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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost →
 
My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
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Posted on November 4, 2015

Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return

Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.
They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.
This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.
Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.
I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…

I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.
Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.
But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.
Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.
 
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The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.


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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost →
 
255 Responses to My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast


Newer Comments →
 
 alanv says:

 November 4, 2015 at 5:40 am
 
Would be great if my JW son approached me to try to get me to come back, but I know he wouldnt as he is aware that if he says anything to me about it, I will just say the same things as Lloyd would say, and he is afraid of the truth. He likes his JW life and seems ok with living a lie.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:15 pm
 
Just let him live his life the way he wants, If he likes living a lie what’s that to you ?
If its some kind of doctrinal issue that’s directly effecting individuals then speak out.
Otherwise I don’t see why people like you always feel the need to judge others by the way they live
There’s a lot of things about the jws which I don’t agree with, Which are wrong, but that’s not one of them.
That’s just an outright attack, Try approaching the police with them kind of remarks about your son, And they will soon correct your thinking.
Reply
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:07 pm
 
@ Anthony
Did I miss something? You go and berate Alanv. You rudely speak out in public about him and impute motives you have no basis for. Clearly your a JW with a I am better than you complex. The invocation of talking to the police about the matter??? Wow why don’t you try that one yourself, I bet you will look pretty dandy in a straight jacket.
Do yourself a favor and don’t blog the next time you go off your medication. Besides don’t you have some windows or a toilet to clean. Shhhh, did you hear that, I think your mother is calling you to come up from the basement and study your Watchtower.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 5, 2015 at 4:52 am
 
Tiger
You mentioned a number of things there.
Let’s just say I am a JW ( which I am not ) Thankfully, Would that justify all that nasty hate coming from within you ?
Alanv is no more special than anyone else on this planet, We are all equals on this planet, With the same freedom of speech.
Regarding the police, I know exactly what I am talking about on that one, ( Your going to have to take my word on that one without any further explanations )
If you or any of your family came under attack from the JWS themselfs I would come to your assistance straight away as well.
I used to be a JW, But I agree with what Lloyd Evans said, You can drift that far that you don’t recall any good times left when in the JWS, And I also understand why Lloyd cannot be an activist any longer, Lloyd said they are just frightened cult members.
Sorry I am not going to go around hating anyone just to win the approval of people like yourself, Just so you can feel better about yourself ( I think for myself ) And always will.
alanv is in the wrong, Deep down you know that, That’s why you reacted the way you did.
I may not be a JW any longer but my faith in the Almighty himself is a 100 times stronger than when I was with the JWS.
If Jesus or Jehovah themselves wanted to deel with people like you, You would know about it.
Plus i don’t think I am better than anyone else at all, Everyone deserves to be treated as human beings, And yes, That includes the Jehovah’s witnesses as well, No matter what our views towards them are.
Sorry tiger, Not going to make you feel better about yourself on this one.
I was doing him and you a favor just pointing that out.
How you deal with that is up to you.
No need to respond back, Since I really don’t like engaging in these kind of conversations and issues.
There are a lot of people on this site who need help and support, And have had a difficult time when with the JWS. Help them.
Regards.
Reply
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 5, 2015 at 4:16 pm
 
Tiger
I know what you meen, but that’s the reality of life.
By the time people figure certain things out, Its to late, its all over, like Michael Cain said, life is not a reversal.
I am not a people follower.
If you put your trust in religious organizations they will let you down, That’s because they are all made up of fallible people by nature.
I stick to the way I understand things now, That works much better for me, No confusions that way.
Reply
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:56 am
 
I certainly can appreciate your point of view of avoiding the confusion, by avoiding being a people follower. I encourage my family, that if you can’t reason to something then you need to do more investigation because something is missing.
Dogma only stagnates human progress and as you quoted life is not a reversal. I hope you will rethink your comments to Alanv, it is hard to have any family member be a JW and reject you and stay with their lies. I think that is what he is speaking about. It takes time to get over that when it is someone you love dearly. Because when you put as much love and time as you do with your children and they would choose anything, no matter what that would cause them not to be around you at all is very hard to take. I am fortunate my whole family and all of my close friends left shortly after I did and I have all of them in my life.

 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:21 am
 
Tiger
You are right, I don’t really know alanv, Its probably the way I read it, Or the way it came over.
I really don’t like all that rigid inflexible dogma of the witnesses, It just makes them judgemental on others, And they use it as a weapon to try and control people, One minute they talk to you, Then if you say something they personally don’t agree with, They withdrew from you.
I stopped going to the meetings years ago because of all them kind of confusing mind games, It was messing up my head, And what’s even worse, They do that to young ones and teenagers as well, At a time when the they need the parent’s the most, with all the confusions going on in there heads at that young age.
I have had some seriously huge arguments with the witnesses about all that, right in the middle of the meetings, That should say something about me, I always spoke my mind about doctrinal issues, They did not like that, they tried to stop me by using all that withdrawal approach to get me to conform as they say, In return I gave them back twice as much as they gave me, Just for involving me in the first place, Then using that thought reform or control techniques.
They avoid me altogether now which I like.
I also used to tell them the true meenings of some Greek words, like gentile times ( Kairos, greek ) which ( dose not ) imply a definite fixed time as they were teaching in there books to support the GB and there 1914 chronology, But rather just meens a general period of time.
I also pointed out to them that the Greek word for taking in knowledge ( John 17:3 ) Dose not meen that at all, It meens to know someone, Or get to know them on a personal basis. They used to look at me and think, who are you to question the governing body on how they translated the scriptures ? A lot of them stopped talking to me because I questioned that one, And sure enough, they change that Greek word back to ( knowing ) again in there 2013 revised translation.
It is a shame that witnesses stop talking to there family members just because of there interpretations to scriptures.
Its not the teachings of Jesus that caused divisions between father and son, Its the interpretations of the governing body itself which causes the divisions.
Regarding ( alanv ) I really don’t know his personal experiences on things, And how things effected him, Since everyone knows there own background to things and how it has effected them, I ment no harm by it, But I also kept in mind what Lloyd said, A lot of these people are frightened people deep down, And that makes me sensitive to how I treat them now, Or anyone for that matter.
I ment to say life is not a rehearsal, By Michael Cain, But reversal sounds o.k. as well.
Reply
 
 Tiger123 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:53 pm
 
Your response to the witnesses is good and challenging their doctrine. I agree with many things you said. I have trouble understanding how you can feel offended when I challenged you and you felt hurt enough to respond. I challenged you in a very closed minded way making assertions that without evidence to help you see as you admit that you do not know Alanv. You response to him was personal. You quote Loyds comments and agree yet you are not having dialogue with him. You know as well as I do that is a way of garnering his favor when you chose to personally attack another commenter. If you believe what he says then just say it. Quoting him on his website is a cop out. Being a free thinker does not mean that you even have to express your opinion. In general that is called opinionated. The older I get the more I realize how hard it is not to be opinionated.
 As for law enforcemt. Perhaps you are an officer and that is how you feel. That may explain why you approach everything as an authority. My next door neighbor for 8 years was the police chief and I am certain that is not the way he feels.
I do not feel the need to tell others what to do, rather to seek understanding and fairness. Your statemts to Alanv were not seeking to help him, you berated him. He did not deserve
 It.
I see that you are disinclined to admit your fault in the matter. I will admit what I did was dogmatic and unfair. I hoped you would respond the way you did so you could see how it feels. No matter you have the right to your own opinion and I have the right to disagree.
Final thought. Most people like and associate with people that agree with their views. I try hard not to be that way, when someone challenged my view I try to think about
 What they are saying and then why they may view things that way and where did I gets viewpoint. I find that by doing that life is far more interesting. Even though we disagree does not bring any animosity on my part.
Best wishes

 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:04 pm
 
Tiger123
I allreay sent an apology to ( alanv )
Being a free thinker dose not meen a person is free from feelings or that they don’t make mistakes.
It just meens I think things through first, I don’t accept any religious dogma from anyone unless it can be 100% substantiated, Which I know no one can do.
I do approach things in a methodical way as you say, Free thinkers do that, The only things I go for 100% is the things that make 100% sence to begin with, Otherwise I would not be a true free thinker, If you think about it.
Don’t read into things to much, All I went by to begin with was that comment that alanv posted, I think most people may have thought he was being a bit to hard on his son, Since that comment was all they had to go by.
I was not making accusations or judging, I was just thinking about his son, Is that so bad ???
Reply
 
 
 
 mackgg says:

 November 5, 2015 at 6:34 am
 
Anthony, you are a lemming. You are told how to be. How to think. And who you can and cant associate with. Keep following :)
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:12 am
 
Mack
I am one of the most true ( Free Thinkers ) you will ever come across in life, You just don’t know it, But if only you did.
And i don’t follow anyone’s religious systems, With man made origins.
I also don’t follow former witnesses either who are filled with rage against other human beings, Who are caught up in systems.
If the witnesses are truely wrong about them being gods spokesmen, ((( Which I know they are wrong about anyway ))) Then you should be helping them, Not attacking them.
A lot of them witnesses are just following the GB, They don’t know any better, You lot with them past experiences should know better.
Instead of helping, your attacking.
I don’t follow any religious system, And I don’t follow people who have serious issues with them either.
I think for my self, Always will, And thats how i like it, And I think you know that.
Reply
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:44 pm
 
“I am one of the most true (free thinkers) you will ever come across in life, You just don’t know it. But if only you did”
Reminds me of what I told Kate Upton, I am one of the best looking people you will ever come across in life, you just don’t know it. But if only you did. Still waiting for her to give me a call when she figures it out. Lol

 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:01 pm
 
Mackgg
I typed in ( lemming pictures ) on the internet today, And a huge image of a rodent came up.
( Thought that was really funny )
Thanks for that.
I’m the rodent that broke free, who the GB are begging to come home.
They have given up on me now, You have to see the funny side to life, because when I was there, all I did was
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:05 pm
 
When I was there all I did was sleep. Forgot to add sleep.

 
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm
 
@ Anthony
Now that was a funny comment, loved it! I guess I am a rodent to. lol

 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:01 pm
 
Thought you would find that funny.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:33 pm
 
alanv
Since your son don’t approach you in the first place, I thought that itself should be great, But no, You need him to approach you as well just so you can tell him were to go.
I really don’t understand that kind of thinking mentality in people.
Reply
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:39 pm
 
alanv
Sorry, But not going to make attacks on people just for the fun of making attacks.
That’s criminal behavior type thinking.
Reply
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:02 pm
 
alanv
As you said, Your son is already aware of how you would react.
If I had a parent that was talking bad about me, Especially on national website, I would be ashamed of him.
Not defending the jws system itself, But you should know when something is right or wrong, And be able to make that distinction.
Maybe your the reason he’s a JW to begin with ?
Reply
 
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:18 am
 
@Alanv
I was responding to Anthony and I stopped my comment short because I really wanted to direct the rest of what I had to say to you.
First off, I am sorry that you have a strained or even broken family relationship due to Watchtower. I will tell you the piece of the puzzle that helped me get my 3 closest friends (servants and Elders as well as their families out) as well as my Father, Sister and lastly my Mother. I cannot guarantee it will work, but if you have not tried it, it could be worth a try.
There was a special done by Lisa Ling about North Korea. In the special there was an eye doctor who risked his life to go to North Korea to help people who needed surgery regain their sight. During their time there they visited families who had pictures of the former leader Kim Jung Il on their walls. They looked at those pictures with the reverence of a God. Almost all of the people the video to, quickly commented how ridiculous that was and could not help but wonder how could intelligent people fall victim to such a terrible regime?
By the end of the show the doctor had many of the patients come to what looks like a church with photos of, as they called him “Dear Leader” on the walls of the center. Simultaneously they were all asked to remove their bandages from the surgery and they could see. They were delighted! With the doctor standing there, they never even stopped to thank him, instead they fell down and cried and thanked the “Dear Leader” and began bowing to photos of Kim Jung, the man who in fact opposed the operations.
At the end I asked a couple of simple questions because the piece of journalism is so compelling. Once you see it you will not likely forget it. I asked, how do you think something like that could ever happen to a human being, that they would thank someone who did nothing for them, but who is willing to take the credit? Do you wonder if you live over there would you be able to see through this evil man who makes the country live in poverty as he lives like a king? Last questions and the most critical while the show is fresh on their mind. If I were over there and you knew I had been brainwashed what would you do? Would you leave me there? Would you help me get out? If so, how?
I let it sink in a little and then showed them the truth about the GB and WT. I started off simple sharing all of the bad mouth things WT and
 Rutherford especially, said against the medical community. He put tens of thousands of people at risk because of his arrogance. (sound familiar) I then showed all of the lies and cover ups making sure to provide clear evidence for every thing. They all had trouble accepting it at first, however not one of them stayed, they all began to do their own research and left. I can tell you it wasn’t easy for any of us. However we are all without a doubt much happier now.
Best wishes to you and your family. I hope this may help in some way.
Reply
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:40 pm
 
To alanv
I do apologize about any comments I made which may have been upsetting , I was not aware of the background details of you and your son/family, And how it was effecting you.
I just thought you was having a go at your son for no reason, Apologies for that.
( If I can make a suggestion ? )
Next time you see your son, Or if you invite him over, ( Never ) talk to him about the jws or say anything negative about them, Talk about other things instead.
No matter what may have happened, He will never forget your the dad, He will always remember the good times.
If you talk about the witnesses or say anything negative about them, Then they keep out the way and avoid you, They are scared to loose there faith, But they don’t want to loose you either.
Whether they are trapped in the religion or whether they choose to be there ? One thing I am pretty sure about is, Deep down the love you.
I have a book here, Its called ( The way of **** it )
On one of the pages it says, ( **** it, separation is just an illusion )
Try and look upon it like that.
How you handle the situation is more important than the situation itself if you understand what I meen.
Its easy to get along with them, The trick is, Never talk about the religion with them or try and pull them away from it, Because the more you try, The further your pushing them in it.
Keep things friendly and simple with them, Without talking about religion, And if he should bring it up, Then casually and friendly, Change the subject.
A lot of witnesses loose interest in it as time gose by anyway.
But in the meantime its possible to get along with them as normal as long ad you avoid the subject.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:39 pm
 
@Anthony, Geez, I hate to disagree with you but I don’t think you could be further from the truth to alanv.
My family won’t touch religion with me with a ten foot pole. Every time I try and say anything to them, they close up shop as quickly as possible. They can be around me as long as I don’t talk anything about religion. If Alanv’s family wants to talk religion, that is a good thing, I believe.
That is the only way, he will be able to help them escape the JW religion, is if he is able to talk to them about the religion.
If they don’t want to talk about it, they will end the conversation quickly if his family is anything like mine and most JW families.
He can start with something like 607 which is easily proved to be wrong. If the Society is lying about 607 that is huge and might be the one little crack that opens up the valley of deceit for them to discover.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:25 pm
 
Caroline
Your cracking me up, Just joking.
It dipends on the situation to begin with, Its not as if he has lost his son alltogether, Its about resolving the situation for now so they can get along.
Theres a lot witnesses who probably know the 607 date is wrong anyway, But still choose to stay there for other reasons, Not sure if that would be enough to pull him away from it ?
I have already explained to my witness brother why the 607 date is all wrong, Given him proof after proof, But he is still there.
Reply
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:28 pm
 
Caroline
Forgot to mention.
If you read (alanv) initial comment above, about his son, alanv already said how he would react if his son approached him.
That’s what I was going by, to begin with.
I just was not aware that there was a backround issue going on.
Whether talking about it with his son or not ? I really don’t know, Everyone is different.
Reply
 
 
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 8, 2015 at 11:00 pm
 
@ Anthony
Well done. Nice comment.
A question to anyone who knows the answer. When you comment, does it sometimes show up out of order? It seems that I write comments every so often, I come back to the website and there are comments ahead of mine that I wished were there when I commented. I would have said something different or at least acknowledged someones good comments or intentions. If I am doing something wrong please let me know.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:31 am
 
Tiger
I was not sure if I was going to post anymore comments ?
Sometimes just talking about the jws makes me feel like I am talking to them, Which I stopped doing a long time ago.
Tiger, Even though you told me to go clean the toilets, Which I thought was funny since I already cleaned them, I have to say you are a good man deep down, Or woman, Since you can get female tigers as well.
That is the problem when reading comments or messages, They can easily be taken out of context by not knowing all that went on before the comments were made.
But anyway, I was reading a comment from susan, She was saying how anoid she was with a situation that arose with Anne the daughter, and the mother.
Anne stopped talking to the mother, and reminded the mother, That it was the mother herself that cut herself of from the family by the mothers own apparent wrongdoing.
Susan called all that shunning business from the watchtower garbage, which I agreed with her about.
You know what really irritates and annoys me, There are families out there that don’t go looking for any religion or organized religion to begin with, They have 1 or 2 bad moments in life, They then stumbled across the JWs, The JWs talk or influence them to get involved with the witnesses, Then when they do get involved and get baptized, If they do anything wrong or question things to much they get shunned, like Anne did to the mother.
I also don’t like all that JW influence only going one way, They use there freedom of speach to give a one sided narrow minded view on things without listening to others, Then calling them mentally diseased for asking what they think is to many questions.
I remember years ago they used to say ( questions ) is the main tool to use to get people interested in what your saying, Then when these people do get involved, And start asking more questions themselves, They get branded mentally diseased.
Also the GB themselves are masters of reading and misquoting scriptures out of context, Then they brand there members for doing exactly what they themselves do.
Asking questions is always a good thing, Its in the nature of human beings to do that, Being a sheep dose not meen being stupid, Otherwise why did Jesus warn people to be aware of claims that people make ???
If they are trying to stop you from doing that, Then them are the people Jesus was warning about.
They also involve and influence people to become part of there organization just so they can shun them if they question anything that’s not in line with ( Organizational teachings )
They quot scriptures like if anyone dose not listen to what we say, ( Note, Or mark that person ) While at the same time the scriptures also keep warning people to constantly examine the scriptures as to whether people are still in the truth so to speak.
Organizations and religions keep on changing, What a person first got baptized into may become unrecognizable in just a matter of a few years, Did these people get babtized into an organization to the point were they cannot question things any longer ? Were they get branded mentally diseased for doing so ? I don’t think so.
People should ( Always questions ) If what they first got involved in, Is the same as what it is now.
Nobody is under any obligation to remain faithful to an unthinking organization, Which the Almighty himself had not even claimed.
Since a persons ( Whole life ) is tied in with there beliefs, Then that person should ( Always ) question them beliefs, Them beliefs should ( Always ) be open to question, ( Especially ) When you get people like Anne kindly reminding her mother, That it was the mother who cut herself of from the family.
Them are not scritural teachings, They are man made organizational teachings which go way above and beyond the scriptures themselves.
The GB say we don’t go beyond the things written ? My answer to that is ? Why are they even referring to the things written if Jesus has come back ? And to say we don’t go beyond the things written implies that’s exactly what they have been doing for years.
( Tiger ) you know what I really find funny ??? All these kind of comments on this and other websites, The GB are reading all these comments, They make a few little changes here and there as a result, Then the sheep say how lucky we are to be blessed with such a governing body, Who are getting all these flashes of light from jehovah.
To you ( Anne ) out there somewhere, I hope you get to read this.
I am ashamed of you for doing that to your mother, especially when she came looking for you, I am ashamed of the watchtower organization for encouraging that, And thinking that is normal, And I am ashamed of all you Jehovah’s witnesses who go along with all that garbage as susan calls it, And thinking its normal.
Tiger.
I will always be a free thinker.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 3:56 am
 
Anthony, I hope you don’t stop commenting here. I could not agree more with your comment!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do it.

 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:25 am
 
Caroline
Thanks .

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 4, 2015 at 5:43 am
 
This is a subtle way of making a “theocratic war” against… “Apostates”!! Imagine the following you can read in Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Publications…
*** w53 11/1 p. 655 Examining Islamic Teachings ***
 ISLAM’S “JIHADS”
One of the more striking contradictions found in the Quran concerns itself with freedom of worship. On the one hand there are a number of expressions favoring religious liberty, such as, “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” And on the other hand, time and again expressions appear that indicate the direct opposite: “When the sacred months are passed, kill those that join other gods to God wherever ye find them; and seize them, besiege them, lie in wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way for God is gracious.” And again: “Fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: Kill them wherever you find them. . . . Fight therefore until there be no more civil discord, and until the only worship be that of God,” or “until the temptation stops.”—Sura 2:186-190, 212, 213; 8:12; 9:5, 124, Rodwell.
 Modern Muslims claim that the Quran teaches freedom of religion and advocates only defensive warfare, but can such expressions as “kill those that join other gods to God wherever you find them,” “but if they convert . . . let them go their way,” and “kill them . . . until the temptation stops” be construed as either defensive warfare or permitting freedom of religion? The very Arabic word jihad disproves such a contention, for it means, “A religious war against infidels or Mohammedan heretics.” (Webster) Many, many Muslims were slain by other Muslims because of religious differences. Certainly that does not spell out freedom of religion.
Reply
 
 agatha says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:44 pm
 
la WACHTOWER INC. tiene temor porque cada ves son mas los inactivos jaja ya no pueden contra la supuesta APOSTASIA se cae a pedazos su mascara de hierro y nadie los atacara jamas son nuestros seres queridos solo respetuosamente nos dan la oportunidad de hablar con nuestros familiares y quiza lograr despertarlos
 doble riesgo para ellos pues el amor siempre es mas fuerte que cualquier mentira
 tranquilidad claridad tolerancia firmeza compasion y por sobre todo amor para nuestros seres amados una gran oportunidad de calmarlos para que bajen de la pelicula de ciencia ficcion que les estan haciendo vivir
Reply
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:56 am
 
This is the same campaign the Catholic church had not too long ago. The “come home” theme is definitely meant to illicit an emotional response. I haven’t watched it but I’m sure that my feelings towards the briadcast will be the same.
I just wanted to punch Gerrit Losch in the nose. All i could hear from him is his hypocritical response to the courts that would not be accepted in ANY kingdom Hall were it used by your average publisher. These men have no credibility. The idea that God is using this organization is laughable.
Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:21 am
 
Watchtower is still labeling people as “inactive” ones. This is just like the Pharisees in Jesus day labeling the common people. When is the organization going to start counting the zeros every month for the inactive ones. So, that the publishers get to see what the “real” truth is about. The survival of the fittest, or the “race for life”, is the reason why there is such a conflict. Telling the publishers when they go through life’s traumatic changes in their life and albeit God dishonoring practices as “that’s your problem, that’s not our problem” a statement by a prestigious elder just shows that Jesus Christ’s life has no effect on the religion. In addition, the elders playing rank over the publishers is not showing the qualities of Jesus but rather the spirit of Satan the Devil. These streaming videos and printed material is so impersonal and does not represent Jesus Christ way of handling matters.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:55 am
 
Agreed! Would Jesus ‘lovingly’ shun people that he saw in need or danger?
Reply
 
 
 
 Oubliette says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:38 am
 
Lloyd,
Nice assessment and analysis: short, sweet and to the point!
Reply
 
 
 Mary says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:46 am
 
I did a thread on JWD about 7 or 8 years ago under the Comments You Will Not Hear at the WT Study so this is the same old same old.
What is so irritating is that in both the WT study articles and their videos is that it’s never the fault of the Organization when someone leaves. It’s always the individual who is to blame. Either they ‘let themselves be stumbled’ or they no longer wanted to go out in Serve-Us, or they’re too full of themselves, etc. etc. They NEVER ever will acknowledge that anyone has a legitimate reason for leaving, no matter what the facts show.
My family has more or less, left me alone on the subject. They know I think the religion’s a crock so they don’t ask me questions anymore, simply because they realize I know more about it than what they do. And that is always a huge threat to any cult.
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:16 am
 
“Serve-us”….hahahahhaa…I love stuff like that.
Pio-sneer
 BORGinization
 Eldress
 Circus Overseer
…..
Reply
 
 
 
 i sawthelight says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:49 am
 
Come home? Come home to what? They are the ones that should come home.I have had enough of this sorry crap from a group of brain washed old bent over men claiming to rep God.I left this nonsense after 32 years of my life in a lie. Now they want me to come home? This is another brainwashing campaign by a group of dead men walking around.I say to them sell all the stock you have invested all over the world and sell all those kingdom halls and all the property you own and give the proceeds back to the flock where it came from. Give them all that money then apologize to the world for being such a lie and manuplitator .Beg them your forgiveness and go get a job like any other human being. Then I will say that indeed that the watchtower has came home.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 4, 2015 at 12:13 pm
 
Hear hear! Ive always thought this org needs breaking with kindness give ALL the money back to whom it is owing and then they wont owe a single thing except love.Hmmmmm can’t see that happening in a thousand years. ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 agatha says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:47 pm
 
perfecto pedido!!! adhiero completamente
Reply
 
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:57 am
 
Iv noticed over the months how…. well….. portly Mark Sanderson is getting…its laughable that he is a couple of years younger than me and Im expected to believe God is using this slightly overweight man..(ahem he had better be careful according to jw guidlines)to guide my life and make my life decisions for me…all the governing body look like they have forgotten how to do a days work…I was talking to an elders wife a few days ago and she said the broadcasts have really shaken her faith in the organisation… she finds the governing body totally unlovable…that may be why they are having more broadcasts done by the helpers in the future!…I think the broadcasts are the begining of a long slow death for the organisation…Im so happy my head is free!
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:58 am
 
This is obviously showing that they need something out of the people that have drifted or faded away. What is it? Their MONEY!
Reply
 
 ForestDaughter says:

 November 4, 2015 at 1:20 pm
 
Yes, especially as anyone out of the organisation is more likely to be better off financially, in higher paid work and having taken some further education to better themselves. Also, the GB are wanting our energy I should think. Many inside the org are getting exhausted and dispirited, and there isn’t much in the way of new blood through field service here in the west. The need fresh victims, lol.
Reply
 
 
 
 Michael Gates says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:05 am
 
Could it be that the GB leaders have some statistics from the field as to how many are no longer associated, and thought how much revenue that would bring back to the coffers if they did “come home” and bring their wallets?
Just wondering…
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:09 am
 
Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, ” Dear friend what can I do,
 To prove the warm affection I ‘ve always felt for you?
 I have within my pantry, good store of all that’s nice;
 I’m sure you’re very welcome — will you please to take a slice?”
 “Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “kind Sir, that cannot be,
 I’ve heard what’s in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!”
Reply
 
 
 Michael Gates says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
One other point as to the broadcasts of late. If you can remember back in the 80s – 90s of the GB which included the likes of Jaracz, Klein, Schroeder, Booth, Gangas, Barry, Barr, Henschel, Sydlik et.al these men were basically in the background. We barely knew who the GB was and most rank and file would hardly recognize them.
Now why is it all of a sudden different? The GB of today are rock stars? Could it be that the new group are mostly former COs and DOs, “who like the front place in the synagogs” and the adoration of men. They were always in the front and center, and commanded everyones attention everywhere they went. They loved it that way, and had enjoyed the creature worship. This happens to many Pastors in mega-churches in the US.
Now behind their desks in New York, they miss that attention. Much as JR Brown (former DO, now PR Man) when he first went to bethel in 1978. He had become so popular and famous as a DO and speaker, it was thought the GB brought him to bethel to stop the creature worship. He seemed to have languished there for all of that time.
Well now the GB has an outlet to be seen, JW Broadcasting. This time though, not only by their circuits, but the whole world of JWs.
Interesting to see how this venue for creature worship will play out…someone pass the popcorn.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:30 am
 
The elders wife said much the same to me…I was in shock that she said it…she felt like it was the same as any American evangelical sect…she was really disturbed…I didnt give much away because Iv learned to be careful…but I did say to her that if she feels this way she cant be the only one….I truly felt for her…she just kept saying it was a good job she loved Jehovah…That will go soon…Iv been there…you feel lost.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:12 am
 
We stopped our study with the JW’s in the spring of 2010. This new projection of the GB members, into the magazines and now as televangelists, is a striking development to an outside observer.
When the GB declared themselves to be the “faithful and discreet slave,” this must have justified their motivation to start showing their faces more prominently. They are finally getting the adoration and recognition that they deserve. They have set themselves up on thrones, for all the worldwide web to see.
Reply
 
 
 
 David says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:33 am
 
We are almost 2016, this alone tells that they have taught lies for more than a century. Everybody makes mistakes but you cannot be wrong for so long. Instead of asking people to comeback to the org the governing body should act as normal people. They should realise that a person is not evil if does not agree with their flawed viewpoints.
 Now their growth is close to 0 and their moving mountains to adjust the stats.
Reply
 
 
 Pj wilcox says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:34 am
 
I am envious of your kindness. Sir, you do a great service. You have helped me get over the rage and anger in me by bringing a readonsonable discourse to the table.
 Please keep up the good work. I will be always listening to what you say
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:43 am
 
I tried to watch it but his sickly sweet pleading just made me annoyed. I’ll wait for Lloyd to do his bit on it and then watch.
Reply
 
 Catalina says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:07 pm
 
Tara, Me to.
Reply
 
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:54 am
 
Sanderson appears to be a latent homosexual (not that there is anything wrong with that). I don’t think he is married. I could just imagine all the hot pioneer babes that would want him and have probably thrown themselves at him. So I would conclude he is gay. I love him in his Mexican wedding shirt. Just wonder how he got that position. For that mathere any of the GB. None of them appear to be very bright.
Reply
 
 
 Arlis Scott says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:57 am
 
I haven’t seen the broadcast, and probably won’t. Waiting to see if my family will send me an invitation. Don’t think that they will though. I would see it as an opportunity to open up some way of them starting to use their own reasoning power! I’ve heard of more people leaving now, and that’s a great sign. You can fool the people some time, but you can’t do it all the time. Sooner or later the governing body will make such a fool out of themselves that it will be their undoing. Great response Lloyd Evans.
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:00 am
 
In my opinion the JW religion is nothing but a corporation – I dont agree with so many things with regards to this religion. Why would they want me back? I would be a fly in their ointment.
Is it for Money? Counting Numbers?
Can they be so oblivious to the fact that so many have left because they can no longer tolerate the fact that this religion is really about money, cover ups, ever changing doctrines, rules rules rules not found in the Bible and mainly about ensuring that their reputation goes untarnished.
The internet is exposing the witness religion for what it truly is and it appears to me that it aint gonna stop.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:16 am
 
I don’t think it really is a publishing company like so many people say here. But yet it is a corporation. They don’t charge for their literature here in the USA. They rely on donations. Judging by the GB ill fit ting suits and lovely silver shoes it doesn’t appear that the GB is benefitting from large amounts of cash. Yes they do appear to be living off the fat of the land judging by their belly sizes. They do fly around and act like rock stars but I don’t think any of them have big bank accounts filled with money from the society. They really don’t need it. I do see some of them as hypocrites building Wallkill to ensure a comfortable future for themselves then telling people not to get an education. Lucky for me I went to school and have a nice profession making decent coin.
Reply
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:57 am
 
Markie: Have you seen this video of Geoffrey Jackson, where he appears to be wearing a gold Apple Watch?https://youtu.be/gBE_oof1RzE
If you are uninterested in listening to his testimony to the Australian Royal Commission, you can skip ahead in the video to get a better view of the watch, beginning at 55:45 in the video.
The price for a gold Apple Watch in the US, starts at $10,000. There are more comments about this watch at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/440110001/geoffrey-jacksons-golden-apple-watch-investigated
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:53 am
 
You can’t really tell what kind of watch that is. People are seeing what they want to see. Their suits are all very cheap looking. None of them fit like they are a canvased suit. They look like cheap fused suits.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Matt says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:12 am
 
“the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true.”
That’s the key to the whole thing! If it was true then I would still be in and trying to reconcile all the extra strangeness.
It’s simply not true and that makes all the misery that it’s doctrine causes all the more intolerable.
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:39 am
 
Well put…
Reply
 
 
 
 Velvia Blue says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:15 am
 
If only our relatives who haven’t yet woken up could just take the bible at face value. Its teaching is the salvation comes through faith in the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet the teaching of the watchtower is that salvation is only possible through an unquestioning allegiance to the W/T corporation.
Reply
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:39 am
 
Yes! If only… and that is almost exactly how I put it to my mom a few weeks ago:
“I’m still hoping that you and Dad are going to wake up one day, and realize that this was all a mistake. Your family will be here, and we love you unconditionally.”
Reply
 
 
 Caltanzee says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:29 am
 
Velvia blue: you summed it all up in a nutshell ! It was all about being in alliance and under the subjection of men, rather than under subjection to God and Christ. Now these power hungry tyrants realize that vast numbers are waking up and freeing themselves from years of enslavement, they have gone into panic mode. Using Guilt tripping tricks to entice the freed captives to come back to slavery…who in their rights senses would ever want to do that? Nooh!! Watchtower ! Enough is enough ! We have had more than enough with you.. Ya done !! We are through..My fifty years is more than I should have given you..Not another nickel, not another dime.And certainly!!! Not a second of reporting time.
Reply
 
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:30 am
 
I agree with previous comments: The GB has placed themselves in the spotlight. This will prove itself to be a big mistake for themselves and their corporation.
Cedars: I love the reply that you composed! It was compassionate and honest… something a JW will not get from their brothers in the congregation.
I’m grateful for the work you do here. I feel like I’m informed and up-to-date on enough of the developments in the WT organization, without having to subject myself to their relentless propaganda.
Again, I am so glad I got away from these deceivers, before they made any claims on me or my children!
… although I will always welcome their doorstop visits, and I will definitely use some of your words when they do come for a return visit. :)
Reply
 
 
 DavidR says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:33 am
 
“The question isn’t why you have become inactive…” Yes, yes it is. That is the most important question. And although you try and ignore it and attribute it to being blinded by Satan or an arrogant and prideful spirit, you continue to allow your members to go on being held captive to an organization that they no longer believe in purely because they don’t want to be shunned. And you continue to enact policies that help to shelter child molesters. Also, you use women to do the lion’s share of your preaching work but will not allow them to hold positions of responsibility.
So yes Mark, it DOES MATTER WHY!
Reply
 
 
 John Baptist says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
I guess the internet has really begun to take it’s toll on this religion to the point that they can only appeal to the emotional side of people anymore. The facts are in and there’s no disputing they are a false religion with false prophecies.
 1 component of a cult religion is to recruit or in this case re-recruit members on a emotional level.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:54 pm
 
Any organization that has to rely on membership for financial support must have a growing membership in order for the greater organization to grow. The WTS organization is in plateau or (hopefully) in decline now, because of the internet and education. Thus, the reason for the plea to disassociated and faded members. It has no other resource than the accumulated wealth (i.e. real estate and stock holdings) to draw upon for sustenance.
Poor little Mark, when he gets older, his organization will be only a shadow of the former empire of Sir Judge Rutherford.
Reply
 
 
 agatha says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:13 pm
 
asi es nuestras emociones nos conectan directamente con el miedo a la muerte
“el miedo es un lazo” :-)
las emociones ya no son mi vista creo todos los seres que salimos de este gran enriedo tenemos bien claro cual es la señal de no avanzar: y es cuando el estomago se transforma en un nudo y el corazon se arruga de dolor e impotencia ufff 35 años de ulceras ansioliticos antidepresivos antiparanoides y no se cuantas enfermedades mas que hoy por hoy no existen en mi ni remotamente la LIBERTAD no tiene PRECIO $$$$$$ WACHTOWERRRR INC.!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 fader~Blues says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
Thanx for all the comments this am,just what I needed to hear…I started “fadeing” years ago when most of my family (made excuses) for not coming to my sons wedding,he had been d f for smoking,and unfortunately babtised young.its one thing for a person to deal with the shunning of oneself or of a mate,but completely another to watch your kids,kids get snob~Ed when the cousins used to be best of friends.so I find myself taking delight in the thought of the bursting of their bubble…the inevitable J~w. Self implosion on the horizon! Lloyde…did u ever imagine what u started would come to this??Thanx
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:52 am
 
Just a side comment about the org. “Not charging for their publications “, that was not at the direction of the Holy Spirit as has been inferred, it was the fact that they would lose their tax free status as a non profit corporation. I believe it was in connection with the Baker/Swaggat fallout. ..where the watchtower actually filled “friends of the court briefs”, hoping to sway the justices to rule in favor of those “T.V. Evangelist”
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
Very well aware of that. But truth of the matter is they don’t charge and rely on donations from a bunch of poor people. I know how much is contributed in my congregation and it really is not that much. Maybe that is why they are asking for money.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:00 pm
 
You’re correct. This org has painted itself in a corner by limiting the potential of so many people that could have had a chance in this world. Even to this day, the GB frowns on higher education and individual achievement. Now, the WTS has to reap what they have sown. Good enough for ’em! The GB gets what they deserve, a declining accounts receivable.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Kat says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:58 am
 
This is NOT pro-Catholic but the Catholics have had the same campaign for a long time, return home to the Catholic church. To me it seems the JWs have been pulling from other religious organizations ideas that seem to be working, Return to Catholic church, Family Night ( LDS),VeggieTales/ non-denom Christian church ( Caleb and Sophia cartoons)and a symbol to bow to or worship( The Blue Square).
Reply
 
 Caltanzee says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:47 am
 
Their are following the a same modus operandi as the mainstream churches. For instance in the menio park congregation trial.watchtower made a statement via their attorney Calvin rouse: That we just like the Catholic church, an hierarchy..That should speak volumes to any present jw.That disputes it’s claim to be different. It’s is actually the same as the others it criticizes..So that’s another reason not to go back to the GB’S. OF SCAMMERS and LIARS.
Reply
 
 
 
 Mama Joy says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:01 am
 
Coming back to Jehovah God means coming back to their publishing company/ religion???!!!!!
Reply
 
 
 Anonymous says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:14 am
 
Well put Lloyd. Very dignified. And hopefully will nudge someone toward intellectual honesty.
 Looking forward to your book!
“Anne”
(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010359243959)
Reply
 
 
 George says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:21 am
 
Not your best article John. If your suggested reply goes as far as to say you would not return because it simply isn’t true, then why not also tell them it’s also because of the very real harm and suffering many of the organizations teachings cause, eg, the death causing blood transfusions policy, etc. And because you see too much rotten fruitage and a lack of real love. And because you feel the org is more like an abusive, threatening parent rather than a loving, kind parent. Trying to confine a response to just saying you don’t go back simply because it isn’t true is a gross simplification and reduction of the whole issue to nothing but an intellectual issue when there are so many other important reasons that must be bravely stated for the sake of the victims. In other words, the moral reasons for not returning are equally, and probably more, of a reason not to return than the intellectual reasons.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:55 am
 
You want me back in?
 Here are my terms
 1) Eliminate the two witness rule in cases of abuse
2) Eliminate shunning as there isn’t a man alive who can read hearts and minds like the Christ, therefore none but he can judge. Mathew 25
3) Stop discouraging our youth from attending universities. Please see the testimonies of your buddies at the Australian Royal Commision for reasons why this is of upmost urgency in your organization.
4) Eliminate all attempts to predict the future. This is how God himself through his word points his finger at you and screams “false prophets!” Deutoronomy 18:18-22, Proverbs 30:5,6, Revelation 22:18-23
5) Stop calling yourselves the annointed class, its just gas. You yourselves say that all scripture is inspired, stop nit picking at the verses in the book of Revelations to fabricate some elite status amongst Christ followers.
6) The original sin was not a lie, but a murmuring for defamations sake against Gods reputation. This eliminates 99.9% of your elders wives, time to act on that cause of stumbling and clean house of all murmurers and defamers by making them apologize to the congregation from the stage.
7) Encourage the friends to preach as much as they can without the pyramid scheme of merit badges for outstanding hours. The titles pioneer and publisher are not biblical teachings. Gods word says that my left hand shouldn’t notice what my right is doing, in other words, how much I preach is none of your bussiness and strictly between me and my God and his son.
8) Stop attacking men for growing their God created and alloted facial hair while allowing the painting of the natural hair, the changing of natural eye color, the use of wigs in worship. Please see http://www.google.com for definition of the biblically used word -Hypocrites
9) Eliminate the stupid suit and tie requirements. Modest dress absolutely, but my weekly worship of my God shouldn’t be treated as a G8 summit. I am positive my loving God will not strike me down for wearing Dockers and a cardigan.
10) Get rid of all bigots in leadership positions. Every congregation should have an annual vote of who they want to pastor them. Your only requirement now is who puts in, or claims to put in the hours in field service. Develop a written test of 1000 questions completely based on scripture that your elder candidates who must have been baptized at least 15 tears must answer in one sitting without their Bibles or electronic devices. Your current elder lineup is an embarrassment to the entire evangelical world. I just had one of your Bethel elite elders explain to me through one of your Awake magazines how it is the Faithful Slave had God reveal to them that animals also have DNA in their bodies along with most sea creatures. (and you want me to come back to these geniuses?)
11) Make apologizing and recovering all of Gods sheep tossed into the world by shunning a requirement for keeping current elders. This must be done by the antichrist committee that tossed them.
12) We are never going away, we will be fact checking everything you say and print until the end of the Watchtower. Our methods of exposing the antichrist watchtower society will only increase exponentially in the future. Time for change is running out.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:02 am
 
13) blood transfusions- Life is a precious gift from God, with a promise for more some day, we must show him how badly we want to keep it. Commiting honorable suicide by refusing treatment is not a way of showing an appreciation for said gift.
 Revelation 22:18-22 Stop twisting Gods words, no one here wants to drink a blood smoothie, only preserve life when absolutely needed.
Reply
 
 rob says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:07 am
 
Robert 67 – you pretty much nailed it.
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:51 am
 
May I add……stop punishing individuals who speck the truth, even if it’s not “current ” official doctrine. And, let’s report our history candidly not revising to give the best impression, if it makes us look bad ….so be it, What ancient prophet was worried about making the king/nation look good?
 It’s time to unravel the lies.
Reply
 
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:13 pm
 
Whew!!! Don’t hold your breath! You’ll suffocate!
These are valid points to straiten the crooked ways of this organization. Unfortunately, the GB couldn’t do a do many of these changes for the better, even if they wanted to. Why? The avalanche of lawsuits that would follow them.
However, if this is God’s one and true religion, then what do they have to fear for doing the right thing in the first place? That’s because the WTS isn’t God’s organization!
Reply
 
 
 
 Thad says:

 November 4, 2015 at 11:26 am
 
I thought this was interesting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVXZsFVlM9g
Terrible customer care by the WT
Reply
 
 
 k. Ives says:

 November 4, 2015 at 12:31 pm
 
Money ? Look at the latest letter to all B.O.E. pic.twitter.com/uYmAUWXyjt
Reply
 
 C.O.B.E. says:

 November 4, 2015 at 1:02 pm
 
Latest letter to Body of Elders about service meeting part on December 21st about giving money .
Follow this link
https://twitter.com/ThatTennantGuy/status/660830080470511616/photo/1
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm
 
You are inspired Rob 67 i could not agree more . the only other thing that should be mandated is every Jehovah’s Christian Witness must read the entire Bible before they go out in a ministry .Must be baptised in the name of The Father,The son,and the Holy Spirit no other words clauses phrases lies and alliances to an org.And finally use God’s word ONLY in said ministry and all their meetings It would make interesting reading and phenominal spiritual growth. Ah but I hear you say that would be too simple , too near the Truth of the matter and may expose all the daft prophecies and interpretations as the erronious load of nonsense that it is. But if those stars don’t want crushing in the hand of the Almighty better get a wiggle on and start using the Bible and nothing else.Then you will see happy sheep come back in their droves with new ones too but the onus is on the gb to stick to the Bible alone not their drivel and spew. Bet ya they could never do it because it would take humility and honesty something that this org is not built on and would detract from their own pontificating. Oh well for a brief moment i had a dream. Now i woke up! ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 4, 2015 at 12:45 pm
 
Since they love to use this scripture on anyone returning to “Christendom,” I’d say let’s apply it to them in their invitation to “come home”:
2 pet 2:22 – but it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
To return to the mind control, the fear-based programming and the unquestioning acceptance of any and all “new light” would be like eating vomit!
Reply
 
 
 mary ruth says:

 November 4, 2015 at 1:11 pm
 
My husband and I stopped going to meetings 4 months ago but just recently we are getting cards, phone calls and visits from family and old friends from the hall. They are concerned about us and want us to come back because the ‘end’ is right around the corner. My brother, who never talks to me anyway and I think my mom made him do it, came to my house and told me he thought i was wrong to stop going to meetings and that he felt he would be blood guilty if he did not tell me so. I just know now all of my jw relatives will be coming out of the woodwork needing to tell me what we are doing is wrong and it is very stressful. Would love some suggestions going forward.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 4, 2015 at 4:27 pm
 
Lock the door, close the curtains and hide behind the window…. Oh wait…. HBH Home but hiding lol. We got told off for writing that on the door to door slips. actually it’s exactly what I do on a saturday morning if I have no where else to be around 9:30 – noon.
Reply
 
 mary ruth says:

 November 4, 2015 at 10:00 pm
 
thanks for the laugh, that is exactly what I am doing.
Reply
 
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:41 am
 
Ruth
 Only you know why you left and only you know why you wouldn’t go back.
 Write up a list of ALL those reasons and the things you don’t agree with and send it off to all those you know or come knocking.
 Tell them why. Take a stand for what you know.
Reply
 
 
 
 covertfade says:

 November 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm
 
Well, Mark, thanks for the offer to come home, but I’ve found a new home.
My new home is full of freedom of thought, and the chance to become whatever I want to become, and friends who love me for who I am and not simply because I agree to follow whatever orders seven old out of touch men give.
It’s full of a life lived to a full potential and not postponed for a never-never land built on theocratic genocide. It’s full of the right to make my own choices and experience the highs and lows of those chosen paths. It’s full of the right to live, and love, and think, and speak as the person I really am and not the person you think I should be.
I did give a quick glance to my old home, the one you’re offering to me, but to be honest, it’s a bit silly and full of paedophiles.
Yours-sincerely-and-absolutly-totally-never-coming-backly
Covertfade
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 4, 2015 at 1:59 pm
 
I forced myself to watch the whole video and it was simply gagging to me through the whole thing.
We had two visitors on Sunday night and I love them both so much but I can tell that when they come here, that they think I will be so happy if I “return” to the Kingdom Hall and were just bubbling over with how happy they are that they are in the “truth”.
I didn’t want to come right out and tell them that I hate the Governing Body and think they are a bunch of liars so I copped out and told them that I was agnostic and the looks on their faces were that they felt so sorry for me. I tried to reassure them that I was happy but I could tell they still felt so sorry for me. They went on and on about how it was the “best way of life”, being a Witness and how even though they don’t understand the Hebrew Scriptures and why Jehovah killed all those people and how Lot slept with his daughters and how David killed all those people because David took a census and on and on, it was still the “best way of life”.
I just smiled and only was able to tell them a couple of things like what the real ten commandments really are as in Exodus 33 and that ours is the only Bible that implies that Jephthah did not kill his daughter and they did say they were going to go home and look it up. At least I accomplished that much. But I couldn’t say anything else. My husband sat there and about taped my mouth shut but it was the delusional happiness they were trying to get across that was the biggest obstacle to my telling them how I really feel about the “truth” that held me back from spilling my guts to them, if only to save them from wasting the rest of their lives on the lies of the Society. Being in the position of knowing the whole truth about the “truth” is the worst position to be in and as much as I want to warn them, I know what a horrible position it will put them in and that to be in that position like what we all are in, once we learn the real truth, is the worst position to be in and is life destroying.
There are so many people (like our friends that came over) who really love the “truth” and if they could listen with an open ear why we have left the “truth”, they would not want to have anything to do with it either. If we could only warn our families and friends and we could all escape it together. That is the best way to escape but the Watchtower has done such a good job of mind control over them, that it’s almost impossible to do.
What the Society doesn’t do in that latest jwbroadcasting episode, when it comes to encouraging former Witnesses to come “home”, is to let those people start spewing anything negative about the Society. They carefully scripted that into one of the experiences.
The former Witnesses who might receive a visit from active Witnesses, know full well that if they start saying anything negative about the Society they will be called on the carpet for apostasy and so they can’t say how they really feel if it’s negative towards the Society.
The Society is only going after people who still believe it’s the “truth” but just got lazy or left because of some other reason like depression or married out of the “truth” or got disfellowshipped or something like that.
In that video, it never encouraged active Witnesses to listen to the real reasons the inactive Witnesses left but made it look like once these people come back to meetings, that they will be welcomed into a “family” of smiling and happy friends again. This might work for friendless people but once these people start associating again, the burdens will be on them once again to go in service (a lot), all the meetings and assemblies and on and on.
The video makes it look like all those people at the Kingdom Hall are so happy but that video is made up of a bunch of actors, playing a part. In real Kingdom Halls, many people are at the meetings because they are guilted into going or else they think God will kill them at Armageddon. Many patiently sit through the meetings so they can socialize afterwards and before the meetings, but if they don’t have any real close friends at the Kingdom Hall, they can walk in and sit there and walk out and go home afterwards and suffer the worst depression because they are not one of the popular ones. I remember lots of times, putting my time in at the meetings and going home and stuffing my face with ice cream because the meetings made me so depressed. That is the reality of a lot of us.
If you go in service a lot and don’t miss any meetings, they might still pick on you because you might have mentioned a certain television show that you liked that wasn’t what they might have approved of. That happened to me a lot of the time so I learned to keep my mouth shut most of the time so as not to be judged. You can’t even talk about any book you might have read and enjoyed. Once I did that and a pioneer sister said “if I had that kind of time, I’d be reading the Bible instead”. She said that while she was going to the bathroom at McDonalds during break and I was washing up my hands.
I heard that our congregation had a congregation needs talk a couple months ago and suggested that if you aren’t regular at meetings and not putting in a lot of time in service then you are bad association. I heard that some people felt pretty hurt by that. I know the reason for a talk like that is to guilt people into not missing meetings and going in service more. A talk like that, wouldn’t encourage me, but discourage me but that is how the brothers think. They hold out the “carrot” of people associating with you, by how much you can do in the “truth”.
If only all those people could realize that the Society has no control over them at all and all that “love” is only conditional. So many of those people could get off their pills that they are keeping, not to kill themselves because of the depression that being a Witness brings on them because of all the burdens it imposes on them, once they start associating again or once they “come home” to the Kingdom Hall.
Reply
 
 Jake says:

 November 4, 2015 at 3:39 pm
 
That’s one comment I’d love to hear at a meeting.
Reply
 
 
 Jake says:

 November 4, 2015 at 4:02 pm
 
This word “inactive” is a control word.
 It also shows the opinion they have of themselves. It (the word) is based on Peters words. How do they know I’m “inactive”?, or is it because I disagree and disagree with being labelled too? Yours is obviously the right way, how stupid could I be, I’m so sorry.
 Arrogance to describe a person like that and then promote yourself as the right way. . Me thinks.
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:09 pm
 
We haven’t been to a meeting since the special talk last year, and I would agree that the people in general are not happy. We were the inactive ones who you think they’d be putting on a good front for and trying to encourage, but there’s just too much dysfunction to keep bottled up for that long. Just smile and nod your head as they divulge their emotional, financial and family woes, one after another. Our own families suspect how inactive we are, but still complain to us about the problems in the congregation, and moan about the same individuals who were bothering them 20 years ago. Somehow I think we’re a subconscious outlet for them, a touchstone of reality. I keep hoping we’ll “win them over without a word” if they eventually recognize how relatively sane our lives have become since we’ve faded. I leave little crumbs of TATT here and there covertly in conversation. Time will tell.
Reply
 
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 4, 2015 at 9:49 pm
 
@ Caroline
Good comment. I know tons of JWs that are on pills for depression anxiety disorders. In no way do I wish to judge anyone who suffers from depression, rather, I like you realize that situational depression is very high amongst JW’s. Where is holy spirit that produces peace of mind that excels all thought.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 3:02 pm
 
I think some of these persons would perhaps be better served if they were to visit a professional counsellor/therapist/psychologist. Sadly the WT discourages JWs from seeking outside help from worldly persons. They are instead told that there are qualified elders appointed to shepherd the flock of God and that these elders are “like a hiding place from the wind, a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless land, like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land” (Isaiah 32:2).
Unfortunately, many of these elders haven’t a clue about counselling psychology, they do not have the experience, skills and know-how to deal with psychological/mental health issues and so many in the congregations do not get the right help that they need.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:36 am
 
Caroline, I think this push to return to Jehovah is to make those who are still fooled by all this, to think that the GB is doing such a fine job and is so loving, that they would ask those who left to return. It just makes the GB look good they think. And it is also to reassure the friends that they are in the time of the end and that they are doing the right thing here. Oh how kind they are?
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
Meredith J, I agree with you completely. That “show” was to make themselves look good. There was no sincerity in it at all.
Now when we get visits from people who before didn’t want anything to do with us, come calling, we can ask them why now????
I will tell them that I also watch jwbroadcasting. Why now, when before, I wasn’t good enough to visit with? The only ones that are welcome in my house now are those who would talk to me BEFORE the broadcast.
What is so curious is that now, one of my cousins suddenly is posting on my Facebook page again but for months, she wasn’t. It is so obvious.
They can’t think for themselves and whatever the Watchtower tells them to do, they do. They are non-thinking, non-feeling robots in my opinion. I don’t “need” those kinds of friends. Fortunately, I still have family who aren’t Witnesses and they aren’t fake.
My husband has been diagnosed with inoperable stage four cancer and as much as he “loves” the “truth”, you think anybody from his hall will call him or come over to visit him??? Hell no.
As much as our oldest daughter “loves” the “truth”, she is very disappointed with our congregation too but she won’t stop “loving” the “truth”. It should tell her something but it doesn’t. All it does, is break her heart at how unloving they are here. All’s he gotten are some really stupid get well cards.
But, now, in the shape he’s in, I don’t even want to tell him any more about the lies of the Watchtower. Now, I am glad he’s at least got the hope of waking up in the new world, like what he thinks is going to happen.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones I think who can’t deal with death. They are all led to believe that they aren’t going to die, which is such a shame because if Armageddon doesn’t come like they think it will in their life time (which it hasn’t for over one hundred years and counting now), they have wasted their only short years they had on this earth, serving a publishing company when they could have been going to school, expanding their minds, raising families and enjoying their short lives, instead of being forced to go in service, meetings and studying all that Watchtower literature and spending how much money going in service, going to assemblies and sticking their money into the contribution boxes and washing windows and cleaning houses. What a shame it all was.
How many of those people died because they refused blood and how many of their kids died because they couldn’t take blood? And for what? So a publishing company could build more and more Kingdom Halls and assembly halls to build up their real estate empire.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 disillusioned says:

 November 4, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
I am df’d, but attempting to return, for 4+ years I have attended all the meetings and lived a ‘sin-free’ life but no success at being reinstated. In fact after one letter requesting reinstatement it took 6 months after the committee meeting, for the body of elders even to give a reply. I would say that my ‘sin’ was particularly notorious, also being female I think makes a big difference. Just interested if any of the elders /ex-elders out there can tell me if there is an unwritten law that x years must pass before considering reinstatement. I am not in the original congregation so away from certain ones who were affected. When I have asked why, they have just made excuses, for example saying the brothers wouldn’t feel comfortable if I was allowed back into the congregation….feeling more and more disillusioned. So even though they are saying that they want inactive ones to return to the fold, for disfellowshipped ones it’s a different matter!!!
 Very good comments Robert67 by the way….
Reply
 
 JustFree says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:02 pm
 
Hi dissilusioned,
 hang in there my friends! I was in the same-ish situation, I wrote a letter requesting to be reinstated every 3 months… they kept saying oh.. the brothers would be stumbled if you got reinstated right away etc. keep those letters coming! I this they have a 1 year minimum policy…unwritten rule of course. Stay strong… and most importantly do your research and get free from this crazy cult!
Reply
 
 
 
 Innocent Son says:

 November 4, 2015 at 3:05 pm
 
But is it unconditional love that’s on offer? A resounding no! As long as you go back cap in hand so to speak and admit that you were wrong to develop independent thinking and accept all the Borg’s teaching all will be forgotten. I for one will not be doing that, but I prefer to remain under their radar and watch things develop…
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 4, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
If you bow down and do one act of worship to me….. hmm. Get behind me satan/GB
Reply
 
 
 
 Richard says:

 November 4, 2015 at 5:16 pm
 
I’m sorry Lloyd, but I don’t really like that answer, particularly because of this part:
“If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings”
The problem with that statement is that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the faintest clue what the word “evidence” means, and this is just inviting a long, frustrating conversation full of nonsense.
I would simply state that I have no desire to “come back” to something that simply isn’t true, and I certainly don’t support the many harmful beliefs the Jehovah’s Witnesses are indoctrinated to accept. Beliefs that are immoral and anti-scientific. There is nothing that a Jehovah’s Witness can say or do that would make me even consider returning to that facade, because I’m intimately familiar with the cult and all its teachings and I want no part of it. Ever.
..that’s how I would approach it.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:45 pm
 
@Richard, if my husband is any indicator of what it is like trying to talk to a Witness who is convinced it is the “truth”, it simply won’t work to tell them that it isn’t the truth and that the beliefs are immoral and anti-scientific and that there is nothing they can say or do to make us return. You can’t get out two words and they close their minds.
The best thing to do is to turn the table on them and have them convince us what kind of evidence they have that it’s the true religion because there is no evidence and putting them on the spot like that, will for them for once in their life, to try and come up with proof.
All our lives, we read from the magazines that it was God’s organization, but they never once gave any evidence. We just took their word for it, like the 1981 March 1st Watchtower pages 24-27 called “Do You Appreciate the Faithful and Discreet Slave” where on page 27 it lists 80 supposedly “Overwhelming Credentials”. I am going to list them and this list explains it all.
1) Noah’s wife
 2) angels sent to Lot
 3) Rebekah
 4) Joseph and Benjamin
 5) gleanings left behind
 6) two spies to Rahab
 7) Barak
 8) Jephthah
 9) Naomi and Ruth
 10) David’s Israelite warriors
 11) Jehu
 12) Mordecai and Esther’
13) Job
 14) King’s daughter
 15) men of loving-kindness
 16) Intimate group
 17) Shear-jashub
 18) light of the nations
 19) big trees of righteousness
 20) ministers of our God
 21) cluster preserved
 22) servants called by another name
 23) men trembling
 24) new nation born
 25) Jeremiah
 26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant
 27) enduring watchman
 28) cleansed people
 29) cleansed people
 30) dwellers in center of earth
 31) the host of heaven
 32) sanctuary restored (cleansed)
 33) they that are wise
 34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation
 35) all flesh receiving the spirit
 36) Jonah
 37) apple of Jehovah’s eye
 38) liberated remnant
 39) a Jew
 40) Sons of Levi
 41) Wheat
 42) sons of the kingdom
 43) workers for the vineyard
 44) those invited to marriage feast
 45) chosen ones
 46) eagles
 47) faithful and discreet slave
 48) discreet virgins
 49) brothers of the king
 50) little flock of sheep
 51) beggar Lazarus
 52) sheep in “this fold”
53) branches of the vine
 54) royal palace of David
 55) heirs with Christ
 56) the remnant
 57) branches in the olive tree
 58) holy ones or saints
 59) temple
 60) new creation
 61) ambassadors for Christ
 61) congregation of God
 63) part of Abraham’s seed
 64) Israel of God
 65) body of Christ
 66) soldiers of Christ Jesus
 67) house under Christ
 68) holy priesthood
 69) holy nation
 70) association of brothers
 71) seven congregations
 72) twenty-four persons of advanced age
 73) spiritual Israel
 74) locusts
 75) two witnesses
 76) two olive trees
 77) seed of the woman
 78) New Jerusalem
 79) the bride of Christ
 80) Jehovah’s Witnesses
After each of these “overwhelming” credentials, is a scripture. In the old days, I would have looked up those scriptures and tried to apply it to the Governing Body’s “credentials”. Now I look at those scriptures and would like to have the Society explain how those scriptures apply to their having overwhelming credentials. What this looks like to me, is that they opened up their Bibles and pointed at a scripture and put it down as a “credential”. Those supposed “credentials” are ridiculous, to say the least.
We never expected the Watchtower to explain how any of those scriptures apply to anything they ever wrote. They put scriptures in the paragraphs and WE supplied the explanation, pretending like we “got it”.
We played right into their hands and that is because we believed what they said without asking for any evidence. They don’t have any evidence of any credentials or they would have come up with something a whole lot better than what they did, not this nonsense that they put in that Watchtower article.
Witnesses have no evidence. All they have is the Governing Body saying that they were appointed by God. Put any Witness on the spot and see what evidence they come up with.
What you will hear is that they are the only ones using Jehovah’s name (not true). They will say they are the only ones preaching from door to door (not true). They will say to look at the fruitage (doesn’t prove a thing). They will say they are the only ones who won’t join the army (not true).
What matters is, do they have any evidence that it’s God’s only organization and they don’t have evidence. They only take the Society’s word for it.
Reply
 
 Richard says:

 November 5, 2015 at 10:48 pm
 
@Caroline, I understand your point of view. From my experience speaking to my family members, they simply don’t understand the meaning of the word evidence. When I’ve “turned it around” on the, and asked them for evidence to prove what they believe is true, the things that constitute evidence in their mind are just ridiculous, and when you try to explain what would actually constitute real evidence, they disagree and accuse me of “just wanting to make excuses to sin”, and “you’re just mad at Jehovah”.. and the conversation becomes pointless and ugly. That’s my experience anyways.
Reply
 
 
 
 

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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost →
 
My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
avatar 
Posted on November 4, 2015

Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return

Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.
They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.
This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.
Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.
I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…

I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.
Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.
But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.
Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.


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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost →
 
255 Responses to My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast

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 Lisa Clark says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:11 pm
 
I too received that loving brochure from my mother. I wrote her back a similar letter as Lloyds. The one thing I asked her was “how do you feel about all the child abuse going on in the organization that is hidden. This was her response via a text. “Received your letter today. You asked me to reply & according to Bible prophecy we know these things will happen in the last days & It will cause some people to do wrong & change their beliefs. But as an individual I will stick w/ what I know is the truth & worship our God Jehovah” Pretty disturbing but at least I spoke up.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 4, 2015 at 6:24 pm
 
Sometimes it’s like bashing you’re head against a brick wall. I guess when ‘we’ went door to door we felt the same about people. Now we are ‘out’ and trying to get the RaF to see what it is going on we feel just as frustrated. When I began to wake up it was a ‘feeling’ that something wasn’t right’. Then I looked at my two df’d (adult) children and knew then that the society was wrong. It snowballed from there. Now I can’t stand being at the meetings I do go to. Just forcing myself to watch the GB in their studio doing the whole web broadcasting makes me sick. I’m so thankful I have this site because I know it’s not just me who feels this way.
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 November 5, 2015 at 8:06 am
 
Tara
 I read all your comments. You come across as an amazing person with great humor and insights.
That aside…why do you still go?
 Just leave…..
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 5, 2015 at 8:47 am
 
Thanks for the nice comment Garrett… I like to think of myself as a covert, sarcastic, rebel :p
I would love to leave but it’s not that easy is it. My daughter got reinstated so she could again talk to her friends…. she doesn’t really believe but the loss of friendship hurts her. My grandchild lives with her mother, a reinstated witness who lives in a different town, miles away, surrounded by her ‘witness’ family. One of our elders is related to them… there is already a custody thing going with my son (df’d). If I leave they will stop her seeing me. I have to wait… bide my time.
I sat with my daughter at the meeting this week and her little one…. we left half way through. There were maybe 30 people there out of 120 ish. Most looked bored and were paying more attention to the kids who were bored and playing up. Same old hands up, same blaa blaa comments. I felt pity for them all and want them to wake up.. Most are nice people who are just brainwashed and gullible. They have no where else to go, or so they think.
Who knows… this little bit of leaven may ferment the whole lump.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Rikos says:

 November 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm
 
I am reading a book call The History of atheism.
 One of the chapter talks about in the middle ages about the 1300 AD in Europe, if some one have some doughs about the catholic church or the pope or about god, or any question regarding the church this person automatically becomes excommunicated, but later the1500 AD their burnet any one who challenge the church. But before the 1500AD the excommunicated was thousands and thousands.
 The catholic church make an a piling to those excommunicators to returner home to the church, and the church will reinstate them.
 the reason the church make this request to ex-communicators because was so many and the church was afraid maybe these people they may start war and valance against the catholic church. so it was better for the catholic church to bring them in and benefitted from their donations rather keeper hem loose end expose the catholic church their lies and their false teaching. The watchtower following the same method like the Catholics by inviting the people who left have
 less to worry from the opposes if they bring them in to their cult house can condoling them and take their money again.
Reply
 
 
 Catalina says:

 November 4, 2015 at 8:24 pm
 
I was going to wait for Cedars review of the November broadcast but I went on ahead and watched it. I wonder what my sister thinks of this November broadcast. The first time I was inactive she told me to my face the reason she hadn’t been talking to me for so many years was because I wasn’t going to any of the meetings. For me, my experience is JWS don’t practice what they preach.
Reply
 
 
 lithargoel says:

 November 5, 2015 at 12:20 am
 
Hi all !
… as it’s now plainly visible on the wheat field, may be is it due time to pull up the “rye grass” and … burn it completely !
…
Reply
 
 
 Jake says:

 November 5, 2015 at 1:15 am
 
Pink floyd ‘sheep’ sums up indoctrination for me.
Reply
 
 
 enuffsenuff says:

 November 5, 2015 at 1:26 am
 
LLoyd, fair comments in your article, I suppose, because I agree in principle with them, and most of the comments by regular contributors likewise make valid comments on the topic. But things have been a bit quiet lately, no major blunders, no stuff ups, no miserable letters to the BOE’s been leaked, that we can consume with distaste and disgust… so this wasn’t just an article to keep the pot boiling?
 It does seem like that, lulls can be hard to deal with for people and momentum is everything. Without spectacular scoops interest fades. I hope that contributors remember patience is everything. There was a football coach in describing what seemed like a long time for his team to win more games quoted Confucius, “the ox is slow but the earth is patient”, and then there was the quote (from memory and ad lib) “if we have been treated unjustly… God will hand out justice, but if we are really blessed we will see him do it”.
Reply
 
 Barb Moor says:

 November 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm
 
huh? Do you have a short-term memory issue? This is new stuff, the Nov JW broadcast. And the Australian HC isn’t even over yet.
I’m sort of surprised that anyone would suggest there’s a lull and Cedars is simply trying to stir something up. Maybe you haven’t been one that has been gifted with the ridiculous brochure yet. I took mine with a wry smile, being handed it from someone who (I know factually) cheats on their taxes, has committed several disfellowshippable offenses that her never brought public, and remains incredibly hateful and petty.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:09 am
 
Why oh why do they want us. Probably because they are bored witless. Not because they had much wit, but you know “no wood and the fire goes out”. They have finished character annihilating one another. The elderettes have no one else to bitch about as all has been said and done on the latest sisters naff outfit or incorrect shoes. They have picked holes in each others trousers hair cuts, beards, non beards and anything else you can think of. They are bored, bored , bored stupid . So now dear lost, faded, inactive , anti social, VICTIMS, let’s turn our attention to you. Vomit time. Weeeee luv you soooo much we want you to return to the weak and beggarly things> We want you to feel the guilt from the inside out and to never be good enough again. We want YOU to be the subject of our gossip and scrutiny because we’ve used each other up and have no poor fool to bitch about anymore. Are you not sad for us? THe elders are sitting around waiting, just for you, you naughty little sheep because you may be lost and if you come back they promise to put you in in the bosom position. NO they will beat you and fleece you and kick you again. Remember how good it felt to be so abused and hurt .that is all free of charge. There is a proviso you must give us all your bloody money because we haven,t got any . Give until you are wrung dry again and guess what we’ll kick you out again before God does it because we like to do God’s job for him . So dear little foolish sheep go back, go back and see for yourself how saccherin in large doses may have no calories but kills in the end. (this post is for ironic purposes only) ruthless/ruthlee.
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:42 am
 
I think it’s a legitimate post with value. It may not be scandalous or reveal some great secret about the ORG, but it’s relevant to what a lot of us inactive ones are contending with. The ORG tries to tug on our heart strings and especially those of the ones that are still in and that have family members who have drifted away. But they gloss over, no, ignore, any of the real issues and reasons why they are losing members. The brochure “Return to Jehovah” proves this. They list some reasons why people may have drifted away from the Truth, but most of those are superficial, “safe” stories that take no responsibility for any faults within the organization itself. It completely shields itself, remaining spotless and unblemished, as of course the chosen organization of God should be.
So I don’t think this article is “click bait”, or just keeping the fire stoked. I feel like it is a help to those that have left or drifted, but are defenseless in the propagandist attacks and pleas to regain members in the religion.
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:44 am
 
Oops, I meant to reply to the comment above by “enuffsenuff”.
Reply
 
 
 Waseldersdawter says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:47 pm
 
I found the article enormously helpful! It’s very relevant for those of us who are being pestered by our families to come back to the miserable cult. Forewarned is forearmed I say, and for that I am grateful.
Reply
 
 
 Baby says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:09 am
 
dismiss your concerns the Bible say: 1peter 5:7 ”while you throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.”
John 6:44 “No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day”
(Ezekiel 34:16) “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”
(Psalm 119:176) I have strayed like a lost sheep. Search for your servant, For I have not forgotten your commandments.
(Luke 21:34-36) “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35 as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36 Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”
meditate on these Bible verses.
listen to the November program of JW.Broadcasting tv.jw.org and tries to hear the voice of Jehovah your God
Reply
 
 kofybean says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:26 pm
 
“listen to the November program … and tries to hear the voice of Jehovah your God”
Wait… what?
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 5, 2015 at 12:21 pm
 
@ ruthlee – kudos on your comments!
The abusers find life rather boring when there is no one around to abuse.
Reply
 
 David Tritenbach says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:11 pm
 
Yes, their running out of people to abuse so they need you to “Return to Jehovah!”. If I shared the wickedness I experienced in this organization most would say “oh, there must be two sides to each story” but its amazing how many of us share similar attacks against our name, lies, slander and accusations to discredit us so our truth might not reach anyone seeking answers.
Allow me to share some Witness logic with you, there’s a Witness girl raised in since she was 31 years old. She was asked to do something that bothered her conscience, tell the person on the phone “her employer was not home!” only to tell her employer “please pay me in cash because it will stop my Food Stamps and Government Benefits!
” Do you see the insanity, she’s been handing out brochures “Return to Jehovah” but how can I take anything she say’s seriously when she has no problem with tax-theft but act’s pious that “I can’t lie and tell some tell-a-marketer your not home?” That’s what bothers me greatly about this organization, they abuse, cheat, hate, lie and act so evil and feel their doing the works of Jesus Christ?
Reply
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 November 8, 2015 at 10:41 pm
 
Sounds familiar. I know an elder-pioneer, well off with multiple investments who keeps his earned income just below a certain threshold so his family can receive government benefits and free healthcare. Somehow they manage to vacation in Hawaii and Florida yearly.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 i sawthelight says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:23 am
 
Return hell. What about this cult would I want to return? Give me one reason.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:56 am
 
I am probably going to see my son on the weekend. This is going to play on my mind I am sure. I think if it wasn’t for his wife he would be a lot more open about it.
I have already been handed that Return To Jehovah brochure by my youngest grand daughter. (She has been well trained sadly) I don’t think I would go being general like that, although I am sure we would pick our own tactics. I would try more facts than scriptures I think. The fact that they became an NGO with the UN, their disgusting history in dealing with pedophiles and their horrible practice of disfellowshipping is unChristian. They probably would hate me but I feel they have to be told. If it comes up again in an unrelated way, then they will remember that it had already been mentioned.
Still, this is a good point for this article to make. What would we say if we are put on the spot? Maybe we should have something in mind if we are asked. Our answer might save someone from being subjected to this cult any longer than they have to. In my case it would be my son, his wife and their three dear little children. I still think prayer is important too.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 5, 2015 at 4:51 am
 
Meredith, I think the simplest thing to tell them is that the Society is lying about 607 or have them prove that God is backing the Organization.
If you go to that 2011 Nov. 1st Watchtower article on page 23 in the footnote, it plainly says that no secular authorities quoted in the article agree with 607 B.C.E.
When you tell them that, they will say that we “need to wait on Jehovah” so then you can tell them that the Society has been proved wrong for over thirty years! So, they know, but lie about it. Why? It is because the whole religion will crumble and fall if they don’t stick to that date. It proves they are liars. Keep it as simple as possible.
No matter how many facts you come up with, either scriptures or other facts to prove they are liars, most likely whatever you say to them will fall on deaf ears, if any of my experiences have held true.
I have found a Youtube channel about narcissism that you can suggest to anyone who complains about anybody and that is a couple by the name of Smakintosh. If you just type in Smakintosh, their channel comes up. They have a wide variety of topics on narcissism that you can choose and once they listen to them, they will see Watchtower all over the place in the description of malignant narcissists.
All of us know people who make us crazy with their comments or the way they act and all of us will relate to those videos in one way or another. What I love about them, is that when they describe these abusive people, we are describing the people in the Watchtower Organization.
It tells us why we suffered depression all that time we were in the Organization because we didn’t “fit in” with them because the Society actually trains it’s followers to be self-serving and egomaniacs.
We were always told how much better we were than the “world” because we had the only one and true religion and we could pat ourselves on the back because we were the only ones fulfilling the mandate at Matthew 28: 19,20.
We were taught to “hate” anybody who didn’t think like we did and to hate anybody who turned away from Jehovah (Organization). We were taught to be sociopaths.
If we felt even a little bit out of place in the Organization, it is because we knew deep down that there was something wrong with the religion. We probably didn’t see all our our friends and relatives and the people we worked with as “evil”. We probably liked those people instead of hating them, unless they came into the “truth”.
When I think back, I was also turned into a sociopath but now I see why. It is because I was under the hypnotic control of Watchtower speak. I bought into it hook, line and sinker but now I can see the “truth” for what it is.
I also couldn’t see the “truth” for what it was either for all those years. It took me months of deep researching to realize that it’s all a lie. There might be some who can wake up suddenly, but not many. What it takes is just one little crack, like maybe 607 B.C.E. or having them prove it’s God’s only religion. It is so hard for them to realize they have been lied to by the Society.
Anyway, listen to some of Smakintosh videos and see what you think. Everybody gets driven crazy by somebody and their videos might help them see people for what they really are and they have nothing to do with “apostate” web sites. That is one way to help them see it for what it is without drawing attention to all the Watchtower lies. When they see those personalities as abusive, they can relate it to people they know at the Kingdom Hall.
Also, Lloyd has mentioned about the worst religion in the world, that church that goes to funerals and screams at those people. I think it’s the Westboro Baptist Church and you can play those videos for them and they will see Watchtower all over it. Even anything about Scientology might help them realize how much of a cult it is. You just can’t bring up anything when it comes to doctrines in the Watchtower because they are too brainwashed to see it and will close their ears.
Also, you should be able to use old literature now since at the annual meeting, they said that our literature doesn’t become outdated and so that’s why they aren’t going to be putting dates on the magazines anymore. They can’t claim it’s “old light” anymore.
Reply
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:31 am
 
Caroline, the best book on 607 BC which I have read is by a former Swedish Witness Carl Olof Jonsson entitled “The Gentile Times Reconsidered”. It was his research on that very topic that prompted the book.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 5, 2015 at 9:36 am
 
Thanks James. I have read that book and I also highly recommend it.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:05 am
 
The WT of 2011 misquoted the archaeologists mentioned..http://adelmomedeiros.com/engrespostasdoseruditos587.htm#rs
Sad that they would do this but not unexpected. This might be worth printing out or saving to show the misrepresentation of the WT.
Reply
 
 Thinker says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:14 am
 
When one compares the research and writing level of the 2011 WT article to Carl Olaf Jonnson’s, Gentile Times Reconsidered, as well as his response to the 2011 WT article, the scholarly level of the WT writers is woefully inadequate. It’s like reading an essay written by a high school kid compared to a graduate thesis. Why can’t the WT writers contribute something more substantial? Oh wait, not only are they standing on a toothpick premise–they don’t allow their adherents to go to pursue higher education. A high school essay is what you get.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:09 am
 
Meredith, I myself had to literaly see with my own eyes everything that ex-jw’s were alleging was in print. I hunted down dozens of pertinent books on their false prophecies and contradictions. Perhaps you can start with Russels first book complete with Great Pyramid 1914 fold out and its manipulated measurements. You get gems like the false 1914 doomsdate, all annointed ones completed by 1881; making current annointed ones a contradiction or Highlander swordsmen.
 Another great book is Miilions now living will never die written by the great apostate to Russels teachings himself JR Rutherford. Break down the Beth-Sarim mansion as explained by Rutherford himself as having been built for those prophets that he was expecting to resurrect and ring his door bell at any moment. How he used that mansion as his personal luxury home in sunny California complete with Swimming Pool incase King David wanted to take a few laps upon returning.
 The list is embarrassingly longer than that on the absolute clear markers of being charlatans, but these are a few suggestions to get started and in the case of life long witnesses like me, I had to see it for myself in print, not just the interwebs.
The very least that can come out of it as that both your son and doughter in law will be more sensitive to the non sensical ramblings of these 7 CEO’s and their ever changing interpretation of scripture.
Reply
 
 Anna says:

 November 8, 2015 at 2:02 pm
 
….in case king David wanted to take a few laps of the pool ! Lol so funny that, haha
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 November 5, 2015 at 3:51 am
 
‘Please come back to Sugarcandy Mountain’.
Thing is we already know what’s there and it ain’t nice.
 The pigs may rule the roost but not my faith.
Reply
 
 
 Jake says:

 November 5, 2015 at 5:05 am
 
“This work was strictly voluntary, but any animal who absented himself from it would have his rations reduced by half.”
Excerpt From: Orwell, George. “Animal Farm.”
Reply
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:25 am
 
Jake, there is a superb book by Heather and Gary Botting entitled “The Orwellian World of Jehovah’s Witnesses”. Well worth a read.
Reply
 
 
 
 Peter Jeuck says:

 November 5, 2015 at 5:28 am
 
More proof the Watchtower is in financial trouble. They know that the inactive ones tallys into millions of individuals, which then translates into lost donations that in return value into the millions of dollars.
Watchtower’s push on Armaggeddon adds an urgency to this “return to Watchtower” campaign for funds. They don’t care one bit for the souls (welfare) who left them, only the ” valuable things” (tax free mind you) that no longer streams into the coffers of the organization. As for truth? They make up the “truth” as they go along. What ever best suits the Watchtower’s financial bottom line is the only ” truth” that matters to them. From the days of CT Russell to the present. There is no single truth. I don’t think there are too many “Bible based” teachings so sacrosanct as to not fall vulnerable to reinterpretation. If the physical laws governing the universe were so malleable as to be subject to so much change , we not only wouldn’t but couldn’t exist. Since the existence of this universe ( and if one so believes it to be God’s universe) absolutely depends upon the stable truths of gravity etc. If these laws are not immutable. If these laws were subject to whatever interpretation suited God’s whimsical desire at any given point in time, the universe would simply disintegrate into chaotic rubble. Watchtower’s truths have never been immutable. They are amoebic often nonsensical doctrines meant to do one thing alone, terrify members from leaving. Look hard at the organization’s history. That is all it is.
Reply
 
 
 Peter Jeuck says:

 November 5, 2015 at 6:06 am
 
I had typed a comment I’m not sure took… Mistake on email address. I was born and raised a Bible Student. They adhered to CT Russell’s teachings and separated from Watchtower in the late 1920s and early 1930s. When I first left, I was racked with guilt over abandoning my “heritage.” All my family back generations well into Russell’s day had been Bible Students. As time passed and I could see the doctrines for what they really were, I lost all sense of guilt and shame. I would never go back to them ever again, no matter how thick they’d try to lay the guilt on, or however earnest their intent would be for my “spiritual ” welfare, I would never return. I simply do not believe what they teach. Truth is indeed important for one to maintain his integrity, and truth is important to me. Bible Students and I’d say the same about the current Watchtower doctrines, are not the truth! That is all there is to it. If they can’t accept that fact, then that’s too bad for them. Actually I had been approached several times, but not in recent years. I was reminded of my heritage, as if I owed something to those who indoctrinated me from the time I was born. Nope! I do not owe them a single thing. Conversely however? I’d gain say they owe me a lot in terms of the years of therapy I incurred as a result of the mind and soul bending they did to me growing up. But that’s water passed long under the bridge. It’s been since the early 2000s since I stopped attending , and I have no regrets whatsoever.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 6:22 am
 
@Markie:
The WT certainly started out as a publishing company under Rutherford with free labour to distribute its publications. That continued for a while until 1990 when the WT changed its literature distribution program eliminating set prices for literature items. JWs believed the Governing Body instituted a “simplified” arrangement. Few know (including myself at the time) that the change really took place because Jimmy Swaggart lost his case in court regarding the payment of tax for religious books. In a February 21, 1990 letter to congregations, the Society explained the new policy this way:
By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah’s people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion (new light! – it took the WT quite a few years to realize that they were doing it wrong. Wonder why God’s Holy Spirit didn’t tell them not to ask for set prices for literature in the first place?)
However, this is what really happened:
•Early 1980 State of California informs Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax is due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. Swaggart eventually pays the tax–$183,000.00–but sues for a refund. The case begins moving toward the U.S. Supreme Court.
•February, 1989 U.S. Supreme Court rules it is illegal for Texas (and 14 other states) to exempt religious books from sales tax. Some states had been taxing religious books all along.
•Summer, 1989 WT Society gives away “free” books released at U.S. conventions. Witnesses are instructed to place donations in contribution boxes to cover the cost.
•June 22, 1989 Watchtower Society, files amicus curiae (“friend of the court”) brief with U.S. Supreme Court in Jimmy Swaggart case. Others filing similar briefs include National Council of Churches and Society for Krishna Consciousness.
•January 17, 1990 U.S. Supreme Court rules against Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, declaring that the sales tax must be paid.
•February 9, 1990 WT Society writes letter to congregations announcing that literature will no longer be sold at Kingdom Hall and no price will be set in door-to-door distribution.
•February 25, 1990 February 9th letter from Society is read at Sunday meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses across the United States.
•March 1, 1990 New policy of distributing literature without naming a price goes into effect.
•The March 15, 1990, WATCHTOWER magazine and March 22nd AWAKE!–printed earlier–still say “25 cents (U.S.) a copy” and “$5.00 (U.S.) per year.” The April 1, 1990, Watchtower no longer carries a price.
•March 11, 1990 Announcement is made at Kingdom Halls in the U.S. that food will be available at no cost, on a freewill donation basis, at JW conventions.
This info as well as the legal brief that was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case can be found at:http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jw_jimmy_swaggart.htm
Watchtower – May 15, 1960, page 295: “The Scriptures justify the ‘war strategy’ of hiding true facts from the enemy.”
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:27 pm
 
@dee – you missed something in “what really happened” there— you see it was published in WSJ that the Watchtower had filed “amicus curiae” during the Swaggert trial, then we had the famous “free literature” switch.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 2:51 pm
 
@JBob
Thanks for your feedback.
 I did mention in my comment that a friend of the court legal brief (amicus curiae) was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case. The link for the amicus curiae document was also provided in my comment………..it is certainly ironic that the WT scorns, denounces and brands other religions as evil but suddenly God’s Holy Spirit directed his earthly organization to file an amicus curiae in support of a man who belonged to one of these evil religions.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:22 pm
 
@JBob
Thanks for your feedback. I did mention in my comment above that a friend of the court legal brief (amicus curiae) was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case. The link for the amicus curiae document was also provided in my comment………….it is certainly ironic that the WT scorns, denounces and brands other religions as evil but suddenly God’s Holy Spirit directed his earthly organization to file an amicus curiae in support of a man who belonged to one of these evil religions.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 6:25 am
 
The WT may no longer be earning as much revenue from the distribution of its publications, it however owns stocks (I understand that some of the companies in which these stocks are held may be questionable) and a significant amount of real estate – the WT recently made a $375 million deal to sell six key properties in Brooklyn, N.Y.: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/huge-watchtower-sell-seen-boosting-new-tech-triangle-2013-07-10-140000
Public records also show that the WT has received subsidies for its farms from the U.S. government:http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A00359922
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 6:29 am
 
The WT certainly started out as a publishing company under Rutherford with free labour to distribute its publications. That continued for a while until 1990 when the WT changed its literature distribution program eliminating set prices for literature items. JWs believed the Governing Body instituted a “simplified” arrangement. Few know (including myself at the time) that the change really took place because Jimmy Swaggart lost his case in court regarding the payment of tax for religious books. In a February 21, 1990 letter to congregations, the Society explained the new policy this way:
By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah’s people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion (new light! – it took the WT quite a few years to realize that they were doing it wrong. Wonder why God’s Holy Spirit didn’t tell them not to ask for set prices for literature in the first place?)
However, this is what really happened:
Early 1980 State of California informs Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax is due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. Swaggart eventually pays the tax–$183,000.00–but sues for a refund. The case begins moving toward the U.S. Supreme Court.
February, 1989 U.S. Supreme Court rules it is illegal for Texas (and 14 other states) to exempt religious books from sales tax. Some states had been taxing religious books all along.
Summer, 1989 WT Society gives away “free” books released at U.S. conventions. Witnesses are instructed to place donations in contribution boxes to cover the cost.
June 22, 1989 Watchtower Society, files amicus curiae (“friend of the court”) brief with U.S. Supreme Court in Jimmy Swaggart case. Others filing similar briefs include National Council of Churches and Society for Krishna Consciousness.
January 17, 1990 U.S. Supreme Court rules against Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, declaring that the sales tax must be paid.
February 9, 1990 WT Society writes letter to congregations announcing that literature will no longer be sold at Kingdom Hall and no price will be set in door-to-door distribution.
February 25, 1990 February 9th letter from Society is read at Sunday meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses across the United States.
 March 1, 1990 New policy of distributing literature without naming a price goes into effect.
The March 15, 1990, WATCHTOWER magazine and March 22nd AWAKE!–printed earlier–still say “25 cents (U.S.) a copy” and “$5.00 (U.S.) per year.” The April 1, 1990, Watchtower no longer carries a price.
March 11, 1990 Announcement is made at Kingdom Halls in the U.S. that food will be available at no cost, on a freewill donation basis, at JW conventions.
This info as well as the legal brief that was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case can be found at:http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jw_jimmy_swaggart.htm
Watchtower – May 15, 1960, page 295: “The Scriptures justify the ‘war strategy’ of hiding true facts from the enemy.”
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:58 pm
 
Everything you said I knew years or decades ago. It was no secret. Calling a religious institution a publishing company is really just being overly critical. Weren’t the magazines offered for $.25 and bibles $3.00. Other books for a buck? Jimmy Swaggert was selling his bibles for a lot more. He was selling them with a good profit margin. No comparison but if they had to pay sales tax the brothers knew they would be next on the states list to go after. Most of the societies money came from donations like it does today. They did not have large profit margins on the literature if any at all. So calling the society a publishing company is just plain short sighted. Seeing what you want to see. But they did sell off Brooklyn at a bad time and then squandered the millions on new cribs for themselves. If they could have waited a few years the would have gotten a lot more.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 2:55 pm
 
@Markie,
Thanks for your feedback.
 The only way that you and I can know whether the WT made a margin on the sale of literature before the new policy of distributing literature without naming a price went into effect, and what that margin was, is to examine their audited balance sheets. As I understand it, the WT does not make its financials public – this was evident from GB member’s Stephen Lett’s May 2015 appearance on JW broadcasting in which JWs were asked to donate their valuable things to cover a projected shortfall in funds, yet no hard numbers on income versus expenditure were presented. I also understand that the WT stated in a yearbook that no financial statements are published, as enemies would use them to hinder the work of the Society.
Until we can see the audited financials on the cost to print literature and the income earned from the set prices for literature before the new policy went into effect, then we won’t know what the margin was.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
Also, it is my opinion that in order for a fair comparison to be done, then perhaps some research needs to be done into whether Jimmy Swaggart had his own printing presses and free labour to print (I understand Bethelites are paid a stipend – don’t know what the situation was back then) and distribute his literature.

 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 
“…..if they had to pay sales tax the brothers knew they would be next on the states list to go after”.
Yes and so the WT rather that not be the case as then the WT would have to open up their accounts to public scrutiny…….. something which the WT is averse to doing.

 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:44 pm
 
……..which brings me to another point – how do JWs just keep giving their money to the WT when it doesn’t want to disclose its audited financial statements and not wonder why this is so? Does the WT have something to hide?
As you have said in your other comments: there certainly are stupid people in the JW religion.

 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:20 pm
 
Also, it is my opinion that in order for a fair comparison to be done, then perhaps some research needs to be done into whether Jimmy Swaggart had his own printing presses and free labour to print (I understand Bethelites are paid a stipend – don’t know what the situation was back then) and distribute his literature.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:36 am
 
Dee, I found this comment recently which might throw more light on the finances question. “I have a friend who has done a bit of searching through the Corporate Records Office. The WT are wealthy alright. Watch Tower petty cash reserves,
 Net Asset Fund $18,575,509,118.83… that’s 18 billion 575 million US dollars as at 9th September 2015
 Not bad for a ‘non-stock, not-for-profit organization’”. Hope that is of help. 
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:56 am
 
I would like to see proof of that. If they have that amount of cash they are smarter then I think. I don’t believe that is accurate.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 5, 2015 at 12:09 pm
 
5000 ignored sex abuse cases in Australia alone x’s $10,000,000.00 each is $50,000,000,000.00 They are a bit short. Now lets play with the worldwide numbers…….
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:48 pm
 
The WTBTS is one of many investors who participate in a JP Morgan “Liquid Assets Money Market Fund” that currently has a value of $18+ billion. The Org is surely far from being broke, but the $18 billion “Net Asset Fund” figure shouldn’t be mistaken for their own petty cash reserves.
I think there would be less of an air of panic in all of the Org’s recent efforts to save (and chase) money if they had that much cash lying around.
I’d love to see abuse victims get everything the Org has, but I fear that the various court systems that will be involved will avoid setting legal precedents that could potentially have a devastating impact on religions more politically influential than our little cult.
That’s not to say the Org won’t have to pay millions to victims. I just don’t think it will be as devastating as we all hope it will be. However, I do think that more and more people realizing that it’s a life-ruining cult WILL be as devastating as we all hope it will be.
Reply
 
 covertfade says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:13 am
 
For what it’s worth, I tend to agree that if the bOrg had 18 Billion just lying around we wouldn’t have seen the succession of embarrassing climb downs recently over construction and the foot shuffling pleas for cash on JW Broadcasting. This is a VERY proud organisation and the only reason they’d be indicating anything other than total financial stability would be if there genuinely were concerns in-house about the books.
The overwhelming narrative they feed their followers is “Jah blesses everything we do and there are never and problems. This lack of problems PROVES God is with us.” The only reason they’d put something out there that ran against that narrative is if they genuinely had to.
TL, DR. They’re not acting like they have a cool 18 Billion on ice.
Reply
 
 markie says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:43 am
 
I didn’t think they had billions. I do believe they sold the properties in Brooklyn and got close to a billion. But I do believe they spent all of it on their new digs. I truly love how they tell us not to pursue things in this world such as education because we are so deep in the time of the end but they are building this wonderful campus using all these brothers and sisters who really should be out in the ministry since we are so close to the time of the end.

 
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:25 am
 
@JAMES BROUGHTON. Does that $18 Billion Dollars ONLY refer to cash on hand?
 Does it include any Real Estate holdings or stocks and Bonds etc? How did your friend have access to that information or get that info? Can he publish it for us and show us
 the source? That would be powerful information to verify.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:52 am
 
Holy C, the $18 billion refers to a fund that many investors are participating in. WTBTS is only one investor in that fund.
Relevant links can be found in the original comment (by enuffs enuff) here: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/12-things-we-learned-from-geoffrey-jacksons-testimony-at-the-royal-commission/comment-page-2#comment-36075
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 5, 2015 at 6:29 am
 
Come back to Jehovah’s organization………………..with your wallet.
Reply
 
 Vivian says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:44 pm
 
That’s funny!
Reply
 
 
 
 MimiLove says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:09 am
 
Has everyone seen this map? I know it isn’t complete but wow…http://aawa.co/jw-crime-map/
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 8, 2015 at 8:08 pm
 
I looked at it and was mortified to see that the guy who murdered baby Peter has or is converting. I know we have to forgive but it came as a shock.
Reply
 
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:14 am
 
Lloyd, that was so helpful. The latest Awake! (November 2015) makes interesting reading with its article”Is Religion Dying Out?” Their use of statistics is highly selective of course and their conclusion is that theirs is the only religion that has Jehovah’s approval. I would like to challenge that. Well done on your response to Mark Sanderson.
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 5, 2015 at 9:16 am
 
Just watched the Sanderson video.
 Mark Sanderson is at least 30% body fat which is obese, yet he quotes Luke
 21:34 which says to not be “overeating”. The GB are clueless.
They show the illustration repeatedly of the sheep and the Shepard. How appropriate!
 Sheep aren’t kept as pets or because people like the company. It’s a business.
 They let them graze on worthless scrub so they can fleece them for wool and eventually kill them for meat.
 Just checked. Lamb chops are on sale at Byerly’s for $14.99 per pound.
 Bet our wooly friend wasn’t too happy about returning to the flock.
If YOU have strayed, …my advice? “Run Forest! Run!”
Reply
 
 Jake says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
 
Lol. You didn’t mention their mental ineptitude.
 Is it that they save their own souls and feel better if they try to reach? . . . Box ticked.
 It’s not about me at all is it?, it’s about you. You’d die for me apparently, give your soul above your own to save my soul, I’d be right in thinking that wouldn’t I?
 Get this right Watchtower I do not bow. So what’s so difficult about a question?
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:17 am
 
To all my ex-jw friends who are having doubts about going back, please listen to this absolute must hear podcast on the subject of dangerous and life threatening religious leaders.
 It is one episode taken from Hardcore History podcast by Dan Carlin
 I recommend listening to the whole thing, maybe during your walking or workout time or as background while you work.
http://podbay.fm/show/173001861/e/1366626424?autostart=1
Reply
 
 MimiLove says:

 November 9, 2015 at 7:02 am
 
I’ve listened to this and have asked my whole family to listen to it telling them its just fascinating history. Hoping they see the same crazy stuff in the WTBS.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 November 5, 2015 at 11:40 am
 
Show me a Jehovahs Witnesess willing to die for me.
 Your a fraud Watchtower. Keep your sh t for your own ears.
 Your on the side you think is winning.
 No offence towards the genuine.x
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 5, 2015 at 12:25 pm
 
I watched the video with interest bc the way I see it the WT is EXCELLENT at propaganda. they take a few examples and make a short video about a few cases where Everything turned out “beautiful” and they lived happily ever after. Well, that isn’t the way it works in the real Worls for JW’s that leave the WT. They leave bc they see the real WT and the way they treat people and abuse thm mentally and physically many times and the fact that the WT has never apologized to any of it’s victims or admitted that they have made hundreds of mistakes and fake prophecies. When I saw the podcast it reminded me of a Jmmy Hendrix song that is a classic called all along the WATCH TOWER! In the opening words of the song he says,” Their must be some kind of way out of her” “said the joker to the thief”. So this website and many others are showing there is a WAY OUT OF HERE! I am including the Song by Jimi Hendrix. Please listen to the words.Much of it does apply to the REAL WT ..https://youtu.be/TLV4_xaYynY
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:26 am
 
From Holy Connoli: Here are the words to the Jimi Hendrix Classic All Along the “WATCHTOWER” AA lot of it applies to the Current Watchtower. I did a little self interpretation WT style!On this Song.
 ..https://youtu.be/TLV4_xaYynY
There must be some kind of way out of here, ” ( THE JW religion )
 Said the joker to the thief,
“There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief. ( The Wt teachings and cult )
 Business men – they drink my wine ( the GB taking money..the Borg )
Plowmen dig my earth ( Publishers working for the WT )
 None of them along the line
 Know what any of it is worth.” ( following the WT and whatever they say )
“No reason to get excited, ” ( The end is not near now so Accept the overlapping generation teaching )
 The thief – he kindly spoke, ( thief is the GB and WT corp )
“There are many here among us
 Who feel that life is but a joke (JWs having their Awakening realize the WT is fake they got scammed)
But you and I we’ve been through that
 And this is not our fate ( getting out of the WT )
 So let us not talk falsely now ( No longer promoting the WT and the WT is a lie )
The hour’s getting late.” (need to realize life goes on and live our lives away from the WT Cult )
All along the watchtower
 Princess kept the view ( Elders and Co controlling your life )
 While all the women came and went
 Bare-foot servants too ( pioneers..mostly women )
Outside in the cold distance
 A wild cat did growl ( anger after realizing the WT lied to us all )
Two riders were approaching ( the WT falling and imploding )
 And the wind began to howl, hey. ( collapse of the Ivory WT )
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:03 am
 
Well, Holy Connoly, you’ve made me pick up my Taylor, lets do this.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:03 am
 
Ah Jake I just had to reply to you.Of course every jw would die for you thats easy because they won’t have to speak to you again. As for charity don’t expect a coat to keep you warm .I need my coat for MY pioneering it’s all about me. Also don’t expect to have a banquet of well oiled dishes you will have to pray for manna and the odd raven to give you meat. Did I say i’d die for you of course not iv’e got too many hours to put on a sheet in fact I really don’t have time even to greet you because i’m so busy in the work.I.m sure you are such an understanding person because if you get cross at me i will show you the imperfect card. I keep that with my blood card right close to my heart lest i should forget……. Out of dreamland now Honestly do we really want pigswill when bread and wine is on offer ? any takers out there ? ruthless/ruthlee.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jake says:

 November 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm
 
I have a polish person living with me. . He said. . What’s with all the fireworks? I said. . We tried to blow up our own parliament and failed so we celebrate it
Reply
 
 
 Cassandra says:

 November 5, 2015 at 1:18 pm
 
Beautifully and wonderfully said.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 2:10 pm
 
Most JWs (including myself when I used to be one) get hooked on the idea that they will live forever in a world free from sickness, pain, suffering, death, war, conflicts, crime etc. Once they get hooked on this notion, that’s all that matters, they then just accept everything else that they are told as gospel, no questions asked. I have even heard some JWs say that the idea of living forever on earth sounds logical when compared to going to heaven – they reason that God would not have gone through the trouble of creating a habitable planet just for humans plus give man the desire to live forever if he intended otherwise; besides, no sick person has ever said that they are happy that they only have a few months to live.
JWs strongly believe that their paradise earth is the solution to man’s dislike of death and this is what traps them in the religion. A JW told an ex-JW: “Once a JW always a JW you will return to that cult as you get older and your mortality becomes more of a concern to you”.
I think it is up to each individual to come up with their own reasons why they would never return to the JWs. These are just some of the questions that I would ask any JW who wants me to come back to “the truth”:
1. Do you know that the WT once taught that the millions of persons on the earth who would be alive until 1925 would never die? Do you know that the WT once taught that the earthly resurrection would begin in 1925, starting with the return of the faithful men of old such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to earth?
 (Millions Now Living Will Never Die;
 The Way to Paradise 1925 ed.;
 Kingdom Ministry Oct 1920;
 Watch Tower 1922 Jul 1 pg. 217, Sept 1 pg. 262;
 Watch Tower 1923 Apr 1 pg. 106;
 Watch Tower 1924 Jul 15 pg. 211;
 Watch Tower 1920 Dec 15 pg. 379
 Golden Age 1924 Feb 13 pg. 314
 Cover of the 1921 book The Harp of God)
2. Have you ever done your own research to find out the number of persons who have been born over the last 2000 years? If all of these persons were to be resurrected on to the earth, how many persons per square kilometre would there be given that there must also be land for non-residential uses such as food production, forests, hills, mountains, valleys, recreational areas, industrial activity, transportation infrastructure etc.
3. Would this be ecologically sustainable?
4. What would this mean if all of the dead since mankind’s beginning are to be resurrected onto the earth, will they plus all the JW Armageddon survivors fit? Would this be ecologically sustainable?
5. Would the earth look like what is portrayed in the WT’s depictions of the new system – luxury houses separated by many kilometres of parkland, a paradise of sparsely populated tracts of land, filled with smiling children living in mansions?
6. Since no one will be dying in paradise, and given your answers to 2.- 5. above, will there be room for any children given that:
i) the WT’s depictions of the new system show that children will be living on the paradise earth?
 ii) Isaiah 65:17-25 which is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth states in verse 23: “They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them”.
7. Are there scriptures which state that the earth will NOT last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
8. Are there scriptures which state that the earth will last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
9. Were Adam and Eve created immortal?
 If they did not sin, would God have allowed them to eat from the tree of life to live to time indefinite? (Gen. 3:22).
 YES: Why would this be necessary if they were originally created immortal?
 NO: So both if they did not sin and if they did sin, they would not be allowed to eat from the tree of life? What was the purpose of the tree of life then?
 I DON’T KNOW: But they definitely would not have been allowed to eat from it if they did sin. What was the purpose of the tree of life then?
10. Is there anywhere in Genesis that God ever stated that Adam and Eve would live forever, except in regard to eating from the tree of life? Could it be that Adam ad Eve were in fact created mortal and that it would have been the act of eating from the tree of life that would have imparted immortality to them?
11. What is the reason that God gave why Adam would die as stated at Gen 3:19? Would that have been the case whether or not Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit?
12. Is it really because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit why they died? Animals and vegetation did not eat the forbidden fruit, they did not inherit sin yet they die. Could it be that mortality is the natural order of life?
“For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no pre-eminence or advantage for man over an animal, for all is vanity” (Ecclesiastes 3:19).
“All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away.” (1 Peter 1:24).
13. Could it be that the only way that mortal man can live forever on earth is by having children?
14. Will people be dying in the eternal earthly paradise which the WT promises?
The Way to Paradise, pg. 228 states:
“……Some of them used to be undertakers; but since THERE ARE NO MORE PEOPLE DYING, they have had to seek some new occupation…….”.
However:
 i) You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth Pg. 178 states:
“Even under these best of circumstances, some will refuse to serve God. As the Scriptures say: ‘Though the wicked one should be shown favor, he simply will not learn righteousness. In the land of straight forwardness he will act unjustly’ (Isaiah 26:10). So after being given full opportunity to change their ways and to learn righteousness, such wicked ones will be destroyed. Some will be put to death even before Judgment Day ends”.
ii) Isaiah 65:17-25 is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth yet it states that people will be dying in the paradise earth:
vs. 20: “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who DIES at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.”
iii) According to You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth Pg. 183, those Witnesses who survive to the end of the millennial Judgment Day face a further test when Satan is loosed to again deceive humanity (Revelation 20). Following this test, God will destroy those Witnesses who turned away from Jehovah and his government.
15. So then, there will be people dying in paradise even though some of the WT’s publications say that this won’t be the case?
16. So then, there is no guarantee that the JWs who survive Armageddon and those who are resurrected will in fact live forever?
17. How will it be possible that the resurrected could die a second time when the Bible teaches that mankind will die only once (Hebrews 9:27)?
Also, according to Luke 20:34 – 36, resurrected persons cannot die:
“Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and THEY CAN NO LONGER DIE; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.”
18. So then, there will be 2 different kinds of persons living in paradise?
 i) The resurrected who cannot die
 ii) The JW Armageddon survivors who can die according to Isaiah 26:10, Isaiah 65:20 and Revelation 20
19. Even the animals will live peaceably in paradise according to You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, Pg. 164 – how will this happen? Will carnivores be magically changed to herbivores?
Some prospective converts do realize that living forever in a paradise earth is the key ‘tactic’ that is used to reel persons into the religion – I recall while being in the religion, a JW mentioned to me just how puzzled she was by her non-witness relative’s response to her efforts to get him interested in “the truth”; he told her: No, he doesn’t want to live forever. She just couldn’t understand how someone wouldn’t want to live forever. But it certainly worked for her non-witness relative since she realized that once she couldn’t hook him with living forever in paradise, then he just wouldn’t be interested in anything else about “the truth”. This is probably the best way to get rid of JWs when they come knocking – just tell them ‘No, I don’t want to live forever’ and that should end the recruiting for them.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 5, 2015 at 4:02 pm
 
@dee, those are some really good thought provoking questions!!
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 5, 2015 at 9:41 pm
 
Dee, that is what happens when you carry the arrogance of these false prophets. They have some inherent form of entitlement over Gods word to humanity throughout history.
They completely forget that the Bible is composed of 66 individual books that were written FOR us, not TO us. They try to make us drink a pre blenderd version of scripture as you have demonstrated and sadly most will never fact check their twisted take on scripture.
Most of their shunning policies are taken from the Torah, without going the whole way through with what it asks the people to whom it was written to. Instead on focusing on the lessons of integrity and faith, they nit pick at rules that Christ replaced to form their precious discipline rules.
I no longer worry about trying to twist and wrestle with scripture that was not directed at me. My focus instead is on the free gift of atonement with God that Jesus made possible. I know that I should live a moral life and share the Gospel, not because I want to earn a golden ticket with God, but rather in appreciation for the fact that it has already been given to me.
I don’t subscribe to the tin foil hat secret illuminati decipher ring elite Bible readers clique as before, I will not be guilty of the same sin as these new light fabricators. I will not be the guy that turns scripture into high school Shakespeare. I already have my check list, a very simple one.
Live a moral life, check.
 Have faith in God, check
 Have faith in Christ and his redeeming sacrifice, check
 Share the gospel, while I live and let live, check.
 Sorry Mr.Sanderson, you will only lead me to hate Gods word through your tyrannical adulterated take on scripture.
 You seem like a good guy, but the only way I can trust you is if you pick up the torch where brother Ray Franz left it and speak the real truth, Gods word, not what comes out of the minds of seven men.
Hope.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 5, 2015 at 10:29 pm
 
Thanks for the feedback Robert.
A possible slogan for your activist campaign?
“Jehovah’s Witnesses……….Proclaimers of ‘soon’ since 1879”.
Cheers.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
 
Dee,I mean the stones these guys must have, to completely and purposely twist a whole new Bible out of the Bible.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Homer says:

 November 5, 2015 at 10:55 pm
 
@ dee…
WOW….Very interesting points you make. Can’t believe how much selective Bible study we do as JW’s.
Been reading JW Survey for a long time now and I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen enough to tell me the JW is a destructive cult.
I’m a regular pioneer (by title since nobody knows I’ve not been out in field service the past two months) but I’ve reported hours in my report slip. I’m a ministerial servant too and was reaching out to serve as elder until three months ago.
In fact I was so “zealous” I was planning to attend SKE with my fiancee after marriage until three months ago. I read Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom and The Gentile Times Reconsidered. They were eye-openers for me. I realized almost everything I thought I knew about the Bible was a lie (at least as taught by JWs).
Well, I still attended Pioneer Service School for a second time last month. It became very obvious that I wasn’t doing God’s will. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Excitedly I told a friend of mine. He lives about 13 000 miles from me. Told him this couldn’t be the truth as we believe it is. He asked me to report myself to my elders or he’ll do so. I did not report myself….he did.
The worst part? He copied and pasted our entire conversation to an elder in my congregation. My Inquisition began. I knew there was always going to be one “winner”. Two elders met with me after midweek meeting on a Wednesday. I knew already what it was for.
I mentioned my doubts especially 607 BCE….told them even a Watchtower publication admits secular sources say its 587/586 BC…and they dismissed that. The elder my friend reported to told me he doesn’t care about those dates since he hates Mathematics and I should honor what the faithful slave says more than any secular source because they do not understand Bible chronology.
To make the long story short, I weakly admitted I need help from them so I’ll be let off the hook. I’m third generation witness and all my extended families are witnesses too. I’m an only son and I lost my dad (a devout witness till death) about 9 months ago, so my mum does need me a lot.
She’s not educated and has refused to join a local language congregation (English isn’t my first language). She can read English well enough but needs my help to understand it well sometimes. My getting disfellowshipped would be too hard for her to bear so I played the “I need help” card.
My fiancee has been very sad and depressed based on my new attitude to the “truth.” I’ve told her it’s not going to change so maybe she may well rethink our relationship if she needs to. And I’ll totally understand. I love her so much…and if not for my immediate family and fiancee I originally felt like preparing and inserting a dissociation speech into my next public talk, but I can’t.
I may well lose my fiancé eventually, but I don’t wanna lose my mum or two sisters. So I’ll stay. I know it’s hard for my fiancé but I’ve told her I can understand anything she chooses to do.
About a year ago I remember consoling her when she was depressed the CO asked her to drop pioneering (she was in university then)….She planned to pick up pioneering again after school so we could meet our goal of SKE…she has staunchly refused to look at anything anti watchtower even Bible portions that are against JW beliefs.
The elders unanimously decided I’m no longer qualified to serve as regular pioneer and ministerial servant. They read 1 Timothy 3:8,9 for me and told me their decision was based on that Scripture. I was told I have seven days to appeal the decision….have five left now.
Told my fiancé and she’s been moody and depressed since then. Told her I don’t want to appeal and that I’ve been given an easy way out without any judicial punishment. I really love her and we’ve been through a lot together. But right now our relationship depends on what she decides to do, and that’s still okay with me in the end. She said being a witness and preaching makes her happy. I love her, so in the end, I want her to be happy even if it means I’m not part of the happiness.
The verdict is still out. But I’m definitely sure this is not and cannot be the truth and if I had my way I’d dissociate instantly…but I don’t have my way…at least not yet.
I decided to pioneer because I felt I know so much about the Bible and just had to tell people about it. Reality has set in though…because I hardly know all about the Bible as is so beautifully shown in your comments here @ dee and many other comments I’ve read over the past couple of months. And a huge part of teaching people the Bible as a witness is telling them Jehovah’s witnesses are the true religion and the only ones doing God’s will.
I don’t believe that anymore.
Thank you everyone for all you do and have done. I’ll be forever grateful. Thanks too Lloyd.
Reply
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:31 am
 
My heart goes out to you, sounds like a terrible predicament. It could be worse, you have many options now. You need to find advice from someone who you admire and trust who is not part in parcel with this mind controlling cult. Look outside to family or friends who have found a measure of happiness and seek guidance.
Reply
 
 Homer says:

 November 7, 2015 at 12:07 am
 
Thank you Ready to fade
I’ll see how the next couple of months go.
Reply
 
 
 
 redpilltwice says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:29 am
 
Thanks for your story Homer, it’s heartfelt. It’s also my first post here. Quit being an elder end of september. Dropped the A-bomb during the CO’s visit. Couldn’t take the hypocrisy anymore. The rabbit hole was so much deeper than I’d ever expected. My wife and children think the same, that’s a blessing. Now I’m playing weak, just like you. It’s best for me and my family because I’ve already talked too much regarding 607 bce and the handling of sexual abuse victims. I must skip under the radar of my former fellow WT police elders. Wish you all the best regarding your situation!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
Redpill, I assume that’s a Matrix reference, which is perfect. How can any of us allow ourselves to be plugged back in, lulled into a false sence of security only to be used and abused all over again.
I hope we’ve all learned our lesson and keep an eye out for anyone pushing their own “must have religion” or lack of religion, which would just put us into the negative. There is a great book called The Signature of God, which is a resounding fortifier of faith in the Bible as Gods word.
Reply
 
 
 Homer says:

 November 7, 2015 at 12:09 am
 
Thanks Redpill
I’m happy about your family sees things the way you do.
I hope mine will eventually understand I’m not being a tool of Satan but actually saying the truth.
Reply
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:04 am
 
@Homer. Homer that is a difficult situation for you. Very difficult and I do understand.
 It must be torture for you right now but you show a great attitude and very unselfish with your honesty with your Fiancee and how you said whatever she decides is fine with you bc you want her to be happy. Great attitude you have. I was a former long time Elder and when I realized it was a scam I had to step down and fade away. It has been almost 20 years now but my wife has been a hard nosed pioneer all that time and still is today so I had to find other friends and activities to do since from my late teens I became a JW so all of your friends and life gets involve with the JW’s.Try to take it slow and I understand why you cannot at this time completely leave with your Mothers situation etc.Little by Little things will get better. It is amazing that a religion has that much power over us isn’t it? How they effect our families and they use fear to keep people in the ORG instead of love.
The fact that you shared some feelings with that Brother and he turned you in to the Elders in your ong for “EXPRESSING” yourself is the same as Communism. That is what people did in Soviet Union and/or East Germany. If you were caught expressing yourself or NOT towing party line you would be reported to the party!
 Then they would send you to a “RE-EDUCATION CAMP” to brainwash you again and make sure you thought what they wanted you to think. The Motto is TRUST NO ONE and in reality it is not much different in the WT. They will report you to the Authorities ( Elders ) Ihad a similar situation myself Homer in that I did not want my family to shun me so I faded and I did not want my children shun me.
 Today only 1 of my 3 kids are JW’s. the others faded and we talk about it among us. The wife is still pioneering and everything turns into an argument if you bring up the flip flop changes or weird teachings and duff prophecies of the WT.
 You will be fine Homer. It will just take some time. All the Best
Reply
 
 Homer says:

 November 7, 2015 at 12:05 am
 
Holy Connoli,
Thank you.
I’ll take it all gradually. My fiancé told me she’ll decide in the next couple of days, so I’ll see how it goes then.
I told her I’m expressing how I feel now so that she wont feel I tricked her into marriage. So want her to make her choice.
It’s Saturday morning here and three months ago I’d be on my way to field service now. But I can’t do that anymore.
Sorry about your wife. It’s sad but true that some witnesses will never wake up.
Best wishes.
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:25 am
 
@Homer
 I’m so happy and sad for you as we’ll friend. I’m still on the inside but haven’t been identified yet. The John Cedars youtube channel has a fantastic tutorial on how to slowly fade out without raising too many alarms if that is your goal.
By staying I’ve been able to lead others to important ex-jw articles without giving myself away and then build on that with healthy eye opening conversations on what ex-jw’s have figured out. I read the Bible more than ever now as I no longer feed off of the Faithful Slaves spiked table and do not wish to starve out spiritually. The letter Paul wrote to the Colosseans is a constant true North for me that reminds me what my focus should be on.
I would suggest you increase your own reading and constantly share in conversations of scripture with your mother as your participation in different “theocratic” activities fades down. These conversations should lead your mother to a greater zeal in Gods word, one that trumps that, which she has for the GB and also reassure her of your faith in scripture.
Remember 1 Timothy 2:3,4
“This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”
Pray over the matter, tell God what your plans are and where you’ll need help. If anyone knows the truth about this cult, its him. Make your new religion your own personal relationship with God in the light of scripture, not books and magazines about scripture.
True the Bible states that all scripture is beneficial and I agree, but your going to have to figure out and perhaps write down those few things that truly do apply to you. In this new personal Church or congregation you will have to be a regular attendee, because your faith in scripture will dwindle away and eventually die.
 You have seen for yourself what organized religion does with Gods word. The right church can be a wonderful blessing that brings us closer to God. The wrong church can be just the opposite. Whether or not a particular church is “right” or “wrong” depends on whether or not it helps YOU. It might be the right church for you and the wrong one for me. However, none of us have to go to church to be saved. All we have to do is seek a relationship with God through Christ. If going to church strengthens that relationship, by all means, go. If it does not, put that same time and energy into something that does strengthen it, like simply talking to God through prayer.
Remember, you are already saved and God loves you unconditionally. Yes, unconditionally. Christ died that all might live. Yes, we are called to live in the image of Christ, but God created us as human (fallible) beings and does not reject us for what we do. Our repentance immediately brings His forgiveness. Even without repentance, God loves us, though He may not love our actions or thoughts or words.
 How different from the anti biblical auto shunning policies of this doomsday cult.
 Welcome to the truth
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:23 am
 
That wonderful advice. I think I am going to use my King James Bible that my parents bought me when I was confirmed into the CoE. I was 13 then. Not coerced or threatened. Not told I would die if I didn’t…. My love for God was pure and from the heart then. Thanks Robert :)
Reply
 
 
 Homer says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:58 pm
 
It just didn’t feel right that JW feel they’re the only ones who understand the Bible. As if it were written to them.
So all these past centuries nobody understood the Bible? Pathetic reasoning!
I had never believed we’re the only ones who will be saved and I never preached that. I remember an unbaptized witness roommate telling me that there are people out there in churches more devoted to God and who were better than the average witness. I agreed with him wholeheartedly without trying to do “mental gymnastics” on him.
About two weeks ago here I heard a brother comment that the worst witness is better than the best “worldly” person as an encouragement for sisters to marry only in the lord. I could only shake my head in disgust.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:20 am
 
I would never marry a witness…. maybe one who has woken up. At least that way we could have a belief in God without the balls and chains of organised religion.

 
 
 
 
 markie says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:40 am
 
What a friend. I think Geoffrey Jackson should be removed too. He said that it would be presumptuous from him to assume that the GB is God soul mouth piece on earth. If I said that I would be removed too.
 I am in a similar position as you. My wife is a pioneer and constantly takes my children in field service. Which is fine.
 I think one should never take what the GB says as the absolute truth. First mistake of most people on this website. The apostles were wrong and they had Jesus to talk to. The GB are just presumptuous imperfect men that’s why I did what I wanted to do about education etc….There is no religion on earth that is perfect. I am one who hopes there is a god out there somewhere and hopefully he will return his attention back to the earth someday. So what I do is concentrate on helping and being friendly to those in my congregation that are on the fringes. That’s how I copy with all the stupid people at the hall.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:24 am
 
Interesting point you raised markie! You mentioned G Jackson’s odd comment about not presuming that they are the sole channel of God right now on earth. Boy oh boy what is it the elders trot out when they are on a witch hunt? Is it not something like “Do you think the GB are God’s spirit directed org?” if you say yes then aok , if you say no You are for the chop. So where does that leave Mr Jackson. He implied there may be others God is using. If so God is compromised or he is ummm. I wonder what his judicial will sound like. Would make for interesting reading. ruthlee
Reply
 
 markie says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:31 am
 
He compromised himself. Plain and simple. Yet he ill judge other people. Like the bible says never put your trust in earthling man. And that includes them.

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:14 am
 
ruthlee,
The context of Jackson’s words are that it would be another JW that could be the mouthpiece. Of course, this individual would have to time their revelation to match perfectly with the gb’s or they would be disfellowshipped for running ahead of God’s chariot!!
Jackson is not stating that a non JW could be a channel for God.
The bible says clearly that anyone can be a mouthpiece for God. Anyone who loves is in union with God and with Jesus Christ. 1 John 4
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:18 am
 
Really feel for you Homer. When you sit and listen to the stuff that comes from the platform it just makes you realize it’s not the truth.
 Your fiancee has to walk her own path and that is so generous of you to let her do it. She may eventually take another look on her own at what is being taught. It’s so frustrating to know how many are trapped within the Borg. just so we don’t loose our family or friends. That in itself tells us how cruel it is.
 Hang in there dear one. You have new friends in your corner now. Many in the same situation as you. Big hug.
Reply
 
 Homer says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:45 pm
 
So true Tara….some witnesses will actually never wake no matter what evidence there is. I can only hope my fiancé isn’t like that. But I can’t force my opinions on her.
It’s some consolation to know I’m not alone. Many others are trapped too.
Big hugs too
Reply
 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
Homer,
You are indeed like Odysseus on an odyssey!
There is one rule to follow in your situation and that is to be loving.
I hope that your fiancé comes to understand and appreciate your decisions. She is lucky to have someone like you in her life.
In the short term, follow my patented formula – praise “Jehovah God’s spirit directed organisation”
Praise the elders (flattery is a powerful weapon).
Say nothing negative about “The Truth”
This will give you some time and room to breathe.
Be there for your Mum. I lost my Dad to cancer 4 years ago, so I have some idea what you are going through.
I hope that we can help you in this very trying time. We do want to.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Homer says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:32 pm
 
Excelsior….Sorry about your loss. My dad died from diabetic complications. Suffered a stroke. Actually died in my arms.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Homer says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:38 pm
 
Thank you everyone for your kind and encouraging words. They were the best gifts I received yesterday.
The elders told me yesterday that I will no longer be in charge of literature in the congregation anymore. I was supposed to read paragraphs during Watchtower study on Sunday but I was told not to worry about it anymore.
I really can’t wait for the announcement that I’m no longer serving as ministerial servant and regular pioneer. They were shocked when I told them I won’t appeal their decision to review my qualifications. The look on their faces was: “This dude is really spiritually weak.”
I feel much better now. I had volunteered to go to an unassigned territory over here all of next week. I was told I can’t go anymore (still happy of course).
I know when the announcement is made, everyone will suspect immorality as usual to be the cause of my “downfall”. That’s their business. I don’t care about that.
As for my fiancé, I asked her some thought-provoking questions: “What if you later wake up and realize you’ve been living a lie all along? What if you’re married to an over-righteous elder by then who will never understand the pain and anger you’ll feel then? Will you ever forgive yourself for letting me and our years together go because of Watchtower?” She was speechless. I continued: “I want to be there for you when you wake up. I want to walk that path with you when you choose to do it. I want to help make the process less painful and frustrating for you.”
I believe she’ll see through it all someday. But that’s merely wishful thinking and it’s entirely up to her. I’ve told her several times that whatever she decides to do, I’ll respect that. Time will tell the tale.
As for my mum and siblings, I believe it’ll be a slow process. But I’ll be completely patient with them.
For me, going to meetings now is torture. I can literally pick apart everything they say there. It’s sad that after the announcement everyone will be sad and feel pity for me since they were all looking forward to my qualifying to serve as elder (been a ministerial servant for six years now…since I was 18). And I was so close to being appointed elder. Doesn’t matter anymore to me.
For now, I’ll play the “I need help” card perfectly whilst praising the organization for being “Jehovah’s sole channel for survival.” My acting skills are not bad…Lol…I’ve been in several convention dramas (part of why I’m very popular among the witnesses in my city) so I’ll put my skills to good use.
Thanks again everyone.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 1:59 pm
 
@Homer
I see you have received lots of encouragement and suggestions about your situation. You certainly have the right attitude as that is the key thing that will help you deal successfully with the situation. I am glad that you have realized that the elders’ treatment of you is nothing but a game because that’s what it really is and you seem to be playing along quite well.
Don’t mind those elders. They consider their reality to be the ONLY reality. The GB has won their loyalty by flattering them with niceties:
– the spirit-anointed overseers or bodies of elders are the angels referred to in the seven letters of Revelation 2 – 3 (Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand pg. 28 – 29);
– elders will be ‘princes in all the earth’ in the new system of things (Psalm 45:16).
Their stripping you of your privileges was just a way to coerce you to recant as they really thought that you wanted those privileges badly. They are shocked because they thought that losing your privileges would be such a blow to your ego that you would abandon any doubts which you may have about the organization.
I know the disgust you feel after realizing that you have been fed lies and would therefore want the congregation to hear directly from you the reasons why you are disassociating as the elders certainly aren’t going to disclose these reasons to the congregation. But as you have realized you would risk being cut-off from your family (you may find the following suggestions on how to exit the cult gracefully without being announced as disassociated, to be of interest if you have not already viewed this info: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/index#wiki_exit_guide ; scroll down to see the Exit Guide).
What a shame that you will have to subject yourself to torture just so that you won’t be cut-off from your family for leaving the cult. Leaving a religion should never mean losing your family. You should never be punished for exercising your fundamental right to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Apparently only the JWs are entitled to these freedoms and no one else. They are quick to cry foul when they are not allowed to exercise these rights.
I am sure that you have been discovering that there is quite a bit of information available to help persons free their minds of the JW cult. One book which I have found to be of interest is the book by M. James Penton: Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah’s Witnesses, 3rd. edition.
 One can clearly see from reading this book that what the JWs call “the truth” is nothing more than a permutation and combination of doctrines that existed prior to and during the time that their founder Charles Taze Russell was alive (I suppose God’s Holy Spirit told Charles Taze Russell which permutation and combination of theologies to choose. LOL!).
Do hope that your fiancé and other family members will come around with time.
“Patience is bitter but its fruit is sweet”. Aristotle.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Vivian says:

 November 5, 2015 at 10:38 pm
 
Intellectual honesty. That is what it all comes down to.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:46 am
 
We all remember Jones town suicide from the Religion of Jim Jones where over 900 followers drank the poison laced Kool aid and committed suicide together around maybe 1980? Everyone agrees this was a CULT. I found a intriguing comment from a survivor of that tragic event and when you read it tell me EXACTLY what current religion it reflects? Here is th e quote and where you can find it. To me this is EXACTLY what the WT religion is.
 Here is a chilling quote everyone needs to ponder:
“…When our own thoughts are forbidden, when our questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished; when contacts & friendships outside of the organisation are censored, we are being abused for an end that never justifies its means. When our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger. When we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love, we are in a cult.”—-Deborah Layton, Jonestown survivor. (from the book: Seductive Poison, page 299. Anchor Books, New York, 1998)
You never know you are in a cult until you try to leave
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 6, 2015 at 7:58 am
 
You know? When the watchtower society and the leaders get to this point in this day and age of free information where they are appealing to people as ‘sheep’ to come back, then the GB is in a real state of denial and delusion. This ‘sheep’ and ‘rye grass’ stuff is just so pathetic to say the least. Charles Russell, Joe Rutherford, Nate Norris, and their minions were fairly cleaver with an audience that was kept in the dark for so long. If Mark Sanderson, Tight Pants, Splane, and animatron Lett are any indication of those running this organization, then we have no reason to worry that this organization in a tail-spin downward, readying to crash. These ‘personal stories’ between Sanderson’s pleadings are a real production too, looking more like an infomercial. Again, pathetic. The only people that would lap that stuff up are people willing to shut down their brains and say, ‘hey, my head hurts, do all the thinking for me.’ Unfortunately, these guys are not only pathetic, but dangerous too.
Would you want to go back to have these circus clowns run your life? Not me!
Reply
 
 
 Baby says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
 
For all of you.
 Dismiss your concerns the Bible say: 1peter 5:7 ”while you throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.”
John 6:44 “No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day”
(Ezekiel 34:16) “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”
(Psalm 119:176) I have strayed like a lost sheep. Search for your servant, For I have not forgotten your commandments.
 (Luke 21:34-36) “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35 as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36 Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”
meditate on these Bible verses.
listen to the November program of JW.Broadcasting tv.jw.org and tries to hear the voice of Jehovah your God
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:23 am
 
@Baby, sorry to tell you but since I “left” Jehovah, my depression has gone. If I wanted to worship Jehovah, I don’t need an organization to do it. We all know those scriptures, so why are you telling us them like we never heard them before?
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:26 am
 
and Baby, to add to my last comment, when I watched and listened to the November broadcast, I didn’t “hear” Jehovah. I “heard” Mark Sanderson. Are you suggesting that Jehovah was speaking through Sanderson or just what were you suggesting?
If you believe that God is speaking through the Watchtower Organization, do you have any proof of that? If so, please let us know and I will gladly return to “Him”, through the Organization.
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:02 am
 
I have and lately he’s constantly patting me on the back. Our relationship has grown exponentially since awakening to the truth. He has truly embraced me mentally and emotionally since I stopped using men to replace his son as mediator in our relationship. I am filling up notebooks faster than I could ever imagine before with clear vision as to whom, what, where he was writing a specific book of the Bible.
Since awakening I have not become lazy in my study of scripture, an apostate in the biblical sense or become rebellious against my creator. I started this new freedom with a tired heart, weary mind and burdened conscious, which God through his word has replenished. Nourishing my faith in him after 30 years of spiritual food substitute.
If you came to this site it is because you also have a heart that knows it needs more and I hope you are brave enough to find the solace and home you need in a personal faith and philosophy that sings to you. One that is between you and God.
Many of us have been working to rebuild our spiritual life and this site with the light it shines on the coven of vampires in Brooklyn, has allowed us to gain traction in these efforts. It has allowed many of us to replace the hot tears of injustice that would stream down our face with tears of joy and hope and a conviction to help others like you come to know the truth about this cult.
 This is where we the healing live out Hebrews 10:24,25
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:32 am
 
@Baby
 The only thing I heard in that jw broadcast was Sanderson’s blather and cult-speak. Not to mention a bunch of syrupy infomercials. I thought I would need insulin after watching those productions. Each subject of the infomercials might as well say, “I so happy that I returned to Jehovah (i.e. the WTS), because reality was much more than I could ever handle.” I agree with @Caroline, show me where Sanderson actually spoke for God and I will gladly return to the fold. For now Sanderson is full of ###t.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
I forgot to add. Yes. I did meditate on those scriptures you presented. My thoughts were that all of these put together have a common theme, “come back else YOU’RE DOOMED!” Have I got that about right? Eh?
If history serves me right, the sun will rise and the sun will set and the wheels on the bus will keep going round and round. It’s time for you to meditate on those verses that were given to you to repeat here. Then, ask yourself, why would these be picked out so uniquely and put together. Get my drift?
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
@Baby.
 My apologies for ranting at you. I should have done this with a bit more tact and concern for you as a person. It just fuels my fire when someone starts quoting scripture. I had enough of that when I was studying and then questioning the WTS philosophy. When I actually had a real question about the doctrine of the WTS, I would only to get a bunch more scriptures thrown at me instead of true insight and proof. There really wasn’t any proof returned.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:50 am
 
Sadly the GB can’t get that through their heads. They have a one size fits all approach to scripture, they take a lot of things literaly, when they were obviously worded and prepared for the people living in that time. Take the opening book of the Bible for example, it sounds like J.K Rowling came up with it. You have to take into account that it is a book written to some recently freed, illiterate, superstitious and completely saturated with Egyptian theology Israelites. Things had to be broken down in wording and illustrations that they would understand. Who better to do this than someone who grew up in those same beliefs. A place where idolatry, which God forbids, was rampant and sorcery or the attempt at it was common practice, to name just a few.
I can no longer stomach anything the GB prints either. I can no longer stomach how easily everyone at the hall laps it up, demonstrating with no doubt in my mind, how unfamiliar with scripture they are. When I read Genesis I focus on Moses opening line to a people who have been duped for so long. “In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the Earth.” That was then and is now, the most important thing they and us have to understand.
The bible is not an IKEA furniture manual with a step 1, step 2, step 3… Approach to explaining the details. All we get is a general idea and nothing more. Same goes with most of scripture. I’ve seen too much in life to be flabbergasted by anything deemed wrong by Bible readers within scripture. These people need to get out and travel more. I just moved to a new city and on our first day here we watch a news report about a cute 9 year old little boy lured into an alley and executed with 8 bullets in his body, all because a relative of his belongs to a rival gang. Lot did this, Noah did that is literaly thousands of years if not more in history’s rear view mirror and such a poor, sad excuse to give up on God altogether.
“God remember that thing you did about the thing, four thousand years ago, which I’ve only read a few verses worth of the details, well, that’s messed up.”
Some people want to see miracles in order to have faith. They want to snap their fingers and have God dance a jig for them. Jesus said these would get nothing more than the sign of Jonah, meaning they will see scripture fulfilled regardless of their doubts.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:23 am
 
Baby,
Thank you for your genuine concern for us all.
I have no intention of returning to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The scriptures you quote have no resonance with me.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:44 pm
 
@BABY, i DID LISTEN TO IT AND THE ONE THING i KEPT HEARING WAS RETURN TO THE “organization” AND JEHOVAH AND HIS ORGANIZATION. THEY KEPT PUTTING THE WORD ORGANIZATION IN THERE WITH GOD LIKE IT IS ONE And the same. Organization, organization, Organization, if they repeat it enough
 they want you to believe it. They are good at propaganda.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:33 pm
 
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you…….
Reply
 
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:50 am
 
I absolutely hate it when a witness tells me to return to Jehovah – I have never left Jehovah.
What i have left is a self serving, rule oriented, pharasaical, money hungry corporation, that destroys families, turns people into clones, and that tells people “witness religion first – everything including family – second.
I feel much closer to God now than I did when I was a witness. So please do not tell me that I have left Jehovah. In my opinion the witness religion has left Jehovah and now they worship money and prominence.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:04 am
 
Amen, Rob
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:37 am
 
Amen Rob and Robert. I can honestly and truthfully say that when i divorced jehovahs witnesses in my head , my heart became free. NOt for everyone but i love my God and he listens and makes me happy. It,s a joy to read every day his words to me NO interpretation from some old men no rules no evil consequences It,s all a bit unconditional really. If this is what being an apostate is then bring it on Jesus. I,m home not left or abandoned and I know there are some broken souls out there and we want to help you see and feel loved even if its just a few kind comments on this site. All of us have each other and it does not matter what we believe but for me I have found God and I am not going anywhere. ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 Sister drifter UK says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:41 am
 
I cannot agree more.
 The assumption is that in stepping back/ separating / leaving or whatever we want to call it – is that we have ‘left Jehovah’.
It is also assumed that it has been done easily with a cavalier attitude and not caring.
 That it is because of weakness and a love of ‘the world’.
That you are miserable and unhappy and lonely with no real friends.
 Actually this is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do.
 And I have had to do it.
 It’s very difficult to leave- that’s why so many who leave messages are still making a pretense at being in.
 I pretended for years.
Now I have had to have a reply up my sleeve for anyone who sakes why I don’t go to meetings etc
It’s very hard not to be drawn and it is best not to be because it rarely gets anywhere.
As a group ‘we’ (I still say that) culturally feel we have the right to ask very personal questions as to faith or belief. We are trained to do so – to ask complete strangers how they feel- do they pray? Etc
It’s very hard to be on the receiving end of that sort of questioning because we don’t tend to ask each other anything because it’s is assumed that we all believe it.
So when you suddenly find yourself in the position if your friends and family asking you why it is good to have a well rehearsed answer that politely shuts them up.
I tend to say ‘this is a very personal matter that I don’t want to discuss’
But I havnt yet had a visit from the elders so that might be different.
Actually they have been very considerate in allowing me to drift without the slightest interest.
I stopped going to meetings months ago- actually over two years since I went on a Sunday and 6 months since mid week – 5 years since reporting and no one has said a word to me, and that’s after being baptised for over 40 years!
Quite amazingly attentive as shepherds.
Actually at some point during that time I think I could have been pulled back in…….the November broadcast was quite a pull- it will work on some.
Rambling on a bit – sorry.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:16 am
 
I don’t much think you’re rambling. In my opinion, you’re thinking. That is something that is forbidden of a witness. Look at the post from @baby, no compelling arguments, no proof, no insight past these bible verses. You, on the other hand, offer thought provoking reasoning and questioning. Something that is far beyond the allowable norm of witnesses.
All of us that have come out of the cult indoctrination, have come out because they did think and question. An exercise that has given so many freedom from this dangerous, destructive cult.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:22 am
 
The unjust concept of inherited sin and all its consequences,
 purposely inflicted upon us. Then followed by the mandatory
 acceptance of a human sacrifice in order to be purged, is
 precisely what gives the Borg, the Catholic Church and all the
 rest, their power to control people.
When I see some one who’s life is blighted by some awful
 deformity or disease, supposedly as a direct result of the
 curse. I just cannot buy into the idea of an all wise, all loving
 God. ( Is that the best an omniscient mind can come up with? )
It would be totally wrong of me to deny others their right to
 believe these things, and I do not do so. I just submit these
 comments as a counter balance to the evangelical references
 that are appearing here. Which imo keep people trapped
 in these domineering religious systems.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:50 am
 
OK, Ted, we’ll let God be wrong so that you, who have figured it all out be right.
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:59 am
 
Robert67,
I presume that you have absolute proof that your God exists?
No?
Then stop using passive aggressive attacks against us atheists, please. It is utterly unchristian and detracts from your otherwise interesting comments.
Are you going to explain scripturally why it is “loving” to allow innocent people to age, get sick and die? No! Instead, you offer a comment dripping with sarcasm, in an attempt to belittle Ted.
I expect far, far better from a Christian, Robert, I really do. Where does it say in the bible that a Christian should be sarcastic and dismissive of others?
You have chosen to believe in Christianity. I have no problem with you deciding for yourself what you choose to believe.
Please allow Ted and I, and every other atheist, to have the same right to decide.
We should be able to work together to help people who have been seriously harmed by a cult. We should be able to agree to disagree. I hope that we will be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:49 pm
 
Sorry if it comes off offensive. It is not meant that way, it would be unchristian of me not to defend Gods word. I would appreciate it if bigoted comments directed specifically at the God of the Bible, out of the millions to choose from, would stop. As you can see many of us still have absolute faith in the God of the Bible.
I’ve buried my Grandparents, My father who died at just 51, my baby brother who was hit by a truck at 17, I know death. As an Atheist I would think that you would be most at peace with it, as Neal Degrassi points out, it is one of the benefits of not believing in God. There is no hook up on checking out as he says. Therefore, why obsess or try to milk a mia culpa from scripture as if every last one of us, our parents and children won’t face it at any given moment.
Again, I apologize if my response comes off harsh. It isn’t meant to insult, but to deflect an unnecessary slur on the God of many of this sites posters. The alternative is we continue to post God is an a$&& comments and members like myself keep speaking up, because, make no mistake, speak up we will.
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:06 am
 
Robert67,
Thank you for your apology. It is accepted.
I thought that we could all benefit from looking at St. Peter’s words in 1 Peter3:15
“Quietly trust yourself to Christ your Lord and if anybody asks why you believe as you do, be ready to tell him, and do it in a gentle and respectful way” Living Bible Edition
It would do us all good to remember to be gentle and respectful, regardless of our personal beliefs.
Also, the words of Jesus himself have relevance here
“Don’t criticise, and then you won’t be criticised. For others will treat you as you treat them.”
Matthew 7:1,2 Living Bible Edition
I do not believe in any god or gods whatsoever. All gods are equally unlikely to me. The fact that your God is a subject of discussion is because the cult I was once part of hijacked the bible and Christianity to further its own agenda. I bear no particular malice to your God, Robert.
I have never made a bigoted comment about your God, Robert, and neither has anyone else.
Your God is quite capable of defending himself. He does not require you to defend him, as he has appointed his Son over heaven and earth. It is Jesus Christ, in your belief system, who defends the name and honour of God, not you or any other Christian.
I hope that this will see the end of passive aggressive, sarcastic comments directed at atheists.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:18 pm
 
@Robert67
I believe that the only way that one can find their own truth, is by listening to all sides of the story, all angles, all perspectives, all viewpoints. It is for refusing to do this why I ended up in the JW religion only to discover that it nothing but BS. I have vowed that this will never happen to me again and that I must always listen to all viewpoints, all perspectives, all angles, all sides of the story and find my own truth. This is why I believe that both theist-exJWs and non-theist ex-JWs must be allowed to express their issues with the WT’s teachings on this site. It is up to the individuals who visit this site to do their own research, come to their own conclusions and find their own truth.

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:28 pm
 
Robert 67,
How does one become a member of this site?
You refer to yourself as a member. The banner to the right of the screen refers to all of the comments as being readers comments. We are also referred to as guests.
Do you have any official capacity on this site? I must confess to being confused.
If you are a member on this fine site, then, in the interests of balance, it would be fitting for an atheist to be a member too, would it not?
Could you please clarify your involvement with this site? How does one become a member?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:10 pm
 
Robert, I used to think it would be interesting to debate you on the subject of God’s existence and the validity of the Bible. However, I’ve since realized that 98% of my time would have to be devoted to the drudgery of pointing out the flaws in the METHOD you use to defend your position. It’s just endless misdirection by way of weak attempts to ascribe nefarious motives to those who disagree with you, and constant attempts by you to mislabel the simple, honest assertions of our opinions as “slurs”, “bigoted” and “ridicule” (among other things). As I’ve said before, I hope that even the believers on this site notice your unfair tactics, and are disturbed by them.
None of us are looking for a mea culpa in the Bible. We are simply needing evidence that supports the assertion that the God of the Bible is a God of Love. You’ve previously openly stated an unwillingness to consider the brutality perpetrated by God in the OT. But, even venturing into the NT, one finds that God’s solution for mankind’s woes is to have His son brutally murdered so that WE can be forgiven for the fact that some distant relative of ours ate fruit from the wrong tree. We have to disconnect ourselves from our own merciful hearts and rational minds to believe that that is the ultimate act of LOVE. That is, by the way, exactly the same kind of disconnect we had to employ to enable us to believe the Org had the truth.
And then when you position yourself as Defender of the Faith by assuring Excelsior “speak up we will” as it pertains to standing up against those making “God is an a$&& comments”, you’re failing to see that it was largely your own blatant disregard for the posting guidelines of this site that prompted Ted to write his respectful comment in the interest of adding a little balance to the overall conversation here. Then, Excelsior defended Ted against your snarky, disrespectful reply. So again, to portray yourself as the one who was thrown into a defensive position here is a bit of a stretch.
I’m not sure how you get away with persistently posting comments that are “evangelical in nature”. Many of the other believers here seem to be able to write comments rooted in faith that are respectful and frequently even uplifting to all of us here. Although I think they all look up to you, I believe it is really you who could learn from them.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:46 pm
 
Robert, in my comment above, in the interest of accuracy and clarity, replace the words “…you’re failing to see that it was largely your own blatant disregard for the posting guidelines of this site that prompted Ted to write his respectful comment…” with the words: “…you’re failing to see that your own blatant disregard for the posting guidelines of this site contributed substantially to the comment stream that prompted Ted to write his respectful comment…”
The original wording poorly conveyed my intended point. Accuracy and clarity are very important to me.
Reply
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:56 pm
 
Robert, if a person doesn’t believe in the God of the Bible or the Bible itself, there is no way that they could be saying bad things about the God of the Bible.
We who don’t believe in the God of the Bible, don’t blame Him for anything at all but if you want to believe in the God of the Bible, we have no problem with that but Ted is absolutely right in that the concept of inherited sin from Adam and Eve has been a tool of religions for thousands of years to control people through religion and redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ.
So, rather than just believe that we are all born in “sin” like the Bible says, we should be shown some kind of proof that the Bible is perfect and from a perfect God. If there are mistakes and contradictions in the Bible, than the Bible has no control over us. We should be shown some kind of proof that the Bible really is “inspired” of God. Just itself saying it is “inspired”, doesn’t make it inspired of God and no reason to believe in it.
We have a hard time believing in God. If you can supply some kind of evidence, we could believe in Him.
Please don’t say that we are saying bad things about somebody that we don’t even believe in. It’s like we are saying bad things about the tooth fairy when we or you don’t even believe in such a person. How could you be offended? I personally don’t believe in the Bible but when people bring up the Bible and how much they love God etc. I will bring up all those scriptures in the Bible that tells me that if He really does exist, He has to be the worst kind of criminal mind that ever existed. Anybody who did all the things that the God of the Bible told the Israelites to do, would be thrown in jail in any country in the world today, even in the worst countries.
I used to believe in God too and dismissed all the bad parts of the Bible. I believed that he answered prayers but now I see that if he exists, He lets innocent people die and saves bad people, whether or not they pray.
I would personally prefer to believe that He doesn’t even exist than to think that He doesn’t care about innocent people.
If there really is a God that exists, then he should answer prayers and those prayers would have to be supernatural. In other words, things would have to happen that could not happen by any other means, except by supernatural means.
When Ted or anybody makes a comment that makes them question the existence of God, it should not have to be defended by you or anybody. If God exists, He doesn’t need to be defended by you or anybody. He should be able to defend Himself.
All my adult life, it was drilled into me about all that God has done for me and how I owe my life to Him for all He has done for me etc. etc. But religions use that concept of inherited sin to control us by making us feel guilty about even being born or taking a breath or eating a meal and that just by being born from Adam and Eve we “deserve” death.
I hear that all the time from my husband and I have to ask myself, “what did I do to deserve death?” just by being born? Nothing. I didn’t kill anybody so I don’t deserve death.
Reply
 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:27 am
 
Well said, Ted!
It makes no sense for a “loving” god to punish unborn children for the sins of Adam and Eve.
No sense at all.
Did any of us eat this forbidden fruit? Did any of us have any say in that decision? And yet we grow old, get sick and die! Utterly ridiculous!
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:51 pm
 
Ted you and i may see things differently but i do like your counter balance because us religious ones don’t always take the nastier side of religion as valid. It is a bit easy to gloss over and just accept the lovey dovey stuff. So thanks for you last post it made me think and conclude this is not as simple as it seems. note to Excelsior thanks for your point on my g jackson ramble I think you are right i misconstrued his ideas by his words. Nevertheless Mr J still speaks rubbish! ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Anna Adam says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:38 am
 
This is what I came up with John:
Hi Sis,
 Hope you’re feeling better. I have the flu myself.Sorry it took me a little while to get back to you. I do love & miss you very much. I miss how close we were. My arms are always open to you. I have been doing a lot of research lately.
 Being baptized at 15 yrs.old is really too young to make a lifetime commitment . Even getting married at 15 or younger is too young to make such a decision but dedicating your entire life to a religion that you live by daily , which is the most important , is an extremely big decision .
 So now as an adult I’ve been doing a lot of research . Mom gave me the new Bible & the latest magazines. Using the new JW Bible, I
 appreciate these scriptures:
 1Thes.5:21-“Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine.”
1Peter3:15-“but sanctify the Christ as Lord in your heart always READY TO MAKE A DEFENCE before every one who demands of you a reason for the hope you have but doing so with a mild temper & deep respect .”
Col.4:6-“Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near.”
Prob.14:15-“The naive person believes every word but the shrewd one ponders each step.”
These scriptures are encouraging to me . I know you’re familiar with them because you were always good about deeply studying.
 I enjoyed the JW broadcasting for Nov.
 You were right it did make me cry & I do miss us studying together too.Seems like we can discuss some of the things we are learning together now.
 I don’t want you to think I’m being negative but I do have a few questions.
 In the video released on JW .org. March 2,2014
 On the Philippines typhoon Haiyen the brothers were in the direct path of the typhoon when it struck Nov. 8,2013 & they knew it would cause tremendous damage.The branch office showed a map in the video of the path & told the brothers to evacuate . I just can’t help but wonder what were those brothers doing having a meeting the night it hit instead of evacuating.
 43 people lost their lives in that Kingdom Hall .
 In the Nov. Broadcast ( the typhoon of the Philippines ) was great that the brothers came in with big trucks full of literature , supplies & some tents.
 When I saw Broatcasting #10
 They brought out that Jehovah’s Organization would not approve of child sex abuse .
 I couldn’t help but think of Darlene.
 In the Watchtower Mar. 3rd, 66 it said “Should falsehood & corruption be exposed? Therefore it is right & proper to speak out strongly against falsehood & corruption. A person in imitation of Jesus & has the courage to do so deserve attention & respect.”
It was so sad for Darlene she had the courage to go the Gov.Body & report her brother-in-law & brother for raping her . All they got was being removed as Elders. They treat her horribly still to this day & they are all J.W.’s.
 That was one of the articles I shared with her on my C.D. Rhome, that I still have by the way.
 She really appreciated that because I was one of a few people who supported her.
 Also the Awake 4/8/99-(talking about the Catholic Church) said”Imagine the heart break of parents who discover when it’s too late that their children have been abused by trusted Clergymen or even a family member. Does my Church tolerate or cover up child abuse?”
I could relate to this . A family member in the J.W. religion. Our own my sister.
 I’m not saying that all Congregations of JW. have child molesters, but I know of 4 personally .
 I unbelievably , saw on Dateline that there’s
 thousands of child sex abuse cases against Jehovah’s Witnesses in the courts. They’re having to pay millions of dollars of cases they have lost.
 Then I attached 5 newspaper articles showing the amounts of $’s to each victim.
Her response …..”you can’t believe every thing the media put out there….. She said all the things they’re taught to say. I wasn’t to surprised but she reached out to me first so I wanted to try & reach her the best way I could hoping something might spark her attention. Wow ! Amazing how indoctrinated she is.
 Anna Adam
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:00 am
 
Anna, its only a question of time now before most witnesses are free to worship without the GB’s puppet strings. You’ve made your sister aware of just a few wicked things happening within the cult. As this and other websites work to expose the truth about the Watchtower, your sister will eventually stumble into more information that backs what you’ve already stated. Keep asking God for help in freeing your family and keep up with your own study of scripture which will prepare you incase she suddenly wants to listen and be persuaded by Gods word itself. God Bless
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 6, 2015 at 12:11 pm
 
Anna,
Thank you for sharing your correspondence with your sister.
Your comments about personally knowing of four paedophiles moved me deeply. What a terrible situation those poor people are in. I hope that they will seek professional help and receive justice from the superior authorities.
Comments such as yours remind me of why I am here on this site. It is to help bring an end to the suffering of women and children in this disgusting cult. I hope that I shall have a small part in ending the disgusting abuse suffered by so many.
I wish you all the best in your conversations with your sister in the future.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm
 
Anybody else pick up in the broadcast how Sanderson and the other “directors” were dressed when they visited the Philippines to “help out” with the relief efforts? I certainly wouldn’t turn up in a shirt and tie if going to help disaster stricken people. They just seemed to be concerned with filming everything and making people “happy” to have a GB member look in on them.
 I’ll take the opportunity to express my concern of paragraph 10 in this weeks WT study when talking about a personal decision someone makes that we don’t agree with: “we should not quickly judge him or feel that we ought to pressure him to change his mind.” In Spanish it says “we shouldn’t judge” full stop (kudos to the translators there as the English version still makes out its ok to judge, just not straight away). How can the WTS say this when most body of elders and ALL BETHELS prohibit the wearing of beards, the most personal decision there is?!
 Paragraph 12 asks the question “Does my conscience move me to shun sports that are aggressive, competitive, nationalistic, or violent?” So just going by the “competitive” aspect, that rules out most sports then? I can no longer watch footy because I want my team to win??? I have a word for that: Jokers!
 Then paragraph 13 seems to be implying that going to the gym is wrong or any other sport that doesn’t involve other JWs.
 @Robert67 cada día me gusta más tu razonamiento y me pareces un tío muy legal y comprensivo. La verdad es que muchos SI se han vuelto “perezosos” en sus hábitos de estudio porque la WTS favorece la búsqueda de sus publicaciones en vez de la propia Biblia.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:44 pm
 
Gracias, Average Joe. Solo intentando encontrar un equilibrio en el debate sin compromisos en el respeto de las diferentes fe’s presente. En veces salen aves figurativas en la forma de participantes del foro, que solo commentan en el momento oportuno para terminar de derribar la poca fe en Dios que le queda a algunos despues de sobrevivir a este culto. Quieren llevarse a otros a su nueva fe atea.
Reply
 
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 November 6, 2015 at 1:31 pm
 
Watchtower is what it is. All hat. No cattle.
Reply
 
 
 (Sand dollar) says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
My answer if asked to return to Jehovah.
 (I never left.) I still believe in Almighty God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible.
 Maybe (YOU) should return. Return to worshiping Almighty God through Jesus Christ instead of a little group of men who have risen up from among you yourselves….drawing men away after themselves. According to them (The Governing Body) Jesus only mediates with them, not the average Witness. Since Jesus is not your mediator then who is? According to the Governing Body, (they are) through an organization. That certainly is twisted things they are saying. The Bible says Jesus is the only mediator between God and men and he gave himself a (ransom for ALL). (1st Timothy 2:5)
 Jesus is the only mediator between God and all mankind, not also through some elite group who have inserted themselves in the salvation process.
 WAKE UP AND COME TO GOD THROUGH JESUS ALONE.
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:24 pm
 
@ Excelsior, Thanks for your support,
@ Ruthlee, Your conciliatory comment is
 greatly appreciated. Like Excelsior you are
 a peacemaker.
Reply
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:25 am
 
Hi Robert,
Just read your post to Homer…well said! I found it personally encouraging and helpful. As a side point, why do so many (as does Homer) feel compelled to write letters of disassociation? Those are man-made rules and we are under no scriptural obligation to abide by them. We are certainly not obligated to bring harm to ourselves or our families by such action. Besides why make things that easy for the bros.? Regards
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 7, 2015 at 12:14 pm
 
I never thought of that…. What is the understanding on letters of disassociation? When I first began to study, the Witnesses wanted me to write a letter to the church – I never did. I felt it was no ones business bar my own which church I went to.
Reply
 
 
 New Light says:

 November 8, 2015 at 11:18 am
 
Eyes opened, I agree why write a letter and cause added stress for yourself. Writing a letter to disassociate yourself is a man made rule by a group of 7 Clowns. Disfellowshipping, shunning, and etc. is not from Jehovah God. The Watchtower Pharisees leaders will truly answer to God for all the abuse and unnecessary hurt they have caused on so many people. Their time left is truly reduced!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:53 pm
 
@ Dee. Your reasoning is impeccable.
Reply
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:48 pm
 
67 Roberto. Estimado Roberto. No tengo ningún deseo de convertir
 usted o alguien de ateísmo. Verdad es importante para mí
 como lo es usted. Una vez creí tan fuertemente como lo hace
 en un ser divino, me mantenga una mente abierta y estoy dispuesto a cambiar cuando evidencia me resulta mal.
 Yo no soy tu enemigo, y no soy oposición le
 Sólo estoy hablando mi mente. Si no hay ninguna verdad en lo que
 Digo gente que ignora mis comentarios. y no será
 influenciada, pueden tu Dios vaya con usted.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:10 pm
 
@Homer
I see you have received lots of encouragement and suggestions about your situation. You certainly have the right attitude as that is the key thing that will help you deal successfully with the situation. I am glad that you have realized that the elders’ treatment of you is nothing but a game because that’s what it really is and you seem to be playing along quite well.
Don’t mind those elders. They consider their reality to be the ONLY reality. The GB has won their loyalty by flattering them with niceties:
– the spirit-anointed overseers or bodies of elders are the angels referred to in the seven letters of Revelation 2 – 3 (Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand pg. 28 – 29);
– elders will be ‘princes’ in all the earth’ in the new system of things (Psalm 45:16).
Their stripping you of your privileges was just a way to coerce you to recant as they really thought that you wanted those privileges badly. They are shocked because they thought that losing your privileges would be such a blow to your ego and such an embarrassment, that you would abandon any doubts which you may have about the organization.
I know the disgust and anger you feel after realizing that you have been fed lies and would therefore want the congregation to hear directly from you the reasons why you are disassociating as the elders certainly aren’t going to disclose these reasons to the congregation. But as you have wisely realized, you would risk being cut-off from your family (you may find the following suggestions on how to exit the cult gracefully without being announced as disassociated, to be of interest if you have not already viewed this info before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/index#wiki_exit_guide ; scroll down to see the Exit Guide).
What a shame that you will have to subject yourself to torture just so that you won’t be cut-off from your family for leaving the cult. Leaving a religion should never mean losing your family. You should never be punished for exercising your fundamental right to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Apparently, however, only JWs are entitled to these freedoms and not persons wanting to leave the religion – JWs are quick to cry foul whenever they are not allowed to exercise their right to religious freedom.
I am sure that you have been discovering that there is quite a bit of information available to help persons free their minds of the JW cult. I have found the book: APOCALYPSE DELAYED: THE STORY of JEHOVAH’s WITNESSES 3rd edition, to be of interest.
 One can clearly see from reading this book that what JWs call “the truth” is nothing more than a permutation and combination of doctrines that existed prior to and during the time that their founder Charles Taze Russell was alive (I suppose God’s Holy Spirit told Charles Taze Russell which permutation and combination of doctrines to choose. LOL!).
Do hope that your fiancé and other family members will come around with time.
“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” Aristotle.
Reply
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:34 pm
 
I have been away for a while & have just caught up, Hi Homer, i went through similar things, the only difference is i am a bit deeper in than you were, older, older kids, i to hide in the org so as not to loose many family, Friends, we had a situation here where quite a few wrote letters to the branch complaining as to what was happening, then we had the DO,CO visit & ask questions of the servants, all servants expressed the same opinion, nothing happened, except once the generals had left then the real witch hunts began, i thought i had a target on my back, no no i was told, well it didnt stop for me & others, so i stood down, lucky for me i had a family situation that turned into a good excuse, now i miss meetings, havnt knocked on a door in over a year, still report to keep up the charade, they just think i am weak, but still trapped for friends & family. I now refuse to shake the elders hands when at the meeting, due to my beard, some of them don’t even talk to me,
Reply
 
 
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My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
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Posted on November 4, 2015

Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return

Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.
They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.
This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.
Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.
I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…

I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.
Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.
But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.
Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.
 
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The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.


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 Marcos says:

 November 9, 2015 at 8:51 am
 
My family was excited to tell me about the convention release at the time and again with this November broadcast. Albeit via my believing non-DF’d wife.
I happen to be DF’d you see. Not for any noble cause of my conscience mind you. Well I guess you could say that it was due to my conscience and in some ways noble but it just wasn’t regarding my feelings about doctrine but rather my own hypocrytical conduct.
Nevertheless I find it interesting how my family would like to steer me in the direction of these “come home” messages and entirely miss the point that they are not directed a DF’d individuals. The fact is that WT and the GB do very little to help DF’d people because they do not feel responsible for them in the least manner.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:19 am
 
I hear you. My son was df’d 6 years ago and he has never seen hide or hair of an elder. Not that he is upset at this. One of the scriptures they throw at you about associating with df’d ones is 1 Cor 5. We all know it by heart. Someone on here kindly pointed out that it say ‘Quit mixing in company with anyone called a ‘brother’. On asking an elder if my df’d son is still a brother? he said no. So in that regard he is someone on the ‘outside’. Now Jesus himself ate with these ones and conversed with them so who are the GB and the elders to tell us to not. Are they above Jesus? Of course they would say it is the principal – ugh I hate that word.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:31 am
 
@Tara
 Flawless reasoning and very practical.
 Even modern WTS publications admit that we as humans have to show normal human kindness/decency to ALL individuals. The WTS however, generally limits that to exceptional circumstances unfortunately (like a D’FFED person whose car has broken down in the rain and needs a lift, is the example that comes to mind).
 Last time I looked (although this could vary from country to country), it was common human decency (or manners) to say “hello” to someone as you pass them in the street. It’s absolutely ridiculous for the modern WTS to expect ‘avoid total eye contact’ and not to even say “hello”, especially when we know the context of ancient Hebrew/Arabic greetings and how drawn out they were.
 I prefer to use my own God-given criteria of human decency and manners on the subject. Plus a great WT to use to help ‘over-zealous’/self-righteous individuals on the subject is one that you can still find on the latest “WT Library”: w74 8/1 pp. 466-473 Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint
 Toward Disfellowshipped Ones.
“there is a parallel danger… of going too far in the other direction, going from laxity to rigidity and hardness… elders, as well as individual members of a congregation, therefore, ought to guard against developing an attitude approaching that which some Jewish rabbinical writers fomented toward Gentiles in viewing them as virtual enemies. It is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshipped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way.
…not all who slip into a sinful
 way become ‘deceivers and antichrists.’ …
What, however, of the one who has been disfellowshipped for being that kind of person but who thereafter, either at an early point or at a later point in time, gives consistent evidence of discontinuing such wrong practice, stopping it? Can it be said that he or she still “is” a fornicator or whatever type of wrongdoer such a one was that caused him or her to be as “leaven” toward the congregation?…
Since blood and marital relationships are not dissolved by a congregational disfellowshipping action, the situation within the family circle requires special consideration…
As to disfellowshipped family members (not minor sons or daughters) living outside the home, each family must decide to what extent they will have association with such ones. This is not something that the congregational elders can decide for them. What the elders are concerned with is that “leaven” is not reintroduced into the congregation through spiritual fellowshipping with those who had to be removed as such “leaven.” Thus, if a disfellowshipped parent goes to visit a son or daughter or to see grandchildren and is allowed to enter the Christian home, this is not the concern of the elders…
Holding to the Scriptures, neither minimizing what they say nor reading into them something they do not say, will enable us to keep a balanced view toward disfellowshipped ones.”
I thought the penultimate paragraph was very insightful. The elders do NOT have the right to tell anyone what to do within the family circle, full stop, end of!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 11, 2015 at 9:04 am
 
Thanks Joe :) I’m going to go look that article up. I love spending time with my son now. He is a wonderful son and human being. I no longer care what the WT says. He has more humility in him than most of our elders put together.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:53 pm
 
Great Point Tara
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:20 am
 
The “principle” subtitute my belief, my opinion,(pious of course),my right to tell you you are wrong. All coded speech jdubs use. We are seasoned travellers in jw dictionary land.rl
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 11, 2015 at 9:06 am
 
remember those cads we used to play with as kids…. this card trumps yours etc etc. The word ‘Principal’ is used in the same way by the WT. Principal trumps your logic. End of conversation.
Reply
 
 
 
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The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
Posted on November 6, 2015

The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control
The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control

When I was a very young boy, my grandfather died. I don’t know much about his life, aside from the fact that he was a carpenter, a policeman, and a Catholic. He was, in fact, Irish Catholic, and I suspect my father’s family took great pride in their heritage and their faith. It was a disappointment for them that during the pre-1975 years, my father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The invasive control that the Jehovah’s Witness organization had over my parents divided our family. At my grandfather’s funeral, all hope of normality was smashed when my father refused to sit with his brothers, instead electing to place himself at the back of the church, with easy access to the nearest exit.
Why would he do this? His decision was decidedly influenced by the March 15 1970 Questions From Readers, which posed the question

“May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?”
The phrasing of that question in itself diminishes the thinking ability of the reader and transfers control of one’s life to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The article casts aside the faith of the individual, suggesting that attending a church service places a Jehovah’s Witness in serious danger of violating his Christian conscience.

“Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided.”
Only recently did I come to understand the permanent damage that this caused. For the balance of my childhood and to this day, I never got to know my uncles, my aunt, my cousins, or anyone else in the family. In a sad twist on the words attributed to Jesus below, my extended family became strangers who purportedly worshiped God incorrectly, or so I was led to believe.

“Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” – Luke 12:51
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes no apology for splitting apart families; in fact they summon Jesus’ words to reinforce their divisive policies. Luke chapter 12 continues:

“For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”
Undoubtedly, self-imposed estrangement is not the intended meaning behind these expressions, but for the Jehovah’s Witness religion, they mean just one thing:
Blood is not thicker than Watchtower
It has been nearly 40 years since my family was fractured by the policies of this organization. Instead of a softening of rules and regulations, the Governing Body has elected to double down their doctrinal directives, expanding their influence using the power of suggestion and crowd manipulation to achieve control of their flock.
An example of this control is found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study edition. The article “Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah” drives readers to the conclusion that loyalty to the suggestions of the Governing Body is equal to loyalty to God.
We encounter Olga, a Jehovah’s Witness wife and mother who has suffered at the hands of her non-JW husband, a man who “abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.” The Watchtower paints a picture of the stereotypical “worldly” man, a person without redeeming qualities and without Jehovah.
Sadly, his father dies, and Olga agrees to travel with him to another city for the funeral, showing respect for him despite his non-affiliation with Watchtower. But did she truly show this man respect? The article says:

“She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony
 ended.”
Without even addressing the subject of attending a church funeral, the Watchtower suggests that a truly faithful Witness of Jehovah would never step foot inside a church. While this statement is not the subject of the article, the powerful suggestion is nonetheless implanted into the reader’s mind, setting a precedent that must be followed.
Just a few paragraphs later, we are reminded of some of the simple pleasures in life that must be abandoned if a person is to be loyal to Jehovah.

“Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good
 things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them”
The result?

 “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
This heartbreaking story touches me personally. The endless years of alienation from my family and any sense of celebration and happiness were replaced with piles of Watchtower magazines and books that filled my shelves, but left me empty and depleted.
It is difficult for Jehovah’s Witness children to really understand what is happening to them during the formative years of their life. One by one, normal relationships and activities are eliminated, and Witness children are advised that they must be “no part of the world.”
Another way this happens is by abstaining from school activities, including healthy and stimulating sports and clubs. The Watchtower hammers down this point by stating:

“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the
 championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
 out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
For most of us who have lived the life of a Witness child, we understand what this means: no extra-curricular activities, no after school sports, nothing that might steer us away from field service and regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
 Snitching and shunning
Along with behavior modification, Jehovah’s Witnesses engage in one of the most cruel practices in modern society: shunning. The February 2016 Watchtower advances from suggestive behavior control and graduates to full-fledged punishment of anyone who violates the social customs of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members are encouraged to spy on one another, and if the guilty party refuses to confess, the elders must be notified.

“Kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties. For example, you may have definite knowledge that a certain fellow believer is guilty of serious misconduct. You may feel loyal to him,
 especially if he is a close friend or a relative. But if you were to cover up the wrongdoing, you would be disloyal to God. Of course, your loyalty to Jehovah should come first. So like Nathan, be kind yet firm. Urge your friend or relative to seek the help of the elders. If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, loyalty to God should move you to report the matter to the elders.”
In a series of 5 photographs, the Watchtower study article visually demonstrates the process:
1.Observe the social media photo of your friend committing an infraction, such as drinking alcohol at a party where non-Witnesses are present
2.Confront your friend with the photograph
3.Take your tablet to the Kingdom Hall and show the photo to an elder
4.Two elders take your friend into a private room and chastise and counsel her
5.Your friend regains her senses and is soon participating in meetings once again
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower (click to enlarge)
 
The reality is that seldom does the process occur in this manner, with step number 2 usually bypassed. But the encouragement to police each other within the congregation is very real.
Another disturbing practice is shunning, which is not limited to those who have been disfellowshipped from the JW faith. Simply leaving the organization for personal reasons results in the immediate loss of your complete network of friends. And for those who have been formally disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a total and devastating loss.
A woman might decide that this religion she was baptized into at a very young age was not the correct decision for her. But it is too little, too late to change this decision. The Governing Body has decided that her own daughter is barred from fellowship with her. The bond is severed indefinitely, the punishment is very real.

“A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5: 11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote”
There is no greater bond than that between a mother and daughter, yet the Watchtower has managed to produce a doctrinal solvent capable of dissolving the closest relationship known to humans.
I know many Jehovah’s Witness mothers who have been reinstated to the organization, superficially believing they have “returned to Jehovah,” when in fact they just wanted their family back. They walk among the congregation with the permanent stigma of judicial discipline, but take comfort that they have traded public humiliation for the ability to speak and associate with their family.
 The Abraham Principle

“Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to kill his son” – Genesis 22:10
Inflicting harm on a son or daughter is a completely foreign concept to any human with a measure of good mental health. Yet according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the biblical character of Abraham showed the ultimate faith in God when the Almighty required him to stab his son to death on a mountaintop.
Is this really a lesson in faith in God, or could it perhaps be a convenient method of demanding blind obedience?  The Watchtower study article titled “Jehovah Called Him My Friend” suggests that anyone who doubts Abraham’s decision to knife his son is void of faith. The blame is shifted from the perpetrator (God) to the critic:

“There are those who say that God was cruel for asking such a thing of Abraham, and some imply that Abraham’s obedience was blind and unfeeling. They take that position because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.”
I never could grasp the sense of this bible tale. Apparently my faith and understanding are just too weak. We are told that Jehovah called out to Abraham and halted the murder just in time. Why didn’t he apply this same life-saving power moments before the planes crashed, or the tsunami hit shore, or the crazed gunman slaughtered those schoolchildren? These are questions we must all ponder for ourselves.
Separation of church and sanity
Looking back on more than 40 years of loyal association with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I truly understand how damaged my family was by this destructive organization. I can finally validate my own feelings, my internal conscience which always told me that these things are insane:
◾Associate only with Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾Stay away from non-JW church services
◾Avoid playing team sports or joining school clubs
◾Spy on your friends and turn them in to the elders
◾Avoid higher education
◾Shun anyone who leaves the organization
◾Never accept a life saving blood transfusion
◾Do not celebrate anyone’s birthday (or any holidays)
◾Believe that God will kill everyone but Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is increasing its doctrinal control over its members, further blurring the line between religion and personal identity. They have systematically removed individual freedom of mind and conscience and replaced it with a long list of directives, leaving many Witnesses depressed, feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.
This is a prison from which you must escape.
If you share the same feelings, please reach out to someone for help. You can do it anonymously and without judgment. Read, watch and learn as much as you can, and separate verifiable truth from the insanity of indoctrination.
Make this the first day of the rest of your life.
You are now free.
 
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278 Responses to The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost


Newer Comments →
 
 BG says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm
 
I get the birthday and holiday thing, but they will disfellowship you just for saying you don’t believe in doctrine of theirs and they tell you it is xpressions inspired of demons if you have bad information about the organization or dare to say that the society lied about something! They believe they are living in a spiritual paradise, but let me tell you, my exhusband was a jehovah’s witness and it was no paradise. He was emotionally and mentally abusive.
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:30 pm
 
As many of them are because they abuse the concept of “head of the household”, and “submissive wives”.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:00 pm
 
@BG
 JWs must be free to ridicule, oppose criticize and denounce the teachings of other religions yet if someone should do the same to their teachings it is called persecution and a JW will face the consequences which you have stated if they dare to object to the religion’s teachings. You may find the following to be of interest:
***Watchtower 1963, 11/15 pg.688 par. 3; Execution of Divine Judgment upon False Religion***:
“It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see……….To make a public exposure of false religion is certainly of more value than exposing a news report as being untrue; it is a public service instead of a religious persecution and it has to do with the eternal life and happiness of the public”.
Reply
 
 
 
 Driving Force says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
A very well written article, thank you John. I myself was bound for 29 years and it has cost me my marriage.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 8, 2015 at 2:08 pm
 
I spent 12 years and leaving them (Jehovah’s Witnesses) cost me my marriage and dignity. They are now dragging me in the mad as Elders hide behind my ex-wife trying to ruin my career and CV.
Reply
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:34 pm
 
• Believe that God’s kingdom was established in 1914 even though said kingdom has had no significant impact upon mankind in over 100 years.
• Child abuse can be handled internally
• Overlapping generations = generation
These are my honorable mentions of insane things that JWs believe.
Reply
 
 DavidR says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:49 pm
 
“Child abuse can be handled internally”
I like the way Cedars mentions it, the Watchtower treats these crimes as a sin first, and a crime second.
That is why they will not report someone because regardless of the hours of schooling and thought put into professionals that have concluded that there is a high rate of recidivism especially for child molesters, the power of God’s word and the watchful eyes of the elders will help this person to stop committing this sin. Its sick and really egotistical of them.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:41 pm
 
“Believe that God’s kingdom was established in 1914 even though said kingdom has had no significant impact upon mankind in over 100 years”.
This was one of the first thoughts that came to my mind when I started to wake up. I began to wonder: what exactly has Jesus been doing for mankind since he began ruling in 1914? It seemed to me that he is just sitting there twiddling his thumbs, yet there are still wars, conflicts, etc. taking place on earth so what’s the point? Why have Jesus start ruling if he won’t be doing anything about these things?
If Jesus was indeed ruling since 1914, would he not share in the guilt of all the wars and atrocities that nations have been guilty of on his watch, by not exercising his authority to intervene and stop them? And how is it that only the JWs knew that Jesus began ruling in 1914? Why wouldn’t Jesus want anyone else to know about it?
It also occurred to me that if Jesus did begin ruling in 1914 then his coming at Armageddon would make 3 times that he would come yet the Bible teaches that he would come only 2 times.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:48 pm
 
Also, according to the WT, the signs marking the conclusion of the system of things (Matthew 24; Luke 12) prove that Christ is present in kingdom power.
 However, according to Jesus’ own words at Luke 21:31 and Matthew 24:33, the signs marking the end of the age would signify that the kingdom of God is NEAR not actually HERE.
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:42 am
 
1914 God’s Kingdom then?
 then Satan’s chain is too toooo long.
 And all rulers since then are innocent [hitler!!!]
 As the overlord king has permitted them.
Reply
 
 
 
 kofybean says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:36 pm
 
Tell me they didn’t reference Genesis 22:10. “..because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.” My word.
 If the GB told a member to kill, would they do it on faith?
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm
 
In my opinion all of the points made in this article are completely valid and mirror the experience which I had as a witness. Not being able to associate with my non witness relatives and not participating in any sports or extra curricular activities was the norm.
As a fader, I am so glad to be free from the wacky prison that is the watchtower. Unfortunately with friends and family still in the witness religion, I feel that I am always on parole, as when I am around them I still need to be careful about what I say. I guess the stigma from this religion will always be in my life but at least I am no longer shackled under the mind numbing routine that used to dictate my life.
Reply
 
 
 DavidR says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
“My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
So wait, disowning someone who chooses to follow their heart and worship in a way that seems right to them shouldn’t move family members to disown them? What a concept. Its funny how they put these thoughts right next to an article where they then justify having nothing to do with someone who has left the faith.
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm
 
Yup, double standards like there’s no tomorrow.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:29 am
 
@Bart. So true Bart and then they have the nerve to say on their videos and in JW.org that they do NOT SHUN? The video last year from the brother in Finland claimed in an interview that they do not shun and anyone can come and go in the JW religion without persecution. What a crock of lies.
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:57 pm
 
JWs gladly shun family but are quick to claim persecution when their non-witness family members oppose their beliefs. Wonder who is persecuting who?
Reply
 
 
 
 phoenix_Rising says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:49 pm
 
So true – my mother who is active and I am df’d speaks to me on occasion and has been reconnecting with her non Witness Sister. She asked me “Please don’t inform your aunt that you are df’d and that I am not supposed to talk to you or that I haven’t seen you in several years. I wouldn’t want to discourage her progress or it to impact how she views the organization.” To which I replied “Well if shunning is so loving why be ashamed of it.” to which she had no response. Unreal.
Reply
 
 DavidR says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:52 pm
 
I’m soo sorry. Its good that she has her priorities in the right place. I will sacrifice my child on the altar of Watchtower, but I don’t want to tell your aunt cause then it will discourage her. I like how “discouraged” became the code for someone getting a realistic view of the organization.
Reply
 
 
 
 RC says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm
 
Hi,
 Dont know how accurate my information is but jehovah was one of the gods of the jewish pantheon who was primarily concerned with war. When the jewish religion became monothestic they gave the attributes of another god (EL i think )to jehovah and elevated him to the Creator of the universe. During those times human sacrifice seems to have occured to gods. That story of Abraham trying to sacrifice his son may very well be a hint to those practices.
Reply
 
 Paul ngugi says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:23 pm
 
RC, kindly direct me to the link to that info
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:24 pm
 
Hi paul,
 This may serve as a starting point . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:37 pm
 
I’m reading a book now called “the history of the Jews” by Paul Johnson.
 An interesting read that talks about Israel and its God from an archaeological point.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:27 pm
 
I think it is a good idea to read as many books etc. about the history of the Jews/Israelites and their God in order to get a better understanding of the Bible, in particular the Old Testament.

 
 
 RC says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:28 am
 
Hi Garret ,
 Sure will look into the book. Thanks.
 @dee
 I too think it is a good idea to learn about the history of the jews to get an idea about the old testament.

 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:06 pm
 
RC and Paul, this is one of the most interesting videos I’ve ever seen that deals with archeology and the Bible. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
I don’t offer it as something you should blindly accept, but it is fascinating and worthy of consideration, in my opinion.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:30 am
 
Thanks JB ,
 Interesting site . Browsing through it.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Jim Reaugh says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:12 pm
 
I had to read this twice already…and I will likely read it again. It resonates so much with me and my deepest feelings regarding the organization.
 Thank you John, for your candour and honesty. Although the damage is done, you are spot on…we are now free.
Reply
 
 
 will says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:13 pm
 
Unfortunately, my wife and kids (8 and 11) still go. I faded and I haven’t been to a meeting in well over a year, and I have no intention of going back. My wife knows how much I detest the Watchtower, and religion in general. I try to instill independent thinking in my kids. In fact, I took them work with me the other day and I talked to them about not letting people put boundaries on them, not let anyone tell what they should or should not do with their lives (without mentioning the vile, repulsive Watchtower). My wife loves being a witness, but I do think she disagrees with certain issues (i.e. shunning of children and that dangerous suggestion on staying with an abusive spouse). I remember when I started studying and how the Org was defensive about not breaking up families and how the Family Book and various article “prove” that, but now I see clearly this religious is horrible for families. Great article!!!
Reply
 
 Scrubmaster says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:12 pm
 
@Will – Amen. I tell my two kids the same thing. I go occasionally to meetings and assembly days. But I have seen and read way to much in the past few years to truly believe in organize religion anymore.
Reply
 
 Donald duck says:

 November 8, 2015 at 11:58 pm
 
Me too, I have an almost 7 and eight year old… My spouse is deeply entrenched and extremely conservative even by witness standards. I tell my children often, be a good person because you want too,not because someone is telling you too. My stories are long. I was in circuit work for a time. Not sure if this is appropriate, but I really could use some like minded individuals to text with… I use an app called kik, please feel free to text me. My username is lady Grantham =)
Reply
 
 Will says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
@donald duck I think going on this website and seeing other people’s point of view is encouraging (Witnesses made me hate this word, but actually appropriate here). Sometimes you feel you’re the only one, but you’re not. Hang tight. Be true to your beliefs. I’m not sure what your home situation is. Does your wife know how you feel? If she does. Don’t back down, but be kind, yet firm. If you’re “in the closet”, keep checking this site out. I stopped going to the meeting because I was sick and tired of the talks, conventions, Watchtower, the School……….. I rather stay home and watch my toenails grow than listen to another talk or sit through another Watchtower Study.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 John freeman says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:01 am
 
I also am trying to fade .same withy wife .she loves ” the truth” but she also knows somthing is wrong at GB level she does not like the broadcast and wont use a tablet.however she says jah will sort things out .most of my family are in so the only option ive got is fade or have a family breakup. Ive been in 50 years but started to feel somthing is wrong when the GB started to go on about going on line and making an idol out of the .ORG i found out about the child molesting cover up .my faith in the GB was shattered whe s lett said it was fslse stories and apostate driven lies. I still take wife to meetings but am finding it increasingly difficult to sit thru it. I have told her i will have to drop her of and pick up later. I am increasingly becoming more and more exasperated with the GBs unwillingness to soften thier stance on the issues mentioned .you have my sympathy . Be assured you are not alone my friend.
Reply
 
 Will says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:08 am
 
@John Freeman My wife is more than capable of taking herself, but I don’t stop her from going, but I NEVER ask her how the meeting was, because she will know I could care less. The Org has handled the child abuse scandal atrociously. Many lives have been destroyed by the Watchtower’s policy on abuse. If this truly was God’s org, this never would have happened and certainly not have let it go on for as long as it has gone on. God would have “sorted” things out a long time ago.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:27 pm
 
Excellent article. Another reminder of how relatively fortunate I was in that only my inadequate lunatic of a mother was a Jehovah’s Witness. My mother in practice was my grandmother. Nan looked after us children while mum simply waved Awakes and Watchtowers about and spouted all the Brooklyn issued garbage.
For her the JW outfit was a way of reassuring herself that, for all that she could nothing whatever remotely useful, she was, by virtue of being ‘In the Truth’, utterly superior to everyone around her.
Reply
 
 
 Edward May says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm
 
Wonderful article. I’m stepping down as a elder soon. Articles like this give me more encouragement to do what I need to do.
Reply
 
 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:20 pm
 
I’m encouraged by your expression and intention Ed ! I’m sure you will find more peace for your mind and heart after doing so ! It would be honor to represent this or any org. if it would live up to true Christianity .Unfortunately “we” or our org. failed in big scale and now it’s honorable to step down for any elder or MS who has a speck of real Christan conscience asap ! May god give you strength and peace to do so !
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
God bless you Edward, leave behind all forms of participating in this cults ceremonies before they suck all the faith in God out of you. I was an elder for 23 years and could feel a recentment against God building up in me for the things he was making me do( or so I thought). That first meeting after you turn it in will be the greatest meeting you’ve had in years. Tell them the job was giving you stress, anxiety or flat out say its a matter of conscience. Hope your able to help some escape on your way out.
Reply
 
 
 
 Juan Viejo says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:53 pm
 
Excellent article and absolutely true to life. The sad thing is that most converts to Watchtowerism don’t realize that so much is banned or discouraged by the Governing Body. JWs don’t realize that many restrictions they face daily have absolutely no biblical support – or are due to twisted interpretations of non-applicable “cherry-picked” scripture verses that have little or no bearing on our modern day.
Joe Rutherford supposedly revered Pastor Russell and his teachings, but within a span of 20 years reversed practically everything the good “Pastor” taught. Since the 1950s, and again in the 1990s, modern Governing Bodies have deleted or replaced almost everything both Russell and Rutherford taught. And yet they all claimed that both they and their predecessors were “chosen” and “inspired” by Jehovah’s spirit.
I see a time in the not-so-distant future when much of what is taught to JWs today will be either altered or replaced as Governing Body members change. GB members all seem to have a need to leave their own mark on the Society and are willing to replace or rewrite existing teachings that were once the hallmarks and standards that JWs were known for. The Worldwide Church of God went through these very changes in the 1980s and is unrecognizable from its earlier years but still exists along with many long time members. We can already say the same when comparing modern JWs to those in the Rutherford era.
I find it interesting that unlike scientific “theories” that consistently change and move forward as new facts are discovered, JW “truths” seem to be like a roller coaster that goes up, down, around, through switchbacks, and finally off the tracks. Along the way, everyone in their seats holds on for dear life, afraid of being tossed off into the darkness – while all their friends will have to grit their teeth and stay with the train no matter how uncomfortable or endangered they (or their kids) are.
May I respectfully suggest to everyone that they not take that roller coaster ride – or to get off while they still can.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:58 pm
 
It always bothered me too about the account with Abraham, willing to slaughter his son on his “faith” in God’s resurrecting him again like what the Watchtower likes to say. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that God would resurrect Abraham’s son. Abraham was simply willing to kill his son for on the say so of his God, Jehovah. Faith in the resurrection had nothing to do with it. It was all about loyalty to his God, Jehovah.
Are we to have such loyalty to God that we would kill another person like that on the say so of an invisible God that only we can hear?
If that is the kind of person we are, then we’d be considered nuts by any court in the land today but yet, we are to respect Abraham for having such “loyalty” to his God Jehovah? I think not. The man “son of Sam” killed people by listening to voices too. Lots of people kill other people by listening to voices that only they can hear. They are crazy.
It is so easy to say Abraham was loyal and had faith when it wasn’t he himself that was going to die. Abraham didn’t have much faith in God when he was willing to hand over his wife two times to kings (coward) to save his own skin. I don’t like Abraham much and I can’t figure out why the Jews do to this day either.
Witnesses don’t think of Jehovah as the God who asked the Israelites to sacrifice their sons and daughters in the fire (Jeremiah 7:31) because Jehovah stopped Abraham from stabbing his son to death, but yet if a daughter of a priest was caught in prostitution, she was to be burned in the fire (Lev. 21:9) or if a man bought a girl from her father as a wife to the man and after the man married her, if he accused the girl of not being a virgin when he married her and if the parents couldn’t prove she was a virgin, the men of the city were to stone the girl to death and of course ours is the only Bible that implies that Jephthah didn’t actually burn his daughter as a sacrifice to Jehovah.
If only I was still going to meetings now. There are so many things that I would confront the elders with now that I finally figured it all out.
Before, I bought into the excuse that we just don’t know all the circumstances way back then and of course the excuse “it was a different time and place”.
About ten years ago, I bought into the “keeping the congregation clean” crap and turned in a young brother that I saw smoking but at least I did tell him first and told him that if he didn’t talk to the elders about it, that I would be forced to do it.
Now I would tell the kid to run the other way and never look back. Thankfully, he won’t have anything to do with it anymore. I wished I could talk to him and tell him how sorry I am that I did that to him but at the time, I was convinced that Jehovah would not bless the congregation if it wasn’t “clean”.
How stupid I was then.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:15 pm
 
I should have put that that account of stoning a girl that couldn’t be proved to be a virgin is at Deuteronomy 22:13-21.
Reply
 
 
 Albert says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:19 pm
 
I agree with everything you had to say except for the fact that there is an indication in the Bible that Abraham believed that his son would be resurrected. Granted this was written hundreds of years after Abraham’s death and if you don’t believe in God then all this statement would be is the writers opinion.
Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up [his] only-begotten [son], 18 although it had been said to him: “What will be called ‘your seed’ will be through Isaac.” 19 But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:04 am
 
@Albert, if Abraham thought that Isaac was going to be resurrected, then what would have been the point of killing him, if he thought that it was only a temporary death? That doesn’t make any sense.
Reply
 
 Reader says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:04 pm
 
Two points;
 a] Human sacrifice is difficult to prove and ancient religious rites leave no archeological traces; the studies of Robert Graves ‘The Greek Myths’ book 1 & 2 give some practical deductions from myths which have survived, though tedious at times to study [mainly in the footnotes]. It would seem that at the time of the Mosaic law and before Human sacrifice was widespread but not not have been “hollywood” common.
 b] Consider if Goliath was Nephilim, maybe the was fallen angel breeding in ancient palestine.
 I think that maybe Judah ordering the burning of Tamar may have been a fear of a ‘sacred king’ threat to himself?
 Leave it with you…
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:32 am
 
@Caroline
I suppose it could be argued that the test for Abraham was to see if he truly believed that God had the power to resurrect Isaac i.e. did Abraham truly believe that bringing the dead back to life was possible, test him to see if that is in fact so ?????????
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:25 am
 
My curiosity has been peeked and just for curiosness sake,I wonder what size sandal Abraham used? I keep reading the account, but can’t find that or any accounts of his doubts, hobbies, taste in music, preference in women; dark, fair, mix of both? I also read the entire Abraham account in about 25 minutes, does anyone have a copy of the other 175 years? No? Well, I guess we know all of his thoughts anyway.
Interesting that the Jeremiah 7:31 passage states:
 They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had NOT commanded and that had NEVER even come into my heart.’
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:50 am
 
Ok I’m confused… in a good way – I think. So most of Leviticus tells us that so and so if they did this that or the other should be burned in the fire etc etc etc BUT then we read in Jerm 7 that this never came into Jehovah’s heart….. other scriptures say it is detestable to Jehovah…. can someone explain why it was ok one minute but not the next?
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
Tara, the whole thing is very confusing. Let’s take for instance what the King James Bible says at Ezekiel 20:25,26:
“Moreover also I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances, wherein they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
Exodus 20:20 says that they were to give their firstborn to Jehovah “Every firstborn of your sons you are to redeem. And they must not appear before me empty-handed.”
Exodus 22:29,30 says: “Your full produce and the overflow of your press you must not give hesitantly. The firstborn of your sons you are to give to me. The way you are to do with your bull and your sheep is this: Seven days it will continue with its mother. On the eighth day you are to give it to me.”
I believe the Watchtower deliberately manipulated Ezekiel in the New World Translation to make people think that the idea of having the Israelites sacrifice their firstborn in the fire to Jehovah did not come up into His mind because this is how they worded Ezekiel 20:25,26: “And I myself also let them have regulations that were not good and judicial decisions by which they could not keep living. And I would let them become defiled by their gifts when they made every child opening the womb pass through the fire, in order that I might make them desolate in order that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
The way the Society worded those scriptures, it makes it look like Jehovah “let” them do it but in the King James, it clearly says that it was Jehovah’s statutes and he did it so that they would know Jehovah.
If you look up Moses in the concordance, almost every single reference to Moses is saying that the “Law” was from Moses. Only a few scriptures imply that God gave the Law to Moses.
According to Acts 7:42, it says that God gave them (Israelites in the wilderness) over to the army of heaven” and it was not to Him that they offered victims and sacrifices for forty years but it was to Moloch.
In the 300’s A.D. when the Bible as we know it was being ironed out as from God, I don’t think those people had any idea how really confusing the whole thing is and then you add in the fact that through those 1700 years, the scriptures were hand-written and many mistakes were made.
When people read the Bible, they see what they want to see. They don’t really examine it closely to see if it makes any sense.
If we take Acts 7 literally, it indicates that the whole “law” from Moses was from angels and not the “one true God.”
Another very interesting scriptures is at John 1:17,18:
“Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”
If you look at those two scriptures, it is saying that the “truth” was not through Moses and it also says that nobody saw God except for the Son and didn’t Moses claim to “see” Jehovah?
Almost all the scriptures in the Bible say “the law of Moses” and not the “Law of God” given to Moses. The Israelites were following Moses. That is who they were following and they still do today. The Watchtower insists that it was Jehovah God who gave Moses the “Law” but was it the creator God or was it angels???? Since so many of the things recorded in the “Law of Moses” are so repulsive to our way of thinking today, it would make sense that those laws were from the pagan God Moloch, doesn’t it as Stephen said at his stoning.

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:58 pm
 
Don’t fall for the Atheist recruiting Tara. Look at all their comments and their purpose for visiting this site will be made clear. Don’t break free of Watchtower lies only to fall into theirs.
Galatians 1:6-9
 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ.8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:28 pm
 
Robert67,
I resent and totally deny your accusation that I am “atheist recruiting”.
How dare you accuse me of such a lie!
You have been shown from the bible, the book you choose to believe is inspired of God, verses that expose your rude, oafish, bullying, sarcastic behaviour as unchristian. And what is your response?
You choose to slander atheists.
I am not advocating that Christians, or any adherent to any other faith, leave their religions or their belief system. I am merely presenting an alternative view. That is all.
I do not try to be master of another’s faith like you do, Robert. Is it perhaps that you believe yourself still to be an elder? Sorry, but you cannot be.
1st Timothy 3:7
Also, he must be well spoken of by people outside the church – those who aren’t Christians – so that Satan can’t trap him with many accusations, and leave him without freedom to lead his flock
Living Bible Edition
You certainly don’t have a good reputation with me. I am not a Christian. This is not your flock, Robert. The Holy Spirit has not appointed you over the posters here.
The fact that you have slandered me, despite my best efforts to entreat and exhort you politely and respectfully shows that you are far, far from the Christian you think you are.
You are no elder here, Robert. You have no authority here, Robert.
To all those of the Christian Faith who post here.
You have nothing to fear from me. I am not out to ruin your faith. I am counting on it.
We need to work together to help the children, the women and the men who are trapped inside a cult. That is why I am here.
If you want to work with me, then I welcome it.
If you want to judge me, then go ahead. Matthew 7:1-5 John 3:16 – 21
It is clear from the many posts between Robert67 and myself that there is a problem here.
Is it me?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
Robert67,
You have cursed other atheists and I?
Oh dear! You really aren’t much of a bible scholar are you, Robert?
Allow an atheist to correct you once again. Oh, the delicious irony!
Matthew 5:22
…If you call your friend an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.
Living Bible Edition
How does it feel, as an ex elder, to be publically exposed as a slanderer and a terrible Christian, by an atheist, Robert?
I don’t think that I would like it one little bit, if the tables were turned.
So here’s your chance, Robert!
 Will you humble yourself, as your Saviour humbled himself, to the glory of God? Will you apologise for slandering atheists?
By the way, how can a non belief in any deity be an alternative “Good News”? Your quote from Galatians was nonsensical, I’m afraid.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:07 pm
 
Are you done? Please read what you wrote about me originally, pause, and then read everything you just posted.
 Please read the rules if confused in anyway.
 Peace be with you :)

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:57 pm
 
Robert67 says: “Look at all their comments and their purpose for visiting this site will be made clear.”
I’m happy to submit myself to that test, Robert. I’m sure Excelsior, Ted, and Caroline would too.
At this point, your paranoid assertions are so bizarre that I’m not even worried anymore about the regulars on this site being swayed by them.
Tara asked a simple question that would have been better served by a simple answer, rather than you going off on a tangent that never even addressed her question.

 
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:33 pm
 
Oh no, don’t get me wrong. I’m just asking a question here. I believe that Jehovah found it detestable but I’m just inquiring why the book of Leviticus did say such things. I could never become atheist or agnostic. I’m just learning to ask questions. It’s a whole new beginning to be able to do that.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 10, 2015 at 4:18 am
 
Hi Tara. I appreciate that you think you started a controversy but it really isn’t about your comment. It’s about whether or not we can post any scriptures that paint God in a bad light or not.
Some think that when we point out scriptures from the Bible that paint God in a bad light, that we are trying to get people not to believe in God and that isn’t what is happening here.
I for one don’t know if there is a God or not but I should be allowed to point to scriptures in the Bible that should make anyone question whether it is “inspired” of a perfect God or not, especially when a certain topic like Abraham’s sacrificing his son comes up in the post.
Should we all accept all of those accounts as something wonderful and good or should we be allowed to question it and whether or not it was good or not?
This is not North Korea where we can’t express our thoughts or get killed. There are thousands of religions and all with their own holy books. Why should the Christian religion be the only one that can’t question their book?
I want to add a comment about something you and Robert brought up about Jeremiah 7:31 where it says something to the effect that the thought of the Israelites burning their children in the fire did not come up into Jehovah’s mind.
There is another scripture in the King James at Ezekiel 20:25,26 where it says: “Moreover also I gave them statures that were not good, and ordinances, wherein they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
Those statutes are talking about Exodus in the commandments from Moses such as Exodus 20:20 and Exodus 22:29,30.
Read those scriptures and draw your own conclusions.
This scripture at Ezekiel 20:25,26 in the K.J. is not worded like that in the NWT and that is because the Society “cleaned” it up to make you think differently. When Stephen was being stoned to death in Acts 7, he clearly said the Isaelites were worshipping Moloch during the forty years they were in the wilderness. Think about it. That scripture from the King James is from the King James printed by the Watchtower Society.

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:46 am
 
Robert67,
You ask, “are you done?”
Yes, I am satisfied that you have judged yourself and exposed your true attitude to all the posters here.
I sincerely hope that you will learn from your Saviour to humble yourself, and apologise for the slanders you have written.
We shall see!
To answer your question, Robert, yes I am done. I have a full and happy life, and I simply do not have the time to teach you the basics of Christianity on top of my other commitments.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
Robert67,
Oh dear! Here we go again!
From this further sarcastic and passive aggressive comment, I can read that you have not paid the slightest attention to the passages of God’s inspired word, the bible, that I provided for your consideration.
Why is that, Robert?
Did the verses I quoted from the book you claim to believe is inspired of God not apply to you?
Sadly, my estimation of you is rapidly decreasing. I read your words and I am not reminded of Jesus Christ at all.
I shall try one last time to reach you through the words of the bible. If you will not accept the authority of the bible, then there is no other authority that can replace it, is there?
“If I had the gift of being able to speak in tongues, and could speak in every language there is in all of heaven and earth, but I didn’t love others, it would be of no value whatsoever. I would only be making a lot of noise.
Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude.
1st Corinthians 13:1,4,5
How is a sarcastic comment a reflection of this passage, Robert?
You bring no honour to God or Christ. You belittle and insult people who do not agree with you, in direct opposition to your professed Christian Faith. When you are politely called out on this, and shown scriptures that clearly show you are in the wrong, you ignore them and continue to use sarcastic comments in an attempt to belittle others.
Here is the truth. They only belittle you, Robert.
For the whole Law can be summed up in this one command Love others as you love yourself. But if instead of showing love among yourselves you are always critical and catty, watch out!
Galatians 5:14,15
…complaints and criticisms, the feeling that everyone else is wrong except those in your own little group…
Galatians 5:20
All scriptures are from the Living Bible Edition
This is the time for you to choose what you will do. You can choose to continue your personal crusade against atheists, agnostics and others who disagree with you, or you can choose to humbly apply the scriptures you claim to follow, and start writing comments that truly reflect your Christian Faith.
The choice is yours.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
Dear Exelcior, stop fishing for an argument. Instead of correcting the once again anti faith comments made here, you respond to the reaction to these comments.
You obviously have no interest in how these comments upset people of faith here. As a matter of fact your more than happy to join in and preach the atheist belief.
It is ok by you to run over Abraham the father of the three biggest faiths on the planet, but BigBang forbid anyone should speak up with the counter view.
The Rules:
 OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS – DO NOT post comments that are off-topic and bear NO RELATION to the page or article
RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY – DO NOT post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person’s religious beliefs (or LACK THEREOF) over those of another.
Atheism is universally recognized as a belief, a belief that there is no God. Not indifference to whether there is one or not, just the not part.
How is it that you came to believe the NOT IMPOSING your beliefs on others didnt apply to Atheist?
The subject is Doctrine and loyalty to the Watchtower. The Watchtower is thicker than blood problem.
 Not, let me see how, yet again I can trash these people’s God and hit my “I’m an atheist” shield button and no one is the wiser.
I’m surprised the moderator hasn’t done something about this sort of abuse towards the visitors of this site.
You’ve obviously misconstrued my wording in posts in hopes that the moderators still have the catfish society conditioning in them and will be swayed by your twisting of both subject and matter.
Are we at one of your old Kingdom Halls where seniority cliques run things? No we are not, this is a neutral site with clear rules. I haven’t called for the removal of anyone despite the blatant violations, only posted a retort to their subliminal recruiting. Guess what, ill continue to do so, until you and others stop the faith bashing. If my instincts are spot on, you’ll retort with what YOU the one with no faith considers faith bashing and tell us how it should or shouldn’t make us feel.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 10, 2015 at 8:37 pm
 
What a predicament. I want to stop replying to you Robert, but you keep peppering your comments with accusations that simply can’t be left as the final things said on the matter. Why do you keep doing that? Please stop doing that.
I suspect that EVERY believer on the site–except for you–understands that our simple expressions of concerns and doubts do not constitute “subliminal recruiting” for atheism.
If you see a comment you disagree with, simply counter it with a relevant, respectful expression of your opinion, leaving out personal attacks and paranoid accusations of sinister motives. Why would you not handle differences of opinion that way? Most people on this site do handle them that way.
And you listing the commenting guidelines is truly ironic. I’m sure I don’t need to explain why.
I do not want to keep talking about all of this. Nobody wants to see this issue keep coming up. Please stop making these defensive replies necessary.
Just for an experiment, don’t say anything that is a direct attack on our character or motives for awhile, and let’s see if things get better for everyone involved. Please?

 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:03 pm
 
Robert, the thing is that the account of Abraham sacrificing his son to Jehovah was a topic of conversation in this post and we should be able to tell our side of the account, don’t you think? It is within the posting guidelines.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:41 pm
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaagh all of you! Please cease and desist! I’m sorry I asked a question. That’s all it was. a simple question from a simple and honest woman! There is more at stake here than you lot bickering. Enough already. I’m going to bed now. If I hear anymore out of you all then I will put you on the naughty step. Or I may just refrain from commenting.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:06 pm
 
Tara, I ran the numbers, and you had somewhere in the neighborhood of 0% to do with this thing. And you are very much loved here by–I would guess–ALL of us, so please don’t get too distressed about this thing.
By the way, none of us thought your question was an expression of doubt, nor were any of us hoping that it was.

 
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:00 am
 
Also remember, Abraham had seen miracles with his own eyes and God had spoken to him personally. He would not have been confused, but he trusted God. He just knew that God would make it all better somehow.
That is quite different from having to obey the GB on this matter. It involves our loving our family which was instigated by God himself. Unless, he speaks to us personally, I do not see any reason to abandon our own family, how the Watchtower wanted us to. How would this be good for the human race? I suffered so much and so did my family for alienating them from me and my own family. What a bad lesson in good manners and loving kindness it was. What a life of no fun, no enjoyment and no close relationships.
We were a stressed out family counting our hours and working out how we could mix a short holiday in with our next district convention. We used to stay with my parents for that until my Dad could stand it no longer and told us we could not stay there anymore. That hurt of course. I don’t blame him. We were only there to go to the convention and we were gone all day. I feel ashamed of myself for having done this to them.
And my mother used to ring me up on my birthday and wish me a happy birthday. I always like a broken record would tell her that I didn’t celebrate it. And she would say, “Well, I celebrate it.” My poor dear Mum. How I wish she were still around to wish me “Happy birthday”. I would hug her till the cows come home. I really despise how I treated my own dear mother. There were times when I hated my life but I would not admit it.
Thank you John Redwood for writing this article with such sensitivity. It is somethng so many of us have had to live with and suffer for. We still suffer as in grief as those whom we used to love, we purposely made our love for them grow cold, we have to live with that bad memory and hope God and they forgive us for this mistreatment.
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:47 am
 
Meredith J,
An excellent point about Abraham having physical proof. The provision by God or Jesus Christ of physical proof is absolute in the bible.
Not one of those people was expected to just blindly trust a bunch of guys somewhere who claimed to represent God.
This kind of separation between what the bible actually says and what the WTBTS says the bible says is vital in the recovery of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:40 pm
 
I personally can’t figure out why anybody could have respect for Abraham when Genesis 25:5,6 it says of him “Later on Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac, but to the sons of he concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts. Then he sent them away from Isaac his son, while he was still alive, eastward to the land of the East” and this is after Abraham was such a coward and showed no faith in Jehovah when two times he said that Sarah was his sister instead of his wife because he was afraid for himself. But, when Abraham and Sarah were sent away by these kings, those kings loaded him down with all kinds of animals and slaves and servants and silver. That is how Abraham got so rich.
The man was perfectly willing to offer his son Isaac as a burnt sacrifice to Jehovah which shows that Abraham did not look at this as an unusual request or unusual. Isaac did not know what Abraham’s true intentions were because Isaac asked where the sacrifice was.
So, the guy was a liar and a coward and would have killed his son at hearing the voice of the “true God” through an angel.
Genesis 22:”By myself I do swear’, is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of the sand that are on the seashore, and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed, all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.'”
So, it seems that those people thought that Jehovah would have been pleased if they offered their children as burnt sacrifices to him. How else could anybody take that account to mean? As long as they were willing to kill their own children, that would show how much they loved God. The Watchtower society seems to think that we also need to be that loyal to God but that kind of loyalty is insanity.
According to Jeremiah 7:22, Jehovah did not speak with their forefathers or command them in the day of bringing the Israelites out of Egypt, concerning whole burnt offerings and sacrifices and according to Acts 7:43, all the time the Isaraelites were in the wilderness, they were sacrificing to Moloch.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ilidio says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:01 pm
 
Your article talks about this date “found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study “”found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study” I dont think we have come to this date yet? Have we?
Reply
 
 Jane Redwood says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:53 pm
 
The Watchtower releases the magazines months in advance. The referenced article was released last week and is dated Feb 2016. 😉
Reply
 
 
 
 da' says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:20 pm
 
The sadness lies in that families are torn apart it seems on every level, in every situation. Most sadly when a family member faces and succumbs to death and the outsider (df’d da’d) is not welcome to visit even prior to their death. This was my situation, my sibling , close to death, and when I requested to visit , the answer was “NO”. He’s gone now and now his family is reaching out . My reply is “NO” ! No, I don’t want to talk to you.
Reply
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:50 pm
 
Excellent article, so much I could say about this. The part that stood out the most to me though was the five pictures and the whole spy network thing. It’s incredible to me that they don’t extrapolate this principle to include the mandatory reporting of sexual predators – by their own standards they stand condemned. Talk about straining the gnat (not to mention incredulity) and removing the splinter from other eyes with the sexual abuse rafter lodged firmly in their own, not to mention disregarding the weightier matters. If I could change the five pictures to make them more relevant I would do this:
 Picture 1 – A young witness child being sexually abused.
 Picture 2 – That child as a dysfunctional adult, confused, empty, depressed, suicidal, unloved.
 Picture 3 – That same adult finally having the courage to go to the elders and expose their abuser after years of broken relationships, alienation and mental and emotional anguish.
 Picture 4 – The victim having to confront their abuser in the presence of two elders who sympathise with the accused because they deny everything and there is only one witness.
 Picture 5 – The predator sitting at the meeting with the elders and other families with young children, smiling, Watchtower in hand….
If there is any doubt that these men are truly delusional, this Watchtower magazine should dispel that. To think that this is the latest spiritual food – Feb 2016! There is no sign of progress here, quite the opposite. My personal feeling is that as they increasingly lose their grip on reality they feel the need to tighten their grip on everybody else they control.
Reply
 
 John freeman says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:13 am
 
I feel the same about the spiritual food .in the past at least there was dissusion about deeper things .however most if not all WT studies are now just about the GB s interpretation of moral issues and tightening thier grip on the sheep. The tactics are showing these men to be the stumbling blocks jesus spoke about . Im also begining to think they constitute the ” man of lawlessnes”
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:34 am
 
The GB are not giving life or protecting the sheep. they are chocking the life out of them.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 enlightened now says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:24 pm
 
The problem is when anyone is part of a “high control” religion, personal individual thought that could lead to personal decisions are not only not encouraged but are actively encouraged to be suppressed.
 I remember well many years ago when my husband was an elder and we lived over the road from another elder and their family. It was Guy Fawkes night ( live in the UK) and my husband had decided to take us out to watch fireworks in the nearest town from our car (. Not paying to see an event) and my children had conveyed this information to the other children of the elders family over the road.
 Well all hell was let loose!!!!! The elder had my husband up before the other elders saying how wrong he was in doing this and how “pained and disturbed” his children had been knowing they were not allowed to go and see fireworks because as witnesses we should not be part of a plot to burn down the Houses of Parliament or celebrate Guy Fawkes being burned!!!!!
 My husband was to say the least enraged by the narrowness of the other elder over the road but we all had to comply – like it or not – so no freedom of choice. Eventually my husband stepped down front serving because of total petty mindedness and unreasonableness.
 I stopped going many years later and so did he eventually and although we split up we have both found true peace and happiness being who we truly are – not having to conform completely and constantly to others whims and wishes.
 Thank goodness!!!!!
Reply
 
 
 Susan says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:45 pm
 
Excellent article that unfortunately sums up my childhood as well. The line in the Watchtower from “Anne” whose mother was disfellowshipped annoyed me the most from what the JW organization does: “Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude.” What a bunch of garbage. Nobody cuts themselves off from their family by wrongdoing – only a cult would try and justify their despicable behavior in that manner AND try and twist it to make it seem like it is you shunning them. If that were the case, then why was the mother seeking to contact her daughter in the first place? I’m so glad you found your way out of this messed up organization.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:29 pm
 
Susan.
Red what you said, Your right, That is a load of garbage.
Only an organization like that could influence the daughter that much to write something like that to the mom.
That’s not a biblical teaching, That’s an organizational teaching getting in between families.
Reply
 
 
 unnamed says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:11 am
 
Thats a heartless reply coming from Anne the daughter. The mother gave her life to start with then the daughter says that.
If the daughter cannot put her religion to one side so she can get along with her mother, then that is a screwd up religion. by the time the daughter wakes up to what she did the mother will have grown old and died. That is a shame.
Reply
 
 
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 November 6, 2015 at 7:14 pm
 
The section on “The Abraham Principle” is spot on. That story and how the WT uses it is perhaps one of the powerful persuasion and control tools uses to condition the rank-and-file.
I, too, always had trouble reconciling the story, until I applied a different key Watchtower principle. That is “The Two Witness Rule.”
I realized that there was no one at the incident portrayed except Abraham and his son! There was no “second witness” to substiate what did or did not take place with that helpless child at the hands of his own father, who was like the Elder of all Elders who would ever exist.
So without that second witness I just cannot form an opinion on that incident, or use it as a basis for understanding anything then or now. It’s just a story. Just another story.
Thanks Watchtower for clearing that up!
😉
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 6, 2015 at 7:29 pm
 
The problem here is that stupid people listen to these guys. I have uncles and cousins that faded away. I never stopped associating with them. My brother and sister got disfellowshiped and I still called them and associated with them. I guys weak people need to be told what to do. As a young boy at the meetings I always thought who are these people telling me what to do. People should follow what they think is best. You don’t need another person telling what to do. I love how they got this new music. One of our new elders who listen to metal music was tapping his foot to the new pioneer song. What a hypocrite. I know he doesn’t really like the music. It was hilarious.
Reply
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:09 pm
 
I was surprised to hear, in the last convention, the words “Are you still spiritually weak that you need someone to tell you right from wrong? A spiritually strong person can discern for him or herself right from wrong” (something along those lines). I thought how great it would be for the organization to relinquish control over to the congregations and individuals, but sadly it is not the case. The speaker that day spoke truth. “There’s nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so” (W. Shakespeare). Too bad the vast majority, as it seems, are too afraid to think for themselves.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:15 pm
 
“The problem here is that stupid people listen to these guys”.
When you have a group of men making bold claims that they are God’s only spokesmen on earth today and that this is God’s spirit-directed organization, how can it be said that “stupid people listen to these guys”?
Well obviously you don’t believe that they are guided by God’s holy spirit as they claim and that they are God’s only spokesmen on earth today. Kudos to you! If only the other 7,999,999 JWs could realize that they have involuntarily become captives of a concept (www.captivesofaconcept.com).
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:45 pm
 
But they are just men. Imperfect men living off of other people. Never felt that they were like the pope an infallible. I don’t think they ever said they were infallible.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:13 pm
 
Markie, they make a point of saying that they don’t claim to be infallible but spirit-directed. So, then what is the difference?
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:51 pm
 
Good question Caroline.
And if they are not infallible then why disfellowship/ disassociate persons for taking a blood transfusion? Why disfellowship a person for opposing their teachings? For that matter, why disfellowship anyone for any reason at all?
Why denounce other religions as false, Satanic and evil and that they will be destroyed by God since their own fallibility would very well mean that their religion’s teachings could be false as well? Why insist that they have “the truth” and everyone else is false since they are fallible?
 Why do any of these things if they are fallible?
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:45 am
 
@Markie,
This is what the Bible states would happen when you are spirit-directed:
“But when he, the Spirit of truth comes, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come” (John 16:13).
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:01 pm
 
I fear for my nieces and nephews. My brothers and sisters are all too willing to obey every command. I wish I could be there for them, but returning to the meetings and having to sit through mind-numbing misinformation is hard enough as it is while getting the stank eye from those sitting around me. However, for them, I at least want to stay so that, in the events of their awakening, and the result of shunning, they can come to me and know I won’t judge them and I can show them the love they are meant to enjoy unconditionally. I really loved this article. Thank you
Reply
 
 
 Darlene Alexander says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:36 pm
 
Awesome article, John! Where you said, …. feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.” OMG, that is so true, the modern JW can’t support their faith anymore. I comment on several fb pages and news pages where JWs are also commenting – they can’t even answer a simple question – or they just cut-and-paste and answer from the WT. They know nothing about the org they claim is the “truth”! You ask them to prove something and they say, “go to jwdotorg”! It’s so pathetic.
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:22 pm
 
Thanks John for your hard work. Nice writing!
 We are grateful to you.
 G
Reply
 
 
 Tommy says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:51 pm
 
Thank you very much for this article. Profound indeed!
Reply
 
 
 just asking says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:06 pm
 
Why do I feel I belong to this kinda reasoning?
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:39 am
 
Because your asking questions
Reply
 
 
 
 Willows says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:25 pm
 
When the Watchtower can extract the rafter in their own eye, then perhaps they will know how to extract the straw in their brothers eye.
From 1879 the Watchtower has printed and taught false dates to followers and the public in their publications. Shown disloyalty to God by running ahead and printing their own ideas only to be proved false in time. Sweeping these matters under the carpet…. If a publisher did what they do showing no repentance they would be judged, disfellowshipped and shunned.
When the Watchtower look at themselves in the mirror, and ask, how many have they disfellowshipped knowing full well they are guilty of sin. The rafter remains in the eye. So history has a way of repeating its self. The merry go round keeps going round and round till you get off and gain peace of mind.
Reply
 
 
 John Baptist says:

 November 7, 2015 at 1:25 am
 
John just a little constructive criticism. Your article goes on and on. I got 3/4 through it and said I get your point already. Many former JW”s know these dynamics of what was taught to begin with. We don’t need to have such in depth rehashing of what we already know. The point is redundant at best.
 Haven’t we all had enough of this indoctrinating religion? Sometimes you got to just let it go and move forward with your life. Why alow these false religious adherents to rob you anymore of your time and joy. I notice lately a lot of long self serving and long winded comments to a lot of articles posted here. To this I say get over it and move on. Shouldn’t liberation from this Cult religion be enough to seek happiness and peace withen yourself?
 People suffer enough from PTSD when they leave this religion. And it certainly is evidenced by the many comments through out this site. Take it for what it’s worth even if you don’t agree. Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance.
Reply
 
 MDM says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:49 am
 
@John Baptist
I sometimes think it should be easy to “Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance.”
This might not be a difficult task for those who were a JW for a short time.
Some of us were raised in the JW org and the teachings/way of life are so deeply ingrained in our entire way of life that sometimes its difficult to make it through the day without having a flashback. Example: I dislike Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. Why? Those use to be the days I went to the meetings. It has been 7 years since I have been to a meeting but I still dislike those days.
Imagine finding out that almost everything you have been taught is a sham. Do you think someone telling you to “Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance” is really going to work?
This site and most of the comments help people like me remove those teachings/ways of life so that we can find a reasonable balance in out life.
So to you, John Baptist, I say shame on you!
@John Redwood
Kudos to you and your fine article!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:59 am
 
John the Baptist, just a little constructive criticism about your comment as well. I see you don’t like long winded comments here and you think that we should just all move on with our lives instead. Tell me something. Do you ever watch the history channel? Do you ever see anything about World War 2? There is never and end to shows about World War 2 and even movies were made about it which you can still see. Why is that? Do you think that the world should just move on after World War 2? I guess in your way of thinking a half hour show about World War 2 about fifty years ago should have been enough and the people should have just moved on.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:15 am
 
John Baptist, simply skipping over comments that appear to you to be too long would be more reasonable than asking the commenters here to refrain from fully expressing themselves. As you know, while some have found freedom, many here are still in the thick of it, trying not to lose family and friends still in the Org. Either way, flushing the devastating effects of decades of indoctrination out of one’s mind is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Communicating freely with others who can empathize is very helpful.
But, just to throw an M. Night Shyamalan twist into my comment, I will completely agree with you that there does exist the risk of becoming so obsessed with the goings-on of our little cult that we could fail to maximize our enjoyment of the good things in life that have nothing to do with the JW experience.
So, thanks for that good point. As for the other bit, don’t get your panties in a bunch over it.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:18 am
 
John Baptist you sir reek of either a mole for the Watchtower seeking to apeace ex-jw activist or worse, a person completely indifferent to the excruciating emotional pain this cult has inflicted and continues to increasingly inflict on its members. I’m hopeing your just a person who has been able to leave it all behind yourself and is letting us know it is possible.
. Most of us still have family on the inside and have, not feel, a responsibility to help save them from this cult. The activism needs to keep increasing until this cult has nowhere on Earth to hide its true agenda and people everywhere see the faith killing dangers within.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:49 pm
 
@John Baptist
“Many (((FORMER JWs))) know these dynamics of what was taught to begin with. We don’t need to have such in depth rehashing of what we already know”…………….but persons new to the religion or who are considering joining the religion do. They don’t know as much about these things, if at all, as FORMER JWs do.
 The info on this site is for those persons as well.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:02 pm
 
When those smiling JWs go knocking on people’s doors they certainly do not talk about the controversial/unpalatable aspects of their religion upfront. Their first order of business is to get the householders hooked on believing that they can live forever in paradise as that is what cults do – they hide many of their more controversial/unpalatable practices from newcomers and prospective members. So it is good that this website puts these things out in the open.
Imagine a JW telling a prospective convert upfront: Do you know that when you become a JW you will have to spy on other JWs and that other JWs will be spying on you as well?
Reply
 
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:25 pm
 
@John Baptist – Yes, I agree with you, we have all had enough of this indoctrinating religion. Some of us are in a transitional state, having recently left. Others have been out for many years.
My question to you is, if you have moved on with your life and have no need to finish the final 25% of the article, why bother visiting this site in the first place? If you feel the information is redundant, you are free to read elsewhere.
There are many active Witnesses reading this site who are perhaps not at the same point of freedom which you have obtained. They may benefit from an editorial related to the latest Watchtower, which was one of the goals of this article.
For others who have left the organization, some articles might sound to you like “preaching to the choir.” That’s OK, not every article will appeal to every person. If you have a constructive suggestion, feel free to share it.
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:28 am
 
The congregations Jesus’ own apostles founded did in time become the Church of the Middle ages, the delusion is one of a religion somehow being ‘incoruptable’ before the end times.
 Jesus never gave any such assurance, unless I missed it.
 The birds are gobling the fruit’s of the mustard tree now, tares are ckoking the wheat, NO religion is exempt. we were warned by the Christ himself many times. Acts 17 v 11.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:16 am
 
Reader
That’s pretty much how I always understood things myself.
Looking into the Scriptures like the bereans did in Acts17:11. Is no guarantee of coming up with the right interpretations either.
That’s why there are so many religions.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:32 am
 
The congregation the Apostles established split thousands of ways before the Middle Ages and there are now tens of thousands of different Christian denominations or factions of that first. You have to keep in mind that Jesus thought the way to live and salvation through faith in him and his father. He never mentioned any religion, nor did his apostles.
The only thing that comes close to a religion being pushed by one of them is in James 1:26,27
 If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile. 27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Jesus himself said in John 14:5,6
Thomas said to him: “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (nothing there about a publishing empire replacing the Christ as middle man, between us and our creator)
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 2:31 pm
 
Robert 67.
I like your reasoning.
A question ?
Jesus said go make disciples of all nations. ( congregations or ecclesias, Greek ) keep getting bigger and bigger.
The bigger they get, the more different views and opinions you will get, How would you resolve them issues ???
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:24 pm
 
I would just focus on the common denominator in Jesus message to all who would claim to follow him and what all versions of Christianity preach, even though they may not practice. Love God, Love your neighbor, share his message of love and hope for a better tomorrow.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:45 pm
 
That makes sence, I see what your saying.

 
 
 Reader says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:31 pm
 
Could be that the only model given is the congregation ‘a people gathering’.
Revelation 2 & 3 describes congregations we would see as different religions mostly all with good and bad points.
 We could see all congregations or even persons as being similar to one or other at various times.
 Middle ages-Thyatira
 Has IBSA become an Ephesus?
 None beyond saving none above condemnation.

 
 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:06 pm
 
Robert67,
“If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile”
The difference between the words you quote and the words you write is at times truly astonishing.
Accusing people of being WTBTS agents for voicing a different point of view! Accusing people who disagree with you of being akin to Nazis!
Of course, you can continue to do as you please, but if you want any credibility, You should start to actually APPLY the scriptures you quote to yourself first, in line with Matthew 7:1-5
In your defence, you did apologise on a different thread for another infringement of the principles you follow. That, sir, is to your credit.
I shall leave you with this scripture to prayerfully consider.
“But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control; and here there is no conflict with Jewish laws.” Galatians 5:22
Your passion is evident in your comments, and it’s good to be passionate about such serious issues as we discuss in this site. However, you and all of us need to learn to control ourselves and read through our comments before we post them. Ponder whether they exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit that you sincerely seek in your life.
I am confident in your sincerity and so I shall look forward to positive, loving and uniting comments from you in the future.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
Stop recruiting for Atheism we can see your and Caroline’s post go far back always deviate from the topic and center on converting visitors to your atheist belief. No one is falling for your side show.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:00 pm
 
Reader.
Basically what your saying reader, There is good and bad in all people, In every congregation, In every generation ?
Why then did Jesus warn so much in ( Mathew 24 ) about faulse Christ, faulse, prophets, coming in various shapes and forms, If they are not above or below condemnation ?
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:23 pm
 
Reader.
Whatever you want to say.
Keep it ( SIMPLE )
( The IBSA ) international bible students association, current day JWS, If that’s who you are referring to, Made a number of faulse predictions.
Keep it simple.
Reply
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:37 pm
 
My comment was about admonition to the Congregations in Revelation 2 & 3, these were established groups. My comment also simplified as in R 2 & 3 one congregation has nothing good said about and one other has nothing bad.
Warning in Matthew 24 are to individuals about future individuals.
I have noticed that some comments seem to loose a word and sometimes another word may double, mine and others.
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 9, 2015 at 7:56 am
 
Reader.
Red what you said.
Thanks for simplifying things.
( Give me some time ) And I will explain how I understand things.
Reply
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:44 pm
 
Reader
Not sure what you mean by some comments seem to loose and another word may double.
I really don’t know what your saying there.
What are you saying ?
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Sarah says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:00 am
 
Terrific article. May the people ‘wake up’ in droves.
Reply
 
 
 rikos says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:02 am
 
Yesterday i heard from a local radio station that 2014 in europe 18 millions children have be sexual molested and abuse from the family members, and from strangers. Many thousand have died because of the safering.
 who knows how many was from jehovah witnesses homes?
Reply
 
 SIRIUS says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:47 am
 
It’ll be quiet interesting as the wave of immigration from Islamic countries permeants European society bringing their version of the “only true religion” and “one true god” upon the masses. I’m wondering since devote JWs like to practice avoiding worldly attachments will they morph into non-assimilation? By the way speaking of child abuse and those living in the UK, any new news of the abuse cases in Birmingham?
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:56 pm
 
@SIRIUS The Islam version of a site like this http://www.falseislam.org
Reply
 
 
 
 
 rikos says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:37 am
 
Thank you for the article it is very well documented.I can sympathize with the people have lost their relatives. I am just drifted away for numbers of years. I have two children, the one i haven’t see for 17. The second have cut ties with me for number of years. A new baby was born but i don’t think i will see the new grandson to the infinity. And i do believe because of the new instruction from the february watchtower 2016 even the relatives have to report to the elders any indication for apostasy, sone i will see the elders at my door steps.
 But I feel very determent and strong for what i know
 about the bible, world religion, jehovah witnesses, univers, history of christianity, this make me very confident, and strong against the history and corruption of the religious concept. I do feel very sorry for my children to be in this controlling cult.
 But the real truth is we are followers of the follower, and victims of victims to jehovah witnesses cult.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:33 am
 
Well folks this is my birthday today.All the snitchers out there you can report me because i’m celebrating my life today.No candle ,cake , drunkeness or presents, just my life. I’m glad to be alive and happy to be removing myself from a nasty cult. Guess what? since the religious divorce, i no longer feel hopeless, depressed unhappy or despair about the future. I do not claim any divine revelation but each day is a wonderful day of life good things and bad things. So snitchers celebrate with me congratulate me that my jw suicide attempts failed and i’m awake and alive. Ok if you need to stay in the doomsday cult my friends here will wish me well and understand i just needed to celebrate freedom and life. ruthlee
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:57 am
 
Happy Birthday, Ruth Lee!!!
I wish you happiness and a long life!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:39 am
 
Happy birthday ruthlee and here’s to many happy days ahead of you in freedom from the Watchtower Organization.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:49 am
 
♪♫ Happy Birthday dear Ruthlee, happy birthday to you! ♫♪ And many moreeee!
I’m so happy you survived the bad times and are still with us, Ruthlee. I just found this, and dedicate the first minute of it to you! (The rest of it is really good too.) https://youtu.be/e9Fk_1UnpH8
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:22 pm
 
Happy birthday ruthlee, can’t someone be made a fuss of for just one day of the year? We all need it. Hope you had a nice day.
Reply
 
 
 covertfade says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:31 am
 
Happy Birthday Ruthlee 😀 Enjoy yourself!
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:20 am
 
Thank you all i feel so happy to have kind words and thoughts sent to me across the airwaves love ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:34 am
 
It seems to me that the GB is getting more direct in their methods of mind control. I recall that when reading Watchtower articles in my youth, the control was a bit more subtle. Something to the effect, “Wouldn’t it be wise for true Christians to…” and then whatever action they were trying to incite.
Today it seems as if they are more direct. ‘You will do this, you must do that.’ Perhaps it is just that I have been away from it for long enough that I see it more clearly, but it seems like the GB is going for more direct control.
I believe this is due to the low increases they are now seeing and the numbers leaving the organization, which in turn is due to the availability of information through the Internet and websites like this one.
So the GB decides to institute more direct and aggressive control methods. But I am reminded of a quote from the original Star Wars movie (which by the way, during my childhood, I was told was a demonic film). Princes Leia to Governor Tarkin: “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
To draw an allegory to the evil Galactic Empire of Star Wars, the GB seeks to control through fear. It will fail.
Reply
 
 John freeman says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:34 am
 
I like to compare the GB with the Borg in star trek resistance is futile you will be assimilated. Once part of the collective one is linked to the hive mind any sort of atempt to leave is punished by being deactivated.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:32 pm
 
I call Locutus
Reply
 
 
 
 Almost Anonymous says:

 November 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm
 
Excellent analogy.
I have to agree. As they lose control and numbers are dropping the only way to try and prevent anymore defections is no longer through subtle mind persuasion, but more overt and insidious what is right and wrong.
At least before, you could always say it as a conscience thing. No longer.
As a side note. At our one day assembly with around 900 people only two were baptized and they were very old. No young ones at all.
I expect the day will come when they either stop reporting numbers in the Yearbook or just start padding them like they used to do with the Publisher hours per month.
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:44 am
 
Thanks John. Your time is well spent in writing this article.
 Such information is important in helping people from being
 deceived into joining this organisation. It’s extreme doctrines
 and demands are personality and life destroying on so many
 levels. It needs exposing.
Reply
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:08 am
 
John Redwood – Excellent! A thought provoking and well written article – I personally did not find it too long. How can you reduce a lifetime of experience into a few paragraphs? Your comments struck a few chords with me.
 I remember attending weddings of ‘worldly ones’ and staying out of the church. At my brother’s funeral I sat in church but wanted the walls to swallow me up. I did not take part in any of it, for fear of displeasing ‘Jehovah’. At my mother’s funeral at the crematorium I did not join in the songs or prayer! How the GB controlled my thinking, even when my heart was breaking.
 When my husband and I attended the funeral of a disfellowshipped brother out of compassion for the family, I was shocked when his ex-wife and daughter (still JWs) did not attend, or even send flowers. This same sister also did not attend the wedding of her other disassociated daughter. What divisions the GB have caused. What sadness.
 P.S. I have just submitted my disassociation letter of 18 pages! The research was thorough, the condemnation explicit. O.K., so the elders will probably not read it, but it got it all off my chest.
 It is also now available on line for anyone to read and I am happy to know that it may help others to escape. Surely that is what this is all about?
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:34 am
 
Congratulations, Bad Penny! If you’re able to post a link to that letter, I’d love to read it.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 11:40 am
 
Bad Penny, that is a very powerful letter. I hope the elders will be curious enough to read it.
Some favorite lines:
“I had always thought that Jehovah’s people should be the most well educated people on earth.”
 “But what was this, all those changes of thought, and all in one go!”
 “On further investigation I discovered an earlier edition dated 1891 when the pyramid had apparently shrunk slightly to enable Russell to come to the year 1874!”
And, “I rest my case, literally!”
Though we differ on the issue of Faith, I agreed with much of the letter, and I really enjoyed the expert presentation of all of it. Thank you for sharing it, and again, a sincere congratulations for finding a path to freedom!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:03 am
 
Ruthlee. When I have my night cap later on.
 I’ll make it a generous one and celebrate
 with you. Best wishes, from Ted.
 PS. It won’t be coaco.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:38 am
 
sweetness to you all with love ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 SIMPLE says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:41 am
 
John well done! The WT is a complete maximum security prison. As Witnesses we do not know whether we are Jews or Christians. Christians are no longer under Jewish laws which the GB is flaunting about as do or die bible principles. Since Jesus shot down those laws as no more relevant I do not see why the GB would use those discredited laws as propaganda to brainwash us day in day out if the GB has good motives. I therefore adopted a simple plan after I started fading. Since Jesus is the way the truth and the life I ignore any words or messages that contravene or misinterpret what Jesus said.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:58 pm
 
Well said Simple, I’m definitely on the same plan. No longer feeling around looking for God, while playing Marco Polo/where is God with the Watchtower. I have the manual right on my desk. I Stick to the simple instructions our redeemer gave for this life.
Reply
 
 
 
 BeenMislead says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:51 am
 
But according to Geoffrey Jackson, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have a spy network. Here are his exact words when he testified before the Australian Royal Commission:
“It presupposes that Jehovah’s Witnesses have some sort of spy network to monitor these people, which we don’t.”
He lied !!
———————–
23 Q. Well, if the elders come and knock on the door to
 24 a member who has been inactive and sought to fade away and
 25 says, “Well, are you still a Jehovah’s Witness or not?”,
26 and the person says, “Well, no, I don’t want to be
 27 a Jehovah’s Witness”, the consequence of that will be
 28 either disfellowshipping or disassociation, won’t it?
29 A. No, I don’t agree with that, not from what I have
 30 seen. Can I just say, this hypothetical situation, which
 31 is probably one that could happen ‐ two elders call at the
 32 door of someone, they are not going to come out and say,
 33 “Hello, I’m celebrating Christmas”. It presupposes that
 34 Jehovah’s Witnesses have some sort of spy network to
 35 monitor these people, which we don’t. But if that person
 36 says, “Look, I was baptised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses,
 37 but I’m no longer active”, no doubt the elders will say,
 38 “Well, we would encourage you to return. Is there anything
 39 we can do to help you?” Now, in that process of them
 40 returning, if they feel prompted to say that they have been
 41 living a lifestyle that is contrary to what Jehovah’s
 42 Witnesses would live, then certainly we would handle that.
Reply
 
 

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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
 
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
Posted on November 6, 2015

The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control
The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control

When I was a very young boy, my grandfather died. I don’t know much about his life, aside from the fact that he was a carpenter, a policeman, and a Catholic. He was, in fact, Irish Catholic, and I suspect my father’s family took great pride in their heritage and their faith. It was a disappointment for them that during the pre-1975 years, my father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The invasive control that the Jehovah’s Witness organization had over my parents divided our family. At my grandfather’s funeral, all hope of normality was smashed when my father refused to sit with his brothers, instead electing to place himself at the back of the church, with easy access to the nearest exit.
Why would he do this? His decision was decidedly influenced by the March 15 1970 Questions From Readers, which posed the question

“May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?”
The phrasing of that question in itself diminishes the thinking ability of the reader and transfers control of one’s life to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The article casts aside the faith of the individual, suggesting that attending a church service places a Jehovah’s Witness in serious danger of violating his Christian conscience.

“Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided.”
Only recently did I come to understand the permanent damage that this caused. For the balance of my childhood and to this day, I never got to know my uncles, my aunt, my cousins, or anyone else in the family. In a sad twist on the words attributed to Jesus below, my extended family became strangers who purportedly worshiped God incorrectly, or so I was led to believe.

“Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” – Luke 12:51
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes no apology for splitting apart families; in fact they summon Jesus’ words to reinforce their divisive policies. Luke chapter 12 continues:

“For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”
Undoubtedly, self-imposed estrangement is not the intended meaning behind these expressions, but for the Jehovah’s Witness religion, they mean just one thing:
Blood is not thicker than Watchtower
It has been nearly 40 years since my family was fractured by the policies of this organization. Instead of a softening of rules and regulations, the Governing Body has elected to double down their doctrinal directives, expanding their influence using the power of suggestion and crowd manipulation to achieve control of their flock.
An example of this control is found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study edition. The article “Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah” drives readers to the conclusion that loyalty to the suggestions of the Governing Body is equal to loyalty to God.
We encounter Olga, a Jehovah’s Witness wife and mother who has suffered at the hands of her non-JW husband, a man who “abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.” The Watchtower paints a picture of the stereotypical “worldly” man, a person without redeeming qualities and without Jehovah.
Sadly, his father dies, and Olga agrees to travel with him to another city for the funeral, showing respect for him despite his non-affiliation with Watchtower. But did she truly show this man respect? The article says:

“She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony
 ended.”
Without even addressing the subject of attending a church funeral, the Watchtower suggests that a truly faithful Witness of Jehovah would never step foot inside a church. While this statement is not the subject of the article, the powerful suggestion is nonetheless implanted into the reader’s mind, setting a precedent that must be followed.
Just a few paragraphs later, we are reminded of some of the simple pleasures in life that must be abandoned if a person is to be loyal to Jehovah.

“Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good
 things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them”
The result?

 “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
This heartbreaking story touches me personally. The endless years of alienation from my family and any sense of celebration and happiness were replaced with piles of Watchtower magazines and books that filled my shelves, but left me empty and depleted.
It is difficult for Jehovah’s Witness children to really understand what is happening to them during the formative years of their life. One by one, normal relationships and activities are eliminated, and Witness children are advised that they must be “no part of the world.”
Another way this happens is by abstaining from school activities, including healthy and stimulating sports and clubs. The Watchtower hammers down this point by stating:

“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the
 championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
 out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
For most of us who have lived the life of a Witness child, we understand what this means: no extra-curricular activities, no after school sports, nothing that might steer us away from field service and regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
 Snitching and shunning
Along with behavior modification, Jehovah’s Witnesses engage in one of the most cruel practices in modern society: shunning. The February 2016 Watchtower advances from suggestive behavior control and graduates to full-fledged punishment of anyone who violates the social customs of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members are encouraged to spy on one another, and if the guilty party refuses to confess, the elders must be notified.

“Kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties. For example, you may have definite knowledge that a certain fellow believer is guilty of serious misconduct. You may feel loyal to him,
 especially if he is a close friend or a relative. But if you were to cover up the wrongdoing, you would be disloyal to God. Of course, your loyalty to Jehovah should come first. So like Nathan, be kind yet firm. Urge your friend or relative to seek the help of the elders. If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, loyalty to God should move you to report the matter to the elders.”
In a series of 5 photographs, the Watchtower study article visually demonstrates the process:
1.Observe the social media photo of your friend committing an infraction, such as drinking alcohol at a party where non-Witnesses are present
2.Confront your friend with the photograph
3.Take your tablet to the Kingdom Hall and show the photo to an elder
4.Two elders take your friend into a private room and chastise and counsel her
5.Your friend regains her senses and is soon participating in meetings once again
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower (click to enlarge)
 
The reality is that seldom does the process occur in this manner, with step number 2 usually bypassed. But the encouragement to police each other within the congregation is very real.
Another disturbing practice is shunning, which is not limited to those who have been disfellowshipped from the JW faith. Simply leaving the organization for personal reasons results in the immediate loss of your complete network of friends. And for those who have been formally disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a total and devastating loss.
A woman might decide that this religion she was baptized into at a very young age was not the correct decision for her. But it is too little, too late to change this decision. The Governing Body has decided that her own daughter is barred from fellowship with her. The bond is severed indefinitely, the punishment is very real.

“A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5: 11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote”
There is no greater bond than that between a mother and daughter, yet the Watchtower has managed to produce a doctrinal solvent capable of dissolving the closest relationship known to humans.
I know many Jehovah’s Witness mothers who have been reinstated to the organization, superficially believing they have “returned to Jehovah,” when in fact they just wanted their family back. They walk among the congregation with the permanent stigma of judicial discipline, but take comfort that they have traded public humiliation for the ability to speak and associate with their family.
 The Abraham Principle

“Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to kill his son” – Genesis 22:10
Inflicting harm on a son or daughter is a completely foreign concept to any human with a measure of good mental health. Yet according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the biblical character of Abraham showed the ultimate faith in God when the Almighty required him to stab his son to death on a mountaintop.
Is this really a lesson in faith in God, or could it perhaps be a convenient method of demanding blind obedience?  The Watchtower study article titled “Jehovah Called Him My Friend” suggests that anyone who doubts Abraham’s decision to knife his son is void of faith. The blame is shifted from the perpetrator (God) to the critic:

“There are those who say that God was cruel for asking such a thing of Abraham, and some imply that Abraham’s obedience was blind and unfeeling. They take that position because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.”
I never could grasp the sense of this bible tale. Apparently my faith and understanding are just too weak. We are told that Jehovah called out to Abraham and halted the murder just in time. Why didn’t he apply this same life-saving power moments before the planes crashed, or the tsunami hit shore, or the crazed gunman slaughtered those schoolchildren? These are questions we must all ponder for ourselves.
Separation of church and sanity
Looking back on more than 40 years of loyal association with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I truly understand how damaged my family was by this destructive organization. I can finally validate my own feelings, my internal conscience which always told me that these things are insane:
◾Associate only with Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾Stay away from non-JW church services
◾Avoid playing team sports or joining school clubs
◾Spy on your friends and turn them in to the elders
◾Avoid higher education
◾Shun anyone who leaves the organization
◾Never accept a life saving blood transfusion
◾Do not celebrate anyone’s birthday (or any holidays)
◾Believe that God will kill everyone but Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is increasing its doctrinal control over its members, further blurring the line between religion and personal identity. They have systematically removed individual freedom of mind and conscience and replaced it with a long list of directives, leaving many Witnesses depressed, feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.
This is a prison from which you must escape.
If you share the same feelings, please reach out to someone for help. You can do it anonymously and without judgment. Read, watch and learn as much as you can, and separate verifiable truth from the insanity of indoctrination.
Make this the first day of the rest of your life.
You are now free.
 
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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
 
278 Responses to The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost

← Older Comments
 
 The way says:

 November 7, 2015 at 2:12 pm
 
Thank you for the well written article. I agree with the information. Keep writing these well researched, articles, not just your personal opinions as some other sites do. The Way
Reply
 
 David Tritenbach says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:50 pm
 
Well written article demonstrating the reader has no say in the matter! You showed us how they focus on things that don’t make concepts bind, their fools! Thank you and keep up the good work!
I read the same concept in the newly leaked “Branch Answers For Witnesses Without Brains!” and nothing has changed. The key concept is always guilt or worrying your going to stumble Bipolar-Betty or Dave-the-Drunk because we don’t want to show respect for our outside friends or workmates, Heaven Forbid a Jehovah’s Witness actually acting Human!
Thank’s for pointing out how they word these questions so the reader has already gotten the official Watchtower Answer under the illusion:
“The individual Christian can personally decide whether he can, with a good conscience, attend a church funeral of a relative or friend. Since church funeral is really a religious service, many brothers prefer not to be present when the church service is in progress therefore showing gross disrespect to all onlookers because the Witness must worry whether Mad Martha or Dave-the-Drunk saw him walk boldly inside the Catholic Church to pay their deep respects(I added some of my own thoughts)”
“We avoid giving the wrong impression, stumbling weak elders or ministerial servants or pioneers! Real Jehovah’s Witnesses never want to be inside a church in case the End was to take place. Jehovah would never forgive you and by taking your own conscience, using your God given right to decide what is right or wrong based on everything we taught, its still not enough!”
“Some of your fellow Witnesses might think you were participating in a false religious service, sticking a dagger in a goat’s neck because rumors will fly if your Brothers and Sisters see you walking past a church! Please don’t attend these services, please don’t because we are so tired of your local Elder Body sending us letters trying to get you removed or justify why your COBE is able to shun anyone for any reason, please save us time and pretend you have spiritual freedom!”
“Work’s speak louder than Faith!”
Watchtower Branch Office Qs.
Galatians 3New International Version (NIV)
Faith or Works of the Law
 3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Galatians 3:1-6
Reply
 
 
 
 Jesu brother says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:21 pm
 
No one know the end when Jesus come, read Matthew 25: 31-46. As you see you cant know you are sheep or goat. Because you dont know really who Jesu brother are, because of that they ask both the sheep and goats.
Reply
 
 
 Cherie says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:24 pm
 
The scariest sentence ever written: “All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” This has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with credulity.
Reply
 
 ScotWm says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:39 pm
 
Will the Governing Body ultimately reduce its most devoted adherents to only a few thousand? Will these faithful few openly worship the Governing Body members and do whatever they demand?
The Governing Body previously said, “We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval.” — Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition.
Then the Governing Body demanded even more loyalty when they made this endgame proclamation:
“At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. — Watchtower, Nov. 2013 (study edition) p. 20 par. 17.
With the Governing Body demanding such blind faith and obedience, the Warwick world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses could become another Jonestown.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:24 pm
 
They have to tighten the noose in order to prevent a mass exodus……..Mass Exodus = Capital Flight
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:35 am
 
Get out the Kool aid.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:09 pm
 
Cherie, where did you get this line from? I have heard it before but I just wanted to know where it came from. It is very disturbing. Any true Christian should questiion such a line as not coming from God. I do not recall God ever making anyone do anything that he disapproved of.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
I just went on to JWBroadcasting and the back button did not work. I felt trapped, just like on one of those advertising sites where they will do anything to get you to not leave the site because you need to buy the product. I wonder if they are phishing for users. Not ‘fishing for men’ but phishing for users. ha.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 7:12 pm
 
This comment makes me smile every time I go by it, Meredith J. Very clever :)
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:30 pm
 
I’m here from U Tube. I just finished watching the Refinements in Scriptural Understanding video on JW Broadcasting. I noticed the brother never said the original understanding was wrong. The GB never say the religion has been wrong about anything. They have to much pride Pride is before a crash. I know closet apostates going to meetings. There is a Ministerial Servant in my congregation who says he no longer wants to be called ministerial servant because he says he no longer believes in titles. It could be the GB is on a slippery slope going downward. That’s how it seems.
Reply
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:52 pm
 
I wonder how many are like myself. I no longer believe it’s the one true religion so I’m doing a whole lot of thinking. My parents, 2 brothers, 2 sisters, 4 cousins, 1 aunt and grandmother are Jehovah’s Witnesses. I go to meetings and out in service. The last time I was out in service I irritated my partner so bad because she could tell I didn’t want to be at the door. It’s not to bad. I’m not complaining. My parents moved close to the grandchildren so I’m moved into my own apartment here close to my job. They understood I don’t want to move. I notice there are active JWS who comment here. I have a lot in common with them. I’m not going to estrange myself from my family. I don’t feel any need to do that. It’s great to see I’m not alone. We could write a book.
Reply
 
 Jude says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:17 pm
 
You are in a very small minority of people who don’t have to estrange themselves from their family? Btw, you do realise you are wasting your life, your youth, etc on religious make believe? Not only that, you not doing anything means you indirectly assist the wt to cause more heartache and sorrow. I’m not sure I could feel ethically and morally comfortable with that.
Reply
 
 
 Gardy says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:55 pm
 
Alexandria R You’re not alone ! I still go to meetings, field service, and even comment at the meetings at times! My mom and sisters, nieces, Nephews, and many cousins are witnesses! Anyway, I don’t know for how much time I will be able to do so but I still manage not to teach or comment on doctrines I don’t believe in anymore! Anyway, it’s very hard to believe we are the only true religion now!
Reply
 
 BG says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:36 pm
 
I agree. I stopped going to meetings because of the july broadcast. Anthony Morris said that it has been their position to go to the police in cases of child sex abuse cases, bit that very same month in australia, they were investigated by the royal commission for not going to the police! Does that not seem like an outright lie to you? Then there is the whole double talk about paying back loans that they had “cancelled”. How can I ever trust them again?
Reply
 
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:15 am
 
Alexandria – I was like you and can understand why you won’t fade. But really, until you do you won’t be free. I feel such a weight lifted from me since fading.
Reply
 
 BG says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
So do I
Reply
 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:32 pm
 
Welcome, Alexandria R. I faded about 6 years ago, but you are correct– there are many active JWs who enjoy the eye-opening articles here and share in the discussions.
I like the part in your comment about the MS not wanting to use that title anymore. It is a good sign. There are many good people in the Org, and all we want for you folks is to at least enjoy the mental freedom that many of us have found, even if your circumstances don’t allow you to physically move on yet.
TWELVE JW family members!? Wow! Well, it’s great that you’re taking steps to educate yourself about the things that the Org doesn’t want you to know. Although doing so can be a bit of an emotional roller coaster ride, you will be glad that you did. So please keep visiting JWsurvey.org, and you would also benefit from a look at JWfacts.com.
Feel free to jump into any discussion here anytime you like.
Reply
 
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:01 pm
 
[post removed – Bad Penny, I understand your willingness to share your letter, but the website on which it is hosted is not supported, endorsed or promoted in any way by JWsurvey. And yes, this is entirely personal. If somebody spread horrendous slander about you, and even threatened you with physical violence, probably you would be less them impressed if someone slapped a bumper sticker promoting their business on your car. Thank you.]
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:22 am
 
Sorry, Lloyd –
I do agree with you. I didn’t realise things were so bad between you and the other team.
 It’s sad when we are on the same side of the fence and yet we can easily upset each other – I guess it was the same when we were all ‘in the borg’. Hopefully one day things can be rectified and peace will ensue between you and the other guys.
 We need each other in this battle for truth.
 Again, apologies.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 12:00 pm
 
Ah interesting Lloyd, my Spidey sense was actually tingling a bit when I got to that other site. I don’t know anything about them except that they have some videos on YouTube that can’t hold my attention for more than two seconds.
Anyway, give me Evans and Grundy all week long, and twice on Sunday. (I know there are other great folks/sites out there. I just tend to stop looking once I find what I need.)
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:42 pm
 
JB – “Spidey sense was tingling a bit”. Makes it sound like you have been a very naughty boy! Tee hee!
 I only posted the link because you asked to read the letter. Didn’t want to get us into trouble! Anyway, I’m SO glad you managed to read it before it was taken down. The more I can help to get people out of the cult the better.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:51 pm
 
It’s a very interesting letter, Bad Penny. I’m 6 years out, so I’m already thoroughly decultified. But I’m excited for anyone who can slam the door behind them with a full-blown DA letter. It’s not currently in my best interest to do so myself, and we all know it isn’t the best idea for everybody, but it seems like it would be a VERY satisfying and liberating feeling for those of you whose circumstances allow for it! Okay, I’m a little jealous…
It’s clear in our previous exchange that I followed your link, so my comment above was just to let Lloyd know that, not only do I not frequent that site, I’ve never even heard of that site before. That sounds strange probably, but only in this particular situation would I feel the need to do that. I wouldn’t want anything to do with anyone who attempted to abuse someone who has done as much good as Lloyd. Ugg, I know that sounds like shameless ass-kissing, but, whatever. It’s the way I really feel.
Anyway, your letter is simply parked on that site, and you clearly meant nothing offensive by posting a link to it here. If I ever write a DA letter, though, I will shoot for TWENTY pages, just to beat your record, lol.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:36 am
 
To everyone.
Just want to say to you all that I won’t be posting any further comments.
Already given my own personal views about the JWS.
Any past issue I may have had, Was not whether an Almighty existed or not, But Rather with the way the JW organization is run, Which effects individuals.
I hope some of my own post have been helpful to some.
I may post the odd comment in future ? Under ( anonymous ) If I think it may be of any help to anyone, Since I don’t want to have any dialogue or conversations with any individuals again.
As I said, I hope some of my own post have been helpful to some.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:07 am
 
Hi Anthony. I enjoyed your comments and expressions you made. I just have one curious question? I hope I am not being to nosy.Why did you decide not to participate in these conversations anymore? I wish you the very best and feel free anytime to come back and engage in this open forum.
Reply
 
 N/A says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
I was not really looking for any conversations, But rather to just state my own personal experiences with the JWs.
People keep coming back at you trying to correct your thinking all the while, When I was just stating my views and experiences.
Plus there are to many views on things which I find a bit confusing.
I really don’t see the point in debating issues when in say 20 years from now peoples own views and opinions themselves change as a result of moving on and growing up.
That’s what Lloyd did when he said why he can no longer be an activist, Things he seen and experienced made him change his views on things, And if we are real searchers, then our views will always continue to change.
Hope that answers your question.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 DJ says:

 November 8, 2015 at 8:52 am
 
What has just pissed me off this morning is this question in this months watchtower on the chapter about your conscience being your guide. The question asked ‘Does my conscience move me to shun sports that are aggressive, competitive, nationalistic, or violent’? So now we can’t even play a freakin sport let alone be allowed to watch it? What are the GB thinking right now? First it’s how we must dress and groom ourselves, then who we must associate with according to “Jehovah’s commands”, and now we can’t even play a sport, which is beneficial for you. If they want to make these ridiculous, absurd, extravagant rules, they should say something about the overweight brothers and sister with clogged arteries who get on the stage and act like God would approve and tell them “Jehovah” has opinions about overeating. This is ridiculous I wish I could leave but then I would lose friends and family and I’m close to a llot of people in the religion. Who knows; maybe in a month or too the GB will give us another rule for something so freakin small, I doubt God, for those who believe in him, would actually care about. They need to be stopped as soon as possible. 2016 is gonna be an even worse year for us. I pray for all of you I honestly do.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 12:17 pm
 
John Redwood, thank you for your excellent article. It reminded me personally of times when beloved couples in the congregation (on a couple of occasions) lost a disfellowshipped child. Each time, one could see the disgusting abandonment of these couples in their time of anguish by the members of the congregation who were too afraid of going against whatever they thought the Org’s (twisted) wishes would be.
Fortunately for the bereaved parents, some true friends were more interested in the care and support of these faithful members of the congregation than they were in surrendering to paranoia. Those funerals were tense, but they were the right thing to do.
I liked picture 5 in the sequence you showed in your article. I’m imagining the things that would REALLY be going through the sister’s mind as she sat right next to the one who squealed on her. I’m guessing that she’s fighting the urge to CHOKE her into the “new system”.
I also appreciated your well-stated thoughts on Abraham, and certainly do agree with you.
Thanks for your time and effort, John.
Reply
 
 The Circus Overseer says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:30 am
 
“choke her into the new system”
brilliant!!
Reply
 
 
 Mona Millet says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:11 am
 
Ha JB! I was thinking the same thing about the picture of the sister who’d received “direction” sitting by the friend who squealed on her!! Oh, yup!! I’d be smilin’ and singin’ next to that chick all day!! Not!! :)
Reply
 
 
 
 JJ says:

 November 8, 2015 at 1:35 pm
 
Watchtower propaganda in these 5 pictures, at its finest!
 Who has ever ‘ratted’ out a friend will find that these people will never forgive you, let alone trust and be friendly again. Don’t believe that the elders are lovingly concerned either.
 This is simply a ‘snitch system’ like every totalitarian system MUST have in order to maintain its control and fear over its subjects.
 How can people be so stupid?!? Oh yeah, by going to the JW meetings, that’s how.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
The stupid people will just see this as God stepping up his efforts to keep his organization clean in these decadent last days.
Reply
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:46 pm
 
I know a lot of people in the cong who treat all of that as crap, & just blink an eye to it. My kids are now old enough to escape our little city & go & see more normal young ones in the big smoke, we just had the annual go bag talk,
 i pitty the guy that had to do it, what nonsense, we were joking after saying they need to add shotguns to the bag, to fight of the zombies that are going to come, oh thats right the walking dead are already in the KH.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 9, 2015 at 6:50 am
 
Bet those ‘go bags’ are beginning to stink a little. They needed to be told to get some up-to-date supplies!
Reply
 
 
 Mona Millet says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:15 am
 
Does anyone else remember when the JWs made fun of the Mormons for having supplies set aside? My friend’s dad was an elder and he actually got a “talking to” from the other elders when he set up a bunch of supplies in his basement!
Reply
 
 
 
 giac says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:24 am
 
Nice article and true in a sense too.
 Yes, as mentioned by some, there are active JWs in here. I am one of them. I believe in Jehovah and I love studying the Bible and teaching the Bible to those who wish to learn about God and the future for mankind as exposed by the Holy Scriptures. As far as the Org is concerned, I sincerily believe that there are many flaws, I have been in it since 1982, when I got baptised. One thing that makes my faith strong, it is not how the GB is explaning and flip-flopping BS interpretations of things that they construe from dates and historical dates which do not correspond to what it is historically accepted by the whole world, but the profecy of the image of Daniel. We are, I believe, in the period that will see the feet destroyed by God’s Kingdom. I believe that God’s Kingdom will take over. On the other hand I also believe that JWs are the only ones that try to do their best to advocate that Kingdom. Unfortunately, the Org is wrong about many things at its infrasctructure level and has ruined lives of those who allow themselves to be molded by it, instead of following their personal Bible trained consciences. Why am I still in the Org? Because I cannot find any other group that at global level display or try to display fellow feelings. Look at your fellow worshipers at the KH, those are the true christians who strive to make a living and read the Bible and help you when you are in distress, not the GB that sits in an office and debate on how to spend money they have not earned or how to fire those poor volunteers who wanted and believed to dedicate their lives wholesouled to preach the good news, but now find themselves in dire situations….but wait a moment!! I also believe that when Jesus comes at the GT, the GB will be accounted for not being a discreet slave, at least some of them! Another point, any time I teach or comment at the meeting about, 1914, 607 or dates which reflect the GB interpretation and I personally would not put my life at stake for those interpretations, I always say …”the WT interprets…”.
Well, this is how I feel. Greetings to all.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:30 pm
 
Giac, I appreciate your sincerity, and I suspect you are a kind and respectful person. The most important thing right now is that you seem to recognize that the Organization is not teaching truth to the extent that you would expect it to if it truly had God’s backing. If it truly was a Holy Spirit-directed organization, there would be zero false predictions, zero false teachings based on misinterpretations that have led to the death of many faithful Witnesses, and zero policies that protect pedophiles and seriously endanger children.
The question I would ask you is this: If, at the end of your life, you were to meet Jesus in order to be judged by him, do you think he would be pleased that you remained attached to an organization that has so profaned the name of God as the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion has?
There are good people in the Organization. But tragically, they have been misled by a cult. And the billions of hours in field service and millions of pages of literature in hundreds of languages mean very little when the information being spread is false.
I am personally no longer a man of faith. But, as you have retained your faith, I would recommend [brace yourselves everybody] Robert67’s approach of focusing on the uplifting and helpful things that Jesus taught, being a good person, and placing less value on the idea of there being an organized religion out there that Jesus would approve of. However, if there is one out there, it will not be guilty of the God-dishonoring sins that the JW religion has been guilty of since its very beginning.
So, if you’re able to leave without losing family and friends, then I hope that one day you will. If, on the other hand, part of your reason for staying is that your entire support system of family and friends would collapse if you did, then you have our sympathy, and you are certainly not alone. Either way, I wish you the best, and I’m glad you are part of the conversations here on this site, Giac.
I say all of this with respect to you, because I really do get the sense that you are a sincere person with good motives.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:14 am
 
giac, welcome to the site. I read what you just wrote and realise that you are in a very early transitional stage, but the point is that your eyes have been opened. And that is good.
 JB Reezner has given good advice about your situation. But I do have to tell you something that kind of knocks what you said about the Watchtower being the only one doing the right thing at the moment. I would definitely have to disagree wholeheartedly with that. If they were doing the right thing then what they produce would be good, as in Matthew 7:16 where it says “By their fruits you will recognise them”. Their fruitage is bad, just as this article has pointed out.
For the first time since I left in 2002, my daughter invited me to go along to her local church the Sunday before last. It was a new experience for her too, as she also was previously a Witness. I found the service very good. The Bible was used in the appropriate places and with good sound Christian advice. The singing was uplifting, with simple themes and the whole atmosphere was refreshing and exciting.
There was also a lot of referencing to the coming of Jesus Christ. You see a lot of other religions and individuals are on the Watch too. The difference is that they talk about Jesus a lot more than we ever did in the Kingdom Hall. And isn’t that what we should be talking about as the spirit of the anti Christ takes over? It may be in fact that the Witnesses are really out of touch in this respect and fall into that same anti Christ category. After all, they don’t celebrate Christmas and they refuse to use the cross as a symbol of the Christian faith. That could be something to be suspicious about. These people at the church were certainly not ashamed of their faith. There was no compulsion, just a simple service on a Sunday morning without anyone making a mental note of who was missing.
Anyway, just because Jehovah’s Witnesses prophecy about the last days doesn’t mean they have any exclusive rights over any other faith.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:55 am
 
“Anyway, just because Jehovah’s Witnesses prophecy about the last days doesn’t mean they have any exclusive rights over any other faith.”
The JWs do not have the monopoly on salvation as they like to think.
Reply
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:15 am
 
@Giac. I understand how you feel. I to was a long time JW, a former elder, a MS,I spoke at assemblies, I even Sponsored refugee JW’s from different parts of the world and stayed at my house for many months
 until they could reestablish themselves in Society, I have had the Governing body stay at my house on their visits more than once,Even recently in the last year the GB had their wife stay at my house during their visit.. My wife is still a JW pioneer, My kids were raised as Jw’s. Our entire
 family were JW’s. We would get personal invites to the annual meetings from the GB themselves..That being said I do know there are nice people in the JW Congregation. The issue with me is after I finally realized the love you talk about is only conditional it isn’t real. What kind of religion will tell members not to talk to their Mother, Father, Children family, friends etc.? I could no longer be affiliated with a group like that despite the fact they claim to be in a spiritual paradise.The other issue I had was what they teach is JUST NOT TRUE.Sure a few things may be biblical, the hope of the kingdom in Daniel the 2nd Chapter or Matthew the 6th chapter but their interpretation is just one of many about the kingdom. Many other religions believe close to the same thing about the kingdom but the JW’s are the only ones that have this FAKE 1914, 1918, 1919 nonsense that goes along with t and that Jesus “CAME” in 1914 but no one cane see him? I always doubted the 2nd coming of Jesus in 1914 and took me years to come to honest truth with it that it is just a fabrication by the WT. I can not teach that or pretend to teach it. Also,there are so many other things that they teach that is off the wall.
I think you are impressed bc you feel their is a brotherhood and you are part of something that is bigger than ourselves? I know the feeling but I believe you could find the same “brotherhood” with other groups themselves. The Mormons, the 7th day Adventists, the Pentecostals, the Church of Christ and many others have a form of brotherhood like the JW’s in that they stick together and “HELP” one another to a certain degree. Although my personal exxperience is the JW’s and especially the ORG of the WT does not help their followers very much at all exept perhaps in an extreme emergency like a flood, earthquake etc.
So how could I go to the KH or door-door and share that info as bible truth? The over lapping generation, the new teaching on Gog of Magog,the new teaching of the F&D Slave being the GB only?
 The list can go on and on from the inception of the WT until today. If the JW have the truth they should be able to prove it beyond doubt right? Gaic, I appreciate your desire to be involved and feel loved and that is not a bad thing but please remmber as I and thousands of others have realized you are only shown “LOVE” if you stay in the BOX. it is not unconditional it is very structured and very limited if you can call it love at all. You sound like a good person and I wish you continued happiness. We all find our way in this life and I am sure you will find yours at your own speed.
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 10, 2015 at 6:58 am
 
You’ve already received some good sound comments to help you think critically so I’ll add one thing in addition to that. The image in Daniels prophecy as depicted by watchtower is nothing but a plagiarized interpretation. It was borrowed from the millerites and they put their own watchtower spin on it. Don’t believe me? Look it up. That’s what most of here did to discover the lie we’ve been fed.
I would not use watchtower dogma to guide my dog let alone my life. Not anymore and neither should you.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:05 am
 
“It was borrowed from the millerites and they put their own watchtower spin on it”.
When you research the origin of the WT’s doctrines, you will find that this is the case with most of the doctrines which the WT claims make JWs unique. This point was also made by M. James Penton who researched the origin of the WT’s doctrines and documented his findings in his book: “APOCALYPSE DELAYED: THE STORY OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, 3rd. edition:
“Like the Millerites and various Adventists before them, JWs are the American heirs of nonconformist British Puritanism, and that they are more closely related to the many churches and sects of US Evangelical fundamentalism than even they or Evangelicals would like to admit.”
“If they are unique in many ways – as they undoubtedly are – it is simply because of the particular theological combinations and permutations of their doctrines rather than because of their novelty.”
A signicant portion of the JW’s teachings are nothing more than permutations and combinations of doctrines that existed prior to and during the time that their founder Charles Taze Russell was alive………I suppose it can be argued that the Holy Spirit told Russell which permutations and combinations of doctrines to choose.
Reply
 
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
I appreciate your honest comment – but you must know that if “they” knew you were on this site they’d DF you. I think you know what you need to do.
Reply
 
 
 
 Mc fan says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:03 am
 
Why do many JWs try to convince people that they have studied many religions and this is the BEST or CLOSEST THING to the truth? They say things like: Of all the religions I’ve studied this seems the most sincere.
But how many religions have these people really studied?
 Did you know that there are over 34 thousand sects of Christianity alone, I have not even started on Buddhism,Jhudism or Hinduism. So next time a JW states that he studied so many religions. Ask him/her how many exactly have they studied. Of the over 34,000 groups or Christian organizations in existance, how many have you actually studied?
Reply
 
 Reader says:

 November 9, 2015 at 3:59 pm
 
Unitarian or faiths which believe the Almighty is a single person are very few, most other faith groups consider the deity a threesome of sorts.
 If you look for faiths which are christian AND worship an Almighty who is a singular person [as the Jews]…
I doubt you will meet or find more than around 20 chioces.
Reply
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:16 am
 
giac, I really don’t understand why you are still in the Organization when you realize that you are teaching lies to people when you go to service and when you answer at the meetings.
Also, you think the Organization is loving. If you know what the real history of the Organization is and if you know the Society is lying about 607 B.C.E. and you dare to tell anybody about them joining with the United Nations for ten years and if you say anything about how they misquote what people have to say to prove their doctrines and cover up for pedophiles, you will be kicked out so quick, it will make your head spin. That is okay with you?
That “love” that you think they have for you is conditional. If you tell anybody at all about any doubts you have in the “truth”, you will either be disfellowshipped or marked. What kind of “love” is that?
As far as trying to find people who will help you when you are in distress, that isn’t going to happen either. If you are having problems, they will run the other way. They don’t want to be bothered with your problems. They have way too much on their plates to be bothered with every person’s “problems” in the congregation. When they come over to “shepherd” you, they only want to hear good things.
Are you a publisher, an elder, a ministerial servant, a man, a woman? What has been your experience as to when you had problems, they came to help you? How long have you been baptized?
When you talk about how they help you when you are in distress, are you only talking about when there is some disaster and the Society stepped in to help?
They only help other Witnesses, not like what Jesus taught with the Good Samaritan illustration. If that person has insurance, they will ask for the insurance money when the insurance money comes in. They do the work so the Society can get the “donation” when the insurance company pays off. The Society loves it when a national disaster like that happens in countries like the United States. To them, all the work the brothers and sisters do (free of charge), the Society sees that as a cash cow.
Can you imagine being a person with no food or clothing and you see Jehovah’s Witnesses helping the people standing right next door to you getting good and clothing but you are not “worthy” because you aren’t in their select group (religion)?
Other religions don’t do that. They don’t ask you what religion you are first before helping you. The JW religion is not charitable.
You might look at that as a good thing, but I don’t. If I saw an injured or starving person, I would not first ask what religion they were before helping them. That is not what Jesus would have done.
Reply
 
 giac says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:11 am
 
@ Caroline,
 I got baptised in 1982, at the age of 17. I served at Bethel also, for 5 years. I also served as MS. Now I am only a publisher. I teach to people the Bible, the Good News and what Jesus commanded his followers to teach. Is this wrong in your opinion. If you consider yourself a christian you would do the same with or wothout the GB! There is no flaw with Jesus’ teachings. As far as congregations are concerned, I always found to be loving towards me and I reciprocate. I am sorry if you dod not experienced it.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:01 pm
 
giac, the congregation I went to was also very loving and kind to me until I discovered they were lying about 607 B.C.E. and said something to my cousin and my children and my husband who then all turned me into the elders and when they came to talk to me, I told them about it and they took away the call in pass code for the meetings and slandered me throughout the circuit and gave a marking talk on me. Until all that happened, I thought they were my friends too. Now I know what conditional love is all about. What has been your experience when it comes to telling them about Watchtower lies?
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:28 am
 
Yes, Caroline, that used to peeve me too the way they would say “We help our brothers first and then we help anybody else”. I could never quite get that one. It sounded so selective. Apart from the occasional good turn one brother would do for another brother, which was commendable, I never saw anyone representing the Society ever open their wallet for anybody. They were a tight fisted bunch I must say. From now on giac take note of the generosity of the governing body. It’s not really that great.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 10, 2015 at 12:12 pm
 
After a particularly nasty hurricane here, when I was still active, I was put on a list to possibly get some help from the bros and sis’s with some cleanup at the place I had at the time. I didn’t put myself on the list. But before anyone came out, someone I didn’t even know called me and asked me (among other things) if I was regular in field service. Yuckkkk.
Even though it can be argued that an organization has the right to help its own people first, to have field service hours factor into the worthiness of a Witness receiving help is gross.
To be fair, I’m not saying low (or no) hours automatically disqualified ones from getting help. I just wanted to share that awkward little episode to make the point that, at that time, not just whether or not you were a Witness mattered, but HOW MUCH of a Witness you were was evaluated before you could get help.
On a side note, I actually felt a little sorry for the sister on the other end of the line because I had the feeling she was NOT enjoying being stuck with that particular “priviledge”.
Reply
 
 
 
 Kat says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:19 am
 
Mac fan they will probably bring up the trinity.
Reply
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:09 am
 
I feel like I know you…maybe I do…….but you have just described my life…with all its fears….social and emotional deprivations…and the feeling of never knowing unconditional love…. Im a prisoner John but like you my mind is free…. sometimes its not enough…thank you.
Reply
 
 
 RunFromTheTower says:

 November 9, 2015 at 8:53 am
 
Thank you John for writing and posting this great article. We couldn’t make this stuff up. You covered so many points; exposing the evil WT organization and the detrimental impact it has on family.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:25 am
 
Giac,
*What is the future of mankind as exposed by the holy scriptures?
*Have you ever done your own research to find out the number of persons who have been born over the last 2000 years? If all of these persons were to be resurrected on earth, how many persons per square kilometre would there be given that there must also be land for non-residential uses such as food production, forests, hills, mountains, valleys, recreational areas, industrial activity, transportation infrastructure etc.? Would the number of persons living per square kilometre be ecologically sustainable?
*What would this mean if all of the dead since mankind’s beginning are to be resurrected on earth, will they plus all the JW Armageddon survivors fit? Would the number of persons living per square kilometre be ecologically sustainable?
*Would the earth look like what is portrayed in the WT’s depictions of the new system – luxury houses separated by many kilometres of parkland, a paradise of sparsely populated tracts of land, filled with smiling children living in mansions?
*Since no one will be dying in paradise and given your answers to the questions above, will there be room for any children given that:
 1. the WT’s depictions of the new system show that children will be living on the paradise earth?
 2. Isaiah 65:17- 25 which is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth states in verse 23: “They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth CHILDREN for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, and their OFFSPRING with them.”
*Are there scriptures which state that the earth will NOT last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
*Are there scriptures which state that the earth will last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
*What proof can you provide that we are living in the period that will see the feet of the image in the book of Daniel destroyed by God’s Kingdom?
*If you feel that life was better in the past compared to today, which century would you pick to live in?
*What will happen when God’s kingdom takes over?
*What else will happen apart from the accountability of the GB when Jesus comes at the Great Tribulation?
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:16 am
 
******If you feel that life was better in the past compared to today, which century would you live in AND WHY?
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:27 am
 
@dee. Hi Dee, in response to Gaic i think we need to let him find his way on his own terms. I know we all mean well and we all have had different measures of pain with the WT and being JW’s. Some have had extreme pain and some enjoyed their JW life but just realized it just isn’t true and could no longer go along with a fake lie and story and follow a cult. Gaic isn’t there yet so personally I think we should let him experience at his own pace. As far as all your scriptural questions there are many that talk about a New heaven and new earth where their will be no more pain and no more suffering we all know that from being JW’s and from reading the bible. Of course everything is subject to interpretation and this is not the place to argue doctrine. I am sure Gaic will find his way in his own time. We are here for support of people like him and others as well. I know Caroline also has had some bad experiences in the JW world and you as well and I myself have had lot’s of pain dealing and trying to sort out the JW lie so we all move at a different pace.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 3:27 pm
 
@Holy Connoli
I thoroughly agree with you that we need to let Giac find his/her own way on his/ her own terms. Allow me, please, to explain why I asked Giac those questions.
I have come to realize that many JWs (including myself) get lured into the religion because they come to believe that they will live forever on a paradise earth. I have even heard some JWs say that living forever on a paradise earth is more logical than going to heaven. This belief traps many persons in the religion and once hooked on this belief nothing else matters, they then accept everything else as gospel without question or they dismiss the lies, ever changing doctrines and false prophecies etc. of the GB as being due to the GB’s fallibility and after all, only the Pope has claimed to be infallible (but nevertheless this is still Jehovah’s organization).
They do not see the lies, false dates, false prophecies andvever changing doctrines etc. as a reason to leave the JWs. Any subsequent ‘refinement’ or revision of the JW’s doctrines is not a turn-off for them because the GB has never claimed to be infallible. The thing that matters the most to these JWs is that Armageddon is coming and they are never going to die but will live forever on a paradise earth.
Most JWs believe the WT’s promise of a paradise earth without doing their own research to see that it is not logistically possible for all the resurrected dead since mankind’s beginning plus the JW Armageddon survivors to fit on the earth and that this perhaps explains why Christians believe they will go to heaven.
Many after being shown the scriptures that the earth remains forever succumb to the WT’s mental gymnastics and accept that this is so and dismiss those scriptures which state that the earth will not last forever as being figurative. Getting persons to believe that the earth will remain forever is crucial if they are to believe that they will not die but will live forever on a paradise earth.
I therefore find it necessary to not only help JWs see that the GB has made false predictions, told lies and their ever changing doctrines but to also help JWs to see that the WT’s promise of a paradise earth is not possible as this promise is what traps many in the religion.
Regards.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:27 am
 
I no longer believe in organized religion. I read the Bible on my own, talk about God and Jesus to others and have some good discussions.
I realize that some people need the structure of organized religion and I do not fault them for that. But I do not believe that the JW religion is the Best or Closest thing to the truth.
I believe that there are so many good people within the world, some belong to organized religions, some don’t. Jesus died and sacrificed for everyone – not for just those of the witness religion.
But the witness religion still believes they are the only chosen people and have the truth – But other religions believe they are the only chosen people. God knows who his chosen people are – men don’t have that insight – in my humble opinion.
Reply
 
 
 Rae says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:18 pm
 
Good article, John. Until finding this website I was not aware of the number of silent sheep suffering behind the walls of the Kingdom Halls. Fear is such a wonderful thing. I’m sure that Jesus and his disciples used such tactics to keep their people in line too.
As bad as it is, I think this doubling down by the GB is a good thing. The closer an organization is to crumbling the more radical it becomes, the more oppressive it acts. Obviously the seams are coming apart on Star Ship Watchtower and its officers are franticly attempting to salvage whatever they can before it comes apart.
Yes, great harm is being caused by the dictatorial enforcement of non-biblical policy, ruining many lives in the process. May it soon end. At present we cannot stop the devastation that creates, but we can be there to assist the victims who greatly need our support.
While it’s true that many who leave Jehovah’s Witnesses lose believe in God, there are others who have given up on the Society but still hold belief in a higher deity… creator. Our battle then should be against the ruthless antics of the GB and the cancer they spread by false reasoning (dogma) and bullying threats.
Fear of eternal damnation keeps lots of people in line… not just witnesses. If we can somehow mitigate that fear down to a reasonable level, it may be possible to help a person get his or her life back. If we can help those persons wake up to the true power in their minds and the resilient spirit of their hearts… that there is a fulfilling life out there after Watchtower… it can go a long way to assisting with their recovery, and their taking the needed steps to get out from among them.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 3:04 pm
 
Lately what’s being demonstrated by some on the site is that without the Borg, you’ll eventually become a bitter Bible and its God thrasher. I hope people visiting this site don’t judge it by those comments.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
@Robert67:
Just wondering, what do you think of the comment posted by “RC” regarding the god of the Israelites and Abraham?
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:50 am
 
It wasnt a different God, just Elohim(hebrew word for God) If you read chapter 3 of Exodus there you have Elohim telling Moses that he was the Elohim of his forefathers and Ehyeh-Asher-ehyeh ( I AM) eventually in verse 15 when Moses wants a specific name to represent versus just Elohim( hundreds of Elohims worshiped in his day) or ehyeh-Asher-ehyeh showing bad grammar on his part, Elohim tells him that he is Yaweh, that is his name for all generations. Today some translate it as Jehovah, which I use, but also my God or my Elohim.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:12 am
 
Hi robert67,
 just have a look at this link. You may not agree with it but you may get an idea
contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 12:23 pm
 
@RC, very interesting notions on the possible origin story of the Southern tribes of Judah, I like the fact that atleast their existence at that point and time is acknowledged, unlike many other sources.
As far as the argument of the later compilation and motives for these, well, I know for a fact that I could destroy the entire biblical explanation by just tweaking here and there and inserting whatever hypothesis my imagination can conjure up. I don’t because I do for a fact believe in Christ and his word and he acknowledged many of the far flung narratives of the Hebrew Scriptures as being fact.
Luke 24:27,John 5:46,47 Jesus confirms Moses as author of the law.
Mathew 13:14-15 Jesus confirmed Isaiah as author of book of Isaiah
Mathew 24:15 Jesus confirmed Daniel as author of the book of Daniel
Mathew 19:4,5 ; 23:35 Jesus confirmed Adam and Eve as real people
Luke 17:26-28 Jesus refers to both Noah and Lot
John 8:56-58 Jesus confirms Abraham
Mark 10:6-9 Creation
Mathew 24:37-39 Great flood/ice age
Luke 17:29,32 Soddom and Gomorah
John 6:32 Feeding by Manna
John 3:14 Curing by serpent
Luke 4:25-27 Elijah and Elisha
Mathew 12:39,40 Jonah
In Mathew 4:4 he said
“It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.”
I cannot place the utterances, as well collected as they might be, of a man over those of what I have come to know as Gods word.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:07 pm
 
Robert, you confirmed what I was saying about it being men who wrote the Bible when you put down the scriptures where Jesus confirmed that Moses wrote the law and Isaiah wrote Isaiah and Daniel was the author of Daniel. Jesus didn’t say that Jehovah God wrote the Law and it wasn’t God who wrote Isaiah and it wasn’t God who wrote Daniel. Also, that is why the Hebrew Scriptures are very important to the Green Scriptures, as per the rest of the scriptures you listed. Without the Hebrew Scriptures, the Greek Scriptures are meaningless.

 
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:06 pm
 
@Robert67:
My question is with regard to “RC’s” comment made on November 6 at 2:53 pm.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 10, 2015 at 4:58 am
 
Robert67,
Yet another slander against us atheists, packaged in a passive aggressive comment.
I have at no time been a “bitter bible and its God thrasher”. That is a slanderous lie.
On the contrary, Robert, I hope that sincere Christians visiting this site are not stumbled by your unchristian behaviour!
It is you, Robert, who is a “basher”. All I have done is politely and respectfully highlighted for all the posters here your true, unchristian character, by contrasting your words and behaviour on this site with scriptures from the Holy Bible.
You have not had the courage or courtesy to address me directly, as I have with you.
You have not provided a rebuttal to my use of verses from the Holy Bible, and you have clearly not applied any of them, as you continue to slander atheists.
As you have absolutely no respect or regard for the teachings of Jesus Christ, or God’s word the bible, I am at a loss to describe you, Robert.
You certainly are not a Christian. You do not love God. These facts are clear for all to see. 1 John 4: 20
If anyone says, “I love God,” but keeps on hating his brother, he is a liar; for if he doesn’t love his brother who is right there in front of him, how can he love God whom he has never seen?
Living Bible Edition
Again, I would like an apology, please.
You have lost any credibility with me. You have confirmed to me that you are nothing but a sounding brass.
Why don’t you answer me directly, Robert?
Why don’t you give me your opinion on the scriptures that I quoted, Robert?
You really are making yourself look like a fool, Robert, I hope you comprehend that.
I await with interest, your direct response to my scriptural councel, rather than another tiresome, unchristian rant and slander against atheists.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:28 am
 
Sorry, folks, Robert67 accused us atheists of being “thrashers” not “bashers”
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:37 am
 
Still true. I do owe you one last response. You obviously have no clue about scripture, all it functions as for you is a stumbling block for yourself and a weapon to stumble others.
2 Timothy 3:16,17 as overused as it is by the WT states:
16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the MAN OF GOD may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
You are NOT a man of god, therefore what is written in it is not for you or your use.
The Bible in its entirety was not written to us, but for us, with the exception of Christ Gospel. Your just as guilty as the WT of trying to add meaning and interpretation to what is written in it.
You and others visit this site to twist scripture to indicate otherwise. Just like the WT cult, you prey on people with questions with the sole purpose of creating doubt in Gods word.
With this I fall back into the subject of this helpful article out of respect for its author.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:29 am
 
Robert, I want to add to Excelsior’s reply to your last comment as well. You said that “we” use the Bible as stumbling block and that is true for me at least. I think there are many good things in the Bible but I don’t take it as “inspired” of a perfect god but I also see a lot of terrible things in it as well.
Most atheists became atheists because they actually did read the Bible. That is what did it for me. But I believe that most so-called atheists are actually agnostic or would “believe” if there was any real evidence for a God.
We were always taught as Witnesses that God is from everlasting to everlasting and we puny humans can’t comprehend that and so we just accepted that and didn’t waste energy trying to understand that concept.
Nobody knows how life began and there are no original written records that we can get our hands on that explain when life began or how it began on the earth (the Bible isn’t the only book that has it’s ideas of Gods and how life began. There were many gods, way before the Bible was written).
If that was the case, it would end all debate on how life began on the earth or the universe but no such luck.
To me, it is a stupid debate to spend time debating how life began. We all know it is impossible to “create” life out of nothing. Everything on the earth came from a “parent” of some sort. To me to debate, how life began without any solid evidence is futile. I can’t even imagine any God doing it. It is way too far over my head just the same as imagining God being from everlasting to everlasting is over our heads.
For Bible readers, they simply take as fact that “poof”, God made it. That is too simple for me.
I think the most important thing is to appreciate that we were given the gift of life and we should make the most of our short years on this earth and try and leave this planet, having done something good for mankind, rather than debating how it began.

 
 
 
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:23 am
 
Hi Robert67,
 When i read the Bible i see a dichotomy of sorts between God the Father as defined by Christ and Yahweh. The Old testament seems to be filled with rape, murder , torture and brutalities which would horrify any one. I think the god mentioned in the old testament and the new are different. When i see the JW quoting extensively and reading from the Old testament , it really scares me . The JW seems to have been relatively harmless when it was under Pastor Russell and Rutherford.It turned into a cult under the leadership of Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz(who by all reports was half mad. That Raymond Franz was related to this joker is for me one of life’s greatest ironies).
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:10 am
 
I can’t name one group of people living during the same time as the Moses led Israelites that weren’t living in this environment and reacting to it in order to survive. These laws were meant to conduce these barbaric people’s into an evolution of sorts as pertains to their behavior. All irrelevant in 2015, unless your in the Middle East, North Korea, Watchtower or other barbaric parts of the world that still control their polulations through force. How can anyone have a hang up on a set of laws that were written to and for a people that lived 3,500 years ago? Focus on Christ and his message.
The Law of Moses was given to point people’s minds forward to Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah-to-come. Once he did come, the Law’s purpose was fulfilled, and it became obsolete. It was not destroyed, but superseded by a higher law, the law of the Gospel. A message of love above all things, Love to God foremost and then our neighbor.
We are stuck with the burden of having to cope with a vast diversity of Christian church’s. We have learned now,that one of the first disqualifying markers for any of these is to try to kill off the integrity of another. It’s a sibling rivalry amongst Christ followers to see who can get the most attention. Again, Focus on Christ message.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 10, 2015 at 1:35 pm
 
Robert, you ask “How can anyone have a hang up on a set of laws that were written to and for a people that lived 3,500 years ago?”.
I will tell you why I have a hang up on the Law given through Moses then, since you asked why since supposedly those laws were given to Moses from Jehovah God. What those people were doing around them in those lands, should not have influenced a perfect God.
1) The law given from Jehovah (supposedly) to Moses condoned human sacrifices: Lev. 27:29, Judges 11:29-39; Numbers 31:31-40
 2) Condoned and promoted animal cruelty: Joshua 11:6; 2 Samuel 8:4
 3) Condoned incest: Genesis 20:11,12
 4) Condoned and promoted slavery: Numbers 31:31-35; Lev. 25:44-45; Exodus 21:27; Eph. 6:5; 1 Tim. 6:1,2 (lots more scriptures about slavery)
 5) Condoned the abuse of slaves: Ex. 21:7, 20,21; Luke 12:47-48
 6) Condoned spousal and child abuse and abortion and rape: Numbers 5:5-31; Deut. 22:13-21, 28,29; Luke 12:47,48
 7) Condoned selling of a man’s children into slavery: Exodus 21:7 (part of the ten commandments)
 8) Condoned child molestation: Numbers 31:17,18
 9) Condoned murder: Exodus 17:13; 32:27; Numbers 21:3,35; Deut. 2:33-34; 3:6; 7:2; 20:16; Joshua 8:22-25; 10:27-40; 11:8-23; 1 Samuel 15:3,7,8
The Greek scriptures are meaningless without the Hebrew scriptures. It is supposedly the Hebrew Scriptures (the Law) are what pointed the way for Jesus Christ but according to what Jesus said at John 1:17,18, the truth was not through Moses:
“Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”
Moses claimed to see God but according to Jesus, no man has seen the Father.
Was the Bible written by men? There is not even one time in the whole Bible where it says that God either wrote or dictated directly any part of the Bible, even the ten commandments or any of the other commandments found in the Hebrew scriptures.
To draw attention to what the Bible says, is not trying to convince anybody not to believe in God and if people want to hang on to just the Greek Scriptures, I don’t care.
I know it gives a lot of comfort to people and I don’t want to take that away from them but on the other hand, they should know about what they believe in too.

 
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:57 am
 
Hi Robert67,
 Jesus never referred to God as Yahweh. It is the JW who have inserted that in the NWT 237 times in the belief that since Jesus had spoken of the God of Abraham and Issac , it is right to assume that the word “Jehovah” was used in the Greek Scriptures initially and so they were thrilled to discover that they after 2000 years were restoring the Divine Name. If the JW could make this error after having so many resources , what would have stopped the early Bible writers to attribute the God of Abraham and Issac to Jesus . Remember, the Bible writers were all influenced by the sociological and political climates of their times. The Bible leads you to the Man (Christ) who leads you to God. Not the other way round.
Also you mention some cultures being barbaric in the present day. I will not dispute this however i will bring it to your attention that the JW considered the Babylonian civilization to be nothing more than savages. So it was easy for them to add 20 years to the Destruction of Jerusalem . Unfortunately for them, the Babylonian civilization was very advanced for its age as the unearthing of the cuneiform tablets show. It is now undisputed that the destruction of Jerusalem was in 587 B.C not 607 B.c .This truth helped Carl Olof Jonsonn to get out the cult. There are archaelogical discoveries being made which show that the God of the Cannanite Religion was EL , not Yahweh. Also , El (and in later days Yahweh) was mentioned as the husband of Asherah . The concept of One God started during the reign of King Josaih and solidified during the exile.
Also, Jesus born of the line of David may not have been as far flung as you may think. Considering that 5% of the world current population is descended from Genghis Khan , with the number of partners David had (probably in the hundreds) , his descendants would have really made a sizeable population of the Jews.

 
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
In response to comment, that you can’t think of one group of people who lived at time of Moses, who were not barbarians, …who was Job, Elihu, and for that matter the 3 friends. They did seem to have some respectably values.

 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:25 am
 
@RC
Are you an atheist?
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:02 am
 
Hi dee,
 No i am not an atheist. I believe in God. It is out of respect for the rules of this blog i have not discussed my beliefs about God. It is when i saw the disturbing way Abraham’s story was being used by JW did i feel compelled to say something about it. Apologies to John Redwood , but i think he was really disturbed as much as i was.

 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:28 am
 
@RC
Are you an ex-JW?

 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:34 am
 
@RC
Are you an ex-JW?
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:49 am
 
Hi dee,
 sorry i have posted below my response. But no i am not an ex-JW.

 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
Old Testament time compared to ours was far different. At the time many people on earth lived in the Middle East. Life was cheap. People were worshipping false Gods and their laws were perverted. There was very little knowledge around. Morals were non existent.
Just look at what has happened in the Middle East recently and you can see what the people were like who lived round about the Israelites. God had promised a savior through the line of David. The Jews had to be protected at all costs, and protected from remaining uncontaminated with false teachings. God’s ways of doing things probably shocks a lot of people, but perhaps that was what was needed at the time. Remember there is a time for every season.
Jesus came and corrected all that stuff. He showed by his example how caring people should be of others. All the other stuff is important but that is not the focus right now. Especially now in this cold hearted world, do we need that love that Jesus lived by. Woops, sorry I’m getting preachy again. Sorry Lloyd.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:03 am
 
Ive thought about all of this and it is just a thought Maybe the whole elaborate jewish system was just to protect the DNA blood line of Jesus. All the other jews got the benefit of the law if they stuck to the rules but they mostly were just as degenerate as the tribes surrounding them. They just had more rules to obey which made them act crazy. (any parallells?).Any way if this was true JC came did his job game over the Hebrew script becomes historic and interesting but no longer applicable. So to the enlightened new Christian all those petty rules and blood lust becomes distasteful and foreign. So if we start to cherrypick the old ways and follow a few of the rules from back then, then we will start to mimic their attitude and behaviour ie brutal, vengeful, and it serves no purpose it is dead end and annihilistic.The new freedom in Christ was to liberate and centered on people working things out for themselves but as always mankind wants to dominate and control.So we are back to square one with this little sect. A bunch of sincere people who have gone mad and crazy with the endless rules and petty laws that have no bearing on christian life. To me nothing changes same daft stuff, different set of people.The only difference now is that we can break free but its a slow process and painful at times. Just a word to the athiests and the believers. Just chill stop bickering we are trying to get along with each other just agree to differ .As iv’e said before i have a strong faith but i really do like to hear what non believers think because they have a different take on the bible and have clear logical arguments which Imight have been closed to. SO lets try to keep the peace and enjoy alternative viewpoints it makes for such interesting reading and no one is going to convert the other thats not the point. thanks folks. ruthlee

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:46 am
 
ruthlee, it is so funny but the thought of protecting the bloodline for Jesus is exactly what I was thinking about last night and so I looked up the account of Judah who is named at Matthew 1:3 as an ancestor of Jesus at Genesis chapter 39.
Here is the account of how Judah “took” a Canaanite woman and she bore him three sons. Then Judah “took” a wife (Tamar) for his oldest son Er but Jehovah didn’t like Er so Jehovah killed Er before Tamar had children by Er. Then the second son was supposed to have relations with Tamar but he wasted his semen on the ground so Jehovah killed that one too.
Then Tamar was supposed to wait for the youngest son to grow up to have relations with her but Judah didn’t fulfill his promise because he was afraid something bad would happen to that boy too.
All that time, Tamar was living with her own father but was not supposed to marry another man because she was supposed to be bringing up a man child from her first husband Er.
In time, Judah’s wife died and so he had relations with Tamar (thinking she was a harlot) and got her pregnant (not knowing because she covered her face). When Judah found out that Tamar had gotten pregnant, he said she was to be “burned” (Gen. 38:24) because she had committed prostitution.
But going back in Genesis 38:21 this is what it says in the NWT “And he (Judah) went inquiring of the men of her place, saying: “Where is that temple prostitute in Enaim along the road?” But they kept saying: “No temple prostitute has ever been in this place.”
Notice that Judah wanted to have Tamar “burned” because he thought she had committed an act of prostitution, but in verse 21, Judah is asking about a “temple prostitute” that he had had intercourse with.
Did we ever pay any attention to the fact that they had “temple” prostitutes then, even before the Exodus account where the freed Israelites were to build a temple to Jehovah? Did we pay any attention the word “temple” there? Did we ever pay any attention to the fact that Judah wanted his daughter-in-law burned for prostitution, when he had committed an act of prostitution himself? Did we not see that it was perfectly alright for them to have temple prostitutes then? Did we ever think about how hypocritical and disgusting this man was who was an ancestor of Jesus?
Would a perfect God “protect” the seed of the Jews through a man like this? Why would it be okay for the temple of Jehovah God have temple prostitutes? Why would be okay for a perfect God to allow for the men to go to prostitutes but if his daughter-in-law played a prostitute, she should have been burned?
Why doesn’t the Society talk about any of these things? No they don’t. As a matter of fact, I remember not that many years ago at a district convention, they had a drama about Judah and Tamar like it was all a good thing that Judah and Tamar did. There was not a word at how disgusting a man, Judah was. Why did they do that? It was for the very same reason that you mentioned in your comment; it was to protect the lineage of Jesus blood line. Couldn’t Jehovah have chosen a better character than Judah to produce the “seed” through Abraham?
If you start bringing up questions about this to your elders, you will be called on the carpet and to “trust” in Jehovah but what they really mean is to trust in the Society instead. Whatever excuse the Society comes up with for a disgusting character such as Judah, we are to accept as the “gospel” and not to question it.
We are not to “think” about anything we read in the Bible. We are to let the Society do all the thinking for us; in other words, we have to be brain dead to be a Witness and if not and we start asking questions, we will be kicked out and shunned.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 7:31 am
 
I forgot to add something to my reply to ruthlee about the account of Judah and Tamar. Tamar was three months pregnant when Judah wanted Tamar burned. In the United States, when somebody murders a pregnant woman, that person is charged with the murder of two people (the mother and the innocent child as well), not just the one.
This is the person (Judah) that the Society decided to have a drama about at the district assembly a few years ago. I remember it well. If there was a movie about such a happening today, it would surely be rated R for sex and violence.

 
 
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:25 pm
 
Well stated! The doubling down is indeed causing many to simply walk away. It is at that critical moment that many are turning to websites like this.
 This past weekend my inactive mother in law was talking to my true believer sister in law about a faithful witness family they know. I over heard as I walked by but the family that left were faithful for years and just suddenly stopped attending meetings and service. When they were asked why they said ” the witnesses are a cult and we want nothing to do with that”. Just like that an entire family left the cult in an instant. All because the information is available for them to research but also, this can’t be minimized, because the gb are narcissistic sociopaths tightening their grip. They have themselves to blame for many leaving and they are so arrogant that they can’t see it. Like all cults they blame a scapegoat, apostates or satan.
Reply
 
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
Greetings,
Let me start by saying I realize my comment is not relevant to the article. However this is an attempt to address a couple things mentioned in the comments. I am not a defender of the org but credit where credit is due. I missed the meeting about the go bags but I’m assuming this has to do with disasters. If you live in an area prone to disasters and who doesn’t with all the things that happen, a go bag is a good idea. In the past I have assisted with disaster relief and have seen people with only the shirts on their back. At least a little preparation is a good idea. You all know the drill, water, batteries, flashlights, phone numbers and so on. Keep meds and important papers handy and ready to grab. That’s common sense. A comment was also made with respect to insurance proceeds. One disaster situation I helped with some of the witnesses thought their insurance money was so they could go on vacation. Your insurance settlement is to restore your financial situation regarding your property. When the brothers put that new roof and siding on your home you should pay for it. That’s what your insurance is for. It really doesn’t matter how the society uses it, you did benefit. The brothers also feed hundreds of volunteers that come to provide relief. Some of the friends open their homes to the volunteers so at times they receive funds to provide meals at their home. I agree the society is spending too much time asking for money and I for one don’t intend to pay for child abuse settlements, but when it comes to disasters and insurance, if you are the beneficiary of their assistance it would be most appropriate to hand the money over. Remember you can use anyone you want to do your repairs. You are not obligated to use the brothers. Ask yourself would any other contractor work for nothing. Regards
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:12 pm
 
@eyes opened
Thanks for your comment.
I think the WTBTS makes it difficult for persons to make fair comments about their financial situation as the WTBTS is averse to making audited financial statements available to the public.
 This was also evident from the May 2015 JW Broadcasting episode done by GB member Stephen Lett in which he stated that more money was going out than coming in yet no actual numbers of income and expenditure were provided so that viewers could see what the projected shortfall is.
Without the WTBTS’ transparency regarding their financials persons can only imagine and guess what is going on with donations and wonder if the GB has something to hide why the WTBTS is not transparent with its financials regarding the worldwide work.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:52 pm
 
@ eyes opened, here in the U.S. when Catrina struck, there were a lot of brothers and sisters who had to wait and wait until the Witnesses could come and do the work and the Society made that clear to those Witnesses that they were to wait to have the Society’s workers do the work.
I agree, that the insurance money was to go for the work and the homeowners should not have kept the money but the Society gains very much when there is a disaster like that and they benefit from all the “free” labor that the brothers and sisters put in to fix up those homes.
If fair is fair, then those brothers and sisters should have gotten the money for their work. That is my point.
The Society expects that there will be lots of brothers and sisters flooding to the disaster area to help rebuild but that work isn’t done because they are a charity. It is charitable on the backs of brothers and sisters helping out the Society, not the householders.
That work is done so the Society can get money out it by all the free labor done by the brothers and sisters. It is the motive of “helping” is my problem. They aren’t good for goodness sake. They are good for the money they can get and many times, those brothers and sisters have to wait months and months to have the Society’s free labor force to come and work on their homes. It isn’t charity. It’s a way to make money off of a disaster.
Reply
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 9, 2015 at 6:37 pm
 
Caroline You make good points. If the friends felt they had to wait on the society for repairs, that does kind of smack of greed. There is just no perfect solution. Regards
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Ace says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:01 pm
 
Hey everyone so I had the worst Sunday this week during the watchtower study. It really made me mad and I really have a hatred for the GB now. In the September 15, 2015 study edition the chapter titled ‘Is your conscience a reliable guide’ on paragraph 12 it asks “Does my conscience move me to shun sports that are aggressive, competitive, nationalistic, or violent?” So now we can’t even play or waych our favorite sports sich as football or basketball amd I love football and soccer. This is getting really ridiculous it really is. These stupid, extravagant, absurd rules are ruining lives. First we myst disown people who defy “Jehovah”, even family, then we have to dress according to the GB’s liking, now we can’t support any sports because of the competitiveness and aggressiveness. I bet if they catch us we’ll be disfellowshipped right? So God hated people who play a sport and they deserve to be punished? How can any JW after reading that lesson believe that these are “Jehovah’s” standards? I read the whole bible and it says in proverbs there are 7 things God hates. Pride, gluttony, envious individuals, laziness, greed, wrathful individuals, and lustful individuals. How can he hate a sport but love the fat slobs that come and give those talks and demonstrations on stage. This is going too far and needs to be stopped. My friend just got Disfellowshipped and my sister has before. I speak for us who have the experience even though I’m 18 and I pray for all of you. The GB have to be stopoed. I’ll be actively posting I enjoy talking to others with the same views.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:27 pm
 
I have yet (being a member of numerous Spanish speaking congregations) to meet an elder that is not an absolute Futbol fanatic. Meeting at homes wearing jerseys, stickers on cars, knowing season long stats. I also know for a fact that they consider themselves an exception to any of these rules meant for the lowly rank and file only. Real Madrid!
Reply
 
 
 
 Anthony says:

 November 10, 2015 at 1:58 am
 
To caroline.
I know you ask,d me to continue posting comments on this website for which I do appreciate you doing.
However, Just letting you and others know that this is my final post now.
I really don’t like revisiting or living past lives to much if I can help it.
Any post that I did post was to share a little of my past experience within the JW organization, Which may be of help to others.
What I don’t want, Or never intended to do was to get to involved or stay on the site for to long.
There are a lot of people on this site, Who for some reason cannot move forward, And are trapped in the past, living lives behind anonymous names.
Not going to let that happen to me, I always speak my mind.
But as soon as people try to stop you from speaking your mind, And saying what you see going on all round, Both within the JWs and the people on JW survey, Then its time to move on.
I won’t allow myself to become mentally trapped or institutionalized again either by the JWs, Or JW survey users.
I will always be a free thinker, And and will always speak my mind.
There are a lot of people on this site who cannot move beyond the JWs without having hate inside them, Who also don’t like you speaking your mind either.
They run down the JWs for stopping them from thinking freely, Yet they do exactly the same as the JWs, Even hiding behind anonymous name’s as well.
A bit creepy that is.
I am not going to let that happen to me, And I hope others can move on as well for there own benefit.
Regarding MC hammer, I thought he had a lot of personal mixed up issues going on in his head, And I really hope he moves on from them, Despite the way MC Hammer came over, Along with any personal issues of his, I felt he really spoke his mind 100% in every way, And said what he thought.
No matter what anyone says about MC, No matter what issues he has, Up to now, I respect him the most for his honestly on things, Nobody can take that from him.
I won’t be visiting this site again after this post.
Regards to you all.
Anthony.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 4:14 pm
 
@Anthony
‘Searcher’ gave a very good response below, to your comments here. I will not rehash those comments except to just mention that some of the persons who comment on this site are still JWs in the organization. They find it necessary to hide behind anonymous names as otherwise, if their true identities are known they risk being disfellowshipped and being shunned/cut-off from family and friends who remain in the org.
Thanks for having taken the time to share. You gave a very important and valuable reminder in the previous post:
“Be more in control of who you let into your life”.
Do take care. All the best.
 Regards.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:43 pm
 
I also like: “Life is not a rehearsal”.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:13 am
 
Hi Anthony,
 First that teaching of “paradise earth” is not as harmless as you think. It is the hook which is used to entice many people into JW. Any person who fears death to an unnatural degree and if he comes into contact with JW, imagine the consequences . First of all , the fear is exacerbated by showing the person about the threat of so-called coming Armageddon and then offer him the carrot of paradise earth. It is enough to shatter any man’s identity by then.There are 3 steps (in a broader sense) mentioned in Steve Hassan’s book to gain control of a person’s mind :- unfreezing,changing and refreezing. This teaching is used by the JW in the first step.
As for the pain i caused my cousin, do you think anybody who has left this cult has not paid their price in pain? One of the major characteristics of a cult is there is no graceful way out. Raymund Franz paid his price.So did Carl Olof Jonsonn. So did Karen Morgan. So did Barbara Anderson. So did Cedars . So did Paul Grundy. And these people are recognizable. What about the unnamed , unknown persons who have left or trying to leave?
Also after seeing the child abuse trials in Australia , which sane person would not try and get his family member out of this cult ? The magnitude of this problem even Raymund Franz and Carl Olof Jonsonn were unable to accept, that the truth was much worse than even they imagined.
Reply
 
 no name says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:00 am
 
Whatever makes you happy rc.
Its your obsession.
All the best.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:24 am
 
I agree with you. There is an old saying, “You attract a whole lot more bees with honey than with vinegar.” When dealing with people that I disagree with, I found out that out the hard way too many times, ruining an opportunity to converse with the person. Now, when dealing with an insulting person, I usually ignore them when I can. That’s more poisonous to them because they can’t get a rise out of you.

 
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:50 am
 
Thank you Anthony.

 
 
 
 you know who says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:53 pm
 
Your welcome rc.
All the best.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 John Walsh says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:25 am
 
Well written John, and shows your depth of experience.
 The modern day equivalent of Abrahams sacrificing his son is of course Jdub parents withholding the good chance of saving their child’s life with a blood transfusion.
 The main difference if you believe in the bible and it’s stories, is that Abraham actually knew he was sacrificing to his God, and had the confidence that interacting personally with his God would provide.
 By contrast Jdubs are just ‘Flying By The Arse Of Their Pants’ with sheer faith in 7 men and their writings.
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:18 am
 
I thought I would add to the pervious comments about the relief work in connection to hurricane Katernia.
 There were 5000+ witnesses that came from all over, some spending more then a year helping out. It was truly a beautiful thing.
 But, on the other side….Little known, the Society made a boat load of money off this…Congregations all over sent in 1000’s in immediate money’s, companies both jw/nonjw Contributed goods and services, when a home was repaired the publisher on completion got a breakdown of “costs” ie..bill..of course they didn’t have to pay it, but it was known who did and didn’t, furthermore if the homeowner recived a insurance payout, they were visited by a couple of local brothers connected to the relief committee to remind them of what was done, of course all that money flowed directly to headquarters. ..
 I don’t want to piss on the sacrifices that individuals made, because they really did give it all they had. I just feel the organization “took advantage of the situation” and has been less then honest about what it really “cost” them.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:44 pm
 
Thank you for mentioning this. I was involved in many relief efforts and one thing that is clear is that it cost the branch nothing. They made a killing because the labor was/is all free. I would also like to add that they made liberal use of materials that were provided by the government and other relief agencies so its not like the disaster victims were reimbursing for materials either.
 It’s presented one way in their videos and magazines. The reality is much different. Especially when you talk to those that were actually there.
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:36 am
 
Here are my thoughts about this article, Doctrine and Loyalty Whatever the Cost. I love it. You see this article is an expression of Thought of people in the process of waking up. That is why it is so good. All of us will need emotional support and will deal with negative feelings. I compare all of this to when my Leg was amputated when I was ten years old. I felt negative about my leg and I had a chip on my shoulder for several years. But something positive came from it. I received help from the state to get vocational skills. At the time I had to go to vocational school to keep disability. I wanted to pioneer. Thank goodness my parents didn’t want me to lose disability. The reaction to Waking up reminds me of when I lost my leg. It becomes a positive experience because reality is so much better than living the lie.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:59 am
 
@Alexandria R
I like your positive energy/ your positive perspective and that good does indeed come from adversity as the saying goes.
Regards.
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:59 am
 
My family Being so dedicated to a religion impacts my life as much as my leg. Each individual deals with waking up at their own speed. And nobody is wrong when it comes to their own speed as they personally deal with being awake.
Reply
 
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
Hi dee,
 no i am no ex-JW. My cousin has been in this cult for more than 7 Years . I knew vaguely that he was involved with some Christian Missionaries that was the sum of my knowledge till last year. When his father told me about JW then i decided to see what this was all about. I walked into KH with my cousin and frankly came back impressed. However after interacting with my cousin i found some abnormalities in his behaviour. Decided to read about JW and to my horror found the truth about it. Karen Morgan , barbara anderson, raymund franz,paul grundy and cedars himself along with taze.co. Finally the child abuse trials. Decided no matter what i am getting my cousin out. Have been trying to do that for the last few months.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:28 am
 
@RC
I gather that you are not an atheist but you are a non-Christian who was never a JW. Thanks for your non-atheist, non-Christian comments regarding the way in which Abraham’s sacrifing his son was used by the WT to make their point.
I personally welcome all perspectives and all viewpoints be they from atheists, non-atheists, Christians, non-Christians as it is my personal belief that if one is to find his/her own truth, then one must consider all angles, all viewpoints, all perspectives, all sides of the story in order to find their own truth.
It is my personal belief that it is up to each individual to do their own research of all the viewpoints, all the perspectives, all the angles and all sides of the story, come to their own conclusions and find their own truth. It is for refusing to do this why I ended up in the JW religion only to discover that it nothing but crap.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:17 am
 
Hi dee,
 Well you are out now. Hope my cousin does too. I have no problems to what my cousin decides is the truth as long it is not JW.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:47 am
 
@Anthony,
You are correct, we that were indoctrinated for so long do need to move on and possibly forgive to some degree. However, due the damage and harm that this destructive cult has inflicted on so many for over a century now, it’s hard to not harbor ill feelings toward it and its deluded, greedy, power hungry leaders.
Part of the healing is to deal with the anger, sadness, family neglect, shunning, ect. that comes from waking up from the cult’s indoctrinations, then breaking away from its clutches on our minds and lives. Cedars has done a great service to us all to give a place to ‘vent’ some of this anger and then share wisdom from one another to move on. I call myself ‘Searcher’ because I continue to search for the right place to call ‘my own’, not the ‘truth’s own’. I have had so much encouragement and insight over the past two years that I have posted here. I continuously get encouragement from Cedars and the other authors here on the JWSurvey site. All the people posting here have helped regardless if they are atheist or spiritual. I don’t really care what they believe, I just want to be there for them as they have listened to me. Yes, some can be juvenile or bat-sh## crazy, but that is to be expected in an open blogging forum. I tend to ignore that and other petty squabbles. Sometimes, I get a good laugh at them too. I just hope that all who have broken free get the mental and emotional freedom they are entitled to have.
You want to move on quickly, and I respect that. You are a strong one to get over the hump of anger and resentment so soon. I hope that continues for you, but others have a long process, and that’s because we are all different. That just makes the world go ’round, blah blah blah. I could go on.
Basically, forgiveness and moving on is hard for all of us. Forgiveness is not just for the person you forgive, but more so for the forgiving person to free his/her self from the burden of anguish and hate they harbor. It may take a while for some people, but I’m glad that they have a place to vent it in a healthy way (I’m stressing ‘healthy’ here).
To John Redwood, thanks for the thought provoking article. To Cedars (Lloyd) thanks for the service and place that you have provided for so many here.
Reply
 
 
 Ace says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:57 pm
 
Hi guys I’m 18 and a JW. After reviewing all this info im convinced that this cult is not “the true religion.” I wish I never got baptized but you can’t change the past. The elders in my hall want me to become a ministerial servant and I don’t know what to do. My plan is to transfer halls and just stop going because I can’t get disfellowshipped. I also found an interesting piece of info about where Jehovah came from. His name was a catholic invention. How can they claim to be a true religion when they shun family and close friends, they lie and say that they are mediators of Jesus, and they steal from other religions in order to persuade others? Cedar in the article it’s true and I see how my family has lost there freedom to think for themselves. It’s also very sad how my “worldy” friends treat me so much better than my own family. How is it even possible to manipulate 8 million people and take away someones free mind?
Reply
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:40 am
 
Ace, you’re not alone. Me to Ace, for me Getting df’d isn’t an option. I’m not willing to go out of my comfort zone and it’s important to me to happily live with myself. Ace, be happy all the time. The secret to happiness is keeping bitterness out of your life. It’s all in the mind. Wow, you’re not a kid any more. Don’t allow others stress to stress you. JWs are stressed. It took time for me to learn to stay away from them. I completely have now stopped going to meetings. I love my new found freedom. I’m trying to warn you. Don’t be bitter. That’s a waste of energy and time. Be happy.
Reply
 
 
 
 Kat says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:06 pm
 
Takes awhile after waking up to move on, I think many need help from those that are going through the same thing, its called encouragement, understanding and non judgemental feed back.
Some become activists these ones usually have a huge sense of justice, not so much bitterness and hate, but hate rather what the GB has done to the many mislead and deceived JW, for most of us it includes our families, we are torn.
Its sites like these and others that really do help those feeling lost and alone to have communication with others that understand, and the information helps rid many of the cob webs of indoctrination over time.
Everyone is not on the same time span, some have left for years, others are just starting to wake up, some are fading, others been DF and so forth, so not everyone is at the same stage, so we need to respect that and be kind to one another.
Keep up this life saving work all those that contribute articles, videos and sites, and all the comments that help also.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 11, 2015 at 9:42 am
 
Spot on Kat…exactly how I feel…Im waking up over the last few years and its been a shocker in more ways than one!…. 55 years of mind control gone…it can have a very strange effect on a person…and a shock to fin the real authentic you…and I like her! Lets not judge one another…we have had enough of that already.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:57 pm
 
Idontknowhatodo
 55 years of mind control – wow, you have done so well to finally wake up! I had 30 years of it and as you say it’s a shocker when you discover the truth.
 When people in the world sometimes commented on how we were “a nice family”, I used to say it was “because we are Jehovah’s witnesses”. Now we can still be a nice family because of who we are, the real authentic us! Yes, it’s good to find our real selves again.
 Oh, and I agree, we’ve all had enough of the criticism and judgemental attitude.
 Let’s get back to ‘Desiderata’.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:54 pm
 
Whenever their is a secret problem in the congo, they sat that the holy spirit will eventually expose it, well i read many coments for people here who are still in the org but also like me look & comment on the so called apostate site, why arent we caught.
Reply
 
 
 Mona Millet says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:00 am
 
Whoa! The first 25 years of my life in a nutshell!! I, too, have family on my father’s side whom I’ve never met. I have a few vague memories of the ones I DID meet, but not much after early childhood. He never came into “the truth” but my mother did and so everything the joint families had done before like holidays, birthdays and such was consequently branded “evil”. Once that happened, I’m assuming they just didn’t want to hang out with us anymore. Who could blame them?
 My mother was a wonderful woman – probably the best person I’ll know my whole life – but she was completed blinded and brainwashed by an organization that promised all the answers. Even when 1975 came and went, she stayed strong and was proud of that fact. In the last years of her life, she’d gotten much more relaxed about the rules. I’d left the org by then, but she continued to associate with me anyway. She was well loved in the congregation and in our town, I’m sure it’s why she didn’t end up in a judicial meeting!! Only one brother of mine remains a JW, out of 3. I’m not even sure about him as, obviously, we haven’t spoken for years.
 People who’ve heard a little about JWs or who may even think they know a lot have no idea of the damage they’ve done, and continue to do to families and people’s lives in general. It’s amazing how a group who claim to be so full of love can have such a foundation of hate, deceit and mistrust.
 Thank you for your article!!
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 11, 2015 at 3:34 am
 
To the dear Christians on this site,
Our dear friend Robert67 has raised an interesting theological point in his reply to me.
His argument is that non believers cannot apply the bible be use they don’t believe in God.
Obviously, dear Robert67 is not implying that I cannot read, so it must be that I am incapable of discerning the correct meaning of the bible, due to my non belief in God.
What do you think?
All you dear Christians have read my scriptural arguments. So, I would ask you to pray and consider whether I was wrong to urge dear Robert67 to show love and politeness in his comments.
Another tired argument is that I am a hypocrite for not applying the councel to myself. I’m sorry, but I am under no obligation to follow the bible’s morality in my life, whereas anyone professing to follow Christ is under obligation to follow all of it!
I have just been awarded a huge new contract, and so I shall not be able to devote as much time to this site as I have done before.
I must admit that I am relieved. It has not been much fun having to step up and hold to account individuals like PB and our dear friend Robert67 with no assistance save for some remarkable exceptions.
I will continue to read the articles and, if I have time, I shall comment as before.
I used to enjoy commenting on this site. It used to be a positive experience and I thought that I was achieving some good.
Now I find myself abused, accused of things I have not done and I am not getting any benefit out of it at all.
I leave you in the capable hands of many posters who are here to help, not divide.
So long, folks!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:53 am
 
Dear Excelsior, I am glad for you with your big contract, but please come back soon! I am not a “Christian” but I will miss your comments!! Thanks for sticking up for us non Christians too. Take care. Caroline.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
You have a long history of insightful comments on many subjects, Excelsior. It’s a shame that your time recently had to be diverted to unpleasant but necessary tasks. Congratulations on your success outside of the JW cult.
Of course, as you know, Hairy Fairy is Pickled Brain, who–believe it or not–wants to add something negative to this occasion.
Come back as often as you can, Excelsior. And sincerely, peace be with you, my friend.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:13 am
 
Moderator, thank you very much for your quick response.
Please disregard my reference to a comment that no longer exists, folks.
Reply
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:44 am
 
@Excelsior!
 I for one, enjoy your posts and always use them to question my own faith in God at least and why I believe in him. There are plenty of lovely individuals who don’t believe in God as well you know. Please don’t be offended by Robert67. He means well I would like to believe, and he seems to have a genuine love for God and is very zealous about it.
 Huge congrats on your new contract. I wish you every success as I’m sure you will have with your excellent reasoning and community contribution skills.
 In the immortal words of Spock: “Live Long & Prosper”!
Reply
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 11, 2015 at 9:34 am
 
Dont go for long Excelsior….I have always benefited from your advice and feel like us atheists are getting persecuted off the site if you leave!
 I dont think our friend meant you to leave for good but I do believe you have the right to use his chosen moral compass to question his attitude to yourself and others who dont believe in a God anymore….
I just think we are all victims and including a bit of debate…should stick together…
I will miss you…
Wrll done with your new contract
 Peace be with YOU!
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:29 am
 
Hi Excelsior,
I hate to hear that you are leaving. You had some very salient points and responses. I think that your input far outweighs any insult or challenge that is leveled at you. I wish you would stay and not give an insulting person any gratitude, but you have to make that choice.
Best of luck to you and I wish you well.
Reply
 
 
 Cedars says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
Excelsior, PB was dealt with and continues to be dealt with (Hairy Fairy is the latest incarnation, apparently the penny hasn’t yet dropped that we can spot this person’s comments a mile off and will delete any we suspect him/her to have authored, regardless of rotating IP addresses).
As to your interactions with other users – we have very clear posting guidelines and we appreciate the cooperation of our visitors in enforcing them (since we cannot patrol the comments sections 24/7). If someone posts a comment that violates our posting guidelines we appreciate a quick “heads up” email, whereupon we will generally – but not always – give the violator the opportunity to correct their behavior before blocking.
Either the other individual has said something genuinely offensive and outrageous, or we are talking about a heated difference of opinion.
Either way, you are a valued visitor to this website, and aside from your personal commitments I hope you will continue to share your voice on our pages.
Reply
 
 you know who says:

 November 11, 2015 at 12:52 pm
 
Cedars big brother.
Your not God.
You won’t be getting anymore postings from me big boss.
There is (right) and there is ( wrong )
You ought to know how to make that distinction.
I am sure you have good qualities about you as well ? I think ?
Who knows ? One day in a million years from now when we have all grown up and learned how handle disputes more effectively, we may get along.
At present all you have done is abandon one set of narrow minded religious beliefs to that of your own.
Apart from that, credit were its due, The web site has helped people as well, That’s a ( Good thing )
No need to justify your actions Lloyd.
Deep down I love absolutely everyone, Including you lloyed.
A bible verse that comes to mind is, He that dose not love has not come to know God, because Gods greatest quality is love.
Thank you for your valued input, blaah blaah blaah.
To you Mr MC HAMMER, grow up, leave the people alone, things will turn out the way they will turn out, there’s nothing you or anyone can do to change that.
Leave them alone.
To you Lloyd, was that an apology ??? I will take it as one.
All the best.
You know who.
Reply
 
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:35 am
 
In response to comment, that you can’t think of one group of people who lived at time of Moses, who were not barbarians, …who was Job, Elihu, and for that matter the 3 friends. They did seem to have some respectably values.
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:41 am
 
Wow, my last comment was meant for a reply to a much earlier post, and pretty much is way you out of order..lol.
 But, I for one appreciated Excelsior comments too..
Reply
 
 
 
 Don't Want To Say My Name says:

 November 11, 2015 at 12:26 pm
 
To Excelsior et al
Excelsior your input to this site will be greatly missed, but I am happy to hear the good news about your new contract.
I too have found the recent insults very off-putting and they made me reluctant to comment again, especially when relating personal experiences.
I have commented previously under another name, but due to the afore-mentioned reason, coupled with the fact that I have family waking up I have chosen to post without saying my name.
My comment in support of RC on another article that drew another posters wrath, was made because I found his remark to RC offensive and un-called for. I am not an argumentative or confrontational person, so have no desire to get drawn into an argument.
I have not been associated with the JWs for many years and I am very busy leading a non-JW life, so do not spend my time obsessing about the JW Org. However due to the cult I have been deprived of my family for many years, a fact that I am very angry about.
Like many others here who have commented, any time that I did have contact with JW family then I could not discuss religion with them as it only shut off the limited communication that I had with them.
I long for the day to come when JW Org is exposed for the fraud that it is and my family and others are finally freed from the destructive brain washing control that the Cult has over them. Sadly though it could never bring back the decades of lost family relationships.
Reply
 
 you know who says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:28 pm
 
To
I don’t want to say my name.
Judging by your last/this post of yours, I know you ment well by your initial comment, you should have questioned my motives first though, before branding me another ( dare I say person ) when that’s exactly what people do on this site themselves.
There was absolutely no wrath on my part, Just another voice, Just another opinion, From a person who genuinely ment well to begin with, who also had his own past issues with the JWs.
Its a great shame, because there were so many experience I seen going on with the JWs which I was debating with myself whether to disclose them or not, Which I felt would have been a big help to everyone, However, You made the decision for me , I to don’t like revealing things to people I don’t know either, Or really got to trust.
Hope your family issue work out, And really do meen that.
Its a good thing that Lloyd or you block’d my post, Since just about everything these days gets misread.
All the best.
Reply
 
 Don't Want To Say My Name says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
Anthony I presume
I was moved to make the comment to RC after I read your first post to Alanv to which Tiger responded and then saw your next comment to RC.
Whilst everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, I do not think it is helpful to be insensitive to others, or to condemn them for their actions.
There had been a lot of insults being traded here recently and having read in a previous comment what RCs motive was for following this site, I felt he/she should be offered encouragement, not singled out for criticism.
I am glad you apologised to RC and if I classed you in the same category as others who have been insulting when this was not your intention, then I too apologise and hope you will feel that you can continue commenting and sharing any experiences that may help others reading this site.
Cedars site is invaluable for helping anyone with issues relating to the JWs and unfortunately some recent comments have been very off-putting and probably play into the stereo-type that the GB like to portray that apostates are bitter and mentally diseased.
As I said before, I do not wish to get embroiled in confrontation – I had enough of that with the JWs; so in the words of another commentator
Peace be with you.
Reply
 
 N/A says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:07 pm
 
That’s fare enough but don’t be running me down please,, Especially after I posted some of my own experiences.

 
 
 N/A says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:16 pm
 
Thanks for the apology, Not sure if I could ever post Any personal comments again after this experience, I had less trouble when I was with the JWs.
I would rather argue my point out of principle, That way I get my own self respect back.
Thanks all the same.

 
 
 
 
 N/A says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
P.s. Any comments I made to RC was not offensive at all, It was open to everyone to read, it was just you that found it offensive, By reading into my comment.
JW or not, RCs cousin is a human being, Who for some reason RC felt he needed to tell everyone his cousin was sulking after he told him there is no Paradise earth.
You know I was in the right about how he treated his cousin.
I noticed you deleted my comments explaining my own reasons to that, But then put your own comments up running me down.
That’s what the GB dose when it says we don’t care what people say about us, we will make our own news.
What’s the different between your comments and the watchtower magazines articles ? To me they are both the same.
I don’t like organised religions dogmatic rhetoric claims, And I don’t like yours either, you may not be a JW anymore, But you behave exactly the same as them by trying to stop peoples freedom of speach, Which is still a form of mind control, Just because you don’t agree with my views dose not men they are offensive.
I did think about your comment for about 5 minutes, then thought to myself I don’t like you, And i don’t like JWsurvey any longer either as a result.
Like I already told you, There’s nothing stoping me drafting out them emails and sending them to the people I mentioned via your website, About the tactics you use.
Stop running me down, to elevate and justify yourself.
I was very reluctant about posting any experiences to JWsurvey to begin with, let alone have all these ongoing postings from people like you, trying to demonize me to make yourself look better.
Look at yourself in the mirror first.
You can delete these comments of mine, But I have my own copies.
Reply
 
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:24 pm
 
Excelsior –
I said goodbye a little while ago too. Some posts just got under my skin and I was getting annoyed. A few months later I have decided to post again.
 You are one of the long standing members on this site – although we don’t always agree, you will be missed. Hope you get lots of money from your huge new contract. We could do with a party!!
 Peace and love.
Reply
 
 
 jake says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:32 pm
 
Excelsior, I really hope you don’t leave. we all say stupid things (genius accreditation accepted) hope you’ll stay around.
Reply
 
 
 jake says:

 November 11, 2015 at 6:20 pm
 
Excelsior.
 I appreciate your logic when discussing application, I like that clarity. How many hot collars are there when it comes to belief? You are an asset.
 The weakness of us all is the belief we are right, try a discussion with that sort of person. . . . often their mouths are big and their ears are small.
 As a general comment. . . Before belief in the external belief in the internal.
 God. . .John Lennon.
 Hope you don’t leave Excelsior X
Reply
 
 
 
 A Patient Man says:

 November 11, 2015 at 7:23 am
 
Here is another story for you, My wife’s aunt was a very faithful person along with her husband who was a presiding overseer, (when there was such a thing), for many years. The hall the two of them attended was very cold in the main seating area, so the aunt would sit in the back room. Her husband who finally removed himself from his position as overseer and elder, would sit with her in the back room. This did not set too well with the “powers that be”. So they began mandating that everyone needs to sit in the main auditorium. The aunt could not, and her husband supported her decision. It all finally came to a head and a very misguided elder said to her, “if you are not going to follow our instructions, leave and don’t come back”. So they left and never went back. I have had a number of nice conversations with the two of them, and during one of our talks she said to me, “if you put your faith in men, you will always be disappointed”. That rings so true! The misguided elder should have been the one to commend them for attending, even though they chose to sit in the back room. This elder did not ever take into consideration what this faithful couple contributed over the years. He wanted them to fall in line with something very petty. So from the very small things to the big ones, there is to be no deviation, it is no wonder faithful ones like these family members are leaving.
Reply
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:10 am
 
John, that was a very moving article and affects many of us who still have family in the organisation. I feel a longing to help Witnesses when I see them out and about with their trolleys or knocking on doors. I think it is important to share with them a better way. Not easy but at least it’s positive.
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:27 am
 
I rarely talk to my family who are still witnesses about the witness religion because even though they may know that things are not right, they use the standard line “wait on Jehovah”. That right there is a conversation stopper. And wait they do……
Funny, when a person leaves the religion, the witnesses all believe (propaganda from headquarters) that that person will become an immoral, drug and alcohol abuser and will never be happy again.
That person is then generally written off by most witnesses because he or she will die at armaghedon anyway.
Leaving the witnesses was the only way that I could be happy again, because for me, going into the Kingdom Hall was not any fun, as it always felt like I was walking into a prison. There were some very nice people there but the atmosphere was always guarded and noone could ever ever really say what they were actually thinking.
So many times I wanted to put up my hand and say I disagree with this point and perhaps we can discuss it or reason on it, but that would have taken much more courage than I had at the time.
Reply
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:22 am
 
Just a note of thanks. I appreciate the added information coming out about disaster relief. I’ve helped at disasters but I have to admit I’m naive. I was aware of different things but didn’t always make connections to the bigger picture. And in my limited capacity of helping I just wasn’t in the know about some of these things. My eyes are a little more opened. Regards
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:37 pm
 
Just a comment on the wide variety of post/watchtower ideologies, I think it has to be expected that the journey out of the years of absolute thought control is going to be messy and chaotic. Remember the old illustration from youthbook.about the spring that’s held tight then released suddenly. .same thing…we cannot expect uniformity, in fact that was what we came from, the Truth whatever that is will be manifested no matter what we think or feel, our belief or disbelief will not change reality. We need to respect people and viewpoints that do not always agree with our own…
That being said , I also realize that Lloyd has an obligation to monitor the comments on this site, just like cnn, Guardian, bbc…do theirs, and establish parameters to how far commentators can go..
Reply
 
 
 Wild Olive says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
The example of Abraham has as explained been exploited for an agenda.
 One of the major differences between Abraham and most of JWs is that Abraham had been put in a covenant with Jehovah,and sure Jehovah tested him, all of this made the covenant promise more sure for Abraham, Jehovah didn’t derive any benefit from Abrahams faith, but Abraham got everything,just as any father who is concerned with his children’s welfare will tell them what’s right, and sometimes enforce it, the parent gets no benefit from children’s obedience, the children are the ones that benefit, even when children don’t always accept parental advice, parents don’t go around thinking ” that child doesn’t have my approval” . No we try again hoping they will see our love is what is behind it all,Ime sure this was the same with Jehovah and Abraham
Reply
 
 
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New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
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14 Responses to Videos

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
 
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
 
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
 
 
 Luke says:

 October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
 
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
 cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
 will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
 
 
 Fred says:

 November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
 
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
 
 
 Palma says:

 February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
 
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
 I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
 What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
 
 
 Idris says:

 March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
 
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
 Keep up the good work
Reply
 
 
 Julia Orwell says:

 July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
 
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
 I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
 
 
 Kirtley W. Burggraf says:

 March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
 
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
 
 
 Alone in MD says:

 March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
 
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
 
 
 pj wilcox says:

 July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
 
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
 
 
 Adrian says:

 September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
 
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
 
 
 Rick Viger says:

 November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
 
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
 I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
 
 
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6 Nov
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 
Guest writer John Redwood examines the authoritarian control exemplified in the latest Watchtower study edition... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-2aT



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1 Nov
 Great_ReTweeterRadio   @Great_ReTweeter 
Cult Awareness Video of the Week: @cedarsjwsurvey thoughts on JW Broadcasting 13
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 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 
My thoughts on JW Broadcasting 13, with Gerrit Lösch (http://tv.jw.org )... https://youtu.be/-3v6-oLtuhU  via @YouTube



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25 Oct
 Watchtower&Awakening   @ApostateAwake 
So the #ClocksGoBack.
Great, could someone let #Creationists know they can bring theirs forward a couple of thousand years?
Cheers guys.

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Dont bother to write to #Jehovahswitnesses here is what they are told to say #bonkers #Awake or just #wakeup #free http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider …

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 JW.borg   @jw_borg 
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider … very interesting guidelines for JWorg, regarding correspondence. Thanks @cedarsjwsurvey  and to whoever leaked this.

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Racial Segregation & Jehovah’s Witnesses http://avoidjw.org/2015/10/racial-segregation/ …

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 Anthony   @armathenia 
Cheers to @cedarsjwsurvey and his insider getting this out. http://jwsurvey.org  is bogged down, but check out his article soon.

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@HowardandCarlos @cedarsjwsurvey Big day for this leak. It splashed on reddit.....hard. The more people who know about this cult, the better

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@cedarsjwsurvey didn't know a "true Christian" does not participate in tying of tubes/vasectomy unless life danger pic.twitter.com/eX957ltyjS

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23 Oct
 AvoidJW.org   @avoidjw_org 
Highly-secretive "Talmudic" Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider …

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 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 
Watchtower's fabled "Correspondence Guidelines" document, in all its "talmudic" glory, has been leaked by an insider http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-29Q



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Jehovahs Witness grandparents ordered to keep faith to themselves http://buff.ly/1QVk2ok  Parent choose what children learn @cedarsjwsurvey

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22 Oct
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 
I've had #watchtower's top secret "Correspondence Guidelines" document leaked to me. Look out for an article soon! :)

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News and Links for ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses: Child Sexual Abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses on Australian TV http://www.atheistgeeknews.com/news-and-links-for-ex-jehovahs-witnesses-child-sexual-abuse-within-jehovahs-witnesses-on-australian-tv/123 …

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22 Oct
 Hemant Mehta   @hemantmehta 
Canadian Judge Rules That Jehovah’s Witness Couple Can’t Push Their Faith on Grandchild http://bit.ly/2005jP1

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