death penalty.
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 Ray Owen says:

 March 8, 2013 at 6:30 am
 
One of the weirdest states of mind JW’s , not to mention many people in general, have is one of superior moral standing – as if following their own code of regulation is more highly respectable in some way. It beggars belief as to how so many people use this snake oil tactic to transplant respectability onto what are essentially lies and worse still emotionally vapid lies. Those holding belief in their lists of rulings and whatever book of historical junk they demand is “holy” are in truth bullying the rest of us with superiority feelings: making us feel obliged to feel they deserve superior respect for making up/adopting historical lies and sounding them off as if from some perfect source of universal grace. WHAT TRASH TALK and I CONDEMN IT FOR WHAT IT IS: half baked guesses by humans of long ago about things they were bereft of any real understanding and about.
This is the landfill site of historic human thought garbage we are still living under the pollution of and it seems is set to long continue unchallenged and getting away with being given totally undeserved power and kudos.
Humans who believe it are most usually the victims of monster ideas that have grown into giants most unsuspecting humans struggle to see for what they are. These BIG sets of ideas most usually do like the multinationals and high finance – browbeat the blue collar worker into kowtowing to the production line of delusions they insist is for our own good and most certainly never to be questioned: under pain of being ignored , sidelined and generally bullied out of service. Such is very much the JW community I ever knew. Brown noses with Cherry Blossom – and the higher up the more chestnut their smiles. What a load of snake oil addicts!!!
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 eyes opened says:

 April 13, 2013 at 10:40 pm
 
Maybe the first question you should ask Jehovah God is to open your eyes to the truth. There is with out question a God who sent his Son to die for us. But what boggles my mind as a former witness is why the people in the JW organization dont do some simple research and see how and why this Organization was started. If God sent his son over 2000 yrs ago why would he need Charles T Russell to come a little over a 100 yrs ago and start or restart Christianity. Do yourself a favor. Pray, ask and let the Holy Spirit guide you to all truth , which is not found in the NWT. Have you ever asked yourself why the JW’s are not allowed to research the history of the organization? What do you know about the man that started it? What do you know about his wife? Have you ever read any of her books? or have you heard her version of Charles T Russell? If you really want to know the truth then I encourage you to remove the shackles of deception and in faith step out and search for the truth. My heart was broken when I realized that the JWS was not the Truth but God in his loving mercy began to open my eyes and set free from the pain and heart break of that deception.
 I was also abused as a child by this organization yet I never blamed God only the men involved. I Love God and I have spent my Life trusting and believing Him, despite the faults of man. Its not about weather or not God will ultimately take care of the injustice of the world ( Because he will ) The question we need to ask ourselves is ” Do we live a life that imitates Christ , are we a reflection of His Love and do we live lives that bring Glory to our Heavenly Father? Can you really look at the JW organization and answer yes? Pay attention to how anyone that is not a JW is treated and pay even closer attention to how many families have been divided/destroyed. My heart goes out to you because I know that you really love God as most JW’s do. Its not even your fault. There is a master deceiver that s really responsible for the lies. I pray that you find truth and that you will have the courage to ask God to show you.
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 Ray Owen says:

 April 14, 2013 at 2:39 am
 
No there was no son of divinity ever sent. Just NO! We already know humans were in Australasia 80000 years before this Middle Eastern myth even got spread around. Suppose it were true – what took it another 1800 years to get the story over there? Just nonsense. Even a child today can send a story worldwide in seconds. Some god your hoping on right there. “Erm sorry folks my mobile takes 1800 years to get around.”
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 Goldylocksnz says:

 May 10, 2013 at 4:54 am
 
Disfellowshipping is wrong, wrong, wrong…. what is just as bad, is allowing teenagers and young people to get baptized… Jesus is our perfect example. He was baptized past the bloom of youth, in his 30’s.
 I long for the day for the big “D” doctrine to be removed!!! They will be judged themselves.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 May 10, 2013 at 5:43 am
 
Do you, Peter, understand the word ‘dates’? Murderous flip flops on blood transfusion are nothing to do with dates. Protecting pedophiles has nothing to do with dates. Unless Abraham and Isaac are going to be resurrected in San Diego in some year other than 1925, then Rutherford’s idiot prophecy in ‘Millions Now Living Will Never Die’ is nothing to do with dates either. Jehovah either approves of Christmas celebrations or he does not, no matter the date. You, Peter, have been drilled by your Theocratic Ministry School only to prey on the lost, lonely and vulnerable in your mission to ensnare others into your cruel cult. When faced with those of us who know your cult from the inside, you have nothing to say. Your cult is indefensible and you must know it. Here’s to your escape!
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 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 July 24, 2013 at 3:09 pm
 
Ray Owen January 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm said:
(And I appreciate the sentiment, empathize if not largely agree)
“I left decades before the cognitive dissonance relented and I finally stopped having sympathy and subservience to various residual forms of their intellectual and emotional garbage. I will not forget the ones who got me in who were several generations into this organisation , or the humungous lies they pedaled to me which, became apparent down the line. It became incredibly obvious many are in it and don’t believe it all, yet will back stab you at a word wrongly out of place that breaches their code of totalitarian passivity they insist everyone adheres to. I detest their doctrine, in full! I will not forgive those who misled me into it and knowingly exploited whatever they could to maintain their long line of effluent. This is the only nostalgia I have of them and theirs – a sewer with a lasting stench! Good riddance to your whole system and I state it plainly, you are a parasite on all good people everywhere, not least those you mislead into your ranks to masquerade your oppressive, repressive delusional as if representative of good people. This is your cunning – trick some good folks into line and they will do the rest of your dirty work. Scumovahs Witnesses is the residue you prevail upon the unsuspecting mind! You cannot fathom how detestable your thinking is to me. Humanity would do well to be free of it! To poison the free mind into your dross is anathema to the very existence of humanity!”
With regard however to the comments that Ray keeps coming back to regarding the Aborigines and “80,000 years being in Australia Pacifica, etc” I do recommend this link for consideration and not that I endorse everything in it or the source but the information seems solid enough that it is worth ruminating on…
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v15/n3/how-long-have-aborigines-lived-in-australia
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 Faithful Witness says:

 August 15, 2013 at 11:02 am
 
Thank you for your thoughtful response to this website. Your words give me insight into how devout JW’s are taught to think and reason. I have great respect and compassion for faithful JW’s. I almost became one myself, but have happily found myself drawn CLOSER to Jehovah and the Jesus, since recovering from the shock I felt when the true nature of this society was revealed to me. I have found peace that passes all understanding, and the abundance of the Holy Spirit in my life is evident every single day.
I have a hard time understanding why a baptized JW is more pleasing to Jehovah, than a baptized Christian like myself. What makes me an apostate, when I am serving Jehovah every day? My children have learned more BIBLE truths since we started going to a “nominal” Baptist church, than they ever did at a Kingdom Hall. Their love of Jesus comes out in spontaneous songs, the way they interact with each other and with friends, and the choices they make each day. Anyone who would take the time to speak to either of my children, would be hard-pressed to find any fault in their faith or love for Christ and the sacrifice made with His blood. Could we be better Christians? Of course! We have our own tract ministry, that is just getting started. We are not as organized as the JW’s, but our humanity and love is part of our servitude. Jesus loves us, and we know it! He is merciful and the grace we have in our lives, is proof of His divine power and existence.
As we were studying with the JW’s, they encouraged us to examine the origins of religious traditions, rituals and secular holidays, etc… I never had a problem with separating from these worldly “pagan” celebrations, if it was truly pleasing to Jehovah. When we began to examine the truth about the teachings, traditions and rituals of the JW religion, we were confronted with a shocking response from our Bible teacher.
As an honest, open-hearted servant of Christ, I simply could no longer lie to my beloved friends at the Kingdom Hall. I care too much for them, and my own relationship with Jehovah, to stumble anyone else or appear as if I am belittling their beliefs.
We (my husband, my 2 kids and I) are among the very few that I’ve come across, who walked away from the JW meetings, and have since joined another Christian congregation. We were so convinced that we were sentencing ourselves to death, that we stayed away from the “evil” church for over a year. It turns out, the pastor isn’t really a servant of satan after all… He’s not perfect like Christ, but neither is the WTBS… See any irony here? Should you Keep following them, even if they are repeatedly wrong and misleading you?
I am so grateful for the JW’s, and their knock on my door!! It is because of these wonderful people, that I found my way back to Jehovah. I have heard Jesus calling me a few times throughout my life, but it wasn’t until we started our home Bible study, that I really answered that call. Thank you, Jehovah, for a discerning and intelligent mind! Above all, thank you for helping me to see the true nature of Jesus Christ, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Host of Hosts! I will no longer deny Christ! Jesus is Lord!
Jesus paid the ransom sacrifice for the sins of all. You just have to accept this salvation, and allow Jesus to reside in your heart. You can find peace, when you acknowledge Him as your true savior. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, the life. No one gets to the father, but by me.” Jesus was not a liar, and he warned us about getting misdirected and deceived into following the false teachings of men. Nowhere in his instructions, will you find him telling you to go to an organization of men for your spiritual food. The Bible is for everyone to read… Jesus can deal directly with you on a personal level. He is that powerful! Believe in Him!
When you refuse to partake in communion or the Lord’s supper at the Memorial ceremony, you are denying Christ himself. Every person who passes that plate and refuses the partake of the bread and wine, is refusing the sacrifice Jehovah made for him. Satan is happy when the Memorial attendance numbers are reported… Look how many actively deny Christ, while pretending to serve Jehovah!
You are following the teachings, and doing your best to please Jehovah.
 Your faithfulness, and your willingness to contribute to this discussion, is commendable, and shows that you are still capable of using your own mind to make decisions.
Ask yourself: are you serving Jehovah’s will, or are you seeking Jehovah’s approval by your association with the Watchtower? The watchtower is not a god. Your instructions are in the Bible. Do not rely on books and magazines from a misguided publishing company to make decisions that concern your eternal life. We are talking about eternity here! You will have to answer for your mistakes, and unfortunately, that is going to include the number of people that you helped to mislead away from serving Christ.
If the WTBS is truly the sole channel for Jehovah, they will not fear examination. Jehovah does not make errors. He does not lie or give us false teachings (that allow people to die), and he would not direct his slave to protect men who harm children. If the WTBS refuses to answer for themselves, how are we to know if they are Jehovah’s true organization? Are they above reproach? No! They will answer to Jesus Christ, when he actually does visibly return. Everyone will see Him, and Every knee will bow and admit He is God. Will you stand in judgment for ignoring the signs that are being given to you today? Go directly to the words of Christ for your answers. He is mediator to all men who seek Him. Seek Him! Seek His counsel for yourself… You don’t need to refer to a book that reasons with you on what you’re supposed to think the Bible says.
The fact that you are reading these pages, is a sign that you are seeking the real truth about Jehovah, and how He wants your service to appear. Any true organization will be happy to have themselves examined. Beware of anyone who tries to withhold information from you, especially about themselves. There are many faithful servants of Christ, praying for you each day. I have a special compassion for JW’s, who have proven themselves to be worthy friends and associates. When the great tribulation is at hand, I hope you will find yourself on the side with Christ Jesus. Get away from the wicked one. He is lying to you through the governing body, whose conscious mission at this point, is to preserve their own positions of power by isolating JW people from the truths that are being revealed about the society itself.
Truth does not fear examination!
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 INFJ says:

 October 26, 2013 at 3:23 am
 
hear hear
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 hammar says:

 September 11, 2013 at 10:24 pm
 
To all who don’t know that the word “Jehovah” is actually a Catholic word name. From the 12th century created by a Spanish Catholic monk. It is not a Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic word that was used in the early Bibles or Testaments.
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 Mark says:

 September 21, 2013 at 8:50 am
 
My philosophy teacher told me that ‘truth is eternal…it doesn’t change’.
What always intrigued me at the KH was the excitement and anticipation when a ‘new truth’ was revealed, that automatically counteracted the existing truth. As the light was getting brighter, the new truths came thick and fast.
 My eyes were really opened when I asked an elder when the ‘new truths’ would be the ‘final truths’ and why we didn’t call it ‘current truth’. His reply that we should be grateful we aren’t taught Christendom’s lies still makes me smile today.
 Personally, I left it all behind ten years ago, having been blinded for over 25 years. And I am so so so much happier now than I have ever been.
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 KtotheRAD "Konrad" aka Kurt Hennig says:

 September 21, 2013 at 10:07 am
 
hammar says:
September 11, 2013 at 10:24 pm
“To all who don’t know that the word “Jehovah” is actually a Catholic word name. From the 12th century created by a Spanish Catholic monk. It is not a Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic word that was used in the early Bibles or Testaments”
Yes, most of us do know that the pronunciation according to the Tetragrammaton is far more likely to be something closer to Yehuwah or Yahuwah or Yeshuwah but those of us who believe, it will yet be revealed to us at the appropriate time as it is in fact that sacred…The Tetragrammaton was given as a “working name” for now…so that it could not be profaned by the likes of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society!
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 8, 2013 at 10:10 am
 
This Is apace is for all who agree with the opinions expressed, say something favorable about the witnesses and get ready to be call a troll, trolling around watchtower propaganda.
Censorship is everywhere, here too.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2013 at 10:47 am
 
Kevin Kennedy. Feel free to say something favourable about the Witnesses. I do. I love the way they have redefined TRUTH. I used to imagine it was something that was immutable and eternal. Thanks to my Theocratic Ministry School training I now realise that it is anything announced by the JW bosses. It remains true even when one announcement contradicts a previous announcement. It is wonderful to know too, that those who died for want of blood transfusions, will, when they are resurrected on a Paradise Earth, learn that subsequent generations of Witnesses were permitted to receive blood fractions. It is also thrilling to know that Jehovah will murder all those who donated those same blood fractions. I am also impressed with the evidence for the Gov. Bod’s declaration that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. The Gov. Bod. say they are and God appointed them so they must be right. I don’t get upset about all these apostates saying horrid and untrue things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Kevin Kennedy. We both have faith that Jehovah will murder the lot of them when he gets around at last to doing his Armageddon. He will also slaughter you and me, Kevin Kennedy, for reading and contributing to apostate websites. But that’s TRUTH and Jehovah’s justice for you.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 8, 2013 at 11:16 am
 
Are you crazy , say something favorable about the witnesses here? Get my head ripped off..?
The truth is in the bible, that we cant quite see it is s different story
 I joined the group that has leadership. All groups have leadership and usually people look to them for guidance, in any group, why should it be different here with the witnesses, we take the doctors word for things then things advance new things are learned, you’re going to stop treatment because they were wrong?
I doubt it very much that any of us could be more loving and Just that God Jehovah.
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 Truth says:

 October 8, 2013 at 12:12 pm
 
What is being portrayed he is nothing but lies, only absurd lies. We Christians who believe in the God of Creation are not even supposed to make comments at these sites or demonstrate and kind of response but remarks made here about Jehovah God are nothing but lies. But, we are told about satan and we know how he works so we expect this kind of torment. At least WE know what side we are one. If anyone wants to kn ow the TRUTH, JW.ORG. Thank you, Jehovah, for the wonderful life you have given me and my loving family of brothers and sisters, the only true brothers and sisters on the planet of Creation, who refuse to take up arms against anyone. Nor do we denounce our heavenly Father, Jehovah. We praise HIM for all he does for us.
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 Truth says:

 October 8, 2013 at 12:30 pm
 
Luke 23: 34 – Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2013 at 2:48 pm
 
Please point out the lies, TRUTH. We need your Jehovah issued wisdom to enlighten and save us.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2013 at 2:57 pm
 
There is someone calling him/herself TRUTH writing that there are lies on this site. He/she has not, however, explained. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and believed the Elders in my congregation when they declared that Armageddon, the great battle when Jehovah would murder all non Jehovah’s Witnesses, was due before the end of the 20th century. It did not happen. The 20th century Armageddon had, however, been presented to me as unquestionable and absolute TRUTH as it had been issued to us via Jehovah God’s exclusive earthly mouthpiece, Nathan Homer Knorr, the then President of the Watchtower Society, and thus the Faithful and Discreet Slave as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24. This TRUTH turned out to be a lie. My subsequent studies have revealed that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have a track record of duff prophecy and doctrinal flip flops, all presented as if they were the TRUTH. Please, TRUTH, we would like to know where, on this site, are the lies.
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 Louise says:

 October 8, 2013 at 7:33 pm
 
Some of the kindest most thoughtful, non judgmental, warm, generous and humane people i have met in my life are not Jehovah witnesses. They will all die though according to Jehovahs witness beliefs. It doesn’t matter that they have tried their best to help those around them and are more deserving of entering a paradise through their daily altruistic deeds than most Jehovah witnesses. It even doesn’t matter that their sole purpose for doing what they did was because they cared and they wanted to see the other person happy, even without any hope, intent or thought of gaining everlasting life. They will die because they aren’t Jehovah witnesses. If that is the way that god thinks and operates i don’t want to be there.I dont believe for a second that he is that sadistic.
Fear makes people tolerate oppression, unkindness, unfairness. It makes a decent person watch on as bad things happen to basically good people.
 What Jehovah witnesses expect from their brothers and sisters is perfection they strive for it and they are afraid to make mistakes because they might die might loose out or be shunned by everyone else who are also afraid to make mistakes.
 What this religion promotes is fear. Love has no fear.
 I have read the bible myself. Not because i was being forced to in daily bible texts but because i wanted to. It talks a lot about love and what love is. Love is forgiving love does not take account of an injury etc. I do believe that when Jehovahs witnesses look at those words they pick and chose who they should love and who they should forgive and let others dictate that for them. Dis- fellowshiping for example is not showing love it is not loving your neighbor it is taking in to account an injury it is not forgiving. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and judge not lest you be judged yourself are they not part of the bible?
 The fact is that we are all human none of us is perfect we all make mistakes. Mistakes are a huge part of learning not just what not to do but also how to feel compassion for others based on experience. Life is not black and white. We are not either good or bad. The watchtower Awake and any other literature only strive to promote segregation and fear of the very people that they are supposedly trying to reach.
 Jesus associated with thieves and murderers because he understood what i and many others do which is that sometimes the people who’ve been shown the least love are the ones who deserve and need it shown to them the most and to simply avoid and shun them will never help them.
 your actions are what will speak for you. The way you show compassion and care and love on a daily basis, not because you might have everlasting life but because your heart tells you. It isnt about indoctrinating people in to a system of rules and regulations, how many bible studies you have whether you gave a great talk whether you give loads of cash its about being who you naturally are and showing care and love and anything other than that is a misrepresentation of what the bible is about.
 The bible society can churn out new rules and new doctines and twist it all they like but their haughtiness in believing that they are the chosen ones and the most favorable in gods eyes is their very undoing. The bigoted and self righteous way they manipulate the bible to fit in with their own arrogance is to me sickening.
 I once asked my Jehovahs witness mother a question.We were talking about Jehovahs witnesses reluctance to help charities other than their own especially other religious charities. I asked If we had a tsunami and you had to help someone, who would you help? Would it be the people in your street or people in your congregation? Her answer was My brothers and sisters at the kingdom Hall. Yet god says to love your neighbor what about the good Samaritan i asked? My brothers and sisters are my neighbor i would help them first was her reply….And yet other religions do not pick and choose who they help nor base it on which religion they’re in? We are no part of this world we help one another as one family was her reply. I found her answer disturbing.
 I am not a Jehovahs Witness and for all you witnesses coldly waiting for the end to come and for me to die just know i am prepared to die for my beliefs because if god truly loves people he will not kill them for being imperfect because we were all born that way. It is not mine or anyone elses place as a fellow imperfect human to judge or reprimand anyone else. If Armageddon is coming then god is big enough himself to do his own work and who on earth do they think they are, special? For all They know the mere fact they are so ready and eager and willing to see me die whether it be on his behalf or not might be what makes him chose it to be them.
 Love is something that comes from choice it is not forced or taught it is shown in actions and being frank, i know people who are Atheists, Gay and Catholics who deserve saving more than most Jehovahs Witnesses do.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 10, 2013 at 12:26 am
 
I too was raised as a JW, i guess we as a whole had common sense, sense enough to know that humans don’t know , especially about Armageddon and when it comes.
Some people like attention, we were raised to look at the scriptures, and not to idolize people, when they said this and that we said what does the bible say, if Jesus does not not nobody knows the end of that story period.
So i or we as a whole family took that with a grain of salt, we knew what the bible said about that subject there. and when nothing happened we said there, you see. they have their mouths under their noses just like everyone else.
I learned very quickly when i was around 15 years old that they , i am talking the org, did not know all, I felt the heavenly calling started reading found out it was kinda closed, and to me at that age they were the MAX with a capital M. How can they be so wrong about this because i am not crazy, so that cause a lot of soul searching to see if i was just plain wrong or just crazy, i was neither,. they were wrong, and it was corrected, years later i will give you that but it was corrected and we all knew that that day wld come and it came. many years later i still have my hope it was no fluke. there was an article in a mag that asked DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ? .. and we asked that question many many times, in order to keep us present and awake, Bottom line you can’t believe everything you are told by human beings just like yourself
So i know not to take it so seriously.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 10, 2013 at 1:06 am
 
It’s all very obvious i don’t want to get into that specially with you, resistance is futile.
Thanks anyway
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 10, 2013 at 1:25 am
 
What, exactly, is your point, Kevin Kennedy? Do you refuse to take the JWs seriously to the extent of binning the whole fraudulent cult? Are you simply defying them on the details and their presumption of omniscience? Your post does not make that clear. As a JW you have to believe the lot, no matter how absurd or contradictory or it’s an Armageddon zapping for you.
According to the Bible and Koran the End was due within the lifetime of the Disciples, St. Paul or Mahomet. Take your pick. It is as well not to take the Bible, Koran or any other man made book too seriously, especially if the writers pretend their book comes from God. Please try and explain your self with some clarity, Kevin Kennedy.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 10, 2013 at 11:12 am
 
We shall never know, it seems, what it was that ‘Truth’ and Kevin Kennedy thought they were on about. An unsubstantiated declaration and some meandering waffle convey nothing beyond the image of a muddle headed writer.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 12:04 am
 
Fraudulent cult, no i don’t think so, Defying them no.
 i have no need to defy them, i simply choose to have things make sense and usually what doesn’t make sense is not true.
And i don’t have to believe anything i don’t choose to, interesting that you don’t even believe in the bible, and like many here are trigger happy with the witnesses.
I like the group, enjoy being with them, love the teachings, the principles. i am not going to go on because of obvious reasons suffice to say that i am very happy.
It’s sorta like a woman, or a man, you break up.. as long as you have ill will or are overly concerned with that person they’ve GOT YOU!
 kinda the same thing happens with the organization, the fact that people dedicate entire pages to critique the WATCHTOWER ORG speaks volumes,
 Think you left the jw’s behind? think again, it is present with you always, as long as you are consumed with this subject you are a slave to the WATCHTOWER ORG.
You know when you are really over a gal? when you simple don’t care any more. the same applies here.
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 Truth says:

 October 11, 2013 at 4:21 am
 
The “blind” cannot see, the “deaf” cannot hear, the “heartless” cannot feel. How could you possibly be enlightened? Get behind me, satan.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 5:20 am
 
So, Kevin Kennedy. You are at ease with looking forward to Armageddon day when Jehovah murders the greater part of the human race for the refusal to believe and obey every diktat issued by the JW bosses. Where there is evil it should be exposed and brought to an end. That is why victims of Roman Catholic priestly pedophilia have worked for years to expose the crimes and bring the criminals to justice. That is why the hunt for Nazi war criminals continued for decades after WW2. It would be utterly irresponsible, knowing the misery and death caused by the repulsive JW cult, not to work towards its exposure and destruction. That you are seemingly content with hanging out in a disgusting and murderous outfit is utterly shocking. That you do not believe, even, every bit of ever changing doctrine spouted by your bosses means that they look forward to the day God murders you. To value an outfit that wishes you murdered suggests a very peculiar mindset indeed.
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 Faithful Witness says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:24 am
 
Kevin, I agree with your advice about letting a past relationship keep hold on your life. I walked away from the JW’s and didn’t look back. I was not baptized, so it only hurt a little bit to break up with “friends” who only loved me when I went to meetings.
A problem arose, when my JW family started punishing me and my innocent children, simply because we had decided not to join the org with them. Our once big happy family, has become divided. This sad situation has sucked me back in!
I wish I could walk away and not look back, but God has forced me to make another u-turn and reach out for my parents, sister and most importantly, my niece and nephew, who are being forced into this. They have been ripped from our family and taught twisted things about their cousins. My nephew actually thinks we worship satan.
I agree that we should not let the WTS have any importance in our lives now. Until they release their grips on my family and the innocent children inside, I can not, as a believer in Christ, turn my back anymore. I love my JW family, despite what they are probably saying about me to their kids, after every meeting. The “us vs. them” doctrine is a scare tactic that they are using to control people. I hope your family is intact.
I’m glad you are happy as a JW. If it gives you peace and fulfillment, there is no reason for anyone to try to stop you from believing what you want. You were created with free will and the capability to make decisions for yourself. I wish you all the best, but try to be a little more compassionate. Jesus was. Are you familiar with the parable of the Good Samaritan?
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 8:03 am
 
‘I’m glad you are happy as a JW. If it gives you peace and fulfillment, there is no reason for anyone to try to stop you from believing what you want. ‘ said Faithful Witness of Kevon Jackson.
Are you serious? Jackson’s beliefs are the cause of your split family and heartache. Beliefs not acted upon may be harmless. But JW beliefs are acted upon, and are cruel in the case of shunning, and murderous in the case of blood transfusion. Those of us who know the evils of this cult have a duty to stop the spread of these poisonous and damaging beliefs.
If we followed the advice of Faithful Witness, however, we would write the following; ‘Well he belongs to Al Quaedr and the God issued command to engage in Jihad. If he wants to murder infidels, well that’s his belief’ or ‘ He likes to lynch negroes, but then he belongs to the Ku Klux Klan and those are his beliefs and that’s his business’. Or what about; ‘He’s a really dedicated Nazi and his beliefs demand that he work for the extermination of the Jews, Gays and Gypsies’.
No, Faithful Witness, where ‘beliefs’ as disgusting and damaging as those of the Ku Klux Klan, Al Quaedr, the JWs and Nazis are concerned, those of us who know about the evils of these organisations have a duty to expose them and campaign for their dissolution.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 8:13 am
 
‘You know when you are really over a gal? when you simple don’t care any more. the same applies here.’ wrote Kevin Jackson.
Do you really expect to be taken seriously? How many people have ex girlfriends who are responsible for thousands of deaths due to refusal of blood transfusion? How many ex girlfriends have left a global trail of split families through shunning in their wake? How many ex girlfriends have manipulated millions, through the dark arts of cult mind control, and convinced them that they are God’s appointed and that their every word must be obeyed on pain of death at Armageddon? How many ex girlfriends have caused millions of lives to be wasted through edicts about higher education, and left otherwise capable people to be exploited as unpaid mag. pushers for a global property corporation? My analogy with Nazi hunters is valid. Your analogy with ex girlfriends displays the mind rot needed to remain as a faithful member of a cruel mind control cult.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 11, 2013 at 9:40 am
 
Rowland,
 Take a breath. This isn’t a war. I appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with some of what you said.
 I beg to differ. Kevin is a grown man, and actually is entitled to an opinion, and so are you, and me too. Everyone should be accountable for their own actions, whether they be shunning or accepting your family members, blindly following a false prophet because it feels good, or judging and using an anonymous forum to vent your frustrations on someone you don’t know anything about. Forgiveness goes a long way.
Judgment is not ours. Be compassionate. I think if he looks inside himself, Kevin will find he is missing something. There is no real peace for JW’s. But each has to make that decision for themselves. This is not a peaceful or loving religion, but if everyone around you is claiming to have peace, you believe it. He has never been out, and I commend him for looking at this website in the first place. He is examining the truth, whether he realizes it or not.
I find this website to be an expression of one man’s opinions, which I highly value. Cedars makes good observations. Are they complete and always in agreement with my personal beliefs? No. I am still willing to read and consider his viewpoint, since his life and exposure to this invasive group is much different than mine. We both have family we love, trapped inside the tower. This simple fact makes me keep tabs on what is happening with the JW’s.
As far as I know, there is not yet a member of the governing body posting comments here. We are all mere humans. I’m sorry if I offended you.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 9:51 am
 
Thanks for your thoughtful comment, Faithful Witness. Of course we are ‘entitled’ to an opinion. No law on earth, nor power of enforcement, can change what is inside our heads. If, however, those opinions are damaging and dangerous (like those of Nazis, Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Ku Klux Klan and Al Quaedr), those of us who are aware of the damage and danger have a duty to educate and, if possible, alter those opinions before they lead to lynchings, gassings, deaths through refusal of blood or car bombs. I am not happy that Kevin, or anyone else, is content through having been lulled into believing self righteous fantasies about surviving Armageddon to live on a Paradise Earth after God has murdered the rest of us. I too, hope that Kevin, and the 7 million other JWs, are released from the bondage of that malign cult. The campaign can work, both by informing rank and file JWs of their pitiable condition as unpaid mag. distributors for a global publishing and property corporation, as well as by chasing the bosses through the courts and hitting the organisation where it hurts, in the pocket.
Reply
 
 
 Gypsy Sam says:

 October 11, 2013 at 10:13 am
 
People have to awaken on their own and start having real questions that they want answered. Last year I had to answer where was the money coming from for Watchtower to pay out millions on the Candace Conti case…why was I constantly seeing JW’s act more uncaring about others, making comments on facebook to insult other religions, being excited about earthquakes and expressing no sorrow for lost lives at all…reconnecting with childhood JW friends that had left on their own accord because they discovered TTATT, yet being emotionally blackmailed by their families who will only love or accept them if they do it the WT way (not according to the actual Bible, or Jesus example of mercy)…why aren’t children abused by other JW’s and rape victims shown love in the congregation…
All this led me to this survey, which I am very grateful to Cedars for caring enough to make a difference.
 JW’s are awakening and it is beautiful to see some start to have a mind that is working and heart that is now unselfish and caring to all (not just those in their bubble of conformity).
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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303 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Faithful Witness says:

 October 11, 2013 at 10:31 am
 
I agree with your mission of exposing and righting wrong, but the message has to be heard, if it is to make a difference. I find people are more likely to listen when you whisper, than when you yell.
 BTW, yelling at your computer screen itself, sometimes actually feels better than trying to put your passion for a cause in writing. Most people reading these comments will not hear you, either way. 😉
Kevin, keep examining the facts, and decide for yourself. The truth is out there.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 6:25 pm
 
Rowland,
 When people become witnesses they know what they are getting into. not all family member are going to be happy specially when they start to see the changes people make.
Your comments are great for this site, very dramatic, i’ll get a tissue, wait….
Loose the drama, millions of families fave been happy serving for years, there is another side to this story, millions of other stories happy stories.
In my view it is my humble opinion that a person who lets an org a person control their mind is week, so maybe that’s the problem.
You just switch from one mind control to another, but they both are unhealthy relationships, these types of people need to jump on a cause. before they were for and now they are against.
Look at all the people that have a higher education today. local college of trade is much better than years of debt and no job to pay.
No one has been exploited. it’s called being on of Jehovah’s Witnesses. altruism.
No mind control here, I need my wonderful powerful mind to judge and evaluate, i don’t swallow everything i am told.
Do you believe everything you read and are told?
 I don’t, my family doesn’t, we don’t accept things just because of who said it /exception BIBLE.
Apparently you don’t need a mind either to be stuck in time, with all that negative energy complaining about people that are happily living their lives with no thought to you’re daily objections to them.
 Back to the significant other-☼As long as you care, yr hooked.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm
 
I wish you and all who read me the best, from the bottom of my heart.
Parents are responsible for their children, a parent must have a grip on their children in order to protect them and shield them from harm.
People who are not Witnesses have a very different life, as you well know. Jw try to keep their children’s mind occupied with spiritual things, now you still believe in Christ Christendom style which is a theological topic which is not allowed here, but keep in mind that this God has 2 others just like him. that’s why the little nephew thinks that you worship you know who.
People look to associate with people who have similar interest, in order to bond but if you don’t have anything in common it’s kinda hard to work with that there.
But i do put myself in yr place/shoes and do understand.
 The children are being taken care of, they are being tough good things, so don’t worry about them.
Wish you all the best.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:10 pm
 
Rowland
 I am at ease with looking forward to Armageddon day when Jehovah destroys the greater part of the human race for the refusal to believe.
I cant wait!
a wonderful loving organized group is warning people today before it happens so watch out, God ‘ll get cha for that as Maude Findley wld say.
Change is Good without change we wld still be without anesthesia.
 change in doctrine specially good, it means things are alive, anything that does not change is dead, look at the churches.
No body looks forward to the day when God murders me, are you crazy? That might be the thinking of the group you hang with, but my brothers admire me and love me because i am a wonderful beautiful person.
It’s like they take you into the back room of the hall and torture you until you tell them that you don’t believe every single word that comes from an imperfect human being. you may be right but i don’t think so, this is the real world, come outta that fantasy in ye head.
I’s mind control, look out!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:20 pm
 
Wrong again, Kevin. I was 5 years old when first taken to the Kingdom Hall. I had no armoury of reason to combat JW murderous filth. It was not my decision to be subjected to JW horrors.
So, Kevin, if you imagine you choose to believe or disbelieve whatever the JW bosses spout, then, according to them you are dead meat. Jehovah will zap you at Armageddon. If, however, you are a content, happy and fulfilled true believer then you have to believe the lot, as issued by God’s exclusive earthly rep. since Day 1 in 1879.
So, Kevin – you, if you really are a true JW, believe this little lot:
Jehovah’s plan can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
 Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusion: Pre 1945.
 Jehovah will murder anyone who has a blood transfusion: post 1945.
 Jehovah is OK with blood fractions but will murder you if you donate any blood from which fractions are taken: 21st century.
 Jehovah approves of Christmas celebrations: pre 1925.
 Jehovah will murder you if you celebrate Christmas: post 1925.
 The Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave as referred to by Jesus in Matt. 24.
 Armageddon will occur in 1914, 1925, 1941, 1975 and before the death of the 1914 generation.
If you are a JW you have to believe all the above, or Jehovah will murder you. Maybe you doubt some of them. If you do, Jehovah will murder you.
If you do believe all the above, presumably you are at ease and fulfilled with the idea that Jehovah will murder anyone who doubts.
You are a tragic victim of cult mind control; an unpaid mag. pusher for a global publishing and property corporation. So many nominal JWs write anonymously to JW Facebook pages to explain that they only keep up appearances of true belief in order not to lose their family through shunning.
Pre internet those of us who left the JWs were met with bewilderment when we explained our detestation of our erstwhile Alma Mater. JW PR was successful in presenting its image of polite and well dressed religious enthusiasts. Those days are over. Ex JWs are now organised. AAWA (go google) will not cease its campaign until your cult has abandoned its damaging practices of shunning, of its ban on blood transfusion, its protection of pedophiles and its terrorising of young minds with its Armageddon fantasies.
It should not be too much of a leap for JWdom to radically change its tune. Its grubby little history is a litany of doctrinal flip flops. If reform means curtains for your cult, so much the better. Get used, Kevin to the idea of life without a Kingdom Hall.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:26 pm
 
Change is, of course, good. Truth, however does not change. JW TRUTH is of a different order. It is anything and everything spouted by the JW bosses.
I note, Kevin, that you have swallowed the JW nonsense that your little late 19th century Adventist spinoff sect is no part of Christendom. JWs are part of Christendom, a singularly ugly little part. JWs are also part of the world, one of its worst aspects.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 11:05 pm
 
Dispute an edict or diktat issued by your New York bosses, Kevin, and you will be excommunicated from your little fringe church of Christendom and shunned by all those who now profess to love you. Why should anyone believe the stuff spouted by a bunch of old men in New York who claim, with zero evidence, that they are God’s exclusive earthly rep.? Do you, Kevin, have any evidence to connect the JW bosses with the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ of Matthew 24? I have asked dozens of JWs for evidence. None has supplied any. The reason is simple. There is no evidence. And the track record of these would be spouters of TRUTH? Duff prophecy, doctrinal flip flops, deaths through refusal of blood, protection of pedophiles, lost educational opportunities and split families through shunning. And you, Kevin Kennedy, expect people to believe and follow your organisation. The skids are under your outfit now. Wait for the string of child abuse cover up cases to hit the headlines. The fraudulent nature of your grubby little fringe cult of Christendom will be common knowledge. The dropout rate of born in JWs is already, at c. 66%, the biggest in Christendom. This can only increase. The size and determination of the group determined to smash the Watchtower can only grow. Get used to the idea of a world where the JWs follow the Buchanites, the 5th Monarchy Men, the Millerites, Taborites and Joachimites into the graveyard of CHristendom’s apocalyptic loony groups.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 12, 2013 at 1:17 am
 
I am not there to dispute or argue, when if that day ever comes I’m outta there that’s all, Try to take control of any group causing division and you most probably will be canned.
Shunned but loved, you punish yr children so then can feel the difference and take note. i don’t believe in the old men you are referring to. But what i have learned so far is right on!
You asked me what i believe and i will tell you, the faithful slave is connected to Jehovah’s witnesses, the truth about what the bible teaches jw have it down.
The thinking out loud and the conjectures of Humans to not negate the facts. i am not going to list the differences between the warring churches and the Christians
 about the churches and the command to not be part of the world
Can you tell a Christendom Cristian from a non believer, no you cant, but you can spot a jw a mile away.
You need some kind of evidence the JW teach the truth from the bible?
I am not going to suggest the obvious.
The difference is starring you in the face u just cant see it.
The biggest thing for me was the a political view of the witnesses bible based for sure.
The doctrinal flip flops have had to do with time periods. the same things happens in science and everywhere people keep learning and we can never know too much specially about Jehovah GOD
The deaths for refusing to disobey God specially when yr close to death, when yr dying that’s not the time to start ignoring God’s law and today blood transfusions are considered old school. who whats someone elses waist pulsing through yr cells. blood is special only made for that person don’t touch it, leave it alone.
Pedophiles are everywhere gotta watch the kids at all times don’t trust anyone period, and if anyone touches my kids they have a problem with me if find out about it first, that unfortunately is part of the degradation this wrld is going through before it is destroyed glory hallelujah! oh Glory!
Drop out rate you say, answer not true, how can you know that, unless yr the long island medium.
Don’t hate, congratulate.
And you tell me there is a big growing group who’s sole purpose in life is to destroy the wt? pretty sad don’t u think to be wasting all that energy on something so negative as destroying the wt, you thing they will succeed? i don’t think so.
Listen if Hitler and Fidel were not able to get rid of JW’S no mickey mouse group will either.
Listen mr, the witnesses have been without the WATCHTOWER decades in some countries and when the vail is lifted the amount of people that study and meet with the witnesses is impressive. so we need Jesus that’s all we need. it seems that the more people persecute these winners the better they get.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 12, 2013 at 1:54 am
 
of course truth changes, we thought the world was flat for us that was the truth at that time.
We cant walk in space for us that was the truth at one time
 So the truth changes as we are prepared to assimilate it in time. that will be 50 dollars.
The truth is the information that we have about any given subject at that time.
I don’t swallow the nonsense repeated by you about the witnesses, and what ever names you wish to call them in a demeaning fashion. That is a desperate attempt to be mean spirited and hateful, good luck with that there.
Jw are very different and are no part of the churches of today that call themselves followers of Christ.
Gotta clean out the world to make way for the few the proud the worshipers of JEHOVAH! a small group but a rowdy one.
Life without kingdom hall is the way i grew up my friend.
We meet anywhere and everywhere even in the nazi concentration camps the witnesses that were there meet and had worship right there under the guards noses.
You Guys seem to think that Christians are wimps, were rough and were tough, and we are rugged. air conditioning ans actual seats to sit on please!
we meat in the swamp in the dark.
 Magazine WATCHTOWER
rarely seen, but many bible study and a lot of attendance at the clandestine meetings
What else, i am mind controlled, that is because i don’t agree if i were to agree then you wld be controlling my beautiful precious mind.
And Just because we worship God in peace and preach the good news to others you hate me, how could you hate me? nobody hates the big K,
Listed ROLND, chill, relax.
 The watchtower really did a number on you child!
There are great mental health providers that can help you with that watchtower issue that you have there.
Must be pretty uncomfortable having to write down and relive all that negativity but you seem to enjoy the emotional pain reliving it time after time, judging it, discussing it tarring it apart, turning it around in yr head day after day, after day, thinking of the next posting, because you got something you just gotta say and answer back. obsession is a perfume.
Go to sleep relax pay to JAH
 i’ll party i mean pray for you
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 October 12, 2013 at 4:18 am
 
We are not out to get rid of witnesses. I don’t want to see any witness harmed or impeded in their worship.
I want to see healthy debate. I want to see a leadership that takes reasonable and morally helpful decisions.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 12, 2013 at 5:43 am
 
I’m sure you have heard, “you will know them by their fruits…”
This has many applications and applies to everyone. One question for you, the same as I asked my mom:
 How many new baptized members do you have in your congregation, as a result of the house to house ministry? How many service hours does your congregation report each month?
 I would like to suggest that the field ministry work you are doing, is almost fruitless. It is busy work, behavior control. I know you are doing this at your own free will, but have you ever considered that there might be a better way to serve the master? If you are a follower of Christ, you should be his servant and serving the least of his brothers. He never said only serve JW’s… He instructed his sheep to feed the hungry and help the poor.
With that said, I want to express my appreciation for your heartfelt expressions here. You are clearly a devout JW. Your thoughts and opinions do matter.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 12, 2013 at 6:23 am
 
Kevin. Youyr state of mind is desperate. Yes, there are pedophiles in every walk of life. JWdom, however, is unique in that it uses the Bible, with its 2 Witness rule, to protect them.
You clearly do not understand the doctrine of JWdom. According to your bosses the only route to salvation is through the Faithful and Discreet Slave, the old geezers in New York. If you do not accept their authority as absolute then you are an apostate and, although I wish you health and happiness, your JW bosses look forward to the day God murders you at Armageddon.
 Yes, many scientific theories change. But JW TRUTHS are presented as immutable, God given and absolute. The JW TRUTHS you have to believe, on pain of Armageddon execution today, may be binned by your New York bosses tomorrow. Had you received blood fractions in the 1950s that would have merited an Armageddon zapping (at an Armageddon due before the end of last century incidentally!).
 You are also, Kevin, defying the JW bosses by engaging with apostates. You do not seem to realise that you have elected to belong to an absolute dictatorship of the mind. Loads of cults and sects have come and gone in Christendom. Your little Adventist spinoff’s days are numbered.
When there is a threat to human happiness, or indeed to human life, those who know of the threat have a duty to fight it. That threat may come from terrorists, disease, malign religious cults or criminals. The Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses mean business. The WTBTS has got loads of money, certainly and can buy expensive lawyers. Along with the dark arts of cult mind control have come the techniques for exploiting a gullible unpaid mag. distribution labour force. If the Candace Conti fine is exemplary, then a series of convictions could make a serious dent in JW finances. Recruitment outside Africa has stalled. When the cash dries up the WBTS will go into liquidation. Bring on that happy day!
It is interesting to note that you, Kevin, have given no evidence for any of the ever changing TRUTHS spouted by your bosses. I have listed a number of absurd pronouncements. You have listed no positive JW achievements or insights whatever. There is a simple reason for that. There are none.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm
 
Excelsior: I agree! I would like JW’s to be able to express their opinions and speak their minds, like anyone else. They should be allowed to form their own opinions and maybe even their own beliefs! Independent thoughts from a JW, would be most refreshing. I hope that any thinking JW will take the few minutes to complete the anonymous survey, which is the purpose of this site… Giving the JW’s a voice! http://www.jwsurvey.org
 No one has to know you were here… Your thoughts do matter, even if you’re not allowed to doubt out loud.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 4:43 am
 
We at AAWA, the Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses owe a debt of gratitude to Kevin Kennedy. His posts are a ghastly illustration of the mental damage wrought by the behaviour of the Watchtower Society. He has confirmed, in his comment above, that he looks forward to the Day of Armageddon when his God will murder the greater part of the human race, for the refusal to follow, blindly and absolutely, every diktat issued by the Gov. Bod. of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
These 8 self appointed, controlling, arrogant and money grabbing old men head an outfit which has the following ‘achievements’ to its credit (debit?):
1. It is responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths, including those of children, for its ban on blood transfusion.
2. It has a Bible based policy for protecting pedophiles.
3. It has caused thousands of families to be irrevocably split due to its edicts on shunning.
4. It is the cause of countless Armageddon filled nightmares.
5. It has a issued a series of duff prophecies.
6. It associated with the United Nations, which it had condemned as the Whore of Babylon, before its cover was blown.
I have asked many JWs to list the positive achievements of their cult. There have been none forthcoming.
Kevin Kennedy genuinely believes that the majority of humanity deserve the death penalty for not following blindly every pronouncement of the leaders of this obscene and hideous outfit. Like other JWs, he can name no positive achievements of the misery making corporation to which he has sacrificed his life.
 Ultimately, Kevin Kennedy, I wish you well; I wish you freedom from the clutches of the criminal old geezers in New York. Rest assured, however, that your pronouncements in the meantime are of great service to the movement that looks forward to, and is working towards, your cult’s implosion.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 10:09 am
 
Rowland,
You seem to be under the wrong impression.
 The watchtower was established disseminate Jehovah God’s message mainly in print.
We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body,
►they have their mouths right under their nose just like everybody else. they are not profits and we all know that, JW don’t believe in modern day prophecies
Due to this wonderful selfless work, directed by the angels of Jah many people have become literate.
They have been freed from the fear of the dead, the fear of burning in hell and now are free to worship Jah.
When the WATCHTOWER PRESSES, Go Bankrupt, and or are destroyed by Rowland’s group of people will the witnesses disappear
 -OH HAPPY DAY FOR ROWLAND!?
 not so fast.
Picture iT WALKILL 2099, The Watchtower edifice is Gone!
 The printing pressed are silent, a mouse urinating on a cotton ball can be heard. To witnesses meet secretly, one has a copy of the bible, the other ink for the home pressed now being used in local neighborhoods, the work of Jehovah’s witnesses have gone underground.
But danger lurks all around the people who used to write about a HAPPY DAY without the WITNESSES have actually organized into bands of armed men and women who are busy dragging witnesses family out of their homes and making an example of the in front of the public at large. The meetings are still held and the preaching still goes on, the memorial is still held every year.
Is this a fantasy? this would never happen in the good old us of a , ah but it has happened, it happened in here in the US OF A-.
And ROWLAND , my friend here you are proposing to exterminate the JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES once more just like it happened in the past.
We don’t depend on a governing Body or printing presses
 we depend on Christ.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 11:09 am
 
Thank you for confirming, Kevin Kennedy, the points I have been making. Your bosses repeat over the years that they and their organisation are the only route to salvation, the only channel to God. You clearly do not believe a fundamental tenet of your cult. You are desperate to imagine you are a free agent. Your bosses tell you the organisation is indispensable; you declare you can do without it.http://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/quotes-regarding-watchtower-organization-and-salvation
Either way, whichever is describing the real situation, you have given no reason why anyone should want anything to do with an outfit whose soul effects have been unnecessary deaths from refusal of blood, a string of duff prophecies, wasted lives through the disapproval of education and split families through shunning. You have, in your many and lengthy posts, not only failed to answer any criticisms, but have failed to offer any reason why anyone should want anything to do with an outfit whose record is disgraceful, negative, misery making and murderous.
Quite possibly, as you point out, the end of the JW org. may not be the end of the history of Christendom’s apocalyptic lunacy. Adventists, after all, regrouped after the Millerites dispersed, and the JWs and the David Koresh gang broke away from the Adventists. The 5th Monarchy Men were not the last group of English apocalyptic wackoes. We can only hope that, in time, the whole cruel nonsense will go the way of armed crusades, witch and heretic burning and the other monstrosities that litter the history of Christendom.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 13, 2013 at 11:21 am
 
Kevin said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” you have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 11:52 am
 
Rowland
Life isn’t black or white,
 You want to pigeonhole me into a box to accommodate you and yr distorted view of the witnesses.
The only way to salvation is doing Gods will and JW’S are doing it.
 so it is best to be with those.
You are desperate to discredit anything that is true, i declare we had done without the organization as you think as you see. but we are still with you.
One wants to be with this group specially for the things you point out.
they adhere to Gods written law of Blood.
 They don’t allow corruption to infiltrate the Cong.
 People who violate God’s law and refuse to correct this after many chances are expelled, again bible based. but we cant discuss that because number one you don’t care about that we do and secondly it’s against the rules of this site.
The prophecy’s you talk about era imagenery in yr head.
 yr just mindlessly repeating what you read.
►ROWLAND Just to let you in on something you probably do not know . They don’t believe in prophets today, and they have stated this in the literature.
so we got rid of one misunderstanding now, so now you know this that you dis not know before. lets see what else
I do not have to give reasons why should be with an outfit such as this as you say, the purpose here is to give reasons why you shouldn’t and i will dispel them and tell you the real truth about things.
Every time you say an untruth I’ll be there to correct you.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 12:01 pm
 
Faithful Witness says:
 October 13, 2013 at 11:21 am
Kevin said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” you have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
______________
Sure i dont know the level of knowledge that you have on the jw’s i will elaborate, since 1935 JW’S came to understand more clearly that not all go to heaven, so they thought or put out there in the mags and books that the number was complete and no more anointed were being chosen for heaven.
One of the GB when on to say in the WATCHTOWER,
“NO MORE INCORPORATION”
According to what you would have US believe, it would be unthinkable that one of Jehovah’s witnesses would do something the GB has said you dont need to do.
So now new memorial partakers!!!!
 is that what happened?
look at the statistics…
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 12:51 pm
 
Thank you, Kevin Kennedy for failing to address a single point I made and thus demonstrating yet again the tragic state of mind of a true believing JW.
You mentioned Jehovah’s Law of blood. Can you tell me why Jehovah keeps changing his mind on this law?
Why does a pure congregation take special care, using a verse from Deuteronomy, to protect pedophiles within its ranks?
I attended the Kingdom Hall regularly in the 1950s and was assured that the 1914 generation would not pass before the advent of Armageddon.
It is clear, that you not only choose to defy your New York bosses, but you have very little idea about what it is JWdom actually stands for. Presumably you just drift along there out of habit and enjoy the feeling of superiority.
I do not expect any answers with information or reasoned argument. You have demonstrated that of both you are incapable. Doorstep preaching is pretty ineffectual even when conducted by the articulate. It is some consolation that your rambling drivel is highly unlikely to ensnare anyone into your cult. My thanks to you once again for providing a public demonstration of the tragic state of mind of a JW true (or maybe untrue) believer.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 1:27 pm
 
Rowland,
My boss is not in ny, they moved to walkill,.. no just kidding, he’s up in the sky above watching you so look out!
First let me correct you again because yr unbelievably confused. number one, our dear beloved brothers who compose our beloved and respected governing body, as holy as you might think they are, there not JEHOVAH.
And about pedophiles, let’s clear up one more thing so pay attention, If you were informed of, or if you caught some one in the act of molesting abusing yr child, you would calmly call the elders, have them set up a meeting with you and, are you kidding me? for real!!!
Hey Guys wake up!! the congregation has little to do with this, this is s legal matter. if later the matter is addressed by the elders i really dont care personally if i was in that case God help me.
Remember that the elders children are also at risk of molestation, and it’s not just one elder, in many cases there are 8 elders in a congregation, whole families are at risk from this predator so take that into account when you accuse them of protecting such and such.
If you believed that before any date in time the end wld come, yr mind is week and foolish this is not what you have learned from the boss upstairs in heaven, actually it is just the contrary, so look upon it as a test that you failed miserably.
I have constantly demonstrated that you are not acting in good faith in these discussions, get ready to be challenged by this humble servant of yours and Christ in the stamens that you make that are false.
Don’t Get mad because i showed you up- Rowland
 Yr idea of a discussion dis not go yr way because i speak the truth fairly, i recognize the things that have gone wrong as far as dates just like it has been recognized in print.
I recognize that the disfellowshiping is very heart breaking, any sin breaks families.
If you don’t agree with the teachings of this group leave it’s that simple, you dont even have to be disfelloowshiped do it yr self, stop doing what they do.
Go with some dignity that it.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 13, 2013 at 5:47 pm
 
Kevin, you are being misled.
 You said, “The only way to salvation is doing Gods will and JW’S are doing it.
 so it is best to be with those.”
Who told you that?
Reply
 
 
 DJ says:

 October 13, 2013 at 7:08 pm
 
Do all Jehovah Witnesses Blackmale and Threaten young Children .That God will hate them
 My oldest grandson found a toy in Kitimat BC Kingdom Hall .That another parent brought along for their young child to play with .My Grandson found it played with it a bit . My Daughter Boyfriends adopted so called mother .Told my oldest grandson .Who is Autism .That GOD will HATE HIM ..It was my grandson who really wanted to go to Church .Now after this woman said this to him .He has never went back to this Kingdom Hall .Nor does he want anything to do with this woman .
 Please keep in mind I am a Christian Woman .Our Bodies are God’s Temples and Our Hearts should be God’s Church .Jesus tell us all To love one another .God gave us all the same 10 rules to OBEY HIM
 This women I tell you about .Has also tried hard to steel both my Daughters boys .and wants my Daughter to give her child to her adopted Daughter yet tell my Daughters youngest boy ..( quoting my grandson words here .This 1 is only 5 years old – He told his mom .You are not my real mom .Gramma is my real mom .And I only have to list to her and dad .) Yet this woman is Jehovah Witnesses .Claims she has never had SEX with her Husband .So how sick is this ? Huh is these the kicks of sick things you practice on little peoples heads and Brain washing them .GOD”S Wrath will give this woman night mares and others too if this is being done to young ones .For all children belong to God and come from God .For killing them and not helping them when needed .Now you are all warned
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 7:49 pm
 
Kevin Kennedy is a contradiction in terms. He pretends he is a Jehovah’s WItness, but ignores all that they teach him about the Faithful and Discreet Slave being the only route to salvation. He also claims to be unaware that the JW bosses have regularly come out with dates for Armageddon. OK, so this guy, and fellow loonies, may well continue with some self centred Armageddon fantasies in their heads after the WT Establishment goes belly up. Whether any will form a global publishing coy. and mind control cult on a similar scale is, though, open to question. JWs have already been found guilty, in the Candace Conti case, of neglecting their duty to children. Presumably Kevin Kennedy will pretend that this case and the others to follow are as fictional as he wants to imagine JW Armageddon date setting has been. The JW bosses, of course, will wish Kevin an Armageddon death for imagining he can bypass their authority and get straight to the Big Man in the Sky without their exclusive mediation. If the JW bosses knew of Kevin Kennedy’s apostacy he would be disfellowshipped.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:31 am
 
To rowland:
Wrong one more Mr Ro.
 I have demonstrated time and again that yr accusations are desperate and baseless, you have entered into yr own world. awake!.
You expect people to act and behave according to that story in yr head, and when that does not happen you get frustrated. too bad for you.
According to the faithful and discrete slave of our lord Jesus, the only way to salvation is what Jesus said, read IT.
I am aware of the dates, they were not prophetic words like the evangelicals.
►JW dont believe in modern day prophets
 so there is another of yr baseless arguments down
lets continue:
The ignorance you display is daunting, Christians dont depend on a printing press to organize and worship God Jehovah. this has been demonstrated all around the world in places where the truth is banned.
ONE MORE FALLACY DOWN, LETS CONTINUE:
 There are many printing presses and witnesses around the worls that do the same as the central office at brooklyn.
As a matter of fact and just so you know. just a little bit of inside news you might not be aware of–
The printing of the mags and books, are being transferred to different zones, there is one in mexico to handle Latin America, another in Australia, and so on.
Decentralization of the org.
The case you keep referring to the legal case,
 If someone abuses yr child, you go to the police first supposedly, or you go find the pedophile first, but what kind of parents sit around waiting for the elders to do what?–JUST THINK ABOUT IT- this is all a smoke screen, a non existent issue, I’ll tell you why.
Any parent that finds out that there child has been abused and goes to the elders of the cong instead of calling the police is a, fill in the blank.
rowland you are so lost, how did you ever get so messed up?
 because of the witnesses .
 that just proves the point .
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:35 am
 
Kevin, I have a question for you.
You say “JW dont believe in modern day prophets”
Please could you tell me who are the “two prophets” spoken of in Revelation 11:10?
I look forward to your answer.
Cedars
Reply
 
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:47 am
 
Cedar, this question implies n answer that would violate the rules of the site if i understood them correctly.
The question you pose, does not pertain to my statement.
It is repeated time and time again mindlessly, with out reasoning about it that JW are prophets and that whatever they might say in the literature about any future happening is a prophecy from them. nothing can be further from the truth.
Jw teach that no human today is able to prophesy, reason for this:
 is all written already in the bible.
very simple one more lie down.
Now you can say that i am a troll and am trolling around that yr favorite excuse to kick people out just like you have done in the past.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 14, 2013 at 8:17 am
 
Don’t be silly. The answer would not violate the rules of the site. I am asking you who Watchtower identifies as being the “two prophets” – not giving you license to indoctrinate people. I discuss Watchtower doctrine all the time but am clearly not indoctrinating anyone.
If you don’t answer the question you will prove yourself to be a troll.
Reply
 
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:50 am
 
Faithfullwitness
 Who told you that?
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 8:07 am
 
Faithful Witness says:
 October 13, 2013 at 11:21 am
Kevin said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” you have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
——————————————
Sure, I’ll provide you with one big example, i dont know how familiar you are with JW teachings but from the looks of things here, i will elaborate.
In 1935 JW came to a clearer understanding about heaven, they understood that a small representative group of people wld go to heaven.
They thought that this calling was more or less coming to an end, closed, a member of the governing body went as far to say
 NO MORE IN CORPORATIONS!!-
So according to you guys here, it wld be unfathomable for a JW to go against the GB especially in this occasion especially in front of all when all eyes are upon you at that moment.
According to what you would have us believe all memorial participation stopped!! on a dime.
IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?
 CHECK THE STATISTICS.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm
 
Kevin: So, are you telling us that you are partaking of the memorial emblems? I think you misunderstood my question.
You said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” YOU have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
Also still wondering about your statement: “The only way to salvation is doing Gods will and JW’S are doing it. so it is best to be with those.”
Who told you that was the way? Who said JWs are doing God’s will? Do you know what Jesus actually said about this? (John 14:6)
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 14, 2013 at 12:10 pm
 
The Watchtower outfit has been convicted and fined in the case of Candace Conti. Its Bible based 2 witness rule is illegal. JWs have made prophecies. That they say they do not believe in modern prophecy is simply another of their crazy contradictions.
You want to believe, Kevin, that as a JW, you have a direct line to Jesus. You do not. Your bosses demand that you approach JC through his earthly sole agent, the New York (or Warwick County) bosses.
I presume you have devoted so much of your life, your time and your energy as an unpaid mag. distributor for that corrupt cult that you have to try and convince yourself that JW TRUTH is true.
You are defying them anyway by interacting on this site with apostates so your bosses for whom you have contributed your time, money and energy, will consider you dead meat anyway. It is tragic, I realise, that you have nowhere else to go.
I hope that when the Watchtower falls, or you recover from your pathetic delusion, Kevin kennedy, that you find a meaningful and contented way of life. Millions of ex JWs have done just that and there will be plenty of support when you wake up.
Best wishes.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 14, 2013 at 1:04 pm
 
When I was a JW, back in the 1950s, a pre 1914 baptism was the cutoff date for admission to the 144000 and participation in the Memorial. In my Leigh on Sea congregation there were two old ladies and one old gent who qualified. That the ‘heavenly admission’ and Memorial partaking rules have changed is simply par for the crazy JW TRUTH course. Truth, as commonly understood is fixed and immutable. JW TRUTH is of a totally different order. It is anything and everything, no matter how wacky, spouted by the JW bosses. Where this Kevin Kennedy guy has picked up the notion that you can be both a freelance communicant with Jesus and a JW I have not a clue.
My mad mum was the only baptised JW in my family. I did not thus suffer the agonising traumas of escape suffered by some in the ex JW community. Like Kevin, and his delusion that you can be a JW and bypass the bosses, my mother had a similar delusion. She imagined that being an unwashed and unkempt scruff made her super Holy. She was defiantly blind to the JW dress code even when it cost her the ‘privilege’ of door knocking. She was proud to announce, however, that she was still permitted to distribute magazines to neighbours and acquaintances.
JWdom attracts a whole hot of the vulneable, biddable, depressed and downright deranged. Kevin Kennedy is simply one more tragic example.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 8:55 pm
 
fAITHFULLWITNESS:
Yes that is what i am telling you and i dont think you grasped it, basically they said the number of the anointed was complete.
At the age of 15 the GB was a big deal to me, they were it. basically they did not know what they were saying on this issue.
I partook and everybody else who felt they needed to did, so that is a big example of something that cant get more important.
The JW did not go along with the program on that, people still partook whatever the GB SAID.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 9:02 pm
 
Cedars commented on About JW Survey.
in response to KEVIN KENNEDY:
Cedar, this question implies n answer that would violate the rules of the site if i understood them correctly. The question you pose, does not pertain to my statement. It is repeated time and time again mindlessly, with out reasoning about it that JW are prophets and that whatever they might say in the literature […]
Don’t be silly. The answer would not violate the rules of the site. I am asking you who Watchtower identifies as being the “two prophets” – not giving you license to indoctrinate people. I discuss Watchtower doctrine all the time but am clearly not indoctrinating anyone.
If you don’t answer the question you will prove yourself to be a troll.
——-__________________________
I dont do well with threats, you just lost the answer i was prepared to give you, maybe yr just very young and don’t know how to speak with people, but that’s not the way to deal with me.
i expected no less, you did not disappoint
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 14, 2013 at 11:25 pm
 
You don’t get it, do you Kevin?
I have a duty to keep JWsurvey free from trolls so that it can be enjoyed by all.
I asked you a simple question, and you refused to answer it simply because you know full well the answer contradicts what you have said elsewhere on this page.
This proves to me that you are not interested in genuine debate but only in pursuing your own agenda.
Henceforth you are banned from commenting on JWsurvey.
Reply
 
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 14, 2013 at 9:41 pm
 
Kevin, are you of the anointed class?
 Do you believe that your works (“doing God’s will”) are the only way to get you into heaven?
 We are blessed to have someone of your standing, commenting on this blog! What are your thoughts on Jesus’ words at John 14:6?
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 14, 2013 at 10:21 pm
 
Kevin, If you were 15 in 1935, then you are now age 93. Is that correct?
 Also, what year was the GB formed?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 15, 2013 at 12:30 am
 
Like the founder of JW Survey, I too support free speech. It is a pity that Kevin Kennedy was unable to appreciate this freedom and used this site to try and convince himself that free thought and being a Jehovah’s Witness were compatible. If nothing else, his failure to answer questions and his illogical and twisted state of mind were a useful example to any observers, of the tragic inner turbulence that must possess so many practising and indeed, inactive but believing, JWs.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm
 
No, Kevin Kennedy, you do not understand TRUTH. Truth is, by definition, unchanging. Scientific ideas about the nature of the universe are not presented as Truth, merely the most likely, bearing in mind current evidence.
JWdom’s lies have left a whole load of misery in their wake. Advocates for God’s laws, Biblical or otherwise, always claim that they represent the unchanging, immutable and eternal, unaffected by human discovery or fashion. That is the line taken by Christian anti women priest types and Christian gay bashers. It is also the line taken by that most grubby little corner of Christendom, that blight on the world, the Church of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The old geezers who run it, who would wish Kevin Kennedy a divine murder at Armageddon for defying their authority and interacting with apostates, present their bilge as unchanging, immutable God issued TRUTHS. God thus approves and disapproves of Christmas celebrations, approves and disapproves of blood transfusions, will and will not do his Armageddon before the end of the 20th century.
The old geezers who run the corrupt global publishing and property corporation known as the Watchtower Society, have claimed, with zero evidence, that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24. Their entire authority rest upon this ridiculous claim.
So don’t worry Kevin Kennedy. The fact that a bunch of self righteous, self appointed, self serving and controlling old farts in the US think you deserve the death penalty, means nothing whatever. If you really enjoy going to dreary little meeting halls, listening to boring talks and reading awful mags while wearing a boring suit, there need be no laws to prevent you; feel free and carry on. Rest assured, though, that AAWA will not cease its campaign until JWdom has binned its murderous blood policy, packed up shunning those who disagree with its bosses, stopped protecting pedophiles, and no longer terrifies kids and others with its Armageddon nonsense.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2013 at 9:54 pm
 
Sorry! 2 omissions from the above.
1. AAWA will continue to highlight, until binned, JW demonisation of higher education.
2. As well as the JW features mentioned, feel free to continue enjoying the most uninspiring and dull music in Christendom.
Reply
 
 
 Voice_of_Reason says:

 October 24, 2013 at 12:06 am
 
Some of the most wonderful people I have ever met were JWs when I used to go to meetings in the 70s/80s. Rowland Nelken presents some sound arguments and counter-arguments but his vitriol against all Witnesses is grossly unfair. We should remember Psalm 118.8 about ‘putting your trust in mortal man’ when thinking of the GB, for so long as they are alive on this Earth, they are unquestionably ‘mortal men.’ We should remember that one of Christ’s first actions when he went unto his ‘Father’s House’ in Jerusalem, was to throw out the traders and criticise the Scribes and Pharisees: those charged with the spiritual welfare of his ‘flock.’ I am not saying that GB members are of this class but, as a lovely, humble old JW (elder) once said to me: “There could be a few surprises come Judgement Day.” JWs or not, let all of us Christians put our trust in God and Christ. Amen
Reply
 
 
 Liam Smith says:

 October 25, 2013 at 5:40 am
 
Your comments in my opinion come across as rather judgmental.
 I agree with you in that this is the organisation God is using but the way you expressed this to the author of this website was somewhat over the top brother.
 God’s spirit is indeed asked for in directing matters but in some cases the elders with their eyes wide open choose a very unchristian way to express themselves to congregation members even though they are clearly aware of the spirits operation. These men will indeed bring in upon themselves the justice they deserve in treating God’s sheep with disdain and contempt especially when sheep that are stumbled walk away from God.
Reply
 
 
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A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
new-cedars-signature2

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303 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 25, 2013 at 6:42 am
 
You write, Liam Smith, that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are God’s organisation. This was the claim made when I was a Jehovah’s Witness. Neither then nor since, despite asking countless Jehovah’s Witnesses to provide evidence to back up this claim, I have never come across any evidence. What evidence can you give, Liam Smith? You realise that, without evidence, the entire authority of the Jehovah’s Witnesses bosses collapses, and they are exposed as nothing more than self appointed, self righteous controllers of a global publishing and property corporation. The JW bosses use this authority, based on an unevidenced claim, to exploit an unpaid labour force of magazine distributors who, for no reward, labour to increase the capital value of the WTBTS.
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 Liam Smith says:

 October 25, 2013 at 7:36 am
 
When you ask for evidence mate, well all I can say is my own personal evidence which is personal to me and part of my faith.
 I wasn’t brought up as a witness and my time in the organisation has been frankly pretty tumultuous to the point I could easily walk away but for me what it comes down to is my relationship with God and appreciation for the sacrifice his son made.
 Hope this answers you question pal.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 25, 2013 at 10:33 pm
 
Of course it answers no questions at all. If I were to state that the Universe was created 150 years ago by a pink unicorn named Sidney, then you, Liam Smith would have every right to ask me for evidence to support such a bizarre statement of faith. If I were to reply merely that ‘it is my personal faith and I acknowledge that I owe my life and health to the efforts of Sidney the pink unicorn’, would you be satisfied with that answer?
It is gratifying, at least, that if this is the only justification you can have for your faith in the divine appointment of a bunch of controlling, exploitative old geezers in New York state, then your door knocking evangelising will be even less successful than the average of one new JW recruit every 40 years.
I sincerely hope, Liam Smith, that you do not fritter away the rest of your life as an unpaid mag. distributor for a corrupt property and publishing corporation.
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 Liam Smith says:

 October 25, 2013 at 11:07 pm
 
To correct you his name is pronounced Sydney or Syd as we affectionately refer to him and for your information he also can be seen in beige and not just pink!!!
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 26, 2013 at 6:36 am
 
Interesting that Faithful Witness has great respect for JWs. That respect is not reciprocated. JWs look forward, obsessively, to the day of Armageddon when their Jehovah is set to murder all non Jehovah’s Witnesses for the capital crime of non Kingdom Hall attendance and non distribution of WT mags.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 31, 2013 at 8:17 pm
 
I remember some very nice people at the Kingdom Hall of my childhood. It is tragic that they had been duped into wasting their lives as unpaid mag. distributors for a corrupt money grabbing cult.
Reply
 
 
 k.chambes says:

 November 2, 2013 at 6:44 am
 
Each and every day Watchtower elders send known pedophiles to offer unsuspecting families, bible studies. So some children will continue to be abused, some will commit suicide, some families will split. Whilst able to protect their own children, these religious leaders refuse to warn the congregation of the present danger of these “hidden in plain sight” predators, who will cause immense damage to some in the congregation in like manner.
 Delude yourself not: the Watchtower is pro pedophile and so are it’s activities!
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 What is your religion right now? says:

 November 14, 2013 at 4:23 pm
 
What is your religion right now, Mr. Cedar?
If these were the stories, the facts, and opinions about JWs, that Mr. Cedar was a former member of this organization, so what is the religion of Mr. Cedar right now? I just want to know the answer.
Thanks for posting my comments.
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 Cedars says:

 November 15, 2013 at 2:07 am
 
“What is your religion right now, Mr. Cedar?”
I don’t have one. I hope that answers your question.
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 Darlene says:

 December 17, 2013 at 1:23 pm
 
Hi Peter did you know the name JEHOVAH means Lord of Mischief .Please do the research.The proof is out there.There were no Js until the 1600 or 1700s It was OVAH .The proof is in the STRONGS CONCORDANCE BIBLE DICTIONARY 1996 ON OR BEFORE.you will find it shocking.Iknow I did.BLESSINGS ON YOUR JOURNEY FOR THE TRUTH.
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 cecil scott says:

 January 5, 2014 at 8:29 am
 
How many men are on the governing body? Are they all white? Do they go into the field service? What is the latest prediction when the end of this system will happen? By the way, how old is this denomination? When did the name occur? Why did they celebrate Christmas at one time?
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 January 5, 2014 at 8:43 am
 
Cecil, you have asked some really interesting questions. The one about the Governing Body is answered on this site.
As for the others, maybe a visit to jw facts would help. It’s a great site.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
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 Dr. Cecil Scott says:

 January 7, 2014 at 1:05 pm
 
TO: A Happy Witness of Jehovah…..
What light getting brighter are you talking about? Those whom you refer to as “false religions” have always preached that “the day and the hour, no one knows” referring to the end of the world. Yet you people have predicted the end of the world about 6 times, or a little over 6 times, and yet you claim to be God’s ‘faithful slave.’ You still keep on insinuating/predicting when the end will come. False prophets and a cult.
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 Dr. Cecil Scott says:

 January 7, 2014 at 1:08 pm
 
My questions were all rhetorical/sarcastic. I know the answers to all of them and the answers arent pretty.
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe says:

 January 27, 2014 at 12:18 pm
 
Unfortunately, this is the truth. The “organization” is merely a machine, a mammoth without kindness or love for the neighbor…. just words, empty words and contradictions….
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe says:

 January 27, 2014 at 12:41 pm
 
to: Mr. Cedar
Did you read what Pastor Russell wrote? (the six volumes, etc.) The JW’s pretend that Russell is their JW founder but the doctrine he taught is so different from JW’s. He was a truly Christian, I noticed from his writings; and he was appreciated in his days. Hundreds of leading papers published his articles…..In those days there was no higher authority over the ecclesia (congregation)….
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 January 27, 2014 at 12:51 pm
 
Hello gheorghe
Welcome to JWsurvey! I hope you find it informative.
I have read some of what Russell wrote. Frankly, I find his writings rather tiresome, and just as error-strewn as any Watchtower magazine (although arguably not quite as insidious). If I were to believe everything written by Russell I would be a believer that Christ came invisibly in 1878, that black people will (or should?) turn white during Christ’s millennial reign, and that the Pyramid of Giza is God’s “stone witness” because its internal measurements correspond inch-by-inch with bible chronology.
You are welcome to believe these things if it makes your life more fulfilling but I would rather decline the offer, thanks all the same.
Cedars
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 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 January 30, 2014 at 12:36 pm
 
You may be a busy man but: I Like your comments, and thanks for reply. What I really appreciated in Russell writings is the principles the Bible laid down: i.e. redemption for ALL not matter what religion are you in – thru Jesus the Savior; election of a special class today (in the evil world of today); and after that ALL others to be resurrected and taught about God – and the joy ALL the people will have when they will understand God and be blessed by Him. The Bible is full of verses detailing these facts. About opinions: Russell had many opinions but he never insisted you believe all of them. You need to think for yourself. That’s the Bible’s way. And I see you are thinking… I would have so many things to discus with you, and people like you, because The Truth is there and we can find IT. Lord bless.
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 Holy Cannoli says:

 February 3, 2014 at 5:05 am
 
To unhappy witness? If you can see how they treat you and the the hypocrisy that exist and the fake love they proclaim why not just walk away. Is there any benefit they give by treating you and your family bad? Where is this Love they talk about? Maybe it is not the truth they proclaim?
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 Holy Cannoli says:

 February 3, 2014 at 5:23 am
 
I have a question for Kevin in his scenario that he gave of the year 2099 and the JW’s being attacked by their neighbors? That is another 85 years into the future and the system is still existing? Doesn’t that totally contradict the 1914 end of gentiles teaching completely and even if you stretch the meaning of GENERATION another 5 times it goes against the number 1 teaching that the JW’s have “prophesied” over the last 75 plus years that the 1014 generation would see the end and the new world would be here? Was that just a joke you were saying Kevin about the year 2099 or has the WT changed their “understanding: again?
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 4, 2014 at 11:56 am
 
I would like to answer some questions, (I understand I may) and wish you think about it: first to Cedars and second to “holy cannoli”
1. Rev. 11:10. If you read the whole chapter you can see that the 2 witness and 2 prophets, 2 candlesticks, 2 olives are the same thing and they are the OLD and NEW Testament. These books were kept away from the people for a long time, time when the “Holy Roman Empire” was in charge but the truth they did proclaim (after) did hurt the bad system(s).
 2. It is true, the JW did some bad prophecies about time and they change it from time to time, proving they are wrong. Sometimes you just have to say, I DON’T KNOW, to some questions, and that is noting wrong. We find the answer later in time. The fact is that the gentile times did end in 1914 (you can calculate it from the Bible) but I think there is no other date given in the Scripture later than that. And as a proof is the events which followed: empires divided and even countries still divide. It Is the prophecy about the Image in Dan. (2:35 especially).
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 4, 2014 at 11:59 am
 
Oh, and a good link to a way to interpret the symbols of Revelation. And is consistent all the way with other Scriptures: [evangelical link removed]
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 February 4, 2014 at 12:21 pm
 
Hello gheorghe – it would be appreciated if you would refrain from disrespecting this site and its many visitors by posting evangelical links in direct violation of our posting guidelines. Please don’t do it again. Thanks.
Reply
 
 
 
 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 4, 2014 at 12:05 pm
 
I see my first comment (before the one with the link) did not go through…..well, I can not reproduce the same words. will wait to see maybe will appear latter.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 5, 2014 at 2:20 am
 
Georghe – All these strange images from Daniel and Revelation, can be, and have been interpreted every which way.
Let us all remember that hose weird hallucinatory visions have absolutely no bearing on anything beyond the politics of the Middle East c. 2 millennia ago. They are definitely not any sort of guide to the future.
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 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 5, 2014 at 12:36 pm
 
to Cedars:
 sorry, did not want to impose, maybe I misunderstood that I can put a link to a 3-rd party website…..And if I understand correctly: you do not believe anymore in God and in Jesus Christ, His Son? Jesus mentioned The Gospel (Evanghelia) and said to tell people about IT. I thought people writing here are Christians and we can exchange thoughts and believes….about what is wrong and right, true or false from the Bible, THE only Authority for us Christians. If that’s not true I will not any more.
to Rowland Nelken: I agree that these words can be interpreted one way or the other, but you have to accept that even Jesus refers to Daniel’s prophecies (Mat. 24:15) and precisely about the future, so they are coming from God. For me this is good enough proof that they are telling the future and you can follow it in the history. And if you find an interpretation which is in harmony with all other Scriptures then you did find the PLAN God has for MAN. Ephes. 1:9 and 3:11, Acts 20:27, Rom. 8:28. God has a PLAN and you (everyone) are in IT. Lord Bless.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 February 5, 2014 at 4:01 pm
 
gheorghe, you assume an awful lot. The nature and tone of this website is obvious from reading our posting guidelines, which you are now required to familiarize yourself with before posting a comment. The guidelines unequivocally mention evangelical links, but I will accept your apology.
Reply
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 5, 2014 at 1:36 pm
 
It is Jesus’ references to Daniel and Noah which turn me off the guy. I appreciate that some of Jesus’ teachings are quite sound, and even worthy of repetition and observance 2000 years after they were allegedly spoken. As far as my own studies have shown, however, it seems tha Jesus was one of many freelance apocalyptic rabbis in what has come to be known as the first century. Once Paul had established a fringe Jewish sect in Jesus’ name, a whole load of stories grew up about the guy a generation and more after his death. That St. Paul’s sect collected more support amongst Gentiles than Jews, and the Gentiles were none too keen on the Torah, especially circumcision, led to Christianity’s final split with Judaism by the end of the first century. This could well be what much of Revelation is about. Yes, there are Christians of a range of types who contribute to this site, but there are many others too.
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 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 6, 2014 at 12:19 pm
 
ok…. I see. I am a Christian and I believe the Bible is the Word of God. In the end All will be glad to believe, but now not every one can, like Jesus said. Peace be with you all. See you in the Kingdom of Jesus, not long from now, as the events in the world demonstrate that this systems, organizations, are falling apart. But the NECESITY of Man will be the OPORTUNITY of God to help him – in due time.
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 Faithful Witness says:

 March 11, 2014 at 7:00 am
 
1000 IS a small number of voices, compared to the millions that are currently serving Jehovah’s organization. MILLIONS of people who are not allowed to express themselves. Millions of people who remain silent, out of fear of losing their families and everything they have ever known.
What is your point? There are millions of people in this organization, who remain voiceless.
Jesus cared about EVERY sheep. Perhaps someone can explain why those who have been appointed to shepherd the flock today, ignore the cries of the children who are being abused? They are more concerned with protecting the name of their religion (vindicating the name of Jehovah), than they are with caring for those in their charge.
EVERY voice matters. Do you agree with everything the JW’s are preaching and practicing today? Everything?
Reply
 
 
 John Nelson says:

 March 14, 2014 at 6:29 pm
 
Why do they lie so much?
 Is it the last days?
 Is it after Armageddon?
 Is it the thousand year reign?
 Are people being resurrected?
 Does Jehovah permit homosexuality?
 Why lie to any?
 If the wages for sin is death why resurrect any to judgements?
 Why torment anyone?
 Why not help all?
 Why lie?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 April 1, 2014 at 1:40 am
 
Georghe from Romania;
 I just saw your explanation and response. Sorry for late reply.
 You say Gentile times REALLY did end in 1914? What is that Idea based on? If you use the 2520 years that the JWs teach as representing 2520 years and 99% of all scholars and even the WT knows Jerusalem was nor destroyed in 607bce but in 587 BCE it throws the entire Idea out the window! The fact that kingdoms were divided after 1914 does not prove anything in regard to Gentile times. Kingdoms have been divided ever since man was on the earth.
 I used to think that bc of all the deaths and wars in WW! and WW2 that it must be largest amount of death ever? No, it isn’t. Look up Largest deaths in war on Google or Wikipedia and you will see deaths in millions and millions of people over the years and with a much less earth population. You never hear the WT talk about those trouble times bc it doesn’t fit their agenda. The entire Idea that Jesus came “INVISBLY” in 1914 but you can’t see him is not scriptural nor is it reasonable and does not make sense if you read the rest of the scriptures about his coming and his revelation.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 April 1, 2014 at 1:48 am
 
The history of Islam as well as of Christendom, of which JWdom is but a minor latterday fragment, a late 19th century American Adventist spinoff, is littered with End Times prophets.
They all suffer from the delusion that the Bible (or Koran) is the Word of God and is somehow a guide to the future.
Neither book is. They are both works of the human imagination and can tell us quite alot about the societies that gave rise to their production.
Both, however, are useless as moral guides or predictors of humanity’s future.
Their continued use as humanity’s ultimate guide is tiresome, painful and sometimes murderous. Time those old books were consigned to a museum
Reply
 
 
 Fynn says:

 April 14, 2014 at 7:44 am
 
Cedar, I worried about your intend for creating this site. If you think the Governing Body is doing something wrong why not seek help from the body of elders.
Do you think you are challenging the arrangement of Jehovah?
This I think is similar to that of Dathan and Korah of old. They rebeled against the appointed man of Jehovah. – Num. 16.
Why not turn to Jehovah again.
[link removed]
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 April 14, 2014 at 8:12 am
 
Fynn, are you real or a sendup?
How can an organisation like the Watchtower, whose only legacy in their 135 year existence is a string of duff prophecies, a trail of deaths through teir fli flopping edicts on blood transfusion, split families through the shunning diktats, stunted lives through the frowning on education and paedophile protection, courtesy of the 2 witness rule, have any connection to any god that might exist?
JWdom also depends on being able to kid its followers, in the face of all available statistics, that wars, earthquakes and epidemics are on the increase.
It is sites like this one, and they are growing in number, that are making it more difficult for ugly little cults like JWdom that depend on ignorance for their survival, to spread their poisonous message and wreck so many lives.
I hope Fynn, that your defence of the JWs was in jest and that you are joining us in laughing at your little post.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior says:

 April 14, 2014 at 11:28 am
 
Fynn,
Cedars cannot seek help from a body of Elders. The Elders have been appointed by the very men he is concerned about.
If the Body of Elders found in favour of Cedars, what would happen next? Would they take Cedars’ concerns to the Governing Body? What would be the response of the GB? They would doubtlessly disfellowship the entire body, as they did at Menlo Park.
Aaron had a rod that budded. His sacrifice was accepted. Moses had a column of flame. What do the Governing Body have to PROVE that they are chosen by Christ?
Christ anticipated this conundrum. He asked us to look at the fruitage. Many will claim to follow him, but the proof is in the pudding.
The list of complaints against the GB are long and harrowing:
Cover up of child abuse
Cover up of domestic violence
Rape victims facing a judicial committee to check that they cried out and that they are not guilty of fornication.
If the GB are really God’s chosen people, then how can they allow these base crimes to perpetuate in their religion? What do you think Christ would think of these atrocities?
Mr Cedars is a good man. He writes balanced, well researched articles that have helped many, many people understand fully just what the WTBTS is and what it does. I personally think that Christ would be proud of his service to his fellow humans. He would see his self sacrifice as a noble and humane act, that glorified God. Why don’t you?
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 April 14, 2014 at 1:45 pm
 
Fynn,
 Can you please provide some biblical evidence that the governing body has been appointed by Christ? I have been unable to find any quotes from Jesus, or any of the prophets, of any divine leadership being appointed at some later time in the future.
I have found prophecies about an EVIL power, taking over the world and fooling many during the times of the end… but where is the evidence that God was going to have an organization or any mortal men in charge of his people who were still alive on earth today?
Please help. I really don’t understand this teaching, and no JW seems to have the answers I seek.
How do you know that the governing body is appointed by Jehovah?
Reply
 
 
 Paul Drake says:

 April 24, 2014 at 10:00 am
 
I know a woman who was forced by her husband, an elder in the 50’s, to have an illegal abortion “so as to be better able to serve Jehovah”. She never was mentally right after this. He divorced her under a pretext and married a younger woman. He died in good standing. She died as a disfellowshipped person.
 That’s a reunion I’d like to see.
Reply
 
 chatpal says:

 December 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm
 
if a paul drake is still on this site id like for him to tell us he is ok, otherwise, I believe the paul drake poster ,if he is who i think it was,
 has passed away last week . r.i.p
Reply
 
 
 
 Vincent law says:

 April 29, 2014 at 2:49 pm
 
I have been following your blog for a few years now.
 I have also left the JW organisation.
 It is very clear that the wtbts will say and do whatever it takes to keep group control they have there own agenda and that of there shareholders and partners this is the real problem its capitalistic its not a cooperative or foundation.
Reply
 
 
 trenton crump says:

 May 30, 2014 at 2:43 pm
 
good comeback
Reply
 
 
 hels bels says:

 June 12, 2014 at 11:22 am
 
I left the witness cult over 10 years ago. From time to time I googled ex jws, and found some interesting information. A few months ago I googled again – hadn’t done so for a while. I am delighted to see the work that you are doing. Thank you so much for all your hard work.. I have managed to move on with my life, but it never leaves you. I Enjoy your you tube blogs and this website is wonderful. There are many many more trying to leave and this support is invaluable. Well done. Xxx
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 June 12, 2014 at 12:52 pm
 
to hels bels
I to left the WT over 15 years ago. This is a great website for folks connected with the WT to express their feelings and concerns for current or former JW’s. One thing I have noticed is some former JW’s that express themselves here on a regular basis seem to get into many debates with some defending the WT and it turns into a verbal war amongst them both.
 I feel if they are coming here thery are coming for a reason and most likely they have had their own doubts and see the WRONGS committed in the WT and Gov body but are to scared to leave something they have been connected with for many years and/or fearful of being DF’d and having family and friends turn their backs on them. Like you said those that have been JW’s or other cults have said that the damage leaves you 100%. Scientologists, Armstrong World wide Church of God, Moonies all say the same thing. I think if we can be more understanding of their situation it would be helpful. If we remember how difficult and hard it was for us to leave and the process we went through to do it. For many of us it took years to break away. My point is debates and arguments don’t produce much positive energy. If we just keep pointing out the Failed teachings and failed prophecies, Flip flop teachings, Child molestation policy, Blood transfusions, generational teachings, and Dictator type control they LORD over the flock that should make the Majority rethink what they are going through everyday. Many people do not want to think on their own so let them be. Their is a huge struggle in the WT today and
 like Communism did 25 years ago fell from its own teachings and corruption.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 June 12, 2014 at 1:08 pm
 
To Hels Bels
I meant to say the damage never leaves you 100% That was a bad typo
 On my part. Sorry about that. Hope you are doing well and enjoying life.
Reply
 
 
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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303 Responses to About JW Survey

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 steve cowton says:

 June 30, 2014 at 12:50 pm
 
is it true as a jw your wife isn’t allowed to give you a bj?
Reply
 
 
 Jalmar says:

 July 29, 2014 at 3:20 am
 
Thanks for your writings if the input I use often in debate with a very rabid “omniscient” JW
I was wondering if you could write a bit about the subject NWT – And GB’s claims: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989250
 Definition: A translation of the Holy Scriptures made​​: directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into modern-day English
 by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah.
Have you ever thought about the fact that GBs theology is not consistent with the “Christian Greek Scriptures” – despite GB’s:
“carefully in conjunction with the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek basic text” –
On the title page of the 1984 NWT?
Moreover there isn’t any “basic texts” = Original Text of any of the languages​​.
You could maybe also write about “the anointed” – and Who anointed them?
Reply
 
 
 Judith Demaestri says:

 August 11, 2014 at 3:58 pm
 
I fully support this site because so far it has stated only the truth as I know it after 62 yrs. in this cult.
Reply
 
 
 Emilia Zayas says:

 October 6, 2014 at 10:28 am
 
GREAT,I LOVED
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 6, 2014 at 5:19 pm
 
When I read your postings, I noticed that you are very critical about the GB and other JW’s putting “spin” into their comments, opinions, positions and such. However, I also notice that your comments and postings, blogs, etc. are very slanted in a negative way, not a neutral one. Therefore, you can and do regularly put your own “spin” on these subjects, especially in a way so as to put a bad light on these people. Doesn’t that make you just as guilty as you say they are?
 You and I both know that anyone can take a bit of statistical information, letters, opinions and end up making them anything you want them to be. I find your website to be one that has a definite goal of putting the JW organization in a bad light and although not directly, drawing people away from the truth of the matter, indirectly, it is apparent that you do NOT want any of your readers to get ANY positive info about the group.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 7, 2014 at 12:38 am
 
Hello RJ, welcome to JWsurvey and thank you for commenting. I’m sorry my articles don’t live up to your expectations. However, you must understand that, from my perspective, this is a natural and expected response from someone who has been indoctrinated to think of Watchtower as God’s sole channel of communication with mankind. ANY criticism of Watchtower, however justified, would grate on someone who is under this kind of influence.
With this in mind, allow me to “cut to the chase,” as it were.
Either Watchtower, or the religion it advocates for Jehovah’s Witnesses, is true – or it isn’t. If it is true, then you should be able to answer the “Cedars Challenge” in the video below, and collect your prize (taking this website offline) for doing so. If, however, the Jehovah’s Witness religion ISN’T true, then it is extremely damaging. Why? Because families are being needlessly broken up through shunning for a religion that isn’t true, and people are dying in hospitals through refusing medical treatment for a religion that isn’t true. That’s just two examples, I could give you others.
So, if I am wrong, I look forward to your response to the challenge below…



Reply
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 6, 2014 at 8:08 pm
 
Now is your opportunity RJ. Let us hear all the good things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
MAybe my personal experience and knowledge is warped and slanted. Being a JW was certainly the worst aspect of my childhood by far. The idea that before the end of the 20th century, God was due to execute, at Armageddon, all the world’s non JWs, a crowd that would include most of my firends and family, and me too, unless I became a good enough JW, gave me nightmares.
As an adult I have discovered more of the achievements of the organisation. They include split families through shunning, deaths through refusal of blood, a string of duff prophecies, doctrinal flip flops galore and protection of paedophiles.
Thus far, as you might gather, RS, I am not very impressed with the JW track record. Maybe you are right. Perhaps my view is warped and one sided. Please enlighten, me, Cedars and others and tell us all the good things that the Watchtower has done and is doing!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 7, 2014 at 1:23 am
 
@RJ. I have been reading on this site for 9 months now and have never seen any comments from John Cedars that is critical of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people. He is nothing but sympathetic. His comments and most of the rest of us who comment though are critical of the Governing Body because they are the ones responsible for the cover ups and lies and the enforced shunning for those who would like to get away from this religion in peace. That is the John Cedars that I see. If you can show me that I didn’t waste the 48 years of my 68 years on this earth defending a poisonous cult, I for one am anxious to hear it by you giving us some evidence that God is directing this uninspired, God-directed true prophet as they claim and chose it in 1919 as they claim.
If you are open minded enough, read Don Cameron’s Captives of a Concept or The Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson and you will reach the same conclusions as most of us posting on this site. If you are banned from reading these books, ask yourself why????? If you really have the “truth”, the “truth” will stand up to lies……
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 7, 2014 at 3:52 am
 
@RJ. Not to get in a long debate bc WT Apologists have their own agenda.
 I as a former long time Elder who left over18 years ago feel that this site is not a derogatory JW site. This site is a way to look at the WT from an open perspective and asks he logical intelligent questions that we as JW’s or former JW’s or “Approved Associates” or extended family and friends of JW’s have always wanted to ask and always wondered about but were NOT ALLOWED to ask or question bc of the GASTAPO GB and the continual threat of Shunning and being DF’s and cut off from your family, friends and others for “THINKING” out loud. JR. BE honest with yourself. Like we al say and even the WT says, If it is the truth it should be able to hold up to any challenge or questions about their past, present and future right? The truth should have nothing to hide. The WT rewrites their own history. They change things anytime they want to. They flip flop on most teachings. they come up with the strangest bible interpretations of any religion and then change it 1,2,3- years later and no one is supposed to question it?
My wife is still a STAUNCH JW and a pioneer. We get into debates continually as she serves the men in Brooklyn. I continually ask her and even did today. If the Jw’s are right and have the Truth please tell me 1 prophecy that they have predicted out of he many hundreds over the last 100 plus years that have come true? Can you give me just 1? From the king of the North, to 1925, gog of magog, to 1925, 1975, 2000, to the F&D slave, where Jehovah dwells,( one time they believed he had his own private planet? ) Sounds mormonish to me?
Her answer tonight was yes, I can tell you! Ok What I asked. She said 1914!
 Oh man, that opened up a can of worms. She blurted out what she hears. She knows 1914 is not true bc he and I have discussed it before but this time she started saying how it was the first time in history that so many nations got together for a war? So what. Other ward have killed millions more than WW1 of course the WT never brings that historical point up. So this is the bottom line RJ. Thers is not one, I repeat not one clear prophecy or prediction the JW’s can prove they prophesied correctly in over 125 years. I ask you if that is true then
 how can they claim to have the “truth”? this doesn’t even consider their wacko teachings on many other things. Can you provide us with 1 prophecy that came true from the JW’s? Just 1 please.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 7, 2014 at 3:58 am
 
RJ,
I would be delighted to read some “positive info on the group”. It does not make me jump for joy to have to return to this organisation after twenty years to highlight the immoral activities of this so called Christian organisation.
The trouble is, RJ, I can’t find any on JW.org or in the WTBTS’ publications! I find examples of spin, dishonest quoting, omission of pertinent facts and rules that are far from Christian.
I would be very interested in your viewpoint on three issues that I find very important.
 The first is the WTBTS’ child protection policy. I have carried out research on this topic and I have found no protection for children or young people whatsoever. What do you think is best about the WTBTS’s child protection policy?
The second is the non existent protection of women from domestic abuse. Have you read the WTBTS’s position on this? Do you think it is right to encourage a woman to stay in an abusive relationship and not to be able to divorce on this grounds and not be remarried “in the Lord”?
The third is the shunning of Ex JWs by their families. Do you think that this is right? Can you point me to a verse in the Bible where Jesus shunned someone?
Please, RJ, relate your opinion on these very important issues. I am genuinely interested in your point of view.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 7, 2014 at 7:49 am
 
RJ – please note the reaction you have caused. There are several of us waiting to hear something utterly novel. We have studied the history and doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and have failed to find anything positive therein.
It is your duty to help us, unless, of course you feel we deserve an imminent execution for failing to see any positive aspects of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are a genine believing and practising Jehovah’s Witness you must believe that we genuinely deserve a soon to be delivered Armageddon death penalty at the hands of Jehovah for failure to devote our lives once again to following the edicts of the Governing Body.
Help us JR. It is your duty to us, to yourself, and, of course, to Jehovah.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 7, 2014 at 12:50 pm
 
Come on RJ! Let us hear all the good things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Enlighten us!
As Cedars says in his vid. no JW has risen to his challenge.
Be the first!
When all of us doubters are convinced that JWdom is true we will, of course, seek reinstatement and dedicate our lives to spreading the JW message in the short time that remains before Armageddon.
We will no longer try and expose the apparently murderous blood ban amd the shunning. We will realise that these are necessary to fulfil Jehovah’s will and to aid us and others in surviving Armageddon.
You have a golden opportunity to enhance your status at your local Kingdom Hall, to improve your image in the eyes of Jehovah and to save us lost sheep from Armageddon execution.
We know the reason for the delay could not possibly be that you lack the evidence for presenting JW TRUTH as true. If it were not true, of course you would not seek to either belong to or defend the Watchtower.
So, come on RJ. A hungry readership (and great rewards) await.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2014 at 12:39 pm
 
Well RJ, you can now join the long list of JW apologists and defenders who have come on this site, and, when challenged to present evidence for the Governing Body’s extraordinary claims of divine appointment, have disappeared.
Obviously you cannot provide any evidence to even suggest that JW TRUTH is true. It clearly is not. There is no evidence, of course, to connect the JW Governing Body with the Faithful and Discreet Slave of Matthew 24. That is the basis for the entire authority wielded by the JW bosses. The claim, and thus the Gov. Bod’s authority, is utterly bogus.
It would be interesting, however, RJ, to hear exactly what you JW defenders do when faced with the fact that you cannot justify your cruel and ridiculous beliefs. I am presuming, of course that you can understand why the JW central and ruling obsession, of looking forward to that mega orgy of destruction, Jehovah’s execution, at Armageddon, of nigh on 7 billion of your fellow humans, is perverse and obscene in the extreme.
Now you know, RJ, that you can find no evidence to support your horrible beliefs, can you please enlighten us as to what you are going to do? Will you creep back to the Kingdom Hall and desperately try and convince yourself that, despite the total absence of evidence, JW TRUTH is truly truthfully true? Will you shrink from the challenge of remodelling your life, and instead fritter it away as an unpaid mag pusher for a corrupt global publishing and property corporation?
As you must know, apart from making bogus claims, JWdom’s only other credits are the thousands of unnecessary deaths through its blood transfusion ban, its protection of paedophiles through its two witness rule, its split families through shunning, and the stunted lives through the ban on so many social occasions and its discouragement of education once the abilty to read JW mags and parrot their contents has been acquired.
Keep in touch, RJ. We are curious to know how you disappeared guys react, (or at least how you react, as, no doubt everyone behaves differently).
I hope you find a better way of life. You are worth more than to waste your life working as a slave for a bunch of geezers in New York who care nothing about you beyond your ability to enhance their organisation’s capital value.
Reply
 
 
 Pseudonym says:

 October 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm
 
They don’t really get involved too much in that anymore. But I think very recently yes. But I’ve not seen any specification like that anywhere of late. Only specifically speaks of sexual acts by name in relation to pre-marital acts that I’m aware of myself.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 17, 2014 at 10:38 am
 
I have been away from my computer for a bit, so I did not see any of the replies to my comments until today. So, now I would like to comment again about what I was saying:
The blogs of this website’s owner is contrary to what he claims. He says he is not persuading anyone in any direction and the website is simply for information. He also allows such despicable comments such as the one in June by Steve Cowton to remain on his site. Very little was said in response to my statements, just people taking the opportunity to blast their biased voice about a matter that I did not even raise.
Now as to all of you who replied to my original comment. I never once said anything to defend my personal beliefs or to attempt to change anyone’s mind about anything other than to state that this web site appears to be nothing more than a bunch of JW haters spouting out about their personal opinions.
Review every one of the replies to my comment. People just waiting to pounce with their hate, sarcasm, innuendos, name calling and personal attacks on others including me.
I laugh at the notion that those who have a positive view of JW’s disappear and do not return to the blogs on this site because of their fear of being wrong and it being exposed. Read the hate speech directed at me and you will see why they would stay away.
You commenters have no idea who I am, anything about me and yet you gang up on someone whose views differ from yours. You are very quick to degrade and spew hatred, but where is your heart? Do you have anything positive to say that might enlighten a person toward what is true? Or are you simply, hate-filled disgruntled past members who have an axe to grind?
I nave no intention of trying to convince anyone of you whether JWs are right or wrong. That was not my intent when I made my initial comment. I was simply pointing out that the owner of this site appears to be somewhat deceptive in what he says is this site’s purpose.
It appears that this site is a place for the haters and people with strong negative views to spout out about their position. That’s all I was trying to point out. From the replies to my comment, you have all made it plainly evident that this site is effective in quashing opposing views using the silly, unkind and loveless dialog as can read here.
I do not feel it to be my responsibility to try to convince anyone of anything. I do not owe anything to any of you responders, except to extend the love demonstrated by Jesus. I get the strong impression that most of you have a great knowledge of or have preciously been a JW. It’s obvious you have made your choice of which I have no problem with.
I may choose to comment more and on the other hand I may not. It did not take much time to post my original comment and I am not sorry that I did it. However, I am not desiring to get into long debates. I have friends that are JWs who have treated me much better than any of you have here. Also, my time is valuable to me and I desire to spend it on happy, uplifting and fun activities instead of hate talk and bad vibes about people I do not even know.
Finally, I am not in fear of any of you or your views about my friends or about me for that matter. If I do not return it will simply be that I do not desire an extension of what has already appears to be a bunch of bullies ganging up on the new boy in town.
P.S. Have any of you, including the owner of this blog read the posted guidelines? Try, it, you will be enlightened.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 17, 2014 at 11:05 am
 
By the way Mr Cedars,
 I read your response again and you certainly initiated the attacks on me and even accusing me of being “indoctrinated”. You do not know who I am, what I my religious beliefs are, nor what “influence” I am under. Keep with the guidelines of YOUR blog and stick to the point. Try answering the questions I brought up to you instead of violating YOUR guideline of “Religious Neutrality”.
You appear to be anything but neutral. Also, try to calm down Mr. Nelkin, he is obviously so excited to dominate this blog, me and probably others, you risk turning your “survey” and so-called religiously neutral blog into a mouth piece for this very biased and abusive man
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 2:53 pm
 
I can only speak for myself, but my childhood was overshadowed by unnecessary fears about Armageddon, due, according to the JWs back then, before the end of the 20th century, executing me, my non JW and friends as well as me if I did not perform as a good enough JW.
I do not want future generations of children to suffer such cruel nonsense and, apart from anything else, this blog serves as a warning to anyone who may be curious about the JWs, those nice polite Christian door knockers, and be beguiled by their tales of an imminent Paradise Earth.
As an adult I have learned more about the JWs. Even after leaving, in my late teens (though my mother stayed in for life) I was filled with doubts and fear, lest there was some truth in JW TRUTH. I spent much time studying both the Bible and the history of the Watchtower, and later, with the internet, discovered the stories of a range of ex JWs.
The more I learn, the worse the JW organisation appears. I had known about the blood deaths and the string of duff prophecies, but the protection of paedophiles and the shunning were news to me.
Practising and believing JWs do sometimes contribute to this and other ex JW sites. WHat is remarkable, RJ, is that not a single one can demonstrate that there is any truth in JW truth, nor can they point to any benefits of belonging. You, RJ, are no different from the others.
Of course, you are entitled to write negative things about me and John Cedars as well as about the blog itself. It would be interesting, however, if you could apprise us of some evidence which might suggest that JW TRUTH is true, or, indeed, that there have been any positive aspects of the Bible Students/ Jehovah’s Witnesses in their 135 year history.
You might also consider why, unlike, say, ex Methodists or ex Quakers, there are so many ex JWs, keen to warn the world about the dangers of getting ensnared by this cult, and campaigning to either get it to totally transform itself, or disappear.
If you feel we are ignorant about the benefits, or even the truth of JW TRUTH. Please enlghten us.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 17, 2014 at 3:09 pm
 
I AS A AFORMER LONG TIME ELDER AND assembly OVERSEER AT TIMES Coule see the religion is built on Fear. Fear of dying and/or being destroyed if not loyal to an origination.Fear of Armageddon, Fear of being DF’d. Fear pf losin g your friends and family, fear of not making it in to the new world. Fear, fear fear.
Have you noticed at assemblies/conventions et most of the talks are negative. Most are just depressing about how bad everything is and how bad you will be if you leave the WT? I was getting depressed listening to all the negatives day in and day out. Another note I was noticing that less and less Jesus Christ was being mentioned? It was all using the name Jehovah. In the Christian Scriptures the entire focus is on Jesus and his teachings and his sacrificial death. He being the Savior of mankind. However over time this was mentioned less and less almost to the point of ignoring him and his teachings.
Any religion that is based on Fear is not from God.Christianity is a simple faith but the WT has made it very complicated.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 3:12 pm
 
I realise I do not know you, RJ, but I did write, amongst other things, that you are worth more than to be an unpaid mag. pusher for an organisation that cares nothing about you beyond your ability to augment its capital value. That is not hate. Why interpret it as such?
Mine, Cedars’ and others’ posts have been directed not at the members trapped within JWdom, but at the organisation itself.
Thousands have suffered at the hands of the JW organisation. As you appear to be a supporter, RJ, of said org. it is disappointing that, while raging at others’ comments that are directed not at you, but at the organisation you seem to want to defend, you have nothing to say in its favour.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 3:36 pm
 
I have just read over the replies to you, RJ, and can see no hate speech, neither from me, Cedars or anyone elase. There is information, certainly, questions and opinions. For someone who dislikes negative diatribes I would have thought the Kingdom Hall is not a suitable place, nor does JW lit. make for suitable reading.
Unless the JWs have changed beyond recognition, both KH lectures and JW lit. is filled with derogatory remarks about all other branches of Christendom as well as other religions and, indeed, all aspects of the world beyond the control of the JW bosses.
ANd the hate is not purely verbal. There is this warning that the entire world not under the control of the Watchtower bosses is so foul that it it will soon meet, at the hands of Jehovah, a terminal blow to its existence in the form of Armageddon.
Although I learned long ago that the JW bosses are utterly phoney and their cliams mean nothing, for those who have been beguiled by their methods, the action which will accompany the hateful words seems real and terrifying. It did to me as a child at the Kingdom Hall.
I suggest you read both JW lit, as well as the comments here, in reply to yours RJ and then decide where lies the hate.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 11:58 pm
 
Please, RJ, you have accused me, Cedars and other people who have posted on here of directing hatred at you.
I do not see any. There are plenty of stories about the hateful way some commenters have been treated by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. That includes Cedars himself. For my own part I only suffered, due to my association with the JWs, nightmares and a constant feeling of guilt. That, however, is no reason to heap praise on an organisation. It is, however, a reason to warn others not to get involved.
As I mentioned before, the most glaring examples, in my own experience where JWdom and hatred come together are my memories of talks, Watchtower studies, home book studies and the Theocratic Ministry School; indeed everything associated with the JW experience.
We were warned off everything in the world that was not under the control of the Watchtower bosses. These were all Satanic; so wicked and expendable that they were due to be obliterated, before the end of the 20th century, by Jehovah in his mega orgy of destruction known as Armageddon.
Referring to the world and its billions of fellow humans which were not of that micro minority of baptised and active JWs as fodder for execution is, surely, hate. And this was not a few remarks, as might be found on a blog. This was constant. Three meetings a week at the Kingdom Hall, a home book study as well as in all the required preparatory reading and doorstep preaching.
Why, RJ, do you think it out of order to recount facts about a destructive organisation whose only ‘achievements’ in its 135 year history are a string of duff prophecies, thousands of deaths thriough flip flopping edicts on blood transfusion, split families through shunning, protection of paedophiles through the 2 witness rule and stunted lives through the frowning on education once the ability to read JW lit. and parrot its contents on the doorstep has been acquired?
We know you do not like this blog and you are no fan of Cedars or me. Thank you for making that clear. An answer to the following question, however, would be interesting:
Why do you consider information hate speech?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 12:43 am
 
As I mentioned before, RJ, I see no hate directed against you. There is information in the replies which points out the hate filled speech from Kingdom Hall platforms (all non JWs deserve to be executed) and the hateful behaviour experienced by some commenters at the hands of the JW outfit.
There are also invitations to you, RJ, to enlighten us as to the good things coming from the Watchtower as well as some evidence that JW TRUTH is true.
You have responded to neither invitation. You have simply made unsubstantiated allegations of hate.
My invitation to you, RJ, to tell us some postive achievements of the Watchtower, achievements which most contributors here, including me, appear not to have noticed, still stands.
I cannot speak for Cedars, but I presume his challenge is still open to you. I can offer no prizes for telling us positive info. about the Watchtower, but Cedars’ prize must surely tempt you. If you can demonstrate that JW TRUTH is true, this website which seems to have caused you so much anguish, will disappear.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 18, 2014 at 2:59 am
 
RJ, My challenge is still open to you to read “Captives of a Concept” and “Gentile Times Reconsidered”.
If you are not a Witness now, you should ask for a Bible study and make sure that every single statement that you see in the publication that the Society makes in that publication is backed up by the Bible. You will be amazed at all the blanket statements that the Watchtower makes without any Biblical backing. That is the mistake that all of us made when we studied, whether adult or as children. If you have a Bible study like that, it’s the Society that would be put on the offensive and the teacher will be amazed at how much they were also deceived into thinking that it was the “Truth” when all it was, was just made up “truths”, not substantiated in the Bible at all. You will have your eyes opened up by a “study” like that, believe me.
The bravest thing that I ever did (and all those in the same situation) was to walk away from the meetings and field service, knowing I was going to lose every so-called “friend” I had ever had at the Kingdom hall, both here and in many other congregations. It wasn’t lazy, like the Society would like you to think it was. It was not supporting lies anymore. Our consciences won’t allow for that and neither should yours.
Prove what the Society says is the “Truth”. That’s all we want for you. We don’t want to see you spend your life supporting lies. Nobody is attacking you. We are trying to help you. Read those comments again.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 18, 2014 at 6:03 am
 
RJ,
How is my comment in any way “hate speech”? I have only written my opinion and asked specific questions of you in a polite manner.
Trying to enlighten the general public to the serious problems in the WTBTS is not hate speech, not is it inspired by hatred.
Trying to enlighten current. JWs about the specific points I raised in my comment is not hate speech either. Where is the hate in my comment, RJ?
I think it far more hateful to do the things I raised, don’t you? To cover up child abuse – hateful. To advise women to stay with an abuseive partner and deny the chance to remarry in the Lord if this is used as a reason to divorce – hateful. To shun family members for simply not believing in the teachings of the WTBTS – hateful.
Please explain how any of my comments are “hate speech”?
Why do you think we are hateful? Why do you think that trying to help people is hateful?
I look forward with great interest your reply and your apology to me for implying in your comment that I am a hateful person.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 18, 2014 at 1:10 pm
 
I wanted to look at the replies as soon as I could because I was accused of staying away out of a fear. Read the latest bunch and they are all still pushing their dislike, disgust, hatred or whatever you want to call it towards JWs. As I have stated, you have all assumed that I am in your words an “indoctrinated” fool of some sort and that I should wake up. Everyone of you keep saying that I am pushing the truthfulness or correctness of JWs. This could be any further away from the actual facts.
I saw this sight and thought that it was one devoted to surveying people on a certain subject. Surveys are designed to be NEUTRAL and simply collect and report on various subjects.
All you people want to do is debate theology with a person who you perceive as being something that I am not. Not one of you have addressed the comments I have made concerning this web site and its blog. All you have done is wanted to spout out about your personal position as it relates to JWs. That is not the topic of which I blogged about and I have no desire in discussing a subject that I am not well versed in.
However, my background does surround statistics and statistical data. This web site’s “survey” is extremely unprofessional, non-scientific and prejudiced, in my opinion. Any one can take a little bit of info and make it whatever they want it to be. Politicians make a living doing this. I have never said even one word defending the beliefs of JWs, either individually or as an organization.
So that people like me are not confused in the future, maybe the domain name should be changed so as to not be so misleading. Mr. Nelken seems to have a lot to say about his position, unfortunately it has been directed to a person who blogged with an entire different SUBJECT and concern.
I have seen many websites that promote a particular philosophy or idea. That’s fine, no problem. I merely suggest in a humble way that you present it in that way and try better to not mislead and/or prejudge the participants. Cedars goes off on some long explanation of what an apostate is and admits he does not even identify himself. What’s wrong with being direct, honest and fair? Especially when you claim to be what this web site claims to be. I suggest, Mr. Nelken that you ask Cedars for a spot on the site and perhaps could call it Nelkens Corner or something. You could have meaningful dialog with people that want to talk about the subjects you want to talk about. Dominating a blog presented on a different subject and filling it with you rhetoric about JWs, “truth” or how your childhood was so bad is the subject for another place, in my opinion.
I am convinced that at this point, no one desires to address the subject that I initiated and frankly I do not want to waste time working on something that I am not qualified to discuss nor have any desire to hear about. It’s that simple.
 No Fear, no worries about me at all. I have not asked my JW friends about this site, but I can only guess that they have heard it all already, so I won’t bother them.
So good bye to all and I can only hope that you have peace.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 18, 2014 at 1:32 pm
 
I would like to reply to you comment by saying that I am not in any position to prove with statistical data that your claims about abuse are right or wrong. Also, I know as a I am an experienced statistician, you take your position based on limited information. It would be absolutely impossible to state your position as being actuarially dependable unless you have actually conducted an exhaustive detailed research on the matter and have gathered information in a scientifically based manner about the subject.
To make claims that you say are definitely factual and then push these poorly conducted surveys, decisions, or whatever you want to call them is in my opinion motivated at least in part by some sort of hatred.
If you got the idea from my comment that I am branding you as a hateful person, and I see where you could, then for that I do apologize. Sometimes people who do not intend to be hateful can say things that appear to be filled with hate, especially when it comes to very emotionally charged issues, such as abuse.
But I do not apologize for my position about this web site being one that is misleading. I am the first person to say that you have the right to your position and beliefs. You may even have had some terrible things happen to you or someone close to you. I get that. However, you say that JWs encourage abuse and have non-existent policies to protect women. You can’t say that with total accuracy. You did say that you cannot find any policy to protect children within the JWs. That does not mean a policy does not exist!!
Now, please do not challenge me to search for one and inform you when I get it. You see, I don’t care about this issue enough to spend my time researching it. Child abuse is a terrible thing, but I do not think that whether JWs have one or not will solve the problem. My expertise is not in this area and so I would bring little to the table in an effort to this worldwide tragedy.
 Let me end by saying that I have empathy for anyone who is a victim of any type of abuse and if this has been something in your personal life, then I can only hope that you can get whatever peace you can at this time.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 18, 2014 at 1:38 pm
 
My last comment was directed specifically to Excelsior.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 18, 2014 at 5:24 pm
 
RJ, you keep bringing up your initial comment and nobody is addressing it? The title of this web site is giving a voice to the silent majority. It isn’t just about a survey. Did you miss that by any chance? I think maybe if you read a bunch of the subjects on the right hand of this web site, you might have more of an idea why we all comment. Unlike you, the people who do comment on this site, do know what they are talking about because we all are either Witnesses now or were. If you notice, some were or are elders.
From what you say, you want us to think that you just happened on this web site and thought it was just a “survey?”
The fact that you don’t want to ask your JW friends about this web site, says a lot too. Why not? Why don’t you want to ask them? I am very curious why not????? You seem to think they know all about it and so what is the point, which is totally against all the rules if they really do.
We pity anybody who is a JW and welcome anybody to come on here and defend the Watchtower. We want to hear some good things if you can think of it but the reason people don’t come back after trying to defend the Watchtower isn’t because they are proved right like what you said but have nothing to defend their side of the story. If they had something to defend the Watchtower, they would come back and show it to us but they don’t come back. We have all the current as well as all the old literature and extensive concordances and indexes so we can prove anything to you and them. That’s why they don’t come back.. They got nothing.
You claim you aren’t a Watchtower apologist but you sure sound like a Watchtower apologist to me. If you don’t care about it, then why are you posting here?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 6:55 pm
 
Well, RJ, that was a load of ‘sound and fury signifying nothing.’ So it seems you are not a JW, and therefore feel no need to defend their beliefs and practices.
You have complained at length about this site having a misleading title and introduction. Your introduction of yourself has certainly misled many of us.
OK, you have some JW friends that you like. You actually wrote that. I can assume, therefore, that that is a fact. If you are not a JW, however, and assuming your JW friends actually believe that JW TRUTH is true, they believe that you, together with all all the ‘apostates’on this site, indeed together with all the billions of the world’s inhabitants that are not believing and practising JWs, are deserving of an imminent Armageddon death penalty.
My life improved immeasurably once I realised that this particular JW TRUTH (never mind all the other ever changing unevidenced ‘TRUTHS’) was cruel controlling nonsense. My childhood fears and nightmares were unnecessary. I wish to warn the world about the horrors that lie behind those neatly dressed, earnest and polite JW door knockers with their bags of mags. This site is one of many where that is possible. That the statistical survey element may not measure up to some standards employed by statisticians is a minor element.
‘Giving a voice to the silent majority’, however, is an excellent mission. I do not know how much you know about JWs. You have complained that we are demanding you be the Watchtower’s defender as many of us assumed you were a JW. You complained about the misleading title of this blog. You seem to have misled many of us into assuming you were a JW. Well, whatever your position, it is a fact that, within the JWs, dialogue is impossible. All communication is top down. THE TRUTH is invented by the guys at the top, the seven ‘divinely appointed’ ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ Gov. Bod. chaps, and then disseminated globally via the network of Kingdom Halls. The entire JW world is literally ‘on the same page’ (of the Watchtower) in any one week.
Discussion, dissent, even questioning of these DIVINE TRUTHS, is prohibited. Parroting is the order of the day. Armageddon execution is the threat that prevents any deviation from the New York TRUTH line.
Whether or not, RJ, you approve of deaths through the blood transfusion ban, split families through shunning, unnecessary terror as a result of the string of JW duff prophecies, split families through shunning, protection of paedophiles through the two witness rule and stunted lives through the frowning on higher education, these are the fruits of the 135 year JW ministry.
I do not understand why you object so strongly to a blog where those either still in the JW mental prison and those of us who have escaped, can have an opportunity, denied us in the strictly censored Kingdom Hall environment, to express our feelings about, and exchange information about, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation.
You complained about this blog’s misleading title. Anonymous has enlightened you as to its central purpose. I am not the only one who is utterly mystified as to why you object so strongly to this blog’s existence and purpose. It drove you, as you acknowledge, to fling unsubstantiated allegations of hate directed at you.
I do not doubt that you have good hearted JW friends. I remember some decent folk at my childhood Kingdom Hall. It is tragic that they had been beguiled by the slick mind control marketing style of the Watchtower to fritter their lives away as unpaid mag pushers.
I am glad that you disapprove of child abuse. Protection of paedophiles, however, is institutionalised in the JW world. That is just one of the evils of the organisation.
An explanation as to why you object so strongly to a site where facts about JWs can be revealed would be interesting. I know of no good that has come of the organisation since its foundation. Beyond the fact that it has ensnared some of your friends, JR, you have told us nothing about JWdom.
I hope you no understand why you have been misunderstood, and why your anger at this site’s very existence is a continuing mystery. Perhaps you could enlighten us.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 8:29 pm
 
You write alot, RJ, but you explain very little. It appears that you object to a site where the exchange of information and views on a destructive cult is enabled.
And on what grounds are your objections based?
That lies are posted?
No. Your objections are based on your view that the title ‘JW Survey’ is misleading and that you are a very clever actuary/ statistician or something.
You know now that it is a forum which, unlike the stifling Kingdom Hall, where even questions, let alone contrary opinions, are taboo, allows exchange of information and opinions.
So, do you still object to this site’s existence and mission?
If you do object, please explain why.
Remember, that if you are not a Jehovah’s Witness, JWs are told to believe tht you deserve an imminent execution at Armageddon.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 10:27 pm
 
Thus site does not only discuss the position of vulnerable women and children in the JWs. It raises all the other issues, every one of them negative, about the JWs.
For all that you have written wordily about the inefficient evidence (as you see it, from the POV of a highly professional , skilled and clever statistician) for the protection of paedos in the JWs, you must have noticed all the other horrors connected with the JWs.
As Anonymous says, whether you wished it or not, you come across as a JW apologist.
This suggests that though you may be a highly qualified, wise and perceptive statistician (or whatever) you are a very lame communicator.
I hope you are satisfied that this blog will continue until such time as Cedars decides to close it, or until some evidence that there is any truth in JW TRUTH is produced.
Until then it provides a very useful forum for the exchange of information about the JWs, whether the evils, of which there is plenty of evidence, or even the benefits. As to the latter no contributor here, including RJ, has ever produced any evidence that there have ever been any benefits to be gained from associating with the JWs.
I hope that one day this forum, and dozens like it, will become redundant. That, however, requires the utter transformation of the JWs, or, better still, the organisation’s elimination.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 10:34 pm
 
Correction – This site……
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 10:50 pm
 
As an expert statistician, RJ, you may care to assist, with your undoubted expertise, the Watchtower Society in their appeal against the conviction for protecting a child molester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ELBt4mA7sI
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 19, 2014 at 3:43 am
 
RJ,
Thank you for your partial apology.
I have plenty of evidence to satisfy you on the topics I raised.
I am not a hateful person for wanting to protect children, women and all people from the negative policies and practices of the WTBTS.
 I am motivated by love, not hate.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 19, 2014 at 5:39 am
 
RJ,
Further to my last comment.
I have re read your comments, and I have a statistical question, for which I would appreciate your expert opinion.
How large a study, and what questions should be asked, to provide statistically valid evidence of the points that I have raised?
Do I need statistical data if I can site Watchtower official policy that verifies my point? I appreciate that I would have to have data showing that the policy was actually enforced.
I have done a little research on statistics, but I am by no means an expert.
I want to effect positive change for the rank and file Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do not want to destroy anything or anyone. I want children, young people and women to be free from abuse, or as free from abuse as is reasonably possible. I want the policies about domestic and child abuse written and enforced by the WTBTS to be in line with best practice as determined by experts in the relevant fields, not a group of well meaning but uninformed religious leaders.
Please be assured, RJ, my motives are not hateful. On the contrary, my love for my neighbour impels me to do what little I can to help resolve these problems amicably and inclusively. This is in line with Jesus’ teachings and I am convinced that all Christians would agree.
I would sincerely like to benefit from your expertise in statistics to improve our effectiveness in resolving the profound issues that are raised on this site.
Please provide me with some advice on improving our statistics, and I am sure that it will prove to be very helpful.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 19, 2014 at 7:10 am
 
RJ, I was wondering the same thing as Excelsior was wondering. According to most “worldy” statistics, the divorce rate, separation rate, suicide rate and depression rates among Jehovah’s Witnesses are among the highest of any other religion in the U.S. so I am very curious if the Society has ever ran any real statistics on these issues, rather than just issuing blanket statements like the JW’s have the lowest suicide rates, depression rates and are the best religion of keeping families together etc? Does the Society have any real data on these issues or do you just take their word for these statistics that they are so good among JW’s? Also according to “worldly” authorities, JW’s have the 2nd lowest income of any other religion in the U.S. and a lot of times, the reason for divorce is the lack of money. Do you have any real data from the Society as to income levels among JW’s? You seem to know a lot about statistics so maybe you can help us out there.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 19, 2014 at 10:04 am
 
A JW friend of mine who was a long time Elder used to tell me he believed in the 100% rule? Which was that if you took 100 local people in your neighborhood and 100 local average JW’s and compared their life styles with Crime, statistics, divorce, infidelity, broken families, divorces, suicides, and all the other problems that fac Society he said he believed the Witness percentage would only be Slightly better than the local 100 people. As an Elder you get to see all these issues in a closer range and he experienced it. I myself as a for Elder for 12-13 years experienced it also. There was tons of infidelity, homosexuality, Thievery, fraud, Adultery,Illegal drug issues,Rape, Abortion, Alcoholism,Suicide and even MURDER more than once. One Sister KILLED her Non JW Husband with a gun during a domestic abuse. She was Df’d and one year later re-instated and everyone at the KH was giving her hugs and saying welcome back bla, bla , bla? One Local Elder in the SF Bay Area In a neighboring Congregation was a serial Rapist and Home invasion Robber and had raped and Robbed at least 10 times before he got caught and sent to jail. All the time while he was doing this he was the Presiding Overseer in the Cong!
I am not making this stuff up. I sat in many of these type of meetings and heard it all. The point here is the JW’s are not much different than the Non JW’s. I will admit they are taught NOT to do these things but in reality they do them maybe not at the rate of Non JW”S but like my Elder friend said the 100% rule does apply here.
 The reason they have the 2nd lowest income of USA religions is bc they are discouraged and even ostracized about getting and education that can make them a decent living. Doing Janitorial work and washing windows only pays so much and that is only of you own the company.
As we all know the JW retention rate is also very low. After a few years of being a JW people begin to see the real JW World and the dictatorship it has become.
Reply
 
 
 Name says:

 October 19, 2014 at 10:23 am
 
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODIntExp/docid-502013390_E_1_VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/user/johncedars1929
Compare attitude
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 19, 2014 at 11:09 am
 
Well these JW apologists certainly come in a range of varieties. There is, however, one binding feature. Not one can provide any evidence to suggest that there is any truth in JW TRUTH.
They all. however, in their different ways, cast aspersions on this blog. The last one, calling himself, RJ, was a very queer fish indeed. Initially he raged against this blog and appeared to all who read him, to be a JW apologist, indeed a JW himself.
As is now his custom, Cedars presented him with the video challenge, and promised that were evidence produced to demonstrate that JW TRUTH is true, he would take the blog down. As is transparently obvious to anyone not ensnared in the destructive JW mind control machine, there is no such evidence, and none was, of course, produced by RJ.
Unlike nearly all the other apparent or declared JWs, RJ did reappear; not however, with any evidence of the truth of JW TRUTH. He did not even offer, despite having received several requests, to tell us anything of the good things delivered by JWdom in its 135 year history.
He simply wrote a long screed accusing all contributors of spreading hatred, and boasting of his great credentials as a statistician; which credentials, he declared, qualified him to dismiss the ‘Survey’ word in the blog’s title as misleading. He had nothing, of course to say, which called into question the declared function of the blog, namely to give a voice to the silent majority.
He was persuaded, fortunately, to realise that he had not been in receipt of hatred. Any hatred in this blog is directed at the murderous and deceitful JW bosses.
Surprisingly, however, he denied being a JW apologist. This is most puzzling. JWs are ordered, on pain of Armageddon execution, not only to apolgise for their faith, but to spend all their time and resources promoting its wondrous TRUTH.
He had mentioned having some good JW friends. He has now been reminded that, if he is not a JW, his JW friends, indeed the whole global community of JWs, are looking forward to the day of Armageddon when RJ is executed. His very existence, as a non JW, is an impediment to the establishment of the JWs’ fantasy Paradise Earth.
Whether we have heard the last of RJ on this blog I have not a clue. He has, however, whatever he is, whether, JW, non JW, apologist, non apologist, believer or no, done the Watchtower exposure movement sterling service. Any casual reader will note that nobody, despite a whole battery of requests, is able to furnish any evidence of any benefits ever delivered by JWdom and certainly has never provided any evidence for the truth of its ever changing, obscene and ridiculous TRUTHS.
Well done, RJ! Keep up the good work!
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 12:32 pm
 
I changed my mind and I decided to respond one more time to explain my comments and hopefully remove doubt as to my intentions. I wrote a long comment and it was evidently rejected because of length, I will break it up into parts.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 12:40 pm
 
I read a long comment of yours, RJ. That it was posted and read means it was not rejected.
Certainly your attitude to the JWs is not clear. No one seems to know whether you are or are not a JW or a JW apologist. That is nothing to do with length and everyhting to do with your ambiguity.
All you have made clear thus far, though subsequent comments may enlighten us on other matters, is that you do not like this blog and you rate yourself highly as a statistician.
Reply
 
 
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
new-cedars-signature2

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303 Responses to About JW Survey

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 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 12:52 pm
 
I have an extensive background in the sciences of math, but directly in the application of data for use in making various predictions and assumptions, using various mathematical sciences, including the Law of Large Numbers.
Data gathered from various sources, such as official statistical records, surveys, polls, past events, etc. can be used to make some assumptions and be quite accurate, although not exact in a literal sense. This allows the weatherman to predict the future, insurance companies to predict death (mortality tables), pollsters to predicted the outcome of an election, etc. In order for the results of the collection of date to be reliable, there are definite requirements that must be met in order for the conclusions (predictions) to be accurate. The are:
 1. An adequate amount of absolute accurate must be used to give the findings credibility
 2. The integrity of the collected data must be verifiable. If the data used is not accurate, then the results are tainted and cannot be used
 3. The conclusions reached in regard to the project must come directly from the results of the information gathered.
I will address these individually.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:05 pm
 
1. The Law of Large Numbers, a mathematical science requires an adequate sampling of data. In other words, the amount of data required in a sampling is in direct proportion to the size of the entire. The larger the entire group, the larger the sampling must be.
Now, lets look at the survey by Cedars that I took. As I understand it, approx. 3-4,000 responses have been measured. It make it a bit easier, let’s just say that it is actually 10,000. If the total pool is the entire earth( internet is almost everywhere) that’s one thing. Let’s assume that the pool is just one country, say the U.S.
Here are the numbers:
 if worldwide 0.000001428% responded
 if just U..S 0.00003125% responded
In either of the above cases, the sampling(homogeneous units) a such a minute amount in relation to the larger pool that the results cannot be relied upon from a scientific standpoint. Therefore, because the data is so small, the conclusions arrived at cannot be relied upon.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:18 pm
 
I am sure an essay on the predictive value of statistics will be very interesting. I have no idea, however, what on earth it has to do with this blog.
Has anyone here made any predictions based on a small and utterly random sample of data?
Has anyone here made claims for the value of statistics based on data of negligible volume and gathered with no regard to method or sampling?
If they have I have missed it. This appears to me simply to be a forum where those who, either by direct experience or other means of getting to know the Jehovah’s Witnesses, can share information and express their views.
I have never read any claims by anyone that the contributors are representatitve in age, country, rank or depth of involvement in the JW business.
To those who know anything at all about the JW organisation there are only 7 individuals out of 8 million members who have a voice. The title of this blog explains that it is a place where the majority can express their opinions.
That every opinion expressed here about the JW business is negative may well be coincidence. It does, however, seem remarkable, that even those contributors who claim to be active JW members have not, so far as I am aware, described any positive achievements of the Watchtower outfit in its 135 year history. Despite repeated invitations none has presented a jot of evidence to suggest that JW TRUTH might be true.
A series of essays on the predictive value of statistics and the validity of data may well be very interesting and enlightening. So, also, would an illustrated talk on sunspots, breeding Persian cats or making vegetable curry.
None, however, would bear much relevance to the exchange of information and experiences on the misery making JW cult.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:19 pm
 
Next, the data must be accurate in the literal sense. If the data is not verifiable and from a varied source in a scientific way, then it is not reliable. For example, just because I say it, that doesn’t make it fact. Also, if I poll 100,000 people and ask them if Jesus Christ is our savior, and the mast majority respond negatively, it is of no value when we find out that the poll was conducted in a country where most people are Muslim.
When I apply this requirement to the survey on this website, here is the problem.
 Can the responses be verified? Did any people respond more that once, simply using a different email address? From what group of individuals was the survey taken? Did the responders answer honestly and in an accurate manner? The answers to these questions are not known in a definite way. Therefore, they cannot be relied upon from my viewpoint.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:23 pm
 
RJ. Has Cedars made any claims that this survey has scientific validity?
I have never read any such claim. If he has please enlighten us.
If he has not, your remarks are an irrelevance.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:36 pm
 
It may well be that the bulk of 8 million JWs worldwide actually believe that JW TRUTH, in all its mutations and flip flops is TRULY TRUTHFUL TRUE TRUTH.
They may well believe that the 7 Gov. Bod. members are God’s exclusive earthly reps. and that the bulk of the world’s population, who do not live their lives according to their every diktat, are indeed controlled by Satan and fully deserve an imminent execution.
If that is the case, then this site, along with the growing number of sites which tell the truth about JW TRUTH can only be a good thing.
Those of us who have left, and there is a growing number, feel strongly enough about the horrors of JWdom to campaign to expose the organisation, and hopefully, to get it transformed or eliminated.
The handful of believing JWs who have contributed here presumably believe this obscene nonsense. None, however, has supplied any evidence to support this bizarre and ghastly contention.
Of course, pro and anti, we who have written here are but a small and random sample, and nobody has made any claims to the contrary.
Do you imagine, RJ, that an essay on statistics is a substitute for your persistent failure to answer questions? Do you imagine, RJ, that an essay on statistics is a substitute for being utterly unclear in explaining your position regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:43 pm
 
Finally, assumptions and conclusions must be directly as a result of the results of the study.
For example, let’s say I start my own church and I get 5 members in the first year. Then at the end of the second year I now have 100 members. That is a fantastic increase, perhaps making my new church the fastest growing church in the world! And that may be true in once sense. Now, as a result of my data, I conclude that my church has what you folks on this blog refer to as the “truth” and my church is the true church. You would say that I must be some kind of a nut to assert such conclusions.
Well, I have read conclusions and opinions from many on this blog that I think fit in this same category.
Read them. JW are the leaders in the US in divorce, separation, suicide, depression, etc. You say they are among the lowest in the US in income. Where’s the data?
Divorce and separation statistics do not include specific religion info.
 Suicide numbers are determined by death certificates, which do not list religious affiliation.
 Income reports are not based on religion
 Even census reports are vague when it comes to religious connections
 HIPPA laws are so restrictive, it would be impossible to link depression (a medical condition) to a specific religion.
Cedars gives me the impression that the board of directors of the JWs (GB as you refer to them) do not reply to his submitted results because of a fear of the truth or something. In the real world, there is not a statistics expert, mathematics scientist that would take value in Cedar’s survey from a scientific view let alone a logical one , so why would the JW’s hierarchy?
Also, financial stability, growth and/or any other financial data cannot be derived by the statistics presented on this web site concerning the number of magazines printed and the frequency or size of such. The first year student in a financial class in high school knows that a P&L and balance sheet over a period of time is the tool to determine financial strength.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:49 pm
 
Why areyou so keen to set up this straw man, RJ, of a rigourous and fool proof survey?
No such claim has been made.
All you are doing is writing the sort of stuff on stats that is common knowledge to us lay folk.
OK, we know you are proud of your pedigree in statistics. You have trumpeted it. Congratulations on getting to know the basics of this subject and sharing some basic principles on here. Do you grow roses? Breed goldfish? Race stock cars?
If you do we’d love to know.
What, however, would be even more interesting would be for you to explain your involvement, if any, with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and, if you approve of the organisation, whether you can enlighten us as to any of its benefits.
Most contributors on here, and we do not claim to be a representative sample of anything; we are a random bunch; know only of horrible and negative things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Some of your earlier posts suggested you did not like reading negative things about the JWS.
You have been asked repeatedly to tell us of anything positive about the JWs, but you have declined.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:50 pm
 
As I attempt to explain myself, here goes Rowland Nelken again, pushing the same old sarcasm, accusations, condescending talk about me as a person.
Don’t you get it Rowland? The tab I clicked on is labeled “About JWsurvey”. I responded to tell what I think about JW Survey. All you want it to be about is you, your bad life experiences and a debate about JWs.
You say you do not see the people here on this blog and the website itself voicing conclusions that are at this time opinions and not established fact?
You make all types of challenges to me, knowing that I have already told you I will not discuss things that are above my knowledge level.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:56 pm
 
What wonderful modesty, RJ!
You will not explain things that are above your knowledge level.
So you do not know whether you are or were a Jehovah’s Witness.
You do not know whether there are benefits that have resulted, for anyone anywhere, during the 135 year ministry of the JWs.
You do not know whether you are an apologist for the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
You do not know of any evidence which might suggest that JW TRUTH is true.
How very peculiar!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 20, 2014 at 2:05 pm
 
R.J. I don’t know if you know much about our religion but none of us are allowed to converse with each other on any of the questions or doubts that we may have in this religion, that are in Cedar’s survey. If we were to start asking each other those questions, even within our own families, we’d be labeled apostates and will be disfellowshipped or shut up permanently from being able to talk to our friends in any of the congregations and even our own families. That is the point for this web site.
Lloyd set it up so that we could converse with each other so that we’d know that we are not the only ones who have certain doubts about the Organization. Until I found this website, I thought I was all alone in my pain and almost suicidal because of what this religion has done to me and I had absolutely nobody to talk to. This “survey” has literally saved my life.
If you delve more into the intent of Cedar’s website, you will see what it’s really all about. As a matter of fact, if the Society would send out surveys to see how the silent majority really feel about this religion, they’d have their eyes opened to the fact that what is keeping the “silent” majority of us entrapped in this religion is the fear of Armageddon and the guilt trip placed on all Witnesses that the whole world of mankind will die unless we get out there and preach. Maybe that’s why you will never see any surveys from the Society and in fact, you won’t ever see any of the Governing Body even answering any questions from the rank and file and especially of those who have disassociated themselves. Are they afraid of what they’d see in any surveys? I think so.
Also, what keeps Witnesses from using their brains to test that they really do have the truth, is that if they should test that they are in the “truth”, they are telling the Organization that they no longer have faith that they (Governing Body) are God’s chosen mouthpiece and anyone calling into question the Society’s claim, will be called before a committee for apostasy.
We are not allowed to “test” that we have the true religion. We just have to take the Society’s word for it. Nobody should ever be afraid to test that they have the right religion.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 2:12 pm
 
When it comes to hate, simply read the posts from the bloggers here. Hate does not have to be toward individuals to be hate. It can be hatred for a group, an organization, even a thought. Hatred is commonly displayed via sarcasm, demeaning statements, condescending talk and the like. Rowland Nelken is a shining example of this, simply read Rowland’s comments. He/she is so wrapped up in trying to dominant me with his/her tongue, belittle me when I try to share info I DO know about and advance his/her opinion that he/she cannot allow him/herself to look at this site through the eyes of a person who is not marching in step with his/her ideology. I confidently say that if I was qualified to debate the merits of JWism with you, I would not. You are much too abusive of a person for me to deal with on an adult level.
You have accused me of being a JW, a JW apologist, arrogant, the list of personal attacks go on. When in reality, you do no know me from Adam. However, in your words old “geezers” should not be followed. I am proud to be what you call an old “geezer” in that I have been alive for quite a while. If you are a male, you too are either an old “geezer” or working every day to become one in time. By your abuses to me personally here, perhaps even a “bitter old geezer”. That is sad.
Show your true self more evident. Reply to this last message of mine and lay it on as thick as what makes you think enhances your image amongst your peers here on this blog. God forbid any of them disagree with you.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 2:54 pm
 
P.S. I didn’t see the comment from anonymous until I posted the last comment. So this one IS definitely my last.
Anonymous, read your last post to me very closely. Your complaint about JWs is I am sure from your heart. Read what type of person Rowland, a major contributor since I first commented, is. I think you will see exactly what you claim about the JW organization. Rowland thinks there is no other viable view, Rowland attacks when something contrary to Rowland’s views are expressed, Rowland belittles, verbally bashes with sarcasm and apparently has no respect for a doubter. Rowland refuses to listen to the talk of someone else when it disagrees with him/her. This is not heresay or opinion, it comes from Rowland’s mouth directly.
Finally, Rowland, in my opinion would NOT be the source of relief from what you say is your current situation, because Rowland has shown me he/she to be exactly what you say has made you suicidal.
Read Rowland’s abusive comments and such and ask yourself if that is the type of person you would want as an advisor or mentor. If your answer is yes, then you have arrived. If not, stay away from that person and any who are similar.
Read Rowland’s response to this and he/she will prove once more what I say is true.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 20, 2014 at 3:35 pm
 
Hi R.J. I too am old. I married a JW man who was an elder and used me as his personal punching bag for the first 15 years of our marriage until my oldest daughter was now old enough to be a “witness” to his abuse. When I finally did get up the courage to report his abuse it was when I was 8 months pregnant with my 2nd baby and he punched me in the stomach with his fist, I didn’t get a listening ear even then. The other elder told me that it was understood because of all the pressure “HE” was going through because of his job of being an elder.
I could write a book about the abuse that I have had to live through because of this religion. If you know anything about this religion, a woman is not free to go to the elders and get a listening ear if the husband is an elder or if you don’t have witnesses. It’s a man’s world in the religion and if a woman wants to get a divorce, she will be labeled and shunned. I am not alone. Men also suffer I am sure and I assume that Rowland has his own story to tell. When you are in this religion, you can have a drunkard for a husband, an adulterer for a husband, an abuser for a husband and nobody is allowed to tell the others in the congregation or even family members how you have suffered. You are not even allowed to tell the police about your abuse. You are not allowed to confide in family members if you are in this religion. That is the way it is set up.
To say that we all have our own stories is a given when we come onto Lloyd’s web site. It has been a life-saver for all of us, I am sure. We have all been led to believe when we became a Witness that it was a loving and Godly organization but when you become one, you will quickly see that it’s run by 8 men in New York and anything BUT Godly. Everyone who is a true believer equate the 8 men in New York as Jehovah God. They won’t admit it, but it’s true. You can try and talk to them that it’s not true that they equate the Organization as Jehovah, but they have been brainwashed and it’s like talking to a brick wall to get anybody to see that.
This web site helps us all who come on here to see that we aren’t alone and it’s therapy for us, since we are also not allowed to even seek professional help because as the elder’s secret book says, that if we seek professional help, we can’t divulge anything that is confidential, ie. abuse.
Do you understand why Rowland could be bitter and overly sensitive to a Watchtower apologist? I sure can. That is the situation you need to take into account when you might perceive a comment as against you. It isn’t against you as a person. It’s against anybody who will defend the indefensible (the lying organization known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society). That is why we are always asking people if they want to defend the Society, please come forward with something that can make us feel that we didn’t waste our lives on it. We welcome that. We don’t hate anybody who can do that. We’d be eternally grateful if you could do that.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 20, 2014 at 4:28 pm
 
I have been following Rowland and RJ conversations with interest. IN my opinion it is time to let it go for both. The conversations are both going negative and have no purpose anymore between the 2 of you.. They have just turned into a spitting match now. However, Rowland asked some simple questions of RJ that he just doesn’t want to answer about his affiliation with the JW’s etc. RJ seemed to get away from the point here and go in the direction of a scientific survey etc. All this site does is take the surveys that come in an d most are from JW’s or former JW’s.Rj His his reasons for not wanting to disclose his affiliation with JW’s so just let it be. If he wants to or does not want to support the WT that is his choice. We who were or are JW’s had very good reasons for leaving when we did. I agree with Rowland on his life experiences in the WT Org and many are similar to my own and many other current and former JW’s. As an Elder for many years and an Assembly coordinator at times and popular guest speaker I know what Rowland is saying is true for many. RJ, one point you brought out in your comments about Hate and your explanation o fit is very true for the WT organization itself.
For example Hatred for a group is shown through Sarcasm, Demeaning Speech,
 demeaning statements, demeaning talks, hatred for a group etc. If we are honest with ourselves these are the very traits and speech the WT and GB teach and hold for all other religions, Calling them the Harlot, Babylon the great,
 All under the influence of Satan the devil. They also hold the same teachings and hatred towards ANY one who leaves the organization and decides through their own free will or on things they have experienced and learned AFTER becoming a JW that they no longer want to be a JW they call them “MENTALLY Diseased” or followers of Satan or other negative hurtful names and they attempt to turn entire families, parents, and friends against them for making a free will decision. Their teaching like this is a built in propaganda machine intended to have the flock be in fear of ever leaving. It isn’t based on any love they have for the flock. In all honesty RJ I am sure you have to agree that the what the WT does in these teachings qualifies to your definition of hate?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 7:35 pm
 
Why is it that when JWs (and RJ too, for all that he/she will not answer a simple question about his or her relationship with the JWs) are faced with some basic information about the Watchtower and asked some simple questions they accuse the questioner and bringer of information of ‘hate’?
This seems to be typical. I find it ironic, that though, I wish JWs the world over a life of freedom from the negative and destructive control of the Watchtower, and thus the chance of a fulfilled life, believing JWs, on the other hand, wish me a violent death at Armageddon along with the bulk of the world’s population.
The WT’s lit. and talks are filled with hatred towards the entire world beyond the control of the Gov. Bod. Those who are successfully persuaded to believe and preach the JWs’ message of hate, seem also conditioned to accuse of hatred one who wishes them the joys of the fresh air of freedom.
This is very odd.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 21, 2014 at 12:34 am
 
I read no abuse in my comments, RJ. I read only unanswered questions. In the JW world asking questions of ‘God’s Organisation’ is considered abusive.
Is this, RJ, where your misunderstanding and misconceptions arise?
If you are a JW, RJ, I wish you freedom from the malign and destructive clutches of the Watchtower bosses.
What attitude you might take to life thereafter I have no idea. It is not my affair, and on this thread, contrary to your misconceptions, I have not advocated any theological view, still less belittled those of others. (Save, of course, those of self styled JW defenders, who, when asked to substantiate their defence, have never offered anything save unsubsatnatiated accusations of hate).
Best wishes, RJ, and, if you are a JW, here’s to your escape!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 21, 2014 at 2:03 am
 
Hi Rowland. I think some have more cognitive dissonance and are harder to convince than others. Yesterday I was telling my husband (a born in) about how I don’t care if somebody from the Hall won’t listen to me and they want to believe in the Society, that’s their choice but what bothers me the most is, is the Society taking advantage of the brothers and sisters. I brought up how deceitful that was for the elders to read only the first page of that 4 page letter to the congregations on how the Society wasn’t making the congregations pay back their loans but then a few weeks later, the same elders were to tell (not ask) the congregation how they were going to send the Society the same amount of money every month anyway (not to read the next 3 pages that the elders had in that letter). I told my husband it was a scheme to defraud the congregations out of their money, especially if the loan had already been paid off (ours was). All he could say to me in his come back was “I know how much you care about money” and then he points to his belly and says back to me “I am not going hungry”. I accused him of being programmed and of course he’s not programmed and it’s not a cult. They can’t think. It’s as simple as that.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 21, 2014 at 2:28 am
 
and Rowland to add to my last comment……Before I “woke” up, nobody could have reasoned with me either. I had to get to the bottom, to reach out for some help and that’s when I started looking at so-called “apostate” stuff on the internet. So, right now, I am glad it had to get that bad for me, or I’d still be in that depressing religion.
Last night I was watching a youtube video on how a Mormon Bishop woke up from that religion and it was when he finally thought about what Satan told Eve that she’d be like God if she ate the fruit. It was a simple little thing like that. I remember arguing with my husband and he said something like our religion is the only one that has sayings of everlasting life (quoting the Bible) and I said yes, but that’s what Satan told Eve, that she’d never die. He looked at me funny. It didn’t work on him like that guy from the Mormon religion but at least he stopped talking and thought about it for a moment.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:01 am
 
RJ,
I thank you for attempting to answer my questions on statistics. Your replies were enlightening and I thank you for them.
However, you did not answer my second question, which is a pity, as it was the one I really wanted an answer to.
In the absence of your input, here is my opinion on this site and the survey element.
Candace Conti has been awarded $28 million for the abuse she suffered whilst a JW. You can look this case up, including all the court documents, RJ. We have all the letters to Elders, we have the entire Shepherding the Flock of God book, which is issued to elders only, and is not to be shown to rank and file members. This book has the child protection policy in it. It is plain as day that the child protection policy of the WTBTS is not fit for purpose. We also have numerous other cases that prove this point. Do we have statistics to prove that the child protection policy is not fit for purpose that match your criteria, RJ? No we don’t. In my opinion, we do not need statistics to prove this. Do you agree?
This site’s survey is for information only. It does not describe itself as anything but a chance for JWs and ex JWs to express their opinions on topics and questions set by Lloyd. This survey is then sent to the GB for their perusal.
 Lloyd does not have the infrastructure or the ability (he is viewed as an apostate and he would be shunned and is shunned by his family) to survey all JWs. I’m sure that he would be delighted to have that opportunity! So, his sample size is a small percentage of all JWs. This does not negate its usefulness. It can still aid the GB to understand the concerns of that particular sample group.
RJ, the three points I originally raised with you are facts. The child protection policy is not fit for purpose. Women are not given protection from domestic abuse and are advised to stay with their abusive partner. People who leave or are removed from the JW religion are shunned. These are statements of fact, RJ.
There is evidence to back up all three of the above statements, whether large statistical studies back these up or not.
I hope that you will undertake your own personal research on these topics, RJ. Your JW friends may not even realise that these things are going on in their church. How do you feel about that? Are you going to help your JW friends know what is going on in their church, RJ?
Please, RJ, do your research. There is evidence for all of the problems I raised in my initial response to your first comment.
Finally, I would like to answer your first point. I do not think that this site is biased. If it were, then it would not direct people to read the WT’s publications for themselves, would it? It would not provide the chance for sincere JWs to comment here, would it?
I hope that you will conduct your own research and that you will contribute your expertise to helping children, young people, women and all the rank and file of the JW religion to fully understand what is really going on.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:13 am
 
anonymous,
Dear lady, I am so sorry for the abuse you suffered from your “Christian husband”. It makes me sick to my stomach that any human being could be so cruel and violent, especially to a pregnant woman. I am humbled by your strength and I wish you peace and comfort from your pain and suffering at the hands of this terrible religion.
We are all trying, in our own ways, to bring an end to this disgusting abuse of women in the WTBTS. Your courageous story has made me even more determined to help end this domestic abuse in the WTBTS. Its advice to women suffering this unspeakable crime is disgusting! The bar on remarrying “in the Lord” if a divorce is obtained because of this disgusting abuse if the abuser has not confessed adultery is revolting! It is not in any way Christian.
You have my deep and sincere respect, anonymous. It takes real courage and compassion to leave a cult at your stage in life, and after all the sacrifices you have made for it. You are an excellent example to us all, dear lady.
Peace be with you
 Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:30 am
 
Thanks for all your comments, guys. The more I read of the comments of other people’s JW experience, and this site provides an excellent opportunity, the more I realise how I got off relatively lightly.
Only my mother was a committed JW, and with my sister, I ran away from her to our gran’s as mum was utterly neglectful. So fixated was she on the JW New World fantasy, that she thought it not worth while, in terms of home making or childcare, to ‘patch up the old world’. Was that her phrase or did she pick it up at the Kingdom Hall I wonder.
For all that it was a God delivered absolute TRUTH when I was achild, readers here may be surprised to learn that Armageddon did not occur before the end of the 20th century. With my mind rid of JW misery nonsense by my twenties I have been free to live a fairly fulfilled life.
My detestation of the JWs, if ever expressed to non JWs in pre internet days, met with bafflement. I had begun to wonder whether the problem was with me. It is this site, and dozens, if not hundreds like it, all over the internet, reassure me that I am not alone. It was not me, but something rotten at the heart of JWdom.
Is it merely coincidence that it is not merely this site where JWs and sympathisers have nothing positive to tell about the achievements of JWdom in its 135 year history? No JW, ever, anywhere, has provided such information, and certainly no JW has been able to furnish evidence that there might be any truth in JW TRUTH.
Would a statistically valid and wide ranging survey come up with any positives or any evidence?
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:35 am
 
RJ,
On re reading your comments I spotted an error. You compare the total who have taken the Survey on JW Survey WITH THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE USA.
The whole population of the USA are not JWs.
You should compare the sample size to the total number of JWs worldwide, which is around 7 to 8 million.
Would you like to re-run your numbers with this correction? I’m sure the figures will look a lot more like a decent sample size now.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:42 am
 
Thank you for that Excelsior. It has not been easy and I don’t wish that life on any other person. I want the Watchtower to come crashing down so as to save others from the pain that so many of us have had to go through and are still going through. It doesn’t deserve life. I hope to live long enough to see it.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 21, 2014 at 5:23 am
 
What a great observation! “Many who are alive today, will never die!” I have heard those very words coming from the podium at the Kingdom Hall, and from my mother. I was never a JW.
The every day JW has very little hope to hang onto, so they must cling to this one belief, and somehow find comfort in the fact that the majority of their loved ones are going to be destroyed… Very soon.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 21, 2014 at 5:59 am
 
I wanted to add that I have followed this conversation with great interest, although I admit that I find myself skimming over the lessons on statistics and accusations of hateful speech. It sounds like RJ is on a personal mission of some type. I hope you are able to find some peace.
If it is statistics about the Watchtower that you are looking for, I congratulate you for looking at other opinions and viewpoints. Any JW will tell you that you are NOT to listen to what anyone says about them. They will tell you to, “Go to the source!” (Do you think the JW is going to give you any negative opinion of the Society they have dedicated their lives to, even if they personally have doubts about the men they serve? Not without repercussions… Therefore this website has provided a way for these wounded and frightened people to have a small outlet to voice their concerns, even if it is only to one another.)
Kudos to you, RJ, for checking their references and visiting this site. There are several forums on the internet, filled with people who can tell you the truth about the “Truth.” I hope you will continue your research and evidence gathering.
There are many wounded people who visit here, and all deserve compassion.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. As has been said many times, it helps to know that we are not alone. This religion has infiltrated our family, and has now ripped my family in half.
My feelings about this site (about jwsurvey) are of sheer gratitude. A lot of effort goes into managing a website like this one, and from my viewpoint, it seems that Cedars does a pretty good job at keeping the volume at a dull roar.
I have never been a JW, but sincerely considered it. I have read some recent articles from their magazines, and their proclamations and claims are very dynamic indeed. Their warnings and instructions to the JW people, are alarming to an intelligent reader who is standing outside the tower, simply trying to promote peace within their own family.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 7:57 am
 
anonymous,
I hope that you get your wish, dear lady. I shall do all I can to make it so.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 21, 2014 at 8:18 am
 
The Pew Research Centre is staffed by professionals. Their JW survey confirmed the low level of education, the high level of dropouts and the relative instability of marriage within JWdom. http://freeminds.org/psych/pew_survey.htm
Reply
 
 
 Cedars says:

 October 31, 2014 at 12:17 am
 
RJ – “In the real world, there is not a statistics expert, mathematics scientist that would take value in Cedar’s survey from a scientific view let alone a logical one , so why would the JW’s hierarchy?”
If the simple opportunity for current and Ex JWs to voice their opinion in a survey format doesn’t thrill you, you will be pleased to know that this website has attracted the interests of a University that will be partnering with us to gather meaningful data on shunning. More information will soon follow. Will you be helping us spread the word, so that as many as possible can take part and firm conclusions can be drawn, whatever those may be?
Reply
 
 
 Rene Hader says:

 November 8, 2014 at 9:00 am
 
Thank you John for being a voice for us all. I found you while searching the internet yesterday for support and more information as I am about to turn yet another corner in my non-witness life journey. I appreciate your style of presentation as it is both kind as well as bold. It’s just what I’ve been waiting for. I look forward to being a part of this amazing circle of great people who simply want to live their lives in love and be happy. Good luck and all the best to you, I’m here to join in and help make a difference right along with you…
Reply
 
 
 William Draper says:

 November 16, 2014 at 9:20 pm
 
I have one of the very first books published, that claimed that made the claim that end would be many years ago , I was very impressed by it’s sincerity and depth of knowledge of scripture , but it very wrong about some things .
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 1:56 am
 
William. I also have many , many early books and writings and even current books all “CLAIMING” that the end was imminent. None of he things they have prophesied has come true. Not one.I have apologists to share with me 1 correct prophecy or prediction that the WT has uttered over the years that is accurate. No one has shared any with me. The reason is bc it doesn’t exist. Thousands of failed predictions and flip flopped teachings.
Reply
 
 
 Willow (formerly anonymous) says:

 November 17, 2014 at 4:55 am
 
@Holy Caolli, when two of the elders from my congregation came over to talk to me, I told them that and they came back with 1914. I told them that it was just a coincidence that WW1 broke out in 1914 because Russell had said that by 1914, Armageddon was going to be over etc. and I even told them that I have the early books to prove it and they refused to listen to me.
As long as WW1 broke out in 1914, they all believe that their predictions come true. Facts don’t phase them. They believe what they want to believe.
I am wanting them to talk to me again. I can’t wait. I want them to prove to me that they have a way of approach to God in prayer through Jesus Christ. I can prove to them in our literature that they can not approach God through prayer unless they are of the 144,000. I am chomping at the bits over that little piece of information.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 November 17, 2014 at 6:32 am
 
Willow: GOOD LUCK! As you said yourself, facts do not phase them.
 Neither do quotes from their own current or extinct literature. They just “KNOW they have the Truth.”
There is no reasoning or proof that exists, that will wake up someone who has been convinced to follow their self-proclaimed “Faithful and Discreet Slave.”
I wish you well. Congratulations on your escape.
The Watchtower has succeeded in ripping my family apart, simply because I decided not to become a member. (I never joined, but am being punished now as an apostate by my parents and sister. My niece just got baptized at the age of 11.)
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 12:34 pm
 
Willow. The 1914 teaching is SOOOOOO fake that I don’t even think the WT really Believes it anymore. It has been proven to be a stretch of the imagination and even Russell’s words and teachings are taken out of Context to try to prove hey were correct. Besides that the WT are the only ones that I know of that teach that Jerusalem fell in 607 bce. Scholars agree on the year 588 bce so that would throw their entire teaching off course. Alos at the time Russell and the early WT taught that they came to the conclusion by counting the distance in the Pyramids to some focal point and concluded it was 2520 feet or something like that and applied it to the prophecy of Daniel. It is so Bizarre how they cam to that point? It is actually “NUMEROLOGY” which is a non-biblical teaching. Ask the Elders if they came to that conclusion by using a unscriptural teaching is it really from God? Also if the 1914 teaching was correct why hasn’t Armegeddon already arrived since for 60 plus years tthye emphatically Declared that , “This generation( 1914 ) will be know means pass away” before ALL these things occur. Remember this, Many Elders are caught up in the same mental struggle that other JW’s are but are just going through the motions and no doubt they are thinking the same thoughts about the WT and questioning the teachings. I know myself as a former long time Elder I was question many many things for years and after a while I just had a “Crisis of Conscience” and had to admit to myself that it just isn’t true and that it is a Cult.
Reply
 
 
 Willow (formerly anonymous) says:

 November 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm
 
Holy Conolli to add to your comment. I even told the elders to look in the back in the B1 index of the new grey Bible with the pictures and it says “ABOUT 1914 C.E. Jesus hurls the serpent, Satan, to the earth, confining him there for a short time” and that didn’t even phase them.
All these years, the Society has always insisted and still insists that in 1914, Satan for a FACT threw Satan out of heaven down to the earth and that is why WW1 broke out. Putting the word ABOUT 1914, couldn’t have been an accident, especially since Jehovah apparently blessed them in making the new Bible with all heat and such.
I also think that many elders must have unanswered questions in their minds too but it’s such a drastic step to walk away so they chose to not think about any questions.
That had to be so hard for you. I can’t even imagine how had it was for you.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 1:53 pm
 
It was very difficult to walk away. The many years in the JW ‘s and all your friends are JW’s and as you know you cannot have a open discussion if you have different thoughts or disagree w anything. It is not allowed so that puts mental pressure on a thinking person. I was very torn in my decision. Especially bc my wife was a staunch fanatical believer and still is . I cannot have an open discussion with her at all. She likes to call all the changes they make as “progressive” Revelation? I kindly point out all the ridiculous points of view they have on everything from Education to medical and flip flop doctrinal changes and she just won’t discuss it. It took me a while to break away. I did it slowly as in my case it was the best thing for me to become a fader. I can’t believe now that I went along with that craziness for so long.
Reply
 
 
 Willow (formerly anonymous) says:

 November 17, 2014 at 4:09 pm
 
I can’t have a discussion with my husband either so I understand what you are going through. No friends from the hall to understand and not even your own family. I keep learning more and more from every book I read from former Witnesses and they make me wonder how in the world I could have been so blind all those years.
There is no way that I’d go back to the Kingdom hall now. It’s so clear to me now. Even all the young people who have been disfellowshipped are related to those who still go go the Kingdom hall so I am not even free to talk to them if I should run into them because I am afraid they will tell on me to their parents. It is amazing just how twisted this religion is and how I was fooled by it. The Watchtower is a master at manipulation. I pity all those who are wasting their lives in it.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 4:26 pm
 
Since I have been gone for 20 years now if I see someone on the street who is DF’d I have no problem talking with them or having a discussion. The WT instills Fear in people to keep them in line. That fear left me a Long long time go. I have even had GB people spend the night at my house in recent years and I have no fear of them nor do I care what they think. They are just manipulators who I think believe their own lies. I think they have bought into their own weird interpretations of the F& D slave and believe they are spoke people for God. To think that they teach that you are not allowed to speak with your own Children. Father, Mother bc they may disagree with some teachings or decide being a JW is not for them is worse than a Dictatorship.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 22, 2014 at 6:50 am
 
Holy Connoli,
Did I read your comment correctly? You have had governing body members in your home? OMG! How on earth did that happen?
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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303 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Holy Conolli says:

 November 22, 2014 at 12:00 pm
 
Yes I have on more than 1 occasion. They have spent the night at my house and I had not been to meetings in years. My wife is a BIG time JW and she likes to Hob nob with the Big Shots and has some connections at Bethel so when they came out to give “SPECIAL” talks at the assemblies etc she goes to work on getting them to stay at the house. There were about 25 JW’s at the house to greet him and “LISTEN” to the wisdom he brought. I was polite and I am a good host so I was there as well. Of course I did not make an issue or anything I just observed the entire ordeal. I wasn’t there to cause a scene I just let them be. There wasn’t anything special what he said he pretty much would just quote the WT verbatim when they asked questions. The JW’s always talk negatively about Creature worship and say the reason they do not celebrate B-days is bc it draws attention to the person instead of God? Well, when a GB comes around there is nothing but attention drawn to that person bc they feel he is like Jesus Christ himself almost. It was an interesting experience. To be fair he was very pleasant and cordial and polite while he was here. Of course my wife wanted me to engage him in a conversation about the issues I have with the WT and their teachings and duff prophecies but I did not want to get into it with him bc I already know what he is going to say. He is going to say the same thing that the WT says about the light getting brighter and how they are the only ones that are doing the Preaching work and all the things we have heard for years. It wasn’t the time or the place for that conversation plus I am sure he did not want to go into it.He would probably label me an apostate if we had that discussion. Not that I care but I just did not want to do it. When I was on a visit to Bethel in the late 80’s I had dinner and a few beers with Fred Franz. He was kind of funny. Almost blind at the time. When he finished his beer he slammed it down and said, “Another Dead Soldier”.
Reply
 
 Jane Delane says:

 August 12, 2015 at 3:47 pm
 
I appreciate your comment but would like to say that, I have had only a few professors in my college experience that were great speakers. They all were very knowledgeable but some can get your attention like none others. Well, it is the same with the GB. They are very knowledgeable (not perfect). We all know they are not close to Jesus, but human like all others. However, we do feel it is a privilege to meet them, no different than meeting a great actor/actress, musician or writer. And yes, this would not be a time to be combative with questions. What I do is write to the society when I have questions. I have several times wanted answers regarding issues. I remember my dad would not let my brother play football because he felt this would hinder his worship. My brother and other young men were also not allowed to play sports. This led to all of them eventually as adults leave the organization. Yet, when I moved and went to another congregation, I noticed that three young men played sports and remained active in their worship. Today,many years later, I also have allowed my sons to play sports and they were raised in the organization. I always remind them that God comes first and they have to determine if they can do both. I have six children in which four are adults. Two are active and two are inactive. We as adults may learn the same but we may not apply the same way. This is why we can’t blame the brothers, congregation, or the organization for imperfections. The fact is who else is doing the things that JW’s are doing worldwide? Nobody. We are constantly reminded through instruction whether meetings, or conventions that we are imperfect and need to be corrected constantly through the bible, but the focus is doing what is required to save our life. Thats it! how complicated is it. I was inactive for 18 years and never felt better for coming back. Any questions I have or feelings about what I have learned, I pray. For example, the society now teaches that emphasis should be placed on a higher education. This is not to say that we tell our kids, don’t go to college. No, we encourage them that nothing is wrong with schooling and gaining more knowledge in order to assist with a job. We emphasize the need not to focus on higher education and lack in their worship. I am a holder of two degrees and my oldest daughters have degrees. One daughter was in college while she studied and got baptized. She now has a degree and the brothers did not look down on her. I attended meetings when I was finishing my degree and my son wants to be a professional baseball player. The one issue that I discuss is worship comes first and we should not sacrifice our worship for something else. I also point to actors, musicians, and athletes who are JW’s. Some have fallen away and some are doing both. Yet, some elders will discourage young ones for higher education altogether. However, they will certainly not be put out the congregation for choosing to go to college. In all religions, some take things to an extreme, and all religions are talked about in a negative way. I have friends from different religions who complain all the time, but they still go.
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 anonymous says:

 August 12, 2015 at 4:56 pm
 
Jane Delane, I got baptized in 1966 and I don’t remember anywhere in those 49 years where the Society has encouraged higher education. Right away when I was reading your post, I was wondering why you were commenting as you got to go to college. Most of the rest of us were shamed into not going to college but at the same time, seeing so many people coming into the “truth” AFTER HAVING A COLLEGE EDUCATION and because of that degree being able to have nice home and nice cars etc. but the rest of us who listened to the Society and didn’t go to college, having to scrape by with nothing to retire on. I don’t get where you have found in any of the publications where the Society has encouraged higher education. Can you tell us where you found that? Even the latest JWbroadcasting episodes are still discouraging going to college. Are you for real or are you pretending to be a Witness?
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 steve Middleton says:

 August 15, 2015 at 11:11 am
 
I was born in 1965 and the society as I was brought up condemned higher education and careers outright, they likened any attempt at achievement or success as ‘polishing the brass on a sinking ship’.
Armageddon was to come no later than 1984, three score years and ten after Christ came back to the vicinity in the earth in 1914.
All non witnesses would die in a Revelation prophesied destruction where the blood would run as high as the ‘horses bridles’. Conveniently having got all of their predictions wrong they claim a clearer knowledge these days; of what!!
For Gods sake however intelligent you believe yourself to be you are mad to listen to the insanity of this organisation, it is a manipulative cult, I got out years ago.
Unfortunately elderly relatives still believe ‘the truth’ and I try to keep quiet for their sake, but the JWs obsessive, extreme behaviors need bringing under control with immediate effect, it ruins lives by the day.
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 holy Connoli says:

 August 13, 2015 at 11:48 am
 
to Jane Delane: You sound sincere Jane but what you are saying is JUST NOT TRUE. I was a active JW for over 20 years and an Elder for over 12 years and a MS for over 5 years. I gave talks at assemblies, conducted the school and had GB stay at my house several times. My wife has ben a pioneer for over 15 years and still is. The WT definitely opposes and talks very bad and is AGAINST college education ( unless they benefit from it ) Please google a you tube talk by Governing Body member Garrett Loesh that he gave a few years ago in Italy and he Blasts higher education. I was baptized in the 70’s and my entire JW years college education was more than just frowned on it was actually considered unchristian. We all know iot was taught that way so to say it is a conscience matter now in the JW world is not true. Sure you won’t be dfd for it but you will not be considered spiritually strong and you could even be labeled BAD ASSOCIATION! It is a RIDICULOUS position to take and it is also unchristian and it is what a CULT does to control its members. Look up recent WT articles about college education and see the Stupid archaic nonsense position they take. Also on Sports, As a former Elder the CO told me if My son played o the school sports team I would be removed as an elder bc I was setting a bad example? I regret it very much to this day that I caved into his stupid reasoning and the CULT pressure. and di dnot allow my son that great experience. I have apologized to him for that.That was coming direct from the WT Society . Read what they say in young people ask. They are adamantly against any JW’s playing sports n School. Of course a few professional athletes play that may be JW’s but the position and the Pressure to not play is very strong.Jane? You say who else is doing the things JW’s do Worldwide? Well, What are they doing? Standing on the corners or in high traffic areas with an applecart promoting their teachings? Also it is an ever changing teaching that has never had 1 THING or prophecy they say come true! NOT ONE JW PREDICTION has ever come true. ZERO ACCURACY but yet they claim to be sprit directed by Jehovah? What are the JW’s doing hat is so great. They certainly don’t feed the poor or help the poor outside of a few JW’s when a tragedy strikes or they may include a few “WORLDLY” people and give a few handouts to them for news publicity. They do not have a program to help NON JW’s. They do not take care of he sick. All they do is promote their own teachings and push magazines all the time claiming they are preaching the good news of the kingdom that supposedly came in 1914 and we all know that is nit true and they even almost now admit it. Other religions are much more humanly kind to people than JW’s are and they help anyone regardless of their faith. So what else do JW’s do? Well, they destroy families through shunning and DFing, thy cause mental torture on DFd people causing many to commit suicide, they cause death by teaching to refuse Blood transfusions, they stop people from making a decent living by discouraging college education, They control what you can do and how you can dress, what kind of hair and beards you can have, they offer NOTHING for the young JW’s except free labor at Bethel, No youth programs, no professional counseling and they PROMOTE child abuse by their position on NOT protecting sex abuse victims from pedophiles by their position on the ignorant 2 witness rule. They want to protect the ORG against lawsuits but do not care about the victim. Besides that they harm the environment by printing Millions and millions of books and magazines that just get thrown in the garbage. So I guess that is what the JW’s do.
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 anonymous says:

 November 22, 2014 at 3:19 pm
 
Hi Holy Canolli, your wife probably thinks if one of the Governing Body comes over, then that person will bring you back because they are just that much better than the others at convincing you or has she given up on you? I’d give my front teeth to be able to talk to them face to face. The first thing I’d ask is how can they prove 607, then 1914 and then 1919 and how many files do they have on child abusers in New York and why Did Garrett Losch say he didn’t have anything to do with the Watchtower. If you started on stuff like that when your wife had them over, that would be the last time and she’d never forgive you, would she? But what it would do is show them up for what they are too.
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 Holy Conolli says:

 November 23, 2014 at 6:12 am
 
Hi Anonymous
I have brought up those points SO MANY times to my wife but I t just goes in one ear and out of the other. 607 bce, 1914, 1919, organ transplants, Shunning, higher education, duff prophecies, flip flopping on Blood transfusion, the United Nations debacle, Child abuse, the 2 witness rule, Pyramology,House of Princes in San Diego, amd do may other things. She likes to use the Illustration that the T is progressive and compare it to Medical Science? She sais medical Science doesn’t believe or practice what they did 50, 100, 200 years ago do they? They used to NOT wash after delivering a baby but later found out disease and germs are passed on to others if they do not. It was bc they did not have the Knowledge at that time. When it was “REVEALED” to them they changed.Or with Penicillin…they did not have the knowledge until it was “revealed” or discovered to them. SO it is “progressive Revelation” to her thinking and they keep adjusting until they get it right like the sailor that is “TACKING: as he crosses the oceans waters to get to their ultimate destination. They may go off course for a while but ALWAYS get back on course.
That argument I say is not a comparison bc Medical Science never claimed to be a spokesperson for Almighty God and the WT even after having made their o called Adjustments have gone back and forth on the same doctrine many, many times. Also after all of these adjustments the WT cannot still show after 140 years as a religion ! THING OR PROPHECY that they predicted has come true. Medical science has proved it by the very fact of their success in stopping and eradicating some disease and healing people. I did not go in that direction with the GB when he was here. I di share the article with her about Garrett refusing o testify and she said well there are 2 sides to every story and this is probably Media Bias. In the near future I think the GB will be coming again.
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 anonymous says:

 November 23, 2014 at 6:23 am
 
Hi Holy Canolli. I feel your frustration. There is nothing I can say that my husband can absorb either. I have so much hatred for the Governing Body members right now, that I don’t know how I could hold it in if I was to meet them. I hope when they come next, that you can say something to them that will get your wife’s attention but more than likely, she’s looking at them like they are infallible like my husband does. I have to hand it to the Society (cult). They have crossed every T and dotted every i when it comes as to how to brainwash their idolator worshippers into following them, no matter how silly it is.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:03 pm
 
Anonymous: Wellit has been almost a year since wel ats communicated. Meanwhile My wife just came back from the annual meeting and hanging around certain GB memebrs and their wives and she thinks the meetings and “New Light” was “AWESOME” as she says and calls it progressive revelation!
I asked he if I was right in the things I told her would be announced and she said well, some of it we are nt ending the TS we are just “adjusting to a new platform”.? Wow. anything they tell them they will believe.
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 Holy Conolli says:

 December 3, 2014 at 5:39 am
 
Anonymous
I feel your pain but try not to hate. I think if we do that it hurts us more and gives them some satisfaction and they will always make the claim like ..SEE…How unhappy that person is now that they left the Organization? They say see, “there is no happiness outside the organization”. I am sure you have heard that over the years. Hating what they do and did is normal but I think we harm ourselves if we let personal hate eat at us. Be happy you awoke and are no longer under their control. Reach inside yourself and find your peace.
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 Wayne Bruce says:

 January 29, 2015 at 10:51 pm
 
Hi Cedars
This is a response not to yourself but to Paul Grundy (if you can please contact him, I failed). His article on beards in the JW movement possibly omitted an interesting comment I heard from a then elderly JW over 30 years ago about how the Russellites wore beards like CTR after his death, whereas those who followed Rutherford [JW forerunners] went clean-shaven.
 Maybe needs research/verification.
 Anyhow, All the best
 Wayne (ExJW)
 Australia
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 Sheila l says:

 March 12, 2015 at 2:44 pm
 
Bravo, spot on and more accurate then the others I’ve seen. This needs to be told with truth not made up backwards crap I have read so far. I have been kicked out 4 times now and this time was the charm. I didn’t even get a meeting at the Hall or letter just a surprise call saying you’re out. I didn’t even know I had been under investigation as this time wasn’t guilty. Now I am being called
 Apostate for talking and then r questioning jws after being born into it 54 yes to be exact Thank You
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 Gilbert says:

 April 24, 2015 at 5:47 pm
 
Keep up the work!
 I had a falling out with a loved one over the disfellowshiping issue.
 She misunderstood me as a JW but I respect why she did so.
 There is a difference between “Shaming” and “Shunning”. As one of JW I do not believe in Disfellowshiping. I DO believe in Shaming. BUT NOT ON A CONGREGATION LEVEL! I practiced shaming on a relative who was way off course. The result is now a happy marriage and a son. But is was a ONE on ONE dialoge and shaming. My father, a Catholic, did the same to me when I was 17. It changed my life. Shame is good when done appropriately.
 JW heirachy has done a dis-service to Jesus Christ in this regard. Imagine Jesus asking you to write a letter and review it in 6 months to see if you can be forgiven? My goodness
 I hope one day to make amends with her.
 People are more valuable than organizations. But not Watchtower. The “Organization” is more valuable than the people. John 3:16
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 Jane Delane says:

 August 12, 2015 at 4:24 pm
 
I once had a problem with disfellowshipping but when I got older and became a parent, I then understood it. It is different today than many years ago in the organization. I remember when a scripture was read before someone was disfellowshipped and then we would pretty much know what they did wrong. That to me is shaming. However, I realize that this disfellowshipping has a good purpose. First of all, one only gets disfellowshipped if they are not repentant, or continue to believe a certain way that is against bible laws or principals. For example, You cannot admit to smoking, fornicating, being an alcoholic, and you are not sorry or do not want to change behavior. It would only be right to disfellowship this person. If I had an adult child living in my house and he got on drugs, in trouble with the law at times, cursed and disrespected me. I will no doubt put him out because this would be unhealthy and bad for the rest of my children to see. Doesn’t mean that I would stop loving or talking to him. It means that in order for him to come around he would have needed to take steps to be back. First, be sorry and then take actions to correct bad behavior. I would not want any of the other children to hang out with him either. A disfellowshipped person can still attend the meetings for spiritual food and he could only speak with the elders on certain matters. When our children do wrong, we discipline. What discipline we choose is our choice. Its too bad if the kids don’t like it. It is a form of correction. In the congregation, elders have to determine what discipline is needed. This is a difficult task because they are imperfect too and have to go by prayer to determine. Just as some jury’s, elders can get it wrong. But just as people unjustly put in prison and punished, they work on getting their name cleared or punishment corrected. We are taught forgiveness and even humans unjustly convicted have learned to forgive. However, for the ones who are just given a reproof in the congregation (Like me), I have learned from it. I willingly came before the elders to tell them of something I had did. This was difficult because it was embarrasing for me, but I was truly repentfull and acknowledged my error. No announcement was made but they prayed with me and gave instruction. I was truly grateful. The ones who never come back from being disfellowshipped are the ones who have allowed their pride stand in the way, or they decided not to change the wrong. I have sat next to a couple in the meeting who got married but had fornicated before getting married. They were able to speak with others but were not allowed to answer or go into field service for a period of time. The couple still went to meetings and hung in there until they got their full privileges back (no complaint)0. Nobody likes to be punished, whether jail, fines, or in Jehovah’s organization disfellowshipped or whatever. Parents punish out of love, the same with God.
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 apologist says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
you have already erased everything I have written
 you are a clown with a hidden agenda working for satan
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 anonymous says:

 June 8, 2015 at 2:38 pm
 
Geez apologist, get a life!!
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 Frank James says:

 June 16, 2015 at 1:21 am
 
‘Apologist’. Fortunately, Gilbert is right on the money. The idea of shunning is a mean, cruel way of ‘punishing’ a person for using the free will that is a gift from God anyway. By shunning ones own children, who are another gift from God, is certainly not honouring Jehovah, but in actuality, dishonouring Him. No where in the scriptures does it say to abandon your children, siblings or spouse because they have their own thoughts on religion. We are ALL different and that’s the way God made us.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 June 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm
 
@apologist. Typical JW answer. Anyone that disagrees w the WT is from Satan. Case closed. Ears Closed. Eyes Closed. Mind Closed. Heart Closed. Apologist, PLEASE show mw 1 prophecy the WT has predicted that has come true in their short 135 years of existence. I can show you 100’s of ones they uttered that did not come true. Just 1 Apologist.
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 Wanderer says:

 June 16, 2015 at 5:03 am
 
Here is some JW prophecy. The 1920 leaflet & talk millions now living will never die? Or the generation of 1914 being alive at Armageddon? Or constructing Beth Sarim? Or………No, I give up!
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 Holy Connoli says:

 June 16, 2015 at 11:44 am
 
@wanderer. Here are some more prophecies from the WT. The King of the North will prevail ( Russia ) they will gain control over the oil of the world ( Daniels prophecy book ) the year 1925 is more important in prophecy than 1925, Jehovah dwells on his own planet, Just a few more months before Armageddon ( 1942 )
 The last days began in early 1800’s when Napoleon was taking over Europe, Then it began in 1874,Mussolini plays a major part in Bible prophecy, The Princes like King David will be resurrected before Armageddon,and we can expect them at any minute! Judge Rutherford is so CONVINCED that King David will be resurrected he SIGNS OVER THE GRANT DEED to the home in Beth Sarim in San Diego California! ( A real Nut case ) The flip flop again on the what is a generation when it is evident that the prediction that this generation WILL NOT pass away is not coming true. The Flip flop again on the F&D Slave who it is and what they do? Remids me of David Koresh and the WACO TEXAS
 situation.
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 Frank James says:

 June 16, 2015 at 1:28 am
 
Holy Connoli
 To be able to show 1 ‘prophesy’ that the JW organisation had shown to be true, one would need to be blind, deaf and have a very cold heart. Satan does not even come into the discussion
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 Average Joe says:

 July 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm
 
I think an in-depth article about JWs & beards would be good for discussion.
 This is such an American JW man made rule and results in having privileges removed if you’re unfortunate enough to be in a congregation where the elders have decided you’re worldly if you have a beard!
 Interesting how very well respected individuals like surgeons, bank managers (hmmm maybe not so much now with their pay rises), doctors have beards but the WTS still infers they are bad. Note the absence of them in any of their publications when JWs are portrayed. I think the reason is because no American politician has a beard so the WTS being based there is influenced by such thinking. What’s bizarre is how they don’t have the spine to come out and directly say that they don’t like beards on JWs (although I’m not too keen on women with them!)
 I have had various discussions with self-righteous elders over the years and I quote Isaiah 5:20 ‘woe to those who say good is bad’. What’s more unnatural: shaving your beard off that God has given you or letting it grow? To judge someone’s spirituality by their facial hair is ridiculous. What makes the elders that are against beards even more like the Pharisees (apart from their laws of men over God’s principles) is the fact that they themselves allow (or even wear) moustaches. IT’S STILL FACIAL HAIR!
“Ah but in some cultures a man of God with a beard is not accepted” came the reply in one of their stock letters to me as a teenager so I wrote back politely asking them to tell me which cultures these were… still waiting for a response.
 Many town congregations in the North of the UK where I’m originally from accept beards, many reasonable elders actually sporting them, realising that it is not our place to enforce personal opinions on others as regards to modest dress & grooming. I just love the look on American JW faces when they come over to the UK and the first thing they say is “wow! You guys are allowed to have beards!”
Maybe TPT Morris thinks beards are designed by homosexuals too!
 OK rant over. Peace & I’m out of here…
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 holy Connoli says:

 July 22, 2015 at 2:11 am
 
Average Joe. I have had the same arguments you make about the position the WT has on Beards! Totally ridiculous and also totally un scriptural! They would try to make the argument that it could “Stumble” somebody? I would say really? How would it stumble somebody? Well, they might think you are a radical or a Hippy…yes they would say Hippy, lol. ( shows how out of time they are ) Then they would say that Ministers of Christendom wear beards on TV but we JW”S do not.We don’t want to imitate False religion! Then they would use comparisons to stumbling a brother or sister if they wore overly “suggestive” or low cut clothing to expose their breasts or other nonsense reasoning. SO I said you are comparing wearing a beard which Jehovah gave us to possible sexual immorality? It would turn into an argument every time but of course never could they use a scripture to support their stupid reasoning. I had a JW friend from Germany who would visit us every few years and he had a full beard and would go to the KH in California and everyone would be shocked. He said it was no Big deal In Germany although the official position in the WT and Magazines is NO BEARDS for Men he still did it.
When I was an Elder we would have Stupid meetings about a few brothers that were starting to grow beards and how we needed to have a special talk about it. One very Nice Brother who was a school teacher and had a education degree wore a beard and the Elders gave him a bad time even refused to work in Field Service with him. I would defend him in the meetings and say don’t we have better things to worry about in life and the cong then this guy wearing a beard?
Do you really think Jehovah the Grand Creator gives a Rats Arse about a JW wearing a beard! Leave him alone I said as he is a kind and loving person. They said if he insists on wearing a beard then we do not have to work with him in the Field service or we can take “privileges” away from him in the Congregation. At the same time their was this other publisher in our Cong that was over 300 1lbs and his belly would hang out over his pants ( a nice Fat Person ) and he was allowed to go door-door even though it was extremely embarrassing to anyone that would work with him in Field service. I mean this guy was SUPER OBESE and could barely walk upstairs.The point is he stumbled me and others was not a good example and drew attention to himself ( all the Dumb Arse arguments they use against beards and grooming ) yet nothing was ever said to him or done to him about his problem and their were many others that were EXTREMELY Over weight and looked abnormal but they preferred to pick on men with beards? They have nothing else positive to do except to think up BS issues that have no value. Personally , I think the reason for it is bc a few GB members are from the 30’s and 40’s and they are stuck in a stupid time warp and basically they are just Ignorant and unreasonable. They create rules and regualtions EXACTLY like the Pharisees and exalt themselves above God.
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 Faithful Witness says:

 July 22, 2015 at 6:43 am
 
Thanks for the great observations, Joe!
 I find it interesting how they can use the origins of a tradition, phrase or holiday, as evidence that it is part of the world, and should be avoided… yet they require men to wear neckties. Neckties originated as part of a military uniform.
 They cling to rules & traditions they like, and are so judgmental of anyone who dares to question the authority given to them by (?? what is the current belief on this ?? I have fallen behind on TRUTH updates…)
I remember when we were studying with the JW’s, and they compared celebrating Christmas, to picking up a dirty lollipop out of the gutter… (“What Does The Bible REALLY Teach?” – read this book and find out!!)
Logic and reason have no significance. Avoid critical thinking! We have the TRUTH. “I just know we have the TRUTH.” (repeat…)
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 Faithful Witness says:

 July 22, 2015 at 12:29 pm
 
Joe, thank you for your comments. You make some very good points.
JW’s follow rules, that are made up by men, American men, who claim they speak for God himself. It seems that their organization prides itself on being absurd & different, so they can be recognized. I listened to them for years, before I finally just had to give up on having a logical conversation with any of the ones that came here to “teach” me about the Bible. They will never admit when they are wrong. Honestly, I’ve never seen a group of “loving” Christians, who are so completely self-absorbed, puffed up with pride and priest-like privilege. Anyone who doesn’t do things “our” way, is condemned to destruction.
(This is not to say that there aren’t many JW people who have been nothing but kind and loving to me, back when I was a potential recruit.)
I have never understood what they actually believe about Jesus, but most of their rules are based on assumptions & conclusions that do not actually come from the Bible. Your point about facial hair is a great example.
Another dress code rule that contradicts itself, is their insistence that men wear neckties. The necktie originated as part of the military uniform, and its history is well-documented. They are so hung up on avoiding anything that has pagan origins, but apparently this one is ignored, so they can be acceptable to the world? Celebrating Christmas is compared to eating a lollipop you found in the gutter, in their Bible Teach book, but they have no problem with ignoring the commands of Christ, to feed the poor, do your good deeds in secret (field service reports given to men: Matthew 6:1-6)
 The long list of their weird inconsistencies, just keeps growing, as the leaders become more desperate for power. The internet will end up destroying the Watchtower, but they will use it as evidence of Satan’s attack on the one true religion.
What a sad and confusing existence it must be for the innocent people who have dedicated their lives to this organization, just waiting and hoping the world will end…soon! (work work work! time is short!)
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 Frankie Augusta says:

 August 15, 2015 at 10:11 am
 
I believe that shunning is non bi lical and that the scripture by the apostel paul was taking out of context.
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 holy Connoli says:

 August 15, 2015 at 10:51 am
 
Frankie: So what do you think it means and how is it taken out of context?
 Other religions use the same scripture to shun. Of Course the JW’s use it to STOP any free thinking or any rational discussion about the scriptures and they use it to silence any different opinion.
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 peter rogers says:

 August 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm
 
jehovahs witnesses are not a charity. they dont do anything practical for anyone.
all they do is take donations from there members, and give then nothing back in return.
children at them meetings find it verry stressfull due to there being nothing there for children, they have to sit quetly throughout there meetings and its even worse for them during all the big assemblies of theres were children have to sit quetly from around 8 am till 5pm.
that is not good for children.
some single moms sitting at the kingdom hall back room with there children have mental health issues going on in there heads, they get really agitated by some of the comments they are hearing from the elders on stage, and are really struggling to keep the children quet at the same time.
( nobody ) cares about how what they are hearing may be causing them psychological problems, and even some of them children are developing psychological problems, because they are picking up that there mom is not happy there.
its difficult for them moms to leave the jws since everything out in the world they ever had has been taken from them, all they know is the jws organisation.
you cannot aproach some of these moms and others members who have simular type of psychological problems, because the watchtower society is constantly warning them about so called outside apostates, hence they are in catch 22 situation, going round in circles developing mental health issues.
the simple answer to dealing with that situation is for these single moms and others etc to keep in mind every single person, including every religious organisation true or faulse, if such a thing really dose exist will all be answerable to jesus, jehovah, the vary allmighty himself.
no matter what any religous organisation may say, they ( cannot ) give you life, its not in there hands to do so in the first place, the only people who have the authority to give life is the vary allmighty himself and jesus the mediator.
jws vary own lifes will be thrown at the mercy of jesus himself.
any religion that stops bible study house groups world wide has to ve view’d with suspicioun, thats how much them governing body members in america have on its millions of members, and nobody questions it.
the word theocracy itself came from josephus the historian, which the jws applied to themselfs.
personally speaking, i really feal the governing body of jehovahs witnesses are a bunch of creeps, especially by the way they try to defend themselfs via broadcast about them child abuse cases.
peter. online name.
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 Lorraine says:

 September 12, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
Hi i have only recently found your website. I was one of jehovahs witnesses for over 35yrs but the past five years have not been active i would be here alnight if I was to tell my whole story needless to say I’ve been a full time pioneer elders wife been to pioneer school been involved with bethal projects etc etc etc
 I have been so pleased to find your website as everything I have read has only validated the feelings i had been struggling with for so long. I was feeling very alone but refused to be controlled by a In perfect man made organizion . So good to say how i feel. L
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 Markw1509 says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:13 am
 
Good to hear from you, Lorraine. You will find a lot of friends on Cedar’s site, people who have released themselves from the WT shackles and have survived, thrived, grown and developed outside of a controlling cult. Keep visiting and contribute if you feel the need to say what you feel. Welcome to the great crowd (of free-from-the WT-happy people!)! Lol!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 12, 2015 at 5:22 pm
 
Extraordinary you were in for so many years and now are out of it. I feel I would like to chat. Maybe that is my isolation speaking? I was out sooner but the after effects are no less strange. If stranger were possible it would qualify. Anyhow I hope you feel you have some people of reassurance to relate with? That is the hard aspect. I hope things work out for you?
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 13, 2015 at 3:40 am
 
Just a mild point that may not even enter your situation, since it is often so well integrated into the social strata: in my case it has become overtly obvious beyond all reasonable doubt; that JW high level are Freemasons, or have their own networks which are allied to it, and as such the network one becomes aware of over time that imposes similar sanction and subversion is everywhere. I tried to locate people who I feel are not and I cannot. A shock really!!! In fact I hardly trust even this site to not have their spies posing as those who’ve left! Just worth noting; in my experience!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 13, 2015 at 9:15 am
 
Ray
How and why do you say th e JW high lever ( GB ) is connected to the Freemasons? From history I know Russell had some connection although he personally denied it but I have read JW WT articles where they say Freemasons are pagan and devil worshipers etc. So what evidence do you have that they are connected with the Freemasons?
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 19, 2015 at 12:53 pm
 
The Jehovah’s Witnesses say: 1) The Royal Family are what? 2) Parliament is what? 3) Every religion except their belief is run by whom? 4) Financial markets are run by whom? 5) Military are under the power of whom?
Correction: Their elite group of males state your 5 replies to the above; whence all baptised followers, whether coaxed into thinking they got to that point by REASON, will be obliged for life to agree or thereafter be considered as in league with one or more of your answers and duly treated with perpetual suspicion.
Quite surprising considering the END ought have happened before “The generation of 1914” have passed away; update 1975; update blank; blank – I once had quite the extensive collection of bound mind-bending volumes going back to the 1930s but gave it to charity after being surprised my ex, who was still in, declined any interest on our separating, without so much as a word; which was years already of zero dialogue – less of a surprise!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 19, 2015 at 7:54 pm
 
Ray: no disrespect intended but you are not answering my questions about the JW’s and the Freemasons as you claim.The JW’s beleive every organization except theirs is from Satan. There is God’s organization and everything outside of the Watchtower Society ( the World ) and all are from Satan not just freemasons.
Your answer is not clear and doesn’t stick to the subject. Personally I think you are way off the mark but thanks for trying to answer.
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 23, 2015 at 2:02 am
 
Mmmm? It’s potentially either/or/both ! Insider trading; double agency both ways; shared misinformation pummelling an undisclosed isolated target & due the disconnect surrounding that individual/family, utilising infrastructure to offer “degrees” and rewards for tasks that are essentially abusive whilst posing as moral agency; ongoing and part of clandestine “congregation building” for further utility in wider contexts and applications. Various. Or even incognito stalking replicating JW strategy around a target in a social context? Who would arrange such a fiasco? Network their family & fund repeat “love bombing” as a technique with an unknown agenda? “Secular preaching” splitting techniques as wider advantage to subversion and “indoctrination”. Please advise? Well concealed malevolence deliberating removals of all respectful trust or dialogue. A capitalist/fascist agenda as its evidence based motive with how the individual or target group realises they are being treated; any which way. Obviously zero lucidity (ostracisation); as if divine and morally superior – but posing “religious hack strategy” for hidden agendas. Telephone engineers will be just one “converted shadow JW” – ministerial servant to the elders commands and feedback to their governing body. Other “congregations” make a chain that stretches. Their “scripture” is interesting but it’s beyond the scope of this reply. Feel free to inform and educate me; life is so lonely its difficult to access reliable information.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 23, 2015 at 2:58 am
 
Ray: Now I know you are just playing around and that is fine, having fun with words and phrases and sounding “far out”. Ok, but I don’t have time for this at the moment but I must say your words can be entertaining and they were. You should be a song writer for Bob Dylan.
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 26, 2015 at 4:04 pm
 
Maybe, like you, I ought try a pseudonym? It did cross my mind you were one of the aforementioned? Who would know?
I’m here too long already. Hardly worth my brief call – as they say. Lucidity is rare in any context!
Adios.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 26, 2015 at 6:15 pm
 
Ray: You never know? I might be part of the “Great Conspiracy” of the Free Masons like the WT is. As the WT slowly and insidiously tries to take over the world with it’s subliminal messages.Free Masons are great brick layers.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:41 am
 
@RAY. I thought RAY was a pseudonym?
 I mean it is such an original name. You might as well publish your last name, telephone number, email address also and address of your house
 so you can have the Elders and C.O.pay you a direct “HIT” I mean visit.
Reply
 
 
 
 Rudy says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:32 am
 
DEAR John
 Could you help me today? I need some advice. I recently disassociated. My wife is waking up and I need to help her before she tells the c.o. what she thinks and is dfd. Her whole family are in the cult so she has much to lose….. I need to protect her. Please call or email me if you cant afford long distance. Thanks in advance,
Reply
 
 
 Odus says:

 October 23, 2015 at 8:42 am
 
Will a ministerial servant be disfellowshipped if he allowed his kids to play football ?
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 23, 2015 at 11:57 am
 
No, he won’t be DF’s but he may be removed as a MS for not setting a good example according to the JW’s. I was an Elder and my son signed up to play
 baseball and they told me if he did I would be removed as a servant!
Stupid religion.
Reply
 
 
 
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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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172 Responses to Welcome


Newer Comments →
 
 Mark Davis says:

 January 29, 2013 at 2:03 pm
 
New to the site, look forward to reading more of your material.
Reply
 
 
 Randy G. says:

 March 3, 2013 at 6:20 pm
 
Hi Cedars,
Congratulations on your 2012 survey. You clearly have engaged in a labour of love and no doubt some financial expense as well. Just having an opportunity to voice concerns regardless of our current status and involvement with the faith can be cathartic. To what extent will the Governing Body read your report? Unless they directly responded one could never know. Nonetheless having a substantial package delivered by UPS as you’ve arranged no doubt has some impact — even if it was just thrown away.
Consider too what current GB members might hear from the average member. No doubt much of it is praise and we-so-love-the-organization type of comments. Nice, but not really intellectually stimulating. Thus I would not be entirely surprised if some of those in leadership positions pay a fair amount of attention to dissenting voices, especially when expressed with respect and well articulated. I know when I served as an elder and Bill Bowen had setup silentlambs.org when the circuit overseer talked privately to the elders he said several things about Bill, whom he said he knew.
On March 24, 2013 our ex-JW meetup groups (West Phoenix and Chandler) have organized a “Shun Run”. We did this last year too and 9 came out for the walk/run. Prior to this event I wrote to one specific individual at HQs, using the code from his letter to me (SDB:SSY). He doesn’t write back, but I too hope our concerns about shunning don’t fall on deaf ears. But even if they do, I still hope our Shun Run is of help.
Cheers,
 -Randy
Reply
 
 
 Steve says:

 June 23, 2013 at 2:02 pm
 
I was curious, you are always pretty vocal about whats new. Did I miss a post as to why you are no longer afilated with AAWA?
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 23, 2013 at 2:08 pm
 
Hi Steve. I would prefer not go into the exact reasons why I am no longer with AAWA, but you should know that I still support AAWA and hope it is successful in its objectives with or without me. It didn’t seem necessary to write an article about it on this website because I don’t consider it to be that big of a deal for my readers. I would rather continue to focus on what’s going on with Watchtower. I hope you understand. :)
Reply
 
 
 
 Steve says:

 June 24, 2013 at 10:27 am
 
Thanks for the reply. Of course I respect your wishes. But you will forgive me for suggesting that is a little hypocritical. Especially since aawa – while they accuse the watchtower for being a cult because of amoung other things information control – have encountered a number of issues, the facebook fiasco to one side – the racist comments in their (now mysteriously disapeared) newsletter. Their firstly insulting any posters that disagree with them, and then deleting and ip blocking anyone that posts something negative. (this i experienced first hand). As a respected commentator I had hoped you could shed some light, rather than allow another organisation to sweep its mistakes and errors under the carpet.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 24, 2013 at 11:32 am
 
Hi Steve. I’m sorry you think I am a hypocrite simply because I won’t dish the dirt on a fledgling organization which, though imperfect, shares my aims and aspirations. If you really need me to point out the difference between AAWA and an organization that controls the lives of millions under the pretense that it is under God’s guidance, then you are more dependent on my reasoning ability than you perhaps should be. In any case, I respect your opinion and I am glad that you can respect mine. Cedars
Reply
 
 
 
 zahid says:

 July 20, 2013 at 12:21 am
 
I want you guys to join
Reply
 
 
 Arno says:

 July 21, 2013 at 12:06 pm
 
I personally appreciates all the energy you are putting into this website, Cedars – in particular the 2013 survey. I would love to participate in this survey, but, for the time being, elects to wait and see if there will be an amended survey in the months to come, wherein the above suggestions by various participants/commenters have been included.
I’m very glad to have chanced upon this website tonight whilst doing some “research” (googling) the topic “Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses”. A fantastic and laudable task you’ve taken upon yourself…and a great site indeed.
Count me in :)
Reply
 
 
 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 July 21, 2013 at 6:27 pm
 
“forgive me for suggesting that is a little hypocritical”
“but you should know that I still support AAWA” ~ Well, would some feel that way because I decline to actively join an openly opposing organization to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and yet strive to be amiable and cooperative with it? I sometimes get that sense…
I see it as practical and neighborly as well as trying to utilize what tools are available to me…
I have assessed and reassessed my circumstance and I am quite comfortable with my position…
Reply
 
 
 Anonymous says:

 August 8, 2013 at 7:40 am
 
I’m at a point in my life where I shun all organizations. I am thankful for people like Cedars willing to expose the inconsistencies within organized religion. However unfortunately groups of people once they band together often go rogue and deviate highly off course. I have found that a journey to enlightenment is often best done alone.
Reply
 
 
 leo says:

 August 25, 2013 at 8:58 pm
 
after studying the the Bible cover to cover with JWs for 10 years and then leaving i got my degree in Religious Studies.Pulling major doctrines from books like the Revelation is troublesome…many doctrines are Catholic holdovers.my question is , If Jesus prayed all night and chose the 12…and one was a thief….WHERE ARE ALL THE UNACCOUNTED BILLIONS ?
Reply
 
 
 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 9:49 pm
 
leo said:
On August 25, 2013 at 8:58 pm
“after studying the the Bible cover to cover with JWs for 10 years and then leaving i got my degree in Religious Studies.Pulling major doctrines from books like the Revelation is troublesome…many doctrines are Catholic holdovers.my question is , If Jesus prayed all night and chose the 12…and one was a thief….WHERE ARE ALL THE UNACCOUNTED BILLIONS ?”
I’ve asked this for a good long time and even inquired of US Federal agencies but I appear to have always been a voice in the wind. I have always had a profound concern about the removal of assets to offshore locales and conversion or any number of hiding of assets scenarios to avoid having to pay these massive damage claims that were foreseen when the Society paid out the near half Billion back in the mid 90’s and after that in the early 00’s and who knows what else? They apparently can avoid paying tax on the earned income from the Hedge Funds in the US at least but do they report the money at all? What other taxable “for profit” income is generated under tax free 401 (C)(3) status? The decisions were made and casually amended to empower themselves in very loose, general and abstract terms in the annual meetings of 1999-2003:
http://dc159.4shared.com/doc/gf-AoDRf/preview.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TF2VKBBHKQBG5AC5C
Reply
 
 
 LMC says:

 September 20, 2013 at 10:21 am
 
OK I am having difficulty with this point. JW’s say that the UN will turn on “false religion” however with recent events in Egypt (uprisings ousted president ect) it has been reported on news sources that Christians are being killed in Egypt and other countries. Also in history we see that Christians have at some point been killed, persecuted ect over the centuries. My question is how can Jehovah “put it into the hearts of the UN (political, military, wild beast whatever-has this changed over the years?)” to turn on “false religion” when it is already happening and has happened throughout history? Any thoughts?
Reply
 
 
 former sister says:

 October 8, 2013 at 6:46 pm
 
I am curious as to the J.W. Selling all their property in New York and moving to a more secluded area?
Reply
 
 
 Roger M. Woodbury says:

 October 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm
 
My wife is a JW recently returned after a lengthy absence from active participation. I have been attending meetings with her, and for seven months studied the Bible with a JW elder from the local Kingdom Hall. I ceased studying when it became apparent that the “study” was less about the Bible than about selling me on the idea of becoming a JW which was never an option. I continue studying not only the Bible, but the organization itself and have learned quite a bit about the organization that is disquieting to me.
I find the secrecy of the organization and the way it operates to be disturbing. It seems to me that if the faith of the organizational leadership was as strong as it should be, then there should be no fear of dissent within the congregations.
Most discouraging of all is the apparent prevalence of child sexual abuse and pedophilia that exists within the congregations and the fact that the organization seems to be unable or unwilling to do much about it. There is supposedly a listing held in secret in the organization’s headquarters of a pedophiles and sexual abusers that numbers in excess of 24,000. If the statistics hold for this organization that psychologists and sociologists maintain for the general population, this number is not more than 5% of the actual number within the organization itself. In an organization of seven million or so world wide, this would make the percentage of pedophile/child sexual abusers to be considerably higher than the general population. While it is true that the illness is not discussed at all directly in the Bible, the Society’s unwillingness to deal effectively with the problem lays itself open to precisely the kinds of persecutions that it predicts will roll down hill on top of it during the tribulation. I do not believe that “self-inflicted” tribulations are scriptural.
As far as the JW’s selling off property in Brooklin is concerned, I suspect one great motivating factor for relocation and real estate sales is the award and settlement figures for civil litigation involving child sexual abuse which currently is passing $50 million. While some of the jury awards may well be overturned on appeal, the number of settlements out of court are substantial and involve substantial amounts of money. Could the awards and exposures be sufficient to financially destabilize the organization? Who knows, but certainly if the organization loses $50 million or more, its financial condition will be severely impacted and attractive and valuable real estate in Brooklin would seem to have less value to them.
It seems likely that if the Jehovah’s Witnesses were to modernize their operational structure just a bit and allow women to participate in the operation of the organization on the same basis as men, and if in fact there were four women on the governing body, it seems likely that the incidence of child sexual abuse and pedophilia would disappear from the congregation entirely.
Reply
 
 
 Christian Sparlock Freedom says:

 October 18, 2013 at 11:19 am
 
Great article. Your efforts are appreciated .
 Great cartoon also .
Reply
 
 
 Free Thinker/Non-JW says:

 October 19, 2013 at 7:05 pm
 
Hi Cedars,
 As an outsider looking in, I find the watchtower phenomenon and their followers fascinating.
 For many years, I have worked in close proximity to several jw’s, and they have always been polite, and non-proselytizing at the work-place. However, there has always been a “separatist” underlying current among them, in addition to the secretive behavior regarding their lives outside of work. This, among other things, has led my curiosity to try to learn more about them.
 Your website is replete with useful information, and I plan to use it as one of many research tools.
 Thanks for the time and effort you put into educating others, regarding the history and the doctrines, of this very interesting segment of human culture.
Reply
 
 
 JB says:

 October 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm
 
Hello, I discovered this site a short while ago,
 I must say I’m totally impressed by the depth of knowledge of both the moderators and many commentors, among whom, probably many spent long years within the
 organization. I appreciate the well-documented and open minded approach, although I must say that at times, some blog entries and comments make me feel like they’re made just for the sake of “keeping the momentum” critisizing, while I truly believe there are quite a few troublesome
 topics very rightly critisized here already.
I myself have mixed feelings about the organization, and refrain from reaching to conclusions for many reasons. Still, I think, if it’s not for its Governing Body,an organization with its members who honestly search for truth, ready to put their own lives in line for what they believe as truth, deserves respect … I saw all the negative sides mentioned here and elsewhere within the organization, but I have also seen wonderful, honest, open minded, intelligent people. They are the reason for me not to dismiss it so easily …
I intend to hang around in the most constructive manner as possible, I can see that I’m by no means more clever and knowledgeable than anyone here, I guess I’ll question everything, both the organization and any critisism against it, in case I can’t find a solid basis for those … I think the reason many people became a JW (and then left) was finding and living the truth. I think this aim remains as the sole objective, above anything, including our ego’s. At least, I’d like this to be this way for myself.
Reply
 
 
 kb2013 says:

 December 28, 2013 at 6:45 pm
 
Thank you for creating this informative website.
I was brought up as a JW and started taking it seriously for last 10 years. However, there were times where I had witnessed things that just didn’t seem right. (Gossiping, Favouritism, Hypocrisy etc. ) I discussed my feelings with a few people. The feedback that I got was along the lines of, “Just ignore it”, “Pray about it”, “We need to continue putting up with one another”.
The final straw was the distribution of the new Bibles. In the UK, the privileged few (elders, their wives, pioneers, brothers and sisters who have been baptised members for over 30 years) were invited to the annual meeting and given a new bible. The rest of the rank and file members had to wait. (We finally got ours a couple of weeks ago).
At the next meeting, a pioneer brother jokingly said, “The new bibles are only for…” then he stopped in mid-sentence, laughed and then said, “no I can’t say that, I’m only joking!” However, it didn’t seem like a joke. There was a sense of “them and us”. The new bibles were used in the meetings straight away, even though the majority of the members did not have a new bible. It would’ve probably made a bit more sense to release the new bibles at the district conventions, so that everyone received a copy at the same time.
Then I visited this website and read about the failed prophecies (e.g. 1975), the racist history of the WTBTS, mind control techniques etc. My eyes have been opened ever since.
I am not angry but more disappointed about the time I have invested in this organisation. However, this experience has helped me to gain an understanding of how organisations employ mind control techniques and how best not to get involved. I am working on my fade out of this organisation.
Thank you Cedars and others for the hardwork you all have put into creating this website. I hope that more current JWs will visit this website and start thinking for themselves.
Reply
 
 
 Julia says:

 January 8, 2014 at 11:13 pm
 
Hi Cedar
I’m from Poland and I’m a former Jehovah’s witness. We have website about JW in our country too. We discuss there on the belives of JWs.
 Many of us have parents in this religion. Therefore, I understand how you feel.
 I wish you luck, many of the articles on your website and the agreement of the parents.
 I greet.
 Julia
Reply
 
 
 Ian says:

 January 14, 2014 at 7:15 pm
 
On one hand, the property in Dumbo is an unnecessary expense when it comes down to it, and I’m surprised they held onto it for this long. On the other hand, the price tag was a little low as well as the sale happening relatively quickly coinciding with the lawsuits the recent lawsuits does leave question. Just an observation.
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 January 21, 2014 at 10:32 pm
 
Hi Cedar,
 I’m one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I don’t associate with the WTS. They can’t dis-fellowship me since I was never baptized into that organization. I enjoyed reading your experience. Also I like the articles on your site.
 regards
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 Eddie says:

 January 22, 2014 at 2:25 am
 
Hi, Cedar
 Your site is very well put together and I share your understanding. I’m an agnostic, I don’t agree with all written in the Bible. 2000 years went by with no divine intervention on human affairs, suddenly about 130 years ago a lunatic gets a heavenly call to announce a false date 1914?
 For sure the GB is not “spirit directed” and the WT is just another religious cult, one of many that abound in Christendom. I was disfellowshipped once, suffered the shunning process, reinstated then silently faded away.
Reply
 
 
 Brendan Tannam says:

 January 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm
 
I guess it is becoming clear that AAWA is just another egotistical organisation modelled on the Watchtower.
Reply
 
 
 Appreciative says:

 February 9, 2014 at 2:58 pm
 
Hi Cedars.
My husband devoted a good decade of his life–almost every free minute–to researching Watchtower and writing long articles about his findings, to debating with JW apologists, etc. Back then (from the early 90s to mid-2000s), there were only a handful of people doing what you’re doing. He felt compelled to do the work. But now he no longer has to because of the tremendous efforts you and others are making. Your site is fabulous. I left back in the early 80s, when there was practically no information like this available. What a difference now for people who have doubts and who want to leave. The resources available to them are staggering. I think your site is among the very best. Thank you for your continued hard work so that people like my husband can turn their attention to other matters.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 5, 2014 at 10:18 am
 
To Duds
You are right they cannot DF you but they can Call you “bad association” and basically do the same thing. They now can even classify non-witnesses that are associated or affiliated with the WT as “approved publishers” or “disapproved publishers” They always come up with another way to gain more control over everyone. I remember some years back when I was newly baptized an Elder of that time told my wife that we should not be hanging around my “WORLDLY” parents to much bc they had made it clear by their actions that they were “enemies Of the Kingdom” by not becoming KW’s and not attending the meetings? I was very upset at the time bc they were basically telling me not to hang around my NON JW family. If that isn’t total control over your life and cult like I don’t know what is!
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 5, 2014 at 7:31 pm
 
Hi Holy Conolli,
 Thanks for your comments,Its sad the WTS has got so far out of touch with decency. When is your family got to be looked on as bad association? I can understand if the family were very vile, however, that’s not usually the case with most worldly families. I don’t have any family relatives living close by, but when I meet with them,it is still great to associate with them even though they don’t share what I believe.In fact it often leads to some interesting discussions. The WTS has to look at it policies and reconsider their teachings. Many of the teachings are boarding on being Pharisaical, and need adjusting or eliminating all together to show a more loving approach, to those outside their organization, and to their families inside, who have been unjustly separated from their families due to contrary understanding of WTS material.
 may you continue to have peace
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 6, 2014 at 12:09 am
 
Hi Duds
In my experience let’s say that a family may be studying in the congregation and they have some kids that are teenagers etc. and just doing normal teenage stuff like playing sports, dancing, gong to movies, maybe hanging out late sometimes etc In a mixed company of girls and boys. If after a while they do not start going door-door or if they are not “progressing” in the JW cong it wouldn’t be long before they starting pressuring them to go out in service, stop hanging out, no dancing, little if any sports playing etc. If they did not tow the WT line they would become “bad associations” and they could be “marked” in the congregation which basically means they are not to be associated with except on a very limited level and that is ONLY if they are going to meetings and doing the JW thing. I know many who that happened to. The thing is the JW’s do not give their youth anything to do except for going door-door and maybe some kid of Watchtower farm work. They take away everything that normal teenagers do like sports, dancing, music, College, groups Clubs, party’s, and they do not replace it with anything. Young people need an out let and going door-door just doesn’t cut it! I mean at least the Mormons have sports, clubs, chaperoned dances, school activities, preparing them for college, Many kinds of activities to occupy young folks with clean things to do. But the JW’s have nothing to offer.
They re the religion of NO FUN! Then if anyone does have fun they wan to stop it. Several years ago I used to organize Friday night Softball games under the lights at a baseball field in town. So many young kids came out to play and have fun and after we would go have Pizza etc until maybe 11-12 midnight. After several months of this on a regular basis the JW Elders and the CO stepped in to stop it bc they said the young people were to tired to go out in Field service on Saturday morning and it ws taking away from their “spirituality”? So they made a big thing about it and basically squashed it. They even had the nerve to give a talk from the platform on “needs” of the congregation and said we were getting to Competitive and we should play softball without keeping score? What kind of CRAZY mind is that? So they stopped it but NEVER offered an alternative except go OUT IN FOEDL Service!
No wonder so many young people are leaving that religion. JW’s the Religion of No fun!
Do you currently consider yourself a JW dud? Do you go door-door still?
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:01 am
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 I agree with you, it’s disappointing to say the least that WTS views on association and recreational activities are really appalling.Most of the young ones in the congregation are really there because of their parents,and most will only stay in the congregation because they don’t want to be shunned by their family.If that treat didn’t exist I’d imagine many would leave tomorrow. Why not let them enjoy themselves while their young, and when they get to that time in their life they want to change, it will be for all the right reasons, and not because their forced to do so.
Holy, I still believe Jehovah to be the true God and hence for that reason I am one of Jehovah’s witnesses. I don’t believe, however, the WTS and the GB are Jehovah’s only God’s representatives. Today, they have an elevated view of themselves and are failing their members, and the people of the world. With their unhealthy view of themselves, they have for example continued to tell lies, regarding the date of 607B.C.E. for the destruction of Jerusalem.They have known at least since 1978 that 587 B.C.E. is the correct date for Jerusalem’s destruction.Their pride is stopping them from being humble and admitting their error. In the mean time they continue to mislead,misquote scholars,lie,and deceive to backup their flawed theology. Shortly, they will have to face up to that fact, they will probably reveal it as new light and some will be fooled into believing it.
 I still believe many of the other truths that they teach. However they are not the owner of those truths, Jesus and his Father are,and beside other religions also teach them.
 My faith in Jesus and Jehovah has strengthen, since I began to study for my self. When something is difficult, I refer to how others (even the wts) understand but only then to compare and check.
 May you have peace
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:14 am
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 I wrote an earlier post explaining where I stood with my beliefs but I think it may have gone astray in cyber-land. Hope you get it. It may be going thru quarantine.
 Cheers Duds
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 6, 2014 at 6:37 am
 
Dud
I missed your previous comment but I found it afte some looking. Sorry I missed it earlier. Thanks for sharing.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:23 pm
 
I admire you for hanging in there despite the fact that you recognize many of the things you mention. I also found out about 587 BCE as being the correct year on my own. Since that is correct it throws their number 1 teaching of 1914 and all the things associated with it out the door! So that means Jesus was not crowned King in that year. It means he did not “return” that year, it means the cleansing of the spiritual temple did not occur in 1918-1919 etc,it means Satan was not thrown down to the earth, it means the last days did not start in that year etc. My wife is still an active JW and I am not sure what she thinks with all these radical changes and attitude of GoV Body etc I think she is just numb to it and goes along with whatever they say. I also Believe in Jehovah and in Jesus Christ but not anymore through an organization or a Church. Especially the WT as the one and ONLY rep on earth! The facts just don’t add up. They have never, ever been correct on one thing that they predicted? Their record on prophecy is dismal at best. I am impressed that you can still attend meetings in view of what you express? If you can and it makes you feel right more power to you and I respect that and I am sure you have your reasons for doing it. For me I just could not advocate it any longer. Sure I had friends in the Cong that I miss but I have made other friends as well. I think anyone that was a serious JW like you and myself for a number of years still carry’s the effects of being a JW for long time especially if you have family still in it.
I have weighed the evidence and it just doesn’t add up what they teach anymore. I talk with a JW friend in Europe and he is afraid to express himself to much but the whole 1914 thing he doesn’t believe anymore but is afraid of being df’d by telling others so he just kind of is fading away. I could not in my heart preach anymore bc I knew it was a continual changing religious philosophy that is at BEST inconsistent and contradicts teachings of just a few years ago. I think the Gov body is worried and they really not sure of what to do anymore? As mentioned I still believe in Jehovah and Christ but our salvation is not dependent on being a JW or hours in FS or association with the WT.
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 4:37 pm
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 I see my lost post turned up this morning, moderator must have approved.
 No, I don’t go to their meeting I haven’t gone for years, my wife and son have been d/f and I guess they would treat me the same even though I’ve never been d/f. They can d/f you from an organization but not from God, and because I was baptized before they bought in, the being baptized into an org. question, I believe they can’t d/f me. I made a dedication to serve Jehovah and Jesus not an org.
 I cannot see Jehovah or Jesus backing any of the dates presented by society they have been wrong on every one of them including 1914. When I said I still believe many of the truths, I meant the basic for example, the soul,hell not being a fiery torment, Jehovah and Jesus being separate persons but the rest, apart from most of the morals, I don’t agree with.
 You have got it right, our salvation is not depended on hour in f/s or being a member of the WTS. but in recognizing Jesus as our Savior. I couldn’t go preaching d-d knowing that the society is completely wrong about 607 and 1914, and many other things as well, it would be hypocritical.
 They claim to adhere to strick Bible chronology, but they don’t, and even change the Bible to suit their own theology.
 For example Dan 2:1 say ‘in the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar…dreamed dreams”
Now the Bible chronology says “in the second year of the kingship” but because this dosn’t fit with their theological assumption, that Daniel could not have been in Babylon in King Nebs. second year, change this to mean the second year after Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E. A complete change of Bible Chronology. Check WT2007 w07 9/1 p.17-20 par.10 also si pp 138-142. Jehovah and Jesus got it wrong according to WTS and GB.(so much for their accurate Bible chronology when quoting 607 dating).
 Daniel was in Babylon in the second year of K/Nebs. kingship, the Bible says so, why should we disbelieve it. If the society were to get their understanding right about the destruction of Jerusalem and the chronology surrounding that time, there be no valid reason for changing it. The main reason for not wanting to do that, is that it destroys their 1914 doctrine. Because Jehovah gives Jerusalem and Judah into the hands of the Babylonian Empire before the royal line of David is over thrown. Dan2:36-39 and Jer.27:4-7. therefore, the so called 70 years must apply when Babylon became a world Empire or when Jehovah chose K/Neb to be his servant, and not after Jerusalem’s destruction.
 How does your wife feel about your new understandings?
 Its hard to break old habits, it took me a while to change even though I could see obvious things that were wrong, however, I was trained to turn a blind eye and trust in the org. I just faded away until my interest was revitalize by reading the book “The Gentile Times Reconsidered” by Carl Olof Jonsson now an ex witness, great book though he has a PDF of it on his site. It proves beyond the shadow of doubt that 587 B.C.E. is when Jerusalem destroyed.
 May peace go with you
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 5:58 pm
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 I think another one of my post has gone the long way round.
 Have to check tomorrow if it turns up.
 Cheers in the meantime
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 JB says:

 March 7, 2014 at 1:57 am
 
Hi Duds,
What you wrote here is pretty much my stand too. I was disfellowshipped long ago and when I wanted to find my “spiritual way” back lately, I reconsidered the religion I was born in, but soon I saw all these discrepencies and problems with it, and it brought some bitter memories back.
I’m much better outside and like you mentioned, although I still have beliefs and some key points are the same, studying on my own with an open mind seems much more beneficial and there is definitely a very health freedom about it.
Reply
 
 
 JB says:

 March 7, 2014 at 1:58 am
 
sorry I meant “healthy freedom about it”.
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:01 am
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 It has been a real pleasure sharing these few thoughts with you.Its been a real comfort for me knowing that others, like yourself, feel the same way as I do.
 Were you bought up as a witness or was it another org. that you went back to find your spiritual way?
 I’m also glad your doing your own reading its much more meaningful, your not tided down to some watchtower influence.
 Yeah and I like that healthy freedom too!
 Cheers and peace
 Dude
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:32 am
 
Duds and Holy Conolli,
Well done, folks! I would always advise anyone who still believes to read the Bible only. If you need some further information, try seeking sources that are not tied to any faith in particular.
There has been a scramble to claim Jesus of Nazareth for 2000 odd years. Everyone has an opinion, and some of those people are convinced that only they have the truth.
I still retain a great deal of respect for Jesus’ core message. I try to apply some Christian principles in my life.
His message of mercy and compassion is timeless, and we all can benefit from contemplating his teachings.
Have you chaps looked at JW Struggle? There is a splendid man called Eric on that site that shares your sincere belief in God and his Son. He has written some very fine articles that I have enjoyed reading. He is a good man. I recommend checking out his site, that he shares with some other fine folks. I think they will help to comfort you.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:42 am
 
Hi Duds
Thanks for sharing. I was not raised a JW. I was like 10 years old when I started studying. There was a lot of talk and scare tactics about 1975 at the time and how we need to get baptized and quit school and college and just preach etc. So I got baptized and next year got married and had 3 kids. Lot’s of struggles over the years , some good and some bad but tried my very best to be a great example of a Christian and do everything I could to support the JW’s etc. Always though in the back of my mind there were things that just never seemed right on teachings and policy they promoted and pushed. Also always seemed like the WT org was not very forgiving or very loving towards the Rank and file although in word they would say they were? Always ready to dish out punishment and policy but never ready to forgive. They told the publishers to forgive one another and to be open minded but they were not that way themselves. The love that they preached wasn’t in reality there? I remember when I was like 22 years old I was preaching in a very expensive educated neighborhood near a prominent University and I expressed my sincere doubts about how Jesus could have returned in 1914 “invisibly” despite scriptures that say the opposite and how the tribes of the earth were not Beating themselves in grief at that event as the Bible says they would do? I was sincere and just wanted answers? I wasn’t challenging anyone at that time.
 They always saw any questions as a challenge to their authority? It should not be like that.
So some of the JW’s were very disturbed at my thoughts and reasoning and told me to ask the CO at that time. They refused to discuss it. It was like they buried their head in the sand. Those thoughts lingered with me for years on that and many other teachings. Like Most good JW’s I buried it and went about being a good publisher and an elder for nearly 13 years. Supported the WT in every way possible. I remember in the 1990’s I just cold not do it anymore. The information and instructions coming from the Gov body just kept changing from one year to the next. Scriptural understanding was flip flopping all over the place, the 1914 changes in teaching was what I was saying 33 years earlier. The excuses they were making for being wrong all those years were intolerable to me to sit and accept anymore. Their was no humility on their part only telling everyone to listen, Obey and don’t question us bc we are God’s representatives. Plus I had seen SO MUCH OVER the years that I just had to remove myself from a unhealthy mental and spiritual situation the best I could without causing to much controversy in my family. My kids are grown now and sometimes I wonder what life would have been if I had raised them A “normal” life? You never know where life takes you so I am not full of regrets in that sense and my kids turned out pretty good and only 1 considers themselves a JW now but they reached those conclusions on their own. The Wife is still active and will not discuss another point of view but that is fine. She knows where I stand and she knows what I am saying is truthful but her entire life and social life is tied to the WT Org. A man has to live with himself before he can live with others.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:48 am
 
Duds and excelsior
Sorry guys…I made a Mistake about my age! I typed in the wrong number and did not double ck! I typed in that was 10 years Old when I started studying. I typed in 10 years old and then said I got married the next year!! Lol I meant to type in I was 19 when I started studying and 20 when I got married. Lol
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 5:29 am
 
Hi JB
 You have the same initials as my sons. Yes both sons. Thanks for your comments.I thought I was talking to Holy Conolli when I was reading your comments and I may have replied to you as such. Sorry to you both. But my comments were sincere I appreciate you both.
 Cheers and peace
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 5:42 am
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 I really didn’t think you were 10 years old and than married at 11, I took that as the time your family started to study, and after a time of being pressured you got baptized than got married. Amazing, what one can read into something, that’s not there. Being 10 I automatically thought you were saying your family started studying.
 Thanks again for sharing
 Duds
Reply
 
 

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172 Responses to Welcome

← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
 
 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 6:12 am
 
Hi Excelsior
 Thanks for you kind thoughts, I think the more we read the Bible on our own, the more we seem drawn to each other. Pondering Jesus ways and thoughts seems to makes us more conscious of our own weakness and faults, that we want to help others know of his redeeming qualities.
Yeah, I have checked out the JW Struggle site and your right, there are many good articles, been written in a non condemning way which helps remove that dissent ex-witness may feel for being mistreated by the WTS.
 May you continue to have peace
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 JB says:

 March 7, 2014 at 10:09 am
 
Thank you so much Duds, it’s great to see there are like minded folks.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 7, 2014 at 3:47 pm
 
I have heard about his book and he is not the only scholar that brings it out. I think the WT must know that 607 BCE is not accurate but they keep trying to keep the Cong together. If and when they change that they will have a lot of explain to do. But if you are wrong you are wrong so why not admit it and just deal with it.
I think it would throw so may JW’s into mental distress they are afraid to do it. Also, if they are so wrong on this it begs the question that how many more of their teachings are they wrong with? Since this is their main teaching of all their prophetic sayings and so much is tied to this teaching it would change their entire approach to everything they have ever stood for.It could even be their downfall and cause them to dissolve as a religion? I am not saying it would but it very well could happen.
Reply
 
 
 cheryl massey says:

 March 10, 2014 at 11:04 am
 
ARE YOU SINGLE? LOL
Reply
 
 cheryl massey says:

 March 10, 2014 at 11:32 am
 
THAT WAS TO CEDARS.LOL THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU DO!!! YOUR VERY COURAGIOUS! I BELIEVE MY VIEWS ARE CHANGING FOR GOOD THIS TIME AND IT SCARES THE YOU KNOW WHAT OUT OF ME AND I CATCH MYSELF LIVING IN FEAR FOR A MOMENT THEN I REMEMBER THAT THEY CAN ONLY KILL MY SPIRIT IF I ALLOW THEM TOO! BRAVO!
Reply
 
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 11, 2014 at 6:16 am
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 Yeah,I’m looking forward to the day they admit, they were wrong about 607B.C.E. That will mean all the dates’ they ever spoke about, have proved false. Its possible, that a big split might come among them. If they admit it, it won’t be because it was the light getting brighter. Many,brothers and others have for years, exposed this error. Many, unjustly d/f for it.
 Will they be humble enough to honestly, confess this and apologize to all? I’m not sure they could, when you look at all the changes that will have to take place. Reinstating all wrongly d/f.brothers and sisters. Change every book explaining 607/1914/1919. introduce new doctrines to replace the 1919 cleansing and inspection,and many many more as well. That’s a lot of explaining to do ,and who is going to believe them?
 That is going to take a lot of faith!
 Keep going my brother don’t let this day, stop you from looking to the day, Jesus cleans up all this mess.
 peace and love Duds
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 11, 2014 at 12:12 pm
 
Thnks Duds. I doubt very much that if they do admit it is an erroneous date that they will go back and change everything or admit BIG TIME failure. It is not something they do. However, things can change as we all know and it is possible. If they do change it and admit they were wrong then what would that do to the organization as a whole? What would the publishers do? Who would stay and who would leave and it would create an entirely different religious doctrine? It might be like even some today who still hold to Russell’s teachings? I see them on TV from time -time or read something about them? They still believe Russell was the F&D slave even after all these years? also, it could be like when Rutherford took over. It caused a Big Split 50/50 or more left the WT of those days?
does it really matter anymore since they are wrong?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 3:05 am
 
If they ever do admit these wrong teachings then will they still be JW’s or will they merge with another theological idea or religion? In reality they are not much different from the former “World Wide Church of God” run by the late Herbert Armstrong. When he died there was a Big Split as some wanted to stay w his teachings and others abandoned his teachings and went with traditional Christianity. They split into so MANY different sects and groups that they are not even recognizable anymore. Some kept the same name of the church as before but the teachings are completely different. They even came out and apologized for “persecuting” other Christian denominations for decade. Herbert Armstrong was very similar to the WT Gov Body in stating that all other Churches and teachings were false and they would be destroyed at the 2nd coming/Armageddon which was always imminent. He and the WT taught similar teachings and doctrines although he was a Sabbatarian and kept the Mosaic dietary law. The point is he was very controlling. They shunned and DF’d people.If anyone left the Church the family could not speak with them. He had total control over the Church.It was a cults.So if the JW’s come out with major doctrine l changes it may very well dissolve what we currently have known as Jehovah’s Witnesses over the last 60+ years.
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 March 12, 2014 at 4:24 am
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 Glad to hear from you again, I studied with the Worldwide Church of God before I became a witness. Very familiar doctrines, though their belief that God was recreating Himself in saving mankind was kind of weird. I could never accept that. It wasn’t long after that I began studying with the witnesses to convert them, lols, ended up being one, but now divorced from the WTS. That was around the time when Garner Ted Armstrong got sprung cheating on his wife. Now you hardly hear of them, Garner Ted has a TV program and someone is carrying on with Herberts teachings. I think there are some other brake away groups as well.
 There is also many break-a ways from the wts around the globe, all with some message of truth. But when the wts finally comes clean, it will most likely be too late to save face. I think there is going to be one big mess up.There will be few, if none at all, who will put trust in them again.May they all seek a good relational-ship with their Savior Jesus Christ and exercise faith in Him as the Way the Truth, and the Life.
 Peace to you my friend,
 Duds
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 10:04 am
 
That is interesting that you studied with the WWC of God? I have only know a few of those folks over the years.
 In your opinion were they more of a cult and more Controlling than the WT is?
As a child growing up my Mother who was not a JW nor was I raised one always said to me, ” If you are wrong”..you are wrong, just admit it and correct it and move on. That thought always stuck with me in my JW years as a young man and as a older adult. It always bothered me that the WT WOULD NEVER admit their errors or wrong policies. Although they were HELL BENT on the publishers to repent or immediately get DF’d they would never do it for themselves. As time went on it became more clear that they were more concerned about “SAVING FACE” than correcting or admitting their error. also they were so quick to condemn Christendom or any religion that differed from them and even calling others false prophets who made erroneous predictions on the end of the World etc. but in their case it was always” Oh Some were Over anxious” or at times bc we desired the fulfillment of God’s promises some may have Overreacted? It was never them or never WE JUST ARE WRONG it was always the blame game to others.Even the LATE HAROLD CAMPING who made a BIG STIR for his May 23rd 2011 “JUDGEMENT DAY” prophecy all over the world thru Billboards, radio programs, preachers on the street at least came out after nothing happened and apologized? He was very DOGMATIC that he was right and would not be wrong and used some weird numerology that he thought was some bible code to come up with dates etc for the 2nd coming of Christ..yet he admitted his error on prophecy and apologized. The WT has never ever done that? Those who live in Glass houses should not throw Rocks?
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 Duds says:

 March 12, 2014 at 8:11 pm
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 Herbert W. Armstrong was a very authoritative, powerful speaker. He was very persuasive he had great ability to use the Bible to fit his theology. I was very easily influenced in those days, every thing he spoke about seem to be backed up by the Bible, that impressed me, and I fell for his teachings. Many of the doctrines were familiar to the WTS which made it pretty easy for me to become a witness. The turning point in rejecting the WWCoG was Ps110.1-2. Their teaching that God was recreating Himself didn’t go well with this scripture. It was like Jehovah saying to Jehovah sit at My own right hand, which to me was absurd. How could Jehovah say such a thing? It made more sense that he was talking to Jesus who later became David’s Lord and whom Jehovah exalted and made Him Lord and King after His resurrection 33CE. From that time on I dedicated my life to serve Jehovah and His appointed King Jesus Christ. I still am dedicated to them. I was never baptized into an organization. The WTS may like to dis-fellowship me, but they haven’t, and it wont matter if they do in my absence. I will always be known as one of Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses they can’t take that away from me. They have no inherent claim to the name, its there for all Christians. Their non scriptural doctrine to shun others is null and void to all, who still believe Jesus is God’s son, and is now the ruling as King.
 Have Peace
 Duds
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 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 9:25 pm
 
Duds
You make some interesting points I must say. I agree with the fact that we are not baptized into an Organization.
 That is not what Christianity is about at all. We all must have FREDDOM IN CHRIST not an Organization.Sometimes when I really think about t and all the disruption that these religions have caused among honest hearted ones I conclude that belonging to almost any religion and claiming that Doctrine is just nonsense.
The bible never talked about that at all. Remember Paul was disputing that very thing when he said we are not from Paul or Cephas but we are one in Christ? So the same thing here…we can not be baptized into an organization or be a Catholic or a Baptist or the WWCOG or JW’s? We are Christians if we believe. The Bible message is simple. Man has made it difficult.God created us and all the Universe. Jehovah is over everything. Man sinned and lost his way, Man needs a Savior, the Savior is the Lord Jesus Christ.Jesus is God’s gift to man. It is a free gift that we need to accept. If we do we will receive Eternal Life. Jesus will rule over mankind in his Kingdom.
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 Duds says:

 March 12, 2014 at 10:55 pm
 
Hi holy Conolli
 I’m with you,that’s exactly how I feel too.Freedom in Christ!
 Love that scripture you quoted about Paul saying,” I belong to Cephas another to Paul” yes, we are all one in Christ, we all belong to Him. There is no organizational ownership. That’s not saying we can’t be organized, but it something we all do together, willingly and without compulsion, under the loving leadership of Christ.
 have peace
 Duds
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 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 11:43 pm
 
Duds
Also, when we are organized to do something Spiritual or to preach or whatever we still need to have freedom to make our own decisions based on a God Given mind and conscience.Christianity was not a dictator ship ruled by a few harsh men watching every move. BTW, I am going to San Diego tomorrow for some business and I have decided I am going to go by Beth Sarim where Rutherford built the house that he grant deeded over to King David and the other Prophets that he said would be resurrected before Armageddon? The WT does not like to talk about that and if they do they try to claim he was there for “health” reasons? Oh yes, with his Luxury mansion and luxury Cars back in 1929 the year of the great Depression? I am going to take some photos of it. At one time it was a 100 acre estate. Now homes are built around it. That was a pretty wacky Idea and Doctrine he taught among many others.
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 Duds says:

 March 14, 2014 at 10:12 pm
 
Hi Holy Conolli
 Yes, the Judge lived a life of luxury, while he had the poor preach his books and teachings from door to door. All under the guise Armageddon was about to happen. The society did a good job of covering it up.
 According to them, and their latest teachings on the FDS, He is the one, Jehovah and Jesus must have chosen as his servant in 1919. He must have represented the small band of loyal Bible Students.
 quote
“(They were pleased with a small band of loyal Bible Students who showed that their heart was with Jehovah and his Word)” wt13 pp12
They don’t say that outright. However there was no GB than, so who else, was there to fill the role of FDS? Only the judge. He came to power in 1916 after the death of Russell and continued for many years there after. He had to be that composite FDS all by himself until the GB was formed many years later. Very confusing! I guess they can live with that but I can’t.
How did the trip go? What was house like?
 Cheers Duds
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 elderwannabe says:

 March 24, 2014 at 3:28 pm
 
You are worse then what you say jws are. You say your site is religiously neutral? My guess is that you have a personal peeve against the witness and you want to dupe the easily persuaded too. There is nothing good about the witness? Were you at one time a jw? What do you have to offer?
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 Duds says:

 March 24, 2014 at 6:25 pm
 
Hi Elderwannabe
I don’t know if your addressing it to me personally or to all on this site, or just to Cedars.
 I assume from your handle you are a JW or XJW. I am still one of Jehovahs’ Christians Witnesses, but I don’t agree with the WTS.
My peeve is, that they promote themselves as an organisation of truth, but their prophesies, and many other teachings, show them to be otherwise. 607 B.C.E, 1914/1919 for example, and there teaching on the FDS and this generation. A quick look over the info on jwfacts will reveal that.
Many on this site have been hurt by the the WTS stance on shunning, and d/f for simply just holding a different view on some scriptures.
While I think its too late for WTS reform, I hope many others will see the errors of the WTS and escape its grip. This site as I see it, holds out as a haven where like minded gather to encourage and share their experiences.
By reading Cedars blogs and other notable links on this site I think you will see there is a lot to offer.
Have peace Duds
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 Duds says:

 March 24, 2014 at 6:55 pm
 
Hi elderwannabe
I posted an earlier note but its disappeared.I don’t know if your addressing me or all on the site.
If its me then thanks for the the thought that, I maybe worse then the jws., I don’t intend to be.
Would you prefer that ‘the easily persuaded’ to remain duped or learn the truth?
I’d like them see the errors of WTS so they can escape its grips. Yes, I’m one of Jehovahs’ Witnesses who has been hurt by the lies and falsehoods that the WTS teach.
 And Id like to help others learn those truths which expose the WTS so they can be free of manipulation.
May you have peace
 Duds
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 Anne says:

 July 2, 2014 at 5:31 am
 
Thank you. One year ago I came to live with my lovely partner. We have 8 grandchildren between us and life is good. His ex wife and 2 daughters are staunch Jehovahs witnesses. A son in law is an elder. After 6 months of tolerating their appalling and shocking behavior I realised that my partner was terrified that he would never see his grandchildren again as I had confronted them about their bizarre beliefs. I feel so sorry for him. He adores his family. Now they speak to him but I am shunned even though I teach one of their children at the local school! I am so grateful for aawa. I read the site news and comments every day and that gives me strength. You are wonderful people. Thanks for being there.
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 Art Fern says:

 July 9, 2014 at 10:57 pm
 
Duds, you can see the similarities clearly with the Worldwide Church of God, SDA, and the Witnesses. Shunning was big in the WWCOG, you were told to stay away from medicine and they had lots of directions on what you could or not do in the bedroom. Of course such rules didn’t interfere with Herbert’s incestuous relationship with his daughter or Garner Ted’s serial adultery with wives of pastors under him, seducing coeds at Ambassador College and the nickel and dime ordinary extramarital affairs. I am not making gossipy or speculative accusations, the dirty laundry has been admitted to.
 All three groups could well be called Adventist off-shoots, with extremely interesting characters leading the groups. Studying from the outside is fascinating but I have great sympathy for those who had to reconcile their faith with the actions and words of their leaders.
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 Duds says:

 July 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm
 
Hi Art Fern
 Yes, I never became a member of the WWCOG but I certainly, study many of their doctrines before becoming a witness.That was before Garner Ted was caught out. Never knew about Hebert’s ill adventures seems like it ran in the family (lols) My dealing with the SDA is when I meet them in F/S and from a young man we had working for us. I have a friend who was bought up a SDA and became a witness we now do things differently. We don’t go a long with all the falseness coming from the wts. I’m amazed how they have in the last few years have misquoted and mislead and told outright lies to defend their false doctrines. Especially how they interrupt the FDS and GB and that they were chosen as that in 1918/1919.
 Their doctrine of 607BCE for destruction of Jerusalem is perhaps one of the biggest lies of modern day religious history, and they have known that to be a lie since the mid 70s. Now they are caught up in a whirlpool of self deception without a way out.
 The next couple of years will be telling, they are going to have to face up to it eventually, I don’t know how they will save face!
May you have peace!
And Cheers!
Reply
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 July 10, 2014 at 7:22 pm
 
Duds
Good to hear from you again. I used to think that the 1914 doctrine and the FDS and GB and 607bce would be the undoing of the WT. Now as I have talked with many JW’s I am not sure it will effect them in that way. It seems the ones I talk to just don’t seem to care much like it doesn’t really matter? Well, it mattered to me all my JW years. I just couldn’t quite go along with it 100% bc it seemed so unscriptural and not conclusive enough. Especially that Jesus came in 1914 but we cannot see him and that was the 2nd coming of Christ? I think the modern day JW is being programmed to slowly accept anything they tell them and not to question things at all. Just SHUT UP and Believe what we say!! Or I thin a large number of then do not want to face the facts that they may have wasted their lives serving men.They may also become more and more mainstream as time goes on like the WWC did or the SDA’s did. I think there will be a BIG shakeup soon though or perhaps a GOVERNIBG BODY member will leave due to flip flopping and become a modern day Ray Franz?
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 Duds says:

 July 11, 2014 at 1:28 am
 
Hi Holy Connoli
Yeah, I’ve been over at Topix discussing things with them, I’ve pop in a few times to keep up with Cedars posts.
I tend to agree with you about the witnesses, they are being well groomed about accepting what the GB says, anything they say is going to be accepted regardless of how inaccurate it is.
Perhaps, some will see through the mirage and make a break, but the fear of losing friends and family by dis-fellowshiping is a strong force.
Recent w/ts have been stressing that witnesses should be avoiding all kinds of apostate material, hating opposing websites, not sharing e-mails etc with anyone speaking contrary to the GB.
It’s sad that the wts has this crazy notion that anyone seeing something different to them is wrong, the general public they call on are not up to date with jargon of the wts and sites like Cedars and wt facts are great accesses for them to see the other side.
Cheers
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 July 12, 2014 at 6:37 am
 
Hi Holy Connoli
Thanks for your thoughts, I posted a response the other night, but noticed to night it has not been posted. Don’t know what happen there. Don’t have time tonight to redo but will catch up soon.
 Cheers Duds
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 July 12, 2014 at 10:02 am
 
Ok Duds. Look forward to hearing from you.Hope things are going well.
Reply
 
 
 Duds says:

 July 15, 2014 at 1:08 pm
 
Hi Holy
Sorry for the delay. been over on Topix, discussing Dan Ch 4 and the Gentile times. Wts has made a mess of that. There is no parallel that resembles what the wt says about Nebuchadnezzar dream. Just a lot of wishful thinking!
What about this, I was prompted to check out Rutherford “Millions now living will never die” went to their site and this is what I got;
Grateful for My Precious Memories! (‎8 occurrences)
 The Bible lecture “Millions Now Living Will Never Die” proved to be a timely witness in our extensive territory.
 w01 8/1 pp. 23-27 – The Watchtower—2001
“The Spirit and the Bride Keep On Saying: ‘Come!’” (‎5 occurrences)
 In that year, the public talk entitled “Millions Now Living May Never Die” offered hope that many will gain life in a paradise earth after the battle of Armageddon.
 w10 2/15 pp. 14-18 – The Watchtower—2010
Can you see how they have blatantly lied? Deceptively changed “will” to “may”. Big difference between “will win” the lottery and “may win” the lottery. It beats me why they can’t be honest instead of misleading the people.
May you have peace!
 Duds
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 Holy Connoli says:

 July 19, 2014 at 2:25 am
 
HI Duds
THE WT cannot be honest about the Gentile times bc it really doesn’t exist? Like you said it is wishful thinking on their part. I don’t think they really belive it anymore themselves but sine it s their main doctrine and everything revolves around it if they admit it or discard it no telling what will happen so they are “protective”of it but more in a quiet way these days.I guess there saying , that this “generation” will by NO MEANS pass away until all these things occur really means it will nt pass away unless the WT says it will!!
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 chatpal says:

 July 29, 2014 at 8:16 am
 
i think the next time i get accused of being apostate Ill aks them why its ok for the GB to change its mind but not me. are they not apostates too? after all now they dont agree with themselves from a few years ago. they should all be disfellowshipped huh?
 in this case weve all been vindicated.
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 Private says:

 August 5, 2014 at 8:20 pm
 
I am in my thirties now and no longer and JW. Once I became an adult I decided to do my own thing. Anyways, I just wanted to say that growing up with parents who tell you that people who celebrate Christmas are worshipping Satan, really screws with a little girls mind. :/ It made me think all my friends and extended family members were bad. But at the same time, when my birthday would come and I was this little girl wishing for a birthday party like all my friends and never got one present my whole life…I felt insecure. Sad. I spent my childhood crying every Christmas morning. It’s tough on children.
Feel free to email me if you want to interview me but, as I still respect all religions, I would appreciate being anonymus. I have alot of things built up in my mind from how I was raised in a strict JW household. I hated it.
Reply
 
 
 Amy Martinez says:

 August 16, 2014 at 4:19 pm
 
I’m 16 years old and have tons of doubt about being a Jehovah’s Witness. It’s my senior year of high school and a typical teen has tough decisions to make regarding colleges. But not me! I’m supposed to be a pioneer and work a part time job in a restaurant. That is not what I want to do! I am capable of so much more and I just feel as if I am being held back. I want to be a journalist. But that won’t happen as long as I am a Jehovah’s Witness. I have no courage. What can I do?
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 August 16, 2014 at 4:38 pm
 
Hi Amy. I sure don’t envy you with being where you are now. The biggest regret I have is getting involved in the “Truth” when I got out of school and even just bringing up the idea of college to the ones studying with me, made me feel like I was a criminal for even bringing it up. My suggestion is to get a hold of “Captives of a Concept” and reading it carefully and then using the suggestions in that book, ask for a Bible study in the Proclaimer’s book. That book (Captives of a Concept) points out many things in the Proclaimers book that would prove to your parents that God could never have chosen the Watchtower Organization in 1919. You can’t just convince anybody who is a died in the wool Witnesses any other way. No matter what you tell them, they won’t believe it but if you can point it out to them, little by little from that book and the Proclaimer’s book, they, hopefully will come to realize that they (your parents) are in the wrong religion. I sure wished it could be easier for you but doing it that way will take some time. You should tell your parents that since this is your entire life you are talking about, that you want to know the history of the Organization.
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 Amy says:

 August 17, 2014 at 12:47 pm
 
Thank u
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 August 17, 2014 at 12:56 pm
 
I hope it works and you are welcome.
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 Dazed&Confused says:

 September 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm
 
I am not surprised by the change but it is blatant. I noticed long ago most of the articles are riddled with words such as….possibly, apparently, it seems, could be…..
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 Dazed&Confused says:

 September 9, 2014 at 4:28 pm
 
Oops…. That last comment was for Duds
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 Holy Connoli says:

 September 19, 2014 at 4:11 am
 
The WT just came out with an article in recent WT pretending to still believe the 607 BCE story? They had a short article with a supposed Bible Study trying to understand the 607-1914 end of Gentile rule nonsense. I know the GB cannot really believe that anymore?
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 September 25, 2014 at 3:49 am
 
Amy,
I would like to suggest a compromise, if that is possible in your circumstances.
Why not attend college part time? Perhaps choosing a course that will provide you with a “Witness Friendly” career? I know elders who are dentists and other professions that they learned whilst Witnesses.
If you are in the US, all of your credits will add up, and you can always take more classes as you progress in your academic career.
I would not suggest linking going to college with deprogramming your folks. Keep them separate issues for now.
It is a fact that the wtbts pay for men to take degrees in law, so why can’t you go to college part time?
I attended college with just the equivalent of a high school diploma, by completing an access to higher education course. It is never too late to study!
I hope this advice proves useful to you and good luck with your studies.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Sean says:

 October 8, 2014 at 6:15 pm
 
I was introduced to Jehovah at a very young age and was off and on with attending meetings and having a bible study until I was 16 then alas the “world” got the better me. For the next 24 years I did the best to become a part of this world. Even found a a church I began to attend regularly for a few years until recently. I could never shake the feeling that what the church’s were teaching just wasnt true. I truly believe Jehovah’s Witnesses have a correct interpretation of scripture especially concerning matters of Jehovah and his son Jesus. I was out in the “world” long enough to get a good understanding that there is nothing good out there for me. I see alot of distrust among the leadership from the comments I am reading. I used to feel the same way and to be perfectly honest I still have doubts. The one thing I do believe and you can call me crazy but I know Satan is real and he is truly the “author of confusion”. The Watchertower Society is a human organization and they are not infallible people. The literature I read and discern using my bible and referencing other bibles has helped me in ways I am not sure you can even imagine or maybe just forgotten or become disallusioned. I look at where I was mentally a year ago and where I am now and I have seen how Jehovah is working in my life. We all have doubts. Doubts kept me away for nearly 25 years. When I look at this world everything seems so clear to me. Whether the new system comes next year or 100yrs from now makes me no difference. Im not worrying about whether the governing body got an end times prophecy accurate. Im trusting completely in my God Jehovah anf the one he sent Jesus Christ. Men dont have it all figured out. Moses had doubts. Abraham had doubts, Elijah, Jeremiah, Micah all of them. People said they were crazy. People call me crazy for being one of JWs. That used to bother me when I was 16 but now at 40 it doesnt. The Bible is my guide and I trust Jehovah to put the people in my life who will keep me spiritually uplifted and able to face anything the Enemy throws my way. People ask me what if your wrong. If I am wrong then the Bible says to dust I will return. I will simply be dead. Jehovah God will not forsake me. I wrote this not to put down anyone or make anyone feel bad but just know doubt will come questions will arise dont let things cause you to stumble. I am glad I made it back. Sorry to ramble on and on but I just felt compelled to speak. Have a good evening.
Reply
 
 
 Oscar Sarabia says:

 October 28, 2014 at 10:33 am
 
Hello..
I have a question I believe you guys can help me answer..
I would first like to say you guys are an inspiration to all of humanity. To break away from Spiritual Slavery is a sign that humanity can make its Heaven on Earth.
I am not a JW, Nor have I had many in contact other than your usual Morning Door Knockers!
 I have recently decided to do some Soul Searching again. I was brought up with many Christian Beliefs in many different religions, but I found myself in a very vulnerable position last few weeks. I have been speaking with a JW.. I found her very nice, and I thought she was making some pretty interesting points about scripture. So I went off again, reading the Bible and trying to find meaning to all this scripture.. Without submitting to religious belief.
I now have some friendly debates with my JW friend. Whenever I get to see her, No invite to house for a non needed bible interpretation. But I am at a point where I am now simply interested on what she has to say about scripture, so im debating the invitation. She is just sooooo niceee!!!! but Ok enough life story, im looking for a opposite point of view. As I believe its wise to do..
1)What do you like least about JW?
2)What do you think is the best thing about JW? if your not yet a member or are also considering learning more.. then what do you find Most Attractive or Inspiring about it??
3) Other comments..
 I just love other comments…
I thank you.. may GOD.. whoever he is to you. Bless you and guide you on your own path..
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm
 
Hi Oscar. I love your question and this is my answer to you. I’d get a copy of Crisis of Conscience or you can read it from JWsurvey. Cedars has it under life stories on the right side of the Title page under life stories and it’s Cedar’s story “The Story of Cedars – A Prisoner No More” and you can read it for free if you prefer to read it that way.
Ray Franz was one of the Governing Body members of Jehovah’s Witnesses so he had an inside look at how the Watchtower is run. Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t allowed to read his book because Ray Franz was disfellowshipped for apostasy. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to read any literature that brings into doubt the legitimacy of the Watchtower’s claim that they are the only spokesman from God to man. So, that leaves out anything and everything that might teach differently than what the Watchtower teaches. Jehovah’s Witnesses are banned from examining the history of their own religion, while they do encourage all others that they study with to study the history of that other religion.
You need to read Crisis of Conscience before you talk to your Witness friend the next time and these are the questions I would ask them after you have read the book. Before you ask him or her any questions, first make it clear to them that you have read that book. Since you are not a Witness, you are allowed to read it. If any one of Jehovah’s Witnesses were allowed to read that book and read it, they would not be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses anymore, so that’s why it’s so very important that the Watchtower Society doesn’t want any of it’s followers to read that book.
Questions to ask your friend:
Have you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz (allow to answer and most likely will say no)
Ask why not? (allow to answer and will most likely say it’s because he was an apostate)
Ask them to define what is an apostate? (let them answer)
Ask them then if he got disfellowshipped for apostasy, it had to be after he turned apostate right? (They will say yes)
Ask them then what about the books he wrote for the Watchtower when he wasn’t disfellowshipped, such as the Aid to Bible Understanding and the James books? Would you (friend) consider those also to be apostate reading? (They won’t know what to say)
Ask them, at what point do you think his writing would be considered apostate? (They won’t know what to say)
Ask them, what if Ray Franz, when he was still in good standing, disagreed with the majority of the Governing Body when it came to major Watchtower policy? Would you say then that he was going against the Holy Spirit since he was going against what the majority said was the “truth?” (Let them answer. They won’t know what to say, but they might think that he was going against Holy Spirit.
Ask them if as long as the majority made major decisions affecting the rest of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then the Holy Spirit would be helping them to make a correct decision then? (They’d probably say yes)
Tell the Witness friend that when Ray Franz was on the Governing Body in 1972, the majority of the Governing Body made it policy that it wasn’t adultery for a man to have sex relations with an animal or another man but it was Ray Franz who went against the majority of the Governing Body and argued that it was adultery and grounds for divorce.
Ask that friend of yours: So who do you think had the Holy Spirit, Ray Franz or the Governing Body? (Let them answer) They would have to say Ray Franz or else why would the Watchtower have had to just a few months later, admit they had made a mistake it was adultery and grounds for divorce and print a retraction.
So, the last question to your Witness friend would be: So, why do you think that the Watchtower disfellowshipped Ray Franz, when he obviously did have the Holy Spirit and the rest did not? Do, you think it’s possible that they disfellowshipped him to keep him quiet so he would not be able to tell anybody about how the Watchtower does not have God’s Holy Spirit after all and that’s why his books are banned?????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 29, 2014 at 10:43 am
 
Hi Oscar. I have done a little more research and I wanted to add to my last comment to you.
Before you start asking your Witness friend the questions that I posted to you above, I would like to have you start out with this questions first:
What would you think of a religion that told it’s members that it was not scriptural grounds for divorce and remarry if one of the mates had homosexual intercourse with someone other than their mate or if they had sex with animals and that the innocent mate had to stay with that person. If they did divorce and remarry, they’d be excommunicated? What would you think of that religion?
(Allow for response. They will probably think it’s a terrible religion)
Ask your friend: Is this a religion you would want to belong to? Do you think God could be approving and blessing a religion like that?
Now Oscar this is for your information and this is a direct quote from the 1956 Watchtower Oct. 1, page 591 “Sodomy (or the unnatural intercourse of one male with another male as with a female), Lesbianism (or the homosexual relations between women), and bestiality (or the unnatural sexual relations by a man or woman with an animal) are not scriptural grounds for divorce.”
This was official Watchtower policy from at least 1956 until the December 1972 page 767 Watchtower when it was Ray Franz who was able to convince the rest of the Governing Body the error of the Watchtower’s ways and they decided it was adultery and grounds for divorce after all.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 29, 2014 at 11:10 am
 
Oscar, you can relate what that 1956 Watchtower says and they can look it up if they don’t believe you, which they probably won’t but they might come back with the “that’s old light” excuse but then you could say “no, it wouldn’t be old light because they restated the very same policy in the 1972 Watchtower January 1, pages 31, 32.
Your Witness friend won’t have an answer for that. You, knowing all this is something your friend has been purposely kept in the dark about. It’s a cult and not a very good one at that. Run as fast as you can from it and don’t get involved. That is my advice if you want to be happy.
Reply
 
 
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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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172 Responses to Welcome

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 anonymous says:

 October 29, 2014 at 11:31 am
 
and Oscar, in that 1956 Watchtower quoted above about marriage, it said that the reason why there is so much marital unhappiness is that a lot of women don’t realize that they are “inferior” to men. Need I say more????
Reply
 
 holy connoli says:

 June 3, 2015 at 1:35 am
 
@anonymous? Do you know if we can still read the 1956 Watchtower on line? If I go to JW.orf do you think the articles will go back that far? I would like to see and read that quote.
Thanks,
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 3, 2015 at 4:58 am
 
@holy connoli, I don’t think you can. I got a 1956 bound volume off of Ebay but they are far and few in between. If you can get one though, grab it. Those articles are eye-opening as far as how the Society views women. I think that is why you can’t get those old Watchtower articles on jw online library. If you can find it, I would be curious though.
Reply
 
 holy connoli says:

 June 3, 2015 at 10:00 am
 
@anonymous. I had a bunch of old WT from the 1940’s nd 1950’s that I found in an old sisters house after she died about 20 years ago. I kept them for a while and then gave them away to a pioneer sister and she was going to put them in the Kingdom hall Library. Maybe they are still there but I doubt it. I used to like reading the Old WT’s at the time I thought they were pretty deep but now I realize they were just “WEIRD” interpretations that sounded like they were so deep! Now they disregard all that stuff ha!
 If I can get hold of them I will let you know.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 1:11 am
 
and Oscar, to add to my last comment. You might also ask your Witness friend why it was not adultery and grounds for divorce in that religion for a man to have sex relations with another man or an animal for all those years but at the very same time if the husband had a vasectomy so his wife couldn’t get pregnant and she had artificial insemination so she could have a child, that was grounds for divorce for the husband so he could get rid of his wife??????
Ask your Witness friend if they would want to belong to that religion?????
Believe it or not, that still is the case today. That has never been done away with in the Watchtower.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 1:18 am
 
and Oscar, since the man knew he was sterile, he could turn his wife in for adultery and get a divorce from her for adultery her because she had artificial insemination and she would be disfellowshipped for that. That is the demonic thinking and background of the Jehovah’s Witness religion. Do you really want to belong to a religion that treats women like that?????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:17 am
 
and Oscar, another way a man can divorce his wife for adultery is if she survives a rape (Watchtower June 1, 1968 page 348). If a woman survives an attack, not only will her husband be able to divorce her for adultery, she could be disfellowshipped for adultery as well. Who do you think is the God of this religion???? It sure sounds demonic to me……
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:24 am
 
and Oscar, in the Jehovah’s Witness religion, if a child is molested and raped, they have to have two witnesses to the molestation or rape or if they do not have witnesses and the attacker denies the attack, the elders will do nothing to the attacker and if the victim should report the attack or molestation to the police, it will be the child or adult victim who could be threatened with being shunned because of that child would be the one bringing reproach on the Organization and not the attacker.
What do you think of a religion like that? Do you really think a loving and just God could be at the helm????? Or does it sound more like a Satanic religion????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:33 am
 
and Oscar, if you or your child should be in an accident and need a blood transfusion, in this religion you can’t take the blood to save your life or your child’s life or you will be disfellowshipped. The Watchtower religion says not to worry though because even if you or your child should die, at least you were faithful to the Watchtower God and he will resurrect you back on the earth, where there is not one single scripture that tells you that in the Bible. You are just to take their word for it.
Kind of sounds like what the serpent told Eve in the Garden of Eden, doesn’t it??????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:40 am
 
and Oscar, just to add some frosting on the cake: If you ever decide to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and get baptized into it, and you found out that the the Watchtower is lying to you, you are not allowed to disassociate yourself from it for the rest of your life. If you do, you will be disfellowshipped and shunned for the rest of your life and not allowed to talk to anybody still in that religion, even if it’s your own relatives.
Is that the kind of religion you really want to be part of?????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:51 am
 
and Oscar, if you ever go to a meeting at the Kingdom Hall, all the Witnesses are trained to “love bomb” you to make you think they will just love you to pieces if you become one of them, but the moment you doubt any of the teachings, they will drop you like a hot brick.
Does this sound like a cult to you??????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:00 am
 
and Oscar, if you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you will be judged on how you look, how much you participate at meetings and how many hours you get in service. If you don’t measure up, you are considered weak and bad association…. Also, there’s over 1,000 rules you must follow or you will be considered bad association if you should break those rules…..
Are you sure this is the life for you??????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:08 am
 
and Oscar, they will tell you that they are the only religion going from door to door preaching the Bible and even that isn’t true because Mormons do it too. But it doesn’t matter to them that what they preach from door to door, can’t be proven in the Bible or not. It’s just important to them that they go from door to door and to them, that is enough for them to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and think that they are the only ones approved by God. If you don’t do all of this, you will be considered a weed and killed at Armageddon. They are that self-righteous.
Don’t be fooled into believing this. The Witnesses have been tricked into this religion by scare tactics and they are brainwashed. I know because I was one for 50 years.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:48 am
 
and Oscar, if you do decide to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you have to say good bye to ever going to any R rated movies again, or reading any literature other than Watchtower literature and you had better not talk about anything you saw on television or looking at anything on the internet except jw.org or you will be considered bad association. The only thing other Witnesses want to hear from you is experiences you had in service. Anything else is frowned on. That is drummed into Witnesses in almost every Watchtower magazine and don’t even think about telling an off-color joke or using a cuss word unless you want to be kicked out on your heels.
Is that the kind of straight jacket life for you????? If so, then being a Jehovah’s Witness is perfect for you.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 6:49 am
 
and Oscar, if you do decide to go ahead and have a “book, Bible” study with your witness friend, expect your friend to listen to you and be your best friend all the time you are “studying” with them but you will be expected to “progress” in the “truth” to going to every meeting (5 meetings a week) and every assembly (3 assemblies every year). If you don’t “progress”, you will be dropped and you will be very hurt by the experience so if you want to keep this Witness as your friend, you had better “progress” in the “truth”. Right now, unless you are a Witness, you are “bad association” for them, even though they won’t come right out and tell you that.
Once you are regular at meetings, you will be expected to progress to answering and preparing for all those meetings and joining the ministry school and giving Bible talks in front of the congregation. But yay, they clap for you when you give your first talk, making you feel like a “star”.
You will be expected to progress to going from door to door. You will be expected to “pioneer” or have a darn good excuse not to do it. If you are unable to “pioneer” (70 hours door to door every month), you are to have the “pioneer” spirit.
If you are a man, you are expected to “progress” to being an elder and that is spending endless hours preparing for talks, giving talks and going to the Kingdom Hall for endless meetings and leaving your family at home most of the time.
You will be expected to give up all your Saturdays and Sundays for the talk and Watchtower study and for going from door to door and if you get old enough to retire, you will be expected to use all those extra hours you now have to “pioneer” or have a good excuse not to.
You will be expected to marry only somebody who is also one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You will not be allowed to send your children to college or you will be looked down on but you will sit in your Kingdom Hall, surrounded by people who did go to college before they became a Jehovah’s Witness, and see them be the “toast” of the congregation but because you didn’t go to college and can’t afford a nice house or nice car, people will gravitate to those who did go to college and have the nice cars and lots of money.
If you have children, you will be overlooked as an elder, unless your child gets baptized at an early age and if your child doesn’t fit the mold (does something wrong or doesn’t want to go to Bethel and pioneer when they get out of high school), you will be deleted as an elder because you didn’t raise your child properly.
Forget vacations. They will be spent at assemblies. That is the only time you are allowed to spend any money that you might have saved up during your year. If you are able to have a vacation where you don’t have to spend it at assemblies, you will have to take meeting clothes along so you don’t miss any meetings wherever you spend your vacation.
Right now, I can’t really think of anything good about being a Jehovah’s Witness, except that they won’t go to war but I am still thinking…….
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:04 am
 
and Oscar, if you do get married and your mate decides to leave you and divorces you, you are not allowed to remarry, unless your mate remarries first or admits to adultery or you will be disfellowshipped.
Does this religion still sound appealing to you?????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:18 am
 
Oscar, I thought of one good thing. You don’t have to spend money on Christmas presents anymore. You won’t have to spend money on birthday presents anymore or valentines cards or mother’s days gifts or father’s day gifts. You won’t be able to celebrate Thanksgiving with your family anymore because you don’t want to give any of your relatives the impression that you celebrate Thanksgiving day. The only friends your children will be allowed to have are Witness kids. Your kids will have to go out in the hall every time there’s some kind of holiday that your kids won’t be able to partake of. You will have to sit while everybody stands for the National Anthem. Your kids won’t be able to say the pledge at school. Your kids will be expected to preach to their school mates as that’s their own “personal territory”. Your kids won’t be able to join the football team or be a cheerleader or go to school dances.
Are you there yet? Sound good to you????
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:27 am
 
and Oscar, I thought of another good thing. You will save money on lottery tickets because you aren’t allowed to gamble even if it’s just one lottery ticket. You can’t say gosh, golly or gee because that’s swearing. You can’t vote and can’t get involved in political talk because then you aren’t being neutral. You can’t play chess because that’s too violent.
I am still trying to think of some good things about being a Witness, but I am running out of space in my brain…..
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:28 am
 
and Oscar, last but not least is you are not allowed to think. The Watchtower has already done that for you.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 30, 2014 at 11:51 am
 
Oscar
You cannot get involved in Politics or vote but the WT can Secretly Join the United nations and promote it and then as soon as it is found out 10 years later they immediately withdraw from the UIN and claim they only joined to do Library research? That is an out right lie bc you do not need to join to do library research. They also TEACH that ALL governments are from Satan but yet they have applied to receive Government money in Countries like Sweden, Norway and others just like the state gives money to the Lutheran Church and Catholic Church as well but they have to be approved? So the WT is or has received Money from Satan’s governments to support themselves. Also all governments are from Satan but yet they apply and use the World Court systems and European international Court to promote themselves and make sure their rights are not violated. SO I guess Satan is helping them since he runs the government right?
Reply
 
 
 Rosie says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:03 pm
 
Oscar
One other thing, if you are still thinking that becoming a JW could be a good idea. If you have close friends who do not want to join you in becoming a JW – you will no longer be allowed to have any friendship with them. You will be advised that they are bad associations.
I can recall a young lady who started studying with the JWs. She was warmly embraced into the bosom of the congregation (love bombed) and invited to all the congregational social occasions. Unfortunately she had a very close friend (a very nice lady) who although willing to meet her new JW friends did not want to join her in studying in order to become one.
I watched as the Sister who studied with her (along with others in the congregation), brutally and cruelly severed the long and close relationship between these two friends until they no longer had any contact with each other.
Please take heed of what Anonymous has written. This JW organisation is like the apple that Snow White ate in the fairy-tale. Rosy in appearance on the outside but full of poison within.
Reply
 
 
 CARLOS says:

 November 3, 2014 at 7:02 am
 
The brothers in charge are just doing the best they can, The interest is pleasing God.
Don’t like this group? Join one that lets you have more freedom, one that lets you be you.
Want to hear what you like and not what is correct. then there are many other groups that seem like they do but really don’t.
Or better yet don’t belong to a group, just do yr own thing.
If you hate structure and organization, don’t be a JW
I could not be happier after 56 years of being a witness, and i have seen not all but a great deal.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 3, 2014 at 10:59 am
 
Carlos
It isn’t about hating structure or not. It is about being part of a dictatorship or not. It is about accepting or rejecting abuse by an Organization that try’s to controls your every waking hour and thoughts. It is about belonging to a Religion that separates and destroys families if someone in the religion just happens to disagree with a teaching or a “New Light” ever changing prophecy. If the WT had a track record of being correct on anything that would be one thing but their record is HORRIBLE, their predictions are off the chart WRONG but yet they discriminate against anyone who says hey, I cannot accept that line of thought based on past practice and I cannot accept never ever being able to have a relationship with my family. children, spouse or friends if I do no accept the teaching of WT.
Why should we accept the 2 witness rule for child molestation and the hidden secrets of the WT on policy making in this regard? It is morally Wrong, and illegal from a human standpoint. So may issues with the WT ever changing teachings, So it isn’t about structure Carlos it is about damage control and hurt that they cause and have caused over 100 years.
Can you name 1 PROPHECY that they have uttered or predicted that has proven true? Just 1. Please don’t be vague. Be Specific and point out true facts of fulfilling prophecy by the WT.
Glad you are in a good place Carlos but we have to be honest in our viewpoints of accuracy. Many of the JW’s I have recently spoke with on the “NEW LIGHT” Generation explanation are now saying it doesn’t really matter to me if 1914 is true or not? Really? Wow! This was and is the Central teaching of the JW’s for the last 80 years. They were SO Forthright that there was no room for error and so convincing that Jesus came in 1914 and the Generation ABOSLUTELEY without ANY DOUBT would no t Pass away before the New Order came. There was no room for discussion. You as a 56 year old member no doubt recall EVERY AWAKE Magazine Published it on the inside cover until it became evident that they were SO WRONG! Do they acknowledge their error? Do they apologize? Do they say anything about the other DUFF Prophecies?
False predications are only 1 item we are discussing here. Can you please show me 1 prediction or prophecy they said that came true? Just one.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 November 3, 2014 at 11:25 am
 
Carlos, can you find even one scripture in the Bible that says that the earth is going to be turned into a paradise?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 9, 2014 at 3:07 am
 
Carlos? With all due respect to you in sincerity can you answer my questions about accuracy of Prophecy from the Watchtower please?
Reply
 
 
 Cacanisso says:

 December 10, 2014 at 7:50 am
 
My mother in law during his life, fought fervently to bring people to JW (house preaching at home). Today, is a home of the 3rd Age, and for 07 years, never seen there, a stupor of JW or WT or Tvgia, to wonder, how many hours does a month, or you need diapers or have other needs, perhaps esperitual up, nothing. As had legs to walk from house to house, they said the brother was very s spiritual. Today, no one seeks to know it. My mother, constantly giving, or deposited in the box and contributions paid once € 700 / dollars, the chairs of a hall of Albufeira, Algarve. I’ve never been caught by WT, because me and my wife, we are smart, never let it be manipuados by the mind control.
Reply
 
 
 Johnny p says:

 December 19, 2014 at 5:38 pm
 
I find it interesting that so many ex-jw’s end up being atheist or agnostic. Does anyone else find that interesting or telling?
They learn while being a JW how backwards other churches and religions are, but then when they realize the WT has its dark side, it becomes unthinkable to continue the search in earnest – and so many revert to atheism or agnosticism. I find that sad, and it leaves me realizing that while it may be true WT doesn’t have “the (whole) truth”, its not as if anti-WT people have any “sayings of everlasting life”. These sites just leave me more thirsty than anything.
Reply
 
 
 Johnny p says:

 December 19, 2014 at 5:58 pm
 
Holy: Why do you care what Carlos believes? Do you have some better religion you plan on sharing with him? If he is happy in being a JW for 56 years – why is it your job to change his mind?
Again, I find it very curious why someone agnostic (not saying you are – but the website owner) thinks showing people why JWs are false is good for people like Carlos. If you dont have something better to relate – or “good news” to share – then you just want to tear him down to believe nothing? Its like bothering to tell everyone on the Titanic who was praying and crying to God that no one was listening and they had no hope of a heavenly life – just for kicks.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 December 23, 2014 at 2:18 pm
 
Johnny P
Fair question you asked.
 First Let me say I am not an agnostic or atheist.
 Never have been. Even before my 20 plus years with the JW’s.I will ask the JW’s the same question? Why are they “HELL BENT” on changing other peoples belief to the JW belief? Why is their entire purpose to convert other religions to their own religion. We all know that they publicly teach that EVERY OTHER religion except for the JW”S are part of the worldwide false religious structure known as “BABYLON” the Great correct? That includes ALL Christian and non Christian religions.
 Every last one of them all soon to be destroyed at the battle of Armageddon.So if these othe non JW’s are happy why do they bug them and tell them they are so wrong? Why do they try to convert them to the JW’s?
That being said, I was originally answering a question that Carlos proposed about religious structure and I answered him.There could be people “happy” in the Hari Krishnas, or the Scientologists or the Moonies,or the Jim Jones Cult, or the David Koresh people in Texas etc.That doesn’t mean I cannot give an opinion. The question was put up who else has sayings of everlasting life? According to the Bible only Jesus does. Not some religious organization or sect. The point I made is you do not have to belong to some Exclusive group to have salvation. Nowhere does the bible state that. It says only Jesus has sayings of eternal life. Not the Catholics, Muslims, or the WT Org.I will ask you the same question in sincerity that I asked Carlos and many others. Can you show me explicitly 1… just 1 prediction or prophecy that proves beyond a doubt that the JW’s foretold am major prophecy accurately? Or that 1 thing they said came explicitly true in the past 75 years? Please don’t refer to some general event. I mean Specifically something the WT has ever said that came true on time without a doubt?
I was tying to get Carlos to think that is all, He doesn’t have to belong tot he WT to have Gods blessing. That is the whole thing with Cults. They brainwash their member s to think they have special favor or inside information on God that no OTHER group has in the entire earth. The WT has done a good Job at doing that to its members.
So I ask you if you can please show me one prophecy or prediction in the last 75 years or ever that the WT has undisputable proof that what they said came true?
Peace to all
Reply
 
 
 
 Grace formally Thankyouall! says:

 December 19, 2014 at 6:16 pm
 
I suppose it depends on what sayings of everlasting life you are looking for johnny p. I think you’re assuming much if you think that most become athiest or agnostic. If you believe the essence of Jesus’ teachings it seems clear that he came to lighten up the overburdened sheep from the pharisaical leadership & to give each person the dignity to discern for themselves what is right & wrong from the principals he set forth with his parables.
Sayings of everlasting life is a personal thing. Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual needs. Spirituality relies on personal faith & not how you are perceived to look or act or obedience to a man made entity.
Since I stepped back in to the ‘world’ away from wt indoctrination, I have come to appreciate just how spiritual many people are in the ‘world’. People who show a more loving spirit without judgement than what I experienced with the so called true Christians. I had to step outside though to really appreciate that.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 December 23, 2014 at 2:01 pm
 
Johnny P
 Did you get my last response ?
Reply
 
 
 Honesty says:

 March 27, 2015 at 7:04 am
 
Now I see, I just realized what this website is really all about. YOU ARE (APOSTATES!!!) Now I clearly understand the faulty critisim and lies! You were disfellowshiped! No wonder you’re angry or bitter, and speak against Jehovah and his true worshippers! So now I really putty you all. What a waste…lol
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 March 27, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
Honesty. Really? It took you that long to figure out that people on here are not promoters of the WT and the JW cult? No one is hiding the position they are taking. Unlike the WT that tries to hide their true past and all the errors and mistakes they made and continue to make. If the WT was honest they would come out and admit their errors and hundreds of false duff prophecies and change their ways. Of course they won’t do that bc they are not humble and certainly not honest with their past or present. Can I ask you the same question I have asked dozens and perhaps hundreds of other JW’s?
Can you show me 1. Just one accurate prophecy the JW”s have spoken over the last 135 years of their existence that has come true without a doubt?
 They have uttered and predicted many many things and to my knowledge not ONE thing has come true. Please don’t be general and quote 1:tim 3:1-5 I mean specific like who is the King of the North and King of the South? When is Gods Kingdom coming ? Why is 1914 been reinterpreted again? How come the 1914 generation is gone and nothing happened that they said without a doubt it would? Gog of Magog? The WT has flip floppedso MANY times how do you know what to believe anymore? It reminds me of all the other religions that have been proved wrong on their predictions of the end of the world. JW’s are no different at all except they are meaner than most of the other ones. So I ask you in sincerity ? Can you show me one prophecy the JW’s have predicated that has come true in the last 135 years? Just 1 with accuracy.
Reply
 
 
 
 A says:

 May 5, 2015 at 6:40 pm
 
if Paul told us to keep the congressional clean , then why does God allow wheat and weeds grow together?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 May 5, 2015 at 7:31 pm
 
Honesty
I was never disfellowshipped. I am not considered an apostate but the truth is the WT is a Hypocritical religion full of duff fake prophecies and they hide the truth about themselves and the inner chambers and secrets of what goes on in the GB.I was an Elder for 12 years and many other “privileges” We have to face reality and just read what the true history of the WT is and how they hide their own sins to look good to the public. They have rewritten their own history to trey to put s great picture of themselves but the truth is they lie. They are cruel and they divide and hurt families. NOT ONE prophecy they have ever said has come true. PLEASE NAME me 1 accurate prophecy they have uttered that is true? Just 1undeniable prediction or prophecy that they can prove beyond a doubt?. This is my challenge to you and any other JW apologists.
Reply
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 8:23 am
 
Honesty
really
 you were an elder??
this is all about salvation… this is not a social club
 please then
“honesty”…
honestly tell me what the true religion you now go to for salvation…
or have you now become atheist or agnostic
 please… i’m listening
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 1, 2015 at 8:29 am
 
There are three possibilities on the table:
 1) That all religions are true
 2) That all religions are false
 3) That only one religion is true
 The first proposition is clearly impossible, since most religions (including yours) tend to be mutually exclusive.
 My position, that of proposition 2, is the most easily defensible of the three, and explains why there is so much carnage and immorality in the holy books (because religion is man-made).
 If you maintain that proposition 3 is correct, and furthermore that your religion just happens to be the right one, the burden of proof is on you to convince me and everyone else that Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone, have been chosen as the one true religion by the Creator of the universe.
Prove this, and I will take down this website and my YouTube channel.
Good luck.



Reply
 
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 8:26 am
 
my comments were directed to holy canoli
 the former elder… who only severed for ?? what reason again??
Reply
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 12:25 pm
 
Not all religions are true…
You need to do the work to find out which one is… I have…
Not all religions are false… I have done the work and have drawn the conclusion that Jehovah’s witness have it…
Only one way can be true by definition… there is only one way to do something right…
You position is very very myopic and short sighted… when measured against the bible
 There is such a concept as faith
 What have you put your faith in??
 Jehovah’s witness have put their faith in the bible… and thus all your bashing should be measured against it…
We are not perfect and do not claim perfection…. We attempt to serve God according to what the bible instructs… if we get it wrong we attempt to modify and move forward…
It is not for you to determine how we are to act…
The whole message from the bible is who has the right to dictate…
A lot of the observations stated here are true… so what… ill state it again… it is about salvation… this is not a social club…
We communicate the truth as we understand it from the bible… if you think the world is a better place without Jehovah… enjoy… no one is twisting your arm… we are not killing anyone… let the internet educate you and guide your life…
But… according to the bible… as all JW’s discussions should be directed from… there will be a settling of matters… and Jehovah… or the God you may know as the creator of all things… will
 I do not need to prove anything to you
 It seems you are a hater of all religion good or bad… but just want to lash out at JW’s
 I don’t believe in the god of good luck
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 1, 2015 at 1:00 pm
 
@apologist, I was in this religion for 50 years so I know what you are saying is what we all believed at one time. I have another challenge for you. Take out your Bible and read Numbers chapter 31 all the way through and tell me how much you love serving Jehovah then. Please do that and come back and defend that God, Jehovah. Something that I don’t want you to miss is how after Moses is to go and kill thousands of Midianites for supposedly no reason at all, they were to take all their hundreds of thousands of animals and all their little girls and the booty was taxed and if I am not mistaken, 10% of the booty was to go to the Levites, including 10% all the little girls that they captured, having had killed their mothers and fathers and little brothers. Can you answer why the Levites would need all those little girls????? This is the God you worship.
Reply
 
 
 
 Cedars says:

 June 1, 2015 at 12:30 pm
 
“I have done the work and have drawn the conclusion that Jehovah’s witness have it…”
Should I take that as an attempted answer to my challenge?
“We are not perfect and do not claim perfection….”
No, you just punish former members who no longer agree with you through shunning, and threaten anyone who doesn’t want to be a Witness with death at Armageddon. How humble.
Reply
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 2:08 pm
 
Anonymous
 It took you 50 years to realize you could not stomach decisions made by the creator
 I think quite a few people died with the flood…
But… its ok
 You tell God how to behave…
Btw… what belief system do you follow now…
Have you found a better one… please tell me… if there is a better one I will follow…
Cedars…
you have no challenge… you do not make any sense
 if salvation exists… there is only one way to get it… if not by JW’s then by who
 as opposed to… religion is man made…
if you were ever a witness you know that from the bibles perspective there is salvation and it boils down to belief
 You just want attention and that is why you have created this site which is not a Neutral place of expression…
Are you a former member that feels punished… what did you think you were joining the girls club
 This is about serving GOD… JEHOVAH GOD
 Who are you to say it is wrong to shun bad behavior
 Noooooooo lets accept anything we want
 This is so funny you guys treat religion like it is a club that you no longer want part of because it is just too hard
 Did you guys ever read what is in the bible…. It is not easy serving God… especially when all this world wants is to hurt people… how can I place myself in Gods head to understand why in Numbers… as stated by anonymous… that happened
 Remember
 The belief is that this system is coming to an end
 You do not think that people will die???
 Again… a belief…don’t like it … don’t believe!!!
 It is not about this life… it is about the other life
 Faith
 Remember
 Cedars…
Please provide a better solution than to be a witness I challenge you!!!
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 June 1, 2015 at 2:24 pm
 
apologist,
Why do you, and so many other JW supporters, fail to write at an adult level?
Why do you fail to use question marks when asking a question?
Why do you use elipses incorrectly?
Why do you even bother to comment at all?
You and your ilk are all the same! You have no concept of logic, reason or sense!
Why don’t you do yourself and us a favour? Go and do your own research into your religion, buy a non JW bible, and go and read it, without the WT commentary.
Go and do something kind for someone less fortunate than yourself, that would make JESUS happy indeed!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 June 1, 2015 at 3:03 pm
 
@apologist, have you ever researched the history of the Bible and how we got it? We were always told from Watchtower that the Bible is inspired or God breathed and you should know there is not even one original manuscript from the original writers of the Bible so no Bible is actually inspired of God. They are copies of copies and translations of translations. There is no proof at all that any Bible today was actually transcribed by God (if there is a God).
Did you realize if you read your Bible that when Moses left Egypt, he went to live in Midian and married a Midianite girl and had Midianite children and then in Numbers chapter 31, for no reason at all, God tell him to go and kill all the Midianites? He had just left Midian and his father-in-law Jethro helped him with his judging of the Israelites and Jethro goes back to Midian and then in Numbers, he is to go and kill every man, woman and child in Midian, except for all the little girls were their booty. They were supposed to check those little girls to make sure they had never had intercourse with a man. How do you think they would have done that? Then, 90% of those girls, they could keep for themselves and the rest they had to give to the Levite priests at the Temple.
You say that I am telling God what he can do? I don’t have to worship a God like that but if you want to, go ahead. Just don’t judge anybody else if they don’t want to. And yes, it took me 50 years to figure it out that it’s all fiction. That is why I don’t hold it against any God because I don’t believe any of it happened in the first place. Even the Awake magazine had an article in the April 8, 2004 issue pages 1,2 Titled “Moses- Man or Myth?” that said that there is no physical evidence that Moses ever existed or that there was ever the Exodus.
You should read your magazines.
As far as giving you a replacement religion, why is that anybody’s else’s responsibility? Lloyd has given a very good illustration and you should pay attention to it. If somebody comes along and warns you during the night that your house is on fire and gets you out of the house, is it his responsibility then to provide you with a new house?????
Think about it.
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 5:52 am
 
@apologist, I am waiting for you to come back and defend your God. Where are you????
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 June 1, 2015 at 3:18 pm
 
Lloyd has a good illustration and this is it. If somebody comes along and sees that your house is on fire and it is night time and you are most likely sleeping and he knocks on your door and wakes you up so you can escape being burned to death in your house fire, is it then that person’s responsibility to provide you with a new house?
Yes, sorry to say but it did take me 50 years to “wake” up. Your coming onto this web site is a good sign that maybe you aren’t afraid to learn a thing or two if you stick around a while.
Reply
 
 
 holy connoli says:

 June 2, 2015 at 3:28 am
 
Apologist?
 You said it took 50 years to not agree with decisions made by the Creator? Which decisions from the all knowing perfect Creator are you referring to in the last 50 years? Do you mean the ever , ever changing doctrines of 1914, the F&DS,
 the sheep and the goats, The type and the anti type ( may 15th 2015 WT study article ) The basis for scriptural divorce, If you can or cannot speak with a DF person, Gog of Magog, The king of the North and the King of the South, Who will and will not be resurrected, If you can or cannot serve on a jury, if you can vote or not, What is considered sacred service?,If you should have children or marry in this system or just pioneer,1918 and 1919 and if they are bible prophecy being full filled,
 Does Jehovah have his own planet he dwells on?,
 the declension to “SECRETELY” join the UN an then quickly resign when it became public,all the other many many decesions and flip flop teachings that the T continually changes… so are thoise the decisions you are referring to from the Creator who never makes a mistake and knows the end before the beginning? Either the Wt or Jehovah the Creator have it wrong. I will opt that the WT is the wrong one here! You cannot based on the track record of the WT connect God and the WWT as one and the same.
Reply
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 June 1, 2015 at 3:23 pm
 
@Apologist,
When you get skinned & thrown about by the very religion your defending. We will welcome you here with open arms. It’s only a matter of time.
Reply
 
 
 holy connoli says:

 June 2, 2015 at 3:06 am
 
Apologist:
 You claim that the JWs get all their info from the bible. That is only true to the extent that YOU MUST believe their explanation of it and only theirs. If you dare have a different understanding of the bible you will be Disfellowshipped if you dare speak of it.
You mention this is not a “SOCIAL CLUB” but is about salvation. Actually the JW’s act more like a social club than a real social club! They have SO MANY MAN MADE Social Rules you must observe to be a member in good standing. Hair cuts, must wear a tie or suit, No Beards,
 no pants for woman, Must report Hours of field service each month, You cannot play on a sports team, No cheerleading, Cannot support your school, you cannot attend the prom,no dating, no cub scouts, no boy scouts,
 no girl scouts, you cannot attend a wedding at another church, you cannot attend the funeral of even a family member at another church, No Celebrations at all! No wind chimes, No toasting at a retirement party, the list goes on and on and on and on! If you ever dare to leave this “Religious Social Club” you will be punished and your own family, children cannot talk with you ? That is insanity! So if we are talking about salvation are these man made derogatory rules necessary for Salvation? The Bible is clear on salvation. It is not thru a religious system or religious organization but only thru faith in God and thru Jesus. Christianity is a simple faith. The WT and other religious cults has made it difficult. They tie all kinds of weights around the necks of believers and throw the guilt of God’s disfavor on them continually..you cannot earn salvation it is a gift.
I asked apologist to show me just 1 prediction or prophecy that the WT has made in 135 years that has come true without any fuzzy explanation. What have they directly predicted that proved accurate historically
 without a doubt. Show mw a prediction the WT uttered that you can point to and say see, HERE IT IS! We said this event would happen on this day and this year and this time and here it is. Please show me one that is true that they have EVER uttered.
Reply
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 7:15 am
 
I’m here
 working on my response
 comments coming shortly
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 7:55 am
 
I can hardly wait….
Reply
 
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 7:25 am
 
Excelsior… excelsior… excelsior
 Your concern is my writing ability??
 Elipses??
 Why comment… I thought this is a place to express ones thoughts… only your one sided ones count then… hmmmm
 I have no concept of logic… reason… or sense… please defend this statement… be specific… otherwise it makes no logic reason or sense… it then just becomes an attack statement… are you afraid you might learn something… hmmmm
 Buddy
 I’ve done my research… and can defend its findings
 My reply to you is being kind… because you seem like a lost cause… you only attack and say nothing at all…
Please take a stand and defend it.
Reply
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 10:12 am
 
looks like cedars is blocking me from answering
 oh well… on him not me
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 2, 2015 at 10:33 am
 
If I’m blocking you, I’m clearly not doing a good job am I? Actually I’m letting you comment for now, because you brilliantly showcase the levels of ignorance, arrogance and credulity required to venture on this website and still defend Watchtower.
Reply
 
 
 
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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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172 Responses to Welcome

← Older Comments
 
 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 10:15 am
 
Anonymous
 If there is a god? It took you 50 years… half a century to figure out that it is all one big story…
ok…
fantastic for you… you figured it out… I do not agree with you… I believe…
So where do we stand?
 You do not believe… tell the world from the mountain tops… go door to door to tell people that there is no god… knock yourself out… you have that right… Please do…
But if you want to quote scripture… that is a different story… my understanding here is that we are not to be preachy… so I have resisted quoting scripture…
Also…
Your issue is that the bible is just a story…
I am confused as to what you want to talk about…
I believe the bible is true… you do not… one issue…
2nd issue… if it were true… god is bad… according to the section in numbers you keep quoting… I believe God is love… obviously a conflict… one which you have not resolved… I have…
Two very different issues…
Actually you state a 3rd issue… judgment…
I do not judge you… I will be judged by a judge… who I believe (you do not) that he will judge all…
My belief system commands me to share this knowledge… it is my religion… I live and a free society that allows this… if me acting on my beliefs disturbs you… you need to remind yourself where you have chosen to live…
You not believing in a god may disturb me… but I have to accept it…
On reading the magazines (you seem to enjoy them)
 I do read the magazines… just because there is no physical evidence… does not… in my opinion… mean it did not happen or exist… that is why it is called a belief… that is why it is faith… in Gods word… the bible…
I am not asking for a replacement religion…
Using your illustration… JW’s have provided you the house to save you from the fire…
You do not like the house they are providing….
What I am asking then… is that house on fire a better place for JW’s?
 If you do not agree that your house is on fire and the JW has made a mistake… please be kind to the JW… who is attempting to be kind to you… and tell him how the house you are living in is a better place… or is it not something you want to do… which is ok too…
Look obviously this forum is from people who do not like JW’s… either they were one before and feel duped…mistreated… etc… or they have family members who are JW’s and they do not like how they behave…
You know that JW’s want to follow a religion… they truly believe they have found the one true religion… if you then say they are full of it… fine that is your right… but we as individuals still want to be part of the religion that we feel Jesus Christ formed… we believe it is the Jehovah’s Witness religion.
 Simple stating that we are wrong does nothing… even if we are wrong… we are ok with it…
THAT… is why I ask which one is better… because if there isn’t one… measured against the scriptures… then YES we are the true religion… measured against the scriptures…
As to me being afraid…
I am not afraid… It is my lack of fear that allowed me to discover the one true faith…
Reply
 
 General Madine says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:42 am
 
Did you not read the foreward? No evangelizing. You are truly hard-headed. Plus your comment is way too long. Apparently, your ‘faith’ doesn’t teach you the art of brevity. Or respect for the fact this site is a sanctuary.
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 1:31 pm
 
@apologist, I didn’t say that I don’t believe in God. I just said if there is a God, there is no proof that this God penned our modern Bibles and you must realize that yourself, don’t you?
All we have are copies of copies and translations of those copies. There is no way one way or the other what God would have written down since all those original manuscripts are long lost and gone. You should look up the history of how we got our Bibles. That is how I began to question whether or not it was really “inspired” of God or not.
What I am saying though is that with all the killing and slaughter of innocent people in the Bible that the Israelites did in conquering the “land of milk and honey”, it would make me think twice about what a “loving” God, Jehovah is.
If you research how the name of God (Jehovah) came about, it isn’t at all what Jackson said in his latest June broadcast. It was a Catholic monk that came up with that name in the 1200’s. Jackson is either stupid or he also doesn’t read the magazines, because it’s in the old Aid to Bible Understanding book and also in the February 1, 1980 Watchtower page 11, if you don’t believe me. So, Jackson was lying through his teeth when he says that Jehovah was in the original manuscripts.
If the Bible is true and without error, then that is a God that I would not and could never love and respect. I always thought the Bible was an embellished history of the Jews but I’d rather believe now that it’s fairy tales than to believe that those Jews were that blood thirsty and after little girls that had never had intercourse with a man. I can’t hate a god that I don’t believe in, can I?
You said that this web site is for people who don’t like Jehovah’s Witnesses? That could not be further from the truth. If Lloyd really didn’t love Jehovah’s Witnesses, he’d never have started this web site. We all love Jehovah’s Witnesses because we all were JW’s and yes we were deceived and duped and hate to see that happen to our loved ones who are still in the Organization, which if you stick around we can prove to you in spades.
Being in the Organization for all those years, I wondered why the Society was so strong against any of us accepting literature from the householder would be so bad for us if we really had the “truth”. Now I know. The Society doesn’t want us to accept any literature from anything or anybody who is critical of Watchtower because they are afraid our teachings might be proved wrong.
You should not be afraid to prove that the JW religion is right. You should take Lloyd’s challenge to prove that God is really backing the JW religion. He has said that if you can prove that God is really backing the JW religion, that he will gladly take down this web sit but so far, nobody has even tried to meet the challenge. You shouldn’t just take somebody’s word for it since you are devoting your life to it.
You should be able to prove that “apostates” are really lying if they are. You shouldn’t be afraid to put your religion to the test. All those years, I followed the advice from the Watchtower and never put my faith to the test. That is something you need to do. That is all we ask of you. Take Lloyd’s challenge. It can’t hurt you and you might be surprised at the results.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
@apologist, I have a sneaking suspicion that you are here counting your time but what they hey, whatever floats your boat.
I never said that I didn’t believe in God. I just said that if there is a God that there is no proof that he penned the Bible as we know it. Even the Society has to agree with that as per the foreword of the 1985 Kingdom Interlinear.
What I am saying though is that if there is a God, that I could never worship the God of the Hebrew Scriptures and if you want me to start listing all the scriptures that demonstrate it, I will be glad to start. I would prefer to think that it was fiction. I think anybody who would worship the God of the Hebrew Scriptures should be ashamed of themselves for even admitting that and I am not afraid to say that.
I am done with telling people from the rooftops of my beliefs. I did that for 50 years and found out that nothing I was telling those people was actually in the Bible and so yes I was duped.
As far as any of us commenting here, disliking JW’s, you could not be further from the truth. All of here, commenting, love Jehovah’s Witnesses.
If there was any chance that God was actually directing the JW religion, we’d all love to hear your evidence. Lloyd Evans has put that challenge out to you and anybody else defending the Watchtower and he has said that if you can prove that God is actually directing the Society that he will take down this site and I for one would go back to the Kingdom Hall. If you have any evidence, we would all love to hear it.
For people to say they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave class appointed by God, isn’t good enough. That is called circular reasoning. You need to have some kind of proof. That is what we’d all love to hear. If you have any proof, we will be listening to you.
You are right about one thing. If the JW religion is actually a Christian religion, then it should stand up against the Bible. Do you ever wonder why you are not allowed to read “apostate” literature? Can you prove any so-called apostate that they are wrong and you are right? If so, we are all ears.
What Jackson said in his June jwbroadcasting speech about Jehovah being in the Bible first in the 1600’s is a lie and he should know it but I don’t think even he reads the Watchtower literature because it was in the 1980 Feb. 1, Watchtower page 11 that that name was first invented by the Catholics in the 1200’s B.C. It is also in the old “Aid to Bible Understanding”. Don’t hit yourself over the head if you can’t keep up with all the “new light” in the literature because even the Governing Body don’t do it.
Do you realize apologist that you do not have a mediator between you and God? Jesus is only the mediator between Him and Jehovah. You should ask your elders about that. You might find yourself being called an apostate if you do that but look in the Insight book #2 under mediator for that little gem. You can learn a lot from us “apostates” if you dare to learn the truth about the “truth”.
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 5:53 pm
 
I meant the Jesus is the mediator between God and the 144,000 in the Insight Book #2, according to the Watchtower.
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 2:48 pm
 
I meant that Jehovah was invented by the Catholic Church in the 1200’s A.D. not B.C. My mistake.
Reply
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:13 pm
 
now I know what apostates are
 haters
 all you guys fit the bill
 if I am right or I am wrong is irrelevant
“crudulent”
big word
 it must make you feel important
 btw
 I am being blocked… I do not know if this will even get on
 no point in contuining
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 8, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
@apologist, you couldn’t be more wrong. We are out to save you your life. We just love you to pieces!!!
Reply
 
 
 anthony says:

 October 9, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
apostates is someone who gose against the teachings of the bible or one who leaves there former place of worship, J/WS encourage people to leave there current place of worship via letter, because they concider there organisation as truth and led by Jehovah
the truth is the jws have some correct teachings, but have also gone against some bible teachings which they take for granted
leaving an organisation is not apostacy if you discover certain teachings are wrong, which effect you as an individual
Jehovah or the almighty himself is the real one to decide who are apostates, Not us people who love judging people because they think a little different.
theres a lot of hate towards other religiouns coming from JWS themselves.
Reply
 
 
 
 apologist says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:20 pm
 
one more comment
 if it gets on
 any time spent here
 since I am counting my time
 I will subtract from my field service time
I will never get it back from you guys
 what a waste
Reply
 
 Vivian says:

 August 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm
 
Apologist, make the truth your own. These are words I sang much of my life. And truly worthy advice. I finally completely and honestly put action to those words. I started at the very very beginning with no reservations, absolutely open mind, almost like a child (but with adult fully developed mental faculties). I started with, is there a god? Lets just say there is enough evidence, now lets prove that god inspired the bible. Lets say you find enough unbiased sensical evidence, now prove the people in NY’s actions, past history, and information is absolutely accurate and really, (since you are to adhere to it with the same gravity of the bible) being inspired by god. You owe this type of absolute and complete research to yourself, your family and the creator of your universe. Anything less is insulting to yourself your family and god.
Reply
 
 
 Julie Willavage says:

 September 7, 2015 at 6:53 pm
 
Wow…good luck…..It is no wonder so many of us have left to find a happy life, without the constant fear and anxiety. I for one would rather not have to live if it was under their rules and regulations. I believe there is a God. He certainly wouldn’t make people believe something for decades and then just change his mind to see if people are faithful. That would not be a loving God. But you are free to believe what you like. Like I sad “Good Luck”
Reply
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:31 pm
 
@Apologist. I asked you a few times if you could PLEASE answer my question and show me 1 prophecy or prediction the JW’s or WT have predicted that has without doubt come true in the 135 short yes of their existence? Please be specific and not general. I have asked many JW’s the same thing and so far no one has been able to come up with 1..just 1 is all I ask. Please don’t just quote 1 tim 3:1-5 or something like things are really bad etc. When Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD it came true beyond doubt and there is historical evidence to back it up. So can you apologist show me 1 prophecy or prediction the WT has foretold that has come true?
Reply
 
 Julie Willavage says:

 September 7, 2015 at 6:55 pm
 
I agree!
Reply
 
 
 Starved says:

 September 26, 2015 at 5:25 am
 
Read the Vindication book series from the1930’s. There is some commentary on parts of Jeremiah that is so accurate about our day it gave me goosebumps. I’m putting the burden on you to get the publications because I don’t know you and I don’t know if it’s an honest hearted question or if you’re just another hater. Fact is, answers can be found. Reality is, you’ll never get them from current GB.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 26, 2015 at 10:01 am
 
To Starved:
So are you saying the teachings of the WT from the 1930’s is now acceptable belief?
 If it is true then why don’t they use it as a teaching method.The WT has eliminated all previous teachings from that aera and even from just a few years ago. Especially now with their new teaching that they do no longer believe or teach type and Anti-type. Since the book vindication is no longe available and hard to get a copy of can you share with me some accurate points that you said describe our day? That i snearly80-85years ago.
The onr thing I will admit they did teach that came at least partially true is the return to Palestine by the Jews and how it full filled prophecy and that did happen. However…. They changed that teaching also and said it only applied to “Spiritual” Israel and the land they returned to was the Spiritual paradise? Funny, the only thing they were half way correct on they deleted. We all know from Rutherfords writig he was an Anti-Semite.In his early takeover of the WT he waspro Jewish then later became very ant semetic even using rhetoric and words and name calling against Jews that would make that would
 be over the top Racist words today and were bakc then as well. Please send me the info on the accuracy of the predictions since I do not have access to that book. Even though they no longer teach it or believe it I would like to read it.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 8, 2015 at 1:18 pm
 
@starved. Actually the book vindication was based on Ezekiel unless I am mistaken. I did look at some of it on line but I could not find anything accurate in it that you claim. It is very wordy and very long and comes in 2-3 parts. Can you just tell me what they said and show me the pages that you claim is “SO ACCURATE” it gives you goosebumps? I found Nothing it when I looked at it on line.If it was so accurate don’t you think they would be usung it today an say look! We said it right here! Page …from the vindication book 1925 or whatever.The wt likes to pretend all the time that they knew all about 1914 before it occur ed and they quote half/truths about that they predicted it so if Vindication book has the better information I am sure it would be announced all over the place.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 October 13, 2015 at 8:17 pm
 
the watchtower society works a little bit like these false furtune tellers, they made all kinds of speculation dates, When they failed, They remain quiet, But if something should remotely happen to support there claims they kick up a huge fuss, Saying we told you so, we told you so, etc etc.
Another way at looking at it is, Regardless of there predictions
 coming true or not, Religions like the jws actually fulfiel’d what jesus was warning about in mathew 24:4,5.
Anything that apparantly came true is not evident to support the witnesses, Its evident to support what jesus was warning about in the first place.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:40 pm
 
@ apologist. Oh yes, one more thing. You can officially count time on me bc I am an “INACTIVE” publisher not having reported Field Service time for over 6 months.
 Rule number “745b2” in Elders Secret Handbook. Feel free to count time on me.
Reply
 
 
 Jaime says:

 June 14, 2015 at 10:01 pm
 
Qué insensatez y estupidez criticar a un grupo de personas que dirigen una organización religiosa. Hay muchas organizaciones religiosas en el mundo. No se la den de sabios, o sea, el cuerpo gobernante de los testigos de Jehová son unos ignorantes, hay que salvar a los testigos de Jehová de este Grupo de personas, y ¿quién nos va a salvar de las estupiduces y grandilocuencias de ustedes? Pues ustedes están en la misma posición de los que critican. Mandan este mensaje: El cuerpo Gobernante son unos ignorantes, están errados. Nosotros somos los buenos, lo que nosotros estamos diciendo esto sí es verdadero y liberador. ¡Qué estupidez!
What folly and stupidity criticize a group of people who run a religious organization. There are many religious organizations in the world. No den of the wise, that is, the ruling body of Jehovah’s Witnesses are ignorant, we must save the Jehovah’s Witnesses in this group of people, and who will save us the estupiduces and pomposity of you ? Well you are in the same position as those who criticize. Sent this message: The governing body are ignorant, they are wrong. Weare the good ones, what we are saying yes is true and liberating. What a stupid thing!
Reply
 
 
 ES says:

 July 7, 2015 at 7:51 pm
 
Dear John Cedars,
I wanted to write and express my appreciation for the time and work that you put into sharing JW updates along with your views towards the Watchtower. I find your videos and articles very entertaining, and a great source for staying up to date with happenings inside the WT. I have deeply indoctrinated parents, and I like to keep current on the information that’s being pumped into their heads.
Anyways, keep up the great work and thank you again.
Reply
 
 
 Anna Adam says:

 August 23, 2015 at 3:05 pm
 
I have a question that I can’t find the answer to. I’ve search JW. Org
 & watched many of your videos , which are incredible.
 Some of my family won’t speak to me as I left the org. 5 yrs. ago.
 I have not been disfellowshipped because I will not be in a committee meeting. They have not tried to contact me .
 My question is : Can they disfellowship me with out a committee meeting?
 Are there any laws against this?
 Thanks , Anna x
Reply
 
 Starved says:

 September 25, 2015 at 7:45 am
 
Anna,
 Your story has missing pieces. I’m an elder. The elders can hold a judicial committee without your presence. However, they would have had to tell you first that it was happening. Based on what you said this didn’t happen. Next possibility is your conduct/actions were very public, like joining another religious group or the army, and you were disassociated. Either way, announcement is same: “no longer a JW.” Again, without more detail, I couldn’t say what happened. These are only 2 possibilities I know.
Reply
 
 Lisa says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:43 pm
 
Hi Anna, I am sorry to tell you that chances are since you have not been before a commity, and have never talked with a elder, you are looked at as a disassociated one.
 Also try to think back, if a elder came across you at work or any where, and asked you if you wanted to be a Jehovah Whitness. If you had told him no then chances are you were announced as disfellowshipped. No commity would be formed.
Reply
 
 
 
 Lisa says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:38 pm
 
Hi Anna, I am sorry to tell you that chances are since you have not been before a commity, and have never talked with a elder, you are looked at as a disassociated one.
 Also try to think back, if a elder came across you at work or any where, and asked you if you wanted to be a Jehovah Whitness. If you had told him no then chances are you were announced as disfellowshipped. No commity would be formed.
Reply
 
 
 
 joan gibson says:

 October 6, 2015 at 7:31 pm
 
I am one of many that have love for Jehovah and Jesus, but not the strict bias of the brothers. Both my girls were molested by their step father who was a baptised brother in good standing and remained that way even after it was brought to light. Not acceptable
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 October 13, 2015 at 8:49 pm
 
Thats definitely not accseptable, That makes the governing body and the elders directly responsible if it happens a second time, Because they were aware of it.
Reply
 
 
 
 laurent says:

 October 8, 2015 at 1:07 pm
 
bonjour,
Votre site est très riche et intéressant. Pour les francophones il est peu accessible.
Comment puis-je aider mes ex-coreligionnaires ? En quoi puis-je me rendre utile pour diffuser ou participer à la diffusion de l’information ici, en France ?
Laurent, Paris, France
Reply
 
 MK says:

 October 16, 2015 at 3:58 am
 
Bonjour , Laurent je me pose la même question ! on et 2 ! Ce site c’est une mine d’or . Car en france nous sommes bien loin du siège mondial ici personne ne soupçonne tout se qui se trame la bas je me sent tellement impuissant !
Reply
 
 
 
 Jay says:

 October 9, 2015 at 11:16 am
 
I would like to ask for a suggestion. Im currently a JW. Two years ago I moved to a new congregation away from my parent congregation where I have been all my life. It is there that my doubts became greater and I now would prefer to leave the organization. However, I don’t want to lose my family. I would like to fade away. Should I just keep attending my parent congregation while my publisher card is in my new hall? Should I write a letter that I am inactive? What is the best solution? The elders are already calling because I have not reported hours for last two months.
Thanks!
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 13, 2015 at 9:49 pm
 
@ jay. If it was me I would first just say I have been so busy elate, work, job, taking CARE OF FAMILY, SICK, ETC. anything YOU CAN THINK OF to fade away slowly. Then maybe show up at a meeting or 2 once in a while over the next few months. Then stop returning calls or pretebd you are depressed etc. Anything to to get them away from you. Then start making new friends or doing different things.Little by little make your break. After a while they should just leave you alone and stop attending all meetings after a short while. I m sure they will hound you and call you and hopefully you have enough interest in other things to keep you out of the Kingdom hall. I hope your parents don’t hound you all the time. I assume you ar e a full grown adult capable of making your own decisions without their interference. Remember we have religious freedom int his country despite the fact that the WT does not allow it in their religion.
I am not sure how far you can escape from your family without them demanding you go to the Kingdom hall and associate with the JW’s. It is terrible that a person even has to thin of an escape out of the CULT for fear they will lose their family? Only a True Cult will do this.
Reply
 
 
 
 MK says:

 October 16, 2015 at 3:48 am
 
Buenos Dias Jay ,
 Estoy en la misma situacion que tu . Desde que me fui de mi primera congregation tengo muchas dudas . Para empezar no me dejaron en paz para mi casamiento no tuve discurso y me obligaban ha contar toda mi vida personal . Ahora tengo muchos problemas porque tuve dudas y se lo conte a un hermano el no se lo pudo creer y me trato de apostata tuve que rendir cuentas a los ancianos me dijeron que tenia que reanudar con las reuniones y que no tenia que dudar mas porque Jehova esta al mando . Yo no se cuanto tiempo lograre luchar para no perder mi familia . Mi mujer y yo estamos desorientados .
 Mucha suerte a ti jay pero temo que no tenga solution tu problema tendras que salir o seguir .
Good Morning Jay,
 I ‘m in the same situation as you . Since I left my first congregation I have many doubts. For starters they did not let me alone for my wedding I had no speech and has forced me to have all my personal life. Now I have a lot of problems because I had doubts and told a brother, not what might believe and I try to apostate had to be accountable to the elders told me I had to resume the meetings and did not have to hesitate anymore because Jehovah this command. I do not know how long will achieve fight to keep my family. My wife and I are disoriented.
 Good luck to you jay but I fear that your problem has no solution will have to leave or continue
Reply
 
 
 Anthony GZ says:

 October 31, 2015 at 4:26 am
 
Jehovah’s witnesses organization is a messed up religious system. For a religion, It can also turn people into atheist as well, Since people start to wonder, Is this what religion is about ???
People who were raised up in that faith, Or people that’s been attending there meetings are constantly told to make that truth there own.
The problem with that is as soon as you start to do that, And start asking questions, They brand them as being mentally diseased with questions.
At there theocratic schools when teaching people how to knock on doors, They used to say Questions is the key to getting the householder interested in what your saying, But then when them people do start to ask serious questions themselves they get branded mentally diseased with questionings, What they really mean is, Its o.k. to ask the questions outlined in there study books and don’t go beyond that.
Reply
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 November 1, 2015 at 1:09 am
 
“…It can also turn people into atheist as well…”
I would say that is one of the few good things about the WTBTS.
Reply
 
 
 
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