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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism? →
 
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
Posted on November 6, 2015

The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control
The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control

When I was a very young boy, my grandfather died. I don’t know much about his life, aside from the fact that he was a carpenter, a policeman, and a Catholic. He was, in fact, Irish Catholic, and I suspect my father’s family took great pride in their heritage and their faith. It was a disappointment for them that during the pre-1975 years, my father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The invasive control that the Jehovah’s Witness organization had over my parents divided our family. At my grandfather’s funeral, all hope of normality was smashed when my father refused to sit with his brothers, instead electing to place himself at the back of the church, with easy access to the nearest exit.
Why would he do this? His decision was decidedly influenced by the March 15 1970 Questions From Readers, which posed the question

“May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?”
The phrasing of that question in itself diminishes the thinking ability of the reader and transfers control of one’s life to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The article casts aside the faith of the individual, suggesting that attending a church service places a Jehovah’s Witness in serious danger of violating his Christian conscience.

“Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided.”
Only recently did I come to understand the permanent damage that this caused. For the balance of my childhood and to this day, I never got to know my uncles, my aunt, my cousins, or anyone else in the family. In a sad twist on the words attributed to Jesus below, my extended family became strangers who purportedly worshiped God incorrectly, or so I was led to believe.

“Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” – Luke 12:51
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes no apology for splitting apart families; in fact they summon Jesus’ words to reinforce their divisive policies. Luke chapter 12 continues:

“For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”
Undoubtedly, self-imposed estrangement is not the intended meaning behind these expressions, but for the Jehovah’s Witness religion, they mean just one thing:
Blood is not thicker than Watchtower
It has been nearly 40 years since my family was fractured by the policies of this organization. Instead of a softening of rules and regulations, the Governing Body has elected to double down their doctrinal directives, expanding their influence using the power of suggestion and crowd manipulation to achieve control of their flock.
An example of this control is found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study edition. The article “Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah” drives readers to the conclusion that loyalty to the suggestions of the Governing Body is equal to loyalty to God.
We encounter Olga, a Jehovah’s Witness wife and mother who has suffered at the hands of her non-JW husband, a man who “abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.” The Watchtower paints a picture of the stereotypical “worldly” man, a person without redeeming qualities and without Jehovah.
Sadly, his father dies, and Olga agrees to travel with him to another city for the funeral, showing respect for him despite his non-affiliation with Watchtower. But did she truly show this man respect? The article says:

“She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony
 ended.”
Without even addressing the subject of attending a church funeral, the Watchtower suggests that a truly faithful Witness of Jehovah would never step foot inside a church. While this statement is not the subject of the article, the powerful suggestion is nonetheless implanted into the reader’s mind, setting a precedent that must be followed.
Just a few paragraphs later, we are reminded of some of the simple pleasures in life that must be abandoned if a person is to be loyal to Jehovah.

“Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good
 things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them”
The result?

 “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
This heartbreaking story touches me personally. The endless years of alienation from my family and any sense of celebration and happiness were replaced with piles of Watchtower magazines and books that filled my shelves, but left me empty and depleted.
It is difficult for Jehovah’s Witness children to really understand what is happening to them during the formative years of their life. One by one, normal relationships and activities are eliminated, and Witness children are advised that they must be “no part of the world.”
Another way this happens is by abstaining from school activities, including healthy and stimulating sports and clubs. The Watchtower hammers down this point by stating:

“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the
 championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
 out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
For most of us who have lived the life of a Witness child, we understand what this means: no extra-curricular activities, no after school sports, nothing that might steer us away from field service and regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
 Snitching and shunning
Along with behavior modification, Jehovah’s Witnesses engage in one of the most cruel practices in modern society: shunning. The February 2016 Watchtower advances from suggestive behavior control and graduates to full-fledged punishment of anyone who violates the social customs of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members are encouraged to spy on one another, and if the guilty party refuses to confess, the elders must be notified.

“Kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties. For example, you may have definite knowledge that a certain fellow believer is guilty of serious misconduct. You may feel loyal to him,
 especially if he is a close friend or a relative. But if you were to cover up the wrongdoing, you would be disloyal to God. Of course, your loyalty to Jehovah should come first. So like Nathan, be kind yet firm. Urge your friend or relative to seek the help of the elders. If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, loyalty to God should move you to report the matter to the elders.”
In a series of 5 photographs, the Watchtower study article visually demonstrates the process:
1.Observe the social media photo of your friend committing an infraction, such as drinking alcohol at a party where non-Witnesses are present
2.Confront your friend with the photograph
3.Take your tablet to the Kingdom Hall and show the photo to an elder
4.Two elders take your friend into a private room and chastise and counsel her
5.Your friend regains her senses and is soon participating in meetings once again
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower (click to enlarge)
 
The reality is that seldom does the process occur in this manner, with step number 2 usually bypassed. But the encouragement to police each other within the congregation is very real.
Another disturbing practice is shunning, which is not limited to those who have been disfellowshipped from the JW faith. Simply leaving the organization for personal reasons results in the immediate loss of your complete network of friends. And for those who have been formally disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a total and devastating loss.
A woman might decide that this religion she was baptized into at a very young age was not the correct decision for her. But it is too little, too late to change this decision. The Governing Body has decided that her own daughter is barred from fellowship with her. The bond is severed indefinitely, the punishment is very real.

“A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5: 11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote”
There is no greater bond than that between a mother and daughter, yet the Watchtower has managed to produce a doctrinal solvent capable of dissolving the closest relationship known to humans.
I know many Jehovah’s Witness mothers who have been reinstated to the organization, superficially believing they have “returned to Jehovah,” when in fact they just wanted their family back. They walk among the congregation with the permanent stigma of judicial discipline, but take comfort that they have traded public humiliation for the ability to speak and associate with their family.
 The Abraham Principle

“Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to kill his son” – Genesis 22:10
Inflicting harm on a son or daughter is a completely foreign concept to any human with a measure of good mental health. Yet according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the biblical character of Abraham showed the ultimate faith in God when the Almighty required him to stab his son to death on a mountaintop.
Is this really a lesson in faith in God, or could it perhaps be a convenient method of demanding blind obedience?  The Watchtower study article titled “Jehovah Called Him My Friend” suggests that anyone who doubts Abraham’s decision to knife his son is void of faith. The blame is shifted from the perpetrator (God) to the critic:

“There are those who say that God was cruel for asking such a thing of Abraham, and some imply that Abraham’s obedience was blind and unfeeling. They take that position because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.”
I never could grasp the sense of this bible tale. Apparently my faith and understanding are just too weak. We are told that Jehovah called out to Abraham and halted the murder just in time. Why didn’t he apply this same life-saving power moments before the planes crashed, or the tsunami hit shore, or the crazed gunman slaughtered those schoolchildren? These are questions we must all ponder for ourselves.
Separation of church and sanity
Looking back on more than 40 years of loyal association with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I truly understand how damaged my family was by this destructive organization. I can finally validate my own feelings, my internal conscience which always told me that these things are insane:
◾Associate only with Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾Stay away from non-JW church services
◾Avoid playing team sports or joining school clubs
◾Spy on your friends and turn them in to the elders
◾Avoid higher education
◾Shun anyone who leaves the organization
◾Never accept a life saving blood transfusion
◾Do not celebrate anyone’s birthday (or any holidays)
◾Believe that God will kill everyone but Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is increasing its doctrinal control over its members, further blurring the line between religion and personal identity. They have systematically removed individual freedom of mind and conscience and replaced it with a long list of directives, leaving many Witnesses depressed, feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.
This is a prison from which you must escape.
If you share the same feelings, please reach out to someone for help. You can do it anonymously and without judgment. Read, watch and learn as much as you can, and separate verifiable truth from the insanity of indoctrination.
Make this the first day of the rest of your life.
You are now free.
 
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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism? →
 
340 Responses to The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost


Newer Comments →
 
 BG says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm
 
I get the birthday and holiday thing, but they will disfellowship you just for saying you don’t believe in doctrine of theirs and they tell you it is xpressions inspired of demons if you have bad information about the organization or dare to say that the society lied about something! They believe they are living in a spiritual paradise, but let me tell you, my exhusband was a jehovah’s witness and it was no paradise. He was emotionally and mentally abusive.
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:30 pm
 
As many of them are because they abuse the concept of “head of the household”, and “submissive wives”.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:00 pm
 
@BG
 JWs must be free to ridicule, oppose criticize and denounce the teachings of other religions yet if someone should do the same to their teachings it is called persecution and a JW will face the consequences which you have stated if they dare to object to the religion’s teachings. You may find the following to be of interest:
***Watchtower 1963, 11/15 pg.688 par. 3; Execution of Divine Judgment upon False Religion***:
“It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see……….To make a public exposure of false religion is certainly of more value than exposing a news report as being untrue; it is a public service instead of a religious persecution and it has to do with the eternal life and happiness of the public”.
Reply
 
 
 
 Driving Force says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
A very well written article, thank you John. I myself was bound for 29 years and it has cost me my marriage.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 8, 2015 at 2:08 pm
 
I spent 12 years and leaving them (Jehovah’s Witnesses) cost me my marriage and dignity. They are now dragging me in the mad as Elders hide behind my ex-wife trying to ruin my career and CV.
Reply
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:34 pm
 
• Believe that God’s kingdom was established in 1914 even though said kingdom has had no significant impact upon mankind in over 100 years.
• Child abuse can be handled internally
• Overlapping generations = generation
These are my honorable mentions of insane things that JWs believe.
Reply
 
 DavidR says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:49 pm
 
“Child abuse can be handled internally”
I like the way Cedars mentions it, the Watchtower treats these crimes as a sin first, and a crime second.
That is why they will not report someone because regardless of the hours of schooling and thought put into professionals that have concluded that there is a high rate of recidivism especially for child molesters, the power of God’s word and the watchful eyes of the elders will help this person to stop committing this sin. Its sick and really egotistical of them.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:41 pm
 
“Believe that God’s kingdom was established in 1914 even though said kingdom has had no significant impact upon mankind in over 100 years”.
This was one of the first thoughts that came to my mind when I started to wake up. I began to wonder: what exactly has Jesus been doing for mankind since he began ruling in 1914? It seemed to me that he is just sitting there twiddling his thumbs, yet there are still wars, conflicts, etc. taking place on earth so what’s the point? Why have Jesus start ruling if he won’t be doing anything about these things?
If Jesus was indeed ruling since 1914, would he not share in the guilt of all the wars and atrocities that nations have been guilty of on his watch, by not exercising his authority to intervene and stop them? And how is it that only the JWs knew that Jesus began ruling in 1914? Why wouldn’t Jesus want anyone else to know about it?
It also occurred to me that if Jesus did begin ruling in 1914 then his coming at Armageddon would make 3 times that he would come yet the Bible teaches that he would come only 2 times.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:48 pm
 
Also, according to the WT, the signs marking the conclusion of the system of things (Matthew 24; Luke 12) prove that Christ is present in kingdom power.
 However, according to Jesus’ own words at Luke 21:31 and Matthew 24:33, the signs marking the end of the age would signify that the kingdom of God is NEAR not actually HERE.
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:42 am
 
1914 God’s Kingdom then?
 then Satan’s chain is too toooo long.
 And all rulers since then are innocent [hitler!!!]
 As the overlord king has permitted them.
Reply
 
 
 
 kofybean says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:36 pm
 
Tell me they didn’t reference Genesis 22:10. “..because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.” My word.
 If the GB told a member to kill, would they do it on faith?
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm
 
In my opinion all of the points made in this article are completely valid and mirror the experience which I had as a witness. Not being able to associate with my non witness relatives and not participating in any sports or extra curricular activities was the norm.
As a fader, I am so glad to be free from the wacky prison that is the watchtower. Unfortunately with friends and family still in the witness religion, I feel that I am always on parole, as when I am around them I still need to be careful about what I say. I guess the stigma from this religion will always be in my life but at least I am no longer shackled under the mind numbing routine that used to dictate my life.
Reply
 
 
 DavidR says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
“My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
So wait, disowning someone who chooses to follow their heart and worship in a way that seems right to them shouldn’t move family members to disown them? What a concept. Its funny how they put these thoughts right next to an article where they then justify having nothing to do with someone who has left the faith.
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm
 
Yup, double standards like there’s no tomorrow.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:29 am
 
@Bart. So true Bart and then they have the nerve to say on their videos and in JW.org that they do NOT SHUN? The video last year from the brother in Finland claimed in an interview that they do not shun and anyone can come and go in the JW religion without persecution. What a crock of lies.
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:57 pm
 
JWs gladly shun family but are quick to claim persecution when their non-witness family members oppose their beliefs. Wonder who is persecuting who?
Reply
 
 
 
 phoenix_Rising says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:49 pm
 
So true – my mother who is active and I am df’d speaks to me on occasion and has been reconnecting with her non Witness Sister. She asked me “Please don’t inform your aunt that you are df’d and that I am not supposed to talk to you or that I haven’t seen you in several years. I wouldn’t want to discourage her progress or it to impact how she views the organization.” To which I replied “Well if shunning is so loving why be ashamed of it.” to which she had no response. Unreal.
Reply
 
 DavidR says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:52 pm
 
I’m soo sorry. Its good that she has her priorities in the right place. I will sacrifice my child on the altar of Watchtower, but I don’t want to tell your aunt cause then it will discourage her. I like how “discouraged” became the code for someone getting a realistic view of the organization.
Reply
 
 
 
 RC says:

 November 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm
 
Hi,
 Dont know how accurate my information is but jehovah was one of the gods of the jewish pantheon who was primarily concerned with war. When the jewish religion became monothestic they gave the attributes of another god (EL i think )to jehovah and elevated him to the Creator of the universe. During those times human sacrifice seems to have occured to gods. That story of Abraham trying to sacrifice his son may very well be a hint to those practices.
Reply
 
 Paul ngugi says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:23 pm
 
RC, kindly direct me to the link to that info
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:24 pm
 
Hi paul,
 This may serve as a starting point . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:37 pm
 
I’m reading a book now called “the history of the Jews” by Paul Johnson.
 An interesting read that talks about Israel and its God from an archaeological point.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:27 pm
 
I think it is a good idea to read as many books etc. about the history of the Jews/Israelites and their God in order to get a better understanding of the Bible, in particular the Old Testament.

 
 
 RC says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:28 am
 
Hi Garret ,
 Sure will look into the book. Thanks.
 @dee
 I too think it is a good idea to learn about the history of the jews to get an idea about the old testament.

 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:06 pm
 
RC and Paul, this is one of the most interesting videos I’ve ever seen that deals with archeology and the Bible. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
I don’t offer it as something you should blindly accept, but it is fascinating and worthy of consideration, in my opinion.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:30 am
 
Thanks JB ,
 Interesting site . Browsing through it.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Jim Reaugh says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:12 pm
 
I had to read this twice already…and I will likely read it again. It resonates so much with me and my deepest feelings regarding the organization.
 Thank you John, for your candour and honesty. Although the damage is done, you are spot on…we are now free.
Reply
 
 
 will says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:13 pm
 
Unfortunately, my wife and kids (8 and 11) still go. I faded and I haven’t been to a meeting in well over a year, and I have no intention of going back. My wife knows how much I detest the Watchtower, and religion in general. I try to instill independent thinking in my kids. In fact, I took them work with me the other day and I talked to them about not letting people put boundaries on them, not let anyone tell what they should or should not do with their lives (without mentioning the vile, repulsive Watchtower). My wife loves being a witness, but I do think she disagrees with certain issues (i.e. shunning of children and that dangerous suggestion on staying with an abusive spouse). I remember when I started studying and how the Org was defensive about not breaking up families and how the Family Book and various article “prove” that, but now I see clearly this religious is horrible for families. Great article!!!
Reply
 
 Scrubmaster says:

 November 6, 2015 at 5:12 pm
 
@Will – Amen. I tell my two kids the same thing. I go occasionally to meetings and assembly days. But I have seen and read way to much in the past few years to truly believe in organize religion anymore.
Reply
 
 Donald duck says:

 November 8, 2015 at 11:58 pm
 
Me too, I have an almost 7 and eight year old… My spouse is deeply entrenched and extremely conservative even by witness standards. I tell my children often, be a good person because you want too,not because someone is telling you too. My stories are long. I was in circuit work for a time. Not sure if this is appropriate, but I really could use some like minded individuals to text with… I use an app called kik, please feel free to text me. My username is lady Grantham =)
Reply
 
 Will says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
@donald duck I think going on this website and seeing other people’s point of view is encouraging (Witnesses made me hate this word, but actually appropriate here). Sometimes you feel you’re the only one, but you’re not. Hang tight. Be true to your beliefs. I’m not sure what your home situation is. Does your wife know how you feel? If she does. Don’t back down, but be kind, yet firm. If you’re “in the closet”, keep checking this site out. I stopped going to the meeting because I was sick and tired of the talks, conventions, Watchtower, the School……….. I rather stay home and watch my toenails grow than listen to another talk or sit through another Watchtower Study.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 John freeman says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:01 am
 
I also am trying to fade .same withy wife .she loves ” the truth” but she also knows somthing is wrong at GB level she does not like the broadcast and wont use a tablet.however she says jah will sort things out .most of my family are in so the only option ive got is fade or have a family breakup. Ive been in 50 years but started to feel somthing is wrong when the GB started to go on about going on line and making an idol out of the .ORG i found out about the child molesting cover up .my faith in the GB was shattered whe s lett said it was fslse stories and apostate driven lies. I still take wife to meetings but am finding it increasingly difficult to sit thru it. I have told her i will have to drop her of and pick up later. I am increasingly becoming more and more exasperated with the GBs unwillingness to soften thier stance on the issues mentioned .you have my sympathy . Be assured you are not alone my friend.
Reply
 
 Will says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:08 am
 
@John Freeman My wife is more than capable of taking herself, but I don’t stop her from going, but I NEVER ask her how the meeting was, because she will know I could care less. The Org has handled the child abuse scandal atrociously. Many lives have been destroyed by the Watchtower’s policy on abuse. If this truly was God’s org, this never would have happened and certainly not have let it go on for as long as it has gone on. God would have “sorted” things out a long time ago.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:27 pm
 
Excellent article. Another reminder of how relatively fortunate I was in that only my inadequate lunatic of a mother was a Jehovah’s Witness. My mother in practice was my grandmother. Nan looked after us children while mum simply waved Awakes and Watchtowers about and spouted all the Brooklyn issued garbage.
For her the JW outfit was a way of reassuring herself that, for all that she could nothing whatever remotely useful, she was, by virtue of being ‘In the Truth’, utterly superior to everyone around her.
Reply
 
 
 Edward May says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm
 
Wonderful article. I’m stepping down as a elder soon. Articles like this give me more encouragement to do what I need to do.
Reply
 
 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:20 pm
 
I’m encouraged by your expression and intention Ed ! I’m sure you will find more peace for your mind and heart after doing so ! It would be honor to represent this or any org. if it would live up to true Christianity .Unfortunately “we” or our org. failed in big scale and now it’s honorable to step down for any elder or MS who has a speck of real Christan conscience asap ! May god give you strength and peace to do so !
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
God bless you Edward, leave behind all forms of participating in this cults ceremonies before they suck all the faith in God out of you. I was an elder for 23 years and could feel a recentment against God building up in me for the things he was making me do( or so I thought). That first meeting after you turn it in will be the greatest meeting you’ve had in years. Tell them the job was giving you stress, anxiety or flat out say its a matter of conscience. Hope your able to help some escape on your way out.
Reply
 
 
 
 Juan Viejo says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:53 pm
 
Excellent article and absolutely true to life. The sad thing is that most converts to Watchtowerism don’t realize that so much is banned or discouraged by the Governing Body. JWs don’t realize that many restrictions they face daily have absolutely no biblical support – or are due to twisted interpretations of non-applicable “cherry-picked” scripture verses that have little or no bearing on our modern day.
Joe Rutherford supposedly revered Pastor Russell and his teachings, but within a span of 20 years reversed practically everything the good “Pastor” taught. Since the 1950s, and again in the 1990s, modern Governing Bodies have deleted or replaced almost everything both Russell and Rutherford taught. And yet they all claimed that both they and their predecessors were “chosen” and “inspired” by Jehovah’s spirit.
I see a time in the not-so-distant future when much of what is taught to JWs today will be either altered or replaced as Governing Body members change. GB members all seem to have a need to leave their own mark on the Society and are willing to replace or rewrite existing teachings that were once the hallmarks and standards that JWs were known for. The Worldwide Church of God went through these very changes in the 1980s and is unrecognizable from its earlier years but still exists along with many long time members. We can already say the same when comparing modern JWs to those in the Rutherford era.
I find it interesting that unlike scientific “theories” that consistently change and move forward as new facts are discovered, JW “truths” seem to be like a roller coaster that goes up, down, around, through switchbacks, and finally off the tracks. Along the way, everyone in their seats holds on for dear life, afraid of being tossed off into the darkness – while all their friends will have to grit their teeth and stay with the train no matter how uncomfortable or endangered they (or their kids) are.
May I respectfully suggest to everyone that they not take that roller coaster ride – or to get off while they still can.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 3:58 pm
 
It always bothered me too about the account with Abraham, willing to slaughter his son on his “faith” in God’s resurrecting him again like what the Watchtower likes to say. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that God would resurrect Abraham’s son. Abraham was simply willing to kill his son for on the say so of his God, Jehovah. Faith in the resurrection had nothing to do with it. It was all about loyalty to his God, Jehovah.
Are we to have such loyalty to God that we would kill another person like that on the say so of an invisible God that only we can hear?
If that is the kind of person we are, then we’d be considered nuts by any court in the land today but yet, we are to respect Abraham for having such “loyalty” to his God Jehovah? I think not. The man “son of Sam” killed people by listening to voices too. Lots of people kill other people by listening to voices that only they can hear. They are crazy.
It is so easy to say Abraham was loyal and had faith when it wasn’t he himself that was going to die. Abraham didn’t have much faith in God when he was willing to hand over his wife two times to kings (coward) to save his own skin. I don’t like Abraham much and I can’t figure out why the Jews do to this day either.
Witnesses don’t think of Jehovah as the God who asked the Israelites to sacrifice their sons and daughters in the fire (Jeremiah 7:31) because Jehovah stopped Abraham from stabbing his son to death, but yet if a daughter of a priest was caught in prostitution, she was to be burned in the fire (Lev. 21:9) or if a man bought a girl from her father as a wife to the man and after the man married her, if he accused the girl of not being a virgin when he married her and if the parents couldn’t prove she was a virgin, the men of the city were to stone the girl to death and of course ours is the only Bible that implies that Jephthah didn’t actually burn his daughter as a sacrifice to Jehovah.
If only I was still going to meetings now. There are so many things that I would confront the elders with now that I finally figured it all out.
Before, I bought into the excuse that we just don’t know all the circumstances way back then and of course the excuse “it was a different time and place”.
About ten years ago, I bought into the “keeping the congregation clean” crap and turned in a young brother that I saw smoking but at least I did tell him first and told him that if he didn’t talk to the elders about it, that I would be forced to do it.
Now I would tell the kid to run the other way and never look back. Thankfully, he won’t have anything to do with it anymore. I wished I could talk to him and tell him how sorry I am that I did that to him but at the time, I was convinced that Jehovah would not bless the congregation if it wasn’t “clean”.
How stupid I was then.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:15 pm
 
I should have put that that account of stoning a girl that couldn’t be proved to be a virgin is at Deuteronomy 22:13-21.
Reply
 
 
 Albert says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:19 pm
 
I agree with everything you had to say except for the fact that there is an indication in the Bible that Abraham believed that his son would be resurrected. Granted this was written hundreds of years after Abraham’s death and if you don’t believe in God then all this statement would be is the writers opinion.
Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up [his] only-begotten [son], 18 although it had been said to him: “What will be called ‘your seed’ will be through Isaac.” 19 But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:04 am
 
@Albert, if Abraham thought that Isaac was going to be resurrected, then what would have been the point of killing him, if he thought that it was only a temporary death? That doesn’t make any sense.
Reply
 
 Reader says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:04 pm
 
Two points;
 a] Human sacrifice is difficult to prove and ancient religious rites leave no archeological traces; the studies of Robert Graves ‘The Greek Myths’ book 1 & 2 give some practical deductions from myths which have survived, though tedious at times to study [mainly in the footnotes]. It would seem that at the time of the Mosaic law and before Human sacrifice was widespread but not not have been “hollywood” common.
 b] Consider if Goliath was Nephilim, maybe the was fallen angel breeding in ancient palestine.
 I think that maybe Judah ordering the burning of Tamar may have been a fear of a ‘sacred king’ threat to himself?
 Leave it with you…
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:32 am
 
@Caroline
I suppose it could be argued that the test for Abraham was to see if he truly believed that God had the power to resurrect Isaac i.e. did Abraham truly believe that bringing the dead back to life was possible, test him to see if that is in fact so ?????????
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:25 am
 
My curiosity has been peeked and just for curiosness sake,I wonder what size sandal Abraham used? I keep reading the account, but can’t find that or any accounts of his doubts, hobbies, taste in music, preference in women; dark, fair, mix of both? I also read the entire Abraham account in about 25 minutes, does anyone have a copy of the other 175 years? No? Well, I guess we know all of his thoughts anyway.
Interesting that the Jeremiah 7:31 passage states:
 They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had NOT commanded and that had NEVER even come into my heart.’
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:50 am
 
Ok I’m confused… in a good way – I think. So most of Leviticus tells us that so and so if they did this that or the other should be burned in the fire etc etc etc BUT then we read in Jerm 7 that this never came into Jehovah’s heart….. other scriptures say it is detestable to Jehovah…. can someone explain why it was ok one minute but not the next?
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
Tara, the whole thing is very confusing. Let’s take for instance what the King James Bible says at Ezekiel 20:25,26:
“Moreover also I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances, wherein they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
Exodus 20:20 says that they were to give their firstborn to Jehovah “Every firstborn of your sons you are to redeem. And they must not appear before me empty-handed.”
Exodus 22:29,30 says: “Your full produce and the overflow of your press you must not give hesitantly. The firstborn of your sons you are to give to me. The way you are to do with your bull and your sheep is this: Seven days it will continue with its mother. On the eighth day you are to give it to me.”
I believe the Watchtower deliberately manipulated Ezekiel in the New World Translation to make people think that the idea of having the Israelites sacrifice their firstborn in the fire to Jehovah did not come up into His mind because this is how they worded Ezekiel 20:25,26: “And I myself also let them have regulations that were not good and judicial decisions by which they could not keep living. And I would let them become defiled by their gifts when they made every child opening the womb pass through the fire, in order that I might make them desolate in order that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
The way the Society worded those scriptures, it makes it look like Jehovah “let” them do it but in the King James, it clearly says that it was Jehovah’s statutes and he did it so that they would know Jehovah.
If you look up Moses in the concordance, almost every single reference to Moses is saying that the “Law” was from Moses. Only a few scriptures imply that God gave the Law to Moses.
According to Acts 7:42, it says that God gave them (Israelites in the wilderness) over to the army of heaven” and it was not to Him that they offered victims and sacrifices for forty years but it was to Moloch.
In the 300’s A.D. when the Bible as we know it was being ironed out as from God, I don’t think those people had any idea how really confusing the whole thing is and then you add in the fact that through those 1700 years, the scriptures were hand-written and many mistakes were made.
When people read the Bible, they see what they want to see. They don’t really examine it closely to see if it makes any sense.
If we take Acts 7 literally, it indicates that the whole “law” from Moses was from angels and not the “one true God.”
Another very interesting scriptures is at John 1:17,18:
“Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”
If you look at those two scriptures, it is saying that the “truth” was not through Moses and it also says that nobody saw God except for the Son and didn’t Moses claim to “see” Jehovah?
Almost all the scriptures in the Bible say “the law of Moses” and not the “Law of God” given to Moses. The Israelites were following Moses. That is who they were following and they still do today. The Watchtower insists that it was Jehovah God who gave Moses the “Law” but was it the creator God or was it angels???? Since so many of the things recorded in the “Law of Moses” are so repulsive to our way of thinking today, it would make sense that those laws were from the pagan God Moloch, doesn’t it as Stephen said at his stoning.

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:58 pm
 
Don’t fall for the Atheist recruiting Tara. Look at all their comments and their purpose for visiting this site will be made clear. Don’t break free of Watchtower lies only to fall into theirs.
Galatians 1:6-9
 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ.8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:28 pm
 
Robert67,
I resent and totally deny your accusation that I am “atheist recruiting”.
How dare you accuse me of such a lie!
You have been shown from the bible, the book you choose to believe is inspired of God, verses that expose your rude, oafish, bullying, sarcastic behaviour as unchristian. And what is your response?
You choose to slander atheists.
I am not advocating that Christians, or any adherent to any other faith, leave their religions or their belief system. I am merely presenting an alternative view. That is all.
I do not try to be master of another’s faith like you do, Robert. Is it perhaps that you believe yourself still to be an elder? Sorry, but you cannot be.
1st Timothy 3:7
Also, he must be well spoken of by people outside the church – those who aren’t Christians – so that Satan can’t trap him with many accusations, and leave him without freedom to lead his flock
Living Bible Edition
You certainly don’t have a good reputation with me. I am not a Christian. This is not your flock, Robert. The Holy Spirit has not appointed you over the posters here.
The fact that you have slandered me, despite my best efforts to entreat and exhort you politely and respectfully shows that you are far, far from the Christian you think you are.
You are no elder here, Robert. You have no authority here, Robert.
To all those of the Christian Faith who post here.
You have nothing to fear from me. I am not out to ruin your faith. I am counting on it.
We need to work together to help the children, the women and the men who are trapped inside a cult. That is why I am here.
If you want to work with me, then I welcome it.
If you want to judge me, then go ahead. Matthew 7:1-5 John 3:16 – 21
It is clear from the many posts between Robert67 and myself that there is a problem here.
Is it me?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
Robert67,
You have cursed other atheists and I?
Oh dear! You really aren’t much of a bible scholar are you, Robert?
Allow an atheist to correct you once again. Oh, the delicious irony!
Matthew 5:22
…If you call your friend an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.
Living Bible Edition
How does it feel, as an ex elder, to be publically exposed as a slanderer and a terrible Christian, by an atheist, Robert?
I don’t think that I would like it one little bit, if the tables were turned.
So here’s your chance, Robert!
 Will you humble yourself, as your Saviour humbled himself, to the glory of God? Will you apologise for slandering atheists?
By the way, how can a non belief in any deity be an alternative “Good News”? Your quote from Galatians was nonsensical, I’m afraid.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:07 pm
 
Are you done? Please read what you wrote about me originally, pause, and then read everything you just posted.
 Please read the rules if confused in anyway.
 Peace be with you :)

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:57 pm
 
Robert67 says: “Look at all their comments and their purpose for visiting this site will be made clear.”
I’m happy to submit myself to that test, Robert. I’m sure Excelsior, Ted, and Caroline would too.
At this point, your paranoid assertions are so bizarre that I’m not even worried anymore about the regulars on this site being swayed by them.
Tara asked a simple question that would have been better served by a simple answer, rather than you going off on a tangent that never even addressed her question.

 
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:33 pm
 
Oh no, don’t get me wrong. I’m just asking a question here. I believe that Jehovah found it detestable but I’m just inquiring why the book of Leviticus did say such things. I could never become atheist or agnostic. I’m just learning to ask questions. It’s a whole new beginning to be able to do that.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 10, 2015 at 4:18 am
 
Hi Tara. I appreciate that you think you started a controversy but it really isn’t about your comment. It’s about whether or not we can post any scriptures that paint God in a bad light or not.
Some think that when we point out scriptures from the Bible that paint God in a bad light, that we are trying to get people not to believe in God and that isn’t what is happening here.
I for one don’t know if there is a God or not but I should be allowed to point to scriptures in the Bible that should make anyone question whether it is “inspired” of a perfect God or not, especially when a certain topic like Abraham’s sacrificing his son comes up in the post.
Should we all accept all of those accounts as something wonderful and good or should we be allowed to question it and whether or not it was good or not?
This is not North Korea where we can’t express our thoughts or get killed. There are thousands of religions and all with their own holy books. Why should the Christian religion be the only one that can’t question their book?
I want to add a comment about something you and Robert brought up about Jeremiah 7:31 where it says something to the effect that the thought of the Israelites burning their children in the fire did not come up into Jehovah’s mind.
There is another scripture in the King James at Ezekiel 20:25,26 where it says: “Moreover also I gave them statures that were not good, and ordinances, wherein they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
Those statutes are talking about Exodus in the commandments from Moses such as Exodus 20:20 and Exodus 22:29,30.
Read those scriptures and draw your own conclusions.
This scripture at Ezekiel 20:25,26 in the K.J. is not worded like that in the NWT and that is because the Society “cleaned” it up to make you think differently. When Stephen was being stoned to death in Acts 7, he clearly said the Isaelites were worshipping Moloch during the forty years they were in the wilderness. Think about it. That scripture from the King James is from the King James printed by the Watchtower Society.

 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:46 am
 
Robert67,
You ask, “are you done?”
Yes, I am satisfied that you have judged yourself and exposed your true attitude to all the posters here.
I sincerely hope that you will learn from your Saviour to humble yourself, and apologise for the slanders you have written.
We shall see!
To answer your question, Robert, yes I am done. I have a full and happy life, and I simply do not have the time to teach you the basics of Christianity on top of my other commitments.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!

 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
Robert67,
Oh dear! Here we go again!
From this further sarcastic and passive aggressive comment, I can read that you have not paid the slightest attention to the passages of God’s inspired word, the bible, that I provided for your consideration.
Why is that, Robert?
Did the verses I quoted from the book you claim to believe is inspired of God not apply to you?
Sadly, my estimation of you is rapidly decreasing. I read your words and I am not reminded of Jesus Christ at all.
I shall try one last time to reach you through the words of the bible. If you will not accept the authority of the bible, then there is no other authority that can replace it, is there?
“If I had the gift of being able to speak in tongues, and could speak in every language there is in all of heaven and earth, but I didn’t love others, it would be of no value whatsoever. I would only be making a lot of noise.
Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude.
1st Corinthians 13:1,4,5
How is a sarcastic comment a reflection of this passage, Robert?
You bring no honour to God or Christ. You belittle and insult people who do not agree with you, in direct opposition to your professed Christian Faith. When you are politely called out on this, and shown scriptures that clearly show you are in the wrong, you ignore them and continue to use sarcastic comments in an attempt to belittle others.
Here is the truth. They only belittle you, Robert.
For the whole Law can be summed up in this one command Love others as you love yourself. But if instead of showing love among yourselves you are always critical and catty, watch out!
Galatians 5:14,15
…complaints and criticisms, the feeling that everyone else is wrong except those in your own little group…
Galatians 5:20
All scriptures are from the Living Bible Edition
This is the time for you to choose what you will do. You can choose to continue your personal crusade against atheists, agnostics and others who disagree with you, or you can choose to humbly apply the scriptures you claim to follow, and start writing comments that truly reflect your Christian Faith.
The choice is yours.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
Dear Exelcior, stop fishing for an argument. Instead of correcting the once again anti faith comments made here, you respond to the reaction to these comments.
You obviously have no interest in how these comments upset people of faith here. As a matter of fact your more than happy to join in and preach the atheist belief.
It is ok by you to run over Abraham the father of the three biggest faiths on the planet, but BigBang forbid anyone should speak up with the counter view.
The Rules:
 OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS – DO NOT post comments that are off-topic and bear NO RELATION to the page or article
RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY – DO NOT post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person’s religious beliefs (or LACK THEREOF) over those of another.
Atheism is universally recognized as a belief, a belief that there is no God. Not indifference to whether there is one or not, just the not part.
How is it that you came to believe the NOT IMPOSING your beliefs on others didnt apply to Atheist?
The subject is Doctrine and loyalty to the Watchtower. The Watchtower is thicker than blood problem.
 Not, let me see how, yet again I can trash these people’s God and hit my “I’m an atheist” shield button and no one is the wiser.
I’m surprised the moderator hasn’t done something about this sort of abuse towards the visitors of this site.
You’ve obviously misconstrued my wording in posts in hopes that the moderators still have the catfish society conditioning in them and will be swayed by your twisting of both subject and matter.
Are we at one of your old Kingdom Halls where seniority cliques run things? No we are not, this is a neutral site with clear rules. I haven’t called for the removal of anyone despite the blatant violations, only posted a retort to their subliminal recruiting. Guess what, ill continue to do so, until you and others stop the faith bashing. If my instincts are spot on, you’ll retort with what YOU the one with no faith considers faith bashing and tell us how it should or shouldn’t make us feel.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 10, 2015 at 8:37 pm
 
What a predicament. I want to stop replying to you Robert, but you keep peppering your comments with accusations that simply can’t be left as the final things said on the matter. Why do you keep doing that? Please stop doing that.
I suspect that EVERY believer on the site–except for you–understands that our simple expressions of concerns and doubts do not constitute “subliminal recruiting” for atheism.
If you see a comment you disagree with, simply counter it with a relevant, respectful expression of your opinion, leaving out personal attacks and paranoid accusations of sinister motives. Why would you not handle differences of opinion that way? Most people on this site do handle them that way.
And you listing the commenting guidelines is truly ironic. I’m sure I don’t need to explain why.
I do not want to keep talking about all of this. Nobody wants to see this issue keep coming up. Please stop making these defensive replies necessary.
Just for an experiment, don’t say anything that is a direct attack on our character or motives for awhile, and let’s see if things get better for everyone involved. Please?

 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:03 pm
 
Robert, the thing is that the account of Abraham sacrificing his son to Jehovah was a topic of conversation in this post and we should be able to tell our side of the account, don’t you think? It is within the posting guidelines.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:41 pm
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaagh all of you! Please cease and desist! I’m sorry I asked a question. That’s all it was. a simple question from a simple and honest woman! There is more at stake here than you lot bickering. Enough already. I’m going to bed now. If I hear anymore out of you all then I will put you on the naughty step. Or I may just refrain from commenting.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:06 pm
 
Tara, I ran the numbers, and you had somewhere in the neighborhood of 0% to do with this thing. And you are very much loved here by–I would guess–ALL of us, so please don’t get too distressed about this thing.
By the way, none of us thought your question was an expression of doubt, nor were any of us hoping that it was.

 
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:00 am
 
Also remember, Abraham had seen miracles with his own eyes and God had spoken to him personally. He would not have been confused, but he trusted God. He just knew that God would make it all better somehow.
That is quite different from having to obey the GB on this matter. It involves our loving our family which was instigated by God himself. Unless, he speaks to us personally, I do not see any reason to abandon our own family, how the Watchtower wanted us to. How would this be good for the human race? I suffered so much and so did my family for alienating them from me and my own family. What a bad lesson in good manners and loving kindness it was. What a life of no fun, no enjoyment and no close relationships.
We were a stressed out family counting our hours and working out how we could mix a short holiday in with our next district convention. We used to stay with my parents for that until my Dad could stand it no longer and told us we could not stay there anymore. That hurt of course. I don’t blame him. We were only there to go to the convention and we were gone all day. I feel ashamed of myself for having done this to them.
And my mother used to ring me up on my birthday and wish me a happy birthday. I always like a broken record would tell her that I didn’t celebrate it. And she would say, “Well, I celebrate it.” My poor dear Mum. How I wish she were still around to wish me “Happy birthday”. I would hug her till the cows come home. I really despise how I treated my own dear mother. There were times when I hated my life but I would not admit it.
Thank you John Redwood for writing this article with such sensitivity. It is somethng so many of us have had to live with and suffer for. We still suffer as in grief as those whom we used to love, we purposely made our love for them grow cold, we have to live with that bad memory and hope God and they forgive us for this mistreatment.
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:47 am
 
Meredith J,
An excellent point about Abraham having physical proof. The provision by God or Jesus Christ of physical proof is absolute in the bible.
Not one of those people was expected to just blindly trust a bunch of guys somewhere who claimed to represent God.
This kind of separation between what the bible actually says and what the WTBTS says the bible says is vital in the recovery of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:40 pm
 
I personally can’t figure out why anybody could have respect for Abraham when Genesis 25:5,6 it says of him “Later on Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac, but to the sons of he concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts. Then he sent them away from Isaac his son, while he was still alive, eastward to the land of the East” and this is after Abraham was such a coward and showed no faith in Jehovah when two times he said that Sarah was his sister instead of his wife because he was afraid for himself. But, when Abraham and Sarah were sent away by these kings, those kings loaded him down with all kinds of animals and slaves and servants and silver. That is how Abraham got so rich.
The man was perfectly willing to offer his son Isaac as a burnt sacrifice to Jehovah which shows that Abraham did not look at this as an unusual request or unusual. Isaac did not know what Abraham’s true intentions were because Isaac asked where the sacrifice was.
So, the guy was a liar and a coward and would have killed his son at hearing the voice of the “true God” through an angel.
Genesis 22:”By myself I do swear’, is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of the sand that are on the seashore, and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed, all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.'”
So, it seems that those people thought that Jehovah would have been pleased if they offered their children as burnt sacrifices to him. How else could anybody take that account to mean? As long as they were willing to kill their own children, that would show how much they loved God. The Watchtower society seems to think that we also need to be that loyal to God but that kind of loyalty is insanity.
According to Jeremiah 7:22, Jehovah did not speak with their forefathers or command them in the day of bringing the Israelites out of Egypt, concerning whole burnt offerings and sacrifices and according to Acts 7:43, all the time the Isaraelites were in the wilderness, they were sacrificing to Moloch.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ilidio says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:01 pm
 
Your article talks about this date “found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study “”found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study” I dont think we have come to this date yet? Have we?
Reply
 
 Jane Redwood says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:53 pm
 
The Watchtower releases the magazines months in advance. The referenced article was released last week and is dated Feb 2016. 😉
Reply
 
 
 
 da' says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:20 pm
 
The sadness lies in that families are torn apart it seems on every level, in every situation. Most sadly when a family member faces and succumbs to death and the outsider (df’d da’d) is not welcome to visit even prior to their death. This was my situation, my sibling , close to death, and when I requested to visit , the answer was “NO”. He’s gone now and now his family is reaching out . My reply is “NO” ! No, I don’t want to talk to you.
Reply
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 6, 2015 at 4:50 pm
 
Excellent article, so much I could say about this. The part that stood out the most to me though was the five pictures and the whole spy network thing. It’s incredible to me that they don’t extrapolate this principle to include the mandatory reporting of sexual predators – by their own standards they stand condemned. Talk about straining the gnat (not to mention incredulity) and removing the splinter from other eyes with the sexual abuse rafter lodged firmly in their own, not to mention disregarding the weightier matters. If I could change the five pictures to make them more relevant I would do this:
 Picture 1 – A young witness child being sexually abused.
 Picture 2 – That child as a dysfunctional adult, confused, empty, depressed, suicidal, unloved.
 Picture 3 – That same adult finally having the courage to go to the elders and expose their abuser after years of broken relationships, alienation and mental and emotional anguish.
 Picture 4 – The victim having to confront their abuser in the presence of two elders who sympathise with the accused because they deny everything and there is only one witness.
 Picture 5 – The predator sitting at the meeting with the elders and other families with young children, smiling, Watchtower in hand….
If there is any doubt that these men are truly delusional, this Watchtower magazine should dispel that. To think that this is the latest spiritual food – Feb 2016! There is no sign of progress here, quite the opposite. My personal feeling is that as they increasingly lose their grip on reality they feel the need to tighten their grip on everybody else they control.
Reply
 
 John freeman says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:13 am
 
I feel the same about the spiritual food .in the past at least there was dissusion about deeper things .however most if not all WT studies are now just about the GB s interpretation of moral issues and tightening thier grip on the sheep. The tactics are showing these men to be the stumbling blocks jesus spoke about . Im also begining to think they constitute the ” man of lawlessnes”
Reply
 
 
 
 enlightened now says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:24 pm
 
The problem is when anyone is part of a “high control” religion, personal individual thought that could lead to personal decisions are not only not encouraged but are actively encouraged to be suppressed.
 I remember well many years ago when my husband was an elder and we lived over the road from another elder and their family. It was Guy Fawkes night ( live in the UK) and my husband had decided to take us out to watch fireworks in the nearest town from our car (. Not paying to see an event) and my children had conveyed this information to the other children of the elders family over the road.
 Well all hell was let loose!!!!! The elder had my husband up before the other elders saying how wrong he was in doing this and how “pained and disturbed” his children had been knowing they were not allowed to go and see fireworks because as witnesses we should not be part of a plot to burn down the Houses of Parliament or celebrate Guy Fawkes being burned!!!!!
 My husband was to say the least enraged by the narrowness of the other elder over the road but we all had to comply – like it or not – so no freedom of choice. Eventually my husband stepped down front serving because of total petty mindedness and unreasonableness.
 I stopped going many years later and so did he eventually and although we split up we have both found true peace and happiness being who we truly are – not having to conform completely and constantly to others whims and wishes.
 Thank goodness!!!!!
Reply
 
 
 Susan says:

 November 6, 2015 at 6:45 pm
 
Excellent article that unfortunately sums up my childhood as well. The line in the Watchtower from “Anne” whose mother was disfellowshipped annoyed me the most from what the JW organization does: “Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude.” What a bunch of garbage. Nobody cuts themselves off from their family by wrongdoing – only a cult would try and justify their despicable behavior in that manner AND try and twist it to make it seem like it is you shunning them. If that were the case, then why was the mother seeking to contact her daughter in the first place? I’m so glad you found your way out of this messed up organization.
Reply
 
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 November 6, 2015 at 7:14 pm
 
The section on “The Abraham Principle” is spot on. That story and how the WT uses it is perhaps one of the powerful persuasion and control tools uses to condition the rank-and-file.
I, too, always had trouble reconciling the story, until I applied a different key Watchtower principle. That is “The Two Witness Rule.”
I realized that there was no one at the incident portrayed except Abraham and his son! There was no “second witness” to substiate what did or did not take place with that helpless child at the hands of his own father, who was like the Elder of all Elders who would ever exist.
So without that second witness I just cannot form an opinion on that incident, or use it as a basis for understanding anything then or now. It’s just a story. Just another story.
Thanks Watchtower for clearing that up!
😉
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 6, 2015 at 7:29 pm
 
The problem here is that stupid people listen to these guys. I have uncles and cousins that faded away. I never stopped associating with them. My brother and sister got disfellowshiped and I still called them and associated with them. I guys weak people need to be told what to do. As a young boy at the meetings I always thought who are these people telling me what to do. People should follow what they think is best. You don’t need another person telling what to do. I love how they got this new music. One of our new elders who listen to metal music was tapping his foot to the new pioneer song. What a hypocrite. I know he doesn’t really like the music. It was hilarious.
Reply
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:09 pm
 
I was surprised to hear, in the last convention, the words “Are you still spiritually weak that you need someone to tell you right from wrong? A spiritually strong person can discern for him or herself right from wrong” (something along those lines). I thought how great it would be for the organization to relinquish control over to the congregations and individuals, but sadly it is not the case. The speaker that day spoke truth. “There’s nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so” (W. Shakespeare). Too bad the vast majority, as it seems, are too afraid to think for themselves.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:15 pm
 
“The problem here is that stupid people listen to these guys”.
When you have a group of men making bold claims that they are God’s only spokesmen on earth today and that this is God’s spirit-directed organization, how can it be said that “stupid people listen to these guys”?
Well obviously you don’t believe that they are guided by God’s holy spirit as they claim and that they are God’s only spokesmen on earth today. Kudos to you! If only the other 7,999,999 JWs could realize that they have involuntarily become captives of a concept (www.captivesofaconcept.com).
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:45 pm
 
But they are just men. Imperfect men living off of other people. Never felt that they were like the pope an infallible. I don’t think they ever said they were infallible.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:13 pm
 
Markie, they make a point of saying that they don’t claim to be infallible but spirit-directed. So, then what is the difference?
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 7:51 pm
 
Good question Caroline.
And if they are not infallible then why disfellowship/ disassociate persons for taking a blood transfusion? Why disfellowship a person for opposing their teachings? For that matter, why disfellowship anyone for any reason at all?
Why denounce other religions as false, Satanic and evil and that they will be destroyed by God since their own fallibility would very well mean that their religion’s teachings could be false as well? Why insist that they have “the truth” and everyone else is false since they are fallible?
 Why do any of these things if they are fallible?
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 11:45 am
 
@Markie,
This is what the Bible states would happen when you are spirit-directed:
“But when he, the Spirit of truth comes, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come” (John 16:13).
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 November 6, 2015 at 8:01 pm
 
I fear for my nieces and nephews. My brothers and sisters are all too willing to obey every command. I wish I could be there for them, but returning to the meetings and having to sit through mind-numbing misinformation is hard enough as it is while getting the stank eye from those sitting around me. However, for them, I at least want to stay so that, in the events of their awakening, and the result of shunning, they can come to me and know I won’t judge them and I can show them the love they are meant to enjoy unconditionally. I really loved this article. Thank you
Reply
 
 
 Darlene Alexander says:

 November 6, 2015 at 9:36 pm
 
Awesome article, John! Where you said, …. feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.” OMG, that is so true, the modern JW can’t support their faith anymore. I comment on several fb pages and news pages where JWs are also commenting – they can’t even answer a simple question – or they just cut-and-paste and answer from the WT. They know nothing about the org they claim is the “truth”! You ask them to prove something and they say, “go to jwdotorg”! It’s so pathetic.
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:22 pm
 
Thanks John for your hard work. Nice writing!
 We are grateful to you.
 G
Reply
 
 
 Tommy says:

 November 6, 2015 at 10:51 pm
 
Thank you very much for this article. Profound indeed!
Reply
 
 
 just asking says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:06 pm
 
Why do I feel I belong to this kinda reasoning?
Reply
 
 
 Willows says:

 November 6, 2015 at 11:25 pm
 
When the Watchtower can extract the rafter in their own eye, then perhaps they will know how to extract the straw in their brothers eye.
From 1879 the Watchtower has printed and taught false dates to followers and the public in their publications. Shown disloyalty to God by running ahead and printing their own ideas only to be proved false in time. Sweeping these matters under the carpet…. If a publisher did what they do showing no repentance they would be judged, disfellowshipped and shunned.
When the Watchtower look at themselves in the mirror, and ask, how many have they disfellowshipped knowing full well they are guilty of sin. The rafter remains in the eye. So history has a way of repeating its self. The merry go round keeps going round and round till you get off and gain peace of mind.
Reply
 
 
 John Baptist says:

 November 7, 2015 at 1:25 am
 
John just a little constructive criticism. Your article goes on and on. I got 3/4 through it and said I get your point already. Many former JW”s know these dynamics of what was taught to begin with. We don’t need to have such in depth rehashing of what we already know. The point is redundant at best.
 Haven’t we all had enough of this indoctrinating religion? Sometimes you got to just let it go and move forward with your life. Why alow these false religious adherents to rob you anymore of your time and joy. I notice lately a lot of long self serving and long winded comments to a lot of articles posted here. To this I say get over it and move on. Shouldn’t liberation from this Cult religion be enough to seek happiness and peace withen yourself?
 People suffer enough from PTSD when they leave this religion. And it certainly is evidenced by the many comments through out this site. Take it for what it’s worth even if you don’t agree. Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance.
Reply
 
 MDM says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:49 am
 
@John Baptist
I sometimes think it should be easy to “Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance.”
This might not be a difficult task for those who were a JW for a short time.
Some of us were raised in the JW org and the teachings/way of life are so deeply ingrained in our entire way of life that sometimes its difficult to make it through the day without having a flashback. Example: I dislike Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. Why? Those use to be the days I went to the meetings. It has been 7 years since I have been to a meeting but I still dislike those days.
Imagine finding out that almost everything you have been taught is a sham. Do you think someone telling you to “Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance” is really going to work?
This site and most of the comments help people like me remove those teachings/ways of life so that we can find a reasonable balance in out life.
So to you, John Baptist, I say shame on you!
@John Redwood
Kudos to you and your fine article!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:59 am
 
John the Baptist, just a little constructive criticism about your comment as well. I see you don’t like long winded comments here and you think that we should just all move on with our lives instead. Tell me something. Do you ever watch the history channel? Do you ever see anything about World War 2? There is never and end to shows about World War 2 and even movies were made about it which you can still see. Why is that? Do you think that the world should just move on after World War 2? I guess in your way of thinking a half hour show about World War 2 about fifty years ago should have been enough and the people should have just moved on.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:15 am
 
John Baptist, simply skipping over comments that appear to you to be too long would be more reasonable than asking the commenters here to refrain from fully expressing themselves. As you know, while some have found freedom, many here are still in the thick of it, trying not to lose family and friends still in the Org. Either way, flushing the devastating effects of decades of indoctrination out of one’s mind is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Communicating freely with others who can empathize is very helpful.
But, just to throw an M. Night Shyamalan twist into my comment, I will completely agree with you that there does exist the risk of becoming so obsessed with the goings-on of our little cult that we could fail to maximize our enjoyment of the good things in life that have nothing to do with the JW experience.
So, thanks for that good point. As for the other bit, don’t get your panties in a bunch over it.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:18 am
 
John Baptist you sir reek of either a mole for the Watchtower seeking to apeace ex-jw activist or worse, a person completely indifferent to the excruciating emotional pain this cult has inflicted and continues to increasingly inflict on its members. I’m hopeing your just a person who has been able to leave it all behind yourself and is letting us know it is possible.
. Most of us still have family on the inside and have, not feel, a responsibility to help save them from this cult. The activism needs to keep increasing until this cult has nowhere on Earth to hide its true agenda and people everywhere see the faith killing dangers within.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:49 pm
 
@John Baptist
“Many (((FORMER JWs))) know these dynamics of what was taught to begin with. We don’t need to have such in depth rehashing of what we already know”…………….but persons new to the religion or who are considering joining the religion do. They don’t know as much about these things, if at all, as FORMER JWs do.
 The info on this site is for those persons as well.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:02 pm
 
When those smiling JWs go knocking on people’s doors they certainly do not talk about the controversial/unpalatable aspects of their religion upfront. Their first order of business is to get the householders hooked on believing that they can live forever in paradise as that is what cults do – they hide many of their more controversial/unpalatable practices from newcomers and prospective members. So it is good that this website puts these things out in the open.
Imagine a JW telling a prospective convert upfront: Do you know that when you become a JW you will have to spy on other JWs and that other JWs will be spying on you as well?
Reply
 
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 November 8, 2015 at 5:25 pm
 
@John Baptist – Yes, I agree with you, we have all had enough of this indoctrinating religion. Some of us are in a transitional state, having recently left. Others have been out for many years.
My question to you is, if you have moved on with your life and have no need to finish the final 25% of the article, why bother visiting this site in the first place? If you feel the information is redundant, you are free to read elsewhere.
There are many active Witnesses reading this site who are perhaps not at the same point of freedom which you have obtained. They may benefit from an editorial related to the latest Watchtower, which was one of the goals of this article.
For others who have left the organization, some articles might sound to you like “preaching to the choir.” That’s OK, not every article will appeal to every person. If you have a constructive suggestion, feel free to share it.
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:28 am
 
The congregations Jesus’ own apostles founded did in time become the Church of the Middle ages, the delusion is one of a religion somehow being ‘incoruptable’ before the end times.
 Jesus never gave any such assurance, unless I missed it.
 The birds are gobling the fruit’s of the mustard tree now, tares are ckoking the wheat, NO religion is exempt. we were warned by the Christ himself many times. Acts 17 v 11.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:32 am
 
The congregation the Apostles established split thousands of ways before the Middle Ages and there are now tens of thousands of different Christian denominations or factions of that first. You have to keep in mind that Jesus thought the way to live and salvation through faith in him and his father. He never mentioned any religion, nor did his apostles.
The only thing that comes close to a religion being pushed by one of them is in James 1:26,27
 If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile. 27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Jesus himself said in John 14:5,6
Thomas said to him: “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (nothing there about a publishing empire replacing the Christ as middle man, between us and our creator)
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:24 pm
 
I would just focus on the common denominator in Jesus message to all who would claim to follow him and what all versions of Christianity preach, even though they may not practice. Love God, Love your neighbor, share his message of love and hope for a better tomorrow.
Reply
 
 Reader says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:31 pm
 
Could be that the only model given is the congregation ‘a people gathering’.
Revelation 2 & 3 describes congregations we would see as different religions mostly all with good and bad points.
 We could see all congregations or even persons as being similar to one or other at various times.
 Middle ages-Thyatira
 Has IBSA become an Ephesus?
 None beyond saving none above condemnation.
Reply
 
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:06 pm
 
Robert67,
“If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile”
The difference between the words you quote and the words you write is at times truly astonishing.
Accusing people of being WTBTS agents for voicing a different point of view! Accusing people who disagree with you of being akin to Nazis!
Of course, you can continue to do as you please, but if you want any credibility, You should start to actually APPLY the scriptures you quote to yourself first, in line with Matthew 7:1-5
In your defence, you did apologise on a different thread for another infringement of the principles you follow. That, sir, is to your credit.
I shall leave you with this scripture to prayerfully consider.
“But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control; and here there is no conflict with Jewish laws.” Galatians 5:22
Your passion is evident in your comments, and it’s good to be passionate about such serious issues as we discuss in this site. However, you and all of us need to learn to control ourselves and read through our comments before we post them. Ponder whether they exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit that you sincerely seek in your life.
I am confident in your sincerity and so I shall look forward to positive, loving and uniting comments from you in the future.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
Stop recruiting for Atheism we can see your and Caroline’s post go far back always deviate from the topic and center on converting visitors to your atheist belief. No one is falling for your side show.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 8, 2015 at 4:37 pm
 
My comment was about admonition to the Congregations in Revelation 2 & 3, these were established groups. My comment also simplified as in R 2 & 3 one congregation has nothing good said about and one other has nothing bad.
Warning in Matthew 24 are to individuals about future individuals.
I have noticed that some comments seem to loose a word and sometimes another word may double, mine and others.
Reply
 
 
 
 Sarah says:

 November 7, 2015 at 5:00 am
 
Terrific article. May the people ‘wake up’ in droves.
Reply
 
 
 rikos says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:02 am
 
Yesterday i heard from a local radio station that 2014 in europe 18 millions children have be sexual molested and abuse from the family members, and from strangers. Many thousand have died because of the safering.
 who knows how many was from jehovah witnesses homes?
Reply
 
 SIRIUS says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:47 am
 
It’ll be quiet interesting as the wave of immigration from Islamic countries permeants European society bringing their version of the “only true religion” and “one true god” upon the masses. I’m wondering since devote JWs like to practice avoiding worldly attachments will they morph into non-assimilation? By the way speaking of child abuse and those living in the UK, any new news of the abuse cases in Birmingham?
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:56 pm
 
@SIRIUS The Islam version of a site like this http://www.falseislam.org
Reply
 
 
 
 
 rikos says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:37 am
 
Thank you for the article it is very well documented.I can sympathize with the people have lost their relatives. I am just drifted away for numbers of years. I have two children, the one i haven’t see for 17. The second have cut ties with me for number of years. A new baby was born but i don’t think i will see the new grandson to the infinity. And i do believe because of the new instruction from the february watchtower 2016 even the relatives have to report to the elders any indication for apostasy, sone i will see the elders at my door steps.
 But I feel very determent and strong for what i know
 about the bible, world religion, jehovah witnesses, univers, history of christianity, this make me very confident, and strong against the history and corruption of the religious concept. I do feel very sorry for my children to be in this controlling cult.
 But the real truth is we are followers of the follower, and victims of victims to jehovah witnesses cult.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:33 am
 
Well folks this is my birthday today.All the snitchers out there you can report me because i’m celebrating my life today.No candle ,cake , drunkeness or presents, just my life. I’m glad to be alive and happy to be removing myself from a nasty cult. Guess what? since the religious divorce, i no longer feel hopeless, depressed unhappy or despair about the future. I do not claim any divine revelation but each day is a wonderful day of life good things and bad things. So snitchers celebrate with me congratulate me that my jw suicide attempts failed and i’m awake and alive. Ok if you need to stay in the doomsday cult my friends here will wish me well and understand i just needed to celebrate freedom and life. ruthlee
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:57 am
 
Happy Birthday, Ruth Lee!!!
I wish you happiness and a long life!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:39 am
 
Happy birthday ruthlee and here’s to many happy days ahead of you in freedom from the Watchtower Organization.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:49 am
 
♪♫ Happy Birthday dear Ruthlee, happy birthday to you! ♫♪ And many moreeee!
I’m so happy you survived the bad times and are still with us, Ruthlee. I just found this, and dedicate the first minute of it to you! (The rest of it is really good too.) https://youtu.be/e9Fk_1UnpH8
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:22 pm
 
Happy birthday ruthlee, can’t someone be made a fuss of for just one day of the year? We all need it. Hope you had a nice day.
Reply
 
 
 covertfade says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:31 am
 
Happy Birthday Ruthlee 😀 Enjoy yourself!
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:20 am
 
Thank you all i feel so happy to have kind words and thoughts sent to me across the airwaves love ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:34 am
 
It seems to me that the GB is getting more direct in their methods of mind control. I recall that when reading Watchtower articles in my youth, the control was a bit more subtle. Something to the effect, “Wouldn’t it be wise for true Christians to…” and then whatever action they were trying to incite.
Today it seems as if they are more direct. ‘You will do this, you must do that.’ Perhaps it is just that I have been away from it for long enough that I see it more clearly, but it seems like the GB is going for more direct control.
I believe this is due to the low increases they are now seeing and the numbers leaving the organization, which in turn is due to the availability of information through the Internet and websites like this one.
So the GB decides to institute more direct and aggressive control methods. But I am reminded of a quote from the original Star Wars movie (which by the way, during my childhood, I was told was a demonic film). Princes Leia to Governor Tarkin: “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
To draw an allegory to the evil Galactic Empire of Star Wars, the GB seeks to control through fear. It will fail.
Reply
 
 John freeman says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:34 am
 
I like to compare the GB with the Borg in star trek resistance is futile you will be assimilated. Once part of the collective one is linked to the hive mind any sort of atempt to leave is punished by being deactivated.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:32 pm
 
I call Locutus
Reply
 
 
 
 Almost Anonymous says:

 November 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm
 
Excellent analogy.
I have to agree. As they lose control and numbers are dropping the only way to try and prevent anymore defections is no longer through subtle mind persuasion, but more overt and insidious what is right and wrong.
At least before, you could always say it as a conscience thing. No longer.
As a side note. At our one day assembly with around 900 people only two were baptized and they were very old. No young ones at all.
I expect the day will come when they either stop reporting numbers in the Yearbook or just start padding them like they used to do with the Publisher hours per month.
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:44 am
 
Thanks John. Your time is well spent in writing this article.
 Such information is important in helping people from being
 deceived into joining this organisation. It’s extreme doctrines
 and demands are personality and life destroying on so many
 levels. It needs exposing.
Reply
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:08 am
 
John Redwood – Excellent! A thought provoking and well written article – I personally did not find it too long. How can you reduce a lifetime of experience into a few paragraphs? Your comments struck a few chords with me.
 I remember attending weddings of ‘worldly ones’ and staying out of the church. At my brother’s funeral I sat in church but wanted the walls to swallow me up. I did not take part in any of it, for fear of displeasing ‘Jehovah’. At my mother’s funeral at the crematorium I did not join in the songs or prayer! How the GB controlled my thinking, even when my heart was breaking.
 When my husband and I attended the funeral of a disfellowshipped brother out of compassion for the family, I was shocked when his ex-wife and daughter (still JWs) did not attend, or even send flowers. This same sister also did not attend the wedding of her other disassociated daughter. What divisions the GB have caused. What sadness.
 P.S. I have just submitted my disassociation letter of 18 pages! The research was thorough, the condemnation explicit. O.K., so the elders will probably not read it, but it got it all off my chest.
 It is also now available on line for anyone to read and I am happy to know that it may help others to escape. Surely that is what this is all about?
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 7, 2015 at 8:34 am
 
Congratulations, Bad Penny! If you’re able to post a link to that letter, I’d love to read it.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 11:40 am
 
Bad Penny, that is a very powerful letter. I hope the elders will be curious enough to read it.
Some favorite lines:
“I had always thought that Jehovah’s people should be the most well educated people on earth.”
 “But what was this, all those changes of thought, and all in one go!”
 “On further investigation I discovered an earlier edition dated 1891 when the pyramid had apparently shrunk slightly to enable Russell to come to the year 1874!”
And, “I rest my case, literally!”
Though we differ on the issue of Faith, I agreed with much of the letter, and I really enjoyed the expert presentation of all of it. Thank you for sharing it, and again, a sincere congratulations for finding a path to freedom!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ted says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:03 am
 
Ruthlee. When I have my night cap later on.
 I’ll make it a generous one and celebrate
 with you. Best wishes, from Ted.
 PS. It won’t be coaco.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:38 am
 
sweetness to you all with love ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 SIMPLE says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:41 am
 
John well done! The WT is a complete maximum security prison. As Witnesses we do not know whether we are Jews or Christians. Christians are no longer under Jewish laws which the GB is flaunting about as do or die bible principles. Since Jesus shot down those laws as no more relevant I do not see why the GB would use those discredited laws as propaganda to brainwash us day in day out if the GB has good motives. I therefore adopted a simple plan after I started fading. Since Jesus is the way the truth and the life I ignore any words or messages that contravene or misinterpret what Jesus said.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 7, 2015 at 3:58 pm
 
Well said Simple, I’m definitely on the same plan. No longer feeling around looking for God, while playing Marco Polo/where is God with the Watchtower. I have the manual right on my desk. I Stick to the simple instructions our redeemer gave for this life.
Reply
 
 
 
 BeenMislead says:

 November 7, 2015 at 11:51 am
 
But according to Geoffrey Jackson, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have a spy network. Here are his exact words when he testified before the Australian Royal Commission:
“It presupposes that Jehovah’s Witnesses have some sort of spy network to monitor these people, which we don’t.”
He lied !!
———————–
23 Q. Well, if the elders come and knock on the door to
 24 a member who has been inactive and sought to fade away and
 25 says, “Well, are you still a Jehovah’s Witness or not?”,
26 and the person says, “Well, no, I don’t want to be
 27 a Jehovah’s Witness”, the consequence of that will be
 28 either disfellowshipping or disassociation, won’t it?
29 A. No, I don’t agree with that, not from what I have
 30 seen. Can I just say, this hypothetical situation, which
 31 is probably one that could happen ‐ two elders call at the
 32 door of someone, they are not going to come out and say,
 33 “Hello, I’m celebrating Christmas”. It presupposes that
 34 Jehovah’s Witnesses have some sort of spy network to
 35 monitor these people, which we don’t. But if that person
 36 says, “Look, I was baptised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses,
 37 but I’m no longer active”, no doubt the elders will say,
 38 “Well, we would encourage you to return. Is there anything
 39 we can do to help you?” Now, in that process of them
 40 returning, if they feel prompted to say that they have been
 41 living a lifestyle that is contrary to what Jehovah’s
 42 Witnesses would live, then certainly we would handle that.
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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism? →
 
The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
Posted on November 6, 2015

The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control
The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control

When I was a very young boy, my grandfather died. I don’t know much about his life, aside from the fact that he was a carpenter, a policeman, and a Catholic. He was, in fact, Irish Catholic, and I suspect my father’s family took great pride in their heritage and their faith. It was a disappointment for them that during the pre-1975 years, my father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The invasive control that the Jehovah’s Witness organization had over my parents divided our family. At my grandfather’s funeral, all hope of normality was smashed when my father refused to sit with his brothers, instead electing to place himself at the back of the church, with easy access to the nearest exit.
Why would he do this? His decision was decidedly influenced by the March 15 1970 Questions From Readers, which posed the question

“May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?”
The phrasing of that question in itself diminishes the thinking ability of the reader and transfers control of one’s life to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The article casts aside the faith of the individual, suggesting that attending a church service places a Jehovah’s Witness in serious danger of violating his Christian conscience.

“Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided.”
Only recently did I come to understand the permanent damage that this caused. For the balance of my childhood and to this day, I never got to know my uncles, my aunt, my cousins, or anyone else in the family. In a sad twist on the words attributed to Jesus below, my extended family became strangers who purportedly worshiped God incorrectly, or so I was led to believe.

“Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” – Luke 12:51
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes no apology for splitting apart families; in fact they summon Jesus’ words to reinforce their divisive policies. Luke chapter 12 continues:

“For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”
Undoubtedly, self-imposed estrangement is not the intended meaning behind these expressions, but for the Jehovah’s Witness religion, they mean just one thing:
Blood is not thicker than Watchtower
It has been nearly 40 years since my family was fractured by the policies of this organization. Instead of a softening of rules and regulations, the Governing Body has elected to double down their doctrinal directives, expanding their influence using the power of suggestion and crowd manipulation to achieve control of their flock.
An example of this control is found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study edition. The article “Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah” drives readers to the conclusion that loyalty to the suggestions of the Governing Body is equal to loyalty to God.
We encounter Olga, a Jehovah’s Witness wife and mother who has suffered at the hands of her non-JW husband, a man who “abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.” The Watchtower paints a picture of the stereotypical “worldly” man, a person without redeeming qualities and without Jehovah.
Sadly, his father dies, and Olga agrees to travel with him to another city for the funeral, showing respect for him despite his non-affiliation with Watchtower. But did she truly show this man respect? The article says:

“She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony
 ended.”
Without even addressing the subject of attending a church funeral, the Watchtower suggests that a truly faithful Witness of Jehovah would never step foot inside a church. While this statement is not the subject of the article, the powerful suggestion is nonetheless implanted into the reader’s mind, setting a precedent that must be followed.
Just a few paragraphs later, we are reminded of some of the simple pleasures in life that must be abandoned if a person is to be loyal to Jehovah.

“Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good
 things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them”
The result?

 “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
This heartbreaking story touches me personally. The endless years of alienation from my family and any sense of celebration and happiness were replaced with piles of Watchtower magazines and books that filled my shelves, but left me empty and depleted.
It is difficult for Jehovah’s Witness children to really understand what is happening to them during the formative years of their life. One by one, normal relationships and activities are eliminated, and Witness children are advised that they must be “no part of the world.”
Another way this happens is by abstaining from school activities, including healthy and stimulating sports and clubs. The Watchtower hammers down this point by stating:

“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the
 championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
 out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
For most of us who have lived the life of a Witness child, we understand what this means: no extra-curricular activities, no after school sports, nothing that might steer us away from field service and regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
 Snitching and shunning
Along with behavior modification, Jehovah’s Witnesses engage in one of the most cruel practices in modern society: shunning. The February 2016 Watchtower advances from suggestive behavior control and graduates to full-fledged punishment of anyone who violates the social customs of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members are encouraged to spy on one another, and if the guilty party refuses to confess, the elders must be notified.

“Kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties. For example, you may have definite knowledge that a certain fellow believer is guilty of serious misconduct. You may feel loyal to him,
 especially if he is a close friend or a relative. But if you were to cover up the wrongdoing, you would be disloyal to God. Of course, your loyalty to Jehovah should come first. So like Nathan, be kind yet firm. Urge your friend or relative to seek the help of the elders. If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, loyalty to God should move you to report the matter to the elders.”
In a series of 5 photographs, the Watchtower study article visually demonstrates the process:
1.Observe the social media photo of your friend committing an infraction, such as drinking alcohol at a party where non-Witnesses are present
2.Confront your friend with the photograph
3.Take your tablet to the Kingdom Hall and show the photo to an elder
4.Two elders take your friend into a private room and chastise and counsel her
5.Your friend regains her senses and is soon participating in meetings once again
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower (click to enlarge)
 
The reality is that seldom does the process occur in this manner, with step number 2 usually bypassed. But the encouragement to police each other within the congregation is very real.
Another disturbing practice is shunning, which is not limited to those who have been disfellowshipped from the JW faith. Simply leaving the organization for personal reasons results in the immediate loss of your complete network of friends. And for those who have been formally disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a total and devastating loss.
A woman might decide that this religion she was baptized into at a very young age was not the correct decision for her. But it is too little, too late to change this decision. The Governing Body has decided that her own daughter is barred from fellowship with her. The bond is severed indefinitely, the punishment is very real.

“A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5: 11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote”
There is no greater bond than that between a mother and daughter, yet the Watchtower has managed to produce a doctrinal solvent capable of dissolving the closest relationship known to humans.
I know many Jehovah’s Witness mothers who have been reinstated to the organization, superficially believing they have “returned to Jehovah,” when in fact they just wanted their family back. They walk among the congregation with the permanent stigma of judicial discipline, but take comfort that they have traded public humiliation for the ability to speak and associate with their family.
 The Abraham Principle

“Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to kill his son” – Genesis 22:10
Inflicting harm on a son or daughter is a completely foreign concept to any human with a measure of good mental health. Yet according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the biblical character of Abraham showed the ultimate faith in God when the Almighty required him to stab his son to death on a mountaintop.
Is this really a lesson in faith in God, or could it perhaps be a convenient method of demanding blind obedience?  The Watchtower study article titled “Jehovah Called Him My Friend” suggests that anyone who doubts Abraham’s decision to knife his son is void of faith. The blame is shifted from the perpetrator (God) to the critic:

“There are those who say that God was cruel for asking such a thing of Abraham, and some imply that Abraham’s obedience was blind and unfeeling. They take that position because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.”
I never could grasp the sense of this bible tale. Apparently my faith and understanding are just too weak. We are told that Jehovah called out to Abraham and halted the murder just in time. Why didn’t he apply this same life-saving power moments before the planes crashed, or the tsunami hit shore, or the crazed gunman slaughtered those schoolchildren? These are questions we must all ponder for ourselves.
Separation of church and sanity
Looking back on more than 40 years of loyal association with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I truly understand how damaged my family was by this destructive organization. I can finally validate my own feelings, my internal conscience which always told me that these things are insane:
◾Associate only with Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾Stay away from non-JW church services
◾Avoid playing team sports or joining school clubs
◾Spy on your friends and turn them in to the elders
◾Avoid higher education
◾Shun anyone who leaves the organization
◾Never accept a life saving blood transfusion
◾Do not celebrate anyone’s birthday (or any holidays)
◾Believe that God will kill everyone but Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is increasing its doctrinal control over its members, further blurring the line between religion and personal identity. They have systematically removed individual freedom of mind and conscience and replaced it with a long list of directives, leaving many Witnesses depressed, feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.
This is a prison from which you must escape.
If you share the same feelings, please reach out to someone for help. You can do it anonymously and without judgment. Read, watch and learn as much as you can, and separate verifiable truth from the insanity of indoctrination.
Make this the first day of the rest of your life.
You are now free.
 
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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism? →
 
340 Responses to The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost

← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
 
 The way says:

 November 7, 2015 at 2:12 pm
 
Thank you for the well written article. I agree with the information. Keep writing these well researched, articles, not just your personal opinions as some other sites do. The Way
Reply
 
 David Tritenbach says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:50 pm
 
Well written article demonstrating the reader has no say in the matter! You showed us how they focus on things that don’t make concepts bind, their fools! Thank you and keep up the good work!
I read the same concept in the newly leaked “Branch Answers For Witnesses Without Brains!” and nothing has changed. The key concept is always guilt or worrying your going to stumble Bipolar-Betty or Dave-the-Drunk because we don’t want to show respect for our outside friends or workmates, Heaven Forbid a Jehovah’s Witness actually acting Human!
Thank’s for pointing out how they word these questions so the reader has already gotten the official Watchtower Answer under the illusion:
“The individual Christian can personally decide whether he can, with a good conscience, attend a church funeral of a relative or friend. Since church funeral is really a religious service, many brothers prefer not to be present when the church service is in progress therefore showing gross disrespect to all onlookers because the Witness must worry whether Mad Martha or Dave-the-Drunk saw him walk boldly inside the Catholic Church to pay their deep respects(I added some of my own thoughts)”
“We avoid giving the wrong impression, stumbling weak elders or ministerial servants or pioneers! Real Jehovah’s Witnesses never want to be inside a church in case the End was to take place. Jehovah would never forgive you and by taking your own conscience, using your God given right to decide what is right or wrong based on everything we taught, its still not enough!”
“Some of your fellow Witnesses might think you were participating in a false religious service, sticking a dagger in a goat’s neck because rumors will fly if your Brothers and Sisters see you walking past a church! Please don’t attend these services, please don’t because we are so tired of your local Elder Body sending us letters trying to get you removed or justify why your COBE is able to shun anyone for any reason, please save us time and pretend you have spiritual freedom!”
“Work’s speak louder than Faith!”
Watchtower Branch Office Qs.
Galatians 3New International Version (NIV)
Faith or Works of the Law
 3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Galatians 3:1-6
Reply
 
 
 
 Jesu brother says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:21 pm
 
No one know the end when Jesus come, read Matthew 25: 31-46. As you see you cant know you are sheep or goat. Because you dont know really who Jesu brother are, because of that they ask both the sheep and goats.
Reply
 
 
 Cherie says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:24 pm
 
The scariest sentence ever written: “All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” This has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with credulity.
Reply
 
 ScotWm says:

 November 7, 2015 at 9:39 pm
 
Will the Governing Body ultimately reduce its most devoted adherents to only a few thousand? Will these faithful few openly worship the Governing Body members and do whatever they demand?
The Governing Body previously said, “We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval.” — Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition.
Then the Governing Body demanded even more loyalty when they made this endgame proclamation:
“At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. — Watchtower, Nov. 2013 (study edition) p. 20 par. 17.
With the Governing Body demanding such blind faith and obedience, the Warwick world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses could become another Jonestown.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 7, 2015 at 10:24 pm
 
They have to tighten the noose in order to prevent a mass exodus……..Mass Exodus = Capital Flight
Reply
 
 
 Lee says:

 November 13, 2015 at 1:29 am
 
You are absolutely right!
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:35 am
 
Get out the Kool aid.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:09 pm
 
Cherie, where did you get this line from? I have heard it before but I just wanted to know where it came from. It is very disturbing. Any true Christian should questiion such a line as not coming from God. I do not recall God ever making anyone do anything that he disapproved of.
Reply
 
 02Stang says:

 November 12, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
@Meredith – per ScotWm you should be able to find it in the Watchtower, Nov. 2013 (study edition) p. 20 par. 17.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 2:59 am
 
Thanks 02Stang.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 7, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
I just went on to JWBroadcasting and the back button did not work. I felt trapped, just like on one of those advertising sites where they will do anything to get you to not leave the site because you need to buy the product. I wonder if they are phishing for users. Not ‘fishing for men’ but phishing for users. ha.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 7:12 pm
 
This comment makes me smile every time I go by it, Meredith J. Very clever :)
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:30 pm
 
I’m here from U Tube. I just finished watching the Refinements in Scriptural Understanding video on JW Broadcasting. I noticed the brother never said the original understanding was wrong. The GB never say the religion has been wrong about anything. They have to much pride Pride is before a crash. I know closet apostates going to meetings. There is a Ministerial Servant in my congregation who says he no longer wants to be called ministerial servant because he says he no longer believes in titles. It could be the GB is on a slippery slope going downward. That’s how it seems.
Reply
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 7, 2015 at 6:52 pm
 
I wonder how many are like myself. I no longer believe it’s the one true religion so I’m doing a whole lot of thinking. My parents, 2 brothers, 2 sisters, 4 cousins, 1 aunt and grandmother are Jehovah’s Witnesses. I go to meetings and out in service. The last time I was out in service I irritated my partner so bad because she could tell I didn’t want to be at the door. It’s not to bad. I’m not complaining. My parents moved close to the grandchildren so I’m moved into my own apartment here close to my job. They understood I don’t want to move. I notice there are active JWS who comment here. I have a lot in common with them. I’m not going to estrange myself from my family. I don’t feel any need to do that. It’s great to see I’m not alone. We could write a book.
Reply
 
 Jude says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:17 pm
 
You are in a very small minority of people who don’t have to estrange themselves from their family? Btw, you do realise you are wasting your life, your youth, etc on religious make believe? Not only that, you not doing anything means you indirectly assist the wt to cause more heartache and sorrow. I’m not sure I could feel ethically and morally comfortable with that.
Reply
 
 
 Gardy says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:55 pm
 
Alexandria R You’re not alone ! I still go to meetings, field service, and even comment at the meetings at times! My mom and sisters, nieces, Nephews, and many cousins are witnesses! Anyway, I don’t know for how much time I will be able to do so but I still manage not to teach or comment on doctrines I don’t believe in anymore! Anyway, it’s very hard to believe we are the only true religion now!
Reply
 
 BG says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:36 pm
 
I agree. I stopped going to meetings because of the july broadcast. Anthony Morris said that it has been their position to go to the police in cases of child sex abuse cases, bit that very same month in australia, they were investigated by the royal commission for not going to the police! Does that not seem like an outright lie to you? Then there is the whole double talk about paying back loans that they had “cancelled”. How can I ever trust them again?
Reply
 
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:15 am
 
Alexandria – I was like you and can understand why you won’t fade. But really, until you do you won’t be free. I feel such a weight lifted from me since fading.
Reply
 
 BG says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
So do I
Reply
 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 6:32 pm
 
Welcome, Alexandria R. I faded about 6 years ago, but you are correct– there are many active JWs who enjoy the eye-opening articles here and share in the discussions.
I like the part in your comment about the MS not wanting to use that title anymore. It is a good sign. There are many good people in the Org, and all we want for you folks is to at least enjoy the mental freedom that many of us have found, even if your circumstances don’t allow you to physically move on yet.
TWELVE JW family members!? Wow! Well, it’s great that you’re taking steps to educate yourself about the things that the Org doesn’t want you to know. Although doing so can be a bit of an emotional roller coaster ride, you will be glad that you did. So please keep visiting JWsurvey.org, and you would also benefit from a look at JWfacts.com.
Feel free to jump into any discussion here anytime you like.
Reply
 
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 7, 2015 at 7:01 pm
 
[post removed – Bad Penny, I understand your willingness to share your letter, but the website on which it is hosted is not supported, endorsed or promoted in any way by JWsurvey. And yes, this is entirely personal. If somebody spread horrendous slander about you, and even threatened you with physical violence, probably you would be less them impressed if someone slapped a bumper sticker promoting their business on your car. Thank you.]
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:22 am
 
Sorry, Lloyd –
I do agree with you. I didn’t realise things were so bad between you and the other team.
 It’s sad when we are on the same side of the fence and yet we can easily upset each other – I guess it was the same when we were all ‘in the borg’. Hopefully one day things can be rectified and peace will ensue between you and the other guys.
 We need each other in this battle for truth.
 Again, apologies.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 12:00 pm
 
Ah interesting Lloyd, my Spidey sense was actually tingling a bit when I got to that other site. I don’t know anything about them except that they have some videos on YouTube that can’t hold my attention for more than two seconds.
Anyway, give me Evans and Grundy all week long, and twice on Sunday. (I know there are other great folks/sites out there. I just tend to stop looking once I find what I need.)
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:42 pm
 
JB – “Spidey sense was tingling a bit”. Makes it sound like you have been a very naughty boy! Tee hee!
 I only posted the link because you asked to read the letter. Didn’t want to get us into trouble! Anyway, I’m SO glad you managed to read it before it was taken down. The more I can help to get people out of the cult the better.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:51 pm
 
It’s a very interesting letter, Bad Penny. I’m 6 years out, so I’m already thoroughly decultified. But I’m excited for anyone who can slam the door behind them with a full-blown DA letter. It’s not currently in my best interest to do so myself, and we all know it isn’t the best idea for everybody, but it seems like it would be a VERY satisfying and liberating feeling for those of you whose circumstances allow for it! Okay, I’m a little jealous…
It’s clear in our previous exchange that I followed your link, so my comment above was just to let Lloyd know that, not only do I not frequent that site, I’ve never even heard of that site before. That sounds strange probably, but only in this particular situation would I feel the need to do that. I wouldn’t want anything to do with anyone who attempted to abuse someone who has done as much good as Lloyd. Ugg, I know that sounds like shameless ass-kissing, but, whatever. It’s the way I really feel.
Anyway, your letter is simply parked on that site, and you clearly meant nothing offensive by posting a link to it here. If I ever write a DA letter, though, I will shoot for TWENTY pages, just to beat your record, lol.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 12, 2015 at 6:29 pm
 
JB – Yes, I, after fading away since May 2013, finally picked up the courage to disassociate. I fortunately have no family ties in the org. I and my husband came in from ‘the world’ and we have both now disassociated. Our son has faded. We lost any friends we thought we had in the org when rumours started about us being apostates. JWs avoid us like the plague so why would I still want to be one of them? So that is why I got the hell out of there!
 I have not been notified as to whether it has been announced; part of me would have loved to go and listen to it though, the urge to shout up “Yes! hooray!” could well have been too strong, but oh the satisfaction would have been great!
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 3:05 am
 
Bad Penny. You’ve got a lot of guts. You sound so much better than you did before when you were on here. You sounded confused but now you sound more sure and satisfied. Good to hear what you did.

 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 12, 2015 at 8:08 pm
 
Oh nice, Penny. Congratulations to BOTH of you. And it’s great that your son is out too.
I wish there was a legal requirement for them to read DA letters to the cong, or at least a brief statement written by the person leaving that touches on the reasons why. Pure fantasy, I know, but it would be nice!
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:30 pm
 
Thanks Meredith and JB –
Yes, I am more positive now, I used to get rapid heartbeat and anxiety when I saw JWs out and about, thinking whether to say something. Now I just ignore them, as they do me!
 But it’s a good feeling to cut the ties and finally feel free.
 Peace and love.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 DJ says:

 November 8, 2015 at 8:52 am
 
What has just pissed me off this morning is this question in this months watchtower on the chapter about your conscience being your guide. The question asked ‘Does my conscience move me to shun sports that are aggressive, competitive, nationalistic, or violent’? So now we can’t even play a freakin sport let alone be allowed to watch it? What are the GB thinking right now? First it’s how we must dress and groom ourselves, then who we must associate with according to “Jehovah’s commands”, and now we can’t even play a sport, which is beneficial for you. If they want to make these ridiculous, absurd, extravagant rules, they should say something about the overweight brothers and sister with clogged arteries who get on the stage and act like God would approve and tell them “Jehovah” has opinions about overeating. This is ridiculous I wish I could leave but then I would lose friends and family and I’m close to a llot of people in the religion. Who knows; maybe in a month or too the GB will give us another rule for something so freakin small, I doubt God, for those who believe in him, would actually care about. They need to be stopped as soon as possible. 2016 is gonna be an even worse year for us. I pray for all of you I honestly do.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 8, 2015 at 12:17 pm
 
John Redwood, thank you for your excellent article. It reminded me personally of times when beloved couples in the congregation (on a couple of occasions) lost a disfellowshipped child. Each time, one could see the disgusting abandonment of these couples in their time of anguish by the members of the congregation who were too afraid of going against whatever they thought the Org’s (twisted) wishes would be.
Fortunately for the bereaved parents, some true friends were more interested in the care and support of these faithful members of the congregation than they were in surrendering to paranoia. Those funerals were tense, but they were the right thing to do.
I liked picture 5 in the sequence you showed in your article. I’m imagining the things that would REALLY be going through the sister’s mind as she sat right next to the one who squealed on her. I’m guessing that she’s fighting the urge to CHOKE her into the “new system”.
I also appreciated your well-stated thoughts on Abraham, and certainly do agree with you.
Thanks for your time and effort, John.
Reply
 
 The Circus Overseer says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:30 am
 
“choke her into the new system”
brilliant!!
Reply
 
 
 Mona Millet says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:11 am
 
Ha JB! I was thinking the same thing about the picture of the sister who’d received “direction” sitting by the friend who squealed on her!! Oh, yup!! I’d be smilin’ and singin’ next to that chick all day!! Not!! :)
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 12, 2015 at 3:58 pm
 
I know, Mona! And there’s something about the look on that sister’s face that makes me just hear some nasal, Kim Kardashian voice saying, “Nnnggg ehhh aren’t you glad I helped you be more pleeezing to Jehovah?”
I’ll credit the photographer for that. They’re both lovely otherwise, and I hope they find their way OUT!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 JJ says:

 November 8, 2015 at 1:35 pm
 
Watchtower propaganda in these 5 pictures, at its finest!
 Who has ever ‘ratted’ out a friend will find that these people will never forgive you, let alone trust and be friendly again. Don’t believe that the elders are lovingly concerned either.
 This is simply a ‘snitch system’ like every totalitarian system MUST have in order to maintain its control and fear over its subjects.
 How can people be so stupid?!? Oh yeah, by going to the JW meetings, that’s how.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 8, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
The stupid people will just see this as God stepping up his efforts to keep his organization clean in these decadent last days.
Reply
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 8, 2015 at 9:46 pm
 
I know a lot of people in the cong who treat all of that as crap, & just blink an eye to it. My kids are now old enough to escape our little city & go & see more normal young ones in the big smoke, we just had the annual go bag talk,
 i pitty the guy that had to do it, what nonsense, we were joking after saying they need to add shotguns to the bag, to fight of the zombies that are going to come, oh thats right the walking dead are already in the KH.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 9, 2015 at 6:50 am
 
Bet those ‘go bags’ are beginning to stink a little. They needed to be told to get some up-to-date supplies!
Reply
 
 
 Mona Millet says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:15 am
 
Does anyone else remember when the JWs made fun of the Mormons for having supplies set aside? My friend’s dad was an elder and he actually got a “talking to” from the other elders when he set up a bunch of supplies in his basement!
Reply
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:07 am
 
Hi Anthony. I enjoyed your comments and expressions you made. I just have one curious question? I hope I am not being to nosy.Why did you decide not to participate in these conversations anymore? I wish you the very best and feel free anytime to come back and engage in this open forum.
Reply
 
 
 giac says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:24 am
 
Nice article and true in a sense too.
 Yes, as mentioned by some, there are active JWs in here. I am one of them. I believe in Jehovah and I love studying the Bible and teaching the Bible to those who wish to learn about God and the future for mankind as exposed by the Holy Scriptures. As far as the Org is concerned, I sincerily believe that there are many flaws, I have been in it since 1982, when I got baptised. One thing that makes my faith strong, it is not how the GB is explaning and flip-flopping BS interpretations of things that they construe from dates and historical dates which do not correspond to what it is historically accepted by the whole world, but the profecy of the image of Daniel. We are, I believe, in the period that will see the feet destroyed by God’s Kingdom. I believe that God’s Kingdom will take over. On the other hand I also believe that JWs are the only ones that try to do their best to advocate that Kingdom. Unfortunately, the Org is wrong about many things at its infrasctructure level and has ruined lives of those who allow themselves to be molded by it, instead of following their personal Bible trained consciences. Why am I still in the Org? Because I cannot find any other group that at global level display or try to display fellow feelings. Look at your fellow worshipers at the KH, those are the true christians who strive to make a living and read the Bible and help you when you are in distress, not the GB that sits in an office and debate on how to spend money they have not earned or how to fire those poor volunteers who wanted and believed to dedicate their lives wholesouled to preach the good news, but now find themselves in dire situations….but wait a moment!! I also believe that when Jesus comes at the GT, the GB will be accounted for not being a discreet slave, at least some of them! Another point, any time I teach or comment at the meeting about, 1914, 607 or dates which reflect the GB interpretation and I personally would not put my life at stake for those interpretations, I always say …”the WT interprets…”.
Well, this is how I feel. Greetings to all.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:30 pm
 
Giac, I appreciate your sincerity, and I suspect you are a kind and respectful person. The most important thing right now is that you seem to recognize that the Organization is not teaching truth to the extent that you would expect it to if it truly had God’s backing. If it truly was a Holy Spirit-directed organization, there would be zero false predictions, zero false teachings based on misinterpretations that have led to the death of many faithful Witnesses, and zero policies that protect pedophiles and seriously endanger children.
The question I would ask you is this: If, at the end of your life, you were to meet Jesus in order to be judged by him, do you think he would be pleased that you remained attached to an organization that has so profaned the name of God as the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion has?
There are good people in the Organization. But tragically, they have been misled by a cult. And the billions of hours in field service and millions of pages of literature in hundreds of languages mean very little when the information being spread is false.
I am personally no longer a man of faith. But, as you have retained your faith, I would recommend [brace yourselves everybody] Robert67’s approach of focusing on the uplifting and helpful things that Jesus taught, being a good person, and placing less value on the idea of there being an organized religion out there that Jesus would approve of. However, if there is one out there, it will not be guilty of the God-dishonoring sins that the JW religion has been guilty of since its very beginning.
So, if you’re able to leave without losing family and friends, then I hope that one day you will. If, on the other hand, part of your reason for staying is that your entire support system of family and friends would collapse if you did, then you have our sympathy, and you are certainly not alone. Either way, I wish you the best, and I’m glad you are part of the conversations here on this site, Giac.
I say all of this with respect to you, because I really do get the sense that you are a sincere person with good motives.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:14 am
 
giac, welcome to the site. I read what you just wrote and realise that you are in a very early transitional stage, but the point is that your eyes have been opened. And that is good.
 JB Reezner has given good advice about your situation. But I do have to tell you something that kind of knocks what you said about the Watchtower being the only one doing the right thing at the moment. I would definitely have to disagree wholeheartedly with that. If they were doing the right thing then what they produce would be good, as in Matthew 7:16 where it says “By their fruits you will recognise them”. Their fruitage is bad, just as this article has pointed out.
For the first time since I left in 2002, my daughter invited me to go along to her local church the Sunday before last. It was a new experience for her too, as she also was previously a Witness. I found the service very good. The Bible was used in the appropriate places and with good sound Christian advice. The singing was uplifting, with simple themes and the whole atmosphere was refreshing and exciting.
There was also a lot of referencing to the coming of Jesus Christ. You see a lot of other religions and individuals are on the Watch too. The difference is that they talk about Jesus a lot more than we ever did in the Kingdom Hall. And isn’t that what we should be talking about as the spirit of the anti Christ takes over? It may be in fact that the Witnesses are really out of touch in this respect and fall into that same anti Christ category. After all, they don’t celebrate Christmas and they refuse to use the cross as a symbol of the Christian faith. That could be something to be suspicious about. These people at the church were certainly not ashamed of their faith. There was no compulsion, just a simple service on a Sunday morning without anyone making a mental note of who was missing.
Anyway, just because Jehovah’s Witnesses prophecy about the last days doesn’t mean they have any exclusive rights over any other faith.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:55 am
 
“Anyway, just because Jehovah’s Witnesses prophecy about the last days doesn’t mean they have any exclusive rights over any other faith.”
The JWs do not have the monopoly on salvation as they like to think.
Reply
 
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:15 am
 
@Giac. I understand how you feel. I to was a long time JW, a former elder, a MS,I spoke at assemblies, I even Sponsored refugee JW’s from different parts of the world and stayed at my house for many months
 until they could reestablish themselves in Society, I have had the Governing body stay at my house on their visits more than once,Even recently in the last year the GB had their wife stay at my house during their visit.. My wife is still a JW pioneer, My kids were raised as Jw’s. Our entire
 family were JW’s. We would get personal invites to the annual meetings from the GB themselves..That being said I do know there are nice people in the JW Congregation. The issue with me is after I finally realized the love you talk about is only conditional it isn’t real. What kind of religion will tell members not to talk to their Mother, Father, Children family, friends etc.? I could no longer be affiliated with a group like that despite the fact they claim to be in a spiritual paradise.The other issue I had was what they teach is JUST NOT TRUE.Sure a few things may be biblical, the hope of the kingdom in Daniel the 2nd Chapter or Matthew the 6th chapter but their interpretation is just one of many about the kingdom. Many other religions believe close to the same thing about the kingdom but the JW’s are the only ones that have this FAKE 1914, 1918, 1919 nonsense that goes along with t and that Jesus “CAME” in 1914 but no one cane see him? I always doubted the 2nd coming of Jesus in 1914 and took me years to come to honest truth with it that it is just a fabrication by the WT. I can not teach that or pretend to teach it. Also,there are so many other things that they teach that is off the wall.
I think you are impressed bc you feel their is a brotherhood and you are part of something that is bigger than ourselves? I know the feeling but I believe you could find the same “brotherhood” with other groups themselves. The Mormons, the 7th day Adventists, the Pentecostals, the Church of Christ and many others have a form of brotherhood like the JW’s in that they stick together and “HELP” one another to a certain degree. Although my personal exxperience is the JW’s and especially the ORG of the WT does not help their followers very much at all exept perhaps in an extreme emergency like a flood, earthquake etc.
So how could I go to the KH or door-door and share that info as bible truth? The over lapping generation, the new teaching on Gog of Magog,the new teaching of the F&D Slave being the GB only?
 The list can go on and on from the inception of the WT until today. If the JW have the truth they should be able to prove it beyond doubt right? Gaic, I appreciate your desire to be involved and feel loved and that is not a bad thing but please remmber as I and thousands of others have realized you are only shown “LOVE” if you stay in the BOX. it is not unconditional it is very structured and very limited if you can call it love at all. You sound like a good person and I wish you continued happiness. We all find our way in this life and I am sure you will find yours at your own speed.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 12, 2015 at 6:53 am
 
Reply to Holy Connoli WOW What a history! What a pedigree. Well dosen’t it just goes to show a brother like you doing all the stuff, well involved and priveledged, and in the know with the right people STILL saw it for the false place that it is. Hats off to you HC because you could have stayed in your comfortable warm elevated place and just disruguard your conscience but you speak out. That is brave and honourable and I thankyou that you still speak out.I think this shows that all walks and ranks of life can see the lies and corruption and will hopefully escape the ruination that is the tower.ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 12, 2015 at 8:36 am
 
HC you are of true value to this site.
Reply
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 10, 2015 at 6:58 am
 
You’ve already received some good sound comments to help you think critically so I’ll add one thing in addition to that. The image in Daniels prophecy as depicted by watchtower is nothing but a plagiarized interpretation. It was borrowed from the millerites and they put their own watchtower spin on it. Don’t believe me? Look it up. That’s what most of here did to discover the lie we’ve been fed.
I would not use watchtower dogma to guide my dog let alone my life. Not anymore and neither should you.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:05 am
 
“It was borrowed from the millerites and they put their own watchtower spin on it”.
When you research the origin of the WT’s doctrines, you will find that this is the case with most of the doctrines which the WT claims make JWs unique. This point was also made by M. James Penton who researched the origin of the WT’s doctrines and documented his findings in his book: “APOCALYPSE DELAYED: THE STORY OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, 3rd. edition:
“Like the Millerites and various Adventists before them, JWs are the American heirs of nonconformist British Puritanism, and that they are more closely related to the many churches and sects of US Evangelical fundamentalism than even they or Evangelicals would like to admit.”
“If they are unique in many ways – as they undoubtedly are – it is simply because of the particular theological combinations and permutations of their doctrines rather than because of their novelty.”
A signicant portion of the JW’s teachings are nothing more than permutations and combinations of doctrines that existed prior to and during the time that their founder Charles Taze Russell was alive………I suppose it can be argued that the Holy Spirit told Russell which permutations and combinations of doctrines to choose.
Reply
 
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
I appreciate your honest comment – but you must know that if “they” knew you were on this site they’d DF you. I think you know what you need to do.
Reply
 
 
 Lee says:

 November 13, 2015 at 1:36 am
 
You are absolutely right!
Reply
 
 
 
 Mc fan says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:03 am
 
Why do many JWs try to convince people that they have studied many religions and this is the BEST or CLOSEST THING to the truth? They say things like: Of all the religions I’ve studied this seems the most sincere.
But how many religions have these people really studied?
 Did you know that there are over 34 thousand sects of Christianity alone, I have not even started on Buddhism,Jhudism or Hinduism. So next time a JW states that he studied so many religions. Ask him/her how many exactly have they studied. Of the over 34,000 groups or Christian organizations in existance, how many have you actually studied?
Reply
 
 Reader says:

 November 9, 2015 at 3:59 pm
 
Unitarian or faiths which believe the Almighty is a single person are very few, most other faith groups consider the deity a threesome of sorts.
 If you look for faiths which are christian AND worship an Almighty who is a singular person [as the Jews]…
I doubt you will meet or find more than around 20 chioces.
Reply
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:16 am
 
giac, I really don’t understand why you are still in the Organization when you realize that you are teaching lies to people when you go to service and when you answer at the meetings.
Also, you think the Organization is loving. If you know what the real history of the Organization is and if you know the Society is lying about 607 B.C.E. and you dare to tell anybody about them joining with the United Nations for ten years and if you say anything about how they misquote what people have to say to prove their doctrines and cover up for pedophiles, you will be kicked out so quick, it will make your head spin. That is okay with you?
That “love” that you think they have for you is conditional. If you tell anybody at all about any doubts you have in the “truth”, you will either be disfellowshipped or marked. What kind of “love” is that?
As far as trying to find people who will help you when you are in distress, that isn’t going to happen either. If you are having problems, they will run the other way. They don’t want to be bothered with your problems. They have way too much on their plates to be bothered with every person’s “problems” in the congregation. When they come over to “shepherd” you, they only want to hear good things.
Are you a publisher, an elder, a ministerial servant, a man, a woman? What has been your experience as to when you had problems, they came to help you? How long have you been baptized?
When you talk about how they help you when you are in distress, are you only talking about when there is some disaster and the Society stepped in to help?
They only help other Witnesses, not like what Jesus taught with the Good Samaritan illustration. If that person has insurance, they will ask for the insurance money when the insurance money comes in. They do the work so the Society can get the “donation” when the insurance company pays off. The Society loves it when a national disaster like that happens in countries like the United States. To them, all the work the brothers and sisters do (free of charge), the Society sees that as a cash cow.
Can you imagine being a person with no food or clothing and you see Jehovah’s Witnesses helping the people standing right next door to you getting good and clothing but you are not “worthy” because you aren’t in their select group (religion)?
Other religions don’t do that. They don’t ask you what religion you are first before helping you. The JW religion is not charitable.
You might look at that as a good thing, but I don’t. If I saw an injured or starving person, I would not first ask what religion they were before helping them. That is not what Jesus would have done.
Reply
 
 giac says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:11 am
 
@ Caroline,
 I got baptised in 1982, at the age of 17. I served at Bethel also, for 5 years. I also served as MS. Now I am only a publisher. I teach to people the Bible, the Good News and what Jesus commanded his followers to teach. Is this wrong in your opinion. If you consider yourself a christian you would do the same with or wothout the GB! There is no flaw with Jesus’ teachings. As far as congregations are concerned, I always found to be loving towards me and I reciprocate. I am sorry if you dod not experienced it.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 2:01 pm
 
giac, the congregation I went to was also very loving and kind to me until I discovered they were lying about 607 B.C.E. and said something to my cousin and my children and my husband who then all turned me into the elders and when they came to talk to me, I told them about it and they took away the call in pass code for the meetings and slandered me throughout the circuit and gave a marking talk on me. Until all that happened, I thought they were my friends too. Now I know what conditional love is all about. What has been your experience when it comes to telling them about Watchtower lies?
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:28 am
 
Yes, Caroline, that used to peeve me too the way they would say “We help our brothers first and then we help anybody else”. I could never quite get that one. It sounded so selective. Apart from the occasional good turn one brother would do for another brother, which was commendable, I never saw anyone representing the Society ever open their wallet for anybody. They were a tight fisted bunch I must say. From now on giac take note of the generosity of the governing body. It’s not really that great.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 10, 2015 at 12:12 pm
 
After a particularly nasty hurricane here, when I was still active, I was put on a list to possibly get some help from the bros and sis’s with some cleanup at the place I had at the time. I didn’t put myself on the list. But before anyone came out, someone I didn’t even know called me and asked me (among other things) if I was regular in field service. Yuckkkk.
Even though it can be argued that an organization has the right to help its own people first, to have field service hours factor into the worthiness of a Witness receiving help is gross.
To be fair, I’m not saying low (or no) hours automatically disqualified ones from getting help. I just wanted to share that awkward little episode to make the point that, at that time, not just whether or not you were a Witness mattered, but HOW MUCH of a Witness you were was evaluated before you could get help.
On a side note, I actually felt a little sorry for the sister on the other end of the line because I had the feeling she was NOT enjoying being stuck with that particular “priviledge”.
Reply
 
 
 
 Kat says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:19 am
 
Mac fan they will probably bring up the trinity.
Reply
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:09 am
 
I feel like I know you…maybe I do…….but you have just described my life…with all its fears….social and emotional deprivations…and the feeling of never knowing unconditional love…. Im a prisoner John but like you my mind is free…. sometimes its not enough…thank you.
Reply
 
 
 RunFromTheTower says:

 November 9, 2015 at 8:53 am
 
Thank you John for writing and posting this great article. We couldn’t make this stuff up. You covered so many points; exposing the evil WT organization and the detrimental impact it has on family.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:25 am
 
Giac,
*What is the future of mankind as exposed by the holy scriptures?
*Have you ever done your own research to find out the number of persons who have been born over the last 2000 years? If all of these persons were to be resurrected on earth, how many persons per square kilometre would there be given that there must also be land for non-residential uses such as food production, forests, hills, mountains, valleys, recreational areas, industrial activity, transportation infrastructure etc.? Would the number of persons living per square kilometre be ecologically sustainable?
*What would this mean if all of the dead since mankind’s beginning are to be resurrected on earth, will they plus all the JW Armageddon survivors fit? Would the number of persons living per square kilometre be ecologically sustainable?
*Would the earth look like what is portrayed in the WT’s depictions of the new system – luxury houses separated by many kilometres of parkland, a paradise of sparsely populated tracts of land, filled with smiling children living in mansions?
*Since no one will be dying in paradise and given your answers to the questions above, will there be room for any children given that:
 1. the WT’s depictions of the new system show that children will be living on the paradise earth?
 2. Isaiah 65:17- 25 which is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth states in verse 23: “They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth CHILDREN for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, and their OFFSPRING with them.”
*Are there scriptures which state that the earth will NOT last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
*Are there scriptures which state that the earth will last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?
*What proof can you provide that we are living in the period that will see the feet of the image in the book of Daniel destroyed by God’s Kingdom?
*If you feel that life was better in the past compared to today, which century would you pick to live in?
*What will happen when God’s kingdom takes over?
*What else will happen apart from the accountability of the GB when Jesus comes at the Great Tribulation?
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:16 am
 
******If you feel that life was better in the past compared to today, which century would you live in AND WHY?
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:27 am
 
@dee. Hi Dee, in response to Gaic i think we need to let him find his way on his own terms. I know we all mean well and we all have had different measures of pain with the WT and being JW’s. Some have had extreme pain and some enjoyed their JW life but just realized it just isn’t true and could no longer go along with a fake lie and story and follow a cult. Gaic isn’t there yet so personally I think we should let him experience at his own pace. As far as all your scriptural questions there are many that talk about a New heaven and new earth where their will be no more pain and no more suffering we all know that from being JW’s and from reading the bible. Of course everything is subject to interpretation and this is not the place to argue doctrine. I am sure Gaic will find his way in his own time. We are here for support of people like him and others as well. I know Caroline also has had some bad experiences in the JW world and you as well and I myself have had lot’s of pain dealing and trying to sort out the JW lie so we all move at a different pace.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 3:27 pm
 
@Holy Connoli
I thoroughly agree with you that we need to let Giac find his/her own way on his/ her own terms. Allow me, please, to explain why I asked Giac those questions.
I have come to realize that many JWs (including myself) get lured into the religion because they come to believe that they will live forever on a paradise earth. I have even heard some JWs say that living forever on a paradise earth is more logical than going to heaven. This belief traps many persons in the religion and once hooked on this belief nothing else matters, they then accept everything else as gospel without question or they dismiss the lies, ever changing doctrines and false prophecies etc. of the GB as being due to the GB’s fallibility and after all, only the Pope has claimed to be infallible (but nevertheless this is still Jehovah’s organization).
They do not see the lies, false dates, false prophecies andvever changing doctrines etc. as a reason to leave the JWs. Any subsequent ‘refinement’ or revision of the JW’s doctrines is not a turn-off for them because the GB has never claimed to be infallible. The thing that matters the most to these JWs is that Armageddon is coming and they are never going to die but will live forever on a paradise earth.
Most JWs believe the WT’s promise of a paradise earth without doing their own research to see that it is not logistically possible for all the resurrected dead since mankind’s beginning plus the JW Armageddon survivors to fit on the earth and that this perhaps explains why Christians believe they will go to heaven.
Many after being shown the scriptures that the earth remains forever succumb to the WT’s mental gymnastics and accept that this is so and dismiss those scriptures which state that the earth will not last forever as being figurative. Getting persons to believe that the earth will remain forever is crucial if they are to believe that they will not die but will live forever on a paradise earth.
I therefore find it necessary to not only help JWs see that the GB has made false predictions, told lies and their ever changing doctrines but to also help JWs to see that the WT’s promise of a paradise earth is not possible as this promise is what traps many in the religion.
Regards.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 9, 2015 at 9:27 am
 
I no longer believe in organized religion. I read the Bible on my own, talk about God and Jesus to others and have some good discussions.
I realize that some people need the structure of organized religion and I do not fault them for that. But I do not believe that the JW religion is the Best or Closest thing to the truth.
I believe that there are so many good people within the world, some belong to organized religions, some don’t. Jesus died and sacrificed for everyone – not for just those of the witness religion.
But the witness religion still believes they are the only chosen people and have the truth – But other religions believe they are the only chosen people. God knows who his chosen people are – men don’t have that insight – in my humble opinion.
Reply
 
 
 Rae says:

 November 9, 2015 at 1:18 pm
 
Good article, John. Until finding this website I was not aware of the number of silent sheep suffering behind the walls of the Kingdom Halls. Fear is such a wonderful thing. I’m sure that Jesus and his disciples used such tactics to keep their people in line too.
As bad as it is, I think this doubling down by the GB is a good thing. The closer an organization is to crumbling the more radical it becomes, the more oppressive it acts. Obviously the seams are coming apart on Star Ship Watchtower and its officers are franticly attempting to salvage whatever they can before it comes apart.
Yes, great harm is being caused by the dictatorial enforcement of non-biblical policy, ruining many lives in the process. May it soon end. At present we cannot stop the devastation that creates, but we can be there to assist the victims who greatly need our support.
While it’s true that many who leave Jehovah’s Witnesses lose believe in God, there are others who have given up on the Society but still hold belief in a higher deity… creator. Our battle then should be against the ruthless antics of the GB and the cancer they spread by false reasoning (dogma) and bullying threats.
Fear of eternal damnation keeps lots of people in line… not just witnesses. If we can somehow mitigate that fear down to a reasonable level, it may be possible to help a person get his or her life back. If we can help those persons wake up to the true power in their minds and the resilient spirit of their hearts… that there is a fulfilling life out there after Watchtower… it can go a long way to assisting with their recovery, and their taking the needed steps to get out from among them.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 9, 2015 at 3:04 pm
 
Lately what’s being demonstrated by some on the site is that without the Borg, you’ll eventually become a bitter Bible and its God thrasher. I hope people visiting this site don’t judge it by those comments.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
@Robert67:
Just wondering, what do you think of the comment posted by “RC” regarding the god of the Israelites and Abraham?
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:50 am
 
It wasnt a different God, just Elohim(hebrew word for God) If you read chapter 3 of Exodus there you have Elohim telling Moses that he was the Elohim of his forefathers and Ehyeh-Asher-ehyeh ( I AM) eventually in verse 15 when Moses wants a specific name to represent versus just Elohim( hundreds of Elohims worshiped in his day) or ehyeh-Asher-ehyeh showing bad grammar on his part, Elohim tells him that he is Yaweh, that is his name for all generations. Today some translate it as Jehovah, which I use, but also my God or my Elohim.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:12 am
 
Hi robert67,
 just have a look at this link. You may not agree with it but you may get an idea
contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 12:23 pm
 
@RC, very interesting notions on the possible origin story of the Southern tribes of Judah, I like the fact that atleast their existence at that point and time is acknowledged, unlike many other sources.
As far as the argument of the later compilation and motives for these, well, I know for a fact that I could destroy the entire biblical explanation by just tweaking here and there and inserting whatever hypothesis my imagination can conjure up. I don’t because I do for a fact believe in Christ and his word and he acknowledged many of the far flung narratives of the Hebrew Scriptures as being fact.
Luke 24:27,John 5:46,47 Jesus confirms Moses as author of the law.
Mathew 13:14-15 Jesus confirmed Isaiah as author of book of Isaiah
Mathew 24:15 Jesus confirmed Daniel as author of the book of Daniel
Mathew 19:4,5 ; 23:35 Jesus confirmed Adam and Eve as real people
Luke 17:26-28 Jesus refers to both Noah and Lot
John 8:56-58 Jesus confirms Abraham
Mark 10:6-9 Creation
Mathew 24:37-39 Great flood/ice age
Luke 17:29,32 Soddom and Gomorah
John 6:32 Feeding by Manna
John 3:14 Curing by serpent
Luke 4:25-27 Elijah and Elisha
Mathew 12:39,40 Jonah
In Mathew 4:4 he said
“It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.”
I cannot place the utterances, as well collected as they might be, of a man over those of what I have come to know as Gods word.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:07 pm
 
Robert, you confirmed what I was saying about it being men who wrote the Bible when you put down the scriptures where Jesus confirmed that Moses wrote the law and Isaiah wrote Isaiah and Daniel was the author of Daniel. Jesus didn’t say that Jehovah God wrote the Law and it wasn’t God who wrote Isaiah and it wasn’t God who wrote Daniel. Also, that is why the Hebrew Scriptures are very important to the Green Scriptures, as per the rest of the scriptures you listed. Without the Hebrew Scriptures, the Greek Scriptures are meaningless.

 
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:06 pm
 
@Robert67:
My question is with regard to “RC’s” comment made on November 6 at 2:53 pm.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 10, 2015 at 4:58 am
 
Robert67,
Yet another slander against us atheists, packaged in a passive aggressive comment.
I have at no time been a “bitter bible and its God thrasher”. That is a slanderous lie.
On the contrary, Robert, I hope that sincere Christians visiting this site are not stumbled by your unchristian behaviour!
It is you, Robert, who is a “basher”. All I have done is politely and respectfully highlighted for all the posters here your true, unchristian character, by contrasting your words and behaviour on this site with scriptures from the Holy Bible.
You have not had the courage or courtesy to address me directly, as I have with you.
You have not provided a rebuttal to my use of verses from the Holy Bible, and you have clearly not applied any of them, as you continue to slander atheists.
As you have absolutely no respect or regard for the teachings of Jesus Christ, or God’s word the bible, I am at a loss to describe you, Robert.
You certainly are not a Christian. You do not love God. These facts are clear for all to see. 1 John 4: 20
If anyone says, “I love God,” but keeps on hating his brother, he is a liar; for if he doesn’t love his brother who is right there in front of him, how can he love God whom he has never seen?
Living Bible Edition
Again, I would like an apology, please.
You have lost any credibility with me. You have confirmed to me that you are nothing but a sounding brass.
Why don’t you answer me directly, Robert?
Why don’t you give me your opinion on the scriptures that I quoted, Robert?
You really are making yourself look like a fool, Robert, I hope you comprehend that.
I await with interest, your direct response to my scriptural councel, rather than another tiresome, unchristian rant and slander against atheists.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:28 am
 
Sorry, folks, Robert67 accused us atheists of being “thrashers” not “bashers”
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:37 am
 
Still true. I do owe you one last response. You obviously have no clue about scripture, all it functions as for you is a stumbling block for yourself and a weapon to stumble others.
2 Timothy 3:16,17 as overused as it is by the WT states:
16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the MAN OF GOD may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
You are NOT a man of god, therefore what is written in it is not for you or your use.
The Bible in its entirety was not written to us, but for us, with the exception of Christ Gospel. Your just as guilty as the WT of trying to add meaning and interpretation to what is written in it.
You and others visit this site to twist scripture to indicate otherwise. Just like the WT cult, you prey on people with questions with the sole purpose of creating doubt in Gods word.
With this I fall back into the subject of this helpful article out of respect for its author.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:29 am
 
Robert, I want to add to Excelsior’s reply to your last comment as well. You said that “we” use the Bible as stumbling block and that is true for me at least. I think there are many good things in the Bible but I don’t take it as “inspired” of a perfect god but I also see a lot of terrible things in it as well.
Most atheists became atheists because they actually did read the Bible. That is what did it for me. But I believe that most so-called atheists are actually agnostic or would “believe” if there was any real evidence for a God.
We were always taught as Witnesses that God is from everlasting to everlasting and we puny humans can’t comprehend that and so we just accepted that and didn’t waste energy trying to understand that concept.
Nobody knows how life began and there are no original written records that we can get our hands on that explain when life began or how it began on the earth (the Bible isn’t the only book that has it’s ideas of Gods and how life began. There were many gods, way before the Bible was written).
If that was the case, it would end all debate on how life began on the earth or the universe but no such luck.
To me, it is a stupid debate to spend time debating how life began. We all know it is impossible to “create” life out of nothing. Everything on the earth came from a “parent” of some sort. To me to debate, how life began without any solid evidence is futile. I can’t even imagine any God doing it. It is way too far over my head just the same as imagining God being from everlasting to everlasting is over our heads.
For Bible readers, they simply take as fact that “poof”, God made it. That is too simple for me.
I think the most important thing is to appreciate that we were given the gift of life and we should make the most of our short years on this earth and try and leave this planet, having done something good for mankind, rather than debating how it began.

 
 
 
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:23 am
 
Hi Robert67,
 When i read the Bible i see a dichotomy of sorts between God the Father as defined by Christ and Yahweh. The Old testament seems to be filled with rape, murder , torture and brutalities which would horrify any one. I think the god mentioned in the old testament and the new are different. When i see the JW quoting extensively and reading from the Old testament , it really scares me . The JW seems to have been relatively harmless when it was under Pastor Russell and Rutherford.It turned into a cult under the leadership of Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz(who by all reports was half mad. That Raymond Franz was related to this joker is for me one of life’s greatest ironies).
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:10 am
 
I can’t name one group of people living during the same time as the Moses led Israelites that weren’t living in this environment and reacting to it in order to survive. These laws were meant to conduce these barbaric people’s into an evolution of sorts as pertains to their behavior. All irrelevant in 2015, unless your in the Middle East, North Korea, Watchtower or other barbaric parts of the world that still control their polulations through force. How can anyone have a hang up on a set of laws that were written to and for a people that lived 3,500 years ago? Focus on Christ and his message.
The Law of Moses was given to point people’s minds forward to Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah-to-come. Once he did come, the Law’s purpose was fulfilled, and it became obsolete. It was not destroyed, but superseded by a higher law, the law of the Gospel. A message of love above all things, Love to God foremost and then our neighbor.
We are stuck with the burden of having to cope with a vast diversity of Christian church’s. We have learned now,that one of the first disqualifying markers for any of these is to try to kill off the integrity of another. It’s a sibling rivalry amongst Christ followers to see who can get the most attention. Again, Focus on Christ message.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 10, 2015 at 1:35 pm
 
Robert, you ask “How can anyone have a hang up on a set of laws that were written to and for a people that lived 3,500 years ago?”.
I will tell you why I have a hang up on the Law given through Moses then, since you asked why since supposedly those laws were given to Moses from Jehovah God. What those people were doing around them in those lands, should not have influenced a perfect God.
1) The law given from Jehovah (supposedly) to Moses condoned human sacrifices: Lev. 27:29, Judges 11:29-39; Numbers 31:31-40
 2) Condoned and promoted animal cruelty: Joshua 11:6; 2 Samuel 8:4
 3) Condoned incest: Genesis 20:11,12
 4) Condoned and promoted slavery: Numbers 31:31-35; Lev. 25:44-45; Exodus 21:27; Eph. 6:5; 1 Tim. 6:1,2 (lots more scriptures about slavery)
 5) Condoned the abuse of slaves: Ex. 21:7, 20,21; Luke 12:47-48
 6) Condoned spousal and child abuse and abortion and rape: Numbers 5:5-31; Deut. 22:13-21, 28,29; Luke 12:47,48
 7) Condoned selling of a man’s children into slavery: Exodus 21:7 (part of the ten commandments)
 8) Condoned child molestation: Numbers 31:17,18
 9) Condoned murder: Exodus 17:13; 32:27; Numbers 21:3,35; Deut. 2:33-34; 3:6; 7:2; 20:16; Joshua 8:22-25; 10:27-40; 11:8-23; 1 Samuel 15:3,7,8
The Greek scriptures are meaningless without the Hebrew scriptures. It is supposedly the Hebrew Scriptures (the Law) are what pointed the way for Jesus Christ but according to what Jesus said at John 1:17,18, the truth was not through Moses:
“Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”
Moses claimed to see God but according to Jesus, no man has seen the Father.
Was the Bible written by men? There is not even one time in the whole Bible where it says that God either wrote or dictated directly any part of the Bible, even the ten commandments or any of the other commandments found in the Hebrew scriptures.
To draw attention to what the Bible says, is not trying to convince anybody not to believe in God and if people want to hang on to just the Greek Scriptures, I don’t care.
I know it gives a lot of comfort to people and I don’t want to take that away from them but on the other hand, they should know about what they believe in too.

 
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:57 am
 
Hi Robert67,
 Jesus never referred to God as Yahweh. It is the JW who have inserted that in the NWT 237 times in the belief that since Jesus had spoken of the God of Abraham and Issac , it is right to assume that the word “Jehovah” was used in the Greek Scriptures initially and so they were thrilled to discover that they after 2000 years were restoring the Divine Name. If the JW could make this error after having so many resources , what would have stopped the early Bible writers to attribute the God of Abraham and Issac to Jesus . Remember, the Bible writers were all influenced by the sociological and political climates of their times. The Bible leads you to the Man (Christ) who leads you to God. Not the other way round.
Also you mention some cultures being barbaric in the present day. I will not dispute this however i will bring it to your attention that the JW considered the Babylonian civilization to be nothing more than savages. So it was easy for them to add 20 years to the Destruction of Jerusalem . Unfortunately for them, the Babylonian civilization was very advanced for its age as the unearthing of the cuneiform tablets show. It is now undisputed that the destruction of Jerusalem was in 587 B.C not 607 B.c .This truth helped Carl Olof Jonsonn to get out the cult. There are archaelogical discoveries being made which show that the God of the Cannanite Religion was EL , not Yahweh. Also , El (and in later days Yahweh) was mentioned as the husband of Asherah . The concept of One God started during the reign of King Josaih and solidified during the exile.
Also, Jesus born of the line of David may not have been as far flung as you may think. Considering that 5% of the world current population is descended from Genghis Khan , with the number of partners David had (probably in the hundreds) , his descendants would have really made a sizeable population of the Jews.

 
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
In response to comment, that you can’t think of one group of people who lived at time of Moses, who were not barbarians, …who was Job, Elihu, and for that matter the 3 friends. They did seem to have some respectably values.

 
 
 david says:

 November 12, 2015 at 11:10 am
 
robert67. why are you responding to people like excelsior, rc, and the rest ? they will never appreciate the things your talking about. they think your an idiot, they are drawing you into there twisted world. a lot of the people on the jwsurvey site have serious issues going on in there lifes.
your looking like a fool.

 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:25 am
 
@RC
Are you an atheist?
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:02 am
 
Hi dee,
 No i am not an atheist. I believe in God. It is out of respect for the rules of this blog i have not discussed my beliefs about God. It is when i saw the disturbing way Abraham’s story was being used by JW did i feel compelled to say something about it. Apologies to John Redwood , but i think he was really disturbed as much as i was.

 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:28 am
 
@RC
Are you an ex-JW?

 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:34 am
 
@RC
Are you an ex-JW?
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:49 am
 
Hi dee,
 sorry i have posted below my response. But no i am not an ex-JW.

 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
Old Testament time compared to ours was far different. At the time many people on earth lived in the Middle East. Life was cheap. People were worshipping false Gods and their laws were perverted. There was very little knowledge around. Morals were non existent.
Just look at what has happened in the Middle East recently and you can see what the people were like who lived round about the Israelites. God had promised a savior through the line of David. The Jews had to be protected at all costs, and protected from remaining uncontaminated with false teachings. God’s ways of doing things probably shocks a lot of people, but perhaps that was what was needed at the time. Remember there is a time for every season.
Jesus came and corrected all that stuff. He showed by his example how caring people should be of others. All the other stuff is important but that is not the focus right now. Especially now in this cold hearted world, do we need that love that Jesus lived by. Woops, sorry I’m getting preachy again. Sorry Lloyd.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:03 am
 
Ive thought about all of this and it is just a thought Maybe the whole elaborate jewish system was just to protect the DNA blood line of Jesus. All the other jews got the benefit of the law if they stuck to the rules but they mostly were just as degenerate as the tribes surrounding them. They just had more rules to obey which made them act crazy. (any parallells?).Any way if this was true JC came did his job game over the Hebrew script becomes historic and interesting but no longer applicable. So to the enlightened new Christian all those petty rules and blood lust becomes distasteful and foreign. So if we start to cherrypick the old ways and follow a few of the rules from back then, then we will start to mimic their attitude and behaviour ie brutal, vengeful, and it serves no purpose it is dead end and annihilistic.The new freedom in Christ was to liberate and centered on people working things out for themselves but as always mankind wants to dominate and control.So we are back to square one with this little sect. A bunch of sincere people who have gone mad and crazy with the endless rules and petty laws that have no bearing on christian life. To me nothing changes same daft stuff, different set of people.The only difference now is that we can break free but its a slow process and painful at times. Just a word to the athiests and the believers. Just chill stop bickering we are trying to get along with each other just agree to differ .As iv’e said before i have a strong faith but i really do like to hear what non believers think because they have a different take on the bible and have clear logical arguments which Imight have been closed to. SO lets try to keep the peace and enjoy alternative viewpoints it makes for such interesting reading and no one is going to convert the other thats not the point. thanks folks. ruthlee

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:46 am
 
ruthlee, it is so funny but the thought of protecting the bloodline for Jesus is exactly what I was thinking about last night and so I looked up the account of Judah who is named at Matthew 1:3 as an ancestor of Jesus at Genesis chapter 39.
Here is the account of how Judah “took” a Canaanite woman and she bore him three sons. Then Judah “took” a wife (Tamar) for his oldest son Er but Jehovah didn’t like Er so Jehovah killed Er before Tamar had children by Er. Then the second son was supposed to have relations with Tamar but he wasted his semen on the ground so Jehovah killed that one too.
Then Tamar was supposed to wait for the youngest son to grow up to have relations with her but Judah didn’t fulfill his promise because he was afraid something bad would happen to that boy too.
All that time, Tamar was living with her own father but was not supposed to marry another man because she was supposed to be bringing up a man child from her first husband Er.
In time, Judah’s wife died and so he had relations with Tamar (thinking she was a harlot) and got her pregnant (not knowing because she covered her face). When Judah found out that Tamar had gotten pregnant, he said she was to be “burned” (Gen. 38:24) because she had committed prostitution.
But going back in Genesis 38:21 this is what it says in the NWT “And he (Judah) went inquiring of the men of her place, saying: “Where is that temple prostitute in Enaim along the road?” But they kept saying: “No temple prostitute has ever been in this place.”
Notice that Judah wanted to have Tamar “burned” because he thought she had committed an act of prostitution, but in verse 21, Judah is asking about a “temple prostitute” that he had had intercourse with.
Did we ever pay any attention to the fact that they had “temple” prostitutes then, even before the Exodus account where the freed Israelites were to build a temple to Jehovah? Did we pay any attention the word “temple” there? Did we ever pay any attention to the fact that Judah wanted his daughter-in-law burned for prostitution, when he had committed an act of prostitution himself? Did we not see that it was perfectly alright for them to have temple prostitutes then? Did we ever think about how hypocritical and disgusting this man was who was an ancestor of Jesus?
Would a perfect God “protect” the seed of the Jews through a man like this? Why would it be okay for the temple of Jehovah God have temple prostitutes? Why would be okay for a perfect God to allow for the men to go to prostitutes but if his daughter-in-law played a prostitute, she should have been burned?
Why doesn’t the Society talk about any of these things? No they don’t. As a matter of fact, I remember not that many years ago at a district convention, they had a drama about Judah and Tamar like it was all a good thing that Judah and Tamar did. There was not a word at how disgusting a man, Judah was. Why did they do that? It was for the very same reason that you mentioned in your comment; it was to protect the lineage of Jesus blood line. Couldn’t Jehovah have chosen a better character than Judah to produce the “seed” through Abraham?
If you start bringing up questions about this to your elders, you will be called on the carpet and to “trust” in Jehovah but what they really mean is to trust in the Society instead. Whatever excuse the Society comes up with for a disgusting character such as Judah, we are to accept as the “gospel” and not to question it.
We are not to “think” about anything we read in the Bible. We are to let the Society do all the thinking for us; in other words, we have to be brain dead to be a Witness and if not and we start asking questions, we will be kicked out and shunned.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 7:31 am
 
I forgot to add something to my reply to ruthlee about the account of Judah and Tamar. Tamar was three months pregnant when Judah wanted Tamar burned. In the United States, when somebody murders a pregnant woman, that person is charged with the murder of two people (the mother and the innocent child as well), not just the one.
This is the person (Judah) that the Society decided to have a drama about at the district assembly a few years ago. I remember it well. If there was a movie about such a happening today, it would surely be rated R for sex and violence.

 
 
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:25 pm
 
Well stated! The doubling down is indeed causing many to simply walk away. It is at that critical moment that many are turning to websites like this.
 This past weekend my inactive mother in law was talking to my true believer sister in law about a faithful witness family they know. I over heard as I walked by but the family that left were faithful for years and just suddenly stopped attending meetings and service. When they were asked why they said ” the witnesses are a cult and we want nothing to do with that”. Just like that an entire family left the cult in an instant. All because the information is available for them to research but also, this can’t be minimized, because the gb are narcissistic sociopaths tightening their grip. They have themselves to blame for many leaving and they are so arrogant that they can’t see it. Like all cults they blame a scapegoat, apostates or satan.
Reply
 
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 9, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
Greetings,
Let me start by saying I realize my comment is not relevant to the article. However this is an attempt to address a couple things mentioned in the comments. I am not a defender of the org but credit where credit is due. I missed the meeting about the go bags but I’m assuming this has to do with disasters. If you live in an area prone to disasters and who doesn’t with all the things that happen, a go bag is a good idea. In the past I have assisted with disaster relief and have seen people with only the shirts on their back. At least a little preparation is a good idea. You all know the drill, water, batteries, flashlights, phone numbers and so on. Keep meds and important papers handy and ready to grab. That’s common sense. A comment was also made with respect to insurance proceeds. One disaster situation I helped with some of the witnesses thought their insurance money was so they could go on vacation. Your insurance settlement is to restore your financial situation regarding your property. When the brothers put that new roof and siding on your home you should pay for it. That’s what your insurance is for. It really doesn’t matter how the society uses it, you did benefit. The brothers also feed hundreds of volunteers that come to provide relief. Some of the friends open their homes to the volunteers so at times they receive funds to provide meals at their home. I agree the society is spending too much time asking for money and I for one don’t intend to pay for child abuse settlements, but when it comes to disasters and insurance, if you are the beneficiary of their assistance it would be most appropriate to hand the money over. Remember you can use anyone you want to do your repairs. You are not obligated to use the brothers. Ask yourself would any other contractor work for nothing. Regards
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:12 pm
 
@eyes opened
Thanks for your comment.
I think the WTBTS makes it difficult for persons to make fair comments about their financial situation as the WTBTS is averse to making audited financial statements available to the public.
 This was also evident from the May 2015 JW Broadcasting episode done by GB member Stephen Lett in which he stated that more money was going out than coming in yet no actual numbers of income and expenditure were provided so that viewers could see what the projected shortfall is.
Without the WTBTS’ transparency regarding their financials persons can only imagine and guess what is going on with donations and wonder if the GB has something to hide why the WTBTS is not transparent with its financials regarding the worldwide work.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 9, 2015 at 5:52 pm
 
@ eyes opened, here in the U.S. when Catrina struck, there were a lot of brothers and sisters who had to wait and wait until the Witnesses could come and do the work and the Society made that clear to those Witnesses that they were to wait to have the Society’s workers do the work.
I agree, that the insurance money was to go for the work and the homeowners should not have kept the money but the Society gains very much when there is a disaster like that and they benefit from all the “free” labor that the brothers and sisters put in to fix up those homes.
If fair is fair, then those brothers and sisters should have gotten the money for their work. That is my point.
The Society expects that there will be lots of brothers and sisters flooding to the disaster area to help rebuild but that work isn’t done because they are a charity. It is charitable on the backs of brothers and sisters helping out the Society, not the householders.
That work is done so the Society can get money out it by all the free labor done by the brothers and sisters. It is the motive of “helping” is my problem. They aren’t good for goodness sake. They are good for the money they can get and many times, those brothers and sisters have to wait months and months to have the Society’s free labor force to come and work on their homes. It isn’t charity. It’s a way to make money off of a disaster.
Reply
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 9, 2015 at 6:37 pm
 
Caroline You make good points. If the friends felt they had to wait on the society for repairs, that does kind of smack of greed. There is just no perfect solution. Regards
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Ace says:

 November 9, 2015 at 10:01 pm
 
Hey everyone so I had the worst Sunday this week during the watchtower study. It really made me mad and I really have a hatred for the GB now. In the September 15, 2015 study edition the chapter titled ‘Is your conscience a reliable guide’ on paragraph 12 it asks “Does my conscience move me to shun sports that are aggressive, competitive, nationalistic, or violent?” So now we can’t even play or waych our favorite sports sich as football or basketball amd I love football and soccer. This is getting really ridiculous it really is. These stupid, extravagant, absurd rules are ruining lives. First we myst disown people who defy “Jehovah”, even family, then we have to dress according to the GB’s liking, now we can’t support any sports because of the competitiveness and aggressiveness. I bet if they catch us we’ll be disfellowshipped right? So God hated people who play a sport and they deserve to be punished? How can any JW after reading that lesson believe that these are “Jehovah’s” standards? I read the whole bible and it says in proverbs there are 7 things God hates. Pride, gluttony, envious individuals, laziness, greed, wrathful individuals, and lustful individuals. How can he hate a sport but love the fat slobs that come and give those talks and demonstrations on stage. This is going too far and needs to be stopped. My friend just got Disfellowshipped and my sister has before. I speak for us who have the experience even though I’m 18 and I pray for all of you. The GB have to be stopoed. I’ll be actively posting I enjoy talking to others with the same views.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 10, 2015 at 2:27 pm
 
I have yet (being a member of numerous Spanish speaking congregations) to meet an elder that is not an absolute Futbol fanatic. Meeting at homes wearing jerseys, stickers on cars, knowing season long stats. I also know for a fact that they consider themselves an exception to any of these rules meant for the lowly rank and file only. Real Madrid!
Reply
 
 
 
 John Walsh says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:25 am
 
Well written John, and shows your depth of experience.
 The modern day equivalent of Abrahams sacrificing his son is of course Jdub parents withholding the good chance of saving their child’s life with a blood transfusion.
 The main difference if you believe in the bible and it’s stories, is that Abraham actually knew he was sacrificing to his God, and had the confidence that interacting personally with his God would provide.
 By contrast Jdubs are just ‘Flying By The Arse Of Their Pants’ with sheer faith in 7 men and their writings.
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:18 am
 
I thought I would add to the pervious comments about the relief work in connection to hurricane Katernia.
 There were 5000+ witnesses that came from all over, some spending more then a year helping out. It was truly a beautiful thing.
 But, on the other side….Little known, the Society made a boat load of money off this…Congregations all over sent in 1000’s in immediate money’s, companies both jw/nonjw Contributed goods and services, when a home was repaired the publisher on completion got a breakdown of “costs” ie..bill..of course they didn’t have to pay it, but it was known who did and didn’t, furthermore if the homeowner recived a insurance payout, they were visited by a couple of local brothers connected to the relief committee to remind them of what was done, of course all that money flowed directly to headquarters. ..
 I don’t want to piss on the sacrifices that individuals made, because they really did give it all they had. I just feel the organization “took advantage of the situation” and has been less then honest about what it really “cost” them.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:44 pm
 
Thank you for mentioning this. I was involved in many relief efforts and one thing that is clear is that it cost the branch nothing. They made a killing because the labor was/is all free. I would also like to add that they made liberal use of materials that were provided by the government and other relief agencies so its not like the disaster victims were reimbursing for materials either.
 It’s presented one way in their videos and magazines. The reality is much different. Especially when you talk to those that were actually there.
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:36 am
 
Here are my thoughts about this article, Doctrine and Loyalty Whatever the Cost. I love it. You see this article is an expression of Thought of people in the process of waking up. That is why it is so good. All of us will need emotional support and will deal with negative feelings. I compare all of this to when my Leg was amputated when I was ten years old. I felt negative about my leg and I had a chip on my shoulder for several years. But something positive came from it. I received help from the state to get vocational skills. At the time I had to go to vocational school to keep disability. I wanted to pioneer. Thank goodness my parents didn’t want me to lose disability. The reaction to Waking up reminds me of when I lost my leg. It becomes a positive experience because reality is so much better than living the lie.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:59 am
 
@Alexandria R
I like your positive energy/ your positive perspective and that good does indeed come from adversity as the saying goes.
Regards.
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 10, 2015 at 9:59 am
 
My family Being so dedicated to a religion impacts my life as much as my leg. Each individual deals with waking up at their own speed. And nobody is wrong when it comes to their own speed as they personally deal with being awake.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 3:33 am
 
So sorry to hear about what happened to your leg but you just made such a profound statement about comparing it to waking up from the Watchtower. Good on you. Waking up is probably one of the hardest things we have to face.
Reply
 
 
 
 RC says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:44 am
 
Hi dee,
 no i am no ex-JW. My cousin has been in this cult for more than 7 Years . I knew vaguely that he was involved with some Christian Missionaries that was the sum of my knowledge till last year. When his father told me about JW then i decided to see what this was all about. I walked into KH with my cousin and frankly came back impressed. However after interacting with my cousin i found some abnormalities in his behaviour. Decided to read about JW and to my horror found the truth about it. Karen Morgan , barbara anderson, raymund franz,paul grundy and cedars himself along with taze.co. Finally the child abuse trials. Decided no matter what i am getting my cousin out. Have been trying to do that for the last few months.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 11:28 am
 
@RC
I gather that you are not an atheist but you are a non-Christian who was never a JW. Thanks for your non-atheist, non-Christian comments regarding the way in which Abraham’s sacrifing his son was used by the WT to make their point.
I personally welcome all perspectives and all viewpoints be they from atheists, non-atheists, Christians, non-Christians as it is my personal belief that if one is to find his/her own truth, then one must consider all angles, all viewpoints, all perspectives, all sides of the story in order to find their own truth.
It is my personal belief that it is up to each individual to do their own research of all the viewpoints, all the perspectives, all the angles and all sides of the story, come to their own conclusions and find their own truth. It is for refusing to do this why I ended up in the JW religion only to discover that it nothing but crap.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:17 am
 
Hi dee,
 Well you are out now. Hope my cousin does too. I have no problems to what my cousin decides is the truth as long it is not JW.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 3:39 am
 
Well said, Dee. And you are right. We should appreciate John Cedars for allowing us to use his website and for doing something positive. He’s been thrown lemons and he’s made lemonade as they say.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:47 am
 
@Anthony,
You are correct, we that were indoctrinated for so long do need to move on and possibly forgive to some degree. However, due the damage and harm that this destructive cult has inflicted on so many for over a century now, it’s hard to not harbor ill feelings toward it and its deluded, greedy, power hungry leaders.
Part of the healing is to deal with the anger, sadness, family neglect, shunning, ect. that comes from waking up from the cult’s indoctrinations, then breaking away from its clutches on our minds and lives. Cedars has done a great service to us all to give a place to ‘vent’ some of this anger and then share wisdom from one another to move on. I call myself ‘Searcher’ because I continue to search for the right place to call ‘my own’, not the ‘truth’s own’. I have had so much encouragement and insight over the past two years that I have posted here. I continuously get encouragement from Cedars and the other authors here on the JWSurvey site. All the people posting here have helped regardless if they are atheist or spiritual. I don’t really care what they believe, I just want to be there for them as they have listened to me. Yes, some can be juvenile or bat-sh## crazy, but that is to be expected in an open blogging forum. I tend to ignore that and other petty squabbles. Sometimes, I get a good laugh at them too. I just hope that all who have broken free get the mental and emotional freedom they are entitled to have.
You want to move on quickly, and I respect that. You are a strong one to get over the hump of anger and resentment so soon. I hope that continues for you, but others have a long process, and that’s because we are all different. That just makes the world go ’round, blah blah blah. I could go on.
Basically, forgiveness and moving on is hard for all of us. Forgiveness is not just for the person you forgive, but more so for the forgiving person to free his/her self from the burden of anguish and hate they harbor. It may take a while for some people, but I’m glad that they have a place to vent it in a healthy way (I’m stressing ‘healthy’ here).
To John Redwood, thanks for the thought provoking article. To Cedars (Lloyd) thanks for the service and place that you have provided for so many here.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 4:14 pm
 
@Anthony
‘Searcher’ gave a very good response below, to your comments here. I will not rehash those comments except to just mention that some of the persons who comment on this site are still JWs in the organization. They find it necessary to hide behind anonymous names as otherwise, if their true identities are known they risk being disfellowshipped and being shunned/cut-off from family and friends who remain in the org.
Thanks for having taken the time to share. You gave a very important and valuable reminder in the previous post:
“Be more in control of who you let into your life”.
Do take care. All the best.
 Regards.
Reply
 
 
 Ace says:

 November 10, 2015 at 5:57 pm
 
Hi guys I’m 18 and a JW. After reviewing all this info im convinced that this cult is not “the true religion.” I wish I never got baptized but you can’t change the past. The elders in my hall want me to become a ministerial servant and I don’t know what to do. My plan is to transfer halls and just stop going because I can’t get disfellowshipped. I also found an interesting piece of info about where Jehovah came from. His name was a catholic invention. How can they claim to be a true religion when they shun family and close friends, they lie and say that they are mediators of Jesus, and they steal from other religions in order to persuade others? Cedar in the article it’s true and I see how my family has lost there freedom to think for themselves. It’s also very sad how my “worldy” friends treat me so much better than my own family. How is it even possible to manipulate 8 million people and take away someones free mind?
Reply
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:40 am
 
Ace, you’re not alone. Me to Ace, for me Getting df’d isn’t an option. I’m not willing to go out of my comfort zone and it’s important to me to happily live with myself. Ace, be happy all the time. The secret to happiness is keeping bitterness out of your life. It’s all in the mind. Wow, you’re not a kid any more. Don’t allow others stress to stress you. JWs are stressed. It took time for me to learn to stay away from them. I completely have now stopped going to meetings. I love my new found freedom. I’m trying to warn you. Don’t be bitter. That’s a waste of energy and time. Be happy.
Reply
 
 
 
 Kat says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:06 pm
 
Takes awhile after waking up to move on, I think many need help from those that are going through the same thing, its called encouragement, understanding and non judgemental feed back.
Some become activists these ones usually have a huge sense of justice, not so much bitterness and hate, but hate rather what the GB has done to the many mislead and deceived JW, for most of us it includes our families, we are torn.
Its sites like these and others that really do help those feeling lost and alone to have communication with others that understand, and the information helps rid many of the cob webs of indoctrination over time.
Everyone is not on the same time span, some have left for years, others are just starting to wake up, some are fading, others been DF and so forth, so not everyone is at the same stage, so we need to respect that and be kind to one another.
Keep up this life saving work all those that contribute articles, videos and sites, and all the comments that help also.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 11, 2015 at 9:42 am
 
Spot on Kat…exactly how I feel…Im waking up over the last few years and its been a shocker in more ways than one!…. 55 years of mind control gone…it can have a very strange effect on a person…and a shock to fin the real authentic you…and I like her! Lets not judge one another…we have had enough of that already.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:57 pm
 
Idontknowhatodo
 55 years of mind control – wow, you have done so well to finally wake up! I had 30 years of it and as you say it’s a shocker when you discover the truth.
 When people in the world sometimes commented on how we were “a nice family”, I used to say it was “because we are Jehovah’s witnesses”. Now we can still be a nice family because of who we are, the real authentic us! Yes, it’s good to find our real selves again.
 Oh, and I agree, we’ve all had enough of the criticism and judgemental attitude.
 Let’s get back to ‘Desiderata’.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 10, 2015 at 7:43 pm
 
I also like: “Life is not a rehearsal”.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:13 am
 
Hi Anthony,
 First that teaching of “paradise earth” is not as harmless as you think. It is the hook which is used to entice many people into JW. Any person who fears death to an unnatural degree and if he comes into contact with JW, imagine the consequences . First of all , the fear is exacerbated by showing the person about the threat of so-called coming Armageddon and then offer him the carrot of paradise earth. It is enough to shatter any man’s identity by then.There are 3 steps (in a broader sense) mentioned in Steve Hassan’s book to gain control of a person’s mind :- unfreezing,changing and refreezing. This teaching is used by the JW in the first step.
As for the pain i caused my cousin, do you think anybody who has left this cult has not paid their price in pain? One of the major characteristics of a cult is there is no graceful way out. Raymund Franz paid his price.So did Carl Olof Jonsonn. So did Karen Morgan. So did Barbara Anderson. So did Cedars . So did Paul Grundy. And these people are recognizable. What about the unnamed , unknown persons who have left or trying to leave?
Also after seeing the child abuse trials in Australia , which sane person would not try and get his family member out of this cult ? The magnitude of this problem even Raymund Franz and Carl Olof Jonsonn were unable to accept, that the truth was much worse than even they imagined.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:24 am
 
I agree with you. There is an old saying, “You attract a whole lot more bees with honey than with vinegar.” When dealing with people that I disagree with, I found out that out the hard way too many times, ruining an opportunity to converse with the person. Now, when dealing with an insulting person, I usually ignore them when I can. That’s more poisonous to them because they can’t get a rise out of you.
Reply
 
 
 RC says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:50 am
 
Thank you Anthony.
Reply
 
 
 david says:

 November 12, 2015 at 11:42 am
 
To searcher and Dee
Thanks for that bit of advice of yours about ( attracting a lot more bees with honey )
I almost forgot about them kind of sayings and philosophies on life by allowing myself to be drawn in by certain types of people like rc.
it don’t say a lot for the people up in that office supporting them types of people.
its a bit like that verse in the bible, mix with the wise and you become wise, the rest you know.
a lot of people on the site are people followers, following people like excelosior and others.
They don’t really have anything deep down, you talk to them and theres nothing there, empty shells.
Thanks 4 that bit of advice.
All the best to you both. x
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 10, 2015 at 10:54 pm
 
Whenever their is a secret problem in the congo, they sat that the holy spirit will eventually expose it, well i read many coments for people here who are still in the org but also like me look & comment on the so called apostate site, why arent we caught.
Reply
 
 
 Mona Millet says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:00 am
 
Whoa! The first 25 years of my life in a nutshell!! I, too, have family on my father’s side whom I’ve never met. I have a few vague memories of the ones I DID meet, but not much after early childhood. He never came into “the truth” but my mother did and so everything the joint families had done before like holidays, birthdays and such was consequently branded “evil”. Once that happened, I’m assuming they just didn’t want to hang out with us anymore. Who could blame them?
 My mother was a wonderful woman – probably the best person I’ll know my whole life – but she was completed blinded and brainwashed by an organization that promised all the answers. Even when 1975 came and went, she stayed strong and was proud of that fact. In the last years of her life, she’d gotten much more relaxed about the rules. I’d left the org by then, but she continued to associate with me anyway. She was well loved in the congregation and in our town, I’m sure it’s why she didn’t end up in a judicial meeting!! Only one brother of mine remains a JW, out of 3. I’m not even sure about him as, obviously, we haven’t spoken for years.
 People who’ve heard a little about JWs or who may even think they know a lot have no idea of the damage they’ve done, and continue to do to families and people’s lives in general. It’s amazing how a group who claim to be so full of love can have such a foundation of hate, deceit and mistrust.
 Thank you for your article!!
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 11, 2015 at 3:34 am
 
To the dear Christians on this site,
Our dear friend Robert67 has raised an interesting theological point in his reply to me.
His argument is that non believers cannot apply the bible be use they don’t believe in God.
Obviously, dear Robert67 is not implying that I cannot read, so it must be that I am incapable of discerning the correct meaning of the bible, due to my non belief in God.
What do you think?
All you dear Christians have read my scriptural arguments. So, I would ask you to pray and consider whether I was wrong to urge dear Robert67 to show love and politeness in his comments.
Another tired argument is that I am a hypocrite for not applying the councel to myself. I’m sorry, but I am under no obligation to follow the bible’s morality in my life, whereas anyone professing to follow Christ is under obligation to follow all of it!
I have just been awarded a huge new contract, and so I shall not be able to devote as much time to this site as I have done before.
I must admit that I am relieved. It has not been much fun having to step up and hold to account individuals like PB and our dear friend Robert67 with no assistance save for some remarkable exceptions.
I will continue to read the articles and, if I have time, I shall comment as before.
I used to enjoy commenting on this site. It used to be a positive experience and I thought that I was achieving some good.
Now I find myself abused, accused of things I have not done and I am not getting any benefit out of it at all.
I leave you in the capable hands of many posters who are here to help, not divide.
So long, folks!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 11, 2015 at 4:53 am
 
Dear Excelsior, I am glad for you with your big contract, but please come back soon! I am not a “Christian” but I will miss your comments!! Thanks for sticking up for us non Christians too. Take care. Caroline.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
You have a long history of insightful comments on many subjects, Excelsior. It’s a shame that your time recently had to be diverted to unpleasant but necessary tasks. Congratulations on your success outside of the JW cult.
Of course, as you know, Hairy Fairy is Pickled Brain, who–believe it or not–wants to add something negative to this occasion.
Come back as often as you can, Excelsior. And sincerely, peace be with you, my friend.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:13 am
 
Moderator, thank you very much for your quick response.
Please disregard my reference to a comment that no longer exists, folks.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 3:47 am
 
Excelsior, you are highly prized. Please don’t go for good. Always enjoy your comments as they are balanced and well thought out. Your comments are highly respected.
Reply
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:44 am
 
@Excelsior!
 I for one, enjoy your posts and always use them to question my own faith in God at least and why I believe in him. There are plenty of lovely individuals who don’t believe in God as well you know. Please don’t be offended by Robert67. He means well I would like to believe, and he seems to have a genuine love for God and is very zealous about it.
 Huge congrats on your new contract. I wish you every success as I’m sure you will have with your excellent reasoning and community contribution skills.
 In the immortal words of Spock: “Live Long & Prosper”!
Reply
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 11, 2015 at 9:34 am
 
Dont go for long Excelsior….I have always benefited from your advice and feel like us atheists are getting persecuted off the site if you leave!
 I dont think our friend meant you to leave for good but I do believe you have the right to use his chosen moral compass to question his attitude to yourself and others who dont believe in a God anymore….
I just think we are all victims and including a bit of debate…should stick together…
I will miss you…
Wrll done with your new contract
 Peace be with YOU!
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:29 am
 
Hi Excelsior,
I hate to hear that you are leaving. You had some very salient points and responses. I think that your input far outweighs any insult or challenge that is leveled at you. I wish you would stay and not give an insulting person any gratitude, but you have to make that choice.
Best of luck to you and I wish you well.
Reply
 
 
 Cedars says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:21 am
 
Excelsior, PB was dealt with and continues to be dealt with (Hairy Fairy is the latest incarnation, apparently the penny hasn’t yet dropped that we can spot this person’s comments a mile off and will delete any we suspect him/her to have authored, regardless of rotating IP addresses).
As to your interactions with other users – we have very clear posting guidelines and we appreciate the cooperation of our visitors in enforcing them (since we cannot patrol the comments sections 24/7). If someone posts a comment that violates our posting guidelines we appreciate a quick “heads up” email, whereupon we will generally – but not always – give the violator the opportunity to correct their behavior before blocking.
Either the other individual has said something genuinely offensive and outrageous, or we are talking about a heated difference of opinion.
Either way, you are a valued visitor to this website, and aside from your personal commitments I hope you will continue to share your voice on our pages.
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:35 am
 
In response to comment, that you can’t think of one group of people who lived at time of Moses, who were not barbarians, …who was Job, Elihu, and for that matter the 3 friends. They did seem to have some respectably values.
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 11:41 am
 
Wow, my last comment was meant for a reply to a much earlier post, and pretty much is way you out of order..lol.
 But, I for one appreciated Excelsior comments too..
Reply
 
 
 
 Don't Want To Say My Name says:

 November 11, 2015 at 12:26 pm
 
To Excelsior et al
Excelsior your input to this site will be greatly missed, but I am happy to hear the good news about your new contract.
I too have found the recent insults very off-putting and they made me reluctant to comment again, especially when relating personal experiences.
I have commented previously under another name, but due to the afore-mentioned reason, coupled with the fact that I have family waking up I have chosen to post without saying my name.
My comment in support of RC on another article that drew another posters wrath, was made because I found his remark to RC offensive and un-called for. I am not an argumentative or confrontational person, so have no desire to get drawn into an argument.
I have not been associated with the JWs for many years and I am very busy leading a non-JW life, so do not spend my time obsessing about the JW Org. However due to the cult I have been deprived of my family for many years, a fact that I am very angry about.
Like many others here who have commented, any time that I did have contact with JW family then I could not discuss religion with them as it only shut off the limited communication that I had with them.
I long for the day to come when JW Org is exposed for the fraud that it is and my family and others are finally freed from the destructive brain washing control that the Cult has over them. Sadly though it could never bring back the decades of lost family relationships.
Reply
 
 Don't Want To Say My Name says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
Anthony I presume
I was moved to make the comment to RC after I read your first post to Alanv to which Tiger responded and then saw your next comment to RC.
Whilst everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, I do not think it is helpful to be insensitive to others, or to condemn them for their actions.
There had been a lot of insults being traded here recently and having read in a previous comment what RCs motive was for following this site, I felt he/she should be offered encouragement, not singled out for criticism.
I am glad you apologised to RC and if I classed you in the same category as others who have been insulting when this was not your intention, then I too apologise and hope you will feel that you can continue commenting and sharing any experiences that may help others reading this site.
Cedars site is invaluable for helping anyone with issues relating to the JWs and unfortunately some recent comments have been very off-putting and probably play into the stereo-type that the GB like to portray that apostates are bitter and mentally diseased.
As I said before, I do not wish to get embroiled in confrontation – I had enough of that with the JWs; so in the words of another commentator
Peace be with you.
Reply
 
 RC says:

 November 12, 2015 at 1:04 am
 
Hi I dont want to say my name,
 Thanks for your support. Will make my points in a better way from now.
Reply
 
 
 RC says:

 November 12, 2015 at 1:09 am
 
Anthony,
 I think i understand what you are trying to say. Yes could be that i have worsened the situation but well nobody is perfect. Perhaps God in His Infinite Grace will show me a better way to get my point across and help my cousin.
 Also , if i have a personal vendetta against my cousin, i need not do anything . The JW will harm him more than any way i can think of.
 To use your own words “Let it go”. We all have our own demons to deal with.
Reply
 
 SIRIUS says:

 November 12, 2015 at 7:57 am
 
>>>Even God with all his infinite wisdom cannot change the heart of man. ( Jeremiah 17:9 )
Interesting passage(without getting into further context such as in Jeremiah 16:19 – 17:18), makes one wonder if a masterfully designed chess game with winners & losers is at play. Then again, wasn’t there a similar chess play at Genesis 6:6?
IMHO
dogstar

 
 
 Tom Dart says:

 November 12, 2015 at 4:00 pm
 
Any screenwriters here? Who would you cast as the seven wizards of Brooklyn? Who would play the different members of the royal committee?
http://youtu.be/Zg5zSVxx9JM

 
 
 Free Thinker says:

 November 13, 2015 at 8:17 am
 
Hello Lloyd. Why do I get the impression that Charles Darwin has morphed (or in his case evolved) from previous incarnations!

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:28 am
 
Another reincarnation of an abusive commenter, upset they cannot mold this site to their vision.

 
 
 Charles Darwin says:

 November 13, 2015 at 11:07 am
 
@Robert67. Personally I think that is a slur on my good character just because I don’t believe in a god & I draw attention to the rules of this site I am attacked .

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:14 pm
 
Good character? You turn into a keyboard warrior, calling people insulting names as soon as they disagree with you.
I don’t mind the disagreeing part, its the insulting names, meant with insult that constitute a breach of the -(no abusive comments)(language)- posting guidelines.
I know its still the same few individuals that want me gone, and cannot stand the fact that some of us are “ignorant” enough to hold on to faith in scripture after leaving the Watchtower Cult and Tract Society (c)
The Cult didnt wash it out of us and nothing you do will either.

 
 
 Charles Darwin says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:55 pm
 
@ Robert67 . Please explain where I have called you an insulting name by just drawing attention that you are violating the rules of this website where it specifically says no comments of an evangelical nature?

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:37 pm
 
“I know its still the same few individuals that want me gone, and cannot stand the fact that some of us are “ignorant” enough to hold on to faith…”
You’re doing it again, Robert.
Don’t cast aspersions so freely onto respectful and respectable people who have nothing to do with this.
Some of your comments are very good. Seriously. But when the slightest thought of us non-believers crosses your mind, you make some comment that makes it sound like you’re completely unraveling.
Unless there’s a conspiracy theory you’d rather believe in, then trust me when I tell you that “Charles Darwin” is PB. Just study a few old comments of his and learn how to identify him. It would be unwise to say here in a comment what to look for.
I don’t know who the other trolls have been, but I think it’s VERY safe to say that they aren’t any of the people who have engaged in civil dialogue with you in the past over our differences of opinion.
We’ve been doing better, Robert. Let’s keep it up. Please.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:40 pm
 
“I know its still the same few individuals that want me gone, and cannot stand the fact that some of us are “ignorant” enough to hold on to faith …”
You’re doing it again, Robert.
Don’t cast aspersions so freely onto respectful and respectable people who have nothing to do with this.
Some of your comments are very good. Seriously. But when the slightest thought of us non-believers crosses your mind, you make some comment that makes it sound like you’re completely unraveling.
Unless there’s a conspiracy theory you’d rather believe in, then trust me when I tell you that “Charles Darwin” is PB. Just study a few old comments of his and learn how to identify him. It would be unwise to say here in a comment what to look for.
I don’t know who the other trolls have been, but I think it’s VERY safe to say that they aren’t any of the people who have engaged in civil dialogue with you in the past over our differences of opinion.
We’ve been doing better, Robert. Let’s keep it up. Please.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:52 pm
 
Well, two for emphasis I guess. Moderator, if it’s easy to do, and you feel inclined to delete this 2nd one, please do so. Thanks.

 
 
 
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:24 pm
 
Excelsior –
I said goodbye a little while ago too. Some posts just got under my skin and I was getting annoyed. A few months later I have decided to post again.
 You are one of the long standing members on this site – although we don’t always agree, you will be missed. Hope you get lots of money from your huge new contract. We could do with a party!!
 Peace and love.
Reply
 
 
 jake says:

 November 11, 2015 at 5:32 pm
 
Excelsior, I really hope you don’t leave. we all say stupid things (genius accreditation accepted) hope you’ll stay around.
Reply
 
 
 jake says:

 November 11, 2015 at 6:20 pm
 
Excelsior.
 I appreciate your logic when discussing application, I like that clarity. How many hot collars are there when it comes to belief? You are an asset.
 The weakness of us all is the belief we are right, try a discussion with that sort of person. . . . often their mouths are big and their ears are small.
 As a general comment. . . Before belief in the external belief in the internal.
 God. . .John Lennon.
 Hope you don’t leave Excelsior X
Reply
 
 
 RC says:

 November 12, 2015 at 1:00 am
 
Hi Excelsior,
 Come back soon. Your comments were amazing to say the least. Thanks for sticking up for us. I think you are a better Christian than even you dare to admit.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 12, 2015 at 7:53 am
 
@Ano, explain yourself, please. Who are you calling a creep and why are you calling Ex. a creep?
Reply
 
 
 
 A Patient Man says:

 November 11, 2015 at 7:23 am
 
Here is another story for you, My wife’s aunt was a very faithful person along with her husband who was a presiding overseer, (when there was such a thing), for many years. The hall the two of them attended was very cold in the main seating area, so the aunt would sit in the back room. Her husband who finally removed himself from his position as overseer and elder, would sit with her in the back room. This did not set too well with the “powers that be”. So they began mandating that everyone needs to sit in the main auditorium. The aunt could not, and her husband supported her decision. It all finally came to a head and a very misguided elder said to her, “if you are not going to follow our instructions, leave and don’t come back”. So they left and never went back. I have had a number of nice conversations with the two of them, and during one of our talks she said to me, “if you put your faith in men, you will always be disappointed”. That rings so true! The misguided elder should have been the one to commend them for attending, even though they chose to sit in the back room. This elder did not ever take into consideration what this faithful couple contributed over the years. He wanted them to fall in line with something very petty. So from the very small things to the big ones, there is to be no deviation, it is no wonder faithful ones like these family members are leaving.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 3:58 am
 
Just like the attitude of the Pharisees to separate a tenth of the mint and the dill herbs while they gulped down the camel and loaded heavy loads upon men while they would not budge the loads even with their fingers.
Reply
 
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:10 am
 
John, that was a very moving article and affects many of us who still have family in the organisation. I feel a longing to help Witnesses when I see them out and about with their trolleys or knocking on doors. I think it is important to share with them a better way. Not easy but at least it’s positive.
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 11, 2015 at 8:27 am
 
I rarely talk to my family who are still witnesses about the witness religion because even though they may know that things are not right, they use the standard line “wait on Jehovah”. That right there is a conversation stopper. And wait they do……
Funny, when a person leaves the religion, the witnesses all believe (propaganda from headquarters) that that person will become an immoral, drug and alcohol abuser and will never be happy again.
That person is then generally written off by most witnesses because he or she will die at armaghedon anyway.
Leaving the witnesses was the only way that I could be happy again, because for me, going into the Kingdom Hall was not any fun, as it always felt like I was walking into a prison. There were some very nice people there but the atmosphere was always guarded and noone could ever ever really say what they were actually thinking.
So many times I wanted to put up my hand and say I disagree with this point and perhaps we can discuss it or reason on it, but that would have taken much more courage than I had at the time.
Reply
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 11, 2015 at 10:22 am
 
Just a note of thanks. I appreciate the added information coming out about disaster relief. I’ve helped at disasters but I have to admit I’m naive. I was aware of different things but didn’t always make connections to the bigger picture. And in my limited capacity of helping I just wasn’t in the know about some of these things. My eyes are a little more opened. Regards
Reply
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 11, 2015 at 1:37 pm
 
Just a comment on the wide variety of post/watchtower ideologies, I think it has to be expected that the journey out of the years of absolute thought control is going to be messy and chaotic. Remember the old illustration from youthbook.about the spring that’s held tight then released suddenly. .same thing…we cannot expect uniformity, in fact that was what we came from, the Truth whatever that is will be manifested no matter what we think or feel, our belief or disbelief will not change reality. We need to respect people and viewpoints that do not always agree with our own…
That being said , I also realize that Lloyd has an obligation to monitor the comments on this site, just like cnn, Guardian, bbc…do theirs, and establish parameters to how far commentators can go..
Reply
 
 
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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
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The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
Posted on November 6, 2015

The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control
The Governing Body continues to stifle individuality and exert total control

When I was a very young boy, my grandfather died. I don’t know much about his life, aside from the fact that he was a carpenter, a policeman, and a Catholic. He was, in fact, Irish Catholic, and I suspect my father’s family took great pride in their heritage and their faith. It was a disappointment for them that during the pre-1975 years, my father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The invasive control that the Jehovah’s Witness organization had over my parents divided our family. At my grandfather’s funeral, all hope of normality was smashed when my father refused to sit with his brothers, instead electing to place himself at the back of the church, with easy access to the nearest exit.
Why would he do this? His decision was decidedly influenced by the March 15 1970 Questions From Readers, which posed the question

“May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?”
The phrasing of that question in itself diminishes the thinking ability of the reader and transfers control of one’s life to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The article casts aside the faith of the individual, suggesting that attending a church service places a Jehovah’s Witness in serious danger of violating his Christian conscience.

“Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided.”
Only recently did I come to understand the permanent damage that this caused. For the balance of my childhood and to this day, I never got to know my uncles, my aunt, my cousins, or anyone else in the family. In a sad twist on the words attributed to Jesus below, my extended family became strangers who purportedly worshiped God incorrectly, or so I was led to believe.

“Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” – Luke 12:51
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes no apology for splitting apart families; in fact they summon Jesus’ words to reinforce their divisive policies. Luke chapter 12 continues:

“For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”
Undoubtedly, self-imposed estrangement is not the intended meaning behind these expressions, but for the Jehovah’s Witness religion, they mean just one thing:
Blood is not thicker than Watchtower
It has been nearly 40 years since my family was fractured by the policies of this organization. Instead of a softening of rules and regulations, the Governing Body has elected to double down their doctrinal directives, expanding their influence using the power of suggestion and crowd manipulation to achieve control of their flock.
An example of this control is found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study edition. The article “Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah” drives readers to the conclusion that loyalty to the suggestions of the Governing Body is equal to loyalty to God.
We encounter Olga, a Jehovah’s Witness wife and mother who has suffered at the hands of her non-JW husband, a man who “abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.” The Watchtower paints a picture of the stereotypical “worldly” man, a person without redeeming qualities and without Jehovah.
Sadly, his father dies, and Olga agrees to travel with him to another city for the funeral, showing respect for him despite his non-affiliation with Watchtower. But did she truly show this man respect? The article says:

“She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony
 ended.”
Without even addressing the subject of attending a church funeral, the Watchtower suggests that a truly faithful Witness of Jehovah would never step foot inside a church. While this statement is not the subject of the article, the powerful suggestion is nonetheless implanted into the reader’s mind, setting a precedent that must be followed.
Just a few paragraphs later, we are reminded of some of the simple pleasures in life that must be abandoned if a person is to be loyal to Jehovah.

“Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good
 things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them”
The result?

 “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
This heartbreaking story touches me personally. The endless years of alienation from my family and any sense of celebration and happiness were replaced with piles of Watchtower magazines and books that filled my shelves, but left me empty and depleted.
It is difficult for Jehovah’s Witness children to really understand what is happening to them during the formative years of their life. One by one, normal relationships and activities are eliminated, and Witness children are advised that they must be “no part of the world.”
Another way this happens is by abstaining from school activities, including healthy and stimulating sports and clubs. The Watchtower hammers down this point by stating:

“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the
 championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
 out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
For most of us who have lived the life of a Witness child, we understand what this means: no extra-curricular activities, no after school sports, nothing that might steer us away from field service and regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
 Snitching and shunning
Along with behavior modification, Jehovah’s Witnesses engage in one of the most cruel practices in modern society: shunning. The February 2016 Watchtower advances from suggestive behavior control and graduates to full-fledged punishment of anyone who violates the social customs of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members are encouraged to spy on one another, and if the guilty party refuses to confess, the elders must be notified.

“Kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties. For example, you may have definite knowledge that a certain fellow believer is guilty of serious misconduct. You may feel loyal to him,
 especially if he is a close friend or a relative. But if you were to cover up the wrongdoing, you would be disloyal to God. Of course, your loyalty to Jehovah should come first. So like Nathan, be kind yet firm. Urge your friend or relative to seek the help of the elders. If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, loyalty to God should move you to report the matter to the elders.”
In a series of 5 photographs, the Watchtower study article visually demonstrates the process:
1.Observe the social media photo of your friend committing an infraction, such as drinking alcohol at a party where non-Witnesses are present
2.Confront your friend with the photograph
3.Take your tablet to the Kingdom Hall and show the photo to an elder
4.Two elders take your friend into a private room and chastise and counsel her
5.Your friend regains her senses and is soon participating in meetings once again
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower
The five-step snitching process, as shown on pages 28 and 29 of the February 2016 Watchtower (click to enlarge)
 
The reality is that seldom does the process occur in this manner, with step number 2 usually bypassed. But the encouragement to police each other within the congregation is very real.
Another disturbing practice is shunning, which is not limited to those who have been disfellowshipped from the JW faith. Simply leaving the organization for personal reasons results in the immediate loss of your complete network of friends. And for those who have been formally disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a total and devastating loss.
A woman might decide that this religion she was baptized into at a very young age was not the correct decision for her. But it is too little, too late to change this decision. The Governing Body has decided that her own daughter is barred from fellowship with her. The bond is severed indefinitely, the punishment is very real.

“A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5: 11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote”
There is no greater bond than that between a mother and daughter, yet the Watchtower has managed to produce a doctrinal solvent capable of dissolving the closest relationship known to humans.
I know many Jehovah’s Witness mothers who have been reinstated to the organization, superficially believing they have “returned to Jehovah,” when in fact they just wanted their family back. They walk among the congregation with the permanent stigma of judicial discipline, but take comfort that they have traded public humiliation for the ability to speak and associate with their family.
 The Abraham Principle

“Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to kill his son” – Genesis 22:10
Inflicting harm on a son or daughter is a completely foreign concept to any human with a measure of good mental health. Yet according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the biblical character of Abraham showed the ultimate faith in God when the Almighty required him to stab his son to death on a mountaintop.
Is this really a lesson in faith in God, or could it perhaps be a convenient method of demanding blind obedience?  The Watchtower study article titled “Jehovah Called Him My Friend” suggests that anyone who doubts Abraham’s decision to knife his son is void of faith. The blame is shifted from the perpetrator (God) to the critic:

“There are those who say that God was cruel for asking such a thing of Abraham, and some imply that Abraham’s obedience was blind and unfeeling. They take that position because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.”
I never could grasp the sense of this bible tale. Apparently my faith and understanding are just too weak. We are told that Jehovah called out to Abraham and halted the murder just in time. Why didn’t he apply this same life-saving power moments before the planes crashed, or the tsunami hit shore, or the crazed gunman slaughtered those schoolchildren? These are questions we must all ponder for ourselves.
Separation of church and sanity
Looking back on more than 40 years of loyal association with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I truly understand how damaged my family was by this destructive organization. I can finally validate my own feelings, my internal conscience which always told me that these things are insane:
◾Associate only with Jehovah’s Witnesses
◾Stay away from non-JW church services
◾Avoid playing team sports or joining school clubs
◾Spy on your friends and turn them in to the elders
◾Avoid higher education
◾Shun anyone who leaves the organization
◾Never accept a life saving blood transfusion
◾Do not celebrate anyone’s birthday (or any holidays)
◾Believe that God will kill everyone but Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is increasing its doctrinal control over its members, further blurring the line between religion and personal identity. They have systematically removed individual freedom of mind and conscience and replaced it with a long list of directives, leaving many Witnesses depressed, feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.
This is a prison from which you must escape.
If you share the same feelings, please reach out to someone for help. You can do it anonymously and without judgment. Read, watch and learn as much as you can, and separate verifiable truth from the insanity of indoctrination.
Make this the first day of the rest of your life.
You are now free.
 
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← My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism? →
 
340 Responses to The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost

← Older Comments
 
 Wild Olive says:

 November 11, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
The example of Abraham has as explained been exploited for an agenda.
 One of the major differences between Abraham and most of JWs is that Abraham had been put in a covenant with Jehovah,and sure Jehovah tested him, all of this made the covenant promise more sure for Abraham, Jehovah didn’t derive any benefit from Abrahams faith, but Abraham got everything,just as any father who is concerned with his children’s welfare will tell them what’s right, and sometimes enforce it, the parent gets no benefit from children’s obedience, the children are the ones that benefit, even when children don’t always accept parental advice, parents don’t go around thinking ” that child doesn’t have my approval” . No we try again hoping they will see our love is what is behind it all,Ime sure this was the same with Jehovah and Abraham
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 13, 2015 at 4:02 am
 
Thank you Wild Olive. That makes sense.
Reply
 
 
 
 sandra says:

 November 12, 2015 at 12:16 am
 
I really feel great knowing I did the right thing leaving the organization reading your comments all the thoughts I had that.my mind was controlled has been reinforced thankyou so much
Reply
 
 
 alan says:

 November 12, 2015 at 4:04 am
 
The WT says that:
“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
 out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
Notice that the William girls [tennis players] are not bound by these “rules”. Maybe it’s because they are not baptised yet one of them publicly thanked Jehovah when she won. Of course any non famous person would not be recognised by the “brothers” as a Witness but these are. Hank Marvin [of the Shadows] is another one. He played “rock music” with Cliff Richard years after being baptised. Again no one criticises him for doing this as he is famous. Let an average JW try to make a career out of tennis or rock music and see what happens to them. Don’t even get me started about the shunning rule either. For years after Michael Jackson and his siblings left the Society, their mother associated with them even though she should not have done so but there again, imagine the bad press if people found out that they were being shunned?
Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 November 12, 2015 at 7:41 am
 
Governing Body. No financial records. No donation.
Reply
 
 
 Sister drifter UK says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:22 am
 
Lloyd – it’s such a shame that all your hard work with this site and all the very useful comments are being overshadowed by silly banter etc etc
 I am sure I am missing some really good points because of having to trawl through the rest.
 Not sure how you can filter it -but I for one am finding it more time consuming than I really have time for.
 I have faded but do not want to go down a route of bitterness and insults that so many seem to fall into. We can’t change the past and nearly 60 years in this for me means that I want to take the good from it. Like leaving a bad marriage- I want to leave with dignity.
 Please rescue this site before you lose genuine contributors .
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 November 13, 2015 at 1:18 am
 
I’m afraid there is only so much I can do. We are under persistent barrage by one, perhaps two trolls who use rotating IP addresses to get past our spam filter.
Hopefully eventually they will realize that anything they post will get taken down within a few hours, and find more productive uses for their time. Meanwhile, we appreciate the cooperation of our valued posters in notifying us if someone appears to be abusing the commenting feature, and we will act as quickly as possible to rectify the problem.
Reply
 
 Charles Darwin says:

 November 13, 2015 at 3:11 am
 
Cedars. There seem to be too many violating your guidelines on posting comments of an evangelical nature like @Robert67 & to a lesser extent &MeredithJ & Tara & others like @ Dee etc,etc
 Surely their comments should be removed ??
 Otherwise great site & I just ignore the drivel & imbecile nature of the others.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 13, 2015 at 8:14 am
 
Excuse me?
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:17 am
 
You do realize this is an ex-jw site? Visited by people who spent their entire lives immersed in a religion that claimed to be bible backed.
 No one is preaching here and you should expect some biblical dialogue. We get the no preaching our religion here due to the rules of this site and hope the No preaching “lack of faith” part of the rules is also respected. Would it be ok to bash on people of color, gay?
Why would it be ok to go off topic and bash the majority of visitors to this site. Are you mistaking the mission of this site to help free Jehovahs Witnesses of their cult indoctrination, with a free everyone of their faith in scripture site?
If so,have the administrator state that as the mission of this site and you have my word ill stay away.
Hope everything stays on topic in the future.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 13, 2015 at 5:45 pm
 
Thanks Robert. Darwins comment actual bothered me today. I have spent 20 years hardly being able to ask questions for fear of being reproved etc etc etc…. Lloyd has given me a site where I can, for once feel somewhat free to ask questions. I’m not confrontational unless really pushed. So please Darwin, consider that some of us have been gagged for years, have suddenly found courage to speak up albeit it incognito within an atmosphere of some security. The scriptures have been our life for many years, of course we want to use them and discuss them and debate them…. perhaps things get a little out of hand from time to time, that’s because we are all fighting at different levels to take back our own self worth and conscience.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 14, 2015 at 1:19 pm
 
Hi Robert. I don’t want to hurt your feelings but if I bring up scriptures that might cause a person to lose “faith” in the Bible, I can do that, without you getting all bent out of shape over it and leave comments to the effect that people should “ignore” our atheistic comments. Some of your comments were not nice at all and even sarcastic and so you took after Excelsior for pointing those comments.
If I bring out comments about the God of the Bible and somebody loses faith over it, it is not me that would make a person lose “faith”, but it would be their own Bible that would do that.
Just because a person doesn’t believe in the Bible as inspired of a perfect God, doesn’t necessarily make a person an atheist. Nobody could not “believe” if they had solid evidence of a God, so everybody is actually an agnostic in my opinion and even you are an agnostic because you only believe in the God of the Bible, so you are an agnostic when it comes to other religions and their Gods because you don’t believe in those other Gods of those different religions.
Lloyd seems to be up to date when it comes to taking down evangelical comments. We should be able to question the Scriptures since that is what the Society uses to entrap people, the same as all other religions. The Society, using the Bible even guilts people in to refusing blood and so losing their life over those scriptures. We should be able to question the Bible. That is not the same at all as to trying to be evangelical. If the Bible turns people off of God, it isn’t our fault.
I realize the Bible is comforting to people and nobody wants to take that away from those people, but just because you and others believe in God, doesn’t mean that we can’t post scriptures that paint God in a bad light as long as we don’t take the scriptures out of context.
We should be able to talk about subjects as evolution as well but I think by the way you think, you think that this site should be run only on an evangelical nature and no other comments allowed, like you should be the one to make all the decisions on what is allowed and what is not allowed?
Nobody got mad or made nasty comments when people make comments that show they believe in God but you label us “non believers” as trying to turn people atheistic when we quote Bible scriptures or bring up evolution.
An awful lot of people who leave the JW religion go apostate. That simply means they don’t believe in God. That’s it. They aren’t evil. They are the same person they were before they lost their faith in God. If they were a good person when they had faith, they will still be the same good person after they lose faith. Their personality doesn’t change where now they will think they can do evil stuff. That’s not the way it works.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 15, 2015 at 5:20 am
 
I was rereading my last comment to Robert and in my last paragraph, I said that a lot of people who leave the JW religion go apostate and the way I should have worded it is that “a lot of people who leave the JW religion go athesistic” instead, but if you go with the meaning that being apostate simply means leaving a religion that you formally believed in, then the word might have fit anyway, but what I really meant was that a lot of people become atheists but just in case some didn’t get what I was saying, I wanted to clear it up with you even though I think most people probably got my meaning anyway. Thanks.

 
 
 
 
 Charles Darwin says:

 November 13, 2015 at 5:34 am
 
@Cedars . Glad to see some of the juvenile comments have been removed . Perhaps some sense can prevail.
Reply
 
 
 
 Charles Darwin says:

 November 13, 2015 at 5:08 am
 
@Sister drifter . Sorry to hear about your marriage . The JW organisation does that to marriages . Is your husband still a JW & if you don’t mind me asking , were you born into the JWs as you say you have been in it for about 60 years .
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:24 am
 
@Sister Drifter UK
Me too. My second marriage was partly destroyed by the dogma of this destructive cult.
I married a df witness, which turned out to be like the Manturian Candidate, when she decided to rejoin the cult. I didn’t realize it was a cult when she decided to go back. I wanted to support her. I studied to try to understand her religion, and they tried to convert me with the ‘bible study’. I started to buy-in, but woke up before I drank the cool-aid due to all the ‘crazy’ and dogma that they were presenting. Then, when my new wife decided to hand me an article from 30 yrs back containing a bunch of bedroom rules and regulations, then I said that’s enough! I basically told my wife that I wanted nothing to do with a religion that feels they have the right to tell a married couple how to behave in their own home. That is going WAY beyond spiritual leadership into mind control land! After that, it wasn’t 6 months before we were separated and headed for divorce.
This cult is, in-part, responsible for my second marriage demise. I hope to live to see the GB’s demise and this dangerous, destructive cult’s demise.
I wish you well. It may be painful as you have a lifetime invested, but you cannot change the past. However, you can value, use, and cherish the freedom you have now. You can have that peace of mind knowing that the WTBTS, the GB, elders, congregation snitchers no longer have a hold on your most valued possession, your mind.
Reply
 
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 November 14, 2015 at 6:51 am
 
To get this discussion back on topic… I think this was an excellent article and well establishes the sentiments of many 2nd and 3rd generation Witnesses who are left picking up the pieces of their shattered extended families. I know that I am viewed as a traitor to my parent’s legacy of isolationism, when I reach out to my unbelieving aunts and cousins who have not been contacted for years by their JW siblings (my parents). I have found much solace in the relationships that I have rekindled with “worldly” extended family. I grieve the loss of some sense of normalcy, and how any of this could be perceived as being a “good witness”, when it’s the ” worldly” members of my family that have shown more long-suffering, patience and kindness than any “holy-spirit” induced actions that my believing family may have begrudgingly made towards their “faithless” fleshly kin.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm
 
Isn’t that a fact Robert! My non witness family – I hate the term ‘worldly’. Have shown such compassion to me as I told them that I am sorry for the years of indoctrination that I tried to thrust on them. They could have told me to go jump but they have opened their arms and are trying to help in whatever ways they can.
Reply
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 15, 2015 at 1:28 am
 
@CAROLINE
 I love your point: “If they were a good person when they had faith, they will still be the same good person after they lose faith.”
The WT study was on a guilt trip exercise this week citing Hebrews 12:1 saying that if we lose our faith we are SINNERS! As a JW in the process of waking up, I can’t believe how I didn’t notice how cruel scriptures used by the WTS like that are. (In that particular example it just says “the sin that easily entangles us” so I’d actually like to know where the WTS come up with that meaning “lack of faith”, but that’s a side point.) According to the WTS, Caroline, I have indeed suddenly become evil. They cross reference Hebrews 3:12: “Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God.”
So now I’m WICKED just because my faith in God is not as strong as it was due to the misconduct of the leaders of his organisation???
 I haven’t even lost my faith in HIM, more so the WTS. Heck, I have very close friends that I don’t speak to that often (even family) but I don’t hear them accusing me of being wicked because I don’t talk to them “in detail, from the heart” etc and vice versa.
 It becomes even more clear the truth of other posters’ comments here, the WTS now is based on CONDITIONAL love. Very sad indeed.
 All the best from Average “Wicked” Joe!
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 15, 2015 at 4:11 pm
 
@CAROLINE
 I love your point: “If they were a good person when they had faith, they will still be the same good person after they lose faith.”
The WT study was on a guilt trip exercise this week citing Hebrews 12:1 saying that if we lose our faith we are SINNERS! As a JW in the process of waking up, I can’t believe how I didn’t notice how cruel scriptures used by the WTS like that are. (In that particular example it just says “the sin that easily entangles us” so I’d actually like to know where the WTS come up with that meaning “lack of faith”, but that’s a side point.) According to the WTS, Caroline, I have indeed suddenly become evil. They cross reference Hebrews 3:12: “Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God.”
So now I’m WICKED just because my faith in God is not as strong as it was due to the misconduct of the leaders of his organisation???
 I haven’t even lost my faith in HIM, more so the WTS. Heck, I have very close friends that I don’t speak to that often (even family) but I don’t hear them accusing me of being wicked because I don’t talk to them “in detail, from the heart” etc and vice versa.
 It becomes even more clear the truth of other posters’ comments here, the WTS now is based on CONDITIONAL love. Very sad indeed.
 All the best from Average “Wicked” Joe!
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 15, 2015 at 4:13 pm
 
Apologies, my comment was posted twice. I couldn’t see it the first time and now two have appeared after posting it again but they are now in between other peoples’ comments and not at the end. My tablet must be playing up. Sorry!
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 15, 2015 at 6:13 pm
 
Average Joe, I got out my husband’s copy of the Watchtower article you were talking about (Stand Firm in the Faith” from the Sept. 15, 2015 study article and I noticed some things that I would also like to point out.
In paragraph 12, the Society supposedly uses Numbers 14:11 and only quotes part of that scripture when it says in the paragraph what Jehovah said to Moses “How much longer will they not put faith in me?” But this is the whole scripture taken from the NWT “Finally Jehovah said to Moses: “How long will this people treat me without respect, and how long will they not put faith in me for all the signs that I performed in among them?”
So, here we have an account where God performed a whole bunch of supernatural signs and yet they did not put faith in Jehovah. When those people supposedly saw supernatural “signs” from Jehovah and still didn’t have faith in Him, why in the world should we today put faith in Him when we have never even seen one sign? Just telling us that we have to have “faith” doesn’t make a person a believer. You can’t force a person to believe something without some evidence or “sign” and then label that person a sinner without one shred of evidence. How can you have “faith” without any evidence?
Paragraph 16 is telling Witnesses to increase their conviction that the end of this system of things really is near by studying in detail the Scriptural proof that we live in the last days. What is interesting about that statement is: What Scriptural proof is there? There are no scriptures sited. I guess Witnesses are just supposed to be able to take the Bible and “prove” to householders that we are living in the last days. Unfortunately, Witnesses have been saying that for over 100 years and all that time they were wrong so what is the “proof” now that hasn’t been seen in the last hundred years?
Paragraph 20 tells the Witnesses “highlight the proof that God exists, that he cares about us, and that the Bible is his inspired Word.”
I have watched a whole bunch of debates between atheists and God believers and I have yet to see any believer come up with any kind of proof that God exists. So, what is the proof that God exists that Witnesses are supposed to know, when the best of Christendom can’t come up with any “proof”? Why doesn’t the Society put some kind of proof for Witnesses that they can use at the door? If the Bible says it’s inspired, that doesn’t make it so.
Any book can make that claim.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 17, 2015 at 8:10 pm
 
Found this wonderful quote in an old watchtower under the heading “Finding Freedom with Jehovah’s Visible Organization’
Quote: “Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587).
The whole article is full of stuff like this ……
Evidences are now conclusive that Jesus Christ was enthroned in heaven in 1914 C.E. and that he accompanied Jehovah to his temple in 1918 C.E., when judgment began with the house of God. (1 Pet. 4:17) After cleansing those belonging to this house who were alive on earth, Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave” and be submissive to it……
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 18, 2015 at 3:35 am
 
Tara –
Scary stuff isn’t it. I still can’t believe I fell for this bull….! The thing is we trusted them to tell us the truth and there was no internet back then to check it up.
 It appears that all the evidence we need is now at our fingertips. ‘The true knowledge has become abundant…’
Although those of us involved with this religion used to have a firm faith in ‘God’, it seems that many have now become agnostic or atheist.
 The Bible has become poisonous to many who have suffered from its wrong interpretation.
 I, like you, still have a belief in a superior intelligence, although I no longer call him Jehovah. Research shows that this name was conjured up by a Catholic bloke many years ago.
 The only way for me is to read it without undue influence from anyone. To rid oneself from the indoctrination of JWDom is to reject their ideas and start all over again.
 When I researched the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 BC, I found that the true dates were backed up by history, archaeology and the Bible! Something the witnesses failed to accomplish, hence the controversy.
 Personal research into all things is so important in order to find real truth. It has helped me to maintain a belief in a creator.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 18, 2015 at 7:05 am
 
@Bad Penny, the Society didn’t “fail to accomplish” anything when it comes to the destruction of Jerusalem. They have known for over thirty years that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 B.C.E. and if anybody shows them (elders-Governing Body) solid proof that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 B.C.E. that person will be called on the carpet and charged with apostasy.
There is no controversy when it comes to when Jerusalem was destroyed (586/587) but that is a fact that the Society feels it has to keep from the rank and file.
The sad thing is though, that no matter what the Governing Body comes up with that is “new light” the rank and file will swallow it and never give it a thought.
The Watchtower could come up “new light” that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587/586 and the Witnesses would still believe it was the truth and I think that because I am going by how my husband reacts when I point out any lies from the Watchtower. He doesn’t care.
I am almost 100% positive that hardly anybody would react badly or leave the Organization if the Society said they made a mistake when it comes to 586/587. They would just think how humble the Society was.
They have learned to sleep walk through life by letting the Society do all their thinking for them.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 18, 2015 at 7:41 am
 
Caroline –
I know we are going off topic here but this issue was the main reason I left JWs.
 I used to think the same as you that if the Society admitted they were wrong on 607, the sheep would accept it and continue to ‘sleep walk’. Problem for them is if they did go by 586 it would throw out 1914.
 Every publication since the year dot would have been wrong – which of course we who are out now know!
 It would be far too bitter a pill for them to swallow. I believe they will stick to this false teaching no matter what.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 18, 2015 at 9:38 am
 
Bad Penny, I think you are absolutely right. That is why it is so important to disfellowship anybody who comes along and disputes 607 B.C.E. The 1914 doctrine would go away too and if anybody had even an ounce of understanding would realize the whole thing is bunk.
I was only going by what my husband is like. It really doesn’t matter what I say to him, it’s like water off a duck’s back and that is because he’s 3rd generation and all his family were all Witnesses, plus two of our kids and he could never admit that he was wrong. If he realized it was not the truth after all, he’d be out in the cold with all of them and I don’t think he could deal with that. It’s not realizing the Society lies. It’s the loss of all his family is what he couldn’t stand to take.
It would be a good way to exit, is if the Society finally admitted they were wrong about the dates 607 and 1914 and let people exit if they wanted to gracefully but I don’t see that ever happening.

 
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 18, 2015 at 8:43 am
 
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the GB made an announcement that ‘We the FDS have received a memo from heaven that our dates are out by 20 years and that we are to humbly except these new changes without throwing our dummy/soother out of the pram. Any who feel that they can no longer, in good conscience stay in the Org. can leave with no ill effects and no fear of being shunned – by order of the Management.
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 18, 2015 at 10:52 am
 
@Bad Penny, truly you cannot pour new wine into old wine skins. You are spot on regarding the having to start over again as far as scripture goes. I congratulate you on not giving up in your search for answers. I don’t know if you play an instrument or not, but it’s kind of like finally finding the zone in a difficult piece of music you’ve been trying to learn, once the bigger picture starts to fall into place.
It is also accepting that not a single man God used to write the Bible was a master of any science or had the satisfying of our curiosities as a goal in their writings. Seeing the narratives from the period and cultural perspectives of the respective author we can understand a bit better what could have influenced their style of writing.
These stories are thousands of years old and should not be expected to answer all of our questions, but we should pay attention to the questions the co-author of all of them wants to answer.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 18, 2015 at 12:51 pm
 
Robert, according to the Bible, it is inspired of God and so those men who wrote the Bible books didn’t need to be masters of science since it was God who supposedly told them what to write down, and so it “should be expected to answer all our questions” and and what do you mean by “we should pay attention to the questions the co-author of all of them wants to answer?” I don’t understand that sentence but it sounds evangelical to me.
As to how old the Bible is and the culture of the time, as long as it was God who wrote the Bible, it shouldn’t be telling us it’s okay to be burning our children if they are disobedient or stoning somebody to death if they work on the Sabbath and it shouldn’t be okay to sell your children into slavery and it should not be okay to be burning your one and only child as a burnt sacrifice to God if you win a battle like Jephthah did and it shouldn’t be okay for a man to rape a girl and if nobody hears her cry out, she will be stoned to death if she’s engaged and if she’s not engaged, then she has to marry the rapist and I could go on……..
We do understand the Bible and if you keep telling us non believers how we need to be believers, then I will keep coming back with Bible accounts that make me a non- believer.
Just because I don’t think the Bible is inspired of a perfect God, does not make me an atheist. I have no idea how we got here and neither do you. Just because the Bible says “God made it”, doesn’t make it so. You need more evidence than that to convince non-believers.
And what does their (Bible writers) style of writing have to do with the Bible books? It’s not the “style” that we care about. It’s the words.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 18, 2015 at 2:39 pm
 
My comment was directed at someone by name. Please search my comment again and find where I directed it at you or non believers. Have fun.
P.S not everything is about you

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 19, 2015 at 3:39 am
 
Robert, you are wrong about me having contempt for the Bible and it’s author. I have yet to be convinced it is perfect, which it should be if it was from God and so I don’t believe it as coming from a perfect God. I can’t hate somebody who I don’t believe in.
I also used to read the Bible the same way as you do. I glossed over all the bad parts, thinking that God made the right decisions etc. I didn’t meditate on the scriptures as I do now.
I have taken the book of Exodus apart, scripture by scripture and every few scriptures, examined it, word for word and even taken other Bibles to compare scriptures, to make sure I got the right meaning and I have enough notes to write a whole book about it and that is just one book of the Bible.
When people read the Bible, they gloss over the parts that don’t make any sense and so it seems like the “good book” to them and holy and from God.
All I ask of you is to look at the Bible with thoughtful meditation, next time you read it. Read the context and think about it. Don’t be afraid to ask yourself if it could possibly be written by imperfect men and not God.
Like I have been saying all along, I don’t necessarily not believe in a God that made everything either. I am saying I just don’t know how we got here, but one thing is for sure, if the Bible is correct and the God of the Bible was real, then yes, that is a God that I would hate, no less than Hitler or any of the other despots in history.
But I don’t believe those stories are real at all so I could hardly hate that God.

 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 18, 2015 at 4:25 pm
 
Robert, your comments are public.
There are a lot of people who also read your comments here besides Tara. My comment was a reply to your comment, regardless of who you addressed it to to stand up for all of us non-believers when it comes to evangelical comments.
Personally, you didn’t offend me if that is what you are thinking. I don’t really care about your comments.
If you stop making those off-handed comments to other people’s comments, about some people not being able to properly interpret the scriptures, then come back with Scriptures that say we are wrong. Come back with scriptures that will give us faith in the Bible being inspired of God. None of us are arguing that there aren’t a lot of good things in the Bible. We are just not convinced it’s from God.
Please don’t imply that we non-believers don’t know how to properly interpret the Bible. You are implying that we are too stupid to understand the Bible’s “real” message, unlike you, who you and maybe all believers seem to think, do “get it”.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 18, 2015 at 10:02 pm
 
No, your really don’t get it. How can you possibly say that we see the bible the same way. Look at your stream of comments versus mine. We definitely do not see the Bible the same way.
My reading of the Bible is through eyes of unwavering faith that has gone through every sense of doubt, anger, denial over both scripture and God in light of the false Watchtower manipulation of it and still, my faith in its author remained intact by arduous and constant prayer and decades of never ending research.
Faith isn’t something any one of us is obligated to have.
You see the HolyBible as another book of mythology, a book you’ve grown to take a personal disliking to. How is it you can even fathom the idea of us understanding this book the same way I have no idea.
It is sad that most people who claim to still believe in the Bible and the God along with Christ the savior won’t lift a finger to defend them from slander on this site.
I appreciate you calling me out on expressing a pro Bible point of view on this site and I’ll continue to point out your contempt for both it and its author. It is the perfect balance.

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 20, 2015 at 10:00 am
 
Robert, it is interesting that the only place in the Bible where it talks about Jesus washing the feet of his apostles is at the 13th chapter of John. Matthew, Mark and Luke do not mention this incident. The book of John was written decades after Jesus died. It was even written after the Revelation. There is no proof who the author of John or Revelation was, even though they are attributed to the apostle John.
There are many things in the book of John that supposedly happened that none of the other gospel accounts talk about so it seems obvious that the story of Jesus was embellished over decades of people relating the stories about Jesus and this story about the washing of the apostle’s feet is probably one of them.
I don’t have a problem with the Bible or it’s God, because I don’t believe it was “inspired”. We have no original manuscripts so during the thousands of years that the Bible has been used and read and copied by hand, there is no way to know what any of the originals even said.
That isn’t to say that there are are not a lot of good things in the Bible. Of course a lot of the things in the Bible are comforting and good advice but that doesn’t make it “inspired”. If you can prove it’s inspired, I will believe.

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 20, 2015 at 10:56 am
 
[edit: Epic-length off-topic comment removed. Robert67, I understand you see yourself as offering balance to a readership that seems to be mostly secular, and you are welcome to post respectful, non-evangelical posts to that end. However, you are absolutely not allowed to hijack our site with War and Peace-length essays to drive home your theology. By all means set up your own site to do that, or go to a Christian-JW site (there are many) to set up your stall. Off-topic comments are clearly prohibited in our posting guidelines, and while we let a small number through the net – right now you seem to be among those perpetuating them, and with a strong evangelical slant to boot. Please take your medicine and cut it out, or you know I won’t think twice about taking the decision out of your hands. Thanks. Lloyd]

 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 21, 2015 at 5:10 am
 
Facepalm, tried to copy and paste a paragraph off an essay and it must have copied the whole page. I posted on tablet and couldn’t catch the mistake in the small comment window. Will double check in the future.

 
 
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 18, 2015 at 7:12 am
 
Tara, I remember lots of times when people commented at the Book Study how they thought that the Bible actually only belonged to Jehovah’s Witnesses because they were the only ones who God was talking through and could interpret it correctly because God was blessing the Organization with the growth etc. I believed all that bull**** too, all those years, without questioning it and all those years, I was always afraid of Armageddon.
So many Witnesses talk about how great it would be after Armageddon, but honestly, I think it scares them but they just don’t want to say it out loud because they are supposed to be “happy” about it. If you pressed them on it, they would have to say they are scared because we were always drilled with “if” we make it through Armageddon and if you said you “were” going to live through Armageddon, then you would be considered crazy for assuming.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 18, 2015 at 8:32 am
 
My faith has become something personal to me now. It is my relationship with God that matters. My prayers, I hope, are more heartfelt. I think the org. presume too much in that they alone can ‘read’ the Bible and interpret it. I dislike the new silver Bible and usually take my old, tatty, much underlined and cross referenced one, to any meetings I go to. We were told ubder no circumstances were we to mark in our new ones…. Why? because it doesn’t look nice to people on the doors.
 Thats ok, I don’t go out anymore lol….. pass the highlighters…. all colours.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 18, 2015 at 2:44 pm
 
@Tara Im with you on not using the silver sword. The only time I use it, is to cut and paste a scripture from the jw app. I know, I need to stop using it and I will; as soon as I do research on a good alternative . Not really into the old English.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 November 18, 2015 at 4:10 pm
 
@ROBERT67
 Try using the Jamaican New Testament. I much prefer it to the NWT (especially the new one) when using English. I love the Patwa dialect and love to see it written down.
 @TARA
 I use the old NWT too as we still don’t have the new one in Spanish yet thank goodness.

 
 
 Tara says:

 November 18, 2015 at 6:50 pm
 
It is very difficult to use the King James but I use one at home for personal reasons. My old NWT i use at the few meetings I go to. I pointed out to a few that the silver one says ‘about 1914’ In Appendix B1. I didn’t get a straight answer from anyone esp. the elders. But at least it gave them pause for thought.

 
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 18, 2015 at 6:26 pm
 
Tara –
I didn’t know they couldn’t mark their Bibles now.
 Like you, I still refer to my old maroon bible as well. All the work that was put into cross referencing has largely been reduced in the new silver version. I never took a copy for myself but have looked at them. The Society has changed the wording again to reflect their own agenda, i.e. changing the words in Luke 23:21 from “Impale him” to “To the stake”.
We also use ‘The Expanded Bible’ which opens up the translation somewhat.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 20, 2015 at 8:13 am
 
I honestly cannot use it. I feel so deceived by the WT that I mistrust the new one. ‘Oh it’s to simplify the wording for a new ‘generation’ excuse the play on words there…. ‘It’s so people who are not familiar with terminology can understand’…. No actually, it enforces doctrine. It uses wording synonymous to the WT.. Give me my years old KJ Bible that my Mum and Dad bought me.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Innocent Son says:

 November 18, 2015 at 1:47 pm
 
Wow! What a powerful article! I can relate to so much of what’s been said. As for other comments, I guess there will always be ones that come on this site to make trouble and cause mischief, however many, many, ex JW’s myself including, have nothing but praise for Lloyd and all that he’s trying to do. Many use this site as a ‘ Sounding Board ‘ to vent their anger and frustration at the Governing Body and for all of their wasted years in being loyal and misguided. The pro’s far outweigh the con’s. I hope it attracts many more ex and current JW’s for help advice and or support. I know It’s literally been a life saver for me so thank you Lloyd and everyone who offers support. Regards.
Reply
 
 
 Art Fern says:

 November 20, 2015 at 8:48 pm
 
Is nothing too sacred for the Watchtower to not wish to take the most superstitious and controlling route, in this case to destroy family units? I can’t think of any other groups other than another Adventist offshoot, the Church of God who takes such a extreme position? I have been to weddings and funerals in every type of church you can imagine, those involved come from a variety of faiths yet they suspend their differences in order to enjoy a great family event. What the bloody hell is the GB afraid of? Is it simply isolation that is the goal? If so, there isn’t a better sign of a controlling cult.
 Rule Number 1
 The Governing Body is always right.
 Rule Number 2
 When the Governing Body is wrong refer to Rule Number 1
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 21, 2015 at 8:30 pm
 
I’m about to rant so for those who don’t like ranters please turn away now.
My business takes me into various places and one of them happens to be a YOGA – yes a YOGA centre and guess what! I was spotted inside said YOGA spot doing what I do by an elders wife. hahahaha and I waved at her because I don’t give anymore. No I wasn’t even doing YOGA! I was in the office area in full view of the road…. so waiting for madam snitchy britches to go to her hubby and spill the beans…. strike one.
A dear friend of mine is an awesome artist and painted many pictures from a certain book that WT deem terrible because it has Orc’s, Elves and wizards in it – whoopy T doo! So do half of the disney movies! My family has a connection to this artist and he posted pictures of his painting on my fb site and I happened to mention I had seen the movie with these scenes in them and made a comment about the area blaa blaa blaa…. madam snitchy britches mark 2 was upset and spoke to my daughter about how terrible it is that I watched said movie when the end is do close – strike 2.
Well those on top of attending my df’d sons wedding should be enough to have me hung drawn and quartered. So livid tonight that I think I may just go watch the prequels to said movies just because I am a rebellious YOGA loving (actually I can’t do any of the moves in yoga because my back is knackered after a car accident and I have never done yoga in my life because WT deemed it too terrible) bad association, evil, apostate type person. So damn what – BITE ME!
Rant over.
Reply
 
 
 jason says:

 November 21, 2015 at 10:06 pm
 
I am continuing to feel a healing from articles such as yours. My family has too suffered similar grief and unimaginable trouble…all stemming from Watchtower indoctrination. My mum after becoming a witness when she married my dad, basically had severed all ties with her family to comply with Watchtower policy. Although my dad always insisted she still keep in touch…but same thing, my mum’s siblings died and she never went to funeral or church in keeping with Watchtower policy. My oldest brother striving to please Watchtower, reaching out to get approval for becoming a Ministerial Servant, gave up a well paying job, to take a more dangerous part time job allowing him to attend meetings and pioneer. He got killed in a work related accident. I blame Watchtower for that directly, because they influenced his decision to what occupation he must accept. My sister suffered seventeen years living with a abusing husband because Watchtower policy was she could not divorce or leave. The elders in the congregation laid the blame of everything on her, for not totally being submissive to her husband and giving him reason to violently physically abuse her. Finally she got courage up to leave him and get a divorce…having to go to a secure woman’s shelter to get away. Even still the local elders would come telling her she must return to her husband because she was bringing reproach on Jehovah’s name. She eventually got disfellowshipped over this. But now is happily remarried to an unbeliever who’s an awesome person. She still suffers from nightmare and flashback of living with her first husband and the way the elders treated her. And me, I endured years of school being the only witness…no extra curricular activities or anything as is required of witnesses. No higher education or college…which I still fight with having to take physical labour jobs at low pay, and some day hope to get a better education to end this circle. My mum is still an active witness at 76 years old…but after my dad died she had to return to full time employment to help pay the bills. She is in contact with my sister and her new family…because she’s a good mum and disregards Watchtower on the subject of shunning although not openly. My family has suffered so much as so many others have too, because of Watchtower control and unrelenting indoctrination. I am thirty-five, and have been inactive for the past ten years, but only recently have I taken an keen interest in the goings on of the Watchtower…YouTube video has been invaluable…and I share the ones of interest with my mum. She’s troubled by recent letters from Headquarters read to local congregations regarding layoffs at bethel, discontinued circuit overseer visit and the like because of lack of financial support…the debit machines in Kingdom Halls and the constant coercion to give more money…
Keep up your good work!!! You help many people like myself and my family make sense of this all. And realizing we are not alone helps tremendously. I believe Watchtower Governing Body Members are delusional, fear mongering, mythomaniacs…
I can only hope their reign of fear inspired control and abuse ends soon with their current financial situation and internal conflict.
Reply
 
 
 jason says:

 November 21, 2015 at 10:30 pm
 
You all do a wonderful job! I find a healing in reading others stories, and realizing my situation is not unique. Keep up the great work!
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 21, 2015 at 11:50 pm
 
The strength we all receive here Jason is amazing. I never thought I would have the courage to answer two elders with the words “My conscience is clear’ when they asked me to justify going to my df’d sons wedding came from the loving support of many on here. It’s like turning around to the school bully and saying ‘No’. Anyone remember that scene in “Willow’ where he turns to Queen Bavmorda and says ‘no’. That’s how I felt standing up to the elders. NO NO NO.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:08 pm
 
Tara –
Sooo glad you went to your son’s wedding and stood up to the elders.
 I knew a sister who didn’t go to her disassociated daughter’s wedding because the P.O. at the time advised her not to and she didn’t want to displease ‘Jehovah’.
Her daughter and her daughter’s husband now hate JWs with a vengeance. All their friends and non JW relatives all thought it disgusting. Good witness eh???
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:14 pm
 
Oh for sure. If I had not gone Jehovah’s name would have been mud but they don’t see it that way.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 December 1, 2015 at 4:25 pm
 
Just watched this & wow! Scary.



Reply
 
 
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← The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead” →
 
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism?
avatar 
Posted on November 13, 2015

Jaden - a boy with autism being raised as a JW, as featured in the October JW Broadcasting episode
Jaden – a boy with autism being raised as a JW, as featured in the October JW Broadcasting episode

When I became a father I was so excited about raising a child. I eagerly awaited the arrival of my son and when he joined our family I immediately fell in love all over again. It was an amazing journey raising him through infancy and early childhood.
When he was a toddler I noticed there was something extremely different about him, but I could not put my finger on it. It was his preschool teacher that helped me understand what was happening. She’d observed what appeared to her as “sensory processing” problems.
The environment of a structured preschool socially overwhelmed him. He would not interact with the other children and he was always found doing his own thing away from others. He was kind of trapped inside his own little world.
Social situations overstimulated him to the point where he’d have to sooth himself with various hand motions in front of his face. Slowly, over time, he joined the group and preschool became a therapy for him in all kinds of ways that he was developmentally behind with.
My wife and I decided to have him checked and what we got back was the diagnoses of “high functioning Autism.” Autism can be an extremely frightening word for a parent, and the term hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew something was wrong, so part of me was relieved that we now had a direction to go in and didn’t have to guess anymore.
I’m very glad that my family were not Jehovah’s Witnesses through that part of my life. I cannot imagine trying to get to meetings, stay at meetings and go out in regular field service while having a child with special needs. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to take him to stadiums full of 10,000 people where they all clap simultaneously to someone speaking on a loud PA.
That, I can safely say, would be absolute hell.
Apparently, that’s exactly what families are doing according to the October 2015 JW Broadcasting episode (53:45). It features a testimony given by a young boy who happens to have the same diagnosis as my son.
Not the whole picture
The video is well produced and directed, and has a very effective soundtrack. The boy tells the story about how being a Jehovah’s Witnesses is “easy,” but didn’t use to be. At first being Autistic was extremely difficult, both for him and his parents, but over time things got better and he ended up loving his life as a Jehovah’s Witness.
I must admit the boy seems genuinely content with his life, but the producers of the film are not telling you the whole story. The boy recalls that, at first, the congregation didn’t understand his issues, but then he goes on to say:

“The friends in the congregation have helped me by doing whatever they need to do to help me stay on the road to life.”
When you read the above statement just as words on a screen, away from the rich production, they come across totally differently. In the video there are light chimes and a spirited piano melody playing in the background. Strip away all that, and it’s easier to see the true state of affairs.
His congregation believes in a scenario where their deity would brutally execute an Autistic boy for not being a Jehovah’s’ Witness. That’s why they are helping him, because they see him as being in grave danger.
This amounts to phobia indoctrination, and is tantamount to coercion by way of emotional control. In other words, they are using the fear of an imminent and painful death to retain his membership in their religion.
The very next scene shows the boy and his mother at a desk with one of the JW.org comic strips laid out next to a self-typed report. This really shows that the comics are not mere leisure activities, but are actually study tools for the young Witness children.
These comics sometimes cover stories in the Bible with extremely graphic content, such as their comic on the story of Lot’s wife and her divine execution. The pictures they use to depict her death are extremely graphic and intense.
Instead of being simple fables, these stories are considered to be historical accounts that are taken extremely seriously. No doubt the Autistic boy in the film has studied these images, and is deeply affected by them.
Using fear in this manner is no way to raise any child, let alone one with special needs.
Only a matter of time
Even though the video really does have this depressing feel to it, there is a silver lining to the story. No matter how hard the Watchtower tries to control the information their membership takes in, they can’t control it all. Because of the time that this Autistic boy lives in, he will no doubt one day encounter the other side of the story. He will find his way to the ex-JW’s.
High functioning Autistic people are often highly logical and have a knack for critical thinking. There is one thing that the organization is lacking severely: logic. Their doctrines don’t make sense, and as this child grows up he will undoubtedly see this.
There are so many plot holes in the story that the Watchtower tells about itself. There are so many questions they leave unanswered or half-answered. Once this boy encounters the truth about the “Truth,” it will all likely start to click for him, and he will leave. Unfortunately, as ex-JW’s know, this experience doesn’t come without a price, and is never easy.
Better options
If you are a parent with an Autistic child, and you are a Jehovah’s Witness or considering joining, I urge you to proceed with extreme caution. Watchtower is an organization with a history of exploiting children for their own gain. And judging by this new video, they are not above targeting children with special needs and their families.
In my experience there is a lot of support available for families who are caring for children with special needs. There are a lot of people out there who want to help, and don’t employ undue influence, like group shunning or phobia indoctrination.
One of the most important things you can do is create a strong support system of people who will be with you through the good times and the bad. The worst thing you could do is surround yourself with people who love conditionally, impair critical thinking and are constantly obsessing over the end of the world.
 
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← The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead” →
 
129 Responses to The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism?


Newer Comments →
 
 Mama Joy says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:11 am
 
The Jehovah’s Witnesses have no room for mistakes. Unless the autistic person is obedient, they will abandon these children.
Reply
 
 
 Phoenix_Rising says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:26 am
 
I can recall while growing up in the truth similar families. At assemblies and conventions single moms who had children with clear disabilities and how miserable an experience it was for the kids and the parent’s. I remember seeing the same few families struggling with kids every spring and fall – until they slowly all but disappeared (I assume faded away or left by choice or kicked out.) Looking back it makes me sad to think how annoyed people would be around them since they were causing a ruckus. And how sad some single mom with a child with special needs was grasping onto some hollow idea that this was the answer to all their problems. It really breaks my heart that simple broken people are easy prey for the JW’s in the ministry. They see what appears to be smart, well spoken, clean dressed people expressing an interest and with a good message and they cling to it. I mean this in the nicest way – but lets be honest here. Whenever you met a new bible study it rarely was a college grad, a dr, a lawyer or someone established. It was often poor, uneducated, borderline mental health sufferers themselves. The ones who answered for the first time at a meeting and you just wanted to slide under your chair and die lol!
 But this article is spot on that the one size fits all approach the JWs have. But guess what. It doesn’t. A child with disabilities shouldn’t be in a crowded stadium. What is even scarier to me is the idea that boy in the video gets baptized then gets disfellowshipped. What happens to him then? Makes my head spin.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:47 am
 
When I was an Elder there was a person who started coming to the Kingdom hall. He was a full grown adult of maybe 50 years old. He was obviously not mentally normal, although he lived on his own in his former parents home. He needed help from many different Angles.He eventually got baptized and would go out in FS.I worked with him a few times also. The long story short he needed hewlp in his life from all angles, He needed a rides to the meetings, shopping, cleaning etc also needed help making proper financial decisions. A friend of his Bible study took him out a few times and he ended up doing something that got him disfellowshipped! The brothers would not help him anymore.The dropped him like a lead balloon. No more help, no more love, no more visits etc. One night I was driving home in a blistering cold night and I saw him at a Bus stop and I stopped and gave him a ride home. He was still rambling about how he did not want to be destroyed at Armageddon to me. I asked id anyone visited him ever? he said No.
 I felt bad for him and told him to call me for help. Which he did and I would help him and give him a ride, buy groceries etc. There was No HELP from the Elders or Congregation at all. The only help they ever gave him was a ride to the memorial he told me. I felt so bad for this person. Even his neighbors told him his Church was no good for kicking him out and abandoning him and his neighbors wer ewe from the Middle east and were in disbeleif that they just dropped him like that. Yet his mind was still in fear of being destroyed at Armageddon? Wow!
 He wanted to get married and was easily taken advantage off by outsiders. Eventually a Foriegn Young Africa Woman married him tot ake advantage of the fact that he owned a small home and he was a Vet and she would be able to take advantage of some of his veteran benefit and Soc security payments. She rally stayed at his house as she had another apartment she would not give up bc she was getting government aid.He always told me I hope she comes back and lives with me? I told him MArk,…, she does not love you she just wants your belongings and future widowers pension. It is a sad story and the way he was just cut -off and as a mentally handicapped person in need they did nothing to help him but let “worldly” people take advantage of him and steal whatever he has.THis is what JW and the WT teach their people to do. Where is the love of the true religion?
Reply
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 13, 2015 at 11:24 am
 
That is such a sad story but one I guarantee has played out in other Halls. It is hard for me to type this as I feel I am picking on people – but it would be worthy of an article to talk about the high percentage of JW’s who had mental health issues that stayed in the organization or were enlisted from the preaching work. Back in my hall I swear there was one Looney for every normal brother or sister. A typical person that fits that description is someone who always bashes the Catholics in their comments, doesn’t have a family anymore, suffers from depression, probably overweight, needs help getting around, goes out in service with the Pioneers just to be dead weight in the back of the car, is on assistance from the government etc. My old hall was full of people like this. Yet before I was awake these were the people who were always the first at the hall and the last to leave – hardly ever missed a meeting. It truly was their entire little world and universe. I always felt unworthy as I would do anything to stay at home and watch Seinfeld or the Office then trudge to the hall on a Thursday night. But now having fully awakened I cant imagine shattering their world with the truth about the truth. I cant imagine a person who has given up everything and is in their 60’s could suddenly pick up where they left off. That is one thing that I have come to terms with is that the elders and JW’s as a whole are not evil. But the organization has turned into this entity with its own agenda that’s so misguided that the rank and file keep it going and hurt others and don’t even realize it. It’s the saddest con I have ever seen. You have people who are conned conning other people! Reread that sentence. Its sad! I remember a sister in my old hall – she was brought in during her hippie years. And of course her family opposed her so she cut off all contact. She has been on government assistance ever since. She is now alone in a tiny apartment in her 60’s. She is the classic loveable looney – makes off the wall comments – praises new light and the increase in numbers. And spends all her time writing letters to people in the obituaries. 40+ years wasted for nothing. It kills me.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 16, 2015 at 6:02 am
 
I can definitely attest to this comment because there was a brother in one of my old hall’s who fit the above description well. He was so mentally off after a bad accident that the self control center in his brain shut off. My wife is a therapist in the hospital and works with traumatic brain injury patients all the time. Some just lose their filter wholesale. This brother would grope the sisters in the back seat and get smacked repeatedly until the brothers decided he could only work with other brothers. More one size fits all foolishness. Well he eventually did something that got him disfellowshipped. This was someone who was utterly dependant on other people for the same things. Shopping, rides to the meeting, rides to the doctor. He felt the same way. In his barely able to speak tone wondering about his future. He was constantly depressed when he was in. As a disfellowshipped person it was exponentially worse. TERRIBLE tragedy for any who fall victim to this. The witnesses are totally oblivious to the damage. They think it’s “loving”.
I also appreciate your comment about Catholic bashing. Their favorite pastime. It reminds me that Tony Morris is one of those witnesses you described. His comments during the annual meeting reflect that.
Reply
 
 Bret says:

 November 16, 2015 at 8:42 am
 
I know we can probably all attest to at least a dozen crazy kooks that we used to not only attend the hall with but also find ourselves at a door with just hoping no one answers the door and sees me with this person! I think that was the worst of it, especially because I was a service overseer and when I visited book studies and made plans with the group for the week it was nothing but kooks lining up to work with me!!!! Oh if only I could have the years back…. 22-40… My best years wasted on a damn cult… My wife and I trapped 13 others in it as well and I now feel like dung for that… At least i got my wife, son and daughter out, with my oldest still trapped at Bethell who has no Idea we have left… Got my older brother and his and son out… Still another brother and his wife and daughter trapped.. I will work on my oldest son when he leaves Bethell in April or May which he has agreed to with to learn a “Trade”…

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Tim smith says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:30 am
 
Thank you james, very insightful article. I have a cousin who is raising an autistic son and I thought of many of the things you mentioned in the article. The part that disturbs me is that everything the watchtower does is spun in such a way as to make them look like they are better than everyone else. In reality they are just another cult trying to indoctrinate followers with their misleading and false propaganda.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 2:57 pm
 
I reckon the org are looking at autistic children as revenue because they will be pursuaded to give their money to the cause as many are not so savvy with their finances a cheap trick! ruthless
Reply
 
 
 
 John freeman says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:44 am
 
In january there is a watchtower study article that mentions a youngster giving a student talk and sobbing all the way through as he gives it. This bears out the above .showing the abuse of young children. I told my wife who is a keen jw that i will not be at that meeting with her as i would likely answer in the meeting and cause an upset . I have been fading out for some months now .woken up by the child molesting cover up i myself suffer from an inner ear condition which afects my balance when in areas of high noise and loud crowds . Last year i took my wife to the regional convention but had to use ear plugs or sit im the car .its no fun but you get no sympathy
Reply
 
 Peggy says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:46 am
 
@john freeman, Is this study article in the 1/16 magazine, or the isue to be studied in jan? What is the title. I can’t find it. I personally knew many children forced to give talks. Very shy, and emotional children.
 Made me sich. Why would someone put their child through this. Many poor readers, embarrassed by critical school elders.
Reply
 
 
 
 MimiLove says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:45 am
 
I have a “classic” autistic child who is now 17. It has been miserable for him as well as myself to see him suffer during the meeting and conventions. When I felt like he was old enough to leave home alone I did…only to be ridiculed by my family and members in the congregation. Some told me that if I didn’t make him come he would be destroyed. Finally I started replying back that if Jehovah was that unmerciful I didn’t want anything to do with him. They have since stopped and my son is so much happier. I am still having to endure this painful cult until the rest of my family wakes up. Thank you James for writing this, I was extremely annoyed by the broadcast and cannot speak my mind without backlash from others.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 2:59 pm
 
With love mimi a fellow mum with two and know the hell and pain our kids went through ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:46 am
 
A few years ago at our Kingdom Hall, there was a young mother with a two year old very normal but rambunctious boy and she was about eight months pregnant and one night one of the nastier sisters at our hall, said to my husband after the Thursday night meeting within two rows of that sister “I don’t know why she’s having another baby when she can’t even take care of the one she’s already got?” That woman said that to my husband after the meeting.
In our Kingdom Hall, every time a child would make any noise, she’d have to turn around and stare at the parents. The young mother that I was talking about here, was going to meetings by herself a lot of the time because her husband was disfellowshipped. Rarely did anybody ever offer to help her.
When my kids were little, my husband was so paranoid about our kids making any noise at the meetings, (he was an elder and couldn’t help me with the kids during meetings) that he talked me into hitting their behinds with a wood spoon and the scripture he used to make me do that was about not spoiling a child but making them mind by using the rod, which was really promoted thirty years ago when my kids were little.
Now days, I’d be thrown into prison for child abuse but it was the norm in the eighties around here. Is it any wonder that when my kids were growing up in the “truth” that they hated me?
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 Robert67 says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:55 pm
 
Beating children at the hall is still the norm in Spanish speaking congregations. Just a few weeks ago we had a speaker brag about how his skills with his belt produced polished servants of Jehovah. He left after his talk, I was definitely going to have words with him. My fiancée tells me about a circuit overseer named Rubalcava from the Chicago area where she’s from that would make it a regular thing to remind parents to beat their kids into submission and sitting still. As a result torturous screams of pain coming from children being whooped in the bathroom are a regular thing all across Chicago Kingdom Halls.
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 Caroline says:

 November 14, 2015 at 4:56 pm
 
Robert, one of the last times I was at my Kingdom Hall, a mother with a little girl about one and half, was a believer in spanking her kids and when her little girl would make noise, the mom would take her in the bathroom and spanked her really hard (just like I did with my kids).
The little girl would get so hysterical that she wouldn’t calm down and I could tell sometimes that she was having panic attacks and couldn’t even catch her breath.
One time I was sitting at the back of the hall and I could hear the little girl screaming and screaming so I went to the bathroom and offered to hold her for the mom who couldn’t calm her down and I took her back to the auditorium and sat down with her and started petting the top of her head like you’d pet a cat and her eyes started getting sleepy and she went right to sleep and slept through the rest of the meeting, but I will never forget the look on that little girl’s face when after the meeting, she woke up and I gave her back to her mom.
Even being just one and half, she had the look of hatred for her mom in her little eyes.
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 Tara says:

 November 15, 2015 at 8:42 am
 
There is a sister in our hall who told me she wore big rings to hit her children with if they misbehaved. She said her mother did the same to her. Another younger sister takes her daughter out and beats her because that’s what her mother did to her also.
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 Caroline says:

 November 15, 2015 at 9:00 am
 
I remember at district assemblies with so many parents in the hallway walking their bored and tired children during the sessions and my husband would always make disparaging comments about those parents who were just too “lazy” to discipline their kids to sit during the sessions and then he’d always add that those people were using their kids as an “excuse” to get up and walk around during the meetings.
Those assemblies are torture for little kids, having to sit in one spot for 3 solid days, with no place to move around and having to sit through hours and hours of boring talks that they can’t even understand.
At least some of those parents who were walking their kids around in the hallway during the talks had some compassion for their kids. Maybe some of those parents do use their children as an excuse to not have to sit there for 3 solid days, but why not?
Those talks are boring and we didn’t learn anything new anyway. It’s always the same thing we had heard hundreds and thousands of times before, only served up at a bigger place, is all.
Now, reading some of the experiences of those who have given their own personal “experiences” at the assemblies that weren’t their experiences after all is eye opening.
It takes me back to the couple at the summer district convention who Lloyd featured in an article not so long ago, who were so proud of themselves that they didn’t talk to their disfellowshipped son and even admitted that the only reason he came back into the “truth” was because his parents wouldn’t talk to him. It wasn’t because he missed Jehovah but it was only because he missed his family.

 
 
 RC says:

 November 16, 2015 at 7:59 pm
 
Hi Caroline,
 Repitition and boredom.Those are Classic indoctrination techniques. The course is designed just for that. I am currently reading Beyond Belief by Jenna Miscavige Hill. The techniques used both on children and adults are astonishingly similar to that of JW.

 
 
 
 EverydayExplorer says:

 November 18, 2015 at 4:48 am
 
That was a truly loving action, Caroline. I respect you so much for having the courage to show a different way of living to that little girl and her mother. You never know, your actions may be resonating now, as the memory of kindness and compassion stays within that little girl — and maybe even her mother.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 DavidR says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:58 am
 
When I lived in the Sacramento CA area I remember hearing about a family in the neighboring town of Eldorado Hills that had two kids and seemed like your typical witness family. Meetings, service, gatherings and vacations. Turns out they had a child with Autism, the rumor mill didn’t know what level and it was when this condition was really becoming more talked about in the 2000s.
So turns out this family decided that”it would be better for the child” to be institutionalized because he was requiring too much time and energy and they needed to “focus on the preaching work”, and since the end was coming soon Jehovah would fix him and make it all better so no worries. I remember people talking about it like this made perfect sense and yet no one stopped to think about why this couple would then go on to have two more children and live their lives like this other child didn’t exist. It really made me see how messed up this cult could make your thinking.
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 Tim Hord says:

 November 13, 2015 at 8:58 pm
 
I have a 24yo autistic son. It was horrible at the hall.
 I have been inactive for 4 years. My wife is a third generation witness with roots to the center of the earth. Those parents should be ashamed. Just because theyre autistic doesnt mean they don’t understand love.
 SICK SELFISH PEOPLE
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 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 3:03 pm
 
DavidR this made my heart bleed i know of a similar case near where i lived. How can they just throw away the child for nuisance sake. I thought it was better to go one eyed into the kingdom not abdicate responsibility for your god given gift and go put hours on a sheet. ruthlee
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 PJ Wilcox says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:12 am
 
For safety and honesty the JWs is the least likely place where one will find security. I have been around this organization and they put people into holds where one cannot virtually breathe. One must up hold their truths which are not truths but lies to propagate their beliefs..
 Imagine an autistic child being sexually abused? The dynamics of that scenario is mind boggling. Have these elders and ministerial servants had enough of their abuse of children? When will they stop? Our courts here in the USA will put a huge damper on this organization. Wait till they lose their tax exempt status. You should see that bill being sent out to every one in the US government and the United Nations. Time is what we have. Time will tell.
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 Robert67 says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:33 am
 
Fantastic article James, really never thought of the challenges an autistic child would face with the JW doctrine. That image of the child against the wall speaks volumes.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 3:13 pm
 
Robert67 i dont usually reply to you. Here goes I do like your thoughts because you have respect for god and still believe. However this is where i find religious people do fall down they don,t think about the challenges our children face .Going in fs is hell for EVERYONE no one gains anything it’s not good or productive and “normal”j dubs are no help whatsoever. Doctrine is a joke as we don’t believe so how do some of those with challenges understand .What they do understand is fear and death at armageddon that lovely carrot dangled on a daily basis. there is no love and kindness not really from religiosos because they only have the concept of a god for mentally sound people there is no place for those who are not the full shilling. I,m not taking a pop at you rob67 just that most elders i have come across really have no clue hope you understand cheers ruthlee
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 Pow says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:40 am
 
As a life long jw, with children and grandchildren. I would say organizationally, children make us uncomfortable. Adults with children ( who are still children ) are not part of the 10,000+bethel family globally, nor involved as c.o’s, missionarys, Christian evangelizers, .ect, ect…why is that? …doctors, presidents, generals, pilots, c.e.o’s, judges, ect, ect all can do the job while raising a family. But not any brother/ sister, in official watchtower employment. We also like children to be seen but not heard, we love photo opportunities, especially if they look and act like mini adults. In another word’s, the concept of having children is NOW ok (keep in mind, we have time and again put out the call for the loyal jws to stop having children, the most recent was in the late 1980s), the reality is less liked.
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 clive says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:49 am
 
I have Asperger’s syndrome and was brought up as a JW. And I have suffered under there indoctrination and phobias. I am now 50 years old and still suffer from there indoctrination. The so called normal people who leave the cult seem to make an easier transition into the world, taking on new beliefs and making a new life and friends. It is not like that for people with Asperger’s syndrome or high functioning autism. Generally people with Asperger’s syndrome will believe anything you tell them as there critical thinking is impaired right off the bat. They don’t stand a chance and the anxiety it causes us is immense.
 People with special needs get taken advantage of at the best of times let alone in a controlling cult like the Jehovah witness.
 I dread to think of how many Autistic JW’s there are being made to suffer under the control of this evil cult
 I think I need to tell my story on Youtube I just need to build up the courage.
 Thankyou for covering this subject there should be more of it
Reply
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:06 pm
 
Clive, You are doing awesome. Thank you
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:41 pm
 
Clive, if you make that YouTube video, please post a link to it. I think it could be beneficial for you and others here. I’m struck by the high number of regulars on this site who have been personally affected by the mistreatment of people with developmental disorders within the Org.
Thanks again to James, for writing a powerful article that resonated with so many here.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 3:18 pm
 
Dear clive write it, publish it ,you tube it. Tell us your story we need you and your understanding. You will be of great value to all of us because some of us are in a quagmire of confusion and pain living the hell life in the org. If you are brave enough to publish your story there will be quite a few here who will listen to what you have to say. Best wishes and kind thoughts to you ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 Queequeg says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:51 am
 
I know this family and their story.
Of course, the real story is much less cozy than the JW broadcasts’ portrayal.
For example, the congregation that Jaden was in when he started showing clear signs of autism (like screaming in pain when people clapped) was not supportive. The “elders” told his parents that they were not disciplining Jaden enough.
It was bad enough that they left that cong., and years later they still called the presiding overseer from that time their “persecutor”.
I hope that they really are in a supportive group now, but that was not their experience previously.
Also, Jaden’s was involved in an intensive therapy for autism called the Son-Rise program. In his case, this therapy was extremely effective and seems to be the reason that he is so high functioning.
You will notice that there was, of course, no mention of this therapy, in spite of it having been a key part of Jaden’s life and progress.
Anyway, just a few tidbits…
Reply
 
 NuthinButThaTroof says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:55 am
 
Hi Queequeg I wonder if we know eachother? :)
Everyone is this broadcast is from a congregation in Southern Oregon, USA. This is actually the second time a broadcast has had experiences from a congregation in this area. As someone that faded and knew this family maybe the next broadcast should tell the story of the kids uncle and his wife. He was a standout JW. Pioneer, former Bethelite. Until he learned TTATT. He and his wife are now free of this cult but being actively shunned by everyone in this video. What a touching story. Barf!
Or maybe they could tell the story of the boys Grandfather who is featured in this video later. I love that they put his title below his name. He is the “Congregation Secretary” what a noble position! Again Barf! This “Gift in Men” tore his previous congregation apart. I won’t go into specifics but he was the PO in my hall at the time and he did something improper that half the congregation wanted him removed for the other half didn’t. He was removed as an elder and when he left the hall he took a large portion of hall with him to his next congregation. He quite literally divided the congregation. But I guess that isn’t causing a division quite like privately questioning the GB is right? Barf.
It’s so sad they are exploiting Jaden. Hopefully one day his uncle can reach out to him and he will get to make an informed decision.
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 Queequeg says:

 November 13, 2015 at 11:01 am
 
It wouldn’t surprise me if we do know each other.
Nice additional info. too!
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 Ready4toFade says:

 November 13, 2015 at 8:45 pm
 
I recognized a formed acquaintance as well, and assume that the “bethel box scene” was staged in Oregon. It’s like any assembly or convention experience I’ve ever been a part of, more concerned with effect than authenticity. You rehearse the lines and are questioned by the interviewer on stage and have “your story” tweaked 20 or 30 times; only to be adjusted once again by the C.O. during the final rehearsal. Eventually, you hardly recognize your own story once you’re telling it. But I believe that to be the whole point, loss of identity. I just can remember feeling so conflicted and awkward being congratulated for experiences which were fabrications of the Elder and C.O. True concessions of a JW childhood star!!! Next on entertainment tonight.
Reply
 
 
 
 Pow says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:01 pm
 
They left out the fact that he had received helpful professional therapy? You mean just watching Caleb &Sophia videos wasn’t the magic pill?
Reply
 
 
 James Strait says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:51 pm
 
Thank you so much for the information!
Reply
 
 
 
 ForestDaughter says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:54 am
 
I tried to leave a comment about that part of the video after reading Lloyd’s article, but I was just too angry and upset and couldn’t find the words. I still don’t think I can talk too much about my experience, as it brings back terrible memories, but suffice to say that I was castigated by the school and my neighbours because they blamed my son’s Aspergus behaviour on me for being a JW. Whereas the JW congregation labelled me a bad mother and bad witness because of his condition. My heart goes out to anyone who has to put up with that kind of ignorance.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 3:23 pm
 
Can i just send you love and empathy it is so hard isn’t it but just writing your experience helps and we love you forestdaughter.Because ive been there and like you i cannot always speak of it emotions run too deep keep going thats what im trying to do. all the best .ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 JBob says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:00 pm
 
Funny how we can pluck the “no blood” mandate from the Law yet Exodus 22:22 and prohibition on eating shrimp or lobster and wearing mixed fabrics flies right on by 7DA and JW’s.
My experience with JW’s is that charity stops at the KH threshhold (even in rural and smalltown, and Middle America)–not literally, but in terms of mentality. If a person with needs is not “interested” or “active,” the charity provision ceases unless that person had a track record that made them seemingly a popular pillar of the congregation. Furthermore, because someone with mental processing abilities or autism (let’s not even cover Turets Syndrome) may not be convenient at social gatherings, the bias in some individuals, and usually those with the greatest impact on socialization inside the congregation–elders, relatives of the elders, or the ones they brought across the threshhold [yeah, like vampires], causes these to create a social strata that excludes the inconvenient and odd individuals.
Poor, autistic and in some cases where “white” still rules the population count, ethnic members who haven’t become quite as WASP-y as desired, can find themselves outside the social circles–invitations to formal events don’t count and friendly smiles after you get into the KHall also don’t count. Are you getting friendly calls just to chit-chat? or, “hey I’m going on this ___, do you want to come with?” or, even a simple “hey come on over for a casual bite to eat”. “Going for coffee–and, I got you a cup, too!” Texting? Nada?
In my experience those outside the “social close-knit” circle were the first ones to find themselves kicked out. And, there’s a simple explanation. If I’m not IN your JW social circles, I am left to form my own ties–probably with persons in my neighborhood, school, or work. So, the first nosey JW that drops by and sees me associating with “worldly” and “bad associations” drops a dime on me to the elders and I’m in the little room in the back defending why I made my choices, which comes off as “unrepentant” and “defiant”. Boom! [yes, that’s the hammer of kangaroo justice coming down]
But, let’s also note that autistic and mentally challenged children would be at risk in an environment that is KNOWN to shelter and go out of its way to ASSIST pedophiles away from prosecution.
What I consider this to be are those JW’s who think being godly requires matching a form and fashion of outwardly appearances, yet to quote Him, “on the inside as corrupt as graves”.
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 13, 2015 at 12:50 pm
 
My observations when I used to attend meetings:
-anyone who was different or special needs and who “did not fit the witness mold” – generally not part of the social circle
-parents with small children at the meetings who did not sit still and quiet were not tolerated – icy stares given to them and in some cases they were talked to by the elders. I always felt sorry for the single parents or mothers or fathers who would take their children to the back of the hall just because the child was just being a child perhaps laughing or crying or gurgling or trying to get comfortable on some very uncomfortable chair.
-single parents or individuals who did not have spouses that attended the meetings – generally treated politely but usually excluded from social circles.
So basically the congregations were really platforms for the ones who appeared to be spiritually strong – who had more hours in the service, who were always on the stage showing what a perfect witness family was supposed to look like.
For those who were different there was really no love no kindness no compassion and ultimately no time available. For many parents with a child who had special needs it could be truly a hostile environment.
But Jesus loved all children and all people – Too bad the witness religion has not followed his example.
Reply
 
 notasheep says:

 November 13, 2015 at 2:18 pm
 
my husband did not attend, I was never included in social circles, neither were any of my children, they are considered bad association. Always pressured to try and get someone to study with my husband or children, always an outcast. Every time a talk about marrying only in the lord certain people would turn and give me looks. Even before, when I was a child/teenager I was never really included, not part of the circle. I was different, my parents were extremely strict, no one wanted to come to my house. It was a lonely existence for me. I would try to have a sleep over or party and maybe 2 people would come, others had parties and everyone went. The proclaim love, but many of us never really felt it, and I definitely didn’t see it.
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 rob says:

 November 13, 2015 at 4:20 pm
 
Thank you for providing your experience.
In my opinion, a religion, a congregation is supposed to be a harbor for all individuals. It is supposed to be accepting and welcoming and provide refuge for those that it need it the most. More importantly it is supposed to provide all members with a feeling of inclusion and give them comfort and happiness.
So many have provided experiences of the witness religion providing them with the exact opposite. No wonder so many have left and no wonder so many that are still in are becoming disillusioned.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:11 pm
 
That comment is so true about the meetings being platforms for the spiritually strong, who had lots of hours in field service and had the perfect family, with the quiet obedient children, who sat at the front of the hall like proud peacocks. My family could never live up to this.
Our children were 4 and 6 when we decided to take the plunge. Our daughter found it extremely hard to comform to the shape that the Watchtower wanted her to be. She struggled so hard with meetings and I would be expected to take her outside and wack her for this, which I hated doing. My children were just different. Actually, they were just typically children in the 80’s. They loved playing, enjoyed reading their little books (which I was quickly told not to being the the meetings) and needed time to do their own thing as children do. They never got this free time as all the other children did not either.
I would watch one particular mother take her toddler outside with her hand across her mouth so that no sound escaped. Goodness knows what kind of cruelty went on in that household.
When I was studying, a ‘perfect’ Witness mother came along with the woman who was studying with me. She was extremely strict with her little 3 year old daughter. I could not help noticing. When I questioned her discipline, she promptly told me that she had smacked her children from the time they were 6 weeks old. Can you imagine that? I certainly couldn’t. What possible reason could you have for hitting a six week old baby? Misguided child abuse reigns supreme with these people. The woman I was studying with, assured me later that this girl with the child was unusually strict. I heard later her husband was a pedophile. Strange family set up there. The poor child.
And as far as exclusion is concerned, our family was certainly excluded. We were seen as some kind of threat because we came in out of the world. Somehow, everything we did was wrong and yet we were following the guidelines of what the Watchtower was telling us in trying to have a simple life.
While I was watching this video which went with the article, which is very interesting by the way, I could not help noticing the crap which was being said about how tiresome life was as an ordinary normal person. It was so evil to see them create this reverse way of thinking. Total brainwashing and absolute control by making people feel guilty about having a normal job that paid enough to live on and enough for the occasional holiday. What the hell is wrong with that?
I could not finish watching it anymore as it made me sick to my stomach. Good job James for bringing this video out. It was an eyeopener for me. Watchtower in full disgusting colours. Just as I always remembered it.
Reply
 
 
 
 notasheep says:

 November 13, 2015 at 2:05 pm
 
My son has Autism and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Life was very difficult for me the first seven years of his life. Meetings were impossible, the music, clapping, too many people, he would scream the entire time. He screamed most of the night the first four years of his life, never slept more than 2 hours at a time and I also worked. I was exhausted so basically disappeared. My family was supportive in the fact that they watched him while I was at work, he would not go to anyone else, Daycare was out of the question. But no one, and I mean no one ever gave me any kind of help at all. When we were finally able to get a diagnosis, and learn about Autism I realized that if I most likely have it as well, and I think that is why my parents and the WT had such a tight hold over me for so long, the fear instilled in me from birth was what kept me coming to the meetings, kept me from asking questions, kept me from even allowing myself to think about the things I noticed that bothered me. But a series of events happened and I woke up, abruptly. I am so glad I did not force my son to endure meetings that traumatized him. I did not indoctrinate him with fear, only love. Did not make a child who gets severely car sick sit in a vehicle for hours out in field service- like I was made to do. I pioneered out of high school and would be so ill after a couple of hours, but you have to get those hours in…. I have seen handicapped persons of all sorts baptized and then abruptly disfellowshipped and shunned by their family. I knew I could never do that to my children, it was one of the things that held me back after I became a mother. I watched this video about Jaden and it upset me so deeply I started crying, my husband watched it and he was so angry he couldn’t even talk about it. The picture in the article of Jaden standing alone, that was me, that was my brother, that would be my son if I hadn’t stopped the cycle. I see pain and suffering in this boys face and words. Thanks WT, for giving me one more reason to know I did the right thing and walk away.
Reply
 
 beearose says:

 November 13, 2015 at 6:04 pm
 
you sound like a wonderful mother..so glad you escaped! its tough but so worth it!
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 Robert67 says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:00 pm
 
You absolutely did the right thing
Reply
 
 
 
 Nathan says:

 November 13, 2015 at 2:16 pm
 
Nice article James,
 I remember being a young kid at a meeting and noticing someone that seemed off to me. She was a middle aged lady. She was making noise during a meeting,(obvious to me now that she had mental issues or turrets or something along those lines) and was eventually ushered out of the kingdom hall by the elders. When I asked my mother what was wrong with her, mom stated, very emphatically, “oh she is possessed by the devil.”
Even at a very young age, that comment seemed very illogical, especially since my mother hadn’t even spoke to this person or knew them, but yet was willing to throw them away due to her paranoia.
 ignorance breeds ignorance, and ignorance is all that it taught in JW cult.
Reply
 
 
 if only says:

 November 13, 2015 at 4:42 pm
 
My three grandchildren are on the spectrum. One classic autism, one asperchick, and one autism with pda. I am soooooo glad that they are not being forced to sit through a meeting. Or assemblies. All three have sensory issues, with smells, noise and texture. None of them like being touched and hate people talking to them. One cannot talk and make rather loud sounds. One cannot stop talking, even in loud whispers. The third one sometime becomes a cat for hours on end, and I mean hours (especially under stress, it is her coping strategy) she meows constantly and rubs herself against your legs. Can you imagine them being used in the theocratic school. The non verbal would sit and appear to be listening to the one who was talking him under the table, while the cat meows and purrs away. The horrible reality is that in fact their poor parents would probably spend most of their time deflecting glares, that eventualy send them retreating into the back room. As it is they have their own faith. It is in each other. I am so proud to be an exjw.
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 beearose says:

 November 13, 2015 at 5:46 pm
 
this story and the comments have really moved me. I know the stories are true, I have seen first hand the way congregations treat ones that act any differently than the “norm”. my heart went out to little jaden and yes i too believe he will use his critical thinking and get out of this cult one day. I hope he doesnt lose his family along with that but thats one of the cruel consequences of being a born in.
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 RC says:

 November 13, 2015 at 6:36 pm
 
Hi,
 Steven hassan mentioned in his book that generally cults dont recruit people who need special attention because they need people who can stand up to the grueling demands of cult life and it takes money , effort and time to assist these people. But how do the JW do this without any of the guys who recruit noticing ? I mean the guys who come on your doorstep wont some of them notice if the other guy was actively avoiding people with special needs.
Reply
 
 
 John Baptist says:

 November 13, 2015 at 7:44 pm
 
My job involes providing care and mentoring to those who are Autistic. One client I have had parents who were both involved with the religion. They no longer are and this individual I care for detests the time wasted in their involvement in this religion. People who have this condition think on a higher plain then we do and usually have high IQ levels. They see through all the indoctrination garbage and rightly so. Although lacking in social skill sets they sure make up for it in their intelligence.
 Some of the kindest most down to earth non judgemental people you will ever meet. I learn something new everyday being involved with their care.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 13, 2015 at 8:13 pm
 
Thank you for this excellent article, James. I’m so glad for you that you got out of the Org in time to raise your child in a healthy way.
Your points on this line especially grabbed me: “The friends in the congregation have helped me by doing whatever they need to do to help me stay on the road to life.”
What a horrifying message, to be delivered in such a positive sounding way. How ironic, that the ones thinking they are helping are really the ones guilty of doing the most harm. And what a total abandonment of rational thought by Jehovah’s Witnesses, to think a God of Love is ready to pounce on even challenged children if they can’t fulfill all of their obligations as JW’s.
Your point about autistic people often having a knack for critical thinking and logic was very interesting too. It’s eye-opening to realize that, in a congregation full of supposedly “normal” people, someone with a developmental disorder could very easily be the one who is most likely to see the flaws in the JW belief system. (I don’t mean that in a comical way.)
I’m embarrassed to have lived so many years before my mind finally introduced itself to me. But now, discovering real truth is a wonderful thing. Thanks for your contributions toward that, James. I wish you, your wife and son all the best.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 14, 2015 at 3:07 am
 
@jb. JB, I feel the same although I have been Faded for over 20 year snow the pain is still there in many ways from the abuse we all went through. Also some of my immediate family is still in and will not have a normal discussion and causes divisions etc. No freedom of speech or freedom of thought. I can see from this discussion this issue has brought up much pain and suffering many have gone through as JW’s past and present. I feel like I wasted my best years from 19-39 but I also learned a lot both good and bad during the process so I have to look at it from that point of view.I see and hear a lot of suffering from people reading this article from James and it brngs back bad memories but please remember all you good people as long as we are alive we can improve our situation and help others as well. Tie is also a healer and even if we are older now as some have stated we can still do good and help ourselves and others to see the truth and enjoy our lives. it isn’t always that easy but we need to start. We all have something in common her and we are all here to help in any way we can.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 14, 2015 at 1:07 pm
 
Well said, Holy Connoli. I appreciate your positive and pragmatic approach to post-JW life. I also faded in my late 30’s, and wish I had that same time span back that you mentioned. But, as that’s impossible, it’s best to just settle on the goal of not teaching or believing anything harmful anymore, and trying to muster up as much positivity as my worn-out brain will allow. I’m glad we have a place like this. It does wonders to have people in your life who can relate to such a uniquely bizarre life experience. May we all witness the collapse of the Org together, and soon.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 November 14, 2015 at 7:02 pm
 
Ajb. I still have part of my family in the WT ORg. It makes it difficult for us to talk with them. My wife is a true fanatic, She ius intelligent for sure but when it comes to THE wt she will not have a normal discussion. In fact we debate and argue all the time. 3 weeks ago she left me and much of it was over the WT and although we have been married 35 years she can justify it in her own mind bc she is a Pioneer and even though her ELDERS told her not to leave she says she wants her own space and to pioneer in peace? GO figure. So she moved out. A real good JW lol. She never worked just lived off of my investments and my income. Did not want to work bc the “END” is so near.You and I JB seem to be in the same age group. I am up in Northern California and lot’s of JW’s up here being “AWAKENED”. You will be OK JB. Try to open up and have different experiences and find other interests. We can never make up for the lost time but we can use the remaining time to make our life better and enjoy things we missed. What part of the country are you from?
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 JB Reezner says:

 November 15, 2015 at 11:11 am
 
I’m sorry to hear that about your wife, Holy Connoli. On second thought, it’s probably for the best, and you’re probably RELIEVED that it finally happened. Maybe there will be a little less contention and a little more peace in your life. I hope so.
That’s great to hear about the progress of the REAL truth in your area. I think this thing might go exponential at some point. The one active friend I’m able to talk to about these things is very disturbed by many of the bizarre things going on in the Org these days (but still determined to “hang in there” with them).
Thanks for your good advice. I’m a bit of a hermit, but I’ve made some normal-thinking friends online. You’re right, I’ll be okay.
I’m way over here in Florida. You have some years on me. I’m mid-40’s, and faded about 6 years ago. Don’t let that fool you, though. I have the general disposition of a 99-year-old curmudgeon (just not on here, usually).
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 Winston Smith says:

 November 15, 2015 at 1:32 pm
 
JB & Holy C:
 Not to get too far off topic, but I am in the same boat as both of you, just a bit younger than JB. I woke up in my mid to late 30’s and have been faded for about 3 years. My wife is still in the JW cult. I am waiting for the day when things finally blow and she leaves. We still have minor children at home so that makes it hard to think about.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:14 pm
 
You have my sympathy for your predicament, Winston. I’m glad you’re here. It’s a good place for support, and of course, all the articles here revealing one fumble after the other by the Org are GREAT for those of us needing to see it crumble. I hope one of their bizarre pronouncements catches your wife on the wrong day, and she see the cult for what it is. May that happen soon, my friend.

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 19, 2015 at 3:55 am
 
No way, JB Reezner. I must have missed that comment about your age. I just don’t think we have been talking as much as we were, which has nothing to do with anyone on here. I just have had to tend to other matters lately. And I do also appreciate all the other ones who regularly comment. If I named them all I would probably leave someone out and I don’t want to do that. It is so good to know that so many are waking up due to sites like this one.

 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:26 pm
 
JB, now I know your age. You just gave yourself away. Ha ha. Trying not to sound too silly (everyone is a bit wary after the PB incident) but I caught you out. I thought you were in my vintage but you are not. Funny how we perceive people differently to how they really are. I guess it is because of the anonymity of the internet which creates a screen. Anyway, any age your comments are appreciated.
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 JB Reezner says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:55 pm
 
Meredith, I’m so glad to hear from you. I was afraid a couple of different things recently might have put a wrinkle between us. You, Ruthlee, Tara and others mean a lot to me (whether y’all like it or not).
Now if you’ll remember, I plainly stated to Grace awhile back that I was in my forties, but you came in and REFUSED to believe it, lol.
It can be hard to guess people’s ages sometimes, but I would never consciously mislead anybody here about anything. I’m a fairly straightforward dude. (But I know you’re just poking fun at me a little.)

 
 
 Tara says:

 November 15, 2015 at 10:01 pm
 
Aw just read these through and I’m choked. I’m above the line in BC. Still in my 40’s… just (winces). Bit off topic but no one is reading previous topics… anyways I went to the ‘talk’ today – yawn… but prior to it an elder approached me and asked for my time… nope, had none to report. Then he told me an odd thing. said he had been to another meeting recently and that a local needs mentioned how people were being ‘laid off’. I was puzzled and asked what he meant. He said the local needs was on the brothers in Bethel being kicked out and having to rely on congregations to pick up the pieces. I was sort of taken back that he mentioned this but he went on to say about building work being stopped and how it all seemed odd to him. It was a really strange conversation so I just said yeah I had heard that bethelites were finding it hard going now because they had no money to fall back on and no pensions…. I mentioned James 2:16 about going in peace and keeping warm and well fed… of what use is it and he totally agreed. It was an odd conversation to say the least.
 You mean a lot to me to JB :) all of you do.

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 15, 2015 at 11:05 pm
 
That is very interesting behavior from that elder, Tara. I hope he is starting to question things, but I wouldn’t let on too much about what you know (and especially, how you know it). Witnesses can question the Org one day, and then do a complete reversal the next.
The friend I sometimes mention here does that. It’s one of the strangest things I’ve ever seen. I’ll feel like we’ve made real progress, but then, the next time we talk, he’s ready to ride the JW chariot until the wheels fall off. But I know you’re being careful with how much you divulge.
And thanks for that last bit. I was very glad to hear it :)

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Andrew says:

 November 13, 2015 at 9:49 pm
 
Did anyone else notice the words and sentences the little boy was using was the exact language of not only an adult but also the same people that write all the publications? That is not how a young boy talks, especially one with autism. His wording was so perfectLy fitting what the GB’s message I though it was just a domonstration not a real life experience. So what you have is a poor autistic boy reading a script provided by the leaders of the cult telling everyone how the boy feels.
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 The way says:

 November 13, 2015 at 10:25 pm
 
Very interesting and well written article. I could related to this article, as my children were rarely included in social events in the congregation. They always felt left out. No love there.
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 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 14, 2015 at 3:15 am
 
An all too familiar story. I have a son with Tourette’s syndrome. He’s high functioning, for a while we thought he might be autistic. When we finally got a diagnosis it was treated like a real stigma in the congregation. Even more so when we had to take turns to miss the evening meeting because his symptoms would get worse at night after a long day at school when he was tired. To say nobody understood or cared is an understatement.
And it’s not like this was the first time, no sir. He was diagnosed with a serious congenital heart condition in the womb and given a 50/50 chance of surviving birth. When we broke the news to our “brothers and sisters” I felt the congregation take a big step back, in anticipation of an impending disaster. He survived birth, but guess how many witnesses visited us at the hospital that week? The same as the amount of shepherding calls we got – zero.
18 months later he had open heart surgery, a day long operation which successfully fixed his heart condition. He spent a week in ICU and we spent the week by his side. Guess how many visits we got that week? Yep – zero. Oh no, wait, the hospital chaplain dropped in and shared some comforting scriptures. I was an MS at the time and couldn’t help wonder where out shepherds were, not to mention our brothers and sisters. As we came into “the truth” from “the world” we had no family support; we were well and truly on our own. I was appointed as an elder shortly after, but in truth I never really got over that experience and we are well and truly out now.
I’m happy to say that out child is a lot happier now, doing well at school, with friends who genuinely love him (unlike the kids at the Kingdom Hall who would avoid him like the plague.) And we are all the happier for spending our time with people and institutions who truly care and understand, rather than judge and condemn.
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 Grace says:

 November 14, 2015 at 2:15 pm
 
Eric,
What a terrible situation to be in. The only good thing that came out of it is that it set you free from this hypocritical religion. The lack of love & interest in others was what initially caused me to take a step back & look at the big picture. I’m happy for you that you are in a good place now.
Reply
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 14, 2015 at 2:53 pm
 
Thank you Grace. Yes, out of many difficult trials come positives too sometimes. I guess we learn something from everything. This experience, along with my experience as an elder which was even more traumatic (that’s another story – mostly a result of me speaking out against the society’s policy on child abuse), forced my eyes wide open, so I’m actually grateful for them in the end. I often joke with my wife that I walked away from that position a broken man – partly because I was diagnosed with PTSD and unable to work or even function some days, but mostly because I broke free from the cult, and took my family with me. We’re all in a much better place now, and I am finding healing thanks to sites like this and reading very everybody’s comments and experiences. I hope you’re in a good place too Grace. :)
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 14, 2015 at 4:21 am
 
James I need to process all the comments I have a lot to say in this subject and it is ALL scathing .I will be respectful to the other posters but i WILL NOT be holding anything back when it comes to the way my family have been treated with our autistic children. Our story needs a book in all honesty but some incidences of nasty unchristian behaviour i will post for all the world to read watch this space! However team i will understand if you block my comments because i am beyond angry with those jws and this is a pet subject bye for now reguards to all,simmering to boiling point ruthless/ruthlee
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 15, 2015 at 4:08 pm
 
Ruthlee, share what you need to share when you’re ready. I’m sure many of us here are very interested in reading it. We love you. (And I’m an *EX*jw, so I really do mean that.)
Reply
 
 
 
 Alex Brito says:

 November 14, 2015 at 9:28 am
 
Image I edited … see …
http://i.imgur.com/zMAFEWC.jpg
http://imgur.com/zMAFEWC
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 Robert67 says:

 November 14, 2015 at 9:56 am
 
Yup, not too original of them. Love how they feel the need for a class picture over an image of their empire.
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 Robert67 says:

 November 14, 2015 at 10:01 am
 
They are in because they are ignorant of the never ending stream of lies, false prophecies, cover ups and witch hunts on truth exposers.
 They are unaware that even the Goberning Body have admitted in court that they are just men who appoint themselves through a vote and are not the sole voice for God on Earth.
 They are unaware of all of these things because they’ve never read their Bibles and compared what their being told to do, with what the Bible actually says.
 Time for you to visit http://www.jwfacts.com
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 14, 2015 at 1:21 pm
 
True confessions of a JW childhood star:
During my mid-teens I was asked to do a part on a convention program. I was given the questions that would be asked by the brother handling the part. He told me to prepare my answers to the questions.
On providing my answers to the brother, he told me that my answers were too long for the amount of time that would be alloted so I should shorten my responses. This I did. On presenting the brother with my shortened responses he started to ask the questions in a different way to see if he could get me to express myself differently. After a few tweaks here and there, he finally resorted to giving me the answers which were already prepared by the WT and told me that this is what my answers are expected to be.
Like you I was congratulated for something that was not my own story but a script given to me to read by the WT because that was what they wanted the audience to hear.
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 dee says:

 November 14, 2015 at 1:41 pm
 
My comment ended up in the wrong place – it was intended as a reply to ‘Ready4toFade’s’ comment above.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 14, 2015 at 2:07 pm
 
Brother: Dee, how do you feel about Jehovah’s loving gift of allowing you to share in the field ministry?
Dee: Well, at first, it took some getting used to. I’m not a naturally outspoken person, so it was a bit of a challenge to muster up the courage to talk to people about things that could potentially be offensive to them. Plus, I had to adjust my priorities. There were some things I really enjoyed doing on the weekends, but I had to remind myself that this lifesaving work is more important than anything else.
Brother: Try again, Dee.
Dee: Eh, I mean, even though I was a little nervous sometimes, I eventually got used to going out in service. And though there were other things I enjoyed doing, I learned to prioritize my time so that I could still do those things once in awhile, while also having a full share in the ministry.
Brother: Nope.
Dee: I’ve really learned to enjoy field service. And I am careful to strike a proper balance between my ministry and other activities.
Brother: Oh for Pete’s sake. Here… [hands paper to Dee]
Dee: NOTHING makes me happier than FIELD SERVICE! When I’m stuck HAVING to do something else, all I can think about is how much I WISH I WAS OUT SPREADING THE GOOD NEWS!!
Brother: Well done, Dee. Right from the heart– just the way we wanted it.
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 Doc Obvious says:

 November 14, 2015 at 3:33 pm
 
Watchtower’s scripted response is a sign of control. Everything about this religion is scripted. Nothing heart felt. Nothing pure. They think people with an education beyond the high school years is not being humble. People are taught to think on their own two feet. I really appreciate your experience. It shows that Watchtower cannot trust their own people.
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 dee says:

 November 14, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
@JB
Thanks for the laugh JB, you couldn’t have said it better ☺
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 JB Reezner says:

 November 14, 2015 at 5:13 pm
 
I appreciated your comment, Dee. It perfectly illustrates that element of illusion required to keep people in the Org believing they have the Truth. Even parts that SEEM like they’re real-world experiences can really just be the usual sly indoctrination. Yuck.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 15, 2015 at 3:33 pm
 
Dee: “And I love getting the door slammed in my face and people getting into their car and driving away when they see us coming. It just makes me feel so good.”
Reply
 
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 November 15, 2015 at 4:26 pm
 
Thanks Dee, your story makes me feel slightly less guilty for my past sins, however coerced they may have been. It makes you question it all, including those scores of yearbook experiences, including the more fantastic ones coming out of war-torn areas where Witnesses are under ban. I know Cedars has shed new light for me regarding Rutherford’s actions in dealing with the Nazis.
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 Doc Obvious says:

 November 14, 2015 at 3:24 pm
 
Neurological disorders are not watchtower’s expertise. One of my family members had a eating disorder and it was the hardest disease to ever hit my family. No one in the congregation understood or empathized with my family. It was like my family had Leprosy. No one wanted to get close to my family in the Jehovah’s Witness religion. My mother would ask for some assistance from the elders but they would not even bother with my parents. The congregation and the Watchtower organization was of no help at all. The religion was of no comfort and definitely not a hiding place from the wind.
I cannot imagine the struggles this family is going through with their son having autism. The past comments suggest that one kingdom hall was not showing neighborly love to this family with their son. Therefore, this family had to move to another kingdom hall. How sad. Jesus cannot be thrilled by that clear oversight on Watchtower’s part.
Jesus Christ went to those who were struggling. Jesus took care of people who had disorders. Jesus had love for neighbor. Watchtower likes to point that Jesus is our model to follow. However, the reality is that the slave does not care.
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 memoriesoflost says:

 November 14, 2015 at 7:51 pm
 
I felt compelled to leave a comment- I’ve been out for about six years now, but little Jaden’s story reminds me of the autistic children in my past congregation. The only reason they were not ostracized completely? Their parents dictated every thought, every movement, everything, and all in accordance to ‘Jehovah’. They were, in appearance and superficially, perfect little witnesses. Until the loud noises made them cry, or until the other witness kids didn’t want to invite them to our ‘cool’ kid parties. I often wonder what happened to those kids. My brother is an Aspie, and he has always hated the JW religion, he saw right through them. I hope someday this organization falls, they’ve destroyed too many lives.
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 Kat says:

 November 14, 2015 at 8:44 pm
 
It is very sad the segregation of these precious little ones.
Not all JW are like this though, I think there are some that are loving and kind these ones are usually the so called misfits in the congregation anyway, others it is rare that are part of the elite in the congregations soon just go along with the party line.
The organization stifles any natural affection with its status and rules of what one must do to be accepted. The most loving of JW I have found are those that are not regarded as being spiritual strong because of not meeting up to the GB forever work to show you are most valued in Gods eyes.
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 The Circus Overseer says:

 November 15, 2015 at 4:21 am
 
Great to see that he is paying attention to Tony Morris’ regulations on trousers.
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 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 3:40 pm
 
priceless!
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 Donna says:

 November 15, 2015 at 8:18 am
 
There have been many high functioning autistic children nearly beat to death outside the door of the KH for fidgeting drawing on the Watchtower. It make me so mad that I allowed my ex-husband elder beat my children. Now the GV testifies under oath “we don’t accept corporal punishment for children” when asked at Austrialian Royal Commission. He thoroughly explain the rod of discipline was figurative. JW’s certainly don’t believe in striking children. Permanent post trauma life.
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 Alexandria R says:

 November 15, 2015 at 1:52 pm
 
After reading everyone’s comments today I began to reflect. I have two nieces who had tubaligations because the end is near. I remember at an assembly my nieces and their husbands moved to different seats because a child and her parents sat in the row in front of them. That was a good behaving child without a problem. My complaint is about the way the organization encourages people to treat its own members. A child who doesn’t understand the full consequences gets baptized at age 13 and then loses everyone through emotional black mail. The society needs to not interfere and stay out of a parent and child’s relationship. I don’t like it disfellowshipping is used as emotional black mail weather a child is mentally handicapped or not.
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 Doc Obvious says:

 November 16, 2015 at 9:31 am
 
The Kingdom Hall I attend just had a brother return from Bethel, he was “reassigned”. I feel really bad for these young brothers who have been dealt with this Watchtower fiasco. They need much encouragement from their family and close friends. Watchtower states that they have been “reassigned”. On planet Earth, we call it a layoff. The Watchtower wants them to go back to pioneering with no pay. The Bethel-minions have come back home and now have an opportunity to make decisions that benefit themselves and not an organization wanting free labor.
Brothers who are returning from Bethel. We appreciate your sacrifice for the years of service. It is now time to re-assess your goals. Take personality tests and find out what you excel at job wise. This notion of we will put you where we want is now gone. It is in the past. Your next chapter of life has begun. Learn a skill that is actually marketable. Construction is not a strong skill in today’s modern world. The job growth rate for construction careers is not as strong as other more advanced careers are. Time for you to go to community colleges and technical schools for a much better opportunity. Now is not the time to be reassigned. Or, be used in another free labor campaign for Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It is over with Watchtower. Their goals are short-lived in this world. Now you need to be in control of your life.
As you can see the word, “reassigned”, has a more positive connotation than the word “layoff”. Layoff has a negative connotation and does not fit in with the Smurf ideology (play the Smurf la-la song) at Watchtower. The Shiny Happy People psychology and their grape Kool-Aid Concoctions are starting to wear off and people are starting to realize what the reality of Watchtower really is.
Ex-Bethelites, do not become a Watchtower minion. Be an individual who can think and move forward.
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 Tara says:

 November 16, 2015 at 2:36 pm
 
Ok Doc. this is spooky because someone spoke to me yesterday at the hall about being ‘laid off’. Do I know you? If you snitch on me I know where you live lol.
Reply
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 16, 2015 at 5:37 pm
 
Good advice Doc. Take an assessment to help determine a career path, get the education and the skills. Couldn’t agree more. Regards
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 2:44 pm
 
START. When I watched the broadcast it was on the recommendation of a piosneer (patronising dried up twig no kids and knows it all) Like other commentors i felt depressed after the manipulation play. Can I say i’m SCREAMING inside with guilt because i’m one of those sisters who put her children through hell and indoctrination because my husband is witness royalty and the blue eyed boy of the cong. I woke up goddammit and the future is so bleak because one of my children is at that age where they don’t fit anywhere the schoolkids are marginally better than the holydubs. The other kid quite sociable so i invite all the worldly friends to bridge the gap.The problem with my firstborn is that i drummed in no worldly friends but the witness kids shun my child so this child really has no one but another autistic fringe jw who is 20yrs older .WHAT THE HELL HAVE I DONE AND WHAT THE HELL DO I DO?.Sometimes i feel so sad and broken and even the grandparents shun my kids because they are not up to standard (Husbands family).I have so many incidences in the kh out of it, scandals at school with other jw kids. all adds to the confusion. Like so many here iv’e put up with the doctrinal crap, the social stigma, and the nonsense of cult thinking. But the way we are treated with our damaged goods kids really is the last straw. One sister actually said we were given the rubbish! So where do you put the rubbish in the trash can outside. IF I ever were to question the existence of a loving god it would be because of the treatment of disabled people in the congs .The perfect witness in their spiritual paradise does not want reminding that real people have real situations in life that are hard to deal with and don’t go away. I spent nearly20 yrs in one cong and there was not one scrap of compassion there ,not an iota of love for my children. So when i meet my maker i want to know why, what actually went wrong? Love does not identify jehovahs witnessess never has done and never will. Some of them are hateful beings and if they get their comeuppance it will not be too soon.There are individuals that i hate so much i shake with hatred all because of vicious things said to my childrens faces. Some of you know i’m a suicide survivor and IF IF IF i had not had my wonderful beautiful kids , I would not be commenting here. I have too many incidences of bad behaviour to recount but heres one . I was nursing my toddler when another sis came in the room and beat her child continuosly over the head with the bible to shut it up it was colloquially known as the thocratical thump! Oh MY God there are some shameful abusers in this rotten religion. The sins are up to heaven. sorry I’m ranting a bit but i am in pain and remorse for dragging my poor children to all these horrid meetings and putting the fear of god into them. Ruthless/ruthlee. note to JBREEZNER thanks for you faith in me bro a kind word is so nice thanks for listening folks rl
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 Caroline says:

 November 16, 2015 at 4:54 pm
 
ruthlee, I also have so many regrets about how I allowed my kids to be brought up in the JW religion.
I remember so many kids that my kids went to school with, wanted to be friends with my kids but because they were “worldly”, my kids were never allowed to do anything with them and I could never allow them to come over to our house. The moms would ask if my kids could come over and I would always have to make up excuses like they were sick or something else because I didn’t have the heart to tell those moms that their kids just weren’t good enough association for my kids because they weren’t of our religion. The kids at the Kingdom Hall, that were the same age as my kids, thought they were too good for my kids.
My husband quit being an elder when they were young and the way it happened, the elder that announced he was quitting, made it look like he had been removed and so from then on, our kids were treated very differently and basically lost all the fake friends they had before that. It about killed me the way our kids were treated after that. When my husband was an elder, he had the Watchtower study and when that elder made the announcement like he did, he said at the same time that the book study wasn’t going to be at our house either and then when my husband raised his hand at the Watchtower study, the conductor refused to call on him. Then we went to another hall 45 miles away for three years and then came back here. By that time all the kids had gone their separate ways and my kids were left basically on their own. The nicest kids to my kids actually are not Witnesses anymore. The ones that stayed in are the most arrogant. Two of my kids are still strong in the religion and I wished with all my heart that they weren’t.
I don’t know how any kid can grow up “normal” in the Organization and be able to normally socialize with “worldly” people and if they want to get a job, they need to be normal.
Kids who grow up in the “truth” who do get along in the “world” when they grow up, learn to put on an “act” of humility but deep down, they think they are far superior than anybody they either work with or meet, that is if they bought into the brainwashing, hook, line and sinker.
If all the people around them that they work with or go to school with, knew the true attitude of JW children and adults towards “worldly” people, I don’t think they would like them very much.
When it comes to my old congregation, there are precious few that I would label as actually humble.
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 Tara says:

 November 16, 2015 at 5:10 pm
 
My son once told me that I had destroyed his childhood because of ‘that damned religion of yours’. My heart broke in two. Now my son is helping me escape by offering me a refuge. He told me how proud he is of me for waking up. My daughter just doesn’t want to loose her friends… I really don’t think she believes in any of the clap trap that comes out of the ‘tower’ but she does have a love for God in her own way although admits she never really prays. Now I need to get my oldest grandchild out though she tells me she hates the meetings (she lives with her mother who married a non witness so they have double standards and my granddaughter is so confused). My heart goes out to all you parents and grandparents but waking up is the best thing we can do for our children. Hopefully they will see it too.
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 From Mom says:

 November 16, 2015 at 6:26 pm
 
Ruthless Ruthlee, You don’t sound negative. It’s the cringing and recoiling that made you feel like you wanted to die. Every time I hear them say ‘Jehovah says this’ and ‘Jehovah says that’ I cringe and recoil. Many of us experience that. It’s good for us to hear about experiences like yours. It shows everyone we’re not alone. You’re awakened and you’re being realistic. They use guilt as manipulation. The guilt trips the organization and it’s people put regular people through causes people to want to die. JWs don’t act lovingly the way their literature and videos say. That’s all propaganda. The last time I went to a meeting a sister I was sitting next to started fussing at me before the meeting started because she hadn’t seen me out in service in a long time. While she was fussing the brother up on the platform started talking. I was embarrassed so I looked behind us and saw a sister listening to the fussing that sister was doing, The sister that was listening to all the fussing fluttered her eyelashes at me as I looked at her out of insincerity. They are the most insincere and judgemental people I know. I was so frustrated I felt like I wished I was dead. That feeling comes from frustration. The longer I stay away from them the clearer my mind gets. When I returned to visit the meeting sounded and felt dumb. I feel people have to dumb down to be in that religion. The longer I stay away the harder it is to be around the indoctrination. Ruthlee THANK YOU for sharing your experience.
Reply
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 16, 2015 at 10:08 pm
 
Ruthlee, your account is absolutely heartbreaking. The fact that it is an ongoing situation, with no easy solution, makes it even more agonizingly difficult. My honest reaction, even as only someone who merely READ your account, is anger, sadness, confusion and frustration– sincerely. And as I have this reaction, I realize that what I’m feeling, as significant as it is, can’t even be one thousandth of the intensity of these emotions that you feel every single day.
You’re right– when they hurt children, it should be the last straw. I don’t know all of the complexities of your situation, but now that you know the REAL truth, your job is to dismantle the indoctrination your kids have been victims of (by the Org) anyway you can, to whatever extent that you can. I don’t mean to say that thoughtlessly. You know your own situation. If plainly stating to your kids (or anyone else in your family) that the Org is a cult would have catastrophic effects, then that’s not the way to go. But if you have little opportunities to safely counteract misconceptions in your kids’ minds by saying subtle things here and there, then by all means, do that.
You’ve realized that the Org doesn’t have the truth. Everyone on this site wishes we would’ve figured that out a LONG time ago. But your kids still have their entire lives ahead of them. School is oftentimes a miserable experience for kids in all sorts of situations. Although it’s agonizing to see a child have a hard time there, the good thing about it is that it’s only temporary.
The Organization really is in a downward spiral. It really is true that more and more people are seeing the grotesque flaws in the teachings of this cult. Your children have the advantage of having a mother who has woken up. All they have to do is be caught on the wrong day by one of the Org’s profane pronouncements, genuinely question or disagree with it, and you will be right there to guide them to the real truth. With every passing day, and with every bizarre misstep by the Org, there is an increasingly good chance that will happen.
You are in a very important position in their lives. I know I can’t talk you out of feeling guilty– no one can. But the reality of the matter will always be that they are victims of the disgusting, twisted doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses cult. They are NOT victims of YOU.
Everything you have done for them, right or wrong, you did with loving and sincere motives. Everything you will do for them in their future will be with those same sincere motives. I can tell from the intense pain evident in your comment that you are a LOVING mother. All you can do now, is keep being a good, loving mother with the benefit of your corrected view of life and the world around you.
Please know that I already expect that you are doing everything good you possibly can for your kids. But what I offer is from the heart, and hopefully helpful in some small way– even if only taken as moral support. I appreciate you sharing this with us, and we’ll be here when you want to share more. You are truly among friends here, Ruthlee. And of course the same goes for Caroline and Tara and others in our little family here. I’m dropping a 50 megaton bomb of SINCERE love on y’all. So just deal with that.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 16, 2015 at 11:15 pm
 
Hey JB,
 Mind you get another cult started with all that love bombing!☺
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 17, 2015 at 9:49 am
 
*the members of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are having so much fun wearing colanders on their heads that I think the members of our new cult should wear something on their heads too LOL!!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 17, 2015 at 8:25 am
 
Dee, absolutely not. Oh, okay. On second thought, let’s do it. We can call it the Cult of Getting the Hell Out of the JW Org.
Commandment 1: Get the HELL OUT of the JW Org (as soon as it becomes reasonably possible for you, without having catastrophic effects in your life).
Commandement 2: Find a healthy and harmless path to happiness that works for you.
That’s it. Fulfill those obligations, and you’re done*.
*There will be some upcoming revelations regarding the Hale-Bopp comet that may require a “small” act of devotion, but it’s nothing to be worried about.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 17, 2015 at 9:54 am
 
*the members of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are having so much fun wearing colanders on their heads that I think that the members of our new cult should wear something on their heads too LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 17, 2015 at 9:59 pm
 
Sorry to leave you hanging, Dee. I’ve been moving this week. And everything is going wrong (as it always does when you move). Things should be getting back to normal soon. I hope…

 
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 17, 2015 at 10:44 pm
 
Oh I’ve been love bombed – I like it…. All you need is love…. na na na na..all you need is love, love. Sorry, been on the Egg Nogg.
JB is totally correct Ruthlee, his words on it not being your fault (our fault) but the borg. is true. We are victims just as much as our children are… now we help them to escape.
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 19, 2015 at 4:25 am
 
Oh ruthlee, we feel your pain. If the cruelty is done to us, we get over it, but when the cruelty is directed at our kids it’s just too much. The sense of guilt can be overwhelming. I know because I am full of it too. It’s the guilt of dragging our children through this painful journey of ‘the truth’. What a lie that our children would be treated with love. Ha, that was the biggest lie of the lot.
Anyway, ruthlee, keep praying, and leave if you can in your own time. And please don’t think about suicide anymore. It is not a solution for you, please believe that. We would care very much if you were to be contemplating this, so please get it out of your mind. Your family are too important for you to leave them. Girl, stay strong. You need to be if you have to leave the Watchtower. Love your kids and stuff all these hypocrites. Be positive and try and work something out for yourself. Don’t give into hopelessness. It is nowhere. Love yourself embrace a life without the Watchtower. Live your dreams and have a sleep in for a change and try and stay calm. Remember stay strong.
Reply
 
 
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 November 16, 2015 at 5:42 pm
 
My husband and I brought up 4 children as jws. My younger 2 are both in the autistic spectrum. My older 2 don’t have Asd and are both reg pios and married to jws.
 We were always regarded as bad associates because our 2 younger kids were considered ‘out of control’ and lacking discipline. Our older s and d were generally well behaved during meetings because they knew they’d be taken into another room and smacked if they fidgeted too much. My Asd boys couldn’t be treated that way. I hated taking any of my kids out and disciplining them during meetings and used to consider meeting attendance more like an exercise in obedience than an opportunity to partake of spiritual food. I started to notice that if my kids made a noise i’d get people glaring at me or rolling their eyes but if the grandchildren of Elders played up they’d get sympathetic smiles and offers of help.
 I left the religion 4 years ago and took my younger 2 with me. They are 17 and 20 yrs old now. It was the best thing I ever did for them ( and for myself!)
 When you are a parent to a child with special needs, everything is harder. School is hard- really hard! You have to fight for everything every day. Getting help from Drs, specialists etc trying to get financial help from govt etc it all takes its toll on you physically and emotionally. Support is so hard to get and non existent in congregation. You blame yourself that you have no friends. You try to excuse the lack of love from cong as fear of the Unknown. But, it’s inexcusable. My 20 yr old son was teased and called ‘gay’ for years by his jw peers- some boys with Aspergers are quite effeminate. In fact, it was when I discovered that he actually is gay that I left the religion. The thought that what he is means he would die at Armageddon was too much. I figured if he was going to die there was no way I’d let him do it alone! I’m so proud of him.
 My 17 yr old hated the meetings too. He has ADHD and Asd. I would talk to him whilst we were out in the car. We would listen to his favourite music and look at passers by, then discuss how unlikely it would be that a God of love could just destroy everybody and leave only jws alive!
 It’s mad that my older 2 think that raising them as jws helped ‘save’ them and my younger 2 think that getting them away from the religion set them free!!
 In case you’re wondering, my husband returned to the religion a couple of years ago. He doesn’t ever go out on ministry and his meeting attendance is rubbish so as far as I’m concerned there’s hope for him yet!
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 19, 2015 at 4:10 am
 
Boy, you really had your hands full. I thought it was bad enough bringing my children up and they were normal, which was bad enough believe me, but I cannot imagine dealing with special needs. Almost impossible and it would have been impossible to please the elders. You have all my sympathy believe me.
You mentioned the cruelty to your son from the other Witness children and I had a bad memory came back. There was a function on in a brother’s factory where the congregation was invited. We had just started attending the meetings. I had been told that the Witness children would be lovely and would take care of our children. I remember looking over and the three girls who were peers of our daughter stole her shoe and were running away with it throwing it to each other. Our daughter tried to chase them to get it back and started crying. I thought it was one of the cruelest tricks I had ever seen and it made me sick at the time and it was being played out on my own flesh and blood. I still get upset when I remember it. I so wish I had not got involved with this crappy religion. So the cruelty was not just at kids with special needs. It was pretty much directed at anyone who was different.
Reply
 
 
 
 Garrett says:

 November 16, 2015 at 5:58 pm
 
Thank you for your hard work on this article James. We so much
 appreciate the time and care you put into writing for all our benefit.
Reply
 
 
 eyes opened says:

 November 16, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 
Hi Ruthlee, I am so sorry for the pain you and your children are suffering. I can’t even pretend to have any real wisdom on the matter. I don’t know the ages of your children but I assume they are still at home. One thing we did as parents was tried to instill as much self-confidence in our children as we could. We wanted them to feel good about who they were as individuals and not in comparison with anyone else. I don’t doubt you are already doing that, just keep it up. Feel good about who you are as a loving parent. This suffering is the result of nasty people whose thoughts and opinions just don’t matter. Of course that doesn’t make the pain any less when they’re in your children’s faces. You may have to get tough mama. If someone got all up in my child’s face, they would only do it once. Perhaps you have already been mama bear…good for you. I’m sorry I couldn’t come up with anything profound but just know we’re with you. Regards
Reply
 
 

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← The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead” →
 
The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism?
avatar 
Posted on November 13, 2015

Jaden - a boy with autism being raised as a JW, as featured in the October JW Broadcasting episode
Jaden – a boy with autism being raised as a JW, as featured in the October JW Broadcasting episode

When I became a father I was so excited about raising a child. I eagerly awaited the arrival of my son and when he joined our family I immediately fell in love all over again. It was an amazing journey raising him through infancy and early childhood.
When he was a toddler I noticed there was something extremely different about him, but I could not put my finger on it. It was his preschool teacher that helped me understand what was happening. She’d observed what appeared to her as “sensory processing” problems.
The environment of a structured preschool socially overwhelmed him. He would not interact with the other children and he was always found doing his own thing away from others. He was kind of trapped inside his own little world.
Social situations overstimulated him to the point where he’d have to sooth himself with various hand motions in front of his face. Slowly, over time, he joined the group and preschool became a therapy for him in all kinds of ways that he was developmentally behind with.
My wife and I decided to have him checked and what we got back was the diagnoses of “high functioning Autism.” Autism can be an extremely frightening word for a parent, and the term hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew something was wrong, so part of me was relieved that we now had a direction to go in and didn’t have to guess anymore.
I’m very glad that my family were not Jehovah’s Witnesses through that part of my life. I cannot imagine trying to get to meetings, stay at meetings and go out in regular field service while having a child with special needs. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to take him to stadiums full of 10,000 people where they all clap simultaneously to someone speaking on a loud PA.
That, I can safely say, would be absolute hell.
Apparently, that’s exactly what families are doing according to the October 2015 JW Broadcasting episode (53:45). It features a testimony given by a young boy who happens to have the same diagnosis as my son.
Not the whole picture
The video is well produced and directed, and has a very effective soundtrack. The boy tells the story about how being a Jehovah’s Witnesses is “easy,” but didn’t use to be. At first being Autistic was extremely difficult, both for him and his parents, but over time things got better and he ended up loving his life as a Jehovah’s Witness.
I must admit the boy seems genuinely content with his life, but the producers of the film are not telling you the whole story. The boy recalls that, at first, the congregation didn’t understand his issues, but then he goes on to say:

“The friends in the congregation have helped me by doing whatever they need to do to help me stay on the road to life.”
When you read the above statement just as words on a screen, away from the rich production, they come across totally differently. In the video there are light chimes and a spirited piano melody playing in the background. Strip away all that, and it’s easier to see the true state of affairs.
His congregation believes in a scenario where their deity would brutally execute an Autistic boy for not being a Jehovah’s’ Witness. That’s why they are helping him, because they see him as being in grave danger.
This amounts to phobia indoctrination, and is tantamount to coercion by way of emotional control. In other words, they are using the fear of an imminent and painful death to retain his membership in their religion.
The very next scene shows the boy and his mother at a desk with one of the JW.org comic strips laid out next to a self-typed report. This really shows that the comics are not mere leisure activities, but are actually study tools for the young Witness children.
These comics sometimes cover stories in the Bible with extremely graphic content, such as their comic on the story of Lot’s wife and her divine execution. The pictures they use to depict her death are extremely graphic and intense.
Instead of being simple fables, these stories are considered to be historical accounts that are taken extremely seriously. No doubt the Autistic boy in the film has studied these images, and is deeply affected by them.
Using fear in this manner is no way to raise any child, let alone one with special needs.
Only a matter of time
Even though the video really does have this depressing feel to it, there is a silver lining to the story. No matter how hard the Watchtower tries to control the information their membership takes in, they can’t control it all. Because of the time that this Autistic boy lives in, he will no doubt one day encounter the other side of the story. He will find his way to the ex-JW’s.
High functioning Autistic people are often highly logical and have a knack for critical thinking. There is one thing that the organization is lacking severely: logic. Their doctrines don’t make sense, and as this child grows up he will undoubtedly see this.
There are so many plot holes in the story that the Watchtower tells about itself. There are so many questions they leave unanswered or half-answered. Once this boy encounters the truth about the “Truth,” it will all likely start to click for him, and he will leave. Unfortunately, as ex-JW’s know, this experience doesn’t come without a price, and is never easy.
Better options
If you are a parent with an Autistic child, and you are a Jehovah’s Witness or considering joining, I urge you to proceed with extreme caution. Watchtower is an organization with a history of exploiting children for their own gain. And judging by this new video, they are not above targeting children with special needs and their families.
In my experience there is a lot of support available for families who are caring for children with special needs. There are a lot of people out there who want to help, and don’t employ undue influence, like group shunning or phobia indoctrination.
One of the most important things you can do is create a strong support system of people who will be with you through the good times and the bad. The worst thing you could do is surround yourself with people who love conditionally, impair critical thinking and are constantly obsessing over the end of the world.
 
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← The Friday Column: Doctrine and loyalty is paramount to the Governing Body, whatever the cost
The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead” →
 
129 Responses to The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism?

← Older Comments
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 16, 2015 at 6:30 pm
 
These comments are an eye opener. We have so much in common.
Reply
 
 
 Pat says:

 November 16, 2015 at 7:39 pm
 
Loved this article. I had a child who had learning difficulties which made reading a real chore for him. He was excluded from many things because of this as he was late joining the ministry school and therefore considered spiritually weak and not one to associate with. Fortunately, by age 16 he refused to attend meetings. Anyone ‘different’ is always given a hard time, no question about it, especially when they don’t have a physical disability and appear ‘normal’ to the congregation.
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 17, 2015 at 4:58 am
 
Oh dear friends. Now the tears are really flowing.Thank you all for the love and practical support you give and the sincere love you share ,words are not really enough. We are all in the same boat . Isn’t amazing how many of us have these dear children and have been beaten for it by the judges called jws. On good days i can knock the house down and have energy to take on the world but on the bleak days its a bit tougher i’m sure you understand. It seems to me we are awaiting relief from the prison tower, may it fall soon. I heard a quote today i thought interesting.”you had my blood now i’m after your money” I think i’m all about exposing the hypocrisy and callous attitude genuine jdubs have as opposed to ordinary folks have, and the ones that got away. Yes i do have to toughen up it’s true. Ive tried to be fairminded and give the borg credit where credit is due and taken the tack that we were protected to a certain degree from the outside world and the extreme end of wordly influence.Of course that reasoning is complete eyewash because the reward for that protection is shunning our children, contradictory rulings and actually no spiritual content to our lives. My kids are the smart end of ASD which does mean thay have worked out the poo spew form what is true but they are still young and need friends and to make some mistakes all not allowed of course! They are both of unbaptised publisher age and i can get down on my knees and thank God im dithering on this sooooo much. Have been pressured to comply but not lifting a finger on that score so its up to my husband who is too busy with the lame ducks in his care. So in a tiny way i’m keeping them from making progress so they won’t ever be dfd. Is that not crazy preemptive reasoning? Only a cult could produce such false thinking. I remember when i was quite ill and my first was young and i said to husband if i die you need someone to take over the role of mum to my kid ,he said that the cong would help and i said even then you must be joking no one not no one would lift a finger i saw it even then but didnt have my eyes open. I guarentee all of you GB types reading this your little party followers would rather spend 10hours knocking empty doors exercising their tongues in gossip than help a poor sister in dire straits with a special needs kid. May YOUR god punish you for the punishment you put us through. We have this growing community that have been through fire and are not afraid to let others know the maltreatment that is standard to those who don’t fit the WASP profile. Nasty wasps all flying round the sickly honey.ruthless/ruthlee.
Reply
 
 Just the facts says:

 November 17, 2015 at 5:09 am
 
Here is a short video that exemplifies the wall we all eventually hit when comparing the Watchtower teachings with the Bible. I can imagine these poor children who cannot ignore logic, what they must go through.


Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 17, 2015 at 6:08 am
 
@Just the Facts, what a powerful film and yes that is what it is like for children trying to reason with their parents and the Watchtower “truths” with anyone who is completely indoctrinated.
That is why the Watchtower spends so much time and money on those cartoons for the kids like the cartoon where Jehovah God is going to kill them like all those people at the flood if they fall asleep at the meetings.
Threatening them with death is no different than the child who was shot to death in this video for refusing to believe two plus two equals five. That is what happens to us as adults in the Watchtower too when we get disfellowshipped for standing up to the Watchtower lies too. It is emotional suicide and that could be compared to all those other children shooting that kid that dared to stand up to lies when all our friends turn against us when the Society forces them to shun us.
It is nothing but evil, the way religion is used to make people do things that would otherwise be crazy.
This analogy was a school setting but the same thing happens in churches because they are led to believe that they owe their lives to their Gods and so whatever God wants them to do, they will do it, just as the teacher in the illustration forced compliance from the children in his classroom.
The JW religion is no different than all those other crazy religions that think God is supporting their terrorist attacks on innocent people. The Watchtower and all religions want to indoctrinate kids early before they can reason on things.
Yesterday I was listening to the radio and the man who had the talk show was going on and on about the attacks in Paris and how those “crazy” people do what they think their God is asking of them by killing all those people etc. and then he went on to say something to the effect: “Not like the “real” God, our God” and he was serious.
Reply
 
 Just the facts says:

 November 17, 2015 at 10:53 am
 
Forced conversions and Orwellian cult control were definitely not something the God I believe in thought me. My God doesn’t say obey me blindly instead he wants me to get to know him and form a personal friendship with him without a human middle man. The Christ came to get rid of those and sad I couldn’t see it sooner.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 17, 2015 at 5:41 pm
 
[off-topic comment removed, see posting guidelines before posting again]
Reply
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 18, 2015 at 11:15 am
 
@observer If God does exist, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that he does; he has nothing to do with the Watchtower Cult Society.
The evidence against this organization is so abundant and condemning, that it even seems God himself is making sure the truth about the Watchtower “truth” reaches those seeking him. There is nowhere to hide their anti Christ behavior anymore.
Reply
 
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 18, 2015 at 1:04 pm
 
So a lifelong friend of mine just got df’d – and from what I can tell its for drinking. And after talking with him it became apparent to me that he is depressed and miserable for not living up to his families expectations. His crime? He never regular or aux pioneered. He worked fulltime and provided a great life for he and his wife. But apparently years of not feeling worthy and never being used turned into bad habits. I having been df’d for just two years and having fully awoken was able to ask him some tough questions. When he admitted he had been depressed and the elders advice to him was “Pray more – read more magazines – and go out in service.” I was of course expecting that. So I kindly but strategically asked him “When your tooth hurts who do you reach out to?” he responded “The dentist.” I asked him if you need new glasses who would you go to? He replied an optometrist. I asked “So if your mental health needs a tune up who do you go to?” and he responded “The elders.” and I said “Really? So everything else that requires a specialist you go and see someone trained in that field. But your brain – the CPU and regulator of your emotions is qualified to be handled by a window washer and a sales associate from Best Buy?”
He got a good laugh about it as did I. I scheduled an appointment with a family therapist the same day who helped me during my shock and loss. Why is it so damn hard for an intelligent adult elder to say “Here is spiritually something to focus on. But you should also seek professional help. Use caution – and make sure their help aligns with your beliefs. But explore your options and keep us posted on how that goes. Here are times in the future we will be checking in with you. Please don’t hesitate to let us know what more we can do for you in the meantime.”
^ why if one out of two elders applied that logical thinking you’d see a lot less faders and drifters.
Reply
 
 
 rob says:

 November 18, 2015 at 1:50 pm
 
@phoenix_rising
your reasoning and logic on seeing a mental health professional is very good and your comments are very insightful.
I know from experience that many elders in the witness religion use the standard line and direct individuals who are depressed to the witness literature as a “cure all”. They usually do not provide any further guidance or follow up and the individuals are usually left on their own to deal with depression and other issues.
I also have heard comments that a therapist does not understand the “truth” and will try to instill worldly thinking in the individual.
We are all aware of the fact that the witness religion is very controlling of its members and will at all costs keep them from any independent thinking – they do not appear to care about the person and their health – they only care about keeping the person in the religion.
I have seen witnesses who have been depressed for years and have never been properly diagnosed or treated, all because a cult like religion tells them that as long as they read the literature they will be ok.
Guidance and reasoning, such as indicated in the comments made by phoenix rising will help people to realize that it is important to see specialists who can help them.
Reply
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 18, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 
Thank you you are far too kind. When I was df’d I felt I was in the truth and the overwhelming sense of dread forced me to turn to metal health professionals as I was dealing with PTSD. The panic attacks, anxiety, depression etc. And in my experience the family therapist never once tried to destroy my faith or make me question anything other than the actions of others and how they made me feel. I will never forget this ‘ah ha!” moment when she described my being df’d as this: “So basically its like your entire family and friend and social circle were on a plane at the same time and it crashed – and overnight you lost everyone you ever knew and cared about. But worse for you they aren’t dead – but you are made to feel like they are. You’re body is in shock because its trying to grieve for people who are still alive.”
Wow! That is disfellowshipping as viewed from a neutral trained professional. Fortunately for me the therapy helped and being young I have bounced back and am working on my family.
Reply
 
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 18, 2015 at 6:23 pm
 
My psychologist never tells me what to think. I believe real professionals listen and don’t want to tell people what to do out of fear of being sued. I was treated for clinical depression after my right lung was removed. I had precancerous tutors. JWs are very biased.
Reply
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 18, 2015 at 6:26 pm
 
It doesn’t matter the reason. Go see a specialist.
Reply
 
 
 
 GEM says:

 November 19, 2015 at 2:01 am
 
@Robert67: your remarks could be addressed to all religion. . The last BAC I met on line was quite happy to slate other groups but not so happy when I questioned the bullying of Iraqi kids by American Evangelical soldiers, into accepting Jesus. These people having just murders their innocent parents with sophisticated weapons. Then to hold them in fear by instilling the fear of hellfire and eternal torture. No wonder some of these kids are irreparably damaged by these religious hypocrites . . Perhaps that is why many of us feel we answer to a Creator but not to a Religious sub set . . I no longer subscribe to WT . .but I can comfort those kids by assuring them that no JW would have pressed that button that destroyed their lives and ripped their families apart. It is great to see issues raised on this forum. Thank you James for raising the issue of Autism and how it is handled by JWs.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 19, 2015 at 5:50 am
 
The perversion of scripture is definitely not unique to the WT.
Reply
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 19, 2015 at 9:16 am
 
It is good to see that many individuals have, notwithstanding the poor advice given by elders, gone to see therapists who have helped them.
Despite what the witnesses say about “worldly people”, therapists are educated and trained to be objective and to provide the individual with avenues and mechanisms to deal with depression, PTSD and other mental health issues. They are not there to change a person’s thinking on religious issues or to discredit any religion.
When I was a witness I was repeatedly told that any “worldly person” (a term which I absolutely abhor), would influence me in a negative way and that my associations were to be limited to witnesses only and that good “therapy” came in the form of meetings and witness literature and association with witness people only.
Provided that I attended all meetings and did all of my personal study and did more and more and more for the witness religion, I would be happy. But I was not happy and even though my family were all witnesses and my friends were witnesses, I never felt like I could speak freely or think freely and the rules were getting more and more burdensome and the kingdom hall just seemed so empty and lifeless and it became a chore to associate before and after the meeting as it felt like a corporate marketing event. Most of all I could not stand the fact that like a corporation, the hierarchy was so pronounced within each congregation and so many that struggled with meetings or service were like outcasts and even ridiculed during the gossip session that was wednesday morning service.
I guess the “witness therapy” did not work for me.
Reply
 
 
 Alexandria R says:

 November 19, 2015 at 5:49 pm
 
Going door to door never brought me happiness. I’ll never do it again. Those days are over. The pioneers I’ve known were guilty of showing off and snobbery. There was a lot of look at me, look at me I’m a good example while they cheated on their hours. It was sad watching witnesses stress out over their hours. That is a life style that doesn’t bring happiness. I hated pioneering and the witnesses around me hated it too. They looked worried and wouldn’t smile most of the time. I have a co worker who is catholic. He uses his vacation time from work to go with his teenage son and daughter to orphanages in Hati. Mentally retarded children and physically handicapped children live with the orphans. My co worker brings photos of his trips to the orphanage to work to show us. The photos are interesting. The Hati military escort him to the orphanage. JWs never think of doing things like that because the Jw religion is superficial.
Reply
 
 
 AutiesAreOk says:

 November 19, 2015 at 10:46 pm
 
Ok, so I’m a ‘high functioning’ (I find the term somewhat insulting) autistic person that was raised as a JW. I don’t know what you’re going through as a parent. (I have no kids of my own, but from what I hear parenting is hard) But I do have a few insights on what that experience is like growing up.
‘She’d observed what appeared to her as “sensory processing” problems.’
Nobody knows what it’s like to live in someone else’s body. The idea that other people experience the world in a way that’s very different from you is difficult for adults to grasp, let alone children. Autistic people can experience the world in more detail than non-autistic people do. On the plus side you notice things most people don’t. On the downside you get overwhelmed more easily than your peers. Think of it like internet speed. You can download lots of small files, or a few large files, but not lots of large files. We can’t change how we process information, but we can throttle our sensory intake by controlling our exposure to external stimuli. (at least we can as adults, as children we have parents and teachers to contend with :p ) Autistic kids know this intuitively, but may have a hard time expressing it out loud. ( I couldn’t until my late 20’s )
‘I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to take him to stadiums full of 10,000 people where they all clap simultaneously to someone speaking on a loud PA.
 That, I can safely say, would be absolute hell.’
Yep. Hot humid weather and itchy ‘meeting clothes’ don’t help either.
‘High functioning Autistic people are often highly logical and have a knack for critical thinking. There is one thing that the organization is lacking severely: logic. Their doctrines don’t make sense, and as this child grows up he will undoubtedly see this.’
Ok, so one of the fun things about Autism is social blindness. As an autistic kid I came to accept that other people could jump through the invisible hoops that I couldn’t, both with social cues and with the jw stuff. ( I tended to lump them together ) So yes, the things the organization says and does don’t make any logical sense, but as an autistic child none of the things people do or say make any logical sense. If you’re already primed to accept this reliance on logic as a ‘disability’, it makes you easier to manipulate than someone that more intuitively understands social norms.
‘One of the most important things you can do is create a strong support system of people who will be with you through the good times and the bad.’
Having an atypical neurotype can be challenging. In the JW world, being an atypical anything is automatically ‘bad’. If you have a kid on the autism spectrum, the best thing you can do is to help them to be a better autistic person. You can only improve yourself after you’ve first accepted who you are.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 November 20, 2015 at 3:59 am
 
Bravo! Autisareok. I just love your comments thankyou so much. You summed things up in a nutshell. Raisng two kids in hell is no paradise (see earlier comments). but to have an adult perspective is what some of us need. After that broadcast i have all the bloody “experts” telling me what to do with my kids. One goon actually said that of course they don’t have any feelings. Is murder allowed on grounds of exasperation. So i calmly said actually you have got that so wrong in fact the asd people have so many more fine tuned emotions in puts you neurotypicals on about neanderthal level smiling sweetly as i watched his brain fizz. Just a small victory. Have you noticed all the hypochondriac jdubs are such experts in things they know nothing about. Autism will be the latest fashion. wev’e suffered bipolar. fibromyalgia aka multiple excuses for not going in fs. Umm let me make a pseudo list of all the illnessess in my kh. i hope they put them on the report slip as doctors note why we never see them! candida (so ill the fungus got in the brain) i kid you not a reason for not doing anything. yuppie flu aka worked hard once.ADHD yes i know this is genuine but some just love a label.Here in brit you can get help and many do a lot have such terrible problems they do get gov assistance. They get to an age where they are all so ill and feeble and make one excuse after another. Iv’e seen a sis milk her particular medical condition till the cow needed reviving no milk left! So folks you know autism is real and our dear ones suffer and are ignored bullied made to feel guilty and generally misunderstood. To me the life’s irony is that asd people would never make up pseudo illnessess because it is not logical so they actually suffer more because they don’t fudge the issue and play at being jws. What a dilemma never being actually free. One thing i will say is that i encourage my children to read whatever they want to find out what interest them. So back to Autiesareok, cool name blessings to you and keep posting with thanks ruthlee.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 20, 2015 at 8:30 am
 
To all those who suffer with or have children or family members with Autism etc I take my hat off to you. I have never had this in my family so find it hard to understand. I have read your comments on here and apart from the fact the WT is way off with giving help and understanding it must be a day to day struggle…. that sounds very ignorant of me and yes it is because again, I have no idea what you are going through. A sister in out hall has a daughter who I am told is Autistic’. She, on observing her, after reading this article, goes into a world of her own and seems quite content until something disturbs her or distracts her attention, then she is obviously distressed. Sometimes she will speak but mostly she has her head down and has her own agenda yet I have known her come out with remarks regarding her environment that are quite profound. They lost a pet this year and when everyone was out looking for it – myself included, she just sat back and watched then said ‘You know we all die at some point so why stress. If she comes back then great, if not it is just part of life’. Not bad for an 8 year old.
So thank you for the article but also for the experiences that have made me look in a new light at those who deal with this.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 20, 2015 at 9:13 am
 
‘You know we all die at some point so why stress………it is just part of life’.
Not bad for an 8 year old indeed. Hopefully one day she will make the connection and come to see that the WT’s promise of never dying, living forever on a paradise earth is not possible, it’s just hogwash since mortality is the natural order of things.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Art Fern says:

 November 20, 2015 at 8:34 pm
 
I have heard so many Witnesses make reference to group pressure to use corporal punishment in order to “train” the little ones to stop being restless and to pay attention to the dry and repetitive messages in meetings. Is it possible that children who do have unrecognized symptoms of autism might have the bloody hell beaten out of them for not doing whatever it is that all parents are to teach their little kids to do? The author of the piece makes no mention of this but logically I would have a hard time eliminating the possibility that a child who went off into his or her own world might be recognized as being rebellious and refusing to listen. I hope I am wrong. The stories I have heard haunt me as it is.
Reply
 
 
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← The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism?
The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond? →
 
The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”
Posted on November 20, 2015

A young woman shows solidarity by holding aloft a French flag in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks that has claimed 130 lives
A young woman shows solidarity by holding aloft a French flag in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks that has claimed 130 lives

In light of the horrendous terror attacks in Paris last week, Facebook users received the option to update their profile photos with an overlay consisting of the red, white and blue colors of the French Flag.
It’s reasonable to assume that individuals who update their profiles with this feature do so in a sincere display of solidarity with the people of France and the victims of a gruesome crime committed by backward thinking, brainwashed Islamic terrorists. Few people would perceive such a gesture as a pledge of allegiance to a government.
Apparently, some active Jehovah’s Witnesses dared to take part in these displays of the French colors, and it quickly stirred up disquiet among pro-JW Facebook groups.
Hemant Mehta over at the Friendly Atheist blog wrote about this very subject a few days ago. He makes some very valid arguments and you may read his article for yourself but I’d like to highlight the kind of silly contretemps this subject has induced in these pro-JW Facebook groups. (See screenshot)
france2
When a Jehovah’s Witnesses inquires whether it’s proper to display French colors in their profile, they are essentially asking; would such a gesture violate my neutrality and my faith?
It’s sad that someone would need input from strangers on a decision that is really a personal matter, but let’s not focus on the inquirers when there is a much more disturbing sentiment in the response by pro-JW moderators of these groups, and in the comments of rank-and-file JW Facebook users.
That disturbing sentiment is… indifference.
Jehovah’s Witnesses use the doctrine of political neutrality to explain why they don’t salute the flag, sing the national anthem, vote in elections or volunteer for military service. They believe that God’s heavenly Kingdom is the only solution to humanity’s problems and as such, most acts of civic duty constitute a lack of faith in God’s Kingdom.
On the surface, such a belief seems harmless, but for most Jehovah’s Witnesses this doctrine envelopes all displays of political awareness including gestures of sympathy. So, it’s no surprise that the reply by the moderator for the “Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses Worldwide” group would include the following statement:

“Those who are putting the colors of the French flag on their profile pictures are thus not showing the same impartiality as Jesus did.”
Not once does the Moderator acknowledge that it could be a solemn sign of sympathy for the French people or even the victims themselves. Instead, the Moderator argues that these gestures aren’t made for “similar or worse terror attacks” and questions: “why should France receive preferential treatment?”
This last statement is a clear snapshot of the Moderator’s indifference: “Terrorism is a part of the world system today; it is a symptom of the corrupt governance that runs the world today. Genuine Christians would therefore stay completely neutral in matters of this sort, and not become nationalistic in their thinking.”
The unquestioned obedience to a group of old men in Brooklyn is bad enough, but the callous indifference to the suffering of human beings that may not share your religious views is far more dangerous.
“How can a religious group that evangelizes to save lives be dangerous?”
Most Jehovah’s Witnesses would argue that they care about their neighbors, and this may be true at a personal level. But really most of their interaction with non-witnesses outside of secular work occurs within the context of trying to convert non-believers.
The truth is there are no JW charities, JW soup kitchens, JW clothing drives, or JW support groups. So far as I know, there are no JW organizations trying to improve the lives of others outside of the ministry work.
It’s difficult to blame rank-and-file JWs for their lack of charity. The organization is run by a group of delusional men who live in a social bubble. They’re protected from the day-to-day worries of the average person and are surrounded by “yes” men. All of their basic necessities are covered and they bask in the adoration of millions of followers who cling to every decree that comes down from the ivory towers in Brooklyn. Their indifference trickles down in their teachings.
Here’s a real example of how this can occur…
On Tuesday, September 11th, 2001 I would have found myself at 150 Broadway in Downtown Manhattan, two blocks away from the World Trade Center, had I not taken a personal day from work to support the service group during a Circuit Overseer visit.
I wouldn’t have been in direct risk of harm as the offices were far enough away to see little harm other than being overcome by the dust storm that followed the Tower collapses. In the aftermath, the company relocated the staff to the midtown offices because parts of downtown would be inaccessible for the weeks that followed.
I make these disclaimers because I don’t want to exploit the 9/11 tragedy to make my point, but my proximity to everything made the events of that day a very personal matter.
Just like millions of people across the world, I watched events on television. I also climbed to the rooftop of my apartment building for a clear view of the Downtown skyline only to find dozens of my neighbors already up there watching the horrible scenes unfold. The Towers eventually collapsed, and the eerie silence of a city that was always buzzing remains the most vivid memory of that day.
Later that evening, I received a Nextel “chirp” (remember those Nextel walkie-talkie phones?) from the Security Coordinator at work. They were trying to organize volunteers to help dig people out of the rubble. I was immediately compelled to assist in any way possible, so I recruited my brother and another Ministerial Servant from the congregation, and we set out to make our way into Manhattan.
Our efforts were thwarted by the police at every bridge and tunnel crossing into the city. Only Emergency Personnel and their vehicles were allowed to pass.
We eventually made our way to the waterfront Promenade in Brooklyn Heights at the feet of Watchtower’s Brooklyn Headquarters. I rang a Bethelite who served in our congregation; he came down from one of the Bethel residential buildings and joined us at the Promenade. The four of us stood there, leaning over the rails, looking across the East River. We could see and smell the smoke that filled the space where the Towers once stood. It felt so close I could touch it.
By that time, my brother and our friend had given up trying to get into Manhattan, but I would not relent. I asked a Police Officer how we could assist, and he pointed us to a nearby Red Cross office that was enlisting volunteers.
My brother and our friend agreed to go with me but they balked at registering to volunteer with the Red Cross because in their minds it was a “religious organization.” I then looked to our Bethelite friend to see if he’d be willing to join us, and he uttered the words that I would never forget: “Let the dead bury their dead.”
My Bethelite friend was quoting the words of Jesus in Luke 9:60 responding to a man who wanted to spend time at home with his aging father before committing himself to follow Christ.
At first I thought; “Surely, he isn’t using this bible quote to point out the futility in offering ourselves to aid in the rescue efforts?” Our Bethelite friend followed up with “the best thing we can do for these people now is inform them about Jehovah’s divine plan.” Those words defeated me.
I did register with the Red Cross and volunteered the next day to clean up Emergency Vehicles that came across the bridge covered in the dust and ash of the rubble, but the indifferent words of my Bethelite friend disturb me to this day.
Overall, my Bethelite friend is a decent human being. I like to think that the events that day simply weren’t as personal to him as they were to me, and that if confronted with the opportunity to lend a hand to someone in need, under different circumstances, love and compassion would motivate his actions.
The reality is that he looked at the events through the filters of his indoctrination. Sure, he was present but not connected in any real way with the victims of the atrocity. He was taught since childhood that it really is a futile endeavor to try to improve the world; that the ONLY remedy to all the bad things about the world is Jehovah, and that we should busy ourselves in the ministry work instead. It probably didn’t help that he also lived in that Bethelite “bubble,” an environment that fosters indifference.
Indifference is the reason a Jehovah’s Witness can view something trivial like displaying French colors on your Facebook profile as an act of disloyalty to Jehovah. Not because they are absent or don’t observe the tragedy, but because they are not connected with the victims.
The indifference does not allow them to look at non-believers as more than just sinners that have not yet accepted the “truth” and converted. It does not allow them to question the authority of those who invent their doctrine and enforce its rules.
This might seem like elitism, pride or arrogance that one could chalk up to a flawed ego. The reason this indifference is dangerous is that it’s not ego, it’s a symptom of their brainwashing. When we stop viewing our fellow man as human, as our equal, we tend to disconnect.
A quote often attributed to Edmund Burke says; “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” If we think about many of history’s atrocities, we soon understand that most, if not all of them, occur because a large group of people were indifferent towards another group, often a smaller one.
Most Germans didn’t hate Jews, but their indifference allowed Nazi Anti-Semitism to spread. Most Americans didn’t hate African-Americans, but their indifference allowed those in power to embed their racist views in the political fabric of the country for centuries.
What atrocities have Watchtower leaders been allowed to nurture because they’ve promoted a spirit of indifference within their ranks?
Most Witness love their families, but the indifference that streams down from the Governing Body allows them to view their loved ones a sinners, destined for destruction and worthy of shunning.
Most Witnesses are kind, friendly people, but indifference allows them to accept a view that non-believers are to be kept at arm’s length, and are worthy only of necessary interactions or spiritual aid.
Most Witnesses love their children and would risk their lives to protect them, but their indifference toward life in this “system of things” allows them to forfeit their inherent paternal instincts. They refuse lifesaving blood transfusions for themselves and their children in acts of loyalty to an organization in exchange for the promise of some future life in “paradise.”
I could go on forever about the things JWs forfeit due to the indifference their indoctrination promotes, but I’d rather make a call to action.
The Remedy to Indifference… Action
If you are an Ex-JW still reeling from the damage this cult has caused you, or if you’re an active JW mentally out and unable to walk away right now – you are not powerless. The remedy to indifference is action.
You may not be able to change the minds of those around you directly. It’s also unlikely that anyone in the Watchtower’s hierarchy can be moved to change by your actions alone. However, your activism doesn’t have to be related to the “JW world” in any way. You don’t have go “full apostate” to affect positive changes in your own world. All you have to do is connect.
Volunteer at a local homeless shelter or soup kitchen. Run a 5k to raise awareness for a cause that is personal to you. Take your kids with you. Show them how you can help other humans in more ways than handing them a bible tract or a Watchtower magazine.
If you can, participate in school functions, bake sales, PTA meetings, community yard sales, potlucks, etc. Invite your JW friends too. Chisel away at the indifference and you’ll find yourself connected to the community around you, and not just to people at your local Kingdom Hall. You’ll not only see the world without “JW Goggles” – you’ll be more inclined to sympathy, empathy and forgiveness toward humans in general, but more importantly… yourself.
You may not be inclined to fly the colors of the French flag in your Facebook profile, but you’ll understand those that do. And you may even understand that those hyper-sensitive “moral agents” who think a display of solidarity is treason against a publishing company are merely cold and indifferent self-deceivers.
Let’s take back our lives and connect with world.
Let’s be humane to the humans.
Oh and by the way… “Vive la France”!
 
A guest post by James Sequoia


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← The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses – a safe group for children with Autism?
The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond? →
 
206 Responses to The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”


Newer Comments →
 
 JBob says:

 November 20, 2015 at 3:25 pm
 
Maybe those few bold Witnesses should change from the French colours to the Pride colors–another international movement?
Or, if someone asks me about my use of French colours, I could counter with–but, I have NGO status.
Yes, I’m in a mode today–
Reply
 
 Paul ngugi says:

 November 21, 2015 at 1:32 am
 
@J Bob
 Perfect response………just like the org. was an NGO affiliated with the UN, we can also be an NGO affiliated with France…but honestly i empathize with the French people just like the way loads of others sympathized with the my country(Kenya) when almost 150 students were killed in a University
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 November 25, 2015 at 5:16 pm
 
@Paul n – as do I. I believe as stated in 2001, with the first act on USA soil, this ideological war will not be over in a few years, but will take a long duration with stunning casualties among civilians.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 PJ Wilcox says:

 November 20, 2015 at 3:38 pm
 
I fly old glory on my front porch. I want
 a MIA flag and honor those that died for this country. I give blood also. Being in this cult for 45 years took a while to get out. Being shunned is fine by me because the people that don’t talk to me have nothing to say that interests me in the first place.
 I also have given 2 eulogies for for great military soldiers.
Go Army
 Beat Navy
Reply
 
 
 Julie says:

 November 20, 2015 at 3:44 pm
 
Brilliant post. I tried to make the point on Twitter that Jehovah’s Witnesses and radical Muslims have something in common. They both forfeit this life and are indifferent to suffering because they are brainwashed into throwing this life away and concentrating on an afterlife. They both yearn for Armageddon. That is why they feel nothing for anybody who does not follow their ideals. So sad, destructive and scary.
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 dee says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:45 pm
 
What an apt comparison Julie, I couldn’t agree with you more.
What is also so sad is the fact that the JWs capitalize on the misfortunes of the victims of terrorist attacks by using these misfortunes as talking points to push their religion yet none of those JWs would donate blood to save the victims’ lives.
I am sure the JWs would be offended by being compared to terrorists but they have a mass execution planned when their god will kill all mankind, including innocent children, who are not JWs at Armageddon. This is the god who made a covenant to never again destroy all life by the waters of a flood (Genesis 9:11, 15).
According to the WT, Isaiah 65:17-25 and Isaiah 11:6-9 indicate that animals will be in paradise. So god is somehow going to protect all the animals on earth and spare them from destruction at Armageddon but kill all the non-witness babies and children. Apparently the animals are more deserving than the innocent babies and children.
I also find it very interesting that persons who are ignorant about Jehovah and are alive when Armageddon strikes will be put to death and their death is final yet persons who are ignorant of Jehovah but die BEFORE Armageddon will be given a resurrection to get a second chance to learn about god.
The JWs will even be rejoicing over the millions of corpses at Armageddon:
“……..rejoice at the fiery destruction that proceeded from Jehovah’s celestial chariot against hypocritical Christendom and all the rest of Babylon the Great. Surely all of us want to be on the side of those who rejoice when that occurs.
– The Nations Shall Know That I am Jehovah – How? (WTBTS, 1971 pg. 191).
“At that time none of Jehovah’s faithful servants, the only ones surviving, will mourn over the destruction of the wicked. To the contrary, they will rejoice, even as Moses and his people rejoiced at the destruction of Pharaoh and his army.” – Watchtower June 1, 1977 pg. 345.
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 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 21, 2015 at 6:13 am
 
Awesome comment Dee, you make some excellent points, a couple I hadn’t thought about before, thank you.
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 enlightened now says:

 November 21, 2015 at 4:59 pm
 
Dee – that has always been my Achilles heel. I could not from such a young age understand why babies and young children would not get through and I remember having sleepless nights worrying about them and how I could somehow save them all!!! Sad really because I now realise that every one of us are deserving of goodness and are pure enough for compassion and true love. I never worry about mankind now because we are all equal and all very much loved as I believe that I am too – from the universe (I left off the Jehovah God analogy).
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 enlightened now says:

 November 21, 2015 at 5:05 pm
 
Dee – that has always been my Achilles heel. I could not from such a young age understand why babies and young children would not get through and I remember having sleepless nights worrying about them and how I could somehow save them all!!! Sad really because I now realise that every one of us are deserving of goodness and are pure enough for compassion and true love. I never worry about mankind now because we are all equal and all very much loved as I believe that I am too – from the universe (I left off the Jehovah God analogy). So I embrace people of all sorts without judgment because there is no judgment just love!!
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 dee says:

 November 20, 2015 at 6:36 pm
 
@Julie
Some persons view the Bible as a recycling of the Jews’ Torah, with the Koran being a recycling of both. This perhaps explains the commonality between the JWs and the radical Muslims which you mention regarding Armageddon.
Interestly some Christians are of the opinion that the book of Revelation should not have been included in the Bible. There are Christians who believe that Revelation teaches opinions contrary to Jesus and his apostles. There are Christians who believe that the writer of Revelation was writing from his own experience and perspective; he was writing about the fall of the Roman Empire and that God would recreate a New Jerusalem out of its ruins. The book of Revelation is therefore not considered to be prophetic of mankind’s future as far as these Christians are concerned – if there is no Revelation, then there is no Armageddon………but the radical Muslims seem bent on creating an Armageddon of their own.
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 Meredith J says:

 November 21, 2015 at 3:05 am
 
dee, yes I have heard that before. That theory really doesn’t stand up to scrutiny when the book of Revelation blends in perfectly with the rest of the Bible. The Old Testament is full of references to Armageddon. They are like clues or jigsaw pieces to the puzzle. I guess it proves who wrote the Bible because it was written in the past about the future. It won’t be fully proven till it has actually happened.
Reply
 
 
 
 Gardy says:

 November 21, 2015 at 9:40 pm
 
Julie, I cannot agree with your comparison! Jehovah witnesses and radical Islam are fundamentally different! It’s two different things! That would be unfair, no matter how much you hate the witnesses, to Compare the two! Nevertheless, my heart goes out to the French people and the victims and their families! I, myself like many non- jehovah witnesses, didn’t put French flag on my Facebook page! Not because I wasn’t touch by that tragedy but because I think it would be more appropriate for Facebook to offer the same opportunity to sympathize with other countries that are hit by terrorists’ acts! It’s obviously not a sin or something wrong to put the French flag on my profile and nobody in the congregation could convince me otherwise! But it’s not being numb to human suffering either if someone thinks it’s inappropriate and not impartial to share the French flag on his or her profile when Facebook doesn’t give the same opportunity to all the victims in so many parts of the world!
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 Victor says:

 November 23, 2015 at 1:51 am
 
Hello to everybody, congratulations for the work you carry out. I wanted to respond to the comment about the difference between the JW and Muslims. Of course we do not kill nobody PHYSICALLY, but only because the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses being born in the West have fortunately imported Western values ​​and laws. But we abandon “the infidels” to the social death that in some cases leading to suicide (so what’s the difference?), Infidels who in some cases were guilty only of “insulting the prophet” (GB), we have banned in years health therapies that led to the deaths of hundreds of people and continue to do so now with the blood, we’ve tackled totalitarian regimes just for the sake of us persecute and kill so and demonstrate that we were right. So what’s the difference? Just because we were born in the so-called civilized world and not go around to slaughter people? History has shown that all religions are a source of division, hatred and death (at least those monotheistic, the only religion I think is really pacifist is Buddhism, but I do not know the subject well enough). God, if it exists, can not be happy of no religion. Sorry for my poor English, I hope to be able to make myself understood.
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 John Baptist says:

 November 20, 2015 at 3:46 pm
 
Let’s face it these folks and their ideas bespeak Psychotic nature. How could you alow your own child to die because of a flawed doctrine conjured up on Blood which dealt with Animal sacrifices not HUMAN blood transfusions? Your a Murderer!!
 This gives you a notion of just how brainwashed people can be down to death. Your no different then Islamic extremists who blow themselves up.
 Wake up wake up you people haven’t you had enough of that Governing Body!!
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 21, 2015 at 10:46 am
 
@John Baptist
 Your points on blood are well taken. The reason for the original sanction on blood was to teach respect for life. So blood is merely a symbol representing life. The JW’s put more emphasis on respecting the symbol than what it stands for: life. They end up disrespecting life and acting contrary to the actual lesson the blood sanction is intended to teach.
 WS
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 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 21, 2015 at 10:45 pm
 
well said WS
Reply
 
 
 
 Gardy says:

 November 21, 2015 at 9:58 pm
 
John Baptist, I agree with you on that the ban on blood transfusion is base on a flawed doctrine, but comparing suicide bombers with Jehovah witnesses refusing blood for themselves and their kids is a false analogy! The intent of the two is obviously not and will never be the same! We should try to be objective and fair in everything we say or in our criticisms!
Reply
 
 Anthony says:

 November 23, 2015 at 7:09 am
 
I’m sorry, Gardy, but it isn’t a false analogy at all. A Witness parent refusing a blood transfusion for a child that (even legally) has little to no say in the matter is no different than a terrorist that murders someone. The professor (parent/terrorist) is imposing their religious view to the detriment of someone (child/victim) that has no say in the matter. I can think of few better analogies.
The blood issue is the sole reason my family will never have custody of my daughter should something happen to me. Because the doctrine is crazy. Like “blow up a market full of people” crazy.
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 jeff canning says:

 November 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm
 
great article, sums up the Brooklyn bovver boys as the pathetic, family destroying clowns they are… Keep up the good work…
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 Average Joe says:

 November 20, 2015 at 4:20 pm
 
Very good post and I wholeheartedly agree with getting involved in humanitarian efforts. The clue is in the name: we are all human first so should not allow anyone to stifle the genuine human capacity to help others in need.
 Being from the UK, I’ve seen first hand for many years how evil terrorism is, having to suffer IRA attacks (funded by many Americans feeling sorry for the poor Irish as it happens until terrorism finally came home to them in 911 and America realised just how horrendous it is) in my country.
 No one should have to justify their humane actions to ANYBODY. This stupid idea that if you have a flag in your status then you’re being patriotic is ridiculous. Unfortunately many JWs seem to no longer be able to think for themselves.
 Hats off to James for helping out with the Red Cross. I would have done the same if I had been there.
 J’suis Paris.
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 Markie says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:16 am
 
Do you really think that the USA supported the IRA. That is ridiculous. Maybe some Irish Americans and or first generation Irish immigrants.
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 Average Joe says:

 November 22, 2015 at 1:01 pm
 
Thanks for the reply Markie. Half of my family are from Belfast and can vouch for my previous comment. They are who I got it from. Maybe it was only Irish Americans but Americans nonetheless. Read up about it. The British government asked the American government for more arms to supply the police with in Northern Ireland and were flatly refused so even passively they were supporting the IRA, given that the US & UK are supposed to be allies.
 The group “Clannad” (Irish music group quite big in the 80s and same lead singer as Enya) actually put on the sleeve notes on some of their earlier albums that part of the proceeds go to the support the IRA. Alas, I digress. I don’t think any less of Americans however, only the scum who are the terrorists.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Mama Joy says:

 November 20, 2015 at 4:35 pm
 
Since everyone else is going to die at Armaggedon so that the Jehovah’s Witnesses can live in a Paradise earth and Isis is trying to start Armageddon, then isn’t Isis doing the Lords work?
Reply
 
 Caltanzee says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:34 pm
 
Mama Joy..lol..The only work of the lord was to preach the kingdom good news..Jesus didn’t even allow his disciples to fight on his behalf..So these barbaric acts of violence is not of Christ.. With all the power at his disposal he don’t need the aid of humans..when he told the disciple to put away his sword..he said he could of summoned legions of Angels to his defense if needed be… Thus human barbaric violence is definitely not of Christ. The scriptures clearly States that Christ return will be accompanied with a host of heavenly Angels..Not any earthly humans acting in deluded hypocrisy.
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 BG says:

 November 20, 2015 at 4:42 pm
 
This article is interesting to me. The jws are very single minded…basically, the only thing that has real importance is the kingdom. An elder gave a talk one time about a sister whose child was molested, and the mother became something of an activist against molestation. The elder said there were “more important things” to focus on than that. In other words…the kingdom was more important than what happened to her child. I am sorry, but I felt that what happened to this sister’s child was minimized. My children were molested, and it ruined our lives. Unfortunately, I now see how the organization has covered up cases of abuse and it makes sense to me now. I know that Jehovah is the true and loving God and that what happens to us is important, not something to be brushed aside as unimportant. Jesus felt other people’s pain. I often wonder if the watchtower and bible tract society thinks about anything but protecting themselves.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 21, 2015 at 2:42 am
 
BG. I am so sorry about your kids. But the reality is that they never did care about anything other than themselves. Protecting little ones was not their priority, even though they told us that our children were ‘safe’. It was nothing but a lie.
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 Meredith J says:

 November 21, 2015 at 2:44 am
 
And I certainly hope you get compensated too. It was their policies that compounded your grief.
Reply
 
 BG says:

 November 21, 2015 at 5:18 am
 
Thank you for your kind words. It means a great deal to me.
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 Caltanzee says:

 November 20, 2015 at 4:54 pm
 
There’s definitely a disconnect between jws and those whom they view as worldly.That is people not in good standing within the organization.You can safely say as I can attest to. That jws lives in a bubble of isolation from the real world around them. If you are not having a jw bible study and attending the KM.Your value to them is as chaft being blown by the wind.You don’t even deserve a donut and a cup of coffee..I remember a few years ago my wife and I attended an assembly at Nassau colosseum in Ny.
 We were refused service at the canteens because we did not display our congregation badges. As they said many homeless and others come only to get a free meal..we had to walk three blocks to McDonald’s.. This goes to show the disconnect and lack of compassion for those they view as not worthy..Jesus had compassion for the poor and needy..Jws elitist attitude creates a vast disconnect from the people around them…I know!! I was once part of that flawed mental attitude. We really should care about others regardless of religious or political affiliations.. Christ died for all..not for one group of individuals. It is just, good and righteous to sigh, and groan over the detestable things that’s going on in this world, and to stand in solidarity and sympathy with the people suffering from these senseless acts of violence.
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 Chiafade says:

 November 20, 2015 at 9:10 pm
 
I remember those conventions at Nassau coliseum. The McDonald’s was the only food establishment nearby and crossing the street to get to it was harrowing. I served food there and always gave out extra danishes badge or not f*** the rules. The food would be wasted otherwise. It certainly wasn’t sent to feed the poor.
 Witnesses live an insulated existence. They question whether it’s okay to do anything of a kind nature when its not related to the org. Give to charity? “Well the best kind of charity is the kingdom preaching”
Feed the poor? This one is tricky because it depends on the country. Let’s say the U.S.
“It’s better to teach them FIRST. Then if they progress we may give them food. You know like Jesus .”
I’ve known many compassionate ones but the majority feel that no one else in the world is WORTHY of ANYTHING good. Even if they worked hard and honestly for it. Like when they point out the houses they’ll move into when the current owners die at armageddon.
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 Willy says:

 November 20, 2015 at 4:56 pm
 
Its ok to have Flags on Kingdom Hall properties to prevent Civil fines but they are not allowed to show any type of compassion. Why is anyone surprised? We grew up in the Org, we know how they react on almost all topics so what are we really thinking about? We feel so bad for all the victims of such a cruel religion.
http://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/still-sleepwalking-toward-armageddon
To see the personal growth many of you posters have achieved is what truly bothers the Watchtower and all the Members of their Organization! We know their angry your living a good life, existing strong without high-group-mind-control Elders bossing you, your spouse, your kids or anyone around, who need’s that insanity!
That cheap line “The best way to get even is by living good!” is true, how many times have you run in to your former friends and their telling you about all the bad things happening at the Kingdom Hall or Circuit and they get bummed out when you tell them “I am doing well, a Higher Power is taking very good care of me(Life, Universe, the World) and I am so sorry things are not going well for you.
Reply
 
 Willy says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:00 pm
 
How come the Watchtower has never said one negative thing against Islam while other religions and non-religions boldly speak out? I think their cowards how they attack peaceful Christians, agnostics, atheists and other groups they feel ok to. Can you help me understand why they refuse to speak out against Islam or say anything, its really troubled me since 9-11-2001 because I have yet to read anything. Thank you!
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 Average Joe says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:05 pm
 
That’s a very good point Willy. Now you come to mention it, I can’t remember reading anything about Islam in the WTS publications either.
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 20, 2015 at 9:32 pm
 
I believe it’s because they have yet to penetrate that region of the world. They won’t risk alienating potential converts. Don’t think for one second that they haven’t taken note of all of the Syrian refugees. They’ll say it’s Jehovah opening up the work to reach those people. Without giving one thought to the idea that they are also BLAMING Jehovah for what’s happening to those people. Every tragedy has an angle that the witnesses exploit.
I also think it may be simple ignorance. They don’t know much about Islamic teachings besides some basics. Along with Buddhism,Hindu, and other Eastern religions. It’s easy to attack Christians because they can use the Bible to prove a point. With the others not so much.
However as you already mentioned fear is a big factor. It’s like the bully who knows who NOT to mess with.
Reply
 
 Willy says:

 November 20, 2015 at 11:49 pm
 
Chia and A.J,
Mr. Rutherford made deals with various Colonial Expansionist that gave the Bible Students rights to preach to everyone except Muslims. Can’t remember where I saw paperwork from the 1920-1940 time-line promising “Islam was off-limit” to prevent the Bible Students from having their heads on a pike.
Now the Watchtower is totally exposed as cowards, why don’t we start making this fact known around the Internet because many people don’t know how much the WTS love’s to hate Catholics, Protestants and peaceful Babylon the Great members(their term, not mine!).
Allow me some time to find those documents Rutherford signed promising “We will stay away from Muslims” in French Algeria and other Colonial Countries, thank you for wonderful responses!
Reply
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 21, 2015 at 2:34 am
 
Yes, I agree with Average Joe, Willy, they never did have much to say about Muslims did they? Yet, ISIS hates Christians. Surely, if the JW’s were getting bright light on the scriptures they would be able to identify these times. This is something significant surely, yet they I would imagine are saying the same old same old “Trust in Jehovah”.
Christians from what I am reading and from conversations of people of various Christian faiths are all talking about is this hatred for Christians we are seeing. I mean Christians are saying now about with the laws on homosexuality being passed in the US that it affects some very badly. People have lost businesses over it and gone to gaol over it. Does the Watchtower care? No way. They don’t give a you know what about people because they will not admit that anyone other than themselves is a Christian.
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 Willy says:

 November 24, 2015 at 5:09 pm
 
ISIS has made a deal with the Watchtower Leaders, in ancient Islam during the fake “Age of Enlightenment” Sam Harris debunks, the Islamic Empire needed janitors, washers, septic cleaners, jobs from “Slum Dog Millionaire””.
As long as the Watchtower keeps their mouths shut, ISIS will allow the Watchtower and her people the right to perform jobs Muslims can’t even do using their left hands.
When this happen’s all the Witnesses will be thanking the Governing Body for their protection while the Governing Body keep on living in better apartments, having other Witnesses take their sewage and clean up all the nasties from their homes! Its a great deal, the Faithful Slave once again is taking care of all the troops!
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 peggy says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:16 pm
 
Willy, Very good point about the WT and Islam. I have never read a thing denouncing that religion like they have with every other church in Christendom, and Judaism. They probably are afraid. Allah will trump Yahweh.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 20, 2015 at 4:59 pm
 
I learned many years ago that the witness organization and loyalty to the governing body trumps all. Their message is clear “Nothing is more important than the witness religion and being loyal to the religion is first and foremost”.
Unfortunately people will discard human compassion and all reasoning to give their loyalty to a group of old men who live sheltered lives and seem to have no clue and who want to have no clue as to what life is really all about.
Reply
 
 
 Paul Small says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:07 pm
 
I totally agree it is indifference .I remember the book study on the Tuesday evening of 9/11, an elders wife was at the book study I was taking her husband was away and she just poo pooed the situation in New York, no feeling whatsoever.I really told her off in front of the group and it shocked some who where there but I was furious at the callous lack of love. She still is a fool.
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 peggy says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:23 pm
 
On various occasions of tragedy JW’s will only sympathize if it involves their own. A earthquake strikes killing thousands. BUT, they will say how sad it is that like 10 JW’s died It makes me sick. I say what about all the other lives lost. Indifference makes them say, well, they may get a resurrection.
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 Tara says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:39 pm
 
I didn’t change my picture on FB. I wanted to but I knew there would be hell to pay from the cong. I didn’t see it as nationalistic, I saw it as a way for fellow humans around the world to unit in their grief of what happened. It was a sign of solidarity from one human to another. It could have been any flag from any country that had been attacked. It was a symbol of people standing shoulder to shoulder with one another….. I was hurting about the whole thing but there was no way I could express this to another witness and not feel worried they would ‘report’ me…. how utterly wrong is that. So I did what I felt was right by me. I post a song from Les Mis. ‘Do you hear the people sing? Singing a song of angry men…’ It was my way of showing I wanted to be heard. Yes, maybe it was a chickens way out but I gave what I could and it came from the heart.
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 Bad Penny says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:49 pm
 
James – Excellent article…
As you say that comment from the bethelite, ‘Let the dead bury their dead’ just proves the lack of compassion that some brothers show.
 It brought to mind the time I and my husband attended the funeral of a disfellowshipped brother. He had been such a lovely, warm hearted individual who had brought joy and laughter to many in the congregation. Yes, he fell into temptation and was disfellowshipped, but when you die aren’t you supposed to have paid for your ‘sin’.
There were just twelve sad little faces at the funeral service. It was heartbreaking to see.
 No other JWs attended, or sent a single flower or message of condolence.
 Empathy? Compassion? Real love for fellow men?
 Actions speak louder than words.
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 Nullandvoidboy says:

 November 20, 2015 at 5:57 pm
 
These people have become numb….its a “natural” direction when you’re taught to ignore everyone who’s not part of the “club”, as an elder once said to me….I told him, in front of quite a few people, ” maybe I don’t want to be in the club?!”….It felt good to finally walk away from these automatons…. But before I did, while I was starting to wake up, I went to my family and said we need to contribute to the 9/11 victim fund the very next day….I live in NYC…the stupid comments my parents and my brother gave me…I stood there stunned, mouth wide open…when I recovered I said I contributed to that fund as it was the least I could do….you should have seen their stupid stunned looks, with mouths wide open…it felt really liberating.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 20, 2015 at 6:19 pm
 
Wait until they hear me sing Le Marseillais BAHAHAHAHA
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 20, 2015 at 8:55 pm
 
Vive la Tara!
Reply
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 20, 2015 at 8:50 pm
 
Great article, James. I’ve been following the attacks in Paris closely. I like that I can now feel better about myself during times like this. That is to say, I no longer stare at the TV screen salivating, desperately hoping that the horrific tragedy I’m watching is the beginning of the thing that’s going to solve all of MY problems. To instead feel a kinship and genuine empathy with other human beings is much more satisfying. And I’ve found that I much prefer the HOPE that things will get better in the world, rather than the alternative.
The anti-nationalism thing was such a tedious thing to live up to. One pet peeve (of many) on that front: I knew Witnesses (as we all did) who wouldn’t even stand up during the National Anthem at concerts and such. Don’t want to put your hand on your heart? Fine. Don’t want to sing along? Fine. But to sit there and look like your protesting the damn thing while everyone else is standing up was a bit much for me (and it was embarrassing to be with JWs who did that). And the exasperated groans by them because they felt so victimized, having to endure it all… Yeesh. Although I was a fairly puritanical Witness, that stuff would bug me.
But now, Vive la France! Vive la liberté! (physique et mentale)
Here’s a snippet from France that most here have likely seen, but if not, it is beautiful: https://youtu.be/VR1zjZ2Cyaw
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 November 20, 2015 at 9:56 pm
 
“I was a fairly puritanical witness”. Sounds like me. A swirly eyed fanatic ready to exact righteous indignation upon the wicked like phineas.
 I always felt bad when other witnesses wouldn’t even at the very least stand. Doesn’t Jehovah know what’s in your heart? It shows that many don’t really believe that. There HAS to be an outward show somehow. That validates their feelings.
 I remember a circuit overseer took a few young brothers out to Yankee stadium for a ballgame. We were fresh out of pioneer school so we KNEW exactly what the right course should be. When it came time for the national anthem us four righteous youngsters were ready to stand our ground ala Daniel and the three Hebrews. The first one to stand up was the C.O. We were shocked. He said ” there’s no need to draw attention to yourself. It’s okay to be respectful during these”. Some are more reasonable than others. I think the majority all lean one way though.
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 Meredith J says:

 November 21, 2015 at 2:18 am
 
Priceless. I saw that the other night. The kid’s got it right. He’s got a good dad.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 21, 2015 at 1:28 pm
 
@JB
“I no longer stare at the TV screen salivating, desperately hoping that the horrific tragedy I’m watching is the beginning of the thing that’s going to solve all of MY problems. To instead feel a kinship and genuine empathy with other human beings is much more satisfying.”
I have made a similar shift in my perspective, but until I read your post I did not fully appreciate the changes I have made in this regard. Thanks for this sentiment.
WS
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 JWChange says:

 November 20, 2015 at 11:29 pm
 
Very well written article James. Criticism among JWs in showing solidarity with French people in this situation (using the symbol of the French flag) is absurd. If there was a fire that resulted in a local school burning down causing loss of life, JWs who had kids there, would unlikely be criticized for showing the school emblem (or its coat of arms or ‘colors’) on their FB page. Same would apply if a plane crash killed a local college sports team that a JW family supported. Love and compassion should trump Pharisaical pettiness.
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 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 20, 2015 at 11:50 pm
 
Very good article James!
 Thank you.Reflects on need of compassion and expose indifference in its bad.However the things around this F Flag issue are more complex in nature.The world events promoted by main stream media news and consequent reaction and social behavior of targeted audience of such events.that the reason why its affecting and spreading masses ,JW community included.Therefore from this point of view it’s preferential and bias or nationalist in a way.
 Why we don’t discussing same phenomena of JW or ex.JW or shoving their sympathy for events like terrorist attacks in Lebanon just few days prior Paris,or crash of Russian airliner in Egypt, or Indonesia forest fire which is label by some as crime against humanity….how many of us or you put Lebanese,Russian or Indonesian flags over you FB or Twitter or any other social media account to show your support or feelings for those ?
 So from this perspective I think it’s partial treatment or view of Paris attacks. Having to said that there is no wrong at all if someone done so out our pure compassion or sympathy not as social media trending fashion wave.Just because other did.
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 James Sequoia says:

 November 21, 2015 at 1:11 pm
 
I appreciate the kind comments. I agree there are many horrendous atrocities that don’t get much press and we should do our best to inform others about them. But if our aim is to raise more awareness of those issues we do our cause a disservice with the negative critique of what is merely a gesture of sympathy. I think it’s more productive to tap into their goodwill in hopes of moving some of us to act.
Reply
 
 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 21, 2015 at 3:15 pm
 
I feel we do understand each other well James.
 Your point is well made.I do fully realize that single article can’t cover all aspects of any matter.Therefore some journalist choose to write series of articles to elaborate on the matter in more deeper way although even this is not enough sometimes.In cases like this when single column is wrote and point is well made like yours participant of following discussion can bring other aspect of the matter to the fore which was also my intention.
 If this is made well it contributes to the quality of discussion.
 However what is interesting to observe even under this topic it’s how the option of someones change in their essence based on their current views vs previous views.
 What worry me in particular is how somebody can change from “antiwar kind a pacifist or Christian or JW ” to ex.JW or or ex. Christan who is at present “supporting our troops” of any country by expressing their admiration to great military soldiers for instance.
 I do not understand how such change of option can contribute to love and world peace thus better world.Is this a change to better ? Is this what we are looking for in our personal life journeys and our personal development.
 I do respect choice of this individuals to change their religion and became whatever they want but I will never understand those who want to now achieve peace and love by their “new adopted views” after they left “the cult of JW or any religion” by supporting or respecting war culture of military & weapons whether they are world intellectuals,politicians,social activist,religious leaders,or participants of any internet or other discussions.
 I know that there are many in this world who believe that if both of us have have gun aiming on each other this is the balance this means peace.
 Not for me.
 thanks for your peace,love and compassion promoting article once again,we have never enough of these!
 Live for love not for war !
 The future of humanity is based only on love not war.
 peace to all
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 21, 2015 at 2:12 am
 
Thank you James for a wonderful article. Who could forget that day of 9/11? It’s branded on everyones’ brain forever. What you described comes as no surprise from the Bethel brother. I remembered wondering at the time, how close it was to Brooklyn Bethel, and what they were doing if anything about it. We later heard a story about how Bethel gave the emergency crews some tools to help out. Of course they would have offered no manpower I suspect to help, even though there would have been hundreds of volunteer staff at the time not far from the towers.
For a long time now I have been shying away when it comes to community work. That is a legacy of being involved with the Watchtower. They were never big on communal charity. But lately, I have been rethinking this. There is a church in the next town where they have asked for volunteers to come in one day per week to help out in the kitchen as they try on that one day to provide a full meal to anyone who needs it.
Apparently, it’s volunteers who make the world go round so they say. I just wish I had been able to get into it instead of devoting myself to all those hours of preaching work when I was younger and more able bodied.
By the way, I’ve been looking up a little of bible prophecy and the events taking place at the moment are very interesting. If any are still interested in bible prophecy then check this out (could be right, could be wrong, but we don’t have to give up our charitable works for the sake of preaching. That’s just stupid.)http://www.trackingbibleprophecy.org/gog_magog.php
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 21, 2015 at 3:07 pm
 
Meredith J, I went to that link and had a severe BS flashback! Of course, by “BS” I mean “Book Study”. It seemed eerily similar to the same verse-by-verse, purely-speculative-yet-highly-suggestive approach that the Org often takes on matters of prophecy. I know you qualified it with “could be right, could be wrong”, but I’d hate to think of folks replacing the convoluted interpretations of a cult with those from another source that would be equally as unable to verify the accuracy of its own interpretations.
But, I know your faith isn’t centered around whether or not a second-in-command of Russia might be Gog of Magog, and it’s just a topic of interest. So please take this comment as light and respectful as intended –and unrelated to the atheism/faith issue.
Reply
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 21, 2015 at 3:45 am
 
I will never forget the morning when the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed. I ran upstairs to wake up my husband because I thought it was the beginning of Armageddon. I was shocked and horrified but his reaction was that those buildings and the people who worked in those buildings, deserved to be destroyed because it was those buildings and the people who worked in those buildings who were the ones that the world deservedly hated because it was those people who sent all the American jobs overseas. He even was so proud of himself for coming to that conclusion that at work, he would tell the other people he worked with what he thought of it. I think that most everybody he said that to, thought he was crazy.
I don’t think any other Witnesses thought like my husband did, but what they did say was stuff like “I hope none of our brothers and sisters were killed in those towers.” That is always the reaction when it comes to any disaster anywhere in the world, when it comes to Witnesses, is that they only care about the brothers and sisters, whereas most “normal” feeling people care about “all” of the victims, regardless of what religion they are.
We were always given the illustration of emptying the oceans with a teaspoon when it comes to fixing the world’s problems. That was to numb us to it so we would not be affected and put our hope in the “new world” instead and it’s promises through “placing” literature with our neighbors.
That was our “charity”.
Reply
 
 
 Edward D'Agostino says:

 November 21, 2015 at 5:00 am
 
France and the europeans brought this horrible tragedy against themselves. Europe is anti-Jews and progressive leftists. They keep allowing “refugees” in, got what they deserved.


Reply
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 November 21, 2015 at 6:06 am
 
Thank you Lloyd.
It really makes me angry when I think back to when I first met the witnesses. I was 20, at uni, and already an active member of World Vision, Amnesty International and Greenpeace – all worthy causes I believe in and had planned to spend my life involved in one way or another. By the age of 24 I had quit them all (including uni) and got baptised believing “this generation” was about to see a full and comprehensive solution to all these problems and more.
I’m proud to say that 20 years on I have successfully faded this year and recently pledged money to Save the Children and UNHCR. Next year I plan to go back to uni to finish the qualifications I surrendered 20 years ago, and relaunch the career I had planned back then; working with real people on real issues to try and make the world a better place for all (rather than wasting my life on watchtower fantasies.) It also solves one of the problems I’ve had to deal with this year; what do I teach my kids now? Next year intend to get them involved as much as possible with charitable organisations – to help them get a different perspective on life and the world we live in and hopefully inspire them to engage in worthwhile, genuinely Christian, good works.
It also saddens me to think that most JWs Watching these events in Paris are thinking about their own salvation rather than the genuine human tragedy here; hoping that this is the lead up to the UN “turning on false religion” and precipitating the eternal destruction of 8,000,000,000 people at Armageddon so they can see an end to their own problems and start building that big house in paradise. I guess we all want an end to all the problems and to see world peace, but we need a proper perspective, and the more we can personally do to contribute to real solutions the better.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 21, 2015 at 8:22 am
 
‘hoping that this is the lead up to the UN “turning on false religion” and precipitating the eternal destruction of 8,000,000,000 people at Armageddon so they can see an end to their own problems and start building that big house in paradise’
Oh Eric you hit this one on the nail. It’s all about ‘me’. One ‘sister’ said to me the other day… ‘well we can hold our heads up…’ I wanted to smack her across the head. What a selfish way to look at the mass murder of billions of people.
Is this any better than the ISIS attitude? Or the Nazi cleansing?
Reply
 
 
 Da' says:

 November 21, 2015 at 8:28 am
 
Full disclosure .. im not a fan of FB nor do I have a profile(why would I unnecessarily invite strangers into my life or worse allow anyone to comment about it on the internet?) so im wondering who is this poster (Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses WORLDWIDE) and is he/she actually speaking (or thinking)on behalf of
 all JW worldwide ? Do all JW’s really live their lives according to what the poster dictates? I found a few interesting things.. other than the reference to Jesus , not one scripture to support the thoughts. Then, after saying we are all free moral agents, the decision was made for all free moral agents …. no, not right to include the French flag in ones profile. Easy come , easy go! Thanks for the lesson in what Jesus NEVER did, how about what Jesus ALWAYS did. How long before we hear experiences and see pics in the Watchtower of how the local French congregations (under the direction of GB) aided in the tragedy. and rightfully so ! Don’t rain on the GB’s parade
Reply
 
 
 Clay says:

 November 21, 2015 at 9:33 am
 
Little off topic but and I’m sure it’s been said before. But at meetings out in service the always talk about how other churches bash them but in the talks given they spend a lot of time bashing all Christain churches.
Reply
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 21, 2015 at 10:04 am
 
A very well written and well thought-out article. This topic is near and dear to me: part of what first lead to my awakening from this cult was the fact that they disparaged any efforts that were humanitarian in nature. The concept of sitting back and waiting for God to fix everything while millions suffered seemed counter-intuitive to the Christian philosophy – James 2:15, 16: “If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it?” Isn’t this the same as handing out Watchtowers to those in need and telling them to ‘have a nice day’?
One thing that helped me in this regard is that about 3 years prior to my awaking, I got involved with a professional organization that also did community outreach projects. When I saw the effort and time that they put into these projects, I began to realize that they provided a much better service to their fellowman than the JW’s did. Took some time, but I began to see more value in this type of work, than waking people up on Saturday mornings only to tell them that they needed to change their religion or die at Armageddon (not that we used those words, but let’s face it, that was the actual message.)
Another thing that helped was that I actually got to know my “return visits” as people. I don’t think I made many (if any) converts, but I got to know them and to appreciate that their thoughts and opinions were just as valid as mine. My visits became less about converting them and more about just getting to know them and helping each other gain perspective on life. I started seeing them as real people, not just numbers on a monthly report. I developed a very close friendship with one of my former RV’s and at the time of my awakening he was able to provide much support and act as a sounding board in regard to the decisions I had to make.
Well, at the risk of rambling on I’ll wrap this up. Once again excellent article – I wish I could get more JW’s to open up their eyes to information like this.
WS
Reply
 
 Man from the lions pit says:

 November 21, 2015 at 10:43 pm
 
Very nice personal experience-perspective and story WS.Thanks for sharing & best wishes !
Reply
 
 
 
 JB says:

 November 21, 2015 at 3:53 pm
 
So I know this is not directly related, but in the context of people acting inhuman in the name of religion, such as the Paris attacks by Islamic State and the indifference of Jehovah’s Witnesses, here I think is a petition worth supporting and sharing on Facebook/Twitter etc. http://wh.gov/iVVIt
Reply
 
 
 Lesley says:

 November 22, 2015 at 12:53 am
 
I live in the UK and was told by an active JW friend (with great pride) that the Brooklyn staff were outside just after the twin towers came down handing out blankets to those fleeing across the bridge. Does anyone know if this is true??
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 November 22, 2015 at 11:56 am
 
I had a family member who was there on 9/11, not sure about blankets (as it was a warm day), but someone did organize a group to hand out water to those who fled, on foot, across the Brooklyn Bridge.
 More ‘Points for Paradise’. Which reminds me of the question raised by the WT Conductor a few weeks ago..(the type usually aimed at children, but open to everyone on this occasion) “what job do you want to have in Paradise?”
There were the one’s you’d expect. Bob the Builder, Teresa the Teacher, Zoe the Zoologist, …funny… no one wanted to be Gavin the Grave Digger or Beatrice the Baby Burier…???…
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 November 22, 2015 at 1:05 pm
 
Thinking about upcoming Thanksgiving Holiday -US-(bear with me) and about T3’s comments/talk on the survivors burying the masses of dead after Armageddon. A teaching we JW’s parroted throughout the years, in one form or another….i.e. WT 1953 Pg 606 PP 40-41-“40 Even the once-terrified birds and beasts of the field will share in the benefits of his triumph. Jehovah bids his prophet to invite those long-mistreated birds and beasts to feast upon His great sacrifice, his slaughter of all his foes, whose carcasses will lie strewn upon the ground like fertiLIZER…..41)But what about the bones of Gog’s slain hordes? Will they be left to pollute the soil of the “new earth”? No; but Jehovah will assign them a burial place..”
In public school (US) we were taught that the Pilgrims survived because the Indians taught them to plant a dead fish with their crops…as fertiLIZER.. a bounty resulted and thus ‘Thanksgiving’ was born. So, no doubt those survivors of Armageddon, PP 39 – “(They) will glory in his triumph by Jesus Christ.”..
Can you see, with your minds eye, the anecdotal conversations of joy and celebration?
“John, how did you raise such a large pumpkins?” John; “Oh, what a blessing…I buried a couple hundred ‘lizers’ there under the pumpkin patch!…Praise the GB for giving me this assignment!” –
“Mary, how do you raise such beautiful orchids in these pots?” Mary; “Don’t tell anyone else, my secret….I put a baby ‘lizer’ at the bottom of each pot! Glory to the GB, who allow me the time for my green thumb hobby!”
A new Thanksgiving Holiday, for the New World, will be born!
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:20 am
 
@RetiredLE
You’re way too funny, thanks for the laugh
Reply
 
 RetiredLE says:

 November 23, 2015 at 7:43 pm
 
“There’s a hole in your head, dear ‘lizer’ dear ‘lizer’ there’s a lightning bolt hole in your head, dear ‘lizer’ a hole” …..or was that from a 60# hail stone??? “What da ya thank Bro. Lemuel?”

 
 
 RetiredLE says:

 November 23, 2015 at 7:54 pm
 
Bro. Lemuel….”well, I thank I dun got repented from 8 chal molastatons to make it here az an postus Rmagetton Elter…..an that there ‘lizer’ surez got a purdy mouth…”

 
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 9:24 pm
 
On a sadder note:
Non-JWs = bird food, fertilizer
if they do not accept JW doctrine and just so that the JWs can live forever on their fantasy paradise earth.
“what job do you want to have in Paradise?..… no one wanted to be Gavin the Grave Digger or Beatrice the Baby Burier…???…”
Which is why the WT is careful to emphasize the “joyful” aspects of the work which they believe will need to be done to restore the earth to paradisaical conditions (whatever that is).
I personally would not be able to watch the carcasses of family and neighbours rot and be torn apart by vultures, I just wouldn’t be able to stomach that, it would definitely have a negative psychological effect on me.
What a stink, public health crisis and nightmare it will be for the JW Armageddon survivors in Asia. According to WT 2014 statistics, 99.98% of Asia’s population are not JWshttp://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2015-yearbook/preaching-and-teaching/asia-and-middle-east/
703,271 JWs will witness the carcasses of 4,315,055,739 non-JWs rot, be torn apart by vultures and mauled by beasts. Then apparently they will thereafter have to bury the remains – each JW will have to bury 6,136 rotting, mauled carcasses. If they are not psychologically devastated by all of this, they are not human.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 22, 2015 at 3:25 am
 
I put the flag on my page and was bombarded with a load of judgmental texts etc from my ‘friends’…. I took it off as Im a slow fader and didnt want to face the consequences…. I instead put up a message of sympathy …. it was the least I could do…. some of my witness aquantances put up messages…’we need the end to come quickly etc etc’… what?… so we can watch 8 billion men,women and children die instead…what mentality is this?…. oh wait…I know …. that used to be me.
 I also wonder if the sign…’having no natural affection’ has ever been more manifest than it is amongst some in the congregations of jw’s…. Im getting away as fast as I safely can…. Je Suis Paris.
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 22, 2015 at 3:49 am
 
@Idontknowwhattodo, I was so sick and tired of hearing how “we need the end” so many times. It was always a conversation stopper every time a person would start to say something they didn’t like or a natural disaster.
When it comes to the Paris attack and people say that, it’s the same as saying that when there is a racoon in the hen house, God’s answer is burn the hen house down. That is about as much sense that comment makes to me.
Reply
 
 
 
 Koos says:

 November 22, 2015 at 9:23 am
 
Julie and Dee, well said.
 Jehovah’s Witnesses and Muslims have a lot in common:
 No trinity, Jezus is no deity.
 Jezus was a prophet.
 Jezus was not crucified.
 Jezus was not physically resurrected.
 It is not allowed to worship Jezus.
 Satan and demons (Djinns) exist.
 Satan doesn’t really care what one believes as long as it’s not the truth.
 Day of judgement; the Mahdi and Isa, Islam Jezus, will destroy all infidels. Jezus will defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal (the Antichrist).
 Muslims and JW’s hate Jews, Christians, homo’s, infidels and apostates.
 Call themselves brothers and sisters.
 Women are submissive.
 Clothing and appearance regulations, chaperone.
 They believe that it is allowed to deny faith under compulsion, threat, and fear of death, it is called taqiya, for jw see theological warfare.
 Jw’s have to put Jehovah’s laws first. Sharia, Islamic law, deals with all aspects of day-to-day life, sounds familiar?
 Anti-Semitic; for jw see Jwfacts.com: Letter to Hitler & Declaration of Facts
 There is no honorable way to leave the faith or idiology
Note: One may find differences between Sunni and Shia Islam
Reply
 
 
 Da' says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:02 am
 
@leslie
 Blankets for what ? anyone exiting from downtown Manhattan in early September 2001 , did not need a blanket ! I personally know two (2) persons trying to exit that tragedy and rest assured they weren’t looking for a blanket ! While I can say its certainly a possibility that some would use the Brooklyn bridge to exit Manhattan , I would find it suspect that as those fleeing Manhattan would need a blanket as they found themselves in Brooklyn , steps away from Watchtower in the early parts of September when the weather is at lest 65 to 70 degrees
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:54 am
 
It’s funny in a lot of these posts I see such biased hatred for the JWs and it causes a lot of people to bend the truth. Granted there are some stupid pathetic people such as elders that say stupid things but it’s not just a JW only phenomenon. People everywhere are mean and judgemental. In my old congregation we had two people go to NY after September 11th to volunteer. And I heard of others too. And you can look up stories of Brooklyn Bethel helping out people that came there. I lived in Miami during hurricane Andrew and many many many times did we help out people that were not JWs with food, roofing etc….. So to say the JWs don’t help is just not true. Read some of the witness stories about Haiti and so on. It’s funny most of you say how bad and judgemental JWs are but you are doing the same thing. We all see what we want to see.
Reply
 
 yawn says:

 November 22, 2015 at 12:11 pm
 
Right. JW’s are “god’s representative organization on earth” until they get caught doing something bad, then it becomes “well, we’re imperfect, just like anyone else.” They set up a higher standard for themselves and then cry when people hold them to it. Well, you can’t have it both ways.
Yes, there are decent people in the organization. Just like there are decent people in every organization in the world. Two people going to volunteer does not constitute an organizational philosophy. The character of the organization is revealed just in the fact that the person who wanted to put up the flag colors felt they had to ask permission first, and that they could not make a decision based on their own conscience. THAT is the issue, not “good” or “bad” people.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 22, 2015 at 12:37 pm
 
Markie, most of us commenting here were JW’s, so that is so untrue that there are a lot of comments that are biased and show a hatred for JW’s. Can you be specific in what you are claiming? What comments here were “bending” the truth? Tell us what those comments were, please.
Comments such as yours are exactly what Watchtower claims all “apostates” are like and that is simply not true. That is a “lie” that Watchtower implants in the minds of the active Witnesses to make Witnesses “afraid” to examine their own religion and nobody should be “afraid” of examining their own religion up against the Bible.
We either are Witnesses right now, were Witnesses or have close friends and relatives who are still Witnesses so it would make no sense for us to be biased against JW’s as a whole and hate them.
It is the Governing Body that we are biased against, not the rank and file and I for one, really do hate the Governing Body. I hate the Governing Body for their lies and cover ups and their policy of shunning those of us who want to leave the Organization and warn our friends and relatives. They don’t care if we leave. They just can’t stand the idea that we would take our brothers and sisters with us. That they can’t stand and they will do anything they can to stop us.
As long as you are standing up for the Watchtower Organization, can you prove that God is backing them with all their false prophecies and pharisaical laws and regulations?
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:24 pm
 
In your own words you are saying your biased due to your hatred of the GB. So you said it yourself. When your biased your views are inherently not truthful. I for one think the GB are a bunch of self righteous fat men taking advantage of the rank and file. But I am sure a few of them really want to help their fellow man. And they do what they think is best pointing to God’s kingdom. Sorry you have been hurt by people. I wish I could help people who have been hurt by fellow JWs. Just like in any organization there are some bad people filled with hate and so judgemental they want to prove themselves at the expense of their fellow man. Can I prove god is backing the Gb? No I can not. But who can prove that any religion is God’s representative on earth. I hope if there is a god out there and that he is bigger then all of us and one day will fix all the wrongs on the earth.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:45 am
 
Markie, you have lost faith in the Governing Body. These men make the policies that have caused so much damage to people. Most people haven’t left because of the lack of love of Witnesses, although there would be nothing wrong with that if as a group they do not measure up to the standards of real Christians. Markie it is their policies that are wrong. The policies like not reporting pedophiles and creating the ‘pedophile paradise’ and treating victims as sinners is disgusting and evil. How can you honestly say that you support such a bad religious group that literally plays God and splits up families. You need to do more research mate.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:45 am
 
See that is where you are wrong. You said I lost faith in the GB. I listen to the bible and never had faith in the GB. The bible tells us not to have faith in man. Only god. The GB is just a bunch of schmucks like the rest of us. Never let a fellow human control your life. Pedophile paradise? I do think now they encourage reporting it. The problem arose because JWs are too trusting and never thought pedophiles could be in our ranks. Which of couse they can. And some of them my have power to influence others in the organization so as to keep it swept under the rug. Which of course is clearly wrong. And attorneys have found the organization to have deep pockets so now it is making the news. I always laugh when the Watchtower mentions the pedophile priests. But faith in the GB? No, never!

 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:46 am
 
Markie, you said that you “hope” that “if” there is a god out there that he is bigger than all of us and one day will fix all the wrongs on the earth.
You see “hope” and faith are different. If you “hope” there is a god, then you don’t have faith in God. Having faith in somebody is knowing that person personally such as a friend or mate and you know them day to day well enough and you can personally have faith in that person that they will not betray you.
Even then, as long as you don’t live in that person’s body, you can only “hope” they won’t betray you. The only one you can truly have faith in is yourself. If you know yourself, you will know if you will betray a friend of yours. Do you see what I am getting at? If you own a car and that car always starts up in the morning, then you can “faith” in that car that it will start up in the morning.
As long as I was a Witness, I was to be made ashamed, if I didn’t have “faith” in God’s promise for the new world. Faith according to the Bible is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. So what we all have and had was a “hope” for the new world but we were led to believe that we had to have “faith” in the new world and we put all our one and only life on hold, promoting that hope and were made to feel ashamed if we didn’t have “faith” in that new world and expressed any doubts about what the Bible actually said about it.
All religions control people, either through the Bible or other holy books but people don’t need those holy books to tell them right from wrong. People are born with an innate sense of right and wrong and they pass that down to their children.
Just because a person goes to a church or doesn’t go to a church, doesn’t make them good or bad. People can be bad and go to church too. Everybody who belongs to a religion, thinks they have the “truth”. Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t the only ones who think they have the “truth”.
Most people who belong to their religion don’t think that their leaders would deliberately lie to them and Jehovah’s Witnesses are the same. I never thought that the Governing Body would deliberately lie to us but I found out that that they do deliberately lie to us about a whole bunch of things. That is when I decided that I don’t want anything to do with the “truth” anymore. I can’t stand behind and promote liars and neither should you.
Just because Witnesses have a sense of community in the congregations, should not be the reason to be a Witness. You need to know that what you are believing in and promoting from door to door is the honest to God truth and nothing but the truth. If you can’t do that, then you are no different than what the Bible says is false religion and will be destroyed along with all the other false religions at Armageddon, if you believe in Armageddon.
You need to know that what you have as your religion is true according to the Bible and not go along with it just to belong to a religion, if you really believe in the Bible.
A person needs to have a clean conscience. If you can’t prove that you have the “truth” and nothing but the “truth”, then you are promoting something you don’t know what it even is.
You need to examine your religion according to the Bible, just as Witnesses ask of those they study with to do with their religion.
We should not be afraid to examine our religion but all Witnesses are barred from examining their own religion, on the threat of expulsion and shunning.
Any religion that prohibits their members from examining their own religion has to be a cult and if it’s a cult, you are wasting the one and only life you have on it. That is why it is so important for you to not be afraid to examine the JW religion up against what the Bible actually does say.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:56 am
 
Please don’t tell me what to do and I won’t tell you what to do. Your hatred is quite apparent. What have you in your opinion found to be the truth? All religion is flawed. I would never be so judgemental like you to say I found the truth. I don’t think humans can find the truth. I actually don’t use that word to describe myself as a witness. Hope you can get over the hatred that is consuming you.

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 23, 2015 at 5:54 pm
 
Well, good on you Markie. You don’t know it yet, but you are half way there. I am so glad that you have an opinion because that is what so few have.

 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:03 pm
 
But please Markie, please don’t be rude on here. The people here have been through a lot and do not need to be spoken down to. People like Caroline have had a tough life and do not deserve such harsh words. Just please consider this before you have a go at people. They are only trying to help you to see the truth.

 
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:14 pm
 
@Markie,
“I would never be so judgemental like you to say I found the truth. I don’t think humans can find the truth. I actually don’t use that word to describe myself as a witness”.
Can you also tell this to your GB, elders, CO and every single JW that you know, as well as the non-JWs whom you witness to or is it that you can only find the bravery to state these things anonymously on this site?
“JWs are too trusting and never thought pedophiles could be in our ranks. Which of couse they can” – so the GB lied again, the JW religion is not the spiritual paradise that they make it out to be.
“And attorneys have found the organization to have deep pockets so now it is making the news.”
Do you think that the child molestation victims deserve to be compensated? If so, how?

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 24, 2015 at 4:21 am
 
Markie, I don’t have hatred “consuming” me like you said.
 Since I stopped going to the meetings, I am the happiest I have been in 50 years. If you are happy being a Witness, then be happy being a Witness. Nobody is trying to take that away from you and if you have clean conscience protecting an organization that protects pedophiles, then have a clean conscience.
As for me, I can’t do that. That sure doesn’t mean that I have any malice towards the rank and file. The rank and file are being kept in the dark as far as what is really going on at the headquarters of the Watchtower and how they protect thousands and thousands of pedophiles and rapists.
The rank and file are victims, just as I was a victim and just as a lot of members of my family are victims and don’t realize it.
Did you realize that the Society is deliberately lying about 607? What do you think about that lie? All of the publications would have to be destroyed and the religion would have to start over from scratch if they owned up to 607. How can you go to meetings and service and raise your hand and answer up at the meetings, knowing that the Society won’t tell the truth about 607?

 
 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 22, 2015 at 1:05 pm
 
Markie,
Yes, there are people in the JW organization who do try to help out when there are disasters. However, they are the minority for sure. Imagine, telling your CO that you can’t auxiliary pioneer during the memorial season because you are volunteering at a soup kitchen. What reaction would you expect?
On the whole the organization deters participation in community outreach programs or even making charitable donations to them. Other organizations do a lot more to help people with their practical needs and it’s not dependent on their religious affiliation or whether they are “interested.”
But the issue here is not whether to volunteer or not to volunteer. It is the unhealthy level of control the organization exerts over its members. Why should it be an issue if someone wants to display an image of the French flag on Facebook to show compassion for the victims of this tragedy? The fact that rules not found in scripture are being made in this regard is part of the problem.
Steve Hassan, the leading authority on cult mind control, offers the BITE model on ways that cults try to control: Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotion. In all these areas the organization seeks to exert control and many of us who post comments suffered years of this level of control. That’s what we are speaking out against, not specific individuals who may or may not participate in charitable activities.
WS
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 22, 2015 at 9:59 pm
 
See that’s where people like you go wrong. Why would I “go tell my CO” what I was going to do. It sounds like a lot of people on this website give too much control to the elders, CO, GB etc…. They are just imperfect men. I do exactly what I want. For example I have a JD and llm in taxation. None of any ones busines! I have a child starting law school too and another one finishing his bachelor’s degree and going on to get a masters. I would never shun my family because of them. People need to do what’s best for themselves. In this “time of the end” the GB are taking care of themselves. Beautiful new digs in Warick etc…. I’ll be dammed if spent my life as a window washer or janitor. No religion is perfect, they all have stupid things in them. Born again Christian think if you don’t accept Jesus your going to burn in hell. Catholic priest think you need to pay them or your going to be in purgatory etc….. I have always wondered how humble Christ like men could raise through the ranks and become members of the GB. It’s because they are not humble. Moral of the story is to do what’s best for you. Don’t let yourself be controlled.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:22 pm
 
Markie,
 You have me a bit curious, I can’t help but ask:
– what do you personally believe is the truth?
– why are you in the JW religion?
– do you preach to non-JWs, if you do, what do you tell them?
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:36 pm
 
I personally believe if there is a god out there he is bigger then all of us and only he can judge us. Thought that as a child at the kingdom hall. Why would he kill the whole world and not us. Now as I get older I wonder how long does God need these system of things to go on to vindicate his name.
I go to the meetings to try and help those that are being hurt by the ocasional self- righteous elder, elderette, co etc…
When I go from door to door I offer the magazines and tell them there maybe something in the magazine that they might find interesting and if they would like to read it please take it.

 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:19 am
 
Markie, you said you have a JD and a lim in taxation. What are those things you are talking about? What education have you had? What country are you from? Thanks
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 1:52 pm
 
You don’t know what a JD is?

 
 
 Caroline says:

 November 25, 2015 at 4:18 am
 
Markie, that is why I asked. No. What is a JD? The reason I asked is because I don’t have a degree and only graduated from high school, but the way you write and spell, makes me think you are not very well educated and may be faking everything you are saying here. All of us “real” Witnesses, can spot a fake real easy.

 
 
 Markie says:

 November 25, 2015 at 5:02 pm
 
I just thought you were kidding. A JD is a law degree. And yes I got my degrees while being a witness. I have my own small firm where I specialize in wills, estates and international taxation. Believe my it wasn’t fun going to the meetings with some brothers who wete after me and my brother because we were going to school. So I know what people go through at the kh. I one saw a 3 year old little girl whose parents were just comming back (who appeared to be drug abusers) tap the water fountain and the PO flick the little girls ear. He actually chased her down until he got it. Made the little girl cry. I wanted to beat him silly but of course I didnt. But my family and I took the little girl and her sisters new dollies and other toys and some food. That is why I still go to the meetings! It was horrible and mean. But in all fairness he did that to his own kids. Although that doesn’t make it right. I do feel bad for people that have been hurt or stumbled by some of the jerks that somehow think they are elders here to enforce gods will (their interpretation of it of course).

 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:01 am
 
Markie,
Glad to hear that you limit the amount of control the organization has over you. That is difficult for many when they are constantly reminded at meetings and in the literature that they are supposed to report everything they hear to the elders.
This constant indoctrination is consistent with the brain washing techniques used in mind control cults. It seems like you may be less effected by it, but others are not so fortunate, especially those of us who were immersed in it from infancy. Keep in mind that everyone is different and responds to undue influence differently.
You mention other religions that may also have issues with their teachings. That’s true of course. But why do we need to belong to any of them? Being a true follower of Christ does not require membership in a large organization – ‘if there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name I am with them.’
The question I have is that if you don’t believe many of the teachings of the GB, why stay with it and continue to promote it from door to door? What is the hold they have on you? Surely you must know that to disagree even a little with the GB is to be labeled an apostate? Maybe you are lucky enough to belong to a congregation where they are not as strict. That is not the norm. Look beyond your own personal experience and you will find a lot of people being controlled and hurt by this organization.
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 22, 2015 at 8:39 pm
 
Markie, it seems that you’re mainly wanting to make the point that sometimes, in a comment, you see the JW organization–including ALL of its members–painted in a negative way with too broad of a brush. That does happen from time to time. (Could I give some specific examples? Yes but, although I am a little dumb, I’m not dumb enough to do THAT.)
I’m not sure why it happens, but I think it sometimes has to do with how badly affected we ourselves have been by the Org. Understandably, an especially painful personal experience as a JW can occasionally manifest itself in the form of a comment that relies on the “nuclear option” rather than a pinpoint strike.
Whatever the reason though, it’s a good idea to remember that most everyone here really does hope that the genuinely goodhearted and well-intentioned people in the Org (however many–or few–there may be) find their way to freedom, far from the grasp of this life-ruining cult.
So, although occasionally one can find a comment here that’s more broadly judgmental than is technically warranted, it shouldn’t be mistaken for the same type of attitude found in the many (but not all) JWs out there who wholeheartedly subscribe to the mercilessly judgmental doctrine of the Org.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 22, 2015 at 10:50 pm
 
Sorry for all the hurt people have had to endure. The broad brush of negativity happens a lot more then time to time. Positive things about the organization are never mentioned here. Good news doesn’t sell. You have to realize most people that come to this site have been hurt or stumbled or they wouldn’t be here. You yourself are calling it a life-ruining cult. Maybe in your experience but I am sure there are millions that feel otherwise. And I for one see a lot of imperfection in the organization too. But which one is perfect. To me your as judgemental as you say the JWs are. But I am sorry that things did not go well for you.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:07 am
 
Markie, to your main complaint, why would a JW cult education/recovery site be a place where you would hope to hear praise directed toward that cult and its members?
The JW religion meets the Bible’s own definition of a false prophet, and has been quite prolific with those false prophecies since its very beginning.
You can attribute as many faults as you want to “no religion being perfect”, but there is no getting around the fact that the Bible itself would have you get the hell out of this profane religion and stay as far away from it as possible.
And if you’re not really a religious person, then LIFE itself is calling for you to disconnect from this cult and and stay as far away from it as possible.
On the other hand, if you’re like many here whose family would be destroyed if you left, then just be honest about being stuck in the thing, and quit bragging about not letting them tell you what to do, as if to say that there’s a way to be a Jehovah’s Witness on your own terms. You’re in a cult, and you’ve only succeeded in adding an additional layer of self-deception.
Reply
 
 Mike in kona says:

 November 24, 2015 at 8:05 pm
 
Amen

 
 
 Markie says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:40 pm
 
I am a witness on my own terms. Always have been always will be. Wasn’t really expecting kind words here. I just find the comments here are usually very biased, untruths nd mostly over exaggerations. People here are doing the same thing they say the wtbts is doing. Then they quote someone else’s opinion like it’s a fact. Like the so called ex-jws that are now self declared cult experts. Like the Bite acronym that so cult expert has come up with. Oh yeah that dude is really an expert. And please don’t tell me I am bragging, what to do etc… Aren’t you just some fustrated ex jw yourself?

 
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 26, 2015 at 5:36 pm
 
Markie, I’ve devoted too much real estate on this page to this exercise in futility. Let’s just move on.

 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:27 pm
 
@Markie,
“I would never be so judgemental like you to say I found the truth. I don’t think humans can find the truth. I actually don’t use that word to describe myself as a witness”.
Can you also tell this to your GB, elders, CO and every single JW that you know, as well as the non-JWs whom you witness to or is it that you can only find the bravery to state these things anonymously on this site?
“JWs are too trusting and never thought pedophiles could be in our ranks. Which of couse they can” – so the GB lied again, the JW religion is not the spiritual paradise that they make it out to be.
“And attorneys have found the organization to have deep pockets so now it is making the news.”
Do you think that the child molestation victims deserve to be compensated? If so, how?
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 November 26, 2015 at 8:22 am
 
@Markie:
I don’t want to debate with you as I feel this argumentation is reaching the point of futility. But for the sake of others reading along, I will comment on this statement:
“Like the Bite acronym that so cult expert has come up with. Oh yeah that dude is really an expert”
Your comment is argumentative and reveals that you have done little research into the topic of cult mind control. Steve Hassan IS an accepted authority on cult mind control. He is not an ex-JW or in any way related to this organization. In his original release of Combating Cult Mind Control, he does not even mention the JWs (the most recent edition has been updated to include them). He did not begin to research this group until he began to receive letters from former JWs who read that first book.
Markie, I encourage you to do some careful research into this organization and into cults in general (i.e. don’t rely solely on Watchtower sources). If you do so with an open mind you will be benefited.
WS

 
 
 
 Victor says:

 November 24, 2015 at 1:57 am
 
Positive or negative, perfect or imperfect…. really who cares? The real question is: the JWs have the “truth”? If “yes”, make sense to do all the stuff, meetings, door to door etc. If “no” or “i don’t know”….
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 questionall451 says:

 November 22, 2015 at 6:16 pm
 
This is something that has frustrated me for a long time. As a JW, I invested so much of my life in the concept that we don’t need to worry about any of those “worldly” things now because they will all be taken care of in a few short years. Now that 35 years have gone by, those things that we put on a back burner because Armageddon was coming are now staring us in the face.
Reply
 
 
 Elwin says:

 November 22, 2015 at 7:36 pm
 
Compare this:
“Denying the holiness of the Koran or the prophecies of Muhammad is straightforward apostasy. But Zarqawi and the state he spawned take the position that many other acts can remove a Muslim from Islam. These include, in certain cases, selling alcohol or drugs, wearing Western clothes or shaving one’s beard, voting in an election—even for a Muslim candidate—and being lax about calling other people apostates. Being a Shiite, as most Iraqi Arabs are, meets the standard as well, because the Islamic State regards Shiism as innovation, and to innovate on the Koran is to deny its initial perfection. (The Islamic State claims that common Shiite practices, such as worship at the graves of imams and public self-flagellation, have no basis in the Koran or in the example of the Prophet.) That means roughly 200 million Shia are marked for death. So too are the heads of state of every Muslim country, who have elevated man-made law above Sharia by running for office or enforcing laws not made by God.”http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
IS—Denying the holiness of the Koran or the prophecies of Muhammad is straightforward apostasy.
 WTS—Denying the holiness of the Bible or the prophecies is straightforward apostasy.
 IS—Zarqawi and the state he spawned take the position that many other acts can remove a Muslim from Islam. These include, in certain cases,
 WTS—JWs and the WTS organisation it spawned take the position that many other acts can remove a Christian from God’s congregation. These include, in certain cases,
 IS—selling alcohol or drugs
 WTS—selling drugs or eating/receiving/giving blood
 IS—wearing Western clothes
 WTS—wearing modern Western clothes
 IS—shaving one’s beard
 WTS—growing one’s beard
 IS—voting in an election—even for a Muslim candidate
 WTS—voting in an election—even for a Christian candidate
 IS—being lax about calling other people apostates
 WTS—being lax about calling other people apostates
 IS—being a Shiite, as most Iraqi Arabs are, meets the standard as well, because the Islamic State regards Shiism as innovation
 WTS—being a Catholic or Protestant as most Christians are, meets the standard as well, because the WTS regards them as innovation [not original Christianity]
 IS—to innovate on the Koran is to deny its initial perfection. (The Islamic State claims that common Shiite practices, such as worship at the graves of imams and public self-flagellation, have no basis in the Koran or in the example of the Prophet.)
 WTS—to innovate on the Bible is to deny its initial perfection. (The WTS claims that common Christian practices, such as worship at the graves of Saints and public self-flagellation, have no basis in the Bible or in the example of Jesus.)
 IS—That means roughly 200 million Shia are marked for death.
 WTS—That means roughly 7 billion people are marked for death.
 IS—So too are the heads of state of every Muslim country, who have elevated man-made law above Sharia by running for office or enforcing laws not made by God.
 WTS—So too are the heads of state of every Christian country, who have elevated man-made law above the Bible by running for office or enforcing laws not made by God.
Reply
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 22, 2015 at 9:06 pm
 
Just this year we were able to travel to Paris for a short stay, absolutely wonderful, loved the experience, people etc, so we were upset,horrified to see what unfolded, and yes we have heard the comments here as to the non care attitude, even in this Sundays WT, their was appoint about people in Africa being turned on but due to divine protection all our brothers were safe, delusional comment, no sympathy for these lovely people , as i said to my wife no one deserves that
Reply
 
 
 DJ says:

 November 22, 2015 at 9:17 pm
 
An interesting thought came to my head. People who are jws, like myself, who follow other JWs on social media sites like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc created a second account hiding their identity nd sent information regarding the false teachings, nd evidence that the GB were wrong, nd sent this info to witnesses they follow? How many would open their eyes and leave? How many would go to this site and read these articles and leave the organization? What if a movement was started and so many JWs came to their senses and just left at once stating they no longer want to be Jehovah’s Witnesses? They can’t disfellowship a million people right?
Reply
 
 
 Wip it says:

 November 22, 2015 at 9:35 pm
 
Another comment that came out the other nite at dinner form an elders wife was, are dont worry we are so close, look at Daniels prophecy, the feet & toes of the image, the clay & steel dont mix, radical governments, opposed to liberal governments, you know what she said, we could wake up tomorrow & it all could be over, as i looked at her & the new baby i thought, you poor women, when are you going to wake up, People in general are not evil, People in general are good, when we got talking about the go bag, i said our neighbors will help us & i will help them.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 November 23, 2015 at 12:08 am
 
Thinking Jehovah’s Witnesses are a peaceful religion is the most childish attitude one can have. Consider this, what, spiritual law from their own books:
Yet it is not enough simply to teach your children to avoid bad associates. Help them to find good ones. One father says: “We would always try to substitute. So when the school wanted our son on the football team, my wife and I sat down with him and discussed why that wouldn’t be a good idea—because of the new companions that would be involved. But then we suggested getting some of the other children in the congregation and taking all of them to the park to play ball. And that worked out fine.”
18 Wise parents help their children to find good friends and then to enjoy wholesome recreation with them. For many parents, though, this matter of recreation presents challenges of its own. (fy chap. 8 pp. 96-97 pars. 17-18)!
That’s about family happiness.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 2:16 am
 
@Markie:
“I personally believe if there is a god out there ………only he can judge us…..Why would he kill the whole world and not us”.
If I understand you correctly, God would not destroy the good Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Mormons, Adventists, Lutherans, Buddhists, Muslims, Bahai, Hindus, Jainists, Jews, Druze, Taoists, Inter-faith, No faith, agnostics, atheiests etc.etc.?
If I understand you correctly, the following GB teaching is therefore incorrect?
“Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God’s new system. There is only one. There was just the one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization—God’s visible organization—that will survive the fast-approaching “great tribulation.” It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal. (Matthew 7:21-23; 24:21) You must be part of Jehovah’s organization, doing God’s will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life.—Psalm 133:1-3″ – You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982) p. 255
“…….I wonder how long does God need these system of things to go on to vindicate his name.”
As you have stated, the GB members are imperfect men and you cannot prove that they have God’s backing. So then couldn’t this GB doctrine about the system of things ending and God vindicating his name be incorrect?
“When I go from door to door I offer the magazines and tell them there maybe something in the magazine that they might find interesting and if they would like to read it please take it.”
Wouldn’t it also be good and honest of you to also tell the householders what you really believe when you give them the magazines? – the GB who write the magazines are imperfect men and you cannot prove that they have God’s backing (so the information in the magazines may be erroneous)?
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:53 am
 
dee, your quote from the ‘Live Forever’ Book is the one that got me in. It sucked me in good and proper and it was a lie. Just one ark and God’s Visible Organisation. What a crock of you know what. Come on Mark, think for yourself. Don’t believe the lies.
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 7:06 am
 
What I was saying is I don’t know what’s going to happen if anything. Buena suerte!
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:01 am
 
@Markie,
 It’s very sad that you did not answer my questions but have instead deflected them with this response which is not equivalent to what you stated above. You pointed out that there are flaws in all religions but yet you shy away from answering my questions about the JWs. Perhaps you have now finally realized that your JW religion is so flawed and you are living a lie that the shock of the realization is just too much for you to bear that you refuse to answer my questions?
I am not surprised that you deflected my questions as this is what JWs typically do when they are uncomfortable answering questions. Your failure to answer my questions has in fact validated why the persons on this site are critical of and as you have stated judgmental of the WT. Your failure to answer my questions has certainly given us more reason to have nothing positive to say about the WT as you have mentioned.
“I don’t know what’s going to happen if anything.” So why go from door-to-door giving persons magazines which clearly and boldly state what is going to happen? If you ‘do not know what is going to happen if anything’, yet distribute magazines which boldly and clearly state what is going to happen then you are misleading the householders and living a lie.
Alas, you have confirmed why the ex-JWs have left and are leaving the religion – the GB’s failed prophecies and constant doctrinal changes prove that just like you, they ‘don’t know what’s going to happen if anything’.
I refuse to be a part of a religion that ‘doesn’t know what’s going to happen if anything’, yet tells me that I must avoid all other religions as they are false, evil and Satanic and only they have the truth. I cannot go preaching to persons, telling them how wrong their religion is with the intent of getting them to leave their religion and join the JWs when the JWs themselves ‘don’t know what’s going to happen if anything’.
I, unlike you, cannot continue going from door- to-door misleading persons with lies, while expecting such persons to trade in their religion for the JW religion which is not “the truth” as the JWs claim.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 12:04 pm
 
@ Markie
Tenga un buen día y buena suerte igualmente.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:31 pm
 
What you said below is not very nice. And are you talking for everyone?

 
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 1:31 pm
 
I thought I did answer your questions. I am growing weary of this blog. I think your biased mind would say the same thing no matter what i said. Traveling today so hasta la vista!
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 2:09 pm
 
@Markie
We are happy to know that you are growing weary of this blog.
Tenga un buen viaje!

 
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 2:15 pm
 
@Markie
Oh & BTW, given that this commentary is about the French, it would certainly be most appropo to also wish you:
Bon voyage!

 
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:26 am
 
@Markie
Remember Christ words to his followers at Mark 9:38-42
 John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” (WT criticizes any others claiming to follow Christ) 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. 41 And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward. 42 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith, it would be better for him if a millstone that is turned by a donkey were put around his neck and he were pitched ( WT guilty of shunning, pedophilia, false prophecies, mental slavery and outright killing the faith of thousands every year)
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:04 pm
 
I do think there are a lot of elders with millstones! Hopefully I am not one.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

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The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”
Posted on November 20, 2015

A young woman shows solidarity by holding aloft a French flag in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks that has claimed 130 lives
A young woman shows solidarity by holding aloft a French flag in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks that has claimed 130 lives

In light of the horrendous terror attacks in Paris last week, Facebook users received the option to update their profile photos with an overlay consisting of the red, white and blue colors of the French Flag.
It’s reasonable to assume that individuals who update their profiles with this feature do so in a sincere display of solidarity with the people of France and the victims of a gruesome crime committed by backward thinking, brainwashed Islamic terrorists. Few people would perceive such a gesture as a pledge of allegiance to a government.
Apparently, some active Jehovah’s Witnesses dared to take part in these displays of the French colors, and it quickly stirred up disquiet among pro-JW Facebook groups.
Hemant Mehta over at the Friendly Atheist blog wrote about this very subject a few days ago. He makes some very valid arguments and you may read his article for yourself but I’d like to highlight the kind of silly contretemps this subject has induced in these pro-JW Facebook groups. (See screenshot)
france2
When a Jehovah’s Witnesses inquires whether it’s proper to display French colors in their profile, they are essentially asking; would such a gesture violate my neutrality and my faith?
It’s sad that someone would need input from strangers on a decision that is really a personal matter, but let’s not focus on the inquirers when there is a much more disturbing sentiment in the response by pro-JW moderators of these groups, and in the comments of rank-and-file JW Facebook users.
That disturbing sentiment is… indifference.
Jehovah’s Witnesses use the doctrine of political neutrality to explain why they don’t salute the flag, sing the national anthem, vote in elections or volunteer for military service. They believe that God’s heavenly Kingdom is the only solution to humanity’s problems and as such, most acts of civic duty constitute a lack of faith in God’s Kingdom.
On the surface, such a belief seems harmless, but for most Jehovah’s Witnesses this doctrine envelopes all displays of political awareness including gestures of sympathy. So, it’s no surprise that the reply by the moderator for the “Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses Worldwide” group would include the following statement:

“Those who are putting the colors of the French flag on their profile pictures are thus not showing the same impartiality as Jesus did.”
Not once does the Moderator acknowledge that it could be a solemn sign of sympathy for the French people or even the victims themselves. Instead, the Moderator argues that these gestures aren’t made for “similar or worse terror attacks” and questions: “why should France receive preferential treatment?”
This last statement is a clear snapshot of the Moderator’s indifference: “Terrorism is a part of the world system today; it is a symptom of the corrupt governance that runs the world today. Genuine Christians would therefore stay completely neutral in matters of this sort, and not become nationalistic in their thinking.”
The unquestioned obedience to a group of old men in Brooklyn is bad enough, but the callous indifference to the suffering of human beings that may not share your religious views is far more dangerous.
“How can a religious group that evangelizes to save lives be dangerous?”
Most Jehovah’s Witnesses would argue that they care about their neighbors, and this may be true at a personal level. But really most of their interaction with non-witnesses outside of secular work occurs within the context of trying to convert non-believers.
The truth is there are no JW charities, JW soup kitchens, JW clothing drives, or JW support groups. So far as I know, there are no JW organizations trying to improve the lives of others outside of the ministry work.
It’s difficult to blame rank-and-file JWs for their lack of charity. The organization is run by a group of delusional men who live in a social bubble. They’re protected from the day-to-day worries of the average person and are surrounded by “yes” men. All of their basic necessities are covered and they bask in the adoration of millions of followers who cling to every decree that comes down from the ivory towers in Brooklyn. Their indifference trickles down in their teachings.
Here’s a real example of how this can occur…
On Tuesday, September 11th, 2001 I would have found myself at 150 Broadway in Downtown Manhattan, two blocks away from the World Trade Center, had I not taken a personal day from work to support the service group during a Circuit Overseer visit.
I wouldn’t have been in direct risk of harm as the offices were far enough away to see little harm other than being overcome by the dust storm that followed the Tower collapses. In the aftermath, the company relocated the staff to the midtown offices because parts of downtown would be inaccessible for the weeks that followed.
I make these disclaimers because I don’t want to exploit the 9/11 tragedy to make my point, but my proximity to everything made the events of that day a very personal matter.
Just like millions of people across the world, I watched events on television. I also climbed to the rooftop of my apartment building for a clear view of the Downtown skyline only to find dozens of my neighbors already up there watching the horrible scenes unfold. The Towers eventually collapsed, and the eerie silence of a city that was always buzzing remains the most vivid memory of that day.
Later that evening, I received a Nextel “chirp” (remember those Nextel walkie-talkie phones?) from the Security Coordinator at work. They were trying to organize volunteers to help dig people out of the rubble. I was immediately compelled to assist in any way possible, so I recruited my brother and another Ministerial Servant from the congregation, and we set out to make our way into Manhattan.
Our efforts were thwarted by the police at every bridge and tunnel crossing into the city. Only Emergency Personnel and their vehicles were allowed to pass.
We eventually made our way to the waterfront Promenade in Brooklyn Heights at the feet of Watchtower’s Brooklyn Headquarters. I rang a Bethelite who served in our congregation; he came down from one of the Bethel residential buildings and joined us at the Promenade. The four of us stood there, leaning over the rails, looking across the East River. We could see and smell the smoke that filled the space where the Towers once stood. It felt so close I could touch it.
By that time, my brother and our friend had given up trying to get into Manhattan, but I would not relent. I asked a Police Officer how we could assist, and he pointed us to a nearby Red Cross office that was enlisting volunteers.
My brother and our friend agreed to go with me but they balked at registering to volunteer with the Red Cross because in their minds it was a “religious organization.” I then looked to our Bethelite friend to see if he’d be willing to join us, and he uttered the words that I would never forget: “Let the dead bury their dead.”
My Bethelite friend was quoting the words of Jesus in Luke 9:60 responding to a man who wanted to spend time at home with his aging father before committing himself to follow Christ.
At first I thought; “Surely, he isn’t using this bible quote to point out the futility in offering ourselves to aid in the rescue efforts?” Our Bethelite friend followed up with “the best thing we can do for these people now is inform them about Jehovah’s divine plan.” Those words defeated me.
I did register with the Red Cross and volunteered the next day to clean up Emergency Vehicles that came across the bridge covered in the dust and ash of the rubble, but the indifferent words of my Bethelite friend disturb me to this day.
Overall, my Bethelite friend is a decent human being. I like to think that the events that day simply weren’t as personal to him as they were to me, and that if confronted with the opportunity to lend a hand to someone in need, under different circumstances, love and compassion would motivate his actions.
The reality is that he looked at the events through the filters of his indoctrination. Sure, he was present but not connected in any real way with the victims of the atrocity. He was taught since childhood that it really is a futile endeavor to try to improve the world; that the ONLY remedy to all the bad things about the world is Jehovah, and that we should busy ourselves in the ministry work instead. It probably didn’t help that he also lived in that Bethelite “bubble,” an environment that fosters indifference.
Indifference is the reason a Jehovah’s Witness can view something trivial like displaying French colors on your Facebook profile as an act of disloyalty to Jehovah. Not because they are absent or don’t observe the tragedy, but because they are not connected with the victims.
The indifference does not allow them to look at non-believers as more than just sinners that have not yet accepted the “truth” and converted. It does not allow them to question the authority of those who invent their doctrine and enforce its rules.
This might seem like elitism, pride or arrogance that one could chalk up to a flawed ego. The reason this indifference is dangerous is that it’s not ego, it’s a symptom of their brainwashing. When we stop viewing our fellow man as human, as our equal, we tend to disconnect.
A quote often attributed to Edmund Burke says; “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” If we think about many of history’s atrocities, we soon understand that most, if not all of them, occur because a large group of people were indifferent towards another group, often a smaller one.
Most Germans didn’t hate Jews, but their indifference allowed Nazi Anti-Semitism to spread. Most Americans didn’t hate African-Americans, but their indifference allowed those in power to embed their racist views in the political fabric of the country for centuries.
What atrocities have Watchtower leaders been allowed to nurture because they’ve promoted a spirit of indifference within their ranks?
Most Witness love their families, but the indifference that streams down from the Governing Body allows them to view their loved ones a sinners, destined for destruction and worthy of shunning.
Most Witnesses are kind, friendly people, but indifference allows them to accept a view that non-believers are to be kept at arm’s length, and are worthy only of necessary interactions or spiritual aid.
Most Witnesses love their children and would risk their lives to protect them, but their indifference toward life in this “system of things” allows them to forfeit their inherent paternal instincts. They refuse lifesaving blood transfusions for themselves and their children in acts of loyalty to an organization in exchange for the promise of some future life in “paradise.”
I could go on forever about the things JWs forfeit due to the indifference their indoctrination promotes, but I’d rather make a call to action.
The Remedy to Indifference… Action
If you are an Ex-JW still reeling from the damage this cult has caused you, or if you’re an active JW mentally out and unable to walk away right now – you are not powerless. The remedy to indifference is action.
You may not be able to change the minds of those around you directly. It’s also unlikely that anyone in the Watchtower’s hierarchy can be moved to change by your actions alone. However, your activism doesn’t have to be related to the “JW world” in any way. You don’t have go “full apostate” to affect positive changes in your own world. All you have to do is connect.
Volunteer at a local homeless shelter or soup kitchen. Run a 5k to raise awareness for a cause that is personal to you. Take your kids with you. Show them how you can help other humans in more ways than handing them a bible tract or a Watchtower magazine.
If you can, participate in school functions, bake sales, PTA meetings, community yard sales, potlucks, etc. Invite your JW friends too. Chisel away at the indifference and you’ll find yourself connected to the community around you, and not just to people at your local Kingdom Hall. You’ll not only see the world without “JW Goggles” – you’ll be more inclined to sympathy, empathy and forgiveness toward humans in general, but more importantly… yourself.
You may not be inclined to fly the colors of the French flag in your Facebook profile, but you’ll understand those that do. And you may even understand that those hyper-sensitive “moral agents” who think a display of solidarity is treason against a publishing company are merely cold and indifferent self-deceivers.
Let’s take back our lives and connect with world.
Let’s be humane to the humans.
Oh and by the way… “Vive la France”!
 
A guest post by James Sequoia


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The Friday Column: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses cherish the marital bond? →
 
206 Responses to The Friday Column: “Let the dead bury their dead”

← Older Comments
 
 Syl says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:47 am
 
Great article.
 Being from Paris and having had friends involved directly in these horrible events made up for a pretty awful week. Us french usually have difficulties to use our flag or our anthem, much more than in America or in Britain (where I now live). The reason being it’s usually connoted with extreme right wing nationalists (National front), so we’re a bit suspicious towards using them. But following these events it just meant solidarity and for the first time I was happy to sing our anthem.
 But the fatalist attitude of witnesses towards world problems in general, drives me mad, now that I woke up and want to get involved to try to change things at my level. Whenever my JW family discuss the world, it ends up by “anyway, there’s nothing we can do, only the new kingdom will fix it”. So they just wait until it magically gets fixed and it creates this passive attitude. They won’t even try to think of what they can do to consume less, pollute less, be better for the environment, for example, as the end is so near anyway. What’s the point? That just drives me mad.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 23, 2015 at 4:08 am
 
I don’t know if any of you have seen this. I was told about it by someone and was very suspicious of it until I actually saw it. It is a testimony by a 15 year old Jewish boy who had a near death experience. He claims he went to Heaven and saw and heard many things. Sounds wacky but if you have the guts to watch it, I was stunned.
Of course JB Reezner might think he is back in the old book study again but this is quite different to that. This kid talks about certain things in the future. I watched it today. Again, it may be a fake but it doesn’t look like it to me. Judge for yourselves. It does contain subtitles and references to Jewish stuff but I am sure you can follow it okay. This is also showing that JW’s are not the only ones interested in prophecy.


Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 November 23, 2015 at 8:08 am
 
Who cares what the Watchtower thinks! The Pharisaical Watchtower Society is what it is. Jesus Christ stated that we should love our neighbors. By changing your Facebook profile picture to a French flag just shows that you care about the victims of that particular area of the world.
Reply
 
 
 Reader says:

 November 23, 2015 at 9:35 am
 
Let the dead bury their dead.
 1] The opportunity to follow Jesus on his earthly ministry. Now that really was something to miss out on! only available for 3.5 years in all history.
 BUT;
 2] The good Samaritan is about helping accross any divides, you did right.
Reply
 
 Pow says:

 November 23, 2015 at 9:42 am
 
Great comment,
 Who really is MY neighbor?
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 23, 2015 at 8:01 pm
 
Brilliant comment.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:00 am
 
Had a little experience with a MS last night. I was looking through other posts on this site and came across one about the typo in the silver bible at NUmbers 35 I think it is. Being a brat I texted said MS (whom has been a friend to me) and made a comment. He came back with ‘I bet the proof reader is df’d now’. I said he’s probably in chains bellow Warwick. ‘He said ‘yeah, never to be forgiven’. I said ‘yup, an infidel!’ after a few more comments I managed to slip in that the WT has over 7 billion lined up as infidels at armageddon… He agreed lol. I just shook my head.
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 23, 2015 at 4:13 pm
 
I remember that typo, Tara. It’s Numbers 33:6. Instead of saying, “Then they departed from Suc’coth…”, it reads: “The JW Org really suck’eth…”
Hey, maybe it ISN’T a typo!
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/error-found-in-new-silver-sword-revised-new-world-translation
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 24, 2015 at 8:07 pm
 
O diligent, automatic, comment-flagging spam robot, how I do love thee. And your fickle ways only add to your charm.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 24, 2015 at 11:49 pm
 
Mine disappeared and now it’s come back again.
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 November 25, 2015 at 6:31 pm
 
It’s only charming when it works.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 November 28, 2015 at 8:31 am
 
Ok I think this is poetic but I have no idea what you are talking about lol
Reply
 
 JB Reezner says:

 November 28, 2015 at 9:56 am
 
Tara, my Ode captures my feelings when I hit the Post Comment button and the instant, automatic “awaiting moderation” flag pops up because the anti-spam software is feeling cantankerous at that moment. About a week ago, the site was being blasted by trolls posting as much trash as they could. Amidst a dozen or so malicious comments, the only comment I saw “awaiting moderation” was a harmless, relevant one I had posted earlier in the day. So, as I evidently have a knack for using words that trigger it, I’ve learned to embrace its sweet stigma.

 
 
 dee says:

 November 28, 2015 at 1:13 pm
 
Yes JB, I too have noted the fickleness/randomness about the site’s anti-spam software which you mention – there are comments of mine from yesterday that are still awaiting moderation up to this point in time.

 
 
 Tara says:

 November 29, 2015 at 9:06 am
 
Lol oh I see :) yes got to watch those CAPITALS….

 
 
 
 
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 November 23, 2015 at 10:30 am
 
A very powerful and topical contribution. Indifference is a coping mechanism used by the Witnesses (and others!) when confronted with issues they would rather not face. The right response to indifference is to challenge it by showing a better way.
Reply
 
 
 Big B says:

 November 23, 2015 at 1:07 pm
 
A well written article and so true.
“Indifference” is the mainstay for this sect that had blinded me with their purple haze of “Paradise Earth” for over 55 years.
And to the indifferent, self-serving, so called “Christian Bethelite brother” who dared quote Jesus’ words “let the dead bury the dead” during this tragedy brings to mind this dialog between Ebeneezer Scrooge and the Ghost of Christmas present…
“Man,” said the Ghost, “if man you be in heart, not adamant, forbear that wicked cant until you have discovered What the surplus is, and Where it is. Will you decide what men shall live, what men shall die?”
― Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
Both show their indifference to humanity; one indifferent monetarily the other emotionally in the face of true tragedy.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:40 pm
 
@Big B
((Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol))……..tis the season to be jolly, falalalalahlalalalah……..have you decked the halls and started your Christmas shopping as yet?……only 31 to go:)☺
Reply
 
 Justin (formerly J*L*C*R) says:

 November 23, 2015 at 4:26 pm
 
Congrats, Big B on leaving the JW Religion! I know how difficult it can be for those who leave, especially after such a long time within the sect. Continue to celebrate your freedom and rest assured that there is a community for ex-JW support.
Reply
 
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 25, 2015 at 2:14 am
 
Out of interest Big B… have you keft or are you fading? I got baptised at 13 after being brought up as a witness… Im now 57 and started fading 2 years ago after the lights in my head were switched on completely and finally after years of suppressed doubt…I would be interested to know your story.
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 November 25, 2015 at 5:07 pm
 
Congrats on fading yourself. My story is that I started out in the JW’s as a non-baptized publisher, with my parents, in 1957 and was baptized in 1969. I started my own fading process after the death of my father (presiding overseer) in 2000. Non of us expected to die, or see loved ones die in this system, but instead were expecting to live to see Armageddon…so the death of my father was a great shock. My fading process was a slow and gradual and culminated in 2013 with the “New Light” in the July issue of the Watchtower. I have not been to a meeting/ assembly/ convention since. I told the elders during their one “shepherding call” in two years, that I would never be going back… EVER. After years in “the truth” I am disgusted with their policy, doctrine changes, etc. After living through 1975…enough is enough. I celebrated Halloween for the first time this year, with my non-JW family, as a 63 year old man. I will be celebrating Christmas for the first time since 1960. I hope my story helps you to continue your fade from this mind controlled indoctrination/cult of the JW’s and my one piece of advice would be to take back your Christian Freedom and Conscience from those who would wish to control you…ie the governing body.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:35 am
 
Thanks for your story Big B…. It similair to mine but I got baptised in 1971… I was shocked to find I was not alone…when I do go to the meetings now and again to please my spouse I find myself looking around at the severely depleted congregation wondering who feels like me but is also too scared of shunning and being cut off by thier family to completely finish woth this cult…thank you for your advice…thank you for your story.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Syl says:

 November 23, 2015 at 1:17 pm
 
“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything”
Albert Einstein
 The most à propos quote.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 23, 2015 at 1:48 pm
 
Awesome comments James, Big B, Syl.
When I was in high school, I used to preach like Paul about man’s inability to solve mankind’s problems and that only god’s kingdom can solve mankind’s problems. One of my classmates countered that the world is not perfect and we may not be able to solve all of the world’s problems but we can’t just take a hands-off approach and not do anything since any effort we make may not help everyone but it will at least help a few persons and that is better than not helping anyone at all.
Looking back I’ve asked myself how was my classmate able to have such a realistic view of the world at that young age yet I resorted to accepting the JW’s idealistic view and was convinced that it was a waste of time to get involved in initiatives to try to make the world a better place. As I got older I would feel guilty and conflicted about participating in such activities as, according to the GB’s narrative, when we participate in such activities we are showing that we believe in Satan’s system of things and we are not looking forward to the new system.
After a while I came to realize that the GB needs us to be indifferent about the world’s problems as this is just their way of deluding us with their fantasy paradise. The GB needs us to believe that everything around us is so bad and can’t be solved in order to keep us hooked on their fantasy paradise.
This indifferent attitude towards problems can also be very unhealthy at the personal level – the indifference could spill over into our personal lives and make us feel that we can’t successfully solve the problems or deal with challenges we may face in your personal lives.
Reply
 
 Justin (formerly J*L*C*R) says:

 November 23, 2015 at 5:24 pm
 
Outstanding comment, @dee! I agree wholeheartedly.
Reply
 
 
 
 peggy says:

 November 23, 2015 at 3:32 pm
 
Thank you James for this excellent article. After I left the org. I started to work on fund raisers for various causes. To do charitable work, to do something to improve the lives of members of my community, and more. It felt so good. I hate indifference. Once at some lunch hospitality I heard some very pious comments. They indicated these members of our community who do not accept WT. are simply bird food. They said IT LIKE THEY DID NOT CARE. And they do not. Yep God sends vultures to eat their neighbors. And they are down with that. Sick people.They don’t know how they sound.
Reply
 
 
 Grace says:

 November 23, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 
I love this guys videos especially this video it’s great, simple & reasonable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNB_FPVLHaU
I apply this to the indifference of JW’s.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 November 23, 2015 at 5:50 pm
 
Yes, Grace, this guy presents a rational approach to JW’s brainwashed personalities. You don’t get it till you actually leave. It does make us more understanding towards our loved ones who are still sucked in by the cult. They are just reflecting the parasitic personality that comes from uptop down to the blinded flock.
Still, I am trying with my own family, but I have been told to butt out of their lives in no uncertain terms. They haven’t shunned us but they have made it clear they do not want to be reminded of our opinions, but at least they know we have not changed our minds, like they probably want us to.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 November 23, 2015 at 6:47 pm
 
It’s a shame that people are so insecure about their faith that they can’t have an open discussion about it. I suppose if I were to think back to when I was indoctrinated, I was so emotionally invested in it that I didn’t want anything to undermine my belief.
Funny, I also knew deep down that I had many doubts but suppressed them to keep going.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Justin (formerly J*L*C*R) says:

 November 23, 2015 at 5:25 pm
 
Excellent article, James! Keep up the great work.
Reply
 
 
 Cherie says:

 November 24, 2015 at 6:00 am
 
If that response is any indication of the JW reaction to 911, it’s truly despicable. In times of crisis and disaster, compassion should supersede religious beliefs. I remember my late witness father refused to participate in his company’s United Way campaign years ago. He kept them from getting 100 percent participation and he was proud of it. I do a charitable gift in his memory every year. I guess it’s my way of making up for it, at least in part.
Reply
 
 
 Amber Waves says:

 November 24, 2015 at 6:43 am
 
Thank you, James, for the exceptionally well written and expressed thoughts. It’s been a rough year for me. Having recently been the recipient of some much needed assistance through the local Catholic church (this is not an endorsement of Catholicism or any other religion for that matter – merely an example), I mentioned just the other day to my Catholic boyfriend that there is no such provisions through the JW congregation. If you need assistance, you are told to have more faith. Pray more. Go out in service more. Seek first the Kingdom, and everything else would be added to you. It was at that time that I had an epihany (and, again, this is not an endorsement of Christianity or any particular religion. I myself am not sure what my beliefs are at this juncture): Christ’s ministry involved so much more than preaching. He fed people, he healed people, he geneuinely helped their real world here and now problems.. not just as a foregleam of what he would do in the future, as the Witnesses say, but because they needed it then and there. If it is all some grand story, or truth, he was an excellent example of a kind humanitarian whose ministry was more than just preaching. The JW’s completely miss that point.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 24, 2015 at 10:38 am
 
Awesome thoughts Amber, just absolutely awesome.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 24, 2015 at 10:41 am
 
Thanks for sharing.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 keinlezard says:

 November 24, 2015 at 7:29 am
 
Hello,
 First :)
 I would thank everybody who share this horror with french people. ( I’m french … :) )
But, the aim of my message is to share this with you … I was very shocked by this :
http://reho.st/self/7162f4777cc8f9563dd01b9072b0a96ce9ade1b4.jpg
In France at “Place de la République” JW have placed an “Awake”
and a “Watchtower” ….
It’s a shame on JW !
Greetings
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:21 am
 
Bonjour Keinlizard.
Il est à peine une surprise . Le WT pense que les magazines guérissent tout.
L’amour pour le peuple de France.
Moi.
Reply
 
 
 
 Gone Awhile says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:03 am
 
This post pointed out in me some residual fear in the form of what a very few family members might think. Wanting to do a thing, but still having that ingrained fear of doing it. This after all the other “sins”! Yet somehow held back on that one. Strange, one should logically think, but not to anyone who has experienced such a group. It can show up in the oddest pieces of life.
Reply
 
 
 Bandit says:

 November 24, 2015 at 6:28 pm
 
Honestly, we should all be trying to help each other, instead of doing what the GB does with hurting people and therir families emotionally and luing. Especially with what happened in Paris. I don’t care what the GB say, if my family was killed in an unjust attack, I’d participate in anything that commemorated all who died, even political.
 Bandit Out
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:12 pm
 
Some more interesting thoughts on the comparison between JWs & radical Islam:
http://avoidjw.org/2015/02/jihad-jehovahs-witnesses/
Reply
 
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 25, 2015 at 11:46 am
 
So my mom today was still talks to me even though I am df’d called me upset. It pains me to see the mental anguish she is going through as all people in her hall are talking about and predicting is that ISIS and the Paris Attacks are going to bring about the end. 1) it disturbs her (as it does all of us) what ISIS has been doing. 2) it scares her that if I am not reinstated and the end does come that I am at risk of being destroyed. I am awake but not sharing too much at the moment with her. So I had to use some of Lloyds excellent reasoning. I asked her “I know the world can seem scary and there is a lot of bad – but honestly would you rather be living now or lets say in the early 1900’s?” and she admitted “Well no I would rather be living now.” and I asked “Lets focus on the good! What kind of things do you enjoy now?” and she said cute things like “Italian food, Seinfeld, my cell phone etc.” and I laughed and said “Exactly! All those things are here and now and to be enjoyed. Could you imagine if we lived in the 1900’s? I wouldn’t be able to send you a text – I would have to send a carrier pigeon and send a black and white photo of the food I was enjoying!” which we both got a good laugh at(I feel humor is something that is a true weapon against cult thinking.) and then I dropped a little comment like “And mom could you imagine how disappointed we would be when David and Abraham weren’t resurrected and having a drink with Ruthorford at his mansion he built for them?” lol! And she gets quiet and says “Okay what in the world are you talking about?” And I kindly pointed her to the proclaimers book. Later she texted me and said “That is the craziest thing I have ever read!” and I texted back “It is crazy isn’t it! And thank God we live today so you could text me instead of sending that smelly old carrier pigeon.” to which we both laughed again.
I think my least favorite thing about the JW’s is the constant atmosphere of FEAR they are always living in. Having been out for two years I have really noticed how negative and sad and worried they are. I might write an article for this sight gathering all my thoughts on how fear is truly a path to the dark side(Sorry Star Wars is coming out.) and how we can use humor to bring our loved ones back and how it allows us to drop subtle but powerful truths and doubts. Amazing how many things I have been able to open her eyes to – but only by laughing at it. And a good reminder for all of us – that laughter and humor is truly therapeutic. Aggressive activism would never have worked on me. When Lloyd prank called Tony I was just dying laughing and to see not only how funny it was – but it also exposed what a loon TM3 is! That’s when for me my own fear and PTSD started to disappear. What does ISIS and the JW’s have in common: they both haven’t had a good belly laugh in a long time. Sorry if this was a little off topic – but I felt the conversation was relevant based on the Paris attack.
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 JBob says:

 November 25, 2015 at 5:34 pm
 
The heightened excitement among Watchtower group–I hadn’t put my finger on it, until I did the math… Moses and the Israelites exodus from Egypt and then 40 years of wandering in the wilderness, but led by a pillar of fire and smoke. So, doing the math:
1914 + 40 = 1955 – a spike in the number of active JW’s
1975 – a spike due to published speculations from Watchtower
1975 + 40 = ?? anyone?? anyone?? raised or lowered expectations? 2015.
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 dee says:

 November 25, 2015 at 5:54 pm
 
@JBob
We didn’t have to do the math for this one, it has already been done for us:
Watchtower 2003 Dec 15 p.15 “Warned of Things Not Yet Beheld”
draws a parallel with the 120 years leading up to the flood of Noah’s day:
“In Noah’s day, Jehovah declared: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3) The issuance of this divine decree in 2490 B.C.E. marked the beginning of the end for that ungodly world. Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring “the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens.”-Genesis 6:17.
Noah received the warning of the upcoming catastrophe decades in advance, and he wisely used the time to prepare for survival. “After being given divine warning of things not yet beheld,” says the apostle Paul, “[Noah] showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household.” (Hebrews 11:7) What about us?
SOME 90 YEARS HAVE PASSED SINCE THE LAST DAYS OF THIS SYSTEM OF THINGS BEGAN IN 1914.
We are certainly in “the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:4) How should we respond to warnings we have been given? “He that does the will of God remains forever,” states the Bible. (1 John 2:17) Now is therefore the time to do Jehovah’s will with a keen sense of urgency.”
2033/2034 anyone?
 Yup, there ain’t no better way for the GB to have fun than with the numbers game (their favourite past time apparently).
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 dee says:

 November 25, 2015 at 7:26 pm
 
GB member#1:
“Eureka! By George! The tensions in the Middle East are just the god-send we need right now!……..time to create some hype and get our recruitment numbers back up boys!”
GB member#2:
 Yeah. That November JW Broadcast about “Come Back to Jehovah” by Mark Sanderson was so lame. I really didn’t see how we were going to get our numbers back up after that lame presentation (but promise not to tell him that I said so).
(yup, it’s all about the numbers game)
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 Tara says:

 November 25, 2015 at 6:23 pm
 
What a loving son :) How wonderful that you used humour to show your mum some plain truths and because of your delivery she probably accepted it more than if you had gone in hard. You are totally right, When trying to deal with people we need to show empathy etc. Turn our knowledge of teaching into something wonderfully positive to show our loved ones how futile and damaging the WT is.
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 JBob says:

 November 25, 2015 at 5:30 pm
 
The typical JW position is “neutrality” on politics, but the issue–the terrible actions in France stem from an ideology that opposes on a spiritual level not government. In the case of other incidents, being JW puts one on a side regardless because if one holds to the infallibility of the Bible, they are opposition to the radical “jihadist” who holds to the infallibility of the Quran.
And, really when we’re rational about things, being neutral is taking a side–failing to act against atrocities or failing to support justice puts one on the side of supporting the evil or the injustice. So, failing to act against the Holocaust and to publicize it, or failing to support anti-apartheid in South Africa or the USA, is equivalent of supporting the evil side.
Some individuals also hold the belief that “God’s will is at work” so why cast my vote and upset His plan? Yet, the counterargument is perhaps God is using your vote to enact His plan and by your inaction and not voting, you are going against the Plan.
There’s always a valid counterargument when it comes to a matter that should be individual conscience and decision-making.
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 Chiafade says:

 November 25, 2015 at 9:01 pm
 
Thank you for this comment. I remember a sister in my hall who was assigned to jury duty. There were so many JWs I knew that absolutely refuse to serve on a jury. Well, when the sister went with her jury group before the judge the first thing the judge said was ” if anyone is even thinking of saying I can’t serve serve on the jury for religious reasons, remember… If you want to get justice you have to give justice!”
The organization has instilled such an insular mentality among the witnesses that it’s as if real life is a television show to them. They can see the “worldly people” around them but they just can’t relate to them.
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 Barb Moor says:

 November 25, 2015 at 9:48 pm
 
I have no problem with the French flag overlay on Facebook, but what I think everyone needs (especially JW’s) is a wider worldview. Beirut had a bombing that day too. Mali has suffered. France is lovely and perhaps more psychologically appealing to some to support than Beirut.
Thus, I felt it was too much of a trend to simply add the French flag. Sort of like the Ice-bucket challenge: Everyone did it but did everyone donate? I know so, so many who did it for the video and not for raising funds or awareness.
We need to be aware of terror and evil ALL over the world. It makes it that much more capable of helping and not imitating the ignorance of JW’s as a whole who often relish bad news as some sort of justification.
I also see so much silence about the refugee crisis from the few local JW’s I know. It’s not them so it doesn’t exist.
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 Starlight says:

 November 25, 2015 at 10:56 pm
 
What happened in France is sad. Now, It’s amazing how you guys use tragedies likes those terrorist atacks in France to criticize Jehovah Witnesses. Where is the article that YOU or cedars have written to condemn those attacks? It’s seems like you guys don’t care about what happened to those people or the pain their families are experiencing these days, you just care about what Jws do on social media. Why don’t you send a letter to ISIS leaders condemning the Attacks? What are you waiting for: another attack or are you waiting that ISIS leaders wear “tight pants”?
Show the world that you are against terrorism, send a letter to ISIS. You did send a letter to jw leaders and that was ok, maybe you didn’t get the answers you were waiting for, but you had the courage to write them. You even had an opportunity to talk with Morris III. Try to make a joke to ISIS, call them. Maybe ISIS will answer you with details.
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 JB Reezner says:

 November 26, 2015 at 5:09 pm
 
Starlight, the express purpose of this site is to expose the JW religion as a cult. Although some visitors here may be interested in activism related to other causes, this will likely never be a staging area for it. If unflattering talk toward the JW Org irritates you, this site is probably not the place for you.
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 Bandit says:

 November 26, 2015 at 6:49 am
 
Ok so it’s Thanksgiving day and you would think that Witnesses have some type of class but nope just go preaching to people while they enjoy quality time with their families and enjoy their food. My parents are malking me and sll I want to do is apologize at the door if someone answers. Hopefully they have a doorbell so I can fake ring it.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 26, 2015 at 3:49 pm
 
@phoenix_rising
I invite you and your mom to release yourselves from the fear of Armageddon imposed by the JW’s delirium, obsession and fascination with the destruction of the world, by reconsidering the claim that the Bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God.
If you were to browse the following websites, for example, you will discover that there are in fact Christians who believe that the Bible is NOT the infallible, inerrant word of God. So it is possible to be a Christian and yet believe this:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/inerran10.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/inerran9.htm
When I was in high school, my Biology teacher who was a nun, stated that some Catholics believe that some of the accounts in the Bible are fables and legends and stories about events that did not actually occur. I of course, was shocked by all of this given my JW indoctrination and brainwashing. I was so convinced that those Catholics are just pain evil for believing such a thing about the Bible.
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 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:14 am
 
Some other thoughts:
Many JWs have never reflected on the history of the Bible and how it came to be. They are not aware that the Bible canon was in fact established by the Catholic Church.
Interestingly, JW’s believe that the Catholic Church is a part of “Babylon the great, the empire of false religion” and are in league with the Devil:
“..…religion is a snare of the Devil and the Devil’s associates and is operated as a racket against the people. Again let the people be reminded that religion is a snare and a racket, originating with the Devil, the leader of the demons, and forced upon the people by the demons: the snare of the Devil, in which to catch the people, and the racket of the religious leaders to rob the people. All the practitioners of religion, and the adherents thereto, will find no place of safety or escape at Armageddon.…religion is wholly an invention of the Devil.”
 – Religion (Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 1940) pp. 88,104-105, 125 –http://wtarchive.svhelden.info/archive/en/publications/1940_JR_Religion.pdf
If this is the case then it was in fact the Devil who guided the Catholic Church to select the books that make up the Bible and not God’s Holy Spirit. However, these books selected by the Devil’s agents constitute the basis of the “one true religion”: Jehovah’s Witnesses.
One wonders why the Devil would have his agents go through all the trouble of sifting through a mass of religious writings and come up with just the right mix of works that were inspired by his arch-nemesis, and make that available to the JWs?
Another point: Christians differ on which books should be apart of the Bible canon. As a result of a dispute, the Protestant canon contains 7 fewer books than the Catholic canon.
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 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:15 am
 
As I have stated before, there are Christians who believe that the book of Revelation should not have been included in the Bible:http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.ca/2009/07/end-times-set-of-prophecies-or-set-of.html?m=1
http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html
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 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:40 am
 
Earlier Christians who rejected/doubted the book of Revelation include:
-Dionysius of Alexandra, c190 – 17Nov265https://www.umass.edu/wsp/philology/gallery/dionysius.html
-John Calvin, the founder of Presbyterianism and Erasmus another Protestant scholar doubted Revelation
-The greatest name in the records of the Protestant church is Martin Luther. He is generally recognized as its founder; he is considered as one of the highest authorities on the Bible; he devoted a large portion of his life to its study; he made a translational of it for his people, a work which is accepted as one of the classics of German literature. With Luther the Bible superseded the Church as a divine authority. And yet this greatest of Protestants rejected Revelation. He said: “I can discover no trace that it is established by the Holy Spirit” (Preface to Edition of 1622)
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html
So no Revelation, no Armageddon! 😉
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 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 12:08 pm
 
********As a follow up to this article which is referenced above:http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.ca/2009/07/end-times-set-of-prophecies-or-set-of.html?m=1
please also see the comment in the comments section of the following article:http://valerietarico.com/2009/07/08/the-book-of-revelation-prophecies-hallucinations-or-history/
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:16 am
 
Earlier Christians who rejected the book of Revelation include:
– Dionysius of Alexandria, c190 – 17 Nov 265:https://www.umass.edu/wsp/philology/gallery/dionysius.html
– John Calvin, the founder of Presbyterianism and Erasmus doubted Revelation.
– The greatest name in the records of the Protestant church is Martin Luther. He is generally recognized as its founder; he is considered one of the highest authorities on the Bible; he devoted a large portion of his life to its study; he made a translation of it for his people, a work which is accepted as one of the classics of German literature. With Luther the Bible superseded the church as a divine authority. And yet this greatest of Protestants rejected Revelation. He said: “I can discover no trace that it is established by the Holy Spirit.” (Preface to Edition of 1622).
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html
So no Revelation, no Armageddon! :)
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:17 am
 
According to the Watchtower of 9/15, 2012, pg.3-7:
“How This World Will Come to an End”http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012681#h=15:
God will put it into the heart of the UN to destroy false religion. These events will culminate in the battle of Armageddon.
The Bible, however, does not actually state that the UN is going to destroy false religion – this is just the WT’s interpretation. They however don’t seemed too convinced about their own interpretation that:
“….the UN is not a blessing, even though the religious clergy of Christendom and the rabbis of Jewry pray heaven’s blessing upon that organization. It is really “the image of the wild beast,” the visible political, commercial organization of “the god of this system of things,” Satan the Devil. So the UN will soon be destroyed along with that beastly organization.”
-Watchtower 1984 Sep 15 p.15
since in 1992, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York applied to be a Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) Associate Member of the United Nations Department of Public Information (UN DPI). This is the closest relationship an NGO can form with the UN. The application was renewed annually and is a matter of public record:http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php
One wonders just how will the UN be able to pull off the destruction of false religion. The UN does not have a standing army. When they need troops, they borrow them from members. I can’t imagine the armies of the Muslim countries agreeing to turn on their own people to destroy their religion. Soldiers tend to be loyal to their own country first, to the UN second. Are the soldiers going to agree to turn on persons who share their own faith/ideology? It has been difficult to destroy the Taliban in Afghanistan. How will the UN be able to destroy religion in the nuclear armed Muslim countries like Iran and Pakistan?
I would imagine that a fair proportion of military personnel around the world subscribe to one form of religion or another. But it seems that we are being asked to believe that the armed forces of the world will turn on organised religion. I suppose the soldiers would be expected to turn on the soldiers and civilians who do not share their faith.
Places of worship may be destroyed and religious leaders imprisoned but that would only serve to strengthen people’s resolve if they feel they are being persecuted for Christ’s sake in the case of Christians; the same would hold true for all religions. All religions would cling to their religions even more and meet and spread their ideas underground, so I’m not sure if religion would really be destroyed. Communist Russia and China are good examples of nations trying to eradicate religion, yet religion still exists in these countries.
The attack on any religion would be contrary to the United Nation’s charter. The UN would first have to get unanimous approval to dispense with Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
 But I imagine that countries like the US and UK will veto such a resolution in the UN Security Counsel since supporting such a move would mean that they would have to shred their constitutions since these provide for freedom of religion.
Reply
 
 Deep Thinker says:

 November 27, 2015 at 1:28 pm
 
The last time there was an issue with religion was when Constantine’s Roman Empire was being ripped apart by various religious factions. Pagan and otherwise.
 To bring harmony to the Empire, he “Christianized” it, seeing in it the seeds of their apocalyptic message and how he could use that and them to ruthlessly suppress the more tolerant “Pagan” religions.
What we have today is an amalgamation and invention of Eusibius (who probably wrote most of the books) and various religions encompassing the Roman Empire.
We are in the same state today, and I can foresee that what will happen is the best of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc. make up a Universal (dare I say Catholic – LOL) religion, and the rest ruthlessly suppressed, with book burnings like they did back then.
Was done before and can be done again.
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 28, 2015 at 3:44 pm
 
******CORRECTION:
“Communist Russia” should read “former Communist Soviet Union (USSR)”.
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:18 am
 
Finally, the following shows that the WT’s teaching about Armageddon should not be taken seriously:
The WT concluded that the “king of the south” in Daniel 11 is fulfilled in Britain and America, and “the king of the north” in the Soviet Union. (Your Will Be Done On Earth 1958, pp 263 & 278)
In their Your Will Be Done book, the WT stated:
– …the Soviet Union, the Communist power, that since it seized power in Russia in 1917, has held world domination as its aim to this day (i.e. up to 1958 at the time of the book’s publication).
 (p. 278)
– Down to the ‘time of the end’ at Armageddon there will be competitive coexistence between the ‘two kings’. (p. 297)
– Jehovah’s angel foretold further aggressions by the Communist king of the north before his end at Armageddon. (p. 300)
– The Soviet Union will gain control of most of the world and its wealth and resources including oil.
 (pp 297, 303)
– The Soviet Union will then be terrified by reports issued by the WT and initiate an attack against JWs. (pp 304-305)
– Finally the Soviet Union and America will join forces to attack the JWs which leads to the annihilation of both America and the Soviet Union. (pp 306-307)
– Billions of people on earth who are not JWs will at that time be destroyed. (p. 347)
Despite predictions that the Soviet Union will competitively exist until Armageddon, and will fall at that time after aggressions against the rest of the world, the Soviet Union is now defunct and has fragmented into a Commonwealth of Independent States and former Soviet republics.
In a previous WT book called The New World (1942) “The king of the north” was quite different and “included the Central Powers, or imperial Germany, Roman-Catholic Austria-Hungary, Roman Catholic Italy and Vatican…Japan…” (p. 324)
An even earlier WT book called Thy Kingdom Come (1891) applied the latter part of Daniel chapter 11 to the Napoleonic period in 1799.
http://ed5015.tripod.com/JwKingOfTheNorth25.html
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:19 am
 
Watchtower June 1 2003, “Giving That Pleases God”:
“There is a kind of giving that is even more important than charity… While he took the lead in helping the poor, healing the sick, and feeding the hungry, JESUS PRIMARILY TRAINED HIS DISCIPLES TO PREACH…… Why not listen to what Jehovah’s Witnesses have to say the next time they call? They come with a spiritual gift. And they know that this is the best way that they can give to you.”
According to the WT’s own magazine, the best “charity” they can give to anyone is to preach to them. It doesn’t matter if someone is homeless or literally starving or has been wearing the same clothes for a month; it doesn’t matter if they have children who are living on the streets with them and who haven’t eaten anything but garbage scraps for days. The “best way that they can give” is to preach to them. According to the title of the article, this is the type of “giving that pleases god.”
http://jwvictims.org/2015/02/28/jehovahs-witnesses-endorse-charitable-works-as-long-as-theyre-performed-by-someone-else/
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 November 27, 2015 at 6:33 am
 
dee, thank you so much for all your research!!
Reply
 
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 27, 2015 at 8:19 am
 
Yesterday I was bold and sent a snap chat of my celebrating Thanksgiving – and one active JW who still talks to me responded “wow enjoying a pagan day huh?'” and I said “I don’t think the pilgrams and turkeys were Pagans. But maybe you and your husband shouldn’t be stumbling me with wearing pagan wedding rings from Egyptian customs.”
*silence*
 oh want some ice for that burn? =)
Reply
 
 
 
 rob says:

 November 27, 2015 at 9:14 am
 
@phoenix_rising
Funny how witnesses are so quick to point out the “pagan holidays” but are in the dark about so many other things that have pagan origins.
Your response to the judgemental witness was spot on.
Reply
 
 phoenix_rising says:

 November 27, 2015 at 11:52 am
 
@rob exactly! That was one thing that bothered me and made zero sense as an active JW. I knew rings were pagan origin but (can we f-ing stop saying pagan origin – how about ‘something people did a long time ago that harms no one today so we keep the tradition’)but felt “well it must be such a trivial thing. But really – isn’t Birthday’s, Thanksgiving, and other such things just about on the same level as rings? I mean think about this: rings are completely an old non Christian tradition – yet its part of the JW marriage ceremony. But yet its view as normal. As normal as mash taters and turkey and gravy as far as I am concerned.
Curious if we can list anything JW’s did or do that are of – I don’t want to say it – pagan origin.
Reply
 
 rob says:

 November 27, 2015 at 2:56 pm
 
White wedding dresses are apparently of pagan origin and playing cards are possibly of pagan origin and I personally know alot of witnesses that love to play cards.
But I think that the witness religion (rutherford) implemented the no holiday celebration rule (using the pagan excuse) in order make the witnesses really stand out as different.
I have asked several witnesses why the picking and chosing of what is pagan and what is not pagan, but they just simply have no answer and continue to villify me for now celebrating what I feel are wonderful special days.
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 Tara says:

 November 27, 2015 at 4:39 pm
 
clinking of glasses and saying cheers! whoa I had my head ripped off a number of times for that one. Because it evokes the god of luck. Reading Lord of the Rings lol…
Reply
 
 Phoenix_rising says:

 November 27, 2015 at 5:52 pm
 
Lord of the rings?!
 *clink*
 I’ll drink to that

 
 
 Tara says:

 November 27, 2015 at 6:22 pm
 
Bah hahaha

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 November 27, 2015 at 10:36 pm
 
OT Comment…
A “resolution” was brought to the congregation during the mid week meeting. All Australian goods and services taxes (GST) for purchases and services (I can only assume in relation to invoices and bills incurred through the hall) that were previously sent to the Branch (maybe for some form of tax break) and then back to the hall will now be sent directly to the Branch and kept there to contribute to the worldwide work.
 Im not sure if anyone else has insight into this “resolution” or if it’s just Australian specific, but considering there was no insight into the rationale behind saying “yes” or “no”, nor an explanation as to why the taxes were being shuffled between the congregation and the branch in the first place… it all just seems a little bit strange and suspect IMHO.
 I’d expect at the very least some form of a semi-detailed explanation as to the pros and cons behind the resolution.
 Naturally, everyone just raised their hands without question.
Sorry about the switch in topic. Just hoping to garner some external insights from others who may have had the same announcement, either here or abroad.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 10:28 pm
 
@Stirring Awake
You can discuss anything JW at anytime at the following ex-JW forums:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw
Reply
 
 
 
 enuffsenuff says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:35 am
 
Dee, your comment about the UN being unable to wipe out world religion. The UN doesn’t need an army… with the stroke of a pen it could all be done and dusted within the “hour”. It will/would legislate them out of existence. Of course that would simply mean that member states would prohibit religious practises openly. Temples, mosques, cathedrals, k/halls etc would be demolished, sold, whatever. Has it been done before? By and large it was under the old Soviet Govt and C/China has done the same including N/Korea where indigenous Govt’s will do the job in their own time and way once they have the legal right on a world scale. Just a thought.
Reply
 
 
 Tia says:

 November 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
 
How about the jw.org flags?
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 1:06 am
 
@Deep Thinker & enuffsenuff
Thank you for your responses. It’s always good to get another viewpoint/perspective as these serve as a good sounding board.
@Deep Thinker
 I note however that your scenario would not fit in with the WT’s narrative which claims that the JWs will be the only religion remaining after false religion is destroyed by the UN.
Please also note that the JW’s claim that they are the only loving religion on earth that does not participate in warfare is far from correct.There are in fact a number of religions that do not participate in war. Christian churches known for their stance against war include:
 -Moravians (one of the very first Protestant religions dating back to the 1500’s)
 -Brethern (Dunkards) groups, including Church of the Brethren
 -Anabaptist groups, including
 Mennonites (16th century group numbering 1.5 million)
 Hutterites
 Schwenkfelders
 Bruderhof Communities
 Amish (numbering approximately 200,000)
 -Society of Friends (Quakers)
 -Doukhobors – 17th century breakaway from Russian Orthodox
 -Molokans – 17th century breakaway from Russian Orthodox
 -Some Pentecostal groups such as the
 Pentecostal Charismatic Peace Fellowship
 -Seven Day Adventists
 -Community of Christ
 -Christadelphians
 -Worldwide Church of God
 -Pax Christi – A Catholic peace movement
 -Fellowship of Reconciliation – A group formed in 1914 to unite pacifists regardless of denomination.
 All major religious denominations have affiliated associations including
 -Anglican Pacifist Fellowship
 -Methodist Peace Fellowship
 -Baptist Peace Fellowship
 -Orthodox Peace Fellowship
 -Lutheran Peace Fellowship
 -Presbyterian Peace Fellowship
One can clearly see that God would also have to put it in the heart of the UN to spare these Christian religions, as well as the non-Christian religions which do not participate in war, since it is not only the JWs who abstain from participating in warfare. The UN would therefore have no reason to destroy these religions.
Both your scenario and this latter scenario will mean that there is no Armageddon since according to the WT, Armageddon will only strike when the JWs are the only religion remaining and they subsequently come under attack. The JWs being the only religion that will remain after the destruction of false religion is a necessary prerequisite in order for Armageddon to start according to the WT’s narrative. Without this prerequisite being met, Armageddon cannot start.
According to the WT, it will be the UN’s one thought to destroy all other religions except the JWs as only the JWs are not warmongers and God will even put it in the UN’s heart to carry out their one thought. One wonders just why God will not make the UN continue believing this about the JWs so that the JWs will be spared from any subsequent attack. Why couldn’t God just continue to put it into the heart of the nations of the UN to spare the JWs from any attack for all enternity?
As we all know this is not a perfect world (I sometimes wonder why God didn’t just make it that way in the first place but that’s for another time) and so there are atrocities being committed by religion which are of major concern to the UN. I am also aware of the reports about governments which restrict religion:http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/01/14/religious-hostilities-reach-six-year-high/
Reply
 
 dee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 2:30 am
 
@Deep Thinker & enuffsenuff
But I also note that the world has come a far way from the scenario which Deep Thinker is proposing. Quite a few countries have now enshrined the right to religious freedom in their constitutions and are ensuring that this right is protected as they strive to create more religious tolerant societies. Even the JWs have been benefitting from the efforts made by governments to foster religious tolerance and protect the right to religious freedom:http://newsday.ge/new/index.php/en/component/k2/item/11456-public-defender-responds-to-infliction-of-damage-to-kingdom-hall-of-jehovah-s-witnesses
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20151017/full-report-discrimination-public-defender-says-stripping-st-hildas-head-girl
It is also noteworthy that Canada established the Office of Religious Freedom on February 19, 2013, which is dedicated to promoting freedom of religion or belief as a key Canadian foreign policy priority. This initiative recognizes that, globally, vulnerable religious communities are subject to increasing levels of persecution, violence and repression. The office is headed by an ambassador.
Sometime prior to this, the U.S. also established the Office of International Religious Freedom. Its mission is to promote religious freedom as a core objective of U.S. foreign policy. It monitors religious persecution and discrimination worldwide, recommends and implements policies in respective regions or countries, and develops programs to promote religious freedom. This office is headed by an Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom.
Based on all of the above, it seems to me that the world is inclined more toward promoting religious tolerance than promoting the destruction of religion.
 As I have stated before, the attack on any religion would be contrary to the United Nation’s charter. I am afraid that it is more than just a stroke of a pen as enuffsenuff has suggested. The UN would first have to get unanimous approval from its members in order to dispose of Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This is an international covenant which guarantees religious freedom as the inalienable right of every human being.
 Based on the fact that there are a significant number of countries that have enshrined religious freedom in their constitutions, it seems that such a unanimous vote would be difficult to obtain.
Also, of the 5 permanent members of the UN’s Security Council with veto power, France, the US and the UK would be sure to veto any resolution to destroy religion since supporting such a move would mean that they would have to shred their constitutions which have enshrined freedom of religion. It would perhaps be more reasonable to believe that it would be the Communist countries which would be inclined towards destroying religion as enuffsenuff’s comment has shown.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 December 3, 2015 at 6:19 pm
 
@Deep Thinker:
“……..I can foresee that what will happen is the best of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc. make up a Universal (dare I say Catholic – LOL) religion, and the rest ruthlessly suppressed, with book burnings like they did back then.”
There is the belief that freedom of religion should counter radicalization and extremism so it seems that some suppression will exist:http://www.newsy.com/videos/france-likely-to-close-over-100-mosques-it-says-preach-hatred/
“What we have today is an amalgamation and invention of Eusibius ((((who probably wrote most of the books))))…….”
Your eye-opening comment does make one wonder where the Catholic church got the manuscripts for the bible from:http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_40.htm
Reply
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 2:45 am
 
*******CORRECTION
“Based on all of the above, it seems to me that the ((world)) is inclined……..”
should read:
“Based on all of the above, it seems to me that ((a significant number of countries)) are inclined……..”
Reply
 
 
 dee says:

 December 3, 2015 at 11:55 am
 
Not everyone believes that the JWs are a peace-loving religion as the JWs like to think.http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TE19320151125
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russian-regional-court-declares-jehovahs-witnesses-texts-extremist/529388.html
The JWs may very well be a candidate for destruction like the other warmongering religions according to JW theology.
Reply
 
 dee says:

 December 3, 2015 at 6:27 pm
 
@Deep Thinker:
“……..I can foresee that what will happen is the best of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc. make up a Universal (dare I say Catholic – LOL) religion, and the rest ruthlessly suppressed, with book burnings like they did back then.”
There is the belief that freedom of religion should counter radicalization and extremism so it seems that some suppression will exist:http://www.newsy.com/videos/france-likely-to-close-over-100-mosques-it-says-preach-hatred/
“What we have today is an amalgamation and invention of Eusibius ((((who probably wrote most of the books))))…….”
Your eye-opening comment does make one wonder where the Catholic church got the manuscripts for the bible from:http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_40.htm
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee says:

 November 30, 2015 at 12:24 pm
 
@JB
RE your post on November 21, 2015 at 3:53 pm:
“So I know this is not directly related, but in the context of people acting inhuman in the name of religion, such as the Paris attacks by Islamic State and the indifference of Jehovah’s Witnesses, here I think is a petition worth supporting and sharing on Facebook/Twitter etc. http://wh.gov/iVVIt”
I received the following interesting response after sharing the link on social media:
“No. The amendment should stand on its merits. Do not touch it or the 2nd. It is not freedom of religion that has allowed these people to skirt the law. Don’t monkey with our Constitution, monkey with the laws already on the books against child molesters.”
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 December 1, 2015 at 10:22 am
 
Don’t get me started on Americans and their precious Constitution. They are blind when it comes to that, which is a shame as on a whole, the ones I’ve met are lovely people.
 As a nation though they put the “almost sacred” constitution over the lives of children. Case in point? They prefer to regularly see children and others get gunned down by mental cases rather than amend their constitutional rights to bear arms. Well if you walk around with a gun, be prepared for nutters prepared to use them!
 If they won’t change it even in the wake of so many gun-related deaths, I very much doubt that they’ll amend it for child abusers. :(
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 10:31 am
 
There are between 270-310 million guns in American homes, not counting the millions of varying munitions. Even if they did change the constitution,who would or could enforce it? These gun right activist have shown they are willing to go to war with the government if need be, over their “right to bear arms”.
Reply
 
 Robert67 says:

 December 2, 2015 at 10:35 am
 
and that’s just the legally registered. Probably twice that number are unregistered across the country.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
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