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Are you atheist, religious, etc.
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status offlineeewx2
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May 30 14 5:30 AM
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I voted on this a while ago and said I believed in God. Well, now I don't. It took me over three years to decide, but nope I don't believe in god anymore. I haven't told too many people. It feels too personal to go advertising it.
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Out and an atheist. Not even tempted to go back. It took me a few years after I left, and much research, for me to admit to myself that I was an atheist.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Good for you SG! I'm atheist myself and find it amusing when I say that to someone who may or may not be religious (in say they're religious but they're not really) ...................... as they usually go down the old 'oh yes ... but if you were raised in MY religion ............'! Hilarious.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineinventor
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I picked other. I believe in god or something, I'm not very big on thoughts, or words, I don't think they accurately describe reality.. I am not part of a religion, and don't plan too on the moment. If anything I follow Zen Buddhism the most.
I am not against religion in itself, I think it can be helpful to people, but it's a personal choice whether or not to join. I don't view it as a matter of salvation or even the only way to worship. I am absolutely against cults, and authoritative sects like Jws though.
I still ill at my heart of hearts a christain in a lot of ways. I feel a very strong connection to Jesus. Like the another poster said I'm not like most christains though. I support gay rights, against the death penalty, etc. reading bede griffiths, thomas merton, and meister eckhart have given me a different, and refeashing veiw.
Last Edited By: inventor 3 days ago. Edited 3 times.
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Serious questions need answering...
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offlineYammerHammer
Serious questions need answering...
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1. Jehobuh made Adam and Eve perfect. Did Adam have a foreskin? If so, why did Jehobuh make all the Hebrew men cut theirs off? Maybe Jehobuh made a mistake when he created Adam. ???
2. When Jehobuh kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, he placed an angel at the gate and set up a twirling-whirling flaming sword thingy. Adam and Eve never saw a sword before, so how were they supposed to know it was blocking their way back? Does this mean that Jehobuh invented the first weapon of war? ???
“The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn but to unlearn.” ~ Gloria Steinem
status offlineLocutus
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Yeah sure. And how did people who had no knowledge of good and bad find themselves having to choose ? According to christian mythology, Adam and Eve were commanded by God directly to not eat of a certain tree.
At that point, God was their father figure, and as they grew up, tested their boundaries as children do… they listened to the talking snake and ate the fruit. In a normal family that would be worth a month's grounding without TV privileges. But no, we are expected to believe that we inherited the sin of an uneducated original couple who had no frame of reference as to good or bad? Yeah sure… the more you examine it, the dumber it sounds. The whole premise of original sin/redemption sacrifice is ridiculous.
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YammerHammer wrote:
1. Jehobuh made Adam and Eve perfect. Did Adam have a foreskin? If so, why did Jehobuh make all the Hebrew men cut theirs off? Maybe Jehobuh made a mistake when he created Adam. ???
Punishment for Eve's sin. To punish women who craved their men.
And the sword point, yeah, I geuss that's how they learned about implements of death, from their heavenly Dog.
status offlinehalf banana
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What does the rabbi do with all those severed foreskins? They would make good bird-food in the cold weather...
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlinebirdwoman2
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What does the rabbi do with all those severed foreskins?
Well, in certain Jewish traditions, mostly the ultra-orthodox followers, after the rabbi has removed the infant's foreskin and sucked the infant's penis, the foreskin is given to the parents to use in ritual.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110304153557AAHxzRs
Traditionally they are buried. That's what we did after our son's Bris. The requirement to do so is given in Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah, 265:10. Occasionally the parents will put a bush or (preferably) a fruit tree on top of the foreskin. Kabbalistic (mystical) interpretation of the reason is as follows:
"According to Kabbalah, the foreskin is the symbol of the negative consciousness/energy in our world. Therefore, after the Brit we must bury the foreskin immediately in the ground. Kabbalah tells us, the earth (soil) is the only matter that has the power to eliminate/diffuse all of the foreskin’s negativity. When it is buried, it must be done with the intention of helping to diminish the negative energy in the world. All people present at the Brit benefit from the diminishment of their own negative energy, so therefore it is advisable to invite as many people as possible to participate in the ceremony of the Brit Mila, to share the positive benefits."
Most hospitals dispose of the foreskin as medical waste but there are other uses for infant foreskins and some hospitals sell the foreskins - big money in it.
http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html
Foreskin fibroblasts are used to grow and cultivate new cells that are then used for a variety of purposes. From the fibroblasts new skin for burn victims can be grown, skin to cover diabetic ulcers, and controversially it is also used to make cosmetic creams and collagens. One foreskin can be used for decades to grow $100,000 worth of fibroblasts.
Since the 1980's many hospitals have been providing infant foreskins to a number of bio-research laboratories, pharmaceutical companies, and of course cosmetic companies. In Mothering Magazine in the Winter of 1997 issue Paul M. Fleiss, MD stated that "the marketing of purloined baby foreskins is a multimillion-dollar-a-year industry." With inflation and the growing number of cosmetic companies using foreskin fibroblasts that number is surely even higher today.
Just think, guys...if you or your male children have been circumcised, some old lady somewhere might have some of your penis cells in a jar of face cream that she rubs into her face to keep the wrinkles away! smiley: laugh
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Does this mean that Jehobuh invented the first weapon of war? ???
Of course he did, Silly.
smiley: tongue
Jehobah made EBERYTING.
smiley: tongue
status offlineCee Cee
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Hey David, I'm loving your thought-provoking comments as usual...
So here's my take (as if anyone cares): What we call circumcision, a practice established 28 generations after the first penis was created, is all about a physical sign of the contract made between the Jewish people--ONLY them--and their God. Relax if you aren't contemplating becoming Jewish.
As for the question about the Hebrew word translated "sword" it has multiple meanings, a sword, a knife or any tool that cuts or trims.
As for God inventing warfare, there's no doubt about it. After all the title used for the Almighty more often than any other in the bible seems to be "God of Hosts". Tzava'ot doesn't mean the guy who invited you for dinner, it most often means--run for cover--big friggin' ARMIES!
Those same verses bring up another question I gotta' ask: the reason there was a guard at the entrance of Eden was to keep the people from "putting out his hand and taking from the tree of life, eating and living forever". (Gen. 3:22) Right? So...someone tell me, if they already HAD everlasting life as we've been taught, what was the problem with their eating from that tree? What difference would it make to God if they already had that?
Cee Cee
status offlinepunkofnice
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from a JW perspective....
1. It was because the Jews were going thru the desert (dessert would be better), and they didn't want sand under their foreskins and get disease.
2. The account was written after the event when swords did exist and this was the nearest thing the bible writer could find.
From my persprctive.....
Man has made god in his own image. In other words it's just men...god has failed to provide evidence of it's existance....all knowing and yet doesn't know how to prove it exists.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlinebirdwoman2
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YammerHammer wrote:
1. Jehobuh made Adam and Eve perfect. Did Adam have a foreskin? If so, why did Jehobuh make all the Hebrew men cut theirs off? Maybe Jehobuh made a mistake when he created Adam. ???
Punishment for Eve's sin. To punish women who craved their men.Um...no.
Male circumcision does not punish women.
Male circumcision can be a good thing for women. It lowers the chances of women contacting cervical cancer.
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/cervical-cancer/news/20110106/male-circumcision-cuts-womens-cervical-cancer-risk
And...if you are referring to sexual pleasure being better with a non-circumcised man...you may have some women (and men) that disagree with you.
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
status offlineCacky
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I heard that the sucking of the penis after circumcision is causing herpes in babies' penises. If the rabbi doing it has the cold sore (herpes) virus, he'll pass it to the baby with that ritual.
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I once knew a guy who worked in the circumcision ward. The pay was awful, but he got to keep all the tips. Budda-bing-budda-bang.
I remember something about circumcision supposedly helps prevent disease... but I thought that had largely been disproved. If it was to be a mark of membership into the Hebrew community, I have to wonder if boys and men were told to pull off their garments for proof. I have never heard about sucking on the penis after the procedure. Sick and wrong. Yeah, the thing about the "tree of life" needing to be guarded... never made much sense to me. I remember the illustration in the "Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained," that awful vomit-orange colored children's book from the 1950's, and the twirling sword of flames. A lot of those images have stuck with me for more than 60 years.
I started this thread as a kind of joke... but there is a certain seriousness about it I suppose.
“The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn but to unlearn.” ~ Gloria Steinem
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1. Jehobuh made Adam and Eve perfect. Did Adam have a foreskin? If so, why did Jehobuh make all the Hebrew men cut theirs off? Maybe Jehobuh made a mistake when he created Adam.
???
Circumcision is not a tradition of man, it is a Tradition of God used to represent the gospel..
When man died a spiritual death by disobeying one commandment of God. Man realizing he was spiritually naked tried to cover themselves with fig leaves.
Fig trees are reserved to be used as a metaphor to represent a Jew in regardless of their religious affiliation whether the are believers walking by faith or as those of no faith. The fig leaves did not provide the kind of covering needed that could represent a righteousness not of ourselves. So God clothed them with skin to indicate we are brought back into a relationship with a work God has finished to help us understand He is not served with human hands
Circumcision is a ceremonial law which uses that seen, the flesh, as the temporal thing of this world to be used as a shadow to point to the true spiritual substance as that not seen, the work of God pouring out spirit life. Ceremonial laws are used throughout the scriptures to typify the suffering of Christ before hand the the glory that did follow (salvation). When scripture uses circumcision it is used to represent the work of Christ when he was cut off from the land of the living as He poured out His Spirit as if it was blood. God helps us to understand His intention of preaching the gospel beforehand in that way using ceremonial laws.
We can see that according to the parable found in Exodus 4 below.
When we the bride of Christ the church think of circumcision we think of our bloody husband Christ who was cut off from the land of the living.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.Exodus 4:25
I am offering a couple verse that I believe support the use of ceremonial laws that again are used to represent the gospel in regard to Christ suffering beforehand and the glory of that finished work., the salvation of our soul..
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Jeremiah 11:19 But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.
2. When Jehobuh kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, he placed an angel at the gate and set up a twirling-whirling flaming sword thingy. Adam and Eve never saw a sword before,
so how were they supposed to know it was blocking their way back? Does this mean that Jehobuh invented the first weapon of war? ???
Swords are used in the scriptures to represent the defense of the gospel in respect to .God's word, as it is written. It is sometimes called double edged to indicate like a surgeons scalpel it cuts both ways to remove the dross of a new born again creature being formed by the word of God and judges the intentions of our heart,.The sword was not something that could be seen as if it was carnal in nature but is used to represent the faith that comes from hearing the word of God, as the very faith of God.
The weapons of God's warfare are not carnal.Christians walk by faith not by sight.
Last Edited By: garee Apr 1 14 4:36 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinebelladiane
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Baaahaaa Foreskin'bird food'....tooo funny!
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Garee, I don't believe in your religion, but you did a good job explaining things.
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Cacky wrote:
Garee, I don't believe in your religion, but you did a good job explaining things.
Thanks for offering that.
status offlinehalf banana
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Garee, welcome to the site. Most of us here have woken up from the harmful effects of unquestioned religious belief.
You may personally have a clear vision of how it all should be... but I must take you to task about your assertions that circumcision is a “Tradition of God used to represent the gospel..”
If instead of making the words of the Bible sacred... which they are not, you looked at the sources of the Bible and the cultural context in which they were written; you would find a completely different world of meaning.
Over time, circumcision has been a widespread tribal signifier and very popular in the USA but no authority can pinpoint its precise origin, nevertheless there is no reason to think that it is other than a human ordinance.
Since much of religious belief of the Bible stems from Egyptian sentiment, the Egyptian practice of circumcision, like many of their hygiene measures, was a precedent for the upwardly aspiring Semites of Canaan to copy. Egyptian practice greatly pre-dates the Jewish tale of God’s covenant with Abraham. The OT writings were nation-making myths written mainly from the fifth and sixth century BCE, hence a very long time after the events portrayed.
Preaching is declaring heartening words to true believers. Conversely, proper understanding comes from sceptical questioning and examination of the evidence. It is absurd to say that circumcision is a tradition of God.
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
Last Edited By: half banana Apr 28 14 6:07 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlinewingnut
Re: Serious questions need answering.. #16 [-]
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Another point I often think of. If God's creation was perfect then he didn't have a very good track record if the first two creations did not live up to expectations. If he knew in advance that they were going to fail what kind of a sick being is he to have gone ahead with this experiment. And if he didn't know then he was not all knowing and simply throwing his human experiment at a wall to see what would stick. Of course we were taught that Jehovah created all things through Jesus. That brings up the question of God allowing an incompetent team member to continue working on a flawed creation.
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Locutus wrote:
Yeah sure. And how did people who had no knowledge of good and bad find themselves having to choose ? According to christian mythology, Adam and Eve were commanded by God directly to not eat of a certain tree.
At that point, God was their father figure, and as they grew up, tested their boundaries as children do… they listened to the talking snake and ate the fruit. In a normal family that would be worth a month's grounding without TV privileges. But no, we are expected to believe that we inherited the sin of an uneducated original couple who had no frame of reference as to good or bad? Yeah sure… the more you examine it, the dumber it sounds. The whole premise of original sin/redemption sacrifice is ridiculous.According to the Adam & Eve teaching Jehovah wouldn't have had a very good track record as a manufacturer. His first two models off the assembly line were worse than the Edsel. So when was the last time anyone heard of a manufacturer blowing up the whole factory because of his flawed design.? The concept that we have to be punished because God designed a flawed product is a flawed concept. If he was all knowing he would know that his design had the potential to fail. If he knew and went ahead and saw through on the flawed design concept the question becomes why. For his amusement so he'd get to blow sh*t up and kill a bunch of people? I can't buy into that concept anymore and kick myself for having done so and wasted a quarter of a century preaching to fat and sassy suburbanites.
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Geez Yam, I don't think you have to go as far as circumcision to make your case. Poor guy, Adam was the first of all creation which didn't get the "and it was good" designation. In fact it reads..."it is NOT good for the man to be alone". [What do you think a man would do all alone in paradise that wasn't so good?]
Interestingly, God who apparently talked to Adam daily "in the breezy part of the day". In one of those occasions way BEFORE woman came on the scene, he told Adam not to eat of the tree . So...it's very likely Eve learned the rules regarding the tree from her husband, who had added to God's "don't eat" instructions the "and don't touch" line she recited to the snake.
A lot of people miss the fact that God is not curse Adam--but the soil he would have to work for his sustenance. As for Eve longing for her husband, and his desire to rule over her it says to me that this was NOT God's plan for either of them, but a result of their actions. (Just imagine how happily married the two of them must have been after he blamed her for his troubles?)
Cee Cee
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offlineMarked for life
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Has anyone heard about this? It seems that when the GB split in 1980 it was because certain members where proposing that they change the 1914 generation to 1954 because of something to do with the beginning of the space age. Just read this today. Is this true?
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First I've heard of this one. I always thought it was because, after doing the extensive research in putting together the Bible Aid book, some realized that everyone should be partaking of the emblems at the memorial, that there wasn't a select few who should be doing it. They realized that the other sheep Jesus talked about were the Gentiles.
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May 16 14 4:24 AM
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Yeah that was part of it too. It was when Franz Jr got DFed.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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May 20 14 1:04 AM
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I haven't heard that specifically ... but I know the whole man on the moon thing made it harder for the jdubs to spout forth about their paradise on earth thing.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Decline of the WTBTS
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status offlineSwingLifeAway
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May 16 14 4:49 AM
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I did some quick research online about Mormon membership and it looks like their membership is falling as well.
None of these fundamentalist sects exist in vacuums. They are all facing the same pressures from the information age that the JW's are.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
status offlineCacky
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May 18 14 4:58 AM
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I didn't know the Morman's had their own university. That makes sense now.
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Sexist WTBTS Material
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offlineSwingLifeAway
Sexist WTBTS Material
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May 30 14 7:15 AM
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This is an illustration from a new article on jw.org. The top depicts "worldly" decisions being made in succession, while the bottom depicts "spiritual decisions" being made in succession.
Unfortunately I can't link to the image directly. It's in this article, following paragraph 9.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20140815/hear-jehovahs-voice/
It got me thinking about the WTBTS's portrayal of gender roles and sexuality.
In the Young People Ask - How Can I Make Real Friends video a young woman is wooed and coerced into "sexual activity" by a boy who turns out to just be trying to "get some" at his "favorite spot" where he "just comes to think (and make out with religious prudes)." The girl is never depicted as having taken to any of the advances. She is naive and, everything that happens "happens to her." My sister probably watched this video 100 times after it came out.
In this image, the man chases the woman, presumably asking her to lunch and then a movie. It is implied in this series of images that if he does not pursue her, she will not pursue him. Because, even a date is just something that "happens" to women. If our brother won't take advantage of Satan's little lust kitten, then surely Mr. Worldy over there with the backwards baseball hat will. And of course, she has no self worth so she'll go for either one.
There are many other examples as well. The implication is always that women are passive. The implication is always that she is just a pretty little ball of lust that Satan is throwing in front of you. If you get lunch with her, or take her to the movies, then you are succumbing to fleshly desire (but it just happened to her).
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway May 30 14 7:21 AM. Edited 3 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Dave ..... isn't it funny how the WBTS can be so contradictory.
Right from when I was young my mum used to tell me that 'the woman sets the pace'. I always took offence at that ... as it certainly wasn't ME who co-erced the jdub teen into doing things he shouldn't have done to me when I was little! That aside ... I have often heard comments made by jdubs that all worldly women are temptresses ... like Eve was with Adam. That fine upstanding Christian young men can be swayed so easily ... specially by a woman who 'knows what she wants and how to get it'.
Yet perversely ...... I was also told that evil worldly men would want to trick me into having sex with them, or running away from the narrow road to eternal life ...... and that not being spiritually strong would make it easy to be Satan's little lust kitten (I borrowed your words there Dave!). I grew up at a time when the world WAS ending ... so all thoughts of dating had the back-lit idea that it HAD to be a 'brother' or otherwise my family would miss me when the new system arrived and I was killed a-la-Lot-and-his-wife style! Of course I was also told that 'true' Jehovah's Witness men would NEVER EVER EVER try and lure a chaste, modest young Jehovah's Witness girl into trouble! Yep. Sure. Yep.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinecangie
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Hmmm, Andria...if women "set the pace", then they have the control, are in charge, determine the outcome, etc. According to your Mom's theory, women are more powerful and intelligent than men, and should be RUNNING things...(as in the WTBTS) and the men are just puny little pawns who play right into their manipulative little hands. So how come the JW's demand "submission" (*shudder*) from their women, and treat them like idiot second-class citizens? I dunno I dunno That kind of archaic thinking is what excuses men from raping women, or in cases of domestic violence when it blames the victim because she "asked for it." It is contradictory...they can't have it both ways..............think
Last Edited By: cangie 3 days ago. Edited 1 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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There's nothing like a little contradiction between family and friends eh Cangie! I have always argued the finer points of women having NO status within the framework of the jdub religion ... only to be told that women are supposed to be 'help mates' and back their husbands up when the chips are down so to speak. I also remember weeks at a time when my mum would get a bee in her bonnet and not speak with my dad at all! She forgets things like that I think. Ahh .... but then there's also nothing like having convenient memory lapses!!!!
I remember having an argument with a jdub male who was the same age as me at the time (16 or 17 from memory). He was adamant that women should be subservient and give men their 'due' ...... I was adamant that he would remain single forever and if he ever did get tangled up with someone .... it wouldn't last or he'd end up with one of those jdub drone type women who pander to their man's ego and get swallowed up by their religious piety. I never found out what happened as I left when I was 18 ...... I'm assuming he's still single!!!! I wasn't worth saving according to him!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineHugoVonStype.paleoplanet69529
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Looked at the imagery using your link SwingLifeAway, wow! that dude with the hat on backwards is obviously a bad association because of his ungodly hat wearing skills.
I had to ask what type of sad bastard would choose the bongos over a date and a movie :/ And that worldly woman is obviously a tart because of her short skirt.
I thank Jehovah that I took up the bongos all those years ago... not! Maybe 'bashing the bongos' is a euphemism for having a good old fashioned self administered hand job. LOL
status offlineinventor
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The WT is so out of touch with reality, everyone is portrayed as 1950's sitcom characters.
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Swing - The pics are hilarious. So ridiculous. Hugo - LOL about the ungodly hat wearing skills! And the last pic - not only are movies the wrong choice and bongos the right choice, but these two grown adults need dad to chaperone the "date". Inventor - so true about 1950s sitcom. I'm embarrassed to admit I was in of those 1950s style "family skits" at one of the circuit assemblies when I was a kid. SO cheesy.
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