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The price of being Jehovah's Witness
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offlineHacs1
The price of being Jehovah's Witness
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Hello,
I'd like to share what I've posted on other forums. Currently my parents are being a very high price for being JW...
My parents, who are in their 80s, have been in the Jehovah’s Witness religion for almost 40 years. I grew up in the JW cult, was baptized at 15, served the cult as a ministerial servant, pioneer, commuter bethelite and sunday public speaker before the age of 20. Fortunately I left the cult over 15 years ago.
My parents are truly paying a very high price for following the Watchtower. My mother fell and broke her hip 3 weeks ago. She has severe anemia and because of it and my parents’ faith in the Watchtower’s prohibition on blood transfusions she can not have her much needed surgery. She is condemned to a painful bedridden life all because of the Watchtower’s interpretation of an ancient peoples’ religious writings. My father has taken her to 3 different hospitals in a futile and desperate attempt to help her. Meanwhile her condition has rapidly deteriorated. Not even my mother’s suffering and my father’s own suffering has been enough to break him from the Watchtower’s mind grip.
Before my mother’s fall, I’ve viewed the Jehovah’s Witness religion as a nuisance and silly belief system. Now I’ve experienced how IMMORAL and dangerous the Watchtower truly is. I now feel only disgust, disdain and contempt for the Watchtower Society.
-thanks,
Hugo
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Hello Hugo and welcome to the forum. I am glad you found our group and hope you find solace and friendship here. I too was raised a Dubbie and spent 58 years in the Borg before I finally saw the truth about the truth and began an immediate fade about 8-9 years ago. My parents were faithful witnesses but never had to chose as your parents have because of their health. Still a life in the borg is not a happy life no mater what the Borg may say. It is sad to watch someone we love practicing a destructive behavior and can't see the error. At the great age of 80+/- change can be impossible, at least that is how I viewed my parents stand for the Borg. Their whole life was meetings, conventions, service and studying. The only deviation from their belief was that they never shunned me and realized that they couldn't shun my df'd son and still have me in their lives so they didn't shun him either. I was able to be there for both of them at the end of their lives.
You didn't say but I am hoping that you too still have contact with your parents. It is a horrible thing to be separated from people you love because of a belief system and cult. Most here share your views of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society so you have come to the right place to find comradeship and support. Please feel free to check out other threads and see how others have left or are leaving. Oft times reading of others trials will bring solace to those of us who find the leaving traumatic.
Once again welcome!
status offlineHacs1
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Hello InspecterD,
Thanks for your kind words. Fortunately my parents never did cut ties with me, I’ve been able to keep in touch with them, they’ve stayed in my home many times, even though they know of my views in regards the Watchtower and the JW. I was never formally disfellowshipped nor did I disassociate myself. I just faded out. So I guess technically they felt they were not under Watchtower obligation to shun me, although a couple of times we did have conversations in which they expressed that they may have to shun me. Good thing that never happened. But now, I have to witness my parents destroy themselves over such an irrational and immoral Watchtower rule.
-thanks
Hugo
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Welcome. I'm sorry to hear about your mom's situation. No one should have to live like that. My own mom is also a JW. Though I was baptized, I wasn't disfelowshipped after I left. My mom is entering her 60s and has had health problems before. Because of her anti-blood stand she had to delay much-needed surgery a few years ago. Fortunately, she was able to build up her system enough that the doctors went ahead with the procedure. My fear is that she'll have something happen and end up in the same boat as your mom. Again, welcome to the forum and best wishes to you and your family.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there Hugo .... you're a fellow 'walker-out-a' like I am. I never baptised and never formally disassociated ... just walked out and never went back.
With regards to your folks ........ most of us will relate to what you've just posted. My aging parents are in their mid to late 70's now and are facing health issues they were told time and time again ... wouldn't be part of their lives. They were also told that their eldest son wouldn't need to worry about high school education, as the world was ending in 1975. That eldest son is now pushing 54 and the only one still going along to meetings like his parents.
It is so sad to read of yet another aging couple who are facing all kinds of health dilemmas and still sticking to the WBTS guidelines as rigidly now as they did years ago. My folks ... like yours no doubt ... have cultivated a life time habit of doing what they're told. Very very sad. My mum turned down two blood transfusions in the past and instead of accepting it was pure luck and expert medical care that kept her alive ............. she prefers to think of it as being her god that saved her.
My parents didn't shut me out for more than a few months to begin with (when I first walked out) .... however depending on what's being drivelled from the platform from month to month, year to year ...... there have been moments when I'm greeted less warmly and delivered a serve of frosty coldness. Doesn't last long though ... I've never let the religion take my folks away from me totally!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Hi there Hugo welcome and thanks for sharing your story with us.
Sorry that you have to put up with the immoral and blind imperatives of the Watchtower organisation. If only it would dawn upon them that their motives are simply to perpetuate the power of the organisation and their own privileged status within it. Meanwhile people like your family suffer from beliefs which are held to be magically sacred.
Could you possibly implore your parents to use common sense instead?
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineHacs1
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Hi,
Thanks every one for your replies. I can definately relate to what Andria stated that depending on what comes out from the platform she'd get different greetings. I'd especially noticed the change after conventions and memorials. I'd get this sense of urgency and doom from them right after conventions. To answer half_banana's question, I'd say my parents are using their Watchtower altered common sense, what they are doing is common sense to them.
thanks!
-Hugo
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Is this guy possibly a JW..?
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offlineRandalfS
Is this guy possibly a JW..?
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May 10 14 1:52 PM
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Hi all
I was looking for lawn maintenance services here in Georgia and found this website that looks like it belongs to a lawn care company, but reading the text on the page it seems like a...some kind of parody about an individual, for lack of better word...
The individual in this case is supposedly a JW but had cheated on his wife and got disfellowshipped (during that time he also divorced her, and claimed to his friends in the congregation that she divorced him). After he was taken back to the congregation, he married another JW. On the page the person says:
The thing about Jehovah's Witnesses though is that it pays to have in-laws as elders. You see, that thing that Jesus said, it wouldn't allow me to legally get married again. My second wife, sure, she can. But if they really implemented those rules as Jesus spoke them, my current marriage would be adultery.
But what I wanted to ask is, would JWs really have blocked this dude from being married again, if he now had committed "adultery"?
The URL to the site (it seems to be only one long page) is: smileytreeservice.pro
Last Edited By: RandalfS May 10 14 2:04 PM. Edited 1 time.
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He would have been allowed to get married again because adultery ended his first marriage.
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While the circumstances of this story may be true, I think you are correct that the website seems like a parody, probably intended to "out" this guy by someone who is a disgruntled client of his. I can't imagine that any business owner who advertises his services with the intent of encouraging more customers would put all his "dirt" in the open like that and paint himself as a dishonest, illegal, unethical, insincere person. Now...are there actually JW's who are like that? You bet! But I can't see one of them admitting it so blatantly, especially since he seems to have been reinstated. What a hot mess! Vomiting
Last Edited By: cangie May 12 14 11:07 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Moving right along...the next lawn maintenance company is??? BTW, WELCOME to the boards RandalfS! Lot's of good stories here of brave souls who escaped the craziness that is Jdubdom. Tell us your story.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
Last Edited By: whytebyrd2 May 12 14 11:53 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi Randalf and welcome ...
I couldn't find the right website and it seems like whoever added that information ... may actually be trying to besmirch someone else's reputation. To answer your question ..... absolutely anything is possible with the WBTS mate! If the fella concerned had done the dirty on his wife, got kicked out, divorced and then came back again ... then yes, it's quite possible that he would be reinstated and allowed to re-marry PROVIDING he showed the right amount of repentance for his previous behaviour.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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I found the website and it looks to me like the whole website was set up by someone who is after this guy for what he did, to make him look bad, which it does. I'm guessing he has a lawn care business with that name and the person who wants to expose him set up this site.
status offlineCee Cee
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Yeah, its biblically pretty dodgy, but as JDubs see it in cases of remarriage it doesn't really matter who the adulterer was. The marriage is over and both parties are subsequently 'free' to remarry but [LOL] "only in the Lord".
Bet'cha Jesus just loves that.
Cee Cee
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My Breaking Point
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offlinesg75
My Breaking Point
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May 19 14 2:57 PM
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I've been out of the Witnesses for about 12 or 13 years now. Completely out, anyway. I was baptized when I was 14. Even then I knew I was making a huge mistake. I was too young to realize that I was letting myself in for a lifetime of rules and oppressive regulations. But I put up with it all, afraid of losing the only life I knew. When I was 18 or 19 I really began to despair of ever getting out and even thought of suicide. I was still living in my Witness mother's house and had to keep up appearances for the sake of peace. After I moved out, I stopped attending meetings on a regular basis. I would go just often enough to avoid trouble, but that was it. I didn't believe in my heart what they were saying, but part of me still half believed I would be butchered at Armageddon if I stopped being a Witness. (That fear used to give me many sleepless nights as a child, terrified that I would do something 'wrong' and Jehovah wouldn't love me anymore. My breaking point finally came when I was 26. It was at a circuit assembly, the talk right before lunch. I can't remember now what the talk was supposed to be about. One thing stands out in my mind. The speaker was talking about how Witnesses shouldn't waste time and money on charities; Jehovah was going to kill all those needy people at Armageddon if they didn't convert anyway, so why bother? The sheer callousness of that statement was like a kick in the guts; I couldn't believe I'd heard it. Then I was disgusted. And no one around me seemed to find anything wrong with what was said; they just sucked it up. At lunch I went out to the car (I'd ridden with someone else and had to wait for them) and refused to go back in. That was the last straw. I wanted no part of a god that would think that way. The last time I set foot in a Kingdom Hall was several years ago for the Memorial. What struck me then was how empty the whole ritual felt. I haven't been back since and don't miss it. A huge weight lifted off me the day I walked away and I don't want it back.
status offlineKBG
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HI SG75,
I could so relate to your story, I wasn't convinced either, but, I went ahead and got dipped at 15. What a mistake-a to make-a!
I remember a girl telling a joke in a restaurant about Catholic kittens and Jehovah's Witness kittens, the Catholic kittens had their eyes closed while the JW kittens had their eyes open. I was so embarrassed. She called it witnessing. The elders/ ministerial servants there didn't see anything wrong with it. I thought it just proved we were A-holes.
Welcome, glad you have some sense and compassion, world needs more of it.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there SG and welcome!
I can't say I blame you for being disgusted. I could never understand why charity was such a dirty word amongst the jdub faithful ... and it was worse when a little charity WITHIN the framework of my local hall would have been handy for those in need and even that wasn't allowed!
It's a doomsday religion ... cult ... or religious cult to give it the right description. People actively praying for the mass destruction of so many innocent people and all because they are told the rest of the non-jdub world are not worth saving! Ridiculous and callous approach to life ... and one that I am glad I walked away from all those years ago. My kids won't be stressing about whether they should be baptised or not. They won't have a whole bunch of sanctimonious types breathing down their necks watching their every move and judging them on every breath they take. My kids will grow up normal. And safe. And happy. And NORMAL!
You were too young to stand firm for what you wanted SG ... 14 is too young for any life changing decision to be made. Your parents should have known better than to encourage you ... and if anything should have advised you to wait until you were older. It's why so many people in the world ... even those in here ... are still tagged with that 'disfellowshipped' label. It's all about control not a commitment to faith. Train them up when they're young ... baptise them ... then scare the life out of them from that day on. You did well to escape when you did!
I hope you enjoy your visits in here ..... you'll find you're in a big group of people from all over the world ... who know EXACTLY how you've been feeling!!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Welcome to the board, sg. I enjoyed reading about your experience.
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"They just know"
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offlinewingnut
"They just know"
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Apr 20 14 5:35 AM
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By way of background I spent 25 years in the org after converting in my early 20's. I stopped attending 16 years ago and you could put me in the drifting away category. I don't pay attention to the jw schedule anymore but I see that the memorial recently took place (didn't get a visit/invite, we must be forgotten). I was an ms and was being "groomed" for more at the time of my departure so I did have a pretty good knowledge at the time.
One thing that always threw me was the anointed thing. When I was young and gung ho in the early 70's we had an elderly member of the congregation who was said to be anointed. I remember struggling with the concept at first and the thing I couldn't wrap my head around was when I would be told that "they just know". The teaching at the time was that god does not communicate with us, if we heard voices or saw apparitions it was assumed to be Satan deceiving us. So here on the one hand was someone like me, if I said that I received any communication or connection of any kind it was deception making me subject to a trip to the library. On the other hand there was this elite class that "just knew".
Did any of you ever get an explanation as to how those professing to be anointed "just knew"? I was told that they did not see visions or hear voices but they "just know". There are people with that far away look in their eyes today who "just know" that they are Napoleon or a host of other historic figures but fortunately most of them are institutionalized.
How about some discussion on the "just know" teaching? I'd like to hear what others were taught and their reaction. When we were jw's our lives were micro managed by the gb which was made up of people who "just knew". As the 70's gave way to the 80's I remember that others in the congregation who must have emulated the position of the elderly man I mentioned at the outset began to profess that they "just knew". Pretty soon we had several partaking and I remember hearing talks on the subject of how a person would "just know" they had a legitimate claim to being one of the 144,000. If memory serves me there were one or two who "just knew" and partook but after some "counsel" they stopped partaking.
I found it odd that all the teachings were cut and dried structured things except when it came down to knowing one was chosen by God and then they "just knew". I live in the same congressional district (no I did not vote for her) as a delusional woman who made the claim that God spoke to her in her kitchen over breakfast one morning and "told her" she should run for political office. That's right my friends, Michelle Bachmann "just knew" so I guess we could say that those professing to be anointed due to "just knowing" have some interesting parallels in the political arena.
status offlineFiguringitout20
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Apr 20 14 7:43 AM
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I have wondered the same thing. We had one "anointed" in our hall. I remember asking him how he knew when I was a kid and never got anything more informative than "I just know". If any younger ones partook, they were always counseled since it was believed only older ones could be anointed. You're right it's not consistent with their normal black and white teachings. Very strange.
status offlinepunkofnice
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No explanation because there isn't one.
I summise it's just an individual wanting to be a cut above or it's because they are just delusional.
I met some oddball 'annointed(TM)' folks in my time so just think they're delusional or on a power trip.
Now that the GB have demoted the 'annointed class(tm)' it won't matter going forward.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlinewingnut
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Apr 22 14 4:15 PM
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The more important question is why I'm still checking this board sixteen years after I last set foot in a KH. It's the religion that "keeps on giving". smiley: pimp
status offlinepunkofnice
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wingnut wrote:
The more important question is why I'm still checking this board sixteen years after I last set foot in a KH. It's the religion that "keeps on giving". smiley: pimpBecause we're cool!
We have something in common with each other that we cannot fully share with those that were never 'in the truth(R)'.
Share the coolness!
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlineinspecterD
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I had a different take on this subject. You see my two paternal grandparents claimed to be of the anointed. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that they planned on going to heaven and leave all of the rest of their beloved family behind to never speak to them again. I was upset by it as a child and then as I grew older just accepted it. I was once told by my Mom that grandma professed because she never wanted to be separated from grandpa. ??? My Dad also had some issues with his parents being of the anointed since they were kinda odd and didn't always fit in with the Borgs rants and raves. He explained to me that since WE never could tell who really were of the anointed that is why we used the words "they PROFESS to be of the anointed". Left some wiggle room for those of us who might question whether someone was or wasn't of the anointed. I was always left with the impression that to question one of the anointed was a pretty bad sin so that is why my Dad would never actually question my grandparents hope.
It's just one of those oddities of the Borg that will probably settle itself when the Borg stops focusing on the anointed's numbers. LOL
Oh and another thing that interested me was that Grandpa would go to those special "anointed...invited" meetings to vote for stuff. Never fully understood all of that. Anyway, I wonder if they still invite all those who profess to those meetings. Kinda gave them a status. I never could understand how new light would come to just the GB and not the rest of the anointed. My grandpa was pretty smart and was a very nice person and claiming to be anointed since he was first in the Borg that should have given him some pull.
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Inspector, from my recollection last year all "active" members were invited to this special meeting that previously was only for the anointed. Other posters here, and I correct on this?
status offlineMarked for life
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We had one 'annointed' sister in our hall. She ended up killing herself in her car by setting it on fire while she was inside.
I guess she was mistaken.
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Well I was always told the same thing....that they just knew, just like I knew that I was a woman, they knew that they were going to heaven. The entire thing is bizarre because they c hanged it all recently but for years they said that the literature was written by the faithful and discrete slave who were also the anointed but I know a ton of professed anointed that never had anything to do with what was written in the literature. Then recently they now believe that the only ones that are the faithful slave are the GB....kinda like the government giving itself a financial raise....ya know. All in favor...say yay
status offlinewingnut
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I haven't been keeping up with the organizational changes so thanks for bringing them to my attention. There are some very interesting observations and lines of reasoning in this thread. Thanks.
status offlinewingnut
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One more quick point about why I brought this up. If there isn't any verifiable supernatural experience associated with "just knowing" anyone can claim to "just know" and I think it's pretty well documented that this has happened. On the other hand, if there were a personal supernatural experience (a) it could not be verified by anyone else and (b) how does one discern the source of the alleged experience? It is in harmony with JW teachings that Satan wants to trick people and what better way of tricking the JW's than fooling people into thinking that they "just know" so he could infiltrate from the inside.
Consequently, the whole idea of anyone just knowing is rife with conflicts and contradictions. I remember when I first came in we were taught that any anointed selected from the 70's on would have been as replacements for those who were unfaithful. Now I'm reading about the number of those partaking increasing which wouldn't seem to make any sense from a long time JW's standpoint. I know how they always can find a positive spin on things when they're wrong so I'm sure those who have been active are looking at it as new light.
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This thread did make me chuckle Wingie!
I've grown up with the 'just know' and the 'you know' and the 'they know'. Plus the 'just knew', 'you knew' and 'they knew'. Always a source of amusement in the old 144,000 'they just know' explanation. I used to wonder 'well what DO they just know?' ..... so I'd ask 'how do they just know'. Only to be given one of those 'looks' and a clipped 'they just know right'. Well no ... that's not right but the old 'just know' comment seems to have a high status in the borg.
I guess that's why our still-tangled-up-in-the-borg family and friends shun us or give us one of those 'looks' ... accompanied with my other favourite saying ... 'but you KNOW it's the truth!'
I know? It's the truth? Really?
See? It's legendary you know, we know, they all know stuff that keeps me coming back for more!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCee Cee
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My grandparents were "anointed". They were born in the 1880s, 1890s, and became Bible Students after reading Millions Now Living Will Never Die in 1920-25. They had taken communion in their previous religions and just kept at it as Witz. I guess that early on it wasn't the big deal it became in later years. I never asked them how they knew, I just accepted it. As for special privileges or meetings for them, there were none. The only 'Anointed' who had any real say in the WT were the ones at Bethel. The rest were just treated with the polite respect due elderly people back in those days. (Not much of that going on these days.)
They were truly lovely kind people, and never had the mean spirited disposition I came to expect among the Witnesses later on.
Cee Cee
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The WBT$ seems to think the 'annointed(tm)' are not all that:-
Anointed are nuts - August 15, 2011 Watchtower (the study edition) pg 22 QfR: Memorial partakers. This is the number
of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed
ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlinebirdwoman2
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We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know
Oh. I see.
The 'annointed' just know, but the GB don't know.
Yup. Makes perfect sense.
Crazy
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
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I remember a woman who was "anointed" in my hall. I asked my friends who'd been JWs for a long time how she knew. They told me "she just knows." The woman had a reputation for being a bit ditzy, but they never tried to talk her out of partaking, because only Jehovah could know for sure. It was the one thing they seemed to leave between God and the individual.
I remember a man partaking too. I only noticed it once. But that was simply accepted. He was very active in the hall, very solid person.
Janet
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"jehovah made it apparent to me" was the explanation I got when I asked. Seemed like a pretty vague/evasive answer at the time.
Oh-- the joys of being raised , or spending time in a cult environment.
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Locutus wrote:
Oh-- the joys of being raised , or spending time in a cult environment. 61f3600913af8e422481d49909269ff0e926d6c6Yes. I feel it has skewed my view of reality. It has made my life abnormal so I feel I don't fit in anywhere.
My Mum wants me to go back but I would never go back to that filth now I know the truth about the 'truth(R)'.
Mum thinks I'm unhappy because I no longer have the 'truth(R)' and if I go back I'll be happy - I can't convince her that my happiness is not dependant on a filthy cult.....my unhappiness is not the result of leaving the watchtower(tm) cult but as a result of the abuse of the cult itself.....if that makes sense.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
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So if I decided I was one of the so-called anointed, how could anyone prove I'm not? I 'just know'. I met one of the anointed when he visited our KH. His wife was not anointed and I thought how sad that god would want to split up such a sweet elderly couple. My mom was gushing over meeting this elderly man and saying how she could just feel the holiness radiating off him. Me, eight years old and never knowing when to keep my mouth shut, piped up and said he was just an old man.
status offlineJoe Magarac
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I managed to convince myself I was one of the anointed after praying about it.
I thought that was how it was done.
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Both my paternal grandparents 'professed' as did their first two children. Their firstborn son became a member of the GB later in life. My grandfather found the 'truff' in 1913 or 14. My aunt and uncle were born in 1910 and circa 1912. So all of them came up long before there was an 'earthly hope.' My father was born in 1923 and by the time the 'earthly hope' became 'evident' he was only 12 years old or so. The people who were from that time just naturally fit in with the heavenly calling I think, and after 1935, or whenever the 'great crowd' became 'evident,' people were mainly drawn to an everlasting life in a paradise earth.
It's funny they say many of the newer anointed class are possibly mentally or emotionally imbalanced. Better watch out for them... they are only one step away from all of us "mentally diseased" folks.
"The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones." Yeah, I call bullshit. How is it they publish the "number of partakers" every year in the yearbook? I know for damn sure they count the ones who partake at the memorial. They send the count into the Borg. Maybe they don't keep track of their names, but they sure as hell DO know how many "profess."
I wonder when they will come out with: "...evidently, 144,00 is a symbolic number." Then there won't be this problem of who goes to heaven and who stays on earth... they will be one step closer to morphing into mainstream Christianity.
“The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn but to unlearn.” ~ Gloria Steinem
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status offlinebirdwoman2
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Thank you for that information on the video, Woohoo.
I watched it all but it was very long and dry in many parts as well as I had to ignore the evangelical approach to the analysis of the movement.
However, it was a good video and informative.
The one theme though, that I thought should have been number one on his list of Miller themes, was the idea of publishing magazines. All of the Advent movement owes its very existence to the publishing industry. Without Joseph Hines stepping in and reviving Wm. Miller's end times doctrines through the publication of a magazine, the Advent movement would never have been where it is today. And, of course, the WTBS is continuing the tradition of proclaiming that the 'Word' is authoritative - the 'word' being their word in the form of publicized material. In other words, if we (WTBS) control the 'word' (publications) then, we (WTBS) must be from Gawd.
Which brings up a question - where do the splinter groups, such as the one in the opening post, get their literature from? Or do they just recycle the old publications? Which would be weird...I have always wondered what has happened to all the old publications that have been spread will nilly throughout the world. Do people use them to start fires? I can see that in the'old days'...but...not too many wood burning stoves out there now. I guess the blue bins would work...recycling and all that.
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status offlinewoohoo
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May 28 14 1:32 PM
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birdwoman2 wrote:
I watched it all but it was very long and dry in many parts as well as I had to ignore the evangelical approach to the analysis of the movement.
However, it was a good video and informative.
I agree. I watched half one day and the other half the next.
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Sects of Jehovahs witnesses
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offlinenevermind
Sects of Jehovahs witnesses
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Apr 23 12 3:36 AM
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Something interesting came up on one of the Coping Board threads, a poster from Eastern Europe said there were a few "extreme JW's" in the area stuck in the 1960's timewarp!
It came from this thread: http://exjehovahswitnessf...u.com/topic/23390?page=2
It turns out, that the "True JW's" got separated from the Brooklyn Bethel and became largely independent of the org, having only a few publications up to a certain era.
In 1962, the org changed a doctrine of the "superior authorities" (Romans Chapter 13) from Jesus and Jehovah, to the World Governments. The witnesses in the Eastern bloc thought it could be a KGB trick, so didn't accept the teaching as valid.
Fast forward to the 1990's, the Berlin wall falls and the governing Body rushes East to meet the brothers in countries like Romania and Russia. They have their own organizational structure, largely independent and then find out about the failed prophecies of 1975 ect. They say the Governing Body has strayed from the "true faith" and remain independent, becoming even more hard line than the Brooklyn organization!
I guess this made it easier to disagree with the org, as many after the 1975 fallout were scared of disfellowshipping, but if you have your own leadership that disagrees with it, its a bit easier to break away!
This is one of the splinter groups I have found:
http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/
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They only accept the doctrines up to 1962, and then have their own doctrines.
Does anyone know of any other splinter groups? Its unsurprising that the GB covered this up and did not publicize it at all
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Thanks for making a separate thread of this nevermind :-)
I'm sure a lot will be surprised about this...........I know I had never heard of it!!
If they consider us ex-jw to be 'mentally-diseased apostates', goodness knows how they view these breakaways............and yet I have heard no mention of them in any jw literature........whereas us apostates are always getting both barrels??!!
Sam
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A few more, here are the Bible students in modern form, after the Proclaimers book said they all died off
http://www.biblestandard.com/
They still publish the old teachings of Pastor Russell, after the schism with de Judge!
http://biblestudents.net/sample-page/
A more modern sect, I think revolving around a mathematical approach to the "Bible code"
http://www.lordswitnesses.us/index.htm
status offlinebirdwoman2
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And even more....
From this link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/20779/1/Splinter-Groups
Below is a listing of Bible Student groups who adhere to the teachings of Charles Taze Russell in one form or another. It has been stated that the Society today has over 500 offshoots, that number may have grown since last I remember some ten years ago. The year next to the group is the year of its incorporation.
New Covenant Fellowship 1909 [Australia]
New Covenant Believers 1909
Associated Bible Students 1914 [Formerly IBSA, name changed in 1914]
Bible Students Publishing Company 1914 [UK]
Bible Fellowship Union 1917 [UK]
Angel of Jehovah Bible and Tract Society 1918 [F.L.A. Freytag]
Berean Bible Institute 1918 [Australia]
Stand Fast Bible Students Association 1918
Pastoral Bible Institute, Inc. 1918 [formed by the 4 ousted directors]
Laymen's Home Missionary Movement 1918 [Paul S.L. Johnson]
Forest Gate Church 1920 [UK]
Christian Truth Institute 1920? [UK]
New Jerusalem Fellowship 1922 [UK]
Elijah Voice Society 1923
Institute of Pyramidology 1923 [UK]
Servants of Yah 1925
Old Paths Publications 1925 [UK]
Christian Millennial Fellowship, Inc. 1928 [Gaetano Boccaccio]
Dawn Bible Students Association 1928 reorganized as DAWN in 1932
Watchers of the Morning 1937 [offshoot of Pastoral Bible Institute]
Goshen Fellowship 1951 [Jesse Hemery UK]
Epiphany Bible Students Association 1957 [John Hoefle]
Laodicean Home Missionary Movement 1957 [John Krewson]
These are the English speaking groups. There are foreign language groups all over Europe, the Middle East and Asia that publish their own journals and literature in cooperation with the USA groups.
The above are just the Bible Student groups, in the 1930s through the present, there have been Jehovah's Witness offshoots, too numerous to document.
And more from this link: http://witness-outreach.com/Splinter.html
And, there is even more.....I will return with some stuff I have stashed on an old computersmiley: wink.
The list of breakaway groups and splinter groups is lengthy (over 500 according to the above quote!).
smiley: smile
status offlineceej
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status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Funny story: When I first left the JW's I actually looked into a few of these groups, mainly the Russelites who hold to all of CT's original teachings. My thoughts were that Rutherford had polluted the religion, but if you stuck with Russell things might be better. But that was obviously just a coping mechanism, because I dismissed it pretty quickly and now I'm an atheist.
It's fascinating how many JW splinter groups there are. They are not NEARLY as united as they think. Also another fun fact: when Rutherford came into power, they had the biggest splinter in their history, with more than half leaving if I remember right. Their numbers dwindled though, but the Bible Students said it was prophesied they would decrease in number and that it was part of God's divine plan for them. Pretty sad.
There's a wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_splinter_groups <--- copy and paste that to your browser, the text won't hyperlink correctly for some reason.
-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
- John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Apr 23 12 11:55 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinenevermind
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SwingLifeAway wrote:
Also another fun fact: when Rutherford came into power, they had the biggest splinter in their history, with more than half leaving if I remember right.
To be fair, it seems that Rutherford splintered away from the Bible students. The Bible students were first, and all the congregations were their own entities. Under Rutherford, he made them subservient to Brooklyn Bethel and kicked out all the old Russilite directors.
Not all the congregations followed with him, unsurprisingly. Of course, the proclaimers book made it look like the Bible students splintered from Rutherford
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Apr 23 12 4:51 PM
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There are actually many splinter groups from the JWs, not that the Watchtower Society will admit it:
The Watchtower, November 1 (2009) p.19 article "Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a Protestant Religion?"
"...unlike the Protestant movement, which has splintered into hundreds of denominations, Jehovah’s Witnesses have maintained a united global brotherhood. "
Here are some splinter groups that I have found:
BIBLE FELLOWSHIP UNION
According to the "Bible Fellowship Union", their group began in 1945 with the intention of spreading Russell's teachings, as well as supporting the accuracy of biblical history, archaeology and prophecy. It was headed by Albert Hudson until he died in 1995, after which Derrick Nadal became editor. In his early years Hudson was affiliated with the Wathtower Society but he discontinued this association shortly after Russell died. Although we could not find membership numbers, they do have a website which publishes their monthly magazine "The Bible Study Monthly". According to their website: This journal is published for the promotion of Bible knowledge, maintaining the historical accuracy of the Scriptures and validity of their miraculous and prophetic content viewed in the light of modern understanding. It stands for the pre-millennial Advent of our Lord and His reign of peace and justice on earth. It is supported entirely by the voluntary gifts of its readers and all such gifts are sincerely appreciated. You can view their website by clicking here.
THE TRUTH FAITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ASSOCIATION
The Government of Romania instituted a ban on the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1948 which lasted until the ban was lifted in 1990 (after the communist regime collapsed). During the years under ban, the Romanian Jehovah's Witnesses were unable to have free access to current Watchtower Society literature and thus had to make do with what little literature they already had. Although some newer literature was able to be smuggled in, these newer publications were a rare commodity that came few and far between. Due to these difficulties, Watchtower Society “new light” wasn't reaching the Romanian members in sufficient numbers. Therefore, after the ban was lifted, the Governing Body from the Watchtower Society met with the Romanian elders to help them “catch up” on all they missed over the years.
Because there had been so many changes in the teachings during the time of ban, some of the Romanian membership believed that the Watchtower Society had gone apostate during that time; thus they decided that the right thing to do would be to separate from them. In 1992 they formed the True Faith Jehovah's Witness Association, which is actually a collective of groups. These ones staunchly adhere to earlier Jehovah's Witness doctrine taught before 1960, and continue with practices such as the regular use of God's name (“Jehovah”), gathering together in annual conventions, performing the door to door ministry, immersion baptism, and the publication of a magazine (The Herald of Jehovah's Kingdom). Although we have been unable to find current membership numbers, it is notable that their website can be read in eight different languages: English, Romanian, French, Italian, Magyar, Spanish, German, and Russian. You can access their website here.
THEOCRATIC ASSOCIATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
This is a Russian based group who also believed that the Watchtower Society went apostate when it published “new light” on certain doctrines, believing that the changes were actually a deceptive ruse from the KGB; therefore they discontinued using Watchtower publications printed after 1962. This group has grown to have members in Russia, Moldova, and Ukraine. Because the group does not document attendance records, the number of members is currently unknown. This group offers some of the earlier Jehovah's Witnesses literature pre-1962. This group is also associated with the Theocratic Bible Institute. We could not find a website for this group, but they are mentioned on another website accessed here.
THE LORD'S WITNESSES
The Lord's Witnesses is a British based group founded by Gordon Ritchie, a former Jehovah's Witness who was disfellowshipped for apostasy in 1996. This group still holds to a few of the Jehovah's Witness teachings, such as rejection of the Trinity, God's personal Name (“Jehovah”), Jesus as the Archangel Michael, 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times and Christ's presence, disfellowshipping, refusal to orally consume blood, and acceptance of new light, among a few other things. Many of the non-Jehovah's-Witness-based doctrines they teach are far removed from Bible truth. This group has adherents on both the European and North American continents. You can access their website here.
CHRISTIAN WITNESSES OF JAH
The Christian Witnesses of Jah was founded by Greg Stafford, a disassociated Jehovah's Witness. According to their online tract titled “Christian Witnesses of Jah” (2009), they state: “Christian Witnesses of Jah are those who have come to accept as true, without claiming to know for a certainty, that there is a God named Jah, that he sent forth a Saviour or Messiah known as Jesus of Nazareth, and that we can learn a great deal about them from the Bible. We reject the idea that we must follow what can be shown to be nothing but traditions from men or from women, that is, traditions which clearly contradict the good reasons for belief found in nature and supported by the Bible.”This group promotes the gathering of believers in individual homes for worship and publishes free online literature. You can read their tract here.
GOD'S KINGDOM SOCIETY
This is a rather large group which has its headquarters located in Nigeria, Africa. It began with a man named Gideon M. Urhobo who, after reading some literature published by Joseph Rutherford, briefly became a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It wasn't long before Urhobo began disagreeing with some of the Watchtower Society's teachings, resulting in his being disfellowshipped for apostasy. Therefore, he began teaching the Bible as he understood it to mean, thus founding the God's Kingdom Society. The headquarters of God's Kingdom Society does not keep a tally of its membership numbers (because they believe it is unbiblical to do so; 2 Samuel 24), but it is notable that the website can be read in over 50 languages and they list contacts for 49 branch offices in at least 9 different countries in the African and North American continents. Some estimates state that the number in the membership is as high as 3 million. You can view their website here.
TRUE FRIENDS OF JEHOVAH'S WAY and
THEOCRATICE ASSOC. OF TRUE WORSHIPERS OF JEHOVAH
This is actually a collective of groups from the Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Moldova, Russia, etc. which eventually spread into the Americas. This group publishes literature in several languages, including: English, Slovak, Romanian, Korean, Croatian, Hungarian, German, Italian, Polish, Russian and Spanish. Much like some of the other groups mentioned in this article, it was the fall of communism that produced this collective with a similar story: During the reign of communism Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the communist countries; therefore they were unable to receive fresh and updated literature from the Watchtower Society during that time. Once communism fell, the Watchtower Society was able to freely distribute new literature to these ones. Upon receiving the new literature many of the Jehovah's Witnesses became “painfully aware” of the doctrinal changes which steered away from the older teachings they had been adhering to for so long while under ban. These ones came to the conclusion that the Watchtower Society had become apostate and therefore refused to accept the newer teachings as truth. This crisis spawned numerous splinter groups, and so it was decided to create The Association of True Friends of Jehovah's Way in order to unite these groups, forming what they consider to be a Theocratic Association of True Worshipers of Jehovah God. Each group who is united under the umbrella of this organization consider themselves to be Jehovah's Witnesses, although the Watchtower Society does not recognize them as such. You can view their website here.
THEOCRATIC BIBLE INSTITUTE
The Theocratic Bible Institute publishes the online journal “Kingdom Witness.” According to their website they are not an organization, but simply a publisher of Bible based literature. This group has a global readership in numerous countries on all six inhabited continents, and was selected as the official publisher of literature for the International Theocratic Bible Students Association in the Republic of Slovakia. This group has connections with the following organizations: True Friends of Jehovah's Way, True Faith Association of Jah's Worshipers, Theocratic Association of Jehovah's True Witnesses (Russia, Siberia), International Theocratic Bible Students Association (Republic of Slovenia), The Syrian Bible Students, and the True Faith Jehovah's Witness Association (The Americas). You can view their website here.
YAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS WORLD WIDE
This is a sect founded by Donald Curtis Burney and is known as the YORWW or "Living Waters" Congregation. Since the year of 2006, it's headquarters & center of activity has primarily been located in the West Indies island of Jamaica. According to Burney's own biography, he was born and raised as a Jehovah's Witness and was eventually baptized into the denomination at the age of 15, in 1968. Ten years later, in 1978, he was accepted as an elder (pastor) in his local congregation. A few months after that appointment, he achieved the rank of Presiding Overseer (the head pastor of the congregation). It was some 13 years after this appointment, in 1991, that Burney officially left the denomination after having privately questioned the Jehovah's Witness doctrine for over a decade. Several of his family members and friends from the Jehovah's Witness congregation (16 in all) joined him in his exit as well, forming what was first called TWMC [Two Witnesses Must Come] Movement. Ten years after that, in 2001, Burney founded the YORWW Congregation where he currently claims to be the "Chieftain" (Eze. 44:3) within God's spiritual temple and also the "Ark of the Covenant" and the atoned-for "Scapegoat" of Leviticus 16:10. This splinter group hosts an undisclosed number of members to date. Over a twenty (20) year period since their formation, this group has published books, given media interviews, created websites, and publicly distributes doctrinal literature for free. You can view their website here.
This Burney guy is quite a joke: When I published a blurb about his group on my website, he politely emailed me a "more accurate" version of the information, which I posted on my site verbatim according to HIS words.... AND THEN he threatened me with legal action because I stated that those were his words! (And I still have the thread of emails to prove that it was HIS words). I told him to go fight his war elsewhere.
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Apr 23 12 5:37 PM
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wow ...this is maddness ...I dont know what to think ...i never heard of this ...wow ...they never mention this ...my heads spinning...crazy ! it makes me sick to think theres even more of them ...
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Apr 23 12 8:08 PM
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Erm, wow. Now I want my own cult. Tax free status, power, and my own minions! I gotta get my message together and start working on my speaking voice again.
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Dude! This is the coolest thing I've heard about in a minute. Seriously, this is better than sects.
"Go, I will. Good relations with the Wookies I have"
*chuckles*
Last Edited By: leapofthefrog Apr 24 12 5:10 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Apr 24 12 6:59 AM
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The light of information reveals excruciatingly foolish former beliefs.
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A link that has a very lengthy discussion with much detail about Watchtower Fallouts and subsequent schisms:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/67838/1/Watchtower-Fallout
smiley: smile
Alice laughed…
"One can’t believe impossible things!"
"I daresay you haven’t had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
- Lewis Carroll Alice in Wonderland
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Well that should be great material for s "SHUT UP' reply for when JW BRAG That unlike the rest of CHRISTENDOM "they" don't don't have splinter groups like the Catholics, protestants, Orthodox etc...
I want to end my seasons like I started them ...free! ~~ Uncle Andy - 98yrs old 2012 ~~
What I believe now is that the WBT$ must be stopped! They have ruined lives and been responsible for the deaths of too many innocent people in the name of delusion._ PUNKOFNICE 2012
As to the existence of a "creator" I say we are all agnostics as a matter of epistemology, Whether you are an atheist, or the Pope. Some people claim to know, and that is fine for them. But why should I believe that they saw what they claim, or that they believe what they say they saw? I saw nothing and they have shown me nothing _ SE7EN 2012
Because Jehovah's Witnesses believe as little in psychology as they do in philosophy, it tames or numbs the wilderness of the heart by closing valves of inquiry." _Barbara Grizzuti Harrison.
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Apr 26 12 1:42 AM
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The crazy thing is, is that God's Kingdom society has a membership estimate of 3million!!!!! And it has a kingdom hall right down the road from me!
It just shows, they have as many divisions as any other religion. And quite successful ones at that!
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Apr 26 12 9:44 AM
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Sects of Jehovah's Witnesses can't be oral, they stick to what is written.
And at least some sects don't seem as anal as the Watchtower Babble and Trick society.
They lie when they say JWs don't have sects.
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Apr 26 12 12:34 PM
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Yep, JW’s don’t approve of sects especially pre-marital sects, oral sects and anal sects, even though they are the world’s most anal sect with their constant obsession with premature evangelism regarding the coming of JC. If they had their own way they would forbid sects in the bedroom too.
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Apr 26 12 10:22 PM
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lol ..leave it up to you all to make this funny...
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May 12 14 6:03 PM
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birdwoman2 wrote:
And even more....
And, there is even more.....I will return with some stuff I have stashed on an old computersmiley: wink.
The list of breakaway groups and splinter groups is lengthy (over 500 according to the above quote!).
smiley: smile
The Watch Tower Society has had plenty of schisms in the past, depending on who was in charge. We have to keep in mind that even C.T. Russell broke away from the Adventist groups of his day to form the Watch Tower, which during his presidency was just a publishing house, a "business" to do the Lord's work. It wasn't until AFTER he died that Judge Rutherford reinvented the association, purged out all of Russell's followers, and reorganized under the name Jehovah's Witnesses and claimed they are alone were God's true people.
There were early schism during the very beginning, none of these groups exist today. I actually met probably one of the last followers of Nelson Barbour, who died a few years ago. (No, her was around from that time, but he was a believer in Barbour's theology and published a newsletter)
There was a schism in 1894, 1897, the big one was in 1909, then in 1914, later between 1916-1931, there were hundreds of independent Bible Student groups forming all over the world. These were the ones who separated when Rutherford took over and began changing everything. And while they were independent of each other, forming their own organizations and printing their own literature, and polarizing as a result, they did cooperate with one another.
Later in the 1930s and 40s, more left, congregations split in half, some joined the Bible Students, others started their own ministries. In the 1950s and 1960s, there were even more schism within the Watchtower, which gave birth to various Jehovah's Witness offshoots that continue till this day, all over the world.
I would say that 500 groups is a conservative number, it may be more. I have a listing of most of them.
RR
_______________
"I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." Phil 3:14
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May 23 14 4:04 PM
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Hi RR, would you like to tell us more?...I’m sure there are many here who would welcome more details. (sources of info would be good as well)
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
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May 28 14 2:54 AM
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There's a youtube video I watched recently called The Watchtower Roots, Shoots, and Those in Cahoots. It was a very informative video, and there was a chart showing sects within WTBS - both active and inactive.
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