Login close Jehovah's Witness BlogHomeBlogAboutContactIt’s About Time!
Time plays a crucial role in the Watchtower religion. In this article we are going to examine how the concept of time is twisted by the Watchtower in an attempt to absolve Jehovah from the sin of telling the first lie. Back to the Beginning Let’s go back to the beginning (or very nearly the [& [...]
Do You Trust the Governing Body?
At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. Now is the time for any who [...]
Will Jehovah’s Witnesses Populate Other Planets?
When I was growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, I had to sit through a weekly Bible Study. This unfortunate weekly waste of my time was carried out by a lovely brother, Richard Baptiste. Richard was (and probably still is) great, which is a shame as I really put him through his paces. You see, [ [...]
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Jehovah's Witness Blog » Funnies, Real Life Experiences » Jehovah’s Witness Weddings
Jehovah’s Witness Weddings
Submitted by Teeny on February 11, 2011 - 11:31 am One Comment Have you ever been to any Jehovah's Witness Weddings?Have you ever been to Jehovah’s Witness weddings? If you have, you may find this slightly exaggerated version of events funny. If you’ve never taken part in Jehovah’s Witness weddings, you’ll still find this funny. If you’re a Jehovah’s Witness and have been to several Jehovah’s Witness weddings, you won’t find this funny because lets face it, the cult has sucked out any remaining humour you may have had.
Picture this……
As the bride and groom walk out of the Kingdom hall just after getting married, someone in the welcoming crowd throws confetti over the newly married couple. As the confetti is in mid-air, the bride runs away, shrieking in horror as she tries to dodge this Satanic shower.
The groom unfortunately gets pelted with this demon-possessed worldly material and is distraught. His friends drag the guilty person out of the hall premises and deal with him accordingly. How dare they shower this spiritual occasion with Satanist rocks!
At the reception, this irritating worldly relative insists on clinking classes with everyone in the room while cheering; “To the beautiful new bride and groom…cheers!”
As the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the reception room see this act of devilry, they dive for cover. Crystal glasses are smashed, so as to avoid the ritual of Satanic toasting, a ritual which all Jehovah’s Witnesses know full well, may jeopardize their eternal future.
Then, the worst thing possible happens. Put it this way, if this next scene was in a film, the BBFC would insist that the film studio have it removed due to it’s sickness.
I advise all Jehovah’s Witnesses that the section below could cause mental and irrevocable damage.
Viewer Discretion is Advised!The Groom’s twin brother turns up to the wedding reception. He was disfellowshipped for being gay! Oh my God! How can this be? Who invited a disfellowshipped person to this holy wedding?!
Not only does this disfellowshipped one turn up, but he brings his partner with him, his disfellowshipped partner!
At the sight of these two, all the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the room scream with terror! Anarchy hits as families try to leave the reception room via the windows. The witnesses bang on the windows incessantly, in an attempt to have them opened.
“Don’t even look at them!”, screams an elder from across the room.
“Michael (the Groom) will have his privileges taken away”, shouts another man.
……In my opinion, Jehovah’s Witness weddings are messed up, especially if I recall the last Jehovah’s Witness wedding I went to.
Jehovah's Witness Weddings in CyprusNow I know I’ve gone on about Jehovah’s Witnesses in Cyprus being different to any other sort of Jehovah’s Witness I’ve met, but my personal account of Sasha’s and Pampina’s wedding takes the absolute biscuit!
In the Jehovah’s Witness wedding parody, I made note that confetti is strictly forbidden in any Jehovah’s Witness wedding. Or so I thought. As we all waiting for the happy bride and groom to enter the hall, around 8 bubbly Cypriot Jehovah’s Witnesses spread themselves out across the path that the happy couple would take on their way to their table. These paraders then pulled out confetti cannons.
I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. As the bride and groom entered the wedding hall (not Kingdom Hall), the confetti cannon holding Jehovah’s Witnesses began firing them off.
Now I know I shouldn’t feel stumbled, but I simply couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I turned to a Jehovah’s Witness that was sat near me and I asked him using confetti cannons is a done thing in Cyprus at Jehovah’s Witness weddings.
Well, as long as they’re not actually throwing rice in the air with their hands…
That was his response. Amazing! By the way, did I tell you that the groom, Sasha Bulatovic is a Jehovah’s Witness elder? His father-in-law is also an elder. I digress…
Tags: Jehovah's Witness Hypocrites, Jehovah's Witness Weddings
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Login close Jehovah's Witness BlogHomeBlogAboutContactIt’s About Time!
Time plays a crucial role in the Watchtower religion. In this article we are going to examine how the concept of time is twisted by the Watchtower in an attempt to absolve Jehovah from the sin of telling the first lie. Back to the Beginning Let’s go back to the beginning (or very nearly the [& [...]
Do You Trust the Governing Body?
At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. Now is the time for any who [...]
Will Jehovah’s Witnesses Populate Other Planets?
When I was growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, I had to sit through a weekly Bible Study. This unfortunate weekly waste of my time was carried out by a lovely brother, Richard Baptiste. Richard was (and probably still is) great, which is a shame as I really put him through his paces. You see, [ [...]
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Jehovah's Witness Blog » Jehovah's Witness Beliefs » Gay Jehovah’s Witness Victims
Gay Jehovah’s Witness Victims
Submitted by Andrew on March 15, 2012 - 8:35 pm 79 Comments What happens to gay Jehovah's Witnesses?Let’s spare a moment to think about the gay Jehovah’s Witness victims.
If you didn’t know this, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not condone homosexuality. Romans 12:19 is often used to instruct the flock to ‘abhor what is wicked.’ Also, they believe that men who lie with men will not inherit god’s kingdom. In Leviticus, the penalty for homosexuality is death. Leviticus 18:22 says, ““‘And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.” Verse 29 says, “In case anyone does any of all these detestable things, then the souls doing them must be cut off from among their people.”
Obviously, in the eyes of a Jehovah’s Witness, committing ‘homosexual acts’ is a sin. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told to hate what is bad.
Not only are homosexual people not allowed privileges in the congregation, it is a cause for disfellowshipping. But that doesn’t make Jehovah’s Witnesses homophobic, does it?
Um. Yes! Undoubtedly. By treating homosexual people differently from heterosexual people, they are being prejudiced and even incite hatred. After all, you can’t just ‘hate the act’ as so many Jehovah’s Witnesses like to parrot, when being homosexual is more than just anal sex, which, incidentally, is forbidden (by the Jehovah’s Witness hierarchy), even in heterosexual relations. Sexuality is part of what makes up a person, his or her character, etc.
People don’t choose what sex they are attracted to. It is how they are born. Jehovah’s Witness literature seems to acknowledge this a little bit in the Young People Ask article, Homosexuality – How Can I Avoid It? It says, in an almost backhanded insult, “It is not the purpose of this article to delve into the “nature-versus-nurture” debate. Indeed, it seems that it would be a gross oversimplification to attribute homosexuality to a single cause. Homosexuality—much like other forms of behavior—appears to be far more complex than that.”
It also says, “Regardless of the cause, the important thing to realize is that the Bible condemns homosexual acts. Thus, the person who is struggling with same-sex desires is presented with a reachable goal—he or she can choose not to act on those desires.”
So, god created some people to be homosexual, or allowed them to be born into sin without choice of their sexuality, and will then punish them for it? Also, as a heterosexual man, homosexual relations are not something that attract me, but that doesn’t make it wrong – I used to be a closed minded Jehovah’s Witness too, but since breaking free, I have seen how homosexual relations are more than just sex – they are relationships.
By denying men and women the right to fall in love with someone based on an old, immoral, book, Jehovah’s Witnesses should be ashamed of themselves.
But what of those homosexual people who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, but ‘suppress their urges’, as encouraged in the Watchtower literature? I’ve heard it said, “Yes, but they don’t act on their impulses!” Well, how do we know they don’t? They could be succumbing to their urges even as you read this post.
The fact is that many Jehovah’s Witnesses are homosexual and have to suppress what makes them, them, all due to the homophobia that is preached throughout their ranks. Some people have even been driven to suicide thanks to this abhorrent teaching from a so-called religion of ‘love’.
Tags: Gay Jehovah's Witnesses, Homophobia in the Jehovah's Witnesses
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Carlos • 17 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I think that Andrew it's just trying to mislead those that have homosexual desires and are Jehovah's witnesses. Everybody has the right to make a decision. I'm a 23 years old Jehovah's Witness and I am bisexual. I have never had sexual contact with a man or woman and I do believe that what Jehovah God tells us in the Bible is the right thing to do. If you are struggling with the same issue just think that there are many people that have the desire to kill, to have sex with animals, to rob, or do drugs and that doesn't mean that it is right to do it. We feel this way because it is part of sin and the bad decisions that Adam and Eve took. Don't allow comments like this misguide you and think that having sex with a man is the solution. It's extremely hard to fight this but not impossible. Jehovah will give you the strength to do what's right. I do understand what some ex-Jehovah's witnesses are saying about dis fellowship, it is a hard discipline. You have to understand that the reason why you may be dis fellowship is to protect the congregation and because you did not wanted to change your behavior. You are not dis fellowship if you repent yourself.
Andrew, what you said and I quote "Obviously, in the eyes of a Jehovah’s Witness, committing ‘homosexual acts’ is a sin. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told to hate what is bad." is wrong. It is not in our eyes, JEHOVAH is the one that forbid homosexual ACTS, not the desire. We do hate what's bad (the act) not the person. Before you comment or say anything about God or Jehovah's Witnesses, make sure you have the correct information and don't do it because you are resentful or because you might think that the way you see things is correct.
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smmcroberts >Carlos • 16 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Carlos,
I LOVE what you said here:
"Before you comment or say anything about God or Jehovah’s Witnesses,
make sure you have the correct information and don’t do it because you
are resentful or because you might think that the way you see things is
correct."
So, please tell me when Jehovah spoke to you and told you that loving someone was a sin [if they happen to be of the same gender.]
What? Jehovah didn't speak to you?! Then how are you sure that "you have the correct information"? Could it be that you're just saying this "because you might think that the way you see things is correct"?
You also state: " I do believe that what Jehovah God tells us in the Bible is the right thing to do." So, then you believe it's right to stone sassy children and adulterous wives, and to kill "witches"? You believe it's right to kill an animal in recompense for your sinning? You believe that genocide is right when someone tells you that "God commanded it"? You think that murdering babies is the "right thing to do"? These are all things the Bible claims God commanded, and were the "right thing to do" [and it doesn't matter a whit to my point if you think that your "unchanging God" has since changed his mind about those things; at one point, according to your Bible, God said they were right.]
If you really believe all of the above, then it puts your beliefs about homosexuality in proper perspective for us.
Here's the real truth for those who can handle it: There is nothing wrong with loving a person of the same gender, or physically acting on that love. It is irrelevant what some anonymous, barbaric writers might have written about it thousands of years ago. It's also irrelevant what some old men in New York (aka the Governing Body) write about it today -- especially when these are the same guys who say masturbation is a sin, oral sex between husband and wife is a sin, and that a woman who is raped is guilty of fornication if she didn't scream. (On the last two "sins" they have waffled back and forth: proving that they really have no clue about sexuality or what really constitutes a "sin.")
We are capable of distinguishing right from wrong ourselves: What is wrong is the suppression of love in any of the many forms it may take.
Take back your life and be true to who you really are. Don't let a bunch of deluded old fools lay a guilt trip on you.
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Carlos >smmcroberts • 16 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑If you don't think the bible is God's word is fine. The bible clearly says that many would not follow God's word. Jehovah does says that having sex with another man is a sin. Sadly that is something we have to live with. If you decided to have sex with another guy is fine but who ever believes in God has to understand that there are many things that our heart desires but are not right. Our heart is "more treacherous than anything else and is desperate." Jeremiah 17:9.
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smmcroberts >Carlos • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Carlos, you don't follow "God's word" either. You only think you do. Jehovah does not "say" anything--never has. Some ignorant men wrote down what they liked and then in order that people would pay attention they claimed that their god said it. There is no reason to believe them, especially when their writings were mixed with all sorts of factual errors, primitive superstitions, self-contradictions, and impossible events.
You can believe in God without believing that the Bible is God's "word;" millions do exactly that.
We never needed the Bible to tell us what is right and wrong. In fact, it's obvious that the Bible was in error about what was right and wrong in numerous instances, such as slavery, genocide, animal sacrifice, the suppression of women, and homophobia.
You do NOT "sadly...have to live with" suppressing your bi-sexuality. It is a rule with no solid basis whatsoever. Re-examine the reasons why you believe in the Bible (outside of WT publications), because it cannot possibly be "the word of God": http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
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Carlos >smmcroberts • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I have read the bible, it is something we Jehovah's Witnesses do daily. Those men that wrote the bible were inspired by God. How can you explain that they lived in different times and what they wrote is the same and the prophecies are been fulfill these days? You are very Ignorant. If you haven't read the whole bible there is no way you can understand it and know if what it says it's right or not.
You said: "We never needed the Bible to tell us what is right and wrong." Then who is supposed to tell us what's right or wrong? Isn't it God? Or would you say that someone that has more power than you in society can decide what's wrong or not for you?
You say that the bible is not the word of God just because it doesn't go with what you think is right. It's like you are telling God that He is Wrong and YOU are right. That's what you are saying.
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smmcroberts >Carlos • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Carlos, I've read the Bible too: twice from cover-to-cover, and then bits and pieces as a JW for years (same as you.) I also wrote a verse-by-verse commentary on the Bible (link already provided.) So, yes, I do know what it says.
What is your evidence that the men who wrote it were "inspired by God?" We don't even know WHO wrote it, much less their state of mind.
You asked: "How can you explain that they lived in different times and what they wrote is the same and the prophecies are been fulfill these days?"
Your question contains fallacies: what they wrote is NOT the same, and their prophecies are NOT being fulfilled
in these days. The WT has changed its mind about when and how these prophecies have been fulfilled numerous times.
Before you presume to call anyone else "ignorant," please do a little research outside the confines of the Watchtower. You'll soon realize what a ridiculous statement you have made here. (But even after you educate yourself, don't have the effrontery to call someone "ignorant"--because
it's just rude and also shows that you make statements as facts when you don't know what you're talking about.)
No, we don't need the Bible or its God or anyone who has "more power in society" to tell us what is right and wrong. Our inherent sense of empathy does that.
I'm not "telling God that He is Wrong" I'm telling you that the Bible is not the word of any god. If there is a god, then attributing the inspiration of the Bible to that being would be the biggest insult I could think of.
I know that slavery is wrong. I know that killing babies is wrong, etc. If you present me with a book which you claim is inspired by a god of love, and in that book it relates that this god condoned (and regulated) slavery, and ordered his followers to kill babies, then I'm not going to believe your claim that the book is inspired by a god of love. No sensible person could.
If you tell me that this book forbids you from being you, then all I can do (besides pity you) is to point out to you that there is no reason to believe that the book's prohibitions should have any bearing on your life. Why? Because the book is a load of crap--as I've proven in painstaking detail in my verse-by-verse commentary on the Bible: http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
I can do no more for you than that, except to wish you well in your struggle.
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Carlos >smmcroberts • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑This really proves that you were NEVER a Witness. You pretended to be one. We do know who wrote each book of the bible, their names and the approximate time when they did it. You are not able to link what they say and see what the similarities are because you were not reading consciously. You my friend are what is called a apostate. I don't need you to pity me. I have a purpose in life and feel happiness. I'm trying my best to make God happy and help others to do the same. As I said before, you want to have sex with guys awesome for you, I'm not missing anything. If we were supposed to have sex with other men then women wouldn't have existed and men would be able to give birth.
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smmcroberts >Carlos • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Carlos, Once again you are stating as facts things you could not possibly know.
Yes, I was a Witness. I even served at Bethel. I used to go out in service with the then chairman of the Governing Body, Bill Jackson. But then I asked some embarrassing questions of the Governing Body that they could not or would not answer, and we mutually agreed that I should leave. http://smmcroberts.net/religio...
But there's no way for you to know that; you don't know me personally, nor my history. For you to state "This proves you were never a Witness" is to state more than you could possibly know: a trait you probably picked up from the Watchtower; they do it all the time.
Also, you could not possibly know "who wrote each book of the Bible." Yes, I know that the WT claims to know this. But Genuine Bible scholars do not know, so despite what the WT makes up and hands you as "true," they don't know either. DO YOUR RESEARCH!
I WAS "reading consciously" that's how I know that the Bible writers were not always in harmony. One relates that God commanded animal sacrifices, another writes that God never wanted sacrifices. Harmony? No: contradiction. But these are the types of verses they never have you look up in the Kingdom Hall. There are hundreds of such examples--but I'll let you read my book, where I've done much of the research for you.
I'm not gay or bisexual, so I don't "want to have sex with guys." I'm just saying that for those who are, it's okay. They don't need to worry about the ancient Hebrew's tribal god getting upset at them for it.
I am trying to convey that same message to you, but sadly your Watchtower indoctrination is preventing it from sinking in because you've gone into the Witness knee-jerk defense of the WT. I sincerely hope that someday you break free from their shackles around your mind and your life.
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Carlos >smmcroberts • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑With God's help I am never going to stop being a Witness. I am certain of what I believe and As the bible says some seeds just don't grow on the right ground.
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Carlos >smmcroberts • 16 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑The way that Jehovah talks to people is through the bible. So please, think before you write.
" It's also irrelevant what some old men in New York (aka the Governing Body) write about it today -- especially when these are the same guys who say masturbation is a sin, oral sex between husband and wife is a sin, and that a woman who is raped is guilty of fornication if she didn't scream. " This is so wrong. Once again get the information right before you comment. Masturbation is not a sin. Things that you are saying were done in the past and when Jesus came to earth many things were changed. We do not offer animal sacrifices anymore. Would you say that a person that loves to have sex with animals and says that loves let's say a dog and has sex with it, it's doing the right thing?
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smmcroberts >Carlos • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Carlos, I always "think before I write," but thanks for the reminder; it's something that we all need to keep in mind!
I agree with you that it's wrong to think of masturbation as a sin. However, there's a wealth of WT articles about masturbation being a sin. Did you ever read the book "True Peace and Security--From What Source?" I had to study that in my time as a Witness. It had an entire chapter on the sinfulness of masturbation. So did the latter book "Your Youth: Getting the Best Out of It" (chapter 5: "Masturbation and Homosexuality")
Personally, I was threatened twice due to this practice [masturbation: not studying]: Once before I was baptized (with the elder telling me they wouldn't let me be baptized if I didn't cease the practice); and later--after I was baptized--I was nearly disfellowshipped for it (but I apparently changed my ways.)
Since when did the GB change masturbation into NOT being a sin all of a sudden? (And what gives them the right to decide what is and isn't a sin, anyway?) Or do they still say it's a sin, but you were ignorant of this "truth"? Or are you disagreeing with what the GB calls a sexual sin? I hope it's the latter, because then you might as well disagree with them on bi-sexuality as well, and get on with being true to yourself.
The other facts I mentioned in the quote you claim is "so wrong" are there waiting for you in black-and-white in the WT publications. [On the oral sex prohibition between husband and wife please see The Watchtower 12/1/1972 p.734-736.] Are you brave enough to do some research and free yourself from their arbitrary ever-changing rules? For a start, please see: http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
As I said, it doesn't matter a whit to the point I was making whether "things were changed when Jesus came." You must've missed that in my reply--either that or you forgot to follow your excellent advice to "think before you write."
No, I don't think having sex with animals is right, nor with children. I think most sensible people would understand that I was referring to consensual acts between adults of the same species (regardless of gender.)
Carlos, it's time to get real and come [back] into the real world; your life is calling to you.
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Carlos >smmcroberts • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑This is what the book, Young people ask says,
As already noted, those who have fallen into the habit of masturbation are often plagued with guilt. Without a doubt, being “saddened in a godly way” can give you the incentive to overcome the habit. (2 Corinthians 7:11) But excessive guilt can be counterproductive. It can make you feel so discouraged that you just want to give up the fight.—Proverbs 24:10.
So strive to put the matter in perspective. Masturbation is a form of uncleanness. It can make you a ‘slave to various desires and pleasures,’ and it fosters unhealthy attitudes. (Titus 3:3) At the same time, masturbation is not a form of gross sexual immorality, such as fornication. (Jude 7) If you have a problem with masturbation, you need not concludethat you have committed the unforgivable sin. The key is to resist the urge and never to give up your fight!
If you want to get right information, go to www.jw.org This is the Jehovah's Witnesses site and you will find the right information there. You said before that we are the ones that decide what's right or wrong, therefore those people that have sex with animals think they are doing the right things, are they wrong? Would you say is bad? What if you have a child and some random person rape him or rape her, is he doing a bad thing? He might think is right to do it, doesn't him have the right to say it's right? I'm confused now.
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smmcroberts >Carlos • 15 days ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Carlos, How nice that the GB decided that masturbation is "not the UNFORGIVABLE sin!" -- But who made them God? Oh, the Jehovah's Witnesses, that's right.
How sad to be a slave to an organization that tells you what to do and how to live your life, and that you can't be yourself because they think their God doesn't like it. It's more than sad: it can be fatal, as when they forbade vaccinations and organ transplants as being "against God's law." Just as they do now with blood, platelets, and bisexuality. They've always been wrong in the past. So, don't you think it's likely--given their track record--that they're wrong now?
People who commit rape are obviously ignoring their sense of empathy--just like the Israelites who ran their swords through babies and pregnant women's bellies--or like Witnesses parents who shun their disfellowshipped children, or stand by and watch their child bleed to death before their eyes.
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Edward Fields • a month ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑We call it "the truth". i will never step foot in the kingdom hall again. I would rather live in my truth as a homosexual man and be true to myself. Then to live a double life to please others and what they expect of me, and live a lie. I didn't wake up one day and say " i guess i will try being gay today". I didn't choose to be homosexual..
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David >Edward Fields • a month ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Exactly! I struggled for years, but in the end I didn't choose this. Why am I being punished for something that wasn't my choice to begin with! They "love" but what they mean is "love, if you follow these rules, act this way, and don't challenge one word we say"
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Brian • 3 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Andrew, this is all wrong. your text are used wrong, i doubt you even read the bible once.
First) God Doesnt hate gays. get that straight. like you said, he hates the act(homosexuality) i am a Jehovas Witness. gay aswell and im barely 16 even now i have come to understand both sides. God side, and what we would like to choose.
I too struggle have we not all? Pain and sadness is relevant to everyone. Do not Preech hate to these people. most of whom are ex-Jw's. If anything, you should use the bible correctly. No one goes to hell, no one, is born gay BECAUSE OF GOD So dont make a claim like it is a fact. Your an arrogant person just because life isnt going your way dont find any sort of false leak to make a Religon wrong. esspecially ours. If you would like to disscuss this u should do it by email.
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smmcroberts >Brian • 3 months ago • 1 △0 ▽− + ⚑Brian,
I'm somewhat confused by your comment. You said [evidently referring to Andrew's blog] that it's "all wrong" -- but neglected to show anything wrong.
First: Andrew never said "God hates gays." So why do you bring this up as if it's one of the things "wrong" with his blog?
You said "Do not preach hate." Where in this blog did Andrew "preach hate?" He is not preaching hate; he is clearly advocating acceptance.
You said "your text are used wrong" and admonished Andrew to "use the bible correctly." Andrew merely quoted the Bible and showed how the Watchtower applies it. I have seen them apply it exactly that way. If it is "wrong" then blame the Watchtower.
You said "no one goes to hell." How is this relevant in a blog that never once mentioned the subject of hell?
You said "no one is born gay because of God so don't make a clam like it is a fact." Um, excuse me, Brian but you just made a claim as if it were a fact in a sentence in which you warn Andrew not to do that very thing! Can you say "double-standard?"
Andrew is an atheist and so is not blaming God for making you gay. You are just full of straw-man arguments! If you, on the other hand, DO believe in God, then I don't see how you could say that God had nothing to do with your being gay. But don't project your belief onto Andrew.
You said: "you are an arrogant person just because your life isn't going your way don't find any sort of false leak to make a religion wrong. Especially ours." So, you know Andrew personally, then? No? Then you don't know if he's arrogant or if his life is peachy keen at the moment or in the crapper. You're writing what you can't possibly know as if it's the truth: just like the Watchtower does! You do the same thing when you claim to know what God hates and what he doesn't.
When their religion is held up to honest criticism, Witnesses tend to lash out with these ridiculous personal attacks which just make them look stupid. We've seen it time and again on JWB. That's why the Watchtower tells you not to leave your comments on our sites: you do more harm to your religion with your attitude than we ever could. We don't need any "false leaks" we just need to quote exactly what the Watchtower says, and then let Witnesses speak for themselves in comments such as yours. That's enough to keep any sensible person from succumbing to your cult.
Finally, why do you say: "especially ours?" Shouldn't we apply the SAME truth tests to ALL religions alike? Wouldn't it be hypocrisy to try to exclude one's own religion from examination? Of course it would. But none of what you said surprises me: it's typical of a Jehovah's Witness. I was the same way before I learned how to think:http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
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Jill • 5 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑My son is 17 and we found out that he was gay when he was 16. He didnt tell us, we overheard him talking about it. We always wondered if he was gay but as he also has Aspergers' Syndrome(autistic spectrum disorder-ASD) we thought his feminine behaviour was attributable to that.
My husband and I are both baptised JWs. We have 4 children and have raised them as JWs. Our older 2 (son 25 and daughter 23) are married and both pioneer and son is ministerial servant. Our younger 2 (14 and 17) both have ASD and my youngest and eldest have type 1 diabetes. Neither of my younger boys are baptised JWs nor do they attend the meetings. I became a JW aged 20 and I'm now 50, married to a JW for 25 years.
When j*** said he was gay I stopped going to the meetings because I couldn't parent him whilst thinking that he was 'wicked'. Long story short- whilst my husband still goes to meetings I do not. My eldest ( mini servant) has just given his first full public talk so I went to listen to it to support him. The families went out for a meal afterwards to celebrate. We were not invited! My pioneering daughter married a JW who has declared that he hates my younger sons. He is a fool and doesn't understand that we have to parent them differently as they have special ASD needs. I have persuaded my husband to allow my sons bf to stay overnight in our home ( in seperate beds) but he's not comfortable with it. Initially our son and his bf had to stay in hotels overnight as his bf lives 100 miles away and doesnt drive. It was costing them £100 to see each other each weekend. Our 2 older children treat us like we are marked as bad associates. It stinks! Their behaviour towards us has done more damage than the news that j*** is gay. I won't go bk to being a JW whilst my son needs my support and he will probably need that all of his life. The whole disfellowshipping thing is cruel and I am totally opposed to it Jehovah wants us to serve him willingly not because we are afraid of being df'd. I have lost my faith and have invested 30 years into something that was a blessing but has now become a curse. I have lost my friends, my family and all I'm guilty of is supporting my autistic gay son. I'm not df'd but I may as well be. It is very sad
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Bryan • 5 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I really like the comments of all of you... I'm from CR and I think if you are JW as me is so difficult to handle if you are gay
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cOURT • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑BTW...im not here to denounce jehovahs kingdom...thats not my aim. I believe in GOD i just believe that no one has the right understanding of how we are supposed to be living and the requirements. I think the world JW included have it wrong cuz it just doesnt make sense.
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Martha • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Andrew, thank you for such a wonderful site which I hope will help many gay Jehovahs Witnesses. I think is is so very sad, this harsh struggle they must go through. I wish you could send this to every gay Jehovahs Witness as you explain things so brilliantly. I do not understand the religion but have realised how awful it is for gay people having been bought up as a JW. It seems incredible that religion can say it is all about peace and love and then persecutes people for something they cannot choose. I wish you could reach out to all those poor people praying and living a lie, trying not to be gay to stay a JW.
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Peagreen • 8 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Ps sorry about all the typos - typed on my iPad without my glasses!
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Peagreen • 8 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Andrew, what a great outlook you have. I am a long ago ex-catholic, I certainly don't believe in god, the bible or any other supernatural deity. I stumbled upon your blog as I wanted a bit more information about Jw's as theya re always calling round and bugging me. What baffles me is why religious people as so concerned with other peoples sexual habits, surely ones sexual orientation is ones own business? What goes on between two consenting adults is really nothing to do with anyone else so what are so many other people concerned about it? I see nof acceptance and/or tolerance within religion which for me misses the point. My husband commited suicide many years ago and the reaction from the church and my parents was unbelievable - apparently is poor tortured soul was destined to eiher rot in hell or suffer purgatory, great comfort to a widow! For me organised religion is one of the worst things to happen to mankind, it makes otherwise good people behave very badly and I find that very, very sad. Anyone of any sexual orientation should be allowed to live the life they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, you should be allowed to be gay and proud and have a happy life
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Wonderer • 8 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Hi, I have question. A (now, sadly, former) friend of mine was born into a JW-family from which she was promptly cast out when she turned out to be gay. Now, after a couple of years she has decided to return to the church claiming that she 'has made some bad decisions' and that she 'has come to realize that she doesn't always know what's good for her'. I am extremely worried about her, even more so because she has cut herself off from all her friends, saying that becoming a JW again means that we cannot stay her friends. I don't know what to do and I was wondering if you could explain to me what her life will be like and what she will have to do in order to be accepted back into the church.
Thanks so much
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Andres Torres >Wonderer • 2 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑This happens often. People leave JWs because they want freedom to live as they please, but while they are out they never convince themselves that what they were taught was wrong. So, they go on feeling guilty about leaving until they've had enough and go crawling back.
Truth is your friend has done this to herself by failing to think critically about what she was taught. The JWs will treat her fine and accept her as one of their own, as long as she suppresses her sexuality. If she gives in to it she'll be shown the door again and undoubtedly will contact you for support.
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Dave • 9 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Just an update.
My lease was ending and I decided to move in with my bf. I was trying to do this vet smoothly but we all know how nosey and question ridden jw mothers are.
So I finally came out to my mother and told her my plans. Her initial reaction was "youre my son, I'm you're mother, I love you and nothing will change that"
Two days later I get a long email loaded with articles and bible verses about homosexuality.
Two days after that I get a long email written from her. "You're going to kill your grandmother/ don't do this, you're signing your death slip/ all we've done for you and this is how you repay us/ you're going to hurt the family so much/"ext.
I read this email, all I read is "guilt trip/ guilt trip/ guilt trip". Never once did she ask how my struggle has been, or how hiding this for 30+ years has been for me. It's only about what makes it easy for her and my father and the rest of the family.
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David • 9 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Hey;
This morning 2 J-W's people came to my door and I asked them a simple question
"What happens to Homosexual people in your congregation?" (I happen to be one, They happened to be apart of a religion, I was curious.)
Well they didn't answer, handed me some literature, then left.
I read the literature but it... Didn't answer Much. Anyway shortly after reading it I decided to turn to Google to find an answer and came across this article, and just wanted to thank you for writing it.
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Andrew >David • 9 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Glad you liked it David, and welcome to JWB.
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Peter • 11 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Ok I jumped on this page as was curious what people's opinions are on this subject.
I think Jehovas Witnesses in the US are very different from them in Europe. I am gay and grew up in a very strict household. My father once told me, if I ever came out to him he would kick me out of the house and never speak to me again.
That being said here a little of my story:
I was raised believing being gay was a sin, as also JWs in Europe preach the same thing. And yes I can see there are a lot of people that are being homophobic as they do not understand people that are gay. But that can be said for every religion not only JWs. I say religion as I personally don't believe it's a cult. When I turned 21 I came to the US for a summer and saw here in South Florida that being gay was as normal as anything else and that helped me a lot in building my self esteem. So when I returned to Europe I confronted the Elders and told them I wanted to leave as I was gay. They let me go no problems whatsoever, of course they tried talking to me, but they didn;t make a big deal out of it like some people write on here.
My friends still talk to me till this day. JWs in Europe cannot "Forbid" you to have contact to people that leave the congegration. The Watchtower society marily states its better for people in the religion not to have contact to people that leave so they would not follow them out ot the religion. But they cannot legally "Forbid" you contact. That is left with every persons own decision. So why people here say that you are not allowed to talk to them is kinda twisted. Maybe here in the US, but in Europe it is still your own decision in the end. And you don't get kicked out if you decide to keep talking to people that leave.
I was never treated bad by any JWs. I just left because their believes do not match with mine. But that goes for every religion out there who's followers try to live by the Bible's rules. The bible does not support a gay lifestyle, so that means that religion is not for me, that's all, no need for me to judge them.
Actually my friend told me that in one of the last speaches in the congegration members stated that homosexuality is not a choice but you are born that way. Since the bible does not support such a lifestyle gay people are being forced to fight a big fight everyday to not live out their sexuality. And gay people that choose not to act on their sexuality are actually being highly respected in that congegration as people understand they have a huge fight everyday.
So all in all I am gay and I was raised as a JW, left the congegration when I was 21, but never had any negative experiences like many on here. So for me I feel bad for you that the members in your congegrations are so narrow minded. But you cannot judge the religion for it. Every religion has its good and bad members. People that are being radical are never good no matter what religion they belong to. True JWs hate the sin, but they do not hate the person. I can personally say that as I have never been treated with hate by any JW.
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David >Peter • 11 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑My question to Peter would be, were you ever baptized?
If so, when you came to South Florida did you engage in anything that would have warranted disfellowshipping? If so, did you tell the elders that as you left?
One of the issues I have with the religion, if you are not baptized you can walk away, do what you choose and people can still have contact with you. However if you are disfellowshipped, people aren't allowed and can and will be disciplined for doing so.
If someone isn't baptized, they are free to leave and still associate. (It's frowned upon but not liable for discipline)
I'm thinking the US and Europe are similar, you may not have had the exact same circumstances others on here have had, and therefore had a different outcome.
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cOURT >David • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑thats true! I live with my dis fellowshiped auntand we live directly across the street from my grandparent who are active JW's, My grandmother is a pioneer and my grandad is a ministerial servant. My aunt was a recovering alcoholic and was baptized but fell back into her addiction after her husband (who was not a JW) passed away..and I am her gay nephew. My grandparents do not accept homosexuality but I can still go over and check on them and have meals with them etc...whereas my aunt cannot. I think we feel a bond tho because neither one of us were good enough for the organization.
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Andres Torres >cOURT • 2 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Neither of you were "good enough"? Please don't think that way about yourself.
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Andrew >Peter • 11 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Hi Peter,
Thanks for your comment. I live in Europe, and always have. I'll be frank with you - I don't believe you. That, or you had a completely unique experience. You are mistaken that JWs in Europe are so different from the US counterparts.
You've also missed the point that you shouldn't have to suppress your sexual preference just because JWs or the bible says you should.
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Peter >Andrew • 11 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Of course you shouldn't suppress your sexual preference. But you also cannot expect to be part of a religion that does not support that. That's why I left. And I live now in the US and see a lot of people here being more radical as in Europe. I have no clue where in Europe you live. I come originally from Germany actually a little town and like I stated never had any issues. Even the day I told my mom that I was gay, she cried. But she then told me she wasn't crying of the fact that I was gay, of course she wasn't happy about it. But she cried because she knew how she raised me (morals and values) and she also has seen that most of gay men were very promiscuous out there and she was crying because she kinda knew that I was going to get hurt alot which I did honestly as I might not be part of the religion anymore, but a lot of values still stayed with me.
Please don't take my story as ignorance to all the negative stories on here. I actually feel bad that so many had to go through so much hardship. It sadeness me. I just wanted to share that not all JW are like the ones that were discribed in the other stories. My experience might be unique but I do not believe so as I believe there are good and bad people out there.
The only hardship with me being gay I ever had was in highschool with other students, but never with JWs.
At the end of it all I believe in God, but I believe God is "Love" and love does not hate, and like it was stated before we were all born this way and since we all have been created in the image of the creator I do not believe that he judges us for being gay, that is a man made thing. Lets also never forget that the bible might have been inspired by God, but still was written by mortal heterosexual men with their own believes.
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Les • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑My five cents worth is this: You could be a registered sex offender and still be a serving, baptized Jw. How do you do field service in such a capacity?
Something does not add up.
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Matt >Les • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑They can't even carry the microphone in the congregation, nor pray. It's taken very seriously
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Andrew >Matt • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Oh yeah, forget prison! Not being able to carry a microphone is taking it really seriously! What a deterrent!
Do you even realise how silly you sound?
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Matt >Les • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I'm not sure about going door to door as a sex offender that's a Jehovah's Witness but I do know that a sex offender can not have ANY position of authority ever in the congregation, if it is known
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cOURT >Matt • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Matt, one of the things that really ate at me growing up in the congregation was the fact that my reputation as a gay person would indeed change the way I was allowed to serve within the congregation. Now,I say reputation and let me be clear that I never CAME OUT...even to this day I have never officially did that and I didn't have any form of any relationship until I was 19 and pretty much not going to the meetings on a regular basis but I live in a very small rural southern town (Alabama). Word gets around fast. I was always trying to hide the fact that I was gay..ALWAYS. I took extreme measures to try and ensure no one would learn my terrible secret but it never really worked for me (just really made me feel like a fool, as if every one could tell and i felt like I mustve looked ridiculous lying) So,,,I was still teased at school,called names like fag and queer although I was a virgin in all aspects. I didnt have any friends. I didnt want anyone to know who I was. I didnt want any attention. And here I am supposed to be spreading the good news to my peers but because (despite my exhausting efforts to hide it) they knew I was gay I felt really uncomfortable witnessing to them. I was always taught not to do anything that would bring reproach on God or the organization and I felt like by me giving witness to anyone it would send the message that JW's allow gays to be ministers. How do you get bullied, teased and tormented at school and then show up at their doors with your family? I heard a brother give a talk once and say that someone with such a rep shouldn't be representing the org. as it would cause others to stumble or make outsiders feel as tho it was ok and it wasnt.
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cOURT >cOURT • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I felt like seperating myself from the organization that I was doing them a favor. A very low feeling...I had a very hard time growing up this way. Happiness in my youth was all but nonexistent. I didnt know what else to do.
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Andrew >Matt • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Matt, a person is not considered a sex offender by Jehovah's Witnesses unless there were TWO witnesses to the crime. Also, people who sinned a long time ago, say ten or more years, can be put into positions of authority again. Go look up the JW policies.
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Alex • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑SOME people do in fact choose to be gay, and I've noticed huge differences between men who either chose it, are forced into it (prison/abuse), and were born with it.
The men who were forced into it, do so because if they were abused as children, and especially if they were in their teens; question their sexuality, and masculinity, as they become older- and often don't get the right help, because they are too ashamed to speak out. So they either re-enact their abuse by allowing other men to use them for sex, or they sadly molest children themselves, which makes them feel as if they have some sort of control in their life. Some child molesters of course do it, because they are attracted to the innocence of the child, which is very perverted, and I thought it was pathetic that an Awake magazine I believe in 1995, compared homosexuals, to child molesters.
Some men who become accustomed to it, do so in situations where there are no women, and either they use a man for sex, or are used themselves. This is usually in the prison environment, and these men continue this out of prison as well. It can also happen within the military. In my research I spoke with a Russian man, who remembers being raped, constantly, along with other new recruits, by higher ups. They'd have photos taken, and or video taped, constantly being threatened it would be shown to their families.
The men who choose it, always start out with having a curiosity- which is a normal feeling some guys may have. Some never act on it, and never think of it again. Some men will act on it, and learn it is not for them, so they never do nor think of it again. Some will act on it and enjoy it, but still enjoy sex with women- which would classify them as "bisexual". Some act on it, and enjoy it. Its the act of doing something taboo, rebellious, and forbidden they enjoy- along with the physical pleasure, and identify themselves as gay- and begin emulating what they believe to be gay behavior, or lifestyle... A lot of these guys will get into some extremely perverse things. There is also a lot of racism, ageism, disposable attitudes towards many of the men they bed, lies, drugs, promiscuity higher than that of heterosexual promiscuity- which is why the gay community has a higher rate of those with STDs/AIDS.
There's a predatory behavior among these guys, who also consider it a badge of honor to "seduce a heterosexual male". Highly superficial, and worshiping men deemed as "most desirable", and to some pretty unhealthy ends. Very materialistic, unfaithfulness, confusing love with lust, hate, vindictiveness, callousness- which is also considered to be "cool", feminizing of males, emulating male/female dynamic, depression when one is no longer seen as "desirable", and disappointment, when one doesn't find or get something, that looks like what they saw in a pornography.
Some of these men of this group, did things around. I've talked with many who no longer wanted to live this lifestyle, talked a lot about finding god, and wanting to live a clean life. Both the men who choose it, and are forced into it, remind me of what is condemned in the bible, and it can be corrected, if that person first wants to change, and then is given the proper help and support, because what they're doing has nothing to do with love, and companionship- which is what I see with guys who are born with it. For them its all about sex and the lifestyle.
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Alex • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Everyone gets it wrong.. Because a lot of people don't always understand what some of the words in the bible mean, along with the culture of the ancient world.
My best friend who was a JW, faced some harsh ridicule by his own family. He was told he "had a wicked spirit", or "Satan". He had all the scriptures that are believed to condemn him for what he feels, thrown in his face... However what is in those scriptures was not what he was feeling. He was shunned, brought before the elders who gave him the typical rubbish talk about changing. They wouldn't even let him express what's going on in his own heart, and couldn't answer any of his questions. This treatment of my friend, made me no longer want to call myself a JW. I didn't stop having faith, like becoming all atheist, nor did my friend; we just knew these guys, like in other denominations were wrong. It also made me do some serious research on homosexuality, and especially how it was viewed in the ancient world- and we both learned some very interesting things.
In all in the bible that condemns sexual acts between men, and how it was talked about... Didn't mirror my friend, nor did it mirror all of the men we've met in our research, who were just like him. The condemnation did however mirror everything about mainstream gay culture- which is something men like my friend, detest, and keep away from; because they find it degrading, disgusting, depressing, and disrespectful.
The most popular and heaviest one of all thrown at them is the "Man shall not lie with man as he would womankind". "To lie with", is an archaic (primitive) word for intercourse (keyword inter). Intercourse is when one person (male), places their genitals inside of another person, (naturally female) which would also be penetrative sex. Going to use the Greeks since its most popular, but it was interesting to learn, other cultures felt the same way about male/male relationships- and even before they knew the Hebrew god.
The Athenians (not ALL of them), practiced pederasty- in which an older male 30+, would take a boy, and although help him grow sharing wisdom, also used him for sex- "until the boy began to grow hair on his face". Which means these boys, had to be really young, and when they began to become men, they were no longer seen as "desirable". The Spartans did not like this, feeling it "feminized" young boys, robbing them of their manhood/masculinity; and they were right. These boys who have now become men, were not their own men- and had become used to being kept by other men. They'd end up becoming slaves, or temple prostitutes- and continue being kept and used by men- and were NOT seen or thought of as men. The Spartans often called Athenians "boy lovers" because of this.
The Spartan form of pederasty, was a boy who was around age 15-18, with another male who was 19-30; being taken under the wing of the man, to learn to be a man. This did not happen with every male (even in Athens), this was something done to males who had no fathers or older brothers- and quite often he was taught how to fight, but also learn the rules of society, to which if he behaved in ill manner, the man he was under- would be the one who'd face the trouble.
The intent was not for sex, though if the boy was in fact homosexual, (there was no word for such a thing in the old world), and admired the man a lot- that would probably happen as their bond grew. However it was the boy who chose the elder male, not the elder male choosing the boy. If the elder male was already mentoring a younger male, or in fact was in a romantic relationship with another male- he would refuse the boy, as it would not be seen as proper to accept him, in any way.
Anal sex with men, was not seen as ideal. It did happen of course, however it was considered illegal in many cases, and sometimes even punished- it wasn't as accepted as people today think. Socrates, who had penetrated many boys, was punished for "corrupting the minds of male youth". Anal sex was also shown in anything depicting pornography, which again was no depiction of ideal male love/relationship.
Two men who truly loved each other, respected each other's masculinity, manhood, warrior-hood/brotherhood (if they were soldiers/warriors/fighters), and viewed each other as equals- would never want the other male, or themselves to take on the role of a female, slave, or defeated enemy to be further humiliated (some used penetration to humiliate defeated enemies, Vikings were big on this). Such a thing was seen as unequal, disrespectful, dirty, degrading, unnatural, not an act of love (to do that to another man). Fidelity/loyalty were also big, so when two men were in fact involved- they did not share themselves with other men, you remained with that one man until death.
Regardless of one's sexuality, and especially if you were of importance- it was expected you take a wife, and produce children, to carry on your line, care for you in old age, and produce a citizen for the state (not everyone did though), and of course its much different in today's world. So, were these guy's intimate with each other? Yes they were, its not normal for a man to reject and suppress those feelings, the sex they had was non penetrative.
Interestingly, the men I met who are like my friend- follow the ideal way as it was seen in the ancient world. However they face a lot of ridicule from gay men, who follow the mainstream gay lifestyle/practices.
In the end, its what is in the heart that matters; as only god knows the true heart of someone. The ridicule, rejection, shunning, further making these guys feel unwanted, doomed, alone, and hated- does not remind me of anything Jehovah or Christ would be about- and certainly not someone would 'choose". That's one of the things that makes these guys very angry, when they are told they chose to be gay. Yet at the same time these men, refuse to run about being promiscuous. So yeah JW can be just as ridiculous as those in other denominations.
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Steve >Alex • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Alex, you stated: "Socrates, who had penetrated many boys, was punished for 'corrupting the minds of male youth'."
I would like to know the source of your information on this. I've read everything written about Socrates and have never heard him accused of having "penetrated many boys." In fact, in one dialogue he is criticized for failing to engage in homosexuality.
The charge of having "corrupted the youth" was based on his teaching them to use their minds and take a skeptical approach to the existence of the gods. It had nothing to do with pederasty (which would not have been seen as corrupting in ancient Greek culture.)
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Dave • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑This article was amazingly written, and at the age of 30 it's so comforting to realize and learn of those that understand the struggle of being gay and a jw.
I have had so many positive and negative experiences growing up a JW. I spent my life mostly trying to understand why was I born this way and yet taught that what I felt was wrong. I thought I could resist my whole life and got baptized at 17. Way to young as I think back.
I've dealt with soo much the past 3 years in the organization. I finally moved out of my parents house and as I switched halls stopped attending cold turkey. I've now been dating a man I'm in love with for 10 months. I am now thinking of how Im going to tell my parents, as I have a large family that is all jws.
It's just so comforting to read experiences of others. I thought I was alone for so long.
D
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Andrew >Dave • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Hi Dave,
Glad you liked my article. You aren't alone at all, no! Be sure to join the JWB community on Facebook if you haven't already done so. And feel free to email us (andrew AT jehovahswitnessblog.com) if you need to chat, get advice or support.That's one reason we're here and created this site in the first place.
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Pete Frances • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Hey Andrew :)
Thanks for your comment. I agree with what you say. That is why I left, because I did want to find a partner and be happy. Since I can remember I have always wanted to get married at some point and have a family, hence I stepped out at the age of 18. I cannot say I have been always happy, as you know the gay scene can be somewhat overwhelming as not everyone out there is out for a partner but more for a partner for a moment ;)
But I understand where you are coming from. But don't hold it against the people. This is the believe of the JW. And it's not that someone in the congegration tells them, this is what we believe and we as the organization want you to live that way. JW are one of the few religions that live their lives strictly after what the bible says. Unlike many other religions who say they do but in fact their members still do whatever they want. Hence JW also do not tolerate people that have intercourse before marriage, as this also is a no go in the bible. Other religions just judge homosexuals but forget that they bible has a lot of rules for heterosexuals as well that they do not follow. But they overlook that and just make propaganda against gay people.
JW make it easy. They only say to be a JW you have to live your life after what the bible says. And since the bible does not support gay relationships, they do not tolerate someone being a part of the congegration and willingly braking the rules of the bible. They also part themselves of people that commit adultry, that are criminal, etc.. And it's not like they hunt you down to be a part of them. The elders tell you, if you want to live your life the way you want it step out and leave, it's up to you.
So I understand you do not tolerate a religion that lives their lives strictly after what the bible says, but don't judge them. The judgement would have to go against the men that wrote the bible. JW just believe that the bible is their complete guide to life. You and I do not agree with everything the bible says as we do believe that God still loves us no matter how we are born as were creating in his view. And we do believe that God is love and he judges people not for their sexual orientation but by how they live their lives. God sees the good in all of us.
I made the choice to not live by the rules of the bible. I do believe in God and I believe that he loves me no matter what. And if I cannot live out my lifestyle and be part of a religion then I choose not to be part of them.
But I still respect my friends for making their choice. And I hate other straight folks that judge them as they do not understand that they have a way bigger fight everyday than them. They do not only have to fight Satan on a daily basis like everyone else, but they also have to fight their own temptations and for that they should be respected.
You and I might think that they are depriving themselves from being happy with another partner. But their choice was to be happy only with God and themselves. That is their choice and we shouldn't judge them for that. We might disagree with them. But not judge. They are all still talking to me. I think the point that some people make that the congegration turns their back on people that leave is one thing.
The congegration cannot tell you whom you can have contact to and whom you can't. That is your own choice. They might tell you that its not good to be in contact with someone that does not live by the same rules as they do but they have no legal right you keep you from talking to that person.
Like many other religions there are always people that are fanatics and people that are more relaxed. I am originally from Germany and in Germany its way less strict than in some cases here in the US. I still have contact to all my friends on a daily basis.
That's why I always say you cannot judge a whole religion for actions individuals take. I have nothing but good experiences with them. And even though I choose to live my life differently, I still respect them a great deal.
Pete
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Andrew >Pete Frances • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑@Pete - I think you may have missed one of my points in my last comment - whether the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin or not, I can't understand why anyone would want to even worship a god who commanded such. Take out JWs for the moment - it's immoral for god to even say that homosexuality is a sin when people are born without a choice as to their sexuality. It's as simple as that. A god like that is cruel and malevolent and doesn't deserve worship.
As for the fact that JWs follow the bible, there are two main issues I take with that line of discussion. First off, so what if something is in the bible - it doesn't make it right. Even Jesus in the bible condoned slavery, but that doesn't make it right. I doubt you think slavery is a good thing either. There are many examples of principles or rules in the bible that are immoral and plain wrong. Secondly, the JWs do not follow what the bible says - take for example that the bible says that no one can know the day that the great tribulation will come, and that those saying they know are false prophets whom god hates. Jehovah's Witnesses have made dozens of predictions about this throughout their history. 1914, 1975, to name just two. Even now they say that the last days will end before the 'generation' has passed away. All predictions that go against bible teaching. There are DOZENS of other examples of JWs not following certain things in the bible, or twisting them to their liking.
I can judge a whole religion when it is the teachings of that religion that directly influence the behaviour of it's followers. No individual Jehovah's Witness would let their child die, for example, instead of give them blood, unless DIRECTLY taught by the religion's leaders. For a good person to do something bad, that takes religion.
Finally, I just want to clarify that I do not believe in god. Until someone provides evidence for the existence of god, I will not believe he exists, in the same way you will probably not believe in fairies until someone presents evidence for that.
Andrew
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Pete Frances • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Ok I gotta jump in on what Tom and others stated.
I was raised in a JW family. Unlike others I had only good experiences with them. Of course you see here and there a person that has a huge problem with a gay person. But that is everywhere. On the streets, everywhere you have people that are ok with it and others who aren't.
I just have to make a comment to the statements that are being made. That you cannot be homosexual and be a JW. That is absolutely wrong. That statement needs to be corrected.
You can be a practicing JW and be gay. Heterosexual people just need to get over it and accept that you are being born gay and not turn gay at a certain age. That is just ignorance. Hence you cannot turn heterosexual to be a JW.
As a JW you cannot "live" your life in a gay sense. Meaning you cannot have a boyfriend, live in a relationship and not because the congegration doesn't allow that but because if you want to live your life according to the believes of JW you cannot live a gay life. But that doesn't mean you cannot be a homosexual and be a practicing JW. You can be homosexual just cannot live a gay lifestyle.
That in the end is each individual person's own choice. I made my choice that I did not want to be single so I left. But I have lots of friends that decided to stay single and rather practice their believes, yet they are gay.
So just to correct the statement.
Cheers,
Pete
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cOURT >Pete Frances • 7 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑WHERE ARE THESE CONGREGATIONS THAT ARE SO FULL OF LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE. THAT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE GAYS IN THEIR CONGREGATIONS?? SURELY NOT HERE IN ALABAMA. SURELY NOT.
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Jehovah's Witness Blog » JW Emails » Email from a Gay Jehovah’s Witness
Email from a Gay Jehovah’s Witness
Submitted by Teeny on April 27, 2012 - 5:00 am 13 Comments I've used the Liar Liar poster image for the Homosexuality and Jehovah's Witnesses article as some Jehovah's Witnesses have lied in their emailsThe article Ben wrote in March, Gay Jehovah’s Witness Victims, which discussed homosexuality and Jehovah’s Witnesses, has helped a couple of active Jehovah’s Witnesses to the point where they have stopped going to the meetings and have decided to leave the Organisation. This pleases us greatly guys, for it was our intention to try and open the eyes of as many active Jehovah’s Witnesses as possible.
We didn’t expect a barrage of emails from Jehovah’s Witnesses claiming to either be gay, or “gay cured”. I won’t list all the emails in this article as a lot of them are utter trash. If there’s supposed so be so much love in the Jehovah’s Witness faith, I have trouble seeing it nowadays. If we’re not being called the “devil’s play thing”, we’re being told that many hope to have front-row seats to watch the birds peck our eyes out. Hitchcock wasn’t a Jehovah’s Witness, was he?
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I decided to share with you the most decipherable and challenging email that was sent to me a couple of weeks ago by someone called Christopher Johns. This is what he wrote:
I love how people who are against Jehovah’s Witnesses, calling them a cult, don’t know what they are talking about. I am a Jehovah’s Witness who is also gay. I’ve been treated as a brother by these loving people.
You speak of how we are suppressed by the Watchtower but in the real world, men have called me fag, gay, queer and many things . I’ve been beaten up harassed and the like.
Guys in my congregation actually hug me without getting creeped out. They ask me to hang out. We are not suppressed. We go by God’s word, not what the Watchtower says.
I love reading anti-witness sites. They’re all wrong. Even ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses are those who don’t want to live by bible standards. Homosexuality is a sin and so is incest. A brother and sister could be in love but no one accepts that because it’s not natural. But neither is two men. It’s imperfection from the fall of Adam and eve.
I forwarded Christopher’s email onto JWB contributor and close friend, Lacy. If you’re an avid JWB reader, you’ll have read Lacy’s story about her struggles with the Jehovah’s Witnesses when coming out. Here’s what Lacy had to say about the above email:
I think he [Christopher Johns] is full of it just from the comment he made about ‘we go by what the Bible says, not by what the Watchtower says’. Every single Jehovah’s Witness knows you go by what the Watchtower says first and foremost because everything printed in the Watchtower magazine comes directly from God via his holy spirit, which is directed at the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are going to get instructions from an elder or hear a talk, it all comes from quotes from the publications with support from scriptures, not the other way around.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses might allow a celibate gay, but only if it is someone who does not ever discuss his/her inclinations. That would be possibly corrupting the congregation. If a person was an active, faithful Jehovah’s Witness and still had homosexual attractions, it would mean that either Satan still had hold of that person or that people are just born that way. That means gay Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot exist even if they are celibate.
The one scripture that the elders did open their Bibles for in my so-called hearing was the one Jesus spoke of when he said that even the thought of sleeping with someone was considered as adultery by God. The point the elders were making was that you just had to think inappropriate thoughts for it to be a sin.
The situation for Christopher may be as he says, but that is only because the Jehovah’s Witness around him are not following Organizational direction. The last thing that would make me question the validity of the email is that he seems to be strongly of the belief that homosexuality is unnatural and a gross sin. There are some gay people who feel this way. They are the ones who stay in the closet or commit suicide. People who feel that strongly opposed to it are not out of the closet and barely even admit it to themselves, let alone an entire congregation. None of what he says adds up.
So then, we’ve heard Christopher’s version of being a gay Jehovah’s Witness, and Lacy’s overview. I want you to decide if you think Christopher is telling the truth. After all, he belongs to a group that professes to have “The Truth™.”
Please share your comments below and also pop on over to the JWB Facebook Page. We want to get that community buzzing too!
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joshua • 6 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑i would like to make a comment about my treatment as a gay person in the jehovah witness faith (of which i was disfellowshipped december 2012). i hid my sexuality from the ages of 11 to 17. from the age of 17, it became slowly known to my congregation that i was gay, or that i may have homosexual tendencies. a few of my close friends who were jehovahs witnesses knew i was gay, i could confide in them, and we joked about it. that was one side of it. the other side hurt me deeply. after my second judicial hearing (again because of homosexual conduct) i heard a report that a certain young brother, the same age as myself, had been warned to either not asscoiate with me, or at least severly limit association with me. i didnt take too much notice of this at the time, but then other young guys had also been approached and told by the elders not to have many dealings with me. it hurt because i was trying to build a name for myself, a good name, especially since i had recently ruined my name by having been reproved for the 2nd time. how could i build up a good name and reputation again, including building up social ties, when the elders of my congregation were going around telling other members that i could be a possible threat to them, making me out as some sexual devient and corrupting others? i was ashamed enough of slipping up again, but to know that many in the congreagtion was being warned about me and that then led to gossiping throughout the whole congregation, and of course the elders breaking their promise to keep my judicial matter a secret and hidden away, i just couldnt look at anyone in the kingdom hall again after that. however, back some years, when i was 17, and too had been warned by 2 different elders at 2 different times about another brother who had recently engaged in homosexual activity and that i too should stay away from him. i also heard of another report of a young brother in my former congregation who was suspected of being gay, and other youngsters being warned away from him. when you are gay and a jehovahs witnesses, you dont make it known you are gay. ive known many gay jw's, but most of them hide it and keep it secret, and of course they lead good lives in the organization (what i mean here is that they get no trouble from it as no-one knows). however, if you are known as a gay person, or suspected of being a gay person, and definetly, if you have a known history of homosexual conduct before becoming a witness or whilst being a witness, then life is made very difficult for you and the elders dont tolerate you as much. my presiding overseer at the time, would hardly talking to me again after my first judicial. but the fact of the matter is, i have personally experienced life as a secret gay jehovahs witnesses - and it was fine - as long as it was hidden - but when known as a gay jehovahs witnesses, then the story is different. its hard. knowing that elders are warning people away from you, people you want to be friends with, it tears you apart. it did for me. i dreaded going into that kingdom hall in the end. i didnt want to speak with anyone or even look at anyone. and what right did the elders think they had over my perosnal information that they should hand it around so freely to others? in the end i became isolated. for those out there who say being a jehovahs witness and gay is fine and no problem, well, ive been there and ive experienced first hand. 2 other people from the same congregation as me also had exactly the same happen as well. my heart goes out to all gay jehovahs witnesses who are still in this religion. i know the pain they are going through. i know how difficult their lives are with trying to hide who they are and combat their feelings. i really hope that many of these will wake up from watchtower bondage and finally live their lives in the way they deserve, a happy fulfilled life, knowing the joy that comes from loving someone intimately and no longer having to live a lie. thanks for reading.
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Rebecca Rohr • 8 months ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I just came across this interesting article. I want to thank Christopher Johns wherever he is for writing that encouraging e-mail. I'm a gay ex-jw and I didn't and don't have the strength to do what he does. Most people don't. Whether you believe it's right or wrong, he undeniably is a brave man to live and struggle like that every day indefinitely. Tysm
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Max • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑The Watchtower has had in print that they do not claim any cause for being homosexual whether they were born gay, or became gay. Furthermore what they have stated in print is that no matter what one's inclinations may be, if someone is to be found acceptable by god then they need to live by god's standards as found in the bible. The bible states that men that lay with men will not inherit god's kingdom. The bible states that homosexuality is a gross mortal sin. What the FDS has put in writing is that just as some men may be more inclined to anger, they need to not act on their anger and try to be peaceable among others just as the bible says. The same goes for anyone that has urges or attractions that may be against god's will... Even if someone has homosexual feelings or urges, what is most important is that they do not act on their inclinations and that they try their utmost to live by god's righteous standards. As humans we are all imperfect. As Christians we all are to follow Christ's example and be loving amongst ourselves. The brother that wrote the above letter never stated his age. Perhaps he is in his 20's or 30's (if age even matters), and perhaps only his immediate family and the elders have been made aware of his homosexual thoughts. However, despite this, if he does not openly discuss his inclinations with the congregation, and as long as he does not act out any sinful behavior then there is absolutely nothing to be reproved nor disfellowshiped of. The fact that the elders welcome him within the congregation id simply proof of their Christ-like spirit. The fact that this brother still attends meetings and strives not to act on his strong homosexual urges is simply proof of his love for god and his upright standards. Anyone stating anything to the contrary doesn't truly love god. Most people in the world simply want to hear that it's okay to do whatever they want. This is why so many churches of Christendom allow and support homosexuality and other sinful behavior that is forbidden in god's word. It is useless to serve god if you're not going to do it his way. Showing effort no matter how much is needed proves true love and loyalty toward god, and that is what is to be rewarded in the end.
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Josiah(not the king) :) • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I think that this is horribile,he clearly needs help.I don't know how you can be an ative Jehovah'stWitness and still be practicing such unrightiousness.He needs to be aware of the severe consequences and talked to by a n elder that may be able to help.Its a shame that there are people like this that they have accepted themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses and others have included them in there activities without addressing the problem,I understand a talk with a friend or a liesurly activitie but something must be done.
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Andrew >Josiah(not the king) :) • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑@Josiah - I am not sure I follow your comment completely. Are you saying being a homosexual is 'unrighteous'? If so, I think you're the one who needs help.
I am so sick of intolerant, ignorant, think they are better than other people, Christians, all based on an ancient and immoral book.
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Jason • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I just though I would add, just from my own experience, when you're a teenager and gay in the org things aren't too bad socially as most of the teenagers in the different congregations I attended use to go out all the time in groups. The groups weren't a bunch of people who were dating eachother, just single people who hung out as friends, so you didn't feel left out socially.
However, when you are in your twenties and older, that's when things start to affect you a lot more, as most of your friends are now starting to look at eachother with dating and marriage in mind. This is when someone being gay now starts to cause intense feelings of isolation and depression as they either have to accept a life knowing they can never allow themselves to fall in love and settle down with someone, fake it and marry a sister and have secret hook-ups on the side, or worse start drinking or drugs to deal with your feelings, or leave the organisation and just be who you are without apology.
That's why whoever wrote this letter is either gay, still in their teens and embellished quite a bit, or isn't gay and has just made to whole thing up to make the JW religion seem very accepting of people, which we all know it is far from accepting.
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Jason • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I stopped going about 5 years ago now. After 2 years out I found I had managed to completely unindoctrinate myself. It's true what they say...Knowledge leads to freedom, especially from baseless beliefs.
I feel bad for the people that feel they need to remain in because of family ties. My father and all his side of the family are still in, but once I reached the end of my tolerance for the orgs dribble and rules and people's constant remarking on every little thing you do that they think might be classed as unchristian, there was no hesitation.
At the age of, well, 30 something, I can finally live honestly. It really does feel like you're starting your life from the beginning again. I'm just glad I saw the light before I got really old and had no time left to begin again.
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Ben >Jason • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑@Jason - I understand completely - I am 26 and very grateful that I wasn't in my 50s or 60s and looking back on a wasted life. It's like starting fresh when you leave the cult!
Regards,
Ben
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Jason • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑I think his letter is full of crap. I'm gay and a born-in. I knew I liked boys before I was even old enough to understand what this religion teaches. To say you are not supressed is a outright lie. If you are gay, you can never talk about it openly, never date someone or allow yourself to fall in love like everyone else. The moment you do, you would either be reproved for talking about it, or disfellowshiped if you ever dated someone and didn't repent.
His talk about being beaten up and called names by worldly people sounds like a lie as well unless of course he is very feminine in his speech and mannerisms, which he would be counselled about by the elders. Unless he behaved like a sterotypical gay guy as usually portrayed in the media, most people would never think he was gay by looking at him, so he wouldn't be beaten up on account of that.
The fact he says homosexuality is unnatural shows how stupid the Watchtower Corporation like to keep their followers. How about this for a shocker.....incest is also natural, it occurs in nature. It may not be beneficial as far as offspring goes in humans, but it is part of the natural world.
I'd love to see how loving these people would be if he confessed his love for another brother. Which is highly doubtful as I think he's a liar from the things he wrote. He might be gay, but that would be as far as it goes truth-wise in his letter.
As a side note, maybe he should look up the definition of a cult and he would see in black and white that it fits the definition to a tea.
I guess if you can get someone to believe that the bible is true, they'll believe anything as long as it doesn't contradict it.
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Ben >Jason • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑@Jason - Thanks for your comment. You obviously dislike the Jehovah's Witnesses - are you still trying to get out of the cult or did you manage to escape already?
Regards,
Ben
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Sampson amens • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑Is it me, or has this Christopher simply said he is a gay Jehovah's Witness with the intention of trying to make out his cult isn't flawed?
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Shaun • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑First he claims to be gay and accepted in the congregation cause they follow the bible. Wonder what the flaw in that part there is... How about they'd instantly throw the 'man must not lie with another man' at him which is in their bible.
Second. Doesn't the last bit seem dodgey. He's gay and they accept him. He says its a sin and so is incest. So if he is accepted for being gay, are they accepting incest in their congregations as well?
And 'god' loves everyone so much that he said if they follow their natural feelings that are made in 'his image' that they'd be punished. If someone is gay, its not a disease or some curable thing like they make out. 'stop being gay or you'll not be in gods paradise' yeah cause the bible magically stops someones natural feelings cause being gay is in league with the devil.
Some people are just so close minded.
Anyway. I think that his email is total junk and obviously fake.
Just someone trying to denounce those denouncing jehovahs kingdom cause they blindly follow a book that claims itself to be a good book. Harry potter might be a good book but i'm not running around in a cape, waving a stick around shouting 'stupify' just cause its in a book
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Ben >Shaun • a year ago • 0 △0 ▽− + ⚑@Shaun: Though a religion based on Harry Potter might be more interesting...
Ben
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Login close Jehovah's Witness BlogHomeBlogAboutContactIt’s About Time!
Time plays a crucial role in the Watchtower religion. In this article we are going to examine how the concept of time is twisted by the Watchtower in an attempt to absolve Jehovah from the sin of telling the first lie. Back to the Beginning Let’s go back to the beginning (or very nearly the [& [...]
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Jehovah's Witness Blog » Science » Jehovah’s Witnesses Misleading Literature
Jehovah’s Witnesses Misleading Literature
Submitted by Andrew on June 15, 2012 - 2:01 pm 4 Comments Misquotes in Watchtower LiteratureI once pointed out to John Taliadoros, the head honcho of the Nicosia English congregation, that the Watchtower often ‘quote-mined’, or took quotes out of context. I also said how scientists are often attacked and written about in a negative light. He asked me to provide some examples, which I gladly did. It wasn’t hard – I just opened the ‘Life – How did it get here?’, facade of a book and found a couple in the first chapter. His reply, word for word, was:
“I do not agree with you that an organization that has done so much to benefit people by enlightening them so they can have hope in a better future (not to mention assisting in disasters, offering free literacy classes etc) would consciously try to get involved in what you described as “quote-mining”. For what purpose? To gain what?”
I’ll be publishing all the emails I had with John on JWB in the near future so you can all see how an elder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses had no real answers to my questions. There are some real classics in there.
For what purpose? To gain what? I’d say to distort the truth and keep people ignorant, to make people believe that the Watchtower’s position is valid.
The other day, I popped on to Watchtower.org and came across an article that was originally published in The Watchtower June 1, 2002. It was called, “Who Is to Blame – You or Your Genes?” It starts off like this, which immediately set alarm bells ringing:
SCIENTISTS are hard at work to try to find genetic causes for alcoholism, homosexuality, promiscuity, violence, other aberrant behavior, and even for death itself. Would it not be a relief to find that we are not responsible for our actions but are merely victims of biology? It is human nature to blame someone or something else for our errors.
Did you see that? They snuck “homosexuality” in there along with other “aberrant behavior”. Disgusting pigs at Watchtower HQ!
Anyway, let’s move on to the taking people’s quotes out of context. The article goes on to skew the idea that scientists are wasting their time looking at genes, and that we are responsible for all our actions. It says:
For a long time, scientists have been tackling the monumental task of finding genetic causes and cures for human pathology and behavior. After ten years of work by six teams of researchers, the gene linked to Huntington’s disease was isolated, although the researchers have no idea how the gene causes the disease. However, reporting on this research, Scientific American quoted Harvard biologist Evan Balaban, who said that it would be “almost infinitely harder to discover genes for behavioral disorders.”
Clearly, the article is implying that it took ten years and lots of scientists before they found a gene linked to Huntington’s disease. Then they quote Balaban who talks about behavioural disorder. First off, homosexuality is not a ‘disorder’. Second, the Watchtower is leaving off important information from the context of what and why Balaban said what he said.
As a science geek, I just so happen to read Scientific American, and quickly found the June 1993 issue online that they referred to. Interesting, because the entire paragraph, which appears on page 127, says:
As difficult as it was to pinpoint the gene for Huntington’s, it will be almost infinitely harder to discover genes for behavioral disorders, says Evan S. Balaban, a biologist at Harvard University. Unlike Huntington’s disease, he notes, disorders such as schizophrenia and alcoholism cannot be unambiguously diagnosed. Furthermore, they stem not from a single dominant gene but from many genes acting in concert with environmental effects. If researchers do find a statistical association between certain genes and a trait, Balaban says, that knowledge may never be translated into useful therapies or tests. “What does it mean to have a 10 percent increased risk of alcoholism?” he asks.
You see, the reason why Balaban said that it would be hard (but not impossible) to find genes for behavioural disorders is because the diagnoses of disorders are ambiguous, and that behaviour stems from MANY genes working in tandem and together with environmental effects.
I really hate how the Watchtower constantly, throughout it’s publications, make scientists out to be bad people with bad motives. Are scientists really researching behavioural links to genetics because they are trying to get an excuse to be gay, or violent? No, of course not!
The Watchtower always seems to do this – they find some evidence that they feel disproves something, (in this case that genes are responsible for our behaviour) and then present their alternative. Their alternative, however, has no supporting evidence. They say, “You’re wrong, so we’re right by default!” That isn’t honest and doesn’t prove your argument. I could say that, “because scientists can not link certain behavioural disorders to genes, it must mean that aliens control our minds.” You can see how absurd that is, I hope.
People who read the Watchtower really need to learn what good reasons are to believe something. The rational default position for any claim is not to accept it until evidence is provided to support that claim. In their “Who is to Blame” article, they throw in just enough of a quote to get people doubting scientists and then present their position with no evidence at all. I don’t claim to know enough about genetics and behavioural links to have a position either way – and neither should the uneducated dinosaurs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Governing Body. The right answer would be to say, “we don’t know”, rather than posit our own speculations as if they were fact.
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Login close Jehovah's Witness BlogHomeBlogAboutContactIt’s About Time!
Time plays a crucial role in the Watchtower religion. In this article we are going to examine how the concept of time is twisted by the Watchtower in an attempt to absolve Jehovah from the sin of telling the first lie. Back to the Beginning Let’s go back to the beginning (or very nearly the [& [...]
Do You Trust the Governing Body?
At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. Now is the time for any who [...]
Will Jehovah’s Witnesses Populate Other Planets?
When I was growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, I had to sit through a weekly Bible Study. This unfortunate weekly waste of my time was carried out by a lovely brother, Richard Baptiste. Richard was (and probably still is) great, which is a shame as I really put him through his paces. You see, [ [...]
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Jehovah's Witness Blog » Bible » Sex: All Along the Watchtower
Sex: All Along the Watchtower
Submitted by Steve on March 6, 2013 - 9:02 pm 9 Comments The bible is full of sexual encounters, so how does the Watchtower view sex?A famous wit was once asked if he believed in sex before marriage. “Yes,” he replied, “I believe everyone should be male or female prior to marriage.”
But when we refer to sex we typically mean much more than just possessing gender. We mean sexual relations between people, or even with oneself in the case of masturbation. [We should also note that the famous wit's witticism unfairly excludes hermaphrodites.]
They say that authors should write what they know about and have a lot of experience with. According to that formula, if you were to compile a list of of authors who were qualified to write about sex, my name would regrettably appear close to the bottom. But, that’s alright; I’m not going to discuss my own sexual experiences here. This is due not only to an appalling lack of material, but also because it is irrelevant to the real topic under discussion: the Watchtower’s view of sex.
The Bible’s View Of Sex vs. The Watchtower’s View
What do you think the Watchtower would say about a man who was a bi-sexual polygamist, liked to dance around naked, and had many mistresses? I think we can all agree that an individual exhibiting such
David
behavior would be quickly disfellowshipped for “conduct unbecoming.” Yet the man I’m describing is one of the most revered men in the Bible: King David! (1 Sam 20:41; 25:43; 2 Sam 5:13; 6:20)
What about an incestuous bigamist who, like the modern day Arnold Schwarzenegger, had sex with his wives’ maids? This is the Bible’s account of Jacob, whom God renamed Israel and “blessed abundantly.” (Gen:29:30; Gen:30:4; Gen:30:9; Gen:35:9-12).
Judah and TamarJudah, one of Israel’s sons, was another prominent figure in the Bible. He had sex with a prostitute (just like the modern-day actor Hugh Grant did. Isn’t it odd how we’re quick to condemn the “celebrities” of today for the same actions of the “great men” of the Bible?). But Judah was a real piece of work; in the best tradition of hypocritical double-standards, he then sought to burn his daughter-in-law alive for having “played the whore” by becoming pregnant after her husband had died. In the end, Judah only refrained from the horrific murder of his daughter-in-law when he discovered that she was the prostitute he’d had sex with, and he himself was the father of her unborn twins! No, it’s not a storyline from a daytime soap-opera or trashy novel; it’s Genesis chapter 38.
So, is it really a sin worthy of disfellowshipping for a person to have more than one wife, to have mistresses, or to have sex with ones maids? Is it a sin to have sex with a prostitute? Well, Israel is honored in the Bible (in fact he’s known as one of the “heroes of the Bible” by today’s Christians, and the highest level a Jehovah’s Witness can attain to is to be a “Spiritual Israelite”), so it doesn’t seem to have tarnished his reputation any. Also, we can ask: would God order someone to commit a sin? Well, the prophet Hosea was ordered by God to marry (i.e. have sex with) a prostitute (Hosea 1:2-3).
Solomon's harem
The Bible tells us that King Solomon was the wisest man who ever lived or ever will live (1 Kgs 3:12) [which makes us wonder about how dumb Jesus must've been in comparison.] In all his wisdom, what did Solomon do? He had 700 wives and 300 concubines. (1 Kgs 11:3) That means he could have a different sexual partner every night and not see the same woman twice in over two and a half years! But he probably indulged in more than one woman at a time (just imagine all of the possible permutations!)
Solomon also wrote, in his “wisdom literature:” “Has one found a [good] wife? One has found a good thing, and one gets goodwill from Jehovah.” (Prov. 18:22) And: “Rejoice with the wife of your youth… Let her own breasts intoxicate you at all times. With her love may you be in an ecstasy constantly.” (Prov. 5:18-19)
Then, Along Came Paul (And Then, Maybe Jesus)
Wedding at CanaSaul/Paul, a true misogynist, said it was better never to touch a woman, and that it’s better not to get married. (1 Corinthians 7:1,8) Afterward, the creators of Jesus’ biographies had him extol the virtues of self-castration! (MT 19:12) So much for the wisdom of Solomon’s “constant ecstasy!” On the other hand, Jesus reputedly performed a miracle just to help a couple celebrate their wedding. (John 2:1-11) One would surmise from that action that he wasn’t entirely against the idea of men and women coming together and doing what’s necessary to bring about children.
Despite these minority opinions of Paul and the creators of the Gospels’ Jesus, the Bible seems to tolerate – if not outright advocate – a healthy indulgence of ones sexual appetite.
The View From The Watchtower
The Watchtower has always taken a hard-line stance against sexual activity, even though Rutherford is known to have had at least two mistresses in addition to a wife (though he was separated from the latter.)
The Watchtower is against premarital sex, bisexuality, homosexuality, and masturbation. They frown upon unmarried couples kissing or even holding hands. You’re not even supposed to “date” an individual unless you’re seriously considering them as a marriage partner. They have also been against certain private sexual practices between a husband and wife, though I’m told they’ve changed their minds on this more than once1 [Interesting how, on their own authority, they can change a practice from being a sin to being acceptable. All the while the Bible continues to say the same things it has said for centuries. It should have been a fairly simple matter to read the Bible and see that it contains no such prohibitions before blurting out opinions that ruin people's lives.]
The Reality
Somehow we came by these hormones which drive our sexual desire. [I recall mine fully raging out of control by the age of 14.] The Watchtower would credit the creation of these hormones to Jehovah. So, according to Watchtower logic, Jehovah gives us these desires and then demands that we not act on them: at least not for several years until we’re of marriageable age and have, in fact, “tied the knot.” This tends to force young people into either marrying before it is economically feasible for them (and then suffering a life of poverty), or into “giving in” to their desires and suffering the consequent Watchtower-imposed guilt. I suspect most of them secretly practice masturbation as the most innocuous and only livable solution to the challenge of simultaneously being human and a Jehovah’s Witness. [I know I did.]
The Watchtower: Out of Bounds
king-davids-love-for-jonathan-frank-louis-burgess
“Do not go beyond the things that are written,” The Bible tells us (1 Corinthians 4:6) – and it didn’t mean the things that are written in the Watchtower. The Bible does not contain any writings about masturbation, nor does it condemn any sexual practices between married couples.2
Paul may have been a homophobe, but it doesn’t appear that anyone else mentioned in the Bible was. The Song of Solomon sings the praises of homosexuality, and despite his many wives and concubines, King David’s favorite lover was a man named Jonathan. (2 Sam 1:26)
Yes, there’s that prohibition in Lev. 18:22, but as all Christians will tell us when we point out other absurd laws in the Hebrew Scriptures: “The old law passed away.”
Consequently, the Watchtower has no business pontificating on these practices. When they declare that such practices are “sinful” They are the ones violating a Bible principle: by going beyond the things that are written.
“Why Do You Not Decide For Yourself What Is Right?” (Luke 12:57)
It is your duty and responsibility as a human being to decide for yourself what is appropriate sexual behavior for you. Such decisions, of course should give sufficient consideration to how your actions affect others – just as all of your decisions should. You must be guided by empathy in such matters where others are involved, and it goes without saying that it must always be completely uncoerced, consensual, and between adults.
dancing_bunnyNow, please don’t misunderstand me; I’m not advocating that Jehovah’s Witnesses go out and enjoy all of the sexual activity they possibly can with complete abandon like oversexed bunny rabbits. For one thing: I certainly don’t want to be held responsible for breeding more Jehovah’s Witnesses! But more importantly, in a civilized society there must be some constraints to our desires. Fulfilling such desires should not be our top priority, and when we do fulfill them we need to do so in a respectful, safe manner with our eyes wide open to the consequences of our actions to everyone involved.
Discipline isn’t a bad thing. But neither is sexual activity properly self-regulated. I emphasized “self” very deliberately in the preceding sentence; the Watchtower has no right poking its nose – or any other appendage – into our bedrooms [or into our kitchens, stairways, or the back-seats of our vehicles - for the more adventurous amongst us.] It’s especially ironic and hypocritical of them when you consider the paedophilia they allow to take place.
The reason you exist is that sex is pleasurable. Otherwise, your mother and father would never have “done the deed.” Somewhere along the line people would’ve gotten bored with procreation and the burdens entailed by caring for the young that are produced thereby [I'm speaking of that long dark period of human history before the invention of condoms.] It’s a really good thing that sex is pleasurable, otherwise we wouldn’t be here, and neither would the Governing Body be here telling us to live our lives in denial of our nature – hmmm, I guess there’s pros and cons to everything.
God, Love, and Sex
Sex is not love, neither is God love (in spite of what 1 John 4:8 claims.) Love is a whole other subject for discussion in a future article. For now I only want to point out that love should not be confused with God or with sex. Love is not that mass-murdering egotistical moron masquerading as “God” in the Bible. Nor is it the physical pleasures of sexual activity. You can have sex without love (which I imagine is fun and exciting for a time, but ultimately shallow). You can also have love without sex (ask anyone who’s been married ten years or more.)
But when love and sex come together in your life: well, it doesn’t get much better than that. It would be one of the greatest mistakes of your life to permit the Watchtower to interfere with such happiness in any way shape or form; they have no reason, no authority, and no clue.
Notes:
1 “Nevertheless, if future cases of gross unnatural conduct, such as the practice of oral or anal copulation, are brought to their attention, the elders should act to try to correct the situation before further harm results, as they would do with any other serious wrong. Their concern is, of course, to try to help those who go astray and are ‘caught in the snare of the Devil.’ (2 Tim. 2:26) But if persons willfully show disrespect for Jehovah God’s marital arrangements, then it becomes necessary to remove them from the congregation as dangerous “leaven” that could contaminate others.” (Watchtower 12/1/1972 p.734-736)
“A careful further weighing of [oral sex], however, convinces us that, in view of the absence of clear Scriptural instruction, these are matters for which the married couple themselves must bear the responsibility before God” (Watchtower, 2/15/1978)
[Why hadn't they done a "careful weighing" back in 1972 before opening their discreet mouths?]
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2 “It must be acknowledged that the Bible does not give any specific rules or limitations as regards the manner in which husband and wife engage in sexual relations.” (Watchtower 2/15/1978 p.30-31)
[Which is exactly what Witnesses were trying to tell the Watchtower prior to 1978, and no doubt being disfellowshipped for their efforts.]
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Steve McRoberts Monthly – Steve McRoberts, the author of Falling in Truth: The Education of a Jehovah’s Witness, is a new member of the JWB Team! Steve will be publishing his monthly’s on JWB, so go and tell your friends about him.
Tags: Sex in the Bible, Steve McRoberts, Steve McRoberts Monthly, The Watchtower's View of Sex
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