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No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
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Posted on July 16, 2016
When it comes the the Governing Body's travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
When it comes the the Governing Body’s travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
Earlier today, JWsurvey was contacted by an airline employee based at a major European airport who was willing to give a remarkable insight into the lavish lifestyle of Governing Body members.
Though this won’t come as a surprise to many, it turns out GB members DO travel business class at the expense of ordinary Witnesses.
Our contact, who I will call Paula, is a recently-awakened Jehovah’s Witness. For the purpose of protecting her identity and shielding her from punitive action we are withholding a number of key details. However, I can confirm JWsurvey has received proof corroborating Paula’s story.
Paula had an unexpected encounter with a Governing Body member while he was on a stop-over to a destination in Africa. She immediately recognised the GB member when he asked her when boarding would commence.
Noticing that the GB member was flying business class, Paula couldn’t resist checking his flight details on the airport system to see how much his ticket had cost. It turns out he and his wife were flying for approximately $4,500 each for a combined cost of $9,000 – all of which will have come straight out of contributions for the “worldwide work.”
Paula has disclosed the destination the GB member was flying to, and suggested an economy ticket on the same route with the same airline would cost around $1000. I have checked the airline’s website when preparing this article and, indeed, a single economy ticket to the same location from New York (flying in September) can cost as little as $930.92.
It would be fair to conclude from this story that, for the sake of their own comfort, Governing Body members are routinely travelling at quadruple what the cost would be if they were to demonstrate the humility and self-sacrifice they demand of rank and file Witnesses.
And you can be sure that, when it comes to deciding on whether the “faithful and discreet slave” should fly business class rather than economy, even if this means dipping deeper into dedicated funds, the final decision rests with the very ones who stand to benefit from the more lavish, exorbitant option.
Watchtower released a cartoon encouraging children to part with their ice cream money to bolster organization funds
Watchtower released a cartoon encouraging children to part with their ice cream money to bolster organization funds
So far there have been two instances of a Governing Body member, i.e. Stephen Lett, pleading for more contributions on JW Broadcasting to assist with Watchtower’s “projicks.” A Caleb-and-Sophia cartoon has even been produced encouraging young children to part with their ice cream money for the sake of “kingdom interests.”
Hard-working Witnesses the world over are, it seems, being taken for fools. They would do well to contemplate whether they really want to keep sending donations when these are being so readily squandered by a group of men who are happy to pick the pockets of children (and people who they have mostly deprived of a decent education) just so they can stretch their legs at 30,000 feet.
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Further reading…
◾Article on Stephen Lett begging for money on JW Broadcasting
◾Article on Caleb and Sophia cartoon asking for ice cream money
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269 Responses to No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
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Jake says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:11 pm
This is really a great info to inform the JW families, but did she took any pic? it would be great to talk with the evidence or it dont have any value to talk with the spiritually blinded JW’s.
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Cedars says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:17 pm
We can’t give evidence without the person jeopardising their job I’m afraid.
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Carlos Gaio says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:39 pm
I wish you could provide proof of this, so I can slap some JW’s faces. Sadly, without proof nobody will believe it.
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Cedars says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:41 pm
It would indeed be nice to make proof public, but I don’t see that this is an unbelievable story – at least for most JWsurvey readers.
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Eric Arthur Blair says:
July 17, 2016 at 5:51 am
There’s plenty of other anecdotal evidence also. Notwithstanding the bling the seven dwarves were wearing in their initial broadcasts, when we had the international convention here in Melbourne (Australia) in 2014, I know for a fact that Stephen Lett and his helper (Liciadelo I think his name is?) and their wives were staying at the Crown Resort, which (despite being a casino) is luxury accommodation. I know this because one of our local elders and his wife were bragging that they met up with them for a meal one evening, along with others. I wonder who paid for the meals, because they aren’t cheap either. Maybe the brown nosers took care of them that night, but ALL their travel costs are all covered by the brotherhood either way. It’s not like these guys hold down regular jobs.
Tim hord says:
July 16, 2016 at 7:29 pm
I’d she this to my wife shed call it apostate propaganda. No solid proof.
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Niels Lundgreen says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:27 am
Hej Tim Hord,
Tell your wife that this is not the only or the last one.
Ask her if she would like to tell you about the two 12 cylinder Cadillac.https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/205994/how-were-rutherfords-cadillacs-purchased?size=10&page=5
Who is saying, that he could not do or did not do? I say, he did and he had.
“Berta was a friend of RutherfordÂ’s personal secretary Bonnie Boyd … Rutherford already had a qualified dietician at Bethel, yet Berta …”http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TVF2BJG0J7UJSL589
I do not say he did not or should not, but I say; he did.
So, what is the problem? Think about it. Go to see a Charlie Chaplin movie and you will understand the situation among small citizens in USA at that time.
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Molly Miller says:
July 16, 2016 at 7:50 pm
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/theocratic-warfare-lying.php
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Mitch Jensen says:
July 16, 2016 at 10:42 pm
John in all fairness we had to beg our Circuit to donate enough money to pay our basic bills. JWs have no problem spending large amounts of money on their personal luxuries but when it came to giving to the Organization very few would would donate funds. Watch John Oliver’s sickening Expose on Televangelist and realize the Governing Body are not Crooks and do not rip their members off for one or two $100 Million Dollar Jets.
I stand by my statements because after helping with the books I know how hard we had to beg and plead just to make our Annual payments. One area the majority of Witnesses are not guilty of is being generous with their monies to help the Watchtower Society. How come TV Preachers can get 100 Times the Donations JWs give?
JWs are marketing their product to the lowest demographics of Society, when you preach a message most educated people dismiss as nonsense your left with a large group of Minimum Wage Religious Zealots who can’t pay their own bills lest the Organization’s.
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Markie says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Always thought they flew first class. I guess they are making a sacrifice flying business class. But remember if they ever get their asses kicked out they leave with nothing.
I got a higher education and never really donated more then $200 a year in the years past. For the past 10 to 15 years or so I have given nothing. I figured they didn’t want money from a dude with advanced degrees. Doing you think it is possible they got upgrades from frequent flyer miles?
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Cedars says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:21 pm
On this occasion, the price of the ticket was directly verified on the airline system.
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sweetyj says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:32 pm
I usually don’t post here but I had to comment on this one. I don’t know how many gb have a wife or not but let’s say that all 7 have a wife each traveling business class for $4,500 each. That would be a total of $126,000 for one trip if all 14 people traveled together. Now let’s say that they make an average of 10 trips per year flying business class. That’s a total of $1,260,000 per year just on traveling business class. And my mom just gave the org $10 during our # worst convention ever. Kids please keep your ice cream money. I know I will.
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Markie says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:51 pm
But think of all the spiritual food they are going to share with those poor African brothers. When you think of it that way $9,000 is not a lot. Yes of course it could probably feed a whole village for a year but with out the fine spiritual fest provided by our dear GB member feeding them would only provide a short term benefit. Imagine if he couldn’t impress upon them the importance of relying on Jehovah.
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Sonja Talkington says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:55 pm
Love you!
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Jake says:
July 16, 2016 at 1:10 pm
You mean the spiritual JUNK food?.. Yes all JW like that junk food not aware of losing their spiritual health.. Poor brothers
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silentlamb1980 says:
July 17, 2016 at 7:41 am
I am pretty sure that these communites in Africa would rather have real food Markie than imaginary food.
Wake up!
They are using your money for themselves. If they truly were following in the footsteps of Christ, then they would be taking a vow of poverty, and would fly at economic rates.
They are wolves in sheeps clothing. Be careful.
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Markie says:
July 17, 2016 at 9:59 am
I guess you didn’t understand the sarcasm in my post.
Miranda Presley says:
July 17, 2016 at 11:23 am
I’m pretty sure Markie was being sarcastic…
silentlamb1980 says:
July 18, 2016 at 3:21 am
Doh!….. I missed the sarcasm oops sorry.
When you have been dealing with comments on youtube and other forums it’s hard to distinguish between the sarcasm and an actual JW talking. I am sure my comment will help someone else though, maybe? I don’t know, let Lloyd decide.
fallingangel75 says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:23 pm
Ugh! Just ugh! I wish I could tell everyone I know and love who’s still in. And be believed. And have it matter and/or make a difference to them.
Many of those with blinders on would see this as apostate lies or make up some reason in their own minds why it is a justifiable expenditure.
Some would probably even see it as evidence of Jehovah’so blessing, rewarding them for their years of faithful service and self-sacrifice, I’m afraid.
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Cedars says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:25 pm
Yes, it’s by no means a deal-breaker for the sufficiently indoctrinated, but it helps paint a picture of just how hypocritical the Governing Body really are.
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nullandvoidboy says:
July 16, 2016 at 1:37 pm
@Lloyd,
Yeah…for those still in a coma, it will mean nothing….as stated, they’ll say, “at least they’re not taking first class”…of course they’re not googling the cost of these flights…economy vs business class….I would love to see the looks on a few faces, if they were able to see the price difference, while watching the ice cream money moment cartoon….I think I see cognitive dissonance flair up’s within the rank and file, if they would come across this info.
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Oubliette says:
July 17, 2016 at 7:59 am
Sure, anyone still drinking the kool-aid would just say, “It’s photoshopped!” or “It’s a lie from Satan!”
It’s amazing that an indoctrinated person will accept the flimsiest evidence that confirms their beliefs while rejecting substantial evidence that refutes them.
Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance at their bets.
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Darth Fader says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:29 pm
Executives of large multi national corporations like watchtower commonly travel business class for business purposes, however if their spouse travels with them they normally pay for that ticket themselves not the corporation. The watchtower is really no different than any other business with the exception of being a pseudo religious 19th century mind control doomsday death cult.
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fallingangel75 says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:59 am
I have much the same problem with any executives who live fabulously and extravagantly while cutting jobs and refusing to pay a living wage to the majority of their employees. However most of them do have the ‘decency’ to do it in the name of capitalism and not in the name of God.
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Naima says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:30 pm
Interesting but really not surprising at all.
I served in a Bethel in an East African country and know for a fact that the American Branch Office coordinator always flies business class. ..but he and his wife say they are upgraded from their frequent flyer miles.
He also serves as a Headquarter’s Representative aka Zone Overseer and therefore flies often.
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Paul Watson says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:33 pm
I guess the question is how it was funded. I know it’s quite common for circuit overseers to be given ‘gifts’ when they visit congregations, would it be similar for the governing body to be given them too? Could the tickets have been upgraded as a gift from a wealthy witness?
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Cedars says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:36 pm
The tickets weren’t “upgraded.” They were bought.
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Oubliette says:
July 17, 2016 at 8:23 am
This is an important fact!
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M says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:34 pm
Ha!
I keep posting the same lame comment.
“It’s only July and I’ve used up my allotment of ‘appalling” for the whole year.
At this point in time, it appears as though I have more “appallings” going out than coming in. 🙂
In fairness, at least Joel Osteen preaches a gospel of prosperity, takes no salary, and is rich because of the books he’s written and put out into the marketplace where people are free to buy, or not buy, them. (not to be construed with me endorsing Pastor J.O.)
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fallingangel75 says:
July 17, 2016 at 11:03 am
I agree. I do not endorse him either, but he’s pretty up front and unapologetic about it being a money-making business. He also does not claim that what he’s selling is the only true path to God or salvation. I respect that.
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Imacountrygirl says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:37 pm
Why does this not come as a surprise?
I have previously said “Follow the $$$$$$$”.
Hide your wallets, purses, arms, legs, first-borns, etc.
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Tony Pruett says:
July 16, 2016 at 12:47 pm
Of course. Surprised?
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Chad Willis says:
July 16, 2016 at 1:19 pm
Wow! unbelievable you would think that information like this would cause outrage, but we will just be called fault finders and they will say I’m sure there was a good reason for it. The question is, is this the norm? If so I can’t imagine the rank and file being a little upset by this waste of funds.
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Separated From The Flock says:
July 16, 2016 at 1:57 pm
Not surprised at all. The GB members had lavish accommodations at Bethel (based on what I saw some years ago) so first class travel fits in nicely. It must be exhausting serving up all that spiritual food so I am sure it is deserved 😉
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Jaak says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:52 pm
Can you tell us something more about the accommodations they have at Bethel? My brother says they have the exact same room as the regular workers.
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Separated From The Flock says:
July 16, 2016 at 7:22 pm
I was there over 30 years ago. From the glimpse I was provided I saw spectacular views of the New York skyline, larger rooms, and much nicer furniture than the newbies had. A decent apt in Brooklyn Heights with a view of NYC was not cheap then or now.
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
July 16, 2016 at 7:28 pm
I can tell you about the rooms that those with 30 years of full time service had while I was in Brooklyn. Top floor, Manhattan skyline views from their triple sized rooms complere with sunken living areas and antique furniture. They were a far cry from the dormitories with communal bathrooms that the rest of the new boys shared. At least the group showers were done away with after the “outbreak” of homosexuality in the 1980’s. Ha!
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Gameisover says:
July 17, 2016 at 7:01 am
Before it used to be by senority. They had better rooms, much better ones.
Now it’s JOB before seniority.
Their executive appointment trumps any seniority. Some in the GB have less seniority than many at Bethel. Yet they get the best of everything. Like it should be in a corporation, which it is!
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Miranda Presley says:
July 17, 2016 at 11:49 am
Yes, this is what I was recently told aa well, that friends who were working at Warwick said they had the same rooms as everyone else. I find that hard to believe…
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John Redwood says:
July 19, 2016 at 10:32 am
Jaak
The Bethel accommodations vary by building, particularly in Brooklyn. While there have been no reported scandals involving large Trump style luxury suites for the upper level Watchtower officials, there is absolutely a pecking order for rooms. There are very cramped 4 men rooms with no bathroom (shared in the hallway) there are also very nice 2 person rooms, some larger than others, which would cost hundreds of thousands or more if they were sold on the open market. The general manner in which rooms are doled out rests on their seniority system. There is a bidding process each year, and instead of money they use years of “full time service” as the currency by which they bid on rooms. The more years in the pioneer or other full time work, the better the chance at a high quality, larger room. If someone moves into Bethel with many more years of full time service to the organization, a newer resident may lose his or her room.
As for the interior of the rooms, some of them are simple but breathtaking when you add the views over the East River and the New York Skyline. I have been in many of these rooms, and I can assure you that while some are small, they are very nice. Be assured that members of the Branch Committee, the Governing Body and their helpers, and other senior members do indeed have some of the nicest rooms in Brooklyn. Governing Body members also keep rooms in other locations, such as Patterson, but they allow visiting missionaries to use these rooms when needed. I have personally stayed in one of the Governing Body member’s rooms in Patterson. It was a 2 bedroom suite with a very large walk in closet, with a small bathroom and very very small kitchenette.
JR
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Paul says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:04 pm
Jesus went on foot or on a borrowed donkey. The GB live a life of luxury that the majority of their members can only dream of.
This just adds to the already plainly evident hypocrisy of the elitist group who are lording it over their flock, drinking in the adoration and fame as they hop around the world squandering the donations of the mostly poor to middle class followers that they control via their indoctrination sessions.
Not at all the picture of the humble leader that they claim to follow and be selected by. More proof that they are imposters and con men.
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Tim hord says:
July 16, 2016 at 7:33 pm
Probably 90% of rank & file even know about the disparity between accommodations.
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Bad Penny says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:06 pm
No surprise here!
The GB are treated like Gods. Only the best will do. They are the official spokesmen for ‘Jehovah’, the ‘sovereign of the universe’. You would not expect them to travel with ordinary folk would you?
The irony is that Jesus had nowhere to lay his head. He was humble and kind. He also said there is more happiness in giving than in receiving.
All I see is hypocrisy from the magnificent seven who have no quarms about spending and wasting the brothers money. No humility here, no real love or empathy. Just take, take, take.
Surely, they are having their reward in full.
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Thinking of leaving says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:28 pm
(1Q)I’m just curious if anyone knows but do the lower and middle representatives get the same perks. For example let’s say the borg wanted the expertise of a brother who resided in the German bethel to move to the USA. He was just a new entry ordinary bethelite but had the skills. Would he get the same treatment.
(2Q)I’m just wondering because of all the flying they do if the get some kind of substantial discount of the retail price. That perhaps the person working at the airport may not be aware of or privey to.
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Gameisover says:
July 17, 2016 at 7:07 am
Q1: No
Q2: Each one has their own frequent flyer miles. They are not collective
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Bad Penny says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:30 pm
Oh, and when they come down from the skies in their beautiful silver bird, and they ‘visit’ the poor African brothers who have to choose between mending the hole in their corrugated roof or a meal for the family!
I ask, how do they sleep at night?
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Twmack says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:38 pm
Good to get this eye witness account, but haven’t
we known for a long time how the R&F have been
bilked by these hustlers.
The Godfather, Rutherford, taught them well.
With his 12 room mansion, well stocked with imported
booze, not to mention 2, 16 cylinder Cadillacs
complete with a gun toting chauffeur.
As has been stated some will never be moved,
whatever the strength of the evidence, but others
will, or we wouldn’t be here commenting.
So it is worthwhile getting the info out there.
Good work Lloyd.
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Thinking of leaving says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:47 pm
(3Q)Just saddens me to think of all those people they laid off practically penny less, destitute and at the mercy of the brothers and sisters to care for them. While they fly around the world business class. The below, you tube clip by Marcus Vaughn just upsets me to think these tight bastards they sent him a bill for some extra food he hadhttps://youtu.be/Uk1xh1EGJcU
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Kate says:
July 16, 2016 at 4:35 pm
In the early 1970s, before I graduated from high school and started pioneering, a friend and I would attend the meeting for those interested in going to Bethel at the summer conventions–even though we were girls and had no chance of going there. I very clearly remember the “brother” giving the talk at those meetings saying that those who desire to go to Bethel should plan on making it their life’s work. Although they requested a shorter actual commitment, they really wanted people who would plan to go there for the rest of their lives.
How disloyal of the organization to, sometimes when these people at Bethel had gotten past the age of being able to successfully start over, kick them out!
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ScotWm says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:17 am
Regarding: “…those who desire to go to Bethel should plan on making it their life’s work.”
Even after Sammy Herd announced the layoff of around 20% of Bethel slaves, the Governing Body is still actively recruiting replacement slaves. Young ones are encouraged to institutionalize themselves at Bethel:
After the resent layoff of nearly 5000 older, used up Bethelites, “…about 19,500 individuals now enjoy the privilege of Bethel service.”
“Because of the nature of the work at Bethel, those accepted for this privilege of service must be physically strong and in good health. If you meet the qualifications that we have mentioned, are 19 years of age or older, and have been baptized for at least one year, we encourage you to consider Bethel service.”
The prospect of being thrown out on the street in your old age, penniless and with no marketable job skills, is not mentioned in the Bethel recruiting page:
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001205
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Kate says:
July 16, 2016 at 2:53 pm
Thanks Lloyd. Another great example of how the GB live one kind of life while expecting the rank-and-file to keep sacrificing. For example, the couple in one of the convention videos who decided that even though they were pioneering, they were living too nice a lifestyle and downsized. ( And thank you for your great coverage of those, by the way! )
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Kate says:
July 16, 2016 at 3:04 pm
An example from my past, that completely drove me crazy at the time, was a talk given by the circuit overseer at our kingdom hall. He was stressing the importance of going out in field service both Saturday and Sunday, because why would we want to take a day off from Jehovah. Also he said that the organization had to fight hard for the right to go out on Sunday in many places and we should respect that effort by using that day for field service. My thought at the time was, I just worked five days and went to two midweek meetings, preparing for both, sometimes preparing a talk or demonstration, and then went out on field service on Saturday. I also had to prepare for the Watchtower study and attend the meeting on Sunday. Why do I also have to go out in field service that day? I’m exhausted.
So perhaps you can understand how annoyed I was when I found out that this “brother” routinely took Mondays off to go golfing with the “brothers” at the congregation he would be serving that week.
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Velvia Blue says:
July 16, 2016 at 3:20 pm
Kate you say it so well. My family took the loss while I was trying to pay the rent, look after all the ‘Elder’ responsibilities and give spiritual and emotional support to my wife and children. I can honestly say that I contributed less to the WT than I did to Amnesty International. After all Amnesty took cases of ‘freedom of conscience’ more seriously than WT.
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Chantal says:
July 16, 2016 at 5:46 pm
Oh Kate, your memories are so like mine…. not exact verbage, but same meaning. Always do more, never, never enough what your doing now. So incredibly glad I don’t have to hear that emotional abuse anymore.
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FullyAwake says:
July 16, 2016 at 8:16 pm
This is so true. I recall a C/O reading prepared material by the GB at the elders meeting regarding Sunday service. This was sometime in the 90’s. The material stated that an elders qualifications could be questioned if he regularly failed to support the Sunday service. This happened to one elder that I know of in the congregation I served in. He wasn’t removed but he was harassed about it. His defense was that he chose Saturday for regular service and reserved Sunday for himself and his family. Certainly nothing wrong with that. Another example of nit-picking by the powers that be.
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Andrew Haas says:
July 17, 2016 at 1:14 am
When I was a ministerial servant in the mid 90’s I was threatened a number of times by an elder that firstly my wife’s skirts were too short and on another occasion that I was not in field service often enough on Sunday’s, despite having 3 young children and a wife who suffered from severe depression. On both occasions the threat was that they would remove me as an MS if in the first case, I didn’t get my wife under control and in the second case if I didn’t take the lead in Sunday witnessing. On reflection I should have told him to shove the position. How I would love that opportunity again !!!!
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Gameisover says:
July 17, 2016 at 7:15 am
Many in that position are reading you now! YOU ARE SAYING IT.
Thanks for repeating it. We are all so angry about all the abuses!!
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Kate says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:20 pm
And please note that Sunday wasn’t truly “a day off” because he undoubtedly went with his family to the Sunday meeting.
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Chiafade says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:08 am
That sounds like several CO’s Kate but lets name names. Did that circuit overseer happen to be Sylvester Bennett? Free golf games every Monday sponsored by your local brown nosing elders.
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Kate says:
July 17, 2016 at 1:02 pm
Chiafade: I am sorry but it was so long ago that I can’t remember his name.
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Bob Johnson says:
July 16, 2016 at 3:46 pm
Sanderson and I assume the others have wifi on every flight. Apparently, as he told in the spot on JWB about Brussells, he has to be in “constant” contact.
Also does anyone know anything about the new white Acura (Honda luxury car) someone gave him?
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Freed Mason says:
July 18, 2016 at 6:59 am
Whoa, hold on!! I thought he was in constant “prayerful” contact with the Big Guy like Jesus was??
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Paul Bonanno says:
July 16, 2016 at 3:56 pm
Back in 1996 I have exposed Milton Henschel that when he visited Malta both in 27 – 30th April 1992 and later in 29th April – 3rd May 1996 instead of staying with “brothers” he opted to a 5 star hotel. Durine both visits he never participated in the preaching work but was taken around the Island visiting historical places as a tourist.
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Fooledmeonce says:
July 16, 2016 at 4:11 pm
Wow, great work and thanks for bringing that up again!
I could see JWs justifying flying business class, you know, so many trips all over the world to encourage the friends, but how do you justify staying in 5 Star hotels and not going in the field ministry?!?
What a bunch of religious hypocrites!!! They are the Pharisees that Jesus was warning people about! (Not that I even believe in all that religious stuff anymore. If Jesus was real, and flying around in heaven, they why would this stuff be allowed to continue???)
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Paul Bonanno says:
July 16, 2016 at 4:19 pm
In 1992 visit I was in the same car that Milton Henschel and his wife were in while going around the island.
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Chiafade says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:12 am
Haha I remember that! Didn’t he say “oh a local brother paid for that” trying to play off the hypocrisy of his actions.
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Mandy Greenaway says:
July 16, 2016 at 4:23 pm
Do they try to justify it by staying with brothers and sisters at whatever location they end up or do they have a cushy set of accommodations as well? We’ve always wondered about this. People have always tried to say “oh they don’t fly first class,” but how could anyone actually know. Interesting having some confirmation.
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Oubliette says:
July 16, 2016 at 4:45 pm
Not surprising, but sadly predictable.
Thank you for sharing this with us, Lloyd. These hypocrites need to be exposed for what they are. Is there any way to substantiate this with incontrovertible, physical evidence without exposing the identity of your source?
Let’s review: It’s a cult!
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Cedars says:
July 17, 2016 at 1:35 am
I’m afraid not. It’s a case of an airport employee seeing the information and passing it on to us.
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Oubliette says:
July 17, 2016 at 7:43 am
Oh, well, understood! Thanks for the reply!
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KTMmadBrit says:
July 16, 2016 at 5:05 pm
I can provide details and names of a GB member using a European Bethelite to smuggle a Rolex watch (a ‘gift’) into America to avoid paying USA luxury goods tax. It was in the late nineties.
Even he was a bit shocked but used the story to explain that the GB are ‘realistic’ about the life we ordinary folks face… as if I ever faced a tax bill for a Rolex!!!!
Lying, cheating, stealing leaders like some African banana republic that rip off their citizens. They learn more from Africa than they teach them believe me…and I know!!!!!
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Chantal says:
July 16, 2016 at 5:49 pm
Please do! We would all be interested.
Reply
LetoII says:
July 16, 2016 at 6:53 pm
Is a shame we cant have actual proof of it. It really would be a strong hit against the corruption of the WT. Right now Im trying to find proof of thishttps://jwvictims.org/conventions-kingdom-halls-relief-funds-and-other-financial-scams-and-schemes-of-jehovahs-witnesses/
They talk about how the WT made an affair with Australia for money and they wrote an article about visiting Australia for vacations, the article I have found it. But if we were able to confirm it from an australia turism people, we could really make the JW think about how they are riding the beast.
Reply
sue fointein says:
July 16, 2016 at 8:14 pm
This makes me sick–utterly sick. I know sisters with opposed husbands that refrain from purchasing extra groceries so the funds can go to watchtower.
They are taking food from their children’s mouths to give these elite ones.
Reply
Mama Joy says:
July 16, 2016 at 8:33 pm
Wow! I don’t think the Pope even does that! Shocking and garish!
Reply
Rubadub says:
July 16, 2016 at 11:19 pm
Great timely information Lloyd.
How ironic that we read this the day that The Bunker video’s are being shown at RC’S in my area. Especially the section where the full time Pioneer couple are embarrassed by their previous “comfortable lifestyle “, sell everything so all their possessions fit into a car and move to where the need is greater.
How immensely hypocritical.
Thanks again
Reply
Hakizimana says:
July 16, 2016 at 11:27 pm
How many she-goats need to be sold for the couple to take that travel. I guess these pour Africans will afford getting enough she-goats to sell for their spiritual fathers to travel in business class. In one yearbook we can read:
*** yb02 pp. 44-45 Worldwide Report ***
A ten-year-old boy in northern Rwanda raised a small goat until she gave birth to three little ones. He recently sent a photo of himself and the she-goat to the branch office. In an accompanying letter, he wrote: “Jehovah has blessed me very much, and that is why I am contributing this she-goat to the worldwide preaching work mentioned at Matthew 24:14.” He gave the goat to the congregation elders with the request to sell it. They did so and forwarded the money to the branch.
Reply
Markie says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:07 am
You forgot one thing. In the new system the little boy will receive 70 she-goats and they will be virgin she-goats.
Reply
caltanzee says:
July 17, 2016 at 1:59 am
#This is one of the things that drove the final nail in the coffin for my wife and I.When we decided to quit cold turkey in 2014..There were several reasons that gave us pause after I got on the internet and started doing research about the organization.So many negatives that gave pause.Then we observed that while they preach self sacrifice, which kept us subservient , wallowing in poverty and a meager existence for years.The ones at the top lives luxuriously.Then there was an article in one of the magazine’s not only begging for donations.But soliciting for wills and testimonts.Stocks and bonds etc,etc.The atms at the assemblies, and on and on,the monthly pledges.Then it suddenly dawned on us.Omg!!These people are highly materialistic while conditioning us not to be, and has a HUMOUNGUS real estate portfolio worth billions. Selling and making huge profits.Being so greedy and covetious at what little we have.Our eyes popped wide opened.And we said:Omg!Jehovah! Help us! we’ve been hoodwinked.We got back our critical thinking skills and quit.
Reply
Stardust says:
July 17, 2016 at 2:05 am
This is not a surprise. About two years ago, I was waking up and telling my then [French] wife the things I was finding out about the Watchtower. She, then, told me that, a few years previously, some of the French brothers had found out that a GB member, when visiting Paris, had stayed in one of the best hotels available, rather than, as they had believed, an ordinary 2* or 3*. Although she was shocked at finding this out, and again when telling me, it, sadly, had no other impact in moving her to wake up.
Reply
Joe Smith says:
July 17, 2016 at 2:08 am
With all due respect guys ‘n dolls…………..these blokes are actually “Angels – in – waiting” ……………..surely you can cut them some slack – they are Very Important Princes – soon to be Kings ! In fact they are the most powerful and important men on Earth right now – One of these days they will be riding alongside the Celestial Uber ! And they will be looking down on you [as they already are] and seeing and hearing you posting here on the site! Wooohoooo !Bad Karma coming to you! [I have had too much coffee – sorry ]
Reply
Joe Smith says:
July 17, 2016 at 2:08 am
With all due respect guys ‘n dolls…………..these blokes are actually “Angels – in – waiting” ……………..surely you can cut them some slack – they are Very Important Princes – soon to be Kings ! In fact they are the most powerful and important men on Earth right now – One of these days they will be riding alongside the Celestial Uber ! And they will be looking down on you [as they already are] and seeing and hearing you posting here on the site! Wooohoooo !Bad Karma coming to you! [I have had too much coffee – sorry ]
Reply
exjw says:
July 17, 2016 at 3:12 am
Disgusting . I was awaken 1 year ago and visiting the US seeing the GB on one of the conventions wearing those expensive suits and rolax watch made me angry.
I really wanted to ask them if Jesus was wearing the same outfits . Makes me sick . While some of the witnesses are giving all their assets and money giving up their family needs the GB is celebrating behind their back.
Reply
ruthlee says:
July 17, 2016 at 3:44 am
Hi Folks THIS IS FOE IRONIC PURPOSES ONLY. Don’t get me started!!!!!! Anger over, now I address the Amharets. You poor foolish fools. Can you not see you darling rank and file and yes you are rank. You are mere mortals of the earth and has been mentioned your beloved GB are sooo close to the mother ship in eager anticipation they get a little too close at times. As for the 5* hotels nothing but the best for the kings in waiting after all they are invited to the wine and bread do in heaven very very shortly. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. God has left the land and let the lunatics take over the asylum. I think the GB can justify every penny, cent, denarius, they spend because you poor earthling fools can pray for manna and quails til they come down your nose. and they can live like kings. You dear rank and file set them up for this luxurious lifestyle all in the name of a little tin god.Not only do they insult our intelligence with their stupid doctrines, they despise the little sheep and fleece them of every penny of course god is on holiday flying first class as we speak so does not give a flying f**k. Real people hate injustice that is natural but I suspect we hate being duped even more so because something is stolen in a more underhand way. When the time comes for justice like that wicked queen the only words left will be “Let her drop” yours rather peeved, Ruthlee
Reply
Painfulreality says:
July 17, 2016 at 6:10 am
Very interesting but quite unusable without solid proof. I believe it fully, but my relatives wont. Just feel really frustrated now.
Reply
hazel says:
July 17, 2016 at 6:24 am
French: https://hazel42.blogspot.fr/2016/07/business-class-pour-le-porte-parole-de.html
Reply
Twmack says:
July 17, 2016 at 6:53 am
National Assembly, Wembley Stadium around 1968.
In preparation for arrival of delegates, London Bro’s
had canvassed the city for accommodation,
offering h,holders. 7/6d per night ( around a dollar
and a half )
The London Press picked up on this. And as well as
commenting on the paltry amount offered for the
lodgings, pointed out that none of High rankers from
N,Y, were using these digs. They were ensconced
in top London hotels.
I wondered why they hadn’t stayed at the Mill Hill
Bethel, which is only about 8 miles from Wembley
and saved the money they so vitally needed for
Kingdom preaching. Especially since 1975 was
fast approaching. ( Silly me )
So while these long assemblies were a toil for many
R&F especially with young children. It was a 5 star
vacation for these autocrats.
Reply
Draek says:
July 17, 2016 at 12:44 pm
How many times were we told experiences of brothers digging through the trash just to find something to eat because of the sacrifices they made to attend assemblies/conventions?
Reply
ScotWm says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:35 am
Business class — the only way to fly! We are now seeing corporate greed at its worst. Apparently, hijacking Sophia’s ice cream money hasn’t provided enough money to satisfy the Watchtower accountants.
The Watchtower’s Governing Body sideshow geeks are now literally begging their cult followers to give money so that they can “show appreciation for all that Jehovah and his Son have done” for them.
This begging has reached a new low now that the Watchtower is specifically targeting bank accounts, stocks and bonds, real estate, wills, donations via electronic bank transfer, debit card, or credit card, cash, jewelry and other valuable personal property.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws201512/donations-worldwide-work/#?insight%5Bsearch_id%5D=64d0fc2b-c15d-4df1-a876-2eae74e70fa6&insight%5Bsearch_result_index%5D=2
In the illustration, the woman swiping her credit card at a Watchtower kiosk is shown wearing a bracelet. Will she soon be expected to put her wedding ring and all her other jewelry in the collection box?
Reply
Telescopium says:
July 18, 2016 at 1:54 pm
ScotWm,
I always had a discomfort when we’d have the ‘money’ parts in the meetings. Now, clicking your link to jw.org just brought back the bile taste…
The November 15, 2010 Watchtower discusses the brochure “Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide” and states: “After reading the brochure and conferring with their own legal or tax advisers, many have been able to help support our religious and humanitarian activities worldwide and maximize their tax benefits while doing so.”
‘Humanitarian activities’?
Yep, definitely bile…
Reply
F.S. says:
July 17, 2016 at 10:58 am
That’s why I won’t give them any of my hard earned money anymore… What would be even more interesting would be to find out what branding company the org hired to rebrand itself since 2013 the beginnings of j.w.org..The kids videos, the enhanced website, the broadcast, the mobile carts, the blue jworg blue color, all of that was the idea of a branding company. I would like to find out how much all of that must cost the org on a yearly basis
..Trust me it aInt cheap, it runs in the millions… They must keep this info very hush hush..Is their anyway to find out?
Reply
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← The Friday Column: Outside the bubble
News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation →
No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
avatar
Posted on July 16, 2016
When it comes the the Governing Body's travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
When it comes the the Governing Body’s travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
Earlier today, JWsurvey was contacted by an airline employee based at a major European airport who was willing to give a remarkable insight into the lavish lifestyle of Governing Body members.
Though this won’t come as a surprise to many, it turns out GB members DO travel business class at the expense of ordinary Witnesses.
Our contact, who I will call Paula, is a recently-awakened Jehovah’s Witness. For the purpose of protecting her identity and shielding her from punitive action we are withholding a number of key details. However, I can confirm JWsurvey has received proof corroborating Paula’s story.
Paula had an unexpected encounter with a Governing Body member while he was on a stop-over to a destination in Africa. She immediately recognised the GB member when he asked her when boarding would commence.
Noticing that the GB member was flying business class, Paula couldn’t resist checking his flight details on the airport system to see how much his ticket had cost. It turns out he and his wife were flying for approximately $4,500 each for a combined cost of $9,000 – all of which will have come straight out of contributions for the “worldwide work.”
Paula has disclosed the destination the GB member was flying to, and suggested an economy ticket on the same route with the same airline would cost around $1000. I have checked the airline’s website when preparing this article and, indeed, a single economy ticket to the same location from New York (flying in September) can cost as little as $930.92.
It would be fair to conclude from this story that, for the sake of their own comfort, Governing Body members are routinely travelling at quadruple what the cost would be if they were to demonstrate the humility and self-sacrifice they demand of rank and file Witnesses.
And you can be sure that, when it comes to deciding on whether the “faithful and discreet slave” should fly business class rather than economy, even if this means dipping deeper into dedicated funds, the final decision rests with the very ones who stand to benefit from the more lavish, exorbitant option.
Watchtower released a cartoon encouraging children to part with their ice cream money to bolster organization funds
Watchtower released a cartoon encouraging children to part with their ice cream money to bolster organization funds
So far there have been two instances of a Governing Body member, i.e. Stephen Lett, pleading for more contributions on JW Broadcasting to assist with Watchtower’s “projicks.” A Caleb-and-Sophia cartoon has even been produced encouraging young children to part with their ice cream money for the sake of “kingdom interests.”
Hard-working Witnesses the world over are, it seems, being taken for fools. They would do well to contemplate whether they really want to keep sending donations when these are being so readily squandered by a group of men who are happy to pick the pockets of children (and people who they have mostly deprived of a decent education) just so they can stretch their legs at 30,000 feet.
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Further reading…
◾Article on Stephen Lett begging for money on JW Broadcasting
◾Article on Caleb and Sophia cartoon asking for ice cream money
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← The Friday Column: Outside the bubble
News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation →
269 Responses to No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
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Newer Comments →
Outandabout says:
July 17, 2016 at 12:08 pm
I’ve always been afraid of flying, but I’ve just realised that problem is solved. Just make sure I’m booked on the same flight as one of the GB and that plane will never crash with old ‘J’ keeping it up. I’d be able to sleep like a baby that’s just received a life saving blood transfusion. Yes!!!!! I’d be able to walk up to that GB member, congratulate him on his humility and slip a fiver for the worldwide work into his top pocket. Maybe even offer to buy him a Bloody Mary to help with the stress of it all.
I wonder what Occupational Health and Safety think of this Corporation. What with an estimated 51,000 deaths since 1961, shouldn’t the place be shut down and a thorough investigation be undertaken? They’re obviously a dangerous crowd to be an ’employee’ of.
Reply
Draek says:
July 17, 2016 at 12:35 pm
After observing the members of the GB when JW Broadcasting first started, with their suits and watches and pinky rings, things that would have been frowned up in my congregation, I am forever glad my contributions to the “world wide work” were far and few between (probably not even totaling $100 the entire time I was in). I wonder how they would react when confronted with Matthew 23:3B?
Reply
Elijah says:
July 17, 2016 at 1:11 pm
You can’t expect the chosen mouthpiece of the creator of the entire universe to sit amongst other peasants and nobodies, right?
Reply
Andrea says:
July 18, 2016 at 12:11 am
This is quite disturbing and disgusting. I know the kind of sacrifices people at my old congregation went to to donate generously, even my parents. It’s sickening to think this is what they’re spending it on. When people are giving up better living conditions (not luxurious, simply a little better) to give them that money, it just makes it all the more maddening.
I really hope there’s a way to get this information to the rank and file, bound to open the eyes of many.
Reply
Hakizimana says:
July 18, 2016 at 4:38 am
The Kingdom “has come” or “is coming”:
*** w64 4/15 p. 230 par. 3 What Will “God’s Kingdom Come” Mean to You? ***
The words “God’s kingdom come” are based on the prayer addressed to God in heaven, namely, “Thy kingdom come.” Many persons do not notice the fact that this prayer was taught by an Asiatic. Among the three branches of the human race, the Japhetic, the Shemitic and the Hamitic, this Asiatic man was of the Shemitic branch. He traces his family line of descent back to Shem, the second of the three sons of Noah, from whom all mankind of today have descended. (Gen. 10:21; Luke 3:23-36) Among the many families of Shemites we find the family of Hebrews, Israelites or Jews. The Asiatic teacher of the prayer for God’s kingdom to come was such a Hebrew, Israelite or Jew. He was born in the town of Bethlehem in the Roman province of Judea almost two thousand years ago, in the same town where his famous ancestor had been born, David son of Jesse, who became king of Jerusalem.
Reply
Mike Peeters says:
July 18, 2016 at 5:03 am
I’m a 1k frequent traveler and get business class upgrades all the time, even on international flights. The company only pays for an economy ticket. Could this be the case of these GB members?
Reply
Cedars says:
July 18, 2016 at 5:19 am
Again, the airport worker was able to check how much was paid for the ticket on the system.
Reply
Mike Peeters says:
July 18, 2016 at 1:00 pm
Thanks for informing us on any of the findings. I suspected that the GB travels in business class. However proof would be nice untill then it is only hearsay.
Reply
Freed Mason says:
July 18, 2016 at 5:08 am
This leaves no doubt in my mind that these men are not who they portray themselves to be, a ticket in economy would have proved otherwise.
I wonder if a normal Bethelite also flies business class, I think not!!
Unlike these jokers, Jesus was humble and set the example for all of us:
God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.
1 Corinthians 1:28-29
I guess there will be a lot of explaining to be done when they arrive in heaven.
Reply
Big B says:
July 18, 2016 at 6:11 am
@ Freed Mason
“I guess there will be a lot of explaining to be done when they arrive in heaven”.
If any of these crooked pedophile protecting charlatans (because that’s what they truly are) find themselves in heaven to explain anything before Jehovah or Christ then there is absolutely no justice. Certainly Gehenna is where they should answer for their duplicitous conduct.
These crooks have been lying to their flock for decades. About as bad as any T.V. evangelists I am familiar with. The seven delusional dwarfs are ‘first among equals’ and answerable to no one, period! From their U.N association until now these self-appointed, self righteous hypocrites are far above the rest of the congregation and nobody at Bethel has the fortitude to perform a coup (hostile takeover) or call them out!
Only if the rank and file decides to leave their Halls and perform a secession owing to doctrinal and other differences (schism) will anything be positive be accomplished. Then the Kingdom Halls would have to be sold as there will be no members to support their upkeep.
As far as these airline tickets go, this action is par for the course. Nothing is to good for the ‘faithful and discrete slave’ who, by the way unless we forget, have been appointed (self appointed) by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit to feed the flock food (read ‘manure’) at the proper time. It’s the ‘mushroom treatment’ all over again.
Many thanks to you Lloyd for keeping us informed.
At least we can get the Truth about the TRUTH from this site. Thanks again.
Reply
alan says:
July 18, 2016 at 5:42 am
Surely you do not begrudge Christ’s “brothers” a little of luxury after all that they do? It takes them a great deal time to think of various ways to fleece the flock without being caught out too many times and preparing talks which cleverly show that they are God’s mouthpiece. Amos 3:7 😉
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 18, 2016 at 8:03 am
They also have to extend their efforts to think up BS doctrinal changes like overlapping generations and such, as well as come up with new rules with which to burden the flock (Matt 11:29 versus 23:4), so they deserve some of the finer things
WS
Reply
steven horne says:
July 19, 2016 at 1:46 pm
Quite agree! Fleecing the flock is a hard, 24 hour, 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year, slog!
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
July 18, 2016 at 6:18 am
Jesus arrived on a ass (donkey). Governing body arrives on First Class. Physical men and their royal ego’s. Another reason not to give donation money to this “religion”. Things are slowly coming out.
Reply
steven horne says:
July 19, 2016 at 1:47 pm
Ass Class doesn’t exist! If it did, I am sure the Governing Body would opt for it!
Reply
Archie1914 says:
July 18, 2016 at 6:37 am
This comes as no surprise to me.They have been flying business class for years.Just think of the total amount.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 18, 2016 at 8:09 am
They may try to argue that due to health issues, they need the additional space and amnenities found in business class. But if that’s the case, then why not send some younger bethelite who can cram himself into a coach seat to handle these speaking engagements? Are they so full of themselves that they need to personally deliver these talks at international conventions? And why do their wives need to travel with them? Could they not stay at home? Business men travel all over the world everyday and seldom do their companies pay for their wives to travel with them.
WS
Reply
rob says:
July 18, 2016 at 8:18 am
Now I am beginning to wonder what hotels the GB are staying in? Probably 5 Star.
They are truly legends in their own minds.
Reply
Searcher says:
July 18, 2016 at 9:14 am
I could almost see TPT or “Big Eyes” Lett sitting on that airline cot, licking a complementary business class ice cream cone saying, “Thanks a lot kid!”
Reply
Moses says:
July 18, 2016 at 9:37 am
Jws put out an article a while back entitled”Fleecing the flock” ,but they referred it to other religions. Talking bout” the pot calling the kettle black”. Hush your mouth!!!
Reply
James Broughton says:
July 18, 2016 at 9:42 am
As Moses says, the issue here is hypocrisy. The next time a JW refers to the opulence of the Church it may be good to share the facts of this article with him/her. Thanks Lloyd as ever for the research.
Reply
Twmack says:
July 18, 2016 at 11:53 am
A man in our territory wrote an irate letter to the
society, complaining that his elderly wife with
failing mental faculties had been talked into buying
a subscription to the WT.
Obviously, the best way to resolve this would have
been, to cancel the subscription and refund the
money, but this was not done.
Instead, there was a letter in the congregation mail
with instructions from the branch for an elder to
visit the man and try to appease him.
I went along with another bro, the man was still very
angry and scornful especially as they hadn’t returned
the money. But said they would pray for him.
Just a small incident, but it does show where their
main interests lie.
Reply
Bright Lightbulb says:
July 18, 2016 at 4:34 pm
I have been out/away for a while, some 2 years now. Is this experience older then that? I wasn’t aware you pay for a subscription.
Reply
Big B says:
July 19, 2016 at 11:51 am
@ Bright Lightbulb;
There hasn’t been a magazine subscription for the Watchtower & Awake magazines or a public subscription campaign for these journals for the better part of a decade.
When we last offered either magazine it was for 6 months or a year and your goal was two subscriptions during the month long campaign. (Two campaigns every six months, one for the Watchtower and one for the Awake!)
And yes, I wrote up my wife for six months and she wrote me up for six months so at least we could count one subscription each.
However, back to your original query…
km 7/04 p. 3 Question Box ***
“The only subscriptions that the United States branch will maintain on file are for those who cannot be served by a congregation publisher through a magazine route. If the Congregation Service Committee submits a request for subscriptions for someone who cannot otherwise obtain them, the secretary should include a brief note verifying that this subscription request has been reviewed and approved by the Congregation Service Committee.”
km 4/02 p. 7 Continue Benefiting From The Watchtower and Awake! ***
“Those With Special Needs: If an individual displays genuine interest but lives in unassigned territory, an exception can be made to allow him to receive the magazines by mail subscription. If a person living in the congregation’s territory cannot be served by a magazine route but is sincerely interested in receiving the magazines, discuss the case with the Congregation Service Committee. If they approve, a subscription can be turned in for the interested person. The standard subscription forms (M-1 and M-101) may be used for this purpose.”
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/124162/can-u-order-watchtower-awake-subscription-anymore
Reply
faded john says:
July 18, 2016 at 11:58 am
Another brilliant scoop!
Even though it can’t be proved, and has to be taken entirely on trust, I still think this is a great exposé. There are those who might say that you’re indulging in reckless propaganda, and ignoring the rules of natural justice, but I think you’re right to go with your hunch on this one. It might be a type of yellow journalism, but it is still a worthwhile tool in this ends-justifies-means war.
Whilst I’m here, I would like to congratulate you on your forthcoming book and your intention to use a portion of the profits to set up a hardship fund for Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I know you have been terribly maligned in the past, and I am sure there are a number of haters who will question your motives for writing this book. I can already hear the petty accusations of ‘vanity publishing’ and ‘lining his own pockets’.
Fair play to you for taking a stand consistent with your own humanist principles. Setting up this fund proves that you aren’t simply in it for the money, and it will certainly help to neutralise that slur.
I will happily contribute to this fund as soon as you announce a date for the book’s availability. I can hardly wait!
Reply
Scrubmaster says:
July 18, 2016 at 12:11 pm
While I believe the story it would be great if full disclosure could be made. A picture and a price of the ticket would be all so great! 🙂 I would love to see it go viral and them find out what kind of explanation would be given to the flock.
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Archie1914 says:
July 18, 2016 at 2:05 pm
Plagiarism.There is another case of plagiarism in the book “you can live forever in paradise on earth”(1982).On p.152 there is a painting of a head of a frustrated woman, in the background is an angry young man.That “angry young man”is taken from a newsphoto.I have been trying to find it on the net.If I do I will send it to you.
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Peter the Digger says:
July 18, 2016 at 3:38 pm
Also noticed, when many years ago the JWs had the home-based Tuesday Group, that oit was always the less well off members who hosted it, in tiny cramped claustrophobic rooms, hot and sweaty in our suits. Only ever held in the wealthier members bigger houses when the main host was away/ill. The elite didn’t want the hoi polloi sullying their spotless beige carpets of course. oh and the poorer hosts always lived in areas where car parking was scarce, narrow roads, so neighbour-parking issues arose. Likewise my elderly relative, when very ill, a JW foe decades, only ever gets calls from fellow poor OAP JWs, and the same for get well cards. the elders only show up when there may be a blood issue at the hospital or similar.
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Bright Lightbulb says:
July 18, 2016 at 4:47 pm
Don’t mean to divert from the main points in this article but I thought this article was too interesting not to share when it comes to WTA and straw mans tactic and distorting information.http://www.catholic.com/tracts/are-they-awake-on-the-watchtower
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free@last says:
July 21, 2016 at 9:43 am
Thanks for the post Bright Lightbulb! Definitely eye opening! When I finally left the org and summoned the courage to visit different churches I was shocked to learn that EVERYTHING I was told about “Christendom” was a total lie! Then I finally attended college I learned about the proper way to do research and cite your sources, and how easy it is to “bend” information to your prove your point especially if you do not cite sources properly and only use one source for your information. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: of course they never wanted us to do our own research outside of the WTS or go to college….duh! It’s all so clear now that sometimes its painful to think about.
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Bad Penny says:
July 18, 2016 at 4:56 pm
At our last convention before quitting, we went to visit an old circuit overseer in one of the posh boxes at the football stadium. He introduced a brother who was with him, “This is the Arthur Negus of the Bethel”! “Yes”, he replied, (brandishing a rather nice wristwatch) “it is my job to sell all the estate assets, jewellery and antiques that are left to the society”. Nice one ‘Arthur’! Bet that bought a few plane tickets for the GB!
They have gone down in the world a little bit. An elder, who was well in at Bethel some years ago, let it out that the GB travelled by Concorde on more than one occasion. We thought it rather extravagant at the time, but the blinkers were still on then. C’est la vie!
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spearmint says:
July 19, 2016 at 6:47 am
That is dusgusting but also dishonest.
If I had ever given a lot of money to this organisation and can prove it, I will find others in the same, see a lawyer and ask for my money back in reason of deception. Win for sure.
I also think of jw broadcasting 5 with Sam Herd and a 20000 $ rollex. GB members are the true descendants of Rutherford.
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Bad Penny says:
July 19, 2016 at 7:19 am
Yep, for years the money has just kept rolling in! The ones who have left their entire estates to Watchtower on their death, sometimes leaving offspring without a penny. All in the name of ‘God’.
You have to agree, it’s clever, very clever. Give us your life, give us all your money – you may get a reward if you are REALLY good!
As for the ‘anointed ones’, they can have it all now and in heaven!!!
P.S. I forgot to mention that the real Arthur Negus (in my last post) was an antiques expert on a TV programme in Great Britain for many years.
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Winston Smith says:
July 19, 2016 at 9:34 am
Yep, my father-in-law has given 10’s of thousands to the Borg. In the meantime my sister-in-law (his daughter) found herself homeless and we had to take her in. I guess 1 Timothy 5:8 doesn’t apply when it comes to giving money to the Borg. Good thing I disobeyed and went to college so I can support my extended family.
WS
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Twmack says:
July 19, 2016 at 8:51 am
Bright. Light Bulb. Thanks for your enquiry.
Yes it’s an experience from way back, I left the
org, in 1982.
As a rule no literature was given away free, and it was
always a feather in our cap if we could get a 6 months or a
years subscription to the WT, rather than placing just a
single copy. And we were always eager to share the
experience with others at the KH.
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Charlie Tazer says:
July 19, 2016 at 10:19 am
How is this news? They’re members of the board of a multimillion dollar company. That’s par for the course.
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Big B says:
July 19, 2016 at 12:01 pm
@ Charlie Tazer;
Yep, “They’re members of the board of a multi-million dollar company”.
A multi-million dollar ‘corporation’ with free labor and no stockholders. How convenient. Without stockholders to get paid dividends or vote on board members in the corporation, you can expect little change from current policy. Why? Because the Governing Body is self-perpetuating/promoting and votes its own members in.
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Winston Smith says:
July 19, 2016 at 4:21 pm
And don’t forget: it’s all TAX FREE!!!
WS
Reply
Big B says:
July 20, 2016 at 11:34 am
@ W.S.
Oops, sorry. An unfortunate but rectifiable oversight on my part.
“Yes, it’s all TAX FREE”.
As Oubliette loves to end her comments with, “Let’s review…It’s a CULT!”
Reply
Johnjacobjingleheimerschmidt says:
July 19, 2016 at 12:10 pm
Any way to get this in Spanish?
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Doc Obvious says:
July 19, 2016 at 1:15 pm
Watchtower, please do not talk about morals to me. When a religion that protects child sex abusers and tries to use “Freedom or Religion” as a basis to cover up these immoral acts, it is the religion that needs moral guidance, not me.
The reason that more people are going towards atheism is that the young generation does not want to be bothered with hypocritical religions and their blatant disregard for human rights. The recent negative actions of religions also shows the young generation that religion is something you steer away from, not join.
When religion does things that go against human rights, people flock to atheism and agnosticism. Today’s religions set a bad example and conflict with God’s commandments.
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Mike says:
July 19, 2016 at 8:31 pm
Can someone post hidden camera to expose GB member feeling very comfortable in 1st Class while kids give them their ice cream money? Contact 60 Minutes TV Show! They need to confront them outside of Bethel after Breakfast, etc…
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Had-Enough says:
July 19, 2016 at 9:00 pm
Is it possible that someone else paid for ticket? I seem to remember that congregations who invite a bethelite to speak have to provide the air ticket.
Perhaps someone told the GB member that they would pay the airfaire and wanted them to fly business class. And then sent the money for that specific purpose.
Also, since the GB probably get lots of Green Handshakes, maybe they paid for the ticket themselves with money personally donated to them.
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Markie says:
July 19, 2016 at 9:57 pm
I would think that the African congregation he is visiting put up the money. They probably had to sell all their she goats. But think of the rich spiritual fest they had with his wonderful visit. I am sure he encouraged them to do even more.
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Telescopium says:
July 20, 2016 at 2:59 pm
“I’m sure he encouraged them to do even more.”
Ha! Including donating! Next time he wants FIRST class!
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Holy Connoli says:
July 19, 2016 at 11:57 pm
To had -enough. Even if someone did pay for it wouldn’t the “Christian” thing to do is humble yourself and flu coach or economy and contribute the extra funds to the “World wide work” or perhaps feed the hungry and disadvantaged? Oh I forgot, the WT does not do that. They only take care of themselves personally and only in an extreme emergency do they help anyone else including JW’s.
This is an ugly religion my friends. Full of hate and
disjointed teachings filled with decades of errors and false prophecies. A religion that destroys families and friends and does or know the love of Jesus. Let’s review: It is a cult!
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Red says:
July 20, 2016 at 4:11 am
Last night at my midweek meeting the local needs was on donations. It was clarified what the different donation boxes are used for i.e printing, refurbs, bethel,disaster relief, C.O car expenses etc(although flying business class was not mentioned at all) . All i could think of was this article and although annoyed i was mostly sad. I remember seeing a pioneer sister in her mid twenties putting coins in an envelope to donate, i remember how much she struggled financially to “put the kingdom first” . It certainly doesn’t seem as though the governing body is following Jesus lead, rather they seem fully entrenched in the world they hold their followers back from enjoying by putting their comforts first.
Reply
M Saurus says:
July 20, 2016 at 9:02 am
I don’t know how people could be aware of this information (and other information about the org) and be able to sit through a meeting in good conscience.
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Harry Cadanza says:
July 20, 2016 at 3:03 pm
@M Saurus, You don’t understand. It has nothing to do with good or bad conscience in the WAY you’re thinking of it. It takes a lot of love and a very unselfish person to go to meetings because of love for family. What you’re saying sounds very selfish to me. We do it to rescue our family and to protect them. In a way you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ll do what ever it takes to rescue my family from this cult. Even go into a kingdom hall. You don’t need to question our motive for doing this. We’re not here to please you.http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/35-years-later-jonestown-massacre-survivor-speaks-/241965459
Jim Jones Exerted ‘Total Mind Control’
Jonestown survivor Leslie Wagner Wilson, now 55.
“The church did many good deeds, but followers were never allowed to criticize Jones or talk to others outside the group.” “They signed contracts vowing their allegiance.” “It was a cult, total mind control,” said Wilson, who, as a teen, traveled the country recruiting members. “The church would humiliate you and take away any ego you had. Everything centered on the cause.” “My husband had moved up the ranks, and I had decided I didn’t want to do this anymore,” People cooperated and collaborated in the oppression, and victims were also the perpetrators.” In the end, 909 were either injected with or drank potassium cyanide mixed into a vat of punch and tranquilizers. Babies had poison squirted in their mouths with syringes. Wilson’s husband was found on a bed face-up back at the compound. “We don’t know what killed him,” she said. Wilson and others attend annual memorial services at Evergreen Cemetery in Oakland, where 407 Jonestown victims, mostly children, are buried in a mass grave. But on May 29, 2011, an estimated 150 survivors and relatives dedicated a monument to those who died. An interfaith group erected four granite plaques with the names of all 918 who died. Though controversial, the names of both Jones and Ryan appear on the list. The Jonestown memorial is at Evergreen Cemetery in Oakland, Calif. Wilson, now working in health care and the mother of three adult children, said she hopes each anniversary is a reminder to those who are too young to remember Jonestown to take heed. “We don’t want to see it repeated,” she said. But she understands the emotional draw of a Jonestown: “People want be loved,” she said. “And taken care of.” Now wary of organized religion, she finds solace in her faith: “I have found a higher power.” “Jim separated the nuclear family. The cause and he were center to everything, and so your family didn’t mean anything to you. It was the cause and him,” she explained. So, she joined a group of defectors, planning their escape she had no idea what was going to happen. The plan all along was to go to theU.S. Embassy, then return to get the others out. She dealt with survivor’s guilt.
Reply
M Saurus says:
July 21, 2016 at 2:03 pm
I don’t see how you pretending to go along with it is saving your family from anything. I am not judging you, but I think you are perpetuating the problem, not solving it.
Oh, and also saving yourself from shunning. You love your family so much you will “grudgingly” stay in a horrible cult for them, pretending to be a member. Well….
If you ever decide to stop the charade and refuse to have your good name associated with this cult, do you think your beloved family members will shun you? Do they love YOU enough to ignore that rule and continue the “loving” relationship you now have? I don’t know them personally, but if they are like most JWs – the answer is NO. They will cut off all contact with you quicker than you can say “apostate”.
Reply
Big B says:
July 20, 2016 at 4:22 pm
@ M Saurus;
I personally would find it tough going to sit through the nonsense at any meeting or convention knowing what I know now.
Pedophilia practicing pervert protecting is rampant to the point that no parent can protect their children from who they cannot identify.
A twisted back-stabbing, grimacing group of ‘love bombing’ tattle-tails, unhappy with their own miserable lives, who find fault and evil in just about everything others find joy in. They rub their hands together in glee with every sad misfortune they hear or read in the newspapers because to them this shows how close Armageddon is.
Yep, it’s a commin’! Forty-one years since 1975 and we’re “another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter don’t you call me cause I can’t go; I owe my soul to the company store.” -Tennessee Ernie Ford 1955 ‘Sixteen Tons’
Reply
Harry Cadanza says:
July 20, 2016 at 9:39 pm
Another thought I have is this, JWs from the inside who are in good standing are the ones who have sent unreleased memos and videos to jwsurvey. We are necessary. We do it for the good of many, unselfishly, in order to help nieve ones. We are doing the right thing. We do it to help as many as we can. You don’t get it.
Reply
Big B says:
July 21, 2016 at 7:32 am
@ Harry Cadanza
If you’re implying that by sitting through hours of malarkey (because that is what it is) and nodding your head in agreement because “We do it for the good of many, unselfishly, in order to help naive ones. We are doing the right thing. We do it to help as many as we can”.
Really? Then you are correct, I truly “don’t get it”. My opinion is this (and it is only my opinion); when you take a true stand (to thy own self be true) and leave the Kingdom Hall; that action in itself takes fortitude and truly makes an lasting impression on the ‘naive ones.’ Those who are truly your friends will inquire or contact you as to why you left. Making your meetings reinforces the ‘naive ones’ desire to stay the course, encouraging their belief (I think) that you too are a true believer and the propaganda preached from the platform is true.
Only when the seats are empty will they question “what in the world is going on?” Perhaps they will even try and contact you; perhaps.
That being said, who am I to judge your actions or reactions? Personally speaking, after 55 years of this nonsense I left and told them (the elders that visited me) why I had left. I received two “get well cards” imploring me to return but absolutely no inquiries as to why my family and I left.
However, that’s me and how I handled my protest, by complete and total non support, non attendance and non affiliation. This action of mine is not meant to judge or implicate you. 🙂
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 21, 2016 at 8:42 am
@Big B,
At times I have entertained the thought, what if I were to go back and try to bring them down from the inside, but then I realize that I could not possibly stomach sitting there and listening to all the BS.
I think some activists believe that the organization needs to reform, and thus by staying in they can aid it in that reform, and thus not go through the extremes of shunning. I think back to the American Revolution: some wanted complete independence from Great Britain, while others simply wanted reforms as to how the colonists were treated.
I personally believe that the only way you can fully recover from the cult is a complete break, but as you mention above, to each his or her own.
WS
M Saurus says:
July 21, 2016 at 10:03 am
Sorry HC, I don’t buy it. If that reasoning lets you sleep at night then that’s fine.
I personally think it’s just because you have “friends” and “family” you are not willing to give up.
But, like I said, if it assuages your conscience to tell yourself you are staying in as a “spy” – good for you.
Reply
Lee herson says:
July 20, 2016 at 6:50 am
Proof please ? Otherwise its tittle tattle ! Loyd
Reply
John Redwood says:
July 20, 2016 at 12:30 pm
Lee
Please read my reply to EJ
JR
Reply
Lee herson says:
July 20, 2016 at 6:51 am
Lloyd sorry
Reply
rob says:
July 20, 2016 at 7:34 am
I am of the opinion that even if the ticket was paid for by someone else, why would the GB not cash it in for an economy fare and put the difference in the donation box?
They preach about giving and donating to the worldwide work – why would they not donate too, where possible?
I believe that it boils down to: privilege and entitlement. In their eyes, the GB feels that they are living in a different stratosphere from the ordinary working class person and therefore they do not have to follow the rules that they impose upon the flock.
The message from the GB is – Simplify, downsize, do not be materialistic and live a meager lifestyle.
Instead, they have classified themselves as the faithful and discreet slave class, they fly first class, they are treated like royalty by the rank and file and they cannot be questioned. I guess the GB really have figured out how to be the one per centers.
I gave up this religion for many reasons, but seeing this type of abuse of donations, really makes me realize that God cannot be a part of this religion.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 20, 2016 at 8:21 am
Well said. Are they men of God or men of Gold?
WS
Reply
twistedsister69 says:
July 20, 2016 at 7:21 pm
“In Gold we Trust”
Reply
Lee herson says:
July 20, 2016 at 9:04 am
Give me proof !
Reply
Outandabout says:
July 20, 2016 at 12:11 pm
What!?…you want proof? Your’e possibly a JW and you’re asking for proper proof of something before actually believing it?
Go back to sleep.
Reply
Twmack says:
July 20, 2016 at 9:25 am
One of the biggest expenditures of any commercial
Org, is the wages bill, hence they organise for
efficiency to keep staff levels down.
The JW org, has it set up so that they are not encumbered
with paying paying out decent wages. So saving on labour
is not a priority but saving on money is.
On an elders course at Bethel, circa early 70s,
our instructor, David Gibson, told the class.
“The society doesn’t go for the most efficient way, but for
the Cheapest.”
another incident I remember from the same time was.
At breakfast the branch overseer Wilf Gooch felt it
necessary to explain why top brass from NY had stayed
in hotels and not roomed at Bethel ( Must have been some
murmuring .)
Gooch said there was no room at Bethel. Well,I thought,
there would have been room if they were packed 3 to a
small unit, as we visiting students were.
What comes across loud and clear is. Saving money
applies only to the lower echelons.
Reply
John Deere says:
July 20, 2016 at 10:23 am
Granted, I can see why the older ones in there 80’s, like Heard or Lösch might need that comfort for long flights, but the younger ones should tough it out. If I can suffer watching my family getting murdered in front me for not buying a political party card, then you should be able to suffer, for the sake of the kingdom, flying economy for 18 to 20 hours.
I remember when I was serving in Bethel, they wouldn’t even drive you to the airport, unless a bethel speaker was already going on “slave” business, because it was a waste of gas and kingdom funds. I guess on the night of the first “Lord’s evening meal”, Jesus cheated himself by telling his disciples to go find a tied up ass to ride on. He should’ve told them to go to Caesar’s Palace and grab Caesar’s very own chariot if this business class stuff is true. And if you ever served Bethel recently, you know how you can start to loathe food. I know they not bringing packaged Bethel food lunches on these flights either. I can only imagine Gerrit Lösch additional wine bill on long flights or any of then for that matter.
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Twmack says:
July 20, 2016 at 12:13 pm
The afore mentioned David Gibson was considered by
many, to be the best teacher at Bethel. But he would
often come out with off the cuff statements.
These were probably based on his own experience
and his analysis of the orgs, methods, rather than from
his official notes. These unscripted remarks became
known as “Gibsonisms” a term used scornfully by some
COs I knew, who were probably jealous of his ability and
high regard.
One of these Gibsonisms he came out with, which was
very telling was in regard to reporting time spent in field
service. It was he said, “Because people work better when
they know their work will be checked.”
I’m pretty sure that didn’t come from N,Y, but it “Was right
on the money.” So to speak.
Reply
GEM says:
July 21, 2016 at 1:24 am
@Tw: My Dad was in the Elder School (UK) in 1972 or there abouts (he was among the very first appointed in the new Elders arrangement).
David Gibson was there when I did my Stretch, starting in 1978. I have to say I found him very human, very upbuilding (he said something incredible to me on my last day at Bethel). For me, he was top Notch and I often think of him with fondness.
I believe he was from a large family, many of whom claimed to be of the Anointed. Correct me if I am wrong.
Is he still around, and, what happened to him? Do you know?
Best wishes
Reply
twistedsister69 says:
July 20, 2016 at 7:55 pm
M’kay, going a little off topic here, but as long as we’re talking about despicable blood-sucking cults (and how to escape them), I feel compelled to share something I just stumbled on to. There’s this interesting fellow named Stefan Molyneux. He’s an Irish-born Canadian with a Master’s in history from the University of Toronto. He ran a software company with his brother in the 90’s. Since 2005, he’s had his own radio show called Freedomain Radio (FDR). I stumbled onto one of his (many) vids on YouTube, where he was discussing with a caller the INCREDIBLE influence our parents have on us. More powerful even than culture, politics, or religion. (Of course, anyone raised JW knows that their parental influence definitely = religious / cult influence.) I’m not aware that he was ever a JW, I don’t know much about his personal background, but he did state that he had spent $20,000 on therapy, and that it was ‘the best money he ever spent’. He and his wife have both “deFOO’d”. (FOO = Family Of Origin) In other words, they voluntarily cut the bonds with their families, due to whatever negative effects their families were having on their welfare. I can’t say exactly to what extent they took this. For anyone who’s interested, I’m including the link. If you don’t feel like ploughing through the whole thing (some of it is rather tedious), the real meat and potatoes begins at 1:02:00.
Reply
twistedsister69 says:
July 20, 2016 at 8:01 pm
Whoops, almost forgot …
Reply
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← The Friday Column: Outside the bubble
News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation →
No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
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Posted on July 16, 2016
When it comes the the Governing Body's travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
When it comes the the Governing Body’s travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
Earlier today, JWsurvey was contacted by an airline employee based at a major European airport who was willing to give a remarkable insight into the lavish lifestyle of Governing Body members.
Though this won’t come as a surprise to many, it turns out GB members DO travel business class at the expense of ordinary Witnesses.
Our contact, who I will call Paula, is a recently-awakened Jehovah’s Witness. For the purpose of protecting her identity and shielding her from punitive action we are withholding a number of key details. However, I can confirm JWsurvey has received proof corroborating Paula’s story.
Paula had an unexpected encounter with a Governing Body member while he was on a stop-over to a destination in Africa. She immediately recognised the GB member when he asked her when boarding would commence.
Noticing that the GB member was flying business class, Paula couldn’t resist checking his flight details on the airport system to see how much his ticket had cost. It turns out he and his wife were flying for approximately $4,500 each for a combined cost of $9,000 – all of which will have come straight out of contributions for the “worldwide work.”
Paula has disclosed the destination the GB member was flying to, and suggested an economy ticket on the same route with the same airline would cost around $1000. I have checked the airline’s website when preparing this article and, indeed, a single economy ticket to the same location from New York (flying in September) can cost as little as $930.92.
It would be fair to conclude from this story that, for the sake of their own comfort, Governing Body members are routinely travelling at quadruple what the cost would be if they were to demonstrate the humility and self-sacrifice they demand of rank and file Witnesses.
And you can be sure that, when it comes to deciding on whether the “faithful and discreet slave” should fly business class rather than economy, even if this means dipping deeper into dedicated funds, the final decision rests with the very ones who stand to benefit from the more lavish, exorbitant option.
Watchtower released a cartoon encouraging children to part with their ice cream money to bolster organization funds
Watchtower released a cartoon encouraging children to part with their ice cream money to bolster organization funds
So far there have been two instances of a Governing Body member, i.e. Stephen Lett, pleading for more contributions on JW Broadcasting to assist with Watchtower’s “projicks.” A Caleb-and-Sophia cartoon has even been produced encouraging young children to part with their ice cream money for the sake of “kingdom interests.”
Hard-working Witnesses the world over are, it seems, being taken for fools. They would do well to contemplate whether they really want to keep sending donations when these are being so readily squandered by a group of men who are happy to pick the pockets of children (and people who they have mostly deprived of a decent education) just so they can stretch their legs at 30,000 feet.
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Further reading…
◾Article on Stephen Lett begging for money on JW Broadcasting
◾Article on Caleb and Sophia cartoon asking for ice cream money
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269 Responses to No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
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Kat says:
July 21, 2016 at 3:30 am
Not surprised at all, it is a business after all.
Reply
Twmack says:
July 21, 2016 at 3:50 am
@GEM. I agree with your recollections of D,G, he was
a very likeable guy, and you’re right about his JW family
background. I believe it went back before the gramophone era,
and he also told us of his experiences of going around his
his home town Liverpool in the sound car.
I can’t say if he’s still around. I do know though that he has
a nephew, a C,O, who is alive & kicking , also called D,G,
and a friendly man and good teacher.
Bright guys, I feel they must have plenty of reservations
about the Org, after seeing all the so called “Adjustments”
to the “Truth” and how they’re chasing their tail trying to
keep the generation teaching afloat. Maybe they’re just
hanging on in there. It’s hard to quit when you’ve invested
a life time in something. Best wishes T
Reply
GEM says:
July 21, 2016 at 5:29 am
Wow..thankyou TW
That was my recollection exactly…I guess the D.G I knew must be 70+ now. I don’t feel that is right to print his words to me…save to say that the guy (and I guess the family) had DEEP insight.
Thank you for making my day.
All the best G
Reply
Twmack says:
July 21, 2016 at 6:43 am
@GEM, Just a brief comment on D,G. The first time I
met him was when he came to our cong, as a CO.
I was 26 at the time and he was older than me.
I’m now 85, so the odds of David still being around are
not looking too good, hope I’m wrong. / Lloyd, thanks
for the leeway.
Reply
KateWild says:
July 21, 2016 at 7:11 am
Test
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6311801557876736/clickable-link-function
Reply
John Doe says:
July 21, 2016 at 9:08 am
This article is passing itself off as a news article when really it is just something that will get the site views. There is no clear evidence presented that any of this is true. The Watchtower was never contacted for them to give their side of the events that took place and you don’t have any real facts. Yes a person is riding in business class but does that mean that Watchtower paid for the ticket at full market value, were frequent flier miles used to purchase the ticket or the upgrade, was there a negotiated rate with the airline about the cost of the ticket. You also claim that the airline employee told you that the rate was 9000 dollars for the business ticket, but as we all know there is many different factors that apply to cost of an airline ticket the most important was when the ticket was bought, rates change from day to day so you cannot just say the ticket costs 9000 dollars without any other knowledge. And even if it did cost 9000 dollars what does it matter to you, as every person who comments on this website shows they don’t contribute to Watchtower so it isn’t like they are spending your money. You can do what you want with your lives but don’t pass off what you think is a news article just because you want page hits to your page without giving both sides of an argument. You are doing the same thing you accuse Watchtower of doing, only presenting one side of information and not investigating the other.
Reply
dee2 says:
July 21, 2016 at 9:48 am
John Doe,
Maybe you should ask the Watchtower if the GB members fly business class and then present us with concrete evidence straight from “the horse’s mouth”.
Looking forward to this.
Regards.
Reply
dee2 says:
July 21, 2016 at 9:56 am
And John Doe,
while you’re at it, also ask the Watchtower for audited financial statements from their beginning until now.
Regards.
Reply
John Redwood says:
July 21, 2016 at 10:32 am
John Doe
We investigated this report before publishing the article, and have confirmed the veracity of this story. However we will not reveal the source, the airport, the destination country and other private details as this would jeopardize the employment of the agent who reported this to us.
Please note that we welcome comments such as yours from all of our readers, including Watchtower representatives. Our email address is public, and the Watchtower Public Information Office is welcome to contact us at any time, either by email or by posting a reply to this or any other article. We would greatly welcome their response.
We know that Watchtower is aware of this site, and they are free to comment. Their lack of response is most revealing
Sincerely
JR
Reply
John Doe says:
July 21, 2016 at 10:41 am
A lack of comment is not revealing. First of all a lack of comment for article with no evidence does not need to be responded too. Second it is impossible to prove a negative. If you have true facts there is way to redact information in order to be transparent with keeping information confidential. You want Watchtower to be transparent about everything but you want to keep anything you say secret for yourself.
Reply
dee2 says:
July 21, 2016 at 10:46 am
John Doe,
You could simply help yourself by asking the Watchtower if the GB members fly business class and then present us with concrete evidence straight from “the horse’s mouth”.
Reply
John Doe says:
July 21, 2016 at 11:19 am
I am not the one claiming that they do fly business class so it is not my responsibility to do so. If this site wants to claim that they are the ones that have to show proof of it and not just say trust us. This is what this whole site claims they are fighting against, against an organization that says trust us without proof. Either you hold yourself up to a higher standard or you don’t claim you’re better than someone else.
John Redwood says:
July 21, 2016 at 11:18 am
John Doe
As we have pointed out in prior comments, revealing further information with or without redactions will immediately compromise our source. It would not be ethical to do so.
You stated “you want to keep anything you say secret for yourself.” – to what are you referring? Feel free to provide examples. Our research has been accurate, and whenever possible we supply physical documentation to support our articles. We are interested in truth, and whether you believe it or not, evidence is surfacing worldwide to support our articles and research. Are we saying that this business class article is the leading breaking news story of the week? Absolutely not. It is however accurate, and it correctly identifies the practices of the JW Governing Body, who traverse the world dozens of times per year at the expense of the flock, while wearing expensive suits, watches, and pinky rings. The truth is, many Witnesses simply don’t care, or have never really thought about the extraordinary expenses incurred by this organization. Perhaps it would be easier to excuse if this religion was a charitable organization, but it is not. They provide absolutely zero public services. They do not fee the hungry, they do not shelter the poor. They do not reach out to aid anyone unless that person swears allegiance to the doctrine of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I was deeply involved for 46 years – I know this for a fact. I also know that most Witnesses are good people.
It is to those good people that we reach out.
Reply
Markie says:
July 21, 2016 at 5:06 pm
They don’t wear expensive suits. If you look at them and how they fit, it’s quite obvious they are cheap suits. Their ties look like they are from the 90s. As for Hurds watch it looks like a Rolex but I haven’t actually seen any pictures that proves it is. I would say the jackass is wearing an Invicta watch. And do they all fly business class? We really don’t know. Maybe a rich JW bought the ticket for for this GB traveling to Africa. We actually have no idea who paid for the ticket, do we? If we all want to be sincere and honest we must say we don’t know who paid for the ticket but but more then likely the Watchtower probavly did. I do believe the only perk the GB gets is expensive travel. None of them have mansions or big 401k plans. They are all going to die broke!
John Redwood says:
July 21, 2016 at 5:38 pm
Markie
I will leave the judgment on clothing to those who know better than I do – but I know that some of those suits are quite expensive, and others are not. As for the watches, I have never once stated that Herd wore a Rolex, or that Jackson wore an Apple Gold watch. There are those who are quite certain that they are real, and others who are skeptical. The real issue here is not whether the watches and the pinky rings, etc are real, the question is what kid of appearance are they presenting? If Herd was humble and meek, he would not be wearing such eye-catching jewelry. Same with Jackson. Same with Morris. Same for all of them.
As for the tickets – while we will not reveal the source, the airline, or any other detailed information, we did release the cost because we confirmed that it was paid for, and I can tell you from experience that Watchtower has a travel desk in Brooklyn which makes all arrangements for the Governing Body, Branch Committee members, missionaries, and so forth. Their practice is to pay for these tickets, not to farm out their purchase to other individuals. I am very familiar with travel arrangements made for foreign missionaries, for example. Every 5 years the travel desk pays for the tickets for every missionary couple returning for an international assembly. I have seen these tickets and their cost, and trust me when I tell you they are quite expensive. Of course, missionaries do not fly business class – it’s back of the bus for them.
So while it is certainly possible for a 3rd party to pay for tickets for a GB member, and to pay for the luxury of business class, what we want the public to know is that it is the general practice of the organization to purchase all tickets though their established travel desk, and it is becoming clear that more than one Governing Body member has been flying in luxury. What they do in the future may change, and perhaps public pressure will affect their decisions moving forward.
As for the perks- well I can tell you that life in Brooklyn (and Warwick) is not so bad. I have personally spent many nights in many different Brooklyn properties owned by Watchtower, from the Sands building to the Columbia Heights residence buildings, all the way to private residences in Patterson. Just a few years ago I stayed in the personal room of one of the Governing Body members (his room when he comes to Patterson). It was a very nice 2 room suite with spacious bedroom and living room, large walk in closet, and disappointingly small kitchenette. You are correct – they do not have mansions, but the monetary equivalent of their rooms, all expense paid vacations, travel, food, health care, and lifetime appointment are all perks worth more than most of us will ever have.
Will they all die broke? Well don’t be so sure. Ray Franz left for reasons of conscience, and he effectively died broke. But the faithful GB members aren’t out on the street just yet. Religion is still a good business, as this article points out. Hopefully it will be a wake-up call to those still trapped within
JR
Freed Mason says:
July 22, 2016 at 2:11 am
@JR
I totally agree, what is this organisation’s exact FUNCTION?
We are insulting God’s and our own intelligence if we believe that he would only broker a deal with a tiny group of US based men to outsource his communication, judgments and future plans for the entire human population of mankind.
In my mind this organisation serves NO FUNCTION for mankind except as a GRAVY TRAIN for the top 7 employees!
chantal says:
July 22, 2016 at 5:47 pm
@John Redwood,
I agree with the Travel Desk arrangement for big corporations. I was once in charge of making mostly airline, and some lodging accomodations, for big business executives (which of course the GB qualify in definition). It is a routine, BUSY business, and no time for using airline miles, and reservations are made at the absolute discretion of the executive. And in most cases, the airline miles ARE GIVEN THE ACTUAL PASSENGER, to be used for their personal use. Double dipping??
MJ Bachman says:
August 5, 2016 at 9:43 pm
Your comment is unrevealing as well. Providing you with additional information about sources need not be responded to either. The gb only presents one side to everything but in your twarped reasoning you ask us to present facts to you? Im sure jwsurvey has facts and sources unlike the gb who deem themselves capable of interpreting the mind of a god (arrogance). You always use this statement “it is impossible to prove a negative” but do you understand that this statement is itself a negative?
Reply
John Doe says:
July 21, 2016 at 10:47 am
Also if you pass off your opinion as a hard fact as a journalist would then it is your duty to reach out to the other side before you publish an article and not expect other people to respond after the fact. If you want to report as a journalist would and be treated with the same respect that they are then you have to act like one.
Reply
factsnotfiction says:
July 21, 2016 at 12:55 pm
@John Doe
Surely you cannot be ignorant of the fact that Journalists often expose apparent wrong doing without exposing their sources, as to do so would put lives at risk or in this case livelihood. Your comments make no sense. You happily accept the ‘drivel’ put out by watchtower on a weekly bases without questioning it but you want to question this piece of information? Why? If you have doubts you are free to contact WT yourself and ask them if it is true or not! Ask what their policy is as to purchasing Airline tickets for GB members. If they are an open and honest organization, they will tell you. If it was in the UK you could use a freedom of information request which they are bound by law to respond to. And as this is an open forum WT are free to respond. I am sorry Joe but you have no argument unless you have evidence to the contrary.
Reply
Eric Arthur Blair says:
July 22, 2016 at 4:13 pm
@Factsnotfiction
Well said!
Add to that Watchtower’s response to child abuse and their membership to the UN – their denials and attempts to suppress any discussion on such subjects. They go to supreme courts and human rights courts to protect their own freedoms but then suppress those same freedoms in the congregation. This forum represents freedom of expression, the kind that Watchtower denies its adherents, and the site’s articles in general have been a credible source of information, so it has a good track record there. Watchtower is a credible source of disinformation and outright lies and deceptions.
And while Watchtower declares its “legal victories” through its information channels, it tries to suppress knowledge of all the other legal battles it is involved in. My wife and I are now faded, but we are being told by her family to “pray for the brothers in Russia!” Give me a break, pray for the abuse victims instead.
Governing body says:
July 22, 2016 at 10:01 pm
“Their lack of response is most revealing” ??? As an Elder in USA, I can report to you that John Doe is our official response.
He should be disfellowshipped for reading articles on “apostate” websites, but since he is in defense mode, it’s ok.
Jwsurvey – if you think GB flying on business class is luxury, wait until you see what’s happening in branches in developing world. No oversize and complete freedom. That’s why we are consolidating/ merging many branches to have some control over this. Stating 2016, many of this branches now have all new branch member with the older crews re-assigned to special pioneer status in their home country of origin
Reply
John Redwood says:
July 23, 2016 at 10:31 am
Governing Body
I welcome your comments, but they are somewhat cryptic. In what way is the John Doe response “our official response?” Obviously it is not a literal official response, as Watchtower does not and has never communicated in this manner. Secondly it is clear he is responding as a lone wolf, evidenced by his uncorrected spelling and grammar. You state that “it’s ok” because he is in defense mode, but this is completely opposed to the direction from the Watchtower organization. Witnesses are directed to not respond to any negative media attention, no matter how tempting, or how justified they feel in defending the organization. Even the US Branch media department overseers will not respond to accusations against the organization, except in rare circumstances where they feel they have no choice but to make a statement in light of global scrutiny or scandal. (As an example, their response to the United Nations UN Scandal.)
As for your comment on the downsizing of branches, I do not completely disagree with your statements regarding the need to reign in branches which were becoming difficult to control. Clearly the rapid expansion in the past few decades had taken its toll on the organization and its ability to monitor the day to day activities of these branch offices. However as we know, there was an underlying financial element to this downsizing as well, in part due to the reduction in printing needs, and the ability of centralized branches to manage those countries assigned to them. South America is a great example of this.
Hopefully you understand the real meaning behind this article. Organizations often lose sight of their mission, and slowly but surely there are signs which indicate either a loss of control, or a disregard for the feelings of rank and file members of the flock. When you are under the control of such an organization (as I was for 46 years,) you can easily fail to see the forest through the trees, and you can excuse policies and conduct simply because you wholeheartedly trust that organization. It’s like being a Boston Red Sox baseball fan your entire life, and hearing other people criticize the Red Sox, or announce that the Yankees are a better team. It goes against every fiber of your being and is repulsive to you, regardless of whether the Yankees are a better team or not. In psychology this is called cognitive dissonance. It is painful to learn that unnecessary luxuries are being purchased for the benefit of senior Watchtower officials, when poverty stricken Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide often lack basic necessities. A Kingdom Hall in Africa can be build for as little as $3,000 US, which is less than the cost of one business class ticket from New York to Africa.
I know that our readers understand this point. While it might seem to be a drop in the bucket, or insignificant to some, the misappropriation of funds for a personal luxury is the diametric opposite of the goals of a charitable organization.
JR
Reply
Big B says:
July 21, 2016 at 1:30 pm
@ John Doe:
Since you are a Jehovah’s Witness or a Watchtower apologist, why are you even commenting on this “apostate” web site?
Should the ‘unfaithful and indiscreet’ slave, whom you obviously adore, ever find out that you’ve been here, well its the ‘backroom’ for you buster.
You however, would be correct in assuming that the majority of us don’t contribute to the Watchtower as I personally find them to be a repulsive, repressive, hypocritical, pedophile protecting cult worthy of nothing more than a curt dismissal of their ministry, their version of Christianity and their so called ‘spirit inspired’ understanding of the Bible.
Ask yourself this, if you dare:
If Jehovah is infallible and his spirit imitating from Him is also infallible, then why do the ‘unfaithful and indiscreet’ slave have to make adjustments to their doctrine passing it off as NEW LIGHT?
The answer is quite plain namely, they are not influenced by holy spirit, never have been and never will be. The only spirit they are ‘inspired’ by is the spirit of JIM BEAM or JACK DANIELS.
They are just ‘guessing’ and messing with your head and life.
So may I suggest to you and your ilk to do some research into your beliefs before ‘throwing stones’ here. Otherwise you will be like so many other Witnesses, dying disappointed, disillusioned, and disgusted without seeing anything for your work but the inside of your eyeballs.
Reply
JBob says:
July 23, 2016 at 11:17 pm
**yawn**!!!
@John Doe – I agree with your critical thinking here. “Paula” would only be able to detect that the ticket price paid was USD4500 each. It doesn’t indicate whether this was a “gift” by an elite JW and not taken from Watchtower “contributions” or dividend earnings. After all, there are elite JW members who have money–wealth–and think of donating flight tickets, buying Rolexes, top-flight suits, or wherever for a GB member. Quid pro quo still reigns.
And, on some airlines business class is second to “first class,” but for most airlines it is now equal to the amenities found in First Class.
Now, as several new YouTube channels are highlighting, the Watchtower is a business enterprise, first, and a religion, second, if at all. M-o-n-e-y. So, if their leaders are flying business class, it fits the role. And, flying business class is certainly less expensive than the way the GB and others once traveled using chartered jets (and not those dinky little Lears or Gulfstreams, big jumbo jets like the ones some world-class entertainers own, or like the Trump jumbo).
Just because the Watchtower is organized as a “not-for-profit” corporation doesn’t mean, they operate “in the red.” There are scores of non-JW/Watchtower foundations, charities, corporations, enterprises, mutual benefit societies, etc that are also structured as not-for-profit, but these non-JW entities can squeeze blood and money out of a turnip. Likewise, the Watchtower can shake gold out of a withered up drunkard or drug-addled junkie.
But, having added several puzzle pieces over the last few weeks, I have a new take on some aspects of what I experienced way back those 20+ years ago before walking out. Some JW’s will state they have support of elders who came to the hospital when they were having their surgery, or whatever crisis, etc. Strange, I think, when elders seemed incapable of summing a bit of empathy for human issues and offering advice other than the canned answers found in literature or the policy manual. And, there is the answer–the policy manual.
Elders are like corporate managers–they are there to ensure that the strategy is fulfilled, that the objectives are met, and the policies steering the mass of associates toward the enterprise goals are followed to the letter. Thus, the elder is there by your hospital bed to ensure compliance. The elder is there at your little soiree to ensure policy compliance. The elder is there at your wedding to ensure policy compliance. The elder is there at your Memorial (or funeral) to ensure compliance. And, the elder is there sometimes to ensure funds are collected to be forwarded onto HQ. Some managers/elders are better at wrapping policy and compliance monitoring in the costume of human kindness and sincerity than others.
Dogma is only critical as it affects the hierarchy of obedience. Changes that boot out 200-300 people a year, even thousands, don’t matter. After all, that’s why you’re working feverishly to recruit new folks to replace the burned-out and awakened ones. You are disposable and replaceable, even if you’re at Bethel or a circuit rider. Let the scam roll on.
But, JW’s believe in God–and, don’t they care that this flip-flopping can damage people’s confidence in God?
Keep in mind that Charles Russell had become an atheist at one point; once an atheist, always one, I believe. You may flex agnostic but hard reasoning stays with you. So, Russell having sold out everything to follow Barbour and his failure seems to have decided to make lemonade out of his box of fruitcake beliefs and sell it from a roadside stand. As proof, there are a string of odd offerings for donations that litter the pages of the 1800-1920 Watchtowers and Golden Ages–from Miracle Wheat to the electrostatic devices.
Someone was there to buy it.
And, as IRS 503c structures, and as a religion (the IRS classifies as a church, even Islam mosques and synagogues), the Watchtower is not obligated to file tax forms with US government authorities. Contrary to some misguided beliefs, the government doesn’t have these 503c corporations on a leash or under control. Far from it, these religious 503c’s are given First Amendment rights and are excluded from requirements for not-religion 503c’s such as filing income taxes, financial statements, and some Congressional legal requirements are often filtered and phrased to accommodate the First Amendment provisions.
However, there is one issue that can make trouble for a 503c, and that is how are the “directors” and leadership compensation and perks determined. If the Board members also serve as leaders/managers and executives, and determine the perks and compensations received, the “arms-length” guide is not being followed. And, that’s why it’s complicated and murky, since the GB also serve as corporate directors in all entities. They could possibly have lost tax-exempt status years ago if there’s documentation someone can smuggle out.
Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APb1RpfjCrA
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/question-are-nonprofits-finances-public-information-28028.html
https://www.501c3.org/nonprofit-executive-compensation/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_the_United_States
https://www.aclu.org/your-right-religious-freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment
Reply
JBob says:
August 1, 2016 at 1:37 pm
503c = 501c3 **
Reply
Aaron Gallegos says:
August 1, 2016 at 9:47 pm
How about just asking them (GB) if they fly first class?
The problem is you cannot ask them an question that makes them feel uncomfortable. They will give a look of hate and ignore you and make you feel stupid. You can also lose privileges pretty fast and lose your reputation.
Not even Circuit Overseers are allowed to ask them these type of questions as we will be looked upon with disdain and be sent home to get a real life and actually work for a living instead of enjoying the benefits of freeloading off the brothers. My wife comes from a financially stable family but my brother does not. He’s also a circuit overseer for now.
Hope this helps
Aaron Gallegos
Spanish Circuit Overseer in NE USA
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
July 21, 2016 at 11:39 am
The May 2016 Watchtower magazine has an article on page 3 titled, “Settle Differences in a Spirit of Love”. The article, which has no author, states that differences should be settled in love.
When an article such as this does not detail is when a difference between 2 persons end up being illegal activity on one of the parties. For example, when a child is abducted from a home without the consent of the father or the mother. Or, when there is child sexual abuse that occurs inside or outside of a congregation by an elder or ministerial servant.
This is when a lawyer needs to be consulted immediately. Not the Elders. Not the Circuit Overseer. Not a Ministerial Servant. A lawyer. Do not go to the Elders. Elders and Watchtower will drag their feet on this matter. They will stall. Especially when Watchtower ends up being legally responsible for the matter eventually.
One of the main reasons, why the Child Sexual Abuse issue is so bad is that brothers or sisters implemented these rules in the magazines and ended up empty handed. In most cases, they were left with the advice from Elders, “Leave it in Jehovah’s hands”. Or, the other statement, “Jehovah will take care of it in the new system”. These blatant irresponsible statements goes no where.
All these statements state is the following, “The Watchtower society is not responsible for anything and if we go to court we will try to have this matter covered up by the First Amendment”. This will only cause you to be angry, depressed, or suicidal. These statements are superficial and yield no direct results. The best course of conduct is to pursue it in the court system.
If people who are victims of child abuse went to the authorities and consulted a lawyer in the first place, the more transparent the problem would be in the Judicial System’s eyes. Waiting 30 plus years just causes more problems.
All this article does is diffuse in people the willingness to go to the court system to handle differences. Especially when those differences are legal ones.
Reply
Twmack says:
July 21, 2016 at 12:03 pm
It’s always preferable to be able to name a source,
but sometimes the whistleblower has to remain
anonymous for fear of retaliation.
The law allows journalists to protect their source,
otherwise important information of public interest
would never come to light. We rely on journalistic
integrity in such cases.
Honest reporters will always print a retraction for
info, which is later found to be wrong. This is the
standard that JWsurvey holds to.
This benchmark is not adhered to by WT, writers.
Biologist Rama Singh, is still waiting, after over a
year, for a written retraction. After being blatantly
mis-quoted in the Awake Magazine.
One learns over time which sources to trust.
Reply
Outandabout says:
July 21, 2016 at 12:30 pm
John Doe…..you’re clutching at straws, man. Are you here in defense of journalistic integrity or vainly defending Watchtower crimes?
“Pardon me Sir, your delusion and desperation is showing”
Reply
John Doe says:
July 21, 2016 at 12:48 pm
If this site is claiming to be reporting on news then yes they have to be held to the same standard as any journalist. And no reputable organization would say, a person that we cannot name gave us information that no one can see and you just have to trust us. A reputable news gathering service will redact information to protect a source or at least provide further details than this person said this, without any facts backing it up. All they claim that they used to confirm the story was to look up the price of a ticket for the same airline. Again not all the same conditions occurred when they did that, compared to when the GB member bought their ticket. If you can claim you have all the same conditions when you searched for it great that is proof until then that is not a reliable comparison. You have not asked that GB member or Watchtower if they had a negotiated rate with the airline or if frequent flyer miles were used. This site also will report about watches and suits but unless you are able to dissect and find as proof the watch that they wear or the brand of suit that they have on that is not proof of anything. Get facts not conjecture and then you can report it as if it was news and not just an opinion or what you are hoping for.
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Eric Arthur Blair says:
July 22, 2016 at 4:49 pm
I think one of the issues here John is that some people will never be satisfied either way. Even if Lloyd could produce a photograph of the ticket or passenger list, others would just say that it’s been doctored or photoshopped. I guess what many here are saying is that this account rings true given Watchtower’s track record (have you investigated their UN links yet, or the whole child abuse saga?) whereas Lloyd has been a trustworthy source in exposing Wstchtower. And in the past Lloyd has demonstrated that he is reluctant to repeat or publish something without evidence based on hearsay, but in this case the sources wishes need to be respected. And what are we to make of Watchtower’s many cherry picked examples of modern faith in the pages of their magazines and yearbooks, such as when a pioneer has an $80 bill but no money, and then the money miraculously appears from somewhere. Where’s the proof there? (And what are all the other pioneers who prayed and were ignored to make of such examples of “faith”?) Where So I guess it’s a question of who you trust?
I personally think this article’s claims are minor in light of Watchtower’s indefensible position in protecting pedophiles, exploiting its followers (like the work horse in Animal Farm) and their track record as false teachers and false prophets (all of which you can read about and discuss on this site but won’t be able to read in Watchtower publications or discuss at the Kingdom Hall.) Nonetheless, it does add something to the Watchtower narrative and generates discussion. I personally have seen anecdotal evidence that the Governing Body and its helpers do not live the simple life that Jesus did, and have much to gain by perpetuating their lies, whilst simultaneously pointing the finger at everybody else.
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John Redwood says:
July 21, 2016 at 12:44 pm
This is very well said, and it is why JW Survey has “our Promise” posted on the front page, which states: “Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.”
This is the highest level of integrity we can achieve. If we are wrong – we will admit to it.
2nd point – in fairness to the Watchtower organization, there have been a few cases where they have published an apology for a mis-quotation. Of course this is extremely rare. One example is the February 8th 1988 Awake! magazine, page 28. Dr Vinson Synan wrote to the organization, stating that he had been “grossly misquoted” in the April 8th 1987 issue of Awake! The Awake! “editor” responded by admitting that they made an error by incorrectly attributing a quote from another author to Dr. Synan, and misrepresented Synan’s position. Awake then justified their position on the subject of speaking in tongues.
The practice of responding to readers has long disappeared from this organization’s magazines, and the writing and research has descended to the point where they have been able to mis-quote and mis-represent numerous authors and scientists, with no accountability or integrity. If forced, they will quietly change the electronic copies of articles online, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are none the wiser.
You might argue that since they were previously attempting to correct errors, they should absolutely know better, and allow themselves to be corrected. Instead, sites like JW Survey and JW Facts are forced to do this for them
JR
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John Doe says:
July 21, 2016 at 12:52 pm
You also bring up retractions saying that Watchtower should apologize and retract statements made by the Biologist. He may have regreted what he said but that does not mean he did not say it. If it was said by him than it is fair game. Many people regret what they have said to someone for an article doesn’t mean that the organization has to retract it. If he has evidence that he never said it than certainly he would have filed a claim against Watchtower for the printing.
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John Redwood says:
July 21, 2016 at 1:05 pm
John Doe
I think you are very confused. Not only did I not mention a biologist, I never stated that an author may have “regretted what he said.” I suspect you are mistaking my comments for someone else’s, and distorting and confusing them with the Rama Singh story. You should research more deeply before making such statements. Perhaps you should consider printing a retraction 🙂
JR
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Outandabout says:
July 21, 2016 at 11:15 pm
John Doe…..give me incontrovertible proof that will stand up in a court of law that the Watchtower is Gods chosen organisation and I will give you prove to you this article is correct.
Holy Connoli says:
July 22, 2016 at 3:22 am
To John Doe: Give me any proof they are Gods organization that he chose out of all religions I 1918/1919 as they claim. My wife likes to say well, we are the only ones preaching the kingdo worldwide so there is the proof she says! I say Really? You guys are preaching the WRONG kingdom bc you claim it was set up in 1914 invisibly and j
Jesus was installed at that time. We all know that is FAKE and never happened and that the entire basis of 1914 is based on the wrong date of 607 BCE which all scholars and reigipous historians do not agree with. Even the WT knows the years is wrong. So if you are preaching the wrong Kingdom you are giving false hope right? is that what God wants his “ORG” to do?
dee2 says:
July 22, 2016 at 2:01 pm
Holy C,
I recall being given a copy of the publication: GOD’S KINGDOM OF A THOUSAND YEARS HAS BEGUN ITS RULE, by a JW some time ago.
Perhaps you may recall this publication as well.
So, if God’ Kingdom of 1000 years began its rule in 1914 then either:
– there are 898 years to date left for God’s kingdom to rule (2016 minus 1914) with the past 102 years showing that God hasn’t done anything much for mankind;
– OR God’s kingdom in fact rules for more than 1000 years: 1914 to the date of the start of the actual Millennium plus the actual Millennium itself.
John Redwood says:
July 22, 2016 at 2:23 pm
Dee2
Jehovah’s Witnesses taught that the 1000 year reign began at the end of the 6000 years of man’s existence on Earth, not in 1914. Remember, to JWs, God’s Kingdom, and the 1000 year reign are 2 different things. They teach that the 2520 year period of non-kingdom rule began in 607 BCE and ended in 1914 with the enthronement and invisible presence of Christ on Earth. The 1000 year reign was the kickoff to the “new system” of things which followed Armageddon.
Because they taught that 1975 was the end of 6000 years of man’s existence, and they believed the creative days to be 7000 years long, it made sense to them that the 1000 year reign of Christ would be the final 1000 years of God’s “rest” day, the 7th day. This is why 1975 was such a big deal for JWs – it was not simply then end of 6000 years, it MUST mark the end of the world as we know it since there is no gap between the 6000 and 1000 year periods.
Insanity copyright Fred Franz
JR
ScotWm says:
July 24, 2016 at 6:04 pm
John Redwood said: “Because they taught that 1975 was the end of 6000 years of man’s existence, and they believed the creative days to be 7000 years long, it made sense to them that the 1000 year reign of Christ would be the final 1000 years of God’s “rest” day, the 7th day.”
The Watchtower time line states that Adam was created in the autumn of 4026 BCE and he then named all of the land animals. Since there are millions of species, this naming process must have have taken a long time. It was only after all of the animals were named that Eve was created.
After Eve was created, the sixth day ended, ushering in the seventh day, which has not yet ended. While the Watchtower timeline shows 1975 to be the end of 6000 years of man’s existance, this does not necessarily mark the 6000th year of the seventh day.
The time period between the creation of Adam and the end of the sixth day is an unknown entity. Watchtower prophets can still claim that we have been living since 1975 in the time frame that elapsed between the creation of Adam and the end of the sixth day.mm
John Redwood says:
July 25, 2016 at 10:15 am
ScotWN
You are correct about the Adam/Eve gap theory. Most Witnesses have no clue that the organization (under oracle Fred Franz) attempted to explain this gap as the reason 1975 did not transpire as originally thought. Thus, 1975 was effectively extended indefinitely. With the aging and ultimate death of Franz in 1992, any mention of this eventually vanished. Focus was shifted to the generation theory, as the organization had no choice but to explain why those alive in 1914 were dying, but the Great Tribulation was clearly not happening.
This information will be the subject of a future article on 4026.
As for your comment on current claims of Watchtower prophets, I am not so sure you will find any recent WT sources backing this up. However they absolutely hold firm to the 4026 date for the creation of Adam, which will ultimately be one of the daggers revealing the complete lack of harmony between accurate science and the Watchtower’s unyielding position on their biblical timeline
JR
Winston Smith says:
July 25, 2016 at 11:22 am
And, as I have mentioned in other posts, Russell had this date as 100 years earlier, around 4126 BC. Thus he had everything set to coincide with his 1874 chronology. As I recall, the wording in the book Life Everlasting of 1966, written by FW Franz, indicated that new light caused them to reject older theories about the date of Adam’s creation and that was when they proposed the 4026 date. JR, I think that flip flop on dates would be worth sharing in a future article. Let me know if you need me to look up the references for it. I have the sources saved in my library.
WS
John Redwood says:
July 25, 2016 at 11:56 am
Winston
Excellent information, and yes this should be included in the 4026 article. Feel free to email over your sources to contact@jwsurvey.org and we can pick up the discussion there. Cheers
JR
ScotWm says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:57 pm
Regarding John Redwood’s comment regarding the time gap between the creation of Adam and the end of the 6th day:
I am looking forward to your “4026 BCE” article. It appears that a few thousand (or million) beagats were not recorded in the old testament.
And you’re right about current Watchtower speculators no longer using the Adam and Eve “gap” theory to explain away the failed 1975 prophecy. The asinine overlapping generation teaching has filled in the gap.
Caroline says:
July 22, 2016 at 7:56 am
John Doe: One of the reasons why I don’t want to be associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses is because I don’t want to belong to a religion where I have to be afraid of using my real name to make comments on a web site like this. Why aren’t you using your real name? Is it because you are afraid of being disfellowshiped for “associating” with “apostates”? How can you defend an organization where you have to be afraid of identifying yourself for “defending” your religion?
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M Saurus says:
July 22, 2016 at 9:03 am
Ditto. John Doe is NOT a faithful “witness” if he is on this site reading and/or commenting. The rule is not “you can go on the site to defend the org”. The rule is “you are forbidden to go on the site”.
So, JD – you might as well be honest and leave the org right now. Get the shunning started. Because you have sinned by being here….
John Deere says:
July 22, 2016 at 4:51 am
As I said before, Jackson more than likely was wearing an apple watch and Herd was wearing a Rolex. But that proves nothing. You have to realize Witnesses give them these items. When tablets first came on the scene I know of a witness who owned an electronic store. He took Herd there, opened the door and told him to take whatever he wants. When I was a menial little nothing of a laundry boy at Bethel, barely been there 2 years, I was given “green handshakes”, and treated to fancy meals all the time. Some bethelites home congregations put there money to together and bought new permanent bethelites cars so they’d have oen before they left. Bethelites, governing body on down HAVE NO MONEY. Witnesses know this so they GIVE them stuff. If I was treated like I was of course Herd is going to have a Rolex.
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JBob says:
July 23, 2016 at 11:28 pm
I agree with that comment regarding “gifts” John Deere. I think there are bigger issues than the price and class of air travel. I mean I could use this as an example in the overall context of how much money this “religion” rakes in from sincere persons. But, some counter clerk pulling a paid ticket stub which will not show the name on card and card number of the person paying is a ‘slow news day’.
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Markie says:
July 22, 2016 at 5:31 am
Some have said that the GB should be humble and Christ like etc. If they were humble and Christ like they never would have made it to the top of the organization. The very fact that they made it to the top shows that they are not humble. I do believe that most of them appear to be filled with self importance.
I keep hearing that Herd has a Rolex, but has anyone actually ever seen it up close to be able to tell what kind of watch it really is? I don’t think so.
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John Deere says:
July 22, 2016 at 7:21 am
Yes I’ve seen them up close. They all have nice stuff. But so did Jesus pr else the Roman soldiers wouldn’t of cast lots over his clothes.
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dee2 says:
July 22, 2016 at 9:25 am
@John Deere,
Was Jesus’ garment that the Roman soldiers are said to have cast lots for, a valuable robe?
I’ve read nothing in the Bible which indicates that Jesus wore rich clothing.
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Anonymous says:
July 24, 2016 at 12:16 am
@dee I think you just answered your own question. Soldiers were allocated a salary for their duties, for them to dicker over who got the robe seems to indicate it was a garment beyond their ordinary salary. Plus, Judas made an issue of the fine oils used to bathe Jesus’ feet and on and on.
Not saying having a business class ticket, Rolex, or platinum card equates one to Jesus.. frequent flyer points, another option by upgrading into business class.
Let’s supposition that these were gifts to a GB person, should they refuse it and “hurt feelings” of the giver so in typical human manner, they leave vowing never to give or embarrass themselves again?
This is why clergy in other sects use a uniform to avoid distinctions in wealth. Many large size businesses have policies limiting the amount and size of gifts accepted by corporate associates to avoid the appearance of impropriety–the quid pro quo factor.
And, as others noted, it’s the “stumbling others” factor when some one bashing me over the head for eking out a living comes flip-flopping across the stage flashing a new gold tooth and a Rolex.
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dee2 says:
July 24, 2016 at 3:41 am
@Anonymous:
This is the answer which I provided to my question – this answer was posted below:
As far as I know, the Bible states nothing about the quality of the clothing which Jesus wore.
The only garment I know of which Jesus wore, which could be considered rich clothing, was the “purple robe”, according to Mark’s gospel (Mark 15:16 – 25) or the “scarlet robe”, according to Matthew’s gospel (Matthew 27:27-35), which was put on Jesus by the Roman soldiers, as a way of mocking him for being the “King of the Jews”. Purple dyed material was extremely expensive and reserved for royalty during those times. It wasn’t just the fabric – it was purple, a color that was produced with very rare and expensive dye made from a specific species of shellfish (murex). It was a very expensive garment.
The soldiers then promptly took this robe off Jesus before sending him for crucifixion. They dressed Jesus in his own clothes before they led him out to crucify him. Jesus wasn’t wearing this purple/scarlet robe when he was crucified, and the soldiers never cast lots for it. They cast lots for Jesus’ own clothes: Mark 15:16 – 25; Matthew 27:27-35.
If there was any quality/valuable garment to cast lots for, it certainly would have been the purple/scarlet robe provided by the Romans – by all indications, Jesus’ own garments were inferior to this purple/scarlet robe.
Also, the question has been asked as to why would the Roman soldiers want Jesus’ blood soaked torn clothes?
If Jesus was scourged as part of the crucifixion process and then his clothes were once again placed on his wounded bloody body (Matthew 27:26, 31; Mark 15:15, 20, John 19:1) why would the soldiers want to divide up these blood soaked garments? Indeed, if the scourging continued along the route to the crucifixion, Jesus’ clothing would be nothing but bloody rags of no value to the soldiers.
Tara says:
July 22, 2016 at 6:27 am
I think most have missed the point about the clothes and watches, the pinky rings etc. It doesn’t matter if they are made on a 3D printer or bought at a dollar store and painted to look genuine. The point is they are wearing said item in public view. If I had struggled to put together the money to attend a convention, pay for a hotel, feed the kids, try to buy three nice outfits… probably from value village or such like and then got to see the GB on stage flashing what appeared to be a Rolex etc etc then I would possibly feel deflated and annoyed. Sure, everyone wants to look good but these men should be practicing what they preach about ‘showy display of ones means of life’. They should be taking the lead in showing humility in front of their ‘adoring fans’. I don’t care if the things are not real they wear them as if they are and that is just as bad. I am sure the props used in movies are not real but they look real and lead the viewers to believe that the sparkly things are real. Rant over.
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rob says:
July 22, 2016 at 8:08 am
You are so correct in your comments.
Every assembly I attended echoed the same remarks from the platform – do not be showy – do not be materialistic – live a humble life –
What do the GB do? Well apparently they fly first class. And even if the ticket was purchased as a gift for them – shouldn’t they practice what they preach and cash it in and put the difference between the economy fare and the business class ticket in the donation box?
This religion is all about appearances. Its a phony facade because not being outwardly materialistic and putting on a showy display obviously only applies to the rank and file. The GB are above and beyond – their lifestyle and their ever changing doctrine is not to be questioned apparently.
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Winston Smith says:
July 22, 2016 at 8:11 am
Many of the comments here seem like moot points to me. Is it a Rolex or isn’t it? Did the org pay for the business class ticket or did someone else pay for it? All of these points are minor nuances and I see no point in arguing about them.
Here is the bottom line: the higher ups in the JW org are getting access to some of the finer things in life. They get them in exchange for their work: making failed predictions, making intrusive rules, promoting the refusal of medical care, harboring child molesters, and encouraging the shunning of family members. That’s what they sell. And the rank and file just buy it up one way or another.
WS
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M Saurus says:
July 22, 2016 at 8:57 am
Yes, and it is especially noteworthy that they are asking the rank and file to do without and send their savings to them. Children’s ice cream money FFS. It is despicable.
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Big B says:
July 22, 2016 at 3:49 pm
@ M Saurus;
Agree wholeheartedly, they haven’t learned a darn thing since the 1975 debacle. Everyone selling homes, putting off operations, getting married, starting families, etc. Do without NOW for the ‘real life to come’. “Door to door in ’74 to be alive in ’75” was the mantra at that time.
Forty-one years have passed and I wonder where all of these friends of ’75 are now; still in the ‘TRUTH’, still knocking on doors per bono with a message nobody wants to hear or believes, still hoping to cheat death because the ‘New System is just around the corner’?
Do you want my ice cream money, how about my social security you blood suckers? Come and take it you Adventist pedophile protecting charlatans!
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Ejecting to Sanity says:
July 26, 2016 at 11:13 pm
Exactly..and how many of you, during your study before Baptism, were told that the fact that WTwould never need to ask for money was absolute proof of Jah’s blessing on the ‘organization’. We were! Wonder what our ‘teacher’ thinks now. So glad to be rid of the gut ache that life with all that cognitive dissonance creates!
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dee2 says:
July 22, 2016 at 9:27 am
@John Deere:
Was Jesus’ garment that the Roman soldiers are said to have cast lots for, a valuable robe?
I’ve read nothing in the Bible which indicates that Jesus wore rich clothing.
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Sarah says:
July 22, 2016 at 11:58 am
Jesus had a good outer garment, made without seams if I remember correctly. He also had costly oil poured all over him by a grateful woman. But that’s all Jesus had. He had no home of his own to ‘lay his head’. He got hungry at times.
If a person is rich, then so be it and we are not supposed to be envious. But I did find it hard to swallow the travel in business class by people who have taken an oath of poverty. Then asking for ice cream money! I had no trouble believing the story, John. Please keep up the articles. It’ll keep WT on their toes.
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Sarah says:
July 22, 2016 at 12:05 pm
Sorry, got it wrong. John19:23. It was the inner garment woven from the top throughout its length.
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dee2 says:
July 22, 2016 at 1:57 pm
As far as I know, the Bible states nothing about the quality of the clothing which Jesus wore.
The only garment I know of which Jesus wore, which could be considered rich clothing, was the “purple robe”, according to Mark’s gospel (Mark 15:16 – 25) or the “scarlet robe”, according to Matthew’s gospel (Matthew 27:27-35), which was put on Jesus by the Roman soldiers, as a way of mocking him for being the “King of the Jews”. Purple dyed material was extremely expensive and reserved for royalty during those times. It wasn’t just the fabric – it was purple, a color that was produced with very rare and expensive dye made from a specific species of shellfish (murex). It was a very expensive garment.
The soldiers then promptly took this robe off Jesus before sending him for crucifixion. They dressed Jesus in his own clothes before they led him out to crucify him. Jesus wasn’t wearing this purple/scarlet robe when he was crucified, and the soldiers never cast lots for it. They cast lots for Jesus’ own clothes: Mark 15:16 – 25; Matthew 27:27-35.
If there was any quality/valuable garment to cast lots for, it certainly would have been the purple/scarlet robe provided by the Romans – by all indications, Jesus’ own garments were inferior to this purple/scarlet robe.
Also, the question has been asked as to why would the Roman soldiers want Jesus’ blood soaked torn clothes?
If Jesus was scourged as part of the crucifixion process and then his clothes were once again placed on his wounded bloody body (Matthew 27:26, 31; Mark 15:15, 20, John 19:1) why would the soldiers want to divide up these blood soaked garments? Indeed, if the scourging continued along the route to the crucifixion, Jesus’ clothing would be nothing but bloody rags of no value to the soldiers.
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twistedsister69 says:
July 22, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Good point. Just watch “Passion of the Christ”. Not for the faint of heart. 😉
P.S. No offense to anyone – Certainly appreciate your research and intentions, but I personally couldn’t give 2 hoots what kind of robes Jesus wore. It may have some relevance, but not a whole lot, in dealing with this 21st century Internet-age cult.
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twistedsister69 says:
July 22, 2016 at 6:24 pm
OK. Gotta share this one. The “blood” comment reminded me of something that crossed my mind the other day. In the famous “10 Commandments” story of the O.T., the Hebrews were told to sprinkle lamb’s blood on their doorposts so the “angel of death” would not come in and slay their firstborn. Why was that necessary? Could the “angel of death” seriously not tell the difference between Hebrews and Egyptians? I mean, they didn’t even live in the same areas, FCS. WTF??? Sounds like the “angel of death” was a little slow, or hadn’t been keeping up with current events. Maybe Yahweh should have picked another “man” for the job! LMFAO
JBob says:
July 26, 2016 at 10:13 am
twistedsister69 – imho, it wasn’t whether one was Egyptian or Hebrew. Thus, not about ethnicity. Some Egyptians and others not born of Hebrews also left with the Hebrews, converting to the RELIGION of Judaism, thus becoming Jews, or the “residents”–‘ger’. And, later of course, the step leading to Ethiopian Jews.
JBob says:
July 26, 2016 at 8:32 am
I disagree that the soldiers placing a robe of dubious color onto Jesus had anything to do with his wearing robes of lesser quality–it was a mockery of the allegations that he is “King of the Jews,” thus impostor robes of royal hue. Going back to the statement at Luke 7:34, “a friend of tax collectors” (guys who handled and had money due to bribes and so forth), it seemed to indicate Jesus was not living a spartan or stoic lifestyle, even if nomadic.
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dee2 says:
July 26, 2016 at 6:42 pm
Interesting point JBob.
Indeed, the robe which was placed on Jesus could have been a “robe of dubious color” or an “impostor robe of royal hue” if the point of being dressed in purple was to suggest royalty for the purposes of mockery, after all, the Romans were insulting Jesus and mocking him as “King of the Jews” – crown of thorns is as much the “royal crown” as the “robe of dubious color”/ “impostor robe of royal hue” is as much the “royal robe”.
But Luke 23:11 is very definite about the quality of the robe which was placed on Jesus:
“Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an ELEGANT ROBE, they sent him back to Pilate” (emphasis mine).
Whereas Matthew, Mark and John only mention the colour of the robe and state nothing about it’s quality, Luke is silent about the colour but speaks to its quality: “an ELEGANT ROBE”.
The point still stands that the Bible states nothing about the quality/value of clothing worn by Jesus. But Luke’s account would suggest that Jesus’ clothing was inferior to this “ELEGANT ROBE”.
Also, the question as to why the Roman soldiers would want Jesus’ bloodied, sweaty and torn clothes is of interest given the scourging to which Jesus was subjected prior to his crucifixion. Is it that even bloody and messed up clothing still had value? Maybe the soldiers hoped that they would manage to wash the blood out of the fabric once they went home so they could flip the garment and get some easy cash?
dee2 says:
July 26, 2016 at 8:09 pm
@JBob:
“…..robe of dubious color…..”
The dubiousness of the colour is perhaps seen in the discrepancy of the colour reported by the Gospel accounts – according to Mark, which is the oldest account, the robe’s colour was purple, John agrees with Mark; according to Matthew however, the colour was scarlet.
Perhaps Mark claimed purple for dramatic purposes as that colour-word would be appropriate for the occasion; but realizing the unlikelihood of that, Matthew steps it down to scarlet and Luke decided to not mention the colour, since there was no agreement between the two earlier Gospels.
twistedsister69 says:
July 22, 2016 at 6:03 pm
I would like to reinforce the comments already made RE: what difference does it make WHERE or how the GB get all their “goodies” and privileges (i.e. business class international travel). OK, even if they truly do have “no money” (and really, no one is qualified to make such a claim, since no one knows FOR SURE – I personally may have been born at night, but I wasn’t born LAST night lol), and they get the all the goodies and the “green handshakes” from other JWs … WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??? They’re still PARASITES, sponging off other people’s labor, and giving nothing but grief, misery, and heartache in return. I’ve known of Bethelites who routinely went on looong trips (Asia, South America) once or twice a year, paid for by some generous JW benefactor, while others in the same congregation were struggling just to pay the mortgage and feed their children.
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FullyAwake says:
July 23, 2016 at 6:04 pm
The counter on the front page of this website regarding the San Diego Superior Court daily penalty of $4,000 is a complete waste of funds and donated funds. I wonder how big that penalty will get before they cave, if they ever cave with the documents.
So far, it equals nearly 25 business class flights. This is also a huge load of Ice Cream from the kiddies.
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FullyAwake says:
July 23, 2016 at 6:05 pm
The counter on the front page of this website regarding the San Diego Superior Court daily penalty of $4,000 is a complete waste of funds and donated funds. I wonder how big that penalty will get before they cave, if they ever cave with the documents.
So far, it equals nearly 25 business class flights. This also equals A huge amount of Ice Cream money from the kiddies.
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PaxRomana says:
July 23, 2016 at 7:59 pm
Your average Witness is fortunate to have a few hundred dollars in their bank account at any given time. We are now generations deep in a philosophy that secular education is discouraged. This has left adult Witnesses in a position where they struggle to maintain meaningful employment, if they can find employment. They are told to trust in Jehovah and sacrifice is part of the program. Fair enough, until the Watchtower goes on a campaign asking (begging) for funds from the same uneducated masses that cannot find meaningful employment in many cases.
My heart breaks for these folks, many of them well intentioned and good hearted people. Flying business class is a dream for them. But in contrast, most are humble enough not to fly in luxury at the expense of their brothers and sisters.
For Watchtower apologists, please take this to heart. Rank and file JWs are not the concern. The concern is an increasingly authoritarian organization that demands resources from the very members they have limited in their ability to generate resources. Please give that some thought.
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JBob says:
July 24, 2016 at 1:18 am
@Pax – I concur with your feelings here.
Even when people are irked at the Robert Tilton’s of the world, the issue is not that they have wealth, but how they obtained it–through unscrupulous and deceptive practices. Duping persons into thinking they are giving their money over to “godly cause” when it results their prayer request in a dumpster and the funds given to lock box processing.
Watchtower may not have a lock box processor, yet, but it’s fairly the same. Questions go into the HQ policy grinder, or restricted to those allowed during the appointed study times, and donations to the “contributions coffers”.
Watchtower made it seem so simple and easy. Come become one of us, follow these simple instructions (not so simple), then when it’s time you get to fly to Paradise with no bags allowed. Time for departure? Uhmmmm… a little delay but the flight will be ready in another 30 minutes. One hour later, we are waiting for flight in from ___ to provide equipment, and that flight is running behind. So, when will “THIS PLANE” be ready? What’s the delay? Why can’t we take this plane that’s at this gate?? Although, planes are planes and they are interchangeable, THIS FLIGHT will require THAT PLANE which arrives. What time is that? Only a few more minutes, sir, and thank you for your patience.
Ladies and gentlemen, I have been made aware that YOUR PLANE has arrived, but we will need to make some adjustments, again, since it has made its presence at another gate. Please follow the attendant to gate ____ where additional instructions will be provided for THIS FLIGHT.
Ladies and Gentlemen due to a mechanical issue we will have a delay of 30 minutes…..
True story, it happened to me. Original equipment had issues, arriving equipment had issues, so wait for additional equipment to arrive which also had issues. The airline was not forthcoming with details on the issues, so customer service rating for that airline–zero, if not negative.
Reply
Big B says:
July 24, 2016 at 8:44 am
@ J Bob:
Great story and the application to the WTBTS failed predictions of Armageddon’s eminent arrival and ‘flight’ to the New System was right on the mark!
That’s one plane that will never land or depart because it doesn’t exist. Best to take another flight somewhere (anywhere) as the WTBTS airline is a loser.
Reply
Harry Cadanza says:
July 24, 2016 at 10:19 am
I never knew this before. I think it’s interesting so I want to share this info with you.
Wikipedia, Ben Homer
Ben Homer’s most well known works are “Sentimental Journey” (1944), “Bizet Has His Day” (1945) (a jazz arrangement of Georges Bizet’s “Farandole” from L’Arlésienne-Suite), “Shoot the Sherbet to Me Herbert” (1939) “Joltin’ Joe Di Maggio” (1941) and “Mexican Hat Dance” (1941) he was a staff composer for dance band leader Les Brown in 1940. During his career he went on to arrange for the orchestras of Les Brown, Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, and Jimmy Dorsey, and also for films, records and television In the early 1950s he gave up his musical career to become a minister with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses he composed, “Keep Your Eyes on The Prize.”
Reply
GEM says:
July 24, 2016 at 10:26 am
@ Pax Romana: Spot on observations and thank you Cedars for this thought provoking article.
I was a keen Teen that abandoned a fantastic education, jumping one year at Grammar School to join the Pioneer ranks at the age of 16 in the early Seventies. Caught up in the Watchtower Hubris of the time.
I managed c. 6 years as a Regular and c. 4 years in Bethel before the effects of what I witnessed and experience saw me “step down” and finally walk out of the Kingdom Hall. My Field service figures were around 30 – 40 per month even then. The District Overseer gave a pre Circuit Assembly talk to our congregation, on the merits of securing an education to at least A level (UK) and preparing ourselves with Practical skills to assist us in future life. This was delivered after the Elders assigned him to me, as I was very low and disillusioned after my experiences at Bethel.
I am not sure what I expected there really. Certainly, I did not expect asceticism. Pioneering had taught me to be frugal. My diet was poor, my clothing was always neat, but not designer. I even had items out of the Clothing bin at Bethel, and gave no concern that some other Brother within the family had donated them. Likewise I did not expect hand outs from others, and was shocked when I gave my first Public Talk outside of my own Congregation and was offered money by the Elders for my efforts. I accepted only a sum to cover the cost of fuel to drive there in my beaten up DAF (a sewing machine with a chassis donated to me by my Jewish ex-boss).
I just thought that was the general mentality, with the “family” supporting itself so that we could serve the Brothers and Sisters and devote ourselves to intense devotion and training to be Ministers of God. Building a Theocracy, was my sole focus.
It took a very short while after my induction into the Bethel family before the “Rose tinted” glasses began to crack.
Frankly, with the except of a few Outstanding Spiritual men (Thank you TwMack) what I found was an Elitist Meritocracy sucking up to the Wealthy and creating a mock Plutocracy. It began to make me feel sick in the pit of my stomach and we were living like Royals whilst the majority of our dear Brothers and Sisters were struggling in the main to keep life and limb together.
It reminded me of Leviticus 3:16-17 and I Corinthians 4: 7-8.
The Elite feed off the fat, the tasty stuff that is meant for Jehovah alone, and right to the Stinking top they already rule as Kings without us.
I could add, not a few, examples of the almost “Caste” system that exists in this Printing and Publishing Corporation…. No part of the Kingdom arrangement as I knew and understood it before they morphed the Baptismal vows to ensure a vice like grip of fear by a pledge of allegiance to the “Spirit directed Organisation” and set themselves up as the Earthly part.
Reply
dee2 says:
July 24, 2016 at 1:48 pm
GEM:
Your Bethel experience sounds like the live version of George Orwell’s ANIMAL FARM.
Reply
Markie says:
July 24, 2016 at 9:36 pm
I know have mentioned this many times but I am so glad I didn’t listen to the bs about higher education and got myself a few degrees. I have paid a price at the hall for this but it was well worth it. Two of my children have advanced degrees and my last one is still in high school but he will secretly go to school like my other son and daughter.
I think most JWs don’t have the capacity to go so they use the edict about higher education as an excuse. I tell younger ones to get there education just don’t mention it at the hall it’s nobodies business and no where in the bible is it mentioned that higher education is wrong.
Reply
fallingangel75 says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:36 am
Markie, when you say most don’t have the capacity to go, do you mean mental, financial, or both?
Reply
Markie says:
July 26, 2016 at 11:04 am
More in the mental sense. The just don’t have the will power to accomplish something hard that takes years to do. And some just don’t like having to think.
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M Saurus says:
July 25, 2016 at 8:58 am
Do you see how wrong this is? “Secretly” go to school? Seriously? Please raise your kids to hold their heads up high and tell these fanatics to bugger off.
And if you mean financial “capacity” – there are student loans available to anyone who wants one.
Reply
Markie says:
July 26, 2016 at 11:07 am
Its just easier to keep it a secret. Like how some of the elders keep their drinking problems a secret or their wife’s vices a secret. But I do believe it is wrong for the GB to say going to college is wrong. Its not mentioned anywhere in the bible so they are putting a burden on the brothers and sisters.
Reply
dee2 says:
July 26, 2016 at 7:20 pm
Strange how these elders and eldresses are able to keep their vices secret despite the Bible’s assurances:
***Hebrews 4:13***
“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”
***Jeremiah 17:10***
“I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”
***Proverbs 5:21***
“For your ways are in full view of the Lord, and he examines all your paths.”
***Psalm 139:1-4***
“You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar.
You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways.
Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.”
M Saurus says:
July 27, 2016 at 9:11 am
Of course it’s easier to keep it a secret. But DON’T do it! Your children need to be taught to do the right thing EVEN IF IT IS DIFFICULT. Stop the maddening charade!
Reply
Marki says:
July 27, 2016 at 10:59 am
You sound like an elder. What you think is right may not necessarily be right for me and my family.
M Saurus says:
July 27, 2016 at 11:21 am
Sorry, not sorry. I can’t think of any reason why being secretive or dishonest about whether you are attending college or not would be the “right” thing for anyone’s family.
I think you are afraid of the org, which is understandable, but I think you’d be surprised that your children are probably NOT afraid and are only keeping it a secret because of the perceived affect “coming out” would have on you.
JBob says:
July 26, 2016 at 9:14 am
Check out this YouTube channel, TwMack and GEM, I think you’ll find a kindred spirit..
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwCQrHWh41iYHKdDc88EnWQ
Reply
John says:
July 24, 2016 at 11:13 am
did not read all comments here, but I myself simply would never fly economy after reaching a certain management level – so irrespective of my deep contempt for Watchtower and their miserable and dishonest, poor teachings I understand their managers prefer that minimum level … regards from an ex presiding “overseer”
Reply
Mike says:
July 25, 2016 at 3:19 am
Looks like the branch members are reading this website. Last Sunday at the RC a prominent bethel speaker mentioned out of the blue ‘ We fly a lot and sometimes we get upgraded to business class and still pay for an economy ticket ‘ . Isn’t this a coincidence.
Reply
M Saurus says:
July 25, 2016 at 11:01 am
Well, if they are reading here (or having an underling reading and reporting) – I hope they realize that people are on to them now and that it’s just a matter of time before the “rank and file” ask for some explanations. The older “friends” are getting senile and dying. The younger cult members are not going to stand for this nonsense.
Reply
JBob says:
July 26, 2016 at 9:59 am
Major corporations and enterprises hire reputation monitoring services, so no one person has to read postings, but references to WSoc get flagged and the reputation monitoring service reports whether negative or positive, and can supply details.
Start a website named ihate____.org and odds are in a few days any copyright violations will be reported or negative comments refuted.
Reps matter in terms of earnings and/or customer perspectives.
Reply
John says:
July 27, 2016 at 12:28 pm
oh man, I may pay business and get first and this is what I expect – just was invited to give a presentation (not religious nor on any sad cult like WT or Islam) which requires a 12 – 13 hrs flight – if I don’t get TOP flight conditions I simply will not go 🙂
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:51 am
When the Prophet Daniel spoke to Nebuchadnezzar about the interpretation of his dreams, how many different interpretations did Daniel give to him?
Daniel only gave one interpretation for each dream, did he not? Secondary question, did each of the interpretations come true? Yes, indeed.
Tertiary question, did Daniel have to keep band-aiding his prophesies? No. Daniel was right on the first try.
Now, how many times Watchtower Bible and Tract Society interpreted the “this generation” statement Jesus stated to his followers?
See the difference? True prophets get it right the first time. False prophets have to keep band-aiding broken prophecies.
Why do JW’s keep financing False prophets when they keep getting it wrong?
Reply
Big B says:
July 25, 2016 at 7:55 am
@ Doc Obvious:
To answer your question; “Why do JW’s keep financing False prophets when they keep getting it wrong” its because they (JW’s), as a class of people, are uneducated,gullible/credulous (read stupid). The rank and file have their heads firmly up their behinds and blindly follow whatever dogma comes from the ‘unfaithful and indiscreet’ slave.
Once they (rand and file) inform themselves by researching what they receive from the Society, thus pulling their head out of their behinds and stop breathing the poisonous purple fumes of indoctrination they receive at their meetings, then there maybe hope.
I know that is the case for most JW’s because I had my head firmly planted in my behind for over 50 years; breathing those purple poisons of indoctrination.
However, to be fair, a lot has changed in this organization since the debacle of ’75 and few people can recall how different the org. was. The changes have been gradual. This organization has gotten more intrusive into peoples lives, and more paranoid as this assembly clearly shows.
Reply
JBob says:
July 26, 2016 at 9:04 am
Every fiber is screaming at this point, “I was not stupid!!” Gullible maybe, but as we have discussed the Watchtower runs a slick con game–part mind-control, but it was heavily an information control game propagating undue influence, as described here.
I, and JW’s, were trained to find “weak points”–that emotional strain or stress factor that took down your usual guard of reasoning and skepticism. For those born to JW parents, it was “peer pressure” of a socially acceptable form–emotional appeals, always courting JW’s but never committing, etc. Once hooked, the difficulties and doubts were turned into “you’re needing to study more,” or “Satan is trying to tempt you” [some would even scour the house for objects that might be demon familiars–gateways for Satan and “the boys”].
Given the penalties and stresses of waking up, many opted for the “blue pill”. I know some had the August 15, 1968 Watchtower (1975 strongly suggested as the end) tucked away until the “witch hunts of the 1980’s” and increased demands for “loyalty” equated the GB to the role of Mediator for the “other sheep” and the Watchtower/JW communities as = J* G*d.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 26, 2016 at 10:42 am
JBob,
I agree with your comment. As a fifth-generation born-in, I was wrapped in a cocoon of lies from day one. And those lies had been told to my parents and my parents parents, etc. At some point we became adept at telling the lies to ourselves when doubts would creep in. Even when I was a teenager and simply didn’t want to do it (the religion, that is) the thought that it wasn’t true never entered my mind. The lies included the fact that we were some special group with special knowledge and the fear that Satan was out to get us and such.
It took many years for me to develop my powers of reason and critical thinking skills to finally see through the fascade. It was definitely a gradual process.
WS
Reply
Cedars says:
July 27, 2016 at 11:33 am
It seems there is an individual somewhere out there who has such a lonely, uneventful existence that the only way he/she can acquire a glimmer of enjoyment is to repeatedly try posting on this article to spawn the notion that I will be putting proceeds from my future book sales into some charitable fund for exJWs.
I will be doing no such thing, nor is there any requirement (or indeed precedent) for me to expend years’ worth of time and energy in my activism (including hours at my desk away from my family) for free – especially since the body of my work already available, extending as far back as 2011, is available free of charge here and on my YouTube channel (and always will be if I have any say in it).
Nor can it be suggested that writing a book about one’s experience as a JW is an effort at self-aggrandisement, unless you want to level the same charge at the likes of Ray Franz, Scott Terry or Don Cameron. (I have noticed that many trolls and haters who level abuse at me rarely hold all exJW activists to the same standards.)
Speaking of Franz, in case anyone is under any illusions as to my ill-fated attempt to give away a copy of Crisis of Conscience as part of a competition on my YouTube channel, and the ridiculous, manufactured controversy arising from this, orchestrated by a determined core of evangelical/regressive activists, here is a handy summary for the uninitiated: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/42tiif/a_word_on_crisis_of_conscience_copyright_and_ray/
If you happen to have the misfortune of being the sad individual who is making these posts, know that they will be removed as soon as you post them – regardless of the fact that you are fanatical enough to keep switching your IP address. And while I have your attention, I strongly suggest you find something (or someone) more fruitful and productive to obsess over.
Reply
JBob says:
August 1, 2016 at 2:34 pm
Individuals seeking to read scarce edition books can resort to an age old practice: 1) find a library, 2) do a catalog search for the book, 3) if not present, request the book be loaned from a correspondent library hosting the volume.
What happens after one has a real copy in their hands, I can’t advise.
If the book is not hosted in a public library, check with your local college campuses; if you have access to a military post library, check their.
An option for checking whether a book is carried in a local library is to Google the title, then select “Books”, then on the left-hand side choose “Find in a Library”.
Reply
ActigallUr says:
July 29, 2016 at 4:27 am
Back in 2012 I met NJ Gov Chris Christy on a plane. Where was this guy sitting? In the economy seat next to my wife and son.
I never knew that a man like that would fly economy but he said, hey, I’m saving money, just like everybody else.
And yet, these fat Governing Body turds require first or business class?
You can see the difference in their character— haughty, power hungry and disgusting.
Reply
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← No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors →
News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
avatar
Posted on July 25, 2016
charity3Regular readers will recall that the UK Charity Commission is currently undertaking a statutory investigation of Watchtower’s UK arm, which is currently registered as a UK charity, and also of the New Moston Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, also registered as a UK charity.
The aim of the investigation is to uncover “how Watch Tower safeguards children and adults at risk.” The investigation comes as a response to an incident in the New Moston congregation, where former congregation elder and convicted sex offender Jonathan Rose was allowed to directly question his victims in a religious court, his victims being forced to attend as an apparent direct result of Watchtower policy.
Rather than co-operate with the investigation, which would have given a clear signal that Watchtower felt it had nothing to hide, the religious group has instead fought tooth and nail to get the investigation killed off, mounting multiple legal challenges in order to prevent the investigation from even taking place. We have reported on this investigation and Watchtower’s attempt to stop it on a number of occasions
Having failed its challenge at each and every juncture, Watchtower moved the process to the Court of Appeal. Here it again failed, but lastly made an application to the Supreme Court. This was apparently Watchtower’s final available legal move to stop the investigation.
However, it appears that this final attempt has also failed. Jonathan Sanders of the Charity Commission last week reported in a letter the following update:
We opened this inquiry in 2014. Watch Tower then initiated what turned out to be protracted litigation against us. We have robustly defended our position. We were right to open the inquiry. We have won our case in every court that has heard the matter, most recently in the Court of Appeal. Watch Tower then decided to try to appeal to the Supreme Court. I am pleased to tell you that I have learned today that the Supreme Court has rejected their application. This means that there are no more domestic routes of appeal open to Watch Tower. We are therefore going to be doing what we have been doing since 2014, which is continuing with our inquiries.
This is excellent news, as it means that the Commission will now be able to carry out a full enquiry, not only into the disturbing allegations concerning the New Moston congregation, but also of the wider conduct of Watchtower in the general area of child protection.
Given the disturbing findings of the 2015 Australian Royal Commission into the same area of Watchtower conduct, such an investigation clearly has no time to lose.
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← No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors →
135 Responses to News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
Newer Comments →
Stupid4Jesus says:
July 25, 2016 at 2:12 pm
Great News and looking forward to hearing about the lawsuit in Cal to see how much more the court will fine Watchtower.
Reply
Chiafade says:
July 25, 2016 at 2:16 pm
Fantastic news!
Reply
Bad Penny says:
July 25, 2016 at 2:28 pm
Nice one Covert –
I wonder if Watchtower will consider this another attack from Satan? The Charity Commission being used by the wicked one! That really would be a turn up for the books.
Making use of a worldly organisation to save on taxes and boost donations. Naughty, naughty.
The squeaky clean image is fading fast …… perhaps they are not really blessed by God after all??? – Can’t rely on Isaiah 54:17 to get them out of this one.
Reply
Oubliette says:
July 25, 2016 at 3:14 pm
Good news, thanks for the update.
Reply
Sonja Talkington says:
July 25, 2016 at 3:20 pm
My heart bleeds for those who have been abused by this organization. May the light shine on THEM in a PROPER court of law!
Reply
Quendi says:
July 25, 2016 at 3:36 pm
To quote Luke 12:2, 3, “There is nothing covered up that will not be uncovered, nothing hidden that will not be made known. You may take it, then, that everything you have said in the dark will be heard in broad daylight, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be shouted from the house-tops.”
Reply
No Body says:
July 25, 2016 at 3:37 pm
Hey, Lloyd. Loved your latest ‘Worst Convention’ video. Especially Brother Evans vs. Lloyd (?). Can’t remember. I’m starting to know exactly when the videos are going to cut to another one of your ‘Oh, dears’ or ‘Oh, the horror’. LOL. It’s like I’m already starting to formulate precisely the same arguments in my mind as I watch the clips from the convention and then, boom, it stops and you resume your critique making the same observations I had just been thinking about. And to your credit you articulate them exceptionally well. Far better than I. But that’s the Englishman in you, I suppose. I can imagine your parts and talks made more than a few of your ‘fellow workers’ a little sweaty with envy. Yet another potential hidden heartbreak awaiting anyone leaving behind “the world” to embrace the “love and warmth of the true Christian congregation” – incessant envy and political appointeeism.
How about recruiting a team to rewrite some of the Kingdom melodies. Substitute every instance of ‘Je ho vah’ with ‘Watch tow er’ for starters. Your cream slacks and body bags bit was terrific. Parody goes a long way as you clearly already appreciate. And it certainly can’t be classified as aggressive activism, can it ?
Reply
nullandvoidboy says:
July 25, 2016 at 4:14 pm
“THE GREAT TRIBULATION HAS STARTED”……the theme for the new Ass-emblies next year…..unfortunately the rank and file will swallow this poison too, waiting for the world governments to ban ALL religions….except, it’ll just be theirs
Reply
Big B says:
July 26, 2016 at 10:37 am
@ nulandvoidboy;
“waiting for the world governments to ban ALL religions….except, it’ll just be theirs”.
As well it should, I can’t think of an organization more fitting for banishment then this avarice, pedophile protecting, life controlling, soul sucking, Millerite Adventist cult.
Truly, this so called ‘religious’ denomination is now suffering from its ‘Great Disappointment’.
Reply
nullandvoidboy says:
July 30, 2016 at 10:59 am
@ Big B
Don’t hold back….tell us how you really feel? 😉
Reply
Jeffreycanning says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Yee haa…
Reply
Minion says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:41 pm
Greetings to all:
Great commentary CF,
This is no attack from Satan, but from the desert god. Who’s to say contrary that Jehovah is punishing The Watchtower Corporation, doesn’t “history repeats itself”.? 40 years here we go.
But, then again isn’t god in his ‘resting day’ – find your beach with a piña colada or corona beer?
According to Watchtower, if the man named Jesus is now King since 1914 ad, is it Jesus punishing The Watchtower Corporation?
Or does this prove, man made policies as the ones in place inside Watchtower, by Not following ‘the rule of law’ will get you in trouble.
Watchtower, Your Not Above The Law.
For active JWs and Bible students, attending conventions this week or pasted.
Explain, how to shun your fellow Christians, by following these verses about showing love.
John 13:34-35,
1 John 4:19-20, this is another fallacy from The Watchtower Corporation, and another man made policies.
Support The Worldwide Work – to JWsurvey
Peace out,
Reply
Big B says:
July 28, 2016 at 11:55 am
@ Minion;
“According to Watchtower, if the man named Jesus is now King since 1914 ad, is it Jesus punishing The Watchtower Corporation?”
I believe he so. Why? Since the revealing of their tryst with the U.N. This organization (U.N.) was revealed by the Watchtower’s 3rd President, Nathan Knoor, back during WW2 years before the founding of the U.N. as a peace organization in 1945 at San Francisco, California. it should be noted however, FDR mentioned the formation of this organization in his January 1, 1942 Arcadia Conference.
http://masonemerson.freeyellow.com/christianwitnessescom/id200.html
He plainly stated (during a speech at Yankee Stadium, ‘Peace, can it Last’) that the Allied Powers (calling themselves the United Nations) would become the Scarlet Colored beast that ascends out of the abyss of inactivity.http://www.archive.org/details/PeaceCanItLastByNathanKnorr
From that point onward the Watchtower has formerly condemned Christendom (Worldwide Council of Churches) for their support of the United Nations as “the kingdom of God on earth” in both addresses from the platform and in printed form.
Since their outing by the Guardian Newspaper of the Watchtower’s ten (10!) year involvement as a N.G.O. (non-governmental organization) as are the
Catholic church, World Wide Council of Churches, the Dali Lama, the Red Cross, etc. How dare they call the kettle black? What absolute hypocrisy!
I cannot remember a time during my involvement with this duplicitous organization (over a half century in my case alone) of so many problems coming to fruition in so many places. These problems were unheard of namely; pedophilia protection; U.N. involvement; C.T. Russell & friends discounted; memorial partakers on the increase by more than 5,000 in ten years; memorial attendance on the downswing; contributions in decline; New Light issued almost on a bi-annual basis; and absolutely NO END of their troubles in sight.
So yes, I agree that IF Jesus was enthroned during the period of the First World War he is definitely shucking off this counterfeit Christianity who has the absolute temerity of calling itself ‘Jehovah’s Earthly Organization’.
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Quendi says:
July 28, 2016 at 12:19 pm
Actually, the talk “Peace, Can It Last?” was given at the United Theocratic Announcers Assembly in Cleveland, Ohio on Sunday, 20 September 1942.
Quendi
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Big B says:
July 29, 2016 at 7:03 am
Thanks Quendi,
So many talks have been made in N.Y. I thought this one was as well.
I meant to say “I believe he is. Why?” not “I believe he SO. Why?”
Oops.
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Minion says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:51 pm
For got to say:
WATCHTOWER FOR PRISON 2016.
Peace out,
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Doc Obvious says:
July 25, 2016 at 6:57 pm
I hope the judge opens the court room to video recorders like the ARC. I am going to bring my popcorn to see all the Watchtower boners that occur. Any news on the San Diego court case and Watchtower’s contempt of court news? Enjoy the show.
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ScotWm says:
July 25, 2016 at 7:22 pm
The counter in the June 25, 2016 JW SURVEY article reports that the San Diego court case fine has now reached over $126,000, as Watchtower leadership continues its lie, stall, evade strategy. However, time may have already run out: “The court sets a status conference for July 22, 2016 to hear from the parties whether the monetary sanctions have been effective.”
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Big B says:
July 25, 2016 at 7:52 pm
@ ScotWm:
When it gets to several million dollars and an issuance of a contempt of court order maybe the shysters at Walkill will get a clue. My question is this; if jail time is called for who will serve the time for the contempt of court order? All of the seven mental midgets or will they draw lots (straws)? Can hardly wait!
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John Redwood says:
July 25, 2016 at 8:18 pm
ScotWm
We are currently awaiting court documents for the hearing on July 22nd. Watchtower filed a notice of appeal on July 6th. On July 21st WT filed a status report related to the court ordered document production, but the court documents have not been released yet. As soon as we get our hands on these docs we will report the outcome.
JR
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Doc Obvious says:
July 26, 2016 at 8:09 am
Thanks, John.
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Tara says:
July 25, 2016 at 7:04 pm
Wonderful news 🙂
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J.D. says:
July 25, 2016 at 7:05 pm
Giddy up!
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Brad says:
July 25, 2016 at 8:09 pm
This is unreal, i mean when are they going to stop this torment on the children and those who are going through this nightmare. The GB have a lot to answer for.
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Niels Lundgreen says:
July 25, 2016 at 9:53 pm
I just don`t know what to say. Yes, I am very fine with the investigations to protect all the children and who ever are offended. But, I do not understand the politics. Why do the Watchtower do this? Everyone can look into Jesus words and find nothing of this nonsense Watchtower practice, so what is the reason? A sin is a sin, but all we can do is ask forgiveness and obey the law. I mean, as long the law is good, what is the problem then to obey? I am a former witness but to day I am a born again Christian. I was listening to Sinach and found vey much peace. “Festival of Life” London 2016 – That convention in London was not bothering. (you will find it on YouTube (skip the ad) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rekkBNhYmX8) Everyone was dancing and praising Jesus all the time.
So, what is so important about this? Yes, here you can go even if you are not a Christian because of the joy, music and concert. So, thanks to everyone here and praise Jesus all the time. If we do not have Jesus, we have nothing. God Bless.
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Victor says:
July 26, 2016 at 12:56 am
We do not even know for sure if Jesus existed…
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Papi says:
July 26, 2016 at 2:27 am
How then, flavio josefo, Cornélio Tácito, Obra Vitae Duodecim Caesarum, urna de tiago, Mara Bar-Serapião (sorry, I am Portuguese…) etc, mentioned the christ?
You see, lot of historians knew the christ existed. Of course Not everyone was allowed to talk about him, like today’s News are often controled by a few rich people who protect Their interests against the masses
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Roman Castañeda says:
July 26, 2016 at 3:34 am
Has anyone else heard of Serapis Christus? The supposed original Christ? I haven’t done as much research yet, but what I did find was astonishing. However, I am still very cynical. Even so, once in delve further, would I find it true?
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Lynaire Williams says:
July 26, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Greetings Roman. You ask many questions that as yet no-one has found the answers to and opinions are numerous. It is the proverbial minefield and how will you recognise it as “truth”? Thousands will still oppose you..Please don’t take offense if I state, does it really matter? Whether we believe in “something” or just plain “nothing”, is always our own choice. The fact remains, true or false, son of God or not, a man called ” Jesus” made his way into a book that was destined to be read by millions. He was portrayed as saying,” love thyself, know thyself, physician, heal thyself and love others as I have loved you.” Can anyone deny that those words, if followed by us all, would not be of tremendous advantage to humankind?
Roman Castañeda says:
July 28, 2016 at 3:56 am
“Destined to be read”? More like Forged
The question about Serapis was raised due to the question of whether or not “Jesus” existed. The historians who acknowledged such a man lived past the events during a time when perhaps certain believers were so convincing in their beliefs that it was mistaken for truth.
And as for whether or not it’s a worth while life investment, religion serves as a means to keep its adherents submissive. The better aim is Spirituality.
keinlezard says:
July 26, 2016 at 12:45 am
Hello,
hope , hope , hope for all victims !
Sad, sad , sad for all Jw that are real believers but were prisoner of this cult.
Because, WT will accuse the Devil in this attack … and
many of these true believers will follow GB and WT in the “bunker” …
I have no real solution … WT and GB must disapear it’s a fact … but I can’t forget all jw that could be lost 🙁
But this decision is a great new !!! 🙂
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Big B says:
July 26, 2016 at 7:13 am
@ keinlezard;
“but I can’t forget all jw that could be lost.”
We will all mourn the passing of those that will be lost. However, it is their personal choice to follow the Watchtower into the ‘bunker’. Nobody is forced at gunpoint to follow anyone anywhere. Unfortunately follow they will.
Will the sheeple ever wake up or will they stand in line waiting patiently for their Dixie cup of Kool-aid?
As long as the sheeple are satisfied with others doing their thinking for them and being lazy in doing research into the organization, well… I guess we have our answer don’t we.
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Susannah says:
July 26, 2016 at 12:50 am
It is over domestically. They have recourse to the European Courts and the CC is accountable to that decision. I wonder if they will do that?
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James says:
July 26, 2016 at 5:38 am
Its unlikely Watchtower will take it to the European Courts and if they did they are more likely to lose there than in Britain.
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jw.fail says:
July 26, 2016 at 2:02 am
The only sad thing is that our friends and family still captive under Watchtower cage will have to pay for this case, and they don’t even know where the money is going to…
I hope this gets really well advertised to help others to open their eyes!!
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Big B says:
July 26, 2016 at 7:30 am
@jw.fail;
Unless you are willing to contact the newspaper yourself with this information, there is a good chance it will be overlooked.
During the ARC revelations, my son contacted the Washington Post, and his inquiry made it appear in the Religious Section of that national newspaper. It did not, however make our local newspaper here in Tidewater, VA. Too bad. Why, since the Washington Post is the ‘big sister’ to our local tabloid?
Because, locally speaking, J.W.’s are not newsworthy, period.
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Tara says:
July 27, 2016 at 6:33 am
In this day and age some tabloids may also consider it a hate crime or bad blood. I honestly don’t think the JW’s are as big a news item as they think they are. Sure they get a mention for the conventions but they are just classed with all other religions when it comes to abuse etc. We understand the religion so we see how the ramifications of being part of it effect family etc but Joe Public, unless they know a witness, couldn’t really care less. Sad but true.
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Big B says:
July 27, 2016 at 7:46 am
@ Tara;
Very true; Joe Public doesn’t understand the doctrines or ramifications of joining this ‘religion’. All Joe Public sees is a lot of volunteer ‘cold calling from door to door which is something he wants no part of.
Joe doesn’t see (and probably doesn’t realize) the polices concerning disassociation, or shunning and the heartache caused for families due to un-scriptural cultist beliefs.
You can’t even mention the child abuse investigations to Joe because of the Watchtower’s effective cover-ups which have been going on for decades. Joe would have a hard time wrapping his head around something that’s not covered by the local news.
Yes, very sad but very true.
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peggy says:
July 27, 2016 at 11:15 am
Big B, Hello there. I live in Tidewater VA. I am glad you tried to get this information into the local Pilot newspaper. I read the WPost and it was good it got in. It is funny how I ran into someone from my old congregation and she asked whether I knew about the convention. Yes, I replied. Hope to see you there she says. I will not be attending, I inform her. Please, I have not been to a 2 hour meeting in 2 years, so sitting for 3 days at Hampton convention center is not something I would do.
But, watching these poor people slowly walking around in the 99*heat passing out invitations is heart breaking.
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Big B says:
July 27, 2016 at 2:10 pm
Yes indeed, beautiful Tidewater, VA!
Home of the Atlantic Fleet and Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock the ONLY place in the U.S.A. that constructs nuclear aircraft carriers.
Also Jamestown, beginning of the first permanent English settlement in the New World, (1607) and where English colonialism ended, 13 miles away, at Yorktown (1781).
Tidewater is place where the first battle between ironclad warships, the USS Monitor and the CSS Virginia (formerly USS Merrimack) right in the James River near Hampton where the assemblies are held at the Colosseum.
To anyone reading the above, ya’ll come on down to the land of easy living and great eating! Everyone is welcome in Virginia! (end of commercial) 🙂
I too, remember those scorching 99+ F heat of summers past. Our last convention was the summer of 2013, Friday afternoon. Our last talk, ‘Believe Inspired Truth Not Inspired Error’ delivered by Bro. Tate; who at the time, was head of the Congregation Building Committee. I heard him plainly state “anyone seeking a higher education in this system of things is making themselves a tool of the Devil”.
That was our family’s last convention and last address. Thank God.
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Winston Smith says:
July 27, 2016 at 8:50 pm
2013 was my last convention too. I had finally come wide awake by the end of 2012, but I went to the convention to appease some family members. I don’t think I went all three days – kind of a blur now. I just remember trying to do anything but listen to the psychobabble coming from the stage. I am couple states away from you all in VA, won’t say exactly where as I still try to maintain some level of anonymity.
WS
peggy says:
July 29, 2016 at 6:18 am
Big B., Great commercial, although with rising ocean levels, I am considering moving to higher ground. My last convention was 2013 and I was only putting in a appearance, get any releases,and to see a sunday drama, and check out after wards. The comment about higher education being a devils tool, plainly tells of their fear young people will learn to use their minds. I sent my daughter to ODU. She is a very gainfully employed young lady w/ a civil engineers degree.And, she does not appear to be possessed by the boogie man. Chuckle and a smirk.
Take care,
peggy
Maurice Le Pavoux says:
July 26, 2016 at 2:30 am
Very true Susannah their appeal to the European Courts may mean the Watchtower could still win, Britain will be in the EU for a couple of years yet.
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Papi says:
July 26, 2016 at 2:33 am
What else can we do to free people from watchtower and others organisations That make profit on christians? As JFK told se were born to be free and independant. And jesus si the Only Way, No need of organisations to stoll our lifes and money.
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Simon Ellis says:
July 26, 2016 at 3:45 am
Great News . Hopefully article 50 is triggered soon so as to stop their appeal to the European courts .
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alanv says:
July 27, 2016 at 6:55 am
Thats interesting Simon, I hadnt thought of that. Presumably they will only be able to appeal to uk courts when we have left EU
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Twmack says:
July 26, 2016 at 7:27 am
The Catholic Church still have their tax exemption status,
despite the alarming amount of pedophilia and the
unconscionable suppression of evidence. Offending priests
moved to other dioceses, (Free to offend again). Victims
bribed to keep quiet.
Scientology had tax exemption revoked in 1967, but after
swamping the IRS with law suits it was reinstated in 1993.
The law at present seems to be “hog tied” in this area.
These examples I’m sure will be used as precedents by WT,
and they could drag it out for decades before they get their
deserved comeuppance. So I’m holding back on the
Champagne for now.
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Winston Smith says:
July 26, 2016 at 8:06 pm
One good thing is that the Watchtower Society has neither the resources nor the following of the Catholic Church. And at least the Church does some REAL types of charity work – not so the Watchtower.
WS
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caltanzee says:
July 26, 2016 at 7:37 am
Time for the pompas GB to come down from they egomaniac pompensity of exclusiveness.Realize their areno betterand the phaedophiles they protect.Time for full disclosure and exposure.
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Twmack says:
July 26, 2016 at 11:50 am
I don’t think the R & F will be swayed by any bad
publicity. Their only worry will be facing up to people
in the ministry. We were always a little apprehensive
if there had been a bad story about us in the press.
Our presiding overseer would calm us down by
saying “Don’t worry, they only read the back pages,
for the sports news”
It’s the same with Catholics, although there’s been
a world wide outpouring of really bad stuff against
their religion. To them it’s still the one true apostolic
church. I still see them going down to mass every
Sunday.
I was brought up Catholic and the indoctrination was
intense. First lesson every morning was Question and
answers from the Catechism, stressing the unique
position of the Church.
But when it comes to Brainwashing, they are just
amateurs compared to the WT
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Saul says:
July 26, 2016 at 3:45 pm
I do want to say this, please do not attack each other, I wish. In my dreams. Some former members of Jehovah’s Organization have an appetite for destruction for their former faith. They’re not the most reasonable persons to deal with. It’s not so important to me what the decisions of others are, what matters to me is what the truth is. One reason why I rarely participate on any discussion board is because I notice to many times some have a preconceived vendetta against Jehovah’s Witnesses and I hate that. I notice people sign off with lmFao. I hate that. It’s so insulting. I hate that. I notice people call JWs sheeple. I hate that. It’s insulting. I’m writing this to explain why I hate this and why I stay away and I will never return. I don’t need the upset and stress. By.
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Saul says:
July 26, 2016 at 4:13 pm
Dudes… At first a mob in Africa didn’t understand ebola. The mob invaded the hospital tents, ran through the blood on the floor. Some grabbed a matrice and the patient laying on the matrice hugged the matrice and he ended up being left in the middle of a street, laying on the matrice. It took the mob three months before they understood it was a virus and not voodoo. I saw that on a documentary. It was interesting. Well, if you compare ebola with brain washing. You won’t belittle, reidicule, insult, or degrade the victim. You work at helping the victim. That’s why it makes me feel so angry when I read sheeple and lmfao and that kind of garbage. Enlightenment is beautiful. It needs to be done with maturity, without insults. It’s a skill. Insults closes the minds of people who are starting to wake up. No need to be so negative and insulting. It drives me NUTS.
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Saul says:
July 26, 2016 at 4:16 pm
Can you imagine? The patient ended up laying in the middle of the street, on the matrice, and he was looking around and he looked confused.
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Saul says:
July 26, 2016 at 4:19 pm
P.S. my name isn’t Saul and this is the fifth time I’ve said I’m never coming back but I always do come back. It took me five minutes to calm down. I hope I didn’t make anyone to mad by my first post. I had a thistle up my butt. 🙂
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Minion says:
July 27, 2016 at 8:06 pm
What did you say?
Matias says:
July 26, 2016 at 11:01 pm
I have been brain washed since I was born until I was about 20. I know what it is like. After unbrainwashing myself, it still bothered me when people mocked jws for preaching, because I thought they didn’t understand what jws intentions are.
Now, I mock jws myself and think that is a good thing to do. Mockery creates doubt (which is great), emotional discomfort (which is good for getting people out and preventing people from getting in) and a social negative attitude towards them. The only downside I can see with mockery is that it increases feelings of martyrdom and “not of this world”. All in all, I’ll go for mockery.
(Of course, education, emapthy and blah blah are also great. But their being great has nothing to do with mockery being useful or not)
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M Saurus says:
July 27, 2016 at 9:06 am
Saul – they ARE sheeple. Sorry, truth hurts. I hate when people say “I hate that” over and over again. LMBFAO.
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Sven says:
July 29, 2016 at 4:40 am
What is LMBFAO?
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M Saurus says:
July 29, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Laughing My Big Fat Ass Off
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BeardsAreSinAskJesus says:
July 26, 2016 at 11:03 pm
Fantastic news, keep pushing
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KTMmadBrit says:
July 27, 2016 at 1:58 am
Saul. I have no idea what ImFao stands for but what get’s my goat is peeple thet kan’t spell werth shet.
Too means excessive. As in too many o’s.
To is going somewhere.
Don’t use spell check to correct it is yewsless.
Oh yeah! Good news about losing their rotten appeals. Let’s hope they lose charity status. I have given far too much in the past to that grasping, materialistic cult. Like the ‘Jesus freaks and Holy Rollers’ they hide their greed for money behind over-emotional ‘Christainity’.
I like that bumper sticker… “Jesus Loves You…But I’m his favourite”.
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KTMmadBrit says:
July 27, 2016 at 2:21 am
Back again. On the subject of mockery and whether it is good or bad.
Mockery, sarcasm, cynicism, lampooning and parody (even sneering) are perhaps not the best weapons of choice if your objective is to convert to your way of thinking.
However, when dealing with non-thinkers who just think they are thinkers (like JWs) it can be a stimulus as it may shock one into a fresh realization of how absurd their viewpoint was/is.
Of course, the amusement provided by witty sarcasm may greatly please those who see the fallacy of the JW teachings, but it can tend to lock the believers into a self-protective mental state. Though ashamed and worried by the exposure, they protect themselves with old comforters like “It’s the Devil’s world attacking us”. They skip down the road with their fingers in their ears shouting “Lalala I can’t hear you!”
I’m from England so we love biting sarcasm, witty retorts, clever lampooning. Mockery is seen as a bit cruel and self-satisfying for shallow people yet sheer frustration with stubborn, ‘ignorance is bliss’ JWs can induce extreme mockery.
I say, let the p*ss-taking begin!!!
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Big B says:
July 27, 2016 at 8:28 am
@ KTMmadBrit & Saul;
I believe that LMFAO is the abbreviation used for (Laughing My F$#k’in Ass Off).
However, as far as the expression ‘Sheeple’ that Saul has a problem with, may I explain respectfully what I mean when I use this adjective when describing Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Firstly, all of us will agree, that as Jehovah’s Witnesses we did little ‘outside’ research into their beliefs or policies before joining this ‘group’. We
were satisfied with explanations given to us by our parents or study conductors, period.
Then, for many of us, months became years which, in turn, became decades of listening to the poisonous purple fumes of propaganda. The ‘faithful slave’ said “jump” and we responded with a resounding “how high?”
My experience has shown me that all Jehovah’s Witnesses are currently or were, at one time, ‘sheeple’. Willing to follow unquestioningly blind shepherds who are intentionally leading their flock aimlessly to the land of ‘nowhere’ as fast as they can but are still guessing as to the directions, which they are to proud to ask for.
My use/definition of ‘Sheeple’ refers to anyone that follows anybody, political party, religious authority etc. without question. The cure for anyone like this is a shocking experience or revelation which forces them into ‘research mode’.
For me it was the U.N. membership that I stumbled upon while doing innocent research. What poor blinded ‘sheeple’, like myself, would even consider such a thing as the Watchtower has identified the U.N. as the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast? And who supports (rides) the beast but a whore named Babylon the Great, etc?
Conclusion: what does that make ME, a whore-monger for enticing others to join this/our religion?
Now through research, my family and I can proudly say “Been there, done that! We have a tee shirt.” On the tee shirt is a picture of a sheep with the circle enclosing it and diagonal line across it (international for ‘NO’). Directly under that is written proudly in bold letters “NO SHEEPLE”.
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M Saurus says:
July 27, 2016 at 9:00 am
Big B – It’s actually Laughing My FAT Ass Off – but I like yours better.
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Big B says:
July 27, 2016 at 1:38 pm
@ M Saurus;
Leave it to me to get this wrong with the worst possible scenario. Oh well. It wasn’t on purpose and I hope I didn’t offend anyone.
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Winston Smith says:
July 27, 2016 at 9:53 am
@Big B,
I always assumed the F in LMFAO was the F-word too. I certainly understood what you meant by the term sheeple and never took any offense to it.
@Saul – lighten up “dude”
Jesus pulled no punches when describing the Pharisees and scribes, why should we have to walk on egg shells around Jdubs? Call a spade, a spade, I say. I spent too long in a mind control cult where I had to make sure every word I uttered was in line with their “present truth.” Now that I am free from their clutches, I have no desire to relinquish my freedom of speech for anyone.
WS
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Big B says:
July 27, 2016 at 1:34 pm
@ WS
I don’t plan to discontinue my use of the expression ‘Sheeple’. It beats other alternatives in describing ‘lazy, un-thinking, automatons; which is what JW’s have become.
Others may try to silence us with their ‘political correctness’ which is nothing more than a discussion/conversation killer.
However, if you don’t like the discussion or enjoy other’s opinions then, like the T.V., you can change the channel or leave. In other words: don’t go away mad, just go away. 🙂
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Big B says:
July 27, 2016 at 1:41 pm
The above comments were meant for Saul and others who, are too easily offended. Don’t be offended at the message or the messenger.
Everyone is free to comment here and believe whatever they choose; unlike the Kingdom Hall.
free@last says:
July 27, 2016 at 10:21 pm
wow…”present truth” I totally forgot about that phrase! Isn’t it funny how jw’s have their own language which seems normal while your in, but super creepy once you wake up? Isn’t something that’s true always true? Shouldn’t “present truth” and past truth be the same? Unless of course the past truth was a lie and you have to make up new stuff in the present. Now whenever I hear jdub speak my eye starts twitching a little. Here are the ones that I hate the most: “make the truth your own”; “taking in knowledge”; “present system of things”; “Christendom”; “new world”; “interested ones”; “theocratic”; “kingdom interests”
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free@last says:
July 27, 2016 at 10:33 pm
I forgot one: “everlasting life”
Winston Smith says:
July 28, 2016 at 9:18 am
As I recall, words and phrases that have special meaning only known to members are indicators of a cult.
“Present truth” was a term frequently used by Russell and Rutherford. It has been less used in recent years, as the concept is more commonly referred to as “new light” now.
I hear you on the reaction to certain words and phrases. I find that when I hear certain phrases in other contexts, they still conjure up the old connections from the Jdubs. Example, last week a colleague of mine used the phrase “fear of God” which brought up different thoughts for me than he may have intended.
WS
openmind says:
July 28, 2016 at 11:33 am
How about “route calls”, “on/in the work”, “uplifting comments”, “brotherly love”, “fleshly family”, “happiest people”, “wait on Jehovah”, “donation arrangements”, “meeting clothes”, and the really annoying supid one “need greaters”. Ugh!
Big B says:
July 28, 2016 at 12:12 pm
@ free@last;
Stop it, stop it right now, you’re killing me! Ha, Ha, Ha, chortle, guffaw! Those buzz words are hilarious! Only JW’s understand this Orwellian New Speak.
My brother and I exchange greetings when we pass each other in our autos. We scream “NEW LIGHT!” at each other. The neighbors don’t get it, but its an inside joke. INGSOC ya’ll!
LMFAO! (the F is for FAT)
Telescopium says:
July 29, 2016 at 3:57 pm
And don’t forget the witty sayings, like:
“Seven days without service makes one weak.”
“Start a study. Stay an hour.”
“Do the Pioneer shuffle.”
“HBH – Home but hiding.”
And its variant:
“HBN – Home but naked.”
“Keep reaching out for more privileges.”
And from my personal experience “door surgery” is where the stupid little tract won’t slip past the door’s weather stripping, requiring some close, focused persuasion. Truly an awkward moment for the householder to show up.
And finally, a “tract bomb”, invented by my friend to give the widest possible range of interesting subjects to a not-at-home. Just wad up about 50 different tracts and place them in the inner handle of the door. When the householder returns- BOOM!
Something is bound to interest them!
Bad Penny says:
July 30, 2016 at 3:33 pm
HBH was one we used all the time, but HBN was a new one on me. I actually did call on a naked man on one occasion. He opened the window in his downstairs flat just sufficiently to hide his agenda. I think he did it to make me blush. I just said I’d call back when he was more decent! Tee hee! Oh the joys of ministry!
James Broughton says:
July 27, 2016 at 9:11 am
That was good news. I hope the increased publicity will cause people to investigate the claims and come to a fair conclusion, including the Witnesses themselves.
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Wanderer says:
July 28, 2016 at 1:56 am
I googled Jehovah’s Witness two witness rule the other day. The Wicki page ranked second on the Google search, it reads like a JW publication. I’ve heard that you can edit Wicki, surely someone from the JW IT department has.
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Winston Smith says:
July 28, 2016 at 9:21 am
They are definitely masters of propaganda and PR. Perhaps not as clever as Scientologists, but close.
WS
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WideAwake says:
July 28, 2016 at 11:15 am
This may be a little off point, and I haven’t gone to a convention in years. The last one I visited was in the eighties. My question is this: Are they selling their new slick, emotionally manipulating videos or are they giving them away? If they’re selling them, for how much? Thanks in advance.
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Winston Smith says:
July 28, 2016 at 3:42 pm
They are giving them away and simply suggesting a donation be made. Much is now available for direct download, I believe. Videos are now a frequent part of both meetings and convention programs.
WS
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Twmack says:
July 28, 2016 at 11:54 am
Cult phrases, — “Quota’s”– Did we reach our quota’s
this month Bro’s.? Could any sentence sound less
spiritual ? Did Jesus set the apostles specific targets
when he sent them out?
There is a bible example of people being set quotas,
but they were slaves in Egypt. Ex, 5,1-17
Another puke inducing phrase was “Happyfying” Ugh.
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Average Joe says:
July 28, 2016 at 3:16 pm
A purely made up WTS word. Not in the English dictionary nor an American one. I remember being at a meeting in Geordieland back in the 90s at one Watchtower when this was a buzzword and the conductor asked if anyone had any idea what it meant. Nobody did so he say “Howay it’s probably just one of Freddy Franz’s made up words, man!” He hit the nail right on the head!
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 28, 2016 at 3:47 pm
Remember when “glean” was the latest buzz word? “What can we GLEAN from this scripture?” “What can we GLEAN from this paragraph in the Watchtower?” Eck!
I think these buzz words worked well on poorly educated, indoctrinated people who got a feeling of superiority and elitism by using them.
WS
Reply
Stay faded says:
July 28, 2016 at 4:17 pm
You do not have the answers.
Reply
factsnotfiction says:
July 28, 2016 at 4:39 pm
Ah! You’d be surprised, we have answers to most things!
Reply
factsnotfiction says:
July 28, 2016 at 4:40 pm
Of course they may not be the answers you where looking for but ‘hey ho!’
Reply
Victor says:
July 29, 2016 at 2:28 am
Do you?
Reply
free@last says:
July 28, 2016 at 6:18 pm
@ openmind – “fleshly family” I’m cringing! That has got to be one of the dumbest ones for sure. And aren’t you glad that we don’t have to suffer anymore in those uncomfortable “meetings clothes”? Here’s to sleeping in on Sundays and staying in our pajamas 🙂
@ Big B – you and your brother sound like a good time!
@ Winston – I totally remember “glean”! that’s an oldie but a goodie.
They have a total cult language, but in my family we kids we told over and over again that we needed to make comments “in our own words” which is an oxymoron. It seems like we are all from the same JW 80 & 90’s generation.
Reply
Bad Penny says:
July 29, 2016 at 3:53 pm
And what about, “and what goals have you set for yourself lately”?
Always pushing, pushing. Never quite good enough!
Reading the cult language again has made my blood run cold. It’s the stuff of nightmares! Thank goodness I’ve left the ‘light’, sorry shite behind!
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 6:40 am
Bad Penny,
The pushing you mention reminds me of the passage in scripture that says they are “always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
For all the studying that Jdubs are required to do, they never grow as individuals. The “studying” is mere route of memorizing Watchtower rhetoric and platitudes with no real substance. And since Watchtower frequently changes their interpretation of scripture, they have to constantly go back and relearn that which was at one time already known.
I guess that was one thing that did it for me. From my perspective, learning should be progressive. Once I had put myself through a university education, I continued to expand the depth of my learning and simply outgrew the JW inanity. It was at that point at which my awakening first began.
WS
Reply
free@last says:
July 31, 2016 at 10:37 am
agreed. How can you call it a study or a discussion when the org provides both the questions and the answers. The could save themselves a lot of time if instead of publishing magazines and books they just send everyone home with a bunch of flashcards to memorize.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 6:25 am
@free@last
That would be a fairy accurate assessment of the years in which I came of age in the JW cult.
WS
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 6:42 am
Meant to write “FAIRLY accurate.”
Reply
QuietObserver says:
July 28, 2016 at 7:10 pm
Covert Fade, do you have a direct link to a news article highlighting that the Supreme Court turned down their appeal? I would dearly love to be able to send it along to some “still in” family members. They have asked about the ARC, but seem to be unaware of the events in the UK.
Reply
Average Joe says:
July 28, 2016 at 11:54 pm
Here’s the latest one I could find from the official website dated March 2016:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/court-of-appeal-gives-judgment-in-court-case-by-jehovahs-witness-charity
Reply
Sven says:
July 28, 2016 at 11:50 pm
Thanks Covert. That is very good news! Add to that, In Sweden many are leaving now after the conventions; whole families and especially elders. I believe the Internet has opened the eyes of many just like it did for me 15 years ago.
So, let us be brave and keep up the good work.
Reply
Freed Mason says:
July 31, 2016 at 11:21 am
Interesting news Sven.
I am sure the Charity commission investigation will help our former friends and family evaluate the cost of being part of this organisation.
As I was driving past the recent convention in Milton Keynes (UK), I was thinking the exact same thing. The average JW surely smells a rat here.
The convention in my experience was usually a time of introspection and self examination for those of geniune heart, however the commands to believe unconditionally, rat out former friends and family, EFT machines at the hall, jw.org idolatry and the increasingly patronizing tone of the talks are starting to take their toll.
To leave would be an inevitable conclusion most normal JWs would come to in increasing numbers.
Leaving as an entire family means there is no one left to shun you.
People who create their own drama deserve their own karma!
@Lloyd – Good luck with the arm!
Reply
rob says:
July 29, 2016 at 7:27 am
One of my favorite witness phrases:
“are you regular?”
LOL
Reply
dee2 says:
July 29, 2016 at 12:47 pm
No. I’m suffering from constipation. LOL.
Reply
Sven says:
July 30, 2016 at 2:05 am
Here’s another one: “weak publisher”, or “weak in the truth” if not handling in one’s monthly ‘preaching’ report to the bosses in the Kingdom Hall.
What stupidity. Like salesmen. I was about as dumb myself.
Reply
Big B says:
July 30, 2016 at 11:00 am
@ Sven;
If you’re not getting paid for your ‘cold calling’ door-to-door sales, then why in the world are there monthly time sheets required?
I know that they are tabulated to produce the brag sheet for yearly publication however, could there be another reason? Perhaps having to do with tax write-offs or proving they are a ‘charitable, volunteer organization’ or something else?
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 6:47 am
And of course there is the control aspect of turning in reports. Gives them a way to monitor and control you. I used to be the congregation secretary’s assistant and then later the secretary. So I can also say that it creates a fair amount of busy work for the elders, juggling a bunch of meaningless numbers and chasing down delinquent reportees.
WS
Reply
free@last says:
July 31, 2016 at 10:22 am
yeah, the “weak in the truth” one used to drive me nuts. It’s so judgmental. Who are we to decide who is and who isn’t following their religion to the best of their abilities? That is what is so sad about most witnesses, they really could care less about how you really feel, what you believe, or what is in your heart just as long as you look the part and maintain appearances. I almost lost it with my mother in law said that she is just sad because my husband and I “don’t have a relationship with Jehovah” I then asked her, “how do you know who God has a relationship with?” Of course she didn’t have an answer. I told her that she is allowed to have her own beliefs but I will not allow her to come to my home and tell me who I am in His eyes.
Reply
Deano says:
July 29, 2016 at 1:36 pm
Feel overall they have shown them self’s up 100% hear,trying to appeal against the investigation is saying theirs something to hide as its put hear,any thing such as Qoute-“how Watch Tower safeguards children and adults at risk.” would be open arms to cooperate in “normal circumstances”and with the Charity’s Commission it will be professional and detailed and by “Law”to,and yet the watchtower wanted to stop this..well its going to be interesting to see the out comes…
Reply
Outandabout says:
July 30, 2016 at 1:48 pm
As far as I’m concerned, if Cedars eventually makes a fair bit of money from this site, or from writing a book or whatever, I say good luck to him and he deserves every penny. The whole team does. They’re providing a service of far greater use than the Watchtower and deserve tax free status for their efforts.
Reply
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← No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors →
News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
avatar
Posted on July 25, 2016
charity3Regular readers will recall that the UK Charity Commission is currently undertaking a statutory investigation of Watchtower’s UK arm, which is currently registered as a UK charity, and also of the New Moston Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, also registered as a UK charity.
The aim of the investigation is to uncover “how Watch Tower safeguards children and adults at risk.” The investigation comes as a response to an incident in the New Moston congregation, where former congregation elder and convicted sex offender Jonathan Rose was allowed to directly question his victims in a religious court, his victims being forced to attend as an apparent direct result of Watchtower policy.
Rather than co-operate with the investigation, which would have given a clear signal that Watchtower felt it had nothing to hide, the religious group has instead fought tooth and nail to get the investigation killed off, mounting multiple legal challenges in order to prevent the investigation from even taking place. We have reported on this investigation and Watchtower’s attempt to stop it on a number of occasions
Having failed its challenge at each and every juncture, Watchtower moved the process to the Court of Appeal. Here it again failed, but lastly made an application to the Supreme Court. This was apparently Watchtower’s final available legal move to stop the investigation.
However, it appears that this final attempt has also failed. Jonathan Sanders of the Charity Commission last week reported in a letter the following update:
We opened this inquiry in 2014. Watch Tower then initiated what turned out to be protracted litigation against us. We have robustly defended our position. We were right to open the inquiry. We have won our case in every court that has heard the matter, most recently in the Court of Appeal. Watch Tower then decided to try to appeal to the Supreme Court. I am pleased to tell you that I have learned today that the Supreme Court has rejected their application. This means that there are no more domestic routes of appeal open to Watch Tower. We are therefore going to be doing what we have been doing since 2014, which is continuing with our inquiries.
This is excellent news, as it means that the Commission will now be able to carry out a full enquiry, not only into the disturbing allegations concerning the New Moston congregation, but also of the wider conduct of Watchtower in the general area of child protection.
Given the disturbing findings of the 2015 Australian Royal Commission into the same area of Watchtower conduct, such an investigation clearly has no time to lose.
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NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors →
135 Responses to News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
← Older Comments
Tara says:
July 30, 2016 at 3:20 pm
Laugh for the day. Went outside to put something in the car… My daughter runs out from behind her vehicle… all stealth and is shout/whispering at me ‘Mom! Mom!’ I turn to see her gesturing like crazy for me to go back. I look at her puzzled… still gesturing ‘Witnesses knocking on doors!, get back inside!’… a year back we would have been the ones knocking on the doors… lol how times have changed….
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 6:57 am
Was it your plan to be “HBH”? LOL.
Sometimes when I am home on a Saturday morning, my dog will start barking at something out on the street and I wonder “could it be”? So I’ll sneak a peek through the curtains. So far, though, I have never seen anyone going door to door in my neighborhood.
WS
Reply
Tara says:
July 31, 2016 at 7:15 am
I used to leave the house on a Saturday morning just in case they ‘came a calling’. I don’t think they ever will now as after all the apostate talks etc I am probably classed as a… what was it ‘ dangerous rock under the water’? or something like that. I have told those who ask why I don’t attend that my conscience will no longer allow me to sit at the hall and condone what is going on in the Org. Funny enough no one has ever asked me what I mean….. hmm.
I just found it so funny my daughter was in ‘Danger! JW alert’ mode.
Reply
Big B says:
July 31, 2016 at 8:52 am
@ Tara:
I think you have your answer.
To know the Truth about the Truth requires a certain amount of intelligence and more important responsibility. It takes some
fortitude to leave something that is a lie and then reveal the lie to others.
You have acted correctly. The ‘sheeple’, like in Jesus’ day, did not bother what the ‘parable’ meant but were satisfied with the story. That is why “no one has ever asked me what I mean”. To know the real TRUTH requires change and they do not have the fortitude to ask. They are comfortable believing the lie and don’t want their ‘little world of deceit and fairy tales disturbed. My mother-in-law, unfortunately, is one of those.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 9:31 am
@Big B
Similar to my earlier comment to Bad Penny: for all their “studying” they don’t actually learn anything, nor do they want to.
To quote John Lennon: “Living is easy with eyes closed; Misunderstanding all you see”
WS
Winston Smith says:
July 31, 2016 at 9:27 am
“Danger JW Alert Mode” LOL
That makes me think of the line from the Empire Strikes Back (which by the way was condemned as demonic by several devout Jdubs): “Imperial Troops have entered base! Imperial Troops have entered the [burst of static].”
Just replace “Imperial” with “Jdub”
WS
Reply
Tara says:
August 1, 2016 at 8:22 pm
I actually had ‘Danger Will Robinson’, in my head lol
free@last says:
July 31, 2016 at 10:29 am
Isn’t it amazing how they are so quick to say that they “miss seeing you at the hall”, or “so and so asked about you” but they never ask why you stopped going in the first place. I guess they just don’t want to know. The JW life plan – Dig hole in sand, insert head, wait for paradise.
Reply
Big B says:
August 1, 2016 at 8:01 am
@ free@last;
Unfortunately, the paradise never comes. If they ( the Governing Body) had Jehovah’s infallible Holy Spirit they would have been correct in 1975 and we would be in the NEW SYSTEM 41 years this coming October!
Can you imagine saying “this year will be October, 41 AA or NS (after Armageddon or New System). However, with cranium firmly planted in the sand (or behind) the ‘misguided, duped sheeple continue to be played in blissful ignorance. Truly a sad, pathetic lot indeed.
FullyAwake says:
August 1, 2016 at 10:01 am
I’ll take the reply by Big B a step further.
They would have never predicted or strongly implied that the end was coming if they had God’s holy spirit. They then fit the criteria in the Bible at Deuteronomy 18:22 of being false prophets and to not be afraid of them (…or what they say).
They predicted the end in 1914, 1925, strongly implied with fancy words in 1975, predicted it would come before the end of the 20th century.
However, I think they might of learned their lesson because there are no more predictions coming forth. They only now say “it is very close”, “we are living deep in the time of the end”, etc. However, the damage from the false predictions made in the 20th century has been done and those just simply can’t be erased.
FullyAwake says:
August 1, 2016 at 10:43 am
To clarify my reply further. The scripture at Matthew 24:36 states that “No man knows the day or the hour …neither the son” So what makes any human think they can pinpoint when the end will happen when you consider that Jesus doesn’t even know. It is foolish and presumptuous for any human to try and determine these things.
Winston Smith says:
August 1, 2016 at 7:49 pm
@FullyAwake
As a religion that attracts adherents through fear of the end of the world, they need to keep promoting the end as imminent. However, they have learned that they do serious damage to their credibility by setting dates that go unfulfilled. So now it seems like they are in a five years cycle. So many of my JW relatives have told me “it has to be within the next 5 years.” They have been saying that since the year 2000, so we are now in the start of the 4th 5-year cycle since that time. And it will potentially continue in 5-year cycles indefinitiely. 100 years from now, if some remnant of this cult remains, they will be saying, “well certainly the end will come before 2120!”
WS
FullyAwake says:
August 2, 2016 at 7:50 am
Many I know were promoting 2014 as the end being 100 years since 1914. I told them nothing is going to happen and nothing did. Others have pointed to Revelation recently as indicating that the end must be really close. Again, I believe no one can correctly interpret the book of Revelation. The R&F keep fueling the fire because of the fact that the end being imminent has been so indoctrinated into them that they just must keep on speculating. You are correct Winston. The fear of the end of the world is what keeps this religion and other cults ticking.
Ejecting to Sanity says:
August 3, 2016 at 9:12 pm
Our exact experience after our long exit…’don’t ask, and please don’t tell me…’
QuietObserver says:
July 31, 2016 at 6:39 am
Thank you Average Joe for the link to the UK investigation. I have passed it along. Hope it opens some eyes!
Reply
Average Joe says:
July 31, 2016 at 7:31 am
You’re welcome mate. Hopefully they will have some updated news soon that we can share.
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
August 1, 2016 at 7:46 am
I am so excited at how God is cleaning house of religions that do not comply to his standards. The Catholic church and the Jehovah’s Witnesses religions have been involved in child sexual abuse cases for well over 50 years.
The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse (Australia) has found a plethora of criminal behavior in the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Catholic church. In the next few months, hopefully, a new Inquiry will be made in the United Kingdom called the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse.
I look forward to the YouTube videos and the professional analysis of the various cases of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion and the Catholic Church.
The IICSA has a great YouTube channel at IICSA YouTube
Reply
Outandabout says:
August 1, 2016 at 1:40 pm
Thank you for the link, Doc Obvious, and, as opposed to some people who state that the subject of child sexual abuse and subsequent cover-ups have been “milked to death”, and their dearest wish being that that was the case, the subject is only just gaining traction. Perhaps they know that and are fearful for their immoral lifestyles which they willingly prioritize over the rape of children. True, the public have become slightly immune to hearing about such matters, but the authorities haven’t.
Anybody involved in the process of exposing these criminals deserves full support and anybody attempting to hinder that process or attempting to somehow normalize such behavior only exposes themselves for who and what they truly are.
Thank you JW Survey and JW Facts.
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
August 1, 2016 at 4:24 pm
You’re welcome, Outandabout.
These religious groups are given way too much freedom and have absolute power. None of Jesus Christ’s apostles were lawyers and more than likely would not have been. Jesus took care of people. Period. These religions who have internal legal departments should be a sign. They do not just use their legal departments for actual religious freedoms, they use them for any occasion. Really, people should be aware of these lawsuits, Inquiries, and Commissions that pertain to their religions instead of being blind to the fact. Usually these religion’s leaders hide behind their lawyers and let the lawyers to mop up the mess. Watchtower running away from their issues and blaming victims is outrageous. Indecorous behavior by a religious institution. It is truly sickening.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
August 1, 2016 at 5:42 pm
@Doc,
The problem is that any entity today that wants to own assets or to even function needs to have legal counsel. Even the non profit professional society I belong to has legal counsel. It’s simply not practical for a non profit to exist in this day and age without some form of legal cousel.
Of course, i think organized religion in general is or can be dangerous. I just don’t think the fact that whether or not they seek legal aid either through an external service or an internal department is a good indicator as to an organization’s motives. I will agree that the JW org’s use of an internal legal team and the legal systems is counterintuitive to its mandates against higher education and the worldly systems in general. Ever notice that when the legal system rules in their favor it is divine intervention, but when it rules against them it is Satanic persecution? So who really is in control here? Is I the devil’s system or God’s?
WS
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
August 2, 2016 at 6:33 am
Here is my question. How many lawyers you know work for under $500 USD a month? This is the amount of money Watchtower’s lawyers make. Lawyers have been around even before Jesus was born on the earth. When Jesus was before the government and his life was on the line, don’t you think he would have needed a lawyer? Jesus handled the matter himself. I believe Watchtower uses the judicial system as a toy. Common people today do not have the luxury of using the judicial system like Watchtower. I do agree with your questions at the end. Everybody loves the judicial system when it goes along with their philosophy. They demonize it when it does not. When the tables are turned, we see the real Watchtower. In addition, the publisher money that is being spent on this legal issue that is not related to their “preaching work” is also of issue. They should be going outside their legal department and finding lawyers to represent them. I do not like when common people have to pay for other company’s bad policies and to continue to pay to a never ending criminal case.
Doc Obvious says:
August 1, 2016 at 4:33 pm
I’m sorry, one more item. I think the communities that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do their activity is without constraint and shows a lack of disinterest in CSA. Until CSA happens to their child, then it becomes an issue. Years ago, neighbors were more close knit. They would talk to each other. Child Sexual Abuse was not tolerated in their neighborhood or community. Neighbors would block the Witnesses if they knew that some of them were pedophiles. They would tell them to go away or face mob activity. I do believe that the latest Watchtower Supreme Court case needs to go back and reverse their terrible decision with this new line of evidence.
Reply
JBob says:
August 1, 2016 at 9:05 pm
A list of failed predictions and “pivotal years” (“turning points”):http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
Why 1799? Because that’s the William Miller pivotal year–not 1914, not 1844.
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
August 2, 2016 at 6:50 pm
The latest John Cedars video of the Watchtower letter about Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) is absolutely horrific. The statement that stands out in my mind is the following: “4. The Scriptures place the responsibility on parents for teaching and protecting their children (Eph. 6:4). The scripture in Ephesians makes no reference to “protecting children”. This is made up by Watchtower. So, in other words, Watchtower does not want to be responsible and deflects all responsibility to parents regarding protecting children. Watchtower is under no obligation to protect children. If your child gets sexually abuse it is the parents fault for not doing enough. However, Watchtower will only assist in giving you parents information on how to leave Child Sexual Abuse in Jehovah’s hands. Just keep drinking the Kool-Aid and things will hopefully turn out better for you. Oh, and please parents if the abuser is an elder, do not tell the authorities that he is a person taking the lead and is under the jurisdiction of Watchtower. That would be bad. And, as Lloyd Evans reiterates in his commentary regarding the latest letter, the references do not tell parents or encourage parents to go to the police. I am getting off my soap box.
Reply
openmind says:
August 3, 2016 at 10:45 am
Hi Doc, now you’re off your soap box please allow me to jump on. That letter has also made me absolutely furious! The 2 scriptures cited at the beginning, Deuteronomy 23:17, 18 and Galations 5:19-21 are ridiculous to be used in relation to CSA.
While I’m here letting off steam – what do any of you think of the latest, as usual awful, August JW broadcast? I got fed up trying to keep count of how many times the words ‘loyal’ and ‘loyalty’ were used. If any of you have the patience to count please let us know on here. Thanks in advance!
Reply
Kurt Hennig says:
August 3, 2016 at 2:13 pm
They are simply losing their foothold in worldly support!
Kurt Hennig – (1 Corinthians 1:27, Isaiah 49:26, 50:4)
“What is a “FAITHFUL and WISE or DISCRETE Slave or Servant?” as found in (Matthew 24:45-47) and what does the question mean?”http://www.watchtowercriminals.blogspot.com
Reply
Twmack says:
August 3, 2016 at 2:41 pm
It was difficult to keep track of the number of times
loyal & loyalty were used, sometimes they were used
More than once in a single sentence.
I counted they were repeated 76 times, plus the word
disloyal used twice.
Shameless brain washing that’s apparent to all but those
still mesmerised.
Reply
Outandabout says:
August 3, 2016 at 2:45 pm
Even if WT bring their child abuse policy up to an acceptable level, it’s too much too little too late to let them and the abusers they so lovingly shield off the hook. Were the Nazi crimes forgotten and forgiven after the war? The Balkans, etc?
Never forget that this is a 21st century cult of martyrdom. People are expected to die and actually do. Can it be any worse? It’s a sickness through and through and all cleverly disguised as something lovely.
I wonder when the watchtower is going to shun itself, using their own guidelines to do that;
Apostasy
False worship
Fornication
Fraud
Gambling (stock market)
Greediness
Idolatry
Loose conduct
Lying
Non neutral activities
Porneia
Slander
Smoking or selling tobacco
Stealing
Violation of secular law
Wilful non support of family.
And probably Spiritism now that the latest child abuse letter to Elders suggests the use of a therapist as an option for the abused. There’s no limit to their deceit. Whatever it takes to survive. Evil doings.
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
August 4, 2016 at 1:15 pm
So, if you were having a heart attack in a store and no one but a Jehovah’s Witness was around to get help or call the authorities, your hope is that the Jehovah’s Witness would not start preaching to you but would rather seek help from the authorities or store management.
Your odds of surviving a heart attack are greater in this situation if the individual that is helping you is in a religion besides the Jehovah’s Witnesses or an atheist.
How sad.
Reply
JimmyG says:
August 4, 2016 at 2:12 pm
The UK investigation into child abuse, which has come to known as the ‘Goddard Inquiry’, will have to find another name, as she has resigned:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/82842002/judge-lowell-goddard-quits-as-head-of-uk-inquiry-into-child-sex-abuse
This will slow down even more the progress of the Royal Commission, which has been moving at a snail’s pace up to now
Reply
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← News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors
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Posted on August 4, 2016
New instructions on child abuse have been released by Watchtower, but do they fix the problem?
New instructions on child abuse have been released by Watchtower, but do they fix the problem?
In a newly released letter to all elders dated August 1st 2016, The Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses has once again revised its instructions to elders on dealing with allegations of child abuse.
Unfortunately, the changes are completely inert, failing to address the flaws which have resulted in unprecedented numbers of lawsuits against JW congregations and their worldwide headquarters in New York.
This leaked, internal document is a modification of the October 1st 2012 letter to elders, which served as a guideline for Jehovah’s Witness elders who have come to obtain knowledge of an accusation of the physical or sexual abuse of a minor.
For those unfamiliar with this ongoing saga, Jehovah’s Witnesses maintain a rigidly controlled central network of elders who are required to make first contact with the JW legal department instead of local police or child protection authorities when they become aware of child abuse allegations.
The letter, deceptively titled “Protecting Minors from Abuse” is a 6 page document which contains the terms “legal” or “legal department” no less than 17 different times, and functions as an organizational tool which should be more accurately titled “Protecting the Jehovah’s Witness Organization from Liability and Negative Publicity.”
Legal Considerations
Following a descriptive definition of the term “child abuse,” Watchtower’s instructions wastes no time reminding elders that they may be obligated to report an allegation of child abuse to local authorities.
obligated to report
This is significant because this statement offers no proactive protection for victims, only a reactive reminder that elders might be forced to comply with state laws. And who is responsible for informing elders of state laws in their jurisdiction? The Watchtower Legal Department.
“To ensure that elders comply with child-abuse reporting laws, two elders should immediately call the Legal Department for legal advice when the elders learn of an accusation of child abuse. (Rom. 13:1-4)” – Paragraph 6 August 1, 2016 Letter.
Using the example of the United States, it might seem logical that with 50 independent state governments, a centralized legal department would simplify the process for local elders, who are generally uninformed in legal matters. Unfortunately the cold reality is that once the call is placed to Watchtower’s legal department, the focus shifts from the protection of the victim to the protection of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and their internal investigation of the accused.
Absolute Right
As stated in paragraph 5 of the Watchtower letter, “In all cases, the victim and her parents have the absolute right to report an allegation to the authorities.” The term “absolute right” does not originate with Watchtower, but is a legal term defined this way:
“an unqualified right : a legally enforceable right to take some action or to refrain from acting at the sole discretion of the person having the right” (Merriam Webster)
The term appears in the final chapter of the JW elders’s handbook “Shepherd the Flock of God” under “Clarifications and Guidelines on Handling Certain Matters”
“Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. Elders will not criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities. If the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.” – Shepherd the Flock of God, pages 131- 32
Clearly, Watchtower has purposefully muddied the waters of justice by issuing a confusing statement in the very book which should be relied upon to clarify the handling of serious matters. Instead, they obfuscate procedures by suggesting inaction on the part of elders, and shifting the burden of reporting abuse to the victim. There is a substantial difference between never telling someone not to report, and actively telling someone they should report.
In a great majority of JW abuse cases, the victims are underage, emotionally devastated, embarrassed, and completely unable to comprehend or navigate the process for reporting their abuser and the crime itself. Watchtower has effectively told the victim “We won’t stop you from reporting this crime to the police if you really feel this is necessary; we are required to inform you that it is your legal ‘absolute right’ to do so, but we will not encourage this unless we as the body of elders are legally held responsible to contact the authorities.”
During the April 2013 Inquiry into the handling of child abuse by religious and other organisations, held in Victoria Australia (not the 2015 Australian Royal Commission,) Watchtower legal counsel Ms. Rachel Van Witsen regurgitated the “absolute right” phrase multiple times, including the following statement defending Watchtower’s position:
“On that, if I may add, as part of giving that advice, our instructions are that first and foremost is the protection of children in the organisation, whatever that takes. At the moment, because there is no mandatory reporting for ministers of religion in Victoria, then the victim, who has very often had their dignity removed, is then put in the driver’s seat. It is entirely their absolute right, and the elders are directed to tell the victim and their family that it is their absolute right, to report to the authorities, that they would be fully supported whichever decision they made and that the elders are also directed in that advice to fully cooperate with any police investigation.”
Ms. Van Witsen was reminded by the court that the Australian Evidence Act of 2008 makes special allowance for elders of any religion to report details of criminal conduct to civil authorities with no penalty. Watchtower has flat out refused to comply with this allowance. This detail was revealed in the exchange between the honorable Nicholas Wakeling and acting Watchtower Australian Branch Overseer Terry O’Brien:
Mr WAKELING — I am trying to be very clear here. If there was evidence of child abuse within the church that you are aware of, would you report that to the police?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — Not if the victim did not want it reported.
Mr WAKELING — No, I am not asking you about the victim. I am asking: would you as an organisation report that to the police if you became aware of child abuse within your organisation?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — We do not have the authority to do that.
Mr WAKELING — And why do you not have the authority?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — Because of the mandatory reporting act.
Mr WAKELING — And why do you say that?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — Because the minister does not have the priority over the victim. It is the victim’s absolute right and privilege to decide whether they want the matter — —
Mr WAKELING — Mr O’Brien, if I may take you to the Evidence Act which we are talking about, section 127 of the Evidence Act states:
“(1) A person who is or was a member of the clergy of any church or religious denomination is entitled to refuse to divulge that a religious confession was made, or the contents of a religious confession made, to the person when a member of the clergy.” The law does not prevent the church from providing information. The law provides an exemption for the church, but the law does not prevent a church in this state from providing information. It is clearly within the province of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, if child sexual abuse is such a significant issue, for you as an organisation to waiver that and to report that.
Ms VAN WITSEN — Absolutely.
[bold and italics ours]
It is clear that Watchtower Attorney Rachel Van Witsen was caught between a rock and a hard place, formally agreeing with the court, while at the same time defending a position which obstructs justice and puts victims at an extreme disadvantage.
She declared that “our instructions are that first and foremost is the protection of children in the organisation, whatever that takes” while simultaneously refusing to do “whatever that takes.” The international courts of law have come to an agreement that it takes swift and immediate contact with law enforcement and child protective authorities to protect our community and children from abusers, and this action in no way violates the scriptural and religious beliefs of those who belong to Christian organizations.
Congregation Considerations
Following the section on legal concerns, the newly released Watchtower letter focuses a great amount of attention on the internal investigations of any accusations of physical or sexual abuse of a minor. It is significant that an organization which directs so much effort into their internal religious justice system has been the subject themselves of worldwide investigations by the very secular authorities which Witnesses claim to obey.
The Watchtower organization suggests that their own due process protects minors, positing that the reproving or disfellowshipping of an offender warns the congregation about a predator in their midst. However this premise is deceptively weak. In a great number of sexual abuse cases, the victims have come forward only after extreme damage has been inflicted by the perpetrator on not one, but in most cases multiple victims, often numbering double digits. The Australian Royal Commission on Child Abuse found that of the 1,006 known cases of child abuse uncovered among Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia, the number of actual reported victims exceeded 1,730.
Predators associated with the Jehovah’s Witness religion know very well that the lack of cooperation with civil authorities coupled with the infamous JW “Two Witness” rule allows an environment of tolerance to exist inside this religion which has paved the way for many sexual encounters between these predators and innocent Witness children.
What many may not realize is that disfellowshipping for child abuse is a somewhat rare occurrence. [In many cases, elders have disfellowshipped on the grounds of “lying” rather than the actual crime of child abuse.] Obviously most abusers will flat out deny an accusation of abuse, and justice is further prevented because wrongdoing is usually not “established” without two credible witnesses. Aside from the ultra-rare confession of a molester, the only way an abuser can be convicted by a judicial committee would be when at least 2 independent victims come forward accusing the perpetrator of the same crime. Again, this is extraordinarily rare. The fact that Witness victims are effectively discouraged from contacting the authorities makes the chance of additional victims coming forward even more unlikely.
judicial committee
The list of policies and procedures for elders involved in processing an accused child molester is seemingly endless, as evidenced by the release of the new August 1st letter. What is absolutely horrific is that an accused and convicted child molester may not only attend meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but engage in the public door-to-door ministry and become baptized (or reinstated) as an approved congregant.
restrictions
This letter mandates that “restrictions” will be placed on the abuser, stating that:
“The elders will be directed to caution the individual never to be alone with a minor, not to cultivate friendships with minors, not to display affection for minors, and so forth.”
Is this really a restriction? No, it is not. It is a suggestion to “caution” this predator to avoid circumstances that might lead to abuse. Any concerned parent would find absolutely no comfort whatsoever in the knowledge that a Jehovah’s Witness elder “cautioned” a sick individual to avoid contact with their child. Abusers have severe personality disorders and are manipulative and controlling. When a deviant urge rises to the surface, there is no “caution” in the world which will prevent an abuser from manipulating circumstances to his sick, sexual advantage.
It is noteworthy that Jehovah’s Witnesses offer absolutely no professional counseling either to the victims of sexual abuse, or to predators seeking religious asylum within this organization. This is because, as an organization, they support or sanction no approved treatments for either group. In the case of offenders, even the suggestion of obtaining professional help is conspicuously absent from JW policy. They seem to have no problem reinstating, baptizing, or even offering “privileges” to offenders in some cases, but refuse to encourage consultation with a mental health professional.
No Help for Victims
For as long as I was associated with the Jehovah’s Witness organization, there was a notable reluctance to recommend professional counseling for any individual suffering from mental illness, depression, alcoholism, or the effects of child abuse. They believe the first authority in all such matters is the Bible, but only as interpreted by the Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body.
This is yet another obstruction of justice, particularly for victims of child abuse who, more often than not, have already been denied civil justice or the benefit of child protection advocates.
Just as with their reluctance to contact the police when learning of alleged abuse, they are equally remiss in establishing a welfare plan where victims can make contact with appropriate professionals who are trained to deal with physical or sexual abuse. The only mention of professional counseling occurs in section 11 of the Watchtower letter, which says:
“In addition to the spiritual shepherding provided by the elders, the victim or her family may desire other assistance. For example, the victim or her family may decide to consult a mental-health professional. This would be a personal decision for them to make.”
Once again, “spiritual shepherding” comes first, and is performed by window washers, carpenters, contractors, and other men who have absolutely no qualifications to handle counseling of any kind. Making matters worse, they are by design always men, further exacerbating an already sensitive situation for female abuse victims.
The suggestion that victims “may” decide to consult a mental health professional, and that this would be a “personal decision” demonstrates the well known opposition among Jehovah’s Witnesses to opening their minds and deepest thoughts to “worldly” individuals and persons they would refer to as “so-called experts” who do not have the “best interests” of Jehovah’s Witnesses at heart.
Evidence of this position can be found in countless Watchtower and Awake! articles, such as the September 8th 1986 issue of the Awake! which covered the subject of mental illness:
“Medical science today is likewise limited. True, one can take reasonable steps to attain a measure of relief. But rather than getting trapped on a treadmill of searching for an elusive cure, some may simply have to learn to live with and endure the problem.”
The August 8th 1982 Awake! magazine article titled “Making Wise Health Decisions” stated:
“A wise objective is to try to go through as much of life as possible free from pills or therapy. The number of persons who can say they live a pill-free life is becoming increasingly smaller”
Non-Jehovah’s Witness Parents Excluded
The Jehovah’s Witness organization governs its members on the principle that families should all accept the “truth” and describes anyone who has not accepted this religion as an “unbeliever.” It stands to reason that if a husband and wife do not share the Witness theology, this detail would be irrelevant when it is discovered that one of their children has been abused. However, Jehovah’s Witness leadership makes no mention of the involvement of a non-Witness parent during an abuse investigation, either in the updated 2016 letter to Elders, or in the elders handbook “Shepherd the Flock.”
“In the case of any discussion with a child abuse victim who is still a minor, an elder should never meet alone with the minor but
should always involve another elder and another adult member of the congregation, preferably the minor’s parent(s).” August 1st 2016 Letter to Elders, Par. 11
This is a very subtle point, but the use of the term “preferably” opens the door for the involvement of a non-parent in cases where one of the parents is either deceased, the accused, or a non-Witness. This is a reminder that the investigations performed by JW elders have no relevance in the real world, and are only used to execute their religious tribunal.
A non-Witness parent is likely already aware that his presence at a JW judicial meeting is completely undesired. He is deemed worthy of death according to the Watchtower. When discussing the consequences of marrying an unbeliever, the May 1st 2002 Watchtower says:
“God’s view of marrying an unbeliever is expressed at Malachi 2:12: “Jehovah will cut off each one that does it.” Christians are urged to marry “only in the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 7:39) Under the Christian system of things, a believer is not “cut off” for marrying an unbeliever. Still, if the unbeliever stays in his or her unbelief, what will happen to that one when God shortly brings this system to an end?—Psalm 37:37, 38.”
In case you are unfamiliar with the Biblical term “cut off,” it means execution by God. Watchtower emphasizes that in pre-Christian days, marrying an unbeliever would result in death. They harness fear in the 21st Century by stating that the same behavior will result in death by Jehovah at Armageddon.
Summary of Changes
It has been nearly four years since the release of the October 1st 2012 letter to elders, and while Watchtower policy on handling child abuse allegations has remained stagnant, for legal and administrative reasons the JW organization has seen fit to publish the following changes as noted in the August 1st 2016 letter
◾The term “two witnesses” has been eliminated, but the policy itself has not changed
◾The statement that the “branch office” determines who shall be deemed a “predator” has been eliminated
◾The direction of what to do when an adult has been viewing child pornography has been eliminated
◾The statement that the Watchtower “branch office” determines whether an abuser shall be known as a “child molester” has been eliminated
◾Internal investigations with a victim do not need to proceed in the presence of the accused molester
◾Elders are instructed to DELETE paragraphs 20 and 21 of chapter 12 of their Shepherd the Flock elders manual
With reference to the last item, Watchtower has eliminated some grossly damaging direction, particularly regarding how it handles the testimony of the accuser (the victim) It part, the 2012 letter stated:
“The following questions should be answered with regard to the accuser: (1) What is the level of maturity of the child or youth? (2) Is he (or she) describing conduct that one his age would not normally know about? (3) Is the child or his parents known to be serious, mature? (4) Is his memory consistent, or is it
intermittent, or does it involve repressed memories? (w95 11/1 pp. 25-26) (5) What is the reputation of the parents? (6) Are they spiritually and emotionally mature? After carefully considering the matter, the branch office will then give you direction as to what information about the allegation should be shared, if
any, with the elders of the new congregation.”
Not only did Watchtower refuse to defer accusations of child abuse to the proper authorities, it scrutinized the victims, suggesting that some might be immature, have faulty memories, unstable parents, or may even be guilty of fabricating their claims. These disgusting and inappropriate questions have disappeared from the written edicts governing Jehovah’s Witness elders, but you can be sure that they will be asked in private when the legal and service departments are contacted by elders.
Internal Investigations
While the changes to the 2016 child abuse handling letter are primarily omissions, one addition is the newly minted policy which states the following:
“Elders should remember that during the investigation
process and during the judicial committee process, a victim of child sexual abuse is not required to make her allegation in the presence of the alleged abuser.”
Jehovah’s Witness children have been traumatized by the very thought of revealing that someone touched or abused them, let alone reliving this horror in front of a group of Witness elders. Even worse, they were until now required to face their abuser in a religious tribunal.
While some might argue that eliminating the “face your abuser” madness is a step in the right direction, we must not forget that the victim must STILL spell out the details of their sexual abuse to Jehovah’s Witness investigating elders. Unless the victim is a minor, the new Watchtower directive STILL requires full disclosure to the very same men who preach that Armageddon is around the corner, and who would deny a life-saving blood transfusion to an innocent child.
The nature of these judicial proceedings is embarrassing, humiliating, and enormously stressful for the person required to recount the sordid details of the physical or sexual abuse. Remember, the men in the room are tradesmen, salesmen, pin-stripers and plumbers – anything but qualified therapists.
We must not forget that elders are required to contact the JW legal and service departments first in any cases of abuse, which means that their policies have remained essentially the same; Witness elders almost always get the first crack at interviewing the victims of child sexual abuse.
This is a significant obstruction of the child protective and civil processes which govern most countries. From the moment abuse is mentioned or reported, only trained professionals should be consulted. There are severe consequences which result from the unethical and unprofessional mishandling of abuse allegations.
In a 2013 paper on the subject of forensic interviews, the US National Institutes of Health published a paper describing the implications of multiple interviews and the fragility of victim testimony:
“Sexually abused children may have trouble disclosing1 their abuse despite the fact that the child’s history may be the most important part of the diagnostic evaluation and may lead to conviction of the perpetrator(s) (Berkoff, Zolotor, Thackeray, Shapiro, & Runyan, 2008). The Child Sexual Abuse Accommodation Syndrome (CSAAS) model suggests that children react to their sexual abuse in the form of secrecy, helplessness, entrapment and accommodation, delayed and unconvincing disclosure, and retraction (Summit, 1983). Sense of responsibility for abuse, shame and social stigma, and fear of the consequences for the perpetrator, self, siblings, or non-involved parent all may hinder a child’s ability to disclose (Goodman-Brown, Edelstein, Goodman, Jones, & Gordon, 2003; Summit, 1983). Older children may further fear a parent’s incarceration, siblings’ removal from the home, or the loss of financial security (Block, Oran, Oran, Baumrind, & Goodman, 2010). Thus, children might not disclose abuse that has occurred for any of several reasons.”
The conclusion any reasonable person would reach is that the victim of child abuse is often in an extremely fragile state, and the interviews conducted with such persons need to be performed only by educated and qualified child protection agents and the special victims departments of law enforcement. Elders who intervene and interfere under the premise of spiritual guidance or internal investigations may cause irreversible damage to the victim, and obstruct justice.
How Have Other Religions Responded?
In noticeable contrast with the gross mishandling of child abuse cases by Jehovah’s Witness elders, other religions who have experienced similar tragedies have learned their lesson, apologized, and have put in place effective policies which favor the protection of children and have instituted a zero tolerance policy for child abusers.
For example, the Catholic Church’s Archdiocese of Baltimore Maryland has published a FAQ page on its web site titled “How the Church Responds to Sexual Abuse Allegations.”
Their published policies include the following statements:
“The Archdiocese of Baltimore is committed to healthy ministry, and seeks to utilize only competent, qualified, and responsible personnel. All clergy and Archdiocesan employees as well as all volunteers who work with children undergo criminal background checks. They also receive training on how to create a safe environment and how to recognize and report abuse. Children – including those in Catholic schools and religious education programs – are educated about healthy relationships and boundaries in the context of Catholic moral teaching.”
By contrast, the Jehovah’s Witness organization continues to appoint elders and ministerial servants (deacons) to positions of responsibility with absolutely NO BACKGROUND CHECKS whatsoever. Any male Jehovah’s Witness can work his way into a position of authority in the congregation, receiving no professional training, and has no authority to vet fellow appointed elders and servants.
The site further states:
“The Archdiocese complies with Maryland laws requiring that suspected child abuse be reported to civil authorities. Under Maryland law any person who has reason to believe a child has been subjected to abuse must report the suspected abuse to civil authorities, even if the potential victim is now over 18-year-old and even in cases where the alleged perpetrator is deceased. If Church personnel are suspected of abuse, then the suspected abuse must also be reported to the Archdiocese’s Office of Child & Youth Protection.”
Jehovah’s Witness elders continue to evade the responsibility to report abuse to civil authorities proactively, only doing so under duress.
How does the Catholic Church currently help victims?
“The Archdiocese of Baltimore has long been committed to the treatment and healing of those who have been harmed through abuse. We apologize and offer counseling assistance and pastoral services. The Archdiocese also recognizes the importance of offering support to family members. We do this for as long as it is helpful, and regardless of the age of the incident. We provide this support regardless of lawsuits and statutes of limitations. We have paid $2.8 million in victim counseling, and more than $7.6 million in direct payments to victims/survivors. The Archdiocese continues to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars annually to assist victims and protect children.”
While the Watchtower organization continues to malign all other religions as corrupt and “false” – one can’t ignore the candor of the Archdiocese, which has simply stated that “We apologize” and follow up by offering counseling and financial settlements to victims. What this means is that the Catholic organization has acknowledged that they were wrong, and they have taken responsibility for failing to protect children.
What is their current policy for handling accusations of abuse?
“Today, as it has done for many years, the Archdiocese offers assistance and healing to a victim who reports an allegation of abuse. The Church immediately reports the matter to civil authorities. When given permission by the local authorities, the Archdiocese conducts an investigation, presuming the accused is alive, and remains in ongoing communication with law enforcement. If the allegation is deemed credible, the accused is permanently barred from ministry and from serving in any capacity on behalf of the Archdiocese or any Catholic institution.” [bold is ours]
While JW Survey does not endorse or recommend any religion or set of beliefs, we applaud those organizations that have at the very least, apologized for their mis-handling of child abuse accusations, and have taken drastic steps to reverse the processes which caused the problem in the first place.
Filing immediate reports with the civil authorities and permanently banning any individual who has perpetrated a crime of sexual misconduct proves that change is possible no matter how large the organization or how widespread the problem was.
As I write this article, Jehovah’s Witnesses are facing a tidal wave of litigation and negative press due to their destructive organizational policies. In the end, they will find that they did not serve themselves very well. Their legal departments worldwide are being taxed, and they are forced to retain outside counsel from third party law firms to defend themselves in the United States, Canada, Australia, the UK and numerous additional countries.
Watchtower continues to amass a vast database of child abuse reports within their organization, but has refused to produce these documents under court order, and has exhausted every possible legal strategy to insulate their organization from accountability.
At this moment, the Superior Court of California has levied a $4,000 per day fine against the Watchtower organization for failure to comply with the court’s discovery order. This fine has been deemed by the court as a “lesser sanction” designed to motivate Watchtower’s compliance, and is a very small fraction of the terminating sanctions which will be levied in a matter of weeks against this organization.
All of this is the sad consequence of unyielding and disastrous policies which have crippled the lives of countless abuse victims, and is being financed by the unsuspecting members of the Jehovah’s Witness organization, who have little knowledge of the legal perils of their religion.
The JW.ORG web site news section features frequent articles on the legal battles being fought in defense of their religious freedoms, but never once have they posted a story explaining their highly publicized battles on the subject of child abuse.
Even the elders who carry out these policies and orders have almost no understanding of the underlying meaning of all of this. They follow directions, completely trusting the Governing Body and its legal department.
I take no delight in reporting on these issues, as they expose a systemic crack in our society which has permitted Jehovah’s Witnesses to exploit legal loopholes to elevate their internal justice system above the very secular authorities which they claim to respect. Witnesses state that they obey civil leaders except when their laws conflict with God’s laws, yet obedience to child protection laws violate no Christian principles.
Watchtower has fought so hard to protect their secretive database of child abuse accusations that it raises suspicions of not only how many cases appear on that list, but whose names might surface once this list is exposed. The fallout might just be more than this organization can bear.
Pride is before a crash, And a haughty spirit before stumbling
– Proverbs 16:18
John Redwood
For a thoughtful and eloquently detailed analysis of this new Watchtower letter to elders, please visit the Cedar’s channel:
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← News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
98 Responses to NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors
Keith says:
August 4, 2016 at 4:06 pm
Thank you for an excellent, well researched and though provoking article John
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Erik says:
August 4, 2016 at 7:36 pm
Hear! Hear!
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Summer says:
August 4, 2016 at 4:25 pm
This is so sad
These children are being held prisoners to pedophilia….too young too timid to be able to fend off assults
And the adults responsible go free to assult even more
I am a survivor of childhood rape and a victim of the REASSULT at the hands of elders
All i can do now is pray for the elders and pedophiles victims
And believe you me…..i now always pack a chambered sidearm whenever i venture out in public….all because of the fear i now live in because of the perps and elders who revictimized me all those yrs ago
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Imgonaburn says:
August 4, 2016 at 4:38 pm
Goddard has resigned from the enquiry. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/04/dame-lowell-goddard-resigns-as-head-of-child-sexual-abuse-inquiry?client=safari
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Doc Obvious says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:02 am
Since Australia was and is a British colony, I think The Honourable Peter McClellan could do an outstanding job filling this job vacancy. He has the experience and the know how on dealing with institutions who need a push in the right direction. I just hope Watchtower did not burn any bridges in Australia. That would be bad.
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Tara says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:30 am
I thought the same thing. McClellan would be awesome. Can you imagine the look on Jackson’s face lol.
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Imacountrygirl says:
August 4, 2016 at 5:19 pm
John, I cannot even imagine the time and research it must have taken you to write this in-depth article. It is so clearly an act of love on your part and I humbly thank you for your personal sacrifice.
It does not go unnoticed or unappreciated by those of us who were victims of sexual child abuse.
Watchtower is really really good with their smoke and mirrors.
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Sesom says:
August 4, 2016 at 5:23 pm
And you’re right. How can a carpenter,plumber,i.t. text,pioneer, help a child….. by quoting Scriptures. They sound like a bunch of _ _ _ _ _! I agree ,the only thing they are trying to protect is themselves from a lawsuit. They show that they have more love for the predators than for the child or any victim. Just like the free-range Masons they protect their predators and not the victims also. The victims can’t win for losing. If you can’t get any justice/help from the Mason hall you shonuff want get it from the kingdom Hall.
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Fooledmeonce says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:46 am
Is there a sexual scandal with the Masons? I haven’t heard of this before but I’m curious about it now.
I do beleive that a even a few decades ago, most organizations didn’t know, and didn’t want to know, that this stuff was going on. They really didn’t understand how to deal with it. (This doesn’t excuse them and it in fact shows just how stupid they really were).
The Masons require a man to be at least 21 years old and they do not allow women into their lodges. I’m not saying that a Mason couldn’t be a predator, but he wouldn’t be a predator in the lodge. I also don’t know if the Masons have some kind of internal court system like the JWs do. So any Mason that was preying on children should have been caught and dealt with by the police and courts, I’m assuming.
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Winston Smith says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:58 pm
I have a theory and this is pure speculation, but I think that there may have been some tie between Charles T Russell and the Masons. There was so much Mason symbology in the early Watchtower publications. I tend to think that Rutherford decided at some point to sever all ties with them, which was when he declared all their symbols “pagan.”
This is only a conspiracy theory at best. It would be interesting to try to find some evidence making a clear connection. See more at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/davinci-freemason.php.
WS
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Malachi says:
August 4, 2016 at 5:39 pm
Excellent write up John. The direction given to elders in the past was laughable when it came to reporting where it was required. We were told to skulk down to a phone booth at night in a different justification from where the incident occurred and make an anonymous phone call to the local (note ‘wrong jurisdiction’) police department providing as little information as possible to comply. So technically the incident was reported, in reality it was about as useless a report as one might actually make. It seems that the changes that were made are to further shield the WTS from liability under the guise of protecting the victim.
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Malachi says:
August 4, 2016 at 5:40 pm
Jurisdiction, not justification (damn spellchecker)
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KTMmadBrit says:
August 4, 2016 at 5:48 pm
In every congregation there are well-meaning but bumbling, inept, inexperienced, clueless, naïve, and incompetent elders. It is sickening to think they can ‘forgive’ some pedo and blithely let him stay in the congregation. The new directives to always call the legal department before breathing shows how much the Society trust their own appointed elders!!! Oh I forgot, they are appointed by God’s Holy Spirit
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Quendi says:
August 6, 2016 at 11:50 am
We must remember that the justification Watchtower gives for having woefully untrained, unprepared, and uneducated men handling all “judicial” matters is that they have been appointed to their positions by the holy spirit. Since the spirit is supposedly guiding their deliberations, the congregation can have the utmost confidence in their findings and will enjoy the protection the holy spirit will provide.
An impartial investigation into how men are selected for congregation offices would reveal that holy spirit isn’t involved at all. Rank and file Witnesses don’t undertake such investigations, so they go along with whatever decisions are made for them, whether that is done locally or globally in the case of the Governing Body. Witnesses are also told they must never question or challenge these ex cathedra decisions lest they fall under suspicion of promoting apostasy and thus be subject to disfellowshipping and shunning. Small wonder that this corrupt and abusive system of handling child abuse and other wrongs has persisted for decades!
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Big B says:
August 7, 2016 at 8:24 am
@ KTMmadBrit:
That is another good reason for my leaving! You can’t be sure who you are sitting next to at the Hall. I personally know of one person who is back in the congregation after being disfellowshipped three, that’s correct… three (3), different times. When does enough become enough already? How can the congregation be kept clean with repeating offenders reinstated?
Disfellowshipped murders in prison awaiting the death penalty can be and are reinstated. Is there any crime or perversion committed that cannot be forgiven multiple times and be allowed to return in good graces to this stupid cult?
Even Jesus said, as a parting shot to the adulteress who was saved from being stoned, “he that is without sin cast the first stone”; “Go and sin no more”. John 8:7-11 In other words ‘I’ve covered your behind this time but don’t mess up again.’
Even if you don’t believe this verse certainly Hebrews 10:26,27 leaves no doubt about the continued practice of sin; “If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries.…http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-26.htm
But they keep letting the repeat offenders and sexual predators return. No wonder the WTBTS has so many problems. The elders can’t keep the flock protected by the continued following of policy’s of letting wolves in.
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nullandvoidboy says:
August 4, 2016 at 6:05 pm
If you have a robot mind, then all of the legalize and shifty loop hole play, in that letter…..along with the childish amount of naivete that’s being espoused ( pedophiles self policing themselves )….You know for a fact it will certainly go over their ( elders ) heads….and don’t forget, the back up parachute of holy spirit!!!….so if they or the org miss something then surely holy cannoli spirit will pick up the slack….so don’t worry rank and file, they’ve thought about everything! Your children are safe!….not.
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Painfulreality says:
August 4, 2016 at 6:18 pm
I have a question I would really like answered. When an accusation of child sexual abuse is made, two elders are instructed to ring the legal desk. What I would like to know is exactly what the legal desk then says to those elders. I imagine they are given quite a bit of advice, but what IS that advice?
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Tara says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:32 am
Probably, ‘don’t do anything, say anything, write down anything, until we have looked into all the loop holes we can find to get out of it.’
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Trish says:
August 7, 2016 at 8:10 am
An ex elder answered that on the BBC documentary I believe. He’s now out and an activist, I forget his name, but he’s the one who discusses the database of offenders bethel maintains. Anyway, he describes the instructions he got from bethel as simply “if the accused is denying it, be a faithful brother and leave it in Jehovahs hands.”
In other words…..drop it.
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Jeffreycanning says:
August 4, 2016 at 7:30 pm
Good stuff John
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Rachel Feiler says:
August 4, 2016 at 9:45 pm
Thankyou for taking the time and effort to collate the reference material into one place, and for logically examining the watchtower’s latest obfustication of proper treatment of victims of child abuse within their ranks. It is as always revolting that their response still so under-whelming, and pathetic how they have to be forced into every slight change.
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free@last says:
August 4, 2016 at 11:22 pm
Did anyone else happen to read paragraph 10 titled Congregation Considerations? “a minor who is a willing participant and who is approaching adulthood” ummm, I don’t know where you live, but where I live it is illegal for an adult to have sexual contact with a minor even if the minor was a “willing participant” no matter how “close” to adulthood they are. Just another example of the org showing disregard for the law. I am not too familiar with this subject, so correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t it sometimes the case that a person who has been abused can appear to be a willing participant because they don’t understand how a normal, non-abusive relationship should be? Or because they falsely believe that is the only way to show love or affection? I guess according to the org it’s not important to focus on why an adult was engaging in this type of behavior with a minor instead let’s determine if the minor liked it or not. I am so disgusted!
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ROBIN MILLER says:
August 5, 2016 at 3:49 pm
Statutory rape? if sentenced, a somewhat lengthy prison sentence? its a felon, correct ?
and you stay on a list of being a predator for life? or am I way off course here –
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Sarah says:
August 4, 2016 at 11:55 pm
Thanks John. WT has no idea of the force which makes someone a child-abuser. They haven’t a clue and still do not educate themselves in this regard. No abuser can ever be given a responsible job in the congregation nor be allowed in the door to door work. If the abuser were truly repentant he would not argue with this. Families should be warned and a repentant abuser would accept this.
So sorry to all the victims, especially those who suffer more from elders. We’ll have to keep on making this public. Wish I could do more.
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Eeee says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:49 am
Yes, you can. Here in Nigeria, there is a popular website called nairaland.com, that a lot of Nigerians have access to. I don’t know of your location, but I’m making things like this know.
Though none of the topics have hit the front page for all to read, but at least more people are getting access to the information posted there and hopefully, one day, it will. Maybe you can try something like that. The WBTS or GB will have to be accountable for all of their actions
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Honza says:
August 5, 2016 at 2:07 am
Very good job!!!!
Honza
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ruthlee says:
August 5, 2016 at 2:40 am
All of this could be avoided if they practice what they preach and “come clean”. Why can these arrogant men not just draw a line under historic ineptitude pay out the damn cash and move on . After all it’s only money, all the rape victims won’t get their virginity or sanity back. So the greedy org could just give them cash and it will all go away like a magic pill. I am being sarcastic but honestly why are they hanging onto a shot reputation when they could buy their way out with OUR dedicated funds. Has this crackpot religion been reduced to slick lawyers and cheat thieves. Any one of us who are victims of rape were cheated of a prize we were not ready to give away, and were constantly reminded of gods standards that we fell short of and are now insulted by these very smart lawyers who would much rather save their org a heap of cash than buy off a few whining rape victims. I realise lawyering is not about justice but getting the best for your side. Is there one just one lawyer in Brooklyn who would do the right thing. It only takes one to publish that list and get the snowball rolling. I think they will be calling for the rocks to fall over them when they are named and shamed. Let me spell it out to those who read our naughty site what happened because most bethel ites had no kids so they won’t get it. We are fighting for children who are Christian and under the protection of Christ at the time of their defilement ant jehovahs witness policy celebrates the defiler not the Christ. A shameful , shameful indictment now either they admit this heinous miscarriage of justice and walk away.with some semblance of conscience or go to gehenna with a long list of child defilers around their necks. Final reminder it’s only money the org is protecting, not the private parts of children.Ruthlee
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Winston Smith says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:09 am
You raise a good point Ruthlee. What (or should I say where) are the ethics of the lawyers representing the Watchtower? Yes, I realize that the stereotype is that all lawyers are unethical swine (one joke goes, “what’s the difference between a dead dog lying in the road and a dead lawyer lying in the road? There are skid marks in front of the dog”). But the reality is that ethics are part of legal training and lawyers found to be unethical are disbarred.
I have heard that some of the lawyers at Watchtower have had their law degrees paid for by the org (or in reality by the window washers and toilet cleaners who financially support the org). But many I am sure got their law degrees and licensing prior to joining. Don’t they have a crisis of ethics with what they see? Is the JW brainwashing so effective that even trained lawyers will act unethically based on the whims of the GB? Or is there a requirement for members of the legal dept to have already been broken morally/ethically to blindly serve the GB? Makes you wonder if there is not just one member of Watchtower legal dept with some remaining scruples who might blow the whistle?
WS
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Anonymous says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:53 am
If they admitted to this, then they would be admitting, in public, that they are not only far from infallible, but are responsible for deliberately hurting people. So …why follow them? How will anyone believe, after such an admission, that the JW religion is spirit-directed and chosen by God after they have admitted to deliberately covering up crimes?
This is why they are holding fast to antiquated and harmful policies. If they get accused by others, they can always deny and claim “persecution” by the “world”. But, they absolutely cannot EVER admit they were wrong.
Otherwise, they lose credibility. This is also why they go back and change their literature and lie about not making false prophecies. So, we will probably never get an apology, since they will never admit to being wrong.
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Telescopium says:
August 6, 2016 at 7:29 am
Ruthlee, Winston, Anonymous,
Appreciate your comments. Seriously.
I think the Organization is trying to tread a knife’s edge here. They know changes are going to be forced on them, so they’re making some (very minor) adjustments in a desperate effort to make the problem go away. In doing that, they’re trying to accomplish three things:
-Appease the ‘superior authorities’ and keep their tax-free status.
-Avoid bad publicity so that non-Witnesses will still open their doors.
-Avoid a huge scandal so that current Witnesses will not be shaken and leave.
The problem, as mentioned by many others here, is that taking baby steps in this matter does not help the majority of children. Instead, it shows an unwilling cooperation on the part of the Organization, and that looks really bad!
The ARC pointed out the lack of substance in the policies regarding abuse, which in turn highlighted the delusion Witnesses believe that they’re doing their best to protect the kids. I’m afraid it would take a massive (repeat: MASSIVE) amount of bad publicity to convince Joe Witness that he is deluded and something really wrong is happening. The Organization doesn’t want that, so they deal with the minor amount of bad publicity that comes from taking baby steps and make sure to let the authorities know they are ‘actively’ addressing the problem.
So far, they’ve managed to keep a somewhat low profile, which I think is an unfortunate consequence of their small membership and the well-publicized Catholic scandal, which numbed many people to the seriousness of sexual abuse.
I feel like I’ve said a lot, but in proofreading my comment I find there’s nothing new here. The Organization will continue to do the least amount possible to get what it wants. I only hope that one day they lose their hold.
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FullyAwake says:
August 5, 2016 at 3:26 am
The organization cannot and will not admit that they are wrong. To do this is to put in question everything they teach, to put into question that they are the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”. They really do teach that they are infallible through the back door by using the “light is getting brighter” doctrine. I thought that humility was one of the most important qualities for Christians to have? They show a total lack of humility which is the opposite of the teachings of God and Christ. To apologize is to admit one is wrong but far better to humbly apologize and correct the mistake than continue down the WRONG path. Eventually this lack of humility or what is called PRIDE will lead to their crash and fall. It’s just a matter of time.
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Doc Obvious says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:09 am
I agree. Jehovah is putting the spotlight on Watchtower’s bad 1970’s policy and showing the world’s justice system just how bad they are out of alignment. It’s time to clean house.
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Winston Smith says:
August 6, 2016 at 6:10 am
Personally, I don’t think the house can be cleaned. It is infested and needs to be burnt to the ground.
WS
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Victor says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:35 am
If they admitted they were wrong, the next question that may arise in the minds of many it would be: “How can I be sure you will not even wrong in OTHER matters?”. Then full speed ahead, head down to ruin!
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JBob says:
August 5, 2016 at 1:33 pm
The first step in being humble, and this is a trait I saw in those reviled “Reverends” and “priests,” is that one who is called to minister is humble in realizing they are a broken vessel, yet called for a greater purpose through grace and renewal. Thus, whatever is uttered comes from the Word, and if persons choose to listen to the Word, then bravo, another win for G*d, not a win for “me”. Thus, pastoral view is “we are in this together,” but when denominations are organized and depend on fiscal flows, then the black/white thinking creeps in because I need more listeners to survive. You’re either with me, or against me–and, careful to note how some groups apply that “he that is not with us is against us” (Mark 9:38-41; Luke 9:50; Matt 12:30a?) verse. Circle the wagons to protect the “greater cause” rather than focus on needs of individuals.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001403
w01 6/1 pp. 12-17 “If God Is for Us, Who Will Be Against Us?”
9:49, 50—Why did Jesus not prevent a man from expelling demons, even though the man was not following him? Jesus did not prevent the man because the Christian congregation had not yet been formed. Hence, it was not required that the man physically accompany Jesus in order to exercise faith in Jesus’ name and expel demons.—Mark 9:38-40.
w08 3/15 p. 30-p. 32 par. 11, “Highlights From the Book of Luke”
The issue with these referenced views is that reality–yes, that awful and disgusting thing the Watchtower followers abhor–indicates that until the Councils of Trent, Nicea and Chalcedon, a standard Christian viewpoint had not congealed and was a very splintered theology and mythology accommodating mystery-styled practice to the hierarchical group that emerged with wealth and political clout to assemble what is the standard canon and foundation beliefs held as standard Christianity today.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels
http://www.philosophyforlife.org/stoicism-and-christianity/
http://quatr.us/philosophy/epicureans.htm
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Doc Obvious says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:13 am
I do not know if anyone else noticed this but the Watchtower leadership and Donald Trump seem to be alike in many ways. The Donald, this past week, talked too much and his own party wants to disown him from their party. Watchtower keeps talking, wants absolute control of people, and is entitled to money. Maybe it is a New York City thing. I don’t know.
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JBob says:
August 5, 2016 at 1:43 pm
The Watchtower alone can fix you..
It must be something in those Catskills and Adirondack waters.
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Oubliette says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:31 am
Unbelievable. The WTBTS continually prove they really do NOT care about victims of child abuse, they only care about protecting their own ASSets!
What the direction should be is this: “To ensure that elders comply with child-abuse reporting laws, two elders should immediately call the police or child protection authorities when the elders learn of an accusation of child abuse.”
But it isn’t.
Let’s review: It’s a cult!
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JBob says:
August 5, 2016 at 9:39 am
It’s not a cult.
It’s a business organization, or more precisely, disorganization. There is discipline in keeping records and tracking things, but a lack of discipline in establishing policies in light of changing social environment.
However, I understand part of the reason for going back to legal department–in USA, and abroad. Child protection laws regulating mandatory reporting by clergy vary from state to state, country to country. And, it’s a very complicated issue regarding the “sanctity of confessional” and legal obligations. The snap call is turn it over to authorities, but there is the small and rare issue of “witch hunts” where an accuser has a vendetta then magnifies an incident into a false accusation.
With this letter and previous policies, a false accusation results in sanctioning by JW authorities, but if law enforcement and legal system involved, then false accuser could be subject to civil and legal penalties–which isn’t a bad thing.
And, unfortunately, no justice system has perfection, because whether there is circumstantial or eye-witnesses, all systems are subject to biases and flawed recall.
Yet, in the archdiocese concessions and remedies guidelines, it notes, “educated about healthy relationships and boundaries in the context of Catholic moral teaching”. Difficulty recalling if ever there was a Watchtower pub that strongly suggested a child’s right to say “no” to an elder or anyone who violated their body–establishing boundaries that even a parent couldn’t/shouldn’t cross? It’s there in the Pentateuch and Torah but scriptures also raise Lot sleeping with his daughters, and Ibrahim taking his sister as wife, so…
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Outandabout says:
August 5, 2016 at 10:39 pm
Sorry, JBob, it is a Cult……and a business organisation. Google ‘identifying a cult’ and start reading. It’s all there, loud and clear.
Cults don’t necessarily have to be religious. A car dealership is a harmless cult. You are fed positive information about the product and made to attend product launches and watch product video’s. You are expected to dislike and make jokes about the opposition. You are expected to love and push the product and even if you think the product is a piece of trash, you must keep quiet about it and toe the line or risk being seen as disloyal and fired (shunned)
I know, I was there.
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rob says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:37 am
I truly wish that just one of the GB or the lawyers in this religion would wake up one morning and look at themselves in the mirror and say -” Today I am going to make things right – I will make sure that justice is served for the innocent victims that have suffered because of our flawed policies – Today I am going to speak out against this injustice – regardless of the consequences to me or the organization”
Unfortunately so far they probably only look at themselves in the mirror and admire themselves and relish in the fact that they are adored by about 7 million people worldwide.
But I believe that the day of reckoning is drawing closer for this organization.
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Telescopium says:
August 6, 2016 at 7:42 am
Rob,
If one of them did that, they’d be erased from existence. The Organization would silence them, demonize them, remove all references to them, and then pretend they never existed.
Based the experience of Raymond Franz.
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Twmack says:
August 5, 2016 at 9:48 am
This updated letter, I feel is an attempt to impress the lawful
authorities and to preserve their tax exemption status.
But like their previous communications it fails to deal
with the fundamental necessities. Until the statement that
“Victims have an absolute ‘Right’ to report abuse” is changed
to- “Have an absolute ‘Obligation’ to report abuse. —
Then this latest letter is useless. And dangerous people with
a dangerous obsession will remain at large to cause further
harm not only among children in the congregation, but in the
wider community also.
The elders need to be bypassed altogether, they’re just an
obstruction. Pedophilia in a civilised society is recognised
as a “Crime” and qualified criminal investigators need to
be brought in.
We had some good bricklayers and carpenters and even
window cleaners on the elder body of my former cong.
But when my house was burgled, I called the police
not the elders. Pedophilia many would agree is a much
more serious crime than burglary.
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 10:16 am
The article brings up the archdioses of Baltimore and you use that as an example of how Watchtower should set the standard. But you have to remember that instance is confined to one state’s jurisdiction and the laws of one state. Watchtower has to make policy for 50 different states with 50 different state laws and their rules of evidence. I brought this up before, sometimes if an elder reports it directly it can negatively effect the outcome of the case for the state. Lets take Wyoming for example. In Wyoming the state law calls for any person who has a suspicion of child abuse to report it. Except it does give this rule when it comes to evidence: Wyo. Stat. Ann. § 14-3-210
Evidence regarding a child in any judicial proceeding resulting from a report made pursuant to the reporting laws shall not be
excluded on the ground it constitutes a privileged communication [and the privilege of confidential communication may not be
claimed]:
• Between husband and wife
• Claimed under any provision of law other than § 1-12-101(a)(i) [regarding attorney-client or physician-patient privilege] and §
1-12-101(a)(ii) [regarding privilege of a clergy member or priest as it relates to a confession made to him or her in his or her
professional character if enjoined by the church to which he or she belongs]
So here the Wyoming Rules of Evidence prevents prosecutors from using informaiton gathered from a priest-penient communication as evidence against a defendant. That is why Elders need to call Legal is because there are 50 State laws plus the District of Columbia, plus, Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, Marshall Islands and a number of other territories that have different laws and different rules of evidence that only a licensed lawyer can understand and give legal advice too.
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Doc Obvious says:
August 5, 2016 at 10:47 am
That’s why the Federal government needs to address this issue. With every state with their own version of laws on Child Sex Abuse, it seems that the President has to use one of his executive privileges and institute a much needed law reform on CSA.
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:30 am
That is what I have stated in the past but on this website all anyone wants is Watchtower to be shut down. If you actually care about child safety you need to get state legislatures to codify in statutes that there is no privilidge but you guys don’t want that. You want to keep this as a subject to go back and forth with Watchtower. Constantly, I hear about the Royal Commission in Australia. First of all it is not a court that can impose fines or damages against anyone, it is like a blue ribbon commission here in the United States, they hear facts and then makes recommendations to the Legislature. Consistently Watchtower Australia talked about if the laws in each Provence were changed then they will comply with that. You want Watchtower to comply with laws that do not exist.
Second I constantly hear that the elders do nothing about anything or that they discourage people from reporting. It is impossible to prove a negative. I can’t come up to any of you and tell me prove that you never cheated on your mate, that is an impossible thing.
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Winston Smith says:
August 6, 2016 at 6:21 am
“but on this website all anyone wants is Watchtower to be shut down. If you actually care about child safety you need to get state legislatures to codify in statutes…”
Ahem, JWs are not allowed to vote. Are you suggesting that we use the political system to try to influence change? You speak like a JW apologist, John Doe. Are you suggesting that getting involved with politics to improve the safety of our children is acceptable? Are you actively pursuing this course?
WS
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John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:49 am
John Doe
You are mistaken, as the law does not equate priest-penitent communication with priest-victim communication. When an elder or priest is made aware of child abuse by a friend, relative, or the victim herself, they are obligated to report the matter to authorities and in no way is the information they received construed as a confession. As you are aware, Watchtower attempted to use this defense in Delaware, and it was rejected.
JR
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:56 am
What i stated was that is why elders are informed to contact Legal because laws differ by states. And yes if the conversation occurs during the official duties of the elders the privileged still applies because the communication is still a protected communication. Second the Delaware ruling is not a binding precedent on any other court outside of it’s jurisdiction. A court in California is not bound by a ruling from a court in New Jersey that is not how law works. Each state is separate from each other when it comes to jurisdiction and precedent.
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 12:09 pm
Most states do not confine priest-penitent communication as just confession but any communication between with spiritual responsibilities and a member of their congregation. The Conti appeals court wrote:
However, the public policy to protect the confidentiality of penitential communications that underlies the privilege and reporting statutes militates strongly against imposition of the duty claimed here to inform congregations of such communications. When the clergy member privilege was codified in Evidence Code section 1034, the California Law Revision Commission commented: “The extent to which a clergyman should keep secret or reveal penitential communications is not an appropriate subject for legislation; the matter is better left to the discretion of the individual clergyman involved and the discipline of the religious body of which he is a member.” (7 Cal. Law Revision Com. (1965) p. 202.) Courts should likewise be wary to intrude in this realm.
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John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 12:40 pm
John Doe
Under what circumstances has the proper application of child abuse reporting resulted in the negative outcome of a state case of abuse? This appears to be your only argument, and it is extremely weak, since we have seen no evidence that the proper and legal reporting of child abuse has caused harm to an individual or justice. The laws are designed to protect children, and were NOT designed to shield religious organizations (or secular organizations) from due process. I do admire your tenacity, but your arguments are a desperate attempt to defend the absurd. Perhaps if jw.org permitted comments, you would enjoy counting your field service time on the organization-approved site instead of an apostate site, for which your participation would result in severe discipline.
JR
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 2:07 pm
My reasoning actually holds water. In the State of Michigan the Appeals court ruled that a confession made to a Reverend about a sexual assult could not be admitted into the court.
One law firm reported on this issue the following way
“During the preliminary hearing at the district court level, the prosecution called the pastor to testify regarding his conversation with the defendant. The district court judge that allowed the initial testimony said that he did not think that the communication at issue fell within the religious “definition” of a confession, and thus should not be privileged. At the circuit court, the judge made it a priority to say that the communications between the pastor and defendant were privileged under MCL 727.5a(2) and should not have been admitted in court. The court of appeals then upheld the ruling of the circuit court in regard to the admissibility of the pastor’s testimony.
The Court of Appeals held that MCL 757.5a(2) was the appropriate source of the clergy-communicant privilege, and emphasized the importance of the pastor acting in his role as a pastor when the communications were made. Had the pastor been speaking to the defendant as a friend or a relative, it is likely that the communication would not have been protected by the privilege.
This ruling by the Court of Appeals is significant in that it affects every religious institution and clergy member in Michigan. This ruling should serve as a reinforcement of the privilege of clergy to speak to congregants in their role as clergy without fear of being called into court to testify about the conversations.”http://www.daltontomich.com/michigan_court_of_appeals_protects_clergy_congregant_privilege/
In New Hampshire State Supreme Court Decision Linda Desclos v Southern New Hampshire Medical Center. The court ruled that privileged information with regards to the psychiatric health of a patient is not admissible even though the evidence is relevant.
The court ruled:
“Super. Ct. R. 35(b)(1) (emphasis added). Accordingly, the trial court applied an
incorrect standard for discovery of privileged material. Relevance alone is not
the standard for determining whether or not privileged materials should be
disclosed. Rhone-Poulenc Rorer Inc. v. Home Indem. Co., 32 F.3d 851, 864 (3d
Cir. 1994); Alcon v. Spicer, 113 P.3d 735, 741 (Colo. 2005); Gould, Larson,
Bennet, Wells & McDonnell, P.C. v. Panico, 869 A.2d 653, 659-660 (Conn.
2005); R.K. v. Ramirez, 887 S.W.2d 836, 842 (Tex. 1994). “
John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 2:58 pm
John Doe
You are citing a case where the pastor’s testimony which is in question was clearly an application of confessional privilege between a clergyman and a defendant, NOT a victim of abuse. If you wish to argue your case, you will need to cite cases which specifically address the report made by a victim of abuse to an elder or clergy member. Please do not obfuscate by attempting to infer that courts treat abuse complaints the same as confession.
JR
John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 2:18 pm
Also I just re read the decision in the Delaware case. First this was a rejection for a motion for summary judgement. The court never ruled that Watchtower violated the rules. The reason for the denial was that the judge felt that because the adult member and the juvenile member were both disfellowshiped that there is a possibility of them not making a confession of the incident therefore would not fall under the privilege exemption of 16 Del. C 909. The judge ruled that there is matters of facts that must be decided in this case, though in my novice opinion of reading other Federal and State Opinions the court will be reversed on appeal because the court has no jurisdiction to look into the internal disciplinary actions of a religious organization.
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 3:48 pm
Before people start accusing me that I don’t know what I am talking about in the Delaware case. Here is a reference to the inability of secular courts to interfere with the internal disciplinary actions of a religion. The Delaware denial of summary judgement probably won’t hold up on appeal.
A communication made as part of the discipline enjoined by the cleric’s denomination
would also likely be “necessary to enable” a cleric to serve as a cleric.8
This element poses the
danger, however, of improperly invoking the court’s consideration and determination of a
religion’s parameters. In civil matters, the United States Supreme Court has repeatedly
instructed that our secular judiciary must avoid resolving controversies about a religion’s or
church’s internal governance or operating procedures. See Hosana-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran
Church & School v Equal Employment Opportunity Comm, 565 US ___; 132 S Ct 694; 181 L Ed
2d 650 (2012); The Serbian Eastern Orthodox Diocese for the United States of America &
Canada v Milivojevich, 426 US 696; 96 S Ct 2372; 49 L Ed 2d 151 (1976).
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MJ Bachman says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:56 pm
I dont really understand your argument. Basically you are saying there has to be a law in place mandating that these crimes be reported why? Because JW lack conscience and compassion and cant make a decision on their own? They have to as usual “be told” what to do by yet another law in order to do something?
John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 4:02 pm
John Doe
With regard to the Delaware case, Watchtower is not a defendant, although Watchtower attorneys Liguori and McNamara argued for the 2 defendants (elders) and the local congregation, which is subject to Watchtower’s rules. There are 2 conversations in question, one between the abuser and the elders, and the second between the victim and the elders. Watchtower could attempt to argue a defense in the case of the first conversation, claiming privilege, although as the court made clear, the conversation was clearly a disciplinary hearing which resulted in the disfellowshipping of both the perpetrator and the victim.
What is of interest is that among Jehovah’s Witnesses, a perpetrator has no expectation of privilege since his spiritual crimes most often result in a public disfellowshipping announcement. The details of the disfellowshipping are often public knowledge, which is the opposite of clergy privilege intent.
As for conversation #2, the victim was indeed disfellowshipped as a result of his admission of sexual activity with the abuser. He was treated not as a victim, but as a guilty party, and the elders violated state law by failing to contact law enforcement. The Watchtower attorneys failed to present evidence that conversation #2 falls under the 909 exemption for reporting.
And let’s face the facts – does anyone believe that these elders had the 909 exemption in mind when they met with both individuals, disfellowshipped both of them, then went about their lives without phoning the police or CPA? Of course not. They were simply men with no knowledge of the law carrying out disciplinary action against 2 baptized Witnesses. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but Watchtower bears a very large responsibility for not educating these elders in the proper way by informing them of their moral and legal obligation to phone the authorities.
In the end, that would have been the right thing to do, the law would be upheld, and this court case would not exist.
JR
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 4:10 pm
A communication made as part of the discipline enjoined by the cleric’s denomination
would also likely be “necessary to enable” a cleric to serve as a cleric.8
This element poses the
danger, however, of improperly invoking the court’s consideration and determination of a
religion’s parameters. In civil matters, the United States Supreme Court has repeatedly
instructed that our secular judiciary must avoid resolving controversies about a religion’s or
church’s internal governance or operating procedures. See Hosana-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran
Church & School v Equal Employment Opportunity Comm, 565 US ___; 132 S Ct 694; 181 L Ed
2d 650 (2012); The Serbian Eastern Orthodox Diocese for the United States of America &
Canada v Milivojevich, 426 US 696; 96 S Ct 2372; 49 L Ed 2d 151 (1976).
So even if disciplinary action is convened from the conversation it is still a privileged communication. And courts have long held that they have no rights in determining if a religions discipline is right or wrong.
People constantly sue Watchtower over a public reproof or a disfellowshiping but each time it is dismissed in the US because Watchtower can decide who is a member and who is not and can decide how to discipline within their interpretation of the scriptures. Even in the Anderson suit the Federal Judge wrote even if the body of elders conspired against you and lied, that he had no jurisdiction to intervene within internal discipline of a religion.
Anonymous says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:22 am
Oh my, do you think any GB members will be on that secret list?! I hope it gets exposed, sooner rather than later.
Also, does anyone know what typically happens when an elder contacts the legal department after an accusation of child abuse? What direction are they usually given?
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Will says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:50 am
It makes you wonder how Watchtower is handling this one:
http://abc7.com/news/former-oc-teacher-charged-w–sexually-assaulting-teen-boy/1458295/
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Will says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:54 am
Also, if there are victims in his congregation or any other he attended, will WT give up those names?
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Anonymous says:
August 5, 2016 at 1:53 pm
The names of sexually assaulted victims are generally withheld from public during legal proceedings in USA, especially if minor, but the names exposed publicly would be the persons accused of molestation.
And, the sticky issue too is whether the minor is of the age of consent (which can be 14yo in some states).
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susanna says:
August 5, 2016 at 11:55 am
Why don´t WT reognize that some of the victims are boys? In serveal places in this papers they write about “the victim and her parents”. Many of those victims are boys!
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Will says:
August 5, 2016 at 1:50 pm
They might be afraid of any homosexual implications. For many years WT has talked about gay priests in the Catholic Church and now WT has to deal with the reality of gay elders. WT is very meticulous about wording, so there has to be a reason. Only a crazy theory of mine
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Anonymous says:
August 5, 2016 at 1:55 pm
Point of order, molestation of boys or young men doesn’t mean the predator is solely “homosexual”–interested in sex with adult males. Here it’s a dominance issue and some pedophiles are married (to a woman), with children.
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 3:45 pm
John Redwood:
In People v Bragg COA 305140. Which you say does not apply in the case of the victim you have to read the decision just not what you want out of it. I have read the decision and the following parts apply to communication that a victim has with a cleric.
“Defendant’s statements to Vaprezsan fall within the statutory scope of privileged and
confidential communications under MCL 767.5a(2). The communication was necessary to
enable Vaprezsan to serve as a pastor, because defendant communicated with Vaprezsan in his
professional character ”
“The communication between defendant and Vaprezsan served a religious function—it
enabled Vaprezsan to provide guidance, counseling, forgiveness, and discipline to defendant.
Vaprezsan testified that he wanted “to get [defendant] some help,” and the first step necessitated
that defendant admit his actions. Vaprezsan averred that he “consoled” defendant and counseled
him as “a loving broken hearted minister.” ”
“The record clearly establishes that defendant’s communication to Vaprezsan falls within
MCL 767.5a(2)’s scope. The communication was therefore privileged and confidential.
Vaprezsan was not permitted to divulge the content of the communication at the preliminary
examination and the circuit court correctly precluded any further use of that evidence. ”
And the following is more to your assertion that communication between a cleric and a victim is not privileged.
“In criminal matters, “[w]aiver [of a privilege] is the intentional relinquishment or abandonment of a
known right or privilege.”
So it does require the waiving of the privilege the the privilege holder. So yes if the victim tells the elders in a state that there is this clergy-pertinent privilege that I want you to tell the police the elders don’t have a leg to stand on, but unless the victim or whoever tells them that, they are bound by the privilege.
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 4:34 pm
And the need for victims to give permission even against sexual assault cases are not unprecedented. The following covers sexual abuse advocates or domestic abuse advocates but it shows that State Statutes does recognize that victims do require the release of the privilege before testimony can be given. The following comes from Washington State Law Chapter 5.60
(7) A sexual assault advocate may not, without the consent of the victim, be examined as to any communication made between the victim and the sexual assault advocate.
(a) For purposes of this section, “sexual assault advocate” means the employee or volunteer from a community sexual assault program or underserved populations provider, victim assistance unit, program, or association, that provides information, medical or legal advocacy, counseling, or support to victims of sexual assault, who is designated by the victim to accompany the victim to the hospital or other health care facility and to proceedings concerning the alleged assault, including police and prosecution interviews and court proceedings.
(b) A sexual assault advocate may disclose a confidential communication without the consent of the victim if failure to disclose is likely to result in a clear, imminent risk of serious physical injury or death of the victim or another person. Any sexual assault advocate participating in good faith in the disclosing of records and communications under this section shall have immunity from any liability, civil, criminal, or otherwise, that might result from the action. In any proceeding, civil or criminal, arising out of a disclosure under this section, the good faith of the sexual assault advocate who disclosed the confidential communication shall be presumed.
(8) A domestic violence advocate may not, without the consent of the victim, be examined as to any communication between the victim and the domestic violence advocate.
(a) For purposes of this section, “domestic violence advocate” means an employee or supervised volunteer from a community-based domestic violence program or human services program that provides information, advocacy, counseling, crisis intervention, emergency shelter, or support to victims of domestic violence and who is not employed by, or under the direct supervision of, a law enforcement agency, a prosecutor’s office, or the child protective services section of the department of social and health services as defined in RCW 26.44.020.
(b) A domestic violence advocate may disclose a confidential communication without the consent of the victim if failure to disclose is likely to result in a clear, imminent risk of serious physical injury or death of the victim or another person. This section does not relieve a domestic violence advocate from the requirement to report or cause to be reported an incident under RCW 26.44.030(1) or to disclose relevant records relating to a child as required by *RCW 26.44.030(12). Any domestic violence advocate participating in good faith in the disclosing of communications under this subsection is immune from liability, civil, criminal, or otherwise, that might result from the action. In any proceeding, civil or criminal, arising out of a disclosure under this subsection, the good faith of the domestic violence advocate who disclosed the confidential communication shall be presumed.
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John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 5:11 pm
John Doe
First, in the Bragg case I must remind you that Bragg was the defendant, and nothing you posted from this case involved the victim. You seem to be interpreting the law on privilege yourself instead of letting the court interpret the law. If you find a case involving victim privilege, let me know.
Second, you stated that ” if the victim tells the elders in a state where there is this clergy-pertinent privilege that I want you to tell the police the elders don’t have a leg to stand on” – what exactly do you mean that the elders do not have a leg to stand on? It seems you are implying that the victim is willing to speak to the elders about an alleged abuse, but for some undisclosed reason is unwilling to speak to the police about the matter. You then imagine that the matter somehow enters a court of law, and the privileged communication between the victim and the elders is deemed inadmissible. Please tell me, when has this EVER happened?? How did the case enter the courts? With all due respect, your postulation is a bit of a fabrication not grounded in reality.
JR
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 5:19 pm
You want the court to say on all fours that a victim has to give permission to a cleric to remove the clergy-penitent privilege. Precedent does not require a precedent on all fours but a case on point. The Michigan court said that:
“In criminal matters, “[w]aiver [of a privilege] is the intentional relinquishment or abandonment of a
known right or privilege.
It takes a actual waiver of the privilege for the privilege to be removed from the clergy member. And second it happens all the time that abuse victims tell someone they trust but doesn’t want to get the police involved. Statically there are far more sexual abuses in the community than what is reported because victims feel ashamed of what happened or they don’t want to get someone in trouble. You act like that is beyond the realm of possibilities when every statistic says differently.
I am presenting you with facts and with courts opinions and all you come back with is that does not apply in this case because not every detail is the same. If not every detail is the same there would never be any precedents in courts. You have to take that is as close as possible to what you are dealing with. And again the Michigan court ruled that privilege requires an actual waiver of that privilege for it to be broken.
And second if in a state where the priest-penitent privilege exist and it is reported by the clergy member the DA may not choose to prosecute because they know the law so there would be no direct precedent.
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John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 5:52 pm
John Doe
If you had read my article you would already know that I acknowledged the incredible trauma faced by victims of abuse, and I cited a lengthy quote from the National Institutes of Health to back this up. Because of this trauma, only qualified individuals should be involved, including law enforcement and child protective services professionals. The consultation with Jehovah’s Witness elders serves to A) facilitate congregational judicial action and B) facilitate “spiritual” assistance, which in the case of Witness elders, involves a few scriptures, a pat on the back, and the worthless counsel to “leave matters in Jehovah’s hands.” Both goals accomplish more harm than good, and in many cases re-victimize the victim, forcing them to recount the sexual or physical abuse which took place. The men listening are ill-qualified tradesmen and window washers with zero qualifications or training.
I will put it to you again – when has there ever been a case involving waiver of privilege for a victim of sexual abuse, where the lack of waiver has prevented the authorities or a DA from proceeding with their case?
There is no question that many victims have no desire to be dragged through criminal or civil proceedings, and it is their right to divulge what did or did not happen to them. But clergy members or other individuals who learn that a crime has been committed are obligated by law nearly everywhere to come forward and report child abuse when an allegation has been made. Thankfully, not only Watchtower, but all institutions are governed by the same requirements to report abuse, and we are beginning to see justice for victims along with the protection of potential victims by the sanctions brought against perpetrators and the organizations who have shielded them from prosecution.
JR
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John Doe says:
August 5, 2016 at 5:26 pm
Also i showed you proof that in the State of Washington a sexual abuse or domestic abuse advocate needs to have the victims permission in order to testify. Why would the Legislature of Washington codify that rule if in fact it is a reality that victims don’t necessarily want things that they told in confidence repeated in open court. Or that in fact victims themselves choose not to testify even or even want to proceed with prosecution because it happens. Again you just come back with this is what should happen. If you truly want changes and just not use it as a way to attack Watchtower then get state legislatures to change the privilege statutes. If you are unwilling to do that then i think it is clear you just want to use this as a pulpit for your attack against them.
And let me say this. I wish Watchtower would change certain policies but I don’t live in a dream world where everything should happen because I want it to happen, either I will try and make changes the right way or leave it alone. If you want true changes, write to your state legislative rep asking them to change the privilege law so that anyone can testify about what they hear or see. It worked once before when Legislatures adjusted the statutes of limitations for sexual abuse but that is not what you want. You want this as a cause. You want this to be in the headlines as much as possible not for the victims’ safety but for your own sake.
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John Redwood says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:14 pm
John Doe
I think you are missing the point completely. The article and similar articles imply that Watchtower policy is the problem, not the current legislation in most states. The Governing Body and its legal department has engineered policies which have done irreparable harm to countless victims of abuse. Our job is to create awareness and inform the public as well as Jehovah’s Witnesses of matters of which they are generally ignorant. Once aware, they can make their own informed decision and vote with their feet to stay or to leave.
It seems we are doing our job very well, and it is notable that even a Watchtower apologist such as yourself has a problem with “certain policies.” If you object to the facts presented on JW Survey, you are welcome to spend your time over at jw.org – but I will warn you, they wont let you comment there.
JR
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John Doe says:
August 6, 2016 at 7:42 am
And you are missing the point in fact because you are not recognize that we live in a world of laws and in a court system with Rules of Evidence that dictates that kind of evidence is allowed in a court. You don’t want Watchtower to abide by the same laws that everyone else has to abide by you want them to abide by your own set of laws written just for them. That isn’t how due process works, everyone has to abide by the same rules.
Second you talk about how the Elders and Watchtower should have no part in this process which is your right to feel that way. But lets use this as an example. Lets say a child sexual abuse is reported to the police and either the DA decides not to prosecute or there is no conviction. Then in your scenario the person then will have no reproduction in the congregation and they could do whatever they want because the Elders should not be allowed to do anything with these types of cases.
Third in your article you immediately say that the reason they say preferably the parents is because they don’t want non witness parents involved. In reality the reason stated in earlier points in the letter is because often the parents is involved. Statistically 30-40% of victims is abused by a family member. And even if the parent is not involved it is easy for a parent to make excuses for another family member that abused the victim. Even in the Conti case Kendrick abused his step daughter initially which proves why the direction is that it is not always the parent because why would it be if it is the accused. You just immediately attribute nefarious actions no matter what they say.
John Redwood says:
August 6, 2016 at 10:09 am
John Doe
As already explained, we absolutely DO want Watchtower to obey the law and rules of evidence. The laws are for the protection of children and must be obeyed, or there will be civil and criminal penalties. This is exactly why Watchtower is facing prosecution and civil suits at this very moment. Second, if the DA does not prosecute a case, it’s for good reason, including lack of evidence. A clergyman is legally allowed to offer comfort to the victim of a crime, but should never interfere with an investigation, or obstruct justice by intentionally failing to contact police and CPA when an accusation is made. Finally, we already know that children are sometimes abused by family members, but don’t confuse the term family members with the term parents. statistics are different for each group. But one thing is certain, as I have made it clear, Watchtower makes absolutely no reference or provision for families where one parent is a Witness and one is not. If you had any connection to the JW organization you would know why.
JR
free@last says:
August 5, 2016 at 6:21 pm
John Doe,
I appreciate the amount of time you have dedicated in researching past legal precedent to defend the Watchtower’s legal standing in this issue (John Redwood, kudos to you as well for your well thought out responses) but I fear you are missing the point. Remember, we are not just talking about any old corporation who is using the legal system to defend its actions – we are discussing a religion, not just any religion, but one who claims that it teaches the truth and is the ONLY religion on earth who is representing the Almighty and whose members will be the only ones saved from God’s wrath in the end. Therefore it doesn’t matter what any human law says, they are accountable to the Lord and as such they should be acting in a way that is above reproach both legally and spiritually. Even if the law changed today and sexual abuse of minors became legal, that still wouldn’t change God’s view on the matter and as His claimed representatives on earth, the Watchtower org’s view on the matter should not change and their actions should align with the bible FIRST. That is why the members and participators on this site are dedicated to “shut down the Watchtower” as you put it. Because it does not matter if they are well within their legal right to continue on their current course. They are falsely misleading many people and have caused irreparable emotional damage to countless of individuals whose only “crime” is that they want to serve God and live their lives according to His principles who are desperately searching for the truth. We understand more than most that it is difficult to come to terms with the fact that this organization is not what it claims to be, and we are here to hopefully prevent others from making the same mistake that we had in following them. In the end it is up to you to decide, but as you are well aware, being a witness is not something you can do “part-time”. Either stick with them and avoid us “apostates” as you are told, or step into the light with us. The truth, the REAL truth, has been with us all along – Matthew 7: 15 – 20 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
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John Doe says:
August 6, 2016 at 8:37 am
First of all. All religions claim to be the only true religion on the face of the earth. If they didn’t believe that then they would belong to a different religion. Second my points were that Watchtower has to abide by the laws of the states or countries in which they live, that includes the rules of evidence. Lets take the fact that I gave evidence that sexual abuse and domestic abuse advocates in the State of Washington, need permission from the victim to give testimony. If the victim does not give the permission to testify whatever that advocate says is inadmissible and cannot be considered by a jury for a conviction or acquittal. And of course what those advocates do is among the most noble things that people can ever do for work. So in like manner Watchtower has to abide by the laws set out by the states that they reside in and again that is 60+ jurisdictions and rules of evidence that have to be considered. That is why Watchtower tells Elders to call Legal so that a lawyer can look at the law in that jurisdiction and can determine what is needed in order to protect people. You want a very cut and dry thing, if X happens this is what should happen after. The law does not work like that.
Lets consider even your assertion that if laws of age of consent was gone that Watchtower should still report people to the police because of it being a higher standard. Report them for what. Police can only investigate actual crimes and the courts can only adjudicate actual crimes. If in a state the law is written that the age of consent is 16 and a 40 year old has sex with a 16 year old yes that is disgusting and reprehensible but it is not illegal, and if you call the police on the 40 year old you know what they will say to you. There is nothing we can do about it. In US jurisprudence there is the requirement of both mens rea and actus reus, which means one both needs the mental capacity to commit a crime and that one actually has to commit an actual crime.
And well thank you for admitting that the people on this site want Watchtower just to be shut down. John Redwood keeps saying that no one on here wants them to be shut down but obviously that is false.
Anonymous says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:26 pm
This practice of requiring the victim’s permission for details revealed in a “safe haven” also published in a public forum was established over years by women’s groups who were outraged at the “raping again” of the victims in court. Likewise, sexual abuse victims–thankfully, I am not one–face similar issues where the details of what happened are required to be revisited and revealed to an audience, even if limited to the respondent and court officers.
This has focused on the cleric right to maintain internal administration of the religion, and not secular counselors or advocates who receive information regarding abuse. As John Doe has described in the USA and other countries where respect for “freedom of religion” is right of individuals, courts and legislatures are excessively and painfully detailed at circumventing violations of the First Amendment. Even Executive Orders are subject to this scrutiny by courts, so the suggestion that a president can waive a wand and alone make the situation resolve isn’t assessing the total environment and impact of constitutional and legal components.
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free@last says:
August 6, 2016 at 11:07 am
Hi John Doe,
Actually, most religions do not make the claim that they are the only true religion. I found that to be pretty shocking considering it was the exact opposite of what I was told growing up as a witness. I soon learned it was just one of the many lies I was told about “Christendom”. Some do make that claim, but I have learned to be cautious of any organized religion making that statement. Jesus said that only He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no man can come to the Father except through Him. So in my opinion any religious organization or preacher etc. that teaches that the only way to salvation is through their teachings and joining their group, should cause your bull**** alarm to ring. Our power as Christians (power to do all that He asks us to do, not like super magic powers although that would be cool) comes from our relationship with the Lord, so many false prophets try to disconnect us from Him and point us to themselves which weakens us and empowers them, but I digress. Yes, I completely understand that that the Watchtower has to abide by the laws and the rules of evidence. But wouldn’t you agree that no matter what the laws are, they are always going to be inferior to the laws God has set out for us to follow? They were written by imperfect men who do not always have the best intentions. However, the laws of our Father were written in love, not to lord over us, but to protect us and as His followers we should strive to imitate him in all manners. Any religion, but especially one that claims to be only true religion, should be the shining example of following God’s laws and principles. Even if they have reached the limit of what they can do according to the legal system, there is still more that they can do to “keep the congregation clean”. 1) Parents should be warned about a potential child abusers in their midst 2) Anyone accused of abuse should not be put in positions of authority or given “privileges” as a precautionary measure. I realize this may seem unfair to them at the time, but they should take comfort in the fact that they can resume their privileges once they reach paradise or whatever. 3) Anyone in a position of authority who will be around children (MS, Elders, even pioneers IMO) should be background checked. This is a VERY common practice in most churches to background check anyone who will be around children and it serves as a protection to the congregation. 4) anyone who was hurt by the org’s policies should be given a sincere apology at the very least and financial compensation for their pain and suffering. However, it appears that the organization is more concerned with protecting themselves and doing the bare minimum according to the law, then protecting God’s children, showing true Christian love, and letting their “light shine” among men as His chosen representatives.
Finally, John Redwood is correct, most people on this site are more level-headed than I am, and the Watchtower’s destruction is not their goal. I can only speak for myself, but I would destroy the org brick by brick with my bare hands if I could. I suppose I should just rely on His word though and trust in Him. Romans 12:17-21 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
I feel better already, that’s the power kicking in I guess 🙂
MJ Bachman says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:37 pm
For all my parents twarped credulity I do have to say that if we had ever so much as had been touched they would had killed with bare hands. Sure the probably let us die if we needed a blood transfussion but this would had pushed them past the edge. And still they new about cases where children had been molested and never raised the alarm. Everything was hushed up and handled by the elder henchmen. Disturbing.
Reply
ScotWm says:
August 5, 2016 at 8:56 pm
Regarding: “Jehovah’s Witnesses are facing a tidal wave of litigation … Their legal departments worldwide are being taxed, and they are forced to retain outside counsel from third party law firms …”
This is probably the most important aspect of the entire article. So far, Watchtower’s legal strategy has been to stall, lie, withhold evidence and appeal unfavorable judgments. We can only hope that Watchtower assets are being strained to the limit.
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JBob says:
August 5, 2016 at 10:44 pm
One more note, regarding the $4,000 / day fine–(which obviously is more money than some folks earn in a month) is a drop in the bucket–a wrist-slap if 2001 annual gross revenues ($951 mil) have remained stagnant or risen by jwfacts.com (Paul Grundy’s) statistics to approx. $1 B / year.
Quick math is US$146,109.68 per hour, 365 days, 24 hours a day. (How’s that blog and YouTube channel revenue stream doing, by the way? Google Ads? maybe clean a few more restrooms and office buildings?). Let’s say WBTS has 10,000 volunteers at HQ, but has now shed 5% of that workforce. US$1,000-2k/month stipend * 12 months = US$24k (1,000 / 365 = US$2.74 per day * 10000 = 27,400 labor cost per day). US$120,000 and not even breaking a sweat.
Multinational conglomerate, religious nonprofit–tax-exempt. Excretes gold.
General Charities assisting the general public?
[crickets chirping]
Paul Grundyhttp://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TMHKDA8O6QEHK9VTP
Note page 6 of this form – it lists income sources as “retirement and thrift savings plans (1099-Rs)”; also note the 1099-DIV from PRU shares, which means some key member had a life policy active in 2001, held by WBTS NY [PRU converted from mutual to stock insurance that year]http://pdfs.citizenaudit.org/2015_08_T/11-1753577_990T_201408.pdf
https://www.irs.gov/uac/about-form-1099r
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099div.pdf
https://www.tsp.gov/PlanParticipation/AboutTheTSP/index.html#whoAdministers
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John Doe says:
August 6, 2016 at 10:52 am
Let me ask everyone here that feels that Watchtower should be shut down or held accountable because of what you feel is their complicity in sexual child abuse. What do you want Watchtower to do going forward to protect children? Do you want background checks on all members of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world? What about countries with age of consents, such as Korea at 14 years old, which is low? What do you want Watchtower to do in countries like Liberia that does not have a robust criminal justice system and records of sex offenders, which would rule out background checks? What would you constitute child abuse because technically an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old where the age of consent is 18, the 18 year old is a child abuser? What happens when a person is acquitted of sexual abuse by a court is it no longer the Elders problem?
Now before you answer these questions remember that sexual abuse is a real problem in organizations that already do background checks, like the military, schools and even law enforcement agencies.
I would like to hear actual answers and not just that they should do more. You want changes but have you actually thought of the logistics of changes around the world.
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John Redwood says:
August 6, 2016 at 11:31 am
John Doe
I agree, we need to hear from our readers.
And In never denied that there are readers who wish that the Watchtower should be “shut down.” I just happen to not be one of them. I believe in freedom of religion, so long as the religious beliefs do not indoctrinate or cause harm to its members or anyone associated with the religion. Watchtower is not going anywhere soon, as it carries the inertia of more than 100 years of growth, and many followers cling to their fellowship with each other, as a brotherhood. I was part of the brotherhood for 46 years, and I care for everyone individually. I have friends at every level of the organization, right up to corporation members and governing body helpers. I have communicated with some of them with regard to child abuse issues, and I know their positions.
Watchtower is in a difficult and self-inflicted spot right now. They want to have meetings, assemblies, and “educational programs”, but do not want to submit to background checks for any elders or servants. They want to exist as an independent theocracy , taking advantage of the freedoms they have in most countries, while denying their own members the same freedoms of religion without severe consequences for leaving this religion. Non-attendance at meetings brings about almost instant disconnection from the brotherhood, and speaking out against the religion results in public humiliation by disfellowshipping.
Everyone has a role to play in making the world a better place – some are activists, some are journalists, some are inventors and engineers, and some are attorneys. Those who write for Survey are activists who wish to inform and educate, and allow the public to make their own informed decision.
Regarding the 17/18 year old question, this has already been addressed by the courts as well as Watchtower policy. I would suggest that you study this for yourself. It has no bearing on our discussion, as we are positing that whatever the law demands, Watchtower adhere to that law, as well as subject elders and servants to criminal background checks. If these men have nothing to hide, there should be no objection to this.
Problem is, Watchtower knows it has men with criminal backgrounds serving as elders and servants, and they do not wish to upset the apple cart and expose these men. Just 2 days ago, yet another former elder was arrested for child molestation, and the elders knew about this since 2007/2008. Police are now looking for additional victims. Why? Because elders failed to report this to the police, placing many additional children in harms way.
http://orangecountyda.org/civica/press/display.asp?layout=2&Entry=4889
JR
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JBob says:
August 6, 2016 at 1:29 pm
As John Redwood noted in article, this issue is bigger than you and me, as it involves not only religious establishments, but athletic associations, college athletic departments, charities, public schools and dating back to the 1970’s and 80’s childcare facilities.
Childcare facilities were notorious for not requiring background checks.
But, the issue for JW’s would be that ANY baptized initiate is considered ordained, so would background checks be prerequisite for baptism? Some groups ordain pastors but have very decentralized authority, the Watchtower is very centralized.
Also, would these reporting laws apply to every member of the group or only the elders, ministerial servants, and other oversight roles? Sometimes members confide in another trusted member (their peer or someone who has more years within the group), would the law require those individuals to call the law enforcement? or child-protection agencies?
Where does it end–if I see some parent wailing away on their rug-brat at a convention, can I call the human and social services to report child abuse? Is Watchtower obligated to let authorities through the gate? Is any religion obligated to do so?
So, as stated over and over, child protection is at state level and not Federal because social services is administered at state level not Federal (in USA). Statutes of limitation on sexual assault and abuse are also on a jurisdiction by jurisdiction basis, but news bulletin–so are vehicle registrations, banking and insurance.https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/manda/
In the case presented by John Doe, Delaware, these are the state requirements as summarized, supplemented by state and federal definitions of legal terms; as you can see, it gets murkier as we dive into this because it involves the legal authorities and law of the land making a judgement call on who is and who is not a “clergyman” or assigning the term to groups which wish not to use it, in the case of Watchtower, Inc.
And, clergy-penitent for USA purposes,
“Clergy-penitent privilege and mandated reporting[edit]
In U.S. practice, the confidentiality privilege has been extended to non-Catholic clergy and non-sacramental counseling, with explicit clergy exemptions put into most state law over the past several decades. In most states, information gained within a confession or private conversation is considered privileged and may be exempted from mandatory reporting requirements.[6]:2”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest%E2%80%93penitent_privilege#Clergy-penitent_privilege_and_mandated_reporting
Clergy
“Rule 506 (Communications to Clergy ) of the Federal Rules of Evidence provides:
(a) Definitions. As used in this rule:
(1) A “clergyman” is a minister, priest, rabbi, or other similar functionary of a religious organization, or an individual reasonably believed so to be by the person consulting him.
(2) A communication is “confidential” if made privately and not intended for further disclosure except to other persons present in furtherance of the purpose of the communication.”
Delaware
Professionals Required to Report
Ann. Code Tit. 16, § 903
Any person, agency, organization, or entity that knows or in good faith suspects child abuse or neglect shall make a report. For
purposes of this section, ‘person’ shall include, but not be limited to:
• Physicians, interns, residents, nurses, or medical examiners
• Other persons in the healing arts, including persons licensed to render services in medicine, osteopathy, or dentistry
• School employees, social workers, or psychologists
• Hospitals or health-care institutions
• The Medical Society of Delaware
• Law enforcement agencies
Reporting by Other Persons
Ann. Code Tit. 16, § 903
Any person who knows or in good faith suspects child abuse or neglect shall make a report.
Institutional Responsibility to Report
This issue is not addressed in the statutes reviewed.
Standards for Making a Report
Ann. Code Tit. 16, § 903
A report is required when the reporter knows or in good faith suspects child abuse or neglect.
Privileged Communications
Ann. Code Tit. 16, § 909
Only attorney-client and clergy-penitent privileges are recognized.
Inclusion of Reporter’s Name in Report
Ann. Code Tit. 16, § 905
Although reports may be made anonymously, the Division of Family Services shall request the name and address of any person
making a report.
Disclosure of Reporter Identity
This issue is not addressed in the statutes reviewed.
Reply
Trish says:
August 7, 2016 at 8:30 am
Background checks of those who hold positions of trust ie. Elders and ministerial servants.
Direct reporting to the authorities immediately any so much as suspicion of abuse.
Refer victims to PROFESSIONALS for counselling.
Women to serve as elders, it is completely inappropriate to force a victim to detail abuse to a panel of untrained men.
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Quendi says:
August 6, 2016 at 11:59 am
As someone who has been tried by a judicial committee, I want to comment on a point John made in his excellent piece. Judicial committees ask the kinds of questions that go beyond getting at the truth. In my case, I believed many of the questions I was asked were prurient in nature and were put forward merely to satisfy a disgusting and wanton curiosity that was pornographic in nature. That was hard enough for me to endure as an adult man. I can’t even begin to imagine how terrifying that would be for a child to endure and all the more so if that child was forced to recount these details with their assailant present.
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John Redwood says:
August 6, 2016 at 1:22 pm
Great points Quendi.
I am sorry for what you went through, but sadly as you know you are one of tens of thousands who have gone through this. The trauma of the interrogation is for many as bad as the abuse itself. The madness needs to stop, and qualified individuals need to help those victimized. Most JWs including elders have no idea what the issues are until they are faced with them head on, and their lack of training and qualifications jeopardizes the victims, who are already in a fragile state.
When I look back on the elders who served in my congregation, I am appalled at the backgrounds of some of these individuals, who as you say are supposed to be appointed by “holy spirit.” One elder (the service overseer) was a terrible example of a minister; he showed up for service every Saturday with NO return visits, and just sat in the car while everyone else did the work. He also filed for bankruptcy and had his wages garnished from the company he worked for, despite being an able-bodied individual who could have made a good living. A second elder had homosexual experiences when he was young, forced a girlfriend to obtain an abortion (before becoming a JW) and has an ongoing “problem” with pornography which has has admitted to myself and at least one other brother. A third elder has an explosive temper and yells at his wife in public frequently. My wife went with this couple to the 2014 international assembly and was frightened out of her mind by his behavior during and after the assembly. A fourth elder has a similar violent streak and actually showed me the permanently destroyed passenger side door panel he demolished in a fit of rage. He has no education, yet serves as a “faithful” elder and was school overseer for many many years, despite being one of the worst speakers in the circuit. A fifth elder covered up the scandal involving his daughter (who faded long ago) and protected her from being disfellowshipped for fornication despite her close connection to several Witnesses. A sixth elder (no longer an elder, but a MS) recovered from multiple scandals including one involving underage pornography, and is one of the most haughty individuals I have ever met, which is absurd considering his personal failings in life. These are just a few of the men serving in my old congregation, and it doesn’t even scratch the surface when compared to what has happened in surrounding congregations where I live and around the country.
One thing for sure, there are no secure checks and balances which prevent deviant individuals from becoming elders. I spent many years as a servant, and was being directed on the path to becoming an elder, but I had no respect for an arrangement where I knew full well that I became a servant with no background check or any other real means for vetting me; it just seemed too easy to say yes and accept these responsibilities. Elders and servants simply have to answer a brief question or two right before the announcement is made (such as the question of whether they have ever been guilty of child abuse) – and they can lie about this without anyone knowing different. The loopholes for corrupt individuals becoming elders are so large that it is no wonder some people refer to the JW organization as a pedophile’s paradise. It’s absolutely true, and I have witnessed this for myself.
Then, as you say, these men become the ones asking the prurient questions to victims of abuse (or those accused of sexual misconduct) – and once they sit on these committees once, the next one and the next one becomes easier and easier until they have become desensitized to the seriousness of what they are involved in. Yes, you are right, there is no “holy spirit” involved in these appointments or the decisions rendered by their committees – it’s just a phantom belief which exists in the minds of Witnesses and is used to justify the actions of uneducated and unqualified individuals.
JR
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JBob says:
August 6, 2016 at 2:09 pm
Who shot JR? or, to the point, who put the vinegar in JR’s Cheerios?
As I dropped out, I realized this point that the “holy spirit” magic was not operating as described in mythology with this group. I think that is the fragile thread some JW’s cling to and hide their better judgement to maintain “the dream of something better”. The humble JW who does their family worship, reads their Bible, may not understand every letter of the Watchtower literature, yet is obedient to rules that come down deserves better (even Catholicism and other Protestant groups admire this adherence to structure).
On this point, “One thing for sure, there are no secure checks and balances which prevent deviant individuals from becoming elders” this is where the Watchtower (which boasts of being on the cutting edge of legal defense of freedom) drinks it’s own bath water. Reality tells them it isn’t so, yet the rules and practice do not setup checks and balances to flush out deviant individuals that do make it through a gate-keeper vetting process.
Ideally, a young man — single or married — would be nominated by his local leadership, or preferrably, he (or she) puts forth their request due to a “calling”, the name propagated up through the CO to HQ where extensive background review would happen. Much like government official appointments with a law enforcement agency performing a background check.
After the background check a lengthy training program to prepare the applicant for leadership role. And, the program could offer specialization–managing, teaching, shepherding, or counseling. An intensive training program with continuing education not just the weekend group sessions currently held for MS and EBs.
Consider that this group puts its missionaries and marketers through months of training, if not years.
When a JW has an issue, secular assistant groups and points of contact will often suggest talking about a crisis with your pastor, if a person hesitates to accept professional psychology or counseling assistance. They typically have in mind the role typical pastors and some priests perform in referring persons to further help. That doesn’t typically happen for a JW in crisis–it could result in judiciary process, sanctioning, and decline in status. Thus, no “safe haven” where one feels comfortable discussing issues, if you’re aware of how “the game” is played.
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ruthlee says:
August 6, 2016 at 12:22 pm
dear jon doe for my twopence worth I would like the tower to fall the business to fail and all their prophecies to come true so we all go to lala land with our pandas. If the society would just stop telling lies and just advertise their wares in the marketplace I’m sure some dim fools would bite. Us all who have been damaged by this crazy pseudoreligion would like some compensation even if we gave it all to a charity of our choice. It’s not money it is principle we who 100% believed all that doctrine rubbish want it all to end. Well I do. I do not believe one iota of their doctrine from 1914 being the big jc coronation to the overlapping generation aka creative accounting. So why on earth would I trust them with secular policies if they can’t get the theology right. They have no clue on the bible so have no clue about child protection. Hell our lot cannot even organise the FS maps properly!!!! I think ive made my point . Jezebel needs to drop… Ruthlee
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Telescopium says:
August 7, 2016 at 7:37 am
Ruthlee! The territory maps! Oh, the memories!
Do I do both sides until we get to that street? Or is it right side only?
What does orange highlight mean?
Did I just do a Do Not Call?
Wait a minute! I just did this street with So-And-So last week! She said it’s on her card!
Oh no, I just dropped it between the console and my seat!
Is she allowed to write on the back? I though only an elder could do that?
Reply
Telescopium says:
August 7, 2016 at 7:24 am
John Doe & John Redwood,
Since you requested responses from the readership…
Child sexual abuse within congregations should have been addressed long ago. The reason it has grown to noteworthy proportions is due to the Witnesses’ mistaken prioritization of principles, namely:
-Keeping Jehovah’s name clean
-Maintaining the Organization’s ‘spotless’ reputation
-Protecting the abused child
-Maintaining confidentiality
-Moving the ‘sinner’ to repentance
-Protecting other children (not victims)
-Being obedient to the ‘secular authorities’
These principles all appear positive, but when a conflict arises, the Organization will put Jehovah’s name and its own reputation ahead of any of the others. That means if there is a conflict, as in an abuse case, the child will lose.
Like I said, this all should have been a non-issue long ago – the parties involved should have been encouraged to report the crime to the police. But the stance taken by the leadership was to protect Jehovah’s name, protect their reputation, and ‘help’ the victims by focusing on a future paradise where “the former things will not be called to mind”. To compound the inadequacy of this solution, the indoctrination of the parents in some of these situations leads them to keep things quiet and preserve the peace in the congregation. This is at the expense of the child victim and is a subversion of the parental responsibilities, truly a disgusting result of the high control exerted on the faithful.
To answer your question John Doe, I don’t think more laws or background checks is the answer. As you say, these measures don’t prevent the crimes from happening in other organizations.
Instead, I think the high control needs to be broken. Parents need to be free to protect their kids, not guilted into protecting the Organization. Crimes should be encouraged to be reported. The congregation should be available to assist the victim’s recovery through recognized channels, perhaps assisting monetarily. Take the opportunity to give freely what they received freely.
These are based on the principle of helping the children. As the Witnesses don’t handle principles very well, I don’t believe any of these things will change. The Organization will continue to do what it wants and trample all the peons along the way. It is for this reason I yearn for the dismantling of the current Organization. If it’s replaced by one that is not so controlling but still guides the faithful to a sense of true worship, I will be happy for them.
I’d like to make one last comment. Laws are not a substitute for principles. Principles override laws. The principle here is: Protect the children. Its simple, really – just protect the children. If you spot a weak area, change it to protect the children. Why fight against this?
Jehovah doesn’t need protection. The children do.
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Big B says:
August 7, 2016 at 4:18 pm
@ Telescopium;
Well said and well delivered. Principles outweigh written or oral laws hands down. Protect children, report the perverts to the proper authorities and if found guilty, in a court of law, disfellowship them accordingly. The two witness rule be damned! Were two witnesses required when a woman was raped in a field? No; her word was inviolate and overrode the word of her attacker. The perpetrator was found guilty and punished by stoning; period.
Could not the scriptural reference below be applied to a molested child as well as to a betrothed damsel? Were two witnesses required? The WBTS (i.e. ‘governing body’) are not very savvy or as knowledgeable Biblically as they want everyone to believe, are they? And they keep calling themselves ‘spirit begotten and appointed by God’s Holy spirit, really?
Deut. 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
Deut. 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deut. 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/22.html
Following this simple example would get them off the 2 witness rule, but do they use it….Noooo?!
Reply
Trish says:
August 7, 2016 at 8:25 am
As an ex JW who was victim to prolonged sexual abuse AND who now has a criminology degree and works with the offender population ….thank you for this article.
I would like to expand on the point made regarding elders being untrained and I’ll equipped of a)handle these investigations and b) counsel victims. Their lack of knowledge and training is also present by the fact that even if they reprove or disfellowshipp then reinstated a ‘repentant’ sex offender, they are still allowed or again permitted to be in field service. In other words, they are permitted to go out into the community and knock on doors. Even if they are accompanied by an elder in service, this shows a lack of understanding of how a pedophiles brain works. Obviously, if the offender while on services comes across someone and thinks “me likely” they can make mental note of the address and return on their own time. Duh. In this sense the elders are acting more like wing men, taking their single buddy to the club to pick up chicks. Totally endangering the public as wellong as the children in the hall who meet multiple times per week in the presence of said offender.
Additionally, you often hear the argument made by jws that they do “more” for abuse victims then “most” other religions. Wrong. While jws still don’t encourage external counselling by TRAINED professionals, even the Catholic Church has taken accountability for their past and now pays for victims counselling.
These two issues pose tremendous risk to the public, the congregation, and a victims mental and emotional well being. Elders are not equipped to handle any of this and this is why first and foremost it should al ways be reported to the authorities.
Sex offenders are not easily rehabilitated. It is their innate nature to offend. Beware.
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Trish says:
August 7, 2016 at 8:34 am
I apologize for all the terrible spelling errors above. I typed it quickly and my auto correct appearsize to have corrected incorrectly! Lol
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Telescopium says:
August 7, 2016 at 12:55 pm
Trish,
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I would like to ask, in your experience working with offenders is it possible for a sexual offender to be 100% rehabilitated?
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Trish says:
August 7, 2016 at 1:11 pm
It depends on the nature of his/her offending. But generally speaking in terms of pedophilia….not without extensive and consistent life long professional intervention. This is not to say it can’t work, but it certainly cannot work by someone simply saying “now brother ____ remember, you should not be alone with children.” And considering it handled.
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Hardy says:
August 7, 2016 at 3:14 pm
@KTMmadBrit Too means also Look it up. what get’s my goat is peeple thet kan’t spell werth shet. Too means excessive. As in too many o’s. To is going somewhere. Don’t use spell check to correct it is yewsless.
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Hardy says:
August 7, 2016 at 3:16 pm
@KTMmadBrit. Too means also. Look it up. what get’s my goat is peeple thet kan’t spell werth shet. Too means excessive. As in too many o’s. To is going somewhere. Don’t use spell check to correct it is yewsless. JW survey is full of hate. This site makes Cedar’s video, Apostates Who Love Jehovah’s Witnesses a lie.
Reply
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23 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
Reply
Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
Tell the police.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
Rick Viger says:
November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
S.T. says:
November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
Paul says:
April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
ian York says:
April 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm
It is hard to fathom how anybody could believe in the legitimacy of Watchtower’s claim to be God’s only organization on earth today when considering it started with the likes if this oaf. One would have to have a belief in predestination, an unscriptural concept, in order to square the circle of the now regarded apostate beliefs if the founder members and today’s dogma.
Reply
Abby says:
May 10, 2016 at 2:51 am
After pioneering for over a decade, I wondered where the GB got the 70 hours requirement. Did Jesus or the 12 Apostles count time? Honestly, I feel enslaved. Hmmm. I grateful to Yahowah for helping me discover this site. The stress is too burdensome for me. OMG We have been taught in the watchtower that when we revenge, we are being presumptuous is DF not presumptuousness? Let’s look at it this way. When you commit a grievous sin, who do you offend, God or elders? Is shunning not a way of doing Yahowah’s work for him. I just learnt that JW’s don’t bury dfd people. This is heart breaking. I call this rennaissance period for any one who wishes to wake up. Jephtah’s case is an eye opener, I had to confirm that from my book of bible stories, story 53. Hmmmm.
Reply
peely says:
May 31, 2016 at 2:11 pm
Hi Abby,
Yes, we know disfellowshiped ones are considered as good as dead.
John 16:2 – “They will put you out of (meaning of Greek is “excommunicate”) the synagogue (“congregation”); in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills (“figuratively or literally”) you will think they are offering a service to God.” (to keep the congregation clean)
“They will do these things because they haven’t known the Father or Me. But I have told you these things so that when their time comes you may remember I told them to you. I didn’t tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.” John 16:3,4
“I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. You will have suffering in this world. Be courageous! I have conquered the world.” John 16:33
I always wonder why the decision to go ahead of every other bible rendition and take out the possibly spurious John 8:1-11 Leaving it in the NWT would blow a hole in the disfellowshiping doctrine. On the organization’s website, I cannot even find a reference to those scriptures.
From the symbolic book of Revelation: “He was permitted to give a spirit to the image (organization) of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed” (Rev 13:15)
Reply
Paul says:
May 28, 2016 at 4:14 am
Your professional presentation and factually is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your fine effort and tirelessness.
Reply
Paul says:
June 5, 2016 at 12:36 am
Bravo
Reply
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NEWS BULLETIN: Watchtower Releases Updated Child Abuse Directive to Elders; Lack of Adequate Policy Change Continues To Endanger Jehovah’s Witness Minors
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Posted on August 4, 2016
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In a newly released letter to all elders dated August 1st 2016, The Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses has once again revised its instructions to elders on dealing with allegations of child abuse. Unfortunately, the changes are completely inert, failing … Continue reading →
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News Bulletin: Watchtower again loses legal fight to stop UK Charity Commission Investigation
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Posted on July 25, 2016
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Regular readers will recall that the UK Charity Commission is currently undertaking a statutory investigation of Watchtower’s UK arm, which is currently registered as a UK charity, and also of the New Moston Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, also registered as … Continue reading →
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No expense spared: Governing Body members DO fly business class
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Posted on July 16, 2016
When it comes the the Governing Body's travel arrangements, only the best is good enough
Earlier today, JWsurvey was contacted by an airline employee based at a major European airport who was willing to give a remarkable insight into the lavish lifestyle of Governing Body members. Though this won’t come as a surprise to many, … Continue reading →
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The Friday Column: Outside the bubble
Posted on July 15, 2016
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Last month marked three years since I resigned as Ministerial Servant, tossed out my neck-tie and walked away from the religion I had known virtually all my life. I exited a controlling cult but in many ways, I entered a … Continue reading →
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The Worst Convention Ever – Part 5: Friday
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Posted on July 10, 2016
Part 5 of the Worst Convention Ever series shows some of the most disturbing material to-date
I don’t mind admitting it. When I decided to make a series of videos to compliment articles on JWsurvey about the “Worst Convention Ever” (the “Remain Loyal to Jehovah” 2016 regional convention) I bit off way more than I could chew. … Continue reading →
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The Friday Column: Five ways my life has changed for the better since I left my religion
Posted on July 8, 2016
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Since deciding to walk away from the Jehovah’s Witness (JW) religion last year, there have been many changes to my life. Some of these changes, like being shunned and cast aside by family and friends, have been difficult to deal with. … Continue reading →
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21st Century Christian martyrdom: Tony Morris praises JW boy who died refusing blood
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Posted on July 6, 2016
Tony Morris has been filmed at a convention praising a JW child who died refusing blood
The three-day regional conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses are given different themes from year to year. This year’s theme of “Remain Loyal to Jehovah” offers a fascinating hint of the paranoia gripping the Governing Body leadership as the internet helps an increasing outflow shed their … Continue reading →
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The Friday Column: To the newly shunned
Posted on July 1, 2016
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Like many ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses, members of my family will soon be attending the 2016 convention entitled “Remain Loyal to Jehovah.” Dubbed #worstconventionever by many in the ex-JW community, this convention features a number of videos and talks that will serve … Continue reading →
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News Bulletin: Watchtower Found in Contempt of Court – Hit with $4000 Fine Per Day Until It Complies With Court Order
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Posted on June 25, 2016
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A few months ago, we reported on yet another in a long line of legal actions brought against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society for its now infamous and heavily criticized methods of handling accusations of child abuse inside its … Continue reading →
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The Worst Convention Ever – Part 4: Propaganda Movies
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Posted on June 18, 2016
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For decades, Jehovah’s Witnesses have attended yearly multi-day assemblies, often sitting through scorching heat, fighting off sleep, attempting to take notes during an onslaught of talk after talk, all the while secretly praying for the end to come. No, not … Continue reading →
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NEWS BULLETIN: JW.ORG Asks: Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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Posted on June 11, 2016
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The FAQ section on JW.org has added a new featured post: “Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?” In this NEW article dated June 9th 2016, the Watchtower gives their official explanation of how to handle matters … Continue reading →
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The Friday Column: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Doubts
Posted on June 10, 2016
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Like myself, my wife was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and has always loved reading. When she was around 7 years old, she was reading through a science book and came across a chart detailing the evolution of the horse through … Continue reading →
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The Worst Convention Ever – Part 3: Sergei’s Story
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Posted on June 7, 2016
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“The way of the truth is the best way of living.” So begins Kingdom Song 64, “Make the Truth Your Own.” This mantra is one with which Jehovah’s Witnesses are very familiar. In fact, it’s quite common to hear the mantra … Continue reading →
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