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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
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Posted on November 4, 2015
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.
They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.
This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.
Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.
I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…
I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.
Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.
But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.
Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.
new-cedars-signature3
The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.
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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
123 Responses to My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
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alanv says:
November 4, 2015 at 5:40 am
Would be great if my JW son approached me to try to get me to come back, but I know he wouldnt as he is aware that if he says anything to me about it, I will just say the same things as Lloyd would say, and he is afraid of the truth. He likes his JW life and seems ok with living a lie.
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Anthony says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:15 pm
Just let him live his life the way he wants, If he likes living a lie what’s that to you ?
If its some kind of doctrinal issue that’s directly effecting individuals then speak out.
Otherwise I don’t see why people like you always feel the need to judge others by the way they live
There’s a lot of things about the jws which I don’t agree with, Which are wrong, but that’s not one of them.
That’s just an outright attack, Try approaching the police with them kind of remarks about your son, And they will soon correct your thinking.
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tiger123 says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:07 pm
@ Anthony
Did I miss something? You go and berate Alanv. You rudely speak out in public about him and impute motives you have no basis for. Clearly your a JW with a I am better than you complex. The invocation of talking to the police about the matter??? Wow why don’t you try that one yourself, I bet you will look pretty dandy in a straight jacket.
Do yourself a favor and don’t blog the next time you go off your medication. Besides don’t you have some windows or a toilet to clean. Shhhh, did you hear that, I think your mother is calling you to come up from the basement and study your Watchtower.
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Anthony says:
November 5, 2015 at 4:16 pm
Tiger
I know what you meen, but that’s the reality of life.
By the time people figure certain things out, Its to late, its all over, like Michael Cain said, life is not a reversal.
I am not a people follower.
If you put your trust in religious organizations they will let you down, That’s because they are all made up of fallible people by nature.
I stick to the way I understand things now, That works much better for me, No confusions that way.
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mackgg says:
November 5, 2015 at 6:34 am
Anthony, you are a lemming. You are told how to be. How to think. And who you can and cant associate with. Keep following :)
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Anthony says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:12 am
Mack
I am one of the most true ( Free Thinkers ) you will ever come across in life, You just don’t know it, But if only you did.
And i don’t follow anyone’s religious systems, With man made origins.
I also don’t follow former witnesses either who are filled with rage against other human beings, Who are caught up in systems.
If the witnesses are truely wrong about them being gods spokesmen, ((( Which I know they are wrong about anyway ))) Then you should be helping them, Not attacking them.
A lot of them witnesses are just following the GB, They don’t know any better, You lot with them past experiences should know better.
Instead of helping, your attacking.
I don’t follow any religious system, And I don’t follow people who have serious issues with them either.
I think for my self, Always will, And thats how i like it, And I think you know that.
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tiger123 says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:44 pm
“I am one of the most true (free thinkers) you will ever come across in life, You just don’t know it. But if only you did”
Reminds me of what I told Kate Upton, I am one of the best looking people you will ever come across in life, you just don’t know it. But if only you did. Still waiting for her to give me a call when she figures it out. Lol
Anthony says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:33 pm
alanv
Since your son don’t approach you in the first place, I thought that itself should be great, But no, You need him to approach you as well just so you can tell him were to go.
I really don’t understand that kind of thinking mentality in people.
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Anthony says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:39 pm
alanv
Sorry, But not going to make attacks on people just for the fun of making attacks.
That’s criminal behavior type thinking.
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Anthony says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:02 pm
alanv
As you said, Your son is already aware of how you would react.
If I had a parent that was talking bad about me, Especially on national website, I would be ashamed of him.
Not defending the jws system itself, But you should know when something is right or wrong, And be able to make that distinction.
Maybe your the reason he’s a JW to begin with ?
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
November 4, 2015 at 5:43 am
This is a subtle way of making a “theocratic war” against… “Apostates”!! Imagine the following you can read in Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Publications…
*** w53 11/1 p. 655 Examining Islamic Teachings ***
ISLAM’S “JIHADS”
One of the more striking contradictions found in the Quran concerns itself with freedom of worship. On the one hand there are a number of expressions favoring religious liberty, such as, “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” And on the other hand, time and again expressions appear that indicate the direct opposite: “When the sacred months are passed, kill those that join other gods to God wherever ye find them; and seize them, besiege them, lie in wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way for God is gracious.” And again: “Fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: Kill them wherever you find them. . . . Fight therefore until there be no more civil discord, and until the only worship be that of God,” or “until the temptation stops.”—Sura 2:186-190, 212, 213; 8:12; 9:5, 124, Rodwell.
Modern Muslims claim that the Quran teaches freedom of religion and advocates only defensive warfare, but can such expressions as “kill those that join other gods to God wherever you find them,” “but if they convert . . . let them go their way,” and “kill them . . . until the temptation stops” be construed as either defensive warfare or permitting freedom of religion? The very Arabic word jihad disproves such a contention, for it means, “A religious war against infidels or Mohammedan heretics.” (Webster) Many, many Muslims were slain by other Muslims because of religious differences. Certainly that does not spell out freedom of religion.
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agatha says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:44 pm
la WACHTOWER INC. tiene temor porque cada ves son mas los inactivos jaja ya no pueden contra la supuesta APOSTASIA se cae a pedazos su mascara de hierro y nadie los atacara jamas son nuestros seres queridos solo respetuosamente nos dan la oportunidad de hablar con nuestros familiares y quiza lograr despertarlos
doble riesgo para ellos pues el amor siempre es mas fuerte que cualquier mentira
tranquilidad claridad tolerancia firmeza compasion y por sobre todo amor para nuestros seres amados una gran oportunidad de calmarlos para que bajen de la pelicula de ciencia ficcion que les estan haciendo vivir
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Chiafade says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:56 am
This is the same campaign the Catholic church had not too long ago. The “come home” theme is definitely meant to illicit an emotional response. I haven’t watched it but I’m sure that my feelings towards the briadcast will be the same.
I just wanted to punch Gerrit Losch in the nose. All i could hear from him is his hypocritical response to the courts that would not be accepted in ANY kingdom Hall were it used by your average publisher. These men have no credibility. The idea that God is using this organization is laughable.
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Doc Obvious says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:21 am
Watchtower is still labeling people as “inactive” ones. This is just like the Pharisees in Jesus day labeling the common people. When is the organization going to start counting the zeros every month for the inactive ones. So, that the publishers get to see what the “real” truth is about. The survival of the fittest, or the “race for life”, is the reason why there is such a conflict. Telling the publishers when they go through life’s traumatic changes in their life and albeit God dishonoring practices as “that’s your problem, that’s not our problem” a statement by a prestigious elder just shows that Jesus Christ’s life has no effect on the religion. In addition, the elders playing rank over the publishers is not showing the qualities of Jesus but rather the spirit of Satan the Devil. These streaming videos and printed material is so impersonal and does not represent Jesus Christ way of handling matters.
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Searcher says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:55 am
Agreed! Would Jesus ‘lovingly’ shun people that he saw in need or danger?
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Oubliette says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:38 am
Lloyd,
Nice assessment and analysis: short, sweet and to the point!
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Mary says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:46 am
I did a thread on JWD about 7 or 8 years ago under the Comments You Will Not Hear at the WT Study so this is the same old same old.
What is so irritating is that in both the WT study articles and their videos is that it’s never the fault of the Organization when someone leaves. It’s always the individual who is to blame. Either they ‘let themselves be stumbled’ or they no longer wanted to go out in Serve-Us, or they’re too full of themselves, etc. etc. They NEVER ever will acknowledge that anyone has a legitimate reason for leaving, no matter what the facts show.
My family has more or less, left me alone on the subject. They know I think the religion’s a crock so they don’t ask me questions anymore, simply because they realize I know more about it than what they do. And that is always a huge threat to any cult.
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Garrett says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:16 am
“Serve-us”….hahahahhaa…I love stuff like that.
Pio-sneer
BORGinization
Eldress
Circus Overseer
…..
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i sawthelight says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:49 am
Come home? Come home to what? They are the ones that should come home.I have had enough of this sorry crap from a group of brain washed old bent over men claiming to rep God.I left this nonsense after 32 years of my life in a lie. Now they want me to come home? This is another brainwashing campaign by a group of dead men walking around.I say to them sell all the stock you have invested all over the world and sell all those kingdom halls and all the property you own and give the proceeds back to the flock where it came from. Give them all that money then apologize to the world for being such a lie and manuplitator .Beg them your forgiveness and go get a job like any other human being. Then I will say that indeed that the watchtower has came home.
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ruthlee says:
November 4, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Hear hear! Ive always thought this org needs breaking with kindness give ALL the money back to whom it is owing and then they wont owe a single thing except love.Hmmmmm can’t see that happening in a thousand years. ruthlee
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agatha says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:47 pm
perfecto pedido!!! adhiero completamente
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Idontknowhatodo says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:57 am
Iv noticed over the months how…. well….. portly Mark Sanderson is getting…its laughable that he is a couple of years younger than me and Im expected to believe God is using this slightly overweight man..(ahem he had better be careful according to jw guidlines)to guide my life and make my life decisions for me…all the governing body look like they have forgotten how to do a days work…I was talking to an elders wife a few days ago and she said the broadcasts have really shaken her faith in the organisation… she finds the governing body totally unlovable…that may be why they are having more broadcasts done by the helpers in the future!…I think the broadcasts are the begining of a long slow death for the organisation…Im so happy my head is free!
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Searcher says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:58 am
This is obviously showing that they need something out of the people that have drifted or faded away. What is it? Their MONEY!
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ForestDaughter says:
November 4, 2015 at 1:20 pm
Yes, especially as anyone out of the organisation is more likely to be better off financially, in higher paid work and having taken some further education to better themselves. Also, the GB are wanting our energy I should think. Many inside the org are getting exhausted and dispirited, and there isn’t much in the way of new blood through field service here in the west. The need fresh victims, lol.
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Michael Gates says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:05 am
Could it be that the GB leaders have some statistics from the field as to how many are no longer associated, and thought how much revenue that would bring back to the coffers if they did “come home” and bring their wallets?
Just wondering…
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Ted says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:09 am
Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, ” Dear friend what can I do,
To prove the warm affection I ‘ve always felt for you?
I have within my pantry, good store of all that’s nice;
I’m sure you’re very welcome — will you please to take a slice?”
“Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “kind Sir, that cannot be,
I’ve heard what’s in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!”
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Michael Gates says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:18 am
One other point as to the broadcasts of late. If you can remember back in the 80s – 90s of the GB which included the likes of Jaracz, Klein, Schroeder, Booth, Gangas, Barry, Barr, Henschel, Sydlik et.al these men were basically in the background. We barely knew who the GB was and most rank and file would hardly recognize them.
Now why is it all of a sudden different? The GB of today are rock stars? Could it be that the new group are mostly former COs and DOs, “who like the front place in the synagogs” and the adoration of men. They were always in the front and center, and commanded everyones attention everywhere they went. They loved it that way, and had enjoyed the creature worship. This happens to many Pastors in mega-churches in the US.
Now behind their desks in New York, they miss that attention. Much as JR Brown (former DO, now PR Man) when he first went to bethel in 1978. He had become so popular and famous as a DO and speaker, it was thought the GB brought him to bethel to stop the creature worship. He seemed to have languished there for all of that time.
Well now the GB has an outlet to be seen, JW Broadcasting. This time though, not only by their circuits, but the whole world of JWs.
Interesting to see how this venue for creature worship will play out…someone pass the popcorn.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:30 am
The elders wife said much the same to me…I was in shock that she said it…she felt like it was the same as any American evangelical sect…she was really disturbed…I didnt give much away because Iv learned to be careful…but I did say to her that if she feels this way she cant be the only one….I truly felt for her…she just kept saying it was a good job she loved Jehovah…That will go soon…Iv been there…you feel lost.
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Faithful Witness says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:12 am
We stopped our study with the JW’s in the spring of 2010. This new projection of the GB members, into the magazines and now as televangelists, is a striking development to an outside observer.
When the GB declared themselves to be the “faithful and discreet slave,” this must have justified their motivation to start showing their faces more prominently. They are finally getting the adoration and recognition that they deserve. They have set themselves up on thrones, for all the worldwide web to see.
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David says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:33 am
We are almost 2016, this alone tells that they have taught lies for more than a century. Everybody makes mistakes but you cannot be wrong for so long. Instead of asking people to comeback to the org the governing body should act as normal people. They should realise that a person is not evil if does not agree with their flawed viewpoints.
Now their growth is close to 0 and their moving mountains to adjust the stats.
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Pj wilcox says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:34 am
I am envious of your kindness. Sir, you do a great service. You have helped me get over the rage and anger in me by bringing a readonsonable discourse to the table.
Please keep up the good work. I will be always listening to what you say
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Tara says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:43 am
I tried to watch it but his sickly sweet pleading just made me annoyed. I’ll wait for Lloyd to do his bit on it and then watch.
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Catalina says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:07 pm
Tara, Me to.
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Markie says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:54 am
Sanderson appears to be a latent homosexual (not that there is anything wrong with that). I don’t think he is married. I could just imagine all the hot pioneer babes that would want him and have probably thrown themselves at him. So I would conclude he is gay. I love him in his Mexican wedding shirt. Just wonder how he got that position. For that mathere any of the GB. None of them appear to be very bright.
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rob says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:00 am
In my opinion the JW religion is nothing but a corporation – I dont agree with so many things with regards to this religion. Why would they want me back? I would be a fly in their ointment.
Is it for Money? Counting Numbers?
Can they be so oblivious to the fact that so many have left because they can no longer tolerate the fact that this religion is really about money, cover ups, ever changing doctrines, rules rules rules not found in the Bible and mainly about ensuring that their reputation goes untarnished.
The internet is exposing the witness religion for what it truly is and it appears to me that it aint gonna stop.
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Markie says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:16 am
I don’t think it really is a publishing company like so many people say here. But yet it is a corporation. They don’t charge for their literature here in the USA. They rely on donations. Judging by the GB ill fit ting suits and lovely silver shoes it doesn’t appear that the GB is benefitting from large amounts of cash. Yes they do appear to be living off the fat of the land judging by their belly sizes. They do fly around and act like rock stars but I don’t think any of them have big bank accounts filled with money from the society. They really don’t need it. I do see some of them as hypocrites building Wallkill to ensure a comfortable future for themselves then telling people not to get an education. Lucky for me I went to school and have a nice profession making decent coin.
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Faithful Witness says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:57 am
Markie: Have you seen this video of Geoffrey Jackson, where he appears to be wearing a gold Apple Watch?https://youtu.be/gBE_oof1RzE
If you are uninterested in listening to his testimony to the Australian Royal Commission, you can skip ahead in the video to get a better view of the watch, beginning at 55:45 in the video.
The price for a gold Apple Watch in the US, starts at $10,000. There are more comments about this watch at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/440110001/geoffrey-jacksons-golden-apple-watch-investigated
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Markie says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:53 am
You can’t really tell what kind of watch that is. People are seeing what they want to see. Their suits are all very cheap looking. None of them fit like they are a canvased suit. They look like cheap fused suits.
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Matt says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:12 am
“the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true.”
That’s the key to the whole thing! If it was true then I would still be in and trying to reconcile all the extra strangeness.
It’s simply not true and that makes all the misery that it’s doctrine causes all the more intolerable.
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Pow says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:39 am
Well put…
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Velvia Blue says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:15 am
If only our relatives who haven’t yet woken up could just take the bible at face value. Its teaching is the salvation comes through faith in the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet the teaching of the watchtower is that salvation is only possible through an unquestioning allegiance to the W/T corporation.
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Faithful Witness says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:39 am
Yes! If only… and that is almost exactly how I put it to my mom a few weeks ago:
“I’m still hoping that you and Dad are going to wake up one day, and realize that this was all a mistake. Your family will be here, and we love you unconditionally.”
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Caltanzee says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:29 am
Velvia blue: you summed it all up in a nutshell ! It was all about being in alliance and under the subjection of men, rather than under subjection to God and Christ. Now these power hungry tyrants realize that vast numbers are waking up and freeing themselves from years of enslavement, they have gone into panic mode. Using Guilt tripping tricks to entice the freed captives to come back to slavery…who in their rights senses would ever want to do that? Nooh!! Watchtower ! Enough is enough ! We have had more than enough with you.. Ya done !! We are through..My fifty years is more than I should have given you..Not another nickel, not another dime.And certainly!!! Not a second of reporting time.
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Faithful Witness says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:30 am
I agree with previous comments: The GB has placed themselves in the spotlight. This will prove itself to be a big mistake for themselves and their corporation.
Cedars: I love the reply that you composed! It was compassionate and honest… something a JW will not get from their brothers in the congregation.
I’m grateful for the work you do here. I feel like I’m informed and up-to-date on enough of the developments in the WT organization, without having to subject myself to their relentless propaganda.
Again, I am so glad I got away from these deceivers, before they made any claims on me or my children!
… although I will always welcome their doorstop visits, and I will definitely use some of your words when they do come for a return visit. :)
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DavidR says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:33 am
“The question isn’t why you have become inactive…” Yes, yes it is. That is the most important question. And although you try and ignore it and attribute it to being blinded by Satan or an arrogant and prideful spirit, you continue to allow your members to go on being held captive to an organization that they no longer believe in purely because they don’t want to be shunned. And you continue to enact policies that help to shelter child molesters. Also, you use women to do the lion’s share of your preaching work but will not allow them to hold positions of responsibility.
So yes Mark, it DOES MATTER WHY!
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John Baptist says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:47 am
I guess the internet has really begun to take it’s toll on this religion to the point that they can only appeal to the emotional side of people anymore. The facts are in and there’s no disputing they are a false religion with false prophecies.
1 component of a cult religion is to recruit or in this case re-recruit members on a emotional level.
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Searcher says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:54 pm
Any organization that has to rely on membership for financial support must have a growing membership in order for the greater organization to grow. The WTS organization is in plateau or (hopefully) in decline now, because of the internet and education. Thus, the reason for the plea to disassociated and faded members. It has no other resource than the accumulated wealth (i.e. real estate and stock holdings) to draw upon for sustenance.
Poor little Mark, when he gets older, his organization will be only a shadow of the former empire of Sir Judge Rutherford.
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agatha says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:13 pm
asi es nuestras emociones nos conectan directamente con el miedo a la muerte
“el miedo es un lazo” :-)
las emociones ya no son mi vista creo todos los seres que salimos de este gran enriedo tenemos bien claro cual es la señal de no avanzar: y es cuando el estomago se transforma en un nudo y el corazon se arruga de dolor e impotencia ufff 35 años de ulceras ansioliticos antidepresivos antiparanoides y no se cuantas enfermedades mas que hoy por hoy no existen en mi ni remotamente la LIBERTAD no tiene PRECIO $$$$$$ WACHTOWERRRR INC.!!!
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Pow says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:52 am
Just a side comment about the org. “Not charging for their publications “, that was not at the direction of the Holy Spirit as has been inferred, it was the fact that they would lose their tax free status as a non profit corporation. I believe it was in connection with the Baker/Swaggat fallout. ..where the watchtower actually filled “friends of the court briefs”, hoping to sway the justices to rule in favor of those “T.V. Evangelist”
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Markie says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:01 am
Very well aware of that. But truth of the matter is they don’t charge and rely on donations from a bunch of poor people. I know how much is contributed in my congregation and it really is not that much. Maybe that is why they are asking for money.
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Searcher says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:00 pm
You’re correct. This org has painted itself in a corner by limiting the potential of so many people that could have had a chance in this world. Even to this day, the GB frowns on higher education and individual achievement. Now, the WTS has to reap what they have sown. Good enough for ’em! The GB gets what they deserve, a declining accounts receivable.
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Kat says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:58 am
This is NOT pro-Catholic but the Catholics have had the same campaign for a long time, return home to the Catholic church. To me it seems the JWs have been pulling from other religious organizations ideas that seem to be working, Return to Catholic church, Family Night ( LDS),VeggieTales/ non-denom Christian church ( Caleb and Sophia cartoons)and a symbol to bow to or worship( The Blue Square).
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Caltanzee says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:47 am
Their are following the a same modus operandi as the mainstream churches. For instance in the menio park congregation trial.watchtower made a statement via their attorney Calvin rouse: That we just like the Catholic church, an hierarchy..That should speak volumes to any present jw.That disputes it’s claim to be different. It’s is actually the same as the others it criticizes..So that’s another reason not to go back to the GB’S. OF SCAMMERS and LIARS.
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Mama Joy says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:01 am
Coming back to Jehovah God means coming back to their publishing company/ religion???!!!!!
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Anonymous says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:14 am
Well put Lloyd. Very dignified. And hopefully will nudge someone toward intellectual honesty.
Looking forward to your book!
“Anne”
(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010359243959)
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George says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:21 am
Not your best article John. If your suggested reply goes as far as to say you would not return because it simply isn’t true, then why not also tell them it’s also because of the very real harm and suffering many of the organizations teachings cause, eg, the death causing blood transfusions policy, etc. And because you see too much rotten fruitage and a lack of real love. And because you feel the org is more like an abusive, threatening parent rather than a loving, kind parent. Trying to confine a response to just saying you don’t go back simply because it isn’t true is a gross simplification and reduction of the whole issue to nothing but an intellectual issue when there are so many other important reasons that must be bravely stated for the sake of the victims. In other words, the moral reasons for not returning are equally, and probably more, of a reason not to return than the intellectual reasons.
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Robert67 says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:55 am
You want me back in?
Here are my terms
1) Eliminate the two witness rule in cases of abuse
2) Eliminate shunning as there isn’t a man alive who can read hearts and minds like the Christ, therefore none but he can judge. Mathew 25
3) Stop discouraging our youth from attending universities. Please see the testimonies of your buddies at the Australian Royal Commision for reasons why this is of upmost urgency in your organization.
4) Eliminate all attempts to predict the future. This is how God himself through his word points his finger at you and screams “false prophets!” Deutoronomy 18:18-22, Proverbs 30:5,6, Revelation 22:18-23
5) Stop calling yourselves the annointed class, its just gas. You yourselves say that all scripture is inspired, stop nit picking at the verses in the book of Revelations to fabricate some elite status amongst Christ followers.
6) The original sin was not a lie, but a murmuring for defamations sake against Gods reputation. This eliminates 99.9% of your elders wives, time to act on that cause of stumbling and clean house of all murmurers and defamers by making them apologize to the congregation from the stage.
7) Encourage the friends to preach as much as they can without the pyramid scheme of merit badges for outstanding hours. The titles pioneer and publisher are not biblical teachings. Gods word says that my left hand shouldn’t notice what my right is doing, in other words, how much I preach is none of your bussiness and strictly between me and my God and his son.
8) Stop attacking men for growing their God created and alloted facial hair while allowing the painting of the natural hair, the changing of natural eye color, the use of wigs in worship. Please see http://www.google.com for definition of the biblically used word -Hypocrites
9) Eliminate the stupid suit and tie requirements. Modest dress absolutely, but my weekly worship of my God shouldn’t be treated as a G8 summit. I am positive my loving God will not strike me down for wearing Dockers and a cardigan.
10) Get rid of all bigots in leadership positions. Every congregation should have an annual vote of who they want to pastor them. Your only requirement now is who puts in, or claims to put in the hours in field service. Develop a written test of 1000 questions completely based on scripture that your elder candidates who must have been baptized at least 15 tears must answer in one sitting without their Bibles or electronic devices. Your current elder lineup is an embarrassment to the entire evangelical world. I just had one of your Bethel elite elders explain to me through one of your Awake magazines how it is the Faithful Slave had God reveal to them that animals also have DNA in their bodies along with most sea creatures. (and you want me to come back to these geniuses?)
11) Make apologizing and recovering all of Gods sheep tossed into the world by shunning a requirement for keeping current elders. This must be done by the antichrist committee that tossed them.
12) We are never going away, we will be fact checking everything you say and print until the end of the Watchtower. Our methods of exposing the antichrist watchtower society will only increase exponentially in the future. Time for change is running out.
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Robert67 says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:02 am
13) blood transfusions- Life is a precious gift from God, with a promise for more some day, we must show him how badly we want to keep it. Commiting honorable suicide by refusing treatment is not a way of showing an appreciation for said gift.
Revelation 22:18-22 Stop twisting Gods words, no one here wants to drink a blood smoothie, only preserve life when absolutely needed.
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rob says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:07 am
Robert 67 – you pretty much nailed it.
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Pow says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:51 am
May I add……stop punishing individuals who speck the truth, even if it’s not “current ” official doctrine. And, let’s report our history candidly not revising to give the best impression, if it makes us look bad ….so be it, What ancient prophet was worried about making the king/nation look good?
It’s time to unravel the lies.
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Searcher says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:13 pm
Whew!!! Don’t hold your breath! You’ll suffocate!
These are valid points to straiten the crooked ways of this organization. Unfortunately, the GB couldn’t do a do many of these changes for the better, even if they wanted to. Why? The avalanche of lawsuits that would follow them.
However, if this is God’s one and true religion, then what do they have to fear for doing the right thing in the first place? That’s because the WTS isn’t God’s organization!
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Thad says:
November 4, 2015 at 11:26 am
I thought this was interesting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVXZsFVlM9g
Terrible customer care by the WT
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k. Ives says:
November 4, 2015 at 12:31 pm
Money ? Look at the latest letter to all B.O.E. pic.twitter.com/uYmAUWXyjt
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C.O.B.E. says:
November 4, 2015 at 1:02 pm
Latest letter to Body of Elders about service meeting part on December 21st about giving money .
Follow this link
https://twitter.com/ThatTennantGuy/status/660830080470511616/photo/1
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ruthlee says:
November 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm
You are inspired Rob 67 i could not agree more . the only other thing that should be mandated is every Jehovah’s Christian Witness must read the entire Bible before they go out in a ministry .Must be baptised in the name of The Father,The son,and the Holy Spirit no other words clauses phrases lies and alliances to an org.And finally use God’s word ONLY in said ministry and all their meetings It would make interesting reading and phenominal spiritual growth. Ah but I hear you say that would be too simple , too near the Truth of the matter and may expose all the daft prophecies and interpretations as the erronious load of nonsense that it is. But if those stars don’t want crushing in the hand of the Almighty better get a wiggle on and start using the Bible and nothing else.Then you will see happy sheep come back in their droves with new ones too but the onus is on the gb to stick to the Bible alone not their drivel and spew. Bet ya they could never do it because it would take humility and honesty something that this org is not built on and would detract from their own pontificating. Oh well for a brief moment i had a dream. Now i woke up! ruthlee
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Winston Smith says:
November 4, 2015 at 12:45 pm
Since they love to use this scripture on anyone returning to “Christendom,” I’d say let’s apply it to them in their invitation to “come home”:
2 pet 2:22 – but it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
To return to the mind control, the fear-based programming and the unquestioning acceptance of any and all “new light” would be like eating vomit!
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mary ruth says:
November 4, 2015 at 1:11 pm
My husband and I stopped going to meetings 4 months ago but just recently we are getting cards, phone calls and visits from family and old friends from the hall. They are concerned about us and want us to come back because the ‘end’ is right around the corner. My brother, who never talks to me anyway and I think my mom made him do it, came to my house and told me he thought i was wrong to stop going to meetings and that he felt he would be blood guilty if he did not tell me so. I just know now all of my jw relatives will be coming out of the woodwork needing to tell me what we are doing is wrong and it is very stressful. Would love some suggestions going forward.
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Tara says:
November 4, 2015 at 4:27 pm
Lock the door, close the curtains and hide behind the window…. Oh wait…. HBH Home but hiding lol. We got told off for writing that on the door to door slips. actually it’s exactly what I do on a saturday morning if I have no where else to be around 9:30 – noon.
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mary ruth says:
November 4, 2015 at 10:00 pm
thanks for the laugh, that is exactly what I am doing.
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Garrett says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:41 am
Ruth
Only you know why you left and only you know why you wouldn’t go back.
Write up a list of ALL those reasons and the things you don’t agree with and send it off to all those you know or come knocking.
Tell them why. Take a stand for what you know.
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covertfade says:
November 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Well, Mark, thanks for the offer to come home, but I’ve found a new home.
My new home is full of freedom of thought, and the chance to become whatever I want to become, and friends who love me for who I am and not simply because I agree to follow whatever orders seven old out of touch men give.
It’s full of a life lived to a full potential and not postponed for a never-never land built on theocratic genocide. It’s full of the right to make my own choices and experience the highs and lows of those chosen paths. It’s full of the right to live, and love, and think, and speak as the person I really am and not the person you think I should be.
I did give a quick glance to my old home, the one you’re offering to me, but to be honest, it’s a bit silly and full of paedophiles.
Yours-sincerely-and-absolutly-totally-never-coming-backly
Covertfade
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Caroline says:
November 4, 2015 at 1:59 pm
I forced myself to watch the whole video and it was simply gagging to me through the whole thing.
We had two visitors on Sunday night and I love them both so much but I can tell that when they come here, that they think I will be so happy if I “return” to the Kingdom Hall and were just bubbling over with how happy they are that they are in the “truth”.
I didn’t want to come right out and tell them that I hate the Governing Body and think they are a bunch of liars so I copped out and told them that I was agnostic and the looks on their faces were that they felt so sorry for me. I tried to reassure them that I was happy but I could tell they still felt so sorry for me. They went on and on about how it was the “best way of life”, being a Witness and how even though they don’t understand the Hebrew Scriptures and why Jehovah killed all those people and how Lot slept with his daughters and how David killed all those people because David took a census and on and on, it was still the “best way of life”.
I just smiled and only was able to tell them a couple of things like what the real ten commandments really are as in Exodus 33 and that ours is the only Bible that implies that Jephthah did not kill his daughter and they did say they were going to go home and look it up. At least I accomplished that much. But I couldn’t say anything else. My husband sat there and about taped my mouth shut but it was the delusional happiness they were trying to get across that was the biggest obstacle to my telling them how I really feel about the “truth” that held me back from spilling my guts to them, if only to save them from wasting the rest of their lives on the lies of the Society. Being in the position of knowing the whole truth about the “truth” is the worst position to be in and as much as I want to warn them, I know what a horrible position it will put them in and that to be in that position like what we all are in, once we learn the real truth, is the worst position to be in and is life destroying.
There are so many people (like our friends that came over) who really love the “truth” and if they could listen with an open ear why we have left the “truth”, they would not want to have anything to do with it either. If we could only warn our families and friends and we could all escape it together. That is the best way to escape but the Watchtower has done such a good job of mind control over them, that it’s almost impossible to do.
What the Society doesn’t do in that latest jwbroadcasting episode, when it comes to encouraging former Witnesses to come “home”, is to let those people start spewing anything negative about the Society. They carefully scripted that into one of the experiences.
The former Witnesses who might receive a visit from active Witnesses, know full well that if they start saying anything negative about the Society they will be called on the carpet for apostasy and so they can’t say how they really feel if it’s negative towards the Society.
The Society is only going after people who still believe it’s the “truth” but just got lazy or left because of some other reason like depression or married out of the “truth” or got disfellowshipped or something like that.
In that video, it never encouraged active Witnesses to listen to the real reasons the inactive Witnesses left but made it look like once these people come back to meetings, that they will be welcomed into a “family” of smiling and happy friends again. This might work for friendless people but once these people start associating again, the burdens will be on them once again to go in service (a lot), all the meetings and assemblies and on and on.
The video makes it look like all those people at the Kingdom Hall are so happy but that video is made up of a bunch of actors, playing a part. In real Kingdom Halls, many people are at the meetings because they are guilted into going or else they think God will kill them at Armageddon. Many patiently sit through the meetings so they can socialize afterwards and before the meetings, but if they don’t have any real close friends at the Kingdom Hall, they can walk in and sit there and walk out and go home afterwards and suffer the worst depression because they are not one of the popular ones. I remember lots of times, putting my time in at the meetings and going home and stuffing my face with ice cream because the meetings made me so depressed. That is the reality of a lot of us.
If you go in service a lot and don’t miss any meetings, they might still pick on you because you might have mentioned a certain television show that you liked that wasn’t what they might have approved of. That happened to me a lot of the time so I learned to keep my mouth shut most of the time so as not to be judged. You can’t even talk about any book you might have read and enjoyed. Once I did that and a pioneer sister said “if I had that kind of time, I’d be reading the Bible instead”. She said that while she was going to the bathroom at McDonalds during break and I was washing up my hands.
I heard that our congregation had a congregation needs talk a couple months ago and suggested that if you aren’t regular at meetings and not putting in a lot of time in service then you are bad association. I heard that some people felt pretty hurt by that. I know the reason for a talk like that is to guilt people into not missing meetings and going in service more. A talk like that, wouldn’t encourage me, but discourage me but that is how the brothers think. They hold out the “carrot” of people associating with you, by how much you can do in the “truth”.
If only all those people could realize that the Society has no control over them at all and all that “love” is only conditional. So many of those people could get off their pills that they are keeping, not to kill themselves because of the depression that being a Witness brings on them because of all the burdens it imposes on them, once they start associating again or once they “come home” to the Kingdom Hall.
Reply
Jake says:
November 4, 2015 at 3:39 pm
That’s one comment I’d love to hear at a meeting.
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Jake says:
November 4, 2015 at 4:02 pm
This word “inactive” is a control word.
It also shows the opinion they have of themselves. It (the word) is based on Peters words. How do they know I’m “inactive”?, or is it because I disagree and disagree with being labelled too? Yours is obviously the right way, how stupid could I be, I’m so sorry.
Arrogance to describe a person like that and then promote yourself as the right way. . Me thinks.
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:09 pm
We haven’t been to a meeting since the special talk last year, and I would agree that the people in general are not happy. We were the inactive ones who you think they’d be putting on a good front for and trying to encourage, but there’s just too much dysfunction to keep bottled up for that long. Just smile and nod your head as they divulge their emotional, financial and family woes, one after another. Our own families suspect how inactive we are, but still complain to us about the problems in the congregation, and moan about the same individuals who were bothering them 20 years ago. Somehow I think we’re a subconscious outlet for them, a touchstone of reality. I keep hoping we’ll “win them over without a word” if they eventually recognize how relatively sane our lives have become since we’ve faded. I leave little crumbs of TATT here and there covertly in conversation. Time will tell.
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tiger123 says:
November 4, 2015 at 9:49 pm
@ Caroline
Good comment. I know tons of JWs that are on pills for depression anxiety disorders. In no way do I wish to judge anyone who suffers from depression, rather, I like you realize that situational depression is very high amongst JW’s. Where is holy spirit that produces peace of mind that excels all thought.
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dee says:
November 5, 2015 at 3:02 pm
I think some of these persons would perhaps be better served if they were to visit a professional counsellor/therapist/psychologist. Sadly the WT discourages JWs from seeking outside help from worldly persons. They are instead told that there are qualified elders appointed to shepherd the flock of God and that these elders are “like a hiding place from the wind, a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless land, like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land” (Isaiah 32:2).
Unfortunately, many of these elders haven’t a clue about counselling psychology, they do not have the experience, skills and know-how to deal with psychological/mental health issues and so many in the congregations do not get the right help that they need.
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Meredith J says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:36 am
Caroline, I think this push to return to Jehovah is to make those who are still fooled by all this, to think that the GB is doing such a fine job and is so loving, that they would ask those who left to return. It just makes the GB look good they think. And it is also to reassure the friends that they are in the time of the end and that they are doing the right thing here. Oh how kind they are?
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Innocent Son says:
November 4, 2015 at 3:05 pm
But is it unconditional love that’s on offer? A resounding no! As long as you go back cap in hand so to speak and admit that you were wrong to develop independent thinking and accept all the Borg’s teaching all will be forgotten. I for one will not be doing that, but I prefer to remain under their radar and watch things develop…
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Tara says:
November 4, 2015 at 4:33 pm
If you bow down and do one act of worship to me….. hmm. Get behind me satan/GB
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Richard says:
November 4, 2015 at 5:16 pm
I’m sorry Lloyd, but I don’t really like that answer, particularly because of this part:
“If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings”
The problem with that statement is that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the faintest clue what the word “evidence” means, and this is just inviting a long, frustrating conversation full of nonsense.
I would simply state that I have no desire to “come back” to something that simply isn’t true, and I certainly don’t support the many harmful beliefs the Jehovah’s Witnesses are indoctrinated to accept. Beliefs that are immoral and anti-scientific. There is nothing that a Jehovah’s Witness can say or do that would make me even consider returning to that facade, because I’m intimately familiar with the cult and all its teachings and I want no part of it. Ever.
..that’s how I would approach it.
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Caroline says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:45 pm
@Richard, if my husband is any indicator of what it is like trying to talk to a Witness who is convinced it is the “truth”, it simply won’t work to tell them that it isn’t the truth and that the beliefs are immoral and anti-scientific and that there is nothing they can say or do to make us return. You can’t get out two words and they close their minds.
The best thing to do is to turn the table on them and have them convince us what kind of evidence they have that it’s the true religion because there is no evidence and putting them on the spot like that, will for them for once in their life, to try and come up with proof.
All our lives, we read from the magazines that it was God’s organization, but they never once gave any evidence. We just took their word for it, like the 1981 March 1st Watchtower pages 24-27 called “Do You Appreciate the Faithful and Discreet Slave” where on page 27 it lists 80 supposedly “Overwhelming Credentials”. I am going to list them and this list explains it all.
1) Noah’s wife
2) angels sent to Lot
3) Rebekah
4) Joseph and Benjamin
5) gleanings left behind
6) two spies to Rahab
7) Barak
8) Jephthah
9) Naomi and Ruth
10) David’s Israelite warriors
11) Jehu
12) Mordecai and Esther’
13) Job
14) King’s daughter
15) men of loving-kindness
16) Intimate group
17) Shear-jashub
18) light of the nations
19) big trees of righteousness
20) ministers of our God
21) cluster preserved
22) servants called by another name
23) men trembling
24) new nation born
25) Jeremiah
26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant
27) enduring watchman
28) cleansed people
29) cleansed people
30) dwellers in center of earth
31) the host of heaven
32) sanctuary restored (cleansed)
33) they that are wise
34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation
35) all flesh receiving the spirit
36) Jonah
37) apple of Jehovah’s eye
38) liberated remnant
39) a Jew
40) Sons of Levi
41) Wheat
42) sons of the kingdom
43) workers for the vineyard
44) those invited to marriage feast
45) chosen ones
46) eagles
47) faithful and discreet slave
48) discreet virgins
49) brothers of the king
50) little flock of sheep
51) beggar Lazarus
52) sheep in “this fold”
53) branches of the vine
54) royal palace of David
55) heirs with Christ
56) the remnant
57) branches in the olive tree
58) holy ones or saints
59) temple
60) new creation
61) ambassadors for Christ
61) congregation of God
63) part of Abraham’s seed
64) Israel of God
65) body of Christ
66) soldiers of Christ Jesus
67) house under Christ
68) holy priesthood
69) holy nation
70) association of brothers
71) seven congregations
72) twenty-four persons of advanced age
73) spiritual Israel
74) locusts
75) two witnesses
76) two olive trees
77) seed of the woman
78) New Jerusalem
79) the bride of Christ
80) Jehovah’s Witnesses
After each of these “overwhelming” credentials, is a scripture. In the old days, I would have looked up those scriptures and tried to apply it to the Governing Body’s “credentials”. Now I look at those scriptures and would like to have the Society explain how those scriptures apply to their having overwhelming credentials. What this looks like to me, is that they opened up their Bibles and pointed at a scripture and put it down as a “credential”. Those supposed “credentials” are ridiculous, to say the least.
We never expected the Watchtower to explain how any of those scriptures apply to anything they ever wrote. They put scriptures in the paragraphs and WE supplied the explanation, pretending like we “got it”.
We played right into their hands and that is because we believed what they said without asking for any evidence. They don’t have any evidence of any credentials or they would have come up with something a whole lot better than what they did, not this nonsense that they put in that Watchtower article.
Witnesses have no evidence. All they have is the Governing Body saying that they were appointed by God. Put any Witness on the spot and see what evidence they come up with.
What you will hear is that they are the only ones using Jehovah’s name (not true). They will say they are the only ones preaching from door to door (not true). They will say to look at the fruitage (doesn’t prove a thing). They will say they are the only ones who won’t join the army (not true).
What matters is, do they have any evidence that it’s God’s only organization and they don’t have evidence. They only take the Society’s word for it.
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Lisa Clark says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:11 pm
I too received that loving brochure from my mother. I wrote her back a similar letter as Lloyds. The one thing I asked her was “how do you feel about all the child abuse going on in the organization that is hidden. This was her response via a text. “Received your letter today. You asked me to reply & according to Bible prophecy we know these things will happen in the last days & It will cause some people to do wrong & change their beliefs. But as an individual I will stick w/ what I know is the truth & worship our God Jehovah” Pretty disturbing but at least I spoke up.
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Tara says:
November 4, 2015 at 6:24 pm
Sometimes it’s like bashing you’re head against a brick wall. I guess when ‘we’ went door to door we felt the same about people. Now we are ‘out’ and trying to get the RaF to see what it is going on we feel just as frustrated. When I began to wake up it was a ‘feeling’ that something wasn’t right’. Then I looked at my two df’d (adult) children and knew then that the society was wrong. It snowballed from there. Now I can’t stand being at the meetings I do go to. Just forcing myself to watch the GB in their studio doing the whole web broadcasting makes me sick. I’m so thankful I have this site because I know it’s not just me who feels this way.
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Garrett says:
November 5, 2015 at 8:06 am
Tara
I read all your comments. You come across as an amazing person with great humor and insights.
That aside…why do you still go?
Just leave…..
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Tara says:
November 5, 2015 at 8:47 am
Thanks for the nice comment Garrett… I like to think of myself as a covert, sarcastic, rebel :p
I would love to leave but it’s not that easy is it. My daughter got reinstated so she could again talk to her friends…. she doesn’t really believe but the loss of friendship hurts her. My grandchild lives with her mother, a reinstated witness who lives in a different town, miles away, surrounded by her ‘witness’ family. One of our elders is related to them… there is already a custody thing going with my son (df’d). If I leave they will stop her seeing me. I have to wait… bide my time.
I sat with my daughter at the meeting this week and her little one…. we left half way through. There were maybe 30 people there out of 120 ish. Most looked bored and were paying more attention to the kids who were bored and playing up. Same old hands up, same blaa blaa comments. I felt pity for them all and want them to wake up.. Most are nice people who are just brainwashed and gullible. They have no where else to go, or so they think.
Who knows… this little bit of leaven may ferment the whole lump.
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Rikos says:
November 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm
I am reading a book call The History of atheism.
One of the chapter talks about in the middle ages about the 1300 AD in Europe, if some one have some doughs about the catholic church or the pope or about god, or any question regarding the church this person automatically becomes excommunicated, but later the1500 AD their burnet any one who challenge the church. But before the 1500AD the excommunicated was thousands and thousands.
The catholic church make an a piling to those excommunicators to returner home to the church, and the church will reinstate them.
the reason the church make this request to ex-communicators because was so many and the church was afraid maybe these people they may start war and valance against the catholic church. so it was better for the catholic church to bring them in and benefitted from their donations rather keeper hem loose end expose the catholic church their lies and their false teaching. The watchtower following the same method like the Catholics by inviting the people who left have
less to worry from the opposes if they bring them in to their cult house can condoling them and take their money again.
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Catalina says:
November 4, 2015 at 8:24 pm
I was going to wait for Cedars review of the November broadcast but I went on ahead and watched it. I wonder what my sister thinks of this November broadcast. The first time I was inactive she told me to my face the reason she hadn’t been talking to me for so many years was because I wasn’t going to any of the meetings. For me, my experience is JWS don’t practice what they preach.
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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
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Posted on November 4, 2015
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.
They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.
This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.
Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.
I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…
I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.
Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.
But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.
Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.
new-cedars-signature3
The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.
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← The Friday Column: Why Speak Out?
123 Responses to My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
← Older Comments
lithargoel says:
November 5, 2015 at 12:20 am
Hi all !
… as it’s now plainly visible on the wheat field, may be is it due time to pull up the “rye grass” and … burn it completely !
…
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Jake says:
November 5, 2015 at 1:15 am
Pink floyd ‘sheep’ sums up indoctrination for me.
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enuffsenuff says:
November 5, 2015 at 1:26 am
LLoyd, fair comments in your article, I suppose, because I agree in principle with them, and most of the comments by regular contributors likewise make valid comments on the topic. But things have been a bit quiet lately, no major blunders, no stuff ups, no miserable letters to the BOE’s been leaked, that we can consume with distaste and disgust… so this wasn’t just an article to keep the pot boiling?
It does seem like that, lulls can be hard to deal with for people and momentum is everything. Without spectacular scoops interest fades. I hope that contributors remember patience is everything. There was a football coach in describing what seemed like a long time for his team to win more games quoted Confucius, “the ox is slow but the earth is patient”, and then there was the quote (from memory and ad lib) “if we have been treated unjustly… God will hand out justice, but if we are really blessed we will see him do it”.
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ruthlee says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:09 am
Why oh why do they want us. Probably because they are bored witless. Not because they had much wit, but you know “no wood and the fire goes out”. They have finished character annihilating one another. The elderettes have no one else to bitch about as all has been said and done on the latest sisters naff outfit or incorrect shoes. They have picked holes in each others trousers hair cuts, beards, non beards and anything else you can think of. They are bored, bored , bored stupid . So now dear lost, faded, inactive , anti social, VICTIMS, let’s turn our attention to you. Vomit time. Weeeee luv you soooo much we want you to return to the weak and beggarly things> We want you to feel the guilt from the inside out and to never be good enough again. We want YOU to be the subject of our gossip and scrutiny because we’ve used each other up and have no poor fool to bitch about anymore. Are you not sad for us? THe elders are sitting around waiting, just for you, you naughty little sheep because you may be lost and if you come back they promise to put you in in the bosom position. NO they will beat you and fleece you and kick you again. Remember how good it felt to be so abused and hurt .that is all free of charge. There is a proviso you must give us all your bloody money because we haven,t got any . Give until you are wrung dry again and guess what we’ll kick you out again before God does it because we like to do God’s job for him . So dear little foolish sheep go back, go back and see for yourself how saccherin in large doses may have no calories but kills in the end. (this post is for ironic purposes only) ruthless/ruthlee.
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Bart says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:42 am
I think it’s a legitimate post with value. It may not be scandalous or reveal some great secret about the ORG, but it’s relevant to what a lot of us inactive ones are contending with. The ORG tries to tug on our heart strings and especially those of the ones that are still in and that have family members who have drifted away. But they gloss over, no, ignore, any of the real issues and reasons why they are losing members. The brochure “Return to Jehovah” proves this. They list some reasons why people may have drifted away from the Truth, but most of those are superficial, “safe” stories that take no responsibility for any faults within the organization itself. It completely shields itself, remaining spotless and unblemished, as of course the chosen organization of God should be.
So I don’t think this article is “click bait”, or just keeping the fire stoked. I feel like it is a help to those that have left or drifted, but are defenseless in the propagandist attacks and pleas to regain members in the religion.
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Bart says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:44 am
Oops, I meant to reply to the comment above by “enuffsenuff”.
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Waseldersdawter says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:47 pm
I found the article enormously helpful! It’s very relevant for those of us who are being pestered by our families to come back to the miserable cult. Forewarned is forearmed I say, and for that I am grateful.
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Winston Smith says:
November 5, 2015 at 12:21 pm
@ ruthlee – kudos on your comments!
The abusers find life rather boring when there is no one around to abuse.
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i sawthelight says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:23 am
Return hell. What about this cult would I want to return? Give me one reason.
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Meredith J says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:56 am
I am probably going to see my son on the weekend. This is going to play on my mind I am sure. I think if it wasn’t for his wife he would be a lot more open about it.
I have already been handed that Return To Jehovah brochure by my youngest grand daughter. (She has been well trained sadly) I don’t think I would go being general like that, although I am sure we would pick our own tactics. I would try more facts than scriptures I think. The fact that they became an NGO with the UN, their disgusting history in dealing with pedophiles and their horrible practice of disfellowshipping is unChristian. They probably would hate me but I feel they have to be told. If it comes up again in an unrelated way, then they will remember that it had already been mentioned.
Still, this is a good point for this article to make. What would we say if we are put on the spot? Maybe we should have something in mind if we are asked. Our answer might save someone from being subjected to this cult any longer than they have to. In my case it would be my son, his wife and their three dear little children. I still think prayer is important too.
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Caroline says:
November 5, 2015 at 4:51 am
Meredith, I think the simplest thing to tell them is that the Society is lying about 607 or have them prove that God is backing the Organization.
If you go to that 2011 Nov. 1st Watchtower article on page 23 in the footnote, it plainly says that no secular authorities quoted in the article agree with 607 B.C.E.
When you tell them that, they will say that we “need to wait on Jehovah” so then you can tell them that the Society has been proved wrong for over thirty years! So, they know, but lie about it. Why? It is because the whole religion will crumble and fall if they don’t stick to that date. It proves they are liars. Keep it as simple as possible.
No matter how many facts you come up with, either scriptures or other facts to prove they are liars, most likely whatever you say to them will fall on deaf ears, if any of my experiences have held true.
I have found a Youtube channel about narcissism that you can suggest to anyone who complains about anybody and that is a couple by the name of Smakintosh. If you just type in Smakintosh, their channel comes up. They have a wide variety of topics on narcissism that you can choose and once they listen to them, they will see Watchtower all over the place in the description of malignant narcissists.
All of us know people who make us crazy with their comments or the way they act and all of us will relate to those videos in one way or another. What I love about them, is that when they describe these abusive people, we are describing the people in the Watchtower Organization.
It tells us why we suffered depression all that time we were in the Organization because we didn’t “fit in” with them because the Society actually trains it’s followers to be self-serving and egomaniacs.
We were always told how much better we were than the “world” because we had the only one and true religion and we could pat ourselves on the back because we were the only ones fulfilling the mandate at Matthew 28: 19,20.
We were taught to “hate” anybody who didn’t think like we did and to hate anybody who turned away from Jehovah (Organization). We were taught to be sociopaths.
If we felt even a little bit out of place in the Organization, it is because we knew deep down that there was something wrong with the religion. We probably didn’t see all our our friends and relatives and the people we worked with as “evil”. We probably liked those people instead of hating them, unless they came into the “truth”.
When I think back, I was also turned into a sociopath but now I see why. It is because I was under the hypnotic control of Watchtower speak. I bought into it hook, line and sinker but now I can see the “truth” for what it is.
I also couldn’t see the “truth” for what it was either for all those years. It took me months of deep researching to realize that it’s all a lie. There might be some who can wake up suddenly, but not many. What it takes is just one little crack, like maybe 607 B.C.E. or having them prove it’s God’s only religion. It is so hard for them to realize they have been lied to by the Society.
Anyway, listen to some of Smakintosh videos and see what you think. Everybody gets driven crazy by somebody and their videos might help them see people for what they really are and they have nothing to do with “apostate” web sites. That is one way to help them see it for what it is without drawing attention to all the Watchtower lies. When they see those personalities as abusive, they can relate it to people they know at the Kingdom Hall.
Also, Lloyd has mentioned about the worst religion in the world, that church that goes to funerals and screams at those people. I think it’s the Westboro Baptist Church and you can play those videos for them and they will see Watchtower all over it. Even anything about Scientology might help them realize how much of a cult it is. You just can’t bring up anything when it comes to doctrines in the Watchtower because they are too brainwashed to see it and will close their ears.
Also, you should be able to use old literature now since at the annual meeting, they said that our literature doesn’t become outdated and so that’s why they aren’t going to be putting dates on the magazines anymore. They can’t claim it’s “old light” anymore.
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James Broughton says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:31 am
Caroline, the best book on 607 BC which I have read is by a former Swedish Witness Carl Olof Jonsson entitled “The Gentile Times Reconsidered”. It was his research on that very topic that prompted the book.
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Caroline says:
November 5, 2015 at 9:36 am
Thanks James. I have read that book and I also highly recommend it.
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Robert67 says:
November 5, 2015 at 11:09 am
Meredith, I myself had to literaly see with my own eyes everything that ex-jw’s were alleging was in print. I hunted down dozens of pertinent books on their false prophecies and contradictions. Perhaps you can start with Russels first book complete with Great Pyramid 1914 fold out and its manipulated measurements. You get gems like the false 1914 doomsdate, all annointed ones completed by 1881; making current annointed ones a contradiction or Highlander swordsmen.
Another great book is Miilions now living will never die written by the great apostate to Russels teachings himself JR Rutherford. Break down the Beth-Sarim mansion as explained by Rutherford himself as having been built for those prophets that he was expecting to resurrect and ring his door bell at any moment. How he used that mansion as his personal luxury home in sunny California complete with Swimming Pool incase King David wanted to take a few laps upon returning.
The list is embarrassingly longer than that on the absolute clear markers of being charlatans, but these are a few suggestions to get started and in the case of life long witnesses like me, I had to see it for myself in print, not just the interwebs.
The very least that can come out of it as that both your son and doughter in law will be more sensitive to the non sensical ramblings of these 7 CEO’s and their ever changing interpretation of scripture.
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Jake says:
November 5, 2015 at 3:51 am
‘Please come back to Sugarcandy Mountain’.
Thing is we already know what’s there and it ain’t nice.
The pigs may rule the roost but not my faith.
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Jake says:
November 5, 2015 at 5:05 am
“This work was strictly voluntary, but any animal who absented himself from it would have his rations reduced by half.”
Excerpt From: Orwell, George. “Animal Farm.”
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James Broughton says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:25 am
Jake, there is a superb book by Heather and Gary Botting entitled “The Orwellian World of Jehovah’s Witnesses”. Well worth a read.
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Peter Jeuck says:
November 5, 2015 at 5:28 am
More proof the Watchtower is in financial trouble. They know that the inactive ones tallys into millions of individuals, which then translates into lost donations that in return value into the millions of dollars.
Watchtower’s push on Armaggeddon adds an urgency to this “return to Watchtower” campaign for funds. They don’t care one bit for the souls (welfare) who left them, only the ” valuable things” (tax free mind you) that no longer streams into the coffers of the organization. As for truth? They make up the “truth” as they go along. What ever best suits the Watchtower’s financial bottom line is the only ” truth” that matters to them. From the days of CT Russell to the present. There is no single truth. I don’t think there are too many “Bible based” teachings so sacrosanct as to not fall vulnerable to reinterpretation. If the physical laws governing the universe were so malleable as to be subject to so much change , we not only wouldn’t but couldn’t exist. Since the existence of this universe ( and if one so believes it to be God’s universe) absolutely depends upon the stable truths of gravity etc. If these laws are not immutable. If these laws were subject to whatever interpretation suited God’s whimsical desire at any given point in time, the universe would simply disintegrate into chaotic rubble. Watchtower’s truths have never been immutable. They are amoebic often nonsensical doctrines meant to do one thing alone, terrify members from leaving. Look hard at the organization’s history. That is all it is.
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Peter Jeuck says:
November 5, 2015 at 6:06 am
I had typed a comment I’m not sure took… Mistake on email address. I was born and raised a Bible Student. They adhered to CT Russell’s teachings and separated from Watchtower in the late 1920s and early 1930s. When I first left, I was racked with guilt over abandoning my “heritage.” All my family back generations well into Russell’s day had been Bible Students. As time passed and I could see the doctrines for what they really were, I lost all sense of guilt and shame. I would never go back to them ever again, no matter how thick they’d try to lay the guilt on, or however earnest their intent would be for my “spiritual ” welfare, I would never return. I simply do not believe what they teach. Truth is indeed important for one to maintain his integrity, and truth is important to me. Bible Students and I’d say the same about the current Watchtower doctrines, are not the truth! That is all there is to it. If they can’t accept that fact, then that’s too bad for them. Actually I had been approached several times, but not in recent years. I was reminded of my heritage, as if I owed something to those who indoctrinated me from the time I was born. Nope! I do not owe them a single thing. Conversely however? I’d gain say they owe me a lot in terms of the years of therapy I incurred as a result of the mind and soul bending they did to me growing up. But that’s water passed long under the bridge. It’s been since the early 2000s since I stopped attending , and I have no regrets whatsoever.
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dee says:
November 5, 2015 at 6:25 am
The WT may no longer be earning as much revenue from the distribution of its publications, it however owns stocks (I understand that some of the companies in which these stocks are held may be questionable) and a significant amount of real estate – the WT recently made a $375 million deal to sell six key properties in Brooklyn, N.Y.: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/huge-watchtower-sell-seen-boosting-new-tech-triangle-2013-07-10-140000
Public records also show that the WT has received subsidies for its farms from the U.S. government:http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A00359922
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James Broughton says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:36 am
Dee, I found this comment recently which might throw more light on the finances question. “I have a friend who has done a bit of searching through the Corporate Records Office. The WT are wealthy alright. Watch Tower petty cash reserves,
Net Asset Fund $18,575,509,118.83… that’s 18 billion 575 million US dollars as at 9th September 2015
Not bad for a ‘non-stock, not-for-profit organization’”. Hope that is of help.
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Markie says:
November 5, 2015 at 11:56 am
I would like to see proof of that. If they have that amount of cash they are smarter then I think. I don’t believe that is accurate.
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Robert67 says:
November 5, 2015 at 12:09 pm
5000 ignored sex abuse cases in Australia alone x’s $10,000,000.00 each is $50,000,000,000.00 They are a bit short. Now lets play with the worldwide numbers…….
Reply
JB Reezner says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:48 pm
The WTBTS is one of many investors who participate in a JP Morgan “Liquid Assets Money Market Fund” that currently has a value of $18+ billion. The Org is surely far from being broke, but the $18 billion “Net Asset Fund” figure shouldn’t be mistaken for their own petty cash reserves.
I think there would be less of an air of panic in all of the Org’s recent efforts to save (and chase) money if they had that much cash lying around.
I’d love to see abuse victims get everything the Org has, but I fear that the various court systems that will be involved will avoid setting legal precedents that could potentially have a devastating impact on religions more politically influential than our little cult.
That’s not to say the Org won’t have to pay millions to victims. I just don’t think it will be as devastating as we all hope it will be. However, I do think that more and more people realizing that it’s a life-ruining cult WILL be as devastating as we all hope it will be.
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Garrett says:
November 5, 2015 at 6:29 am
Come back to Jehovah’s organization………………..with your wallet.
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MimiLove says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:09 am
Has everyone seen this map? I know it isn’t complete but wow…http://aawa.co/jw-crime-map/
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James Broughton says:
November 5, 2015 at 7:14 am
Lloyd, that was so helpful. The latest Awake! (November 2015) makes interesting reading with its article”Is Religion Dying Out?” Their use of statistics is highly selective of course and their conclusion is that theirs is the only religion that has Jehovah’s approval. I would like to challenge that. Well done on your response to Mark Sanderson.
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Garrett says:
November 5, 2015 at 9:16 am
Just watched the Sanderson video.
Mark Sanderson is at least 30% body fat which is obese, yet he quotes Luke
21:34 which says to not be “overeating”. The GB are clueless.
They show the illustration repeatedly of the sheep and the Shepard. How appropriate!
Sheep aren’t kept as pets or because people like the company. It’s a business.
They let them graze on worthless scrub so they can fleece them for wool and eventually kill them for meat.
Just checked. Lamb chops are on sale at Byerly’s for $14.99 per pound.
Bet our wooly friend wasn’t too happy about returning to the flock.
If YOU have strayed, …my advice? “Run Forest! Run!”
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Jake says:
November 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
Lol. You didn’t mention their mental ineptitude.
Is it that they save their own souls and feel better if they try to reach? . . . Box ticked.
It’s not about me at all is it?, it’s about you. You’d die for me apparently, give your soul above your own to save my soul, I’d be right in thinking that wouldn’t I?
Get this right Watchtower I do not bow. So what’s so difficult about a question?
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Robert67 says:
November 5, 2015 at 11:17 am
To all my ex-jw friends who are having doubts about going back, please listen to this absolute must hear podcast on the subject of dangerous and life threatening religious leaders.
It is one episode taken from Hardcore History podcast by Dan Carlin
I recommend listening to the whole thing, maybe during your walking or workout time or as background while you work.
http://podbay.fm/show/173001861/e/1366626424?autostart=1
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Jake says:
November 5, 2015 at 11:40 am
Show me a Jehovahs Witnesess willing to die for me.
Your a fraud Watchtower. Keep your sh t for your own ears.
Your on the side you think is winning.
No offence towards the genuine.x
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Jake says:
November 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm
I have a polish person living with me. . He said. . What’s with all the fireworks? I said. . We tried to blow up our own parliament and failed so we celebrate it
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Cassandra says:
November 5, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Beautifully and wonderfully said.
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dee says:
November 5, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Most JWs (including myself when I used to be one) get hooked on the idea that they will live forever in a world free from sickness, pain, suffering, death, war, conflicts, crime etc. Once they get hooked on this notion, that’s all that matters, they then just accept everything else that they are told as gospel, no questions asked. I have even heard some JWs say that the idea of living forever on earth sounds logical when compared to going to heaven – they reason that God would not have gone through the trouble of creating a habitable planet just for humans plus give man the desire to live forever if he intended otherwise; besides, no sick person has ever said that they are happy that they only have a few months to live.
JWs strongly believe that their paradise earth is the solution to man’s dislike of death and this is what traps them in the religion. A JW told an ex-JW: “Once a JW always a JW you will return to that cult as you get older and your mortality becomes more of a concern to you”.
I think it is up to each individual to come up with their own reasons why they would never return to the JWs. These are just some of the questions that I would ask any JW who wants me to come back to “the truth”:
1. Do you know that the WT once taught that the millions of persons on the earth who would be alive until 1925 would never die? Do you know that the WT once taught that the earthly resurrection would begin in 1925, starting with the return of the faithful men of old such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to earth?
(Millions Now Living Will Never Die;
The Way to Paradise 1925 ed.;
Kingdom Ministry Oct 1920;
Watch Tower 1922 Jul 1 pg. 217, Sept 1 pg. 262;
Watch Tower 1923 Apr 1 pg. 106;
Watch Tower 1924 Jul 15 pg. 211;
Watch Tower 1920 Dec 15 pg. 379
Golden Age 1924 Feb 13 pg. 314
Cover of the 1921 book The Harp of God)
2. Have you ever done your own research to find out the number of persons who have been born over the last 2000 years? If all of these persons were to be resurrected on to the earth, how many persons per square kilometre would there be given that there must also be land for non-residential uses such as food production, forests, hills, mountains, valleys, recreational areas, industrial activity, transportation infrastructure etc.
3. Would this be ecologically sustainable?
4. What would this mean if all of the dead since mankind’s beginning are to be resurrected onto the earth, will they plus all the JW Armageddon survivors fit? Would this be ecologically sustainable?
5. Would the earth look like what is portrayed in the WT’s depictions of the new system – luxury houses separated by many kilometres of parkland, a paradise of sparsely populated tracts of land, filled with smiling children living in mansions?
6. Since no one will be dying in paradise, and given your answers to 2.- 5. above, will there be room for any children given that:
i) the WT’s depictions of the new system show that children will be living on the paradise earth?
ii) Isaiah 65:17-25 which is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth states in verse 23: “They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them”.
7. Are there scriptures which state that the earth will NOT last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
8. Are there scriptures which state that the earth will last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
9. Were Adam and Eve created immortal?
If they did not sin, would God have allowed them to eat from the tree of life to live to time indefinite? (Gen. 3:22).
YES: Why would this be necessary if they were originally created immortal?
NO: So both if they did not sin and if they did sin, they would not be allowed to eat from the tree of life? What was the purpose of the tree of life then?
I DON’T KNOW: But they definitely would not have been allowed to eat from it if they did sin. What was the purpose of the tree of life then?
10. Is there anywhere in Genesis that God ever stated that Adam and Eve would live forever, except in regard to eating from the tree of life? Could it be that Adam ad Eve were in fact created mortal and that it would have been the act of eating from the tree of life that would have imparted immortality to them?
11. What is the reason that God gave why Adam would die as stated at Gen 3:19? Would that have been the case whether or not Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit?
12. Is it really because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit why they died? Animals and vegetation did not eat the forbidden fruit, they did not inherit sin yet they die. Could it be that mortality is the natural order of life?
“For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no pre-eminence or advantage for man over an animal, for all is vanity” (Ecclesiastes 3:19).
“All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away.” (1 Peter 1:24).
13. Could it be that the only way that mortal man can live forever on earth is by having children?
14. Will people be dying in the eternal earthly paradise which the WT promises?
The Way to Paradise, pg. 228 states:
“……Some of them used to be undertakers; but since THERE ARE NO MORE PEOPLE DYING, they have had to seek some new occupation…….”.
However:
i) You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth Pg. 178 states:
“Even under these best of circumstances, some will refuse to serve God. As the Scriptures say: ‘Though the wicked one should be shown favor, he simply will not learn righteousness. In the land of straight forwardness he will act unjustly’ (Isaiah 26:10). So after being given full opportunity to change their ways and to learn righteousness, such wicked ones will be destroyed. Some will be put to death even before Judgment Day ends”.
ii) Isaiah 65:17-25 is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth yet it states that people will be dying in the paradise earth:
vs. 20: “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who DIES at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.”
iii) According to You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth Pg. 183, those Witnesses who survive to the end of the millennial Judgment Day face a further test when Satan is loosed to again deceive humanity (Revelation 20). Following this test, God will destroy those Witnesses who turned away from Jehovah and his government.
15. So then, there will be people dying in paradise even though some of the WT’s publications say that this won’t be the case?
16. So then, there is no guarantee that the JWs who survive Armageddon and those who are resurrected will in fact live forever?
17. How will it be possible that the resurrected could die a second time when the Bible teaches that mankind will die only once (Hebrews 9:27)?
Also, according to Luke 20:34 – 36, resurrected persons cannot die:
“Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and THEY CAN NO LONGER DIE; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.”
18. So then, there will be 2 different kinds of persons living in paradise?
i) The resurrected who cannot die
ii) The JW Armageddon survivors who can die according to Isaiah 26:10, Isaiah 65:20 and Revelation 20
19. Even the animals will live peaceably in paradise according to You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, Pg. 164 – how will this happen? Will carnivores be magically changed to herbivores?
Some prospective converts do realize that living forever in a paradise earth is the key ‘tactic’ that is used to reel persons into the religion – I recall while being in the religion, a JW mentioned to me just how puzzled she was by her non-witness relative’s response to her efforts to get him interested in “the truth”; he told her: No, he doesn’t want to live forever. She just couldn’t understand how someone wouldn’t want to live forever. But it certainly worked for her non-witness relative since she realized that once she couldn’t hook him with living forever in paradise, then he just wouldn’t be interested in anything else about “the truth”. This is probably the best way to get rid of JWs when they come knocking – just tell them ‘No, I don’t want to live forever’ and that should end the recruiting for them.
Reply
Caroline says:
November 5, 2015 at 4:02 pm
@dee, those are some really good thought provoking questions!!
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13 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
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