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The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Doubts
Posted on June 10, 2016
 

Like myself, my wife was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and has always loved reading. When she was around 7 years old, she was reading through a science book and came across a chart detailing the evolution of the horse through the ages.
She was so excited about what she discovered, she ran to tell her mother. Her mother, of course, told her how wrong that book was and that it was not true. She taught her that Jehovah created all things and that evolution was a lie.
My wife points to this moment as the earliest memory of having to repress doubt as a Jehovah’s Witness.
How are doubters portrayed by Jehovah’s Witnesses?
The 2016 Remain Loyal to Jehovah! Regional Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses has stood out to many as unique. In 36 years of attending and viewing conventions, I have never seen one like this. It stands out as a desperate attempt on the part of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to scare and manipulate current members who may be doubting into staying in the organization.
For instance, during the symposium talk “Be Loyal As Jesus Was – When Abandoned”, a video was played that portrayed a Jehovah’s Witness named Sergei finding out that a close friend of his had “left the truth.”


There is a lot to say about that video; however let’s focus on what led Alexei to leave the truth. Alexei’s wife says,

“A workmate began feeding his mind with doubts about the organization. Pretty soon, those doubts turned into belief…[insert dramatic sigh]…and he left.”
The message from this video is clear: doubts will make you leave the organization.
In a 2001 article entitled “Do not let doubts destroy your faith,” the Watchtower compares having doubts to being infected with a virus.

“You probably also do all you can to avoid exposing yourself to viral or bacterial infection. Do you, however, exercise the same care when it comes to remaining ‘healthy in faith’? (Titus 2:2) Are you, for example, alert to the danger posed by insidious doubts?”
The Watchtower here is implying that doubts have a mind of their own. They can be “fed” to an individual. Watchtower wants you to believe that they can behave like a viral or bacterial infection, spreading and infecting the person, turning into “belief” and causing a person to leave the organization.
That makes doubts sound pretty scary! Perhaps a doubter should play it safe and just believe everything they’re told and suppress the doubt. Wait a minute, though. Doesn’t Proverbs 14:15 say that “the naive person believes every word”? So what should a doubter do?
Is Doubt Bad?
sahib-singh-keep-calm-and-never-doubtThe same 2001 article also acknowledges that it is sometimes okay to doubt. Under the subheading “Doubt—Is It Always Bad?” the article states:

“Of course, not all doubt is bad. At times, you need to suspend acceptance of something till you are sure of the facts. Religious exhortations to the effect that you should just believe and should doubt nothing are dangerous and deceptive.”
In practice, that sounds like actual good advice. However, in reality, ‘just believe and doubt nothing’ is exactly what Watchtower asks of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
In paragraph 16 of that same article, asking such questions as ‘Are we really living in the last days? Can you believe everything the Bible says? Is this truly Jehovah’s organization?’ is likened to Satanic propaganda.

“Satan would love to plant doubts like these in your mind. Do not let a negligent attitude toward spiritual feeding leave you easy prey to his deceptive teachings. (Colossians 2:4-7) Follow the advice given to Timothy. Be a good student of “the holy writings” so that you can “continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe.”—2 Timothy 3:13-15.”
Interestingly, “being a good student” through personal study and “spiritual feeding” is what many who have left the organization point to as the source of their doubts. Personally, that was the case for me.
My Experience With Doubt and Personal Study
Though I had been baptized for more than 20 years, I experienced renewed zeal after I attended the 2014 Regional Convention; the convention that first initiated the now widespread use of video presentations. One video in particular impacted me deeply.


After watching that video and listening to the other parts in the program, I gave in to the emotional manipulation and resolved to “do more in Jehovah’s service.” I stopped missing meetings for trivial reasons. I increased my service time by 200%. I also started to do more Bible reading and personal study of Jehovah’s Witness publications.
I had been diligent at studying in my teenage years; however I had never really carried out serious personal study during the age of the internet. One of the first things I researched was the doctrine of 1914 and how the organization arrives at that date. The date of Jerusalem’s destruction by Babylon is important to the doctrine of 1914, as it is used as the starting point for a series of calculations that arrive at the 1914 date. Suffice it to say, when I Googled, I specifically stayed away from so-called “apostate” websites, and stuck with secular and academic sources.
When I Googled “Destruction of Jerusalem,” I found that the overwhelming consensus among academics was that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 587 B.C.E. In fact, no one on earth, except for Jehovah’s Witnesses, believes that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.
This made me uncomfortable, so I looked up more information in the Watchtower Online Library. The answers I found were lacking in evidence and filled with logical fallacies. The argumentation the organization offered basically boiled down to; “Trust the Bible more than you trust the historical and archaeological evidence these people have found.”
I was not reading Satanic propaganda. I was only examining the evidence.
It was an emotionally turbulent time for me. On the one hand, I had all the hard, verifiable evidence telling me one thing, and on the other I had the organization and my emotions wanting me to ignore that evidence and believe Watchtower teachings nonetheless.
There eventually came a tipping point, and I decided to rely on on the evidence.
Thus began my path out of Watchtower’s indoctrination, and towards true freedom of the mind.
If You Have Doubts
doing-researchSo, what if you are having doubts? What should you do?
Well, why not follow the advice of the organization from that same 2001 about doubts?

“A loving Christian is certainly ready to believe those who have proved trustworthy in the past. But God’s Word also warns against ‘putting faith in every word.’ (Proverbs 14:15)”
Yes, the organization warns us not to put faith in every word, yet be ready to believe those who have proved trustworthy in the past. So, how do you know if an organization has proven trustworthy in the past? Research the history of the organization and examine if their claims and doctrine have proven trustworthy.

“Sometimes a person’s past record gives legitimate reason for doubt. “Although [the deceptive talker] makes his voice gracious,” the Bible warns, “do not believe in him.”—Proverbs 26:24, 25.”
Yes, let the organization’s past record speak for itself. Examine the facts and see if it does not give legitimate reason for doubt. The organization has extensive practice seasoning their words “with salt” – thereby making their words appear gracious. Are they being deceptive? Again, that is for you, the reader, to judge.
The apostle John also warns Christians against blind belief. “Do not believe every inspired expression,” he writes. Rather, “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” (1 John 4:1) An “expression,” a teaching or opinion, might appear to emanate from God. But did it really come from him? Exercising some doubt, or suspending belief, can be a real protection because, as the apostle John says, “many deceivers have gone forth into the world.”—2 John 7.
Yes, heed this advice. The organization’s doctrines might appear to come from God or Holy Spirit, but is that really the case? Why not do what they suggest and exercise some doubt and suspend belief until you examine the evidence?
A Unique Opportunity
magnifying-glass1The 2016 Remain Loyal to Jehovah! Regional Convention is an excellent opportunity to put aside confirmation bias, examine the evidence, and examine the organization. There are many people that claim that the organization is a harmful cult or high-control group. The organization denies this. Why not examine the evidence at this Summer’s convention?
Here is a handy guide to identifying if an organization is a harmful high-control group; a recognised model developed by Steve Hassan, an expert in dealing with dangerous high-control organisations. Take this list, go through every part and video at the 2016 convention and compare with this list. What does the evidence show?
That, dear reader, is for you to decide yourself.
 
By JW Survey contributor Sean McGee, A.K.A. Cappytan
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Editors note: Huge thanks to Sean for contributing this article. You can check out his YouTube channel here.
Here are a few of the videos waiting of you!




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← The Worst Convention Ever – Part 3: Sergei’s Story
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53 Responses to The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Doubts

 Dwc says:

 June 10, 2016 at 1:18 pm
 

What an awesome post!! I hope to do one of these Friday posts one day.
i am currently at my Friday convention (last ever) and I am taking extensive notes. I cannot believe the difference an awakened view of this doctrine takes on now that I look at everything through a different light.
Id be happy to share my notes after the weekend to anyone who is curious.
But make no mistake the WTBS is using the standards that God has laid out in the bible and at every turn they twist them into fear obligation and guilt!
Reply
 

 Cappytan says:

 June 10, 2016 at 1:29 pm
 

Thanks…I’m glad to say, my last official convention was last summer. It is a surreal experience attending while awake to the lies.
Reply
 

 John ship says:

 June 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm
 

Ive been awake around a year but ive promised to take my wife to friday and sunday. Ive seen some of the awfull vids and the unfit for children bunker vid this will be my last convention .first was 1964 .how things have changed i cant believe it.the “new” GB are self dedtructing the org..
Reply
 

 Will says:

 June 10, 2016 at 2:18 pm
 

Great article. My last convention was in 2014— 100 years of the kingdom. I was miserable. I told myself that I was never doing another convention. 1914 was just an elaborate Watchtower lie.
Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 10, 2016 at 3:31 pm
 

The way I see it 1914 was a miscalculation that became a lie due to a lack of humility and and an unhealthy desire for power.
Have not attended a convention since 2013 and happier for it.
WS

 
 
 
 

 Chantal says:

 June 10, 2016 at 4:46 pm
 

My last official convention was last summer as well. Only went Sunday. That was too much. Lies, video, and propaganda
Reply
 
 
 

 JBob says:

 June 10, 2016 at 2:10 pm
 

I wish I had been more aware of being at my “last ever” convention.
But I disagree that this convention is somehow “unique,” perhaps you were not aware of the full-court press GB v1.0 put forth during the first wave of dissents after 1975, and during the early 1980s. If the word ‘loyalty’ could have been worn away through use, the years when numbers were diving like kamikaze piloted planes would have been when that word was eroded from the dictionary by use in talks and publications. There may be some nuances to material presented at this convention, but from what I’ve seen leaked, nothing is new.
The bunker videos are derivatives of years of KH legend and talk in service cars through the years as some speculated on “great tribulation” days. No sentiment, my club foot. These are throwbacks (or callbacks, if you’re really old) to those pre-1975 memories of speculative talk.
Reply
 

 Adam Heckathorn says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:40 am
 

JBob I think you are right and I think if there were those still alive who lived through many other dates of the end pre 75 and they knew about the internet they would be putting their two cents worth in the this is not new topic. We see what we want to see unless the c
 ognitive dissonance finally forces us to admit to ourselves “This cannot possibly be true.”

Reply
 
 
 
 

 Brother from Austria says:

 June 10, 2016 at 1:49 pm
 

Thank you for this very good article!
Reply
 
 

 rob says:

 June 10, 2016 at 1:57 pm
 

I remember many times hearing from the platform the words “make sure of all things” but unfortunately the witness religion does not allow this.
An inability to question anything that is printed in the watchtower and an inability to speak freely and express doubts, is like living in a prison with no walls.
I am so glad that I no longer have to punch my time card for this corporate religion and no longer have to adhere to the many pharasiacal rules.
As this religion becomes more radical and tightens the grip even further on its members, and as members come to realize that the burden becomes heavier and heavier – which is contrary to what Jesus wanted for his followers –
they may finally realize that this is not what they initially signed up for and just call it quits.

I believe that we will never see a sudden exodus from this religion but a continued hemorraging of people who just can no longer stay in a religion that is trying to hide the mess behind the curtain.
Reply
 

 Big B says:

 June 10, 2016 at 3:48 pm
 

@ Rob
I concur with you; and what a smelly mess it is! No matter how they try to visually hide their corruption from their adherents they can’t hide the smell. Especially from anyone who can use the internet. The information is out there for those brave enough to look.
Like a rotten fish not only does it ‘stink on ice’ it (the Watchtower Organization & current seven mental dwarfs calling themselves the spirit inspired/guided Governing Body) ‘stinks from the head’.
This money grubbing, time-bandit, covetous cult is no different than any other televangelist organization. Power over people is their mantra and trying to get money is what this ‘Organization’ is all about; doing so through the time honored practices of FOG (Fear Obligation & Guilt).
They are indeed hemorrhaging with more than 2 leaving the organization for every 1 brought in. Maybe they could use a transfusion of money or more ‘New Light’. Any donors, anyone?
On average, over 500 partook of the emblems at the Memorial over a 10 year period of time. The Governing Body has no control over these figures. Can they explain this? Will they admit that the 144,000, like everything in Revelation, is symbolic?
 Will Armageddon be brought on by Jesus’ armed angelic host and bring the Satanic world to an ignominious end, and save them from the further embarrassment of releasing more New Light?

So kiddies, stay tuned next time for the further adventures of “the implosion of the Watchtower”!
Brought to you by jwsurvey.org and many others reporting on the truth about the ‘Truth’ to help you unburden yourself and lighten your load.

Oh, great article Sean! Enjoyed it immensely.
Reply
 
 
 

 Fred says:

 June 10, 2016 at 2:18 pm
 

Would Jesus wear a Rolex on JW Broadcasting?
 We must let Watchtower answer:

*** w90 2/1 p. 25 pars. 19-20 Exposing “the Man of Lawlessness” ***
19 The worldliness of some clergy has even been exposed in the media in recent times, as for example the licentious and luxurious life-styles of some TV clergymen. One modern songwriter composed a song with the title: “Would Jesus Wear a [$10,000] Rolex [watch] on His Television Show?” The song goes on to say: “Would Jesus be political if He came back to earth, have His second home in [luxurious] Palm Springs and try to hide His worth?” In addition, more and more clergymen condone or practice homosexuality. Even now the Catholic Church in the United States is paying millions of dollars in damages to compensate for priests guilty of sexual abuse of children.—Romans 1:24-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.
 20 Such wrongdoing cannot be ignored by God’s servants but must be exposed for the benefit of others. The great crowd of other sheep must be protected from those who would try to lead them to break God’s laws. And those “sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done” need to be searched out and gathered to the protective guidance of the Great Shepherd, Jehovah God, and “the fine shepherd,” Christ Jesus.—Ezekiel 9:4; John 10:11; Proverbs 18:10.

Reply
 
 

 Darth Fader says:

 June 10, 2016 at 2:43 pm
 

Awesome Friday Article! I had “doubts” and w13 11/15 para 17 (3) confirmed them. The ORG belives it should be blindly obeyed without question. The 2016 convention videos scream “CULT”. People need to wake up and ask questions or they will end up trapped in a basement. Doubt and questioning are built in survival tools that can save your life
 The 2016 convention videos are so incredibly difficult to watch. I would rather wear a flatulent elephant as a helmet then ever have to watch them again.

Reply
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 6:23 am
 

DF,
 You’ll be happy to know that it is scientifically confirmed that flatulent elephant helmets, while somewhat uncomfortable, are significantly more useful than the 2016 convention videos at repelling cultists. The data can be found here:

http://www.flatulent-helmet-studies.com
Reply
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:21 am
 

I’m getting reports the link is broken.
 Sorry bout’ that.

Reply
 
 
 
 

 Oubliette says:

 June 10, 2016 at 2:48 pm
 

Sean, what a well-reasoned article. Thanks for writing this and sharing your experience.
I really appreciate the way you pointed out that the WTBTS wants people to doubt everything except what they say!
There is nothing wrong with doubts. Doubts are healthy. Ignoring them is dangerous. As has often been pointed out: if something is true, then questioning it will only lead to affirming its validity. The WT leaders don’t want their followers to question or have doubts because they know where that will lead.
My only comment is that you shouldn’t use Wikipedia as a source as it is not consistently reliable. Here are two better sources in reference to confirmation bias:
Psychology Today Magazine (online) – https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-choice/201504/what-is-confirmation-bias,
And a more comprehensive research paper:
 Confirmation Bias: A Ubiquitous Phenomenon in Many Guises by Raymond S. Nickerson –
http://landman-psychology.com/ConfirmationBias.pdf
Keep up the great work!
Oubliette
Reply
 
 

 Stephanie says:

 June 10, 2016 at 3:27 pm
 

So glad you are sharing your story, Sean!! Welcome to freedom– your voice deserves to be heard.
Reply
 
 

 I KNOW NOTHING says:

 June 10, 2016 at 4:18 pm
 

Thank you for this great article.Doubt is what I had struggled with all the years that I had been a JW and no amount of research or study of JW literature was able to erase my doubts,it only helped to reinforce them.Doubt is good.
Reply
 
 

 ruthlee says:

 June 10, 2016 at 4:36 pm
 

Like others I started the research path and not a jot of what I thought was true, was true. Then came the anger, then the disappointment and now the freedom to think as I please. I do not fear any of them now it is all smoke and mirrors,a fabricated sham. Such an elaborate façade while it lasted. As commented I find wtower stuff really hard to read or listen to as it gets on my nerves. I have no trouble reading the bible in fact that is the best thing that came out of this journey. I am still not going to this convention there is no point what can they teach that gives hope or purpose to my life. After 3 days of drivel how could I possibly go and tell my neighbours to collect their pandas and come in the bunker with me and all the other jdubs. Maybe to relieve the boredom in the bunker someone could bring a violin. Mind you no one would know how to play it but it would be an interesting curiosity. On another note , If jdubs were gathered in a bunker for sometime and they read the bible together they would find all the truth they needed without Brooklyn’s spin on things. mmmmm then we would hear a few teeth gnashing as the great discovery of delusion.cheers Ruthlee
Reply
 
 

 Quendi says:

 June 10, 2016 at 4:55 pm
 

Sean,
Many thanks for your piece. I hope it spurs thinking readers who are still active Witnesses to give it the serious consideration it is due. Those same readers should also be alert to the clever manipulation the Watchtower has employed over the decades to keep its followers in the fold. It is not just the threats of disfellowshipping and subsequent shunning that rein in many doubters, it is also the corrosive acid of whether any doubter is worthy of God’s love and guidance should he or she question Witness orthodoxy.
Many people embrace Watchtower theology because they sincerely love God and have come to believe that the Witness religion is really the way of pleasing Him. To doubt and then leave the organization might lead to spiritual suicide and the wrath of God lying everlastingly upon them. So they remain imprisoned, burdened by their doubts and the false hope that everything will work out for the best in the end. That was certainly my belief and why, when my first misgivings surfaced more than twenty years ago, I stayed. When I was eventually disfellowshipped, I spent five vain years seeking reinstatement before I finally worked up the courage to act on my convictions and end any and all efforts to return to the organization’s good graces.
For some people, the key to leaving is to acknowledge that love for God and love for the organization are not synonymous. Once a person gains that clear and distinct understanding, shackles will fall off, the prison gate will swing open, and the road to freedom can finally be trod.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 11, 2016 at 11:12 am
 

@Quendi, I feel like this describes my husband, and until very recently it described me as well. Part of the reason why we are distressed right now is exactly that.
He thinks that I have abandoned all belief in God and right and wrong. He thinks I will incur God’s everlasting disapproval.
I have been told for so long that the JWs were his only approved channel that I am not sure what to do next.
And as much as I appreciate this site, everyone is all over the place as far as what they chose to do when they left.
I do wish I knew where to look for more info about what else is out there.
Some will misunderstand and think that I have left one master and I don’t know how to be free, so I’m searching for another one.
I don’t want anyone to tell me what to do next. I do want to decide for myself, but after being a witness all my life, I don’t even know what my options are.
I’m not sure if I want a personal relationship with God, or to belong to some other organized religion.
I do still believe in the concept of right and wrong and truth and lies, but I am unsure about how to seek God’s approval and what and how much he expects of us in the way of good works.
I’m certain that I should do what I can to help my fellowman, and to be a good person, but beyond that I’m at a loss.
And, I know that it is a contradiction to everything I just said, but some days I do wonder if there’s a God.
The foundations of my faith have been so thoroughly shaken that I’m not sure of anything I was taught regarding the existence of a Creator and what he wants for us.
Reply
 

 Quendi says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:02 pm
 

@fallingangel75
You are not alone in your feelings of disorientation while you wrestle with your conscience, your faith and your sense of morality. Others have felt the same and I can say this was where I found myself when I made the decision to have nothing to do with the Watchtower again.
In my own case, I had to wrestle with feelings of low self-esteem and self-hatred. Since I am a gay man, the Watchtower had taught me that I was the scum of the earth and only completely purging my true nature would ever bring me God’s approval. I came to realize that was untrue and then I was able to finally move forward.
I still believe in God, and I still believe that some portions of what we call the Bible were inspired by Him. Once I had reached that point I began searching for a spiritual community where I could both contribute my gifts and abilities and be welcomed and loved for who I was. I am not saying that everyone should do as I did, but I have come to realize that being part of a community is an essential need I have. I have been fortunate to find one where I live in Denver, Colorado. That has enabled me to continue my “detoxification” program and I have grown and made progress in the healing I have needed.
In short, I would say that severing ties with the Watchtower is only a first step. I was a Witness for more than thirty years, so my detoxification has been a gradual process, not one that has happened quickly. Furthermore, it is an ongoing condition; and once I realized that I was able to let my healing take place at a healthy pace.
The road ahead will not be easy for either you or your husband, but should you choose to take it, I would say your choice is the wise one. You will find that there will be many people who will want to aid and assist you find the lives that will satisfy you. Redevelop your thinking abilities. Listen and learn, even when you hear things you don’t agree with because that is how you will grow in wisdom. Share your hopes and fears with others as you have in this forum and I think you will find that the rewards you will reap will far outweigh any blows you may suffer.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 3:50 am
 

Thanks, Quendi. Even though I am still in my 30s, I also count more than 30 years in because I was a very precocious child.
I have many clear memories of observations made and conclusions drawn that go back to when I was 3 or 4 years old.
I have even more strong impressions of things I understood and began to question counting forward from the age of 5.
Thirty years would be a lot of indoctrination if I was counting from age 15 or 20 or 30, but the impact on my psyche from that 30 year span comprising essentially my entire life is a whole other issue to deal with.
I like you. I really enjoy your comments. My heart goes out to you. As much as I was ever unhappy, I feel like it cannot compare to what you experienced as a gay man.
I often questioned the rules, but I never felt self-hatred as a result.
I felt stifled and unable to pursue goals. I also felt like I could not measure up to expectations, but I never felt like it was inherently wrong to be myself or to love who I wanted to love.
That’s a whole other set of issues.
I was always very confident in myself and my abilities. Thankfully, no self-esteem problems.l. The struggle I had was with humility and the roles that women are relegated to.
But that is off-topic.
It intrigues me that you still believe in God. Many people have abandoned belief in God over less.
I have a question: when you say that you belong to a ‘spiritual community’, is it actually a church with services and Bible study? Or is it a less formal group that does outreach programs, social work, charity, etc.?
I’ve never been to Denver, but it seems like a cool place. Me and my husband considered moving there at one point.
I appreciate your advice. Much of what you said is what I have always done, which is a large part of the reason I find myself here now.
I always participated in Interfaith discussions and charities. (Secretly. After I became an adult. Less once I got married.) But I have attended church services with co-workers. I have read recommended books and magazines and study publications from other faiths.
And I enjoyed it, and often felt encouraged and upbuilt. I did learn things.
I always believed it was ridiculous to ask people to accept and read our literature and to come to our meetings, but to flatly refuse theirs.
Of course I was alone in this. I never announced that I was doing it, and had concerns about the consequences if I was ever ‘caught’.
And I was never sure if Jehovah would hold it against me, but I was still willing to take my chances.
I have also always been sympathetic to people in the LGBT community. I have way more gay friends than any proper witness should.
I feel like that comment is like when people say they have a black friend, and you think: sure you do – have you ever been to their home?
Yes. I really do and I really have. On the super down low, of course, and not for stealth conversion.
Like to sleep over and watch a movie. More than once.
Never cracked a Bible, didn’t even bring one.
Gasp! Shame on me, right?
I feel like my thinking abilities are and always have been in tact, there was just so much information I didn’t have about things that the organization is doing wrong. Or the more objective history, not the one they teach us
I realize that I had always cherry-picked which beliefs I really held and would defend.
When questioned about certain doctrines, I would say, Jehovah’s Witnesses teach ‘x’, my personal belief however. …
But that is off-topic, also.
What has kept me in is mainly the fear of losing out on everlasting life in paradise, because I did earnestly believe that was a real thing.
And the fear of losing my friends and family through shunning, because that most definitely is a real thing.
Reply
 

 Quendi says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:54 am
 

@fallingangel75
Thanks for sharing some of your story. I appreciate the sentiments you have expressed and found none of them offensive or condescending. I have taken my time in replying to you because I wanted to read your answer more than once to make sure I grasped what you were saying. Also Sunday’s events in Orlando have been mind-shaking and heart-breaking and I wanted to take a little time to absorb their impact.
To answer your question about the community I joined, I will share a few details. After I made my decision to forever sever ties with the Watchtower, I took time off from religion, as it were, and gave myself a rest period. My belief in God was something I had long before I studied with Jehovah’s Witnesses and it survived my withdrawal from the cult. I had reinforced it with my own independent studies in religion, philosophy and science, so I didn’t need Watchtower literature or meetings to maintain my belief in God’s existence or his love for humanity.
A friend counseled me to look for gay Christians in the Denver area to associate with. This is where the Internet was a great help and I found a group that looked like it would be suitable. It was the Metropolitan Community Church of the Rockies located in Denver. At that time I lived in Longmont, some 40 miles away, but I thought it would be worth the drive to see what was going on there.
The first service I attended was in September 2011. I came dressed as if attending a Witness meeting and was stunned to see everyone else in casual attire. I wasn’t “love bombed” when I entered the church and quietly took a seat in the back row. That allowed me to watch and listen unobtrusively.
The service was utterly unlike anything I had ever experienced. There was lots of singing which involved the entire congregation. There was a choir of only seven or eight people, but they sang with real joy and gusto. The music was a blend of popular songs and traditional hymns.
It was the sermon, however, that riveted me–that and the behavior of the congregation. The message I heard that morning didn’t revolve around a “gay agenda.” Instead, I heard a simple but effective message of how God’s love was all embracing and that He had given us our nature, our character and our talent to use in service to one another and to enjoy life to the full. As I looked around the congregation and saw men and women sitting with their same-sex partners, I realized I had found something special. All the fear and hatred had been left outside the church doors and here was a place where people could express their love freely. There were straight couples in attendance that morning who had not only come themselves but brought their children as well. (The church’s motto is “We are gay and straight together.”) As I listened to the sermon, I began to quietly weep. For the first time in my life I had walked into a house of worship and did not feel shame for being a gay man. For the first time in my life I heard words from a minister that God loved me just as I was.
I attended services for six months and got to know different individuals there. Then I moved back to Birmingham, Alabama to care for my mother. I was gone for nine months before returning to Colorado in January 2013, this time to settle in Denver with the man who is now my partner. I resumed my association with MCCR and decided to join in October 2014.
Since joining, I have participated in different activities the church has. I was asked to be part of the choir. I do occasional public reading during a service. I support the outreach the church has in our community. We have a food bank that feeds hundreds of people. We support a shelter for homeless LGBT youth and we do other things that make me feel glad to be part of this community.
We have no requirements that people believe a rigid and unyielding set of doctrines. For example, on “Trinity Sunday”, the pastor said that he knew there were some among us who did not subscribe to the belief in the Trinity–I am certainly one such person–but that was okay because we were about sharing God’s love with everyone. There was another Sunday when the guest speaker was an atheist. His message to us was to build on our common humanity and thereby enrich the lives of our brothers and sisters. One of our members has a husband who is an atheist but regularly attends service with him because, as both of them have told me, they want their adoptive children to experience genuine love in a community that will accept their parents and themselves unconditionally.
I can’t imagine any Witness congregation coming anywhere close to expressing this kind of love and acceptance. This is not to say that MCCR doesn’t have problems or experience stress and discord. Every human community does. The difference here is that we try to work these things out in love and we allow our people to freely express themselves.
So this is where I find myself now. Our community is facing some serious problems, but we are determined to move forward as a family. When I contribute money, I know where it is going and how it is being spent. When I make the occasional suggestion, I am listened to respectfully even if my idea is not adopted or acted on. People tell me how glad they are to see me and how much they appreciate my contributions to our community’s life blood.
My partner is not a church-goer, but he is glad I have found a spiritual home. I am grateful for his support and being part of MCCR has reinforced my determination to never set foot in a Witness gathering again.
Quendi

 
 
 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 11, 2016 at 9:53 pm
 

FA75,
 As you start down your path of discovery, my recommendation: study everything. Have you read Ray Franz’s 2 books? They are a good place to start.

You will find a way that works for you.
WS
Reply
 

 Adrian says:

 June 12, 2016 at 3:50 am
 

@fallingangel
 Trying to find advice for someone in your position, who still has a partner who is in the organisation is tough.
 Firstly I’d say that when I left Jehovah’s Witnesses at 17, four years after being baptised at 13, I still believed in God and Jesus, and I held on to a faith that they knew I was doing no wrong to anyone. I had to accept that I wouldn’t know everything or have the answers to everything, but did I ever? When the going got tough on the doors, with someone who had questions that couldn’t be answered by Insight o.t. Scriptures or an elder, we generally would give up and decide the person we were talking to was not a sheep – so we never really had all the answers. So first of all you’ll need to accept that God, as you understand him actually loves you unconditionally.
 Years later I joined a Church of England (Episcopalian Church). I was by then an atheist, and I was surprised at how accepting they were of atheists and Catholics who went along but didn’t take part. Yes, really. If you do find another religious group, make sure that they show unconditional niceness. No genuine people will show unconditional love straight out, watch out for those sorts of groups. You don’t want to bounce out of the frying pan and into the fire.
 However, being as you are, still married to a believer, you will probably find that sort of step too much, so I’d advise you to search out some other form of communal activity – local knitting group, welding classes, exercise group, whatever. If they show politeness that should be good enough.

My big advice to people leaving, especially to younger people, is to be conservative when deciding what is good and is not good, and who your new associations are. The world is full of wonderful people, but there is also a mixed bag, and soem awful people out there too, so dip your toes in the water, and trust that in the fullness of time you’ll get a feel for who, in the long term is a genuine friend and who is not.
Good luck in your search.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 9:29 am
 

@ Adrian: Thanks. One thing I have realized by reading here and other ex-JW forums is this – I am not as isolated and sequestered as many have been.
I continue to say that I am very outgoing and friendly. People meet me one time and comment that I seem fun, cool, nice, kind, etc.
People comment that I must have many friends and that I must have been popular in high school, etc.
Not trying to pat myself on the back at all.
But I have never struggled with making friends or fitting in. (In the good way.)
I’m a natural leader and influencer, not a follower. (Except for being a JW, and always it has chapped and chafed.)
My struggle really has been with the JW pressure to NOT make friends outside the organization. That goes against my nature.
I really always did it anyway, but drew the line at going to holiday parties and birthdays and such. (Mostly.)
If I thought I could attend and not be found out, I totally did, but this was not often.
I always get invited, though.
I live in a part of the country where a lot of people go to church and are god-fearing, and even those who are not are still good people focused on taking care of their families.
I suppose I have been a social ‘double-lifer’ for the past 15 years.
And I am therefore not naive about people outside the organization.
I recognize that people are good and bad and you must pay attention to the cues they give about how they intend to treat you.
As they say, my mama didn’t raise no fool.
I can handle myself in the world. Both of my parents were very streetwise because they grew up poor in bad neighborhoods.
So even though I grew up sheltered in the suburbs, they always made sure to teach me to protect myself from people of an untrustworthy and predatory nature, and that such individuals are just as likely to be found inside the organization as out.
But not to fear everyone.
I appreciate them for that. I feel like I know how to make my way in the world better than most who were born into the organization.
I have an instant network of friends I can become a part of more fully than before, when I do find the courage to leave.
I’m not worried about that.
What hurts is that I cannot have both.
I must accept the severance of ties with all of my closest JW friends.
My close friends from my workplace and charities I’m involved in is what has shown me that JWs are not as superior as they claim.
I know so many good people doing good works who genuinely care about and care for others selflessly.
People who are making just as great an effort to apply bible principles in their lives and marriages as any of the Witnesses.
JWs do not have the corner on that market like they would have you believe!
So that is great advice about evaluating my new associates, but I have that part covered.
I already know a lot of good and trustworthy people.
Adrian: I can’t tell from context – are you still an atheist? Or were you an atheist at the time, but they won you over? Did you join the church while still an atheist?
It was unclear to me.
I’m not about to go join up anywhere anytime soon. When you break up with a boyfriend or girlfriend, the worst thing is to try to replace them immediately and on the rebound just to fill the void.
I feel that way about this. But I do feel like I must decide something about whether or not I truly believe in God and how or if I must worship him.
I don’t want to automatically default to atheism because the witnesses deceived and disappointed me, nor do I want to align myself with another group that is just as misled but more fun to be a part of.
So I’m not about to rush out and immerse myself in anything just because I’m lonely and I need to belong.
But thanks again for your advice and concern. I genuinely appreciate it. 🙂

 
 
 
 

 Andrew Haas says:

 June 12, 2016 at 9:36 pm
 

I think your right. At this stage you should not let others tell you what to do. God loves you and will wait for you as you embark on your journey of discovery. I can only tell you of my journey and if you find it helpful, then I’m glad. I left the JW’s 15 years ago. I felt a real tear but also a sense of freedom. Part of the process was reading Ray Franz’s two books. As soon as I discovered the Organisational lies and deception I became a avid reader of Christian theology. I discovered and started to believe many things that at one time I would have condemned. These new doctrines took a lot of soul searching and prayer, before I saw their place in Christian theology. To believe in the trinity, the immortality of the soul, the heavenly hope for all Christians was going against all my JW indoctrination but now I believe without doubt. Many would say that I am now indoctrined into another form of theological thinking. I know that what I believe and the path I have chosen is not for everyone, but that’s ok. I no longer look at people as “us and them”. To me, everyone is equally loved by God. If you want to find truth, you will find it but will take time as work through the process. The church I belong to is brilliant. It has a prison ministry, a bread ministry to the poor in our city. It supports overseas missionaries. Both women and men teach. I feel loved without conditions. These are people who really care about fellow church members and the wider community. I have never been happier. But that’s just me. Others have found a different path and that freedom to choose has to be supported. It’s a fundamental right !! Hope you find your path to peace.
Reply
 
 

 Jess says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:12 pm
 

Take a comparative religion class at your local community college. It will expose you to several different ideologies/belief systems from all over the world. I did and it was amazing!
Reply
 
 

 free@last says:

 June 15, 2016 at 11:35 am
 

Hi fallingangel75,
 I have been reading (sometimes stalking, lol) this site for a while now without replying but your comment made me want to reach out to you. Like you, when I left the JW org I was filled with doubt about where to go, what I believed, and how to move forward. Even when I found a church that I loved, I still had lingering doubts because so much of what I observed was so different from what I was taught. I finally learned that it is OK not to have the all the answers because no one does. So much about being a witness is this (false) sense of security that we have all the answers and everyone else is wrong. One day after questioning “Why am I having such a hard time with the way people at my church are worshiping God?” (They were worshipping in tongues, which as we both know, jw’s think is wrong) What is amazing is that God answered my prayer not by confirming that what I was seeing was either right or wrong, but by revealing that He cannot teach me anything if I think I already know the answers. So I just want you to know that is OK to have doubts, but have faith that you will find your way. Until then please know that this community is here for you and we understand.
 Here are a few scriptures that have always helped me, I hope they do the same for you.
 Matthew 7:7, 8 & Philippians 3: 12-14
 With Love
 
free@last
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Chantal says:

 June 10, 2016 at 4:57 pm
 

Very good and informative article, Sean. Thank you for sharing. When going in field service we were told to ask bible students to doubt their beliefs in their current faith. But, OH NOOO, never question the Almighty God, oh excuse me, the Watchtower
Reply
 
 

 Tara says:

 June 10, 2016 at 6:45 pm
 

‘Our’ convention is also this weekend…. did I go? Hahahahahahahahahahaha…no.
Reply
 
 

 Matias says:

 June 10, 2016 at 8:16 pm
 

Great article. Enjoyed it.
Reply
 
 

 Maria F. says:

 June 10, 2016 at 9:41 pm
 

very very good, keep up the great work, i really enjoy the articles,and just want to add that,this is our,my family and mine 5th,year out of the org..after more than 30 years,and no one wants to even think of going back…!!!
Reply
 
 

 Gaby says:

 June 11, 2016 at 5:23 am
 

Great article! When I spoke of doubts I had about the org. my family were like your not suppose to question Gods appointed men and reminded me of The Israelites and what happened to them for doubting Moses. Even my father who stop attending meetings for many years and celebrates birthdays , xmas ect.. told me this and told me how we are in the last days and this isnt the time for doubts! This made me realize how controling this cult is! Even those not currently attending meetings still have control of their thinking. Thanks for posting the handy dandy guide. Scary that once we believed this cult and still now trying to break away emotionally from it is not easy. How they had full control of our mind, behavior and thoughts is pretty scary to me. Since this regional convention my mom has become more zelous and has been too busy to see her grandkids. How they waiste their time and energy in this religion instead of what really matters. I feel so bad for my family and others that were close to me that are still in this religion. Wish i can help them.
Reply
 

 Former Italian Congregation Chicago says:

 June 11, 2016 at 10:49 pm
 

Me too. It’s sad. I make it a point not to have any contact with my mom. I let her know when I’m stoping her house to pick stuff up via text. My dad is not a JW so I have reason to stop at the house. The rest of my family are jdubs and they each need to be courageous to take the first step themselves; persuading and talking to them is useless.
Reply
 
 
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:18 am
 

Thanks for this article Sean!
 I appreciate that you mention being a good student has led to many leaving the Organization. That was my experience too.
 I think it’s disgusting that the literature portrays everyone who left as “weak” or “disloyal”.
They don’t want to address the questions the faders/disassociated/disfellowshipped ask. They just want them to shut up! And to top it off, they make it seem like the major reasons people leave are anxiety, hurt feelings, or guilt (see the Return To Jehovah tract).

My sense of justice is outraged.
Right now I’m waiting for Oubliette to hold his review session, because I think I finally understand the answer: It’s a cult!
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 11, 2016 at 9:14 am
 

@ telescopium, what I resent just as much is the implications that the majority leave to pursue immoral lives of debauchery. How many times have we heard that the major reason people leave is fornication, adultery, or drug and alcohol abuse?
All my life I’ve heard that people don’t like the restrictions that are there to protect them…. that lie alone has got me so angry now that I know differently.
And that people are too self-centered to go to meetings and field service.
So what if I am?
Yeah, now that I realize what a crock it is, I DO have better things to do with my time, even if it means that I want to lie in bed guilt-free on a Saturday or Sunday morning.
Reply
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 10:46 am
 

Fallingangel75,
 Totally agree with you. I guess they’ll never make it sound okay to leave, because everyone would rush for the doors!

Enjoy your guilt-free meeting nights!
 Enjoy your guilt-free weekends!
 Enjoy your guilt-free life!

Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 11, 2016 at 10:50 am
 

🙂
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Outandabout says:

 June 11, 2016 at 5:04 pm
 

No question, Telescopium, but they’re actually more than just a cult…..it’s a Death Cult! You have to be prepared to die for their beliefs. I believe the GB would love to get the blood monkey off their backs but they’ve come too far now to admit it was a mistake. They’re playing a double game by making it a matter of choice and so avoiding any legal comebacks, but at the same time they are forced to push the blood policy as gods word because to say anything different would be to admit they were wrong and risk having their arse’s sued off by irate families, not to mention a possible exodus on top of that.
 So to summarise: they are killing people to maintain their lies and are fully aware of it.
 Evil at it’s absolute worst!!
 This angle needs pushing hard.

Reply
 
 

 Former Italian Congregation Chicago says:

 June 11, 2016 at 10:44 pm
 

Good point. Instead of answering the doubts, which are most common to all witnesses, they just prompt the jdubs to avoid and shun. Their teachings, coming from god, should be solid in every respect and angle. Their cavalry of special pioneers, regular pioneers, and auxiliary pioneers should all be excited to jump into action and rebuddle every point and counterpoint we bring up. Instead they are instructed to avoid. If you are preaching 90-120 hours a month, aside from going to class/meetings a few times a week, your skills should be honed down; you should be drooling at the chance to take on someone who was once a jdub. I mean the preparation in studying the watchtower, reading the bible, going to the meetings and preaching should make anyone of these witnesses want to take on a debate. But no they tell you to avoid and not to engage in conversation. We just have questions! I have a BA in business and I’m confident in any situation where people ask me questions, they should too.
Reply
 
 
 

 Vidiot says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:49 am
 

“…There eventually came a tipping point, and I decided to rely on on the evidence…”
Hoo boy, that takes me back.
Reply
 
 

 MamaJane says:

 June 11, 2016 at 8:17 am
 

I was around for the 1974 – 2006 district conventions. Back in the 70’s I was a kid. I remember being frightened to death at some of the talks. Especially the ones just before the doomed date of 1975. Around 2000, I just became numb to the monotone voices at at the meetings and assemblies. I left for good about 5 years ago. I couldn’t take it anymore. I had doubts and I was labeled apostate because (they) couldn’t answer my questions. Nice, huh? So, I did the unthinkable…. I researched and read a real Bible!!! Got my answers! I knew then, in my heart, it was a cult. I pray that my mate and family wakes up to the madness.
Reply
 
 

 Twmack says:

 June 11, 2016 at 9:40 am
 

The sign, (Now removed) from the NY HQ building,
 inviting everyone to “Read Gods Word Daily” was
 mis-leading, even deceitful, it’s not what they want
 you to do.

What should have been displayed there on that building,
 is this statement from a 2011 KM.—

Does ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ [Watchtower organization] endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?—Matt. 24:45, 47. No, it does not. K,M, Sept, 2011 p
Independent Bible study quickly exposes them, and their wrong
 understanding and application of scriptures. It’s what led to several
 at bethel HQ being disfellowshipped in the 70s , including
 former Gov,Body member, Ray Franz.

One of the things that these ones exposed, was the fallacy that
 there are two classes of Christians, they realised that,
“ALL who are led by Gods spirit are the children of God” Ro,8/14

What also became plain to them was that, “Christians are saved
 by Grace not by Works” . Eph 2: 8-9, this is one thing they do not
 want you to meditate upon. They want you to go on filling in those
 FS Reports and keep doing more and more. And never doubt them.

Reply
 
 

 Kat says:

 June 11, 2016 at 12:11 pm
 

If one has doubts research it is either founded or not.
Isn’t this what JW expect from those they preach to going around planting doubts into peoples minds about their own beliefs, they expect them to research.
I think many JW have doubts and for many they don’t care about it, others do and follow up on those doubts by research. Are not the GB telling JW to be like the Boreans, and to make sure of all things.
This religion is BS.
Reply
 
 

 Gary says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:20 pm
 

Love this website.
Well as an old witness take this for a young mind.https://youtu.be/XUW-QkHBr8g
Reply
 
 

 Joseph Rizoli says:

 June 12, 2016 at 11:50 am
 

People need to realize that IF you are a JW or any member of a controlling religious group, that you as a member HAVE to accept the policies they merit out to people in the group they consider apostate or not worthy of the group any more. This poses a serious problem for those who are honest and truthful because those members they expel or not found worthy could have been real Godly honest people. If you take persons like former Gov board member Ray Franz or others like him who have been booted out of the group then you as a JW take corporate responsibility to the actions of the JW hierarchy and YOU as a member have to answer to the Biblical command to NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS. If the group expels someone on FALSE silly charges then YOU share the guilt and as Jesus said, If the blind lead the blind then BOTH fall into the pit. This should not be taken lightly people. This has happened I am sure to many in the JW’s. Certain Elders may have a bone to pick against someone and manipulate things to where that person is put on trial and disfellowship that person when in reality that person has done nothing major as a sin. Corruption follows every group. But the bigger issue is whether you as a child of God want to follow SCRIPTURE or be led by the nose to accept an unrighteous act that goes against the written word of God…
Reply
 
 

 Jerry says:

 June 13, 2016 at 8:16 am
 

I leave alldoubts behind when I think of theTrinity. I was about 12 y.o. when it dawned on me that with Jesus praying to God. God was higher than Jesus. You don’t pray to some one your equal. I never had to consuider the Trinity again.
 I read in the paper about a man having trouble with his 16 y.o. girl. So he took her forearm and held it over a hidh heat gas stove to show her what it would be like forever if she doesn’t change her ways. She wound up in the hospital and he in jail. How could anyone think of God burning people forever?
 Only Jehovah’s Witnesses have the truth on these matters. What a blessing and freedom this gives us!

Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 16, 2016 at 11:02 am
 

@Jerry
 You are using an incredibly inaccurate definition of the Trinity in your reasoning. It is the same definition watchtower uses. But they have an ulterior motive: “A “straw man” argument defines a person’s point of view inaccurately, and then attacks the misrepresentation. The Watchtower does this by defining the Trinity inaccurately and inadequately. When presenting the Trinity doctrine, the Watchtower melds Trinitarian and Modal concepts, creating an inconsistent and confusing teaching that does not define any formal position.” See more detail at:
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/trinity.php
WS
Reply
 
 
 

 James Broughton says:

 June 13, 2016 at 8:57 am
 

My Anglican bishop once told me that the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty. Wise words which have helped me in my ministry.
Reply
 
 

 Free Thinker says:

 June 15, 2016 at 8:19 am
 

Hi guys,
at this week’s mid-week meeting they present this comic-strip-like video animation clip about how to imagine life in the JW.Org-promised “New System”. (The sound track is horrible.) During the subsequent audience commenting session (“What are YOU looking forward to in the NS?”), I really believed I was in Kindergarten or in pre-K: Lion-, tiger- and pandabear-petting – eternally beautiful weather – the best food & drink – swimming & diving in the ocean without any danger of sharks or shellyfish, … – mountain hiking without danger of rockfall… Nothing, not a word about God, Jesus Christ, spiritual things; it is only “ME ME ME, MY pleasure, MY belly, MY hobbies, MY interests…” – there is abolutely no truly grand vision, no true spirituality, no perception of man’s divine affiliation (“Gotteskindschaft” in German). Everything is infantile, shallow, hollow, me-focused on an appalling low level. All these people want to do is living in an eternal Disney Land, an everlasting theme park. Lock them up in a zoo for good – that’s all they need. Panis et circenses.
It appears to me that this thing with highly emotionally charged video clips, like this tear-inducing one about the resurrection (dead sister coming back to life), is becoming a standard in JW.Org-“teaching”, in order to compensate for the hotly longed for but never-arriving “Waiting-for Godot-New World”. Looking at what their “teaching” (spiritual JUNK-food) consists of for the last decade, it is becoming obvious that the JW.Org-CEOs are ever faster running out of “spiritual ammunition”, of “meaty instruction”, in particular since the ominous announcement regarding “simplified teaching” at the occasion of the release of the new NWT in Oct. 2013 (they won’t teach about “prophetic parallels” any longer, but only about “practical lessons based on Bible characters”). All that is done by now – besides blunt cold calling & sales technique training – is an eternally stretched out “My Book with Bible Stories”, with recurring and utterly weird “lessons” to be learned from Abraham, Ruth, Esther, …, based on highly speculative reasonings about “Imagine what Noah/Abraham/Moses/Ruth/Esther/Mary/… MUST HAVE (!) felt …” (“no doubt” – “doubtless” – “surely” – …, all meaning “WE DON’T KNOW”). The “spiritual food” consists of: Cardboard, styrofoam flakes, air-bubble-wrapping foil, sawdust, or outright crank & garbage.
Hence, it appears to me that – in order to come to grips with, and brake this dullness, this utter lack of “meaningful guidance” and “solid instruction”, coupled with the consistent failure of their “The end is coming SOOOOOOOON”-prophecies – they are trying something new, which is those emotionally highly-charged,heart-warming and touching, yet excruciatingly infantile video clips that are obviously supposed to rekindle the faded hopes and yearning of the disillusioned “publisher”-flock. This is a prove of the sheer desperation of JW.Org’s CEOs who don’t know anymore what else to do to keep things going and holding their flocks together. Their lies and erros are now “becoming flesh” and start to raise their ugly heads out of the mud in which the JW.Org could hide them for so long, staring the JW squarely in the face and revealing themselves for what they truly are: Empty, shallow wishful conjecture, childish dreams, invented theories and hypothesises without substance, in essence a bunch of hogwash and deception.
That’s my current stance on that.
Reply
 
 

 Minion says:

 June 18, 2016 at 3:49 pm
 

Greetings to all:
@ C, great article about doubt, what if – this or that.
You know, one does not need to go to far to research to find out if this is the true religion or the truth, or its not.
The Watchtower Corporation, using the outlet known as Jehovah’s Witnesses – religion for non-profit status solely for not to pay taxes in all their business ventures – is one big key component.
Active JWs and Bible studies need to ask, if Isaiah 43:10 written 1,500 years before Jesus was on earth. Then why did he not make mention of this scripture and support Jehovah’s expression. If this scripture has any validation and merit – Jesus would have made reference as he did in other occasions. He did not, and this proves the religion known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses is not the true religion, or the channel Jehovah is using.
The man Jesus was known to teach his followers and never did he mention ‘you are Jehovah’s Witnesses based on Isaiah 43:10’.
Jesus disciples did the same, never recognize Isaiah 43:10, never used gods name.
Perhaps, this validates G.Jackson explanation at his testimony in court in Australia. When he explained (the governing body) we are not the sole channel of God, this would be presumptions.
G.Jackson is telling the truth, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not the true religion, or supported by Isaiah 43:10.
Active JWs and Bible studies, we are not making this stuff up. It’s real and true.
1.) You have no support or backing from Jesus, he never supported Isaiah 43:10, why? Because it does not exist.
2.) You have no support from G.Jackson, the GB is not the sole channel god is using.
3.) You have no support from other GB members, who chose not to go to court and defend their stands, on why they do what they do. Right or wrong. They prefer to use Your donations and children’s ice cream money and pay millions of dollars of fines instead.
One thing is real and true, we at JWsurvey, we are trying to help you see the big picture of what is Not real and Not true inside The Watchtower Corporation.
Please research on your own, and find where Jesus ever supported Isaiah 43:10.
Peace out,
Reply
 
 

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NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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Posted on June 11, 2016

resign-jw3
JW.ORG Portrays a Resigning Witness – A man now wearing street clothes

The FAQ section on JW.org has added a new featured post: “Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?” In this NEW article dated June 9th 2016, the Watchtower gives their official explanation of how to handle matters when a person no longer wants to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

It is, in my opinion, one of the most calculated, misleading and dishonest articles recently released on their website. The level of deliberate deceit on display is both appalling and astonishing.
Follow along with me as I examine this FAQ article section-by-section, explaining in detail how it is both deceptive and misleading!
Lies of Omission
resign-jw1
JW.ORG Asks: Can you Resign?

The FAQ presents itself as answering two questions. The first is:


Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
It clearly targets members of both the public and the media, not rank-and-file Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW’s), and describes what happens when members leave the religion. The actual members of the organization already know what happens when they resign from the faith. For instance, this summer, JW’s are subjected to an extended campaign of shunning training and loyalty indoctrination.
It is vital to keep the following fact in mind. This FAQ is intended for someone who does not know the details about Watchtower’s policies. Therefore, the printed words are just as important as the words omitted or danced around.
The FAQ responds to the question as follows. The first part says:

Yes. A person can resign from our organization in two ways:
By formal request. Either orally or in writing, a person can state his decision that he no longer wants to be known as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
 By action. A person can take an action that places him outside our worldwide brotherhood. (1 Peter 5:9) For example, he might join another religion and make known his intention to remain part of it.—1 John 2:19.

And…what happens next?
What happens when someone does this?
Hello?
FAQ?
What happens?
Silence.
This part of the FAQ says nothing whatsoever about the implications for a person undertaking the above steps. It makes no mention at all of what the penalty would be.
Why is that important?
It’s a deliberate lie of omission.
Wikipedia defines a lie of omission as:

Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions.
What important fact has been left out? What misconception might this article deliberately be hoping to instill in a reader?
Well, if you were reading this FAQ with no deeper knowledge of Jehovah’s Witnesses (which is the prime and deliberate audience for a write-up such as this) you might well walk away with the impression that such a person can carry on their life without any real interruption.
You would have no idea that the Witness family and friends of this person were now required to completely shun such an individual. Watchtower even recently went so far as to instruct parents to throw mature children out of the family home should one become disfellowshipped, and to not even answer the phone when they call. Disfellowshipping is an involuntary removal due to perceived “sin”, but Watchtower commands Witnesses to treat disassociated, or resigned ones, ones in an identical manner to disfellowshipped ones. See Watchtower Study edition Feb 2011 article Do You Hate Lawlessness. Below are two relevant paragraphs:

15 Do we share Jesus’ view of those who have become set in their lawless course? We need to give thought to these questions: ‘Would I choose to associate regularly with someone who has been disfellowshipped or who has disassociated himself from the Christian congregation? What if that one is a close relative who no longer lives at home?’ Such a situation can be a real test of our love of righteousness and of our loyalty to God.
18 If you face a similar situation, please remember that Jehovah sympathizes with you. By cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome. However, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her. Your loyalty to Jehovah may increase the likelihood that the disciplined one will repent and return to Jehovah.
Clearly, there is a lie of omission, designed to craft a misleading impression in the minds of the general public, as well as any interested media organizations.
But it gets worse!
The next part of the FAQ contains, not only an attempt to casually hide an embarrassing truth with sleight of hand, but an outright lie.
Misleading or Dissembling Lies
Wikipedia defines a misleading or dissembling lie as:

A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but still retains the purpose of getting someone to believe in an untruth.
The next question in the FAQ is:

What if a person no longer preaches or attends your meetings? Do you view that person as having resigned?
Now, in last years Australian Royal Commission hearings, where the Child Abuse policies of Jehovah’s Witnesses came under devastating scrutiny, this issue arose during the questioning of Governing Body Member Geoffrey Jackson by Senior Council for the Commission Angus Stewart.
It was put to Jackson that if a survivor of child abuse felt so let down by the Organization’s discredited policies (see the full damning report here) that they wished to leave the religion, they had no way of doing so without being shunned by their family. Remember, the two official options for leaving discussed in the FAQ both result in shunning.
What followed was a painful display of Jackson blatantly trying to misdirect the Royal Commission. He implied that someone who wanted to leave could simply stop attending meetings and it would be fine. He gave the impression that they would be viewed as having left or faded, and there would be no shunning.
Angus Stewart, who had clearly done his research into Watchtower’s policies, stood his ground on this point, and using various scenarios he demonstrated that Watchtower viewed a person who simply stopped attending meetings, but did not “disassociate” using the two above methods, as still a Witness, and thus subject to Watchtower’s rules and discipline. If such a person was caught violating any of their vast and controlling web of laws, they would be disfellowshipped or considered disassociated, and then shunned.
Watch the full video footage below and decide for yourself the impression that Jackson is trying to give on this issue prior to being cross-examined by Stewart.


Now, does the FAQ back up what Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson initially claimed under oath, before he started wriggling under cross-examination? Or does it back up Senior Council for the Royal Commission Angus Stewart?

What if a person no longer preaches or attends your meetings? Do you view that person as having resigned?
In answer to this, this FAQ states (bold is mine)

No, we do not. Resigning, or disassociating oneself, is different from becoming weak in faith.
This FAQ backs Stewart, not the Governing Body member who was giving testimony under oath. Was Jackson mistaken, misdirecting, incompetent or lying?
I will leave that to you.
The FAQ answer continues:

Often, those who for a time slow down or stop in their worship have not abandoned their faith but are suffering from discouragement. Rather than shunning such ones, we try to give them consolation and support. (1 Thessalonians 5:14; Jude 22) If the person wants help, congregation elders take the lead in providing spiritual assistance.—Galatians 6:1; 1 Peter 5:1-3.
Hmm.
Did you spot it?
Reading through quickly, you might have missed it. (bold is mine)

Often, those who for a time slow down or stop in their worship have not abandoned their faith but are suffering from discouragement. Rather than shunning such ones, we try to give them consolation and support. (1 Thessalonians 5:14; Jude 22) If the person wants help, congregation elders take the lead in providing spiritual assistance.—Galatians 6:1; 1 Peter 5:1-3.
See how carefully they slipped that in? You might have missed it if you were just scanning through. Additionally, the context is unclear about how shunning is to be interpreted in this text. If someone told me that Witnesses shun members that leave their faith, and then I came to this FAQ, I could easily interpret that sentence as meaning “we don’t shun such ones.”
Remember, there is no mention in the first part of the FAQ that disassociation involves shunning. A person without any knowledge of Witness doctrine, could come away thinking that there was no shunning for the disassociated ones, and possibly no shunning at all.
Now, there IS a hypertext link on the word “shunning.” This takes you to another FAQ here.
More Lies of Omission and Misdirection
Screenshot 2016-06-11 18.07.58
JW.ORG Addresses Shunning – or do they?

You have to notice the hyperlink and click on it to get this extra detail; the reader has to take additional time and effort to get this information. Even a quick scan of the article may not reveal it. But let’s click on it and examine the second FAQ on shunning.

I am going to reproduce the entire second FAQ on shunning below:

Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.
We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”—1 Corinthians 5:13.
What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.
Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again.
However, the elders are not authorized to coerce or pressure someone to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each person makes his own choice regarding religion. (Joshua 24:15) We believe that those who worship God must do so willingly, from the heart.—Psalm 110:3; Matthew 22:37.
What’s the first thing you notice? The article on shunning admits that it happens, but only in the context of disfellowshipping.  There is no mention that a disassociated one will be shunned.
Thus, a person, with no prior knowledge of the Witnesses that reads the first FAQ, and follows the reference to the second, will still have no information telling them that a disassociated one will be shunned.
Again, this is a deliberate lie of omission. Watchtower is trying to craft the impression that people are free to leave the religion of their own accord, with no penalty when the exact opposite is true.
What else do you notice? A person reading this will be thinking, “What if a family member is disfellowshipped?”
What scenario does the FAQ present?

What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.
Again, this is a lie of omission, and of misdirection. This scenario only holds true if the father is living at home with his wife or children. If the children grow and leave the family home, or the wife separates from her husband and takes her children with her they are then indeed required to shun him as if he was dead. If children are living outside the home and are disfellowshipped, siblings and parents are required to shun them as if they were dead. And what holds for the disfellowshipped holds for disassociated. By cherry-picking its scenario, and limiting disclosure of information, Watchtower has carefully presented a sanitized version of its shunning policy that simply is not true.
But worst of all is the way that both the first and second FAQ ends; we run crunching into what is nothing less than a barefaced lie.
Barefaced Lies
Wikipedia defines a barefaced lie as

A barefaced (or bald-faced) lie is one that is obviously a lie to those hearing it.
Both FAQ’s end with the following paragraph.

However, the elders are not authorized to coerce or pressure someone to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each person makes his own choice regarding religion. (Joshua 24:15) We believe that those who worship God must do so willingly, from the heart.—Psalm 110:3; Matthew 22:37.
There is no pressure.
Yes, if the person no longer wishes to remain one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they will never see their friends or family again.
But there is no pressure, you see.
The elders sit there pointing full loaded shun-guns at the individual, ready to fire if they decide to leave.
But there is no coercion. No pressure. We believe you must serve God willingly. It’s just that if you don’t choose to stay, your family and friends will never be allowed to see you again.
Dear JW.org: I think you need to look up the definition of the words pressure and coercion. I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.

pressure |ˈprɛʃə| noun [ mass noun ] 2 the use of persuasion or intimidation to make someone do something:backbenchers put pressure on the government to provide safeguards | [ count noun ] :  the many pressures on girls to worry about their looks.
coercion |kəʊˈəːʃ(ə)n| noun [ mass noun ] the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats: it wasn’t slavery because no coercion was used.
Even Watchtower’s own literature and videos state that a big part of the reason for shunning is to cause such deep emotional trauma to the person who left that they feel obligated to return to the organization.
See, for example, the video (below) that will be played to all of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide this year. What how the shunned person admits that the emotional pressure from being cut off from her family was part of what brought her back.


Also, notice this paragraph from the June 2013 Study Edition of the Watchtower which explicitly acknowledges that emotional blackmail is a key part of the shunning process.

17 Disfellowshipping is another type of discipline from Jehovah. It protects the congregation from a bad influence and can play a role in the sinner’s recovery. (1 Cor. 5:6, 7, 11) Robert was disfellowshipped for nearly 16 years, during which time his parents and siblings firmly and loyally applied the direction in God’s Word to quit mixing in company with wrongdoers, not even greeting such ones. Robert has been reinstated for some years now and is progressing well spiritually. When asked what moved him to return to Jehovah and His people after such a long time, he replied that the stand that his family took affected him. “Had my family associated with me even a little, say to check up on me, that small dose of association would have satisfied me and likely not allowed my desire for association to be a motivating factor to return to God.”
Or this paragraph from the Feb 2016 Study Edition of the Watchtower magazine, which not only proudly presents such emotional blackmail as a positive thing, but even blames the shunning victim for it.

A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5:11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,” Anne wrote.—Jas. 4:8.
So, for Watchtower to blatantly instruct its followers to engage in traumatizing emotional blackmail of those who leave, whilst simultaneously having the gall to state in its FAQ… (bold is mine)

However, the elders are not authorized to coerce or pressure someone to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each person makes his own choice regarding religion. (Joshua 24:15) We believe that those who worship God must do so willingly, from the heart.—Psalm 110:3; Matthew 22:37.
…is nothing less than a bare-faced lie.
A direct, blatant, calculated lie, and one that anyone with any knowledge of its doctrines and teachings can easily spot it as such.
I cannot recall the last time I saw posted on their website such a blatant, disgusting and calculated attempt to mislead the general public and the media as to its practice of disassociation, and its use of shunning to place coercion upon those who leave.
The Governing Body should be ashamed.
I call upon Watchtower to either amend the FAQ to reflect the reality of their polices, or to remove the FAQ altogether.
One last point: If shunning is Scriptural and the Governing Body is so proud to carry out God’s perceived command, why are they so desperate to lie about it and hide it from the public?
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← The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Doubts
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175 Responses to NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Newer Comments →
 

 Imgonaburn says:

 June 11, 2016 at 2:10 pm
 

After not attending meetings for over a year I went to pick up my husband when he got off the cong coach after attending convention. About 30 bros and sis got off the coach and only one of them said hello to me!! Another occasion my husband and I were invited to the evening celebration of a jw wedding. The groom was employed by my husband. I sat alone all night. Only 2 people sat and chatted to me the rest avoided eye contact and some even ignored me when I tried to make conversation with them. Says it all really…
Reply
 

 Imgonaburn says:

 June 11, 2016 at 4:28 pm
 

Btw…I’m not disfellowshipped. I haven’t had a judicial or been in trouble particularly. I just stopped going to meetings.
Reply
 

 Will says:

 June 11, 2016 at 5:54 pm
 

I’m not disfellowshipped or disassociated, but I stopped attended meetings about 2 years ago. Anyway, my wife was invited to a witness wedding and I wasn’t. Because we are married and the bride knows me well, I feel I should have been invited. My wife made a lame excuse saying that she probably felt I would have said no. I told my wife that I should make that decision and not her. Also, my wife should have approached the bride and asked if I could come. My wife, I feel, should have asked me how it would make me feel going to a wedding without her husband. I didn’t say anything about that, but she should either have asked me or not gone. Also, I’ve been wearing a beard for a while now, so maybe the bride didn’t want me there because of it, in addition to not attending meetings. FYI— my wife has been invited to all my “worldly” coworkers’ weddings, even the lesbian wedding. “Worldly” people have more sense.
Reply
 

 Dwc says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:35 pm
 

There is new direction on beards in the sept watchtower: article entitled “does your style of dress glorify Jehovah”
Paragraph 17. It seems I cannot copy the paragraph but it says that if it is culturally acceptable as long as it is clean and well kept it would not be an issue.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:09 am
 

Regarding beards: is anyone else especially annoyed by the fact that beards were viewed as a sign someone was weak or rebellious for so long?
And now they’re just like: yeah. No biggie.*
You could certainly wear one, but don’t expect to have ANY privileges or advance.
I was always told that refusal to shave, when everyone else did, was evidence of having the wrong attitude – an unnecessarily haughty and independent spirit.
This always seemed like it was going far beyond the scope and spirit and intent of the scriptures.
And it really just boiled down to more man made rules.
I’m a woman. I don’t have to shave, but this always stuck in my craw. From early childhood.
Because as a child, I paid lots of attention to the pictures – many of which showed Jesus with a beard.
Obvious question: why are Jesus and his apostles frequently depicted with full beards, but when a brother wants to grow one, it’s not ok?
Yes, dress and grooming was different, but not the biology that makes you grow hair!
Daily.
And it was the same,’you can, but you shouldn’t’ nonsense/bs.
All still without a good reason why or why not.
Even as a child I knew that THEY knew the rule was completely unsupported by the scriptures.
Even in principle to say that beards are always associated with undesirables.
Who? Who thinks that?
It would stumble people in our ministry.
Really? More than knocking on their door too early in the morning on the one day they get to sleep in?
Yes. It would be the beard they would focus on.
Beards ARE sometimes unkempt, and sometimes outrageous to the point they are distracting.
So are hairstyles and clothes. Stop wearing those as well?
The logic behind the blanket ban was always so faulty.
Yet another one of those questions no one could ever give me a satisfying answer to.
I never believed Jehovah was against beards. And I never understood why more people didn’t question it.
*Don’t get me wrong. I think they should have made the correction/adjustment. The part that annoys me is that they were stuck on it for so long when it should never have been an issue in the first place.
So typical.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 12, 2016 at 6:11 am
 

There was actually a similar article that said something to that extent about beards some 10 or so years ago (I’ll have to go back and find the reference). It did little to change the attitude toward them in the local congregations in my area (United States). We will have to see if this one makes any difference.
WS

 
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 11:04 am
 

Yes, WS, the prejudice against them seems firmly entrenched. Times when we have gone for long stretches without meeting attendance and field service my husband always starts growing a beard, and I love it!
I’m always disappointed when he goes back to shaving.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 alanv says:

 June 11, 2016 at 2:27 pm
 

Obviously as ex JWs we know only too well how the org treats anyone who has left the org and dares to tell others why they left. So now we need to double our efforts and let people know the true situation. Share on forums and tell those we meet, family and friends, even local papers. We need to speak out about it because as has been said the public or media often do not know how things really work in the org.
Reply
 

 Anonymous says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:34 am
 

@alanv – the official policy versus the practice is sometimes not as “ideal” as Watchtower would like it to be. Families that are strong will observe shunning spiritually–maybe not exchanging comments on religion or differences of religious views–but not socially. Blood will always be blood, but dogma changes.
In fact, some would say the angst some feel over shunning was not their experience–perhaps a mild form of shunning as noted, but generally the same respect and tact given to any stranger on the street.
Plus, as someone noted the stupidity on beard policies, it also seemed stupid that some sheep, or goat, who was “weak” and stumbling was pushed out of the herd, left for the wolves to devour. Even animals will shelter the weak and young of the herd from predators.
And, I keep hearing JW’s excuses, well they only expel persons who refused help or weren’t applying “counsel given” [no professional therapy for a domestic abuser, alcoholic, substance addict, or philanderer?] which is same stale verses and literature quotes yet not solid guidance on assistance overcoming addictions or treatment/diagnoses for mental health issues.
And, adding to stupidity is no avenue for “a dialogue” of questions. Ask a doctrinal question of a local elder and you get quoted literature that you’ve already read, and as the GB and HQ reveals how it reaches doctrinal conclusions, there really isn’t a broad discussion of counterpoints to a final adoption of a doctrine, or in JW parlance “viewpoint”. More than likely it’s because individuals writing the literature, nor those using and distributing the literature, don’t know how to think through and address scriptural challenges and contradictions to an adopted viewpoint.
And, with the increasing adoption of video lectures and presentations with no feedback loop or outlet for asking probing questions, even challenger questions, the group presents itself with a “take it, or leave it” scenario–even if you are raised in it.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 11:33 am
 

@ anonymous, I agree. Part of what finally pushed me out was this approach to reasonable questions.
I’ve asked all manner of questions that were in ‘the Bible doesn’t say’ territory my entire life. And I have always gotten that response.
Read appropriate articles. Pray. Trust in Jehovah and wait on him. And does it affect your ability to serve him faithfully and keep his commands now? No, then ignore it and increase your kingdom service, focus on helping others, not yourself.
But I was fed up for good when no one could give me satisfying answers regarding my husband’s change in hope and my feelings on the matter.
It was exactly as you said, I was repeatedly directed to read the same stale articles I had already researched myself and found no comfort or logic.
How about that?
Even if any of it made sense or rang true and seemed plausible and well-reasoned and practical, I might have tried harder to accept it even if I didn’t like it on a personal level.
But I was instructed to read articles and watch videos and pray. And if I didn’t feel better, I was instructed to keep doing so until I did feel better.
Who remembers the definition of insanity?
Don’t everyone raise your hands all at once!
I really hate the direction the organization is headed, but I still love the people I have always loved.
That part is so hard for me.
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Jerry LaPier says:

 June 11, 2016 at 2:31 pm
 

Dissection of video and shunning to the core..Wow, did you hit everything ( I am going through ) in such detail it removes the pompous cloak of superiority through nobility that WT drapes like a shield of armor over them… sickening really.
 Covert, you are such an asset to the writing department! I hope you are successful in your personal ventures as well.

My Best,
Reply
 
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 2:31 pm
 

It’s amazing what the Organization will do to try and save face. Lies, manipulation, coercion…
Didn’t they talk about this in the Revelation book?
Reply
 
 

 Jessica B says:

 June 11, 2016 at 2:49 pm
 

I cannot tell you how much I enjoy these articles. The points are all so well thought out and the perspectives given are spot on. Those along with such clearly exposed tactics have all been major tools to help me truly see what I came from and how it has affected me. I am so grateful to have places like this to remind me of how grateful I am to be free of it and to now have control over my life, my mind, and my heart. It is a gift I am determined not to squander. Keep up the great work.
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 Cartan says:

 June 11, 2016 at 2:54 pm
 

I would consider this attempt to “explain itself” and make amends with the common public as a small illustration of what web activism and spread of “members only material” (such as the excelent videos and articles with the title “worst convention ever”) can do to this religion. Congratulations to you guys, and see this as a good sign that the GB is becoming afraid!
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 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:10 pm
 

Excellent analysis CF. I love the point “By cherry-picking its scenario, and limiting disclosure of information, Watchtower has carefully presented a sanitized version of its shunning policy that simply is not true.”
Actually Watchtower presents a santized version of itself in everything they do – especially their history – much like the Ingsoc government from 1984. So much for the candour of the bible writers!
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 Dwc says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:38 pm
 

I’m sorry ingsoc government? I’m unfamiliar with that.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:21 am
 

@Dwc. Ingsoc from George Orwell’s novel ‘1984’. The English Socialist party. Recommended reading, imo. At the very least an abbreviated summary or Wikipedia reference.
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 Felipe Morales says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:12 pm
 

Great article! But it could be even greater on the eyes of a pedant. You need to do some editing. Have someone else read it and discover the minor errors.
Reply
 

 Jeffreycanning says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:32 pm
 

You are right, mistakes stand out to me but I am also guilty of making them. Other day I put on Facebook the word GROWM. As in a growm man… Sent it off without proof reading it. Now my friends probably think I’m a dill. So we need to cut some slack here…
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 Felipe Morales says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:55 pm
 

I rather send a private message pointing out the minor errors, but I don’t have that luxury. And no, I don’t cut any slack regarding great articles. they have to be great in content and form. Undermining the Watchtower is too important!
 By the way, the editors of the Watchtower are good at lying, deceiving and manipulating, but don’t allow errors in form to get through. We have to be at least as good as they are.

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 Covert Fade says:

 June 11, 2016 at 4:51 pm
 

Yep, those mistakes are mine. Will correct in the morning. 🙂
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 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 5:56 pm
 

All you guys and your crazy editing skills… Now I’m nervous about commenting!
At least Covert’s article didn’t contain any lies, coverups, or half-truths. Doesn’t that alone make his message superior?
Reply
 

 Fritz says:

 June 12, 2016 at 3:50 am
 

I agree with the post. It is not an attack on an excellently-written article. The fewer the typos, the better. (Online comments are given great license – professional articles are generally not accorded that license.)

 
 

 Adrian says:

 June 12, 2016 at 11:27 am
 

Did you miss Covert’s cover up?
 Isn’t the omission of his real name a cover up as well? How is it possible to take someone seriously when they don’t practice what they preach?


 
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 13, 2016 at 4:04 pm
 

Adrian,
 Perhaps revealing his real name would result in harm to his family relationships or reputation… In that case you can understand why he (and every masked superhero) would be loath to reveal his true identity.

Also, I’m not sure that this is a cover-up type scenario.

 
 
 

 Tara says:

 June 11, 2016 at 6:15 pm
 

Er you might want to check this out Felipe…
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/error-found-in-new-silver-sword-revised-new-world-translation
Former Witnesses have found an error in the new Bible, ironically in the book of Numbers. The header to page 267 shows the page numbers going down from Numbers chapter 35 to Numbers chapter 33. The header should instead read “Numbers 32:37-33:22.” At the time of writing, this typo is also in the PDF version.
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 Janis says:

 June 11, 2016 at 9:00 pm
 

Felipe…. I can’t believe you didn’t start your sentence with a capital T. It should be: They have to be great.. Also would it not be more correct to say ” I would rather “
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 Holy Connoli says:

 June 12, 2016 at 4:35 am
 

@Felipe: THE WT has dozens of FREE WORKERS to Edit articles over and over again. They have the $$ and the time to review over and over before sending it out. JW Survey does not have that Luxury. Personally I never noticed the technical errors and I am sure many others did not. I think we need to listen to the message and the point of view CF and others are making.
The articles are approached from a personal experienced point of view which is the best way to approach an article from personal experience. We need to read what the message is and not look for minor grammar errors. We are not “competing” with the WT. We are telling it like it REALLY is.
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 Gameisover says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:21 am
 

I’m beginning to be afraid to write comments if we have Felipe checking us out and correcting every “mistake”. I guess you have not been out very long. I can see the spirit of looking for the straw. Very elder like.

 
 
 

 Zappa-Esque says:

 June 13, 2016 at 10:38 am
 

You neglected to use a capital T for “they have to be great in content and form” …….[just …..proof-reading!]
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 Oubliette says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:22 pm
 

The short answer: sure. Anyone can “resign” from being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses at any time and for any reason … and every other JW, friend and family member alike will all shun them, often without even knowing the reason except that is what they are told to do by the Watchtower leaders.
Let’s review: it’s a cult!
Reply
 

 Outandabout says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:21 pm
 

I love it when you point out it’s a cult, Oubliette. Keep doing that.
 I’m actually very hot under the collar over a blood death near here recently. Let’s not forget that the WT are happy to continue to kill their followers rather than remove the blood ban and risk being sued and exposed as frauds.

Let’s review: the Blood Cult don’t hesitate to kill their followers for money and power.
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 Gary says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:51 pm
 

Welcome to the real reason
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 Gary says:

 June 11, 2016 at 3:54 pm
 

They are losing
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 David says:

 June 11, 2016 at 4:09 pm
 

They are fraud and will sink like the titanic. The scripture below show that they practice what God hates.
Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
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 gary says:

 June 11, 2016 at 4:24 pm
 

they want you to judge, that’s their only freedom x
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 gary says:

 June 11, 2016 at 4:13 pm
 

Heads hands feet, a Song For Suzie
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 Frankie's Market says:

 June 11, 2016 at 5:11 pm
 

Disappointed, but hardly surprised or shocked in the way that WT.org explains the shunning policy to potential new converts. The thing is, these new convention videos showing the treatment of DF/DA individuals make for a much more powerful statement than printed words and explanations in a FAQ. What’s really surprising about the “Remain Loyal To Jehovah” convention is how candid the Society is being to the public and about the very unpleasant silent treatment you’re going to experience from your friends and loved ones if you decide to leave the organization. Usually, events like the Convention and the Memorial emphasize all the positive sounding themes. But these talks and videos that deal with “Remain loyal to Jehovah…. Or else!!!!” is sure to scare off many interested ones who don’t want to open up the possibility of their own family being torn apart by shunning. In the Society’s effort to cling to the publishers that remain, they are very likely repelling potential new converts in the heavy-handed methods that are being used to coerce loyalty to the organization. What’s ironic is that for years, WT has downplayed or denied the extent of shunning to the public. They have discredited online YouTube messages that talk about shunning as being the product of disgruntled, “mentally diseased” apostates. Yet here they are in 2016, presenting their own video dramatizations to the world of how shunning really works! If WT collapses and the GB are exposed for the frauds they are, they will have been their own worst enemy.
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 Big B says:

 June 13, 2016 at 7:42 am
 

@ Frankie’s Market
The irony doesn’t stop at the Convention with them chasing off possible converts. How about them asking for brothers specializing in law to help them out a few months ago?
The only possible attorneys in the organization will be those that came in with the credentials in hand before being baptized. Of course, due to their ridiculous stand against witnesses furthering their education the Governing Body opted for getting minimum wage, dead end jobs, so as to push a career in pioneering. As a result the Governing Body is now reaping the consequences of that policy.
As you said they have been and will continue to be their own worst enemy. The Watchtower will eventually implode and collapse on itself. It’s just a matter of time.
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 Josie Whale says:

 June 11, 2016 at 6:54 pm
 

gEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!
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 Steve McRoberts says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:29 pm
 

If the Watchtower religion was in reality the way it presents itself to the media and outsiders, then taking whole blood transfusions would be “a matter of personal conscience”; people could freely come and go in and out of the religion with no psychological trauma; and there would be no issues regarding their handling of child abuse cases.
In short, there would be no critical need for sites such as this if only they would live up to their imagined image of themselves!
Till that day comes, thanks for keeping up the great work that you do!
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 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 June 12, 2016 at 12:20 am
 

A very astute observation Steve. It should be a case of “nothing to see here”, which if they truly were gods organisation you would expect – especially when the ARC shone a light on them – they should have set the benchmark for good practice. It turns out nothing they say can be trusted, from child abuse allegations to lame telly awards; they are a far cry from “the truth” they claim the patent on.
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:24 am
 

So true EAB.
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 Dwc says:

 June 11, 2016 at 7:44 pm
 

Just for the record after day 2 of my last convention… Yesterday during the shun videos they did not mention in any way to shun inactive ones who commit gross sins. Not at all mentioned.
Then today they pleaded with inactive ones and mentioned hey are going to make an effort to recover them.
Seems to me they are back tracking.
Day 2 had a pretty decent video drama as well. They are really pulling on the human emotions and the concept of the new system to keep the masses in line.
My wife knows my feelings and was bawling pleading with me not to leave. I will have to do this in the right way for sure.
Anyways thanks for the update CF.
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 Telescopium says:

 June 11, 2016 at 9:45 pm
 

Dwc,
 I’m sorry you have to go through all this without your wife’s support.

Does she let you explain your reasons?
Reply
 
 

 Imgonaburn says:

 June 12, 2016 at 4:29 am
 

Thank you for your comment. I hope the same occurs (re- the shunning of non disfellowshipped ones) at the convention where my family will be attending this summer.
 The thought of what lies ahead is constantly at the back of my mind whilst I’m busy, then at the forefront of my mind whilst I’m trying to relax.
 However, all that conditioning that I received during my 30 year indoctrination programme kicked in whilst I was watching the bunker videos. I even got emotional at the thought of how the bros and sis were just trying to do what they think is right in Jehovah’s eyes and remain loyal. All I could see were the faces of my own loved ones superimposed over the faces of those cringy actors. I had to catch my breath! I was torn between feeling admiration and pity for them. I can see that the emotive message behind this years convention is going to cause some audience members to feel this is ‘the best ever’ convention rather than the worst. For me, that’s probably the most disturbing part of the whole situation.
 My husband was getting ready for the meeting this morning and I must’ve been wearing my ‘relaxing bitch’ face. He asked me what’s wrong n I initially denied that anything was bothering me. He pressed me about it so I said it sometimes pisses me off that he wants to go sit shoulder to shoulder with people, who were once lifelong friends of mine, that think I’m going to die at Armageddon. He replied that ‘I’m the only one that thinks that way’ to be true and that he NEVER thinks about losing me at Armageddon. I suggested that he start thinking about it and to question how he feels about it but I know he won’t. It’s forbidden. He’ll just carry on drinking the Kool Aid and put my fears down to hormones or being silly enough to fill my head with apostate lies off the internet.
 I hope that the shunning talks are presented to my family as only applicable to ones that are disfellowshipped. I’m as fearful of this convention programme as the jws will be of the great tribulation when they see the mind controlling bunker videos.

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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 11:50 am
 

@Imgonaburn- your husband and mine, cognitive dissonance at it’s finest. My husband does not believe I will die at Armageddon either, but not because he doesn’t feel that I am now in that doomed apostate class, but because he believes that I still have time to turn around and repent before the end comes.
So for now he is choosing to ignore that the flaw is in the belief system itself. Instead he sees the flaw is in me, and I am the only one who is making it hard on myself and him by my staunch refusal to ‘return to Jehovah’.
I’m trying very hard to nudge him often and gently to get him to think and ask questions without pressing so hard that he gets angry and defensive.
It is indeed a very fine line.
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:13 pm
 

There are some good tactics outlined in “Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs” by Steve Hassan. One suggestion offered is: “Rather than discussing the doctrines of a group, I shift the focus to the beliefs of other controlling people or groups. With religious cults, it helps to talk about your spirituality and faith. If you find common ground, it will be easier to talk. Spell out criteria that you can agree on. This takes you a step closer to the goal of helping the person broaden his perspective.”
The book also discusses how to recognize the difference between the cult self and the authentic self and how to make progress based on which you are dealing with.
WS
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 Adrian Treloar says:

 June 12, 2016 at 4:41 am
 

@Dwc
 If your wife’s best friends are JWs, and she goes with you she’ll have to start her friendships from scratch. That’s going to be hard on her. Keep being understanding, and hopefully your unconditional love will help her realise how things should be between her and the people who say they love her.
 Good luck and be strong.

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 Dwc says:

 June 12, 2016 at 7:16 pm
 

Hey appreciate the comment… Yeah her family is firm in it. I have to do this the right way.
Just a side note day 3 end of the convention. Last video is of the “new system” and everyone who has been in the videos are there and at the very end the father who lost his youngest son is reunited on the beach.
Everyone was crying, heck I was crying! It is powerfully emotional stuff. I feel so angry yet at this point just sad… They are using the hopes and dreams of mostly sincere individuals who love God.
I know a lot here are atheist, agnostic or other. I personally firmly believe in God but not this organization. I have decided to never let these negative things in my life anymore. I am going to choose based on the bible what is true. And I am looking forward to when Jesus will make all things right and do away with all organized religion.
Randy it is good to hear your voice/txt again!
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 Imgonaburn says:

 June 13, 2016 at 3:04 am
 

And there you have it! As expected the videos provoke an emotional response so you get warm and fuzzy about the entire programme, forgetting all about any disturbing parts or points that cause you to doubt. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not attacking you for your response. I’m just highlighting how their methods work. I mentioned in a previous comment about the GB tactic of pulling at heartstrings using as much sensory stimulation as possible.
 They should have shown in the video the billions of non jws getting slaughtered, including the ex jws that have faded or been dfd and not returned to Jehovah before the Arma-deadline! Heck what about people in the public eye that we admire, our favourite actor, musician etc
 How about showing a brother devastated that his wife or son dies in his arms because they ‘looked back’ at the things behind as Lots wife did!
 It’s not balanced!! People inside the religion should be forced to think about what ‘Everlasting Life’ will be like without their loved ones. After all if, as it’s been suggested, people are leaving the organisation in droves, then surely those that remain need to have their resolve to stay strengthened? Is that what just happened at this convention?
 Every single Jehovah’s Witness is going to lose somebody they know or even love at Armageddon…but no, let’s not talk about our losses [says the GB] lets remain positive [lose track of reality] and focus on the blessings of the resurrection hope. Ain’t life grand-albeit without my spouse/child/brother/sister/parent

Wait a minute? What is ‘the message of judgement’ that was mentioned in bunker video? I was so busy thinking about how wonderfully brave the bros and sis are with their bucket loads of loyalty and integrity, I forgot about that part!! Have they gone back to that old chestnut?
 If the gb instruct the rank and file to go out and preach this so called unpalatable message ( Kevin couldn’t stomach it ) then they risk getting jumped on by govt for disseminating hatred. BOOM! Great Tribulation begins. They all get rounded up and excluded from society. We get to live in peace. If I could watch a video depicting THAT I could get warm and fuzzy too! Maybe I should change my keep schtum stance towards my jw family and warn them??

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 Kat says:

 June 11, 2016 at 9:04 pm
 

once your sucked into the cult only then do you know about shunning, only then will you find out for yourself how hard it is to leave without being treated worse than a criminal child molester.
your day will come GB, lies deceit and manipulation, running scared of losing your charity status?
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 Grey Tower says:

 June 12, 2016 at 1:04 am
 

Former Jehovah’s Witness here, brought up from birth in that organisation. I was baptised prior to 1985 when the baptismal questions were changed. I voted with my feet in the mid 1970’s and simply disappeared. I had not done anything wrong and I was never disfellowshipped. Back then, nobody needed to hand in their resignation by letter. Back then, there were no rules about shunning Witnesses who simply left.
Regarding the FAQ ‘Can a Person Resign from Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?’ the part that says “Rather than shunning such ones,” applies only to those Witnesses who have slowed down, who are discouraged, but who have not “abandoned their faith.” The FAQ fails to say how they treat anyone who resigns, although it is implicit that any Witness whose actions place them outside of the organization (by joining another religion, for example) would be shunned.
The worst thing about all of this is that those Witnesses who resign and who are not guilty of serious sin (such as immorality or smoking) or of wanting to join another religion will still be shunned!
Regarding the FAQ ‘Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Shun Former Members of Their Religion?’ notice how they connect being disfellowshipped with committing “a serious sin.” Well, it now transpires that criticizing the Governing Body and/or denying Watchtower teachings is now “a serious sin”. So any baptised and inactive Witness must now be shunned simply because they no longer go along with the Governing Body and its teachings and demands!
You have to really dig deep to uncover the truth about shunning. The footnote on page 209 of the Jehovah’s Witness publication “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love” under the heading “How to Treat a Disfellowshipped Person” says: “Bible principles on this subject apply equally to those who disassociate themselves from the congregation.”
One reason the organisation refuses to admit that any Witness who resigns will be shunned is to put on a public front of being Christian. The truth is they are guilty of dishonesty and cowardice. The other reason they refuse to admit that people who resign will be shunned is to control and manipulate the members. They don’t want anybody to find out the real reasons why people leave – and it’s not because they have become wicked and immoral! It’s because they have discovered the truth about the organisation and its leaders – that they can no longer go along with the constantly changing “increased light” or the fact that paedophiles in the congregation are not reported to the authorities or that the leaders are demanding unquestioning obedience.
Thank you for exposing the shameful truth about how Jehovah’s Witnesses are being manipulated by the Governing Body in order to keep them loyal to the organization.
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 factsnotfiction says:

 June 12, 2016 at 1:29 am
 

Just wondered if anyone has seen this in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/09/moment-changed-me-quitting-jehovahs-witnesses
Notice what he/she says about being shunned even by best friend.
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:40 am
 

An excellent read, and brief. (For those with little time or short attention spans.)
Reply
 
 

 Grey Tower says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:20 am
 

Thanks for that link to the Guardian article. I will be sure to use it on the Yahoo Religion & Spirituality section.
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:44 am
 

My thoughts exactly, Grey Tower. Great post!
Reply
 
 
 

 Anders Andersen says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:26 am
 

Another thing the FAQ conveniently doesn’t mention is all the actions that are seen as disassociatingredients yourself.
According to the elders manual, also accepting a blood transfusion when needed means you have disassociated yourself.
So the FAQ not only leads people to believe you can leave without negative consequences, it is also obscuring the more controversial ideas the Witnesses have on why people should be shunned.
Reply
 

 Anonymous says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:52 am
 

This brazen use of “disassociatingredients” is too brazen for me. You are hereby shunned..
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot does that mean–brazen? So, guys and ladies, you can’t have cajones or any “brass balls” to be a JW. (Rutherford would be dismissed by the way, if he weren’t part of the “in” leadership). Subjective and arbitrary, as much as being shunned for gluttony.
Let’s go back to the look for many, many leaders and members–Over-eaters Anonymous candidates, and these are not shunned for gluttony (2 Thess 3:10; Matt 11:19)? It’s glandular! Is eating filling a void? drinking? sex?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBBJzaEoITc
PS: A horrifying terrorist attack in central Florida, USA–caused by religious radicals.
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 rikos says:

 June 12, 2016 at 5:01 am
 

Thank you for exposing the lies of the watchtowers.
 At list there is some one who bring the lies of the watchtower in to light, on this specific subject. The general public and the jehovah witness must be informe for the corruption coverup and the twisted lies of the watchtower.
 Our voice as ex-jehovah witnesses must be extreme lought. we must destroy this organization which deceiving the general public, and special the naive jehovah witnesses.

Reply
 
 

 JustMakinObservation says:

 June 12, 2016 at 6:24 am
 

When TC Russel started this cult 100+ years ago,The Watchtower did not anticipate Covert Fade and the rest of the writing department of JW Survey. Keep pressing hard on their tumors of hypocrisy. I m reminded of a scene in The Matrix, where the Merovingian tells Neo and Morpheus and Trinity “ Tell the fortune teller that her time is….up”. Well done guys, press on!
Reply
 
 

 Randy Galbraith says:

 June 12, 2016 at 6:38 am
 

Hi Everyone,
This is a brief response without having read all the details.
I left the faith on good terms in Oct of 2007. No action was taken. We openly celebrated Christmas in 2009. My name was announced at the Kingdom Hall in March of 2010 despite the fact that I repeatedly asked them not to use the “short form” wording that would leave audience members with the impression I was disfellowshipped. I would not have minded a longer expression stating that I was an atheist and one that made it clear they were not asking for me to be shunned.
Upon learning from SDB:SSY, the anonymous JW at HQs (the Union Hills congregation Phoenix, AZ, elders would not return my phone calls or or answer my letters), that action had been taken, I wrote him a letter. In the letter I asked:
Please explain how anyone can leave the faith without being labeled “wicked” (1 Corinthians 5:13), short of continuing year-after-year to live by some undefined subset of the rules that govern active members.
That was in 2010, no answer was ever given. I asked SDB:SSY, again, 6 more times — approximately at one year intervals. The key bit, is not that, there is no way to resign — of course there is — as an elder myself I knew exactly what the steps were. The question is can they do so without facing reprisal? Or at what point does the organization feel they no longer can induce others to shun a former member, specifically naming them at the Kingdom Hall, as a form of slander?
Take care everyone,
 -Randy
 ps. One bit of advice I give former members is this: JWs, especially the leadership believe in shunning, but unless you do to, don’t accept it. Don’t assume the average JW will always shun. In real life, it often simply does not work out the way the leaders would desire. When I visit Quesnel, BC, and see JWs I know, I’m friendly with them. When I attend the Kingdom Hall, once per year for the memorial, I’m friendly and conversational. When I approach Witnesses on the street — same thing. Thus many of us in the Ex-JW community do everything we can to maintain normal relations. Of course sad to say, even with this, some very dear family members, make a point of completely shunning me — as we all get older and our lives change. Very sad!

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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:02 am
 

I agree with many of your points, Randy. In addition what makes me angry is the insidious way the GB ties the directive to shun to your relationship with Jehovah.
If they really called it what it was and admitted that it’s their own man made rule to maintain control, there would be widespread calls for repeal and reform from inside the congregations and far more people would just ignore it in the meantime.
But by continuing to insist that it’s what God wants and what he requires and that it’s helping, even when it offends sensibilities and even when it is spoken against, people who love their friends and family members will equate shunning with loyalty to God and they will do it anyway even though it hurts THEM as well.
Makes me so angry.
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 ruthlee says:

 June 12, 2016 at 8:05 am
 

Well isn’t this just a pack of fabrication. Well done mr covertfade in trying to unravel this very convoluted faq. It seems to me they cannot be honest and actually say what the rules are because as we all know they will haemorrhage new recruits like a cut vein. Also this faq needs unravelling by a legal whizz because us in the know, know but cannot necessarily explain things correctly. It’s amazing how this question is being raised now they surely know we have had enough of their nonsense and we want unconditional fellowship with our families. I am particularly annoyed at the arrogant assumption that I as a fader want to go on a moral rampage and murder spree so my former friends would have to treat me like doggy doo shoe dirt. I just want to fade no longer attend all their functions but maintain my dignity as a human being and please god as I please Surely it would be a loving thing to let me go and not treat me like a killer and all the other freethinking faders out there. I wonder what the gb think they are achieving by this obnoxious stance clearly it is not working because we will fade regardless of the consequences and to hell with their manmade rules. Cheers Ruthlee
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 JudyQExJW says:

 June 12, 2016 at 9:44 am
 

Wonderfully written and investigated article! The org is getting bolder by the day- their overconfidence is mind boggling. Before my husband & I left together coming on 2 years now, a couple in our hall were having obvious problems. He had stopped attending but his wife continued faithfully, encouraged and supported by all to remain strong. Eventually we saw him return, albeit with visible resentment. You see, he had started having doubts and thought about leaving, as some in his family had already done. Only months later did my husband find out through his friend (who found out from a gossipy elder) that the elders had met with this poor man and laid it out clearly- if he didn’t adjust his thinking to get rid of his doubts, they would sanction a scripturally approved divorce for his wife, WHO WANTED TO GET ONE IF HE DIDN’T CHANGE! Are you really telling me there’s no pressure or coercion there? Where is that talked about in the FAQ? Only in the shepherd book, where it ranks spiritual endangerment higher than physical danger. My former best friend, who now shuns me completely, was smacked around by her husband early in their marriage, even while pregnant, but she was just told to try to be a better wife. But elders would sanction a divorce for this other sister, who’s husband obviously loves her (as he came back to meetings) for “spiritual endangerment”. The misalignment of priorities is beyond shocking- your husband can beat you senseless without much intervention but if he starts exercising critical thinking skills, we’ll swoop in to save you from spiritual harm. That broken arm will mend on its own but the potential for a mind to be extricated from bondage to WT, well that’s serious and needs to be prevented at all costs. Articles like this are doing an excellent job pointing out these inconsistencies and outright deceptions. Keep up this wonderful important work!
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:17 am
 

@JudyQ – it’s stories like these that convinced me that these cannot be God’s people. How would Jehovah ever require a woman to stay with a man who beats her, but let a woman out of an otherwise loving marriage for lesser reasons of spiritual endangerment? These ridiculous and harmful double standards are clearly not from God!
It enrages me that even victims perpetuate the abuse.
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:19 am
 

Misalignment of priorities, indeed!
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 Jakemon75 says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:42 am
 

Next time I bump into an elder and he makes his pitch to “come on down” for a meeting with idiots to discuss my current “stand” I’ll simply reply “you are not authorized to coerce or pressure me to remain a Jehovah’s Witness” then direct him to the website and let him read it for himself. We all know how that will go.
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 Twmack says:

 June 12, 2016 at 11:25 am
 

They use the name JHVH as a weapon to force submission.
 In the shunning issue they make it a choice of either loyalty
 to JHVH or loyalty to family. You’re cornered, no room to move.

They take un-authorised liberties with that name. The texts
 misapplied to shunning are mainly taken from the Greek
 Scriptures ( New Testament), but there are No Greek
 manuscripts with the (Tetragrammaton) the Hebrew word
 transliterated as YHWH or JHVH .

The name Jehovah simply does not appear in complete form
 in the New Testament. So how can they use that name to
 threaten, people into shunning their own flesh and blood.

Further liberties are taken by adding that name in their NWT
 over 230 times, ( Despite the Bible warning against adding to it)
 If God had wanted his name there could he not have done it
 without their interference ? Would his name not have been
 present in Greek Manuscripts?

Just check out how many times they attach the name Jehovah
 to a threat.

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 Paul says:

 June 12, 2016 at 2:20 pm
 

This article is very timely and 100% on point.
 Watchtower misleads people to join, misleads them through its teachings, and is further trying to mislead the general public via their website FAQ.
 We simple stopped attending meetings a year ago because of changes to teachings that we felt were not scripturally supported. We shared our questions with some close friends. Within 24 hours of sharing those doubts we had an email from one of them insisting that we confirm our belief that the GB were Gods sole channel of communication. When I replied that I still believed in God and his word (and used the Watchtower ploy of not answering the question) I was informed that this person and their family would be shunning us as bad associations. Within a few weeks others were cutting us off, and finally we heard rumours circulating that we were apostates. All without any of these other people (apart from the first couple) asking us what our concerns were. Shunning is real. It hurts. It is a cult method employed to retain a “captive membership” as Angus Stewart described it. Thanks for exposing more Watchtower lies, hypocrisy and deceit.

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 robert paulson says:

 June 12, 2016 at 10:13 pm
 

In the WTBTS submission to the Australian Child abuse royal commission— now on record —
9.372 Moreover, the suggested finding has no connection with preventing or responding to child sexual abuse and, furthermore, appears not to appreciate the difference between disassociation and inactivity. As was explained, if someone decides to no longer associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses that is a personal decision and no disciplinary action is taken against that person.
9.373 For example, Mr Geoffrey Jackson stated: 283 “I thought I made it quite clear I don’t agree with that supposition”. We do not have a “so-called spiritual police force” to chase after ones who no longer want to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
9.374 For example, Mr O’Brien stated: 284 “They don’t have to disassociate themselves to stop associating. They don’t lose their spiritual or familial association by being inactive.”
so maybe we have a something to contest legally if people are told to shun us ?
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 13, 2016 at 4:14 am
 

@ Robert p – part of the problem is still this: JWs are told that when there is a conflict, they must obey God as ruler rather than men. And they are taught that this shunning principle is a command from God.
So even if legal action is pursued and legal precedent is set, the GB would likely encourage regular JWs to continue the practice, even if there were legal consequences.
If there were consequences, it would likely be described as foretold persecution for upholding Jehovah’s high standards.
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 Gary says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:05 am
 

‘Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive’, Sir Walter Scott.
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 Gary says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:17 am
 

‘Crosses are green crosses are blue your friends didn’t make it through’, Dance on a volcano, Genesis (ironically enough 🙂 )
Leave no one behind, the is brilliant:-)

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 Gary says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:18 am
 

View
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 Gary says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:45 am
 

After watching the videos do you do feel like a ‘free person’?
So they’ve come to spy on freedom and say ‘welcome to the home by the sea’.
If your mentality retired, well ‘ding’ Pavlos dog.

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 Gary says:

 June 13, 2016 at 7:04 am
 

One ear doesn’t sound so bad said Beethoven.
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 quietabandon says:

 June 13, 2016 at 8:03 am
 

I recently reached out to my parents after finding out about the convention contents through this site, and (not being able to figure out whether they had had theirs, after searching the JW.org site), simply sent them an email stating that I was aware of recent instruction from the GB that suggests they must shun even non-DS/DA “unrepentant” inactive ones (“faders”), expressing my fear that they would do it, and that it is an unloving practice that would do nothing but cause pain, not a “return”. I said nothing that could be considered apostate apart from iterating (as I have before, since childhood in fact) that shunning is wrong.
My mother called me and said that she and and my dad had discussed it and they weren’t going to do it, but that she considers herself a “flawed Witness” for not being able to bring herself to do it. Thanks for the reassurance, mom.
My dad was much less ambivalent, and said that he would never, ever do it. Turns out they haven’t gone to their convention yet, and my greatest hope is that at least he will hear the vileness coming from the platform and walk out, realizing in that moment that our bond was indeed being weaponized. Mom, however…it’s already halfway operational with her. “Shun-gun” is excellent shorthand, by the way.
Anyway, I encourage scared folks to consider writing a few simple lines to their JW loved ones, if you feel that they’re on the fence and might need a bit of help to put all of this together. I doubt I’ve heard the end of this, but my parents BOTH said that they wouldn’t do it when I expressed my fears. That’s something.
 But, my mother, as always, did parrot the party line:

“Shunning, as you call it…”
 “Mom, it’s called shunning. It’s on the program for the convention, on JW.org.”
 “All right, all right…well, it is scriptural.”
[Silence]
“Anyway, there have been some cases where it’s been appreciated and people have come back.”
[Silence]
“Your dad and I love you and your sister. But you’re going to die!”
 “Mom, we aren’t discussing this.”
 “This is what we believe is the truth!”
 “I know you do.”

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 Big B says:

 June 13, 2016 at 4:37 pm
 

@ quietabandon
Tell your Mom if you get a chance: “All of us have an “expiration date” and will die sooner or later, some sooner than others due to the inherited morbidity of Adamic sin and accidental death.
That being said the chances of dying at Armaggedon are absolutely slim, none and no way. And because the chances are so impossibly small its not worth worrying about. There are more chances of being struck by lightening while being bitten by a great white shark, while performing a hula on a surf board than seeing the Great Tribulation or Armageddon come to fruition.
Refer your loving Mother to the July 15, 2013 study article where they throw “Chuckie” Taze Russell under the bus with his followers and look at the chart (time line) that shows the rapture. Yeah, the marvelous chart showing all of what has to happen before Armageddon comes. (Everyone scream “New Light!”)
I’ll leave this last thought with you feel free to use it or not: If anyone on the earth today thinks that they will live to see any of this time-line fulfilled (more than 100 years in my opinion) before they die then there is a padded room and coats with 60″ sleeves (comes with matching straps and buckles) waiting for their delusional selves.
By my estimation, if this chart is correct (big IF here) the Great Crowd that survives Armageddon is not even born yet!
My Mom and other J.W. relatives who served faithfully for over 60 years watching 1975 come and go have all died; disappointed, discouraged, disillusioned and disgusted (not necessarily in that order). Lives totally wasted and for what? Gathering treasures in heaven that you cannot withdraw or spend? Waiting for the “day of Jehovah” that never comes. How pathetically sad.
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 James Broughton says:

 June 13, 2016 at 8:48 am
 

Brilliant research CF. One of the marks of a cult is control. As Oubliette rightly says, the membership will do precisely what the GB says, even if it means lying.
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 Jaime says:

 June 13, 2016 at 9:07 am
 

Thank you once again for another excellent article. Kind Regards, Jaime
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 Sharon Christensen says:

 June 13, 2016 at 11:56 am
 

Thanx Covert and all at JW Survey for giving us this info. Heck with whether spelling mistakes or sentence structure not quite right…the message is there…that is the main thing…keep up the excellent work! :))
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 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 13, 2016 at 3:42 pm
 

I don’t think the shunning message has changed from “the old days” from what I saw in the convention. Inactive Witnesses are still Witnesses and won’t be shunned by decree (personal actions will be what ever they will be) IF the inactive one has not committed an offense meriting a DF.
They are still considered “weak” Witnesses due to their non-participation, but that’s it. In my 40 years as a Witness, I’ve never seen an inactive witness shunned unless said DF-ing behavior came to light. Then, depending on how visible such behavior is by others as a reflection of Witnesses in general, the person would be DF’ed even without his participation in the process.
If the community at large no longer really considers him a Witness, his behavior MAY be overlooked.
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 Randy Galbraith says:

 June 13, 2016 at 6:19 pm
 

Hi WitnessForTheDefense,
My history goes back many years too. Baptized at 16 in 1981 to leaving the faith in 2007 to having my name announced in March of 2010. Generally what you say is true. However, it is important to keep in mind that while Jehovah’s Witnesses provide guidelines to elders, they place no time limit on themselves or specify what actions qualify for the designation of “disassociation by action.” My own case is a good example of this, we openly celebrated Christmas for the 2009 season and have each year since. Yet they took action only against me and not other baptized members of my household. Why?
Although only the elders of the Union Hills congregation could really answer that, to me it was fairly clear. Having served with these brothers as an elder myself, only to resign in 2005, then leave in 2007, they no doubt felt greater disappointment in my choices than that of my family. A rationalization of he is “weak” provides a sort of rationalization that allows on to excuse disappointing behavior. But a presentation of deliberate choice, directly made and not excused raises the sense of righteousness in these men.
But… really feelings of righteousness and indignation is their problem! Just leave me alone is the correct answer, but alas, this takes some beyond-the-faith thinking to get to.
Thus you’ll notice DBA is pursued, even years later, where the former member takes some public action, like openly celebrating Christmas. In one case a former member wrote a self-published book critical of the faith, five years after leaving, and this prompted DBA.
This is why I asked SDB:SSY the question I did. Because the way to avoid DBA is to show a measure of obedience to dogma of the faith year-after-year — to maintain the “weak” status. Well, for many of us, that just isn’t the way we want to live and if we did it would involve hypocrisy. Did I continue to agree with Rutherford’s reasons for nixing Christmas? No! Both him and his 1925 failure is way in the past and is no reason to withhold a normal childhood from my children.
To some it is a small point, but those who are disassociated, either of their own accord or “by action” are not “disfellowshipped.” Yes, obedience members are asked to shun them, but such individuals have not been through the judicial process and judged as lacking repentance and offered the opportunity for appeal. Disassociated individuals also may not be informed when and if an announcement is made.
Kind regards,
 -Randy

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 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 13, 2016 at 8:03 pm
 

I appreciate your candid reply. I’ve been DF’ed once and publicly reproved twice. I’m no candidate for any higher position than PFC in Jehovah’s Army…Publisher First Class, although I think my “First Class” rating may be only in my mind. I am apparently not qualified even to carry mics, but I’ve no problem with that.
I see the organization with all it’s warts and fallibilities, but I still think it’s closer to the Bible than any other Bible-based “Christian” religious organization. Not one of them is “perfect”…not one. But this one is closer, in my opinion.
I’m against any “modernization” of strict Biblical principals to conform to the modern age. Homosexuality and any form of sex outside of a heterosexual marriage is still wrong. Shunning for egregious behavior is still right, even for adult family members.
People know the rules when they “check in”…there is NO easy “check out”…you agree with it and enter, or you shouldn’t.
Buy the ticket…take the ride.
I’ve read both sides of the story regarding 607, NGO, etc. and I’m OK with. I don’t expect anywhere even close to “perfection” among the GB. I don’t feel enders on up are appointed by Holy Spirit, but I do feel the Holy Spirit guides (whether those in charge take such guidance) the organization as a whole when looked at from the wide view.
No other “Christian” religion is growing at the rate as the JW’s. We’re small relative to the “big boys”, but we’re growing at a percentage rate faster than they are.
I do not disbelieve any of the JW core teachings and deal with the others in my usual skeptical and jaundiced manner. Even today, I do not adhere to many of their admonitions and really hope Jehovah grades on a curve, or I’m screwed!!
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 Victor says:

 June 14, 2016 at 2:26 am
 

Ah… if you are aware of the all story 607, ngo (while many JWs lost their life for political neutrality) and it’s still ok for you… i don’t know how you can sleep the night.
“No other “Christian” religion is growing at the rate as the JW’s”. Simply, it’s not true. Please, check this link
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/preach.php
 JWs are decreasing. Last year 260,273 people were baptized but the publishers have increased only 18,560 (Yearbook 2016).
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 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 14, 2016 at 11:10 am
 

And yet the average number of active Witnesses grows year after year, going from a bit over 2 mil in 1980 to 8 mil in 2015. The results for this year will, I’m sure, show yet more increase.
Show me a religious hierarchy of the stature of JW’s or greater, culminating in the Roman Catholic Church, that doesn’t have “dirty hands” every so often. Imperfect humans cannot create a perfect organization, even one backed by Jehovah, as was shown in both the Jewish and first century Christian organizations described in the Bible.
I believe the JW’s are “less bad” than any other Bible-based religious organization and follow Bible rules and principles most closely. I discount all religions not based on the Bible and, of course, do not hold with atheists nor agnostics.

 
 
 

 Kl says:

 June 14, 2016 at 11:31 pm
 

1.5 % growth last year. Population growth averages 1.3%. Simply stated, if witnesses would just keep their children in the truth, without bringing in any outsiders, increase would virtually match population growth. Add to that that places like Europe has had virtually no increase for the past 6 years. 0.00001 %, one could argue that per capita there is much less witnesses in Europe compared to 10 years ago. Don’t take my word for it, check the yearbook. If you take the net increase in Europe and you devide that between the numbers of hours preached, assuming that an average publisher reports 10 hours per month, it takes over a 100 years of preaching per convert. If you take into account that 90 % of baptisms, are the children of witnesses, this figure goes up exponentially. Having been born in, these figures match my personal experience. I’ve hardly ever seen anyone come in. I don’t have any strong feelings about this but if you have any objectivity you know there is something wrong with this picture. Fastest growing religion in the world is a phrase out of an eighties watchtower I’m afraid :):):). The increases that are achieved are mostly in third world countries, which is also an alarming statistic. I project that as these statistics get worse in the near future, there is a high probability that they will simply just stop publishing the yearbook.
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 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 13, 2016 at 8:11 pm
 

I failed to respond to some of your points. Once you’re baptized, you’re a Witness FOREVER unless DF’ed or DA’ed. Of course, you know that.
If some elder bodies decide to proceed with a DBA years after an “offending act”, it’s on them. They do have the right to do so, however. Your actions could have come about 20 years after you “went dark” and they still could have DBA’d you just because they felt like it. A person’s only recourse would be to move out of the area.
One should know this before “signing on the dotted line”….let the buyer (into this religion) beware. It’s like vary few others.
I’ve been associated with vindictive bodies of elders as well as lenient ones. It comes and goes, just like any other organizational body of overseers.
You just have to ride it out. Personally, I’m not looking for a way out, but I see both sides of the issues.
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 Randy Galbraith says:

 June 13, 2016 at 9:14 pm
 

Hi WitnessForTheDefense,
It is not uncommon for some former Witnesses to hold to the view that the Biblical interpretation of the Witnesses remains the most correct. I’m an atheist yet remain a Bible reader. In January of 2015 I joined the Unitarian Universalists. They’re one of the few faiths that directly accept atheists.
In regards to Christianity I do believe Jehovah’s Witnesses make a fundamental blunder in regards to Jesus. The mistake, I believe, is not picking up on shift in focus between “Jehovah” in the OT and “Jesus” in the NT. The NT authors all focus on Jesus as Son of God, as the Christ. The entire address is towards Jesus. All the evidence we have is they never used the divine name. And everywhere God is mentioned, it is always in relation to Jesus. The 237 times you see “Jehovah” in the NWT NT is an insertion that is not supported by the extent manuscripts we have.
But all this is really neither here nor there. What is important, I believe, is your own search for truth and understanding. Learning to parse material and come to your own conclusions is the important thing. You know Proverbs 3:5 says, “Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding” which of course is fine, unless “Jehovah” becomes a mere euphemism for “trusted, beyond question, religious leaders”
Whether one stays or leaves, may we all find peace.
Take care,
 -Randy

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 Winston Smith says:

 June 14, 2016 at 5:06 pm
 

Excellent observation Randy. In fact, as I am sure you are aware, Romans 10:13 can be shown to contextually apply to Jesus, whereas the NWT changes the meaning of the scripture by inserting “Jehovah” in there. One of the many times where they tamper with the scriptures in order to force their own meaning. BTW, I consider myself a deist, and I also remain a bible reader.
WS

 
 

 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 15, 2016 at 7:55 pm
 

Appendix A5 of the ‘grey Bible” addresses the issue of Jehovah appearing in the NT to my satisfaction.

 
 

 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 16, 2016 at 1:28 am
 

I’ve looked into it, including the opposing position to yours and find the JW’s defense of why Jehovah’s name appears in the NT to be compelling enough to satisfy me, as it also is supported by some non-JW Bible scholars.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 16, 2016 at 4:17 am
 

@Witness
 Who are are these nameless scholars that purportedly support the JWs tampering with scriptures? Are they the same nameless scholars quotes in other Watchtower publications? Watchtower frequently quotes unreferenced “scholars” with make it exceedingly difficult for diligent students to trace their claims. Those who do track down these so-called “scholars” usually find that the quotes are taken out of context or the scholars credentials are sorey lacking.

There are over 5,000 ancient copies of the New Testament on hand and yet not one of them contains any reference to the Tetragrammaton. How is it that God could not preserve his own name in his own book? Now he needs a group of men to make unauthorized changes because he couldn’t take care of this? If the copies of the New Testament have 237 apparent errors in them, how can we trust anything else they say? I guess the scripture that states: “if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book” must be an error too, since the JWs have no qualms making such changes.
WS

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 16, 2016 at 4:29 am
 

@Witness
“Appendix A5 of the ‘grey Bible” addresses the issue of Jehovah appearing in the NT to my satisfaction”

I have done much more extensive extensive research than only going to one biased source and found that their claims for making this change are in unfounded. Here is one critical review: http://www.neirr.org/Tetragrammaton.htm
Your reasoning (and actually nearly the exact wording of your argument – evidence of programmed responses?) is similar to that of a good friend of mine when we discussed the 607 date issue (which has zero support outside the Watchtower). Because the Watchtower makes a lame attempt to justify their position JWs swallow it hook, line, and sinker without doing any thorough research. I encourage you to do research outside of the Watchtower resources. Track down some of those “scholarly” quotes they claim to reference. Otherwise your argument can be simply distilled down to: ‘it’s true because Watchtower said so.’
WS

 
 

 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 16, 2016 at 11:52 am
 

Again, I’m satisfied with the JW’s defense of using Jehovah’s name in the NT. Their defense sites many non-JW sources and Bibles.
Overall, I’m satisfied and comfortable with the JW’s translation of the Bible and interpretation of its application to modern-day life. I know you’re not, but I don’t care.
Being so anti-JW, what organized Bible-based religion are you…any of you…actually for? Any one of them? Possibly one of those wishy-washy “all inclusive” ones where all are accepted with open arms? Many of those exist, but it would be easy to poke holes in their accepted doctrine compared to Bible principle.
Or are you all some form of atheist, agnostic or separatist, feeling that non-organizational study of the Bible is what Jehovah requires (assuming you believe in Him)?
I know you’re against JW’s, but I’m equally skeptical of whatever you may be for.
Most people go “God shopping”…finding a doctrine, or no doctrine, that supports the way they want to live anyway. Conforming God to what they want as opposed to finding out what God wants and conforming their lives to it.
To each his own. My opinion is that of Joshua: “Now if it seems bad to you to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve… But as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.”

 
 
 

 Victor says:

 June 14, 2016 at 2:34 am
 

“Once you’re baptized, you’re a Witness FOREVER unless DF’ed or DA’ed. Of course, you know that.”
Sounds like a cult! Of course, you know that.
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 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 14, 2016 at 10:47 am
 

I don’t believe the JW’s are a cult any more than I believe the ancient Israelites or the first century Christians were a cult. They were commanded by Jehovah to stand apart from the world in general, the Israelites commanded to wear a blue fringe as a visual sign.
They both were very insular, limiting association with “outsiders” and treating those who left with even further social distance. Both groups were of the opinion that “once in, always in until you were their equivalent of DF’ed or DA’ed.
I believe that is what Jehovah wants of his people today as well. JW’s of today, as were the ancient 2 groups, are not an inclusive bunch. One is either with us or against us.
Everyone can make their own choice in this regard, but not change the consequences of such choice.
Sure, the JW’s are an imperfect organization, but to a certain extent so were the Israelites and first century Christians. So are all modern-day organized religions. Yet, Jehovah commands his people to be in an organized religion and indicates that there is only one such religion that is approved by Him. I believe it is the JW’s since I can see no other that conforms to Biblical standards of living, as “unmodern” and “uninclusive” as many of those standards are seen today.
So, we are not a cult. We are an extremely strict organization that requires anyone to meet certain standards to join and remain, and treats those members who can’t or don’t “keep up” with the same discipline that was meted out to those of Jehovah’s earlier organizations.
At least we don’t stone anybody anymore.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 14, 2016 at 3:33 pm
 

Witness,
Please check your data with a reputable source like pewresearch.orgs. JW’s are NOT the fastest growing Christian denomination in the world. Baptists are. JWs are increasing at about the same rate as Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists, which is reasonable since all three started around the same time. As for the fastest growing religion overall it is Islam.
WS

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 14, 2016 at 3:39 pm
 

“We are an extremely strict organization that requires anyone to meet certain standards to join and remain…”
Sounds like a cult to me. Call it what you like. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
BTW, do your elders know you post on apostate websites? At least we can be reasonably sure they won’t stone you for it.
WS

 
 
 
 
 

 Grey Tower says:

 June 14, 2016 at 1:34 am
 

Witness for the Defense, after 1975 the two baptismal questions were changed. The second question now confirms that the baptismal candidate is now in association with “Jehovah’s spirit-filled organization.” So if you disagree with them and want to leave they claim YOU are the one who is shunning them! Only after 1975 did they say a letter of resignation had to be given to the elders.
What’s changed is the instruction to shun an inactive Witness who has not been disfellowshipped, who has not gone before a judicial committee but who is guilty of “serious sin” – which includes questioning the Governing Body or not agreeing with their teachings.
In other words, once you have said “yes” to that second baptismal question, you will be punished if you want to leave.
It was not always like that. I know because my parents became Witnesses in the late 1930’s and I have access to the society literature that proves how they have changed their view over shunning. Yes, the Witnesses have lots of good things about them, but God forbids his people to turn away (hide or shun) their own flesh and blood (Isaiah 58:7).
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 JustMakinObservation says:

 June 14, 2016 at 1:55 pm
 

WitnessFortheDefence!
1-JW’S are a cult.
 2-The Israelites were a nation not a cult or a religion.
-The Israelites never looked at their devotion to their God as a religion,but rather as “their way of life” or culture. Each of the 12 tribes were born into a designated service…eg, the Levites were born to be priests,but a more appropriate term is Kohen which in Hebrew meant administrator. The Dan tribe were judges(protectors) …and so on. Non of them were elected to perform their duties. But as we can see, with JW’S they are voted for or elected into office. Further more, there is no word for hebrew meaning religion. So, the question to you is why are you in a religion and claiming to be following the pattern of the Israelites and early Christians whom, by the way were Hebrews and gentiles(limited invites) who never forgot that Christianity was a Hebrew directive.
 3- From Mathew to Revelation, the bible speaks of Jesus Witnesses not Jehovah’s witnesses. Again, JW’s still got it wrong, yet you claim to be God’s representative on earth.
 4-Examining the book of Revelation 20:12 – 15 seems to me the living and the dead ,great and small will be judged according to their deeds not according to established organizations or religions. So, where did you get the idea that humanity will survive Armageddon only if we converted to Watchtower ORG?
 5-Seems to me the bible speaks of tribes and nations, hebrews and gentiles, I have never come across where is speaks of the JW ORG as mankind’s savior. Silly me, I thought that was Jesus role!!!

on that note, Jehovas Witnesses are a CULT, that can not even be established by scripture.
It is funny how for the first time Jehova introduced himself to Moses, he actually qualified himself to Moses saying” I m the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob” Jehova offers a link that Moses could identify with.
 Jesus too, proves his lean-age in Mathew 1 and Luke. Yet, Jehovas witnesses fail to prove to the world that they are sent by God. God qualifies himself and yet JW.ORG fails to establish it’s link to God.

In fact the only link I find in the scriptures that establishes JW.ORG is at 1jon4:1-5 2jon1:7-10
 these 2 texts describe a group of people who go around teaching that Jesus did not come in the flash but came invisibly, and was not seen(1914). If you examine verses 10, a warning is given “do not let these people into your house” . In fact these text establish JW’S AS THE ANTI-CHRIST and deceivers originating from the world.

So, yes again. JW.ORG is a CULT!!!
Another thing that gets to me about JW’s is how they hide behind imperfection. Heres a question for you DefenceForThewitness, if perfection and imperfection were such a significant factor, how come perfect angels actually turned bad and corrupted humans in Gen 6? Let me answer it for you. Freewill.
 We chose to be good or bad, and the JW ORGANIZATION chooses to do bad, in the name of theocratic warfare. That sounds like cult tactics to me.

Reply
 
 

 Victor says:

 June 15, 2016 at 1:00 am
 

Witness…
“Yet, Jehovah commands his people to be in an organized religion and indicates that there is only one such religion that is approved by Him.”
Where the hell is this command??? In the Revelation the righteous are seen to come from every nation, tribe, people and language, not from a specific place or organization.
Please, think about it…
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php
“I believe the JW’s are “less bad” than any other Bible-based religious organization”
“Would you drink a glass of water containing only a drop of poison?”
Watchtower uses this illustration when speak of other religions.
 Why do you apply a different standard to Witnesses?

Reply
 

 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 15, 2016 at 7:52 pm
 

Regarding the need for belonging to an organized religion, I refer you to the following. It’s just easier than paraphrising it with a few Scriptural references. I know you don’t agree with it, but I do:
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201209/do-you-need-organized-religion/#?insight%5Bsearch_id%5D=9da4716f-d44e-43f5-af46-c462d4c5741c&insight%5Bsearch_result_index%5D=0
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/organized-religion/#?insight%5Bsearch_id%5D=9da4716f-d44e-43f5-af46-c462d4c5741c&insight%5Bsearch_result_index%5D=2
Regarding the “less bad” bit, I’ve been around long enough and am experienced enough (age 65 with more letters after my name than in it…and it’s an 11-letter name) that NO human organization is anywhere close to perfect. I do not buy into all the PR the organization puts out and generally understand what they have done, are doing and most likely will do. I’m OK with all of it.
It is the “least worst” Bible-based organization that tries to work according to the principles of the first century Christians. I believe they have far more doctrinal points right than “questionable”, including the reasonable (to me) explanation of why the name of Jehovah is seen in the New Testiment (see appendix A5 of the “gray Bible” for their explanation, which is supported by various not-JW scholors).
Buy the ticket – take the ride. I’m comfortable “on the inside” and am not going anywhere, although I’m oft been known to “push the envelope” and read whatever I like. Telling me not to read something is the surest way to get me to do it.
I can understand, even if not agree with, most of the points made on this site. If a person is looking for “reasons” to get out or stay out, such can be found. Faith is not the possession of all men.
I believe the JW translation and interpretation of the Bible is the most accurate in current existence, even if they don’t live up to all of it all of the time.
So, yes, given the Biblical admonition to be part of an organized Bible-based religion, I’ll chose this “least worse” one.
BTW – I only hope Jehovah “grades on a curve”, or I’m screwed!! And I’m not just talking about skulking around on “the bad side of town” here. 😀
Reply
 
 

 WitnessForTheDefense says:

 June 16, 2016 at 1:25 am
 

The Bible says to “gather yourselves together” and do things “decently and by arrangement”. That sounds like an organization to me. Also, the Rev “coming from every”, etc, etc indicates coming INTO Jehovah’s organization, not going OUT FROM it.
Given the Biblical mandate for an organization, I find no other Bible-based organization that has a better handle on Biblical doctrine than the JW’s, even with their flaws.
I’ve seen the explanations given for 607, 1914, the NGO and they all seem reasonable enough for me. The fact that the various predictions of “the end” didn’t pan out are due to typical human failings. As to the pedo situation, that is regrettable, but I can understand how they would want to handle it the way they did.
I don’t see enough to make me want to leave and, besides, to what organization would I then go that upholds ALL bible principles any better? I’m OK with this “least worst” organization, understanding that the PR they put out, like any other organization, is always accentuating the positives while de-emphasizing the negatives.
Reply
 

 Victor says:

 June 16, 2016 at 4:28 am
 

“Also, the Rev “coming from every”, etc, etc indicates coming INTO Jehovah’s organization, not going OUT FROM it.”
Where does the Bible say that?? INTO?? Where does the word “organization” appear in the Bible?
“I find no other Bible-based organization that has a better handle on Biblical doctrine”
Handle on Biblical Doctrine??? The ever-changing JW doctrines??? What it was “truth” 10 years ago now no longer is “truth”. I would not call this “handle on biblical doctrine”.
I respect your position to believe what you want. But you can’t call this “truth” (truth doesn’t change), but “an interpretation i like”, like any other religion do.

 
 

 olderandwiser says:

 June 16, 2016 at 9:19 am
 

This forum must be an easy way for you to get your “time” in…I have examined every single doctrine the Society has produced in my over 60 years since I was baptized and almost every one conflicts with the simple and open teachings of Jesus – that of the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man. The man Rutherford adopted the 144,000 doctrine from another contemporary religion and ran with it until he ran into too many people coming into the organization so he then came up with the “other sheep” doctrine for some place to put them hence the doctrine of an earthly resurrection on a paradise earth…and the rest is history. Jesus never mentioned any of this, only the heavenly hope for ALL who so choose to worship the heavenly Father. This number is unlimited. By the way fallingangel75 this invitation is open to you and everyone who is reading this. I suggest everyone research these points themselves. Also Witness-For-the-Defense if you really are interested in truth, you will find that the first century organization is a myth that the WT has twisted scripture to bolster their position.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 Vinitha says:

 June 13, 2016 at 4:26 pm
 

All of us who have been in and out of JWs know how hard it is to get off this organization. Contrary to what the organization claims we are a living proof providing information to people trying to escape JWs mind control and indoctrination. It is scary and delusional in the beginning but understanding the B.I.T.E. model of cults will help you escape JW camp and also lookup to the experience of JW survivors. The activists here are doing wonderful job helping detox the JW indoctrination. Thanks toJWSurvey team.
Reply
 
 


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NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
avatar 

Posted on June 11, 2016

resign-jw3
JW.ORG Portrays a Resigning Witness – A man now wearing street clothes

The FAQ section on JW.org has added a new featured post: “Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?” In this NEW article dated June 9th 2016, the Watchtower gives their official explanation of how to handle matters when a person no longer wants to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

It is, in my opinion, one of the most calculated, misleading and dishonest articles recently released on their website. The level of deliberate deceit on display is both appalling and astonishing.
Follow along with me as I examine this FAQ article section-by-section, explaining in detail how it is both deceptive and misleading!
Lies of Omission
resign-jw1
JW.ORG Asks: Can you Resign?

The FAQ presents itself as answering two questions. The first is:


Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
It clearly targets members of both the public and the media, not rank-and-file Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW’s), and describes what happens when members leave the religion. The actual members of the organization already know what happens when they resign from the faith. For instance, this summer, JW’s are subjected to an extended campaign of shunning training and loyalty indoctrination.
It is vital to keep the following fact in mind. This FAQ is intended for someone who does not know the details about Watchtower’s policies. Therefore, the printed words are just as important as the words omitted or danced around.
The FAQ responds to the question as follows. The first part says:

Yes. A person can resign from our organization in two ways:
By formal request. Either orally or in writing, a person can state his decision that he no longer wants to be known as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
 By action. A person can take an action that places him outside our worldwide brotherhood. (1 Peter 5:9) For example, he might join another religion and make known his intention to remain part of it.—1 John 2:19.

And…what happens next?
What happens when someone does this?
Hello?
FAQ?
What happens?
Silence.
This part of the FAQ says nothing whatsoever about the implications for a person undertaking the above steps. It makes no mention at all of what the penalty would be.
Why is that important?
It’s a deliberate lie of omission.
Wikipedia defines a lie of omission as:

Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions.
What important fact has been left out? What misconception might this article deliberately be hoping to instill in a reader?
Well, if you were reading this FAQ with no deeper knowledge of Jehovah’s Witnesses (which is the prime and deliberate audience for a write-up such as this) you might well walk away with the impression that such a person can carry on their life without any real interruption.
You would have no idea that the Witness family and friends of this person were now required to completely shun such an individual. Watchtower even recently went so far as to instruct parents to throw mature children out of the family home should one become disfellowshipped, and to not even answer the phone when they call. Disfellowshipping is an involuntary removal due to perceived “sin”, but Watchtower commands Witnesses to treat disassociated, or resigned ones, ones in an identical manner to disfellowshipped ones. See Watchtower Study edition Feb 2011 article Do You Hate Lawlessness. Below are two relevant paragraphs:

15 Do we share Jesus’ view of those who have become set in their lawless course? We need to give thought to these questions: ‘Would I choose to associate regularly with someone who has been disfellowshipped or who has disassociated himself from the Christian congregation? What if that one is a close relative who no longer lives at home?’ Such a situation can be a real test of our love of righteousness and of our loyalty to God.
18 If you face a similar situation, please remember that Jehovah sympathizes with you. By cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome. However, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her. Your loyalty to Jehovah may increase the likelihood that the disciplined one will repent and return to Jehovah.
Clearly, there is a lie of omission, designed to craft a misleading impression in the minds of the general public, as well as any interested media organizations.
But it gets worse!
The next part of the FAQ contains, not only an attempt to casually hide an embarrassing truth with sleight of hand, but an outright lie.
Misleading or Dissembling Lies
Wikipedia defines a misleading or dissembling lie as:

A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but still retains the purpose of getting someone to believe in an untruth.
The next question in the FAQ is:

What if a person no longer preaches or attends your meetings? Do you view that person as having resigned?
Now, in last years Australian Royal Commission hearings, where the Child Abuse policies of Jehovah’s Witnesses came under devastating scrutiny, this issue arose during the questioning of Governing Body Member Geoffrey Jackson by Senior Council for the Commission Angus Stewart.
It was put to Jackson that if a survivor of child abuse felt so let down by the Organization’s discredited policies (see the full damning report here) that they wished to leave the religion, they had no way of doing so without being shunned by their family. Remember, the two official options for leaving discussed in the FAQ both result in shunning.
What followed was a painful display of Jackson blatantly trying to misdirect the Royal Commission. He implied that someone who wanted to leave could simply stop attending meetings and it would be fine. He gave the impression that they would be viewed as having left or faded, and there would be no shunning.
Angus Stewart, who had clearly done his research into Watchtower’s policies, stood his ground on this point, and using various scenarios he demonstrated that Watchtower viewed a person who simply stopped attending meetings, but did not “disassociate” using the two above methods, as still a Witness, and thus subject to Watchtower’s rules and discipline. If such a person was caught violating any of their vast and controlling web of laws, they would be disfellowshipped or considered disassociated, and then shunned.
Watch the full video footage below and decide for yourself the impression that Jackson is trying to give on this issue prior to being cross-examined by Stewart.


Now, does the FAQ back up what Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson initially claimed under oath, before he started wriggling under cross-examination? Or does it back up Senior Council for the Royal Commission Angus Stewart?

What if a person no longer preaches or attends your meetings? Do you view that person as having resigned?
In answer to this, this FAQ states (bold is mine)

No, we do not. Resigning, or disassociating oneself, is different from becoming weak in faith.
This FAQ backs Stewart, not the Governing Body member who was giving testimony under oath. Was Jackson mistaken, misdirecting, incompetent or lying?
I will leave that to you.
The FAQ answer continues:

Often, those who for a time slow down or stop in their worship have not abandoned their faith but are suffering from discouragement. Rather than shunning such ones, we try to give them consolation and support. (1 Thessalonians 5:14; Jude 22) If the person wants help, congregation elders take the lead in providing spiritual assistance.—Galatians 6:1; 1 Peter 5:1-3.
Hmm.
Did you spot it?
Reading through quickly, you might have missed it. (bold is mine)

Often, those who for a time slow down or stop in their worship have not abandoned their faith but are suffering from discouragement. Rather than shunning such ones, we try to give them consolation and support. (1 Thessalonians 5:14; Jude 22) If the person wants help, congregation elders take the lead in providing spiritual assistance.—Galatians 6:1; 1 Peter 5:1-3.
See how carefully they slipped that in? You might have missed it if you were just scanning through. Additionally, the context is unclear about how shunning is to be interpreted in this text. If someone told me that Witnesses shun members that leave their faith, and then I came to this FAQ, I could easily interpret that sentence as meaning “we don’t shun such ones.”
Remember, there is no mention in the first part of the FAQ that disassociation involves shunning. A person without any knowledge of Witness doctrine, could come away thinking that there was no shunning for the disassociated ones, and possibly no shunning at all.
Now, there IS a hypertext link on the word “shunning.” This takes you to another FAQ here.
More Lies of Omission and Misdirection
Screenshot 2016-06-11 18.07.58
JW.ORG Addresses Shunning – or do they?

You have to notice the hyperlink and click on it to get this extra detail; the reader has to take additional time and effort to get this information. Even a quick scan of the article may not reveal it. But let’s click on it and examine the second FAQ on shunning.

I am going to reproduce the entire second FAQ on shunning below:

Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.
We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”—1 Corinthians 5:13.
What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.
Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again.
However, the elders are not authorized to coerce or pressure someone to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each person makes his own choice regarding religion. (Joshua 24:15) We believe that those who worship God must do so willingly, from the heart.—Psalm 110:3; Matthew 22:37.
What’s the first thing you notice? The article on shunning admits that it happens, but only in the context of disfellowshipping.  There is no mention that a disassociated one will be shunned.
Thus, a person, with no prior knowledge of the Witnesses that reads the first FAQ, and follows the reference to the second, will still have no information telling them that a disassociated one will be shunned.
Again, this is a deliberate lie of omission. Watchtower is trying to craft the impression that people are free to leave the religion of their own accord, with no penalty when the exact opposite is true.
What else do you notice? A person reading this will be thinking, “What if a family member is disfellowshipped?”
What scenario does the FAQ present?

What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.
Again, this is a lie of omission, and of misdirection. This scenario only holds true if the father is living at home with his wife or children. If the children grow and leave the family home, or the wife separates from her husband and takes her children with her they are then indeed required to shun him as if he was dead. If children are living outside the home and are disfellowshipped, siblings and parents are required to shun them as if they were dead. And what holds for the disfellowshipped holds for disassociated. By cherry-picking its scenario, and limiting disclosure of information, Watchtower has carefully presented a sanitized version of its shunning policy that simply is not true.
But worst of all is the way that both the first and second FAQ ends; we run crunching into what is nothing less than a barefaced lie.
Barefaced Lies
Wikipedia defines a barefaced lie as

A barefaced (or bald-faced) lie is one that is obviously a lie to those hearing it.
Both FAQ’s end with the following paragraph.

However, the elders are not authorized to coerce or pressure someone to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each person makes his own choice regarding religion. (Joshua 24:15) We believe that those who worship God must do so willingly, from the heart.—Psalm 110:3; Matthew 22:37.
There is no pressure.
Yes, if the person no longer wishes to remain one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they will never see their friends or family again.
But there is no pressure, you see.
The elders sit there pointing full loaded shun-guns at the individual, ready to fire if they decide to leave.
But there is no coercion. No pressure. We believe you must serve God willingly. It’s just that if you don’t choose to stay, your family and friends will never be allowed to see you again.
Dear JW.org: I think you need to look up the definition of the words pressure and coercion. I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.

pressure |ˈprɛʃə| noun [ mass noun ] 2 the use of persuasion or intimidation to make someone do something:backbenchers put pressure on the government to provide safeguards | [ count noun ] :  the many pressures on girls to worry about their looks.
coercion |kəʊˈəːʃ(ə)n| noun [ mass noun ] the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats: it wasn’t slavery because no coercion was used.
Even Watchtower’s own literature and videos state that a big part of the reason for shunning is to cause such deep emotional trauma to the person who left that they feel obligated to return to the organization.
See, for example, the video (below) that will be played to all of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide this year. What how the shunned person admits that the emotional pressure from being cut off from her family was part of what brought her back.


Also, notice this paragraph from the June 2013 Study Edition of the Watchtower which explicitly acknowledges that emotional blackmail is a key part of the shunning process.

17 Disfellowshipping is another type of discipline from Jehovah. It protects the congregation from a bad influence and can play a role in the sinner’s recovery. (1 Cor. 5:6, 7, 11) Robert was disfellowshipped for nearly 16 years, during which time his parents and siblings firmly and loyally applied the direction in God’s Word to quit mixing in company with wrongdoers, not even greeting such ones. Robert has been reinstated for some years now and is progressing well spiritually. When asked what moved him to return to Jehovah and His people after such a long time, he replied that the stand that his family took affected him. “Had my family associated with me even a little, say to check up on me, that small dose of association would have satisfied me and likely not allowed my desire for association to be a motivating factor to return to God.”
Or this paragraph from the Feb 2016 Study Edition of the Watchtower magazine, which not only proudly presents such emotional blackmail as a positive thing, but even blames the shunning victim for it.

A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5:11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,” Anne wrote.—Jas. 4:8.
So, for Watchtower to blatantly instruct its followers to engage in traumatizing emotional blackmail of those who leave, whilst simultaneously having the gall to state in its FAQ… (bold is mine)

However, the elders are not authorized to coerce or pressure someone to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each person makes his own choice regarding religion. (Joshua 24:15) We believe that those who worship God must do so willingly, from the heart.—Psalm 110:3; Matthew 22:37.
…is nothing less than a bare-faced lie.
A direct, blatant, calculated lie, and one that anyone with any knowledge of its doctrines and teachings can easily spot it as such.
I cannot recall the last time I saw posted on their website such a blatant, disgusting and calculated attempt to mislead the general public and the media as to its practice of disassociation, and its use of shunning to place coercion upon those who leave.
The Governing Body should be ashamed.
I call upon Watchtower to either amend the FAQ to reflect the reality of their polices, or to remove the FAQ altogether.
One last point: If shunning is Scriptural and the Governing Body is so proud to carry out God’s perceived command, why are they so desperate to lie about it and hide it from the public?
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175 Responses to NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

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 Christopher says:

 June 13, 2016 at 4:28 pm
 

Well put CF this is a classic cult move to try and mislead a curious public. I really would like to see a expose on this by a major news network, maybe if they finally disclose their list of pedophile cover ups it will happen, It will take something like that to really wake people up.
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 ligniappe says:

 June 13, 2016 at 9:26 pm
 

Great article CF, most of my family will not shun since my wife and I faded which we are grateful for. I was, as was my wife, baptised pre 1973 and the baptism question simply asked do we dedicate ourselves to Jehovah? Yes, nothing untoward there and the questions are here
 *** Watchtower 1970 May 15 p.309 Your Conscience Toward Jehovah ***
 20 Two questions which do search out the heart and mind of each candidate are: (1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus? (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God’s Word as his holy spirit makes it plain? Those who answer “yes” audibly to these two questions so that the other persons present may witness their affirmation of dedication may appropriately be baptized.

Had I realised at the time that the questions were subtly changed in 1984, we would have advised our sons and daughters not to go ahead with the questions after that date.
To the best of my knowledge unless people have signed some formal agreement with Watchtower, pre 1984 we are not members of it. We are, as one political leader once described his relationship with christians, as being “a fellow traveller” with them, but not bound by them.
Most, on this site seem to share common views but not subservient to WT.
In addition the phrase “God’s Organisation” is tantamount to a blasphemy. God does not produce wildly imperfect people abusing others through “his organisation.”
Jehovah cannot produce imperfect orgs, it is impossible. That takes a bit of thinking to understand. It involves moral, legal and a scriptural understanding
 If he did, then he would be responsible for what is happening.
 But this org is far removed from HIM, and what they do is on their own heads.
 There is legal principle for my comments but far to lengthy to elaborate here.
 The only other thing that I want to say is that nothing in the scriptures ask for loyalty and obedience to some modern day, man made, creation. That is bad doctrine and thus in my view apostasy on the part of the GB, since they, by Geoff Jackson’s admission on the ARC, edit and approve for doctrine, all published material. Note that Jackson never said the GB does any or even a little of the writing?

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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 14, 2016 at 4:03 am
 

Thanks ligniappe! Once again I find your comments spot on! This^^^
This is what I have said to my friends and family who know that I wish to leave, and sadly, none of them are hearing the distinction I am making about God vs the organization.
I am pointing out the same thing and saying ‘if this is God’s organization, and he is turning a blind eye to all that is being done wrong BY THE MEN WHO CLAIM TO BE HIS *ONLY* APPROVED REPRESENTATIVES on earth, then he is responsible.’
And, of all the people who cannot stomach the organization’s lies and deception and abuse, who consequently leave, what? He just set those people up for failure?
Really? What follows logically? That he would demand loyalty to a harmful organization that misrepresents him, or that it is not his ‘spirit-directed’ organization?
I remember the questions used to be different now that it has been pointed out. I remember the change as well, when it happened. I was baptized in the late ’80s.
It just never occurred to me that the organization had already been sanctioning and condoning such terrible things on a global scale even at that time, or that it would become what it is today. Or that we would all still be living in this system 25 years later.
I thought it was God’s organization approved by him and that it would protect us all. You well know that they position themselves as our ‘ark’ of salvation.
And there is the parallel drawn between his modern day people and the nation of Israel. Jehovah always had a chosen people dedicated to his name.
In modern times we are unified, identified, and guided by his organization. It doesn’t seem wrong at first.
It doesn’t seem harmful at first.
Until you see the sheer numbers of abuses carried out under the banner of that organization.
And even when you point to situations that were clearly mishandled where people who are earnestly trying to serve Jehovah are hurt by people who dishonestly claim to be serving Jehovah, I have found that mature ones and elders often claim that you simply don’t know all the details.
Um, really? That elder’s wife came to the Sunday meeting with a black eye and a fat lip with a cut on it.
She didn’t fall. She wasn’t in a car accident.
What else do I need to know?
Is there additional information that would convince me that she earned that beating and that’s why he’s keeping his privileges?
Why was she reproved and he’s untouched? Even if she committed adultery (which I really don’t know, and it’s actually not my business), do we say, yes, that would make any man angry enough to hit a woman – he gets a pass, but she must be punished?
How is that ok? And that’s just a guess. Maybe she just talked back to him and he didn’t like it. I’ll never know.
Over the years, whenever I bring up incidents of injustice, first I am asked if I was there and have firsthand knowledge, so it is implied that I don’t have all the facts, and if I did, I would likely decide the action taken was justified.
Perhaps it is only perceived injustice. Alright, I suppose sometimes domestic violence is ok. What was I thinking?
And in any case it is not my place to question God’s spirit appointed representatives.
And, finally I’ve been encouraged to consider the Hebrew scriptures that contain myriad accounts of Jehovah’s servants doing bad to others who are also Jehovah’s servants – to the point of murder in some examples.
I’m sorry. I find no consolation in that.
Everyone keeps saying that I am blaming Jehovah. I am speaking against him and that I must not turn my back on Jehovah because I have been hurt by men and because I know of others who have.
Jehovah is not responsible, they tell me.
None of them can separate my statements of criticism for the organization. To them loyalty to Jehovah and loyalty to the organization are one and the same, and I am pretty certain that this convention program will only cement that loyalty.
Clearly from the commentary about it, that is what it has been designed to do.
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 14, 2016 at 8:10 pm
 

From the JW perspective God is the organization and the Organization is God.
WS
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 Marty Doc says:

 June 14, 2016 at 5:43 am
 

Every time I see a JW that I used to know, I always say “Hello” and try to start a conversation, even though they know me and that I’m disassociated almost 2 years now. I try to do this in public with a lot of people about who will see with their own eyes the shunning that takes place. I do this because I still love these people that I’ve known since 18 years old, now 43, and sincerely hope that the ridiculousness of the situation might make them wake up a wee bit……
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 M Saurus says:

 June 15, 2016 at 9:18 am
 

I do that too. But it seems that a lot of them see me and run, I guess deep down they know they should speak to me – so they don’t let themselves “run into” me in public. When I see them before they see me, I always say hello – some speak, some don’t.
I don’t do it because I love them – I do it to purposely put them right in the middle of an uncomfortable situation – one that they chose for themselves.
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 Sylviane Nuccio says:

 June 18, 2016 at 9:31 am
 

I like that.
At the moment, I don’t even know where my brother lives exactly, but I swear that if I ever ran into him in public, even though I do love him dearly, I would shout in public something like that..” This is my brother and he’s been shunning me for 10 years. He’s one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, please, beware when those people knock on your door.”
I’ve daydreamed that day many, many times. I hope one day it’s going to happen.
 My pain and my anger will all be in there.

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 Eyes opened says:

 June 14, 2016 at 8:20 am
 

Interesting how the wbts says if a man is disfellowshiped the religious ties with his family change…who says? Christ made him head of his family. If the wife is to obey God rather than men she would want to acknowledge her husband’s authority instead of following 7 imperfect, uninspired men who have no authority. They go where angels fear to tread. What God has yoked together let no man put apart…oops my bad, they think they are equal to God.
Regards
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 rob says:

 June 14, 2016 at 8:21 am
 

I completely agree that God would never chose an organized corporate religion made up of imperfect men to be His spokesperson on Earth.
In my opinion He doesn’t need any organization to carry out His will.
But it appears that some people need a visual man made organization to direct them, to tell them what they should and shouldn’t do and to give them a hierarchy and to give them power and a feeling of superiority over “worldly people”. Many of the witnesses I knew had kind of checked out of this system of things and everything was just a waiting game for the new system.
In the congregations they are somebodies, they are elders who get to make decisions and to be involved in judicial committees etc. The rank and file witnesses think that they are special, they are chosen by God to be in the new system, they are better than worldly people and they will be saved while everyone else will be destroyed.
In the actual world they are just ordinary everyday people.
But they also need a visual “Board of Directors” that they can idolize and who they are told are special men chosen by God, “the faithful and discreet slave”. The witnesses give these men their complete and utter trust. Why? Because they need to have this visual “god” someone who actually speaks to them and tells them how they should live and interestingly enough, when they are told to shun their children, they listen. They follow. They obey.
It appears to me that for some people to leave the witness religion would mean that they give up their “perceived special status”. They would be outside of that elite club of people that God has chosen to be in the new system.
Shunning their family or following man made rules is of no consequence because in their eyes being part of the social circle of the elite chosen ones is much more important.
Funny that Jesus chose to be with people of every sort and talked to sinners and loved the children and set the example. He did not want any glory or structure.
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 Eyes opened says:

 June 14, 2016 at 8:32 am
 

Agreed. Sounds just like the desire for the golden calf.
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 14, 2016 at 8:20 pm
 

Good points Rob. The R&F are told they are better than everyone in the world – “the desirable things of the nations” so to speak, and they believe it. When in reality they are inferior to the worldly people. Worldly people contribute to society, they engage in scientific research, social work, humanitarian efforts, etc. They don’t just a go around proclaiming a doomsday message, waiting for God to fix everything. You (referring to JWs) think the world is a bad place and has huge problems? Well then get off your asses and do something positive about it. After all if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
WS
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 SarahG says:

 June 17, 2016 at 6:24 pm
 

I agree with your comments mostly from what I’ve seen. The WTBTS appeals to the ego.
My problem is that I’ve always been sort of a black sheep Witness. I have been marked many times for this. Not for doing anything immoral, but for not abiding by the WTBTS policies.
The issue is, I did not know these policies before I got baptized, or I never would have gotten baptized. I was converted in the door to door witnessing and studied the Knowledge book. The depths and abuses of the WTBTS was covered over. For this reason I feel that I was converted in a fraudulent manner.
Even after I was baptized, I spent years under the delusion that I could take the good and leave the bad. That I could continue to follow my conscience and understanding of the Scriptures.
Every time someone would say that the WTBTS was as if Jesus himself was speaking or the elders were basically infallible, I would just lol to myself and think well that’s obviously untrue.
Or when it was said that you have to be a Witness to be saved, I would think to myself ‘isn’t that for God to judge?’
And I never flat refused to talk to disfellowshipped people, especially about Jehovah, because I never found anything Scriptually to support that.
However, it was not until recently, that I finally realized how destructive and abusive the WTBTS policies are. I finally realized that these policies are coming from the top down and I finally gave up my years of prayer and hope that they would change. I finally realized that I was met with severe hostility every time I tried to ask an elder or pioneer my questions. That there was no room for questioning, no room for disagreement on the Scriptures. As an elder angrily bellowed at me, “Do you think you know more than the Governing Body,” while simultaneously refusing to answer any of my scriptural questions.
I finally realized that these evils would never change. Because the WTBTS is not about love and devotion to God and fellowship in Christ. They are about control and domination, even of thoughts. The WTBTS is a cult. I have finally woken up and been willing to admit that to myself after years of questions and denial.
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 18, 2016 at 6:02 am
 

@SarahG
 It sounds like you always maintained a part of your free will and never fully gave it up to them. In that way you were able to see the inconsistencies over the years and finally awaken to the abuses.

In Combatting Cult Mind Control, Steve Hassan explains the difference between the cult self and the authentic self. Because you were converted in the door-to-door work, you had already developed your authentic self, but the organization tried to develop a cult self for you; it suppresses the authentic self. I was born-in, so my authentic self never was able to fully develop without the cult self surpressing it. But either way once we break free of a cult, there is always a period of self discovery, finding out who the authentic self is. I do think the period is a bit longer for born-ins. In the case of an adult convert it means rediscovering the authentic self who’s development was disrupted by the cult.
In your case, Sarah, it sounds like your authentic self was never fully suppressed. This helped you to see the inconsistencies and abuses. It may also help you recover more quickly from the cult’s influence. I definitely recommend the Hassan books – they are a great help.
WS
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 SarahG says:

 June 18, 2016 at 9:52 am
 

Thank you so much for your kind words!
I am actually pretty happy emotionally. Leaving doesn’t bother me because I realize that all my JW friends aren’t really my friends. They are only my friends and only love me as long as I think and act just like them and that is not real friendship or real love.
Now I must find Christ and faith again, separate from the absolute mind control of the WTBTS. I am excited to read the Bible and look for God with fresh new eyes and to develop my personal relationship with Him. I haven’t been this excited to read the Bible in years!
Most of all, I am glad for my 6 month old baby that I woke up finally just now. He helped me to wake up. The convention video on shunning, combined with my love for him, was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me.
I am sad for my 8 and 11 year old step-children that they have been indoctrinated since birth.
I want to send in my letter of disassociation, but I can’t for my husband and children’s sake. All of my husband’s and step-children’s family are JWs and I know that my disassociating will make things difficult for them. Hopefully I can be successful at simply fading. We’ll see.
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 Dwc says:

 June 18, 2016 at 2:35 pm
 

@SarahG,
I know exactly what you are going through as I’m going through it at this very moment.
What I plan to do, and it is working I might add, is use scriptures to my wife and children to help them see what it means to be a true balanced Christian. Not the dogmatic procedural Christian that the wtbts tells you to be.
1john 4:1, acts 17:10,11, Matt. 23:3 for starters… There are some very good things to which you were drawn. There are basic truths. And I am grateful to those sincere brothers whom I believe YHWH and Jesus used to help me and really help me reconcile my relationship with YHWH. But you also see like so many of us the lies, deception, policies & procedures… The utter crap of the cult tendencies.
There is only one mediator between me and YHWH, and that is Jesus. Not the “faithful and discreet slave” or GB. Just as Jesus is for everyone that has this faith. Again there are many agnostic or atheist so please forgive me if I offended any of you.
The best scripture I have used though is Matt. 18:20 as it shows that meeting in churches is completely unnecessary.
Ecclesia is a great word to look up.
I truly wish you all the best and will say a prayer for you and your family!

 
 

 chantal says:

 June 18, 2016 at 8:23 pm
 

@SarahG. Yes, i have been on Bible Studies, and the last one was so sugar coated, and the Bible Student, so the speak, was more informed on the Bible than me or the sister conducting, that I felt absolutely sick. If the unsuspecting “householder” had any idea of the harsh realities of the family cuts she would have to make to be a Witness she would run. Actually, I think that’s just what she did.

 
 
 

 chantal says:

 June 18, 2016 at 8:15 pm
 

@Winston, yes, to be born in,or more on point, Forced In, is so much harder to break break free of emotional chains. But even with the indoctrination from birth, I never fully believed it, never bought the lies, just on a cognitive dissonance level, only did it for my parents. But, oh, did the cult doctrine have its effect on my life.
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 5:47 am
 

Sadly, Chantal, when I was young I bought it hook, line, and sinker. My whole family was in it going back several generations (I had family members who were actually acquaintances of Russel). In this environment, I was not exposed to hardly any outside reasoning and was very sheltered. It wasn’t until I was an adult and I began to see the world as it is that I began to engage my powers of reason and to begin to see through the lies.
WS

 
 
 
 
 
 

 Big B says:

 June 14, 2016 at 10:33 am
 

@ rob:
“In the actual world they are just ordinary everyday people”.
Although agreeing 99% with your comments, I can only agree with the above quote to a certain extent. They have the right number of appendages physically, (legs, arms, ears, etc.) but ‘just ordinary everyday people’ not so much.
They look like ordinary people but they are members of a doomsday, take no prisoners, CULT. Their minds are warped, their very lives conditioned to obey their seven dwarf masters in Warwick. “They follow they obey”. Translates into song: “LISTEN, OBEY and be BLESSED” not mentioned is what happens to those who don’t follow that admonition; you are CURSED.
Uneducated for the most part, underpaid in non-professional jobs, inexperienced to what life truly has to offer they are or soon will be discouraged, disgruntled, disappointed, mendicant beggars, purveyors of a belief that isn’t true and that they won’t live to see.
 In other words, “they’re selling but no one is buying.”

Their shunning for disassociation practices is not the “disease” but just the rash that has manifested itself. The disease is a galloping ‘cancer’ that has eaten into the soul of this Orwellian distopia of an organization itself. The disease is HUBRIS, practiced non stop by the seven mental midgets that dare equate itself with God himself. What hubris!
Can anyone not see that God is abandoning this cult to the wolves of world opinion? Since joining the U.N. as a N.G.O. (Non Governmental Organization) for over 10 years, especially heinous after calling Christendom the Whore ‘Babylon the Great’ that supports the ‘Scarlet Colored Wild Beast, now look at what has happened since this revealing.
Child abuse cases (pedophilia) around the world with significant fines and payouts;
 Contributions shriveling up resorting to backdoor tithing;
 Baptisms down; membership leaving in droves; Memorial attendance down while partakers at the Memorial are increasing (over 500 for the past ten years). Overlapping Generations, No Armageddon, no paradise earth and no explanations given.

They are desperately trying to hold their membership in check but are and will fail miserably. The more they squeeze the more they crush the spirit of their flock. They will implode, its just a matter of time.
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 Markie says:

 June 14, 2016 at 1:26 pm
 

What a pedantic little post you have there. I would assume you must be highly educated but I would probably be wrong. May be an Associates in Arts degree in Advanced Window Washing? Or maybe you went all the way and got a PHD in Janitorial Services?
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 14, 2016 at 8:26 pm
 

Markie,
Keep in mind that you are an anomaly among the JWs in that you did go to college. Your situation is not the norm.
WS
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 Tara says:

 June 14, 2016 at 9:21 pm
 

I find your comment very offensive Markie. Many of the Witnesses do have cleaning businesses. They work hard for a living so they can support their families. I am on my own and suffered a breakdown because of my ex husband. I could no longer carry on in my field of work which I studied and went to college for. I found I could cope with doing small cleaning jobs. Now I have my own business and work damn hard. Shame on you for your arrogant attitude.
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 Sarah Mayfield says:

 June 14, 2016 at 11:30 pm
 

@Markie,
Was there really a need to insult this guy like that? He was simply stating his opinion. To be frank, I found his comments to be a helpful contribution as opposed to a spite-filled tongue lashing. Please show more respect.
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 bi says:

 June 15, 2016 at 7:49 am
 

@ Markie:
How much education I have is not the point Markie and you are wrong. You obviously have a problem. What is it? Have I offended you in anyway? Was I wrong in any of my assessments concerning the W.B.T.S.? If so address my remarks and I will either agree with you or choose to disagree with you.
Ad hominem attacks on me, whom you do not know, shows everyone on this site (by the measure of response to you) that you cannot answer or respond reasonably to my comments or opinions concerning the Watchtower.
Please do not disparage others who have had to make ends meet by taking on any work available (God bless them) including cleaning of homes or offices.
Personally speaking, being involved with this organization since 1957, most if not all of us followed the Watchtower prohibition towards higher education (of which I was one). However, many years latter, I decided to continue my education because time and circumstances allowed me to do so.
My points are clear; the W.T.B.T.S have hobbled their adherents (including myself) by their unwise, unscriptural doctrines and practices. Now they wish to punish those who leave on their own by shunning. So be it.
Oh, if you find my post to be pedantic, you can always skip it and move on.
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 M Saurus says:

 June 15, 2016 at 9:26 am
 

Markie – with that nasty post and your “holier than thou” attitude, you should stay in the org. You fit right in.
Why don’t you keep your disparaging comments inside your head where they can fester like a boil.
Reply
 

 Minion says:

 June 16, 2016 at 9:40 pm
 

Greetings to all:
@ ma rkie,
He’s a jw newbie, disturbed child or perhaps abused.
Stuck in the merry-go-round jwdrum dumb.
He’s good as dead.
Peace out,
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 Justin says:

 June 15, 2016 at 2:37 pm
 

~Markie
Rarely do I comment on these posts but your condescending and disrespectful attitude leaves a-lot to be desired.
I’m not sure what your problem is but I suggest you find a better outlet for your venom other than directing it at strangers. Who quite frankly have more educated opinions to offer with this ex-jw community, than you do.
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 QuietObserver says:

 June 18, 2016 at 6:20 am
 

I say…Markie is a troll. This is a perfect example of what a troll does. Snide sarcastic comments that offend and insult and then they disappear.
Reply
 

 Big B says:

 June 18, 2016 at 8:20 am
 

@ QuietObserver
Yes, I believe ‘Snarkie Markie’ is definitely a troll. If attention is what you crave then congratulations are in order for you’re receiving the desired effect.
Hopefully he/she will have satisfied their depraved, buried, sensual pleasure for some kind of attention by their ignorant, ‘holier than thou’ statements and have returned under his/her bridge to await the arrival of three unsuspecting Billy Goats. Good Luck with that TROLL.
Reply
 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 18, 2016 at 8:49 am
 

We have had this discussion (on whether Markie is a troll) before on other posts.
In general Markie does not seem to be a troll. He usually responds to your questions. In this case he has been so reproved by a number of commentors, no response may be the best option (or he is just offline).
Here’s what I know about Markie: He is male, possibly an elder, married, likes strong women, he went to college/university. Markie appears to be an active JW and does not believe they are a cult. He believes that people who blame the JWs for their problems are simply weak-minded and need to own up to their own failures. He does voice opinions that are critical of the GB, although it seems that he sees the problems as being able to be fixed from within. He does seem to be very sarcastic and anyone who posts regularly has gotten at least one “tongue lashing” from him, myself included. His comments are often snyde, demeaning, and even mean-spirited. But what would you expect from an active JW on an ex-JW site? He has regularly commented for the better part of a year or more. While I typically don’t agree with his opinions and often categorically disagree with his methods, he has a right to express his opinion, provided it is within the posting requirements of the site.
Based these facts he does not appear to be a troll.
WS
Reply
 

 Big B says:

 June 18, 2016 at 12:12 pm
 

@ Winston Smith
I personally try not to prejudge people however, I may be wrong, but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck…
Hopefully, for everyone posting information to share, snarkie, insulting, ad hominum attacks and like comments will be monitored in the future.

 
 

 Grace says:

 June 18, 2016 at 4:42 pm
 

Excellent analysis of Markie WS,
That’s why I don’t buy into his baits. He reminds me a little of my brother-in-law. If you said the sky was blue, he would argue that it was green. You know the type. He’s probably having a boring day & needs to poke at someone so he goes on line then goes to the meetings armed up with apostate arguments to have with bros & sis in the congregation he’s in.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 5:55 am
 

@Big B,
 Just to clarify, my intent was to show that Markie does not fit the definition of an internet troll. I certainly don’t agree with the ad hominem attacks he made on you.

With much of what Markie posts, my feeling is in line with the words of Evelyn Beatrice Hall: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
WS

 
 
 
 
 

 John ship says:

 June 14, 2016 at 1:45 pm
 

I agree hopfully you are right about their collapse…the GB are ruuning scared thats for sure .they dont care who is damaged by their flawed policies..
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 Ejecting to Sanity says:

 June 16, 2016 at 8:31 pm
 

You are right on.
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 Eyes opened says:

 June 14, 2016 at 11:21 am
 

Hi Big B
 I seriously doubt Jehovah was ever with this organization. At one time I felt they were trying harder to follow the scriptures. But if we look further back than 10 years, back to the1930’s, Rutherford was trying to crawl into bed with Hitler. There is no doubt Rutherford was committing spiritual adultery. In the ’90’s (95/98) an Awake magazine addressed the letter Rutherford wrote Hitler and admitted that persecution increased after that. The letter is printed in the 1934 yearbook. Pretty interesting.

Regards
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 Big B says:

 June 14, 2016 at 11:53 am
 

@ Eyes opened:
I concur. To think that Jehovah God would have appointed this or any other group of Millerites to be his “faithful and discrete slave” is ludicrous in the extreme. Notice that even the WTBTS has discredited their founder and his followers in the Watchtower study article of July 15, 2013.
It’s only in 1919 when Jehovah chose this as His Organization after J.F. Rutherford ignored the written will of C.T. Russell in what amounts to a hostile take over. Can you imagine an all knowing God backing an organization run by a drunken bully? Although, having no trouble sending others door to door in an effort to warn the world about the impending doom of Armageddon, did not himself knock on one door.
A glance at the doctrines of the Watchtower during this period of Russell and Rutherford are certainly noteworthy and have absolutely no credit among serious Bible scholars but amount to charlatanism at worst and delusional fantasy at best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/hitler-nazi.php
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 Holy Connoli says:

 June 14, 2016 at 1:14 pm
 

Big B? How do we know that Rutherford never went door-door? I doubt that he did but how do we know it?
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 Big B says:

 June 15, 2016 at 8:36 am
 

@ Holy Connoli;
This is what I was able to find for you and others that are interested.
As a narcissist, he was a man who considered himself “above his OWN law” when he told people they could only gain salvation by preaching from door to door when he never did it himself as leader of the WTS.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/154191/rutherford-exposed-story-berta-bonnie-redux?size=10&page=1
Although mentioned on this post, I believe this information can be found in one of Raymond Franz books according to Wikipedia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford
Former Jehovah’s Witness and former Governing Body member Raymond Franz claimed there was no evidence Rutherford engaged in door-to-door ministry despite his assertion that it was a requirement and sacred duty of all Witnesses. Franz claimed to have heard Rutherford’s associates say his responsibilities as president “do not permit his engaging in this activity”.[197]
[197] Raymond Franz, In Search of Christian Freedom, Commentary Press, 2007, pp. 191–192
Now if you wish to say that J.F. Rutherford went to every door “in spirit” while having the Witness play his message on portable phonographs, then all bets are off. 🙂
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 Urim says:

 June 14, 2016 at 11:50 am
 

I really think these two articles can be very helpfull. They show even to publishers that is not aware of the details about the shunning rules that the organization is not honest about what they tell about themselves. I’m planning to use these two articles to make people that I love to meditate before the Convention. The good thing also is that is all current and oficial information. It will not raise any awareness about apostasy. Thank you watchtower.
Reply
 
 

 Harry Cadanza says:

 June 14, 2016 at 3:49 pm
 

I think I am being shunned in a different kind of a way by my JW family. They disapprove of me because I live with my brother who acts very paranoid because he has dementia. My JW family got tired of hearing me talk about my problems so they sent me a text message stating that as a family they came to a consensus that I am only to talk about spiritual things. I’m only permitted to talk about things I read in the JW literature or from their jw.org website or from talks I may hear during the meetings or during the assemblies. I’m not permitted to talk about anything else. This has been going on for a year and three months now. We are strangers now. The wierd thing is I feel really, really good. I’m free. I love it. They did me a huge favor. That religion made me feel like I was going insane. I’m glad I’m out. I’m trying to say the way they treated me made it easy to break free. I really am happier now.
Reply
 

 Sarah says:

 June 15, 2016 at 11:09 am
 

I am so sorry, Harry, and hope that you have some help with your brother. I can’t believe your family’s attitude is really Christian. Do they not help you with the problems? What happened to being patient and kind?
 Take care.

Reply
 

 Harry Cadanza says:

 June 15, 2016 at 4:42 pm
 

Thank you very much Sarah, I remember around the same time they told me to only talk about spiritual things that come from the society another thing happened. I remember my niece told me she used to go out in service regularly with a sister who had personal problems. Later my niece refused to work with her. One morning they were in a van as a group working together in field service. Another sister told the girl who had the personal problems why my niece refused to work with her. When they returned from the door after they got back into the van the sister with the personal problems started crying. She was sobbing. Her fealings were hurt. They had my niece sit at the front of the van because she didn’t want to work with the sister who had the personal problems. While the sister was at a door with her new partner the partner told her my niece didn’t want to work with her. Are all Jehovah’s Witnesses this skin deep and shallow?
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 16, 2016 at 1:13 am
 

@ Harry, Wow. I’m sorry for your experience with your family and stories like the one about the sister with the personal problems.
That’s terrible. I hope you find emotional support and practical help somewhere.
I’m not discounting your disappointment, but I also want to say, no. All witnesses are not skin deep and shallow.
I’ve been the recipient of loving care and concern when I had nothing to offer in return, and I have given it. Many times over.
But I have definitely seen from comments on this site that people’s experiences as part of the organization vary widely.
I look at it this way. In my secular career, I’ve worked for several corporations and franchises. I even owned a franchise for a few years.
Franchises and corporations have brand standards. However, on an individual level a single location often takes on the characteristics of the owners and management.
Typically individual employees will also follow the lead of those in charge. Employees who are slack in an efficient environment will leave or be fired.
Employees who are efficient in a poorly run establishment will often leave from frustration or be dismissed because they are showing up the others’ mistakes.
Watchtower is a corporation. It’s a brand. Congregations often take on character traits of local leadership.
I have belonged to very loving, nurturing congregations that really looked out for orphans and widows.
By contrast, I have belonged to a congregation where 70% of the publishers were minorities, but 100% of the elders, ministerial servants, and brothers carrying mikes, reading publicly etc. were white, because leadership was racist and unapologetic about it. In the 2000’s!
Did publishers know this was wrong? Of course! But if you aren’t in charge of making decisions, how do you change it?
The structure and hierarchy like many corporate entities and governments does not support change that comes from the bottom up, and is not necessarily interested in the best interests of those at the base of their organization.
And like any other brand with many locations there’s going to be lots of good and bad and in-between.
Also:
Say there’s a local fast food place, burger joint or sub shop. Some people swear by the brand because in their neighborhood, service is always good, food quality, speed, everything is positive most of the time.
Meanwhile, somewhere else, service is slow, food is cold and tasteless, employees are rude and disgruntled. That brand is tarnished locally. People only go there as a last resort.
Often they are restricted geographically and by transportation.
Congregations can be that way. Some really are striving to do things in a loving way. Others are extremely selfish or careless or controlling and harsh.
People tend to take on those qualities and faults or leave. Either physically leave for another congregation or stop attending.
This is not a defense of the organization. In fact, I feel like it is evidence of the problem. Evidence that they are not God’s one true channel.
But I do believe that many earnest individuals are a part of the organization. They are trying to do the right thing and help others. They believe they are saving lives.
I will never make or agree with some of the comments that say all of the witnesses are anything – positive or negative.
They are not all kind. They are not all honest and hard-working. But they are also not all judgmental or backwards and uneducated like I keep reading in comments.
I keep thinking: where are all of the people making these comments living that they have only had bad experiences and never good ones?
Personally, in my lifetime, I have had lots of really positive experiences and lots of extremely negative ones as well.
Mostly it’s been a wash.
I’m here, now, because I did reach my own personal tipping point that prompted me to withdraw from the organization, but it still doesn’t negate or erase my positive experiences and memories.
Witnesses as a class of people aren’t all good or all bad. I would never say that about them any more than I would say that about any specific race, ethnic group or socioeconomic classification.
Sweeping generalizations and wholesale prejudices are part of what’s wrong with the world today.
Ok. Getting off my soap box, now. 🙂
Reply
 
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 18, 2016 at 11:23 am
 

Harry,
 Witnesses are subject to the same spectrum of personalities as the rest of humankind. So, the quick answer is: No, not all Witnesses are that shallow.

However, you mentioned another factor in your previous post that must be included here. You said your family got tired of listening to your problems and only wanted to hear about spiritual things. I encountered a similar situation when I was beginning to wake up and had just stepped down from my appointment as an elder. In beginning to explain my reasons to a Witness friend, he cut me off and said he would only listen if my statement was ‘encouraging’.
I can’t put into words how shocked I was! He wasn’t interested in reality or a conversation about my serious concerns, he just wanted to be encouraged. If you look up any Watchtower article on negative thinking, you’ll see exactly why Witnesses act this way.
If we revisit your question, now we can say: Yes, all Witnesses are TRAINED to be shallow.
Side point: I’m truly glad you’ve broken free and are happier now.
Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 18, 2016 at 11:46 am
 

Telescopium,
 Like you, I am a former elder and resigned for reasons of conscience. You ever notice that the only way a JW man receives any validation is in working as or reaching out to work as an elder or servant? Not everyone is cut out for such responsibility and hence you end up with some very unhappy and in many cases very unqualified men in these leadership roles.

WS

 
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 18, 2016 at 1:09 pm
 

Winston,
 Completely agree. If I remember correctly, Anthony Morris III made some rather pointed comments about brothers in their 20’s who were not ministerial servants. Kind of sad, really, trying to shoehorn every male into a mold that they might not ever fit into.

Winston, I’d like to say I really appreciate all your comments on this site. You’re a voice of reason. Thanks.

 
 

 Harry Cadanza says:

 June 18, 2016 at 4:46 pm
 

Telescopium, I’m glad you remembered If you look up any Watchtower article on negative thinking, you’ll see exactly why Witnesses act this way. I didn’t think of that. That helps me. The other comments actually help a lot also. Thank you. I don’t feel as bad about it now. I never realized or understood the effects from brain washing.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:00 am
 

@Telescopium,
 Thank you for your kind words. I believe the ability to use reason & logic is one of the greatest gifts the Creator has given humanity.

WS

 
 
 
 
 
 

 Randy Galbraith says:

 June 15, 2016 at 6:45 am
 

Hi WitnessForTheDefense,
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” – Romans 10:13 Hmm… interesting point, yes. I’ve read the 1984 NWT twice through. I am now reading the NIV but have only gotten to Numbers.
Paul here does seem to be quoting Joel 2:32. While the original of Joel would have had the divine name, it is likely Paul would have read Joel from a Greek translation that replaced “Jehovah” with “Lord”. Up in verse 9 Paul says Jesus is _Lord_ and afterwards says _God_ raised him from the dead. So what do we make of all this?
Jehovah’s Witnesses, as a religion, are restorative. They imagine that they are restoring Christianity to some 1st century ideal that was lost. Likewise, Jesus, seems to set out to restore Judaism back to some ideal. Often contrasting the current “tradition” with an ideal form revealed in scripture.
Yet the OT world is one of a religious nation state. The text of the OT seems to have been split, developed and been re-merged and redacted to the final form we see today around the period just after the return from exile. For example, “God” appears from Genesis 1:1 to 2:3. When the story is retold at 2:4, “Jehovah” is introduced. The rivalry between Jehovah and other gods, especially Baal appears repeatedly in the narrative.
The NT world is ruled by the Romans and culturally influenced by the Greeks. Plato’s mention of shadows on the cave walls, seems to be echoed by Paul (Hebrews 10:1). More refined ideas about mind and spirit have cultural currency. Yet, Christians, would not hold state power until Emperor Constantine. The center piece of Christianity, for NT writers, is simply not “Jehovah”, who they wouldn’t know by name, but “Jesus.” Yet at the same time, NT writers, like Paul, quoted the OT, to establish their ideas about Jesus as Son of God, Son of Man, etc. The lack of refined harmony between the OT and NT, for most Christians, seems to be handled mostly in terms of simply focusing on the NT. But Jehovah’s Witnesses seems to have fallen into the trap, tied to the divine name itself. A bold use of “Jehovah” means they are always in a mode of trying to balance focus between “Jehovah” and “Jesus.”
But the Witnesses also have an organization to run. Reporters show up asking questions. For structure they pull on examples like Acts 15 and 1 Cor 5. But is that justified? Hardly! There simply is no evidence that 1st century Christians had a structure like modern Witnesses. Surely if they did, you would hear of at least one case of a judicial committee and formula for how announcements were to be made, etc.
Take care,
 -Randy

Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:06 am
 

Great analysis Randy. I recently had a similar dicsussion with my daughter. I think that the reason Paul used “Lord” instead of the Tetragrammaton when quoting from Joel was intentional: he was showing a change under the new covenant. Under the old covenant YHWH was the means of salvation. Under the new convenant it had shifted focus on to Jesus as the means of salvation. The JWs actually obscure the meaning of scripture by tampering with it. I seem to recall Ray Franz noting something similar in his book “In Search of Christian Freedom.”
WS
Reply
 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:09 am
 

Great points Randy. I have a reply pending moderation. It is caught in the filters as I apparently used too many biblical buzz words. LOL
WS
Reply
 
 
 

 Doc Obvious says:

 June 15, 2016 at 7:51 am
 

All I have to say is that we should leave Watchtower’s donations in Jehovah’s hands. True Christians have faith that Jehovah will provide. Throw this type of philosophy back. Watchtower does not have that type of faith in Jehovah’s providing power. They do not believe that Jehovah can have it rain United States Dollars or Euros on the Watchtower.
Reply
 
 

 Sarah says:

 June 15, 2016 at 11:16 am
 

I’ve given some thought to the posts and now realise that you cannot divorce or leave someone simply because you think your spirituality is at risk. How can it be? If your spouse has a different point of view, so what? If your faith is so weak that you cannot withstand some other point of view then it’s not faith at all. I can find no scripture which would condone such a divorce.
An elderly man, a JW I knew years ago, had quite a difficult wife. She would hide his clothes on meeting nights and fail to make his dinner on time. That elderly man didn’t leave his wife and never complained. That sort of endurance has gone.
If your spouse hits you, don’t stay, but don’t leave because he/she doesn’t agree with your ideas.
Reply
 
 

 rob says:

 June 15, 2016 at 1:36 pm
 

I understand what the Bible says that households would be divided because of differing religious views and that sits ok with me because in many circumstances individuals can be divided on their opinions on many topics, and still be cordial towards one another and still stay together as a family.
What the Bible does not say is that a religion would destroy a family.
I have seen many witness families destroyed because of shunning, or one spouse leaving another just because the other spouse is no longer a witness and children abandoned and thrown away because they are no longer witnesses.
Divided is much much different than destroyed.
Reply
 

 fallingangel75 says:

 June 15, 2016 at 11:09 pm
 

@rob, I agree. At the moment, my family is divided, not destroyed. That is very painful and a situation I never thought I’d have to face, but what is more, knowing that the division/destruction (in my case and others) is based on false doctrines and misapplication of scripture adds an extra layer of anger, hurt, resentment, disappointment, and frustration.
Reply
 
 

 Victor says:

 June 16, 2016 at 12:11 am
 

I do not believe in the Bible but, anyway, Jesus said that the divided families would be a treatment that Christian would SUFFER, not that Christians would IMPOSED to others!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Minion says:

 June 16, 2016 at 9:14 pm
 

Greetings to all:
@ CF, great article on the added feature on The Watchtower Corporation web site.
FAQ section is missing a key component to communicate back to them, well, . . .here you go – communicate by FAX or EMAIL.
The Watchtower Corporation, the first year registration of jw.org was in 1999, and you have to renew the domain name every 2 or 3 years. They renew the other day through http://www.tucows.com a domain provider. The Watchtower Corporation had to provide name address and phone number’s and email. Well, here it is:
Registrant Phone: +1.7185605000
 Registrant Phone Ext:
 Registrant Fax: +1.8886636648
 Registrant Fax Ext:
 Registrant Email:
hostmaster@watchtower.net
Let your mind explore the possibilities, by using a fax and email.
Information You don’t get from The Watchtower Corporation, however, you get it from JWsurvey. The no spin zone.
* * Support The Worldwide Work * *
Peace out,
Reply
 

 Paranoid Android says:

 June 17, 2016 at 10:02 am
 

@ minion
Nice one.
Reply
 
 
 

 Doc Obvious says:

 June 17, 2016 at 8:40 am
 

A silent statement is a powerful statement. With the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion, books, magazines, brochures, videos through the decades have probably accumulated in your home. Books that do not mean much anymore. Staring at these books only bring back negative feelings regarding the religion.
In order to cut the Watchtower puppet strings, you will need to get rid of JW.org publications from your home. If you throw them away or donate them to a local library, this may bring in new bubble people into JW.org. Which is not what you intended.
Or you can put the JW publications into a box and deliver them to a kingdom hall and put the box on the front stoop. In that way, they are returned to sender. Before you do so, please if you have your name in these books, remove it.
Also, deliver to a Kingdom Hall that you have had no affiliation with.
Think of the benefits of having those publications out of your home. Most of those books are just gathering dust and have the value of dust. Live your life to the full.
Now you have room to put new books on bookshelves that are of immediate value to you. If they are in boxes, their just occupying space.
Reply
 

 Big B says:

 June 18, 2016 at 8:28 am
 

@ Doc Obvious;
Great advice and well worth the effort. Any JW publications and bound volumes that I’ve managed to keep are for reference only and are boxed in a storage unit. Just in case I need to show anyone JW teachings or opinions I will have it in print.
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 June 18, 2016 at 1:50 pm
 

Big B. I have the WT from Jan 1949- Dec 1949 that Somehow I found in an old house I was cleaning out. They are still in good shape. The Magazines were quite different in those days as I read them. They sounded more sincere and less CULT LIKE than what I see and read today. They talked more about Jesus and being better people although there was and still is the BIG ARMEGEDDON scare throughout the magazines. What should I do with these 1940 WT magazines? They had Ezekiel’s Chariot on the front of them.
Reply
 

 Big B says:

 June 18, 2016 at 3:35 pm
 

@ Holy Connoli:
Cool. I’ve only been able to see a few of these magazines with the Ezekiel’s chariot on them. I think, (not positive) they changed the cover in the 1950’s. Personally speaking, I like to collect old things (Studies in the Scriptures, J.F. Rutherford books, Life magazines, etc.) as a curiosity item. I never throw away historical items as a rule.
That being said, if owning these Watchtower’s bother you may be able to find a person who would love to have them as a collector’s item by selling them online for example (as the information in them is definitely outdated).
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 18, 2016 at 10:48 am
 

@Doc Obvious,
 You speak with the wisdom of a wizard.

I’ve found a comforting closure by burning old tracts and magazines in my wood stove, all while saving money on kindling.
Reply
 
 
 

 Mildred says:

 June 17, 2016 at 2:47 pm
 

Such liers. I’m so glad I left the JW’s
Reply
 
 

 Doc Obvious says:

 June 18, 2016 at 8:15 am
 

If you have Roku, the YouTube channel is available for free. I find it more enjoyable to play the John Cedars YouTube Subscription on a 1080p flat screen television. In that way, I can eat popcorn and enjoy the commentary. Thanks YouTube for making our lives a little more easier.
Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 18, 2016 at 10:01 am
 

That’s awesome, Doc Obvious! Made me chuckle!
WS
Reply
 
 
 

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← NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
 
The Worst Convention Ever – Part 4: Propaganda Movies
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Posted on June 18, 2016
 

For decades, Jehovah’s Witnesses have attended yearly multi-day assemblies, often sitting through scorching heat, fighting off sleep, attempting to take notes during an onslaught of talk after talk, all the while secretly praying for the end to come. No, not the end of the world, but the end of the assembly.
Most Witnesses faithfully endured an endless barrage of material, which was largely recycled from earlier conventions, but with a new convention theme such as “Divine Truth” or “Kingdom Loyalty”. The loyalty theme from the 1981 assembly series has been reinvented for 2016 as “Remain Loyal to Jehovah.”
One bright spot amidst an endless sea of lectures has always been the dramatic reenactments of Biblical tales, performed by local JW “actors” who attempted to lip-sync to an audio track provided by the Watchtower’s Governing Body. While tacky and exaggerated, these dramas served to break up the monotony of the assemblies, which was a welcome relief.
Whether a person is a believer in the Bible or not, the stories were often compelling and included an application for Witnesses, which they could pocket and take home with them. After all, who doesn’t enjoy a good story? If we demanded truth with all of our entertainment, movies like Star Wars and The Hobbit would have never been produced.
There is a deep emotional and psychological connection tied to theater, movies, television, and music. Since the days of Charles Taze Russell and his Photo-Drama of Creation, religious organizations have taken advantage of the power of media. With the availability of large, bright, affordable, portable displays coupled with advanced video production software, the Jehovah’s Witness organization has launched a new and improved video services department and have expanded their scope to include feature-length presentations designed to reach the emotional center of every viewer. The days of synced acting to audio recordings is now a footnote in Watchtower’s history.
Previously, JW Survey has covered many of the 3-5 minute long indoctrination videos, such as the Bunker series. In this article, we summarize and address the longer films, specifically the “Job” drama and the “Hezekiah” drama. It’s really hard to call them dramas anymore, as Watchtower has spared no cost to ensure that the highest quality production was achieved.
To be honest, I think Watchtower has realized its goal. These movies are like nothing else ever produced by this organization, and it is no wonder that the videos themselves are in fact the “new release” for 2016. That’s right folks, there are no books, no tracts, no booklets, nothing in print.  This is a fascinating transition, as Watchtower publications have always been viewed as an extension of the Bible, with one complementing the other. But video? What would Jesus say? If he were alive, would he preach using a camera and sophisticated software?
Clearly, the continual strain of producing written material year after year, followed by its distribution to tens of thousands of congregations worldwide, has taken its toll on the organization, both financially and physically. And, let’s be honest, there are less readers in the world these days and more viewers. Pushing out a data stream of videos through the JW.org website seems to be the most advantageous method of reaching the four corners of the globe, where users, even in remote villages, are obtaining tablets and smartphones.
The two dramas discussed in this article follow a long tradition for Jehovah’s Witness assemblies, that of orchestrating a dramatic presentation of a Biblical tale, complete with period costumes and driving the assembly theme home with a modern-day play, one that evokes real life circumstances. The Hezekiah drama is the former, and the Job film the latter.
 
The Job Drama
“Hope For What We Do Not See”
Plot Summary
Elena Ortiz - no_blood in ambulance
In the opening scene, a woman bleeds to death while medical personnel discover a “no blood” card

The film opens in a remote corner of Peru; an ambulance speeds frantically down an isolated stretch of highway. Inside, a paramedic wearing surgical gloves examines the identification of a female Jehovah’s Witness, Elena Ortiz (later called Carrie). The camera focuses tightly on a small card found on Elena’s person, a document which says “No Blood Transfusions Accepted”. Her husband rides with the ambulance and, as we find out later, watches his wife bleed to her death.

Immediately, we are transported to a placid beach, presumably in the United States, where Ethan Bannister explains a shooting star to his two sons, Rowan and Cory. He points out the constellation Leo, then tells the boys that Jehovah has a name for every star in the universe.
Bannister family with bibles
The Bannister Family – Proudly displaying their silver Jehovah’s Witness exclusive Bible

All is well in the Bannister world as the family enjoys time spent together in recreation, preaching, attending meetings, and even family study, where the boys act out the Biblical scene of David killing the giant Goliath.

But the paradise soon begins to crumble. Ethan’s worldly supervisor Conrad breaks the news that Ethan must choose between losing his job or taking a promotion at an associated plant – a job offer which includes a raise – along with the drawback of an almost 2 hour commute each way and overtime.  It’s promotion or deletion, and Ethan chooses deletion.
Next, Ethan’s father Nathaniel reveals that Ethan’s brother Bill has contacted him, and Nathaniel reveals that he has some doubts about the way he raised his sons, particularly since Bill was never baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
“You’ve got to understand son, you both are my boys,” says Nathaniel.
death of Nathaniel and Cory
Cory and Nathaniel are killed in a tragic auto accident

The real tragedy unfolds when Nathaniel picks up his grandsons, Rowan and Cory, from school but never makes it home; Nathaniel and Cory are instantly killed in a horrific accident. The Hollywood-esque style funeral takes place on a somber rainy day, inside a Kingdom Hall where mortified Jehovah’s Witnesses turn pages in their Silver Edition Bible. Ethan’s non-JW brother Bill is missing from the Kingdom Hall but shows up at Ethan’s home later to offer support and financial assistance.

Ethan attempts to comfort his son Rowan, who asks, “How can Jehovah let this happen?” Ethan answers by saying that there is no one to blame and that they will see Cory again.
The tragedies continue to pile on; unemployed Ethan next receives the news that he has cancer and must undergo immediate radiation treatments. The bills are stacking up when Ethan’s non-JW brother Bill arrives, once again, offering flowers and an explanation for why he never became a Jehovah’s Witness. Bill says that their father Nathaniel wanted him to be someone he wasn’t, and he suggests that Ethan no longer needs to be a Witness since Nathaniel is deceased. Bill reveals that the religion ruined his relationship with their father and that Ethan just played along with Dad all these years to keep the family together.
A fight ensues; Bill reminds Ethan that he has no money, he is drowning in debt, and he does not even have a job. He tells Ethan to “grow up” and take care of his family. “You can’t live on these prayers and fantasies forever,” says Bill, while Ethan rejects yet another offer for financial assistance.
Ethan’s woes continue as he is hospitalized for the removal of a tumor. Once home, he receives a visit from his childhood friend Victor, who has returned to the area and offers to help repair Ethan’s storm damaged roof. Victor mentions that the elder body needs Ethan and that they would even lighten the load for him, but Ethan reveals he has deeper issues at the moment.
The attention next shifts to Ethan’s wife Sasha, who finally breaks down under all the stress and cries when a mother, at school, attempts to comfort her.  The woman’s words haunt her: “Everything happens for a reason.”  Sasha argues with Ethan over his lack of communication with her and storms away from the dinner table.
In a surprise twist, Ethan breaks down and locates his former supervisor Conrad, hoping to get his job back but finds that the plant has closed, and Conrad himself is looking for work. This moment of weakness opens the door for Conrad, who tells Ethan that his dad was killed in the first Gulf War, just two days before his scheduled return. Conrad states that he begged God to bring his dad home; instead, an explosive device killed him.
conrad and ethan
Conrad tells Ethan: “Prayer – there’s nobody listenin’. And if there is a God, he doesn’t have time for us.”
At this point, Ethan and his family have hit rock bottom and have even ceased attending meetings. A visit from 2 elders ensues, where Sasha reveals her guilt for asking her father-in-law to pick up the boys the day of the accident.  One of the elders directs Sasha to read Ecclesiastes, chapter 9, verse 11, “just part B” – which states “because time and unexpected events overtake them all.”  These words fall deaf on Ethan, who says, “I know no one caused it, but no one stopped it either.” When the younger of the two Witnesses says, “I know it’s been tough,” Ethan lashes back and asks him how he knows this and what he knows about burying his father and son on the same day. Ethan walks away, and says, “I’m done.”
In the next scene, Victor returns, with his pickup truck and tools, ready to repair Ethan’s roof. Before he begins, he explains that he had previously been a “need-greater” in Peru, but when his circumstances changed he moved to New Mexico to help a congregation while trying to “stay focused.” Victor then invites Ethan to visit his parent’s cabin in the woods. The two men reconnect under the idyllic setting of a rushing stream, picturesque cabin, and miles of hiking trails. Ethan notices a photo on Victor’s smartphone and asks who the woman is. Victor says she was Carrie, his wife. He explains that, while serving in the ministry in Peru, everything changed when Carrie was killed in the accident mentioned at the outset of this plot summary.  Ethan is emotionally affected by this and asks Victor, “How did you cope?” Victor replies, “I just find a beautiful quiet spot, and I pray.” Victor manages to restore Ethan’s faith in prayer and hope for the future, and the two men walk away, cathartically regenerated. Ethan reconnects with Sasha, then with his son, Rowan.
The pendulum begins to swing in the opposite direction for Ethan as he returns to his doctor, who informs him that his cancer is in remission. On the heels of this news, we find that Ethan is suddenly back to work, back to the meetings (as an elder), and completely medication free. As if his regenerated life were not enough, his brother Bill finds a Jehovah’s Witness tract in his door and thoughtfully contemplates the message. Meanwhile, Sasha’s fellow school-mom, also, accepts a Witness tract entitled, “Can the Dead Really Live Again?”
This theme continues into the family Bible reading as Rowan reads from the book of Job, chapter 14:

“If a man dies, can he live again?

I will wait all the days of my compulsory service
Until my relief comes”
the end
The story ends with the following narrative, also taken from Scripture, this time from Romans chapter 8, verse 24:

“For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.”
 
 
The Hezekiah Drama
“Oh Jehovah, I Trust in You”
The period drama opens in Jerusalem, in the year 732 B.C.E.  Like the Job drama, the opening scene is a flashback, this time to the event where Judean King Hezekiah spreads out the demands of Assyrian King Sennacherib at the steps of the gold lined temple, along with a prayer to God for salvation, with a request that all nations know that Jehovah is the True God.
destruction of Samaria
Assyrians invade and destroy Samaria

Again we flash back, this time 8 years further, to 740 B.C.E. where the northern Israelite kingdom of Samaria is brutally decimated by the Assyrian army. One Israelite soldier manages to escape by removing the uniform of a dead Assyrian. He flees on foot all the way to Jerusalem, where he is brought before King Hezekiah and his military advisers. We encounter Hezekiah in the streets of Jerusalem, recounting the tale of David and Goliath to several young boys. The boys recite the Biblical tale with great enthusiasm, including the part of the story where David slings a stone of death into Goliath’s head, which he then cuts off with his sword.

Then, a little girl approaches Hezekiah carrying a young turtle-dove, which can’t fly, so the King tells the girl to keep it close and warm, and makes her promise not to keep the bird locked up in a cage, but when it is able to fly, set it free.
Back in Hezekiah’s chambers, the Samarian refugee Joel is introduced to Jaziel (with the Army) along with advisers Eliakim and Shebna. Also included in the inner circle is Isaiah the prophet.  Joel describes the brutality of the Assyrians, who hacked off hands, arms and heads en route to their conquest, even skinning alive the leading men of the city. Joel breaks down after describing the loss of his wife and all his children.
Isaiah
Isaiah blames the Samarian destruction on idol worship

Behind closed doors, arguments arise over the correct strategy to follow, in light of the Assyrian conquest. Isaiah reminds everyone that Samaria fell, not because of lack of tribute to Assyria, but because the Samaritans were worshiping false gods, and Jehovah foretold and permitted the destruction on that basis.

Shebna wishes to enlist the help of Egypt against the Assyrians, but Isaiah strongly objects, citing prior failed alliances with foreign nations.
Meanwhile … in the Assyrian capital of Nineveh, Sennacherib continues his brutal reign. Then, he is informed that Hezekiah has refused to pay tribute to Assyria and has further infuriated the king by conquering Philistine cities and unlawfully imprisoning the king of Ekron, Padi.
Just seven years after Samaria’s destruction, the Assyrian armies are threatening, and Hezekiah is advised that Lachish, just South of Jerusalem, will likely be the next target. Shebna again mentions an alliance with Egypt, but again Hezekiah refuses.  The chief of the army suggests a strategy of defense, which includes the building of a 2nd wall around Jerusalem, as well as constructing a tunnel to bring water from outside the protective wall inside the city, to the pool of Siloam.  Hezekiah then states that Jehovah will fight the battle for them.
As walls and weapons are under construction, the imprisoned King of Ekron asks to speak with Hezekiah. King Padi demands to be released, claiming that he can influence Sennacherib and help the Judeans. Hezekiah refuses, calling Padi a “contemptible worm.”  Padi reminds Hezekiah of the brutality that awaits Judah if they continue to ignore the Assyrian king.
A discouraged Hezekiah retreats to Isaiah’s inner chambers, where the prophet tells him “these are critical times.” The king begins to doubt his rebellion against Assyria, but Isaiah reminds him that his father was a puppet in Assyria’s hands. He reminds Hezekiah that he needs to trust in Jehovah, as he has already done by pulling down the places of false worship and repairing and reopening the temple. Still, Hezekiah laments the destruction of other cities in Judah, feeling responsible for their lives.  Isaiah, however, blames the demise of these Judeans on their own unfaithfulness, implying that due to their “half-hearted” spirituality, Jehovah has allowed their destruction.
Next, we are transported to the city of Lachish, where the Assyrians unleash all of their weapons in a full scale attack on the city just south of Jerusalem.  As Lachish falls, Hezekiah’s advisers again suggest an alliance with Egypt and the payment of tribute to the Assyrian king. In a moment of compromise, Hezekiah sends a delegation to the Assyrian army to negotiate an agreement. This move is a costly one, as the Assyrians demand far more gold and silver than the ambassadors can agree to, and they further call for the release of Ekron’s king Padi.
padi
Hezekiah watches Jerusalem’s gold, and his prisoner, King Padi, disappear

Forced to comply, workers gather an immense tribute of gold and silver, even chopping off the solid gold veneers of the temple doors. Adding insult to injury, Hezekiah watches as the valuable things of Jerusalem disappear on a wagon with haughty king Padi. When the tribute finally reaches Sennacherib, the king taunts the Judean emissary, asking him why Hezekiah agreed to pay the tribute, if Jehovah was their protector. The Assyrian king screams that he cannot be bought and that he tolerates no rebellion.
Military forces advance on Jerusalem. Hezekiah sends Eliakim and Shebna and a recorder to meet the Assyrian representatives. Rabshakeh speaks loudly and clearly in Hebrew, despite pleas that he speak in Aramaic. But Rabshakeh has no intention of making his declarations private, shouting to the men on the wall that Jerusalem’s inhabitants will eat their own excrement and drink their own urine if they continue to listen to Hezekiah. Surrender is demanded; Rabshakeh correctly points out that all other opposing cities have fallen before Assyria, including those which worship the God Jehovah.
Shebna breaks down in tears in a last minute appeal to the king to listen to reason and understand that Jerusalem is trapped, like a bird in a cage.  As a final measure, Hezekiah calls for the wisdom of Isaiah one last time. Isaiah declares that Sennacherib will be the victim of a conspiracy and die by the sword in his own land, Assyria.
We return to the opening scene of this drama, where Hezekiah appeals to God in prayer before the temple. He lays out the taunts of the Assyrian king before the temple and waits for God’s answer. Isaiah sends a messenger to declare the words of Jehovah himself–that he has taken notice of Assyria–and will now take action against Sennacherib, figuratively leading him by the nose back to his land before ending his life.
angel2a
The lone angel unleashes divine judgment on 185,000 Assyrians

Seconds later, in the dead of night, a lone angel appears above the Assyrian camp; with the sound of thunder and the golden flash of electric execution, the angel swipes the encampment with a single deadly flash, slashing 185,000 soldiers in their sleep. The next morning Sennacherib wakes up to the shocking scene of corpses surrounding him as far as the eye can see. One woman, along with a guard, survey the destruction in disbelief.  Nothing is left but smoldering campfires, useless weapons, and the bodies of those eliminated by God.
sennacherib
Sennacherib is forced to acknowledge Jehovah, at the expense of 185,000 lives

Back in Jerusalem, the news has reached the Hezekiah, and it’s all smiles and congratulations for the Judean king and his associates as the story comes to an end. We see the former encampment of Assyria–along with desolation and eerie peace– with no signs of life but the birds of prey circling in the distance, a subtle nod to the God who fattens the bodies of raptors with remnants of human life.

 
The concluding words of this drama are emblazoned across the screen:
“Jehovah rescues those who are loyal to him”
 
The Films Analyzed
While the contents of the “bunker” series of videos contains programming which, on the surface, is very controversial and overtly manipulative, these longer films engage the viewer in a much more subtle way than expected. The Biblical character of Job is mirrored by modern day Ethan, who, like Job, has a family, a job, and is in good health. His life is proceeding according to plan when “time and unexpected events” cause him to question everything he knows, and his life spirals into a spiritual and physical quagmire.
Ethan is expected to keep it all together amidst the loss of his son, his father, his job, even the respect of his wife. In the fairy tale style ending, Ethan’s health is restored, he receives a new job, and he has renewed faith that he will see his son and father once again in a future resurrection.  While this is a fictional story, we still must ask: Did loyalty to Jehovah have any bearing on Ethan’s recovery? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses suggesting that by remaining loyal to God and his earthly organization, good things will happen?
This might seem to be the case, but what really happened here? Ethan’s son and father are dead, and Jehovah did indeed permit this to happen. His job vanished when he needed it the most, when diagnosed with cancer. His worldly brother reached out to him with support and money, but he rejected this support because his brother decided at a very young age to leave the religion. His boss offered him a promotion as a solution to his impending layoff, but Ethan rejected this as well. It seems that the only people willing to lend practical assistance were non-Jehovah’s Witnesses.
While the implication is that reliance and loyalty to God lead to favorable outcomes, the hard truth of life is that the unfavorable outcomes will always follow, and we are left with the same questions and problems with which we started out. Maybe worse. We could write our own extension of this drama:  Ethan’s cancer is in remission, but it will return. “Impure” thoughts will plague his son Rowan, and he will be disfellowshipped when he has sex with a non-Witness girl from school. Sasha will have a subsequent mental breakdown and will be treated with antidepressants. Ethan’s brother Bill will not respond to the invitation to attend Witness meetings, and they will almost never see each other. This will tear the family apart. The organization offers little comfort, despite producing a motivational video about the modern-day equivalent of Job.  And we are right back to where we started!
In the Bible, Satan tests Job with permission from God. Satan is allowed to kill Job’s sons and daughters, as well as his livestock (means for living). A debilitating disease troubles Job, which causes immense suffering, but since his own life is to be spared, he must endure this tribulation.  All of this was, as the Bible admits, a clever social experiment worked out in heaven, with Job playing the leading role as a pawn in a chess game, which he never asked to play. Why? God needed to prove something to Satan and the universe, to answer Satan’s “taunt” that humans would not serve God without reward.
At the very core of Jehovah’s Witness belief is the notion that God has allowed intense suffering and death for thousands of years to prove that only He can rule mankind. Humans are incapable of governing themselves, and the allowance of evil for so long is, in fact, a necessary evil. The Job drama highlights that all other reasonings are invalid, and that those who feel disconnected from God due to tragedy within their own lives are faithless amoral people, like Ethan’s boss Conrad, who said:

“Prayer – there’s nobody listenin’. And if there is a God, he doesn’t have time for us.”
This film dips deeply into the emotional well of the viewer, exposing the modern-day Jehovah’s Witness family to devastating tragedy, then flipping the script, turning hopelessness into unbridled optimism. Defenders of the JW religion might suggest that hope is a good thing–but unrealistic hope for a fairy tale ending is anything but healthy. When a death occurs, Jehovah’s Witnesses replace the normal grieving process with a 30 minute sermon at a Kingdom Hall followed by the song “He Will Call”–a tear jerking reminder that the only life worth anything is the one which no one has ever lived, in a place called the “new world” where only Jehovah’s Witnesses reside.
How do Witnesses make it into this “New World”? This is where the Hezekiah drama delivers the logistics.  The short answer? Violence.
The tale of Hezekiah is filled with acts of aggression, terror, fear, political maneuvering, propaganda, and, of course, death. Lots and lots of death. While mainstream Christian religions debate the veracity of allegorical stories found in Scripture, Jehovah’s Witnesses stand firm in their belief that every Biblical account is true, from the mass drowning of Noah’s day to the future fiery apocalypse of Armageddon. In between, we have the execution of 185,000 Assyrian soldiers with the powerful swipe of a single angel.
Since Jehovah’s Witnesses are Biblical literalists, the God they worship is guilty of far more genocide than any other God worshiped by the thousands of religions of the world. Perhaps there is a small degree of comfort in the knowledge that no archaeologist has ever uncovered a shred of evidence supporting the mass killing of 185,000 soldiers outside the walls of Jerusalem.
burial
While ancient bodies are recovered regularly throughout Israel, like this one found in Caesarea, no evidence has ever been found of the 185,000 soldiers miraculously killed by one angel

One reason Witnesses identify so readily with the Hezekiah story is that he was considered a faithful and loyal Judean king, with some historical evidence suggesting he did,in fact, exist. To this day, the tunnel connecting the spring of Gihon with the pool of Siloam still exists, although some dispute the claim that Hezekiah engineered this tunnel. Adding to this questionable provenance is the fact that the JW timeline for king Hezekiah does not match evidence from other historical sources. Witnesses almost never fact-check statements made by their organization, such as the claim that Assyria wiped out Samaria in 740 B.C.E., or that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E.

Historical evidence aside, the focus of the drama is placed squarely on the narrative that Hezekiah remained loyal to God and accepted Isaiah’s advice to lean on Jehovah instead of foreign nations.  Loyalty is a recurring theme among Jehovah’s Witnesses, where organizational loyalty itself is synonymous with loyalty to God. Witnesses are taught never to lean on their own understanding, knowledge, or resources, just as Hezekiah was told not to lean on Egypt, and Ethan refused to take assistance from his “worldly” brother and boss in the Job drama.
For Witnesses, separation from the world is imperative. They often refer to the barrier between the outside world and their religion as a fence; a fence which should never be straddled. The Hezekiah story reinforces the Witness belief that it is “us against the world” and that we need to stay safe inside the walls of metaphorical Jerusalem, pray to God, and wait for salvation to come. Alliances with non-Witness organizations and family are discouraged or banned. Information is controlled.  Behavior is controlled. Thoughts are polarized, filtering out all outside reasoning. Finally, emotions are controlled with the written page, with music, and now with high-definition films.
After viewing these videos, you will likely be impressed by the quality of the production and the lengths to which the JW Governing Body has gone to deliver a message where false hope and Godly vengeance converge. As long as there are men interpreting pages from a book and translating these words into doctrine, people will follow, and they will believe what they are told. Perhaps one day, they will recognize that their loyalty is misplaced.
SN: To view the 2016 Convention video trailers, click here.
To view the full-length videos (and talk outlines/videos for the entire convention) click here.
 
Editors note: Please be sure to view video #4 in the 6 part series discussing the 2016 Regional Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses, courtesy of the John Cedars channel.


#worstconventionever

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66 Responses to The Worst Convention Ever – Part 4: Propaganda Movies

 Sarah says:

 June 18, 2016 at 11:33 pm
 

The book of Job is a difficult one but I’m not sure I can agree with all the conclusions reached above. Basically we have free will and so does Satan (or any wicked element if you prefer). If we choose to govern ourselves on our own terms then God will let us do it. If God stopped every inadvisable action, we then do not have free will.
Free will is good. We all have different opinions, as noted here, and out of that come some very interesting and useful ideas.
We get angry if God does not stop tragedies but we also get angry if he does. Hence we get cross when 185,000 Assyrians die. But what about the thousands saved?
Worshipping pagan gods is not something which is innocent. It included child sacrifice, temple prostitution etc. – a violent and disordered society. Today’s society quite likes war, seen as a solution to some problems, which ends up in many deaths.
What about governing ourselves? We are about to become extinct. The best way to destroy this earth is to burn fossil fuels. I prefer to have some hope that there is a solution to this but I do not believe humans will ever do anything to stop it.
Reply
 

 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 1:18 am
 

Sarah,
 Doesn’t Jehovah demand child sacrifice? How about the young virgins of the amaelekites kept alive while their families, men women and children were slaughtered with the help of Jehovah? What do you think they were kept alive for? And what did all those male children do that was so bad they deserved to die a terrifying death?

The same Jehovah who has bears devour children for calling a prophet baldy.
Also, do we have free will or not, when he interferes with events as much as he supposedly did in bible times?
Reply
 

 Sarah says:

 June 19, 2016 at 5:48 am
 

Yep, I know. All I can think is that those Amalekites would have gone on sacrificing their children, etc. The youngsters would have grown up and done the same. The girls had a chance at marriage when old enough. They wouldn’t have been subject to becoming prostitutes. I’m not the judge, and I can see your point of view.
I didn’t agree with the English government making thousands of young men go to their certain death at the end of the 2nd world war.
It’s never easy.
Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:09 am
 

Sarah,
Now you are rationalizing. It’s okay to kill the Amalekites because they would have just killed themselves anyway. So by that logic, in regard to agressive nations like those in the Middle East or North Korea, why don’t we just Nuke ’em? They are enemies of peace anyway.
You seem to have an emotional attachment to an idea that was likely implanted by JW indoctrination: everything written in the Bible was real and was somehow God’s will. And the worst part of that indoctrination is trying to justify horrible crimes against humanity as “God’s Will.” There are many mainstream Christians who accept the Bible as a guide for their lives, but don’t try to justify these crimes as of a divine nature. Or at least they say they don’t understand why God did it or allowed it.
WS
Reply
 

 Sarah says:

 June 19, 2016 at 11:31 pm
 

The Amalekites were murderers. If you prefer that they were allowed to continue to exist to kill their children you are free to believe that. I prefer to think there is justice somewhere. Hitler, Stalin etc. were allowed to kill millions. We each draw our own conclusions.
Life is good for some of us and dreadful for others. I don’t have any emotional attachment to any belief. There has to be some sort of law and order. We do what our governments tell us to do whether we like it or not or get put in prison. Should we protest that criminals should all be set free?
However, I like your posts, WS, and they do make me think so thanks, even for the controversy. The matters you raise are not short ones.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 20, 2016 at 7:33 am
 

Sarah,
 So all the Amalekites were murderers: men, woman, and children? There was no chance for reform of any kind, not even for the children? Law and order is one thing, genocide is another.

So let me get this straight, we are going stop the Amalekites from killing their own children by killing them ALONG with their children too? How’s that saving anybody? We need to see the execution of those foreign nations as what it was: Israel killing of competitors for resources and claiming it was the will of their God. To your point, life sucked back then and these acts of violence were common. We have come so far in our development as humans in that we all (for the most part) find such acts repugnant. Let’s not slip back into that mindset simply because a bunch of priests from 3000 years ago claimed it was “the will of God.”
I enjoy your comments too and I hope you don’t mind my pushing this issue a bit. It’s how we all grow. Not intended to be picking on you.
WS

 
 
 
 
 

 Chris says:

 June 19, 2016 at 2:37 am
 

I think this article is a really well balanced attempt to demonstrate the flaws in JW theology. God will solve the world’s problems by mass genocide (anyone enjoy saying that on the ministry?) and that God will help you if you pray, but you won’t be able to tell if he’s helping or not, you should just believe that he is helping.
But it also hints at flaws in the Bible’s presentation of God.
To Sarah: What is necessary to free will about the presence of harmful bacteria and viruses?
And to anticipate a reply: This can’t all be explained as ‘human imperfection’. Why would a perfect designer spend his time even bothering to create little destructive organisms that could kill his creatures slowly in a multitude of painful ways? Especially if he was going to design an immune system to fight them off?
Wouldn’t it be simpler to just, y’know, not create viruses?
And it isn’t just us that suffer, but our fellow animals; and the Bible didn’t even say that animals sinned. It is silent on viruses and bacteria because people then didn’t know those things existed. And God, who could have told them through Moses in the law, instead just gave them a lot of useless ceremonial purity laws that tied Leprosy (hansen’s disease) to house-leprosy (most likely mildew). Not very enlightened. Certainly not something a self-righteous priestly caste couldn’t come up with on their own and call a revelation.
Just my thoughts.
Reply
 

 Sarah says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:02 am
 

Yes, the article is helpful. I don’t personally believe there will be a mass genocide. Lots of people live by principle.
Death is the problem, not viruses. Actually the Mosaic law was helpful in preventing a lot of disease. Leprosy did not spread as far in Israelite society. The Jews didn’t die from pork-borne illnesses, etc. Considering the times they lived in most of them lived until well into old age.
No, the priests did not come up with the law on their own, which is a good reason to believe in God or someone who knew better.
Life, of any sort on this planet, wouldn’t exist without bacteria and viruses. However, self-righteousness is probably the worst sin there is so I agree with you on that.
I have done a lot of research on global warming and this is my greatest fear. Without God there is no hope for most of us. We know what to do to put it right but we are not going to do it. Some might survive but in what sort of world?
Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:53 am
 

So let me ask you Sarah, should we all just stop working to counteract Global Warming and resort to prayer? As you say, we cannot solve this problem, so then why bother trying, eh? You see the problem with such reasoning, I am sure. If you take extreme reasoning, which is what a literal interpretation of scripture calls for, you end at a completely illogical conclusion. I have faith, not in a literal interpretation of an old book, but rather that the Creator has given us the tools we need to deliver ourselves through the problems we face.
WS
Reply
 

 Lynaire Williams says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:01 pm
 

Good afternoon Winstone, Your words resonate so deeply, I am urged to comment. What you say ” I have faith, not in a literal interpretation of an old book, but rather that the Creator has given us the tools we need to deliver ourselves through the problems we face.” That is it.”!!! We (Humanity) is IT. Both the problem and the solution. Hopefully, as parents, we let our children make mistakes and don’t rush to make it “all better”. The world is our mistake, we engineered every problem there is.We are that powerful.It is as easy as “Know yourself,”correct yourself and be the change you are longing to see in our world.

 
 

 Sarah says:

 June 19, 2016 at 11:35 pm
 

Winston you have me wrong here. I am doing my best to stop using fossil fuels and will continue to make my carbon footprint smaller. However, I am part of a much larger picture. Humans in general are not going to stop using fossil fuels. I’m being realistic. Maybe my fatalism will prompt a change? Hope so.

 
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 20, 2016 at 10:04 am
 

Sarah,
 I work in the field of science and engineering. We are constantly developing better, cleaner ways to get energy. Yes, we still depend on fossil fuels, but we are getting less dependent on them. We are also burning fossil fuels in a much cleaner and efficient manner than even 20 years ago.

As I have said before, God has given us the ability to make good decisions and to use our abilities to better ourselves. If God had to step in every time we ran into trouble, there would be something really deficient with his creation.
Do you think it is possible that your fatalism is residual of the JW doomsday conditioning?
WS

 
 
 

 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:45 am
 

Sarah,
 So how long will god wait? History is full of disasters, and people thinking “this is it! This must be the end!” (plague, wars, etc) but nothing happened. So I am curious why you think global warming is the reason god would suddenly jump in again, as opposed to some other problem? I’m really not trying to pick on you; i am curious. And like previous posters said, there are many people working to make the world a better place, in big and small ways. Should they stop trying to cure diseases or doing volunteer work because god will eventually decide to jump in?

Reply
 
 

 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:55 am
 

The Romans had sophisticated plumbing, baths and fresh water supply. Did they get those ideas from their gods? When european explorers arrived in the ‘new world’ they found gridded cities, organized, and amazingly clean. Did they get these sanitation concepts from their gods?
Reply
 
 

 Steve McRoberts says:

 June 19, 2016 at 12:26 pm
 

The point Chris is making is: why would a loving god, who wanted us to live forever, create disease? Why would it create the Sun with a finite life (which is already about half over), when our “living forever on a paradise earth” depends upon a Sun that also lives forever? Why would it create an Earth that is slowly spinning to a stop, when life on Earth requires it to continually spin? http://smmcroberts.net/blog/you-cant-live-forever-in-paradise-on-earth/
The more you know about reality, the more unrealistic the god of the Jehovah’s Witnesses appears.
And not even a god can “make it right” when it comes to child abuse, etc. Such things leave everlasting scars that even a divine magician cannot erase without interfering with freewill. http://smmcroberts.net/blog/will-jehovah-make-it-right/
It’s up to us, alone in the universe, to do the best we can to solve our problems. Even if our chances of success are small (and in some cases, such as global warming, appear all but impossible), that does not mean that there’s a god who’s going to swoop in and magically fix everything. Such wishful thinking is fine, I guess, if it doesn’t lead to inaction when it comes to working out solutions.
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 Paranoid Android says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:42 am
 

@Sarah. Free will and God have never co-existed anyway. All that transpires is according to HIS will.
 According to the bible God has selectively intervened on many occasions.

On a global level in fact when he murdered the population of the world with a flood.
The justification for mankind’s suffering based upon God’s allowance for free will is a myth especially when you also consider how God will, according to JW teachings ‘put it into the minds’ of the government’s of the world to turn against religion thereby kickstarting the Great Tribulation.
 Not much free will going on here is there?

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 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:48 am
 

Exactly. I don’t understand the free will assertion since he is constantly meddling and putting things in peoples minds. I’d have to look in the bible but didn’t he a few times compel ancient kings to do this or that?
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 Dwc says:

 June 19, 2016 at 8:36 am
 

So here the thing about free will and God… He gave the first man and woman only 1 command originally. They could’ve done anything else they wanted to and God wouldn’t have cared. They had the ultimate free will. They were never told “don’t smoke, don’t do drugs, don’t go on a party bender…” No they were only told one thing. Respect gods authority.
Now the article addresses this and I understand the mass genocide argument. I suppose the bigger rhetorical question is this: if God created this planet and it is his, as the owner much Iike you or I owning a home… Do we not have the right to evict unruly tennents? No I see the argument for mass genocide but God also said only the wicked? He did not say only Jehovah’s witnesses will be saved. Joel does say all who call on the name of Jehovah/YHWH/LORD will be saved.
So the point I’m getting at is this: the brush used to broad stroke is a bit inaccurate. The mass genocide is in effect an eviction. And judging by the way humans have treated each other and this planet I can’t blame God or Jesus for wanting to kick humans off this rock. We have to accept some of the blame no? Or is all the frustration just one way and we are no better than the GB?
I’m wondering if anyone has seen the last video or if it is up for download on the JW.org site
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 Paranoid Android says:

 June 19, 2016 at 11:17 am
 

That’s not really sound arguing I’m afraid.
 It’s not eviction. It’s murder.
 Banishment from Eden was eviction.
 THE flood was murder.
 Just like him commanding the sword against the children of Israel’s enemies was.
 When someone is manipulated into an action, free will is negligible anyway.
 The story of adam and eve.
 The unnecessary planting of the tree.
 The permission given to Satan to deceive Eve.
 In fact. GOD has manipulated every aspect of Human development.
 PParticularly evident in prophetic fulfillment.
 I.e. Judas betraying Jesus. SOMEONE HAS TO DO IT TO FULFILL PROPHECY.
 Jesus even told Judas he’d do it.
 They knew in advance.
 Predetermined fate.
 Manipulated by God.

The illusion of free will.
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 Sarah says:

 June 19, 2016 at 11:48 pm
 

Sorry, everyone. I seem to have started a storm. Global warming isn’t our only problem, just one example. Some have mentioned animals. We are killing them ourselves for meat, and by global warming they are going extinct, have nowhere to live, etc.
We do have the brains, thankfully, to sort it out. But it seems my tactic is working. I’ll take this to a higher level and write to newspapers and tell them that we are not going to sort out our problems. This may make us do it, although I doubt it.
One thing I do know – get a lot of people together and we all have a different opinion.
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 dee2 says:

 June 20, 2016 at 8:45 am
 

@Sarah:
Some scientists such as Stephen Hawking warn that climate change is definitely a pressing issue that could contribute to humanity’s demise.
 According to Hawking, climate change continues to escalate, with no end in sight:
http://www.techinsider.io/stephen-hawking-predictions-about-the-end-of-the-world-2016-1 :
“We don’t know where global warming will stop. But the worst case scenario is that Earth will become like its sister planet Venus with a temperature of 250 [Celsius] and raining sulfuric acid. The human race could not survive in those conditions.”
Man certainly has a propensity to disagree and not cooperate as you have mentioned, and this can certainly be an obstacle to solving major problems like global warming.
Divine intervention is your solution to this potential obstacle to solving the global warming problem and to your doubt that mankind will be able to put an end to climate change.
As another poster asked – why do you think global warming is the reason God would suddenly intervene, as opposed to some other problem/disaster such as WW1, WW2 for example?
Will God also intervene to put an end to the other things which threaten human existence and make the earth hostile to life such as:
 earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, avalanches, landslides, wildfires,
 floods, tropical storms, hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones, tsunamis, tornadoes, snow storms/blizzards, dust storms, sink holes, lightening, massive asteroids crashing into the planet etc.?

How can you be sure that God’s intervention will solve our global warming problem when God doesn’t seem to have a very impressive track record when it comes to intervening to solve problems when we consider that despite the global annihilation during the Flood of Noah’s day, humans have carried on after the Flood in their usual ways. Was that intervention worthwhile? Did it accomplish anything?
 (Which then leads to another question: how then does a moral and omniscient God justify wiping out most of life (not just humans – according to the Bible, God was angry with human wickedness but he destroyed animals as well) in the worldwide flood if mankind was only to continue on as before?)

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 John Redwood says:

 June 19, 2016 at 11:15 am
 

Sarah
You said “We get angry if God does not stop tragedies but we also get angry if he does. Hence we get cross when 185,000 Assyrians die. But what about the thousands saved?”
Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why God lacks the ability to negotiate a peaceful solution to all of the “sin” which permeates the earth? For example, why didn’t God simply put a thought into the mind of a few Assyrian military leaders, and have them de-throne Sennacherib instead of executing all of those soldiers, a great many who (if you believe the story) had wives and children.
If God is the ultimate peacemaker and negotiator, he could carry out his will in a way which does not cause devastation and destruction.
And what of the animals? God became so enraged with the world scenario in Noah’s day that he wiped out (or should I say drowned) all living creatures – animals which never presented any moral opposition to God?
Your argument about the “thousands saved” implies that God is very weak, and his only solution to impending violence is more violence. If God took a class in negotiating, he would fail. This argument is similar to the one used by the US when they bombed Hiroshima during WW2. They believed this mass killing would ultimately save many more US and Japanese lives. It was a statistical and calculated maneuver by political and military leaders who felt this was their only option. In the case of the omnipotent God, he has other options at his disposal, and chooses violence and death instead of producing a peaceful solution.
As for governing ourselves – There are thousands of scientists and engineers working on this problem, and they have already found solutions which will solve our energy crisis. It will take a few years to fully implement, but solar and wind alone are making huge strides in many countries, slowly reducing the demand on energy plants which use coal and other fossil fuels. The strides we are making are real, and they are working. And God is not pitching in to help. Unless you believe keeping the sun burning is his way of producing solar energy…
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 dee2 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 2:33 pm
 

@Sarah:
According to the Bible, God
 endorsed the genocide of the Canaanites and others living in the ‘promised land’ because the Canaanites, among other things, practiced human sacrifice; the sacrificing of their children was so detestable that it justified, “killing everything that breathes” (Deuteronomy 7:1-2; Deuteronomy 12:29 – 31; Deuteronomy 20:16-17; Leviticus 18:21, 24-27), yet God sacrificed his own son – how ironic.

How ironic it is that God endorsed the genocide of the Canaanites and others living in the “promise land” for practicing human sacrifice, yet sacrificed his own son. If human sacrifices were so detestable that it justified, ” Killing everything that breathes ” then why did God do similarly by sacrificing his own son?
*********
@Sarah, @Dwc:
If we truly have free will as you claim, then why didn’t God just start the world with the conditions that are claimed will exist in the Future Paradise?
Persons would simply have free will but no inclination for sin or they would have free will but can still sin but would be destroyed. No Satan or snake to tempt. No Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil to tempt.
The very belief in this future Paradise shows that there is a set of conditions that God could have started with but did not.
_____
Further, if we truly have free will as you claim, then why is it necessary for mankind to die for someone else’s sins – Adam’s & Eve’s – as we have been told? Each person should die for their own sins if we truly have free will as you claim. Otherwise, the Adam and Eve story is teaching us that we don’t have free will since mankind’s evil acts are because of Adam’s and Eve’s fall, and hence why we need to die for their sins.
The Adam and Eve story teaches us that persons do bad things because someone else committed a sin, it has nothing to do with their own free will to choose wrongly; it is Adam’s and Eve’s sin that is causing us to choose wrongly, not our own free will and therefore this is why we must pay for the sins committed by someone else – Adam and Eve – with inherited sickness and death.
If we don’t sin on our own then the Adam and Eve story is teaching us that we don’t have free will.
 If we do sin on our own, and we do have free will, then why is it necessary for us to die or get sick because of the sins committed by someone else – Adam and Eve?

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 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 3:45 pm
 

Not only imperfection, but we also have Satan running around telling us to do bad things like take a census in Israel. In 2 Samuel, Satan put the idea in David’s head. And God allows him to do this (was he preventing such influences before?) And then he punishes the whole nation when David asks that only he be punished. It’s not even as simple as comply or die, it’s completely chaotic.
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 dee2 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 5:47 pm
 

******Forgot to include the following condition which is also claimed to exist in the future Paradise:
No death by sickness or aging given that humans will be perfect.
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 James Steel says:

 June 19, 2016 at 12:16 am
 

….worth noting that the secular jobs of the characters as JWs are: frustrated violin player who works in a factory.
 Frustrated overly stressed family man who works….well, in a factory! Why do we (I am a JW) instill this to our young ones? Surely I do not want to work in factory, unless there is no way out and I need bread to eat. Most of us in UK have free education and I often say this to the young ones at the KH. It falls into deaf ears! Education, education and education may give you a chance to better yourself and to give you self esteem. Even in the org. you need education to analyse some of the bullshit we read, ie “overlapping generation”, 607bce vs 587bce, the obstruse 1914 calculation…and even with an educated brain you can still baffle at what you hear and read. So WTF is going on?

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 Outandabout says:

 June 19, 2016 at 9:21 pm
 

It’s simple, James. Millions now living have been totally duped! Creating ‘truth’ is as easy as Queen Nefertiti of Egypt wishing to become a God. All she did was keep repeating that she was one, and Hey Presto!, she became one in the eyes of her subjects. Fast forward to the present and you have the population of Nth Korea believing their Dear Leader flits around on a rainbow and doesn’t need to go to the toilet. We also have the GB telling you they are gods chosen organisation, over and over and over, until…..it’s the truth! IT WORKS!!
If you need to know who has control over you, just identify who you are not allowed to criticize.
 Voltaire.

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 Big B says:

 June 20, 2016 at 7:08 am
 

@ Outandabout
So true, it indeed works.
“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”.
“All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach”.
Adolf Hitler
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 Lemony Snicket says:

 June 20, 2016 at 2:38 pm
 

So many unfortunate events..
Reality flies out the window, and note how they have weighted this term with derogatory connotations throughout the presentations and videos. Anyone who invokes “reality” is “evil” and unspiritual–non-gnostic?
Most presentations paint non-JW’s as “evil” (“not wholesome”) and manipulative/deceptive in the case of the brother, Bill, holding Ethan hostage to his financial support and insensitivity to his health needs. It stops short of exploring why Bill had issues with his father [note: no reference to Bill’s family or wife in the synopsis so assume this is true of the real video, which could be implying that Bill is LGBTQ or otherwise undateable]. It also runs counter to their usual practice, and the elders practice of surrounding someone in a meeting like sharks and asking, “why wasn’t he proactive in thinking about providing support for his family before taking such rash action?” Oh yeah, they can play this video all they want, but the practice is FAR from this IDEAL.
If an individual had no exposure beyond the Watchtower, they’d buy into “worldly” people’s behavior conforming to this mindset and assume that one incident or expression by a warped person confirms Watchtower’s summation of ALL persons.
Even if newly splashed-down into JW community, the mind has already started buying into their view of “the world,” so counterpoints to these presentations are blocked.
I think the response to tragedies and other catastrophes–natural, or criminal–highlight that atheists, agnostics, Christians, Buddhists, Islamics, Jews, etc have a decent nature. The point is that individuals need Christ because decency alone and obedience to laws is NOT redeeming. Message missing from these presentations.
Overall, it is heavily weighted on reliance on faith, which is not a bad thing if persons are so inclined, but it comes at the cost of setting expectations that all adherence to this “checklist” will end with “music swell” and “happy endings”. Every rose has thorns, and every fish has bones.
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 John Plummer says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:01 am
 

For providing evidence that the Bible is of human origin I love the book of Job! An allegedly perfect and loving God chooses to make a wager with Satan and as part of the “rules” Satan is allowed to kill all of Job’s 10 children. But, no worries, at the end of the story Job fathers another 10 children – so that’s alright then isn’t it!!!
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 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 3:36 pm
 

Meh, Job’s children were just property anyway. Let me try to explain what is just:
God cursed an entire animal species (the serpent) for being used by Satan (did the serpent have free will?) I wonder what snakes looked like before.
On the other hand, Cain, the first murderer, was protected by god when he “took up residence in the land of Fugitiveness.” Apparently people wanted to punish Cain and God forbade it.
And David never got punished. Oh wait, his child suffered. And he took a census, and as punishment chose plague in Israel, since God refused David’s request for the punishment to be on him only (the one who actually sinned), and he still got to be an ancestor of Jesus… oh goodness it really is a crap shoot.
Personally I am really hoping to just be struck dead and not devoured by bears or turned into salt, but, I guess I’ll just have to take what’s coming. It would be cool if I just got modified like the serpent… oh wait, I’ve already been punished with modification, since I’m a woman and my body was changed so that it would be excruciatingly painful and dangerous for me to reproduce… also my brain got smaller and more stupid (Sam Herd). I probably shouldn’t even HAVE free will.
I am just glad most human societies have gotten beyond punishing children for the sins of their parents. And I’ll take my chances with global warming.
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 Outandabout says:

 June 19, 2016 at 9:40 pm
 

Global warming could turn out to be ok. Every action has an equal and opposite effect. As land goes under water, other land now laying useless will become useful. Now might be a good time to buy some land in Greenland in order to plant a damn good banana plantation. The dinosaurs survived for 165 million years in a warm world. I’ve seen an image of what the outline of the U.S. would look like after risen sea levels and it’s still recognisable as the USA. I’m not suggesting we do nothing to prevent global warming, but at the same time, don’t panic. Life has an uncanny ability to cling on by it’s fingernails. The ice age hasn’t actually ended…..it’s still warming. NOTHING stays still. The only constant is change, and you can rely on that.
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 Telescopium says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:51 am
 

Okay, regarding the Job video, I’m just gonna come out and say it:
Usage of the term ‘NEED-GREATER’ needs to end. Now.
Seriously, it needs to stop! It’s a lame expression that sounds incredibly stupid! I hate it!
It’s embarrassing to think that the cult that controlled me for so long would use something so… so… cheesy. Why couldn’t I have been the victim of a sophisticated cult?
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:12 am
 

Telescopium, this is not criticism and maybe I misunderstood your joke, is there such a thing in your mind as a sophisticated cult? Or is that the joke? I really can’t tell.
Reply
 

 Telescopium says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:50 am
 

FallingAngel75,
 Sorry about that. I was definitely joking. I know cult control is no laughing matter, but I’m in a good mood today and can’t hold back the optimism that accompanied the sunshine this morning.

And since you asked, I really can’t envision a sophisticated cult. It would logically reason itself into nonexistence.
Whoa! -mind blown-
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 Telescopium says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:57 am
 

For the record, I was joking about sophisticated cults.
I was NOT joking about cessation of the use of the offending phrase. Its continued use is a form of persecution and may well constitute the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 8:02 am
 

Haha. I thought it was a joke. Funny too. 😉
Sad if it wasn’t. I’m glad to hear that you are feeling optimistic.
I’m amused at your hatred of the phrase. You’re right, it is corny, but I do not feel quite as strongly, lol.
Happy Sunday! 🙂
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:57 am
 

What resonates with me about the analysis is the same thing I noticed as I read the description (before I got to the breakdown John gives at the end) because it’s the same thing I’ve observed in my own life.
There were practical solutions to Ethan’s problems. A promotion, help from his brother, etc., that he was discouraged from taking.
Even his cancer cure is because he accepted medical treatment. It was no miraculous intervention from Jehovah.
Again, I say, in my own life, the times when I had the greatest struggles, I did get sympathy from fellow JWs. I am getting it now.
But there were and are also ridiculous suggestions about how I should cope. I mean, the most useless advice, some of which would actually be harmful to me if I followed it.
No ulterior motives. I’m not implying any of the individuals involved want to hurt me. But simply by following the party line and regurgitating the kind of advice and scriptures proffered in this example and countless other experiences of loyal ones printed in the publications, the advice is worse than worthless.
In dealing with depression or grief, being told to read the Bible more and focus on others by increasing time in the ministry was not helpful.
I seem to be in the minority of commenters on this site in that I really enjoyed the ministry earlier in my life. I still have many good memories from time spent with my family and friends, but when I lost a family member and another close friend in death, 6 months apart, and I was a teenager, so it was my first time losing anyone, the scriptures didn’t help. The resurrection hope didn’t help.
Grief counseling and a psychiatrist helped. Secular books on the grief process and how to cope and what to do next are what helped. Nothing from the society did.
It didn’t address my problems at all. And there’s that gap. What gap?
They tell you to focus on the hope of the new world and Jehovah’s promises, but they don’t really tell you what to do with yourself now. Between the time that the tragedies happen and the promised new system becomes a reality.
Other than to maintain your spiritual routines and if that doesn’t help, increase your activities. Look outward and see if anyone around is worse off and try to help them.
But what if you feel so sad and have so much despair that you can’t? Or what if you have no financial resources? Then you just feel guilty for not doing what you should and/or resentful of and let down by those who judge you because they fail to understand your struggle.
And the interesting thing in my own case, is this. I still volunteered. I didn’t wallow in my own sadness. I helped children learn to read. I worked with Habitat for Humanity. I helped cancer patients and victims of domestic violence.
And I’m not trying to say that I’m better than anyone. I’m saying that it actually is helpful to help others less fortunate than you. It is helpful to do something that makes a difference and improves the lives of others, even strangers.
But the healing I experienced was much more profound when I worked with causes and charities that are recognized in the world at large to be doing good.
It’s not door-knocking early in the morning. No one thinks Habitat or Susan G. Komen is a nuisance. 🙂
People were grateful. It does not require the endurance and ego strength of the ministry.
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 eyes opened says:

 June 19, 2016 at 11:31 am
 

Hi Fallingangel75,
I so agree about helping others. I know my comment isn’t quite in line with the article, but I just had to share this with you. I had the opportunity to work with a team from a well known corporation (I shouldn’t name names I suppose) sorting and organizing items donated at a food bank. It was a wonderful experience! We enjoyed our work together and cooperated with each other, no egos. And I learned so much about the real needs of those less fortunate. The supervisor of the program explained a great deal about the needs going beyond just food and paper products. There was a real effort being made especially so school children wouldn’t feel different when the teacher asks them to bring in a box of Kleenex, they make sure that child has one to bring. Or making sure the child’s packed lunch was in the same kind of baggies every other kid has. So much concern and consideration over things I never realized. My family and I have always had our needs cared for. It was an eye-opener, a wonderful experience that I won’t forget. I have never felt that fulfilled riding around in rural territory for 3 hours counting my time and maybe meeting 1 person that wasn’t even interested. I admit I at times had “good” calls in the ministry that were enjoyable, but those calls never had the profound effect on others that volunteering for helpful organizations does. Such volunteer work is tangible and you know someone benefits and their life may be just a little more pleasant because of it. Isn’t that what love of neighbor is really all about? I’m eagerly await the next opportunity to assist. 🙂
Regards
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 Winston Smith says:

 June 19, 2016 at 12:20 pm
 

@FA75,
 I appreciate your perspective. It’s similar to what I found – the JW solutions simply have no substance. At best, the JW solutions are much like a doctor who is kind and has a good bedside manner, but simply gives his patients placebos. While the kind attention may be appreciated for a while, without real medicine there is no real healing or recovery.

The Witness message is partly right, don’t look inward all the time, reach out to help others; but in practice, to do this by empty door knocking and proselytizing brings no real satisfaction. It’s a placebo effect. That’s why you found greater satisfaction in working with charities.
WS
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 fallingangel75 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 1:03 pm
 

@WS, I agree 100% about the placebo effect. And depending on the ailment, placebos do achieve limited results for some, but not lasting results for most.
Again, part of the reason there are such high numbers of depression and suicide. People are not getting the practical help they need.
I currently have limited involvement with a few mental health outreach programs and I do feel like it is only fair to say that this problem is not unique to JWs.
The root cause is unique, but the problem is actually widespread.
There are many religious and social reasons seeking mental health help is stigmatized and also economic constraints and limitations that keep people from getting help. So I don’t want to lay all the blame on the organization.
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 Twmack says:

 June 19, 2016 at 9:54 am
 

Well summed up John. Subtle, emotional manipulation,
 with a crude sledgehammer conclusion “Comply or Die”
 “An offer you can’t refuse”

How did the Mafia boss phrase it? – “Either your signature
 will be on the contract, or your brains”. Tony Morris even
 eclipsed that, intimating that “Millions will be roasted and
 split open like hot dogs” at Armageddon, for not signing up.

Your compliance or your life is a threat explicit not just in the
 Bible but in other “Holy Books” and is being acted out right
 now. Not on some huge movie screen but for real. People
 beheaded, stoned to death, thrown off buildings, and sadly
 even “Burned Alive”.

Only people deprived of their reason through constant
 brainwashing can accept such things as part of some divine
 plan. I was one of them, I was a “Jehovahs Witness” a regular
 attender at these, sometimes 8 day radicalisation sessions.

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 Harry Cadanza says:

 June 19, 2016 at 12:55 pm
 

I watched all the videos and talks given at the 2016 three day convention recorded on youtube. Goodness, I feel this convention is depressing!! I believe the society is deliberately trying to make people cry. I’m glad I no longer attend. Maybe some will walk away from the convention knowing it’s manipulation at it’s worst based on making everyone emotional.
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 Tara says:

 June 19, 2016 at 2:10 pm
 

Ive still not seen any comments on the actual convention from ‘friends’ on fb. I’ve seen their new clothes and the pouting selfies with bored looking spouses, I’ve seen the pictures taken of their ‘wonderful kids’ but no comments on the content of the convention. May as well have dressed up and gone to a hockey game to take pictures for all the feed back that is… er…lacking
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 dee2 says:

 June 19, 2016 at 6:27 pm
 

Did Job really believe in the resurrection as the WT claims?
 According to Job 7:9-10, Job plainly states that the dead shall never be raised from their graves:

Job 7:9-10:
“As the cloud disappears and vanishes away,
 So he who goes down to the grave does not come up.
 He shall never return to his house,
 Nor shall his place know him anymore.”

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 ligniappe says:

 June 19, 2016 at 7:31 pm
 

This was not a site intended for grievances against God. It is meant to expose the excesses and abuse of the WT and those with responsibility and are abusing that.
Why don’t we confine it to that?
As for your comments dee2 if you can cherry pick and take matters out of context we all can do that.
As Job said (Job 14:13-15) 13 O that in She′ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! 14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes. 15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.
 Jehovah never put Job to the test Satan did. Job was a man that had guts and integrity and Jehovah loved him and restored all that he had.

Pity there isn’t more like Job now.
As for the “murder”of Job’s children Satan did that. But to put that in context, Police forces all around the world are put in place to protect citizens so when a murder happens do we hold the Police responsible or the person who committed the murder? Give me a break.
In any case whichever way you think, there must be atheist web sites where you can have great fun bagging God. That is your business and right, but let’s keep on track why Cedars started this site off in the first place
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 yawn says:

 June 19, 2016 at 9:15 pm
 

Pretty sure you don’t get to determine what we can and can not talk about here, sorry. There must be Christian web sites where you can have great fun bagging skeptics. I think God probably doesn’t need you to defend him, and I’m sure if Cedars or a moderator thought the discussion inappropriate or irrelevant, they will let us know.
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 Outandabout says:

 June 19, 2016 at 10:25 pm
 

What?!, bagging god? I for one would never bag god. Remember that show ‘Hitch hikers guide to the Galaxy’ from the 70’s where at the end, the answer to life, the universe and everything turned out to be something like 36? Well that number has grown considerably since then. The answer now stands at 10 trillion multiplied by 49 billion. Quite an advance. Ten trillion km’s is the distance light travels in one year and 49 billion light years is the distance we can ‘currently’ see into space in all directions. Our galaxy is about 100,000 light years across and the universe contains billions of galaxies. In the scale of all that, the earth is pretty much nothing. If god was all powerful, he could get by with just one galaxy or even just our own solar system. But no! I think we really need to all stand in front of the mirror and give ourselves a good talking to about our ego’s. All that out there exists to support us???? It’s starting to look a bit silly now. First we thought the earth was flat and would have killed to defend that notion, then we thought it was at the centre of the solar system and would have killed to defend that notion as well. Religious recruitment will eventually grind to a near halt leaving only the young and curious looking for something a bit quirky and different, and others who have a deep desire to be a slave. The rest will face reality.
Reply
 

 Sarah says:

 June 20, 2016 at 12:06 am
 

Just to support Ligniappe a little. God is not the problem. If he has a way of sorting things out, then so be it. If we tried to sort out our problems we’d all do it a different way. At present WT seems to be the common problem.
By the way, I thought the answer to life was 42, and yes, the universe is big.
Reply
 

 Outandabout says:

 June 20, 2016 at 2:14 am
 

Ah, right. 42. Thanks.
To put a bit of perspective on the size of the universe:- the light reaching us from a distant exploding star could well have been travelling for millions of years at 10 trillion km’s per year before finally reaching us. The star itself will be long gone.
 Those sorts of distances don’t support the idea of the universe being created just for humans.


 
 

 dee2 says:

 June 20, 2016 at 8:57 am
 

@Sarah:
“God is not the problem”.
……..the Bible is the problem. It is filled with contradictions, inconsistencies and inadequacies which when acknowledged, clearly show that God did not inspire the wording of the Bible or protect its texts from error.
Anyone who reads any religious book with an open mind will soon realise that it is the ideas of men and that the Bible should instead be read as fictional allegory, myths written with a meaning and a purpose:
– For the Old Testament, that purpose was to unite the Jewish people in a common sense of national, racial and religious pride, by telling stories of a divine origin and a glorified past (as Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman assert in THE BIBLE UNEARTHED).
– For the New Testament, that purpose was to instruct a community of believers in matters of morality and salvation, by syncretistically blending a tradition of a spiritual Redeemer Son of God with the ethical preaching of a diverse and sprawling wisdom movement through a process of midrash on scripture (as Earl Doherty capably argues in THE JESUS PUZZLE).

 
 
 
 
 

 Paranoid Android says:

 June 20, 2016 at 1:09 am
 

@Ligniappe With respect…
Satan told God what he was going to do to Job and God said OK.
 That is like a murderer admitting his crime to the police BEFORE going and committing it.
 If the police do nothing to prevent it – then they are complicit in the crime.
 As guilty as the perpetrator.
 What particularly stinks in the story of Job is how the whole exercise in torturing this poor man is all for the sake of God’s ego.
 Just how needy and pathetic is this version of god?
 He would allow such suffering just for an: ‘I love you… no really. .. I do…’
And typical of these all powerful beings to think that some replacement offspring will do the job. ..for Job.
 I have children. They could never be replaced.
 They are unique.
 The god of the old testament is an insecure, violent, sadistic tyrant.
 He endorses genocide, murder, slavery, rape, butchery -all for the sake of his unpronounceable name.
 The god of the new testament, I. E. GOD 2.0 The Reboot. is just as cruel, but in a more insidious way.
 Watching his son be tortured and die.
 Watching 1st century Christian be tortured and die.
 Watching 2000 years of mankind torture eachother and die.
 Watching his heavenly army kill billions of humans at armageddon.
 Watching mankind build a new society over 1000 years.
 Just to…
Watch a released and enraged devil wreck it all again.
 Before finally. ..
 Killing a few more billion humans.

He sure has a penchant for violent voyeurism.
 How’s that for bagging God?

Reply
 
 

 dee2 says:

 June 20, 2016 at 8:52 am
 

@ligniappe:
“As for your comments dee2 if you can cherry pick and take matters out of context we all can do that.”
If you were in fact to read the context of Job chapter 14 starting from verse 1, it would be clear that Job denied the idea of life after death.
There are also other scriptures in which Job also denies the idea of life after death, including:
– Job 7:7-10
– Job 16:22
So it is debatable whether Job actually believed in the resurrection.
Reply
 

 Winston Smith says:

 June 20, 2016 at 4:15 pm
 

To add to these comments, I’d like to say that the Creator is being maligned by these perceptions: perceiving that he condoned torture of the righteous man Job, the brutal slayings of the Amalekites and their children, the killing of 70,000 innocents to “punish” King David, etc. The perception that these acts are sanctioned and perpetrated by the Creator malign his good nature and as James wrote: “with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he try anyone.” So how can the contradiction be resolved? By logically rejecting premises that do not fit. Any parent who treated his children the way God does in the OT would be locked up and they’d throw away the key. Therefore the doings cannot be attributed to a loving Creator. They must be relagated as man’s actions or to superstitious people trying to find a reason for why bad things happen.
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 

 GEM says:

 June 20, 2016 at 1:26 am
 

In 1974 I worked part time at Harborne University in Birmingham (UK) in the early hours. My Pioneer partner and I measured with a puck, the fissuring of proton particles, on a Pool size table, and in a sterile room full of computers the size of those seen in episodes of Flash Gordon (or, was it Buck Rogers?).
Fast forward almost 40 years to 2012, I found myself in the Scottish Exhibition Centre in Glasgow, in a packed auditorium full of Professional colleagues. I was full of WT skepticism, having long left behind my trust in this or any other religious body as the mouthpiece of “god”.
The Keynote speaker was Professor Brian Cox, OBE (other bugger’s efforts?), who gave a fascinating breakdown of recent discoveries from CERN and the Hadron Collider and the Noble discovery of the Higgs Boson Particle.
Quite what this had to do with my branch of Medicine, I don’t know…but, it was a climax of over a life time of wondering what I was achieving in that lonely sterile room in 1974.
Prof. Cox is more than a little liberal with his language and mockery of those who believe in Extra Terrestrial life and suddenly he announced at full crescendo that he was sad to inform us all that …..”We are quite alone”..in this vast Universe.
My Catholic companion muttered under his breath…”yeh,…right”. We haven’t scratched the surface of what lays beyond yet. Our computers are locked into SETI, in firm belief that one day there will be “first contact”.
Call it what you will, “God”, Creator, Laboratory Technician.
I cannot subscribe to the assertion that there is lack of Order and Purpose in this/these universe/(s).
I subscribe to the humility to that Eminent scientist, who water surfed that pebble and declared that we have only scratched the surface of a fascinating and intriguing story.
Reply
 
 

 James Broughton says:

 June 20, 2016 at 4:31 am
 

I agree with Chris when he says “I think this article is a really well balanced attempt to demonstrate the flaws in JW theology.” This is why I find the RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY requirement so difficult, especially when we are debating the JW interpretation of the Bible. True, there are other websites, as indicated in the links, which attempt to give a Christian response to the JWs, but the beauty of JW survey is that it does allow people to express their doubts and debate with others. I thought this week’s article was one of the best ever, a welcome relief from the UK referendum debate.
Reply
 

 John Redwood says:

 June 20, 2016 at 10:10 am
 

Thanks James
One of the most difficult tasks we have is to write about JW issues while attempting to remain religiously neutral. We are often stuck between religion and reason, and our comments can be interpreted as an attack on religion in general, when in fact we seek to analyze JW teachings in the light of human rights and reality.
If a JW reads the analysis of the story of Job. he or she may well be offended, since it appears to be an attack on the Bible. Perhaps it is, if the person subscribes to the belief that these events actually happened (which is a JW requirement). But for other Christians who view the story in a figurative way, they will likely understand the points made.
There is no question that we often face this dilemma when discussing JW issues, as Biblical interpretation is more often than not at the core of so many controversial Witness practices
Reply
 

 yawn says:

 June 20, 2016 at 10:34 am
 

One can interpret the criticism as aimed at the writers of the bible, rather than the supreme being they are supposedly representing. The writers had an agenda, just as WT does now. That doesn’t mean its gods agenda. Thats a huge thing to just accept. So criticism of scripture does not necessarily equate to an attack on god, anymore than criticism of the governing body is an attack on god. Both claim to speak for/represent god. Why can I test the governing body but not the bible writers?
Reply
 

 John Redwood says:

 June 20, 2016 at 10:58 am
 

Yawn
Your comment is fascinating, as you question the inspiration of the Bible writers. May I ask, where do you draw the line and accept that a Bible writer has crossed the boundary from inspiration from God into personal interpretation? What is your criteria for this determination?
If the Bible writers had an agenda, how can you believe any of its books and verses?
Would you exist as a Christian if the Bible had never been written?
Do you currently refer to scripture when defending or supporting your beliefs?
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 Cherie says:

 June 20, 2016 at 6:09 am
 

The point that hit home for me is how the “hope” of paradise hijacks the natural grieving process. This was painfully true in my case. We live in a death-phobic society to begin with. Grieving is a healthy recovery process and to repress it can have serious, long-reaching emotional effects. In my case, it took serious work in therapy to finally be able to grieve the loss of both of my parents, heal and move forward in my life. I suffered from intense depression and anger issues. My parents were both inactive for years. My mom went back for a while after my grandmother died, but that resurrection hope wasn’t enough to keep her there. She died inactive and her spiritual state was “in question.” After my mom died, my dad went back and was a “hard core” witness until his death three years later. I went through my own “hard core” phase after my dad’s death, but faded out because I didn’t like the effect it had on me. It was making me very rigid in my thinking. My first two years out were very lonely, but then my life started to bloom. I can’t imagine being part of this cult that produces propaganda like this.
Reply
 

 Lemony Snicket says:

 June 20, 2016 at 3:11 pm
 

This is something I find dealing with JW relatives in the face of tragedy or death. The JW says, “people get so lost in their grief” but it is natural. They’ve even morphed their funerals into a stoic ritual devoid of any natural expressions of grief. An elder stands void of any facial emotion and reads off a litany of scriptures after a bland reading of a persons birth, biography and greatest achievement as a Witness. Compare that to other ceremonies where persons can freely express their emotions and celebration of individual’s life–how the
 deceased person’s manner of carrying themselves and acts of humanity and charity touched and changed them.

And, if JW songs for meetings are depressing, the ones chosen for funerals are nurturing suicidal tendencies. Psalms 30:5.
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 June 20, 2016 at 3:35 pm
 

Lemony Snickets,
I love your comments. You hit the nail on the head, please keep commenting.
I noticed that “born-ins” have a lot of work to do to undo the frame of reference thats instilled into them, i.e. their view of the “world & worldly people” and your right, it takes one “worldly” person to behave badly to trigger the minds responses that come with the upbringing. I suppose it’s like taking 1 step forward then 2 steps back when trying to move forward.
I find it hard enough to undo the damage & I got converted around the age of 29. I just try hard to remember my life before the cult & draw on that frame of reference to normalise my thinking patterns again.
Reply
 
 
 
 

 rob says:

 June 20, 2016 at 8:25 am
 

The job video is carefully designed to manipulate people’s emotions, pull on their heartstrings and finally leave them with a feeling that all is ok, if, and only if, you negate everything other than the confines of the “mothership”.
We all love a happy ending and desire the closure of a happy ending. The job video delivers.
Again, I must give credit to the “powers that be” in this religion as they are masters at manipulation and control. Many witnesses will leave the assembly feeling that false sense of security for being a part of the organization.
Little do they know that they are just pawns being used to supplement the cushy lifestyles of a few men in New York who live off the backs of the rank and file.
Reply
 
 

 dee2 says:

 June 20, 2016 at 9:18 am
 

@Dwc:
“He did not say only Jehovah’s witnesses will be saved. Joel does say all who call on the name of Jehovah/YHWH/LORD will be saved.”
I do not think that it is appropriate to apply Joel to the second coming of Jesus Christ.
To the Old Testament writers, such as Joel, “the day of the Lord (Yahweh)” would be a day of massive devastation and destruction (Joel 1:15 , Joel 2:1, Joel 3:14), but I know of no text where this term – “day of the Lord (Yahweh)” – was used in reference to a second coming of a Messiah/Jesus Christ.
 The prophets of old did not speak of a second coming of the Messiah. That the Messiah would come into the world but then have to come again is a New Testament idea. So I do not think that it is appropriate to apply Joel to the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Further, even if Joel could be applied to the second coming of Jesus Christ, would the non-Christians such as Hindus, Buddhist, Taoists, Muslims, Jains, Drudes etc. know the name of Jehovah/YHWH/LORD in order to call upon it to be saved?
Reply
 

 JBob says:

 June 20, 2016 at 3:16 pm
 

Just to throw a monkey wrench into this logic, but I thought all who believed in someone and His name would have eternal life (John 3:17, 18). Now maybe the NWT translators missed a beat, but I don’t see YHWH or YHVH anywhere in that verse.
Reply
 
 
 

 Outandabout says:

 June 20, 2016 at 4:12 pm
 

Propaganda doesn’t even need to be that elaborate to work, so long as you have a willing audience. I can just imagine the conversation between Russell and his Bible Students after the touted physical return of Jesus failed.
Students: “hey Charles!, where’s Jesus!?
Russell: “he’s here… but.. um.. he’s invisible”
Students: “what!!!?, how dumb do you think we are!?
Russell: “DUMB ENOUGH FOR ME!
Students: “oh…..ok….well what do we do now?
And he’s been here for over 100yrs of his supposed 1000yr rule and so far he’s doing a lousy job.
Reply
 
 

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23 Responses to Videos

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
 

With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
 
 

 george says:

 August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
 

Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
 
 

 Luke says:

 October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
 

Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
 cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
 will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.

Reply
 
 

 Fred says:

 November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
 

Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
 
 

 Palma says:

 February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
 

Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
 I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
 What do you think?
http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
 
 

 Idris says:

 March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
 

Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
 Keep up the good work

Reply
 
 

 Julia Orwell says:

 July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
 

Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
 I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.

Reply
 
 

 frankie fernandez says:

 February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 

dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
 

Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
 He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.

Reply
 
 

 Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:

 February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
 

Tell the police.
Reply
 
 
 

 Kirtley W. Burggraf says:

 March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
 

Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
 
 

 Alone in MD says:

 March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 

Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
 
 

 frankie fernandez says:

 May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
 

IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
 
 

 pj wilcox says:

 July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
 

I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
 
 

 Adrian says:

 September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
 

I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
 
 

 Rick Viger says:

 November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
 

Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
 I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.

Reply
 
 

 S.T. says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
 

I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
 
 

 Paul says:

 April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
 

Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
 
 

 ian York says:

 April 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm
 

It is hard to fathom how anybody could believe in the legitimacy of Watchtower’s claim to be God’s only organization on earth today when considering it started with the likes if this oaf. One would have to have a belief in predestination, an unscriptural concept, in order to square the circle of the now regarded apostate beliefs if the founder members and today’s dogma.
Reply
 
 

 Abby says:

 May 10, 2016 at 2:51 am
 

After pioneering for over a decade, I wondered where the GB got the 70 hours requirement. Did Jesus or the 12 Apostles count time? Honestly, I feel enslaved. Hmmm. I grateful to Yahowah for helping me discover this site. The stress is too burdensome for me. OMG We have been taught in the watchtower that when we revenge, we are being presumptuous is DF not presumptuousness? Let’s look at it this way. When you commit a grievous sin, who do you offend, God or elders? Is shunning not a way of doing Yahowah’s work for him. I just learnt that JW’s don’t bury dfd people. This is heart breaking. I call this rennaissance period for any one who wishes to wake up. Jephtah’s case is an eye opener, I had to confirm that from my book of bible stories, story 53. Hmmmm.
Reply
 

 peely says:

 May 31, 2016 at 2:11 pm
 

Hi Abby,
 Yes, we know disfellowshiped ones are considered as good as dead.

John 16:2 – “They will put you out of (meaning of Greek is “excommunicate”) the synagogue (“congregation”); in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills (“figuratively or literally”) you will think they are offering a service to God.” (to keep the congregation clean)
“They will do these things because they haven’t known the Father or Me. But I have told you these things so that when their time comes you may remember I told them to you. I didn’t tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.” John 16:3,4
“I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. You will have suffering in this world. Be courageous! I have conquered the world.” John 16:33
 I always wonder why the decision to go ahead of every other bible rendition and take out the possibly spurious John 8:1-11 Leaving it in the NWT would blow a hole in the disfellowshiping doctrine. On the organization’s website, I cannot even find a reference to those scriptures.

From the symbolic book of Revelation: “He was permitted to give a spirit to the image (organization) of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed” (Rev 13:15)
Reply
 
 
 

 Paul says:

 May 28, 2016 at 4:14 am
 

Your professional presentation and factually is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your fine effort and tirelessness.
Reply
 
 

 Paul says:

 June 5, 2016 at 12:36 am
 

Bravo
Reply
 
 

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The Worst Convention Ever – Part 4: Propaganda Movies
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Posted on June 18, 2016

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For decades, Jehovah’s Witnesses have attended yearly multi-day assemblies, often sitting through scorching heat, fighting off sleep, attempting to take notes during an onslaught of talk after talk, all the while secretly praying for the end to come. No, not … Continue reading →

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NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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Posted on June 11, 2016

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The FAQ section on JW.org has added a new featured post: “Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?” In this NEW article dated June 9th 2016, the Watchtower gives their official explanation of how to handle matters … Continue reading →

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The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Doubts
Posted on June 10, 2016

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Like myself, my wife was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and has always loved reading. When she was around 7 years old, she was reading through a science book and came across a chart detailing the evolution of the horse through … Continue reading →

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The Worst Convention Ever – Part 3: Sergei’s Story
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Posted on June 7, 2016

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“The way of the truth is the best way of living.” So begins Kingdom Song 64, “Make the Truth Your Own.” This mantra is one with which Jehovah’s Witnesses are very familiar. In fact, it’s quite common to hear the mantra … Continue reading →

133 Comments
 

The Worst Convention Ever – Part 2: The Bunker
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Posted on June 4, 2016

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By now, you may have already seen what have become known as the “Bunker” videos shown during the 2016 Regional convention. The films are centred around a small group of Witnesses huddled in a basement converted into a makeshift bunker, … Continue reading →

179 Comments
 

The Friday Column: What it means to be a Jehovah’s Witness
Posted on June 2, 2016

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There’s been a lot of buzz lately surrounding the new video release from JW.org featuring the characters “Caleb and Sophia.” The video series is called “Be Jehovah’s Friend” and aims to indoctrinate children into the Witness religion. Watchtower has obviously watched … Continue reading →

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The Worst Convention Ever – Part 1: Shunning
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Posted on June 2, 2016

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This summer millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide will flock to their regional conventions, a much-anticipated event in the JW calendar. Local newspapers are already lining up to write articles lauding the influx of Witnesses at sports venues and convention centers. … Continue reading →

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News Bulletin: Watchtower tightens shunning rules to include “sinful” inactive ones.
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Posted on May 28, 2016

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Rumours have been flying about in recent weeks that Watchtower might be changing its shunning policy for the worse at the 2016 Regional Conventions entitled “Remain Loyal to Jehovah.” We at JW Survey had been aware of these rumours, and … Continue reading →

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The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
Posted on May 27, 2016

Jehovah's Witness Leadership - Girls need not apply
From JW Survey contributor Brooke No girls allowed – a common theme throughout my childhood; raised with all older boy cousins, I had to learn to stick up for myself. I fought tooth and nail for my spot in the video game room, just to watch them play. Just to feel like a … Continue reading →

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Update: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 26, 2016

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Last Friday, we put up an article opening the doors to submissions from you, our readers. We have had a number of excellent submissions since then, covering a wide variety of topics. On behalf of the entire JW Survey team, … Continue reading →

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The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 20, 2016

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Would you like to help make a difference? We are looking to expand our voluntary writing team in order to keep pace with the increasing amount of Watchtower related news stories, and also to keep pace with our growing community … Continue reading →

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Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans
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Posted on May 19, 2016

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Earlier this month I had an opportunity to finally meet Covert Fade and John Redwood in person during a trip to London. Shortly after shaking hands for the first time, John surprised me with my very own Telly Award in … Continue reading →

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News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention
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Posted on May 19, 2016

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Astonishing footage has recently emerged showing a Dutch reporter being thrown out of a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses simply for asking basic questions about the Witnesses stance on homosexuality. You can view the video below, with English subtitles and an … Continue reading →

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