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← The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”
The trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn’t put you off being one) →
 
The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond?
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Posted on November 28, 2015

Jehovah's Witnesses pride themselves on esteeming the sanctity of marriage. But is this true in all circumstances?
Jehovah’s Witnesses pride themselves on esteeming the sanctity of marriage. But is this true in all circumstances?

This time last year, I began my exit from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. My fade towards inactivity did not go unnoticed.
A few fellow believers and friends approached me with a strong warning: “Be careful.  Satan is working through your husband to discourage you from serving Jehovah.”
Why would they jump to such a harsh conclusion? Was he a violent man, physically prohibiting me from attending meetings?  Did he yell at me with a raised voice discouraging me from preaching? Did he berate me over my faith, pushing apostate ideas instead of Bible truths?
The answer to all such questions is a resounding “no!” He was the same kind, loving, hard-working, honest moral man I had married. The only thing that had changed was that he, one year prior, had left the religion of his youth, without any wrongdoing, discipline or explanation.
His exit triggered a change in how fellow believers viewed our relationship. For one year, I was constantly reminded of the danger of having a willful unbeliever as a spouse.
As most did, I believed Jehovah’s people respected the family arrangement, including the marital union, even if one was an unbeliever. Yet, this was not my personal experience. While I sought to find a balance in my new role, I received great pressure to give up and leave my husband.
This left me with questions: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses break up families?  Do they allow for separation on grounds other than adultery? Finally, why would fellow members insist that Satan was making a personal attack against me via my spouse?
To help make sense of what was happening, I engaged in personal research and reflection.
In October 2014, JW.org posed this very question: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Break Up Families or Build Them Up?
This was their answer…

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we work to build up families, both our own and those of our neighbors. … In the Bible, [Jehovah] teaches principles that have helped people around the world to have marriages that are strong and happy.
The article continues by giving experiences showing how mixed-belief families were better off because one mate became a Jehovah’s Witness. The newly converted mate could apply Bible principles to settle conflicts and strengthen the marriage bond.
However, the article goes on to admit that conversion could bring about conflict.

Admittedly, sometimes it does. For example, a 1998 report by the research company Sofres found that 1 out of 20 marriages in which only one mate was a Witness had serious problems when that one converted.
Jesus foretold that those who follow his teachings would at times suffer family strife. (Matthew 10:32-36)
As I read the last paragraph, it felt untruthful; an outright conflict of the behavior and teachings of ones inside the organization (bold is mine).

However, the Witnesses do not encourage their members to separate from a marriage mate who is not a Witness. The Bible says: “If any brother has an unbelieving wife and she is agreeable to staying with him, let him not leave her; and if a woman has an unbelieving husband and he is agreeable to staying with her, let her not leave her husband.” (1 Corinthians 7:12, 13) Jehovah’s Witnesses abide by this command.
Perhaps, if I had never been a witness and my husband had remained an unbeliever, congregation members would have provided me support and treated me differently.  But, alas, no. Because my husband became an unbeliever, willingly and by choice, I received no such support.
Rather, I had to beg the elders for a shepherding call. At the time, I was desperate for some guidance and help. It was the strangest experience.
Quickly, the tone of the meeting turned. The elders tried to pressure me to reveal private details about my mate’s exit from the organization. I refused. They warned me that Satan would try to “shipwreck” my faith through the actions of, and interactions with, my husband.
I needed encouragement and spiritual counsel. To this end, they provided me with a print out from the September 2006 Watchtower entitled, “When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah.”  It described my personal, perceived situation with such descriptive words as deep anguish, devastating, heartbroken and difficult.
The elders tried to confirm this fear by sharing the following excerpt:

So it is not surprising that humans would grieve over the spiritual loss of a beloved relative.
Indeed, the spiritual loss of a loved one is among the most difficult of trials that come upon true worshipers. (Acts 14:22) Jesus said that accepting his message would cause division in some families. (Matthew 10:34-38) This is not because the Bible message of itself causes family division. Rather, unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity.
I left that meeting a wreck, and the badgering from congregation members continued.  Within weeks of him no longer attending meetings or preaching, members of the congregation, including pioneers, elders, and elder’s wives, began to remind me that my marriage was second to my life and dedication to God. Without asking how things were at home, they began to assume my spouse was interfering with spiritual things.
Over and over again, congregation members offered unsolicited advice: “God comes first, so be prepared to separate.” Further, some even offered to help me pack up my belongings.
Not once did I tell anyone he was preventing me from attending meetings, preaching, or living a Christian lifestyle. In fact, he was still in good standing and had not committed any wrongdoing in the eyes of the congregation.
Now, divorce is only allowed if one of the mates commits adultery.  But three extreme circumstances allow for separation.  As explained in the book, “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love” Appendix:
1.Willful Nonsupport
2.Extreme Physical Abuse
3.Absolute Endangerment of Spiritual Life

Absolute endangerment of spiritual life. A spouse may constantly try to make it impossible for the mate to pursue true worship or may even try to force that mate to break God’s commands in some way. In such a case, the threatened mate would have to decide whether the only way to “obey God as ruler rather than men” is to obtain a legal separation.—Acts 5:29.
Yet, this was NOT so in my case.  Why would they try so hard to push me away from my mate?  Truly, I believe it was out of fear that I would begin to awaken and leave off serving Jehovah.
My friends were constantly reminding me that my spiritual life was endangered and the only solution was to separate from my husband.
Sadly, I understood the fear that motivated them.  For most of my life, I was told marriage could only succeed if Jehovah was a part of it.

“Threefold cord” is a figurative expression. (Eccl. 4:12) When applied to marriage, it includes the husband and wife, two strands, who are intertwined with the central strand, God. Being united with God gives a couple the spiritual strength to cope with problems and to achieve happiness.—w08 9/15, page 16.
Truthfully, the fault lies with those issuing instructions and enforcing the teachings while disguising these as helpful advice.
I am glad I listened to my heart and common sense. I am grateful I fought to preserve my marriage in the face of conflict and change.  We spent time together each day, usually walking in the evenings. This helped to bring us closer.
Honestly, it wasn’t until my husband left that we began to have real, honest conversations. This helped me open my eyes to the truth about this harmful organization. I am no longer a blind drone obeying without thought or consequence.
Is my marriage built up? Am I happier now that I can communicate without fear? Do we have more time to spend together, which in turn strengthens our marriage bond?
Yes! My only regret?
That we did not leave sooner.




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← The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”
The trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn’t put you off being one) →
 
172 Responses to The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond?


Newer Comments →
 
 Cedars says:

 November 28, 2015 at 5:37 am
 
I just want to apologize. This article for the Friday Column was meant to go up yesterday (Friday!) but due to complicated circumstances I was unable to publish it on time. I’m sure once you read it you will agree that it was better late than never! Thank you, Jane, for a cogent, insightful look at the strain “fading” can place on a marriage thanks to the “us vs. them” black-and-white thinking of the organization.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:43 am
 
No need to apologise Lloyd as your regular readers amongst know how busy you are, especially with your house reform work (how’s that going by the way?)
 I watched your “giveaway” video last night and couldn’t believe the amount of nutters you get on there (Son of Thunder, for one). Don’t let those “Christians” get you down. Most of us value your efforts, even active JWs like me :)
Reply
 
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:05 pm
 
No need to apologize but i hope you know how much we appreciate this site…
Reply
 
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:04 am
 
Fantastic article Jane, you made the right choice. The Watchtower’s hypocrisy on this matter is quite stunning. They demand loyalty to the organisation at any cost, even riding roughshod over direct commands from the bible, like Jesus’ words at Mark 10:9: “what God has yoked together let no MAN put apart.” Of course, in usurping Jesus’ authority they violate just about every other principle and command in the bible too, and effectively invalidate themselves; they are guilty of everything he condemned the Pharisees for. It’s just disgraceful how many lives/marriages/families they are prepared to tear apart in their delusional quest for glory and self-promotion.
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 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 28, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
When the Watchtower imposes man made rules that supersede god’s directions (such as Mark 10:9) they are in effect teaching you to obey MAN (them) as ruler rather than God. They would rather tear a marriage apart and keep at least one member captive than risk letting two people think and decided for themselves things which, at the end of the day, are only between them and their god. I find it ironic that this direction is to be found in a book they call “keep yourselves in gods love.” !
(I’m referring to this part of the article):
“Now, divorce is only allowed if one of the mates commits adultery. But three extreme circumstances allow for separation. As explained in the book, “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love” Appendix:
Willful Nonsupport
 Extreme Physical Abuse
 Absolute Endangerment of Spiritual Life
 Absolute endangerment of spiritual life. A spouse may constantly try to make it impossible for the mate to pursue true worship or may even try to force that mate to break God’s commands in some way. In such a case, the threatened mate would have to decide whether the only way to “obey God as ruler rather than men” is to obtain a legal separation.—Acts 5:29.”
Reply
 
 Caltanzee says:

 November 28, 2015 at 9:39 pm
 
Eric Arthur Blair. You said it all for me. You hit the nail right on the head !! It’s all about blind allegiance to the organization and abandon anything, everyone or anything else without due thought or consideration..whereas the scriptures say to prove all things and hold to what is fine..This lady knew she had a good and caring husband, and it was good that she did not allow herself to become deluded by misinformation into making a bad choice..most of watchtower policies are fantasy, whereas we lives in a world of reality.
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 Winston Smith says:

 November 29, 2015 at 1:26 pm
 
Insightful comments, Eric. I have often related this to Jesus illustration about the wicked tenant farmers (husbandmen, KJV) at Matthew 21:33-41. When the landowner sent his son to collect his fruit, the tenant farmers say, “This is the heir. Come let’s kill him and take his inheritance!” Notice the goal: to get that which only rightfully belongs to the son.
It seems to me that the organization wants to insert itself as the mediator between God and man, a position that only Christ can rightly claim (1 Tim 2:5). I think this is why Jesus has been pushed more and more into the background as this organization has developed.
WS
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 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 29, 2015 at 5:31 pm
 
Very true Winston, I completely agree and appreciate the application you make of Jesus’ illustration at Matthew 21:33-41 – the shoe definitely fits. It seems we are kindred spirits in pseudonyms also :)
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 30, 2015 at 7:11 am
 
Yes, Orwell’s writings played a key role during my awakening from this organization. 1984 particularly so.
WS

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Malachi says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:13 am
 
Thanks for sharing your story Jane. My wife gets bombarded with ‘How’s Malachi? Tell him we miss him. We really miss his comments.’ constantly and the accompanying sympathetic, knowing look. I don’t think anyone has been so brash as to suggest that she should pack up and leave me, most of her associates are either family or close friends that have known us for many years and I think some suspect that something is up. What most don’t know is that she is planning her exit also and is trying to extricate herself from the old habits that formed with others over the years without looking too obvious. Fortunately she woke up really fast and while I’ve known for a number of years that it’s all a sham I just played along more or less until I found that there were a number of people locally who wanted out. Your article was very well written and researched and I’m sure others will find it useful also.
Reply
 
 Jane Redwood says:

 November 28, 2015 at 7:03 am
 
I had this, too. In fact, at first I was devastated my husband stopped. I was bombarded with questions about him or comments like you mentioned. It made me cry. I just wanted someone to say they were happy to see me instead of “Tell him we miss him.” Finally, I changed the subject. I would say that he is fine and change the subject.
Finally he told me I could tell ones he was taking a break from.religion. I started using this at the 2014 International Convention. But they would cry. It was hard. I wanted to br there but I didnt want to be a sidenote.
I am glad your wife woke up. I hope to help ones by sharing my story of waking up after my mate left and how he removed the blinders without raising typical JW walls.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 30, 2015 at 11:29 am
 
People can be so petty. Just yesterday a sister came up to my son and said it’s so nice to see you we missed you. Mind you my son was gone for a weeks vacation and she was one vacation for two weeks. But she never even thought of the fact that she wasn’t there.
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 anonymous4 says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:31 am
 
The Wikipedia article on Jehovah’s Witnesses repeats some accurate insights about Jehovah’s Witness practice. In Section 8 (Criticism & controversy), 8.1 – Free Speech & thought, mention is made of people (including ex-Witnesses) who compare the Organization to George Orwell’s “1984” novel;as well as calling the Watchtower Society “totalitarian.”
Reply
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:39 am
 
I just remembered (perhaps it subconsciously brought the novel to mind), in “1984” the totalitarian regime intentionally broke up a love affair between the 2 main characters.
Reply
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:38 am
 
Thanks for a lovely article Jane and sharing your experiences. It really is a shame that there are so many judgmental JWs in a religion that professes love. Marriage is a divine institution so both mates should work hard to preserve it in spite of thoughtless, harsh comments from JWs with a shallow view of life and little respect for God’s gift of marriage.
 Hugs for you both. AJ
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:39 am
 
Do you remember the vow “What God has yoked together let no man put apart”. It gives the idea that no one should intervene or interfere in another person’s marriage. Seems these men want to sanction their own opinion. If a couple do separate it must be their choice no one elses. Too many people want to put their own spanner in the works. Jane I liked your article very much because the aim of your “friends” seemed ambiguous especially if they wanted to assist you in leaving your husband by helping you pack. That would be in direct opposition to the above mandate in the marriage lines. Suffice to say you personal situation gave the vultures plenty of gossip to feed on so you did a public service by allowing them to feed on your life. Funny how we become public property when going through trauma or crisis or just major change. It is all too incestuous for my liking because there is no such thing as a private life so there is no way to dignify another person. Shows me they are a shallow fleshly lot of people. No one who considers anothers right to a private life would deign to be so intrusive. It actualy shows the devi lhas work for idle tongues and hands. No wonder the nickname godbotherers sticks. Gadding about the houses with sodall to do but intrude on other peoples lives. Generally jws should go and get a proper job and butt out of other peoples marriages ruthless/ruthlee.
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 Average Joe says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:49 am
 
Totally agree Ruthlee. As an elder it wouldn’t even cross my mind to stick my nose into someone else’s family business. I go by the UK Police’s policy: ‘never get involved in domestics!’ 😉
We are there to provide spiritual guidance and wellbeing, nothing more. When it comes to real problems (health, psychological, depression etc) then those are best left to the professionals. If a couple experience marriage problems then there are professional counsellors for that too and I can guarantee you that THEY won’t gossip about confidential details to their wives or other family members!
Reply
 
 
 
 JJ says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:44 am
 
Wow, thank you for this article!
 I forwarded this on to my wife and asked her if this has been her experience. (I’ll hear later today, I’m sure).
 I know that her elder-father and his wife definitely pressured my wife to leave me using his God-given authority because I intercepted many of his emails to his daughter, my wife.
 My wife has returned and I know that she would agree our marriage has also never been better since I left the JWs. Hopefully she will start to put things together in her mind and by seeing that this is an organization wide ‘problem’, she will be able to avoid this pressure in the future!
Reply
 
 
 Jerry O Connor says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:50 am
 
Hello all.
 This story is a carbon copy of my own. I lost my wife, my children, my friends, my home.and life as I knew it. I left watchtower and I had no inkling that I would loose everything. The love that watchtower preaches is conditional. Let no one be in any doubt as to this. They wreck families and leave a trail of desolation in their wake. Watchtower is nothing more than a cult that uses undue influence to an extreme. I hope that it and all other belief systems will be eradicated from the earth. Religion is a blight on mankind. It is for those not able to grasp the fact that death is the end. Belief in something without evidence that it exists takes naievety to its highest level. The word ‘belief’ should be.removed.from usage. The Universe is 13. 7 billion years old. Earth is 4.6 billion years old and we are here because of natural selection by evolution. This is a proven scientific fact. The first destruction of Jerusalem by the.Babylonians took place in 586 bce /587 bce. This is another fact and like evolution is backed by evidence. There is absolutely no evidence for a god of any kind. God did not create man, man created god out of primal fear and superstition. All religions are bad, no redeeming features in any. Ask any of them for solid evidence to back up their outrageous claims and you will find that none exists.
 Jerry
Reply
 
 jeff canning says:

 November 28, 2015 at 1:53 pm
 
well said jerry…
Reply
 
 
 Wendy says:

 November 29, 2015 at 7:56 pm
 
Religion is an invention of man, not God. Being spiritual with a belief in an intelligent creator is different from being religious, which is nothing more than following the traditions of men. Believing that everything came from nothing takes much faith, as there is no evidence to either prove or disprove God’s existence.
Reply
 
 
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:03 am
 
I was married young as a JW (not uncommon) around 19. My wife had the dream of fulltime pioneering. I worked hard and became vey adept at finance and by 25 was running my own financial institution. This allowed her fulltime pioneer and not work. She was used for assembly parts, conventions, etc.
 I however was constantly chastised for focusing on secular work. Working 50+ hours a week. I would average 8 hours a month service time. But I was constantly felt to be second class and below everyone. The first year my wife and I were smooth sailing. She was reaping all the benefits and life was good! But I became under scrutiny when I would miss on average two Thursday night meetings a month simply because I was too tired. I would be tied in by phone. We owned a simple middle class house – she had a nice car and I had a used one. Money wasn’t exactly flowing – but most families require dual income these days to operate. We did not and we were at about the same level as your average JW.
 In my heart I had no desire to pioneer. Zero. I found the ministry intrusive, awkward, and generally a huge waste of time. Especially when I would work long hours the last thing I wanted to do in my time off was hear some loopy old sister in the car ramble on about how many cats she would have in paradise. And if the new scrolls that would be opened would allow her animals to be resurrected.
 I had many good friends in the hall – brothers – who I would spoil with grill offs, movie nights etc. Simple but a way to give poor brothers a chance to just relax. Well this all culminated to a head when the new CO came around and brought me and my wife into a room. He berated me with scripture after scripture about how I was storing up treasures on earth, how I was buying my way into paradise by using my wifes pioneering as a meal ticket, and how I was a “Fulltime pioneer of being good time charley.”
This taking away of power and belittling me had a bad impact on my wife. She began to demand I aux pioneer too. And not be viewed as materialistic. It was amazing to me in about six months she had a total “Us vs you” mentality. Anytime I would sleep in on Saturday while she went to work I was given the cold shoulder the rest of the weekend. You can imagine trying to reason and the arguments that came about when the very job that was supporting her JW lifestyle was also the problem. Fast forward two years later – we are sitting before two elders and I lay down the smack. “You want change? Fine. She needs to quit fulltime pioneering and get a job so I can step down to a lesser position to lessen my work hours. You either keep it the way it is – or we both change our lifestyle.”
There was a marking talk on Husbands who even within the congregation endanger their wives spirituality. The elders felt I was being selfish and robbing her of her dream and stealing from Jah. They began sending her articles on separation and eventually she moved in with another sister. Unbelievable. The mental turmoil I felt during these years was unreal. My happy, emotional, sexually normal and productive marriage had been slowly eroded to “Sell all your possessions – find a way to pioneer like your wife – and leave it in Jahs hands. Until then – you have been marked. ” We stopped talking, seeing each other, and she would always say “I hope you figure this out before Armageddon.”
So even within the congregation – the us vs you mentality can hit home. It certainly did for me. Is my situation the norm? I have no idea – but there were three elders who never once were reasonable – respected my headship – or stood with my decisions. Decisions I might add that were none of there business to meddle in.
Reply
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:07 am
 
I meant when I slept in on Saturday because of working and she went out in service. Oops!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:27 am
 
sure you did.. you just waited until she went out the door and then ran round the house in your boxers and played on the Xbox 😉 lol. seriously though, that is terrible what they put you through. I can’t remember you saying if you and your wife are back together I hope she saw what was happening and woke up. Big hug hun.
Reply
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:55 am
 
I will also never forget getting into arguments because I refused to go out in service on Thanksgiving and X-Mas day. I was like “Good lord! That’s so tacky!”
and then yes I would play X-box. lol
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 28, 2015 at 10:57 am
 
Dear phoenix rising damned if you do damned if you don’t your crazy crazy story just shows the pressure the poor elders are under to bankrupt any one successful and generally working hard to provide. And of course that poor dear circus overdub has to keep the minions in check and berate you for being a good citizen and honourable husband. Guess what phoenix, if you had been a nasty man you probably would have got in the year book but being a good man they had to trample on you. Your foolish wife did not know how good she had it . Her freedom to knock doors all day at your expense and yet it all got sabotaged and all for what? Who won in your war who walked away happy in their victory? Your experience is wrong on so many levels it truly is beyond belief. The wicked moral guardians are shameful and disgraceful. I hope you got your life back on track and are happy now.On a last note the victims in this war have all lost something and now it is all coming out I wonder if there was ANY truth with this cowboy outfit! ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 Mara Jacobs-Proctor says:

 November 28, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
Hi Phoenix, So sorry they put you through that. You might want to look at my post…as an older person who did have a husband who put concerns about making money aside because Armageddon was so close. That was 40 plus years ago. Let’s skip ahead to 2015… no Armageddon and no savings for retirement! We’re up the creek without a paddle! I’m sorry for your loss but I’m glad you didn’t do what we did!
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 28, 2015 at 3:55 pm
 
Wow dude.
 Read your story.
 I feel really bad for you.
 So glad I’m outa the cult.
 It sounds like you’ll have to get tough… take a real stand and see where the chips fall.
 Best wishes
 G
Reply
 
 
 Jo says:

 November 28, 2015 at 4:13 pm
 
Well for one thing I can read between the lines is that you have an attitude problem with the females. What is this power that you think you have? And why do you feel belittled?
 I am no longer a JW and my husband woke up to the sexist ways of the JWs. I don’t believe in headship, two way respect is all that’s needed in any relationship.
 The little old ladies you are using as your example of annoyance might have lost children and long lost loves along the way, she might very well put all her love into her little animal companions, but why criticise her and why are you picking on a little old lady, why don’t you use as an example the old fart men who suffer enlarged prostates, flatulence, sits with their legs apart, and then has the audacity to perve on a young sister walking past?
 I suspect your problem is not only interfering JWs but your own lack of relationship with your wife, stop seeing yourself as top dog and the all important male and just become a nice respectful person to yourself and those around you.
Reply
 
 Phoenix_rising says:

 November 28, 2015 at 4:54 pm
 
^ this lol
 I’ll respond later. But thanks for your thoughts. For the record I feel sisters or women are treated as second class in all ways in the JW. Read between the lines indeed – You might find one between a ring finger and a pointer with a judgemental responses like that.
Reply
 
 
 Sara says:

 November 28, 2015 at 5:58 pm
 
Hello Jo,
 Lol I so laughed at your comment, I too noticed the seeming importance of power and headship . But I so relate to your example of these old bastards of Elders and Ministerial Servants who constantly pass judgement on the sisters, they make you sick. as far I can read in the bible, man has been to his own ruin it’s just amazing how forgiving the females have been , I suppose we are always hoping they will change, lol, yeah right, fat chance!
Reply
 
 
 
 Caltanzee says:

 November 29, 2015 at 5:22 am
 
Phoenix_risin, let’s hope your wife wake up to critical thinking just as Jane did, and to realize that she are being conned into obeying wicked sinfull men rather than God And Christ. For it was Christ who empathize to the deluded Pharisees that what God has yoked together no man should pull apart.Thus in this as in so many instances.watchtower directives goes contrary to the very teachings of Christ. I hope she soon come to realize that you were not the problem in the marriage, but that the real culprit was the undue influence and indoctrination of watchtower’s pharisaical spin doctors.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 30, 2015 at 1:40 am
 
Oh pheonix_rising. That experience kind of sounds familiar. This article makes you realise how much manipulation went on in marriages. How many Watchtowers did we get that explained that a married man with children should be not only reaching out for a position but also to be conducting the family bible study every week.
My husband had so much trouble with this for some reason. I think he didn’t like the idea of having a separate night just for bible study with the family. There was so much time dedicated to everything spiritual, it was one extra burden he had to think of. He felt burnt out after awhile and refused to do it, so I berated him for this. The Watctowers always encouraged this endlessly. They were obsessed about it. I feel so bad now when I think about it. It raised awful arguments which were very distressing for both of us. We fought about it for years. I even remember thinking he had become some sort of failure. That is so evil to feel like that about your mate without cause.
I cannot believe how pushy they were to be judgmental and bossy with our spouse. The whole religion was just criticism and dobbing someone else in. They certainly tried very hard to break up marriages. Yours is a classic example. They interfered with what God said that no man was to put apart.
What a horrendous situation you had to put up with. It must have been unbearable and to have your marriage snatched away from you by these evil people is beyond belief.
Reply
 
 
 Yossarian says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:48 pm
 
@phoenix
I can relate. I encountered the ire of local body of elders when I asked for assistance (my part-time jobs were not earning me enough to pay bills), so I focused on getting full-time income (my expenses were already at the bare minimum, and Swaggert had not afforded JW’s the luxury of “free” literature). Roll forward a few years, and I had another elder body jump all over me for having a full-time job–and, I had stretched to “waste time” knocking on empty doors and Bible-rooted Christians (not budging from the Cross) and hit all the “typical” non-pioneer times prior to pioneering (“the joy”? yeah, right–).
It’s was “a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules” [not wanting to leave anyone lost and confused on word–“Catch 22”], and that was when I realized the absurdity about the Truth (TAATT, Copyright 2015).
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:17 am
 
I had to smile and nod my head at this article. My daughter married out of the truth and had a baby. Both of these acts led to her being df’d for close to two years. She came back because she missed her friends, nothing more. But now the visits have started. Every Saturday morning the elders and their wives can’t seem to hold their bladders whilst out in service and come knocking on her door – as you can imagine this is getting annoying. Last Saturday, as per an elder knocks on her door with his elderette in tow and the conversation gets around to her ‘not keeping your promise to perform your sacred duty and be out in service’…. yadda yadda yadda…. anyway they then start to turn it around to her husband and how he is keeping her away from the meetings and service and she must put God and them first…. as you can imagine when I saw her later that day she was livid. Did their visit encourage her to do more? Not a cat in hells chance. It made her dig her heels in and vow to not be home on a Saturday am. Now this ticks me off because it means we have to leave the house (I live in the suite and always leave on a Sat am) so as to avoid unwanted guests. This is upsetting her husband as you can imagine. He like to lounge around in his ‘shorts’ and play xbox (sigh’s) as they do lol.
p.s My son in law had put up ‘his’ Christmas tree the night before.
Reply
 
 Kat says:

 November 28, 2015 at 5:20 pm
 
No JW wants to think, or allow themselves to think people dislike service and meetings. They naturally assume it must be an Unnatural force like Satan that controls the person. If you don’t attend meeting IT MUST be the unbelieving mate, Satan or some other person as no one would hate this foolish life of perpetual monotony.
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 just asking says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
 
Can’t these guys leave people alone for once to make personal decisions?
 Why do they always contradict what they write?
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 ENLIGHTENED says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:34 am
 
This the the exact story of my life. I married a 3rd generation JW, he left in 1961 following the birth of our first child……..I was devastated. The elders warned me he would have 7 demons move in on him………I was in spiritual danger. They tried to break up our marriage. Thank goodness it didn’t happen. I left in 1986……stayed much too long. Didn’t want to hurt my JW family. Now they don’t speak, I am apostate worthy of death.
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 ruthlee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 4:14 am
 
no you are not! you are a sucess story no matter how long the story took to unfold.ENLIGHTENED if you still believe in god(your choice of course) you actually stuck to the divine mandate to stay together as you both made the vow , not the people who witnessed your marriage. By the way how are those demons who set up home in your place all those years ago? I bet you have had to make endless cups of tea to satisfy their need to intrude in your life! So thinking of it you are not worthy of death just the opposite but a life of a few regrets like all of us but life just the same. ruthlee
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 Cherie says:

 November 28, 2015 at 9:45 am
 
I think it just goes to prove that all JW relationships are conditional. Many JW men I knew were big-time control freaks and there’s nothing loving or kind about a control freak.
Reply
 
 
 Mara Jacobs-Proctor says:

 November 28, 2015 at 10:22 am
 
Hi Jane, Thank you for the lovely article. This issue is something that I’ve given a great deal of thought to. I began my exit in the spring of 2014. It was then that I started to realize how WT teachings affected our 40 plus year marriage, and not in a good way. What led me to this conclusion was the fact that when I stopped all JW activity, I expected our marriage to get even more difficult. We were both JWs, but our marriage was filled with anger and resentment. At times I even felt like I hated my husband! But much to my surprise, he started to be noticeably nicer to me. I figured out that maybe some of it was ‘love bombing’ but the main reason was because he didn’t feel responsible, as my ‘head’, to control my behavior. There are no instructions of how to be a head of a family in real life and my husband would lean toward the extra fanatical application of things. That’s his personality. But it would not have been an issue if WT didn’t convince him that he had to control all decisions and actions of his wife in order to not be held accountable before God at Armageddon. He felt this responsibility very deeply.
 A couple of examples: Our childbearing years were around the 1975 date. It was drummed into our heads that having children would show a lack of faith in God’s promises, that it was not the time to be having children. However, I desperately wanted children. We did finally have one child in 1983 but I wanted one or two more. We fought about this so much and for so many years. It was horrible. He was so cold hearted about his refusal. I thought of leaving but of course, as a good JW, leaving your husband in those days was not an option! He’s not much of a communicator so he never came out and said that WT had a lot to do with his decision, so I just thought he as a horrible, heartless person. When I left the org., I realized how much he was influenced by them and that he was a victim as well. That helped me to finally start to let go of the hurt and anger.
 Another issue was finances. He was convinced that to try to make enough money to have savings and a good life style was materialistic. Armageddon was coming in the next few months!!! So why paint the Titanic? He passed up some wonderful business opportunities to ‘simplify’, as WT says to do. We potentially lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now he’s close to retirement and we’re trying to scrape together enough cash to prevent our utilities from being shut off! We have nothing for retirement because we followed instructions from the GB and put our lives on hold because we were ‘so close to the end’.
These things and other issues drove a terrible wedge between us and just about destroyed our marriage. So NO! I don’t think WT creates good marriages. In these and in many other ways, as you mentioned, they destroy marriages!
 One other thing I wanted to comment on was how WT misapplies Matthew 10:35,36. First all, he said nothing about coming between a husband and wife. And if you read the context, he was speaking about a time of persecution and how your own family could possibly betray you to authorities. He was not speaking about every day life. He did say to put him first, but the problem is that most of what the GB says Jesus wants us to do and thus we must throw our family away for, is simply the GB’s twist on his words and is not scriptural. They paint anyone who does not agree with them as mentally diseased apostates! If that won’t cause problems in a marriage when one person leaves WT, nothing will. And they blame the person who left, not their false teachings and policies. They are causing the problem, not the person who finally had the courage to stand up for what they’ve come to see is right. They seem to have skipped over the verses in Proverbs 6;16-19 where it says that one of the seven things that God hates the most is ‘anyone sowing contentions among brothers’!
It was helpful to read what you experienced as the mate of someone who left the org. I’ll keep these things in mind when dealing with my husband. I know he has had to field many, many questions about me and why I don’t come anymore. I know people are bewildered why someone who had been a witness for over 40 years wants nothing to do with it anymore. He comes home from an assembly with a list of all the many ‘friends’ who want him to say to hi to me for them. And who knows what the elders ask about me. It must be very unpleasant for him, being put on the spot over and over again, and I try to keep that in mind. And as your husband did, I don’t try to stop or oppose him. I don’t want him to do that to me so I don’t do it to him. But on the rare occasions he has brought the subject up, I have answered honestly and held nothing back.
 I’m very happy for you and your husband that you both ‘get it’. As I mentioned, I feel my marriage has improved with just one of us leaving. I hope so much that he’ll just wake up one day. I can’t imagine how great that would be and the positive effect that would have on our marriage!
 Guess I just needed to vent! Take care.
 Mara
Reply
 
 
 Searchinglad says:

 November 28, 2015 at 10:52 am
 
I broke down in tears…. I informed my wife I have major doubts just this past Monday. She does not know I’m mentally out.
 Her reaction was sobbing and saying I ruined our perfect marriage…. And this is only because of questions that I said I had and after stressing I have no intentions of leaving her. I, me, personally am at fault for ruining our marriage??? Some how because I want to use my brain I am being tricked by Satan himself and are the cause of our marriage breaking down. Not the organization that trained her, brainwashed her, to react that way….
I fear what happens when she finds out I’m mentally out as well and start making moves to physically remove myself. Her father is very authorative and will make moves to get her and my kids to move away.
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 Anonymous says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:07 am
 
I can relate to your feelings.
 After thorough investigation to strengthen my faith, I concluded that I had to leave JW.
 When I told my wife some weeks ago, her reaction was the same. The shock is so big, she doesn’t know if we can stay together.
Just be the best husband ever. As the bible says, your spouse can be won/converted without words, but by your behaviour.
 That’s my strategy for now.
 Don’t argue with her about your differences, it will drive you apart. Focus on loving her, I am confident the rest will work out in time.
Good luck!
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 eyes opened says:

 November 28, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
Wonderful attitude! I wish you success.
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 eyes opened says:

 November 28, 2015 at 1:49 pm
 
Good advice from anonymous. I wish you success, searchinglad. Sorry I didn’t make it clear.
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 Jane Redwood says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:38 am
 
The shock is great at first. When he told me, I flipped out. I was crying. I saw my future everlasting life with my mate vanish. I was crushed. I even selfishly worried about how we couldnt have gatherings anymore. Just be patient. Giver her time. And try to spend quality time with her. We walked every night. See my other reply below. Keep us updated. Hang in there.
I never thought I would leave. We were both born-in and very active. I pioneered for years and aux pioneered for years. My faith was who I was. But I did. 1 year later.
Kindly- Jane
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 JB Reezner says:

 November 28, 2015 at 1:19 pm
 
Searchinglad, what a tough situation. Anonymous’ advice sounds exactly right. I say flood her with assurances that you love her and don’t want to lose her or the kids, and that you have no intentions of impeding her spiritual pursuits. Maybe eventually add: There are many things about the Org that you believe simply could not be true if it had the backing of a wise and loving God. However, although you hope she asks you one day about those things, you don’t intend to try to sabotage her faith.
I don’t know. It “looks good on paper” anyway. I’ve never been in that situation, so please at least accept my moral support. I wish you the best (and you too, Anonymous).
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 Anonymous says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
I just quit, my wife didn’t.
 She really is heartbroken but wants to fight for our marriage.
 Hopefully in one year she’ll be in the same position that you are now…
Reply
 
 Jane Redwood says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:31 am
 
I hope so, too. I was heartbroken when my husband quit. I broke down in tears for weeks. I would cry in my car after the meetings before returning home. I was overwhelmed by how many would ask about him or all of the advice given. The best thing that helped me wake up is that we walked almost every night. We talked. He never attacked the organization. He was humble. On many occasions he said that he may be wrong and hoped he was wrong and if I could prove it, he would listen. I began to research their literature. He would very carefully mention how he felt. I encouraged him to talk to me. I knew it was his feelings and he had a right to feel how he did. He said he was taking two steps back from religion and the organization. But he never shoved any apostate information down my throat. Rather he encouraged me to go to the meetings. Even when I started waking up, he didnt want me to quit for him. I had to be sure. So I would not be bitter. The first thing that happened is I wasn’t being invited out or included and I was very active. And when I saw that my husband lost all of his friends of 47 years without any concern, it affected me – even the elders did not visit. A ton of things I kept to myself. The elders even asked me if they should come, when and what should they say. Really? As a victim of abuse by a JW mother, I was affected by him telling me about the Candace Conti case. I looked up the court documents as they were not apostate. It was a kick-in-the-gut to learn the two witness rule, that left me being abused, was a policy and not a mistake by my local, elderly brothers.
I hope this helps give you some ideas. If you have a FB acct (or set one up with an alias as we did) feel free to friend us or message us for advice. John Redwood would love to give some tips.
As you can see, I have more to say and will continue to share so as to assist ones that left and still have a mate “in” the organization.
Kindly – Jane
Reply
 
 
 
 Born 2B Free says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:03 am
 
This really hits a nerve. My life has been shredded by JW meddling in my marriages. If my opinions differed from that of the elders, or whatever congregation members were making the most noise at the moment, they would go around me and tell my wife to act in harmony with their wishes, and not to cooperate with me.
A friend is currently having a rough time in his marriage and they refuse to help in any way because the elders had advised him against getting married and, in their eyes, he put himself beyond help by disobeying the elders.
It’s ludicrous and entirely unscriptural. They don’t respect marriage, and they don’t respect the family. The only thing that matters anymore is their stupid “elder arrangement” which they have convinced themselves lends the weight of Divine decree to every bit of counsel the elders give, no matter how ill-conceived or uninformed.
Sadly, many times they try to impose their opinions in areas that are far beyond the knowledge they possess. Many elders are simple working class people of limited education. I don’t have a problem with that at all, but they should realize that getting the national average number of field service hours per month and being appointed as elders does not give them any special insights into treating depression (a rampant near-pandemic in the organization), alcoholism, marital problems, etc. While I claim no more than a layman’s knowledge of psychology, even a cursory study of psych’ reveals that much of the elder’s “loving counsel” is laughably ignorant of the complexities involved in counseling.
When I was divorced, I asked an elder to help facilitate communication and, hopefully, save a marriage. He would not so much as make a phone call. Elders frequently will resort to saying that they hesitate for act for fear that they may be supporting me in erroneous behavior. Nothing like pulling your head into your shell and avoiding taking a stand on anything. Cowards!
Much like the author of this article, my greatest regret is the fact that I didn’t get out sooner. The toll in grief, emotional pain, the costs of divorce and the frustrations of being treated unjustly tore my life apart a the seams and, even now, my relationship with my family is hindered and I live alone in this world; in great part because of the “loving counsel” of “God’s organization”.
Reply
 
 
 Thinking of leaving says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:36 am
 
Re tara = I read your post with interest. Although I have never been married I have to say my experience to fading was the exact opposite to your daughters. I walked out the door just on 2.5 years ago after 40 years of been a loyal publisher. Not one elders visit and only 3 cong members could be bothered to knock on my door and find out how I was. Mind you 2 of those 3 people who visited they were out out in FS – so I guess go figure. Although I wanted nothing more to do with the religion (due to my research on the internet), I had never verbally expressed this and was just seen as an inactive publisher. It just strikes me as odd just to the lack of follow up they showed. Well Tara that was my experience with the JWs. Every time I hear of people been harassed and unwelcome visits I always like to mention this.
Reply
 
 Jane Redwood says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:48 am
 
That has been our experience, too. John left two years ago and myself, one. We just walked out, same as you. Not one visit from an elder. I was surprised. They didn’t even bring us the brochure this summer.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 28, 2015 at 2:02 pm
 
I was actually shunned the whole time my daughter was df’d. No one came to visit me until she was reinstated and then they started to come knocking… hypocrites that they are. In past posts I have given an account of things that happened plus the ‘oh we came to see how you are… oh by the way is it true you went to your df’d sons wedding’. They don’t care, they want dirt. I stayed home this am and went into a back room with the tv up and my granddaughter to play with. If they knocked I didn’t hear them. Just made sure the door was locked.
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 covertfade says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:42 am
 
Jane, thanks so much for sharing your experience.
It highlights once again the difference between what the “official” line on a certain teaching might be (Marriage is sacred, stick with your unbelieving mate) and what the actual reality is in witness culture (So your mate is no longer a witness? Hmm, might want to pull the eject handles on that relationship.)
I’m very glad you and your husband were able to come through this intact. I had to leave behind a girl I was dating and had pretty much fallen in love with when I left the bOrg. I was willing to be with someone who had different religious beliefs to mine. Her, not so much, but I know that sadly this choice came from the brainwashing and not the person she was inside.
It’s sickening to think of how many broken relationships could still be whole and happy if it wasn’t for this cult. :(
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 Jeffreycanning says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:00 pm
 
Oh yeah! Don’t we all wish we left earlier…
Reply
 
 
 Mikeinkona says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:13 pm
 
Thank you very much for writing your life story Jane. And thanks to Jerry and Phoenix and others. The common stories we share are enough to make anyone cry. The devastation that results when an organization and its rules and perceptions are held higher than the human needs we all have, is inevitable. I wish I could share all these posts as well as Janes heartfelt experience with my family. I cannot. My mom, wife,( ex) and my kids are blinded as to the truth of what has happened to them. I also, have lost all. Thank god ( just an expression ) I have a few caring people in my life. The woman who I am now with is loving and kind and does not just love me based on my beliefs or religion. I also feel like way too many years went by before extricating myself from this bankrupt cult. I knew things didn’t add up some nice I was a young man. I always bought into the party line…Jah sees all and will fix things in his own time. Oh well..in the meantime way too many good families are ruined. Born in JWs are not raised to know how to handle real life. We are at a disadvantage. It’s good to know that we all are not alone. But…shared bad experiences are still bad experiences. I wish you all well and a good recovery from this mind numbing, careless and judge mental cult. Let’s keep supporting each other. It’s good to feel the compassion and love. Aloha
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 Sixpack says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:29 pm
 
As a faded hidden elder this struck a real cord with me as I saw so many trying to use the spiritual engagement as an excuse to leave husbands.
To me as someone who didn’t grow up in the cult I can safely say this religion hates marriage, especially of it’s not with two witnesses.
Thank you for sharing your story.
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 JB Reezner says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:34 pm
 
Great article, Jane. I’m glad to know that things have worked out well for you and your husband, in spite of the barrage of attacks on your marriage.
Losing one’s ability to think rationally is such a sad part of cult indoctrination. I mean, even apart from the faulty belief system that’s inserted into one’s mind, a person’s GENERAL thinking ability and judgment can become so terribly stunted as the rational part of the mind erodes. As a result, even when the cult’s own doctrine doesn’t prescribe some illogical conclusion, or some irrational, destructive course of action, the individual’s mind already leans in that direction.
And then, there’s that other thing. The fact that a high percentage of cult members “wouldn’t have the sense God gave a goose” whether they ended up in a cult or not. (All present company on this site excluded, of course.) Those can really be some of the most dangerous ones. I’m sure we’ve all seen far too many stupid people in positions of authority hurt vulnerable, powerless JWs. Ugg, this cult has got to go.
Reply
 
 
 Willy says:

 November 28, 2015 at 1:28 pm
 
The Watchtower changes regular people from human to emotionless drones that don’t care about all the bad that others endure. During a Thanksgiving Meal not one person mentioned Syria, Middle Eastern-Russian Crisis, the Belgian-French Massacre. All they said was:”
“Dear Jehovah please watch over your people all over the Earth, please help those taking a lead in the preaching and please watch over the Governing Body.”.
We had Average Jerry who committed adultery four times, and Daisy, she figured out how to drive all her men away once she tired of them or got bored. Jerry and Daisy both enjoyed privileges “holding microphones”, “lead builder”, “finance Kingdom Hall Big Dog” yet both of these Witnesses were the most wicked spouses ever. There’s a lot of Witnesses who stay together even though they hate each other, loveless fake relationships because their afraid of losing their social status these creeps think they have!
The Elders overlooked one Elder’s indiscretions for decades, he and his wife had seven kids and after using her up and boldly proclaiming his “undying love” by running off with a 24 year old Pioneer. Since he was so good at gardening the Kingdom Hall Complex, his punishment was short, less than a shoplifter or teen who confessed to smoking weed!
Only in the Jehovah Witness Religion can someone commit one of the worst sins and get back quicker than others who did not, divorce is prevalent and the poor sisters are left with such a poor gene pool of defective men! back among our ranks in one year. Only Jehovah’s Witnesses are the religion I’ve noticed on my four decades on Earth that must tell themselves constantly “we have the truth!”. Their marriage life shows the opposite, their treatment of family and friends defy’s all logic to believe if Jesus was around he would want a group of greedy, miserable and pitiful creatures so mentally disturbed!
Add in how bad this religion is for mates who think, ones who use their brain! One mate who uses the Bible and words of old Watchtowers to prove its a Scam, that puts lots of pressure on already fragile JW relationships. Keep up your good work, your articles are busting, making cracks inside the Watchtower’s bronze-clay feet. Your site plus aided by so many Internet truths is turning most Witness kids away from religion entirely and JWs wanting to please their religious messiahs put additional stress on the martial bonds when one of the mates are willing to cut-off their child after decades of love. Thank you for writing such a touching article of truth!
Reply
 
 
 jeff canning says:

 November 28, 2015 at 2:10 pm
 
And one more thing… I was in a bad marriage, overseer knew of it, told visiting District Overseer, he had a quiet word with me out witnessing one day he said ‘Hang in there it will all be over soon and to illustrate he told me how the Brothers at Bethel (Australia) were gathering names of Brothers who work in the utilities so they can make a smooth transition when the end comes in (Months now not years) and the power and water won’t go off… that was around 1974ish. Glad I didn’t take his advice I been remarried and totally happy now for twenty years. Why did we ever listen to these clowns?
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 dee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:04 am
 
“……..he told me how the Brothers at Bethel (Australia) were gathering names of Brothers who work in the utilities so they can make a smooth transition when the end comes in (Months now not years) and the power and water won’t go off……”
Always did wonder how those JW Armageddon survivors were going to manage……
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 isawthelight says:

 November 28, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
Don’t let a cult break up anyone’s marriage.They have this nonsense that one leaves Jehovah when they stop going to meetings.They have it WRONG. When one stops going to meetings he or she is leaving the cult,not Jehovah.They put Jehovah in it because they want you to think otherwise.Its not Jehovah. Jehovah is not even involved with their nonsense.Remember it is them that says the orgination is the channel of God.No one else says it.They say it because they are trying to even convince themselves.That is the way a cult operates. They heap praises on themselves because no one else does.They are a homebreaking cult. CASE CLOSED.
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 Bill Hahn says:

 November 28, 2015 at 2:47 pm
 
Excellent article Jane. I was in Johns position and the Elders forced a seperation which broke our family.
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 John says:

 November 28, 2015 at 3:42 pm
 
Thank you so much for writing this article. I’m so proud of you and your husband. I’m in the same situation. I woke up about 2 years ago but my wife is still a firm beleiver. I’m following your husband’s example in trying to be the most loving and understanding husband I can. I still am a very morally upright person and I respect my wife’s choice to believe in what she wants. Unfortunately I don’t think she’ll ever come around. But that doesn’t change the fact that our marriage is better than it ever has been
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 28, 2015 at 3:46 pm
 
Thanks Jane for your hard work on this piece and sharing your experience.
My how the Borg changes. My father was THE congregation servant in the 1950s.(there was only one “elder” per congregation.
Back then wife’s could only separate for an adulterous mate. As such, one sister in the hall and her kids received beatings and endless abuse by the husband……my father told her to separate but he was going against the organization… they couldn’t separate…..but eventually did…
Ahhhhhhhhh……….. BUT the light got brighter and then there were several reasons you mentioned for separation . How many women were beaten or killed because of the watchtower’s BS policies?
Common sense never trumps the GB. And the light always gets brighter.
 I live for the fall of this cult.
Glad you made it out.
 Breath the free air.
 It’s wonderful.
 Garrett
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 Chiafade says:

 November 29, 2015 at 9:36 am
 
Yes the damage is done and the organization never once APOLOGIZED for their erroneous ludicrous policies.
A mate HAD to be adulterous there were no other grounds for divorce. Even worse is that adultery was defined as a man sleeping with a woman. Vaginal intercourse ONLY. Which means that he could have anal intercourse with man or woman or have sex with a beast and she had no grounds for divorce.
I made a whole file on these ridiculous definitions from watchtower. Sick sick SICK stuff.
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 Jacqueline says:

 November 28, 2015 at 3:57 pm
 
It is always the witnesses off behavior and comments that awakens many. They don’t realize they are off. Why would you speak in another person’s marriage? I never allowed anyone to ask or say anything to me about my husband.
 It got you out of that system. I am happy for you. Thank you for sharing an intimate part of your life with us. Enjoy yourselves and stick together.
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 Debbie smith says:

 November 28, 2015 at 6:30 pm
 
Great article. I’m happy for you both.
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 Sheree says:

 November 28, 2015 at 7:00 pm
 
While not exactly the same as my situation, there are many commonalities. I became a JW in my late teens while still living with my non-JW parents. Of course, this caused a lot of tension in my family and often I would feel I was being persecuted by my none-too-thrilled parents. It is also a peculiarity of being a teenager that one feels one’s parents are being unfair, so I had a double whammy of issues with my parents.
 I lived with my parents for most of my 20s too. I couldn’t even begin to remember how many times people in my congregation told me things like “Satan is speaking through your mother,” or “Satan is using your parents to try to discourage you…” and I distinctly remember the worst instances: how at one midweek meeting I’d had an argument with Mum before going to the meeting and I was telling a brother about it and he said, “Oh well, Armageddon is coming soon and your mother will die and you’ll be rid of her.”
I stormed away from him in shock. That, of course, was the worst instance, but the many years I was with my parents were peppered with instances similar to what the author has experienced.
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 Winston Smith says:

 December 2, 2015 at 1:24 pm
 
@Sheree,
 It always amazes me how JW’s can so casually suggest that so many are slated for death. They even joke about it. Some drive through the more well off neighborhoods and fantasize about taking up residence in some of the large homes after the current residents are killed at Armageddon. They are so callous.
 Didn’t they ever read in the scriptures to love even your enemies? They have dehumanized all non-JW’s (and ex-JW’s too) which allows such a callous attitude. It is all too similar to the way Jews were dehumanized in Nazi Germany.
WS
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 Enuffsenuff says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:03 pm
 
The following is my wife’s experience. (I had my own troubles with elders, including being marked, writing letters about me that were false, ad infinitum)
 She writes; My personal experience with Elders getting involved in my marriage is shocking. For 12 years I and my then spouse would end up in front of the Elders because of his violence in dealing with myself and my children. Every two years we would go and the Elders would “counsel” him about his tendency for violent fits of anger. At the end of that time the Police got involved and still I called the Elders to come help me. They arrived about 10 minutes before the Police and were witnesses to his arrest. Fortunately where I lived the Police automatically place a violence protection order/restraining order in place whether you want it or not. I specifically remember a Police Woman standing in front of me and she said, “You know it will only get worse. Do not remove this restraining order.” I thought about the previous 12 years and could see that she was right. It was getting worse. All those meetings with Elders produced nothing. A few weeks after his arrest my children and I went before the Elders to give witness to my now ex’s violence and abuse. Towards the end of our meeting, the Elders asked me to go to court and have the restraining order removed so they could help us “mend our marriage.” I was shocked that they would even ask since two of the 3 men were at my house when he was arrested. I told them “No, I can’t do that. If I do that he will be back in my home within 3 weeks and the same things would start all over again.” They told me that they only way they would help me is if I dropped the order since they didn’t want to violate the order by being a “go between”. Again I told them no. They concluded by telling me and my children they would not help us. And that is just what happened. They stopped talking to me or my children and even went as far as telling me not to come to the meetings if I had been crying because several found it distressing to see me so upset.
Never, never, never allow the Elders to get involved in your business. Later as I was relating to my Dad what the Elders had said, he told me (he had been an Elder for many years) “I am glad you didn’t drop it and are getting a divorce. I have been afraid for years that he was gonna kill you one day.” Now, I am happily married to a wonderful man and he and I, together, have faded from the Org. There are other even more complicated reasons that add to why that is so. But that’s for another day.
Reply
 
 
 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:09 pm
 
I was reluctant to comment on this thread–not my cup of tea, but I will give some over-arching insights, namely, the “JW Commune of the Mind”. JW pride does not permit and counters with “we’re not a cult–we’re normal!! (obsession with appearing normal)
Just look how we get married and have kids??” Lord, Lord, did we not marry and multiply in your name?
 However, if I trace parallel lines and line-up the Fundamental LDS (Jeffs), Islam, conservative fringe Christian churches and JW’s, I find one common trait–subservient requirement from women, right down to the requirement for head-covering. It may not be a burka, but many JW women and ultra-conservative Christian women will cover their head in church/KH, or while conducting/attending services.
Underlining the tone of subservient women, I note that the women mentioned above were most “presumptious” in doling out advice–sort of like they were “women elders”? Perhaps the men-elders let their women-folk run amuck in this congregation (haven’t quite mastered the art of bare-knuckle dragging through the kingdom hall aisles)? Also note that special pioneers and other women are undoubtedly translating their pent-up sexual energies into full-time service; in short, there is something unspoken behind their eagerness to see the breakup of a marriage–another single female means less pitiful stares in their direction (“poor spinster, dear, can’t hold onto a man”). Dare I get in touch with my female-side and mention the Hollywood film (the classic or the remake) “The Women” where an ambitious female orchestrates a breakup of a marriage to be outclassed by other females to reunite the couple? In this case, Jane would have left her husband, the husband by some strange coincidence returns to the Faith, one of these “spinsters” picks him off from the penitence pew, and Jane is left wandering what the h—?
Another facet of this, is the once-and-often highlighted dichotomy in Witness thinking–much to the delight of agnostics and atheist–where Jesus speaks of uniting families, and the Watchtower goes gangbusters with this, then Jesus contradicts and states He is here to divide families. Pretty ballsy of the Watchtower to put it in the same article for any family court attorney to pickup on it.
In this tale of woe and triumph here, the elders were doing their part as KGB henchmen while the neighborhood block leaders (“sisters”) seemed to be all over the map with self-serving advice.
In conclusion,


Reply
 
 
 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 28, 2015 at 9:49 pm
 
Thanks Jane for sharing your personal but unfortunately not unusual and rare experience of life behind the curtain as JW.
 Glad that all worked well at the end in your case in hope your article will help many in similar situation.
 Ice is melting and global warming is real thus leadership of “our corrupt and unfaithful org.” loosing their footprint” thanks to site like this and articles like yours.
 Best regards and big hugs
Reply
 
 
 vigilante consapevole says:

 November 28, 2015 at 11:32 pm
 
http://www.zions.club/cosa/2015/09/06/039-cosa-vuol-dire-sposarsi-solo-nel-signore/
Reply
 
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 29, 2015 at 12:03 am
 
@phoenix_rising
WOW!! What a nightmarish example of KGB-style BRAINWASHING, coercion and undue influence!! No offence dude, but your wife is obviously a weak-minded Bimbo and you’re probably better off without her. Though in all sincerity I do hope she comes to her senses.
 I posted earlier about comparisons of WT, to totalitarianism as well as to George Orwell’s allegorical novel “1984.” Don’t know if you’ve read it (synopsis on Wikipedia) but your experience reflects the story of the 2 main characters almost to a T (except for the threat of torture). Trust me though, your experience is not unique, in or out of the Watchtower Society. I have experienced a similar situation in “the World” (though I wasn’t actually married to the person). I can see how it went down, though. Just use simple “Alpha Male” psychology…You were being a “good guy,” having folks over for BBQs, movies and whatever, “sharing the wealth” so to speak. Naturally, this made you popular. Oh oh! Red Flag! Popular is no good in JW.borg if you’re just one of the peons! Only the elders (and their wives and kids) get to be the “Big Dogs”! Not to mention Mister Big Shot Superhero Circuit Overseer! Those Major Jerks obviously were threatened by your popularity, generosity and overall decency, and found a way to UNDERMINE you through the COWARD’s favorite technique: MOB CHARACTER ASSASSINATION.
 In conclusion, the Devil with them, and, I’m sorry brother, but if your wife doesn’t shape up, the Devil with her too — the INGRATE.
Reply
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 29, 2015 at 12:18 am
 
P.S.
As for Mr. Bigshot CO’s comment calling you a “Good-time Charlie” or whatever (whatever that is supposed to mean), it is in fact the Elders, Circuit Overseers, District Overseers, Governing Body, etc. who get a FREE RIDE through life, almost continuously enjoying a “Good Time,” living in comfort and luxury, eating the best food, being treated like Royalty and having their asses wiped EVERYWHERE they go, with the folks in the trenches paying for it all!!!!!!!!!
 So to Mister BIGSHOT, I say: The DEVIL with YOU, YOU BREATHTAKING HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!
Reply
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 29, 2015 at 12:29 am
 
P.P.S.
Sticking your fat nose, your filthy fingers, and your stinking paws into other people’s lives tends to result in all those, and many other, appendages, being involuntarily amputated.
Reply
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 29, 2015 at 12:43 am
 
P.P.P.S.
@phoenix_rising
You concluded by mentioning that the elders never showed you proper respect — Is that so surprising, in that one who does not respect oneself, is incapable of respecting anyone else?
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 November 29, 2015 at 3:32 pm
 
This is how our story went when we woke up.
Me (crying): I’m so depressed with this religion, I can’t pretend anymore. I don’t believe this s@*t anymore. I’m sorry but it has so many ridiculous teachings that are conflicting with the Bible & I might as well have stayed a Catholic. I don’t want to stop you from being a Witness but honey I can’t do this anymore. I’m so sorry, please don’t let me affect your faith.
( I hadn’t read any apostate stuff at this stage)
My Hubby: I know you’ve been unhappy for years now. Every time we get ready for the meeting you suddenly get sick & I haven’t pushed you. I see the hypocrisy too & I don’t know how to fix it for us but I don’t want to stop believing in Jehovah. I’m going to stop going to the meetings for a while so that I can think things through.
We stopped going for about 3 weeks, he stepped down as MS & told the Elders that he wants a break from the meetings to sort out his family (me). They came in 2’s over the next few weeks trying to “shepherd” us (8 all up). By this stage I started to read lots of Apostate stuff & bought Combatting Mind Control, the thing that stood out to me with the book was the lying as I had seen so many Witnesses lie over the years & it’s the one thing that irked me.
The shepherding visits got a little heated at times because I threw all of my doubts to them (who is our mediator? the 2 witness rule? no beards, why? do non JW’s prayers get answered?). I kept the questions simple to see how honest they would be with their replies. I wanted my husband to see it for himself. I eventually told the Elders that they were treating me like a naive householder & that they were not telling truthful answers to my questions.
I would say that I was marked after that because no one came around, all friendships ceased & I was avoided when I was out & about. My best friend wrote me an email to end the friendship in the nicest possible way.
Meanwhile, they would take the opportunity to get hubby by himself, going to his work to try to con him in to going back but he could see through the BS by this stage. He said to me; “I never noticed before how much Witnesses lie & they don’t even realise that they’re doing it.” This was after we read Combatting Mind Control together & had discussed the lying a fair bit.
Another thing that happened was one of Elders & his wife came to help us (we were close to). I could tell her eyes were gazing around the house to see if I had something satanic around the house but I didn’t say anything so I just let that drop. Later, when we were talking she mentioned something about my hubby still wanting to serve Jehovah so I said to her that I am not going to come between anyone & their faith, even my hubby but I will not let this religion come between my family at the same time. She knew how serious I was with my eyes.
The rest just fell into place & now we say to each other on regular basis that were so glad we’re out. It just took stepping back & looking at the big picture without the bombardment.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 29, 2015 at 4:36 pm
 
Great story, Grace! I look forward to these happy endings becoming more common as the Org continues to unravel before the very eyes of its members– and the rest of the world. And give Hubby our best, as always.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 November 29, 2015 at 8:13 pm
 
Thanks JB,
He said to say hi back.
Love your comments BTW.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 29, 2015 at 5:55 pm
 
Yes the society messes family up and messes couples up and ruins marriages. My sister’s son-in-law is disfellowshipped. He is bi-polar. This is the third time he has been disfellowshipped for the same thing, alcoholism. In the past he has tried to commit suicide. He barely survived that. But he is alive. He is manic depressed. I’ve never seen anyone so depressed. I notice it is as if my sister is turning her back on her daughter as well as her son-in-law because that is her daughter’s husband. My sister said to me she wont have nuttin’ to do with him. I told her she needs to keep communication open with her daughter about her son-in-law and keep her ears open in case her daughter may need help. Brain washed JWs are so stupid. Their common sense is taken away. Jesus Christ didn’t hate the people who were misled but he sure did hate the people doing the misleading. (pharasees) I’m frustrated with my sister. She chooses to be blind. She chooses to be manipulated. She wants to be controlled. The GB are idiots and that makes my sister a moron for listening to them.
Reply
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 30, 2015 at 3:26 am
 
Excellent point. There are too many people (and btw they don’t hafta be JW’s!) who do WANT to be controlled and brainwashed. It’s easier. Just let someone(s) else do all your thinking and life-decision-making for you. It’s easier and it FEELS safer and SEEMS less risky. What those FOOLS don’t realize is that the boneheads to whom they have handed over their lives to, are no smarter or wiser or knowledgeable or capable or competent than themselves. That’s why their “leaders” resort to spinning FAIRY TALES to lead the “sheep” by their noses. SAPS!
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:02 pm
 
Excellent points Anonymous4. It’s a case of the “blind leading the blind.”
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 November 29, 2015 at 6:53 pm
 
Why Reduce the Number of Special Full-Time Servants? (http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODStudio/pub-jwbrd_201511_4_VIDEO)
Hello. Special Full-Time Servants (Bethelites, Special Pioneers, etc). The above video states the reasons for Watchtower is laying off brothers and sisters from full-time service. The Watchtower Construction work is the primary focus of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Preaching is second place. Can you believe this? Does this sound like something Jesus Christ would promote? Watchtower claims they will be sizing down construction projects. I know a project they need to size down. That is the Warwick project. This massively expensive project is huge expenditure for Watchtower. In addition, Watchtower claims that they have branches that are over 30 years old and need to be replaced. For real? Many people live in houses that are between 30 – 90 years old establishments. Buildings in large cities are over 100 years old and businesses are able to work just fine in those establishments.
There are a couple of reasons why Watchtower has been having financial difficulties. Number one, is global construction projects. A home or business is the number one big purchases a human being can buy. The second is an automobile. The second reason is the high volume of legal lawsuits that are entering American court systems due to child abuse. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are the number one violator of child abuse. Over a 1,000 cases globally. These lawsuit settlements are taking a huge bite out of the financial stability of Watchtower.
But, is that the mistatke of Full-time servants? Absolutely not! The Full-time servants have spent countless of hours devoted to Jehovah God. Some have decades of faithful service and the reward of such great efforts is Watchtower layoffs and a that-a-boy/girl from the Governing Body. They also want you to pray for Jehovah’s help.
According to Watchtower, building of buildings is a form of sacred service. I have not heard of a building knocking on doors. A physical building does not talk to people. People talk to people. Personally, I feel that Watchtower’s construction is “dead works”. Also, this building work is a never ending dilema. With a 30 year construction cycle, it is never ending.
If you agree with above statments. It is time for you Ex-Full-Time servants to take control of your life and move forward in a skill taught by a local community college or technical institution. If you need some help in finding a skill, please take a personality test and match the personality with a job. Make sure the job is relevant and in high demand. Most community colleges have guidance counselers that can assist in administrating a personality test.
Also, there are some great books out there to take self-assement personality tests for finding a skill, they are “What Color Is Your Parachute? 2016: A Practical Manual for Job-Hunters and Career-Changers” (http://goo.gl/ePg3KW), “Do What You Are: Discover the Perfect Career for You Through the Secrets of Personality Type” (http://goo.gl/91RKOi), “The Pathfinder: How to Choose or Change Your Career for a Lifetime of Satisfaction and Success” (http://goo.gl/tGBWoB)
Now is the time for you brothers and sisters to become a regular publisher and pursue your goals.
Reply
 
 

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← The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”
The trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn’t put you off being one) →
 
The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond?
avatar 
Posted on November 28, 2015

Jehovah's Witnesses pride themselves on esteeming the sanctity of marriage. But is this true in all circumstances?
Jehovah’s Witnesses pride themselves on esteeming the sanctity of marriage. But is this true in all circumstances?

This time last year, I began my exit from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. My fade towards inactivity did not go unnoticed.
A few fellow believers and friends approached me with a strong warning: “Be careful.  Satan is working through your husband to discourage you from serving Jehovah.”
Why would they jump to such a harsh conclusion? Was he a violent man, physically prohibiting me from attending meetings?  Did he yell at me with a raised voice discouraging me from preaching? Did he berate me over my faith, pushing apostate ideas instead of Bible truths?
The answer to all such questions is a resounding “no!” He was the same kind, loving, hard-working, honest moral man I had married. The only thing that had changed was that he, one year prior, had left the religion of his youth, without any wrongdoing, discipline or explanation.
His exit triggered a change in how fellow believers viewed our relationship. For one year, I was constantly reminded of the danger of having a willful unbeliever as a spouse.
As most did, I believed Jehovah’s people respected the family arrangement, including the marital union, even if one was an unbeliever. Yet, this was not my personal experience. While I sought to find a balance in my new role, I received great pressure to give up and leave my husband.
This left me with questions: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses break up families?  Do they allow for separation on grounds other than adultery? Finally, why would fellow members insist that Satan was making a personal attack against me via my spouse?
To help make sense of what was happening, I engaged in personal research and reflection.
In October 2014, JW.org posed this very question: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Break Up Families or Build Them Up?
This was their answer…

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we work to build up families, both our own and those of our neighbors. … In the Bible, [Jehovah] teaches principles that have helped people around the world to have marriages that are strong and happy.
The article continues by giving experiences showing how mixed-belief families were better off because one mate became a Jehovah’s Witness. The newly converted mate could apply Bible principles to settle conflicts and strengthen the marriage bond.
However, the article goes on to admit that conversion could bring about conflict.

Admittedly, sometimes it does. For example, a 1998 report by the research company Sofres found that 1 out of 20 marriages in which only one mate was a Witness had serious problems when that one converted.
Jesus foretold that those who follow his teachings would at times suffer family strife. (Matthew 10:32-36)
As I read the last paragraph, it felt untruthful; an outright conflict of the behavior and teachings of ones inside the organization (bold is mine).

However, the Witnesses do not encourage their members to separate from a marriage mate who is not a Witness. The Bible says: “If any brother has an unbelieving wife and she is agreeable to staying with him, let him not leave her; and if a woman has an unbelieving husband and he is agreeable to staying with her, let her not leave her husband.” (1 Corinthians 7:12, 13) Jehovah’s Witnesses abide by this command.
Perhaps, if I had never been a witness and my husband had remained an unbeliever, congregation members would have provided me support and treated me differently.  But, alas, no. Because my husband became an unbeliever, willingly and by choice, I received no such support.
Rather, I had to beg the elders for a shepherding call. At the time, I was desperate for some guidance and help. It was the strangest experience.
Quickly, the tone of the meeting turned. The elders tried to pressure me to reveal private details about my mate’s exit from the organization. I refused. They warned me that Satan would try to “shipwreck” my faith through the actions of, and interactions with, my husband.
I needed encouragement and spiritual counsel. To this end, they provided me with a print out from the September 2006 Watchtower entitled, “When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah.”  It described my personal, perceived situation with such descriptive words as deep anguish, devastating, heartbroken and difficult.
The elders tried to confirm this fear by sharing the following excerpt:

So it is not surprising that humans would grieve over the spiritual loss of a beloved relative.
Indeed, the spiritual loss of a loved one is among the most difficult of trials that come upon true worshipers. (Acts 14:22) Jesus said that accepting his message would cause division in some families. (Matthew 10:34-38) This is not because the Bible message of itself causes family division. Rather, unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity.
I left that meeting a wreck, and the badgering from congregation members continued.  Within weeks of him no longer attending meetings or preaching, members of the congregation, including pioneers, elders, and elder’s wives, began to remind me that my marriage was second to my life and dedication to God. Without asking how things were at home, they began to assume my spouse was interfering with spiritual things.
Over and over again, congregation members offered unsolicited advice: “God comes first, so be prepared to separate.” Further, some even offered to help me pack up my belongings.
Not once did I tell anyone he was preventing me from attending meetings, preaching, or living a Christian lifestyle. In fact, he was still in good standing and had not committed any wrongdoing in the eyes of the congregation.
Now, divorce is only allowed if one of the mates commits adultery.  But three extreme circumstances allow for separation.  As explained in the book, “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love” Appendix:
1.Willful Nonsupport
2.Extreme Physical Abuse
3.Absolute Endangerment of Spiritual Life

Absolute endangerment of spiritual life. A spouse may constantly try to make it impossible for the mate to pursue true worship or may even try to force that mate to break God’s commands in some way. In such a case, the threatened mate would have to decide whether the only way to “obey God as ruler rather than men” is to obtain a legal separation.—Acts 5:29.
Yet, this was NOT so in my case.  Why would they try so hard to push me away from my mate?  Truly, I believe it was out of fear that I would begin to awaken and leave off serving Jehovah.
My friends were constantly reminding me that my spiritual life was endangered and the only solution was to separate from my husband.
Sadly, I understood the fear that motivated them.  For most of my life, I was told marriage could only succeed if Jehovah was a part of it.

“Threefold cord” is a figurative expression. (Eccl. 4:12) When applied to marriage, it includes the husband and wife, two strands, who are intertwined with the central strand, God. Being united with God gives a couple the spiritual strength to cope with problems and to achieve happiness.—w08 9/15, page 16.
Truthfully, the fault lies with those issuing instructions and enforcing the teachings while disguising these as helpful advice.
I am glad I listened to my heart and common sense. I am grateful I fought to preserve my marriage in the face of conflict and change.  We spent time together each day, usually walking in the evenings. This helped to bring us closer.
Honestly, it wasn’t until my husband left that we began to have real, honest conversations. This helped me open my eyes to the truth about this harmful organization. I am no longer a blind drone obeying without thought or consequence.
Is my marriage built up? Am I happier now that I can communicate without fear? Do we have more time to spend together, which in turn strengthens our marriage bond?
Yes! My only regret?
That we did not leave sooner.




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← The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”
The trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn’t put you off being one) →
 
172 Responses to The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond?

← Older Comments
 
 James Wittinger says:

 November 29, 2015 at 10:34 pm
 
Who are these nut cases to warn you and suggest you leave your husband? That is disgusting and pre-judging things they know nothing about. You should have told them your husband left because there were too many opinionated bigots in the congregation. Then play dumb and ask them if they know what a prejudiced bigot is. You’re just asking, that’s all. Play dumb. Bury them.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 29, 2015 at 10:40 pm
 
Messing couples up and ruining marriages and they will call it if not mistaken: “Signs of Jesus’ Presence…”! We should not ignore “DIVIDE and RULE” rule which in my opinion has become “Confuse and Rule” in Jehovah’s Organisation.
Is there anyone who think Jehovah’s cherish marriage bond? I am he/she is totally wrong: (Hosea 13:16) . . .Sa·marʹi·a will be held guilty, for she has rebelled against her God. By the sword they will fall, Their children will be dashed to pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.”
How could a god that cherishes marriage bonds and families inspire his “prophets” to write down such bullies… A coward god it must be!!!
Reply
 
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 30, 2015 at 12:25 am
 
Nice article
Here is an important suggestion for anyone when the elders attempt to cause a separation like they did with Zephyr and you are the innocent mate. Get a good lawyer immediately! Do not procrastinate. Have the law office mail the Kingdom hall and the individual elders involved of your intent to sue them for mental an emotional damge due to their slander. Do this before a marking talk is given and warn them that any such talk will be made note of and used as additional evidence.
Know this, the elders will contact the legal department and will get a rude awakening, Watchtower will not back them up. The lawyers in New York are not there for their protection. If the Kingdom hall is at risk, which it should be, depending on the part.of the world you live in, the elders will be told to leave you andy our family alone.
There is zero reason to be victimized by these idiots. They play on people’s ignorance of.the law. Yes, they have freedom to practice religion, and freedom.of speech. They also have accountability for their actions. The quickest way to stop any and all of there tactics is by using the laws that are designed to protect us from these types of things.
Please understand I know exactly their reaction, I put them through this and know from 2 of the elders 1 who is now a happy apostate. They were told to leave me alone and do nothing. The elder who is now a close friend was was shocked and angry when told that any of their actions if they were sued would fall on him and the other elders. WT wanted nothing to do with it. That was the beginning of his fade.
Please spread the word. There doesn’t have to be any more victims of elders prying, meddling and breaking up families.
PS In an earlier time when a man tried to take another man’s wife, he would get the h*!! beat out of him. The threat of legal action is the nicest and most civilized way to handle it.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 30, 2015 at 2:43 am
 
Does that apply in UK?
Reply
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 30, 2015 at 3:40 am
 
Most good attorneys will provide you with a free initial consultation to consider the merits of your individual case. The laws in the UK and the US governing slander and libel are very clear. They do provide for injunctive relief (order to cease talking about you) from the one slandering you and financial restitution for both the cost of litigation as well as financial loss.
WT has no interest in dealing with the ignorant rants of local elder bodies nor getting in numerous legal battles over Ex JWs leaving the borg. It is far easier for them to leave you alone than face possible punitive damages for allowing a BOE to harass you.
In the end, remember 2 things.
1. JW’s have no authority in the country where you live, other than the authority you willingly give them. No one outside JWs care what the WT or BOE have to say.
2. Their decisions and especially any type of lying or wrongful meddling falls directly under the courts of the UK. The courts do have authority over WT, the BOE and all of its citizens. That authority cannot be ignored. Most BOEs do not readily acknowledge this due to ignorance. However, they get whipped into shape quickly by Watchtower, because Watchtower definitely knows this to be true.
Know this, Watchtower is not as concerned with financial loss as they are having to apologize for bad policy. Look at how they defend the indefensible in the child molestation cases rather than providing apologies and seeking to improve their arbitrary rules.
You can be certain that elders talk to much about judicial matters with their wives and their wives talk to much to others. WT knows this all to well and does not want to have their club exposed and the whole system reworked as it was in the 1970s.
Elders who meddle will stop immediately when faced with legal action, make no mistake about it.
PS laws in the UK only allow 1 year from the date of the slander or libel for you to file your case.
Best Wishes
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 30, 2015 at 3:47 am
 
Thank you for that practical advice. You’re right, in days gone by, things were settled a little more directly and efficiently. :) In today’s Age of Enlightenment, if you bopped someone in the nose for sticking it in your affairs, YOU are the “BAD GUY”!!! LOL…LMAO…LMAOOL :) :) :)
 P.S. Jehovah’s Witness Elders & Overseers really are nothing but a mob of meddling busybodies. Someone suggested they all go out and ‘get a job’. Wiser advice I have never heard.
 P.P.S. To those who fear dissociating themselves because they’ll lose “friends” and “family”, trust me, speaking from personal experience, YOU’RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM.
Reply
 
 anonymous4 says:

 November 30, 2015 at 3:55 am
 
I meant JW elders & overseers are nothing but a mob of meddling busybodies AND BULLIES.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 30, 2015 at 7:23 am
 
Why should expect from them what they do not have? These untrained people are used as robots through letter to BOE are merely ‘slaves’ who are used by an angered god which regrets to have created man in its image (Genesis 6:6)!!
Reply
 
 
 
 Badshah says:

 November 30, 2015 at 12:17 pm
 
“To those who fear dissociating themselves because they’ll lose “friends” and “family”, trust me, speaking from personal experience, YOU’RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM.”
How would you like to be 60 years old and have to start over again? I face the latter years of my life alone. If I could do things differently, you bet I would.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:26 am
 
@Badash. You are right. Facing the later years alone and making new friend is pretty difficult when you are 60 years old. It is a difficult situation to be in and I feel for you a lot. Maybe you can just fade a little at a time and pop up at meetings once in a while to “SAVE FACE”? I am not sure what the answer is in your situation bc I do not know the entire ordeal but I know it is not easy for you or anyone else in similar situation. My heart goes out to you.
 Maybe get involved with some social or exercise organizations, meet new people, Sports, study at school, prop courses anything different and meet new people. Even a “NORMAL” religion may offer something new. The JW’s and WT will chew you up and spit you out after a lifetime of association if you DARE to have a different view point or see things differently.
Reply
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 December 1, 2015 at 8:54 am
 
I agree with you Badshah…. my first doubts arose when I was 20…I ignored them because I feared my parents…and now I have no one who is not a jw… I really adore my lovely and kind but disillusional husband…and I love my wonderful children…who would shun me if I just left…I could never cope with that situation…I got baptised at 13 after being brought up in a disfunctional witness home…Im 57 so you should ubderstand that 44 years a slave is very hard to break free from when you really have nowhere to go….I wish you well my friend…60 years is a lifetime of lies and my heart breaks for you.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 December 1, 2015 at 8:43 pm
 
I have been alone for 8 years now and all I get from the society is marry in the lord. Are they out of their cotton picking mind! I wouldn’t have a JW for a marriage mate if my life depended on it… oh wait… they said that. No I would not. I am 49, single, not bad looking and have two cats. I like LOTR and such like. I love Deep Purple etc etc etc…. My kds mean the world to me but I totally refuse to have the WT dictate to me whom I should marry. Think I am better off being crazy cat lady… at least it is unconditional.
Reply
 
 
 
 tiger123 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:18 am
 
I Could not agree with your statements more.
Reply
 
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 30, 2015 at 12:46 pm
 
This is not a practical suggestion. Slander is almost impossible to prove. Especially since your witnesses would be in most cases hostile witnesses. But maybe just the mention of it would work.
Reply
 
 tiger123 says:

 November 30, 2015 at 9:05 pm
 
In the case of proving slander, Jehovahs Witnesses are commanded to be truthful. We know that many are not, however WT has to gamble that you do not have witnesses and that they will prevail. Additionally conversations can be recorded in person, not over the phone. The in person conversations are admissable in the vast majority of courts. A smart Attorney can trap a liar with the evidence only bolstering the case to a victory.
To say a victory is guaranteed is not possible, however WT by far has way more to lose and would rather stay on firm footing than pursue someone that could shine a light on to their treachery. WT when given the option to avoid facing civil losses have almost always chose to back down unless the individual shows no desire to back off of their law suit.
As far as your comments that I have seen, they seem to be incoherent at best. Do you use multiple IPs to do hit and runs on these sites? Your grammer and vocabulary seem the same as a person who called himself Anthony.
PS Slander can be hard to prove when it is told to you in 3rd person. However you have a built in solid witness when talking about the person you are married to. Even if you sense that they will not cooperate, recording your conversations with them are solid proof of what is happening. Then a follow up confrontation with the slanderer armed with the information that you gathered can blow the case wide open. (Never share what you have with anyone but your attorney especially any recordings) Sometimes beating a bully like WT takes multiple attempts to solve, but once a legal precedent is set and a victory is gained WT is in deep and cannot recover.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 30, 2015 at 10:42 pm
 
It’s funny, I thought the same about your post. It’s seems your posts are rambling, incoherent and logically flawed. It also sounds like English is a second language to you. And it doesn’t appear like your an attorney as your assertions are ridiculous. You say that slander “is hard to prove when told to you in third person” shows right there a lack of legal knowledge. Check out the term hearsay. If you can apply it correctly to your erroneous statement then I will believe you may have some knowledge. It actually seems that your trying too hard to sound knowledgeable. My apologies if I sound to harsh. And I do admit that sometimes I don’t proof read what I am posting and spell check screws up my thoughts.
Reply
 
 tiger123 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 1:10 am
 
Markie/Anthony “Enigma”
You already know like I do that your posts will be deleted, so I wont waiste time replying to your foolish comment. It is obvious that you are attempting to derail an offense against the WT, by commenting while a discussion is active, hoping to mislead people. You know that if your comments are deleted later it won’t matter because people do not come back and reread the posts.
You offer no help to victims, rather you seek to poison them with a baseless arbitrary rejection of their right to seek legal help.
Your goal is obvious, protect the Watchtower.
 If you have anything else to say, show some insight and help people. Otherwise your feeble attempts at pretending not to be a member of the borg trolling this site is painfully obvious. Your beloved WT’s days have been numbered.
@ everyone else
You have the right to legally defend what is yours. Watchtower is the only entity that would try and get you to believe otherwise. They are arrogant. If the laws vary in your area, find out what they are and then establish your case with the assistance of a competent attorney where appropriate. Watchtower has long used your money to defend themselves against you with lawyers. Just as they have constantly sought advice from their attorneys about this site and it’s contents to attempt to stop the truth from getting out. You no longer carry the burden of contributing for their lawyers if you are no longer a JW. Find out what your rights are and exercise those rights, especially if your family is at stake.
The poet Dylan Thomas said it best.
“Do not go gentle into that good night.
 Rage, rage against the dying of the light”
Fight for what is yours!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 November 30, 2015 at 3:50 am
 
My mom is in a similar situation. Her congregation has her back when and if she decides to leave my step-dad just because he’s from a different belief. He’s actually tried going to a few meetings, but he saw some things that were not at all right, and who can blame him. He is such a good guy. I respect him profusely. He doesn’t deserve to be treated differently just because he refused to follow my mom into the Jehovah’s witnesses.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 5:10 am
 
Don’t know if my original post got lost or will turn up if it does apologies now for repeating myself. I’m still at the fading stage. My husband thinks I will be out in about a year. I wonder if he is right. Like Jane we walk and talk a lot so that is good. He is even more active in the cong and like others I have said I would not oppose him. Our tricky situation is that we bred two superintelligent aspie kids for the borg but they don’t fit in lala land. I have said to him to be very careful in nurturing our children because you constantly damn higher education and promote window washing. This paradise he is so determined to work for will have very clean windows into eternity but no beautiful fragile minds who are capable of exquisite thought (in my opinion, god given). The continued trend to dumb everything down to one brain cell is not healthy and you as an org, you will reap what you sow . I hope I made him think because the way they fantasize about paradise now is all a bit silly, some are perpetually on bible studies and others are learning Hebrew whilst playing the piano and building log cabins. All those shiny windows and fat birds so lovely.Not a bible reading between them! I will maintain Jehovah’s Witnesses DO NOT read their bible or anyone elses for that matter. ruthlee
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:16 am
 
@ruthlee. THE JW’s only read selective scriptures and apply it to whatever situation they desire. They barley speak of Jesus or if they do it is in
 the sense of “EXAMPLE” only and not in the sense of a savior or having a personal relationship with him. It amazes me that in many articles they will not even mention Jesus anymore. Look at some of the study articles and you will see his name rarely mentioned. If you read the Greek scriptures and gospels it is overwhelmingly speaking of Jesus and the love of the Christ etc. no mention of Jehovah’s Organization at all.
Reply
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 30, 2015 at 6:07 am
 
It seems WTS is fooling everybody!! They are now teaching JWs Women to “imitate” Jael therefore making them “executioner for Jehovah.”! Who are they taught to kill? Their husbands who leave their faith are the fist target… How can you teach women to kill and say you values marriage bonds?
Read for yourself about the insidious attack on the family: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015566?q=%28jael%29&p=par
Only idiots can failure to understand the idea behind “imitating Jael”!!
Reply
 
 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 December 2, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
Speaking of cherry-picking scriptures–” Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading[a (judging)] Israel at that time.” (Judges 4:4).
Does this mean we can soon expect to see a female appointed to the GB?
Reply
 
 
 
 David says:

 November 30, 2015 at 7:39 am
 
Very good comments, Today I was thinking the same thing that most of the comments highligh.
The governing body has replaced Jesus and God roles. In fact many have been disfellowpshiped and consequently treated as subhumans just because they loved truth.
So for example when you discuss the Trinity or about the pope position you research, study the Bible and come up with a conclusion.
If you use the same approach with understanding the organisation’s baptisimal questions or the interepretations of the overlapping generations and you love real truth you will surely understand that they have deverted from truth and reality.
You’ll not find in the Bible any reference that you need to follow any organisation to be saved or that Jesus refered to two generations.
The GB like many other questionable religious leaders build God in their image because their success comes first instead of love of truth and people.
Reply
 
 
 Rosie says:

 November 30, 2015 at 8:09 am
 
The hypocrisy that stems from within the Org is disgusting. The above article is very true.
I know of two siblings who prior to becoming JWs had certain “issues” between them. They remained very close regardless of these issues and when they both became JWs, one went on to become an Elder and the other a Pioneer.
Years later the Elder discovered TTATT and left The Org. Dismayed to realise how they had been duped and brainwashed, he hastened to share his findings with his active JW sibling, who instantly cut all contact with him. The JW sibling then raked up all the issues that had happened prior to them becoming JWs and proceeded to hold these against the former Elder as well as castigating him as an apostate.
The former Elder developed a serious illness and was struggling. The JW sibling did not bother contacting him; showed no interest and offered no help or support, instead preferring to think that spending all their time pushing JW literature onto strangers was what mattered in life and was “what Jehovah would want”.
The JW sibling also had a daughter who had married a pioneer. After the pioneer husband also discovered TTATT and left the Org, the JW sibling immediately began nagging the daughter to leave her husband. So far the marriage is intact, but interestingly although there were problems in the marriage before, it was only after the daughter’s pioneer husband left the Org that the JW sibling tried to push her into divorcing him – as though it was the action of becoming an ex-JW that was what warranted ending the marriage.
I really cannot fathom how anyone can convince themselves that these actions are what the supposedly “loving God” (that they profess to worship), would approve of?
Deluded, hypocritical and without compassion I think.
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 30, 2015 at 9:12 am
 
I think you all are missing the point. A sister should be able to cut the kitchen in half. In other words learn to take a punch, then pray to jehovah to become a better wife! Dont yiu remember the recent watchtower? Shame on you. And please keep in mind yesterday’s watchtower about the fine example of the brother that downsized his janitorial business and did it remotely. That was a wonderful example.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 30, 2015 at 4:59 pm
 
Is your comment to be taken seriously, or was it a clumsy attempt at sarcasm? In other words, are you an asshole, or just an idiot?
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 30, 2015 at 10:58 pm
 
Wow, are you stalking me? I guess it was too hard for you to understand my point. Your use of foul language and name calling makes your intellectual level apparent. Sounds like you listened very closely to the GB and did not pursue a higher education. You should be so proud of yourself. Also my I suggest that you reread the posting rules.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 December 1, 2015 at 12:20 am
 
You’re purposefully argumentative and abrasive. Inexplicably, you’re confounded by the fact that–on a JW cult education/recovery site–you hear people speak disparagingly of that cult. You’re loving the attention you’ve gotten here in the past few days as a result of your passive-aggressive comments, and you want more.
Rather than replying to this with your idea of a clever comeback, just think about what I’m saying. If you can’t contribute to the peace and helpfulness of this site–and if most of what you read here irritates you–then this simply isn’t the place for you. Come back when you understand the need for a site like this– after you’ve been crushed by the cult, or have seen the people you care about crushed by it.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 1:45 am
 
“You’re loving the attention you’ve gotten here in the past few days as a result of your passive-aggressive comments, and you want more.”
……….sounds like a case of Histrionic Personality Disorderhttp://psychcentral.com/disorders/histrionic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

 
 
 Ocma says:

 December 1, 2015 at 1:48 am
 
Well said. So tired of coming here and getting to the comments and having to scan over what that guy says (he has used a few different names now, hasn’t he?). This site is supposed to be a help for others, not a posting board for someone who enjoys being a jerk. I’ll continue to skip his comments. They’re a waste of time.

 
 
 Markie says:

 December 1, 2015 at 10:28 am
 
It’s kind of odd that your saying my posts are passive aggressive. Do you even know what that term means? Aren’t you the one calling me an asshole and an idiot?
I guess your hatred towards me colored your interpretation of what I posted.
It was obviously a facetious post. I guess you don’t recall a watchtower a year or so ago in the past that had the example of a sister that was physically abused by her husband and she was told it maybe was her fault because she wasn’t spritual enough and that she should pray more? They should have been called out on that paragraph. Even sued! It really was thoughtless and terrible. And last weekends watchtower example of the janitor! Now they are saying to be even less of a janitor??? What a joke. And just so that you know cutting the kitchen in half was a reference to a boxing term. Now do you understand? You know it’s never too late to go to college.
Do yourself a favor and don’t read my posts and I won’t read yours. May the peace of Allah be upon you (this is meant to be a joke).

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 December 1, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
Well, to be fair, with my initial comment I was trying to determine if you were an asshole OR an idiot. But if you’re thinking the abuse of a woman is a subject that should be handled with a facetious comment, dripping with sarcasm, then clearly you’re both.
I think it’s cute that you keep bragging about your supposed education. Rest assured, everyone reading your comments are beyond impressed with your mastery of the English language and your extraordinary communication skills.
If you’re determined to stay, then at least entertain the idea of making comments that are clear, respectful and helpful, rather than being so abrasive that it’s necessary for you to be called out on it. Please. I’m sincerely saying “please”.

 
 
 dee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
@Markie
Could you provide the reference information (i.e. Watchtower/Awake date, page number, paragraph number if applicable) for the situations which you cited so that the folks on the site can get a better understanding of what your comments mean?
Thanks.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Badshah says:

 November 30, 2015 at 9:23 am
 
Jane, thank you for the wonderful article. It was well-written and beautifully expressed. It was also very sad.
My wife and I have been separated for 1.5 years. She is a regular pioneer of long-standing, and I am an ‘evil apostate.’ I made the mistake of officially disassociating myself in 2013. After that things became very strained between us, in particular because she was shunning me in our own home. It was a very difficult time for both of us.
I finally moved out. One afternoon, before I left, she sat down in our living room with me, and started to talk. She said that we were both good people, loved each other, but just too different. She said we could still be friends, but the marriage was unsustainable. I was actually relieved because I totally agreed. Neither she nor I could change enough to make it work. That was the trigger for me moving out.
From that day onward, the doors closed between us. She has ceased all communication with me, and changed the locks on our home. The shunning is intense- way beyond what they normally call for. I realize now, that she is being counseled to avoid me at all costs. My former friends are doubtlessly advising her to keep me away.
Most religions have some sort of marriage counseling and support. The Watchtower tears people apart. I know now that we will never reconcile, and part of the blame lies squarely on this vile and destructive cult!
Thanks again for the article.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:21 am
 
GOODSHAH One soul sister’s heart bleeds for you.ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 30, 2015 at 11:33 am
 
From what I personally observed when I was a witness, it was crystal clear that the religion was always to be number one in a person’s life. It was to be more important than the relationship between a husband and wife and more important than the relationship between parents and children.
I have heard it said that it is apparent that the watchtower doesn’t just divide families – it destroys families. It has destroyed my family as well.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 December 1, 2015 at 1:57 am
 
@ ROB. My wife and I are currently separated. She is a staunch Pioneer and is extremely headstrong JW and worships the GB and anything they say. All of our married years were difficult. She ALWAYS and still does put religion first and VERY much to the detriment of our relationship. That has been my biggest complaint. She would pioneer and not take care of any of her responsibilities as I would go off to work. She would spend money like an addicted drug addict. Whenever I would get upset about it she would spend more. I said then you need to quit pioneering and get a JOB! She would say oh no.. the end is so near why do we need more money? It was an is a vicious cycle. I could never have a normal discussion or open forum bc if I showed any doubt or reasoning against the Wacko teachings she would go nuts or cry etc. So after many years I just could not do it anymore as I watched her focus over and over on her “BIBLE Studies: KH projects, assemblies, conventions, and anything JW or WT and neglect myself and our kids. I could go on and on but I think you guys see the picyure. Oh yes, another thing… I got baptized in the mid 70’s as a 20 year old and got married quickly after that bc WT policy was if you date..you need to marry them..! She never wanted to have children either bc the end was so near and children would be a burden in the GT which was imminent in her mind and the minds of JW’s.
 I had to “SNEAK” a few kids in during my youth or I would be childless today. Her dream was to pioneer and make converts.We continued to grow apart. I felt bad to see her crying when I would not go to meetings and faded away as a JW Elder. So a few months ago she decided to move out which she did and on her way out raided my bank account
 which I held in both names for over $150000 US dollars! Nice Pioneer ha? I talked with the elders and despite that they told her not to leave she did anyway.
Reply
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 30, 2015 at 11:15 pm
 
The Governing Body knows where it is heading… Marital bonds are nothing before their hidden agenda. They have created what they call “Jael class” = “Other Sheep” ready to act as robots even in splitting marital bonds…
*** su chap. 16 p. 128 par. 15 What Will You Personally Do? ***
 As is true of other non-Israelite worshipers of Jehovah, Jael pictures the “other sheep” who do good to Christ’s spiritual brothers. Regardless of what ties their close relatives may have to the world and its ruling class, the “other sheep” do not approve of oppression of Jehovah’s people by worldly rulers. Their loyalty is to the Greater Barak, the Lord Jesus Christ, and to his true followers. These of the Jael class do not personally raise a hand against the worldly rulers, but they use whatever is at their disposal to counteract efforts to oppress Jehovah’s servants. They do not hold back from making known that they are in full harmony with Jehovah’s purpose to destroy all of his enemies
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 December 1, 2015 at 12:07 am
 
“the Jael class… use whatever is at their disposal to counteract efforts to oppress Jehovah’s servants. They do not hold back from making known that they are in full harmony with Jehovah’s purpose to destroy all of his enemies”!! That’s where marital bonds are sacrificed as “the Jael class” supports “the John Class”!!
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 12:42 am
 
@Alexandria R
Has your sister’s son-in-law been able to get professional help from a counsellor/therapist/psychologist for his alcoholism, manic depressive bi-polar condition?
 Whereas the WT does not forbid a JW seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist, it does however speak disparagingly of these professions as the following excerpts show and so JWs may not be inclined to seek help from these professionals who are trained to deal with these complex situations:
Watchtower 1990 September 1 p.15
“The sister then told her how a knowledge of Bible truth had helped her. She had lost an 18-year-old daughter in death and had gone into a state of deep depression for eight years. Neither psychiatrists nor costly medications helped her to overcome this depression. Several times, she said, she was hospitalized, but no improvement resulted. Her household was taken care of by servants because she herself was not able to take care of anything. She tried to commit suicide because she had lost interest in life. Nothing seemed to help.
 Then, she told the lady, one day Jehovah’s Witnesses called and left her some Bible literature. That sparked her interest in God’s Word, and she began to read the Bible all the way through. Something started to change within her. She began to get up in the morning and take an interest in her household. She finally decided to take care of the house by herself and found she was able to do so. It was as though she had never been sick! This made her feel very happy.
 She did not return to the psychiatrist. Her will to live was stimulated by her knowledge of God’s Word, and this proved to be the best medicine. She looked for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and they started a regular study with her. She also began to attend meetings, and very soon she got baptized. No longer bothered with depression, she now finds joy in serving Jehovah.”
Watchtower 1988 Oct 15 p.29
“What, though, about accepting treatment from a psychiatrist or a psychologist? This would be a personal decision to be made with due caution. … Of even more concern is the fact that some well-intentioned practitioners have given advice that flatly contradicts the Bible. … Does the physician understand and respect the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses?”
Awake! 1975 August 22 p.25
“Is the turning of people from the clergy to the psychiatrists a healthy phenomenon? No, for it really is a case of jumping from the frying pan into the fire. They are worse off than they were before… That they are not the ones to go to for help when one is depressed and beset with all manner of problems is to be seen from the fact that suicides among them are twice as frequent as among the population in general… what is needed at such times is not worldly psychiatrists who may wholly ignore the change that the truth and God’s holy spirit have made in one’s life and who know nothing of their power to help one put on a new Christian personality. Rather, what is needed at such times is a mature Christian in whom one has confidence and who is vitally interested in one’s welfare and who will not shrink back from administering needed reproof or counsel so that one may get healed.”
Awake! 1960 March 8 p.27
“As a rule, for a Christian to go to a worldly psychiatrist is an admission of defeat, it amounts to ‘going down to Egypt for help.’ Isaiah 31:1. Often when a Witness of Jehovah goes to a psychiatrist, the psychiatrist will try to persuade him that his troubles are caused by his religion, entirely overlooking the fact that the Christian witnesses of Jehovah are the best-oriented, happiest and most contented group of people on the face of the earth. They have the least need for psychiatrists. Also, more and more psychiatrists are resorting to hypnosis, which is a demonic form of worldly wisdom.”
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 Holy Connoli says:

 December 1, 2015 at 1:42 am
 
@Dee and Hakiaimana Jean…You guys both nailed it on the heard and your research proves that the WT is a Cult withtheir archaic unscientific and un medical Ideas. It is like they are telling the JW R&F..”Just drink this Cool aid” and everything will be fine. We don’t need and professional help from Worldly people bc they are from the Devil and “WE” are the happiest people on earth! In my 22 plus years as an ACTIVE JW I never saw or experienced all of these HAPPY JW’s. I saw more depression and problems than I could deal with.
 Great research guys.
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 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:21 pm
 
@dee Do you have any references regarding the Watchtower’s view on psychology since 1990? (more recent?)
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 dee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 1:36 am
 
Good going Jane,
Glad to know that you didn’t allow the JWs to destroy your marriage and that both of you are out of that life-destroying cult. You certainly haven’t lossed anything by leaving the JWs when you consider that there is a possibility that marital bliss may come to an end in the WT’s fairy tale paradise:
Watchtower 1952 Aug 1 p.478:
“When the mandate to fill the earth is fulfilled, when childbearing ceases, the marriage partners may continue their association together as life companions, OR THEY MAY NOT (caps mine), depending upon the divine will at that future, distant time.”
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 Average Joe says:

 December 1, 2015 at 10:12 am
 
Personal opinions of the WT writer(s) at the time. No surprise there. What’s amazing is how they don’t really think about it before putting it to print (or at least they don’t appear to). That previous statement is tantamount to saying that God created a deficient product. ‘Oh dear; I seem to have created these beings with the ability & desire to procreate. In the future, when everyone is perfect and lives forever then the earth will get full and I’ll have to fix that.’
Sorry but God is nothing like humans. We have the knack of making what seem great products (aerosol sprays spring to mind) and then a few years down the line realise that they need modifying due to flaws or pollution.
 I know you atheists will disagree but please go with me on this one as (hopefully) you’ll see where my reasoning is leading…
Hang on though, God created a HUGE universe and for whose benefit? Anything in this physical universe is for OUR benefit, not for any spirit creatures so when the earth gets full then surely God will make some way for us to populate other planets (as he can make them life sustaining as he did with the Earth). The Bible says that he always has a purpose in creating something so creating the universe so grand makes me think it has to be for human population eventually.
 That option is much more likely than God saying his human design is flawed and will stop the reproductive & marriage process.
 So the reason I said all that is to highlight that if I can come up with something like that, and I don’t claim to be anointed or guided by God, how on EARTH could some of the WTS writers come up with such far-out, non-biblical reasoning????
 Rant over!
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 ruthlee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:52 am
 
Remember somewhere it says jealousy is rottenness to the bones. Well the bones of this old religion are rotten and porous and fit for fertilizer. It seems to me if you have ANY advantage be it money, happiness, brains, even beauty, the org insists on undermining the best you have. It is like the greedy grave never enough. The thing is in this information age everything is being exposed for what it is and these edicts from HQ don’t stand up any more. I wonder how long before they stop harassing the gunfodder ie those who attempt to stray as it will be too much hassle and start to bite the party faithful. That will be an interesting turn of events. I have seen many marriages that seem fairly stable and happy, be picked on to undermine the couple. The usual jibe is they have too much leisure time together. Well good for them the more they miss those horrid meetings and spend time together the longer the marriage may last. Is that not what god wants? Strong families who actually know each other. Its a fact pioneer sisters know more about cong gossip than they do their husband’s interests because those meddlers are bored with their own family so target others. Then if really sneaky report back to elder hubby .So then who rocks the cradle of the baby cong?. I can only summize the disintegration of normal but struggling families may well lay at the door of the idle gossips as they cannot resist a soap opera. Soaps have been banned from viewing since the80’s so they create their own within the cong. Elders never deal with this because it gives them something to do on their day off . It’s all a bit daft if we stop and think about it. I think the best thing I have read in my journey out is make the best success of life outside the org, as that is the best victory. For those who can salvage their marriage I think it’s worth the try and at least you can say it was without the help of fussy sisters and sheepish elders its your hardwork and determination. How dignifying that would be. ruthlee
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 Marcos says:

 December 1, 2015 at 8:36 am
 
I’m no longer a JW and agree the cult is dangerous to all JW but I think the site is losing the focus and might lose credibility trying to find too many faults on JWs.
They are nice people but unfortunately they are blinds. Let’s help them to open their eyes.
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 rob says:

 December 1, 2015 at 8:56 am
 
Marcos, I agree with you that it is important to help people open their eyes, but it is also a very difficult task to try to rationalize with individuals, who when it comes to anything about this religion are sometimes irrational.
I have in the past tried to reason calmly with my relatives, showing them the reasons why I could no longer support this religion, and the only answer I ever recieved was “wait on Jehovah” He will make things right.
In the meantime I saw so many injustices and so many people who were thrown away and shunned by families.
In my eyes this religion was not a place that I felt was directed by God, but by man and lawyers. Unfortunately any further discussions I had with my relatives turned into inquisitions and suspicions of apostasy and so I simply stopped talking with them about the religion. Maybe I am a coward but in the end each individual must make their own choices and decide whether this religion is right for them.
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 Marcos says:

 December 2, 2015 at 9:11 am
 
Totally agree! It’s hard to help them.
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 ruthlee says:

 December 1, 2015 at 9:20 am
 
An interesting comment about too much fault finding with the jws Thats maybe true but it is the behaviour of the nice people that has it’s effect on those that are harmed by the religion. I struggle to comprehend which came first the skewed doctrine or the type of people who believe that type of thing and then act accordingly. I think it’s hard to say. I heard an expression once “the disease to please” maybe that is why generally jws act so nice they genuinely want to please people, obey rules, have structure in life .However if it goes against decent human kindness and the unwritten laws of humanity the whole system becomes flawed.One lie begets another so you can still be nice but lie through your teeth.ruthlee
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 rob says:

 December 1, 2015 at 11:26 am
 
@ruthlee
your comment:
“if it goes against decent human kindness and the unwritten laws of humanity the whole system becomes flawed”
Very well said.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 5:59 pm
 
How true. One cannot create decent people through rules and obedience. Decency must come from the heart.
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 Redgreenyellow says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:03 pm
 
This was a great story..
 The Gv body and the elders are hypocrits and liars…
Its becoming clearer and clearer that they are not lead by Jehovah..they say one thing in one article and go against it in another..
 And then deliberately lying about “This generation” shows their lead by Satan ..no one should regret leaving these hypocritical leaders who left God..
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 Grace says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:46 pm
 
Redgreenyellow,
Exactly! You only have to watch the ARC & the final submission from Angus Stewart to see the lies that have been exposed by these men in high places in the org.
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 Average Joe says:

 December 1, 2015 at 3:19 pm
 
Look at the WTS solicitor’s lie in response to the statement about shunning (near the end of the report).
 In many places they accuse the ARC of false statements. Their conduct is inexcusable.
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 Alexandria R says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:06 pm
 
An elder from the congregation I used to go to called me this morning. He said the C.O. is here and they want to meet with me for a shepherding call this coming thursday. Does anyone know why a C.O. would want to meet with me? I can’t think of anything I’ve done wrong. I’m inactive but I never heard of a C.O. meeting with an inactive person. I didn’t cooperate so the brother said he will find something else for the C.O. to do that day. I’m wondering does anyone on this web site know why a C.O. would meet with me? It doesn’t make sense. I’m not meeting with them.
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 Grace says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:43 pm
 
Alexandria R
Good for you. Tell them to mind their own business. We had a couple of Elders wanting to bring the CO as well but I firmly said no, they would be wasting their time. It was well & truly over for me.
Also, I wondered whether it can sometimes be a competition for some to see who will be the one to save us so that they can brag about it at the next assembly.
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 Average Joe says:

 December 1, 2015 at 3:25 pm
 
Alexandria,
 The CO WOULDN’T want to meet with you. Don’t take that the wrong way but seeing as his role is to supervise the spiritual well-being of all the congs in the circuit and report back to HQ on current trends he sees, he really doesn’t have the time to focus on individuals in the congs. When he visits the congregations he just meets with individuals or families that the body of elders suggest need a visit.
 They should be encouraging visits and usually are for sick or elderly ones that maybe can’t make it often to the meetings. They should NEVER be used as a board for the elders to discipline/tell off.
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 JB Reezner says:

 December 1, 2015 at 5:22 pm
 
Average Joe’s explanation is in line with my own experience, Alexandria. After I stepped “down” as an MS and stopped going to the meetings, a dear friend of mine who was an elder requested of the visiting CO that he have a shepherding call with me for my encouragement.
With no embellishment to the story, I can tell you that the guy looked like he was in agony having to waste his time in a room with just an elder and a lowly publisher. I mean, I myself was only there because my friend wanted me to be there, but I was respectful and open to whatever encouraging things the CO might say.
But, nope. The guy couldn’t stop squirming, and even looked at his watch a few times. He said a few unimaginative things, and that was it. When it came time for the prayer, though the CO was obviously getting ready to do it, I politely asked my friend if he would do it.
I was disgusted. It was just another “nail in the coffin” for this cult for me– not that any more nails were necessary, and not that a jerk CO ranks among the worst problems with the Org.
But let me end on a positive note. That elder remained my dear friend until he died. Among other things, he had gone “to bat” for disrespected and mistreated sisters more than once. Two of them were especially precious to me. He wasn’t afraid of other elders, and he wasn’t afraid of not being an elder should his going “against the tide” on some important issues cause that to happen. But it never did. He was a good man. Not perfect, but good. And I appreciated that very much.
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 Alexandria R says:

 December 1, 2015 at 8:41 pm
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. I am very relieved. I was actually feeling scared. I didn’t know WHAT was going on. I think it was probably the elder’s suggestion. Thank you I can sleep now.
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 Average Joe says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:33 am
 
@JB Reezner
 Your late friend sounds like a top bloke and hopefully my friends in the cong view me the same way. I’m certainly not one to go with the flow just for a peaceful life. Either something is right or it is not. Too much personal opinion and WTS “man made opinions” get pushed in the congregations today. That’s probably why so many good elders stand down.
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 Tara says:

 December 1, 2015 at 8:59 pm
 
I’m glad you said no… I assume you did by your comment. I had a couple of elders come to my house for ‘encouragement’. It turned out, right at the end they wanted to ask about me attending my df’d sons wedding. I would imagine that the honey would turn to vinegar in your case. I could be wrong but one has to assume the worst. I don’t trust them. This is totally personal of course. I will now refuse any offers of a ‘shepherding’ call. I will refuse any ‘meetings’. They cannot force you attend anything so please be very careful. I found the strength I needed came from this site. The less said the better. I told them my conscience was clear and so far I have heard nothing back, but I must admit that the elders do give me wide berth at the hall. It’s almost like ‘they know that I know’. I will always be truthful with them because thats who I am…. I don’t lie. It will get me df’d in time I am sure but I am building up friendships outside the hall in the mean time.
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 Tara says:

 December 2, 2015 at 8:15 am
 
BTW my daughter and I actually did have a CO visit us and it was the most embarrassing hour ever. This guy didn’t know us from Adam. Had very little to say and what he did say was not of comfort to us. I think that was the first time I had ever met him. He never acknowledged my existence after that and his wife even walked past me in the store.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:22 pm
 
@ Tiger123
Thank you for the GOOD legal advice, and for standing up boldly to trollers who try to “derail” noble efforts, using slander and insulting language. Logically, even IF, and I emphasize “IF”, legal means are ineffective, IT NEVER HURTS TO TRY!!!!! Never be bullied by ANYONE, EVER!!!!!
 P.S.
I sympathize, no, I EMPATHIZE, with those who have to “start over”, whether in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or 100s, and with those who fear breaking off, at all. I have been there. Many others too. I agree, it is NOT easy. Most things in life worth doing, are not easy. But it IS do-able. It will take courage, faith, and perseverance. I truly believe that age is just a number. Don’t let society impose their perceived limitations on you just because you are X number of years old. Chances are, the older you are, the more you have to offer. Believe in yourself. Remember, most Jehovah’s Witnesses are in that cult because they seek the EASY path! It’s easier to let someone else do all your thinking and decision-making. Is that what you want? I lost all my friends and family in the “truth”. And I AM better off for it. Thousands who have left must feel the same way, or they would still be in the borg, wouldn’t they?
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
P.S.
To anyone who might think I’m just talking the talk but not walking the walk, after years of fading, I recently mailed in a letter of disassociation, at age 55.
 When the elders asked to meet with me, I respectfully declined.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 3:06 pm
 
We all rail against the Governing Body as well as the Bodies of elders, and overseers, etc. As well we should! However, it is highly unrealistic to expect that those twisted lunatics will ever fix themselves. I place much of the blame on the non-JW world, who consistently do NOTHING, even in the face of overt criminal activity such as child abuse. North Korea is “an evil regime.” Terrorists are “evil.” Back in the day, the FBI burned down David Koresh’s compound in Waco, including 80 people, over 1/4 of whom were children. Yet, the Watchtower Cult is still viewed simply as “nice people just practicing their religion.” Anyone smell a DOUBLE STANDARD?
 It seems to me the rest of the world is giving these Trolls a free pass!
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 Meme says:

 December 1, 2015 at 4:39 pm
 
Interesting article. I had the complete opposite experience. My elder husband decided he no longer believed and said he needed a ‘break’. I was sad but but agreed. He said he loved me and we could remain married just not “talk about religion”. Ha! What a joke. He couldn’t not talk if he tried. He filled our computer full of ‘notes’, mostly cut and paste from sites like this. To me, it was offensive. Had he not ‘attacked’, I would have stayed but that was not the case. No one in the congregation tried to encourage me to leave. They encouraged me to think carefully about any decisions I made. I made that decision on my own because he was making my life miserable. He could have slipped away and done whatever but he didn’t. Now he is SHUNNING ME and has filed for divorce. He is SHUNNING his parents. He can’t even call and check on their well being when I inform him of health concerns. I have often said, “I’d follow him to the ends of the earth in the truth, I wouldn’t follow him across the street, without.” Why? Well because he’s very unstable. The truth gave him a stability he’d never had. He left when he was 19, came back at 40 and full steam ahead to be an elder (this was not my desire, it was his)….now he leaves again. Sound stable? He’ll blame it all on ‘the truth’. He drinks because of the truth, he doesn’t fit in because of the truth, he can’t maintain a relationship because of the truth,…blah, blah. I have long term friendships (decades long) and joy in life, every day. I don’t need all this complaining and ‘cult’ talk. ~BORING~ Peace friends…. I love my people.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 5:40 pm
 
Then why are you on this site??? “Apostates” don’t get in your face, coming to your door, with their “complaining and ‘cult’ talk”. You are free to live your life as you choose. It seems that even your husband did not try to pressure or intimidate you into changing, the way JW’s pressure and intimidate family members who are not all gung-ho in the “Truth” (I speak from my own PERSONAL experience btw). So I ask again, what are you doing on this site? You say you have “joy in life,” but there must be something missing.
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 Caroline says:

 December 2, 2015 at 5:13 am
 
Meme, the reason your husband left you is because you put the “love” of the people at the Kingdom Hall above the love of your family.
I see it all the time. Most of the kids who didn’t want anything to do with the “truth” when they grew up, had at least one pioneer parent who put the love of service and studies above their family.
All Witnesses are to put the love of “Jehovah” (Organization) above family. Face it. Your husband knew that you need the “love” of the congregation more than him. That feeling of being included at the Hall, is what makes you fulfilled.
I loved being with the “friends” when I went in service too and I felt my conscience was clear if I could go out. My conscience was clear if I went to the meetings. But if I couldn’t get out in service or if I was too tired to go to a meeting, I felt really depressed. I never felt like I could do enough and when I realized that I wasn’t preaching the “truth” at all, that huge cloud of guilt lifted from me and that horrible depressed feeling left.
Your husband came to realize that the whole religion is a sham and he is making a life for himself and believe me, he is happier away from it and you because he realized what you are all about and no, he doesn’t sound “stable” to me but then neither do you sound stable to me either and believe me, what can make a person “unstable”, is a religion that makes you an unfeeling zombie.
You might think those people at the hall are your real “friends” but if you question even one of the teachings, you will be kicked out so fast, you won’t believe it. They are not real friends. You just think they are.
Most of us here, know that a real friend will listen to you if you stop going to meetings. They won’t assume that you have gone satanic.
A couple days ago, I ran into a brother from the Kingdom Hall and he didn’t know that I had been marked and we got to talking. I finally told him that I just don’t believe in the Bible any more and he made a comment like “I hope you don’t get involved in evil spirits now”. It was unbelievable how Witnesses are made to think. We have known each other for fifty years and when I told him that I didn’t believe in the Bible anymore, what came out of his mouth stunned me.
You are brainwashed into thinking the JW religion is the “truth” but everyone who belongs to a religion thinks the same thing, that they are the only ones who have the real “truth”.
You need to be able to examine your religion to make sure it’s the “truth” before selling it door to door. If you can’t examine your religion to make sure it’s the “truth” on the threat of being expelled and shunned, then that should be a red flag to you.
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 Meme says:

 December 2, 2015 at 9:27 am
 
“Your husband knew that you need the “love” of the congregation more than him.” – BINGO, yes I did. What does that tell you? He wasn’t enough for me to lose everything else. I’ll admit it! I own it. Should I live in a world of negativity and misery because that’s what he wants? I wish him well. I love him, even. But he wore me out. I hope he finds one of you and lives happily ever after.
My husband didn’t leave me….I walked out the front door like a big girl. Yes he did try to change my thinking. I’m stronger mentally and emotionally then he is. I know who I am. You all are always saying, oh I’m labeled an apostate, you can’t talk to me. Here I am and you tell me to leave…. no worries! Have fun : )
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 Caroline says:

 December 2, 2015 at 12:21 pm
 
Meme, I misunderstood your comment. Then what happened was that he was the one that went “apostate” and tried to talk you out of the “truth” and you couldn’t take it any more and left him? I am like your husband then. I want to talk to my husband to tell him all that I have learned about the organization and he gets upset and gets loud and angry if I try and tell him anything. I would like to talk him out of the truth too but at least when he refuses to listen to me, I will quit talking, unlike your husband. I can understand it that you left if he wouldn’t stop talking about it.
Are you saying then that you love the “truth” and the people at the hall? If so, then why are you visiting a site like this, which would be considered “apostate”?
I don’t think any of us want to be married to your husband, just so you know. We all have had our problems with mates who are either still brainwashed into the truth or were and we don’t want that kind of grief either.
My husband was an elder for ten years too and then left for ten years and came back strong just like your husband and I consider my husband a nut case. When he was “out” I tried talking him into coming to meetings and telling him over and over again “no matter what people do to you, you can’t blame Jehovah”.
Now when he’s the one that believes and I don’t, the shoe is on the other foot so I tell him that he was out for ten years, so I have eight and half years to go to catch up to him.
The difference between him and me is that he didn’t tell anybody about 607 or the United Nations affiliation (because even if he found out about it, he wouldn’t care anyway) and they didn’t mark him like they did me. He just decided to take a vacation for ten years and let me try and bring up our three kids in the “truth” by myself. I am sure if he had learned stuff like that about 607 and the U.N. and told anybody about it and they had marked him like they did me, he wouldn’t want anything to do with it either.
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 Grace says:

 December 1, 2015 at 4:54 pm
 
Meme,
That’s why I don’t think that Witnesses should be going in the door to door ministry trying to convert people. People don’t want it but they are just being pleasant with their non interest.
The householder is politely telling Witnesses that they are happy & that they too love their people. Sometimes it’s good to see things from other peoples perspective, so next time you go out in the ministry think about how your husband made you feel & then you can see how the person on the other side of the door must be feeling.
Peace to you too.
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 Meme says:

 December 1, 2015 at 5:31 pm
 
If you don’t want it, you say…’No thank you’, or better yet just put up a sign, No JW. I totally respect that.
My husband was a bully in the truth. No wonder he was unhappy. He didn’t want me watching shows like Dr Phil. He got mad because I said some xmas lights were pretty. He wouldn’t attend a large gathering because my df’d brother was there, no contact necessary. I attended, he dropped me off and picked me up, that was uncomfortable. People can use there heads. Ones who leave were probably the most self righteous of them all.
 I love the ministry and often have nice conversations with people. I love people. My husband clearly did not.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 5:44 pm
 
Sounds like the “”truth” gave him a stability”
you could do without!
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 1, 2015 at 5:50 pm
 
P.S.
Religious persecution works both ways!!!!!!!!!!
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 Grace says:

 December 1, 2015 at 6:35 pm
 
Meme,
I don’t doubt that your husband was a bully. I believe you. I’m just coming from the point of view that you are saying that he enforced his opinions on to you which you didn’t want & didn’t ask for.
Witnesses do the same. I had many friends that I made once I left outside of the “truth” that asked me the best way of telling JW’s to not come back because they are by nature not rude people & they feel sorry for them.
When you say that people can just put a sign up on their door, isn’t that asking a bit much from people? Would you want to put signs up that say you don’t want people coming around trying to influence your thinking with their version of truth? Especially if you haven’t asked for it.
When you talk about the “truth” with these people, do you give them the more palatable, sweetened version of it so that they will give you a foot in? Because what you’re in essence doing is introducing them to a bullyish religion. (read the Australian Royal Commission website Case Study 29 to see what I mean by bullyish).
After all, would you go up to a householder you just met & tell them that if they don’t become Witnesses, they will be killed at Armageddon? Would you also tell them that if they left the religion they would be shunned by everyone that they initially got love bombed with in the KH? These are things that the unsuspecting householder isn’t aware of until they get fully indoctrinated.
I’m just saying this because these were the questions that I started to ask myself when I was still in. It wasn’t until I realised that no one has the absolute monopoly on “truth” & that religion is FAITH BASED, it is one persons faith to another. All religions believe they have the truth. So I felt that it was rude of me to go unannounced to someone’s personal property & try to influence their thinking with something that I knew was unprovable. This is just my 2 cents.
:)Respect.
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 Tara says:

 December 1, 2015 at 9:17 pm
 
It’s funny but I went to a ‘therapist’ today who knows I am a ‘fading’ witness. He is a miniter in his church and we often chat… Today he told me that he and his son went into the bush to chop down a ‘christmas tree’ then went home and decorated ‘christmas tree’.. he told me that the cong. got together as a group and had a ‘pot luck’ and helped each other out and and had fun… he is a total brat and knows it. I told him I can’t wear yoga pants, I can’t read LOTR, I can’t talk to my df’s son and must be submissive to the FDS. He told me my religion was a cult and we had a good laugh. I love my new friends although I also admitted that I would NEVER belong to another religious organisation as long as I lived.
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 Robert67 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 10:20 am
 
Worship in Spirit and in truth, no religion required to follow Christ.
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 BG says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:11 am
 
I am so glad your marriage worked out for you. I began fading in July when on the July video on jw broadcasting claimed that it had been the wbts position to go to the police in cases of child sex abuse, which was not true since they in that very month were being investigated by the Australian Royal Commission for not going to the police. The friends, including the elders can be strange. They don’t always handle things properly or lovingly. I know this from personal experience. Some elders even had the gall to spread lies about me. You are told that you cannot worship God acceptably without the wt organization. I read the Bible and pray daily. I feel God’s loving care for me. I am glad to be away from an organization that refuses to see the forest for the trees, so to speak. I feel free, as I am sure you do as well.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:24 am
 
If there’s one thing the Elders know how to do, it’s LIE.
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 RetiredLE says:

 December 2, 2015 at 9:01 am
 
WBTS answers to Australian Royal Commission.
 So ‘slick’, so condescending, so deluded…
becomes obvious, Pixar and the Lawyers are at the
 wheel of the ‘Clown Car’. Beyond sad, WE ARE “Am Haarets”, but in finality clarifies something I’d never thought I’d realize/say about my birth religion….2 Cor. 11:13,14…. God, please help me rescue my family……
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 Robert67 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 10:18 am
 
Bible passage you quoted, perfectly describes these false prophets.
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 1:16 pm
 
Here’s a prayer for you, my friend: “God, Please save us from Your followers”
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 12:51 pm
 
@Meme
“He wasn’t enough for me to lose everything else.”
 …But wasn’t he one of the SUPERAWESOME ELITE…an ELDER…one of the CHOSEN FEW??? Sounds like you gave up quite a catch! 😉
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 anonymous4 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 12:59 pm
 
@ dee
Thank you for those hilarious quotes.
‘The Christian Witnesses of jehovah are the best-oriented, happiest, most contented peoples on the face of the Earth. They have the least need for psychiatrists.’
 …LMAOOOOOOOO :) :) :)
Reply
 
 
 anonymous4 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 1:48 pm
 
@Markie
I understood the sarcasm in your “kitchen” comment. I don’t know what the others are criticizing you for. I guess great minds think alike. 😉
P.S. I don’t think the use of sarcasm is “facetious” at all. Sarcasm can be a very effective tool in getting a point across, especially when discussing REAL a**holes like the governing body, with all the BS they spew out, eg. some of the stuff Markie mentioned.
P.P.S. No offence, and not to be preachy, but one really should be sure as they can of the intent of someone’s statements before jumping all over them and calling them nasty names. There will always be misunderstandings, and we’ve all been guilty of jumping to conclusions, so I’m the last person to presume to judge, but as I said, I would try to be as clear as possible of someone’s intent, no matter how many times I needed to reread a comment. Otherwise, we’re no better than some Cop who blows someone away because they were reaching for their wallet… 😉
Peace
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:12 pm
 
Anonymous4, I hope I didn’t offend you with my sharp reaction to a gross mishandling of the subject of the physical abuse of women. From the beginning, I acknowledged that the commenter may have been attempting to make a point, but that sarcasm was not the way to do it with this sensitive of a subject. Some of the women who visit this site have been victims of the monstrous crime mentioned in the comment. They don’t deserve the insult of encountering a flippant “shame on you” in a purposefully facetious comment about one of the most painful issues of their lives.
Likely, ALL sisters who have been in the Org have–at least once–been spoken to in an arrogant and insensitive way by some dense JW elder who was woefully unqualified to handle ANY type of serious matter. To not have the decency to speak to women in a respectful and caring way when dealing with serious issues is reprehensible. Some sisters have been utterly crushed by these callous fools who had undue authority over their lives. Witnessing that far too often–among other things–contributed to my waking up from the JW cult.
But really, I write that only to explain my feelings to any of the people here who I care about who may have wondered about my reaction to the comment in question. But as for you, you poured it on thick to Tiger123 as you lambasted Markie as one of those “trollers who try to “derail” noble efforts, using slander and insulting language”. But only a day later, you’re singing Markie’s praises and proudly noting your agreement with him by saying “great minds think alike”.
Whoever you are, I think it may be time to sign in as Anonymous5 and start over. Anonymous4 is suffering from some credibility issues.
Reply
 
 
 
 anonymous4 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 1:53 pm
 
@Marcos
Re: ‘I think this site might be losing credibility by finding too many faults with JW’s.’ — Is that even possible??????
 Sorry, I was being sarcastic and facetious. 😉
Reply
 
 
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← The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond?
 
The trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn’t put you off being one)
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Posted on December 2, 2015

There is a war going on among apostates, but it is no reason for gloating by Jehovah's Witnesses
There is a war going on among apostates, but it is no reason for gloating by Jehovah’s Witnesses

At the beginning of October I produced and participated in a video featuring 62 Jehovah’s Witness apostates from all over the world. The video has so far attracted more than 24,000 views.
Our message to believing JWs was simple: apostates are NOT your enemies. Apostates are simply JWs who have summoned the bravery to subject their cherished beliefs to objective scrutiny and logic, based on which they have decided to reject irrational, corrosive teachings and practices, and start afresh.
As should by now be obvious, I am (and always will be) a proud apostate. I am immensely relieved to have discovered, while still relatively young, that the beliefs passed on to me by my parents were false. I also derive great pleasure and personal satisfaction from being involved in raising awareness of the harm caused by cults such as Watchtower through my activism work.
But being a JW apostate does not mean I support and endorse the behavior, methods and agenda of ALL other JW apostates. Just because I come from a cult in which “unity” of thought and action is demanded, this does not oblige me to nurture similar “unity” to some mirror organization or community.
For example, a year ago I took the decision to distance myself from apostates who engage in aggressive forms of activism after I noticed an increase in videos being shared on Facebook showing certain individuals harassing Jehovah’s Witnesses on the street and at their places of worship.
Even though I didn’t name any names, or target anyone in particular, by merely stating the obvious on this issue (i.e. aggressive confrontation of cult victims is not conducive to their rehabilitation) I was subjected to a barrage of abuse and slander culminating in my being labelled a sexual predator, a stalker, a cyber bully, a cult leader and a wife beater by two individuals in particular – Mike and Kim Brooks, of New Mexico.
Since then, Mike and Kim, while insisting that I refrain from any criticism of them, seem to have set up camp as “Cedars Haters HQ.” Over the past 12 months they made two more videos with me as the subject, and have attracted a small army of similarly-fixated, mostly-Christian evangelical “haters” from across the ex-JW community.
In one of these videos, Mike Brooks threatened me with physical violence if I ever set foot in New Mexico. The “crime” that warranted a violent attack on me was my failure to apologize to another person for something within an arbitrarily-defined time period.
In the second video, both Mike and Kim condemned me for giving away an unauthorized copy of Crisis of Conscience to my YouTube subscribers. Though the pair bemoaned the breach of copyright represented by my unauthorized copies, which were printed by a friend, both seemed oblivious to the fact that copyright laws are equally applicable to digital PDF copies, such as the PDF copy Kim Brooks admitted to having in the same video (and which was even being distributed on their website when their video was uploaded).*
A ‘community’ divided
Since first getting involved in activism work in 2011 I have had to deal with an unrelenting tide of criticism from fellow ex-JWs. Even my first attempts at setting up a survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, which led to this website being launched, attracted controversy. Mike and Kim’s crusade against me, which is so clearly driven by deep resentment of my atheist views, is just the latest in a long line of aggravation I have become accustomed to dealing with.
I have repeatedly acknowledged that the majority of criticism of my work comes, not from Watchtower, but from my fellow ex-JWs. This, in my view, underscores just how damaging and corrosive the Watchtower cult is. Those who leave can be riddled with so much resentment and frustration that many can’t help but re-direct it at their fellow ex-members, who in their troubled minds become more worthy of criticism than Watchtower itself.
At times these “haters” get me down. I am, after all, only human and susceptible to sustained threats and abuse directed at me and my family. At other times I am able to shrug off the negativity and press on with my work. But with this latest “copyright” fiasco I feel something has changed, which is why I have decided to write this article. I assume my readers and YouTube subscribers value my treating them like adults and telling it like it is, and by pointing out the elephant in the room I will hopefully prepare you all for what lies ahead.
I have long understood that the so-called ex-JW “community” (I prefer to call it a movement) is composed of factions. You might be unaware of these factions if your only interaction with ex-JWs is brief forays on social media or forums. But when you deal with ex-JWs on a day-to-day basis as I do, the factions are all too obvious, and encompass two principle areas.
The Activism Spectrum
The first area, or spectrum, concerns activism. The following graphic gives you a rough sketch of the various mindsets…
activism-spectrum2At one end of the spectrum you have aggressive activists, who advocate confronting JWs on the street and in kingdom halls. A common defense of aggressive activism is: “All forms of activism are equally good, and different forms of activism work on different kinds of people.” My reply to this argument is that it overlooks how complex and deeply-entrenched cult indoctrination can be, and the delicacy and sensitivity required in disentangling someone from it.
Saying that all forms of activism are equally good is like saying all forms of dentistry are equally good. Just as a bad dentist can end up doing more harm than good, so can an activist who believes in storming into kingdom halls and berating cult victims as a means of helping them.
On the opposite end of the activism scale you have anti-activists, including JW apologists for Watchtower (but also some apostates) who oppose any attempts to wake up JWs from their indoctrination. You may consider it unthinkable to have such a mindset, but I have an awakened uncle who embraces it unashamedly. The attitude of awakened JWs who are against activism can be summed up as: “Thanks to the work of activists I’m now awake, but waking anyone else up through activism is distasteful. All the Witnesses still inside can fend for themselves.”
“Strategic activists” are those who take full advantage of online resources, including blogs and social media, to make it as easy as possible for Jehovah’s Witnesses to awaken without resorting to harassment or confrontation. You don’t need to have a blog or YouTube channel to be a strategic activist. You can get involved in strategic activism simply by supporting and promoting other strategic activists, or by sharing links to important articles or videos that may prove helpful in prompting JWs to start thinking for themselves.
“Armchair activists” is my description for usually-anonymous ex-JWs who for various reasons don’t do any activism themselves, but who offer guidance on how they would do it from the sidelines. Armchair activists can exert either a positive or negative influence. Their guidance ranges from constructive criticism and helpful advice to fierce attacks on the methods, motives and character of those actually involved in activism. There is at least one forum I can think of where armchair activists seem to be in the majority.
Non-activists are those, like my wife and many other friends of mine, who are simply grateful to have escaped Watchtower with their wits intact. They neither criticize activism nor involve themselves in it – they just dust themselves down and get on with their lives.
The Belief Spectrum
The second area of “factions,” and perhaps the area that effects me the most personally, is that of belief.
And it is much simpler to explain.
evangelical-atheist
Over the last four years, many will have noticed the tone of my articles and videos follow my journey from skeptical Christian, to agnostic, to agnostic atheist. Throughout this journey I have always striven to be as respectful towards believers as possible.
I understand that some people need religion in their lives, and though I find it both obsolete and in most cases repulsive, I personally cannot envision a world where everyone is atheist and nobody is religious. I also acknowledge that the majority of JWs who find themselves on this website will recoil if they feel coerced to abandon belief in God altogether.
It is for these reasons that JWsurvey has, and always will have, a “religious neutrality” policy displayed in our comments section, whereby it is prohibited to evangelize either religion OR atheism on these pages (i.e. “This belief system works for me – and everyone else had better embrace it too!”).
But, though I try to be as respectful and accommodating as possible towards believers, there is an evangelical Christian faction within the ex-JW movement, and it does not play by the same rules.
While some Christians jumped to my defense over last year’s aggressive activism debacle, rightly acknowledging that harassing cult victims is anything but loving and Christlike, they were worryingly few in number. Aggressive activism and evangelical Christianity, it seems, usually go hand in hand.
Worse still, though I hate that this is so, as of this moment I can probably count on one hand the number of friends I have who are both Christian and genuinely respectful of my lack of belief, including my right to criticize religion on my YouTube channel.
And I can understand the reason for this.
Though there are liberal Christians out there who embrace a “live and let live” approach, and who aren’t remotely concerned as to whether others around them embrace their beliefs or not, the simple truth is: evangelism is a part of Christianity. It is mandated for Christians by Jesus himself. (Matthew 28:19)
Christians who take their faith seriously are supposed to think that anyone who doesn’t share their belief in Jesus as savior has slightly (or radically) bleaker future prospects than they do. In that context, promoting one’s beliefs when the opportunity presents itself, such as when others are discussing religion on a website or forum, is only to be expected. In their minds, they are doing us all a favor.
But rather than its members simply extolling their own understanding of God and his requirements for humans, for some time now the evangelical Christian faction has adopted a troubling new approach: stamping out the fledgling ex-JW atheist faction wherever it manifests itself.
Again, I only need to dip into the way my mind was calibrated as a JW, and the motivation behind this offensive by the evangelical wing is as clear as day.
As a JW, apostates were not just slightly-misguided fellow creatures who were pitied but still worthy of respect. They were the enemy. The gloves were off. Apostates were agents of Satan himself who were to be, not just avoided at all costs, but resisted and repudiated if they made incursions into God’s organization and its all-important kingdom work.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that the same righteous indignation fuels the hate-strewn rants of the likes of the Brooks’ and Alun Williams (another even more eccentric would-be spiritual mentor), to name only a few. They will not share the same space with unbelievers. They can barely tolerate the fact that unbelievers exist, but the moment an ex-JW unbeliever such as myself opens his mouth and criticizes their cherished beliefs on a suitably well-subscribed YouTube channel, this constitutes an act of war. I become “fair game” (to coin a Scientology expression), and any tactics no matter how underhanded may be brought to bear.
No perceived flaw or slip-up is too trivial to warrant an avalanche of criticism. Even giving away an unauthorized copy of a book is to be treated with horror and disgust, and responded to with character assassinations of the most severe kind – even if the one doing the criticizing is guilty of the same indiscretion.
By this point you are probably thinking: “Ok, I get it. There is an evangelical faction in the exJW community, and it has its knives sharpened for anyone like you who espouses atheism. But what is different? How has anything changed?”
The Christian evangelical faction has, to my knowledge, always been mostly populated by demonstrably-eccentric conspiracy theorists, obsessed with freemasonry, subliminal images and the illuminati, who are almost a parody of themselves. But, like Donald Trump, against all odds they are gaining in influence, and have already attracted a respectable portfolio of more eloquent, credible spokespersons to rally to their banner.
This latest copyright fiasco came as a surprise, not because of the ferocity of the attack over such a trivial issue, but because it succeeded in duping a number of fellow activists – including a couple of respectable Christians I was hitherto friends with, who gave me bear hugs last time I met them in person, and who have featured on my YouTube channel.
I was previously unaware of there being any animosity between this couple (who I can’t name) and myself, and they were even friends with me on Facebook. But one of them made it clear in a private email exchange with a mutual friend that, because I offered an unauthorized copy of a book on my YouTube channel, I am to be considered “toxic,” a “liability” and “bad for business.”
The vitriolic tirade in which these sentiments appeared was apparently an ill-judged attempt to use the copyright issue as leverage to turn my friend and certain other fellow activists against me and my work. The person was, in effect, outing themselves as a “Cedars hater” and siding with Mike and Kim Brooks.
Again, you are probably thinking: “So what? Why do I need to know all this? Why do you even need to write about it? By writing about it you are only exacerbating an already fraught situation, and possibly putting off JWs who will leap on all this as evidence that life outside Watchtower is full of bickering and turmoil.”
I am writing about this situation because it matters – or should matter to those who value free inquiry and intellectual honesty over religious zealotry and unfounded dogma. Things will not improve by ignoring the underlying problem, the elephant in the room. Whether I like it or not, a bitter war between the evangelical and atheist factions in the ex-JW community is raging – and it has just escalated.
A war I don’t want
I did not sign up to be an activist four years ago because I sought confrontation and controversy. Believe it or not, I loath confrontation and will avoid it where possible. But whether I like fighting or not, fighting – if only of the defensive sort – is precisely what I must now do if I am to continue despite sustained efforts to silence my atheism by those who insist everyone should believe as they do.
What matters to me is not power, prestige, money or popularity. If I wanted those things, there are far easier ways of obtaining them than being a secular-minded ex-JW anti-cult activist. What matters to me is one thing, and one thing alone: the fight for truth. It is a fight that has been going on for centuries, fought by great minds and inspirational individuals who have made immense individual sacrifices to birth a society as tolerant and progressive as the one we now enjoy.
But nothing can be taken for granted, and those who insist on inflicting their ignorance on everyone else are far from disappearing in the rear view mirror. The struggle continues and effects all of us, whether it is creationists rallying for equal time in the classroom, or gays and lesbians being denied equal rights, or jihadists trying to burn civilization as we know it. And in my own corner of this global battlefield, I refuse to keel over and capitulate to evangelical thugs such as Mike and Kim Brooks or those they succeed in enticing to flock to their anti-intellectual crusade.
That is why I wanted to let my readers and YouTube subscribers know that, from now on, I will be more open than ever about my atheism, and my channel will feature more videos specifically on that subject. It is painfully apparent from my interactions with Christian evangelical ex-JWs that many of them are completely unaware of the arguments for unbelief, and I want to do my part to redress the balance.
JWsurvey, meanwhile, will remain for the most part as it is now – a welcoming environment for both the religious and secular-inclined alike. Scriptures will continue to be freely cited where necessary, because even though Christianity is objectively without evidence as a belief system, it just so happens that the bible is still in conflict with the teachings and practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses in a plethora of areas.
Finally, a message…
To my critics I say: Get off my back, or prepare for a long and bitter struggle, because I didn’t break free from years of cult servitude to be told to “shut up,” and I won’t be bullied. And even if you should succeed in silencing me, ultimately the wind is in the sails of free inquiry, science and reason. Others will pick up my baton when I finish, and I am already far from alone.
To my friends I say: Thank you so much for your support, but PLEASE refrain from attacking those who attack me. By doing so you only bolster their persecution complex, and rather than take out their frustration on you they will only escalate their onslaught.
And to Jehovah’s Witnesses who might be reading this, I say: The fact that ex-JW apostates are fighting each other is not evidence that you are not in a cult. It only means that Watchtower indoctrination has a range of extremely unpleasant side-effects, which include suspicion, paranoia, jealousy, anger and bitterness. All of those things can be found in abundance in kingdom halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but at least those of us on the outside have the ability to choose who our friends are for ourselves. And the longer you stay in the cult, the more pronounced those characteristics may be when you are finally able to walk away.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
*For the record, I do not say there was nothing wrong in my offering an unauthorized copy of Crisis of Conscience. I merely say that apologies need to go to those to whom they are owed, and any breach of copyright is strictly an issue between me and the copyright holder. And if you insist on besieging me with complaints on the matter, if you are fair and consistent you must similarly rebuke everyone who has involved themselves in downloading or distributing a PDF of the book – something the copyright holder has hitherto done nothing, to my knowledge, to halt. Others have complained that the JWsurvey.org logo has been added to the copy I was giving away, but the logo was added by my friend, not me – not that I think doing so was the heinous crime people are framing it as. And if you are to chastise me simply because my website is advertised on someone else’s copy of a book, you also need to level similar criticism at the owner of the JWfacts.com website, which is also endorsed.
Further reading…
◾Why I can no longer support aggressive forms of activism against Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾My response to the haters (and why I can’t always shake it off)


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← The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond?
 
41 Responses to The trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn’t put you off being one)

 Mama Joy says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:18 pm
 
Add this one to the belief box:
The loving believer-
 We are all on our own spiritual journey and what’s true for me may not be true for you. God doesn’t get caught up in your style of worship or cultural references, those are all man made anyways.
Reply
 
 
 Brad says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:30 pm
 
Cedars, you do it right. Fair, balanced, and supported by evidence. Back when I was doing research and looking up youtube videos it took 10 seconds to see that these 2 individuals have nothing to offer intellectually. I saw that video where he thought he was John Wayne and started throwing out claims. . I thought it was a Chapelle show skit or comedy sketch. Keep on doing what you’re doing. How can you go from the cult of JW’S to the evangelical spectrum is a question I’d like an answer too.
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:42 pm
 
“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave who is supplying food at the proper time?”
I vote for Lloyd…………………
 ……………………..and Blue Moon Beer…….
We love you Lloyd……..you’re the best,
 Keep up the fight.
 We’re with you.
 Garrett
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:35 pm
 
Blue moon beer……huh……does that.make you a broncos fan also?
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 December 2, 2015 at 5:34 pm
 
Nope
 Minnesota Vikings!
 8-3
 Go Queens!!!
Reply
 
 SR says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:31 pm
 
wootwoot fellow Minnesotan
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:45 pm
 
SR
 Where you from?

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Pow says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:47 pm
 
Sorry to hear about that, Lloyd. I think we as humans our hardwired to create a world we understand or at least think we understand, therefore any challenges to that reality is viewed as a threat. It was all so much simpler when the world was flat and the gods of heaven controlled everything.
Reply
 
 
 MikeSem says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:49 pm
 
Dear John,
 you’ve been my inspiration on my way out. Actually I’m still not done, not 100% out, but after some months of fighting internal struggle, I decided to start blog in my language – Slovak, because there is nothing available in this language, just some apostate pages, that look like from 80s and the content is rubbish as well.
 I decide to provide facts, clear reasoning and information that is not available to standard JWs that to not speak english.
 And your blog and videos are giving me power to continue. So please, so not give up.
Reply
 
 
 PJ Wilcox says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:54 pm
 
Sir, you come from a very balanced and kind standpoint. I wish I had the same. I have been around JWs since my early 20s, now I am 66. I bought it hook line and sinker. I was brainwashed until Barbara Anderson helped me begin the process of sobriety with the JW mindset. I must say the anger and resentment I had was terrible. I get it. However with this child abuse cover up it takes a new look. I was abused prior to being a JW. This is something I tried to talk about with elders but they just dismissed me. My guilt was self destructive. I was in a narcissistic hole of self destruction. When you throw the abuse, war, JWs beliefs and the guilt you have a literal IED ready for detonation. I am glad I am on the way to recovery. I so enjoy your wisdom and insight. Keep it up. Your showing me some balance and doing good works for this atheist
Reply
 
 
 Ken S. says:

 December 2, 2015 at 3:55 pm
 
Cedars…… I fully enjoy the articles that you produce and always look forward to reading your thoughts and insights on the current or past going ons inside of the Watchtower Organization. After reading this article…… I do hope that your writings will continue to be as insightful and comparable to the world that we ALL live in as they have in the past, the difference I have found between your writings and other ex-witness sites is the ability to enjoy your writings without the need to agree with your personal beliefs in faith. Your writings are very relatable across many readers thoughts and doesn’t require a specific thinking on God, The Bible or faith in general. (Although a common background is generally the basis for reading and enjoying your writings) An increase in articles on athiesm or a more centered viewpoint using that as a standard towards comparing the WT articles or developments inside of the organization may alienate many of your readers, myself included. (And seems to be counter to your own guidelines of “Religious Neutrality” listed below) I fully respect everyone for whatever beliefs that they have regardless on if they are my personal beliefs or not, I would just hate to see such amazing and enjoyable articles become unrelatable because a reader doesn’t share your specific view on faith.
Thank you for doing what you do, I have enjoyed following you for several years now.
-Ken
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:09 pm
 
Thanks Ken. Articles on JWsurvey will continue as normal. It’s only my YouTube channel that will be more open about atheism and unbelief. But thank you for proving right off the bat that there is such thing as a tolerant and understanding believer.
Reply
 
 Ken S. says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:48 pm
 
Thanks Cedars! I appreciate the clarification. I always look forward to your articles!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
I’m with you pal… It saddens me to hear we are not all united… I have 9 ex jw sites as ‘favourites and you and paul g. And babs are 12 and 3…
Reply
 
 
 Jerome Griff says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
A very welcome article and I appreciate your candor. While I respect some of those in opposition to you, I see I have more in common with the agnostic beliefs.
I would hope all could come together in a united front against the WT, but what I have sen happen over the last year especially has made me arrive at the same conclusion: there are deep divisions in the XJW community and it is best to find out for your own mental sanity where you feel most at home in.
In saying that, you will continue to have my support and gratitude. Take care John.
Reply
 
 
 Paul says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:02 pm
 
As usual a thought provoking and balanced analysis of the situation.
 Thanks for your honesty and open-ness Lloyd.
 We support your efforts and understand the need to careful steps through the minefield that is the complex thought processes of exjw cult survivors.
 Strategic Activism is my aim, and also encouragement for those who are out, or trying to get out.
 Hope you continue – you have my support.
Reply
 
 
 Dodger says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:08 pm
 
I hate to say it, but my first though was that Mr. and Mrs. Brooks seem, to me, to be “mentally diseased.”
I believe in freedom and liberty of people to believe as they wish and express their beliefs as they wish, as long as they do no harm and are not coercive. These people seem to delight in doing harm.
Sorry you’re having a rough time because of it. You seem to be a very reasonable fellow.
Reply
 
 
 Mynameisnotsister says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm
 
Not to defend the Watchtower by any means, but let’s not lay blame for their crazy completely on the organization. I think whatever their issues are have been around all along. Not sure what their motivations are but I’m thinking it’s not so altruistic.
 Thank you Cedars for being reasonable and sound of mind.
Reply
 
 David says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:17 pm
 
A fair point, I’d say. Sometimes people are the way they are because of WT teachings and sometimes not. There are agressive people in and out.
Reply
 
 
 
 Mel says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:27 pm
 
I’m what you described a non-activist. But I will say that I support what you’re doing. I’ve followed your journey for the past four years. You always write respectful, intelligent and factual articles. Don’t let the haters get to you. I will quote Dr Suess “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”
Reply
 
 Amy says:

 December 2, 2015 at 5:24 pm
 
Ditto!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 kasey jones says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:35 pm
 
Thank you for taking the time to explain the elephant. I felt like I was missing something, and I totally was. I think your making an excellent decision. If your gonna put your heart into your work, you should put your whole heart into it. That way, it leaves no room for misunderstandings in the future, and your children will be proud of where they came from. A strong, noble breed.
Keep up the excellent work, humanity needs more brainy people and less bullshit!
Reply
 
 
 Nancy says:

 December 2, 2015 at 4:37 pm
 
Very well observed article! I became an atheist pretty much the moment I was no longer a JW. It was a logical transition for me. My issues weren’t even with JW beliefs (initially) as much as they were with the authenticity of bible in general. Now, being secure in my non-belief, I have become (to take your phrase) a strategic activist. The evangelical faction of ex JWs scare the crap out of me just as any extreme branch of religion does. There is no love there, just control and anger.
Reply
 
 Sunshine says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:29 pm
 
I agree (mostly). I made a choice to leave jw just over 4 years ago, when I realised my son with Aspergers is gay. He was 15 years old at the time. He has always been gay. It wasn’t a choice for him. My faith in the Bible as being the word of a loving God was sorely tested. I couldn’t go from being a jw to evangelical- or any other Bible led religion for that matter because they would all condemn my son to a life without intimacy. I’ve joined other ex jw forums in the past but too many times it was like going from a frying pan into a fire! This one is the only one I currently subscribe to.
 I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I’m now an atheist. I’m more agnostic. I don’t ‘believe’ in anything yet still remain positive. I’m not angry or bitter. I don’t hate jws. My husband is still a jw member, and 2 of my children are. I hope that they see from my experiences that it’s possible to leave the religion and be happy. Wouldn’t it be good if I could ‘win them without a word’?! However, I know for a fact that if I started talking to them like an ‘aggressive’ apostate they would just stop associating with me. I’m not dfd. The elders haven’t ‘come after me’ so I can’t really complain.
 It was tough leaving and it messed me up for a while but I got through it. I’ll never go back. Life is for living. I’m happy to get on with mine because I know that to do otherwise would be counter productive.
Reply
 
 
 
 David says:

 December 2, 2015 at 5:25 pm
 
I believe that we should only fight for the right of leaving a religion with dignity. The JW can continue following seven lunatics if they happy with it. I personally respect people choices as long as they treat other people with the same respect.
Reply
 
 
 wifibandit says:

 December 2, 2015 at 5:33 pm
 
I support Lloyd, his methods and his outlook. Thank you for all your hard work.
Now, back to my mentally diseased weeping and gnashing of teeth! 😛
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:05 pm
 
Read hastily, but there’s also a Facebook group…Cedars..
Lloyd..
Off-putting divisions…
When I first looked at the landscape of evangelical and orthodox Christianity, I naturally thought like David Reed and others, how can the love of God and Spirit of Christ be with this mass of confusion? But, on closer exam, there was a uniting purpose, the focus on Christ and submission to Christ. Likewise, while former JW’s and dissenters and sceptics disagree on form and approaches, the uniting goal is awakening the general and curious public and current members who find themselves burdened, confused, conflicted and afflicted.
Getting into a box, a habit, of comfort, I found myself thinking I had to cope with the conditions and treatment I received from JW’s. The answer was, I didn’t–even if JW’s were THE only way, I didn’t have to tolerate the treatment–conform–like a robot. Faded. Then, I started unwinding the trap. I think like most, I stripped the GB of its authority, then started researching where this stuff was made.
And, likewise, with how one approaches disengaging from the Watchtower, it is on your terms, there is no hierarchy that will ostracize you or call you into a kangaroo court for not posting You Tube videos, or posting You Tube videos. A lovely video on this subject is posted on You Tube somewhere that describes the lovely rainbow of persons disengaging from the Watchtower.
Job 30:20-31:
“I cry out to you, God, but you do not answer;
 I stand up, but you merely look at me.
 You turn on me ruthlessly;
 with the might of your hand you attack me.
 You snatch me up and drive me before the wind;
 you toss me about in the storm.
 I know you will bring me down to death,
 to the place appointed for all the living.
 Surely no one lays a hand on a broken man
 when he cries for help in his distress.
 Have I not wept for those in trouble?
 Has not my soul grieved for the poor?
 Yet when I hoped for good, evil came;
 when I looked for light, then came darkness.
 The churning inside me never stops;
 days of suffering confront me.
 I go about blackened, but not by the sun;
 I stand up in the assembly and cry for help.
 I have become a brother of jackals,
 a companion of owls.
 My skin grows black and peels;
 my body burns with fever.
 My lyre is tuned to mourning,
 and my pipe to the sound of wailing.”
Reply
 
 
 David says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:08 pm
 
Oh, wow. I knew you’d had some flack for for being against agressive activism, but I didn’t know the extent. I had a quick look at a certain Youtube channel; it seems like the embarrasing avoid-eye-contact-and-slowly-back-away kind of crazy, unfortunately. Sad that people would put so much effort into being offended and confrontational. I hope they are able to gain a measure of perspective at some point.
It strikes me that trying to change someone’s opinion on agressive activism may be somewhat like trying to use logic with a person in a high control group who has been indoctrinated with phobias. I.e. the more direct you are the worse things get.
I agree that it’s important to learn there’s no one, single ex-JW community that can always be relied upon to be a utopia. Life is too complex and messy for that. But there are plenty of people who we are able to bond with, whatever our religious beliefs or lack thereof, and they don’t always have to be ex-JWs. As mentioned in a recent JW podcast, people who have no direct experience of JWs are often very understanding and supportive, and even genuinely curious.
Anyway, I hope that you’re able to maintain your public stance on these things without having to deal with wildly confrontational people directly, and that you’re able to keep positive for the benefit of readers who may be on their way out. If you want to blow off steam privately and need someone to listen, I’m here. :)
Reply
 
 
 Mac says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:12 pm
 
I recently turned fifty-seven years of age but began having doubts about my faith in my twenties. I went through years of guilt and family stress as I drifted away. I only wish I could have had the help of this web site and Lloyd’s insight, intellectual honesty and courage. I am truly amazed that he possesses such skills being such a young man. Others have already given support, I only wish to express mine as well and to thank him for the interesting, focused presentations, videos, and articles. As a resident of the U.S. I am embarrassed at some of the rambling incoherent nonsense posted by some of my countrymen. Thank you Lloyd, you are appreciated!
Reply
 
 
 January says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:15 pm
 
I have a complicated relationship with the exjw community. I tried to get involved when I was newly out, 15ish years ago, but the fighting and bible quoting put me off. My journey was long and lonely and I would have loved to have known other people who could relate. During my son’s more recent attempt to break away, I was reintroduced to the community. In the sea of conflict, there are islands of sanity. I believe you are one. Your calm manner and fact based videos have proven to be a great help in my son’s journey into free thought, and you let me know that I’ve never really been alone. We have all been damaged by this cult, some more than others. But now we have the choice to be loving, kind, accepting and decent to one another. Don’t let the muggles get you down.
Reply
 
 
 SR says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:22 pm
 
They are in the minority it would seem. I don’t think you need to doubt yourself over any of this. Don’t get sucked into their crazy.
Sometimes I find myself conflicted about how I feel about people who are still JWs. I was born in and left at 19. I believed for years there was something wrong with me for leaving. Adult JWs were my captors and abusers and it is hard sometimes to show sympathy for them. There does seem to be a balance of narcissists and their supply in the organization. Kids were always supply for these assholes. At times like that I enjoy some aggressive activism. Then I think about the couple who’s son committed suicide after leaving the borg. I saw them both drunk at a bar a few years ago. They paid a high price for their mistake. Mostly the only reason I contribute at all is because to get the kids out we have to get their parents out. It is hard for me to understand an adult going along with any of this BS and sometimes I feel like they get what they deserve.
I probably need some therapy. I can see how someone would feel the need to rage on them.
Reply
 
 
 Imacountrygirl says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:24 pm
 
Lloyd, I respect that each of us has our own belief. I have made a conscience decision that it’s not my job to judge anyone.
I personally still believe in a higher power, a Creator of the Universe and I have faith that at some future point his Son Jesus will judge each person because he can see into a persons’ heart, no matter who or what they claim they are. I have no concrete proof of that, but then that’s why it’s called faith.
It sets a bar to reach for. A purpose to my life. When I die and if all that I’ve prayed for doesn’t come, I will have lived a life of love and peace, leaving this world a better place. That knowledge is “enough” for me.
One of the clearest messages I get from the Bible is that we should treat other people the way that we would like to be treated. That puts the responsibility for everything I say and do on me. Labels are only words. It is our actions that matter.
I always enjoy the articles on here, even if I don’t leave a comment. While the articles themselves are interesting and informative to me, the reason that I keep coming back is because this is the closest thing to “Home” that I have found on the net. I have seen some troubled people pass through here, but I have never felt such unconditional love and acceptance so deeply as I feel on your site.
I don’t feel so alone in this world because here I can associate with people who have gone through the same things I have and who understand how great our grief is and exactly what we have lost. We are forever bound by a shared experience which no one understands but us.
After the dissolution, disappointment and loss we have all suffered, and are still dealing with the fallout, it leaves little wonder that the process has affected each one of us individually and we all are in different stages of trying to put our lives back together on a new foundation because our old one, well it crumbled away under our feet. No one can do it for us, we are the only one who can put our lives back together but we are free and we are making our own choices! We can help each other.
I will have to digest your words here and what they mean to me as I was not aware of the situation. I do offer my love and support to you.
I am sorry that you are being treated hatefully and disrespectfully by former JWs or anyone else for that matter. No one deserves that when they are only trying to help others.
As far as “Freedom of Conscience” goes, I got a free copy from Hulu.com before they became what they are now. An internet search will pull up other sites to get free access to his book. I think Raymond Franz would be happy to know that so many of us have benefited from his book. It is a light drawing us in from a place of great darkness.
I even bought a copy on half.com for $10.00 a couple of years ago.
Sometimes people turn their pain into anger and hate and have to find a place to put it. I have found that the more anger and hate you see in someone it is in direct proportion to the depth of their pain. You have a target on your back because of the stand you have taken.
I have never told you this Lloyd, but I love you like a brother and I can’t thank you enough for being just who you are.
Your loving sister
Reply
 
 
 kofybean says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:26 pm
 
Everyone needs haters. If you don’t have haters, you probably aren’t doing anything worthwhile. It’s when you find yourself in the majority that you need to take a step back and reevaluate.
Reply
 
 
 Grace says:

 December 2, 2015 at 6:35 pm
 
Keep up the good work Lloyd. I can’t bring myself to watch those people, they seem too intense & like stirring up trouble. Like everyone else here has said, you give well balanced information. You did well to stay quiet & let it run it’s course.
I think that I would like to consider being the strategic activist because I don’t like confrontation either.
Reply
 
 
 Nick says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:18 pm
 
Lloyd,
 I think you and I both began our exit at around the same time. I think we also both started post on another exjw website around the same time too. Our journeys are very much the same. I would personally like to thank you because if it was not for you and wifibandit’s hard work my wife might still be in. I have not seen the other site you speak of but, just from hearing about it, I don’t think I ever would. I also do not agree with aggressive activism; I think its off putting and only add to the stigma held by JWs about us. I do think that now is the time to take advantage of the horrible truths being revealed about the Org and its policies. Personally, the best method I use is the socratic method. Along with the information provided here and other sites, this method can lead one to question on their own accord. Anyway, thank you and keep on the watch Cedars 😉
Reply
 
 
 Richard says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:21 pm
 
Evangelical ex-jw have simply traded one misguided ideology for another. They moved from one ignorant tribe of baffoons to a different one. Cedars, keep up the good work and don’t let those pitiful imbeciles get to you.
Reply
 
 
 Amber says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:21 pm
 
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the statement “Those who leave can be riddled with so much resentment and frustration that many can’t help but re-direct it at their fellow ex-members”.
It’s funny, just today in a session with my therapist, I talked about all the things in my life that I have fought to overcome since leaving JWs, and how angry I was that even so, I have found another way that the cult has residually, indirectly, caused disaster again in my life, 7 years later. My therapist asked me: “Who do you feel that anger towards?” inviting me to give space for that anger, allow myself to feel it against those responsible and thereby work through it. I sat there and said that was the problem — I could find no one on whom to direct the anger. 8 guys in Brooklyn I’ve never met? The collective body of JWs? My parents for raising me in it? It was all so abstract, I couldn’t pin any object for my anger down. So, this is what happens: a target stares out from one’s computer screen, talking about this shared disastrous past, and says things that perhaps one disagrees with, or rubs one the wrong way, this person talking can very easily become the target for one’s rage, if one hasn’t had the opportunity or help to work through it.
I think the relative anonymity or removal of the Internet also amplifies this opportunity to rage, and gives a person the outlet to discharge that rage without having to feel empathy for the one who is the convenient target. Providing a momentary relief from the actual rage for which they have no fingerable target.
I know that doesn’t make it any easier, but I’m glad that you have the ability to see it for what it is — I hope it makes it easier to bear the brunt of it knowing that others acknowledge it too.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:25 pm
 
I think when people leave the Org. fully or just mentally they can either escape like pent up pressure shooting off in any direction or they can escape in a controlled way. we are all so very different and our new freedom has sent us all off in many different directions. My direction led here and I am so grateful it did. I still believe in a God…. though I find it hard to use the NWT… I still pray though I use Jehovah less and less… just because I feel I can no longer trust anything the WT told me. It’s very sad to have the carpet pulled out from beneath you.
Keep up the good work Lloyd. I for one am behind you.
Reply
 
 
 jason says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:25 pm
 
Take heart John Cedars! You do a great job! Your YouTube videos and sensible, sound logic are refreshing. There’s no way to not have critics or some who will attack your personal character in this life. Keep up your good work…don’t loose sleep over some hot headed individuals…
Reply
 
 
 Ren says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:26 pm
 
Cedars,
 No, please don’t keel over. Yes, please redress the balance. I was out a few years before JWSurvey was up and at times I felt alone in my views that aggressive activism was the antithesis to waking up. I would try to reason with such ones about how it just cements in their heads that leaving makes you a lunatic. But those I talked to were just so angry I think it was more about expressing their feelings than helping any witnesses.
 The first time I read your comments it was on other ex-jw sites, and I thought, “who is this guy?” It was so refreshing! At last, someone who gets it! But I must confess, I went to a therapist when I was exiting to process my anger and fears, which helped tremendously. It seems reasonable that most coming out of any high-control group could use a few sessions on the couch.Know what I mean? Therefore, I totally agree and support your stance that this atmosphere of violence amongst ex-jw’s has everything to do with the mental conditioning of the cult, which needs to be restored to healthy function. I also applaud your not thinking that we have to create another think-a-like group to replace that which we came out of. We’re humans. Doing the cookie cutter thing only causes pain. Long live JWSURVEY.
Reply
 
 
 Quiet reader says:

 December 2, 2015 at 7:34 pm
 
Dear Lloyd,
So terribly sorry to hear about the abuse you and your family have suffered. Yes, you are correct in saying that because of the horrible indoctrination of JWs and the belief system used of hating everyone who is not part of your collective unity, they attack and destroy each other. Many feel they are entitled to have a “gloves off” approach since leaving, and they do not see that they are simply mimicking the very people they have left.
 My husband and I appreciate all that you are doing and your very evenhanded way of dealing with all things JW. It’s often a case of taking out their grievances on whomever is closest and easiest targets. They cannot touch the WT or any of the GB and all that pent up anger and frustration must go somewhere. I am so sorry they have decided to use you and your work as their whipping boy. Please know that there are many of us who check your blog daily to see your thoughts and the thoughts of the people who write with you. You are a gifted writer with the ability to get your points across without “standing on a soap box”. Thank you for all you do and please keep it going.
Reply
 
 
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1 Nov
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 
My thoughts on JW Broadcasting 13, with Gerrit Lösch (http://tv.jw.org )... https://youtu.be/-3v6-oLtuhU  via @YouTube



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25 Oct
 Watchtower&Awakening   @ApostateAwake 
So the #ClocksGoBack.
Great, could someone let #Creationists know they can bring theirs forward a couple of thousand years?
Cheers guys.

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
 Susannah JW Reporter   @JWReport 
Dont bother to write to #Jehovahswitnesses here is what they are told to say #bonkers #Awake or just #wakeup #free http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider …

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


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23 Oct
 JW.borg   @jw_borg 
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/highly-secretive-talmudic-correspondence-guidelines-document-leaked-by-watchtower-insider … very interesting guidelines for JWorg, regarding correspondence. Thanks @cedarsjwsurvey  and to whoever leaked this.

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


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23 Oct
 AvoidJW.org   @avoidjw_org 
Racial Segregation & Jehovah’s Witnesses http://avoidjw.org/2015/10/racial-segregation/ …

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


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23 Oct
 Anthony   @armathenia 
Cheers to @cedarsjwsurvey and his insider getting this out. http://jwsurvey.org  is bogged down, but check out his article soon.

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
 JW.borg   @jw_borg 
@HowardandCarlos @cedarsjwsurvey Big day for this leak. It splashed on reddit.....hard. The more people who know about this cult, the better

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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23 Oct
 Snoop-a-Loop   @Alesiskorg 
@cedarsjwsurvey didn't know a "true Christian" does not participate in tying of tubes/vasectomy unless life danger pic.twitter.com/eX957ltyjS

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
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