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← If the Watchtower Discontinued Shunning
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 2) →

Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1)
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Posted on April 30, 2012

Just how “wondrous” is the expansion now taking place?

Part 1 – Is wondrous expansion now taking place?
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then your whole outlook on the bible and life itself will be defined by the teachings of the Watch Tower Society. You accept these teachings without question, because these come down to us from the “Faithful Slave Class”, as represented by the Governing Body. At your baptism, likely you answered a loud and affirmative “yes!” to the following question:

“Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?” (Organized To Do Jehovah’s Will, page 215)
If someone were to ask why, as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you believe that the Watch Tower Society is God’s spirit-directed organization, you would likely give any one of the following answers:
◾Because of the wondrous expansion of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide
◾Because only Jehovah’s Witnesses show true love for one another (John 13:35)
◾Because Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones preaching the good news worldwide (Matt 24:14)
◾Because Jesus Christ chose the early Bible Students to be his earthly congregation in 1919
It may be that you consider ALL of the above answers to be satisfactory in explaining why the Society has God’s backing. Certainly, all answers are used to varying degrees in the Society’s publications to support the idea that they enjoy Jehovah’s approval and direction. However, do these answers hold up under close scrutiny, without religious or emotional bias?
To find out, I’ve prepared a series of four articles to discuss each of these “criteria” for divine direction, of which this is the first. You are invited to examine each article, weigh the information carefully, and reach your own conclusions as to whether Jehovah’s Witnesses truly represent God’s organization on Earth today. In so doing, you will be taking to heart the words found at 2 Corinthians 13:5, where Paul says: “Keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving what you yourselves are.”
So with this in mind, let’s begin by discussing the first criterion for God’s backing of the organization, namely the seemingly ‘wondrous expansion’ being enjoyed by Jehovah’s Witnesses around the globe.
Worldwide Growth as Evidence
Without wishing to burst anyone’s bubble, the worldwide growth of Jehovah’s Witnesses between 2010 and 2011 was very low indeed, at a mere 2.4%. If you were to calculate only the growth in developed countries mentioned in the worldwide report, this figure would drop to as little as 1.2%. However, for the sake of argument, let’s focus on the official growth figure of 2.4%. When considering this statistic, you might feel inclined to proclaim: “Well that’s still growth! The numbers continue to swell to as many as 7,659,019 peak publishers in 2011!”
When compared with the Earth’s population, the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses is almost infinitesimal

Well, consider this. The population of the Earth is estimated at 7 billion. When 7.6 million publishers are considered against the backdrop of this vast and staggering number of people, they pale almost into insignificance. Simply put, little more than 0.1% of the Earth’s population are active Jehovah’s Witnesses, or 1 in every 914 people. Assuming that Jehovah will kill all those who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon (as often insinuated in the Society’s literature), this means that 99.9% of the Earth’s population are due for annihilation. That would be comparable with every human soul on Earth dying, apart from all those living in the State of Virginia (with its estimated population of approximately 8,096,604). So in that context, does last year’s growth figure of 2.4%, a net increase of 151,000 publishers, still sound so impressive?
Let’s assume that 2.4% is indicative of the future growth in the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and it never decreases or increases. Imagine the Society set an ambitious target of reaching 14 million publishers before Armageddon. It would take another 25 years for us to reach that figure, and (assuming the world’s population remained the same) Jehovah’s Witnesses would still only amount to 0.2% of the planet’s inhabitants, equivalent to the population of Guatemala, or one Jehovah’s Witness for every 500 people. Do you honestly believe that only one in every 500 people would be considered by Jesus as being a good person, worthy of salvation? Can you imagine Jesus, if he were on Earth today, stopping to talk to every 500th person, but ignoring the rest – as these are condemned to death?
Without wishing to sound disrespectful or in any way blasphemous concerning God’s purpose, let’s for a moment imagine that Jehovah decided to bring Armageddon at the point where 1% of the Earth’s population are Jehovah’s Witnesses – that’s 1 in every 100 people worldwide (still a very “narrow door”). Based on the current growth rate, we would need to wait until 2105 for this to happen – a staggering 93 years in the future! And that’s without factoring in the projected rise in the Earth’s population over that period.
Now let’s return to the current publisher figures, and imagine that Jehovah brought Armageddon tomorrow and saved a more generous number of, say, 140 million survivors (roughly the population of Bangladesh) – which is still just 2% of the Earth’s population, or 1 in every 50 people. Assuming that every single member of Jehovah’s Witnesses was included among those saved, they would still only make up 5.5% of all survivors – a tiny fraction by anyone’s standards.
I give these explanations and illustrations to highlight the fact that, as a religion, Jehovah’s Witnesses are nowhere near as significant in number as we are led to believe. Given that Jehovah’s Witnesses only make up 0.1% of the Earth’s population, it’s highly flattering that we receive any attention from the press and media at all – and often this only comes as a result of our controversial policies such as those connected with blood transfusions or the handling of child abuse cases.
2.4% may sound to some like an impressive growth statistic, but when considering the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in relation to the world’s population, and the size and scope of the global preaching work, this statistic falls woefully short of what would be considered meaningful growth for an organization of our size and aspirations.
Conversion Matches Gestation
It now takes as many hours of ministry per baptism as it takes for a baby to develop in the womb

According to the 2011 worldwide report, last year 6,487 hours were spent in field service for every baptism (1,707,094,710 hours to achieve 263,131 baptisms). That’s 270 days, or 9 months of solid field service (round the clock) to produce a baptized publisher from doorstep to baptism pool. We’re not talking about 9 months of visiting someone every week or so, we’re talking 9 months of preaching to someone all day, every day, with no sleep. In simple terms, the average speed of conversion can now barely keep pace with the speed of human gestation in the womb!
But let’s think about this in more practical terms. After all, we would be physically unable to study with somebody flat-out, 24 hours each day, for 9 months – let alone find somebody who would be willing to endure such a study regime. What about if we spent the average number of hours in ministry each month? According to the worldwide report, the average number of hours per publisher is approximately 18. If you were to spend 18 hours each month studying with just this one potential convert, on average it would take 30 years of studying to bring him or her to baptism based on the figures mentioned above. 30 years!
We might well ask ourselves: if it’s proving so very difficult and time-consuming to attract new ones to the good news and bring them to baptism, despite the great variety of publications that we have available, can this really be clear evidence that we as an organization are enjoying God’s blessing? Can the “truth” really be as simple and easy for people to grasp as we are led to believe? Consider the following words of Jesus, which convey how simple the truth should be to grasp:

“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes.” (Matthew 11:25, New World Translation)
So, when we honestly and carefully consider this first criterion for divine backing, we are forced to admit that using worldwide expansion as evidence for divine direction is an exaggeration at best, and a deception at worst. Furthermore, there is growing evidence to suggest that the Society is in decline, or at least scaling down on its operations. The impact of this is only now being felt, but if the Society continues to shrink in size (i.e. the number of branches) and printed output, then it won’t be long before a similar downturn is observed in our publisher figures. After all, the preaching work is heavily reliant on having printed publications to offer on the ministry. If it takes 9 months of 24-hour preaching to produce each new publisher, one can only imagine how many months or years it would take to achieve this goal without any literature to offer on the doorstep, or to study with interested ones!
If you are an active Jehovah’s Witness, you may have found the above information difficult to take in – but you are to be commended for being brave enough to give it careful thought. In the next article in this series, I will discuss further reasons why the Watch Tower Society’s claims of divine backing may be misleading.











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← If the Watchtower Discontinued Shunning
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 2) →

11 Responses to Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1)

 Eric Benson says:

 May 1, 2012 at 1:43 pm

Thanks I hope you got my post
 Eric
Reply
 

 Cedars says:

 May 1, 2012 at 1:48 pm

Hello Eric, thanks for commenting. Which post are you referring to?
Reply
 

 exDub says:

 May 23, 2012 at 2:13 pm

You must like numbers, lol. Great dissection of the facts & figures.
There will be many people from NATIONS (plural) who survive the Final Battle at Jerusalem, all of whom will be required thereafter to attend the Feast of Tabernacles every year in Jerusalem (see Zech. 14:1-2, 4, 16-19).
(Btw, Armageddon is merely the PLACE where the world’s armies will be GATHERED before they proceed 150 miles south to “come against Jerusalem.” Yes, literal Jerusalem in the literal Middle East, exactly as Zech. describes as occurring in “The Day of the LORD.”)
Reply
 

 exDub says:

 May 23, 2012 at 2:21 pm

PS & Tip for JWs who are taught NOT to read scripture LITERALLY & IN CONTEXT:
Armageddon >> (huge, wide open) Valley of Megiddo a/k/a Valley of Jezreel >> a literal place. Check a map of literal (modern) Israel.
Reply
 

 melly avergonzado says:

 June 21, 2012 at 8:46 pm

kimdom of hall jehovah w…?
Reply
 

 Jibrael says:

 June 23, 2012 at 7:02 pm

A few years ago, the Pew Research Forum reported two interesting facts about Witnesses: (A) they had one of the highest growth rates in America, and (B) they had far and away the worst retention rate. The majority of new JWs leave within only a couple years. How long is that sustainable?
 Also, a few years ago the number of hours it took to qualify as a “regular” publisher were drastically reduced, so how accurate are current growth numbers when compared to past years’ numbers when the qualifying hours were higher?
Reply
 

 SANTIAGO says:

 October 18, 2012 at 3:01 pm

Hola,
 Podemos hacer un ejercicio interesante comparando sus numeros con el de los mormones, por ejemplo.
 Los mormones predicaron en 2011 200 millones de horas y bautizaron 280.000 personas, lo que da un resultado de 715 horas, 9 VECES MAS eficaces que los testigos…. y con una tas de retencion mayor… interesante, no?
Reply
 

 mumqueen says:

 November 24, 2013 at 7:18 am

Well Noah preached the word for 120yrs and only him and his family survived the flood. So a lack of converts is not necessarily a lack of divine approval. And this doesn’t take into account the 100 or so each day who are disfellowshipped. So the numbers of new converts are enough to make up for the disfellowshipped and the growth. Neither does your article take into account the thousands who do leave each year. So if no-one left the JWs the growth would be quite a lot bigger. But I do see your point on how long it takes to get just one person baptised and in that case also you need to remember that many newly baptised have been born and raised as JWs.
Reply
 

 Palma says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:33 am

…perhaps Only noah and family were saved because while noah was building the arch, Satan and company were on earth killing all the righteous one’s resisting him :)
Reply
 

 Dave says:

 May 27, 2014 at 9:35 pm

Cedars,
Thanks for this – I would be interested to see what the growth figures were like for other major religions around the world – Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.
Would be good to get a comparison to see whether they are actually growing faster than the others.
Reply
 

 Henry says:

 August 5, 2014 at 8:54 pm

It is an interesting article regarding expansion. Gives one food for thought. I am curious if comparing the time frame of the JW. Organization against the same time frame during the early church how the numbers would compare. Was the expansion of the early church about as fast? Just asking. Also, I see many JW halls scattered throughout the states. They are small and very much remind me of the “rural country church” that reaches a certain growth then dies or shrinks. I also would consider the growth rate of other religions over the same period of time. Is it comparable? I look around and seem to observe that western culture has, to some degree, lost its hunger for the things of God. Perhaps this lack of interest in the “Christian” God iis a bigger issue than just the JWs. I am not a JW, and do not support their doctrine, but I believe the questions I raise may help us look at ourselves as well.
Reply
 

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← Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1)
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 3) →

Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 2)
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Posted on May 8, 2012

Love, a hallmark of true Christianity – but to what extent is it shown among Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Part 2 – Do we have genuine love among ourselves?
This article discusses love between believers, which is another identifying characteristic often cited by Watchtower publications as evidence that Jehovah’s Witnesses are unique in enjoying an exalted standing as God’s chosen organization.
The other three commonly used lines of reason, which I discuss in other articles, are:
◾The perceived wondrous expansion of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide
◾The claim that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones preaching the good news worldwide (Matt 24:14)
◾The claim that Jesus Christ chose the early Bible Students to be his earthly congregation in 1919
If (like me) you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you may feel uncomfortable in examining these topics in any great detail. You have been encouraged to accept any teachings handed down by the Governing Body as absolute truth, even though these are frequently altered and may even contradict what is contained in the Bible. It’s never easy to challenge long-held beliefs, and it can be terrifying to contemplate the possibility that some of what you have learned may be wrong. However, you are to be commended for your bravery in doing so, especially since you are following the Bible’s guidance to “keep testing whether you are in the faith” by examining your beliefs carefully to ensure these correspond with real truth. –2 Cor 13:5, John 4:24.
The love and sense of community that you feel as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not only a reason for you to justify the Society’s claims to God’s direction – it is also perhaps something that you personally cherish. However, as with many things in life, there is more than meets the eye. I would encourage you to approach the following information with an open mind, and free from any emotional bias to the extent possible. Once you’ve finished reading, you can ponder over the information, and decide for yourself whether it corresponds with your own knowledge or experiences.
Love Among Yourselves
You are likely very familiar with the following scripture, which is often used in Watchtower publications to support the idea that the Society enjoys God’s backing:

“By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” – John 13:35 (New World Translation)
I won’t deny that generally speaking Jehovah’s Witnesses, wherever they are in the world, think very highly of one another and treat each other extremely well. I used to take great pride in the notion that, if I ever found myself shipwrecked and washed up on a foreign shore, the chances are that I would be able to locate one or several of Jehovah’s Witnesses who would feed me and shelter me.
You are no doubt familiar with agape, which is a word often used in the Society’s publications. Agape is one of the Greek words rendered as “love” in the Greek scriptures, including the words of Jesus quoted above. Agape is used to denote “principled” love, or love that is governed by either positive or negative principles. So, if the love shown between Jesus’ true disciples is principled, we might well ask ourselves – what principle governs the love shown between Jehovah’s Witnesses? Is it a noble principle, or one that is negative in some way?
To illustrate, let’s consider one of Jesus’ parables – that of the “Prodigal Son” (Luke 15:11-32). No doubt you’re familiar with this parable, and you may have read it many times before. This parable reminds us of the intense love between father and son. A son squanders his inheritance by living a life of debauchery, including immoral intercourse with prostitutes. What prompts him to return to his father? The fact that he runs out of food and grows hungry! In fact, he is so hungry that he starts to yearn for the food eaten by the very pigs he looks after. He therefore resolves to return and work as one of this father’s hired laborers, who could at least be guaranteed a meal each day. The Society’s publications often imply that the son’s statement to his father on his return (i.e. “Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you…”) was a sign of his repentance. However, acknowledging that one has sinned does not necessarily make one repentant. By simply recognizing that something is wrong, you are not necessarily saying that you wouldn’t do it again given the opportunity. You are merely admitting wrongdoing.
Let’s imagine for a moment that the prodigal son is real and living today as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in your congregation, and he is summoned before a judicial committee organized by your local elders. Your elders would be guided by the following instructions in finding out whether or not he is truly repentant…

“The judicial committee should look for clear works of repentance commensurate with his wrongdoing. (2 Cor. 7:10,11) In order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.” (Shepherd the Flock of God, page 91)
The judicial committee would likely look at the factors that prompted the prodigal son to return, namely that he was hungry and wanted to eat the food reserved for this father’s hired laborers. He had also evidently run out of money, so he could no longer enjoy his life of debauchery to the same extent as he had done previously even if he wanted to. Also, he only arrived at his decision to return to his father once he had run out of food and money, and not before. The elders would take all of this into consideration, and reflect on the following guidance:

“Does he demonstrate godly sadness or worldly sadness? (2 Cor. 7:8-11) Is his sadness primarily because of hurting Jehovah and bringing Him into reproach or because of the disappointment he has caused to family and friends and the shame he has experienced?” (Shepherd the Flock of God, page 93)
Yes, the prodigal son’s pre-worded statement to his father acknowledged his sin against “heaven” (or God), but not necessarily regret for it. Moreover, it was undoubtedly so-called worldly sadness that prompted his return, since he was hungry and needed food. Consider the definition of “worldly sadness” in the Society’s literature:

“Worldly sadness mourns the unpleasant consequences of sin, but it does not mourn the sin itself and the reproach it brings on God’s name.” (Insight On The Scriptures, Volume 2, page 773)
There is no mention of the prodigal son “mourning” anything in this parable – apart from his impoverished state as a herder of swine – undoubtedly “the unpleasant consequences of sin”. This prompted his return. He acknowledged his sin against heaven and his father, but tellingly, Jesus didn’t speak of him mourning it with tears or a heartfelt confession, etc. If anything, he was only too ready to get swept along by his father into a celebratory feast! Also, rather than resolving in advance to take the necessary steps to fully restore his relationship with his family, he decided instead to abandon his former position as a son, and request employment as an outsider.
What does the parable of the prodigal son teach us about shunning teenagers?

When the parable is carefully analyzed, it’s difficult to paint a picture of a contrite man overcome with guilt without making up elements of the story that simply haven’t been included. Perhaps Jesus omitted these details deliberately, and therein lies the lesson. Perhaps we are meant to take from this parable that the details of any wrongdoing are superfluous when a close family bond, such as the relationship between a father and his son, is at stake. By comparison, in the absense of further information, a modern body of elders guided by current instruction by the Governing Body would have little choice but to disfellowship the prodigal son based on his actions. They would urge his father to shun him, and he would be sent away to get by on his own devices.
If we contrast the way the prodigal son is dealt with in our hypothetical disfellowshipping scenario with the way his father responds to his return in the parable itself, the contrast could not be more striking. According to the scripture, “while he was yet a long way off, his father caught sight of him and was moved with pity, and he ran and fell upon his neck and tenderly kissed him.”
There was no concern in his father’s mind about observing judicial protocol. He didn’t send one of his servants to enquire as to whether his son was repentant before allowing him to venture closer towards the house. All the father could think about was that his son was alive and back with him, safe and sound. Dwelling on any wrongdoing that he had engaged in while he was away could wait until another day. The important thing was that they were reunited as a family. The father therefore put on a feast and celebrated his son’s safe return, much to the chagrin of the prodigal son’s brother, who approached things from a more cold and judicial perspective – refusing to welcome him so enthusiastically.
My point in going over this parable is to highlight how much the Society’s idea of love differs from what real love should be, particularly when it comes to family relationships. No child deserves to be disowned by his or her parents, and no parent should feel compelled to disown his or her child. However, this is exactly what the Society repeatedly advises should happen whenever a teenager who is old enough to leave home is disfellowshipped as a wrongdoer.
Despite the Society’s insistence, nowhere in the bible is disfellowshipping (or “shunning”) recommended between family members. Rather, the practice of shunning is recommended as a measure for keeping the congregation clean, by avoiding association with a person you might otherwise consider sharing a meal with. (1 Cor. 5:11,13) Even so, quite astonishingly, the Society expands the scope of this principle to include family members as well, and goes to great lengths to dissuade parents from having any meaningful contact with any wayward children who may find themselves disfellowshipped by a judicial committee. The Watchtower recently went as far as to suggest that rebellious youths are deserving of being struck down by Jehovah! Consider the following guidance from a recent article, and try to keep Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son in mind when reading:

“Suppose, for example, that the only son of an exemplary Christian couple leaves the truth. Preferring ‘the temporary enjoyment of sin’ to a personal relationship with Jehovah and with his godly parents, the young man is disfellowshipped.” – Heb 11:25 (The Watchtower 2011 7/15 page 31)
The article goes on to claim that shunning is applicable even to such a family member (hanging its reasoning on a clever over-emphasis of the word “anyone” in 1 Cor. 5:11,13) before saying:

“Moses’ brother, Aaron, faced a difficult situation with regard to two of his sons. Think of how he must have felt when his sons Nadab and Abihu offered illegitimate fire to Jehovah and He struck them dead. Of course, that ended any association those men could have had with their parents. But there is more. Jehovah instructed Aaron and his faithful sons: ‘Do not let your heads go ungroomed, and you must not tear your garments [in mourning], that you may not die and that [Jehovah] may not become indignant against all the assembly.’ (Lev. 10:1-6) The message is clear. Our love for Jehovah must be stronger than our love for unfaithful family members.” (The Watchtower 2011 7/15 page 31)
No, the message is not clear! I was astonished and deeply saddened when I read the above words in a magazine that I had learned to respect over the years for its reasonableness. Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abihu, were serving as official priests on behalf of the nation of Israel when they offered illegitimate fire on behalf of Jehovah, who decided to punish them with death for doing so. To suggest that a youth getting disfellowshipped for wrongdoing is tantamount to adult priests misrepresenting an entire nation in an illegitimate sacrificial ritual is frankly preposterous and deeply inappropriate. It’s a highly flawed analogy on every level.
Nadab and Abihu – two priests who were struck dead by God were likened to disfellowshipped teenagers in a recent Watchtower article

For one thing, as grown men, Nadab and Abihu cannot be likened to wayward teenagers simply because they happened to be ‘sons of Aaron’ any more than Hitler can be likened to a teenager because he too had a father! Any man can be described as a “son”, but that does not make him a teenager, with all the inexperience and reckless behavior that adolescence brings. The article itself acknowledges that Nadab and Abihu were “men” at the time of the incident. In creating a tenuous link between these full grown errant priests and shunned teenagers, the Society implies that God would be fully justified in striking down any disfellowshipped youths, or at least insists that their parents should treat them as though they have been divinely executed.
The paragraph even goes so far as to highlight the fact that Aaron and his family were instructed not to mourn the execution of their sons, using this to drive home the Society’s message that feelings for delinquent sons or daughters are to be suppressed or abandoned entirely. Parents are to purge themselves of emotion, and become like the fictional Vulcans in Star Trek episodes!
If we were to compare this shocking approach with Jesus’ simple but profound parable of the prodigal son, the difference could not be more strikingly apparent. Jesus highlighted the love between father and son (or daughter), and reminded us that NOTHING should come between this deep bond – not even immorality. In stark contrast, the Society teaches that if a teenage Witness commits immorality for which he is disfellowshipped, then he is to be disowned by his parents and treated as dead or “struck down” by God. Which, to you, sounds like the more loving approach – that of Jesus, or that of the Society? Do you believe that by encouraging the abandonment of thousands of disfellowshipped teenagers the Society gives evidence of love being shown on their part?
Yes, there are standards and principles contained in the bible, and I’m not suggesting that these shouldn’t be upheld by believers. However, the over-riding principle governing all laws in the Bible is that of love, both for God and fellow man. (Matt 22:37-40) Jesus recognized that there are often grey areas when it comes to the precise ways in which laws are applied, and this was a source of much contention with the Jewish religious leaders. The Pharisees were apparently devoid of love, and would observe laws to ludicrous degrees, even to the detriment of human well-being. (Matt 12:9-12) Jesus powerfully rebuked this philosophy when he said: “Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matt 9:13)
The Governing Body have long had the opportunity to apply the principle of shunning in a more merciful way – a way that would not adversely affect family relationships, which are crucial to one’s mental and emotional well-being. For whatever reason, they have chosen to enforce the less-loving, less-merciful stance of insisting that even family members should shun one another, even though this is specified nowhere in the scriptures. I firmly believe that this decision represents an astounding lack of love on the part of the Society, and its damaging effects continue to reverberate around the world among many disfellowshipped ones who are unfairly starved of any meaningful contact with their families. We do well to ask ourselves, how does this demonstrate the love described by Jesus in John 13:35? What motivates the Society to show “love” in this way? Are their policies motivated by a genuine concern for fallen sheep, or are they purely to raise a firewall that will shield them from criticism by former members?
Christian Neutrality – Unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Having considered the clear lack of love in the way the principle of shunning is enforced by Jehovah’s Witnesses, we do well to scrutinize other aspects of our beliefs. For example, you may be of the opinion that there is evidence of worldwide love between Jehovah’s Witnesses purely by virtue of the fact that as a global brotherhood we refuse to go to war – thus avoiding a potential scenario where one Jehovah’s Witness kills another on the battlefield. You might insist that no other religion has such a strong stance when it comes to “beating swords into ploughshares”, and that this alone constitutes a fulfillment of Jesus’ words. However, would this viewpoint be entirely based on fact?
Charles Taze Russell had close ties with the Second-day Adventist Church when he was first developing his religious views. You may remember a scene in one of the Society’s recent DVDs where Russell is portrayed as attending an Adventist meeting, which re-ignites his interest in the bible – leading to his forming the early Bible Students movement. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is still in existence to this day. In fact, it boasts more baptized members than Jehovah’s Witnesses – over 16 million baptized followers with missionaries in at least 200 countries! And guess what? The members do not believe in going to war with one another. Consider the following statement, found on the Adventists’ official website:

“It is therefore right and proper for Christians to promote peace. The Seventh-day Adventist Church urges every nation to ‘beat its swords into plowshares’ and its ‘spears into pruninghooks’ (Isa. 2:4). The church’s Bible-based Fundamental Belief No. 7 states that men and women were ‘created for the glory of God’ and were ‘called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment,’ not to destroy or hurt one another. Christ Himself said, ‘Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God’ (Matt. 5:9)” – Statement on Peace, released by the General Conference president, Neal C. Wilson
This sounds to me like a religion that also believes in abstaining from warfare! The only difference is, Adventists are a much larger religion than Jehovah’s Witnesses, and therefore their anti-war stance is more keenly felt around the world. According to the website Adherents.com, as of May 2007, Adventists represented the twelfth largest religious body in the world. Interestingly, unlike Jehovah’s Witnesses, Second Day Adventists do not promote shunning. As a professed Christian religion, they are far from alone in this regard.
I’m not suggesting that readers of this website should all run off and become Second Day Adventists, far from it. I merely draw attention to this religion as an example of just one faith, much larger than Jehovah’s Witnesses, that does not advocate war. If you were to compare the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses with other religions professing to follow Christianity, you would find far more similarities than you might expect. Included among these similarities is a common tendency for love to be shown between members. When you think about it, this is only to be expected. Any religion will find it in its own interests to actively promote love rather than discord between members, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are just one of many faiths to do so. Unfortunately, as previously discussed, this so-called “love” is tainted by shocking neglect whenever family members leave the faith for whatever reason, which is not a practice supported by scripture – or indeed by all other Christian denominations. When considering the above, can it really be said that Jehovah’s Witnesses are unique in showing love for one another? Is their “love” (or agape) based solely on righteous principles, or is it conditional on sharing commonly held beliefs?
Racial Equality – A Hallmark of Love?
Undeniably, Witness conventions have become excellent showcases for inter-racial harmony. The Society is to be commended for encouraging such harmony and equality among brothers of different races. However, few realize that the Watch Tower Society hasn’t always been at the forefront of urging racial equality in its literature.
If you were to examine the Society’s past writings, you would note that Watchtower publications under both Russell and Rutherford’s presidencies made discriminatory expressions that would cause shock and outrage if they were re-printed today. Such magazine articles hailed the “greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian”, or white man. Black people were described as the product of Noah’s curse on Canaan, and as being a “race of servants”. The book Uncle Tom’s Cabin was slammed as being “the work of Satan” in the Golden Age magazine. Early publications from Russell’s era even insinuated that, when mankind is brought to perfection, God will change the skin of an “Ethiopian” from black to white.
As shocking as the above quotes are, it doesn’t seem practical to reproduce them in their entirety in this article, so I have listed these as comprehensively as possible in another article entitled “A Brief History of Racism in Watchtower Publications”. I would encourage you to take the time to review this information separately and check the quotes if you find my above assertions hard to believe.
Though the subject of racism is awkward and uncomfortable for some, I raise this issue only in an attempt to bring a degree of perspective to our traditional view of the organization as some great vanguard of racial equality in the modern era. Yes, progress has undoubtedly been made since the narrow-minded and bigoted views of a previous generation were allowed to find expression in the Society’s literature. However, we are not talking about just any organization, we are talking about God’s organization, which his son Jesus Christ supposedly chose in 1919! We are therefore fully justified in scrutinizing our organization’s early beginnings and seeing whether or not they could conceivably have been chosen by Christ based on what they were teaching back then. Certainly when it comes to racial equality, the record of the Watch Tower Society is just as tarnished as many other faiths of its longevity.
A Love Based On Great Expectations
You may find it difficult to cope with the notion that Jehovah’s Witnesses are not as unique as you were once led to believe when it comes to showing love. Certainly, the extent to which you receive love from fellow Witnesses very much depends on your individual circumstances, and how much time and energy you are prepared to put forth in pursuit of ‘kingdom interests’. If you are recognized as someone who works hard within your congregation, or you are perhaps a newly interested one attending meetings for the first time, then no doubt you will be showered with expressions of love and kindness whenever you set foot in your local kingdom hall! This is an extremely comforting and reassuring experience – to receive the approval of your colleagues. It’s only natural for we humans to yearn for acceptance, and flourish whenever we receive it.
However, it takes surprisingly little time for this façade of affection to wither and fade. For example, imagine what would happen if you were to stop attending meetings for just a few weeks. I can assure you (having gone through this experience myself) that the text messages would soon stop, the phone would stop ringing, and your email inbox would grow increasingly empty. This is because, as painful as it may be to accept, the love you are shown by the brothers in your local congregation is conditional. This means the brothers will only show you love if you satisfy certain expectations that they have of you, namely to be regular at meetings and in field service. If you were to stop doing those activities, even for a relatively short while, then you would no longer meet the expectations of your fellow brothers, and you would notice a sharp decline in the amount of affection you are shown next time you meet a member of your congregation in the street. This is perhaps something you would need to experience for yourself in order to believe that it is possible for your brothers to drop you so ruthlessly when you consider them to be your friends, but please take my word – this is exactly what would happen.
When we also remind ourselves of our earlier consideration of shunning, and how this is so brutally enforced among Jehovah’s Witnesses (even between family members), we would have to conclude that, on closer examination, the love between members of our faith is nothing more than a highly polished veneer. It only takes a fairly simple series of developments, such as a moment of indiscretion, discovering that it isn’t “the truth” after all, or otherwise ceasing to attend meetings or ministry arrangements, and look! Suddenly the love dries up.
I’m personally confident that Jesus would never have intended such a narrow interpretation of love when he mentioned it as a hallmark of his true followers. However, each one must reach his or her own conclusions based on what they know to be true. Hopefully, even if you don’t agree with my assertions, this article will at least have prompted you to look at the organization as how it truly is rather than what it purports to be.
In my next article I will discuss the idea that the preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses sets us apart as God’s chosen people. If this is a subject that interests you personally, then you are warmly invited to consider the information I present.





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← Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1)
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 3) →

10 Responses to Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 2)

 Jibrael says:

 June 23, 2012 at 7:00 pm

I can also testify to how conditional love of the Witnesses can be. I am now a member of the Unitarian Universalist Association, where we not only completley reject war, but strive to love one another as a “beloved community,” with membership open to not only all races, but also all sexual orientations and all religions. That’s right: the love that’s shown to me doesn’t care if my religous beliefs are different from other members.
 Like you said, Cedars, its not that everyone should run off and join my particular congregation, but its also a reminder that rejecting war and loving other aren’t limited to JWs, and, in many cases, JWs could learn a lot from just how far others are willing to go in trying to live out Christ’s love.
Reply
 

 Naima says:

 September 17, 2012 at 12:28 am

Excellent article and very true.
 It’s true that the love is conditional..
 I experienced it when I tried to get a JW study with my D’fed sister’s children, with her consent,I even asked an elder for help, and noone was willing to help them, although the children enjoyed going for meetings..It’s as if the punishment is extended to the children. ..the innocent children don’t even have friends in the cong. noone talks to them. ..of course the brothers would say that it’s their Mother who put them in the situation by getting disfellowshipped..
 There is no genuine love.
 In my culture ,family ties are strong and I know many JWs ,including myself, who do not shun D’fed family members,they’re just careful not to flaunt it.
Reply
 

 Julia Orwell says:

 January 26, 2013 at 1:22 am

My crippled friend who can hardly leave her house or look after her two teenage boys gets more help from ‘worldly’ people than from the brothers, even though some of them live in the same complex as her! Yeah, she made a mistake and married an unbeliever, who then beat her senseless and now she’s divorced, in a wheelchair, and trying to raise her kids.
Reply
 

 Abey says:

 April 3, 2013 at 9:50 pm

Yes but as Ceda said it is only ONE mark of true christianity. There is other marks that other religions do not meet.
Reply
 

 catmuug says:

 May 21, 2013 at 9:50 am

Je regrette de ne pas parler anglais car la traduction automatique n’est pas très bonne. J’apprècie beaucoup ce site. Je retrouve exactement mes analyses personnelles et je me rend compte que beaucoup de frères et soeurs réfléchissent. Cela me réconforte
 beaucoup. J’ai connu dans les années 50, 60,70 des frères et soeurs qui se coupaient en quatre pour rendre service. Il y avaient une ambiance d’amour formidable pourtant pas beaucoup d’argent, après la guerre. La façon autoritaire et inhumaine dont l’organisation mène ses troupes depuis les années 80 n’insite pas à amener de nouveaux adeptes. Ce serait leur faire un sale coup.
 Merci Cedar.
English Translation (per Google Translate)
 I’m sorry I do not speak English as the automatic translation is not very good. I really appreciate this site. I just found my own analysis and I realize that many brothers and sisters think. It comforts me
 much. I knew in the 50s, 60,70 brothers and sisters who are cut out to make service. He had a wonderful atmosphere of love yet not a lot of money after the war. The authoritarian and inhumane whose organization conducts its troops from the 80s so not insite to bring new followers. This would give them a dirty trick.
 Cedar thank you.
Reply
 

 Arno says:

 July 21, 2013 at 3:28 pm

I’m systematically reading through all these blog-posts since early this evening (GMT+2) and find myself ever so often nodding emphatically in agreement as well as wanting to comment every now and then; but just continue reading in amazement.
I just have to pause and thank you for the way you’ve presented the subject matter in this article, Cedars. How wonderful if only the Governing Body will take time to *read* this.
I sincerely hope that many more active as well as ex JW’s will find their way here to jwsurvey.org
How wonderful to be able to share in a *voice of reason* :)
Reply
 

 mumqueen says:

 November 24, 2013 at 7:38 am

Yes, as one of your other article states it’s only the “beautiful” ones in the congs who get shown any love. At our KH once there was no public talk because all the elders had gone off in their clique to the wedding of one of their sons. So the rest of the cong. had to miss out on spiritual food. And many a time I saw brothers in the street who, when they spied me, turned and walked the other way rather than say hello. My sin? Not getting to all the meetings and being related by law to a paedophile, who incidentally, counted my own children amongst his victims when he was an elder. In fact he wasn’t appointed to that by holy spirit because he was doing this to them when he was appointed. So much for God’s spirit guiding the congregation.
Reply
 

 ian matthews says:

 April 7, 2014 at 12:05 am

I was baptised in 1986 and was a fully functioning and productive publisher until 2004 when I became seriously ill and was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Shortly after my diagnosis I was visited by two elders who counselled me for sudden poor meeting attendance and implied that my illness was a result of demon activity. In the ten years since I have never criticised the witnesses, either personally or doctrinally, yet in ten years I have had no contact with any member of the organisation. I cannot attend meetings due to my illness, and it seems that your warning is true: because of non productivity I am no longer worthy of their ‘love’. When I became a witness in the early 80s I dropped all of my non witness friends. I refrained from associating with work colleagues and I even distanced myself from my parents and sisters. As a result, when I stopped attending the meetings I had no friends whatsoever. It has taken 10 years to make new friends, including most of my family. My elder sister however is still bitter about my shunning her, but I keep trying to win her back. My new friends’ love is not conditional. They love me despite my shortcomings and I believe am a better person now. I don’t feel it necessary to be so certain about faith. I have learned that an element of doubt is healthy and it leads to tolerance, forgiveness and not This was peace.
Reply
 

 Henry says:

 August 6, 2014 at 8:59 am

Godly love is a wondrous thing. And when received is amazing because it is unconditional. Not to equate love with salvation, even when in sin “God so loved”. I have had first hand account of the conditional love from JW. Shunning is so ingrained that I believe many stay with the JW out of fear of shunning, not because the doctrine is believed. I know personally someone who suffered dissociated amnesia due to the emotional trauma of being shunned by life time friends as well as their children. If this was what is supposed to be done, then I would ask why Peter was never shunned. Love is powerful. To withhold love from anyone is a sin. God told us to love our enemies. Love does not mean acquiesce to their ways but love them despite.
Reply
 

 Paul says:

 June 12, 2015 at 12:51 am

I can vouch for the conditional love shown by fellow members. I recently started doing research after being concerned about the changes in “understanding” around 1914, the generations and the Governing Body. I did several months of in depth study, and as a result came to the decision that I had been mislead for the past 48 years!
 I mentioned my concerns to my closest friend, we are both past elders and he had expressed doubts as to the overlapping generations to me. To my surprise he totally turned on me and accused me of being apostate. I offered to show him from only the Bible and WT publications. The result? He refused to look at any “proof” that I had, told us that they would no longer associate with us, despite having been close friends for over 40 years. It is as if we never existed, never spent holidays together etc. I was appalled at the immediate switch from love to hate.
Reply
 

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← Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 2)
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 4) →

Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 3)
avatar
Posted on May 14, 2012

As Jehovah’s Witnesses we are known for our preaching work – but just how global is it?

Part 3 – Are we preaching in all the inhabited earth?
In a series of articles, I am scrutinizing the claim often made in Watchtower literature that Jehovah’s Witnesses are alone in representing God’s chosen people, and that the Watch Tower Society (in particular, its Governing Body) represents God’s sole channel for communicating with mankind.
There are four commonly used lines of reasoning for arriving at the above conclusion. These are as follows:
◾The perceived wondrous expansion of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide
◾The love that Jehovah’s Witnesses have among themselves (John 13:35)
◾The claim that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones preaching the good news worldwide (Matt 24:14)
◾The claim that Jesus Christ chose the early Bible Students to be his earthly congregation in 1919
If you are interested in this subject, and perhaps wonder yourself whether or not the claims made in the Society’s literature are true regarding the uniqueness of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then I would urge you to carefully consider my articles that deal with each of the above arguments. In doing so, you are closely testing the foundation of your faith.
If what I have to say on each subject is untrue, then this should be clearly evident. If, however, what I say makes sense and my articles cause you to examine your beliefs more closely, then you will have taken another step towards discovering the real truth, however unexpected or shocking it may prove to be. Regardless, please be assured that I understand your internal dilemma, and I hope that you will find the following information helpful.
“A witness to all the nations”
In speaking to his disciples on the Mount of Olives, Jesus answered certain questions regarding events that would lead to the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, and (on a broader scale) the Jewish system of things. One indicator of these ominous events was provided in the following prediction from Jesus:

“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14 – New World Translation)
Jesus reaffirmed this idea of an “earth wide” preaching campaign when he spoke to his disciples again following his resurrection, saying:

“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matthew 28:19,20 – New World Translation)
As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we use these two scriptures frequently to explain and promote the urgency of our preaching activity. We also assume that the above words spoken by Jesus had a dual fulfilment – firstly in the First Century A.D., followed by a grander fulfilment in the modern era. Assuming this interpretation is correct, Jesus’ true disciples may be identified by their preaching to (and conversion of) people of “all the nations” of the “inhabited earth”. This prompts the following three questions:
◾Are Jehovah’s Witnesses preaching “in all the inhabited earth”?
◾Are Jehovah’s Witnesses making “disciples of people of all the nations”?
◾If they are doing the above, are they the only ones doing it?
I will tackle each of these questions in turn, and explore the answers from an honest and factual perspective. It is then entirely down to you to decide whether the information I provide is accurate, and/or whether it has any bearing on the claims made in the Society’s publications.
To help explain my arguments more clearly, I have prepared the following video presentation. The video has been made to illustrate some of the points that are subsequently made in this article. If you have a spare 12 minutes, I hope you will find it interesting…


For a newer version of the above video based on 2013 figures, click here.

In all the inhabited earth?
Needless to say, the “inhabited earth” is a very big place. Our planet has a population of over 7 billion men, women and children spread across nearly 200 countries. It seems highly unlikely that any worldwide preaching campaign, no matter how well-organized, could ever reach all of these people individually. However, to the God of the universe, “all things are possible”! (Matt 19:25) So, when it comes to the preaching work, we might reasonably expect a strong presence by Jehovah’s Witnesses as God’s chosen people in each and every country. Is this what we find?
Each year the Society prints a worldwide report in our Yearbook. The worldwide report for 2011 may be found on pages 44 to 55 of the 2012 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses (a download is available here). The report lists the publisher figures from 206 “lands” (including islands and territories), as well as a further 30 “Other Lands” at the bottom of the list. We might well ask, what are these “Other Lands” to which the annual report refers?
Put simply, these “Other Lands” are countries where the preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses is under governmental ban, or where Jehovah’s Witnesses are openly persecuted. The Watch Tower Society never mentions the names of these countries in the report, because it doesn’t want to officially recognize that its representatives are active in these countries despite the work being prohibited or opposed. It is therefore difficult to say definitively which countries are encompassed by this figure. However, it is relatively straightforward to find out which countries the Society is NOT active in merely by seeing which countries are missing from the list. When we do this, we realise that there are in fact 33 lands (not just 30) of noteable size that are missing from the worldwide report. These countries are as follows:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bhutan, Brunei, China, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, North Korea, Kuwait, Laos, Libya, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Syria, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Western Sahara and Yemen.
The above countries, the majority of which are under Islamic or communist governments, represent a considerable portion of the earth’s population. Based on my calculations, over 1.9 billion people live in the above list of countries – a staggering 27% of the Earth’s population! When joined together, the total landmass of these countries is an eye-watering 9.8 million square miles. You could comfortably fit North America into a land mass of that size. A world map showing these countries “under ban” (highlighted in red) is included below:
In case you are interested, the lands highlighted in orange are those countries included on the worldwide report with almost impossibly low publisher figures in comparison with the population. For example, in Bangladesh last year there was an average of 1 publisher to 1,062,086 citizens of that country (984,715 if you use the figure for peak publishers to produce the ratio, as the Society does). So next time you visit Bangladesh, your chances of meeting one of Jehovah’s Witnesses are 1 in a million!
The lands highlighted in yellow show slightly more publishers per population than those in orange, between 0.01 and 0.05%. It is interesting to note that all countries either under ban or with fewer publishers-to-population are grouped together and mostly straddling the equator. It is also interesting that most of Europe and all of the Americas are untouched by this huge hole in publisher numbers.
Just how bad is it?
Let’s return for a moment to those lands under ban (in red) which occupy such a considerable swathe of the Earth’s land surface (17% if you’re interested). We might well ask – what impact are Jehovah’s Witnesses having in these countries? Well, the 2012 Yearbook informs us that there was a peak of only 26,272 publishers spread across 30 of these “Other Lands” last year. That’s 0.0014% of the total population of these countries under ban, or (put in simpler terms) one Jehovah’s Witness for every 72,207 people in this part of the world! Think about that number for a moment. Only a few of the world’s larger sports stadiums could seat more than 70,000 people – and we are talking about one person, sitting in such a vast crowd, being representative of the collective number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in these “Other Lands”!
The JW-to-population ratio in banned countries can be likened to one person in a packed stadium of over 70,000 people

True, the worldwide report indicates that the number is increasing. Last year saw a 12.7% increase in average publisher numbers for these countries combined. However, when we consider how few people are represented by this percentage (an increase of 2,762 over the average publisher figures for the year before), we find the growth statistic disappointing to say the least. Last year there was a greater increase in the number of average publishers in Peru (3,182) than there was across all of the 30 “Other Lands” combined. Put simply, the lower the existing number of publishers, the less impressive the growth percentage is. For example, the Falkland Islands managed an astounding 100% increase last year when the number of publishers for those islands skyrocketed from… 5 to 10! It almost doesn’t matter.
You see, everything is relative. Yes, the number of publishers increased last year in the “Other Lands”, but considering there were so few publishers to begin with, it looks like Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to be an “endangered species” in those countries for the foreseeable future. Imagine our lonely JW sports fan in the stadium full of 72,207 people. He manages to increase his size by 12.7% in a year, maybe by eating a few too many cheeseburgers. In the greater scheme of things, compared with the heaving masses of people seated around him on all sides and rows of the stadium, his growth is almost inconsequential.
“People of all the nations”
This brings us back to the issue of a worldwide preaching campaign. Can it truly be said that we are “making disciples of people of all the nations”? Ask yourself honestly: how can we really be preaching the kingdom message in “all the inhabited Earth” when Jehovah’s Witnesses are virtually non-existent (only 1 in 72,207) in a list of countries comprising 27% of the Earth’s population?
If our preaching work has God’s backing, why are Jehovah’s Witnesses virtually unheard of in many asian and middle eastern lands?

Try looking at this in another way. Just imagine next time you go out in field service only knocking on 3 out of every 4 doors. So you knock on three doors in succession, and miss the fourth door out – not even writing it down as a “not at home”. As far as you’re concerned, the householder doesn’t exist. That is essentially what is happening on a global scale. Jehovah’s Witnesses only make up 0.1% of the Earth’s population, but we at least have a reasonably well-organized preaching campaign in 206 lands of the world. However, an additional 30 lands (in which we are almost absent) happen to make up 27% of the world’s population! Such a huge amount of people cannot easily be ignored.
If Armageddon came tomorrow, the vast majority of 1.9 billion people in these countries would not even know who Jehovah’s Witnesses are, never mind what our message is. Remember, in these countries it is almost impossible to engage in the preaching work without being arrested or perhaps even killed. When you think about it that way, can you honestly say that we are preaching the good news “in all the inhabited earth”? At best, we are preaching the good news in less than three quarters of the inhabited earth, and even then, only to the extent possible. Even in some countries where the work is not under ban, Jehovah’s Witnesses are so few in number that some congregations simply cannot visit every home in their territory, even on a yearly basis. The congregation of which I am currently a member is a good example of this. If your congregation is mostly rural and covers a large geographical territory, then you will likely know what I mean.
Am I being unfair in pointing out the shortcomings of our worldwide preaching campaign? To an extent, yes I am. After all, it takes a tremendous amount of dedication and organization to conduct a preaching campaign in the 206 lands that are named in the worldwide report. However, we should not fall into the trap of viewing this issue from human standards. According to the Society, this is God’s final preaching campaign, with billions of lives in the balance. Evidently, your chances of learning the “good news” of God’s kingdom depend greatly on what part of the world you live in, or (more precisely) whether your government is democratic or authoritarian. Next time you find yourself marvelling at the figures in the worldwide report, ask yourself the following questions:
◾If Armageddon came tomorrow, how many people in the world would know about us?
◾Is Jehovah only interested in those living in countries that are not ruled by Islamic or communist governments?
◾If Jehovah were truly blessing our work, would he not make sure that the organization experiences more growth in these kinds of countries regardless of the political climate?
◾If the people in these “other lands” are to be judged by Jehovah regardless of whether or not they have been preached to by Jehovah’s Witnesses, then why does Jehovah want us to preach in the lands that aren’t under ban as a matter of life or death? Why the double standard?
◾How can it be said that we are preaching in “all the inhabited Earth” if over a quarter of the planet’s population cannot hear our message?
 Are we the only ones doing it?
As Jehovah’s Witnesses we are well-known for our public preaching work. In fact, apart from the issue of blood transfusions and media allegations of tolerating child abuse, the preaching work is possibly the only thing we are known for as a religion. We have developed a reputation for our tireless dedication to our ministry. However, we might well ask ourselves, are we the only ones preaching?
Think about this for a moment, what is preaching? My Oxford dictionary defines it as follows:

Preach – deliver a sermon; expound (the Gospel, etc.); speak in favour of, advocate.
The Society has this to say when quoting from A Greek-English Lexicon, by H. Liddell and R. Scott:

The Greek ke·rys′so, which is commonly rendered “preach,” means, basically, ‘make proclamation as a herald, to be a herald, officiate as herald, proclaim (as conqueror).’ The related noun is ke′ryx and means ‘herald, public messenger, envoy, crier (who made proclamation and kept order in assemblies, etc.).’ Another related noun is ke′ryg·ma, which means ‘that which is cried by a herald, proclamation, announcement (of victory in games), mandate, summons.’ (Insight On The Scriptures, Volume Two, page 671)
“Mormonism” is just one of many religions that expands through preaching its beliefs

So essentially, if you preach, you tell others about something. You proclaim it, expound it, and speak favourably of it. Can this only be done by going from house to house? Of course not. Preaching can be done in a variety of scenarios. It is for this reason that there are so many Christian denominations spread around the globe, many of which dwarf Jehovah’s Witnesses in size. Some, like the Mormons (numbering over 14 million), preach from house to house. Others preach in their own unique ways, by using films, media or the internet to get their message across.
Regardless of how they do it, whether the believer is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist, they are all preaching. The evidence of their success is all around us. My friend Paul Grundy put it simply when he wrote: “All religions preach in some form. Otherwise they would not have any members.” In fact Paul has written an excellent article entitled “Are Jehovah’s Witnesses the only ones that preach?” – I would encourage you to read it with an open mind.
“What is truth?”
You may say “but those other religions aren’t preaching the truth from the bible!” I reply, as did Pilate: “What is truth?” (John 18:38) From a Mormon perspective, they are the only ones preaching the truth about God’s purpose for mankind. From our perspective, we are preaching the truth, and they are not. Who is right? Whether we have grown up as Jehovah’s Witnesses or have been associated with the organization for many years, does this automatically mean that we are the only ones preaching the good news and nobody else? Might a Mormon be tempted to reason along similar lines regarding his faith, based solely on what he knows? How would he discover otherwise without undertaking an honest and thorough examination of his beliefs?
Ultimately, the truth about the bible must be determined on an individual basis. Yes, if a Mormon were to closely scrutinize his beliefs against the scriptures, he would likely find that not all of them are based on Jesus’ teachings. But ask yourself honestly, what is your message when you go preaching from door to door? Are you preaching God’s word, or are you distributing literature? Are you telling people to follow Christ as their mediator, or are you encouraging them to join an organization that takes its orders from a group of men? What are we known for when we go on the ministry – for urging people to follow Christ, or for talking about Jehovah, the “organization” and life in a paradise on Earth? If you were to examine your beliefs closely, you may well make some shocking discoveries, but I would urge you to do so from an honest and open-minded perspective. (2 Cor 13:5) You might be surprised at just how little your faith has to do with facts and logic, or even Christ’s teachings for that matter.
In summary
Hopefully this article has at least provided you with some food for thought on this subject. I certainly hope you have found none of what I have said too shocking, and I apologize if this is the case. Perhaps you still believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones preaching the good news in “all the inhabited earth” and making disciples in “all the nations”. On the other hand, perhaps you agree that, even if we are preaching the good news, we certainly aren’t reaching the whole world – not by a long stretch.
The small statistic that you so often glance over when reading the worldwide report actually represents more than a quarter of the world’s population, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are almost non-existent in these “30 Other Lands”. It’s therefore unreasonable and frankly arrogant for us to suggest that we are reaching everyone, when we are in fact just scratching the surface of a very large planet.
In my final article, I will look at the main reason given by the Society to explain why it enjoys God’s sole approval – the selection by Christ in 1919. I hope you will find this article both interesting and enlightening. In the meantime, I would like to thank you for following this discussion thus far, and I commend you for your bravery in doing so.





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← Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 2)
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 4) →

18 Responses to Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 3)

 Genesis Matthew says:

 October 22, 2012 at 7:02 am

why did the apostle say that the good has reach all creation under heaven when some parts have not had access to the good news? Cedars, u are simply a jealous of the increase of JW’s. note that they are preaching in more than 230 lands. that have never said that they are preaching in all the countries of the world. make practical use of sound reasoning please
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 Unhappy & upset Witness says:

 October 22, 2012 at 7:52 am

I don’t know if anyone has been following this story out of Gresham Oregon but its very disturbing because the creep that murdered this young woman was a fellow Jehovah’s Witness
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Report-Holt-Heichel-were-members-of-same-church-175169201.html
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 KtotheRAD (Konrad) says:

 October 22, 2012 at 11:30 am

Jehovah’s Witnesses love to try to paint a pretty picture with…pretty pictures and words like “Spiritual Paradise” which is not even in the Bible, but the reality is for many painful criminal abuse, deprivation and loss, ostracism, slander and sanctioned Rights violations, loss of property and homelessness after repeated ritual disciplining and so much more for only being sick and weak or an undesirable person in their eyes…this is widely a systemic pattern and issue well known to the Society…
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 Vadir says:

 October 26, 2012 at 1:45 am

Also consider this: birth rate on earth is approx 330,000 a day or 120 million a year. Number of JW baptims: less than 300,000 annually. Imagine the gap: 300,000 vs 120,000,000. 120,000,000 of whom the majority btw is born in countries where JW’s are almost non-existent. This very fact undeniably proves the proselytizing really is a lost deal. Was a mind opener for me (before I even started looking for ‘apostate’ info on the web).
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 Julia Orwell says:

 January 26, 2013 at 12:46 am

You don’t have to say anything that’s not true to make your point! You are systematising ideas I’ve held for a while now, so thanks for having the courage to make this site.
I believe most of Jehovah’s Witnesses are the most wonderful people and sincerely try to live by Jesus and Jehovah, and this is why I’ve been one for so long, out of a desire to serve God and Jesus. However, I’ve had some doubts about the FDS these last few years, and now they are coming to fruition with my own personal Bible study when I see the GB has some ideas that don’t fit right with what I’m learning in the Bible.
I love God and I love Jesus, and want to do the right thing by them!
You my brother, may be dfd eventually for exposing less-than-favourable facts but your courage may enable people to serve God and Jesus the way they want to be served; there are JWs who do this, but many of us are having some real problems keeping up with what the WTS says we should do. We are then told the problem is with us, and not going to meetings or witnessing.
Since seeing what Jesus really wants, my depression is almost curing itself, and my chronic fatigue syndrome too!
Love to you, brother in Christ!
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 Strongisland34 says:

 January 31, 2013 at 11:01 am

the question to ask is when “preaching” the good news to people at what point are you leading them to Christ….(having them recognize that they are a sinner and are separated from God) In all the visits to people and return visits, when are you leading them to Christ. Since the bible wasnt written for the sinner and the cant understand it since its a mystery to them that dont believe, how can they understand what you are trying to show them in the bible if their eyes are not even open to what God is saying…I hope when JW’s go out preaching that they of course pray for the Holy Spirit to convict the people that they are trying to reach. Show them where it says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son to die on the cross or tree for us….Let the Holy Spirit do the work for you and when we allow that to happen God will do it not you the person….if the unbeliever doesnt accept what you are trying to show them, thats fine, you have introduced God in their life and they cant run from that…Maybe thats why it takes sooo long to convert someone to JW because there is no conversion to Christ first….Christ is the way not JW or organization…Ephesians 1:18 “the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,”
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 mumqueen says:

 November 24, 2013 at 10:05 am

I think this article is very narrow. It is only JWs where ALL the members take part in preaching and teaching. My brother-in-law claims to follow Jesus’ footsteps but has never told me about his faith and would never go knocking on doors. Also the JWs don’t only go door to door. They approach people wherever they are to tell them about the good news of how Jesus died for us. They may have their faults but they do try to follow Jesus’ example. I’m beginning to think that you are a Mormon because you go on about them so much. I don’t go to the JW meetings anymore due to their limited ability to love all members but I know that they are not as wrong as you make out in this article.
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 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 November 24, 2013 at 12:17 pm

mum queen, thank you for your post. You have already abandoned the meetings, because you do not see love in the congregation.
Good for you. Jesus said that we would know who was following his example correctly by the good fruitage of their labours.
Love for everyone is a prerequisite of being a Christian. The bible says that it is impossible to love God f we don’t love our fellow human beings.
I would encourage you to think deeply about what fruitage your actions produce. Jesus was a force for mercy and compassion. If you can show compassion for others then you are showing respect for his teachings.
I wish you well with your journey
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
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 Crazyguy says:

 November 25, 2013 at 10:44 pm

Jesus said the kingdom of god is like a large net collecting every kind of fish. The bible also says anyone believing in Christ is a sons of god. It goes on to say do not exalt yourselves and do not judge.
Any Christian religion that makes any claim of being the only true religion is clearly wrong.
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 tallad says:

 December 4, 2013 at 7:53 am

Good point , not all religions that claim to love and fallow Christ could claim that,in spite of all the organization failings,after all each individual JW will give an account to Jehovah for their dealings. As for the Mormons,you see only young ones only they ride their bikes(for a year,they retire after that) without stopping to talk to people,or when the spirit moves them to.they do not used the bible but the book of Mormon.
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 ADK800 says:

 December 17, 2013 at 7:51 am

I am sure even in Noah’s time there were people who asked Noah, why you? and how will you preach to all of us? Rain? What is rain? how can water come from heaven…? 2Peter3:9 god does not want any of us to perish….if there are people in China or any of the 30 territories deserving to survive Armageddon tomorrow…dont you think Jehovah has a better plan than for that?
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 mumqueen says:

 December 17, 2013 at 8:25 am

None of us knows Jehovah’s mind like he does. Therefore we need to trust that he will do what is right when armageddon comes. But in the meantime we can do our best to reach as many people as possible with the message of hope and the warning of destruction.
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 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 December 17, 2013 at 9:03 am

mum queen, why is there any need for “destruction”?
Who do you think is worthy of destruction?
As soon as folks start talking about destruction, I get very concerned. If your God is the personification of Love, why would he destroy anything at all? We have discovered that behaviour is in many cases made more likely by genetic differences in people. To be clear, it doesn’t make someone do a particular thing, it will mean that they are more likely to do it. We do not get to choose our genes. So why should a loving God destroy someone for simply being born with different genes?
We also know that behaviour is affected by our nurture. This simply means the environment in which we are raised. Again, we have no choice as children where we are born or how we are raised. Will a loving God destroy someone for simply being born into a culture?
The fact that genetics and nurture affect our behaviour is a matter of scientific consensus. Indeed, courts in many lands take these considerations into account when sentencing.
I ask you, would a God of love have to destroy anything and anyone at all? Couldn’t he help people to fulfil their potential instead?
Now we move onto a biblical point.
Do you agree that Jesus Christ was a ransom sacrifice, the second Adam, if you will?
Let’s look at the consequences of Adam’s sin first of all.
Adam (and Eve) sinned against God by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. On that day, they began to die.
Significantly for my argument, that sin and death was passed on to ALL descendants, regardless of how good or evil those descendants were. Holy one or sinner, both died.
Now, if Jesus is indeed the ransom of Adam (and Eve), his sacrifice then applied to ALL, regardless of how good or evil those people are.
The sacrifice has to be exactly the same as the sin.
So, according to this argument, no one should die! God is not a destroyer, he is a God of love.
If Jesus’ sacrifice only applies to JWs, as Anthony Morris III believes, then that is only covering a few million people. The population stands at around 7 billion or so.
Finally, I would humbly ask you to think deeply about the consequences of killing billions of people would have on any survivors. Would you want to live in a paradise bought at such cost?
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
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 mumqueen says:

 December 17, 2013 at 10:06 am

Excelsior, ask the people suffering torture, starvation (caused by globalisation), war, polluted water, living in slums because the wealthy steal all the resources etc. etc. The “world” of today is being influenced by satanic forces, but millions are striving to live a good life. Would you leave bad tenants in a house you owned after you have warned them of the consequences of their actions? Do you think that Jehovah’s beautiful Earth will survive another generation under the present conditions? Our god is bringing all this to an end because he loves his creation. Yes, he is a god of love and it saddens him to see even one person die but they have the choice to do good and live or not. You are just an apologist for evil. I prefer the hope of peace, good health and happiness above letting all and sundry continue on the Earth making me and millions of others suffer.
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 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 December 17, 2013 at 9:15 am

ADK 800,
As I have just mentioned, Anthony Morris III, has given speeches that imply that he believes that only JWs will survive Armageddon.
You raise Noah’s flood as an example. You do realise that there wasn’t an earth wide flood?
There is no evidence whatsoever for a flood that covered all the land masses of Earth at that time.
As for your contention that rain was unknown before the flood, well, sorry, but it just isn’t the case. Water has rained down on the surface of Earth for millions and millions of years.
You see, we are talking about the potential destruction of billions of people here. It is as serious as it gets.
Raising a bible story as an argument to support the fact that JWs have it right, is frankly ridiculous.
Most folks who happily talk about the deaths of billions of people have never really thought about what they are saying. Close your eyes. Now, think that everyone in your street is dead. Everyone in your town is dead. Everyone, apart from the witnesses in their Kingdom Halls, in your country is dead. Everyone, apart from the JWs, is dead around the whole globe.
Now I’m sure that you’ve met countless kind and decent non witnesses in your life. They are dead.
Your family members who are not witnesses are dead.
You are surrounded by dead people. A God who describes himself as Love would just not do that.
I encourage you to do some research on Noah’s Flood. You will find that no evidence supports it. Indeed, you will find that if it had happened, there would be unambiguous evidence that it had occurred. No such evidence exists.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
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 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 December 19, 2013 at 7:35 am

mumqueen,
I shall attempt to discuss the points you raised.
1. The world is being affected by “Satanic forces”. Surely, if these forces are removed, then human beings will be better able to understand God’s love and change their ways? Why do they need to die before they’ve had that chance?
2. Your argument about bad tenants is not a suitable analogy. If a bad tenant is evicted, he or she is not killed. They merely move on to another property. Will God give people the chance of moving out?
3. The earth will survive for billions more years. True, there are grave ecological concerns that need a united effort to face, but life as we know it can continue for at least another hundred years or so.
4. You contend that people who are killed will have had a chance to do good. The definition of good and evil is by no means universal. People may believe they are doing good, but in fact be doing evil. As an example, look at the WTBTS’ handling of child abuse and domestic violence.
5. You prefer the hope of peace, good health and happiness above letting all and sundry continue on earth making you and millions of others suffer.
Surely, you are not placing your own happiness above that of others, are you? How can that be a Christian position?
These “all and sundry” are your fellow human beings. They may not be living a Christian life, but they still deserve to be treated with love, as your leader, Christ, told you to do.
I sense a lot of bitterness in you. Your life stinks and so it is everybody else’s fault, and they should just get off the earth and allow your so called paradise to reign.
Lastly, we come to your contention that I am an apologist for evil. That is just so contrary to any Christian principle that it doesn’t even deserve a response.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
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 jannapr says:

 February 25, 2014 at 5:16 pm

True Jesus said that this good news would be preached in all the earth, but he also did mention an evil slave that would be present when he comes and never said that the witnesses will be invincible. He made clear that many would be betrayers and so on . It was mentioned that there would be lawlessness in the Temple of The God.(2Thes 2:3-10) So maybe yes good news preached but does not mean their all exceptable.
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 Marcelo says:

 April 1, 2014 at 2:20 pm

Hola los testigos de Jehová tenemos muchos defectos incluso hay falsos testigos de Jehová mezclados entre nosotros pero solo dime,¿Hay otra religión que ofrezca algo mejor que los testigos de jehová? Si sabés la respuesta solo dímelo porque yo aun no he encontrado algo mejor ni creo que pueda hacerlo…
Reply
 

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← Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 3)
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Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 4)
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Posted on May 26, 2012

The Finished Mystery – a book that was in widespread circulation when Christ is said to have selected our organization

Part 4 – Was our organization chosen in 1919?
In the fourth and final installment of my “Under The Microscope” series, I will examine the concept that Christ selected the Watch Tower Society to represent the earthly part of God’s organization some time between 1918 and 1919. This is the primary reason given in the Society’s literature as to why the Slave Class should be viewed as God’s channel of communication with mankind.
There are three lesser lines of reasoning for reaching this conclusion, and these have already been discussed at length in the following articles. If you haven’t already done so, I would encourage you to read these articles and reach your own conclusions on the information presented:
◾The perceived wondrous expansion of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide
◾The love that Jehovah’s Witnesses have among themselves (John 13:35)
◾The claim that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones preaching the good news worldwide (Matt 24:14)
Many of you reading this web page will be zealous Jehovah’s Witnesses who want to support the “Slave Class” in reaching the entire earth with the message of good news from the bible. Your motives and enthusiasm are to be commended, particularly since you view your primary objective as that of helping others. However, it would be wise for you to take a moment to analyze your beliefs, if only to ensure that you are worshipping God with “truth”. (John 4:23-24) After all, just imagine for a moment that it could be proven beyond doubt that this isn’t “the Truth” after all, and all your time, efforts and enthusiasm are being misappropriated and channeled to support an entirely human organization. “Impossible!”, you might say. But if that were the case, how would you come to know the real truth without tracing all things with accuracy and continually “testing whether you are in the faith”? (Luke 1:3; 2 Cor. 13:5)
Besides, is it right that we constantly ask others whom we meet on our public ministry to scrutinize their own beliefs without first scrutinizing our own? Does not the real truth always stand up to close scrutiny, however invasive such scrutiny might be? It is with these questions in mind that I urge you to read this article, and give the contents thoughtful consideration. It may be that, after reading, you reach the conclusion that Jehovah’s Witnesses and their “Slave Class” could not possibly have been chosen by Christ in 1919 after all. On the other hand, you may still consider this teaching to be true. Regardless, if what we have is really “the Truth”, then there can be no harm in reaffirming this for ourselves by exploring all possible objections that others might raise with us.
Why is 1919 so important?
It is worth reminding ourselves briefly of what the Society actually claims happened between 1918 and 1919. According to their interpretation of bible prophecy, in 1918 Christ fulfilled Malachi 3:1 by coming to inspect Jehovah’s “spiritual temple”, which is said to represent the anointed followers of Christ. After doing this, it is said that in 1919 he chose the Bible Students as his “Slave Class” based on the “spiritual food” they were distributing at that time. This is well reflected in the following quote from a 2007 magazine article:

“‘On arriving’ to inspect the ‘slave’ in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal [the Watchtower] and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or ‘slave,’ and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.” (The Watchtower 2007 4/1 p. 22)
It is interesting to note the emphasis that is placed here on the literature being circulated by the Bible Students prior to Christ’s arrival. This is because the principal duty of the “Slave Class” according to Matthew 24:45 is that they should give Christ’s domestics (or followers) “their food at the proper time”. Logically, therefore, if Christ were to “inspect” his disciples in 1918 as to their suitability to fill this special role, it would be on the basis of the “spiritual food” they were distributing at that time. This is precisely what the Society frequently infers in its publications, although for some reason, it never seems to explain things quite this clearly.
Clayton J Woodworth – one of the writers of The Finished Mystery

The above quote refers to the Watchtower magazine and “other Bible-based publications” being used as a vehicle for “spiritual food” by the “Slave Class” at the time of Christ’s inspection. One publication in significant circulation by the Bible Students at that time was the book The Finished Mystery, which was first published in 1917 (only a year before Christ’s supposed inspection). This book, often referred to in the “Revelation Climax” book, was hailed as the posthumous work of Charles Taze Russell, but in reality it was written by Clayton J. Woodworth and George H. Fisher after these two men were assigned to the task by the Watch Tower president and two other members of the board of directors. It was the seventh and final volume of a widely distributed series of books entitled Studies In The Scriptures.
Here’s what one Watchtower article had to say about the distribution of The Finished Mystery in particular during that time:

“In the latter half of 1917 the faithful forefront preachers of the ‘discreet slave’ class energetically took up distribution of The Finished Mystery, for within seven months the Society’s outside printers were busy on the 850,000 edition. ‘The sale of the Seventh Volume is unparalleled by the sale of any other book known, in the same length of time, excepting the Bible.’” (The Watchtower 1955 4/1 p. 206)
It is therefore safe to say that The Finished Mystery was being distributed extensively by the time Christ ostensibly arrived to inspect anointed Christians in 1918. As one of the primary sources of “spiritual food” being distributed to the “domestics” at that time, it is inconceivable that Christ would have neglected to examine the contents of this book during such an inspection. Having thus read it, it is similarly difficult to imagine that he would have looked on the book favorably, since it contained some astoundingly flawed interpretations of scripture that were fanciful at best, and disturbingly misleading at worst.
At this point, I must recognize that most people reading this article will NOT have read The Finished Mystery, either in whole or in part. For the most part, this is because the Society no longer publishes the work, and only occasionally refers to it in modern publications. It should also be recognized that this book, along with other older literature and magazines, is frequently considered as “old light” and therefore not worthy of our attention.
I will explain later in this article why the very idea of “old” and “new” light runs contrary to the scriptures, but for the time being, let’s remind ourselves of the significance of The Finished Mystery. This was the principal book being distributed by the Bible Students at the time of Christ’s inspection in 1918, and it was on the basis of the contents of this and other publications that the Society was chosen in 1919 to represent Christ as his “Slave Class”. Therefore, irrespective of whether it was “new light” or “old light”, we can reasonably assert that Christ should have been able to find at least a decent portion of wisdom and truth befitting of “spiritual food” in the words he would have read.
For the purpose of enlightening readers who have not yet had opportunity to examine The Finished Mystery, I have prepared a 2-page PDF that goes through some “highlights” of the book. You are invited to download the PDF, either in A4 or letter format, and check the references provided against the book itself to ensure that I have represented everything accurately. The PDF is designed to be printed ‘double-sided’, so that it can be folded and inserted into publications such as the Revelation Climax book.
Below are just a few of the more striking observations from The Finished Mystery. You are encouraged to look up the pages in the book yourself to see that I am not exaggerating.
The book claimed that Russell’s estrangement from his wife Maria was prophesied in the Bible

◾Charles Taze Russell was the “faithful and wise servant” (or “faithful and discreet slave”) and he was also the “seventh angel” mentioned in the book of Revelation. (pp.4-6, 53, 169)
◾The book of Ezekiel prophesied that God would separate Russell from his wife, Maria, and make her “dead” in his eyes. (pp.483-484)
◾Russell continued to supervise the harvest work, even after his death. (pp.144, 256)
◾Ezekiel 33:22 foretold Russell speaking from beyond the grave by means of The Finished Mystery. (p.530)
◾The Finished Mystery was “divinely provided” to humanity, and is the “incense burner” referred to in Revelation 8:5. (p.145)
◾Revelation 14:20 predicted the precise traveling distance between where The Finished Mystery was written, and where it was printed. (p.230)
◾The “loud voice” in Revelation 14:18 was a “disappointed cry” because Russell did not have time to complete The Finished Mystery himself. (p.227)
◾The “behemoth” of Job 40 is the stationary steam engine, and the “leviathan” of Job 41 is the steam locomotive. (pp.84-85)
◾The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 is the “Bishop of Rome” who is the “personal representative of Satan”. (p.106)
◾Michael and his angels, as described in Revelation 12, are the Pope and his bishops. (p.188)
◾The “voice out of heaven” in Revelation 18:4 is the voice of the Watch Tower Society. (p.276)
◾Revelation 18:1 describes the glory of Christ causing enlightenment for the world from 1874 onwards, resulting in a lengthy list of inventions and discoveries including: barbed wire, cash registers, typewriters and vacuum cleaners. (p. 273)
According to The Finished Mystery, passages in Job describing the “behemoth” and “leviathan” were describing different types of steam engine

I could go on, but I’m sure you get the picture. The above assertions, all of which are taken from the pages of The Finished Mystery, are both wildly speculative and embarrassingly spurious. I don’t believe I am being unkind in dismissing the book as complete absurdity from beginning to end. Indeed, the whole process of reading The Finished Mystery, or even simply leafing through its pages, can be quite a mentally and emotionally draining experience. For a born and raised Jehovah’s Witness like myself, it is comparable to walking in on a respected elderly relative in an embarrassing moment of indignity, such is the unbridled self-indulgence with which the writers give free rein to their wildest imaginings.
There is also scarcely a page where lavish praise is not heaped on the then recently departed Charles Taze Russell, who is heralded as “the most prolific writer of bible truth that ever lived” (p.65) and “a true priest of the Almighty” (p.368). Without meaning any disrespect, at times it is difficult to determine whom the writers are worshipping more – God or Russell.
Despite all this, it is astonishing to note the voracity with which modern Watchtower publications defend this publication as evidence of Christ’s direction of the organization and/or favoring of it. The 1988 “Revelation Climax” book is an excellent example. The writers of Revelation – Its Grand Climax At Hand herald The Finished Mystery as “a powerful commentary on Revelation and Ezekiel” (see page 165) and attribute it with playing a key role in fulfilling the prophecy of the “Two Witnesses” spoken of in Revelation 11. Note the following quote, taken from a box on page 208:

“Thus, rather than following the example of faithful Peter, these and other popes were an evil influence. They allowed bloodguilt and spiritual and physical fornication, as well as a Jezebel influence, to corrupt the church they ruled. (James 4:4) In 1917 the Bible Students’ book The Finished Mystery set out many of these facts in stark detail. This was one way that the Bible Students in those days ‘struck the earth with every sort of plague.’—Revelation 11:6; 14:8; 17:1, 2, 5.” (Revelation – Its Grand Climax At Hand!, box on page 208)
It is safe to say that the writers of the “Revelation Climax” book would have felt comfortable describing The Finished Mystery as a book of “facts” given that they knew the vast majority of readers would never have the opportunity to read the work for themselves. Despite endorsing the book and awarding it a prominent role in the fulfillment of bible prophecy, it is interesting that even the “Revelation Climax” book struggles to be consistently generous in its adulation of the work…

“After his [Russell’s] death in 1916, many of his writings were collected and published in a book entitled The Finished Mystery. In time, though, this book proved to be unsatisfactory as an explanation of Revelation.” (Revelation – Its Grand Climax At Hand!, page 159)
Despite the errors in The Finished Mystery, the “Revelation Climax” book still credited it with a role in fulfilling bible prophecy

It is difficult to comprehend how the writers of the “Revelation Climax” book could fail to see the irony in their assertions. A book that “proved to be unsatisfactory” as an explanation of the bible book of Revelation is simultaneously said to have fulfilled it! It is also noteworthy that, despite referring to The Finished Mystery as “powerful”, “fearless”, “polemic” and even “controversial”* in its publications down through the years, the Watch Tower Society nearly always shies away from specifically endorsing or repeating its actual contents in print. Rather, it hails the brazenness and audacity with which the book condemned the leaders of other Christian faiths of the period. The book is thus indulged as though it were a spoilt and unruly child – its indiscretions overlooked, but its energy and exuberance praised.
The publications give the impression that The Finished Mystery’s provocative nature alone gave sufficient grounds for it to play a role in the outworking of God’s purpose. However, surely Christ would have no interest whatsoever in how controversial or opinionated such publications would prove to be. Almost certainly his primary focus in inspecting “spiritual food” would be its merits in terms of accuracy and effectiveness in dispensing words of bible truth to his followers. (John 8:31-32; 14:6; 16:13) On such a criterion, The Finished Mystery falls woefully short by anyone’s standard.
Despite this, one Watchtower article goes so far as to assert that Christ actually disciplined the Society for removing pages 247-253 of the book due to government censure! The pages in question delved unashamedly into the realm of politics, criticizing the US government’s involvement in World War 1. The Society relented to external pressure, and asked the brothers to remove these pages from any existing copies. However, more recent publications have declared this to have been a sin for which Christ rebuked the organization, leading to the imprisonment of senior officials.

“Organizationally they remembered their sins, such as compromisingly cutting out pages 247-253 of The Finished Mystery, their seventh volume of Studies in the Scriptures, to please would-be censors, The Watch Tower encouraging its readers to set aside May 30, 1918, as a day of prayer and supplication as requested by the American Congress on April 2 and as proclaimed by President Wilson May 11, their tendering of compliments to governments of this world, and their dabbling in nonreligious enterprises. As a body they confessed, ‘We have sinned with our fathers, we have committed iniquity, we have done wickedly.’” (The Watchtower, 1955 5/1 pp. 266-267)
If Jesus had truly taken an active interest in the exploits of the Bible Students during this period, I’m fairly certain he would have applauded them for removing pages of this awful book rather than chastising them for it. In reality, by ceasing to print The Finished Mystery and failing to encourage people to read it, the modern organization has effectively torn out all of its pages in their entirety. Should Christ discipline them again for doing so?
The truth is, it is highly unlikely that Christ took any interest in this or any other publications of the Society during this period. In his book In Search of Christian Freedom, the late Raymond Franz (a former Governing Body member) provides an overview of the literature being circulated by the organization at that time, including The Finished Mystery. He summarizes quite eloquently as follows:

“A direct investigation of the publications of the Watch Tower organization in the years from 1914 to 1919 reveals none of the prudent discretion that causes a man to ‘keep his lips in check’. It would be an insult to Christ Jesus to say that he selected this organization on the basis of what it was teaching, uniquely and distinctively, as of 1919.” (Raymond Franz, In Search of Christian Freedom, page 145)
Former Governing Body member Raymond Franz believed that the 1918/1919 teaching was an insult to Christ

Having researched The Finished Mystery and other publications from those years myself, I can wholeheartedly agree with the above words. It would indeed be an “insult” to suggest that Jesus could endorse the ideas and concepts being propounded in these publications, either doctrinally or otherwise. I have recently published an article on another website highlighting the racism that flourished in publications during the presidencies of Russell and Rutherford. These racist articles surfaced both before, during and after Christ’s supposed inspection. To suggest that Christ supported such bigoted outbursts would also be an insult, as it would imply that he sympathizes with racist ideology when in fact the bible tells us that “God is not partial”. (Acts 10:34,35)
The light gets brighter?
This brings us to a commonly voiced objection by many who will be familiar with the Society’s teachings. We are constantly informed in the publications that any errors in books or magazines from years gone by were due to the “light getting brighter”. In other words, the brothers during the days of Russell, Rutherford and Knorr were not granted full understanding of the bible or God’s purposes for them. As a result, their publications contained many errors, which render them unworthy of any serious consideration by Jehovah’s people today.
This idea brings with it a great contradiction, because although errors in the publications are freely admitted, they are still indirectly attributed to God as having been provided as “spiritual food” by his holy spirit through his earthly organization. Again, the exact relationship between God’s holy spirit and the writers of Watchtower publications seems to be rather obscured in the literature, but here is just one example of how the Society claims that God’s holy spirit takes an active role in the actual preparation of the publications, however error-strewn they may subsequently turn out to be:

“If we are sorely tried and do not know what to pray for, ‘the spirit joins in with help for our weakness, pleading for us with groanings unuttered.’ God answers such prayers. (Romans 8:26, 27) Let us pray for holy spirit and allow it to produce in us those of its fruits particularly needed to face a certain trial. (Luke 11:13) We will also increase our joy if we prayerfully and diligently study God’s spirit-inspired Word and Christian publications prepared under the spirit’s guidance.” (The Watchtower, 1992 3/15 pp. 21-22)
The Society claims that those who prepare their publications are guided by Jehovah’s holy spirit, even when mistakes are made

Thus, the bible is “spirit-inspired”, whereas the Watchtower publications are said to be prepared “under the spirit’s guidance”. Try as hard as I may, I have yet to find a single Watchtower article that satisfactorily explains the difference between “spirit-inspired” and “spirit-guided”. To my mind, both terms mean one and the same thing. Either way, it is clear from the above quote that the Society claims guidance from God’s holy spirit as playing a key role in the preparation of Watchtower publications. If this is the case, why would God deliberately “guide” the planting of erroneous thoughts and teachings in material intended for his worshippers?
The Society frequently uses three scriptures to impress upon Jehovah’s Witnesses their teaching of “increased light”. These are as follows:

“Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along.For they do not sleep unless they do badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling.” (Proverbs 4:14-19, New World Translation)
“Consequently we have the prophetic word [made] more sure; and YOU are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in YOUR hearts. For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2 Peter 1:19-21, New World Translation)
“And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”And I saw, I Daniel, and, look! there were two others standing, one on the bank here of the stream and the other on the bank there of the stream. Then one said to the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of the wonderful things?” And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.” Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so that I said: “O my lord, what will be the final part of these things?” And he went on to say: “Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.” (Daniel 12:4-10, New World Translation)
Unquestionably, the scripture in Proverbs 4:18 is the most frequently used of the above three when driving home the idea of “increasing light”. However, the context of the scripture clearly shows that the “path of the righteous ones” is merely analogous of the favorable consequences enjoyed by righteous people in comparison with “wicked ones”. Bible prophecy or even “God’s word” is mentioned nowhere in this scripture. The “prophetic word” in 2 Peter 1:19 is a “lamp shining in a dark place” – it neither brightens nor dims. Daniel 12 describes the wicked ones failing to understand his prophecy, but only the “ones having insight” understanding. Indeed, according to this verse, whether or not bible prophecies are correctly understood seems to be an indicator of whether or not the one “roving about” is wicked or righteous! There is certainly no room for changes in interpretation, or going back to an original idea. You either understand, or you don’t.
The truth is, when read in their full context, none of the above three commonly used scriptures describe a scenario in which Jehovah God would use his holy spirit to knowingly and deliberately issue false information to his worshippers as a “makeweight” until true information is revealed at a later stage. This is simply not how the “God of truth” goes about doing things in the scriptures. (Psalm 31:5) Rather, when God wants his servants to know something, he tells them unequivocally and with no ambiguity or innuendo. In the case of a prophecy, for example, the words of a true prophet speaking on behalf of Jehovah are said to always come true without fail. The bible even tells us that you can identify a false prophet simply by noting whether the words he has spoken in Jehovah’s name have come true or not. (Deu. 18:20-22)
Faced with the evidence, there is therefore no scriptural reason for believing in the Society’s teaching of increasing light. Either the Society speaks as God’s representative in all things, or not at all. They must choose for themselves, as must their readers.
In reality, the “increasing light” teaching provides a convenient escape hatch whenever the Society is confronted with evidence of past teachings that are either suspect or downright misleading. It also allows the Society to change their prophetic interpretations whenever history proves the previous teachings to be false. However, wherever the “increasing light” doctrine came from, it most certainly doesn’t originate from the bible – that much is clear. The bible has simply been misquoted in a number of places in such a way as to apparently lend support to the notion. Indeed, the bible speaks clearly and unequivocally of those who speak falsely in Jehovah’s name, and its judgment of such ones is far from flattering.
What it all means
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and you have read this far in the article, you are to be commended for your bravery and thirst for real truth. Without wishing to sound too dramatic, if I could reach out and embrace you, I would do so! It is never easy facing the realization that so much of what you have learned and accepted as “truth” over the years is nothing more than human opinion. The publications and magazines of the “Slave Class” have, from the very beginning, been strewn with errors and very human ideas, including failed predictions and harsh teachings. Does this mean that the Society was wrong to “rove about” in God’s word, and offer their thoughts and ideas as to what certain scriptures might mean? Absolutely not!
The Governing Body claims to serve as “representatives” of the anointed, even though it has no interest in knowing who these ones are

Everyone is free to read the bible and publish his or her own ideas on what scriptures might mean. However, the Watch Tower Society has always gone one step further, and insisted that, as God’s sole organization on the Earth, their interpretation alone is to be considered the final word on all scriptural matters. In particular, the Governing Body has usurped the position of the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”, claiming to act as their “representative” when, in fact, none of the nearly 12,000 members of the anointed outside the world headquarters receive any contact or individual acknowledgment from the Governing Body. This is strange for the following reasons:
◾It was the “faithful and discreet slave” and NOT the Governing Body who were said to have been chosen by Christ in 1919.
◾The term “governing body” is found nowhere in the bible, neither does Jesus ever allude to a “governing body” as being necessary in order to represent his “Slave Class”.
◾If the Governing Body was truly a “representative” of the nearly 12,000 anointed, they would at least show some interest in the identity of such ones. Instead, a recent Watchtower article said that the Governing Body has no intention of contacting such ones, and even insinuated that memorial partakers other than the individual members of the Governing Body might be insane! (see w2011 8/15 p22)
Hopefully, if you have had chance to ponder on the above information, you will reach the realization (as I have) that Christ didn’t choose the organization in 1919 after all. The Society may continue to insist that it did, but in so doing it relies on the fact that there is nobody left who is old enough to remember the events to which so much prophetic significance is attached. The publications are therefore free to ‘wax lyrical’ and embellish accounts of these events in our organization’s history to give the impression that they were of supreme importance in the outworking of God’s purposes, when in fact they were nothing of the sort.
This, coupled with the absence of tangible evidence that God is indeed blessing the growth of the organization to the extent implied by the Society leaves one with the undeniable realization that Jehovah’s Witnesses, however well-meaning, are just another human religion. They enjoy no special relationship with God. Furthermore, it is unrealistic for them to aspire to such a relationship in the future while they continue to promote harsh, unloving and even life threatening teachings such as shunning, the rejection of blood transfusions, and the protection of child abusers if such ones falsely claim they are innocent.
“Where do I go from here?” you may well ask. Please let me reassure you that, contrary to what you have been led to believe, there is more to life than simply having everything you believe dictated to you by a human organization. There are many meaningful and fulfilling things you can do with your life, and there are many people in your situation who can sympathize with your dilemma and help you to break free from the Society’s influence.
Of course, everyone has different circumstances. You may not be in a situation to make a stand for what you honestly believe due to family, or other similar concerns. Each one must make his or her own decisions as to what they think is best based on individual circumstances and what they know to be true. If someone reaches the decision to remain as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for family or other reasons, then I would be the last person to criticize them for doing so. After all, I am in a similar awkward position myself.
Whatever you choose to do, please be assured that you are not alone in your doubts, and there are many others like you throughout the world that share in your struggle. Hopefully, by coming together on websites such as this, we can begin to make a difference.








*The descriptions of The Finished Mystery I allude to can be found in the following Watchtower references: w95 5/15 p21; w70 4/1 pp.200-201; w67 2/15 p108; w64 7/15 p442.
Read the books referred to for yourself (from Internet Archives):
The Finished Mystery 1918 edition
Revelation Climax – 1988



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15 Responses to Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 4)

 Cedars says:

 June 10, 2012 at 2:23 am

We received the following comment from somebody called “Dave” who was unable to comment. Here are his remarks:
“Interesting article!
BTW, on the “Spirit-inspired” thing:
Notice both of those words contain the same root, ‘spir’ (which is also found in words like respire, expire, aspire, perspire).
Israelites believed, just as their Babylonian and Egyptian “hosts”, that the organ of cognition was found, not in the head (i.e. the brain), but in the torso; specifically, they thought the centers of cognition were the lungs, the heart, the kidneys, and spleen. Even Aristotle was wrong on this point, as he also believed the heart was playing the role that modern men all know the brain actually plays.
But back to ‘spire':
The word ‘respire’ properly refers to air entering the lungs to supply oxygen to the bloodstream. However, ancient men believed that ideas were formed in the lungs, and in a pre-literate (oral communication, only) world, ideas were also expressed by talking, which requires exhaling of breath and passing to the listeners.
They also believed that Gods could directly inject ideas into mortals by “inspiring” them, literally breathing the ideas into their organ of cognition, the lungs. The air/ideas thus injected was the spirit of God at work.
So now you can see that “spirit-inspired” is a redundant phrase, a construct that reflects an ignorance of the etymology.
Speaking of divine inspiration, God is quoted in Genesis as referring to “evil thoughts found in the hearts of men” when explaining why he Flooded the Earth. That was no figure of speech: Hebrews literally believed the heart, along with the lungs, served as the center of cognition. It only became a figure of speech AFTER millenia of endorsement from the Bible!
So God is quoted directly as believing incorrect anatomical functions for the heart, as espoused by the famous (but incorrect) Egyptian/Babylonian scientists of the day which the scribes relied on to write the account.
Now, would a God who created mankind NOT understand the anatomical role of the heart? Or forgot the role of the brain, the crowning achievement of his mankind, which is not even mentioned ONCE in the Bible?
The same goes for the kidneys role being incorrect in Psalms…
The Bible is chock-full of old anatomical misbeliefs of ancient men. “Divinely-inspired”?”
Reply
 

 Jibrael says:

 June 23, 2012 at 7:11 pm

I also have read “The Finished Mystery,” and it was quite a shocker. The Revelation Climax book argues that many of the prophecies of Revelation actually foretold this exact publication, so I was excited to find a copy… until I realized that none of this stuff was remotely true. The only part I found inspiring was its condemnation of WWI, but JWs were not the only religion decrying that war; in fact, the anti-war passages in “Finished Mystery” were all quotes from a Catholic priest!
 For those really interested in Revelation, I recommend either Marcus Borg’s “Reading the Bible Again For the First Time,” or “Revelations” by Elaine Pagels. Both are scholarly works, and far from Watchtower teaching, but the logic is sound, and the intepretations are something I can get behind.
Reply
 

 Naima says:

 July 19, 2012 at 1:26 am

My question was. .’could the holy spirit have misled them to test our loyalty?’…I now have my answer thank you. .most of us are hostages for obvious reasons. .
Reply
 

 Don Cameron says:

 August 26, 2012 at 1:32 pm

”You’ll never get sick. You will never grow old. And you will never die.”
Although the above words come from the movie “Cocoon,” they could have come
 from the Watchtower Society because this is the same thing they have been proclaiming for decades as part of “the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.”*
This very appealing prospect attracts many people to begin to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses. It then sustains them as they eagerly wait for the fulfillment of this promise.
But during the course of their study they get drawn into an illusionary concept involving the Watchtower organization that gradually takes over their decision-making process and even their conscience without them realizing it. It happens because of a mistake that everyone makes before they decide to become a Jehovah’s Witness.
Captives of a Concept identifies both the concept and the mistake that causes people to become captives of it. The book also offers a few suggestions about how to help Jehovah’s Witnesses correct their mistake and teach themselves the truth about their religion.
The book is designed to help the reader understand the illusionary concept mentioned by Raymond Franz on page 296 of his Crisis of Conscience, which holds Jehovah’s Witnesses (and even their Governing Body) captive by dominating and controlling how they think and act.
It explains how the leadership has been able to keep themselves (apparently) and millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses convinced that “the Watchtower Society is God’s organization” no matter what the Bible says or what went on in the organization’s history.
Reply
 

 Ant Lloyd says:

 December 7, 2012 at 8:58 pm

Do you know Cedars,
I really appreciate your well-written articles.
I find it funny that we are encouraged to follow the example of the Beroean Christians and at the same time we are berated if we voice an opinion just an ounce out of what the ‘slave’ teaches. We are constantly told of the need to read the Bible daily, like the Beroeans did. Now, the Beroeans were commended by Paul for ‘receiving the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.’ (Acts 17:11) I’ve always noticed that they didn’t take things at face value, but they checked if what Paul preached to them 1) was scriptural and 2) was really so. Now, even though Paul was an apostle chosen by none other than Jesus it didn’t mean they shouldn’t think for themselves. So, why should it be so wrong that we do the same? That we check whether what are told or taught ‘is really so’ according to the scriptures? That we do what we tell others to do and use our own Bible-based conscience instead of just accepting what others tell us is right? That we think?
A quick search in the publications will show that the GB has used the expression “independent thinking” rarely in the past decade. Funnily enough it was used a lot in the 80’s. Perhaps they realize how damaging it looks from the outside to not encourage critical thinking. Now, other expressions I couldn’t help noticing was in that talk by James Rayford about how close the end is, in which he uses the terms ‘governing body’ and ‘faithful slave’ interchangeably. And that was in 2007. And he was telling us ‘what the GB thinks about Matthew 24:14 and the time of the end’. He wanted us to know what they really thought. In light of the “new light”, was he subliminally telling us that the GB was the FS? Was he already laying the groundwork for that change? Was he telling us that they actually thought they were the FS as well?
So, we should be like the Beroeans and carefully examine the scriptures as to what we are told is really so. And there is nothing wrong with that.
“That you may PROVE TO YOURSELVES the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”. (Rom 12:2)
Reply
 

 Christinethomas7788@yahoo.com says:

 December 22, 2012 at 7:08 pm

– I have written to the society on several occasions to share with them some seemingly reputal information that I had been working on for years – They refused to read my findins and labeled me as an Apostate and told me I was demonized and mentally ill -I would like to share a few that I sent to them here – and see if you also think that I am a demon posessed apostate – I willl submit below – please click on the link – WILL GOD’S PEOPLE BE STUMBLE BY THE TRUE NAME OF CHRIST – “JEHOSHUA”?
http://issues.xanga.com/765390089/item/
Reply
 

 Christine says:

 December 22, 2012 at 7:11 pm

– Am I a demonized Apostate ?
 DOES IT MATTER WHAT WE CALL CHRIST ?
http://paintingpictures.xanga.com/765952610/item/
Reply
 

 70wksofyrs says:

 February 24, 2013 at 2:40 pm

I am reading an earlier article from this mag with a new perspective it states…………………….
IS YOUR TEACHING UP-TO-DATE?
Apollos was helped to improve the effectiveness of his ministry
We want to stay up-to-date with the understanding of Bible truth so that we can share accurate knowledge with others. With that in mind, how would you answer the following questions?
 Whom did Jesus have in mind when he spoke of “this generation” mentioned at Matthew 24:34?—The Watchtower, April 15, 2010, pages 10-11.
 When does the separating of “the sheep from the goats” described at Matthew 25:32 take place?—The Watchtower, October 15, 1995, pages 21-23.
 As stated at Luke 21:26, when will “men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth”?—The Watchtower, February 15, 1994, pages 19-20.
By augmenting daily Bible reading with careful personal study, we will be able to help others walk in the ever-increasing light that Jehovah sheds on his written Word.—Prov. 4:18.
………………. quite frankly this part of the article shoots the whole article in the foot……….with the new light doctrine setting up us for the new George Orwell teaching of some pigs are more equal than others but telling us to research the Bible ourselves??????????????
Reply
 

 70wksofyrs says:

 February 24, 2013 at 3:16 pm

Sorry I am a novice blogger………….wrong thread
Reply
 

 Anonymous says:

 June 11, 2013 at 2:48 am

As you your self said where do you go from here? You say some interpertations are wrong but offer no bible based truth in return. In truth “”All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness” And in the end no one will be given a pass. In the end we all must each come to inpired understanding of these Scriptures and only with Jehovah’s help can that happen. Give people some credit we are all shaped by our experience’s which can not be denied. Not even you. Thanks C.J. Born and rasied this way. Thru the the bible teaching followed by a good Mom, saved my life not by any ones direction.
Reply
 

 Arno says:

 July 21, 2013 at 11:03 pm

With Ant Lloyd, above, I can but concur that I really appreciate these well written articles of yours that I’ve read so far, Cedars, and with special reference to these last four *Under The Microscope.*
What I also appreciate is your un-emotional, objective, logical, and kindly approach. I wish more *critical* JW websites were like this one :)
Anyway, this very topic of Christ having come in 1919 to inspect his *spiritual temple* and subsequent WT anomalies as to date setting and chopping and changing doctrine whilst claiming to be directed/inspired/whatever by holy spirit, caused me to be declared an apostate after a severe judicial meeting…and the rest hurtful and sad history. My wife are still for all practical purposes a Witness. I just couldn’t do what you are doing, i.e. going through the motions.
I really feel for all of you who are stuck inside and having to go undercover to escape the terrible consequences that *that* body of old men (all died out now I guess) and replaced with ANOTHER body of not so young men, can do to YOUR personal and family lives. Although we are not divorced today, we are separated since 1999. At times I regret that I stood up to the whole hoax…but then again, in retrospect, I’m also glad I did what I did. I just couldn’t rape my own conscience… Spiritually I’ve grown stronger, and still am.
Please, do not read at all that I think that you guys and girls who chose to go undercover are weaklings or in any way are *raping* YOUR integrity. Far from it. It’s just the way I experience it personally :) I know it’s landmine territory out there in Witness-land. I’m just very glad to have stumbled on this site of yours.
I wish you all strength and just the very best that God can and *will* throw your way. Be of good cheer.
Reply
 

 LMC says:

 September 19, 2013 at 8:34 pm

After reading all of these articles and especially The Finished Mystery which btw I always thought was highly acclaimed by the WTS (at least in many of their WT articles) I always believed what I was told. After reading some of the beliefs that Charles Taze Russel indulged in I have to conclude that this man was a KOOK!
Reply
 

 Joe says:

 October 18, 2013 at 9:10 am

GB has clarified how we should understand this attitude of the Beroeans resent watchtower. I think some time last year or so. They said the Beroeans where not searching outside what the Apostles has thought them.
Reply
 

 jannapr says:

 February 25, 2014 at 4:58 pm

Divine direction.. Thats a little frightning how they could say that. The reason why is because Satan has them mislead and using the bible, twisting the scriptures.(2Peter 3:16) They acually tell on themselves; in The Prodigal Son Returns video. The man thats influenced is a Jw ,who is influenced by a respected popular Jw “”A brother”” He never gets busted. The whole piont is these corrupt influences are in the congragation. So they need to really adjust their thoughts and know Satan is surrounding them and CAN because of their haughtiness.
Reply
 

 Jay Laflamme says:

 December 16, 2014 at 10:32 am

I think it is very important to emphasize how FILTHY RICH the governing body is. Anyone who gets into that space is controlling a huge amount of money. It would be good to see how the governing body rewards itself. Those men must have some material weaknesses that only a billionaire can have?? Where do they live? How much do they spend on clothes or personal effects? Jewelery? Technology? It would be very interesting to see how they live behind closed doors.
Reply
 

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← Branch closures and fire sales – a growing trend for the Society?
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1) →

If the Watchtower Discontinued Shunning
Posted on April 28, 2012

A Mini-Survey
Jehovah’s Witnesses have used the practice of “shunning” since the early 1940s to punish disfellowshipped former members by denying them contact with their believing friends and family members. Every decade since then the Watchtower has expanded the punishment to include other persons besides “fornicators” and “evil doers.” Even those who have not been formally disfellowshipped or disassociated from their congregations can now find themselves shunned for a vastly expanded number of reasons – or in some cases for no particular reason at all.
This “mini-survey” asks what course you might take if the Watchtower announced an official end to the practice of shunning. How would you react or change your lifestyle? Please read the questions below and select the answer that best represents what you’d do. As always, we encourage you to comment on this poll and share your thoughts on the subject.










If currently considered to be an active JW, would you:
 Remain active and continue on as before.
 Stop going to meetings and field service, but continue to identify yourself as a JW.
 Disassociate and leave the Witnesses knowing that your family relationships would not be affected.
 Unsure at this time, but would appreciate having the options.


View Results







If you are a disfellowshipped or disassociated former JW, would you:
 Immediately return to the organization.
 Not return to the religion, but immediately try to reconnect with JW friends and family.
 Not return to the religion and not try to re-establish JW relationships - "they've burnt their bridges."
 Unsure at this time, but would consider my options for the future.


View Results







If you are an active JW, would you consider this change of policy an opportunity to:
 Leave in the future for any reason.
 Leave only if you determined the teachings were wrong or illogical.
 Leave only if you felt the Society's policies and practices were unchristian.


View Results







If you are an active JW, would you consider this change of policy an opportunity to:
 Reconnect with any close family members who have left the religion.
 Reconnect with any former JWs and friends who have left the religion.
 Reconnect only with friends and family who have not joined another religion.
 None of the above. Would personally continue to practice shunning regardless..


View Results







Do you agree with the Society's current practice of shunning?
 Completely agree
 Totally disagree
 Partially agree
 Would rather not say.


View Results



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← Branch closures and fire sales – a growing trend for the Society?
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1) →

88 Responses to If the Watchtower Discontinued Shunning


Newer Comments →

 alan viney says:

 April 29, 2012 at 2:40 am

Good survey and interesting
Reply
 

 Jibrael says:

 June 23, 2012 at 7:15 pm

I have no interest in being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses again. However, were it not for the shunning policy, I’d at least visit from time to time, to see everyone. As it is, though, I just can’t stomach being in the building, because of how much I have to keep my mouth shut or outright lie to get anyone to so much as say hello to me.
Reply
 

 Eddie says:

 September 9, 2012 at 2:03 pm

Many brothers have a rebellious attitude,not willing to listen to orgenization set by Jehovah on earth. It will be up to Jehovah onn the day of armagedon,if he wants those to live or die that day,for humbly listenig to his governing body on earth.
Reply
 

 Alan says:

 September 10, 2012 at 1:03 am

Eddie, how do you feel about witnesses shunning people that disassociate themselves because they genuinly believe that the organisation is not representing God?
 Do you think those ones who cannot go along with Watchtower doctrines any more, should be shunned by their friends and family for the rest of their lives?
Reply
 

 Imacountrygirl says:

 September 20, 2012 at 10:51 am

I sinned, I repented, I turned away from that badness and I am no longer committing that sin. I asked Jehovah God to forgive me, and he has. I am living a Christian life as Jesus instructed us to do. I practice my faith in Jehovah by loving HIM with my whole heart and with my whole soul and with my whole mind. I love my neighbor as myself. Matthew 22:40 says “On those two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets”. Because of Jehovah’s mercy, I have so much peace in my heart now that I can pray to Jehovah God directly and have a close and personal relationship with HIM for the first time in my life. If Jehovah God has forgiven me, how can an “earthly organization” not forgive me? Did I miss the scripture that gave an “earthly organization” more power and authority than Jehovah God himself? How did I ever let “God’s organization on earth” come between me and Jehovah? With Jehovah God’s help, that will never happen to me again.
Reply
 

 Anonymous says:

 September 27, 2012 at 6:32 am

You should ask your Jehovah to repent, too. He planned raping David’s wifes… in 2 Samuel 12
Reply
 

 exWitless says:

 October 23, 2012 at 4:50 pm

Spirituality should be a personal connection between a human being and whom ever one chooses to look to as God, Creator, Heavenly Father – Jehovah. I do not believe any other human being has the right to decide for me what my relationship should be. And actually, woe to me if I let anyone else define my deepest connection here. Religious groups should serve to enhance, not define my beliefs…because my beliefs are a part of who I am. I believe God wants me to know my own heart and mind and stand on my own two feet before him. I believe the most important element of faith is love…the golden rule. JWs break this one at heartbreaking levels all over the world. The opposite of love is not hate, it is to ignore…
Reply
 

 KtotheRAD (Konrad) says:

 October 24, 2012 at 2:43 am

I believe that Jehovah’s spirit has the power to deal with matters even in the congregation and I’m not so sure any more about the concept of a congregation or justice itself…
Reply
 

 StillHaveFaith says:

 December 9, 2012 at 10:42 pm

1.) The current disfellowshipping rules and regulations are false doctrines not supported by scripture, except for unrepentent ones who are practicing serious sins, and who have not responded to loving guidance. (NOT hateful arrogance from elders with judgmental “holier than thou” attitudes, who act more like vice detectives on the police force)
2.) Disfellowshipping is a control tactic, first used by the Catholic church in the form of “excommunication”, and still used today by other religious groups such as Amish, Scientology, and Mormons, and is a human rights and abuse issue in all religions that practice this in a cult-like manner for the purpose of control.
Reply
 
 Anonymous says:

 February 24, 2013 at 8:07 am

Dear StillHaveFaith
I like your strong scriptural views you have a good point
warm regards
 70wksofyrs
Reply
 
 

 Frank says:

 December 10, 2012 at 1:31 am

The Watchtower Society (and all its associates, and all the people involved) should be disfellowshipped for:
1) practicing religious deception for the sake of making profit
 2) spreading twisted personal interpretations of scripture,
 3) presumptuously promoting themselves ahead of Jesus Christ,
 4) pushing ahead & teaching “commands of men”,
5) abusing people’s trust,
 6) advocating policies that promote abuse of power,
 7) protecting paedophiles and defeating the ends of justice,
 8) expressing support for Adolf Hitler and the Nazis,
 9) damaging people’s faith and trust in God,
 10) tax evasion
 11) being part of the world they condemn
 12) hypocrisy – teaching one thing, practicing another
It all adds up to a huge case – over 100 years of bringing disrepute on the name of Jehovah, the very One they claim to worship!
Case settled
Reply
 

 problemaddict says:

 December 31, 2012 at 12:52 pm

I think if it was not for the policy to disfellowship anyone who had a view non congruent with the current “understanding” of something, I would have no issue with continuing as a JW. It would be the humble and correct choice. Not only will this control mechanism NEVER be removed, but it will in my belief continue to be abused more and more.
Reply
 

 OnlySane1Left says:

 January 8, 2013 at 7:26 pm

My parents shunned me for 12 years when I left the organization. They missed out on their grandchild’s growing years. Then my folks, for reasons unknown to me, came around like nothing had ever happened. We have a decent relationship now. We share a meal every now and then; exchange emails, etc. My folks continue to worship faithfully as JWs and it makes them happy; I continue my own spiritual journey as I see fit. I don’t see the problem, and I don’t understand why the governing body would want it any different than each of us making the “choice” that Jehovah provided to us individually. My parents are happy with their choice and I leave them alone; and I’m happy with my choice and they let that be. All is well, finally.
Reply
 

 alan says:

 January 9, 2013 at 2:40 am

It’s very simple. The gov body realize that anyone who has left the organisation has left for a reason. They do not want that person telling others why they left, in case that person leaves as well. So they instigate the shunning process, which kept your parents away from you for 12 years. It’s good you now communicate, but you are one of the lucky ones. Others completely cut of all communication with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one for the rest of their life.
Reply
 

 ZTS says:

 January 12, 2013 at 6:22 am

I disagree with the statement that JWs or supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. You’ll recall they were interned in concentration camps duing the Nazis’ tenure.
Reply
 

 ed g says:

 January 17, 2013 at 1:12 pm

If they don’t want anything from a disfellowshipped person, why is it in the shepherding book that their testimony could be enough to make a judicial committee? I don’t get it…
Reply
 

 Peter says:

 January 19, 2013 at 11:26 am

The Bible teaching is to disassociate with people that
 and there is a list.
Since Jehovah’s Witnesses Follow bible counsel and practice, they dis fellowship.
This step is not taken lightly, there are many meetings with the person before that.
Jehovah’s Witnesses Love their bros and sis, they are not happy when one in our family gets counseled and that is what that is all about, the purpose is to get the brother back.
Reply
 
 70wksofyrs says:

 February 24, 2013 at 9:50 am

I am sorry Peter I do not agree that is the case. jw.org states
“Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again”
Rejecting improper conduct is a matter of a man’s opinion not God’s in as far as a judicial committee is concerned. Raising question’s is not improper conduct my brother, it states on pages 8 and 9 paragrph 3 and 4 of the Bible Teach Book
“Think about the question on the cover of this book, the questions raised in the preface, or those at the beginning of this chapter. These are some of the most important questions you can ask. Yet, many people have given up trying to find the answers. Why? Does the Bible have the answers? Some feel that its answers are too hard to understand. Others worry that asking questions could lead to shame or embarrassment. And some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers. What about you?
4 Very likely you are interested in getting answers to life’s big questions. No doubt you sometimes wonder: ‘What is the purpose of life? Is this life all there is? What is God really like?’ It is good to ask such questions, and it is important that you do not give up until you find satisfying, reliable answers. The famous teacher Jesus Christ said: “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you.”—Matthew 7:7.”
The conclusion, Peter, if one keep’s asking this will lead to disfellowshipping, not kind or loving but hypocrisy my brother.
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 February 24, 2013 at 3:32 pm

RE: “It is good to ask such questions, and it is important that you do not give up until you find satisfying, reliable answers. The famous teacher Jesus Christ said: “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you.”—Matthew 7:7.”
AMEN BROTHER!!!! [SMILE]
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 John Hoyle says:

 January 19, 2013 at 1:04 pm

The Bible admonition is to avoid “fornicators, idolaters, and evil doers,” not those who choose to ask questions, take issue with doctrinal teachings or policies, or those who simply choose not to associate any longer for personal reasons.
The Watchtower has expanded the shunning rules to those who simply disassociate themselves. This is often extended to those who are “marked” or “reproved.” It is also applied even to those who have studied with family or friends but then chose not to convert and become active JWs.
It seems like the Watchtower spends more time disfellowshipping and marking members than they do in actually knocking on doors looking for potential converts. In fact, it has been reported that the two largest groups of JWs being disfellowshipped are baptized children (even as young as 9 years old) and spouses of JWs who initially converted but no longer believe. Those two large categories, being who they are, certainly “contribute to family harmony” – not! – and are divisive and destructive on several levels.
One former brother wrote me and related how he “simply could not believe the fairy tales any longer and wanted out” and DA’d himself. A week later, at the urging of the elders, his wife of 20 years filed for divorce. Where is it in the Bible that elders should encourage a wife to leave her husband? So much for your “Jehovah’s Witnesses follow bible counsel…”
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 Lise says:

 January 29, 2013 at 12:06 am

I don’t know if me and my husband are the norm for leaving but we both just felt the congregations have changed so much over the years as in “cold” and not “loving” we had enough and we quit cold turkey so to speak; when our children were very young . Yes we are shunned why who knows.
 They shunned my little child years ago who said hello to a sister who had just happened to be walking by in a grocery store parking lot that was cruel to my child who was a innocent child.
 It was a witness given none the less a negative one.
My now grown child never forgot how cruel this JW was to them, they a little child and to this day they dislike JW and refuse to even talk to them at the door. Sometimes I think that JW can give a very bad witness.
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 70wksofyrs says:

 February 23, 2013 at 6:09 pm

What are my views? I have been “disciplined” more times than I care to discuss at this point. By “imperfect men” for simply expressing my views. Am I going to stop expressing them? Do I have a new avenue to participate and answer? Anyone care to comment feel free.
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 February 24, 2013 at 1:40 am

I have only posted a few comments thus far, but I want to encourage you to rely on your own research, and if it does not match up to the BIBLE, Jehovah gave us a brain for logical reasoning, and He and His Son have both commanded us not to follow the “doctrines of men”. I discovered a great website by an active witness who writes excellent articles comparing Governing Body doctrines with the Scriptures. I recently read an article there which applies to Daniels Prophecies: http://meletivivlon.com/2012/10/16/daniel-and-the-1290-and-1335-days/
 He created a humorous imaginary conversation with the future resurrected Daniel. I have found all of the articles and comments posted there to be very revealing. If you want to avoid being disfellowshipped, you really have no choice but to keep your thoughts and questions to yourself while you are conversing with others at the Kingdom Hall. They don’t even realize it but they have been indoctrinated through repetition and fear tactics to believe that anyone who asks questions is an “apostate”, while they can NOT see the apostacy that is coming from the Governing Body!!!
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 Anonymous says:

 February 24, 2013 at 8:04 am

Dear StillHaveFaith,
Thank you so much for your lovely comment it’s nice to meet you
 Warm regards
 70wksofyrs xxx
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 70wksofyrs says:

 February 24, 2013 at 9:29 am

Thanks for the website link. Very interesting.
StillHaveFaith you made a point
 >>Jehovah gave us a brain for logical reasoning<>You must also remember that their aim is not JUST to help you study the Bible, but to teach you their interpretation of it<>hateful arrogance from elders with judgmental “holier than thou” attitudes, who act more like vice detectives on the police force<>If you want to avoid being disfellowshipped, you really have no choice but to keep your thoughts and questions to yourself while you are conversing with others at the Kingdom Hall<<
My close friends and family have been saying the same for years to no avail. If I can have a new avenue to express myself that advice would be easier to follow.
By the way its nice to know you still have faith in the Bible Jehovah and Jesus. Me too xx
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 February 24, 2013 at 3:21 pm

Hello Brother,
Regarding my statement “If you want to avoid being disfellowshipped, you really have no choice but to keep your thoughts and questions to yourself while you are conversing with others at the Kingdom Hall”, and your response:
“My close friends and family have been saying the same for years to no avail. If I can have a new avenue to express myself that advice would be easier to follow.”
I did not mean to be “criticizing” you in any way. Once we discover that some (not all) of the things we were taught by the WTBTS are “doctrines of men” which are not supported by the scriptures that Jehovah gave us as our “Guide Book”, we naturally want to correct our own wrong thinking, and then share our newfound understanding with other JWs. The ever prevailing problem is that as long as the Governing Body maintains their iron grip on everyone, the fear of being disfellowshipped prevents them from even considering that “something is wrong”, and then because they actually have come to BELIEVE that the GB is “Jehovah’s direct channel of communication”, they think that they are “doing the right thing” by turning you in for “questioning Jehovah’s faithful and discreet slave”. So you have to protect yourself from this unfair and unchristian method of disfellowshipping, if it is going to cause you harm, especially within your own family. If your efforts to reach your friends at the KH are “to no avail”, join the club because that is what so many others are reporting in their posts online. It becomes a matter of “casting your pearls before swine”, not that JWs are “swine” of course not, but just that most of them do not have the ability to appreciate your newfound “pearls” of biblical reasoning and discernment, so they turn against you like an unreasoning animal. They incorrectly BELIEVE that “since we learned all of this wonderful information about Jehovah’s Kingdom from the WTBTS, then EVERYTHING else that they have been teaching us must also be true.”
Disfellowshipping control methods have caused so much harm to so many thousands of people, resulting in many of them abandoning their faith in Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ. The beginning of my own journey of discovery was when I “coincidentally” ended up on an exJW website reading accounts of disfellowshipping “horror stories”, which I had never had any intention of doing. But the most shocking and disheartening realization of this horrible situation, is that many of these “lost sheep” have lost their FAITH. So many people have lost entire families, their financial stability, and some even their sanity, but what is really the greatest loss for many is their FAITH. However, what I have experienced is that “Jehovah’s arm is not too short that it cannot reach”!!! Jehovah does sustain us when we are persecuted for “preaching the truth” about doctrines of men, but we must also be “as cautious as serpents”, so as not to allow elders or anyone else to “shipwreck our FAITH”. It is a shame that they are not taking their own advice from this Watchtower article:
“How will you respond when pointed statements are made about false religious teachings and corrupt practices? Will you immediately condemn the person or organization making the exposé? Do you feel it is all right to teach lies and misrepresent God’s Word, but wrong to expose the error? Contrary to what some may think, it is not unkind and unloving to lay bare falsehood and corruption.” (Watchtower, March 1, 1966)
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 John says:

 April 29, 2013 at 2:43 pm

You need to admit the governing body is the faithful and discreet slave providing meat in due season as spiritual food for the sheep. No other church even preaches this parable as literal, which proves its true.
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 70wksofyrs says:

 February 25, 2013 at 12:09 am

Hey StillHaveFaith
 I most certainly did not take your comment as critisism. My blogging skills are rank at the moment… I need to aquire better skills…the post went wrong so you didn’t get the “full picture”(they say that too ha ha you gotta laugh)…all the well meaning cousel to shut up in the Hall failed.
It’s too late…we are “back rowed” convicted of reviling………two from our family???? Along with a few fornicators. Actually we have a nice little club on a Sunday after meeting whilst the others are doorknocking
I am glad you still have faith brother….I am actually a sister. I have a question……my youngest thinks all elders are hypocrites and wants to kill certain local ones…..so reasonably safe I suppose……My eldest though is in a different District thinking just the circuit was corrupt….and now wants to climb the animal farm ladder at Bethel to be a more equal pig than the rest of us, I suppose the selfish desire of a “haughty spirit” is the driving force behind that “goal”………….Finally here is my question StillHaveFaith…..How can I reach and save my eldest?
My eldest has made similiar comments to you…………on some level I suppose I am hoping you are my eldest…….and when you ring me on the way to work this morning “to talk to me about necessary business” you will reveal all……..but that’s really pushing faith toooooooo much isn’t it. So in your view brother one step at a time….How can I reach my eldest?
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 February 25, 2013 at 5:23 pm

OOPs I just now read this post so my response to your other post might sound a bit confusing. I have a better picture of your situation now.
Re: “It’s too late…we are “back rowed” convicted of reviling………two from our family???? Along with a few fornicators. Actually we have a nice little club on a Sunday after meeting whilst the others are doorknocking”
I sat in the “Back Row” myself for five years after choosing to be disfellowshipped. It is a long story, but the Presiding Overseer was yelling at me on the phone at my place of business right in front of a line of customers, demanding that I attend another judicial committee meeting immediately or else he was going to announce that I was disfellowshipped at the next meeting. I was very emotionally distraught at how he was treating me and crying right in front of all these people didn’t help the situation, so I just said “GO AHEAD” and hung up the phone. This must sound crazy to you, but that actually turned out to be the best thing for me, and I was so relieved of all of the pressures of being a JW, that I went to the meetings for another 5 years without ever becoming interested in getting re-instated. I love Jehovah and Jesus but I realized that I could not cope with being an official JW anymore.
I am glad that you have some good company in the back row. It may actually be easier for those with the “Scarlet Letter” to get re-instated than it will be for you, since the GB is really cracking down on anyone who disagrees with anything, and it doesn’t seem to matter to them if you are in the right or not.
“But we know that all things work towards the good of those who know God and are called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28
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 70wksofyrs says:

 February 25, 2013 at 12:32 am

Cedars
 Thanks so much for this site, I will check out other links soon. But you know “food at the proper time” and all that. Glad you have connected with your DFd family well done brother. I hope my eldest comes after me soon….
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 70wksofyrs says:

 February 25, 2013 at 11:50 am

Dear Brother Elder,
Low and behold when my eldest disobediently rang me this morning it was not you……. surprise… surprise… However as I am not trained in discresion, I may have dropped the ball.
Interesting point when you stated…..
“How will you respond when pointed statements are made about false religious teachings and corrupt practices? Will you immediately condemn the person or organization making the exposé? Do you feel it is all right to teach lies and misrepresent God’s Word, but wrong to expose the error? Contrary to what some may think, it is not unkind and unloving to lay bare falsehood and corruption.” (Watchtower, March 1, 1966)
So many humble loving elders, in my District and my eldest child’s District have been a wonderful support, some of whom risked being removed. Of course just as the bullied turns into the bully many of our dear elders are suffering from emotional abuse and bullying others is just a symptom. However those who are humble will recieve my true and honest forgiveness.
Some of you are so tired and work so hard you just don’t have time to read the watchtowers every week nevermind, follow autocracy and research 1966 watchtowers.
I care about others I really do, but please brother elder please help me save my eldest, her bubble has burst… and she wont come back to this district….what does it say in your brown elders book that the society should do with congregation hoppers?
Warm christian love please answer me I am begging
 Your sister
 70wksofyrs
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 February 25, 2013 at 4:36 pm

Hello Sister,
 I am NOT an elder, but just a female Christian. It sounds like you are desperately seeking advice regarding your eldest child, and of course I don’t have any official elder information regarding “congregation hoppers” to refer to, but I do have my own past experience. In the past when I experienced traumatic and dissapointing situations in my own congregation, I attended meetings in my best friend’s congregation. I needed the support of my girlfriend and her family. It turned out later that her entire family of 7 people eventually quit being Witnesses because of serious problems in their congregation elders. (We all have our “problems with elders” stories don’t we?) However, as you said, there are so many kind and loving elders as well. I am wondering if you misunderstood my intention regarding the 1966 Watchtower quote. This was posted on a JW website regarding the subject of Disfellowshipping of those who have questions and don’t accept every single teaching of the WTBTS as “fact”, unfairly catogorized as “apostates”. I found this quote through online research, which I find very helpful to my own questions, since I am benefitting from the experience and knowledge of others. As you know “technically” we are “allowed” to have any thoughts or questions regarding official Governing Body teachings, so if you tell anyone that you are doing any online research outside of the official WTBTS websites, you are at risk of being disfellowshipped. This is my own personal opinion, but I have come to the conclusion that I have to seek out further understanding of what the scriptures actually teach, and I personally believe that Disfellowshipping is a control fear tactic, that is not supported by the scriptures in their full context.
I don’t know what your eldest child is having problems with, but if they feel more comfortable attending meetings at another congregation, and if that helps them it could be beneficial. But whatever the problems are, I have found that PRAYING TO JEHOVAH FOR HELP is the best solution. The help may or may not come in the form of assistance from one of the elders, but whatever guidance that JEHOVAH sends to you is always superior to human opinions and I have seen that Jehovah’s opinion can be contrary to what elders or the WTBTS claims is “Jehovah’s direction”. The elders are only human, and cannot figure out the solutions to everyone’s complicated problems, but JEHOVAH can. The hardest part is getting the FEAR out of your mind. “For God has given us not a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7
I sense your stress and you have my compassion. Whatever is “wrong” it may take a long time to come to a place of “answers”, so in the meantime we have prayer to Jehovah in Jesus name through his sacrafice: “Surely he has borne our grief and carried our sorrows” Isaiah 53:4
My own daughter was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, however ended up entirely rejecting what she learned from the Bible, and took a job as a bartender, whereby she ended up becoming an alcoholic like her father. She lived that “Drugs Sex Rock and Roll” lifestyle for 20 years before she finally got sober, and I heard the ambulance sirens every night, woke up and PRAYED that she would survive her bad decisions, which thankfully she did. She is a “born again Christian” now, although she is receptive to what I share with her regarding the Trinity and Hellfire, etc. so she does not accept these false religious doctrines. And since my grandson is learning about Jesus from their church, I am able to share the Bible with him and teach him about Jesus’ Father, Jehovah. I know he is listening because he tells everyone that his “Grandma hates Santa Clause and Halloween”. SMILE
I have found that what my dad taught me is true: “You get more flies with honey than with you-know-what”. She is on her own “spiritual path” and I cannot control what she thinks or believes, but only share the scriptures with her, which I am grateful for. I have also learned to be grateful for what her church has done for her and her child. I have slowly but surely learned to let go of my own “judmentalism” which came from my JW background, and Trust in Jehovah to lead all of us according to His Will. My job as a mother and grandmother is to put my Faith in HIM and trust his deliverance, even though it seems to take a very long time. That saying “God moves in mysterious ways his wonders to perform” comes from a very old hymn (1700’s), and I have seen that this is true. Without knowing your situation, I just hope that what I have written will benefit you, so please forgive me if I have said anything that upsets you, or that you do not agree with. [Feel free to disagree, that is your right!]
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 70wksofyrs says:

 February 25, 2013 at 5:40 pm

StillHaveFaith,
 I have sent a reply to your husband to this very lovely reply. If you are British and still up at this hour 1240am, please get some rest my dear sister.
I will be typing away all night probaly
 I love your family dearly
 agape
 xxx
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 mags says:

 April 5, 2013 at 2:24 pm

It is so very true! I expressed my doubts and had questions that’s all wrong I have done….now am being shunned for doing the things they and the bible encourages to do. So who is here wrong
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 alanv says:

 April 5, 2013 at 2:30 pm

I cant remember where at the moment, but the society have said just believing something different from the governing body, makes a person an apostate. No scripture to back it up of course, just like there is no scripture that says you should be shunned if you no longer wish to be a witness, and you understandably tell those that ask why you have left.
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 Anonymous says:

 April 6, 2013 at 1:33 pm

“It is so very true! I expressed my doubts and had questions that’s all wrong I have done….now am being shunned for doing the things they and the bible encourages to do. So who is here wrong”
Grab a cookie and cup of coffee and have a seat with the many of us! (- :
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 CAMOKO says:

 April 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm

yes bro Eddie… they don’t get in their brain that JHWH, in these last days (1914 onward), has decided (now) to speak to mankind thru “a son”, namely THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY represented by his hiden slaves. jeeeeeh! I mean DISCRET SLAVES whom Him, JHWH, will come to appoint as heirs and masters of his domestics and belongings right before the tribulation!!!!. And then JHWH will also use the slaves to “make” the new things like turning this earth into a Paradise . Bro Eddie, these apostates need to read Hebrews 1:2 . And also, since them only were given the authority to become JHWH’s SONS because they receivED and exercisED Faith in Jesus [John 1:12] (what a long life!!!) they are rightfully put in charge as the last warning to mankind…
Please you apostates, understand and put it in your mind, as Bro Eddie does, that there is NO OTHER NAME, beside the Watchtower OrgEnization (spelling from Bro Eddie) BY WITCH YOU ARE/WILL BE SAVE… Indeed Acts 4:12 talks about this!!!!!!! Why don’t you get it folks!!!!!!??????
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 c says:

 April 10, 2013 at 12:25 am


Peter
 The Bible teaching is to disassociate with people that
 and there is a list.
 Since Jehovah’s Witnesses Follow bible counsel and practice, they dis fellowship.
 This step is not taken lightly, there are many meetings with the person before that.
 Jehovah’s Witnesses Love their bros and sis, they are not happy when one in our family gets counseled and that is what that is all about, the purpose is to get the brother back.
You say that this step is not taken lightly, there are many meetings with this person before this happens, not true, I was a learning bible student that smoked, was told in the begining don’t even worrie about smoking right now, after some time my teacher told me that I need to quit, months went by , I was truely trying to quit going 2 wk spans with out having smoked. My teacher set up for me to study with an elder, she said it would be good for him and me, little did I know she was setting me up so he could speak to me about my smoking. The Sun. and Wed. before I thought people were avoiding me some of the older men that always smiled at me were now looking at me angerly the women would look the other way, or not even speak to me the next Sun. at the meeting it was so clear to me that I was being shunned, I could not believe it, this is fruit of the spirit LOVE I have not been back if it had not been for this I would still be attending, I’m so thankful for sites like this to help me see and understand. I was heart broken, doing much better now.
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 alanv says:

 April 10, 2013 at 12:35 am

There is only love shown to ones who completely follow what the gov body tell them. Once you disagree with anything, you will be treated differently, and if witnesses ask you why you disagree with something and you tell them, you will very likely be shunned and ultimately disfellowshipped. The love is totally conditional.
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 your slave girl says:

 April 13, 2013 at 1:45 pm

I believe there should be a status of limitation. If someone is shunned
 and they decide that they don’t want to be a Jehovah’s witness any more or they decide to leave by themselves and become atheists or joint any other religion if after two (2) years they don’t want to return they are free to go . Active Jehovah’s witnesses should apply “You should love you neighbor as yourself. It is not acceptable to shun especially family members for life. The God our Master Jesus revealed is not cruel. Anything else comes from satan and the scribes and pharisees. After all we tell other people it is O.K. to change their religion. Why not apply it to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
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 alanv says:

 April 13, 2013 at 1:53 pm

For a start it is totally unscriptual to shun someone simply because they have left the religion, and then if someone asks them why they have left and they tell them they are then shunned.
 The society tell people to check their religion carefully and ask questions, then when JWs do it to their own religion they are classed as being very spiritually immature.
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 April 14, 2013 at 10:31 am

Articles Re: Disfellowshipping:
Disfellowshipping and Shunning– Incorrect Doctrine
http://jehovah.net.au/incorrect-doctrine/disfellowshipping-and-shunning
Myths of Disfellowshipping:
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/08/the-myths-of-disfellowshipping/
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Shunning:
http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html
Repression of Thought:
http://jwreform.org/repression.html
Disfellowshipping and Shunning”
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php
Many articles regarding Disfellowshipping Issues:
http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_finder&view=search&Itemid=676&q=Disfellowshipping
Disfellowshipping Hurts:
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/12/disfellowshipping-hurts/
Disfellowshipping (Excommunication) – A Biblical Consideration and Refutation of Jehovah’s Witness Doctrine
http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92:disfellowshipping-excommunication&catid=11:bible&Itemid=698
Institutionally Enforced Shunning
http://jwreform.org/shunning.html
Jehovah’s Witnesses, Shunning and Human Rights
http://watchtowershunning.blogspot.com/
 Jehovah’s Witnesses and Shunning
http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html
Raymond Franz [from In Search of Christian Freedom]
http://chretien.et.homo.free.fr/fichiers/rl_rf_2002_en.pdf
What Happened At The World Headquarters Of Jehovah’s Witnesses In The Spring Of 1980?
http://www.freeminds.org/history/whathapp.htm
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 thenextpage says:

 April 26, 2013 at 4:56 pm

I haven’t read through the entire list of comments on this page, so if I express a point that has already been shared, please forgive me. I’ve enjoyed reading these comments, and appreciate people taking the time to explore this serious issue which has a life-changing effect on so many. My family has been literally torn apart and impacted forever due to JW practices.
It is my perspective that shunning within the organization will not go away, probably for many reasons. I feel as though the organization is locked into this practice, and can’t change it even if they want to. Can you imagine the feeling that you would have as a practicing witness to learn that it is now ok for families to associate with their disfellowshipped family members? What if you are one of the many witnesses who have severed family relationships that are beyond repair (which I believe is the case for many active witnesses)? This would undoubtedly cause anger in many individuals who have been victims of this practice. I believe that would result in many lost followers. It would also plant a seed of doubt in many witnesses.
With that said, this seems clear to me: the society changing its laws on disfellowshipping = loss of members = loss of organization credibility and integrity.
So, as sad as it makes me to realize this, I feel that shunning is here to stay whether everyone likes it or not.
I wish for nothing more than for this damaging manipulation to end.
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 April 26, 2013 at 5:53 pm

RE: Comment by thenextpage (above)
You have made valid and logical points that brings us to the conclusion that “things will never change” regarding this and other WTBTS issues that have damaged so many JWs. But at least this website and others are making it known that this is WRONG and many exJWs as well as active JWs have come to realize the truth about Disfellowshipping and many other problems. The Governing Body has set itself up as a False Prophet and the Evil Slave that is “beating the fellow slaves”. They will be judged when Jesus Christ arrives in His Second Coming. (“Parousia” does not mean “invisible presence” in Greek, but instead the accurate translation is of “arriving” when “every eye shall see him”)
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 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 11:01 am

“With that said, this seems clear to me: the society changing its laws on disfellowshipping = loss of members = loss of organization credibility and integrity.”
Hahahaha!
I’m sorry but that was the pick me up that I really needed today!
(- :
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 StillHaveFaith says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:21 pm

John, Excuse me please, but your comment demonstrates that you have apparently been programmed by the WTBTS to believe that everyone who loses their confidence in the Society starts “drinking, drugging, and having sex with prostitutes”. According to reliable sources from those who have spent many years at Bethel or as Elders etc, there is a lot of drinking going on within Jehovah’s Witnesses. Rutherford himself was an alcoholic and encouraged alcohol consumption at Bethel, a questionable tradition that continues to the present day. I do not drink alcohol or use any drugs whatsoever (not even aspirin or antibiotics), so who is more likely to be driven to drink? Active JWs or those who have left? As for the “prostitution” issue, since I am divorced and single, I have not engaged in sex for the past 20 years because that is against God’s Laws, which I still respect. I now have a stronger faith in Jehovah and His Son, much more so than I ever did when I was an active Witness.
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 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:26 pm

StillHaveFaith April 30, 2013 at 12:21 pm
” John, Excuse me please, but your comment demonstrates that you have apparently been programmed by the WTBTS to believe that everyone who loses their confidence in the Society starts “drinking, drugging, and having sex with prostitutes”. According to reliable sources from those who have spent many years at Bethel or as Elders etc, there is a lot of drinking going on within Jehovah’s Witnesses. Rutherford himself was an alcoholic and encouraged alcohol consumption at Bethel, a questionable tradition that continues to the present day. I do not drink alcohol or use any drugs whatsoever (not even aspirin or antibiotics), so who is more likely to be driven to drink? Active JWs or those who have left? As for the “prostitution” issue, since I am divorced and single, I have not engaged in sex for the past 20 years because that is against God’s Laws, which I still respect. I now have a stronger faith in Jehovah and His Son, much more so than I ever did when I was an active Witness.”
Thank You!
 I’ll put my life and lifestyle up against any and frankly many that I know of at the Kingdom Hall. I am clean and I live clean according to Jehovah’s standards to the best of my imperfect ability as the miserable and worthless slug that I am!
Reply
 

 thenextpage says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm

Duly noted John. Clearly you are an active and pure JW, and adhere to their set laws. But wait.. isn’t surfing on a pagan website which challenges JW laws (such as this one) banned by the WTS? I believe it’s even grounds for disfellowshipping.. OOOOHH!! John you’re going to be in so much trouble for contaminating your pure righteous self with us evildoers!
Reply
 

 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:36 pm

John April 30, 2013 at 11:50 am
“Would you care to explain why and how this was a “pick-me-up”. I’m sure you need one every day having dismissed God’s True Organisation from your life, and frequently turn to drink, drugs and prostitution for your relief.”
Sorry to burst your bubble there Spanky but I am the happiest and most peaceful, content and fulfilled that I have ever been in my entire adult life!
I would think that the Conti incident, the multitude of litigations, the indictments and criminal investigations, hearings and $3 Billion lawsuit in Australia as well as the many websites and forums such as this and: JWleaks.org or JWfacts.com which have properly informed people as to the goings on within that organization for so long might have something to do with “image and credibility” I know for a fact that JW’s are having a brutal time out in service and at the door so don’t tell me you aren’t hearing this stuff every day! I know you are! I hear it and I’m not even in the organization anymore and I still do have close connections to the organization.
Reply
 

 John says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm

It is a testing time for faith, to be sure, but it is a sign of sheep and goats being separated, so this is why I count time here is the hope of winning back lost sheep to Jehovah
Reply
 


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← Branch closures and fire sales – a growing trend for the Society?
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1) →

If the Watchtower Discontinued Shunning
Posted on April 28, 2012

A Mini-Survey
Jehovah’s Witnesses have used the practice of “shunning” since the early 1940s to punish disfellowshipped former members by denying them contact with their believing friends and family members. Every decade since then the Watchtower has expanded the punishment to include other persons besides “fornicators” and “evil doers.” Even those who have not been formally disfellowshipped or disassociated from their congregations can now find themselves shunned for a vastly expanded number of reasons – or in some cases for no particular reason at all.
This “mini-survey” asks what course you might take if the Watchtower announced an official end to the practice of shunning. How would you react or change your lifestyle? Please read the questions below and select the answer that best represents what you’d do. As always, we encourage you to comment on this poll and share your thoughts on the subject.










If currently considered to be an active JW, would you:
 Remain active and continue on as before.
 Stop going to meetings and field service, but continue to identify yourself as a JW.
 Disassociate and leave the Witnesses knowing that your family relationships would not be affected.
 Unsure at this time, but would appreciate having the options.


View Results







If you are a disfellowshipped or disassociated former JW, would you:
 Immediately return to the organization.
 Not return to the religion, but immediately try to reconnect with JW friends and family.
 Not return to the religion and not try to re-establish JW relationships - "they've burnt their bridges."
 Unsure at this time, but would consider my options for the future.


View Results







If you are an active JW, would you consider this change of policy an opportunity to:
 Leave in the future for any reason.
 Leave only if you determined the teachings were wrong or illogical.
 Leave only if you felt the Society's policies and practices were unchristian.


View Results







If you are an active JW, would you consider this change of policy an opportunity to:
 Reconnect with any close family members who have left the religion.
 Reconnect with any former JWs and friends who have left the religion.
 Reconnect only with friends and family who have not joined another religion.
 None of the above. Would personally continue to practice shunning regardless..


View Results







Do you agree with the Society's current practice of shunning?
 Completely agree
 Totally disagree
 Partially agree
 Would rather not say.


View Results



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← Branch closures and fire sales – a growing trend for the Society?
Under the microscope – the Watch Tower Society’s claims to divine direction (part 1) →

88 Responses to If the Watchtower Discontinued Shunning

← Older Comments

 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm

I think you are in for some surprises…Jehovah is firmly in control of his sheep and his sheep know him! You need to just go about your business…There will be many surprises soon if people don’t work on making the personal changes they need to make to make themselves! themselves! acceptable to Jehovah and his Kingdom!
 And let all the other matters take care of themselves by means of his spirit!
Reply
 
 Anonymous says:

 June 24, 2013 at 9:41 am

A true copout modern day hide behind a non profit titled organization using free labor and donations to try and further bolster their billion dollar a year propaganda machine. 9 years in a association with the united nations and only removed themselves because of all the letters written by confused JW’S to the united nations only to lie and say we needed it in order to gain access to the UN library for research? Come on are you kidding me? Anyone can access the UN library period. Please don’t insult us clear thinking minded people who see this cult for what it really is.
Reply
 
 

 thenextpage says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:48 pm

John, I sincerely hope that you someday free yourself of this dangerous and manipulative group of false prophets. You have my best wishes.
But if you don’t, and you still strive at luring in new victims; try and refrain from calling them worthless slugs. It won’t work in your favor.
Reply
 

 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:55 pm

” I count time spent on here as publishing, and I’m not alone.”
I dare John to go to his Elders and tell them that he was “publishing” on one of the biggest and most notorious, hated of all “apostate” websites and wants to count the time.
 I’d spend my last Dollar to be there when he did and to hear his Disfellowshipping anouncement! Not that I would find any pleasure in such a brutal travesty but I would want to see it to believe it…
Reply
 

 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm

“Conrad, please can you let me know what these changes are, and how I can do all can simultaneously follow all three of your apparently contradictory prescriptions”
I have to tell you what the fruits of the spirit are? And what Jehovah’s commands are? Cedars has restrictions about preaching on this forum or imposing religious opinions and for good reason so I can’t be detailed about discussing such things here but you already know.
Reply
 

 KtotheRad "Konrad" says:

 April 30, 2013 at 1:03 pm

“Theocratic Warfare” is an evil machination of Satan and JF Rutherford. Did any of the Prophets or first century Christians presume to take on any battles or “warfare” themselves or did Jehovah always defend them himself to display his power and demonstrate who they were representing? That in itself should tell you a lot!
Reply
 

 John says:

 April 30, 2013 at 1:43 pm

“Did any of the first century Christians presume to take on any battles or themselves or did Jehovah always defend them” No he did not defend, he allowed their enemies to smite them down, in fact. And yes they did, for example Peter drew parallels between the flood and baptism, a clear example of theocratic warfare. Please do not bandy around terms such as evil, they are counter-productive.
Reply
 

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 May 1, 2013 at 10:11 am

I believe you are mistaken and this is not a debate forum. Jesus made a very strong point at his time of capture when Peter drew the sword and cut off the ear of the guard who was about to take him captive. Jehovah defends those who and when he decides to do so to HIS glory and/as he did with the prophets of old…There is no “Bandy” as the behavior bears out the prophecy. I ttold you what you need to do so why do you keep on with me? Are you going to change some reality if you persist with me long enough? Like a child who pesters the parent long enough they will change their mind?
Reply
 

 StillHaveFaith says:

 May 2, 2013 at 12:19 pm

Dear John,
In re-reading my post (above) in response to your previous comments, I just realized that I engaged in “self-righteous” defense of myself, as well as others who have left the WTBTS. It was an automatic “knee jerk”-defensive-mechanism-reaction, and I wish to apologize because the self righteous aspect of being a JW greatly bothered me when I was an active member. No one is “perfect” even though we are all trying to follow our perfect example of Jesus Christ, the only perfect man who ever lived (excluding Adam who was created perfect but was deceived by Satan). And it is only through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice that we can have our sins forgiven.
John, everyone here and elsewhere who comments is from a background with JWs that has caused them great pain thus resulting in anger. It is too easy for all of us to forget that we were once “zealous defenders of the WTBTS” ourselves, and that we had also placed our confidence in the GB before we finally came to realize that there were serious problems and we needed to find answers by seeking the Truth. We who have left do not all have the same exact experiences but many of them are similar, and often the direct result of non-scriptural “doctrines of men” created by the GB, starting with Rutherford’s 25 year dictatorship over JWs.
So John I do apologize for my “self righteous” response to your (previous) comment, and I do understand where you are coming from, since I was once there myself. Regarding the “lost and scattered sheep”, this is described in Ezekiel 34th chapter, and places the blame squarely on the shoulders of the “shepherds”. I also should have posted the following evidence regarding Rutherford’s alcoholism when I made my previous comment regarding that. I was truly shocked when I read these letters written by dedicated men serving at Bethel:
Letter: Olin Moyle [attorney] to JF Rutherford 1939
http://www.jwfacts.com/images/Moyles-letter-to-Rutherford.pdf
Letter from WF Salter to JF Rutherford 1937
http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/walter-salters-letter-to-j-f.html
And I was shocked when I read about 2 mansions built by Rutherford for what he claimed was the “expected arrival of ressurected prophets”:
Beth Sarim -House of the Princes
http://www.dannyhaszard.com/armageddonmuseum/BethSarim.htm
Beth San – House of Security
http://www.dannyhaszard.com/armageddonmuseum/bethshan.htm
And I was further shocked when I read how Rutherford gained total control over the WTBTS by using his legal knowledge to remove the board of directors and anyone else who supported them or Pastor Russell’s express directions in his will.
 How did J.F. Rutherford Succeed in Seizing Control of the Society against the Instructions of Pastor Russell? [immediately after Pastor Russell’s death]
 The passage below is quoted from the book, “Pastor Russell, Messenger of Millennial Hope,” pages 275-277. Supporting references can be found in this book.
http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2010/09/06/how-did-j-f-rutherford-succeed-in-taking-control-of-the-society-against-the-instructions-of-pastor-russell/
Reply
 
 John says:

 May 2, 2013 at 3:07 pm

Thank you for those links. I have seen an article on how dates were recalculated due to their being no year zero on one of those sites. It certainly has given me spiritual food for thought.
Reply
 
 

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 May 2, 2013 at 3:08 pm

john May 2, 2013 at 4:44 am
“If this is not a debate forum, there is no need to tell me I’m mistaken. I am always not trying to change reality, this is something I evidently have no intention of doing. You could easily tell me what religion you belong to without imposing your opinion on me. Or at least answer a quesion, I think you’re a Christadelphian, a brother in Christ when it comes to most of the doctrine laid down by the blessed Governing Body which is providing meat in due season to the Christian Congregation.”
I serve the most High Sovereign of the universe whose name is Jehovah and therefore by definition I suppose I am a Witness of Jehovah.
 Now, as so many Servants, Elders and Overseers and others have parrotted to me and others as they slammed tables and hastily threw chairs back or forward and other acts of aggression to attempt to seize or regain what they perceived as loss of power and control and as trained in that organization, “THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER!!!” (- :
Reply
 
 Biff says:

 June 10, 2013 at 11:29 am

Amazing that there is seldom, if ever … any confussion or discussion about the unshakeble basic Bible truths that Jehovah’s Witnesses stand for. ie
 1 Trinity is unreasonable and false,
 2 Dead do not live in an eternal Hellfire after dying,
 3 God authorized, designed and created all things,
 4 God has a plan to make the all wrong things right again someday.
 I am not a QUACK .. but am in complete agreement with the basic teachings of Jehovah’s Witnresses. However … as soon as policies, and doctrins are introduced, and enforced, that have little or no Bible based credibility, MOUNTIONS OF CONFUSION AND HURT RESULTS. Disfelowshipping is carried out by fellow imperfect humans.Disfellowshipping is a ‘strongarm tactic to ‘bully individuals to complete submission. As soon as imperfect men are given the authority to judge other humans, you have the perfect storm for anarchacy, pain, and in some cases corruption. These men DO NOT have some form of ‘Holy Fog’ helping them make decisions. It is time to disolve this ‘spriritual theocratic police force, and refer to the scriptures that say in very plain terms that ‘man cannot judge man without causing injury’. There are better ways to protect unsuspecting Witnesses from the negative influences of certain individuals who wish to disrupt the congregation.
Reply
 
 

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 June 11, 2013 at 10:47 am

Biff June 10, 2013 at 11:29 am
stated:
“Amazing that there is seldom, if ever … any confussion or discussion about the unshakeble basic Bible truths that Jehovah’s Witnesses”
1 Trinity is unreasonable and false,
 2 Dead do not live in an eternal Hellfire after dying,
 3 God authorized, designed and created all things,
 4 God has a plan to make the all wrong things right again someday.
Well, I was never really aware until I left the 100+ year old organization of how many others teach those same things since they are Bible based and not “Jehovah’s Witness” based as well as how many use Jehovah’s name! That includes the many Bible Students churches that we were told faded away out of existence due to “Lack of blessing and apostasy” after the purging and house cleaning in 1919 but in reality are still quite active around the world and have been in various forms ever since…
Reply
 

 Anonymous says:

 June 24, 2013 at 9:31 am

obviously uneducated as you can’t even spell or are willing to spell check. It’s a rebellion against WTBS not God or Jesus. READ John 14:6 and get on with your life instead of giving your life to a cult type mental Prison.
Reply
 

 StillHaveFaith says:

 June 24, 2013 at 4:30 pm

RE: Comments by Biff:
AMEN to everything you said here. I also am in agreement with the primary Bible based doctrines that Jehovah’s Witnesses teach. As you stated, Trinity and Hellfire doctrines are false. I have seriously researched over the years since I left in order to “separate the wheat from the chaff”, the wheat being the true teachings supported by the BIBLE, the chaff being the MANMADE added “doctrines of men” which “go beyond the things written” such as disfellowshipping rules and regulations, and the Governing Body’s claim to be a direct channel to Jehovah, which reminds me of growing up in the Catholic religion and being taught that the Pope is the “Vicar of Christ” and is therefore “infallible”… those not obeying the Pope’s every rule will “burn in hellfire for eternity”, which reminds me of continually being taught by JWs that anyone not in agreement with, or not following every single GB regulation, will be “destroyed at Armageddon” in eternal judgment, thereby having no hope of a resurrection. (after being disfellowshipped of course). I have continually prayed to Jehovah as to what is the REAL TRUTH, but I realize that it is my own responsibility to do the research in order to receive the understanding.
Here are a few revealing articles for anyone wishing to understand the “Invisible Presence of Christ” doctrine:
 Is Jesus Present or Yet To Come? [website established by ex-JW, disfellowshipped for simply doing independent Bible research and realizing that some WTBTS teachings were in conflict with the Bible]
http://www.nazarene-friends.org/pubs/coming.php
 A treatise on the Invisible Presence Doctrine
 of Bible Students and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
“At that time men will see the Son of Man
 coming in clouds with great power and glory.” – Mark 13:26
©Copyright 1998 – Andy Weeks
“Parousia” and the Days of Noah [website hosted by active JW]
http://meletivivlon.com/2013/06/12/parousia-and-the-days-of-noah/
 Here is an article written by Pastor Russell which finally put it all into perspective for me: C.T. Russell Hits Too Close to Home
http://meletivivlon.com/2013/05/27/c-t-russell-hits-too-close-to-home/
 In my ongoing “journey of progressive revelation”, I have researched on many websites and have been gradually emerging from a state of confusion by reading hundreds of various articles, and comparing this information to WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY TEACHES.
“Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU. . .[Matthew 7:7] NWT
Reply
 

 StillHaveFaith says:

 June 24, 2013 at 4:38 pm

Respectfully responding to your comment: No need to be insulting here or hypercritical regarding spelling etc. Most people do not realize that they are in a cult-like religion until they are out of it, or at least out from under it’s control and indoctrination.
Reply
 

 Andrew says:

 September 30, 2013 at 7:50 pm

Yes John you are quite right. Curiously my aged parents were telling medical and hospital personnel etc that the congregation would look after them in their old age. Then the elders read them the riot act about not expecting that but that their immediate family is expected to do that. Their immediate family is me their son whom they are supposed to shun because I no longer want to be a JW. As my mother once said “We will call you when we need you” Changed their tune now so that they are quite willing for me to help them (and entertain them too I might add) more than whenever they just need me. I love them and am happy to do it but it just shows up the double standards which cognitive dissonance seems to prevent them from seeing. Sad sad sad happy. And one has to put the blame where it belongs. On the hierarchy and its ever more desperate rants.
Reply
 
 StillHaveFaith says:

 October 1, 2013 at 10:13 am

When Organized Religion Becomes a Cult
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eliyahu-federman/when-organized-religion-become_b_3996139.html
Excerpts from above article:
 The distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated
 Cults claim exclusivity, are highly secretive, and authoritarian….What distinguishes religion from cults is the ability to question without being shunned and ability to reject dogmatic tenets without being shunned.
 Many religions make exclusive claims to truth…The harm stems from a system that shuns and ostracizes adherents that don’t accept their exclusive claims to truth. That is where conventional religion becomes a potentially harmful cult. Forcing people to conform by using the subtle threat of social alienation is a form of coercion.
 Any religious community can become a cult. It’s not about how faith is expressed in a community but more importantly how people are treated if they want to leave and disbelieve.
 In order to prevent crossing the line from religion to cult, communities need to purge themselves of dogma, intolerance and ostracizing those with different beliefs, so their adherents have true choice on how to live their lives.
Reply
 
 

 doug says:

 October 21, 2013 at 12:01 pm

May Jehova bless you
Reply
 

 Phillip says:

 October 28, 2013 at 2:04 pm

This survey and the main survey that has this question really doesn’t have all the possible answers to this question listed. There needs to be more than ‘yes’ and ‘no’ to these types of questions. Would I return to the JW’s if they got rid of their shunning policy? Of course not! But that doesn’t really apply to me because I faded and thus was not dis assed or dis felled so if the JW’s want to shun me I REALLY DON’T GIVE A SHIT! What I’m trying to say is there should be a I don’t care or a this doesn’t affect me and my situation button that voters can press. My family aren’t JW’s so I gained rather than lost so I could care less what the shunning policy is, they can sun our not, it doesn’t affect me.
Reply
 

 LOVE says:

 November 21, 2013 at 2:23 am

Well put….Can the Governing Body be sued impeached for crimes against society?
Reply
 
 alanv says:

 November 21, 2013 at 2:30 am

When a person gets baptised these days they agree to work with the governing body, which means they accept whatever doctrines the organisation has. If a person is not prepared to do this, then they should not get baptised.
Reply
 
 

 LOVE says:

 November 21, 2013 at 2:26 am

Still Hav Faith—I so agree with what you have stated regarding cults…..
WTBTS does soo much more harm than good w/thier secrets, and control tactics
Reply
 

 Crash says:

 December 25, 2013 at 4:42 pm

It is just good old fashioned wrong.
Reply
 

 Jennifer says:

 January 26, 2014 at 9:28 pm

When you leave an abusive spouse, YOU DON’T GO BACK!!!!
Reply
 

 Holy Cannoli says:

 January 30, 2014 at 3:25 am

to still have faith.. You seem like you really believe in your heart what you are saying but I have to ask you this? With all your advice for caution and being quiet and watching what you say, and so many have lost families, and faith and some have even gone insane etc? It seems to me that they have caused extreme pain for many and divided families over and over. You mention that much of what they say are proven false doctrines of men and I agree. As a former long time elder who believed in the WTS and
 things they were teaching 100% I saw so much pain going on around me and unhappiness and obviously so have you. My question is? If this is REALLY the TRUE faith why would it produce results like this? Why so much division and why so much distrust? Shouldn’t a good healthy tree produce good healthy happy fruit? If you cannot speak freely and always looking over your shoulder what “fun” is that? True religion should be a happy producing experience. So if you left the org for personal reasons why would you ever want to go back to that kind of ostracism and spy network? The whole idea of you cannot have a relationship with God or Jesus Christ unless it is thru the WTS and GB is Bogus. The only person we were ever given to go thru was and is Jesus Christ. Case closed. All this brainwashing about needing and Org to be the mediator is a way to control you. Same as the Catholic Church did for 100’s of years.
Why would anyone want to go back to that kind of treatment if you left it? Why go back and secretly “keep quiet” about weird teachings or not be able to express a different viewpoint? The way they treat the flock much of the time is reflective of the spying done on people in former eastern block nations? You are guilty until proven innocent. It is called the “thought ” police.
Reply
 
 Imacountrygirl says:

 January 30, 2014 at 12:00 pm

Holy Cannoli, In answer to your question, perhaps some stay in and hide in plain sight because love of their family is greater than their desire to leave.
Even though it seems like my family’s love is conditional on whether I return to “the truth”, my love for them is not conditional on anything. Not a day goes by that I don’t wonder how they are or think about them in some way. I accept their actions, or rather lack of action, because there is nothing I can do about it so I don’t dwell on their loss of me. It is their choice, not mine. I would do anything I could to help any of them if I knew they were in need. That is how we were raised as children, something I took to heart.
I’m glad some are able to stay hidden and provide us with the inside details of what is going on in the org. Knowledge is power and I want to be in a better position to help any of my family who I hope will one day, choose to act on their conscience, instead of relying on the organization to absolve them of guilt over how they treat me and others who are disfellowshipped.
If I had it to do over again knowing what I know now, I would have handled things differently, simply because of all the pain and conflict it caused my son. He lost respect for all of them over how they treated me. He had looked up to my brother as someone he wanted to be like when he grew up. When I was disfellowshipped, my family “disfellowshipped” my son too though he had done nothing deserving of that. I honestly don’t know if I can ever forgive them for how they treated my son.
Circumstances are unique for all of us. I believe we each make choices about how we live our lives. It is not my place to question any one’s choice. It is not my job to judge anyone. (not anymore that is) It does not stop me from being curious about others and what their motives might be as I am fascinated by human behaviour and interactions. My curiousity about others sometimes helps me gain insight into myself.
Please don’t think too harshly of those who choose to stay in….we don’t know what is in anyone’s heart…and we have never walked in their shoes.
Reply
 
 StillHaveFaith says:

 January 30, 2014 at 1:48 pm

Countrygirl,
 I am sorry for your loss of your family. When I left I did not have to lose family members since none of my family were JWs. That is the hardest part for most people who leave, although Jesus has compassion for you. “Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows”….
What appears to be a lack of compassion by family and friends who are still JWs is actually caused by their programming and indoctrination which causes them to actually believe that they are “serving God” by shunning you. There is also their own underlying fear that they will be disfellowshipped themselves if they associate with you. We must keep in mind that everyone who is still in this religion is deceived, just like we were ourselves before we got out and “saw the light”. It is actually a “blessing in disguise” for those of us who are disfellowshipped because this gives us the opportunity to discover the REAL truth, but as Jesus taught, it is not always easy to follow HIM instead of a religion.
Reply
 
 

 StillHaveFaith says:

 January 30, 2014 at 12:28 pm

Dear Christian Brother,
AMEN to everything you said. Thank you for caring about my eternal salvation!!! I have left the WTBTS and will NOT return. I think you may have become confused by my comments to someone here who is still inside. I was making the point to her that if she wants to stay in, she has to “keep her mouth shut”. That does say a lot about what JWs have to do in order to stay within the WTBTS. Many JWs are questioning the WTBTS teachings now, but due to fear of losing their entire family and all their friends they are choosing to stay in, although some are “fading” slowly so as not to get officially disfellowshipped, and thus hopefully avoid that evil trap. I do not want to keep my mouth shut about the TRUTH, and in fact Jesus commands us to speak the truth, but each person has to come to their own conclusions…..
My name “StillHaveFaith” may also have confused you about my status, however I chose this name because it represents the fact that the WTBTS has NOT destroyed my FAITH in JEHOVAH and JESUS CHRIST, like it has with so many who have left or been disfellowshipped. The goal of Satan is to decieve us with false religious teachings, the “doctrines of men” which are contradictory to the Bible. This way so many people within so many religions are having a “form of godly devotion but proving false to it’s power”. Satan’s ultimate purpose is to destroy our faith in God and His Son.
ALL religious organizations have developed their own separate teachings which they ALL claim are “inspired of God” and “supported by the Bible”!!! I have finally come to the realization that it is only God’s Word that we should seek out for guidance. God endowed us with free will and logical reasoning, but organized religions want us to accept that their manmade doctrines over-rule what God himself has revealed in the scriptures.
As Jesus himself said, “And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” [Matthew 15: 6-9 NWT]
I have been untangling all of the false teachings and separating the Biblical facts from the WTBTS fiction though prayer and Bible study. I have received much understanding from the Boroean Pickets website. Regarding “programming”, here is an excellent article on this subject, “When Evidence Isn’t”, which I also wrote a long comment about how indoctrination affects us all. My ID here is the same “StillHaveFaith”
http://meletivivlon.com/2013/10/25/when-evidence-isnt/#comments
Your comments are excellent and oh so true, so I hope that JWs who are reading here will consider your statements.
Reply
 
 

 Carol says:

 March 2, 2014 at 5:58 am

Fully concur!
Reply
 

 Teela Brown says:

 March 18, 2014 at 6:50 pm

I hope they continue with disfellowshipping as it forces the person disfellowshiped to evaluate the views of the “truth” people shunning, friendships destroyed, and how “worldly” people can be unconditional with there love and support. Especially if the offense was for little things like smoking it makes the witnesses look silly.
Reply
 

 Paul Ramos says:

 April 1, 2014 at 6:30 am

If this entire scenario were looked at ONLY from man’s perspective . . .
 An organization has the right to make rules for their followers to comply with. If you break the rules, you are out of the ‘club.’ You know and understand before you join the rules and requirements, and the outcome, if you break the rules.
 Thus, the questions for baptism. So is all the concern about if JW’s are following the scriptures, or the disfellowshped not following the rules, AND not liking the outcome?
Reply
 
 Imacountrygirl says:

 April 1, 2014 at 12:20 pm

Paul, If we were only talking about a man’s organization, I would have to agree with your logic.
We are not talking about a man’s organization, we are talking about an organization that claims to be God’s channel on earth, his mouthpiece. We have to go through the organization to find salvation. Don’t you think that puts a barrier between you and God? Why can’t you talk to him yourself? Does God really need an organization to speak for him?
As far as the questions for baptism, when does God ask that we give our loyalty to an organization? I can’t find any evidence of that in the Bible.
Why doesn’t this organization recognize Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord? Jesus is all but gone from the Watchtower. The whole New Testament is about Jesus and the pattern of love he set for us. It takes the focus off Jehovah and places it on Jesus, whom we have to recognize and acknowledge as our Savior if we are to have any chance of salvation. Why doesn’t this organization help people to develop a close and personal relationship with Jesus?
As far as rules, the only thing I have found are Jesus two commandments at Matthew 22:37-40 “Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” So where do all the rules come from anyway? Who made the rules up? Why does the Governing Body ask more of us than Jesus asks?
Why does the organization spend so much time preaching door to door and no time actually physically helping people, feeding them when they are hungry, helping to clothe them when they are naked. If we truly love our neighbor, all of mankind is our neighbor.
Where did the organization get the authority to be judge, jury and executioner of one who sins? Isn’t Jehovah’s forgiveness the only one who really counts?
Reply
 

 Andrew says:

 April 1, 2014 at 3:02 pm

The big problem is that this organisation keeps changing the rules and keeps adding to the rules. This does not give those who have been in it for a long time any option except to stay even when this does great damage to one’s conscience. Your argument only applies to those newly joining. This makes the GB all the more reprehensible. For those who simply want to leave without further complication it is quite unacceptable to have to be shunned. There is absolutely NOTHING in scripture that justifies that. In fact Paul said that “they have gone out from us” and left it at that. A simple statement of fact. He did not follow this up with an act of vengeful retribution. Remember that an organisation such as the JWs uses guile to get people in (attractive propaganda) and fear to keep them in. I ask why? Even God gives freedom of choice. Why such paranoid dealings to keep the thing intact? and the people in? You must believe if in fact you do believe that as Jesus said the gates of Hades will not prevail against His church (congregation). Trust him. This is the big problem with most JWs. They put greater faith in the mouthings of the GB than they do in the word of God. Frankly that is a blasphemy. Trust and obey Him and don’t be misled by all the shenanigans of the religious whoever they may be.
Reply
 
 

 Watchtower Watch says:

 April 1, 2014 at 12:13 pm

Paul Ramos – “ONLY from man’s perspective…” What other perspective would a human look at this from? Christianity should not be about herding people into corral if they decide to worship with a group. Things change and knowledge expands as we all get older – and we often go in different directions. Should a child who was baptized at ten years old (as I was) be locked into a cultish religion for the rest of his life – or else lose all of his friends and family? I don’t think so. The parable of the “Prodigal Son” makes that very clear. The sad fact is that Jehovah’s Witnesses are now effectively disfellowshipping and shunning even non-baptized JW family. Many who grew up in Witness families but were never baptized find themselves shunned by their family and friends if they decide to not continue. Where is the rule for that? Why would such a rule apply? Are you baptized by osmosis if you happen to be born into a JW family? Let’s face it – there is no purpose for shunning other than its use as blackmail – and we all know that blackmail is a criminal offense in any country or society. Shame on the Watchtower for promoting such an idea.
Reply
 

 Andrew says:

 April 1, 2014 at 3:08 pm

You know I have been gone for some time now but have been taken up by God himself. I actually feel that for me to be shunned is a blessing as I don’t really want to have dealings with anyone who can stay loyal to such a system.. I must qualify that as for me it is easier now because my children have also left. I do understand compeletely where they have caused such pain in the breakup of families. Remember folks that in the long run God WILL hold them accountable as we must all stand before the judgement seat of God. It may take time, it may not be in my or your lifetime but when Christ comes – look out.
Reply
 
 StillHaveFaith says:

 April 3, 2014 at 9:47 pm

Post to Andrew Re Disfellowshipping
Amen Brother Andrew!!!
I also discovered that my disfellowshipping turned out to be a “blessing in disguise”. I sat in the back for five years, and I never had a desire to get re-instated. I was surprised at how relieved and peaceful I felt. Like you, I was thankfully not impacted by losing family members since I was the only person in my entire extended family that became a JW. I was grateful to have escaped my Catholic upbringing at the time, but eventually came to realize that the WTBTS was teaching “commands of men as doctrines”, just different unscriptural doctrines than my previous religion. Although at least the Catholic Church no longer engages in Ex-communication, so you can leave whenever you decide to with no repercussions.
I finally left 25 years ago, but I never really understood why so many horrible situations were occurring with so many others, until just the past few years when I started researching online. I believe that it was God’s direction for me to discover the REAL Truth about what the Bible REALLY teaches about many of the Watchtower doctrines which are NOT scriptural, and especially regarding the Governing Body usurping the throne of Christ, who is our one and only Mediator.
I sometimes wonder about good people that I knew at the Kingdom Hall way back then, and hope that at least some of them were able to eventually see the light and escape. In fact I knew a very kind young man with your name, but it’s not you since he went by “Drew” instead of Andrew. (Although Andrew might not even be your real name since most people on here post by alias) Anyway, your post makes me think of these people and gives me hope for them, although I realize that it is a lot harder for enlightened JWs to leave with family members who are still being influenced by the ongoing indoctrination, and therefore do not realize that they should be following our true Leader, Jesus Christ, instead of the Governing Body.
Reply
 
 

 Mary Mary says:

 April 20, 2014 at 4:41 pm

They need to be shunned because their sins have been marked with all sorts of loath things under the pretext of god name. Jehovah will destroy the watchtower branches and all who defame his name. The watchtower is not jehovah visible organization. They do not qualify with their evil agenda, twisted, man made and demonic teaches. I only pray that those innocent sheeplike ones see the light out of darkness.
Reply
 

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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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148 Responses to Welcome


Newer Comments →

 Mark Davis says:

 January 29, 2013 at 2:03 pm

New to the site, look forward to reading more of your material.
Reply
 

 Randy G. says:

 March 3, 2013 at 6:20 pm

Hi Cedars,
Congratulations on your 2012 survey. You clearly have engaged in a labour of love and no doubt some financial expense as well. Just having an opportunity to voice concerns regardless of our current status and involvement with the faith can be cathartic. To what extent will the Governing Body read your report? Unless they directly responded one could never know. Nonetheless having a substantial package delivered by UPS as you’ve arranged no doubt has some impact — even if it was just thrown away.
Consider too what current GB members might hear from the average member. No doubt much of it is praise and we-so-love-the-organization type of comments. Nice, but not really intellectually stimulating. Thus I would not be entirely surprised if some of those in leadership positions pay a fair amount of attention to dissenting voices, especially when expressed with respect and well articulated. I know when I served as an elder and Bill Bowen had setup silentlambs.org when the circuit overseer talked privately to the elders he said several things about Bill, whom he said he knew.
On March 24, 2013 our ex-JW meetup groups (West Phoenix and Chandler) have organized a “Shun Run”. We did this last year too and 9 came out for the walk/run. Prior to this event I wrote to one specific individual at HQs, using the code from his letter to me (SDB:SSY). He doesn’t write back, but I too hope our concerns about shunning don’t fall on deaf ears. But even if they do, I still hope our Shun Run is of help.
Cheers,
 -Randy
Reply
 

 Steve says:

 June 23, 2013 at 2:02 pm

I was curious, you are always pretty vocal about whats new. Did I miss a post as to why you are no longer afilated with AAWA?
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 23, 2013 at 2:08 pm

Hi Steve. I would prefer not go into the exact reasons why I am no longer with AAWA, but you should know that I still support AAWA and hope it is successful in its objectives with or without me. It didn’t seem necessary to write an article about it on this website because I don’t consider it to be that big of a deal for my readers. I would rather continue to focus on what’s going on with Watchtower. I hope you understand. :)
Reply
 
 

 Steve says:

 June 24, 2013 at 10:27 am

Thanks for the reply. Of course I respect your wishes. But you will forgive me for suggesting that is a little hypocritical. Especially since aawa – while they accuse the watchtower for being a cult because of amoung other things information control – have encountered a number of issues, the facebook fiasco to one side – the racist comments in their (now mysteriously disapeared) newsletter. Their firstly insulting any posters that disagree with them, and then deleting and ip blocking anyone that posts something negative. (this i experienced first hand). As a respected commentator I had hoped you could shed some light, rather than allow another organisation to sweep its mistakes and errors under the carpet.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 24, 2013 at 11:32 am

Hi Steve. I’m sorry you think I am a hypocrite simply because I won’t dish the dirt on a fledgling organization which, though imperfect, shares my aims and aspirations. If you really need me to point out the difference between AAWA and an organization that controls the lives of millions under the pretense that it is under God’s guidance, then you are more dependent on my reasoning ability than you perhaps should be. In any case, I respect your opinion and I am glad that you can respect mine. Cedars
Reply
 
 

 zahid says:

 July 20, 2013 at 12:21 am

I want you guys to join
Reply
 

 Arno says:

 July 21, 2013 at 12:06 pm

I personally appreciates all the energy you are putting into this website, Cedars – in particular the 2013 survey. I would love to participate in this survey, but, for the time being, elects to wait and see if there will be an amended survey in the months to come, wherein the above suggestions by various participants/commenters have been included.
I’m very glad to have chanced upon this website tonight whilst doing some “research” (googling) the topic “Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses”. A fantastic and laudable task you’ve taken upon yourself…and a great site indeed.
Count me in :)
Reply
 

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 July 21, 2013 at 6:27 pm

“forgive me for suggesting that is a little hypocritical”
“but you should know that I still support AAWA” ~ Well, would some feel that way because I decline to actively join an openly opposing organization to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and yet strive to be amiable and cooperative with it? I sometimes get that sense…
I see it as practical and neighborly as well as trying to utilize what tools are available to me…
I have assessed and reassessed my circumstance and I am quite comfortable with my position…
Reply
 

 Anonymous says:

 August 8, 2013 at 7:40 am

I’m at a point in my life where I shun all organizations. I am thankful for people like Cedars willing to expose the inconsistencies within organized religion. However unfortunately groups of people once they band together often go rogue and deviate highly off course. I have found that a journey to enlightenment is often best done alone.
Reply
 

 leo says:

 August 25, 2013 at 8:58 pm

after studying the the Bible cover to cover with JWs for 10 years and then leaving i got my degree in Religious Studies.Pulling major doctrines from books like the Revelation is troublesome…many doctrines are Catholic holdovers.my question is , If Jesus prayed all night and chose the 12…and one was a thief….WHERE ARE ALL THE UNACCOUNTED BILLIONS ?
Reply
 

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 9:49 pm

leo said:
On August 25, 2013 at 8:58 pm
“after studying the the Bible cover to cover with JWs for 10 years and then leaving i got my degree in Religious Studies.Pulling major doctrines from books like the Revelation is troublesome…many doctrines are Catholic holdovers.my question is , If Jesus prayed all night and chose the 12…and one was a thief….WHERE ARE ALL THE UNACCOUNTED BILLIONS ?”
I’ve asked this for a good long time and even inquired of US Federal agencies but I appear to have always been a voice in the wind. I have always had a profound concern about the removal of assets to offshore locales and conversion or any number of hiding of assets scenarios to avoid having to pay these massive damage claims that were foreseen when the Society paid out the near half Billion back in the mid 90’s and after that in the early 00’s and who knows what else? They apparently can avoid paying tax on the earned income from the Hedge Funds in the US at least but do they report the money at all? What other taxable “for profit” income is generated under tax free 401 (C)(3) status? The decisions were made and casually amended to empower themselves in very loose, general and abstract terms in the annual meetings of 1999-2003:
http://dc159.4shared.com/doc/gf-AoDRf/preview.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TF2VKBBHKQBG5AC5C
Reply
 

 LMC says:

 September 20, 2013 at 10:21 am

OK I am having difficulty with this point. JW’s say that the UN will turn on “false religion” however with recent events in Egypt (uprisings ousted president ect) it has been reported on news sources that Christians are being killed in Egypt and other countries. Also in history we see that Christians have at some point been killed, persecuted ect over the centuries. My question is how can Jehovah “put it into the hearts of the UN (political, military, wild beast whatever-has this changed over the years?)” to turn on “false religion” when it is already happening and has happened throughout history? Any thoughts?
Reply
 

 former sister says:

 October 8, 2013 at 6:46 pm

I am curious as to the J.W. Selling all their property in New York and moving to a more secluded area?
Reply
 

 Roger M. Woodbury says:

 October 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm

My wife is a JW recently returned after a lengthy absence from active participation. I have been attending meetings with her, and for seven months studied the Bible with a JW elder from the local Kingdom Hall. I ceased studying when it became apparent that the “study” was less about the Bible than about selling me on the idea of becoming a JW which was never an option. I continue studying not only the Bible, but the organization itself and have learned quite a bit about the organization that is disquieting to me.
I find the secrecy of the organization and the way it operates to be disturbing. It seems to me that if the faith of the organizational leadership was as strong as it should be, then there should be no fear of dissent within the congregations.
Most discouraging of all is the apparent prevalence of child sexual abuse and pedophilia that exists within the congregations and the fact that the organization seems to be unable or unwilling to do much about it. There is supposedly a listing held in secret in the organization’s headquarters of a pedophiles and sexual abusers that numbers in excess of 24,000. If the statistics hold for this organization that psychologists and sociologists maintain for the general population, this number is not more than 5% of the actual number within the organization itself. In an organization of seven million or so world wide, this would make the percentage of pedophile/child sexual abusers to be considerably higher than the general population. While it is true that the illness is not discussed at all directly in the Bible, the Society’s unwillingness to deal effectively with the problem lays itself open to precisely the kinds of persecutions that it predicts will roll down hill on top of it during the tribulation. I do not believe that “self-inflicted” tribulations are scriptural.
As far as the JW’s selling off property in Brooklin is concerned, I suspect one great motivating factor for relocation and real estate sales is the award and settlement figures for civil litigation involving child sexual abuse which currently is passing $50 million. While some of the jury awards may well be overturned on appeal, the number of settlements out of court are substantial and involve substantial amounts of money. Could the awards and exposures be sufficient to financially destabilize the organization? Who knows, but certainly if the organization loses $50 million or more, its financial condition will be severely impacted and attractive and valuable real estate in Brooklin would seem to have less value to them.
It seems likely that if the Jehovah’s Witnesses were to modernize their operational structure just a bit and allow women to participate in the operation of the organization on the same basis as men, and if in fact there were four women on the governing body, it seems likely that the incidence of child sexual abuse and pedophilia would disappear from the congregation entirely.
Reply
 

 Christian Sparlock Freedom says:

 October 18, 2013 at 11:19 am

Great article. Your efforts are appreciated .
 Great cartoon also .
Reply
 

 Free Thinker/Non-JW says:

 October 19, 2013 at 7:05 pm

Hi Cedars,
 As an outsider looking in, I find the watchtower phenomenon and their followers fascinating.
 For many years, I have worked in close proximity to several jw’s, and they have always been polite, and non-proselytizing at the work-place. However, there has always been a “separatist” underlying current among them, in addition to the secretive behavior regarding their lives outside of work. This, among other things, has led my curiosity to try to learn more about them.
 Your website is replete with useful information, and I plan to use it as one of many research tools.
 Thanks for the time and effort you put into educating others, regarding the history and the doctrines, of this very interesting segment of human culture.
Reply
 

 JB says:

 October 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm

Hello, I discovered this site a short while ago,
 I must say I’m totally impressed by the depth of knowledge of both the moderators and many commentors, among whom, probably many spent long years within the
 organization. I appreciate the well-documented and open minded approach, although I must say that at times, some blog entries and comments make me feel like they’re made just for the sake of “keeping the momentum” critisizing, while I truly believe there are quite a few troublesome
 topics very rightly critisized here already.
I myself have mixed feelings about the organization, and refrain from reaching to conclusions for many reasons. Still, I think, if it’s not for its Governing Body,an organization with its members who honestly search for truth, ready to put their own lives in line for what they believe as truth, deserves respect … I saw all the negative sides mentioned here and elsewhere within the organization, but I have also seen wonderful, honest, open minded, intelligent people. They are the reason for me not to dismiss it so easily …
I intend to hang around in the most constructive manner as possible, I can see that I’m by no means more clever and knowledgeable than anyone here, I guess I’ll question everything, both the organization and any critisism against it, in case I can’t find a solid basis for those … I think the reason many people became a JW (and then left) was finding and living the truth. I think this aim remains as the sole objective, above anything, including our ego’s. At least, I’d like this to be this way for myself.
Reply
 

 kb2013 says:

 December 28, 2013 at 6:45 pm

Thank you for creating this informative website.
I was brought up as a JW and started taking it seriously for last 10 years. However, there were times where I had witnessed things that just didn’t seem right. (Gossiping, Favouritism, Hypocrisy etc. ) I discussed my feelings with a few people. The feedback that I got was along the lines of, “Just ignore it”, “Pray about it”, “We need to continue putting up with one another”.
The final straw was the distribution of the new Bibles. In the UK, the privileged few (elders, their wives, pioneers, brothers and sisters who have been baptised members for over 30 years) were invited to the annual meeting and given a new bible. The rest of the rank and file members had to wait. (We finally got ours a couple of weeks ago).
At the next meeting, a pioneer brother jokingly said, “The new bibles are only for…” then he stopped in mid-sentence, laughed and then said, “no I can’t say that, I’m only joking!” However, it didn’t seem like a joke. There was a sense of “them and us”. The new bibles were used in the meetings straight away, even though the majority of the members did not have a new bible. It would’ve probably made a bit more sense to release the new bibles at the district conventions, so that everyone received a copy at the same time.
Then I visited this website and read about the failed prophecies (e.g. 1975), the racist history of the WTBTS, mind control techniques etc. My eyes have been opened ever since.
I am not angry but more disappointed about the time I have invested in this organisation. However, this experience has helped me to gain an understanding of how organisations employ mind control techniques and how best not to get involved. I am working on my fade out of this organisation.
Thank you Cedars and others for the hardwork you all have put into creating this website. I hope that more current JWs will visit this website and start thinking for themselves.
Reply
 

 Julia says:

 January 8, 2014 at 11:13 pm

Hi Cedar
I’m from Poland and I’m a former Jehovah’s witness. We have website about JW in our country too. We discuss there on the belives of JWs.
 Many of us have parents in this religion. Therefore, I understand how you feel.
 I wish you luck, many of the articles on your website and the agreement of the parents.
 I greet.
 Julia
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 Ian says:

 January 14, 2014 at 7:15 pm

On one hand, the property in Dumbo is an unnecessary expense when it comes down to it, and I’m surprised they held onto it for this long. On the other hand, the price tag was a little low as well as the sale happening relatively quickly coinciding with the lawsuits the recent lawsuits does leave question. Just an observation.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 January 21, 2014 at 10:32 pm

Hi Cedar,
 I’m one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I don’t associate with the WTS. They can’t dis-fellowship me since I was never baptized into that organization. I enjoyed reading your experience. Also I like the articles on your site.
 regards
 Duds
Reply
 

 Eddie says:

 January 22, 2014 at 2:25 am

Hi, Cedar
 Your site is very well put together and I share your understanding. I’m an agnostic, I don’t agree with all written in the Bible. 2000 years went by with no divine intervention on human affairs, suddenly about 130 years ago a lunatic gets a heavenly call to announce a false date 1914?
 For sure the GB is not “spirit directed” and the WT is just another religious cult, one of many that abound in Christendom. I was disfellowshipped once, suffered the shunning process, reinstated then silently faded away.
Reply
 

 Brendan Tannam says:

 January 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm

I guess it is becoming clear that AAWA is just another egotistical organisation modelled on the Watchtower.
Reply
 

 Appreciative says:

 February 9, 2014 at 2:58 pm

Hi Cedars.
My husband devoted a good decade of his life–almost every free minute–to researching Watchtower and writing long articles about his findings, to debating with JW apologists, etc. Back then (from the early 90s to mid-2000s), there were only a handful of people doing what you’re doing. He felt compelled to do the work. But now he no longer has to because of the tremendous efforts you and others are making. Your site is fabulous. I left back in the early 80s, when there was practically no information like this available. What a difference now for people who have doubts and who want to leave. The resources available to them are staggering. I think your site is among the very best. Thank you for your continued hard work so that people like my husband can turn their attention to other matters.
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 5, 2014 at 10:18 am

To Duds
You are right they cannot DF you but they can Call you “bad association” and basically do the same thing. They now can even classify non-witnesses that are associated or affiliated with the WT as “approved publishers” or “disapproved publishers” They always come up with another way to gain more control over everyone. I remember some years back when I was newly baptized an Elder of that time told my wife that we should not be hanging around my “WORLDLY” parents to much bc they had made it clear by their actions that they were “enemies Of the Kingdom” by not becoming KW’s and not attending the meetings? I was very upset at the time bc they were basically telling me not to hang around my NON JW family. If that isn’t total control over your life and cult like I don’t know what is!
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 5, 2014 at 7:31 pm

Hi Holy Conolli,
 Thanks for your comments,Its sad the WTS has got so far out of touch with decency. When is your family got to be looked on as bad association? I can understand if the family were very vile, however, that’s not usually the case with most worldly families. I don’t have any family relatives living close by, but when I meet with them,it is still great to associate with them even though they don’t share what I believe.In fact it often leads to some interesting discussions. The WTS has to look at it policies and reconsider their teachings. Many of the teachings are boarding on being Pharisaical, and need adjusting or eliminating all together to show a more loving approach, to those outside their organization, and to their families inside, who have been unjustly separated from their families due to contrary understanding of WTS material.
 may you continue to have peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 6, 2014 at 12:09 am

Hi Duds
In my experience let’s say that a family may be studying in the congregation and they have some kids that are teenagers etc. and just doing normal teenage stuff like playing sports, dancing, gong to movies, maybe hanging out late sometimes etc In a mixed company of girls and boys. If after a while they do not start going door-door or if they are not “progressing” in the JW cong it wouldn’t be long before they starting pressuring them to go out in service, stop hanging out, no dancing, little if any sports playing etc. If they did not tow the WT line they would become “bad associations” and they could be “marked” in the congregation which basically means they are not to be associated with except on a very limited level and that is ONLY if they are going to meetings and doing the JW thing. I know many who that happened to. The thing is the JW’s do not give their youth anything to do except for going door-door and maybe some kid of Watchtower farm work. They take away everything that normal teenagers do like sports, dancing, music, College, groups Clubs, party’s, and they do not replace it with anything. Young people need an out let and going door-door just doesn’t cut it! I mean at least the Mormons have sports, clubs, chaperoned dances, school activities, preparing them for college, Many kinds of activities to occupy young folks with clean things to do. But the JW’s have nothing to offer.
They re the religion of NO FUN! Then if anyone does have fun they wan to stop it. Several years ago I used to organize Friday night Softball games under the lights at a baseball field in town. So many young kids came out to play and have fun and after we would go have Pizza etc until maybe 11-12 midnight. After several months of this on a regular basis the JW Elders and the CO stepped in to stop it bc they said the young people were to tired to go out in Field service on Saturday morning and it ws taking away from their “spirituality”? So they made a big thing about it and basically squashed it. They even had the nerve to give a talk from the platform on “needs” of the congregation and said we were getting to Competitive and we should play softball without keeping score? What kind of CRAZY mind is that? So they stopped it but NEVER offered an alternative except go OUT IN FOEDL Service!
No wonder so many young people are leaving that religion. JW’s the Religion of No fun!
Do you currently consider yourself a JW dud? Do you go door-door still?
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:01 am

Hi Holy Conolli
 I agree with you, it’s disappointing to say the least that WTS views on association and recreational activities are really appalling.Most of the young ones in the congregation are really there because of their parents,and most will only stay in the congregation because they don’t want to be shunned by their family.If that treat didn’t exist I’d imagine many would leave tomorrow. Why not let them enjoy themselves while their young, and when they get to that time in their life they want to change, it will be for all the right reasons, and not because their forced to do so.
Holy, I still believe Jehovah to be the true God and hence for that reason I am one of Jehovah’s witnesses. I don’t believe, however, the WTS and the GB are Jehovah’s only God’s representatives. Today, they have an elevated view of themselves and are failing their members, and the people of the world. With their unhealthy view of themselves, they have for example continued to tell lies, regarding the date of 607B.C.E. for the destruction of Jerusalem.They have known at least since 1978 that 587 B.C.E. is the correct date for Jerusalem’s destruction.Their pride is stopping them from being humble and admitting their error. In the mean time they continue to mislead,misquote scholars,lie,and deceive to backup their flawed theology. Shortly, they will have to face up to that fact, they will probably reveal it as new light and some will be fooled into believing it.
 I still believe many of the other truths that they teach. However they are not the owner of those truths, Jesus and his Father are,and beside other religions also teach them.
 My faith in Jesus and Jehovah has strengthen, since I began to study for my self. When something is difficult, I refer to how others (even the wts) understand but only then to compare and check.
 May you have peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:14 am

Hi Holy Conolli
 I wrote an earlier post explaining where I stood with my beliefs but I think it may have gone astray in cyber-land. Hope you get it. It may be going thru quarantine.
 Cheers Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 6, 2014 at 6:37 am

Dud
I missed your previous comment but I found it afte some looking. Sorry I missed it earlier. Thanks for sharing.
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 6, 2014 at 2:23 pm

I admire you for hanging in there despite the fact that you recognize many of the things you mention. I also found out about 587 BCE as being the correct year on my own. Since that is correct it throws their number 1 teaching of 1914 and all the things associated with it out the door! So that means Jesus was not crowned King in that year. It means he did not “return” that year, it means the cleansing of the spiritual temple did not occur in 1918-1919 etc,it means Satan was not thrown down to the earth, it means the last days did not start in that year etc. My wife is still an active JW and I am not sure what she thinks with all these radical changes and attitude of GoV Body etc I think she is just numb to it and goes along with whatever they say. I also Believe in Jehovah and in Jesus Christ but not anymore through an organization or a Church. Especially the WT as the one and ONLY rep on earth! The facts just don’t add up. They have never, ever been correct on one thing that they predicted? Their record on prophecy is dismal at best. I am impressed that you can still attend meetings in view of what you express? If you can and it makes you feel right more power to you and I respect that and I am sure you have your reasons for doing it. For me I just could not advocate it any longer. Sure I had friends in the Cong that I miss but I have made other friends as well. I think anyone that was a serious JW like you and myself for a number of years still carry’s the effects of being a JW for long time especially if you have family still in it.
I have weighed the evidence and it just doesn’t add up what they teach anymore. I talk with a JW friend in Europe and he is afraid to express himself to much but the whole 1914 thing he doesn’t believe anymore but is afraid of being df’d by telling others so he just kind of is fading away. I could not in my heart preach anymore bc I knew it was a continual changing religious philosophy that is at BEST inconsistent and contradicts teachings of just a few years ago. I think the Gov body is worried and they really not sure of what to do anymore? As mentioned I still believe in Jehovah and Christ but our salvation is not dependent on being a JW or hours in FS or association with the WT.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 4:37 pm

Hi Holy Conolli
 I see my lost post turned up this morning, moderator must have approved.
 No, I don’t go to their meeting I haven’t gone for years, my wife and son have been d/f and I guess they would treat me the same even though I’ve never been d/f. They can d/f you from an organization but not from God, and because I was baptized before they bought in, the being baptized into an org. question, I believe they can’t d/f me. I made a dedication to serve Jehovah and Jesus not an org.
 I cannot see Jehovah or Jesus backing any of the dates presented by society they have been wrong on every one of them including 1914. When I said I still believe many of the truths, I meant the basic for example, the soul,hell not being a fiery torment, Jehovah and Jesus being separate persons but the rest, apart from most of the morals, I don’t agree with.
 You have got it right, our salvation is not depended on hour in f/s or being a member of the WTS. but in recognizing Jesus as our Savior. I couldn’t go preaching d-d knowing that the society is completely wrong about 607 and 1914, and many other things as well, it would be hypocritical.
 They claim to adhere to strick Bible chronology, but they don’t, and even change the Bible to suit their own theology.
 For example Dan 2:1 say ‘in the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar…dreamed dreams”
Now the Bible chronology says “in the second year of the kingship” but because this dosn’t fit with their theological assumption, that Daniel could not have been in Babylon in King Nebs. second year, change this to mean the second year after Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E. A complete change of Bible Chronology. Check WT2007 w07 9/1 p.17-20 par.10 also si pp 138-142. Jehovah and Jesus got it wrong according to WTS and GB.(so much for their accurate Bible chronology when quoting 607 dating).
 Daniel was in Babylon in the second year of K/Nebs. kingship, the Bible says so, why should we disbelieve it. If the society were to get their understanding right about the destruction of Jerusalem and the chronology surrounding that time, there be no valid reason for changing it. The main reason for not wanting to do that, is that it destroys their 1914 doctrine. Because Jehovah gives Jerusalem and Judah into the hands of the Babylonian Empire before the royal line of David is over thrown. Dan2:36-39 and Jer.27:4-7. therefore, the so called 70 years must apply when Babylon became a world Empire or when Jehovah chose K/Neb to be his servant, and not after Jerusalem’s destruction.
 How does your wife feel about your new understandings?
 Its hard to break old habits, it took me a while to change even though I could see obvious things that were wrong, however, I was trained to turn a blind eye and trust in the org. I just faded away until my interest was revitalize by reading the book “The Gentile Times Reconsidered” by Carl Olof Jonsson now an ex witness, great book though he has a PDF of it on his site. It proves beyond the shadow of doubt that 587 B.C.E. is when Jerusalem destroyed.
 May peace go with you
 Duds
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 6, 2014 at 5:58 pm

Hi Holy Conolli
 I think another one of my post has gone the long way round.
 Have to check tomorrow if it turns up.
 Cheers in the meantime
 Duds
Reply
 

 JB says:

 March 7, 2014 at 1:57 am

Hi Duds,
What you wrote here is pretty much my stand too. I was disfellowshipped long ago and when I wanted to find my “spiritual way” back lately, I reconsidered the religion I was born in, but soon I saw all these discrepencies and problems with it, and it brought some bitter memories back.
I’m much better outside and like you mentioned, although I still have beliefs and some key points are the same, studying on my own with an open mind seems much more beneficial and there is definitely a very health freedom about it.
Reply
 

 JB says:

 March 7, 2014 at 1:58 am

sorry I meant “healthy freedom about it”.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:01 am

Hi Holy Conolli
 It has been a real pleasure sharing these few thoughts with you.Its been a real comfort for me knowing that others, like yourself, feel the same way as I do.
 Were you bought up as a witness or was it another org. that you went back to find your spiritual way?
 I’m also glad your doing your own reading its much more meaningful, your not tided down to some watchtower influence.
 Yeah and I like that healthy freedom too!
 Cheers and peace
 Dude
Reply
 

 Excelsior says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:32 am

Duds and Holy Conolli,
Well done, folks! I would always advise anyone who still believes to read the Bible only. If you need some further information, try seeking sources that are not tied to any faith in particular.
There has been a scramble to claim Jesus of Nazareth for 2000 odd years. Everyone has an opinion, and some of those people are convinced that only they have the truth.
I still retain a great deal of respect for Jesus’ core message. I try to apply some Christian principles in my life.
His message of mercy and compassion is timeless, and we all can benefit from contemplating his teachings.
Have you chaps looked at JW Struggle? There is a splendid man called Eric on that site that shares your sincere belief in God and his Son. He has written some very fine articles that I have enjoyed reading. He is a good man. I recommend checking out his site, that he shares with some other fine folks. I think they will help to comfort you.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:42 am

Hi Duds
Thanks for sharing. I was not raised a JW. I was like 10 years old when I started studying. There was a lot of talk and scare tactics about 1975 at the time and how we need to get baptized and quit school and college and just preach etc. So I got baptized and next year got married and had 3 kids. Lot’s of struggles over the years , some good and some bad but tried my very best to be a great example of a Christian and do everything I could to support the JW’s etc. Always though in the back of my mind there were things that just never seemed right on teachings and policy they promoted and pushed. Also always seemed like the WT org was not very forgiving or very loving towards the Rank and file although in word they would say they were? Always ready to dish out punishment and policy but never ready to forgive. They told the publishers to forgive one another and to be open minded but they were not that way themselves. The love that they preached wasn’t in reality there? I remember when I was like 22 years old I was preaching in a very expensive educated neighborhood near a prominent University and I expressed my sincere doubts about how Jesus could have returned in 1914 “invisibly” despite scriptures that say the opposite and how the tribes of the earth were not Beating themselves in grief at that event as the Bible says they would do? I was sincere and just wanted answers? I wasn’t challenging anyone at that time.
 They always saw any questions as a challenge to their authority? It should not be like that.
So some of the JW’s were very disturbed at my thoughts and reasoning and told me to ask the CO at that time. They refused to discuss it. It was like they buried their head in the sand. Those thoughts lingered with me for years on that and many other teachings. Like Most good JW’s I buried it and went about being a good publisher and an elder for nearly 13 years. Supported the WT in every way possible. I remember in the 1990’s I just cold not do it anymore. The information and instructions coming from the Gov body just kept changing from one year to the next. Scriptural understanding was flip flopping all over the place, the 1914 changes in teaching was what I was saying 33 years earlier. The excuses they were making for being wrong all those years were intolerable to me to sit and accept anymore. Their was no humility on their part only telling everyone to listen, Obey and don’t question us bc we are God’s representatives. Plus I had seen SO MUCH OVER the years that I just had to remove myself from a unhealthy mental and spiritual situation the best I could without causing to much controversy in my family. My kids are grown now and sometimes I wonder what life would have been if I had raised them A “normal” life? You never know where life takes you so I am not full of regrets in that sense and my kids turned out pretty good and only 1 considers themselves a JW now but they reached those conclusions on their own. The Wife is still active and will not discuss another point of view but that is fine. She knows where I stand and she knows what I am saying is truthful but her entire life and social life is tied to the WT Org. A man has to live with himself before he can live with others.
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 7, 2014 at 4:48 am

Duds and excelsior
Sorry guys…I made a Mistake about my age! I typed in the wrong number and did not double ck! I typed in that was 10 years Old when I started studying. I typed in 10 years old and then said I got married the next year!! Lol I meant to type in I was 19 when I started studying and 20 when I got married. Lol
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 5:29 am

Hi JB
 You have the same initials as my sons. Yes both sons. Thanks for your comments.I thought I was talking to Holy Conolli when I was reading your comments and I may have replied to you as such. Sorry to you both. But my comments were sincere I appreciate you both.
 Cheers and peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 5:42 am

Hi Holy Conolli
 I really didn’t think you were 10 years old and than married at 11, I took that as the time your family started to study, and after a time of being pressured you got baptized than got married. Amazing, what one can read into something, that’s not there. Being 10 I automatically thought you were saying your family started studying.
 Thanks again for sharing
 Duds
Reply
 


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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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148 Responses to Welcome

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 Duds says:

 March 7, 2014 at 6:12 am

Hi Excelsior
 Thanks for you kind thoughts, I think the more we read the Bible on our own, the more we seem drawn to each other. Pondering Jesus ways and thoughts seems to makes us more conscious of our own weakness and faults, that we want to help others know of his redeeming qualities.
Yeah, I have checked out the JW Struggle site and your right, there are many good articles, been written in a non condemning way which helps remove that dissent ex-witness may feel for being mistreated by the WTS.
 May you continue to have peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 JB says:

 March 7, 2014 at 10:09 am

Thank you so much Duds, it’s great to see there are like minded folks.
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 7, 2014 at 3:47 pm

I have heard about his book and he is not the only scholar that brings it out. I think the WT must know that 607 BCE is not accurate but they keep trying to keep the Cong together. If and when they change that they will have a lot of explain to do. But if you are wrong you are wrong so why not admit it and just deal with it.
I think it would throw so may JW’s into mental distress they are afraid to do it. Also, if they are so wrong on this it begs the question that how many more of their teachings are they wrong with? Since this is their main teaching of all their prophetic sayings and so much is tied to this teaching it would change their entire approach to everything they have ever stood for.It could even be their downfall and cause them to dissolve as a religion? I am not saying it would but it very well could happen.
Reply
 

 cheryl massey says:

 March 10, 2014 at 11:04 am

ARE YOU SINGLE? LOL
Reply
 
 cheryl massey says:

 March 10, 2014 at 11:32 am

THAT WAS TO CEDARS.LOL THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU DO!!! YOUR VERY COURAGIOUS! I BELIEVE MY VIEWS ARE CHANGING FOR GOOD THIS TIME AND IT SCARES THE YOU KNOW WHAT OUT OF ME AND I CATCH MYSELF LIVING IN FEAR FOR A MOMENT THEN I REMEMBER THAT THEY CAN ONLY KILL MY SPIRIT IF I ALLOW THEM TOO! BRAVO!
Reply
 
 

 Duds says:

 March 11, 2014 at 6:16 am

Hi Holy Conolli
 Yeah,I’m looking forward to the day they admit, they were wrong about 607B.C.E. That will mean all the dates’ they ever spoke about, have proved false. Its possible, that a big split might come among them. If they admit it, it won’t be because it was the light getting brighter. Many,brothers and others have for years, exposed this error. Many, unjustly d/f for it.
 Will they be humble enough to honestly, confess this and apologize to all? I’m not sure they could, when you look at all the changes that will have to take place. Reinstating all wrongly d/f.brothers and sisters. Change every book explaining 607/1914/1919. introduce new doctrines to replace the 1919 cleansing and inspection,and many many more as well. That’s a lot of explaining to do ,and who is going to believe them?
 That is going to take a lot of faith!
 Keep going my brother don’t let this day, stop you from looking to the day, Jesus cleans up all this mess.
 peace and love Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 11, 2014 at 12:12 pm

Thnks Duds. I doubt very much that if they do admit it is an erroneous date that they will go back and change everything or admit BIG TIME failure. It is not something they do. However, things can change as we all know and it is possible. If they do change it and admit they were wrong then what would that do to the organization as a whole? What would the publishers do? Who would stay and who would leave and it would create an entirely different religious doctrine? It might be like even some today who still hold to Russell’s teachings? I see them on TV from time -time or read something about them? They still believe Russell was the F&D slave even after all these years? also, it could be like when Rutherford took over. It caused a Big Split 50/50 or more left the WT of those days?
does it really matter anymore since they are wrong?
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 3:05 am

If they ever do admit these wrong teachings then will they still be JW’s or will they merge with another theological idea or religion? In reality they are not much different from the former “World Wide Church of God” run by the late Herbert Armstrong. When he died there was a Big Split as some wanted to stay w his teachings and others abandoned his teachings and went with traditional Christianity. They split into so MANY different sects and groups that they are not even recognizable anymore. Some kept the same name of the church as before but the teachings are completely different. They even came out and apologized for “persecuting” other Christian denominations for decade. Herbert Armstrong was very similar to the WT Gov Body in stating that all other Churches and teachings were false and they would be destroyed at the 2nd coming/Armageddon which was always imminent. He and the WT taught similar teachings and doctrines although he was a Sabbatarian and kept the Mosaic dietary law. The point is he was very controlling. They shunned and DF’d people.If anyone left the Church the family could not speak with them. He had total control over the Church.It was a cults.So if the JW’s come out with major doctrine l changes it may very well dissolve what we currently have known as Jehovah’s Witnesses over the last 60+ years.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 12, 2014 at 4:24 am

Hi Holy Conolli
 Glad to hear from you again, I studied with the Worldwide Church of God before I became a witness. Very familiar doctrines, though their belief that God was recreating Himself in saving mankind was kind of weird. I could never accept that. It wasn’t long after that I began studying with the witnesses to convert them, lols, ended up being one, but now divorced from the WTS. That was around the time when Garner Ted Armstrong got sprung cheating on his wife. Now you hardly hear of them, Garner Ted has a TV program and someone is carrying on with Herberts teachings. I think there are some other brake away groups as well.
 There is also many break-a ways from the wts around the globe, all with some message of truth. But when the wts finally comes clean, it will most likely be too late to save face. I think there is going to be one big mess up.There will be few, if none at all, who will put trust in them again.May they all seek a good relational-ship with their Savior Jesus Christ and exercise faith in Him as the Way the Truth, and the Life.
 Peace to you my friend,
 Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 10:04 am

That is interesting that you studied with the WWC of God? I have only know a few of those folks over the years.
 In your opinion were they more of a cult and more Controlling than the WT is?
As a child growing up my Mother who was not a JW nor was I raised one always said to me, ” If you are wrong”..you are wrong, just admit it and correct it and move on. That thought always stuck with me in my JW years as a young man and as a older adult. It always bothered me that the WT WOULD NEVER admit their errors or wrong policies. Although they were HELL BENT on the publishers to repent or immediately get DF’d they would never do it for themselves. As time went on it became more clear that they were more concerned about “SAVING FACE” than correcting or admitting their error. also they were so quick to condemn Christendom or any religion that differed from them and even calling others false prophets who made erroneous predictions on the end of the World etc. but in their case it was always” Oh Some were Over anxious” or at times bc we desired the fulfillment of God’s promises some may have Overreacted? It was never them or never WE JUST ARE WRONG it was always the blame game to others.Even the LATE HAROLD CAMPING who made a BIG STIR for his May 23rd 2011 “JUDGEMENT DAY” prophecy all over the world thru Billboards, radio programs, preachers on the street at least came out after nothing happened and apologized? He was very DOGMATIC that he was right and would not be wrong and used some weird numerology that he thought was some bible code to come up with dates etc for the 2nd coming of Christ..yet he admitted his error on prophecy and apologized. The WT has never ever done that? Those who live in Glass houses should not throw Rocks?
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 12, 2014 at 8:11 pm

Hi Holy Conolli
 Herbert W. Armstrong was a very authoritative, powerful speaker. He was very persuasive he had great ability to use the Bible to fit his theology. I was very easily influenced in those days, every thing he spoke about seem to be backed up by the Bible, that impressed me, and I fell for his teachings. Many of the doctrines were familiar to the WTS which made it pretty easy for me to become a witness. The turning point in rejecting the WWCoG was Ps110.1-2. Their teaching that God was recreating Himself didn’t go well with this scripture. It was like Jehovah saying to Jehovah sit at My own right hand, which to me was absurd. How could Jehovah say such a thing? It made more sense that he was talking to Jesus who later became David’s Lord and whom Jehovah exalted and made Him Lord and King after His resurrection 33CE. From that time on I dedicated my life to serve Jehovah and His appointed King Jesus Christ. I still am dedicated to them. I was never baptized into an organization. The WTS may like to dis-fellowship me, but they haven’t, and it wont matter if they do in my absence. I will always be known as one of Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses they can’t take that away from me. They have no inherent claim to the name, its there for all Christians. Their non scriptural doctrine to shun others is null and void to all, who still believe Jesus is God’s son, and is now the ruling as King.
 Have Peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 9:25 pm

Duds
You make some interesting points I must say. I agree with the fact that we are not baptized into an Organization.
 That is not what Christianity is about at all. We all must have FREDDOM IN CHRIST not an Organization.Sometimes when I really think about t and all the disruption that these religions have caused among honest hearted ones I conclude that belonging to almost any religion and claiming that Doctrine is just nonsense.
The bible never talked about that at all. Remember Paul was disputing that very thing when he said we are not from Paul or Cephas but we are one in Christ? So the same thing here…we can not be baptized into an organization or be a Catholic or a Baptist or the WWCOG or JW’s? We are Christians if we believe. The Bible message is simple. Man has made it difficult.God created us and all the Universe. Jehovah is over everything. Man sinned and lost his way, Man needs a Savior, the Savior is the Lord Jesus Christ.Jesus is God’s gift to man. It is a free gift that we need to accept. If we do we will receive Eternal Life. Jesus will rule over mankind in his Kingdom.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 12, 2014 at 10:55 pm

Hi holy Conolli
 I’m with you,that’s exactly how I feel too.Freedom in Christ!
 Love that scripture you quoted about Paul saying,” I belong to Cephas another to Paul” yes, we are all one in Christ, we all belong to Him. There is no organizational ownership. That’s not saying we can’t be organized, but it something we all do together, willingly and without compulsion, under the loving leadership of Christ.
 have peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Conolli says:

 March 12, 2014 at 11:43 pm

Duds
Also, when we are organized to do something Spiritual or to preach or whatever we still need to have freedom to make our own decisions based on a God Given mind and conscience.Christianity was not a dictator ship ruled by a few harsh men watching every move. BTW, I am going to San Diego tomorrow for some business and I have decided I am going to go by Beth Sarim where Rutherford built the house that he grant deeded over to King David and the other Prophets that he said would be resurrected before Armageddon? The WT does not like to talk about that and if they do they try to claim he was there for “health” reasons? Oh yes, with his Luxury mansion and luxury Cars back in 1929 the year of the great Depression? I am going to take some photos of it. At one time it was a 100 acre estate. Now homes are built around it. That was a pretty wacky Idea and Doctrine he taught among many others.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 14, 2014 at 10:12 pm

Hi Holy Conolli
 Yes, the Judge lived a life of luxury, while he had the poor preach his books and teachings from door to door. All under the guise Armageddon was about to happen. The society did a good job of covering it up.
 According to them, and their latest teachings on the FDS, He is the one, Jehovah and Jesus must have chosen as his servant in 1919. He must have represented the small band of loyal Bible Students.
 quote
“(They were pleased with a small band of loyal Bible Students who showed that their heart was with Jehovah and his Word)” wt13 pp12
They don’t say that outright. However there was no GB than, so who else, was there to fill the role of FDS? Only the judge. He came to power in 1916 after the death of Russell and continued for many years there after. He had to be that composite FDS all by himself until the GB was formed many years later. Very confusing! I guess they can live with that but I can’t.
How did the trip go? What was house like?
 Cheers Duds
Reply
 

 elderwannabe says:

 March 24, 2014 at 3:28 pm

You are worse then what you say jws are. You say your site is religiously neutral? My guess is that you have a personal peeve against the witness and you want to dupe the easily persuaded too. There is nothing good about the witness? Were you at one time a jw? What do you have to offer?
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 24, 2014 at 6:25 pm

Hi Elderwannabe
I don’t know if your addressing it to me personally or to all on this site, or just to Cedars.
 I assume from your handle you are a JW or XJW. I am still one of Jehovahs’ Christians Witnesses, but I don’t agree with the WTS.
My peeve is, that they promote themselves as an organisation of truth, but their prophesies, and many other teachings, show them to be otherwise. 607 B.C.E, 1914/1919 for example, and there teaching on the FDS and this generation. A quick look over the info on jwfacts will reveal that.
Many on this site have been hurt by the the WTS stance on shunning, and d/f for simply just holding a different view on some scriptures.
While I think its too late for WTS reform, I hope many others will see the errors of the WTS and escape its grip. This site as I see it, holds out as a haven where like minded gather to encourage and share their experiences.
By reading Cedars blogs and other notable links on this site I think you will see there is a lot to offer.
Have peace Duds
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 March 24, 2014 at 6:55 pm

Hi elderwannabe
I posted an earlier note but its disappeared.I don’t know if your addressing me or all on the site.
If its me then thanks for the the thought that, I maybe worse then the jws., I don’t intend to be.
Would you prefer that ‘the easily persuaded’ to remain duped or learn the truth?
I’d like them see the errors of WTS so they can escape its grips. Yes, I’m one of Jehovahs’ Witnesses who has been hurt by the lies and falsehoods that the WTS teach.
 And Id like to help others learn those truths which expose the WTS so they can be free of manipulation.
May you have peace
 Duds
Reply
 

 Anne says:

 July 2, 2014 at 5:31 am

Thank you. One year ago I came to live with my lovely partner. We have 8 grandchildren between us and life is good. His ex wife and 2 daughters are staunch Jehovahs witnesses. A son in law is an elder. After 6 months of tolerating their appalling and shocking behavior I realised that my partner was terrified that he would never see his grandchildren again as I had confronted them about their bizarre beliefs. I feel so sorry for him. He adores his family. Now they speak to him but I am shunned even though I teach one of their children at the local school! I am so grateful for aawa. I read the site news and comments every day and that gives me strength. You are wonderful people. Thanks for being there.
Reply
 

 Art Fern says:

 July 9, 2014 at 10:57 pm

Duds, you can see the similarities clearly with the Worldwide Church of God, SDA, and the Witnesses. Shunning was big in the WWCOG, you were told to stay away from medicine and they had lots of directions on what you could or not do in the bedroom. Of course such rules didn’t interfere with Herbert’s incestuous relationship with his daughter or Garner Ted’s serial adultery with wives of pastors under him, seducing coeds at Ambassador College and the nickel and dime ordinary extramarital affairs. I am not making gossipy or speculative accusations, the dirty laundry has been admitted to.
 All three groups could well be called Adventist off-shoots, with extremely interesting characters leading the groups. Studying from the outside is fascinating but I have great sympathy for those who had to reconcile their faith with the actions and words of their leaders.
Reply
 
 Duds says:

 July 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm

Hi Art Fern
 Yes, I never became a member of the WWCOG but I certainly, study many of their doctrines before becoming a witness.That was before Garner Ted was caught out. Never knew about Hebert’s ill adventures seems like it ran in the family (lols) My dealing with the SDA is when I meet them in F/S and from a young man we had working for us. I have a friend who was bought up a SDA and became a witness we now do things differently. We don’t go a long with all the falseness coming from the wts. I’m amazed how they have in the last few years have misquoted and mislead and told outright lies to defend their false doctrines. Especially how they interrupt the FDS and GB and that they were chosen as that in 1918/1919.
 Their doctrine of 607BCE for destruction of Jerusalem is perhaps one of the biggest lies of modern day religious history, and they have known that to be a lie since the mid 70s. Now they are caught up in a whirlpool of self deception without a way out.
 The next couple of years will be telling, they are going to have to face up to it eventually, I don’t know how they will save face!
May you have peace!
And Cheers!
Reply
 
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 July 10, 2014 at 7:22 pm

Duds
Good to hear from you again. I used to think that the 1914 doctrine and the FDS and GB and 607bce would be the undoing of the WT. Now as I have talked with many JW’s I am not sure it will effect them in that way. It seems the ones I talk to just don’t seem to care much like it doesn’t really matter? Well, it mattered to me all my JW years. I just couldn’t quite go along with it 100% bc it seemed so unscriptural and not conclusive enough. Especially that Jesus came in 1914 but we cannot see him and that was the 2nd coming of Christ? I think the modern day JW is being programmed to slowly accept anything they tell them and not to question things at all. Just SHUT UP and Believe what we say!! Or I thin a large number of then do not want to face the facts that they may have wasted their lives serving men.They may also become more and more mainstream as time goes on like the WWC did or the SDA’s did. I think there will be a BIG shakeup soon though or perhaps a GOVERNIBG BODY member will leave due to flip flopping and become a modern day Ray Franz?
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 July 11, 2014 at 1:28 am

Hi Holy Connoli
Yeah, I’ve been over at Topix discussing things with them, I’ve pop in a few times to keep up with Cedars posts.
I tend to agree with you about the witnesses, they are being well groomed about accepting what the GB says, anything they say is going to be accepted regardless of how inaccurate it is.
Perhaps, some will see through the mirage and make a break, but the fear of losing friends and family by dis-fellowshiping is a strong force.
Recent w/ts have been stressing that witnesses should be avoiding all kinds of apostate material, hating opposing websites, not sharing e-mails etc with anyone speaking contrary to the GB.
It’s sad that the wts has this crazy notion that anyone seeing something different to them is wrong, the general public they call on are not up to date with jargon of the wts and sites like Cedars and wt facts are great accesses for them to see the other side.
Cheers
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 July 12, 2014 at 6:37 am

Hi Holy Connoli
Thanks for your thoughts, I posted a response the other night, but noticed to night it has not been posted. Don’t know what happen there. Don’t have time tonight to redo but will catch up soon.
 Cheers Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 July 12, 2014 at 10:02 am

Ok Duds. Look forward to hearing from you.Hope things are going well.
Reply
 

 Duds says:

 July 15, 2014 at 1:08 pm

Hi Holy
Sorry for the delay. been over on Topix, discussing Dan Ch 4 and the Gentile times. Wts has made a mess of that. There is no parallel that resembles what the wt says about Nebuchadnezzar dream. Just a lot of wishful thinking!
What about this, I was prompted to check out Rutherford “Millions now living will never die” went to their site and this is what I got;
Grateful for My Precious Memories! (‎8 occurrences)
 The Bible lecture “Millions Now Living Will Never Die” proved to be a timely witness in our extensive territory.
 w01 8/1 pp. 23-27 – The Watchtower—2001
“The Spirit and the Bride Keep On Saying: ‘Come!’” (‎5 occurrences)
 In that year, the public talk entitled “Millions Now Living May Never Die” offered hope that many will gain life in a paradise earth after the battle of Armageddon.
 w10 2/15 pp. 14-18 – The Watchtower—2010
Can you see how they have blatantly lied? Deceptively changed “will” to “may”. Big difference between “will win” the lottery and “may win” the lottery. It beats me why they can’t be honest instead of misleading the people.
May you have peace!
 Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 July 19, 2014 at 2:25 am

HI Duds
THE WT cannot be honest about the Gentile times bc it really doesn’t exist? Like you said it is wishful thinking on their part. I don’t think they really belive it anymore themselves but sine it s their main doctrine and everything revolves around it if they admit it or discard it no telling what will happen so they are “protective”of it but more in a quiet way these days.I guess there saying , that this “generation” will by NO MEANS pass away until all these things occur really means it will nt pass away unless the WT says it will!!
Reply
 

 chatpal says:

 July 29, 2014 at 8:16 am

i think the next time i get accused of being apostate Ill aks them why its ok for the GB to change its mind but not me. are they not apostates too? after all now they dont agree with themselves from a few years ago. they should all be disfellowshipped huh?
 in this case weve all been vindicated.
Reply
 

 Private says:

 August 5, 2014 at 8:20 pm

I am in my thirties now and no longer and JW. Once I became an adult I decided to do my own thing. Anyways, I just wanted to say that growing up with parents who tell you that people who celebrate Christmas are worshipping Satan, really screws with a little girls mind. :/ It made me think all my friends and extended family members were bad. But at the same time, when my birthday would come and I was this little girl wishing for a birthday party like all my friends and never got one present my whole life…I felt insecure. Sad. I spent my childhood crying every Christmas morning. It’s tough on children.
Feel free to email me if you want to interview me but, as I still respect all religions, I would appreciate being anonymus. I have alot of things built up in my mind from how I was raised in a strict JW household. I hated it.
Reply
 

 Amy Martinez says:

 August 16, 2014 at 4:19 pm

I’m 16 years old and have tons of doubt about being a Jehovah’s Witness. It’s my senior year of high school and a typical teen has tough decisions to make regarding colleges. But not me! I’m supposed to be a pioneer and work a part time job in a restaurant. That is not what I want to do! I am capable of so much more and I just feel as if I am being held back. I want to be a journalist. But that won’t happen as long as I am a Jehovah’s Witness. I have no courage. What can I do?
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 August 16, 2014 at 4:38 pm

Hi Amy. I sure don’t envy you with being where you are now. The biggest regret I have is getting involved in the “Truth” when I got out of school and even just bringing up the idea of college to the ones studying with me, made me feel like I was a criminal for even bringing it up. My suggestion is to get a hold of “Captives of a Concept” and reading it carefully and then using the suggestions in that book, ask for a Bible study in the Proclaimer’s book. That book (Captives of a Concept) points out many things in the Proclaimers book that would prove to your parents that God could never have chosen the Watchtower Organization in 1919. You can’t just convince anybody who is a died in the wool Witnesses any other way. No matter what you tell them, they won’t believe it but if you can point it out to them, little by little from that book and the Proclaimer’s book, they, hopefully will come to realize that they (your parents) are in the wrong religion. I sure wished it could be easier for you but doing it that way will take some time. You should tell your parents that since this is your entire life you are talking about, that you want to know the history of the Organization.
Reply
 

 Amy says:

 August 17, 2014 at 12:47 pm

Thank u
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 August 17, 2014 at 12:56 pm

I hope it works and you are welcome.
Reply
 

 Dazed&Confused says:

 September 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm

I am not surprised by the change but it is blatant. I noticed long ago most of the articles are riddled with words such as….possibly, apparently, it seems, could be…..
Reply
 

 Dazed&Confused says:

 September 9, 2014 at 4:28 pm

Oops…. That last comment was for Duds
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 September 19, 2014 at 4:11 am

The WT just came out with an article in recent WT pretending to still believe the 607 BCE story? They had a short article with a supposed Bible Study trying to understand the 607-1914 end of Gentile rule nonsense. I know the GB cannot really believe that anymore?
Reply
 

 Excelsior! says:

 September 25, 2014 at 3:49 am

Amy,
I would like to suggest a compromise, if that is possible in your circumstances.
Why not attend college part time? Perhaps choosing a course that will provide you with a “Witness Friendly” career? I know elders who are dentists and other professions that they learned whilst Witnesses.
If you are in the US, all of your credits will add up, and you can always take more classes as you progress in your academic career.
I would not suggest linking going to college with deprogramming your folks. Keep them separate issues for now.
It is a fact that the wtbts pay for men to take degrees in law, so why can’t you go to college part time?
I attended college with just the equivalent of a high school diploma, by completing an access to higher education course. It is never too late to study!
I hope this advice proves useful to you and good luck with your studies.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 

 Sean says:

 October 8, 2014 at 6:15 pm

I was introduced to Jehovah at a very young age and was off and on with attending meetings and having a bible study until I was 16 then alas the “world” got the better me. For the next 24 years I did the best to become a part of this world. Even found a a church I began to attend regularly for a few years until recently. I could never shake the feeling that what the church’s were teaching just wasnt true. I truly believe Jehovah’s Witnesses have a correct interpretation of scripture especially concerning matters of Jehovah and his son Jesus. I was out in the “world” long enough to get a good understanding that there is nothing good out there for me. I see alot of distrust among the leadership from the comments I am reading. I used to feel the same way and to be perfectly honest I still have doubts. The one thing I do believe and you can call me crazy but I know Satan is real and he is truly the “author of confusion”. The Watchertower Society is a human organization and they are not infallible people. The literature I read and discern using my bible and referencing other bibles has helped me in ways I am not sure you can even imagine or maybe just forgotten or become disallusioned. I look at where I was mentally a year ago and where I am now and I have seen how Jehovah is working in my life. We all have doubts. Doubts kept me away for nearly 25 years. When I look at this world everything seems so clear to me. Whether the new system comes next year or 100yrs from now makes me no difference. Im not worrying about whether the governing body got an end times prophecy accurate. Im trusting completely in my God Jehovah anf the one he sent Jesus Christ. Men dont have it all figured out. Moses had doubts. Abraham had doubts, Elijah, Jeremiah, Micah all of them. People said they were crazy. People call me crazy for being one of JWs. That used to bother me when I was 16 but now at 40 it doesnt. The Bible is my guide and I trust Jehovah to put the people in my life who will keep me spiritually uplifted and able to face anything the Enemy throws my way. People ask me what if your wrong. If I am wrong then the Bible says to dust I will return. I will simply be dead. Jehovah God will not forsake me. I wrote this not to put down anyone or make anyone feel bad but just know doubt will come questions will arise dont let things cause you to stumble. I am glad I made it back. Sorry to ramble on and on but I just felt compelled to speak. Have a good evening.
Reply
 

 Oscar Sarabia says:

 October 28, 2014 at 10:33 am

Hello..
I have a question I believe you guys can help me answer..
I would first like to say you guys are an inspiration to all of humanity. To break away from Spiritual Slavery is a sign that humanity can make its Heaven on Earth.
I am not a JW, Nor have I had many in contact other than your usual Morning Door Knockers!
 I have recently decided to do some Soul Searching again. I was brought up with many Christian Beliefs in many different religions, but I found myself in a very vulnerable position last few weeks. I have been speaking with a JW.. I found her very nice, and I thought she was making some pretty interesting points about scripture. So I went off again, reading the Bible and trying to find meaning to all this scripture.. Without submitting to religious belief.
I now have some friendly debates with my JW friend. Whenever I get to see her, No invite to house for a non needed bible interpretation. But I am at a point where I am now simply interested on what she has to say about scripture, so im debating the invitation. She is just sooooo niceee!!!! but Ok enough life story, im looking for a opposite point of view. As I believe its wise to do..
1)What do you like least about JW?
2)What do you think is the best thing about JW? if your not yet a member or are also considering learning more.. then what do you find Most Attractive or Inspiring about it??
3) Other comments..
 I just love other comments…
I thank you.. may GOD.. whoever he is to you. Bless you and guide you on your own path..
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm

Hi Oscar. I love your question and this is my answer to you. I’d get a copy of Crisis of Conscience or you can read it from JWsurvey. Cedars has it under life stories on the right side of the Title page under life stories and it’s Cedar’s story “The Story of Cedars – A Prisoner No More” and you can read it for free if you prefer to read it that way.
Ray Franz was one of the Governing Body members of Jehovah’s Witnesses so he had an inside look at how the Watchtower is run. Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t allowed to read his book because Ray Franz was disfellowshipped for apostasy. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to read any literature that brings into doubt the legitimacy of the Watchtower’s claim that they are the only spokesman from God to man. So, that leaves out anything and everything that might teach differently than what the Watchtower teaches. Jehovah’s Witnesses are banned from examining the history of their own religion, while they do encourage all others that they study with to study the history of that other religion.
You need to read Crisis of Conscience before you talk to your Witness friend the next time and these are the questions I would ask them after you have read the book. Before you ask him or her any questions, first make it clear to them that you have read that book. Since you are not a Witness, you are allowed to read it. If any one of Jehovah’s Witnesses were allowed to read that book and read it, they would not be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses anymore, so that’s why it’s so very important that the Watchtower Society doesn’t want any of it’s followers to read that book.
Questions to ask your friend:
Have you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz (allow to answer and most likely will say no)
Ask why not? (allow to answer and will most likely say it’s because he was an apostate)
Ask them to define what is an apostate? (let them answer)
Ask them then if he got disfellowshipped for apostasy, it had to be after he turned apostate right? (They will say yes)
Ask them then what about the books he wrote for the Watchtower when he wasn’t disfellowshipped, such as the Aid to Bible Understanding and the James books? Would you (friend) consider those also to be apostate reading? (They won’t know what to say)
Ask them, at what point do you think his writing would be considered apostate? (They won’t know what to say)
Ask them, what if Ray Franz, when he was still in good standing, disagreed with the majority of the Governing Body when it came to major Watchtower policy? Would you say then that he was going against the Holy Spirit since he was going against what the majority said was the “truth?” (Let them answer. They won’t know what to say, but they might think that he was going against Holy Spirit.
Ask them if as long as the majority made major decisions affecting the rest of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then the Holy Spirit would be helping them to make a correct decision then? (They’d probably say yes)
Tell the Witness friend that when Ray Franz was on the Governing Body in 1972, the majority of the Governing Body made it policy that it wasn’t adultery for a man to have sex relations with an animal or another man but it was Ray Franz who went against the majority of the Governing Body and argued that it was adultery and grounds for divorce.
Ask that friend of yours: So who do you think had the Holy Spirit, Ray Franz or the Governing Body? (Let them answer) They would have to say Ray Franz or else why would the Watchtower have had to just a few months later, admit they had made a mistake it was adultery and grounds for divorce and print a retraction.
So, the last question to your Witness friend would be: So, why do you think that the Watchtower disfellowshipped Ray Franz, when he obviously did have the Holy Spirit and the rest did not? Do, you think it’s possible that they disfellowshipped him to keep him quiet so he would not be able to tell anybody about how the Watchtower does not have God’s Holy Spirit after all and that’s why his books are banned?????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 29, 2014 at 10:43 am

Hi Oscar. I have done a little more research and I wanted to add to my last comment to you.
Before you start asking your Witness friend the questions that I posted to you above, I would like to have you start out with this questions first:
What would you think of a religion that told it’s members that it was not scriptural grounds for divorce and remarry if one of the mates had homosexual intercourse with someone other than their mate or if they had sex with animals and that the innocent mate had to stay with that person. If they did divorce and remarry, they’d be excommunicated? What would you think of that religion?
(Allow for response. They will probably think it’s a terrible religion)
Ask your friend: Is this a religion you would want to belong to? Do you think God could be approving and blessing a religion like that?
Now Oscar this is for your information and this is a direct quote from the 1956 Watchtower Oct. 1, page 591 “Sodomy (or the unnatural intercourse of one male with another male as with a female), Lesbianism (or the homosexual relations between women), and bestiality (or the unnatural sexual relations by a man or woman with an animal) are not scriptural grounds for divorce.”
This was official Watchtower policy from at least 1956 until the December 1972 page 767 Watchtower when it was Ray Franz who was able to convince the rest of the Governing Body the error of the Watchtower’s ways and they decided it was adultery and grounds for divorce after all.
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 29, 2014 at 11:10 am

Oscar, you can relate what that 1956 Watchtower says and they can look it up if they don’t believe you, which they probably won’t but they might come back with the “that’s old light” excuse but then you could say “no, it wouldn’t be old light because they restated the very same policy in the 1972 Watchtower January 1, pages 31, 32.
Your Witness friend won’t have an answer for that. You, knowing all this is something your friend has been purposely kept in the dark about. It’s a cult and not a very good one at that. Run as fast as you can from it and don’t get involved. That is my advice if you want to be happy.
Reply
 

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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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148 Responses to Welcome

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 anonymous says:

 October 29, 2014 at 11:31 am

and Oscar, in that 1956 Watchtower quoted above about marriage, it said that the reason why there is so much marital unhappiness is that a lot of women don’t realize that they are “inferior” to men. Need I say more????
Reply
 
 holy connoli says:

 June 3, 2015 at 1:35 am

@anonymous? Do you know if we can still read the 1956 Watchtower on line? If I go to JW.orf do you think the articles will go back that far? I would like to see and read that quote.
Thanks,
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 3, 2015 at 4:58 am

@holy connoli, I don’t think you can. I got a 1956 bound volume off of Ebay but they are far and few in between. If you can get one though, grab it. Those articles are eye-opening as far as how the Society views women. I think that is why you can’t get those old Watchtower articles on jw online library. If you can find it, I would be curious though.
Reply
 
 holy connoli says:

 June 3, 2015 at 10:00 am

@anonymous. I had a bunch of old WT from the 1940’s nd 1950’s that I found in an old sisters house after she died about 20 years ago. I kept them for a while and then gave them away to a pioneer sister and she was going to put them in the Kingdom hall Library. Maybe they are still there but I doubt it. I used to like reading the Old WT’s at the time I thought they were pretty deep but now I realize they were just “WEIRD” interpretations that sounded like they were so deep! Now they disregard all that stuff ha!
 If I can get hold of them I will let you know.
Reply
 
 
 
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 1:11 am

and Oscar, to add to my last comment. You might also ask your Witness friend why it was not adultery and grounds for divorce in that religion for a man to have sex relations with another man or an animal for all those years but at the very same time if the husband had a vasectomy so his wife couldn’t get pregnant and she had artificial insemination so she could have a child, that was grounds for divorce for the husband so he could get rid of his wife??????
Ask your Witness friend if they would want to belong to that religion?????
Believe it or not, that still is the case today. That has never been done away with in the Watchtower.
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 1:18 am

and Oscar, since the man knew he was sterile, he could turn his wife in for adultery and get a divorce from her for adultery her because she had artificial insemination and she would be disfellowshipped for that. That is the demonic thinking and background of the Jehovah’s Witness religion. Do you really want to belong to a religion that treats women like that?????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:17 am

and Oscar, another way a man can divorce his wife for adultery is if she survives a rape (Watchtower June 1, 1968 page 348). If a woman survives an attack, not only will her husband be able to divorce her for adultery, she could be disfellowshipped for adultery as well. Who do you think is the God of this religion???? It sure sounds demonic to me……
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:24 am

and Oscar, in the Jehovah’s Witness religion, if a child is molested and raped, they have to have two witnesses to the molestation or rape or if they do not have witnesses and the attacker denies the attack, the elders will do nothing to the attacker and if the victim should report the attack or molestation to the police, it will be the child or adult victim who could be threatened with being shunned because of that child would be the one bringing reproach on the Organization and not the attacker.
What do you think of a religion like that? Do you really think a loving and just God could be at the helm????? Or does it sound more like a Satanic religion????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:33 am

and Oscar, if you or your child should be in an accident and need a blood transfusion, in this religion you can’t take the blood to save your life or your child’s life or you will be disfellowshipped. The Watchtower religion says not to worry though because even if you or your child should die, at least you were faithful to the Watchtower God and he will resurrect you back on the earth, where there is not one single scripture that tells you that in the Bible. You are just to take their word for it.
Kind of sounds like what the serpent told Eve in the Garden of Eden, doesn’t it??????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:40 am

and Oscar, just to add some frosting on the cake: If you ever decide to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and get baptized into it, and you found out that the the Watchtower is lying to you, you are not allowed to disassociate yourself from it for the rest of your life. If you do, you will be disfellowshipped and shunned for the rest of your life and not allowed to talk to anybody still in that religion, even if it’s your own relatives.
Is that the kind of religion you really want to be part of?????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 2:51 am

and Oscar, if you ever go to a meeting at the Kingdom Hall, all the Witnesses are trained to “love bomb” you to make you think they will just love you to pieces if you become one of them, but the moment you doubt any of the teachings, they will drop you like a hot brick.
Does this sound like a cult to you??????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:00 am

and Oscar, if you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you will be judged on how you look, how much you participate at meetings and how many hours you get in service. If you don’t measure up, you are considered weak and bad association…. Also, there’s over 1,000 rules you must follow or you will be considered bad association if you should break those rules…..
Are you sure this is the life for you??????
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:08 am

and Oscar, they will tell you that they are the only religion going from door to door preaching the Bible and even that isn’t true because Mormons do it too. But it doesn’t matter to them that what they preach from door to door, can’t be proven in the Bible or not. It’s just important to them that they go from door to door and to them, that is enough for them to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and think that they are the only ones approved by God. If you don’t do all of this, you will be considered a weed and killed at Armageddon. They are that self-righteous.
Don’t be fooled into believing this. The Witnesses have been tricked into this religion by scare tactics and they are brainwashed. I know because I was one for 50 years.
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:48 am

and Oscar, if you do decide to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you have to say good bye to ever going to any R rated movies again, or reading any literature other than Watchtower literature and you had better not talk about anything you saw on television or looking at anything on the internet except jw.org or you will be considered bad association. The only thing other Witnesses want to hear from you is experiences you had in service. Anything else is frowned on. That is drummed into Witnesses in almost every Watchtower magazine and don’t even think about telling an off-color joke or using a cuss word unless you want to be kicked out on your heels.
Is that the kind of straight jacket life for you????? If so, then being a Jehovah’s Witness is perfect for you.
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 6:49 am

and Oscar, if you do decide to go ahead and have a “book, Bible” study with your witness friend, expect your friend to listen to you and be your best friend all the time you are “studying” with them but you will be expected to “progress” in the “truth” to going to every meeting (5 meetings a week) and every assembly (3 assemblies every year). If you don’t “progress”, you will be dropped and you will be very hurt by the experience so if you want to keep this Witness as your friend, you had better “progress” in the “truth”. Right now, unless you are a Witness, you are “bad association” for them, even though they won’t come right out and tell you that.
Once you are regular at meetings, you will be expected to progress to answering and preparing for all those meetings and joining the ministry school and giving Bible talks in front of the congregation. But yay, they clap for you when you give your first talk, making you feel like a “star”.
You will be expected to progress to going from door to door. You will be expected to “pioneer” or have a darn good excuse not to do it. If you are unable to “pioneer” (70 hours door to door every month), you are to have the “pioneer” spirit.
If you are a man, you are expected to “progress” to being an elder and that is spending endless hours preparing for talks, giving talks and going to the Kingdom Hall for endless meetings and leaving your family at home most of the time.
You will be expected to give up all your Saturdays and Sundays for the talk and Watchtower study and for going from door to door and if you get old enough to retire, you will be expected to use all those extra hours you now have to “pioneer” or have a good excuse not to.
You will be expected to marry only somebody who is also one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You will not be allowed to send your children to college or you will be looked down on but you will sit in your Kingdom Hall, surrounded by people who did go to college before they became a Jehovah’s Witness, and see them be the “toast” of the congregation but because you didn’t go to college and can’t afford a nice house or nice car, people will gravitate to those who did go to college and have the nice cars and lots of money.
If you have children, you will be overlooked as an elder, unless your child gets baptized at an early age and if your child doesn’t fit the mold (does something wrong or doesn’t want to go to Bethel and pioneer when they get out of high school), you will be deleted as an elder because you didn’t raise your child properly.
Forget vacations. They will be spent at assemblies. That is the only time you are allowed to spend any money that you might have saved up during your year. If you are able to have a vacation where you don’t have to spend it at assemblies, you will have to take meeting clothes along so you don’t miss any meetings wherever you spend your vacation.
Right now, I can’t really think of anything good about being a Jehovah’s Witness, except that they won’t go to war but I am still thinking…….
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 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:04 am

and Oscar, if you do get married and your mate decides to leave you and divorces you, you are not allowed to remarry, unless your mate remarries first or admits to adultery or you will be disfellowshipped.
Does this religion still sound appealing to you?????
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 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:18 am

Oscar, I thought of one good thing. You don’t have to spend money on Christmas presents anymore. You won’t have to spend money on birthday presents anymore or valentines cards or mother’s days gifts or father’s day gifts. You won’t be able to celebrate Thanksgiving with your family anymore because you don’t want to give any of your relatives the impression that you celebrate Thanksgiving day. The only friends your children will be allowed to have are Witness kids. Your kids will have to go out in the hall every time there’s some kind of holiday that your kids won’t be able to partake of. You will have to sit while everybody stands for the National Anthem. Your kids won’t be able to say the pledge at school. Your kids will be expected to preach to their school mates as that’s their own “personal territory”. Your kids won’t be able to join the football team or be a cheerleader or go to school dances.
Are you there yet? Sound good to you????
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 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:27 am

and Oscar, I thought of another good thing. You will save money on lottery tickets because you aren’t allowed to gamble even if it’s just one lottery ticket. You can’t say gosh, golly or gee because that’s swearing. You can’t vote and can’t get involved in political talk because then you aren’t being neutral. You can’t play chess because that’s too violent.
I am still trying to think of some good things about being a Witness, but I am running out of space in my brain…..
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 anonymous says:

 October 30, 2014 at 7:28 am

and Oscar, last but not least is you are not allowed to think. The Watchtower has already done that for you.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 October 30, 2014 at 11:51 am

Oscar
You cannot get involved in Politics or vote but the WT can Secretly Join the United nations and promote it and then as soon as it is found out 10 years later they immediately withdraw from the UIN and claim they only joined to do Library research? That is an out right lie bc you do not need to join to do library research. They also TEACH that ALL governments are from Satan but yet they have applied to receive Government money in Countries like Sweden, Norway and others just like the state gives money to the Lutheran Church and Catholic Church as well but they have to be approved? So the WT is or has received Money from Satan’s governments to support themselves. Also all governments are from Satan but yet they apply and use the World Court systems and European international Court to promote themselves and make sure their rights are not violated. SO I guess Satan is helping them since he runs the government right?
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 Rosie says:

 October 30, 2014 at 3:03 pm

Oscar
One other thing, if you are still thinking that becoming a JW could be a good idea. If you have close friends who do not want to join you in becoming a JW – you will no longer be allowed to have any friendship with them. You will be advised that they are bad associations.
I can recall a young lady who started studying with the JWs. She was warmly embraced into the bosom of the congregation (love bombed) and invited to all the congregational social occasions. Unfortunately she had a very close friend (a very nice lady) who although willing to meet her new JW friends did not want to join her in studying in order to become one.
I watched as the Sister who studied with her (along with others in the congregation), brutally and cruelly severed the long and close relationship between these two friends until they no longer had any contact with each other.
Please take heed of what Anonymous has written. This JW organisation is like the apple that Snow White ate in the fairy-tale. Rosy in appearance on the outside but full of poison within.
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 CARLOS says:

 November 3, 2014 at 7:02 am

The brothers in charge are just doing the best they can, The interest is pleasing God.
Don’t like this group? Join one that lets you have more freedom, one that lets you be you.
Want to hear what you like and not what is correct. then there are many other groups that seem like they do but really don’t.
Or better yet don’t belong to a group, just do yr own thing.
If you hate structure and organization, don’t be a JW
I could not be happier after 56 years of being a witness, and i have seen not all but a great deal.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 November 3, 2014 at 10:59 am

Carlos
It isn’t about hating structure or not. It is about being part of a dictatorship or not. It is about accepting or rejecting abuse by an Organization that try’s to controls your every waking hour and thoughts. It is about belonging to a Religion that separates and destroys families if someone in the religion just happens to disagree with a teaching or a “New Light” ever changing prophecy. If the WT had a track record of being correct on anything that would be one thing but their record is HORRIBLE, their predictions are off the chart WRONG but yet they discriminate against anyone who says hey, I cannot accept that line of thought based on past practice and I cannot accept never ever being able to have a relationship with my family. children, spouse or friends if I do no accept the teaching of WT.
Why should we accept the 2 witness rule for child molestation and the hidden secrets of the WT on policy making in this regard? It is morally Wrong, and illegal from a human standpoint. So may issues with the WT ever changing teachings, So it isn’t about structure Carlos it is about damage control and hurt that they cause and have caused over 100 years.
Can you name 1 PROPHECY that they have uttered or predicted that has proven true? Just 1. Please don’t be vague. Be Specific and point out true facts of fulfilling prophecy by the WT.
Glad you are in a good place Carlos but we have to be honest in our viewpoints of accuracy. Many of the JW’s I have recently spoke with on the “NEW LIGHT” Generation explanation are now saying it doesn’t really matter to me if 1914 is true or not? Really? Wow! This was and is the Central teaching of the JW’s for the last 80 years. They were SO Forthright that there was no room for error and so convincing that Jesus came in 1914 and the Generation ABOSLUTELEY without ANY DOUBT would no t Pass away before the New Order came. There was no room for discussion. You as a 56 year old member no doubt recall EVERY AWAKE Magazine Published it on the inside cover until it became evident that they were SO WRONG! Do they acknowledge their error? Do they apologize? Do they say anything about the other DUFF Prophecies?
False predications are only 1 item we are discussing here. Can you please show me 1 prediction or prophecy they said that came true? Just one.
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 anonymous says:

 November 3, 2014 at 11:25 am

Carlos, can you find even one scripture in the Bible that says that the earth is going to be turned into a paradise?
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 Holy Connoli says:

 November 9, 2014 at 3:07 am

Carlos? With all due respect to you in sincerity can you answer my questions about accuracy of Prophecy from the Watchtower please?
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 Cacanisso says:

 December 10, 2014 at 7:50 am

My mother in law during his life, fought fervently to bring people to JW (house preaching at home). Today, is a home of the 3rd Age, and for 07 years, never seen there, a stupor of JW or WT or Tvgia, to wonder, how many hours does a month, or you need diapers or have other needs, perhaps esperitual up, nothing. As had legs to walk from house to house, they said the brother was very s spiritual. Today, no one seeks to know it. My mother, constantly giving, or deposited in the box and contributions paid once € 700 / dollars, the chairs of a hall of Albufeira, Algarve. I’ve never been caught by WT, because me and my wife, we are smart, never let it be manipuados by the mind control.
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 Johnny p says:

 December 19, 2014 at 5:38 pm

I find it interesting that so many ex-jw’s end up being atheist or agnostic. Does anyone else find that interesting or telling?
They learn while being a JW how backwards other churches and religions are, but then when they realize the WT has its dark side, it becomes unthinkable to continue the search in earnest – and so many revert to atheism or agnosticism. I find that sad, and it leaves me realizing that while it may be true WT doesn’t have “the (whole) truth”, its not as if anti-WT people have any “sayings of everlasting life”. These sites just leave me more thirsty than anything.
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 Johnny p says:

 December 19, 2014 at 5:58 pm

Holy: Why do you care what Carlos believes? Do you have some better religion you plan on sharing with him? If he is happy in being a JW for 56 years – why is it your job to change his mind?
Again, I find it very curious why someone agnostic (not saying you are – but the website owner) thinks showing people why JWs are false is good for people like Carlos. If you dont have something better to relate – or “good news” to share – then you just want to tear him down to believe nothing? Its like bothering to tell everyone on the Titanic who was praying and crying to God that no one was listening and they had no hope of a heavenly life – just for kicks.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 December 23, 2014 at 2:18 pm

Johnny P
Fair question you asked.
 First Let me say I am not an agnostic or atheist.
 Never have been. Even before my 20 plus years with the JW’s.I will ask the JW’s the same question? Why are they “HELL BENT” on changing other peoples belief to the JW belief? Why is their entire purpose to convert other religions to their own religion. We all know that they publicly teach that EVERY OTHER religion except for the JW”S are part of the worldwide false religious structure known as “BABYLON” the Great correct? That includes ALL Christian and non Christian religions.
 Every last one of them all soon to be destroyed at the battle of Armageddon.So if these othe non JW’s are happy why do they bug them and tell them they are so wrong? Why do they try to convert them to the JW’s?
That being said, I was originally answering a question that Carlos proposed about religious structure and I answered him.There could be people “happy” in the Hari Krishnas, or the Scientologists or the Moonies,or the Jim Jones Cult, or the David Koresh people in Texas etc.That doesn’t mean I cannot give an opinion. The question was put up who else has sayings of everlasting life? According to the Bible only Jesus does. Not some religious organization or sect. The point I made is you do not have to belong to some Exclusive group to have salvation. Nowhere does the bible state that. It says only Jesus has sayings of eternal life. Not the Catholics, Muslims, or the WT Org.I will ask you the same question in sincerity that I asked Carlos and many others. Can you show me explicitly 1… just 1 prediction or prophecy that proves beyond a doubt that the JW’s foretold am major prophecy accurately? Or that 1 thing they said came explicitly true in the past 75 years? Please don’t refer to some general event. I mean Specifically something the WT has ever said that came true on time without a doubt?
I was tying to get Carlos to think that is all, He doesn’t have to belong tot he WT to have Gods blessing. That is the whole thing with Cults. They brainwash their member s to think they have special favor or inside information on God that no OTHER group has in the entire earth. The WT has done a good Job at doing that to its members.
So I ask you if you can please show me one prophecy or prediction in the last 75 years or ever that the WT has undisputable proof that what they said came true?
Peace to all
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 Grace formally Thankyouall! says:

 December 19, 2014 at 6:16 pm

I suppose it depends on what sayings of everlasting life you are looking for johnny p. I think you’re assuming much if you think that most become athiest or agnostic. If you believe the essence of Jesus’ teachings it seems clear that he came to lighten up the overburdened sheep from the pharisaical leadership & to give each person the dignity to discern for themselves what is right & wrong from the principals he set forth with his parables.
Sayings of everlasting life is a personal thing. Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual needs. Spirituality relies on personal faith & not how you are perceived to look or act or obedience to a man made entity.
Since I stepped back in to the ‘world’ away from wt indoctrination, I have come to appreciate just how spiritual many people are in the ‘world’. People who show a more loving spirit without judgement than what I experienced with the so called true Christians. I had to step outside though to really appreciate that.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 December 23, 2014 at 2:01 pm

Johnny P
 Did you get my last response ?
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 Honesty says:

 March 27, 2015 at 7:04 am

Now I see, I just realized what this website is really all about. YOU ARE (APOSTATES!!!) Now I clearly understand the faulty critisim and lies! You were disfellowshiped! No wonder you’re angry or bitter, and speak against Jehovah and his true worshippers! So now I really putty you all. What a waste…lol
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 Holy Connoli says:

 March 27, 2015 at 10:44 am

Honesty. Really? It took you that long to figure out that people on here are not promoters of the WT and the JW cult? No one is hiding the position they are taking. Unlike the WT that tries to hide their true past and all the errors and mistakes they made and continue to make. If the WT was honest they would come out and admit their errors and hundreds of false duff prophecies and change their ways. Of course they won’t do that bc they are not humble and certainly not honest with their past or present. Can I ask you the same question I have asked dozens and perhaps hundreds of other JW’s?
Can you show me 1. Just one accurate prophecy the JW”s have spoken over the last 135 years of their existence that has come true without a doubt?
 They have uttered and predicted many many things and to my knowledge not ONE thing has come true. Please don’t be general and quote 1:tim 3:1-5 I mean specific like who is the King of the North and King of the South? When is Gods Kingdom coming ? Why is 1914 been reinterpreted again? How come the 1914 generation is gone and nothing happened that they said without a doubt it would? Gog of Magog? The WT has flip floppedso MANY times how do you know what to believe anymore? It reminds me of all the other religions that have been proved wrong on their predictions of the end of the world. JW’s are no different at all except they are meaner than most of the other ones. So I ask you in sincerity ? Can you show me one prophecy the JW’s have predicated that has come true in the last 135 years? Just 1 with accuracy.
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 A says:

 May 5, 2015 at 6:40 pm

if Paul told us to keep the congressional clean , then why does God allow wheat and weeds grow together?
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 Holy Connoli says:

 May 5, 2015 at 7:31 pm

Honesty
I was never disfellowshipped. I am not considered an apostate but the truth is the WT is a Hypocritical religion full of duff fake prophecies and they hide the truth about themselves and the inner chambers and secrets of what goes on in the GB.I was an Elder for 12 years and many other “privileges” We have to face reality and just read what the true history of the WT is and how they hide their own sins to look good to the public. They have rewritten their own history to trey to put s great picture of themselves but the truth is they lie. They are cruel and they divide and hurt families. NOT ONE prophecy they have ever said has come true. PLEASE NAME me 1 accurate prophecy they have uttered that is true? Just 1undeniable prediction or prophecy that they can prove beyond a doubt?. This is my challenge to you and any other JW apologists.
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 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 8:23 am

Honesty
really
 you were an elder??
this is all about salvation… this is not a social club
 please then
“honesty”…
honestly tell me what the true religion you now go to for salvation…
or have you now become atheist or agnostic
 please… i’m listening
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 Cedars says:

 June 1, 2015 at 8:29 am

There are three possibilities on the table:
 1) That all religions are true
 2) That all religions are false
 3) That only one religion is true
 The first proposition is clearly impossible, since most religions (including yours) tend to be mutually exclusive.
 My position, that of proposition 2, is the most easily defensible of the three, and explains why there is so much carnage and immorality in the holy books (because religion is man-made).
 If you maintain that proposition 3 is correct, and furthermore that your religion just happens to be the right one, the burden of proof is on you to convince me and everyone else that Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone, have been chosen as the one true religion by the Creator of the universe.
Prove this, and I will take down this website and my YouTube channel.
Good luck.



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 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 8:26 am

my comments were directed to holy canoli
 the former elder… who only severed for ?? what reason again??
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 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 12:25 pm

Not all religions are true…
You need to do the work to find out which one is… I have…
Not all religions are false… I have done the work and have drawn the conclusion that Jehovah’s witness have it…
Only one way can be true by definition… there is only one way to do something right…
You position is very very myopic and short sighted… when measured against the bible
 There is such a concept as faith
 What have you put your faith in??
 Jehovah’s witness have put their faith in the bible… and thus all your bashing should be measured against it…
We are not perfect and do not claim perfection…. We attempt to serve God according to what the bible instructs… if we get it wrong we attempt to modify and move forward…
It is not for you to determine how we are to act…
The whole message from the bible is who has the right to dictate…
A lot of the observations stated here are true… so what… ill state it again… it is about salvation… this is not a social club…
We communicate the truth as we understand it from the bible… if you think the world is a better place without Jehovah… enjoy… no one is twisting your arm… we are not killing anyone… let the internet educate you and guide your life…
But… according to the bible… as all JW’s discussions should be directed from… there will be a settling of matters… and Jehovah… or the God you may know as the creator of all things… will
 I do not need to prove anything to you
 It seems you are a hater of all religion good or bad… but just want to lash out at JW’s
 I don’t believe in the god of good luck
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 anonymous says:

 June 1, 2015 at 1:00 pm

@apologist, I was in this religion for 50 years so I know what you are saying is what we all believed at one time. I have another challenge for you. Take out your Bible and read Numbers chapter 31 all the way through and tell me how much you love serving Jehovah then. Please do that and come back and defend that God, Jehovah. Something that I don’t want you to miss is how after Moses is to go and kill thousands of Midianites for supposedly no reason at all, they were to take all their hundreds of thousands of animals and all their little girls and the booty was taxed and if I am not mistaken, 10% of the booty was to go to the Levites, including 10% all the little girls that they captured, having had killed their mothers and fathers and little brothers. Can you answer why the Levites would need all those little girls????? This is the God you worship.
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 Cedars says:

 June 1, 2015 at 12:30 pm

“I have done the work and have drawn the conclusion that Jehovah’s witness have it…”
Should I take that as an attempted answer to my challenge?
“We are not perfect and do not claim perfection….”
No, you just punish former members who no longer agree with you through shunning, and threaten anyone who doesn’t want to be a Witness with death at Armageddon. How humble.
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 apologist says:

 June 1, 2015 at 2:08 pm

Anonymous
 It took you 50 years to realize you could not stomach decisions made by the creator
 I think quite a few people died with the flood…
But… its ok
 You tell God how to behave…
Btw… what belief system do you follow now…
Have you found a better one… please tell me… if there is a better one I will follow…
Cedars…
you have no challenge… you do not make any sense
 if salvation exists… there is only one way to get it… if not by JW’s then by who
 as opposed to… religion is man made…
if you were ever a witness you know that from the bibles perspective there is salvation and it boils down to belief
 You just want attention and that is why you have created this site which is not a Neutral place of expression…
Are you a former member that feels punished… what did you think you were joining the girls club
 This is about serving GOD… JEHOVAH GOD
 Who are you to say it is wrong to shun bad behavior
 Noooooooo lets accept anything we want
 This is so funny you guys treat religion like it is a club that you no longer want part of because it is just too hard
 Did you guys ever read what is in the bible…. It is not easy serving God… especially when all this world wants is to hurt people… how can I place myself in Gods head to understand why in Numbers… as stated by anonymous… that happened
 Remember
 The belief is that this system is coming to an end
 You do not think that people will die???
 Again… a belief…don’t like it … don’t believe!!!
 It is not about this life… it is about the other life
 Faith
 Remember
 Cedars…
Please provide a better solution than to be a witness I challenge you!!!
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 Excelsior! says:

 June 1, 2015 at 2:24 pm

apologist,
Why do you, and so many other JW supporters, fail to write at an adult level?
Why do you fail to use question marks when asking a question?
Why do you use elipses incorrectly?
Why do you even bother to comment at all?
You and your ilk are all the same! You have no concept of logic, reason or sense!
Why don’t you do yourself and us a favour? Go and do your own research into your religion, buy a non JW bible, and go and read it, without the WT commentary.
Go and do something kind for someone less fortunate than yourself, that would make JESUS happy indeed!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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 anonymous says:

 June 1, 2015 at 3:03 pm

@apologist, have you ever researched the history of the Bible and how we got it? We were always told from Watchtower that the Bible is inspired or God breathed and you should know there is not even one original manuscript from the original writers of the Bible so no Bible is actually inspired of God. They are copies of copies and translations of translations. There is no proof at all that any Bible today was actually transcribed by God (if there is a God).
Did you realize if you read your Bible that when Moses left Egypt, he went to live in Midian and married a Midianite girl and had Midianite children and then in Numbers chapter 31, for no reason at all, God tell him to go and kill all the Midianites? He had just left Midian and his father-in-law Jethro helped him with his judging of the Israelites and Jethro goes back to Midian and then in Numbers, he is to go and kill every man, woman and child in Midian, except for all the little girls were their booty. They were supposed to check those little girls to make sure they had never had intercourse with a man. How do you think they would have done that? Then, 90% of those girls, they could keep for themselves and the rest they had to give to the Levite priests at the Temple.
You say that I am telling God what he can do? I don’t have to worship a God like that but if you want to, go ahead. Just don’t judge anybody else if they don’t want to. And yes, it took me 50 years to figure it out that it’s all fiction. That is why I don’t hold it against any God because I don’t believe any of it happened in the first place. Even the Awake magazine had an article in the April 8, 2004 issue pages 1,2 Titled “Moses- Man or Myth?” that said that there is no physical evidence that Moses ever existed or that there was ever the Exodus.
You should read your magazines.
As far as giving you a replacement religion, why is that anybody’s else’s responsibility? Lloyd has given a very good illustration and you should pay attention to it. If somebody comes along and warns you during the night that your house is on fire and gets you out of the house, is it his responsibility then to provide you with a new house?????
Think about it.
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 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 5:52 am

@apologist, I am waiting for you to come back and defend your God. Where are you????
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 anonymous says:

 June 1, 2015 at 3:18 pm

Lloyd has a good illustration and this is it. If somebody comes along and sees that your house is on fire and it is night time and you are most likely sleeping and he knocks on your door and wakes you up so you can escape being burned to death in your house fire, is it then that person’s responsibility to provide you with a new house?
Yes, sorry to say but it did take me 50 years to “wake” up. Your coming onto this web site is a good sign that maybe you aren’t afraid to learn a thing or two if you stick around a while.
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 holy connoli says:

 June 2, 2015 at 3:28 am

Apologist?
 You said it took 50 years to not agree with decisions made by the Creator? Which decisions from the all knowing perfect Creator are you referring to in the last 50 years? Do you mean the ever , ever changing doctrines of 1914, the F&DS,
 the sheep and the goats, The type and the anti type ( may 15th 2015 WT study article ) The basis for scriptural divorce, If you can or cannot speak with a DF person, Gog of Magog, The king of the North and the King of the South, Who will and will not be resurrected, If you can or cannot serve on a jury, if you can vote or not, What is considered sacred service?,If you should have children or marry in this system or just pioneer,1918 and 1919 and if they are bible prophecy being full filled,
 Does Jehovah have his own planet he dwells on?,
 the declension to “SECRETELY” join the UN an then quickly resign when it became public,all the other many many decesions and flip flop teachings that the T continually changes… so are thoise the decisions you are referring to from the Creator who never makes a mistake and knows the end before the beginning? Either the Wt or Jehovah the Creator have it wrong. I will opt that the WT is the wrong one here! You cannot based on the track record of the WT connect God and the WWT as one and the same.
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 Grace says:

 June 1, 2015 at 3:23 pm

@Apologist,
When you get skinned & thrown about by the very religion your defending. We will welcome you here with open arms. It’s only a matter of time.
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 holy connoli says:

 June 2, 2015 at 3:06 am

Apologist:
 You claim that the JWs get all their info from the bible. That is only true to the extent that YOU MUST believe their explanation of it and only theirs. If you dare have a different understanding of the bible you will be Disfellowshipped if you dare speak of it.
You mention this is not a “SOCIAL CLUB” but is about salvation. Actually the JW’s act more like a social club than a real social club! They have SO MANY MAN MADE Social Rules you must observe to be a member in good standing. Hair cuts, must wear a tie or suit, No Beards,
 no pants for woman, Must report Hours of field service each month, You cannot play on a sports team, No cheerleading, Cannot support your school, you cannot attend the prom,no dating, no cub scouts, no boy scouts,
 no girl scouts, you cannot attend a wedding at another church, you cannot attend the funeral of even a family member at another church, No Celebrations at all! No wind chimes, No toasting at a retirement party, the list goes on and on and on and on! If you ever dare to leave this “Religious Social Club” you will be punished and your own family, children cannot talk with you ? That is insanity! So if we are talking about salvation are these man made derogatory rules necessary for Salvation? The Bible is clear on salvation. It is not thru a religious system or religious organization but only thru faith in God and thru Jesus. Christianity is a simple faith. The WT and other religious cults has made it difficult. They tie all kinds of weights around the necks of believers and throw the guilt of God’s disfavor on them continually..you cannot earn salvation it is a gift.
I asked apologist to show me just 1 prediction or prophecy that the WT has made in 135 years that has come true without any fuzzy explanation. What have they directly predicted that proved accurate historically
 without a doubt. Show mw a prediction the WT uttered that you can point to and say see, HERE IT IS! We said this event would happen on this day and this year and this time and here it is. Please show me one that is true that they have EVER uttered.
Reply
 

 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 7:15 am

I’m here
 working on my response
 comments coming shortly
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 7:55 am

I can hardly wait….
Reply
 
 

 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 7:25 am

Excelsior… excelsior… excelsior
 Your concern is my writing ability??
 Elipses??
 Why comment… I thought this is a place to express ones thoughts… only your one sided ones count then… hmmmm
 I have no concept of logic… reason… or sense… please defend this statement… be specific… otherwise it makes no logic reason or sense… it then just becomes an attack statement… are you afraid you might learn something… hmmmm
 Buddy
 I’ve done my research… and can defend its findings
 My reply to you is being kind… because you seem like a lost cause… you only attack and say nothing at all…
Please take a stand and defend it.
Reply
 

 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 10:12 am

looks like cedars is blocking me from answering
 oh well… on him not me
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 June 2, 2015 at 10:33 am

If I’m blocking you, I’m clearly not doing a good job am I? Actually I’m letting you comment for now, because you brilliantly showcase the levels of ignorance, arrogance and credulity required to venture on this website and still defend Watchtower.
Reply
 
 

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Welcome



Welcome to JWsurvey.org, the online voice for Jehovah’s Witnesses
 of the past, present, and future.
JWsurvey.org is the proud home of the 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are, or ever have been, a Jehovah’s Witness – please take this survey! Even if you were never actually baptized or have been away from the Witnesses for many years, we encourage you to have you say and share your opinions regarding the Watch Tower Society, and its leaders the Governing Body.
If you are a current or former Witness, you will know only too well that doubts are not permitted among the brothers, and the Governing Body expects and demands your unquestioned loyalty. If there is any teaching you are uncertain of, you must “wait on Jehovah,” which effectively means burying your doubts and pretending they never existed. Over time, these suppressed doubts accumulate until you are nothing more than a robot, going through the motions and doing what is expected of you – but never truly believing it 100%.

Jehovah’s Witnesses who have doubts are expected to “wait on Jehovah” by effectively burying them

If this describes your current situation, then please be assured that there are hundreds if not thousands like you who are at various stages of waking up to the reality of the JW faith. As you probably suspect already, there is more to this religion than meets the eye, and the Watchtower literature has not been telling you the full truth about the organization’s history.
The trouble is, even if you no longer agree with the Governing Body on a number of issues, you may feel (as many do) that you are bound to the organization against your will through the cruel practice of shunning. Though the Society argues that shunning is scriptural, it is actually anything but. Shunning was instituted by the Apostle Paul to keep congregations clean – not as an instrument for tearing families apart.
This and many other damaging practices are dealt with periodically on my blog, which I encourage you to check from time to time. I do my very best to keep Witnesses informed as to what is REALLY going on in the organization, rather than giving them the kind of carefully-manicured information you will find in JW.org articles and press releases.
Please enjoy using this site, and treat it as though it is yours. After all, here you are free to be yourself and exchange opinions about the organization with others. All we ask is that you do NOT try to use our website as a platform for evangelizing religious or atheistic views. This website is religiously-neutral and has been set up as an indoctrination-free sanctuary. We appreciate your help and cooperation in keeping it that way.
We hope you find the information on JWsurvey useful, and that our efforts can play some part in your spiritual journey. Remember: You are no longer the silent majority. Your opinion matters. Now make it count!




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148 Responses to Welcome

← Older Comments

 apologist says:

 June 2, 2015 at 10:15 am

Anonymous
 If there is a god? It took you 50 years… half a century to figure out that it is all one big story…
ok…
fantastic for you… you figured it out… I do not agree with you… I believe…
So where do we stand?
 You do not believe… tell the world from the mountain tops… go door to door to tell people that there is no god… knock yourself out… you have that right… Please do…
But if you want to quote scripture… that is a different story… my understanding here is that we are not to be preachy… so I have resisted quoting scripture…
Also…
Your issue is that the bible is just a story…
I am confused as to what you want to talk about…
I believe the bible is true… you do not… one issue…
2nd issue… if it were true… god is bad… according to the section in numbers you keep quoting… I believe God is love… obviously a conflict… one which you have not resolved… I have…
Two very different issues…
Actually you state a 3rd issue… judgment…
I do not judge you… I will be judged by a judge… who I believe (you do not) that he will judge all…
My belief system commands me to share this knowledge… it is my religion… I live and a free society that allows this… if me acting on my beliefs disturbs you… you need to remind yourself where you have chosen to live…
You not believing in a god may disturb me… but I have to accept it…
On reading the magazines (you seem to enjoy them)
 I do read the magazines… just because there is no physical evidence… does not… in my opinion… mean it did not happen or exist… that is why it is called a belief… that is why it is faith… in Gods word… the bible…
I am not asking for a replacement religion…
Using your illustration… JW’s have provided you the house to save you from the fire…
You do not like the house they are providing….
What I am asking then… is that house on fire a better place for JW’s?
 If you do not agree that your house is on fire and the JW has made a mistake… please be kind to the JW… who is attempting to be kind to you… and tell him how the house you are living in is a better place… or is it not something you want to do… which is ok too…
Look obviously this forum is from people who do not like JW’s… either they were one before and feel duped…mistreated… etc… or they have family members who are JW’s and they do not like how they behave…
You know that JW’s want to follow a religion… they truly believe they have found the one true religion… if you then say they are full of it… fine that is your right… but we as individuals still want to be part of the religion that we feel Jesus Christ formed… we believe it is the Jehovah’s Witness religion.
 Simple stating that we are wrong does nothing… even if we are wrong… we are ok with it…
THAT… is why I ask which one is better… because if there isn’t one… measured against the scriptures… then YES we are the true religion… measured against the scriptures…
As to me being afraid…
I am not afraid… It is my lack of fear that allowed me to discover the one true faith…
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 1:31 pm

@apologist, I didn’t say that I don’t believe in God. I just said if there is a God, there is no proof that this God penned our modern Bibles and you must realize that yourself, don’t you?
All we have are copies of copies and translations of those copies. There is no way one way or the other what God would have written down since all those original manuscripts are long lost and gone. You should look up the history of how we got our Bibles. That is how I began to question whether or not it was really “inspired” of God or not.
What I am saying though is that with all the killing and slaughter of innocent people in the Bible that the Israelites did in conquering the “land of milk and honey”, it would make me think twice about what a “loving” God, Jehovah is.
If you research how the name of God (Jehovah) came about, it isn’t at all what Jackson said in his latest June broadcast. It was a Catholic monk that came up with that name in the 1200’s. Jackson is either stupid or he also doesn’t read the magazines, because it’s in the old Aid to Bible Understanding book and also in the February 1, 1980 Watchtower page 11, if you don’t believe me. So, Jackson was lying through his teeth when he says that Jehovah was in the original manuscripts.
If the Bible is true and without error, then that is a God that I would not and could never love and respect. I always thought the Bible was an embellished history of the Jews but I’d rather believe now that it’s fairy tales than to believe that those Jews were that blood thirsty and after little girls that had never had intercourse with a man. I can’t hate a god that I don’t believe in, can I?
You said that this web site is for people who don’t like Jehovah’s Witnesses? That could not be further from the truth. If Lloyd really didn’t love Jehovah’s Witnesses, he’d never have started this web site. We all love Jehovah’s Witnesses because we all were JW’s and yes we were deceived and duped and hate to see that happen to our loved ones who are still in the Organization, which if you stick around we can prove to you in spades.
Being in the Organization for all those years, I wondered why the Society was so strong against any of us accepting literature from the householder would be so bad for us if we really had the “truth”. Now I know. The Society doesn’t want us to accept any literature from anything or anybody who is critical of Watchtower because they are afraid our teachings might be proved wrong.
You should not be afraid to prove that the JW religion is right. You should take Lloyd’s challenge to prove that God is really backing the JW religion. He has said that if you can prove that God is really backing the JW religion, that he will gladly take down this web sit but so far, nobody has even tried to meet the challenge. You shouldn’t just take somebody’s word for it since you are devoting your life to it.
You should be able to prove that “apostates” are really lying if they are. You shouldn’t be afraid to put your religion to the test. All those years, I followed the advice from the Watchtower and never put my faith to the test. That is something you need to do. That is all we ask of you. Take Lloyd’s challenge. It can’t hurt you and you might be surprised at the results.
Reply
 

 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 2:45 pm

@apologist, I have a sneaking suspicion that you are here counting your time but what they hey, whatever floats your boat.
I never said that I didn’t believe in God. I just said that if there is a God that there is no proof that he penned the Bible as we know it. Even the Society has to agree with that as per the foreword of the 1985 Kingdom Interlinear.
What I am saying though is that if there is a God, that I could never worship the God of the Hebrew Scriptures and if you want me to start listing all the scriptures that demonstrate it, I will be glad to start. I would prefer to think that it was fiction. I think anybody who would worship the God of the Hebrew Scriptures should be ashamed of themselves for even admitting that and I am not afraid to say that.
I am done with telling people from the rooftops of my beliefs. I did that for 50 years and found out that nothing I was telling those people was actually in the Bible and so yes I was duped.
As far as any of us commenting here, disliking JW’s, you could not be further from the truth. All of here, commenting, love Jehovah’s Witnesses.
If there was any chance that God was actually directing the JW religion, we’d all love to hear your evidence. Lloyd Evans has put that challenge out to you and anybody else defending the Watchtower and he has said that if you can prove that God is actually directing the Society that he will take down this site and I for one would go back to the Kingdom Hall. If you have any evidence, we would all love to hear it.
For people to say they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave class appointed by God, isn’t good enough. That is called circular reasoning. You need to have some kind of proof. That is what we’d all love to hear. If you have any proof, we will be listening to you.
You are right about one thing. If the JW religion is actually a Christian religion, then it should stand up against the Bible. Do you ever wonder why you are not allowed to read “apostate” literature? Can you prove any so-called apostate that they are wrong and you are right? If so, we are all ears.
What Jackson said in his June jwbroadcasting speech about Jehovah being in the Bible first in the 1600’s is a lie and he should know it but I don’t think even he reads the Watchtower literature because it was in the 1980 Feb. 1, Watchtower page 11 that that name was first invented by the Catholics in the 1200’s B.C. It is also in the old “Aid to Bible Understanding”. Don’t hit yourself over the head if you can’t keep up with all the “new light” in the literature because even the Governing Body don’t do it.
Do you realize apologist that you do not have a mediator between you and God? Jesus is only the mediator between Him and Jehovah. You should ask your elders about that. You might find yourself being called an apostate if you do that but look in the Insight book #2 under mediator for that little gem. You can learn a lot from us “apostates” if you dare to learn the truth about the “truth”.
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 5:53 pm

I meant the Jesus is the mediator between God and the 144,000 in the Insight Book #2, according to the Watchtower.
Reply
 
 

 anonymous says:

 June 2, 2015 at 2:48 pm

I meant that Jehovah was invented by the Catholic Church in the 1200’s A.D. not B.C. My mistake.
Reply
 

 apologist says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:13 pm

now I know what apostates are
 haters
 all you guys fit the bill
 if I am right or I am wrong is irrelevant
“crudulent”
big word
 it must make you feel important
 btw
 I am being blocked… I do not know if this will even get on
 no point in contuining
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 8, 2015 at 2:39 pm

@apologist, you couldn’t be more wrong. We are out to save you your life. We just love you to pieces!!!
Reply
 
 

 apologist says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:20 pm

one more comment
 if it gets on
 any time spent here
 since I am counting my time
 I will subtract from my field service time
I will never get it back from you guys
 what a waste
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:31 pm

@Apologist. I asked you a few times if you could PLEASE answer my question and show me 1 prophecy or prediction the JW’s or WT have predicted that has without doubt come true in the 135 short yes of their existence? Please be specific and not general. I have asked many JW’s the same thing and so far no one has been able to come up with 1..just 1 is all I ask. Please don’t just quote 1 tim 3:1-5 or something like things are really bad etc. When Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD it came true beyond doubt and there is historical evidence to back it up. So can you apologist show me 1 prophecy or prediction the WT has foretold that has come true?
Reply
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:40 pm

@ apologist. Oh yes, one more thing. You can officially count time on me bc I am an “INACTIVE” publisher not having reported Field Service time for over 6 months.
 Rule number “745b2″ in Elders Secret Handbook. Feel free to count time on me.
Reply
 

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