Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
Brian
Andrew, this is all wrong. your text are used wrong, i doubt you even read the bible once.
First) God Doesnt hate gays. get that straight. like you said, he hates the act(homosexuality) i am a Jehovas Witness. gay aswell and im barely 16 even now i have come to understand both sides. God side, and what we would like to choose.
I too struggle have we not all? Pain and sadness is relevant to everyone. Do not Preech hate to these people. most of whom are ex-Jw's. If anything, you should use the bible correctly. No one goes to hell, no one, is born gay BECAUSE OF GOD So dont make a claim like it is a fact. Your an arrogant person just because life isnt going your way dont find any sort of false leak to make a Religon wrong. esspecially ours. If you would like to disscuss this u should do it by email.
smmcroberts
Brian,
I'm somewhat confused by your comment. You said [evidently referring to Andrew's blog] that it's "all wrong" -- but neglected to show anything wrong.
First: Andrew never said "God hates gays." So why do you bring this up as if it's one of the things "wrong" with his blog?
You said "Do not preach hate." Where in this blog did Andrew "preach hate?" He is not preaching hate; he is clearly advocating acceptance.
You said "your text are used wrong" and admonished Andrew to "use the bible correctly." Andrew merely quoted the Bible and showed how the Watchtower applies it. I have seen them apply it exactly that way. If it is "wrong" then blame the Watchtower.
You said "no one goes to hell." How is this relevant in a blog that never once mentioned the subject of hell?
You said "no one is born gay because of God so don't make a clam like it is a fact." Um, excuse me, Brian but you just made a claim as if it were a fact in a sentence in which you warn Andrew not to do that very thing! Can you say "double-standard?"
Andrew is an atheist and so is not blaming God for making you gay. You are just full of straw-man arguments! If you, on the other hand, DO believe in God, then I don't see how you could say that God had nothing to do with your being gay. But don't project your belief onto Andrew.
You said: "you are an arrogant person just because your life isn't going your way don't find any sort of false leak to make a religion wrong. Especially ours." So, you know Andrew personally, then? No? Then you don't know if he's arrogant or if his life is peachy keen at the moment or in the crapper. You're writing what you can't possibly know as if it's the truth: just like the Watchtower does! You do the same thing when you claim to know what God hates and what he doesn't.
When their religion is held up to honest criticism, Witnesses tend to lash out with these ridiculous personal attacks which just make them look stupid. We've seen it time and again on JWB. That's why the Watchtower tells you not to leave your comments on our sites: you do more harm to your religion with your attitude than we ever could. We don't need any "false leaks" we just need to quote exactly what the Watchtower says, and then let Witnesses speak for themselves in comments such as yours. That's enough to keep any sensible person from succumbing to your cult.
Finally, why do you say: "especially ours?" Shouldn't we apply the SAME truth tests to ALL religions alike? Wouldn't it be hypocrisy to try to exclude one's own religion from examination? Of course it would. But none of what you said surprises me: it's typical of a Jehovah's Witness. I was the same way before I learned how to think:http://www.jehovahswitnessblog...
Jill
My son is 17 and we found out that he was gay when he was 16. He didnt tell us, we overheard him talking about it. We always wondered if he was gay but as he also has Aspergers' Syndrome(autistic spectrum disorder-ASD) we thought his feminine behaviour was attributable to that.
My husband and I are both baptised JWs. We have 4 children and have raised them as JWs. Our older 2 (son 25 and daughter 23) are married and both pioneer and son is ministerial servant. Our younger 2 (14 and 17) both have ASD and my youngest and eldest have type 1 diabetes. Neither of my younger boys are baptised JWs nor do they attend the meetings. I became a JW aged 20 and I'm now 50, married to a JW for 25 years.
When j*** said he was gay I stopped going to the meetings because I couldn't parent him whilst thinking that he was 'wicked'. Long story short- whilst my husband still goes to meetings I do not. My eldest ( mini servant) has just given his first full public talk so I went to listen to it to support him. The families went out for a meal afterwards to celebrate. We were not invited! My pioneering daughter married a JW who has declared that he hates my younger sons. He is a fool and doesn't understand that we have to parent them differently as they have special ASD needs. I have persuaded my husband to allow my sons bf to stay overnight in our home ( in seperate beds) but he's not comfortable with it. Initially our son and his bf had to stay in hotels overnight as his bf lives 100 miles away and doesnt drive. It was costing them £100 to see each other each weekend. Our 2 older children treat us like we are marked as bad associates. It stinks! Their behaviour towards us has done more damage than the news that j*** is gay. I won't go bk to being a JW whilst my son needs my support and he will probably need that all of his life. The whole disfellowshipping thing is cruel and I am totally opposed to it Jehovah wants us to serve him willingly not because we are afraid of being df'd. I have lost my faith and have invested 30 years into something that was a blessing but has now become a curse. I have lost my friends, my family and all I'm guilty of is supporting my autistic gay son. I'm not df'd but I may as well be. It is very sad
Bryan
I really like the comments of all of you... I'm from CR and I think if you are JW as me is so difficult to handle if you are gay
cOURT
BTW...im not here to denounce jehovahs kingdom...thats not my aim. I believe in GOD i just believe that no one has the right understanding of how we are supposed to be living and the requirements. I think the world JW included have it wrong cuz it just doesnt make sense.
Martha
Andrew, thank you for such a wonderful site which I hope will help many gay Jehovahs Witnesses. I think is is so very sad, this harsh struggle they must go through. I wish you could send this to every gay Jehovahs Witness as you explain things so brilliantly. I do not understand the religion but have realised how awful it is for gay people having been bought up as a JW. It seems incredible that religion can say it is all about peace and love and then persecutes people for something they cannot choose. I wish you could reach out to all those poor people praying and living a lie, trying not to be gay to stay a JW.
Peagreen
Ps sorry about all the typos - typed on my iPad without my glasses!
Peagreen
Andrew, what a great outlook you have. I am a long ago ex-catholic, I certainly don't believe in god, the bible or any other supernatural deity. I stumbled upon your blog as I wanted a bit more information about Jw's as theya re always calling round and bugging me. What baffles me is why religious people as so concerned with other peoples sexual habits, surely ones sexual orientation is ones own business? What goes on between two consenting adults is really nothing to do with anyone else so what are so many other people concerned about it? I see nof acceptance and/or tolerance within religion which for me misses the point. My husband commited suicide many years ago and the reaction from the church and my parents was unbelievable - apparently is poor tortured soul was destined to eiher rot in hell or suffer purgatory, great comfort to a widow! For me organised religion is one of the worst things to happen to mankind, it makes otherwise good people behave very badly and I find that very, very sad. Anyone of any sexual orientation should be allowed to live the life they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, you should be allowed to be gay and proud and have a happy life
Wonderer
Hi, I have question. A (now, sadly, former) friend of mine was born into a JW-family from which she was promptly cast out when she turned out to be gay. Now, after a couple of years she has decided to return to the church claiming that she 'has made some bad decisions' and that she 'has come to realize that she doesn't always know what's good for her'. I am extremely worried about her, even more so because she has cut herself off from all her friends, saying that becoming a JW again means that we cannot stay her friends. I don't know what to do and I was wondering if you could explain to me what her life will be like and what she will have to do in order to be accepted back into the church.
Thanks so much
Andres Torres
This happens often. People leave JWs because they want freedom to live as they please, but while they are out they never convince themselves that what they were taught was wrong. So, they go on feeling guilty about leaving until they've had enough and go crawling back.
Truth is your friend has done this to herself by failing to think critically about what she was taught. The JWs will treat her fine and accept her as one of their own, as long as she suppresses her sexuality. If she gives in to it she'll be shown the door again and undoubtedly will contact you for support.
Dave
Just an update.
My lease was ending and I decided to move in with my bf. I was trying to do this vet smoothly but we all know how nosey and question ridden jw mothers are.
So I finally came out to my mother and told her my plans. Her initial reaction was "youre my son, I'm you're mother, I love you and nothing will change that"
Two days later I get a long email loaded with articles and bible verses about homosexuality.
Two days after that I get a long email written from her. "You're going to kill your grandmother/ don't do this, you're signing your death slip/ all we've done for you and this is how you repay us/ you're going to hurt the family so much/"ext.
I read this email, all I read is "guilt trip/ guilt trip/ guilt trip". Never once did she ask how my struggle has been, or how hiding this for 30+ years has been for me. It's only about what makes it easy for her and my father and the rest of the family.
David
Hey;
This morning 2 J-W's people came to my door and I asked them a simple question
"What happens to Homosexual people in your congregation?" (I happen to be one, They happened to be apart of a religion, I was curious.)
Well they didn't answer, handed me some literature, then left.
I read the literature but it... Didn't answer Much. Anyway shortly after reading it I decided to turn to Google to find an answer and came across this article, and just wanted to thank you for writing it.
Andrew
Glad you liked it David, and welcome to JWB.
Peter
Ok I jumped on this page as was curious what people's opinions are on this subject.
I think Jehovas Witnesses in the US are very different from them in Europe. I am gay and grew up in a very strict household. My father once told me, if I ever came out to him he would kick me out of the house and never speak to me again.
That being said here a little of my story:
I was raised believing being gay was a sin, as also JWs in Europe preach the same thing. And yes I can see there are a lot of people that are being homophobic as they do not understand people that are gay. But that can be said for every religion not only JWs. I say religion as I personally don't believe it's a cult. When I turned 21 I came to the US for a summer and saw here in South Florida that being gay was as normal as anything else and that helped me a lot in building my self esteem. So when I returned to Europe I confronted the Elders and told them I wanted to leave as I was gay. They let me go no problems whatsoever, of course they tried talking to me, but they didn;t make a big deal out of it like some people write on here.
My friends still talk to me till this day. JWs in Europe cannot "Forbid" you to have contact to people that leave the congegration. The Watchtower society marily states its better for people in the religion not to have contact to people that leave so they would not follow them out ot the religion. But they cannot legally "Forbid" you contact. That is left with every persons own decision. So why people here say that you are not allowed to talk to them is kinda twisted. Maybe here in the US, but in Europe it is still your own decision in the end. And you don't get kicked out if you decide to keep talking to people that leave.
I was never treated bad by any JWs. I just left because their believes do not match with mine. But that goes for every religion out there who's followers try to live by the Bible's rules. The bible does not support a gay lifestyle, so that means that religion is not for me, that's all, no need for me to judge them.
Actually my friend told me that in one of the last speaches in the congegration members stated that homosexuality is not a choice but you are born that way. Since the bible does not support such a lifestyle gay people are being forced to fight a big fight everyday to not live out their sexuality. And gay people that choose not to act on their sexuality are actually being highly respected in that congegration as people understand they have a huge fight everyday.
So all in all I am gay and I was raised as a JW, left the congegration when I was 21, but never had any negative experiences like many on here. So for me I feel bad for you that the members in your congegrations are so narrow minded. But you cannot judge the religion for it. Every religion has its good and bad members. People that are being radical are never good no matter what religion they belong to. True JWs hate the sin, but they do not hate the person. I can personally say that as I have never been treated with hate by any JW.
David
My question to Peter would be, were you ever baptized?
If so, when you came to South Florida did you engage in anything that would have warranted disfellowshipping? If so, did you tell the elders that as you left?
One of the issues I have with the religion, if you are not baptized you can walk away, do what you choose and people can still have contact with you. However if you are disfellowshipped, people aren't allowed and can and will be disciplined for doing so.
If someone isn't baptized, they are free to leave and still associate. (It's frowned upon but not liable for discipline)
I'm thinking the US and Europe are similar, you may not have had the exact same circumstances others on here have had, and therefore had a different outcome.
cOURT
thats true! I live with my dis fellowshiped auntand we live directly across the street from my grandparent who are active JW's, My grandmother is a pioneer and my grandad is a ministerial servant. My aunt was a recovering alcoholic and was baptized but fell back into her addiction after her husband (who was not a JW) passed away..and I am her gay nephew. My grandparents do not accept homosexuality but I can still go over and check on them and have meals with them etc...whereas my aunt cannot. I think we feel a bond tho because neither one of us were good enough for the organization.
Andres Torres
Neither of you were "good enough"? Please don't think that way about yourself.
Andrew
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your comment. I live in Europe, and always have. I'll be frank with you - I don't believe you. That, or you had a completely unique experience. You are mistaken that JWs in Europe are so different from the US counterparts.
You've also missed the point that you shouldn't have to suppress your sexual preference just because JWs or the bible says you should.
Peter
Of course you shouldn't suppress your sexual preference. But you also cannot expect to be part of a religion that does not support that. That's why I left. And I live now in the US and see a lot of people here being more radical as in Europe. I have no clue where in Europe you live. I come originally from Germany actually a little town and like I stated never had any issues. Even the day I told my mom that I was gay, she cried. But she then told me she wasn't crying of the fact that I was gay, of course she wasn't happy about it. But she cried because she knew how she raised me (morals and values) and she also has seen that most of gay men were very promiscuous out there and she was crying because she kinda knew that I was going to get hurt alot which I did honestly as I might not be part of the religion anymore, but a lot of values still stayed with me.
Please don't take my story as ignorance to all the negative stories on here. I actually feel bad that so many had to go through so much hardship. It sadeness me. I just wanted to share that not all JW are like the ones that were discribed in the other stories. My experience might be unique but I do not believe so as I believe there are good and bad people out there.
The only hardship with me being gay I ever had was in highschool with other students, but never with JWs.
At the end of it all I believe in God, but I believe God is "Love" and love does not hate, and like it was stated before we were all born this way and since we all have been created in the image of the creator I do not believe that he judges us for being gay, that is a man made thing. Lets also never forget that the bible might have been inspired by God, but still was written by mortal heterosexual men with their own believes.
Les
My five cents worth is this: You could be a registered sex offender and still be a serving, baptized Jw. How do you do field service in such a capacity?
Something does not add up.
Matt
They can't even carry the microphone in the congregation, nor pray. It's taken very seriously
Andrew
Oh yeah, forget prison! Not being able to carry a microphone is taking it really seriously! What a deterrent!
Do you even realise how silly you sound?
Matt
I'm not sure about going door to door as a sex offender that's a Jehovah's Witness but I do know that a sex offender can not have ANY position of authority ever in the congregation, if it is known
cOURT
Matt, one of the things that really ate at me growing up in the congregation was the fact that my reputation as a gay person would indeed change the way I was allowed to serve within the congregation. Now,I say reputation and let me be clear that I never CAME OUT...even to this day I have never officially did that and I didn't have any form of any relationship until I was 19 and pretty much not going to the meetings on a regular basis but I live in a very small rural southern town (Alabama). Word gets around fast. I was always trying to hide the fact that I was gay..ALWAYS. I took extreme measures to try and ensure no one would learn my terrible secret but it never really worked for me (just really made me feel like a fool, as if every one could tell and i felt like I mustve looked ridiculous lying) So,,,I was still teased at school,called names like fag and queer although I was a virgin in all aspects. I didnt have any friends. I didnt want anyone to know who I was. I didnt want any attention. And here I am supposed to be spreading the good news to my peers but because (despite my exhausting efforts to hide it) they knew I was gay I felt really uncomfortable witnessing to them. I was always taught not to do anything that would bring reproach on God or the organization and I felt like by me giving witness to anyone it would send the message that JW's allow gays to be ministers. How do you get bullied, teased and tormented at school and then show up at their doors with your family? I heard a brother give a talk once and say that someone with such a rep shouldn't be representing the org. as it would cause others to stumble or make outsiders feel as tho it was ok and it wasnt.
cOURT
I felt like seperating myself from the organization that I was doing them a favor. A very low feeling...I had a very hard time growing up this way. Happiness in my youth was all but nonexistent. I didnt know what else to do.
Andrew
Matt, a person is not considered a sex offender by Jehovah's Witnesses unless there were TWO witnesses to the crime. Also, people who sinned a long time ago, say ten or more years, can be put into positions of authority again. Go look up the JW policies.
Alex
SOME people do in fact choose to be gay, and I've noticed huge differences between men who either chose it, are forced into it (prison/abuse), and were born with it.
The men who were forced into it, do so because if they were abused as children, and especially if they were in their teens; question their sexuality, and masculinity, as they become older- and often don't get the right help, because they are too ashamed to speak out. So they either re-enact their abuse by allowing other men to use them for sex, or they sadly molest children themselves, which makes them feel as if they have some sort of control in their life. Some child molesters of course do it, because they are attracted to the innocence of the child, which is very perverted, and I thought it was pathetic that an Awake magazine I believe in 1995, compared homosexuals, to child molesters.
Some men who become accustomed to it, do so in situations where there are no women, and either they use a man for sex, or are used themselves. This is usually in the prison environment, and these men continue this out of prison as well. It can also happen within the military. In my research I spoke with a Russian man, who remembers being raped, constantly, along with other new recruits, by higher ups. They'd have photos taken, and or video taped, constantly being threatened it would be shown to their families.
The men who choose it, always start out with having a curiosity- which is a normal feeling some guys may have. Some never act on it, and never think of it again. Some men will act on it, and learn it is not for them, so they never do nor think of it again. Some will act on it and enjoy it, but still enjoy sex with women- which would classify them as "bisexual". Some act on it, and enjoy it. Its the act of doing something taboo, rebellious, and forbidden they enjoy- along with the physical pleasure, and identify themselves as gay- and begin emulating what they believe to be gay behavior, or lifestyle... A lot of these guys will get into some extremely perverse things. There is also a lot of racism, ageism, disposable attitudes towards many of the men they bed, lies, drugs, promiscuity higher than that of heterosexual promiscuity- which is why the gay community has a higher rate of those with STDs/AIDS.
There's a predatory behavior among these guys, who also consider it a badge of honor to "seduce a heterosexual male". Highly superficial, and worshiping men deemed as "most desirable", and to some pretty unhealthy ends. Very materialistic, unfaithfulness, confusing love with lust, hate, vindictiveness, callousness- which is also considered to be "cool", feminizing of males, emulating male/female dynamic, depression when one is no longer seen as "desirable", and disappointment, when one doesn't find or get something, that looks like what they saw in a pornography.
Some of these men of this group, did things around. I've talked with many who no longer wanted to live this lifestyle, talked a lot about finding god, and wanting to live a clean life. Both the men who choose it, and are forced into it, remind me of what is condemned in the bible, and it can be corrected, if that person first wants to change, and then is given the proper help and support, because what they're doing has nothing to do with love, and companionship- which is what I see with guys who are born with it. For them its all about sex and the lifestyle.
Alex
Everyone gets it wrong.. Because a lot of people don't always understand what some of the words in the bible mean, along with the culture of the ancient world.
My best friend who was a JW, faced some harsh ridicule by his own family. He was told he "had a wicked spirit", or "Satan". He had all the scriptures that are believed to condemn him for what he feels, thrown in his face... However what is in those scriptures was not what he was feeling. He was shunned, brought before the elders who gave him the typical rubbish talk about changing. They wouldn't even let him express what's going on in his own heart, and couldn't answer any of his questions. This treatment of my friend, made me no longer want to call myself a JW. I didn't stop having faith, like becoming all atheist, nor did my friend; we just knew these guys, like in other denominations were wrong. It also made me do some serious research on homosexuality, and especially how it was viewed in the ancient world- and we both learned some very interesting things.
In all in the bible that condemns sexual acts between men, and how it was talked about... Didn't mirror my friend, nor did it mirror all of the men we've met in our research, who were just like him. The condemnation did however mirror everything about mainstream gay culture- which is something men like my friend, detest, and keep away from; because they find it degrading, disgusting, depressing, and disrespectful.
The most popular and heaviest one of all thrown at them is the "Man shall not lie with man as he would womankind". "To lie with", is an archaic (primitive) word for intercourse (keyword inter). Intercourse is when one person (male), places their genitals inside of another person, (naturally female) which would also be penetrative sex. Going to use the Greeks since its most popular, but it was interesting to learn, other cultures felt the same way about male/male relationships- and even before they knew the Hebrew god.
The Athenians (not ALL of them), practiced pederasty- in which an older male 30+, would take a boy, and although help him grow sharing wisdom, also used him for sex- "until the boy began to grow hair on his face". Which means these boys, had to be really young, and when they began to become men, they were no longer seen as "desirable". The Spartans did not like this, feeling it "feminized" young boys, robbing them of their manhood/masculinity; and they were right. These boys who have now become men, were not their own men- and had become used to being kept by other men. They'd end up becoming slaves, or temple prostitutes- and continue being kept and used by men- and were NOT seen or thought of as men. The Spartans often called Athenians "boy lovers" because of this.
The Spartan form of pederasty, was a boy who was around age 15-18, with another male who was 19-30; being taken under the wing of the man, to learn to be a man. This did not happen with every male (even in Athens), this was something done to males who had no fathers or older brothers- and quite often he was taught how to fight, but also learn the rules of society, to which if he behaved in ill manner, the man he was under- would be the one who'd face the trouble.
The intent was not for sex, though if the boy was in fact homosexual, (there was no word for such a thing in the old world), and admired the man a lot- that would probably happen as their bond grew. However it was the boy who chose the elder male, not the elder male choosing the boy. If the elder male was already mentoring a younger male, or in fact was in a romantic relationship with another male- he would refuse the boy, as it would not be seen as proper to accept him, in any way.
Anal sex with men, was not seen as ideal. It did happen of course, however it was considered illegal in many cases, and sometimes even punished- it wasn't as accepted as people today think. Socrates, who had penetrated many boys, was punished for "corrupting the minds of male youth". Anal sex was also shown in anything depicting pornography, which again was no depiction of ideal male love/relationship.
Two men who truly loved each other, respected each other's masculinity, manhood, warrior-hood/brotherhood (if they were soldiers/warriors/fighters), and viewed each other as equals- would never want the other male, or themselves to take on the role of a female, slave, or defeated enemy to be further humiliated (some used penetration to humiliate defeated enemies, Vikings were big on this). Such a thing was seen as unequal, disrespectful, dirty, degrading, unnatural, not an act of love (to do that to another man). Fidelity/loyalty were also big, so when two men were in fact involved- they did not share themselves with other men, you remained with that one man until death.
Regardless of one's sexuality, and especially if you were of importance- it was expected you take a wife, and produce children, to carry on your line, care for you in old age, and produce a citizen for the state (not everyone did though), and of course its much different in today's world. So, were these guy's intimate with each other? Yes they were, its not normal for a man to reject and suppress those feelings, the sex they had was non penetrative.
Interestingly, the men I met who are like my friend- follow the ideal way as it was seen in the ancient world. However they face a lot of ridicule from gay men, who follow the mainstream gay lifestyle/practices.
In the end, its what is in the heart that matters; as only god knows the true heart of someone. The ridicule, rejection, shunning, further making these guys feel unwanted, doomed, alone, and hated- does not remind me of anything Jehovah or Christ would be about- and certainly not someone would 'choose". That's one of the things that makes these guys very angry, when they are told they chose to be gay. Yet at the same time these men, refuse to run about being promiscuous. So yeah JW can be just as ridiculous as those in other denominations.
Steve
Alex, you stated: "Socrates, who had penetrated many boys, was punished for 'corrupting the minds of male youth'."
I would like to know the source of your information on this. I've read everything written about Socrates and have never heard him accused of having "penetrated many boys." In fact, in one dialogue he is criticized for failing to engage in homosexuality.
The charge of having "corrupted the youth" was based on his teaching them to use their minds and take a skeptical approach to the existence of the gods. It had nothing to do with pederasty (which would not have been seen as corrupting in ancient Greek culture.)
Dave
This article was amazingly written, and at the age of 30 it's so comforting to realize and learn of those that understand the struggle of being gay and a jw.
I have had so many positive and negative experiences growing up a JW. I spent my life mostly trying to understand why was I born this way and yet taught that what I felt was wrong. I thought I could resist my whole life and got baptized at 17. Way to young as I think back.
I've dealt with soo much the past 3 years in the organization. I finally moved out of my parents house and as I switched halls stopped attending cold turkey. I've now been dating a man I'm in love with for 10 months. I am now thinking of how Im going to tell my parents, as I have a large family that is all jws.
It's just so comforting to read experiences of others. I thought I was alone for so long.
D
Andrew
Hi Dave,
Glad you liked my article. You aren't alone at all, no! Be sure to join the JWB community on Facebook if you haven't already done so. And feel free to email us (andrew AT jehovahswitnessblog.com) if you need to chat, get advice or support.That's one reason we're here and created this site in the first place.
Pete Frances
Hey Andrew :)
Thanks for your comment. I agree with what you say. That is why I left, because I did want to find a partner and be happy. Since I can remember I have always wanted to get married at some point and have a family, hence I stepped out at the age of 18. I cannot say I have been always happy, as you know the gay scene can be somewhat overwhelming as not everyone out there is out for a partner but more for a partner for a moment ;)
But I understand where you are coming from. But don't hold it against the people. This is the believe of the JW. And it's not that someone in the congegration tells them, this is what we believe and we as the organization want you to live that way. JW are one of the few religions that live their lives strictly after what the bible says. Unlike many other religions who say they do but in fact their members still do whatever they want. Hence JW also do not tolerate people that have intercourse before marriage, as this also is a no go in the bible. Other religions just judge homosexuals but forget that they bible has a lot of rules for heterosexuals as well that they do not follow. But they overlook that and just make propaganda against gay people.
JW make it easy. They only say to be a JW you have to live your life after what the bible says. And since the bible does not support gay relationships, they do not tolerate someone being a part of the congegration and willingly braking the rules of the bible. They also part themselves of people that commit adultry, that are criminal, etc.. And it's not like they hunt you down to be a part of them. The elders tell you, if you want to live your life the way you want it step out and leave, it's up to you.
So I understand you do not tolerate a religion that lives their lives strictly after what the bible says, but don't judge them. The judgement would have to go against the men that wrote the bible. JW just believe that the bible is their complete guide to life. You and I do not agree with everything the bible says as we do believe that God still loves us no matter how we are born as were creating in his view. And we do believe that God is love and he judges people not for their sexual orientation but by how they live their lives. God sees the good in all of us.
I made the choice to not live by the rules of the bible. I do believe in God and I believe that he loves me no matter what. And if I cannot live out my lifestyle and be part of a religion then I choose not to be part of them.
But I still respect my friends for making their choice. And I hate other straight folks that judge them as they do not understand that they have a way bigger fight everyday than them. They do not only have to fight Satan on a daily basis like everyone else, but they also have to fight their own temptations and for that they should be respected.
You and I might think that they are depriving themselves from being happy with another partner. But their choice was to be happy only with God and themselves. That is their choice and we shouldn't judge them for that. We might disagree with them. But not judge. They are all still talking to me. I think the point that some people make that the congegration turns their back on people that leave is one thing.
The congegration cannot tell you whom you can have contact to and whom you can't. That is your own choice. They might tell you that its not good to be in contact with someone that does not live by the same rules as they do but they have no legal right you keep you from talking to that person.
Like many other religions there are always people that are fanatics and people that are more relaxed. I am originally from Germany and in Germany its way less strict than in some cases here in the US. I still have contact to all my friends on a daily basis.
That's why I always say you cannot judge a whole religion for actions individuals take. I have nothing but good experiences with them. And even though I choose to live my life differently, I still respect them a great deal.
Pete
Andrew
@Pete - I think you may have missed one of my points in my last comment - whether the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin or not, I can't understand why anyone would want to even worship a god who commanded such. Take out JWs for the moment - it's immoral for god to even say that homosexuality is a sin when people are born without a choice as to their sexuality. It's as simple as that. A god like that is cruel and malevolent and doesn't deserve worship.
As for the fact that JWs follow the bible, there are two main issues I take with that line of discussion. First off, so what if something is in the bible - it doesn't make it right. Even Jesus in the bible condoned slavery, but that doesn't make it right. I doubt you think slavery is a good thing either. There are many examples of principles or rules in the bible that are immoral and plain wrong. Secondly, the JWs do not follow what the bible says - take for example that the bible says that no one can know the day that the great tribulation will come, and that those saying they know are false prophets whom god hates. Jehovah's Witnesses have made dozens of predictions about this throughout their history. 1914, 1975, to name just two. Even now they say that the last days will end before the 'generation' has passed away. All predictions that go against bible teaching. There are DOZENS of other examples of JWs not following certain things in the bible, or twisting them to their liking.
I can judge a whole religion when it is the teachings of that religion that directly influence the behaviour of it's followers. No individual Jehovah's Witness would let their child die, for example, instead of give them blood, unless DIRECTLY taught by the religion's leaders. For a good person to do something bad, that takes religion.
Finally, I just want to clarify that I do not believe in god. Until someone provides evidence for the existence of god, I will not believe he exists, in the same way you will probably not believe in fairies until someone presents evidence for that.
Andrew
Pete Frances
Ok I gotta jump in on what Tom and others stated.
I was raised in a JW family. Unlike others I had only good experiences with them. Of course you see here and there a person that has a huge problem with a gay person. But that is everywhere. On the streets, everywhere you have people that are ok with it and others who aren't.
I just have to make a comment to the statements that are being made. That you cannot be homosexual and be a JW. That is absolutely wrong. That statement needs to be corrected.
You can be a practicing JW and be gay. Heterosexual people just need to get over it and accept that you are being born gay and not turn gay at a certain age. That is just ignorance. Hence you cannot turn heterosexual to be a JW.
As a JW you cannot "live" your life in a gay sense. Meaning you cannot have a boyfriend, live in a relationship and not because the congegration doesn't allow that but because if you want to live your life according to the believes of JW you cannot live a gay life. But that doesn't mean you cannot be a homosexual and be a practicing JW. You can be homosexual just cannot live a gay lifestyle.
That in the end is each individual person's own choice. I made my choice that I did not want to be single so I left. But I have lots of friends that decided to stay single and rather practice their believes, yet they are gay.
So just to correct the statement.
Cheers,
Pete
cOURT
WHERE ARE THESE CONGREGATIONS THAT ARE SO FULL OF LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE. THAT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE GAYS IN THEIR CONGREGATIONS?? SURELY NOT HERE IN ALABAMA. SURELY NOT.
EveH
I just don't understand that if it is not the choice of someone to be gay but they are born with it, how could God forbid something that a person cannot help??
Or do you think that God referred to only the act of not being allowed to "lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman" not the inclination? But in that case it would be unrighteous again since gay people should live their lives alone. OF course, this question only makes sense if we accept that God IS righteous, which I do.
Andrew
Hi Eve,
There you go. You've just worked out that god actually isn't righteous. He'd be cruel to forbid something which we know as fact is not a choice.
It's far more likely that the people who wrote the bible held morals that are 2000 years old and we have since worked out better morals. Perhaps you also think slavery is cruel, in which case you'd again be disagreeing with God and Jesus who both condoned it. The point here is that you have decided for yourself, against what the bible says, what is moral and what is not so even if god existed (which I don't think he does) you don't need him as he is not as moral as you. If he existed, why would you want to worship such a cruel being?
Food for thought.
Andrew
Hi Pete,
Thanks for commenting. Correct me if I am wrong, but your point seems to be that an individual can be homosexual and a Jehovah's Witness, just not living an active homosexual life. You are, of course, right.
I think the problem is that, as you say, people are born gay and it isn't a choice. That's what I said in my article. Your friends might decide to be celibate and live a life as a Jehovah's Witness, but that doesn't make it right - they are being condemned for how they were born. They are accepting that there is something wrong with them, that they are not normal, which is a disgusting thing for the Organization to put them through.
It's as if the Jehovah's Witnesses said that some people have black skin but as long as they live their life shunning the African American culture, then they are okay in god's eyes. Same principle applies with homosexuality, and in my opinion your friends shouldn't want to worship a deity who demands such a thing - you are born in sin, yet commanded to be perfect?
As you said, it is their individual choice how their life is led, but I personally don't understand why they'd want to be servile and deny themselves the happiness that every human is entitled to. I think it's a shame.
Andrew
Teresa
I guess none of you read my comment about Tlyer Clementi he the one who jumped off the Gw bridge in 2010. He roomate was found gulity. It don't matter if he was a Jehovah's witness or not, im just shocked that nobody answered my comment. All Gay victims should be more respected and pray that no one else wil kil themselves or jump off a bridge.
Ben
Sorry, Teresa, I didn't see a question in your comment that needed answering. Of course, we agree with you that everyone should be respected regardless of sexual preference.
Regards,
Ben
Brad
My mother equated my confession of being gay with the death of her son.
She even reasoned that suicide was a better way out because I'd be granted heterosexuality and perfection in the new system. Stupid cult.
Tom Rook
This entire thread of thought shows how sloppy people think.
Let's say you were a United States Marine, had taken the oath to give all that you were, are, or ever could be to defend the Republic with your life, your fortune, and your sacred honor ..... everything you are .....
... but along comes World War II and ... being of German Heritage, and having sympathies for the homeland of your fathers ... you decide to embrace National Socialism, return to Germany, and fight for the Third Reich.
THE EXACT SAME THING IS THE CASE WITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.
You cannot be a practicing Jehovah's Witness AND be a homosexual.
You want it both ways ... and that is impossible under the oath that Jehovah's Witnesses give when they dedicate their lives, souls, and all they will ever be to serve Jehovah God.
There is a word in the Marines for abandoning your oath of fealty, allegiance, duty and honor ..... and there is a word equally applicable and quite valid for when a person wants to be a JW AND be a homosexual ....
.... the word is TREASON.
Every civilized nation in the world realizes that the treasonous person deserves execution,and in the United States Marines, they used to hang traitors by the neck until dead.
Or shoot them.
The civilians Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of selling U.S. Hydrogen Bomb secrets to the Soviets ... and for their treason they were executed in the electric chair, in New York, if memory serves.
I can just see the hypothetical Marine, or the Rosenbergs now, "BOO HOOO HOOOoooo.... all our friends have ostracized and abandoned us just because we believe differently than THEY do ... It is not FAIR! What a bunch of bigots and unreasonable people!"
Grow up.
...
Ben
Tom,
I am truly saddened by your, sorry to say, ignorant comment. You obviously missed the point of the article which said homosexuality isn't a choice.
And to say Jehovah's Witnesses are a religion of love, then to read vile thoughts like yours condemning people for who they are... it's a joke, and you should be ashamed of yourself and the despicable cult of Jehovah's Witnesses should be too.
To show how gross and sickly your comments are, replace the word 'gay' with 'black'. Jehovah's Witnesses used to teach that black people were full of sin and that god would make them perfect and white in the new system (Click here to read about it). I'd hope you'd see how their racism was obviously incorrect and inhumane. Same story here.
I also find it strange that you would defend a religion that also condemns you for being a soldier...
Ben
Matt
Wanting what you want is not a choice. The choice is what action you take. You can choose not to have sex. That what the Bible says the sin is. The sin is not desiring someone of the same sex it is having sex with the same sex. That comes not from "Jehovah's Witnesses" but it comes from the Bible.
Matt
I suppose I am missing your point because in this comment I was only responding to what was written about what is and is not a choice. I was not referring to what a person is being denied in terms of a loving relationship. I didn't realize that we were also talking about that as well. I understand that completely because I live it and I agree that I am not able to have a loving relationship with the same sex and continue to be a JW.
Everyone has a basis for their morals and values. They normally come from their religion, parents, culture and peers. Mines come from those things and because I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses I believe in what the Bible says.
I am basing my statements off of my belief in God first and then on my belief in the Bible and also what the Bible says.
I think we are actually talking about two different things again. Hear I believe you are saying that it is wrong for a religion to deny a person the ability to have a loving relationship whether it be gay or straight and I believe your basis is what your inner sense of right and wrong is saying and how you feel
Matt
Being attracted to people of the same sex is not a choice just like being attracted to people of the opposite sex is not a choice. The choice is whether the person who is attracted to the opposite or same sex will seek out a person to have sex with. The choice comes in when you like a person are you going to keep thinking about having sex with them or are you going to dismiss the thought.
Matt 5:28 applies to both gay and straight people. A Jehovah's Witness doesn't get in trouble if they just thought about a person but If a person not just looks but KEEPS looking at a woman or man then they will give into the temptation because it is in their heart to do it with that person. This scripture is showing that it makes it easy to give in when you keep thinking about that person. This scripture shows that what you do is a choice. It's didn't say anything about it being wrong to have the actual desire for the woman but it is wrong to KEEP looking at her, or not dismiss the thought that popped up of having sex with her or him for that matter
Andrew
Matt you miss the point. It isn't ONLY about sex. It's also having a relationship. You are denied a loving relationship too.
Andrew
What about Matthew 5:28 which says, "But I say to YOU that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Being gay is not a choice, just as being black or white is not a choice, and people should not have to adjust their lives because of it. If you are gay, be gay. If you are straight, be straight.
Teeny
I take it by your comment that you're gay. If this is your "outing", you've done an okay job...
Lacy
Teeny,
I want to thank you for such a nice article. As a lesbian, my gut reaction is to cringe whenever I see articles about gay people because I assume it is going to be something negative. It is such a relief to see straight people sticking up for us and understanding us. Thank you!
I grew up a JW until I was 25. It took me that long to realize I was a lesbian because I was such a goody-goody JW that it never occurred to me that the reason I never dated, was horrified by the idea of marriage to a man, and didn't have the crushes on boys like my other friend's had was because I was a lesbian (and let's face it, if you are a female JW and are still unmarried by age 20, something is probably wrong with you!).
I knew I didn't like men, but wouldn't admit I liked women. Looking back, there were glaringly obvious signs and it apparently did not come as a shock to a lot of people except me. It took a female fellow JW admitting she was in love with me to open my eyes. And even that took a while to process. Funny thing was, I could easily pinpoint gay brothers in the congregations and couldn't figure out why no one else realized they were gay. One fellow JW was your classic stereotypical effeminate gay male (even was a huge fan of show tunes and Broadway) and when he started dating a fellow sister I was horrified! It just seemed so wrong to me, like it was unnatural for him to be doing that. There is no doubt in my mind that he is gay and I just hope that by now he has figured it out and hasn't married that girl. But to the JWs, the gay guy marrying the straight girl would be fine. Despite totally being gay even if he wasn't sexually active, he was approved to be a pioneer and ministerial servant. Which also bothers me: how does not being sexually active mean you are not gay? Does a straight person not being sexually active mean they are not heterosexual?
I got Disfellowshipped after the sister who was in love with me told an elder's wife in confidence. Of course, there is no such thing as in confidence among the JWs. Even though having never done anything physical with each other, we were both Disfellowshipped within days. We were called all sorts of mean names, they rushed the entire process without using the Bible, praying, or following the standard procedures. In fact, we weren't Disfellowshipped for being lesbians because we hadn't actually done anything at that point. They told us we were never allowed to see or speak to each other again and we disagreed that that was the best option. We even asked for chaperoned visits with each other as friends or just to talk to each other in the Kingdom Hall. They said no to everything and officially Disfellowshipped us for "not obeying the elders". Still haven't found that command in the Bible yet.
Like the sister wrote about above, this all went down within days of the Circuit Overseers visit and they just wanted us out instead of trying to lovingly help us. The best part was when the one elder tried to tell me that lesbianism was wrong because a woman could never sexually satisfy another woman as well as a man could. I have never been with a man and at that point still had not been intimate with a woman, yet it was all I could do not to burst out laughing at such an absurd remark!
Ironically, it was the Watchtower that helped me accept my homosexuality and finally embrace who I am and leave the Organization. I was trying to be reinstated and was researching articles on homosexuality in the publications to help me rid myself of my "problem". I found an article written by a "former" gay man who is now an elder married to a woman. He wrote of how he daily has to pray not to have those desires. I realized that if this is something he admits to having to try to suppress on a DAILY basis despite having sex with the opposite sex and firmly believing it is a sin, then this is just something that is an ingrained part of a person and you can't pray the gay away no matter how hard you try. It is just naturally who some people are (thus not going against Romans 1:24-27).
I also felt horrible for the man's wife who had to have read that and has to deal with the fact that her husband is not sexually attracted to her and is likely just married to her because he feels like that is what he is supposed to do. Who wants their spouse to need to pray to have the urge to sleep with them? I would never do that to a man.
So I would like to thank the elders for their unscriptural disfellowshipping of me, the Organization for helping me see the actual Truth, and you for your lovely article.
Lacy
Sorry, the browser you are using is not currently supported. Disqus actively supports the following browsers:
FirefoxChromeInternet Explorer 8+Safari
This page is forcing your browser to use legacy mode, which is not compatible with Disqus. Please see our troubleshooting guide to get more information about this error.
We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
joshua
i would like to make a comment about my treatment as a gay person in the jehovah witness faith (of which i was disfellowshipped december 2012). i hid my sexuality from the ages of 11 to 17. from the age of 17, it became slowly known to my congregation that i was gay, or that i may have homosexual tendencies. a few of my close friends who were jehovahs witnesses knew i was gay, i could confide in them, and we joked about it. that was one side of it. the other side hurt me deeply. after my second judicial hearing (again because of homosexual conduct) i heard a report that a certain young brother, the same age as myself, had been warned to either not asscoiate with me, or at least severly limit association with me. i didnt take too much notice of this at the time, but then other young guys had also been approached and told by the elders not to have many dealings with me. it hurt because i was trying to build a name for myself, a good name, especially since i had recently ruined my name by having been reproved for the 2nd time. how could i build up a good name and reputation again, including building up social ties, when the elders of my congregation were going around telling other members that i could be a possible threat to them, making me out as some sexual devient and corrupting others? i was ashamed enough of slipping up again, but to know that many in the congreagtion was being warned about me and that then led to gossiping throughout the whole congregation, and of course the elders breaking their promise to keep my judicial matter a secret and hidden away, i just couldnt look at anyone in the kingdom hall again after that. however, back some years, when i was 17, and too had been warned by 2 different elders at 2 different times about another brother who had recently engaged in homosexual activity and that i too should stay away from him. i also heard of another report of a young brother in my former congregation who was suspected of being gay, and other youngsters being warned away from him. when you are gay and a jehovahs witnesses, you dont make it known you are gay. ive known many gay jw's, but most of them hide it and keep it secret, and of course they lead good lives in the organization (what i mean here is that they get no trouble from it as no-one knows). however, if you are known as a gay person, or suspected of being a gay person, and definetly, if you have a known history of homosexual conduct before becoming a witness or whilst being a witness, then life is made very difficult for you and the elders dont tolerate you as much. my presiding overseer at the time, would hardly talking to me again after my first judicial. but the fact of the matter is, i have personally experienced life as a secret gay jehovahs witnesses - and it was fine - as long as it was hidden - but when known as a gay jehovahs witnesses, then the story is different. its hard. knowing that elders are warning people away from you, people you want to be friends with, it tears you apart. it did for me. i dreaded going into that kingdom hall in the end. i didnt want to speak with anyone or even look at anyone. and what right did the elders think they had over my perosnal information that they should hand it around so freely to others? in the end i became isolated. for those out there who say being a jehovahs witness and gay is fine and no problem, well, ive been there and ive experienced first hand. 2 other people from the same congregation as me also had exactly the same happen as well. my heart goes out to all gay jehovahs witnesses who are still in this religion. i know the pain they are going through. i know how difficult their lives are with trying to hide who they are and combat their feelings. i really hope that many of these will wake up from watchtower bondage and finally live their lives in the way they deserve, a happy fulfilled life, knowing the joy that comes from loving someone intimately and no longer having to live a lie. thanks for reading.
Rebecca Rohr
I just came across this interesting article. I want to thank Christopher Johns wherever he is for writing that encouraging e-mail. I'm a gay ex-jw and I didn't and don't have the strength to do what he does. Most people don't. Whether you believe it's right or wrong, he undeniably is a brave man to live and struggle like that every day indefinitely. Tysm
Max
The Watchtower has had in print that they do not claim any cause for being homosexual whether they were born gay, or became gay. Furthermore what they have stated in print is that no matter what one's inclinations may be, if someone is to be found acceptable by god then they need to live by god's standards as found in the bible. The bible states that men that lay with men will not inherit god's kingdom. The bible states that homosexuality is a gross mortal sin. What the FDS has put in writing is that just as some men may be more inclined to anger, they need to not act on their anger and try to be peaceable among others just as the bible says. The same goes for anyone that has urges or attractions that may be against god's will... Even if someone has homosexual feelings or urges, what is most important is that they do not act on their inclinations and that they try their utmost to live by god's righteous standards. As humans we are all imperfect. As Christians we all are to follow Christ's example and be loving amongst ourselves. The brother that wrote the above letter never stated his age. Perhaps he is in his 20's or 30's (if age even matters), and perhaps only his immediate family and the elders have been made aware of his homosexual thoughts. However, despite this, if he does not openly discuss his inclinations with the congregation, and as long as he does not act out any sinful behavior then there is absolutely nothing to be reproved nor disfellowshiped of. The fact that the elders welcome him within the congregation id simply proof of their Christ-like spirit. The fact that this brother still attends meetings and strives not to act on his strong homosexual urges is simply proof of his love for god and his upright standards. Anyone stating anything to the contrary doesn't truly love god. Most people in the world simply want to hear that it's okay to do whatever they want. This is why so many churches of Christendom allow and support homosexuality and other sinful behavior that is forbidden in god's word. It is useless to serve god if you're not going to do it his way. Showing effort no matter how much is needed proves true love and loyalty toward god, and that is what is to be rewarded in the end.
Josiah(not the king) :)
I think that this is horribile,he clearly needs help.I don't know how you can be an ative Jehovah'stWitness and still be practicing such unrightiousness.He needs to be aware of the severe consequences and talked to by a n elder that may be able to help.Its a shame that there are people like this that they have accepted themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses and others have included them in there activities without addressing the problem,I understand a talk with a friend or a liesurly activitie but something must be done.
Andrew
@Josiah - I am not sure I follow your comment completely. Are you saying being a homosexual is 'unrighteous'? If so, I think you're the one who needs help.
I am so sick of intolerant, ignorant, think they are better than other people, Christians, all based on an ancient and immoral book.
Jason
I just though I would add, just from my own experience, when you're a teenager and gay in the org things aren't too bad socially as most of the teenagers in the different congregations I attended use to go out all the time in groups. The groups weren't a bunch of people who were dating eachother, just single people who hung out as friends, so you didn't feel left out socially.
However, when you are in your twenties and older, that's when things start to affect you a lot more, as most of your friends are now starting to look at eachother with dating and marriage in mind. This is when someone being gay now starts to cause intense feelings of isolation and depression as they either have to accept a life knowing they can never allow themselves to fall in love and settle down with someone, fake it and marry a sister and have secret hook-ups on the side, or worse start drinking or drugs to deal with your feelings, or leave the organisation and just be who you are without apology.
That's why whoever wrote this letter is either gay, still in their teens and embellished quite a bit, or isn't gay and has just made to whole thing up to make the JW religion seem very accepting of people, which we all know it is far from accepting.
Jason
I stopped going about 5 years ago now. After 2 years out I found I had managed to completely unindoctrinate myself. It's true what they say...Knowledge leads to freedom, especially from baseless beliefs.
I feel bad for the people that feel they need to remain in because of family ties. My father and all his side of the family are still in, but once I reached the end of my tolerance for the orgs dribble and rules and people's constant remarking on every little thing you do that they think might be classed as unchristian, there was no hesitation.
At the age of, well, 30 something, I can finally live honestly. It really does feel like you're starting your life from the beginning again. I'm just glad I saw the light before I got really old and had no time left to begin again.
Ben
@Jason - I understand completely - I am 26 and very grateful that I wasn't in my 50s or 60s and looking back on a wasted life. It's like starting fresh when you leave the cult!
Regards,
Ben
Jason
I think his letter is full of crap. I'm gay and a born-in. I knew I liked boys before I was even old enough to understand what this religion teaches. To say you are not supressed is a outright lie. If you are gay, you can never talk about it openly, never date someone or allow yourself to fall in love like everyone else. The moment you do, you would either be reproved for talking about it, or disfellowshiped if you ever dated someone and didn't repent.
His talk about being beaten up and called names by worldly people sounds like a lie as well unless of course he is very feminine in his speech and mannerisms, which he would be counselled about by the elders. Unless he behaved like a sterotypical gay guy as usually portrayed in the media, most people would never think he was gay by looking at him, so he wouldn't be beaten up on account of that.
The fact he says homosexuality is unnatural shows how stupid the Watchtower Corporation like to keep their followers. How about this for a shocker.....incest is also natural, it occurs in nature. It may not be beneficial as far as offspring goes in humans, but it is part of the natural world.
I'd love to see how loving these people would be if he confessed his love for another brother. Which is highly doubtful as I think he's a liar from the things he wrote. He might be gay, but that would be as far as it goes truth-wise in his letter.
As a side note, maybe he should look up the definition of a cult and he would see in black and white that it fits the definition to a tea.
I guess if you can get someone to believe that the bible is true, they'll believe anything as long as it doesn't contradict it.
Ben
@Jason - Thanks for your comment. You obviously dislike the Jehovah's Witnesses - are you still trying to get out of the cult or did you manage to escape already?
Regards,
Ben
Sampson amens
Is it me, or has this Christopher simply said he is a gay Jehovah's Witness with the intention of trying to make out his cult isn't flawed?
Shaun
First he claims to be gay and accepted in the congregation cause they follow the bible. Wonder what the flaw in that part there is... How about they'd instantly throw the 'man must not lie with another man' at him which is in their bible.
Second. Doesn't the last bit seem dodgey. He's gay and they accept him. He says its a sin and so is incest. So if he is accepted for being gay, are they accepting incest in their congregations as well?
And 'god' loves everyone so much that he said if they follow their natural feelings that are made in 'his image' that they'd be punished. If someone is gay, its not a disease or some curable thing like they make out. 'stop being gay or you'll not be in gods paradise' yeah cause the bible magically stops someones natural feelings cause being gay is in league with the devil.
Some people are just so close minded.
Anyway. I think that his email is total junk and obviously fake.
Just someone trying to denounce those denouncing jehovahs kingdom cause they blindly follow a book that claims itself to be a good book. Harry potter might be a good book but i'm not running around in a cape, waving a stick around shouting 'stupify' just cause its in a book
Ben
@Shaun: Though a religion based on Harry Potter might be more interesting...
Ben
No comments:
Post a Comment